From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 09:32:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19321 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:32:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61DEhC23479; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:14:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61DEfQ13208; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:14:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21504.mail.yahoo.com (web21504.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g61D2rQ10208 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020701130253.78106.qmail@web21504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.1.22.45] by web21504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 14:02:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?marcus=20findlay-arthur?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Dye help UK style Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:02:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO I've got a snafu on my hands and need to dye an outfit with about 15 meters of various fabrics in it. Haven't dyed anything since I was a kid and nothing on this scale :0 Outer layer is 100% cotton. Inner lining is cotton flannel. Lining is silk. Can anyone advise me on how to do this with UK products and a frontload washing machine? Thanks, Marcus/Mangal __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 10:12:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19455 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:12:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61DsRC25306; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61DsQQ24598; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61Df4Q20361 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g61Devt09546; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:40:57 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200207011340.g61Devt09546@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye help UK style From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:40:57 BST Status: RO Marcus Findlay-arthur wrote : > Can anyone advise me on how to do this with UK > products and a frontload washing machine? Teddy undoubtedly could: but he's got a major flood of work at the moment and probably won't be reading his emails for a bit. Can it wait till he recovers? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 10:15:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19462 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:15:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61DvPC25497; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:57:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61DvNQ25560; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61DVMQ17722 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:31:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-120-176.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.120.176]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AHX14416; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:31:11 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <011d01c22104$94e64560$b0784ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye help UK style MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:38:26 +0100 Status: RO >Outer layer is 100% cotton. Inner lining is cotton flannel. Lining is silk. However you dye it if it is made up like this the results will not have one consistant colour Is it 15m to go into your machine ? If so don't take it to a local dyehose unless you are OK about unlevel dyeing. Sorry Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 10:47:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19567 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:47:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61ETnC27576; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:29:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61ETkQ07233; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:29:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blondie.gower.net (blondie.gower.net [205.230.30.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61E9kQ29592 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:09:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gower.net (user-19.annex-03.tyler.tx.gower.net [208.218.191.116]) by blondie.gower.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g61E9h123706 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:09:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from vbetts@gower.net) Message-ID: <3D206256.B2CD8D3D@gower.net> From: Vicki Betts X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Webpage for ACW era Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: vbetts@gower.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:08:22 -0500 Status: RO I would like to invite H-Costume members to take a look at my new webpage--http://www.uttyl.edu/vbetts. So far it includes three main parts--newspaper articles (mostly Southern, searchable either by word or chronologically by title, plus a few subjects pulled together such as "homespun" or "knitted items"), a Godey's index for 1855-1865 (also searchable by word or by particular volume), and a bibliography of books, articles, theses, dissertations, calendars, and CD-ROMS for civilian clothing, 1840-1865, mostly American, all English language. Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net http://www.uttyl.edu/vbetts _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 11:23:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19730 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:23:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61F5lC00677; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61F5iQ22774; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:05:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6168HQ26622 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 00:08:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.153]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020701060812.EWUT15755.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 06:08:12 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020701010926.02e14890@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020629113027.00d80560@pop.directcon.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 01:12:37 -0500 Status: RO Greetings, One of the paintings I noticed that has the most "wench" like look is the Judith with the Head of Holofernes, 1512.http://www.civictrustwales.demon.co.uk/a205/lotto/early_years.html The bodice is cut under the bust and looks a lot like some of the "wench" outfits I've seen. It could be someone saw this and forgot (or didn't know) that one doesn't take religious or allegorical images as "fact." As for when the whole trend started in faires & reenactment? I have no idea. : ) Cheers, Danielle At 11:30 AM 6/29/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I'm trying to trace the history of the "wench" costume meant to represent >16th century lower class women's clothing. I've had good luck finding the >origins of the style, in woodcuts and painting, and there's ample >documentation for late 20th century interpretation thereof. > >What I'm looking for now is some evidence of when the style crystalized >into a conventional "costume". It seems to have been present from the >earliest days of Hollywood, so I'm suspecting I should look earlier, >possibly in the 19th century. Can anyone recommend books, websites, etc, >that might help? > >Margo >"One Tough Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 11:27:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19763 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:27:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61F9hC01095; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:09:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61F9fQ24827; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:09:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61EvDQ18648 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arweb02la (unverified [10.1.201.102]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:53:42 -0700 thread-index: AcIhDxekcjgqWWuKSnObRela2EqnGg== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Dye help UK style From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye help UK style Message-ID: <024301c2210f$17a72050$66c9010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0244_01C220D4.6B484850" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:53:42 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0244_01C220D4.6B484850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have had great success with Dylon dyes for machine - but in order to get a really strong colour you often need more than one pack. These also only work on cellulose fibres - cotton, linen, rayon. Synthetic fibres need another sort of dye altogether, and I don't have any experience of dying with these. Wool I wouldn't dye in the machine. Dylon dyes are readily available in all sorts of places in the UK: haberdashers, hardware shops, some supermarkets, market stalls. Just keep looking. They probably have a website. Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > > From: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk > Sent: 7/1/2002 11:12:57 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Cc: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye help UK style > > Marcus Findlay-arthur wrote : > > Can anyone advise me on how to do this with UK > products and a frontload washing machine? > > Teddy undoubtedly could: but he's got a major flood of work at the moment and probably won't be > reading his emails for a bit. Can it wait till he recovers? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------=_NextPart_000_0244_01C220D4.6B484850 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have had great success with Dylon dyes for machine - but in order to get a really strong colour you often need more than one pack. These also only work on cellulose fibres - cotton, linen, rayon. Synthetic fibres need another sort of dye altogether, and I don't have any experience of dying with these. Wool I wouldn't dye in the machine.

Dylon dyes are readily available in all sorts of places in the UK: haberdashers, hardware shops, some supermarkets, market stalls. Just keep looking. They probably have a website.

Freyalyn


_______________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message----->
>
> From: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk
> Sent: 7/1/2002 11:12:57 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Cc: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye help UK style
>
> Marcus Findlay-arthur wrote :
>
> Can anyone advise me on how to do this with UK
> products and a frontload washing machine?
>
> Teddy undoubtedly could: but he's got a major flood of work at the moment and probably won't be
> reading his emails for a bit. Can it wait till he recovers?
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
------=_NextPart_000_0244_01C220D4.6B484850-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 11:43:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19861 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:43:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61FPaC02525; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61FPQQ03006; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61FJJQ29710 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g61FJCr10674; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 16:19:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200207011519.g61FJCr10674@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye help UK style From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 16:19:12 BST Status: RO Freyalyn wrote : > Dylon dyes are readily available in all sorts of places in the UK: haberdashers, hardware shops, some supermarkets, market stalls. Just keep looking. Woolworths stock them. > They probably have a website. http://www.dylon.co.uk/ And very informative, too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 12:46:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20083 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:46:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61GS9C10045; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61GS1D11170; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61GClD01447 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYK00JMTVPB8P@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:12:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires In-reply-to: <20020629181149.20558.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020701082952.00c4b840@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020628180211.00a6ff00@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 08:33:59 -0700 Status: RO >It is sometimes difficult to be specific when the foreign language vocabulary >is missing :-) >anyway, the loops that you see are actually thread loops, attached to leg-less >glasses. they were like what in germany is called a 'zwicker', glasses that >were pinched onto the bridge of the nose without any earpieces, but some >attached thread loops which were looped around the ears. Helped a little >bit to >keepthem up. >the modern idea of earpieces in the form of 'legs' attached to the actual >'zwicker' glass piece, which can be opened and closed, is mid 18th century. > >I hope my strange use of odd vocabulary makes more sense now... Even the native-English-speaking folks were confusing on this point. So none of the hard side pieces that just go over the ears, only soft ear-loops. So I could take a pair of modern glasses, where the lens-holding front parts were the right shape, take off the hard side-pieces, and put on soft ear-loops instead. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 12:52:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20097 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:52:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61GYgC10726; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61GYfD14801; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61GCmD01452 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYK00JMTVPB8P@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:12:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20020629113027.00d80560@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020701083421.00c49100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 08:59:01 -0700 Status: RO Look into folk costume worn in Europe in the 1800s. Start with that Victorian book by Braun and Schneider (Dover reprinted it as 'Historic Costume in Pictures'). You will find a few late 1700s outfits and many many 1800s outfits that have the same basic bodice-shirt-skirt combination. The German 'dirndl' is an example. Folkwear's ethnic vest pattern shows several more examples. The crystallization you speak of happened in the mid-1800s, along with things like German Nationalism, when industrialization, and cosmopolitan city life, were seen to be melting down (western European) ethnic differences. Many folk costumes were 'revived' at that time, to give the various Europeans a sense of their (nationalistic) roots. Some single example of what the locals used to wear was chosen to represent the way things were, and many of them fossilized into 'Regional Costume' at that point (think what Ren Fair did to the sum total of what people wore in Elizabeth I's reign, and you've got the picture). Grimm's fairy tales were collected, Joan of Arc was canonized, Wagner was writing operas, Neuschwanstein was built, and the Gothic Revival and Pre-Raphaelite movements were active (among other things), because of this same urge. >I'm trying to trace the history of the "wench" costume meant to represent >16th century lower class women's clothing. I've had good luck finding the >origins of the style, in woodcuts and painting, and there's ample >documentation for late 20th century interpretation thereof. > >What I'm looking for now is some evidence of when the style crystalized >into a conventional "costume". It seems to have been present from the >earliest days of Hollywood, so I'm suspecting I should look earlier, >possibly in the 19th century. Can anyone recommend books, websites, etc, >that might help? > >Margo >"One Tough Costumer" > > >See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 12:58:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20107 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:58:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61Ge7C11527; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:40:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61Ge6D17988; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61GCnD01463 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYK00JMTVPB8P@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:12:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Info regarding nun's habits... In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020701090330.00c47570@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:07:45 -0700 Status: RO >The reason I'm >interested in it's construction (as opposed to the spiffy 19th century >veil arrangement) is that it looks darn close to a 16th century >french hood. Nuns' veils were what married women were wearing when the particular order was founded, as re-interpreted over time. So this may well be derived from a 16th century example. >If anyone has any information on where I can find out how this veil >might be constructed (I'm not worried about authenticity at this >point), I'd love to hear it! I saw some nuns in my neighborhood the >other day wearing just such a hood, but I felt it might be >inappropriate to strike up a conversation and ask to see their >headgear inside and out... I encountered a Carmelite, in full dress, in a craft store in California, and did just that. I tried to sound like a student of historical costuming, not just a goggle-eyed tourist. She was very co-operative, and informative. While she didn't remove any garment, she told me names of the various layers, and when her order was founded. Her habit did look vaguely like a married lady of that period. (This was years ago, and I have forgotten all the pertinent information.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 13:33:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20221 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:33:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61HFcC14914; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61HFbD09695; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:15:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61GCnD01474 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYK00JMTVPB8P@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:12:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires In-reply-to: <200207011055.g61AtjqQ029492@grape.dcsi.net.au> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020701090822.00c4ae70@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3D1F24AC.30803@oldwaylane.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:09:20 -0700 Status: RO >But still I love amber it is so pretty and versatile and one can do so >much with it. But it's the wrong colour for some of us to look good in. I own some, of my grandmothers', but I never wear it. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 13:46:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20266 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:46:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61HR3C16121; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61HR2D16056; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g61HBsD07614 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:11:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020701171153.50642.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 18:11:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020701082952.00c4b840@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 18:11:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > Even the native-English-speaking folks were confusing on this point. So > none of the hard side pieces that just go over the ears, only soft > ear-loops. So I could take a pair of modern glasses, where the > lens-holding front parts were the right shape, take off the hard > side-pieces, and put on soft ear-loops instead. You might find though that they will slip terribly because they weren't made to sit on the bridge of the nose. They will probably be too wide there. It's worth a try though. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 13:51:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20307 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:51:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61HWZC16757; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61HWYD19257; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:32:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61HEWD09082 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17P4kw-000NXe-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 18:14:31 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume References: <3.0.6.32.20020629113027.00d80560@pop.directcon.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 23:31:47 +0100 Status: RO Does this book have a design for Edward III and Phillippa of Hainault? I've always loved Queen Victoria's version of this, with a fur-edged sideless surcoat over a crinoline. I'd be tickled if she got it from a book! Jean Robin Netherton wrote > >On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Margo Anderson wrote: > >> What I'm looking for now is some evidence of when the style >> crystalized into a conventional "costume". It seems to have been >> present from the earliest days of Hollywood, so I'm suspecting I >> should look earlier, possibly in the 19th century. Can anyone >> recommend books, websites, etc, that might help? > >For one stop along the path, you might check rare book rooms for a >Victorian book called "Fancy Dresses Described" by Ardern Holt. This first >came out in the late 1870s as a how-to manual for ladies going to costume >balls, which were enormously popular at this time. The copy I examined in >the Newberry Library in Chicago was a fifth edition (1887), so it was >obviously a popular book! That one had some hand-colored plates, though >I've seen cheaper copies that did not. I wouldn't be surprised if you >could find a copy here and there on open shelving in some university >libraries or old city libraries. > >The book included instructions for dressing up as various historical >characters (Queen Elizabeth, Joan of Arc, Mary Queen of Scots), literary >characters, generic occupational types, birds, plants, insects, and even >inanimate objects (e.g. you become the allegory of a tea set or a deck of >cards). These various costumes were apparently recognizable enough to have >standard treatments, which were codified in the book. I wouldn't be >surprised if there's some equivalent to your "wench" in there, perhaps >under "tavern maid" or something. > >The costumes aren't at all historically accurate, though the author swears >for the book's "correctness of descriptions and accuracy of details." >They're essentially Victorian dresses jazzed up with details that evoke >the Victorian idea of a particular period or place. The "medieval" >description includes things like "pink gauze" and a "short skirt of >striped red and white silk." For one 16th-century character, the author >points out that the description is painstakingly based on a historical >painting -- but the painting in question is from 1832! > >Which brings me to another place to look: Victorian historical paintings. >This is *before* the pre-Raphaelites. Medieval and Renaissance images were >very popular painting at this time, and certain "looks" were formalized in >the genre. You'll find a few such paintings reproduced in "The Return to >Camelot," a history of the Victorian British love affair with the >medieval; you may not find a "wench," but you'll get the names of some >painters whose works may be worth tracking down. > >Another place to look is illustrated children's books from this period. >Certain fairy-tale "types," including the lower-class attractive female, >were standardized in book illustration long before Hollywood. > >--Robin > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 1 14:38:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20504 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:38:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g61IKiC21365; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61IKgD15827; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:20:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61I64D08262 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:06:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31354 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:29:45 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:29:45 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Jean Waddie wrote: > Does this book have a design for Edward III and Phillippa of Hainault? > I've always loved Queen Victoria's version of this, with a fur-edged > sideless surcoat over a crinoline. I'd be tickled if she got it from > a book! I don't know if there's something in the book for these monarchs -- very possibly there is. But that particular dress was designed for Queen Victoria, at her request, for her Plantagenet ball of 1842, more than 30 years before "Fancy Dresses Described" was published. Victoria's costume designer, James Robinson Planche, was a theater designer and heraldic scholar; he wrote entertainments and produced pageants, and considered himself an antiquarian as well. (His autobiography, which runs to multiple volumes, makes clear he did not underestimate his own brilliance.) Planche is a familiar enough name to costumers because he established himself as the foremost British costume expert of the 19th century. In 1834, he published a "new and improved" (his words) edition of Strutt's landmark costume history of 1796. (My own opinion: It was NOT an improvement.) Planche's own costume book came out in 1847, with a new edition in 1881. I occasionally find it, or his "Cyclopedia of Costume," on open shelves at old libraries. Planche is not a particularly good source for medieval costume, as he tended to make up information to fill in gaps in the evidence. (Unfortunately many of his assumptions and inventions persist even today in costume books.) But he is a very good source for the Victorian interpretation of medieval costume, since his work defined much of the movement. I believe you can see a portrait of Victoria and Albert in Planche's Plantaganet costumes, as well as others of Planche's costume designs for the Plantaganet ball, in "The Return to Camelot" by Girourard. (The development of costume scholarship is one of my favorite research areas.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:02:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08200 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:02:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HhrC23412; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:43:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HhlD23251; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61GCoD01484 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:12:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYK00JMTVPB8P@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:12:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye help UK style In-reply-to: <20020701130253.78106.qmail@web21504.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020701090939.00c4b500@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:10:14 -0700 Status: RO >I've got a snafu on my hands and need to dye an outfit >with about 15 meters of various fabrics in it. >Haven't dyed anything since I was a kid and nothing on >this scale :0 > >Outer layer is 100% cotton. >Inner lining is cotton flannel. >Lining is silk. > >Can anyone advise me on how to do this with UK >products and a frontload washing machine? Dylon. I wish I could still get it here in California. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:11:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08362 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:11:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HkVC23811; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HkMD25427; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61GflD18965 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:41:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LalahTT@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.158.1031a929 (4116) for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:41:38 -0400 (EDT) From: LalahTT@aol.com Message-ID: <158.1031a929.2a51e042@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_158.1031a929.2a51e042_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:41:38 EDT Status: RO --part1_158.1031a929.2a51e042_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/02 6:13:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, judymitch@oldwaylane.net writes: > > I'm still wondering how easy it would be/would have been to > slice the amber thin enough to look through As an experienced amateur lapidary, I can tell you that amber is so soft it can be worked with woodworking tools. It isn't brittle and there is no reason it couldn't be sliced thin if that is what you want and can find a piece large enough. However, it would be hard to find a piece clear enough as it is filled with bits and pieces of debris and bubbles. The slicing would be easy, but the polishing it would be a pain -- possible, but not fun. Just polishing an amber cab is a challenge if you try to use regular lapidary equipment. It just wants to melt. Lalah Never Give up, Never Surrender, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Looking for a great gift? Check out Beary Classy Bears at http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html --part1_158.1031a929.2a51e042_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/02 6:13:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, judymitch@oldwaylane.net writes:

   I'm still wondering how easy it would be/would have been to
slice the amber thin enough to look through
      As an experienced amateur lapidary, I can tell you that amber is so soft it can be worked with woodworking tools.  It isn't brittle and there is no reason it couldn't be sliced thin if that is what you want and can find a piece large enough.  However, it would be hard to find a piece clear enough as it is filled with bits and pieces of debris and bubbles.  The slicing would be easy, but the polishing it would be a pain -- possible, but not fun.  Just polishing an amber cab is a challenge if you try to use regular lapidary equipment.  It just wants to melt.

Lalah
Never Give up, Never Surrender,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Looking for a great gift?  Check out Beary Classy Bears at
http://hometown.aol.com/bearyclassybears/myhomepage/sale.html

--part1_158.1031a929.2a51e042_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:12:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08386 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:12:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HokC24558; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HoVD28988; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61JK5D17867 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303b ([12.238.186.49]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020701191959.TYRV15755.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@c59303b> for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 19:19:59 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c22133$c550c9d0$31baee0c@c59303b> From: "chiara" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:12:18 -0500 Status: RO Not to mention that all his books cost over 500.00 if you can even find a copy! There used to be a bookseller offering to see it to me for over a year swearing that it had great glove documentation in it. Too much money for me to spend and cannot justify. Robin, can you look at the book again and tell if it has anything about gloves? It was perpetually out here in the Collin County library system and now it is totally off the lists. :( Ches ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume ---------------snip---------------------- > > costume designer, James Robinson Planche, was a theater > designer and heraldic scholar; he wrote entertainments and produced > pageants, and considered himself an antiquarian as well. (His > autobiography, which runs to multiple volumes, makes clear he did not > underestimate his own brilliance.) Planche is a familiar enough name to > costumers because he established himself as the foremost British costume > expert of the 19th century. In 1834, he published a "new and improved" > (his words) edition of Strutt's landmark costume history of 1796. (My own > opinion: It was NOT an improvement.) Planche's own costume book came out > in 1847, with a new edition in 1881. I occasionally find it, or his > "Cyclopedia of Costume," on open shelves at old libraries. > > Planche is not a particularly good source for medieval costume, as he > tended to make up information to fill in gaps in the evidence. > (Unfortunately many of his assumptions and inventions persist even today > in costume books.) But he is a very good source for the Victorian > interpretation of medieval costume, since his work defined much of the > movement. > > I believe you can see a portrait of Victoria and Albert in Planche's > Plantaganet costumes, as well as others of Planche's costume designs for > the Plantaganet ball, in "The Return to Camelot" by Girourard. > > (The development of costume scholarship is one of my favorite research > areas.) > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:12:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08390 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:12:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HqJC24795; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Hp7D29531; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61LV7D03164 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 15:31:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.25.29e20c25 (3312) for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:30:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <25.29e20c25.2a522411@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] (h-cost): good pictures of extant garments... TIP! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_25.29e20c25.2a522411_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:30:57 EDT Status: RO --part1_25.29e20c25.2a522411_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/21/02 7:32:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sherylnd@sound.net writes: > I actually wrote an article on Inter Library Loan services for > Mary Denise Smith's "Costume & Dressmaker" magazine a few > years back. Until I started doing the research for it, I had no > idea how much money my own library spent on shipping costs > to send books out around the country. And salaries for > three full-time people to run it. All for a free service. All so that our > patrons can get the books that we don't have here. > Sheryl, Do you have a copy of that article you wrote? I would love to read it. Kit --part1_25.29e20c25.2a522411_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/21/02 7:32:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sherylnd@sound.net writes:


I actually wrote an article on Inter Library Loan services for
Mary Denise Smith's "Costume & Dressmaker" magazine a few
years back. Until I started doing the research for it, I had no
idea how much money my own library spent on shipping costs
to send books out around the country. And salaries for
three full-time people to run it. All for a free service. All so that our
patrons can get the books that we don't have here.


Sheryl,

Do you have a copy of that article you wrote?  I would love to read it.

Kit
--part1_25.29e20c25.2a522411_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:12:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08392 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:12:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63Hq0C24773; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:53:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HosD29307; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f189.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.189]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61KHKD19760 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:17:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:17:14 -0700 Received: from 207.137.181.62 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 20:17:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.137.181.62] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jul 2002 20:17:14.0593 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A2BBD10:01C2213C] Subject: [h-cost] Olde Englysh receipts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 13:17:14 -0700 Status: RO This isn't about costume directly but it is about historical food. And what's a historical feast without historic costume, I ask you! (A naked lunch (but that's another story.)) This exciting article in the Manchester Guardian from Thursday, passed along on another list: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-1838714,00.html Gee, I wonder if we know any English librarians who could get close to this... ;-) MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:27:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08527 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:27:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HohC24539; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HoRD28936; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61J7DD10744 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip59.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.59] (may be forged)) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g61J7A525603 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:07:10 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume Message-ID: <3D2047DF.11268.F390097@localhost> Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:15:27 -0700 Status: RO > Planche is not a particularly good source for medieval costume, as he > tended to make up information to fill in gaps in the evidence. > (Unfortunately many of his assumptions and inventions persist even > today in costume books.) But he is a very good source for the > Victorian interpretation of medieval costume, since his work defined > much of the movement. Amen to that. Same with Braun and Schneider, Racinet and that ilk. Another one who had a tendency to "fill in the gaps" is Diderot. While he has some good stuff for the 18th Century (when he wrote *his* encyclopedia), the earlier periods are pretty scary. Yet, like Planche, his inventions and assumptions are quoted endlessly in costume books. Norris quotes both of them extensively. One of the things that the lady who I was apprenticed to did for me is to have me read (beginning to end, not just my favorite time period) a long list of "standard" costume books. (Kelly & Schwabe, Norris, Davenport, Boucher, Kohler, von Boehn, etc. It was a list of over 20 authors, some of which have several books, like Norris and von Boehn.) It really gave me an interesting perspective on costuming books. It also made me learn to question almost everything I find written as being "the way" to make something. You start seeing (especially if you know the date the book was written) how the costumers of the time saw things and how much gets crystallized by being endlessly quoted (even when very much wrong.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:27:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08531 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:27:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HqgC24832; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HpRD29856; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61NqgD28702 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYL009MYGZTCC@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:52:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires In-reply-to: <20020701171153.50642.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020701163440.00c84dc0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020701082952.00c4b840@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:52:37 -0700 Status: RO > > Even the native-English-speaking folks were confusing on this point. So > > none of the hard side pieces that just go over the ears, only soft > > ear-loops. So I could take a pair of modern glasses, where the > > lens-holding front parts were the right shape, take off the hard > > side-pieces, and put on soft ear-loops instead. > >You might find though that they will slip terribly because they weren't >made to >sit on the bridge of the nose. They will probably be too wide there. It's >worth >a try though. Once I figured out that the hard side-pieces could go, I realized that any other aspect of the frames could be modified too. So if they refused to seat snugly on my nose, I could reshape the nose pads till they did, using Fimo, or that two-part Epoxy mending putty sold to handyman-plumbers. A tiny pair of felt pads would keep all the modeling stuff away from my skin, in case I had a chemical reaction to it. (Thrift stores are a good source of cheap frames, unless your eye doctor says he/she can't fit lenses to them.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:30:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08550 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:30:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63ICJC27926; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:12:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HpZD29995; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g620JcD07801 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 18:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from genteelarts (user192.net103.pa.sprint-hsd.net [65.164.19.192]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA20524 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 19:19:32 -0500 From: "cschmitt@genteelarts" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Conference on Mid-Nineteenth Century Clothing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 20:19:29 -0400 Status: RO Those of you interested in mid-nineteenth century clothing and culture might be interested in this information. The information is being posted to several lists; my apologies if you receive multiple copies. The Ninth Annual Ladies of the 1860s Conference will be held on March 7-9, 2003 in Harrisburg, PA. The conference offers presentations on a variety of topics relating to the clothing and culture of the mid-nineteenth century. The program also includes pre-conference seminars (both hands-on and lecture/demonstration), a juried vendor area, continually changing displays of original garments, undergarments, accessories, jewelry and other items of material culture, a competition for the best reproduction of a period bonnet, and a juried vendor area. The 2003 conference will also include presentations and workshops on men’s clothing, and special packages for gentlemen and junior members are available. Complete details including descriptions of the presentations and workshops, hotel information, and registration fees can be found at our web site www.genteelarts.com Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:30:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08551 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:30:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HrGC24888; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HpWD29939; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx12.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g62091D04449 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 18:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx12.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 39052115 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 20:08:36 -0400 Message-ID: <00af01c2215c$98027180$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] respectable woman of Geneva Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 19:08:27 -0500 Status: RO In my Patterns of Fashion (1560 - 1620) on page 6 there is a picture of a "respectable woman of Geneva" from Habitus Praecipuorum Propulorum by Hans Weigel & Jost Amman. Does anyone know of a better picture? I cannot find any online, but was hoping someone else might have found one. I am especially interested in her headwear, if anyone can make that out. Thanks! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:32:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08563 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:32:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HobC24517; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:50:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HoOD28887; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:50:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5P5tQE24079 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:55:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020625055521.GXWE15755.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 05:55:21 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c21c0c$e3457340$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Bath Museum of Costume - revamped web site Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:55:19 -0700 Status: RO The Museum of Costume in Bath has revamped their website -- better design, and some nicer photos of some of their collection: http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/ I stumbled across "The Costume Drama Game" on their site, which is one of those "dress the mannequin in the appropriate historical clothing" Java games... It has some REALLY weird clothes for each period -- the 1790's figure is supposed to wear a robe a la francaise and really weird hat, the 1830's figure ends up being "correctly" dressed in something that looks way more 1890's to me, and I have NO IDEA what's going on with the 1800 figure's dress (looks 1830's to me!). Anway, check it out. It's odd. The direct URL for the game is: http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/htmlContent/game.htm - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:34:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08577 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:34:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HoKC24455; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HoGD28765; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.siscom.net (1012@shell.siscom.net [209.251.2.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LERYq26992 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:27:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (drea@localhost) by shell.siscom.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA44417 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:27:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from drea@nospam) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan Costuming Page has moved Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Guys, long time no chat. Just wanted to drop you a line--my Elizabethan Costuming page has moved, from http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets to the much more mnemonic location of http://costume.dm.net/ . This new site is much, much larger. It veritably echos. So I'm extending an offer: if anyone on the lst has a costume-related paper, article, or currently homeless web article, drop me a line. I know there are many of you out there with great papers & articles on a variety of costume topics, but who don't have web page access or the HTML savvy to convert your articles from Word format into a web-viewable one. And there are others, I'm sure, who are sick and tired of hosting their articles on geocities, tripod, or other pop-up-window type sites. Enjoy the new site and I hope to be back on the list soon, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:36:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08585 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:36:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63IBBC27793; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HpdD00144; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:51:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g621U7D28689 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 19:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2126.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.126]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07504 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 21:30:03 -0400 Message-ID: <3D2100BF.BDFD83E2@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires References: <20020701171153.50642.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 21:24:15 -0400 Status: RO Hi. Let me second Nicole on this point here. I have never seen evidence of any sort of nose pads the like of which we have on modern glasses. All of the illos and all of the extant glasses seem to indicate the glasses sitting on the bridge of the nose, and often slipping down to the bulbous point of the nose where the nostrils flare out. If you are fortunate in this case, and you have a flatter, wider nose, you might be able to find something for you to wear. In addition, all of the glasses I have seen prior to the 18th Cent. are round. The ear cords will probably help in adjusting the glasses on the bridge of the nose, but the angle of the lenses and, consequently, the placement of the focal center of the lens in front of the center of the eye will alter (this is another reason to disprove the thought that myopia was being corrected at that early date). Good Luck with your reproductions, though. Every experiment, successful or failed, brings us closer to understanding the past. Mike T. > > > You might find though that they will slip terribly because they weren't made to > sit on the bridge of the nose. They will probably be too wide there. It's worth > a try though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:38:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08594 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:38:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63I9uC27626; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HsYD02978; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:54:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6304RD05689 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 18:04:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.153]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020703000422.NMOW24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 00:04:22 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020702190744.02cddeb0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020629113027.00d80560@pop.directcon.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] aurora bleacheries - help Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:08:58 -0500 Status: RO Greetings, Does anyone know the current location of the Aurora Bleacheries (I believe they went through a name change awhile back as well)? Would they be open on Monday and how do I get there from I94? : ) Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:40:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08634 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:40:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63ICSC27957; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:12:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HmwD27637; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:48:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61I1rD05749 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:01:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.6] (as-5-20.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.6]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g61I1pM01561 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D1F24AC.30803@oldwaylane.net> References: <3D1F24AC.30803@oldwaylane.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:52:37 -0700 Status: RO At 11:33 AM -0400 6/30/02, Judy Mitchell wrote: >Hi Parsla- >>Certainly, it's said that Viking women displayed their wealth by >>all the amber they wore, et cetera, et cetera, > yeah, I've seen that sometimes in the generic books... but >you know, of all the museums that I've been to (and most in >Denmark), while there are some amber displayed the majority of the >beads are glass. Maybe that has to do with the amazingly high >quality of the Danish bead makers, but there was more glass than >amber in Norway too, and the same that I've seen in the Gotland >pictures that have been on the web. So I really wonder about those >statements about wearing all the amber. Besides if wearing the amber >was "displaying their wealth" then it stands to reason that amber >was not considered so cheap. It sure did well on the trade routes. My experience has been similar to yours. If you look at Viking-era beads in terms of grave-by-grave inventories, you get a _much_ different picture of what people were wearing than what many people have adopted as the "Viking look". Often its 50-80% monochrome glass, with only a handful of special shapes, designs, and materials. And to the best of my recollection, _every_ amber bead I've seen in an archaeological context has been shaped to a highly symmetric and polished form (except for the few carved to shape). The notion of wearing twenty strands of amber-only in roughly tumbled shapes (which is what I normally see on the "display your amber wealth" people around here) doesn't really match the historic evidence that I'm aware of. It can be easy to get a mistaken impression from book and museum displays that single out the "nice" beads, or group bead displays by type rather than by site. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:41:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08643 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:41:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63IBaC27828; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HnGD27862; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61IfcD26809 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g61IfaJU027410 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:41:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume In-Reply-To: <3D1E7DE4.41FFCBB1@dandy.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Nah, it's just good corsetry ;D -- M On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, leigh tartaglio wrote: > Wow, those ladies have some big ol' jugs!!! (Ducking feebly at the barrage sure to > come...) Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:41:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08647 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:41:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63HoTC24490; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:50:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HoKD28833; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5LJIeq26062 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:18:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.52.227.157] ([24.52.227.157]) by smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 smtprelay7 Dec 7 2001 09:58:59) with ESMTP id GY2LMY00.DUS for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:18:34 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: rob and laurie gage To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] my phoenix textile order... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:18:34 -0400 Status: RO hi all! i just received my first phoenix textiles order, and i'm digging it! prompt, pleasant and timely. yay! the fabric: forest green cotton velveteen-short nap, nice sheen light-weight red linen-light and crisp, *very* red purple "raw" silk-actually a matka. nice medium purple w/tight weave royal gold dupione-mmmmm, pretty! last, but not least... burgundy sheer linen/metal blend (90/10%)-beautiful fabric!!! deep color, semi-sheer, linen weft and metal warp. very crisp, but not hard. the warp feels more like a fine nylon thread than metal. if you bend it it doesn't stay bent (ie: not like metal edged ribbon). i have just over 3ydsX60". question" what the heck do i do w/it? i thought greek (doric style chiton), cotehardie (i'm teetering on the brink of ordering 3 more yards) or early 16th c. italien ren. please keep in mind that it is a bit sheer (not like "oh mi gawd, she's nekkid), it will need to be lined or layered. suggestions, comments and questions welcomed! laurie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:42:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08656 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:42:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63I9vC27632; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Hq5D00660; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g627KRD29273 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 01:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A4B877C0150; Tue, 02 Jul 2002 02:22:32 -0500 Message-ID: <022601c22198$5a897a60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Cyber Cindy Again!!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 03:16:15 -0400 Status: RO You all won't believe this! I am in shock... I got this news last night about my next ball gown!!! Cyber Cinderella goes to the Ball AGAIN!!! Okay for those who don't know... I am also known as Cyber Cinderella! Don't believe me... go read my Cyber Cinderella story at http://www.costumegallery.com/Cyber/Cindy.htm Make sure to read the whole story to see the mansion where the ball was held! In 1998, I was invited to a Ball at one of my client's home... a mansion! I was so panicked about what to wear... I met a designer on the web and she loaned me a $10,000 gown to wear to the Ball. I wrote about the whole event on the web... then I became known Cyber Cindy. (for those of you who know all of this... hang in there... you won't believe this...) I receive so much wonderful email from moms about this story. Then I was invited to my client's Ball again in 2000. This ball was even more spectacular!!! I got to work with the designer David Emanuel personally. He was the designer for Princess Diana's wedding gown. I purchased my gown this time, an antique late 1950s bouffant debutante gown... I wore a huge hoop with it. I felt like a Princess floating around the room. Now we are about 6 weeks before my client's next Balls.... she is going to have two balls this year. One is the Twilight Ball on Aug. 17, the other is the Red Cross Ball on Aug. 19. So I need to have two Cyber Cindy gowns!!! It has happened again!!! Just like the first ball. Bill, our new instructor, the NYC couture designer, is going to design me a big bouffant 1950-ish ball gown to wear to the Ball. I will be his walking billboard. See the people at the Ball are his type of clientele. People always stop me and ask about my gowns, so Bill gets advertising. Now, this is where it gets to be fun for you.... he is going to teach a class at the Classroom on how to make my Cyber Cinderella gown! He will be documenting making my gown step-by-step! Now for the Red Cross Ball... Cyber Cindy can't wear the same dress for two nights! A lot of the same people will be there at both Balls. Since I am known for what I will be wearing... Cyber Cindy will be going in a 1920s gown. I got this pattern from Kim Grant, our other new instructor's website... http://www.silkpoppy.com/patternframe.htm and look at pattern Mc5941. That will be my Red Cross gown. I can wear handkerchief hems really well... so this should be fun! Kim graded the pattern to my size. I will be making this gown... start praying... I haven't sewn in 5 years. I will be starting on it next week. Because the Ball is for the Red Cross, all the ladies are wear red gowns. BTW, my clients who own the Titanic film costumes, will be coming as my guests to the Red Cross Ball. I can't wait to see what she is wearing. They are both so excited! I just can't tell you how much of a dream all of this seems. Who would have ever thought a mom of six kids would get to go to beautiful Balls! It still all seems like a dream. Luckily, I have a video tape of the last Ball... so I can pop it in the VCR and remember it all while sitting my t-shirt and shorts!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:43:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08664 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:43:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63IBRC27814; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63HswD03335; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:54:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f51.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.51]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6367vD10248 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 00:07:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:07:51 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Jul 2002 06:07:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2002 06:07:51.0859 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6D72830:01C22257] Subject: [h-cost] Movie: "Druids" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 23:07:51 -0700 Status: RO Oh oh oh, I am at this very momemt hurting myself for some undesignated sins, apparently, by watching a film called "Druids" with Christopher Lambert and Klaus Maria Brandauer, et al. To make it worth my while I will ask of the assembled h-costume multitude... is there any costume virtue--or any other virtue--in this film at all? Aside from the brief glorious appearance of Max vonSydow,anyway? Oh the pain, the pain! MaggiRos ~noting the remarkably few horned helmets _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:43:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08670 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:43:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63IAKC27685; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Hn2D27688; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g61I1uD05765 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.6] (as-5-20.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.6]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g61I1sM01616 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie title Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:57:04 -0700 Status: RO >I can't remember which list it was that someone asked about a movie >that might be called something like "Thee, Hannah" so I'm just going >to start with this one :) Google is a wonderful thing (but with a 2000 pub date for the book, it seems unlikely to have produced a movie already): Thee Hannah! by Marguerite de Angeli ISBN none, 99 pages, $15.99 Availability: Usually Ships in 24 hours A beautifully illustrated children's book by Newbery Medal winner Marguerite de Angeli, also winner of two Caldecott Honor Awards, the Louis Carroll Shelf Award, and the Regina Medal. Hannah Severns was approaching ninety when she and the author, then herself a child, first became acquainted. As their friendship grew, the stories of her childhood became the basis for this book, and for other stories by the author. Publisher: Herald Press Published Date: 2000 Binding: Trade Paper -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 14:54:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08887 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:53:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63IBIC27804; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:11:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Hr7D01566; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g62FSCD05221 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:28:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.16] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GYM0043NO4VAF@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@net.indra.com; Tue, 02 Jul 2002 11:24:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Thanks for the forwarding on dye help Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 11:25:29 -0400 Status: RO Marcus asked me to post the following as Yahoo is not working well. -Linda K-S >Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:20:36 +0000 >From: marcus findlay-arthur >Subject: Thanks for the forwarding on dye help > >1.I can wait a while. >2.Thanks for all the input - will be looking over the next week for >stuff anyway. > >Ta & loads of love, > >M. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 15:25:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09333 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:25:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63J73C03487; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63J71D16131; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63J6wD16091 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:06:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.125] (pm4-125.eos.net [205.133.149.125]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21076 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:06:55 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200207031801.g63I1CD08144@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: druids Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:58:20 -0400 Status: RO Actually, I enjoyed this film in a lackadaisical sort of way. The script was awful, and why anyone hires Christopher Lambert for anything is beyond me. The man has only one expression! I just wrote a review of it for our local SCA publication, so it's still fresh in my mind. I don't think the costumes are particularly accurate, but they are an attempt and they win in my book because at least they are all THE SAME attempt. I only watched it once, so I may be wrong, but I don't recall any bit players with clothes from different eras. The Roman army is all dressed alike, although apparently a few centuries off, but again at least it's all the same era. And I quite enjoyed the sets and props, which seemed to me to be an attempt at the correct period. The main problems with the movie were, again, the terrible script and the terrible lead actor. Perhaps this is a cultural thing -- it is a French movie, so maybe the French are not all that concerned with things like good endings and maintaining continuity. There is a very funny (in the sense of incongruous) topless scene that seems very French to me. BTW, the movie was originally called "Vercingetorix," and for those who haven't seen it, that's just what it was -- the story of Vercingetorix, the famous chief of the Gauls defeated by Julius Caesar. Apparently they thought anyone outside of France would be more likely to go see a movie called "Druids," although the Druids are barely in it. It seems to have been intended to be the French "Braveheart," but without the "triumph of the spirit" part. Poor old Vercingetorix takes a pretty dim view of things right from the start! If anyone wants a copy of the review, I'll be happy to send it along. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 16:09:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09614 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:09:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63Jq2C07442; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Jq0D09858; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f71.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63JpMD09507 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:51:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:51:17 -0700 Received: from 207.137.181.62 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Jul 2002 19:51:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.137.181.62] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2002 19:51:17.0442 (UTC) FILETIME=[FEDCDA20:01C222CA] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 12:51:17 -0700 Status: RO Back in the misty reaches of time when I was editing Tournaments Illuminated for the SCA, I ran an article (which eventually into the Known World Handbook, 2nd ed) called "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers" which was both hysterical and very very useful. It takes up the whole issue of costume lore getting handed down, errors and all, both orally and in costume books. It especially focusses on how redrawings of original artworks shift and change the evidence, until redrawings of redrawings take on the appearance of authority, which can be hell to un-do. I believe the authors used to be on this list, but don't know if either of them still is. Anyway, if you can find a copy, it should be one of the things every costume maven makes their 'prentices anbd acolytes memorize! MaggiRos >From: kat@grendal.rain.com >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume >Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:15:27 -0700 > > > > Planche is not a particularly good source for medieval costume, as he > > tended to make up information to fill in gaps in the evidence. > > (Unfortunately many of his assumptions and inventions persist even > > today in costume books.) But he is a very good source for the > > Victorian interpretation of medieval costume, since his work defined > > much of the movement. > >Amen to that. Same with Braun and Schneider, Racinet and that >ilk. > >Another one who had a tendency to "fill in the gaps" is Diderot. >While he has some good stuff for the 18th Century (when he wrote >*his* encyclopedia), the earlier periods are pretty scary. Yet, like >Planche, his inventions and assumptions are quoted endlessly in >costume books. > >Norris quotes both of them extensively. One of the things that the >lady who I was apprenticed to did for me is to have me read >(beginning to end, not just my favorite time period) a long list of >"standard" costume books. (Kelly & Schwabe, Norris, Davenport, >Boucher, Kohler, von Boehn, etc. It was a list of over 20 authors, >some of which have several books, like Norris and von Boehn.) It >really gave me an interesting perspective on costuming books. It >also made me learn to question almost everything I find written as >being "the way" to make something. You start seeing (especially if >you know the date the book was written) how the costumers of the >time saw things and how much gets crystallized by being >endlessly quoted (even when very much wrong.) > > >Kat > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 16:34:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09702 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:34:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63KG2C09717; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63KG0D09581; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63KFGD09148 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:15:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p184.directcon.net [209.233.107.184]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g63KEp7o025462; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:14:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020703131841.00d9bec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:18:41 -0700 Status: RO At 12:51 PM 07/03/2002 -0700, Maggie Secara wrote: >Back in the misty reaches of time when I was editing Tournaments Illuminated >for the SCA, I ran an article (which eventually into the Known World >Handbook, 2nd ed) called "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers" which >was both hysterical and very very useful. I believe it was reprinted in the Knowne World Handbook. The second edition, I think...whichever one it was that was released around AS XX. Sorry I can't be more specific, but my ex-husband kept our copy. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 16:35:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09713 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:35:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63KGiC09828; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:16:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63KGID09845; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:16:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f11.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63KFoD09461 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:15:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:15:44 -0700 Received: from 207.137.181.62 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Jul 2002 20:15:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.137.181.62] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: druids Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2002 20:15:44.0874 (UTC) FILETIME=[698534A0:01C222CE] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:15:44 -0700 Status: RO Well with all that in mind, maybe I'll wait for a Saturday afternoon and put it on when my husband is at home. Some movies are just made for Saturday matinees. The topless scene WAS funny. It had a certain campfollower appeal :) Thanks for the input, Gail! MaggiRos Q: How do you capture a campfollower? A: Hide in the bushes and make a noise like a gold chain. >From: Gail & Scott Finke >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: [h-cost] Re: druids >Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:58:20 -0400 > > > >Actually, I enjoyed this film in a lackadaisical sort of way. The script >was >awful, and why anyone hires Christopher Lambert for anything is beyond me. >The man has only one expression! I just wrote a review of it for our local >SCA publication, so it's still fresh in my mind. I don't think the costumes >are particularly accurate, but they are an attempt and they win in my book >because at least they are all THE SAME attempt. I only watched it once, so >I >may be wrong, but I don't recall any bit players with clothes from >different >eras. The Roman army is all dressed alike, although apparently a few >centuries off, but again at least it's all the same era. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 16:47:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09779 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:47:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63KU9C11294; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63KU8D17949; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f77.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.77]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63KTmD17744 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:29:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:29:42 -0700 Received: from 207.137.181.62 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Jul 2002 20:29:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.137.181.62] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2002 20:29:42.0717 (UTC) FILETIME=[5CE9E6D0:01C222D0] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:29:42 -0700 Status: RO I've still got mine. :-) I think it's still available from the SCA, although I can't find it anywhere on the www.sca.org website. However, a 3rd edition is, I believe, in the works and I have no idea if the article will be included. MaggiRos >From: Margo Anderson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume >Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:18:41 -0700 > >At 12:51 PM 07/03/2002 -0700, Maggie Secara wrote: > >Back in the misty reaches of time when I was editing Tournaments >Illuminated > >for the SCA, I ran an article (which eventually into the Known World > >Handbook, 2nd ed) called "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers" >which > >was both hysterical and very very useful. > >I believe it was reprinted in the Knowne World Handbook. The second >edition, I think...whichever one it was that was released around AS XX. >Sorry I can't be more specific, but my ex-husband kept our copy. > >Margo >"One Tough Costumer" > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 17:14:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09998 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:14:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63Kv2C13905; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Kv1D11726; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63KuSD11449 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:56:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([62.255.179.49]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020703205627.NQET295.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:56:27 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Olde Englysh receipts Message-ID: <3D237308.7040.1AE4DC6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:56:24 +0100 Status: RO On 1 Jul 2002 at 13:17, Maggie Secara wrote: > > This isn't about costume directly but it is about historical food. And > what's a historical feast without historic costume, I ask you! (A naked > lunch (but that's another story.)) This exciting article in the Manchester > Guardian from Thursday, passed along on another list: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-1838714,00.html > > Gee, I wonder if we know any English librarians who could get close to > this... ;-) Thanks: will pass on to some cooking friends and lists. I note in passing that while this may well be the earliest *printed* English cookery book, it's isn't the earliest English cookery book by any means. Not even close. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 17:15:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10006 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:15:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63Kw2C14014; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Kw1D12287; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63KvID11872 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 39jz301 (dhcp065-024-177-132.columbus.rr.com [65.24.177.132]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g63KvGh15212 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <015c01c222d4$664f9d60$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:58:29 -0400 Status: RO Greetings-- > I've still got mine. :-) I think it's still available from the SCA, > although I can't find it anywhere on the www.sca.org website. However, a > 3rd edition is, I believe, in the works and I have no idea if the article > will be included. If it's not, I think a lot of people will be upset. That's one of those "classic" articles. The 2nd edition is still available--go to http://www.sca.org/members/marketplace.html and look at the pdf order form. It's several pages in, past the Compleat Anachronist listings. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 17:17:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10011 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:16:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63Kx1C14086; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Kx1D12869; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Kw6D12342 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AA77910F4F8 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012d01c222d4$46a031f0$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Costuming Page has moved MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:57:18 -0400 Status: RO Drea Your website is my bible. I think I had it bookmarked the day after it moved! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 10:27 AM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan Costuming Page has moved > Guys, > > long time no chat. Just wanted to drop you a line--my Elizabethan > Costuming page has moved, from http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets to the > much more mnemonic location of http://costume.dm.net/ . > > This new site is much, much larger. It veritably echos. > > So I'm extending an offer: if anyone on the lst has a costume-related > paper, article, or currently homeless web article, drop me a line. I know > there are many of you out there with great papers & articles on a variety > of costume topics, but who don't have web page access or the HTML savvy > to convert your articles from Word format into a web-viewable one. And > there are others, I'm sure, who are sick and tired of hosting their > articles on geocities, tripod, or other pop-up-window type sites. > > Enjoy the new site and I hope to be back on the list soon, > > Drea > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 17:17:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10016 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:17:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63Kx5C14093; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:59:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Kx4D12899; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f217.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.217]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63KwPD12536 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:58:19 -0700 Received: from 141.213.6.15 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Jul 2002 20:58:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [141.213.6.15] From: "Parsla Liepa" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2002 20:58:19.0632 (UTC) FILETIME=[5C465700:01C222D4] Subject: [h-cost] Amber (was Re: historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: pliepa@deepthought.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 16:58:19 -0400 Status: RO (much snippage about how chunky, unpolished amber seems to be incorrect for "Viking period"...) >>their wealth" then it stands to reason that amber was not considered so >>cheap. It sure did well on the trade routes. I wonder if this is because amber is/was so common? You know--I grew a lot of tomatoes, so I'm sick of tomatoes, and you grew a lot of zucchini, so you're sick of zucchini--so we trade and we're both happy. Am I just making things up when I say that amber was more common "then" than it is now? This is a weird reason, I know, but the sea floor around Birka was rising in Viking period. Birka was actually abandoned partly because of that (and the waterways on either side filled up with silt and it was harder to get to). The sea floor had previously been forest, which is why there is amber there to wash up on shore in the first place..... I'm guessing that as the sea floor rose, the amber was more likely to be found or washed free. But then again, this could just be crap.... Parsla -- Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 17:21:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10031 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:21:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63L42C14521; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63L40D15966; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63L3LD15600 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:03:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D413410F942 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <016901c222d4$f4d47290$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Conference on Mid-Nineteenth Century Clothing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:02:10 -0400 Status: RO Since I live about twenty minutes from Harrisburg, I am SO there! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "cschmitt@genteelarts" To: Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 8:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] Conference on Mid-Nineteenth Century Clothing > Those of you interested in mid-nineteenth century clothing and culture might > be interested in this information. The information is being posted to > several lists; my apologies if you receive multiple copies. > > The Ninth Annual Ladies of the 1860s Conference will be held on March 7-9, > 2003 in Harrisburg, PA. The conference offers presentations on a variety of > topics relating to the clothing and culture of the mid-nineteenth century. > The program also includes pre-conference seminars (both hands-on and > lecture/demonstration), a juried vendor area, continually changing displays > of original garments, undergarments, accessories, jewelry and other items of > material culture, a competition for the best reproduction of a period > bonnet, and a juried vendor area. The 2003 conference will also include > presentations and workshops on men's clothing, and special packages for > gentlemen and junior members are available. Complete details including > descriptions of the presentations and workshops, hotel information, and > registration fees can be found at our web site www.genteelarts.com > > Please feel free to contact me with any questions. > > Carolann Schmitt > cschmitt@genteelarts.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 19:13:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10575 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:13:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63Mt3C23891; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63Mt1D10904; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63MsED10597 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18912 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 18:18:04 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Wench Costume In-Reply-To: <001601c22133$c550c9d0$31baee0c@c59303b> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 18:18:04 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, chiara wrote: > Not to mention that all his books cost over 500.00 if you can even > find a copy! There used to be a bookseller offering to see it to me > for over a year swearing that it had great glove documentation in it. > Too much money for me to spend and cannot justify. Robin, can you look > at the book again and tell if it has anything about gloves? It was > perpetually out here in the Collin County library system and now it is > totally off the lists. :( Alas, I do not own the book and don't have a copy at ready access. I Xeroxed off the sections I needed for the papers I was writing, and I periodically go hunt up a copy when I'm looking at something new. I have no clue about glove content. I'm sure he covers it somewhere, but I frankly wouldn't consider it a good source. He cribbed so much from Strutt you might be better off looking at Strutt first anyway. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 19:35:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10632 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:35:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g63NI2C25763; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:18:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63NI0D20048; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g63NHHD19779 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.7f.28857e61 (25102) for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:17:07 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <7f.28857e61.2a54dff3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Conference on Mid-Nineteenth Century Clothing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7f.28857e61.2a54dff3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10034 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:17:07 EDT Status: RO --part1_7f.28857e61.2a54dff3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you know if they are still looking for presentations, or is the program set? Ann Wass --part1_7f.28857e61.2a54dff3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you know if they are still looking for presentations, or is the program set?
Ann Wass --part1_7f.28857e61.2a54dff3_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 21:38:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11080 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:38:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g641L2C02006; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g641L0D27622; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g641KED27422 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sandy (ppp-340.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.55.67.86]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g641K9OW017910 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:20:10 +1000 Message-Id: <200207040120.g641K9OW017910@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Frojel Gotlandica" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2380) For Windows 2000 (5.0.2195;2) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Amber (was Re: historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g641KED27422 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Frojel Gotlandica" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 11:17:49 +1000 Status: RO No the entire Baltic region is actually rising, Gotland has risen several meters since the Viking age, most amber is found on the Baltic coast after storms, the big storms move it around on the sea floor and being light it gets washed ashore, it is more common for divers to find it now than beachcombers but it is still being washed up on the beaches. Birka was situated on an island in the middle of a lake complex but no doubt there was amber there in the lake too but the majority of it comes from the Baltic sea. Sandy >Am I just making things up when I say that amber was more common "then" than >it is now? This is a weird reason, I know, but the sea floor around Birka >was rising in Viking period. Birka was actually abandoned partly because of >that (and the waterways on either side filled up with silt and it was harder >to get to). The sea floor had previously been forest, which is why there is >amber there to wash up on shore in the first place..... I'm guessing that >as the sea floor rose, the amber was more likely to be found or washed free. > But then again, this could just be crap.... > >Parsla Fr”jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. http://www.frojel.com/ frojel@frojel.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 22:13:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11249 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:13:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g641u1C03609; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g641u0D06633; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g641tkD06562 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip22.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.22]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g641tg719621 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 18:55:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume Message-ID: <3D234A1A.9885.1AFA2AB4@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:01:46 -0700 Status: RO > Back in the misty reaches of time when I was editing Tournaments > Illuminated for the SCA, I ran an article (which eventually into the > Known World Handbook, 2nd ed) called "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple > Feathers" which was both hysterical and very very useful. It takes up > the whole issue of costume lore getting handed down, errors and all, > both orally and in costume books. It especially focusses on how > redrawings of original artworks shift and change the evidence, until > redrawings of redrawings take on the appearance of authority, which > can be hell to un-do. > > I believe the authors used to be on this list, but don't know if > either of them still is. Anyway, if you can find a copy, it should be > one of the things every costume maven makes their 'prentices anbd > acolytes memorize! > MaggiRos I love that article! It is such a hoot. It was written by Linda Reames Fox (ska Lady Audelindis de Rheims) and is on page 120 of the second edition of the handbook. I heartily recommend it to anyone who thinks that extrapolation and interpolation can be done from such sources. (I think I'll leave it out as I have a student coming over this weekend who *really* needs to read it!) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 3 23:22:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11956 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:22:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64352C06683; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64350D23444; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout5-int.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6434cD23353 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:04:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-63.208.202.132.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [63.208.202.132]) by pimout5-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6434aK106580 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:04:37 -0400 Message-ID: <008901c22307$bf10fce0$84cad03f@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020703131841.00d9bec0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:06:08 -0400 Status: RO Well, my copy from AS XXVI says it's the third edition (one done AS XIV, and one done for ASXX). (as a matter of fact, just noticed the editor of this edition is a really cool member of our Barony.);-) Anyway, in this edition, it's on pp.129-131. It is a great article, like she says- both funny and making great points. (of course, it took not looking at the book for almost 5 years and then taking it out to figure out some of the differences between the two pictures, but I guess that was part of the reason for the article.);-} Moira >Back in the misty reaches of time when I was editing Tournaments Illuminated > >for the SCA, I ran an article (which eventually into the Known World > >Handbook, 2nd ed) called "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers" which > >was both hysterical and very very useful. > > I believe it was reprinted in the Knowne World Handbook. The second > edition, I think...whichever one it was that was released around AS XX. > Sorry I can't be more specific, but my ex-husband kept our copy. > > Margo > "One Tough Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 00:09:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12185 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:09:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g643q2C08752; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g643q0D05260; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g643pFD05084 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2153.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.153]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20990 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:51:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3D23C4DE.9341749F@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 23:45:35 -0400 Status: RO Oh, so you are the author of that gem! Thanks so much for writing that, so long ago. It has proved useful in many a "discussion" Mike T. > "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 00:23:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12303 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:23:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64462C09394; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64461D08968; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6445XD08848 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g6445SFc031800 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:05:29 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Olde Englysh receipts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: <3D237308.7040.1AE4DC6@localhost> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:13:29 -0700 Status: RO Sorry All, This is old news. SCA-Cooks has been discussing it for several days now :-) Wanda Pease "I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows. And a foundation leaks and a ball game gets rained out and a car rusts and..." -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jane Williams Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 1:56 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Olde Englysh receipts On 1 Jul 2002 at 13:17, Maggie Secara wrote: > > This isn't about costume directly but it is about historical food. And > what's a historical feast without historic costume, I ask you! (A naked > lunch (but that's another story.)) This exciting article in the Manchester > Guardian from Thursday, passed along on another list: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-1838714,00.html > > Gee, I wonder if we know any English librarians who could get close to > this... ;-) Thanks: will pass on to some cooking friends and lists. I note in passing that while this may well be the earliest *printed* English cookery book, it's isn't the earliest English cookery book by any means. Not even close. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 03:15:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21218 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:15:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g646w7C14524; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g646w1D16567; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f55.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.55]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g646vxD16548 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:57:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:57:53 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 06:57:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jul 2002 06:57:53.0657 (UTC) FILETIME=[1E76EE90:01C22328] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 23:57:53 -0700 Status: RO Oh! Shows how attentive I've been! I'm glad it made it into the new edition. It's a gem. MaggiRos >From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume >Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:06:08 -0400 > >Well, my copy from AS XXVI says it's the third edition (one done AS XIV, >and >one done for ASXX). (as a matter of fact, just noticed the editor of this >edition is a really cool member of our Barony.);-) Anyway, in this >edition, >it's on pp.129-131. It is a great article, like she says- both funny and >making great points. (of course, it took not looking at the book for >almost >5 years and then taking it out to figure out some of the differences >between >the two pictures, but I guess that was part of the reason for the >article.);-} >Moira > > >Back in the misty reaches of time when I was editing Tournaments >Illuminated > > >for the SCA, I ran an article (which eventually into the Known World > > >Handbook, 2nd ed) called "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers" >which > > >was both hysterical and very very useful. > > > > I believe it was reprinted in the Knowne World Handbook. The second > > edition, I think...whichever one it was that was released around AS XX. > > Sorry I can't be more specific, but my ex-husband kept our copy. > > > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Cheers, Maggie Secara ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 03:18:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22463 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:18:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64711C14626; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64710D17182; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f260.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.138]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64701D16999 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:59:56 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 06:59:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Olde Englysh receipts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jul 2002 06:59:56.0388 (UTC) FILETIME=[679E3240:01C22328] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 23:59:56 -0700 Status: RO So as costumers, we're a little behind on food news. Big deal. Better old news than none at all. Not like it's a race :) MaggiRos >From: "Wanda Pease" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Olde Englysh receipts >Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:13:29 -0700 > >Sorry All, > > This is old news. SCA-Cooks has been discussing it for several days now >:-) > >Wanda Pease >"I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows. And a >foundation leaks and a ball game gets rained out and a car rusts and..." > > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On >Behalf Of Jane Williams >Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 1:56 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Olde Englysh receipts > > >On 1 Jul 2002 at 13:17, Maggie Secara wrote: > > > > > This isn't about costume directly but it is about historical food. And > > what's a historical feast without historic costume, I ask you! (A naked > > lunch (but that's another story.)) This exciting article in the >Manchester > > Guardian from Thursday, passed along on another list: > > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-1838714,00.html > > > > Gee, I wonder if we know any English librarians who could get close to > > this... ;-) > >Thanks: will pass on to some cooking friends and >lists. > >I note in passing that while this may well be the >earliest *printed* English cookery book, it's isn't the >earliest English cookery book by any means. Not >even close. > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Cheers, Maggie Secara ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 04:14:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21690 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 04:14:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g647v2C15877; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g647v1D28364; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40012.mail.yahoo.com (web40012.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.30]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g647uGD28241 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020704075611.84857.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 08:56:11 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Olde Englysh receipts To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 08:56:11 +0100 (BST) Status: RO I believe a print run of the book is being made for visitors to Longleat House. I believe I heard this on Radio 4 but I could be mistaken. The webpage of Longleat House is at: http://www.longleat.co.uk/mainpage.htm They could probably give you more information on a possible print run. Rachel --- Maggie Secara wrote: > > This isn't about costume directly but it is about historical food. And > what's a historical feast without historic costume, I ask you! (A naked > lunch (but that's another story.)) This exciting article in the Manchester > Guardian from Thursday, passed along on another list: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-1838714,00.html > > Gee, I wonder if we know any English librarians who could get close to > this... ;-) > > > MaggiRos > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 04:40:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21796 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 04:40:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g648N2C16951; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 02:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g648N0D03422; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 02:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g648M5D03230 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 02:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYP00EFDTW0SB@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 01:22:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume In-reply-to: <3D2047DF.11268.F390097@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020704011827.00ce2e50@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 01:20:21 -0700 Status: RO >But he is a very good source for the > > Victorian interpretation of medieval costume, since his work defined > > much of the movement. > >Amen to that. Same with Braun and Schneider, Most of why I own Braun and Schneider is because of the by-now-historical ethnic and folk stuff in it. I believe their 19th century European stuff too. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 05:57:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22030 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 05:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g649e2C18910; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g649e1D16666; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g649dVD16588 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20146.; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:40:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 10:39:25 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g649dVD16588 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 10:39:07 +0100 Status: RO (A third attempt, since my test seems to have worked!) Nicole wrote: > the loops that you see are actually thread loops, attached to leg-less >glasses. they were like what in germany is called a 'zwicker', glasses that >were pinched onto the bridge of the nose without any earpieces, but some >attached thread loops which were looped around the ears. English speakers actually use the French term "pince-nez" (nose-pincher) for "Zwicker" - my German dictionary confirms this. I notice that the "legless" spectacles advertised by Jas. Townsend claim to be 15th/16th century; they offer nothing for the 17th! Some of my 17th century reenactor friends wear that type, some make do with discreet round metal frames which, as Nicole says, don't look too jarringly modern. Does anyone know of any evidence for Renaissance spectacles worn with a single safety cord rather than ear loops, like the Victorian pince-nez? I have an old pair of frames which would just about do as 17th century reading glasses, but they have only one ring for attaching a cord. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 06:26:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22145 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 06:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64972C18023; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64970D11984; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6496MD11850 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17810.; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:06:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 10:06:16 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6496MD11850 Subject: [h-cost] Test message Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 10:05:48 +0100 Status: RO Earlier this week I twice sent a message which hasn't reached the list. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 08:39:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22611 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 08:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64CM2C22915; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 06:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64CM0D18758; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 06:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g64CLu318734 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 06:21:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Test message Message-ID: <20020704062156.F7749@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 06:21:56 -0600 Status: RO If they haven't come through yet, they never got here. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 14:47:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24644 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:47:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64IU5C06390; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64IU1D15592; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64IT0D15286 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g64IUQF12045 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207041830.g64IUQF12045@jabberwock.wonderland.com> In-Reply-To: "from Maggie Secara at Jul 3, 2002 12:51:17 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Angels & Insects Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I just saw Angels & Insects last night, based on the novella by A.S. Byatt. The costuming -- 1862-1865 or so -- was just gorgeous to my eye. What particularly impressed me wasn't so much the historical quality of it, but that all the ladies were wearing coloration that reminded me of warning signs in the animal kingdom -- the bright stripes and "stay away" color combinations that many insects and reptiles wear. I rented it -- I think I'll have to buy it though! .heather.meadows. heather@sewhipithurts.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 15:27:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24844 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:27:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64JAFC07742; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:10:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64JADD25283; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:10:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64J7ZD24692 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:07:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtnk7.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.222.135] helo=[199.174.218.150]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17QBwx-0008NJ-00; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 15:07:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: To: apprentice@yahoogroups.com, europe16thc@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@net.indra.com, SCA Forum for Research in Medieval and Renaissance Re-enactmen , sca-bead@yahoogroups.com, Historic needlework list From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Paternosters mailing list Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:03:44 -0700 Status: RO Apologies for cross-posting, but I thought people on several other lists might be interested in yet another Yahoo! group (as if we all need _more_ mailing lists to subscribe to!). [Paternosters] is an e-mail list for people interested in historical rosaries, paternosters, and other prayer beads. If you re-create, research, collect, or just admire and are interested in the variety of rosaries (etc.) that have been used in history, you are very welcome to join us! There is also a FAQ file in the Paternosters files area (which anyone can read) giving a brief synopsis of the history of the rosary and its predecessor, the paternoster. It's at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Paternosters/files/Rosaries-FAQ To learn more about the Paternosters group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Paternosters Pax et bonum! O-oooooooooo-O-oooooooooo-O-oooooooooo-O-oooooooooo-O-oooooooooo-O To subscribe or unsubscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/paternosters To change your e-mail address or preferences: http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups O-oooooooooo-O-oooooooooo-O-oooooooooo-O-oooooooooo-O-oooooooooo-O -- _________________________________________________________ O (Lady) Christian de Holacombe | Chris Laning + Shire of Windy Meads - Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 16:09:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25107 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:09:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64JpsC09197; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:51:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64JppD05772; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:51:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21507.mail.yahoo.com (web21507.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.18]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g64JiXD04091 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:44:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020704194433.4100.qmail@web21507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.1.9.149] by web21507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 20:44:33 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?marcus=20findlay-arthur?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Help with my dye problems Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 20:44:33 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Folks, Thank you very much for all the help on the dye problem I'm currently enjoying.Am doing it in stages and seem to be falling behind a bit,still I'll get there. Katya - I did locate Dylon at Beatties here in Birmingham.If you want to get some or stock up with them give me a holler. Marcus __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 16:54:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25416 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:54:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64KamC10845; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:36:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64KakD16406; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:36:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64KOqD13366 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:24:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020704202447.KYXT29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 20:24:47 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c22398$d6cb3d00$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] linen weight? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:24:43 -0700 Status: RO Hello all, I'm beginning work on a reproduction of a Danish dress from 1796 in the Danish book _Moden 1790-1840_. It's one of those very gathered, sheer, white dresses that you see in Heidloff plates (eg http://www.costumes.org/history/regency/boehn/heidloff1796B.JPG) I'm making the dress in a sheer cotton voile (the original was made of "nettlecloth" -- any ideas what that is?), and the bodice and sleeves are lined in linen. It's one of those interesting constructions where the linen lining creates the structure for the bodice. I'll be wearing this over a bodice petticoat (like those in Hunnisett's _Period Costume_), and my question is this -- what weight should I use for the linen lining? I'd like to order something from fabrics-store.com, and it looks like they offer the following weights: 3.5 oz., 4.6, 5.3, 5.9, 7.1, and 7.46 oz. Now I'm totally unfamiliar with linen weights (if I could hold the fabric in my hand, I'd be fine, but those numbers just don't mean anything to me!). Is there anyone who can recommend which weight I should use? I want enough weight to hold the structure of the dress, but it won't need to serve as a corset. I'd appreciate any recommendations! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 16:56:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25433 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64KdDC10924; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:39:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64KdBD17031; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64KRgD14091 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020704202737.YRXF903.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 20:27:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c22399$3c561c80$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Danish translation? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:27:36 -0700 Status: RO Is there anyone on the list who reads Danish and would be willing to translate some brief pattern notations for me? I have a scaled pattern from a Danish book, and while I can figure out what all of the pattern pieces are, I'd like to be able to understand the construction notes. This pattern is along the lines of something from Janet Arnold, so it's not too much text. If anyone can help me out, please let me know! Thanks, Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 17:36:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25654 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 17:36:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64LJAC12311; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:19:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64LJ9D27007; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64KuwD21323 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA25029 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:59:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3D24B77C.B568CA69@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Museum of Costume - revamped web site References: <001701c21c0c$e3457340$befc8218@WERNTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 14:00:45 -0700 Status: RO Has any one else tried the new URL and found that their screen freezes, forcing you to reboot entirely? Oddly enough, I _can_ access the second URL for the game without any problems!! Also, I tried backtracking this URL and my screen still froze. (OCC: yes, Kendra, you're right about the weird choices for the garb of the decade). Anyone else have similar results? Thanks for letting me vent my frustration, Theresa Eacker Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > The Museum of Costume in Bath has revamped their website -- better design, > and some nicer photos of some of their collection: > > http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/ (Pruning) > > The direct URL for the game is: > http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/htmlContent/game.htm > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 4 19:02:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26633 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:02:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g64MimC15215; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64MilD17133; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64MdtD16075 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-38lc29f.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.9.47] helo=[199.174.218.150]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17QFGS-0001yr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 18:39:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000f01c22399$3c561c80$befc8218@WERNTO> References: <000f01c22399$3c561c80$befc8218@WERNTO> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish translation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:25:20 -0700 Status: RO Sure -- send them along! At 1:27 PM -0700 7/4/02, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: >Is there anyone on the list who reads Danish and would be willing to >translate some brief pattern notations for me? I have a scaled pattern from >a Danish book, and while I can figure out what all of the pattern pieces >are, I'd like to be able to understand the construction notes. > >This pattern is along the lines of something from Janet Arnold, so it's not >too much text. > >If anyone can help me out, please let me know! -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 5 08:37:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07747 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 08:37:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g65CKaC10499; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 06:20:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g65CKSD28372; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 06:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g65BYKD20043 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 05:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18433.; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 12:34:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Jul 2002 12:34:02 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g65BYKD20043 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 12:33:33 +0100 Status: RO Kendra wrote: >>>I'm making the dress in a sheer cotton voile (the original was made of "nettlecloth" -- any ideas what that is?), That would be a linen-type material made with the fibres from nettle stems instead of flax. I saw some prepared ones once and they were very coarse, but I believe experts can spin quite fine thread from them. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:28:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02837 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:28:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HArC14391; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HAjD23082; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g64N87D22041 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 17:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-001mosloup168.dialsprint.net ([168.191.109.104] helo=hppav) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17QFhl-0004QQ-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 19:08:06 -0400 Message-ID: <004a01c223af$ef3e9460$686dbfa8@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:10:03 -0500 Status: RO Ah, could somone point to an online copy of the article. Not sure I want to spend $16 for one article. Thanks. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:29:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02847 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:29:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HCcC14504; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:12:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HCbD23580; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g650ROD09237 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-12-209.s717.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.12.209] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17QGwU-0002Yu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 20:27:23 -0400 Message-ID: <3D24E979.5000508@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish translation? References: <000f01c22399$3c561c80$befc8218@WERNTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 20:34:01 -0400 Status: RO Hi Kendra- I don't know how much of a help this is, but when I went to Denmark last summer and visited with a woman in Farum, I brought some samples from fabrics-store with me in case anything I needed would be the same weight. I'm making an everyday dress from the 1840-60s. Silke-Annet told me that the white 5.5 oz (ILO19) was good for the sark, and the natural 7.1 (4C22?) to line the bodice with. Your dress may be fancier and lighter weight than mine - I'm working with alpaca drille. The other thing you might want to know about, is that there is a page at fabrics-store.com where you can ask for free samples. You can't really specify the color, but you can ask for all the different weights of linen. Then you can feel what they are like. I've done this with them. Hope that's a help. > Is there anyone on the list who reads Danish and would be willing to > translate some brief pattern notations for me? The other thing you might find helpful, is that if you contact the Butterick-UK office (can't find the email off hand, but it should be findable), they will mail you a copy of the english-Danish pattern insert which has a glossary of sewing and pattern terms! This will probably make the poor man very confused as you would be the 3rd person asking him for this - he was very surprised when the 2nd person asked! (It's a conspiracy ;-) ). But he kindly sent them for free, and even sent me the Swedish and Finnish ones also (wish I had a Norwegian one, dunno if there is one). Anyway, this might also be a help with the book. Worth a try! -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:34:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02881 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:34:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HE2C14637; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HDvD23987; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:13:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g65BPPD18423 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 05:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb06la (unverified [10.1.200.110]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 04:21:48 -0700 thread-index: AcIkFicfuZhDi/RCR/eWnsyqXMkgkg== Thread-Topic: Nettlecloth From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Message-ID: <02da01c22416$271fc870$6ec8010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02DB_01C223DB.7AC0F070" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Nettlecloth Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 04:21:48 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02DB_01C223DB.7AC0F070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > I'm making the dress in a sheer cotton voile (the original was made of > "nettlecloth" -- any ideas what that is?) I'm sure someone has already answered this, but nettlecloth will be just that, cloth made from nettles. It makes a very similar fibre to linen, and is processed very like flax, using the long fibres that grow iside the long nettle stem. Ramie is nettle fibre, but this may be processed differently. They also use yarn made from nettles in the Himalaya region. Freyalyn, PFUI ------=_NextPart_000_02DB_01C223DB.7AC0F070 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message----->
> I'm making the dress in a sheer cotton voile (the original was made of
> "nettlecloth" -- any ideas what that is?)

I'm sure someone has already answered this, but nettlecloth will be just that, cloth made from nettles. It makes
a very similar fibre to linen, and is processed very like flax, using the long fibres that grow iside the long nettle
stem. Ramie is nettle fibre, but this may be processed differently. They also use yarn made from nettles in the
Himalaya region.

Freyalyn, PFUI ------=_NextPart_000_02DB_01C223DB.7AC0F070-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:34:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02880 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:34:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HE0C14632; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:14:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HDqD23955; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g658scD20799 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 02:54:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g658sYs57331; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:54:34 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200207050854.g658sYs57331@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:54:34 BST Status: RO Kendra Van Cleave wrote : > I'm making the dress in a sheer cotton voile (the original was made of > "nettlecloth" -- any ideas what that is?), Only an guess, but I seem to remember being told that you can get a linen-like thread from nettles. Presumbaly yu cna then weave it into cloth. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:34:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02888 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:34:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HEIC14672; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HE8D24058; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:14:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g65EbjD29141 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 08:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a216.in-tch.com [66.62.107.16]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g65EO9T15384 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 08:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D25B08B.2602A5E9@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? References: <000e01c22398$d6cb3d00$befc8218@WERNTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 08:43:23 -0600 Status: RO I've ordered a couple of different times from these guys (okay, I give, I've ordered *lots,* judging by the stack in one bedroom, and the 20-yd. roll in the other), and the lightest weight (3.5 oz), is a decent chemise-weight, but more like a heavier chemise than a really light one, if you know what I mean. So, since the outer layer of your garment is very light weight, that's the one I'd use. I've also acquired some of their 7.1 oz (the 20 yd. roll of unbleached, and a few other pieces, mostly for use in linings for gothic fitted gowns, and for some anglo-saxon clothing), and I did notice a bit of *apparent* differences to the heft/feel to these--some feel lighter weight, some heavier (dunno if it's finishing, or color, or if it's actually different ), but all are far more substantial than my 3 oz. shift stuff. More like really sturdy overtunic weight, pretty closely approximating the average feel of the denim in my fall/winter blue jeans. I dunno for sure (because I've never tried), but you might be able to contact the company directly, and ask for samples..... --Sue, fellow linen lover ;-) Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > I'll be wearing this over a > bodice petticoat (like those in Hunnisett's _Period Costume_), and my > question is this -- what weight should I use for the linen lining? > > I'd like to order something from fabrics-store.com, and it looks like they > offer the following weights: 3.5 oz., 4.6, 5.3, 5.9, 7.1, and 7.46 oz. Now > I'm totally unfamiliar with linen weights (if I could hold the fabric in my > hand, I'd be fine, but those numbers just don't mean anything to me!). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:35:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02896 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:35:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HGVC14995; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HGED24771; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6624gD13930 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 20:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip146.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.146]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g6624bV3028668 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200207060204.g6624bV3028668@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume In-Reply-To: <3D23C4DE.9341749F@dandy.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 22:02:19 -0400 Status: RO Since some of us have never seen the article in question, what's it about? -- Mara At 11:45 PM 7/3/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Oh, so you are the author of that gem! Thanks so much for writing that, so long >ago. It has proved useful in many a "discussion" Mike T. > >> "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers" Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:35:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02900 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:35:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HGrC15020; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:17:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HGND24807; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:16:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g662HQD16400 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 20:17:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip146.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.146]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g662HNV3029449 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200207060217.g662HNV3029449@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? In-Reply-To: <000e01c22398$d6cb3d00$befc8218@WERNTO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 22:15:06 -0400 Status: RO At 01:24 PM 7/4/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I'd like to order something from fabrics-store.com, and it looks like they >offer the following weights: 3.5 oz., 4.6, 5.3, 5.9, 7.1, and 7.46 oz. Now >I'm totally unfamiliar with linen weights (if I could hold the fabric in my >hand, I'd be fine, but those numbers just don't mean anything to me!). Is >there anyone who can recommend which weight I should use? I want enough >weight to hold the structure of the dress, but it won't need to serve as a >corset. > >I'd appreciate any recommendations! > >- Kendra Hi, Kendra, The 3.5 oz. is a bit lightweight and sheer to be used for lining; I'm using it for shifts and neckerchiefs right now. I'd go with the 4.6 oz. or 5.3 oz., but not anything heavier. Cheers, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:47:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02952 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:47:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HU4C15721; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HU1D27975; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HTWD27879 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip254.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.254]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g66HTQ313167 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 10:29:27 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume Message-ID: <3D26C747.5286.289BA8AD@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200207060204.g6624bV3028668@saltmine.radix.net> References: <3D23C4DE.9341749F@dandy.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 10:32:39 -0700 Status: RO Regarding: "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers" > Since some of us have never seen the article in question, what's it > about? > -- Mara It's about the pitfalls of source interpretation and why we can't always interpolate or extrapolate from various sources. It's a basic on documentation problems. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:47:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02959 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:47:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HUEC15738; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HUBD28036; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:30:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f253.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.131]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HTeD27898 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 10:29:34 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Jul 2002 17:29:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2002 17:29:34.0748 (UTC) FILETIME=[B219F5C0:01C22512] Subject: [h-cost] Ruritanian Purople Feathers [was Planche] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 10:29:34 -0700 Status: RO Well y'know, I Googled on "ruritanian purple" and the very first hit was http://www.dreamworker-magazine.com/frontpage/purplefeathers.html Will that do? :-) MaggiRos >To: >Subject: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume >Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:10:03 -0500 > >Ah, could somone point to an online copy of the article. Not sure I want >to >spend $16 for one article. Thanks. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Cheers, Maggie Secara ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 13:47:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02963 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:47:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66HUGC15741; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:30:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HUDD28063; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f253.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.131]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66HTeD27897 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 10:29:34 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Jul 2002 17:29:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2002 17:29:34.0748 (UTC) FILETIME=[B219F5C0:01C22512] Subject: [h-cost] Ruritanian Purople Feathers [was Planche] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 10:29:34 -0700 Status: RO Well y'know, I Googled on "ruritanian purple" and the very first hit was http://www.dreamworker-magazine.com/frontpage/purplefeathers.html Will that do? :-) MaggiRos >To: >Subject: [h-cost] Planche, was: Wench Costume >Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:10:03 -0500 > >Ah, could somone point to an online copy of the article. Not sure I want >to >spend $16 for one article. Thanks. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Cheers, Maggie Secara ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 19:05:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04724 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 19:05:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66Mm6C26768; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66Mm0D29914; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66Ml1D29761 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip89.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.89]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g66Mks326990 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruritanian Purople Feathers [was Planche] Message-ID: <3D271336.18095.A319E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 15:56:38 -0700 Status: RO > Well y'know, I Googled on "ruritanian purple" and the very first hit > was http://www.dreamworker-magazine.com/frontpage/purplefeathers.html > > Will that do? :-) > > MaggiRos This has the text, but does not have the drawings which go with it. The drawings are very helpful in understanding what is being discussed in the article. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 6 19:38:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04800 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 19:38:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g66NL4C27998; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66NL0D06556; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g66NKlD06502 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:20:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2233.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.233]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22963 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 19:20:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3D2779F1.27175C01@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historic "sunglasses" for Renaissance faires References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 19:14:57 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. Textile remnants such as cording did not survive on the ones I have seen. I have, somewhere, a report from an excavation of a Tudor Free Grammar School, in Oxford, I think. The spectacle frames had the attachment points in such a way that it might be possible to fit a cord or cords on near to where modern glasses have their sidepieces (the attachment points in this case being the points at which wire was wound to hold in the lenses). Since the spectacles of that age were used sitting down to read, I suspect that either two earpieces or nothing at all would have sufficed. Of course, if you have a nice period-style pair made up, I would guess safety would be quite a concern. I have also seen pictures of physicians wearing them to do "medical" work, but this was also kind of up-close stuff also, and no earpieces, alone or in pairs, were in evidence. Mike T. > > > Does anyone know of any evidence for Renaissance spectacles worn with a single safety cord rather than ear loops, like the Victorian pince-nez? I have an old pair of frames which would just about do as 17th century reading glasses, but they have only one ring for attaching a cord. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 00:36:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05717 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 00:36:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g674J5C08315; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 22:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g674J0D02620; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 22:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f24.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.24]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g674IZD02547 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 22:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 21:18:30 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Jul 2002 04:18:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruritanian Purople Feathers [was Planche] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2002 04:18:30.0583 (UTC) FILETIME=[59AAE470:01C2256D] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:18:30 -0700 Status: RO Yes, I know. I was pretty disappointed. Although the drawings aren't specifically addressed in that version of the article. The web version does include an e-mail addy for Linda Reames Fox, so I suppose you (or whoever) could drop her a note. MaggiRos >From: kat@grendal.rain.com >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruritanian Purople Feathers [was Planche] >Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 15:56:38 -0700 > > > > Well y'know, I Googled on "ruritanian purple" and the very first hit > > was http://www.dreamworker-magazine.com/frontpage/purplefeathers.html > > > > Will that do? :-) > > > > MaggiRos > >This has the text, but does not have the drawings which go with it. >The drawings are very helpful in understanding what is being >discussed in the article. > > >Kat > >Kat(June Russell) >kat@grendal.rain.com >Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Cheers, Maggie Secara ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 11:49:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08273 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:48:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67FW9C24830; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67FW0D17101; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67FV3D16953 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvMiFt7tKG0kN1HOtmq0of8="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G65H59E2; Sun, 07 Jul 2002 11:30:27 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20020707.083023.-182223.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,7-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: [h-cost] Ruritanian purple feathers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:02:47 +0000 Status: RO Great article--it's about knowing what you are looking at, and figuring out if your sources knew what *they* were looking at when they first attempted to interpret it. One howlingly funny example has the costumed subject wearing a gown with only one functional sleeve, for instance, thanks to a misinterpretive drawing. I teach research and research writing and highly recommend it to my SCA students. Arlys On Sat, 6 Jul 2002 10:32:39 -0700 kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > Regarding: "The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers" > > Since some of us have never seen the article in question, what's > it about? > > -- Mara ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 11:49:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08279 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:49:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67FWbC24863; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:32:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67FWZD17216; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67FV4D16957 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvMiFt7tKG0kJpziukbhDic="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G65H59GE; Sun, 07 Jul 2002 11:30:27 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com, jane@williams.nildram.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? Message-ID: <20020707.083023.-182223.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-25 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:04:29 +0000 Status: RO One of our local Laurels has in fact spun nettles into thread. I don't know if she's woven with it. Maybe Kat does. Arlys On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:54:34 BST writes: > Kendra Van Cleave wrote : > > > I'm making the dress in a sheer cotton voile (the original was > made of > > "nettlecloth" -- any ideas what that is?), > > Only an guess, but I seem to remember being told that you can get a > linen-like thread from nettles. Presumbaly yu cna then weave it into > cloth. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 13:06:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08567 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:06:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67Gn2C27552; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67Gn1D01445; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67GlxD01240 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip195.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.195] (may be forged)) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g67Glqj23792 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:47:53 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? Message-ID: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020707.083023.-182223.1.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:57:28 -0700 Status: RO > One of our local Laurels has in fact spun nettles into thread. I don't > know if she's woven with it. Maybe Kat does. > > Arlys She didn't make enough to weave with. She only made enough for test pieces for spinning to go with her display. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 13:15:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08596 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:15:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67Gx1C27958; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67Gx0D03330; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67Gw0D03144 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dwin-1307-3 (dwin-1307-3.Linguistics.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.100.54]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with SMTP id g67Gw0E29541 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020707165333.01373ca4@socrates.berkeley.edu> X-Sender: hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie: "Druids" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 09:53:33 -0700 Status: RO At 11:07 PM 7/2/02 -0700, you wrote: >Oh oh oh, I am at this very momemt hurting myself for some undesignated >sins, apparently, by watching a film called "Druids" with Christopher >Lambert and Klaus Maria Brandauer, et al. > >To make it worth my while I will ask of the assembled h-costume multitude... >is there any costume virtue--or any other virtue--in this film at all? >Aside from the brief glorious appearance of Max vonSydow,anyway? > >Oh the pain, the pain! > > >MaggiRos On the other hand, "Druids" pretty much breaks the meter of Joe-Bob Briggs' "breasts count". In a weird way, it was a very enjoyable movie ... particularly once you identified, analyzed, and filtered out the parts that were modern French socio-political posturing. Heather >~noting the remarkably few horned helmets > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 13:23:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08635 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:23:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67H71C28337; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67H70D04840; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67H6GD04733 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dwin-1307-3 (dwin-1307-3.Linguistics.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.100.54]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with SMTP id g67H6FE05250 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020707170149.009b5e14@socrates.berkeley.edu> X-Sender: hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: druids Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 10:01:49 -0700 Status: RO At 02:58 PM 7/3/02 -0400, you wrote: >movie was originally called "Vercingetorix," and for those who haven't seen >it, that's just what it was -- the story of Vercingetorix, the famous chief >of the Gauls defeated by Julius Caesar. Apparently they thought anyone >outside of France would be more likely to go see a movie called "Druids," >although the Druids are barely in it. It seems to have been intended to be >the French "Braveheart," but without the "triumph of the spirit" part. Poor >old Vercingetorix takes a pretty dim view of things right from the start! Perhaps one of the reasons that "Druids" doesn't seem to work as well as "Braveheart" from a dramatic-structure and triumph-of-the-spirit point of view, is that the overall structure of the film is actually remarkably true to the historic events! (Vastly unlike "Braveheart".) Of course, you still had to toss in a gratuitous romance (for which, as far as I know, there is no historic reference -- but, hey, at least they didn't play fast and loose with an actual historic woman) and of course the back-story of the protagonist's youth is fiction, but in terms of the interactions with the Romans and the eventual outcome, the movie stuck pretty close to the known facts. Heather _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 18:21:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14049 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:21:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67M45C09738; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67M41D08666; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67M3rD08638 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtm2e.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.216.78]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17RK8F-00083v-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Jul 2002 18:03:51 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 14:59:55 -0700 Status: RO At 9:57 AM -0700 7/7/02, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > One of our local Laurels has in fact spun nettles into thread. I don't >> know if she's woven with it. Maybe Kat does. >> >> Arlys > >She didn't make enough to weave with. She only made enough for >test pieces for spinning to go with her display. I'm told, though I can't nail down the source at the moment, that nettle linen could be finely spun and woven to make a very sheer and soft fabric, and that some people preferred it as a luxury fabric to linen made from flax. But I also wouldn't be surprised to see it show up, as hemp does, in a coarser form used for practical chores. (To repeat a well-known fact: the original "canvas" was a hempen fabric, named from "cannabis," the Latin word for hemp.) Unlike flax or hemp, the raw materials for nettle linen would have been free for the gathering, at least in Western Europe. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 18:34:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14090 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:34:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67MI2C10314; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67MI1D11903; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g67MHxD11891 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26495 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2002 22:17:59 -0000 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (209.15.2.27) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 7 Jul 2002 22:17:59 -0000 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.47.20]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sun, 07 Jul 2002 17:17:56 -0500 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0205_01C225E2.9DB38620" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Costume College? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:17:53 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0205_01C225E2.9DB38620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wondering if anyone else on this list is attending. I've never been and I'm going alone, just wondering if there are any folks I should try and meet up with. Allison ------=_NextPart_000_0205_01C225E2.9DB38620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Costume College?

Just wondering if anyone else on this list is = attending.

I've never been and I'm going alone, just wondering if = there are any folks I should try and meet up with.

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_0205_01C225E2.9DB38620-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 18:51:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14140 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:51:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67MZ2C10856; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67MZ1D15599; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67MYpD15557 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020707223445.LSGG8262.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:34:45 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c22606$7d57a3b0$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] nettlecloth (WAS linen weight?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 15:34:43 -0700 Status: RO For those who are interested, the 1796 dress made of nettlecloth that started this thread is pictured in a book on Danish fashion called _Moden 1790-1840_ by Ellen Andersen. The fabric looks very much like a fine, sheer cotton -- not at all coarse or even linen-y. There is a note in the section on dress of 1790-1804 that reads, "Women's fabrics: Linen and nettlecloth were the most popular materials for women's gowns, as they were stiffer than muslin and thus well suited to the fashions of the 1790's." - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 18:52:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14144 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:52:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67Ma1C10915; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67Ma0D15841; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67MZbD15746 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:35:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020707223532.LSTY8262.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:35:32 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c22606$99672c10$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 15:35:30 -0700 Status: RO Thanks for all of the input on linen weights -- I think I'm going to go for one of the medium weights (probably 4.6) and see how it goes! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 19:02:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14191 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:02:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67Mk1C11276; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67Mk0D18217; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67MjQD18071 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:45:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m146.in-tch.com [216.166.191.146]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g67MVlT08202 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:31:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D28C5DA.C849564E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 16:51:06 -0600 Status: RO What Costume College? --sue, wondering if she "killed" the wrong thread by accident.... > Allison Thurman wrote: > > Just wondering if anyone else on this list is attending. > > I've never been and I'm going alone, just wondering if there are any > folks I should try and meet up with. > > Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 19:10:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14223 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:10:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67Ms3C11599; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67Ms1D20166; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67Mr6D19960 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020707225301.MDHU8262.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:53:01 +0000 Message-ID: <003401c22609$0a3a28a0$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <3D28C5DA.C849564E@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 15:52:58 -0700 Status: RO Costume College (http://www.costumecollege.org/) happens every year in Van Nuys, Calif. (near LA). It's a weekend of costume classes (both lecture and hands-on workshops) which is quite fabulous! Allison, I'll be there Sat. & Sun. and would be happy to meet up! Maybe we can have an h-costume lunch? - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 19:18:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14251 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:18:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67N22C12010; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67N21D22262; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67N18D22088 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020707230103.IPDN24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:01:03 +0000 Message-ID: <003501c2260a$29d8fcd0$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] 1790's corsets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 16:01:01 -0700 Status: RO One last post from me! Lately I've been pondering corsets of the 1790's lately, and wondering when the change from the traditionally 18th century shape (cone) gave way to the Regency ("lift and spread") shape in Europe and the U.S. I know we've all moved past the idea that women just stopped wearing ANY corset in the 1790's-1810's, but when did corsets start to change? It seems that even as late as 1795, you still see dresses that were obviously robe a l'anglaises recut with a higher waistline to fit the new style. At the same time, some of the early Directoire dresses (the gathered chemise dresses) have linen under-bodices which may have supported the breasts without need for a corset. However, I question the idea that someone who spent her whole life in corsets would suddenly feel comfortable going without that kind of structure. This all leads me to think that most women must have, for at least some time, worn 18th century-shaped corsets under their early Directoire gowns -- especially as French fashions filtered out to other countries. I know that there are few (if any?) extant corsets from this era (which may in itself answer the "did they wear a corset" question). _Revolution in Fashion_ includes one corset from 1790 (still in the 18th c. cone shape) and then skips to 1820 (which has the Regency "lift and spread" shape). Cunnington's _English Women's Clothing in the 19th Century_ writes re: the period 1800-1820, that there is little information on this period and so accepts examples of the 1820's as representative of the earlier period. Can anyone point me to any other sources that might help me fill in the gaps between 1790 and 1820? Does _Corsets & Crinolines_ touch on this era? Thanks! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 19:20:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14266 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g67N41C12091; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67N40D22735; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g67N3hD22667 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:03:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sandy (ppp-218.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.56.253.218]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g67N3bOW018436 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:03:38 +1000 Message-Id: <200207072303.g67N3bOW018436@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Frojel Gotlandica" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2380) For Windows 2000 (5.0.2195;2) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20020707165333.01373ca4@socrates.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5153984=_=_=_" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie: "Druids" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Frojel Gotlandica" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:03:37 +1000 Status: RO --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5153984=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Folks OK the bead CD is now up on Professor Carlssons site. For those interested have a look at :- http://www16.aname.net/~arkeodok/ First in a series from Gotland University's Archaeology Department. One nice difference is that they should be in colour as opposed to different gray textures as in many of the archaeology books. Gotland is where over 80% of the Viking age finds in Sweden come from. It was a major trading centre in the Baltic up until the Battle of Visby. Cheers Sandy Fr=94jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. http://www.frojel.com/ frojel@frojel.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5153984=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Hi Folks
OK the bead CD is now up on Professor Carlssons site.
For those interested have a look at :-
http://www16.aname.net/~arkeodok/=
First in a series from Gotland University's Archaeology Department.
One nice difference is that they should be in colour as opposed to
different gray textures as in many of the archaeology books.
Gotland is where over 80% of the Viking age finds in Sweden come
from. It was a major trading centre in the Baltic up until the
Battle of Visby.
Cheers
Sandy
Fr=F6jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society.
= http://www.frojel.com/
frojel@frojel.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5153984=_=_=_-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 20:27:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14511 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:27:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g680B2C14999; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g680B0D07618; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m24.jersey.juno.com (m24.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g680AiD07557 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"6+EQmPyi7QIwbF+RNYxk33J3PBBhb5SJo+82HzjJBtMkbC0pYuLSrQ=="> Received: (from ysabiau@juno.com) by m24.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G66FVSVW; Sun, 07 Jul 2002 20:10:07 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please Message-ID: <20020707.201142.-959541.0.ysabiau@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,8-10 From: Christine Wright Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:11:41 -0400 Status: RO On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:35:09 -0700 "Saragrace knauf" writes: > I have posted a 'how to' on shoulder rolls on my website. I would > appreciate any feedback on clarity etc. Thanks!! I like the notes on how to put it together, and have a quick question - do you think there is any another fabric I could substitute for the felt during construction? I am allergic to wool! Thanks, Ysabiau ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 21:02:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14637 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:02:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g680k1C16518; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g680k0D15731; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g680jdD15670 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g680l4v36186 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:47:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207080047.g680l4v36186@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College? In-Reply-To: <003401c22609$0a3a28a0$befc8218@WERNTO> "from Kendra Van Cleave at Jul 7, 2002 03:52:58 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I'll be there as well! .heather. > Costume College (http://www.costumecollege.org/) happens every year in Van > Nuys, Calif. (near LA). It's a weekend of costume classes (both lecture and > hands-on workshops) which is quite fabulous! > > Allison, I'll be there Sat. & Sun. and would be happy to meet up! Maybe we > can have an h-costume lunch? > > - Kendra > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 23:04:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15145 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:04:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g682l5C21402; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g682l0D13474; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g682kgD13402 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2237.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.237]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32353 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:46:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3D28FBAA.FE5FA8D4@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:40:42 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. I have used nettle for various things, none of which has come close to the h-cost standard for content (nettle beer, salads and an attempt at cheese preservation), but I was reading some material a while back that noted that in the deteriorating economy of late WWI Germany, shirts for soldiers were being made from nettle fabric. Whether this is indicative of the low cost of manufacture, the ease of access of the raw material (like cannabis, the leaves of the plant can be used for other purposes, in this case, food) or the coarseness of the cloth (and perhaps the poorness of the product itself), I do not know, as the source did not mention it. I have never seen nettlecloth, but the hemp canvas that I have seen comes in as many grades as those of linen, from coarse sacking to fine sheer cloth suitable for even the most delicate ladies' unmentionables. Nettle, aside from being slightly harder to gather than the previously mentioned materials, can either be sewn as a crop or gathered in the wild. I don't think nettle seed is as valuable as either of the others for oils, so perhaps this might explain it's lack of proper cultivation. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 23:13:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15185 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:13:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g682v4C21754; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g682v0D15741; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g682ukD15676 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g682uhU22816 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:56:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: <003501c2260a$29d8fcd0$befc8218@WERNTO> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:56:43 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO > Can anyone point me to any other sources that might help me fill in the gaps > between 1790 and 1820? Does _Corsets & Crinolines_ touch on this era? I don't have _Corsets and Crinolines_, so I'm not sure what it does and doesn't have, but one transitional corset that has always interested me is styled like the 18th century conical corsets but is very short, midriff length, made to be worn under high-waisted gowns. There used to be a picture of this corset on the Long Island Staylace Association web page, but the link to that particular image seems to be currently non-functional. To get to the image: go to http://www.staylace.com BE AWARE: This page tends toward the fetish side of corsetry and may have images that some may find offensive. Follow my instructions and you shouldn't be exposed to it. In the frame on the left, scroll down to and click on "Image Galleries" you want Corset Gallery #7, Historical Examples. Skip the first three links and click on the first small image of a corset, which has the caption "2 views - Early-nineteenth century (1819)" Like I said, this image currently seems to be inaccessable, but I hope it will soon be back. It's an interesting corset and a valuable piece of fashion history. Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 7 23:17:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15219 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:17:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68314C21957; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:01:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68310D16624; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6830ZD16527 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:00:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g6830X923257 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:00:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: <003501c2260a$29d8fcd0$befc8218@WERNTO> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:00:33 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO aha! I found it! Kind of. Direct link to the image: http://www.staylace.com/gallery/gallery07/graphics/1819.jpg Looking again, I think my remembered interpretation isn't entirely correct, but now you can see and decide for yourselves. Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 00:12:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15459 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:12:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g683u6C24419; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g683u1D29172; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g683tPD28993 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:55:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m199.in-tch.com [216.166.191.199]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g683fkT03619 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D290E81.92CCA76D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> <3D28FBAA.FE5FA8D4@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:01:05 -0600 Status: RO Of course, there's also that fairy tale about the faithful sister making seven nettle shirts for her brothers, who'd been turned into swans....I know, I know, not exactly a *good* primary source, but I find it interesting that something that sounds so fantastical as making cloth from something as formidable and thorny as a nettle (in a story from an oral tradition) actually may have been possible (also makes me wonder how old that particular tale is...does anyone know? Is it from the Grimm brothers? or maybe a Childe ballad?) --Sue, rambling rather than getting ready for bed ;-D leigh tartaglio wrote: > > Hi, All. I have used nettle for various things, none of which has come close to > the h-cost standard for content (nettle beer, salads and an attempt at cheese > preservation), but I was reading some material a while back that noted that in > the deteriorating economy of late WWI Germany, shirts for soldiers were being > made from nettle fabric. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 00:16:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15496 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:16:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68402C24643; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:00:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68401D00285; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g683xGD29923 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:59:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m199.in-tch.com [216.166.191.199]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g683jaT04465 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:45:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D290F68.BBAFB194@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please References: <20020707.201142.-959541.0.ysabiau@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:04:56 -0600 Status: RO Use a felt that's *not* made out of wool? Like a craft felt, maybe? --sue Christine Wright wrote: > > I like the notes on how to put it together, and have a quick question - > do you think there is any another fabric I could substitute for the felt > during construction? I am allergic to wool! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 00:19:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15521 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:19:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68434C24783; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68431D00985; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6842ID00797 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:02:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020708040212.KEHZ29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:02:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3D290EC2.8030101@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Nettle allergy Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 21:02:10 -0700 Status: RO I hope this is not a silly question. What if someone is allergic to nettles? Would nettle fabric cause the same reaction as the raw nettle? Roscelin Rose Amberwulf Chris Laning wrote: > At 9:57 AM -0700 7/7/02, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > >> > One of our local Laurels has in fact spun nettles into thread. I >> don't >> >>> know if she's woven with it. Maybe Kat does. >>> >>> Arlys >> >> >> She didn't make enough to weave with. She only made enough for >> test pieces for spinning to go with her display. > > > I'm told, though I can't nail down the source at the moment, that > nettle linen could be finely spun and woven to make a very sheer and > soft fabric, and that some people preferred it as a luxury fabric to > linen made from flax. > > But I also wouldn't be surprised to see it show up, as hemp does, in a > coarser form used for practical chores. (To repeat a well-known fact: > the original "canvas" was a hempen fabric, named from "cannabis," the > Latin word for hemp.) > > Unlike flax or hemp, the raw materials for nettle linen would have > been free for the gathering, at least in Western Europe. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 00:20:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15532 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:20:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68441C24824; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68441D01276; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f199.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.199]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6843VD01124 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:03:25 -0700 Received: from 64.123.15.229 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 04:03:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.123.15.229] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoulder Roll "tutorial" website-feedback please Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2002 04:03:25.0926 (UTC) FILETIME=[68DCF060:01C22634] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 04:03:25 +0000 Status: RO I have a bodice that's crying out for shoulder rolls. I was thinking I might try cotton flannel instead of felt... Mary/Katerine >Use a felt that's *not* made out of wool? Like a craft felt, maybe? >--sue > >Christine Wright wrote: > > > > > I like the notes on how to put it together, and have a quick question - > > do you think there is any another fabric I could substitute for the felt > > during construction? I am allergic to wool! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 00:30:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15583 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g684B4C25108; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684B1D03024; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684AbD02938 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:10:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m199.in-tch.com [216.166.191.199]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g683uvT06643 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D291211.50A03C75@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettle allergy References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> <3D290EC2.8030101@attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:16:17 -0600 Status: RO I dunno...I always got the impression that the raw stuff causes a reaction because of the spiny outer part (and perhaps sap?)....and that a fabric woven from nettles would be made from inner fibers, after some amount of processing. You'd probably have to take into account the possibly different chemical compositions of the different parts of the nettle plant, and factor in the changes that processing it would add. Maybe it's like poison ivy or oak, which bothers most of us somewhat, some of us severely, and a few not at all?? --maire, liberal arts major, and certainly no botanist Rose Amberwulf wrote: > > I hope this is not a silly question. What if someone is allergic to > nettles? Would nettle fabric cause the same reaction as the raw nettle? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 00:32:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15591 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:32:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g684G3C25302; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684G0D04158; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684FDD04012 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m199.in-tch.com [216.166.191.199]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6841YT07634 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:01:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D291326.80CE2081@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Free to a good home.....(first come, first serve ) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:20:54 -0600 Status: RO Hi, all. I've been doing some *serious* cleaning of my back bedroom, which is where I store all of my fabric bins, half-done projects, etc., and I've found an "orphan" pattern I'd like to give to someone who could put it to use.... It's an old Past Pattern's Edwardian Corset pattern, with pattern pieces for sizes 6? up through 22/24+. Probably had it for 16 years or so, and I have no idea why I acquired it, as I don't do anything that late, time-period wise. At any rate, if any of you are interested, email me off-list, and I'll make arrangements to snail-mail it to you. --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 00:38:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15628 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:38:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g684M4C25558; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684M0D05616; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684LWD05519 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:21:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020708042127.ERNN6023.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:21:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3D291345.8050104@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Costuming Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] 14th Century French lady Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 21:21:25 -0700 Status: RO I'm slowly working on my SCA 14th century French lady costumes. It dawn on me that I know I have to have the chemise, but was there any other underclothing - breast binding, underwear, so on. I hope someone can at least point me the right direction so I can be as complete as possible in my research. Thank you. Roscelin de Limoges Rose Amberwulf _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 00:40:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15649 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:40:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g684O1C25631; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684O0D06098; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684NqD06067 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020708042346.XWEM903.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:23:46 +0000 Message-ID: <003e01c22637$3f39bb00$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:23:44 -0700 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emma Elizabeth Lehman" <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets > I don't have _Corsets and Crinolines_, so I'm not sure what it does and > doesn't have, but one transitional corset that has always interested me is > styled like the 18th century conical corsets but is very short, midriff > length, made to be worn under high-waisted gowns. http://www.staylace.com/gallery/gallery07/graphics/1819.jpg This corset (on the left) actually comes from the book _Revolution in Fashion_ (an exhibition at the Kyoto Costume Institute), and is from 1790. It's exactly this shape that interests me -- I'm wondering how long it stayed around before the 1820's corset shape that you see on the right in that image. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 00:46:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15711 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:46:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g684U4C25856; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684U0D07422; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:30:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop1.greatbasin.net (pop1.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.3]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g684TcD07332 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:29:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c946283a (24-205-200-4.cs-dyn.charterpipeline.net [24.205.200.4]) by pop1.greatbasin.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g684TcIV024602 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:29:38 -0700 Message-ID: <02e701c22638$5a1a6ae0$6401a8c0@home.com> From: "Daniel Fenwick" To: References: <3D291345.8050104@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th Century French lady MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:31:33 -0700 Status: RO > I'm slowly working on my SCA 14th century French lady costumes. It > dawn on me that I know I have to have the chemise, but was there any > other underclothing - breast binding, underwear, so on. Apparently not. My lady also found that the sleeveless chemise gives better mobility in a tight gown/cote than the sleeved ones do. The support comes from the kirtle. Dan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 01:23:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15900 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:23:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68574C27340; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68570D15885; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6856dD15814 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:06:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11691 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:30:46 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? In-Reply-To: <3D290E81.92CCA76D@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:30:46 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 7 Jul 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Of course, there's also that fairy tale about the faithful sister > making seven nettle shirts for her brothers, who'd been turned into > swans....I know, I know, not exactly a *good* primary source, but I > find it interesting that something that sounds so fantastical as > making cloth from something as formidable and thorny as a nettle (in a > story from an oral tradition) actually may have been possible (also > makes me wonder how old that particular tale is...does anyone know? Is > it from the Grimm brothers? or maybe a Childe ballad?) The Wild Swans. Hans Christian Andersen did a version, but I believe he drew on an older story (unlike most of his works, which were original). The princess's eleven brothers are under an enchantment that turned them into swans, and to free them she must gather nettles and use them to make shirts for them. Reading that as a child was my first encounter with "nettles," so I too originally assumed that this was an unlikely material for clothmaking. Later I came to understand that the formidable nature of the task had to do with the way the princess had to gather and prepare the nettles -- picking them with her bare hands, and crushing the stems with her bare feet to get the flax. (Andersen is quite specific about this.) Also, only nettles from churchyards were acceptable, which means she had to go roaming through graveyards to gather them (leading to accusations that she was a witch). As I understand it now, an English schoolchild would have understood immediately where the difficulty lay, both because the use of nettles in textiles was common knowledge, and because English schoolchildren all knew nettles the way we in the States come to know poison ivy -- we're taught to identify it when quite young, and many of us don't reach adulthood without having an unfortunate encounter. But nettles don't grow in the States, at least nowhere I know of, so we aren't aware of their uses. And we don't learn to identify (and avoid) them. So I didn't recognize them, or even consider the possibility of their presence, as I tramped through a churchyard in the Cotswalds one summer day in 1985 or so, reading medieval grave markers. Moments after I swept a cluster of weeds away from a tombstone, my hand and arm started to burn and swell horribly. So I did what any American would do upon encountering poison ivy -- located a spigot and plunged my arm under running water. It didn't help. Not knowing whether medical attention would be needed, my traveling companion and I decided to seek help from a local. It was Sunday and the shops were closed. Then I came to a furnituremaker's shop and saw the owner working in a front room, and banged on the window. He seemed hugely amused at these two clueless Americans who didn't know what a common nettle looked like, much less what to do about it. First he asked me when I'd encountered the nettles, and predicted that within two hours I'd be perfectly fine. (He was right, but it was hard to believe at that moment, given the red welts covering my forearm.) Then he warned me that I should be very careful NOT to get it wet -- it would increase the pain. (Too late.) And then he brought me to his back garden, plucked a big handful of dockweed, and told me to rub it on my arm. By this time I was sure he was having fun pulling the tourist's leg, but he swore this was a natural remedy that every English child knows, and that he himself often used on his dog, who periodically romped through a nettle patch. (Later, others told me this was indeed common knowledge, and that English schoolmasters never fail to point out that the fact that dockweed grows near nettles is an example of Nature providing a remedy for her own ills). The furnituremaker -- a young fellow in his 30s -- also informed me that dockweed was related to cannibis. "You DO know cannibis, don't you?" he grinned. I still have trouble with the idea that the English *eat* nettles. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 01:37:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15929 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:37:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g685L4C27805; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g685L0D19180; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g685K3D18958 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.16f.102a5e5e (4570) for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:19:54 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: <16f.102a5e5e.2a5a7afa@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:19:54 EDT Status: RO I'll be going to Costumne College----and will be teaching the gold bullion/metal thread /pearl embroidery class on saturday morning:) Arriving friday late afternoon--leaving sunday by noon. I'll put a red H next to my name on my name badge---Kathryn Wolters----and would love to meet up for an h-costumne lunch. Hope to meet more of you there!! Albra/Kathryn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 01:47:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15950 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g685V4C28163; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g685V0D21324; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g685UsD21285 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:30:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11763 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:55:03 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th Century French lady In-Reply-To: <3D291345.8050104@attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:55:03 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 7 Jul 2002, Rose Amberwulf wrote: > I'm slowly working on my SCA 14th century French lady costumes. It > dawn on me that I know I have to have the chemise, but was there any > other underclothing - breast binding, underwear, so on. I have never found any solid indication of any underwear other than the chemise in this place and time. The only reference I've heard to breast bindings is one oft-quoted complaint from a cleric writing in (I think?) the 12th century, who may or may not be an accurate source on typical women's wear. I know of no written references to bust-support garments in the 14th century. At the same time, visual images abound that show nursing Madonnas or other half-dressed women who clearly are wearing only the chemise under their dress, so this is probably more likely to be the norm. >From a practical standpoint, I've found the fitted dress (kirtle, cotte) offers plenty of support, and in my experience would probably not work anywhere near as well in the fitting if there were another support garment underneath. As to underwear below the waist, I would not rule out the possibility of some wrapping or panty-style arrangement during the menstrual period (there are a few documentary references to "menstrual cloths"). But for normal wear, the norm and expectation seems to be that there was nothing under the chemise. In bawdy tales, women need only lift their dresses to allow their lovers swift access, or men take women by surprise by lifting their skirts. This image occurs in pictures as well as writing. Again, from a practical standpoint, it's a royal nuisance to use a toilet when you're wearing underwear beneath long, full skirts, and that nuisance would be compounded to near impossibility with a chamberpot. By contrast, without the encumbrance of underwear, chamberpot use in full skirts would be simple -- straddle and squat. Several times on this list, someone has brought up a particular English misericorde showing a woman donning what looks like boxer shorts. Given that many misericordes illustrate proverbs, and also that they often show role reversals or disruptions of the social order, I would be more inclined to see that as an illustration of an anomaly meant to be obviously ridiculous -- the woman "wearing the pants." Other than that particular image, the references to menstrual cloths, and a sealskin pad tied over the crotch of one of the Greenland corpses (which may have been for either incontinence or menstrual bleeding), I know of no visual or written evidence for 14th century female underwear. I'd love to hear something more solid if it's out there, but at this point I'd guess that even if some exception pops up, the vast majority of evidence still points to chemise-only as the norm. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 02:16:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24232 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 02:16:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68605C29190; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68601D27367; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from priv-edtnes16-hme0.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g685xAD27178 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from orb.telus.net ([64.180.169.220]) by priv-edtnes16-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.02 201-253-122-122-102-20011128) with ESMTP id <20020708055902.WWJN5909.priv-edtnes16-hme0.telusplanet.net@orb.telus.net> for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:59:02 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020707225807.009f8610@pop.telus.net> X-Sender: a6a21289@pop.telus.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: kris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettle allergy In-Reply-To: <3D291211.50A03C75@in-tch.com> References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> <3D290EC2.8030101@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:59:27 -0700 Status: RO I certainly haven't had any problems with nettle cloth. It's soft and cool, like linen (at least the kinds I've seen). Granted, I haven't ever worn something of it for a day, but I think that the process of making it into fabric takes away the stingers. kris At 10:16 PM 7/7/02 -0600, you wrote: >I dunno...I always got the impression that the raw stuff causes a >reaction because of the spiny outer part (and perhaps sap?)....and that >a fabric woven from nettles would be made from inner fibers, after some >amount of processing. You'd probably have to take into account the >possibly different chemical compositions of the different parts of the >nettle plant, and factor in the changes that processing it would add. >Maybe it's like poison ivy or oak, which bothers most of us somewhat, >some of us severely, and a few not at all?? >--maire, liberal arts major, and certainly no botanist > >Rose Amberwulf wrote: > > > > I hope this is not a silly question. What if someone is allergic to > > nettles? Would nettle fabric cause the same reaction as the raw nettle? >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 02:28:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA30133 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 02:28:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g686C4C29665; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g686C1D29695; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f29.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g686BoD29620 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:11:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:11:45 -0700 Received: from 68.6.212.114 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 06:11:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.6.212.114] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2002 06:11:45.0222 (UTC) FILETIME=[56004660:01C22646] Subject: [h-cost] Costume College? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 06:11:44 +0000 Status: RO Thanks for asking about this! I had not heard of this before, but am going to plan on going next summer. I hope you and anyone else going has a wonderful time this year. Please report back and let us know how it was. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 03:39:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21737 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 03:39:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g687N5C01887; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g687N1D14051; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g687MwD14036 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:22:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id AAA26944 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:42:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207080742.AAA26944@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Robin says: >But nettles don't grow in the States, at least nowhere I know of, so we >aren't aware of their uses. Oh, they certainly grow here on the west coast. And I seem to remember them growing in big, evil patches when we lived in Illinois. Where do you live? Gah, in fact, we must go do battle with the nettles in the backyard again. They keep trying to grow into bushes. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 04:07:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14327 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:07:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g687p4C02466; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:51:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g687p1D19500; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g687odD19445 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:50:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtnhd.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.222.45] helo=[199.174.222.89]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17RTI6-0008RG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 03:50:38 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D291211.50A03C75@in-tch.com> References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> <3D290EC2.8030101@attbi.com> <3D291211.50A03C75@in-tch.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Nettle allergy Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:49:01 -0700 Status: RO At 10:16 PM -0600 7/7/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >I dunno...I always got the impression that the raw stuff causes a >reaction because of the spiny outer part (and perhaps sap?)...[snip] > >Maybe it's like poison ivy or oak, which bothers most of us somewhat, >some of us severely, and a few not at all?? Nope. Specialized stinging hairs all over the plant. They actually work like miniature hypodermic needles to inject an irritant under the skin. Strictly speaking it's not an "allergy," since it gets virtually everyone who touches the plant -- even through blue jeans on occasion, as I can testify from personal experience. In bad cases nettle stings can even raise blisters. Legend has it that if you grasp the nettle plant FIRMLY it won't sting you, presumably because you have crushed the stinging cells before they get you, but I don't know anyone who has managed to achieve this. Young, tender nettle plants, BTW, are quite edible (you gather them with rubber gloves on) when steamed like spinach, and heat inactivates the irritant. Presumably the fact that they sting makes them less attractive to animals like cows and horses, which don't cook :) The fibers are well inside the plant and aren't affected at all. At 12:30 AM -0500 7/8/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >But nettles don't grow in the States, at least nowhere I know of, so we >aren't aware of their uses. And we don't learn to identify (and avoid) >them. Actually they do, in the east, northeast and southern parts of the country. They tend to grow in thickets, in rich damp soil and sometimes in disturbed areas if there's enough moisture. They're pretty nondescript, so you wouldn't see them unless you were looking for them, especially since they have tiny inconspicuous greenish flowers. My own encounters with them were in Indiana and Ohio. >...[snip]... >The furnituremaker -- a young fellow in his 30s -- also informed me that >dockweed was related to cannibis. "You DO know cannibis, don't you?" he >grinned. Um, he got it slightly backwards. The _nettle_ family and the Cannabis family are next-door neighbors, with the closest relatives to both of them being the elm and mulberry families. Dock, OTOH, is off in a different sublcass of the flowering plants, related to carnations, cactus, and beets. Dock and Cannabis _could_ be more unrelated and both still be flowering plants, but it would be a little difficult. >I still have trouble with the idea that the English *eat* nettles. Think of it as revenge :) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris "why, yes, I DO have a botany degree" Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 05:28:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25735 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:28:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g689C5C05164; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 03:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g689C1D05436; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 03:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f112.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.112]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g689BLD05203 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 03:11:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 02:11:15 -0700 Received: from 12.232.52.91 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:11:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.232.52.91] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2002 09:11:15.0733 (UTC) FILETIME=[69B9D450:01C2265F] Subject: [h-cost] Puurple Feathers was: Planche Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 02:11:12 -0700 Status: RO Apologies if this has already been brought up (I'm still catching up on my h-costume reading from the week :} ) but the article you mentioned (and mentioned having difficulty finding) is available on the web: The Problem of Ruritanian Purple Feathers An Essay on Documentation http://www.dreamworker-magazine.com/frontpage/purplefeathers.html Hope this helps. :) I was curious, so I'd typed it into Google to look for references, and I was surprised to find the *actual* article available. -Laura _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 06:12:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26358 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:12:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g689u4C06198; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 03:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g689u1D11486; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 03:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f207.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g689teD11416 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 03:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 02:55:35 -0700 Received: from 12.232.52.91 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:55:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.232.52.91] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2002 09:55:35.0084 (UTC) FILETIME=[9AD296C0:01C22665] Subject: [h-cost] Nettles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 02:55:34 -0700 Status: RO Alright... A few ramblings on nettles, from what I remember of my time in Germany. Where we were living (south of Munich), nettles grew as weeds only, and so I would assume that this would make them a cheap, easy to find alternative to flax. I know that there are two types (or more) of nettles, and that there are stinging, and non-stinging varieties. What's more, in the case of the type of nettles that grew by our house, the plant no longer stung after flowering. (I actually remember as a child, going up and pushing a leaf aside to get a better view of a pretty white flower, and then realizing it was a nettle and that it had *not* stung me...) And one last bit of memory that's filtering to the surface (source unknown) is that nettle stems were soaked (in water? something elselike an acidic agent?), beaten, soaked again, and then prepared much like flax. I don't know if this helps... Anyone have any further input? :) -Laura _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 06:23:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26478 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:23:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68A74C06606; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68A71D13611; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68A6fD13555 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-121-25.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.25]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIB93536; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:06:29 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <019c01c22668$43ec2940$19794ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:14:32 +0100 Status: RO >I know that there are two types (or more) of nettles, and that there are stinging, and non-stinging varieties. Which are unrelated >What's more, in the case of the type of nettles that grew by our house, the plant no longer stung after flowering. This is not true of any stinging nettle I have ever know unfortunatly :( After rain they don't sting as the acid is washed off. And it is after rain one harvests them for cloth manufacture. >And one last bit of memory that's filtering to the surface (source unknown) is that nettle stems were soaked (in water? something elselike an acidic agent?), beaten, soaked again, and then prepared much like flax. Yes preperation is much like flax, with soaking & beating Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 06:26:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26489 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:26:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68AA5C06740; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68AA1D14225; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68A9ZD14159 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:09:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g68A9Vk90347; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:09:31 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200207081009.g68A9Vk90347@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:09:31 BST Status: RO Kala Jathos wrote : > I know that there are two types (or more) of nettles, and that there > are stinging, and non-stinging varieties. > > What's more, in the case of the type of nettles that grew by our house, the > plant no longer stung after flowering. (I actually remember as a child, > going up and pushing a leaf aside to get a better view of a pretty white > flower, and then realizing it was a nettle and that it had *not* stung > me...) Stinging nettles have tiny green flowers, and they *do* sting at any time. (well, very young leaves don't, but the rest of the plant will) The ones with white flowers are "dead nettles", and while the leaf shape looks similar, I gather they're not related. The stem shape is different: very square stem on a dead nettle, as far as I remmeber (don't have any growing in the office, though I might go looking lunchtime). And no, they don't sting. The story about "nettles in flower don't sting" was actually an important lesson in Growing Up for me. Aged about 6 or so: a nice man told the little girl this thing about how if a nettle has flowers on, it's safe to touch. He thought he was being helpful. I knew perfectly well what nettle flowers looked like (green), knew the difference between a dead nettle and a stinging nettle, and nevertheless believed what he said, because he was an adult. Tests (and badly stung hands) proved that he had been misleading. Stinging nettles sting. Important lesson learnt: adults can be wrong, too. Quick Google search... stinging nettle is Urtica dioica (and found lots of herbalism pages on what to do with it) Dead neetle is Lamium album. Nice picture here: http://www.purplesage.org.uk/profiles/whitedeadnettle.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 06:33:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26506 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:33:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68AH4C06945; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68AH0D15624; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68AGnD15589 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:16:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip158.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.158]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CE8B710F2F6 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009701c22668$5bb2bd50$9e614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost> <3D28FBAA.FE5FA8D4@dandy.net> <3D290E81.92CCA76D@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:14:52 -0400 Status: RO Brothers Grimm. I still have the book, or my sister has it, somewhere. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:01 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? > Of course, there's also that fairy tale about the faithful sister making > seven nettle shirts for her brothers, who'd been turned into swans....I > know, I know, not exactly a *good* primary source, but I find it > interesting that something that sounds so fantastical as making cloth > from something as formidable and thorny as a nettle (in a story from an > oral tradition) actually may have been possible (also makes me wonder > how old that particular tale is...does anyone know? Is it from the Grimm > brothers? or maybe a Childe ballad?) > --Sue, rambling rather than getting ready for bed ;-D > > leigh tartaglio wrote: > > > > Hi, All. I have used nettle for various things, none of which has come close to > > the h-cost standard for content (nettle beer, salads and an attempt at cheese > > preservation), but I was reading some material a while back that noted that in > > the deteriorating economy of late WWI Germany, shirts for soldiers were being > > made from nettle fabric. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 07:03:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26583 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:03:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Ak4C07745; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Ak0D21075; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Aj4D20851 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sandy (ppp-22.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.56.253.22]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g68AivOW031318 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:44:59 +1000 Message-Id: <200207081044.g68AivOW031318@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Frojel Gotlandica" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2380) For Windows 2000 (5.0.2195;2) In-Reply-To: <3D291211.50A03C75@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettle allergy You asked X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g68Aj4D20851 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Frojel Gotlandica" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 20:44:58 +1000 Status: RO Here is what Info I have on nettles in my data base. Certainly not complete but it will give you the general idea. Hope it helps. Sandy Nettle was cultivated in Scotland for the fibers in the stalks, to make a durable linen-like cloth. This use goes back to the Bronze Age. The very name Nettle comes from words meaning 'textile plant.'Nettle was popular as an agent that, by irritating the skin of an inflamed area, caused increased blood flow to the area, thereby reducing the inflammation. In Scotland, victims of gout and rheumatism allowed themselves to be scourged with Nettle in the dubious belief that this would alleviate their sufferings. Nettle neutralizes uric acid, prevents its crystallization aiding in its elimination from the system, thus relieving gout and arthritis. Nettle as an astringent helps to stop bleeding. The Nettle 'sting' is from histamine and formic acid in the hairs that trigger allergic response. Nettle is good to use for anemic children as a tea, due to its nutritive value as an herb and its high in iron, silicon and potassium. Nettle is an alkalizing herb and is useful as a rich source of minerals. Nettle aids with diarrhea and dysentery and is good for inflammatory skin conditions. Nettle increases the flow of urine, shrinks inflamed tissues, helps blood circulation and purifies the blood. Nettle is a most excellent remedy for dandruff and will bring back the natural color of hair. Nettle helps to reduce menses flow and it can also be used as a tincture for hypothyroid conditions to increase thyroid function. Nettle it also cleanses the digestive tract and helps with stomach problems. Nettle functions much like a mild Cayenne by opening the vessels, thus increasing circulation and uplifting a weary body relieving fatigue and exhaustion. Nettle can alleviate allergic symptoms such as teary eyes and a runny nose. NOTE: This herb is beneficial during pregnancy. It is a mineral rich nutritive herb with vitamin K to guard against excessive bleeding. It improves kidney function and helps prevent hemorrhoids. A plant of the genus Urtica, covered with minute sharp hairs containing a poison that produces a stinging sensation. Urtica gracitis is common in the Northern, and U. cham[ae]dryoides in the Southern, United States. the common European species, U. urens and U. dioica, are also found in the Eastern united States. U. pilulifera is the Roman nettle of England. Nettle \Net"tle\, n. [AS. netele; akin to D. netel, G. nessel, OHG. nezz["i]la, nazza, Dan. nelde, n["a]lde, Sw. n["a]ssla; cf, Lith. notere.] (Bot.) A plant of the genus Urtica, covered with minute sharp hairs containing a poison that produces a stinging sensation. Urtica gracitis is common in the Northern, and U. cham[ae]dryoides in the Southern, United States. the common European species, U. urens and U. dioica, are also found in the Eastern united States. U. pilulifera is the Roman nettle of England. Nicholas Culpepper (17th century astrologer-physician) " The roots or leaves, or the juice of them, boiled and made into an electuary with honey and sugar, is a safe and sure medicine to open the passages of the lungs, which is the cause of wheezing and shortness of the breath. It helps to expectorate phlegm and to raise the imposthumed pleurisy. As a gargle it helps the swelling of the mouth and throat. A decoction of the leaves provokes the courses and urine and expels gravel and stone. It kills worms in children, eases pain in the sides and dissolves wind in the spleen. The seed taken as a drink is remedy against the bites of dogs and the poisinous qualities of Hemlock, Henbane, Nightshade and Mandrake. The bruised seed or leaves put into the nostrils takes away the polypus. The juice of the leaves or a decoction of the root is used as a wash for fistulas and gangrenes and for corroding scabs or itch." Stinging nettle is difficult to harvest, but has a wealth of uses. When the Romans invaded Europe and Britain, they brought nettles with them, believing they would need them to beat themselves to keep warm. They were also used in this way on areas affected by arthritis or rheumatism. (1) The young leaves may be eaten as a "green, leafy vegetable" and are a good source of minerals. (1,2) The fibers from the stalks were used to make a very fine soft cloth, rope, fishing nets and whatever else needed to be sewn before flax and hemp came along. Slightly more difficult to harvest than flax it does however make a comparable soft fine cloth and is treated in the same manner to seperate the fibres then spun and woven. Formic acid and histamine cause the characteristic sting from the common nettle. (1) The juice from the plant is one of the remedies to counteract the sting. Yellowdock or curly dock can also be used to antidote the sting as can rosemary, mint and sage. (2) Regular toothpaste may also help neutralize the formic acid. Why is the nettle such an important medicinal herb if it is so difficult to harvest? It is very good at gathering minerals from the ground, which are much needed to treat many imbalances in the body. Nettles contain acetylcholine, calcium, chlorine, chlorophyll, formic acid, glucoquinones, histamine, iodine, iron, magnesium, potassium, serotonin, silicon, sulfur, tannin, and vitamins A, B, C and K (1,3,4)) They have a cooling energy, and are drying and astringent. (1) The aerial parts may be used as an astringent, diuretic, expectorant, hemostatic (stop bleeding), circulatory stimulant, nutritive tonic, improve milk flow for nursing, lower blood sugar levels, treat gout and arthritis, and prevent scurvy. (1,3) The combination of iron and vitamin C is useful in treating anemia, because the vitamin C improves iron absorption from the GI tract. (1) When boiled, they have also been used as a green dye. (2) The root is used in combination with other herbs such as saw palmetto and pygeum to relieve symptoms of benign prostatic hypertrophy (BPH). It has also been used as a conditioner for dandruff and hair loss. (1) When mixed with salt and boiled it produces a yellow dye. (2) Nettles are also helpful in relieving the symptoms of hayfever and other allergic reactions that produce increased congestion in the sinuses. (3) The mineral content makes nettles helpful for goiter, osteoporosis, muscle cramps, high blood pressure and malabsorption syndrome. Almost any condition that requires improved mineral balance will benefit from nettles. Nettles may be used as a tea, tincture, compress, in ointment or powdered, depending on the area of use. The root may be tinctured or simmered in water to make a decoction. The young sprouts in spring may be prepared as a vegetable or added to soup. A type of beer was made with the young sprouts in earlier times. (2) A recipe for Nettle Pudding and Nettle Beer may be found in our Recipes section. A cup or two of nettle tea drunk daily will help with gout, rheumatism, eczema, milk production, and heavy menstrual or other internal bleeding. (1) An infusion of nettles and red clover, mixed in equal proportions, helps cleanse the blood and is useful in treating acne. A compress soaked in nettle tea may be applied to arthritic joints, tendinitis, sprains and sciatica to relieve pain. Because of its astringency, nettles may be made into an ointment for hemorrhoids or the tea may be used in a sitz bath. Powdered nettle leaves may be inhaled like snuff to stop nosebleeds. The juice from the whole fresh plant may be used to antidote the sting and as a tonic for debilitated conditions or for a weak heart with fluid retention. (1) Maude Grieve offers a recipe for Nettle Hair Tonic: "Simmer a handful of young Nettles in a quart of water for 2 hours, strain and bottle when cold. Well saturate the scalp with the lotion every other night. This prevents the hair from falling and renders it soft and glossy." (2) The root may be used similarly. Although nettles have no known side effects, there are some potential interactions to be aware of with certain prescription medications. Because of its vitamin K content, it has the potential to decrease the effectiveness of blood-thinning medications. It may increase the effectiveness is diuretics and medications that lower blood pressure. This should be watched in very elderly people who are more likely to lose their balance easily when blood pressure is too low. Nettles may also increase the effectiveness of anti-diabetic drugs commonly used in adult-onset diabetes. It has a hypoglycemic effect of its own. Nettles may still be used in any of these conditions, but a consistent daily amount should be taken to allow for adjustments in medications if necessary. Stinging nettle is truly a useful herb even if it is a pain to pick. It is one of the best sources of minerals and has a wide variety of uses. It may even be considered a food when picked in the spring. Of course, don’t forget your gloves. Fr”jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. http://www.frojel.com/ frojel@frojel.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 07:23:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26655 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:23:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68B74C08465; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68B70D25117; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68B68D24958 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJUNSW85XC00PKNS@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:05:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJUNS43TU000OXSX@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:58:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:54:57 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:54:54 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:54:51 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) In-reply-to: <200207081008.g68A86D13856@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:54:50 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > As I understand it now, an English schoolchild would have > understood immediately where the difficulty lay, both because the > use of nettles in textiles was common knowledge, Not that common - I had no idea they were used for textiles until I had been involved in historic costuming for some time. > and because English schoolchildren all knew nettles the way we in > the States come to know poison ivy -- we're taught to identify it > when quite young, and many of us don't reach adulthood without > having an unfortunate encounter. Ain't that the truth. We had nettles in our garden, and they grow wild all over the place. Most English children learn to avoid nettles, (or recognize dock-leaves which can be rubbed on as a remedy to the nettle-rash) at a fairly early age - right Jane, Mel? Of course, the non-stingng variety looks so similar (appart from the flowers being whiter/less green, I think) that it's best to avoid all varieties than take a chance on the one you see being a no-stinging type. Worse, bith varieties can grow close-togehter so you may think you're safe and get stung anyway - I've been caught out that way. I once fell into a patch of nettles when playing with a group of other children and emerged unharmed so thought I was safe to take a short cut through the nettlepatch a little later and my legs were a mass of nettle rash from the stinging nettles in among the harmless ones. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 07:35:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26707 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:35:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68BJ4C08687; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68BJ1D27339; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01bw.bigpond.com (mta01bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.78]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68BHwD27175 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.69]) by mta01bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta01bw May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id GYXGPO00.5CW for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:17:49 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.17 ([203.54.114.17]) by bwmam01.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 2/786529); 08 Jul 2002 21:17:41 Message-ID: <3D2A64D1.DA1A6C49@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles References: <200207081009.g68A9Vk90347@bart.nildram.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 21:21:37 -0700 Status: RO jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > Kala Jathos wrote : > > > I know that there are two types (or more) of nettles, and that there > > are stinging, and non-stinging varieties. > > > > What's more, in the case of the type of nettles that grew by our house, the > > plant no longer stung after flowering. (I actually remember as a child, > > going up and pushing a leaf aside to get a better view of a pretty white > > flower, and then realizing it was a nettle and that it had *not* stung > > me...) > > Stinging nettles have tiny green flowers, and they *do* sting at any time. (well, very young leaves don't, but the rest of the plant will) > > The ones with white flowers are "dead nettles", and while the leaf shape looks similar, I gather they're not related. The stem shape is different: very square stem on a dead nettle, as far as I remmeber (don't have any growing in the office, though I might go looking lunchtime). And no, they don't sting. > I knew about white nettles when I was a kiddie too. They seem to grow here (in Australia) but I've never seen the stinging variety (though it's a bit hard to tell when they're not flowering and I'm not game to touch and see). Maybe I'll have a look at stem shape next time I see some. A little more on topic I used to cringe in horror when I read about the girl making shirts from nettles..... Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 07:48:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26764 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:48:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68BW4C09041; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68BW1D29694; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68BVuD29673 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb05la (unverified [10.1.200.108]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:28:14 -0700 thread-index: AcImcoytqM++AnH7R2aKqaNziN4gbA== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Nettle allergy You asked From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettle allergy You asked Message-ID: <03b701c22672$8cade8d0$6cc8010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03B8_01C22637.E04F10D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:28:14 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03B8_01C22637.E04F10D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I get eczema on my hands occasionally. If nettles are in season I go and run my hands through the tops of the nettle patch - agony for about 20 minutes, settle down to a slow burn, and after an hour or so the rash has gone and it's taken the heat out of the eczema. It also works for various allergic rashes I get to various things. Strange but true. It's also very effective for cold sores and chilblains, but I don't get these. Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_03B8_01C22637.E04F10D0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I get eczema on my hands occasionally. If nettles are in season I go and run my hands through the tops of the nettle patch - agony for about 20 minutes, settle down to a slow burn, and after an hour or so the rash has gone and it's taken the heat out of the eczema. It also works for various allergic rashes I get to various things.

Strange but true.

It's also very effective for cold sores and chilblains, but I don't get these.

Freyalyn

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has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_03B8_01C22637.E04F10D0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 07:54:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26836 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Bc4C09212; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Bc0D01085; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68BbmD01043 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:37:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-63.208.31.241.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [63.208.31.241]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g68BblL413160 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:37:47 -0400 Message-ID: <009a01c22674$19234980$f11fd03f@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <3D271336.18095.A319E@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruritanian Purople Feathers [was Planche] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:39:17 -0400 Status: RO The pictures can also be helpful for realizing you've gotten a slightly better handle on seeing the differences between them when you don't look the article for a few years.;-) Moira > > This has the text, but does not have the drawings which go with it. > The drawings are very helpful in understanding what is being > discussed in the article. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 08:02:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26928 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:02:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Bk4C09481; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Bk1D02699; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68BjOD02546 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-123-211.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.123.211]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIC00600; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:45:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <024c01c22676$0f0e7f80$19794ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:53:20 +0100 Status: RO >at a fairly early age - right Jane, Mel? Too right >Of course, the non-stingng variety looks so similar (appart from the flowers being whiter/less green, I think) you townie Teddy ;) The leaves have only a very passing resemblance :) The dead nettles are softer shape than stingers a completly different green and shorter, much shorter. You suck the nectar out of the white flowers > a little later and my legs were a mass of nettle rash from the stinging nettles in among the harmless ones. Are you sure it hadn't rained the first time ? It is rare to see patches of dead nettles at least in the midlands ! Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 08:14:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27013 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:14:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Bw4C09849; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Bw0D04956; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68BvQD04780 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:57:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11381.; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:58:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:57:19 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g68BvQD04780 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:56:54 +0100 Status: RO Teddy wrote: >> As I understand it now, an English schoolchild would have >> understood immediately where the difficulty lay, both because the >> use of nettles in textiles was common knowledge, >Not that common - I had no idea they were used for textiles until I >had been involved in historic costuming for some time. I didn't know either until we were shown nettle fibres during a Field Studies Council course on the uses of wild plants. >Of course, the non-stingng variety looks so similar (appart from the >flowers being whiter/less green, I think) that it's best to avoid all >varieties than take a chance on the one you see being a no-stinging >type. Actually the flowers are quite different; stinging nettles have dangling strings of tiny green ones, deadnettle flowers grow close to the stem and have a distinctive shape with a curved hood. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 08:17:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27027 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:17:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68C12C09991; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68C11D05651; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68C0VD05561 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:00:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11611.; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:01:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:00:25 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g68C0VD05561 Subject: [h-cost] Frontier House on UK TV Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:00:21 +0100 Status: RO Since "Frontier House" was discussed after its US airing, I thought I would mention that it is now being shown on UK's Channel 4 on Sunday evenings. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 08:19:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27034 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:19:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68C31C10084; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68C30D06070; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68C2SD05934 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g68C2QJU016123 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:02:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: <003501c2260a$29d8fcd0$befc8218@WERNTO> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sun, 7 Jul 2002, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > One last post from me! > > Lately I've been pondering corsets of the 1790's lately, and wondering when > the change from the traditionally 18th century shape (cone) gave way to the > Regency ("lift and spread") shape in Europe and the U.S. I know we've all > moved past the idea that women just stopped wearing ANY corset in the > 1790's-1810's, but when did corsets start to change? Hi, Kendra, Coincidentally, I've been working on making a set of stays that are supposed to be dated between 1795 and 1810. They were discussed at one of the Tidy's Symposiums a few years back, and a friend of mine was kind enough to loan me a copy of the proceedings. These stays are definitely transitional -- they're mostly shaped like short-waisted late 18th c. stays (unboned tabs), but with a high waist and boning mostly at the center front, center back, and possibly the long angled side seam. These stays are interesting because they've got a single bust gusset inserted in the front. I'm making these up because I really don't like the idea of the long-line Regency stays (a la Mantua Makers) which come over the hip -- I'd really rather have my hips free. We'll see how it works. Last year I made a set of stays like a set in Waugh's _Corsets and Crinolines_ -- again, from the late 18th c., with unboned tabs and very light boning, but no fabric bust gusset inserted. The center front has a laced section that can be let out to act as a gusset, instead. They worked pretty well, but then I'm not very busty. I can wear my 18th c. stays under my Regency gowns and get a moderately ok result -- I don't get the Jennifer Ehle effect, but then I wouldn't in any case . > It seems that even as late as 1795, you still see dresses that were > obviously robe a l'anglaises recut with a higher waistline to fit the new > style. At the same time, some of the early Directoire dresses (the gathered > chemise dresses) have linen under-bodices which may have supported the > breasts without need for a corset. However, I question the idea that > someone who spent her whole life in corsets would suddenly feel comfortable > going without that kind of structure. This all leads me to think that most > women must have, for at least some time, worn 18th century-shaped corsets > under their early Directoire gowns -- especially as French fashions filtered > out to other countries. I suspect you're probably right -- older women, at least, might have been more likely to stick with styles of undergarments that they were used to in their youth. > Can anyone point me to any other sources that might help me fill in the gaps > between 1790 and 1820? Does _Corsets & Crinolines_ touch on this era? > > Thanks! > > - Kendra I can't remember which page the one I made last year is on, but yes, there's a set in there that more or less fits the bill. I'm hoping that this new pair, with the bust gussets inserted, will look more like the ones in this picture: http://www.songsmyth.com/plates/1824corset.jpg It's interesting that this plate (you can see the caption here: http://www.songsmyth.com/underthings.html ) dates from 1824, which overlaps the date at which the other style of corset (seen higher up on the page) seems to have come into vogue. So it seems like there must have been some overlap. Interestingly, there's a paper on "The Unfashionable Use of Stays" that talks about how older country women in Britain were wearing stays with wooden busks into the beginning of the 20th century, I think -- again, women sticking with styles they wore in their youth, even though the outer clothing styles may have changed somewhat. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 08:29:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27087 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:29:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68CD4C10398; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68CD0D07974; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68CC8D07853 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g68CC7JU017002 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:12:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Ah... that's an illustration from 'Revolution in Fashion', a nearly unobtainable book. Very much like the corset in Waugh; I wish one could see the front... -- Mara On Sun, 7 Jul 2002, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > aha! I found it! Kind of. > > Direct link to the image: > http://www.staylace.com/gallery/gallery07/graphics/1819.jpg > > Looking again, I think my remembered interpretation isn't entirely > correct, but now you can see and decide for yourselves. > > Emma > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 08:59:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31341 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:59:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Ch4C11689; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Ch1D13990; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68CgVD13890 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.7e.2a20ce85 (3948) for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:42:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <7e.2a20ce85.2a5ae2aa@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7e.2a20ce85.2a5ae2aa_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Robin's nettle encounter Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:42:18 EDT Status: RO --part1_7e.2a20ce85.2a5ae2aa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<...he swore [dockweed] was a natural remedy that every English child knows, and that he himself often used on his dog, who periodically romped through a nettle patch. (Later, others told me this was indeed common knowledge, and that English schoolmasters never fail to point out that the fact that dockweed grows near nettles is an example of Nature providing a remedy for her own ills).>> That's fascinating to me, because I have only studied American herbs and herbal remedies. My sole knowledge of nettles is from Disney's "Bedknobs & Broomsticks"; the English stew them as vegetables. --Gillian --part1_7e.2a20ce85.2a5ae2aa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<...he swore [dockweed] was a
natural remedy that every English child knows, and that he himself often
used on his dog, who periodically romped through a nettle patch. (Later,
others told me this was indeed common knowledge, and that English
schoolmasters never fail to point out that the fact that dockweed grows
near nettles is an example of Nature providing a remedy for her own ills).>>


That's fascinating to me, because I have only studied American herbs and herbal remedies.  My sole knowledge of nettles is from Disney's "Bedknobs & Broomsticks"; the English stew them as vegetables.

--Gillian

 --part1_7e.2a20ce85.2a5ae2aa_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 09:21:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31540 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:21:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68D55C12808; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68D51D19156; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68D40D18881 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJUS6HSB2800PKNS@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:03:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJUS6GHBIO00TEME@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:03:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:00:16 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:00:06 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:59:58 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) In-reply-to: <200207081204.g68C45D06343@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:59:57 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > >Of course, the non-stingng variety looks so similar (appart from the > flowers being whiter/less green, I think) > > you townie Teddy ;) Huh! Half and half, thank's *very* much, Mel.... I grew up on the outer edge of a fairly small town, within a few minutes walk of open downland. > The leaves have only a very passing resemblance :) The dead nettles > are softer shape than stingers a completly different green and > shorter, much shorter. You suck the nectar out of the white flowers Close enough for me to mistake them - besides, no-one realized I needed glasses until I was eleven. Details were often difficult to make out until my nose was within stinging range... > > a little later and my legs were a mass of nettle rash from the > > stinging nettles in among the harmless ones. > > Are you sure it hadn't rained the first time ? Pretty sure I just didn't fall as far into the nettles as I later ran while taking the shortcut, the ones by the path must have all been dead- nettles (or the few stinging nettles were crused before they could sting me and/or the dead nettles prevented them from making contact....) It was only about a half-hour later that I tried the shortcut. > It is rare to see patches of dead nettles at least in the midlands > ! I don;'t recall them being that common in Bedfordshire either, the stinging variety I tend to remember better, however... I wonder why that should be?.... Teddy (taking a brief break from a *mountain* of cataloguing while I'm filling in on a different site.... Enjoying the break while it lasts, nearly a week off sick will have rendered the waiting mountain of books even larger.... Aaaaaargh!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 09:31:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31628 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:31:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68DF4C13225; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DF1D21837; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DE7D21566 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-125-130.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.125.130]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIC06250; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:13:55 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <036201c22682$73499000$19794ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Robin's nettle encounter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_035F_01C2268A.D43B65C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:22:02 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_035F_01C2268A.D43B65C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >the English stew them as vegetables. Not very often these days :) Mel ------=_NextPart_000_035F_01C2268A.D43B65C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>the English stew them as=20 vegetables.
 
Not very often these days = :)
 
Mel
------=_NextPart_000_035F_01C2268A.D43B65C0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 09:32:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31633 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:32:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68DFCC13235; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DFBD21866; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DEeD21719 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:14:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a242.in-tch.com [66.62.107.42]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g68D11T03769 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D299193.7B611D20@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Free to a good home.....(first come, first serve ) References: <3D291326.80CE2081@in-tch.com> <00b601c22638$0e47dd50$31baee0c@c59303b> <3D2917B0.9A28D37F@in-tch.com> <00c501c22639$0a07f440$31baee0c@c59303b> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 07:20:19 -0600 Status: RO Thanks to everyone volunteering to give my pattern a good home. It's gone now! --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 09:35:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31693 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:35:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68DJ2C13565; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DJ1D22929; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DIWD22834 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-125-130.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.125.130]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIC06480; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:18:21 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <036801c22683$11ff23e0$19794ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:26:29 +0100 Status: RO >Huh! Half and half, thank's *very* much, Mel.... I grew up on the outer edge of a fairly small town, within a few minutes walk of open downland. Sorry couldn't resist :0) >, no-one realized I needed glasses until I was eleven. Ah well that makes a differance, girls know the differance (8 & 5 now) > Pretty sure I just didn't fall as far into the nettles as I later ran while taking the shortcut, the ones by the path must have all been dead- Yes dead nettle are common near paths > I don;'t recall them being that common in Bedfordshire either, the stinging variety I tend to remember better, however... I wonder why that should be?.... cause they hurt !!! No I meant they are fairly common but not in the same place as stingers, probably because their needs differ. Stingers I think also take over from them if I recall Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 09:35:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31699 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:35:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68DJ8C13576; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DJ4D22954; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DIjD22878 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.41.1fc1cb09 (3948) for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:18:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <41.1fc1cb09.2a5aeb22@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_41.1fc1cb09.2a5aeb22_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] nettles-- correcting myself Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:18:26 EDT Status: RO --part1_41.1fc1cb09.2a5aeb22_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I take that back! I have read about nettles in my American herbs studies -- dead ones, anyway. I just knew them as "Archangel". I still don't remember studying stinging nettles, but it has been awhile... In either case, I wouldn't dare a cloth made of the stuff with my allergies to linen, wool, mohair, etc. I might sew it for other people, if asked, but never wear it. --Gillian, who just got a rash on both forearms because her client didn't prewash his linen before giving it to her to sew into tunics. --part1_41.1fc1cb09.2a5aeb22_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I take that back!  I have read about nettles in my American herbs studies -- dead ones, anyway.  I just knew them as "Archangel".  I still don't remember studying stinging nettles, but it has been awhile...

In either case, I wouldn't dare a cloth made of the stuff with my allergies to linen, wool, mohair, etc.  I might sew it for other people, if asked, but never wear it.

--Gillian,
who just got a rash on both forearms because her client didn't prewash his linen before giving it to her to sew into tunics. --part1_41.1fc1cb09.2a5aeb22_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 09:44:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31734 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:44:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68DS6C13935; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DS0D25368; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DR1D25125 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJUSYWKIQ800CBM1@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:26:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJUSYSQHLA00TEME@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:26:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:23:06 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:23:00 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:22:55 +1100 From: Teddy To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity 5958 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:22:54 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Anyone used Simplicity pattern 5958? if so, can you let me know what you think of it as a startign point for the frock-coat long waistcoat combination? Ta muchly Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 09:45:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31743 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:45:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68DT6C13984; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DT1D25647; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DSZD25528 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g68DSVJ92845; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:28:31 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200207081328.g68DSVJ92845@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:28:31 BST Status: RO Teddy wrote : > > >Of course, the non-stingng variety looks so similar (appart from the > > flowers being whiter/less green, I think) > > > > you townie Teddy ;) > > Huh! Half and half, thank's *very* much, Mel.... I grew up on > the outer edge of a fairly small town, within a few minutes walk of > open downland. You know what's really weird? I grew up on a different outer edge of the same small town (well, if you count Luton/Dunstable as the same place, and as small). > Close enough for me to mistake them - besides, no-one realized I > needed glasses until I was eleven. Snap.... I'm getting worried. I am *NOT* a clone of Teddy. OK, if you averaged us out you'd get a normal-width person of normal costume-making ability, but.... > I don;'t recall them [dead nettles] being that common in Bedfordshire either, Common in our garden, for some reason. No stingers there, though. And acres of both, mixed, in Bedford Priory Park at the moment. (If anyone wants to try making the fibre and the cloth, I can get you the raw materials by the ton!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 09:48:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31767 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:48:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68DW2C14154; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DW0D26562; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DV5D26287 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a242.in-tch.com [66.62.107.42]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g68DHPT07291 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:17:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D29956D.3D4F04A7@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of weeds.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 07:36:45 -0600 Status: RO Speaking of using plants we may often consider weeds, some friends of mine, who are into natural dyeing, have discovered that you can get really nifty shades of green using tansy or knapweed (whole plant, no root in both cases), both of which are ubiquitous around here (Montana has a bad problem with these and other "noxious weeds."). You even get a really decent darker green if you do an iron bath on the fibers after the dyeing. I've just seen the results on wool and silk fibers (the wool definitely took the dye more strongly), although they apparently played with some linen threads as well. No idea how colorfast it is, but now I'm sure wishing I could find some white wool *fabric.*....*sigh* ;-) --sue, who's also discovered you get a really good, screaming yellow using dandelion flowers, which makes an eye-popping bright green when you overdye it with indigo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 09:57:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31828 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Df4C14563; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Df1D29098; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DeCD28813 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13651 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:04:23 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Nettle allergy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:04:23 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Chris Laning wrote: > At 12:30 AM -0500 7/8/02, Robin Netherton wrote: > >But nettles don't grow in the States, at least nowhere I know of, so we > >aren't aware of their uses. And we don't learn to identify (and avoid) > >them. > > Actually they do, in the east, northeast and southern parts of the > country. Wow. I wonder why we never hear about them here? You'd think we'd all have early lessons on how to avoid the things. Or is it a less potent variety or something? > >The furnituremaker -- a young fellow in his 30s -- also informed me that > >dockweed was related to cannibis. "You DO know cannibis, don't you?" he > >grinned. > > Um, he got it slightly backwards. No, more likely my imperfect memory is at fault. I was not exactly in the best condition to retain a botany lesson. (And he was, um, really cute.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 10:06:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31880 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:06:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Do4C14964; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Do0D01683; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DnJD01478 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13714 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:13:30 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:13:30 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Teddy wrote: > > As I understand it now, an English schoolchild would have > > understood immediately where the difficulty lay, both because the > > use of nettles in textiles was common knowledge, > > Not that common - I had no idea they were used for textiles until I > had been involved in historic costuming for some time. Sorry. I meant at the time Hans Christian Andersen was writing. Or at least when the story itself developed, as I believe he was drawing on an older source. At least, that was in my head when I wrote, but I wasn't at all clear. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 10:07:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31891 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:07:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68DoPC14984; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DoID01742; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68DnbD01573 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:49:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17RYtV-0005t8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:49:37 -0400 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000801c22683$f6e577c0$6601a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: <20020707.201142.-959541.0.ysabiau@juno.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Felt substitue-was:Shoulder Roll "tutorial" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:32:53 -0700 Status: RO Oh a question that is easy to answer!! I didn't use wool felt. Not sure where you are from, but in the US you can buy inexpensive synthetic felt in 8 1/2 by 11 rectangles in many colors (not that it shows). Shouldn't be a problem. If you are not from the US, I am sure that I could help you find an online source. Just let me know. **I like the notes on how to put it together, and have a quick **question - do you think there is any another fabric I could **substitute for the felt during construction? I am allergic to wool! ** **Thanks, **Ysabiau _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 10:20:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32010 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:20:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68E47C15921; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68E43D06237; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68E3TD06020 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:03:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.dc.19943cf6 (4158) for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:03:20 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_dc.19943cf6.2a5af5a8_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:03:20 EDT Status: RO --part1_dc.19943cf6.2a5af5a8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/7/2002 11:01:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 00217146@bigred.unl.edu writes: > > Direct link to the image: > http://www.staylace.com/gallery/gallery07/graphics/1819.jpg > > These are images from "The Revolution in Fashion"....a book maddeningly not still in print!!!! GRRRRRRR. Anyway, this book also has images of an early 19th century 2 piece bra-like thingie that criss crosses over the breasts and is lightly boned. --part1_dc.19943cf6.2a5af5a8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/7/2002 11:01:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 00217146@bigred.unl.edu writes:



Direct link to the image:
http://www.staylace.com/gallery/gallery07/graphics/1819.jpg



These are images from "The Revolution in Fashion"....a book maddeningly not still in print!!!! GRRRRRRR. Anyway, this book also has images of an early 19th century 2 piece bra-like thingie that criss crosses over the breasts and is lightly boned. --part1_dc.19943cf6.2a5af5a8_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 10:47:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32186 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:47:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68EV5C17828; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68EV0D15906; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx05.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68EUGD15693 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.101]) by mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 19844584 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:30:13 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Nettle allergy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:30:16 -0400 Status: RO We had nettles around in Minnesota while I was growing up. The leaves (and stems?) had little hair-like spikes on them that broke off in the skin- sort of like glass fibers, or some cacti. You could reduce the discomfort by putting tape on your skin where you were stung, then pulling it off- most of the fibers stuck to the tape and were removed from the skin. -Amanda former Midwestern girl :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:01:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32271 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:01:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Ei4C18819; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:44:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Ei1D21385; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40208.mail.yahoo.com (web40208.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g68EheD21244 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020708144335.37431.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.189.83.254] by web40208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 07:43:35 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207081008.g68A84D13840@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Greetings, Hello list, I'm new here... If you make your chemise very close-fitting and laceable (up the front), you can easily and comfortably acquire the profile of a Gothic lady in a tight-fitting dress (see Robin Netherton's extensive notes on this subject) -- all while achieving good bosum support. I also have finally found the correct shaping of the pattern on myself so that the sleeves do not have to be tight. Yes, you can make sleeveless chemises with thin shoulder straps, but the biggest downside to that might be a lack of underarm protection. Do we really want our nice kirtles and cotes coming in direct contact with our fragrant underarms? The support on a sleeved chemise is done entirely with a very tight fit immediately under the bosum, a bit of shaping of the panels covering the bosum, and the shoulder seams holding the whole thing up. When laced, the chemise does an excellent job of holding my not-small bosum in place and it stays there all day long with no discomfort. All that is to say you do not need breast binding. As for underwear, even though we are still debating that issue for women, you could attempt authenticity by mimicking the male version of underwear for that time period. Let's face it -- chafing is a real issue -- as real as the desire for bosum support when one's bosum is large. It does not make sense to me that women walked around constantly with sore inner thighs. Unfortunately, I can't give you detailed documentation for female undies at this time (no research done yet... anyone else?), but there are some attempts by costume historians to explain and replicate male undies. Perhaps begin with those. Marcele de Montsegur __________________________ From: Rose Amberwulf Subject: [h-cost] 14th Century French lady I'm slowly working on my SCA 14th century French lady costumes. It dawn on me that I know I have to have the chemise, but was there any other underclothing - breast binding, underwear, so on. I hope someone can at least point me the right direction so I can be as complete as possible in my research. Thank you. Roscelin de Limoges Rose Amberwulf __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:13:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32307 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:12:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68EuBC19774; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Eu4D26538; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68EtgD26384 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYX00HZ8QSRKV@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 07:55:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020708074910.00ce4e60@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <003501c2260a$29d8fcd0$befc8218@WERNTO> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 07:52:42 -0700 Status: RO >However, I question the idea that > > someone who spent her whole life in corsets would suddenly feel comfortable > > going without that kind of structure. This all leads me to think that most > > women must have, for at least some time, worn 18th century-shaped corsets > > under their early Directoire gowns -- especially as French fashions > filtered > > out to other countries. > >I suspect you're probably right -- older women, at least, might have been >more likely to stick with styles of undergarments that they were used to >in their youth. There are prints from this period which show women in the older more rigid style and women in the newer softer style, both in the same picture. And my own grandmother (the one born in 1880) always wore a long corset-thing, even into the 1970s. >Interestingly, there's a paper on "The Unfashionable Use of Stays" that >talks about how older country women in Britain were wearing stays with >wooden busks into the beginning of the 20th century, I think -- again, >women sticking with styles they wore in their youth, even though the outer >clothing styles may have changed somewhat. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:16:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32314 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:16:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68F02C20138; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68F01D28227; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68ExqD28141 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:59:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJUW7ZLNXS00B9UH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:59:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJUW7PYOBE00M0PW@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:59:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:55:49 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:55:37 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:55:30 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) In-reply-to: <200207081445.g68EjBD21864@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:55:29 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > I grew up on the outer edge of a fairly small town, within a > > few minutes walk of open downland. > > You know what's really weird? I grew up on a different outer edge of > the same small town Strange that we didn't meet until a few years ago when we were both living in different towns. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:30:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32376 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:30:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68FD6C21672; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FD1D05865; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from moutvdomng0.schlund.de (moutvdomng0.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.130]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FCMD05458 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:12:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [195.20.224.206] (helo=mrvdomng0.kundenserver.de) by moutvdomng0.schlund.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 17RaBQ-0001v7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 17:12:12 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng0.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 17RaBO-0001RW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 17:12:11 +0200 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020708160817.02927e88@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:10:09 +0100 Status: RO At 08:12 AM 7/8/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Ah... that's an illustration from 'Revolution in Fashion', a nearly >unobtainable book. Very much like the corset in Waugh; I wish one could >see the front... If you go to http://www.faintingcouch.com/2542.html they have a 1790's corset for sale with some very good photographs. At $3500 I can't see many people being able to afford it tho'. Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:34:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32395 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:34:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68FH1C22151; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:17:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68F72D02516; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68F6CD02004 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020708150606.ZYXO24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:06:06 +0000 Message-ID: <005a01c22690$fb1db750$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <003501c2260a$29d8fcd0$befc8218@WERNTO> <4.3.1.2.20020708074910.00ce4e60@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:06:04 -0700 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets > There are prints from this period which show women in the older more rigid > style and women in the newer softer style, both in the same picture. And > my own grandmother (the one born in 1880) always wore a long corset-thing, > even into the 1970s. ooo, that sounds interesting! Any ideas where I might find these prints? - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:37:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32410 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:37:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68FL5C22735; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FL1D10182; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from moutvdomng0.schlund.de (moutvdomng0.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.130]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FKUD09904 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:20:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [195.20.224.206] (helo=mrvdomng0.kundenserver.de) by moutvdomng0.schlund.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 17RaJR-00032o-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 17:20:29 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng0.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 17RaJP-0002bU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 17:20:29 +0200 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020708161723.029805b8@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:18:26 +0100 Status: RO At 08:12 AM 7/8/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Ah... that's an illustration from 'Revolution in Fashion', a nearly >unobtainable book. Very much like the corset in Waugh; I wish one could >see the front... If you go to http://www.faintingcouch.com/2542.html they have a 1790's corset for sale with some very good photographs. At $3500 I can't see many people being able to afford it tho'. Ignore the above, it's 1720-40 not 1790's, sorry put it down to a senior moment! Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:39:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32414 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68FLNC22781; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FLFD10345; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FKwD10149 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:20:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14392 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:45:09 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady In-Reply-To: <20020708144335.37431.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:45:09 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: > Hello list, I'm new here... Hi, Tasha! Nice to have you aboard. > If you make your chemise very close-fitting and laceable (up the > front), you can easily and comfortably acquire the profile of a Gothic > lady in a tight-fitting dress (see Robin Netherton's extensive notes > on this subject) Just to clarify: The method I teach is for fitting the dress itself, not a chemise. I recommend a chemise that is not very full but is not fitted either. I have seen no indication of a fitted chemise or a chemise that laces up the front in this period, and I've looked at quite a few images of chemises. Also, I've found that lining the dress helps substantially with the fitting and support, and I can't see lining a chemise. But you're not the first person I've heard applying my methods to fit a chemise. If that works for you and for your desired level of authenticity, great! I just want to make sure people know that using a fitted chemise as a support layer is not an approach I would suggest as historically accurate for 14th-century France. > Yes, you can make sleeveless chemises with thin shoulder straps, but > the biggest downside to that might be a lack of underarm protection. > Do we really want our nice kirtles and cotes coming in direct contact > with our fragrant underarms? With this I agree wholeheartedly. Most illustrations I've seen of chemises (mostly in French and Flemish art) indicate the presence of sleeves. The only sleeveless sources I've seen are the supposed 14th-c. German chemise in Kohler (provenance uncertain and now apparently lost) and some images in the Wenceslaus Bible (Bohemia). That suggests to me the possibility that sleeveless chemises, if worn, were specific to that part of the Continent. (We recently had an extensive discussion on the list about this that should be available in the archives.) Personally, I've found the dress to be more comfortable on the arms with a layer of chemise as cushioning. Think of it as a sock under a shoe -- it minimizes chafing. If you wear a dress with a tight sleeve directly over your arm, it rubs against your skin when you move. If you have a chemise layer, the rubbing occurs between the dress fabric and the chemise, while the chemise itself stays put against your skin. I make my chemise sleeves rather narrow, use a fairly thin linen (not cotton!), and fit the sleeves over the chemise with my arm bent midway between straight and fully flexed. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:40:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32426 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:40:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68FM3C22914; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FM1D10787; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.228]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FLjD10643 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-168-32-190.nyc.rr.com [24.168.32.190]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g68FNAkl012176 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:23:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1790's corsets Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020708074910.00ce4e60@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:22:55 -0300 Status: RO And my own grandmother (the one born in 1880) always wore a long corset-thing, Mine, too. My grandmother was born in 1882. When I was a child I remember asking her why she put on her corset (one of those long pink things with garters) first thing in the morning and took it off just to sleep. She said she'd always worn one and her back hurt without it. She also wore high-heeled bedroom slippers because flat shoes hurt her feet. She was funny and cuddly and wonderful, but her body was rather formal! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:42:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32434 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:42:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68FP3C23393; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:25:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FP1D12580; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FO7D12063 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpcXRUSVX1/j8z1J/S+8TjUqqiZv3sbGPQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G6736QF6; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:23:46 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 5958 Message-ID: <20020708.102329.-423011.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,6-24 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:23:29 -0500 Status: RO Hi Teddy! I took another look at the pattern and I'd say that it's a decent beginning point but it needs a fair amount of tweaking to make it truly correct to period. I'd take a look at a good picture book like "Historic Costume in Detail" to see exactly how you should alter the pattern. Karen On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:22:54 +0000 (GMT) Teddy writes: > Anyone used Simplicity pattern 5958? if so, can you let me know > what you think of it as a startign point for the frock-coat long > waistcoat combination? > > Ta muchly > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 11:43:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32439 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:43:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68FQ9C23562; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:26:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FQ5D13259; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:26:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FPQD12815 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:25:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g68FPMp94289; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:25:22 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200207081525.g68FPMp94289@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:25:22 BST Status: RO Teddy wrote : > > > I grew up on the outer edge of a fairly small town, within a > > > few minutes walk of open downland. > > > > You know what's really weird? I grew up on a different outer edge of > > the same small town > > Strange that we didn't meet until a few years ago when we were > both living in different towns. Maybe it's not that small a town? Pop 169,000, a web-search tells me. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 12:04:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32638 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:04:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68FkCC25867; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FfED21994; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FeKD21319 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip180.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.180]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g68FeEj14186 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:40:14 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? Message-ID: <3D295220.17717.8D04A92@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3D290E81.92CCA76D@in-tch.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:49:36 -0700 Status: RO > But nettles don't grow in the States, at least nowhere I know of, so > we aren't aware of their uses. And we don't learn to identify (and > avoid) them. So I didn't recognize them, or even consider the > possibility of their presence, as I tramped through a churchyard in > the Cotswalds one summer day in 1985 or so, reading medieval grave > markers. Moments after I swept a cluster of weeds away from a > tombstone, my hand and arm started to burn and swell horribly. So I > did what any American would do upon encountering poison ivy -- located > a spigot and plunged my arm under running water. Yow, that's an extreme form of nettle problem. Green soap is the usual cure, same as poison ivy/oak. (I've never found plain water to be much use with that either.) Actually nettles (both real stinging nettles and the dead nettles with the white flowers) are quite common in the Pacific Northwest where I grew up. You learn early what they are and how to avoid them and what to do if you do get into them, just like with poison ivy/oak. The only good thing is that dead ones do not do nearly the same damage as dead poison ivy/oak. The "stingers" go away pretty quickly. Then > he warned me that I should be very careful NOT to get it wet -- it > would increase the pain. (Too late.) Interesting. Never had that much problem with it later. It was always the immediate problem (which after the first encounter, you tend not to have again.) > I still have trouble with the idea that the English *eat* nettles. So do Americans when they can get them young and tender. They make a great soup too. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 12:06:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32656 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:06:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Fl8C25989; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Fl2D25331; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f100.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68FfiD22301 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:41:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:41:29 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:41:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Flax was Re: [h-cost] Nettles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2002 15:41:29.0550 (UTC) FILETIME=[ED72C6E0:01C22695] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:41:29 +0000 Status: RO >And one last bit of memory that's filtering to the surface (source unknown) >is that nettle stems were soaked (in water? something elselike an acidic >agent?), beaten, soaked again, and then prepared much like flax. Now you made me think of an old question that's been resurfacing in my head but that I never did anything with before... How WAS flax prepared? Any good website? How was it spun into thread? Or was it used as is to make very thin fabric? Does it grow around here? (here being Montreal, Canada) I would think so since we have a re-creation of a village not far from here that tells us they used to use it about a hundred years ago. And, one last question: if I wanted to grow it, does someone have a good source for SMALL quantities of seeds? Thanks :-) Alix _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 12:25:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00327 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:24:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68G73C28265; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68G71D06893; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68G6ZD06591 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:06:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14643 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:30:45 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? In-Reply-To: <3D295220.17717.8D04A92@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:30:45 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Then > > he warned me that I should be very careful NOT to get it wet -- it > > would increase the pain. (Too late.) > > Interesting. Never had that much problem with it later. It was > always the immediate problem (which after the first encounter, you > tend not to have again.) I wasn't clear. He meant that during the two-hour-or-so span it would take for the reaction to clear, that using water would just make it hurt more. And I had already flushed it with water within just a few minutes of the reaction beginning, and it didn't help at all. I have no idea if it would have hurt less if I hadn't tried to wash it off, but it was pretty damn painful! Based on the different descriptions I've seen from various people on this list, located in various regions, I wonder if there are several varieties of stinging nettles, with varying degrees of effect. At least I was hit by Genuine English stinging nettles, in a Genuine Medieval Churchyard. ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 12:25:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00328 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:25:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68G7dC28352; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:07:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68G40D05118; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g68G3qD05034 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23502 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2002 16:03:51 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 8 Jul 2002 16:03:51 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-100-116.sonic.net [209.148.100.116]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g68G3o322642 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:03:50 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D29B8F1.A011F101@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Modern commercial nettle cloth? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:08:17 -0700 Status: RO According to the following article, the textile industry is experimenting with nettle cloth as a modern commerical product. http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/htmlCache/2002-07-02T145618Z_01_N02163426_RTRIDST_0_SCIENCE-LIFE-BRITAIN-NETTLES-DC.html Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 12:48:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00417 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:48:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68GV2C01079; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68GV1K19392; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68GUmK19252 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpcXRUSVX1/jIi3ZeIzhHunNN7ChloRU2w=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G677XLEV; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:29:47 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Flax was Re: [h-cost] Nettles Message-ID: <20020708.113016.-423011.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,51-57,59-92 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:30:16 -0500 Status: RO Oh! Oh! I know this one!!!!! When I was a senior Girl Scout, we did pioneer crafts at a local log cabin. One of the crafts we did was processing and spinning flax. Flax is an annual. It generally grows in temperate climates, some of the best linen comes from Ireland and Holland- or at least used to. At the end of it's life cycle, the flax would be pulled up by the roots to maintain as long a fiber as possible and then 'retted' which entailed allowing the stalks to lie in shallow, moving water until the outer stem rotted off. I'm not sure how long this would take, but while it was going on apparently the water was not suitable for drinking or other human consumption. The end product is something that looks like a robust straw or very fine stick about 2-3 feet long. These are then broken on a flax break. It's a simple device but I'm not sure if I can describe it effectively- it it about waist high, made of wood, and hinged at one end so that the center section can be raised up by a handle- think of a really big triple bladed kinife (dull blades), hinged at one end so that the blades fall between slots in the base. Completely confused? Good. You place the flax on the break and proceed to smash it over and over, breaking off the brittle outer layer but not damaging the flexible inner fibers. After you are done breaking the flax, you 'scutch' the flax which helps to remove the stem bits which are still clinging onto the flax. The scutching knife looks like a broad bladed sword made of wood- once again it is dull so as not to cut the fibers. The flax is held up and struck with the scutching knife in a glancing manner until no more bits of stem come off. Then the flax is run thru a series of hackles to further clean and smooth it out. At this point it looks very much like pale blonde hair. A hackle is a series of closely spaced pointy bits (ours were made of long thick nails) sticking up thru a board. You comb the flax thru, just like hair, until it pulls thru smoothly. The left over bits of short fibers and tangles are known as tow. Depending on how fine you want the end product to be, you put the flax thru finer and finer hackles. To spin the flax you first dress it onto a distaff so that all the fibers are running in the same direction. It ends up looking like a gentle spiral, tied at the top tightly and at the bottom loosely which gives the whole thing a bit of a pear shape. The distaff is either held under the arm for drop spinning, or set into a hole in the spinning wheel for wheel spinning. A cup of water (or lots of spit!) is used to wet the fibers as they are spun as the vegetable fibers don't have any natural moisture. Spinning flax can be hard on your hands as the fibers are tough and dry, and the water doesn't help your hands at all! We used to go back and forth spinning flax and wool as the lanolin in the wool would sooth the soreness of our fingers. Once the linen thread was spun (once it is processed, flax changes name to linen), it can be woven just like any fiber. The linen doesn't have the natural elasticity that wool does so you may need to warp the loom a bit more carefully to allow for some length to be taken up by the weaving. As you can see, it's a fairly labor intensive process. If you are looking for flax seeds, be careful that you don't get the ornamental flax that is commonly sold as a garden plant. I believe that it is related to textile flax, but doesn't have the long inner fibers. Karen On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:41:29 +0000 "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" writes: > >And one last bit of memory that's filtering to the surface (source > unknown) > >is that nettle stems were soaked (in water? something elselike an > acidic > >agent?), beaten, soaked again, and then prepared much like flax. > > Now you made me think of an old question that's been resurfacing in > my head > but that I never did anything with before... > > How WAS flax prepared? Any good website? How was it spun into > thread? Or was > it used as is to make very thin fabric? Does it grow around here? > (here > being Montreal, Canada) I would think so since we have a re-creation > of a > village not far from here that tells us they used to use it about a > hundred > years ago. And, one last question: if I wanted to grow it, does > someone have > a good source for SMALL quantities of seeds? > > Thanks :-) > Alix > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: > http://mobile.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 12:53:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00444 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:53:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Ga5C01699; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Ga1K22444; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from monsoon.pacifier.com (IDENT:root@mailroute2.pacifier.com [216.65.128.6]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68GZHK21985 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by monsoon.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g68GLdW26242 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip180.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.180]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g68GLVP13376 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:21:32 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? Message-ID: <3D295BD0.14754.8F621B0@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3D295220.17717.8D04A92@localhost> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:30:56 -0700 Status: RO > At least I was hit by Genuine English stinging nettles, in a Genuine > Medieval Churchyard. ;-) > > --Robin Something I'm sure you'd just as soon *not* repeat. ;) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 12:54:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00450 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:54:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68GORC00316; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:24:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68GONK15453; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68GKkD13547 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17RbFS-0005jg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:20:26 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.78 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Subject: [h-cost] Bodiced Petticoat, was Re: 1790's corsets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:20:26 -0400 Status: RO Ah, how's this for luck? I'm working on a friend's Regency ensemble and was just mulling over the corset issue yesterday. Since we're focusing on the 1810-1815 time frame, I was rationalizing the long, hip covering corset as a likely canidate, but my friend was more interested in the possibility of not needing to wear a corset (she hasn't succumbed to gravity yet, so she probably could avoid the need for serious support). But I ran across the La Mode Bagatalle's Regency Wardrobe pattern and was interested in the the "bodiced petticoat" as a possible compromise between no corset and some insurance against a saggy bodice. Judging from the pictures on the package, it appears that the bodiced petticoat is similar to what Lydia wore in A&E's "Pride & Prejudice" where she's running about the house in her undies and collides with Mr. Collins... Is this what the bodiced petticoat is? Is there any historical evidence for such a thing? I've heard rave reviews about LMB's pattern, although it's on the pricey side, but I'd like to know the history of this garment. Does anyone have any further info? Thank you! Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 13:12:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00590 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:12:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68GlUC03263; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68GY0K21108; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68GX1K20545 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYX00HLVVB0L6@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:33:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-reply-to: <005a01c22690$fb1db750$befc8218@WERNTO> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020708092744.00ceed50@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <003501c2260a$29d8fcd0$befc8218@WERNTO> <4.3.1.2.20020708074910.00ce4e60@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:27:57 -0700 Status: RO > > There are prints from this period which show women in the older more rigid > > style and women in the newer softer style, both in the same picture. And > > my own grandmother (the one born in 1880) always wore a long corset-thing, > > even into the 1970s. > >ooo, that sounds interesting! Any ideas where I might find these prints? costume books. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 13:13:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00594 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:13:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68GuBC04226; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:56:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Gk0K28485; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Gj0K27844 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:45:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14943 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:09:12 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? In-Reply-To: <3D295BD0.14754.8F621B0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:09:11 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > At least I was hit by Genuine English stinging nettles, in a Genuine > > Medieval Churchyard. ;-) > > Something I'm sure you'd just as soon *not* repeat. ;) Only if I can be assured that there will be a really cute 30-something furnituremaker handy who will take me to his back garden and rub dockweed on it for me ;-) --Robin, willing to make personal sacrifices in the name of research _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 13:21:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00634 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:21:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68H46C05161; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68H40K08916; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68H3eK08737 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:03:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g68H54941193; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:05:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207081705.g68H54941193@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettle allergy You asked In-Reply-To: <03b701c22672$8cade8d0$6cc8010a@mail2world.com> "from freyalyn at Jul 8, 2002 04:28:14 am" To: h-costume@indra.com CC: shari l brooks X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO doesn' seem that strange -- according to the herbalist page here http://www.purplesage.org.uk/profiles/nettle.htm nettles are very useful to increase circulation, which I imagine would help carry away the things causing rashes or outbreaks. .heather.meadows. > I get eczema on my hands occasionally. If nettles are in season I go and > run my hands through the tops of the nettle patch - agony for about 20 > minutes, settle down to a slow burn, and after an hour or so the rash > has gone and it's taken the heat out of the eczema. It also works for > various allergic rashes I get to various things. > > Strange but true. > > It's also very effective for cold sores and chilblains, but I don't get > these. > > Freyalyn > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . > >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage > has the scoop on what matters most to you. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 13:23:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00650 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:23:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68GlmC03306; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:47:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68GIoD12596; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68GEGD10664 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OobhC4vUHYT9HwXbfM7ifj0="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G676YK9N; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:12:51 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) Message-ID: <20020708.091113.-150245.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:58:35 +0000 Status: RO If you collide with stinging nettle, use a cool compress of tea leaves or coffee. The tannic acid takes care of the problem. We have lots of stinging nettle up here--our edge of the Pacific NW is a rain forest. Arlys P.S. Hiya Rose! :) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 13:31:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00673 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:31:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68HE4C06205; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:14:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68HE0K14850; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68HDYK14578 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:13:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g68HEsf41337 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:14:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207081714.g68HEsf41337@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: "from AlbertCat@aol.com at Jul 8, 2002 10:03:20 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I want that book to come back in print so badly. Maddening is right! .heather. > > These are images from "The Revolution in Fashion"....a book maddeningly not > still in print!!!! GRRRRRRR. Anyway, this book also has images of an early > 19th century 2 piece bra-like thingie that criss crosses over the breasts and > is lightly boned. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 13:34:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00677 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:34:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68HI1C06601; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68HI0K17143; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68HHtK17072 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYX00GE5XDUH1@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Flax was Re: [h-cost] Nettles In-reply-to: <20020708.113016.-423011.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020708101601.00c87b90@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:16:32 -0700 Status: RO >Then the flax is run thru a series of hackles to further clean >and smooth it out. At this point it looks very much like pale blonde >hair. A hackle is a series of closely spaced pointy bits (ours were made >of long thick nails) sticking up thru a board. You comb the flax thru, >just like hair, until it pulls thru smoothly. The left over bits of short >fibers and tangles are known as tow. This is, of course, why blondes are called tow-headed. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 13:52:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00807 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:52:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68HZBC08290; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:35:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68HZ6K27332; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68HY1K26623 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g68HXxJU012113 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:33:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020708160817.02927e88@pop.oneandone.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I saw this on Ebay last week. She's asking WAY too much for it -- most similar stays go for around $250-$500. Also, I'd place it around the third quarter of the 18th century, whereas she thinks it dates from 1720-1740. Of course, stays are notoriously hard to date, but it really looks later than 1740 to me... Definitely great pics, though! Cheers, Mara On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, The Duchess wrote: > If you go to http://www.faintingcouch.com/2542.html they have a 1790's > corset for sale with some very good photographs. At $3500 I can't see many > people being able to afford it tho'. > > Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 14:00:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00918 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:00:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Hh2C09135; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Hh0K02267; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68HgSK01942 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:42:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g68HgRJU013595 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:42:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bodiced Petticoat, was Re: 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, Sarah, I've heard claims for a petticoat attached to a boned bodice, but haven't seen the documentation. That being said... There IS evidence for attaching petticoats to a bodice (unboned), as a way to keep a petticoat up at the proper level, either under a jacket (there's an ensemble like this in Bradfield), or perhaps to wear under a sheer gown, like a slip. I've heard good things about the La Mode Bagatelle pattern, so have fun! Cheers, Mara On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Sarah Lorraine wrote: > Ah, how's this for luck? I'm working on a friend's Regency ensemble > and was just mulling over the corset issue yesterday. Since we're > focusing on the 1810-1815 time frame, I was rationalizing the long, hip > covering corset as a likely canidate, but my friend was more interested > in the possibility of not needing to wear a corset (she hasn't > succumbed to gravity yet, so she probably could avoid the need for > serious support). But I ran across the La Mode Bagatalle's Regency > Wardrobe pattern and was interested in the the "bodiced petticoat" as a > possible compromise between no corset and some insurance against a > saggy bodice. Judging from the pictures on the package, it appears > that the bodiced petticoat is similar to what Lydia wore in > A&E's "Pride & Prejudice" where she's running about the house in her > undies and collides with Mr. Collins... Is this what the bodiced > petticoat is? Is there any historical evidence for such a thing? I've > heard rave reviews about LMB's pattern, although it's on the pricey > side, but I'd like to know the history of this garment. Does anyone > have any further info? Thank you! > > Sarah > http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 14:13:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00976 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:13:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Ht6C10507; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:55:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Hm0K05344; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Hl5K04840 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:47:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g68Hl3JU014333 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:47:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Another Regency question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Take a look at this picture: http://locutus.ucr.edu/~cathy/images/i-gillray/gill4.jpeg The woman getting dressed appears to be wearing a VERY short shift -- all one can see under her stays are the sleeves, and also her drawers. A while back I saw a short Regency-period shift for sale on one of the sites that sells antique clothing; the speculation was that it had been shortened so that the fabric could be reused. However -- I think the bottom hem was finished. Which makes me wonder if someone had been wearing this shortened shift in the way the woman in the picture is wearing it. That would certainly decrease the bulk of petticoats worn. Thoughts? -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 15:51:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01455 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:51:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68JY7C20112; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68JY0K04186; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68JXfK03999 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.9d.2a7ee8a0 (4224) for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:33:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <9d.2a7ee8a0.2a5b4300@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9d.2a7ee8a0.2a5b4300_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:33:20 EDT Status: RO --part1_9d.2a7ee8a0.2a5b4300_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/7/02 3:18:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, athurman@cybergal.com writes: > Just wondering if anyone else on this list is attending. > I've never been and I'm going alone, just wondering if there are any folks > I should try and meet up with. > Allison > I will be there Allison. Kit --part1_9d.2a7ee8a0.2a5b4300_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/7/02 3:18:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, athurman@cybergal.com writes:


Just wondering if anyone else on this list is attending.
I've never been and I'm going alone, just wondering if there are any folks I should try and meet up with.
Allison


I will be there Allison.

Kit --part1_9d.2a7ee8a0.2a5b4300_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 16:08:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01525 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:08:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68Jp2C21703; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Jp1K14668; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Jo9K14219 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (morr0664.gti.net [208.216.122.64]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 861603575F for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D29ECF0.C147830E@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <3D291326.80CE2081@in-tch.com> <00b601c22638$0e47dd50$31baee0c@c59303b> <3D2917B0.9A28D37F@in-tch.com> <00c501c22639$0a07f440$31baee0c@c59303b> <3D299193.7B611D20@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Free to a good home.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:50:08 -0400 Status: RO Bummer. Oh well, guess I shoulda checked my e-mail earlier .. Thanks anyhoo! Deb Rand > Thanks to everyone volunteering to give my pattern a good home. It's > gone now! > --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 23:24:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03658 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:24:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6937vE04543; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:07:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g691cgK14505; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g691KMK09159 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020709012017.NLFQ15755.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 01:20:17 +0000 Message-ID: <003d01c226e6$c7ca1b40$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] nettlecloth (WAS linen weight?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:20:15 -0700 Status: RO For those who are interestd, I've scanned the images of the dress made of nettlecloth. Warning - these are large images! http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/1796_moden.jpg http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/1796_moden_back.jpg - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 23:25:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03667 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69398E05640; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g691MLK09738; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g691GsK08182 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020709011649.NIHE15755.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 01:16:49 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c226e6$4bba4f70$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <003501c2260a$29d8fcd0$befc8218@WERNTO> <4.3.1.2.20020708074910.00ce4e60@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020708092744.00ceed50@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:16:47 -0700 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets > >ooo, that sounds interesting! Any ideas where I might find these prints? > > costume books. Wait, there are books about costume? BLINKBLINK ;) - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 23:27:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03685 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:27:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g693AsE07352; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g690dLK26570; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g690SAK23221 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:28:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m87.in-tch.com [216.166.191.87]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g690ETP00650 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:14:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D2A2F6E.A8F7BDEF@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen weight? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 18:33:50 -0600 Status: RO Hey! No fair! Leave the cute 30-something furnituremakers for those of us who are still single! --Sue, just your average josephine, who's more than willing to sacrifice for you famous-researcher types Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > At least I was hit by Genuine English stinging nettles, in a Genuine > > > Medieval Churchyard. ;-) > > > > Something I'm sure you'd just as soon *not* repeat. ;) > > Only if I can be assured that there will be a really cute 30-something > furnituremaker handy who will take me to his back garden and rub dockweed > on it for me ;-) > > --Robin, willing to make personal sacrifices in the name of research _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 23:44:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03788 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:44:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g68LZ6C04499; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68LZ1K19199; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.lanset.com (mail.lanset.com [208.187.165.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68LYGK18625 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lanset.com (unverified [208.187.244.38]) by mail2.lanset.com (Vircom SMTPRS 5.3.228) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:20:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3D2A0320.20304@lanset.com> From: Lou Demas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Sort of costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:24:48 -0700 Status: RO CHOOSING A NEW BATHING SUIT Reportedly a true e-mail a woman wrote to her friend after shopping for a bathing suit. I have just been through the annual pilgrimage of torture and humiliation known as buying a bathing suit. When I was a child in the 1950's, the bathing suit for a woman with a mature figure was designed for a woman with a mature, figure - boned, trussed and reinforced, not so much sewn as engineered. They were built to hold back and uplift and they did a good job. Today's stretch fabrics are designed for the pre-pubescent girl with a figure carved from a potato chip. The mature woman has a choice - she can either front up at the maternity department and try on a floral suit with a skirt, coming away looking like a hippopotamus who escaped from Disney's Fantasia - or she can wander around every run-of-the-mill department store trying to make a sensible choice from what amounts to a designer range of fluorescent rubber bands. What choice did I have? I wandered around, made my sensible choice and entered the chamber of horrors known as the fitting room. The first thing I noticed was the extraordinary tensile strength of the stretch material. The Lycra used in bathing costumes was developed, I believe, by NASA to launch small rockets from a slingshot, which give the added bonus that if you manage to actually lever yourself into one, you are protected from shark attacks. The reason for this is that any shark taking a swipe at your passing midriff would immediately suffer whiplash. I fought my way into the bathing suit, but as I twanged the shoulder strap in place, I gasped in horror - my bosom had disappeared!! Eventually, I found one bosom cowering under my left armpit. It took a while to find the other. At last I located it flattened beside my seventh rib. The problem is that modern bathing suits have no bra cups. The mature woman is meant to wear her bosom spread across her chest like a speed hump. I re-aligned my speed hump and lurched toward the mirror to take a full view assessment. The bathing suit fit all right, but unfortunately, it only fit those bits of me willing to stay inside it. The rest of me oozed out rebelliously from top, bottom, and sides. I looked like a lump of play dough wearing undersized cling wrap. As I tried to work out where all those extra bits had come from, the pre-pubescent sales girl popped head through the curtains, "Oh There you are!" she said, admiring the bathing suit...I replied that I wasn't so sure and asked what else she had to show me. I tried on a cream crinkled one that made me look like a lump of masking tape, and a floral two piece which gave the appearance of an oversized napkin in a serviette ring. I struggled into a pair of leopard skin bathers with ragged frill and came out looking like Tarzan's Jane pregnant with triplets and having a rough day. I tried on a black number with a midriff with such a high cut leg I thought I would have to wax my eyebrows to wear them. Finally, I found a suit that fit...a two piece affair with shorts style bottom and a loose blouse-type top. It was cheap, comfortable, and bulge friendly, so I bought it. When I got home, I read the label which said "Material may become transparent in water. " I'm determined to wear it anyway...I'll just have to stay out of the water! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 23:48:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03813 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:48:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g690qrC23597; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68NUfK03818; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 17:30:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68NQdK02310 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 17:26:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g68NQbI26851 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 01:26:38 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish translation? In-Reply-To: <3D24E979.5000508@oldwaylane.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 01:26:37 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO > > Is there anyone on the list who reads Danish and would be willing to > > translate some brief pattern notations for me? Kendra, I can give it a shot if you haven't had better offers yet. I'm not sure how much the terms differ between Danish and Norwegian, which is what I know, but there's no harm in finding out. :) > and even sent me the Swedish and Finnish ones also (wish I > had a Norwegian one, dunno if there is one). Judy - I don't know either, if you find one please post! Failing that, feel free to ask if there's anyting specific you're wondering about, and I'll translate as far as my vocabulary allows. :) Ingrid -- I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 8 23:50:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03836 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g691CEC26522; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:12:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68Mg1K12161; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68MfjK12023 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-38lc24f.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.8.143]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17RhCQ-0003EF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 18:41:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020708.113016.-423011.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> References: <20020708.113016.-423011.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Flax Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:57:29 -0700 Status: RO At 11:30 AM -0500 7/8/02, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > At the end of >it's life cycle, the flax would be pulled up by the roots to maintain as >long a fiber as possible and then 'retted' which entailed allowing the >stalks to lie in shallow, moving water until the outer stem rotted off. >I'm not sure how long this would take, but while it was going on >apparently the water was not suitable for drinking or other human >consumption. Assuming anyone would _want_ to -- I'm told it smells quite vile. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 00:03:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03921 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 00:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g693lLE11551; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g693lJK22339; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:47:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g693UMK17705 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g693Vjv45439 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:31:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207090331.g693Vjv45439@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] nettlecloth (WAS linen weight?) In-Reply-To: <003d01c226e6$c7ca1b40$befc8218@WERNTO> "from Kendra Van Cleave at Jul 8, 2002 06:20:15 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I love that back detailing - that is just so gorgeous! > For those who are interestd, I've scanned the images of the dress made of > nettlecloth. Warning - these are large images! > > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/1796_moden.jpg > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/1796_moden_back.jpg > > - Kendra > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 00:20:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04005 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 00:20:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6943xE12487; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6943xK27098; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g693fiK20872 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303b ([12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020709034138.QQGD29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@c59303b> for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 03:41:38 +0000 Message-ID: <022401c226fa$05286c90$31baee0c@c59303b> From: "chiara" To: References: <3D2A0320.20304@lanset.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sort of costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:37:54 -0500 Status: RO Well, ya know what my solution would be? SURGERY!!!!! :) Ches ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Demas" To: Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 4:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sort of costume > CHOOSING A NEW BATHING SUIT Reportedly a true e-mail a woman wrote to > her friend after shopping for a bathing suit. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 00:52:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04287 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 00:52:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g694ZwE14070; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:35:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g694ZvK05886; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:35:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6949hK28696 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:09:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g694B7S45672 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:11:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207090411.g694B7S45672@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sort of costume In-Reply-To: <022401c226fa$05286c90$31baee0c@c59303b> "from chiara at Jul 8, 2002 10:37:54 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO i'm all for esther williams suits. or body paint. > Well, ya know what my solution would be? SURGERY!!!!! :) > > Ches > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lou Demas" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 4:24 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Sort of costume > > > > CHOOSING A NEW BATHING SUIT Reportedly a true e-mail a woman wrote to > > her friend after shopping for a bathing suit. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 02:01:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04938 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:01:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g695j4E17073; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g695j4K24034; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g695c3K21980 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020709053757.NPNZ6023.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 05:37:57 +0000 Message-ID: <002a01c2270a$c6bdf810$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish translation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:37:55 -0700 Status: RO Ingrid, Thanks so much for volunteering to translate my pattern! Bjarne, he of amazing costume and embroidery skills, now has proved he has fabulous translation skills as well! I am set to go thanks to his services. Thanks! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 04:24:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14385 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69882E21923; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69880K25388; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6987oK25334 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 2.9.2aa28f09 (1322); Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:07:29 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <9.2aa28f09.2a5bf3c1@aol.com> To: classes@amoeba.cugc.org, figment@sgi.net, h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9.2aa28f09.2a5bf3c1_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:07:29 EDT Status: RO --part1_9.2aa28f09.2a5bf3c1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My apologies to those who receive this posting twice. Looking through Italian Renaissance Interiors I came across a picture of a Birth (may be the Virgin; may be John the Baptist: book says Virgin; website says Baptist) by Giusto de' Menabuoi in the Cathedral Baptistry in Padua (1376-78). I got very excited...there is a woman wearing a sleeveless chemise that is belted under the breasts. I would normally assume that she is the wetnurse, but she's wearing a balzo, although that may indicate that the painter assumed that the Baptist (or Virgin) would have a noble wetnurse. There is also a servant standing in the back wearing a shortsleeved chemise with a sleeveless gown similar to a gonnella over top of it. I would love to have feedback and comments on this picture. Nancy Stengel Ulmer (Maddalena Salutati) Sleeveless Chemise --part1_9.2aa28f09.2a5bf3c1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My apologies to those who receive this posting twice. 

Looking through Italian Renaissance Interiors I came across a picture of a Birth (may be the Virgin; may be John the Baptist: book says Virgin; website says Baptist) by Giusto de' Menabuoi in the Cathedral Baptistry in Padua (1376-78).  I got very excited...there is a woman wearing a sleeveless chemise that is belted under the breasts.  I would normally assume that she is the wetnurse, but she's wearing a balzo, although that may indicate that the painter assumed that the Baptist (or Virgin) would have a noble wetnurse.

There is also a servant standing in the back wearing a shortsleeved chemise with a sleeveless gown similar to a gonnella over top of it.

I would love to have feedback and comments on this picture.

Nancy Stengel Ulmer
(Maddalena Salutati)


Sleeveless Chemise --part1_9.2aa28f09.2a5bf3c1_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 04:48:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14418 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:48:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g698VfE22507; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g698VeK00355; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:31:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g698RDK29452 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJVWSU351S00OVMR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:27:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJVWST1TZQ00TTGP@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:27:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:23:33 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:23:13 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:23:03 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-reply-to: <200207081632.g68GW4K19977@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <11910DA0C74@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:23:03 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > If you go to http://www.faintingcouch.com/2542.html they have a 1790's > corset for sale with some very good photographs. At $3500 I can't see > many people being able to afford it tho'. Hi Lissa, It's interesting to read the bit that says; "lined with what appears to be its original non manufactured cloth." The close-ups of that cloth look *exactly* like the teatowels we have at home for drying the dishes... I wonder if that's what they mean by "non manufactured"... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 05:40:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14535 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 05:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g699O2E23961; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 03:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g699O0K09172; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 03:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g699NhK09124 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 03:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020709092338.GWHO8262.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:23:38 +0000 Message-ID: <3D2AAB99.5070100@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie: "Druids" References: <200207072303.g67N3bOW018436@grape.dcsi.net.au> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060805050307030401050005" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 02:23:37 -0700 Status: RO --------------060805050307030401050005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Has anyone else try this website? I wasn't able to get anywhere with it. I am quite eager to take a look at the beads. Roscelin Frojel Gotlandica wrote: > > Hi Folks > OK the bead CD is now up on Professor Carlssons site. > For those interested have a look at :- > http://www16.aname.net/~arkeodok/ > First in a series from Gotland University's Archaeology Department. > One nice difference is that they should be in colour as opposed to > different gray textures as in many of the archaeology books. > Gotland is where over 80% of the Viking age finds in Sweden come > from. It was a major trading centre in the Baltic up until the > Battle of Visby. > Cheers > Sandy > Fröjel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. > http://www.frojel.com/ > frojel@frojel.com --------------060805050307030401050005 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone else try this website?  I wasn't able to get anywhere with it.  I am quite eager to take a look at the beads.

Roscelin

Frojel Gotlandica wrote:

 Hi Folks
OK the bead CD is now up on Professor Carlssons site.
For those interested have a look at :-
http://www16.aname.net/~arkeodok/
First in a series from Gotland University's Archaeology Department.
One nice difference is that they should be in colour as opposed to
different gray textures as in many of the archaeology books.
Gotland is where over 80% of the Viking age finds in Sweden come
from. It was a major trading centre in the Baltic up until the
Battle of Visby.
Cheers
Sandy
Fröjel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society.
http://www.frojel.com/
frojel@frojel.com

--------------060805050307030401050005-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 06:19:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14662 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:19:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69A31E25032; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69A30K17017; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g69A2UK16936 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:02:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020709100230.63557.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:02:30 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:02:30 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Hi All, I finally got some photos of the Officer's uniform coat and breeches and waistcoat I have been working on so madly in the past weeks for ben. Unfortunately he had his coat closed and you can't see the beautiful red silk and gold brocade waistcoat. *laughs* I will take more photos though soon. http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/Temp/Hounslow/ My mantua and fontange was made by Ninya Mikhaila, costumier to Hampton Court amongst other places. Mine and Ben's wigs were made by Derek Easton (again, like the 1660s one) our shoes by Sarah Juniper (all our shoes are). All my lace is 19th century lace, some handmade venetian gros needlepoint (lace stomacher, tucker and wrist frills), which I got from Marla Mallett, textile collector; the lappets of the fontange are 19th c. chemical lace lappets from a cape, the dark red silk ribbon is Victorian too. The belt buckle is a genuine one from 1700, a mopped back to shine meal detector find. All of these last items are from eBay. The linen and silk cream brocade of the petticoat is an actual period pattern taht was woven as 'wallpaper' for a stately period home here in England and I got the narrow remnants, 10 meters of it. The black silk and silver metal brocade of the actual mantua is from Russia, and the gold real metal braid edging is from Germany. All the other silks and silk brocades are from merchants in the UK. Ben's coat is made from scarlet superfine cloth from Hainsworth, which is the actual same that is used by the Ministry of Defense for dress and parade uniforms. A beautiful beautiful cloth, but a pain to sew, it is so tightly woven. The silver lace is the B&S pattern for state livery, it's mylar not 90% silver because te latter was impossible to get, and I got it from Hand's, the oldest established (and still going) goldlacemen in London, supliers to the Ministry of defense and the Royal household too. The coat is lined with scarlet taffeta silk. The early tricorne hat (rolled up, wired and NOT folded) with silver lacing was made by Jane Smith, hatmaker in London, who usually works for the big theatre companies like the National Theatre. The brocade of Ben's waistcoat is from Russia too, and is linen lined. There you are, a big long explanation of what you see on the pix :-) Hope you enjoy, something completely else for once! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 06:36:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14692 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:36:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69AK1E25606; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69AK1K20563; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69AJsK20523 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJW0QLTJ8W00OVMR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:19:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJW0QLGDI000TRNQ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:19:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:16:18 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:15:30 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:15:28 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume books (WAS: 1790's corsets) In-reply-to: <200207091004.g69A4AK17244@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <11AEFF31968@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:15:28 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > > >ooo, that sounds interesting! Any ideas where I might find these > > >prints? > > > > costume books. > > Wait, there are books about costume? > > BLINKBLINK Nice idea, but there wouldn't be enough interest in them to make it worth doing a print run - any publisher will tell you *that*!..... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 06:59:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14751 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:59:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Ah1E26221; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Ah0K25048; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de (moutvdom01.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.200]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69AgpK25014 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 04:42:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [195.20.224.214] (helo=mrvdomng2.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 17RsSI-0000fn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:42:50 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng2.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 17RsSI-0007tt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 12:42:50 +0200 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020709113251.00aafe58@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: <11910DA0C74@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <200207081632.g68GW4K19977@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:34:39 +0100 Status: RO At 09:23 AM 7/9/2002 +0000, you wrote: > > If you go to http://www.faintingcouch.com/2542.html >It's interesting to read the bit that says; > >"lined with what appears to be its original non manufactured >cloth." > >The close-ups of that cloth look *exactly* like the teatowels we >have at home for drying the dishes... I wonder if that's what they >mean by "non manufactured"... I see what you mean! When I looked at it I wondered but my knowledge of period materials is sketchy at best so I couldn't say if it was OK or not. Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 08:12:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14997 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:12:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Bu5E28281; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 05:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Bu1K10395; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 05:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69BthK10322 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 05:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g69BtgJU021358 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:55:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] nettlecloth (WAS linen weight?) In-Reply-To: <003d01c226e6$c7ca1b40$befc8218@WERNTO> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Oooh... Thank you, Kendra! It's lovely.... -- Mara On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > For those who are interestd, I've scanned the images of the dress made of > nettlecloth. Warning - these are large images! > > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/1796_moden.jpg > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/1796_moden_back.jpg > > - Kendra > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 08:21:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15046 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:21:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69C52E28634; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69C51K12453; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69C0CK11288 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g69C0BJU021829 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:00:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sort of costume In-Reply-To: <200207090411.g694B7S45672@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO What are Esther Williams suits? Cut-off Levis and a tank top work pretty well ;D On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: > i'm all for esther williams suits. > > or body paint. > > > > Well, ya know what my solution would be? SURGERY!!!!! :) > > > > Ches > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lou Demas" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 4:24 PM > > Subject: [h-cost] Sort of costume > > > > > > > CHOOSING A NEW BATHING SUIT Reportedly a true e-mail a woman wrote to > > > her friend after shopping for a bathing suit. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 08:28:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15071 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:28:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69CC7E28988; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69CC7K14192; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69C3oK12146 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:03:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g69C3lJU022295 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:03:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: <11910DA0C74@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 08:29:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15075 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:29:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69CDME29040; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69CDMK14519; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69C55K12483 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g69C53JU022373 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:05:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets In-Reply-To: <11910DA0C74@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO (pouts) I wish we could get such wonderful tea towels here in the States! Seriously, I've been keeping an eye out for good checked linen cloth, and while some good 18th c. checks can be found, they're not very common. How unfair that you're using them to wipe dishes! -- Mara On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Teddy wrote: > Hi Lissa, > > It's interesting to read the bit that says; > > "lined with what appears to be its original non manufactured > cloth." > > The close-ups of that cloth look *exactly* like the teatowels we > have at home for drying the dishes... I wonder if that's what they > mean by "non manufactured"... > > > Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 09:23:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15322 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:23:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69D72E01394; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69D71K28984; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69D6GK28766 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m72.in-tch.com [216.166.191.72]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g69CqaP18140 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 06:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D2AE11C.A665885A@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettles (WAS:linen weight?) References: <200207081525.g68FPMp94289@bart.nildram.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 07:11:56 -0600 Status: RO Holy crap! That's hardly small! I think the largest city in my whole state is only a little over 100,000. --sue jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > > Teddy wrote : > > > > > I grew up on the outer edge of a fairly small town, within a > > > > few minutes walk of open downland. > > > > > > You know what's really weird? I grew up on a different outer edge of > > > the same small town > > > > Strange that we didn't meet until a few years ago when we were > > both living in different towns. > > Maybe it's not that small a town? Pop 169,000, a web-search tells me. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 09:31:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15388 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:31:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69DF1E01859; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DF1K01389; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DEGK01208 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g69DEBH05976; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:14:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200207091314.g69DEBH05976@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] small towns ( was Nettles (WAS:linen weight?)) From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:14:11 BST Status: RO > jane@williams.nildram.co.uk > wrote: > > > > Teddy teddy1@mdx.ac.uk> > wrote : > > > > > > > I grew up on the outer edge of a fairly small town, within a > > > > > few minutes walk of open downland. > > > > > > > > You know what's really weird? I grew up on a different outer edge of > > > > the same small town > > > > > > Strange that we didn't meet until a few years ago when we were > > > both living in different towns. > > > > Maybe it's not that small a town? Pop 169,000, a web-search tells me. Sue Clemenger wrote : > Holy crap! That's hardly small! I think the largest city in my whole > state is only a little over 100,000. > --sue I suppose we tend to compare it with London, just down the road. Population of around 7 million or so. Luton certainly isn't a city, although as towns go it's quite big. Or maybe the UK just tends to do things bigger than the USA...? no, maybe not! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 09:34:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15416 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:34:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69DI1E02017; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DI0K02252; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DHPK02084 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:17:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g69DHLC06024; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:17:21 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200207091317.g69DHLC06024@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:17:21 BST Status: RO Next week I'm off for a tour of southern Germany and Austria: route as yet unplanned. Anyone got any suggestions as to museums and so on that I really shouldn't miss? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 09:37:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15492 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:37:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69DLFE02241; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DLEK03444; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:21:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g69DKsK03284 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:20:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020709132053.77766.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 14:20:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207091317.g69DHLC06024@bart.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:20:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > Next week I'm off for a tour of southern Germany and Austria: route as yet > unplanned. Anyone got any suggestions as to museums and so on that I really > shouldn't miss? It depends in what you are interested. Vienna is an absolute must of course, so many museums. Are you going along the Rhine? The castles are stunning, lovely smalish town museums. A lot on Roman and a fantastic museum on the Franks in Krefeld Gellep. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 09:37:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15497 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:37:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69DLAE02225; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DLAK03406; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DKYK03160 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.ab.1ea063ff (657) for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:20:24 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:20:24 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 7/7/2002 7:02:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kendrav@attbi.com writes: << Can anyone point me to any other sources that might help me fill in the gaps between 1790 and 1820? Does _Corsets & Crinolines_ touch on this era? >> This is the $64 question. I don't think we yet know a whole lot about the transition period. Alden O'Brien, curator of costume, dolls, and toys, at the DAR Museum in Washington, is actively pursuing this question, as are a few others--Lorina at 5 Rivers Chapmanry comes to mind. As to published sources, there really aren't any. Ann Wass History/Museum Specialist Riversdale House Museum Riverdale Park MD annbwass@aol.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 09:37:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15501 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:37:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69DL7E02205; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DL6K03373; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DKAK03061 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-8-132.s2164.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.8.132] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17RuuX-0005UQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:20:09 -0400 Message-ID: <3D2AE4AB.2020107@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Norwegian glassary (was: Danish translation?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g69DKAK03061 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:27:07 -0400 Status: RO Ingrid G. Storrř wrote: > Judy - I don't know either, if you find one please post! Failing > that, feel free to ask if there's anyting specific you're wondering > about, and I'll translate as far as my vocabulary allows. Hi Ingrid- I appreciate that, but right now I'm not involved in anything (except packing all of my sewing and assorted stuff and moving my office!). As I understand it, the language glossary sheets are tucked into the Butterick patterns when you buy them at the store. So anyone buying the patterns in Sweden gets the English - Swedish sheets everytime, likewise the Danish. do you not get insert sheets with Butterick patterns? Does Butterick not sell in Norway (odd, if they do in Denmark, Sweden & Finland!)? I didn't understand why Norwegian got left out of the pack! Seems peculiar to me. Maybe they think that since the vowels are the same it's the same language (Swedish looks obviously different)? -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 09:37:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15505 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:37:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69DL1E02186; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DL1K03322; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DK0K02987 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-121-28.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.28]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIC72116; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:19:24 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <028e01c2274b$d214bc80$4f6a4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] small towns ( was Nettles (WAS:linen weight?)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:23:30 +0100 Status: RO No Luton is NOT a small town in English standards except maybe for Londoners. Not anyone normal ;) Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 09:59:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15588 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:59:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Dh2E03586; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Dh1K10406; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DgNK10218 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.18a.a5f722c (4238) for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:41:59 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <18a.a5f722c.2a5c4226@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_18a.a5f722c.2a5c4226_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:41:58 EDT Status: RO --part1_18a.a5f722c.2a5c4226_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you make it as far as Nuernberg plan lots of time for the Germanische Nationalmuseum there. It is fabulous!!!!!! Elisabeth --part1_18a.a5f722c.2a5c4226_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you make it as far as Nuernberg plan lots of time for the Germanische Nationalmuseum there.  It is fabulous!!!!!!
Elisabeth --part1_18a.a5f722c.2a5c4226_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:04:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15610 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:04:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Dm2E03850; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Dm1K12264; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DlhK12175 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.155.10928094 (657) for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:47:33 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <155.10928094.2a5c4375@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Regency question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:47:33 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 7/8/2002 1:56:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@radix.net writes: << A while back I saw a short Regency-period shift for sale on one of the sites that sells antique clothing; the speculation was that it had been shortened so that the fabric could be reused. However -- I think the bottom hem was finished. Which makes me wonder if someone had been wearing this shortened shift in the way the woman in the picture is wearing it. That would certainly decrease the bulk of petticoats worn. >> Mark Hutter, the tailor at Colonial Williamsburg, gave a presentation at Gadsby's Tavern, where he presented the idea that the short shift was developed to wear with pantaloons. Think about it--if you are wearing a hip length corset and drawers, a long shift would really get in the way. This is, though, another one of those things that we just don't know enough about yet. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:09:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15619 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:09:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Dr1E04157; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Dr1K13987; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DqJK13763 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g69DqFF07658; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:52:15 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from apache) Message-Id: <200207091352.g69DqFF07658@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:52:15 BST Status: RO N Kipar wrote : > --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk > wrote: > Next week I'm off for a tour of > southern Germany and Austria: route as yet > > unplanned. Anyone got any suggestions as to museums and so on that I > really > > shouldn't miss? > > It depends in what you are interested. Life, the Universe, and Everything.... no, seriously, up to about 1600s, costuming and cookery and maps and swords and... lots of things... > Vienna is an absolute must of course, It is? We'd been thinking we might not get that far. Replan... Munich seems to have a lot of museums, the question is which ones we'd want to go to. Innsbruck ilkewise is mentioned as being a "must", but with little idea as to just *why*. > Are you going along the Rhine? The castles are stunning, > lovely smalish town museums. Yes, we're having our first night at Bacharach and working south from there. But we "did" the Rhine a couple of years ago, so concentrating on things further south this time. > A lot on Roman and a fantastic museum on the Franks in > Krefeld Gellep. hmm, where's that? Google has so far found me no maps, but a Spangenhelm, which sounds good. Multimap says... oh, right up there. A bit further north than we were going this time. Shame: I'll have to remember that for another year. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:12:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15632 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:12:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Du1E04389; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Du1K15177; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69DtjK15063 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:55:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCjKShZW2PXekO5cNF+IZGCRYdyeX8MvezQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G7AHGQWS; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:54:54 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend Message-ID: <20020709.085439.-563463.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,5-7 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:54:39 -0500 Status: RO Hi Nicole! I love seeing the less common eras of costuming! Your mantua looks great. Can we get some detail shots of the laces on the gentleman's coat? Some detail shots of your lace would be great as well! Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:19:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15674 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:19:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69E31E04879; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69E30K17664; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69E27K17312 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:02:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g69E23r07853; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:02:03 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from apache) Message-Id: <200207091402.g69E23r07853@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:02:03 BST Status: RO BOSTONHAHN@aol.com wrote : > If you make it as far as Nuernberg plan lots of time for the Germanische Nationalmuseum there.  It is fabulous!!!!!! > Elisabeth Ooh, just took a look at their web site. That's on the list! Lots of other museums, too, and I have a husband with a thing about WW2, so he won't be arguing too much. Thanks! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:22:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15689 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:22:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69E63E05101; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:06:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69E62K18853; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g69E5CK18557 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:05:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020709140511.68418.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:05:11 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207091352.g69DqFF07658@bart.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:05:11 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > > no, seriously, up to about 1600s, costuming and cookery and maps and swords > and... lots of things... hmmm.. up to 1600, so that means some of my favourites don't apply. > > Vienna is an absolute must of course, > > It is? We'd been thinking we might not get that far. nope, not if you're not interested in the 18th century. Vienna is THE place to go for the 18th in my opinion. Replan... Munich seems > to have a lot of museums, the question is which ones we'd want to go to. would be a good idea to ask alexa from marquise.de she lives in Munich. > Innsbruck ilkewise is mentioned as being a "must", but with little idea as to > just *why*. sheesh I can't remember, I went to Innsbruck but I really can't remember. Are you going to Salzburg? Beautiful place, though mainly 18th again. > > hmm, where's that? Google has so far found me no maps, but a Spangenhelm, > which sounds good. Multimap says... oh, right up there. A bit further north > than we were going this time. Shame: I'll have to remember that for another > year. Krefeld is between Aachen and Dueseldorf, near Cologne. Nicole - coming from Aachen ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:22:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15693 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:22:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69E6BE05121; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69E6AK18933; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:06:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g69E5uK18806 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020709140555.14955.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:05:55 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020709.085439.-563463.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:05:55 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Hi Nicole! > > > I love seeing the less common eras of costuming! Your mantua looks great. > Can we get some detail shots of the laces on the gentleman's coat? Some > detail shots of your lace would be great as well! > > > Karen I wanted to have detail shots but I ended up with a heatsrokes on Sunday so couldn't take anymore photos. *pout* I will get more though! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:33:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15767 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:33:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69EG3E05833; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69EG1K22672; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx09.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx09.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.19]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69EFsK22604 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.101]) by mx09.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 37547180 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 10:15:45 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1790's corsets Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:15:53 -0400 Status: RO I've occasionally seen really, really inexpensive checked and striped linen at Phoenix Textiles online ( http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/ ). I got a bolt of a stripe last year and it's very nice. I have vague plans for a middle-class regency day dress, and also want to try real linen sheets! I know a year or 2 ago they had a very similar check to the one used in the corset. -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:38:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15793 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:38:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69ELFE06255; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69ELAK24743; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69EK5K24329 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p104-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.212.104] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17RvqV-0007OH-00; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:20:03 +1200 Message-ID: <002d01c22753$ba3a58b0$68d4adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20020709100230.63557.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:20:06 +1200 Status: RO > I finally got some photos of the Officer's uniform coat and breeches and > waistcoat I have been working on so madly in the past weeks for ben. > Unfortunately he had his coat closed and you can't see the beautiful red silk > and gold brocade waistcoat. *laughs* I will take more photos though soon. > > http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/Temp/Hounslow/ It's so funny, in late 1997 I was cast as Lady Wishfort in the Way of the World for some resoration comedy scenes.. and while I was hunting bits to make a costume (really quickie one as *no one* else did anyhting thing and I would stick out like a terribley sore thumb) I started to absolutely *loathe* that particular style. But then I found some mantua patterns and really lovely examples.. and decided it was't the fashions persay but the way they were presented in print. Didn't really like the horizonatla lace flounce things happening. But now of course I have plans on making my own wool matua;) o it's funny how we can be cyclic in our own preferences in fashion... And of course your manua and ensemble help in seeing the more classy side of the style;) Thanks for sharing:) michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:38:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15800 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:38:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69EM1E06368; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69EM1K25112; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69ELoK25034 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJW96ILX4W00OVMR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:21:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJW96FCPOW017FXU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:21:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:18:07 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:17:37 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:17:27 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] small towns In-reply-to: <200207091407.g69E7GK19358@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <11EF8F80262@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:17:27 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > > Maybe it's not that small a town? Pop 169,000, a web-search tells > > > me. > > Sue Clemenger wrote : > > > Holy crap! That's hardly small! I think the largest city in my whole > > state is only a little over 100,000. --sue > > I suppose we tend to compare it with London, just down the road. > Population of around 7 million or so. Luton certainly isn't a city, > although as towns go it's quite big. > > Or maybe the UK just tends to do things bigger than the USA...? > no, maybe not! Well, when I used the term "small town" I was referring to *Dunstable* which is considerably smaller than Luton (even though it has now merged onto one side of Luton) and I call any town that I can walk from one side to the other in half an hour or less, small. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:39:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15809 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:39:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69EN1E06456; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69EN0K25527; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69EMIK25219 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:22:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g69EME408197; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:22:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from apache) Message-Id: <200207091422.g69EME408197@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:22:14 BST Status: RO N Kipar wrote : > > Innsbruck ilkewise is mentioned as being a "must", but with little idea as > to > > just *why*. > > sheesh I can't remember, I went to Innsbruck but I really can't remember. Possibly "because it's pretty" covers it? > Are > you going to Salzburg? Beautiful place, though mainly 18th again. Probably. Mozart is my favourite composer, so I expect I'll take a look. > Krefeld is between Aachen and Dueseldorf, near Cologne. (sigh) came right past it two years ago. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 10:46:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15844 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:46:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69ET2E07010; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69ET1K28132; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69EShK27982 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g69EScV08267; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:28:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from apache) Message-Id: <200207091428.g69EScV08267@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] small towns From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:28:38 BST Status: RO Teddy wrote : > Well, when I used the term "small town" I was referring to > *Dunstable* which is considerably smaller than Luton (even though > it has now merged onto one side of Luton) and I call any town that I > can walk from one side to the other in half an hour or less, small. Ah, this explains it all: to me, Dunstable is a suburb of Luton. Just like Stopsley, where I grew up. And to get this at least slightly back on topic, both close enough to the town centre to be linked to the Luton hat-making industry, I think? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 11:10:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15924 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:10:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Es2E09284; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Es1K10224; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.16]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69ErgK10010 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:53:43 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise Thread-Index: AcInIEx0/DHcDp53Q22bpGXuKL7AMQANxCfw From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g69ErgK10010 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:52:49 -0700 Status: RO Nancy Stengel Ulmer wrote: << Looking through Italian Renaissance Interiors I came across a picture of a Birth (may be the Virgin; may be John the Baptist: book says Virgin; website says Baptist) by Giusto de' Menabuoi in the Cathedral Baptistry in Padua (1376-78). I got very excited...there is a woman wearing a sleeveless chemise that is belted under the breasts. I would normally assume that she is the wetnurse, but she's wearing a balzo, although that may indicate that the painter assumed that the Baptist (or Virgin) would have a noble wetnurse. >> Wow - great find, Nancy! Now I'll have to rush home and dig up my copy and take a very close look. I also found a literary reference in Boccaccio's _Elegy of Lady Fiammetta_. I don't have it with me at work, but there's a scene where she and Panfilo are at the equivalent of a resort town and she talks about the ladies wearing silky tunics with bare arms that revealed a view of their cleavage when the ladies bent to pick up shellfish (?) out of the water. I'll add the book to the list of things to dig up and bring in tomorrow. (I'm also working to check the Italian to make sure that it is not a translation error of some sort.) I may be able to document that sleeveless chemise in Italy yet! Woo-hoo! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 11:51:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16115 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:51:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69FZ6E13445; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:35:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69FZ1K02474; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69FY6K01942 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g69FY5H03870 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:34:05 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Norwegian glassary (was: Danish translation?) In-Reply-To: <3D2AE4AB.2020107@oldwaylane.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:34:05 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Judy Mitchell wrote: > As I understand it, the language > glossary sheets are tucked into the Butterick patterns when > you buy them at the store. So anyone buying the patterns in > Sweden gets the English - Swedish sheets everytime, likewise > the Danish. do you not get insert sheets with Butterick > patterns? Does Butterick not sell in Norway (odd, if they do > in Denmark, Sweden & Finland!)? Hm, I don't buy a lot of commercial patterns, so I don't really know if you can get Butterick patterns here. I'll check if I can remember when I'm somewhere that sells patterns. > I didn't understand why > Norwegian got left out of the pack! Seems peculiar to me. > Maybe they think that since the vowels are the same it's the > same language (Swedish looks obviously different)? I'm not sure if this is the reason, but it's fairly usual for Norwegian to be left out of multilanguage contexts, like for example the back of shampoo bottles that are sold in different Nordic countries. Heh, lame example, but the first thing that springs to mind. :) In my experience most Norwegians read both Swedish and Danish fairly well, even though the vocabulary differs between the languages. Personally I read Danish better than Swedish (but English better than either), and understand verbal Swedish far better than Danish. My guess would be that since Norway has a much smaller population than both other Scandinavian countries, it may be simply a matter of money - why go to the extra cost when it is assumed that we understand the other two languages anyway. But this is speculation on my part - for all I know, there may be a Norwegian glossary sheet and they just forgot to include it in your pack. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 11:59:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16148 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:59:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Fh3E14319; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Fh2K07080; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69FguK07019 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:42:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g69Fgtr03917 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:42:55 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20020709140511.68418.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:42:54 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, N Kipar wrote: > > > > hmm, where's that? Google has so far found me no maps, but a Spangenhelm, > > which sounds good. Multimap says... oh, right up there. A bit further north > > than we were going this time. Shame: I'll have to remember that for another > > year. > > Krefeld is between Aachen and Dueseldorf, near Cologne. > > Nicole - coming from Aachen Aah, speaking of Düsseldorf - I'm going back for a few days in October to visit old haunts. My family lived there for two years, gaah, over 12 years ago, but my I was quite young then and my costume interest not developed. So I have no idea if the city has any particularly good costume related museums or any really good fabric stores. Any ideas? I need to shop and marvel! :D Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 13:39:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17017 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:39:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69HN5E24517; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69HN1A05664; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69HMoA05544 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:22:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.153] (pm5-153.eos.net [205.133.149.153]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16436 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:22:48 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200207091004.g69A43K17218@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Nicole's photos Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 13:14:05 -0400 Status: RO Nicole, as always I am so inspired by your photos! It is so wonderful to see people doing everything perfectly! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 13:45:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17064 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:45:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69HS2E25100; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69HS1A08566; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69HR4A08025 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p238.directcon.net [209.233.107.238]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g69HQNKI009704 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:26:24 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020709103200.00e34280@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions In-Reply-To: <20020709100230.63557.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 10:32:00 -0700 Status: RO Help! Can anyone refer me to a book with clear instructions on how to construct a button fly? I've been through all my sewing books and I'm starting to get really frustrated. Esepecially with books titled things like "The Complete Book of Tailoring" that don't even *mention* menswear. It seems a rather large area to ignore, after all. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 14:38:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17259 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:38:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69IM1E00354; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69IM0A10053; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69ILaA09886 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:21:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g69IMHX50381 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207091822.g69IMHX50381@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sort of costume In-Reply-To: "from Kevin & Mara Riley at Jul 9, 2002 08:00:11 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO She was a 40's star and Olympic swimmer who now produces a line of 40's style swimsuits that are very elegant. And expensive. I've been drooling over them for years. > What are Esther Williams suits? > > Cut-off Levis and a tank top work pretty well ;D > > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: > > > i'm all for esther williams suits. > > > > or body paint. > > > > > > > Well, ya know what my solution would be? SURGERY!!!!! :) > > > > > > Ches > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Lou Demas" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 4:24 PM > > > Subject: [h-cost] Sort of costume > > > > > > > > > > CHOOSING A NEW BATHING SUIT Reportedly a true e-mail a woman wrote to > > > > her friend after shopping for a bathing suit. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 15:07:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17385 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:07:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Ip1E03459; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Ip0A27104; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69IoKA26656 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYZ00758WB52P@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:50:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise In-reply-to: <9.2aa28f09.2a5bf3c1@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020709114149.00c8c510@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:42:42 -0700 Status: RO >Looking through Italian Renaissance Interiors I came across a picture of a >Birth (may be the Virgin; may be John the Baptist: book says Virgin; >website says Baptist) by Giusto de' Menabuoi in the Cathedral Baptistry in >Padua (1376-78). I got very excited...there is a woman wearing a >sleeveless chemise that is belted under the breasts. I would normally >assume that she is the wetnurse, but she's wearing a balzo, although that >may indicate that the painter assumed that the Baptist (or Virgin) would >have a noble wetnurse. > >There is also a servant standing in the back wearing a shortsleeved >chemise with a sleeveless gown similar to a gonnella over top of it. > >I would love to have feedback and comments on this picture. Koehler has a photo of a real one of these in his book. I don't remember the period he said it was, but it's even in the Dover reprint. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 15:09:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17394 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:09:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69IqbE03613; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69IqaA27938; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69IoLA26669 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:50:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYZ00758WB52P@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:50:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sort of costume In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020709114404.00cfb750@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200207090411.g694B7S45672@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:44:25 -0700 Status: RO I never got the original post. Whazup? >What are Esther Williams suits? > >Cut-off Levis and a tank top work pretty well ;D > > >On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: > > > i'm all for esther williams suits. > > > > or body paint. > > > > > > > Well, ya know what my solution would be? SURGERY!!!!! :) > > > > > > Ches > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Lou Demas" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 4:24 PM > > > Subject: [h-cost] Sort of costume > > > > > > > > > > CHOOSING A NEW BATHING SUIT Reportedly a true e-mail a woman wrote to > > > > her friend after shopping for a bathing suit. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 15:09:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17398 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:09:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69IqgE03630; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69IqfA28001; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:52:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69IoMA26679 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:50:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GYZ00758WB52P@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:50:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20020709103200.00e34280@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020709114703.00d01c80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20020709100230.63557.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:49:35 -0700 Status: RO You might start by putting a pair of Levis 501s next to a pair of regular trousers, and looking at both at the same time. Or you might go to a vintage clothing place and looking at an original. And there must be repro-patterns out there, for less than the price of a book. >Help! Can anyone refer me to a book with clear instructions on how to >construct a button fly? > >I've been through all my sewing books and I'm starting to get really >frustrated. Esepecially with books titled things like "The Complete Book >of Tailoring" that don't even *mention* menswear. It seems a rather large >area to ignore, after all. > >Margo >"One Tough Costumer" > > >See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 15:17:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17434 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:17:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69J11E04533; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69J11A03162; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g69J0te03088 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:00:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sort of costume Message-ID: <20020709130055.B27240@net.indra.com> References: <200207090411.g694B7S45672@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <4.3.1.2.20020709114404.00cfb750@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020709114404.00cfb750@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:00:55 -0600 Status: RO http://www.esther-williams.com/swimwear.htm ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 15:19:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17441 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:19:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69J32E04686; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69J31A04274; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.16]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69J26A03770 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:02:07 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise Thread-Index: AcInecwwwuRPubqKT4C0OK8LMeFweQAAAtBA From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g69J26A03770 Subject: [h-cost] Sleeveless Chemise in Koehler Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:01:19 -0700 Status: RO Katya wrote: <> Since Koehler is considered a dubious source by many, I've tracked the picture and the information from his book back to the original source that he obtained it from. The book is _Fünf Bücher Deutscher Hausaltertümer von den Ältesten Geschichtlichen Zeiten Bis Zum 16. Jahrhundert_ by Moriz Heyne, published in Leipzig in 1903. The picture in Koehler is the exact same picture shown in the Heyne book. The chemise was found in 1867 in Castle Rhanis (Burg Rhanis) in Thuringen in Germany with other items that were dated from the early 14th century. The most recent information I have from the curator at the museum at Castle Rhanis is that the chemise is no longer there. The castle was in private hands prior to and during WWII and from the information that I have so far, the Russians took everything that was in the castle with them when they came through at the end of WWII. I have a contact checking to see if, by some miracle, it survived to make it into a Moscow museum, but no news so far. Best regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 15:21:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17467 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:21:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69J50E04942; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69J50A05530; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69J42A04858 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCjKShZW2PXekXEviBgdxNLhOn6DGIeN25g=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G7A24S3F; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:02:58 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions Message-ID: <20020709.140152.-563463.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:01:52 -0500 Status: RO Smoke and Fire have a button fly pants pattern available for $11.00. Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 15:27:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17497 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:27:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69JB2E05554; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69JB0A08710; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69JAgA08510 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip191.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.191]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g69JAYP21155 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:10:34 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise Message-ID: <3D2AD4D0.21123.EB7026C@localhost> Priority: normal References: <9.2aa28f09.2a5bf3c1@aol.com> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020709114149.00c8c510@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:19:28 -0700 Status: RO > Koehler has a photo of a real one of these in his book. I don't > remember the period he said it was, but it's even in the Dover > reprint. That's the one which sparked off this discussion. Colleen had been trying to track it down but evidently it was carried off by invading Russians in WWII. It's a 14th C German chemise. There are also the Bohemian "bath house girls" but Colleen is looking for specifically Italian 14th century sleeveless chemises. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 16:12:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17735 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:12:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Ju2E09779; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Ju1A04734; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69JtIA04374 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g69JtGJU023783 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:55:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend In-Reply-To: <20020709.085439.-563463.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO A friend of mine has put in a request for pictures of enlisted personnel, too . -- Mara On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Hi Nicole! > > > I love seeing the less common eras of costuming! Your mantua looks great. > Can we get some detail shots of the laces on the gentleman's coat? Some > detail shots of your lace would be great as well! > > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 16:50:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17937 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:50:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69KY1E13370; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69KY0A26547; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g69KXrA26449 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020709203353.81358.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 21:33:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 21:33:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > A friend of mine has put in a request for pictures of enlisted personnel, > too . > > -- Mara personnel? *grins* red- or blackhaired? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 17:08:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18044 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:08:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69KpmE15186; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Kn1A05737; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69KllA05069 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:47:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KeckSimba@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.138.10fd6018 (4569) for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:47:24 -0400 (EDT) From: KeckSimba@aol.com Message-ID: <138.10fd6018.2a5ca5dc@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Subject: [h-cost] how do i get them to stop sending me e-mails? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:47:24 EDT Status: RO _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 17:32:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18136 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:32:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69LG2E17584; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LG1A21249; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from broadviewnet.net (ols.broadviewnet.net [64.115.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g64GbWD18101 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:37:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 5737 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2002 16:37:30 -0000 Received: from s0.dial1.pro.nac.net (HELO lola.broadviewnet.net) (209.123.234.50) by mail.broadviewnet.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2002 16:37:30 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020704120540.00abdec0@mail.broadviewnet.net> X-Sender: windsong@mail.broadviewnet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 To: Costuming@yahoogroups.com From: Victoria Wickens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_41066938==_.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] velvet for sale (cross-posted, not spam, please forgive me, it's too good to pass up) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 12:40:05 -0400 Status: RO --=====================_41066938==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the massive cross-post, but Buny's running an email sale and I=20 get to handle it!!! This is good for the month of July ONLY, so hurry and=20 get yours!!!!. Minimum order is 5 yards, shipping INCLUDED in the price=20 (where else are you going to find a deal like that???): ACETATE: $40 for 5 yards, $60 for 10 yards, and $6/yd including shipping=20 for every additional yard after 10. PANNE: $30 for 5 yards, $50 for 10 yards, and $5/yd including shipping for= =20 each additional yard over 10. COLORS: black burgundy hunter green royal blue navy purple red PayPal preferred, and it ships the soonest! Address for PayPal is=20 velvet4sale@aol.com. The website where you can see these fabrics is=20 http://www.velvetfabric.com, but this sale is email only, not on the site=20 at all!! When you write to her, the subject of the email should say "Vik=20 sent me" or "Email sale". If you have to send any other form of Paymant,=20 send it to: Kay Cushing 15735 Garfield Ave. Suite 36 Paramount, CA 90723 For more great deals and to be informed about future sales, sign up for her= =20 mailing list! New newsletter subscribers get a discount coupon that can be= =20 used on her website in the month of July! Me? I'm off to order more velvet!!! Vik, very very very happy customer... what colors did I need again? oh=20 yeah.... =A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4= =F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA= =B0`=B0=BA=A4 Lady Victoria's Castle Closet: Custom Clothing and Fine Renaissance Designs http://bluedragyn.net/~lvcc/index2.html Gallery: http://bluedragyn.net/~lvcc/castle-creations 15% discount to List Members, PayPal accepted --=====================_41066938==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the massive cross-post, but Buny's running an email sale and I get to handle it!!! This is good for the month of July ONLY, so hurry and get yours!!!!.  Minimum order is 5 yards, shipping INCLUDED in the price (where else are you going to find a deal like that???):

ACETATE:  $40 for 5 yards, $60 for 10 yards, and $6/yd including shipping for every additional yard after 10.

PANNE: $30 for 5 yards, $50 for 10 yards, and $5/yd including shipping for each additional yard over 10.

COLORS:
black
burgundy
hunter green
royal blue
navy
purple
red

PayPal preferred, and it ships the soonest!  Address for PayPal is velvet4sale@aol.com.  The website where you can see these fabrics is http://www.velve= tfabric.com, but this sale is email only, not on the site at all!! When you write to her, the subject of the email should say "Vik sent me" or "Email sale".  If you have to send any other form of Paymant, send it to:

Kay Cushing
15735 Garfield Ave. Suite 36
Paramount, CA 90723

For more great deals and to be informed about future sales, sign up for her mailing list!  New newsletter subscribers get a discount coupon that can be used on her website in the month of July! 

Me?  I'm off to order more velvet!!!

Vik, very very very happy customer... what colors did I need again?  oh yeah....

=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4= =F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA= =B0`=B0=BA=A4
Lady Victoria's Castle Closet:
Custom Clothing and Fine Renaissance Designs
http://bluedragyn.net/~lvcc/index2.html Gallery: http://bluedragyn.net/~lvcc/castle-creations

15% discount to List Members, PayPal accepted
--=====================_41066938==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 17:34:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18143 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:34:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69LI1E17781; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LI1A22449; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g686BlD29611 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-169.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.169]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AHX37839; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:12:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <027801c22647$72c14f00$3e664ed5@pavilion> From: "Historic Costume" To: References: <3D281088.31243.3E7DF54@localhost><3D290EC2.8030101@attbi.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020707225807.009f8610@pop.telus.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nettle allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Historic Costume" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:19:16 +0100 Status: RO There would be no sting on nettle cloth, even wet nettle have no sting Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 17:34:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18148 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:34:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69LI6E17799; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LI6A22533; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.190.223.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g68LhSK24832 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bella (usergh072.dsl.pipex.com [62.190.175.72]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9037D16000B7E for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:43:20 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00c201c226c8$7e20f900$0101a8c0@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: References: Subject: Re: Flax was Re: [h-cost] Nettles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:43:25 +0100 Status: RO > Now you made me think of an old question that's been resurfacing in my head > but that I never did anything with before... > > How WAS flax prepared? Any good website? How was it spun into thread? > Sara Von Tresckow has a wonderful website at:- http://www2.powercom.net/~sarav/id11.htm which covers all practical aspects of flax from growing (see the flaxcam pictures!) to preparing, through spinning and weaving, to wearing. Linda Walton. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 17:38:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18188 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:38:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69LM1E18146; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LM1A24866; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LLMA24526 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17S2QC-000KuI-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 22:21:20 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of weeds.... References: <3D29956D.3D4F04A7@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3D29956D.3D4F04A7@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:15:23 +0100 Status: RO Yes, a friend of mine has a demonstration hank of wool dyed with tansy, and she says she wants to renew it because it's not as loud as it was. We were considering doing surcoats with it and giving them to people as "stewards" - high-visibility surcoats! Jean Sue Clemenger wrote >Speaking of using plants we may often consider weeds, some friends of >mine, who are into natural dyeing, have discovered that you can get >really nifty shades of green using tansy or knapweed (whole plant, no >root in both cases), both of which are ubiquitous around here (Montana >has a bad problem with these and other "noxious weeds."). You even get >a really decent darker green if you do an iron bath on the fibers after >the dyeing. I've just seen the results on wool and silk fibers (the >wool definitely took the dye more strongly), although they apparently >played with some linen threads as well. No idea how colorfast it is, >but now I'm sure wishing I could find some white wool >*fabric.*....*sigh* ;-) >--sue, who's also discovered you get a really good, screaming yellow >using dandelion flowers, which makes an eye-popping bright green when >you overdye it with indigo >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 17:39:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18205 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69LM8E18176; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LM8A24943; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LLOA24547 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17S2QC-000KuJ-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 22:21:21 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend References: <20020709100230.63557.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20020709100230.63557.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:57:19 +0100 Status: RO I have to say, the gentlemen in their coats and wigs were definitely the spiffiest thing at the event - Huzzah! Jean N Kipar wrote >Hi All, > >I finally got some photos of the Officer's uniform coat and breeches and >waistcoat I have been working on so madly in the past weeks for ben. >Unfortunately he had his coat closed and you can't see the beautiful red silk >and gold brocade waistcoat. *laughs* I will take more photos though soon. > >http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/Temp/Hounslow/ > >My mantua and fontange was made by Ninya Mikhaila, costumier to Hampton Court >amongst other places. Mine and Ben's wigs were made by Derek Easton (again, >like the 1660s one) our shoes by Sarah Juniper (all our shoes are). All my lace >is 19th century lace, some handmade venetian gros needlepoint (lace stomacher, >tucker and wrist frills), which I got from Marla Mallett, textile collector; >the lappets of the fontange are 19th c. chemical lace lappets from a cape, the >dark red silk ribbon is Victorian too. The belt buckle is a genuine one from >1700, a mopped back to shine meal detector find. All of these last items are >from eBay. The linen and silk cream brocade of the petticoat is an actual >period pattern taht was woven as 'wallpaper' for a stately period home here in >England and I got the narrow remnants, 10 meters of it. The black silk and >silver metal brocade of the actual mantua is from Russia, and the gold real >metal braid edging is from Germany. All the other silks and silk brocades are >from merchants in the UK. >Ben's coat is made from scarlet superfine cloth from Hainsworth, which is the >actual same that is used by the Ministry of Defense for dress and parade >uniforms. A beautiful beautiful cloth, but a pain to sew, it is so tightly >woven. The silver lace is the B&S pattern for state livery, it's mylar not 90% >silver because te latter was impossible to get, and I got it from Hand's, the >oldest established (and still going) goldlacemen in London, supliers to the >Ministry of defense and the Royal household too. The coat is lined with scarlet >taffeta silk. The early tricorne hat (rolled up, wired and NOT folded) with >silver lacing was made by Jane Smith, hatmaker in London, who usually works for >the big theatre companies like the National Theatre. The brocade of Ben's >waistcoat is from Russia too, and is linen lined. > >There you are, a big long explanation of what you see on the pix :-) > >Hope you enjoy, something completely else for once! > >Nicole > >===== >Nicole Kipar M.A. >Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs >Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: marquis@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 17:45:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18234 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:45:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69LT1E19157; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LT1A29208; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LSRA28925 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:28:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.104.183e050e (4426) for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:28:15 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <104.183e050e.2a5caf6f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_104.183e050e.2a5caf6f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:28:15 EDT Status: RO --part1_104.183e050e.2a5caf6f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Margo.....shall I send you my method of doing it? I just sorta figured it out on my own but it works and looks just like "the real thing" [it IS the real thing as far as I can tell]. I find them easier than zipper flies. Let me type up some instructions tonight. In the mean time see if you can find a sewing book from the 1950s or earlier. It should have button flies in it. --part1_104.183e050e.2a5caf6f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Margo.....shall I send you my method of doing it? I just sorta figured it out on my own but it works and looks just like "the real thing" [it IS the real thing as far as I can tell]. I find them easier than zipper flies.

Let me type up some instructions tonight.

In the mean time see if you can find a sewing book from the 1950s or earlier. It should have button flies in it. --part1_104.183e050e.2a5caf6f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 17:51:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18262 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:51:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69LZ2E19677; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LZ1A02670; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69LYYA02399 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:34:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([80.6.56.247]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020709213433.POYV28874.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:34:33 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] velvet for sale (cross-posted, not spam, please forgive me, it's too good to pass up) Message-ID: <3D2B64FA.1868.6195BD@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.0.20020704120540.00abdec0@mail.broadviewnet.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:34:34 +0100 Status: RO On 4 Jul 2002 at 12:40, Victoria Wickens wrote: > ACETATE: $40 for 5 yards, $60 for 10 yards, and $6/yd including shipping for every additional > yard after 10. > > PANNE: $30 for 5 yards, $50 for 10 yards, and $5/yd including shipping for each additional yard > over 10. That looks like a lot of velvet for not very much money: but I now realise that my total knowledge of velvet is "I can't afford it" (and even that is now wrong!) Could someone advise on what these two types are, please? Also when they would have been used, and for what? (Yes, I *am* a beginner, you're absolutely right!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 18:42:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18405 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:42:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69MQ5E24402; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:26:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69MQ1A01497; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69MPwA01470 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sandy (ppp-449.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.55.67.195]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g69MPqOW027103 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:25:53 +1000 Message-Id: <200207092225.g69MPqOW027103@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Frojel Gotlandica" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2380) For Windows 2000 (5.0.2195;2) In-Reply-To: <3D2AAB99.5070100@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5154016=_=_=_" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie: "Druids" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Frojel Gotlandica" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:25:53 +1000 Status: RO --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5154016=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Strange it seems to be working fine from this end too. --Original Message Text--- From: Rose Amberwulf Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 02:23:37 -0700 Has anyone else try this website? I wasn't able to get anywhere with it= . I am quite eager to take a look at the beads. Roscelin Hi Folks OK the bead CD is now up on Professor Carlssons site. For those interested have a look at :- http://www16.aname.net/~arkeodok/ Fr=94jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. http://www.frojel.com/ frojel@frojel.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5154016=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Strange it seems to be working fine from thi= s end too.

--Original Message Text---
From: Rose Amberwulf
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 02:23:37 -0700

Has anyone else try this website? I wasn't able to get anywhere with it= . I am quite eager to take a look at the beads.

Roscelin

Hi Folks
OK the bead CD is now up on Professor Carlssons site.
For those interested have a look at :-
http://www16.aname.net/~arkeodok/=

Fr=F6jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society.
= http://www.frojel.com/
frojel@frojel.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5154016=_=_=_-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 18:48:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18417 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:48:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69MW1E25043; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69MW0A04707; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69MVXA04422 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:31:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.9b.2a1fe7ba (4241) for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:31:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: <9b.2a1fe7ba.2a5cbe3b@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9b.2a1fe7ba.2a5cbe3b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1027 - 17 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:31:23 EDT Status: RO --part1_9b.2a1fe7ba.2a5cbe3b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/02 12:05:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > I know we've all > moved past the idea that women just stopped wearing ANY corset in the > 1790's-1810's, but when did corsets start to change? > A literary costume note I've always found interesting: Mary Shelley's 1/2 sister Fanny commits suicide in 1816; Fanny is identified by her mother's stays that she's wearing. The stays must be circa at least 1795 (the year her mother died). So in 1816 she was wearing a 1795 (or earlier) corset. Made me wonder how long stays lasted, if you were not wealthy how long would you wear the same corset? Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com --part1_9b.2a1fe7ba.2a5cbe3b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/02 12:05:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes:


I know we've all
moved past the idea that women just stopped wearing ANY corset in the
1790's-1810's, but when did corsets start to change?


A literary costume note I've always found interesting: Mary Shelley's 1/2 sister Fanny commits suicide in 1816;  Fanny is identified by her mother's stays that she's wearing.  The stays must be circa at least 1795  (the year her mother died).  So in 1816 she was wearing a 1795 (or earlier) corset.  Made me wonder how long stays lasted, if you were not wealthy how long would you wear the same corset?

Cheers,

Loren Dearborn
marionetta@aol.com --part1_9b.2a1fe7ba.2a5cbe3b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 18:50:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18427 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:50:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69MYFE25309; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69MYEA05949; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69MXjA05665 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:33:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g69MZ5n52733 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:35:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207092235.g69MZ5n52733@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1027 - 17 msgs In-Reply-To: <9b.2a1fe7ba.2a5cbe3b@aol.com> "from Marionetta@aol.com at Jul 9, 2002 06:31:23 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO well, i have bras from high school still -- the special occasion ones at least -- and they aren't even well made. > In a message dated 7/8/02 12:05:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > > > > I know we've all > > moved past the idea that women just stopped wearing ANY corset in the > > 1790's-1810's, but when did corsets start to change? > > > > A literary costume note I've always found interesting: Mary Shelley's 1/2 > sister Fanny commits suicide in 1816; Fanny is identified by her mother's > stays that she's wearing. The stays must be circa at least 1795 (the year > her mother died). So in 1816 she was wearing a 1795 (or earlier) corset. > Made me wonder how long stays lasted, if you were not wealthy how long would > you wear the same corset? > > Cheers, > > Loren Dearborn > marionetta@aol.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 19:56:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18679 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:56:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Ne5E00721; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Ne0A07092; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Nd8A06818 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:39:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p157.directcon.net [209.233.107.157]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g69NcvKI029193; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:38:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020709164435.00e3c990@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions In-Reply-To: <104.183e050e.2a5caf6f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 16:44:35 -0700 Status: RO At 05:28 PM 07/09/2002 EDT, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >Margo.....shall I send you my method of doing it? Yes, please! >In the mean time see if you can find a sewing book from the 1950s or >earlier. It should have button flies in it. Unfortunately all my older sewing books ignore the topic of men's tailoring, and the newer ones only give zipper instructions. The frustrating thing is, I made a pair of slops about 8 years ago, and the client requested a buttoned fly. I remeber following directions in a book, but I can't figure out for the life of me which one it was! I'm planning to buy this book soon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0870054317/qid=1026236027/sr=2-1/ref= sr_2_1/104-5744739-8328736 in the hopes that it will answer this sort of question for me. Does anyone know if it includes button fly instructions? Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 20:00:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18693 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:00:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g69Ni1E00977; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69Ni0A08551; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f205.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.205]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g69NhRA08330 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:43:26 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.81 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 23:43:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.81] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2002 23:43:26.0502 (UTC) FILETIME=[6BB53C60:01C227A2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 16:43:26 -0700 Status: RO > >Help! Can anyone refer me to a book with clear instructions on how to >construct a button fly? > >I've been through all my sewing books and I'm starting to get really >frustrated. Esepecially with books titled things like "The Complete Book >of Tailoring" that don't even *mention* menswear>Margo >"One Tough Costumer" Check out THREADS Magazine's webpage. They have all kinds of things like that. Now that I think of it I think I'll go cruise around myself. ;) http://www.taunton.com/threads/index.asp Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 20:19:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18760 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:19:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A030E02104; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A030A15256; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f124.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.124]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A02vA15225 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:02:51 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.81 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:02:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.81] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2002 00:02:51.0733 (UTC) FILETIME=[223D6050:01C227A5] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 17:02:51 -0700 Status: RO >From: Margo Anderson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions >Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 10:32:00 -0700 > >Help! Can anyone refer me to a book with clear instructions on how to >construct a button fly? > >I've been through all my sewing books and I'm starting to get really >frustrated. Esepecially with books titled things like "The Complete Book >of Tailoring" that don't even *mention* menswear. It seems a rather large >area to ignore, after all. > >Margo I did find a company that sells a pattern for button fly trousers. http://www.tailorsguide.com/bf-trous.htm Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 21:02:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18922 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 21:02:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A0k2E04729; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A0k0A29361; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A0jvA29333 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net ([10.116.0.123]) by scanmail3.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:44:33 -0700 Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123] by scanmail3.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A36DBFD0208; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 17:44:32 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Tue, 09 Jul 2002 17:44:32 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions Message-ID: <001801c227ab$35345c30$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020709103200.00e34280@pop.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:46:19 -0500 Status: RO I've used several patterns for men's trousers with a button fly, and the best instructions I've found are in Laughing Moon's California pants. It's a very good pattern. http://www.lafnmoon.com/california_pants.htm Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 12:32 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Seeking Button Fly instructions Help! Can anyone refer me to a book with clear instructions on how to construct a button fly? I've been through all my sewing books and I'm starting to get really frustrated. Esepecially with books titled things like "The Complete Book of Tailoring" that don't even *mention* menswear. It seems a rather large area to ignore, after all. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 21:14:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18951 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 21:14:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A0w1E05171; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A0w0A03002; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A0vqA02952 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:57:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04078 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:21:50 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise In-Reply-To: <9.2aa28f09.2a5bf3c1@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:21:50 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 MaddNancy@aol.com wrote: > Looking through Italian Renaissance Interiors I came across a picture > of a Birth (may be the Virgin; may be John the Baptist: book says > Virgin; website says Baptist) by Giusto de' Menabuoi in the Cathedral > Baptistry in Padua (1376-78). I got very excited...there is a woman > wearing a sleeveless chemise that is belted under the breasts. I > would normally assume that she is the wetnurse, but she's wearing a > balzo, although that may indicate that the painter assumed that the > Baptist (or Virgin) would have a noble wetnurse. It's hard to tell from the online version, but is her right breast exposed through a nursing slit? If so, you've definitely got a wetnurse. Perhaps someone with a hardcopy reproduction of this image can tell us. Sure does look like a sleeveless chemise, and I'd consider this a pretty clear-cut source (the attendants look pretty realistic). There are some curious details throughout worth noting: the belt on the chemise, the lines (decoration? seams?) on the mother's gown/chemise, the general plumpness of the women, and the servant you already noticed with the shortsleeved chemise with the sleeveless gown. Next step: Find more art by this artist and compare styles and presentation. Then, if possible, other art from the same place and time to see if his quirks are unique or occur elsewhere. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 21:52:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19062 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 21:52:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A1a1E07309; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A1a0A14161; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.45]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A1ZqA14107 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:35:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.16] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZ0001J8DENS3@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 20:59:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20020709164435.00e3c990@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3.0.6.32.20020709164435.00e3c990@pop.directcon.net> Subject: [h-cost] A question from a friend Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 20:58:36 -0400 Status: RO My husband figured that I would know the answer to this question. And of course I wouldn't want to let him down. But a person at his work wanted to know the answer to this question. And the question is: > I was wondering if you could help me, do you know what the name of a > nightshirt or gown that was worn by a king called? This would be from the > 13th Century forward. I can't come up with anything other than an undershirt or chemise (but I thought those were women's wear). I will be sure to credit the correct answerer, of course. Any ideas? Linda K-S _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 22:57:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19535 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:57:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A2f1E10395; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A2f0A02811; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A2eRA02624 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-20-209.s209.apx3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.20.209] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17S7P0-0007Eg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 22:40:26 -0400 Message-ID: <3D2BA03F.9080606@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie: "Druids" References: <200207092225.g69MPqOW027103@grape.dcsi.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 22:47:27 -0400 Status: RO > *From:* Rose Amberwulf > *Date:* Tue, 09 Jul 2002 02:23:37 -0700 > > Has anyone else try this website? I wasn't able to get anywhere with it. > I am quite eager to take a look at the beads. Hi Roscelin- it works fine on my end, and I've tromped through the site as well. It's possible that you got caught by the same thing a friend of my got caught with: when the url was posted there was an extra underscore at the beginning and at the end of the address. The one at the beginning wasn't a problem because it was on a different line, but the one at the end seem to travel with the url. My first try gave me a 404 error message. I realized what probably happened and erased the line at the end and it worked just fine. Try this: http://www16.aname.net/~arkeodok/index.html -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 9 22:59:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19544 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:59:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A2h1E10451; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A2h1A03293; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6A2gCA03090 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:42:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26673 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2002 02:42:12 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2002 02:42:12 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-100-42.sonic.net [209.148.100.42]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g6A2gBv25219 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:42:11 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D2BA010.1A7282B@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] The 1796 nettlecloth dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 19:46:40 -0700 Status: RO The photos were someone supplied appear to have been scanned in from a modern copyrighted book, Ellen Anderson's _Moden 1790-1840_. This book includes a scale pattern of the same dress with notes. It also includes 18 other scale patterns for women's and men's garments, and many photos including those for which no pattern is provided. It was published in 1986 by the Nationalmuseet in Copenhagen. I think I bought mine from Fred Struthers--his email is fsbks@mcn.org. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 00:18:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19807 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:18:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A421E15064; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A420A27561; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A41hA27442 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-207-232-87-143.lincoln.radiks.net ([207.232.87.143] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17S8fd-0007LX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:01:41 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20020708233559.00a67ec0@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200207081008.g68A81D13834@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume College Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 23:41:48 -0500 Status: RO We're going to Costume College as well. We're teaching a class on Trims on Saturday at 1 pm, and a limited attendance workshop on creating headpieces and headdresses (mostly Fantasy oriented, but...) late Sunday afternoon. I at least will try to remember to put a red H on my badge. If you're going to the gala Saturday night, I will be in bright orange and yellow, and Pierre will be in black and silver gray. Sandy >From: AlbraKat@aol.com >I'll be going to Costumne College----and will be teaching the gold >bullion/metal thread /pearl embroidery class on saturday morning:) Arriving >friday late afternoon--leaving sunday by noon. I'll put a red H next to my >name on my name badge---Kathryn Wolters----and would love to meet up for an >h-costumne lunch. Hope to meet more of you there!! >Albra/Kathryn "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 01:06:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19919 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:06:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A4o3E17493; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A4o0A12192; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A4nqA12120 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:49:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.3c.20ea92c6 (16785) for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:49:38 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <3c.20ea92c6.2a5d16e1@aol.com> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_3c.20ea92c6.2a5d16e1_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:49:37 EDT Status: RO --part1_3c.20ea92c6.2a5d16e1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/9/02 2:02:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com writes: > I may be able to document that sleeveless chemise in Italy yet! Colleen, Remind me please, what exactly are you trying to document the sleeveless chemise for? Do you have any particular exterior garments that you want to recreate to wear over them? This area really fascinates me, so I'm really interested in what you've tried so far. This era and the clothes in Italy of that time are on my "wish list". I want to look like one of the babes in the Tacuinam Sanitatis! Nancy --part1_3c.20ea92c6.2a5d16e1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/9/02 2:02:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com writes:


I may be able to document that sleeveless chemise in Italy yet!


Colleen,

Remind me please, what exactly are you trying to document the sleeveless chemise for?  Do you have any particular exterior garments that you want to recreate to wear over them?  This area really fascinates me, so I'm really interested in what you've tried so far.  This era and the clothes in Italy of that time are on my "wish list".  I want to look like one of the babes in the Tacuinam Sanitatis!

Nancy --part1_3c.20ea92c6.2a5d16e1_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 01:30:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19980 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:30:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A5E1E18529; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 23:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A5E0A18618; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 23:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A5DbA18428 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 23:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.44.48]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020710051328.GBXE5870.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:13:28 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020709184449.00a2ee40@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Intro and Revolution In Fashion book Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 18:57:33 -0700 Status: RO Hello, everyone - My name is Julie, and I've been lurking here for a few months. Sort of waiting for the right moment (and the nerve) to jump in and join the fun. Costuming is a hobby I've indulged in as far back as I can remember. I just plain like to make costumes. Not professionally, but just for myself and sometimes some friends. I'm not really into the SCA or Ren Faire, my primary interest is the research and construction of the costumes themselves. My favorite time period has always been Regency (with some side trips to the Renaissance, both English and Italian). For the last few years I've been away from costuming, but lately I've gotten back into it and I've got several projects scattered around the house. I just recently converted part of (well, MOST of) the closet in the guest room to fabric storage so I can put my hands on anything in my fabric stash whenever I need to. I've got lots of questions and pleas for help, but that'll come later. First things first - I think I can help a bunch of people here. There's been some talk recently about the book The Revolution In Fashion from the Kyoto Costume Institute. I noticed every seemed to be in agreement that the book was out of print and unable to be found anywhere. Well, I just came across this book recently (I live near Los Angeles and was in AlterYears a few weeks ago and I drooled over the store copy) and of course the moment I saw it I knew I had to have a copy. I did a little searching on the Internet and found that most people were right, it was no where to be found. But then I decided to check the source and the end result is I'm sitting here with a brand new copy of Revolution In Fashion clutched in my hands as I type this! I found it at, of all places, the Kyoto Costume Institute website. They have it listed in their catalog, and I just emailed the contact person, received a reply within 24 hours, and here I am, two weeks later with the book. The best part, it cost just $30, and that included shipping from Kyoto! They said the only way they can ship it is C.O.D, which is a bit of a pain because I had to wait here for the delivery, but it was so worth it! Here's the address for the catalog page: http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/catalogue.cgi?lang=e If I was able to purchase it, I'm sure anyone else who wants a copy will be able to, too! I've got to go find a drool rag so I can sit down and enjoy the book! Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 01:42:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20003 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:42:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A5Q1E18989; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 23:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A5Q0A21699; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 23:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A5PlA21639 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 23:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05272 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:49:46 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise In-Reply-To: <3c.20ea92c6.2a5d16e1@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:49:46 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 MaddNancy@aol.com wrote: > This era and the clothes in Italy of that time are on my "wish list". > I want to look like one of the babes in the Tacuinam Sanitatis! Which Tacuinam? There are five or so manuscripts of that name whose illustrations are frequently reproduced, with some differences in style among them. They may be nominally Italian, but they're from Northern Italy, and in some of the manuscripts, the fashions are almost indistinguishable from the French. And, which Italy? If you're looking for "Italian" style, you need to consider which of the several distinct styles lumped under that name you actually mean. Each of the regions had its own look, and the farther south you go, the more it differs from Western Europe. For instance, the image we were just looking at, with the sleeveless chemise, is very different in look from what you see in many of the Tacuinum manuscripts. And this is one reason I don't go anywhere near Italian costume! I can't wrap my head around the degree of variation, and I've never tried to work out which of the variations line up with which of the regions. But I use some of the Tacuinum illustrations when I teach International Gothic fashions, because they fall close enough (geographically and stylistically) to the Franco-Flemish to be classed with them. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 02:33:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05084 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:33:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A6DiE22324; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:13:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A6DeA04191; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe39.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.96]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A694A03045 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 23:08:59 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020709184449.00a2ee40@postoffice.att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Intro and Revolution In Fashion book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2002 06:08:59.0183 (UTC) FILETIME=[47DC3BF0:01C227D8] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:09:47 -0400 Status: RO > I found it at, of all places, the Kyoto Costume Institute website. They > have it listed in their catalog, and I just emailed the contact person, > received a reply within 24 hours, and here I am, two weeks later with the > book. The best part, it cost just $30, and that included shipping from > Kyoto! They said the only way they can ship it is C.O.D, which is a bit of > a pain because I had to wait here for the delivery, but it was so worth it! > > Here's the address for the catalog > page: http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/catalogue.cgi?lang=e > If I was able to purchase it, I'm sure anyone else who wants a copy will be > able to, too! Oh, wow, THANKS!! Btw, there's one copy on ebay now, but last time I checked it was up to 92$ - and they don't ship to Canada :-) Your way is MUCH better!!! The worst thing is, I went to their website yesterday night, saw the video of the same name, didn't see the book... ehehe :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 03:33:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17388 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:33:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A7H1E28619; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A7H0A18821; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A7AiA17386 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020710071038.OVKQ29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:10:38 +0000 Message-ID: <3D2BDDED.1020707@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200207092225.g69MPqOW027103@grape.dcsi.net.au> <3D2BA03F.9080606@oldwaylane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] History of beads Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:10:37 -0700 Status: RO Thank you, Judy. It is working for me now with your correction. I can't wait to get the CD. I've been a beader for sometime, but have just started to think about working on a research paper about the use and history of beads. Roscelin Judy Mitchell wrote: >> *From:* Rose Amberwulf >> *Date:* Tue, 09 Jul 2002 02:23:37 -0700 >> >> Has anyone else try this website? I wasn't able to get anywhere with >> it. I am quite eager to take a look at the beads. > > > Hi Roscelin- > it works fine on my end, and I've tromped through the site as > well. It's possible that you got caught by the same thing a friend of > my got caught with: when the url was posted there was an extra > underscore at the beginning and at the end of the address. The one at > the beginning wasn't a problem because it was on a different line, but > the one at the end seem to travel with the url. My first try gave me a > 404 error message. I realized what probably happened and erased the > line at the end and it worked just fine. Try this: > http://www16.aname.net/~arkeodok/index.html > > > -Judy Mitchell > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 04:10:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25975 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 04:10:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A7s2E29499; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A7s1A26648; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6A7rnA26589 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020710075349.62468.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:53:49 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:53:49 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Jean Waddie wrote: > I have to say, the gentlemen in their coats and wigs were definitely the > spiffiest thing at the event - Huzzah! > > Jean Thanks Jean! *grins* wait till I have finished ben's coat for good and he has silver lace around the shoulders (two rows) and down the sides (two rows) and along the outside of the breeches (yet another two row) he's gonna be glow-in-the-dark-officer. hehehehe Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 04:54:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA30021 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 04:54:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A8c1E01495; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A8c0A06735; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A8bBA06559 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19302.; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:37:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:36:37 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6A8bBA06559 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:36:10 +0100 Status: RO Nicole, I wish I could have been there to see you all (though it was exciting singing in Beethoven's 9th in Derby Cathedral!) I spoke to a friend from our music group last night, but they seem to have spent all their spare time at the event watching another friend's American Civil War group. I'm most impressed with your hairstyle; I see you say it was a wig, but even so it must have taken a lot of skill and patience to arrange. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 05:06:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA30081 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:06:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A8o1E01937; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A8o0A09466; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6A8nLA09323 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020710084921.20112.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:49:21 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:49:21 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > Nicole, I wish I could have been there to see you all (though it was > exciting singing in Beethoven's 9th in Derby Cathedral!) Wow, now that does sound exciting indeed. I spoke to a friend > from our music group last night, but they seem to have spent all their spare > time at the event watching another friend's American Civil War group. We met some from the general's musick, do you know them? The ECW dance troupe. Very nice indeed. > I'm most impressed with your hairstyle; I see you say it was a wig, but even > so it must have taken a lot of skill and patience to arrange. *GRINS* No, no, the wig is actually made into this style. Ninya arranged the fontange onto he wig and all I do is pop on the wig cum fontange like a hat. Takes 2 ticks. Derek has arranged all the long hair of the wig in a bun, where the fontange cap sits on, and the front is fastened godness how wigmakers do it, but it is very sturdy. What I alys do is send the wig(s) back to him after the season to be washed and re-set. 35 quid per wig well spent! It enhances the life of them indefinitely. I just bought a human hair wig in the same colour though, long and straight, no bangs, which I can wear 'before' my hair is dressed. :-)) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 05:19:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA30133 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:19:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A931E02274; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A930A12435; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A92oA12374 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:02:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20984.; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:03:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:02:44 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6A92oA12374 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:02:06 +0100 Status: RO Nicole wrote: >We met some from the general's musick, do you know them? The ECW >dance troupe. >Very nice indeed. That *is* our group, though the dancers are actually an independent group, Renaissance Footnotes, who often join forces with us. We've just heard that we have been booked to appear together at the Museum of London in the New Year, which will be our most prestigious gig yet! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 05:46:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA30258 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:46:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A9U2E03100; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A9U1A16667; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A9TrA16626 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJXD9VXCTS00TMCW@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:29:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJXD9O64B4008EHH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:29:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:26:04 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:25:19 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.65) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:25:13 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] small towns In-reply-to: <200207091801.g69I1pA28416@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1321A370278@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:25:13 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Ah, this explains it all: to me, Dunstable is a suburb of Luton. > Just like Stopsley, where I grew up. And to get this at least > slightly back on topic, both close enough to the town centre to be > linked to the Luton hat-making industry, I think? Yep, though it was (dunno about now) still regarded a s a seperate town by the people living there and Dunstable had a reasonable rep of it's own for straw hatmaking too, at one time. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 06:14:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30355 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:14:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6A9w1E03937; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A9w1A23215; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6A9vTA23101 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:57:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p615-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.107] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17SEDv-00033C-00; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:57:27 +1200 Message-ID: <002f01c227f8$306abf30$6bc2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20020710084921.20112.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:57:22 +1200 Status: RO > *GRINS* No, no, the wig is actually made into this style. Ninya arranged the > fontange onto he wig and all I do is pop on the wig cum fontange like a hat. > Takes 2 ticks. Derek has arranged all the long hair of the wig in a bun, where > the fontange cap sits on, and the front is fastened godness how wigmakers do > it, but it is very sturdy. When I did my bit as Lady wishfort I used my own hair and merrily mocked the heck out of the style. Well Lady Wishfort is "of a certain age" and trying desperately to impress this bit of tasty crumpet and so I decided that she was overdoing the effort. I wound the front section of my hair around bobby pins and did loose ringlets at the back, pinned to the head.. and they started to fall out of place (which added to the comedy of me chasing this young man about the room). When the front section was unwound and brushed... well you could have used me to clean chimneys! I really wish I'd had photos.. I was a sight... But it was very easy to do and required no styling products thanks to the really tight curls. When we saw a production of it the next year, they seemed to have set it 50 years on in time. So yes, 1690-1710 is a very underdone era of fashion history. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 06:56:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30460 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:56:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AAe6E05325; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 04:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AAe1A03142; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 04:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AAdbA03037 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 04:39:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.82.1e182d22 (4534) for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:39:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <82.1e182d22.2a5d68df@aol.com> Subject: Re: Flax was Re: [h-cost] Nettles To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_82.1e182d22.2a5d68df_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:39:27 EDT Status: RO --part1_82.1e182d22.2a5d68df_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How WAS flax prepared? Any good website? How was it spun into thread? Or was > > it used as is to make very thin fabric? Does it grow around here? (here > being Montreal, Canada) As a kid, I went on a field trip in New York (USA) to a reenactment village. They let us spin our own flax. This is as much as I can remember.: Flax stalks looked like straw to me. They had a board that was maybe 8 inches wide and 1 inch thick standing upright about 3 feet high, mounted to a base. The board had a hole near the top where you put the ends of the flax strands; the rest of the flax hung along the board to be beaten with a paddle. I can't remember if the paddle was flat or spiked, but it was used to crack the hard outer shell of the plant off the soft inner fibers. Once the shells were off, you grabbed the bunch by the ends and wrapped them around a spindle. Ya held that up to about chest height and set it spinning. This gave you a loose yarn, some of which we made into bracelets as souveniers. The rest was then set on a spinning wheel to refine the yarn into thread, which was then looped onto a loom for weaving. My dictionary also says this.: "1.a. A plant of the genus Linum, esp. a widely cultivated species, L. usitatissimum, having blue flowers, seeds that yeild linseed oil, and slender stems from which a fine, light-colored textile fiber is obtained." I think the flowers were removed before spinning, as were any roots, because I only remember seeing clean pre-cut stems. Not sure where you'd get seeds, but hopefully my info was helpful. --Gillian --part1_82.1e182d22.2a5d68df_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
How WAS flax prepared? Any good website? How was it spun into thread? Or was
it used as is to make very thin fabric? Does it grow around here? (here
being Montreal, Canada)


As a kid, I went on a field trip in New York (USA) to a reenactment village.  They let us spin our own flax.  This is as much as I can remember.:

Flax stalks looked like straw to me.  They had a board that was maybe 8 inches wide and 1 inch thick standing upright about 3 feet high, mounted to a base.  The board had a hole near the top where you put the ends of the flax strands; the rest of the flax hung along the board to be beaten with a paddle.  I can't remember if the paddle was flat or spiked, but it was used to crack the hard outer shell of the plant off the soft inner fibers.  Once the shells were off, you grabbed the bunch by the ends and wrapped them around a spindle.  Ya held that up to about chest height and set it spinning.  This gave you a loose yarn, some of which we made into bracelets as souveniers.  The rest was then set on a spinning wheel to refine the yarn into thread, which was then looped onto a loom for weaving.

My dictionary also says this.:

"1.a.  A plant of the genus Linum, esp. a widely cultivated species, L. usitatissimum, having blue flowers, seeds that yeild linseed oil, and slender stems from which a fine, light-colored textile fiber is obtained."

I think the flowers were removed before spinning, as were any roots, because I only remember seeing clean pre-cut stems.  Not sure where you'd get seeds, but hopefully my info was helpful.

--Gillian --part1_82.1e182d22.2a5d68df_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 07:50:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA30567 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:50:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ABW2E07149; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ABW1A15134; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ABVTA15022 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:31:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.18e.a6993ce (4534) for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:30:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <18e.a6993ce.2a5d74ee@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_18e.a6993ce.2a5d74ee_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:30:54 EDT Status: RO --part1_18e.a6993ce.2a5d74ee_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend > That gown is TO DIE FOR!!! And that's not even my period (Elizabethan). Please tell me more about that Russian source for the black and silver brocade! --Gillian --part1_18e.a6993ce.2a5d74ee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend

That gown is TO DIE FOR!!!  And that's not even my period (Elizabethan).  Please tell me more about that Russian source for the black and silver brocade!


--Gillian
 --part1_18e.a6993ce.2a5d74ee_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 08:19:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30668 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:19:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AC11E08173; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AC10A21471; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AC0WA21324 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:00:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.136]) by mail.compassnet.com.au (8.11.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id g6ABxl717145 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:59:47 +1000 Message-ID: <004701c22809$533b3100$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20020710084921.20112.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:59:39 +1000 Status: RO Nicole, Now this IS dedication!! I just bought a human hair wig in the same colour > though, long and straight, no bangs, which I can wear 'before' my hair is > dressed. :-)) Glenda. Can't cope with the idea of getting heatstroke over there, though - our current (winter) temps are about the same as yours is now - I don't feel the heat until about 35C, and don't really suffer until the heat is over body temp. - don't try me in the cold, though :-) Hope you're feeling better now. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 08:19:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30672 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:19:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AC19E08191; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AC19A21520; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AC0wA21459 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:00:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a262.in-tch.com [66.62.107.62]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6ABlHP29327 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D2C234E.CFD2C564@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend References: <20020710075349.62468.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:06:38 -0600 Status: RO He almost is, already, with the scarlet of that coat! You guys look *great*! Besides enjoying how great Ben looks (what is it about good clothes and long hair on men...yum, yum ), I also drooled at your fabric (for the mantua? some sort of grey and silver brocade?), and your description of all the places you used to acquire bits of your outfits....I sure wish I had some of your resources! About the event at which these photos were taken...was this an event wholey dedicated to just this time period? or one of those mass events I hear about, with a whole bunch of different time periods and encampments? Were you doing it purely for yourselves, or were you also available to the public? (my group pretty much does it for the former reason, but I've heard of groups that do it for the latter...) --Sue, up early so she can work on her eternal (darned near "infernal") blackwork project, and think about the early period Norse outfit she's planning (*sigh*....so many centuries, so little time.....;-) N Kipar wrote: > > --- Jean Waddie wrote: > I have to say, the > gentlemen in their coats and wigs were definitely the > > spiffiest thing at the event - Huzzah! > > > > Jean > > Thanks Jean! *grins* wait till I have finished ben's coat for good and he has > silver lace around the shoulders (two rows) and down the sides (two rows) and > along the outside of the breeches (yet another two row) he's gonna be > glow-in-the-dark-officer. > hehehehe > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 09:05:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30874 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:05:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ACn1E09895; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ACn0A03557; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ACmxA03544 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJXK8M390W00ABMZ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:48:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJXK8J051M00C2E1@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:48:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:45:09 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:44:38 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.65) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:44:31 +0000 From: Teddy To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1356CAA6636@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: Intro on h-cost.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:44:31 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Hi Julie, Welcome to h-costume! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 09:35:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30956 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:35:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ADJ1E11277; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ADJ0A11691; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6ADIWA11552 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020710131831.12738.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:18:31 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D2C234E.CFD2C564@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:18:31 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > He almost is, already, with the scarlet of that coat! actually, not kidding, he does kinda glow, we walked back to the tents from the beertent and I thought he was rather visible. :-) > You guys look *great*! Besides enjoying how great Ben looks (what is it > about good clothes and long hair on men...yum, yum ), hehe, he really does have long hair underneath the wig. I also drooled > at your fabric (for the mantua? some sort of grey and silver brocade?), black silk and silver thread, it looks greyish in the photos but is actually silver. > and your description of all the places you used to acquire bits of your > outfits....I sure wish I had some of your resources! oh, most of it is online! only a small amount of things comes from the UK. > About the event at which these photos were taken...was this an event > wholey dedicated to just this time period? or one of those mass events I > hear about, with a whole bunch of different time periods and > encampments? It was a multi-period event, which are my favourites. Hundreds of re-enactors of almost all time periods, fantastic. This year for the first time we had Greek hoplites! Were you doing it purely for yourselves, or were you also > available to the public? (my group pretty much does it for the former > reason, but I've heard of groups that do it for the latter...) actually, 'classic' re-enactors work for the public. people who don't aren't seen as re-enactors but as people who like costumes. (waits to get stick for that now, but it's true!) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 09:53:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31067 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:53:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ADb1E12458; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ADb0A18053; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6ADa3A17742 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020710133602.99129.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:36:02 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <004701c22809$533b3100$eaf4fea9@glendaii> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:36:02 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Glenda Robinson wrote: > > Can't cope with the idea of getting heatstroke over there, though - our > current (winter) temps are about the same as yours is now - I don't feel > the heat until about 35C, and don't really suffer until the heat is over > body temp. - don't try me in the cold, though :-) Hope you're feeling better > now. *laughs* I think I would die iver at your place. I hate heat, hate it with a deep vengeance. My skin is white, my eyes are pale, my organism needs several liters of water, my brain doesn't function when it's too warm, and my ancestors come from Russia. 20 celsius and a gentle breeze under a sunny sky, that is perfect for costumes! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 09:59:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31079 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:59:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ADh1E12754; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ADh0A19713; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ADgNA19511 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Inkie1@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.19e.4fcfd6a (3866) for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:42:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Inkie1@aol.com Message-ID: <19e.4fcfd6a.2a5d93b3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] aurora bleacheries - help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:42:11 EDT Status: RO I'm one of those people "lurking" in the background, enjoying all the information and glad to be able to offer some in return. We used to live in Chicago area, and are now in St. Louis area, so I've used the Aurora Bleachery, but not recently. Their new name is Aurora Textile Finishing, and the old telphone number is still good: (630)-892-7651. I called, and a recording says the remnant shop is open Monday through Friday, 9 to 2:30. The recording gives directions from I-88 (East-West Tollroad): exit at Route 31 (Lake St.) south to Aurora, go 5 stop lights, turn left onto service road. From there the directions get complicated, so I assume they are still in the old location, but the little access road has changed due to construction. I suggest you call them for complete directions. For those who are not familiar with the Aurora Bleachery, they sell cotton and cotton blend remnants by weight, of whatever fabrics they are finishing, from a small area within their plant. I used to buy white, black and unbleached muslin from them for making shirts. As far as I know, they only sell if you go to the plant. Hope this helps. Carol Inkpen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 10:15:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31169 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ADx1E13787; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ADx1A25023; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ADwWA24837 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m159.in-tch.com [216.166.191.159]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6ADipP00564 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D2C3EDC.7FF27F14@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend References: <20020710133602.99129.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:04:12 -0600 Status: RO *snort* You sound like me! Except that my ancestors came from Britain and Ireland , and I have the fair (freckled/pink) skin and blue eyes to show for it, although I'm brown-haired. I've learned to deal with the extreme temperatures in my part of the world (Montana in the U.S., not Australia), but I completely *loathe* heat, and I sunburn very badly unless I'm careful. I'm at my best, mentally and physically, when it's in the 60s and low 70s (farenheit, not sure of celsius equivalent). Made me wonder, more than once, how much of heat/cold tolerance is acquired (i.e., just a matter of what you're used to), and how much of it may be inherited in some way. --Sue N Kipar wrote: > > --- Glenda Robinson wrote: > > > > Can't cope with the idea of getting heatstroke over there, though - our > > current (winter) temps are about the same as yours is now - I don't feel > > the heat until about 35C, and don't really suffer until the heat is over > > body temp. - don't try me in the cold, though :-) Hope you're feeling better > > now. > > *laughs* I think I would die iver at your place. I hate heat, hate it with a > deep vengeance. My skin is white, my eyes are pale, my organism needs several > liters of water, my brain doesn't function when it's too warm, and my ancestors > come from Russia. > > 20 celsius and a gentle breeze under a sunny sky, that is perfect for costumes! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 10:39:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31282 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:39:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AEN2E15397; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AEN1A04754; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.16]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AEMuA04706 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:22:56 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C2281D.28BD1C40" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise Thread-Index: AcInzTqKEDT/RJTxRrOK4OhSXyxPygATsZgg From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:22:02 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2281D.28BD1C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nancy wrote:=20 << Remind me please, what exactly are you trying to document the = sleeveless chemise for? >> =20 I'm gearing up to enter a complete Italian outfit (around 1350-1365, = Florence) in a big competition next March, something along the lines of = the purple dress in the Last Judgment (Nardo di Cione, Santa Maria = Novella, 1350). I want to have everything as documented as possible = (well, and still finish on time). I'm starting with the chemise and = working from the skin out. =20 =20 Here's a link to the picture: = http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/n/nardo/index.html. =20 I'm also working to learn tablet/card weaving to recreate the trim on = the neck line and wrists of the garment. =20 I've completed a more generic 14th century Italian dress for a previous = competition at a lower level, so now I'm refining my research. =20 Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions so far! =20 Colleen ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2281D.28BD1C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Nancy=20 wrote: 
<< Remind=20 me please, what exactly are you trying to document the sleeveless = chemise=20 for? >>
 
I'm gearing up to enter a complete Italian = outfit=20 (around 1350-1365, Florence) in a big competition next March, something = along=20 the lines of the purple dress in the Last Judgment (Nardo di Cione, = Santa Maria=20 Novella, 1350).  I want to have everything as documented as = possible (well,=20 and still finish on time).  I'm starting with the chemise and = working from=20 the skin out. 
 
Here's a link to the picture: http://www.kfk= i.hu/~arthp/html/n/nardo/index.html.
 
I'm also working to learn tablet/card weaving = to=20 recreate the trim on the neck line and wrists of the=20 garment.
 
I've completed a more generic 14th century = Italian=20 dress for a previous competition at a lower level, so now I'm refining = my=20 research.
 
Thanks to everyone for the help and = suggestions so=20 far!
 
Colleen
------_=_NextPart_001_01C2281D.28BD1C40-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 12:46:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00735 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:46:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AGT3E27837; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AGT1A12315; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AGSdA12095 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.142] (pm5-142.eos.net [205.133.149.142]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13880 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:28:37 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200207091801.g69I1lA28371@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] devonshire tapestries Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:28:39 -0400 Status: RO Dear all-knowing List: For some reason my internet service isn't connecting today, but my email is. Does anyone know an on-line source for pictures of the "Devonshire Tapestries"? A friend is looking and I can't search. They are a set of tapestries, apparently, with hunting scenes. A color print source would be good, too. She has seen only a B&W of one of the panels? tapestries? figures? She is particularly interested in a figure of a falconer, but she would like to see any and all. I thought someone here might know. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 12:57:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00994 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:57:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AGf1E29343; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AGf0A19346; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AGe9A18935 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:40:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCkf+DnFv+/421mbkRL7jkQZ1inVE//2zLA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G7DC8KAA; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:38:15 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] devonshire tapestries Message-ID: <20020710.113611.-563463.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-12,14-37 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:36:11 -0500 Status: RO The Devonshire Tapestries are huge wall hangings which are in the Victoria and Albert in London. The figures are mostly life size. I have several slides of the tapestries which I got at the V&A for research purposes. If you can contact the museum, they may still have them available. The figures have wonderful clothing, some of which I suspect is a bit fantastical, but the more bucolic figures seem to be more realistic. I don't know of a good print source, that's why I got the slides! Karen On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:28:39 -0400 Gail & Scott Finke writes: > > Dear all-knowing List: > > For some reason my internet service isn't connecting today, but my > email is. > Does anyone know an on-line source for pictures of the "Devonshire > Tapestries"? A friend is looking and I can't search. They are a set > of > tapestries, apparently, with hunting scenes. A color print source > would be > good, too. She has seen only a B&W of one of the panels? > tapestries? > figures? She is particularly interested in a figure of a falconer, > but she > would like to see any and all. I thought someone here might know. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 13:12:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01305 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AGu2E03022; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AGu1A29605; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AGtqA29509 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08377 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:19:53 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] devonshire tapestries In-Reply-To: <20020710.113611.-563463.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:19:53 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > The Devonshire Tapestries are huge wall hangings which are in the > Victoria and Albert in London. The figures are mostly life size. I > have several slides of the tapestries which I got at the V&A for > research purposes. If you can contact the museum, they may still have > them available. The figures have wonderful clothing, some of which I > suspect is a bit fantastical, but the more bucolic figures seem to be > more realistic. I don't know of a good print source, that's why I got > the slides! The good print source is this: _The Devonshire Hunting Tapestries_, by George Wingfield Digby. London: Victoria & Albert Museum, 1971. It's hardback, about 12x12, with full foldouts of all four tapestries, closeups (some in color) of interesting details, and LOTS of good analysis. Be sure to read the text. It's important to know that the tapestries were not originally made as a set, but were combined to form a set, and the dates on them differ. That means you can't safely mix and match details from the indiscriminately. Also, because this style of tapestry was practically mass-produced in workshops (which often recombined pieces of cartoons of different dates) and because these particular ones have undergone some alterations, there are other dating problems. I am dead certain, for instance, that one figure (wearing a princess-seamed dress on her overgown, a flounced hem on her undergown, and a partlet!) was a later repair or addition. There are many such anomalies in the tapestries, and it's worth reading the analysis to sort some of it out. I would not recommend the costume analysis section, however. I'd guess the book is available ILL. I was at the V&A in the early 80s when it was still on sale. It cost me about $10. I should have bought the whole stack. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 13:55:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02324 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:55:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AHd8E07683; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:39:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AHd5A25161; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AHc9A24530 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6AHdNb59781 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207101739.g6AHdNb59781@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Intro and Revolution In Fashion book In-Reply-To: "from Audrey Bergeron-Morin at Jul 10, 2002 02:09:47 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO thanks for the info! who did you email to get the book? I emailed their "info" address but I wasn't sure if it was the right one. > > I found it at, of all places, the Kyoto Costume Institute website. They > > have it listed in their catalog, and I just emailed the contact person, > > received a reply within 24 hours, and here I am, two weeks later with the > > book. The best part, it cost just $30, and that included shipping from > > Kyoto! They said the only way they can ship it is C.O.D, which is a bit of > > a pain because I had to wait here for the delivery, but it was so worth > it! > > > > Here's the address for the catalog > > page: http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/catalogue.cgi?lang=e > > If I was able to purchase it, I'm sure anyone else who wants a copy will > be > > able to, too! > > Oh, wow, THANKS!! Btw, there's one copy on ebay now, but last time I checked > it was up to 92$ - and they don't ship to Canada :-) Your way is MUCH > better!!! > > The worst thing is, I went to their website yesterday night, saw the video > of the same name, didn't see the book... ehehe :-) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 14:52:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03583 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:52:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AIa3E13177; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AIa1A26764; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AIYVA25972 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17SMII-000CKz-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:34:30 +0100 Message-ID: <+i$hDJDQwHL9Iw4B@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend References: <20020710075349.62468.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20020710075349.62468.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:25:20 +0100 Status: RO N Kipar wrote > --- Jean Waddie wrote: > I have to say, the >gentlemen in their coats and wigs were definitely the >> spiffiest thing at the event - Huzzah! >> >> Jean > >Thanks Jean! *grins* wait till I have finished ben's coat for good and he has >silver lace around the shoulders (two rows) and down the sides (two rows) and >along the outside of the breeches (yet another two row) he's gonna be >glow-in-the-dark-officer. >hehehehe > >Nicole > We'll have to match him with someone in a tansy-dyed surcoat and see who glows best! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 16:47:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04485 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:47:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AKV3E24063; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AKV0A02490; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe48.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.20]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AKUrA02399 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:30:48 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <82.1e182d22.2a5d68df@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2002 20:30:48.0122 (UTC) FILETIME=[ACCA29A0:01C22850] Subject: [h-cost] EBay? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:31:34 -0400 Status: RO Hi, Those of you who regularly sell on EBay, could you give me your IDs so I can take a look once in a while? Also, if you have AMAZING merchants you would love other people to buy from, I'd take a look... Thanks! Audrey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 17:17:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04614 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:17:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AL12E27101; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AL11A19915; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AKxvA19263 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:59:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www2.prodigy.net (www2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.61.49]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6AKxum16852 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:59:56 -0400 To: "H-Costume" Message-Id: From: "Angela F. Lazear" Subject: [h-cost] Testing new address/ot Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:59:56 -0500 Status: RO Dear List After some confusion and missteps, I have unsubbed as "mzscahlett" and resubbed under this email. This is a test to see if I've done it all properly. Sorry for the misuse of bandwidth, but I just had to be sure I hadn't lost y'all forever. angela Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 17:28:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04655 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:28:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ALC3E28361; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ALC0A26812; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ALBnA26740 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:11:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.52.227.179] ([24.52.227.179]) by smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 smtprelay6 Dec 7 2001 09:58:59) with ESMTP id GZ1XJI00.9DX for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:11:42 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3D2C3EDC.7FF27F14@in-tch.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:11:41 -0400 Status: RO can i add a most enthusiastic "me too"? i'm of dutch/english/scottish descent on my mom's side and french-canadian/indian (wyandot) on my father's. blue eyes, brown hair and freckles. can't do heat for nothin'. humidity is even worse. as my hair gets bigger, so do the complaints:) right now i'm preparing for our big yearly event in the sca (pennsic war) and i'm working through a large pile of linen. we're hoping (as we do every year) that it'll be a cool war. we'll see. laurie > *snort* You sound like me! Except that my ancestors came from Britain > and Ireland , and I have the fair (freckled/pink) skin and blue > eyes to show for it, although I'm brown-haired. I've learned to deal > with the extreme temperatures in my part of the world (Montana in the > U.S., not Australia), but I completely *loathe* heat, and I sunburn very > badly unless I'm careful. I'm at my best, mentally and physically, when > it's in the 60s and low 70s (farenheit, not sure of celsius > equivalent). Made me wonder, more than once, how much of heat/cold > tolerance is acquired (i.e., just a matter of what you're used to), and > how much of it may be inherited in some way. > --Sue > > N Kipar wrote: >> >> --- Glenda Robinson wrote: > >> >>> Can't cope with the idea of getting heatstroke over there, though - our >>> current (winter) temps are about the same as yours is now - I don't feel >>> the heat until about 35C, and don't really suffer until the heat is over >>> body temp. - don't try me in the cold, though :-) Hope you're feeling better >>> now. >> >> *laughs* I think I would die iver at your place. I hate heat, hate it with a >> deep vengeance. My skin is white, my eyes are pale, my organism needs several >> liters of water, my brain doesn't function when it's too warm, and my >> ancestors >> come from Russia. >> >> 20 celsius and a gentle breeze under a sunny sky, that is perfect for >> costumes! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 18:05:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04917 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:05:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ALn2E03452; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ALn1A19529; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ALmOA19129 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:48:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ100GO9Z8MD4@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:48:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] EBay? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020710135157.00cc2480@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <82.1e182d22.2a5d68df@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:02:24 -0700 Status: RO >Those of you who regularly sell on EBay, could you give me your IDs so I can >take a look once in a while? >Also, if you have AMAZING merchants you would love other people to buy from, >I'd take a look... Yes. It seems perfectly on-topic to post this sort of info. I have just begun to browse e-bay regularly, and even bought something a couple of days ago (some lace bits the dealer called 'costume accessories'). Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 18:44:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05755 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:44:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AMS2E09050; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AMS0A12911; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AMR8A12448 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A55242501F8; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:29:38 -0500 Message-ID: <013c01c22860$f2b64c40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing new address/ot X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:27:16 -0400 Status: RO I see you Angela! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela F. Lazear" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] Testing new address/ot > Dear List > > After some confusion and missteps, I have unsubbed > as "mzscahlett" and resubbed under this email. This > is a test to see if I've done it all properly. Sorry > for the misuse of bandwidth, but I just had to be sure > I hadn't lost y'all forever. > > angela > Cabbage Rose Costumes > Theatrical Costume Design > www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 19:12:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06303 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AMu1E13207; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AMu0A28711; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AMtpA28617 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:55:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AC0D89701C4; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:58:21 -0500 Message-ID: <016e01c22864$f4976b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Costume Trivia Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:55:57 -0400 Status: RO This past week I have run across some costume trivia that I thought I'd share... >From a 1923 Lane Bryant catalog: Ladies coats with fur collars and cuffs made from possum or dyed skunk (you get a choice of either fur). Make you think of the cartoon with Peppy la Pew following the lady with the black and white stole! LOL! >From one of our classes, Cowgirls and Shady Ladies: Prostitutes in western boomtowns were required by law to wear yellow dresses. This was to distinguish them from the average female citizens. Now I have a trivial question... I am working on fashion designers of the 1920s. I keep coming across a designer named Madeleine & Madeleine from 1920-1925. I have searched my books and all I can find are design illustrations but no history of the designer. Could this be Vionnet? Whoever it is, is a Paris design house. I know Vionnet opened her design house in 1912. But did she go under the name Vionnet then? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 19:24:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06556 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:24:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6AN81E14847; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AN80A05013; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6AN73A04550 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.49.202a624a (16087) for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d04.webmail.aol.com [205.188.138.68]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.15) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-0710190654; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:06:54 -0400 From: kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <7E7F24B0.772028DA.0F933E1F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Prices Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:07:00 -0400 Status: RO Greetings All! I was just wondering how have your spending habits changed over time while you have been costuming? Have your spending habits gone up or down? Also, your fabric choices; better, worse? For me, although my fabric choices have gotten "better" (for the most part) I have gotten cheaper. For example: I will find a beautiful fine linen, but am no longer willing to spend $15.00 a yard on it. (And I started shopping in the LA Garment District.) Thanks in advance for indulging my curiosity. I am looking forward to the responses. Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 19:51:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07169 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:51:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ANZFE16779; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:35:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANZEA16056; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANYOA15721 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:34:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.46.64]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020710233417.CLAP5870.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:34:17 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020710112312.00a35840@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Intro and Revolution In Fashion book In-Reply-To: <200207101801.g6AI1fA07751@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:26:13 -0700 Status: RO I just emailed the info address. It looks weird, but they answered within a day or so. The book IS there, I just looked. It's listed at 2200 yen, which is about $22. There's also a video, which is 15000 yen. That's too steep for me, that's $150!! At 11:01 AM 7/10/2002, you wrote:Message: 10 >From: Heather Meadows >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Intro and Revolution In Fashion book >To: h-costume@indra.com >Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:39:23 -0700 (PDT) >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > >thanks for the info! who did you email to get the book? I emailed >their "info" address but I wasn't sure if it was the right one. > > > > > I found it at, of all places, the Kyoto Costume Institute website. They > > > have it listed in their catalog, and I just emailed the contact person, > > > received a reply within 24 hours, and here I am, two weeks later with the > > > book. The best part, it cost just $30, and that included shipping from > > > Kyoto! They said the only way they can ship it is C.O.D, which is a > bit of > > > a pain because I had to wait here for the delivery, but it was so worth > > it! > > > > > > Here's the address for the catalog > > > page: http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/catalogue.cgi?lang=e > > > If I was able to purchase it, I'm sure anyone else who wants a copy will > > be > > > able to, too! > > > > Oh, wow, THANKS!! Btw, there's one copy on ebay now, but last time I > checked > > it was up to 92$ - and they don't ship to Canada :-) Your way is MUCH > > better!!! > > > > The worst thing is, I went to their website yesterday night, saw the video > > of the same name, didn't see the book... ehehe :-) > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > >--__--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >End of h-costume Digest _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 19:52:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07187 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:52:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ANZ2E16745; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANZ0A15958; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANYKA15689 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-153.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.153]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6ANYJ4279030 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:34:19 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c2286a$b6e1a200$992caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <013c01c22860$f2b64c40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing new address/funny story ot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:37:11 -0700 Status: RO You all have to laugh at me. Late last night, I added cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net as my new email. Then I promptly lost the paper with my "oh so clever" password on it. Then I spent all morning trying to hack into my confirmation of resubbing to the list (in this total panic that I had cut myself off from you forever)... Result: couldn't do it and had to add another form of cabbage_rose. Now I have two emails, but this time I've protected myself. Not only did I print the dang password I select remember it so the computer will know it at home AND then I happily confirm my re-subscription. Am I home free? No, I'm such an idiot I promptly hid "add to block" and put h-costume in the spam bucket. Frantically.... I search for the way to undo this drastic and nefarious deed ... Heart racing... blood pounding... I hastily attempt to undo this error. Have I again sent H-costume into the nightmare world of silence? Will I ever hear from corset makers and ruff experts EVER again? Is the world of lovely seams and pretty fabrics forever gone?.... Okay, a bit dramatic, but I was freaking out. This was my third sub, and I had messed it up again. (I forgot I accidentally subbed to my work addy cause I was really tired this morning, but I just didn't confirm that one)... So then, I get it back, I undo the dreaded "this is spam" block on the h-costume email and reload the page... only to discover I had reblocked it! Needless to say, if you're all getting this, it's fixed. Holey Moley what a day. See what you've done? I'm reduced to jello at the thought of going cold h-costume-less turkey for a mere two hours... I think I was momentarily possessed by the spirit of one of Teddy's misadventures. Happy to have found my rather roundabout way home. angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing new address/ot > I see you Angela! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angela F. Lazear" > To: "H-Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:59 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Testing new address/ot > > > > Dear List > > > > After some confusion and missteps, I have unsubbed > > as "mzscahlett" and resubbed under this email. This > > is a test to see if I've done it all properly. Sorry > > for the misuse of bandwidth, but I just had to be sure > > I hadn't lost y'all forever. > > > > angela > > Cabbage Rose Costumes > > Theatrical Costume Design > > www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 19:54:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07234 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:54:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ANb1E16893; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANb0A16831; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANaQA16577 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:36:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6ANbnT62949 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207102337.g6ANbnT62949@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Intro and Revolution In Fashion book In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020710112312.00a35840@postoffice.att.net> "from Kiloran@worldnet.att.net at Jul 10, 2002 11:26:13 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO ok -- I haven't heard back from them yet, but at least I know it was the right address. > I just emailed the info address. It looks weird, but they answered within a > day or so. > > The book IS there, I just looked. It's listed at 2200 yen, which is about > $22. There's also a video, which is 15000 yen. That's too steep for me, > that's $150!! > > At 11:01 AM 7/10/2002, you wrote:Message: 10 > >From: Heather Meadows > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Intro and Revolution In Fashion book > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:39:23 -0700 (PDT) > >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > >thanks for the info! who did you email to get the book? I emailed > >their "info" address but I wasn't sure if it was the right one. > > > > > > > > I found it at, of all places, the Kyoto Costume Institute website. They > > > > have it listed in their catalog, and I just emailed the contact person, > > > > received a reply within 24 hours, and here I am, two weeks later with the > > > > book. The best part, it cost just $30, and that included shipping from > > > > Kyoto! They said the only way they can ship it is C.O.D, which is a > > bit of > > > > a pain because I had to wait here for the delivery, but it was so worth > > > it! > > > > > > > > Here's the address for the catalog > > > > page: http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/catalogue.cgi?lang=e > > > > If I was able to purchase it, I'm sure anyone else who wants a copy will > > > be > > > > able to, too! > > > > > > Oh, wow, THANKS!! Btw, there's one copy on ebay now, but last time I > > checked > > > it was up to 92$ - and they don't ship to Canada :-) Your way is MUCH > > > better!!! > > > > > > The worst thing is, I went to their website yesterday night, saw the video > > > of the same name, didn't see the book... ehehe :-) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > >--__--__-- > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > >End of h-costume Digest > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 19:57:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07302 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:57:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ANf2E17199; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANf0A18464; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANemA18377 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:40:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ200F114FYB0@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:40:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia In-reply-to: <016e01c22864$f4976b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020710162154.00c49340@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:24:58 -0700 Status: RO > >From one of our classes, Cowgirls and Shady Ladies: >Prostitutes in western boomtowns were required by law to wear yellow >dresses. This was to distinguish them from the average female citizens. Every single Western boomtown, in every state and territory, in Canada and the US, in every year? I find that amount of co-operation and co-ordination, in a time of no mass media other than a telegraph (when they even had that), unbelievable. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 19:57:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07315 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:57:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ANfRE17238; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:41:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANfQA18667; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:41:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANemA18387 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:40:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ200F114FYB0@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:40:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices In-reply-to: <7E7F24B0.772028DA.0F933E1F@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020710162520.00ccd9d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:40:39 -0700 Status: RO >Have your spending habits gone up or down? Down. I have a lot less money than when I was married. > Also, your fabric choices; better, worse? Better in several ways: I no longer cruise fabric stores (or thrift stores) just to see what's there. That got me in a lot of trouble, storage-space-wise and financially. Much of that impulse stuff got given away when, for example, I stopped thinking I was going to get into quilting. Many boxes of calico went. I can tell the difference between natural and synthetic now, when a few years ago I couldn't do this very well, so now, when I do buy, I buy more silk, real linen, etc. than before. I try not to buy something just because I can think of a use for it, a big change from my young and married days, when I would buy anything that was pretty or that I could think of a use for. Some of that fabric is my current stash, and some got given away. These days I only buy fabric for specific purposes, or costumes when I have some event to wear it to. I shop more sales, outlets, and thrift stores than I used to, and make myself do entire outfits from fabric I already have, as much as possible. Time to use up that stash. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 20:04:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07475 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:04:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ANm1E17633; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANm0A21490; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ANlYA21315 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:47:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id RAA04569 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:07:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207110007.RAA04569@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >From one of our classes, Cowgirls and Shady Ladies: > >Prostitutes in western boomtowns were required by law to wear yellow > >dresses. This was to distinguish them from the average female citizens. > > Every single Western boomtown, in every state and territory, in Canada and > the US, in every year? I find that amount of co-operation and > co-ordination, in a time of no mass media other than a telegraph (when they > even had that), unbelievable. Agreed. I think someone misunderstood "yellow rose of texas." A yellow gal or yellow girl was a creole, half-black. They were often free women, but that didn't mean they had much money. In many places, yellow gals made up most of the whorehouse "stable." This seems to have been concatinated with the commonly repeated factoid that whores in classical rome wore yellow veils. I call this a factoid because I've also heard it said about Byzantium and various renaissance period italian city-states. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 20:38:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08162 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:38:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B0M1E19618; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B0M0A03147; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B0LfA03004 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.184.ae22268 (657) for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:21:34 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: <184.ae22268.2a5e298d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:21:33 EDT Status: RO Kayta's experiences echo my own :) I used to spend a lot more $$--- and shop a lot less wisely----as well as buy things I did'nt have a specific use for --JUST because it was gorgeous and/or a good buy or it would make a TERRIFIC (fill in the blank). Can't afford to do that stuff anymore. Knowledge and experience has taught me to shop much more wisely for more quality stuff---and buy only what I have a specific use for in the VERY near future:) Cheers and Best--- Albra/Kathryn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 20:57:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08212 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:57:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B0f1E20780; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B0f0A08954; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B0eZA08812 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A4971380218; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:43:03 -0500 Message-ID: <01b401c22873$8d9e3120$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <200207110007.RAA04569@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:40:27 -0400 Status: RO Wait... I didn't say every boomtown. I sent a message to our instructor, Marna Jean and have her come on the list and explain this one. Hang in there... hopefully she will come on tonight. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 20:58:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08222 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B0h1E20912; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B0h1A09632; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx12.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B0gZA09483 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:42:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx12.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 43535547 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:42:02 -0400 Message-ID: <006c01c22873$a1a217e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <7E7F24B0.772028DA.0F933E1F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:41:00 -0500 Status: RO Oh, my choices have definitely become more refined - I REALLY try to keep to 100% natural. But I do really try to keep the prices down - watch those sales! Actually, one of my favorite places is Vogue Fabrics in Evanston. If you dig through their remant section, you can often find 2 or 3 pieces of the same fabric for about 1/2 the price off the bolt! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 6:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Prices > Greetings All! > > I was just wondering how have your spending habits changed over time while you have been costuming? Have your spending habits gone up or down? Also, your fabric choices; better, worse? > > For me, although my fabric choices have gotten "better" (for the most part) I have gotten cheaper. For example: I will find a beautiful fine linen, but am no longer willing to spend $15.00 a yard on it. (And I started shopping in the LA Garment District.) > > Thanks in advance for indulging my curiosity. I am looking forward to the responses. > Kit > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 21:21:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08379 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:21:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B151E21965; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B151A16227; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B14fA16073 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip177.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.177]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g6B14bV5008207 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200207110104.g6B14bV5008207@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend In-Reply-To: <20020709203353.81358.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:01:37 -0400 Status: RO At 09:33 PM 7/9/2002 +0100, you wrote: > --- Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > A friend of mine has put in >a request for pictures of enlisted personnel, >> too . >> >> -- Mara > >personnel? *grins* red- or blackhaired? > >Nicole Um... yes? -- Mara Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 21:52:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08448 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:52:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B1Z2E23204; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B1Z1A24866; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6B1Y9A24632 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24821 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2002 01:34:10 -0000 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (209.15.2.27) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2002 01:34:10 -0000 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.47.20]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:34:05 -0500 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C22859.822776E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume College Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:33:59 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C22859.822776E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message: 14 Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 23:41:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume College Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com We're going to Costume College as well. We're teaching a class on Trims on Saturday at 1 pm, and a limited attendance workshop on creating headpieces and headdresses (mostly Fantasy oriented, but...) late Sunday afternoon. I at least will try to remember to put a red H on my badge. If you're going to the gala Saturday night, I will be in bright orange and yellow, and Pierre will be in black and silver gray. Sandy - I will be attending this class, and look forward to seeing you there! I will also be at the gala, in a green "mock Fortuny" and whatever else I find to go with it. - I am saving these emails and will work up a list of nametags to look for! - Allison ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C22859.822776E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Costume College

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 23:41:48 -0500
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger = <costumrs@radiks.net>
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume College
Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com

We're going to Costume College as well.  We're = teaching a class on Trims on
Saturday at 1 pm, and a limited attendance workshop = on creating headpieces
and headdresses (mostly Fantasy oriented, but...) = late Sunday afternoon.  I
at least will try to remember to put a red H on my = badge.  If you're going
to the gala Saturday night, I will be in bright = orange and yellow, and
Pierre will be in black and silver gray.

Sandy


        =         - I will be = attending this class, and look forward to seeing you there! I will also = be at the gala, in a green "mock Fortuny" and whatever else I = find to go with it.

        =         - I am saving = these emails and will work up a list of nametags to look for!

        =         - = Allison

------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C22859.822776E0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 22:24:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09082 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:24:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B282E24588; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B281A03340; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11501.mail.yahoo.com (web11501.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.46]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6B27pA03284 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020711020750.48402.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [32.100.161.174] by web11501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:07:50 PDT From: Megan Irvine Subject: Re: [h-cost] EBay? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > Hi, > Those of you who regularly sell on EBay, could you give me your IDs > so I can > take a look once in a while? > Also, if you have AMAZING merchants you would love other people to > buy from, > I'd take a look... > Thanks! > Audrey I have an eBay "storefront" at http://www.stores.ebay.com/darkthreadsdesigns, and I use the id darkthreads. I was hoping to use it to sell a wider range of costume items, but only the belly dance gear and sewing patterns have really taken off. ===== Megan Irvine http://www.darkthreads.com Personal log: http://darkthreads.blogspot.com "No ship will ever take you away from yourself."--Constantine Cavafy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 23:04:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10419 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:04:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B2m2E26378; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B2m0A14065; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B2lJA13882 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2244.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.244]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11363 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:46:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3D2CF048.5AEDE7AD@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of weeds.... References: <3D29956D.3D4F04A7@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:41:13 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. Sue, I have tansy all over the place, as well as false indigo. We haven't used it as dye yet (but we will try it), but it a great strewing herb to keep away flies (the tansy, that is). We cut it in season (which, coincidentally, falls within fly season) and hang up bundles in the shop. It is easy to see why our ancestors found so many coincidences in nature (the abovementioned, as well as dockweed growing in close proximity to nettle, etc), and attributed them to an overall system that, although eventually found to be false, nevertheless evidences a strong correlation between ourselves and nature. Speaking of natural dyes, I constantly amaze folks with the display pieces we have at our historic site which, although over 10 years old, still maintain their vivid colors. Aside from stylistic preferences and financial considerations, I have found that, prior to modern chemical dyeing, there was a great deal of color that could be gotten from natural dyes. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 23:09:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10531 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:09:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B2r1E26570; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B2r1A15485; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f273.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B2qIA15257 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:52:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:52:13 -0700 Received: from 64.123.15.26 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:52:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.123.15.26] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2002 02:52:13.0103 (UTC) FILETIME=[F54D23F0:01C22885] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:52:12 +0000 Status: RO I haven't really gotten cheaper - I've always enjoyed the bargain find. But the amount of fabric I buy has gone up. By that I mean the yardage has gone up. Where I used to only buy at most three yards, I now only have a few pieces that small. As for better choices - I've cetainly gone more natural. I use linen a LOT more often now. Both for "costume" and for modern clothes. But then I DO live in Texas and can't handle heat... Mary/Katerine >Greetings All! > >I was just wondering how have your spending habits changed over time while >you have been costuming? Have your spending habits gone up or down? Also, >your fabric choices; better, worse? > >For me, although my fabric choices have gotten "better" (for the most part) >I have gotten cheaper. For example: I will find a beautiful fine linen, >but am no longer willing to spend $15.00 a yard on it. (And I started >shopping in the LA Garment District.) > >Thanks in advance for indulging my curiosity. I am looking forward to the >responses. >Kit >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 23:17:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10692 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:17:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B311E27004; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B311A17511; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B30wA17485 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip185.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.185]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6B30ro27445 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:00:54 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of weeds.... Message-ID: <3D2C9456.19.158B6CB8@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3D2CF048.5AEDE7AD@dandy.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:08:54 -0700 Status: RO > Hi, All. Sue, I have tansy all over the place, as well as false > indigo. One of the problems in the US is that there are two kinds of tansy. There is tansy ragwort which is a noxious weed (because it kills cattle) and there is true tansy, which works well for dyeing. It's too bad that so many different plants have names which are similar or the same. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 23:32:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11045 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:32:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B3G1E27896; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B3G1A21695; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B3FDA21406 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2244.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.244]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13621 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:14:14 -0400 Message-ID: <3D2CF6B4.826FCDCA@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? References: <200207091352.g69DqFF07658@bart.nildram.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:08:36 -0400 Status: RO Hi. You might want to consider Augsburg, about 45 min. west of Munich. It has the oldest intact stained glass windows in Europe in the cathedral, a Roman museum, the Fuggerei (homes built for the poor in the 16th cent.), a nice art museum with many famous paintings, and a lot of history in and around the area. Also Rothenburg, a little north, is an intact Medieval/ Renaissance walled town and Coburg has a nice armor collection and an art museum, too, I think. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 10 23:53:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11508 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:53:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B3c1E28945; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B3c0A27944; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B3bUA27766 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:37:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downward ([206.170.3.209]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0GZ200149FEC5R@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:37:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <025401c2288c$46e15460$d103aace@downward> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200207080047.g680l4v36186@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:37:25 -0700 Status: RO Me too. LynnD (Oakland, CA) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College? > I'll be there as well! > > .heather. > > > > Costume College (http://www.costumecollege.org/) happens every year in Van > > Nuys, Calif. (near LA). It's a weekend of costume classes (both lecture and > > hands-on workshops) which is quite fabulous! > > > > Allison, I'll be there Sat. & Sun. and would be happy to meet up! Maybe we > > can have an h-costume lunch? > > > > - Kendra > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 00:44:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12564 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 00:44:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B4S2E01531; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B4S1A11579; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe44.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.16]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B4RPA11418 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:27:20 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <200207102337.g6ANbnT62949@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Intro and Revolution In Fashion book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2002 04:27:20.0482 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F2A1020:01C22893] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 00:28:08 -0400 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" > ok -- I haven't heard back from them yet, but at least I know it was the right > address. If you do hear from them, let me know, they haven't answered yet either. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 01:06:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13047 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 01:06:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B4p1E02482; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B4p0A17170; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B4oXA17085 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:50:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a21.in-tch.com [66.62.107.1]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6B4aTP16315 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:36:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D2D0FD8.DCDE083B@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend References: <20020710075349.62468.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> <+i$hDJDQwHL9Iw4B@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:55:52 -0600 Status: RO Is that *with* an iron afterbath, or *without?* --sue, completely enamored of tansy-dyed wool..... Jean Waddie wrote: > > N Kipar wrote > > --- Jean Waddie wrote: > I have to say, the > >gentlemen in their coats and wigs were definitely the > >> spiffiest thing at the event - Huzzah! > >> > >> Jean > > > >Thanks Jean! *grins* wait till I have finished ben's coat for good and he has > >silver lace around the shoulders (two rows) and down the sides (two rows) and > >along the outside of the breeches (yet another two row) he's gonna be > >glow-in-the-dark-officer. > >hehehehe > > > >Nicole > > > We'll have to match him with someone in a tansy-dyed surcoat and see who > glows best! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 04:46:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27372 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 04:46:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B8U4E10799; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B8U1A07536; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B8TLA07357 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g6B8THt28806; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:29:17 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from apache) Message-Id: <200207110829.g6B8THt28806@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:29:17 BST Status: RO Leigh Tartaglio wrote : > Hi. You might want to consider Augsburg, about 45 min. west of Munich. It has > the oldest intact stained glass windows in Europe in the cathedral, a Roman > museum, the Fuggerei (homes built for the poor in the 16th cent.), a nice art > museum > with many famous paintings, and a lot of history in and around the area. Sounds good! http://www.hhog.de/augsburg/history.htm and looks good! Thanks, we'll try that. > Also Rothenburg, a little north, is an intact > Medieval/ Renaissance walled town Yes, we stayed there a few years ago. Lovely! > Coburg has a nice armor collection and an art museum, Right, that's on the list, too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 05:17:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28130 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B921E11744; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B920A14306; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B91mA14243 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:01:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-181.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.181]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5AFC8324 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:01:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3D2D4978.4050005@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] What to embroider on a 16yh century forepart? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:01:44 +0200 Status: RO Hi, I have a gold silk/satin forepart and I am looking for an embroidery pattern. The dress is from aboud 1562 and is Italian. In Janet Arnolds Patterns of fasihon 1560-1620, on page 49, picture 347 and 348 is a nice example of a forepart. But it is 1580-95 and probably made in England. I have just one year to embroider it, but I am going to embroider te part that you can see if the dress is worn over it. Are there any books for sale with exampels of embroidered foreparts and the different stiches that were used? Would this book be intresting? Exploring Elizabethan embroidery by Dorothy Clarke Or this book? Embroidery in Britain From 1200 to 1750: The Victoria & Albert Museum's Textile Collection by Donald King, Santina Levey Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 05:29:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28368 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:29:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B9DgE12065; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B9DfA21637; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10303.mail.yahoo.com (web10303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.81]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6B9AeA16135 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:10:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020711091040.44731.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.120.56.37] by web10303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:10:40 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207102349.g6ANn9A21949@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-247641155-1026378640=:43466" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume trivia Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:10:40 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-247641155-1026378640=:43466 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Plus, even if it was the law somewhere, sumptuary legislation has existed for centuries, but was rarely, if ever adhered to, because of the difficulty in enforcing. But as another piece of trivia, in the 15th (I think!) century a law was passed in England stating that all prostitutes had to wear their clothes inside out to mark out their profession (although agian, unlikely to have been enforced). Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-247641155-1026378640=:43466 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Plus, even if it was the law somewhere, sumptuary legislation has existed for centuries, but was rarely, if ever adhered to, because of the difficulty in enforcing.

But as another piece of trivia, in the 15th (I think!) century a law was passed in England stating that all prostitutes had to wear their clothes inside out to mark out their profession (although agian, unlikely to have been enforced).

Debbie.


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-247641155-1026378640=:43466-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 05:35:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28513 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:35:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B9JnE12251; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:19:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B9JnA16217; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:19:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10305.mail.yahoo.com (web10305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.83]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6B9GsA07328 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020711091653.21605.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.120.56.37] by web10305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:16:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207102349.g6ANn9A21949@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1041570416-1026379013=:21600" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:16:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1041570416-1026379013=:21600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just want to say thanks to Nicole for the pictures. Being stuck on the traders field at the opposite end of the site I didn't get to do much costume ogling! (Although I had a fantastic view of the WWII fashion show by The Spitfires, which was excellent.) And Jean, had to laugh at the mental image of our lot wearing tansy surcotes. We should definitely get them to do it (talk about glowing!) Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1041570416-1026379013=:21600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Just want to say thanks to Nicole for the pictures.  Being stuck on the traders field at the opposite end of the site I didn't get to do much costume ogling!  (Although I had a fantastic view of the WWII fashion show by The Spitfires, which was excellent.)

And Jean, had to laugh at the mental image of our lot wearing tansy surcotes.  We should definitely get them to do it (talk about glowing!)

Debbie.

 


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1041570416-1026379013=:21600-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 06:01:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29034 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:01:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6B9i1E12886; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B9i0A21127; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6B9hDA20966 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:43:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KJYS1RXW3400WIWE@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:43:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KJYS1LGHXG00TJU0@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:42:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:39:26 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:39:08 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.107) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:39:07 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing new address/funny story ot In-reply-to: <200207102349.g6ANn9A21949@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <14A558D0B03@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:39:07 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I think I was momentarily possessed by the spirit of one of Teddy's > misadventures. May the Costume Gods (if any such exist!) protect all costumers from *that* Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 07:41:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA31459 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:41:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BBQ2E15945; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BBQ1A11806; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6BBPtA11780 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020711112555.73843.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:25:55 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <7E7F24B0.772028DA.0F933E1F@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:25:55 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > Greetings All! > > I was just wondering how have your spending habits changed over time while > you have been costuming? Have your spending habits gone up or down? Also, > your fabric choices; better, worse? My spending habits went up according to my financial situation. When beinga student while working part time a little at Uni I wouldn't have dreamt of spending what I spend now. At the same time the quality and fabric choice has gone up accordingly. I would NEVER use slubby dupion silk anymore, because it is plain wrong for the period I am doing. I always use taffeta now, but I do shop around trying to find the cheapest retailer. I hate shopping though and do most of my purchases via the internet. Same with woolens, we buy almost all of our wool from hainsworth now, 100% pure wool, superfines and meltons, quite simply because with the job came the problem of not having any time. If I go and madly sew every waking and non-working hour for ben, then I am not using a cheap and tacky cloth. I do though tend to overspend, but I anticipate this for any given project and will spend next year paying off my credit card. All in all I know EXACTLY what I want and what I do not use, and thus are able to shop for the cheapest price of what I want. Now and then though... same with the metal brocade for my mantua, I go 'oh sod it, gonna be broke!' and indulge myself, knowing I'll have to pay off the minus. I am lucky though, full time job, no kids, no mortgage, no rent even, all I have to pay is a contribution to my food and living costs, the petrol and insurance and tax for my car (quite a lot, petrol is so expensive here), my private health insurance and my huge web site hosting. I am very very lucky, I know. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 07:42:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA31488 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:42:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BBR1E15996; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BBR0A11990; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from broadviewnet.net (unix4.broadviewnet.net [64.115.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6BBQSA11891 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:26:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14280 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2002 11:26:26 -0000 Received: from s22.dial1.pro.nac.net (HELO lola.broadviewnet.net) (209.123.234.72) by mail.broadviewnet.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2002 11:26:26 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020711072641.009f06b0@mail.broadviewnet.net> X-Sender: windsong@mail.broadviewnet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Victoria Wickens In-Reply-To: <200207100451.g6A4p1A12433@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_36884892==_.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] Re: different velvets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:29:06 -0400 Status: RO --=====================_36884892==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 10:51 PM 7/9/02 -0600, you wrote: >That looks like a lot of velvet for not very much >money: but I now realise that my total knowledge of >velvet is "I can't afford it" (and even that is now >wrong!) Velvet's become very affordable. >Could someone advise on what these two types are, >please? Also when they would have been used, and >for what? Acetate-Nylon is typically what you find being sold in Jo-Anne's for=20 $20+. Panne is crushed velvet... looks like it's been sat on and ironed=20 that way. It's a neat look, but not for most historical garb that I've=20 ever seen. >(Yes, I *am* a beginner, you're absolutely right!) *chuckle* We all had to start somewhere!! Vik =A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4= =F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA= =B0`=B0=BA=A4 Lady Victoria's Castle Closet: Custom Clothing and Fine Renaissance Designs http://www.castlecloset.cc Gallery: http://bluedragyn.net/~lvcc/castle-creations 15% discount to List Members, --=====================_36884892==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 10:51 PM 7/9/02 -0600, you wrote:
That looks like a lot of velvet fo= r not very much
money: but I now realise that my total knowledge of
velvet is "I can't afford it" (and even that is now
wrong!)

Velvet's become very affordable.

Could someone advise on what these two types are,
please? Also when they would have been used, and
for what?

Acetate-Nylon is typically what you find being sold in Jo-Anne's for $20+.  Panne is crushed velvet... looks like it's been sat on and ironed that way.  It's a neat look, but not for most historical garb that I've ever seen.

(Yes, I *am* a beginner, you're absolutely right!)

*chuckle*  We all had to start somewhere!!

Vik

=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4= =F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA= =B0`=B0=BA=A4
Lady Victoria's Castle Closet:
Custom Clothing and Fine Renaissance Designs
http://www.castlecloset.cc
Gallery: http://bluedragyn.net/~lvcc/castle-creations
15% discount to List Members,
--=====================_36884892==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 08:30:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00752 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:30:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BCF3E17687; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCF2A22650; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCBdA21877 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:11:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g6BCBYD31243; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:11:34 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from apache) Message-Id: <200207111211.g6BCBYD31243@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:11:34 BST Status: RO Victoria Wickens wrote : > Acetate-Nylon is typically what you find being sold in Jo-Anne's for > $20+. Errm.. what's a "Jo-Anne's"? Is being sold there a good thing or a bad thing? Although possibly the world "nylon" tells me all I need to know. Even as a beginner, I suspect that the amount of that used in medieval times was quite low. What *was* velvet made from? Cotton? And is the "real thing" even vaguely affordable now? >Panne is crushed velvet... looks like it's been sat on and > ironed that way.  It's a neat look, but not for most historical garb > that I've ever seen. Nice for cushions, I would imagine. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 08:57:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02355 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:57:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BCg1E18835; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCg1A29421; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6BCfMA29230 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020711124122.90272.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:41:22 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207111211.g6BCBYD31243@bart.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:41:22 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > > Errm.. what's a "Jo-Anne's"? Is being sold there a good thing or a bad thing? It's an American thing, dear. A chain of fabric stores, thus whenever you see mails with a subject like 'Jo Anne's (insert sale/shops/offers etc)' arrives, you can delete it straight away. :-) Same with Hancock's, or Wal mart. > Although possibly the world "nylon" tells me all I need to know. Even as a > beginner, I suspect that the amount of that used in medieval times was quite > low. Non-existent indeed. What *was* velvet made from? Cotton? And is the "real thing" even > vaguely affordable now? It was made from silk, 100% silk. Aparently one can still get tha SOMEwhere but the price is prohibitive. Modern 'silk velvet' is usually 80% rayon (the pile) and 20% silk (the backing) and can be dyed well and also used for burning patterns into it. Cotton velvet or velveteeen as many call it, is an aceptable an suitable alternative and looks way more period than the rayon velvet. Just be careful with some 'veveteen's' their nap is too short, looks like upholstery velvet. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 09:10:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03167 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:10:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BCs2E19359; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCs1A02860; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCrCA02667 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.25.2a502a53 (4329) for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:53:02 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <25.2a502a53.2a5ed9ae@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_25.2a502a53.2a5ed9ae_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:53:02 EDT Status: RO --part1_25.2a502a53.2a5ed9ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If all those places are on your list you might want to map your trip to follow the so called castle road. It starts in Mannheim, goes via Heidelberg all the way to Nuernberg. It is a regular highway that you can drive with castles all along it. Some are ruins, some are restaurants, one is a wild bird refuge, with falcons and eagles (I think they do a show daily), etc. etc. It is a little slower traveling than on the Autobahn (German Expressway) but it is definitely worth it. All depends on how much time you have. I did not mention it before cause you said Southern Germany/Austria area. Also part of this or actually a lot of it is considered Southern Germany, I thought it was too far from where you originally wanted to go. As far as I am concerned the castle road is a trip in itself. Because there is so many things to see that might not be necessarily in tourist guides. For example outside of Mannheim towards Heidelberg is a little city called Ladenburg. They found quite a few Roman remains there. Not as much as Trier, but still. At the University Library in the City of Heidelberg, at the foot of the Heidelberg castle, is the Codex Manesse. With a prior appointment you can get into the rare book section and see an ancient facsimile. The real one is locked in a vault and does not get taken out unless it is an extreme situation or a head of State wants to see it. If I remember correctly when I took some friends from the States there we were told they only take it out about once every 50 years. The facsimile is several hundred years or so worth seeing in itself. Plus they have several Hildegard von Bingen and other period texts. The Wild Bird refuge is real close to Heidelberg as well. As a matter of fact within a 20 mile radius I think there is something like 7 castles, some in ruins. If you are going to Coburg you might consider going via Schweinfurt. The Georg Schaefer library is there. It has the most extend period collection for period book printing and printed materials, (Gutenberg Bible, Schaedelsche Weltchronic (3 copies) several Modelbuch, etc,) . Within half an hour from Schweinfurt is Wuerzburg, with the gorgeous Bishop residence castle, fabulous churches, etc. As I said before I am from Germany. I grew up close to where the former East German and Tchec borders used to meet, close to Hof. That area has a lot of textile industry, Spinning, weaving and garment industry. My parents moved fro there to Schweinfurt. I went to college in Aschaffenburg, another city worth visiting (castle and summer residence) and later lived in Mannheim. I have only been back stateside about 4 years. As a matter of fact last month I was home for 12 days, because my father celebrated his 90th Birthday. Since I am a member of the SCA I wrote a travel report to my Kingdom while there. It is a three part report and some things may not be relevant. I will repost it to this list for a lot might be interesting to you as well. Elisabeth --part1_25.2a502a53.2a5ed9ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If all those places are on your list you might want to map your trip to follow the so called castle road. It starts in Mannheim, goes via Heidelberg all the way to Nuernberg.  It is a regular highway that you can drive with castles all along it.  Some are ruins, some are restaurants, one is a wild bird refuge, with falcons and eagles (I think they do a show daily), etc. etc.  It is a little slower traveling than on the Autobahn (German Expressway) but it is definitely worth it. All depends on how much time you have.
I did not mention it before cause you said Southern Germany/Austria area.  Also part of this or actually a lot of it is considered Southern Germany, I thought it was too far from where you originally wanted to go.  As far as I am concerned the castle road is a trip in itself.
Because there is so many things to see that might not be necessarily in tourist guides.  For example outside of Mannheim towards Heidelberg is a little city called Ladenburg.  They found quite a few Roman remains there.  Not as much as Trier, but still.
At the University Library in the City of Heidelberg, at the foot of the Heidelberg castle, is the Codex Manesse.  With a prior appointment you can get into the rare book section and see an ancient facsimile.  The real one is locked in a vault and does not get taken out unless it is an extreme situation or a head of State wants to see it.  If I remember correctly when I took some friends from the States there we were told they only take it out about once every 50 years.  The facsimile is several hundred years or so worth seeing in itself.  Plus they have several Hildegard von Bingen and other period texts.
The Wild Bird refuge is real close to Heidelberg as well.  As a matter of fact within a 20 mile radius I think there is something like 7 castles, some in ruins.

If you are going to Coburg you might consider going via Schweinfurt.  The Georg Schaefer library is there.  It has the most extend period collection for period book printing and printed materials, (Gutenberg Bible, Schaedelsche Weltchronic (3 copies) several Modelbuch, etc,) .  Within half an hour from Schweinfurt is Wuerzburg, with the gorgeous Bishop residence castle, fabulous churches, etc.
As I said before I am from Germany.  I grew up close to where the former East German and Tchec borders used to meet, close to Hof.  That area has a lot of textile industry, Spinning, weaving and garment industry.  My parents moved fro there to Schweinfurt. I went to college in Aschaffenburg, another city worth visiting (castle and summer residence) and later lived in Mannheim.  I have only been back stateside about 4 years.
As a matter of fact last month I was home for 12 days, because my father celebrated his 90th Birthday.  Since I am a member of the SCA I wrote a travel report  to my Kingdom while there.  It is a three part report and some things may not be relevant.  I will repost it to this list for a lot might be interesting to you as well.
Elisabeth
   
   --part1_25.2a502a53.2a5ed9ae_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 09:11:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03265 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:11:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BCt2E19424; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCt1A03096; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCsPA02967 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:54:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.104.1851cbcf (4329) for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:53:59 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <104.1851cbcf.2a5ed9e7@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_104.1851cbcf.2a5ed9e7_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Report from Germany I Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:53:59 EDT Status: RO --part1_104.1851cbcf.2a5ed9e7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_104.1851cbcf.2a5ed9e7_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Full-name: BOSTONHAHN Message-ID: <14c.109c1641.2a5e3271@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:59:29 EDT Subject: Fwd: Report from Germany I To: SNSpies@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part2_104.1851cbcf.2a5e3271_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 --part2_104.1851cbcf.2a5e3271_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part2_104.1851cbcf.2a5e3271_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Full-name: BOSTONHAHN Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:50:10 EDT Subject: Fwd: Report from Germany I To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part3_104.1851cbcf.2a449722_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 --part3_104.1851cbcf.2a449722_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part3_104.1851cbcf.2a449722_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Full-name: BOSTONHAHN Message-ID: <1a2.38c4459.2a38b221@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:18:09 EDT Subject: Report from Germany I To: sca-aethelmearc@andrew.cmu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 To Everyone on the list Greetings from Elisabeth Johanna von der Flossenburg Today is June 6, 2002. I am writing this knowing fully well that I cannot mail it out until bqack in the States. Also I brought my laptop with me due to the telephone systen here in Germany (wallplugs, lines, connections, etc.) I cannot access a line. O well. But I do not want to forget anything so I am writing it down as I go. I have some great stuff that others may be interested in as well so I thought I would better share. I arrived last Friday night very late (almost midnight) in London. What a city!!!!! We spent Saturday and Sunday visiting The British Museum and the Wallace Collection, as well as friends. I partook in the pre-feast my friends were cooking and it was absolutely excellent. (They wanted to try it out before serving it at the Lamas event). Once again I realized how much we are really missing in the Statres by not being able to just walk down the street, catch "the tube" (underground railroad) and then walking a little ways and there you are at the museum with all its treasures. Even more so I realized that when back in Germany. On Monday early (& am) I continued my journey home). Also I spent most of Monday at the Embassy in Frankfurt, (unfortunately going through security at London Heathrow my Alien Registration Card, which I kept in my passport, ended up missing during one of the many passport checks. At the embassy,where I was repremanded for being careless, I was given travel documents to be able to return to the States. What a hazzle, but I guess I deserve that for not being more careful.) we finally made it to Amberg, where my in-laws live. On the way to Amberg we stoppeed in Nuernberg at the Germanische Nationalmuseum, which unfortunately was closed But their library was open. They had to pry me out of there. I did get a copy of the article from waffen und Kostuemkunde about the historical find of male clothing dated 1490 -1520. With patternsd and all. Those of you who do German from this time frame please contact me I will share. The patterns are of hose incl. attached feet, a doublet, a shirt/nightshirt (similar to the Duerer paintings, Mistress Allison, Mistress Michaele one can see nthe pleating/smocking!!!!!!) and a pair of sewn stockings. I will translate this article as soon as I have time. It is 32 pages. (Sir Reinhard and Mistress berengaria, this is the article I told you about), I spent Tuesday morning in Amberg, a great little medieval city with the old city walls and fortifications intact, got an illustrated book about the "Amberger Hochzeit 1474" (Amburg Wedding in 1474) with original texts and illustrations. I also found one on the history of "fire weapons", guns, by the Kuchenreuther family and the steal production industry in the region Oberpfalz starting in the 15th century. Tuesday afternoon came the highlight of my trip so far. I went by train (45minutes) to Nuernberg andf visited the museum shop of the Germanische Nationalmuseum. Yes, I would have loved to go into the museum, but rather than not having the time to really look at things I explored the shop. It is almost like a museum in itself. Lots of rare books. I spent too much money but I will share the list with you for certain books may be of interest to many of you. I initially went there for the book : Textiler Hausrat, Kleidung und Haustextilien in Nuernberg 1500 - 1650. This book has been out of print and she has about 6 copies left, which I reserved because various other lists I am on want it as well. This book covers home textiles, clothing, hats, (male, female, children's) as well qas household inventories, the sale and resale of such, etc. Definetly recommended for the serious costumer. Right down the line of costuming I found a book of Paintings: Spaetgotische Tafelmalerei in Sachsen (Board (???) paintings of the Late Gothik in Saxony) Again lots of paintings of the Cranach style clothing, lots of back views as well. Great book for costumers. A gem no longer available and I still cannot believe I found it is the book set: Das Hausbuch der Mendelschen Zwoelfbruederstiftung. This book is the Chronic of a special charitable order started by the Mendel family in Nuernberg in 1388, by giving old and ill males a home to spent the rest of their live. The special thing about this book set is it has faxcimilles a depiction (drawing) of every craftsman who ever entered the order. Only one member of each craft was allowed to join at a time. Not only is this bookset a wealth of information as to which professions were in Nuernberg until what time, it also has the depictions of the craftsman showing clothing, tools, etc. It is fabulous. Next a book that was just published but I think a must for every person interested in period research: Weltchronik 1493 by Hartmann Schedel. Again a faxcimile. One of the art critics calls it the picture book of the middle ages/renaissance. It is illuminated and along with the stories of the bilble gives a run down of which city was founded when, who rukes where, etc. etc. It is absolutely great. It is bound in velvet and I could not believe the price. I monly paid 65.00 Euros (about $65). This book can still be bought at that price from the museum. I also picked up a book on West European Illuminations 8-16 Century housed at the Russion National Library, St. Petersburg. This book was a whole 25 Euros. Unbelievable! Furthermore I picked up the annual publication of the Germanische Nationalmuseum from 1991-1994, and 1996. All have grand articles in them on the vqarious collections housed in the museum or on traveling exhibits. Yesterday I came to Schweinfurt, where we celebrated my Dad's 90th Birthday. Tomorrow I have an appointment to see the Georg and Otto Scaefer Collections (Old German Paintings 1400-1600 and grapgics like edgings, engravings, etc). Among other things I will get to actually touch embroidery pattern books from 1563. I am very excited. So tomorrow will be a follow up report. Please contact me if you want to see any of my new treasures. or for info as to how to get copies of the books still available. Sorry I am running out of funds so i cannot get duplicates right now. Elisabeth --part3_104.1851cbcf.2a449722_boundary-- --part2_104.1851cbcf.2a5e3271_boundary-- --part1_104.1851cbcf.2a5ed9e7_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 09:11:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03273 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:11:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BCt5E19440; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCt4A03116; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCsXA02997 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:54:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.139.1101ca54 (4329) for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:54:25 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <139.1101ca54.2a5eda00@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_139.1101ca54.2a5eda00_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: [SCA-AE] Travel report II Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:54:24 EDT Status: RO --part1_139.1101ca54.2a5eda00_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_139.1101ca54.2a5eda00_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Full-name: BOSTONHAHN Message-ID: <9a.283cd7b2.2a5e008b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:26:35 EDT Subject: Fwd: [SCA-AE] Travel report II To: SNSpies@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part2_139.1101ca54.2a5e008b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 --part2_139.1101ca54.2a5e008b_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part2_139.1101ca54.2a5e008b_alt_boundary" --part2_139.1101ca54.2a5e008b_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am forwarding this to you for it has much more details than I can remember. Elisabeth --part2_139.1101ca54.2a5e008b_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am forwarding this to you for it has much more details than I can remember.
Elisabeth --part2_139.1101ca54.2a5e008b_alt_boundary-- --part2_139.1101ca54.2a5e008b_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Full-name: BOSTONHAHN Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:10:00 EDT Subject: Fwd: [SCA-AE] Travel report II To: masanger@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part3_139.1101ca54.2a406f08_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 --part3_139.1101ca54.2a406f08_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part3_139.1101ca54.2a406f08_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-xi05.mx.aol.com (rly-xi05.mail.aol.com [172.20.116.10]) by air-xi05.mail.aol.com (v86_r1.13) with ESMTP id MAILINXI53-0612102057; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:20:57 -0400 Received: from lists2.andrew.cmu.edu (lists2.andrew.cmu.edu [128.2.10.216]) by rly-xi05.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.13) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXI57-0612102025; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:20:25 -0400 Received: (from postman@localhost) by lists2.andrew.cmu.edu (8.12.0.Beta16/8.12.0.Beta16) id g5CEIL7j006965 for sca-aethelmearc-list; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.andrew.cmu.edu (MX1.andrew.cmu.edu [128.2.10.111]) by lists2.andrew.cmu.edu (8.12.0.Beta16/8.12.0.Beta16) with ESMTP id g5CEIHZA006958 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.andrew.cmu.edu (8.12.3.Beta2/8.12.3.Beta2) with ESMTP id g5CEIGGH013365; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:18:16 -0400 Received: by mx1.andrew.cmu.edu (Plusit 1.26); Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:18:16 -0000 Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by mx1.andrew.cmu.edu (8.12.3.Beta2/8.12.3.Beta2) with ESMTP id g5CEIFGJ013349 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:18:15 -0400 Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id c.4f.1ec620b0 (2519) for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:18:11 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <4f.1ec620b0.2a38b223@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:18:11 EDT Subject: [SCA-AE] Travel report II To: sca-aethelmearc@andrew.cmu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-sca-aethelmearc@lists.andrew.cmu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sca-aethelmearc@andrew.cmu.edu June 7, 2002 Today was an experiece I will not forget in a loooong time. I was able to look at and touch, to leave through and read books that were printed in period. I was able to go to the Otto Schaefer Library in Schweinfurt. I had called and had gotten an appointment for 2 pm. Today was the first time I regretted not having taken the digital camera with me. When I got there I had to sign in with ID Card (passport) and the whole nine yards. In the guest register all the books I was going to look at were recorded. The first one was: "Ein new kunstlich Modelbuch" published by Quentell in Cologne, Germany in 1536. The paper is almost comparable with some of the calligraphy paper I saw in the States. The pages have yellowed slightly. The book had a long explanation .as to what the designs can be used for: Embroidery, Weaving, Lace making. There were designs by Duerer Holbein and Cranach. Some very simple geometrics others very intricate for reticella lace. It was wonderful. Next I was given the Original of the Amman Trachtenbuch. The edition was called Gynaeceum. Published 1586 I do have a Dover reprint, but it in no way does the original any justice. The lines on the woodcuts are clear. The paint as fresh as the day it was printed. The text completely in Latin. It was really hard to believe the Art and clearness of the print. Totally amazing that books can actually survive this long. I had to think odf all the hands that had touched this book over the years and centuries. I can only hope that some of the modern art can survive as long and be in as good a shape. Then I saw a Modelbuch again this one was by Sibmacher and called "Neues Modelbuch in Kupffer" published 1604. It showed many heraldic motives for Cross Stitch. Yes for Cross Stitch. The charts looked exactly like modern counted cross stitch charts. Just no legends for assigning colors to the symbiols. Most of them wwere for 2 or 3 colors. After the cross stitch charts (heraldic beasts, arms, geometric designs) was an few pages for blackwork, then reticella and finally needlepainting. The decriptions on several "cross stitch charts " read: "Kreuzstich und franzoesischer Stich auch ins Gestrueck zu nehmen" "Cross stitch and French Stitch can also be used in knitting A complete section on designs for patterns for clocks on stockings. It was amazing. Today we do not do as intricate a design anymore. It really shows how much more skilled these needleworkers from period were. Through the technical age sooooo much knowledge and skill was lost. It is unfortunate. The next book I was shown was illustrated by Jost Amman (woodcuts) again. It was a book on clothing of the clergy: Ordenstrachten by Johann Adam Lonitzer, published in 1585 It briefly listed the clothing ordinances for each picture, each depicting a different order and rank. It was mainly the male orders, but also a few female ones. The final original I was able to see was: Fabian von Auerwald's Ringerbuch published 1537 This book explains each move allowed in wrestling with the accompanying picture. This book was interesting to me since each man in the illustration was dressed in the Landsknechrt style. The instructiuons for each move were clear and concise. The old German language spoken then (or better printed then) was hardly different from the current German. I was in a daze. They would have let me look at other books in the vaulted library, if I had asked. But by the time I had studied the ones I just wrote about I was overwhelmed. The reading room where I was is lined with books. Most of the first editions from 1900 - 1950. Only the "old" books were in the vault. Books dating priror to 1900. I was allowed to look in there. I had imagined a small room. WRONG! It was a large room with rows and rows of bookshelves lined with books. The books they had selected for me all dealt with fashion. I was offered to look at others. There are many many original Duerer engravings, drawings and edgings. There are original fencing books, etc. etc. etc. 2 copies of the original Weltchronic (the one I just bought a faxcimile copy off) and more and more. It was hard to believe. It is my understanding that Mr. Otto Schaefer has one of the most extensive collections of printed graphics especially from the 15th and 16th Century. Mr. Otto Schaefer passed away 2 years ago. About 10 years ago he opened his library to the public. For a small price of 3 Euros per adult one can tour whichever exhibit is being shown at the time. As to being able to do what i was able to do one only has to make an appointment. They do have a web page: www.bibliothek-otto-schaefer.de I think many of Aethelmearc's illuminators would have been just as excited as I was. Also there are few actual written documents, there are many illuminated printed documents and books. Of course I bought books there as well that were published by and for the Otto Schaefer Library. 3 book Set: Duerer as storyteller Duerer: the Art to "travel" in nature Duerer - Heaven and Earth Amor als Topograph - 500 years Amores by Conrad Celtis Der Buchschmuck der Sensenschmidt Bibel, Nuernberg about 1476 depicting all the illuminated Capital letters of the Sensenschmidt bible Kostbare Drucke und Einbaende aus 6 Jahrhunderten Precious prints and covers from 6 Centuries Einbandkunst aus sechs Jahrhunderten Artful Covers from 6 centuries Tomorrow, Saturday I hope to still find the time to visit the Georg Schaefer Museum which is home to the Art Collection (Paintings. Georg Schaefer collected mainly German Masters. I do have a printed Catalogue of one of the special exhibits which were almost entirely paintings from the Cranach School of painters. But since a lot of these paintings are loaned out to various museums all over the world I cannot hope to see that collection in its entirety. But that would be overwhelming anyhow. And I do have to spend some time with my father. Afterall he is the reason I came to visit. I am getting scared however off getting all these books home. The suitcases (I brought an empty one to start out with) are getting awfully heavy. Books way a ton. But I will not leave my new treasures behind. I know I had not mentioned it before but I did get a copy of the Schuette Embroidery Book, which has been out of print forever and I have been trying for the last 10 years to find. It covers all the embroidery in period from the Bayeuz Tapestry on. It is the Embroiderer's bible. Well I better go, it is getting late and I need to get some sleep. Anyone wanting to see any of the new books please get in touch with me directly. Elisabeth - To change your list status, send a single line message to sca-aethelmearc-request@andrew.cmu.edu Example: UNSUBSCRIBE sca-aethelmearc BOSTONHAHN@aol.com --part3_139.1101ca54.2a406f08_boundary-- --part2_139.1101ca54.2a5e008b_boundary-- --part1_139.1101ca54.2a5eda00_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 09:11:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03326 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:11:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BCu1E19488; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCu1A03354; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BCtWA03225 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.137.10e41852 (4329) for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:55:21 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <137.10e41852.2a5eda39@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_137.10e41852.2a5eda39_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Travel Report III Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:55:21 EDT Status: RO --part1_137.10e41852.2a5eda39_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_137.10e41852.2a5eda39_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Full-name: BOSTONHAHN Message-ID: <42.29044663.2a44974a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:50:50 EDT Subject: Fwd: Travel Report III To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part2_137.10e41852.2a44974a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 --part2_137.10e41852.2a44974a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part2_137.10e41852.2a44974a_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Full-name: BOSTONHAHN Message-ID: <45.18abcd1d.2a38b223@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:18:11 EDT Subject: Travel Report III To: sca-aethelmearc@andrew.cmu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 June 8, 2002 Made it to the Georg Schaefer Museum. It was a disappointment. They are holding a Spitzweg Exhibit. Way past our period. All the old masters are in the vault, no way to see them. O well. I cannot win them all. The remainder of the trip will be somewhat boring. Visits with family. I am looking forward to returning home. Sure would have liked to spent more time in Nuernberg, but that could not be helped. I did get to see most of what I wanted to see, and lots more than I expected. This pretty mmuch concludes all interesting things from this trip. I will write more once back in the States. As I said before, anyone interested in the books I bought please contact me personally. Your Excellency Baroness Liadain I got your playing cards, and I did get the requested items for Master Charles of Alden as well. Please contact me so we can get together. Thanks Elisabeth --part2_137.10e41852.2a44974a_boundary-- --part1_137.10e41852.2a5eda39_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 09:17:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03714 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:17:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BD12E19730; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BD11A04788; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BD0aA04668 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m251.in-tch.com [216.166.191.251]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6BCkrP25232 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:46:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D2D82C5.314EDF5B@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of weeds.... References: <3D2C9456.19.158B6CB8@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:06:13 -0600 Status: RO I'd have to ask our local weed expert (former baron of our SCA group, who just happens to be the Main Weed Guy for one of the counties our barony comprises) which type of tansy this is...it grows fairly tall, has feathery-looking leaves, and a kind of umbrella-shaped, composite flower head (reminds me of same sort of shape as, say, queen anne's lace, or dill), with bright yellow, round flowers no bigger than my thumb nail. I'm pretty sure it's the same stuff that occasionally shows up in medieval recipes. The plants my friends used had not yet flowered--they're gonna try just using the flower heads later this summer when it blooms. We actually have a lot of problems with invasive and noxious weeds in Montana--sometimes they're trouble just because there aren't enough natural predators/consumers of the plant, and it spreads so rapidly that it crowds out native vegetation, and you end up with half a hillside that's only got one plant species on it. Some of these are quite useful (knapweed for honey, st. john's wort for possible medicinal uses, dyer's woad for dyeing), but still an overall pest. Dyer's woad, for instance, is so bad that you can't even legally grow woad in your garden (well, apparently you can grow something called "japanese indigo," but that's it). If you want to dye with indigo or woad here, you pretty much have to import or buy the actual dyestuff. I'm looking forward to this weekend--we have a local (SCA) event, at which several people are going to be doing a dye-in. I've got skeins of prepared threads and yarns (different types of silk and wool) to add to the dye baths--think they're doing indigo, logwood (beautiful shades of purple), madderroot, brazilwood, maybe some osage orange, and probably more knapweed and tansy. I'd very much like to dye some fabric for an outfit someday, but don't have the appropriate base fabric at the moment, so these threads are intended primarily for embroidery and test-bits of knitting. Should be loads of fun! --Sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > Hi, All. Sue, I have tansy all over the place, as well as false > > indigo. > > One of the problems in the US is that there are two kinds of tansy. > There is tansy ragwort which is a noxious weed (because it kills > cattle) and there is true tansy, which works well for dyeing. It's too > bad that so many different plants have names which are similar or > the same. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 09:45:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05780 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:45:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BDS2E21193; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BDS1A12453; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe40.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.32.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BDRuA12426 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:27:50 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [67.250.177.78] From: "Gia Gavino" To: "Costume List" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.1700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C228A4.0FD21910" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2002 13:27:50.0774 (UTC) FILETIME=[C11FE960:01C228DE] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:27:42 -0700 Status: RO ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C228A4.0FD21910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! I've been frantically moving since June, and have missed/deleted = most threads because of time constraints. However, is this thread about = the Costume College happening in Grand Rapids, MI? =20 Sorry to ask in mid thread... Thanks! Gia/Giacinta ----- Original Message ----- From: Allison Thurman Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 6:39 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume College Message: 14 =20 Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 23:41:48 -0500 =20 To: h-costume@indra.com =20 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger =20 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume College =20 Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com =20 We're going to Costume College as well. We're teaching a class on Trims = on =20 Saturday at 1 pm, and a limited attendance workshop on creating headpiece= s =20 and headdresses (mostly Fantasy oriented, but...) late Sunday afternoon. = I =20 at least will try to remember to put a red H on my badge. If you're goin= g =20 to the gala Saturday night, I will be in bright orange and yellow, and =20 Pierre will be in black and silver gray. =20 Sandy =20 - I will be attending this class, and look forward to see= ing you there! I will also be at the gala, in a green "mock Fortuny" and = whatever else I find to go with it. - I am saving these emails and will work up a list of nam= etags to look for! =20 - Allison =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C228A4.0FD21910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello!  I= 've been frantically moving since June, and have missed/deleted most thre= ads because of time constraints.  However, is this thread about the = Costume College happening in Grand Rapids, MI? 
 
Sorry to ask in mid thread...
Thanks!
Gia= /Giacinta
=
----- Original Message -----
From:= Allison Thurman
Sent: Wedne= sday, July 10, 2002 6:39 PM
To:<= /B> h-costume@indra.com
Subject:= [h-cost] Re: Costume College
 

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 23:41:48 -0500
= To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Pierre & Sand= y Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net>
Subject= : [h-cost] Re: Costume College
Reply-To: h-cost= ume@mail.indra.com

We're going to Costume C= ollege as well.  We're teaching a class on Trims on
Saturday at 1 pm, and a limited attendance workshop on creating= headpieces
and headdresses (mostly Fantasy ori= ented, but...) late Sunday afternoon.  I
a= t least will try to remember to put a red H on my badge.  If you're = going
to the gala Saturday night, I will be in = bright orange and yellow, and
Pierre will be in= black and silver gray.

Sandy

            =     - I will be attending this class, and l= ook forward to seeing you there! I will also be at the gala, in a green "= mock Fortuny" and whatever else I find to go with it.

 = ;             = ;  - I am saving these emails and will work up a list= of nametags to look for!

     &n= bsp;          - Al= lison

------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C228A4.0FD21910-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 09:48:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06065 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:48:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BDW1E21444; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BDW1A13741; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BDVDA13440 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m251.in-tch.com [216.166.191.251]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6BDHTP03360 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:17:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D2D89F4.BEFC5B6D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices References: <7E7F24B0.772028DA.0F933E1F@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:36:52 -0600 Status: RO Hi, Kit. Great question! My fabric-shopping habits have definitely changed, somewhat for the better, and oft times, more expensive. (short version) (Longer version) As I've learned more and more about historical costuming and clothing, I've stopped buying inexpensive cottons, etc., and gone with linens and wools (when I can find them). I do still consider okay (in my SCA-related context) to use good quality cotton velveteens and some corduroys as substitutes for some of the period, napped fabrics, as they are my best available substitutes (even if not what I'd *dream* of having ...I got to see some of the Real Thang last fall....*drool*). Luckily, I've never been fond of artificial fibers like polyester, etc., so that wasn't a fabric habit I had to break as I learned to become more authentic in my fiber choices. In general, I've become pickier (especially in the last couple of years--this list has had a strong influence on me and my levels of commitment to having more authentic clothing!), and less willing to go with the "it's good enough for a tourney event" stuff....This may partly explain why my costuming interests, at least for the immediate future, have shifted from the really late renaissance stuff, to earlier cultures (early Anglo-Saxon, which is completely Ben's fault, Nicole ), or Robin's Gothic Fitted Gowns. Someday I'll no doubt dabble in the Elizabethans again, but right now I'm having loads of fun working with earlier garments. I can feed my obsessive Authenticity Jones by concentrating on period seam finishes, sewing techniques, etc. I prefer to buy cheap, if I can, but that's very, very difficult where I live (Montana's about the size of Spain, but doesn't even have a million people in it). We have one "Jo Ann's" store in town that's largely nasty craft junk and cheap seasonal fabrics ($2/yd. acetate taffetas at Spring Prom time, etc.). And that's it. We have to go several hours, or find it on the internet, if we want anything better. When I started costuming about 15 years ago, we had 5? fabric stores in town, one of which just did wool (oh, drool.....*sigh*). I have been so far unable to find a good source for wools (geez, I miss the g-street fabrics website), but have bought lots of good linens on line, and have sources for silk, but am holding off on buying some until I get some outfits made (I'm a pretty bad hoarder). If I've got a specific need for fabric, though, and it's expensive, I don't let that stop me. Sometimes the only way to get it is to be willing to pay for it. My most expensive stuff (carefully folded in my grandmother's old trunk, so I can save it by throwing it through a window if there's ever a house fire) is this divine, scrumptious, black-and-gold upholstery brocade I paid $25/yd for. I will, someday, be using it to make a reproduction of the Phoenix portrait of Elizabeth I. I could talk about fabrics all day (and have!), but I gotta get off this ding-dong computer, and go to work. Thanks for letting me talk! --sue kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > > Greetings All! > > I was just wondering how have your spending habits changed over time while you have been costuming? Have your spending habits gone up or down? Also, your fabric choices; better, worse? > > For me, although my fabric choices have gotten "better" (for the most part) I have gotten cheaper. For example: I will find a beautiful fine linen, but am no longer willing to spend $15.00 a yard on it. (And I started shopping in the LA Garment District.) > > Thanks in advance for indulging my curiosity. I am looking forward to the responses. > Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 10:14:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08679 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:14:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BDx2E23411; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BDx0A23311; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BDwBA22822 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6BDxF068188 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:59:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207111359.g6BDxF068188@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices In-Reply-To: <20020711112555.73843.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> "from N Kipar at Jul 11, 2002 12:25:55 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO where do you find your silks online? I'd love to find some nice duschess satins.... .heather. > --- kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > Greetings All! > > > > I was just wondering how have your spending habits changed over time while > > you have been costuming? Have your spending habits gone up or down? Also, > > your fabric choices; better, worse? > > My spending habits went up according to my financial situation. When beinga > student while working part time a little at Uni I wouldn't have dreamt of > spending what I spend now. At the same time the quality and fabric choice has > gone up accordingly. I would NEVER use slubby dupion silk anymore, because it > is plain wrong for the period I am doing. I always use taffeta now, but I do > shop around trying to find the cheapest retailer. I hate shopping though and do > most of my purchases via the internet. > Same with woolens, we buy almost all of our wool from hainsworth now, 100% pure > wool, superfines and meltons, quite simply because with the job came the > problem of not having any time. If I go and madly sew every waking and > non-working hour for ben, then I am not using a cheap and tacky cloth. > I do though tend to overspend, but I anticipate this for any given project and > will spend next year paying off my credit card. > All in all I know EXACTLY what I want and what I do not use, and thus are able > to shop for the cheapest price of what I want. Now and then though... same with > the metal brocade for my mantua, I go 'oh sod it, gonna be broke!' and indulge > myself, knowing I'll have to pay off the minus. > I am lucky though, full time job, no kids, no mortgage, no rent even, all I > have to pay is a contribution to my food and living costs, the petrol and > insurance and tax for my car (quite a lot, petrol is so expensive here), my > private health insurance and my huge web site hosting. I am very very lucky, I > know. > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 10:18:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09010 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:18:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BE21E23659; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BE20A24318; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BE1lA24214 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:01:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6BE1jJU028234 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:01:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The 1796 nettlecloth dress In-Reply-To: <3D2BA010.1A7282B@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thank you, Fran. Does Fred have a web site? On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Lavolta Press wrote: > The photos were someone supplied appear to have been scanned in from a > modern copyrighted book, Ellen Anderson's _Moden 1790-1840_. This > book includes a scale pattern of the same dress with notes. It also > includes 18 other scale patterns for women's and men's garments, and > many photos including those for which no pattern is provided. It was > published in 1986 by the Nationalmuseet in Copenhagen. I think I > bought mine from Fred Struthers--his email is fsbks@mcn.org. > > Fran Grimble _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 10:20:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09101 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:20:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BE4TE23806; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BE4SA25369; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:04:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BE3xA25181 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6BE3vJU028605 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:03:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia In-Reply-To: <016e01c22864$f4976b80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: > >From one of our classes, Cowgirls and Shady Ladies: > Prostitutes in western boomtowns were required by law to wear yellow > dresses. This was to distinguish them from the average female citizens. Ok, is that true, or yet another costume myth? Sounds like someone saw something about (medieval Italian, I think? can't remember which city or century) prostitutes wearing yellow and extrapolated...? Would love to see documentation, because it just sounds fishy. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 10:24:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09536 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:24:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BE91E24103; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BE90A27095; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BE8aA26931 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:08:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14425 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:32:39 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices In-Reply-To: <3D2D89F4.BEFC5B6D@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:32:39 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Add me to the list of those who buy less and better. I have been slowly getting rid of the stash of "finds" I stocked up in my youth, when I had less discriminating tastes (and was still using cotton). Now I buy only linen, silk, and wool for costume use. Alas, I'm now working one day a week at a fabric store that specializes in linen, silk, and wool, at clearance prices, plus employee discount. So being more discriminating hasn't necessarily brought down the *quantity* of purchases. But I have so many riches to choose from, and a restricted budget! I have in the last couple of months watched with equanimity as a table of wonderful 100% linens, as low as $3/yard, has slowly disappeared. I restricted myself to just 10 yards of red, 6 of blue, about 8 of white. (Hmm, now it doesn't sound that restricted, does it? But there were dozens of bolts, any of which I'd have snapped up if I'd seen it at that price as a single find at Jo-Anns, in my pre-employee days.) --Robin, waiting hungrily for the fall wools to arrive _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 10:28:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09744 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:28:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BEC2E24317; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEC1A28233; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEBIA27881 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:11:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14465 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:35:23 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices In-Reply-To: <200207111359.g6BDxF068188@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:35:23 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: > where do you find your silks online? I'd love to find some nice > duschess satins.... Anatol's, which is local to me, carries duchess silk satins, and I believe they have an online presence -- try http://www.bridalfabric.com . But they're really expensive. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 10:30:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10036 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:30:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BEE1E24466; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEE1A29225; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BED3A28872 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6BED0JU029683 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:13:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-Reply-To: <20020711124122.90272.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > What *was* velvet made from? Cotton? And is the "real thing" even > > vaguely affordable now? > > It was made from silk, 100% silk. Aparently one can still get tha SOMEwhere but > the price is prohibitive. Modern 'silk velvet' is usually 80% rayon (the pile) > and 20% silk (the backing) and can be dyed well and also used for burning > patterns into it. I'm sure I've heard of wool velvet, for the 18th c. at least. Am told one can find wool velvet used for theatre seats and curtains. Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 10:38:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11128 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:38:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BEM2E25097; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEM0A02535; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BELKA02288 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6BEMg368421 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:22:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207111422.g6BEMg368421@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices In-Reply-To: "from Robin Netherton at Jul 11, 2002 09:35:23 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO doesn't look like they sell it, online, in silk. oh well. > > On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: > > > where do you find your silks online? I'd love to find some nice > > duschess satins.... > > Anatol's, which is local to me, carries duchess silk satins, and I believe > they have an online presence -- try http://www.bridalfabric.com . But > they're really expensive. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 10:59:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11684 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:59:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BEh5E26994; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEh2A12060; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEgOA11777 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip63.access-one.com [198.247.160.63]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6BEgM502665 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:42:22 -0400 Message-ID: <009001c228e9$26414d20$3fa0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:42:13 -0500 Status: RO Hi, that one is my fault it is true- not in every boom town though. I am currently searching for the book I found it in again, BUT the original source(for the book) was a newspaper article. I have misplaced both book and my brain has shut down on trying to remember the title. But the story goes thusly- You see the ladies of a particular western town were a bit upset because the prostitutes in town were blending a bit too well- they were afraid they(the upstanding proper ladies) would be mistaken for the "soiled doves"(or the doves would be mistaken for proper ladies!). So they pressured their husbands in to making a law that the ladies be required to wear yellow bows in their hair so everyone would know who they were (this was in the 1870's-1880's when yellow was not a particularly fashionable color- I mean true yellow not the golden yellow) Well the "doves" decided to retaliate and soon every girl in town was dressed in nothing BUT yellow! I use it as an example in my classes, because a common mistake the students make or have it the notion that only "bad women" wore the color red. In the 1880's red was a very fashionable color- in fact most magazines from that era will list about 3-7 shades of it in any one month! Marna Jean(MJ) BTW Hi, everyone! Penny invited me to come and defend her on this thread! I'm a clothing historian/seamstress who focus on the Victorian era but especially the Old West and the bustle periods.Glad to be here. Doug and Marna Jean Davis Shooting Star Enterprises Living History & Custom Historical Clothing http://www.shootingstarhistory.com/home.html oakley@access-one.com Alternate email- oakley@shootingstarhistory.com Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com - Victorian and Old West Era Online Classes in History and Period Sewing -----Original Message----- From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume Date: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia >On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: >> >From one of our classes, Cowgirls and Shady Ladies: >> Prostitutes in western boomtowns were required by law to wear yellow >> dresses. This was to distinguish them from the average female citizens. > >Ok, is that true, or yet another costume myth? Sounds like someone saw >something about (medieval Italian, I think? can't remember which city or >century) prostitutes wearing yellow and extrapolated...? Would love to >see documentation, because it just sounds fishy. > >-- Mara > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 11:02:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11710 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:02:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BEl1E27378; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEl1A13867; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6BEksA13810 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:46:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Thu Jul 11 09:27:36 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:27:36 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6BEksA13810 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Prices Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:27:25 -0500 Status: RO I also seem to buy less on impulse, but what I buy is better quality. No more, "oh, that's pretty, what can I do with it, oh heck I'll get it anyway" but "100 % linen/silk/wool, at that price!?!, I can do X!" . Probably the biggest change is now knowing *where* to shop, and that includes online resources. I am still a bargain hunter but I think those are thrifty habits I inherited from my depression era grandmother. I am lucky enough to have a large space for stash (and a large cutting table, built to my height!) but even it has a few empty shelves these days. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 11:06:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11728 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:06:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BEoDE27684; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEoCA15429; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEnnA15157 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:49:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip63.access-one.com [198.247.160.63]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6BEnl503514 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:49:47 -0400 Message-ID: <009e01c228ea$2f881160$3fa0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:49:25 -0500 Status: RO try thaisilks.com- limited colors in the duchess satin 11 colors and $23- 30 yd - but good service and reasonable prices on most of their stuff- some of the brocades and velvet are rayon/silk blends but have good hand (though the velvet is very soft!) I adore their silk/cotton batiste. Periodically I get a backorder but not often. MJ >doesn't look like they sell it, online, in silk. oh well. > > >> >> On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: >> >> > where do you find your silks online? I'd love to find some nice >> > duschess satins.... >> >> Anatol's, which is local to me, carries duchess silk satins, and I believe >> they have an online presence -- try http://www.bridalfabric.com . But >> they're really expensive. >> >> --Robin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 11:06:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11732 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:06:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BEo4E27651; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEo1A15329; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BEnlA15138 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip63.access-one.com [198.247.160.63]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6BEnh503507 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:49:46 -0400 Message-ID: <009d01c228ea$2e8c4c40$3fa0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:46:02 -0500 Status: RO mohair- not wool- slight difference one's from a sheep the other from a goat- though I suppose one of the longwool breeds like the leicester or cotswold might make passable velvet- I think it is still available or was a few years back- I had a friend who was a large presence in the Angora goat industry and she special ordered mohair velvet for her 19th century couch and chair to be recovered in. MJ > >I'm sure I've heard of wool velvet, for the 18th c. at least. Am told one >can find wool velvet used for theatre seats and curtains. > >Cheers, >Mara > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 11:26:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11823 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:26:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BF94E29406; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BF92A24579; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BF8EA24188 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g6BF8Aq33380; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:08:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from apache) Message-Id: <200207111508.g6BF8Aq33380@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:08:10 BST Status: RO N Kipar wrote : > --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk > wrote: > > > Errm.. what's a "Jo-Anne's"? Is being sold there a good thing or a bad > thing? > > It's an American thing, dear. A chain of fabric stores, And from the look of the context in other messages since, cheap&nasty fabric stores? Or did I misinterpret that? > What *was* velvet made from? Cotton? And is the "real thing" even > > vaguely affordable now? > > It was made from silk, 100% silk. Aparently one can still get tha SOMEwhere > but > the price is prohibitive. Modern 'silk velvet' is usually 80% rayon (the > pile) > and 20% silk (the backing) and can be dyed well and also used for burning > patterns into it. > > Cotton velvet or velveteeen as many call it, is an aceptable an suitable > alternative and looks way more period than the rayon velvet. Just be careful > with some 'veveteen's' their nap is too short, looks like upholstery velvet. Just what I wanted to know: thanks. So this amazingly cheap stuff would in fact look wrong to those who knew about these things, and I should probably avoid it. (Just been visiting the suggested Silk sites, and drooling over the keyboard. But as yet it would not be a good idea for me to take scissors to fabric of that sort of quality and price). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 11:30:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11861 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:30:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BFE2E29987; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFE1A27019; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFDXA26816 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:13:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip63.access-one.com [198.247.160.63]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6BFDW506525 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:13:32 -0400 Message-ID: <00bc01c228ed$80905ce0$3fa0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:13:19 -0500 Status: RO OH yeah, in the late 1870's cotton velvet was pretty popular- I have several Demorest's that discuss it as being a good "wearable" item- one that did not wear badly- eventually they started calling it velveteen about the mid 1880's but what I have read it was a bit "plusher" than most of the velveteen is now- more like the cotton/rayon velveteen. MJ (p.s. please forgive for me just jumping in here- like I said my specialty is mid-late 19th century and you are probably discussing an earlier period) : >> What *was* velvet made from? Cotton? And is the "real thing" even >> > vaguely affordable now? > >Cheers, >Mara > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 11:35:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11916 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:35:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BFJ3E00572; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFJ0A29665; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFIZA29453 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:18:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g6BFIVx33554; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:18:31 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from apache) Message-Id: <200207111518.g6BFIVx33554@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:18:31 BST Status: RO Marna Jean wrote : > (p.s. please forgive for me just jumping in here- like I said my specialty > is mid-late 19th century and you are probably discussing an earlier period) I'm just trying to increase my general knowledge (starting from zero). How far back does velvet go, anyway? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 11:36:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11923 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:36:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BFK3E00708; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFK1A00371; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6BFJtA00308 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020711151954.43917.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:19:54 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207111508.g6BF8Aq33380@bart.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:19:54 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > N Kipar wrote : > Just what I wanted to know: thanks. So this amazingly cheap stuff would in > fact look wrong to those who knew about these things, and I should probably > avoid it. Yes, I have to admit I would take only one look and know it is wrong/synthetic, f it is synthetic. Using the wrong materials destroys all the effort of a costume. Start with something simpler, use natural materials which you can buy at the re-enactors markets and multi-period events in the trader markets (the linen is UNBELIEVABLY fanastic and cheap 4-5 quid usually) and then you don't fear so much to do something wrong. Which period are you doing? Where are you in England? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 11:46:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11985 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:45:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BFU3E01693; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:30:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFU1405294; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bart.nildram.co.uk (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFTs405225 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:29:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by bart.nildram.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g6BFToD33750; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:29:50 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from apache) Message-Id: <200207111529.g6BFToD33750@bart.nildram.co.uk> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:29:50 BST Status: RO Jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote : > I'm just trying to increase my general knowledge (starting from zero). > > How far back does velvet go, anyway? A bit of Google hunting has found some answers to that one, but having just been advised about Ruritanian Purple Feathers, I'm taking them with a degree of caution. 12th and 13th Century Velvet: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/5459/bliaut3.html includes the comment "Fragments of twill and cotton velvet have been found dating back to 9th century France". I wonder what they used it for back then? T-tunics? http://www.costumes.org/pages/textiles/velvet.htm suggests it goes back to the Egyptians. And there I was thinking it was comparatively modern, being a complicated sort of thing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 11:54:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12049 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:54:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BFc1E02472; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFc1409952; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFbt409888 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15054 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:02:01 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-Reply-To: <200207111508.g6BF8Aq33380@bart.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:02:01 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > > > Errm.. what's a "Jo-Anne's"? Is being sold there a good thing or a bad > > thing? > > > > It's an American thing, dear. A chain of fabric stores, > > And from the look of the context in other messages since, cheap&nasty > fabric stores? Or did I misinterpret that? They cater mostly to quilters and crafters, with some home decorating, and modern dress fabrics. That means a lot of cotton prints and synthetics, mostly undesirable for historic use. But they (and the other large chain, Hancock's) are the only local fabric source in many American towns. Because the clearances run nationwide and the same fabrics can be found in many stores, people on the list like to alert others when they discover something suitable there for historical use, particularly when it's on sale. I always comb the local Jo-Ann's during the season clearances -- I have many times caught the stray bolt of 100% linen or wool that the crafters passed up. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 12:05:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12100 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:05:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BFn2E03714; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFn1416813; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFmY416547 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:48:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15139 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:12:40 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-Reply-To: <200207111529.g6BFToD33750@bart.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:12:40 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > 12th and 13th Century Velvet: > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/5459/bliaut3.html > includes the comment "Fragments of twill and cotton velvet have been > found dating back to 9th century France". I wonder what they used it > for back then? T-tunics? Someone on the list, a few years ago, posted some useful background on velvet use in medieval Europe. I don't recall the sources (I probably have them saved somewhere), but the take-home message that I committed to memory was that the primary use for velvets before the 14th century was in household furnishings -- e.g. bed hangings, cushions. If the velvets were cotton, that's consistent with the idea that cottons were typically used in household furnishing fabrics, but not in garments, in medieval Europe. Note that I'm saying *primary* and *typical* use here. Of course there are always exceptions. Given all that, I would be reluctant to use velvet for clothing before the 14th centur. I would be happy to see a good source for clothing use, but I think it's unlikely that we'll see any indication that clothing use of velvet was at all routine or common, even among the rich, before the 14th century or later. The real sticking point for me is finding a suitable velvet that can pass for a period velvet. Unless I had something very close, I think the entire garment would suffer, so I avoid it. Since velvet wasn't exactly an essential wardrobe fabric, I don't think I'm missing much without it. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 12:07:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12108 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:07:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BFp3E04051; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFp2418241; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6BFoZ417923 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:50:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 1742 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2002 15:50:34 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2002 15:50:34 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-101-238.sonic.net [209.148.101.238]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g6BFoXg20637 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:50:33 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D2DAA58.696193A7@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The 1796 nettlecloth dress References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:55:04 -0700 Status: RO Fred's URL is: http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks/HTML/fred.htm He specializes in imported and used costume books. However, his (large) inventory is not online. I am sure he will be happy to answer inquiries and/or mail a print catalog. I'm not sure how much Fred would want me to publicize this, but he will do special orders of costume books if there is enough interest. I often use him for special ordering from foreign vendors and publishers who I have failed to communicate with language-wise, or who won't accept any currency or form of payment I can give them, or I can't find out their address--that kind of thing. I'm not inexperienced in foreign orders myself, but Fred is a pro at it. Fran Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > Thank you, Fran. Does Fred have a web site? > > On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Lavolta Press wrote: > > > The photos were someone supplied appear to have been scanned in from a > > modern copyrighted book, Ellen Anderson's _Moden 1790-1840_. This > > book includes a scale pattern of the same dress with notes. It also > > includes 18 other scale patterns for women's and men's garments, and > > many photos including those for which no pattern is provided. It was > > published in 1986 by the Nationalmuseet in Copenhagen. I think I > > bought mine from Fred Struthers--his email is fsbks@mcn.org. > > > > Fran Grimble > > --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 12:11:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12126 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:11:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BFt2E04463; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFt1420466; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BFsq420380 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:54:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip240.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.240]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6BFsmh02788 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:54:49 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets Message-ID: <3D2D49A0.23698.184FAF94@localhost> Priority: normal References: <20020711124122.90272.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:02:24 -0700 Status: RO > I'm sure I've heard of wool velvet, for the 18th c. at least. Am told > one can find wool velvet used for theatre seats and curtains. For the 16th C as well (although the pieces that the V&A had from that time period looked more like upholstery weight then clothing weight.) The first velvets show up in the 12th century but initially they were only used by the church in vestments, altar cloths and the like. Use for non-church clothing came a bit later. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 12:54:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12285 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:54:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BGc7E08981; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BGc2415358; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BGbK414540 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:37:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A46C3802F6; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:38:04 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: different velvets Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200207111508.g6BF8Aq33380@bart.nildram.co.uk> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:38:04 -0500 Status: RO I seem to recall (TM) that there were some finds of Silk banding /applique on some norse garments- the expensive/imported fabric moved from garment to garment as the main fabric wore out.. as I use the early designs, those are easy to cut out- rectangles and squares.. So, fear not!! Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of jane@williams.nildram.co.uk Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:08 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets (Just been visiting the suggested Silk sites, and drooling over the keyboard. But as yet it would not be a good idea for me to take scissors to fabric of that sort of quality and price). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 15:07:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13049 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:07:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BIp4E21323; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:51:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BIp0400423; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf14bis.bellsouth.net (mail014.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BIoJ429852 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sgrochoski ([216.76.153.176]) by imf14bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20020711185143.DMKL21603.imf14bis.bellsouth.net@sgrochoski> for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:51:43 -0400 Message-ID: <00a901c2290b$67d38650$b0994cd8@sgrochoski> From: "Apollonia Margherita" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Hello, once again! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:47:26 -0400 Status: RO Hello all. I unsubb'd many moons ago, but as my sewing is getting better, I kind of miss this list.... Anyway, for those that care, I am in the SCA. Currently, I have gotten a wild hair, and am interested in two portrait, both by Parmigianino, the Roman Courtesan and the Turkish Slave..... Apollonia Apollonia Margherita ***************************************************************** Edmund: It's green. Percy: Yes, my lord! Edmund: Percy, the colour of gold, is gold. Whatever you have discovered if it has a name would be called green. Percy: [on discovering the secret of alchemy] Oh Edmund can it be true, that I hold in my mortal hands a nugget of purest GREEN? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 15:14:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13074 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:14:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BIw1E22051; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BIw1404194; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BIvZ404000 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:57:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6BIvXJU007451 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:57:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Yes, sometimes they surprise me by getting in real linen or wool -- I recently bought some 100% wool suiting on sale, and sometimes their cotton prints _are_ appropriate for something historical (I just found an actual repro print in the quilting cotton racks, and found some other fabric that looks like a plausible early 19th c. pattern). So you never know! I think that cotton velvet (if it's not too short-napped) is fine for 17th/18th c. costuming, in proper contexts; I've got some lovely red cotton velvet that I found on Hancock's sale table a few years ago that is just waiting for me to get around to cutting it into 17th c. sleeves ;D -- Mara On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Robin Netherton wrote: > They cater mostly to quilters and crafters, with some home decorating, and > modern dress fabrics. That means a lot of cotton prints and synthetics, > mostly undesirable for historic use. But they (and the other large chain, > Hancock's) are the only local fabric source in many American towns. > Because the clearances run nationwide and the same fabrics can be found in > many stores, people on the list like to alert others when they discover > something suitable there for historical use, particularly when it's on > sale. I always comb the local Jo-Ann's during the season clearances -- I > have many times caught the stray bolt of 100% linen or wool that the > crafters passed up. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 16:11:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14063 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:11:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BJt9E27827; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BJt0405954; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx1.famvid.com (a.mx.famvid.com [208.16.68.101] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6BJsM405652 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6959 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2002 19:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jeanne) (66.94.197.50) by mx1.famvid.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2002 19:52:59 -0000 Message-ID: <021e01c22914$c80af040$9865fea9@jeanne> From: "Jeanne Harney" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:54:34 -0400 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin & Mara Riley" To: Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets > Yes, sometimes they surprise me by getting in real linen or wool -- I > recently bought some 100% wool suiting on sale, and sometimes their cotton > prints _are_ appropriate for something historical (I just found an actual > repro print in the quilting cotton racks, and found some other fabric that > looks like a plausible early 19th c. pattern). So you never know! And right now their linens, linen-looks, and linen blends are 66% off. I found a bolt of 100% black heavyweight linen for $12 before discount, and some lovely linen/cotton blends for $7 before discount in my local store. Gotta read the bolt ends though... Jeanne A headon collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 17:06:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14676 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:06:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BKo4E03304; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BKo1407147; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BKnc406899 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:49:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([62.255.179.32]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020711204937.WGIM23840.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:49:37 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? Message-ID: <3D2DFD6D.31249.8D2E20@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <25.2a502a53.2a5ed9ae@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:49:33 +0100 Status: RO On 11 Jul 2002 at 8:53, BOSTONHAHN@aol.com wrote: > > If all those places are on your list you might want to map your trip to follow the so called castle > road. It starts in Mannheim, goes via Heidelberg all the way to Nuernberg. We may well do at least part of this. > I did not mention it before cause you said Southern Germany/Austria area. Also part of this or > actually a lot of it is considered Southern Germany, I thought it was too far from where you > originally wanted to go. It's places we can do on the way there and on the way back. The trip from Calais will be a gentle meander rather than an attempted teleport, I think. The information here, plus those forwarded reports, makes me think we might not even get to Austria :) Thanks! (About to find out how to switch this list to no-mail for a bit). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 17:13:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14707 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:13:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BKv2E04014; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BKv1411143; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f241.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BKu7410623 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:56:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:56:01 -0700 Received: from 12.232.52.91 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:55:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.232.52.91] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2002 20:56:01.0940 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D823540:01C2291D] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:55:51 -0700 Status: RO I would have to agree... I know in the Italian Renaissance there was something similar to this (especially in Venice) involvine yellow skirts and yellow veils... But I don't think it was ever something in the Wild West. :) -Laura -------------------------- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:24:58 -0700 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia To: h-costume@indra.com Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > >From one of our classes, Cowgirls and Shady Ladies: >Prostitutes in western boomtowns were required by law to wear yellow >dresses. This was to distinguish them from the average female citizens. Every single Western boomtown, in every state and territory, in Canada and the US, in every year? I find that amount of co-operation and co-ordination, in a time of no mass media other than a telegraph (when they even had that), unbelievable. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 17:39:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14897 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:39:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BLN2E06440; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLN1425261; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLMR424955 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ3005W1SPD1Y@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:22:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Pendleton wool cheap (was Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices In-reply-to: <3D2D89F4.BEFC5B6D@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020711140355.00d062b0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <7E7F24B0.772028DA.0F933E1F@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:22:22 -0700 Status: RO >I have been so far unable >to find a good source for wools Try the Pendleton Wool outlet in Washugal, WA. The 800 number is 1-800-568-2480. Call them to find out what they've got, how much it is, and how they can get it to you. Feel free to pass this number around - I got it off their flyer in their store. I've been there in person (it's across the river from Portland, Oregon), and the remnant section has bins of 1.5 to 3 yard pieces of wool fabric in several weights and colours. These will cost anywhere from $1.50/yd. to $5/yd. The selection of colours will be limited, so ask the person on the phone what they have, and how much of it there is, in how big pieces. They may have anything from winter-coat-weight to summer-suit-weight. They can arrange to ship your fabric to you. They did have a couple of plaids, last time I was there, but almost all was solid colours in plain weave, herringbone, or twill. I have black, dark blue, light blue, dark green, creamy-white, and mauve from two trips there (I live in California). I didn't see much bright yellow, bright red, or white-white. I didn't see any tweed. But I did see photos of re-enactors who used their wool. And I saw striped blankets similar to the Hudson Bay ones. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 17:41:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14912 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:41:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BLO1E06544; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLO0425918; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLNG425402 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:23:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip35.access-one.com [198.247.160.35]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6BLNE510010 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:23:15 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c22921$23bc5580$23a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:22:39 -0500 Status: RO If it makes sense to you for on time/period place why not another? (just curious and not meaning to be offensive or problematic...- maybe the ladies got the idea from reading an Italian history? Just because one lived "out west" in the 1880's did not mean they were uneducated or "wild" themselves) It wasn't the dresses that they were required to wear it was yellow hairbows- they wore the dresses out of retaliation. I swear upon my honor it was taken from a newspaper account in a book I read- but unfortunately it was before I developed my survival instinct of being able to quote exactly where I found stuff at, and was 2 moves and a divorce ago when I did that particular research. I will eventually "refind" it but my time is rather pressed at the moment. I've been fighting the "red dress" myth for years now. Unlike Hollywood I spend a large portion of my time researching the late Victorian era- and the old west women's clothing in particular. I don't think this one is myth- we were discussing how different areas had different ways to distinguish "parlour houses" and "soiled doves" and how Hollywood gets so much of the saloon/brothel bits wrong. One lady's grandmother said in their area brothels were required to have a slate framed in barnwood on the outside of the house. Then there was the "red light" requirement in some districts. Proper women in the west generally stayed away from poodle dogs because it was a favorite among the soiled doves who carried them when they wen on their "advertisement" strolls... Just a different way in each local to recognize those who were not accepted into the community as equals... MJ >I would have to agree... I know in the Italian Renaissance there was >something similar to this (especially in Venice) involvine yellow skirts and >yellow veils... But I don't think it was ever something in the Wild West. :) > >-Laura > >-------------------------- >Message: 12 >Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:24:58 -0700 >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia >To: h-costume@indra.com >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > >From one of our classes, Cowgirls and Shady Ladies: > >Prostitutes in western boomtowns were required by law to wear yellow > >dresses. This was to distinguish them from the average female citizens. > >Every single Western boomtown, in every state and territory, in Canada and >the US, in every year? I find that amount of co-operation and >co-ordination, in a time of no mass media other than a telegraph (when they >even had that), unbelievable. > > >Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 17:57:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14991 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:57:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BLf2E08080; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLf0405545; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLex405517 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17SlgF-000Npd-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:40:56 +0100 Message-ID: <9qGhRfC1mfL9Iw5D@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend References: <20020710075349.62468.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> <+i$hDJDQwHL9Iw4B@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> <3D2D0FD8.DCDE083B@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3D2D0FD8.DCDE083B@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:33:41 +0100 Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote >Is that *with* an iron afterbath, or *without?* >--sue, completely enamored of tansy-dyed wool..... I think the best glow comes from the plutonium afterbath :-) (sorry, I'm not the dyer, I have absolutely no idea!) Jean > >Jean Waddie wrote: >> >> N Kipar wrote >> > --- Jean Waddie wrote: > I have to say, the >> >gentlemen in their coats and wigs were definitely the >> >> spiffiest thing at the event - Huzzah! >> >> >> >> Jean >> > >> >Thanks Jean! *grins* wait till I have finished ben's coat for good >> >and he has >> >silver lace around the shoulders (two rows) and down the sides (two >> >rows) and >> >along the outside of the breeches (yet another two row) he's gonna be >> >glow-in-the-dark-officer. >> >hehehehe >> > >> >Nicole >> > >> We'll have to match him with someone in a tansy-dyed surcoat and see who >> glows best! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 17:58:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14996 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:58:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BLg7E08209; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLg7406163; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLex405522 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17SlgF-000Npf-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:40:57 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets References: <200207111529.g6BFToD33750@bart.nildram.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:40:16 +0100 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > >> 12th and 13th Century Velvet: >> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/5459/bliaut3.html >> includes the comment "Fragments of twill and cotton velvet have been >> found dating back to 9th century France". I wonder what they used it >> for back then? T-tunics? > >Someone on the list, a few years ago, posted some useful background on >velvet use in medieval Europe. I don't recall the sources (I probably have >them saved somewhere), but the take-home message that I committed to >memory was that the primary use for velvets before the 14th century was in >household furnishings -- e.g. bed hangings, cushions. If the velvets were >cotton, that's consistent with the idea that cottons were typically used >in household furnishing fabrics, but not in garments, in medieval Europe. >Note that I'm saying *primary* and *typical* use here. Of course there are >always exceptions. > >Given all that, I would be reluctant to use velvet for clothing before the >14th centur. I would be happy to see a good source for clothing use, but I >think it's unlikely that we'll see any indication that clothing use of >velvet was at all routine or common, even among the rich, before the 14th >century or later. > >The real sticking point for me is finding a suitable velvet that can pass >for a period velvet. Unless I had something very close, I think the entire >garment would suffer, so I avoid it. Since velvet wasn't exactly an >essential wardrobe fabric, I don't think I'm missing much without it. > >--Robin > Just off the top of my head, I can't picture anything that would hang right in velvet earlier than that 14th century date. The first thing I can imagine is maybe the very late, very structured sideless surcoats with fur edging. When you get on to things like houppelandes and V-neck gowns, then you can start to imagine velvet works with that much heavier look. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 17:58:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14999 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:58:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BLg3E08188; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLg3406120; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BLex405518 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17SlgF-000Npc-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:40:56 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets References: <200207111508.g6BF8Aq33380@bart.nildram.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:31:20 +0100 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > >> > > Errm.. what's a "Jo-Anne's"? Is being sold there a good thing or a bad >> > thing? >> > >> > It's an American thing, dear. A chain of fabric stores, >> >> And from the look of the context in other messages since, cheap&nasty >> fabric stores? Or did I misinterpret that? > >They cater mostly to quilters and crafters, with some home decorating, and >modern dress fabrics. That means a lot of cotton prints and synthetics, >mostly undesirable for historic use. But they (and the other large chain, >Hancock's) are the only local fabric source in many American towns. >Because the clearances run nationwide and the same fabrics can be found in >many stores, people on the list like to alert others when they discover >something suitable there for historical use, particularly when it's on >sale. I always comb the local Jo-Ann's during the season clearances -- I >have many times caught the stray bolt of 100% linen or wool that the >crafters passed up. > >--Robin > I'm surprised to hear most towns are so short of fabric shops - since I was completely stunned to find fabric in Wal-Mart in the middle of Connecticut last year. Fabric in a supermarket? (We needed to do quick curtains for the windows in the front and side doors of our rented apartments - a yard of fabric and a bit of masking tape was OK for a week or two). And in one mall in Quebec there were three shops selling cloth and knitting yarn. Fabric shops in the UK are generally specialist and found down obscure side-streets - never, ever in a mall! Was I just very fortunate in the places I went? Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 18:24:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15071 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:24:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BM83E10158; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BM81419208; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BM7r419130 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:07:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip49.access-one.com [198.247.160.49]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6BM7o520075 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:07:51 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c22927$5cacff60$31a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:07:33 -0500 Status: RO speaking of awl-mart fabrics ours has started carrying real 100% cotton sateen- (very useful for bustle era- don't know about earlier) in about 7 colors! Surprised me! MJ - since I >was completely stunned to find fabric in Wal-Mart in the middle of >Connecticut last year. >-- >Jean Waddie >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 18:24:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15075 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:24:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BM91E10278; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BM91419777; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BM8a419516 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:08:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17947 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:32:43 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:32:43 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Jean Waddie wrote: > I'm surprised to hear most towns are so short of fabric shops - since > I was completely stunned to find fabric in Wal-Mart in the middle of > Connecticut last year. Fabric in a supermarket? (We needed to do > quick curtains for the windows in the front and side doors of our > rented apartments - a yard of fabric and a bit of masking tape was OK > for a week or two). And in one mall in Quebec there were three shops > selling cloth and knitting yarn. Fabric shops in the UK are generally > specialist and found down obscure side-streets - never, ever in a > mall! Was I just very fortunate in the places I went? Yes and no. In general, the independent fabric store in the U.S. seems to be as scarce now as the independent bookstore. They were common enough 10 years ago, but more and more of them are folding, either because of competition from chains, declining sales (fewer people are sewing these days), or general ill climate for small businesses. If you've got one in your town, it's a thing to treasure. Wal-Mart is a different sort of case. It's not what we would call a supermarket (a term we use for large food stores that also sell soaps, drugs, sundries, and other household consumables). Wal-Mart falls into the category of "discount department store," and brings up the cheapest end of that classification. The chain built its success by bringing mass-market goods at low prices to small towns and other areas that did not have large shopping centers and a broad selection of stores. Wal-Mart located its large retail stores on low-priced property just outside town, offering a one-stop shop for a large range of useful things -- clothes, hardware, toys, household goods -- at prices made possible only by high-volume sales and chain-store scale. (This created a great deal of ill will among small downtowns, whose smaller, more specialized shops often died from the competition of the Wal-Mart down the road.) Anyway, in areas where the nearest fabric store might be an hour away, or there might be only a single tiny specialty shop, Wal-Mart became the chief source of fabric. The stores in less-populated areas thus often have a large fabric department, with a selection catering to the needs of the home crafter/sewer: basic low-priced fabrics for casual and family clothing, quilting supplies, curtain materials, thread and tools, basic craft items. In more urban areas where fabric is easier to come by, Wal-Mart is not the consumer's top choice for fabric shopping, so those stores often have a smaller fabric department or none at all. (In my metro area, I might pick up thread at Wal-Mart while I'm shopping there for something else, but I don't go there specifically for fabric, unless maybe I need cheap cotton.) As to mall stores, a few of the U.S. fabric store chains (So-Fro, Piece Goods) were often located in malls, but I see less and less of those these days. Most of the ones I know are in older malls and are well-established. The idea of three fabric stores in one mall does surprise me. Remember, too, there's a great difference between the mall culture of North America and that of the UK. We also have a large presence of "strip centers" -- collections of stores, often parallel to a road with a shared parking lot, that provide the advantage of clustered stores without the parking problems or expensive architecture of malls. Fabric stores often are located in these groupings. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 18:40:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15122 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:40:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BMO2E11564; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BMO1427769; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BMNv427730 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:23:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.5b.2a9993fc (3842) for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:23:42 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <5b.2a9993fc.2a5f5f6e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_5b.2a9993fc.2a5f5f6e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:23:42 EDT Status: RO --part1_5b.2a9993fc.2a5f5f6e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another thing you might want to consider on your way to Germany from Calais: France has many EXPENSIVE toll roads. You might want to consider going via Belgium and the Netherlands. You would end up close to Aachen when you come into Germany. It is further mileagewise, but it might pay considering the tolls! When we used to go to England that is the route we used to take, but I also have to admit we were able to use military gas coupons in the Netherlands which also made a major difference on gas prices. So before mapping out your route check the Gad Prices as well as the toll costs. Should you decide to go that route you must check out Aachen. It is the city where the Emperors of The Roman Empire were crowned (Charles the great as we Germans call him, etc.) It is worth the time. Not sure about which museums there, but I am sure there are some you would not want to miss. Some other places on that route to check put would be Gent and Brugge. (Bobbin Lace, etc.) Now I really gave you something to think about. Sorry. How much time do you have? You also might try to post questions to the Drachenwald Mailing List. Drachenwald is the name of the European SCA "Kingdom", which does encompass Europe, South Africa, Turkey and Israel. There are groups everywhere who can tell you about the museums etc. in the various towns. Specially the ones that are a little of the beaten track. As I said before I am from Southern Germany, so I am not as familiar with the Northern parts. I am not trying to push SCA here, but this is one way how to get lots of info from locals. Good Luck. Have fun. I think you will be extremely busy!!!!! Elisabeth --part1_5b.2a9993fc.2a5f5f6e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another thing you might want to consider on your way to Germany from Calais:
France has many EXPENSIVE toll roads.  You might want to consider going via Belgium and the Netherlands.  You would end up close to Aachen when you come into Germany.  It is further mileagewise, but it might pay considering the tolls!  When we used to go to England that is the route we used to take, but I also have to admit we were able to use military gas coupons in the Netherlands which also made a major difference on gas prices.  So before mapping out your route check the Gad Prices as well as the toll costs.

Should you decide to go that route you must check out Aachen.  It is the city where the Emperors of The Roman Empire were crowned (Charles the great as we Germans call him, etc.)  It is worth the time.  Not sure about which museums there, but I am sure there are some you would not want to miss.

Some other places on that route to check put would be Gent and Brugge.  (Bobbin Lace, etc.)

Now I really gave you something to think about.  Sorry.  How much time do you have?  You also might try to post questions to the Drachenwald Mailing List.  Drachenwald is the name of the European SCA "Kingdom", which does encompass Europe, South Africa, Turkey and Israel.  There are groups everywhere who can tell you about the museums etc. in the various towns.  Specially the ones that are a little of the beaten track.  
As I said before I am from Southern Germany, so I am not as familiar with the Northern parts.

I am not trying to push SCA here, but this is one way how to get lots of info from locals.

Good Luck.  Have fun.  I think you will be extremely busy!!!!!
Elisabeth --part1_5b.2a9993fc.2a5f5f6e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 18:43:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15136 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:43:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BMR3E11840; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BMR1429349; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BMQu429314 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g6BMQse474249 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:26:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: Pendleton wool cheap (was Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020711140355.00d062b0@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:26:54 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO There are Pendleton outlets all over the country. The two in Nebraska usually charge $1/lb for their reminants (which tend to be in pieces 2 yards long or less, though I did luck out on one eight yard royal purple herribone twill that had some dye flaws I can cut around)) and their rolls range from $3 to $6/yd. They also have finished goods, including blankets and clothing, both overstocks and seconds, all discounted. Emma On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > Try the Pendleton Wool outlet in Washugal, WA. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 19:26:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15287 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:26:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BNB8E15297; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BNB6420197; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BN9o419568 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-63.208.30.83.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [63.208.30.83]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6BN9nt131240 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:09:49 -0400 Message-ID: <002401c22930$45665aa0$531ed03f@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: Subject: Re: Pendleton wool cheap (was Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:11:20 -0400 Status: RO Does anyone know of one anywhere near Florida? I could only find the ones in Oregon listed on the website. Moira > > There are Pendleton outlets all over the country. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 19:33:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15328 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:33:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BNI6E15801; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BNI6423170; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BNHM422869 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ30055HY0W1X@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:17:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Pendleton wool cheap (was Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020711161307.00c88c90@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020711140355.00d062b0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:13:56 -0700 Status: RO >There are Pendleton outlets all over the country. Woo hoo! >The two in Nebraska >usually charge $1/lb for their reminants (which tend to be in pieces 2 >yards long or less, though I did luck out on one eight yard royal purple >herribone twill that had some dye flaws I can cut around)) and their rolls >range from $3 to $6/yd. They also have finished goods, including blankets >and clothing, both overstocks and seconds, all discounted. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 19:33:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15332 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:33:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6BNI1E15789; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BNI0423132; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BNHL422864 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ30055HY0W1X@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:17:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia In-reply-to: <001101c22921$23bc5580$23a0f7c6@marnadav> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020711160853.00d09480@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:12:40 -0700 Status: RO >If it makes sense to you for on time/period place why not another? Because just because it could have happened doesn't prove that it did happen. >(just >curious and not meaning to be offensive or problematic...- maybe the ladies >got the idea from reading an Italian history? Just because one lived "out >west" in the 1880's did not mean they were uneducated or "wild" themselves) Trying not to be offensive or problematic too. And nobody ever said these women were uneducated. My family, in the wilds of the Territory of Montana in the 1880s, were as well read as they could manage. >I swear upon my honor >it was taken from a newspaper account in a book I read- but unfortunately it >was before I developed my survival instinct of being able to quote exactly >where I found stuff at, and was 2 moves and a divorce ago when I did that >particular research. I will eventually "refind" it but my time is rather >pressed at the moment. I believe you read something a while ago, and that only makes me want you to find it so we all can see it. I would, for example, like to find out which town, and which year, this article mentioned. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 21:31:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15900 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:31:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6C1F6E22073; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C1F1400802; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C1En400734 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:14:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.128] (pm4-128.eos.net [205.133.149.128]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24411 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:14:46 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200207112210.g6BMA2420300@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: US fabric stores Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:14:44 -0400 Status: RO Ditto what Robin said. I just thought I'd add that another good way to look at Wal-Mart (a store I hate) is that it's sort of a mini-mall all in itself. The US had "variety stores" for decades, but Wal-Mart took the idea a whole level up by building truly giant stores that sold/sell everything you might possibly want, at inexpensive prices. So Wal-Marts are rather like small grocery stores, small clothing stores, small toy stores, small automotive stores, small fabric and craft stores, etc. all rolled into one. One of the SCA groups in our Barony (we're very unusual in that we have six groups) is located in a very small farm town in Northwest Ohio. The members get all their fabric at Wal-Mart. And while their clothes aren't exactly reenactment level, they have a wonderful time and they are searching for bargains. If they had to deal with a small-town independent store, I imagine that they would end up paying a lot more for the same sort of goods. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 22:25:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16034 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:25:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6C291E24235; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C290414910; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C28S414810 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:08:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.206.137.103] (account axejudge@accessus.net HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.6) with ESMTP id 89019918 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:08:22 -0500 Message-ID: <3D2E3A29.1000508@accessus.net> From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010103030704000705080800" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: axejudge@accessus.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:08:41 -0500 Status: RO --------------010103030704000705080800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if this will help, but www.silkconnection.com has heavy bridal satin (23 mm). Karen Robin Netherton wrote: >On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: > >>where do you find your silks online? I'd love to find some nice >>duschess satins.... >> > >Anatol's, which is local to me, carries duchess silk satins, and I believe >they have an online presence -- try http://www.bridalfabric.com . But >they're really expensive. > >--Robin > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > --------------010103030704000705080800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if this will help, but www.silkconnection.com has heavy bridal satin (23 mm).

Karen

Robin Netherton wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Heather Meadows wrote:

where do you find your silks online?  I'd love to find some nice
duschess satins....

Anatol's, which is local to me, carries duchess silk satins, and I believe
they have an online presence -- try http://www.bridalfabric.com . But
they're really expensive.

--Robin

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h-costume mailing list
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--------------010103030704000705080800-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 11 23:47:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16260 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:47:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6C3W2E27710; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C3W1404854; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (smtp.netins.net [167.142.225.202]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C3VE404618 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:31:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [167.142.14.129] (HELO hppav) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 108352634 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:43:00 -0500 Message-ID: <012301c22944$e8e2fc60$810e8ea7@hppav> From: "Land of Oz" To: References: <3D2C9456.19.158B6CB8@localhost> <3D2D82C5.314EDF5B@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] flax Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:39:05 -0500 Status: RO I mostly lurk, and I got a little behind reading, but I do remember someone asking for a source of flax seed in small quantities. Please contact me privately. I've grown flax and I've spun flax, but I've not spun my own home grown flax (yet). We have wild nettle weeds here, but I've not managed to harvest any to try and prepare it for spinning (yet). We also have hemp here, and I have spun hemp, but it was from a commercial source. In the USA it is a crime to have hemp plants in your possession, regardless of the intended use. The hemp that grows here (Iowa) is escaped varieties of cultivated rope hemp that was grown by farmers prior to WWII (I believe) and isn't any good for smoking anyway. So I'm told. :-) Ozzie landofoz@netins.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 00:37:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16454 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:37:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6C4L2E00284; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C4L1417324; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C4Ka417188 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:20:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-0ccsqh2.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.106.34] helo=earthlink.net) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Srv1-0005Tq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:20:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3D2E58BD.C166B30@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th Century French lady References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:19:09 -0500 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > from a practical standpoint, it's a royal nuisance to use a toilet when > you're wearing underwear beneath long, full skirts, and that nuisance > would be compounded to near impossibility with a chamberpot. By contrast, > without the encumbrance of underwear, chamberpot use in full skirts would > be simple -- straddle and squat. My great-grandmother (born 1899) told me a story of when she was a girl. She had to work in the potato fields in Maine and wore long skirts. She said they didn't wear underwear because it made it easier to relieve themselves in the field without having to walk over to bushes. --Charlene -- An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. --Anatole France _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 02:25:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA30984 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:25:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6C6A1E04326; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C6A0413174; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C69L413027 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtnqd.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.223.77]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17StcC-0008Hs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:09:16 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: [SCA-U] CONF: Elizabeth's Body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:29:40 -0700 Status: RO This is NOT a costume conference, but I thought it might interest someone! >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:53:55 -0400 >From: Hope Greenberg >Subject: [SCA-U] CONF: Elizabeth's Body >To: SCA-UNIVERSITAS@LIST.UVM.EDU > >We are seeking a third panelist for a session on "Elizabeth's Aging >Body" to be proposed for *Elizabeth R.*, the conference >commemorating the 400th anniversary of the death of Queen Elizabeth >I to be held 21-23 March 2003 at Southern Illinois University >Edwardsville. > >We welcome papers that address representations of Elizabeth's body >during the last decade of her reign, and/or in the immediate aftermath of her >death. Topics might include the "mask of youth" or other >constructions of Elizabeth's >body in the propaganda of her later reign, visual or verbal >descriptions of the >queen's body as subject or not subject to time, discussions of >specific funeral or posthumous depictions, and/or the cultural >effects of the queen's aging on conceptions of the political or >natural body. > >Please send abstracts (250-300 words) by 26 July to: >Cora Fox , and Richelle Munkhoff >---------------------------- >Richelle Munkhoff >Assistant Professor >Department of English >Tulane University >New Orleans, LA 70118 >504-862-8171 (o) >504-862-8958 (f) >rmunkhof@tulane.edu -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 04:06:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13279 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 04:06:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6C7ngE07061; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C7l0403260; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6C7kZ403160 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:46:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020712074634.17536.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:46:34 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5b.2a9993fc.2a5f5f6e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:46:34 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- BOSTONHAHN@aol.com wrote: > Another thing you might want to consider on your way to Germany from Calais: > France has many EXPENSIVE toll roads. I personally don't find them that expensive, but then I live in England... and I fully agree if you go to Germany, don't go via France if you come from Calais, but definitely via Belgium (use the Amsterdam route, not the Brussels and Liege one, unless it is late at night. Brussels ringroad is even more congested usually than Amsterdam) That's the route I always take, can you tell? :-) You might want to consider going via > Belgium and the Netherlands. You would end up close to Aachen when you come > into Germany. Oh yes, oh yes! Go and see Aachen! See Charlemagne's magnificent cathedral, go and have a fantastic coffee and warm apple strudel with vanilla ice and cream in the Alt Aachener Kaffeestuben right to the left of the medieval town hall in the town square. And please, plaese, give a greeting to Aachen from an expatriat who loved Aachen very much for the 12 years of living there. It is further mileagewise, but it might pay considering the > tolls! Hmm.. I actually find it not too bad, but then I always go via Aachen anyway. I also agree that you should definitely pay a visit to Bruge and to Ghent if possible. The rest of Belgium is, let's say, flat and deadly boring. :-) When we used to go to England that is the route we used to take, but > I also have to admit we were able to use military gas coupons in the > Netherlands which also made a major difference on gas prices. So before > mapping out your route check the Gad Prices as well as the toll costs. hehehe, once again I can only say, when you live in England you consider petrol prices CHEAP everywhere else. > Should you decide to go that route you must check out Aachen. It is the city > where the Emperors of The Roman Empire were crowned (Charles the great as we > Germans call him, etc.) It is worth the time. Not sure about which museums > there, but I am sure there are some you would not want to miss. The Couven museum is nice, and the treasure, you HAVE to see the cathedral treasure, they have changing exhibitions of textiles there! The Suermondt Ludwig museum is nice too. Don't forget to buy Aachener chocolate Printen. *drools* and you MUST have some Belgian fries with Belgian mayonnaise before you get to Aachen. Oh my, it's only early morning and I am already thinking about the great continental food. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 04:11:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20785 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 04:11:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6C7tME07222; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:55:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C7qf404462; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:52:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6C7mR403633 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020712074827.42406.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:48:27 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:48:27 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Jean Waddie wrote: > > cloth and knitting yarn. Fabric shops in the UK are generally specialist > and found down obscure side-streets - never, ever in a mall! Was I just > very fortunate in the places I went? Ha, I can contradict you, there is a small one in the Chatham Pentagon shopping centre (something like a nmart I'd say) :-))) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 04:55:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27006 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 04:55:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6C8e4E09275; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C8bN415114; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:37:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6C8Sx413111 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:28:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03725.; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:29:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:28:52 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of weeds.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6C8Sx413111 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:28:43 +0100 Status: RO Sue wrote: >>>I'd have to ask our local weed expert which type of tansy this is...it grows fairly tall, has feathery-looking leaves, and a kind of umbrella-shaped, composite flower head (reminds me of same sort of shape as, say, queen anne's lace, or dill), with bright yellow, round flowers no bigger than my thumb nail. Sounds like the tansy I know. The flowers are like little yellow buttons. I don't think we have tansy ragwort in the UK, but presumably it is so called because it belongs to the ragwort family but looks rather like tansy. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 09:22:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28282 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:22:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CD62E16899; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CD60413300; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6CD5L413077 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Fri Jul 12 08:05:00 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:05:01 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6CD5L413077 Subject: [h-cost] Jo Anns and Wal Mart Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:04:55 -0500 Status: RO We are lucky to have two of the big Jo Ann's Etc. in my area, altho they are on opposite sides of town. There are two smaller ones nearer to where I live. Availability of a particular fabric seems to be hit or miss, found some great linen blends left at one, nothing but bright or pastels at the others. Just means I have to visit them all on a regular basis to keep up with the inventory :). Wal-Mart has moved into town as well and sometimes they have some *great* bargains on the $1 or $2 tables. One year I made a killing on lightweight washable wool :). These bargains seem to be fewer and far between however and the new super Wal-Mart that open about a year and a half ago only has the pre-measured fabric, no cut-to-order on the bolts, yuk! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 09:42:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28429 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:42:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CDQ1E17936; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CDQ0418728; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21301.mail.yahoo.com (web21301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.212]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6CDPK418546 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020712132519.51962.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:25:19 PDT From: kj green To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-868670239-1026480319=:45385" Subject: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores, was: different velvets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --0-868670239-1026480319=:45385 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I do look in the fabric department of every Wal-Mart that I happen to be in. You just never know what you're going to find on the dollar a yard racks. I've gotten 10 yards of a 60" wide black linen blend, 7 yards of a 36" wide moss green linen blend--treasures like that. And it's a great place if you're dressing teenagers for Pennsic (SCA)--2 weeks of camping means loads of clothing, especially for 2 girls! The reason that you're seeing fewer Piece Goods stores is that they were bought by Jo-Ann's several years ago. I also seem to remember that So-Fro has gone under too (all of the local ones have been gone for at least 5 years). I just hate going into the Jo-Ann's ETC. The fabric's overpriced and the clerks don't know where anything is outside of their own department. When Jo-Ann's got ready to open the ETC, they closed all of their other local stores. Aside from the ETC and Wal-Mart, there's nothing within an hour's drive in any direction from my house. The closest Hancock's is about 1-1/4 hours east of here. I did write to Hancock and suggested that they might want to consider opening a store in the area, but they said that they'd done a study and it just wasn't viable. I do think it's odd that there are NO Hancock stores in the area, though. They are in Cleveland (North), Youngstown (East), and in Columbus (2.5 hours South). Hmph! I think that they're afraid of Jo-Ann's--Jo-Ann's corporate headquarters are a little over an hour from here. But that's just my personal opinion. kate Robin Netherton wrote: *snip* In more urban areas where fabric is easier to come by, Wal-Mart is not the consumer's top choice for fabric shopping, so those stores often have a smaller fabric department or none at all. (In my metro area, I might pick up thread at Wal-Mart while I'm shopping there for something else, but I don't go there specifically for fabric, unless maybe I need cheap cotton.) As to mall stores, a few of the U.S. fabric store chains (So-Fro, Piece Goods) were often located in malls, but I see less and less of those these days. Most of the ones I know are in older malls and are well-established. The idea of three fabric stores in one mall does surprise me. Remember, too, there's a great difference between the mall culture of North America and that of the UK. We also have a large presence of "strip centers" -- collections of stores, often parallel to a road with a shared parking lot, that provide the advantage of clustered stores without the parking problems or expensive architecture of malls. Fabric stores often are located in these groupings. --Robin --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access --0-868670239-1026480319=:45385 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I do look in the fabric department of every Wal-Mart that I happen to be in. You just never know what you're going to find on the dollar a yard racks. I've gotten 10 yards of a 60" wide black linen blend, 7 yards of a 36" wide moss green linen blend--treasures like that. And it's a great place if you're dressing teenagers for Pennsic (SCA)--2 weeks of camping means loads of clothing, especially for 2 girls!

The reason that you're seeing fewer Piece Goods stores is that they were bought by Jo-Ann's several years ago. I also seem to remember that So-Fro has gone under too (all of the local ones have been gone for at least 5 years).

I just hate going into the Jo-Ann's ETC. The fabric's overpriced and the clerks don't know where anything is outside of their own department. When Jo-Ann's got ready to open the ETC, they closed all of their other local stores. Aside from the ETC and Wal-Mart, there's nothing within an hour's drive in any direction from my house. The closest Hancock's is about 1-1/4 hours east of here.

I did write to Hancock and suggested that they might want to consider opening a store in the area, but they said that they'd done a study and it just wasn't viable. I do think it's odd that there are NO Hancock stores in the area, though. They are in Cleveland (North), Youngstown (East), and in Columbus (2.5 hours South). Hmph! I think that they're afraid of Jo-Ann's--Jo-Ann's corporate headquarters are a little over an hour from here. But that's just my personal opinion.

kate

  Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net> wrote:

*snip*
In more urban areas where fabric is easier to come by, Wal-Mart is not the
consumer's top choice for fabric shopping, so those stores often have a
smaller fabric department or none at all. (In my metro area, I might pick
up thread at Wal-Mart while I'm shopping there for something else, but I
don't go there specifically for fabric, unless maybe I need cheap cotton.)

As to mall stores, a few of the U.S. fabric store chains (So-Fro, Piece
Goods) were often located in malls, but I see less and less of those these
days. Most of the ones I know are in older malls and are well-established.
The idea of three fabric stores in one mall does surprise me. Remember,
too, there's a great difference between the mall culture of North America
and that of the UK. We also have a large presence of "strip centers" --
collections of stores, often parallel to a road with a shared parking lot,
that provide the advantage of clustered stores witho! ut the parking
problems or expensive architecture of malls. Fabric stores often are
located in these groupings.

--Robin


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New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access --0-868670239-1026480319=:45385-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 09:45:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28437 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:44:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CDT1E18103; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CDT0419807; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21301.mail.yahoo.com (web21301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.212]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6CDSQ419510 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020712132825.52532.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:28:25 PDT From: kj green To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-794989182-1026480505=:52370" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Jo Anns and Wal Mart Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --0-794989182-1026480505=:52370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Interesting. A few years ago Wal-Mart was thinking about changing all of their stores to pre-cuts only. There was such an overwhelmingly negative response from the public that they decided against doing it. I hope that they're not changing their mind. kate Catherine Kinsey wrote: Wal-Mart has moved into town as well and sometimes they have some *great* bargains on the $1 or $2 tables. One year I made a killing on lightweight washable wool :). These bargains seem to be fewer and far between however and the new super Wal-Mart that open about a year and a half ago only has the pre-measured fabric, no cut-to-order on the bolts, yuk! --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access --0-794989182-1026480505=:52370 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Interesting. A few years ago Wal-Mart was thinking about changing all of their stores to pre-cuts only. There was such an overwhelmingly negative response from the public that they decided against doing it.

I hope that they're not changing their mind.

kate

  Catherine Kinsey <Ckinsey@kumc.edu> wrote:

Wal-Mart has moved into town as well and sometimes they have some *great* bargains on the $1 or $2 tables. One year I made a killing on lightweight washable wool :). These bargains seem to be fewer and far between however and the new super Wal-Mart that open about a year and a half ago only has the pre-measured fabric, no cut-to-order on the bolts, yuk!


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New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access --0-794989182-1026480505=:52370-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 10:39:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28664 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:38:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CEN2E21311; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CEN1408299; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CEMP408004 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CEMNp31791 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:22:23 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020712132825.52532.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Subject: [h-cost] Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:22:23 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO I'm reading Margareta Nockert's _Bockstenmannen och hans dräkt_ these days, and although I understand most of it fine since I speak Norwegian, I'm stumped when it comes to specialized terms for types of stitches and suchlike. (Also, so much of my research comes from English books that I know English terminology better on some points - hopeless when I'm talking to other Norwegians. :) ) So I was wondering if anyone out there could translate a few things for me? The words I'm wondering about are: smygsöm förstygn efterstygn kaststygn also, I'm not positive that I understand how the seams are finished: "Alla sömmar, utom de där stadkant ligger mot stadkant, är sydda med dubbla sömmar. Tygstyckerna har först satts ihop, sedan har bĺda sömsmĺnerna vikts ĺt samma hĺll och sytts ned mot tyget. Fĺllarna längs nederkant, ärmlinningar och halsrigning är sydda med enkel vikning. Vilken typ av stygn som använts till de olika sömmarna är svĺrt att bedömma pĺ grund av det stora antalet stygnmärken i tyget. Möjligen har sömmarna sytts ihop med för- eller efterstygn och sedan har sömsmĺnerna sytts ned mot tyget med förstygn eller kastestygn. Vid ĺtermonteringen syddes alla sömmar med smygsöm og sömsmĺnerna kastades fast ĺt det hĺll de strävade. Fĺllerna gick til skillnad mot sömmarna att sy i de ursprungliga stygnhĺlen. De har sannolikt varit sydda med kaststygn, vilket ocksĺ gjordes vid ĺtermonteringen." The way I read this, both seam allowances have been double-folded together and turned to the same side, while the hems are single-folded. Or are the seam allowances single-folded as well? Also, I'm wondering if there's any other documentation from around this period for both seam allowances being turned down together and not separately - the book isn't clear on whether the seam allowances were just put back the way they were assembled i 1936 or if there was any change. It does say that the seam allowances were sewed down together in the direction they leaned (strävade), but that may well be from more than 35 years of being bent that way. I don't have access to any of the sources she lists for stitches right now, so I thought I'd ask. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 13:03:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29398 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:03:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CGl3E03433; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CGl1417643; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6CGkI417192 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 12663 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2002 16:46:18 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2002 16:46:18 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-101-225.sonic.net [209.148.101.225]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g6CGkHr07235 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:46:17 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D2F08E8.B73705E5@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Source for reproduction jewelry Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:50:49 -0700 Status: RO I recently discovered this web site: Janeliunas Jewelry http://www.jansjewells.com/reproduction.htm They sell Victorian and Art Deco reproductions, originals (see their home page), and supplies and findings. I ordered two of their Victorian repro pieces, which I have not yet received. The pictures, at least, look stunning. The site owner is very helpful. I don't want to pierce my ears, so I only buy earrings that have screw backs (or that I can have converted to them). She contacted the manufacturer, then offered me a choice of two styles of screw back fastenings they can put on for me. She says she still has more pieces to put up on her site, though they may be for her Art Deco line. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 13:23:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29485 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:23:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CH75E05211; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CH74427622; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6CH6l427490 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14470 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2002 17:06:46 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2002 17:06:46 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-101-225.sonic.net [209.148.101.225]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g6CH6kb27291; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:06:46 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D2F0DB5.F1535E82@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, vintage@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Another source for reproduction jewelry Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:11:17 -0700 Status: RO The London Victorian Ring Company http://www.london-victorian-ring.com/ I have never bought from this company. Their stock is "fine" jewelry, only rings are shown, and they probably sell mostly to the bridal market. The styles shown are Victorian, Edwardian, and Art Deco. They are quite attractive--and possibly some list members are about to get married. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 13:53:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29652 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:53:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CHb2E07947; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CHb1413766; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CHa7413304 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip223.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.223] (may be forged)) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6CHa3M17504 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:36:03 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets Message-ID: <3D2EB29F.1316.1DD20A37@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:42:39 -0700 Status: RO > I'm surprised to hear most towns are so short of fabric shops - since > I was completely stunned to find fabric in Wal-Mart in the middle of > Connecticut last year. Fabric in a supermarket? (We needed to do > quick curtains for the windows in the front and side doors of our > rented apartments - a yard of fabric and a bit of masking tape was OK > for a week or two). And in one mall in Quebec there were three shops > selling cloth and knitting yarn. Fabric shops in the UK are generally > specialist and found down obscure side-streets - never, ever in a > mall! Was I just very fortunate in the places I went? Oh, yes. Over the last several years we have lost a lot of our fabric stores. More and more of them are going to fabrics which are really not good for much but curtains or quilts. Now, my main "fabric run" consists of Mill Ends, Fabric Depot, a couple of JoAnn's, the Pendleton woolen mill and maybe a side trip to one of the more esoteric places such as Josephine's Dry Goods, Daisy Kingdom, Calico Corners Interiors or The Whole Nine Yards. It used to be that I also had June's Dry Goods in Lake Oswego (who carried a completely different line of stuff than Josephine's who is very upscale), Jennie's Yardstick in Beaverton, Fabricland (several), Hancock's (several) and another one who's name is escaping me right now. These were all huge stores with interesting, large inventories. That's in less than 10 years that they have disappeared. (Some bought out then abandoned, some retired.) It appears that the "home sewer" is less common and less descriminating, so there is no "need" for so many fabric stores. Also, there's a lot of on-line stuff with whom they can't compete. It won't be long before all we'll have is the out of the way tiny places when you want to actually touch and see the drape of a piece of fabric before you buy it. (Touching a sample will help, but no tiny piece is going to tell me the drape and hand of a particular piece.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 13:53:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29657 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:53:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CHbIE07972; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CHbI413962; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CHaH413385 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:36:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip223.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.223] (may be forged)) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6CHaAM17569 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:36:11 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Pendleton wool cheap (was Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices Message-ID: <3D2EB29F.9575.1DD20999@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3D2D89F4.BEFC5B6D@in-tch.com> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020711140355.00d062b0@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:42:39 -0700 Status: RO > Try the Pendleton Wool outlet in Washugal, WA. The 800 number is > 1-800-568-2480. Call them to find out what they've got, how much it > is, and how they can get it to you. Feel free to pass this number > around - I got it off their flyer in their store. > > I've been there in person (it's across the river from Portland, > Oregon), and the remnant section has bins of 1.5 to 3 yard pieces of > wool fabric in several weights and colours. These will cost anywhere > from $1.50/yd. to $5/yd. The selection of colours will be limited, so > ask the person on the phone what they have, and how much of it there > is, in how big pieces. They may have anything from winter-coat-weight > to summer-suit-weight. They can arrange to ship your fabric to you. As a regular Washougal customer (it's about a 15 minute drive from my house), I don't know if I'd trust them to ship it to me. Since the fabrics are all irregulars, you don't know whether you will be getting the stuff which is only irregular because it is 1" too wide or too narrow, or whether you will get stuff with great hunken holes all the way along it. I watch them like a hawk when it is rolled out, since sometimes the hole will appear at just the wrong minute. Most of the time lately, the cost is $3 a yard but you can sometimes get a full 20yard bolt. They have some special stuff (usually weird brocades) for $10 a yard. While it is an excellent source, I don't feel that it's wise to shop for this one shipped without looking at it first, unless they give you some sort of guarentee. (Frankly, the bolts are so inexpensive these days that I just don't bother with the remnants. When I want wool, I usually want a minimum of 6 yards at a time.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 14:17:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29764 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 14:17:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CI04E10067; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CI02426038; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CHx5425541 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ500ECDDYGF2@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:59:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores, was: different velvets In-reply-to: <20020712132519.51962.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020712100727.00d0da90@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:10:50 -0700 Status: RO >The reason that you're seeing fewer Piece Goods stores is that they were >bought by Jo-Ann's several years ago. I also seem to remember that So-Fro >has gone under too (all of the local ones have been gone for at least 5 >years). I used to work at New York Fabrics (unrelated to the state of New York), and quit shortly after Jo-Anns bought them out. The first thing they did was rip out the carpet, and our feet started hurting right after that. I haven't willingly been in a Jo-Anns since. But that's ancient history. (Fortunately there are other fabric stores in my area.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 15:53:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30378 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:53:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CJajE17762; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:36:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CJag414715; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.47]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CJV9411893 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.44.215]) by mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020712193057.FHXG15849.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:30:57 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020712114741.00a36ec0@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net Subject: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores, was: different velvets In-Reply-To: <200207121802.g6CI2A427396@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:02:26 -0700 Status: RO I live in Los Angeles the San Fernando Valley. The only fabric stores we have in the Valley are JoAnn's. The ETC store is interesting, but I absolutely loathe the smaller stores. They've closed a lot of them, and the few that are left are expensive, badly stocked, and staffed (mostly) arrogant incompetents. That pretty much reflects the attitude of the company itself, I feel. I really hate shopping there, but I can't run downtown every time I need a spool of thread, or a yard of ribbon. About the only worthwhile thing at JoAnns is their periodic sale on patterns when they sell all patterns except Vogue for 99 cents. I know I'm lucky to live reasonably close to downtown Los Angeles and the garment district there. I can't imagine what I'd do if the only access to fabric I had was JoAnns. That's a scary thought! We've got two WalMarts, but they're both the "town" version, with very limited fabric supplies. I check there every time I'm in one, but I've never found anything particularly special there. The nearest Hancocks to me is about 50 miles away. Idon't think I've ever been in one. I did write to them suggesting this area was ripe and ready for a Hancocks, especially since JoAnns has closed so many stores in the Valley. After about 4 months they responded and said their location scout was going to be in Southern California in the near future and did I have any specific areas to suggest they look at. I emailed detailed specifics (there's a brand new mall opened in Burbank, that's absolutely huge, and is the perfect place for a fabric store) so we'll see if anything happens. I mean, the Valley alone has a population of 1.6 million people - three regular JoAnn's and one ETC store is not enough! There's plenty of room for competition. Maybe if there WERE some competition JoAnns would be forced to clean up their act. Julie At 11:02 AM 7/12/2002, you wrote: >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:25:19 -0700 (PDT) >From: kj green >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores, was: different velvets >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > >--0-868670239-1026480319=:45385 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > I do look in the fabric department of every Wal-Mart that I happen to be > in. You just never know what you're going to find on the dollar a yard > racks. I've gotten 10 yards of a 60" wide black linen blend, 7 yards of a > 36" wide moss green linen blend--treasures like that. And it's a great > place if you're dressing teenagers for Pennsic (SCA)--2 weeks of camping > means loads oof clothing, especially for 2 girls! >The reason that you're seeing fewer Piece Goods stores is that they were >bought by Jo-Ann's several years ago. I also seem to remember that So-Fro >has gone under too (all of the local ones have been gone for at least 5 years). >I just hate going into the Jo-Ann's ETC. The fabric's overpriced and the >clerks don't know where anything is outside of their own department. When >Jo-Ann's got ready to open the ETC, they closed all of their other local >stores. Aside from the ETC and Wal-Mart, there's nothing within an hour's >drive in any direction from my house. The closest Hancock's is about 1-1/4 >hours east of here. >I did write to Hancock and suggested that they might want to consider >opening a store in the area, but they said that they'd done a study and it >just wasn't viable. I do think it's odd that there are NO Hancock stores >in the area, though. They are in Cleveland (North), Youngstown (East), and >in Columbus (2.5 hours South). Hmph! I think that they're afraid of >Jo-Ann's--Jo-Ann's corporate headquarters are a little over an hour from >here. But that's just my personal opinion. >kate > Robin Netherton wrote: >*snip* >In more urban areas where fabric is easier to come by, Wal-Mart is not the >consumer's top choice for fabric shopping, so those stores often have a >smaller fabric department or none at all. (In my metro area, I might pick >up thread at Wal-Mart while I'm shopping there for something else, but I >don't go there specifically for fabric, unless maybe I need cheap cotton.) > >As to mall stores, a few of the U.S. fabric store chains (So-Fro, Piece >Goods) were often located in malls, but I see less and less of those these >days. Most of the ones I know are in older malls and are well-established. >The idea of three fabric stores in one mall does surprise me. Remember, >too, there's a great difference between the mall culture of North America >and that of the UK. We also have a large presence of "strip centers" -- >collections of stores, often parallel to a road with a shared parking lot, >that provide the advantage of clustered stores without the parking >problems or expensive architecture of malls. Fabric stores often are >located in these groupings. > >--Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 18:32:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31402 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 18:32:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CMG4E00617; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CMG1404554; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CMFX404343 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:15:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.159] (as3-4-173.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.159]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6CMFUK08508 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6CMFX404343 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:14:52 -0700 Status: RO >I'm reading Margareta Nockert's _Bockstenmannen och hans dräkt_ these >days, and although I understand most of it fine since I speak Norwegian, >I'm stumped when it comes to specialized terms for types of stitches and >suchlike. (Also, so much of my research comes from English books that >I know English terminology better on some points - hopeless when I'm >talking to other Norwegians. :) ) So I was wondering if anyone out there >could translate a few things for me? The words I'm wondering about are: >smygsöm >förstygn >efterstygn >kaststygn Unfortunately, none of these happen to be in the Swedish booklet on medieval embroidery I have -- although it confirms that both "-söm" and "-stygn" seem roughly equivalent to "-stitch" in the sense of identifying a particular type of sewing (which you probably already knew). But just on the off chance that this may be useful to someone else, the booklet is "Prydnadssömmar under medeltiden" by Anne Marie Franzen (Kungl. Vitterhets Historie och Antikvitets Akademien, Stockholm, 1997). The stitch names (which have accompanying diagrams) are: Stjälksöm -- stem stitch Klyvsöm -- split stitch Plattsöm -- seems to include a couple things we'd distinguish in English, including satin stitch and a couple I don't know the names or off the top of my head (a satin-type stitch, but where you just catch under a thread at the end of each stitch, leaving virtually no thread showing on the back; and a sort of back-stitch producing two rows of offset straight stitches -- I ought to know the name of this one) Atlassöm -- this is a satin stitch done in rows with each row slightly overlapping the neighboring ones (with the stitches going in between those of the next row, not splitting them) Schattersöm -- this is what I think is called "short and long", i.e., like the previous, but with stitches of irregular lengths, especially used when shading Korssöm -- cross-stitch; the diagram shows a short-armed cross-stitch Tvistsöm -- the diagram shows a fairly tightly worked herring-bone stitch done in close-packed rows, maybe even in a counted-thread fashion, the accompanying pictures show it being used to solidly cover the ground fabric. It's unclear to me how much of this is part of the definition of the stitch.The work _almost_ looks like a long-armed cross stitch, but the diagram shows herringbone very clearly. Förstygn och rutsöm -- from the diagram and photographs, this seems to be describing counted double-running stitch (i.e. "Holbein stitch") work Vävsöm -- counted pattern darning Neddragen läggsöm -- underside couching Vanlig läggsöm -- topside couching; the diagram and photo both show the couching done in patterns, but it's unclear that the name of the stitch necessarily implies this Dubbel läggsöm -- laid-and-couched work Lasursöm -- or nué; i.e., patterned topside couching where the couching thread "shades" the metallic thread So, totally useless for the immediate question, but maybe useful to someone else. >also, I'm not positive that I understand how the seams are finished: > >"Alla sömmar, utom de där stadkant ligger mot stadkant, är sydda med >dubbla sömmar. Tygstyckerna har först satts ihop, sedan har bĺda >sömsmĺnerna vikts ĺt samma hĺll och sytts ned mot tyget. Fĺllarna längs >nederkant, ärmlinningar och halsrigning är sydda med enkel vikning. >Vilken typ av stygn som använts till de olika sömmarna är svĺrt att >bedömma pĺ grund av det stora antalet stygnmärken i tyget. Möjligen har >sömmarna sytts ihop med för- eller efterstygn och sedan har sömsmĺnerna >sytts ned mot tyget med förstygn eller kastestygn. Vid ĺtermonteringen >syddes alla sömmar med smygsöm og sömsmĺnerna kastades fast ĺt det hĺll >de strävade. Fĺllerna gick til skillnad mot sömmarna att sy i de >ursprungliga stygnhĺlen. De har sannolikt varit sydda med kaststygn, >vilket ocksĺ gjordes vid ĺtermonteringen." > >The way I read this, both seam allowances have been double-folded >together and turned to the same side, while the hems are single-folded. >Or are the seam allowances single-folded as well? Also, I'm wondering if >there's any other documentation from around this period for both seam >allowances being turned down together and not separately - the book >isn't clear on whether the seam allowances were just put back the way >they were assembled i 1936 or if there was any change. It does say that >the seam allowances were sewed down together in the direction they >leaned (strävade), but that may well be from more than 35 years of being >bent that way. I don't have access to any of the sources she lists for >stitches right now, so I thought I'd ask. :) If it's any help, when I was researching constructional sewing in archaeological clothing, by far the "default" seam for joining woolen fabric on structural seams was something that comes out looking a bit like a flat felled seam, except that the sewing is overcasting along the folded edge, rather than a running stitch through all the layers. That is, the fabric goes something like: ____________________ ______ ________| |______________________ with each folded edge overcast to the other fabric. I'm wondering if this could possible correlate with "double-folded together and turned to the same side". Although it's from an earlier century, Hägg's book on the textiles from Hedeby has some fairly exhaustive diagrams of the variety of constructional stitches found in that material, and some of them seem to involve a "sew right sides together, then flatten the allowance and top-stitch" type of approach. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 19:53:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32195 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:53:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6CNc2E05792; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CNc0407712; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CNbB407468 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ500IHHTLWOA@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:37:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020712162912.00c93c40@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1 References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6CNbB407468 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:36:47 -0700 Status: RO >>I'm reading Margareta Nockert's _Bockstenmannen och hans dräkt_ these >>Unfortunately, none of these happen to be in the Swedish booklet on >>medieval embroidery I have I am going to archive your list for the future. I may find a book on Swedish ethnic embroidery some day, at which time the list will be invaluable. The closest I ever got to Scandinavian stitches, in their native language, was a book on crochet, written in Finnish (in the 1960s, so the crochet bridal crowns in it are historical costume). I managed to parse out the basics from the how-to section in the first few pages. Between that, and the really great close-up pictures, I can sort-of crochet in that language. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 20:42:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32743 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:42:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6D0R3E08138; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 18:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6D0R1421956; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 18:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailcity.com (fes4.mail.lycos.com [209.185.123.96]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6D0Qb421837 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 18:26:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Fri Jul 12 17:26:20 2002 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Katie Lewis" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets X-Sender-Ip: 149.169.40.83 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: katie_lewis@lycos.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:26:20 -0400 Status: RO On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:11:34 jane wrote: >Victoria Wickens wrote : > > >> Acetate-Nylon is typically what you find being sold in Jo-Anne's for >> $20+. > >Errm.. what's a "Jo-Anne's"? Is being sold there a good thing or a bad thing? > A American fabric/craft store chain. As they are a modern fabric store the usefulness of their fabric for historical costuming varies and what proportion of their stock is useful varies from store to store. >Although possibly the world "nylon" tells me all I need to know. >Even as a beginner, I suspect that the amount of that used in >medieval times was quite low. What *was* velvet made from? Cotton? >And is the "real thing" even vaguely affordable now? > IIRC it was made out of silk, I don't know when cotton velvet (velveteen) became avalible. Dharma Trading Company (www.dharma.com) sells silk/rayon velvet (silk pile, rayon ground) for $10/yard iirc. I haven't seen 100% silk velvet, so I don't know how it compares. -Katie --- I was actually at Woodstock. That was a weird gig. I fed off a flowerperson, and I spent the next six hours watchin' my hand move. -Spike _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 12 22:32:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01560 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 22:32:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6D2H5E12395; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6D2H1418986; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6D2G2418770 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wolfeml ([12.230.249.75]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020713021557.YWBX24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@wolfeml> for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 02:15:57 +0000 Message-ID: <005f01c22a12$3eb01420$4bf9e60c@attbi.com> From: "Gia_Gavino" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005C_01C229D7.8FCBC9C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] New Email! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:08:52 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C229D7.8FCBC9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings all! I've got a new email address! I've got the old one still, but that will = end in January. As soon as I can get online in that address, I can = unsub the old address. Looking forward to continuing reading this list! Gia/Giacinta ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C229D7.8FCBC9C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings all!
 
I've got a new email address!  = I've got the=20 old one still, but that will end in January.  As soon as I can get = online=20 in that address, I can unsub the old address.
 
Looking forward to continuing reading = this=20 list!
Gia/Giacinta
------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C229D7.8FCBC9C0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 01:25:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03466 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 01:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6D5A8E19061; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6D5A1429346; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6D59C429206 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020713050906.DSKZ24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 05:09:06 +0000 Message-ID: <001101c22a2b$68d5d640$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C229F0.BC5A7590" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Thai Silks has online shopping! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 22:09:04 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C229F0.BC5A7590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh wow... Thai Silks has put their inventory online, with swatches and online = ordering and everything! This may be really bad for my bank account... http://www.thaisilks.com/ - Kendra ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C229F0.BC5A7590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh wow...
 
Thai Silks has put their inventory = online, with=20 swatches and online ordering and everything!  This may be really = bad for my=20 bank account...
 
http://www.thaisilks.com/
 
- Kendra
 
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C229F0.BC5A7590-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 06:53:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16413 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 06:53:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DAc3E27628; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 04:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DAc1400876; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 04:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DAbV400794 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 04:37:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip179.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.179]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g6DAbSV3014180 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 06:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200207131037.g6DAbSV3014180@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia In-Reply-To: <001101c22921$23bc5580$23a0f7c6@marnadav> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 06:34:45 -0400 Status: RO At 04:22 PM 7/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >If it makes sense to you for on time/period place why not another? (just >curious and not meaning to be offensive or problematic...- maybe the ladies >got the idea from reading an Italian history? Just because one lived "out >west" in the 1880's did not mean they were uneducated or "wild" themselves) I don't think that's the problem... I guess what we're reacting to is the tendency for someone to hear one thing (i.e., one Western town did this) and apply it to the whole of the West, or America, or all time: anyone wearing a yellow dress is a prostitute. But one can hardly help someone else taking a snippet of misunderstood information and running with it! -- Mara Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 10:24:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18551 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:24:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DE83E02962; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 08:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DE81411612; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 08:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DE7P411494 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 08:07:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ6004RWXWBXI@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 07:07:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia In-reply-to: <200207131037.g6DAbSV3014180@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020713061138.00c8abf0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <001101c22921$23bc5580$23a0f7c6@marnadav> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 07:07:05 -0700 Status: RO > >If it makes sense to you for on time/period place why not another? (just > >curious and not meaning to be offensive or problematic...- maybe the ladies > >got the idea from reading an Italian history? Just because one lived "out > >west" in the 1880's did not mean they were uneducated or "wild" themselves) > >I don't think that's the problem... I guess what we're reacting to is the >tendency for someone to hear one thing (i.e., one Western town did this) >and apply it to the whole of the West, or America, or all time: anyone >wearing a yellow dress is a prostitute. But one can hardly help someone >else taking a snippet of misunderstood information and running with it! Or one can acquire the habit of recognizing imprecision when one sees it, again, and double-checking at that point. I really like to know what I am talking about, so I ask a lot of questions to that end. I like being able to claim to 'know' things. And the older I get the less often I am able to make that claim, and the more questions I ask. So I'd really like, for example, to read the article this person read about the wearing of yellow by prostitutes, because if it could have happened, maybe this is the place it did happen. Archaic laws are find-able, if one knows where to look, and if I have a town and date to target, maybe I can find this one. Then I can claim to know about one law in one town in one set of years. (I'm trying to work out an idea here, so bear with me as I try to define it so you know what I'm thinking.) Different people have different concepts of preciseness. Two people will look at thing 'a' and thing 'b' and have differing opinions on how closely they correspond, point-to-point. One will say 'they're alike', and the other will say 'they differ in the following respects'. Some are used to a certain amount of imprecision, and will say 'they did this back then'. Others will have learned to say 'this group did this one thing on or about this date', or 'I read an article that claimed this group did this one thing on or about this date'. One will say 'it's close enough', and the other will say 'it's not very close because of this or that detail'. How precisely a reproduced historical costume corresponds with a surviving historical example, be it a painting or an actual garment, is an example of what I am thinking here. For example, one docent says 'that looks old timey', and is satisfied with the correspondence. Another docent, tape measure in hand, will say things like 'the sleeves are not wide enough', etc., and will not be satisfied with the correspondence. It is not my intention to get rude here and call people names. But it is my intention to point out imprecision if I think I see it, in my quest for a little more preciseness in my own 'act' (as in, 'clean up my own act'). I do re-enactment in the various 'Wild West' periods, have heard several rumors about yellow and prostitutes, and would like to have an actual historical fact to add to the next conversation I hear about this topic. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 10:25:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18573 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:25:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DEA1E03043; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 08:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DEA1412061; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 08:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DE9l411998 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 08:09:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZ6004PZY0AYY@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 07:09:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia In-reply-to: <200207131037.g6DAbSV3014180@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020713070807.00cd4b30@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <001101c22921$23bc5580$23a0f7c6@marnadav> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 07:09:43 -0700 Status: RO > >If it makes sense to you for on time/period place why not another? (just > >curious and not meaning to be offensive or problematic...- maybe the ladies > >got the idea from reading an Italian history? Just because one lived "out > >west" in the 1880's did not mean they were uneducated or "wild" themselves) > >I don't think that's the problem... I guess what we're reacting to is the >tendency for someone to hear one thing (i.e., one Western town did this) >and apply it to the whole of the West, or America, or all time: anyone >wearing a yellow dress is a prostitute. But one can hardly help someone >else taking a snippet of misunderstood information and running with it! I just finished the long-winded version, and sent it, so now the short-winded version comes to me clear: I wanted to know, and she didn't tell me at all precisely, and I still want to know. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 11:31:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19345 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:31:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DFG5E05384; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DFG3425947; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DFF6425712 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust243.tnt7.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.229.120.243] helo=hppav) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17TObv-0006E2-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:15:03 -0400 Message-ID: <002801c22a80$640f4ce0$f378e541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] different velvets/finding fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:17:22 -0500 Status: RO In the states unfortunately it seems to be where you live. Here in Missouri you can find fabric in Walmart, its a discount store/supermarket. The main fabric stores in the St Louis area are Hancock's, JoAnn's, and a few locally owned/run such as FashionFabrics, Jackmann's, Eunice Farmer, Anatol's, Sew I Seams. And, yes years ago, there were a few fabric stores in the malls. But then department stores like Penney's and Sear's used to have fabric departments up til about the mid to late 70's. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 11:34:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19393 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:34:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DFJ2E05513; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DFJ1426606; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DFIT426495 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust243.tnt7.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.229.120.243] helo=hppav) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17TOfD-0006et-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:18:27 -0400 Message-ID: <003001c22a80$dde136a0$f378e541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] different velvets/finding fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:20:45 -0500 Status: RO Robin, you give a much better description than I did. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 16:25:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22747 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:25:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DKA4E17096; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 14:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DKA2407881; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 14:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f189.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.189]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DK6d407078 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 14:06:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 13:06:34 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:06:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2002 20:06:34.0276 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9781E40:01C22AA8] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 13:06:33 -0700 Status: RO In other words, we're back to "Ruritanians wore purple feathers on St. Elstrid's Day." :) MaggiRos >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia >Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 07:07:05 -0700 > > >> >If it makes sense to you for on time/period place why not another? (just >> >curious and not meaning to be offensive or problematic...- maybe the >>ladies >> >got the idea from reading an Italian history? Just because one lived >>"out >> >west" in the 1880's did not mean they were uneducated or "wild" >>themselves) >> >>I don't think that's the problem... I guess what we're reacting to is the >>tendency for someone to hear one thing (i.e., one Western town did this) >>and apply it to the whole of the West, or America, or all time: anyone >>wearing a yellow dress is a prostitute. But one can hardly help someone >>else taking a snippet of misunderstood information and running with it! > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 17:32:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23496 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:32:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DLH2E19685; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DLH1423353; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DLCW422360 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:12:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A84F93601F4; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:14:55 -0500 Message-ID: <004501c22ab2$00aedbc0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <001101c22921$23bc5580$23a0f7c6@marnadav> <4.3.1.2.20020713070807.00cd4b30@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:12:31 -0400 Status: RO Okay, this was my fault for reading something fast and not quoting it. I was just trying to lighten things up on the list with some trivia. I tend to scan read, and messed this one up. My apologies to all. I can understand about Marna Jean not having the source on hand since it was research from years ago. It would be nice to have the source, especially since I research color, but I can understand losing documentation and in your earlier days of not documenting something properly. Many of the old timers on the list, knew that I was compiling color names and trends over 18 fashion periods. I had a database with over 3,000 colors names and was planning to write a book with the information. I documented even down to the library that I found the source. Sadly, my computer crashed two years ago and I lost the entire database. We could find everything backed up from the computer but the database. I was so upset and still am. I worked three years on this project and lost it all. The only thing that I have left is my first Excel sheets with 6 months of research. The spreadsheet cut off the sources of the colors. EK! Now, I remember a lot of the names and trends but do not remember the sources. Should I never speak of my findings because I no longer have a list of the documentation sources? I hope not. Since the crash, I had no inspiration to work on my research again. I was really heartbroken. Last weekend, I found some old disks and searched each one praying there was a copy of my database. No luck! This past week, I received a Paris designer book from the 1922, that provides lots of fashion color names for the major designers. So this has given me a little inspiration to maybe add to what is left of my research. BTW, yes, I have learned to backup any project that I am working on. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 18:25:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24090 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:25:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DMA3E21261; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DMA2404988; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f60.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DM7c404500 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:07:33 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 22:07:32 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2002 22:07:33.0092 (UTC) FILETIME=[B00F8A40:01C22AB9] Subject: [h-cost] OT: My novel! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:07:32 -0700 Status: RO I know this is off-topic, but I just have to share this with you all! I just got off the phone with a small publisher I happen to know, and well, they want to publish my first novel! Complete details of covers, design, pub date and all that are still pending, but wheeeeeee!!! I'm SO excited, I can't stand it!!! Doing the Happy Dance in L.A. Wheeeeeee! MaggiRos Obligatory costume content: Everyone in the novel wears 17th century clothes, many of which are taken directly from pictures posted on Nicole Kipar's website. :) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 18:44:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24313 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:44:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DMT5E21945; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DMT3409106; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6DMPC408394 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020713222512.60123.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 23:25:12 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: My novel! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 23:25:12 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Maggie Secara wrote: > > MaggiRos > Obligatory costume content: Everyone in the novel wears 17th century > clothes, many of which are taken directly from pictures posted on Nicole > Kipar's website. :) Ohhhh, the honour, the honour! Congratulations maggiRos! Nicole - happy to be of service *grins* ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 18:44:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24320 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:44:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6DMTJE21964; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DMTJ409160; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DMRN408773 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020713222717.WLVE29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 22:27:17 +0000 Message-ID: <001001c22abc$70b0ac00$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020709184449.00a2ee40@postoffice.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute (WAS: Intro and Revolution In Fashion book) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:27:14 -0700 Status: RO I'm assuming everyone found the Kyoto Costume Institute's digital collections, but in case you didn't, they have some great photos of costumes from their collection at: http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 20:26:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26014 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:26:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6E0B3E25543; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6E0B1402514; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6E081401858 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip80.access-one.com [198.247.160.80]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6E07wf32683 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:07:59 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c22aca$822c58e0$50a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Trivia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:07:46 -0500 Status: RO I know it is very nice to have the source- once again- I mainly introduced the fact into my class because most ladies will quote the "proper ladies don't wear red" thing back at you when you ask about "proper" and "improper" Victorian clothing- its one of those reenactorisms that someone started and is hard to overthrow. I mearly told them that the only color I knew that had been associated with prostitutes in that era was yellow- and that one town had made a law requiring yellow hairbows and the "doves" retaliated by wearing all yellow. So if they were going to pick a "color" for the soiled doves they would be more correct to pick yellow than to pick red. I did also state that the upper class prostitutes would also be most likely to be pretty well dressed the same as the proper ladies of town. Something that comes up in several sources is proper ladies trying to make sure that the soiled doves were set apart from them. Therefore, when I did the original research,- the yellow bow thing did not seem out of the ordinary. I did make particular note of it at the time because we were writing a skit for competition that revolved around the ladies and saloon girls interaction in a town- so that's why it stuck and why I'm quite sure I didn't "mis-remember"- sadly I don't have access to the library that I know I got the original book from- (or I'd just go browse the shelves)and it was a small country library to boot- so no interlibrary loan, etc., etc.... I too, am very fond of being able to "know" something or at least where to look for it- and it upsets me greatly I can not find the book again (I can tell you which ones it is NOT in on the subject!- I re-read several here lately to "refresh my memory" in preparation for class- ha!) I am a big fan of "on the average"- something a lot of reenactors of my period like to leave out and don't like to "prove something" with just one quote or source(otherwise I have this tintype of this wild looking hairstyle from the early bustle era). However, because this was such a hushed profession it makes any information all that much harder to find. It is rather tooth grinding to research, and what I have found is most towns in the old west instead of totally outlawing prostitution, had a tendency to tax and fine it heavily and make all manner of rules and regulations- some quite bizarre- In 1868 in San Antonio Texas the "town fathers" literally "drove" the prostitutes out of the town limits- with no food or shelter. Women would write to local papers complaining of "incursions of the vilest elements of the community" when housing bans on brothel locations were lifted(Tombstone, AZ 1882) and ask incredulously whether they were supposed to just "invite them to our homes, our social circles...?" (Cheyenne, WY 1870) -(from Anne Butler's Daughters of Joy, Sisters of Misery). There were some pretty strange laws on the book- I'm not saying it was universal- just that it had occurred. All I want it the acceptance that it might have been a possibility considering other similar laws concerning prostitutes. MJ . Archaic laws are find-able, if one knows where to look, and >if I have a town and date to target, maybe I can find this one. Then I can >claim to know about one law in one town in one set of years. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 20:26:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26023 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:26:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6E0BLE25567; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:11:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6E0BL402608; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:11:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6E0AW402415 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:10:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.d5.1a232bd0 (3956) for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re:[h-cost] Fabric Prices To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d5.1a232bd0.2a621b6e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:10:22 EDT Status: RO --part1_d5.1a232bd0.2a621b6e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Hard questions to answer... I'd say my fabric choices have gotten better in the sense that I now know from experience which types of fabric really "work" for certain styles -- i.e. drape correctly, hold their shape, etc. Also, I've found many websites and other sources over the years that reduced my costs per yard. This means I can afford to buy better fabrics for the same prices (or cheaper!) than I was paying for lesser fabrics in my college years. So, have my costs gone down? Probably not. Since I can afford to buy more fabric at the cheaper prices, I now make my skirts more full -- which means I buy more yardage. Plus, I'm finding my new fascination with embellishment means I spend more on trims and beads than I do on the fabric for an outfit. And now I can afford accessories... which gets me into even more trouble! How to I keep myself out of bankruptcy, then, and still get my sewing fix? Well, I became a seamstress. Now I sew other people's fabric at other people's expense and get paid to do it! Ha ha! (laughing at myself) I also find that if I work 35 hrs a week sewing, I tend not to want to sew as much on my off days. That means I go through my stash much slower and can't justify buying more fabric. --Gillian --part1_d5.1a232bd0.2a621b6e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<I was just wondering how have your spending habits changed over time while you have been costuming?  Have your spending habits gone up or down?  Also, your fabric choices; better, worse?>>

Hard questions to answer...  I'd say my fabric choices have gotten better in the sense that I now know from experience which types of fabric really "work" for certain styles -- i.e. drape correctly, hold their shape, etc.  Also, I've found many websites and other sources over the years that reduced my costs per yard.  This means I can afford to buy better fabrics for the same prices (or cheaper!) than I was paying for lesser fabrics in my college years.  So, have my costs gone down?  Probably not.  Since I can afford to buy more fabric at the cheaper prices, I now make my skirts more full -- which means I buy more yardage.  Plus, I'm finding my new fascination with embellishment means I spend more on trims and beads than I do on the fabric for an outfit.  And now I can afford accessories... which gets me into even more trouble! 

How to I keep myself out of bankruptcy, then, and still get my sewing fix?  Well, I became a seamstress.  Now I sew other people's fabric at other people's expense and get paid to do it!  Ha ha! (laughing at myself)  I also find that if I work 35 hrs a week sewing, I tend not to want to sew as much on my off days.  That means I go through my stash much slower and can't justify buying more fabric.

--Gillian

 --part1_d5.1a232bd0.2a621b6e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 21:13:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26787 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:13:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6E0w4E26942; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6E0w4411463; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6E0s2410703 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2053.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.53]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21839 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:54:00 -0400 Message-ID: <3D30CA30.8C9355FB@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question from a friend References: <3.0.6.32.20020709164435.00e3c990@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:47:45 -0400 Status: RO Hi. Your question leaves out much info. Which country are we talking about? Any time from the 13th cent. onward? A nightshirt and a gown are two different things, even in 21st cent. costuming vocabulary, and neither one might be what is being looked for, depending on the answers above. If the questioner could be a little more detailed in what they are trying to do with the info (doctoral thesis, fantasy fiction, newspaper article, Girl Scout guidebook, crossword puzzle, bar bet, etc.), perhaps the answer can be more detailed. Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 13 23:20:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27921 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 23:20:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6E359E00866; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:05:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6E351406288; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21301.mail.yahoo.com (web21301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.212]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6E30d405436 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020714030038.87923.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:00:38 PDT From: kj green To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001001c22abc$70b0ac00$befc8218@WERNTO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-850670810-1026615638=:87282" Subject: [h-cost] OT--flowers for an 1890's lady Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --0-850670810-1026615638=:87282 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings. A friend of mine wants me to make her a nosegay of posies suitable for a late 1890's ball (don't know if the locale is England or the US). I'd like to make it as correct as possible. So, does anyone know what would have been appropriate for the time? Thanks! kate --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes --0-850670810-1026615638=:87282 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Greetings.

A friend of mine wants me to make her a nosegay of posies suitable for a late 1890's ball (don't know if the locale is England or the US).

I'd like to make it as correct as possible. So, does anyone know what would have been appropriate for the time?

Thanks!

kate

 


Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes --0-850670810-1026615638=:87282-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 08:07:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32567 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:07:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EBqAE15706; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 05:52:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EBq3410291; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 05:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EBnm409898 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 05:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.f6.1e136835 (4529) for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 07:49:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f6.1e136835.2a62bf53_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 07:49:39 EDT Status: RO --part1_f6.1e136835.2a62bf53_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << oh, most of it is online! only a small amount of things comes from the UK.>> Do share those online sources, by all means! --Gillian --part1_f6.1e136835.2a62bf53_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << <I sure wish I had some of your resources!>

oh, most of it is online! only a small amount of things comes from the UK.>>

Do share those online sources, by all means!

--Gillian


 --part1_f6.1e136835.2a62bf53_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 10:02:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00758 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:02:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EDk4E18715; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 07:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EDk3401875; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 07:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EDga401311 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 07:42:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.113.14646a3d (4529) for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:42:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <113.14646a3d.2a62d9c3@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_113.14646a3d.2a62d9c3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: different velvets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:42:27 EDT Status: RO --part1_113.14646a3d.2a62d9c3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > Acetate-Nylon is typically what you find being sold in Jo-Anne's for=20 > $20+. Panne is crushed velvet... looks like it's been sat on and ironed=20 > that way. It's a neat look, but not for most historical garb that I've=20 > ever seen. > More info: Acetate-Nylon is woven and does not stretch. The drape is...kinda like a thick curtain (trying to put it in newbie terms). This is the fabric you see on formal occasion dresses in department stores in winter. It's mostly a solid color. Dry clean only. Panne is a knit, so it stretches and can be made into very slinky outfits. It's multi-faceted -- because of the fact the velvet's been crushed -- giving it a sparkle. I see panne at many LARPs and at Renfairs; it's also a goth favorite. I'm a goth, and I wear it all the time. It is not a historical fabric, though. Washable! The choice between them depends on where you are wearing the outfit, and the design of the outfit. If it's "black tie," go for the Acetate-Nylon (or Rayon-acetate). If it's a Renaissance fair that's usually muddy, go for the washable and more breathable panne. If it's got to be historically accurate or the pattern demands something a bit stiff, go for the Acetate-Nylon. If you want an outfit to skim your curves and never need ironing, go for the panne. Both are difficult to sew as a beginner, though. Panne stretches, so you must stretch it by hand as you sew. Use a ball point needle in your sewing machine. I also recommend a narrow zigzag or any "broken" stitch -- as opposed to a straight stitch -- to allow the seam thread to stretch along with the fabric. Knits like this do not fray at the edges, and panne is generally not see-through, so you can usually get away without a lining in the garment/outfit. "Real" velvet (acetate-nylon, rayon-acetate, or even silk-rayon-acetate) shifts all over as you sew because of the thick "pile" (=fur) on it. You really need a "velvet foot" or "V foot" attachment for your sewing machine to keep it under control. You also cannot iron the seams open nomally, because you'll make permanent dents in the pile/fur. Some stores sell "velvet needleboards" for ironing on, but the hook side of Velcro works well too. Place the Velcro strip hook-side-up atop your ironing board, then lay the seam you wanna press on top (pile-side-down) and iron gently. Hope all this helped! Gillian-the-seamstress --part1_113.14646a3d.2a62d9c3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit h-costume-request@indra.com writes:

Acetate-Nylon is typically what you find being sold in Jo-Anne's for=20
$20+.  Panne is crushed velvet... looks like it's been sat on and ironed=20
that way.  It's a neat look, but not for most historical garb that I've=20
ever seen.

More info:
Acetate-Nylon  is woven and does not stretch.  The drape is...kinda like a thick curtain (trying to put it in newbie terms).  This is the fabric you see on formal occasion dresses in department stores in winter.  It's mostly a solid color.  Dry clean only.

Panne is a knit, so it stretches and can be made into very slinky outfits.  It's multi-faceted -- because of the fact the velvet's been crushed -- giving it a sparkle.   I see panne at many LARPs and at Renfairs; it's also a goth favorite.  I'm a goth, and I wear it all the time.  It is not a historical fabric, though.  Washable!

The choice between them depends on where you are wearing the outfit, and the design of the outfit.  If it's "black tie," go for the Acetate-Nylon (or Rayon-acetate).  If it's a Renaissance fair that's usually muddy, go for the washable and more breathable panne.  If it's got to be historically accurate or the pattern demands something a bit stiff, go for the Acetate-Nylon.  If you want an outfit to skim your curves and never need ironing, go for the panne.

Both are difficult to sew as a beginner, though.  Panne stretches, so you must stretch it by hand as you sew.  Use a ball point needle in your sewing machine.  I also recommend a narrow zigzag or any "broken" stitch -- as opposed to a straight stitch -- to allow the seam thread to stretch along with the fabric.  Knits like this do not fray at the edges, and panne is generally not see-through, so you can usually get away without a lining in the garment/outfit.

"Real" velvet (acetate-nylon, rayon-acetate, or even silk-rayon-acetate) shifts all over as you sew because of the thick "pile" (=fur) on it.  You really need a "velvet foot" or "V foot" attachment for your sewing machine to keep it under control.  You also cannot iron the seams open nomally, because you'll make permanent dents in the pile/fur.  Some stores sell "velvet needleboards" for ironing on, but the hook side of Velcro works well too.  Place the Velcro strip hook-side-up atop your ironing board, then lay the seam you wanna press on top (pile-side-down) and iron gently.

Hope all this helped!
Gillian-the-seamstress --part1_113.14646a3d.2a62d9c3_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 10:26:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00881 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:26:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EEA3E19437; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EEA1406777; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EE7N406286 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.173.b37621c (4529) for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:07:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <173.b37621c.2a62df8e@aol.com> Subject: Re:Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_173.b37621c.2a62df8e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:07:10 EDT Status: RO --part1_173.b37621c.2a62df8e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My most expensive stuff (carefully folded in my > grandmother's old trunk, so I can save it by throwing it through a > window if there's ever a house fire) is this divine, > scrumptious,black-and-gold upholstery brocade I paid $25/yd for. I will, > someday, > be using it to make a reproduction of the Phoenix portrait of Elizabeth > I. > Oh Sue! You've hit one of my favorites! Please do get around to making that and share LOTS OF PICS! I don't usually want to make exact replicas of paintings, because I don't like knowing my outfit's "been done before". The Phoenix is one exception. I've never found the appropriate brocade, so I told myself that if I ever buy an embroidery machine, the first thing I'm doing is making that fabric. Ambitious, I know... --Gillian --part1_173.b37621c.2a62df8e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My most expensive stuff (carefully folded in my
grandmother's old trunk, so I can save it by throwing it through a
window if there's ever a house fire) is this divine, scrumptious,black-and-gold upholstery brocade I paid $25/yd for.  I will, someday,
be using it to make a reproduction of the Phoenix portrait of Elizabeth
I.

Oh Sue!  You've hit one of my favorites!  Please do get around to making that and share LOTS OF PICS!

I don't usually want to make exact replicas of paintings, because I don't like knowing my outfit's "been done before".  The Phoenix is one exception.  I've never found the appropriate brocade, so I told myself that if I ever buy an embroidery machine, the first thing I'm doing is making that fabric.  Ambitious, I know...

--Gillian --part1_173.b37621c.2a62df8e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 10:37:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00953 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:37:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EEK2E19699; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EEK1408698; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EEIR408354 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.13e.11477e47 (4529) for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:18:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <13e.11477e47.2a62e22a@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_13e.11477e47.2a62e22a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: different velvets -- wool velvet? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:18:18 EDT Status: RO --part1_13e.11477e47.2a62e22a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mohair- not wool- slight difference one's from a sheep the other from a goat- though I suppose one of the longwool breeds like the leicester or cotswold might make passable velvet- I think it is still available or was a few years back- I had a friend who was a large presence in the Angora goat industry and she special ordered mohair velvet for her 19th century couch and chair to be recovered in. MJ Ok, am I allergic to every period fabric but silk?! Grr... I could make such wonderfully authentic garb if I didn't get rashes from wool, linen, mohair/angora, and many of the wild animals they used for fur trim. Just call me synthetic. --Gillian --part1_13e.11477e47.2a62e22a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mohair- not wool- slight difference one's from a sheep the other from a
goat- though I suppose one of the longwool breeds like the leicester or
cotswold might make passable velvet- I think it is still available or was a
few years back- I had a friend who was a large presence in the Angora goat
industry and she special ordered mohair velvet for her 19th century couch
and chair to be recovered in.
MJ


Ok, am I allergic to every period fabric but silk?!  Grr...  I could make such wonderfully authentic garb if I didn't get rashes from wool, linen, mohair/angora, and many of the wild animals they used for fur trim.  Just call me synthetic.

--Gillian --part1_13e.11477e47.2a62e22a_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 11:16:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05190 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:16:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EEx3E21465; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EEx1416389; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EEsu415656 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.7d.2a2860cd (4529) for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:54:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <7d.2a2860cd.2a62eab7@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7d.2a2860cd.2a62eab7_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Walmart pre-cuts? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:54:47 EDT Status: RO --part1_7d.2a2860cd.2a62eab7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/02 2:03:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > Interesting. A few years ago Wal-Mart was thinking about changing all of > their stores to pre-cuts only. There was such an overwhelmingly negative > response from the public that they decided against doing it. > I hope that they're not changing their mind. > Oh gods! Me too! I like that if I find a fabric I adore on the dollar table, I can just buy the whole bolt and not worry about dye lots. Also, you waste less fabric if you can arrange your patterns on a continuous piece, so the bolt really stretches my budget. --part1_7d.2a2860cd.2a62eab7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/02 2:03:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes:


Interesting. A few years ago Wal-Mart was thinking about changing all of their stores to pre-cuts only. There was such an overwhelmingly negative response from the public that they decided against doing it.
I hope that they're not changing their mind.


Oh gods!  Me too!  I like that if I find a fabric I adore on the dollar table, I can just buy the whole bolt and not worry about dye lots.  Also, you waste less fabric if you can arrange your patterns on a continuous piece, so the bolt really stretches my budget. --part1_7d.2a2860cd.2a62eab7_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 11:19:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05223 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:19:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EF42E21704; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EF42417371; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.228]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EExM416457 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:59:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-168-32-190.nyc.rr.com [24.168.32.190]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g6EF0skl012448 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:00:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <173.b37621c.2a62df8e@aol.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:00:28 -0300 Status: RO My most expensive stuff (carefully folded in my grandmother's old trunk.... Not to be a wet blanket, but could you roll it instead of folding it? Won't the creases be hard to get out? Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 11:50:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05483 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:50:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EFYPE23201; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:34:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EFYO423899; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:34:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EFXW423647 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.182.aed59c6 (4529) for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:33:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <182.aed59c6.2a62f3ba@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_182.aed59c6.2a62f3ba_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Another source for reproduction jewelry Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:33:14 EDT Status: RO --part1_182.aed59c6.2a62f3ba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/02 2:03:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > possibly some list members are about to > > get married. > Like me! --Gillian, who is venue-searching for Oct 2003 --part1_182.aed59c6.2a62f3ba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/02 2:03:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes:


possibly some list members are about to

get married.


Like me!

--Gillian, who is venue-searching for Oct 2003 --part1_182.aed59c6.2a62f3ba_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 11:51:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05488 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:51:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EFYHE23179; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EFYD423833; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EFTa422581 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:29:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.13d.1148f753 (4529) for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:29:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <13d.1148f753.2a62f2d9@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_13d.1148f753.2a62f2d9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Tips for bargain shopping at Jo-Ann Fabrics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:29:29 EDT Status: RO --part1_13d.1148f753.2a62f2d9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used to work at Jo-Ann's. I was the "Costume Consultant," according to my manager. Anyway, I know how all the sales work. 1) It's a good idea to hit joann.com and sign up for their mailing list. They'll send you flyers of what's on sale. Only the mailed flyers (not the ones you can pick up in the store) have coupons on the back. Every couple of flyers the coupon will be for "50% off one regular price item". You can use this on any single cut cut of fabric. Need 20 yards of upholstery brocade? Make your own sale with this coupon -- good the whole 20-yard cut! If you want a fabric that's not listed as on sale, wait for this coupon. 2) "Season Finale" is 66% to 75% off. If you see a fabric you want on this sale, BUY IT! Do not wait for it to go on clearance to the "Bargain Section", because the clearance price fabric will not be as cheap! Not true for trims, which get clearanced at insane prices, like the one I got for 10 cents a yd down from $4/yd. That's because they only put trims on clearance when the manufacturer has discontinued the line or Jo-Ann's is dropping that supplier. 3) DO look for the "Fabric Bonanza" section. These fabrics are odd lots from other companies sold at $1.96/yd. Some of the fabrics here are nasty, but I've found 100% wool too (not that I care wear wool). Better yet, wait until you get a flyer saying $0.99/yd Fabric Bonanza. Not only is this half price, but the stores tend to get a large new shipment right before this sale so as not to have upset customers. 4) Close to Christmas, they sometimes (most years) have a $5/yd velvet sale. Look for it in flyers and get there early! It includes the rayon velvets, burnouts, etc, and it's cheaper than online because there's no shipping. 5) You can occasionally find brocades or interesting jaquards on the flatfold table. Flatfolds are NOT remnants; they are upholstery fabrics that do not come on a bolt, so there can be 12 yds there. Just be careful not to get a rubber-backed fabric for sewing clothes. The most expensive flatfold is $9.96/yd, so if you use your 50% coupon... 6) If you sew as a business, you should ask the manager about their 15% Discount. 7) Last but not least, it helps to make friends with the salespeople. They get insider "heads up"s on big sales, and in the smaller (non-ETC) stores they'll often remember an avid costumer. They'll tell you when new stuff you'd like comes in or gets marked down for clearance. (I got e-mail when all the velvet ribbon was discontinued and marked down to 5 and 10 cents a yard. Time for bed now... --Gillian --part1_13d.1148f753.2a62f2d9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used to work at Jo-Ann's.  I was the "Costume Consultant," according to my manager.  Anyway, I know how all the sales work.

1) It's a good idea to hit joann.com and sign up for their mailing list.  They'll send you flyers of what's on sale.  Only the mailed flyers (not the ones you can pick up in the store) have coupons on the back.  Every couple of flyers the coupon will be for "50% off one regular price item".  You can use this on any single cut cut of fabric.  Need 20 yards of upholstery brocade?  Make your own sale with this coupon -- good the whole 20-yard cut!  If you want a fabric that's not listed as on sale,  wait for this coupon.

2) "Season Finale" is 66% to 75% off.  If you see a fabric you want on this sale, BUY IT!  Do not wait for it to go on clearance to the "Bargain Section", because the clearance price fabric will not be as cheap!  Not true for trims, which get clearanced at insane prices, like the one I got for 10 cents a yd down from $4/yd.  That's because they only put trims on clearance when the manufacturer has discontinued the line or Jo-Ann's is dropping that supplier.

3) DO look for the "Fabric Bonanza" section.  These fabrics are odd lots from other companies sold at $1.96/yd.  Some of the fabrics here are nasty, but I've found 100% wool too (not that I care wear wool).  Better yet, wait until you get a flyer saying $0.99/yd Fabric Bonanza.  Not only is this half price, but the stores tend to get a large new shipment right before this sale so as not to have upset customers.

4) Close to Christmas, they sometimes (most years) have a $5/yd velvet sale.  Look for it in flyers and get there early!  It includes the rayon velvets, burnouts, etc, and it's cheaper than online because there's no shipping.

5) You can occasionally find brocades or interesting jaquards on the flatfold table.  Flatfolds are NOT remnants; they are upholstery fabrics that do not come on a bolt, so there can be 12 yds there.   Just be careful not to get a rubber-backed fabric for sewing clothes.  The most expensive flatfold is $9.96/yd, so if you use your 50% coupon...

6) If you sew as a business, you should ask the manager about their 15% Discount.

7) Last but not least, it helps to make friends with the salespeople.  They get insider "heads up"s on big sales, and in the smaller (non-ETC) stores they'll often remember an avid costumer. They'll tell you when new stuff you'd like comes in or gets marked down for clearance.  (I got e-mail when all the velvet ribbon was discontinued and marked down to 5 and 10 cents a yard.

Time for bed now...

--Gillian
 --part1_13d.1148f753.2a62f2d9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 13:29:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06150 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:29:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EHD3E27287; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EHD2415105; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6EHAO414462 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020714171023.30718.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:10:23 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this weekend To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:10:23 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Azelana@aol.com wrote: > << > > oh, most of it is online! only a small amount of things comes from the UK.>> > > Do share those online sources, by all means! > > --Gillian eBay, as I said, eBay. Months and months and months of careful hour long trawlings through eBay. That, and teh fact I have quite a well known web site, Marla mallett contacted me when she sold the needlelace. I bought it within 15 minutes of her mail. :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 14:55:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06666 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:55:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EIb5E01074; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EIb4405433; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EIYt404897 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ToCq-000Flg-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:34:52 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:34:18 +0100 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Jean Waddie wrote: > >> I'm surprised to hear most towns are so short of fabric shops - since >> I was completely stunned to find fabric in Wal-Mart in the middle of >> Connecticut last year. Fabric in a supermarket? (We needed to do >> quick curtains for the windows in the front and side doors of our >> rented apartments - a yard of fabric and a bit of masking tape was OK >> for a week or two). And in one mall in Quebec there were three shops >> selling cloth and knitting yarn. Fabric shops in the UK are generally >> specialist and found down obscure side-streets - never, ever in a >> mall! Was I just very fortunate in the places I went? > >Yes and no. In general, the independent fabric store in the U.S. seems to >be as scarce now as the independent bookstore. They were common enough 10 >years ago, but more and more of them are folding, either because of >competition from chains, declining sales (fewer people are sewing these >days), or general ill climate for small businesses. If you've got one in >your town, it's a thing to treasure. > >Wal-Mart is a different sort of case. It's not what we would call a >supermarket (a term we use for large food stores that also sell soaps, >drugs, sundries, and other household consumables). Wal-Mart falls into the >category of "discount department store," and brings up the cheapest end of >that classification. The chain built its success by bringing mass-market >goods at low prices to small towns and other areas that did not have large >shopping centers and a broad selection of stores. Wal-Mart located its >large retail stores on low-priced property just outside town, offering a >one-stop shop for a large range of useful things -- clothes, hardware, >toys, household goods -- at prices made possible only by high-volume sales >and chain-store scale. (This created a great deal of ill will among small >downtowns, whose smaller, more specialized shops often died from the >competition of the Wal-Mart down the road.) > >Anyway, in areas where the nearest fabric store might be an hour away, or >there might be only a single tiny specialty shop, Wal-Mart became the >chief source of fabric. The stores in less-populated areas thus often have >a large fabric department, with a selection catering to the needs of the >home crafter/sewer: basic low-priced fabrics for casual and family >clothing, quilting supplies, curtain materials, thread and tools, basic >craft items. > >In more urban areas where fabric is easier to come by, Wal-Mart is not the >consumer's top choice for fabric shopping, so those stores often have a >smaller fabric department or none at all. (In my metro area, I might pick >up thread at Wal-Mart while I'm shopping there for something else, but I >don't go there specifically for fabric, unless maybe I need cheap cotton.) > >As to mall stores, a few of the U.S. fabric store chains (So-Fro, Piece >Goods) were often located in malls, but I see less and less of those these >days. Most of the ones I know are in older malls and are well-established. >The idea of three fabric stores in one mall does surprise me. Remember, >too, there's a great difference between the mall culture of North America >and that of the UK. We also have a large presence of "strip centers" -- >collections of stores, often parallel to a road with a shared parking lot, >that provide the advantage of clustered stores without the parking >problems or expensive architecture of malls. Fabric stores often are >located in these groupings. > >--Robin > I can't think of any chain with national coverage in the UK that stocks fabric. The only one would be John Lewis, a fairly upmarket department store which has an outlet in most cities and a few of the large towns around London. Their dress fabrics are expensive and their stock has been shrinking for years. There are some small chains that cover selected areas - Kings Fabrics turns up in a number of Scottish towns, but it's years since I found anything there I wanted. Many general stores and bargain stores stock basic mending kit - thread, needles, maybe some tape or self-adhesive patching, but not cloth. The idea of needing to cater to the home sewer - well, I don't think any of the marketing bods in general retail would even recognise the existence of home sewing in this country. There are an increasing number of shops, and even chains, selling curtains and soft furnishings, but it's mostly ready-made, or for them to make to measure - they rarely expect you to take it home to sew. I am really worried that our very good local fabric store is going that way, as their curtain fabric range is expanding, and they are going to start selling ready-made, and cushions and stuff, and their dress fabric is getting stuffed away under the new "mezzanine floor" where all this is going. There are also lots of patchwork shops, and those selling fabric for Asian traditional clothing, but neither of those are much good for historic costuming, or even modern Western clothes. In the areas I've been, all the Asian stores sell 100% polyester only. Dressmaking is becoming one of those niche areas, where you have to bump into those in the know to be able to find supplies, or get them mail-order. It's almost as bad as...re-enactment. Hold on, I see a connection here! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 16:31:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07520 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:31:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EKG4E05214; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EKG2428357; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f96.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.96]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EKBn427428 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:11:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:11:44 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.81 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:11:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.81] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Walmart pre-cuts? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2002 20:11:44.0153 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC955890:01C22B72] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:11:43 -0700 Status: RO > > > Interesting. A few years ago Wal-Mart was thinking about changing all of > > their stores to pre-cuts only. There was such an overwhelmingly negative > > response from the public that they decided against doing it. > > I hope that they're not changing their mind. > > > >Oh gods! Me too! I like that if I find a fabric I adore on the dollar >table, I can just buy the whole bolt and not worry about dye lots. Also, >you >waste less fabric if you can arrange your patterns on a continuous piece, >so >the bolt really stretches my budget. Not to mention the fact that no one EVER gets the precuts the right length for anything I'd want to make. I either get stuck with twice as much as I wanted or not quite as much as I needed. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 17:35:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08399 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:35:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ELK2E07552; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ELK1412014; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ELIn411766 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:18:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03235 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:43:07 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:43:07 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Jean Waddie wrote: > The idea of needing to cater to the home sewer - well, I don't think > any of the marketing bods in general retail would even recognise the > existence of home sewing in this country. I think you hit an important difference there between the UK and the US. I have a sense that sewing is not as typical an occupation for the British as it is for us. For example, in the States, when I was in school at least, girls had many chances to learn to sew, and you'd be more surprised to find a girl who didn't have at least some basic sewing experience than one who did. We could take "home economics" or sewing classes in school. (Boys were more likely to take "shop" classes that included woodworking and similar skills. Today I gather that the names of the classes are less gender-oriented, and students are welcome to take whichever they want, but I suspect some noticeable gender division remains in class makeup.) I didn't take sewing in school because I'd learned in Girl Scouts, another typical option. Some of my friends learned from their mothers, grandmothers, or sisters. It's common to have a sewing machine in one's home -- even my mother, who doesn't sew, had (and still has) a machine for mending. Also, crafts such as quilting, which require some sewing equipment and knowledge, are extremely popular. Am I correct in my impression that this is not the state in Britain? If sewing is considered a specialty skill or hobby, fabric stores would be considered specialty stores. That's the niche that leather or woodworking stores occupy here -- that is, those are crafts that require specific materials, but you're very lucky if you have a suitable supplier in town, and you'd expect to find them in out-of-the-way places. I suspect that if it wasn't for the huge popularity of quilting and similar crafts here, sewing stores would be far less common and accessible than they are today. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 19:17:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09242 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:17:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6EN0EE11583; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:00:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EN06404923; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay8.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay8.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6EMvn404460 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:57:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.52.227.179] ([24.52.227.179]) by smtprelay8.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GZ9H4501.5A3 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:57:41 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:57:40 -0400 Status: RO My husband and I were fortunate in that we were able to honeymoon in London 'lo those many (5:) years ago. We took the 'rail out to Bath as a daytrip and discovered a rather hole-in-the-wall fabric shop. I took pictures to show a friend that owns/runs a similar styled store locally. If the store in question is still around, I highly recommend it as they carried a fair selection of silk, linen and wool. I don't recall the name of it, but Bath isn't terribly large. I do recall that it wasn't far from the roman baths. Laurie > I can't think of any chain with national coverage in the UK that stocks > fabric. The only one would be John Lewis, a fairly upmarket department > store which has an outlet in most cities and a few of the large towns > around London. Their dress fabrics are expensive and their stock has > been shrinking for years. There are some small chains that cover > selected areas - Kings Fabrics turns up in a number of Scottish towns, > but it's years since I found anything there I wanted. > > Many general stores and bargain stores stock basic mending kit - thread, > needles, maybe some tape or self-adhesive patching, but not cloth. The > idea of needing to cater to the home sewer - well, I don't think any of > the marketing bods in general retail would even recognise the existence > of home sewing in this country. > > There are an increasing number of shops, and even chains, selling > curtains and soft furnishings, but it's mostly ready-made, or for them > to make to measure - they rarely expect you to take it home to sew. I > am really worried that our very good local fabric store is going that > way, as their curtain fabric range is expanding, and they are going to > start selling ready-made, and cushions and stuff, and their dress fabric > is getting stuffed away under the new "mezzanine floor" where all this > is going. > > There are also lots of patchwork shops, and those selling fabric for > Asian traditional clothing, but neither of those are much good for > historic costuming, or even modern Western clothes. In the areas I've > been, all the Asian stores sell 100% polyester only. Dressmaking is > becoming one of those niche areas, where you have to bump into those in > the know to be able to find supplies, or get them mail-order. It's > almost as bad as...re-enactment. Hold on, I see a connection here! > > Jean _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 21:33:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10216 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:33:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F1H4E17582; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F1H2407874; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F1Gi407804 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04317 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:41:04 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Running dye question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:41:04 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO This isn't quite a historic issue, but it's a fabric issue, and this list probably contains the expertise to help! I bought some printed linen: black background, splashy white flowers. After I bought it, I realized it had tiny bit of lycra in it, too -- one of those new "stretch linen" fabrics. (Why do they keep ruining perfectly good linens and wools by adding lycra?) I decided the stretch wouldn't be a problem for this particular (non-historic) project, but I also realized I'd better avoid the higher heat settings for washing/drying/ironing I'd usually use with linen. So I washed it on warm, dried it delicate. And the black dye bled all over the white flowers. The result was a batik-like grey streaking across the entire print. Oddly, I like it better this way! The original design was a bit too stark for my taste, and I almost didn't buy it for that reason. So now I have a print with a really nice irregular grey pattern behind the white areas. My question: How do I keep it this way? Should I expect that the dye will continue to run on further washings, or will it stay put? Should I just dry-clean the finished garment? I don't want to run it through the wash with a dye magnet, because I want to keep the streaking that's already there. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 21:47:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10275 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:47:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F1W7E18189; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:32:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F1W3411403; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F1TV410819 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Tug6-0006t5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:29:30 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute (WAS: Intro and Revolution In Fashion book) Organization: PII Message-ID: <000301c22b9d$80e5d140$6601a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001001c22abc$70b0ac00$befc8218@WERNTO> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:18:18 -0700 Status: RO Wow, I hate to admit my biased expectations, but I was expecting oriental fashions! Fabulous stuff-thank you for sharing-I'd not have known about it otherwise. SG **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kendra Van Cleave **Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 3:27 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute (WAS: Intro and **Revolution In Fashion book) ** ** **I'm assuming everyone found the Kyoto Costume Institute's **digital collections, but in case you didn't, they have some **great photos of costumes from their collection at: ** **http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html ** **- Kendra ** ** ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 21:47:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10279 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:47:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F1WFE18207; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F1WF411471; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F1V9411196 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020715013104.LDFP29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:31:04 +0000 Message-ID: <3D3225D1.2040903@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Costuming Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] 73 Online Fabric Stores Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:30:57 -0700 Status: RO Greetings to one and all, Since the subject came up about fabric stores (online or actual stores). I thought I would see what I could find online. And I found fabric heaven. :) I've only went through a couple of the stores so far since I'm not feeling so well right now. Here is the website addy: http://www.rollanet.org/~anderson/fabricstores.html In the Service of Sewing (even if I am a 43 yr old beginner), Roscelin/Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 22:07:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10426 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:07:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F1q3E19758; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F1q2416879; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F1ld415728 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:47:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id TAA25939 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:07:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207150207.TAA25939@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Running dye question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: [...] > So now I have a print with a really nice irregular grey pattern behind the > white areas. My question: How do I keep it this way? Should I expect that > the dye will continue to run on further washings, or will it stay put? > Should I just dry-clean the finished garment? I don't want to run it > through the wash with a dye magnet, because I want to keep the streaking > that's already there. Try a dye fixative. Dharma Trading Company's house brand one is what I use to fix batiks on the rare occasion that I do batik. Since I've been doing a bunch of vat dyeing using black, red and bright blue this week, I've been using the dye fixative in the final rinse (their suggestion for colors that run and fade). The only catch is that the dye fixative needs to be used with hot water. http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1569-AA.shtml Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 22:47:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10694 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:47:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F2W3E21307; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F2W2425750; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21305.mail.yahoo.com (web21305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.141]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6F2S6424954 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020715022805.51551.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:28:05 PDT From: kj green Subject: Re: [h-cost] Running dye question To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1695768816-1026700085=:51157" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --0-1695768816-1026700085=:51157 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Would the new Shout color catcher sheets help? One of our local TV stations has a "Let Joe Try It" segment where Joe gets to try new products/informercial products to see if they actually work as well as they're claimed. For the Color Catcher sheets, he put a freshly dyed garment in the laundry with a light colored tee shirt as well as one of the color catcher sheets and it captured the excess color from the dyed garment--the tee shirt came out absolutely spotless.It just removes excess dye particles that are in the water, it won't take the dye out of garments that have already been dyed/stained. Maybe this would help you keep the dye from further coloring your linen. kate Robin Netherton wrote: This isn't quite a historic issue, but it's a fabric issue, and this list probably contains the expertise to help! I bought some printed linen: black background, splashy white flowers. After I bought it, I realized it had tiny bit of lycra in it, too -- one of those new "stretch linen" fabrics. (Why do they keep ruining perfectly good linens and wools by adding lycra?) I decided the stretch wouldn't be a problem for this particular (non-historic) project, but I also realized I'd better avoid the higher heat settings for washing/drying/ironing I'd usually use with linen. So I washed it on warm, dried it delicate. And the black dye bled all over the white flowers. The result was a batik-like grey streaking across the entire print. Oddly, I like it better this way! The original design was a bit too stark for my taste, and I almost didn't buy it for that reason. So now I have a print with a really nice irregular grey pattern behind the white areas. My question: How do I keep it this way? Should I expect that the dye will continue to run on further washings, or will it stay put? Should I just dry-clean the finished garment? I don't want to run it through the wash with a dye magnet, because I want to keep the streaking that's already there. --Robin --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes --0-1695768816-1026700085=:51157 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Would the new Shout color catcher sheets help?

One of our local TV stations has a "Let Joe Try It" segment where Joe gets to try new products/informercial products to see if they actually work as well as they're claimed.

For the Color Catcher sheets, he put a freshly dyed garment in the laundry with a light colored tee shirt as well as one of the color catcher sheets and it captured the excess color from the dyed garment--the tee shirt came out absolutely spotless.It just removes excess dye particles that are  in the water, it won't take the dye out of garments that have already been dyed/stained.

Maybe this would help you keep the dye from further coloring your linen.

kate

  Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net> wrote:


This isn't quite a historic issue, but it's a fabric issue, and this list
probably contains the expertise to help!

I bought some printed linen: black background, splashy white flowers.
After I bought it, I realized it had tiny bit of lycra in it, too -- one
of those new "stretch linen" fabrics. (Why do they keep ruining perfectly
good linens and wools by adding lycra?) I decided the stretch wouldn't be
a problem for this particular (non-historic) project, but I also realized
I'd better avoid the higher heat settings for washing/drying/ironing I'd
usually use with linen.

So I washed it on warm, dried it delicate. And the black dye bled all over
the white flowers. The result was a batik-like grey streaking across the
entire print. Oddly, I like it better this way! The original design was a
bit too stark for my taste, and I almost didn't buy it! for that reason.

So now I have a print with a really nice irregular grey pattern behind the
white areas. My question: How do I keep it this way? Should I expect that
the dye will continue to run on further washings, or will it stay put?
Should I just dry-clean the finished garment? I don't want to run it
through the wash with a dye magnet, because I want to keep the streaking
that's already there.

--Robin


Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes --0-1695768816-1026700085=:51157-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 14 23:47:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11236 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:47:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F3W7E24056; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:32:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F3W2410109; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F3UJ409647 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:30:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m180.in-tch.com [216.166.191.180]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6F3GMP13116 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D324314.1308F2B1@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:35:48 -0600 Status: RO Ohhhhh.....gawdd.....You *would* have to post something like that....oh, man, oh man, oh man.....I think you've *killed* my credit card.... See, here's the scoop....A friend and I (who both do historical clothing, and, oddly enough, both know Robin) will be in Bath for several days in eary September. We already have shopping and the Roman baths on the list (along with the Costume Museum, and the Assembly Rooms). We live in a part of the U.S. where we get decent snowy winters, and *no d@mned wool fabric*!!!!, so finding something yummy while we're in England would just be a superlative coup! --Sue, who would be doing a decent "happy dance" if she weren't so blessed *hot* [day 4? 5? of record-breaking temperatures, and *NO* a/c or swamp cooler ;-( ] randl wrote: > > My husband and I were fortunate in that we were able to honeymoon in London > 'lo those many (5:) years ago. We took the 'rail out to Bath as a daytrip > and discovered a rather hole-in-the-wall fabric shop. I took pictures to > show a friend that owns/runs a similar styled store locally. If the store in > question is still around, I highly recommend it as they carried a fair > selection of silk, linen and wool. I don't recall the name of it, but Bath > isn't terribly large. I do recall that it wasn't far from the roman baths. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 00:41:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11541 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:41:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F4Q4E26221; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F4Q2423581; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F4Ll422586 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:21:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2040.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.40]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30251 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:21:43 -0400 Message-ID: <3D324C5D.5F7FE275@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? References: <20020712074634.17536.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:15:25 -0400 Status: RO Hi. Another note for the hubby interested in WWII. When I was in Aachen, so many years ago, I remember still seeing buildings on the outskirts of town that were abandoned since the terrible battle that occurred in town in 1945. I was amazed that, some 35 or so years later, there were still houses all shot up. I'm sure (or at least mostly so) that they have been fixed up since, but, who knows? I know in one of the in-town cemeteries, within walking distance of the train station and the Kaffeestuben that Nicole mentions, there are graves of both the German and American troops killed back then. I still have the photos that I shot (I was an exchange student in England at the time studying theater in London, and I made a side trip to complete a photo assignment I had). Mike T. > Oh yes, oh yes! Go and see Aachen! See Charlemagne's magnificent cathedral, go > and have a fantastic coffee and warm apple strudel with vanilla ice and cream > in the Alt Aachener Kaffeestuben right to the left of the medieval town hall in > the town square. And please, plaese, give a greeting to Aachen from an > expatriat who loved Aachen very much for the 12 years of living there. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 01:11:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11738 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:11:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F4u2E27412; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F4u1400332; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F4pw429218 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2040.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.40]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01750 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:51:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3D32536D.397E0371@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <3D2C9456.19.158B6CB8@localhost> <3D2D82C5.314EDF5B@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Allergies vs Reactions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:45:33 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. Something someone just said rung a bell in my head (or perhaps it was just me getting kicked too many times there...), but I remembered something my old Doctor said to me. He was an old-fashioned sort (Bless his soul, he passed on this year), but when I first went to his practice, I had my patter all in order. He asked me if I had any allergies, and I dutifully replied, as I had been taught by my Mother, "Penicillin and Compozine". Rather than just write these down (dutifully), he asked my why I thought I had those allergies. The first was inherited, I told him, and the second came from an episode when I was 18, when my appendix burst. He then asked if I had ever been tested for these "allergies". I said "no", and he told me that what I thought I had in the first case was unproven, and in the second was a reaction, not an allergy. He asked if I wished to be tested for the above. I haven't since, but I thought I'd mention it. If you think you have an "allergy" to a particular thing, and it is making you make lifestyle changes that are difficult, you might want to look into it to see if you can be tested. This might lead you into an area through which you can work out where your problems are, and help you to expand those areas where you might have thought you could never go. If you find that you have real allergies, I'm sorry, but if you can find a way around them, all the better. Good Luck, Mike T. PS Please don't respond to this by becoming defensive. It isn't an attack, but a means of possibly helping folks, and was meant in that way. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 02:01:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA12226 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:01:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F5j7E29349; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F5j5411041; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f24.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.24]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F5f6410211 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:41:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:41:01 -0700 Received: from 68.6.212.114 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:41:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.6.212.114] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2002 05:41:01.0370 (UTC) FILETIME=[33DF09A0:01C22BC2] Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:41:00 +0000 Status: RO Kendra, Thank you so much for sharing the link to the Kyoto Costume Institute. It was so much fun drooling over all the pictures of the garments. I wish I could wear them all... I know this is completely stating the obvious, but I was really struck by how much the woman's silhouette has changed over time. I know that in the 20th century, the styles that women have worn have changed dramatically. Every decade has a characteristic silhouette and style that was popular at that time. For some reason, I just assumed that such a variety of styles had been the product of a time where the media has been such an influence. We can see the most recent styles and fashions by picking up a nationally or worldwide distributed magazine. We can know that white prairie style skirts are in fashion right now, because Penelope Cruz is seen wearing one on TV or the Internet... I also thought that ready-made clothes had contributed to the variety of styles in recent decades. We can just go to the store and find a similar version of what the fashion icons are creating. Anyway, I know that styles have changed dramatically over the last 300 years, but I was just really struck by just how dramatically. For instance - 1790 to 1800 was not a very long time. However, the basic shape of the silhouette changes considerably. The full skirts and bodiced natural waist gave way to more relaxed skirts and the empire style waistline. I think this is a huge change for a time when the media was completely different as an influence in the styles that women wore. I am very tired, so I'm sure when I look at this again tomorrow, I'll be thinking that it really isn't that remarkable... but then again it really makes me think about how styles came to be. Who were the influences in making those characteristic changes and who were the people who embraced these new fashions? Also, how did a dramatic style change spread from town to town and country to country? I think it is all very interesting... Some ramblings (or obvious statements/observations)... :) jessica >From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: >Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:27:14 -0700 >Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute (WAS: Intro and Revolution In >Fashion book) >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > >I'm assuming everyone found the Kyoto Costume Institute's digital >collections, but in case you didn't, they have some great photos of >costumes >from their collection at: > >http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html > >- Kendra _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 02:05:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14431 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:05:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F5o6E29502; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:50:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F5o5412083; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f306.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.181]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F5mV411767 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:48:23 -0700 Received: from 68.6.212.114 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:48:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.6.212.114] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2002 05:48:23.0811 (UTC) FILETIME=[3B962D30:01C22BC3] Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1046 - 12 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:48:23 +0000 Status: RO Welcom Back Apollonia. I just had to comment on your tag line... It's very nice to see someone who has recongnized the fantastic genious of the Black Adder! He is one of the Greats!!! Again, welcome. :) jessica >Edmund: > It's green. >Percy: > Yes, my lord! >Edmund: > Percy, the colour of gold, is gold. Whatever you have discovered if >it >has a name would be called green. >Percy: [on discovering the secret of alchemy] > Oh Edmund can it be true, that I hold in my mortal hands a nugget of >purest GREEN? > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 02:20:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22983 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F656E00200; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F655415160; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F61Q414324 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:01:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id XAA05386 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:21:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207150621.XAA05386@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Dye fixative Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO D'Oh. The dye fixative is used in a cool bath. Synthropol and Milsoft are used in hot soaks. I'm on my third round of vat dyeing this weekend, so I'm getting a little addled. Fire Red this time. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 02:54:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA09781 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:54:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F6d3E01334; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F6d2422307; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F6Yu421440 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:34:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-95.gti.net [208.216.115.95]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 5274F35540 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D326D10.1C2EABB1@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute (WAS: Intro and Revolution In Fashion book) References: <000301c22b9d$80e5d140$6601a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:34:56 -0400 Status: RO The web site is excellent, but there is still a lot more info in the "Revolution" book...I am tempted to order some of the other books &/or videos offered in the catalog... Has anyone seen the videos? Are they all in Japanese? Are the other books in Japanese/English like "Revolution"? Deb R _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 03:39:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21680 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F7O3E02930; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F7O2402202; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6F7N3401918 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020715072302.61570.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:23:02 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D324C5D.5F7FE275@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:23:02 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- leigh tartaglio wrote: > Hi. Another note for the hubby interested in WWII. When I was in Aachen, so > many > years ago, I remember still seeing buildings on the outskirts of town that > were > abandoned since the terrible battle that occurred in town in 1945. I was There hasn't been anything like that for the past 14-15 years I was living there. Moved to Aachen in '88. > amazed > that, some 35 or so years later, there were still houses all shot up. I'm A memento. > sure (or > at least mostly so) that they have been fixed up since, but, who knows? I _I_ know, because I come from there. There is absolutely nothing of that sort there. Aachen is a beautiful city. > know in > one of the in-town cemeteries, within walking distance of the train station > and the > Kaffeestuben that Nicole mentions, there are graves of both the German and > American > troops killed back then. They are still finding renmains of American soldiers lost in the Huertgenforest and never accounted for. There are Germans who have taken over the task of trawling through the woods with metal detectors and dogs in their very own spare time, finding bits and pieces, then calling the US authorities in who then dig around. By now they have already helped find the mortal remains of over a dozen soldiers, that could then finally laid to rest back home and mourned properly by their families. There is nothing worse than not having a grave. I know, because there are so many Germans never accounted for in Siberia. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 03:49:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10116 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F7Y4E03267; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F7Y2404227; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6F7Ui403487 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:30:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020715073043.74926.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:30:43 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D324314.1308F2B1@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:30:43 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Ohhhhh.....gawdd.....You *would* have to post something like that....oh, > man, oh man, oh man.....I think you've *killed* my credit card.... > See, here's the scoop....A friend and I (who both do historical > clothing, and, oddly enough, both know Robin) will be in Bath for > several days in eary September. Sue, why don't you just cal up Hainsworth and have their fantastic wool delivered to somewhere to pick it up while you're in England? http://www.hainsworth.co.uk/abimelech/index1.html Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 04:28:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22682 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:28:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F8D5E04846; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F8D4412979; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F894412043 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24030.; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:09:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:08:57 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6F894412043 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:08:55 +0100 Status: RO According to my Swedish dictionary: F"orstygn = running stitch Efterstygn = back stitch Smygs"om isn't listed as such, but possibly = slip stitch? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 04:33:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22734 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:33:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F8I3E05014; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F8I2414079; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F8Fm413503 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24351.; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:16:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:15:42 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: My novel! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6F8Fm413503 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:15:08 +0100 Status: RO Congratulations, MaggiRos! What is the setting for your novel? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> maggiros@hotmail.com 07/13/02 11:07pm >>> I know this is off-topic, but I just have to share this with you all! I just got off the phone with a small publisher I happen to know, and well, they want to publish my first novel! Complete details of covers, design, pub date and all that are still pending, but wheeeeeee!!! I'm SO excited, I can't stand it!!! Doing the Happy Dance in L.A. Wheeeeeee! MaggiRos Obligatory costume content: Everyone in the novel wears 17th century clothes, many of which are taken directly from pictures posted on Nicole Kipar's website. :) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 04:54:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22910 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:54:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F8c6E05709; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F8c4418745; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F8Yn418060 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:34:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA25369.; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:35:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:34:43 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Home sewing UK/US, was [h-cost] Re: different velvets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6F8Yn418060 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:34:22 +0100 Status: RO I don't know how much sewing is taught in British schools today. We had needlework classes when I was at a girls' school in the 60s, but the teacher tended to neglect me because I wasn't much good at it! Neither was my Mum; for what little dressmaking we did, she made do with her mother-in-law's old hand-operated Singer (which I still have). I have the impression that fewer women do home dressmaking now than in my childhood. There used to be a specialist fabric shop in Derby; there are now only market stalls selling dress fabrics. There's such a huge choice of cheap fashionable clothes available that I suppose people only sew if they really want to. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 05:17:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23057 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:17:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F92aE06624; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F92X424126; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F8wF423098 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arweb02la (unverified [10.1.201.102]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:54:24 -0700 thread-index: AcIr3TfyP6EBkAwGRJuYLXaQckQnKg== Thread-Topic: Fabric shops in the UK From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Message-ID: <001401c22bdd$37f20590$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C22BA2.8B932D90" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric shops in the UK Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:54:24 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C22BA2.8B932D90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's getting more and more difficult to find decent stuff in general shopping areas. I'm extremely lucky, as about a mile from where I live there is a fabulous fabric shop "The Shuttle". If any of you are ever in the Bradford, West Yorkshire, area, ask me where it is. (It's even worth a special trip) It has seasonal fabrics, furnishing, cottons, linens, silks, some very good sales, and the owner will get stuff in for you if you ask. We also have various Indian/SE Asian fabric shops all over Bradford, but again, they sell mostly polyesters and synthetics. Unfortunately the Asian population in Bradford is not such to encourage luxury fabric for saris and shalwar-kameez. Freyalyn, who doesn't have enough time in the day. _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C22BA2.8B932D90 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's getting more and more difficult to find decent stuff in general shopping areas.

I'm extremely lucky, as about a mile from where I live there is a fabulous fabric shop "The Shuttle". If any
of you are ever in the Bradford, West Yorkshire, area, ask me where it is. (It's even worth a special trip) It has seasonal fabrics, furnishing,
cottons, linens, silks, some very good sales, and the owner will get stuff in for you if you ask.

We also have various Indian/SE Asian fabric shops all over Bradford, but again, they sell mostly polyesters and
synthetics. Unfortunately the Asian population in Bradford is not such to encourage luxury fabric for saris and shalwar-kameez.

Freyalyn, who doesn't have enough time in the day.
_______________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C22BA2.8B932D90-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 05:22:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23083 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:22:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F973E06758; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F972425020; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F96W424916 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:06:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-98-148.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.98.148]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIG16024; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:06:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <006201c22bdf$8babf900$94624ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: Home sewing UK/US, was [h-cost] Re: different velvets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:11:02 +0100 Status: RO >I don't know how much sewing is taught in British schools today Next to nothing & none of the basic skills from what my kids have done !! We were taught from an early age in school, but it was a very old fashioned school & some time ago :) Looking at patterns they are so simple these days they are barely worth buying, so the average sewer musty be pretty poor Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 05:43:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23211 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:43:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F9S5E07349; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F9S4427600; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6F9P0426683 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020715092500.16078.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:25:00 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric shops in the UK To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001401c22bdd$37f20590$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:25:00 +0100 (BST) Status: RO There is a superb silk shop in Guildford, Surrey. It is Hansson Silks. Indian run, beautiful silk taffetas, all for 14 quid per mter, gorgeous silk embrideries, and brocades. he people are very helpful. They have a web site and do mail order, send them a colour sample, tell them what you want and off you go. http://www.hansson-silks.co.uk/ Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 06:08:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23352 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:08:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6F9rAE07992; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F9r6403189; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6F9mW402209 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:48:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p205-nas2.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.211.205] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17U2Sw-00036A-00; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:48:27 +1200 Message-ID: <002901c22be4$c63512a0$cdd3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:48:28 +1200 Status: RO Does anybody have the original Swedish, I have a swedish friend and if it's not too long I'm sure shed be happy to translate it. As it's a favour I'd be asking, and not one that directly benefits me I'd rather not ask too much of her as she just sent me a postcard from London (she's on holiday). Maybe she can help translate it in context.. you know how different languages have diffrerent rhythems and patterns. michaela > According to my Swedish dictionary: > > F"orstygn = running stitch > Efterstygn = back stitch > > Smygs"om isn't listed as such, but possibly = slip stitch? > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 06:38:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23528 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:38:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FAN4E08891; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FAN3409844; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40019.mail.yahoo.com (web40019.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.59]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6FAM4409631 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020715102158.70572.qmail@web40019.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40019.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:21:58 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: europe16thc , H-costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Curing Rabbit Pelts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:21:58 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Can anyone help? As the other half seems to enjoy thinning out the local rabbit population and bringing them home for us to eat. I decided it might be worth doing something with all the furs, that otherwise would go in the bin. Does anyone have any idea how furs were cured in 16th Century England. I have heard of using alum or alum and saltpeter but I have no idea if these were used then and what quantities would be required. Many Thanks Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 07:13:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23875 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:13:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FAw6E10211; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FAw4417333; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FAuU417006 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 3088 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2002 10:56:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.195.81]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 15 Jul 2002 10:56:29 -0000 Message-ID: <002f01c22bee$193af420$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <006201c22bdf$8babf900$94624ed5@melaniew> Subject: Re: Home sewing UK/US, was [h-cost] Re: different velvets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:55:14 -0400 Status: RO > Looking at patterns they are so simple these days they are barely worth > buying, so the average sewer musty be pretty poor > > Mel I felt sad when I discovered a line of patterns called something like "Sewing for Dummies" in JoAnn's. Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 07:13:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23881 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:13:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FAwQE10234; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FAwP417417; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FAud417041 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:56:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.52.227.179] ([24.52.227.179]) by smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 smtprelay6 Dec 7 2001 09:58:59) with ESMTP id GZAEE902.H60 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:56:33 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1046 - 12 msgs From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:56:33 -0400 Status: RO on 7/15/02 1:48 AM, jessica stier at jessicastier@hotmail.com wrote: > > Welcom Back Apollonia. > > I just had to comment on your tag line... It's very nice to see someone who > has recongnized the fantastic genious of the Black Adder! He is one of the > Greats!!! > > Again, welcome. > > :) jessica > > >> Edmund: >> It's green. >> Percy: >> Yes, my lord! >> Edmund: >> Percy, the colour of gold, is gold. Whatever you have discovered if >> it >> has a name would be called green. >> Percy: [on discovering the secret of alchemy] >> Oh Edmund can it be true, that I hold in my mortal hands a nugget of >> purest GREEN? >> my fave: edmond: "You do know what irony is, don't you Baldric?" baldric: "Yeah...its like goldy and bronzy." edmond harassing percy about his ruff size was great too. laurie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 07:19:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23924 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:19:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FB34E10572; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FB33418629; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.53]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FAxC417672 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:59:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.52.227.179] ([24.52.227.179]) by smtprelay9.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GZAEII03.14J for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:59:06 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3D324314.1308F2B1@in-tch.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:59:07 -0400 Status: RO on 7/14/02 11:35 PM, Sue Clemenger at mooncat@in-tch.com wrote: > Ohhhhh.....gawdd.....You *would* have to post something like that....oh, > man, oh man, oh man.....I think you've *killed* my credit card.... > See, here's the scoop....A friend and I (who both do historical > clothing, and, oddly enough, both know Robin) will be in Bath for > several days in eary September. We already have shopping and the Roman > baths on the list (along with the Costume Museum, and the Assembly > Rooms). We live in a part of the U.S. where we get decent snowy > winters, and *no d@mned wool fabric*!!!!, so finding something yummy > while we're in England would just be a superlative coup! > --Sue, who would be doing a decent "happy dance" if she weren't so > blessed *hot* [day 4? 5? of record-breaking temperatures, and *NO* a/c > or swamp cooler ;-( ] > sorry:) laurie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 07:31:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24029 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:31:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FBF6E10927; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FBF5421309; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FBE4421086 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id EAA18325 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:33:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207151133.EAA18325@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] dye experiment Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 04:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Okay, so I finally finished totally with my batch of red dyeing. I used Dharma's procion MX dye #10, Fire Red. I used the dye fixative as the last rinse, then a hot wash with Milsoft to restore the fabric's hand. The final result is a vibrant true red (no orange tones). On both cotton gauze and cotton-lycra knit, the shade is remarkably similar to the traditional red flannel you can still buy. Not an exact match, but very, very close. This red appears to be colorfast if you use enough soda ash and salt in the dye vat and if you use the fixative with your last rinse (after the excess dye and soda are rinsed out). I'm impressed for a red this bright. My previous experiment used procion MX #250 Jet Black, the densest of the four blacks Dharma offers. It _is_ possible to get a true black out of this dye, however it has a reddish-brown cast to it. Next time around, I'll probably add some #70 Sapphire Blue to the mix to correct that. Jet Black tends to wash out quite a bit, which is why the Dharma folks suggested using the dye fixative. My first attempt didn't stay in the dye bath nearly long enough, and I probably had the pot too crowded as well. I got a dark charcoal shade from it, which is still darker than I ever got out of black RIT dye. The second try stayed in the dye bath 4 hours, and it's a true black. After two cycles through the hot wash (after the fixative), the dye no longer runs. The procion dye is also definitely less toxic than the black Dylon I've used _once_. That stuff made my whole house smell like tar. On the whole, the procion dyes have been much less noxious than either Dylon or Deka-L. Next experiment: #56 Azure Blue. Dharma staff warns that their bright blues need higher temperatures (good thing I do this on the stovetop). Some of the other blues also need glauber's salt, but this one does not. I've been told to expect a lot of bleeding until the last of the excess dye rinses out (even more than the Jet Black). I think I'll be using the dye fixative on this one as well. All in all, I find the procion dyes to be pretty easy to use, if you're willing to do it on the stovetop. My washing machine...er, well, it sucks _and_ it wastes a lot of water and electricity. I've never had good results with _any_ dye in that machine. While the procion dyes are slightly more complicated than the acid dyes I use for silks, it's not _too_ much moreso, and the dye isn't particularly nasty smelling or toxic. I still keep the stove hood fan on just to keep the fumes from going all over the house, but it's not _vile_ like some of the union dyes I've tried. It can safely be used in the house. [toddling off to bed now...] Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 07:55:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24369 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:55:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FBe5E11901; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FBe3426851; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FBdN426714 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6FBdLj05919 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:39:21 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? In-Reply-To: <002901c22be4$c63512a0$cdd3adcb@michaela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:39:21 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, michaela wrote: > Does anybody have the original Swedish Yup! :) "Alla sömmar, utom de där stadkant ligger mot stadkant, är sydda med dubbla sömmar. Tygstyckerna har först satts ihop, sedan har bĺda sömsmĺnerna vikts ĺt samma hĺll och sytts ned mot tyget. Fĺllarna längs nederkant, ärmlinningar och halsrigning är sydda med enkel vikning. Vilken typ av stygn som använts till de olika sömmarna är svĺrt att bedömma pĺ grund av det stora antalet stygnmärken i tyget. Möjligen har sömmarna sytts ihop med för- eller efterstygn och sedan har sömsmĺnerna sytts ned mot tyget med förstygn eller kastestygn. Vid ĺtermonteringen syddes alla sömmar med smygsöm og sömsmĺnerna kastades fast ĺt det hĺll de strävade. Fĺllerna gick til skillnad mot sömmarna att sy i de ursprungliga stygnhĺlen. De har sannolikt varit sydda med kaststygn, vilket ocksĺ gjordes vid ĺtermonteringen." Translation of the word "smygsöm" is basically the only thing left that I'm wondering about; even though I'm still not entirely certain that I understand how the seam allowances are fastened. But I _think_ I understand how. If your friend has input on that as well that would be great. But it it's a lot of trouble for her to translate, please don't bother her. :) Thanks for the help so far, people! :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 08:00:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24422 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:00:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FBj6E12075; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FBj4427841; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from david.io.com (root@david.io.com [199.170.88.28]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FBgk427371 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 5qurt (aus-as2-090.io.com [199.170.89.90]) by david.io.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6FBgjJ07434 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:42:46 -0500 From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Curing Rabbit Pelts Message-ID: <003801c22bf4$a7b5f690$5a59aac7@5qurt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <20020715102158.70572.qmail@web40019.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:42:08 -0500 Status: RO Don't know the time frame, but it seems old to me. Pelts can be cured by rubbing the skin side with lard or shortening, sprinkling them with flour, rolling them fur side out, tying them with twine and storing them for a period of time. You need to experiment as to what that period of time is, but if I remember correctly, it's about 3-4 weeks. I had good luck with curing deer hides, but usually lost them to the coyotes. They are persistent little critters and could break into any shed I tried to keep them out of. Check out the Foxfire books. Amanda GRITS Rule Girls Raised In The South -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rachel Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:22 AM To: europe16thc; H-costume list Subject: [h-cost] Curing Rabbit Pelts Can anyone help? As the other half seems to enjoy thinning out the local rabbit population and bringing them home for us to eat. I decided it might be worth doing something with all the furs, that otherwise would go in the bin. Does anyone have any idea how furs were cured in 16th Century England. I have heard of using alum or alum and saltpeter but I have no idea if these were used then and what quantities would be required. Many Thanks Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 09:24:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25617 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:24:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FD9JE15282; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FD9A418737; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f270.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.145]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FD5p417776 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:05:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:05:45 -0700 Received: from 63.12.14.79 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:05:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.14.79] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: different velvets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2002 13:05:45.0806 (UTC) FILETIME=[5508D6E0:01C22C00] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:35:45 +0930 Status: RO
Hi
A cousin of mine has a commemorative book of Queen Elizabeth II's coronation, and in it is a bit about the weavers of woolen velvet used in the robes of the English nobles, and apparantly has been used for several 100 years. He also owns a robe/cloak worn by one of the baroness' (I think), pictured in the book. But I'm yet to see it.
My cousin is an antique dealer.
Rebecca
 
>I'm sure I've heard of wool velvet, for the 18th c. at least.  Am told one
>can find wool velvet used for theatre seats and curtains.
>
>Cheers,
>Mara
>

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 10:01:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25913 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:01:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FDkWE17895; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FDkS400709; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6FDjV400391 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Mon Jul 15 08:44:54 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:44:53 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6FDjV400391 Subject: [h-cost] Wal-mart pre-cuts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:44:44 -0500 Status: RO I'm happy to hear there was such an uproar over the pre-cuts. I haven't been back to this particular store in my area, despite it's being one of the really big Wal-marts, because of the pre-cuts. I guess I will have to give them a try. I did find a nice period looking 'wool' at another store this weekend. It has burn tested with at least some poly but at $1 a yard it looks period enough for some folks I know that want to try Viking. Silk; one of the best, and most fun, places I found for silk shopping was in the Indian sari shops in Vancouver, British Columbia. The owners were very helpful to two chicks who obviously didn't 'belong' and we found some real treasures buried on the shelves. It was also fun to drool over the tunics and trousers displayed for sale. They assured me they could make something to fit me but I declined :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 11:07:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26422 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:07:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FEpGE23565; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:51:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FEpEN27175; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FEnWN26309 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:49:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from att.net ([12.77.178.30]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020715144926.XSIQ6994.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:49:26 +0000 Message-ID: <3D32E25A.D529F543@att.net> From: Crissy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] English fabric shops Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:55:22 -0400 Status: RO > > We took the 'rail out to Bath as a daytrip > and discovered a rather hole-in-the-wall fabric shop. I don't recall > the name of it, but Bath > isn't terribly large. I do recall that it wasn't far from the roman baths. Oooh! I'm actually in the planning stage of a trip to England next May and, if anyone can give me specifics as to where this shop is, I'd appreciate it! Time is going to be very limited, so the less hunting I can do to find a location, the better. I'm also going to have a day or so free in London on this trip. It seems that I'm the local person who all my friends go to for advice on fabrics and where to find the hard to find stuff. They're already asking about the fabric shopping in London! It doesn't seem to matter that I've never been there before... What we're specifically looking for is a place that sells good quality English Wools, in tropical weights. We're all from Florida that are going on this trip, so lightweight wool is the goal! We do SCA reenactment, different countries and eras of specialties. My era is Italian, 1450-1525, although we do have a few people that specialize in England and france around the same time frame on this trip. Also, Middle Eastern, too. (Yes I know we are a very mixed group!) Any advice on those Sari shops, needlework shops ( Bjarne-- what was the address and name of that one on Oxford street?) , places that sell steel boning, and are any of these places open at night or do they all close at five pm ? Any "off the wall" places I really need to visit because it's not period for anything we do but it's such cool fabrics anyway? I've costumed people ranging from Brides to exotic dancers and just about every time frame except futuristic/fantasy, and that seems to be looming on the horizon as we speak! Any advice y'all can give this fabric junkie to arrange a once in a lifetime London halfday fabric tour would be greatly appreciated! ( the other half of the day is going to be spent at the V& A Museum. I've always wanted to go there and I *know* a half day is not enough time.....) Thanks for the help and advice and locations! Crissy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 11:16:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26532 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:16:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FF1IE25254; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FF1HN02998; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:01:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21308.mail.yahoo.com (web21308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.174]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6FF0fN02683 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:00:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020715150040.49827.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:00:40 PDT From: kj green To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2001008047-1026745240=:49584" Subject: [h-cost] Very OT, but important if you're a Yahoo user Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --0-2001008047-1026745240=:49584 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you use Yahoo, did you ever notice that your email doesn't always say what you wrote? Read on... BTW--I did try it and the words *are* changed. Since this is going out through my yahoo account, I put astericks in place of a vowel in each word that Yahoo changes. Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:03:19 -0400 > To: Declan McCullagh > From: Monty Solomon > Subject: Do y*u Y*h**? > > http://www.ntk.net/2002/07/12/ > > >> HARD NEWS << > > in powers of two > > Nice to see, in the midst of all these scandals, Yahoo > turning a healthy profit. But as other companies fiddle the > figures, Yahoo's been busy instead with fiddling its own > users' private correspondence. In a fantastically clumsy > attempt to prevent cross-site scripting attacks, the free > e-mail wing of the sprawling giant has long been replacing > complete English words in the text of HTML mail sent to its > users. Mention "m*cha" in an HTML mail to a friend with a > @yahoo.com account, and your choice in coffee will be > silently switched to "espresso". Talk about "free > expressi*n", and your recipient will think you said "free > statement". Here's the full list of swaperoos: > http://www.ntk.net/2002/07/12/yahoo.txt > - try not to mail it to your friends > > This fiddling has been going on now for over a year year > (the ever vigilant RISKS digest noted it back in March > 2001). But because of Yahoo's underhand methods, very few > people have spotted the turnabout - certainly far fewer than > if Yahoo had done the sensible thing and, say, "**"'ed out > the vowels in the word, or, God forbid, written a smarter > parser. But the sneakier you are, the wider the damage > spreads. The word "medi*val" (since it contains the > javascript command "eval") is converted in Yahoo mail to > "medireview". Google now shows over 640 sites (and 1,150 > separate instances) of the word "medireview" being used as a > synonym for medieval. University papers, bibliographies and > book reviews, Indian newspaper columnists, and endless > enthusiast sites drop it unseen into texts. People have > begun to ask where it originally came from, and does it have > a subtler meaning beyond "medieval"? Is Yahoo ever going to > fix its filters? Or is it time we pushed to get the first > regexp-obfuscated word into the Oxford English Dictionary? > http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/21.34.html > - does anyone still at Yahoo even know how to turn it off? > http://www.google.com/search?q=medireview > - NTK now entirely filled with google links > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ > Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes --0-2001008047-1026745240=:49584 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

 If you use Yahoo, did you ever notice that your email doesn't always say what you wrote? Read on...

BTW--I did try it and the words *are* changed. Since this is going out through my yahoo account, I put astericks in place of a vowel in each word that Yahoo changes.

Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:03:19 -0400
> To: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
> From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
> Subject: Do y*u Y*h**?
>
> http://www.ntk.net/2002/07/12/
>
>                                   >> HARD NEWS <<
>
>                                  in powers of two
>
>            Nice to see, in the midst of all these scandals, Yahoo
>      &! nbsp;     turning a healthy profit. But as other companies fiddle the
>            figures, Yahoo's been busy instead with fiddling its own
>            users' private correspondence. In a fantastically clumsy
>            attempt to prevent cross-site scripting attacks, the free
>            e-mail wing of the sprawling giant has long been replacing
>            complete English words in the text of HTML mail sent to its
>            users. Mention "m*cha" in an HTML mail to a friend with a
>            @yahoo.com account, and your choice in coffee will be
>  ! ;          silen! tly switched to "espresso". Talk about "free
>            expressi*n", and your recipient will think you said "free
>            statement". Here's the full list of swaperoos:
>            http://www.ntk.net/2002/07/12/yahoo.txt
>                                    - try not to mail it to your friends
>
>            This fiddling has been going on now for over a year year
>            (the ever vigilant RISKS digest noted it back in March
>    &nb! sp;       2001). But because of Yahoo's underhand methods, very few
>            people have spotted the turnabout - certainly far fewer than
>            if Yahoo had done the sensible thing and, say, "**"'ed out
>            the vowels in the word, or, God forbid, written a smarter
>            parser. But the sneakier you are, the wider the damage
>            spreads. The word "medi*val" (since it contains the
>            javascript command "eval") is converted in Yahoo mail to
>            "medireview". Google now shows over 640 sites (and 1,150
> &! nbsp;          s! eparate instances) of the word "medireview" being used as a
>            synonym for medieval. University papers, bibliographies and
>            book reviews, Indian newspaper columnists, and endless
>            enthusiast sites drop it unseen into texts. People have
>            begun to ask where it originally came from, and does it have
>            a subtler meaning beyond "medieval"? Is Yahoo ever going to
>            fix its filters? Or is it time we pushed to get the first
>            regexp-obfuscated word into the Oxford English Dictionary?
>      ! ;      http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/21.34.html
>              - does anyone still at Yahoo even know how to turn it off?
>            http://www.google.com/search?q=medireview
>                             - NTK now entirely filled with google links
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list
> You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice.
> To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subs! cribe.html
> This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/
> Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------


Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes --0-2001008047-1026745240=:49584-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 11:21:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26577 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:21:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FF6gE25825; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:06:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FF6fN05772; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f190.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.190]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FF5aN05168 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:05:30 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:05:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute (WAS: Intro and Revolution In Fashion book) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2002 15:05:30.0753 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F98BF10:01C22C11] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:05:30 +0000 Status: RO Hm yes, it's really fun to browse... But I really wish they would answer me about buying the book... Maybe they're on vacation??? >From: "Kendra Van Cleave" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute (WAS: Intro and Revolution In >Fashion book) >Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:27:14 -0700 > >I'm assuming everyone found the Kyoto Costume Institute's digital >collections, but in case you didn't, they have some great photos of >costumes >from their collection at: > >http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html > >- Kendra > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 11:26:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26653 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:26:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FFBKE26359; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:11:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FFBJN08458; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailjayb.creighton.edu (root@MailjayB.creighton.edu [147.134.2.193]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FF8fN06884 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by mailjayb.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05882 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:08:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <003d01c22c11$9ca01c00$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:09:26 -0500 Status: RO The rather sudden move to a high-waisted, narrow-skirted gown in lighter fabrics in the 1785-1800 timeframe was truly revolutionary and a big shock to ladies' wardrobes. (I have this book, by the way!)Englishwomen followed a more bulky look in the skirt with some heavier fabrics and obviously more petticoats than the fashion leaders of France in the same time frame. This may have been a result of climate as well as culture for both countries. Marie Antoinette had made more casual, but still expensive, gowns of imported muslin(much to the rage of the silk-weaving trade in Lyons, France)and Englishwomen had first hand-painted or printed silks, and then hand-painted or printed cottons from British Empire colonies and trade connections in Asia and India all well before 1785.(I wish Dover would reprint some of the plates from the English "Gallery of Fashion" in their original colors to show the English style of the higher waist c1794-1804). It really shows that what we call the "empire look" was considered best on tall women with some weight to them. "Does my butt look big enough in this" (pear-shaped women rejoyced) might have been the query of the day from wives to husbands. The last high-waisted look had been in vogue 1620's-30's, but skirts had been full. Many women simply let down hems and raised the skirt to the new, higher level under the bust, keeping the extra material, as evidenced by some surviving gowns, within the dress. Clearly women thought the higher waist was a fad, a craze, for things "antique" and when all these revolutionaries came to their senses, fashion would revert to the "normal" waistline. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 13:40:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27703 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:40:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FHP4E13059; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FHP2N00894; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FHL6N28367 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZA00BW6W74VP@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:21:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wal-mart pre-cuts In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020715100253.00c478c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:15:47 -0700 Status: RO >I'm happy to hear there was such an uproar over the pre-cuts. I haven't >been back to this particular store in my area, despite it's being one of >the really big Wal-marts, because of the pre-cuts. I guess I will have to >give them a try. I routinely strike out at WalMart, in the fabric section. But I look every time I go to one for something else (last time it was for a new car battery). I did score big once only, and that was finding a couple of bundled remnants of windowpane muslin (batiste-thin cloth with a thicker thread every half inch both ways, making a grid). I'd read about it, and seen pictures of it, but I never saw it for sale anywhere, before or since. I'm not sure if I want to do a Regency day dress with it, or part of an Edwardian lingerie dress. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 13:40:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27707 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:40:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FHPbE13116; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FHPaN01235; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FHL7N28376 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZA00BW6W74VP@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:21:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute In-reply-to: <003d01c22c11$9ca01c00$55c98693@creighton.edu> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020715101959.00d25530@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:20:49 -0700 Status: RO >Clearly women thought the higher >waist was a fad, a craze, for things "antique" and when all these >revolutionaries came to their senses, fashion would revert to the "normal" >waistline. But it did - took about 25+ years to do it, but it did. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 14:04:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28050 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:04:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FHn2E15642; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FHn1N15499; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FHmmN15384 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:48:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.3c.2135384e (5708) for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m16.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.132]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.16) with ESMTP id MAILINID41-0715134832; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:48:32 -0400 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <1C2860A2.32988E1B.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Costume College Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:46:21 -0400 Status: RO Hi folks, I've been away for awhile but saw some emails about Costume College in Van Nuys. I'll be teaching a class on Sunday on making a Dickens Carolling Bonnet. If possible, perhaps the h-costume group there could get together for lunch. I'd love to join you! Please let me know. See you there! Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Hats for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 14:59:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28365 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:59:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FIi3E21802; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FIi1N18285; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FIhtN18218 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:43:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.41.26]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020715184349.FAWX6994.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:43:49 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020715113922.00a349b0@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute In-Reply-To: <200207151804.g6FI4PN24813@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:43:22 -0700 Status: RO Oh boy, I'm feeling really embarrassed now, because it seems no one has heard from the Kyoto Costume Institute about the book, even though I had no problems. :-( If it helps any, this is the address of the person who responded to me, and this is the email they responded with: From: "zK" To: Subject: Re: books from museum catalog Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:25:47 +0900 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Thank you for your mail. I could send you the catalogue by C.O.D.. It is the only way to send you it. When you order one catalogue, the estimation is about US$45.(including the delivery cost) Excuse me.The price you wrote in the mail is only in Japan. If you could accept this condition, please let me know your address and telephone number. Sincerely, Motofumi Suwa The Kyoto Costume Institute ----------------------------------------------------------------- Maybe you can try emailing this person directly. Maybe that'll help. Maybe they =are= on vacation.... Julie At 11:04 AM 7/15/2002, you wrote: >Message: 1 >From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute (WAS: Intro and Revolution >In Fashion book) >Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:05:30 +0000 >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > >Hm yes, it's really fun to browse... > >But I really wish they would answer me about buying the book... > >Maybe they're on vacation??? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 16:07:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28774 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:07:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FJqVE29892; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FJqUN29094; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FJpPN28431 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:51:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip59.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.59]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6FJpJq28733 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:51:19 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets Message-ID: <3D32C77F.8644.88E7FBC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:00:47 -0700 Status: RO > There are also lots of patchwork shops, and those selling fabric for > Asian traditional clothing, but neither of those are much good for > historic costuming, or even modern Western clothes. In the areas I've > been, all the Asian stores sell 100% polyester only. And often calling it "palace silk" making you think you're getting real silk. ;) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 16:07:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28773 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:07:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FJqSE29878; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:52:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FJqRN29057; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:52:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FJpLN28397 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip59.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.59]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6FJpGq28729 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:51:17 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices Message-ID: <3D32C77F.30696.88E7F71@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <173.b37621c.2a62df8e@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:00:47 -0700 Status: RO > My most expensive stuff (carefully folded in my grandmother's > old > trunk.... > > Not to be a wet blanket, but could you roll it instead of folding it? > Won't the creases be hard to get out? Rolling does not totally negate creasing. I found out the hard way (because I thought that rolling would not wrinkle things as much as folding) that sometimes rolling is even worse. The whole thing turned into one mass of wrinkles. Technique while rolling is also important. Putting layers of acid free paper as you roll and rolling more loosely as you roll and putting nothing on top helps. However, since many conservators still fold (but open it out, air it out, put the acid free paper back in and then fold it using a different folding pattern), folding is still an option. (You just have to do it right too.) Keeping your special fabrics and clothing items conserved is time consuming and can be expensive if done 100% right (special acid free constructed closets with special humidity and airflow characteristics, acid free containers, acid free papers around everything.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 16:08:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28781 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:08:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FJq4E29813; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FJq1N28793; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FJpJN28362 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:51:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip59.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.59]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6FJpEq28717 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:51:14 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Allergies vs Reactions Message-ID: <3D32C77F.12702.88E7F17@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3D32536D.397E0371@dandy.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:00:47 -0700 Status: RO > He asked me if I had > any allergies, and I dutifully replied, as I had been taught by my > Mother, "Penicillin and Compozine". Rather than just write these down > (dutifully), he asked my why I thought I had those allergies. The > first was inherited, I told him, and the second came from an episode > when I was 18, when my appendix burst. He then asked if I had ever > been tested for these "allergies". I said "no", and he told me that > what I thought I had in the first case was unproven, and in the second > was a reaction, not an allergy. He asked if I wished to be tested for > the above. One of the problems with allergies *is* the terminology and also is "folk lore". A common "folklore" is that if your parent is allergic to something, then you are probably allergic to it too. However, have an allergic parent just means that you have a higher chance of being allergic to *anything* (and not necessarily the same thing as your parent.) Having two parents with allergies raises the risk still more (basic genetics.) An example, my mother is allergic to penicillin, but I'm allergic, not in the least to penicillin, but to codeine, sulfa and a few other things. Lucky me. But at least I didn't have the penicillin allergy too. *What* you become allergic to is totally dependant upon your exposure. If you get sulfa at the wrong time, rather than penicillin, then it is sulfa you will become allergic to. And there is *no* predicting what you will become allergic to. You can have an allergy starting on your last day of the medication (as you have to have some exposure *before* your first dose to acquire the allergy) or the first day (if and only if you were previously exposed, such as while your mom was nursing you she was on antibiotics for a breast infection, you've had the med before without any known problems, or it was in small doses in something else like the meat you ate at some point, or in extremely rare cases in a vegetable that had some naturally occurring medication in it.) Then there is the "allergy" which is because you had a bad time with a medication (such as vomiting, wry neck, dizziness, euphoria, etc.) People frequently say they have an allergy to things like wool, compazine, pain meds, etc. for this type of reason, which is more of a "reaction" than an allergy. Unfortunately, not everything that someone is allergic to can be tested for. Also, the means of testing can be "monitored trial" (ie. taking the substance, food or medication, while you are close to the doctor's office in case of problems), "food challenge" (eating the food to see if it still is a problem), blood tests (for some foods and meds), skin prick testing (for some foods, meds, animals, foreign substances such as chemicals, dust, dustmites and the like) and patch testing (chemicals, fabrics, etc.) Which type you use depends on the type and/or severity of the allergy (with true anaphylaxis being the most severe and skin rashes not considered severe unless it is major hives, aka true urticaria.) Some things they have tests for are not accurate for the thing they are testing. There was a big thing for food blood testing about 10 years ago where they did IgA testing. However, IgE testing is the only blood testing that works. IgA testing just means that you have been exposed to the item, usually recently, not that you have an allergy to it. It is sometimes useful for determining which things to do food challenges on (for food that don't have prick tests or IgE testing.) Hope that helps. June M. Russell, MD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 16:40:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28989 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:40:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FKP3E03225; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FKP1N18515; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f252.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.130]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FKO0N17910 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:23:54 -0700 Received: from 207.137.181.62 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:23:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.137.181.62] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Very OT, but important if you're a Yahoo user Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2002 20:23:54.0633 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A657F90:01C22C3D] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:23:54 -0700 Status: RO Yet another good reason not to use HTML mail. MaggiRos >From: kj green >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Very OT, but important if you're a Yahoo user >Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:00:40 -0700 (PDT) > > > If you use Yahoo, did you ever notice that your email doesn't always say >what you wrote? Read on... > >BTW--I did try it and the words *are* changed. Since this is going out >through my yahoo account, I put astericks in place of a vowel in each word >that Yahoo changes. > >Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:03:19 -0400 > > To: Declan McCullagh > > From: Monty Solomon > > Subject: Do y*u Y*h**? > > > > http://www.ntk.net/2002/07/12/ > > > > >> HARD NEWS << > > > > in powers of two > > > > Nice to see, in the midst of all these scandals, Yahoo > > turning a healthy profit. But as other companies fiddle the > > figures, Yahoo's been busy instead with fiddling its own > > users' private correspondence. In a fantastically clumsy > > attempt to prevent cross-site scripting attacks, the free > > e-mail wing of the sprawling giant has long been replacing > > complete English words in the text of HTML mail sent to its > > users. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 17:21:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29227 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:21:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FL64E07446; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FL61N13012; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FL5MN12583 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g6FL5GK15539 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D333886.DA2BB3F4@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores, was: different velvets References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020712114741.00a36ec0@postoffice.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:03:03 -0400 Status: RO I'm beginning to feel lucky...New York's an hour (depending on traffic - though I usually take the train) north and Philadelphia is a hour south. I've got Little India about 45 minutes away and an okay Jo-Ann's and Rag Shop close by plus one independent who seems to get fabric castoffs from New York in addition to other stuff. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 17:42:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29408 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:42:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FLO3E10837; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FLO1N25498; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inet-mail4.oracle.com (inet-mail4.oracle.com [148.87.2.204]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FLNJN24961 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inet-mail4.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by inet-mail4.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.2/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g6FLLJC06326 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgmgw6.us.oracle.com (rgmgw6.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.15]) by inet-mail4.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.2/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g6FLLJ306314 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bperry_pc.oracle.com (dhcp-4op9-4op10-east-130-35-175-38.us.oracle.com [130.35.175.38]) by rgmgw6.us.oracle.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id g6FLNCS15350 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:23:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020715142224.00aa8d60@gmmail.oraclecorp.com> X-Sender: betsy.perry@gmmail.oraclecorp.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Elizabeth Hanes Perry Subject: Re: [h-cost] Very OT, but important if you're a Yahoo user In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:23:56 -0700 Status: RO This happens in plaintext E-mail as well. I've had it happen to me, both sending and receiving. It may be that the problem only occurs when you send the E-mail from a Yahoo address, because mail sent from Yahoo Mail passes through Yahoo's JavaScript composition page. Betsy Perry At 01:23 PM 7/15/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Yet another good reason not to use HTML mail. > >MaggiRos > > >>From: kj green >>Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >>To: h-costume@indra.com >>Subject: [h-cost] Very OT, but important if you're a Yahoo user >>Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:00:40 -0700 (PDT) >> >> >> If you use Yahoo, did you ever notice that your email doesn't always >> say what you wrote? Read on... >> >>BTW--I did try it and the words *are* changed. Since this is going out >>through my yahoo account, I put astericks in place of a vowel in each >>word that Yahoo changes. >> >>Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:03:19 -0400 >> > To: Declan McCullagh >> > From: Monty Solomon >> > Subject: Do y*u Y*h**? >> > >> > http://www.ntk.net/2002/07/12/ >> > >> > >> HARD NEWS << >> > >> > in powers of two >> > >> > Nice to see, in the midst of all these scandals, Yahoo >> > turning a healthy profit. But as other companies fiddle the >> > figures, Yahoo's been busy instead with fiddling its own >> > users' private correspondence. In a fantastically clumsy >> > attempt to prevent cross-site scripting attacks, the free >> > e-mail wing of the sprawling giant has long been replacing >> > complete English words in the text of HTML mail sent to its >> > users. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Be well, do good work, and keep in touch. - G. Keillor Betsy Hanes Perry betsy.perry@oracle.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 19:04:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30243 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:04:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FMn4E24857; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:49:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FMn2N18869; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FMmYN18662 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17UEdm-0004aT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:48:26 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.78 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:48:26 -0400 Status: RO > > > He asked me if I had > > any allergies, and I dutifully replied, as I had been taught by my > > Mother, "Penicillin and Compozine". Rather than just write these down > > (dutifully), he asked my why I thought I had those allergies. The > > first was inherited, I told him, and the second came from an episode > > when I was 18, when my appendix burst. He then asked if I had ever > > been tested for these "allergies". I said "no", and he told me that > > what I thought I had in the first case was unproven, and in the second > > was a reaction, not an allergy. He asked if I wished to be tested for > > the above. > > One of the problems with allergies *is* the terminology and also is > "folk lore". > > A common "folklore" is that if your parent is allergic to something, > then you are probably allergic to it too. However, have an allergic > parent just means that you have a higher chance of being allergic > to *anything* (and not necessarily the same thing as your parent.) > Having two parents with allergies raises the risk still more (basic > genetics.) Interesting... I discovered I was allergic to penicillin after my first wisdom tooth extraction when I was 21. Up until that point, I had been routinely given penicillin (and amoxicillin) as a kid to combat strep throat infections that I would get nearly every year up until I was 17. After a week of being on the penicillin as a precaution following the oral surgery I broke out in a mild rash on my torso. The doctor took one look at it and said "You're having an allergic reaction. Quit taking the penicillin and never touch another antibiotic that ends in '- cillin' ever again." I stopped the penicillin and the rash went away and that was that. My dad was deathly allergic to penicillin, but we never assumed that would be enough to keep either my sister or I from taking it. His allergy showed up pretty much the same way mine did, though: After years of taking it as a kid, at the age of 21, after being drafted for Vietnam, he came down with a horrendous case of pneumonia. The doctors gave him penicillin and he broke out in huge purple welts all over his body. After that if he so much as breathed spores from mouldy bread he had an allergic reaction. My allergy is no where near as bad, and I sometimes wonder if I really was having allergic reaction, but my doctor advised me to just avoid the -cillin drugs to be on the safe side (he mentioned the possibility of inducing a worse reaction with a second exposure, and since I have a killer immune system and the drugs are rather over-prescribed to begin with, I'm not terribly worried). Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 19:12:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30293 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:11:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FMu4E25430; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FMu2N22531; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FMt4N22004 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 45601717 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:54:22 -0400 Message-ID: <00a901c22c52$86ab2a20$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] dress questions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:54:06 -0500 Status: RO http://www.marquise.de/1500/weigel/wgl22.shtml I just found this picture which is almost the exact same dress as the respectable woman of Geneva in Janet Arnold's book. I would like some of your opinions on a few questions I have. 1) The collar - how would this be made? attached? kept in an upright position? 2) The skirt/bodice meeting point - since her arms are crossed in front, can anyone take a guess if this is a separate bodice and skirt or a one-piece gown? Would the bodice come to a point in the front or be flat? On a second look, the guarding from the bodice does not follow down the front of the skirt. Would bodice and skirt, if separate, be different fabrics? 3) My guess is that there is no farthingale under this skirt - anyone else? 4) Any comments on the head gear? This is different than the Genevan woman, who has what looks like a caul and some sort of soft cap/hat on over that. Is this some variation of coif, perhaps? 5) Anyone know where Argentoratensis is? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 19:42:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30419 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:42:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FNR6E27981; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FNR2N07349; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FNQ0N06937 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.16] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZB008TJ8U93F@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:54:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores, was: different velvets In-reply-to: <3D333886.DA2BB3F4@mccc.edu> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020712114741.00a36ec0@postoffice.att.net> <3D333886.DA2BB3F4@mccc.edu> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:53:52 -0400 Status: RO Really... That should put you in central New Jersey. So, where exactly are you. I'm in Whippany and the Garment district (seems at least) is a second home. Linda K-S At 5:03 PM -0400 7/15/02, Kate Pinner wrote: >I'm beginning to feel lucky...New York's an hour (depending on >traffic - though I >usually take the train) north and Philadelphia is a hour south. >I've got Little >India about 45 minutes away and an okay Jo-Ann's and Rag Shop close >by plus one >independent who seems to get fabric castoffs from New York in >addition to other >stuff. > >Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 19:52:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30465 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:52:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FNb2E28789; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FNb2N11309; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailsite.netdefender.net ([209.8.8.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FNarN11259 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:36:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netdefender.com (unverified [63.220.97.2]) by mailsite.netdefender.net (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:15:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3D335C9D.71EB0E25@netdefender.com> From: Jen Organization: NetDefender, LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020715113922.00a349b0@postoffice.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jen@netdefender.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:37:02 -0400 Status: RO How many people are interested in ordering a copy of the book? Maybe we can do better on the communications side if they only have to deal with one large order instead of lots of individual ones . . . --jen Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Oh boy, I'm feeling really embarrassed now, because it seems no one has > heard from the Kyoto Costume Institute about the book, even though I had no > problems. :-( If it helps any, this is the address of the person who > responded to me, and this is the email they responded with: > > From: "zK" > To: > Subject: Re: books from museum catalog > Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:25:47 +0900 > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 > > Thank you for your mail. > I could send you the catalogue by C.O.D.. > It is the only way to send you it. > When you order one catalogue, the estimation is > about US$45.(including the delivery cost) > Excuse me.The price you wrote in the mail is > only in Japan. > If you could accept this condition, please let me know > your address and telephone number. > > Sincerely, > Motofumi Suwa > The Kyoto Costume Institute > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 20:12:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30556 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:12:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6FNv2E00109; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FNv1N18422; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6FNuPN18197 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCssyFF2VrrXzmYHCUF1W3/ehlALpS/kB7w=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G7SZ9YZH; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:56:10 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute Message-ID: <20020715.185544.-284093.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:55:43 -0500 Status: RO I'd be interested in a copy for $45. If an order goes in, please count me in on it! Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 21:33:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30808 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:33:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G1I2E04202; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G1I1N16173; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G1HMN15954 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m229.in-tch.com [216.166.191.229]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6G13ZP23943 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D337579.B89AA887@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:23:05 -0600 Status: RO The stuff I've got in there is either not stuff that creases easily, or it's something like handkerchief linen that'll crease no matter what you do , until you wash it and iron it. Also, some of it's carefully folded with the right kind of paper. I live in a trailer, and don't really have any sort of room for rolled fabrics. I can put my best stuff (the really expensive brocades, the embroidered antique silk satin from my grandfather, the better pieces of wool, and my even-count-same-thread-count-in-both-directions handkerchief linen into that trunk and know that it's safe from critter nibbling (not mice, necessarily...I have a cat that eats silk and wool), and dust and snagging that might happen if it were on a roll and crammed into one of my two closets. --Sue Martha Kelly wrote: > > My most expensive stuff (carefully folded in my grandmother's old > trunk.... > > Not to be a wet blanket, but could you roll it instead of folding it? Won't > the creases be hard to get out? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 21:51:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30873 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G1a2E05180; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G1a1N21627; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from epimetheus.hosting4u.net (epimetheus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.70]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6G1ZSN21471 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 32392 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2002 01:35:27 -0000 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (209.15.2.27) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 2002 01:35:27 -0000 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.47.20]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:35:25 -0500 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_017F_01C22C47.870CFA30" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Costume College - final tally Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:35:22 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_017F_01C22C47.870CFA30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've made up a list of the folks who will be at Costume College. If others are interested, email me privately and I'll send it to you in .txt (plain text) format. I'd like to meet some of yall, and I thought the idea of adding a red "H" to our tags is as good an identified as any. Is that what I should look for, and put on my tag? Allison ------=_NextPart_000_017F_01C22C47.870CFA30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Costume College - final tally

I've made up a list of the folks who will be at = Costume College. If others are interested, email me privately and I'll = send it to you in .txt (plain text) format.

I'd like to meet some of yall, and I thought the idea = of adding a red "H" to our tags is as good an identified as = any. Is that what I should look for, and put on my tag?

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_017F_01C22C47.870CFA30-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 21:52:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30892 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:52:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G1bCE05282; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G1bCN22078; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from infoblvd.net (infoblvd.net [216.42.64.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G1anN21918 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:36:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from straight [216.42.122.240] by infoblvd.net (SMTPD32-7.06) id AAD784C00E4; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:45:59 -0400 From: "STRAIGHT " To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:48:29 -0400 Status: RO The first stage penicillin reaction is the fine rash, I had it too. But that's just the sensitivity stage. Next time, watch out. You may very well have an anaphylactic reaction----hives, swelling---including major swelling shut of the airway!----and extremely irregular heart beat. In other words, you can be dead in 5 or 10 minutes, and it won't be fun. I was about 45 when I got the rash, and was also told never to take any "illin" again also, unless as a last resort. And if you do ever wind up taking some, stick around, don't let them leave you alone. If it's going to happen, it will probably be right away, and can be treated. Diane S. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 21:58:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31010 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:58:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G1i2E05645; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G1i1N23998; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G1hPN23799 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-10-174.s174.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.10.174] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17UHN6-0001nb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:43:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3D337BFB.9050206@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:50:51 -0400 Status: RO STRAIGHT wrote: > The first stage penicillin reaction is the fine rash, I had > it too. > But that's just the sensitivity stage. > > Next time, watch out. You may very well have an > anaphylactic reaction----hives, swelling---including major > swelling shut of the airway!----and extremely irregular > heart beat. > That's what someone told me, too but I wasn't sure if she knew what she was talking about. I've now gotten the rash reaction from 4 different antibiotics (I carry a note in my wallet on top of my license), and I've wondered if this could happen if somehow I got dosed with something by mistake. E-mycin, Amoxy, Bactrim and Sulfa (unless I'm confusing the last two and forgot what the 4th is) are all out of bounds for me. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 22:11:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31277 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:10:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G1u2E06252; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G1u1N27561; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G1tPN27387 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:55:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020716015520.HSFL6023.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:55:20 +0000 Message-ID: <00d401c22c6b$d57850b0$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <20020715.185544.-284093.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:55:16 -0700 Status: RO I'd be interested in the Revolution in Fashion book... Just haven't gotten around to contacting them. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 22:54:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31674 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:54:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G2c3E08358; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G2c2N09916; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G2b1N09620 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.251]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020716023655.PUGZ24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:36:55 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020715213434.036900c0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute In-Reply-To: <3D335C9D.71EB0E25@netdefender.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020715113922.00a349b0@postoffice.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:35:15 -0500 Status: RO At 07:37 PM 7/15/2002 -0400, you wrote: >How many people are interested in ordering a copy of the book? Maybe we can >do better on the communications side if they only have to deal with one large >order instead of lots of individual ones . . . > > >--jen I would definitely be interested. I've been lusting after that book for awhile... Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 22:56:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31686 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:56:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G2f3E08556; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G2f2N10842; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G2emN10740 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:40:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6G2g4o07845 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:42:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207160242.g6G2g4o07845@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020715213434.036900c0@mail.attbi.com> "from Danielle Nunn-Weinberg at Jul 15, 2002 09:35:15 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO me too -- and I did contact them, and heard back once, but not again. .heather. > At 07:37 PM 7/15/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >How many people are interested in ordering a copy of the book? Maybe we can > >do better on the communications side if they only have to deal with one large > >order instead of lots of individual ones . . . > > > > > >--jen > > I would definitely be interested. I've been lusting after that book for > awhile... > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 15 23:40:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31846 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:40:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G3O2E10698; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G3O1N23119; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G3NAN22823 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2121.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.121]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15600 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:23:07 -0400 Message-ID: <3D338FF2.B1A532E0@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? References: <20020715072302.61570.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:16:02 -0400 Status: RO Hi. Sorry, I wasn't meaning to say that Aachen wasn't anything other than beautiful, just recounting what I found when I was there long ago, but quite a few years after the war. I'm glad that things were cleaned up. I was truly surprised when I came across the buildings back then. I also got a nasty surprise that day when I was stopped by the Grenschutzpolizei while perusing a Red Brigades/ Bader Meinhoff Gang poster. Up until that time, I had never had a fully automatic loaded and cocked weapon pointed at me. It made me realize that I had taken my American freedoms for granted (which I never have again, and is even more meaningful in these latter days). I'm glad to know that things improved since then. I have always been and will always be a Germanophile. As to the obligatory costume content, I believe that the Cathedral at Aachen has some lovely textiles from Charlemagne's time onward on display, as well as some furniture and jewelry. Besides that, it is the crossroads into the three other neighboring countries. Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 00:27:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31970 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:27:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G4C4E13010; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G4C1N06943; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G4BrN06902 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:11:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-65.59.82.27.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [65.59.82.27]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6G4Bpm162726 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:11:51 -0400 Message-ID: <00dc01c22c7f$22371860$1b523b41@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020715113922.00a349b0@postoffice.att.net> <3D335C9D.71EB0E25@netdefender.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:13:24 -0400 Status: RO I'd be interested. Moira > How many people are interested in ordering a copy of the book? Maybe we can > do better on the communications side if they only have to deal with one large > order instead of lots of individual ones . . . > > > --jen > > > > > Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: > > > Oh boy, I'm feeling really embarrassed now, because it seems no one has > > heard from the Kyoto Costume Institute about the book, even though I had no > > problems. :-( If it helps any, this is the address of the person who > > responded to me, and this is the email they responded with: > > > > From: "zK" > > To: > > Subject: Re: books from museum catalog > > Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:25:47 +0900 > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 > > > > Thank you for your mail. > > I could send you the catalogue by C.O.D.. > > It is the only way to send you it. > > When you order one catalogue, the estimation is > > about US$45.(including the delivery cost) > > Excuse me.The price you wrote in the mail is > > only in Japan. > > If you could accept this condition, please let me know > > your address and telephone number. > > > > Sincerely, > > Motofumi Suwa > > The Kyoto Costume Institute > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 00:46:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32016 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:46:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G4W3E13882; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G4W2N12031; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe31.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G4VwN12002 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:31:52 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "H-Costume@Indra.Com" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020715113922.00a349b0@postoffice.att.net> <3D335C9D.71EB0E25@netdefender.com> <00dc01c22c7f$22371860$1b523b41@momdad> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2002 04:31:52.0857 (UTC) FILETIME=[B593F090:01C22C81] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:31:02 -0400 Status: RO I'm very interested. I contacted them already through the general address - no luck. So if someone is organizing a general order and has more luck with it, I'd very gladly jump in! Audrey > > How many people are interested in ordering a copy of the book? Maybe we > can > > do better on the communications side if they only have to deal with one > large > > order instead of lots of individual ones . . . > > > > > > --jen > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 01:17:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32108 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:17:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G523E15284; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G522N19811; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G51SN19585 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:01:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-77.gti.net [208.216.115.77]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 84E5F358B1 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D33A8A9.CFD83C61@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020715113922.00a349b0@postoffice.att.net> <3D335C9D.71EB0E25@netdefender.com> <00dc01c22c7f$22371860$1b523b41@momdad> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:01:29 -0400 Status: RO Two days ago I sent e-maile to kci-suwa@wacoal.co.jp. My order was for the book "Japonism in Fashion" and "Revolution in Fashion", the video (I already have the book).. I have yet to receive a response as well. My guess is that there is probably only one person there who speaks enough English to respond properly & when that person gets the veritable diluge of messages they've received from us, he/she will respond... I mean, there's obviously someone there, right? Sometimes these things take time.. Deb R. > How many people are interested in ordering a copy of the book? Maybe we can > do better on the communications side if they only have to deal with one large > order instead of lots of individual ones . . . > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 01:25:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32148 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:25:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G5A2E15655; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G5A2N22043; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from infoblvd.net (infoblvd.net [216.42.64.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G59LN21836 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from straight [216.42.122.240] by infoblvd.net (SMTPD32-7.06) id ACAC1424010C; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:18:36 -0400 From: "STRAIGHT " To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 In-Reply-To: <3D337BFB.9050206@oldwaylane.net> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:21:05 -0400 Status: RO <<<<<<<<>>>>>. That's a nice assortment. Pretty well covers most of the major antibiotic families. For heaven's sake, don't stick yourself with anything "interesting"! Erithromycin-----there's a whole "family" of mycins and myecins (which are not quite the same thing, I did not misspell them). . Amoxy -----is amoxicillin, another penicillin, specifically good for ear infections. They give it to kids a lot, and adults for sinus infections and stuff like that. Seems to work better for some people than others. Bactrim ----I don't know much about that one, but it sounds like Bacitracin or Bactine, the common stuff for cuts, etc. Read the labels and ask the druggist, it's in a lot of tubes of over-the-counter meds, like Triple Antiobiotic, etc. Sulfa -----baddie. My daughter had a reaction to this one, big blisters on her face that took 2 weeks to heal. They use it for urinary infections, and you have to drink a LOT of water to avoid worse bladder problems. One of the kid's antibiotics is half sulfa and half something else. I can't remember the name, guess I better go look that one up and keep it handy. I find it interesting that a lot of people don't get along with sulfa, yet it is, or was, the basic item in the military first aid kits. Probably was not very interesting to somebody who got hurt, then had a bad reaction to the sulfa on top of it. Diane S. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 01:30:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32164 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:30:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G5E2E15820; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G5E2N23224; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G5DnN23158 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:13:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g6G5DJdU019955; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:13:21 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "SCA-GARB" , "H-Costume" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Books from David Brown Book Company Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:22:24 -0700 Status: RO Just got a note from Kristin Payne who used to be at Boydell and Brewer publishers. She has now moved on to David Brown Book Company, and sent along some information on textile books they carrying. In addition to Stepping Through Time: a history of shoes from Pre-history to 1800 they carry this one, something that a number of people on this list have been interested in: Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials MARGARETHE HALD This ‘comparative study of costume and Iron Age textiles’ discusses the often remarkably well preserved textiles and other garments from prehistoric deposits and burials in Denmark’s numerous mose. Hald examines in turn textiles and skins from peat bogs; textiles from settlements and graves; raw materials and spinning; woven fabrics and their construction; dating prehistoric Danish weaves; looms and fabrics; needle and sewing; prehistoric costume. 8 74800 312 3, 398p with 465 figs & illus., Hardback (National Museum of Denmark 1980) Publishers Price US $70.00 DBBC Price US $56.00 Otheres are: North European Textiles until AD. 1000 LISE BENDER JORGENSEN This book is firstly an enormous catalogue of all textile finds from prehistoric, Roman and medieval contexts in Great Britain, Ireland, the Netherlands, Germany, Poland and Scandinavia. This data is used to show that the first steps towards organized textile production in northern Europe were taken more than 2,500 years ago, and that the industry that was to centre itself around the English Channel and North Sea coastal areas played an important part in the rise of the Carolingian Empire and Anglo-Saxon England. 8 77288 416 9, 285p with 206 figs, maps, photos and illus., Hardback, (Aarhus UP 1992) Publishers Price US $59.95 DBBC Price US $47.96 Textiles in European Archaeology LISE BENDER JORGENSEN Thirty-three articles by 38 authors on various aspects of archaeological textiles from the prehistoric, Roman, Migration period, Viking Age, Medieval and later periods. These papers were given at the 6th triennial meeting of the North European Symposium for Archaeological Textiles held 7th-11th May 1995 in Borĺs. 9 18595 274 5, 330p, Paperback (GOTARC Series A, Volume 1 Goteborgs Univeritet) DBBC Price US $43.50 Archaeological Textiles in Northern Europe EDITED BY LISE BENDER JORGENSEN AND ELISABETH MUNKSGAARD The report from the fourth NESAT symposium, held in Denmark in 1990, to promote the study and publication of textiles from archaeological sites in northern Europe, contains 26 contributions in English and German. They include: Neolitische Textilien im Raum Zurich (A Rast-Eicher); Pre-Roman Iron Age textiles in Europe north of the Alps (L B Jorgensen); Vindolanda 1985-89 (JP Wild); Aspects of the wool textiles from Viking Age Dublin (F Pritchard); Silk threads on leather objects from the Middle Ages (I R Pedersen); The wools in some medieval textiles from Bryggen (E Schjolberg); Experimente am Gewichts-, Rund- und Trittwebstuhl im Mittelalterlicher Museumsdorf Duppel (A Goldmann); Drying archaeological textiles (E P Peacock); Quantitative research in ancient textiles and freeze drying (W D Cooke & E P Peacock). 8 78973 004 6, 237p with figs and illus., Paperback, (Viborg Museum 1992) DBBC Price US $68.50 Textiles in Northern Archaeology PENELOPE WALTON These 25 papers from the third (1987) NESAT symposium at York range from the Neolithic of Northern Europe and the Swiss lakes to 17th-century garments in graves at Spitzbergen and in coffins at Roskilde cathedral, by way of prehistoric to Roman weaving systems in SW Europe, prehistoric dyes, Anglo-Saxon ‘relic’ boxes, the Maaseik embroideries, Viking age techniques (spinning, silk and wool headcoverings, women’s dress), Medieval textiles (in Gdansk, patterned weaves, embroidery) and others. They represent not only the latest research, but a first rate introduction to the subject. The volume is dedicated to Elisabeth Crowfoot. 1 87313 205 0, 231p with photos throughout, Paperback, (NESAT/Archetype 1990) DBBC Price US $30.00 The Roman Textile Industry and its influence EDITED BY PENELOPE WALTON ROGERS, LISE BENDER JORGENSEN AND ANTOINETTE RAST-EICHER Textiles were a hugely important Roman industry yet, because of their perishable nature, only fragments remain. These twenty-two essays provide a detailed study of surviving fragments from across the Roman world, from the dry sands of Egypt to the Atlantic coast and the northern frontiers and beyond. The result is a comprehensive reconstruction of both everyday and exotic Roman clothing with information about the influences of fashion and of Roman weaving techniques. Written by friends and colleagues, the contributions are offered as a tribute to John Peter Wild whose own studies of Roman textiles have been the inspiration of so much recent work. 1 84217 046 5, 200p, 4 col pls, illus, Hardback, (Oxbow Books 2001) Publishers Price US $35.00 DBBC Price US $28.00 Studies in Textile History EDITED BY VERONIKA GERVERS This is a diverse collection of 25 essays on ancient textiles presented to Harold Burnham, former curator of textiles at the Royal Ontario Museum. Papers include: Icelandic medieval embroidery terms and techniques (Elsa Gudjonsson); Archaeological and ethnological considerations of the floor-braced body-tension loom (John Vollmer) and Examples of medieval tablet-woven bans (Sigrid Muller-Christensen). 0 88854 192 9, 370p, many b/w pls, Hardback, (ROM 1977) Publishers price US $45.00 DBBC Price US $12.98 Textiles: A Classification of Techniques ANNEMARIE SEILER-BALDINGER An illustrated practical guide to the production of threads and fabrics, weaving and fabric ornamentation and processing which includes ethnographic and archaeological research from many different cultures. Includes a substantial bibliography. 1 86333 110 7, 256p, 32 col pls, 300+ b/w figs, Paperback, (Crawford House 1994) Publishers price US $17.95 DBBC Price US $14.98 Textiles of Late Antiquity ANNEMARIE STAUFFER A handbook to a 1996 exhibition at the Metropolitan Museum in New York with a brief introductory essay and descriptions of 61 exhibited items from across the Eastern Mediterranean, Asia Minor, Egypt and the Near East. 48p, 30 col pls, b/w illus., Paperback, (Metropolitan Museum 1995) Publishers price US $8.95 DBBC Price US $3.98 Van Dyck and the Representation of Dress in Seventeenth-Century Portraiture. E. GORDENKER This book shows that an understanding of dress can offer a new way of revealing the associations and ideals that a portrait may have projected, and that the history of costume provides a unique set of tools with which to analyse the creativity and contributions of Van Dyck. 2 503 50880 4, 350 p., 100 b/w illus.+16 colour illus., Hardback (Brepols Publishers 2002) Publishers Price: $90.00 DBBC Price US $72.00 Wanda "Never try and apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem!" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 01:39:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32180 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:39:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G5O4E16280; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G5O2N26302; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G5NeN26174 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:23:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-77.gti.net [208.216.115.77]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id AF489354BF for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D33ADDD.D3347D8C@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020715113922.00a349b0@postoffice.att.net> <3D335C9D.71EB0E25@netdefender.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:23:42 -0400 Status: RO Hey, it's not your fault-don't be embarrased..It's just that now they have been bombarded with e-mails from all of us here on this list, mostly asking for that one book. When you wrote them, I'm sure it was probably just you & maybe one other random person e-mailing them with requests. I saw this happen before on a button collectors' e-list; everyone decides all at once to order like, one thing & the folks with the coveted items, in this case the Kyoto, ends up overwhelmed by a sudden onslaught of demands for merchandise, in this case, books. But then again, everyone wants what they want, and right now(!), so it's not likely anyone will wait a while to order.. Deb R. > Oh boy, I'm feeling really embarrassed now, because it seems no one has heard > from the Kyoto Costume Institute about the book, even though I had no problems. > :-( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 03:06:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA32599 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:06:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G6p3E19750; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G6p1N19068; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G6omN19003 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-77.gti.net [208.216.115.77]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 5472A3573F for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D33C24A.20513908@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric shops in the UK References: <20020715092500.16078.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:50:50 -0400 Status: RO You are so right, the silk at this site is absolutely beautiful and I'm sure it's worth it every cent. Ye Gods, I wish I had a suitcase full of $20s! *Sob.* ......... Deb R. Love the grapevine embroidery on this page: http://www.hansson-silks.co.uk/plainembroideries.html ...and the tissue embroidery here... http://www.hansson-silks.co.uk/tissueembroideries.html > There is a superb silk shop in Guildford, Surrey. It is Hansson Silks. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 03:29:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11069 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:29:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6G7D2E20664; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6G7D1N24435; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6G7CXN24308 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:12:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020716071232.80825.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:12:32 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Austrian/German holiday: suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D338FF2.B1A532E0@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:12:32 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- leigh tartaglio wrote: > Hi. Sorry, I wasn't meaning to say that Aachen wasn't anything other than > beautiful, just recounting what I found when I was there long ago, but quite > a few > years after the war. You are talking about the 1970s I presume. I also got a nasty surprise that > day > when I was stopped by the Grenschutzpolizei while perusing a Red Brigades/ > Bader > Meinhoff Gang poster. You did something apparently foolish in the 1970s. A) there are NO borders anymore because you are talking about continental Europe. Aachen used to be at the border to two countries. Holland and Belgium, it still is, but one just hops to and fro nowadays. I don't know if you realise this, but terrorism was very bad in the 70s by the RAF, the Bader Meinhoff gang, just like terrorism was very bad for the UK with teh IRA, I think in the 80s. Well, guess it seems as if terrorism had shifted now away from Europe. Terrorism is horrendeous, but we here grew up with it. That doesn't make it any better (gods, no!) but is just one of thse things. I live between the Royal Engineers and the Gurka barracks, there are no litterbins anywhere, and still we get the occasional bomb threat. Oh well, we just gather all with the pets in the nearest safe pub and wait and see and hope our houses won't explode. I know that sounds off hand, but there you are, not much can phaze the British I guess. (and the bloody foreigners living there *laughs*) Up until that time, I had never had a fully automatic > loaded > and cocked weapon pointed at me. As I said, it was 1970s and in the height of RAF terrorism. It was terrible, though I was a kid I do remmeber and I also remeber the satisfaction with which faces were crossed out on the terrorist posters, when they finally got the killers. It made me realize that I had taken my > American > freedoms for granted EXCUSE ME?! Could you explain what that means, American freedoms? I very much disagree, what do you think is going on nowadays in America with the terrorism scare, don't you think the same could happen to you over where you live, when the fears are high? That doesn't have anything to do with not having freedom. We never did not have freedom at home. (which I never have again, and is even more meaningful > in > these latter days). I'm glad to know that things improved since then. I have It is not about improving, it is about terrorism having died down in germany and because England was talking to the IRA finally, it has died down here too, but it still is a threat. Take Spain and the Basks for example. Sorry, you just hit anerve here, I am a very proud and very happy European and wouldn't want to be anything else. Very proud indeed. Better back to costume content. > believe that the Cathedral at Aachen has some lovely textiles from > Charlemagne's > time onward on display, as well as some furniture and jewelry. As I said, the treasury has a lovely rotating display, some of the garments are BEAUTIFUL! You are going to drool about te beading and stones and embroidery... Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 10:18:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11508 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:18:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GE29E06591; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GE24N03612; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GE1uN03527 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:01:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-63.208.201.162.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [63.208.201.162]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6GE1ta213726 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:01:55 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c22cd1$9070e520$a2c9d03f@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books from David Brown Book Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:03:27 -0400 Status: RO Wanda, First, let me say you can truly be an evil woman! I don't possibly have enough Birthdays and Anniversaries/Christmases to get all of these that I now want. (thanks, btw- a lot of these are in specific areas I was interested in going next.) Second, I love your signature line.;-D Moira a fan of B-5, most Star Trek series', Earth Final Conflict, Quantum Leap, old Twilight Zone, etc. (gotta corrupt the kids somehow, right?) In addition to Stepping Through Time: a history of shoes from Pre-history to 1800 they carry this one, something that a number of people on this list have been interested in: Wanda "Never try and apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem!" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 10:43:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11607 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:43:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GES4E08477; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GES3N14643; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailjaya.creighton.edu (MailjayA.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GERuN14578 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by mailjaya.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA11641 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:27:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000c01c22cd4$dac49380$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <20020715.185544.-284093.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:27:02 -0500 Status: RO At least the price hasn't gone up, even though the cover might have changed(or is the cover on the website actually the box for the video?). I bought mine a good five years ago and paid about $45 for it. But my bookstore(whose employee went the extra mile in return for a peek at the book)found a stateside source. This book is just priceless!! BTW, does anyone on the list know a rough conversion from Yen to US$ and if the video works in US VCR's In Japanese or English, to view some of what's in the book on video--for us that have frame advance or slow mo features on our VCRs--to get to view the actual costumes in possibly more than one view. Yum, Yum! Cindy Abel ILL Coordinator Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California Plaza Omaha NE 68178-0210 Phone: 402. 280-5144 Fax: 402.280-5134 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 10:52:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11654 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:52:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GEb2E09175; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEb1N18750; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f112.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.112]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEalN18620 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:36:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:36:42 -0700 Received: from 63.162.162.157 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:36:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.162.162.157] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books from David Brown Book Company Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2002 14:36:42.0525 (UTC) FILETIME=[33E7D4D0:01C22CD6] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:36:42 +0000 Status: RO Do they have a website one can order from? Mary/Katerine >Just got a note from Kristin Payne who used to be at Boydell and Brewer >publishers. She has now moved on to David Brown Book Company, and sent >along some information on textile books they carrying. > >In addition to Stepping Through Time: a history of shoes from Pre-history >to >1800 they carry this one, something that a number of people on this list >have been interested in: > > >Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials >MARGARETHE HALD >This ‘comparative study of costume and Iron Age textiles’ discusses the >often remarkably well preserved textiles and other garments from >prehistoric deposits and burials in Denmark’s numerous mose. Hald examines >in turn textiles and skins from peat bogs; textiles from settlements and >graves; raw materials and spinning; woven fabrics and their construction; >dating prehistoric Danish weaves; looms and fabrics; needle and sewing; >prehistoric costume. >8 74800 312 3, 398p with 465 figs & illus., Hardback (National Museum of >Denmark 1980) >Publishers Price US $70.00 >DBBC Price US $56.00 > >Otheres are: > > >North European Textiles until AD. 1000 >LISE BENDER JORGENSEN >This book is firstly an enormous catalogue of all textile finds from >prehistoric, Roman and medieval contexts in Great Britain, Ireland, the >Netherlands, Germany, Poland and Scandinavia. This data is used to show >that the first steps towards organized textile production in northern >Europe were taken more than 2,500 years ago, and that the industry that was >to centre itself around the English Channel and North Sea coastal areas >played an important part in the rise of the Carolingian Empire and >Anglo-Saxon England. 8 77288 416 9, 285p with 206 figs, maps, photos and >illus., Hardback, (Aarhus UP 1992) >Publishers Price US $59.95 >DBBC Price US $47.96 > >Textiles in European Archaeology >LISE BENDER JORGENSEN >Thirty-three articles by 38 authors on various aspects of archaeological >textiles from the prehistoric, Roman, Migration period, Viking Age, >Medieval and later periods. These papers were given at the 6th triennial >meeting of the North European Symposium for Archaeological Textiles held >7th-11th May 1995 in Borĺs. >9 18595 274 5, 330p, Paperback (GOTARC Series A, Volume 1 Goteborgs >Univeritet) >DBBC Price US $43.50 > >Archaeological Textiles in Northern Europe >EDITED BY LISE BENDER JORGENSEN AND ELISABETH MUNKSGAARD >The report from the fourth NESAT symposium, held in Denmark in 1990, to >promote the study and publication of textiles from archaeological sites in >northern Europe, contains 26 contributions in English and German. They >include: Neolitische Textilien im Raum Zurich (A Rast-Eicher); Pre-Roman >Iron Age textiles in Europe north of the Alps (L B Jorgensen); Vindolanda >1985-89 (JP Wild); Aspects of the wool textiles from Viking Age Dublin (F >Pritchard); Silk threads on leather objects from the Middle Ages (I R >Pedersen); The wools in some medieval textiles from Bryggen (E Schjolberg); >Experimente am Gewichts-, Rund- und Trittwebstuhl im Mittelalterlicher >Museumsdorf Duppel (A Goldmann); Drying archaeological textiles (E P >Peacock); Quantitative research in ancient textiles and freeze drying (W D >Cooke & E P Peacock). >8 78973 004 6, 237p with figs and illus., Paperback, (Viborg Museum 1992) >DBBC Price US $68.50 > >Textiles in Northern Archaeology >PENELOPE WALTON >These 25 papers from the third (1987) NESAT symposium at York range from >the Neolithic of Northern Europe and the Swiss lakes to 17th-century >garments in graves at Spitzbergen and in coffins at Roskilde cathedral, by >way of prehistoric to Roman weaving systems in SW Europe, prehistoric dyes, >Anglo-Saxon ‘relic’ boxes, the Maaseik embroideries, Viking age techniques >(spinning, silk and wool headcoverings, women’s dress), Medieval textiles >(in Gdansk, patterned weaves, embroidery) and others. They represent not >only the latest research, but a first rate introduction to the subject. The >volume is dedicated to Elisabeth Crowfoot. >1 87313 205 0, 231p with photos throughout, Paperback, (NESAT/Archetype >1990) >DBBC Price US $30.00 > >The Roman Textile Industry and its influence >EDITED BY PENELOPE WALTON ROGERS, LISE BENDER JORGENSEN AND ANTOINETTE >RAST-EICHER >Textiles were a hugely important Roman industry yet, because of their >perishable nature, only fragments remain. These twenty-two essays provide a >detailed study of surviving fragments from across the Roman world, from the >dry sands of Egypt to the Atlantic coast and the northern frontiers and >beyond. The result is a comprehensive reconstruction of both everyday and >exotic Roman clothing with information about the influences of fashion and >of Roman weaving techniques. Written by friends and colleagues, the >contributions are offered as a tribute to John Peter Wild whose own studies >of Roman textiles have been the inspiration of so much recent work. >1 84217 046 5, 200p, 4 col pls, illus, Hardback, (Oxbow Books 2001) >Publishers Price US $35.00 >DBBC Price US $28.00 > >Studies in Textile History >EDITED BY VERONIKA GERVERS >This is a diverse collection of 25 essays on ancient textiles presented to >Harold Burnham, former curator of textiles at the Royal Ontario Museum. >Papers include: Icelandic medieval embroidery terms and techniques (Elsa >Gudjonsson); Archaeological and ethnological considerations of the >floor-braced body-tension loom (John Vollmer) and Examples of medieval >tablet-woven bans (Sigrid Muller-Christensen). >0 88854 192 9, 370p, many b/w pls, Hardback, (ROM 1977) >Publishers price US $45.00 >DBBC Price US $12.98 > >Textiles: A Classification of Techniques >ANNEMARIE SEILER-BALDINGER >An illustrated practical guide to the production of threads and fabrics, >weaving and fabric ornamentation and processing which includes ethnographic >and archaeological research from many different cultures. Includes a >substantial bibliography. >1 86333 110 7, 256p, 32 col pls, 300+ b/w figs, Paperback, (Crawford House >1994) >Publishers price US $17.95 >DBBC Price US $14.98 > >Textiles of Late Antiquity >ANNEMARIE STAUFFER >A handbook to a 1996 exhibition at the Metropolitan Museum in New York with >a brief introductory essay and descriptions of 61 exhibited items from >across the Eastern Mediterranean, Asia Minor, Egypt and the Near East. >48p, 30 col pls, b/w illus., Paperback, (Metropolitan Museum 1995) >Publishers price US $8.95 >DBBC Price US $3.98 > >Van Dyck and the Representation of Dress in Seventeenth-Century >Portraiture. >E. GORDENKER >This book shows that an understanding of dress can offer a new way of >revealing the associations and ideals that a portrait may have projected, >and that the history of costume provides a unique set of tools with which >to analyse the creativity and contributions of Van Dyck. >2 503 50880 4, 350 p., 100 b/w illus.+16 colour illus., Hardback (Brepols >Publishers 2002) >Publishers Price: $90.00 >DBBC Price US $72.00 > > > > >Wanda > >"Never try and apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem!" > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 11:00:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11702 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:00:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GEh3E09678; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEh2N21383; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEgAN21061 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK61WID8EO000G5P@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:41:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK61TTYDBW000IT1@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:39:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:35:39 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:35:08 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.109) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:35:07 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices In-reply-to: <200207111550.g6BFo8417567@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1C736583DFF@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:35:07 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > watched with equanimity as a table of wonderful 100% linens, as > low as $3/yard, has slowly disappeared. I restricted myself to > just 10 yards of red, 6 of blue, about 8 of white. (Hmm, now it > doesn't sound that restricted, does it? I'm trying to decide exactly what I'm going to make with the 10 metres of diamond and trellis patterned linen damask I bought at the weekend (it's white so I can shove finished garments in the machine and dye them whatever colour I want - Yay!). I couldn't resist it. It's too heavy for shirts/smocks but not so heavy that it wouldn't need interlining with somthing with a little more body to make smooth fitting bodices and doublets. The diamonds are about 2.5 inches high from point to point and the trellis around them about 3 inches and it just looked so sumptuos that I couldn't resist the chance to get a linen (oh so cool and comfy to wear in hot weather despite Robin's teasing about not needing it in England...) that doesn't look like a linen. I figure that I could make a couple of pair of 15th century hose from it and still have 8 metres or more left to make a big houpellande or sevelar smaller garments from... but can't decide what (and will probably not get around to makeing them for ages anyway > Add me to the list of those who buy less and better. I have been > slowly getting rid of the stash of "finds" I stocked up in my > youth, when I had less discriminating tastes (and was still using > cotton). Now I buy only linen, silk, and wool for costume use. I no longer get as tempted by fabrics for "fantasy" or SF costumes as I used to. Most of my historicals can edouble up as Fantasy ones anyway (so many fantsasty books, films, gaming sustems have pseudo-historical settings) that I prefer to emphasise the suitability for historical and use the costumes for both than to go for something only really suitable for fantasy and SF event use. Now, if only I could get around to using the various patterned (mostly checks and tartans) wools I've obtained over the years, my stash would be considerably reduced in bulk and I would have some justification for having bought so many patterned wools (rather than never having used *any* of them)... .... except for one pair of very basic drawstring trous and a matching teddy-bear from the offcuts. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 11:04:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11730 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:04:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GEn6E10259; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEn5N24380; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEmTN24069 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g6GEmOK08015 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D3431B2.1DE76F96@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College - final tally References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A0FA7F355698C796C5A1080C" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:46:11 -0400 Status: RO --------------A0FA7F355698C796C5A1080C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit silly question -- ya'll have been talking about this Costume College in Calif. But when is it? Kate > I've made up a list of the folks who will be at Costume College. If > others are interested, email me privately and I'll send it to you in > .txt (plain text) format. > > I'd like to meet some of yall, and I thought the idea of adding a red > "H" to our tags is as good an identified as any. Is that what I should > look for, and put on my tag? > > Allison --------------A0FA7F355698C796C5A1080C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit silly question -- ya'll have been talking about this Costume College in Calif.  But when is it?
Kate
I've made up a list of the folks who will be at Costume College. If others are interested, email me privately and I'll send it to you in .txt (plain text) format.

I'd like to meet some of yall, and I thought the idea of adding a red "H" to our tags is as good an identified as any. Is that what I should look for, and put on my tag?

Allison

--------------A0FA7F355698C796C5A1080C-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 11:06:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11747 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:06:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GEp2E10400; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEp1N25206; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEoJN24900 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK627R5FM8000G9X@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:49:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK627G0A4G000IT1@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:49:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:45:49 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:45:28 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.109) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:45:24 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-reply-to: <200207111550.g6BFo8417567@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1C762707DF4@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:45:24 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > (Just been visiting the suggested Silk sites, and drooling over the > keyboard. But as yet it would not be a good idea for me to take > scissors to fabric of that sort of quality and price). Hi Jane, Ask Gillian to tell you the address of the silk place near Dartford where we bought the fabric for Kethry's yellow and purple renaissance outfit the other year.... They don't have much in the way of heavy silks (no velvets) or period patterns but the plain-dyed colours of shirt-weight and slightly heavier silks are a reasonable price, especailly if you want to do something special for Court wear. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 11:08:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11769 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:08:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GEr1E10574; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEr1N26074; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEq0N25649 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK62A34VRK000IBF@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:51:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK629WY4XU000J1X@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:51:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:47:49 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:47:08 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.109) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:46:58 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-reply-to: <200207111550.g6BFo8417567@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1C7698317B9@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:46:58 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > How far back does velvet go, anyway? Not far enough for T-tunics to be made of it.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 11:11:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11799 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:11:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GEu2E10901; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEu1N27740; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GEtdN27521 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK62EW7FE8000D5Q@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:55:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK62EVXM7W000IVA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:55:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:51:49 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:51:04 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.109) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:50:52 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-reply-to: <200207111550.g6BFo8417567@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1C77A4A487B@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:50:52 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > 12th and 13th Century Velvet: > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/5459/bliaut3.html > includes the comment "Fragments of twill and cotton velvet have been > found dating back to 9th century France". I wonder what they used it > for back then? T-tunics? Perhaps I spoke too soon.... or perhaps it was only a furnishing fabric then? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 11:21:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11852 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:21:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GF62E11776; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GF61N02776; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GF5eN02588 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK62QVG1RK000J18@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:05:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK62QDS39Q000J1X@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:04:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:01:06 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:00:32 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.109) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:00:25 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-reply-to: <200207111802.g6BI2K403290@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1C7A2B55F92@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:00:25 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > For the 16th C as well (although the pieces that the V&A had from > that time period looked more like upholstery weight then clothing > weight.) > > The first velvets show up in the 12th century but initially they > were only used by the church in vestments, altar cloths and the > like. Use for non-church clothing came a bit later. Don't they have a (13th century I think) embroidered red velvet cope on display that was cut up and made into another garment (tunicle or dalamtic?) later, then was pieced back together into a cope? To me it looked just like the worn red velvet of the seats you used to get in old cinemas... well the bits not covered in embroidery did anyway. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 11:29:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11964 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:29:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GFE3E12462; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GFE2N06938; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GFDAN06456 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK630L2K5S000D5Q@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:13:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK630KP4ZK000J1X@mdx.ac.uk>; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:13:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:09:19 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:08:30 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.109) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:08:24 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this In-reply-to: <200207112210.g6BMA9420397@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com, h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1C7C4A34095@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:08:24 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Sue Clemenger wrote > >Is that *with* an iron afterbath, or *without?* > >--sue, completely enamored of tansy-dyed wool..... > > I think the best glow comes from the plutonium afterbath :-) (sorry, > I'm not the dyer, I have absolutely no idea!) Having seen the sickly colours produced on wool from tansy dying this weekend, I have to say I don't care what was used.... The colours reminded me of bile with a fluorescent tinge..... As I described that range of colours a few years ago - "the sort of green that narrowly misses being a particularly noxious shade of yellow and would probably have been better if it hadn't" Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 11:29:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11968 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:29:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GFEAE12484; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:14:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GFE9N07018; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:14:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GFDAN06460 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK630L2K5S000D5Q@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@net.indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:13:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK630KP4ZK000J1X@mdx.ac.uk>; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:13:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:09:19 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:08:30 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.109) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:08:24 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this In-reply-to: <200207112210.g6BMA9420397@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com, h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1C7C4A34095@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:08:24 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Sue Clemenger wrote > >Is that *with* an iron afterbath, or *without?* > >--sue, completely enamored of tansy-dyed wool..... > > I think the best glow comes from the plutonium afterbath :-) (sorry, > I'm not the dyer, I have absolutely no idea!) Having seen the sickly colours produced on wool from tansy dying this weekend, I have to say I don't care what was used.... The colours reminded me of bile with a fluorescent tinge..... As I described that range of colours a few years ago - "the sort of green that narrowly misses being a particularly noxious shade of yellow and would probably have been better if it hadn't" Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 11:39:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12023 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:39:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GFO3E13584; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GFO2N12391; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GFNvN12337 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:23:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g6GFNqK09662 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D3439FB.38611D9D@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fabric stores, was: different velvets References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020712114741.00a36ec0@postoffice.att.net> <3D333886.DA2BB3F4@mccc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:21:32 -0400 Status: RO A tiny town called Allentown, just off exit 7a of the turnpike, between exits 7 & 8 of 195 so I can be on the turnpike in less than 5 minutes (or 130 or 206 or on my way to 95 in no time). Getting to Edison for Little India is actually the worst traffic 'cause it's route1. Kate Linda Krecker-Schkred wrote: > Really... That should put you in central New Jersey. > > So, where exactly are you. I'm in Whippany and the Garment district > (seems at least) is a second home. > > Linda K-S > > At 5:03 PM -0400 7/15/02, Kate Pinner wrote: > >I'm beginning to feel lucky...New York's an hour (depending on > >traffic - though I > >usually take the train) north and Philadelphia is a hour south. > >I've got Little > >India about 45 minutes away and an okay Jo-Ann's and Rag Shop close > >by plus one > >independent who seems to get fabric castoffs from New York in > >addition to other > >stuff. > > > >Kate > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 12:52:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13254 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:52:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GGb5E21063; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GGb3N22749; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21303.mail.yahoo.com (web21303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6GGaXN22509 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020716163632.93140.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:36:32 PDT From: kj green Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College - final tally To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D3431B2.1DE76F96@mccc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO It's this coming weekend. A friend of mine is going--wish I could...*sigh* kate --- Kate Pinner wrote: > silly question -- ya'll have been talking about this > Costume College in > Calif. But when is it? > Kate > > > I've made up a list of the folks who will be at > Costume College. If > > others are interested, email me privately and I'll > send it to you in > > .txt (plain text) format. > > > > I'd like to meet some of yall, and I thought the > idea of adding a red > > "H" to our tags is as good an identified as any. > Is that what I should > > look for, and put on my tag? > > > > Allison > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 13:21:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13671 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:21:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GH62E23820; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GH61N09642; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GH5UN09392 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:05:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip56.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.56]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6GH5Qo06844 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:05:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions Message-ID: <3D33F211.26121.D1CF92F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:14:41 -0700 Status: RO > The first stage penicillin reaction is the fine rash, I had > it too. > But that's just the sensitivity stage. > > Next time, watch out. You may very well have an > anaphylactic reaction----hives, swelling---including major > swelling shut of the airway!----and extremely irregular > heart beat. > In other words, you can be dead in 5 or 10 minutes, and it > won't be fun. This is not always true. While sometimes this can be the first sign that you may have an allergy, it may be some other cause. Especially in children and teens, it may be an interaction between the antibiotic and the virus (which has *nothing* to do with an allergic reaction. Amoxicillin or ampicillin and mononucleosis is a very good example, but some cold and stomach "flu" viruses can do the same things, such as the echo viruses.) It could be a simple viral rash as well (which many of the cold viruses and stomach "flu" viruses can do extremely well even without an antibiotic any where near.) It's one of the reasons I don't like prescribing antibiotics when someone has had a cold for less than 10 days (no matter how much the patient or parent begs). We'd get a *lot* less "antibiotic allergies" that way! But then, it's well known that most doctors prescribe *way* too many antibiotics for the wrong reasons (faster than talking the patient/parent out of it and major pressure from parents/patients.) At least since the early 70's we doctors have been told that giving antibiotics can cause major shifts in the antibiotic resistance in communities. In the early 80s we saw that as a major problem with the hemophilus influenza bacteria (aka "H-flu", which HIB prevents) and in the last 5 years with streptococcus pneumonia (the "pneumococcus", which we also have a vaccine to combat.) We don't even need to talk about multiresistant staphylococcus ("staph" now getting MRSC although that is mostly a problem in hospitals and with patients who have major things going on like needing special catheters, trachs, surgically implanted feeding tubes, etc.) OK, I'll get down off my soapbox now. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 13:43:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13910 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:43:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GHRDE25980; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:27:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GHR2N21615; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GHQWN21327 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:26:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17UW5n-000Ifh-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:26:31 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:03:16 +0100 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Jean Waddie wrote: > >> The idea of needing to cater to the home sewer - well, I don't think >> any of the marketing bods in general retail would even recognise the >> existence of home sewing in this country. > >I think you hit an important difference there between the UK and the US. I >have a sense that sewing is not as typical an occupation for the British >as it is for us. > >For example, in the States, when I was in school at least, girls had many >chances to learn to sew, and you'd be more surprised to find a girl who >didn't have at least some basic sewing experience than one who did. We >could take "home economics" or sewing classes in school. (Boys were more >likely to take "shop" classes that included woodworking and similar >skills. Today I gather that the names of the classes are less >gender-oriented, and students are welcome to take whichever they want, but >I suspect some noticeable gender division remains in class makeup.) I >didn't take sewing in school because I'd learned in Girl Scouts, another >typical option. Some of my friends learned from their mothers, >grandmothers, or sisters. It's common to have a sewing machine in one's >home -- even my mother, who doesn't sew, had (and still has) a machine for >mending. Also, crafts such as quilting, which require some sewing >equipment and knowledge, are extremely popular. > >Am I correct in my impression that this is not the state in Britain? If >sewing is considered a specialty skill or hobby, fabric stores would be >considered specialty stores. That's the niche that leather or woodworking >stores occupy here -- that is, those are crafts that require specific >materials, but you're very lucky if you have a suitable supplier in town, >and you'd expect to find them in out-of-the-way places. > >I suspect that if it wasn't for the huge popularity of quilting and >similar crafts here, sewing stores would be far less common and accessible >than they are today. > >--Robin Robin, I'm sure other people around here know, but I don't have much idea how long it is since you were in school. I'm 33. My mother taught needlework, and in the schools she was in, all the girls (they were single-sex schools) did at least one or two years. We also had needlework at school, and I remember making a fluffy rabbit at Brownies, but somehow it doesn't go on in this country. It's one of those things they make you do at school but nobody ever does it at home. It's just cultural, I'm not sure why. I agree, dressmaking nowadays is considered a minority hobby, rather than an essential - patchwork and home decorating are on the up, so those shops are more common. I just can't imagine how people survive without sewing - any useful thingy I need, I do it with fabric. I know other people whose skills are elsewhere - carpentry or metalwork, and they would make something for the same purpose in their own way - I make a bag, they make a box. But sewing takes less cleaning up after! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 14:28:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14309 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:28:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GID4E00572; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GID2N17761; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GICNN17372 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip152.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.152]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6GICJq03118 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:12:19 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices Message-ID: <3D3401BD.1878.D5A3343@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200207111550.g6BFo8417567@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: <1C736583DFF@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:21:33 -0700 Status: RO Teddy wrote: > The diamonds are about 2.5 inches high from point to point and > the trellis around them about 3 inches and it just looked so > sumptuos that I couldn't resist the chance to get a linen (oh so cool > and comfy to wear in hot weather despite Robin's teasing about not > needing it in England...) that doesn't look like a linen. She obviously wasn't there when I was there. It wasn't the day we went to Hampton Court with you, but a couple of the other days were in the upper 80s (I don't remember what that was in centigrade as I translated it into fahrenheit so that I could figure out why I was so miserable.) It was very muggy and hot, but it was a complete surprise to the residents as well as us "furiners" since it was only late April or early May. I hadn't really brought clothes for hot weather so I ended up wearing a skirt rather than my long pants. (It was a very short skirt and my research assistant kept complaining about how the guys were ogling me on the Underground. Not bad for someone in their 40's. Of course, that was before I gained 30#!) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 14:28:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14313 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:28:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GIDaE00638; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:13:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GIDZN18087; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:13:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GICVN17442 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:12:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip152.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.152]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6GICQq03137 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:12:27 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets Message-ID: <3D3401BE.8952.D5A3450@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200207111550.g6BFo8417567@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: <1C77A4A487B@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:21:34 -0700 Status: RO > > 12th and 13th Century Velvet: > > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/5459/bliaut3.html > > includes the comment "Fragments of twill and cotton velvet have been > > found dating back to 9th century France". I wonder what they used it > > for back then? T-tunics? > > Perhaps I spoke too soon.... or perhaps it was only a furnishing > fabric then? I found that quote to mean something different than what the writer meant. She was referring to fustian but it seems like she was mixing up fustian (which has a nap raised, not by loops but by the same method that we sometimes use for flannel) with velvets. I wish she had footnoted it a bit, because I've looked through the books she mentions to find the information she put in, but I can't find it. Also, the looped Egyptian ones she mentions sound more like the looped fabric of cotton which we use for towels. (Turkish towels or terrycloth, for instance.) However, this is not really a "velvet" imitation although it may be a related technique. The problem may be with the word meaning in the time compared to the current word meaning. There were a lot of changes so you can't look up the definition in a modern textile dictionary and be sure that it meant the same thing then. I think that the fragments mentioned were more likely to be household goods than clothing in this case. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 14:28:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14318 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:28:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GIDUE00609; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:13:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GIDTN17999; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GICPN17397 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip152.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.152]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6GICLq03122 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:12:22 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions Message-ID: <3D3401BD.7200.D5A3397@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <3D337BFB.9050206@oldwaylane.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:21:33 -0700 Status: RO > Erithromycin-----there's a whole "family" of mycins and > myecins (which are not quite the same thing, I did not > misspell them). Erythromycin is the correct spelling but the mycin/myecin is correct. > Bactrim ----I don't know much about that one, but it sounds > like Bacitracin or Bactine, the common stuff for cuts, etc. It has nothing to do with either of those. It is trimethoprim- sulfamethoxazole (and sometimes goes under the name of Septra). > Sulfa -----baddie. My daughter had a reaction to this one, > big blisters on her face that took 2 weeks to heal. They > use it for urinary infections, and you have to drink a LOT > of water to avoid worse bladder problems. One of the kid's > antibiotics is half sulfa and half something else. That would be Septra or Bactrim (which are just brand names for the same thing.) > I find it interesting that a lot of people don't get along > with sulfa, yet it is, or was, the basic item in the > military first aid kits. That's because it was one of the only 2 antibiotics which were invented early on (with penicillin and streptomycin the other two.) It is more stable than penicillin or streptomycin and definitely less expensive than streptomycin. However, it doesn't touch strep or staph, which are common wound contaminants. It may get tetanus, however. (I don't remember what hits that since we don't see it much anymore except in immigrants and old people.) I think the military uses more Velocef now. I know they use it a lot in their VA clinics, although it is rare for doctors to prescribe in the "real world" because it's not particularly good. (It's probably cheaper.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 14:28:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14319 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:28:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GIDXE00623; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:13:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GIDWN18036; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:13:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GICSN17422 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip152.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.152]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6GICOq03127 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:12:24 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets Message-ID: <3D3401BE.10111.D5A33F7@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200207111802.g6BI2K403290@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: <1C7A2B55F92@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:21:34 -0700 Status: RO > Don't they have a (13th century I think) embroidered red velvet cope > on display that was cut up and made into another garment (tunicle or > dalamtic?) later, then was pieced back together into a cope? Are you thinking of the red cloak on display in the costume area at the V&A which used to be a skirt? It is heavily embroidered. But it's 16/17th C and in pretty good shape. It would not be unusual, however, for the ecclesiastic copes to be used to make other ecclesiastic garments (such as dalmatics or the like.) > To me it looked just like the worn red velvet of the seats you used to > get in old cinemas... well the bits not covered in embroidery did > anyway. That does sound more like a cope, but I don't remember a red cope at the V&A. (I'll have to look through my pictures as I got shots of everyone of the copes on display, the the dismay of my research assistant.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 14:37:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14344 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:37:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GIM4E01606; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GIM1N22802; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GILON22481 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip152.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.152]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6GILKo17845 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:21:20 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, was: Re: different velvets Message-ID: <3D3403DF.5817.D6285E0@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:30:39 -0700 Status: RO Jean wrote about England: > I'm sure other people around here know, but I don't have much idea how > long it is since you were in school. I'm 33. My mother taught > needlework, and in the schools she was in, all the girls (they were > single-sex schools) did at least one or two years. We also had > needlework at school, and I remember making a fluffy rabbit at > Brownies, but somehow it doesn't go on in this country. It's one of > those things they make you do at school but nobody ever does it at > home. It's just cultural, I'm not sure why. > > I agree, dressmaking nowadays is considered a minority hobby, rather > than an essential - patchwork and home decorating are on the up, so > those shops are more common. The US is heading in this direction. I think that's why we are losing so many of our good fabric stores. They are either going home deco, quilting (which I think is what you mean by patchwork) or high scale tailoring. That doesn't leave much for the recreational, historical or cheap home sewer. Part of it is that people used to make clothes at home to save money. Now it is cheaper to buy readymade than to make it at home. So, why bother to do it (except for people like us who live for sewing!) > I just can't imagine how people survive without sewing - any useful > thingy I need, I do it with fabric. I know other people whose skills > are elsewhere - carpentry or metalwork, and they would make something > for the same purpose in their own way - I make a bag, they make a box. > But sewing takes less cleaning up after! Exactly! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 16:29:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14850 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:29:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GKAKE12526; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:10:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GKA5N23697; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GJn6N11659 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17UYJc-0003zL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:48:56 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.78 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:48:56 -0400 Status: RO > This is not always true. While sometimes this can be the first sign > that you may have an allergy, it may be some other cause. > Especially in children and teens, it may be an interaction between > the antibiotic and the virus (which has *nothing* to do with an > allergic reaction. Amoxicillin or ampicillin and mononucleosis is a > very good example, but some cold and stomach "flu" viruses can > do the same things, such as the echo viruses.) It could be a simple > viral rash as well (which many of the cold viruses and stomach "flu" > viruses can do extremely well even without an antibiotic any where > near.) It's one of the reasons I don't like prescribing antibiotics > when someone has had a cold for less than 10 days (no matter > how much the patient or parent begs). We'd get a *lot* less > "antibiotic allergies" that way! I had never had a reaction to any -cillin drug before 3 years ago and it was only prescribed as a precaution against infection after my oral surgery (yeah, I guess that kind of means it's a little over-prescribed if they give it to you when you're not sick, but just in case). Within a few days I got the fine rash and was told to stop taking it ASAP. I wasn't sick at the time, there was really no reason for me to be on penicillin in the first place and I was properly caring for my suture sites so there wasn't much of a risk that I'd develop an infection to begin with. Like I said before, I have an iron constitution and I don't tend to aquire viruses (viruii?) and other communal bugs the way most people do, so the -cillin allergy isn't a big deal for me. Personally, I'm just as happy not to have to take one more overprescribed antibiotic. Which is not to say that I don't agree with antibiotics, just that I question the fact that they are so readily available and so easy to come by. > But then, it's well known that most doctors prescribe *way* too > many antibiotics for the wrong reasons (faster than talking the > patient/parent out of it and major pressure from parents/patients.) Or for "just in case" reasons. At one point I had 3 full bottles of vicodin sitting in my cupboard because two seperate doctors (my oral surgeon and my physician) felt that it was better if they gave me enough painkillers to render a horse unconscious than risk a potentially unhappy patient. Doesn't matter that vicodin makes me sick and I'm just as happy and more conscious on Advil... I flushed all three bottles down the toilet, but it just made me shudder that if it was *this* easy to come by, no wonder there are people out there who are addicted to the stuff! And don't get me started on the time I walked into the hospital and mentioned casually to the NP that I was feeling a little "down" and was handed a prescription for Prozac and Zoloft!!! > At least since the early 70's we doctors have been told that giving > antibiotics can cause major shifts in the antibiotic resistance in > communities. In the early 80s we saw that as a major problem with > the hemophilus influenza bacteria (aka "H-flu", which HIB prevents) > and in the last 5 years with streptococcus pneumonia (the > "pneumococcus", which we also have a vaccine to combat.) We > don't even need to talk about multiresistant staphylococcus > ("staph" now getting MRSC although that is mostly a problem in > hospitals and with patients who have major things going on like > needing special catheters, trachs, surgically implanted feeding > tubes, etc.) Exactly my feelings. For me, it's no biggie to forego the antibiotics because I'm not prone to serious illness (a cold here and there, but nothing major). Others are different, and should act accordingly, but popping Cipro out of paranoia is just plain stupid. It's the fastest way to creating a new strain of something more resistant to treatment than pretty much anything else. That, and failing to complete medication doses... > > OK, I'll get down off my soapbox now. Oops... Looks like I was taking up my share of the 'ol box, myself. Next? ;) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 16:36:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14891 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:36:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GKL5E13454; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GKL4N29898; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GKCgN25303 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZC00BJ6YT54Z@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:12:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books from David Brown Book Company In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020716121650.00d2d100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:17:54 -0700 Status: RO >Just got a note from Kristin Payne who used to be at Boydell and Brewer >publishers. She has now moved on to David Brown Book Company, and sent >along some information on textile books they carrying. > >In addition to Stepping Through Time: a history of shoes from Pre-history to >1800 they carry this one, something that a number of people on this list >have been interested in: I can't help but notice that their price is less than the publisher's price. So how can we get these books directly from them? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 16:36:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14895 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:36:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GKLBE13469; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GKLAN29967; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GKChN25320 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:12:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZC00BJ6YT54Z@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:12:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, was: Re: different velvets In-reply-to: <3D3403DF.5817.D6285E0@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020716125315.00c97f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:12:34 -0700 Status: RO >The US is heading in this direction. I think that's why we are losing >so many of our good fabric stores. They are either going home >deco, quilting (which I think is what you mean by patchwork) or >high scale tailoring. That doesn't leave much for the recreational, >historical or cheap home sewer. Most sewing stores in the US have re-made half their fabric space into craft space. And most of the craft stuff they stock is junky stuff, or no-talent kits. The quality of the fabric has gone down too. If Jo-Ann's and Walmart ever routinely had good fabric, they don't now except by accident. Everywhere else is a factory outlet or mill outlet store, a remnants-only store, a high-end place like Britex, or a quilt fabric store. >Part of it is that people used to make clothes at home to save >money. Now it is cheaper to buy readymade than to make it at >home. So, why bother to do it (except for people like us who live for >sewing!) The cheap imported clothing from the Far East has largely made sewing skills redundant. My daughter who is into fashion can't be bothered to do her own mending, and bribes me to do it instead of letting her sewing-challenged father attempt it. My daughter who is into costumes, and dolls, is learning to sew, embroider, and crochet. > > I just can't imagine how people survive without sewing - any useful > > thingy I need, I do it with fabric. I know other people whose skills > > are elsewhere - carpentry or metalwork, and they would make something > > for the same purpose in their own way - I make a bag, they make a box. > > But sewing takes less cleaning up after! Quilt-making is much more popular than it was 20 years ago. Other sewing-related crafts are too. The American Girl Doll company sells a line of historical doll clothes patterns (www.americangirl.com). Major pattern companies are selling historically usable costume patterns, and there are many little historical costume pattern companies springing up, like Margo's. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 16:49:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14910 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GKY6E14895; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GKY5N07792; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GKIZN28489 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:18:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-66.gti.net [208.216.115.66]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id E919F359D2 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D347F84.7AAB7953@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute References: <20020715.185544.-284093.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> <000c01c22cd4$dac49380$55c98693@creighton.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:18:12 -0400 Status: RO >BTW, does anyone on the list know a rough conversion from Yen to US$? Yes, I do Cynthia. The Yen-dollar exchange rate: 1,500.00 JPY = 12.9420 USD, according to XE.com: Universal Currency Converter http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi I finally heard from Kyoto today (yay) but alas, they are out of the Rev in Fashion video which I wanted pretty badly :-(( Oh well. But I am still ordering the book & video for "Japonism in Fashion", both of which are in Japanese unfortunately, but what can ya do? I thought the site said that the videos are in VHS format.. Deb R. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 17:15:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15078 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:15:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GL0EE17827; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:00:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GL0CN23522; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GKpwN18681 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:51:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-66.gti.net [208.216.115.66]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id C0EA4355BE for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D34876F.DFC3A899@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:51:59 -0400 Status: RO You guys are getting me worried now...Here's my issue: If I take Ampicillin for 2 or more days, I always experience awful stomach cramps & *ahem*- other gastro-intestinal problems.. This is a reaction right? Not an allergy? Also, until 2 years ago, I had never had problems using topical anti-biotic ointments (Bacitracin, Neosporin, Polysporin, etc.), but now, for some reason Polysporin causes my skin to turn bright red & painful but only the area it's been applied to... Could this mean I'm becoming allergic to spore-based antibiotics? Deb R. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 17:32:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15173 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:32:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GLH6E19478; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:17:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GLH4N03801; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GL8mN28914 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:08:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17UZYi-0003tA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:08:36 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.78 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:08:36 -0400 Status: RO I don't think stomach cramping is an allergic reaction, per se. If you read the literature that comes with the bottle of meds, it usually lists nausea and stomach problems as a side effect of the medication. Lots of meds have this problem, so it's pretty common. If it's unbearable and doesn't let up if you take the meds with food and/or milk, you should probably consult with your doctor. If you're having trouble keeping food down while you're taking the stuff or having (pardon me) bloody stools or something that extreme, definately take yourself to the emergency room. As for the ointments, I don't know much about that... I would say that if you're breaking out in a rash when you apply something to your skin, you're probably allergic to some compound in the ointment, but it may not be the antibacterial portion. Could be an alergy to aloe, or petroleum or whatever they're using as a base for the antibacterial compounds. Hope this calms your fears a little... :) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com > You guys are getting me worried now...Here's my issue: > If I take Ampicillin for 2 or more days, I always experience awful > stomach cramps & *ahem*- other gastro-intestinal problems.. > This is a reaction right? Not an allergy? > Also, until 2 years ago, I had never had problems using topical > anti-biotic ointments (Bacitracin, Neosporin, Polysporin, etc.), > but now, for some reason Polysporin causes my skin to turn bright red > & painful but only the area it's been applied to... > Could this mean I'm becoming allergic to spore-based antibiotics? > Deb R. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Absence of evidence, isn't necessarily evidence of absence." -Carl Sagab _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 17:49:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15295 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:49:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GLY8E21231; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GLY6N13333; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GLCEN01014 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020716211209.BNGA331.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:12:09 +0000 Message-ID: <002c01c22d0d$70b5c2a0$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C22CD2.C4330EF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:12:06 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C22CD2.C4330EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay, this may be a really dumb question, but -- What sort of petticoat do you wear under a late 1870's tie-back skirt? = I've looked at some of the sources on my bookshelf, and they talk about = a petticoat, cut along the same lines as the skirt, with ruffles down = the back & around the hem, and possibly a small bustle pad at the back. = Doesn't this make a lot of bulk to tie the skirt over? And -- should = the petticoat also have ties? Wouldn't that make even more bulk to tie = the skirt over? I know somehow I'm over thinking this! - Kendra ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C22CD2.C4330EF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay, this may be a really dumb = question, but=20 --
 
What sort of petticoat do you wear = under a late=20 1870's tie-back skirt?  I've looked at some of the sources on my = bookshelf,=20 and they talk about a petticoat, cut along the same lines as the skirt, = with=20 ruffles down the back & around the hem, and possibly a small bustle = pad at=20 the back.  Doesn't this make a lot of bulk to tie the skirt = over?  And=20 -- should the petticoat also have ties?  Wouldn't that make even = more bulk=20 to tie the skirt over?
 
I know somehow I'm over thinking = this!
 
- Kendra
 
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C22CD2.C4330EF0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 18:07:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15433 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:07:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GLq5E23007; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GLq2N23303; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GLg0N17764 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (morr0626.gti.net [208.216.122.26]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id D17363583C for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D349329.CBAFFD24@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:42:01 -0400 Status: RO Thanks Sarah. Naturally I try to avoid drugs that cause undesirable side-effects. If I need anti-biotics, I usually will take Erythromycin instead of any of the "illins".. I know a lot of people experience diarrhea, cramps, etc from Ampicillin, so I don't think that's all that atypical, but this topic just has me worried now. Deb > If you read the literature that comes with the bottle of meds, > it usually lists nausea and stomach problems as a side effect > of the medication. Lots of meds have this problem, so it's pretty > common. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 18:21:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15485 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:21:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GM56E24326; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GM55N00782; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GLqbN23682 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:52:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:44:38 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A3C5D8740100; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:44:37 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:44:37 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts Message-ID: <000201c22d12$defb7d40$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C22CE8.F6257540" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002c01c22d0d$70b5c2a0$befc8218@WERNTO> X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:50:58 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C22CE8.F6257540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kendra- Bulk is what you want, in this case. You can add ties to the petticoat, too. What you want to do is keep all the fullness at the back, none at the sides or front. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kendra Van Cleave Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:12 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts Okay, this may be a really dumb question, but -- What sort of petticoat do you wear under a late 1870's tie-back skirt? I've looked at some of the sources on my bookshelf, and they talk about a petticoat, cut along the same lines as the skirt, with ruffles down the back & around the hem, and possibly a small bustle pad at the back. Doesn't this make a lot of bulk to tie the skirt over? And -- should the petticoat also have ties? Wouldn't that make even more bulk to tie the skirt over? I know somehow I'm over thinking this! - Kendra ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C22CE8.F6257540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kendra—

 

=

Bulk is what you want, in this = case. You can add ties to the petticoat, too. What you want to do is keep all the fullness at the back, none at the sides or = front.

 

=

Kim

 

=

-----Original = Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kendra Van Cleave
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, = 2002 4:12 PM
To: = h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] 1870's = tie-back skirts

 

Okay, this may be a really = dumb question, but --

 

What sort of petticoat do = you wear under a late 1870's tie-back skirt?  I've looked at some of the = sources on my bookshelf, and they talk about a petticoat, cut along the same lines = as the skirt, with ruffles down the back & around the hem, and possibly a = small bustle pad at the back.  Doesn't this make a lot of bulk to tie the = skirt over?  And -- should the petticoat also have ties?  Wouldn't = that make even more bulk to tie the skirt over?

 

I know somehow I'm over = thinking this!

 

- = Kendra

 

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C22CE8.F6257540-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 18:33:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15524 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:33:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GMI3E25376; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GMI2N07742; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GMBON04165 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:11:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.220]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZD00CKJ4AWIZ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:11:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts In-reply-to: <002c01c22d0d$70b5c2a0$befc8218@WERNTO> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020716150537.00c97aa0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:11:14 -0700 Status: RO >What sort of petticoat do you wear under a late 1870's tie-back >skirt? I've looked at some of the sources on my bookshelf, and they talk >about a petticoat, cut along the same lines as the skirt, with ruffles >down the back & around the hem, and possibly a small bustle pad at the >back. Doesn't this make a lot of bulk to tie the skirt over? And -- >should the petticoat also have ties? Wouldn't that make even more bulk to >tie the skirt over? Same general shape, but of much thinner fabric. The small amount of bulk the petticoat provides will keep the skirt looking nicely rounded. Use ties if it needs them to make the right foundation shape. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 18:33:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15526 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:33:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GMIME25401; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:18:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GMILN07909; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f215.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.215]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GMBON04176 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:11:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:11:19 -0700 Received: from 63.162.162.157 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:11:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.162.162.157] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2002 22:11:19.0441 (UTC) FILETIME=[B636E810:01C22D15] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:11:19 +0000 Status: RO Actually, prescribing antibiotics before oral surgery isn't as silly as prescribing them for a cold. See, Dental problems can and have caused HEART infections. The plaque in your mouth is the same stuff that clogs your arteries. It's caused by bacteria. Surgery gives the bacteria an opportunity to enter your blood stream. I'm happy to hear they're doing that more often. Besides, you don't have to fill a prescription. Or take it after it's filled. I've flushed quite a few down the toilet in my time, and I have no problem saying "I won't take this pill". I am NOT a "good patient". :) Mary/Katerine (who is having problems controlling her desire to buy more fabric now that she has a steady income again - but keep the websites coming!) >I had never had a reaction to any -cillin drug before 3 years ago and >it was only prescribed as a precaution against infection after my oral >surgery (yeah, I guess that kind of means it's a little over-prescribed >if they give it to you when you're not sick, but just in case). Within >a few days I got the fine rash and was told to stop taking it ASAP. I >wasn't sick at the time, there was really no reason for me to be on >penicillin in the first place and I was properly caring for my suture >sites so there wasn't much of a risk that I'd develop an infection to >begin with. Like I said before, I have an iron constitution and I >don't tend to aquire viruses (viruii?) and other communal bugs the way >most people do, so the -cillin allergy isn't a big deal for me. >Personally, I'm just as happy not to have to take one more >overprescribed antibiotic. Which is not to say that I don't agree with >antibiotics, just that I question the fact that they are so readily >available and so easy to come by. > > > But then, it's well known that most doctors prescribe *way* too > > many antibiotics for the wrong reasons (faster than talking the > > patient/parent out of it and major pressure from parents/patients.) > >Or for "just in case" reasons. At one point I had 3 full bottles of >vicodin sitting in my cupboard because two seperate doctors (my oral >surgeon and my physician) felt that it was better if they gave me >enough painkillers to render a horse unconscious than risk a >potentially unhappy patient. Doesn't matter that vicodin makes me sick >and I'm just as happy and more conscious on Advil... I flushed all >three bottles down the toilet, but it just made me shudder that if it >was *this* easy to come by, no wonder there are people out there who >are addicted to the stuff! And don't get me started on the time I >walked into the hospital and mentioned casually to the NP that I was >feeling a little "down" and was handed a prescription for Prozac and >Zoloft!!! > > > At least since the early 70's we doctors have been told that giving > > antibiotics can cause major shifts in the antibiotic resistance in > > communities. In the early 80s we saw that as a major problem with > > the hemophilus influenza bacteria (aka "H-flu", which HIB prevents) > > and in the last 5 years with streptococcus pneumonia (the > > "pneumococcus", which we also have a vaccine to combat.) We > > don't even need to talk about multiresistant staphylococcus > > ("staph" now getting MRSC although that is mostly a problem in > > hospitals and with patients who have major things going on like > > needing special catheters, trachs, surgically implanted feeding > > tubes, etc.) > >Exactly my feelings. For me, it's no biggie to forego the antibiotics >because I'm not prone to serious illness (a cold here and there, but >nothing major). Others are different, and should act accordingly, but >popping Cipro out of paranoia is just plain stupid. It's the fastest >way to creating a new strain of something more resistant to treatment >than pretty much anything else. That, and failing to complete >medication doses... > > > > > OK, I'll get down off my soapbox now. > >Oops... Looks like I was taking up my share of the 'ol box, myself. >Next? ;) > >Sarah >http://www.elizabethanlady.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 19:00:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15604 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:00:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GMiVE27647; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GMiUN21671; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f99.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GMbaN18189 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:37:30 -0700 Received: from 63.162.162.157 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:37:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.162.162.157] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books from David Brown Book Company Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2002 22:37:30.0950 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EE82660:01C22D19] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:37:30 +0000 Status: RO The price for the Margarethe Hald book isn't listed as being discounted on the website, and it's the one I want. :( Mary/Katerine >>Just got a note from Kristin Payne who used to be at Boydell and Brewer >>publishers. She has now moved on to David Brown Book Company, and sent >>along some information on textile books they carrying. >> >>In addition to Stepping Through Time: a history of shoes from Pre-history >>to >>1800 they carry this one, something that a number of people on this list >>have been interested in: > >I can't help but notice that their price is less than the publisher's >price. So how can we get these books directly from them? > >Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 19:52:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16150 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:52:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GNa5E01828; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:36:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GNa3N16047; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g6GNKjE08977 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:20:45 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Allergies vs Reactions Message-ID: <20020716172045.A7892@net.indra.com> References: <3D34876F.DFC3A899@gti.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D34876F.DFC3A899@gti.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:20:45 -0600 Status: RO Guys, this is WAY off topic now. Please wrap it up or take it offline. Thanks. ...eliz, list admin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 19:55:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16160 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:55:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6GNeME02142; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GNeLN17759; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g6GNV2N13896 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:31:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute Message-ID: <20020716173102.B7892@net.indra.com> References: <20020715.185544.-284093.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> <000c01c22cd4$dac49380$55c98693@creighton.edu> <3D347F84.7AAB7953@gti.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D347F84.7AAB7953@gti.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:31:02 -0600 Status: RO > I thought the site said that the videos are in VHS format.. > Deb R. VHS vs Beta isn't the problem (that's cartridge size), it's NTSC vs PAL vs SECAM (the recording format used). The US uses NTSC format in its videos. The UK and many European and Asian countries use PAL. France uses SECAM. You can't play one format in a VCR of the other unless it's designed for it (tho some PAL VCRs can [barely] handle NTSC recorded in SP mode). The good news is that Japan uses NTSC, which means they should be playable in a US VCR. I'd confirm that it's NTSC before purchase, tho, just to be safe. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 20:26:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16380 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H0B3E04240; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H0B2N29781; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H00lN25808 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip73.access-one.com [198.247.160.73]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6H00js20986 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:00:45 -0400 Message-ID: <003a01c22d25$01c32000$49a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01C22CFB.15BFCCE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:00:43 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C22CFB.15BFCCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable some of the petticoats from that era had casings in the back panel to = shirr them up against the legs. I like a tier of ruffles down the back = and a small bustle pad placed at the low hip instead of the waistline = for most dresses in that era. I would also suggest the front panel of = the petticoat be smooth with the ruffles confined to the side and back = panels only - but it depends on when in the late 70's you are talking-75 = up to 1877 they were a bit fuller with 78-79 being pretty slim, and = starting to get fuller again in 1880. The ties aren't supposed to "bind" = your legs together mearly pull the front of the dress flat and you don't = want it showing through that you are bipedal! *mercy!* (wink) MJ Doug and Marna Jean Davis Shooting Star Enterprises Living History & Custom Historical Clothing http://www.shootingstarhistory.com/home.html oakley@access-one.com Alternate email- oakley@shootingstarhistory.com Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com - Victorian and Old West Era=20 Online Classes in History and Period Sewing -----Original Message----- From: Kendra Van Cleave To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:35 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts Okay, this may be a really dumb question, but -- =20 What sort of petticoat do you wear under a late 1870's tie-back skirt? = I've looked at some of the sources on my bookshelf, and they talk about = a petticoat, cut along the same lines as the skirt, with ruffles down = the back & around the hem, and possibly a small bustle pad at the back. = Doesn't this make a lot of bulk to tie the skirt over? And -- should = the petticoat also have ties? Wouldn't that make even more bulk to tie = the skirt over? =20 I know somehow I'm over thinking this! =20 - Kendra =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C22CFB.15BFCCE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
some of the petticoats from that era = had=20 casings in the back panel to shirr them up against the legs. I like a = tier of=20 ruffles down the back and a small bustle pad placed at the low hip = instead of=20 the waistline for most dresses in that era. I would also suggest the = front panel=20 of the petticoat be smooth with the ruffles confined to the side and = back panels=20 only - but it depends on when in the late 70's you are talking-75 up to = 1877=20 they were a bit fuller with 78-79 being pretty slim, and starting to get = fuller=20 again in 1880. The ties aren't supposed to "bind" your legs together = mearly pull=20 the front of the dress flat and you don't want it showing through that = you are=20 bipedal! *mercy!* (wink)
MJ
 
Doug and Marna Jean Davis
Shooting Star Enterprises
Living = History=20 & Custom Historical Clothing
http://www.shooting= starhistory.com/home.html
 oakley@access-one.com
Altern= ate=20 email-
oakley@shootingstarhistory= .com
 
Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com=20 -
 Victorian and Old West Era
Online Classes in History and = Period=20 Sewing
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Kendra Van Cleave <kendrav@attbi.com>
To: = h-costume@indra.com <h-costume@indra.com>
Dat= e:=20 Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:35 PM
Subject: [h-cost] 1870's = tie-back=20 skirts

Okay, this may be a really dumb = question, but=20 --
 
What sort of petticoat do you wear = under a late=20 1870's tie-back skirt?  I've looked at some of the sources on my=20 bookshelf, and they talk about a petticoat, cut along the same lines = as the=20 skirt, with ruffles down the back & around the hem, and possibly a = small=20 bustle pad at the back.  Doesn't this make a lot of bulk to tie = the skirt=20 over?  And -- should the petticoat also have ties?  Wouldn't = that=20 make even more bulk to tie the skirt over?
 
I know somehow I'm over thinking=20 this!
 
- Kendra
 
------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C22CFB.15BFCCE0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 21:30:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16583 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:30:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H1G7E07387; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:16:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H1G3N19822; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H0rZN13293 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:53:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m239.in-tch.com [216.166.191.239]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6H0dkr07089 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:39:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D34C166.156696E8@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos of 1700 costumes from the event this References: <1C7C4A34095@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:59:18 -0600 Status: RO Must be local-water thing, or something. The tansy-dyed wools done by my friends were very lovely shades of an almost olive-green. The silks were similar, but lighter. --sue Teddy wrote: > > > Sue Clemenger wrote > > >Is that *with* an iron afterbath, or *without?* > > >--sue, completely enamored of tansy-dyed wool..... > > > > I think the best glow comes from the plutonium afterbath :-) (sorry, > > I'm not the dyer, I have absolutely no idea!) > > Having seen the sickly colours produced on wool from tansy dying > this weekend, I have to say I don't care what was used.... The > colours reminded me of bile with a fluorescent tinge..... > > As I described that range of colours a few years ago - "the sort of > green that narrowly misses being a particularly noxious shade of > yellow and would probably have been better if it hadn't" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 21:31:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16587 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H1H3E07440; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H1H2N20098; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21305.mail.yahoo.com (web21305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.141]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6H1AfN18387 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717011040.19504.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:10:40 PDT From: kj green To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00a901c22c52$86ab2a20$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] OT-looking for a book--Help! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Greetings to the list. I'm looking for a book(s) published in 1989 by Marshall Cavendish Ltd called "Die Renaissance." It's at least a 2 volume set (a friend has volume 2). There's no ISBN and no editor listed. It's in German, but I suspect it was published in London. I happened across another book published by Marshall Cavendish Ltd and the city listed was London. Can anyone give me any ideas as to where to look for this book? I've tried abebooks and a couple of other book sites, to no avail. It's a great book, just full of color plates of paintings and portraits. I'd really like to have a copy--my friend lives 22 hours away, so looking up stuff is a tad difficult... Kate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 22:54:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16889 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:54:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H2djE12216; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H2D8N06577; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H1xEN01808 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alderweb.vaxxine.com (ppp27.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.27]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26921 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.0.20020716214001.00b74ef0@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@pop.vaxxine.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 To: h-costume@indra.com From: David Webb In-Reply-To: <3D2CF048.5AEDE7AD@dandy.net> References: <3D29956D.3D4F04A7@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] McFarland House costume display Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:17:35 -0400 Status: RO Greetings all: Members of h-costume from southern Ontario and northern New York State (or anyone who doesn't mind a drive) may be interested in a special exhibit, "Lady of the House, A Women's World As Seen In Dress 1810 - 1845." at McFarland House 15927 Niagara Parkway, Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON 905-371-0254 1-877-642-7275. Open 10:00 to 4:00 A few of the gowns can be seen at: http://www.niagaraparks.com/index.html/DYNS/lady_of_the_house/PS/340/sid/ErAqw00ViRn1IISi There are about 6 gowns from personal collection of Diane Gallinger of Jordan Heritage Resources, c. 1810 and 1845. Diane Gallinger purchased the c. 1810 gown at a farm auction for $20 Canadian (- I'd hate her if she wasn't so nice - we met her at the site - and saved it from being cut up or trashed.) No one else had any idea what it was. It's muslin with a train - embroidery a la Mathilde down the centre front and hem. It was made for a tiny women. Most of the other gowns are for people about 5 foot, (I'm f5' 9" - I notice these things) but this is much smaller. The embroidery is exquisite! it reminds me of the gowns in "Age of Napoleon". ( I should get the book out from the local University and compare it again in the flesh, or in the fabric!) Granted, it could have made its way to Canada any time in the last 190 years, but it was intriguing to see such a dainty, labour-intensive garment with a Canadian provenance. How come when I go to farm auctions, there's nothing but rusty old tools and china from K-Mart ? Life is cruel. Sheridan Alder _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 23:19:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17117 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 23:19:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H354E13684; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H352N21421; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H2rFN18147 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g6H2rCV331786 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:53:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-Reply-To: <00bc01c228ed$80905ce0$3fa0f7c6@marnadav> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:53:12 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO > wear badly- eventually they started calling it velveteen about the mid > 1880's but what I have read it was a bit "plusher" than most of the > velveteen is now- more like the cotton/rayon velveteen. Quick (and belated, but I'm a bit behind and wanted to make sure nobody else had addressed the issue first) clarification: Velveteen is *NOT* another name for velvet made out of cotton. Velvet and velveteen are two different fabrics with different weave structures. Boy, this is hard to explain...especially slightly sleep-deprived. brief weaving lesson: Warp threads are the long threads that go the length of the fabric and are stretched on the loom. Weft (or woof or filling) threads are the ones that go back and forth from selvedge to selvedge. Velvet is a warp-pile fabric. There are extra warp threads that are looped up between the rows of weft thread and cut. Terrycloth is also made this way, but the loops are left uncut. Velveteen is a weft-pile fabric. There are extra weft threads that are left as floats (skipping over several warp threads) and cut. Corduroy is another weft-pile fabric. Velvet be long pile or short pile, made out of cotton or silk or polyester or wool and is always called velvet. Velveteen can be long pile (though that's harder...) or short pile, and made of any fiber, though cotton is most common. It is possible to tell, by close inspection, which is which, assuming you know where the selvedge is. There is probably a difference in drape, though it is slight. For all practical purposes, you can continue calling short-napped cotton velvet (if you could find such a thing) velveteen, and nobody would care, except me. ;) Emma, textile major wannabe. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 16 23:45:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17273 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 23:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H3V3E14942; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H3V2N28872; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H3KtN26154 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip206.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.206]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6H3Koo15041 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, was: Re: different velvets Message-ID: <3D34823C.10859.F503694@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3D3403DF.5817.D6285E0@localhost> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020716125315.00c97f00@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:29:48 -0700 Status: RO > Most sewing stores in the US have re-made half their fabric space into > craft space. And most of the craft stuff they stock is junky stuff, > or no-talent kits. The quality of the fabric has gone down too. If > Jo-Ann's and Walmart ever routinely had good fabric, they don't now > except by accident. Or a very astute and well educated (textile wise) manager. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 00:46:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18122 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:46:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H4W4E17684; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H4W1N16385; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H4RHN15059 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m108.in-tch.com [216.166.191.108]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6H4DTr12084 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D34F37D.A345581B@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:33:01 -0600 Status: RO Hey, that's interesting. Thanks for explaining it so clearly. --sue Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > brief weaving lesson: Warp threads are the long threads that go the length > of the fabric and are stretched on the loom. Weft (or woof or filling) > threads are the ones that go back and forth from selvedge to selvedge. > > Velvet is a warp-pile fabric. There are extra warp threads that are > looped up between the rows of weft thread and cut. Terrycloth is also > made this way, but the loops are left uncut. > > Velveteen is a weft-pile fabric. There are extra weft threads that are > left as floats (skipping over several warp threads) and cut. Corduroy is > another weft-pile fabric. > > Velvet be long pile or short pile, made out of cotton or silk or polyester > or wool and is always called velvet. > > Velveteen can be long pile (though that's harder...) or short pile, and > made of any fiber, though cotton is most common. > > It is possible to tell, by close inspection, which is which, assuming you > know where the selvedge is. There is probably a difference in drape, > though it is slight. > > For all practical purposes, you can continue calling short-napped cotton > velvet (if you could find such a thing) velveteen, and nobody would care, > except me. ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 02:04:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21103 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 02:04:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H5o3E20785; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 23:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H5o1N07517; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 23:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H5eUN05160 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 23:40:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.f2.1e9a4980 (3842) for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 01:40:20 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.1e9a4980.2a665d44_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Help on Stain Removal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 01:40:20 EDT Status: RO --part1_f2.1e9a4980.2a665d44_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please help! I just finished a new dress and have discovered a stain of unknown origin on the front of the bodice. It looks like some sort of oil, but I'm not sure. The bodice fabric is 100% linen. Recommendations and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Nancy aka Maddalena Salutati --part1_f2.1e9a4980.2a665d44_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please help!  I just finished a new dress and have discovered a stain of unknown origin on the front of the bodice.  It looks like some sort of oil, but I'm not sure.  The bodice fabric is 100% linen.  Recommendations and advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Nancy
aka Maddalena Salutati

 --part1_f2.1e9a4980.2a665d44_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 05:22:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00439 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:22:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H984E27018; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:08:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H983N20683; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6H8qkN17314 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 02:52:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717085245.12198.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:52:45 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help on Stain Removal To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:52:45 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- MaddNancy@aol.com wrote: > Please help! I just finished a new dress and have discovered a stain of > unknown origin on the front of the bodice. It looks like some sort of oil, > but I'm not sure. The bodice fabric is 100% linen. Recommendations and > advice would be greatly appreciated! > > Thanks, > > Nancy > aka Maddalena Salutati Nancy, try Oxi Clean. It works wonders, the only fabric one can't use it on is silk, but linen is n problem, in fact I just managed to get rid of nasty brown stains (caused by a white (!!!) sun blocker) in my linen underdress by just using it as a laundry booster in the machine. It can be dabbed onto the stain and should do the trick. I am sure you can get it in the US too? here it is sold in Asda's and at Lakeland. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 05:48:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01151 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:48:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6H9Y5E27623; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H9Y4N24685; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6H9Q0N22777 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06538.; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:26:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:25:54 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-looking for a book--Help! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6H9Q0N22777 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:25:23 +0100 Status: RO I've searched the database available to us, but no luck. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> macailith@yahoo.com 07/17/02 02:10am >>> Greetings to the list. I'm looking for a book(s) published in 1989 by Marshall Cavendish Ltd called "Die Renaissance." It's at least a 2 volume set (a friend has volume 2). There's no ISBN and no editor listed. It's in German, but I suspect it was published in London. I happened across another book published by Marshall Cavendish Ltd and the city listed was London. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 07:18:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03270 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:18:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HB45E29921; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HB43N13672; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HAxMN12687 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 04:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK78G6FTWG000NRL@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:59:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK78G5FP86000L47@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:59:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:55:25 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:55:21 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:55:21 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] different velvets In-reply-to: <200207141415.g6EEFE407760@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DB8C9E3ECF@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:55:21 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > If it's got to be historically accurate or the pattern demands > something a bit stiff, go for the Acetate-Nylon. I'd say," If it's got to be historically accurate or the pattern demands something a bit stiff, and/or If it's a Renaissance fair that's usually muddy, don't go for either. Go instead for the washable and more breathable curtain-weight cotton velvet, but make sure you pre- wash it on hot before you cut and make anything from it so that it's pre-shrunk. > Some stores sell "velvet needleboards" for ironing on, but the > hook side of Velcro works well too. Place the Velcro strip > hook-side-up atop your ironing board, then lay the seam you wanna > press on top (pile-side-down) and iron gently. Thanks for the tip Gillian! As I use cotton velvet mostly (second- hand curtains are great and cheap too!) I don't really have any problems with ironing on the back of it, but that's a great tip to remember if I happen to be doing something non-historical or for someone who inists on acetate-belend velvet. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 07:31:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03540 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:31:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HBH4E00362; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBH3N16354; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HB3ON13513 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:03:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK78L5APUO000PQ1@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:03:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK78L2HGY2000H7I@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:03:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:59:23 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:59:11 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:59:09 +0000 From: Teddy In-reply-to: <200207141803.g6EI39426939@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DB9CF025AE@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1052 - 6 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:59:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Ok, am I allergic to every period fabric but silk?! Grr... I could > make such wonderfully authentic garb if I didn't get rashes from wool, > linen, mohair/angora, and many of the wild animals they used for fur > trim. Just call me synthetic. > > --Gillian Cotton wasn't on your list, so you could make a substitute for cotton velvet and not be wearing low-breathability synthetics.... as for the fur allergy issue - realistic looking synthetic will probably be your only option there Teddy (who did a trade last year, with someone whose husband has a severe fur allergy - a heap of cotton velvet for a heap of fur she couldn't use because he attends all the events she does.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 07:44:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03839 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:44:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HBU4E00772; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBU3N19228; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:30:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBO6N17842 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK79ASBJQO000SBS@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:23:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK79ANRW9O000QJN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:23:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:20:01 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:19:45 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:19:41 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-reply-to: <200207150431.g6F4VD424737@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DBF4B77B92@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:19:41 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Am I correct in my impression that this is not the state in Britain? > If sewing is considered a specialty skill or hobby, fabric stores > would be considered specialty stores. I don't know about the current National Curriculum, but "Needlework" used to be one of the subjects. I was the only boy who took it right through to the exams, but two others applied to take it for the initial year, though one waas moved out to do Cookery when the class was oversubscribed (and I was annoyed on his bahalf beciase many of the girls only chose needlework because it seemed liek an "easy-option" to fill their timetabels and he had chosen it because he wqs interested, and there wasn't ever a question of one of the *girls* being told to swap to cookery . I heard he went on to become a highly-paid chef, so perhaps it worked out for the best, but even so) Not that I learned anything in those classes (other than making continuous placket openings) that I hadn't already figured out for myself or have actually had a need to use since - and I only just scraped through the final exam with a passing grade despite having kept my sisters and cousins in clothes, party dresses and "posh frocks" for the three years I was doing the classes. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 07:45:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03868 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:45:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HBUAE00782; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBU9N19267; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBOaN17966 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:24:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22716 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2002 11:24:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.194.154]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Jul 2002 11:24:35 -0000 Message-ID: <002901c22d84$5bb4be20$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <3D3403DF.5817.D6285E0@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:23:21 -0400 Status: RO > Jean wrote about England: I remember making a fluffy rabbit at > > Brownies, but somehow it doesn't go on in this country. It's one of > > those things they make you do at school but nobody ever does it at > > home. It's just cultural, I'm not sure why. > > > > I agree, dressmaking nowadays is considered a minority hobby, rather > > than an essential - patchwork and home decorating are on the up, so > > those shops are more common. > > The US is heading in this direction. I think that's why we are losing > so many of our good fabric stores. They are either going home > deco, quilting (which I think is what you mean by patchwork) or > high scale tailoring. That doesn't leave much for the recreational, > historical or cheap home sewer. (snipped) > > I just can't imagine how people survive without sewing - any useful > > thingy I need, I do it with fabric. As I teach Home Ec (now FaCs - Family & Consumer Skills) in Central New York, I know that all students in 6, 7, or 8th grades (about ages 11-13) must get in about 30 weeks of Home Ec, mandated by the state. Few ever see another course in it, especially since so many High School Courses are now mandated for them. Most of the courses now focus on how to havea a balanced diet, how to deal with family & friends, childcare skills, how to read advertisements & consumer awareness, how to manage finances, etc. Sewing skills are limited to making something very small. I am the only teacher I have yet met in New York State who drags her kids through sewing a sweatshirt, or any garment at all! But then, I am one of very, very few TEACHERS who loves to sew. And apparently one of the few who can do basic maintenance on the machines, so that I still have 14 working old Singers - the simple kind built for schools back in the 70s, that are all metal, and are fairly hard for the kids to destroy. I have a good working relation with a fairly local Bernina shop that repairs them - he believes that he will get more customers if they learn to sew somewhere, so he helps me out fairly cheaply. He tells me a lot about what goes on in classrooms in a fairly large area, even if I don't get it by being our local representative for the Mohawk Valley and going to a lot of meetings! Most classrooms I have seen might have 3 sewing machines, which means that you have about 10 kids per machine. I have them learn to embroider their initials in the tags of t-shirts before we tie-dye them. I justify that under the How to do Laundry unit, specifically titled as the How to Avoid Pink Underwear lesson. Then we learn to use a machine, then we sew drawstring bags. THAT's always fun - watching the boys, especially, pull on the double strings to close the bag, then open it, then close it..... They get amazed at the mechanics of this thing they made. Then we do a pincushion in the shape of a star, which is graded onlooking like a star or like a blob It is useful for throwing games, mostly, but lets me get in how to sew things CLOSED by hand. Then we either make a hat (school colors, of course!), or I drag them through a sweatshirt. Even I skipped the sweatshirts last year when they put in 9 kids who had come out of their own enclosed classroom with a special ed teacher and an aid, but the school put them in my class (without telling me they were coming!) and told me to deal with it, they should learn my stuff. I agree with it, but they put them in on top of my regular class size, so I had 9 more kids than I had seats, or books, or anything for. And those 9 kids were not used to being in with other students, or being in a regular class at all. So I found myself skipping a lot of stuff that I PUSH my kids to achieve. Sewing projects take a lot of time when you are dealing with anywhere from 12 to 26 kids (we have small classes, it is a very small school), and it is a real art to get kids to accomplish things, when they all want your individual attention about every step of the way. Not to mention that you have to let them handle lots of very dangerous small objects. Seam rippers can disappear even faster than pins, needles, and scissors! By the way, the seam ripper is the only object in my classroom to have a name - Mr. Seam Ripper becomes everyone's best friend (although some have the classic love-hate relationship with him). But it does take time, and A LOT OF EFFORT & Patience. I don't think it will be making a comeback anytime soon. So it is up to everyone who DOES sew to put their art out where people see it, and want to learn to do that. Rowena --==% `%%%, | ' ) `%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | / '%, \] /----'. < `%, | | `>> > | | ///` / ( //( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 07:53:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04041 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:53:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HBdBE01056; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBd2N21312; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBSWN18855 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK79G2FG40000PZD@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:28:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK79FOHD06000ODM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:27:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:24:03 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:23:24 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:23:22 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-reply-to: <200207150431.g6F4VD424737@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DC043F6E13@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:23:22 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > So now I have a print with a really nice irregular grey pattern behind > the white areas. My question: How do I keep it this way? Should I > expect that the dye will continue to run on further washings, or will > it stay put? Should I just dry-clean the finished garment? I don't > want to run it through the wash with a dye magnet, because I want to > keep the streaking that's already there. If you were over here I'd suggest you run it through the washer with a packet of the dye-stabiliser that dylon sell... that would fix the dye that has run and that hasn't run already and keep it as close tohow it is aleady as you're likely to get it. Do the brands of dye over there have similar products? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 07:58:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04135 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:58:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HBhIE01205; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:43:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBhHN22274; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:43:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HBUnN19405 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717113048.67300.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:30:48 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1052 - 6 msgs To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <1DB9CF025AE@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:30:48 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > > Ok, am I allergic to every period fabric but silk?! Grr... I could > > make such wonderfully authentic garb if I didn't get rashes from wool, > > linen, mohair/angora, and many of the wild animals they used for fur > > trim. Just call me synthetic. > > > > --Gillian > > Cotton wasn't on your list, so you could make a substitute for > cotton velvet and not be wearing low-breathability synthetics.... as > for the fur allergy issue - realistic looking synthetic will probably be > your only option there You could make under garments from cotton and line wool garments with cotton so that it doesn't touch your skin. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 07:58:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04139 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:58:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HBhME01216; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBhLN22304; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:43:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HBX0N19859 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717113300.68218.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:33:00 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] different velvets To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <1DB8C9E3ECF@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:33:00 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > Thanks for the tip Gillian! As I use cotton velvet mostly (second- > hand curtains are great and cheap too!) I don't really have any > problems with ironing on the back of it, I don't either, but what I use when I iron the seams of a thicker cotton velvet is using a brush, I have some biggies, which are shoe brushes (it's important they are natural bristles or they melt!) and had never been used, from the 60s. Works a treat too. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 08:14:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04178 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:14:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HC09E01772; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:00:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HC03N26313; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HBg7N22049 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK79X8B8Z4000QID@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:41:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK79X3VZ1U000QJN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:41:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:38:06 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:37:17 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:37:07 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re:[h-cost] Fabric shops in the UK In-reply-to: <200207151105.g6FB5s419398@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DC3F7E271E@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:37:07 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > It's getting more and more difficult to find decent stuff in general > shopping areas. > > I'm extremely lucky, as about a mile from where I live there is a > fabulous fabric shop "The Shuttle". If any of you are ever in the > Bradford, West Yorkshire, You also have Whaleys (Bradford) Ltd.... I buy all my calico from them, plus canvas and other fabrics (their LRK88 cotton is lovely stuff for anything that needs a very thin and floaty cotton). Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 08:20:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04197 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HC4YE01944; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:04:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HC4XN27416; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:04:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HBjWN22854 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:45:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717114532.5763.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:45:32 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002901c22d84$5bb4be20$01fea8c0@vaio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:45:32 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Rowena wrote: > > As I teach Home Ec (now FaCs - Family & Consumer Skills) in Central New > York, I know that all students in 6, 7, or 8th grades (about ages 11-13) > must get in about 30 weeks of Home Ec, mandated by the state. If I may say so, I am amazed that something like this is taught in the US, as I haven't come across anything like that in my German NorthRhine Westphalian 13 years school career (graduated in 88 to go to Uni), because Home Ed was regarded as being backwards and interfering or something like that. I guess that was because Northrhine Westphalia was a very liberal left government and it was/is totally uncool to teach something like that. *laughs* I find it very fascinating to hear that these things are taught and that indeed sewing is occasionally taught beyond primary school age. I remember we did a bit of cord making and easy embroidery and things like that in primary school (born in 69) for boys and girls, and fotball for boys and girls too. :-) That was it though, and when I went to grammar school at the age of ten, I was a 'paradise bird' when I got to puberty, because I could sew (taught by my mum) and myself all these extraordinary clothes that had this slightly different knack to anything one could buy. Admttedly I started sewing for me instead of my Barbie because my mum refused to by the designer labels for me that were so in, and I thought HA! I know just the way to be ahead of the game and 'different' and thus on a par with the kids whose parents did agree to spend all that money on a blooming label by making something myself (hand printed tops, painted and/or dyed trousers, appliqued coats and skirts, extraordinary fabrics, laced tight trousers, hand knit wildly patterend jumpers etc etc) and it worked. Got for the first time the friendly label of the extravagant nutter, and floated happily along with the 'rich kids' who envied ME. What a funny world!!! I still wear big baggy shirts mostly to work from the re-enactor's market or self made to work, mostly because I hate the clothes one can buy in England (sorry, fellow UK'ers but the fashion in this country is appalling, ugly, synthetic, stretchy skin tight stuff in horrid colours for skinny 14 year olds *shudder* ;-) When I actually bought a frilly black shirt in Etam the other week because it was cotton and marked down to 8 pounds my colleagues squealed 'Oh my god, she is wearing a shirt with BUTTONS!' *grins* you should hearthem screeching when I wore a bogstandard t-shirt underneath an open baggy laced shirt... Nicole - with a cold at home and not wanting to sew because of feeling rotten. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 08:58:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04367 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:58:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HCi3E03398; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HCi1N07649; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21302.mail.yahoo.com (web21302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.210]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HCcJN06139 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:38:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717123818.51014.qmail@web21302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:38:18 PDT From: kj green Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-looking for a book--Help! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Thanks for looking. I do appreciate your time and trouble. I really think that I'm never going to find it... kate --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > I've searched the database available to us, but no > luck. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> macailith@yahoo.com 07/17/02 02:10am >>> > Greetings to the list. > > I'm looking for a book(s) published in 1989 by > Marshall Cavendish Ltd called "Die Renaissance." > It's > at least a 2 volume set (a friend has volume 2). > There's no ISBN and no editor listed. > > It's in German, but I suspect it was published in > London. I happened across another book published by > Marshall Cavendish Ltd and the city listed was > London. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 09:56:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04601 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:56:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HDeQE06012; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:40:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HDeON25385; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10308.mail.yahoo.com (web10308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HDW0N22662 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717133159.6946.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.120.56.45] by web10308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:31:59 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207171204.g6HC4VN27405@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-369017195-1026912719=:6731" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: different velvets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:31:59 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-369017195-1026912719=:6731 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quick note on velvet boards (which I'm pretty sure John Lewis sell). Obviously, they're used to avoid crushing the pile when pressing velvets/velours/velveteens/anything else with a pile. My Nana (trained as a tailor in the 40s) taught me to use a big fluffy towel, laid over the ironing board, (white or cream, to avoid problems with colour bleed). Provided the pile on the towel is deep enough, and the velvet is pressed face down, it does the same job, in preventing the velvet pile from being crushed. Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-369017195-1026912719=:6731 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Quick note on velvet boards (which I'm pretty sure John Lewis sell).  Obviously, they're used to avoid crushing the pile when pressing velvets/velours/velveteens/anything else with a pile.

My Nana (trained as a tailor in the 40s) taught me to use a big fluffy towel, laid over the ironing board, (white or cream, to avoid problems with colour bleed).  Provided the pile on the towel is deep enough, and the velvet is pressed face down, it does the same job, in preventing the velvet pile from being crushed.

Debbie.


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-369017195-1026912719=:6731-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 09:56:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04605 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:56:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HDeiE06045; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:40:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HDehN25489; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HDX6N22988 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a240.in-tch.com [66.62.107.40]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6HDJGr13364 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:19:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D357352.9C44D141@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, References: <20020717114532.5763.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:38:26 -0600 Status: RO Sorry to hear that you're home sick...colds are no fun! When I'm feeling that punk, I like to curl up on the couch with an afghan and a cat or two, and a pot of hot tea, and look through all my costuming and needlework books (I have several bookcases of them), and reacquaint myself with the ones I haven't seen in a while....Gives me ideas for new outfits, and lets me lean back and take a nap when I need to, too. I would imagine that learning-sewing experiences depend on when and where in the U.S. a given individual grew up. I was born in 1960, and spent most of my growing-up years on a farm in a largely rural state (Montana), and my schooling was in a small town nearby. When I went through Jr. High (grades 7-8), we got a "quarter" (one-third of the school year) of mandatory Shop or HomeEc. Girls were required to take the HomeEc, and boys, the Shop. I don't recall anyone being allowed to take the other sex's class. We also all got a quarter of typing, and a quarter of something else I don't remember . ISTR that one could go on, and take additional classes in shop or HomeEc, but that one class was pretty much mandatory. My baby sister (16 years younger than I am) went through the same school system, and by her time, it'd become co-ed, and more along the "life skills" line.... I found the HomeEc pretty frustrating--it was mostly cooking-oriented, and I'd been cooking at home for several years by that point (started when I was about 6). For girls who'd never learned at home, though, it was probably not such a bad deal. I actually did my first embroidery in the Girl Scouts when I was 9, and learned to sew on the sewing machine a few years later in 4-H Club. (I don't know if there are non-US equivalents to the 4-H Clubs in the U.S....they're oriented to kids who grow up on farms and ranches, and involve learning a variety of related skills--different kinds of cooking, sewing, all sorts of livestock (from chickens to beef, depending on what you wanted to do), leadership skills, etc.). My first "official" garment was a green velvet mini skirt *laughs* The leaders thought I was nuts, and that it was way too difficult....but I did just fine and have been sewing ever since, although mostly quilts (patchwork) and historical costuming. I occasionally do "mundane" sewing for myself, but who's got the time when the blackwork is calling? or the gothic fitted gown? or the Norse apron dress? (and spending the evening drooling over various sack-backed gowns doesn't help either! ) --Sue, in beastly hot and smoky Montana, looking forward to a cool, green England in 6 weeks.... N Kipar wrote: > > --- Rowena wrote: > > > > As I teach Home Ec (now FaCs - Family & Consumer Skills) in Central New > > York, I know that all students in 6, 7, or 8th grades (about ages 11-13) > > must get in about 30 weeks of Home Ec, mandated by the state. > > If I may say so, I am amazed that something like this is taught in the US, as I > haven't come across anything like that in my German NorthRhine Westphalian 13 > years school career (graduated in 88 to go to Uni), because Home Ed was > regarded as being backwards and interfering or something like that. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 10:23:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04859 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:23:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HE8KE07827; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:08:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HE8IN05557; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HE04N02324 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK7EQZ9T40000RXU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:59:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK7EQY9F0K000SBV@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:59:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:55:55 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:55:39 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:55:30 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] different velvets In-reply-to: <200207160119.g6G1JBN16526@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DE8DDF4105@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:55:30 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > In the areas I've been, all the Asian stores sell 100% polyester > > only. > > And often calling it "palace silk" making you think you're getting > real silk. ;) Many of them, here in England at any rat, have no idea what the fibre content is, or what constitues accuracy in the labelling or what they tell you when you buy. I've given up shopping in such places becaise too many times I've had to go back to complain about something sold as 100% natural fibre (I always ask before I buy to make sure) that turns out to be a blend when I do a burn test, or throw it in the machine to dye it.... So far I've had responses to my complaints ranging from an exchange for more fabric (none of which they can guarnatee are natural fibre), arguments that it doesn't matter what the fibre content is as no-one but the manufacturer could possibly be interested and it looks pretty anyway through refunding the money (but nothing to cover the cost of the wasted dye or my wasted time in buying the stuff, dying it and then taking it back to complain). It's just too much hassle for me to bother taking the time to check those shops for the occasional rare worth-buying find. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 10:35:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04915 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HEL4E08807; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HEL3N10839; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HEB6N06669 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717141106.52640.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:11:06 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D357352.9C44D141@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:11:06 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Sorry to hear that you're home sick...colds are no fun! When I'm feeling > that punk, I like to curl up on the couch with an afghan and a cat or > two, and a pot of hot tea, It's too warm for all that! I hate summer colds. *whines* Thanks Sue for the sympathy. :-) and look through all my costuming and > needlework books (I have several bookcases of them), and reacquaint > myself with the ones I haven't seen in a while....Gives me ideas for new > outfits, and lets me lean back and take a nap when I need to, too. Well, I decided that finally I should get up from my seat and do something useful like ironing my linens. here I am, happily spraying away onto y undredress, thinking I am using spray starch, wondering about the perfumed smell and the squeaky way the iron runs over it until the last bits when I discovered I used Febreeze instead of spray starch. ACK! braindead indeed. > and historical costuming. I occasionally do "mundane" sewing for I find that there were lots of very nice and useful sewing magazines in germany back in the 80s (Burda publishing house) with superb fashionable patterns. Most of all 'Burda International'. I think most were just petered out and stopped. *sigh* > --Sue, in beastly hot and smoky Montana, looking forward to a cool, > green England in 6 weeks.... Ha!!! I could be anything in six weeks, in fact it could be anything each day. snow, sun, heat, fog, ice, rain, gales, mud, just about anything :-))) The continent has a climate, England has weather. Oh how true this is I learned in the last years. Nicole - refusing to do anything 'useful' today and taking up Sue's suggestion. But which of the dozens and dozens of books to peruse? :-) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 11:14:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05121 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:14:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HF0CE12779; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HF0AN29406; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:00:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HEnLN24096 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK7GH19LC0000S1U@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:48:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK7GG19D2E000TNJ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:48:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:44:22 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:43:54 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:43:49 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing in UK(WAS: different velvets) In-reply-to: <200207161801.g6GI1xN11514@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DF5BC77D47@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:43:49 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > and they would make something for the same purpose in their own way > - I make a bag, they make a box. But sewing takes less cleaning up > after! Jean, it's obvious that you have never seen me sewing Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 11:19:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05227 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:19:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HF4YE13193; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:04:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HF4XN01731; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:04:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HEqrN25759 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK7GLJ8Z0G000IZI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:52:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK7GL9UWAC000UEG@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:52:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:48:37 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:47:43 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:47:37 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Heat in England (WAS: Fabric Prices) In-reply-to: <200207162147.g6GLliN20867@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DF6C025673@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:47:37 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Teddy wrote: > > The diamonds are about 2.5 inches high from point to point and the > > trellis around them about 3 inches and it just looked so sumptuos > > that I couldn't resist the chance to get a linen (oh so cool and > > comfy to wear in hot weather despite Robin's teasing about not > > needing it in England...) that doesn't look like a linen. > > She obviously wasn't there when I was there. It wasn't the day we > went to Hampton Court with you, but a couple of the other days were > in the upper 80s (I don't remember what that was in centigrade as I > translated it into fahrenheit so that I could figure out why I was > so miserable.) It was very muggy and hot, but it was a complete > surprise to the residents as well as us "furiners" since it was > only late April or early May. We do get hot weather in the summer (as well as unseasonally early in the year like when you visited) and It takes more getting used to for people who *aren't* used to it than for people who live in places where very hot weather is something they're more acclimatised to.... or so I reckon. > (It was a very short skirt and my research assistant kept > complaining about how the guys were ogling me on the Underground. Next time you'll have to pack more of them! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 11:23:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05298 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:23:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HF92E13682; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HF91N03977; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HEulN27621 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:56:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK7GQJ2028000S0O@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:56:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK7GQIMGLY000SHX@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:56:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:52:49 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:52:12 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:52:10 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cope on display in V&A (WAS: different velvets) In-reply-to: <200207162147.g6GLliN20867@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DF7F2C1A3D@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:52:10 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > Don't they have a (13th century I think) embroidered red velvet cope > > on display that was cut up and made into another garment (tunicle or > > dalamtic?) later, then was pieced back together into a cope? > > Are you thinking of the red cloak on display in the costume area at > the V&A which used to be a skirt? It is heavily embroidered. But it's > 16/17th C and in pretty good shape. Nope this is a cope that has been re-made as a cope after it was cut up for something else - displayed, along with several others, spread flat in a wall-case in the ecclesiastical/religious artefacts section rather than in the textiles display area. > It would not be unusual, however, for the ecclesiastic copes to be > used to make other ecclesiastic garments (such as dalmatics or the > like.) The details are hazy but it was definately something else it had been cut up for. > > To me it looked just like the worn red velvet of the seats you used > > to get in old cinemas... well the bits not covered in embroidery did > > anyway. > > That does sound more like a cope, but I don't remember a red cope > at the V&A. (I'll have to look through my pictures as I got shots > of everyone of the copes on display, the the dismay of my research > assistant.) You must have a picture of it then... Of cousre, you'll then find it was actually a dark blue brocade altercloth and that I've just misremebered the details.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 11:27:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05347 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:27:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HFDAE14084; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HFD9N06237; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HF5oN02401 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:05:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK7H1QGFG0000KRL@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:05:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK7H1P1NCA000SHX@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:05:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:01:50 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:00:58 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.93) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:00:54 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) In-reply-to: <200207170121.g6H1LBN21378@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1DFA48D5F02@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:00:54 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Must be local-water thing, or something. The tansy-dyed wools done by > my friends were very lovely shades of an almost olive-green. The > silks were similar, but lighter. --sue That sounds much nicer. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 11:36:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05400 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:36:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HFM4E14971; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HFM2N10832; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f122.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HF9TN04250 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:09:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:09:23 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:09:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2002 15:09:23.0744 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF4BDA00:01C22DA3] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:09:23 +0000 Status: RO But the very best thing is still if you can learn to sew from your mom :-) >As I teach Home Ec (now FaCs - Family & Consumer Skills) in Central New >York, I know that all students in 6, 7, or 8th grades (about ages 11-13) >must get in about 30 weeks of Home Ec, mandated by the state. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 11:49:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05538 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:49:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HFYeE16308; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:34:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HFYcN17930; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HFFoN07667 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:15:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6HFGx226045 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:16:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207171516.g6HFGx226045@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute In-Reply-To: <000c01c22cd4$dac49380$55c98693@creighton.edu> "from Cynthia Abel at Jul 16, 2002 09:27:02 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO they mailed me and told me the book was in japanese. was the stateside one? I've only seen scans from it, but I thought it was in translation? .heather. > At least the price hasn't gone up, even though the cover might have > changed(or is the cover on the website actually the box for the video?). I > bought mine a good five years ago and paid about $45 for it. But my > bookstore(whose employee went the extra mile in return for a peek at the > book)found a stateside source. This book is just priceless!! > > BTW, does anyone on the list know a rough conversion from Yen to US$ and if > the video works in US VCR's In Japanese or English, to view some of what's > in the book on video--for us that have frame advance or slow mo features on > our VCRs--to get to view the actual costumes in possibly more than one view. > Yum, Yum! > > Cindy Abel > ILL Coordinator > Health Sciences Library > Creighton University > 2500 California Plaza > Omaha NE 68178-0210 > Phone: 402. 280-5144 > Fax: 402.280-5134 > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 11:53:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05569 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:53:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HFd5E16785; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HFd4N20253; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f203.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.203]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HFQaN13374 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:26:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:26:30 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:26:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-looking for a book--Help! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2002 15:26:30.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[536BA5E0:01C22DA6] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:26:30 +0000 Status: RO Marshall Cavendish is the editor, btw... they make reference books. There website is here: www.marshallcavendish.com I'm thinking that your book could be one of the volumes of one of their encyclopedias, such as History of the Modern World http://www.marshallcavendish.com/mcc/container.asp?series_id=1&imprint=Marshall+Cavendish+Reference+Books&element=display%2Easp&sku=0%2D7614%2D7147%2D2 or even Great Artists of the Western Worldhttp://www.marshallcavendish.com/mcc/container.asp?series_id=1&imprint=Marshall+Cavendish+Reference+Books&element=display%2Easp&sku=0%2D86307%2D743%2D9 So you might want to search for the whole collection of books instead of just the one volume you need. Anyway, good luck! > > >>> macailith@yahoo.com 07/17/02 02:10am >>> > > Greetings to the list. > > > > I'm looking for a book(s) published in 1989 by > > Marshall Cavendish Ltd called "Die Renaissance." > > It's > > at least a 2 volume set (a friend has volume 2). > > There's no ISBN and no editor listed. > > > > It's in German, but I suspect it was published in > > London. I happened across another book published by > > Marshall Cavendish Ltd and the city listed was > > London. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 11:53:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05573 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:53:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HFdBE16809; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HFd9N20334; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:39:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HFSwN14789 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:28:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 89FE310F209 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006901c22da6$75738040$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <1DF5BC77D47@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing in UK(WAS: different velvets) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:27:27 -0400 Status: RO I was thinking the same thing. I sew at the kitchen table, and it tends to look like there has been been a massive explosion at a thread factory! But I did finish my lavender brocade Italian!! I put it up on eBay though--it's beautiful. but it's synthetic, and I just don't want to wear it now. You all have infected me! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing in UK(WAS: different velvets) > > and they would make something for the same purpose in their own way > > - I make a bag, they make a box. But sewing takes less cleaning up > > after! > > Jean, it's obvious that you have never seen me sewing > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 12:19:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05758 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:19:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HG56E19688; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HG53N05323; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f133.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.133]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HFs4N28981 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:53:59 -0700 Received: from 205.163.11.113 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:53:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [205.163.11.113] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2002 15:53:59.0642 (UTC) FILETIME=[2A417BA0:01C22DAA] Subject: [h-cost] Help on Stain Removal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:53:59 +0000 Status: RO Oxi-Clean is a modern day miracle! You can get it in the US at Wal-mart for pretty cheap. It gets everything out! I swear by the stuff! It can also be used on old fabrics that have yellowed over time with great success. It's gentle and really gets the stain out of all colors. "Gets your whites whiter and your brights brighter!" I use it as an additive to all my loads of wash, a tough stain can be treated by making a paste and applying directly and can be used to soak items overnight for ease of washing the next day. It seems to work best is warm water, but still works fine in cooler temps. This is one "As seen on TV" items that is really a good thing. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 12:20:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05768 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:20:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HG5YE19769; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:05:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HG5XN05640; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HFsoN29416 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:54:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717155450.35787.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:54:50 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing in UK(WAS: different velvets) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <006901c22da6$75738040$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:54:50 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > > But I did finish my lavender brocade Italian!! I put it up on eBay > though--it's beautiful. but it's synthetic, and I just don't want to wear it > now. You all have infected me! > > Dianne Dianne, send us the link, I would love to see it! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 12:58:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05978 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:58:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HGi9E23616; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:44:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGi7N28649; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGYfN23511 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip190.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.190]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6HGYbo28956 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:34:37 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Heat in England (WAS: Fabric Prices) Message-ID: <3D353C36.11985.1226CB84@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200207162147.g6GLliN20867@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: <1DF6C025673@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:43:18 -0700 Status: RO > > (It was a very short skirt and my research assistant kept > > complaining about how the guys were ogling me on the Underground. > > Next time you'll have to pack more of them! Honey, that was 30# ago and how many years ago! I can't fit in the little darlings anymore and it would look like mutton dressed up as lamb to try!! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 12:58:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05980 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:58:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HGiIE23643; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGiHN28745; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGYkN23534 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:34:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip190.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.190]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6HGYgo28974 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:34:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, Message-ID: <3D353C37.21567.1226CC33@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002901c22d84$5bb4be20$01fea8c0@vaio> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:43:19 -0700 Status: RO > And apparently one > of the few who can do basic maintenance on the machines, so that I > still have 14 working old Singers - the simple kind built for schools > back in the 70s, that are all metal, and are fairly hard for the kids > to destroy. Probably 60s. Singer came out with the Touch-N-sew (also known as Touchy-sew) in the mid-60s. They quit making all metal machines about that time. (Damn them!) Even the schools had the Touchy-sews. In 1966 we had all new Touchy-sews and 2 of the old metal Singers. They got rid of the last of them within 2 years and got more of the Touchy-sews. Mom actually bought a TouchySew for me when I took that class (so I wouldn't touch her beloved White). It was the model one up from the base version we had at school. I used it for years and would probably still have it except that was what my ex-husband was using to bash open a trunk when the SWAT team came to take him out of the house he was trashing. (I had been divorced from him for 2 1/2 years at that time.) Fortunately, he thought the brand new Pfaff was my roommates or he would have destroyed it too. Instead he just pulled over the bookshelf it was on. > I justify that under the How to do Laundry > unit, specifically titled as the How to Avoid Pink Underwear lesson. I hope your students appreciate you! You teach them what they need to know but manage to make it fun at the same time. (No, I won't sing the Mary Poppins "Spoonful of sugar" nursery cleaning song. No, I won't or it will be with me all day!) Too bad you couldn't have just the special ed kids as a special class. I bet they'd enjoy it (unless they were severe and profound) the way you describe teaching it. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:03:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06011 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:03:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HGmOE24139; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:48:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGmNN01188; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGYmN23560 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:34:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip190.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.190]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6HGYio28982 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cope on display in V&A (WAS: different velvets) Message-ID: <3D353C36.28805.1226CB31@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200207162147.g6GLliN20867@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: <1DF7F2C1A3D@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:43:18 -0700 Status: RO > > That does sound more like a cope, but I don't remember a red cope at > > the V&A. (I'll have to look through my pictures as I got shots of > > everyone of the copes on display, the the dismay of my research > > assistant.) > > You must have a picture of it then... Of cousre, you'll then find it > was actually a dark blue brocade altercloth and that I've just > misremebered the details.... > Teddy Oh, Teddy darling, you could do us one even better. *You*, who live so close to the actual source, could go to the V&A and look at it and tell us. That way we *know* that we aren't mixing up copes. ;) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:07:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06036 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:07:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HGqnE24680; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:52:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGqlN03854; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:52:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGcNN25500 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:38:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.152.10f82917 (5711) for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m26.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.16) with ESMTP id MAILINID44-0717123813; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:38:13 -0400 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <027145D6.217EDD3F.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Kendra's 1870 petticoat question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:38:13 -0400 Status: RO A pattern company - Truly Victorian - run by Heather and Laura McNaughton, make a bustle petticoat pattern that they have taught at Costume College in Van Nuys, CA. It has a smooth front with the bustle cage wire at the back with an optional ruffle overlay designed specifically for those 1870-1880 costumes. They also have a plain petticoat version. Their web site is www.trulyvictorian.com. They are both fantastic women, extremely knowledgeable and great teachers!(I made one in their class and it came out just as they said!) Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:12:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06047 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:12:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HGv4E25260; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGv3N06454; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGljN00838 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:47:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17Urxl-0001V5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:47:41 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:47:41 -0400 Status: RO > If I may say so, I am amazed that something like this is taught in the US, as I > haven't come across anything like that in my German NorthRhine Westphalian 13 > years school career (graduated in 88 to go to Uni), because Home Ed was > regarded as being backwards and interfering or something like that. I guess > that was because Northrhine Westphalia was a very liberal left government and > it was/is totally uncool to teach something like that. *laughs* I'm going to add my voice to this sentiment, but the difference is that I'm a Californian! When I was in school (lessee, that was about 1983- 1996) sewing was definately not taught, neither in the private school I attended for kindergarden through 2nd grade, nor the public schools I attended after that. The emphasis was always on math and sciences, and during the early 90's, nearly all art programs were cut from California schools, making it even more rare to have something like Home Ec or Family Sciences or whatever they call it these days. You had your pic of a general art class which taught painting and drawing, or you could chose a music course (either orchestra, band or choir) and if your school was really well funded, you had the option of theater and dance classes. But no sewing. I learned by virtue of having a mother who learned from her mother, etc. Basically, once I discovered renaissance faires, she made it clear to me that if I wanted a costume, I had to sew it myself. That got me motivated right quick! I was also a Girl Scout, and that was about the only enviornment outside of my own home where I was exposed to sewing. Because, like, if you're lost in the wilderness, you're always going to have a sewing machine with you to make potholders, right? Sheesh. I had to learn survival skills from my mom as well (and now I can start fires with just a pile of dry leaves and two sticks! My mom rocks!). > I find it very fascinating to hear that these things are taught and that indeed > sewing is occasionally taught beyond primary school age. I remember we did a > bit of cord making and easy embroidery and things like that in primary school > (born in 69) for boys and girls, and fotball for boys and girls too. :-) I came into the world during the age of equal oppertunity between genders, which meant everyone had the pleasure of getting pelted in dodge ball, beaned with a softball and generally ridiculed by other students for not being sports inclined. Ah, love that gender equality thing. I'm hearing that schools are starting to clue into the hell of forced competitive sports in elementary schools and are starting to do away with games like dodge ball (the bane of my childhood existence) because they do more emotional damage than physical enhancement. And speaking as someone who once was a very small, very thin little girl who was more of a dreamer than a sports goddess, it's about damn time! -- Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Absence of evidence, isn't necessarily evidence of absence." -Carl Sagan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:15:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06058 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:15:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HH19E25629; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HH18N08676; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nemesis.systems.pipex.net (nemesis.systems.pipex.net [62.190.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGndN01962 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:49:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bella (usergh072.dsl.pipex.com [62.190.175.72]) by nemesis.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 49A5716000662 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:49:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <002501c22db1$f0b43b40$0101a8c0@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:49:38 +0100 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > But the very best thing is still if you can learn to sew from your mom :-) > I can't resist this subject any longer: all your comments have made me realise how lucky I was in my schooldays ! They were so different that looking back feels like seeing a piece of living history. My school was in a village high in the Pennines, an area of lonely hills in northern England. (We relied on at least one extra week's holiday a year when the snow was so deep that the school had to be closed.) It took everyone, boys and girls, between the ages of five and fifteen: although a new scheme of primary and secondary schools had been introduced by the government, (with the break at eleven years), they were still building a new secondary school in the next nearest town in my day. As our numbers were small, we gathered into groups for most lessons that were wider than the single year of age which seems to be the norm for classes now, although the boys did not do needlework and the girls did not do woodwork. It was pleasant to work in groups like that because when I was young the older ones would help me with difficulties and encourage me, and when I was older I found that teaching something to someone else was by far the best way to learn it properly for myself. Every Thursday afternoon, we would sit by the windows, chatting quietly - which was an unusual liberty - and make 'useful' items. At first we learnt simple things: I remember embroidering a canvas dressing-table mat with brightly coloured wools, and making a pin cushion, (which is still in my sewing box). Later, there was a gingham apron, and matching long sleeve protectors for when you were washing dishes. How bored I got with the long french seams up the sides of a nightdress, (all handsewn), which had to be taken out and redone over and over again, until I got them straight enough, and the stitches even enough. Still, it has proved useful training since. Later, my parents moved house and I was lucky enough to win a scholarship to a girls-only grammar school. It was run by nuns, so the needlework was definitely maintained at a high standard. I remember a whole year when we did all kinds of repairs - probably one of the most useful things I have ever studied. Once in our teens, we made a blouse, and then a skirt. Eventually we were considered sensible enough to progress to the use of the two precious sewing machines in the needlework room. In my last year we were allowed to choose what we wanted to make, and I shocked my teacher by opting for a lined woollen cloak, although it was a fashion item, not a historic reproduction. To my amazement, I discovered that there was a whole new world of tailoring techniques to acquire. Subsequent learning has been from books, and from this excellent group. But we certainly seem to have covered far more needlework than most of you have done. It was fortunate that I did, because my mother couldn't sew for toffee. She told me that she was so bad at needlework when she was at school that she was put on to leatherwork instead: I had to do all the family sewing as soon as I could manage it. However, I know she could knit, because I remember a fairisle jumper; although a neighbour taught me the basics of knitting, (because my mother's work kept herfar too busy), and I picked up the rest from a pattern book. Somehow, I never seem to have learned to crochet, but I enjoy making bobbin lace now - again self-taught. Looking back, I am surprised that we continued to do needlework right through school, although - because I was put in an 'academic' stream, we never did any other sorts of "domestic science". When I left school, I still didn't know how to make a cup of instant coffee, let alone how to shop for and cook a meal, or run a house, or care for children, (Perhaps unconsciously they expected that we would all become nuns, or maybe - it has just occurred to me - that was all they knew !) Still, they had taught me how to learn subjects from books, and that has sufficed. My sister is a teacher of ten-to-eleven-year-olds, and - as far as I can tell - the pressure is all on learning "the three r's". This is probably just as well because, although my sister was a very successful scientist before she turned to teaching, she inherited my mother's sewing genes. However, I think that we learned reading and tables and so on too, yet had more peaceful and happy schooldays. I regret that her pupils will never enjoy sitting and sewing, (nor going for nature walks), as we did. And how will they make the leap into understanding the construction of early clothing ? How did you all manage to do it ? yours sincerely, Linda Walton (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). P.S. Sorry this has turned out to be so long - nostalgia seems to have had me in its grip . . . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:20:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06076 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HH5TE26120; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:05:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HH5RN11198; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:05:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGgKN27699 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgT481sKWNcmgSib8s2Mm4uxA043FzhgMA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G7XD39EN; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:39:42 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] English fabric shops Message-ID: <20020717.113815.-281093.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-9 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:38:14 -0500 Status: RO It took me a few days to dig the bag out, but I found a really nice little shop in London which I jokingly call 'Plunkett and McLean' due to the name's similarity to the movie. Actually the name is MacCulloch and Wallis Ltd. It's located on a little side street off of Oxford Street called Dering Street. It's between the Bond Street and the Oxford Circus Tube stations. It's got nice fabrics and the second floor has a terrific notions section while the third floor has lots of millinery supplies. They even sell corset laces! Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:21:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06088 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:21:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HH6OE26275; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HH6NN11777; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:06:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11504.mail.yahoo.com (web11504.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HGq1N03394 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717165201.25734.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.42.208.182] by web11504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:52:01 PDT From: Megan Irvine Subject: Burda Mag alive and well, was Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020717141106.52640.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- N Kipar wrote: [snip] > I find that there were lots of very nice and useful sewing > magazines in germany > back in the 80s (Burda publishing house) with superb fashionable > patterns. Most > of all 'Burda International'. I think most were just petered out > and stopped. > *sigh* [snip] Burda is alive and well and translated into English! AND, there is a new Burda magazine for beginning sewers with easier patterns and more detailed instructions in it (although I think it only is published quarterly or something like that). I have been subscribed to Burda mag for a couple of years now and I find the patterns fit me much better than the large American pattern companies. If you are in the US, you can subscribe via http://www.glpnews.com. If you have never seen Burda magazine you should try it!!! Just a satisfied costumer/customer... mirv ===== Megan Irvine http://www.darkthreads.com Personal log: http://darkthreads.blogspot.com "No ship will ever take you away from yourself."--Constantine Cavafy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:25:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06097 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:25:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHB4E26848; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHB3N14446; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HGwON07172 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:58:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip115.access-one.com [198.247.160.115]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6HGwMR32462 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:58:22 -0400 Message-ID: <002e01c22db2$97899500$73a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kendra's 1870 petticoat question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:54:16 -0500 Status: RO yes, but that pattern is too full at the top for late 1870's(natural form dresses) the construction of wire bustles in that particular time frame is totally different from anything I've seen on the web pattern wise. The plain petticoat might be a better choice... but if you have a skirt pattern it would be simple to just add the back ruffles for a petticoat made to your skirt shape. MJ . It has a smooth front with the bustle cage wire at the back with an optional ruffle overlay designed specifically for those 1870-1880 costumes. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:30:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06124 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:30:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHFOE27305; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHFMN16978; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:15:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HH1rN09137 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020717170147.QNTR24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:01:47 +0000 Message-ID: <008101c22db3$a11e0410$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <200207171516.g6HFGx226045@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:01:44 -0700 Status: RO Yes, there's definitely an English-language version -- I have a library copy in my house right now! Having the Japanese version wouldn't be TOO bad, as the really cool thing about the book is all of the amazing color photos. But there is a really interesting article by Janet Arnold on 18th c. dress construction that would be a shame to miss. - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute > they mailed me and told me the book was in japanese. > was the stateside one? I've only seen scans from it, but I thought it > was in translation? > > .heather. > > > > At least the price hasn't gone up, even though the cover might have > > changed(or is the cover on the website actually the box for the video?). I > > bought mine a good five years ago and paid about $45 for it. But my > > bookstore(whose employee went the extra mile in return for a peek at the > > book)found a stateside source. This book is just priceless!! > > > > BTW, does anyone on the list know a rough conversion from Yen to US$ and if > > the video works in US VCR's In Japanese or English, to view some of what's > > in the book on video--for us that have frame advance or slow mo features on > > our VCRs--to get to view the actual costumes in possibly more than one view. > > Yum, Yum! > > > > Cindy Abel > > ILL Coordinator > > Health Sciences Library > > Creighton University > > 2500 California Plaza > > Omaha NE 68178-0210 > > Phone: 402. 280-5144 > > Fax: 402.280-5134 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:34:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06131 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:34:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHJTE27724; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:19:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHJSN19339; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:19:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HH5cN11293 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:05:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020717170533.QFOT26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:05:33 +0000 Message-ID: <008901c22db4$27aa7180$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <003a01c22d25$01c32000$49a0f7c6@marnadav> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:05:30 -0700 Status: RO Thanks to everyone for the feedback on 1870's petticoats! Marna Jean, can you describe this again? I'm having trouble picturing what you've described. > some of the petticoats from that era had casings in the back panel to shirr them up against the legs. The dress I'm making is probably from about 1876 (it's the Janet Arnold c. 1874-77 dress -- looking at fashion plates, it looks like '75 or '76 to me). That's good advice re: moving the bustle pad down -- I was definitely planning on a flat front with ruffles down the back. > I like a tier of ruffles down the back and a small bustle pad placed at the low hip instead of the waistline for most dresses in that era. I would also > suggest the front panel of the petticoat be smooth with the ruffles confined to the side and back panels only - but it depends on when in the late > 70's you are talking-75 up to 1877 they were a bit fuller with 78-79 being pretty slim, and starting to get fuller again in 1880. The ties aren't > supposed to "bind" your legs together mearly pull the front of the dress flat and you don't want it showing through that you are bipedal! *mercy!* I have seen the Truly Victorian natural form petticoat pattern -- I'll have to look at it more closely at Costume College! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:34:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06135 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:34:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHJXE27742; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHJWN19387; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HH66N11577 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p210.directcon.net [209.233.107.210]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6HH5xqd009630; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:06:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020717101129.00c57600@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute In-Reply-To: <200207171516.g6HFGx226045@jabberwock.wonderland.com> References: <000c01c22cd4$dac49380$55c98693@creighton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:11:29 -0700 Status: RO >> BTW, does anyone on the list know a rough conversion from Yen to US$ Try the Universal Currency Converter here: http://www.xe.com/ucc/ Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:39:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06187 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:39:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHP3E28428; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHP2N22474; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HHBZN14831 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717171135.98606.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:11:35 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Burda Mag alive and well, was Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020717165201.25734.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:11:35 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Megan Irvine > Burda is alive and well and translated into English! Ohhh, I have to check how to get it in England! If all else fails I could ask my mum to send it over I guess, but I hate asking them all the time or my friends, because it is pretty impossible to send money to and fro the continent. I know it sounds daft but it's true. English cheques areonly accepted in England. bank transfers are exorbitantly expensive. BRING IN THE EURO!!!!!! megan, have you tried their specials? the trousers/blouses/skirts ones? they come quarterly. do they still do the burda international? Burda's fit is superb, I agree! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:54:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06415 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:54:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHc4E29923; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHc3N00543; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHTVN25119 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-relay03.mac.com (smtp-relay03-en1 [10.13.10.222]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g6HHTT8J024107 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay03.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g6HHTOac020885 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GZELWZ00.CRL for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:29:23 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 From: Agnes G To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute - Revolution in Fashion carefully desctibed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:29:54 -0700 Status: RO The one I have is definitely in English - it is printed by Abbeville Press. The first 24 pages are text - there is a forward by the French ambassador to Japan (8 lines) a preface by the director of the National museum of modern art in Kyoto (the parent organization of the costume institute) an Introduction by the director of the costume institute and an essay by Jean Starobinski, a professor at the University of Geneva, and art critic on Rococo and Neoclassicism - this essay has some black and white prints of rococo art and architecture. There is next an essay by Philippe Duboy, Architecture Historian, Paris which also has some black and white reproductions. Then the "meat" of the book starts with full color plates of garments on mannequins, some close up and detail shots until page 108 - these have no text at all on the page expect the page number - the language the book is printed in would make no difference. Following the full color section there are more essays, first one by Akiko Fukai, the co-curator of the Kyoto costume institute called Rococo and Neoclassical clothing. It makes some interesting observations and has some black and white illustrations. Next is an essay called "One More Desire: Fashion Leaders of a Dramatic Era" It discusses Pompadour, Marie Antoinette and Josephine. It has black and white prints of portraits of them and of Vigee-Lebrun. The next essay is by Toshio Horii, Professor of European History, Osaka entitled "From an Age of Refinement to the world of the Tempest. It discusses the changes in society and dress that accompany the social and political revolution. There is one black and white print in there. Pages 126-134 present an essay by Janet Arnold on the cut and construction of Women's clothes in the Eighteenth Century. This essay includes three of her pattern drawings line in her big flat books but they are printed without the grid lines - they are sill useful, they inculde the Sack or robe a la francsois, the Robe Anglaise and an 1810 Muslin gown. Martin Kamer, costume historian and collector, Zug, Switzerland chimes in last with a three page essay on Brilliant Adornments - the jewelry of the period. There are no illustrations in his essay. Pages 138 - 153 are the plate commentary - there are lots of small black and white photos of the same garments we see in the color plates here, with extensive information about many of the items, including dates, and who/what museum owns the items. There are also some additional period illustrations in this section that help show the garments in their original context. Pages 154-155 contain information on the garments that were in the exhibition but were not included in the color plates. There are eight garments shown in black and white. Pages 156-161 have a very interesting chronology and page 162 contains a glossary continuing on to half of page 163 which then has the index up to page 165. Page 166 has the credits of the show. So - the pictures are worth a thousand words but the words aren't too bad either. I would probably buy the book in Japanese if I didn't already have it in English, then I would check out a copy from the library and read the English parts, make notes on the interesting stuff and keep the notes with the Japanese copy. But, I have already done that with numerous non-english fashion books that are "photo heavy" - if that is your style, then you must get this book. I hope this helped and hasn't bored you all silly. Agnes > From: Heather Meadows > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:16:59 -0700 (PDT) > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute > > they mailed me and told me the book was in japanese. > was the stateside one? I've only seen scans from it, but I thought it > was in translation? > > .heather. > > >> At least the price hasn't gone up, even though the cover might have >> changed(or is the cover on the website actually the box for the video?). I >> bought mine a good five years ago and paid about $45 for it. But my >> bookstore(whose employee went the extra mile in return for a peek at the >> book)found a stateside source. This book is just priceless!! >> >> BTW, does anyone on the list know a rough conversion from Yen to US$ and if >> the video works in US VCR's In Japanese or English, to view some of what's >> in the book on video--for us that have frame advance or slow mo features on >> our VCRs--to get to view the actual costumes in possibly more than one view. >> Yum, Yum! >> >> Cindy Abel >> ILL Coordinator >> Health Sciences Library >> Creighton University >> 2500 California Plaza >> Omaha NE 68178-0210 >> Phone: 402. 280-5144 >> Fax: 402.280-5134 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 13:56:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06452 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:56:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHgHE00488; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHgGN02971; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:42:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HHU3N25452 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:30:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717173002.49130.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:30:02 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002501c22db1$f0b43b40$0101a8c0@bella> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:30:02 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Linda Walton wrote: > *snippage* Thanks Linda for sharing that, it was fascinating! I grew up in school during the 80s (oh my, wasn't the music great and the hair styles silly, including my own :-))) gender equality at home and at school wasn't even an issue, I guess that germany was ahead, or maybe it was the part where I came from? That's more likely. I wish though instead of just doing nothing they would have taught both the guys and the gals needlework AND shop. I learned needlework all from my mum and shop all from my dad. Yessir, I can and did and do build my own furniture and DIY. > enjoy sitting and sewing, (nor going for nature walks), as we did. And how > will they make the leap into understanding the construction of early > clothing ? How did you all manage to do it ? With my mum's help, but the rest came via the academic approach. Books, books, studying extant garments, learning how to 'read' and evaluate sources, etc. It came through school and through Uni in combination with my mum's skills she taught me. Nowadays I am better in some things than my mum (she cannot make anything without a properly fitting pattern) and others I'll never reach her. (her tailoring techniques are IMMACULATE! But that's my mum, always perfect :-)) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:01:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06482 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:01:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHkXE00916; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHkXN05323; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHVSN26296 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.16.22440cb4 (3958) for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:31:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <16.22440cb4.2a6703e4@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_16.22440cb4.2a6703e4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: 73 Online Fabric Stores Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:31:16 EDT Status: RO --part1_16.22440cb4.2a6703e4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roscelin, thanks for that awesome link! There are many stores on that list that were not yet in my Favorite Places. This will greatly expand my sources. I wonder if someone could make a page where we could all add our supply sites to create a "master list" of costuming supplies? --Gillian, who doesn't know a darn thing about web design --part1_16.22440cb4.2a6703e4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Roscelin, thanks for that awesome link!  There are many stores on that list that were not yet in my Favorite Places.  This will greatly expand my sources. 

I wonder if someone could make a page where we could all add our supply sites to create a "master list" of costuming supplies?

--Gillian, who doesn't know a darn thing about web design

 --part1_16.22440cb4.2a6703e4_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:02:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06486 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:02:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHkRE00883; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHkPN05232; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:46:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHMIN21017 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:22:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.179.b6b08af (3958) for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:22:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <179.b6b08af.2a6701bb@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_179.b6b08af.2a6701bb_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:22:03 EDT Status: RO --part1_179.b6b08af.2a6701bb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << We could take "home economics" or sewing classes in school. (Boys were more likely to take "shop" classes that included woodworking and similar skills. Today I gather that the names of the classes are less gender-oriented, and students are welcome to take whichever they want, but I suspect some noticeable gender division remains in class makeup.)>> I graduated in '93 in NY. In middle school/junior high students of both sexes took 2 mandatory classes: Home Economics and Tech. Home-Ec taught basic cooking and sewing, while Tech was architecture, electronic circuits, basic machines, and technical drawing. There was only one class level of each, so there was no opportunity to continue your education in that area. So, for my school at least, the gender make-up was exactly the same as the gender make-up of the school itself. Now I can carve an aerodynamic CO2 car from a block of wood, while my brother can sew on his own buttons. LOL Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how many of us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting the declining home sewing industry... --Gillian the seamstress --part1_179.b6b08af.2a6701bb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << We
could take "home economics" or sewing classes in school. (Boys were more
likely to take "shop" classes that included woodworking and similar
skills. Today I gather that the names of the classes are less
gender-oriented, and students are welcome to take whichever they want, but
I suspect some noticeable gender division remains in class makeup.)>>

I graduated in '93 in NY.  In middle school/junior high students of both sexes took 2 mandatory classes: Home Economics and Tech.  Home-Ec taught basic cooking and sewing, while Tech was architecture, electronic circuits, basic machines, and technical drawing.  There was only one class level of each, so there was no opportunity to continue your education in that area.  So, for my school at least, the gender make-up was exactly the same as the gender make-up of the school itself.  Now I can carve an aerodynamic CO2 car from a block of wood, while my brother can sew on his own buttons. LOL

Can everybody add their own experiences?  I'd be curious to see how many of us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting the declining home sewing industry...

--Gillian the seamstress --part1_179.b6b08af.2a6701bb_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:05:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06493 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:05:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHp3E01353; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHp2N07704; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHclN00985 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:38:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip115.access-one.com [198.247.160.115]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6HHcjR07263 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:38:45 -0400 Message-ID: <004c01c22db7$fa4e5d60$73a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:32:39 -0500 Status: RO Do you have Victorian Fashions and costumes from Harper's bazar1867-98 , Stella Blum, ed.? if so look on page 146 view a- this petticoat shows a casing right above the knee line to hold the fullness back- it could then be let out for pressing/starching. Basically if you are using Janet Arnold 74-77 pattern you will definitely need some "fluff" underneath your tie back strings to get the desired shape (I would say this dress is definitely 1876 or 77 because rounding the armscye to the shoulder really didn't become popular until then-- or at least that is the year the fashion magazines start showing and mentioning it- I'm big on correct seamlines) You can use the same front and side panels as the skirt, and make the back panel shorter (basically remove the pleating on the sides) Then starting at the hipline put tiers of ruffles that will cover the sideback and back panels. If you want it somewhat "convertible" place a casing on the petticoat in the same manner underneath the ruffles, or place ties in the petticoat itself to hold it back. The ideal position for a casing would be right at the top edge of a ruffle, so that it would serve to gather it in, in a bit more controlled manner. Still not sure I'm making sense- but if you can get to that book I think the picture will make up for my failings in description. MJ > >Marna Jean, can you describe this again? I'm having trouble picturing what >you've described. > >! > >- Kendra > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:05:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06498 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:05:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHpCE01385; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHpAN07827; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHd4N01173 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1486210F3AF for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005501c22db8$9c4b5410$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <20020717155450.35787.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] photos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:37:23 -0400 Status: RO I just threw up a very quick web page for my photos. (I only have the onde dress up so far!) http://diannestucki.tripod.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing in UK(WAS: different velvets) > --- Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > > > But I did finish my lavender brocade Italian!! I put it up on eBay > > though--it's beautiful. but it's synthetic, and I just don't want to wear it > > now. You all have infected me! > > > > Dianne > > Dianne, send us the link, I would love to see it! > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:10:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06517 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:10:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HHtKE01800; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHtFN10077; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:55:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HHgtN03317 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:42:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717174254.28290.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:42:54 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] English fabric shops To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020717.113815.-281093.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:42:54 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > It took me a few days to dig the bag out, but I found a really nice > little shop in London which I jokingly call 'Plunkett and McLean' due to > the name's similarity to the movie. Actually the name is MacCulloch and > Wallis Ltd. It's located on a little side street off of Oxford Street > called Dering Street. It's between the Bond Street and the Oxford Circus > Tube stations. It's got nice fabrics and the second floor has a terrific > notions section while the third floor has lots of millinery supplies. > They even sell corset laces! > > > Karen Uhmm.. may I give a word of warning? the prices are exorbitantly exaggerated and I found that the staff was most arrogant. BUT that may only have been my two bad experiences, maybe they just had two bad days. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:16:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06550 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:16:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HI1qE02519; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:01:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HI1oN14001; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:01:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHZRN28979 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-71.gti.net [208.216.115.71]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id BEC0A358E2 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D35AADD.CB57B2B9@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute References: <200207171516.g6HFGx226045@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <008101c22db3$a11e0410$befc8218@WERNTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:35:25 -0400 Status: RO Seriously, if I were you I would hold out for the English version. Besides the pictures, there is much info that I'm sure you would want to read. I have used "Revolution" as a reference for writing papers in grad school; one was on 18th c. fashion & one on Rococo silk. IMHO, it's a really good source of info & pictures; a must-have. I paid $85 for mine new when it first came out. It's absolutely worth it I'm tellin ya... Deb > Having the Japanese version wouldn't be TOO bad, as the really cool thing > about the book is all of the amazing color photos. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:29:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06590 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:29:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HIENE03898; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIELN21307; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HHutN11040 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:56:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717175655.18768.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:56:55 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] photos To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <005501c22db8$9c4b5410$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:56:55 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > I just threw up a very quick web page for my photos. (I only have the onde > dress up so far!) > > http://diannestucki.tripod.com/ That's a lovely gown Dianne! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:29:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06594 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:29:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HIEZE03916; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIEYN21419; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:14:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.47]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHftN02772 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.204.67]) by mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020717174149.JSHN15849.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:41:49 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020717103833.00a39250@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute In-Reply-To: <200207171719.g6HHJdN19464@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:41:39 -0700 Status: RO That's weird. I wonder why they told you that? The copy I got was all in English, not a word or character of Japanese anywhere to be seen. Julie At 10:19 AM 7/17/2002, you wrote: >Message: 1 >From: Heather Meadows >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute >To: h-costume@indra.com >Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:16:59 -0700 (PDT) >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > >they mailed me and told me the book was in japanese. >was the stateside one? I've only seen scans from it, but I thought it >was in translation? > >.heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:29:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06598 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:29:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HIEcE03932; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIEcN21457; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glisan.hevanet.com (glisan.hevanet.com [198.5.254.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HHi4N03918 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:44:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hevanet.com (hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by glisan.hevanet.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6HHi3105077 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:44:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Wanda Pease To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-looking for a book--Help! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO If the is the pair of books I have it was published as a catalogue for an exhibition in Heidelberg back in 1989. This may be why there is no ISBN number. There weren't many copies printed, but it does have some lovely pictures. Regina Romsey On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I've searched the database available to us, but no luck. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> macailith@yahoo.com 07/17/02 02:10am >>> > Greetings to the list. > > I'm looking for a book(s) published in 1989 by > Marshall Cavendish Ltd called "Die Renaissance." It's > at least a 2 volume set (a friend has volume 2). > There's no ISBN and no editor listed. > > It's in German, but I suspect it was published in > London. I happened across another book published by > Marshall Cavendish Ltd and the city listed was London. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:37:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06627 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:37:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HILEE04703; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:21:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HILCN25382; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HI94N18277 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.35.29d0c241 (3958) for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:08:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <35.29d0c241.2a670cba@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_35.29d0c241.2a670cba_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT Allergies vs Reactions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:08:58 EDT Status: RO --part1_35.29d0c241.2a670cba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> This happened to me as a young girl. The first time I had penicillin, I got the rash -- but my mother thought it was a fever/heat rash. The second time I had it I apparently got rushed to the ER. I've had some other rather deadly allergic reactions in my lifetime -- especially to perfumes -- so I'm kinda chicken to press my luck with something that gives me a rash the first time. Hence my fabric problem -- to get back on topic... If I know American linens give me hives every time I wear them, I'm a bit timid about trying some labeled "organic Irish." I mean, what if it is not the American processing? What if our own over-processing is the only thing keeping me from a more deadly reaction? --Gillian --part1_35.29d0c241.2a670cba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<The first stage penicillin reaction is the fine rash, I had
it too.
But that's just the sensitivity stage.

    Next time, watch out.  You may very well have an
anaphylactic reaction----hives, swelling--including major
swelling shut of the airway!----and extremely irregular
heart beat.
    In other words, you can be dead in 5 or 10 minutes, and it
won't be fun.>>
   

This happened to me as a young girl.  The first time I had penicillin, I got the rash -- but my mother thought it was a fever/heat rash.  The second time I had it I apparently got rushed to the ER.  I've had some other rather deadly allergic reactions in my lifetime -- especially to perfumes -- so I'm kinda chicken to press my luck with something that gives me a rash the first time.  Hence my fabric problem -- to get back on topic...  If I know American linens give me hives every time I wear them, I'm a bit timid about trying some labeled "organic Irish."  I mean, what if it is not the American processing?  What if our own over-processing is the only thing keeping me from a more deadly reaction?

--Gillian --part1_35.29d0c241.2a670cba_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 14:57:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06709 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:57:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HIgNE06442; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIgMN06649; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx09.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx09.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.19]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIH1N23004 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx09.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 41671970 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:16:53 -0400 Message-ID: <00c201c22dbe$0b342c80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <179.b6b08af.2a6701bb@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:16:16 -0500 Status: RO > > Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how many of > us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting the > declining home sewing industry... > > --Gillian the seamstress > Well, when I was in jr. high (1984-85) we had 1 semester of Home Ec and 1 of Shop. Each semester was cut into 2 quarters. When in HomeEc, I got a quarter of cooking, which was rather fun and somewhat useful. It was after that that I think Mom started to let me help in the kitchen. The other quarter was sewing. I distinctly remember having to sew a pillow in the shape of a letter (I picked K to give to my sister, whose birthday was coming up, I think). I'm pretty certain we had to learn other stuff, but I can only really remember the pillow. However, the summer before starting high school, my mother passed by a local fabric shop in the mall where my dad's shop was and saw a schoolmate of mine learning to sew from the manager there. The deal was she could use the machines in the shop if she bought what she needed there. (The manager was a family friend of hers, I think). Mom asked if I could get the same deal, so I spent a few days a week in the fabric store picking out patterns and fabric and learning how to sew! That was much more useful than the pillow. After that I really didn't do much sewing until I started college. I can remember the surprise in my mother's voice when I asked for a sewing machine for Christmas :-) Now the majority of my sewing is historical - there's no time to make mundane clothes! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:01:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06742 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:01:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HIl6E06931; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIl5N09517; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:47:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f218.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.218]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIbIN04068 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:37:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:37:13 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:37:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute - Revolution in Fashion carefully desctibed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2002 18:37:13.0686 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7F5FF60:01C22DC0] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:37:13 +0000 Status: RO I'll buy the book, whatever the language. I want the IMAGES. The text I'll photocopy from the copy I got in the library, if I must. The really, really important thing is the images. Although it is good to know which parts of the costumes are originals and which parts are reproductions (a lot of the shoes are reproductions, for example, and so are most of the gloves). >So - the pictures are worth a thousand words but the words aren't too bad >either. I would probably buy the book in Japanese if I didn't already have >it in English, then I would check out a copy from the library and read the >English parts, make notes on the interesting stuff and keep the notes with >the Japanese copy. But, I have already done that with numerous non-english >fashion books that are "photo heavy" - if that is your style, then you must >get this book. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:14:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06813 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:14:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJ06E08161; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJ04N16973; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:00:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIp7N11869 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17UttC-0005hd-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:51:07 +0100 Message-ID: <6eygcqC+sbN9IwLg@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing in UK(WAS: different velvets) References: <200207161801.g6GI1xN11514@net.indra.com> <1DF5BC77D47@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <1DF5BC77D47@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:45:18 +0100 Status: RO Teddy wrote >> and they would make something for the same purpose in their own way >> - I make a bag, they make a box. But sewing takes less cleaning up >> after! > > Jean, it's obvious that you have never seen me sewing > >Teddy Not unless your sewing propels dust into every part of the house like power sanding does! -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:23:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06882 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:23:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJ8ZE08894; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJ8XN22236; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIpDN11908 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:51:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17UttH-0005i0-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:51:12 +0100 Message-ID: <0OejYRCPsbN9IwKt@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets References: <200207171204.g6HC4VN27405@net.indra.com> <20020717133159.6946.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20020717133159.6946.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:44:31 +0100 Status: RO Debbie Lough wrote >Quick note on velvet boards (which I'm pretty sure John Lewis sell).  >Obviously, they're used to avoid crushing the pile when pressing >velvets/velours/velveteens/anything else with a pile. > >My Nana (trained as a tailor in the 40s) taught me to use a big fluffy towel, >laid over the ironing board, (white or cream, to avoid problems with colour >bleed).  Provided the pile on the towel is deep enough, and the velvet is >pressed face down, it does the same job, in preventing the velvet pile from >being crushed. > >Debbie. > Quick and dirty version - another bit of velvet, especially that disgusting yellow shade of curtains you find in charity shops! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:23:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06886 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:23:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJ8fE08911; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJ8eN22337; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIpDN11907 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:51:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17UttH-0005hz-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:51:11 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, References: <002901c22d84$5bb4be20$01fea8c0@vaio> <20020717114532.5763.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20020717114532.5763.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:42:35 +0100 Status: RO N Kipar wrote > --- Rowena wrote: > > >> As I teach Home Ec (now FaCs - Family & Consumer Skills) in Central New >> York, I know that all students in 6, 7, or 8th grades (about ages 11-13) >> must get in about 30 weeks of Home Ec, mandated by the state. > >If I may say so, I am amazed that something like this is taught in the US, as I >haven't come across anything like that in my German NorthRhine Westphalian 13 >years school career (graduated in 88 to go to Uni), because Home Ed was >regarded as being backwards and interfering or something like that. I guess >that was because Northrhine Westphalia was a very liberal left government and >it was/is totally uncool to teach something like that. *laughs* >I find it very fascinating to hear that these things are taught and that indeed >sewing is occasionally taught beyond primary school age. I remember we did a >bit of cord making and easy embroidery and things like that in primary school >(born in 69) for boys and girls, and fotball for boys and girls too. :-) We did a schools day at the recent event, and I was really surprised how interested the girls, particularly, were in my luceting. We pushed women's work quite a lot as important stuff that needs to be done, and the whole management aspect of being left to keep the manor while the men go off to war, but I was surprised how they gravitated to learn what we were doing. I don't think they do much real handwork in schools now - mostly consumer education and fashion type stuff. >I still wear big baggy shirts mostly to work from the re-enactor's market or >self made to work, mostly because I hate the clothes one can buy in England >(sorry, fellow UK'ers but the fashion in this country is appalling, ugly, >synthetic, stretchy skin tight stuff in horrid colours for skinny 14 year olds >*shudder* ;-) Let's see, is there anyone on this list, in the UK, who actually *likes* current fashion?? It's not the impression I've got from people. I find myself wishing I could wear Norman to work, but it might not give the best impression, as a civil servant! And then I wouldn't get promoted to a high enough salary to wear all the linen, wool and silk I covet :-) Jean >When I actually bought a frilly black shirt in Etam the other >week because it was cotton and marked down to 8 pounds my colleagues squealed >'Oh my god, she is wearing a shirt with BUTTONS!' >*grins* >you should hearthem screeching when I wore a bogstandard t-shirt underneath an >open baggy laced shirt... > >Nicole - with a cold at home and not wanting to sew because of feeling rotten. > >===== >Nicole Kipar M.A. >Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs >Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: marquis@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:23:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06890 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:23:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJ8rE08953; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJ8qN22479; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIqiN12724 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZE00B16PRVU4@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:52:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 1 In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020717113427.00a8df00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:45:33 -0700 Status: RO >But the very best thing is still if you can learn to sew from your mom :-) > > >>As I teach Home Ec (now FaCs - Family & Consumer Skills) in Central New >>York, I know that all students in 6, 7, or 8th grades (about ages 11-13) >>must get in about 30 weeks of Home Ec, mandated by the state. Neither one of my kids, here in California, had to take any Home Ec classes. One refused to learn to sew, preferring to wheedle me into doing it, and the other one bugging me to teach her to crochet, and 'next time I see you, lets sew some doll clothes'. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:23:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06895 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:23:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJ8uE08972; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJ8tN22515; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HIqjN12734 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZE00B16PRVU4@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:52:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020717114511.00c9dab0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:52:25 -0700 Status: RO >I came into the world during the age of equal oppertunity between >genders, which meant everyone had the pleasure of getting pelted in >dodge ball, beaned with a softball and generally ridiculed by other >students for not being sports inclined. Ah, love that gender equality >thing. I'm hearing that schools are starting to clue into the hell of >forced competitive sports in elementary schools and are starting to do >away with games like dodge ball (the bane of my childhood existence) >because they do more emotional damage than physical enhancement. And >speaking as someone who once was a very small, very thin little girl >who was more of a dreamer than a sports goddess, it's about damn time! Where I came into the (California) world before that time. My high school councillor told me I could do anything I wanted, as long as it wasn't wood shop, metal shop, or auto shop. We had the mandatory Home Ec classes, in junior high, where I wasn't allowed to sew as well as I knew how because it was in advance of what the rest of the class was doing. The boys couldn't take cooking or sewing at this time either. All I remember from the cooking unit was that once I had to figure out the cost of two stewed prunes to the nearest tenth of a cent. To this day I'm not much of a cook. But I sewed my first historical, hat, purse, and dress, in 1971. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:29:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06919 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:28:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJECE09437; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJEBN25590; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21309.mail.yahoo.com (web21309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.254]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HJ4BN19563 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717190410.37216.qmail@web21309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:04:10 PDT From: kj green Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-looking for a book--Help! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Thank you for the information! I have some other questions: Do you remember if there was a house associated with the show? Or, who managed/directed the show? Was it School of History at Heidelberg or School of Art? Were there paperbacks? Any help would be most appreciated! kate --- Wanda Pease wrote: > If the is the pair of books I have it was published > as a catalogue for an > exhibition in Heidelberg back in 1989. This may be > why there is no ISBN > number. There weren't many copies > printed, but it does have some lovely pictures. > > Regina Romsey > > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > I've searched the database available to us, but no > luck. > > > > Kate Bunting > > Library, University of Derby > > > > >>> macailith@yahoo.com 07/17/02 02:10am >>> > > Greetings to the list. > > > > I'm looking for a book(s) published in 1989 by > > Marshall Cavendish Ltd called "Die Renaissance." > It's > > at least a 2 volume set (a friend has volume 2). > > There's no ISBN and no editor listed. > > > > It's in German, but I suspect it was published in > > London. I happened across another book published > by > > Marshall Cavendish Ltd and the city listed was > London. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:29:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06924 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:29:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJE5E09414; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJE3N25486; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJ2vN18808 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgT481sKWNcmpBCJ9REVUkIagP8OCDlaPQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G7XM66AL; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:01:06 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] English fabric shops Message-ID: <20020717.140003.-281093.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-16,18-43 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:59:42 -0500 Status: RO I will confess that I don't shop there on a regular basis- that whole trans-Atlantic thng is so annoying- but the couple of times I have been there I have had reasonable help (I didn't need much, perhaps if I had, I'd have a better idea of how friendly they are/not) and the prices seemed in line. They sell high-end fabric so I expect to pay for it. Maybe I wasn't doing the mental currency conversion properly or maybe I just don't realize the price I can get them from at other places? Still, I found that they had many of the items I was interested in buying for prices I didn't mind paying so, all in all, I'm pretty happy with them. Karen On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:42:54 +0100 (BST) =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= writes: > > Uhmm.. may I give a word of warning? the prices are exorbitantly > exaggerated > and I found that the staff was most arrogant. BUT that may only have > been my > two bad experiences, maybe they just had two bad days. > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:33:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06944 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:33:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJIHE09821; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJIGN28139; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:18:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJ8UN22187 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip32.access-one.com [198.247.160.32]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6HJ8RR25079 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:08:27 -0400 Message-ID: <003b01c22dc4$6d331760$20a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT Allergies vs Reactions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01C22D9A.7648EF20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:01:35 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C22D9A.7648EF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know about linen- but wool processing commercially is very = harsh- first it is "carbonized" in a mild acid bath to remove vegetable = matter, then it has to be "rehydrated" before it is fit to use. Linen = in itself can cause allergic reactions in some in hand processing- the = processing (retting, hackling, combing) releases tiny particles into the = air that can actually cause a "black lung" (you know the disease the = coal miners got?) type of disease in those who process it frequently. = 'Tho this isn't a problem with just wearing it. I have to wear a mask = when hackling flax, but can spin it with no problem without causing = allergic reactions. (In fact my 1840's dowry wheel is dressed with it = now) I have found many people can touch/wear hand processed wool, that = thought they were allergic, but if you are allergic to all sorts of = fur/hair- then I don't think that would help. I'm not sure if it would = be the fiber itself on the linen, or the processing- If you could get = your hands on a hank of flax it might help you decide- but can = understand your hesitation. Most hand processed fibers are quite pricey-so silk may be your cheapest = route, although some rayons make very good silk substitutes- notice I = said SOME of them- as the spin/weave structure has to be the same. = Chemically rayon is a "regenerated" cellulose fiber - made to make use = of unspinnable cellulose particles and if spun and woven the same way = can look great. Acetate is also "manufactured" or "modified" from = cellulose fibers which also gives it a better look than polyester or = nylon which are basically thermoplastics. I've seen some nice fabrics in = cotton/acetate that look quite good and were washable (despite what it = said on the bolt). So perhaps you aren't confined to "just" cotton- and = still have a nice look. MJ Hence my fabric problem -- to get back on topic... If I know = American linens give me hives every time I wear them, I'm a bit timid = about trying some labeled "organic Irish." I mean, what if it is not = the American processing? What if our own over-processing is the only = thing keeping me from a more deadly reaction? --Gillian=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C22D9A.7648EF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't know about linen- but wool = processing=20 commercially is very harsh-  first it is "carbonized" in a mild = acid bath=20 to remove vegetable matter, then it has to be "rehydrated" before  = it is=20 fit to use. Linen in itself can cause allergic reactions in some in hand = processing- the processing (retting, hackling, combing) releases tiny = particles=20 into the air that can actually cause a "black lung" (you know the = disease the=20 coal miners got?) type of disease in those who process  it = frequently. 'Tho=20 this isn't a problem with just wearing it. I have to wear a mask=20 when hackling flax, but can spin it with no problem without = causing=20 allergic reactions. (In fact my 1840's dowry wheel is dressed with = it now)=20 I have found many people can touch/wear hand processed wool, that = thought they=20 were allergic, but if you are allergic to all sorts of fur/hair- then I = don't=20 think that would help. I'm not sure if it would be the fiber itself on = the=20 linen, or the processing- If you could get your hands on  a hank of = flax =20 it might help you decide- but can understand your = hesitation.
 
Most hand processed fibers are quite = pricey-so=20 silk may be your cheapest route, although some rayons make very good = silk=20 substitutes- notice I said SOME of them- as the spin/weave structure has = to be=20 the same. Chemically rayon is a  "regenerated" cellulose = fiber - made=20 to make use of unspinnable cellulose particles and if spun and = woven the=20 same way can look great. Acetate is also "manufactured" or "modified" = from=20 cellulose fibers which also gives it a better look than polyester or = nylon which=20 are basically thermoplastics. I've seen some nice fabrics in = cotton/acetate=20 that look quite good and were washable (despite what it said on the = bolt). So=20 perhaps you aren't confined to "just" cotton- and still have a nice=20 look.
MJ
 
 =20 Hence my fabric problem -- to get back on topic...  If I know = American=20 linens give me hives every time I wear them, I'm a bit timid about = trying some=20 labeled "organic Irish."  I mean, what if it is not the American=20 processing?  What if our own over-processing is the only thing = keeping me=20 from a more deadly reaction?

--Gillian=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C22D9A.7648EF20-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:37:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06966 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:37:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJMRE10175; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJMQN00828; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJ9IN22746 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.8.2963adc2 (3958) for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:09:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <8.2963adc2.2a671ad4@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_8.2963adc2.2a671ad4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Sewing in UK(WAS: different velvets) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:09:08 EDT Status: RO --part1_8.2963adc2.2a671ad4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > and they would make something for the same purpose in their own way > - I make a bag, they make a box. But sewing takes less cleaning up > after! Jean, it's obvious that you have never seen me sewing Teddy> Nor me! I get in trouble with my fiance' all the time because my sewing begins to overflow out of my sewing room. Not to mention all the cut threads that get tracked across our burgundy carpets when I leave the sewing room for breaks, to answer the phone, etc. I make much less mess when I carve and sand wood, because I do it over a trash bag cut open like a tarp that gets thrown away afterwards. --Gillian --part1_8.2963adc2.2a671ad4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> and they would make something for the same purpose in their own way
> - I make a bag, they make a box. But sewing takes less cleaning up
> after!

<laughs!>  Jean, it's obvious that you have never seen me sewing

Teddy>


Nor me!  I get in trouble with my fiance' all the time because my sewing begins to overflow out of my sewing room.  Not to mention all the cut threads that get tracked across our burgundy carpets when I leave the sewing room for breaks, to answer the phone, etc.  I make much less mess when I carve and sand wood, because I do it over a trash bag cut open like a tarp that gets thrown away afterwards.

--Gillian --part1_8.2963adc2.2a671ad4_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:50:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07012 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJZEE11354; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJZCN08119; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g6HJMwt01151 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:22:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Message-ID: <20020717132257.C2909@net.indra.com> References: <179.b6b08af.2a6701bb@aol.com> <00c201c22dbe$0b342c80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00c201c22dbe$0b342c80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:22:58 -0600 Status: RO When I was in Jr High (grades 7-8), you either took shop or Home Ec. Unsurprisingly, it was mostly divided by gender. Some girls took shop, but no boys took Home Ec. Each of the two years was basically the same, but advancing on previous skills. 1/3 homemaking and health (laundry, table setting, balancing a check book, shopping, meal planning, baby care, etc, and Sex Education), 1/3 cooking, and 1/3 sewing. I had already learned to sew from my mom, so I was a bit bored at first with the sewing. In the first year, we made something simple - a backpack. I might even still have it, since it was denim with a zipper and held up really well. Very simple design of a closed rectangle that folded over with a zipper in the middle crease and straps on one half of the outside. In the second year, we made a garment. I chose a simple darted skirt pattern of about 4 pieces. Many of the other girls chose patterns for "Gunny Sax" brand skirts. "Gunny Sax" dresses were all the rage in 1976-80, and girls wore them to proms a lot. They were very frilly and had ruffles and gathers all over the place. My best friend's Gunny Sax skirt was, I'm not kidding, something like 23 pieces. I was done my sewing project in about a week, with 2 weeks left to go. I spent the next two weeks helping all the other girls with their skirts, and still many of them never finished them. In high school I started making stage costumes, and I made Halloween costumes for friends in college. A few years after that, I became an SCA garb merchant. Now I just sew for my friends and family again, and for the occasional stage production (the last was Gilbert & Sullivan's THE GONDOLIERS for MIT last April). I'm blessed to live in Boston, home of many good fabric stores, and I buy from SCA merchants (many have very little markup since they have low overhead). ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:50:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07032 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJZRE11387; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:35:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJZQN08268; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJG5N26731 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-65.59.81.183.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [65.59.81.183]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6HJG4F49218 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:16:04 -0400 Message-ID: <003401c22dc6$9d911220$b7513b41@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <20020717085245.12198.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help on Stain Removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:17:37 -0400 Status: RO You can usually find it at Walmart or Target, at least in Florida. We love the stuff.-) Moira > Nancy, try Oxi Clean. . I am sure you can get it in the US too? here it is > sold in Asda's and at Lakeland. > > Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:50:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07037 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:50:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJZmE11449; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJZlN08474; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host3.avidhosting.com (host3.avidhosting.com [209.239.38.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJK1N29339 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip32.access-one.com [198.247.160.32]) by host3.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6HJJxR27801 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:19:59 -0400 Message-ID: <005401c22dc6$082963e0$20a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:13:23 -0500 Status: RO I had a wonderful mother who sewed (and now makes me draft patterns for her and do the fitting on my hard to fit baby sister) and a Beloved home-ec teacher Mrs. Prickett- who made me do a tailored jacket when the rest of the kids were making pillowcases, and design/draft my own prom dress my junior year, because I needed a challenge. *grin* It was a small school but she was/is my hero- she could hunt, fish, operate a skill saw with ease (we actually went out one week and took over the shop to make these coat racks that had little padded insets that we machine appliqued) She had us make a formal dinner for the school board, had us put on a banquet for the local senior citizens every Christmas, and put me in charge of costuming the All school play when I was a sophomore. She was a really terrific lady to work for- You should have seen our Jr./Sr. prom(she was my class's sponsor as well)- we actually built a moat in the rec-room complete with sea-monsters that had smoke rolling from their nostrils. *sigh* got to look her up next time I get home.... MJ ...who is now homesick for her home-ec teacher We had the mandatory Home Ec classes, in >junior high, where I wasn't allowed to sew as well as I knew how because it >was in advance of what the rest of the class was doing. The boys couldn't >take cooking or sewing at this time either. All I remember from the >cooking unit was that once I had to figure out the cost of two stewed >prunes to the nearest tenth of a cent. To this day I'm not much of a >cook. But I sewed my first historical, hat, purse, and dress, in 1971. > >Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 15:59:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07077 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:59:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HJiBE12259; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:44:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJiAN13526; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJWbN06689 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.45.68]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020717193231.THAU6994.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:32:31 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020717122957.00a37e70@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <200207171814.g6HIEAN21197@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1066 - 13 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:32:19 -0700 Status: RO There's lots of currency converters on line, but the yen usually trades for somewhere between 100 and 120 yen to the dollar. Just figure one hundred to the dollar and youv'e got a rough conversion. That's what they charged me for the Revolution in Fashion book - it was listed at 2,200 (twenty-two humdred) yen and they charged me twenty-two dollars. Julie At 11:14 AM 7/17/2002, you wrote: >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:11:29 -0700 >To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com >From: Margo Anderson >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Institute >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > >> BTW, does anyone on the list know a rough conversion from Yen to US$ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 16:20:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07208 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:20:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HK66E14160; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HK65N25718; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:06:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HJslN19435 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:54:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020717195440.UKFX29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:54:40 +0000 Message-ID: <3D35CB7E.7050807@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 73 Online Fabric Stores References: <16.22440cb4.2a6703e4@aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090803020200040803030201" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:54:38 -0700 Status: RO --------------090803020200040803030201 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Roscelin, thanks for that awesome link! There are many stores on that > list that were not yet in my Favorite Places. This will greatly > expand my sources. Thanks. I was wondering if anyone had tried the link out yet. I've only started to look at it. I fell in love with the silk prices at Thai Silk, but I'm going to wait to buy until I look at some swatches. It was suggested by my great teacher, Kat. Hi Kat! > I wonder if someone could make a page where we could all add our > supply sites to create a "master list" of costuming supplies? I've thought about that also. I would love to do it since, I have the time and web space. So, folks, start to give me great links and I will start to do a webpage for us and any other costumer. Roscelin --------------090803020200040803030201 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Azelana@aol.com wrote:
Roscelin, thanks for that awesome link!  There are many stores on that list that were not yet in my Favorite Places.  This will greatly expand my sources. 
Thanks.  I was wondering if anyone had tried the link out yet.  I've only started to look at it.  I fell in love with the silk prices at  Thai Silk, but I'm going to wait to buy until I look at some swatches. It was suggested by my great teacher, Kat.  Hi Kat!
I wonder if someone could make a page where we could all add our supply sites to create a "master list" of costuming supplies?
I've thought about that also.  I would love to do it since, I have the time and web space.  So, folks, start to give me great links and I will start to do a webpage for us and any other costumer.


Roscelin


--------------090803020200040803030201-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 16:47:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07351 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:47:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HKWHE16985; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKWFN11221; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f220.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.220]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKNgN06235 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:23:37 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:23:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Silk: Re: [h-cost] Re: 73 Online Fabric Stores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2002 20:23:37.0597 (UTC) FILETIME=[D51182D0:01C22DCF] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:23:37 +0000 Status: RO >Thanks. I was wondering if anyone had tried the link out yet. I've only >started to look at it. I fell in love with the silk prices at Thai Silks me too, but I keep asking myself just WHAT kind of silk I should buy for which period... _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 16:47:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07357 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:47:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HKWSE17044; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:32:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKWSN11377; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:32:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKGKN01946 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17UvDe-0006Nb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:16:18 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:16:18 -0400 Status: RO > Where I came into the (California) world before that time. My high school > councillor told me I could do anything I wanted, as long as it wasn't wood > shop, metal shop, or auto shop. We had the mandatory Home Ec classes, in > junior high, where I wasn't allowed to sew as well as I knew how because it > was in advance of what the rest of the class was doing. The boys couldn't > take cooking or sewing at this time either. All I remember from the > cooking unit was that once I had to figure out the cost of two stewed > prunes to the nearest tenth of a cent. To this day I'm not much of a > cook. But I sewed my first historical, hat, purse, and dress, in 1971. Reminds me of a dear friend of mine, who sounds to be about your age, Kayta. She told me that her high school counselor told her "Don't worry about college, dear. Just find yourself a nice man and get married." This was circa 1970 or so, right about the time that that whole "Wymmn's Movement" thing was going on, too. My experience was decidedly different 20 years later. I was pushed so hard in school to excel at math and science that when it became obvious I was more artistically inclined, the reaction was to try and beat the living arts right out of me. Figuratively speaking, of course. ;) Now, my experience in university has been such that in my last chemistry class I took, out of 100 students enrolled, we had a total of 5 males. It was like being in an all-girls school. Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 16:51:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07389 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HKaXE17427; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKaVN13821; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:36:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (relay04.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKPsN07443 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:25:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 27828 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2002 20:25:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO computer) ([170.215.241.12]) (envelope-sender ) by relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Jul 2002 20:25:53 -0000 Message-ID: <003c01c22dcf$f10f7f00$01fea8c0@computer> From: "Lyn Greaves- Thorny Rose" To: References: <179.b6b08af.2a6701bb@aol.com> <00c201c22dbe$0b342c80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:24:23 -0400 Status: RO > > > > Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how many > of > > us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting > the > > declining home sewing industry... > > > > --Gillian the seamstress > > > > When they finally got around to sewing in school (Jr. like most people, and it was for everyone), it was old hat. We did a cover for the stool that we all made in shop class. However, I drove the teacher nuts, as I had been sewing for about 8 years at that point. Mom taught me about age 5- when she got sick of having to make new doll clothes for me (I had started wrapping fabric around my Barbies about age 4 or so). She decided to save her sanity and teach me to do for myself. Let me tell you how she laughs now- since I have been sewing for a living for the past 11 years. Between working for a designer as a machine operator ("here's a Vogue pattern, I've lost the directions, make it" was a common instruction), and sewing historical pieces, if you can wear it, I've pretty much made it. Sometimes I scare myself. . . Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton Thorny Rose "I could rule this place with the right set of mammary glands. . . " --- Lara Flynn Boyle, MIIB _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 16:51:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07394 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:51:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HKafE17454; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKaeN13906; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web11504.mail.yahoo.com (web11504.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HKRkN08492 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020717202745.68448.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.42.208.182] by web11504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:27:45 PDT From: Megan Irvine Subject: Re: Burda Mag alive and well, was Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020717171135.98606.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Yes, I get all the extra issues, except for the kids fashion (I don't have any kids). Plus and Petites come once a year and then Pantst/Skirts/etc and the Beginners issue come twice a year. The monthly magazine is called "Burda World of Fashion" and has about 60 patterns in it. Maybe you could get it through http://www.glpnews.com/ in the UK? The ordering page does list prices for airmail to other countries. Good luck. --- N Kipar wrote: > --- Megan Irvine > > Burda is alive and well and translated into English! > > Ohhh, I have to check how to get it in England! If all else fails I > could ask > my mum to send it over I guess, but I hate asking them all the time > or my > friends, because it is pretty impossible to send money to and fro > the > continent. I know it sounds daft but it's true. English cheques > areonly > accepted in England. bank transfers are exorbitantly expensive. > BRING IN THE > EURO!!!!!! > > megan, have you tried their specials? the trousers/blouses/skirts > ones? they > come quarterly. do they still do the burda international? Burda's > fit is > superb, I agree! > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Megan Irvine http://www.darkthreads.com Personal log: http://darkthreads.blogspot.com "All violence is injustice."--Thich Nhat Hanh __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 16:59:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07453 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:59:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HKj5E18366; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKj4N19134; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKYcN12674 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip24.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.24]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6HKYYo11522 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:34:34 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help on Stain Removal Message-ID: <3D357465.117.1302493C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003401c22dc6$9d911220$b7513b41@momdad> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:43:01 -0700 Status: RO > You can usually find it at Walmart or Target, at least in Florida. We > love the stuff.-) Moira > > > Nancy, try Oxi Clean. . I am sure you can get it in the US too? here > > it is sold in Asda's and at Lakeland. > > Nicole In the Pacific NW you can find it at many grocery stores (such as Fred Meyer) as well as places you'd never expect it like bedding stores (Bed, Bath and Beyond, for example.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 17:07:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07520 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:07:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HKrFE19244; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKrDN23966; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKYfN12729 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip24.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.24]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6HKYao11530 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:34:36 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Message-ID: <3D357465.6346.13024987@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020717132257.C2909@net.indra.com> References: <00c201c22dbe$0b342c80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:43:01 -0700 Status: RO > When I was in Jr High (grades 7-8), you either took shop or Home Ec. > Unsurprisingly, it was mostly divided by gender. Some girls took > shop, but no boys took Home Ec. When I was in Jr High (grades 7,8,9) you were required to take shop (metal or wood) if you were a male and cooking and sewing (1/2 year each for 7th grade only) if you were a female. They didn't allow any gender cross over until about a year after I finished that (c. 1970 was the changeover). Health was a required class but it was not gender segregated. Business principles (which was basically how to get a social security number, start a savings account, learn how to manage a checking account and some other basic economics) was a required 1/2 year class for 9th graders. Baby care? It was not considered a "necessary" thing in those days. (Even though one of my 8th grade classmates was forced to quit school because she had gotten pregnant by her 24 year old boyfriend right before he was shipped off to Vietnam. Pregnant girls were thought to "contaminate" the other girls in the school. So were married girls when I was in high school, even if they weren't pregnant. I have no idea what eventually happened to her after she left school because both her family and his refused to have anything to do with "that piece of trash".) The sewing class started with sewing on paper (straight lines, then a spiral) to get the hang of using a sewing machine. Then they started us on making an apron (no gathering or casings, very simple), then a gym bag (casings and fabric drawstrings), then on to how to use a pattern. We then made an A line skirt followed by a jumper. It was all done in just 1/2 of a school year. (But no enforced special ed kids in the class, either.) This class bored me stiff, but then I'd been sewing for years at this point, including having made my own Christmas dress out of dark brown velveteen with green taffeta and a red bow. After that, a little around the waist apron is a real comedown. The next year I took "independant study" sewing. I was pretty much on my own but did make a pattern for a Star Trek uniform (this was fall 1967 or spring 1968) and then made the dress out of velour. (I wish I still had it.) The cooking class handled basic meal planning but also taught things in a stepwise fashion. I don't remember all the steps but I remember learning how to "cook" canned green beans, as well as learning how to make white sauces (which were used to make a sauce to put on the green beans, then macaroni and cheese from scratch), learning how flour works and then making quick dough biscuits, followed by bread from scratch and a layer cake from scratch. I can't tell you how glad I was that I got this class. > In high school I started making stage costumes, and I made Halloween > costumes for friends in college. I started making costume for the high school plays (and doing stage makeup, but never played a part on stage myself) but had been making Halloween costumes since I was in grade school. (Mom always made one for herself and usually won the costume contest at the church Halloween skating party. I wanted her to make one for me so that I could win something too. No such luck. Not only would she not make one for me which could win, but made me make my own. They didn't have a "kid made it themselves division" either.) I learned a lot on my own, but in 1983 discovered the SCA. I'm still proud of my first outfit, but I really started learning on an exponential curve when I moved to Seattle and started hanging out with the costuming people from Seattle and Portland. Fortunately, I also had a Portland costumer who introduced me to the wonders of quality research (so I went from Iris Brooks and Lucy Barton to Janet Arnold, the Pasold institute, Agnes Geijer, etc.) In about 1989 or '90 she told me that books were no longer going to cut it. I was going to have to write to museums and go to museums to get the information I thirsted for. I still eagerly look forward to any new quality information available. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 17:08:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07524 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:08:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HKrRE19299; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:53:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKrQN24117; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf09bis.bellsouth.net (mail309.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.169]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKbsN14690 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:37:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sgrochoski ([216.76.153.179]) by imf09bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20020717203920.QWWK1189.imf09bis.bellsouth.net@sgrochoski> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:39:20 -0400 Message-ID: <02fd01c22dd1$6de16ce0$c8aa1442@sgrochoski> From: "Apollonia Margherita" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:35:01 -0400 Status: RO I know this is OT, so please reply privately, apollonia@bellsouth.net . I have seen Moulin Rouge twice now, and I cannot figure out what she is dying from! Anyone know? Also, what is Absinthe? Sorry, I just know absolutely nothing about that time period... Many thanks, Apollonia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 17:33:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07638 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:33:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HLJCE21858; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLJ9N09683; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HKtEN25154 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:55:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6HKuXt28810 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:56:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207172056.g6HKuXt28810@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge In-Reply-To: <02fd01c22dd1$6de16ce0$c8aa1442@sgrochoski> "from Apollonia Margherita at Jul 17, 2002 04:35:01 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Consumption, otherwise known as tuberculosis. .heather. > I know this is OT, so please reply privately, apollonia@bellsouth.net . I > have seen Moulin Rouge twice now, and I cannot figure out what she is dying > from! Anyone know? Also, what is Absinthe? Sorry, I just know absolutely > nothing about that time period... > > Many thanks, > > Apollonia > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 17:38:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07659 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:38:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HLO5E22426; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLO4N12573; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLCrN05962 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:12:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p155.directcon.net [209.233.107.155]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6HLCdDv032010; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:12:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020717141808.00ed1390@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge In-Reply-To: <02fd01c22dd1$6de16ce0$c8aa1442@sgrochoski> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:18:08 -0700 Status: RO I >have seen Moulin Rouge twice now, and I cannot figure out what she is dying >from! Anyone know? It's a prettied-up version of tuberculosis, as far as I can tell. If it were realistically presented, she'd be hemmoraeging and spewing gallons of blood in that last scene. Also, what is Absinthe? Absinthe, at the time, was an alchoholic drink flavored with wormwood. It was dangerously strong and hallucinogenic, so much so that it ruined lives. Sort of the crack cocaine of its day. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 17:38:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07663 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:38:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HLOAE22451; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:24:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLO8N12628; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLFnN07694 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:15:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-238.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.238]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIK18234; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:15:33 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <073f01c22dd8$403cafa0$207a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <02fd01c22dd1$6de16ce0$c8aa1442@sgrochoski> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:23:52 +0100 Status: RO I assume TB Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 17:51:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07703 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:51:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HLX3E23375; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLX2N17836; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLKTN10503 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:20:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24049 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2002 21:20:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.194.154]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Jul 2002 21:20:28 -0000 Message-ID: <006b01c22dd7$97438b80$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <005401c22dc6$082963e0$20a0f7c6@marnadav> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:19:09 -0400 Status: RO I should point out that although I am now a FaCS (Home Ec) teacher (and ALSO certified to teach History (social studies), Business, and elementary), I HATED HATED HATED taking Home Ec in the 1970s. I NEVER would have wanted to be a teacher, and NOT that subject! Because it was mandatory to take it, and I didn't get to take shop. Because I was a very independent only child, I could already cook, and bake, and sew, and was constantly in trouble because I was going faster that the teacher wanted, and did not work well with others. )That's a problem I still have - I often could get the whole thing done while other people are still talking about it, and have to squelch myself from just starting!) Because every pattern I wanted to make, was too complicated for what we were allowed to do - even if I had already made it. I try very hard to NOT teach that way, to let the brighter or faster or just more skilled ones not have to stay in step with the rest of the class. Even though I sometimes miss, and the ones skilled at hiding and doing nothing manage to do nothing, until I catch up with them - and then those skilled at stalling manage to fail, and with their parents, that is usually all my fault for not staying on top of the little darlings. But I risk it time and again, because I only hated doing things because of the instructor and the methods - I love actually doing all of it, and try to pass that on to all of the students. right now, jr high kids in New York State are mandated to take a quarter (10 weeks) of art and of health, and 30 weeks of FaCS (Home Ec) and 30 weeks of Technology (Do NOT call it shop, or risk the wrath of those very handy instructors!) > I had a wonderful mother who sewed (and now makes me draft patterns for her Rowena > and do the fitting on my hard to fit baby sister) and a Beloved home-ec > teacher Mrs. Prickett- who made me do a tailored jacket when the rest of the > kids were making pillowcases, and design/draft my own prom dress my junior > year, because I needed a challenge. *grin* It was a small school but she (snipped) > We had the mandatory Home Ec classes, in > >junior high, where I wasn't allowed to sew as well as I knew how because it > >was in advance of what the rest of the class was doing. The boys couldn't > >take cooking or sewing at this time either. All I remember from the > >cooking unit was that once I had to figure out the cost of two stewed > >prunes to the nearest tenth of a cent. To this day I'm not much of a > >cook. But I sewed my first historical, hat, purse, and dress, in 1971. > > > >Kayta _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 17:52:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07709 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HLbHE23822; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLbHN20190; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf05bis.bellsouth.net (mail205.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.145]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLNuN12486 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:23:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sgrochoski ([216.76.153.179]) by imf05bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20020717212522.LRMR1189.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@sgrochoski> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:25:22 -0400 Message-ID: <032a01c22dd7$dc04dd00$c8aa1442@sgrochoski> From: "Apollonia Margherita" To: References: <200207172056.g6HKuXt28810@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:21:02 -0400 Status: RO Thank you! Apollonia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge > Consumption, otherwise known as tuberculosis. > > > .heather. > > > I know this is OT, so please reply privately, apollonia@bellsouth.net . I > > have seen Moulin Rouge twice now, and I cannot figure out what she is dying > > from! Anyone know? Also, what is Absinthe? Sorry, I just know absolutely > > nothing about that time period... > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Apollonia > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 18:00:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07753 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:00:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HLk5E24818; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLk3N25612; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLcHN20832 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:38:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020717213812.BRNG26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:38:12 +0000 Message-ID: <004801c22dda$3e33fc70$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <16.22440cb4.2a6703e4@aol.com> <3D35CB7E.7050807@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 73 Online Fabric Stores MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:38:08 -0700 Status: RO >> I wonder if someone could make a page where we could all add our supply sites to create a "master list" of costuming supplies? I think this was one of the ideas for the h-costume website, a project which seems (?) to have died somewhere... - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 18:04:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07774 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:04:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HLoDE25212; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLoCN27937; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLdvN22007 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:39:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020717213952.CLBW24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:39:52 +0000 Message-ID: <006101c22dda$79fe8900$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <004c01c22db7$fa4e5d60$73a0f7c6@marnadav> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:39:49 -0700 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marna Jean" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's tie-back skirts > Do you have Victorian Fashions and costumes from Harper's bazar1867-98 , > Stella Blum, ed.? > if so look on page 146 view a- this petticoat shows a casing right above the > knee line to hold the fullness back- it could then be let out for > pressing/starching. AHA! That's what I needed -- a visual aid! > Basically if you are using Janet Arnold 74-77 pattern you will definitely > need some "fluff" underneath your tie back strings to get the desired shape > (I would say this dress is definitely 1876 or 77 because rounding the > armscye to the shoulder really didn't become popular until then-- or at > least that is the year the fashion magazines start showing and mentioning > it- I'm big on correct seamlines) I think so too, plus the use of the cuirass bodice rather than a bodice with peplum. > You can use the same front and side panels as the skirt, and make the back > panel shorter (basically remove the pleating on the sides) Then starting at > the hipline put tiers of ruffles that will cover the sideback and back > panels. This is exactly what I'm thinking of doing! Thanks SO much for your help! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 18:09:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07788 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:09:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HLsUE25619; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLsSN00478; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLhrN24259 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:43:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0GZE00CF4XOTFN@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:43:42 -1000 (HST) From: annora Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics In-reply-to: <3D357465.6346.13024987@localhost> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:42:29 -1000 (HST) Status: RO > When I was in Jr High (grades 7-8), you either took shop or Home Ec. > Unsurprisingly, it was mostly divided by gender. Some girls took > shop, but no boys took Home Ec. When I was in 8th grade everyone, both boys and girls, had a trimester each of Home Ec, Shop, and Agriculture. Shop was absolutely useless as we did a few decorative things like sanding and polishing a piece of wood, aluminum tooling, and gluing some layers of plastic together--nothing transferable to getting along in real life. All I remember about Ag was planting bush beans. In Home Ec we did both cooking and sewing but by that time I had been doing both for years so the teacher pretty much let me do things on my own. I have an office at an intermediate school now and I don't think any of those courses is even offered, although there are a few elective courses at the high school. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 18:13:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07810 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:13:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HLx3E26112; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLx2N03308; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HLkoN26056 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:46:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.cc.ea1bc98 (16930) for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:46:38 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_cc.ea1bc98.2a673fbe_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:46:38 EDT Status: RO --part1_cc.ea1bc98.2a673fbe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/17/2002 4:53:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, apollonia@bellsouth.net writes: > . I > have seen Moulin Rouge twice now, and I cannot figure out what she is dying > from! Anyone know? I'd say.....embarrassment. Don't worry about it. The film has [and is suppose to have] nothing to do with reality.....of any period. --part1_cc.ea1bc98.2a673fbe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/17/2002 4:53:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, apollonia@bellsouth.net writes:


.  I
have seen Moulin Rouge twice now, and I cannot figure out what she is dying
from!  Anyone know?  


I'd say.....embarrassment.

Don't worry about it. The film has [and is suppose to have] nothing to do with reality.....of any period. --part1_cc.ea1bc98.2a673fbe_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 18:51:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08080 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:51:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HMb9E00252; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HMb7N25309; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:37:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmsoutbound.mx.net (cmsrelay05.mx.net [165.212.11.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HMJBN15763 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:19:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uadvg132.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.132) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2002 22:18:50 -0000 Received: from uadvg137.cms.usa.net [165.212.8.13] by uadvg132.cms.usa.net via mtad (CM.0402.2.02C) with ESMTP id 523ggqwRH0326M32; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:17:07 GMT Message-ID: <20020717221907.20342.qmail@uadvg137.cms.usa.net> Received: from 206.163.135.19 [206.163.135.19] by uwdvg013.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.0402.1.07D); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:19:07 -0000 From: Shea Young To: Subject: Re: [[h-cost] Re: shop and home economics] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.1.07D) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6HMJBN15763 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:19:07 -0700 Status: RO I graduated in 1973. Home Ec. for the girls and Shop for the boys was strictly enforced. Home Ec. was divided into sewing and cooking - had a great time sewing - hated cooking. I had already been sewing for my Barbie and Troll dolls and just needed a little encouragement to take on more complicated projects. I remember a green and blue plaid plaid made up in a mock-turtleneck shift, a blue and white flowered drindal skirt with a bib, and a tapestry pant suit - I think it was a Betsy Johnson pattern. I too three years of the class and formed a great friendship with the teacher. She asked me to help fit the new girls coming in and various other tasks. I was encouraged to attend a commerical dressmaking course at a vocational school half the day during my senior year. I attended full time after graduation. The Home Ec. teacher tried to find funds to hire me on as an assistant after finishing the course, but it didn't happen. Instead, I went on to become part of the newest craze - pillow furniture! My first professional job was at a cooperative of musicians and craftspeople called the Court "C" Artist's Mall. In one shop I made pillow furniture from beautiful fabrics and did all the finishing work at another clothing/costume shop - remember those crocheted bathing tops of the early '70s? Made a million of 'em for the shop! I saw them again at the Oregon Country Fair this weekend. It's that 30 year fashion cycle thing - I'm feeling a little old now - must take a nap so I can get back to work on quilting some stays ;-} Shea in Portland, Oregon Azelana@aol.com wrote: > Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how >many of us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be >affecting the declining home sewing industry... > > --Gillian the seamstress _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 19:01:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08247 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:01:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HMk6E01064; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:46:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HMk4N29822; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HMXLN23492 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:33:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17UxMF-000PKB-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:33:20 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, References: <002501c22db1$f0b43b40$0101a8c0@bella> <20020717173002.49130.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20020717173002.49130.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:34:28 +0100 Status: RO N Kipar wrote > --- Linda Walton wrote: > > >*snippage* > >Thanks Linda for sharing that, it was fascinating! I grew up in school during >the 80s (oh my, wasn't the music great and the hair styles silly, including my >own :-))) gender equality at home and at school wasn't even an issue, I guess >that germany was ahead, or maybe it was the part where I came from? That's more >likely. I wish though instead of just doing nothing they would have taught both >the guys and the gals needlework AND shop. I learned needlework all from my mum >and shop all from my dad. Yessir, I can and did and do build my own furniture >and DIY. > >> enjoy sitting and sewing, (nor going for nature walks), as we did. And how >> will they make the leap into understanding the construction of early >> clothing ? How did you all manage to do it ? > >With my mum's help, but the rest came via the academic approach. Books, books, >studying extant garments, learning how to 'read' and evaluate sources, etc. It >came through school and through Uni in combination with my mum's skills she >taught me. Nowadays I am better in some things than my mum (she cannot make >anything without a properly fitting pattern) and others I'll never reach her. >(her tailoring techniques are IMMACULATE! But that's my mum, always perfect >:-)) > >Nicole > That's fascinating - my mother is exactly the same. Despite all her knowledge of tailoring techniques, and she can adapt a pattern to anything ("Can I have that bodice, and that skirt, with those sleeves?"), seeing me just measuring and cutting into fabric freaks her out completely. And she's amazed about all the guys I know who sew, more complicated things than I do (15th century doublets and hose and stuff). I still apologise in my mind when I think that, for my wedding dress, I just sent her to the V&A to buy Janet Arnold's 18th century book and make me a sack dress - at 400 miles away. The cut of the shoulders was so alien, I don't think she ever believed it would work until she saw me in it. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 19:05:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08276 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:05:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HMoCE01403; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HMoBN02087; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:50:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HMYjN24183 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A1ACC770188; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:37:32 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c22de2$2f5a48a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020717114511.00c9dab0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:34:58 -0400 Status: RO I took six years of Home Ec. from jr. to high school in the early 1970s. I also took art and mechanical drawing in high school for four years. I majored in all three in college... I was majoring in seeing how many majors I could have. Ended up with an Associates degree in Fashion. At University of New Mexico in the early 1980s, I majored in Home Ec. Ed. until I got pregnant with son #3. At UNM was where I took my first class with vintage clothing... we did a fashion show as a final project. I also took a tailoring class... the professor kept leaving the classroom so I helped the other students. I love tailoring! In the mid 90s after children #4, 5, & 6 came along, I finished my degree in Fashion in '97 (YIPPEE!!!!)... but only took one sewing class in the theater costume department. The big thing I learned in that class was how to take pattern from existing garments. One thing I have learned from talking with many college educators and our students... the Home Ec. dept in college has been absorbed by other dept. or schools. Home Ec was involved so many different subjects. When at UNM I was taking education classes, child development, consumer behavior, nutrition, AND sewing classes. Some H.E. schools moved to textiles dept under fashion dept. Consumer Behavior is actually now part of the Marketing business school... I had to repeat this class in my Jr. year at Virginia Commonwalth Univ. because I took it at a sophomore level at UNM and they wanted it in my jr. year. The sewing courses are taught in fashion dept AND the costume design dept of theater. In our state, Virginia, the Home Ec. dept has been completely dissolved. Every high school is required to offer a fashion program. At my sons' high school this means they make a trip to NYC once a year during fashion week, AND they produce an annual fashion show. The students do not sew. As my professors told me about the high school fashion courses... a good many of the HS students want to be models or fashion buyers. They change their tone when they get to college and find out how much math is involved to be a buyer. The theater dept. at our HS has a couple of girls who make costumes... one student's mother is a professional seamstress so she came into theater knowing a lot about sewing. My #4 son actually helps build a lot of the costumes for their productions. He also comes home with costumes when the show is over. He likes to wear the king's robe around the house. A note here... the seamstress' daughter is my son's girlfriend. At our Costume Classroom, a large amount of the classes are devoted to sewing construction. We do have several home-school students who are taking these classes as well as adults. Jennie's classes always have some teenagers in them. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 19:13:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08320 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:13:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HMxJE02190; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:59:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HMxIN06872; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f111.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HMmeN01205 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:48:35 -0700 Received: from 66.72.181.65 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:48:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.72.181.65] From: "Parsla Liepa" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2002 22:48:35.0011 (UTC) FILETIME=[15219130:01C22DE4] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: pliepa@deepthought.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:48:34 -0400 Status: RO > > Also, what is Absinthe? > >Absinthe, at the time, was an alchoholic drink flavored with wormwood. It >was dangerously strong and hallucinogenic, so much so that it ruined lives. > Sort of the crack cocaine of its day. > I've heard tell of some US States legalizing a 'safer' type of absinthe (without wormwood). Absinthe (both kinds) are flavored with anise, parsley, fennel, and dill, so I suspect the 'legal' kind is just a concoction of those. 'Real' absinthe is still available over the internet, ordered from Spain or Italy. The liquor was believed to enhance the activity of the brain, develop new ideas, expand imagination, and act as an aphrodisiac. Absinthe causes a double intoxication of sorts, from the alcohol and also from the chemical thujone (from the wormwood. It also shows up in tansy and sage, but to much lesser degrees). Thujone, with prolonged exposure (think -months- of daily contact), can cause hallucinations, tremors, convulsions, and paralysis. Chemically, it is very similar to THC (the chemical in marijuana), and is only mentally addictive. The chemical dependency comes from the alcohol. The really neat thing about absinthe is that it's a clear green color, until diluted with water, when it turns a milky white. Parsla Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 19:18:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08352 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:18:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HN42E02511; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HN42N09108; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.47]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HMpIN02733 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:51:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from att.net ([12.77.141.240]) by mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020717225112.SOET15849.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:51:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3D35F648.D9234458@att.net> From: Crissy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge References: <3.0.6.32.20020717141808.00ed1390@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:57:12 -0400 Status: RO Another nickname for Absinthe at the time was " Green Fairy"...... which explains the little fairy in the green dress! (trying to bring it on topic....) Crissy > > > > Also, what is Absinthe? > > Absinthe, at the time, was an alchoholic drink flavored with wormwood. It > was dangerously strong and hallucinogenic, so much so that it ruined lives. > Sort of the crack cocaine of its day. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 19:35:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08425 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:35:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HNL4E03794; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HNL3N17436; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HN8MN11294 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020717230816.FYTB26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:08:16 +0000 Message-ID: <3D35F8E1.9010005@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Silk: Re: [h-cost] Re: 73 Online Fabric Stores References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:08:17 -0700 Status: RO Me too, me too. We need help from the experts. I will give a brief sewing history in a bit. But believe me, I am still very much a beginner. Roscelin Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >> Thanks. I was wondering if anyone had tried the link out yet. I've >> only started to look at it. I fell in love with the silk prices at >> Thai Silks > > > me too, but I keep asking myself just WHAT kind of silk I should buy > for which period... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 19:36:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08429 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:36:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HNLME03841; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HNLLN17699; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout5-int.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HNE1N13955 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-200.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.200]) by pimout5-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6HNE12294072 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:14:01 -0400 Message-ID: <012001c22de7$a3210260$c82caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <16.22440cb4.2a6703e4@aol.com> <3D35CB7E.7050807@attbi.com> <004801c22dda$3e33fc70$befc8218@WERNTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 73 Online Fabric Stores MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:14:01 -0700 Status: RO I just switched my email, and the list of my online sourcing for all sorts of goodies is really extensive. This is a great idea. Perhaps I could put up a links page at my site for purchasing costuming goodies. Or we could forward it all to Karen Dick to include in the next Whole Costumer's Catalogue. angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 73 Online Fabric Stores > >> I wonder if someone could make a page where we could all add our supply > sites to create a "master list" of costuming supplies? > > I think this was one of the ideas for the h-costume website, a project which > seems (?) to have died somewhere... > > - Kendra > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 19:44:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08456 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:44:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HNTTE04448; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:29:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HNTRN21573; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout5-int.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HN7hN10993 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-200.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.200]) by pimout5-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6HN7f2278544 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:07:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c22de6$c137c1e0$c82caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <179.b6b08af.2a6701bb@aol.com> <00c201c22dbe$0b342c80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:07:41 -0700 Status: RO I went to Catholic School. We were offered art, sewing and cooking. I took the first two all four years. I was abysmal at sewing, always wanting a "finished" product. Now the product is simply a nice by-product of spending hours at a machine planning out how things will look, and feeling and working with all these wonderful fabrics with my hands every day. angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics > > > > Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how many > of > > us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting > the > > declining home sewing industry... > > > > --Gillian the seamstress > > > > Well, when I was in jr. high (1984-85) we had 1 semester of Home Ec and 1 of > Shop. Each semester was cut into 2 quarters. When in HomeEc, I got a quarter > of cooking, which was rather fun and somewhat useful. It was after that that > I think Mom started to let me help in the kitchen. > > The other quarter was sewing. I distinctly remember having to sew a pillow > in the shape of a letter (I picked K to give to my sister, whose birthday > was coming up, I think). I'm pretty certain we had to learn other stuff, but > I can only really remember the pillow. > > However, the summer before starting high school, my mother passed by a local > fabric shop in the mall where my dad's shop was and saw a schoolmate of mine > learning to sew from the manager there. The deal was she could use the > machines in the shop if she bought what she needed there. (The manager was a > family friend of hers, I think). Mom asked if I could get the same deal, so > I spent a few days a week in the fabric store picking out patterns and > fabric and learning how to sew! That was much more useful than the pillow. > After that I really didn't do much sewing until I started college. I can > remember the surprise in my mother's voice when I asked for a sewing machine > for Christmas :-) Now the majority of my sewing is historical - there's no > time to make mundane clothes! > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of > Bristol, > BRF FOF > > So many books, so little time > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 19:52:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08477 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:52:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6HNc7E05064; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HNc5N25565; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HNTvN21784 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020717232951.GYCN26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:29:51 +0000 Message-ID: <3D35FDF0.6070203@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics References: <179.b6b08af.2a6701bb@aol.com> <00c201c22dbe$0b342c80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:29:52 -0700 Status: RO Rebecca Schmitt wrote: Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how many of us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting the declining home sewing industry... --Gillian the seamstress Greetings everyone, I guess it is time for me to share my sewing history. My mother was a very good seamstress, she sew simple table cloths to men tailored suits. My youngest memories of sewing is using thread and needle and handing sewing "Barbie clothes and learning simple embroidery from my grandmother. Later in the '70's, I took the required Home Ec/Sewing class. And received low grades. My mother would get so impatient with me she would take my project away and do it for me. I was supposedly worthless when it came to sewing. I didn't touch a sewing machine again until the late '80's - bad experience with being told I was still worthless when it came to sewing on a machine. I "had" problems even doing a simple t-tunic. Now, here is 2002, I'm 43 years old. And I wouldn't live without my sewing machine and future serger. Back in 1998, I decided that yes, I can sew. And I did. My guy and friends choose to call my line of costumes, "Rose's- I don't know how to sew" . I have a long way to go, and lots to learn.. That is why I am so happy that Kat and a few others have taken this slightly old beginner under their wings. So, please, forgive me if I ask silly questions. Because sometimes I do ask a lot of questions. When it comes to embroidery. I adore it, and never get enough of it. I LOVE to embellish anything. I do some blackwork, petit point, basic embroidery, beaded embroidery (just complete my guy's device - if anyone wants to see it I can scan it and show it), basic Chinese silk embroidery, and I am going to learn flat silk split stitch, and would like to learn Stumpwork. Well, there is my sewing history. Roscelin >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 20:18:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08578 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:18:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I04CE06816; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I04AN05631; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6HNkNN28731 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020717234618.ILSY24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:46:18 +0000 Message-ID: <3D3601CA.8010704@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Costuming Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Fabric printing research Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:46:18 -0700 Status: RO As I was watching an antique program on TV today, they were showing an actual wooden stamp that was used to print fabric. I thought this would be a great research project. thinking about doing. I know of a few books on textiles that everyone has mentioned time to time. Are there any good ones on the subject of history of fabric printing? When was it started? How was it done? Can the average person do it at home in the modern world? By the way, I am in the SCA. My persona is a 14th century French lady (although, my other great desire is Paris 1700's -I believe that was time line-) I might have mentioned it before, but I couldn't recall. So, anything about printed fabric in the 14th century will be greatly appreciated. It might be kind of fun to try to do my own printed fabric for a gown. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 21:54:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09014 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:54:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I1e3E12064; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I1e1N06840; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I1SgN03319 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id SAA20588 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:48:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207180148.SAA20588@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Time for me to put on my herbalists' hat for a moment. "Parsla Liepa" wrote: > >Absinthe, at the time, was an alchoholic drink flavored with wormwood. It > >was dangerously strong and hallucinogenic, so much so that it ruined lives. > > Sort of the crack cocaine of its day. > > > > I've heard tell of some US States legalizing a 'safer' type of absinthe > (without wormwood). Absinthe (both kinds) are flavored with anise, parsley, > fennel, and dill, so I suspect the 'legal' kind is just a concoction of > those. 'Real' absinthe is still available over the internet, ordered from > Spain or Italy. It's sold as "Absente." It's mostly flavored with anise, which in that dosage has a synergistic effect with the alcohol. So it isn't _just_ the wormwood in absinthe that's psychoactive. [...] > Thujone, with prolonged exposure (think -months- of daily contact), can > cause hallucinations, tremors, convulsions, and paralysis. Chemically, it > is very similar to THC (the chemical in marijuana), and is only mentally > addictive. The chemical dependency comes from the alcohol. What most sources don't mention is that absinthe was 180 proof (90% alcohol). Most of the brain damage was Korsikov's Syndrome (wet brain). When you had people going through a whole bottle a day of the stuff, the thujone content became irrelevent. That much alcohol would cause brain damage all by itself. > The really neat thing about absinthe is that it's a clear green color, until > diluted with water, when it turns a milky white. The milky color is also from the absinthe. You can see the same effect in ouzo (greek) and sambuca (italian). Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 22:07:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09110 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:07:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I1r3E12678; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I1r2N10843; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I1g6N07462 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:42:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.d5.1a534ac5 (16634) for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:41:57 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d5.1a534ac5.2a6776e5_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:41:57 EDT Status: RO --part1_d5.1a534ac5.2a6776e5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/17/2002 6:59:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pliepa@hotmail.com writes: > The really neat thing about absinthe is that it's a clear green color, until > diluted with water, when it turns a milky white. > > That and you can wear a sorta plain bustle gown a la Degas while having a glass. --part1_d5.1a534ac5.2a6776e5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/17/2002 6:59:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pliepa@hotmail.com writes:


The really neat thing about absinthe is that it's a clear green color, until
diluted with water, when it turns a milky white.



That and you can wear a sorta plain bustle gown a la Degas while having a glass.


--part1_d5.1a534ac5.2a6776e5_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 22:11:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09130 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:11:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I1vBE12922; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I1vAN12019; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:57:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I1pMN10371 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:51:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p234-nas6.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.216.234] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17V0Rr-0004pS-00; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:51:20 +1200 Message-ID: <00c901c22dfd$9a6a9fd0$ead8adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <02fd01c22dd1$6de16ce0$c8aa1442@sgrochoski> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:51:13 +1200 Status: RO > I know this is OT, so please reply privately, apollonia@bellsouth.net . I > have seen Moulin Rouge twice now, and I cannot figure out what she is dying > from! Anyone know? Also, what is Absinthe? Sorry, I just know absolutely > nothing about that time period... Consumption which is not necessarily TB. As seen by a great number of women who die from it but never passed it on to others. Yes the Bacteria had been discovered by the time of the movie. But then it had also been discovered by the time Sarah Bernhardt used to *fake* having consumption. She didn't like being told what to do and used little capsules to fake the blood. She got caught out only much later on. So if people weren't worried about catching the disease (as can be seen fromthe fact that they kept working with her) then the general public must still have been in the dark. This has been asked a number of times on MR sites so I'll pass this nice little link: Actually there is a book about consumption and the sociology of it. How it was seen as a romantic disease. I was reading it in regards to some study on "Trilby" and was shocked to discover I had been in contact with someone with TB. There is a little 6 prong test and you are (supposed) to be checked up to see your reaction. well I came out in a rash that perplexed nearly every doctor I saw. Reading the book made me realise that it *was* a reaction to the test. Not really surpriising, the school I was at also recommended all the Hep vaccines. So while the topic is a tad OT it is part of the social clime humming away producing all those wonderful fears and is comparable to the hysteria over the corset. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 22:20:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09194 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:20:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I263E13461; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:06:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I262N14498; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I1raN11057 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:53:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p234-nas6.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.216.234] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17V0U2-0005J8-00; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:53:35 +1200 Message-ID: <00d101c22dfd$ec774350$ead8adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <02fd01c22dd1$6de16ce0$c8aa1442@sgrochoski> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:53:32 +1200 Status: RO oops, got carried away, the web page: http://www.salon.com/health/col/bob/1999/10/11/dr_bob/ Most relevant passage: "Initially the syndrome was non-specific and included a variety of similar-appearing pulmonary disorders such as "miner's lung" (silicosis) and stonecutter's phthisis. In 1868 the organism mycobacterium tuberculosis was isolated and shown to be the underlying cause of most cases of consumption. Despite studies clearly demonstrating the ability to transfer the disease via blood and sputum from infected patients to rabbits, acceptance of the infectious nature of tuberculosis took more than another 14 years. Meanwhile, many physicians continued to preach that consumption was caused by breathing unhealthy air (miasmas), by bad living habits, even by moral turpitude. (Sound suspiciously like the early days of AIDS?)" michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 22:33:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09237 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:33:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I2ICE14096; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I2IAN18017; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I1uuN11948 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:56:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-200.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.200]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6I1uu4283690 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:56:56 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c22dfe$65a43a80$c82caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <3D3601CA.8010704@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:56:56 -0700 Status: RO I do fabric printing all the time. It's fun, and can be really useful in my line of work. I just bought some stamps of Egyptian motifs, some gilded pigments in three shades from Dharma Trading and some clear acrylic to hold the pigments together. I mixed up this fabulous gold stuff and stamped away. I used it on white jersey (I'm making the Elvis/Pharoah from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat)... the color was strong and the stuff is drycleanable after being ironed. I don't know about it's correctness of use for the periods you discussed, but it can be used all over, for borders, whatever. It's particular useful when you want some design to accentuate the shape of a garment, like a border, because you can cut out your pattern piece and then make your border to fit perfectly, rather than buying a border fabric and being forced to cut everything in the one direction that works. Anyway, I love it. angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rose Amberwulf" To: "Costuming" Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 4:46 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fabric printing research > As I was watching an antique program on TV today, they were showing an > actual wooden stamp that was used to print fabric. I thought this would > be a great research project. thinking about doing. > I know of a few books on textiles that everyone has mentioned time to > time. Are there any good ones on the subject of history of fabric > printing? When was it started? How was it done? Can the average > person do it at home in the modern world? > > By the way, I am in the SCA. My persona is a 14th century French lady > (although, my other great desire is Paris 1700's -I believe that was > time line-) I might have mentioned it before, but I couldn't recall. > So, anything about printed fabric in the 14th century will be greatly > appreciated. It might be kind of fun to try to do my own printed fabric > for a gown. > > Roscelin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 22:54:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09299 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:54:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I2e5E15277; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I2e4N24567; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f87.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I2K8N18619 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:20:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:20:03 -0700 Received: from 64.217.73.111 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:20:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.217.73.111] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 73 Online Fabric Stores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2002 02:20:03.0599 (UTC) FILETIME=[A01E71F0:01C22E01] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:20:02 +0000 Status: RO I believe there's already something like it on the CommunityZero site Danieel (?) set up. Mary/Katerine > >Roscelin, thanks for that awesome link! There are many stores on that list >that were not yet in my Favorite Places. This will greatly expand my >sources. > >I wonder if someone could make a page where we could all add our supply >sites >to create a "master list" of costuming supplies? > >--Gillian, who doesn't know a darn thing about web design > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 17 23:42:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09694 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:42:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I3SEE17427; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I3SDN09079; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:28:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I3McN07542 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:22:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:16:59 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A3226AF900DA; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:16:59 -0700 Received: from kimathlon ( [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:16:59 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric printing research Message-ID: <000501c22e0a$82130370$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3D3601CA.8010704@attbi.com> X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:23:37 -0500 Status: RO There are lots of books on the subject. Start at your local library. Hand block printing is a very expensive way to produce fabrics, but is still done in a limited amount today. It was mostly superseded by roller printing, and now also by silk screen. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rose Amberwulf Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 6:46 PM To: Costuming Subject: [h-cost] Fabric printing research As I was watching an antique program on TV today, they were showing an actual wooden stamp that was used to print fabric. I thought this would be a great research project. thinking about doing. I know of a few books on textiles that everyone has mentioned time to time. Are there any good ones on the subject of history of fabric printing? When was it started? How was it done? Can the average person do it at home in the modern world? By the way, I am in the SCA. My persona is a 14th century French lady (although, my other great desire is Paris 1700's -I believe that was time line-) I might have mentioned it before, but I couldn't recall. So, anything about printed fabric in the 14th century will be greatly appreciated. It might be kind of fun to try to do my own printed fabric for a gown. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 00:17:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09846 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:17:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I439E19073; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I435N19275; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I3oDN15755 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZF00MABENMIJ@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:50:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing research In-reply-to: <3D3601CA.8010704@attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020717195427.00cae5c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:49:57 -0700 Status: RO >Are there any good ones on the subject of history of fabric printing? Yes. Make friends with your local reference librarian. >When was it started? The Coptic Egyptians were printing dye-resist on fabric by the 5th or 6th century AD, if I remember correctly. Europeans were block printing on fabric before they were block printing on paper, and printing with movable type came after that. >How was it done? I think wood blocks are traditional, but much the same effect can be achieved using a linoleum block, which is much easier to carve (it is softer and has no grain to get in the way). >Can the average person do it at home in the modern world? Yes. Look up a book about linoleum printing, and it will tell you more than I could. Small pieces of linoleum printing can be done on a kitchen table. Big art supply stores (not Aaron Brothers) have all the parts you will need, and maybe even the book to show you how to do it. >By the way, I am in the SCA. My persona is a 14th century French lady >(although, my other great desire is Paris 1700's -I believe that was time >line-) I might have mentioned it before, but I couldn't recall. So, >anything about printed fabric in the 14th century will be greatly >appreciated. It might be kind of fun to try to do my own printed fabric >for a gown. Davenport's book of costume has two pictures of block-printed fabric on page 228, Ill's #634 and #635. #634 is German (Metropolitan Museum), 12th-14thC, with a green background printed on natural linen, leaving the pattern un-printed. The notes under this example say printed fabric starts to appear in the Rheinland at the end of the 12th century "in imitation of Italian brocades, often using silver and gold". #635 has three German examples (V and A), 14th-15thC, and the notes say the upper right one is "Rhenish: eagles, fruit and leaves in dark purple". The background is printed, leaving the pattern un-printed. There appears to be a main body print, and a smaller border print to this one. No sizes are given for any of these pieces. One can't tell how much pattern is on each block, or if several blocks were used in combination. And there's no way to tell what the fabric was ultimately used for, nor where any original stitching or selvedges might be. But one of my Britanicas (the 1911, I think) shows an SCA-period church vestment of block-printed fabric. Eventually, if not sooner, I will block-print myself a dress for SCA use, and will enlighten all the 'authentic-er-than-thou' folks about fabric printing. (Printed playing cards appear in the 15th century, as do printed embroidery-pattern books.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 00:34:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10163 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:34:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I4K3E19729; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4K2N23965; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I47NN20546 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AFA5141501E0; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:10:13 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c22e10$a0bd2520$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <179.b6b08af.2a6701bb@aol.com> <00c201c22dbe$0b342c80$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> <20020717132257.C2909@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:07:26 -0400 Status: RO I forgot to add this: Home Ec: Jr. & High School: 1969-1975 Girls took Home Ec.; Boys took shop; they were elective courses, you didn't HAVE to take them. (although in high school girls and boys could take mechanical drawing in the same classroom) Location: Mississippi Fashion: Jr. College: 1975-1978 All girls in the classes. Location: Mississippi Home Ec. Education: University of New Mexico: 1980-1981. All girls in the classes. Fashion & Theater- Costume Design: Virginia Commonwealth University, 1995-1997. Fashion: Out of about 150 students about 8 guys in the dept. 2 guys graduated the same semester that I did. Costume Design: There were no guys in the costume design track. The only time I had a CD class with guys was two masters level director students... Costume Design & Research class. Neither one of them finished the course. They couldn't keep up with the coursework. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 00:38:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10254 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:38:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I4ODE19888; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4OCN25120; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I49rN21268 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.251]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020718040947.QPCV29588.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:09:47 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020717224915.03132b20@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 73 Online Fabric Stores In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:14:28 -0500 Status: RO There is a webpage list I started on the "HCostume Swap or Sell" Communities site. For those of you who have lost the URL it is: http://www.communityzero.com/ and I will be sending out another invitation to join very shortly. Cheers, Danielle At 02:20 AM 7/18/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I believe there's already something like it on the CommunityZero site >Danieel (?) set up. > >Mary/Katerine >> >>Roscelin, thanks for that awesome link! There are many stores on that list >>that were not yet in my Favorite Places. This will greatly expand my >>sources. >> >>I wonder if someone could make a page where we could all add our supply sites >>to create a "master list" of costuming supplies? >> >>--Gillian, who doesn't know a darn thing about web design _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 00:42:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10295 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I4SIE20085; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4SHN26245; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f72.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.72]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4E7N22341 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:14:02 -0700 Received: from 64.217.73.111 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:14:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.217.73.111] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2002 04:14:02.0539 (UTC) FILETIME=[8C71DFB0:01C22E11] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:14:02 +0000 Status: RO I graduated High School in 1989, and had Home Ec in Middle School (6,7, & 8). This would have been middle 80's. I also had Art Class, Orchestra, Choir, and Shop during those three years. (Choir for all three, actually.) I didn't really learn anything from Home Ec, as that was around the time my father died, and I pretty much "checked out" of the world. As for where I learned to sew - mainly through Osmosis. My mother has sewing and needlework awards from before I was born, and I grew up watching her. She gave me myfirst sewing machine - her old one, and she also gave me my first new machine - an Elna 2002. I still use it - made my wedding dress on it. Mary/Katerine > > > > Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how many >of > > us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting >the > > declining home sewing industry... > > > > --Gillian the seamstress > > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 00:43:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10300 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:43:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I4T2E20132; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4T2N26473; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4G6N22844 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:16:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A1B23B0022A; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:18:58 -0500 Message-ID: <006101c22e11$d8dd51e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:16:10 -0400 Status: RO Sarah, I too was told by my high school counselor that people who took Home Ec. that many years shouldn't go to college. I don't remember why I swayed toward going to college, but I will always remember that. I also had a college professor tell me that I couldn't teach school. Fooled her many times over! Had an international marketing professor tell me in 1996 that the global marketplace would never work. I love when people tell me I can't... it makes me more determined that I can. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 00:47:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10311 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I4XHE20332; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4X6N27640; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4RSN26007 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:27:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g6I4Qtno003975 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:26:56 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT-looking for a book--Help! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020717190410.37216.qmail@web21309.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:36:09 -0700 Status: RO Kate, I dug the books out of the basement library (I bought the house specifically because there was a room that I could put wall to wall bookcases on 3 sides. Now I find that they still aren't enough!) Now I wonder if they are the ones you are looking for because they are for an exhibition that took place in Heidelberg Castle in 1986. Still, think and tell me if these are the ones you are looking at. Die Renaissance: Im Deutschen Sudwestern Zwischen Reformation und Dreissigjahrigem Krieg (sorry, I don't do umlauts) Meaning The Renaissance in Southwestern Germany between the Reformation and the 30 Years War. It is in two large, 11.5 x 14 x 2 inch books with white covers. Volume one has a cherub with an arrow on the front, and volume two has a woodcarving of Adam and Eve with the apple tree. Says on the cover: Eine Ausstellung des Landes Baden-Wurttemberg veranstaltet vom Badischen Landesmuseum Karlsruhe which Babelfish translates as: An exhibition of the country bathe Wurttemberg organizes Karlsruhe from the federal state museum of Baden OR An exhibition of the Country of Baden-Wurttemburg organized by the Federal State Museum of Karlsruhe. Publication info for these is: Copyright Badisches Landesmuseum Karlsruhe 1986, Printed in Germany, Reproducktions: Reigger Reprotechnik GmbH, Karlsruhe, Satz und Druck: Engelhardt & Bauer, Druck- und Verlagsgesellschaft mgH, Karlsruhe, Bindung: Joseph Spinner, Grossbuchbinderei GmbH, Otterweier, and the ISBN is: 3-923132-08-5. If these aren't the books, they are still full of wonderful pictures of German stuff from the time of the Rennaisance to the 30 Years War! To my knowledge there weren't paperbacks for the exhibit. These cost around $50 for the pair at the time. Hope this helps Regina/Wanda -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of kj green Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:04 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-looking for a book--Help! Thank you for the information! I have some other questions: Do you remember if there was a house associated with the show? Or, who managed/directed the show? Was it School of History at Heidelberg or School of Art? Were there paperbacks? Any help would be most appreciated! kate --- Wanda Pease wrote: > If the is the pair of books I have it was published > as a catalogue for an > exhibition in Heidelberg back in 1989. This may be > why there is no ISBN > number. There weren't many copies > printed, but it does have some lovely pictures. > > Regina Romsey > > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > I've searched the database available to us, but no > luck. > > > > Kate Bunting > > Library, University of Derby > > > > >>> macailith@yahoo.com 07/17/02 02:10am >>> > > Greetings to the list. > > > > I'm looking for a book(s) published in 1989 by > > Marshall Cavendish Ltd called "Die Renaissance." > It's > > at least a 2 volume set (a friend has volume 2). > > There's no ISBN and no editor listed. > > > > It's in German, but I suspect it was published in > > London. I happened across another book published > by > > Marshall Cavendish Ltd and the city listed was > London. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 00:56:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10342 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:56:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I4g2E20667; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4g1N00152; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I4TbN26645 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A4DB3C8022A; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:32:27 -0500 Message-ID: <007d01c22e13$ba79dc80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <005401c22dc6$082963e0$20a0f7c6@marnadav> <006b01c22dd7$97438b80$01fea8c0@vaio> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:29:38 -0400 Status: RO Rowena, I couldn't help but giggle on how you got to teach Home Ec. I got stuck teaching Math to middle school kids. I felt that God was punishing me for taking all those years of taking Home Ec. and not upper maths and sciences. I failed college math three times. I was hired to teach computers, but had one open classtime, so they stuck me with math. I too taught to whatever a student's level was. If I had advanced students in the class, they got to be my teaching assistants. We just went to the guidance counselor and had them change their class name to teaching asst. I learned when teaching in public schools that everyone learns at a different paces. I also taught special ed. for two years... also learned a lot of different ways to teach someone. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rowena" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 > I should point out that although I am now a FaCS (Home Ec) teacher (and > ALSO certified to teach History (social studies), Business, and elementary), > I HATED HATED HATED taking Home Ec in the 1970s. I NEVER would have wanted > to be a teacher, and NOT that subject! > Because it was mandatory to take it, and I didn't get to take shop. > Because I was a very independent only child, I could already cook, and bake, > and sew, and was constantly in trouble because I was going faster that the > teacher wanted, and did not work well with others. )That's a problem I > still have - I often could get the whole thing done while other people are > still talking about it, and have to squelch myself from just starting!) > Because every pattern I wanted to make, was too complicated for what we were > allowed to do - even if I had already made it. > I try very hard to NOT teach that way, to let the brighter or faster or > just more skilled ones not have to stay in step with the rest of the class. > Even though I sometimes miss, and the ones skilled at hiding and doing > nothing manage to do nothing, until I catch up with them - and then those > skilled at stalling manage to fail, and with their parents, that is usually > all my fault for not staying on top of the little darlings. But I risk it > time and again, because I only hated doing things because of the instructor > and the methods - I love actually doing all of it, and try to pass that on > to all of the students. > right now, jr high kids in New York State are mandated to take a quarter > (10 weeks) of art and of health, and 30 weeks of FaCS (Home Ec) and 30 weeks > of Technology (Do NOT call it shop, or risk the wrath of those very handy > instructors!) > I had a wonderful mother who sewed (and now makes me draft > patterns for her > Rowena > > and do the fitting on my hard to fit baby sister) and a Beloved home-ec > > teacher Mrs. Prickett- who made me do a tailored jacket when the rest of > the > > kids were making pillowcases, and design/draft my own prom dress my > junior > > year, because I needed a challenge. *grin* It was a small school but she > (snipped) > > We had the mandatory Home Ec classes, in > > >junior high, where I wasn't allowed to sew as well as I knew how because > it > > >was in advance of what the rest of the class was doing. The boys > couldn't > > >take cooking or sewing at this time either. All I remember from the > > >cooking unit was that once I had to figure out the cost of two stewed > > >prunes to the nearest tenth of a cent. To this day I'm not much of a > > >cook. But I sewed my first historical, hat, purse, and dress, in 1971. > > > > > >Kayta > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 01:31:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10479 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:31:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I5H3E22272; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I5H2N09855; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I54AN06321 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZF00EA0I2WH7@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:04:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 In-reply-to: <006101c22e11$d8dd51e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020717215350.00c95bc0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:03:04 -0700 Status: RO >I love when people tell me I can't... it makes me more determined that I >can. I think that's why they tell people they only have like six months to live - makes them fight the illness harder. And I was told that most physics discoveries are made by graduate students who haven't been told that said discoveries are impossible. (I believe that Fermat's last theorem was proved by someone who was too late to class to have heard the Prof tell everyone it was un-provable.) Obligatory costume content: I have discovered that paper dolls from, say, the 1940s or 50s are a wonderful source of period costume ideas, especially if they are in colour. E-bay has lots of these, but don't bother searching for 'antique', because all you get are the Tom Tierney/Dover ones. Instead, search for 'vintage', to find the actual made-back-then ones. (Somehow 'vintage' is older than 'antique' - I don't know how that happened.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 01:47:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10566 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I5W3E22889; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I5W2N13810; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I5HiN10067 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g6I5HAnq026228 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:17:12 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C22DE0.FC92D280" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <179.b6b08af.2a6701bb@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:26:25 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C22DE0.FC92D280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Home Ec and Shop classes I took were in 1960 while in Junior High. Everyone took one semester of Home Ec (boys too!) and everyone took wood shop (girls too!). Since we got to play with sewing machines, and take them apart and oil them, the boys weren't terribly miserable making their aprons, and the chocolate chip cookie dough seemed to disappear awfully quickly after being made and before being cooked. In wood shop the girls were almost uniformly wusses, cowering from the might of a jig saw :-) Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Azelana@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 10:22 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics << We could take "home economics" or sewing classes in school. (Boys were more likely to take "shop" classes that included woodworking and similar skills. Today I gather that the names of the classes are less gender-oriented, and students are welcome to take whichever they want, but I suspect some noticeable gender division remains in class makeup.)>> I graduated in '93 in NY. In middle school/junior high students of both sexes took 2 mandatory classes: Home Economics and Tech. Home-Ec taught basic cooking and sewing, while Tech was architecture, electronic circuits, basic machines, and technical drawing. There was only one class level of each, so there was no opportunity to continue your education in that area. So, for my school at least, the gender make-up was exactly the same as the gender make-up of the school itself. Now I can carve an aerodynamic CO2 car from a block of wood, while my brother can sew on his own buttons. LOL Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how many of us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting the declining home sewing industry... --Gillian the seamstress ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C22DE0.FC92D280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The=20 Home Ec and Shop classes I took were in 1960 while in Junior High.  = Everyone took one semester of Home Ec (boys too!) and everyone took wood = shop=20 (girls too!).  Since we got to play with sewing machines, and take = them=20 apart and oil them, the boys weren't terribly miserable making their = aprons, and=20 the chocolate chip cookie dough seemed to disappear awfully quickly = after being=20 made and before being cooked.  In wood shop the girls were almost = uniformly=20 wusses, cowering from the might of a jig saw :-)
 
Regina=20 Romsey
-----Original Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com=20 [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of=20 Azelana@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 10:22=20 AM
To: h-costume@net.indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] = Re: shop=20 and home economics

<< We
could take = "home=20 economics" or sewing classes in school. (Boys were more
likely to = take=20 "shop" classes that included woodworking and similar
skills. Today = I gather=20 that the names of the classes are less
gender-oriented, and = students are=20 welcome to take whichever they want, but
I suspect some noticeable = gender=20 division remains in class makeup.)>>

I graduated in '93 in NY.  In middle = school/junior=20 high students of both sexes took 2 mandatory classes: Home Economics = and=20 Tech.  Home-Ec taught basic cooking and sewing, while Tech was=20 architecture, electronic circuits, basic machines, and technical=20 drawing.  There was only one class level of each, so there was no = opportunity to continue your education in that area.  So, for my = school=20 at least, the gender make-up was exactly the same as the gender = make-up of the=20 school itself.  Now I can carve an aerodynamic CO2 car from a = block of=20 wood, while my brother can sew on his own buttons. LOL

Can = everybody=20 add their own experiences?  I'd be curious to see how many of us = are=20 still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting the = declining=20 home sewing industry...

--Gillian the seamstress=20
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C22DE0.FC92D280-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 02:02:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11529 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:02:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I5m4E23572; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I5m2N18212; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I5XwN14307 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:33:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m127.in-tch.com [216.166.191.127]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6I5K8r24703 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D36549E.16D06D7E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing in UK(WAS: different velvets) References: <1DF5BC77D47@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <006901c22da6$75738040$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:39:42 -0600 Status: RO Kewl! I'm sooooo glad to see someone else (besides me) get the True Fabric Jones from the others on this list! --Sue, slowly going through her own closets and weeding things out.... Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > > I was thinking the same thing. I sew at the kitchen table, and it tends to > look like there has been been a massive explosion at a thread factory! > > But I did finish my lavender brocade Italian!! I put it up on eBay > though--it's beautiful. but it's synthetic, and I just don't want to wear it > now. You all have infected me! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 02:09:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA15431 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:09:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I5srE23810; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:54:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I5sqN19863; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:54:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I5hQN16847 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m127.in-tch.com [216.166.191.127]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6I5Tar27005 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:29:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3656D6.BF284EAB@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:49:10 -0600 Status: RO I miss my mom very much, but she couldn't sew worth sh--! I learned the bare basics from my 4-H instructors, and after that, I was pretty much self taught until I picked up a job or two working in the costume dept. for the University I attended....and then there were the 7 (!) years I spent doing professional tent/tipi sewing.... I am so, so glad I can sew "for fun" now, and not because I *have to*! --sue Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > But the very best thing is still if you can learn to sew from your mom :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 02:18:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA20189 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:18:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I645E24218; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I644N22485; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I5nkN18683 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m127.in-tch.com [216.166.191.127]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6I5Zur28351 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:35:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D365852.EB58C8C1@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) References: <1DFA48D5F02@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:55:30 -0600 Status: RO Yeah....sigh.... I'm actually thinking of ordering some silk twill from Dharma Trading, and doing a whole gown in either tansy or knapweed (they're both growing rampant around here.....) --Sue, too many centuries, too many colors, not enough time Teddy wrote: > > > > Must be local-water thing, or something. The tansy-dyed wools done by > > my friends were very lovely shades of an almost olive-green. The > > silks were similar, but lighter. --sue > > That sounds much nicer. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 02:51:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05813 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:51:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I6amE25077; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:36:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I6ajN00614; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:36:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I6NuN27521 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:23:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-116-13.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.116.13]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIK35116; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:23:44 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00c701c22e24$d53de960$b66d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:32:04 +0100 Status: RO Don't you have regular TB vacines there ? With the test ? Most people of my generation 40 ish and earlier are immune. Wheras most youngsters today arn't, because they no longer have any exposure to it. There were several social implications to having TB and it wasn't completly accepted as trendy and arty in British Society, amoungst the general society. Interestingly most European whose areas were subjected to the Black death have a high immune system in general, logical those who didn't died & never got to breed on. Absinthe was largly replaced by the aniseed drinks in France, Pernod, Richard etc which also are greenish & turn a milky white once water is added, as far as I know they no longer have wormwood in, so I think the colour change is not due to wormwood. The high alcohol content is interesting. Onto costume apart from the film being rather odd. What did people think of the costumes ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 03:02:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12391 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:02:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I6l3E25356; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I6l1N03017; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I6XfN29731 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A1C6126601DE; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:35:50 -0500 Message-ID: <00e801c22e24$d8469580$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C22E03.504B7FE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:32:08 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C22E03.504B7FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regina... this sure was forward for 1960. Where did you live? I just recalled why my 7th grade home ec teacher said WHY boys weren't allowed to take home ec. Someone asked in our class. She pointed to the sewing machine pedal on the floor. "See that, boys think that pedal is to a race car. So we don't allow them in the home ec lab!" I think of her saying that everytime I teach my sons how to drive. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C22E03.504B7FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Regina... this sure was forward for 1960.  Where did you = live?
 
I just recalled why my 7th grade home ec teacher said WHY boys = weren't=20 allowed to take home ec. Someone asked in our class.  She = pointed to=20 the sewing machine pedal on the floor.  "See that, boys think that = pedal is=20 to a race car.  So we don't allow them in the home ec lab!"
 
I think of her saying that everytime I teach my sons how to = drive. =20
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
 
------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C22E03.504B7FE0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 03:31:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01974 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:31:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I7H2E26251; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I7H1N10010; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I77EN07434 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:07:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A9CB66B0212; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:10:03 -0500 Message-ID: <010e01c22e29$97bedcc0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] YIPPEEE!!!!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:06:08 -0400 Status: RO FINALLY... after 2-3 years searching for photos, intense battles at eBay, exchanging my kids to gypsies for costly photos, and one year of layout, design, and scanning images... yes, a lot went into this site... the website, "A Brush with History: Vintage Hairstyles" is up on The Gallery. http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Women/menu.htm The time frame for the photos is from the late 1860s-1915. I have one photo of a 1920s girl. The site consists of 51 photos of ladies' and girls' hairstyles with long hair. Here is a breakdown of the styles and number of photos: Girls: 19 Ladies' with Braids: 6 Ladies with Ringlets: 11 Ladies with Long Flowing Hair: 15 Each photo has a circa fashion date, hairstyle description, costume description, all information recorded about the photo for genealogical purposes, and in some cases the sitter's name. Some big thank you-s go to some loaner photos from Marna Jean Davis and Linda Thompson, both from h-costume. Jennie Chancey and Marna Jean assisted me with dating the fashions and the costume descriptions. It was a joy to work with all of them on this project! I hope you all enjoy the fruits of our labor. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 04:05:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28439 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:05:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I7p5E27279; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:51:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I7p3N18121; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6I7abN14859 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718073636.5313.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:36:36 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Hooray for mothers, was Re: shop and home economics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:36:36 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Mary Temple wrote: > > As for where I learned to sew - mainly through Osmosis. My mother has sewing > and needlework awards from before I was born, and I grew up watching her. > She gave me myfirst sewing machine - her old one, and she also gave me my > first new machine - an Elna 2002. I still use it - made my wedding dress on > it. I guess I must feel very mellow and soppy due to this blasted flu, but so many have said that their moms taught them how to sew and do needlework. I remember sitting on my mum's lap because I couldn't reach the pedal of the sewing machine and making the first simple clothes for my beloved Barbie doll (should tell you something that I used the Ken dolls as cleaners, gardeners, cooks and chauffeurs for my career-Baries ;-) She taught me all I know about sewing and knitting and crocheting (admittedly she didn't embroider, I started one day and was able to do it, I don't have a clue why!) and she still makes much better and nicer 21st century clothes than I can. I thought I'd just say a quick HOORAY for mums! Nicole - still picking up the phone to germany and wanting to talk to my mum when feeling rotten or when something extra nice happens. ;-))) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 04:47:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22145 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I8X2E28954; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I8X1N28060; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I8IAN24543 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id BAA06051 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:38:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207180838.BAA06051@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO "Melanie Wilson" wrote: > > Don't you have regular TB vacines there ? With the test ? Most people of my > generation 40 ish and earlier are immune. Wheras most youngsters today > arn't, because they no longer have any exposure to it. There were several > social implications to having TB and it wasn't completly accepted as trendy > and arty in British Society, amoungst the general society. The AIDS epidemic and heavy immigration from the far east have turned up Izonosid-resistant strains of TB. Health workers are required to be tested for TB, then they can decide about the vaccine (it's not without its own risks). When I worked at a detox unit, we all got tested for both TB and hepatitis because of the potential exposure. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 04:55:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22179 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:55:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I8fDE29189; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I8fBN29934; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I8KCN25077 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arweb02la (unverified [10.1.201.102]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:16:17 -0700 thread-index: AcIuM2PAv/TZcS5hRcS8sJi5yJDkOA== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, Message-ID: <009001c22e33$63c09350$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0091_01C22DF8.B761BB50" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:16:17 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01C22DF8.B761BB50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Linda, which village was it?? Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > They were so different that looking back feels like seeing a piece of living > history. My school was in a village high in the Pennines, an area of lonely > hills in northern England. ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01C22DF8.B761BB50 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Linda, which village was it??

Freyalyn


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Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message----->

> They were so different that looking back feels like seeing a piece of living
> history. My school was in a village high in the Pennines, an area of lonely
> hills in northern England. ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01C22DF8.B761BB50-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 05:15:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22308 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:15:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I90kE29790; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I90iN04972; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:00:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6I8c7N29235 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718083806.34280.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:38:06 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Burda Mag alive and well, was Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020717202745.68448.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:38:06 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Megan Irvine wrote: > Yes, I get all the extra issues, except for the kids fashion (I don't > have any kids). Plus and Petites come once a year and then > Pantst/Skirts/etc and the Beginners issue come twice a year. The > monthly magazine is called "Burda World of Fashion" and has about 60 > patterns in it. Maybe you could get it through > http://www.glpnews.com/ in the UK? The ordering page does list prices > for airmail to other countries. Good luck. Thanks again megan, may I also say to everyone that these patterns are indeed superb for modern wear and highly recommendable (but they don't go to very big sizes, I think German size 44 used to be the biggest one in the normal Burdas). I went to their web site http://www.hubert-burda.de and am contacting their service department. I'm NOT ordering something from Germany via America *winks and laughs* That would be silly regarding the postage and I do want the magazines in german, would be nice not to forget my language completely. :-) Thanks for reminding me that Burda is still out there Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 05:19:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22317 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:19:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I951E29916; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I950N06207; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I8iVN00895 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:44:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24517.; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:45:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:44:25 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [[h-cost] Re: shop and home economics] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6I8iVN00895 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:43:50 +0100 Status: RO Shea wrote: >>> In one shop I made pillow furniture from beautiful fabrics What is pillow furniture? I went to an all-girls school in the 1960s, so what you call "shop" wasn't an option. We did needlework for years, but for some reason the only ones who got to do cookery were the half of the class who were weakest at Latin after we had all learnt it for a year at about age 12. (I was good at languages, so never did any cookery at school; learnt the basics from my Mum and then taught myself.) In junior school we had an eccentric but efficient sewing teacher - I still have the gingham apron I made then, and can still tie it round my waist! (It was supposed to fasten with a button to teach us to make a buttonhole, but I was so slow I never got that far.) The teacher we had in later years tended to concentrate on those girls who were best at sewing and left me to muddle through as best I could. I remember starting on a blouse which never did get finished. I learnt more from my Mum who is no needlewoman either. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 05:35:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22368 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:35:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6I9KjE00433; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:20:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I9KiN08056; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6I8nGN02093 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718084916.33641.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:49:16 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:49:16 +0100 (BST) Status: RO I don't know how many from the UK are here on this list, but I have been thinking about this for a long time, not having a clue how to make it happen. I am sitting alone here in the South East of England, being the only one in the house who sews, and more often than I like going mad with sewing away all on my own. I was just wondering, has anybody ever thought about a kind of sewing circle? To met perhaps every two months or less, or whenever is feasible, perhaps somewhere in the Midlands to sew for a weekend? It's just one of these ideas that has been stuck with me for a while now. Any ideas, or would anyone be interested at all? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 06:20:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22495 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:20:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IA6AE01912; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IA62N19352; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I9uSN17048 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK8KJIII0G000P2U@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:56:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK8KIZKFZM000IF4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:55:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:52:04 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:51:48 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.130) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:51:45 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: e: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, In-reply-to: <200207171719.g6HHJiN19532@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1F27DCF7AFE@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:51:45 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > (No, I won't sing the Mary Poppins "Spoonful of sugar" nursery > cleaning song. No, I won't or it will be with me all day!) Awww... but it's one of my favourites - I even know the whistling part that the robin does. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 06:41:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22585 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:41:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IAQ3E02525; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAQ2N23964; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IACCN20947 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:12:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p313-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.59] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17V8GY-0006Sl-00; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:12:10 +1200 Message-ID: <001901c22e43$91549040$3bcfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <00c701c22e24$d53de960$b66d4ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT and On T Moulin Rouge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:12:04 +1200 Status: RO > Don't you have regular TB vacines there ? With the test ? Do you have any idea how that comes across? Anyway. http://www.adm.monash.edu.au/ohse/documents/policies/Procedures_for_TB.html While we aren't in Oz that's pretty well the procedure so you only get the vaccine if you need it. I just don't know why we were not checked up on. I suspect the community health workers expected the chool health nurses to follow up and vice versa. Why no one listened when I mentioned the test.. I dunno. Maybe they couldn't belive that a middle class white kid could be in a situation where she would be in high risk. Most people of my > generation 40 ish and earlier are immune. Wheras most youngsters today > aren't, because they no longer have any exposure to it. There were several > social implications to having TB and it wasn't completly accepted as trendy > and arty in British Society, amoungst the general society. We're talking 19th C. And I never said it was trendy. However when you have many many women in Opera's and plays and novels dying of it you have to ask why. > Onto costume apart from the film being rather odd. What did people think of > the costumes ? Well they weren't supposed to be authentic at all. Rather a matronly era for fashion (mature look and mono bosom and all) that really wouldn't have appealed to the audience the movie was aimed at. Not kidies but not the blue rinnce brigade either. I loved them. Not all but when you see the costumes on exhibit... the can can dresses are just beautiful works of art. Nini's (waspish black and yellow.. the scheme is repeated through out her time on screen, saving one ill looking green suit) and the Spanish can can dress (which I never actually saw on screen, I supsect you'll see it on the dvd with the special features) are stunning. http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/moulinrouge is my little collection of links to costume exhibits and galleries as well as recreations of the costumes. They difinately have a big fan following. Weird is good. Not all were as successful as they might have been, but for what Baz was after.. it works. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 06:51:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22608 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IAavE02835; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:36:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAasN26256; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAELN21408 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK8KNS84M8000P2U@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:14:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK8KMXEC5Y000IF4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:58:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:55:13 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:54:36 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.130) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:54:35 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cope on display in V&A In-reply-to: <200207171719.g6HHJiN19532@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1F289CA7524@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:54:35 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > You must have a picture of it then... Of cousre, you'll then find it > > was actually a dark blue brocade altercloth and that I've just > > misremebered the details.... Teddy > > Oh, Teddy darling, you could do us one even better. *You*, who > live so close to the actual source, could go to the V&A and look at > it and tell us. That way we *know* that we aren't mixing up copes. > ;) OK, Kat, you talked me into it. When I take Drea fabric shopping on Saturday, I'll try and find time for to call in and take a look at the cope. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 06:59:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22632 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:59:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IAiiE03020; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:44:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAihN28052; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:44:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAUMN24864 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK8LN1USTC000ZTV@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:30:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK8LMXJH440010YR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:28:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:24:17 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:23:41 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.130) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:23:36 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT School sports(WAS: Sewing) England vs US, In-reply-to: <200207171719.g6HHJiN19532@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1F305D8208E@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:23:36 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > generally ridiculed by other students for not being sports > inclined. Ah, love that gender equality thing. I'm hearing that > schools are starting to clue into the hell of forced competitive > sports in elementary schools and are starting to do away with games > like dodge ball (the bane of my childhood existence) because they > do more emotional damage than physical enhancement. And speaking as > someone who once was a very small, very thin little girl who was > more of a dreamer than a sports goddess, it's about damn time! Don't even get me *started* on that one, Sarah... and as for the monsters who end ups as school PE/sports teachers.. My opinion is that nayone who shows an interest in becoming one should be forced to undergo stringent psychological testing and never be allow *near* a child. They seem to be specially selceted for their sadistic tendencies and the pleasure they take in holding those with no interest in, or talent for, sports and physical exercise up to riducule. But I digress... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 07:15:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22689 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IB0iE03588; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:00:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IB0gN01912; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (relay04.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAj4N28142 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 30967 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2002 10:45:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.194.154]) (envelope-sender ) by relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Jul 2002 10:45:03 -0000 Message-ID: <003201c22e47$fd67f700$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: Cc: References: <4.3.1.2.20020717114511.00c9dab0@mail.frys.com> <002001c22de2$2f5a48a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:43:44 -0400 Status: RO Home Ec was involved so many different subjects. When at UNM I > was taking education classes, child development, consumer behavior, > nutrition, AND sewing classes. Some H.E. schools moved to textiles dept > under fashion dept. Consumer Behavior is actually now part of the Marketing > business school... I had to repeat this class in my Jr. year at Virginia > Commonwalth Univ. because I took it at a sophomore level at UNM and they > wanted it in my jr. year. The sewing courses are taught in fashion dept AND > the costume design dept of theater. This is how I ended up with enough courses in SO many different areas that I pushed a bit and now have certification to teach in 4 different areas. I didn't actually take a Home Ec course, ever - I found a way to duplicate everything to satisfy NYS without dealig with the one obnoxious NYS college that still offers it as a degree. The plus side is that I have a subject degree ( AS in Business, and a BS in a double major of Business and Child & Family Development) and got all my education type courses in my Masters program (MST - Master of the Science of Teaching). It is MUCH tougher to do that way, but I got a lot more than most teachers I know. (I really shouldn't have had to explain to a history teacher that A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court is not an accurate description of medieval life, or of anything in history at all.) > > In our state, Virginia, the Home Ec. dept has been completely dissolved. > Every high school is required to offer a fashion program. (snipped) The students do not sew. As my > professors told me about the high school fashion courses... a good many of the HS students want to be models or fashion buyers. All of a sudden I am tempted to move to Virginia! Since I work at a tiny school (we graduate about 20 to 25 every year) there is always a danger of my job being cut down to just the 2 mandated classes - in other words, just 2 periods a day. I have enough fashion contacts down in NYC or Long Island that I get to show the kids BOTH aspects (when they let me teach it,which right now is once about every 5 years). But what you are describing is the case here, too, for most places. A friend of mine is the designer for a lot of the JC Penny lines. Her boss and she had a few rough years when he kept adding the contracts, and then thought that instead of giving her a raise, he would just hire other people. Not one graduate could sew or make a mock-up pattern - and not one person they could find could. Anyone who can is getting paid some fairly high bucks down in NYC! She was appalled to learn that colleges are teaching about the same attitude - design is all, they can always hire some "sewing monkey" to make the patterns work and make a mock-up. \ Another friend has the same experience - she is running her own historical clothing business (FashionsinTime.com) and was told she didn't have enough experience to enroll in a Fashion program because she didn't have the art, specifically drawing, background. They didn't teach any sewing, and didn't count any designing/making experience, because the only programs involved Fashion. All of us don't see how you separate them, but then, we aren't prepared to go spend money on more college to find out if they are teaching anything actually useful! Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 07:28:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22727 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:28:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IBE4E04003; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IBE2N05298; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IB06N01764 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13854 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2002 11:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.194.154]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Jul 2002 11:00:06 -0000 Message-ID: <00a001c22e4a$17750dc0$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <3D3656D6.BF284EAB@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:58:47 -0400 Status: RO > > But the very best thing is still if you can learn to sew from your mom :-) I should have added that my Mom can't sew - can't even cut out a pattern so that it ends up the same size as the piece of paper that the pattern is. And no one in our family could ever figure out where I got my love of embroidery - if they wouldn't let me take books when I got dragged to family parties, then I brought embroidery. On the other hand, my grandma tried to teach me to knit when I was 13. For some reason, they thought it would take my mind off having my tonsils out. So grandma went along to teach me both before and after. I detest knitting, never could do it, just remember my mom whomping me for being so nasty (duh!), and to this day, STILL just want to be left alone when I am feeling sick or miserable or hurt. I know I was a strange child to them, always doing these strange crafts or trying to read even while eating, but why they tried to teach me anything right after I had my tonsils out is still beyond me! I still want my Mom's old Singer that I learned to sew on - it certainly didn't get much use from her! Rowena (who currently has 2 FULL rooms of fabric, and should be sewing instead of all this other stuff!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 07:31:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22741 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:31:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IBGwE04129; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:16:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IBGvN05998; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IB15N02012 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F84A10F676 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <011e01c22e4a$2546a6c0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <1F27DCF7AFE@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:59:06 -0400 Status: RO I prefer "It's a Jolly Holdiay With Mary" myself.... Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 6:51 AM Subject: e: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, > > > (No, I won't sing the Mary Poppins "Spoonful of sugar" nursery > > cleaning song. No, I won't or it will be with me all day!) > > Awww... but it's one of my favourites - I even know the whistling > part that the robin does. > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 07:47:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22764 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:47:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IBWjE04602; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IBWiN09616; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:32:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IBKdN06829 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:20:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK8NGYHNO0000YEA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:20:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK8NGXT0GO0010YR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:20:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:16:41 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:15:56 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.130) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:15:49 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 In-reply-to: <200207172255.g6HMtCN04771@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1F3E4D07289@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:15:49 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Because every pattern I wanted to make, was too complicated for > what we were allowed to do - even if I had already made it. I got that one - except I got my way. For my exam pice I chose to make a party dress for my young cousin and was tild by the teacher that she wouldn't suggest that complicated a pattern for an A-level (that's A for advanced for those not used to the old English exam system - 2 years further on from the level I was at ) student let alone a lowly O (for ordinary) level student like me. It had a curved yoke and a full gathered skirt with a ruffled hem and a contrasting front skirt panel to sinulate an apron.... Looking back it wasn't at all what I'd choose now (pink floral print cotton, contrasted with white cotton printed with a pink floral design in the same pattern for the skirt and apron, with a lace trimmed white cotton blouse-section. I made it and got top marks for the practical part of the exam - but barely scraped through with a pass-mark due to the abysmal written-work grade I got.... But at least I passed and my cousin loved the dress and passed it on to her younger sister when she outgrew it and it was *used* and appreciated instead of something made just for the exam and thrown or given away afterwards because no-one had a use for it. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23070 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICXRE06317; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICXQN23729; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40014.mail.yahoo.com (web40014.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.54]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IBGkN05947 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:16:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718111640.2280.qmail@web40014.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40014.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:16:40 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020718084916.33641.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:16:40 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Nicole This is a great idea. Count me in. I'm in Hertfordshire, but can travel. My other half isn't into living history at all and gets quite fed up with the endless round of sewing and embroidery that I tend to subject him to. Not to mention the risk of pins in the carpet. it would make a wonderful change to sew with like-minded people. I enjoy it when our group gets together at events to sew, but that doesn't happen very often. Count me in. --- N Kipar wrote: > I don't know how many from the UK are here on this list, but I have been > thinking about this for a long time, not having a clue how to make it happen. I > am sitting alone here in the South East of England, being the only one in the > house who sews, and more often than I like going mad with sewing away all on my > own. I was just wondering, has anybody ever thought about a kind of sewing > circle? To met perhaps every two months or less, or whenever is feasible, > perhaps somewhere in the Midlands to sew for a weekend? > It's just one of these ideas that has been stuck with me for a while now. > Any ideas, or would anyone be interested at all? > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23076 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICXgE06331; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICXfN23808; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAiaN28029 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK8M80U3M8001245@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:44:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK8M7TLFT20010YR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:44:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:40:18 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:40:06 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.130) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:40:01 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing in UK(WAS: different velvets) In-reply-to: <200207171927.g6HJR9N03592@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1F34BE12858@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:40:00 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > Jean, it's obvious that you have never seen me sewing > > > >Teddy > > Not unless your sewing propels dust into every part of the house like > power sanding does! NO but the threads and snips of fabric get into every nook and cranny throughout the house... It's not possible for me to be tidy when sewing - I track stuff through the hose no-matter what. The 'phone will ring in the livingroom, I'll need to go up to the storerom to hunt for another peice of fabric, I'll realize it's raining and the windows in all the rooms upstairs need to be closed *now* etc.... Then Tom gets home and brings me a cup of decaf and long- sufferingly points out that he had just finished cleaning and tidying the house before he went out. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23077 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICXjE06347; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICXiN23839; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAkJN28500 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK8MACHM4W001245@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:46:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK8MAAN31M000Z42@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:46:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:42:19 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:42:14 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.130) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:42:09 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets In-reply-to: <200207171927.g6HJR9N03592@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1F355057170@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:42:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Quick and dirty version - another bit of velvet, especially that > disgusting yellow shade of curtains you find in charity shops! Nice tip, but *what* shade of yellow would that be? Teddy (who likes yellow and has made use of lots of differnet shades of secondhand velvet curtains) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23090 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICXmE06362; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICXlN23866; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g6IAlFA28750 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:47:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20020718044715.D8758@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] list admin reminder - PLEASE READ & SAVE Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:47:15 -0600 Status: RO I am going on vacation beginning 7/26, and I will be gone for 3 weeks. During that time, there will be only minimal list maintenance going on. Please read and save this info, as it will also help you in the future. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- This mailing list has not been run with Majordomo for more than a year now, so using majordomo commands or the majordomo email address *will not work*. It's a waste of your time. If you go to the web site listed at the bottom of each list message: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume you can access all admin functions. Go to the very last box on the bottom, where it says "To change your subscription (set options like digest and delivery modes, get a reminder of your password, or unsubscribe), enter your subscription email address:" Enter your email address, and hit 'edit options'. You will then see a new page which shows you your personal configurations, and allows you to unsubscribe, change to or from digest, set yourself 'no mail', and other options. You must enter your password for these to take effect, so there's a box at the top to have the password mailed to you if you need it. If you want to sub or unsub, you can also send email to h-costume-request@indra.com with the subject line of 'subscribe' or 'unsubscribe'. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- That's it, it's all pretty simple, but if you try to do things with Majordomo, you're not going to get anywhere. ...eliz, list admin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23094 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICXpE06385; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICXoN23891; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAnwN29374 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:49:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5033B10F64F for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00cf01c22e48$98b35dd0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <3D3656D6.BF284EAB@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:48:00 -0400 Status: RO My mom could sew ANYthing. I used to take her scraps and try to make things for my Barbie from them. Wrap skirts, shawls...you know, the really difficult stuff. But now that I think about it, my first exposure to any kind of historic costume was through my mom. The small town we lived in was celebrating its Centennial, and Mom made us all "Little House on the Prairie" dresses with matching sunbonnets. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, > I miss my mom very much, but she couldn't sew worth sh--! I learned the > bare basics from my 4-H instructors, and after that, I was pretty much > self taught until I picked up a job or two working in the costume dept. > for the University I attended....and then there were the 7 (!) years I > spent doing professional tent/tipi sewing.... > I am so, so glad I can sew "for fun" now, and not because I *have to*! > --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23098 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICXsE06394; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICXrN23919; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IApNN29754 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:51:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E964710F6DB for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d501c22e48$cacbc4b0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <1DFA48D5F02@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <3D365852.EB58C8C1@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:49:24 -0400 Status: RO That is gorgeous stuff, isn't it? I've had my eye on it for a while. The only thing holding me back from dying silk is that they say you need to steam set the dye--does anyone here do it differently, and how do you do it? Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) > Yeah....sigh.... > I'm actually thinking of ordering some silk twill from Dharma Trading, > and doing a whole gown in either tansy or knapweed (they're both growing > rampant around here.....) > --Sue, too many centuries, too many colors, not enough time > > Teddy wrote: > > > > > > > Must be local-water thing, or something. The tansy-dyed wools done by > > > my friends were very lovely shades of an almost olive-green. The > > > silks were similar, but lighter. --sue > > > > That sounds much nicer. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23103 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICXvE06408; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICXtN23944; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nemesis.systems.pipex.net (nemesis.systems.pipex.net [62.190.223.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6BK1F409420 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:01:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bella (usergh072.dsl.pipex.com [62.190.175.72]) by nemesis.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FC7B160002D3 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:01:09 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <009c01c22915$b6f114a0$0101a8c0@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: References: <7E7F24B0.772028DA.0F933E1F@aol.com> <3D2D89F4.BEFC5B6D@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Sewing an Anglo-Saxon Seam (was Fabric Prices) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:01:15 +0100 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Prices > In general, I've become pickier (especially in the last couple of > years--this list has had a strong influence on me and my levels of > commitment to having more authentic clothing!), and less willing to go > with the "it's good enough for a tourney event" stuff....This may partly > explain why my costuming interests, at least for the immediate future, > have shifted from the really late renaissance stuff, to earlier cultures > (early Anglo-Saxon, which is completely Ben's fault, Nicole ), or > Robin's Gothic Fitted Gowns. Someday I'll no doubt dabble in the > Elizabethans again, but right now I'm having loads of fun working with > earlier garments. I can feed my obsessive Authenticity Jones by > concentrating on period seam finishes, sewing techniques, etc. At last ! Someone to ask ! I'm about to start making an undertunic as worn by an early Anglo-Saxon lady, but I've been wondering how the fabric would have been sewn together and hemmed. Can anyone tell me, please ? My fabric is white 100% linen: should I use linen thread ? If so, (and as I make Bucks lace), I have several types of linen thread available: how should I choose ? And would the garment have been plain, or were there any decorative finishes ? Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23104 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICY0E06419; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICXwN23980; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:33:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6DFan400619 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id i.fe.1aa49b7f (657); Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:36:10 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: To: debanders60@hotmail.com, ute@library.umass.edu, aud.bergli@bmu.uib.no, bunton1@optushome.com.au, nicolaa@columbus.rr.com, dderoche@ovis.net, aleed@dnaco.net, earlydesignbooks@yahoogroups.com, weaverspl@toad.net, Freeman@delhi.K12.ca.us, hart.1@hccnet.nl, elezabethhekert@hotmail.com, h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10567 Subject: [h-cost] New Book! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:36:09 EDT Status: RO I am delighted to announce the forthcoming publication of my new book, "Here Be Wyverns: Hundreds of Patterns Graphed from Medieval Sources." With over 400 patterns and over 130 quotes from primary sources, it is sure to be an inspiration to anyone who can work from a graph. For information about the book, please visit my web site. www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html Nancy Spies Arelate Studio _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23110 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICY3E06431; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICY1N24005; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6GGXTN20783 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:33:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-139.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.139]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AII18112; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:32:38 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <019c01c22ce7$7fb17900$e6614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Medieval Wool, & dyeing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:40:28 +0100 Status: RO I've just finished a paper on Medieval wools and dyeing, if anyone is interested in a copy it is on ebay 1550155867 . I'm charging a bit for copies as it cost me quite alot in materials, testing etc. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:48:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23114 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:48:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICY8E06451; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICY7N24065; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IAscN00631 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:54:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK8MKQGFXS000ZNM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:54:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK8MKQ0K8G0010YR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:54:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:50:43 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:50:22 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.130) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:50:20 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, In-reply-to: <200207171927.g6HJR9N03592@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1F377B9403B@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:50:19 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Let's see, is there anyone on this list, in the UK, who actually > *likes* current fashion?? I find there's a *wider* range of "fashion" around now than there was in the 80's and 90's.... lots of "retro" styels are back in and there seems to be less pressure to conform to a particular one style/fashion scene than there was when I was a teenager (and had no idea what wa "in" and what was "out", besides being too shy to attempt wearing anything even vaguely fashionable). Personally, I love flares ("Not the distress-signal, the trousers, though possibly they are worn as a cry for help"... to quote Victoria Wood...) and baggy trousers and would happily buy and wear them if they were; (a) cheaper and (b) not made in such awful synthetic fabrics. One of the library assistants here is a trendy young thing and just yesterday he was wearing some very nice "Shaggy from Scooby-doo" style trousers that I was admiring until I got close enough to see what they were made of. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:49:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23118 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:49:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICYBE06459; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICY9N24091; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.190.223.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6CMc8414684 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bella (usergh072.dsl.pipex.com [62.190.175.72]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1248416000926 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:38:02 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000f01c229f4$cc047b40$0101a8c0@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Redcoat from 1794-6 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:38:08 +0100 Status: RO I thought some of you might be interested to see the following item, which came to me in a newsletter from this London (U.K.) museum:- Rare Uniform Acquired by National Army Museum A rare army 'redcoat' dating from the Napoleonic Wars has been acquired at auction by the National Army Museum, Chelsea, and has experts in the Museum's Department of Uniform intrigued by the details of its origin. The tunic belonged to Lt. Col. William Troughton, Commandant of the 129th Regiment of Foot. The buttons are inscribed "Coventry 129" and the epaulettes are adorned with the insignia of an elephant surmounted by a castle, inscribed "Coventry Regiment". Unusually, a third epaulette accompanies the coat. "We bid for the uniform because of its rarity - the 129th Foot existed for only two years between 1794-96 and there can be very few of its kind left in existence" explained Mrs Lesley Smurthwaite, Curator of Uniforms, Badges and Medals at the Museum. "Now we are looking forward to researching its past. We know that the elephant-and-castle motif is the crest of the City of Coventry, but we don't know why the soldiers of this regiment were known as 'The Gentlemen of Coventry' and what the regiment's links were with the area. What intrigues me most of all is the reason for the third epaulette!" The Museum is delighted that the redcoat was acquired alongside a portrait of Lt. Col. Troughton, painted by one of the foremost American portraitists of the time, Gilbert Stuart. Both items are in excellent condition but are likely to undergo some conservation or cleaning before being considered for display in the National Army Museum galleries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:49:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23122 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:49:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICYPE06523; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICYNN24201; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IBrFN14203 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK8OLS6MDS001468@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:52:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK8OLHDPNU0013V8@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:52:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:48:42 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:39:46 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.130) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:39:44 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? In-reply-to: <200207181108.g6IB8xN03980@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1F44A7F5B45@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:39:44 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I don't know how many from the UK are here on this list, but I > have been thinking about this for a long time, not having a clue > how to make it happen. I am sitting alone here in the South East of > England, being the only one in the house who sews, and more often > than I like going mad with sewing away all on my own. I was just > wondering, has anybody ever thought about a kind of sewing circle? > To met perhaps every two months or less, or whenever is feasible, > perhaps somewhere in the Midlands to sew for a weekend? It's just > one of these ideas that has been stuck with me for a while now. Any > ideas, or would anyone be interested at all? Love the sound of it, Nicole. A couple of groups that I'm in have similar things (The Far Isles Garb School and Needleworkers Guilds have occasional get togethers to work on costume, and the Costume guild UK has costume get togethers -sometimes at a hall so there's plenty of space to lay out stuff for cutting without getting in each other's way) The problem is usually figuring out a time/date and location that enough people can get to to make it worthwhile doing it. If you can get it together, I'd be interested. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 08:50:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23133 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:50:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ICY5E06441; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICY4N24033; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6I0mvN20722 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sandy (ppp-101.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.56.253.101]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6I0mVEv031538; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:48:34 +1000 Message-Id: <200207180048.g6I0mVEv031538@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Frojel Gotlandica" To: "New Varangian Guard list" Cc: "Kunskapen_Soka@yahoogroups.com" , "h-costume@indra.com" , "California_Viking_Age@yahoogroups.com" , "list-regia-na@lig.net" , "ECW-list" , "vikingtimes@yahoogroups.com" , "Norsefolk@yahoogroups.com" , "Metalcasting@yahoogroups.com" , "- Atlantia" , "- Authenticity List" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2502) For Windows 2000 (5.1.2600) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5448144=_=_=_" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Subject: [h-cost] Beads CD Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Frojel Gotlandica" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:48:27 +1000 Status: RO --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5448144=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All Just recieved my CD's on the Gotlandic beads from Professor Carlsson. Well and truelly worth the $10US great pics that can be magnified to see= lots of detail, so impressed I have put up a link on the frojel Harbour = Market page at http://www.frojel.com/_index.html it makes a great primary res= ource and I can hardly wait for the next in the series. Sandy Fr=94jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society. http://www.frojel.com/ frojel@frojel.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5448144=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All
Just recieved my CD's on the Gotlandic beads from Professor Carlsson. Well and truelly worth the $10US great pics that can be magnified to see=
lots of detail, so impressed I have put up a link on the frojel Harbour = Market
page at http://www.frojel.com/_index.html it makes a great primary resource=
and I can hardly wait for the next in the series.

Sandy
Fr=F6jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society.
= http://www.frojel.com/
frojel@frojel.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5448144=_=_=_-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 09:27:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23242 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:27:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IDDEE08375; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDDDN05875; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICtuN00726 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgT481sKWNcm5UKesmgSJ5XqyOxcTcqt/Q=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G7ZKM8BU; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:55:23 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cope on display in V&A Message-ID: <20020718.075331.-351753.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:53:31 -0500 Status: RO Hey Teddy, Wave 'Hi' to Drea for me! Karen On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:54:35 +0000 (GMT) Teddy writes: > > OK, Kat, you talked me into it. > > When I take Drea fabric shopping on Saturday, I'll try and find time > > for to call in and take a look at the cope. > > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 09:27:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23246 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:27:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IDD5E08358; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDD4N05829; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ICtdN00639 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17295 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2002 12:55:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.194.154]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Jul 2002 12:55:38 -0000 Message-ID: <002b01c22e5a$3bb2c0a0$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Book! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:54:19 -0400 Status: RO > I am delighted to announce the forthcoming publication of my new book, "Here > Be Wyverns: Hundreds of Patterns Graphed from Medieval Sources." With over > 400 patterns and over 130 quotes from primary sources, it is sure to be an > inspiration to anyone who can work from a graph. For information about the > book, please visit my web site. > > www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html Saw it on Early Design, and sent you a check yesterday. I love your other book on bands, even though I never seem to have time to learn or do even simple weaving - I keep sewing or embroidering with what free time I have. So I am really looking forward to your book. Hope you will have it for sale at Pennsic, where I KNOW people will drool over it. We sell clothes at Pennsic, and the discussions you can get into with people who wander in, on ALL subjects, are actually the best part. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 09:32:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23278 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:32:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IDI5E08630; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:18:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDI4N07291; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:18:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ID5lN03590 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m207.in-tch.com [216.166.191.207]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6ICpwr27693 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:51:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D36BE81.5B4DCD2A@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool and natural dyeing References: <1DFA48D5F02@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <3D365852.EB58C8C1@in-tch.com> <00d501c22e48$cacbc4b0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:11:29 -0600 Status: RO Without really knowing too much about it, I'd say it probably depends on the kind of dye you're using. Certainly, I've never heard of my textile-oriented friends having to "set-steam" theire newly-dyed silk yarns, but perhaps fabric is different? I'll try to remember to ask. I *did* notice that what very little I could find on their website about natural dyeing wasn't exactly -uhm- supportive of the idea, which I suppose makes sense to them, considering that most of their business seems to be concerned with non-natural dyes. Just that, in my case at least, I'm not interested in the silk screening, modern-dyeing, fabric-painting, or other very nice "artsy" things--I want to play with fibers and colors and fabrics of a more historical nature, and eventually, make a couple of historical costumes that are naturally dyed. And it's fun! Somehow, it's much more entertaining to "mine" your neighbors' yards for dandelion blossoms (makes a great yellow), or watch the color changes of something dyed with indigo (although it *really* smells nasty! ), or thwacking away at the "weeds" in the vacant lot next door, that happen to be tansy and knapweed...more of a process-oriented thing, I guess, than a goal-oriented thing.... --Sue, chatting away when she *should* be getting ready to go to work! Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > > That is gorgeous stuff, isn't it? I've had my eye on it for a while. The > only thing holding me back from dying silk is that they say you need to > steam set the dye--does anyone here do it differently, and how do you do it? > > Dianne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:55 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) > > > Yeah....sigh.... > > I'm actually thinking of ordering some silk twill from Dharma Trading, _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 09:54:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23413 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:54:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IDe8E09708; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDe6N13903; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDQIN09785 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:26:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m207.in-tch.com [216.166.191.207]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6IDCTr02971 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:12:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D36C351.E6BEE1EA@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics References: <00e801c22e24$d8469580$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:32:01 -0600 Status: RO *Laughing* The funny thing about that analogy, is that that's exactly what I thought of a gas pedal, when I learned to drive....Oh, hey, it's just like the sewing machine..... --Sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 09:59:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23464 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:59:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IDjDE10057; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDjCN15721; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:45:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDbIN13054 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:37:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VBT3-0003W5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:37:18 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Organization: PII Message-ID: <001001c22e5e$e836bc60$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020718084916.33641.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:27:46 -0700 Status: RO Just curious-(I am in the US). How far do you have to travel to collect as a group? The reason I ask is, we do the same thing in Arizona, not just for sewing costumes, but for soft sculpture, and spinning. Some of us travel as much as 90 miles each way in a single day! A good way to attract a few folks is to offer simple classes taught by one of you. For instance, have someone teach how to make split drawers, or each of you pick a simple period hat to teach. We also get together to go shopping at favorite fabric or bead stores. Sometimes you will have lots, sometimes only a few. The camaraderie is great. It may sound 'old fashioned' but I think women have lost a lot of their opportunities to "klatch" when they industrialized soap, sugar, quilting manufacture. They will come!! Wish I could come that far-I would!! Sg **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of N Kipar **Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:49 AM **To: H-Costume **Subject: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? ** ** **I don't know how many from the UK are here on this list, but **I have been thinking about this for a long time, not having a **clue how to make it happen. I am sitting alone here in the **South East of England, being the only one in the house who **sews, and more often than I like going mad with sewing away **all on my own. I was just wondering, has anybody ever thought **about a kind of sewing circle? To met perhaps every two **months or less, or whenever is feasible, perhaps somewhere in **the Midlands to sew for a weekend? **It's just one of these ideas that has been stuck with me for **a while now. Any ideas, or would anyone be interested at all? ** **Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 10:12:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23572 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:12:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IDw4E10927; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDw3N20354; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDl5N16427 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 32721 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2002 13:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.194.154]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Jul 2002 13:47:05 -0000 Message-ID: <005501c22e61$6b748920$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <00e801c22e24$d8469580$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3D36C351.E6BEE1EA@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:45:45 -0400 Status: RO > *Laughing* > The funny thing about that analogy, is that that's exactly what I > thought of a gas pedal, when I learned to drive....Oh, hey, it's just > like the sewing machine..... > --Sue And that is EXACTLY how I tease some of them into NOT "flooring" it - if they can't drive a sewing machine, how are they going to drive? It usually slows them down, if I can keep making them laugh about it. Not to mention sewing a straight line - Drunken Driving is an offense in the classroom! And then there was the cute, tiny student who had the Darth Vader Death Grip on anything - I had a very hard time trying to convince her to let the MACHINE feed it through! It was because I was teaching so many beginners and children how to sew in the SCA, especially at the original Pennsic Pages School, that I went back to college to become a teacher. How do the rest of you handle teaching people to sew, when they want to make all the wonderful clothing from so many eras? Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 10:16:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23590 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:16:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IE2EE11237; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IE2CN21768; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:02:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40001.mail.yahoo.com (web40001.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.19]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IDgIN14798 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:42:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718134212.6320.qmail@web40001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:42:12 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: Blackwork List , Historic Costuming , europe16thc , Tudor Fashions , H-costume list , HNW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:42:12 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Having agreed to make an exact reproduction of the above shirt for a friend I am in need of pictures of the above shirt. I need to find pictures of the embroidery in detail and on the shirt as a whole. Does anyone know of any resources that show this kind of detail or have any pictures that they would not mind emailing me? I have been onto the museum of costume in bath and they were worse than useless. The only picture they have is on their website at: http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseAction=SM.nav&UUID=013DFA14-32A6-4A33-B3CDA4E8E00C9D49 It's the one on the left. At a pinch I can travel to BAth to have a look myself but it is rather a long drive for a single shirt! Thanks Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 10:20:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23603 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:20:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IE6JE11489; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IE6IN23363; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:06:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDhBN15034 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:43:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA13883.; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:43:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:42:15 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6IDhBN15034 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:41:38 +0100 Status: RO Teddy wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> I find there's a *wider* range of "fashion" around now than there was in the 80's and 90's.... lots of "retro" styels are back in and there seems to be less pressure to conform to a particular one ... That's very true. In the original mini-skirt era almost all women who made any attempt to be fashionable felt they had to wear their skirts above the knee whether it suited them or not, then when flared trousers came in you felt uncomfortably conspicuous in straight ones. Nowadays you can choose whether to follow these "retro" styles or not. As to the complaint about modern fashions suiting 14 year olds - I'm middle aged but stuck with a 12 year old's figure, so I have difficulty in finding suitable styles in small enough sizes! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 10:20:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23607 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:20:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IE6QE11510; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:06:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IE6PN23436; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDhWN15124 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VBZ5-0002CR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:43:31 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) Organization: PII Message-ID: <001101c22e5f$c6c58740$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00d501c22e48$cacbc4b0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:34:00 -0700 Status: RO If you have a microwave, it is a great way to heat wet fabric. Just make sure it stays wet. You can burn fabric in a microwave-ask me how I know. I think I got this idea from the Dharma catalog. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 10:21:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23612 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:21:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IE72E11576; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IE71N23734; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDsZN19180 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-65.56.132.139.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([65.56.132.139] helo=earthlink.net) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VBjm-0007JV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:54:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3D36C753.C68D2DFA@earthlink.net> From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT School sports(WAS: Sewing) England vs US, References: <1F305D8208E@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:49:07 -0500 Status: RO I'm with you. Mine put me with the most aggressive girl in the class, so that I can now thank him for not breathing as well due to that hockey stick in the face. I'm sorry but if a child is bleeding from the nose and has broken glasses acting as if it wasn't a big deal should get them fired in my view. I'll never try sports again because of that. Onaree Teddy wrote: > > > Don't even get me *started* on that one, Sarah... and as for the > monsters who end ups as school PE/sports teachers.. My opinion > is that nayone who shows an interest in becoming one should be > forced to undergo stringent psychological testing and never be > allow *near* a child. They seem to be specially selceted for their > sadistic tendencies and the pleasure they take in holding those with > no interest in, or talent for, sports and physical exercise up to > riducule. > > But I digress... > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom. -- Latin proverb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 10:34:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23671 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:33:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IEJOE12448; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:19:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IEJMN28617; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f268.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.143]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IDuoN19967 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:56:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:56:44 -0700 Received: from 63.12.15.188 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:56:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.15.188] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2002 13:56:44.0825 (UTC) FILETIME=[F3975890:01C22E62] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:26:44 +0930 Status: RO
Hello
Here in Australia it's not unusual for girls in private schools to design and make their formal dress (prom dress), as a part of yr 11 or 12 sewing.
Rebecca

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 10:34:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23675 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:34:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IEJXE12474; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IEJWN28687; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IE3ZN22265 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VBsU-0001YR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:03:34 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <001201c22e62$94201b40$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020717195427.00cae5c0@mail.frys.com> Subject: [h-cost] Davenport book opinions? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:54:04 -0700 Status: RO I have heard several of you mention Davenport's costume book, but have been unable to find a copy locally to look at. I understand it is a two volume set. Can any of you tell me a little more about it-time periods, layout etc. And are there some cautions you are familiar with in using it as a source? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 10:39:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23713 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:39:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IEOSE12910; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IEORN00963; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:24:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g6IEFs127134; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:15:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: f-costume@net.indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20020718081554.F8758@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] costume sale Philadelphia Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:15:54 -0600 Status: RO Forwarded from another list ... > Pierre's Costumes will be having it's annual "Christmas in July" > sidewalk sale. The sale will be held July 25th 10:00am to 5:30pm > > Pierre's will be selling costumes, mascots, make-up, fabric, masks, > trim, buttons, costume building supplies, props, prosthetics, books, > flags, boas, wigs, canes, gloves, and a whole lot more. > > In addition to the items that are on the sidewalk sale (most of them > being sold under wholesale cost...many items for just a dollar), > Pierre's is offering a 10% discount on any purchase over $125. > > 211 N. 3rd st. > Philadelphia, PA 19106 > 215-925-7121 > > check http://www.costumers.com for directions > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 10:55:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23817 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:55:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IEf5E14261; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IEf4N08162; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IEVXN04095 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:31:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VCJZ-0004gM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:31:33 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <001301c22e66$7c70bbe0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020718134212.6320.qmail@web40001.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath-length question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:22:02 -0700 Status: RO Rachel, sorry I don't have any pictures but I do have a question which I would like anyone's idea about. Give the styles of the time for men, wouldn't this be a rather long shirt? Would they have only worn it when in robes? It seems like an awful lot to stuff into ones breeches! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 11:00:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23882 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:00:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IEk2E14667; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IEk1N10430; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IEXCN04779 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:33:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VCLA-0006jy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:33:12 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath Organization: PII Message-ID: <001401c22e66$b74e5060$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020718134212.6320.qmail@web40001.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:23:40 -0700 Status: RO Oh, one more thing-if you can't go there to look more closely at it, would the embroidery motifs in QEWU in crimson work? There are bugs, monsters, snails, birds etc. Not an exact replica I know.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 11:04:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23903 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:04:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IEo7E15105; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IEo6N12478; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:50:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IEgrN08965 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:42:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-65.58.238.76.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [65.58.238.76]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6IEgp4338066 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:42:52 -0400 Message-ID: <004f01c22e69$9d3f2480$4cee3a41@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <20020718083806.34280.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Burda Mag alive and well, was Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:44:24 -0400 Status: RO Unless something has changed since the 80s, Burda should have a section that tells you how to adjust it for larger sizes. (came in handy when I used them back then) Also, at least back then, they didn't put seam allowance in.(made it easier to adjust before cutting it out, they said);-) Moira Thanks again megan, may I also say to everyone that these patterns are indeed > superb for modern wear and highly recommendable (but they don't go to very big > sizes, I think German size 44 used to be the biggest one in the normal Burdas). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 11:30:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24026 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:30:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IFG3E17363; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IFG2N25014; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40012.mail.yahoo.com (web40012.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.30]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IF35N18566 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718150300.61374.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:03:00 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001401c22e66$b74e5060$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:03:00 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Unfortunately my client is most exacting and only this one with do. I have several patterns for blackwork shirts myself, but no, nothing else will do! Rachel --- Saragrace knauf wrote: > Oh, one more thing-if you can't go there to look more closely at it, > would the embroidery motifs in QEWU in crimson work? There are bugs, > monsters, snails, birds etc. Not an exact replica I know.... > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 11:31:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24032 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:31:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IFGAE17377; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IFGAN25085; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IF9QN21614 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:09:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK8VGKERE8000ST2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:09:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK8VGHC9QI00120H@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:09:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:05:22 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:04:57 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.130) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:04:53 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? In-reply-to: <200207181432.g6IEWhN04535@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1F7B5F2675A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:04:53 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Hi Saragrace, > Just curious-(I am in the US). How far do you have to travel to > collect as a group? The reason I ask is, we do the same thing in > Arizona, not just for sewing costumes, but for soft sculpture, and > spinning. Some of us travel as much as 90 miles each way in a > single day! A good way to attract a few folks is to offer simple > classes taught by one of you. For instance, have someone teach how > to make split drawers, or each of you pick a simple period hat to > teach. We also get together to go shopping at favorite fabric or > bead stores. Sometimes you will have lots, sometimes only a few. > The camaraderie is great. It may sound 'old fashioned' but I think > women have lost a lot of their opportunities to "klatch" when they > industrialized soap, sugar, quilting manufacture. They will come!! > Wish I could come that far-I would!! Over here, there are few that would even *consider* travelling that far for a one day event.... some not even for a weekend event.... let alone for a "sewing circle". Costume Guild UK has trouble getting significant numbers people together in one place (even though it's open to non costume guild members) to work on costumes/sewing etc for a day event even when there are displays or workshops offered to "sweeten the pot," and a nice big hall so big things can be layed out and there would be other people around to help/advise/share experience etc. When I first visited the US it amazed me how great a distance was referred to as "local". And, yes, this is a generalisation - some people over here *would* travel long distances and not be put off by them, and not everybody I encountered in the US thought little of travelling the distances I considered vast to get to events or simply to commute to and from work each day. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 11:35:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24057 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:35:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IFKFE17686; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IFKEN27216; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IF9SN21620 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.ba.290e4627 (4328) for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:08:48 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: Burda Mag alive and well, was Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ba.290e4627.2a683400_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:08:48 EDT Status: RO --part1_ba.290e4627.2a683400_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please forgive me I have not read the complete thread on the Burda Magazines so I might be repeating something already posted. I left Germany 4 years ago. Up until the time I left they did publish a special issue or maybe even a monthly one (I am not sure) for larger sizes. I remember when I was younger there were two leading fashion/pattern magazines in Germany one was Burda ands the other one was called Neue Mode (New Fashions). I have not seen the second one around anymore. The original Burda as I knew it changed tremendously. They broke it up into several magazines. One that comes to mind is Carina, which initially was a copy of the regular Burda fashions but strictly for teenagers. It did change over the years as well. I guess what I am trying to say is that they now publish a whole lot of more specialized monthly magazines with pattern inserts. One should contact them direct to get a list. I also know that they will send subscriptions or individual mags all over the world. Elisabeth --part1_ba.290e4627.2a683400_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please forgive me I have not read the complete thread on the Burda Magazines so I might be repeating something already posted.

I left Germany 4 years ago. Up until the time I left they did publish a special issue or maybe even a monthly one (I am not sure) for larger sizes.

I remember when I was younger there were two leading fashion/pattern magazines in Germany one was Burda ands the other one was called Neue Mode (New Fashions).  I have not seen the second one around anymore.  The original Burda as I knew it changed tremendously.  They broke it up into several magazines.  One that comes to mind  is Carina, which initially was a copy of the regular Burda fashions but strictly for teenagers.  It did change over the years as well.

I guess what I am trying to say is that they now publish a whole lot of more specialized monthly magazines with pattern inserts.  One should contact them direct to get a list.

I also know that they will send subscriptions or individual mags all over the world.

Elisabeth --part1_ba.290e4627.2a683400_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 11:38:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24069 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:38:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IFOME18020; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IFOLN29378; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:24:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40010.mail.yahoo.com (web40010.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.28]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IF1LN17766 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718150116.74219.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:01:16 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath-length question To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001301c22e66$7c70bbe0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:01:16 +0100 (BST) Status: RO It is a little difficult to ascertain the exact dimensions from that photograph. It does make on wonder whether this is a mans shirt or a womans. It is a better length for a womans shirt and there is not a great deal of difference in the patterns used. I guess if you were wearing a very large pair of venetians you might be able to get away with it though! Rachel --- Saragrace knauf wrote: > Rachel, sorry I don't have any pictures but I do have a question which I > would like anyone's idea about. Give the styles of the time for men, > wouldn't this be a rather long shirt? Would they have only worn it when > in robes? It seems like an awful lot to stuff into ones breeches! > ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 12:21:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24311 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:21:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IG72E22061; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IG70N22773; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IFvIN17394 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718155717.80778.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:57:17 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Costume Guild UK Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <1F7B5F2675A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:57:17 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > Over here, there are few that would even *consider* travelling that > far for a one day event.... some not even for a weekend event.... let > alone for a "sewing circle". I'm one of those who don't mind, I travel to work (thank goodness not London) but I find it normal travelling over an hour to see my seamstress, or 45 mins one way to work, etc. > Costume Guild UK has trouble getting significant numbers people > together in one place (even though it's open to non costume guild > members) to work on costumes/sewing etc for a day event even > when there are displays or workshops offered to "sweeten the pot," > and a nice big hall so big things can be layed out and there would > be other people around to help/advise/share experience etc. REALLY??? they are doing that?? teddy, the problem is that I never knew! It just isn't known, the info just does not get out. Look at GBCG, super web site, lots of info, but there's nothing interesting on the costume guild UK, I looked lately and couldn't find it. It just isn't known! I would come. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 12:21:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24316 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:21:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IG7LE22133; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IG7KN22953; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:07:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IG14N19511 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-65.58.194.159.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [65.58.194.159]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6IG13a283172 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:01:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c22e74$895183e0$9fc23a41@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <1F7B5F2675A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:02:35 -0400 Status: RO ::giggle:: And then, there are those of us travelling about 120 miles on Saturday just for a day of classes (St. Jerome's Faire for those Trimarians among us) to then turn around and drive that far to get home that night.;-D Moira > Over here, there are few that would even *consider* travelling that > far for a one day event.... some not even for a weekend event.... let > alone for a "sewing circle". > When I first visited the US it amazed me how great a distance was > referred to as "local". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 12:26:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24351 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:26:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IGBRE22566; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:11:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGBQN25197; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IG6rN22668 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:06:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718160653.82273.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:06:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT School sports(WAS: Sewing) England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D36C753.C68D2DFA@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:06:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO I know this is totally OT, and I apologise to Eliz for that, but I do have to agree! (finally a forum to shout out my sports trauma :-) First PE teacher thought it would great to let me do Dolphin style swimming across the short lengths and though I told him I can't see he waved it away. I smashed a piece off my front tooth and it's dead now so that I need a replacement and have a scar between lip and chin because I smashed my chin onto the bit that sticks out on the edge of the pool. I HATE swimming and will never swim anywhere other than in the bathtub. PE teacher no 2 thought nothing of it when I was in the goal in handball and the biggest nastiest girl did a hefty attack and my hand was torn backwards when I tried to catch it. 'oh, just stick it under water and don't be such a wuss' I still have a lump at the back of my head where I crashed into the sports hall benches when I came back inside and fainted coz all the blasted ligaments and tendons were torn in my fingers of the left hand and the joint capsules had hair-tears. I still can't move the fingers of the left as I can do the right. I HATE sports. Give me my beloved and wonderful Arts teacher back anytime!!! Nicole --- Ms Berard wrote: > I'm with you. Mine put me with the most aggressive girl in the class, so > that I can now thank him for not breathing as well due to that hockey > stick in the face. > > I'm sorry but if a child is bleeding from the nose and has broken > glasses acting as if it wasn't a big deal should get them fired in my > view. > > I'll never try sports again because of that. > > Onaree ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 12:38:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24423 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:38:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IGO6E23818; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGO4N02476; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IG9eN24291 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718160939.70043.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:09:39 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020718134212.6320.qmail@web40001.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:09:39 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Rachel, I uploaded two photos into the files section of the europe16th list, of a male shirt from Bath, one is an embroidery closeup. Let me know if that's the one you mean. (my Netscape crashed trying to get to the Bath web site) Nicole --- Rachel wrote: > Having agreed to make an exact reproduction of the above shirt for a friend I > am in need of > pictures of the above shirt. I need to find pictures of the embroidery in > detail and on the shirt > as a whole. Does anyone know of any resources that show this kind of detail > or have any pictures > that they would not mind emailing me? > > I have been onto the museum of costume in bath and they were worse than > useless. The only picture > they have is on their website at: > > http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseAction=SM.nav&UUID=013DFA14-32A6-4A33-B3CDA4E8E00C9D49 > > It's the one on the left. > > At a pinch I can travel to BAth to have a look myself but it is rather a long > drive for a single > shirt! > > Thanks > > Rachel > > ===== > Rachel > > Tudor Bibliography > http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 12:47:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24457 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:47:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IGX2E24716; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGX1N07497; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m24.jersey.juno.com (m24.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGNNN02063 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"6+EQmPyi7QIwbF+RNYxk3/S9njWcGXzVHpZp/OrcKw9OCCEw10HWdA=="> Received: (from ysabiau@juno.com) by m24.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G7ZXHGKG; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:22:30 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath Message-ID: <20020718.122351.-81965533.0.ysabiau@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-6,14-15 From: Christine Wright Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:23:50 -0400 Status: RO On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:42:12 +0100 (BST) =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= writes: > Having agreed to make an exact reproduction of the above shirt for a > friend I am in need of > pictures of the above shirt. I need to find pictures of the I've seen something similar to it in one of my blackwork embroidery books - I'll see if I can track it down. I would say, however, that it is much more likely to either be a woman's partlet/shift or a man's nightshirt. I've seen a man's shirt circa 1605 in an exhibit in Boston, and this blackwork shirt looks to be much longer (thanks to the folks at Bath for sticking it next to a woman's shift for length reference!). Considering how fitted the doublets and breeches were, I don't think there'd be enough room to tuck all that in! Ysabiau ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 12:52:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24481 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:52:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IGbCE25103; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGb8N09898; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:37:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f165.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGSNN04821 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:28:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:28:17 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:28:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2002 16:28:17.0664 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F587800:01C22E78] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:28:17 +0000 Status: RO > > > But the very best thing is still if you can learn to sew from your mom >:-) > > I should have added that my Mom can't sew To me, this is almost a weird thought. I grew up in a family where my mom did sewing, decorating, gardening, cooking etc. and my dad renovated the whole house himself. Both my parents are very good at crafts, building or all those other things. Weird thing is, they both are computer scientists. Go figure :-) Anyway, that means I was the kid with tons of papers, cardboard, glue an scissors, origami books, embroidery thread to make bracelets, crafts books, scraps of fabric... It just has become a natural thing to be able to pick up skills easily, ex. embroidery. I never did much of it, but someone showed me stem stitch a few years ago. So when I needed embroidery on a gown this summer, I picked up needle and thread and went at it. It's not perfect, but it's something that's very easy for me. Those friendship bracelets that kids make, I could never find a book advanced enough to satisfy me. What's harder, is convincing me to play pool, or volleyball, or... :-) Phys Ed. was a nightmare in high school :-) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:10:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24560 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:10:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IGtgE26914; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGtdN20483; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGgMN12875 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.8f.1f27f148 (16111) for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d05.webmail.aol.com [205.188.138.69]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.16) with ESMTP id MAILINID123-0718124208; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:42:08 -0400 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <31024A13.1DD20601.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: cope on display at V & A Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:43:30 -0400 Status: RO Hi Teddy, Give a big Hi! to Drea for me too. I just took her 16th century woman's class through Penny's Costume Classroom and it was fantastic. Wish I could be there with you. :) Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:10:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24564 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:10:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IGtpE26950; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:55:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGtoN20618; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGgWN12957 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.2f.29f7bac8 (16099) for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d04.webmail.aol.com [205.188.138.68]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.16) with ESMTP id MAILINID113-0718124210; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:42:10 -0400 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <094E891B.31C07FA0.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: cope on display at V & A Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:42:15 -0400 Status: RO Hi Teddy, Give a big Hi! to Drea for me too. I just took her 16th century woman's class through Penny's Costume Classroom and it was fantastic. Wish I could be there with you. :) Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:14:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24576 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:14:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IH03E27515; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IH02N23317; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGkMN15167 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r8p57.directcon.net [209.79.209.106]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6IGkBDv007311; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:46:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020718095142.00c70190@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? In-Reply-To: <001001c22e5e$e836bc60$6501a8c0@Home> References: <20020718084916.33641.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:51:42 -0700 Status: RO At 06:27 AM 07/18/2002 -0700, Saragrace knauf wrote: >Just curious-(I am in the US). How far do you have to travel to collect >as a group? I'm in a rural part of California, and I have to drive 50 miles to go the the Scaramento Costumer's guilds meetings. There are oher local people who do Renn faires (two of whom turn out to live across the street from me!) we have a local not very active SCA shire, and there are a number of local groups who do really lame 19th century reenactment, as well as a few people who do it a bit better, but as far as I can tell, I'm the only serious costumer in town. (If anyone reading this is in the Placerville area and feels otherwise, please let me know!) Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:14:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24580 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:14:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IGxtE27458; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:59:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGxsN23203; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:59:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGiHN13975 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g6IGiBK27612 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D36EFC6.539833DE@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 References: <006101c22e11$d8dd51e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:41:43 -0400 Status: RO I, on the other hand, was told NOT to take Home Ec, art, typing, etc. because I was going to college. The typing was for those going to secretarial school...cost me bucks in college to have to hire someone to type those papers I had put off too long to hunt & peck myself -- stupidest idea my small school ever had! Kate > Sarah, > > I too was told by my high school counselor that people who took Home Ec. > that many years shouldn't go to college. I don't remember why I swayed > toward going to college, but I will always remember that. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:18:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24592 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:18:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IH48E27906; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IH47N25683; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IGuWN21046 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:56:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r8p57.directcon.net [209.79.209.106]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6IGtqDv009235; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:55:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020718100124.00c66cc0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath-length question In-Reply-To: <20020718150116.74219.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com> References: <001301c22e66$7c70bbe0$6501a8c0@Home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:01:24 -0700 Status: RO At 04:01 PM 07/18/2002 +0100, Rachel wrote: >It is a little difficult to ascertain the exact dimensions from that photograph. It does make on >wonder whether this is a mans shirt or a womans. It is a better length for a womans shirt and >there is not a great deal of difference in the patterns used. > >I guess if you were wearing a very large pair of venetians you might be able to get away with it >though! > No, at least some men's shirts really were that long. Knee length or a bit shorter. They were slit almost to the waist on the sides. When worn, the front part was pulled through the legs to the back, then the back to the front, creating an effect like a baby's "onesie" garment. This served the same purpose as underpants, to keep the slops or venetains from being soiled and to protect from chafing. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:31:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24802 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:31:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IHH7E29199; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHH2N03384; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IH4mN26066 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r8p57.directcon.net [209.79.209.106]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6IH4PDv010950; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:04:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020718100957.00c70c20@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath-length question In-Reply-To: <001301c22e66$7c70bbe0$6501a8c0@Home> References: <20020718134212.6320.qmail@web40001.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:09:57 -0700 Status: RO Re the difference between men's shirts and women's smocks: In her article on the subject, Janet Arnold points out that it can be difficult to tell, because they are both about the same length and very similar in shape. The way she differentiated them was that mens's shirts are slit at the sides, to enable the between the legs arrangement I described earlier, and women's smocks have side gores to make room for the hips. This difference can be seen in the picture of the two smocks, if you look carefully. In the article, Arnold diagrams both these garments. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:40:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24840 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:40:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IHPeE00145; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:25:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHPdN08495; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:25:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IH5lN26579 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:05:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip221.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.221]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6IH5fq15766 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:05:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cope on display in V&A Message-ID: <3D369542.28442.3A010D9@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200207171719.g6HHJiN19532@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: <1F289CA7524@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:15:30 -0700 Status: RO > > > You must have a picture of it then... Of cousre, you'll then find > > > it was actually a dark blue brocade altercloth and that I've just > > > misremebered the details.... Teddy > > > > Oh, Teddy darling, you could do us one even better. *You*, who > > live so close to the actual source, could go to the V&A and look at > > it and tell us. That way we *know* that we aren't mixing up copes. > > ;) > > OK, Kat, you talked me into it. > > When I take Drea fabric shopping on Saturday, I'll try and find time > for to call in and take a look at the cope. > Teddy Yeah! Say hi! to her for me (and the rest of us, I'm sure.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:40:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24875 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:40:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IHPtE00176; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHPrN08662; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:25:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IH5rN26638 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:05:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip221.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.221]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6IH5mq15779 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:05:48 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: e: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, Message-ID: <3D369543.22597.3A01174@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200207171719.g6HHJiN19532@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: <1F27DCF7AFE@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:15:31 -0700 Status: RO > > (No, I won't sing the Mary Poppins "Spoonful of sugar" nursery > > cleaning song. No, I won't or it will be with me all day!) > > Awww... but it's one of my favourites - I even know the whistling part > that the robin does. > Teddy But Teddy, you aren't here to hear it. (And people around me get really tired of it.) Between Mary Poppins and Oliver!, I have a tendency to burst into song when I hear certain phrases. I don't do it unless I'm in a pretty good frame of mind. In spite of unemployment I've been singing to myself a lot. (Woe to those around me.) Kat kat@grendal.rain.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:40:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24879 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IHQ5E00230; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHQ4N08826; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10008.mail.yahoo.com (web10008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IH75N27477 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718170704.88309.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.50.56.226] by web10008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:07:04 PDT From: Kay Shelton To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] current fashions: Sewing, England vs US Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Actually I find the wearing of the waistband far below the waist to be the most difficult part of current fashions. Both of my girls (24 and 19) won't wear anything at their natural waistline. It reminds me of the crepe paper costume book I have from the 1920s where the costumes were all made with the lowered waist look of that period rather than the historical period of the costumes. Interesting. Weird looking now, but I bet it looked fine to their eyes. Message: 2 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:50:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, To: h-costume@indra.com Organization: Middlesex University Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > Let's see, is there anyone on this list, in the UK, who actually > *likes* current fashion?? I find there's a *wider* range of "fashion" around now than there was in the 80's and 90's.... lots of "retro" styels are back in and there seems to be less pressure to conform to a particular one style/fashion scene than there was when I was a teenager (and had no idea what wa "in" and what was "out", besides being too shy to attempt wearing anything even vaguely fashionable). Personally, I love flares ("Not the distress-signal, the trousers, though possibly they are worn as a cry for help"... to quote Victoria Wood...) and baggy trousers and would happily buy and wear them if they were; (a) cheaper and (b) not made in such awful synthetic fabrics. One of the library assistants here is a trendy young thing and just yesterday he was wearing some very nice "Shaggy from Scooby-doo" style trousers that I was admiring until I got close enough to see what they were made of. Teddy --__--__-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:41:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24889 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:41:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IHR2E00340; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHR1N09376; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHGDN02892 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VEss-0006R0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:16:13 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath-length question Organization: PII Message-ID: <001401c22e7d$6c62d000$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020718100124.00c66cc0@pop.directcon.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:06:13 -0700 Status: RO I wondered about that myself. Could you share your source? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:42:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24897 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:42:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IHR7E00357; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:27:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHR5N09447; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHHGN03524 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ANGELA (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6IHHFa388794 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:17:15 -0400 Message-ID: <03a101c22e7f$360ed060$9865fea9@ANGELA> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <010e01c22e29$97bedcc0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] YIPPEEE!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:19:01 -0700 Status: RO They are really gorgeous. Thanks for putting all that effort into something so fascinating! angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 12:06 AM Subject: [h-cost] YIPPEEE!!!!! > FINALLY... after 2-3 years searching for photos, intense battles at eBay, > exchanging my kids to gypsies for costly photos, and one year of layout, > design, and scanning images... yes, a lot went into this site... the > website, "A Brush with History: Vintage Hairstyles" is up on The Gallery. > http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Women/menu.htm > > The time frame for the photos is from the late 1860s-1915. I have one photo > of a 1920s girl. The site consists of 51 photos of ladies' and girls' > hairstyles with long hair. Here is a breakdown of the styles and number of > photos: > > Girls: 19 > Ladies' with Braids: 6 > Ladies with Ringlets: 11 > Ladies with Long Flowing Hair: 15 > > Each photo has a circa fashion date, hairstyle description, costume > description, all information recorded about the photo for genealogical > purposes, and in some cases the sitter's name. > > Some big thank you-s go to some loaner photos from Marna Jean Davis and > Linda Thompson, both from h-costume. Jennie Chancey and Marna Jean assisted > me with dating the fashions and the costume descriptions. It was a joy to > work with all of them on this project! > > I hope you all enjoy the fruits of our labor. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:49:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24941 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:49:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IHZDE01196; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:35:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHZCN14171; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHM9N06351 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:22:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip221.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.221]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6IHM5o01601 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:22:05 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 Message-ID: <3D369920.9344.3AF2993@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3D36EFC6.539833DE@mccc.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:32:00 -0700 Status: RO > I, on the other hand, was told NOT to take Home Ec, art, typing, etc. > because I was going to college. The typing was for those going to > secretarial school...cost me bucks in college to have to hire someone > to type those papers I had put off too long to hunt & peck myself -- > stupidest idea my small school ever had! > Kate Your guidance counsellor should have been shot! I took typing because I *knew* I'd need it in college. It was my only B in high school! (I could have been... naw, I won't go there.) Although I hated every minute of the class and always left with a major headache, I thank God that I took it even if it was just one semester. Although I could never match my mom (who was an amazing typist, which was part of her job, and could type faster and more accurately on a manual and selectric typewriters than even the best now on word processors), I can go very fast (just not accurately. I end up correcting a lot as I type. My last art class was in junior high because I didn't have time for it after that (although I did have study hall a couple of times, but no art or clothing classes were offered that I could get into.) I would have loved to have taken a tailoring class but you had to have pre- requisites that you couldn't challenge out of, and I didn't have time to take *that* many non-math/science/foreign language/creative writing/college prep classes. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 13:54:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24965 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:54:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IHe3E02089; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHe1N18083; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20807.mail.yahoo.com (web20807.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.196]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IHRTN09684 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020718172729.7536.qmail@web20807.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [131.118.36.142] by web20807.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:27:29 PDT From: Margaret Farrow To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:27:29 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Try the following two links, as I think they may be able to answer some of your questions. http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/blackworkshirt.html http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/shirt.html JAnet Arnold aslo has an artcile which I believe discusses this shirt and the first link states that QEWU has pistures of some of the motifs, so that may be another place to look (I may be mistaken, though). I hope this helps some. Margaret (going back into lurking now...) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 14:11:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25083 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:11:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IHv4E04038; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IHv2N27888; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com [66.96.128.118]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6IHqeN25307 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11158 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2002 17:40:26 -0000 Received: from co-trinidad1a-204.lbrlks.adelphia.net (HELO costumemag.com) (68.64.140.204) by -H with SMTP; 18 Jul 2002 17:40:26 -0000 Message-ID: <3D37005A.C0C08A6B@costumemag.com> From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20020718155717.80778.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Guild UK Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:52:29 -0600 Status: RO And I'll bet that those among us who are making travel plans to visit the UK would attend when we're there! MD/Marged Colorado USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 14:43:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25228 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:43:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IIPtE06954; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIPrN13890; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:25:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIFnN08383 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.75] (as3-4-89.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.75]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6IIFl816531 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00e801c22e24$d8469580$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> References: <00e801c22e24$d8469580$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6IIFnN08383 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:56:43 -0700 Status: RO At 2:32 AM -0400 7/18/02, Penny Ladnier wrote: >Regina... this sure was forward for 1960. Where did you live? > >I just recalled why my 7th grade home ec teacher said WHY boys >weren't allowed to take home ec. Someone asked in our class.  She >pointed to the sewing machine pedal on the floor. "See that, boys >think that pedal is to a race car. So we don't allow them in the >home ec lab!" > >I think of her saying that everytime I teach my sons how to drive. > Which is just about the opposite reasoning from what my Mom used when we were kids. She explained that learning to manage a sewing machine pedal properly was _excellent_ practice for the day when we'd get our learner's permits, and the more we sewed, the easier it would be to learn the footwork of driving. (Especially relevant since my family only owned manual transmission cars.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 14:43:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25229 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:43:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IIPLE06893; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIPJN13589; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:25:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIFlN08365 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.75] (as3-4-89.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.75]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6IIFj816489 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <009c01c22915$b6f114a0$0101a8c0@bella> References: <7E7F24B0.772028DA.0F933E1F@aol.com> <3D2D89F4.BEFC5B6D@in-tch.com> <009c01c22915$b6f114a0$0101a8c0@bella> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing an Anglo-Saxon Seam (was Fabric Prices) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:52:44 -0700 Status: RO At 9:01 PM +0100 7/11/02, Linda Walton wrote: >I'm about to start making an undertunic as worn by an early Anglo-Saxon >lady, but I've been wondering how the fabric would have been sewn together >and hemmed. Can anyone tell me, please ? My fabric is white 100% linen: >should I use linen thread ? If so, (and as I make Bucks lace), I have >several types of linen thread available: how should I choose ? And would >the garment have been plain, or were there any decorative finishes ? While the number of early linen garments available to use as models is quite small, when I was researching sewing techniques on surviving garments, one of the clear patterns I noticed was that seams for linen focus strongly around the avoidance of leaving raw edges showing (for fairly obvious reasons). There were a number of ways of doing this, including finishing the edge (e.g. with a rolled or double-folded hem) and then seaming the finished edges together, or covering the seam with the moral equivalent of seam tape (a strip of fabric with the edges folded over, placed over the flattened seam than the sewn down at both edges). More details and references can be found in my article "Archaeological Sewing" on Cynthia Virtue's web site. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 14:54:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25320 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:54:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IIdEE08304; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:39:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIdCN21579; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:39:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIS5N15142 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VG0P-0000cM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:28:01 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000001c22e87$645bddc0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020718100957.00c70c20@pop.directcon.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Arnold articles:Was: Blackwork. . . . . Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:17:34 -0700 Status: RO I've heard some of you refer to these articles which Arnold wrote off and on-where did you obtain your copies? I have all of her books, I think, did she later publish/incorporate the articles in those? I see on one website one of you referred me to that one of them was in: Arnold, Janet (1977). "Elizabethan and Jacobean smocks and shirts". Waffen-und Kostumkunde; Zeitschrift der Gessellschadt fur Historiche Waffen -und Kostumkunde (Vol 19, Issue 2). I assume the article is in German here-that shouldn't be a problem for me as I can speak it fairly well, but what about others? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 15:02:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25386 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:02:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IIm2E09121; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIm1N26383; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout5-int.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIZgN19532 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-63.208.201.226.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [63.208.201.226]) by pimout5-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6IIZe2223604 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:35:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000601c22e8a$2326b8e0$e2c9d03f@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <00e801c22e24$d8469580$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] [h-cost] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:37:13 -0400 Status: RO Hi! I was wondering if anyone could give me tips on Pioneer Days outfits for a 12 yr old girl and a 9 yr old boy. A friend of mine found out she needs these outfits for an activity this Saturday.;-) Thanks in advance, Moira _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 15:06:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25398 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:06:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IIqIE09479; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:52:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIqHN28686; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IIiVN24502 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id MAA29987 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:04:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207181904.MAA29987@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO "Dianne and Greg Stucki" wrote: > > That is gorgeous stuff, isn't it? I've had my eye on it for a while. The > only thing holding me back from dying silk is that they say you need to > steam set the dye--does anyone here do it differently, and how do you do it? You only need to steamset silks if you're _painting_ them with the dyes. If you vat dye silk with an acid dye, the heat of the dyebath will do the setting for you. It's just that when you paint silks, you don't exactly want to get them _wet_ again, so you roll them in non-printed newsprint and bundle it into the steamer to activate the dye. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 15:45:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25553 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:45:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IJUEE17888; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJU1N11037; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJJLN04908 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:19:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9796B10FC79 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01a101c22e8f$bf549e30$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <200207171719.g6HHJiN19532@net.indra.com> <3D369543.22597.3A01174@localhost> Subject: Re: e: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:17:21 -0400 Status: RO Since I love both of those movies, I wouldn't mind at all if you burst into song! I especially love "I'd Do Anything" from Oliver. When we saw the Monkees last summer, Davy was doing (at some shows) a medley from Oliver! He didn't do it that night. Phooey. To make this costume related, I'm going to a garb/hurryandgetreadyforPennsic workshop tonight! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:15 PM Subject: Re: e: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, > > > (No, I won't sing the Mary Poppins "Spoonful of sugar" nursery > > > cleaning song. No, I won't or it will be with me all day!) > > > > Awww... but it's one of my favourites - I even know the whistling part > > that the robin does. > > Teddy > > But Teddy, you aren't here to hear it. (And people around me get > really tired of it.) > > Between Mary Poppins and Oliver!, I have a tendency to burst into > song when I hear certain phrases. I don't do it unless I'm in a pretty > good frame of mind. In spite of unemployment I've been singing to > myself a lot. (Woe to those around me.) > > > Kat > kat@grendal.rain.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 15:46:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25570 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:46:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IJVcE18217; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJVaN11952; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJN2N06971 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:17:21 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A441268A0134; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:17:21 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:17:20 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] [h-cost] Message-ID: <000001c22e90$b0b1dd10$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <000601c22e8a$2326b8e0$e2c9d03f@momdad> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:24:08 -0500 Status: RO The boy can wear knickers or long pants, NOT jeans, a white shirt and suspenders. He should have a hat or cap. A 12-year old girl would not have an ankle length dress, but mid-calf. Striped stockings are good (tights are a good substitute). She should wear a hat or bonnet. Hair should not be completely loose, but braided or at least the front hair pulled back into a barrette or bun. Neither one should have any visible zippers, no sandals, no tennis shoes. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of HEATHER A CUTLER Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:37 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] [h-cost] Hi! I was wondering if anyone could give me tips on Pioneer Days outfits for a 12 yr old girl and a 9 yr old boy. A friend of mine found out she needs these outfits for an activity this Saturday.;-) Thanks in advance, Moira _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 15:51:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25599 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:51:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IJaFE19052; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:36:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJZkN13644; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:35:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJQPN09099 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:26:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:20:45 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A50D227E0128; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:20:45 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:20:44 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] current fashions: Sewing, England vs US Message-ID: <000101c22e91$2a42c630$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20020718170704.88309.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:27:32 -0500 Status: RO Yes, I love that 1920's version of fancy dress. I have a McCall's pattern for bra and panties from the 1920's, and even thought the midriff is exposed, the women illustrated are STILL straight from boobs to butt. No indentation at the waistline.Very odd! Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kay Shelton Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 12:07 PM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] current fashions: Sewing, England vs US Actually I find the wearing of the waistband far below the waist to be the most difficult part of current fashions. Both of my girls (24 and 19) won't wear anything at their natural waistline. It reminds me of the crepe paper costume book I have from the 1920s where the costumes were all made with the lowered waist look of that period rather than the historical period of the costumes. Interesting. Weird looking now, but I bet it looked fine to their eyes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:04:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25699 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:04:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IJn6E21903; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJn5N21458; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJadN14197 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-101-177.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.101.177]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIF97667; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:37:02 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <007401c22e93$9333a220$b1654ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] URGENT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:44:29 +0100 Status: RO Can the moderator either set me to nomail or tell me at once how to I've tried but it won't take it Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:07:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25714 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:07:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IJrIE22310; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJrHN23865; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:53:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJdSN15874 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-63.208.31.3.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [63.208.31.3]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6IJdRF391858 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:39:27 -0400 Message-ID: <003701c22e93$0c4f77c0$031fd03f@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <000001c22e90$b0b1dd10$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cost] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:41:00 -0400 Status: RO Kim, Thanks! This'll give me a good start. Would "Little House" outfits work, or not? Moira > The boy can wear knickers or long pants, NOT jeans, a white shirt and > suspenders. He should have a hat or cap. > A 12-year old girl would not have an ankle length dress, but mid-calf. > Striped stockings are good (tights are a good substitute). She should > wear a hat or bonnet. Hair should not be completely loose, but braided > or at least the front hair pulled back into a barrette or bun. > > Neither one should have any visible zippers, no sandals, no tennis > shoes. > > Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:11:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25729 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:11:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IJvOE22670; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJvNN26221; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJh7N17934 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:43:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AFCE210FE8D for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <020801c22e93$0fdbd2d0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <200207181904.MAA29987@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:41:02 -0400 Status: RO Thank you! Somehow I knew it couldn't be THAT difficult!! Woohoo, now where did I put that Dharma catalog.. Dianne dreaming of a red silk twill gown... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Thompson-Herbert" To: Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) > > "Dianne and Greg Stucki" wrote: > > > > That is gorgeous stuff, isn't it? I've had my eye on it for a while. The > > only thing holding me back from dying silk is that they say you need to > > steam set the dye--does anyone here do it differently, and how do you do it? > > You only need to steamset silks if you're _painting_ them with the dyes. > If you vat dye silk with an acid dye, the heat of the dyebath will do the > setting for you. It's just that when you paint silks, you don't exactly > want to get them _wet_ again, so you roll them in non-printed newsprint > and bundle it into the steamer to activate the dye. > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 > Head Muso, White Rats Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:16:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25758 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:16:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IK25E23159; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IK23N28952; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJvMN26210 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:51:35 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AC4713EC0130; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:51:35 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:51:34 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] [h-cost] Message-ID: <000001c22e95$791a0b70$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <003701c22e93$0c4f77c0$031fd03f@momdad> Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:58:22 -0500 Status: RO "Little House" would only offend the purists, and they will likely be offended by plenty other costumes than yours, so go ahead, use them. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of HEATHER A CUTLER Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 2:41 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cost] Kim, Thanks! This'll give me a good start. Would "Little House" outfits work, or not? Moira > The boy can wear knickers or long pants, NOT jeans, a white shirt and > suspenders. He should have a hat or cap. > A 12-year old girl would not have an ankle length dress, but mid-calf. > Striped stockings are good (tights are a good substitute). She should > wear a hat or bonnet. Hair should not be completely loose, but braided > or at least the front hair pulled back into a barrette or bun. > > Neither one should have any visible zippers, no sandals, no tennis > shoes. > > Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:25:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25821 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:25:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IKB7E24024; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IKB5N04237; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJwfN26819 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6IJwdJU024961 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:58:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge In-Reply-To: <200207180148.SAA20588@gw.retro.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > It's sold as "Absente." It's mostly flavored with anise, which in that > dosage has a synergistic effect with the alcohol. So it isn't _just_ the > wormwood in absinthe that's psychoactive. Apparently, Pernod is also a wormwood-free version that's available in the U.S. Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:25:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25826 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:25:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IKBEE24050; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IKBDN04328; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:11:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IJxiN27488 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VHR8-0001sC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:59:42 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] URGENT Organization: PII Message-ID: <000d01c22e94$53fca920$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <007401c22e93$9333a220$b1654ed5@pavilion> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:50:10 -0700 Status: RO She is on vacation. Can you redirect your mail from the list automatically to the delete file? **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Wilson **Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 12:44 PM **To: LIST H costume **Subject: [h-cost] URGENT ** ** **Can the moderator either set me to nomail or tell me at once **how to I've tried but it won't take it ** **Mel ** **This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have **received it in error, please delete it from your system, do **not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me **immediately. The contents of this message may contain **personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless **specifically stated. ** ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:37:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25904 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:37:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IKNME25184; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:23:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IKNLN11055; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:23:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IK4VN00588 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pauldes ([64.180.67.198]) by priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020718200425.TXC589.priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net@pauldes> for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:04:25 -0600 Message-ID: <002101c22e96$572f87a0$cb4bb440@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Desamona Villani" To: References: <20020718150300.61374.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:04:34 -0700 Status: RO the pattern for it is up on the web. unfortunetly, I don't know if they had the embroidery designs up as well. the site is: http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/shirt.html you might find it useful. if you browse the site a bit, it has the blackwork designs, but not in proportion, I think. Anyways, good luck. and if you do go and get detailed shots, I would be REALLY interested in looking at them, as this shirt has been on my list to recreate as well! Brandy > Unfortunately my client is most exacting and only this one with do. I have several patterns for > blackwork shirts myself, but no, nothing else will do! > > Rachel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:38:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25908 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:38:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IKNWE25213; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IKNVN11167; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:23:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IK5uN01293 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6IK5sJU026049 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:05:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge In-Reply-To: <00c901c22dfd$9a6a9fd0$ead8adcb@michaela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:05:54 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, michaela wrote: > Actually there is a book about consumption and the sociology of it. How it > was seen as a romantic disease. I was reading it in regards to some study on > "Trilby" and was shocked to discover I had been in contact with someone with > TB. I wouldn't be surprised at all... after hearing stories about the increasing rates of TB among HIV-positive homeless people in big cities, I tend to worry if I'm on a subway car with someone coughing. But then, I am a worry wart, and it doesn't stop me from riding the subway. My husband's older sister had TB as a teenager (1960s, I guess) and spent some time in a sanitarium undergoing treatment. As I understand it, TB gave its victims a sort of pale complexion with rosy cheeks, so they sort of wasted away while looking 'pale and interesting'... I've also heard TB blamed for one particular vampire hysteria in 18th century (or early 19th?) New England. The family all died one by one, and modern archaeologists disinterred a body or two and found that the thigh bones had been crossed over the deceased's chest, perhaps as an attempt to keep them 'in the grave', so to speak. Can't remember when I read this, but it was in the Washington Post a while back. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:38:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25912 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:38:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IKNaE25229; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:23:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IKNZN11215; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:23:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IK8fN02852 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6IK9t738158 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:09:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207182009.g6IK9t738158@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) In-Reply-To: <00d501c22e48$cacbc4b0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> "from Dianne and Greg Stucki at Jul 18, 2002 06:49:24 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I was just thinking about this too, as I want some silk twill for a bustle dress. I've never ordered fabric from Dharma though, I didn't know the quality. .heather. > That is gorgeous stuff, isn't it? I've had my eye on it for a while. The > only thing holding me back from dying silk is that they say you need to > steam set the dye--does anyone here do it differently, and how do you do it? > > Dianne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:55 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) > > > > Yeah....sigh.... > > I'm actually thinking of ordering some silk twill from Dharma Trading, > > and doing a whole gown in either tansy or knapweed (they're both growing > > rampant around here.....) > > --Sue, too many centuries, too many colors, not enough time > > > > Teddy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Must be local-water thing, or something. The tansy-dyed wools done by > > > > my friends were very lovely shades of an almost olive-green. The > > > > silks were similar, but lighter. --sue > > > > > > That sounds much nicer. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:56:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25988 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:56:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IKfTE26807; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IKfSN21612; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.siscom.net (1012@shell.siscom.net [209.251.2.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IH47N25685 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (drea@localhost) by shell.siscom.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA03816; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:03:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from drea@nospam) From: Drea Leed To: europe16thc cc: Blackwork List , Historic Costuming , Tudor Fashions , H-costume list , HNW In-Reply-To: <20020718134212.6320.qmail@web40001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Re: [europe16thc] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO As chance would have it, I'm currently in Bath looking at the costumes. :) But they don't allow photos, and don't have any better pictures available than the one you listed. I can try and describe details, if you want. Thanks, Drea On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Rachel wrote: > Having agreed to make an exact reproduction of the above shirt for a friend I am in need of > pictures of the above shirt. I need to find pictures of the embroidery in detail and on the shirt > as a whole. Does anyone know of any resources that show this kind of detail or have any pictures > that they would not mind emailing me? > > I have been onto the museum of costume in bath and they were worse than useless. The only picture > they have is on their website at: > > http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseAction=SM.nav&UUID=013DFA14-32A6-4A33-B3CDA4E8E00C9D49 > > It's the one on the left. > > At a pinch I can travel to BAth to have a look myself but it is rather a long drive for a single > shirt! > > Thanks > > Rachel > > ===== > Rachel > > Tudor Bibliography > http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Will You Find True Love? > Will You Meet the One? > Free Love Reading by phone! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/ps3dMC/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/sK9olB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 16:57:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25999 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:57:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IKf4E26762; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IKf2N21336; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g6IKWTv16374 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:32:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] URGENT Message-ID: <20020718143228.E9603@net.indra.com> References: <007401c22e93$9333a220$b1654ed5@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <007401c22e93$9333a220$b1654ed5@pavilion> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:32:29 -0600 Status: RO Actually, I'm not on vacation until *next* Friday, 7/26. :) But thanks for reading the note! ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 17:08:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26055 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:08:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IKsNE28224; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IKsMN29143; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IKiUN23520 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03759 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:09:08 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport book opinions? In-Reply-To: <001201c22e62$94201b40$6501a8c0@Home> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:09:08 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, Saragrace knauf wrote: > I have heard several of you mention Davenport's costume book, but have > been unable to find a copy locally to look at. I understand it is a > two volume set. Can any of you tell me a little more about it-time > periods, layout etc. And are there some cautions you are familiar with > in using it as a source? The books span essentially all of history, mostly divided by century and then by locale. All the images are of primary artifacts, paintings, artworks, etc. -- no redrawings. This, and the sheer quantity of images, are its best features. The drawbacks are that the images are all b/w and rather small. Captions are minimal, but sources are clearly delineated. I find Davenport very useful for giving me a general overview of the sorts of sources available for a particular time and place, and the general silhouette and styles to look for. Then I go to more specialized art sources to get better looks at the same images or similar ones. It's also good if you want a ballpark sense of what's going on in a certain period/place, or if you're trying to locate a look that you know is "historical" but you're not sure from where or when. And because the book is so widespread, it's a good frame of reference -- I can email to another costumer that I'm referring to Davenport figure whatever, and they'll be able to see what I'm talking about. I got my set used for about $40 in the 1980s at a little used book store in Iowa. It's pretty scarce now, but it should be readily available in many libraries. I believe there's also a one-volume reprint available. --Robi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 17:38:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26200 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:38:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ILOGE01541; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:24:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ILOFN16346; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:24:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ILC5N09527 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.16] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZG00963QXUNU@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:13:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred In-reply-to: X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Subject: [h-cost] Awesome Fabric offer Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:12:00 -0400 Status: RO Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:57:58 -0400 From: "Eric A. Rhude" General announcement Greenberg & Hammer, one of New York's oldest notions and dressmaker shops, serving the theatre community for more than 60 years, both nationally and internationally, is showcasing the Coronation and Last Court gowns from the first reign of Isabella & Andreas, as well as one male outfit from the courtiers, in their window at 24 West 57th Street, in New York City, the heart of haute couture. These garments were created by Her Highness Isabella of York (Coronation), her apprentices, Lord Angus the Tailor (Last Court), Lady Jacqueline Helene de Loisel (Male Courtier), as well as the help of other folks who assisted in some of the details to bring them to fruition. The window is a spectacular presentation of the passion of Her Highness for the Society for Creative Anachronism as well as other ventures in that same vein. In continued support of the textile arts & sciences and by permission of Greenberg & Hammer, Her Highness has garnered a 20% discount for all orders over $50, 15% discount for all orders under $50 and free shipping on all orders over $100, with proof of SCA membership (or simply mentioning this announcement). This offer is good until September 30, 2002. Greenberg & Hammer is for the serious costumer as well as the newcomers to the medium of expression, having an enormous inventory of all types of boning, muslin, buttons, embroidery flosses in silk, cotton & wool, professional irons, steamers, millinery, linings, interfacings, scissors, notions, etc. Call for their catalog at (212) 246-2836 or by e-mail at greenberghammer1@cs.com. Visit their website at www.greenberg-hammer.com. When in New York City, take time to visit them and, if before the end of September, enjoy the window. It is a testament to the Society. Please pass this announcement to all lists SCA-wide. Greenberg will be displaying pictures of the costumes on their website as well. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 18:02:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26282 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:02:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ILmKE04040; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:48:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ILmGN29642; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ILd4N24631 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17VIzF-000BBq-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:39:02 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT and On T Moulin Rouge References: <00c701c22e24$d53de960$b66d4ed5@pavilion> <001901c22e43$91549040$3bcfadcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <001901c22e43$91549040$3bcfadcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:32:30 +0100 Status: RO michaela wrote >> Don't you have regular TB vacines there ? With the test ? > >Do you have any idea how that comes across? > >Anyway. >http://www.adm.monash.edu.au/ohse/documents/policies/Procedures_for_TB.html > >While we aren't in Oz that's pretty well the procedure so you only get the >vaccine if you need it. I just don't know why we were not checked up on. I >suspect the community health workers expected the chool health nurses to >follow up and vice versa. Why no one listened when I mentioned the test.. I >dunno. Maybe they couldn't belive that a middle class white kid could be in >a situation where she would be in high risk. > >Most people of my >> generation 40 ish and earlier are immune. Wheras most youngsters today >> aren't, because they no longer have any exposure to it. There were several >> social implications to having TB and it wasn't completly accepted as >trendy >> and arty in British Society, amoungst the general society. > >We're talking 19th C. And I never said it was trendy. However when you have >many many women in Opera's and plays and novels dying of it you have to ask >why. > It's the same as the "heroin chic" of the late 80s - it made you thin and pale, and was linked to that exciting, dangerous, romantic edge-of-the-underworld. Frightfully fashionable and romantic to watch on stage, as long as you didn't get too close to the reality. And I think most of the women in operas dying of it were prostitutes, or at least "morally suspect" anyhow. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 18:15:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26388 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:15:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IM14E05432; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:01:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IM12N06572; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ILn9N00295 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:49:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VJ90-0003Dv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:49:07 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Awesome Fabric offer Organization: PII Message-ID: <001001c22ea3$9c8e17a0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:39:31 -0700 Status: RO Accck! A day too late-I just called in my order to them yesterday! Thanks for sharing though! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 18:37:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26512 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IMN1E07657; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMN0N18357; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f230.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.230]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMCdN12699 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:12:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:12:33 -0700 Received: from 12.232.52.91 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:12:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.232.52.91] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2002 22:12:33.0743 (UTC) FILETIME=[3753FDF0:01C22EA8] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:12:33 -0700 Status: RO (Somehow I get the feeling it's this thread that's been so busy these last two days, so I'll keep it short.) I'm now a sophomore at the UC Santa Cruz (or will be, when I go back in September), studying Theater Arts (specifically, Design, though I'm not sure what part yet). I spent about ten years in and graduated from the Pleasanton Unified School District in the East Bay area of California, and when I was in middle school (ie 6-8th grades) we *did* have a Home Ec unit that covered sewing. In fact, it's one of the few parts I can remember from that class. We made a little rainbow-colored windsock out of strips of fabric and memory wire, and purchased "To Sew" pillow kits to work on over winter break. It wasn't much, but I blame my current hobby/addiction/lifestyle on that. :) But the important point is that we *had* sewing, and the boys *did* have to take it - along with units on childcare, nutrition, laundry, and cooking. I just figured it was the school district's revenge for all of us who hated Industrial Technology... -Laura _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 18:41:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26584 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IMRNE08061; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMRLN20774; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMEKN13590 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:14:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.f4.1ea3a56c (4242) for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:14:07 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rabbit Pelts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f4.1ea3a56c.2a6897af_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10571 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:14:07 EDT Status: RO --part1_f4.1ea3a56c.2a6897af_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear listmembers: A few days ago someone asked about the curing/taning of rabbit pelts. I misplaced that email. I did however remember immediately that in my home SCA group we have a guy who did a lot of research and experimented with the period tanning process. I posted your message to our group list serve. The gentleman just called me and asked me to post his email address to this list. He will gladly share his recipie/formular as well as his research with anyone interested. I saw a lambs fur he had tanned and it came out great. He really spend a lot of time perfecting the process. He told me he even has a formula to make your own alum, which I guess is one of the ingredients. Sorry, I am not that much into science. But anyone interested please contact Lord Cynwyl (sorry I don't even know his real name) directly at: badgerdude2@aol.com Elisabeth --part1_f4.1ea3a56c.2a6897af_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear listmembers:
A few days ago someone asked about the curing/taning of rabbit pelts. I misplaced that email.  I did however remember immediately that in my home SCA group we have a guy who did a lot of research and experimented with the period tanning process. I posted your message to our group list serve.  The gentleman just called me and asked me to post his email address to this list.  He will gladly share his recipie/formular as well as his research with anyone interested.

I saw a lambs fur he had tanned and it came out great.  He really spend a lot of time perfecting the process.  He told me he even has a formula to make your own alum, which I guess is one of the ingredients.  Sorry, I am not that much into science.  

But anyone interested please contact Lord Cynwyl (sorry I don't even know his real name) directly at:

      badgerdude2@aol.com

Elisabeth --part1_f4.1ea3a56c.2a6897af_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 18:50:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26773 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:50:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IMa5E08919; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:36:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMa3N25558; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMPHN19620 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:25:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZG00CN2UA4YF@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:25:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] YIPPEEE!!!!! In-reply-to: <010e01c22e29$97bedcc0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020718135839.00d47410@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:59:26 -0700 Status: RO > >Ladies with Long Flowing Hair: 15 Lady 11 and lady 12 look a lot alike. Might they be the same woman? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 18:58:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26912 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:58:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IMiIE09635; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMiGN29999; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMPIN19627 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:25:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZG00CN2UA4YF@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:25:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 In-reply-to: <003201c22e47$fd67f700$01fea8c0@vaio> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020718140459.00d5cb40@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020717114511.00c9dab0@mail.frys.com> <002001c22de2$2f5a48a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:05:42 -0700 Status: RO > She was appalled to learn that colleges are teaching about the same >attitude - design is all, they can always hire some "sewing monkey" to make >the patterns work and make a mock-up. \ >Another friend has the same experience - she is running her own historical >clothing business (FashionsinTime.com) and was told she didn't have enough >experience to enroll in a Fashion program because she didn't have the art, >specifically drawing, background. They didn't teach any sewing, and didn't >count any designing/making experience, because the only programs involved >Fashion. > All of us don't see how you separate them, but then, we aren't prepared >to go spend money on more college to find out if they are teaching anything >actually useful! Maybe that's why fashions are so funny-looking these days - because it was designed by someone who couldn't sew! Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 19:03:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27065 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:03:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IMmQE10099; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMmPN02353; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMPIN19632 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:25:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZG00CN2UA4YF@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:25:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport book opinions? In-reply-to: <001201c22e62$94201b40$6501a8c0@Home> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020718141711.00c9fb10@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020717195427.00cae5c0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:15:48 -0700 Status: RO >I have heard several of you mention Davenport's costume book, but have >been unable to find a copy locally to look at. I understand it is a two >volume set. Can any of you tell me a little more about it-time periods, >layout etc. And are there some cautions you are familiar with in using >it as a source? OT one H, I'd say it is the best two-volume costume library anywhere. It has over 2000 illustrations, from Sumeria and ancient Egypt to about 1867, usually sorted by country. It tells which museum or collection owns each piece the author shows, and it does so right in the caption, along with date, painter, and country of sitter. It shows actual garments wherever possible, from Coptic tunics and Bronze Age footed hose to Victorian braces, hankies, and hoop-skirt dresses. (Apparently, the Boston Fine Arts museum owns some garments actually worn by Elizabeth I, in the Elisabeth Day McCormick collection.) And it has background articles on the various periods as they relate to costume, and little side articles on things like pocket watches (actual examples shown), engraving, dyestuffs, Elisabeth I, and textile design (actual examples shown) in the Renaissance. There's even a bit on what shape of costume was worn in what part of Germany in the early 1500s. I am often able to pull examples out of Davenport to cite on this list, because there are so many of them. The latest was on fabric printing in the 12th-15th centuries, of which there are four actual examples shown in Davenport. I rely heavily on this book as a place to start my research, but it's certainly not my only source. OT other H, printing technology wasn't nearly as good when the book was originally published (1948), and the picture quality, how shall I say this politely, sucks. This is somewhat offset by the fact that I have never seen some of these examples anywhere else. But the pictures are not as sharp and clear as we have come to expect from modern technology. Then there's the fact that the book inexplicably cuts off at about 1867, no reason given. Yes, I am biased. If it were in print again (it comes back periodically) I would recommend it to everyone whose period it covers. This book is why I became a historical costumer, and what really got me into sewing, after bad experiences in Home-Ec class. My mother gave me the one-volume edition for my ( ) birthday, and had to have it re-bound 20 years later, again as a birthday present, because I'd read it to tatters. I grew up with this book, and it would be the first thing I'd rescue in case of fire (my kids live elsewhere). Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 19:20:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27291 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:20:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6IN6CE11322; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IN6AN10354; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:06:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IMwRN07060 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17VKE6-00071m-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:58:26 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <003201c22e47$fd67f700$01fea8c0@vaio> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:06:45 -0400 Status: RO My home ec classes were in the 70s in Pennsylvania. We fought to be allowed to take woodshop, and as an experiment they let 3 girls into the class. We got the top 3 scores on the lathe test so we got to use the lathe machines to make lamps, whereas the guys had to make sailboat plaques. Then in 8th grade for some reason they would not let us take metal shop (guess they didn't want us showing up the boys again), so they made me take sewing. I think the class project was an apron or something- I asked the teacher if I could make something else and she said yes. I made green pants with a plaid overshirt complete with pockets and matched plaid. In 9th grade I had to take the cooking class, and since I knew how to cook and bake quite well by then I was bored silly. I still hated the fact that they made us eat lemon-merengue pie at 9 am. I still don't like the stuff. I am not sure they even teach home-ec anymore. My oldest brother was able to take a class called "singles survival" which taught him how to sew on a button and fry a hamburger, I think. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 19:29:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27327 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:29:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6INF5E12003; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6INF4N14193; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6IN7hN11117 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:07:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17VKN5-0000KU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:07:43 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20020718095142.00c70190@pop.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:16:02 -0400 Status: RO Margo, you are near my sister (who is in Sacramento). Unfortunately she does not have the sewing bug. She can do it, but has not made any clothes since she was a teenager to my knowledge. At least she owns a sewing machine. Perhaps next time I come out to visit her I can drive up and meet you. HOwever,she is coming to see me next month so I won't be out any time soon. But wait..... if the pattern is ready she could bring it with her........ (I'm trying) -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 12:52 PM To: h-costume@indra.com; h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? At 06:27 AM 07/18/2002 -0700, Saragrace knauf wrote: >Just curious-(I am in the US). How far do you have to travel to collect >as a group? I'm in a rural part of California, and I have to drive 50 miles to go the the Scaramento Costumer's guilds meetings. There are oher local people who do Renn faires (two of whom turn out to live across the street from me!) we have a local not very active SCA shire, and there are a number of local groups who do really lame 19th century reenactment, as well as a few people who do it a bit better, but as far as I can tell, I'm the only serious costumer in town. (If anyone reading this is in the Placerville area and feels otherwise, please let me know!) Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 19:55:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27413 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:55:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6INf2E13715; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6INf1N24467; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6INYDN21659 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-65.58.237.22.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [65.58.237.22]) by pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6INYBQ215640 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:34:12 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c22eb3$d7414d80$16ed3a41@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <000001c22e95$791a0b70$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cost] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:35:44 -0400 Status: RO Actually, this is for a Church Primary activity. I'm probably taking it more seriously than any of the prents involved. What surprised me is how many dead ends I ran into. This is sooo not my period. (interested as a child, just never tried seriously to recreate it.) I had figured it would be easier, as it's part of our nation's rather recent history and all, but didn't seem to look in any of the right places.;-p Thanks for getting me started.;-) Moira > "Little House" would only offend the purists, and they will likely be > offended by plenty other costumes than yours, so go ahead, use them. > > Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 20:08:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27463 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:08:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6INs2E14582; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6INs0N29492; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from proxy.ea.gov.au (proxy.ea.gov.au [155.187.2.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6INgGN25015 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from parkes07.ea.gov.au ([155.187.160.26]) by proxy.ea.gov.au (8.9.2/EAFWv1) with SMTP id JAA29704 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:36:49 +1000 (EST) Received: from EA-Message_Server by parkes07.ea.gov.au with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:46:01 +1000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 From: "Annette Wilson" To: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:45:47 +1000 Status: RO Rachel, There is a web page including a pattern for this very shirt (lifted from an article by Jane Arnold) at: http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/shirt.html Enjoy Annette Wilson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 20:08:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27468 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:08:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6INsFE14616; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6INsEN29605; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from proxy.ea.gov.au (proxy.ea.gov.au [155.187.2.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6INgGN25014 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from parkes07.ea.gov.au ([155.187.160.26]) by proxy.ea.gov.au (8.9.2/EAFWv1) with SMTP id JAA29700 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:36:49 +1000 (EST) Received: from EA-Message_Server by parkes07.ea.gov.au with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:46:01 +1000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 From: "Annette Wilson" To: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:45:47 +1000 Status: RO Rachel, There is a web page including a pattern for this very shirt (lifted from an article by Jane Arnold) at: http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/shirt.html Enjoy Annette Wilson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 20:25:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27571 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:25:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J0B3E15638; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J0B2N05984; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f148.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J01HN02264 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:01:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:01:12 -0700 Received: from 64.123.14.32 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:01:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.123.14.32] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooray for mothers, was Re: shop and home economics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jul 2002 00:01:12.0028 (UTC) FILETIME=[648759C0:01C22EB7] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:01:11 +0000 Status: RO I'll second that HOORAY!! My mother and I didn't always get along, but now that we do - it's great! I've got a Friend I'm not ever likely to loose touch with!! (and even better - she understands and fully supports my fabric/textile compulsion!!) She's the one who took me to my first Ren Faire - my first brush with Historic Costuming. Mary/Katerine >I guess I must feel very mellow and soppy due to this blasted flu, but so >many >have said that their moms taught them how to sew and do needlework. I >remember >sitting on my mum's lap because I couldn't reach the pedal of the sewing >machine and making the first simple clothes for my beloved Barbie doll >(should >tell you something that I used the Ken dolls as cleaners, gardeners, cooks >and >chauffeurs for my career-Baries ;-) She taught me all I know about sewing >and >knitting and crocheting (admittedly she didn't embroider, I started one day >and >was able to do it, I don't have a clue why!) and she still makes much >better >and nicer 21st century clothes than I can. I thought I'd just say a quick >HOORAY for mums! > >Nicole - still picking up the phone to germany and wanting to talk to my >mum >when feeling rotten or when something extra nice happens. ;-))) > >===== >Nicole Kipar M.A. >Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs >Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: marquis@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 23:00:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28161 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:00:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J2jfE21708; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:45:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J2jXN15921; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:45:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J2F0N03085 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17VNII-0008HE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:14:58 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooray for mothers, was Re: shop and home economics X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 209.165.119.195 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:14:58 -0400 Status: RO > I'll second that HOORAY!! My mother and I didn't always get along, but now > that we do - it's great! I've got a Friend I'm not ever likely to loose > touch with!! > > (and even better - she understands and fully supports my fabric/textile > compulsion!!) She's the one who took me to my first Ren Faire - my first > brush with Historic Costuming. Same with me. I was 12 and was suspicious that anything my mom thought was going to be cool could actually *be* cool (this was about 6 months before I realized that my mom is one of the coolest people on the planet) but she kept insisting that I was going to love this renaissance faire thing and that we were going to go, no matter how much I whined and pouted about it. In fact, I have a diary entry handy from that day: "October 6, 1990- Dear Diary, We are going to a rennisonse (sic) fair 2 hours away. I can hardly wait to be couped up in a car for 2 hours, then get into some stuffy old outfit, then walk around in the burning hot sun in a long sleeved velvet dress, meant for winter. Oh Goody. Oh yeah, I don't have an ingrown toenail any more." Heheheheheh. Famous last words. :-) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 23:03:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28171 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:03:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J2V5E18696; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J2UcN09860; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:30:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J23XN27402 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:03:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17VN7D-00016G-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:03:31 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] current fashions: Sewing, England vs US X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 209.165.119.195 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:03:31 -0400 Status: RO Funny you should mention this... I love the lower waistline of today, personally. It makes sitting in jeans much more comfortable when they're not bisecting you at the waistline, especially if you have just a bit more belly than a Victoria's Secret underwear model. Ten years ago, I was consistantly unbuttoning the top button of my jeans to make it more comfortable to sit. I own mostly "lowrise" style jeans, but have two pairs that are basically hip-huggers and I have to get creative with my undies when wearing them (either make the underwear interesting enough so that when you sit down or bend over people get an amusing eyefull) or deal with that very worst of female torture devices, the thong (in my world, it's worse than high heels). But the weird thing that suddenly struck me a little while ago was when it dawned on me that because I had become so accustomed to lowrise jeans, and a longer waistline all together, I had been measuring my waist at the wrong point! Almost 2 full inches lower than where it should be! This explained why my bodices were fitting a little weird... It was one of those moments where "Duh" says it all. ;-) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com > > Actually I find the wearing of the waistband far below > the waist to be the most difficult part of current > fashions. Both of my girls (24 and 19) won't wear > anything at their natural waistline. It reminds me of > the crepe paper costume book I have from the 1920s > where the costumes were all made with the lowered > waist look of that period rather than the historical > period of the costumes. Interesting. Weird looking > now, but I bet it looked fine to their eyes. > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:50:19 +0000 (GMT) > From: Teddy > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, > To: h-costume@indra.com > Organization: Middlesex University > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > Let's see, is there anyone on this list, in the UK, > who actually > > *likes* current fashion?? > > I find there's a *wider* range of "fashion" around now > > than there > was in the 80's and 90's.... lots of "retro" styels > are back in and > there seems to be less pressure to conform to a > particular one > style/fashion scene than there was when I was a > teenager (and > had no idea what wa "in" and what was "out", besides > being too shy > to attempt wearing anything even vaguely fashionable). > > Personally, I love flares ("Not the distress-signal, > the trousers, > though possibly they are worn as a cry for help"... to > > quote Victoria > Wood...) and baggy trousers and would happily buy > and wear > them if they were; (a) cheaper and (b) not made in > such awful > synthetic fabrics. One of the library assistants here > > is a trendy > young thing and just yesterday he was wearing some > very nice > "Shaggy from Scooby-doo" style trousers that I was > admiring until I > got close enough to see what they were made of. > > > > Teddy > > --__--__-- > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Absence of evidence, isn't necessarily evidence of absence." -Carl Sagab _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 18 23:41:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28295 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:41:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J3QpE29380; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J3QXN02414; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:26:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J3C2N26518 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.16] (as-5-30.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.16]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6J3C0D23571 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] current fashions: Sewing, England vs US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:09:09 -0700 Status: RO At 10:03 PM -0400 7/18/02, Sarah Lorraine wrote: >Funny you should mention this... I love the lower waistline of today, >personally. It makes sitting in jeans much more comfortable when >they're not bisecting you at the waistline, especially if you have just >a bit more belly than a Victoria's Secret underwear model. Ten years >ago, I was consistantly unbuttoning the top button of my jeans to make >it more comfortable to sit. I own mostly "lowrise" style jeans, but >have two pairs that are basically hip-huggers and I have to get creative >with my undies when wearing them (either make the underwear interesting >enough so that when you sit down or bend over people get an amusing >eyefull) or deal with that very worst of female torture devices, the >thong (in my world, it's worse than high heels). I have to laugh, because when I read the preceding post about the "wearing of the waistband far below the waist", I didn't visualize hip-huggers -- I visualized the favored style in my area which is "if I didn't have boxers on, you'd be seeing my entire butt-crack". (I've had it carefully explained to me exactly what the cultural context and significance of this style is, but it's still all I can do not to burst out in hysterical laughter every time I see one of these "cool" young men hitching his pants up because having the crotch fall below knee-level makes it hard to walk.) I'm sure there were styles equally as ridiculous when I was a teenager, but _I_ wasn't wearing them! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 04:25:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01613 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:25:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J8AGE15136; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:10:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8A7p14995; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40011.mail.yahoo.com (web40011.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6J7mFp10244 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 01:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020719074809.64057.qmail@web40011.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40011.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:48:09 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [europe16thc] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:48:09 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Thanks for the offer Drea, I think I shall just have to drive over and see it myself. After I have attempted to contact the curator in writing and see about an appointment to view it. Rachel --- Drea Leed As chance would have it, I'm currently in Bath looking at the costumes. > :) But they don't allow photos, and don't have any better pictures > available than the one you listed. I can try and describe details, if you > want. > > Thanks, > > Drea > > > > On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Rachel wrote: > > > Having agreed to make an exact reproduction of the above shirt for a friend I am in need of > > pictures of the above shirt. I need to find pictures of the embroidery in detail and on the > shirt > > as a whole. Does anyone know of any resources that show this kind of detail or have any > pictures > > that they would not mind emailing me? > > > > I have been onto the museum of costume in bath and they were worse than useless. The only > picture > > they have is on their website at: > > > > > http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseAction=SM.nav&UUID=013DFA14-32A6-4A33-B3CDA4E8E00C9D49 > > > > It's the one on the left. > > > > At a pinch I can travel to BAth to have a look myself but it is rather a long drive for a > single > > shirt! > > > > Thanks > > > > Rachel > > > > ===== > > Rachel > > > > Tudor Bibliography > > http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > > Will You Find True Love? > > Will You Meet the One? > > Free Love Reading by phone! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/ps3dMC/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/sK9olB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 04:29:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07958 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:29:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J8FEE15280; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8FCp16233; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J3J3N29302 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-004nvlvegp282.dialsprint.net ([206.133.195.212] helo=[0019381808]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VOII-0002tf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:19:02 -0400 From: "Katherine" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Twill was Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) Message-ID: <3D3723DB.16593.F358CF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3D365852.EB58C8C1@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: kcg@sprynet.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:23:55 -0700 Status: RO Hi, I've been wondering what periods you could use silk twill for. I fell in love with the feel of my sample from Dharma, but wasn't quite sure where it would be appropriate. The time frame that I sew is Regency/Victorian though I plan on branching out into the 18th century soon. Any ideas would be apprecciated!!! Thanks, Katherine On 17 Jul 2002 at 23:55, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Yeah....sigh.... > I'm actually thinking of ordering some silk twill from Dharma Trading, and > doing a whole gown in either tansy or knapweed (they're both growing > rampant around here.....) --Sue, too many centuries, too many colors, not > enough time > Katherine "I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they can make fun of the public without its revolting." Marie, Queen of Roumania My Dress Site http://www.koshka-the-cat.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 04:30:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07970 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:30:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J8FfE15328; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8Fdp16360; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx12.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J3YHN05366 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.101]) by mx12.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 48030307 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:33:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003201c22e47$fd67f700$01fea8c0@vaio> References: <4.3.1.2.20020717114511.00c9dab0@mail.frys.com> <002001c22de2$2f5a48a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <003201c22e47$fd67f700$01fea8c0@vaio> To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:34:15 -0400 Status: RO Rowena: > But what you are describing is the case here, too, for most places. A >friend of mine is the designer for a lot of the JC Penny lines. Her boss >and she had a few rough years when he kept adding the contracts, and then >thought that instead of giving her a raise, he would just hire other people. >Not one graduate could sew or make a mock-up pattern - and not one person >they could find could. Anyone who can is getting paid some fairly high >bucks down in NYC! > She was appalled to learn that colleges are teaching about the same >attitude - design is all, they can always hire some "sewing monkey" to make >the patterns work and make a mock-up. \ >Another friend has the same experience - she is running her own historical >clothing business (FashionsinTime.com) and was told she didn't have enough >experience to enroll in a Fashion program because she didn't have the art, >specifically drawing, background. They didn't teach any sewing, and didn't >count any designing/making experience, because the only programs involved >Fashion. That's really interesting to me, since I've tried and failed to get my young-adult daughter interested in sewing- especially now that she's thinking she'll be a fashion designer. It's rather discouraging that if she ever finishes high school or gets a GED (she dropped out- long story), the schools won't give her a reality check... She does do nice, though very naive, sketches but has NO idea of what they'd be made of or how they's go together- she feels that's appropriately left to the peons. I'm sure you hear my eyes rolling! -Amanda who needs to make an Art Nouveau gown sometime soonish _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 04:30:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07974 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:30:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J8FlE15340; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8Fkp16389; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:15:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.23]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J3aLN06128 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.101]) by dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 70102469 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:36:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020718084916.33641.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020718084916.33641.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:36:16 -0400 Status: RO I'm in the US myself, but I have a historically-minded friend in the UK who would be interested in such a circle- we've just been commiserating on our lack of sewing friends via email! So if something happens with it, I'll let her know. -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 04:30:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07979 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:30:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J8GKE15419; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8GHp16615; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:16:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f130.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.130]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J5Asp10693 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:10:49 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.81 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:10:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.81] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jul 2002 05:10:49.0261 (UTC) FILETIME=[A56C25D0:01C22EE2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:10:48 -0700 Status: RO >The Home Ec and Shop classes I took were in 1960 while in Junior High. >Everyone took one semester of Home Ec (boys too!) and everyone took wood >shop (girls too >Regina Romsey > Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how many >of us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting >the declining home sewing industry... > > --Gillian the seamstress I had the half year of all inclusive "home-ec" and half year of shop. My dad was a carpenter so I took wood shop as my choice and made shelves, etc. In home-ec we had cooking, then sewing, then home management. I took off from the time we did sewing and the first gown I made was a floor length satin formal with a dotted swiss yoke and ruffles. I just bought patterns and read the directions carefully from there. I learn a lot more here about how it used to be done and it has been wonderful learning more and more. At least I know there will be years worth of continuing growth. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 04:31:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07983 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J8GRE15434; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8GOp16663; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:16:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out018.verizon.net (out018pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.96]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J5G3p13286 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.133.186]) by out018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.05 201-253-122-126-105-20020426) with SMTP id <20020719051557.GYPW9817.out018.verizon.net@default> for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:15:57 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020719051443.00735238@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Moulin Rouge Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 01:14:43 -0400 Status: RO At 06:48 PM 7/17/02 -0400, you wrote: >> >> Also, what is Absinthe? >> >>Absinthe, at the time, was an alchoholic drink flavored with wormwood. It >>was dangerously strong and hallucinogenic, so much so that it ruined lives. >> Sort of the crack cocaine of its day. Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.... Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 04:31:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07987 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:31:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J8GuE15486; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8Gsp16835; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J735p29542 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 01:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZH00ADHI920W@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:03:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] current fashions: Sewing, England vs US In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020718235846.00c95860@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:00:26 -0700 Status: RO >I own mostly "lowrise" style jeans, but >have two pairs that are basically hip-huggers and I have to get creative >with my undies when wearing them (either make the underwear interesting >enough so that when you sit down or bend over people get an amusing >eyefull) or deal with that very worst of female torture devices, the >thong (in my world, it's worse than high heels). All my underpants are low-rise, and normal around the legs. But my jeans are a few inches higher than they are. I tuck my shirts into my underpants, and they stay tucked in without the underpants showing. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 04:56:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08104 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:56:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J8gJE16242; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:42:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8gGp22441; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8I9p17125 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA23497.; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:18:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:17:58 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] current fashions: Sewing, England vs US Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6J8I9p17125 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:17:38 +0100 Status: RO >>> delasue@yahoo.com 07/18/02 06:07pm >>> wrote: [snip] It reminds me of >the crepe paper costume book I have from the 1920s >where the costumes were all made with the lowered >waist look of that period rather than the historical >period of the costumes. Interesting. Weird looking >now, but I bet it looked fine to their eyes. Similarly, you can always tell 18th century portraits in "Vandyke" costume from real 17th century people because 18th century artists gave the figures long waists, which must have looked more "natural" to their eyes. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 05:05:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08133 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:05:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J8pBE16480; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:51:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8p9p24364; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J8WLp20233 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF251C50222; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:34:45 -0500 Message-ID: <005f01c22efe$d81c4f20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020718135839.00d47410@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] YIPPEEE!!!!! X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:32:39 -0400 Status: RO I am glad you all are enjoying the hairstyles website. It was a lot of fun working on it. Ladies 11 & 12 were purchased from different locations. One came from eBay, the other was purchased locally. So I doubt they are kin to one another. You have a good eye for details Kayta! Did you all see the Halloween photo, lady #14, long hair section? I did a little write up about the background... the ladies are playing a game. When I first received this stereoview, I was wondering why was the Halloween and husband's phrase printed on it. Sometimes you just never know what you are getting! Also, did you all see the lady that I named the site after... #9 same section. She is holding a brush. I love her dress! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 05:27:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08221 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:27:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J9DCE17158; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:13:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J9D9p29674; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10303.mail.yahoo.com (web10303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.81]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6J95Pp27802 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020719090524.57006.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.7.142.107] by web10303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:05:24 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207190829.g6J8TWp19558@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-861136210-1027069524=:56996" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Arnold articles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:05:24 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-861136210-1027069524=:56996 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For Janet Arnold's articles, have you tried the annual journals of The Costume Society (the UK one)? Arnold published articles in it quite regularly, and almost all of the back issues are still available through The Costume Society's website. Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-861136210-1027069524=:56996 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 For Janet Arnold's articles, have you tried the annual journals of The Costume Society (the UK one)?

Arnold published articles in it quite regularly, and almost all of the back issues are still available through The Costume Society's website.

Debbie.


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-861136210-1027069524=:56996-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 06:10:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08776 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:10:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6J9uCE18047; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J9uAp06920; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:56:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from priv-edtnes04.telusplanet.net (fepout2.telus.net [199.185.220.237]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6J9avp02968 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:36:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pauldes ([64.180.67.198]) by priv-edtnes04.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020719093651.HSSZ14925.priv-edtnes04.telusplanet.net@pauldes> for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:36:51 -0600 Message-ID: <000401c22f07$d1cdd7c0$cb4bb440@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Desamona Villani" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C22ECD.25350400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] documentation for diapers before 1600? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 02:36:54 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C22ECD.25350400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Somebody a while ago was wondering about diapers in the SCA period. In = the bottom right? hand corner, there is a basket. In the basket, there = are a bunch of folded linen? cloths. They look to be too small to be = cloths to wrap him in, could this be documentation for diapers? I don't = know. I just thought someone might be interested. http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/asp/showimage.asp?src=3D/ariadata/image/SK/Z/SK= -C-1458.Z.jpg Brandy ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C22ECD.25350400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Somebody a while ago was wondering = about diapers in=20 the SCA period.  In the bottom right? hand corner, there is a = basket. =20 In the basket, there are a bunch of folded linen? cloths.  They = look to be=20 too small to be cloths to wrap him in, could this be documentation for=20 diapers?  I don't know.  I just thought someone might be=20 interested.
 
 
http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/asp/showimage.asp?src=3D= /ariadata/image/SK/Z/SK-C-1458.Z.jpg
 
Brandy
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C22ECD.25350400-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 06:40:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08857 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:40:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JAQME18678; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:26:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAQHp13789; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JA3xp08715 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK9Z30O374001AS5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:03:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK9Z2O2JGM0011Y6@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:03:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:59:32 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:59:24 +0000 Received: from Linda19 (158.94.199.11) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:58:58 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, In-reply-to: <200207181651.g6IGpZN18204@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <251ECE3583B@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:58:57 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > It is a little difficult to ascertain the exact dimensions from > that photograph. It does make on wonder whether this is a mans > shirt or a womans. It is a better length for a womans shirt and > there is not a great deal of difference in the patterns used. > > I guess if you were wearing a very large pair of venetians you might > be able to get away with it though! Actually, it looks fine to me (and did when I saw it in person in January) Longer shirts are far more comfortable (I find) as they don't work their way out of your waistband at the back and ride up under your doublet. The only time i make my period shirts shorter is for my 15th century costumes where the hose are fitted al the way up to the waist, for tudor and elizabethan, the bottom par to fthe shirt teasily fits inside trunk-hose or britches - the shirt fabrics aren't all that thick and bulky, after all. My new 16th shirt is about that long. Doubles up as a nightshirt for in period weekend or overnight events. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 06:46:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08864 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:46:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JAVGE18821; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAVCp14963; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAJtp12312 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:19:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KK9ZMYDVQO0010S4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:19:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KK9ZMXSFFO001AD5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:19:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:15:52 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:15:43 +0000 Received: from Linda19 (158.94.199.11) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:15:15 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? In-reply-to: <200207181651.g6IGpZN18204@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <25232890892@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:15:14 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > Over here, there are few that would even *consider* travelling that > > far for a one day event.... some not even for a weekend event.... > > let alone for a "sewing circle". > > I'm one of those who don't mind, I travel to work (thank goodness not > London) but I find it normal travelling over an hour to see my > seamstress, or 45 mins one way to work, etc. I have a 90 minute journey (across London) to get to work each day, but it's a regular public transport commute. Anything else, I'd need Tom, or someone else with a car, to drive me... makes long trips for one-day events kinda difficult/expensive/time-consuming (half a day travelling for less than a couple of hours at the event etc) > > Costume Guild UK has trouble getting significant numbers people > > together in one place (even though it's open to non costume guild > > members) to work on costumes/sewing etc for a day event even when > > there are displays or workshops offered to "sweeten the pot," and a > > nice big hall so big things can be layed out and there would be > > other people around to help/advise/share experience etc. > > REALLY??? they are doing that?? teddy, the problem is that I never > knew! It just isn't known, the info just does not get out. Look at > GBCG, super web site, lots of info, but there's nothing interesting on > the costume guild UK, I looked lately and couldn't find it. It just > isn't known! I would come. News Nicole, a lot of small groups aren't on the web... Several of our existing memebers don't have email or webaccess, or do but don't actually spend more than a few hours a month on it, if that. That sort of group tends to advertise by word of mouth, paper fliers and in publications. The CGUK has had a website for a number of years but minimal information about the group not regularly updated stuff about upcoming events due to time constraints on the people who put up the websites (the current person is more web-minded so is/has been redoing it (when she has time). Next time we organise a get-together, I can let you know. Like "Costume Closet" a one day event which is coming up in November (I'll get details) which Tom is organising as a prelude to a weekend costume convention, called Wardrobe next year. I'll get details to pass on to anyone interested.... I think there may be some on the CGUK website at.... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CGUKNews/files/Index.html I just noticed that they also list the CGUK costume open-days (about one every 3 months) on there Details of Costume closet are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WardrobeUK/files/Index.html and of Wardrobe at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WardrobeUK/files/Index.html in case any UK costumers are interested... Please note these are *NOT* events for CGUK members only - they are open to anyone interested in costume. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 06:58:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08898 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:58:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JAiHE19091; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAiGp17992; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JARkp14142 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZH005FCRQ83X@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:27:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] documentation for diapers before 1600? In-reply-to: <000401c22f07$d1cdd7c0$cb4bb440@bc.hsia.telus.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020719032043.00d50100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:21:54 -0700 Status: RO I only got the upper left-hand corner of the picture. Wrap him in? What is this a picture of? >Somebody a while ago was wondering about diapers in the SCA period. In >the bottom right? hand corner, there is a basket. In the basket, there >are a bunch of folded linen? cloths. They look to be too small to be >cloths to wrap him in, could this be documentation for diapers? I don't >know. I just thought someone might be interested. > > >http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/asp/showimage.asp?src=/ariadata/image/SK/Z/SK-C-1458.Z.jpg > >Brandy Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:03:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08924 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:03:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JAmZE19215; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAmYp18838; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:48:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JARlp14147 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:27:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZH005FCRQ83X@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:27:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] current fashions: Sewing, England vs US In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020719031342.00a69f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:27:41 -0700 Status: RO > >the crepe paper costume book I have from the 1920s > >where the costumes were all made with the lowered > >waist look of that period rather than the historical > >period of the costumes. Interesting. Weird looking > >now, but I bet it looked fine to their eyes. I have a Dennison crepe paper costumes book from the early Twenties. Pretty amazing what you could do - if you didn't sweat and make the dye run. >Similarly, you can always tell 18th century portraits in "Vandyke" costume >from real 17th century people because 18th century artists gave the >figures long waists, which must have looked more "natural" to their eyes. I also have a 'de-commissioned' San Francisco Opera costume, which is 1922 doing Georgian. The waist is dropped, the bodice is fitted all around, and the engageant ruffles are sewn-on pleated chiffon. Very early Twenties. I got it because that is my favourite fashion hybrid - Nineteen-Teens and early Twenties doing Georgian, like some of the Blanche Fisher Wright illustrations in 'The Real Mother Goose'. I have some cotton printed with sprigs of cherries, and another with pale flowers and pink ribbons on a pale grey background, and some day I will do one of these hybrids out of one of them. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:07:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08950 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:07:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JArCE19372; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAqpp19868; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAYKp15747 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKA05SLFTC00126B@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:34:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKA05SC3KW001BK9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:34:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:30:17 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:30:04 +0000 Received: from Linda19 (158.94.199.11) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:29:50 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: e: [h-cost] Mary Poppins (WAS: Sewing, England vs US,) In-reply-to: <200207181819.g6IIJhN10570@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2526FC51B33@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:29:49 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > Awww... but it's one of my favourites - I even know the whistling > > part that the robin does. Teddy > > But Teddy, you aren't here to hear it. (And people around me get > really tired of it.) They could join in.... > Between Mary Poppins and Oliver!, I have a tendency to burst into > song when I hear certain phrases. I don't do it unless I'm in a > pretty good frame of mind. In spite of unemployment I've been > singing to myself a lot. (Woe to those around me.) At the moment my colleagueas are having to put up with me bursting into songs from Follies (Who's That Woman; Could I Leave You; Ah, But Underneath and Rain on the Roof... possibly Buddies Blues if I'm feeling frantic) Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:17:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08970 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:17:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JB2LE19871; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:02:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JB2Ip22113; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:02:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAoqp19377 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb03la (unverified [10.1.200.104]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:46:56 -0700 thread-index: AcIvEZnGhR93smFFT9u8xykxOFpqaw== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Message-ID: <09b801c22f11$99c80fd0$0ec8a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_09B9_01C22ED6.ED6937D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:46:56 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_09B9_01C22ED6.ED6937D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm also a member of the Costume Guild, but everything they do seems to be down south. Another point of Americans being prepared to drive further and longer than us here in the UK is that their petrol/gas is much cheaper. Our public transport is expensive and a nightmare too! Teddy, do you know of any people up here, in Yorkshire sort of area? I have been fascinated by costuming for ages, but have never made anything except my wedding dress as I would never get to wear it - good old Yorkshire thriftiness prevents me making anything with _no_ end use in mind. (Apart from my wedding dress, and knowing what I know now, I desperately want to take it apart and remake the bodice, with a corset etc to go with, but see above as to why I haven't). Frustrated Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_09B9_01C22ED6.ED6937D0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm also a member of the Costume Guild, but everything they do seems to be down south.

Another point of Americans being prepared to drive further and longer than us here in the UK is that their petrol/gas is much cheaper. Our public transport is expensive and a nightmare too!

Teddy, do you know of any people up here, in Yorkshire sort of area? I have been fascinated by costuming for ages, but have never made anything except my wedding dress as I would never get to wear it - good old Yorkshire thriftiness prevents me making anything with _no_ end use in mind.

(Apart from my wedding dress, and knowing what I know now, I desperately want to take it apart and remake the bodice, with a corset etc to go with, but see above as to why I haven't).

Frustrated Freyalyn

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has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_09B9_01C22ED6.ED6937D0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:20:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08979 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:20:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JB6eE20057; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JB6Xp23169; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:06:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAeZp17221 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKA0DA4LLS0003ZB@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:40:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKA0D63S9Q001BK9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:40:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:36:15 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:36:00 +0000 Received: from Linda19 (158.94.199.11) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:35:39 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics In-reply-to: <200207182032.g6IKWIN16257@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <252891A2F72@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:35:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Which is just about the opposite reasoning from what my Mom used > when we were kids. She explained that learning to manage a sewing > machine pedal properly was _excellent_ practice for the day when > we'd get our learner's permits, and the more we sewed, the easier > it would be to learn the footwork of driving. (Especially relevant > since my family only owned manual transmission cars.) My ever learning to drive is well and truly stuffed then! I operate the foot-pedal with my *heel* most of the time. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:21:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08983 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:21:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JB7HE20094; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:07:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JB79p23344; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g6JAg6o17530 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:42:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooray for mothers, was Re: shop and home economics Message-ID: <20020719044205.E22949@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:42:06 -0600 Status: RO I'm the only child of 5 (three girls and two boys) who followed my mother into sewing. (Mom also brought me to my first SCA event.) After I was laid off from work last winter, she actually encouraged me to think about a costuming career. The problem is, as I discovered as an SCA merchant, that for me personally *having* to sew isn't as much fun for me as sewing when I *want* to, and I prefer to just do it on the side so I don't lose the love of it again. My mother-in-law sews, and is thrilled to have a daughter-in-law to share it with. Both of her daughters sew, too. She loves seeing the stuff I make for her son (who claims he is "minimally competent at sewing", but is phobic because all of the sewers he knows other than himself "are goddesses" :). ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:21:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08987 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:21:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JB7VE20113; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:07:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JB7Sp23431; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAhWp17820 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKA0GZUNB40019GJ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:43:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKA0GVP3QO001AD5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:43:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:39:14 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:38:58 +0000 Received: from Linda19 (158.94.199.11) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:38:37 +0000 From: Teddy In-reply-to: <200207182032.g6IKWIN16257@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <25295C95F4D@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] h-cost] URGENT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:38:36 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Can the moderator either set me to nomail or tell me at once how to > I've tried but it won't take it > > Mel She's on holiday Mel Sorry, i didn't keep the message that vcame through the other day from her saying how to do this sort of stuff while she was away.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:22:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08991 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:22:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JB7lE20138; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JB7jp23498; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:07:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JAqNp19746 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020719105215.GATO6023.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:52:15 +0000 Message-ID: <3D37EF5F.2030608@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport book opinions? References: <4.3.1.2.20020717195427.00cae5c0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020718141711.00c9fb10@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 03:52:15 -0700 Status: RO Could someone please give me the full title of the Davenport book. I've never have heard of it and am eager to take a look at it. Thank you. Roscelin Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I have heard several of you mention Davenport's costume book, but have > been unable to find a copy locally to look at. I understand it is a two > volume set. Can any of you tell me a little more about it-time periods, > layout etc. And are there some cautions you are familiar with in using > it as a source? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:31:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09009 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:31:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JBGcE20410; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:16:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JBGZp25648; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JB2gp22214 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-63.215.220.59.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [63.215.220.59]) by pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6JB2eQ193604 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:02:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c22f14$05305460$3bdcd73f@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] current fashions: Sewing, England vs US MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:04:13 -0400 Status: RO Whereas I almost always wore my waistline above my waistline, because it was more comfortable for me. (Of course, in my teen mind I may have been trying to hide a way overabundant chest size.) Moira Funny you should mention this... I love the lower waistline of today, > personally. It makes sitting in jeans much more comfortable _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:35:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09019 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:35:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JBLLE20565; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JBLKp26857; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:21:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JB7mp23511 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BB86B10EFFB for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010601c22f14$373c3820$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooray for mothers, was Re: shop and home economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:05:30 -0400 Status: RO > In fact, I have a diary entry handy from that day: > > "October 6, 1990- > Dear Diary, > We are going to a rennisonse (sic) fair 2 hours away. I can hardly wait > to be couped up in a car for 2 hours, then get into some stuffy old > outfit, then walk around in the burning hot sun in a long sleeved velvet > dress, meant for winter. Oh Goody. Oh yeah, I don't have an ingrown > toenail any more." > > Heheheheheh. Famous last words. :-) > > Sarah Sarah, that is the most typical 12 y.o. diary entry I've ever seen. I can picture the look on your face, and the sarcasm dripping from you when I read that! lolol!! btw, how's that toenail? Dianne cleaning the coffee off the monitor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:41:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09030 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JBQTE20762; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JBQSp28054; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:26:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JBCpp24716 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6773110F0DF for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <013901c22f14$e58d0170$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <25295C95F4D@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] h-cost] URGENT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:10:28 -0400 Status: RO I saved it. Dianne I am going on vacation beginning 7/26, and I will be gone for 3 weeks. During that time, there will be only minimal list maintenance going on. Please read and save this info, as it will also help you in the future. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- This mailing list has not been run with Majordomo for more than a year now, so using majordomo commands or the majordomo email address *will not work*. It's a waste of your time. If you go to the web site listed at the bottom of each list message: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume you can access all admin functions. Go to the very last box on the bottom, where it says "To change your subscription (set options like digest and delivery modes, get a reminder of your password, or unsubscribe), enter your subscription email address:" Enter your email address, and hit 'edit options'. You will then see a new page which shows you your personal configurations, and allows you to unsubscribe, change to or from digest, set yourself 'no mail', and other options. You must enter your password for these to take effect, so there's a box at the top to have the password mailed to you if you need it. If you want to sub or unsub, you can also send email to h-costume-request@indra.com with the subject line of 'subscribe' or 'unsubscribe'. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- That's it, it's all pretty simple, but if you try to do things with Majordomo, you're not going to get anywhere. ...eliz, list admin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 7:38 AM Subject: [h-cost] h-cost] URGENT > > > Can the moderator either set me to nomail or tell me at once how to > > I've tried but it won't take it > > > > Mel > > She's on holiday Mel > > Sorry, i didn't keep the message that vcame through the other day > from her saying how to do this sort of stuff while she was away.... > > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 07:49:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09050 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:49:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JBYjE21030; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:34:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JBYhp29683; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40004.mail.yahoo.com (web40004.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6JBG9p25529 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020719111603.86054.qmail@web40004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:16:03 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] h-cost] URGENT To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <25295C95F4D@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:16:03 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Mel, Go to: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Go right to the bottom of the page where it says "h-costume subscribers" If you put your email address in the bottom box and click edit options it takes you thorugh to another page where you can do all sorts of nifty things. To turn off receiving the list mail without unsubscribing look under the section called "Your h-costume subscription options". The first option is the one you want. Click the "On" option to disable mail delivery then scroll to the bottom of the section enter your password in the box and click "Submit changes" Rachel --- Teddy wrote: > > > Can the moderator either set me to nomail or tell me at once how to > > I've tried but it won't take it > > > > Mel > > She's on holiday Mel > > Sorry, i didn't keep the message that vcame through the other day > from her saying how to do this sort of stuff while she was away.... > > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 08:01:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09084 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:01:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JBlLE21539; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JBlIp02567; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JBYYp29664 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:34:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020719113428.GYXR6023.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:34:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3D37F944.3080505@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: e: [h-cost] Mary Poppins (WAS: Sewing, England vs US,) References: <2526FC51B33@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020604090008070600080302" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:34:28 -0700 Status: RO --------------020604090008070600080302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teddy wrote: >>>Awww... but it's one of my favourites - I even know the whistling >>>part that the robin does. Teddy >>> >>But Teddy, you aren't here to hear it. (And people around me get >>really tired of it.) >> > >They could join in.... > She doesn't want this student of her's to sing along with her. I'd scare the cats and anyone else around us. Roscelin > > --------------020604090008070600080302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teddy wrote:
Awww... but it's one of my favourites - I even know the whistling
part that the robin does. Teddy
But Teddy, you aren't here to hear it. (And people around me get
really tired of it.) 

They could join in....
She doesn't want this student of her's to sing along with her.  I'd scare the cats and anyone else around us.  

Roscelin


--------------020604090008070600080302-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 08:49:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09266 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:49:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JCZfE23012; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:35:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JCZVp13591; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JCIGp09479 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKA3RNGG80001ACJ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:18:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKA3RMO6380019H9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:18:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:14:11 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:13:57 +0000 Received: from Linda19 (158.94.199.11) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:13:45 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2542B17574F@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:13:44 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I'm also a member of the Costume Guild, but everything they do seems > to be down south. Costume Closet and Wardrobe will be in Warwick. Several of their predecessors (Masque: The British Costume Convention) have been in the Birmingham area and one in Nottingham > Teddy, do you know of any people up here, in Yorkshire sort of > area? Hmmm... not specifically Yorkshire, I don't think... and my Geography is dire, but Derby's a lot closer to you than London, and Maggie and Mike Percival (former zine editor and Chairman of CGUK) are both based just outside Derby. There are other northerners on h-costume too but with y geographical inaccuracy i'd hesitate to say how close any of them might be to you.... > I have been fascinated by costuming for ages, but have never made > anything except my wedding dress as I would never get to wear it - > good old Yorkshire thriftiness prevents me making anything with > _no_ end use in mind. Then you need to find some events you can get to. > (Apart from my wedding dress, and knowing what I know now, I > desperately want to take it apart and remake the bodice, with a corset > etc to go with, but see above as to why I haven't). Do you ever get down south? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 09:08:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09346 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:08:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JCrlE23602; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JCrjp18138; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:53:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JCUgp12307 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pauldes ([64.180.67.198]) by priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020719123036.IINF589.priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net@pauldes> for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:30:36 -0600 Message-ID: <001001c22f20$151d5ce0$cb4bb440@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Desamona Villani" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020719032043.00d50100@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] documentation for diapers before 1600? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:30:35 -0700 Status: RO try this link instead. It gives you the option of standard or GIANT size. The picture it'self is called, Adoration of the Magi, by Pieter Aertsen. The basket in question is in the lower right hand corner if you are looking at the painting. And the painting is about three magi presenting thier gifts to the infant Jesus. Right beside Mary, there is a basket. In the basket are a BUNCH of folded cloths. They look to be too small to be cloths to wrap his whole body in (for warmth), so my thought was that they might be period diapers. http://www.artcyclopedia.com/r/aertsen_pieter.html Sorry! Didn't mean to be ambiguous! Brandy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > I only got the upper left-hand corner of the picture. Wrap him in? What > is this a picture of? > > >Somebody a while ago was wondering about diapers in the SCA period. In > >the bottom right? hand corner, there is a basket. In the basket, there > >are a bunch of folded linen? cloths. They look to be too small to be > >cloths to wrap him in, could this be documentation for diapers? I don't > >know. I just thought someone might be interested. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 10:27:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09578 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:27:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JEDDE27972; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JEDCs10374; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:13:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JDUwp27982 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08674 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:55:33 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport book opinions? In-Reply-To: <3D37EF5F.2030608@attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:55:33 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Rose Amberwulf wrote: > Could someone please give me the full title of the Davenport book. I've > never have heard of it and am eager to take a look at it. Thank you. The Book of Costume, by Millia Davenport. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 10:31:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09593 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:31:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JEHdE28279; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:17:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JEHcs12322; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:17:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6JDkop02169 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:47:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Fri Jul 19 08:46:11 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:46:11 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6JDkop02169 Subject: [h-cost] Designers & Sewing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:46:01 -0500 Status: RO Maybe that's why fashions are so funny-looking these days - because it was designed by someone who couldn't sew! Kayta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ROFTL! I've had a similar discussion with an artist friend several times. He has a small collection of helmets he will study for his illustrations & sculpture but no costumes. Some of what he draws is just not possible :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 10:31:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09598 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:31:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JEHkE28297; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JEHgs12366; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:17:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JDskp04454 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:54:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m10.in-tch.com [216.166.191.10]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6JDenr08179 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:40:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D381B76.94E843EC@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Twill was Tansy wool (WAS: Photos of 1700... ) References: <3D3723DB.16593.F358CF@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:00:22 -0600 Status: RO Hi! (Sue waves...she's had some coffee, so she's waking up this morning ) My (rather broad) period for historical clothing and costume is pretty much medieval/renaissance, so I'm afraid I'm of no help at all with the 19th c. stuff, but I know there are folks on the list who can! In the initial flush of a successful fabric hunt, my first idea was to do something medieval--perhaps some sort of fitted gown? or something earlier? Something that the drape of the fabric would work with. ISTR, though, (haven't yet had *that* much coffee, durn it) that while some silk textiles survive from the time period I'm thinking of, it's the wools that were done in various twills, so I dunno what era or style will prove to be my best bet. --Sue, who does *not* need another excuse to buy fabric, but.....;-) Katherine wrote: > > Hi, > > I've been wondering what periods you could use silk twill for. I fell in love with the > feel of my sample from Dharma, but wasn't quite sure where it would be > appropriate. The time frame that I sew is Regency/Victorian though I plan on > branching out into the 18th century soon. Any ideas would be apprecciated!!! > > Thanks, > Katherine > > On 17 Jul 2002 at 23:55, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Yeah....sigh.... > > I'm actually thinking of ordering some silk twill from Dharma Trading, and > > doing a whole gown in either tansy or knapweed (they're both growing > > rampant around here.....) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 10:57:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09665 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:57:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JEhGE00162; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JEhEs23347; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:43:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6JEKds13682 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Fri Jul 19 09:20:27 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:20:27 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6JEKds13682 Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork Shirt Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:20:19 -0500 Status: RO Thanks for the offer Drea, I think I shall just have to drive over and see it myself. After I have attempted to contact the curator in writing and see about an appointment to view it. Rachel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please share! I finally bit the bullet and emailed the Bath museum about availability of slides for any of their collection. All I got was a very short one line reply that they did not have any other images availalbe (other than what was on the website). Would love to see these two pieces in more detail. On the subject of slides and/or pictures from museums; has anyone else had any luck with this? I don't know when or if I will ever be able to get back to England or Europe to drool in the museums and there are several pieces I would love to be able to study in more detail. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 11:10:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09722 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:10:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JEu7E01280; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JEu5s29215; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JEVus18490 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtXky3CwW4b+5kohjyP1Hwg="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G74BJ3HX; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:31:34 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Cley@juno.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Message-ID: <20020719.073047.-217645.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,5-6,13-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:15:42 +0000 Status: RO I took Home Ec in 7th grade here in Oregon. Learned how to sew a potholder and an apron. Most insufferably boring class I ever took! We girls didn't have the option of shop when I went to school--I went through about 3 years of hating the boys for it. It sounded much more interesting! My mother was an excellent seamstress, did beautiful tailoring and details (she had to keep up with this daughter of hers who was growing taller by the day and buying clothes was just too expensive), and it's stuff like that I would have liked to learn, stuff that required some theory and finesse. My Home Ec class seems to have been one of those "Went to the convention, and all I got was this stupid potholder" kind of things. Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 12:20:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09913 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:20:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JG6BE07932; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JG69s04925; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JFwXs00181 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17Va9G-0004C5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:58:30 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooray for mothers, was Re: shop and home economics X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.78 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:58:30 -0400 Status: RO > > > In fact, I have a diary entry handy from that day: > > > > "October 6, 1990- > > Dear Diary, > > We are going to a rennisonse (sic) fair 2 hours away. I can hardly wait > > to be couped up in a car for 2 hours, then get into some stuffy old > > outfit, then walk around in the burning hot sun in a long sleeved velvet > > dress, meant for winter. Oh Goody. Oh yeah, I don't have an ingrown > > toenail any more." > > > > Heheheheheh. Famous last words. :-) > > > > Sarah > > Sarah, that is the most typical 12 y.o. diary entry I've ever seen. I can > picture the look on your face, and the sarcasm dripping from you when I read > that! lolol!! > > btw, how's that toenail? Oh, the toenail problems are long gone, thankfully enough. Had surgery on both big toes to prevent them ever becomming ingrown again (I know, too much info) right about the time of that diary entry. As for the other things in that diary... Every single page ends with "How come I don't have a boyfriend and everyone else does?" LOL! I think my mom encouraged the historical costuming thing intitially because it got me to focus on something *other* than boys. Of course, the result is that now I have a house littered with fabric and unfinished costumes, where as I might have had a house littered with sexy men... Right? ;-) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 13:03:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10106 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:03:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JGjBE11643; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:45:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JGj9s25688; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:45:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JGYJs20137 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6JGYIJU010508 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:34:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sounds like the same pretentious B.S. that's infected the rest of the design world and graced us with $80 lemon juicers that don't work but make wonderful sculptures. Why do designers think we want things that don't work? I guess because if you can't sit on that uncomfortable but stylish couch it's a sign of snobbish good taste and conspicuous consumption. Ugh... And the rest of the word sanely ignores those high-fashion but useless designers and wears something practical instead. -- Mara On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 sustre@pixelations.com wrote: > That's really interesting to me, since I've tried and failed to get > my young-adult daughter interested in sewing- especially now that > she's thinking she'll be a fashion designer. It's rather discouraging > that if she ever finishes high school or gets a GED (she dropped out- > long story), the schools won't give her a reality check... She does > do nice, though very naive, sketches but has NO idea of what they'd > be made of or how they's go together- she feels that's appropriately > left to the peons. I'm sure you hear my eyes rolling! > > -Amanda > who needs to make an Art Nouveau gown sometime soonish > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 13:11:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10142 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:11:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JGrOE12417; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:53:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JGrNs29896; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:53:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JGPFs15253 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:25:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6JGPDJU009324 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020718140459.00d5cb40@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > All of us don't see how you separate them, but then, we aren't prepared > >to go spend money on more college to find out if they are teaching anything > >actually useful! > > Maybe that's why fashions are so funny-looking these days - because it was > designed by someone who couldn't sew! No kidding... How could they possibly expect the fashions to work (drape, flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about sewing and fabric? Or are they leaving that up to the seamstresses? Sheesh... -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 13:40:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10280 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:40:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JHPXE15475; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:25:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JHO7s16211; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JHCvs10305 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:12:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.16] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZI00GTHAHA2E@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:12:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 In-reply-to: X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Kevin & Mara Riley Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:12:54 -0400 Status: RO At 12:25 PM -0400 7/19/02, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: How could they possibly expect the fashions to work (drape, >flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about sewing and fabric? Or are >they leaving that up to the seamstresses? Sheesh... Yeah, sort of. I've worked with plenty of highly paid designers in a number theatres in this region. Some take an interest in what is sewn and know at least basic techniques, while others don't. Designers get their jobs by presenting to the artistic staff a concept. Usually in the form of rather abstract illustrations. They are encouraged to draw artistically by their teachers and that style is what sells. Once a design is accepted it is up to the drapers, and pattern makers to interpret the design. Then cutters cut the fabric. Sometimes this is the same person as the draper. Then the stitchers do their part. It is not much different in the fashion world. Linda K-S _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 14:18:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10590 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:18:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JI46E19210; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JI2es06532; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JHb8s23105 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:37:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.110] (as3-4-124.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.110]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6JHb6f24866 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020717114511.00c9dab0@mail.frys.com> <002001c22de2$2f5a48a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <003201c22e47$fd67f700$01fea8c0@vaio> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:35:50 -0700 Status: RO >Rowena: >> But what you are describing is the case here, too, for most places. A >>friend of mine is the designer for a lot of the JC Penny lines. Her boss >>and she had a few rough years when he kept adding the contracts, and then >>thought that instead of giving her a raise, he would just hire other people. >>Not one graduate could sew or make a mock-up pattern - and not one person >>they could find could. Anyone who can is getting paid some fairly high >>bucks down in NYC! >> She was appalled to learn that colleges are teaching about the same >>attitude - design is all, they can always hire some "sewing monkey" to make >>the patterns work and make a mock-up. \ >>Another friend has the same experience - she is running her own historical >>clothing business (FashionsinTime.com) and was told she didn't have enough >>experience to enroll in a Fashion program because she didn't have the art, >>specifically drawing, background. They didn't teach any sewing, and didn't >>count any designing/making experience, because the only programs involved >>Fashion. That reminds me of a musical parallel I encountered in college -- except they were actively trying to counteract the problem. One day in concert band rehearsal, we were introduced to a bunch of student from a composition (or maybe orchestration) class who had some scores for us to try out. Our job was to point out to them things like, "Um ... you _are_ aware that a flute can only play one note at a time?" Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 14:27:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10629 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:27:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JIBlE19943; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JI96s09800; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JHuQs03362 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:56:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.9.2b29b270 (3997) for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:56:15 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <9.2b29b270.2a69acbf@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9.2b29b270.2a69acbf_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:56:15 EDT Status: RO --part1_9.2b29b270.2a69acbf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 12:53:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: > No kidding... How could they possibly expect the fashions to work (drape, > flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about sewing and fabric? See....I have a problem with this kind of thinking. Designers.....good ones....do know something about drape and fabric. Just because they cannot make a garment does not make for bad design. Design is visual. Do you think all architects can build and plumb and wire up a sky scraper? You come up with a look....you hire an expert cutter/draper to make it work. And is it the designer's fault that people will buy things like pet rocks, kitchen witches, or skirts so tight they cannot be worn while going up stairs? And are skirts that tight MEANT for anything but the visuals? Seems to me there are always great looking and practical clothes. If it takes a great designer to do both, might not that make these fabulous but wearable outfits a bit rare? --part1_9.2b29b270.2a69acbf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 12:53:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes:


No kidding... How could they possibly expect the fashions to work (drape,
flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about sewing and fabric?


See....I have a problem with this kind of thinking. Designers.....good ones....do know something about drape and fabric. Just because they cannot make a garment does not make for bad design. Design is visual. Do you think all architects can build and plumb and wire up a sky scraper? You come up with a look....you hire an expert cutter/draper to make it work.

And is it the designer's fault that people will buy things like pet rocks, kitchen witches, or skirts so tight they cannot be worn while going up stairs? And are skirts that tight MEANT for anything but the visuals?

Seems to me there are always great looking and practical clothes. If it takes a great designer to do both, might not that make these fabulous but wearable outfits a bit rare? --part1_9.2b29b270.2a69acbf_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 14:44:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10730 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:44:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JITkE21452; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:29:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JIRUs18847; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JIDTs11996 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.110] (as3-4-124.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.110]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6JIDRf08267 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020719.073047.-217645.0.Cley@juno.com> References: <20020719.073047.-217645.0.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:56:40 -0700 Status: RO I did a year and a half of "home ec", which translated to a year's worth of sewing and half a year of cooking. I found the basic sewing projects insufferably dull, but there was scope for doing your own projects, so I survived. And both on the sewing and cooking sides, I benefited a bit by being forced to do a few projects "by the rules", rather than my usual make-it-up-as-I -go-along style (which is still my preferred approach). The only time I really grumped about the gender division of class opportunities was in kindergarten, when the boys got to make a wooden model plane and the girls didn't. By the time I got to jr. high and the potential for shop classes, I'd been using my dad's workshop at home and doing basic car maintenance as part of my family chores for years, and there didn't seem much point making a fuss. About the time I was in high school, they introduced the gender-neutral "bachelor survival" class, which I believe covered "life skills" such as budgeting in addition to basic cooking and sewing and whatnot. This was all going on in the early '70s in southern California. Even then, I always got the impression from my classmates that my mother's habit of home-sewing a lot of our clothes was "odd". Tossing in a more historic angle, one of the things my great-grandmother (from whom I get my middle name) recorded in her diary was every single sewing project she entered into. The numerically most common item were shirtwaists. (This was ca. 1900.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 14:50:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10748 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JIaHE22015; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JIY8s22131; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6JIFws13228 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:15:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Fri Jul 19 13:15:52 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:15:51 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6JIFws13228 Subject: [h-cost] New definition of Stash Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:15:46 -0500 Status: RO Of course, the result is that now I have a house littered with fabric and unfinished costumes, where as I might have had a house littered with sexy men... Right? ;-) Sarah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So all my piles of fabric should be sexy (insert gender of choice)???? Whooo boy, would my basement be a popular place! On the other hand, this explains why sometimes when I look at DH I see a pile of emerald green brocade :) :) :) :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 16:29:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11207 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:29:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JKBGE29626; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JKB5s08903; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JINQs16901 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:23:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ANGELA (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6JINPa420942 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:23:25 -0400 Message-ID: <012d01c22f51$9ec21090$9865fea9@ANGELA> From: "Angela F. Lazear- Cabbage Rose" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing - Fashion design v. art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:25:11 -0700 Status: RO That strikes me as bizarre. My youngest daughter wants to "follow in my footsteps" and design, and she can already draw, but, at 17, she does not yet sew (I know, I'm a baaaad mother). I've been assuming Fashion School would teach pattern drafting and draping NOT art. I guess I was completely incorrect about that. Most of her designs (I make them for her) are visually very appealing, but she often lacks an understanding of garment construction and it shows. We work together, so not an issue there, but I cannot imagine designing (and getting paid!) with a complete lack of the basics of fabrics & the way they fall. Bias is a big example of that. I made a dress for a show and cut the skirt on the bias in wool, to give that wonderful flow that only bias can give. I was working fast, so I didn't let it "grow" on the hanger for a day like you are supposed to, but knowing it would do its thing, I left it on the hanger for a few days, and allowed quite a bit of time for the hemming of it, as it became 3-4 inches longer all around. How could anyone without a knowledge of something so basic make good clothes, and that's just one example of what I'm sure are thousands. grrrrr angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Krecker-Schkred" To: Cc: "Kevin & Mara Riley" Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 > At 12:25 PM -0400 7/19/02, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > How could they possibly expect the fashions to work (drape, > >flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about sewing and fabric? Or are > >they leaving that up to the seamstresses? Sheesh... > > Yeah, sort of. I've worked with plenty of highly paid designers in a > number theatres in this region. Some take an interest in what is sewn > and know at least basic techniques, while others don't. Designers get > their jobs by presenting to the artistic staff a concept. Usually in > the form of rather abstract illustrations. They are encouraged to > draw artistically by their teachers and that style is what sells. > Once a design is accepted it is up to the drapers, and pattern makers > to interpret the design. Then cutters cut the fabric. Sometimes this > is the same person as the draper. Then the stitchers do their part. > > It is not much different in the fashion world. > > Linda K-S > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 16:41:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11296 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:41:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JKNDE00647; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:23:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JKNBs14736; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JKCRs09469 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:12:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6JKCPJU007230 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:12:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 In-Reply-To: <9.2b29b270.2a69acbf@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > See....I have a problem with this kind of thinking. Designers.....good > ones....do know something about drape and fabric. Just because they cannot > make a garment does not make for bad design. Design is visual. Do you think > all architects can build and plumb and wire up a sky scraper? You come up > with a look....you hire an expert cutter/draper to make it work. No, but I'd expect the architect to know that a building at least needed plumbing (what, you want RESTROOMS? I can't be bothered with such trivia), and to know what stresses the building materials he'd chosen could handle. > And is it the designer's fault that people will buy things like pet rocks, > kitchen witches, or skirts so tight they cannot be worn while going up > stairs? And are skirts that tight MEANT for anything but the visuals? :O They do???? > Seems to me there are always great looking and practical clothes. If it takes > a great designer to do both, might not that make these fabulous but wearable > outfits a bit rare? Of course. But if a bit more knowledge about how fabric really works were encouraged, maybe we'd get a few more good designers ;) -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 17:19:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11517 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:19:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JL0uE03831; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:00:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JL0ss04888; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx11.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx11.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.21]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JKWhs19701 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.101]) by mx11.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 45157260 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:32:39 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:32:44 -0400 Status: RO I had two half-years of "home ec," each having one quarter of sewing and one of cooking. They were horrid. I already knew how to sew and cook, and being required to shred one's pattern with one of those perfing wheels to mark darts, and call another person in one's team over from across the room rather than open the drawer one was standing in front of because it wasn't one's "role" to get the spoon that day, were both dreadful and typical examples. And the projects were inedible in cooking, and idiotic in sewing. And I didn't get along with the teachers. We girls weren't allowed to take shop (we weren't even allowed to enter those hallowed rooms!), but my sister, 3 years later, was. And did, and had a better time of it. -Amanda dating herself at 44 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 18:20:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12332 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:20:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JM6AE08668; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JM68s05619; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.48]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JLo3s28276 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.42.158]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020719214957.CTFR6994.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:49:57 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020719144237.00a36360@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <200207191747.g6JHlws28757@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Wedding dress of the Progressive/Aesthetic period Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:49:40 -0700 Status: RO I said I had lots of questions. Well, here's the first one, something that I've been trying to track down for over 20 years. I'm looking for a photo of a wedding dress I saw in a costume book many years ago. The dress (not the book) was from around 1880 or 1890, and was an example of an alternate style of design - one of the revisionist schools of design that kept appearing during the 19th century. I =think= it was called Progressive, but I'm not sure. It's been suggested that it might be Revisionist or Aesthetic style. The dress was very simple, loose and flowing from a rather boat-shaped gathered neckline, with bell-like sleeves. There was a definite Grecian suggestion in the overall design. There was a band of several rows of beadwork that circled the neckline, then at the back of the neck the beadwork turned and went down either side of the back closure, and at the waist turned towards the front and wrapped around somewhat like a medieval girdle (only much wider), to pull the dress in at the waist and provide some accent and contrast. There were matching rows of beadwork at the ends of the sleeves as well. Also maybe at the hem, but I'm not sure I remember seeing it in a book in the bookstore of the DeYoung Museum in San Francisco over 15-20 years ago. I did not buy the book and I've regretted it ever since. And no, I have absolutely no recollection of what that book was. If anyone recognizes this description and could help me track down a photo of this dress, or the book its in, or another source for the dress altogether, I'd be very grateful. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 19 19:42:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12889 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:42:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6JNS7E13274; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JNS5s07240; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmsoutbound.mx.net (cmsrelay02.mx.net [165.212.11.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6JNCDs01849 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:12:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uadvg133.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.133) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2002 23:12:13 -0000 Received: from uwdvg001.cms.usa.net [165.212.8.21] by uadvg133.cms.usa.net via mtad (CM.0402.2.02C) with ESMTP id 025ggsXmR0030M33; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 23:12:17 GMT Message-ID: <20020719231209.19676.qmail@uwdvg001.cms.usa.net> Received: from 206.163.135.19 [206.163.135.19] by uwdvg021.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.0402.1.07D); Fri, 19 Jul 2002 23:12:09 -0000 From: Shea Young To: Subject: Re: [Re: [[h-cost] Re: shop and home economics]] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.1.07D) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6JNCDs01849 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:12:09 -0700 Status: RO "Kate M Bunting" wrote: > What is pillow furniture? Sofa, love seat, and chair cushions made with tapestry fabric and usually stuffed with those tiny foam balls that didn't hold up very well. When the fad first started, the frame work was usually wooden 2" x 4"s that were crudely decorated and stained a dark color. Waterbeds came into fashion at the same time and often had the same kind of frame work - kind of rustic medieval. Another popular fad was Bean Bag chairs. Again, tapestry fabric cut in a slightly shaped pattern that looked like a huge, messy bean bag. It was filled with the foam balls and would form to your body when you sat down. You had to pick them up and give them a shake or two (like fluffing a pillow) before you sat down. I've seen a few still being sold, but in bright, loud colors and made from vinyl. Yech.... Shea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:22:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01118 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:22:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC87E22844; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC84G17357; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JKrHs00586 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:53:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11523 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:17:58 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooray for mothers, was Re: shop and home economics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:17:58 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Sarah Lorraine wrote: > I think my mom encouraged the historical costuming thing intitially > because it got me to focus on something *other* than boys. Of course, > the result is that now I have a house littered with fabric and > unfinished costumes, where as I might have had a house littered with > sexy men... Right? ;-) Trust me, fabric is better. Sexy men are high-maintenance. --no, not me, I'd never admit to writing that _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:22:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01122 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:22:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC84E22834; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC7xG17320; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx14.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx14.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.24]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JKkes26978 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.101]) by dc-mx14.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 71510561 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:47:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:46:38 -0400 Status: RO At 12:34 PM -0400 7/19/02, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: >Sounds like the same pretentious B.S. that's infected the rest of the >design world and graced us with $80 lemon juicers that don't work but make >wonderful sculptures. Why do designers think we want things that don't >work? I guess because if you can't sit on that uncomfortable but stylish >couch it's a sign of snobbish good taste and conspicuous consumption. > >Ugh... I quite agree! I recently took a jewelry class from someone who had great technique, but who was quite proud that her jewelry was difficult, painful, or impossible to wear. Seemed pretty odd to me; it looked nice, but if you can't wear it..! And several pieces *could* have been made comfy with a little thought. Maybe that's why I'm increasingly attracted to the Art Nouveau stuff- it's designed to be worn, not just looked at in a case, and is visually lush besides. I hate jewelry that makes me think about the fact that I'm wearing it! I like it comfortable and secure, so I know it won't break or fall off. -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:22:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01126 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:22:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC89E22853; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC88G17388; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40309.mail.yahoo.com (web40309.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6JL7os08456 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:07:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020719210745.27437.qmail@web40309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.1.8.215] by web40309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:07:45 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?marcus=20findlay-arthur?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] UK sewing together Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:07:45 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Oh folks if you do this would you please let me in? I'm going nuts in Birmingham.Haven't had the chance to hook up with similar minded folks since moving here nearly two years ago from the USA. Mostly my work schedule is to blame because its 24/7. Am like a dying man in the desert here! Marcus/Mangal __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:22:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01128 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:22:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC8EE22869; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC8DG17423; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JM4Us04909 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:04:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17VfrQ-000Dsx-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 23:04:29 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: different velvets References: <200207171927.g6HJR9N03592@net.indra.com> <1F355057170@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <1F355057170@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:47:34 +0100 Status: RO I think it's supposed to be gold? Dark, slightly mustardy yellow that can easily get a nasty green tinge. I got two sets, one that was cotton and was OK, a bit more brown-y, and one that was obviously synthetic and really euch! Jean Teddy wrote > >> Quick and dirty version - another bit of velvet, especially that >> disgusting yellow shade of curtains you find in charity shops! > >Nice tip, but *what* shade of yellow would that be? > >Teddy >(who likes yellow and has made use of lots of differnet shades of >secondhand velvet curtains) >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:22:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01134 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:22:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC8SE22925; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC8QG17516; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JIR4s18686 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZI00CZDDX2MR@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:27:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport book opinions? In-reply-to: <3D37EF5F.2030608@attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020719111007.00c59100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020717195427.00cae5c0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020718141711.00c9fb10@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:19:46 -0700 Status: RO >Could someone please give me the full title of the Davenport book. I've >never have heard of it and am eager to take a look at it. Thank you. 'The Book of Costume', by Millia Davenport, originally Crown Publishers, 1948. Mine has no ISBN because they hadn't been invented yet, but has no Library of Congress number either. There are two-volume editions, one-volume editions like mine, and recent reprint editions like from 10 years ago. Mine has no colour plates. I saw one that had them (4 plates with bad colour printing) and now I don't miss them in mine. Large libraries may have a copy in their reference section. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:22:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01138 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:22:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC8IE22883; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC8GG17443; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:08:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JM4Zs04931 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17VfrV-000Dsy-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 23:04:34 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing - Fashion design v. art References: <012d01c22f51$9ec21090$9865fea9@ANGELA> In-Reply-To: <012d01c22f51$9ec21090$9865fea9@ANGELA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:56:44 +0100 Status: RO Sounds very familiar to my husband's experiences with theatre set designers. He builds for a few amateur companies, and they tend to employ young, supposedly professional designers. Many of them turn up weeks late, with drawings that aren't properly scaled, and absolutely no concept of how much time or money it will take to construct them. I was interested to see a documentary the other night about the production of a new musical in London, and the designers really knew their deadlines and appreciated the practical side of things. Maybe it's like I often find at work - there is a certain level people rise to by talking a good line and making the appearances, but they never reach the really senior levels. Senior managers are much more down to earth and have a depth of knowledge in what they're dealing with. Jean Angela F. Lazear- Cabbage Rose wrote >That strikes me as bizarre. My youngest daughter wants to "follow in my >footsteps" and design, and she can already draw, but, at 17, she does not >yet sew (I know, I'm a baaaad mother). I've been assuming Fashion School >would teach pattern drafting and draping NOT art. I guess I was completely >incorrect about that. > >Most of her designs (I make them for her) are visually very appealing, but >she often lacks an understanding of garment construction and it shows. We >work together, so not an issue there, but I cannot imagine designing (and >getting paid!) with a complete lack of the basics of fabrics & the way they >fall. Bias is a big example of that. I made a dress for a show and cut the >skirt on the bias in wool, to give that wonderful flow that only bias can >give. I was working fast, so I didn't let it "grow" on the hanger for a day >like you are supposed to, but knowing it would do its thing, I left it on >the hanger for a few days, and allowed quite a bit of time for the hemming >of it, as it became 3-4 inches longer all around. How could anyone without a >knowledge of something so basic make good clothes, and that's just one >example of what I'm sure are thousands. > >grrrrr > >angela > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Linda Krecker-Schkred" >To: >Cc: "Kevin & Mara Riley" >Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:12 AM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 > > >> At 12:25 PM -0400 7/19/02, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: >> How could they possibly expect the fashions to work (drape, >> >flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about sewing and fabric? Or are >> >they leaving that up to the seamstresses? Sheesh... >> >> Yeah, sort of. I've worked with plenty of highly paid designers in a >> number theatres in this region. Some take an interest in what is sewn >> and know at least basic techniques, while others don't. Designers get >> their jobs by presenting to the artistic staff a concept. Usually in >> the form of rather abstract illustrations. They are encouraged to >> draw artistically by their teachers and that style is what sells. >> Once a design is accepted it is up to the drapers, and pattern makers >> to interpret the design. Then cutters cut the fabric. Sometimes this >> is the same person as the draper. Then the stitchers do their part. >> >> It is not much different in the fashion world. >> >> Linda K-S >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:22:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01142 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:22:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC7IE22796; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC7BG17216; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:07:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JKXws20302 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:33:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17VeRn-0008no-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:33:56 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? References: <200207181432.g6IEWhN04535@net.indra.com> <1F7B5F2675A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <1F7B5F2675A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:38:18 +0100 Status: RO Teddy wrote > >Hi Saragrace, >> Just curious-(I am in the US). How far do you have to travel to >> collect as a group? The reason I ask is, we do the same thing in >> Arizona, not just for sewing costumes, but for soft sculpture, and >> spinning. Some of us travel as much as 90 miles each way in a >> single day! A good way to attract a few folks is to offer simple >> classes taught by one of you. For instance, have someone teach how >> to make split drawers, or each of you pick a simple period hat to >> teach. We also get together to go shopping at favorite fabric or >> bead stores. Sometimes you will have lots, sometimes only a few. >> The camaraderie is great. It may sound 'old fashioned' but I think >> women have lost a lot of their opportunities to "klatch" when they >> industrialized soap, sugar, quilting manufacture. They will come!! >> Wish I could come that far-I would!! > >Over here, there are few that would even *consider* travelling that >far for a one day event.... some not even for a weekend event.... let >alone for a "sewing circle". > >Costume Guild UK has trouble getting significant numbers people >together in one place (even though it's open to non costume guild >members) to work on costumes/sewing etc for a day event even >when there are displays or workshops offered to "sweeten the pot," >and a nice big hall so big things can be layed out and there would >be other people around to help/advise/share experience etc. > >When I first visited the US it amazed me how great a distance was >referred to as "local". > >And, yes, this is a generalisation - some people over here *would* >travel long distances and not be put off by them, and not everybody >I encountered in the US thought little of travelling the distances I >considered vast to get to events or simply to commute to and from >work each day. > > >Teddy I would be delighted to go 90 miles for a weekend event. Probably not for a day. But unfortunately we're talking minimum 300 for me to the Midlands, and by the time I've done that 6 or 7 times for events over the summer, I really can't face it any more. Spend the summer travelling and putting out for the tourists, then hibernate and nest through the winter! By the way, when we first thought of forming an SCA group in Scotland, the admin in the US suggested we just join our"local" group in south-east England. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:23:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01146 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:23:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC9LE23015; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC9KG17729; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JIbFs23767 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.110] (as3-4-124.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.110]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6JIbDf07250 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9.2b29b270.2a69acbf@aol.com> References: <9.2b29b270.2a69acbf@aol.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:36:36 -0700 Status: RO At 1:56 PM -0400 7/19/02, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/19/2002 12:53:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >lindo@Radix.Net writes: > >>No kidding... How could they possibly expect the fashions to work (drape, >>flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about sewing and fabric? >> > > >See....I have a problem with this kind of thinking. >Designers.....good ones....do know something about drape and fabric. >Just because they cannot make a garment does not make for bad >design. Design is visual. Do you think all architects can build and >plumb and wire up a sky scraper? You come up with a look....you hire >an expert cutter/draper to make it work. But architects _are_ expected to have some notion of what the available materials are capable of, and how they will behave under the required conditions. Architecture is not about creating a visual "look" off the top of your head and then assuming the steelworkers and masons and carpenters will "make it work". Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:25:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01160 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:25:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC9TE23051; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC9SG17776; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JIgAs26002 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZI008AZEM92H@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:42:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport book opinions? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020719113236.00cb0300@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3D37EF5F.2030608@attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:42:03 -0700 Status: RO > > Could someone please give me the full title of the Davenport book. I've > > never have heard of it and am eager to take a look at it. Thank you. > >The Book of Costume, by Millia Davenport. I just went to abebooks.com, and found 42 copies listed (including one for half of the two-volume set) at prices ranging from $24 to $320. The two volumes split the 1500s, with Germany, England, and Spain in Vol. I, and France and Italy in Vol. II. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:25:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01165 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:25:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC9IE23004; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC9HG17703; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JIRns19005 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ANGELA (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6JIRma125304 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:27:48 -0400 Message-ID: <013c01c22f52$3bb24dc0$9865fea9@ANGELA> From: "Angela F. Lazear- Cabbage Rose" To: References: <9.2b29b270.2a69acbf@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0139_01C22F17.8EF63A90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:29:34 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0139_01C22F17.8EF63A90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Albert, I don't think that artistic vision is unimportant. I think it is = paramount, and I imagine that some who cannot sew can certainly design. = Maybe many. What got me excited with this thread is that to teach = design without basic sewing seems to me to be like teaching painting = without a knowledge of brushes & paint. Why would you even go there? = The more you know, the better you are as a designer. =20 I get your point though. My favorite director does not know anything = about fabrics or sewing, but his vision is amazing and he can describe = things to me and I build them. So I lend him the portions he's = unfamiliar with. But if he learned what I know about fabrics & = construction, he'd be better than I am. That s my point, for what it's = worth. angela ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AlbertCat@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 In a message dated 7/19/2002 12:53:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = lindo@Radix.Net writes:=20 No kidding... How could they possibly expect the fashions to work = (drape,=20 flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about sewing and fabric?=20 See....I have a problem with this kind of thinking. Designers.....good = ones....do know something about drape and fabric. Just because they = cannot make a garment does not make for bad design. Design is visual. Do = you think all architects can build and plumb and wire up a sky scraper? = You come up with a look....you hire an expert cutter/draper to make it = work.=20 And is it the designer's fault that people will buy things like pet = rocks, kitchen witches, or skirts so tight they cannot be worn while = going up stairs? And are skirts that tight MEANT for anything but the = visuals?=20 Seems to me there are always great looking and practical clothes. If = it takes a great designer to do both, might not that make these fabulous = but wearable outfits a bit rare?=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0139_01C22F17.8EF63A90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Albert, I don't think that artistic = vision is=20 unimportant. I think it is paramount, and I imagine that some who cannot = sew can=20 certainly design.  Maybe many.  What got me excited with this=20 thread is that to teach design without basic sewing seems to me to = be like=20 teaching painting without a knowledge of brushes & paint.  Why = would=20 you even go there?  The more you know, the better you are as a=20 designer. 
 
I get your point though.  My = favorite director=20 does not know anything about fabrics or sewing, but his vision is = amazing and he=20 can describe things to me and I build them.  So I lend him the portions he's = unfamiliar=20 with.  But if he learned what I know about fabrics & = construction, he'd=20 be better than I am. That s my point, for what it's = worth.
 
angela
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 AlbertCat@aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 = 10:56=20 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, = England vs=20 US 2

In a = message dated=20 7/19/2002 12:53:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: =


No kidding... How could they possibly expect the = fashions to=20 work (drape,
flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about = sewing and=20 fabric?

See....I have a problem = with this kind=20 of thinking. Designers.....good ones....do know something about drape = and=20 fabric. Just because they cannot make a garment does not make for bad = design.=20 Design is visual. Do you think all architects can build and plumb and = wire up=20 a sky scraper? You come up with a look....you hire an expert = cutter/draper to=20 make it work.

And is it the designer's fault that people will = buy=20 things like pet rocks, kitchen witches, or skirts so tight they cannot = be worn=20 while going up stairs? And are skirts that tight MEANT for anything = but the=20 visuals?

Seems to me there are always great looking and = practical=20 clothes. If it takes a great designer to do both, might not that make = these=20 fabulous but wearable outfits a bit rare?=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0139_01C22F17.8EF63A90-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:26:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01171 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:26:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC9nE23120; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC9lG17918; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JNtAs15462 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p666-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.158] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17VhaV-00072s-00; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:55:07 +1200 Message-ID: <005401c22f7f$b47b5990$9ec2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020717195427.00cae5c0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020718141711.00c9fb10@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Davenport book opinions? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:55:04 +1200 Status: RO > > OT one H, I'd say it is the best two-volume costume library anywhere. It > has over 2000 illustrations, from Sumeria and ancient Egypt to about 1867, > usually sorted by country. There's > even a bit on what shape of costume was worn in what part of Germany in the > early 1500s. Not to mention an extant(? pretty sure it wasn't a reproduction) Spanish Court gown for the early 17thC with cutting diagram. Unfortunately I have been unable tolacte the Museum, it may have changed names or the items moved to other museums. > OT other H, printing technology wasn't nearly as good when the book was > originally published (1948), and the picture quality, how shall I say this > politely, sucks. This is somewhat offset by the fact that I have never > seen some of these examples anywhere else. But the pictures are not as > sharp and clear as we have come to expect from modern technology. True... it really is a pain especially when you can't find any other copies of those images. I would certainly recommend it too. The amount of informative text surely does make up for the poor picture quality. I would hope that if it was ever reprnted they could find a better way to print the images.. however Blanch Payne's book didn't fair better when reprinted. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:26:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01177 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LC9rE23129; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC9oG17937; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JNxqs16980 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:59:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip184.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.184]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g6JNxnV3018658 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200207192359.g6JNxnV3018658@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] Advice needed -- White Model 1409 at JoAnn's Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:00:13 -0400 Status: RO Ok, folks, This evening I ventured into the local JoAnn Fabrics, because I actually needed some cotton calico , and noticed that they had the White model 1409 sewing machine as a special purchase, available for $99 through tomorrow (7/20). So I bought one. It's supposed to be heavy-duty and to be able to handle six to eight layers of denim at one time, which I figure means I could, conceivably, sew canvas for sails and tents on it. Was this a good buy? I still have my receipt and could return it if these things are duds. Thanks, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:31:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01235 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:31:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCADE23152; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:12:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCA0G18020; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6K1mms15502 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:48:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.ae.2a3d1f0c (3999) for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:48:36 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing - Fashion design v. art To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ae.2a3d1f0c.2a6a1b74_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:48:36 EDT Status: RO --part1_ae.2a3d1f0c.2a6a1b74_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 4:12:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes: > so I didn't let it "grow" on the hanger for a day > like you are supposed to, but knowing it would do its thing, I left it on > the hanger for a few days, and allowed quite a bit of time for the hemming > of it, as it became 3-4 inches longer all around. How could anyone without a > knowledge of something so basic make good clothes The people who make it should indeed know this, but why does the designer need to know anything but where he wants the final hem? I know a few costume designers who's knowledge of construction actually hinders their designs They come up with very makable but very boring designs. --part1_ae.2a3d1f0c.2a6a1b74_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 4:12:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes:


so I didn't let it "grow" on the hanger for a day
like you are supposed to, but knowing it would do its thing, I left it on
the hanger for a few days, and allowed quite a bit of time for the hemming
of it, as it became 3-4 inches longer all around. How could anyone without a
knowledge of something so basic make good clothes


The people who make it should indeed know this, but why does the designer need to know anything but where he wants the final hem?

I know a few costume designers who's knowledge of construction actually hinders their designs They come up with very makable but very boring designs. --part1_ae.2a3d1f0c.2a6a1b74_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:32:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01246 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:32:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCAAE23148; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LC9qG17953; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:09:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6JNxvs17019 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:59:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.215]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZI00J6STBV9X@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:59:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020719165810.00a61680@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] purse with 'sequence' on e-bay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:59:52 -0700 Status: RO Actually the purse said 'beaded and sequence'. Turned out to be 'sequins' they meant it had. So I stomped around, fuming about the state of modern education, had dinner, and now I feel better. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:38:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01299 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:38:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCOmE23502; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCOjG20402; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:24:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6K1qNs16336 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:52:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.1a1.58302ac (3999) for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:52:12 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a1.58302ac.2a6a1c4b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a1.58302ac.2a6a1c4b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:52:11 EDT Status: RO --part1_1a1.58302ac.2a6a1c4b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 4:23:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: > Of course. But if a bit more knowledge about how fabric really works were > encouraged, maybe we'd get a few more good designers ;) > Oh I agree. But there will always be more bad designers than good ones....and I think the good ones know a lot about their whole industry. --part1_1a1.58302ac.2a6a1c4b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 4:23:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes:


Of course.  But if a bit more knowledge about how fabric really works were
encouraged, maybe we'd get a few more good designers ;)


Oh I agree. But there will always be more bad designers than good ones....and I think the good ones know a lot about their whole industry. --part1_1a1.58302ac.2a6a1c4b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01326 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCQdE23714; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPjG20809; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KECPs14526 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:12:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.52.145.236.dlls.grid.net ([63.52.145.236] helo=earthlink.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Vuy7-0000we-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:12:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3D39706B.20006@earthlink.net> From: Magdalena User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath References: <001401c22e66$b74e5060$6501a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:15:07 -0500 Status: RO Saragrace knauf wrote: >Oh, one more thing-if you can't go there to look more closely at it, >would the embroidery motifs in QEWU in crimson work? There are bugs, >monsters, snails, birds etc. Not an exact replica I know.... > Actually, most of those motifs are from a redworked smock in the V&A. Some of them come out of Schorleyker's _A Schole-house for the Needle_. For a diagram of the smock, and a closeup view of seam construction and such try Hart & North _Fashion in Detail_. There are a number of other sources which feature shots from it too. One of my many, many under construction pages: http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/redworksmockimages.html -Magdalena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01332 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCPcE23606; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPPG20653; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6K7N1s28124 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 01:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A064C101D0; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 02:25:24 -0500 Message-ID: <00c801c22fbe$51c2ae40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Designers know it all Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 03:23:17 -0400 Status: RO One thing most people don't think of is that most successful designers are really good business men or women. Successful designers may draw the designs but have patternmakers, cutters, stitchers, and drapers to take care of other aspects of the business. There are a lot of good designers who did not make it big as a business because they didn't know how to run a business. Most design schools do not teach their design students how to run a business. When I was taking a tech writing class, I was told that when you write to a business executive to not include all the technical details as to how something was made, except if it was asked. Most executives are not interested in that information, have the time, or do not have a lot of knowledge of the technical aspects of their products. Gosh, if someone wrote me asking me technical aspects of a class being taught, I would direct them to the instructor. I know the basics of what is being taught but I don't know about every single thing that is being taught in a class. My brain can only hold so much information. An executive is good at knowing an overview of what everyone is doing. Their concern is with running the business. I deal more with managing people, marketing, accounting, talking with students, and hiring reputable people. Do I know how to make an Elizabethan ruff, a sackback gown, or the costume history found in medieval grave sites... no way! But I do know people who do know how to do these things very well. Another example... I am making a 1920s gown. I purchased a graded pattern and made my mock-up. I ran into some major problems with the fit. The pattern needed to be re-drafted. I drove to DC and had someone re-draft the pattern. When she was re-drafting it, she tried to explain to me how to do the math re-draft. I said, "It is time for me to take a break and let you do your job." I just don't have time to learn something new at this moment. If I had a full day, then maybe I could learn it... but geometry isn't my cup of tea. So I found someone who it was their cup of tea. When I was doing my internship in a museum, I would hold up a garment and ask the curator what did a garment's date. The curator didn't know and said we would look it up. She informed me that she didn't know every time period's costumes off the cuff. Most curators don't... as I learned later. But she knew where to research it. We each have our own little area of special interest in costume that we are really good with. But I doubt we could find one person that knows everything. I bet Dior didn't spend a lot of time behind a sewing machine. He was out marketing his business. One big contraversary with film costume designers is where is credit due.... some past designers only designed the leading actresses costumes and took the Oscar for designing all the film's costumes. I believe Edith Head was one of the big designers who did this. There were other designers working on the show, that designed the men and/or women's costumes but didn't receive an Oscar. Something to think about. If you read history of the major fashion designers you will see that the next generation of designers worked under them. What is important is who did they do their internship or apprenticeship with. Calvin Klien is a great example of this. He was an asst. designer for Dan Millstein in 1962. For many years he worked for coat manufacturers. The 1970s was when his name started appearing on his designs. Donna Karan started out working for Anne Klein. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01331 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCPWE23595; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPJG20598; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6K649s12903 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 00:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ADEAD201A8; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 01:06:34 -0500 Message-ID: <006001c22fb3$4e408d60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020719.073047.-217645.0.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 02:04:27 -0400 Status: RO Did anyone make something in home ec that they could wear? In my first class we made a jumper. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01338 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCQSE23701; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:26:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPuG20910; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KGKBG10457 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:20:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.92.290ea0a7 (4470) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:19:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <92.290ea0a7.2a6ae7a9@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_92.290ea0a7.2a6ae7a9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: You live in Boston? (WAS:Re: shop and home economics) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:19:53 EDT Status: RO --part1_92.290ea0a7.2a6ae7a9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Hey! So do I! We've probably met at an SCA event, then... If you have one, send me a pic or link me to one so I can put a face to the name. And since this is my first year here in MA, I'm sure you must know all the best fabric stops... So funny I never realized a Carolingian admin'd this list! --Gillian Tedcastle --part1_92.290ea0a7.2a6ae7a9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<I'm blessed to live in Boston, home of many good fabric stores, and I
buy from SCA merchants (many have very little markup since they have
low overhead).

                        ...eliz>>

Hey!  So do I!  We've probably met at an SCA event, then...  If you have one, send me a pic or link me to one so I can put a face to the name.  And since this is my first year here in MA, I'm sure you must know all the best fabric stops... 

So funny I never realized a Carolingian admin'd this list!

--Gillian Tedcastle --part1_92.290ea0a7.2a6ae7a9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01342 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCPoE23638; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPaG20727; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KDj3s09272 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.e6.2b3ea3b7 (4470) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:44:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e6.2b3ea3b7.2a6ac353_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: synthetic lavender brocade Italian? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:44:51 EDT Status: RO --part1_e6.2b3ea3b7.2a6ac353_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I'd love to check it out. I do wear synthetic, but mostly I just wanna see your work, Diane. What's the link? --Gillian <<[snippage] But I did finish my lavender brocade Italian!! I put it up on eBay though--it's beautiful. but it's synthetic, and I just don't want to wear it now. You all have infected me!>> ] --part1_e6.2b3ea3b7.2a6ac353_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I'd love to check it out.  I do wear synthetic, but mostly I just wanna see your work, Diane.  What's the link?

--Gillian

<<[snippage] But I did finish my lavender brocade Italian!! I put it up on eBay
though--it's beautiful. but it's synthetic, and I just don't want to wear it
now. You all have infected me!>>


] --part1_e6.2b3ea3b7.2a6ac353_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01346 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCPSE23585; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPMG20626; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (mta7-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.47]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6K64cs13015 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 00:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from db-books ([62.252.100.3]) by mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020720060437.HAPD22234.mta7-svc.business.ntl.com@db-books> for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:04:37 +0100 Message-ID: <003501c22ee9$fe2b3f60$15e8fc3e@db-books> From: "david.batterham" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Subject: [h-cost] Fashion Magazines Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:02:50 +0100 Status: RO I am a bookseller specialising in fashion magazines l800-l970 (mostly French). Anyone interested in receiving occasional catalogues please let me know or check out current stock on Abebooks.Com>STORES>Batterham>Browse>catalog>fashion _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01350 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCQME23695; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPhG20793; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KE6Ms13420 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:06:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.52.145.236.dlls.grid.net ([63.52.145.236] helo=earthlink.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VusG-0005Zu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:06:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3D396F01.3030907@earthlink.net> From: Magdalena User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath-length question References: <20020718150116.74219.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:09:05 -0500 Status: RO ~242 cm long and ~100 cm around, according to my ruler and Arnold's scale. After I made him a shirt to that length, my sweetie refused to wear any of his other shirts. It seems like a lot, but they stay in your pants that way. Rachel wrote: >It is a little difficult to ascertain the exact dimensions from that photograph. It does make on >wonder whether this is a mans shirt or a womans. It is a better length for a womans shirt and >there is not a great deal of difference in the patterns used. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01354 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCQDE23678; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPmG20837; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KF19s24123 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.ce.29a6b64d (4470) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:00:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ce.29a6b64d.2a6ad529_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Sewing, England vs US, --includes a seamstress tip Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:00:57 EDT Status: RO --part1_ce.29a6b64d.2a6ad529_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Linda wrote: <> Yeah, and let me just say that as a Writing Major I hated that lil memorization trick. I used to point out that it was "only 1 R, 1 W and an A" and that we are confusing kids who are just learning to spell. (I suppose this is especially a pet peeve because I am dyslexic. Yeah, a dyslexic Writing Major -- on the Honor Roll no less. I wanted a challenge...) <> Funny you should ask that, because I have recently been surprised at some local "experts" in my SCA barony that can tell you every stitch technique used on a 16th Century doublet or dress, but either don't sew at all or do but would not be classified beyond beginner skill level. (Mind you, there ARE exceptions to this in Carolingia. We do have some excellent clothiers but this post is about the costume historians who don't sew.) I can't understand how these experts can name and diagram a stitch and yet not be able to sew it. And how can one fully appreciate the drape and usefulness of a stitching technique without experience? They do it, though. I consulted some of these costume historians on my latest dress, and although they told me they could never make what I wanted, their advice was right on the money. Perhaps, then, it's a matter of manual dexterity versus IQ? They are certainly smart enough and have put the time into doing the research, but maybe there is as much physical skill as brainpower in the handling of a fabric and thread... << How did you all manage to do it ?>> For some patterns, I've relied on research done by others -- people in my barony, Janet Arnold, so many folks on this list. Simplicity's 8881 taught me cartridge pleating in an easily understood format, and I still use that farthingale pattern changed to a drawstring waist. The rest I construct from studies of portraiture compared to my knowledge as a seamstress. I mentally deconstruct the gowns in the pictures, then sketch out my rough ideas on paper as if I were checking a math equation. Often, this is good enough for sleeves or skirts, and no toile/muslin is necessary. (I suppose a clothing historian would stop there, then?) For fitted items like bodices, I then test my theory in cheap fabric. TIP: Water soluble thread is available at Wal-Mart, Clotilde.com, and many quilter supply shops. Use this to baste your toile -- either by machine or by hand. Then, all you have to do is throw it into a warm sink or washer and all the pieces come apart with no annoying seam ripping! It's important, though, to have preshrunk your toile fabric so that the warm water does not shrink your pattern after the fitting. (I wish I'd gone to the store for more soluble thread before basting the nightshirt I'm working on. I forgot just how long seam ripping takes. Not going out was just laziness, and now I'm stuck doing more work as a result.) Anyway, the rest is trial and error. --Gillian --part1_ce.29a6b64d.2a6ad529_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Linda wrote:

<<My sister is a teacher of ten-to-eleven-year-olds, and - as far as I can
tell - the pressure is all on learning "the three R's".  >>

Yeah, and let me just say that as a Writing Major I hated that lil memorization trick.  I used to point out that it was "only 1 R, 1 W and an A" and that we are confusing kids who are just learning to spell.  (I suppose this is especially a pet peeve because I am dyslexic.  Yeah, a dyslexic Writing Major -- on the Honor Roll no less.  I wanted a challenge...)

   <<I regret that her pupils will never
   enjoy sitting and sewing, (nor going for nature walks), as we did.  And how
will they make the leap into understanding the construction of early
clothing ? >>

Funny you should ask that, because I have recently been surprised at some local "experts" in my SCA barony that can tell you every stitch technique used on a 16th Century doublet or dress, but either don't sew at all or do but would not be classified beyond beginner skill level.  (Mind you, there ARE exceptions to this in Carolingia.  We do have some excellent clothiers but this post is about the costume historians who don't sew.)  I can't understand how these experts can name and diagram a stitch and yet not be able to sew it.  And how can one fully appreciate the drape and usefulness of a stitching technique without experience? 

They do it, though.  I consulted some of these costume historians on my latest dress, and although they told me they could never make what I wanted, their advice was right on the money.  Perhaps, then, it's a matter of manual dexterity versus IQ?  They are certainly smart enough and have put the time into doing the research, but maybe there is as much physical skill as brainpower in the handling of a fabric and thread...

<< How did you all manage to do it ?>>

For some patterns, I've relied on research done by others -- people in my barony, Janet Arnold, so many folks on this list.  Simplicity's 8881 taught me cartridge pleating in an easily understood format, and I still use that farthingale pattern changed to a drawstring waist.  The rest I construct from studies of portraiture compared to my knowledge as a seamstress.  I mentally deconstruct the gowns in the pictures, then sketch out my rough ideas on paper as if I were checking a math equation.  Often, this is good enough for sleeves or skirts, and no toile/muslin is necessary.  (I suppose a clothing historian would stop there, then?)  For fitted items like bodices, I then test my theory in cheap fabric. 

TIP: Water soluble thread is available at Wal-Mart, Clotilde.com, and many quilter supply shops.  Use this to baste your toile -- either by machine or by hand.  Then, all you have to do is throw it into a warm sink or washer and all the pieces come apart with no annoying seam ripping!  It's important, though, to have preshrunk your toile fabric so that the warm water does not shrink your pattern after the fitting.  (I wish I'd gone to the store for more soluble thread before basting the nightshirt I'm working on.  I forgot just how long seam ripping takes.  Not going out was just laziness, and now I'm stuck doing more work as a result.)

Anyway, the rest is trial and error.

--Gillian


 --part1_ce.29a6b64d.2a6ad529_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01356 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCQgE23718; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPfG20768; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KDvrs11781 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:57:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.165.1076ff8a (4470) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:57:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <165.1076ff8a.2a6ac64c@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_165.1076ff8a.2a6ac64c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: TouchySew story (WAS:Sewing, England vs US) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:57:32 EDT Status: RO --part1_165.1076ff8a.2a6ac64c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<...TouchySew ... [snip] . I used it for years and would probably still have it except that was what my ex-husband was using to bash open a trunk when the SWAT team came to take him out of the house he was trashing. (I had been divorced from him for 2 1/2 years at that time.) Fortunately, he thought the brand new Pfaff was my roommates or he would have destroyed it too. Instead he just pulled over the bookshelf it was on.>> SWAT team?!! Oh my... Even all my screwed up ex's never brought the SWAT. Campus Security ... yes. Paddy wagons, yes. Police, yeah. Kat, he musta been a handful! Really glad you're not still with him, for your safety. --Gillian --part1_165.1076ff8a.2a6ac64c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<<...TouchySew ... [snip] . I used it for years and
would probably still have it except that was what my ex-husband
was using to bash open a trunk when the SWAT team came to
take him out of the house he was trashing. (I had been divorced
from him for 2 1/2 years at that time.)  Fortunately, he thought the
brand new Pfaff was my roommates or he would have destroyed it
too. Instead he just pulled over the bookshelf it was on.>>


SWAT team?!!   Oh my...  Even all my screwed up ex's never brought the SWAT.  Campus Security ... yes.  Paddy wagons, yes.  Police, yeah.  Kat, he musta been a handful!  Really glad you're not still with him, for your safety.

--Gillian --part1_165.1076ff8a.2a6ac64c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01363 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCQlE23731; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPpG20859; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KF7Xs25438 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:07:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.15e.10f03296 (4470) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:05:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <15e.10f03296.2a6ad656@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_15e.10f03296.2a6ad656_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Burda Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:05:58 EDT Status: RO --part1_15e.10f03296.2a6ad656_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Well, "no petite sizes" knocks me off the customer list. --Gillian --part1_15e.10f03296.2a6ad656_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<If you have never
seen Burda magazine you should try it!!! >>

Well, "no petite sizes" knocks me off the customer list.

--Gillian --part1_15e.10f03296.2a6ad656_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01364 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCQQE23699; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPcG20750; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KDu6s11367 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.52.145.236.dlls.grid.net ([63.52.145.236] helo=earthlink.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17VuiE-00034t-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 06:55:58 -0700 Message-ID: <3D396C91.3080605@earthlink.net> From: Magdalena User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Arnold articles:Was: Blackwork. . . . . References: <000001c22e87$645bddc0$6501a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:58:41 -0500 Status: RO Saragrace knauf wrote: >I've heard some of you refer to these articles which Arnold wrote off >and on-where did you obtain your copies? I have all of her books, I >think, did she later publish/incorporate the articles in those? > >I see on one website one of you referred me to that one of them was in: >Arnold, Janet (1977). "Elizabethan and Jacobean smocks and shirts". >Waffen-und Kostumkunde; Zeitschrift der Gessellschadt fur Historiche >Waffen -und Kostumkunde (Vol 19, Issue 2). I assume the article is in >German here-that shouldn't be a problem for me as I can speak it fairly >well, but what about others? > Saragrace, Arnold did incorporate some or all of the information from many of her articles in Patterns of Fashion. I haven't looked at it in a bit, but my recollection is that her article on the Sture outfits has more detail (though not a lot) than the same section of PoF. Rumor has it that she had a book in the works covering shirts and smocks, and that it will be posthumously published, but I haven't seen any details on it yet. The shirt article mentioned above is, though published in a German journal, written in English. (If the title is in English, the article is frequently also in English even if the journal isn't.) -Magdalena whose obsession is 16th century shirts... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:41:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01370 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:41:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCQPE23698; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPUG20682; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10308.mail.yahoo.com (web10308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6KA7us26415 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 04:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020720100755.24354.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.7.158.67] by web10308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:07:55 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207191748.g6JHm6s28863@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2142828802-1027159675=:23191" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1081 - 16 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:07:55 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-2142828802-1027159675=:23191 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Whereabouts in Yorkshire? (I'm not a memeber of the Guild, but I am in West Yorks.) Debbie. Message: 6 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:13:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com Organization: Middlesex University Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > I'm also a member of the Costume Guild, but everything they do seems > to be down south. Costume Closet and Wardrobe will be in Warwick. Several of their predecessors (Masque: The British Costume Convention) have been in the Birmingham area and one in Nottingham > Teddy, do you know of any people up here, in Yorkshire sort of > area? Hmmm... not specifically Yorkshire, I don't think... and my Geography is dire, but Derby's a lot closer to you than London, and Maggie and Mike Percival (former zine editor and Chairman of CGUK) are both based just outside Derby. There are other northerners on h-costume too but with y geographical inaccuracy i'd hesitate to say how close any of them might be to you.... > I have been fascinated by costuming for ages, but have never made > anything except my wedding dress as I would never get to wear it - > good old Yorkshire thriftiness prevents me making anything with > _no_ end use in mind. Then you need to find some events you can get to. > (Apart from my wedding dress, and knowing what I know now, I > desperately want to take it apart and remake the bodice, with a corset > etc to go with, but see above as to why I haven't). Do you ever get down south? Teddy --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-2142828802-1027159675=:23191 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 Whereabouts in Yorkshire?  (I'm not a memeber of the Guild, but I am in West Yorks.)

Debbie.



Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:13:44 +0000 (GMT)
From: Teddy
Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle?
To: h-costume@indra.com
Organization: Middlesex University
Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com


> I'm also a member of the Costume Guild, but everything they do seems
> to be down south.

Costume Closet and Wardrobe will be in Warwick. Several of their
predecessors (Masque: The British Costume Convention) have
been in the Birmingham area and one in Nottingham

> Teddy, do you know of any people up here, in Yorkshire sort of
> area?

Hmmm... not specifically Yorkshire, I don't think... and my
Geography is dire, but Derby's a lot closer to you than London, and
Maggie and Mike Percival (former zine editor and Chairman of
CGUK) are both based just outside Derby.

There are other northerners on h-costume too but with y
geographic! al inaccuracy i'd hesitate to say how close any of them
might be to you....

> I have been fascinated by costuming for ages, but have never made
> anything except my wedding dress as I would never get to wear it -
> good old Yorkshire thriftiness prevents me making anything with
> _no_ end use in mind.

Then you need to find some events you can get to.

> (Apart from my wedding dress, and knowing what I know now, I
> desperately want to take it apart and remake the bodice, with a corset
> etc to go with, but see above as to why I haven't).

Do you ever get down south?


Teddy


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storag! e.html --0-2142828802-1027159675=:23191-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 08:42:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01378 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:42:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LCQDE23679; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:26:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LCPsG20890; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 06:25:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KGAgs08399 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Azelana@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.123.13f016d4 (4470) for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:10:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Azelana@aol.com Message-ID: <123.13f016d4.2a6ae574@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_123.13f016d4.2a6ae574_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Subject: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:10:28 EDT Status: RO --part1_123.13f016d4.2a6ae574_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MJ wrote: <> Yes, I wear a lot of acetate. As long as you preshrink it, it washes well enough afterwards -- just gotta remember to iron on the lowest setting with no steam. In fact, I sometimes buy the cheap Baroque Satin from Jo-Ann's then deliberately wash and dry it in the dryer. That totally changes the drape. All the stiffness goes, and you're left with a more chameuse-like hand that can pass as a lesser silk. (Buy enough to allow for shrinkage!) And every now and then I can find a rayon version of duchess satin or charmeuse, which is way cheaper than silk of the same weight. (I always dry clean those at home with Dryel to avoid "the Shrinkage That Never Stops." hehe) I've also found that some acrylics designed to look like wool will pass the 3-foot test. My garb won't ever fool a textile expert, but there are many faux fabrics today that can pass as historically correct upon casual inspection. I just do the best I can to imitate the look. Plus, enough embellishment will distract the eye... <> I like linen-weave cottons (lotsa people don't know my "linen" isn't linen), but it really irks me to see historical garb done in that cheap cotton broadcloth. People often think that it'll look more historical because it's a natural fiber, but the finished garment just looks so awful! OK, not being a textile historian, I can't say whether or not cotton broadcloth is definitely out of period for pre-1600 Europe peasantry, but I can certainly tell if it isn't draping like the fabrics depicted in paintings of the time. Sometimes I wanna scream, "Fake would have looked better!" Does anyone here know about cotton broadcloth? Could you tell us when it became popular in Europe and what the historic texture was like? I've seen references to broadcloth, but I got the impression the fiber was not cotton, nor was it as smooth a weave as used today. So the question of the day; Do you fake your fabrics? If so... Which historic textiles are you imitating, and with which modern textiles have you replaced them? --Gillian --part1_123.13f016d4.2a6ae574_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MJ wrote:
<<Most hand processed fibers are quite pricey-so silk may be your cheapest =
route, although some rayons make very good silk substitutes- notice I =
said SOME of them- as the spin/weave structure has to be the same.
[snip]
 I've seen some nice fabrics in =
cotton/acetate that look quite good and were washable (despite what it =
said on the bolt). So perhaps you aren't confined to "just" cotton- and =
still have a nice look.>>

Yes, I wear a lot of acetate.  As long as you preshrink it, it washes well enough afterwards -- just gotta remember to iron on the lowest setting with no steam.  In fact, I sometimes buy the cheap Baroque Satin from Jo-Ann's then deliberately wash and dry it in the dryer.  That totally changes the drape.  All the stiffness goes, and you're left with a more chameuse-like hand that can pass as a lesser silk.  (Buy enough to allow for shrinkage!) And every now and then I can find a rayon version of duchess satin or charmeuse, which is way cheaper than silk of the same weight.  (I always dry clean those at home with Dryel to avoid "the Shrinkage That Never Stops." hehe)  I've also found that some acrylics designed to look like wool will pass the 3-foot test.  My garb won't ever fool a textile expert, but there are many faux fabrics today that can pass as historically correct upon casual inspection.  I just do the best I can to imitate! the look.  Plus, enough embellishment will distract the eye...

<<So perhaps you aren't confined to "just" cotton- and =
still have a nice look.>>

I like linen-weave cottons (lotsa people don't know my "linen" isn't linen), but it really irks me to see historical garb done in that cheap cotton broadcloth.  People often think that it'll look more historical because it's a natural fiber, but the finished garment just looks so awful!  OK, not being a textile historian, I can't say whether or not cotton broadcloth is definitely out of period for pre-1600 Europe peasantry, but I can certainly tell if it isn't draping like the fabrics depicted in paintings of the time.  Sometimes I wanna scream, "Fake would have looked better!"

Does anyone here know about cotton broadcloth?  Could you tell us when it became popular in Europe and what the historic texture was like?  I've seen references to broadcloth, but I got the impression the fiber was not cotton, nor was it as smooth a weave as used today.

So the question of the day;

Do you fake your fabrics? 
If so...  Which historic textiles are you imitating, and with which modern textiles have you replaced them?

--Gillian

 --part1_123.13f016d4.2a6ae574_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 09:18:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01479 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LD4qE24750; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LD4nG27910; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KH4pG20508 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:04:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17Vxf0-0008A3-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:04:50 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Subject: [h-cost] Victorian fancy dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:03:42 +0100 Status: RO People were discussing a few weeks ago "historical" costumes and fancy dress from earlier periods. When we went down to see my parents recently, my mother brought out the most amazing costume she had found among the stuff cleared from my great-grandmother's house. It is a jester's costume made in green and yellow satin, all beautifully constructed and lined. Unfortunately the satin has all perished in a number of places. It has a jacket with hanging tags with bells around the collar and waist and lace at the cuffs and down the front. The pantaloons were gathered on a drawstring at the waist, with lace at the cuffs. It also has a wonderful hood, with more bells and a cardboard-stiffened crest, and a little jester's doll with a porcelain head. I have put up some pictures at www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/costume. You can just see the dress guards inside the armholes, and a brooch at the neck. We think the costume may have been made for my great-grandmother for Queen Victoria's golden jubilee in 1897, when she would have been 20. There was also a sort of gypsy/gondolier outfit of a gathered and embroidered shirt, black trousers and red cummerbund, but this had obviously never been worn. We wonder what happened to the young beau? I am considering contacting the local library/local history department in Wolverhampton, where Great-Gran grew up, to see if they have any records of a pageant, even perhaps any photographs. My mother is planning to offer the costume to a museum (maybe the V&A? not sure) where they have a collection of items in less good condition which they allow people to handle to see the details of construction. -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 09:23:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01515 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:23:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LD97E24918; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LD96G28643; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LD1EG27256 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:01:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6LD1DS07742 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:01:13 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath-length question In-Reply-To: <3D396F01.3030907@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:01:13 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO ~242 cm long?! That's almost 2.5 metres, and 7.9 feet long. Is that length for both the front and back pieces put together? Ingrid On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, Magdalena wrote: > ~242 cm long and ~100 cm around, according to my ruler and Arnold's > scale. After I made him a shirt to that length, my sweetie refused to > wear any of his other shirts. It seems like a lot, but they stay in > your pants that way. > > Rachel wrote: > > >It is a little difficult to ascertain the exact dimensions from that photograph. It does make on > >wonder whether this is a mans shirt or a womans. It is a better length for a womans shirt and > >there is not a great deal of difference in the patterns used. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 09:42:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05593 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:42:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LDSAE25502; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:28:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LDS8G02226; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au (grape.dcsi.net.au [203.22.132.9]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LD7TG28309 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from u5c9p8 (ppp-424.dialup.war.dcsi.net.au [203.55.67.170]) by grape.dcsi.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6LD78Ev012082 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:07:25 +1000 Message-Id: <200207211307.g6LD78Ev012082@grape.dcsi.net.au> From: "Sharon Campbell" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.20.2502) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Beads X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Sharon Campbell" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:09:19 +1000 Status: RO in reference to the viking beads, my fiance & I have just received the cd's from Professor Dan Carlsson I can say it is the worth the value ordering the cd Sharon ( Frojel Gotlandica Vikings ) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 10:19:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05747 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:19:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LE4PE26920; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:04:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LE4MG09245; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LDooG06769 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:50:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id HAA09605 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:10:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207211410.HAA09605@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian fancy dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > I have put up some pictures at www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/costume. You > can just see the dress guards inside the armholes, and a brooch at the > neck. That URL doesn't work (yes, I made sure to omit the period). Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 10:29:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05805 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:29:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LEG7E27293; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:16:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LEG5G11425; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LE0ZG08575 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:00:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.52.146.4.dlls.grid.net ([63.52.146.4] helo=earthlink.net) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17WHGE-0003I7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:00:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3D3ABF2F.4050808@earthlink.net> From: Magdalena User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath-length question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:03:27 -0500 Status: RO Ingrid G. Storrř wrote: >~242 cm long?! That's almost 2.5 metres, and 7.9 feet long. Is that >length for both the front and back pieces put together? > >Ingrid > Sorry! Yes, that's the full length of the piece, front hem to back. -Magdalena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 10:30:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05825 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:30:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LEGLE27306; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LEGJG11504; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LE2dG08935 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:02:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust249.tnt3.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.239.203.249] helo=hppav) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17WHIC-0000x0-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:02:37 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c230bf$a5783300$f9cbef41@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:05:17 -0500 Status: RO Teddy, I heard this before about the problems of getting people together in the UK for costume events. I had a conversation at the CostumeCon in Hartford, CT a couple years ago. A mother and daughter who flew over from England for the event. When we told them we had driven two days with an overnite stop from Missouri to attend they said some of the people in the UK would not consider coming even half that distance no matter how the event. Some of it is the gas prices I think. We have much lower rates then Europe. We also carpooled for the trip, sharing one or two vehicles. For one of the next trips we're even thinking of chartering a bus so we can have someone else do the driving. Split the price among a number of people and its quite reasonable. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 10:34:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05829 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:34:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LEKTE27453; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:20:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LEKSG12390; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LDqdG07175 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:52:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 39jz301 (dhcp065-024-177-132.columbus.rr.com [65.24.177.132]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g6LDqcU22315 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003e01c230be$1d392900$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: References: <123.13f016d4.2a6ae574@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:54:15 -0400 Status: RO Greetings-- <> I suspect that the reason cotton broadcloth is popular is twofold: 1) It's cheap, 2) Being a natural fiber, it breathes, which means it's good for summer. As far as historical accuracy goes, most folks who use it either a) aren't making historical accuracy a priority (and this includes people who "just want some camping clothing"), or b) don't know any better (it looks better than synthetics to them, so what the hey.) Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 10:50:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05892 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:50:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LEaGE27894; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:36:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LEaEG15315; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (smtp.netins.net [167.142.225.202]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LEFNG11292 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:15:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [167.142.20.9] (HELO hppav) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 114115366 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:15:23 -0500 Message-ID: <027201c230c0$831a7b00$09148ea7@hppav> From: "Land of Oz" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian fancy dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:11:30 -0500 Status: RO > I have put up some pictures at www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/costume. You > can just see the dress guards inside the armholes, and a brooch at the > neck. > this web address gives a 404 error. Adding .html did not fix it. Removing the "costume" part takes me to the Shire of Harpelestane web page. Could you check the address again and re-post. I'd love to see this outfit. Denise _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 10:57:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05900 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:57:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LEi8E28145; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:44:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LEi6G16821; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:44:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LETaG14118 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:29:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.83]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZL00LJ8S9BFV@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:29:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian fancy dress In-reply-to: <200207211410.HAA09605@gw.retro.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020721072845.00cfe350@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:29:29 -0700 Status: RO > > I have put up some pictures at www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/costume. You > > can just see the dress guards inside the armholes, and a brooch at the > > neck. > >That URL doesn't work (yes, I made sure to omit the period). It says Demon not found when I try, and my browser automatically omitted the offending period. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 11:02:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05919 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:02:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LEmGE28289; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LEmFG17600; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LEbLG15587 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:37:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6LEbKP08211 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:37:20 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath-length question In-Reply-To: <3D3ABF2F.4050808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:37:20 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Magdalena wrote: > Ingrid G. Storrř wrote: > > >~242 cm long?! That's almost 2.5 metres, and 7.9 feet long. Is that > >length for both the front and back pieces put together? > > > >Ingrid > > > Sorry! Yes, that's the full length of the piece, front hem to back. Thanks. I was thinking "yes, no wonder that shirt stays tucked in!" ;) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 11:55:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06357 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:55:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LFfQE00239; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:41:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LFfOG27484; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KIdGG11966 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (morr0629.gti.net [208.216.122.29]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id EFDCA35877 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:39:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D39AE55.1C2EE2B3@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, References: <1F377B9403B@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:39:17 -0400 Status: RO YES. I am just in love with fashion & style in general. I love couture though I can't afford to buy it. Prada is my favorite. Actually, I just won a Prada dress off eBay in this amazing Art Nouveau-ish chiffon.. My favorite designers are Miuccia Prada, Dolce & Gabbana, Vivienne Westwood & John Galliano. Also admire the work of Tom Ford, Anna Sui, Marc Jacobs & Betsy Johnson, just to name a few. Yes, I pour over Vogue with as much enthusiasm as I do books on historic costume. Deb R. > > Let's see, is there anyone on this list, in the UK, who actually > > *likes* current fashion?? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 11:56:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06370 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:56:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LFflE00255; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LFfjG27558; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KIgRG12716 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (morr0629.gti.net [208.216.122.29]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 59C7535918 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D39AF14.7723A3C5@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, References: <1F377B9403B@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <3D39AE55.1C2EE2B3@gti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:42:28 -0400 Status: RO Oh sorry, I didn't know the question was UK-specific. But for what it's worth, most of my favorite fashion designers are from the UK. Deb R > > Let's see, is there anyone on this list, in the UK, who actually > > *likes* current fashion?? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 11:56:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06374 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:56:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LFgAE00305; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LFfqG27615; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KKP0G06251 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-176.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.176]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6KKOxF169170 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:24:59 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01c2302b$87f4f5a0$b02caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <20020719231209.19676.qmail@uwdvg001.cms.usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Re: test/OT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:25:03 -0700 Status: RO I 'm just making sure I haven't unsubbed inadvertently - please ignore this. angela Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shea Young" To: Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [Re: [[h-cost] Re: shop and home economics]] > "Kate M Bunting" wrote: > > What is pillow furniture? > > Sofa, love seat, and chair cushions made with tapestry fabric and usually > stuffed with those tiny foam balls that didn't hold up very well. > When the fad first started, the frame work was usually wooden 2" x 4"s that > were crudely decorated and stained a dark color. Waterbeds came into fashion > at the same time and often had the same kind of frame work - kind of rustic > medieval. > > Another popular fad was Bean Bag chairs. Again, tapestry fabric cut in a > slightly shaped pattern that looked like a huge, messy bean bag. It was filled > with the foam balls and would form to your body when you sat down. You had to > pick them up and give them a shake or two (like fluffing a pillow) before you > sat down. I've seen a few still being sold, but in bright, loud colors and > made from vinyl. Yech.... > > Shea > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 11:57:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06403 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:57:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LFg0E00290; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LFfnG27594; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:41:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from frankenstein.nwlink.com (pop.nwlink.com [209.20.130.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KJYGG24488 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asuscoh (ip157.usw19.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.235.157]) by frankenstein.nwlink.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6KJYFw55341 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:34:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scourney@nwlink.com) Message-ID: <004001c23024$cc601500$9debcacf@nwlink.com> From: "Susan" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing designers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:36:52 -0700 Status: RO While I have never practiced, I do have an architecture degree. As a student I was required to take classes in structures (how buildings stand up), HVAC (which included plumbing & electrical systems in addition to heating and air conditioning), and how people react to and move around the inside and outside of buildings. I had to be able to use complex formulas to calculate things like the effect of windows on heating and cooling and weather (wind, snow, rain and so forth) on both small wood frame buildings and tall skyscrapers (using just a calculator, now I imagine they have computer programs that do this). So my point is that while it wasn't practical to have us go out an build a skyscraper, we did end up with a very real idea of how to build one. As for smaller buildings, like houses, I could have worked on a project were we actually built something ( I opted for the furniture making studio instead). To equate this with designing clothing/costumes - I would have learned the seams: types, how to make them, how they react to stress, and how they look; Types of cloth: how they bend, what makes them fail, how they react in weather. And so forth. For a certain number of designs, I would be required to make scale models. So while design is a matter of how something looks - you have to know the materials you are working with no matter if they be steel or silk. Not only as individual parts, but also as how all the parts react together as a whole. Considering how much easier it is to make a dress, then it is a house, having a clothing designer NOT sew seems like poor training. Having them not design, sew and wear something, seems even worse. I can design spectcular buildings, as long as I don't have to worry about what they are made with and how they are put together. And how real people would live or work in them. Notes: As for bathrooms, yes we learned to how design them and where they go. There is a practical reason why in most skyscrapers the bathrooms are near the elevators. I dislike the current dress styles (the long straight skirts) they are both impractical and only look nice if you are standing. You can't really do anything in them. I haven't bought a new dress in several years. Susan Courney > > See....I have a problem with this kind of thinking. Designers.....good > > ones....do know something about drape and fabric. Just because they cannot > > make a garment does not make for bad design. Design is visual. Do you think > > all architects can build and plumb and wire up a sky scraper? You come up > > with a look....you hire an expert cutter/draper to make it work. > > No, but I'd expect the architect to know that a building at least needed > plumbing (what, you want RESTROOMS? I can't be bothered with such > trivia), and to know what stresses the building materials he'd chosen > could handle. > > > And is it the designer's fault that people will buy things like pet rocks, > > kitchen witches, or skirts so tight they cannot be worn while going up > > stairs? And are skirts that tight MEANT for anything but the visuals? > > :O They do???? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 12:26:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06705 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:26:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LGCsE01482; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:12:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGCqG04129; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KNrCG25442 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-001mosloup053.dialsprint.net ([168.191.109.37] helo=hppav) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17W42A-0007p7-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:53:10 -0400 Message-ID: <003401c23048$f8cc1ca0$6978e541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:55:45 -0500 Status: RO Hey Sue, my mom put me in a 4-H group when I was about 8. She had realized by then that trying to teach me herself was a bad idea. She's an excellent seamtress, but our personalities would not allow it. The handwork I was already doing in grade school (nuns of course) on rainy days when we couldn't get out side for recess or lunch we could sit at our desks and do embroidery. I did lots of preprinted blocks for baby quilts. The costuming came much later. Making clothes for myself was an acceptable form of self-expression. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 12:35:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06726 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:35:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LGM7E01877; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGM6G06106; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGDfG04279 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWn8FSxsqc+atkj586+ladbxNx+NX7SoCeg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G79M675P; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:13:32 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Message-ID: <20020721.121334.-482711.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,13-15 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:08:44 -0400 Status: RO <<>> Could wear? Yes. Would wear? Not on a bet. I hated and despised that dress. It was a dusty rose with perfectly inset sleeves and a row of tucks on the skirt. It was well made and I wouldn't even use the pattern afterwards. I also hated and despised the teacher who knew less about sewing than I did and made us go into the most unnecessary details. Having been through a professionally taught sewing class as a birthday present when I was thirteen and having sewed since I was able to hold a needle and thread, her kindergarten tactics just made my head ache. I did like the cooking teacher and that class was fun though. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 12:42:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06741 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:42:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LGSrE02099; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:28:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGSqG07511; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:28:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6KNvVG26364 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:57:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-001mosloup053.dialsprint.net ([168.191.109.37] helo=hppav) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17W46K-00076D-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:57:28 -0400 Message-ID: <003c01c23049$92a18540$6978e541@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric shops in the UK Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:00:04 -0500 Status: RO Hey Teddy, do they have a website. I like floaty cottons. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 12:55:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06776 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:55:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LGfRE02670; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGfNG10349; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGKEG05756 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZL00I1UXBWHL@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:19:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics In-reply-to: <006001c22fb3$4e408d60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20020719.073047.-217645.0.Cley@juno.com> <006001c22fb3$4e408d60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:18:50 -0400 Status: RO At 2:04 AM -0400 7/20/02, Penny Ladnier wrote: >Did anyone make something in home ec that they could wear? In my first >class we made a jumper. by the time I had Home Ec in 7th grade, I had been sewing for about 7 years. I chose to make a short pinafore dress with matching panties (It was that short) with a one way design fabric. The pattern had 16 pieces. I only cut one piece upside down. And I wore that dress for the rest of the year. Linda K-S _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:02:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06796 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:02:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LGnBE03046; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGn8G12025; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGcGG09705 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:38:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17WJiq-0007XV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:38:16 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) Organization: PII Message-ID: <001b01c230d3$ad2aef20$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <003e01c230be$1d392900$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:28:41 -0700 Status: RO I think this is a great thread. I use linen/cotton blends sometimes because I can get them in more interesting weaves for chemises etc. (There probably was cotton for the period I am using it for, but not for the class of character-working/middle). I have also done some very cool lace imitations for the stage. Stencil the lace, and then we used glue to raise the pattern-that was many years ago. I suspect now that 3-d fabric paint would work really well. And it comes in colors! I am thinking about using some Turel for an outfit. It feels like a very lightweight wool and fabric-store.com has some fabulous colors. I have a silk/wool blend that is woven very similarly. (Not that I know much about period weaves-I guess I am just not THAT serious!). Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:04:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06801 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:04:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LGfAE02639; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGf9G10296; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:41:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGQpG07113 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17WJXm-0004oM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:26:50 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <001601c230d2$1476f180$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C23097.68181980" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <92.290ea0a7.2a6ae7a9@aol.com> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Great place to shop for fabric in MA:Was: You live in Boston? (WAS:Re: shop and home economics) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:17:15 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C23097.68181980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a fabulous place in Springfield MA, called Osgood's. When I used to work at UMass in the costume shop (another lifetime ago), we used to shop there. But it was there a few years ago when I was visiting too-much more organized than I remembered it! Have fun-I am jealous-we don't have good tailor end stores in Phoenix. Saragrace ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C23097.68181980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
There=20 is a fabulous place in Springfield MA, called Osgood's.  When I = used to=20 work at UMass in the costume shop (another lifetime ago), we used to = shop=20 there.  But it was there a few years ago when I was visiting = too-much more=20 organized than I remembered it!
 
Have=20 fun-I am jealous-we don't have good tailor end stores in=20 Phoenix.
 
Saragrace
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C23097.68181980-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:26:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06851 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:26:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHDAE03894; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHD9G16838; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LH04G14232 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-113.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.113]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6LH034274966 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:00:04 -0400 Message-ID: <008a01c230d8$12c05920$712caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020719165810.00a61680@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse with 'sequence' on e-bay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:00:09 -0700 Status: RO Perhaps they simply meant that the sequins had been sewn on in sequence.... JK. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "And thus I clothe my naked villany With odd old ends stoln' forth of holy writ, And seem a saint when most I play the devil" Richard III, I, iii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 4:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] purse with 'sequence' on e-bay > Actually the purse said 'beaded and sequence'. Turned out to be 'sequins' > they meant it had. So I stomped around, fuming about the state of modern > education, had dinner, and now I feel better. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:27:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06862 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:27:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHDKE03911; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHDGG16865; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LH0jG14346 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-113.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.113]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6LH0i4233134 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:00:45 -0400 Message-ID: <00b101c230d8$2b3073a0$712caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <20020719.073047.-217645.0.Cley@juno.com> <006001c22fb3$4e408d60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:00:50 -0700 Status: RO Peasant blouse & skirt. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics > Did anyone make something in home ec that they could wear? In my first > class we made a jumper. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:27:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06867 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:27:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHDLE03912; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHDJG16892; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.46]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGq4G12657 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZL009FKYPEGO@mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:48:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] Great place to shop for fabric in MA:Was: You live in Boston? (WAS:Re: shop and home economics) In-reply-to: <001601c230d2$1476f180$6501a8c0@Home> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Saragrace knauf Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <001601c230d2$1476f180$6501a8c0@Home> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:48:49 -0400 Status: RO At 9:17 AM -0700 7/21/02, Saragrace knauf wrote: There is a fabulous place in Springfield MA, called Osgood's. When I used to work at UMass in the costume shop (another lifetime ago), we used to shop there. But it was there a few years ago when I was visiting too-much more organized than I remembered it! Have fun-I am jealous-we don't have good tailor end stores in Phoenix. What about SAS. It may not the the garment district but you can get some wonderful things there if you go consistently. There are also other outlets in Tempe, Glendale (I think) and Tucson. Linda K-S _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:27:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06868 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHDVE03931; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHDMG16912; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LGuqG13545 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:56:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-113.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.113]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6LGup4439374 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:56:51 -0400 Message-ID: <005701c230d7$a03a1c60$712caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <012d01c22f51$9ec21090$9865fea9@ANGELA> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing - Fashion design v. art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:56:57 -0700 Status: RO Fortunately the theater set designers I work with do know their stuff. But there are a lot out there who only "talk a good game" to use an expression that is common over here. angela Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Waddie" To: Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing - Fashion design v. art > Sounds very familiar to my husband's experiences with theatre set > designers. He builds for a few amateur companies, and they tend to > employ young, supposedly professional designers. Many of them turn up > weeks late, with drawings that aren't properly scaled, and absolutely no > concept of how much time or money it will take to construct them. I was > interested to see a documentary the other night about the production of > a new musical in London, and the designers really knew their deadlines > and appreciated the practical side of things. > > Maybe it's like I often find at work - there is a certain level people > rise to by talking a good line and making the appearances, but they > never reach the really senior levels. Senior managers are much more > down to earth and have a depth of knowledge in what they're dealing > with. > > Jean > > Angela F. Lazear- Cabbage Rose wrote > >That strikes me as bizarre. My youngest daughter wants to "follow in my > >footsteps" and design, and she can already draw, but, at 17, she does not > >yet sew (I know, I'm a baaaad mother). I've been assuming Fashion School > >would teach pattern drafting and draping NOT art. I guess I was completely > >incorrect about that. > > > >Most of her designs (I make them for her) are visually very appealing, but > >she often lacks an understanding of garment construction and it shows. We > >work together, so not an issue there, but I cannot imagine designing (and > >getting paid!) with a complete lack of the basics of fabrics & the way they > >fall. Bias is a big example of that. I made a dress for a show and cut the > >skirt on the bias in wool, to give that wonderful flow that only bias can > >give. I was working fast, so I didn't let it "grow" on the hanger for a day > >like you are supposed to, but knowing it would do its thing, I left it on > >the hanger for a few days, and allowed quite a bit of time for the hemming > >of it, as it became 3-4 inches longer all around. How could anyone without a > >knowledge of something so basic make good clothes, and that's just one > >example of what I'm sure are thousands. > > > >grrrrr > > > >angela > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Linda Krecker-Schkred" > >To: > >Cc: "Kevin & Mara Riley" > >Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:12 AM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US 2 > > > > > >> At 12:25 PM -0400 7/19/02, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > >> How could they possibly expect the fashions to work (drape, > >> >flow, etc.), if they don't know anything about sewing and fabric? Or are > >> >they leaving that up to the seamstresses? Sheesh... > >> > >> Yeah, sort of. I've worked with plenty of highly paid designers in a > >> number theatres in this region. Some take an interest in what is sewn > >> and know at least basic techniques, while others don't. Designers get > >> their jobs by presenting to the artistic staff a concept. Usually in > >> the form of rather abstract illustrations. They are encouraged to > >> draw artistically by their teachers and that style is what sells. > >> Once a design is accepted it is up to the drapers, and pattern makers > >> to interpret the design. Then cutters cut the fabric. Sometimes this > >> is the same person as the draper. Then the stitchers do their part. > >> > >> It is not much different in the fashion world. > >> > >> Linda K-S > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:38:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06903 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:38:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHP8E04401; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHP6G19487; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHB3G16446 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-113.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.113]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6LHB24404770 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:11:02 -0400 Message-ID: <013601c230d9$9b528c30$712caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <00c801c22fbe$51c2ae40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Designers know it all MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:11:08 -0700 Status: RO Penny, The criteria for taking a design credit on film is unclear to me. I know for stage, it is usual to have a single head designer, (or sometimes a pair of designers for costumes). I do have assistants to carry out my designs, and when they desire, I will give them something that they can add their own particular "style" to. It is possible that Edith Head did oversee the work of those beneath her to some degree. I don't know the studio system, so I can't be sure. So she would have been part costume designer/ part costume coordinator (anything that isn't made specifically for the film would be pulled and matched to the design, which is also a legitimate art form). Anyway, it would be fascinating to see what the studios consider a "head designers" job to be. Like that gal who won for Titanic didn't actually make most of the clothes, using many many real period garments, right. But she still won for the film, as she was responsible for the overall look, which I believe most of us agree was pretty good. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not I have used my credit." King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- > One big contraversary with film costume designers is where is credit due.... > some past designers only designed the leading actresses costumes and took > the Oscar for designing all the film's costumes. I believe Edith Head was > one of the big designers who did this. There were other designers working > on the show, that designed the men and/or women's costumes but didn't > receive an Oscar. Something to think about. > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:45:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06923 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:45:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHVCE04660; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHVBG20795; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6L0ETG00305 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:14:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.149] (pm5-149.eos.net [205.133.149.149]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12173 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 20:14:26 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200207151804.g6FI4PN24813@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: window pane muslin Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 20:14:02 -0400 Status: RO Kayta said: > > I routinely strike out at WalMart, in the fabric section. But I look every > time I go to one for something else (last time it was for a new car > battery). I did score big once only, and that was finding a couple of > bundled remnants of windowpane muslin (batiste-thin cloth with a thicker > thread every half inch both ways, making a grid). I'd read about it, and > seen pictures of it, but I never saw it for sale anywhere, before or > since. I'm not sure if I want to do a Regency day dress with it, or part > of an Edwardian lingerie dress. > American shoppers looking for batiste-thin cloth should check out the Martha Stewart sheers at K-mart. I bought a pair for my daughter's room this summer. There are several styles, and I think one was windowpane. Another is embroidered all over in white chain-stitch. Another is all white with colored tucks at the top. The cloth is the sheerest that I've ever seen, certainly I've never seen anything in a fabric store that sheer. It's lovely and the curtains come in 84-inch lengths for very reasonable prices (about $15 for a set of two) -- and are frequently on sale for 20% off! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:45:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06927 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:45:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHVgE04727; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHVZG20967; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6L3ciG16850 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 21:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2108.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.108]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28220 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:38:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3D3A2B2A.2AAC14EA@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Arnold articles:Was: Blackwork. . . . . References: <000001c22e87$645bddc0$6501a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:31:54 -0400 Status: RO Hi. The article by Janet Arnold on shirts and smocks is in english. It is about 20 pages long. I have a rather poor copy that I would be willing to share. Send me a private note, Mike T. > > Arnold, Janet (1977). "Elizabethan and Jacobean smocks and shirts". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:46:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06931 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:45:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHVhE04729; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHVcG20985; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx1.famvid.com (b.mx.famvid.com [208.16.68.103] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6L4VGG27893 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 7865 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2002 04:29:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jeanne) (66.94.197.15) by mx2.famvid.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2002 04:29:12 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c2306f$73d2e7a0$9865fea9@jeanne> From: "Jeanne Harney" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:31:08 -0400 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > But the very best thing is still if you can learn to sew from your mom :-) Unless, as a child, you think it's stupid and boring. But she makes you learn anyway. Then, 20 years later, you fall to your knees and thank her because you never knew how valuable her lessons were...and she's shocked. Thank heavens she's still here so I could thank her in person. Jeanne who always wanted "store" clothes and got homemade. Now has store clothes and is thrilled when she has time to make "homemade". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:46:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06935 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:46:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHVuE04754; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHVhG21030; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6L4u2G02935 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF759801C4; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:58:29 -0500 Message-ID: <00b101c23072$df45e520$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] New Class Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:55:44 -0400 Status: RO I have added a new class to the schedule at the Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com . It is called "How To Get Your Business On The Evening News" and class will begin Sept. 9. The class will be geared toward fashion and costume businesses. In this class you will learn some marketing techniques and how to write press releases that will catch a journalist's eyes. The class will be taught by Mary Beth Klatt, a free-lance journalist who has had several articles published in the Chicago Tribute. Please take time to read Mary Beth's bio and the list of some of the articles that she has had published. This class is limited to 25 students. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:46:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06939 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:46:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHVuE04756; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHVfG21008; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx1.famvid.com (b.mx.famvid.com [208.16.68.103] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6L4kZG01171 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:46:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13824 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2002 04:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jeanne) (66.94.197.15) by mx2.famvid.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2002 04:44:27 -0000 Message-ID: <004b01c23071$966a6cf0$9865fea9@jeanne> From: "Jeanne Harney" To: References: <179.b6b08af.2a6701bb@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:46:12 -0400 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: > Can everybody add their own experiences? I'd be curious to see how many of > us are still exposed to sewing in school, and how that may be affecting the > declining home sewing industry... > > --Gillian the seamstress My mom was a couture seamstress, and is now a rather wellknown quilter/judge/lecturer, so I was practically born with a needle in my hand. I hated it. I never appreciated what she was making me learn. She also doesn't cook. It's not really safe to LET her cook, as she'll get all involved in what she's doing with fabric and forget. She used to burn the bottoms out of a pot a week...so I started cooking for my family, standing on a chair, when I was 6 or 7. In 8th grade we had to take Home Ec. 1 quarter of sewing, one of cooking. I was pretty qualified already in both, but I was female, so I couldn't take shop. I got D's in both. In sewing, because we had to make an a-line skirt, and I'd just finished my 4-H project at home, a tailored blazer with handmade buttonholes, and I was bored, didn't ask enough questions, didn't pin closely enough, etc etc. In cooking, because I changed all the seasonings in the recipes (I still can't follow a recipe) and because I licked my fingers. Jeanne who really would have been better off in shop. Still can't do a lot of that stuff... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 13:59:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07092 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:59:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LHj9E05319; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LHj8G23916; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21302.mail.yahoo.com (web21302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.210]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6LHV9G20790 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:31:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020721173109.33588.qmail@web21302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:31:09 PDT From: kj green To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00b101c230d8$2b3073a0$712caf40@angelap3a8d978> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I took Home Ec in 7th grade. We made jumpers and had to wear them to get at least a passing grade. Mine turned out fine; it had a square neckline and was deep red with tiny orange, yellow and blue flowers scattered on it; I wore it with a white blouse and red knee sox. I did wear it for most of the school year. By the next year, I'd gotten too tall for it though. By the time I was in the 9th grade I was sewing almost all of my clothes. I made my "first day of school" dress that year--a long sleeved babydoll dress with a lime-green background with impressionistic white daisys with apricot yellow centers scattered all over it. It was very similar to one I'd seen in a fashion/teen magazine. I got teased about it til they started showing up in local stores a few months later. kate ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny Ladnier" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 11:04 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics > > > > Did anyone make something in home ec that they > could wear? In my first > > class we made a jumper. > > > > Penny Ladnier > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > http://www.costumegallery.com > > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 14:17:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07137 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:17:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LI3tE06003; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:03:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LI3sG27594; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:03:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6L5JrG07962 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:19:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.9.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.9]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17W98K-0007tu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 01:19:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 20:07:03 -0700 Status: RO Catching up on my e-mail.... At 1:39 PM +0200 7/15/02, Ingrid G. Storrř wrote: >"...Vid ĺtermonteringen >syddes alla sömmar med smygsöm... > >Translation of the word "smygsöm" is basically the only thing left that >I'm wondering about; It seems like it ought to mean "ornamental stitching" or "decorative stitching," cf. Danish "smykke". However that doesn't get us much farther, does it? A pass through my small collection of Danish/Norwegian embroidery books doesn't turn up anything either. Sorry! -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 14:48:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07183 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:48:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LIYBE07303; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LIY9G04182; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LIECG29798 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:14:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17WLDg-0001US-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:14:12 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:22:40 -0400 Status: RO At 2:04 AM -0400 7/20/02, Penny Ladnier wrote: >Did anyone make something in home ec that they could wear? In my first >class we made a jumper. The class project was an apron, but I got permission to make a shirt and pants set as I could already sew (my mom let my sister and I take a course at Sears when I was 12 since we wanted to sew more than she did). But I also remember my mother making our "formal" 6th grade dinner dance dresses and I still remember how mad she was when I ripped the knee out of a pair of pants she had made me for 3rd grade. Still have fond memories of that old Singer. Maybe that's why I now collect them and restore them. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 14:55:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07222 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:55:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LIg7E07605; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LIg5G05848; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:42:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LIQAG02433 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:26:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17WLPF-000PM3-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:26:09 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian fancy dress References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:25:25 +0100 Status: RO Sorry people, the address needs a capital C - www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/Costume Apologies to those who couldn't find the page. Jean Jean Waddie wrote >People were discussing a few weeks ago "historical" costumes and fancy >dress from earlier periods. When we went down to see my parents >recently, my mother brought out the most amazing costume she had found >among the stuff cleared from my great-grandmother's house. > >It is a jester's costume made in green and yellow satin, all >beautifully constructed and lined. Unfortunately the satin has all >perished in a number of places. It has a jacket with hanging tags with >bells around the collar and waist and lace at the cuffs and down the >front. The pantaloons were gathered on a drawstring at the waist, with >lace at the cuffs. It also has a wonderful hood, with more bells and a >cardboard-stiffened crest, and a little jester's doll with a porcelain head. > >I have put up some pictures at www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/costume. You >can just see the dress guards inside the armholes, and a brooch at the >neck. > >We think the costume may have been made for my great-grandmother for >Queen Victoria's golden jubilee in 1897, when she would have been 20. >There was also a sort of gypsy/gondolier outfit of a gathered and >embroidered shirt, black trousers and red cummerbund, but this had >obviously never been worn. We wonder what happened to the young beau? > >I am considering contacting the local library/local history department >in Wolverhampton, where Great-Gran grew up, to see if they have any >records of a pageant, even perhaps any photographs. My mother is >planning to offer the costume to a museum (maybe the V&A? not sure) >where they have a collection of items in less good condition which they >allow people to handle to see the details of construction. -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:04:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07247 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:04:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LIoKE07903; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LIoJG07670; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:50:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6LIaZG04645 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:36:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020721183634.37347.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:36:34 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK sewing together To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020719210745.27437.qmail@web40309.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:36:34 +0100 (BST) Status: RO starting to catch up on my email here now that all that is left is a sinusitis. ;-) --- marcus findlay-arthur wrote: > Oh folks if you do this would you please let me in? of course! > I'm going nuts in Birmingham. in birmingham... hmm.. the only person near there is my sister and she does not sew for the life of her. Haven't had the chance to > hook up with similar minded folks since moving here > nearly two years ago from the USA. oh dear! no re-enactment, no costume stuff, no nothing? > Mostly my work schedule is to blame because its 24/7. oh dear again. never a day off or two? > Am like a dying man in the desert here! *hands a flask* Nicole - down in the south east in lovely kent ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:04:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07251 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:04:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LIoTE07924; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LIoRG07720; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f21.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.21]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LIXsG04098 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:33:48 -0700 Received: from 24.200.48.35 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:33:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2002 18:33:48.0935 (UTC) FILETIME=[27927970:01C230E5] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:33:48 +0000 Status: RO We made boxers. We had to buy our fabric ourselves, so I made sure to take something I liked. I still wear them to sleep. >From: "Penny Ladnier" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics >Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 02:04:27 -0400 > >Did anyone make something in home ec that they could wear? In my first >class we made a jumper. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:36:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07314 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:36:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJLKE09179; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJLFG14937; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LIw4G09371 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22427 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:22:52 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6LIw4G09371 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:22:52 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, Chris Laning wrote: > >Translation of the word "smygsöm" is basically the only thing left that > >I'm wondering about; > > It seems like it ought to mean "ornamental stitching" or "decorative > stitching," cf. Danish "smykke". However that doesn't get us much > farther, does it? A pass through my small collection of > Danish/Norwegian embroidery books doesn't turn up anything either. A friend of mine who is a costume historian and is also fluent in Danish tells me that one problem she's run into with costume description in the Danish language is that there simply aren't as many specific words/terms in Danish as there are in English. The vocabulary of the language is apparently much smaller overall -- my friend says 1/3 fewer words than English. And so where we might be used to specialized terms to describe different techniques, properties of fabrics, details of cut, etc., there aren't equivalent words in Danish to express the same thoughts, at least not so precisely. She told me this caused a real problem when she tried to get information from Danish specialists/curators. I would guess that this would be a problem also when you're trying to glean specifics out of written material. The specifics may simply not be there, and one word may have (to us) multiple uses. I don't know if this is true of Swedish or other Scandinavian languages, though. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:39:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07333 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:39:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJPBE09404; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJPAG15990; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:25:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net (scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJLVG14997 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net ([10.116.0.124]) by scanmail4.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:20:47 -0700 Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124] by scanmail4.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A98C452B012A; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:20:47 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:20:47 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Victorian fancy dress Message-ID: <000001c230eb$de3f3f90$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:21:51 -0500 Status: RO Jean-- I don't think a woman would have worn such a costume in 1897. The pants are too short, the legs would show. Of course, I can't tell for sure when it's on a bed instead of on a person, but it looks like this is a man's costume. Could that be? Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jean Waddie Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 1:25 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian fancy dress Sorry people, the address needs a capital C - www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/Costume Apologies to those who couldn't find the page. Jean Jean Waddie wrote >People were discussing a few weeks ago "historical" costumes and fancy >dress from earlier periods. When we went down to see my parents >recently, my mother brought out the most amazing costume she had found >among the stuff cleared from my great-grandmother's house. > >It is a jester's costume made in green and yellow satin, all >beautifully constructed and lined. Unfortunately the satin has all >perished in a number of places. It has a jacket with hanging tags with >bells around the collar and waist and lace at the cuffs and down the >front. The pantaloons were gathered on a drawstring at the waist, with >lace at the cuffs. It also has a wonderful hood, with more bells and a >cardboard-stiffened crest, and a little jester's doll with a porcelain head. > >I have put up some pictures at www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/costume. You >can just see the dress guards inside the armholes, and a brooch at the >neck. > >We think the costume may have been made for my great-grandmother for >Queen Victoria's golden jubilee in 1897, when she would have been 20. >There was also a sort of gypsy/gondolier outfit of a gathered and >embroidered shirt, black trousers and red cummerbund, but this had >obviously never been worn. We wonder what happened to the young beau? > >I am considering contacting the local library/local history department >in Wolverhampton, where Great-Gran grew up, to see if they have any >records of a pageant, even perhaps any photographs. My mother is >planning to offer the costume to a museum (maybe the V&A? not sure) >where they have a collection of items in less good condition which they >allow people to handle to see the details of construction. -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:43:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07342 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:43:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJRuE09587; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:27:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJRtG16695; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:27:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6L5JvG08002 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.9.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.9]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17W98O-0007tu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 01:19:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020717221907.20342.qmail@uadvg137.cms.usa.net> References: <20020717221907.20342.qmail@uadvg137.cms.usa.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:15:57 -0700 Status: RO Catching up on about a month of e-mail.... My experience with Home Ec in 7th grade sounds a lot like Kat's. One semester of cooking (extremely boring: white sauce, pumpkin pie) and one of sewing (everyone else made an A-line skirt, I had to be different so I made box pleats in pink and white gingham). This was in the mid 1960s and no one DREAMED of girls taking shop or boys taking Home Ec in THAT school. Before I started 8th grade, we moved to another town and another school system -- what a difference! I was immediately plunked into a college prep program and lots of Honors courses, which was good, but nobody in college prep ever took _any_ practical courses -- those were for the "vocational" track kids, who weren't going on to college. Actually what I remember most vividly is that in my 7th-grade school, we still had to stand up to answer when the teachers called on us in class, and it took me several weeks to get used to _not_ doing it at the new school. I've treasured that as something my grand-nieces and nephews will never believe when I tell them :) As for when I actually learned to cook and sew -- my mother never let me help around the house at all. I learned to cook decently in Girl Scouts, but I have no idea how or when I learned to sew, except that I know I was already embroidering the summer I was six, because that's when I also learned to knit and crochet. These were just things that "everyone" knew how to do, at least the simple stuff. (I am also slightly surprised when I meet adults who don't know how to read music -- we just took it for granted, but then, my grandmother was a piano teacher.) I work at a girls' high school now, and when I volunteered a few years ago to help a math teacher with quilts as part of the geometry class, I was appalled to discover how many students couldn't so much as thread a needle or sew on a button. Not only that, their _mothers_, who I was counting on to be able to help them, couldn't either. This is a school that prides itself on how many of its graduates go to "good" colleges, and I think the sewing classes went out when the "college" emphasis came in. I guess these days if you need your pants hemmed, you take them to a dry cleaner's and they charge you lots of money :) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:44:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07348 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:44:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJS6E09638; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJS2G16751; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6L5K2G08041 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.9.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.9]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17W98S-0007tu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 01:20:01 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200207182009.g6IK9t738158@jabberwock.wonderland.com> References: <200207182009.g6IK9t738158@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Dharma Trading (WAS: Tansy wool ) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:19:28 -0700 Status: RO At 1:09 PM -0700 7/18/02, Heather Meadows wrote: >I was just thinking about this too, as I want some silk twill for a >bustle dress. I've never ordered fabric from Dharma though, I didn't know >the quality. In my experience, their stuff is EXCELLENT. I'm fortunate enough to live within driving distance of them (well, an hour and a quarter or so...), and while their selection of fabrics is somewhat limited (and all white or off-white) the quality seems to be very good. I picked up a very yummy remnant of silk gauze the last time I was there which feels wonderful. They also have lots and lots of knitting yarn :) And the people who work there are very nice and seem to be very knowledgeable as well. They do have a website, BTW: the expected http://www.dharmatrading.com/ -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:44:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07352 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:44:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJS8E09640; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJRxG16724; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:27:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6L5JxG08020 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:19:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.9.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.9]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17W98Q-0007tu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 01:19:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Books from David Brown, Renaissance Jewelry Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:17:59 -0700 Status: RO At 2:36 PM +0000 7/16/02, Mary Temple wrote: >Do they have a website one can order from? On the Web, it's http://www.oxbowbooks.com This takes you to a screen where you can choose whether to visit Oxbow Books in England, or David Brown Books, their American branch. They are both very nice people, even nicer if you call them on the telephone to ask questions or find out whether they can get a certain book that isn't listed. (Though they may also suggest, "...but if you're interested in *this*, then you also might like *that* book, and...." Highly dangerous to the pocketbook! ) I've ordered from both; Oxbow tends to have more titles (including more discounted titles), but of course the shipping time is longer. Books often seem to go on sale there before they go on sale at the David Brown site, but if they have it in Britain, David Brown can get it for you if you prefer to order from them. One more tip: the difference between the airmail rates and the surface rates for shipping from Oxbow in England to the U.S. is usually only about 20%. Airmail takes from about 10 days to 3 weeks, surface 4 to 12 weeks. I go for airmail. * * * * * * * * ObCostumeRelated: Several months ago I ordered a copy of _The Waddesdon Bequest in the British Museum, Vol. I. The Jewels_, by Hugh Tait, from Oxbow (which had it on sale, don't know if they still do). I'd taken this book out of the library when it was new and was fascinated by it. It analyzes in exhaustive detail about fifty pieces of Renaissance jewelry from this major bequest to the British Museum, plus a few other odds and ends. It discusses everything from the sources of the stones, how they are cut, the style of the metal ornaments, the colors of the enamel, how the piece was assembled, and how it's been repaired over the years. They just about take them apart and put them back together for you while you watch. You could hardly get more detail, and of course there are lots of nice BIG photos, quite a few of them in color. The really fascinating part is that this is one of the first books (1986) on Renaissance jewelry written *after* the British Museum slowly became aware that a good many of the pieces of "Renaissance" jewelry currently in existence -- including quite a few pieces in their own collections -- are, in fact, nineteenth-century fakes, or else so heavily altered and "repaired" in the nineteenth century as to be more modern than Renaissance. The book tells you the whole story, and as you progress through the jewels discussed in detail, the author points out all the telltale techniques and other bits of evidence that have been used to prove this. This is the only one that's costume-related, but there are at least two other volumes in the series: Vol. II is the silver (dishes & plate), and Vol. III is the "curiosities" -- ostrich-egg cups, a so-called Cellini vase (a Roman vase with 19th-century fake-Renaissance additions), a tankard carved entirely of amber, several spectacular nautilus cups, et cetera. These are also on sale, but not for as deep a discount as the first volume. There are eventually supposed to be two more volumes covering glass, majolica, armor, et cetera. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:44:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07357 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:44:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJSnE09705; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:29:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJSaG16960; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LAELG28321 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 04:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020721101415.HVJE8192.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:14:15 +0000 Message-ID: <3D3A8971.3020602@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Costuming Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Test Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 03:14:09 -0700 Status: RO Just a test _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:44:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07358 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:44:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJSpE09715; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJSeG16996; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LBBxG08059 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 05:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020721111153.KEF6023.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:11:53 +0000 Message-ID: <3D3A96F4.9000908@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th Century French lady References: <3D291345.8050104@attbi.com> <02e701c22638$5a1a6ae0$6401a8c0@home.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050409080805000105050201" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 04:11:48 -0700 Status: RO --------------050409080805000105050201 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Fenwick wrote: >>I'm slowly working on my SCA 14th century French lady costumes. It >>dawn on me that I know I have to have the chemise, but was there any >>other underclothing - breast binding, underwear, so on. >> > >Apparently not. My lady also found that the sleeveless chemise gives better mobility in a tight gown/cote than the sleeved ones do. The support comes from the kirtle. > But I thought the kirtle was the gown. Roscelin --------------050409080805000105050201 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Fenwick wrote:
I'm slowly working on my SCA 14th century French lady costumes.  It
dawn on me that I know I have to have the chemise, but was there any
other underclothing - breast binding, underwear, so on.

Apparently not.  My lady also found that the sleeveless chemise gives better mobility in a tight gown/cote than the sleeved ones do.  The support comes from the kirtle.
But I thought the kirtle was the gown.

Roscelin
--------------050409080805000105050201-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:44:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07364 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:44:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJSxE09743; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJSgG17019; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LBSwG10959 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 05:28:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020721112852.OLZ6023.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:28:52 +0000 Message-ID: <3D3A9AEF.6070505@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th Century French lady References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 04:28:47 -0700 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >On Sun, 7 Jul 2002, Rose Amberwulf wrote: >I have never found any solid indication of any underwear other than the >chemise in this place and time. > I've thought about making bloomers even if they are not period. I hate the darn chaffing of the thighs and wearing panty hose during an outdoor weekend is just not that much fun. :( Of course, I would not enter the bloomers in the costume competition. >The only reference I've heard to breast bindings is one oft-quoted complaint from a cleric writing in (I think?) the 12th century, who may or may not be an accurate source on typical women's wear. > That would be interesting to know why he wrote whatever. It seems out of place. > I know of no written references to bust-support garments in the 14th century. At the same time, visual images abound that show nursing Madonnas or other half-dressed women who clearly are wearing only the chemise under their dress, so this is probably more likely to be the norm. > It has been mentioned and shown that German women may have worn sleeveless chemises during the 14th century - could French or English women also wear this type of chemise at times? >From a practical standpoint, I've found the fitted dress (kirtle, cotte) >offers plenty of support, and in my experience would probably not work >anywhere near as well in the fitting if there were another support garment underneath. > Especially I suppose when a lady is well endowed/gifted. ;) I was going to try to cut out my own kirtle myself, but thought better of that. So, Kat is going to help me with the cutting and fitting. >As to underwear below the waist, I would not rule out the possibility of >some wrapping or panty-style arrangement during the menstrual period >(there are a few documentary references to "menstrual cloths"). But for >normal wear, the norm and expectation seems to be that there was nothing >under the chemise. In bawdy tales, women need only lift their dresses to >allow their lovers swift access, or men take women by surprise by lifting >their skirts. This image occurs in pictures as well as writing. Again, >from a practical standpoint, it's a royal nuisance to use a toilet when >you're wearing underwear beneath long, full skirts, and that nuisance >would be compounded to near impossibility with a chamberpot. By contrast, >without the encumbrance of underwear, chamberpot use in full skirts would >be simple -- straddle and squat. > Makes a lot of sense. I sure know what it is like to have to use the ladies room, and having to hike up all my layers of gowns, etc. >Several times on this list, someone has brought up a particular English >misericorde showing a woman donning what looks like boxer shorts. Given >that many misericordes illustrate proverbs, and also that they often show >role reversals or disruptions of the social order, I would be more >inclined to see that as an illustration of an anomaly meant to be >obviously ridiculous -- the woman "wearing the pants." Other than that >particular image, the references to menstrual cloths, and a sealskin pad >tied over the crotch of one of the Greenland corpses (which may have been >for either incontinence or menstrual bleeding), I know of no visual or >written evidence for 14th century female underwear. > The other thing I have thought of sewing for underwear is the same thing a man of the 14th century wore. I wish I could think of the name of those under pants. I'm actually going to make a few pair for my own 14th century man. >I'd love to hear something more solid if it's out there, but at this point I'd guess that even if some exception pops up, the vast majority of >evidence still points to chemise-only as the norm. > Thank you, Robin, for your help. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:45:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07368 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:44:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJTUE09773; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:29:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJSmG17077; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LBsCG15102 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 05:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020721115407.IOCP8192.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:54:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3D3AA0D9.6070401@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 04:54:01 -0700 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: > >Just to clarify: The method I teach is for fitting the dress itself, not a chemise. I recommend a chemise that is not very full but is not fitted >either. I have seen no indication of a fitted chemise or a chemise that >laces up the front in this period, and I've looked at quite a few images >of chemises. Also, I've found that lining the dress helps substantially >with the fitting and support, and I can't see lining a chemise. > Thank you for the clarification. Can you explain why a lined dress helps with the fitting and the support? To me it seems it would make it less fitten. But remember I am some what a beginning seamstress. >But you're not the first person I've heard applying my methods to fit a >chemise. If that works for you and for your desired level of authenticity,great! I just want to make sure people know that using a fitted chemise as a support layer is not an approach I would suggest as historically accurate for 14th-century France. > I definetly want be as historically accurate, since I would be entering the costume in competion. >With this I agree wholeheartedly. Most illustrations I've seen of chemises (mostly in French and Flemish art) indicate the presence of sleeves. The only sleeveless sources I've seen are the supposed 14th-c. German chemise in Kohler (provenance uncertain and now apparently lost) and some images in the Wenceslaus Bible (Bohemia). That suggests to me the possibility that sleeveless chemises, if worn, were specific to that part of the Continent. (We recently had an extensive discussion on the list about this that should be available in the archives.) > I would more than likely would wear the sleeveles chemise during the hot summers, and not enter it in any competition (unless I can actually prove that there was such a thing for my persona). >Personally, I've found the dress to be more comfortable on the arms with a layer of chemise as cushioning. Think of it as a sock under a shoe -- it minimizes chafing. If you wear a dress with a tight sleeve directly over your arm, it rubs against your skin when you move. If you have a chemise layer, the rubbing occurs between the dress fabric and the chemise, while the chemise itself stays put against your skin. I make my chemise sleeves rather narrow, use a fairly thin linen (not cotton!), and fit the sleeves over the chemise with my arm bent midway between straight and fully flexed. > Great advice. Thanks, Robin. Roscelin > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:45:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07372 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:45:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJT8E09752; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJSkG17055; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LBgOG13211 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 05:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020721114219.SHV6023.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:42:19 +0000 Message-ID: <3D3A9E16.2090807@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady References: <20020708144335.37431.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 04:42:14 -0700 Status: RO Tasha Kelly wrote: >If you make your chemise very close-fitting and laceable (up the front), you can easily and comfortably acquire the profile of a Gothic lady in a >tight-fitting dress (see Robin Netherton's extensive notes on this subject) -- all while achieving good bosum support. I also have finally found the correct shaping of the pattern on myself so that the sleeves >do not have to be tight. > I hadn't seen any laceable chemises. But, that would make sense. I thought it was proper for the sleeves to be tight (of course, not too tight). >Yes, you can make sleeveless chemises with thin shoulder straps, but the biggest downside to that might be a lack of underarm protection. Do we really want our nice kirtles and cotes coming in direct contact with our fragrant underarms? > How true. I can see myself wearing the sleeveless chemises during the summer with my linen kirtles. But if I was to wear silk kirtles, then I would wear the sleeved chemises. >The support on a sleeved chemise is done entirely with a very tight fit immediately under the bosum, a bit of shaping of the panels covering the bosum, and the shoulder seams holding the whole thing up. When laced, >the chemise does an excellent job of holding my not-small bosum in place and it stays there all day long with no discomfort. All that is to say you do not need breast binding. > The first time I made this type of dress is when I used the Simplicity pattern. I won't do that again. Thank you for the advice. >As for underwear, even though we are still debating that issue for women, you could attempt authenticity by mimicking the male version of underwear for that time period. > Those are the ones I mentioned earlier in a message. I still can't think of what they are called. >Let's face it -- chafing is a real issue -- as real as the desire for bosum support when one's bosum is large. It does not make sense to me that women walked around constantly with sore inner thighs. > Been there, done that. Not ever again. :( > Unfortunately, I can't give you detailed documentation for female undies at this time (no research done yet... anyone else?), but there are some attempts by costume historians to explain and replicate male >undies. Perhaps begin with those. > Thanks, Marcele, for your help and insights. Roscelin de Limoges _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:45:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07380 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:45:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJTLE09762; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:29:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJStG17121; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01bw.bigpond.com (mta01bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.78]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LBwHG15742 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 05:58:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.84]) by mta01bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta01bw May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id GZLL8Y00.48B for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:58:10 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.6 ([203.54.114.6]) by bwmam06.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 47/17004537); 21 Jul 2002 21:58:05 Message-ID: <3D3B91F1.37132732@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] documentation for diapers before 1600? References: <4.3.1.2.20020719032043.00d50100@mail.frys.com> <001001c22f20$151d5ce0$cb4bb440@bc.hsia.telus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:02:41 -0700 Status: RO Could they be swaddling cloths? I've always imagined them somewhat like bandages and that looks kind of like a basket of bandages.... Claire Desamona Villani wrote: > try this link instead. It gives you the option of standard or GIANT size. > The picture it'self is called, Adoration of the Magi, by Pieter Aertsen. > The basket in question is in the lower right hand corner if you are looking > at the painting. And the painting is about three magi presenting thier gifts > to the infant Jesus. Right beside Mary, there is a basket. In the basket > are a BUNCH of folded cloths. They look to be too small to be cloths to > wrap his whole body in (for warmth), so my thought was that they might be > period diapers. > > http://www.artcyclopedia.com/r/aertsen_pieter.html > > Sorry! Didn't mean to be ambiguous! > Brandy > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:45:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07381 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:45:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJTDE09757; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:29:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJSpG17096; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta04bw.bigpond.com (mta04bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.87]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LBumG15536 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 05:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.84]) by mta04bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta04bw May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id GZLL6G00.AT6 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:56:40 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.6 ([203.54.114.6]) by bwmam06.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 47/17002759); 21 Jul 2002 21:56:35 Message-ID: <3D3B9197.EC360455@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooray for mothers, was Re: shop and home economics References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:01:11 -0700 Status: RO Sarah Lorraine wrote: > I think my mom encouraged the historical costuming thing intitially > because it got me to focus on something *other* than boys. Of course, > the result is that now I have a house littered with fabric and > unfinished costumes, where as I might have had a house littered with > sexy men... Right? ;-) > > Maybe if you made costumes for men you could have both....:-) Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:52:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07403 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:52:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJUAE09888; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJU5G17457; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJQoG16439 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id MAA22311 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:46:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207211946.MAA22311@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian fancy dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO >Sorry people, the address needs a capital C - > >www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/Costume > >Apologies to those who couldn't find the page. Clicking on the Jester's Outfit links produces a File Not Found. The two things I can think of are: you have spaces in the filename (bad for unix systems) or you haven't set the permissions on the files correctly and therefore we can't access them. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 15:55:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07419 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:55:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJg8E10487; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:42:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJg7G20623; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJfXG20463 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id NAA22901 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:01:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207212001.NAA22901@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > > My experience with Home Ec in 7th grade sounds a lot like Kat's. One > semester of cooking (extremely boring: white sauce, pumpkin pie) and > one of sewing (everyone else made an A-line skirt, I had to be > different so I made box pleats in pink and white gingham). This was > in the mid 1960s and no one DREAMED of girls taking shop or boys > taking Home Ec in THAT school. As late as 1982, I was told that I couldn't take woodshop. Actually, the shop teacher simply told me on the first day, "Girls don't belong in shop." And made it clear by the second day that he wasn't going to help _me_ learn to use the power tools. The guidance councilor wanted me to tough it out, except that the administration wasn't going to come down on the instructor, so I'd have spent a semester getting abuse from both the boys in the class _and_ the teacher. I told the guidance councilor where he could stuff that idea and took graphic arts instead. That class actually taught me some skills that were useful in later life. I have since learned to use woodworking tools, some from my father, and some from my uncle who was a master carpenter. Now, if my uncle the ultimate Texas redneck didn't see anything wrong with my doing woodworking, I _still_ don't understand why the schools have so much trouble with this. [Before you talk about sexual discrimination laws here in the US, keep in mind that before 1986 it was perfectly legal for schools to restrict students from taking a class simply because of their gender] My first sewing project was when I was about 4. Mother had done my room up in hideous pink chiffon. I always hated pink. But the foofy material looked like it would be _perfect_ for a doll dress. Mother replaced the pillow sham, then never again allowed me to have scissors unsupervised. ;} Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 16:04:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07442 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:04:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LJp7E10972; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:51:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJp5G22927; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:51:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LJnoG22632 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id NAA23230 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:09:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207212009.NAA23230@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooray for mothers, was Re: shop and home economics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Claire Clarke wrote: > >Maybe if you made costumes for men you could have both....:-) Nah, you gotta get the men to _stay still_ long enough to do fittings. In my experience, most men don't have the patience for tailored clothing. I've gotten Jody to stay still long enough to do the marching band jacket, but never got to take the darts in the back, because I haven't gotten him to _be still_ long enough to put it on him and baste the darts down. So it's still big on him (but at least I got the first fitting so the arms and torso are long enough). Ah, and he did stay still long enough for me to measure and fit him for the waistcoat I made for him. George-of-the-amazingly-long-arms won't stay still even long enough for me to do a muslin on him. Since he's 6'5", the only way he's gonna get a fancy waistcoat is for me to make him one. But that would mean he'd have to BE STILL long enough for me to whip together a muslin, fit it on him, then check the fit. The quickie doublet I did for him years ago had problems because he was too impatient to let me do the whole process... which means the stupid thing was too short (I wasn't as good at estimating in things like an allowance for tall guys who slouch back then). He'll get his silk vest when I can get him to 1) decide on which pattern 2) will go to the fabric store with me to pick the fabric 3) will be still long enough for me to do a proper fitting for him. Which means it isn't gonna happen anytime soon. ;} Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 18:25:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07873 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:25:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LMB6E17326; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LMB2G25269; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LM8cG24715 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:08:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 95D4F10F2AF for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <016401c23103$15ace330$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: synthetic lavender brocade Italian? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0161_01C230E1.8E241760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:08:02 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C230E1.8E241760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D944174176&r=3D0&t=3D= 0&showTutorial=3D0&ed=3D0&indexURL=3D0&rd=3D1 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Azelana@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@net.indra.com=20 Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:44 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: synthetic lavender brocade Italian? Well, I'd love to check it out. I do wear synthetic, but mostly I = just wanna see your work, Diane. What's the link? --Gillian <<[snippage] But I did finish my lavender brocade Italian!! I put it = up on eBay though--it's beautiful. but it's synthetic, and I just don't want to = wear it now. You all have infected me!>> ]=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C230E1.8E241760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D944174= 176&r=3D0&t=3D0&showTutorial=3D0&ed=3D0&indexURL=3D0&= amp;rd=3D1
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Azelana@aol.com=20
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 = 9:44=20 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: synthetic = lavender=20 brocade Italian?

Well, I'd love to check it out.  I do wear = synthetic,=20 but mostly I just wanna see your work, Diane.  What's the=20 link?

--Gillian

<<[snippage] But I did finish my = lavender=20 brocade Italian!! I put it up on eBay
though--it's beautiful. but = it's=20 synthetic, and I just don't want to wear it
now. You all have = infected=20 me!>>


] ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C230E1.8E241760-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 18:52:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07953 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:52:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LMd7E18533; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:39:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LMd2G02065; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LMc9G01877 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 75DA010F06D for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <025901c23107$35081750$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <000c01c2306f$73d2e7a0$9865fea9@jeanne> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:37:33 -0400 Status: RO I thank my lucky stars that I DID thank my mom for teaching me when I did--I didn't expect to lose her so soon. But the best thing ever was when she saw a quilt I had made just for her and said "And to think I discouraged you from using my scraps for your Barbies..." The pleasure she got from that quilt---and this from a woman who could make ANYTHING. She made my dad a denim jacket that looked better than anything Levi ever produced, a burgundy velvet smoking jacket, and a million other things. We once spent a week together making a life-size cloth doll. Oh, and she could cook, too. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanne Harney" To: Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing, England vs US, > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > > > > But the very best thing is still if you can learn to sew from your mom :-) > > Unless, as a child, you think it's stupid and boring. But she makes you > learn anyway. > Then, 20 years later, you fall to your knees and thank her because you never > knew how valuable her lessons were...and she's shocked. Thank heavens she's > still here so I could thank her in person. > > Jeanne > who always wanted "store" clothes and got homemade. Now has store clothes > and is thrilled when she has time to make "homemade". > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 19:10:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08015 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:10:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LMvAE19297; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LMv2G06464; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LMuoG06421 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:56:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OhRFy/oZXdmNxP64gEVeeZQ="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G8AC8PHD; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:56:18 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady Message-ID: <20020721.155513.-217645.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,11-13 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:22:27 +0000 Status: RO > >Let's face it -- chafing is a real issue -- as real as the desire > for bosum support when one's bosum is large. It does not make sense > to me that women walked around constantly with sore inner thighs. > > > Been there, done that. Not ever again. :( One thing that can help with that has zip nada to do with costuming but a lot to do with over-the-counter remedies. I use Lotromin, which is ostensibly an athlete's foot cream. It really helps discourage chafing, rashes and prickly heat in those delicate places you ladies have mentioned. I am told Gold Bond, which is a medicated OTC powder, also works well. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 19:13:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08022 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:13:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6LN09E19450; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6LN09G07118; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:00:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40208.mail.yahoo.com (web40208.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6LMv8G06480 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020721225703.47340.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.21.68] by web40208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:57:03 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207211930.g6LJUCG17513@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Roscelin wrote: "It has been mentioned and shown that German women may have worn sleeveless chemises during the 14th century - could French or English women also wear this type of chemise at times?" Apparently Italian women did... There's a painting of a large group crowded around a birth bed, and a lady, possibly a wet nurse, is sitting in the foreground. She has a sleeveless chemise with a belt secured tightly under her breasts, as though to provide some support. Can't remember the painting's name or artist, though, at the moment. Robin wrote: >From a practical standpoint, I've found the fitted dress (kirtle, cotte) >offers plenty of support, and in my experience would probably not work >anywhere near as well in the fitting if there were another support garment underneath. A fitted chemise with lacing to help give support underneath a fitted kirtle works very well, as I use them regularly (and am actually sitting here typing in such an outfit right now! -- Just came back from an SCA gathering..). And, yes, I've been amply 'gifted' and I'll leave it at that. But, that doesn't mean that my laced, bust-supporting chemises are actually truly period. As has been pointed out (by Robin), there's no good, solid evidence that chemises were, in fact, laced up for support while there is plenty of evidence to the contrary (note those nursing Madonna portraits -- you can see the white chemise stretched below the breast, one solid panel of fabric, no lacing). At some point I'll have to attempt a non-supporting chemise with a fitted kirtle and see if I get adequate support. I don't think I should HAVE to line the kirtle for it to work, as there's plenty of pictorial evidence that suggests these fitted dresses weren't always lined. As it stands, I get decent support from one layer of lightweight linen (the chemise) that is then bolstered by another layer (the kirtle). >from a practical standpoint, it's a royal nuisance to use a toilet when >you're wearing underwear beneath long, full skirts, and that nuisance >would be compounded to near impossibility with a chamberpot. Please allow devil's advocacy for a moment... the nuisance, in my experience, is lifting and moving the voluminous skirts out of the way. I have grown accustomed to swiftly pulling down whatever underclothes I have on before doing my business in the bathroom (or more often in the dreaded portapotty), all while holding the skirts bunched up around my waist (sorry for the vivid visuals, folks! Really, this IS an intellectual discussion! ) I find that the all-day-long benefit of having no chafing problem far outweighs the annoyance of the couple of times a day one must pull the "anti-chafing device" (as it's called around these parts) out of the way to use the bathroom. Even if it might not have been socially acceptable for women to wear underwear in this period we're discussing, I'm betting there were those who just did anyway, for their own reasons. Who was to know? Hey... maybe in period women built up leather-like callouses on their inner thighs! Roscelin wrote: "I wish I could think of the name of those under pants. I'm actually going to make a few pair for my own 14th century man." Do you mean braes? --Enjoying this discussion, as sporadic as it may be, Marcele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 20:16:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08322 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:16:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M036E22007; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:03:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M035G22248; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M02YG22113 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:02:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AC2F1A101C8; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:05:03 -0500 Message-ID: <004001c23113$2096f960$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020719.073047.-217645.0.Cley@juno.com> <006001c22fb3$4e408d60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:02:53 -0400 Status: RO Linda, It sounds like you made a popular baby doll dress. It sounds like a pattern I have. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Krecker-Schkred" To: Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics > At 2:04 AM -0400 7/20/02, Penny Ladnier wrote: > >Did anyone make something in home ec that they could wear? In my first > >class we made a jumper. > > by the time I had Home Ec in 7th grade, I had been sewing for about 7 > years. I chose to make a short pinafore dress with matching panties > (It was that short) with a one way design fabric. The pattern had 16 > pieces. I only cut one piece upside down. And I wore that dress for > the rest of the year. > > Linda K-S > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 20:32:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08564 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:32:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M0JAE22649; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:19:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M0J2G25857; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M0GJG25288 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-001mosloup065.dialsprint.net ([168.191.109.49] helo=hppav) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17WQs4-0006u5-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:16:16 -0400 Message-ID: <03ff01c23115$5d49ff40$316dbfa8@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Re:shop & home ec Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:18:53 -0500 Status: RO What did you make? In 4H a skirt and drawstring apron. Turned out rather cute and I won a prize at the county fair. My first project in home ec was a straight skirt in peacock blue wool(made it too small). One of the last was a linen A-line jumper with an inverted pleat in the front. Even my mother couldn't get in to hang straight. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 20:41:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08581 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:41:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M0S5E22918; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M0S4G28017; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f95.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.95]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M0P8G27297 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:25:03 -0700 Received: from 65.67.60.97 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:25:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.67.60.97] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Chafing (was:Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2002 00:25:03.0333 (UTC) FILETIME=[38E46950:01C23116] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:25:03 +0000 Status: RO I'm not sure I'd want to use Lotrimin that close to parts that have a specific anti-fungal cream for them - Gyne Lotrimin. But maybe I'm too paranoid. Personally, I use plain old Cornstarch. It has to be reapplied periodically, but it WORKS. Mary/Katerine >One thing that can help with that has zip nada to do with costuming but a >lot to do with over-the-counter remedies. I use Lotromin, which is >ostensibly an athlete's foot cream. It really helps discourage chafing, >rashes and prickly heat in those delicate places you ladies have >mentioned. I am told Gold Bond, which is a medicated OTC powder, also >works well. > > > Arlys > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 21:38:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08877 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:38:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M1O4E24935; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M1O2G10754; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M1NsG10716 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020722012348.WSMF26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:23:48 +0000 Message-ID: <00d901c2311e$6cf23df0$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <001b01c230d3$ad2aef20$6501a8c0@Home> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:23:46 -0700 Status: RO I often use synthetic fabrics in place of historically authentic due to price -- if I waited around to be able to afford silk, I'd never be able to make costumes! (Most of what I do is Victorian). So I'll often use high-quality synthetic taffetas etc. I think that sometimes people use cotton broadcloth rather than linen for Renaissance faires, SCA, etc., because it BREATHES. You wouldn't catch me at a California faire in a non-breathing fabric! I often use cotton broadcloth for Victorian undergarments (chemises, drawers, petticoats, etc.) exactly for that reason. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 21:45:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08987 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:45:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M1W3E25277; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M1W2G12504; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf05bis.bellsouth.net (mail305.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M1VaG12398 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sgrochoski ([216.76.153.216]) by imf05bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20020722013302.SOUJ1189.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@sgrochoski> for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:33:02 -0400 Message-ID: <00d301c2311f$2080e2e0$d8994cd8@sgrochoski> From: "Apollonia Margherita" To: References: <001b01c230d3$ad2aef20$6501a8c0@Home> <00d901c2311e$6cf23df0$befc8218@WERNTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:28:45 -0400 Status: RO You can get 100% silk, China Habitoi, for about $3.00 a yard from exotic silks. www.exoticsilks.com Apollonia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) > I often use synthetic fabrics in place of historically authentic due to > price -- if I waited around to be able to afford silk, I'd never be able to > make costumes! (Most of what I do is Victorian). So I'll often use > high-quality synthetic taffetas etc. > > I think that sometimes people use cotton broadcloth rather than linen for > Renaissance faires, SCA, etc., because it BREATHES. You wouldn't catch me > at a California faire in a non-breathing fabric! I often use cotton > broadcloth for Victorian undergarments (chemises, drawers, petticoats, etc.) > exactly for that reason. > > - Kendra > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 21:51:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09029 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:51:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M1c4E25452; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M1c2G13746; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M1bBG13584 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020722013705.XFBQ26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:37:05 +0000 Message-ID: <00ea01c23120$47dd86d0$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <001b01c230d3$ad2aef20$6501a8c0@Home> <00d901c2311e$6cf23df0$befc8218@WERNTO> <00d301c2311f$2080e2e0$d8994cd8@sgrochoski> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:37:03 -0700 Status: RO Right -- but I was thinking of dress silks, eg duchesse satin, taffeta, etc. And for underpinnings, such as petticoats, China silk wouldn't work. - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Apollonia Margherita" To: Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) > You can get 100% silk, China Habitoi, for about $3.00 a yard from exotic > silks. www.exoticsilks.com > > Apollonia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kendra Van Cleave" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:23 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS > alleriges/reactions) > > > > I often use synthetic fabrics in place of historically authentic due to > > price -- if I waited around to be able to afford silk, I'd never be able > to > > make costumes! (Most of what I do is Victorian). So I'll often use > > high-quality synthetic taffetas etc. > > > > I think that sometimes people use cotton broadcloth rather than linen for > > Renaissance faires, SCA, etc., because it BREATHES. You wouldn't catch me > > at a California faire in a non-breathing fabric! I often use cotton > > broadcloth for Victorian undergarments (chemises, drawers, petticoats, > etc.) > > exactly for that reason. > > > > - Kendra > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 22:01:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09067 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:01:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M1l4E25815; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M1l2G15792; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf05bis.bellsouth.net (mail305.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M1iEG15241 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:44:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sgrochoski ([216.76.153.216]) by imf05bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20020722014541.SVZI1189.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@sgrochoski> for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:45:41 -0400 Message-ID: <00dc01c23120$e4996d90$d8994cd8@sgrochoski> From: "Apollonia Margherita" To: References: <001b01c230d3$ad2aef20$6501a8c0@Home> <00d901c2311e$6cf23df0$befc8218@WERNTO> <00d301c2311f$2080e2e0$d8994cd8@sgrochoski> <00ea01c23120$47dd86d0$befc8218@WERNTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:41:24 -0400 Status: RO LOL I should've read the whole message... I didn't realize you were speaking of Victorian stuff.... BTW, all their silks are that cheap... Apollonia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) > Right -- but I was thinking of dress silks, eg duchesse satin, taffeta, etc. > And for underpinnings, such as petticoats, China silk wouldn't work. > > - Kendra > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Apollonia Margherita" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 6:28 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS > alleriges/reactions) > > > > You can get 100% silk, China Habitoi, for about $3.00 a yard from exotic > > silks. www.exoticsilks.com > > > > Apollonia > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kendra Van Cleave" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS > > alleriges/reactions) > > > > > > > I often use synthetic fabrics in place of historically authentic due to > > > price -- if I waited around to be able to afford silk, I'd never be able > > to > > > make costumes! (Most of what I do is Victorian). So I'll often use > > > high-quality synthetic taffetas etc. > > > > > > I think that sometimes people use cotton broadcloth rather than linen > for > > > Renaissance faires, SCA, etc., because it BREATHES. You wouldn't catch > me > > > at a California faire in a non-breathing fabric! I often use cotton > > > broadcloth for Victorian undergarments (chemises, drawers, petticoats, > > etc.) > > > exactly for that reason. > > > > > > - Kendra > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 21 22:39:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09456 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:39:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M2Q9E27635; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M2Q6G24609; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M2NMG24099 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.80.1eb5c225 (4562) for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:23:12 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <80.1eb5c225.2a6cc690@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: window pane muslin To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:23:12 EDT Status: RO I have found similar curtains at Pier One and Restoration Hardware. (The latter is more pricey, I think.) I made an early 19th century gown with a peach silk twill undergown and am very pleased with the results. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 00:54:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10135 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:54:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M4d4E03551; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M4d2G24304; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M4baG23995 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.251]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020722043730.DEXK24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:37:30 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020721233718.03296830@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blackwork shirt c1585-1600 Museum of Costume, Bath In-Reply-To: <001401c22e66$b74e5060$6501a8c0@Home> References: <20020718134212.6320.qmail@web40001.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:40:28 -0500 Status: RO At 07:23 AM 7/18/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Oh, one more thing-if you can't go there to look more closely at it, >would the embroidery motifs in QEWU in crimson work? There are bugs, >monsters, snails, birds etc. Not an exact replica I know.... I saw that shirt while I was in Bath. The embroidery reminded me very much of the patterns found in "A Schole-House for the Needle" Produced from the original book printed in 1632 and now in the private collection of John and Elizabeth Mason. ISBN 1 872665 72 1 I bought the book from the Embroiderer's Guild shop at Hampton Court. The shirt with the red embroidery in the V&A has the exact patterns from this book so if you want embroidery pattern inspiration you might try there. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 01:34:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10265 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M5L4E04971; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M5L3G03403; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M5JJG02992 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25158 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:44:11 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th Century French lady In-Reply-To: <3D3A9AEF.6070505@attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:44:11 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO > Daniel Fenwick wrote: > >Apparently not. My lady also found that the sleeveless chemise gives > >better mobility in a tight gown/cote than the sleeved ones do. The > >support comes from the kirtle. Rose asked: > But I thought the kirtle was the gown. Yes. There is no standard term. Daniel is saying the same thing I was saying -- that the chemise does not give support, but the dress/kirtle/gown/cote does. (I myself haven't had a problem with mobility with sleeved chemises, though.) Rose added, in another message: > I've thought about making bloomers even if they are not period. I hate > the darn chaffing of the thighs and wearing panty hose during an > outdoor weekend is just not that much fun. Ow! Pantyhose would be *awful*. I haven't found the need for anything here, but I don't have a chafing problem. Still, we tend to have more intense heat to deal with now than the medieval people did. I'm sure other factors, such as leg-shaving or overweight, contribute to the problem for some people today. I don't think anyone can fault you for taking a nondocumentable solution to a practical health/comfort problem that may itself be more modern. > >The only reference I've heard to breast bindings is one oft-quoted > >complaint from a cleric writing in (I think?) the 12th century, who > >may or may not be an accurate source on typical women's wear. > That would be interesting to know why he wrote whatever. It seems out > of place. It's been a while since I've seen the reference, and now I can't lay my hands on it. (It's not my usual period.) I think his objection was to women trying to make themselves more attractive, somehow -- maybe it had to do with wearing bindings to fit into tighter dresses. That would coincide with an era of fitted torsos as a new style (which received much clerical censure). But don't quote me on that. I'd have to find the reference again to be sure. (Does anyone else have it handy?) > It has been mentioned and shown that German women may have worn > sleeveless chemises during the 14th century - could French or English > women also wear this type of chemise at times? (I believe I expressed my thoughts on this question earlier in this thread, about two weeks ago, in response to another response to your first post on this subject line. If you missed that post, email me directly, or check the archives.) To repeat, I can't think of a sleeveless chemise image from France/Flanders/England from this period, although I've seen quite a few sleeved ones. I would personally not extrapolate the common use of sleeveless chemises in Franco-Flemish fashion based on the possible use in Germany/Bohemia (for which there is very slim evidence -- the Wenceslaus Bible in Bohemia, and an now-missing extant presumably German garment that may or may not have been be properly identified as to time, place, and purpose). But I'm picky. We discussed this at more length not long ago. Look in the archives under "14th c. Italian chemise documentation," around June 11. (Every time I mention archives, there's a flurry of queries, so here's the URL: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives ) > Especially I suppose when a lady is well endowed/gifted. ;) I was > going to try to cut out my own kirtle myself, but thought better of > that. So, Kat is going to help me with the cutting and fitting. It really does help to have a second person to do the fitting! Before you start, you might want to look over my past posts on this topic. Go to . You might find the workshop handout useful too. > The other thing I have thought of sewing for underwear is the same > thing a man of the 14th century wore. I wish I could think of the name > of those under pants. I'm actually going to make a few pair for my > own 14th century man. Sounds like you mean braies? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 02:57:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11063 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:57:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M6i9E07465; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M6i2G19569; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inje.iskon.hr (inje.iskon.hr [213.191.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M6gEG19178 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jkale.public.srce.hr (st01-138.dialin.iskon.hr [213.202.66.139]) by mail.iskon.hr (8.11.4/8.11.4/Iskon 8.11.3-1) with ESMTP id g6M6g8N05677 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:42:09 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020722085452.00a92cb0@jagor.srce.hr> X-Sender: jkale@jagor.srce.hr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jadran Kale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] news article: lethal lack of cloacks Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:57:59 +0200 Status: RO NYT, July 12, 2002 A Few Saudis Defy a Rigid Islam to Debate Their Own Intolerance By NEIL MacFARQUHAR (...) But the most controversial change followed the fire at a Mecca girls' school, which was housed, like many, in a converted apartment building of dubious construction. Press reports said 15 girls had died after men from the country's religious vice squads blocked male rescuers from entering and girls from fleeing because they lacked their enveloping cloaks. The government denied the reports. But during the ensuing outcry it shifted responsibility for women's education from a special presidency supervised by the clergy to the Ministry of Education, which calls it merely an administrative shift. (...) http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/12/international/middleeast/12SAUD.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 03:10:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17987 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:10:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M6vAE07835; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M6v3G21960; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M6tlG21730 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:55:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25439 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:20:40 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady In-Reply-To: <20020721225703.47340.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:20:40 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO I responded to Rose's earlier post just a little while ago, and then I got a large pile of additional mail. I'm batching my replies to several posts here, as they're on the same topic... I wrote: > >Also, I've found that lining the dress helps substantially > >with the fitting and support, and I can't see lining a chemise. > Thank you for the clarification. Can you explain why a lined dress > helps with the fitting and the support? To me it seems it would make > it less fitten. But remember I am some what a beginning seamstress. The lining adds a great deal of strength and takes much of the stress off the outer (visible) layer. One big advantage here is that the resulting garment is more durable, both because the individual seams are not as stressed, and because the insides of all the seams are covered. The hem lasts a lot longer, too. Given that the average woman (even many noblewomen) would have as little as one or two of these dresses for daily wear, durability is a huge issue. I've also found that the lining is more likely to wear out over time than the outer fabric, and the lining (or parts thereof) can be replaced easily. As to construction, actually easier to fit with a lining, because I fit the lining first, and then cut the outer fabric to match. Because the lining seams are already oriented correctly during fitting, there's no need to fit backwards and then turn the fitted garment inside-out. (I've gone into more detail about this in the past; you'll find that discussion in my collected notes on my web page.) Lining improves other aspects of construction, too, such as lacing holes (because you have two layers already in place) and neckline (as you don't need to face the opening or turn an edge under and tack it). Once I started using linings routinely, I also found that the finished dress looks better, with a smoother surface. An ideal combination is a linen lining with a wool outerlayer. The linen is very strong and supportive; the wool is more flexible, and does not show the stress lines that are visible in the linen alone. I was not surprised to find that the combination of wool-garment-with-linen-lining appears in documents of this period. (My impression is that this is the most commonly mentioned combination, but I haven't done a serious documentary study.) Roscelin wrote: > "It has been mentioned and shown that German women may have worn > sleeveless chemises during the 14th century - could French or English > women also wear this type of chemise at times?" Tasha answered: > Apparently Italian women did... There's a painting of a large group > crowded around a birth bed, and a lady, possibly a wet nurse, is > sitting in the foreground. She has a sleeveless chemise with a belt > secured tightly under her breasts, as though to provide some support. > Can't remember the painting's name or artist, though, at the moment. Someone posted a link to this image to the list around July 8 or 9. I don't have the link still, but you'll find it in the archives. The subject line was "Picture of Sleeveless Italian Chemise." We had some discussion about it at the time. Tasha added: > At some point I'll have to attempt a non-supporting chemise with a > fitted kirtle and see if I get adequate support. I don't think I > should HAVE to line the kirtle for it to work, as there's plenty of > pictorial evidence that suggests these fitted dresses weren't always > lined. As it stands, I get decent support from one layer of > lightweight linen (the chemise) that is then bolstered by another > layer (the kirtle). It sounds like, in essence, your fitted chemise is providing the layer of support that I would provide with a lining. That is, both your method and mine use two fitted layers to achieve the necessary degree of support. If you use a non-supporting chemise and rely on the dress to provide all your support, I think you will find that you fare better with a lining than without one. That has certainly been my experience -- and I've done it both ways. Yes, you can get adequate support with a single-layer gown. I started out routinely making these dresses unlined, so I know it's possible. But after seeing the difference the lining makes in ease of construction, degree of support, "smoothness" of look, and durability, I now would never recommend skipping the lining. If you're concerned about expense, consider using a lining just down to the thighs. The bottom edge of the lining won't bulge as long as it cuts off below the fitted area. Your trade-off is hem durability and, in some cases, a certain quality in the skirt drape. But there's no loss of functionality in the top half of the dress. I have no way to guess whether this was or wasn't done in period, but it is a useful workaround for costumers on a tight budget. Can you clarify what you mean by "pictorial evidence that suggests these fitted dresses weren't always lined"? I'd be really interested to see this. I can think of plenty of images in which it's impossible to tell whether there's a lining, but none in which it's clear that a dress is *not* lined. (Lining need not be a contrasting color; I sometimes self-line with the same fabric.) I'm not sure how the lack of a lining would be clear -- perhaps an open dress with an obvious turn-under on the inside of the opening? (And if so, can we trust artists to know what the inside of the dress looked like?) Of course, we certainly can't know if lining was done routinely. It's reasonable to think that there was a range of practice. My sense, though, is that on the fitted dresses, lining was probably the norm, for the practical reasons I've stated above, and also because of documentary evidence. It is right around this time that linings start to be mentioned commonly in documentary accounts. (I picked that tidbit up from one of Christopher Dyer's books -- probably "Standards of Living in the Later Middle Ages.") I think it is no coincidence that this increase in references to lining occurs at the same time as the new style of close fitting. The other potential source pool, extant garments, has (to my knowledge) been of little help in helping us determine the frequency of lining. Deliberately preserved garments (e.g. church artifacts, relics) have often been conserved/remade over time, so any lining may be a later replacement or addition. Found artifacts from this period are typically too fragmentary to tell, and generally only the wool part (commonly the outer fabric) is the only part to survive, as linen disintegrates under the conditions that preserve wool. I seem to recall some evidence of garment fragments that showed stitching holes that suggested the onetime presence of lining, but I'd have to go delving into files for the details. Perhaps Heather, who has a much better familiarity with extant garments, has a better read on this than I do. > >from a practical standpoint, it's a royal nuisance to use a toilet when > >you're wearing underwear beneath long, full skirts, and that nuisance > >would be compounded to near impossibility with a chamberpot. > > Please allow devil's advocacy for a moment... the nuisance, in my > experience, is lifting and moving the voluminous skirts out of the > way. I have grown accustomed to swiftly pulling down whatever > underclothes I have on before doing my business in the bathroom (or > more often in the dreaded portapotty), all while holding the skirts > bunched up around my waist (sorry for the vivid visuals, folks! > Really, this IS an intellectual discussion! ) And in the same spirit, I will continue the train of thought. :-) It is, as you've described, certainly possible with practice to use a modern sit-down facility (toilet, portapotty) in full skirts even if you're wearing drawers/panties/knickers. However, sit-down facilities, while known, were probably not the norm for medieval women. A chamberpot (or anything at ground level) requires you to squat, not sit. That means spreading the legs and balancing over them. If you've dropped a garment around your ankles, this maneuver is somewhere between difficult and impossible. This is why I made the distinction about chamberpots vs. toilets above. Sorry to have to be so graphic, but sitting and squatting are two different operations. (I am reminded of a modern female traveler's account of a long bus trip through a Middle Eastern desert. Periodically the bus would stop so that the passengers could relieve themselves. No facilities were available except the surrounding sand, apparently considered a natural litterbox. The men would line up alongside the bus and relieve themselves against it (!). The local women, all in long robes, would sink gracefully to the ground, skirts billowing around them, and then, after a few moments, would rise. The trousered American woman found herself in a tough spot! She found her chance later when the bus stopped so that the men could pray. They all unrolled their mats on the sand and bowed facing Mecca -- and she, behind them, did her business in haste while their backs were turned.) Crotchless drawers are certainly a possibility, and we know they were used in later periods. Still, they'd require some manipulation of the fabric under the full skirts, and given the absence of evidence for their existence at this time, I'd hesitate to hypothesize that they were used, much less used commonly. Please do understand that in bringing this up, I was not trying to suggest that a modern re-enactor *shouldn't* wear underwear if she feels so inclined, as long as she has access to a sit-down facility. The question, though, was not what works for modern re-enactors, but rather what did medieval women do. My point was that medieval women were very likely to need to be prepared to squat to relieve themselves, which would make the routine wear of underpants less likely. > Hey... maybe in period women built up leather-like callouses on their > inner thighs! Hmm. One thing we can be pretty sure of is that medieval women never shaved their inner thighs. Many modern women do, though. I have no idea if chafing correlates with shaving, but if it does, it was probably not nearly as common a problem medievally. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 03:51:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10765 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:51:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M7c6E08998; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M7c4G29457; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M7bXG29380 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722073733.61275.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:37:33 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:37:33 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Jean Waddie wrote: > Back at work at last and onto the pile of emails... (don't tell anyone that answer most of my mails at work, hey, it's convenient :-) > I would be delighted to go 90 miles for a weekend event. Probably not > for a day. But unfortunately we're talking minimum 300 for me to the > Midlands, Oh my! I forgot taht yes, Edinburgh is far away. I have never been to Scotland and would really like to. Maybe we should have a sewing meeting in Scotland ones. ;-) and by the time I've done that 6 or 7 times for events over > the summer, I really can't face it any more. Spend the summer > travelling and putting out for the tourists, then hibernate and nest > through the winter! Understandable. > By the way, when we first thought of forming an SCA group in Scotland, > the admin in the US suggested we just join our"local" group in > south-east England. OUCH!!!!! That would be.. what, 500 miles? Nicole in the South East ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 04:04:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA30770 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:04:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M7l9E09212; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:47:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M7l2G01279; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M7jJG01036 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:45:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722074517.95047.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:45:17 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <25232890892@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:45:17 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > I have a 90 minute journey (across London) to get to work each > day, but it's a regular public transport commute. Anything else, I'd > need Tom, or someone else with a car, to drive me... makes long > trips for one-day events kinda difficult/expensive/time-consuming > (half a day travelling for less than a couple of hours at the event etc) That's why I think it would be the best if it were possible at all to stay overnight. Something like arrive Sat morning and leave Sun afternoon. I spoke to Linda offlist about it, she remembered a lovely house in Oxfordshire. > News Nicole, a lot of small groups aren't on the web... Several ACK!!! *heart attack* Not online????? How can anyone live/survive/exist without the world and opportunities of the internet/email. I am not kidding here, I realy seriously cannot imagine. he world must be so small..... > of our existing memebers don't have email or webaccess, or do but > don't actually spend more than a few hours a month on it, if that. Oh my. Well, I had a similar shock when I heard from a whole piate group here in the UK where only ONE member has internet access. L'Age d'Or wouldn't exist without the internet, we're the CyberBaroques. :-)))) > That sort of group tends to advertise by word of mouth, paper fliers > and in publications. The CGUK has had a website for a number of > years but minimal information about the group not regularly updated > stuff about upcoming events due to time constraints on the people > who put up the websites (the current person is more web-minded > so is/has been redoing it (when she has time). I hope so, I don't want to miss out on great info. > Next time we organise a get-together, I can let you know. yes please! let us know on the list here so that everyone knows about it just in case. After all, usually it's ppl talking about american stuff, why not talk about UK or European stuff, there are ppl from all over here after all. :-) > Like "Costume Closet" a one day event which is coming up in > November (I'll get details) which Tom is organising as a prelude to > a weekend costume convention, called Wardrobe next year. Thanks, super, I'd love to know. > I just noticed that they also list the CGUK costume open-days > (about one every 3 months) on there > > Details of Costume closet are at > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WardrobeUK/files/Index.html Oh, warwick, that's okay, it's only Midlands, used to go there when I worked in the other company with the branch in Leamington Spa. > and of Wardrobe at > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WardrobeUK/files/Index.html > > in case any UK costumers are interested... Please note these are > *NOT* events for CGUK members only - they are open to anyone > interested in costume. Thanks Teddy, I love costumes, not only for re-enactment. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 04:06:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02036 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:06:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M7r9E09366; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M7r2G02438; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M7ocG01937 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722075037.3849.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:50:37 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <09b801c22f11$99c80fd0$0ec8a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:50:37 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- freyalyn wrote: > I'm also a member of the Costume Guild, but everything they do seems to > be down south. Really??? I haven't heard of anything, but then I haven't heard of any Costume Guild activities per se. The costume society of GB is certainly doing most of their stuff down here, bt it is understandable with the V&A in London... we are going to another late night view and talk on 18th c. deportment and clothing in August. > Another point of Americans being prepared to drive further and longer > than us here in the UK is that their petrol/gas is much cheaper. Our > public transport is expensive and a nightmare too! Very true, very true, it is SO expensive to drive anywhere, the petrol prices are still atrocious. We could do care sharing perhaps (uh, yeah,with a car full of costumes, hm... probably not. *sigh*) > Teddy, do you know of any people up here, in Yorkshire sort of area? I Oh yes, tanya from anmod dracan, she is costume mad and her sewing is to die for. > have been fascinated by costuming for ages, but have never made anything > except my wedding dress as I would never get to wear it - good old > Yorkshire thriftiness prevents me making anything with _no_ end use in > mind. you ahve to come to some re-enactments then! there are groups in yorkshir, definitely. which periods are you interested in? > Frustrated Freyalyn don't be frustrated dear, we will get you into costume :-))) Nicole - part-time mother-hen syndrome ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 04:07:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02272 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:07:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M7rLE09384; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M7rIG02500; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M7qrG02384 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722075252.1054.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:52:52 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:52:52 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- sustre@pixelations.com wrote: > I'm in the US myself, but I have a historically-minded friend in the > UK who would be interested in such a circle- we've just been > commiserating on our lack of sewing friends via email! So if > something happens with it, I'll let her know. > > -Amanda The problem I have is that i don't have a clue how to go about trying to hire a place! If anyone around here knew about that, it would help tremedously. Nicole - who really wnats to see this thing coming to life but needs a little help with things. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 04:12:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12537 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:12:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M7xBE09494; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M7x4G03656; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M7viG03411 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:57:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722075744.1301.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:57:44 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <1F44A7F5B45@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:57:44 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > Love the sound of it, Nicole. A couple of groups that I'm in have > similar things (The Far Isles Garb School and Needleworkers > Guilds have occasional get togethers to work on costume, and the > Costume guild UK has costume get togethers -sometimes at a hall > so there's plenty of space to lay out stuff for cutting without getting > in each other's way) Now how do they go about finding a venue that is cheap? I'd be happy with a village hall or something like that. I also know some more re-enactors who might be interested who are not on this list. > The problem is usually figuring out a time/date and location that > enough people can get to to make it worthwhile doing it. Exactly! > If you can get it together, I'd be interested. I'm good at making things happen (hey, I once managed to stage the rocky horror picture show, and I made my socity happen from scratch!) but I can't do it alone. I would need some help in the form of info, advice, perhaps from people who have organised such a thing before? It must be cheap or ppl won't come. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 04:15:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17869 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:15:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M823E09911; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M822G04209; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M7xKG03706 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:59:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722075919.84195.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:59:19 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020718111640.2280.qmail@web40014.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:59:19 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Rachel wrote: > Nicole > > This is a great idea. Count me in. I'm in Hertfordshire, but can travel. That;s super rachel, hertfordshire isn't to far away either. > My other half isn't > into living history at all and gets quite fed up with the endless round of > sewing and embroidery > that I tend to subject him to. Not to mention the risk of pins in the > carpet. it would make a grins8 i can imagine... mine just doesn't sew so i sit in my room and stitch along. great..... > wonderful change to sew with like-minded people. I enjoy it when our group > gets together at > events to sew, but that doesn't happen very often. absolutely, it would be wonderful and i think it would give a boost for a while to come. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 04:27:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21321 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:27:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M8E9E10385; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:14:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M8E2G06143; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40005.mail.yahoo.com (web40005.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.23]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M8CkG05907 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:12:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722081240.9917.qmail@web40005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:12:40 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020722075252.1054.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:12:40 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Nicole The alternative in the short-term is perhaps to host it in poeples homes, if they are willing. I for one would be able to put a few people up overnight, and as we live only 5-10 mins from a mainline railway station/M1/M25 and there is a convienient village hall just down the road as well. If we started in peoples homes, and rotated then at least we all get one time when we won't be having to travel. Let me know what you think. Rachel --- N Kipar wrote: > --- sustre@pixelations.com wrote: > I'm in the US myself, but I have a > historically-minded friend in the > > UK who would be interested in such a circle- we've just been > > commiserating on our lack of sewing friends via email! So if > > something happens with it, I'll let her know. > > > > -Amanda > > The problem I have is that i don't have a clue how to go about trying to hire a > place! If anyone around here knew about that, it would help tremedously. > > Nicole - who really wnats to see this thing coming to life but needs a little > help with things. > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 05:41:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21478 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M9PME12270; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:25:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M9PCG17852; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M9OdG17739 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722092438.90336.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:24:38 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020722081240.9917.qmail@web40005.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:24:38 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Rachel wrote: > Nicole > > The alternative in the short-term is perhaps to host it in poeples homes, if > they are willing. I > for one would be able to put a few people up overnight, and as we live only > 5-10 mins from a > mainline railway station/M1/M25 and there is a convienient village hall just > down the road as > well. I think this is a very good idea, if you were willing that would be great and get the thing going. The bigest issue is always to take the first step! > If we started in peoples homes, and rotated then at least we all get one time > when we won't be > having to travel. That would be wonderful. My problem is that our house is really tiny, three people and one cat in a teeny 1711 house, there is no way we have even floor space for one air bed... I have my sewing machine on a camping table in front of my chest of drawers. If I need socks I have to pull the machine away. All the best Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 05:48:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21500 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:48:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M9Z4E12537; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M9Z3G19714; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M9WIG19120 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:32:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKE4V1WPAO001GBZ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:32:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKE4V0LGBY001RUJ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:32:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:28:13 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:27:17 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:27:12 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] different (yellow) velvets In-reply-to: <200207211224.g6LCOdG20383@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <25217327161@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:27:12 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I think it's supposed to be gold? Dark, slightly mustardy yellow > that can easily get a nasty green tinge. I got two sets, one that was > cotton and was OK, a bit more brown-y, and one that was obviously > synthetic and really euch! Well, the synthetic ones I'd donate to somneone who'd use them, but the cotton ones (if I really didn't like the colour) I'd throw in the washing machine with a bright yellow dye to bring them farther into the definately yellow spectrum, or with a red to make them an orange colour, or a blue or green to make them a green shade. Possibly even a brown to get a rich golden brown instead of a vaguely brown gold... Loke the dusky pink ones that seem to be the most common second-hand velvet curtain colour - they I've dyed them all sorts of different colours rather than use them pink.... ibncluding several curtains that were slightly differnet shades of pink and none of them big enough to use for the prokect i wanted - they all got overdyed the same colour and it did away with the slight difference in the original colours so I had plenty of matching velvet for the project. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 06:00:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21533 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 06:00:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M9kCE12879; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M9kBG22033; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:46:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M9jtG21955 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKE5BU4EFK0019W7@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:45:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKE5BP6JT0001MQN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:45:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:41:40 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:41:34 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:41:26 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics In-reply-to: <200207211246.g6LCkHG24565@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <25254166C58@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:41:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Did anyone make something in home ec that they could wear? In my > first class we made a jumper. When I was 13 I made an awful snot-green short sleeved shirt (straight up and down number with the collar set into a keyhole neck... in the most vile green polycotton) I never actually wore it, however, as I was small and very fat and the style was terrible for someone that shape (not to mention the colour!!) I think it was after that experience that I put my foot down (in itself rare for me - to actually openly disagree with a teacher. I was nearly as scared of them as I was of the other kids!) and insisted on choosing the patterns and fabrics myself. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 06:06:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21558 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 06:06:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M9q3E13065; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M9q2G23087; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10306.mail.yahoo.com (web10306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M9prG23053 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722095153.33884.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.120.56.37] by web10306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:51:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1107797480-1027331513=:30752" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Uk sewing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:51:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1107797480-1027331513=:30752 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Understand exactly how you feel! One of the medieval groups I'm with (conquest) had a spate of events one the south east coast (UK) a few years back. Given I was living near Newcastle at the time I often ended up making trips of up to 400 miles each way! (And Newcastle's about a hundred miles or so south of where Jean lives). Oh and I can't drive, so had to take the train, which was fun! Debbie Lough I would be delighted to go 90 miles for a weekend event. Probably not for a day. But unfortunately we're talking minimum 300 for me to the Midlands, and by the time I've done that 6 or 7 times for events over the summer, I really can't face it any more. Spend the summer travelling and putting out for the tourists, then hibernate and nest through the winter! By the way, when we first thought of forming an SCA group in Scotland, the admin in the US suggested we just join our"local" group in south-east England. Jean -- Jean Waddie --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1107797480-1027331513=:30752 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Understand exactly how you feel!  One of the medieval groups I'm with (conquest) had a spate of events one the south east coast (UK) a few years back.

Given I was living near Newcastle at the time I often ended up making trips of up to  400 miles each way!  (And Newcastle's about a hundred miles or so south of where Jean lives).

Oh and I can't drive, so had to take the train, which was fun!

Debbie Lough

 

 

I would be delighted to go 90 miles for a weekend event.  Probably not
for a day.  But unfortunately we're talking minimum 300 for me to the
Midlands, and by the time I've done that 6 or 7 times for events over
the summer, I really can't face it any more.  Spend the summer
travelling and putting out for the tourists, then hibernate and nest
through the winter!

By the way, when we first thought of forming an SCA group in Scotland,
the admin in the US suggested we just join our"local" group in
south-east England.

Jean

--
Jean Waddie


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com! /mail_storage.html --0-1107797480-1027331513=:30752-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 06:11:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21575 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 06:11:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M9w3E13225; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M9w2G24302; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M9tjG23818 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:55:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKE5O3J2HS001VHS@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:55:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKE5O1CK1M001NQ9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:55:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:51:38 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:51:36 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:51:31 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics In-reply-to: <200207211551.g6LFpAG29670@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2527EF04B15@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:51:30 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Sometimes I wanna scream, "Fake would have looked better!" But not wear as nicely for those of us who dislike wearing synthetics...... Sometimes that's a high factor in ceciding to go for a particular fabric over another. Personally, I'd go for the natural fibre choice most of the time simply for the fact that they're cooler and more comfortable to wear. I can wear synthetics but I'd prefer nto to and only ever go for them for the most fancy garb as natural fibre brocades in period-suitable patterns are hard to come by and usually more expensive. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 06:11:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21579 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 06:11:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6M9wCE13237; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6M9wBG24344; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6M9veG24198 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:57:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722095740.2364.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:57:40 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Uk sewing To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020722095153.33884.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:57:40 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Well, Debbie, would you be interested in loose meetings nowadays, or are you still living in Newcastle? Nicole --- Debbie Lough wrote: > > Understand exactly how you feel! One of the medieval groups I'm with > (conquest) had a spate of events one the south east coast (UK) a few years > back. > > Given I was living near Newcastle at the time I often ended up making trips > of up to 400 miles each way! (And Newcastle's about a hundred miles or so > south of where Jean lives). > > Oh and I can't drive, so had to take the train, which was fun! > > Debbie Lough > ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 06:24:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21655 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 06:24:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MAA3E13732; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MAA2G26838; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MA8NG26522 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKE64K51UO001A3B@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:08:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKE64CJ7ME001NQ9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:07:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:04:01 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:03:46 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:03:41 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? In-reply-to: <200207211551.g6LFpAG29670@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <252B2CE150A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:03:41 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I heard this before about the problems of getting people together > in the UK for costume events. I had a conversation at the > CostumeCon in Hartford, CT a couple years ago. A mother and > daughter who flew over from England for the event. That would be Miki Dennis and her mother. Miki organises some of the few costume get togethers that *do* happen. > When we told them we had driven two days with an overnite stop > from Missouri to attend they said some of the people in the UK > would not consider coming even half that distance no matter how the > event. Some of it is the gas prices I think. We have much lower > rates then Europe. We also carpooled for the trip, sharing one or > two vehicles. For one of the next trips we're even thinking of > chartering a bus so we can have someone else do the driving. Split > the price among a number of people and its quite reasonable. I think it's more than just the pertrol prices - I'm starting to get used to the distances that people in the US consider reasonable for getting places, but the mindeset over here seems (generally) to be very different. Distances American friends have talked about for day-trips wouldn't be thought of for anything short of an overnight stay by lots of English people. Most of them would require a weekend trip and there are people (my other half's parents, for example) who would consider even a weekend trip as too short a time for a journeys of those distances. >From what I can make out, the distances most re-enactors in the UK travel for weekend events during the summer season are considered a bit over the top by most non-re-enactors over here.... My sisters have "shown an interest" in seeing some of the stuff I do but this year is the only time they've ever come along to an event (as public, not to participate) because for the first time it happened in the centre of the town where they both live. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 06:35:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21709 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 06:35:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MAM4E14076; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MAM2G29195; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MAJKG28635 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25188.; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:19:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:22:22 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6MAJKG28635 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:14:57 +0100 Status: RO Genie wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> I heard this before about the problems of getting people together in the UK for costume events. I had a conversation at the CostumeCon in Hartford, CT a couple years ago. A mother and daughter who flew over from England for the event. When we told them we had driven two days with an overnite stop from Missouri to attend they said some of the people in the UK would not consider coming even half that distance no matter how the event. Some of it is the gas prices I think. Yes, and I'm told that American motorists observe speed limits and don't drive so aggressively as many British do. I've been happily driving to reenactment events for 25 years, but recently I've started to find long journeys really stressful, with the roads often choked with huge lorries expecting everyone to give way to them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 06:55:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21771 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 06:55:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MAg5E14660; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:42:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MAg3G03101; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MAegG02855 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKE78WORHC001NQI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:40:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKE78UAEHA001U41@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:40:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:36:37 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:36:15 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:36:10 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric shops in the UK In-reply-to: <200207211745.g6LHjKG23985@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2533D725626@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:36:10 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Hey Teddy, > > do they have a website. I like floaty cottons. Yep. http://www.whaleys.co.uk/ Most of there stuff is undyed, however, so only order if you want white/offwhite (black in some cases) or want to dye it yourself. I mostly buy canvas, unbleached calico and LRK88 cotton from them (that's the light and floaty one) Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 07:07:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21812 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:07:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MAp6E14989; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MAp5G04897; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:51:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MAnLG04569 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb04la (unverified [10.1.200.106]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:45:20 -0700 thread-index: AcIxbN2prUE+y98mTBK4EVPeoHrhYg== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1081 - 16 msgs From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1081 - 16 msgs Message-ID: <044701c2316c$dda96390$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0448_01C23132.314A8B90" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:45:16 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0448_01C23132.314A8B90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Baildon, top end of Bradford. Anywhere near you?? Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > > From: Debbie Lough > Sent: 7/20/2002 7:09:55 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1081 - 16 msgs > > > Whereabouts in Yorkshire? (I'm not a memeber of the Guild, but I am in West Yorks.) > > Debbie. > ------=_NextPart_000_0448_01C23132.314A8B90 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Baildon, top end of Bradford. Anywhere near you??

Freyalyn


_______________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message----->
>
> From: Debbie Lough
> Sent: 7/20/2002 7:09:55 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1081 - 16 msgs
>
>
> Whereabouts in Yorkshire? (I'm not a memeber of the Guild, but I am in West Yorks.)
>
> Debbie.
> ------=_NextPart_000_0448_01C23132.314A8B90-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 07:07:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21816 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:07:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MAs3E15105; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MAs2G05512; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6MAp7G04910 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 04:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722105107.96821.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:51:07 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric shops in the UK To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <2533D725626@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:51:07 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > http://www.whaleys.co.uk/ > > Most of there stuff is undyed, however, so only order if you want > white/offwhite (black in some cases) or want to dye it yourself. > > I mostly buy canvas, unbleached calico and LRK88 cotton from > them (that's the light and floaty one) I buy the calico from them too, and I also used their cotton velvet, ben's baldrick is lined with it, lovely stuff, more hadwearing than they said it would be. my ivory silk skirt is made with their silk, go for their full sample range, that's the best option, wonderful touchy feely. nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 07:15:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21835 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:15:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MB25E15519; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MB24G07272; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MB1dG07123 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:01:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKE7YVM4WW001QQK@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:01:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKE7YUWC9Q001UUT@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:01:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:57:35 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:57:11 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:57:09 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] : getting men to stay still (WAS: Hooray for mothers) In-reply-to: <200207220007.g6M07CG23374@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <25396BB4ED2@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:57:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Nah, you gotta get the men to _stay still_ long enough to do > fittings. In my experience, most men don't have the patience for > tailored clothing. Then you ain't goin' about it the right way at all! There's nothing stiller than a man poised on a stool while you pin the crotch of his fitted hose..... I still have people who I barely recognizze walking up to me at events saying "you won't remember me, but I was one of the people at that hose-fitting session you did for the Paladins." Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 07:24:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21932 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:24:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MBB3E15739; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MBB2G09098; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MB8EG08605 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BB4CE10EFDD for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <071501c2316f$fbe75d50$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:07:35 -0400 Status: RO > Yes, and I'm told that American motorists observe speed limits and don't drive so aggressively as many British do. choke- anyone who says that has never driven on an American expressway!! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 07:54:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22235 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:54:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MBf4E16602; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MBf2G15091; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MBe6G14903 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKE9BD7074001LCH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:39:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKE9B3MODK001UIP@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:39:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:35:43 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:35:07 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:35:03 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? In-reply-to: <200207221001.g6MA18G24907@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <25438A313A8@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:35:03 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > The alternative in the short-term is perhaps to host it in poeples > homes, if they are willing. CGUK already do this (and don't restrict it, or any of their activities, to CGUK members) The last one was in May so the next one should be around August or September some time. Details should be on the CGUK webpage at; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CGUKNews/files/Index.html > I for one would be able to put a few people up overnight, and as we > live only 5-10 mins from a mainline railway station/M1/M25 and > there is a convienient village hall just down the road as well. We (Wimbledon area) have a sewing room (built last year) and can offer spare beds to a couple of people, plus a sofa bed and a z bed and a couple of camp beds... by then we're about out of available floor-space. > Let me know what you think. I think you should get involved in CGUK so we can pool resources.... Teddy (ex-treasurer of CGUK) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 10:12:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22804 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:12:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MDnVE22392; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:49:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MDnPG19601; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:49:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MDllG18860 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:47:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKEDRQWR5S001VH6@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:47:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKEDRNKH94001S3T@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:47:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:43:36 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:43:29 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:43:23 +0000 From: Teddy To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <2565C5175CF@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] (h-cost) : Velvet cope at V&A Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:43:23 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Hello folks, Drea and I managed to find time for a trip tot he V&A to look at that cope.... Cope. 1330 to 50 Red velvet embroidered with metal thread and silk in underside couching and split stitch with seed pearls, gold rings and beads. Cut up to make a chasuble, stole and maniple. Reassembled in 1854 Mounted in present form 1955. The velvet is dark red. If the velvet it was mounted on was matched to the colour it was in 1854 or 1955 it has faded considerably in the intervening years.... The velvet is short pile and worn in exactly the way I remember old theatre/cinema seats having worn though the pile of the velvet on the cope looks softer/finer than the more bristley stuff on cinema seats. The background fabric, visible in the worn parts, is the same streaky yellowish colour, like it's faded to that in the parts that have been exposed but not in the parts that are still coloured, that the theatre ones always seemed to go. They had parts of more embroidered red velvet vestments of around the same period 1320 - 40 and 1340 - 60, I think, I didn't actually make a note of the dates, all of which seemed to be about the same shade of dark red and with similar fading of the fabric and embroidery (differences in the style of the figures and motifs on each wer all that prevented me from thinking they might have originally come form the same garments - that red must have been popular) They're later than I thought/remembered (14th instead of 13th century) but it pins down the use of velvet for *ecclesiatical* garments to the early 13th century.... not much help for non-church stuff, however, without a big leap of extrapolation.... I hope, however, that this helps with the discussion. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 10:50:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23051 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:50:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MEaJE26082; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MEaFG07767; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6MEYAG06776 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:34:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722143409.89543.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:34:09 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <25438A313A8@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:34:09 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > CGUK already do this (and don't restrict it, or any of their activities, > to CGUK members) The last one was in May so the next one > should be around August or September some time. I signed up to both the lists they advertise on the web page, so hopefully I am starting to keep ahead of it. :-) I need others to help me get through the loooong event-free winter to acually sit down and sew! I always end up going mad with sewing when the season has started, I need either pressure or peer support. Who else has this problem? I just can't start well ahead in time. > We (Wimbledon area) have a sewing room (built last year) and can > offer spare beds to a couple of people, plus a sofa bed and a z bed > and a couple of camp beds... by then we're about out of available > floor-space. that makes it 6, yes? we have a couple of soldiers' folding camp beds too. and air beds, maybe you need another extension. *winks* hm, winbledon isn't that far away, we could drive for example. about 1.5 hours if the M25 behaves (harharharhar and pigs can fly) > > Let me know what you think. > > I think you should get involved in CGUK so we can pool > resources.... absolutely! when i get my next paycheck I will join. (sorry, seriously broke, I just paid Ninya for my mantua :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 11:12:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23551 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:12:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MEw6E27874; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MEw5G18333; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.23]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MEupG17667 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:56:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.101]) by dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 71270810 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:57:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Gold embroidery sources? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:56:54 -0400 Status: RO Teddy's message about the cope reminded me that I had no luck searching the archives for sources for high-quality gold embroidery stuffs. A student in a jewelry class I'm teaching asked me how hard it was to make it from scratch, she's that unhappy with the materials she's found. She's tried the copper plated with silver plated with gold and wants materials that doesn't tarnish the way it does. Any suggestions? Off list is fine, and I'll pass the info along if anyone asks. Thanks much! -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 11:34:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24062 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:34:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MFLTE00449; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MFLNG02027; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (root@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu [128.200.119.150]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MFKpG01635 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:20:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UAOBRIEN.uci.edu (HIB435A.HNET.UCI.EDU [128.200.119.223]) by benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (8.9.3/) with ESMTP id IAA29622 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020722081848.01b597e0@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> X-Sender: uaobrien@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Ulrika A. O'Brien" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6MFKpG01635 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:24:05 -0700 Status: RO At 08:07 PM 7/20/2002, you wrote: >Catching up on my e-mail.... > >At 1:39 PM +0200 7/15/02, Ingrid G. Storrř wrote: >>"...Vid ĺtermonteringen >>syddes alla sömmar med smygsöm... >> >>Translation of the word "smygsöm" is basically the only thing left that >>I'm wondering about; > >It seems like it ought to mean "ornamental stitching" or "decorative >stitching," cf. Danish "smykke". However that doesn't get us much farther, >does it? A pass through my small collection of Danish/Norwegian embroidery >books doesn't turn up anything either. Sorry! No, definitely not. The Swedish word for ornament is "smycke". "Smyga" is sneak, or skulk -- do something covert, anyhow -- the sense I get from the word is that it's got to be some sort of stitch that is invisible, or nearly so, from the right side. I haven't spoken up because I don't sew in Swedish, as it were, so I have no idea *which* stitch is being referred to. Ulrika, who was born in Sweden, but learned to sew in English. Ulrika O'Brien English & Comparative Literature University of California, Irvine 435 Humanities Instructional Building (949) 824-6712 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 11:57:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24672 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:57:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MFi5E02528; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:44:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MFi3G14095; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MFfhG12871 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Og+QC7i6SdmgYNQ8rj43Lgw="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G8B6P9AS; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:40:57 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Chafing (was:Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady) Message-ID: <20020722.083954.-217645.7.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:32:45 +0000 Status: RO Try using the kind for athlete's foot. Works great. Arlys On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:25:03 +0000 "Mary Temple" writes: > I'm not sure I'd want to use Lotrimin that close to parts that have a > specific anti-fungal cream for them - Gyne Lotrimin. But maybe I'm > too paranoid. > > Personally, I use plain old Cornstarch. It has to be reapplied > periodically, but it WORKS. > > Mary/Katerine ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 11:58:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24687 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:58:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MFiOE02583; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:44:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MFiHG14223; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MFg7G13076 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Og+QC7i6SdmgVbHrlyQKbJc="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G8B6P89Z; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:40:57 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) Message-ID: <20020722.083953.-217645.6.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:30:57 +0000 Status: RO I like it because it breathes, it's often cheaper, and it's easier to care for. It also feels better against your skin, IMHO. I always find linen scratchy. Arlys > I think that sometimes people use cotton broadcloth rather than > linen for > Renaissance faires, SCA, etc., because it BREATHES. You wouldn't > catch me > at a California faire in a non-breathing fabric! I often use cotton > broadcloth for Victorian undergarments (chemises, drawers, > petticoats, etc.) > exactly for that reason. > > - Kendra > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 12:49:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25817 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:49:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MGa9E08909; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MGa3G14891; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MGXVG13398 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.172] (pm5-172.eos.net [205.133.149.172]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16043 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:33:25 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200207211224.g6LCOVG20353@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] design vs. sewing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:32:01 -0400 Status: RO I have a huge backlog of digests so I will risk this thread being very old. I would not be surprised to find that fashion design schools don't require any sewing knowledge, though I don't know if this is true or not. I write about graphic design, and very few designers know anything about production, whether it's print (what can and can't be printed, or at least printed well), sign design (what can be built and especially whether it can be read at a proper distance), or exhibit/interior/exterior design. For instance, when MOST designers design a huge outdoor sign, they don't know the engineering requirements (what the wind load of the materials they want is, what kind of a foundation it will require) or what size pieces the materials come in (many common materials come in 9-ft. lengths, so designing a 10-ft. sign face will require the manufacturer to seam it and to buy two pieces of the material). This is not true of ALL designers, and certainly not of the most reputable of them. But most graphic designers learn about aesthetics, not practicality. And of course how many architects know how to build buildings! Good ones do, but any architect can tell you horror stories about plans that couldn't be built or whole structures actually built without vital components. As for objects being designed without any regard to comfort of use, that is infamous, especially if an architect designs it. Look at all the chairs in design books! For some reason, architects all want to design chairs. In my opinion, it ought to be against the law for an architect to design any item of furniture. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 13:02:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26119 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:02:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MGlsE10253; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MGlpG22386; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:47:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MGiQG20215 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17WgIF-0003nT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:44:19 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 209.86.9.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:44:19 -0400 Status: RO > > > Yes, and I'm told that American motorists observe speed limits and don't > drive so aggressively as many British do. > > choke- anyone who says that has never driven on an American expressway!! Hehehehe. I was thinking the same thing. And it's worse in California... Road rage is basically the norm here, and everyone seems to drive enormous SUVs, barreling down the roads at 90 mph and blowing everyone else out of the lane. I don't even stick to the posted speed limit, but I get these jerks tailing me at 80mph, screaming on their cell phones while their yuppie brood bounces around unbelted in the back, watching movies on the onboard theater system. It's conspicuous consumption for the 21st century at it's most dangerous... Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 13:02:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26126 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:02:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MGm4E10281; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MGlxG22481; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MGkNG21393 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.132.11210764 (15888) for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m26.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.16) with ESMTP id MAILINID83-0722124606; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:46:06 -0400 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <40C1E649.4E880CFF.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] home ec Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:46:06 -0400 Status: RO As to making garments in home ec - when we had to take sewing, it took me six weeks to make a wrap around skirt because the teacher made me undo my work.She said, "the seams weren't straight enough." I tell you, it completely traumatized me against sewing (except for hemming my pants and putting on buttons) for years!! It wasn't until about 30 years later I fell into doing a bit of costuming when I got into working at the Renaissance Faire here in San Bernandino, CA. I quickly found it was easier to learn to make my costume than to buy it! But home ec - that was a scary experience. Being in a class where, indeed, some girls had mothers or grandmothers who taught them to sew and they go whizzing along while you are still trying to thread the needle. Thank goodness those days are past and now I'm a member of the Costumer's Guild West and have been doing some historical costuming (just for myself). It is truly wonderful to see some people's outfits (men's as well as women's)when we do our events. Anyway... that's my bit. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 13:37:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26835 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:37:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MHMBE14284; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:22:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MHM7G15193; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MHIEG12438 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:18:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.251]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020722171808.YZVQ24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:18:08 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020722122210.02e849b0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold embroidery sources? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:22:47 -0500 Status: RO Try Lorina at http://www.5rivers.org/ she has gold thread and pearl available. Cheers, Danielle At 10:56 AM 7/22/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Teddy's message about the cope reminded me that I had no luck searching >the archives for sources for high-quality gold embroidery stuffs. A >student in a jewelry class I'm teaching asked me how hard it was to make >it from scratch, she's that unhappy with the materials she's found. She's >tried the copper plated with silver plated with gold and wants materials >that doesn't tarnish the way it does. > >Any suggestions? Off list is fine, and I'll pass the info along if anyone >asks. > >Thanks much! > >-Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 13:57:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27353 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:57:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MHi9E16986; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MHi7G29096; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f165.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MHgiG28256 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:42:39 -0700 Received: from 65.70.196.86 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:42:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.70.196.86] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2002 17:42:39.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C6289F0:01C231A7] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:42:39 +0000 Status: RO OH my! Not here in Texas! If you're not doing 85mph on the highway when the speed limit is 65 or 70mph, you're in danger of being run over by all the people who think that gas (petrol) guzzling SUVs are safer because they're bigger!! (They REALLY need to pay attention to the news.) Mary/Katerine >Yes, and I'm told that American motorists observe speed limits and don't >drive so aggressively as many British do. I've been happily driving to >reenactment events for 25 years, but recently I've started to find long >journeys really stressful, with the roads often choked with huge lorries >expecting everyone to give way to them. > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 14:01:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27431 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:01:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MHm6E17438; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MHm5G01630; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.24]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MHjrG00258 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:45:53 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Plait braiding solution for trim Thread-Index: AcIxp1rRtALTvBlLSDKivI40qBoZdg== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6MHjrG00258 Subject: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:44:43 -0700 Status: RO Hi everyone, More developments on the 14th century Italian dress project. I've been racking my brain and discussing with list members on what techniques would be used to make the trim on the sleeve ends and neckline of the purple dress in The Last Judgment (Nardo di Cione, Santa Maria Novella, Florence, 1350's). The most recent answer was some kind of tablet weaving. I think I might have found the solution this weekend. I was discussing it with one of the ladies who runs Patiche (Asha) and she suggested that tablet weaving might not be flexible enough to go around a neckline like that without being pieced. She said that plait braiding (the precursor to bobbin lace) was often used for trim and was highly flexible. They even had some trim that was plait braided. I bought a yard of the stuff to have for reference and about fifteen minutes later, another lady at the event and I had managed to smooth the straight yard of trim into an almost complete circle with no wrinkles and no puckers. I was practically jumping up and down with excitement! So, next question for everyone here, any book suggestions for learning plait braiding? Best regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 14:18:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27746 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:18:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MI3HE19052; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:03:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MI3EG11168; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f173.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.173]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MI0cG09495 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:00:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:00:32 -0700 Received: from 65.70.196.86 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:00:32 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.70.196.86] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2002 18:00:32.0680 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC1FE280:01C231A9] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:00:32 +0000 Status: RO I have no problem starting a project - I get lost somewhere in the middle!! I have several projects floating around in various stages of completion! Mary/Katerine >I signed up to both the lists they advertise on the web page, so hopefully >I am >starting to keep ahead of it. :-) I need others to help me get through the >loooong event-free winter to acually sit down and sew! I always end up >going >mad with sewing when the season has started, I need either pressure or peer >support. Who else has this problem? I just can't start well ahead in time. > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 14:23:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27779 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MIA7E19828; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIA5G15101; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40210.mail.yahoo.com (web40210.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6MI7gG13765 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722180737.23713.qmail@web40210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.189.83.254] by web40210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:07:37 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207220700.g6M70BG22560@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: 14th Century French lady Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Aaaii, Robin, I think you've 'got' me on the linings... I would really have to get organized to find pictures that lurk in my memory as showing skirts flipped up or in some manner exposing their insides -- with no contrasting color AND some sort of stitch/seam detail. I simply can't do such a search any time soon, due to rabid sewing commitments in the short term.. I will therefore definitely concede that linings could have often been the same color and that artists may have painted whatever they wanted, either by adding a different-colored lining or taking one away that is actually present in life. I also admit to taking leaps of logic, such as, "during the summer months they might minimize layers". Not a scholarly approach, for sure. I also am drawn to the idea of an inner lining between the shoulders and the hips for the reasons you describe. The first time I made a shift with lacing to support my bosum, I used this method by intuition, assuming that two layers of thin linen were better than one. I am willing to attemp the same thing for a kirtle acting as the sole support garment, and will certainly let you know my results. I noticed you have a request on your website for others to submit their pictures when they've got working garments done along the lines you recommend. Have you receive any yet? Please post them! We could all use the inspiration... One of my still-standing questions (asked elsewhere and never really answered to much satisfaction) is: how were linings sewn in this time period? Were they bag linings (two mirrored garments sewn together on the good sides and then turned out) or were they flat-lined, where two layers for each piece of cloth are then sewn together at each seam? Or, might there have been individual pieces sewn to the inside of the garment? There's a fabulous picture of a man whose doublet is tied down around his waist done by Rogier van der Weyden called "Beheading of St. John the Baptist" circa 1455-60. In this picture you can clearly see stitchs and fabric placement. It appears he has some buff-colored fabric sewn in pieces to the inside of his doublet. Of course, this doesn't prove anything about how linings were placed for fitted female dresses for the century previous, but it IS a tantalizing glimpse into tailoring techniques at that time. For a "won't do justice to the real thing" web view, check out http://www.abcgallery.com/W/weyden/weyden57.html. Unfortunately, the picture is cut off on the right side, where most of the lining detail occurs, and the resolution isn't what it needs to be to see the stitches. Robin wrote: "Lining improves other aspects of construction, too, such as lacing holes (because you have two layers already in place) and neckline (as you don't need to face the opening or turn an edge under and tack it). I respond: Okay, this is an area I have questions about too... The Museum of London book shows an extant example of what was probably a neckline, faced in silk. It's clear from this piece that there is no lining to whatever garment it original was part of (it's only a small fragment). In addition, there are sleeve fragments and lacing hole fragments, all of which appear to be single layers of garment faced with a piece of silk and then worked with buttonholes or eyelets within the area covered by the silk facing. If women's fitted garments were lined routinely, were the mens' as well? Could these fragments all be from male clothing? Or, possibly feminine clothing? Not sure if we'll ever know, without a full garment. Robin wrote: the combination of wool-garment-with-linen-lining appears in documents of this period. I respond: Oooh, I know it's a pain in the butt, but would you be willing to dig for this reference for us knowledge-starving/budding clothing historians? I am dying to read more on the topic of period text citing clothing standards... Robin wrote: If you use a non-supporting chemise and rely on the dress to provide all your support, I think you will find that you fare better with a lining than without one. I respond: Practical question -- how close to the body do you cut your shift/chemise? Is it relatively fitted (but not supportive) to cut down on bunching of fabric when the tight top layer is added? Robin wrote: I think it is no coincidence that this increase in references to lining occurs at the same time as the new style of close fitting. I respond: I will certainly pick up Dyer's book, then, and take a look! Any other good sources for such discussion on the lining of garments? Robin wrote: A chamberpot (or anything at ground level) requires you to squat, not sit. That means spreading the legs and balancing over them. If you've dropped a garment around your ankles, this maneuver is somewhere between difficult and impossible. I respond: Agreed! I never, for that very reason, drop my undergarments around my ankles when dressed in this period's clothing. I tend to be a bit fastidious (ask my husband; drives him nuts) about certain things, not least of which is use of facilities shared by others, especially strangers. I never sit down, but rather crouch, all while clutching my underwear around my spread knees and up and out of the way. I would posit that this method of mine would work equally well (if not better) for a full-squat over a chamberpot, but I'm only so certain after living like this for days in a row on a regular basis and testing my method in action. All I'm trying to say is that the wearing of underwear in no way inconveniences me when using any sort of bathroom facility. My inconvenience comes from voluminous skirting and the plumbing we women have that disallows a standing 'aim' like the menfolk have. Robin wrote: Hmm. One thing we can be pretty sure of is that medieval women never shaved their inner thighs. Many modern women do, though. I have no idea if chafing correlates with shaving, but if it does, it was probably not nearly as common a problem medievally. I respond: I don't grow enough hair to make shaving an issue, but I did think further about the issue of chafing in general. When I was a teenager and much thinner than now, I still chafed in a skirt on a hot day (while walking around) because of the swivel of my hips and/or my leg movements/gait. It didn't have to do with bulging thighs so much as the way the legs move in relation to each other. I can't imagine that the whole of Medieval womanhood was immune to these same issues. However, I am in the realm of speculation without further sources, such as finding a hoard of perfectly preserved graves of 14th century women wearing underwear under their dresses! Tasha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 14:36:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27848 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:36:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MIMRE21171; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:22:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIMNG22045; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:22:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIKGG20665 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.83]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZN00FOVXLNI2@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:20:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020722111455.00c56100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:15:58 -0700 Status: RO >So, next question for everyone here, any book suggestions for learning >plait braiding? Is there a way you can figure it out, between analyzing the piece you have and looking in a bobbin lace book? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 14:39:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27874 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:39:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MIQCE21611; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:26:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIQ7G24218; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.24]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIOYG23326 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:24:35 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim Thread-Index: AcIxrLq2JnyDVMgkQPOvZSVKss+tEAAAAgAw From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6MIOYG23326 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:23:42 -0700 Status: RO <> Possibly, and I know someone who knows how. I requested the book recommendations because I will need to document all of this within an inch of its life for a competition. Best regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 14:48:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27913 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:47:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MIYIE22450; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIYGG28761; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIWIG27708 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:32:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6MIWGJU011018 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] design vs. sewing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > As for objects being designed without any regard to comfort of use, that is > infamous, especially if an architect designs it. Look at all the chairs in > design books! For some reason, architects all want to design chairs. In my > opinion, it ought to be against the law for an architect to design any item > of furniture. > > Gail Finke Well, a friend of mine told me this weekend that Isey Mikaye (sp?), the fashion designer, started out as an architect; and that a lot of the current crop of fashion designers are following his lead. So perhaps we ought to extend the ban on architects designing things of practical use to clothing ;) -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 14:54:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27938 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:54:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MIf5E22968; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIf3G02669; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIeGG02202 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:40:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6MIeEJU012167 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:40:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020722180737.23713.qmail@web40210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Lining (was Re: 14th Century French lady Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: > One of my still-standing questions (asked elsewhere > and never really answered to much satisfaction) is: > how were linings sewn in this time period? Were they > bag linings (two mirrored garments sewn together on > the good sides and then turned out) or were they > flat-lined, where two layers for each piece of cloth > are then sewn together at each seam? Or, might there > have been individual pieces sewn to the inside of the > garment? I don't know much about 14th c. lining practices, but just re-read the instructions in _Costume Close-Up_ (Linda Baumgartner) for lining an 18th c. man's coat and found that it was MUCH different from what I'd been doing (I was basically bag-lining coats/waistcoats and then topstitching). Apparently, the way coats/waistcoats are made is to put the inner and outer fabric together, wrong sides together, and turn under the seam allowances at the top and bottom, then top-stitch (i.e., the top-stitching is what holds the lining to the outer fabric). Before you do this, you put on the pockets, sew on the buttons and sew the buttonholes, etc.; the areas under the buttons and buttonholes have a separate interfacing, and sometimes the lining is slit around the buttonholes and whip-stitched around the holes, making it easier to remove the lining and replace it later on. Anyway, after all this is done, you sew the vertical (side and back) seams together on the outer fabric, then whip-stitch the vertical seams of the lining down. Am still figuring out more of the details on this; the book is pretty clear, but one needs a few times working through to assimilate all the little details. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 15:04:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28008 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:04:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MIo6E23711; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MIo4G07426; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40209.mail.yahoo.com (web40209.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.70]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6MIlxG06338 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020722184754.67907.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.189.83.254] by web40209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:47:54 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207221803.g6MI3tG11657@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Plait braiding solution for trim Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Greetings Colleen, Colleen wrote: So, next question for everyone here, any book suggestions for learning plait braiding? I respond: I sheepishly admit that I don't know what you mean by "plait braiding" exactly -- I was taught the two words were synonymous, but I've seen the term used that way before, and I'd love to get a quick explanation). If you are interested in finger-loop braids, though, there is an excellent Compleat Anachronist (#108 -- http://www.sca.org/ca/issues.html), on fingerloop braiding. I have used this manual to learn quite a few period braids that I've subsequently used for both lacing and for trim on clothing. Some give you a flatter braid, while some are rather round and bulging. These sort of braids can easily be bent around a neckline with minimal puckering, but it might be a challenge to make one wide enough to match exactly the width shown in the picture you cite. You could make a few and lay them down parallel and touching, though. For a shiny, silky gleam, consider using Trebizond silk thread -- it's a thick buttonhole-twist and it produces lovely braids. Have others recommended strips of alternately-colored fabric? Or even fabric that has been embroidered? Even if you cut the fabric on-grain, as opposed to bias, you don't have to make it all one piece. You could have separate pieces that are cut and attached on the bias at the top of the shoulders to fit the body and lay down flat. These sorts of dresses almost certainly have shoulder seams, so an alternating color of fabric but on the same angle as the shoulder seams would work quite well. Good luck, Tasha (Marcele in the SCA) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 15:14:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28071 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:14:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MJ1ME24681; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:01:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MJ1BG13440; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:01:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.24]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MJ0tG13261 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:00:56 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Plait braiding solution for trim Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: Plait braiding solution for trim Thread-Index: AcIxsKhJIk2rKNrtQA28l0ReUE/MmwAABrRg From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6MJ0tG13261 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:00:03 -0700 Status: RO Thanks for the suggestion of the Compleat Anachronist issue. I already have it, but don't think it would be the choice for this. The trim that I'm looking at on the dress is not narrow - it's at least two, possibly three fingers wide and appears flat. The fingerloop braids that I've done have come out much narrower and were bulkier. Plait braiding was the term that Asha used in describing it to me. It is apparently a precursor to bobbin lace and is made using pins to create the braid. The example of the trim that I saw of this type was exceedingly flat. Sorry I can't provide a better definition. Kat - can you help me out with this? The trim in this particular picture (The Last Judgment, Nardo di Cione) doesn't seem to be couched because I can't see any of the purple color of the dress showing through. It is gold colored and appears to have a pattern of some type in it - I need a better close up to actually see the pattern. It also appears to be one continuous line - I haven't seen any seams in it. Granted the artist could have just left them out. I'm not sure how likely it would be that fabric would have been used for trim on this type of dress. I haven't seen anything in what I've read to indicate that so far. Is there a source that specifically refers to that practice? Best regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 15:37:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28472 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:37:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MJOPE27104; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MJOMG26466; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MJNkG26089 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:23:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWgqA3VO4aEWFtAPq0VLvhUVANPekQe4qJQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G8CKDLBT; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:22:19 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] home ec Message-ID: <20020722.152214.-251755.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-7 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:13:32 -0400 Status: RO It was just as frustrating to know how to sew and have a teacher who made you take an entire semester to make one lousy dress. Oh how I hated that dress by the time it was done. I wore it the one time I was required to, to the end of the semester reception. My sister wore it for years, but I didn't even like it on her. How anyone could take an hour to sew a couple of seams was beyond my impatient imagination. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 16:27:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28981 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:27:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MKE4E02062; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKE2G25342; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [66.234.169.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKACG23225 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:10:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200207221501.AA247202114@mail.wireweb.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Alexandria Doyle" X-Sender: To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim X-Mailer: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:01:12 -0500 Status: RO I've worked a plaited braid stitch, from an Elizabethan Embroidery book, by Jane Zimmerman, a self published book, if I remember correct. In the book this stitch is considered an advance stitch, and I know it took me some time to figure it out when most stitches are really easy to do. Once you get going though, it's smoothing sailing and makes a really nice braided trim. Alex ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Colleen McDonald" Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:23:42 -0700 ><and looking in a bobbin lace book?>> > >Possibly, and I know someone who knows how. I requested the book recommendations because I will need to document all of this within an inch of its life for a competition. > >Best regards, > >Colleen >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 16:28:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28985 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:28:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MKEVE02126; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:14:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKEOG25629; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:14:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKC2G24220 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6MKDJx70856 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:13:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207222013.g6MKDJx70856@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) In-Reply-To: <00d301c2311f$2080e2e0$d8994cd8@sgrochoski> "from Apollonia Margherita at Jul 21, 2002 09:28:45 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO and that's not nearly adequate weight for any victorian garments that I have touched. Habatoi is too thin to even use as a proper lining fabric for modern garments, IMO. .heather. > You can get 100% silk, China Habitoi, for about $3.00 a yard from exotic > silks. www.exoticsilks.com > > Apollonia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kendra Van Cleave" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:23 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS > alleriges/reactions) > > > > I often use synthetic fabrics in place of historically authentic due to > > price -- if I waited around to be able to afford silk, I'd never be able > to > > make costumes! (Most of what I do is Victorian). So I'll often use > > high-quality synthetic taffetas etc. > > > > I think that sometimes people use cotton broadcloth rather than linen for > > Renaissance faires, SCA, etc., because it BREATHES. You wouldn't catch me > > at a California faire in a non-breathing fabric! I often use cotton > > broadcloth for Victorian undergarments (chemises, drawers, petticoats, > etc.) > > exactly for that reason. > > > > - Kendra > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 16:40:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29088 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:40:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MKQUE03378; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKQFG02607; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:26:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKOZG01529 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:24:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29670 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:49:29 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: 14th Century French lady In-Reply-To: <20020722180737.23713.qmail@web40210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:49:29 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: > ...I also admit to taking leaps of logic, such as, "during the summer > months they might minimize layers". That's one I hear people say a lot, and it sounds right until you really start analyzing it. My sense now is that the idea of a summer vs. winter wardrobe did not mean the same thing then as it did now. Although there are written references to summer and winter clothing, the overall number of garments owned by any one woman would be fairly small. Many people even of reasonable means would not have found it worth spending money on a dress wearable *just* for the two or three hottest months; they would more likely have had heavier and lighter weight dresses that were all wearable at least half the year. For winter, they would wear the heavier ones and also add layers -- that meaning not linings in garments, but additional garments or cloaks/mantles. Other points to remember: summer temperatures in medieval Europe were nowhere near what is routinely experienced in most of the U.S. (If they were, the clothing would be a lot different!) And wool seems to have been the dominant cloth year-round. I find that fine worsteds (e.g. men's summer suiting weight) are just right for warm weather. > I noticed you have a request on your website for others to submit > their pictures when they've got working garments done along the lines > you recommend. Have you receive any yet? Heh. People keep telling me about their work, but no one ever sends me pix ... sniff ... However, I have a couple of links that my husband will eventually get around to putting up on the site. I think I've mentioned both of them here before you joined us, but here they are for you and other newcomers: -- To see photos from the workshop I did in Boise in July 2001, follow this link. There are six pages of photos. -- To see two photos of Marie Vibbert in a Gothic fitted dress she made after I fit a mockup for her and taught her the method, go here: > One of my still-standing questions (asked elsewhere and never really > answered to much satisfaction) is: how were linings sewn in this time > period? Were they bag linings (two mirrored garments sewn together on > the good sides and then turned out) or were they flat-lined, where two > layers for each piece of cloth are then sewn together at each seam? > Or, might there have been individual pieces sewn to the inside of the > garment? No clue! I do them as a separately sewn layer, because I fit the lining first and then build the outer layer over it. I connect them only at the neck edge and front openings, and the interior armhole seam. I think this works well for reducing the stress on the outer layer. But this is just how I work. I have seen no good sources on lining methods for this period -- even Charles de Blois jupon/pourpoint/whatever was apparently relined during conservation, so God knows what it was like originally. I'd love to hear any solid evidence on lining methods from this time. Still, I suspect there was a great deal of variation among individual seamsters, and from one style to another over the course of decades/centuries, depending on what worked best for different types of garments. The van der Weyden you mention, for instance, is from more than 100 years after the fitted dress first appeared, and there have been many new technological changes in costume in that time (for instance, waistline seams and more structuring in the upper body) that would make me hesitate to read backwards in time to try to apply that particular lining technique to the fitted dress. > Robin wrote: > "Lining improves other aspects of construction, too, such as lacing > holes (because you have two layers already in place) and neckline (as > you don't need to face the opening or turn an edge under and tack it). > > I respond: > Okay, this is an area I have questions about too... The Museum of > London book shows an extant example of what was probably a neckline, > faced in silk. It's clear from this piece that there is no lining to > whatever garment it original was part of (it's only a small fragment). > In addition, there are sleeve fragments and lacing hole fragments, all > of which appear to be single layers of garment faced with a piece of > silk and then worked with buttonholes or eyelets within the area > covered by the silk facing. If women's fitted garments were lined > routinely, were the mens' as well? Could these fragments all be from > male clothing? Or, possibly feminine clothing? Not sure if we'll ever > know, without a full garment. Exactly. The odds are not good that any particular fragment pulled out of the Thames comes from a woman's fitted dress or even a man's fitted cote. Fitted body garments were worn by the middle and upper classes, men and women, but the majority of the population didn't fit into that category. Lower-class people may have been more likely to be wearing unlined clothing, as they certainly were wearing less fitted clothing. And then there are many many garments other than basic body garments -- cloaks and mantles, surcotes/tabards/overtunics of various sorts, horse barding, whatever. Bear in mind also that identification of many of the London fragments is very uncertain. The sleeve piece is pretty clear, but for most of the rest of the pieces ... your guess is as good as theirs (and that's exactly what a MoL curator told me!). For instance, the pieces that are presented in "Dress and Textiles" as parts of a "skirt" feel pretty odd to me, given their extremely small size, the pleating at the top of one piece, and the implication of a waistline seam (that does not seem likely for styles of this time). I think there are plenty of equally good possibilities for that group -- say, parts of a child's cloak, or maybe a worker's apron. And it's far more likely for a child to drop his cloak in the Thames, or a craftsman to lose an apron he'd temporarily slung over the back of his cart, than for a woman to lose half a dress :-) As to the eyelet holes, lots and lots of things were laced. We can learn some techniques for eyelet-making from that fragment, but we can't be sure what it was those particular eyelets were used for. Similarly, there's a good-sized fragment that is pretty clearly identifiable as a buttoned lower sleeve, but the fragment simply tells me that unlined lower sleeves existed. I do not always line my sleeves, even though I always line the body of my dress. I'm also aware that many loose garments (e.g. some lower-class garments, upper-class robes, and many gowns from the earlier half of the century) were buttoned on the forearm. So, again, we can learn about one technique for buttons and buttonholes from that fragment, but we don't know what garment, what class, what gender, or even exactly what decade it represents. > Robin wrote: > the combination of wool-garment-with-linen-lining appears in > documents of this period. > > I respond: > Oooh, I know it's a pain in the butt, but would you be willing to dig > for this reference for us knowledge-starving/budding clothing > historians? I am dying to read more on the topic of period text citing > clothing standards... I think you'll find that one in the same place as the other nugget I dropped in that post: Christpher Dyer's "Standards of Living in the Later Middle Ages." This is, essentially, an economic analysis covering income and expenditure habits, but it has lots of good detail from specific household accounts at various class levels. He covers many things besides clothing: food, household goods, horses, etc. Dyer has done two other books, one of which I don't even have yet (saw it at K'zoo this year but was short on cash); they might be worth reading too. Neither is specifically on costume, but I expect they'll have some useful tidbits. Among the cool things I remember seeing in Dyer were references to garments that were "russet lined with blanket" but never the other way around. The garments in question were, IIRC, annual clothing allowances to lay tenants of church properties.) Russet was undyed wool of a black sheep. Blanket was undyed wool of a white sheep (from "blanc," meaning white). These were the two cheapest available wools, as they were not dyed. The natural color of the black-sheep wool apparently was considered more attractive or suitable for a garment than the plain white, so the white was used on the inside. Note that even these bottom-of-the-line garments were lined; I'm guessing that was for warmth and durability. Tenants were dressed plainly, but not poorly. > I respond: > Practical question -- how close to the body do you cut > your shift/chemise? Is it relatively fitted (but not > supportive) to cut down on bunching of fabric when the > tight top layer is added? Yes. I can slip it on over my head, but I don't struggle to get into it. It's cut from narrow body pieces, with gores to create enough skirt flare to skim my hips without hanging up there. The most important thing is not to make the armhole opening too large, and use an underarm gusset so that you can press the fabric against your underarm (as the dress will do) without tugging or binding on the sleeve or lifting the body. I use a lightweight but strong linen. It bunches a bit, but I've never noticed the bunching, and you don't see any bunching through the lined fitted dress. (There are some pictures of me in such a dress on the Boise workshop photo pages. I think the surfaces are quite smooth, and that's with an unfitted chemise underneath.) > Robin wrote: > I think it is no coincidence that this increase in > references to lining occurs at the same time as the > new style of close fitting. > > I respond: > I will certainly pick up Dyer's book, then, and take a > look! Any other good sources for such discussion on > the lining of garments? Not that occurs to me at the moment. What I find are, unfortunately, usually small tidbits in books about other topics completely. Oh, of course you should look at Stella Mary Newton's "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince," which includes some wardrobe account details. Sometimes you can tell a lot from the yardage purchased for a garment, for instance, or if the item refers to the purchase of cloth for linings, edgings, etc. The accounts are royalty, but it's something. (I know where you can get your hands on the wardrobe accounts of the three King Edwards, but they are unfortunately not yet translated. You'd need background in Latin, medieval French, and paleography, and a ticket to London ... and a few years to spare, probably.) > I respond: > I never sit down, but rather crouch, all while clutching my underwear > around my spread knees and up and out of the way. I would posit that > this method of mine would work equally well (if not better) for a > full-squat over a chamberpot... Then you have better balance than I do! When I squat, my knees separate and spread from side to side, or I fall over backward. I don't think my underwear would stretch that far. However, I am not intending to experiment anytime soon. Perhaps this is a medieval skill that I have not had cause to learn. > I can't imagine that the whole of Medieval womanhood was > immune to these same issues. And alas, we can only guess as to what they dealt with or how, because they didn't write us notes! I was noticing some of the comments on another thread on this list the other day, when someone was talking about how she tucks in her shirt to her underpants and still keeps them from showing under low-rise jeans. That sort of data on the medieval woman's tricks for wearing specific styles would be priceless today! Still, there are too many cultures even today in which women do not wear underwear under skirts for me to assume that chafing is a universal problem requiring a fabric layer as a solution. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 16:43:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29152 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MKUIE03742; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:30:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKUGG04839; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:30:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKSFG03633 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:28:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip196.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.196]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6MKS9q13476 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:28:09 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Plait braiding solution for trim Message-ID: <3D3C0AC4.997.16FEA43@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:38:12 -0700 Status: RO > Plait braiding was the term that Asha used in describing it to me. It > is apparently a precursor to bobbin lace and is made using pins to > create the braid. The example of the trim that I saw of this type was > exceedingly flat. Sorry I can't provide a better definition. Kat - > can you help me out with this? It's called plait braiding. Plait braiding and bobbin lace have very little in common because of the twists and the like in bobbin lace, even if it was a precursor. Probably someone accidently twisted when they were just supposed to pass and ended up with it staying in one place, unlike the plaits. So, books on bobbin lace are just about useless. The place to look is in books on braiding. The pins are done only along the edge as you go, not within it. Good books: for the medieval period context, MOL's _Textile and Clothing_ has that. However, their braid is not as wide as your sample. However, for wider braids (such as Colleen will need, having seen her "sample piece"): _The Techniques of Ply-Split Braiding_ by Peter Collingwood (ISBN 0-9625586-9-9) I got my copy at Seattle's Weaving Works. _Braids: 250 Patterns from Japan, Peru & Beyond_ by Rodrick Owen (ISBN 1-883010-06-3) _Braidmaking_ by Barbara Pegg. (ISBN 0-7136-31988) You want a flat (not a round, hollow, spiral or square) braid. Avoid the knotted braids (these are macrame and would not have the same give, just like the bobbin lace techneques don't). One of the "sprangs" I saw in Ms. Pegg's book might do the trick (the Hopi Wedding Sash). However, then you'd have to dig for the medieval context of sprang. Collingwood's book has the best type for what you are looking, since his are quite wide. He also explains how to analyze a design so that you can reproduce your sample (if that is the one you want to use.) Most of the best explanation books are based on samples from Peru and Japan, as you might have guessed from the names of the books. You might want to write to the author of the MOL chapter on plait braiding to see if they have other information on it in terms of more samples from the time period. (As they don't quote everything in there.) I've not seen much else from the medieval period on it, but then textile archeology is much more recent (especially in Europe) than pottery, metal bits and the like. They might be able to refer you to professional articles, or (as they have done with me in the past) send them to you. Ask them specifically if they also have information about plait braiding in Italy. (If they don't have that, then the English stuff we do have may have to do.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 16:58:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29464 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:58:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MKhEE04861; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:43:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKhCG12001; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:43:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKgJG11521 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AEC33E101B0; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:44:51 -0500 Message-ID: <006901c231c0$4f914ec0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] design vs. sewing X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:42:35 -0400 Status: RO Mara, I started out in college as an architectural drawing major. I never thought I would use it again until I learning how to take patterns from existing garments. Surprising to me, after 25 years, I still remembered what I had learned in those classes. It came right back to me. I guess once you learn to draw in scale, it stays with you forever. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 17:01:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29501 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:01:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MKkDE05094; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKk6G13592; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:46:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MKi3G12444 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF2B3E601B0; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:46:35 -0500 Message-ID: <007001c231c0$8d590ae0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020722.152214.-251755.0.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] home ec X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:44:19 -0400 Status: RO Lalah, Maybe this is why home ec classes died out... and the changing roles of women in society. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 17:23:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29616 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:23:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ML2oE07522; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:02:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ML2bG24134; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:02:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ML1rG23610 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:01:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.182] (pm5-182.eos.net [205.133.149.182]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02781 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:01:51 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200207220700.g6M708G22550@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: lethal lack of cloaks Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:01:36 -0400 Status: RO Last week's Newsweek had a good article on this horrifying story. For those who want an immediate summary, here it is: A fire broke out in Saudi girl's school (started by a girl caught smoking a cigarette) and the one door out was locked, the attendant taking care of it off doing an errand. When the girls did get out, men whose job it was to make sure that women are never in public without their long cloaks (I forget the name) made them go back in, because many of the girls had run from the fire without them. The police stopped the men, I think, but not before a number of girls (less than 10, I think) had died and a larger number had been injured. This has caused a huge furor in Saudi Arabia. The school was not an expensive one, but a converted apartment building. These were ordinary girls from ordinary families, so this has hit people at home. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 18:46:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30281 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:46:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MMWGE22136; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:32:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MML3G15830; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MMKYG15624 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A5CA7C020C; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:23:06 -0500 Message-ID: <00e801c231ce$0309e7c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] August Online Classes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:20:39 -0400 Status: RO For those who don't know how to sew, we have an online Beginning Sewing class that starts August 5 at the Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com . Marna Jean Davis will be teaching Beginning Flat Patternmaking: A Bustle Period Bodice class. It starts Aug. 5. Jennie Chancey is teaching a new class, Fact or Fantasy? A Look at Costumes in Recent Regency Film Adaptations that starts on Aug. 12. JP Ryan is teaching her Making a Late 18th Century Wardrobe: Ladies Strapless Stays class beginning Aug. 26. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 18:50:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30316 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:50:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MMIpE20749; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MLh7G21850; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:43:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MLesG20381 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.105.190c0bc7 (3866) for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:40:35 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@AOL.COM Message-ID: <105.190c0bc7.2a6dd5d3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] design vs. sewing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:40:35 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 7/22/02 2:35:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: << So perhaps we ought to extend the ban on architects designing things of practical use to clothing ;) >> In a similar vein, there's those damn set designers who also think they can design the costumes too!!!! [actually some can.but most....hoo boy!] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 19:02:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30534 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:02:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MLFEE09934; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:15:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MLFCG03082; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MLB7G00344 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip150.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.150]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6MLB2q16696 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:11:02 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: 14th Century French lady Message-ID: <3D3C14CC.25411.1971B43@localhost> Priority: normal References: <20020722180737.23713.qmail@web40210.mail.yahoo.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:21:00 -0700 Status: RO snip > > > I can't imagine that the whole of Medieval womanhood was > > immune to these same issues. snip > Still, there are too many cultures even today in which women do not > wear underwear under skirts for me to assume that chafing is a > universal problem requiring a fabric layer as a solution. > > --Robin I've never understood this wearing of fabric to prevent chapping or chafing. I know that (and I'm technically obese, so don't say as some have tried, that it's because I'm skinny) I chafe *more* if there is any fabric next to my skin in warm or sweaty weather. This is especially true if I try to put on something like bike pants, shorts, nylons, etc. I've found that I'd much rather have my sweaty thighs rubbing together (as the sweat helps them glide) than to have something damp and my sweaty thighs rubbing together (where there is definitely no gliding going on, just rubbing). The fabric acts like sandpaper (even silk, nylons, cotton, you name it.) If you look at *really* hot climates (like Samoa) and the obese women there, they don't wear anything between their legs if they can help it. I suspect it is what a person is used to. My legs chafe with fabric like a Samoan lady's would do, because I'm *not* used to wearing it. Those of you who always wear something between your legs such as bike pants, nylons, etc probably get more chafed without it. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 19:13:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30780 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:13:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MLDOE09558; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:13:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MLDHG01785; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ML6XG26979 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:06:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6ML6Wa18341 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:06:32 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: 14th Century French lady In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:06:32 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: > > -- To see photos from the workshop I did in Boise in July 2001, follow > this link. There are six pages of photos. > *sigh* Oh, how I yearn for one of these in Northern Europe! I'd be there in a flash. Too bad you couldn't make it over this summer, Robin, even though you weren't planning on a whole workshop. :) > > answered to much satisfaction) is: how were linings sewn in this time > > period? Were they bag linings (two mirrored garments sewn together on > > the good sides and then turned out) or were they flat-lined, where two > > layers for each piece of cloth are then sewn together at each seam? > > Or, might there have been individual pieces sewn to the inside of the > > garment? > > No clue! I do them as a separately sewn layer, because I fit the lining > first and then build the outer layer over it. I connect them only at the > neck edge and front openings, and the interior armhole seam. You don't connect the skirt hems? I can't remember any references for this late in the century right now, but manuscript illustrations from earlier, for example the Manesse Codex to cite a well-known source, often show skirts held up to show the contrasting lining. And they definitely look like they're connected to the outer layer, since they follow the outer fabric hemlines exactly. But that usually applies to surcotes and not kirtles - perhaps there's a difference? But for hem protection, you'd think that the kirtle would get more wear than the surcote since it touches the ground first, and would be the layer that'd _need_ the extra lining. Hmm. Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 19:30:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31172 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:30:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MNGgE25840; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MNGLG13497; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:16:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MNFpG13237 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:15:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6MNH8V72429 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:17:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207222317.g6MNH8V72429@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: 14th Century French lady In-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?from_Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8_at_Jul_22=2C_2002_11=3A06=3A32_pm?= To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Robin, are you ever going to do a workshop in Northern California? seems like there ought to be enough interest here to bring you out... .heather. > On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: > > > > -- To see photos from the workshop I did in Boise in July 2001, follow > > this link. There are six pages of photos. > > > > *sigh* Oh, how I yearn for one of these in Northern Europe! I'd be there > in a flash. Too bad you couldn't make it over this summer, Robin, even > though you weren't planning on a whole workshop. :) > > > > answered to much satisfaction) is: how were linings sewn in this time > > > period? Were they bag linings (two mirrored garments sewn together on > > > the good sides and then turned out) or were they flat-lined, where two > > > layers for each piece of cloth are then sewn together at each seam? > > > Or, might there have been individual pieces sewn to the inside of the > > > garment? > > > > No clue! I do them as a separately sewn layer, because I fit the lining > > first and then build the outer layer over it. I connect them only at the > > neck edge and front openings, and the interior armhole seam. > > You don't connect the skirt hems? I can't remember any references for > this late in the century right now, but manuscript illustrations from > earlier, for example the Manesse Codex to cite a well-known source, > often show skirts held up to show the contrasting lining. And they > definitely look like they're connected to the outer layer, since they > follow the outer fabric hemlines exactly. But that usually applies to > surcotes and not kirtles - perhaps there's a difference? But for hem > protection, you'd think that the kirtle would get more wear than the > surcote since it touches the ground first, and would be the layer > that'd _need_ the extra lining. Hmm. > > Ingrid > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 19:45:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31497 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:45:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MNW6E26899; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MNW5G20088; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MNVRG19789 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:31:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6MNWjh72584 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:32:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207222332.g6MNWjh72584@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] costume college -- Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Well, I didn't meet any H-Costumers there, but I did meet some really great folks. What did you all think of the classes? i didn't get as excited as I did the year before. I enjoyed many of the presenters quite a bit, but some certainly lacked organization or background material -- and I found that quite frustrating. I also wish there were more breakdowns of types of lectures -- getting an overview slideshow on a period is very different than having a show & tell lecture on a presenters collection pieces. My favorite, I think, was the lecture on the House of Worth sunday afternoon. Beautiful, well organized, beautiful... sigh. to be rich and to have lived in the 1880s! .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 19:45:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31512 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:45:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6MNWJE26912; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:32:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MNWGG20163; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MNVSG19794 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.193.a343d11 (4396) for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:31:19 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: <193.a343d11.2a6defc6@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold embroidery sources? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:31:18 EDT Status: RO hi There Amanda!! I just taught a class in gold bullion metal thread this last weekend at Costumne College in Van Nuys, California---and will be happy to email you or anyone else off list a couple of sources I use that are pretty good:) Cheers and Best!! Albra/Kathryn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 22:10:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02011 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:10:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N1vEE05511; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:57:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N1vAG08406; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:57:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N1tDG07715 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:55:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32135 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:20:08 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: 14th Century French lady In-Reply-To: <200207222317.g6MNH8V72429@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6N1tDG07715 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:20:08 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Ingrid G. Storrř wrote: > *sigh* Oh, how I yearn for one of these in Northern Europe! I'd be > there in a flash. Too bad you couldn't make it over this summer, > Robin, even though you weren't planning on a whole workshop. :) It absolutely broke my heart not to be there. I was scheduled a year in advance to read a paper at the Leeds conference, but had to cancel due to family health considerations. (My husband is recovering nicely from his cardiac bypass; then last week, his mother ended up having one herself. It's been a helluva year.) I will get there, some year, really. I haven't been in England for several years now, and have managed only brief tourist visits in France and Spain in the last few years, courtesy of a friend who put me up in both places. (And I have slides from both trips still unsorted, ouch.) > > No clue! I do them as a separately sewn layer, because I fit the lining > > first and then build the outer layer over it. I connect them only at the > > neck edge and front openings, and the interior armhole seam. > > You don't connect the skirt hems? Oh, sorry, yes I do, for a normal lining, for all the reasons you cited. Since we had also been talking about linings that went only to the thigh, that's where my brain must have been. For those, I just finish the lower edge and let it hang free within the skirts at thigh level. But I wouldn't suggest that as a medieval approach. On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: > Robin, are you ever going to do a workshop in Northern California? > seems like there ought to be enough interest here to bring you out... I'm really reluctant to do another large-group workshop of the sort I did in Boise. At that one, we aimed to make a mockup for *everyone* there, and it's very hard to do justice to so many people. The logistics were also very challenging -- all those sewing machines, etc. I am quite happy to work with individuals or small groups (e.g. one dress fitting with several people observing, in someone's living room). And I'm also quite happy to hear that people who learned from me go on to help others fit; a very medieval way of passing knowledge :-) I can stand up and lecture all day, though, and have done so in quite a few places. Any group that wants to bring me in can email me directly. I do need my expenses covered, but I don't think any group has lost money on me yet. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 23:21:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03418 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:21:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N387E08967; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N385G29859; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:08:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N36sG29484 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:06:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip176.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.176]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6N36oo12988 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:06:50 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] design vs. sewing Message-ID: <3D3C682A.8313.11E72BF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <105.190c0bc7.2a6dd5d3@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:16:42 -0700 Status: RO > In a similar vein, there's those damn set designers who also think > they can design the costumes too!!!! [actually some can.but > most....hoo boy!] Or costume designers who don't sew and have no idea about what fabric can do what or why grain lines are important, etc... Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 23:31:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03661 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:31:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N3I6E09471; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:18:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N3I4G03144; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:18:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gpvissmtpgw02.splitrock.net (gpvissmtpgw02.splitrock.net [63.254.138.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6N3FYG02279 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:15:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23465 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2002 03:15:33 -0000 Received: from 207-191-202-36.cpe.ats.mcleodusa.net (HELO tulani) (207.191.202.36) by gpvissmtpgw.splitrock.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 2002 03:15:33 -0000 Message-ID: <021a01c231f7$42dda3e0$24cabfcf@ats.mcleodusa.net> From: "Avien" To: References: <001b01c230d3$ad2aef20$6501a8c0@Home> <00d901c2311e$6cf23df0$befc8218@WERNTO> <00d301c2311f$2080e2e0$d8994cd8@sgrochoski> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] rhinestones on Elizabethan costumes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:15:50 -0500 Status: RO Hello! I think that I have this all straightened out in my mind and then I hear another "fact" and I get all confused again. I am working on two Elizabethan costumes that have to get done very quickly. Can I put rhinestones on these costumes? Obviously I would be imitating gemstones (emeralds, sapphires, amethysts, and possibly diamonds). I would be glueing or using a rim setting. I am not in the SCA and am more interested in having fun and having a gorgeous costume than being precisely accurate in every detail, however, I like to know what "rules" I am breaking when I break them. Thanks so much for any help! Avien _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 22 23:49:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04098 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:49:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N3aCE10399; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N3a6G08797; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N3XSG07985 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303b ([12.238.186.49]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020723033322.CUBV26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@c59303b> for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:33:22 +0000 Message-ID: <0fab01c231f9$c6a16980$31baee0c@c59303b> From: "chiara" To: References: <001b01c230d3$ad2aef20$6501a8c0@Home> <00d901c2311e$6cf23df0$befc8218@WERNTO> <00d301c2311f$2080e2e0$d8994cd8@sgrochoski> <021a01c231f7$42dda3e0$24cabfcf@ats.mcleodusa.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] rhinestones on Elizabethan costumes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:29:22 -0500 Status: RO I do not remember where I got the information from, it may have been this list, but I was told that the gems were actually attached to a very sheer scrim that was attached to the costumes she wore so that they could be moved from one dress to the next. See if that works. :) Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Avien" To: Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] rhinestones on Elizabethan costumes > Hello! > > I think that I have this all straightened out in my mind and then I hear > another "fact" and I get all confused again. I am working on two > Elizabethan costumes that have to get done very quickly. Can I put > rhinestones on these costumes? Obviously I would be imitating gemstones > (emeralds, sapphires, amethysts, and possibly diamonds). I would be glueing > or using a rim setting. I am not in the SCA and am more interested in > having fun and having a gorgeous costume than being precisely accurate in > every detail, however, I like to know what "rules" I am breaking when I > break them. > > Thanks so much for any help! > Avien > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 00:07:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04536 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:07:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N3s7E11294; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:54:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N3s5G13752; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f205.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.205]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N3qiG13385 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:52:38 -0700 Received: from 12.232.52.91 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:52:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.232.52.91] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2002 03:52:38.0860 (UTC) FILETIME=[6360C0C0:01C231FC] Subject: [h-cost] Web Errors/Jester Costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:52:38 -0700 Status: RO For those of you who were still unable to see the pictures of the jester costume, I'll share a cute geeky tip so that you can. :) When you run into the problem of spaces or unrecognizable characters in the file name, there's always a three-character replacement that will return results. For example, the space character is replaced by %20 and the apostrophe is replaced by %27. So "Jester's Outfit 1.jpg" would be changed to "Jester%27s%20Outfit%201.jpg" for it to work. If you come across unfamilliar characters, you can try to save the source to the desktop, and then open it locally in a browser to look at what the characters show up as. (On my mac, it ends up being a "file://My%20HD/Desktop%20Folder/filename.jpg or something similar.) So to see the pictures, http://www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/Costume/Jester%27s%20Outfit%201.jpg is your best bet. They're lovely. :) -Laura (über-geeky) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 00:48:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05265 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:48:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N4ZGE13335; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N4ZCG25384; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from x11.quik.com (x11.quik.com [216.176.28.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N4XiG24906 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downstairs (ip050.vb.quik.com [216.176.5.50]) by x11.quik.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6N4XbaO031040 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:33:43 -0700 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gold embroidery sources? Message-ID: <000a01c23201$f67c69e0$696dfea9@downstairs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <193.a343d11.2a6defc6@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:32:31 -0400 Status: RO OOOOOOOHH!!! PLEASE share with all of us!! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of AlbraKat@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 7:31 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold embroidery sources? hi There Amanda!! I just taught a class in gold bullion metal thread this last weekend at Costumne College in Van Nuys, California---and will be happy to email you or anyone else off list a couple of sources I use that are pretty good:) Cheers and Best!! Albra/Kathryn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 02:25:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA20988 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:25:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N6C4E17095; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N6C2G21248; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N68fG20454 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.53.19cd2f2c (17230) for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:08:30 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <53.19cd2f2c.2a6e4cdd@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: window pane muslin To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:08:29 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 7/21/02 1:31:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: << American shoppers looking for batiste-thin cloth should check out the Martha Stewart sheers at K-mart. >> I keep seeing great sheers in drapery dept's. At Jo Ann's there was a 100% cotton sheer in large-ish gingham checks....woven. In beige and white, light OD green and white, orange and white, and red, green and yellow. That last one may be difficult to use, I think, but the others would make a nice 1860's summer dress. Wide 100% cotton for sheers in solid colors were at the $7 upholstery store.....for $5-something. Rich red and navy blue. An ochre too. I thought something over white with tucks or something....from 1800 to 1870s....or up to the 20th century if you like. Hanckock's had a linen sheer with a little [1/2"?] window pane woven in shiny polyester threads, giving it lots of body. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 03:16:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16548 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:16:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N734E18759; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N732G04264; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N72BG04032 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:02:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.138.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.138]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17WtgQ-0006RX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:02:11 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00d901c2311e$6cf23df0$befc8218@WERNTO> References: <001b01c230d3$ad2aef20$6501a8c0@Home> <00d901c2311e$6cf23df0$befc8218@WERNTO> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS alleriges/reactions) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:06:40 -0700 Status: RO At 6:23 PM -0700 7/21/02, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: >I think that sometimes people use cotton broadcloth rather than linen for >Renaissance faires, SCA, etc., because it BREATHES. You wouldn't catch me >at a California faire in a non-breathing fabric! I often use cotton >broadcloth for Victorian undergarments (chemises, drawers, petticoats, etc.) >exactly for that reason. I am slowly converting all the cotton under-layers to in my Elizabethan garb to linen, and I find it's notably cooler and also sturdier. My cotton shirts look nice at first, but the collars start fraying when I've only worn them a dozen times. Eventually I will have an all-linen farthingale, petticoats, smocks/shirts, and the back parts of the underskirt that has the decorated forepart (Thank you, Margo!). Oh, and caps too :) IMHO, cotton really doesn't "breathe" that well. It's often as tightly woven as sheeting, and while it may _absorb_ fairly well, it doesn't let air and breezes through the way linen does. Of course it's better than polyester, but personally I'd rather hunt around for inexpensive linen -- since I know it exists and I know where to start looking for it. I actually think the main reason people use cotton broadcloth is familiarity -- it looks like the cloth they're used to seeing "real clothes" made out of, and if they've done any sewing, they are used to the way cotton handles and drapes and washes. And they can go to their local fabric store (or Wal-Mart) and find a good variety of colors for prices that seem normal -- no research, no mail order, instant gratification. Margo, do I remember right that you have "cotton broadcloth Tudor" in your Bad Elizabethan Costume article? (Along with the kind of upholstery cloth that makes people look like walking sofas.....) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 03:16:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16680 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:16:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N73FE18775; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N73EG04316; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N72FG04050 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:02:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.138.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.138]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17WtgS-0006RX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:02:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020722081848.01b597e0@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020722081848.01b597e0@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Swedish terminology, Bocksten man? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:18:45 -0700 Status: RO At 8:24 AM -0700 7/22/02, Ulrika A. O'Brien wrote: >At 08:07 PM 7/20/2002, you wrote: >>It seems like it ought to mean "ornamental stitching" or >>"decorative stitching," cf. Danish "smykke". However that doesn't >>get us much farther, does it? A pass through my small collection of >>Danish/Norwegian embroidery books doesn't turn up anything either. >>Sorry! > >No, definitely not. The Swedish word for ornament is "smycke". >"Smyga" is sneak, or skulk -- do something covert, anyhow -- the >sense I get from the word is that it's got to be some sort of stitch >that is invisible, or nearly so, from the right side. I haven't >spoken up because I don't sew in Swedish, as it were, so I have no >idea *which* stitch is being referred to. > >Ulrika, who was born in Sweden, but learned to sew in English. Ah! Thank you! I figured that sooner or later someone who REALLY knew the language would surface! Whew . I do flounder through the Scandinavian languages well enough to extract basic information from them, but I often get tripped up like this by words that never made it into my vocabulary. (And of course the sewing, knitting, weaving (etc.) terms are never in the standard dictionaries....) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 03:16:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16704 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:16:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N73ME18789; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:03:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N73HG04339; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:03:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N72HG04061 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:02:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.138.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.138]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17WtgW-0006RX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:02:17 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: design vs. sewing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:42:31 -0700 Status: RO At 12:32 PM -0400 7/22/02, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >As for objects being designed without any regard to comfort of use, that is >infamous, especially if an architect designs it. Look at all the chairs in >design books! For some reason, architects all want to design chairs. In my >opinion, it ought to be against the law for an architect to design any item >of furniture. Nonononono. They should just have to _sit_ in the chair for six hours at a stretch once it's built. Let the punishment fit the crime :) And of course we can all think of clothing designers who should be subject to the same rule! -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 03:28:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26227 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:28:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N7FCE19225; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N7F6G07463; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6N7EdG07334 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723071438.55307.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:14:38 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: 14th Century French lady To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D3C14CC.25411.1971B43@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:14:38 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > I suspect it is what a person is used to. My legs chafe with fabric > like a Samoan lady's would do, because I'm *not* used to wearing > it. Those of you who always wear something between your legs > such as bike pants, nylons, etc probably get more chafed without it. I second to that. I always always ALWAYS wear trousers and have done for years because I hate skirts, the ionly time I wear skirts is when in costume. I wore my dress ONCE without any type of shorts/pants you name it, when I wore it te first time and I ended with the most horrid chafing it was SO painful and took a week or more to heal. I made myself after that a copy of the Charles II 1685 effigy underpants/shorts in linen, and voila, I'm ahappy bunny. It's not period (I'm not a man after all :-) but it makes me happy though I do have a patern for a Victorian crotchless seam open pant thingy and might try that. Portaloos with briefs AND shorts are near impossible to manage with those huge skirts. Hmmm... Nicole - life-long crossdresser ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 04:17:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02738 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:17:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N844E21235; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N843G18798; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N81rG18407 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.83]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZO003LSZN33R@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:01:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Web Errors/Jester Costume In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020723005606.00d72980@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:59:53 -0700 Status: RO >So to see the pictures, >http://www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/Costume/Jester%27s%20Outfit%201.jpg is >your best bet. They're lovely. :) I believe this for a woman, even for the late 1800s. Circus women wore less, and shorter 'pants'. The rhinestone pin looks 20s, as does the little face on the stick, but the outfit itself could be older. Thanx for including the inside view of the jacket. I love how the seams turn into the hems, and will use this trick myself someday, for something. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 04:29:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20294 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:29:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N8G3E21560; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N8G2G21292; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N8EZG20999 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05724.; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:15:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:14:29 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6N8EZG20999 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:14:13 +0100 Status: RO I stand corrected! This was told me by colleagues who have exchanged visits with Americans. I suppose experiences vary from region to region. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> sarah@elizabethanlady.com 07/22/02 05:44pm >>> > > > Yes, and I'm told that American motorists observe speed limits and don't > drive so aggressively as many British do. > > choke- anyone who says that has never driven on an American expressway!! Hehehehe. I was thinking the same thing. And it's worse in California... Road rage is basically the norm here, and everyone seems to drive enormous SUVs, barreling down the roads at 90 mph and blowing everyone else out of the lane. I don't even stick to the posted speed limit, but I get these jerks tailing me at 80mph, screaming on their cell phones while their yuppie brood bounces around unbelted in the back, watching movies on the onboard theater system. It's conspicuous consumption for the 21st century at it's most dangerous... Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:02:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA20923 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:02:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N8n5E22540; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N8n3G28320; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10302.mail.yahoo.com (web10302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6N8lsG28077 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723084753.91904.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.120.56.37] by web10302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:47:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207221640.g6MGeUG17764@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1835552776-1027414073=:91802" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: UK sewing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:47:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1835552776-1027414073=:91802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, should have said, yes I'd be interested in meetings - but for me it'd have to be over winter (too many events over summer (May - Sept)). And no, I now live near Leeds (West Yorks), although still can't drive - that's another winter project!!. By the way, somebody else on this thread mentioned Tanya from Anmod Dracon - she was wearing her new 15th century silk gown at Tewkesbury and it was absolutely gorgeous! Dark red, lined in gold, with white linen undersleeves - and being a silversmith, she's specially made the jewellery to go with it. Debbie. Well, Debbie, would you be interested in loose meetings nowadays, or are you still living in Newcastle? Nicole --- Debbie Lough wrote: > > Understand exactly how you feel! One of the medieval groups I'm with > (conquest) had a spate of events one the south east coast (UK) a few years > back. > > Given I was living near Newcastle at the time I often ended up making trips > of up to 400 miles each way! (And Newcastle's about a hundred miles or so > south of where Jean lives). > > Oh and I can't drive, so had to take the train, which was fun! > > Debbie Lough > ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1835552776-1027414073=:91802 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Sorry, should have said, yes I'd be interested in meetings - but for me it'd have to be over winter (too many events over summer (May - Sept)).

And no, I now live near Leeds (West Yorks), although still can't drive - that's another winter project!!.

By the way, somebody else on this thread mentioned Tanya from Anmod Dracon - she was wearing her new 15th century silk gown at Tewkesbury and it was absolutely gorgeous!  Dark red, lined in gold, with white linen undersleeves - and being a silversmith, she's specially made the jewellery to go with it.

Debbie.


Well, Debbie, would you be interested in loose meetings nowadays, or are you
still living in Newcastle?

Nicole

--- Debbie Lough wrote: >
> Understand exactly how you feel! One of the medieval groups I'm with
> (conquest) had a spate of events one the south east coast (UK) a few years
> back.
>
> Given I was living near Newcastle at the time I often ended up making trips
> of up to 400 miles each way! (And Newcastle's about a hundred miles or so
> south of where Jean lives).
>
> Oh and I can't drive, so had to take the train, which was fun!
>
> Debbie Lough
>


=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

__________________! ________________________________


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1835552776-1027414073=:91802-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:08:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21038 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:08:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N8tDE22711; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:55:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N8tCG29638; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6N8sLG29445 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723085421.53959.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:54:21 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: UK sewing To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020723084753.91904.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:54:21 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Debbie Lough wrote: > > Sorry, should have said, yes I'd be interested in meetings - but for me it'd > have to be over winter (too many events over summer (May - Sept)). For me too, the same dates, May - sept is re-enactment season time. > By the way, somebody else on this thread mentioned Tanya from Anmod Dracon - > she was wearing her new 15th century silk gown at Tewkesbury and it was > absolutely gorgeous! Dark red, lined in gold, with white linen undersleeves > - and being a silversmith, she's specially made the jewellery to go with it. > Debbie. Oh my, yes, this woman can sew! and embroider! and silvermith! and tablet braid! I hate her *grins* One of those people who just excel at anything they touch. Oh, I forgot to mention her cakes, yummy!!! Nicole - envious ;-) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:08:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21042 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:08:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N8t5E22697; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N8t3G29593; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10302.mail.yahoo.com (web10302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6N8rgG29310 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:53:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723085342.92570.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.120.56.37] by web10302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:53:42 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207221640.g6MGeUG17764@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-357663952-1027414422=:88566" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1092 - 16 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:53:42 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-357663952-1027414422=:88566 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Baildon, top end of Bradford. Anywhere near you?? >Freyalyn Not too far - I'm in Knottingley (by Ferrybridge at the M62/A1). I'd imagine it's about half an hour / 40 mins by car (longer for me, not being able to drive - as I said on another thread - learning to drive is a winter project to go along with the 1865 crinolined outfit!) ____________________________________________ --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-357663952-1027414422=:88566 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



>Baildon, top end of Bradford. Anywhere near you??

>Freyalyn


Not too far - I'm in Knottingley (by Ferrybridge at the M62/A1).  I'd imagine it's about half an hour / 40 mins by car (longer for me, not being able to drive - as I said on another thread - learning to drive is a winter project to go along with the 1865 crinolined outfit!)
____________________________________________


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-357663952-1027414422=:88566-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:08:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21047 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:08:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N8tLE22742; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:55:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N8tHG29672; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:55:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N8sQG29461 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:54:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKFHT7R5ZK001TFH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:54:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKFHT1KB4W001XUL@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:53:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:50:01 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:49:11 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:49:02 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle?s In-reply-to: <200207221640.g6MGeUG17764@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <26975164A85@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:49:02 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I signed up to both the lists they advertise on the web page, so > hopefully I am starting to keep ahead of it. :-) I need others to help > me get through the loooong event-free winter to acually sit down and > sew! I always end up going mad with sewing when the season has > started, I need either pressure or peer support. Who else has this > problem? I just can't start well ahead in time. Memememe! I simply cannot get ht ehang of starting things in time - I need that panic-fed adrenaline rush to kick start both my ability to start work on something *and* my ability to do a reasonable job of it. My last minute costumes have all come out far better (and lastel longer/been worn more) than the few pre-planned and started-in- advance ones.... but the *stress* involved is horrible! > > We (Wimbledon area) have a sewing room (built last year) and can > > offer spare beds to a couple of people, plus a sofa bed and a z bed > > and a couple of camp beds... by then we're about out of available > > floor-space. > > that makes it 6, yes? we have a couple of soldiers' folding camp > beds too. and air beds, maybe you need another extension. We have camp-beds and stuff to fill the spaces - so you may be right - another extension to provide more space... > hm, winbledon isn't that far away, we could drive for example. > about 1.5 hours if the M25 behaves (harharharhar and pigs can fly) Where are you coming from? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:11:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21110 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:11:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N8wME22845; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N8wLG00530; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:58:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N8vQG00294 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKFHWXEC34001Q46@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:57:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKFHWSAZEW001XUL@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:56:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:53:01 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:52:52 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:52:44 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS In-reply-to: <200207221640.g6MGeUG17764@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:52:43 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I like it because it breathes, it's often cheaper, and it's easier to > care for. It also feels better against your skin, IMHO. I always find > linen scratchy. A friend in Sweden has said this to me too... I've found te occasional linen scratchy but most of them, once washed, are wonderfully soft - to me at least. Is there a type of linen, perhaps, that has shorter fibres or something that results in a scratchier feel? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:18:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21241 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:18:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N957E23052; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N955G02057; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6N93ZG01688 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:03:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723090335.68646.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:03:35 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:03:35 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > A friend in Sweden has said this to me too... I've found te > occasional linen scratchy but most of them, once washed, are > wonderfully soft - to me at least. Is there a type of linen, perhaps, > that has shorter fibres or something that results in a scratchier feel? I personally don't think that there is adifferent 'scratchy' linen out there, but then I don't know what type of (maybe inferior?) linens are available oustide of Europe. I agree with Teddy (and am in fact wearing a linen shirt right now a work) that after a wash linen is beautifully soft. One should always (!) pre-wash anyway because of the shrinkage. The wonderful thing with linen is that it gets better and nicer the more you wash and wear it, until it falls apart. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:21:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21302 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:21:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N984E23135; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:08:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N982G02714; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N95EG02106 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:05:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKFI7Q6PCG001SZN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:05:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKFI6P14AQ001XUL@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:04:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:00:13 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:59:27 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:59:25 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting a project (WAS: UK Costume Sewing Circle?) In-reply-to: <200207222030.g6MKUDG04796@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <269A0EB4FCD@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:59:24 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I have no problem starting a project - I get lost somewhere in the > middle!! I have several projects floating around in various stages of > completion! I have thaqt problem with any project that has to be put asside unfinished (like when a more urgent deadline looms for something else).. it's part of the not beign able to start thing - I find it even harder to *restart* something that's been set aside unfinished than I do to start a completely new project and follow it all the way through. My "Unfinished Projects Pile" fills several stacking crates and some cupboards and drawers Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:21:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21312 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:21:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N98LE23157; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N98KG02795; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:08:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6N960G02243 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723090559.60818.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:05:59 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle?s To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <26975164A85@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:05:59 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > > > problem? I just can't start well ahead in time. > > Memememe! Gosh I'm soglad I'm not alone. :-) > I simply cannot get ht ehang of starting things in time - I need that > panic-fed adrenaline rush to kick start both my ability to start work Bingo, same here. I have to finish ben's coat for Kirby, but have I started yet??? no....... > on something *and* my ability to do a reasonable job of it. My last > minute costumes have all come out far better (and lastel > longer/been worn more) than the few pre-planned and started-in- > advance ones.... but the *stress* involved is horrible! Absolutely, I fell ill because of the exhaustion last time. That is not much fun at all. > We have camp-beds and stuff to fill the spaces - so you may be > right - another extension to provide more space... *grins* what about a garden shed for christmas? > Where are you coming from? The Medway towns. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:31:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21519 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:31:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N9I6E23422; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N9I4G24183; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:18:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10304.mail.yahoo.com (web10304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.82]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6N9FeG16807 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723091539.16845.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.120.56.37] by web10304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:15:39 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207230858.g6N8wGG00509@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1711458776-1027415739=:15072" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: design vs sewing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:15:39 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1711458776-1027415739=:15072 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I studied fashion at university, (till I decided that historic costume was far more interesting and left college to make some!). The thing that I noticed more than anything else was that apart from me, only two of the other students could actually sew when they arrived, (out of around 25!), and although sewing classes and design classes were given equal weight by the tutors, most of the students just weren't interested in learning to sew. (Despite being continually told that in industry they'd get absolutely no respect from cutters and machinists if they didn't at least know the basics.) On the theatre costume module, it seemed to be more important to be able to make a character sketch look lifelike than to be able to tell whether a costume would actually work. And as for the costume history classes - I knew more than the lecturer from my weekends spent at the local library, and my re-enactment (one stand up row later.....). So it doesn't surprize me that fashion / costume designers know hardly anything about fabric and sewing, (with obvious exceptions of those like Dior who went through apprenticeships, rather than college). Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1711458776-1027415739=:15072 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I studied fashion at university, (till I decided that historic costume was far more interesting and left college to make some!).

The thing that I noticed more than anything else was that apart from me, only two of the other students could actually sew when they arrived, (out of around 25!), and although sewing classes and design classes were given equal weight by the tutors, most of the students just weren't interested in learning to sew.  (Despite being continually told that in industry they'd get absolutely no respect from cutters and machinists if they didn't at least know the basics.)

On the theatre costume module, it seemed to be more important to be able to make a character sketch look lifelike than to be able to tell whether a costume would actually work.

And as for the costume history classes - I knew more than the lecturer from my weekends spent at the local library, and my re-enactment (one stand up row later.....).

So it doesn't surprize me that fashion / costume designers know hardly anything about fabric and sewing, (with obvious exceptions of those like Dior who went through apprenticeships, rather than college).

Debbie.


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1711458776-1027415739=:15072-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:42:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21728 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N9TPE23739; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:29:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N9TNG05797; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N9SfG05626 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:28:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A262F1020C; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:31:14 -0500 Message-ID: <001c01c2322b$02506180$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] While You Were Sleeping Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:26:21 -0400 Status: RO I told you all that early in the morning around 4 AM East Coast time... on the old game shows... designers show up. Well this morning, a 1950/60s designer named Micol Fontana was on "To Tell the Truth." For those who do not know who she is, the sisters, Zoe, Giovanna, and Micol Fontana were evening wear and bridal designers known for glamous and theatrical look. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 05:46:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21812 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:46:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6N9X5E23907; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N9X4G06831; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6N9UmG06223 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723093048.56516.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:30:48 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting and finishing a project (WAS: UK Costume Sewing Circle?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <269A0EB4FCD@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:30:48 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > I have thaqt problem with any project that has to be put asside > unfinished (like when a more urgent deadline looms for something > else).. it's part of the not beign able to start thing - I find it even > harder to *restart* something that's been set aside unfinished than I > do to start a completely new project and follow it all the way through. Oh yes! particularly embroideries. I have a project that I stpped years ago when I just didn't have that much time anymore. That's mebroidering in real gold the Birka deer onto pale rose silk to be sewn around the wrist cuffs, neck lineand hem of a dark red tunic. first of all i stopped crossdressing when i gained a female figure, and would have to turn the half finished tnuic into a dress, and secondly I don't even really do the period anymore, except at Viking York, and thirdly, when the heck do I find the time t embroider all the deers for the hem! Then there was the Coptic pegasus that got stopped 3/4 and is now framed in this state on my sister's wall. There's the Anglo-saxon cloak with its one (!) side/hem of silk and gold embroidery on silk, instead of all four! Not to forget the velvet mules with gold embroidery where I never got beyond the drawing of the design stage. and.. and.. and.. Oh, and who knows the phenomenon of the 'It's almost finished but notquite but I have to have it ready for an event tomorrow morning so I'll just wear it slapped up with a afety pin like that, no one will know, and finish it right afterwards' and they get NEVER ever finished.... Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 06:33:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22834 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:33:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NAK6E25195; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:20:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NAK2G17726; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NAJ8G17505 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKFKSGKACG001LZ8@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:19:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKFKSB94BW001UK2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:18:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:14:56 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:14:33 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:14:29 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: UK sewing In-reply-to: <200207230858.g6N8wGG00509@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <26AE14F4F02@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:14:29 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > By the way, somebody else on this thread mentioned Tanya from > Anmod Dracon - she was wearing her new 15th century silk gown at > Tewkesbury and it was absolutely gorgeous! Dark red, lined in > gold, with white linen undersleeves - and being a silversmith, > she's specially made the jewellery to go with it. I was there and I don't recall seeing anything that matched that description!!!! Waaaah! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 07:14:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23738 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:14:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NB1CE26549; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:01:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NB1AG26727; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NAwEG25903 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 04:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F335610EF8B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7044B10EF62 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ef01c23237$af2e1c60$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <269A0EB4FCD@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting a project (WAS: UK Costume Sewing Circle?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:57:06 -0400 Status: RO Oh, Teddy, trust me, when you make quilts as well the problem is many, many times worse. I have overflowing Rubbermaid tubs of projects!! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 5:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting a project (WAS: UK Costume Sewing Circle?) > > > I have no problem starting a project - I get lost somewhere in the > > middle!! I have several projects floating around in various stages of > > completion! > > I have thaqt problem with any project that has to be put asside > unfinished (like when a more urgent deadline looms for something > else).. it's part of the not beign able to start thing - I find it even > harder to *restart* something that's been set aside unfinished than I > do to start a completely new project and follow it all the way through. > > My "Unfinished Projects Pile" fills several stacking crates and some > cupboards and drawers > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 08:37:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28744 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:37:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NCO6E29134; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NCO4G16384; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta06ps.bigpond.com (mta06ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.138]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NCLTG15756 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:21:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.69]) by mta06ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06ps May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id GZPBNM00.0LW for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:21:22 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.17 ([203.54.114.17]) by PSMAM01.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 65/14097152); 23 Jul 2002 22:21:12 Message-ID: <3D3E3A63.9331091A@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle? References: <252B2CE150A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:25:55 -0700 Status: RO Teddy wrote: > > When we told them we had driven two days with an overnite stop > > from Missouri to attend they said some of the people in the UK > > would not consider coming even half that distance no matter how the > > event. Some of it is the gas prices I think. We have much lower > > rates then Europe. We also carpooled for the trip, sharing one or > > two vehicles. For one of the next trips we're even thinking of > > chartering a bus so we can have someone else do the driving. Split > > the price among a number of people and its quite reasonable. > > I think it's more than just the pertrol prices - I'm starting to get used > to the distances that people in the US consider reasonable for > getting places, but the mindeset over here seems (generally) to be > very different. Distances American friends have talked about for > day-trips wouldn't be thought of for anything short of an overnight > stay by lots of English people. Most of them would require a > weekend trip and there are people (my other half's parents, for > example) who would consider even a weekend trip as too short a > time for a journeys of those distances. > I recently got back from a 1200 km journey for an event (although we pegged a few days for visiting rellies in the same state on the end). This was a 3-4 day event and there were people who had come further. These sorts of distances are common for going to events in Australia, especially big events. People regularly come from Sydney for small events here, which is about 300km. For what it's worth, we drove the 1200km in one day, with only my husband driving. I guess it's just a matter of scale. I remember the seemingly endless drives to my nana's house when I was little, and since we were going from the Midlands to Yorkshire it couldn't have been more than a couple of hours. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 08:37:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28800 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:37:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NCOaE29157; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NCOZG16543; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:24:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp1out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp1out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NCNMG16203 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:23:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-168-32-190.nyc.rr.com [24.168.32.190]) by nycsmtp1out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g6NCMPZa003017 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:22:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Web Errors/Jester Costume - Thank God for geeks! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:58:35 -0300 Status: RO Laura Geek I just printed out your internet tip and filed it in my Computer Wisdom notebook. If it works for me, I will remember you fondly forever. Thanks for sharing Laura%27Little%20Lesson. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 08:48:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29795 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:48:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NCZ6E29561; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NCZ4G19421; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40010.mail.yahoo.com (web40010.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.28]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NCW2G18560 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723123156.71180.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:31:56 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting and finishing a project (WAS: UK Costume Sewing Circle?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020723093048.56516.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:31:56 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Nicole It's funny, but I find embroirdery projects the easiest to finish. My current one is a blackwork long cushion that if I am very diligent will take a good two years of work to complete (its 2.5 feet long!, but it will be worth it. The only problem is that I do alot of embroidery on a more professional basis (hence the musuem of costume at bath thread!) so I don't always get the time to spend on my own projects, but I always get them finished! The blackwork one is good because it has been drawn out using authentic methods, to an authentic pattern and will be embroidered in naturally dyed silk threads. Its costumes I have the trouble with. I am making a Lady's doublet from patterns of fashion (1560-1620) at the moment. It's the 1585 doublet, and I can do a little bit now and again but it just gets put back at the bottom of the work basket, probably becuase it involves too much thinking! I get enough of that at work! Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 08:54:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30542 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:54:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NCf4E29785; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NCf2G20830; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40010.mail.yahoo.com (web40010.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.28]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NCcZG20223 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:38:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723123830.71767.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:38:30 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle?s To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020723090559.60818.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:38:30 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- N Kipar wrote: > --- Teddy wrote: > > We have camp-beds and stuff to fill the spaces - so you may be > > right - another extension to provide more space... > > *grins* what about a garden shed for christmas? > Never underestimate the power of a group to fill up your garden shed. We have a huge shed in our garden and so my group has stored some of its furniture in there, there is hardly any room left! Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 09:15:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00347 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:15:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ND2CE01121; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:02:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ND2AG26888; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:02:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6ND0NG26291 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:00:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723130021.88512.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:00:21 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting and finishing a project (WAS: UK Costume Sewing Circle?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020723123156.71180.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:00:21 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Rachel wrote: > > Its costumes I have the trouble with. I am making a Lady's doublet from > patterns of fashion > (1560-1620) at the moment. It's the 1585 doublet, and I can do a little bit > now and again but it > just gets put back at the bottom of the work basket, probably becuase it > involves too much > thinking! I get enough of that at work! Well, Rachel, I guess we would have to 'push' each other then: you me for the embroidery, and I you for the costumes. ;-))) Anyone out there who would like to embroider a pair of velvet mules in gold raised embroidery for me? *grins* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 09:15:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00410 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:15:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ND2KE01133; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ND2JG26941; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ND1DG26554 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.71.22c3a5a9 (24895) for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:01:05 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: <71.22c3a5a9.2a6ead91@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold embroidery sources? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:01:05 EDT Status: RO Well--since you asked----Hedgehog Handiworks--(proprieters, Colin and Jodey Gorlick) have a very nice selection of metal treads---as well as lovely needlework tools ---and books for ALL sorts of needlework and costumning. Their catalogue is $5.00Their toll free number is 888-67-6040. Another favorite is TL Barnes Imports---which gets a lot of their metal threads directly from India.(some of them are bought by Hedgegog:) GREAT selection of metal threads. They also have an amazing selection of trims, and buttons. The proprieter, Lynnette, is a former student of mine--who does absolutely beautiful couched work with kanegawa gold. Those of you who are SCA members may have met her as Lady Rouge, who merchants and teaches at Pensic,Estrella, and other SCA events. Her daughter Tammy(Justina Marie) co merchants with her. They are both great to do business with. I don't know if they have a cataloque or website yet. Tammy's email is THLJMB@aol.com. godd luck!! Have fun!! Cheers --- Albra/Kathryn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 09:29:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02182 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:29:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NDG4E01903; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDG3G01550; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDFgG01446 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a210.in-tch.com [66.62.107.10]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6ND1mr29255 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:01:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3D5857.D8A9A3D7@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting and finishing a project (WAS: UK Costume Sewing Circle?) References: <20020723093048.56516.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:21:27 -0600 Status: RO Boy, I sure do understand *that*! As an embroiderer and costumer, too, I've got loads of unfinished projects, but I figure that's due, at least in part, to being process-oriented rather than goal-oriented! (sounds so much nicer that way, don't you think?....) I have one embroidery project that's been a constant companion for a couple of years now (I tuck into it's own special bag, and then into my backpack, so I can take it to work, etc.). I'm doing a mid-late 16th c. Italian shift of handkerchief linen, and I'm embroidering the whole thing in these itsy-bitsy blackwork "stripes" (in silk, of course! ), based on a 16th c. pattern and a couple of portraits that I've found that show this sort of embroidery. I have over 1000 hours in it so far, and I'm not quite half done..... On the wait-till-the-last-minute side of costuming, one of my first ItalianRens (made from a nice, dark blue velveteen) was made in a hurry for a dance competition oh--12? years ago, maybe 13. As I was also making the costumes for the other members of our little troupe, mine got left till last. I got everything done at home, except for the hem, which I *swore* I'd handle on the 24 hour trip south to the War (that's 24 hours straight, if you don't stop for too many meals, or to sleep). *snerk* Hem still wasn't done by the morning of the competition, so...we duct-taped it! (just about everyone in the SCA seems to have a roll of the stuff--it's very handy for more things than wrapping up rattan weaponry!). The pattern I'd used for my dress was a Medieval Miscellania one, and it was the first time I ever encountered their assumption that as you get larger in size, you must be also getting taller--and I am round, but short, so the durned skirt was _way_ too long, and the "extra" taken to the inside almost reached my *knees!*....the sad thing with duct tape, though, is that when I very carefully went to remove the duct taped hem so I could do it the real way, the duct tape pulled the velveteen pile right through the back of the fabric, leaving knee-high bald spots--big ones. Drycleaning it to remove the tape prevented any more bald spots, but did result in the duct tape forming little stiff spots all over the velveteen (which the cleaners had warned me might happen). I ended up turning 100 dollars worth of velvet into banners so we could hide the spots with applique! --Sue, who should be getting ready for work instead of playing on the computer! ;-) N Kipar wrote: > > Oh, and who knows the phenomenon of the 'It's almost finished but notquite but > I have to have it ready for an event tomorrow morning so I'll just wear it > slapped up with a afety pin like that, no one will know, and finish it right > afterwards' > and they get NEVER ever finished.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 09:32:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02684 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:32:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NDJEE02073; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:19:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDJCG02600; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40012.mail.yahoo.com (web40012.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.30]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NDHBG01925 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723131705.65586.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:17:05 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting and finishing a project (WAS: UK Costume Sewing Circle?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020723130021.88512.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:17:05 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- N Kipar wrote: > --- Rachel wrote: > Anyone out there who would like to embroider a pair of velvet mules in gold > raised embroidery for me? *grins* > Nicole If you are serious about this contact me off list and we can discuss. Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 09:44:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03998 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:44:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NDV8E02778; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:31:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDV6G06734; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDSrG05745 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:28:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a210.in-tch.com [66.62.107.10]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6NDExr03195 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:14:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3D5B6E.E3083D1B@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle?s References: <20020723123830.71767.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:34:38 -0600 Status: RO *Laughs* Our group has rather completely filled the garage space a member loaned us, so we've finally rented a storage space (there are lots in town, as we're a college town, and students tend to rent these spaces for the summer so they can store things without having to ship them back and forth). We got a 10' by 20' space, of which I personally am renting half to store all my fabric and project bins in (I easily have a dozen of those *really large* rubbermaid tubs). This move has forced me to go through all of the bins and inventory everything, so that I can mark the tubs, and know which contains what....I've got projects in there that are 10 years old and about which I no longer care one way or t'other. So I've been adopting them out to others in the SCA community who will finish them and use them! --Sue Rachel wrote: > > --- N Kipar wrote: > --- Teddy wrote: > > > We have camp-beds and stuff to fill the spaces - so you may be > > > right - another extension to provide more space... > > > > *grins* what about a garden shed for christmas? > > > > Never underestimate the power of a group to fill up your garden shed. We have a huge shed in our > garden and so my group has stored some of its furniture in there, there is hardly any room left! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 09:47:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04432 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:47:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NDYCE03068; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDYAG07797; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:34:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDXQG07537 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:33:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a210.in-tch.com [66.62.107.10]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6NDJWr04508 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3D5C80.8F5A2738@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS References: <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:39:12 -0600 Status: RO I've never personally encountered this with linen made from flax (I love the stuff and how *soft* it is....mmmmmm ), but perhaps the scratchiness is due to the presence of another bast fiber? or a finishing process? (and the individuals aren't washing the linen, but drycleaning it?) Or perhaps they have extra-sensitive skin? Or perhaps it's a coarser linen? --Sue, certified linen and natural fiber fiend Teddy wrote: > > > I like it because it breathes, it's often cheaper, and it's easier to > > care for. It also feels better against your skin, IMHO. I always find > > linen scratchy. > > A friend in Sweden has said this to me too... I've found te > occasional linen scratchy but most of them, once washed, are > wonderfully soft - to me at least. Is there a type of linen, perhaps, > that has shorter fibres or something that results in a scratchier feel? > > Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 09:51:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04934 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:51:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NDbFE03277; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDbDG08754; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21303.mail.yahoo.com (web21303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NDYcG07923 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723133437.644.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:34:37 PDT From: kj green To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D3D5857.D8A9A3D7@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] duct tape and velvet Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO One of life's little lessons. Velvet/velvetten and duct tape are two things that should *never* be combined! I did the same thing (duct taped hem) 5 years ago, but with $25/yd amethyst-colored cotton velvet...I still have it--it's not too badly de-nuded--the bad spots are about mide-calf with the worst places on the back of the skirt. I cried. The really sad thing is that the dress wasn't done when I wore it. I'd finished the bodice (took me over 40 hours to hand lay the trim), attached the skirt and sleeves and just plain ran out of time to finish the hem. However, the sleeves and skirt weren't done. They were to have trim on them too. The gown has been taken apart. I'm working on laying the gold on the upper sleeves. It has gold on each side of the 8 velvet sleeve panels velvet panel, then sateen panel, then velvet panel...total of 16 panels per sleeve) as well as the 4 skirt panels. I have found that each line of gold on the sleeve takes me about 3 hours to sew down. So maybe I'll be done sometime before the fabric disintegrates... The gown is based on Titian's La Bella Helena. kate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 09:51:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04955 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NDbdE03315; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:37:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDbNG08852; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:37:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:RGU7H2OwEDgmwlpPkK9LhXqcFtPZ4fL7@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDanG08558 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:36:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.64] (pool181-68.patriot.net [209.249.181.68]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6NDakRG006004 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:36:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020722.152214.-251755.0.catpurson@juno.com> References: <20020722.152214.-251755.0.catpurson@juno.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] home ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:34:51 -0400 Status: RO I was one of those who first learned to sew at home. My first home ec class was in junior high (when I was about 11 or 12). We had these little bins to store the project and tools. So the first 15 minutes of each class was spent waiting to get to the narrow closet, unpacking the tools, unrolling the project, and getting out the wrinkles so I could sew about one seam. Then fold it back up again, pack it in the little bin, wait to put the bin away in the narrow closet... How I missed having a whole room to myself, leaving my project lying on the ping pong table in between sewing sessions! My mother got to a certain point where she could no longer answer my questions, and insisted I take classes. At first I tried to listen to the teacher and do things the "right way", which sometimes went against my instincts and the results were not always good. I went to a Catholic high school, in the mid/late 70s. Sister tended to benevolently ignore the content of our projects, which tended to be Quiana prom dresses. Quiana was a very clingy, shiny knit synthetic, mostly known for the loud prints on men's shirts of the disco era. On our dresses (generally solid colors), they were clingy and probably indecent by her standards. But it worked for me, because we could work on the projects and get help as needed. And the storage was better. :-) College tailoring was probably my best class. I was into the SCA by then, and interested in old sewing techniques. Every time the teacher (Dr. Taylor, no kidding!) mentioned the traditional way of doing something, I did that. My coat had many more hand stitches than machine stitches on it. Of course, I have no idea how to use iron-on interfacing in a tailored coat (I hear it can be done), but that's ok. One of the more interesting sewing experiences was working as a stitcher in a theatrical costume shop. Suddenly I had to ask everything. Projects were passed around, and everyone depended on each other, so everything had to be consistent. It was quite a change after sewing all by myself for so many years. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 09:54:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05358 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:54:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NDf8E03532; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDf5G10105; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDe1G09686 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKFRSI1Y8W001XGH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:39:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKFRS7TK6O00216U@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:39:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:35:40 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:35:17 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:35:07 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle?s In-reply-to: <200207231306.g6ND6DG28202@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <26E39E71239@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:35:07 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > We have camp-beds and stuff to fill the spaces - so you may be right > > - another extension to provide more space... > > *grins* what about a garden shed for christmas? Please! Anything to replace the exisitng one (which was probably very nice, back in the 1930's when it was new and all in one piece!) > > Where are you coming from? > > The Medway towns. Where's that then? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 10:00:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05587 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:00:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NDl6E03887; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDl4G12083; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:47:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NDinG11298 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723134448.79870.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:44:48 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle?s To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <26E39E71239@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:44:48 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > > The Medway towns. > > Where's that then? http://www.ashville.demon.co.uk/gc2000/se_mtrnet.gif Pretty much where the Uni is. The ring around London is the *horror* 25. Nicole - who just started putting a gold brush fringe onto ben's pale kid leather gloves (costume content) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 10:12:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05625 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:12:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NDx7E04715; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:59:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDx3G16288; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NDuQG15473 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:56:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKFS5PWZ0W001XGH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:55:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKFS3PHSVC0021S2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:49:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:45:40 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:42:45 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:42:41 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting and finishing a project (WAS: UK In-reply-to: <200207231306.g6ND6DG28202@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <26E59B953D5@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:42:41 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Oh, and who knows the phenomenon of the 'It's almost finished but > notquite but I have to have it ready for an event tomorrow morning so > I'll just wear it slapped up with a afety pin like that, no one will > know, and finish it right afterwards' and they get NEVER ever > finished.... My 'Troll Queen' gown (gold brocade German Renaissance gown made from livingroom curtains discarded by a friend's mother when she redecorated, it got it's name form the costume convention Masquerade entry I first wore it for) existed for several years with nappy-pins holding the bodice and skirt together before someone I loaned it to ruined the bodice (I *told* him it wasn't meant to lace edge-to-edge!....) and I unpicked it all and re- used the fabric to make my cousin's Lucrecia Borgia gown. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 10:46:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05961 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:46:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NEX6E07731; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NEX3G01003; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from caerthe.org ([216.198.228.132]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NEV6G29998 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200207231034.AA26149346@caerthe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Melanie Unruh-Bays" To: X-Mailer: Subject: [h-cost] Matching patterns, was: Velvet cope at V&A Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:34:12 -0400 Status: RO This sounds like the cope that was on display with the (600 Years of English Art???) exhibit in Denver maybe three years ago. IIRC, the objects d'art were from the V&A, so perhaps... The one we saw was surprising in that the whole thing appeared to be pieced together with apparently no regard for the direction of the pile - so unlike modern methods of construction. Perhaps this was due to it's unfortunate history, but I was not aware of that until Teddy's post. I was working on a sarafan at the time, and had accidentially cut two of the four 1/4 circle peices the same. I agonized over this mistake, as there was exactly enough fabric, and I had custom dyed it besides. No way could I have gotten more. After seeing the cope, I took what scraps I had and pieced them in to fix the error. The piecing is sideways to the rest of the pattern, and you know what? It isn't noticable. I don't think anyone has seen it without me pointing it out. OK, so the sarafan is dated 250 years later than that English cope, but based on the extant example that I saw, I presumed that Medieval/Renaissance tailors were less concerned with matching patterns than we are today. Is this a valid conclusion, or am I completely off-base? Melanie ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Teddy Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:43:23 +0000 (GMT) >Hello folks, > >Drea and I managed to find time for a trip tot he V&A to look at that >cope.... > >Cope. 1330 to 50 > >Red velvet embroidered with metal thread and silk in underside >couching and split stitch with seed pearls, gold rings and beads. > >Cut up to make a chasuble, stole and maniple. > >Reassembled in 1854 > >Mounted in present form 1955. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 10:53:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05982 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:53:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NEe5E08258; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NEe4G04121; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NEbOG02948 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:37:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02669 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:02:23 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS In-Reply-To: <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:02:23 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Teddy wrote: > A friend in Sweden has said this to me too... I've found te occasional > linen scratchy but most of them, once washed, are wonderfully soft - > to me at least. Is there a type of linen, perhaps, that has shorter > fibres or something that results in a scratchier feel? Yes, I've run into it a couple of times. A friend of mine calls it "tow linen" and explained to me the difference in fiber refinement/processing that produces this cheaper grade, but I don't recall the details. I've also seen linen sacking that didn't have the twiggy bits fully removed. It was extremely coarse, but you can imagine it being used for sacking medievally -- and of course they were using linen for that, and many other "industrial" uses. And add me to the list of people who can attest that linen is more comfortable than any similar cotton, even under extremely hot conditions. I was quite surprised to see someone insist that cotton was more comfortable for her in hot weather and that it "breathes" better; I have found quite the opposite. Linen not only breathes, but it's actually cooler to the touch than cotton. It also shrinks less and wears better, even after intense sweating, brutal treatment, and frequent washings. If it's white, you can bleach it with impunity; cotton won't survive that over the long term. In wear, linen drapes differently -- none of the stiffness or creasing of cotton. That helps it achieve the visual look for historicals better than cotton does. The small wrinkles visible after you've washed and dried it tend to disappear while you wear it, as the linen picks up the heat and moisture of your body. Linen can be hell to cut and make up if you're doing anything with curves, because it deforms and stretches and crawls as you work with it. But that same quality allows it to mold to your body. Cotton doesn't do that. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 10:56:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06014 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:56:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NEhGE08526; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:43:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NEhDG05700; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:43:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NEfOG04754 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723144123.68831.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:41:23 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Matching patterns, was: Velvet cope at V&A To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207231034.AA26149346@caerthe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:41:23 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Melanie Unruh-Bays wrote: > > based on the extant example that I saw, I presumed that Medieval/Renaissance > tailors were less concerned with matching patterns than we are today. Is this > a valid conclusion, or am I completely off-base? It depends (and I'm only talking about 17th/18th century here!) Looking at where it shows, yes it matters a lot. For example the front of alovely silk damask waistcoat in the V&A is beautifully pieced together. The back? HA!!! Nothing like hat, the patern goes sideways, backways, wherever they managed to make it fit. it didn't matter because it didn't show. nteesting I always agonised about pocket flaps, but again, the extant examples I've seenjust cut them from wherever they could get a scrap, though usually on the grain/inthe same direction of the pattern. Now, mantuas, take the brocaded/patterned examples. They ae perfectly pieced in the back pleats on the bodice, but the sleeves? not necessarily. It seemed to be more amatter of 'where it shows and where I have to be flashy i go to the expense of using more fabric and cutting it to match. where it doesn't show, hey who cares, the fabric is already enormously expensive!' Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 11:10:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06153 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:10:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NEv5E09841; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NEv3G12612; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40204.mail.yahoo.com (web40204.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NEtLG11699 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:55:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723145515.60346.qmail@web40204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.189.83.254] by web40204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:55:15 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207222030.g6MKU9G04764@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: 14th century French lady Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Robin wrote: For instance, the pieces that are presented in "Dress and Textiles" as parts of a "skirt" feel pretty odd to me, given their extremely small size, the pleating at the top of one piece, and the implication of a waistline seam (that does not seem likely for styles of this time). I respond: Yup, I agree. I find that suspect as well, although if that fragment is from the mid-1400s, a pleated, separate skirt section may have been plausible. I can't remember where that fragment was dated to. Robin wrote: I think there are plenty of equally good possibilities for that group -- say, parts of a child's cloak, or maybe a worker's apron. And it's far more likely for a child to drop his cloak in the Thames, or a craftsman to lose an apron he'd temporarily slung over the back of his cart, than for a woman to lose half a dress :-) I respond: The authors also speculate that the remains of clothing may have come from the Great Wardrobe which was located in some geographically pertinent location to one or more of the dumps. If this could be true, the fragments may have come from the workrooms of royal tailors. Another supposition in the book is that the fragments represent the recycled bits of clothing scavanged and resold by second-hand clothing dealers. A tantalizing look at life through the scraps of centuries-old textiles... Robin wrote: (I know where you can get your hands on the wardrobe accounts of the three King Edwards, but they are unfortunately not yet translated. You'd need background in Latin, medieval French, and paleography, and a ticket to London ... and a few years to spare, probably.) I respond: One more activity to add to my "when I win the lottery" list! Are there actual plans to translate/publish, do you know? Tasha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 11:39:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06393 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:39:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NFPnE13200; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:25:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NFPiG28291; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:25:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NFNZG27159 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:23:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip8.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.8]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6NFNVq27944 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:23:31 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Matching patterns, was: Velvet cope at V&A Message-ID: <3D3D14D1.17875.3C0F803@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200207231034.AA26149346@caerthe.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:33:21 -0700 Status: RO OK, so the sarafan is dated 250 years > later than that English cope, but based on the extant example that I > saw, I presumed that Medieval/Renaissance tailors were less concerned > with matching patterns than we are today. Is this a valid conclusion, > or am I completely off-base? Not completely. They were not concerned about it in the same way. When recutting something or doing small piecings, they just did them (hence the cope and other clothing. See Janet Arnold, Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620). But they did have conventions. For example, the nap of a fabric would generally be up on the front and down on the back. There's practical reasons for this: it looks prettier up and it wears better when sitting down. It made cutting easier too. To get an idea about how they cut things, check out Juan Alcega's Tailor's Pattern Book 1589, the facsimile of his "Libro de Geometria, Patica, Y Traca." Also check out the patterns on Laurellen's site as she has found other manuscripts as well: http://www.vertetsable.com/ These are, of course, late, but they give us a good idea of the conventions and where piecing methods differ from modern ones (where they try to avoid it at all cost.) Extant garments can give us some ideas but since sometimes there are changes by later (not modernly trained) conservators which might be contrary to what would have been done in the period. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 11:39:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06394 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:39:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NFPVE13142; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:25:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NFPOG28088; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NFNUG27098 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip8.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.8]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6NFNMq27922 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:23:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS Message-ID: <3D3D14D1.25016.3C0F858@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020723090335.68646.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:33:21 -0700 Status: RO > I personally don't think that there is adifferent 'scratchy' linen out > there, but then I don't know what type of (maybe inferior?) linens are > available oustide of Europe. I agree with Teddy (and am in fact > wearing a linen shirt right now a work) that after a wash linen is > beautifully soft. One should always (!) pre-wash anyway because of the > shrinkage. The wonderful thing with linen is that it gets better and > nicer the more you wash and wear it, until it falls apart. > Nicole I adore linen, and have modern dresses and shirts as well as historic costumes in it. It has always been very soft. However, in the stores I've felt linens which have been horribly scratchy. Usually they are either inferior (which also goes along with making it "sheer" by having the threads further apart rather than by using finer threads in the weaving) or mixed with other fibres (like cotton or rayon.) I still wash and then iron (damp to dry) all my linens that I sew. I did get a kick out of one of my fabric definition books (where I was looking for some information on modern linen manufacture). It said that it was not necessary to preshrink linen! I had to laugh at that since I'd noticed that when I do preshrink it, I lose length (although not as much as with cotton.) But then, they expect people to dry clean the fabric after (which might make the fibres shrink less, but they won't be as soft as washed linen.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 11:39:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06401 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:39:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NFPhE13188; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NFPdG28241; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:25:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NFNWG27131 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip8.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.8]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6NFNSq27936 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:23:28 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Starting and finishing a project (WAS: UK Costume Sewing Circle?) Message-ID: <3D3D14D1.30669.3C0F8A3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020723093048.56516.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <269A0EB4FCD@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:33:21 -0700 Status: RO > --- Teddy wrote: > > > I have thaqt problem with any project that has to be put asside > > unfinished (like when a more urgent deadline looms for something > > else).. it's part of the not beign able to start thing - I find it > > even harder to *restart* something that's been set aside unfinished > > than I do to start a completely new project and follow it all the > > way through. Nicole replied: > Oh yes! particularly embroideries. I have a project that I stpped > years ago when I just didn't have that much time anymore. That's > mebroidering in real gold the Birka deer onto pale rose silk to be > sewn around the wrist cuffs, neck lineand hem of a dark red tunic. > first of all i stopped crossdressing when i gained a female figure, > and would have to turn the half finished tnuic into a dress, and > secondly I don't even really do the period anymore, except at Viking > York, and thirdly, when the heck do I find the time t embroider all > the deers for the hem! Most of my projects which don't finished have a reason which "blocked" it. I have a goldwork embroidery project which didn't get finished because the dress it was supposed to go with already served it's purpose. But it had to do it without the neckline because I was having eyeglass problems and couldn't work on it for more than 10 minutes at a time before the event where the dress was intended. (I should just put it out of sight so that it doesn't sit there accusing me.) My 1510 Flemish is waiting for me to work out how to do the bell sleeves with a square cut armscye. (I know it can be done, but I can't get the bell right with that armscye.) My 1540 Tudor is waiting for me to have a skilled friend get the neckline stabilization right (and the corset done, which isn't done because the eyelet making hurts my hands and I *have* to get my reunion dress done first.) I've got one or two other projects like that which are just waiting for something (like recutting after I gained weight as I was finishing the dress. Surprise!) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 11:42:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06430 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NFT3E13541; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NFT2G00188; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from caerthe.org ([216.198.228.132]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NFQfG28795 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200207231129.AA207552812@caerthe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Melanie Unruh-Bays" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold embroidery sources? X-Mailer: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:29:48 -0400 Status: RO ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: AlbraKat@aol.com Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:01:05 EDT >Another favorite is TL Barnes Imports---which gets a lot of their metal >threads directly from India.(some of them are bought by Hedgegog:) GREAT >selection of metal threads. They also have an amazing selection of trims, and >buttons. The proprieter, Lynnette, is a former student of mine--who does >absolutely beautiful couched work with kanegawa gold. Those of you who are >SCA members may have met her as Lady Rouge, who merchants and teaches at >Pensic,Estrella, and other SCA events. I believe that Rouge is planning on teaching and merchanting at KWCS III in Denver next October. I know it's over a year away, but we're very much looking forward to her being here. Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 12:20:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06528 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:20:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NG6UE17640; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NG6LG21609; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NG4JG20457 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03267 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:29:17 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th century French lady In-Reply-To: <20020723145515.60346.qmail@web40204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:29:17 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: > Yup, I agree. I find that suspect as well, although if that fragment > is from the mid-1400s, a pleated, separate skirt section may have been > plausible. Really? What are you thinking of specifically as plausible? I haven't seen much evidence that a mid-body horizontal seam was used as a structural element for full-length garments in England in the 1400s. Italy or Spain, perhaps. > (I know where you can get your hands on the wardrobe accounts of the > three King Edwards, but they are unfortunately not yet translated. > You'd need background in Latin, medieval French, and paleography, and > a ticket to London ... and a few years to spare, probably.) > One more activity to add to my "when I win the lottery" list! > Are there actual plans to translate/publish, do you know? I seriously doubt it, unless someone with the right background and nothing else to do decided to make it a personal project. Those three books are hardly the most important mansucripts (from a non-costumer's perspective) in the English national collections. I frankly wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the only people to touch the books in the last 200 years were myself and the researcher who showed them to me. I looked at Edward II's book just long enough to realize, "This is someone's life's work here ... but not mine." But I was sorely tempted. (I have the paleography background already, and the Middle English, though I'd need refreshers in both the French and Latin, and some additional research into abbreviations used in clerk hand of the mid-1400s, and a better grounding in economics, currency values, etc. Say, about two or three years full-time prep before I started work on the manuscripts proper. And each is an oversize book about two inches thick. But can you imagine how much data is in there?) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 13:23:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06752 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:23:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NHAEE25014; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:10:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHAAG00526; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe33.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NH5tG27794 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:05:50 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <20020723090335.68646.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2002 17:05:50.0677 (UTC) FILETIME=[324FB850:01C2326B] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:06:53 -0400 Status: RO > right now a work) that after a wash linen is beautifully soft. One should > always (!) pre-wash anyway because of the shrinkage. At least twice, in hot water. I got tricked once, pre-washed my linen in warm water only once and ended up with a tunic that kept shrinking and had to add a band at the bottom to make it long enough. Of course, it is much nicer now than before I added the bottom piece, but still :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 13:35:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06791 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:35:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NHLpE26185; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHLnG07439; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe69.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.204]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHGNG04219 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:16:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:16:17 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.48.35] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2002 17:16:17.0978 (UTC) FILETIME=[A83641A0:01C2326C] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:17:03 -0400 Status: RO > Linen can be hell to cut and make up if you're doing anything with > curves, because it deforms and stretches and crawls as you work with it. That's the reason why I LOVE working with linen... you can ease it into place, stretch it, tap it gently, and it just falls where it's supposed to go. Of course, you have to pin, not like cotton (I usually do without pinning cotton). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 13:47:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06861 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:47:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NHY7E27506; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHY4G14801; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHUIG12492 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:30:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020723173013.BDMU26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:30:13 +0000 Message-ID: <3D3D92A3.50104@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing research References: <3D3601CA.8010704@attbi.com> <000c01c22dfe$65a43a80$c82caf40@angelap3a8d978> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:30:11 -0700 Status: RO Thank you, Angela, for your help. I've seen and had some very minor experience with modern fabric printing. But my goal is to do it as period as possible with all of the reading and written research that goes with it. I'm planning on making this subject one of the items in a SCA Arts & Science project. Cabbage Rose wrote: >I do fabric printing all the time. It's fun, and can be really useful in my line of work. I just bought some stamps of Egyptian motifs, some gilded pigments in three shades from Dharma Trading and some clear acrylic to hold the pigments together. I mixed up this fabulous gold stuff and stamped away. I used it on white jersey (I'm making the Elvis/Pharoah from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat)... the color was strong and the stuff is drycleanable after being ironed. > What you have done sounds really nice. I wish I could see it. >I don't know about it's correctness of use for the periods you discussed, >but it can be used all over, for borders, whatever. It's particular useful when you want some design to accentuate the shape of a garment, like a border, because you can cut out your pattern piece and then make your border to fit perfectly, rather than buying a border fabric andbeing forced to cut everything in the one direction that works. Anyway, I love it. > >angela > It was suggested that maybe I should first make a wall hanging, which I think is a great idea. I was thinking about doing my heraldic device and my guy's heraldic device. But haven't come to a complete decision on the actual piece. Roscelin > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 13:48:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06865 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:48:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NHYQE27564; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHYGG14945; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [66.234.169.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHRjG11013 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:27:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200207231218.AA2108621052@mail.wireweb.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Alexandria Doyle" X-Sender: To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: 14th Century French lady X-Mailer: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:18:44 -0500 Status: RO >snip >> >> > I can't imagine that the whole of Medieval womanhood was >> > immune to these same issues. >snip > >I suspect it is what a person is used to. My legs chafe with fabric >like a Samoan lady's would do, because I'm *not* used to wearing >it. Those of you who always wear something between your legs >such as bike pants, nylons, etc probably get more chafed without it. > >From the time I was a teenager I have had to deal with chafing, then about a year or so I quit doing all those things I had been doing to avoid it, like hose with a dress and such. What I've found is that if I just slow down and take my time getting to where it is I'm going, I don't have chafing, sweat yes, no chafing. And I'm much cooler without the hose as well. Alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 13:59:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06897 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:59:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NHjsE28746; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:45:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHjpG21787; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:45:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHf2G18877 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020723174056.BQPQ26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:40:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3D3D9526.2000706@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing research References: <000501c22e0a$82130370$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:40:54 -0700 Status: RO Thank you, Kim, for the suggestion. I've been planning on going down to the library today to see what I can find out. Roscelin Kim Baird wrote: >There are lots of books on the subject. Start at your local library. >Hand block printing is a very expensive way to produce fabrics, but is >still done in a limited amount today. It was mostly superseded by roller >printing, and now also by silk screen. > >Kim > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 14:11:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06993 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:11:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NHvwE29970; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHvmG28798; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:57:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHnHG23748 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:49:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-relay04-en1.mac.com (smtp-relay04-en1 [10.13.10.223]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g6NHnHI0024140 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3.mac.com [10.13.10.65]) by smtp-relay04-en1.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g6NHnCtF006161 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GZPQTZ00.439 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:49:11 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 From: Agnes G To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3D3D92A3.50104@attbi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Thank you Teddy and Drea Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:49:46 -0700 Status: RO Thanks to Teddy and Drea for taking time out of their busy day to go to the V&A and look at that garment! I know very little about the time period involved but I do know that going to the V&A always takes more time than planned, and the bookstore is a dangerous thing to walk by. Thanks again! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 14:17:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07019 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NI46E00651; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:04:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NI45G02535; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHtfG27667 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ANGELA (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6NHtf4152750 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:55:41 -0400 Message-ID: <010401c23272$69283b20$9865fea9@ANGELA> From: "Angela F. Lazear- Cabbage Rose" To: References: <3D3601CA.8010704@attbi.com> <000c01c22dfe$65a43a80$c82caf40@angelap3a8d978> <3D3D92A3.50104@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:57:28 -0700 Status: RO It's a fairly primitive process, so I imagine that a wooden block with a design (rather than the rubber stamps I use) would be just the ticket. I don't know about the kind of dyes you would be allowed to use, but it's really a fun project to tackle. Good luck. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rose Amberwulf" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing research > Thank you, Angela, for your help. I've seen and had some very minor > experience with modern fabric printing. But my goal is to do it as > period as possible with all of the reading and written research that > goes with it. I'm planning on making this subject one of the items in a > SCA Arts & Science project. > > Cabbage Rose wrote: > > >I do fabric printing all the time. It's fun, and can be really useful in my line of work. I just bought some stamps of Egyptian motifs, some gilded pigments in three shades from Dharma Trading and some clear acrylic to hold the pigments together. I mixed up this fabulous gold stuff and stamped away. I used it on white jersey (I'm making the Elvis/Pharoah from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat)... the color was strong and the stuff is drycleanable after being ironed. > > > What you have done sounds really nice. I wish I could see it. > > >I don't know about it's correctness of use for the periods you discussed, > >but it can be used all over, for borders, whatever. It's particular useful when you want some design to accentuate the shape of a garment, like a border, because you can cut out your pattern piece and then make your border to fit perfectly, rather than buying a border fabric andbeing forced to cut everything in the one direction that works. Anyway, I love it. > > > >angela > > > It was suggested that maybe I should first make a wall hanging, which I > think is a great idea. I was thinking about doing my heraldic device > and my guy's heraldic device. But haven't come to a complete decision > on the actual piece. > > Roscelin > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 14:27:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07093 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:27:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NIEIE01856; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NIECG08328; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NI1EG00903 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:01:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04198 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:26:12 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: faking historical fabrics (WAS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:26:12 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > Linen can be hell to cut and make up if you're doing anything with > > curves, because it deforms and stretches and crawls as you work with it. > > That's the reason why I LOVE working with linen... you can ease it into > place, stretch it, tap it gently, and it just falls where it's supposed to > go. Yes. I've heard a lot of people say that they can't believe medieval people didn't use darts to pick up the bits of excess fabric in certain places on a fitted garment: "How can you *not* know about darts? The fabric just naturally folds that way, and it's obvious." I've found that's a reasonable view if you're used to using cotton, but if you're using linen, the "obvious" solution is to stretch and pull the fabric into place and mold it there without a fold. (And funny thing, you get a very different product -- one that's more consistent with the visual silhouette, and that provides the necessary elasticity and support.) Wool is equally flexible. Given that wool and linen were by far the standard fabrics for the bulk of the middle ages, I can quite easily imagine no need to invent the dart. Most of my fitting problems on the Gothic fitted dress disappeared when I stopped using cotton. When you work with linen (or wool) it's also important to remember that the fabric will relax as it picks up your body heat and moisture. So your fitting needs to take a few more minutes, and some extra steps to accommodate the relaxed shape. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 14:28:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07101 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:28:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NIEuE01964; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:14:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NIEmG08742; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:14:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (root@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu [128.200.119.150]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NI3KG02123 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:03:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UAOBRIEN.uci.edu (HIB435A.HNET.UCI.EDU [128.200.119.223]) by benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu (8.9.3/) with ESMTP id LAA26008 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020723110439.01bd17c8@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> X-Sender: uaobrien@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Ulrika A. O'Brien" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: design vs. sewing In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:06:34 -0700 Status: RO At 08:42 PM 7/22/2002, you wrote: >At 12:32 PM -0400 7/22/02, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >>As for objects being designed without any regard to comfort of use, that is >>infamous, especially if an architect designs it. Look at all the chairs in >>design books! For some reason, architects all want to design chairs. In my >>opinion, it ought to be against the law for an architect to design any item >>of furniture. > >Nonononono. They should just have to _sit_ in the chair for six hours at a >stretch once it's built. Let the punishment fit the crime :) Heh. Except if you're Frank Lloyd Wright and design to suit your own comfort then people of normal height may find the chairs uncomfortable anyway. (Wright was quite a short man, and did, apparently, design furniture to suit his own comfort without much sympathy for tall people. The little man's revenge!) Ulrika O'Brien English & Comparative Literature University of California, Irvine 435 Humanities Instructional Building (949) 824-6712 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 15:07:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07329 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:07:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NIrME05916; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:53:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NIr9G01321; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:53:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NIghG24915 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6NIi0m79810 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:44:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207231844.g6NIi0m79810@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] fabric source Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO has anyone ever found muslin a disposition? I'm always charmed by plates showing it in gowns from the 1850s, but I've never ever seen anything like it. Maybe one of the reproduction places has it? .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 15:36:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07464 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:36:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NJMtE08548; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:22:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NJMqG18589; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:22:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NJDAG12905 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKG2V54N4G00004F@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:12:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKFWEAG18W0020DM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:51:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:47:51 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:59:46 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.77) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:59:37 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Costume Sewing Circle?s In-reply-to: <200207231500.g6NF0SG14466@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <270A2691BF1@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:59:37 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > http://www.ashville.demon.co.uk/gc2000/se_mtrnet.gif > > Pretty much where the Uni is. The ring around London is the *horror* > 25. So why did I think you were living over to the *west* of London??? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 15:52:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07535 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:52:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NJcrE10041; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NJcnG27820; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:38:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40209.mail.yahoo.com (web40209.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.70]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NJVoG24013 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:31:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723193145.60497.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.189.83.254] by web40209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:31:45 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207231806.g6NI6iG04121@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] re: 14th Century French lady Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Robin wrote: Really? What are you thinking of specifically as plausible? I haven't seen much evidence that a mid-body horizontal seam was used as a structural element for full-length garments in England in the 1400s. Italy or Spain, perhaps. I respond: I was thinking of the Flemish art showing dresses with subtly gathered skirts. Van der Weyden shows such a style in a number of different works, and possibly other artists of his time and 'school', though I don't know without consulting the book I'm thinking of at home. I give credence to Van der Weyden's portrayal of clothing as he does such a painstaking job of capturing the drape, stitchery, and almost photo-realistic appearance of clothing in his works. With the Low Countries being so close to England and the active trade of cloth between the two areas being so prevalent at that time, I do not think it's beyond possibility that some styles portrayed in mid-15th century Flemish art may also have been found in urban centers in England concomitantly. However, since the Textiles and Clothing book ranges at MOST to 1450, this is a long-shot. It's not totally impossible, but like you, I'm more inclined to think it's a piece of something other than a skirt on a fitted dress. Tasha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 15:58:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07559 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NJjtE10705; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NJjrG01977; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:45:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NJd0G27962 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101E810F0E0 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AECD910EF8D for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <018301c23280$696d2b00$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020723110439.01bd17c8@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: design vs. sewing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:37:42 -0400 Status: RO > Heh. Except if you're Frank Lloyd Wright and design to suit > your own comfort then people of normal height may find the > chairs uncomfortable anyway. (Wright was quite a short man, > and did, apparently, design furniture to suit his own comfort > without much sympathy for tall people. The little man's > revenge!) Good for him, says I!! Dianne five feet nothin'---my feet never touch the floor, no matter what chair I'm sitting in! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 16:16:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07639 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:16:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NK2HE12412; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NK21G11124; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NJriG06750 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:53:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip40.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.40] (may be forged)) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6NJquo13975 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:53:17 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: 14th Century French lady Message-ID: <3D3D53DE.7157.4B74B9F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020723193145.60497.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200207231806.g6NI6iG04121@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:02:22 -0700 Status: RO > I respond: > I was thinking of the Flemish art showing dresses with > subtly gathered skirts. Van der Weyden et als paintings never looked gathered into the waist to me. Yes, a seam, but it seemed very much a plain seam. There are times when the belts make them appear more gathered (much like the men's cotehardies which have the low belts. There is no waist seam but the way the belt is pushed down from above makes it look like there must be gathering. But there isn't. It's the effect of the belt. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 16:24:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07682 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:24:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NKAKE13388; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NKABh16421; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:10:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NJxSG09611 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:59:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.83]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZP003J6WV30V@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:59:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing research In-reply-to: <010401c23272$69283b20$9865fea9@ANGELA> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020723122632.00c562a0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3D3601CA.8010704@attbi.com> <000c01c22dfe$65a43a80$c82caf40@angelap3a8d978> <3D3D92A3.50104@attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:34:30 -0700 Status: RO >It's a fairly primitive process, so I imagine that a wooden block with a >design (rather than the rubber stamps I use) would be just the ticket. I >don't know about the kind of dyes you would be allowed to use, but it's >really a fun project to tackle. Good luck. For primitive, read 'simple'. Linoleum blocks are easy to get, from well-stocked art supply stores, and they have no grain to deal with, as wood blocks do. (Carving linoleum is a lot like carving soap.) Get a book about linoleum block printing, and do whatever it says in there. These books usually have a little about printing on fabric (like curtains), especially the ones written in the 1950s. And the process is so simple you can do it on your kitchen table, or floor, on newspaper. (If it was me, I'd cut out the garment pieces before printing, so I'd have smaller pieces to print and so I could match up the printing on the cloth better.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 17:05:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07903 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:05:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NKpNE17356; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NKp9F11451; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14508.mail.yahoo.com (web14508.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NKkMF08542 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020723204621.18099.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.159.7] by web14508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:46:21 PDT From: Wolfcat Hall Subject: Re: [[h-cost] Re: shop and home economics] To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO *ugh* Home ec....I managed to escape until my first year of high school. My mother began teaching me embroidery and sewing when I was 4. I never managed crocheting and knitting from either her or my grandmother, but I haven't given up hope yet. I struggled with my mother because of our attitudes towards sewing, she is a very methodical by-the-book (early 40's and 50's sewing methods) person, and I wanted to make historical costumes or pieces based off of artwork. Nowadays she's rather amused at how much sewing and such I am doing, I send her photos of the pieces and information on what each piece was for and according to my brothers, she actually shows them off! (Side note, she's an extremely orthodox Latter-Day Saint, or "Mormon", with little tolerance for my historical and fantasy interests, although she's gotten better with age and distance. Being able to link more of it to geneaology for her helps immensely. She tracks down the family lineage, and I show her what our ancestors would have worn or done on a daily basis. *grin*) In our home ec class that I was forced to take, we had a full quarter of cooking, where my classmates ate all of the egg-based dishes when the teacher wasn't looking, since she refused to believe that I would be sick if I ate them. We had to sew a pillowcase and two articles of clothing, the pillowcase went to our local Cyndi Lauper/Boy George wanna-be, she cut it up and wore it as a piece of clothing. They also did a section on raising children and basic checkbook balancing/budget making. I'd have been happier in shop, more band, or taking art classes personally, havens, I too despised P.E. and would rather have taken another PE class than her class, sexual harassment or not. I couldn't stand that teacher and was *SO* glad that she retired before I would have had to work with her in that school district on a professional level. Angharad __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 17:12:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07942 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:12:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NKxEE18241; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NKxCF16104; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NKmbF09828 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05367 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:13:36 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: 14th Century French lady In-Reply-To: <20020723193145.60497.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:13:36 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: I wrote, much too fast: > Really? What are you thinking of specifically as > plausible? I haven't seen much evidence that a > mid-body horizontal seam was used as a structural > element for full-length garments in England in the > 1400s. Italy or Spain, perhaps. And I was completely fried when I wrote that. I was thinking *mid-1300s*, or 14th century, since that's what we were talking about on this thread, and that's when the fragments (I think) supposedly were dated to. Yes, of course, by mid-1400s, there are waistline seams all over the place, particularly in Flemish art. I'm sorry I didn't catch that before you had to take the time to explain! My apologies. > However, since the Textiles and Clothing book ranges at MOST to 1450, > this is a long-shot. It's not totally impossible, but like you, I'm > more inclined to think it's a piece of something other than a skirt on > a fitted dress. Yep. The size of the pieces make the "skirt" interpretation shaky, too. I think there are many other possibilities that are far more likely. But then, the person who wrote the text for that section had a rather shaky understanding of garment construction for 14th century, as evidenced by her discussion of waistline seams at this point, and also the completely off-kilter presentation of the Greenland finds as fitted dresses. But that's another thread, and one we've had ... many times ... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 17:40:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08034 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:40:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NLQuE21134; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NLQpF02075; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NLHeF26795 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:17:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05535 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:42:40 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th century French lady In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:42:40 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Yeesh. I'm really not in good form today. I just looked back over my earlier post, and I made the same mistake twice: > But I was sorely tempted. (I have the paleography background already, and > the Middle English, though I'd need refreshers in both the French and > Latin, and some additional research into abbreviations used in clerk hand > of the mid-1400s, and a better grounding in economics, currency values, > etc. Mid-1300s. Mid-1300s. I will cut-and-paste that on the virtual blackboard 100 times. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 17:49:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08059 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:49:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NLa3E21990; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NLa1F07225; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NLVPF04637 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:31:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17X7Fb-000Ffo-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:31:24 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:30:03 +0100 Status: RO I'm not familiar with this term "plait braiding". Is it the same as fingerloop braiding? Can you describe or show us an example? Jean Colleen McDonald wrote >Hi everyone, > >More developments on the 14th century Italian dress project. I've been >racking my brain and discussing with list members on what techniques >would be used to make the trim on the sleeve ends and neckline of the >purple dress in The Last Judgment (Nardo di Cione, Santa Maria Novella, >Florence, 1350's). The most recent answer was some kind of tablet >weaving. > >I think I might have found the solution this weekend. I was discussing >it with one of the ladies who runs Patiche (Asha) and she suggested >that tablet weaving might not be flexible enough to go around a >neckline like that without being pieced. She said that plait braiding >(the precursor to bobbin lace) was often used for trim and was highly >flexible. They even had some trim that was plait braided. > >I bought a yard of the stuff to have for reference and about fifteen >minutes later, another lady at the event and I had managed to smooth >the straight yard of trim into an almost complete circle with no >wrinkles and no puckers. I was practically jumping up and down with >excitement! > >So, next question for everyone here, any book suggestions for learning >plait braiding? > >Best regards, > >Colleen >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 17:55:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08075 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:55:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NLgpE22679; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NLgmF11023; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:42:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NLYgF06456 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17X7In-000Fy5-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:34:41 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian fancy dress References: <200207211946.MAA22311@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200207211946.MAA22311@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:33:22 +0100 Status: RO Oh gugh! I'm really sorry, we set this up really quickly. I think it works for people using Internet Explorer, but you're right, possibly not for Unix. Could you ll please just kill this thread for a few days while I get it sorted? Sorry!! Jean Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote > >>Sorry people, the address needs a capital C - >> >>www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/Costume >> >>Apologies to those who couldn't find the page. > >Clicking on the Jester's Outfit links produces a File Not Found. >The two things I can think of are: you have spaces in the filename >(bad for unix systems) or you haven't set the permissions on the >files correctly and therefore we can't access them. > >Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 >Head Muso, White Rats Morris >Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. >"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 18:10:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08127 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:10:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NLv2E24129; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NLuqF19102; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:56:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NLpiF16166 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.195.248] (as3-4-6.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.195.248]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6NLphK27174 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020721225703.47340.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020721225703.47340.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] Re: 14th Century French lady Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:36:33 -0700 Status: RO At 3:57 PM -0700 7/21/02, Tasha Kelly wrote: >Roscelin wrote: >"It has been mentioned and shown that German women may >have worn >sleeveless chemises during the 14th century - could >French or English >women also wear this type of chemise at times?" > >Apparently Italian women did... There's a painting of >a large group crowded around a birth bed, and a lady, >possibly a wet nurse, is sitting in the foreground. >She has a sleeveless chemise with a belt secured >tightly under her breasts, as though to provide some >support. Can't remember the painting's name or artist, >though, at the moment. I keep meaning to contribute a data-point to this thread, and then not being around my file cabinet when I think of it. In an illustrated ms. of "Historia Troiana" from ca. 1450 Germany, shows a couple getting out of bed and putting their clothes on. She first puts on a sleeveless shift that bears a strong resemblance to some of the "Bohemian bathhouse babe" outfits -- narrow straps over the shoulders attached to a clearly-visible band going around over the breasts and under the arms, which edges the top of the garment. While wearing this, she is manipulating a gown in preparation to putting it on, supporting the idea that the sleeveless garment is an ordinary under-garment rather than some special-purpose garment. (Her boyfriend has put on what appears to be a short-sleeved undershirt, and he's wearing the most amusing almost-not-there underpants, tied in a bow on each hip.) I found the pictures in "Liebesfreuden im Mittelalter" by Gabriele Bartz, Alfred Karnen, and Claudio Lanse (Belser Verlag, Stuttgart, 1994). Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 18:24:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08190 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:24:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NMBpE25612; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:11:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NMBnF27226; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:11:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NM2rF22421 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip60.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.60]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6NM2Tq05929 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:02:40 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim Message-ID: <3D3D7259.23646.52E60F1@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:12:25 -0700 Status: RO > I'm not familiar with this term "plait braiding". Is it the same as > fingerloop braiding? Can you describe or show us an example? > Jean It is different than fingerloop braiding. The simplest "plait braid" is what we do to hair with 3 strands. Most plait braiding takes many more strands, however. It is still used for some passamentarie. I had some wonderful (machine, not that I had done) plait braid that looked like Celtic knotwork. A funny one to look at that is done this way is the thread in some cheap sewing kits. They are done in all sorts of colors and you just pull to get the thread you want (and then you start losing the pattern). But they are plait braided to begin with often times. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 18:33:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08265 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6NMK6E26462; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NMK3F02168; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NMDcF28314 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17X7uU-00007F-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:13:38 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Plait braiding solution for trim Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3D3C0AC4.997.16FEA43@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:22:14 -0400 Status: RO OK. I went looking for a copy of the Collingwood book, and found the Susan's Fiber shop had it. Email address is: Susan McFarland susanfiber@internetwis.com or you can do a web search for Susan's Fiber Shop. Happy hunting. -Megan > _The Techniques of Ply-Split Braiding_ by Peter Collingwood (ISBN > 0-9625586-9-9) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 20:43:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08741 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:43:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O0UFE05239; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:30:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O0UEF28488; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O0AZF22267 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:10:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust205.tnt4.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.239.214.205] helo=hppav) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17X9je-0003IC-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:10:34 -0400 Message-ID: <005c01c232a6$ec713fc0$cdd6ef41@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] OT: Cat Stuff Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:13:20 -0500 Status: RO Found this in my sunday paper. http://www.largelypro.com/haikus.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 22:06:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09017 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:06:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O1r5E09134; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O1r3F23227; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O1lhF21772 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a245.in-tch.com [66.62.107.45]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6O1Xn922171 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3E0899.78DC218E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric source References: <200207231844.g6NIi0m79810@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:53:29 -0600 Status: RO Never even heard of it, but then I don't know much about 19th c. costume. What kind of muslin is it? --Sue, curious.... Heather Meadows wrote: > > has anyone ever found muslin a disposition? I'm always charmed > by plates showing it in gowns from the 1850s, but I've never ever > seen anything like it. Maybe one of the reproduction places has it? > > .heather. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 23 22:12:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09034 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:12:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O1wqE09361; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O1wlF24944; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O1mPF21995 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust205.tnt4.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.239.214.205] helo=hppav) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17XBGK-00040S-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:48:24 -0400 Message-ID: <00a101c232b4$97330300$cdd6ef41@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Shops in the UK Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:51:11 -0500 Status: RO Thanks, Teddy, White, off-white or enven black would be ok. Thats what dye was made for. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 00:02:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10063 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:02:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O3n6E15041; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O3n0F26487; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O3jkF25656 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:45:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id VAA10476 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:05:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200207240405.VAA10476@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > It is different than fingerloop braiding. The simplest "plait braid" is > what we do to hair with 3 strands. Most plait braiding takes many > more strands, however. It is still used for some passamentarie. I > had some wonderful (machine, not that I had done) plait braid that > looked like Celtic knotwork. In other words, the type of braiding you'd find in a sailors' handbook? For making sea mats and bolsters and such? I've found that those same knots and plaits show up in japanese kumihimo books and books on chinese decorative knots and braids. If I've understood you, you mean a typical _braided_ strand. Ah, I know the other place I've seen that stuff... traditional leatherworking uses round, hollow and flat braids quite often. I have too little time and too many cats to do this stuff much anymore, But I've still got all my books. In fact, I just added a kumihimo and a corn dolly book to my collection this week. ;} But for wide braids, look for _Leather Braiding_, by Bruce Grant ISBN 0-87033-039-X. He has a 21-strand flat braid in there, as well as round, and square braids and every sort of decorative lacing you can think of. Another good book is _The Book of Decorative Knots_, Peter Owen, ISBN 1-55821-304-X. Chapter 6 is "Sinnets" or braids, chapter 7 is "Flat Knots" (using Turk's Head knots to make a flat pattern, or an extended carrick bend knot to produce a fairly spectacular piece that can be couched down) and chapter 8 is "Applied Decorative Knots" which talks about frogs, brocade knot buttons, and a couple crafty-type projects. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 00:17:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10100 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:17:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O44CE15854; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:04:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O449F01221; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:04:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O3sEF27985 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020724035409.VOWR19639.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 03:54:09 +0000 Message-ID: <006e01c232c5$c2f509a0$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <200207231844.g6NIi0m79810@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <3D3E0899.78DC218E@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric source MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:54:07 -0700 Status: RO It's fabric (and it doesn't have to just be muslin) that's printed or woven with a border for use in 1850's skirt flounces. I think it mainly refers to the fabric being woven for a specific pattern piece/part of the dress. Some examples: http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/792.jpg http://www.centraalmuseum.nl/database/Kleur.phtml?GeenTerug=1&ItemId=51 http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1.asp?dep=8&full=0&item=1977%2E304% 2E1 http://www.centraalmuseum.nl/database/Item.phtml?ItemId=53&Terug=1 - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric source > Never even heard of it, but then I don't know much about 19th c. > costume. What kind of muslin is it? > --Sue, curious.... > > Heather Meadows wrote: > > > > has anyone ever found muslin a disposition? I'm always charmed > > by plates showing it in gowns from the 1850s, but I've never ever > > seen anything like it. Maybe one of the reproduction places has it? > > > > .heather. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 00:49:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10223 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:49:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O4apE17764; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O4anF10311; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:36:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O4VHF08772 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m132.in-tch.com [216.166.191.132]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6O4GQ911559 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3E2EB7.7723ABAD@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric source References: <200207231844.g6NIi0m79810@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <3D3E0899.78DC218E@in-tch.com> <006e01c232c5$c2f509a0$befc8218@WERNTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:36:07 -0600 Status: RO Hey, those are pretty (I liked the second one, except for the bows down the front , and the last one...less fussy?)! I like the sort of curved lines of the bodice (shoulders slope, the vertical design lines curving in), contrasted with the fullness of the skirts. I'd imagine you'd have to be using fairly light, crisp fabric on these to make it work, wouldn't you? or am I completely off-base? --Sue, who's beginning to suspect that there's very little historical clothing that she *doesn't* like......;-) Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > It's fabric (and it doesn't have to just be muslin) that's printed or woven > with a border for use in 1850's skirt flounces. I think it mainly refers to > the fabric being woven for a specific pattern piece/part of the dress. > > Some examples: > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/792.jpg > http://www.centraalmuseum.nl/database/Kleur.phtml?GeenTerug=1&ItemId=51 > http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1.asp?dep=8&full=0&item=1977%2E304% > 2E1 > http://www.centraalmuseum.nl/database/Item.phtml?ItemId=53&Terug=1 > > - Kendra > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:53 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric source > > > Never even heard of it, but then I don't know much about 19th c. > > costume. What kind of muslin is it? > > --Sue, curious.... > > > > Heather Meadows wrote: > > > > > > has anyone ever found muslin a disposition? I'm always charmed > > > by plates showing it in gowns from the 1850s, but I've never ever > > > seen anything like it. Maybe one of the reproduction places has it? > > > > > > .heather. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 01:38:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10389 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 01:38:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O5PjE19692; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O5PfF22794; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:25:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O5DKF19501 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.187.84.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.187.84]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17XESc-0002Sp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 01:13:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Linen and bloomers (WAS: Re: faking historical fabrics) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:38:17 -0700 Status: RO At 9:52 AM +0000 7/23/02, Teddy wrote: > > I like it because it breathes, it's often cheaper, and it's easier to >> care for. It also feels better against your skin, IMHO. I always find >> linen scratchy. > >A friend in Sweden has said this to me too... I've found te >occasional linen scratchy but most of them, once washed, are >wonderfully soft - to me at least. Is there a type of linen, perhaps, >that has shorter fibres or something that results in a scratchier feel? I have ten yards of very lightweight linen that is _horribly_ scratchy. It was bought off a Jo-Ann's sale table for something like $2.99 a yard, so I'm actually not terribly surprised that I'm having problems with it (you get what you pay for). I've occasionally found other linen to be scratchy at first, but this stuff I've washed several times and I still can't bear the idea of wearing it next to my skin. And of course I bought it to make smocks and bloomers out of (thus neatly tying two threads together!). I can't help wondering if it's been sized to death, or maybe has bits of tow in it or something. I think I mentioned it on this list a couple of years ago and was advised either to "just keep washing" or else to wet it, freeze it, and then rub it and work it back and forth as it thaws. Haven't been close to a big enough freezer since, with enough time to do that, though ;) OTOH, all of the really _expensive_ lightweight linen I've ever handled has been nice and soft and lovely..... As for underpants or bloomers, my Renaissance guild admits cheerfully that they're not Elizabethan, but strongly suggests them for comfort and modesty for any woman who (1) dances or (2) performs up on a stage. Our guild's cook was in a stage show years ago, *not* wearing such things, tripped over something on stage, and went head over teakettle, Revealing All to everyone behind her on stage (fortunately not the audience, this is supposed to be a family show!). Most of us have plain white or dark colored knee-length things, gathered at waist but not knee. (I used a clown costume for the pattern for mine.) Since the temptation to do silly take-offs on history is always with us, some of the other guilds who do Renaissance fairs with us seem to make a point of wearing bloomers of the loudest, most outrageous fabric they can find -- lime green with yellow happy faces, purple Elvis prints, tropical fish, screaming plaids, et cetera. This is fine until they trip or something, and there goes the 16th century atmosphere. We, of course, look down from our infinitely superior position and point out loftily that _everyone_ knows that the thing to make out of green and purple dragon fabric, passionate red with black lace hearts, or pink fabric with hairbrushes printed on it is one's CORSET. _That_ hardly ever gets seen by accident! :))) -- ____________________________________________________________ O Christian Ashley, gentlewoman to Lady Stafford | Chris Laning + Guild of St. George, Northern California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 03:02:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA31753 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 03:02:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O6nlE22681; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O6niF13662; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O6dWF11500 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020724063926.MALL8192.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:39:26 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c232dc$daaab650$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <200207231844.g6NIi0m79810@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <3D3E0899.78DC218E@in-tch.com> <006e01c232c5$c2f509a0$befc8218@WERNTO> <3D3E2EB7.7723ABAD@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric a disposition (WAS: fabric source) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:39:25 -0700 Status: RO As far as fabric a disposition, I've seen it done in many different fabrics of widely different weights. Some of those silhouettes would definitely require a light, crisp fabric. I've wondered about the possibility of buying one of those border-printed fabrics and cutting off some of the width in order to make flounces. The problem would be finding a print/weave that's appropriate... - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric source > Hey, those are pretty (I liked the second one, except for the bows down > the front , and the last one...less fussy?)! I like the sort of > curved lines of the bodice (shoulders slope, the vertical design lines > curving in), contrasted with the fullness of the skirts. I'd imagine > you'd have to be using fairly light, crisp fabric on these to make it > work, wouldn't you? or am I completely off-base? > --Sue, who's beginning to suspect that there's very little historical > clothing that she *doesn't* like......;-) > > Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > > > It's fabric (and it doesn't have to just be muslin) that's printed or woven > > with a border for use in 1850's skirt flounces. I think it mainly refers to > > the fabric being woven for a specific pattern piece/part of the dress. > > > > Some examples: > > http://www.ucad.fr/mmt/chrono/1846-1865/792.jpg > > http://www.centraalmuseum.nl/database/Kleur.phtml?GeenTerug=1&ItemId=51 > > http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1.asp?dep=8&full=0&item=1977%2E304% > > 2E1 > > http://www.centraalmuseum.nl/database/Item.phtml?ItemId=53&Terug=1 > > > > - Kendra > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sue Clemenger" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric source > > > > > Never even heard of it, but then I don't know much about 19th c. > > > costume. What kind of muslin is it? > > > --Sue, curious.... > > > > > > Heather Meadows wrote: > > > > > > > > has anyone ever found muslin a disposition? I'm always charmed > > > > by plates showing it in gowns from the 1850s, but I've never ever > > > > seen anything like it. Maybe one of the reproduction places has it? > > > > > > > > .heather. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > h-costume mailing list > > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 03:19:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05559 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 03:19:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O76gE23195; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 01:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O76fF17374; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 01:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O6pXF14036 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:51:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.83]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZQ00L7XR1W6P@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:51:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen and bloomers (WAS: Re: faking historical fabrics) In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020723233109.00c9e7a0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:50:54 -0700 Status: RO >I have ten yards of very lightweight linen that is _horribly_ scratchy. It >was bought off a Jo-Ann's sale table for something like $2.99 a yard, so >I'm actually not terribly surprised that I'm having problems with it (you >get what you pay for). OTOH, I got some linen yardage out of a free box in Berkeley, and it never was scratchy, even before I washed it. And I doubt that it had been previously washed. >As for underpants or bloomers, my Renaissance guild admits cheerfully that >they're not Elizabethan, People keep saying that. They do so too exist in period, mostly from Italian and French influence. Mary, Queen of Scots wore them, probably because of her Italian mother-in-law when she was married to the Dauphin of France and living in France. They weren't universally worn, especially by the lower classes. Davenport has photos of a matching set of sixteenth century Sicilian underwear, including two shirts, a pair of footless stockings, and two pairs of drawers (p.633, ills. 1689-1693). In the caption for these pieces (on p.634), she says "Undererawers, like most refinements of dress, originated in Italy. Moryson mentions "silke or linnen breeches under their gownes" as being characteristic of Italian townswomen's dress. He says that they are not worn at all in Germany; they were obviously none too common in his native England at the end XVIc." Apparently this eyewitness disagrees with 21st century 'common knowledge'. >We, of course, look down from our infinitely superior position firmly in cheek> and point out loftily that _everyone_ knows that the >thing to make out of green and purple dragon fabric, passionate red with >black lace hearts, or pink fabric with hairbrushes printed on it is one's >CORSET. _That_ hardly ever gets seen by accident! :))) I made a corset lined in pink cotton child-nightgown flannel on which are printed little corsets. I found a remnant just big enough to do this. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 04:10:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16565 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 04:10:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6O7vgE24621; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 01:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O7vfF28495; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 01:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10305.mail.yahoo.com (web10305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.83]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6O7f5F24829 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 01:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020724074104.45722.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.120.56.37] by web10305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:41:04 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207231306.g6ND6DG28202@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-531357172-1027496464=:44354" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1097 - 15 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:41:04 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-531357172-1027496464=:44354 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > By the way, somebody else on this thread mentioned Tanya from > Anmod Dracon - she was wearing her new 15th century silk gown at > Tewkesbury and it was absolutely gorgeous! Dark red, lined in > gold, with white linen undersleeves - and being a silversmith, > she's specially made the jewellery to go with it. >I was there and I don't recall seeing anything that matched that >description!!!! Waaaah! >Teddy I probably wouldn't have seen it either, but she came to show me it, because I pointed her in the direction of the silk supplier. And Nicole's right, Tanya is one of those people who are just good at whatever they turn their hands to! Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-531357172-1027496464=:44354 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> By the way, somebody else on this thread mentioned Tanya from
> Anmod Dracon - she was wearing her new 15th century silk gown at
> Tewkesbury and it was absolutely gorgeous! Dark red, lined in
> gold, with white linen undersleeves - and being a silversmith,
> she's specially made the jewellery to go with it.

>I was there and I don't recall seeing anything that matched that
>description!!!! Waaaah!



>Teddy


I probably wouldn't have seen it either, but she came to show me it, because I pointed her in the direction of the silk supplier. 

And Nicole's right, Tanya is one of those people who are just good at whatever they turn their hands to!

Debbie.


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-531357172-1027496464=:44354-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 09:22:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23327 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:22:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OD94E05170; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OD91F07994; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.228]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OCqjF03341 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-168-32-190.nyc.rr.com [24.168.32.190]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g6OCsXkl016894 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:54:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] fabric source - a comment and a question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <006e01c232c5$c2f509a0$befc8218@WERNTO> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:17:43 -0300 Status: RO The comment: re. "muslin" - I have lately been reading more carefully Godey's, Peterson's, etc. descriptions of their plates. Muslin is usually included with the summer sheers. I get the impression (somebody who really knows, please tell us) that "muslin" was more like organdy. The museum dresses I've handled are often quite sheer but also quite crisp. Alas, the tag usually is noncommittal - "cotton - 1859-1861" for example. The question: those are wonderful images from the Centraal. How did you find them? I'm having trouble getting into their system. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 10:51:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23686 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:51:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OEcIE11256; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:38:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEcCF10696; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O7skF27799 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 01:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.83]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZQ00IAFTZ9K9@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:54:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric a disposition (WAS: fabric source) In-reply-to: <001401c232dc$daaab650$befc8218@WERNTO> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020724005123.00c99360@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200207231844.g6NIi0m79810@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <3D3E0899.78DC218E@in-tch.com> <006e01c232c5$c2f509a0$befc8218@WERNTO> <3D3E2EB7.7723ABAD@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:54:39 -0700 Status: RO >As far as fabric a disposition, I've seen it done in many different fabrics >of widely different weights. Some of those silhouettes would definitely >require a light, crisp fabric. And some were done with fabric that was lined to get it that way. >I've wondered about the possibility of buying one of those border-printed >fabrics and cutting off some of the width in order to make flounces. Do it. And make the bodice and sleeves out of the parts you cut off - they did. >The >problem would be finding a print/weave that's appropriate... Not really. Shirt-weight cotton, like what quilters use, ought to do fine. There are other weights they used in period, and other fibres, but the range of printed cotton is enormous. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 10:53:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23691 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:53:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OEeFE11452; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:40:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEeEF11650; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6O9MlF15600 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 03:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKGX3XVU1S0005WY@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:22:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKGX3X8YMC000483@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:22:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:18:41 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:18:11 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:18:02 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thank you Teddy and Drea In-reply-to: <200207231806.g6NI6mG04172@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <281F1834EB2@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:18:02 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Thanks to Teddy and Drea for taking time out of their busy day to go > to the V&A and look at that garment! > > I know very little about the time period involved but I do know that > going to the V&A always takes more time than planned, and the > bookstore is a dangerous thing to walk by. > > Thanks again! You're welcome. It was actually the shortest visit I've ever made to the V&A.... It would have been shorter still but Drea found out that I'd never been to the textiles room.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 10:54:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23696 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:54:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OEeME11472; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEeJF11693; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:40:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6OAeiF03049 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 04:40:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020724104044.87963.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:40:44 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:40:44 +0100 (BST) Status: RO I have recently discovered with the help of really fine portraits what kind of buttons were used on c 1700 gentlemen's shirts when they did use buttons instead of the two-buttonholes-with-ribbon method. They were these thread-woven 'Dorset buttons' where one uses a ring and then weaves the white thread in and out and so on, to create the button. Does anyone know if it is possible to buy those buttons (I remember they used to be on my grandmother's bed linens as well) already made? I have a description on how to make them but I really don't have time to do hat, I rather buy those. Has anyone heard of a source for them? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 10:55:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23703 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:55:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OEerE11560; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:41:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEebF11905; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:40:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40208.mail.yahoo.com (web40208.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.69]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6OD7mF07655 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020724130743.3193.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.20.208] by web40208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:07:43 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207232205.g6NM5AF23615@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15th century Flemish lady (was 14th cent) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > Van der Weyden et als paintings never looked > gathered into the waist to me. Yes, a seam, but it > seemed very much a plain seam. > Kat Hi Kat, If you have a good source (not necessarily the Web, where all detail is lost to bad resolution), you may want to look at: Dieric Bouts' The Descent from the Cross, left wing -- the lady at the foot of the cross is painted with an overtly gathered/pleated skirt; Van der Weyden's Triptych of the Seven Sacraments (the lady in red looks very much like she has subtle gathering in the back of her skirt, regardless of the very loose belt; Van der Weyden's Triptych of the Adoration of the Magi which shows a lady in the right panel wearing a bright green dress. From the relatively high-quality picture I have, you can just barely make out what might be a slightly dropped waist seam and a few folds of fabric that start distinctly at that point. There may be other representations, but I'm only privy to one book: _Rogier van der Weyden_ by Dirk de Vos, ISBN: 0-8109-6390-6. Tasha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 11:07:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23746 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:07:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OErXE12736; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OErQF18430; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.siscom.net (1012@shell.siscom.net [209.251.2.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ODnEF20542 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (drea@localhost) by shell.siscom.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA66782 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:49:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from drea@nospam) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] fabric source - a comment and a question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I've seen both very sheer and drapey muslins, and very sheer and crisp muslins in regency gowns. One way to achieve the crispness is to use a solution of gum arabic when ironing your gown. This is from an 1830s receipt book. I'll see if I can rustle up the details. Drea On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Martha Kelly wrote: > > The comment: re. "muslin" - I have lately been reading more carefully > Godey's, Peterson's, etc. descriptions of their plates. Muslin is usually > included with the summer sheers. I get the impression (somebody who really > knows, please tell us) that "muslin" was more like organdy. The museum > dresses I've handled are often quite sheer but also quite crisp. Alas, the > tag usually is noncommittal - "cotton - 1859-1861" for example. > > The question: those are wonderful images from the Centraal. How did you > find them? I'm having trouble getting into their system. > > Martha > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 11:07:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23751 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:07:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OEsIE12800; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEriF18662; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:53:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEXaF08638 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m200.in-tch.com [216.166.191.200]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6OEJf929157 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3EBC1A.EF85D11A@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:39:22 -0600 Status: RO Hi, everybody. I'm looking at this one image from the Manesse Codex, and durned if it doesn't look like the lower part of his sleeves and the front seam from his collarbone to his neck are buttoned....Whaddya think? (this is the gentleman on the left in the red outfit, bottom half of the page) http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/133.jpg Virtually all of the other tunic-garments (as opposed to surcoats and mantles) that I saw in the Codex had tight lower sleeves, but this is the only garment I remember seeing that also looked like it had a collar, if not a proto-collar of some sort. It's also the only one I say which seemed to be depicting buttons..... Somehow, I'd pictured button usage as being later that this, but I very well may be wrong.....I'm wondering if the fact that this seems to be the only garment with depicted buttons (I looked at most, but not all, of the 130+ images, so there may be another one in there) indicates that buttons were a rarity? perhaps a further development of the tight-sleeve style? or was the artist simply not depicting the buttons on the other sleeves? --Sue, full of early-morning musings, and not nearly enough caffeine.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 11:07:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23752 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:07:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OErjE12760; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OErbF18579; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:53:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEPKF05087 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m200.in-tch.com [216.166.191.200]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6OEBQ925983 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3EBA2A.D21D0235@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:31:06 -0600 Status: RO While digging about in the Manesse Codex this morning, looking for ideas for my next outfit, I found this image: http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/135.jpg The second figure from the left, in the yellow tunic, has long hair AND a beard! In all of the others pictures that I examined, only women had long hair, while the men's tended to be about chin-length. Does anybody know if this is depicting an allegory, or if these are performers of some sort? (there are several scenes in the Codex that have musicians and dancers, so.....) It's also one of the only ones I recall seeing wearing a *yellow* tunic (there were a few that were parti-colored or striped and had yellow), and all of those seemed to be men as well..... Just thought I'd throw this out for comments! --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 11:11:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23769 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:11:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OEptE12613; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEprF17690; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEeLF11720 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m200.in-tch.com [216.166.191.200]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6OEQQ901836 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:26:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3EBDAE.6959E698@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Another question from the Manesse Codex Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:46:06 -0600 Status: RO Geez, I'm chatty this morning.... One of the things I noticed when looking at the garments that the people were wearing in these images was the persistent appearance, on the necklines of both men and women, of this broad sort of collar? yoke? running roughly about where the collarbone sits, and a few inches wide. I did not see it in any color except gold, and it seems to be particular to outer tunics and surcoats. I did see a few images in which a similar band appeared on the cuffs of a man's tunic, but.... I'm wondering...are these integral parts of the garment? or are they depictions of jewelry of some sort? I sure didn't see much evidence at all of any other kind of jewelry, and I'm not at all familiar with the styles and customs of Germany during the 13th c..... Here's a sample of what I mean: http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/017.jpg Thanks, Sue.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 11:17:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23784 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:17:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OF43E13640; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OF42F23676; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEnBF16326 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m200.in-tch.com [216.166.191.200]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6OEZG905562 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3EBFC1.1FB534DE@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? References: <20020724104044.87963.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:54:57 -0600 Status: RO I sure haven't heard of a source for them, although I've got articles on how to do them....they don't look too difficult, although I certainly understand the time issue! --Sue, in already-hot Montana (in the 90s again today....yech!) N Kipar wrote: > > I have recently discovered with the help of really fine portraits what kind of > buttons were used on c 1700 gentlemen's shirts when they did use buttons > instead of the two-buttonholes-with-ribbon method. They were these thread-woven > 'Dorset buttons' where one uses a ring and then weaves the white thread in and > out and so on, to create the button. > Does anyone know if it is possible to buy those buttons (I remember they used > to be on my grandmother's bed linens as well) already made? I have a > description on how to make them but I really don't have time to do hat, I > rather buy those. Has anyone heard of a source for them? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 11:22:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23795 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:22:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OF8bE14100; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OF8YF26076; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OEtaF19577 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:55:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKH8QFZ4I80006VR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:55:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKH8QDZFLC000A2X@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:55:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:51:22 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:50:59 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.73) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:50:54 +0000 From: Teddy In-reply-to: <200207241440.g6OEesF12102@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2877D9755E9@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tewkesbury...? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:50:53 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > >I was there and I don't recall seeing anything that matched that > >description!!!! Waaaah! > > >Teddy > > I probably wouldn't have seen it either, but she came to show me it, > because I pointed her in the direction of the silk supplier. > > And Nicole's right, Tanya is one of those people who are just good at > whatever they turn their hands to! > > Debbie. OK, Debbie, which group at Tewkesbury are you with....? And if I know you but haven't made the right connections, I appologise, but I've always been terrible with putting the right names to the right faces. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 12:19:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23998 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:19:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OG6CE20330; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OG63F28819; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:06:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OFquF21440 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11398 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:17:59 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 15th century Flemish lady (was 14th cent) In-Reply-To: <20020724130743.3193.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:17:59 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Kat wrote: > > Van der Weyden et als paintings never looked > > gathered into the waist to me. Yes, a seam, but it > > seemed very much a plain seam. Tasha replied: > Dieric Bouts' The Descent from the Cross, left wing -- > the lady at the foot of the cross is painted with an > overtly gathered/pleated skirt; Can you please supply a little more detail about this painting so I can locate a reproduction of it -- e.g. what collection is it in? I have about 30 books and maybe 400 slides of Flemish art, so I probably have it somewhere. If she's at the foot of the cross, she's almost certainly a Magdalen. Obligatory caveat: Van der Weyden, and most of the Flemish painters who followed, did some wild things with Magdalens and certain other Biblical/historical figures. So, unless there's corroborating evidence from more "normal" characters, any particular detail is suspect. Some (e.g. hats, skirt slits, trims) are more suspect than others, as they were deliberately used to indicate that the character was foreign, legendary, saintly, or otherwise "other" in character. Magdalen was a special case, in that she is depicted as being cutting-edge fashionable (she was the equivalent of a courtesan, after all) as well as foreign/other, so the idea of "fashion" can take some real flights of fancy. (I have a fun lecture on this.) > Van der Weyden's Triptych of the Seven Sacraments (the lady in red > looks very much like she has subtle gathering in the back of her > skirt, regardless of the very loose belt; OK, that's a Magdalen, of the stylistic category of "half-undressed distress." Van der Weyden, and some of those who followed him, give us nice examples of Magdalen in her underdress, indicating she had other things on her mind that day than getting properly done up for public display. In this case, I'm uncertain just what's going on at the back. It may be pleats (though not likely gathers) into a seam at the back waist. However, it's also possible that she did something I've seen on other 15th century Flemish figures: hiked up the skirt a few inches at the back waist and pinned (or basted?) the fabric into a horizontal tuck. Because the horizontal measurement at the hip is much wider than at the waist on a flared skirt, the excess fullness of the fabric, which would normally spread over the tush, has to go somewhere when you pull it up, and so it forms an informal group of pleats at the back waist. What's making me think this way on this one is the fact that the belt rises a bit above the waist seam level on the back, and lies gently along the top of what would be the pulled-up area, which would form a ridge on which the belt might sit. Conversely, if this were actually a seam, the seam would not be straight across at the back, but have an odd rise at back waist. However, there may be just too much fullness here to make the "pulling up" idea a legit interpretation. It's hard to tell -- I have six or seven reproductions of this painting in books, but none are clear. I will have to go back to the slides I took of this painting in Antwerp. I think I may have a closeup of this lady. But, um, don't expect me to get to it today. > Van der Weyden's Triptych of the Adoration of the Magi which shows a > lady in the right panel wearing a bright green dress. From the > relatively high-quality picture I have, you can just barely make out > what might be a slightly dropped waist seam and a few folds of fabric > that start distinctly at that point. Assuming I've got the right painting (Munich, Pinakothek, the St. Columba Altarpiece?), she's Mary's companion, another Biblical/legendary figure (see her hat and the skirt slit? dead giveaways). Her back waist may be OK, though. It looks pleated to me, not gathered. If so, what this tells us is that pleating into the back seam was not unknown. From a practical standpoint, it also makes sense. It's during this period that a second form of the fitted underdress appears -- the original version being cut in one length with no waist seam, and the new version (showing up around 1440-50) having a waist seam. The waist-seam version apparently did not replace the cut-in-one version, as both continue to appear frequently in art for the last half of the 1400s. Now, it happens that one of the most annoying parts of the fitting of a cut-in-one fitted dress is the small of the back. It's common to get a crease there, if the woman has a fairly large expansion of the hip or a sizable protrusion of the tush below a smallish waist. There are several ways to fit around this. On a cut-in-one dress, the two best solutions seem to be fitting the curve of the back vertically on the back seam and/or adding a gore in the center back. If you have a waist seam, though, that adds the opportunity to make the back waist of the skirt a little larger than the back waist of the bodice section, and you can take up the excess width needed to make it around the hips by pleating in the difference at the waist. I think this is what we see in dresses such as the Seven Sacraments example. But ... it's also important to note that this applies only to the back waist. In fact, I can't think of any examples from Franco-Flemish fashion of this period that have pleats all the way around, and I can't recall examples of waist *gathers* at all. If we view the back pleats as a solution to the tush-expansion wrinkle, it makes sense that the pleats would only be here, as a technique for fitting closely over a lump. The idea of pleating a skirt into a bodice all the way around -- just as a means of skirt attachment -- is inconsistent with the overall silhouette of this time, as it would add bulk in places where you don't want bulk. The fullness of the skirt at front and sides still seems to be achieved primarily by flare, and the top of the skirt, where possible, fits neatly and plainly into the waist seam, as Kat described. So, the silhouette of the fitted dress remains substantively the same at the waist/hip level, with the chief differences in the two versions (waisted and waistless) occurring above the waist, in the placement of the bosom and the structure of the bodice section. (As with almost everything I say about Flanders, this is not necessarily the case in Italy.) So, more food for thought. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 12:39:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24123 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:39:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OGP7E22315; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OGOxF10217; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OGArF01905 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17XOix-00085y-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:10:51 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen and bloomers (WAS: Re: faking historical fabrics) X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:10:51 -0400 Status: RO > I have ten yards of very lightweight linen that is _horribly_ > scratchy. It was bought off a Jo-Ann's sale table for something like > $2.99 a yard, so I'm actually not terribly surprised that I'm having > problems with it (you get what you pay for). I've occasionally found > other linen to be scratchy at first, but this stuff I've washed > several times and I still can't bear the idea of wearing it next to > my skin. And of course I bought it to make smocks and bloomers out of > (thus neatly tying two threads together!). The absolute *best* linen I ever got my hands on was by a total freak of nature. It was a going out of business sale for House of Fabrics (which, I belive, was bought up by JoAnn's) about 10 years ago and my mom and I were dutifully raiding the sale tables whereupon she found an entire bolt of the finest, softest, drapiest, loveliest white linen on the planet for something like $2.00/yard. We bought the remainder of the bolt which amounted to roughly 10 yards or so. I currently have one corset I never wear made from it and a high-necked Elizabethan chemise that gets regular abuse. It wrinkles like a bitch, but it's absolutely heavenly fabric and very much the antithesis of the linen I've been able to find lately from places like Pheonix Textiles and Fabrics-Store.com, which tend toward the scratchy, coarse side of things. Incedentally, at that same sale I scored 5 yards of the most gorgeous dress weight burgundy wool which will one day, I swear, become a good Elizabethan petticoat bodies. Honest. > > I can't help wondering if it's been sized to death, or maybe has bits > of tow in it or something. I think I mentioned it on this list a > couple of years ago and was advised either to "just keep washing" or > else to wet it, freeze it, and then rub it and work it back and forth > as it thaws. Haven't been close to a big enough freezer since, with > enough time to do that, though ;) I'm just guessing, but I don't think it's the sizing so much as the actual fiber that's beind used. I know *nothing* about producing linen, but it seems to me that in comparison between the really fine lovely stuff and the more recent linen purchases I've made, the quality of the fiber is different. Maybe the manufacturers are using a lesser quality plant? Cheaper processing of the plant? I dunno... I do know that, yes, after a zillion washings the coarser linen becomes less coarse, but it sort of begins to pill at a certain point, which I'm guessing has something to do with the way the fibers were spun to begin with (this stuff tends to be rather slubby, and the only thing I can think of that is similar is silk duiponi, so it makes me wonder if the manufacturers are using broken fibers spun together, creating a coarser weave that isn't as strong... Could be way off base with this, though). The fine linen chemise, however, has stood up to rigorous washings and wearings over the last 5 or so years and has remained as smooth and lovely as it was when I first bought the material. And not in the least bit itchy. :) > As for underpants or bloomers, my Renaissance guild admits cheerfully > that they're not Elizabethan, but strongly suggests them for comfort > and modesty for any woman who (1) dances or (2) performs up on a > stage. Our guild's cook was in a stage show years ago, *not* wearing > such things, tripped over something on stage, and went head over > teakettle, Revealing All to everyone behind her on stage (fortunately > not the audience, this is supposed to be a family show!). Most of us > have plain white or dark colored knee-length things, gathered at > waist but not knee. (I used a clown costume for the pattern for mine.) I'm split over the issue of wearing bloomers for comfort... They tend to make me sweat more, mainly because its one more layer of clothing to deal with, but OTOH, they're so darned cute! > > Since the temptation to do silly take-offs on history is always with > us, some of the other guilds who do Renaissance fairs with us seem to > make a point of wearing bloomers of the loudest, most outrageous > fabric they can find -- lime green with yellow happy faces, purple > Elvis prints, tropical fish, screaming plaids, et cetera. This is > fine until they trip or something, and there goes the 16th century > atmosphere. Well, it's still better than unninentionally mooning the audience, especially with the fact that REC holds it's performers to that good 'ol PG rating. > > We, of course, look down from our infinitely superior position > and point out loftily that _everyone_ knows > that the thing to make out of green and purple dragon fabric, > passionate red with black lace hearts, or pink fabric with > hairbrushes printed on it is one's CORSET. _That_ hardly ever gets > seen by accident! :))) Heh. I think I need to make more amusing underwear... ;) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 13:09:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24419 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OGgbE24111; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:42:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OGgYF21049; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:42:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OGGCF04992 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17XOo5-0005L0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:16:09 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:16:09 -0400 Status: RO > While digging about in the Manesse Codex this morning, looking for ideas > for my next outfit, I found this image: > http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/135.jpg > > The second figure from the left, in the yellow tunic, has long hair AND > a beard! LOL! I have an ex-boyfriend who looked *exactly* like that prior to cutting his hair. The resemblence is uncanny... ;) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 13:28:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24649 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:28:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OHD0E27288; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHCvF09644; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:12:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OGkcF23513 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:46:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip173.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [208.187.52.173]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6OGkWq17572 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:46:33 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen and bloomers Message-ID: <3D3E79AC.11366.93326DF@localhost> Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020723233109.00c9e7a0@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:55:56 -0700 Status: RO > >As for underpants or bloomers, my Renaissance guild admits cheerfully > >that they're not Elizabethan, > > People keep saying that. They do so too exist in period, mostly from > Italian and French influence. Mary, Queen of Scots wore them, > probably because of her Italian mother-in-law when she was married to > the Dauphin of France and living in France. They weren't universally > worn, especially by the lower classes. But as she said, they're not Elizabethan. They are French, Italian and Spain (where they started but then segued to Italy with the Spanish people who took over parts of Italy.) > Davenport has photos of a matching set of sixteenth century Sicilian > underwear, including two shirts, a pair of footless stockings, and two > pairs of drawers (p.633, ills. 1689-1693). In the caption for these > pieces (on p.634), she says "Undererawers, like most refinements of > dress, originated in Italy. Moryson mentions "silke or linnen > breeches under their gownes" as being characteristic of Italian > townswomen's dress. He says that they are not worn at all in Germany; > they were obviously none too common in his native England at the end > XVIc." Apparently this eyewitness disagrees with 21st century 'common > knowledge'. It's interesting to see the influx of them into Italy. There are some charming letters written about the subject (and the "townswomen's" reactions to them) from either the d'Este sisters or Lucrezia Borgia (and I don't have time to look them up right now.) These ladies (who were considered very "fast" in their day) brought them from Spain (where they were evidently much more common, although still more among the "fast" crowd than the "nice" ladies.) Their discourse reminded me a lot about the reaction to pierced earrings back in the late '60 where it went from something only "girls from the wrong side of the tracks" did, to something (by the mid '70's) that even my ultra-religious mom did! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 13:28:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24657 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:28:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OHDfE27369; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:14:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHDPF09894; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OGkhF23584 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:46:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip173.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [208.187.52.173]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6OGkbq17580 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:46:38 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 15th century Flemish lady (was 14th cent) Message-ID: <3D3E79AC.25026.933277A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020724130743.3193.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200207232205.g6NM5AF23615@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:55:56 -0700 Status: RO > Hi Kat, > If you have a good source (not necessarily the Web, > where all detail is lost to bad resolution), you may > want to look at: Thanks, Tasha, I'll look them up. I've got tons of books on the artists of that time (several on Van der Weyden if you count the museum catalogues too.) (No time right now. Barely time to do email. Got to get that reunion dress done!) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 13:28:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24665 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:28:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OHDZE27358; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHDLF09844; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OGkeF23544 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:46:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip173.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [208.187.52.173]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6OGkZq17575 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:46:35 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim Message-ID: <3D3E79AC.20670.933272F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200207240405.VAA10476@gw.retro.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:55:56 -0700 Status: RO > > It is different than fingerloop braiding. The simplest "plait braid" > > is what we do to hair with 3 strands. Most plait braiding takes many > > more strands, however. It is still used for some passamentarie. I > > had some wonderful (machine, not that I had done) plait braid that > > looked like Celtic knotwork. > > In other words, the type of braiding you'd find in a sailors' > handbook? For making sea mats and bolsters and such? Yes, although those tend to be of specific size (dependant upon your rope diameter) rather than in yardage like Colleen wants. (It's why I didn't add the knot book references I have to her list.) I've found that > those same knots and plaits show up in japanese kumihimo books and > books on chinese decorative knots and braids. If I've understood you, > you mean a typical _braided_ strand. Ah, I know the other place I've > seen that stuff... traditional leatherworking uses round, hollow and > flat braids quite often. Yes. The plait refers to the flatness of the braid, as opposed to round, spiral, hollow, etc. That's why I listed the Japanese and Peruvian sources, is that they do. (But Collingwood is still the best for what she wants.) > But > for wide braids, look for _Leather Braiding_, by Bruce Grant ISBN > 0-87033-039-X. He has a 21-strand flat braid in there, as well as > round, and square braids and every sort of decorative lacing you can > think of. Oh, great. One I don't have. Sigh. Another good book is _The Book of Decorative Knots_, Peter > Owen, ISBN 1-55821-304-X. Got this one, but deliberately left it off her list. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 13:46:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24857 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:46:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OHVbE29319; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHVaF20515; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host11.avidhosting.com (host11.avidhosting.com [209.239.33.204]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHH7F11991 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip105.access-one.com [198.247.160.105]) by host11.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6OHH1s32123 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:17:01 -0400 Message-ID: <002701c23335$fc365e60$69a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2330C.075C2A60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Subject: [h-cost] Processing Linen Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:17:07 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2330C.075C2A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe this short bit will help you with why some linen is more scratchy = than others. First off- linen is a bast fiber- that means it comes from the stem of = the plant- the best flax is pulled up by the roots in the flowering = stage, and allowed to dry- most flax is now raised to produce linseed = oil so the fiber is not as much bred for as it used to be- so modern = variations may be a bit less desirable.=20 The flax is first laid out in bundles to dry thoroughly and when this is = accomplished it is put in a still source of water (like a pool or = trough) and allowed to "rett" or rot for a few days- this helps break = down the outer stem fiber. It is taken out after a suitable period and = allowed to dry again. The linen is then scrutched- or broken, by beating = it or breaking the stem down in a special device. It is then ready to = hackle- the first hackle looks like big iron nails driven into a board = and the flax is brought down upon it and pulled through these "nail = bristles" to break up the fibers and take off the outer "shell" of the = stem. The coarse fiber from this is called tow- and may have outer bits = of stem in it. The fiber from the flax is then hackled through = repeatedly finer "hackles" the finest being similar to a fine steel wire = brush- what is left by the finest brush is your finest and longest = fibers. As the flax progresses through each brush or hackle some is left = behind in the brush and that is your coarser shorter fiber. It will have = to be twisted tighter in spinning making a stiffer fabric and leave more = ends sticking out to scratch than the long fine fibers of the final = hackling- which can be spun with a lighter twist and still have them = "hang" together. Because there is not much left after the final hackle = some will not use as fine a brush to leave more fiber from the original = source. MJ Doug and Marna Jean Davis Shooting Star Enterprises Living History & Custom Historical Clothing http://www.shootingstarhistory.com/home.html oakley@access-one.com Alternate email- oakley@shootingstarhistory.com Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com - Victorian and Old West Era=20 Online Classes in History and Period Sewing ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2330C.075C2A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Maybe this short bit will help you = with why=20 some linen is more scratchy than others.
 
First off- linen is a bast fiber- = that means=20 it comes from the stem of the plant- the best flax is pulled up by the = roots in=20 the flowering stage, and allowed to dry- most flax is now raised to = produce=20 linseed oil so the fiber is not as much bred for as it used to be- so = modern=20 variations may be a bit less desirable.
 
The flax is first laid out in = bundles to dry=20 thoroughly and when this is accomplished it is put in a still source of = water=20 (like a pool or trough) and allowed to "rett" or rot for a few days- = this helps=20 break down the outer stem fiber.  It is taken out after a suitable = period=20 and allowed to dry again. The linen is then scrutched- or broken, by = beating it=20 or breaking the stem down in a special device. It is then ready to = hackle- the=20 first hackle looks like big iron nails driven into a board and the flax = is=20 brought down upon it and pulled through these "nail bristles" to = break up=20 the fibers and take off the outer "shell" of the stem. The coarse fiber = from=20 this is called tow- and may have outer bits of  stem in it. The = fiber from=20 the flax is then hackled through repeatedly finer "hackles" the finest = being=20 similar to a fine steel wire brush- what is left by the finest brush is = your=20 finest  and longest fibers. As the flax progresses through each = brush or=20 hackle some is left behind in the brush and that is your coarser shorter = fiber.=20 It will have to be twisted tighter in spinning making a stiffer fabric = and leave=20 more ends sticking out to scratch than the long fine fibers of the final = hackling- which can be spun with a lighter twist and still have them = "hang"=20 together. Because there is not much left after the final hackle some = will not=20 use as fine a brush to leave more fiber from the original = source.
MJ
 
Doug and Marna Jean = Davis
Shooting Star=20 Enterprises
Living History & Custom Historical Clothing
http://www.shooting= starhistory.com/home.html
 oakley@access-one.com
Altern= ate=20 email-
oakley@shootingstarhistory= .com
 
Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com=20 -
 Victorian and Old West Era
Online Classes in History and = Period=20 Sewing
------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2330C.075C2A60-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 13:55:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24891 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OHW0E29360; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:32:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHVpF20698; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:31:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6OH5tF05511 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Wed Jul 24 12:05:41 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:05:42 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6OH5tF05511 Subject: [h-cost] Linen and Bloomers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:05:36 -0500 Status: RO Count me in as another linen fan! I've found a variety of linen over the last year, some scratchy, some not. I have some of the yarn dye linen from Frabrics-store.com and it is probably the stiffest/scratchiest, but I'm not planning on using it for undergarments. I've washed at several times and it's still stiff so I may try a fabric softener next. I think I'm learning what linen is worth paying the price for :). I'm also another bloomers fan and couldn't survive the midwest heat and humidity without them. I even wear them w/ pantyhose, much more comfortable. Originally I used cotton sheeting but recently switched to a cotton/linen blend and noticed a big improvement. 100% linen is next! Catherine (PS; try Desinex instead of Lotrimin for chafing :) ) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 14:00:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24923 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:00:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OHkEE00922; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:46:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHk5F28922; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host11.avidhosting.com (host11.avidhosting.com [209.239.33.204]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHXeF21668 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:33:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marnadav (slip105.access-one.com [198.247.160.105]) by host11.avidhosting.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g6OHXcs02849 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:33:38 -0400 Message-ID: <003d01c23338$4e2f40e0$69a0f7c6@marnadav> From: "Marna Jean" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01C2330E.6421F160" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Subject: [h-cost] muslin Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Marna Jean" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:34:02 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C2330E.6421F160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to the Dictionary of Needlework 1882- Muslin- A thin and more or less transparent cotton textile of Eastern = Origin... ... There are many varieties of muslin, such a A dressed and stiffened = variety called Swiss mull, Cambric muslin- an imitation of linen... = Nainsook, Leno(soft, fine and gauze-like) >From Textiles in America: 1833- English made muslin is made in 3 distinct kinds hard(stiffened or = dressed) soft(undressed and an imitation of India muslin) and lawn book = (stiffer and less clear than the hard book muslin) Muslin could be had in stripes, colors and prints- sooo... basically its a plain weave cotton and the "use" of the term = changes throughout the Victorian era. Usually it has fairly fine threads = and a plain weave- the rest? well- it depends on "what type" of muslin = it is - In 1833 there were 25 varieties listed in one book... MJ Doug and Marna Jean Davis Shooting Star Enterprises Living History & Custom Historical Clothing http://www.shootingstarhistory.com/home.html oakley@access-one.com Alternate email- oakley@shootingstarhistory.com Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com - Victorian and Old West Era=20 Online Classes in History and Period Sewing ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C2330E.6421F160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
According to the Dictionary of = Needlework=20 1882-
Muslin- A thin and more or less = transparent=20 cotton textile of Eastern Origin...
... There are many varieties of = muslin, such a=20 A dressed and stiffened variety called Swiss mull, Cambric muslin- an = imitation=20 of linen... Nainsook, Leno(soft, fine and gauze-like)
From Textiles in = America:
1833- English made muslin is made in = 3=20 distinct kinds hard(stiffened or dressed) soft(undressed and an = imitation of=20 India muslin) and lawn book (stiffer and less clear than the hard book=20 muslin)
Muslin could be had in stripes, = colors and=20 prints-
 
sooo... basically its a plain weave = cotton and=20 the "use" of the term changes throughout the Victorian era. Usually it = has=20 fairly fine threads and a plain weave- the rest? well- it depends on = "what type"=20 of muslin it is - In 1833 there were 25 varieties listed in one=20 book...
MJ
 
Doug and Marna Jean = Davis
Shooting Star=20 Enterprises
Living History & Custom Historical Clothing
http://www.shooting= starhistory.com/home.html
 oakley@access-one.com
Altern= ate=20 email-
oakley@shootingstarhistory= .com
 
Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com=20 -
 Victorian and Old West Era
Online Classes in History and = Period=20 Sewing
------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C2330E.6421F160-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 14:16:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24964 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:16:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OI2SE02570; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OI2EF08339; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHZZF22740 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:35:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6OHanm88424 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:36:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207241736.g6OHanm88424@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen and Bloomers In-Reply-To: "from Catherine Kinsey at Jul 24, 2002 12:05:36 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO so which linens would folks recommend for undergarments that can be purchased online? > Count me in as another linen fan! I've found a variety of linen over the last year, some scratchy, some not. I have some of the yarn dye linen from Frabrics-store.com and it is probably the stiffest/scratchiest, but I'm not planning on using it for undergarments. I've washed at several times and it's still stiff so I may try a fabric softener next. I think I'm learning what linen is worth paying the price for :). > > I'm also another bloomers fan and couldn't survive the midwest heat and humidity without them. I even wear them w/ pantyhose, much more comfortable. Originally I used cotton sheeting but recently switched to a cotton/linen blend and noticed a big improvement. 100% linen is next! > > Catherine > (PS; try Desinex instead of Lotrimin for chafing :) ) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 14:32:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25014 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:32:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OIJME04071; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:19:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OIJLF17850; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:19:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OHtVF04511 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip192.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.192]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6OHtRo24452 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:55:27 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen and bloomers (WAS: Re: faking historical fabrics) Message-ID: <3D3E89E0.6082.9727411@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:05:04 -0700 Status: RO > The absolute *best* linen I ever got my hands on was by a total freak > of nature. It was a going out of business sale for House of Fabrics > (which, I belive, was bought up by JoAnn's) about 10 years ago In some areas JoAnn's bought them directly. However, those were only the ones recently who had survived being bought out by Fabricland 10 years ago. (Who then was bought out by JoAnn's.) (House of Fabrics was the one I couldn't remember last week when we were discussing the loss of fabric stores.) > I'm just guessing, but I don't think it's the sizing so much as the > actual fiber that's beind used. I know *nothing* about producing > linen, but it seems to me that in comparison between the really fine > lovely stuff and the more recent linen purchases I've made, the > quality of the fiber is different. Maybe the manufacturers are using > a lesser quality plant? Cheaper processing of the plant? My guess would be a change in processing or going after second quality fibre. You can still get the good stuff (even at JoAnn's). However, sizing would wash out after the first or second time. > I do know that, yes, after a zillion washings the coarser linen > becomes less coarse, but it sort of begins to pill at a certain point, If it is pilling, then chances are you have a blend, not 100%. It is usually the cotton, poly, rayon or whatever that makes it pill. Linen will generally just get very, very thin before it wears through, rather than pilling or getting rips (like cotton and others do.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 14:48:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25150 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:48:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OIZ7E05448; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OIZ3F26362; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g6OINlI20342 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:23:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Message-ID: <20020724122346.J21523@net.indra.com> References: <3D3EBA2A.D21D0235@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D3EBA2A.D21D0235@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:23:46 -0600 Status: RO On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 08:31:06AM -0600, Sue Clemenger wrote: > http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/135.jpg I'm not sure why, but it strikes me that this looks like a depiction of something theatrical - all of the figures are men, but one is wearing a wig and playing a woman. The jester-like mask at the top is probably another clue towards this, as is the note that musicians and dancers are shown in other pages. But then again, *shrug*. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 15:21:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25381 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:21:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OJ6xE08612; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OJ6uF14872; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:06:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10302.mail.yahoo.com (web10302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6OIqdF06863 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:52:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020724185238.31120.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.140.112.34] by web10302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:52:38 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207241641.g6OGf8F20139@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1117934387-1027536758=:30832" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dorset buttons? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:52:38 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1117934387-1027536758=:30832 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I have recently discovered with the help of really fine portraits what kind of >buttons were used on c 1700 gentlemen's shirts when they did use buttons >instead of the two-buttonholes-with-ribbon method. They were these thread-woven >'Dorset buttons' where one uses a ring and then weaves the white thread in and >out and so on, to create the button. >Does anyone know if it is possible to buy those buttons (I remember they used >to be on my grandmother's bed linens as well) already made? I have a >description on how to make them but I really don't have time to do hat, I >rather buy those. Has anyone heard of a source for them? > > >Nicole Dear Nicole, How many do you need? I make Dorset thread buttons for my own costumes, and will make them to order for other people(price depends on the size of the button). I can do them in linen, silk or cotton. (Yet another thing my Nana taught me!) Debbie. PS Will you be at Kirby Hall? --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1117934387-1027536758=:30832 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 
>I have recently discovered with the help of really fine portraits what kind of
>buttons were used on c 1700 gentlemen's shirts when they did use buttons
>instead of the two-buttonholes-with-ribbon method. They were these thread-woven
>'Dorset buttons' where one uses a ring and then weaves the white thread in and
>out and so on, to create the button.
>Does anyone know if it is possible to buy those buttons (I remember they used
>to be on my grandmother's bed linens as well) already made? I have a
>description on how to make them but I really don't have time to do hat, I
>rather buy those. Has anyone heard of a source for them?
>
>
>Nicole

Dear Nicole,

How many do you need? 

I make Dorset thread buttons for my own costumes, and will make them to order for other people(price depends on the size of the button).  I can do them in linen, silk or cotton.  (Yet another thing my Nana taught me!)

Debbie.

PS Will you be at Kirby Hall?


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1117934387-1027536758=:30832-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 15:21:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25385 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:21:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OJ7UE08682; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OJ74F14999; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OIfOF00187 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.83]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZR00MS1NWZSL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:41:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? In-reply-to: <20020724104044.87963.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020724112311.00c54bb0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:26:50 -0700 Status: RO >Does anyone know if it is possible to buy those buttons (I remember they used >to be on my grandmother's bed linens as well) already made? I have a >description on how to make them but I really don't have time to do hat, I >rather buy those. Has anyone heard of a source for them? Not since the 'Teens or maybe 'Twenties, when they were available thru some mail-order catalogs. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 15:42:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25754 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:42:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OIp6E07110; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:51:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OIowF05828; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:50:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OId9F28785 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:39:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk (0x3ef32fa8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.168]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B9C5EF688 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:39:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3D3EF3C2.D294EDDB@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? References: <20020724104044.87963.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> <3D3EBFC1.1FB534DE@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:36:50 +0200 Status: RO Dear Sue. I baught some buttons from Najecki Reproduktions in USA. They used to have this website: http://members.aol.com/Najecki/repro.html But it is not there any more. They also had some very fine buckles for Stock Kravats, i baught one also. Perhaps you could try to search for them. Perhaps they mooved webspace to somewhere else. Bjarne Sue Clemenger wrote: > I sure haven't heard of a source for them, although I've got articles on > how to do them....they don't look too difficult, although I certainly > understand the time issue! > --Sue, in already-hot Montana (in the 90s again today....yech!) > > N Kipar wrote: > > > > I have recently discovered with the help of really fine portraits what kind of > > buttons were used on c 1700 gentlemen's shirts when they did use buttons > > instead of the two-buttonholes-with-ribbon method. They were these thread-woven > > 'Dorset buttons' where one uses a ring and then weaves the white thread in and > > out and so on, to create the button. > > Does anyone know if it is possible to buy those buttons (I remember they used > > to be on my grandmother's bed linens as well) already made? I have a > > description on how to make them but I really don't have time to do hat, I > > rather buy those. Has anyone heard of a source for them? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 15:59:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25857 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:59:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OJg4E12758; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OJg3F05263; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OJP0F25430 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17XRko-000ERD-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:24:59 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen and bloomers (WAS: Re: faking historical fabrics) References: <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <26984C31C16@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <4.3.1.2.20020723233109.00c9e7a0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020723233109.00c9e7a0@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:22:10 +0100 Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote > >>I have ten yards of very lightweight linen that is _horribly_ >>scratchy. It was bought off a Jo-Ann's sale table for something like >>$2.99 a yard, so I'm actually not terribly surprised that I'm having >>problems with it (you get what you pay for). > >OTOH, I got some linen yardage out of a free box in Berkeley, and it >never was scratchy, even before I washed it. And I doubt that it had >been previously washed. > >>As for underpants or bloomers, my Renaissance guild admits cheerfully >>that they're not Elizabethan, > >People keep saying that. They do so too exist in period, mostly from >Italian and French influence. Mary, Queen of Scots wore them, probably >because of her Italian mother-in-law when she was married to the >Dauphin of France and living in France. We always knew she was a shameless foreign tart! Jean > They weren't universally worn, especially by the lower classes. > >Davenport has photos of a matching set of sixteenth century Sicilian >underwear, including two shirts, a pair of footless stockings, and two >pairs of drawers (p.633, ills. 1689-1693). In the caption for these >pieces (on p.634), she says "Undererawers, like most refinements of >dress, originated in Italy. Moryson mentions "silke or linnen breeches >under their gownes" as being characteristic of Italian townswomen's >dress. He says that they are not worn at all in Germany; they were >obviously none too common in his native England at the end XVIc." >Apparently this eyewitness disagrees with 21st century 'common knowledge'. > >>We, of course, look down from our infinitely superior position >firmly in cheek> and point out loftily that _everyone_ knows that the >>thing to make out of green and purple dragon fabric, passionate red >>with black lace hearts, or pink fabric with hairbrushes printed on it >>is one's CORSET. _That_ hardly ever gets seen by accident! :))) > >I made a corset lined in pink cotton child-nightgown flannel on which >are printed little corsets. I found a remnant just big enough to do >this. > > >Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 16:02:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25875 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:02:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OJgSE12799; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:42:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OJgMF05418; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.85]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OJREF26709 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-relay01.mac.com (smtp-relay01-en1 [10.13.10.224]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g6OJRE2F005460 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay01.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g6OJR9Wf012148 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GZRQ1800.U9R for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:27:08 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 From: Agnes G To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003d01c23338$4e2f40e0$69a0f7c6@marnadav> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] dorset button source Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:27:41 -0700 Status: RO http://www.najecki.com/repro/reproindex.html this online site lists Dorset button reproductions - I have never used them, just found them on the web. Good Luck! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 16:24:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25982 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:24:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OKB4E15557; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OKB3F15118; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f67.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OJv3F13209 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:56:58 -0700 Received: from 204.22.6.152 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:56:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [204.22.6.152] From: "RobinandKelly Dorman" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2002 19:56:58.0498 (UTC) FILETIME=[44D29E20:01C2334C] Subject: [h-cost] Dorset Buttons Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:56:58 -0400 Status: RO www.woodedhamlet.com has dorsets (and lots of other goodies also) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 17:00:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26156 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:00:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OKkXE19006; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OKkFF07565; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6OKKlF23193 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:20:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15371 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2002 20:20:46 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2002 20:20:46 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-102-99.sonic.net [209.148.102.99] (may be forged)) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g6OJjPa17987 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:45:25 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D3F04F1.3E4747C1@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? References: <4.3.1.2.20020724112311.00c54bb0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:50:09 -0700 Status: RO The vintage ones show up on ebay occasionally. Fran Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >Does anyone know if it is possible to buy those buttons (I remember they used > >to be on my grandmother's bed linens as well) already made? I have a > >description on how to make them but I really don't have time to do hat, I > >rather buy those. Has anyone heard of a source for them? > > Not since the 'Teens or maybe 'Twenties, when they were available thru some > mail-order catalogs. --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 17:56:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26363 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:56:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6OLfZE24421; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:42:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OLfLF09267; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx05.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6OJGpF20794 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 29632529 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:16:50 -0400 Message-ID: <008801c23346$8b379c40$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: <200207241736.g6OHanm88424@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen and Bloomers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:15:58 -0500 Status: RO > so which linens would folks recommend for undergarments that can be purchased > online? > I bought white 100% linen from fabric.com (aka Phoenix Textiles) and it is lovely - nice and soft. I made a shirt for my husband with it and hope to be able to buy more soon for more shirts for him and me. I also bought a linen/cotton blend from them that worked wonderfully - I have lined a doublet, venetians and most of a kirtle/petticoat bodies with it (however I need a little bit more to finish the skirt). Again, nice and soft and washes well. My $0.02. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 19:29:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26645 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:29:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ONG4E03353; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ONG1F01469; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ONEnF00876 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:14:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OkligMlDINHKlkcUBeK3hW8="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G8H5F45L; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:14:28 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Cley@juno.com Message-ID: <20020724.161358.-217645.8.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: [h-cost] Squashed hedgehog Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:11:27 +0000 Status: RO Oh Drek!!! >:( I accidentally deleted the phone number for Hedgehog Handiworks, as well as their website and catalog cost information. Could someone please re-post this? Thanks! Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 20:10:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26789 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:10:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ONuwE06321; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ONuuF18047; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:56:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ONruF16833 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.ea.2b176f38 (3699) for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:53:40 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Squashed hedgehog To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:53:40 EDT Status: RO Whoops!!:) No problem to repeat!! Hedgehog Handworks---proprieters Joady and Jerry Gorelick--888-670-6040;fax 310-216-2872--also I found their online address:) http://www.hedgehoghandworks.com Happy metal thread hunting:) Cheers and Best--- Albra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 22:13:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27190 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:13:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P203E13002; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P201F26743; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout5-int.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P1vOF26055 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:57:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-65.59.80.172.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [65.59.80.172]) by pimout5-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6P1vM258128 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:57:22 -0400 Message-ID: <020f01c2337e$d6f56ee0$ac503b41@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <001601c230d2$1476f180$6501a8c0@Home> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Great place to shop for fabric in MA:Was: You live in Boston? (WAS:Re: shop and home economics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:02:29 -0400 Status: RO Ummm, from what I remember, it wouldn't have been hard to make it more organized, but you're right- it was a great place to go. My mom took me there once in a while when we were havin ladies' day out going from fabric outlet to fabric outlet. (unfortunately, most of them have gone under since then, accordin to my mom.);-p Moira > At 9:17 AM -0700 7/21/02, Saragrace knauf wrote: > There is a fabulous place in Springfield MA, called Osgood's. When I > used to work at UMass in the costume shop (another lifetime ago), we > used to shop there. But it was there a few years ago when I was > visiting too-much more organized than I remembered it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 22:36:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27330 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:36:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P2O1E14323; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P2O0F04589; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P2MLF04017 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvEWL9535CfW7syWETE+RNs="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G8JF5K44; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:20:58 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Squashed hedgehog Message-ID: <20020724.191805.-217645.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:01:00 +0000 Status: RO Thanks much!!!! 8) Arlys On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:53:40 EDT AlbraKat@aol.com writes: > Whoops!!:) No problem to repeat!! > Hedgehog Handworks---proprieters Joady and Jerry > Gorelick--888-670-6040;fax > 310-216-2872--also I found their online address:) > http://www.hedgehoghandworks.com > Happy metal thread hunting:) > Cheers and Best--- > Albra > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! 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For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 22:51:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27650 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:51:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P2d2E15253; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P2d1F09340; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P2a4F08406 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:36:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020725023558.IEDA1451.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:35:58 +0000 Message-ID: <006101c23384$01ebde90$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Centraal Museum (WAS: fabric source - a comment and a question) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:35:57 -0700 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martha Kelly" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fabric source - a comment and a question > The question: those are wonderful images from the Centraal. How did you > find them? I'm having trouble getting into their system. To get into the Centraal Museum's image database (which, FYI, is only in Dutch) start at: http://www.centraalmuseum.nl/eng_/eng_data/index_choice.html (which is the "Collections" link from the English home page) - click on "Collection Database" - click on "Mode en Kostuums" - if you know any Dutch, you can search from this page, OR to just page through all of their images (worth it!) just click on the very far right orange arrow (to the right of the search boxes) - you'll see image links in sets of 5. to page forward, click on "Volgende 5" - notice that a lot of the images have "Kleur" links at the bottom -- click on that for a larger, color image Happy drooling! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 24 23:42:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27878 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:42:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P3U8E17772; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P3U2F25556; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P3TMF25368 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:29:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6P3SSNV020209 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:28:36 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-reply-to: <20020724122346.J21523@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:37:46 -0700 Status: RO Got it! While I was in Germany in May I picked up a German edition of the Manesse. Lovely pictures, who needs to read German! The Picture is of Sampson before he met up with Delilah! The other three guys are Knights. I'm going to send the whole page of text to my friend Master Klement St. Christophe to see if he can give me a better idea of what the whole thing is about. The gold necklines are yokes. That is, they are part of the outfit, not jewelry. There are a couple of examples in the treasury in Frankfurt am Main if I remember correctly. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Lear Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:24 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 08:31:06AM -0600, Sue Clemenger wrote: > http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/135.jpg I'm not sure why, but it strikes me that this looks like a depiction of something theatrical - all of the figures are men, but one is wearing a wig and playing a woman. The jester-like mask at the top is probably another clue towards this, as is the note that musicians and dancers are shown in other pages. But then again, *shrug*. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 00:02:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27945 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:02:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P3o1E18766; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P3o0F01240; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P3njF01159 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:49:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6P3mfNZ028105 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:48:54 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-reply-to: <20020724122346.J21523@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:58:03 -0700 Status: RO The "mask" at the top is not a mask. It is a German heraldic helmet and the two things springing out of it are the torse and mantling. The blue bits on the shield and the torse are actually supposed to be silver, but the compound they used to paint them has oxidized. They are supposed to be stylized lilies atop two red mountains. The thing that "Sampson", the guy in yellow is holding is some type of musical instrument. The holes show up a bit better in my book than they do on-line. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Lear Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:24 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 08:31:06AM -0600, Sue Clemenger wrote: > http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/135.jpg I'm not sure why, but it strikes me that this looks like a depiction of something theatrical - all of the figures are men, but one is wearing a wig and playing a woman. The jester-like mask at the top is probably another clue towards this, as is the note that musicians and dancers are shown in other pages. But then again, *shrug*. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 00:07:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27969 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:07:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P3sWE18983; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:54:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P3sWF02563; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P3qtF02029 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6P3ptNV029483 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:52:09 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-reply-to: <3D3EBC1A.EF85D11A@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:01:14 -0700 Status: RO Lots of buttons depicted in German Statuary of this time period. Also check out the Macejiwski (?) Bible (alt title: Old Testament Miniatures). It was done a bit earlier, but shows many of the same clothing styles. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:39 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? Hi, everybody. I'm looking at this one image from the Manesse Codex, and durned if it doesn't look like the lower part of his sleeves and the front seam from his collarbone to his neck are buttoned....Whaddya think? (this is the gentleman on the left in the red outfit, bottom half of the page) http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/133.jpg Virtually all of the other tunic-garments (as opposed to surcoats and mantles) that I saw in the Codex had tight lower sleeves, but this is the only garment I remember seeing that also looked like it had a collar, if not a proto-collar of some sort. It's also the only one I say which seemed to be depicting buttons..... Somehow, I'd pictured button usage as being later that this, but I very well may be wrong.....I'm wondering if the fact that this seems to be the only garment with depicted buttons (I looked at most, but not all, of the 130+ images, so there may be another one in there) indicates that buttons were a rarity? perhaps a further development of the tight-sleeve style? or was the artist simply not depicting the buttons on the other sleeves? --Sue, full of early-morning musings, and not nearly enough caffeine.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 00:39:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28063 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:39:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P4R1E20676; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P4R0F12426; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P4OJF11738 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.104.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.104] helo=[63.53.187.34]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17XaAj-0007dx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:24:17 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D3EBFC1.1FB534DE@in-tch.com> References: <20020724104044.87963.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> <3D3EBFC1.1FB534DE@in-tch.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:45:31 -0700 Status: RO At 8:54 AM -0600 7/24/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >I sure haven't heard of a source for them, although I've got articles on >how to do them....they don't look too difficult, although I certainly >understand the time issue! >--Sue, in already-hot Montana (in the 90s again today....yech!) I've seen them for sale at Lacis, but I don't know whether they are still being made or whether these were from an old and limited stock. As I recall, they were not too bad pricewise (don't have a dollar amount, sorry). I've taught a few people how to make them and they're pretty easy -- they take me about 20 minutes each, though if I do several in a row the later ones get done a bit faster. Usually the hard part is finding the rings. I generally use plastic ones because they are seamless and light colored; I know people who use wire rings, but seamless ones are hard to find (and the thread always gets caught in the seam if there is one). Unfortunately our guild's costume director won't let us put them on our smocks/shirts because we are dressing more or less in the 1570s and they didn't come into common fashion in England until about 1610. (I HATE having to tie my shirt cuffs. They ALWAYS come undone, and you have to keep tucking the ends back in all day or they get into your soup and things. I visited Plimoth Plantation a couple of years ago and took the opportunity to ask some of the ladies there what they did to keep their "points" tied. They smiled and said, oh, we just count on having to re-tie them several times a day! Argh!) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 01:05:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28145 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:05:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P4r2E21672; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P4r1F18913; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P4pLF18518 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m194.in-tch.com [216.166.191.194]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6P4bP917472 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:37:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3F8523.94947910@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:57:07 -0600 Status: RO Are they metal to which the fabric is sewn some how? or fabric? --Sue, almost too tired and hot and sticky (11 p.m., and it's still 80 degrees outside, and that's cooler than my house!) Wanda Pease wrote: > > The gold necklines are yokes. That is, they are part of the outfit, not > jewelry. There are a couple of examples in the treasury in Frankfurt am > Main if I remember correctly. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 01:26:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28190 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:26:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P5E2E22642; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5E1F24578; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5AbF23588 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:10:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6P59eNV031206 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:09:46 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-reply-to: <3D3F8523.94947910@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:18:56 -0700 Status: RO The gold yoked costumes I saw in the Treasury of the Dom in Frankfurt (or maybe it was Mainz) were of cloth of gold. A fabric not stiff metal. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:57 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Are they metal to which the fabric is sewn some how? or fabric? --Sue, almost too tired and hot and sticky (11 p.m., and it's still 80 degrees outside, and that's cooler than my house!) Wanda Pease wrote: > > The gold necklines are yokes. That is, they are part of the outfit, not > jewelry. There are a couple of examples in the treasury in Frankfurt am > Main if I remember correctly. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 01:32:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28210 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:32:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P5JgE22915; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5JfF26131; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5G4F25109 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m194.in-tch.com [216.166.191.194]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6P528925153 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:02:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3F8AEE.632B8AE7@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 14th century French lady References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:21:50 -0600 Status: RO Heck, if I won the lottery, something like that would be perfect for me, although my French and Latin are more than a little rusty. I love puzzles and research and....oooh.....(swooning.....;-) I'd do it just for the pleasure of the knowledge .....*sigh* --Sue, who could do research for the rest of her life..... Robin Netherton wrote: > > > > One more activity to add to my "when I win the lottery" list! > > Are there actual plans to translate/publish, do you know? > > I seriously doubt it, unless someone with the right background and nothing > else to do decided to make it a personal project. Those three books are > hardly the most important mansucripts (from a non-costumer's perspective) > in the English national collections. I frankly wouldn't be surprised if it > turned out that the only people to touch the books in the last 200 years > were myself and the researcher who showed them to me. I looked at Edward > II's book just long enough to realize, "This is someone's life's work here > ... but not mine." > > But I was sorely tempted. (I have the paleography background already, and > the Middle English, though I'd need refreshers in both the French and > Latin, and some additional research into abbreviations used in clerk hand > of the mid-1400s, and a better grounding in economics, currency values, > etc. Say, about two or three years full-time prep before I started work on > the manuscripts proper. And each is an oversize book about two inches > thick. But can you imagine how much data is in there?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 01:33:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28215 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:33:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P5K7E22959; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5K6F26282; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5JlF26168 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m194.in-tch.com [216.166.191.194]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6P55p926289 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3F8BCE.82449C90@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen and Bloomers References: <200207241736.g6OHanm88424@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:25:34 -0600 Status: RO The 3.5 oz. handkerchief linen I ordered from Fabricsstore.com is very nice and soft (especially after preshrinkage), although a tidge heavier than I'd like for lighter-weight shifts...would be great, though, for unders, or sturdier shifts and shirts. --Sue Heather Meadows wrote: > > so which linens would folks recommend for undergarments that can be purchased > online? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 01:38:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28226 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:38:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P5PDE23116; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5PCF27473; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5K3F26248 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17523 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:45:06 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:45:06 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Wanda Pease wrote: > The gold yoked costumes I saw in the Treasury of the Dom in Frankfurt > (or maybe it was Mainz) were of cloth of gold. A fabric not stiff > metal. I've often wondered just how those bands functioned in these garments -- they're all over the Codex but I haven't seen them elsewhere. This is the first I've heard that there are extant garments, presumably c. 1300? that show them! Or is it only the bands that survived? Or could these have been (I hope not) a reproduction? I hope Heather is reading this -- Heather, do you have these on your list? If they were cloth of gold, does that mean they were cut in curved shapes, like any other garment piece? I had been thinking they might have been tablet-woven bands, as that technique was known to use gold, but the pronounced curves of these pieces in the images made tablet-weaving seem unlikely. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 01:49:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28242 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:49:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P5b1E23607; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5b0F00457; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5Z0F29828 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m194.in-tch.com [216.166.191.194]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6P5L4929952 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D3F8F5E.7CCAC205@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:40:46 -0600 Status: RO Oh, okay....that half-way makes sense. They sure looked like yokes of fabric, but you said the _Treasury_..... Hmmm....I wonder how I'd fake/duplicate it, since I don't exactly have access to cloth of gold..... --Sue Wanda Pease wrote: > > The gold yoked costumes I saw in the Treasury of the Dom in Frankfurt (or > maybe it was Mainz) were of cloth of gold. A fabric not stiff metal. > > Regina Romsey > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Sue Clemenger > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:57 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? > > Are they metal to which the fabric is sewn some how? or fabric? > --Sue, almost too tired and hot and sticky (11 p.m., and it's still 80 > degrees outside, and that's cooler than my house!) > > Wanda Pease wrote: > > > > > The gold necklines are yokes. That is, they are part of the outfit, not > > jewelry. There are a couple of examples in the treasury in Frankfurt am > > Main if I remember correctly. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 01:50:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28251 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:50:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P5b8E23621; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5b6F00510; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P5Z6F29852 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:35:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17607 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:00:11 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? In-Reply-To: <3D3EBA2A.D21D0235@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:00:11 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO To the excellent responses already posted, I'll add a few tidbits: 1. There's a wonderful but rather old facsimile of the Manesse Codex in some libraries, usually in the rare book rooms, that includes every page, and also has extensive information on the contents. It's enormous, probably exact size, and I believe it is in a couple of volumes. I saw one at Northwestern University Library in Chicago. Since then, I think there has been another decent facsimile published, but I don't know if it includes everything, or if it is in English. 2. If I remember right, many of the people represented were minnesingers (musicians, sort of like troubadours, who were I think also knights). The book described their lives and exploits. This is why you see the helms and crests and heraldry (for identification of the main figures), and also why you see a lot of images of musicians and entertainers, as well as tournaments. Then again, I could be remembering completely wrong! 3. The color yellow is very rare in images of clothing of this time and may have had certain connotations. The fact that Samson, an Old Testament figure, is so prominently presented in yellow suggests to me that it might at that time have been a symbol of "otherness" -- visual code used by artists to depict foreigners, Jews, etc. Most schools of medieval art have a set of such conventions that were commonly understood by the viewers of the time, which is one reason why it's so dicey to use Biblical, historical, foreign, or other non-realistic characters as costume sources, particularly if they're wearing something unusual! Also, it was common enough in some places and times for Jews, prostitutes and other categories of "outsiders" to be required to wear some identifying element in their clothing -- certain colors, patterns, badges, hats, etc. So perhaps at this time, yellow was reserved for Jews in real life, which would make it a logical artistic choice to delineate Samson. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 02:20:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06100 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:20:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P682E24815; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P681F07908; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P65GF07245 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17731 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:30:21 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? In-Reply-To: <3D3EBC1A.EF85D11A@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:30:21 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Somehow, I'd pictured button usage as being later that this... You have to do some hunting, but it's possible to find buttons around 1300 and before, typically on collar and/or wrist. The Manesse Codex is early 14th century, so certainly not the earliest use. I'm not sure what the archaeological record says, but there might be something about dating in "Dress Accessories," which has lots of buttons. You can see another of those standing collar thingies, but without the buttons, on image 136. > I'm wondering if the fact that this seems to be the only garment with > depicted buttons (I looked at most, but not all, of the 130+ images, > so there may be another one in there) indicates that buttons were a > rarity? perhaps a further development of the tight-sleeve style? or > was the artist simply not depicting the buttons on the other sleeves? Buttons were one option, but lacing/sewing seems to have been another. At least one 13th-century written source (The Romance of the Rose) describes someone sewing up his sleeves as part of his morning routine. I presume this means tightening up the forearm area. The Codex shows a lot of those sleeves -- loose in the shoulders and upper arms (no true set-in sleeves or close fitting yet), but pulled tight on the forearms, often with some of the upper-arm fabric hanging loosely over the top of the fitted area. I've found this a very comfortable and practical cut -- the closeness in the forearm keeps your sleeves out of the way, but the looseness over the elbow allows freedom of movement. When you bend your arm, it takes up the slack. You'll see that in some of the Codex images -- drape over the elbow in some positions, and none in others. ========================================================== Robin Netherton // Editor at Large robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 03:21:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05600 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:21:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P78gE26902; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P78fF21794; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6P74BF20627 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725070411.1861.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:04:11 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:04:11 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > 2. If I remember right, many of the people represented were minnesingers > (musicians, sort of like troubadours, who were I think also knights). The > book described their lives and exploits. This is why you see the helms and > crests and heraldry (for identification of the main figures), and also why > you see a lot of images of musicians and entertainers, as well as > tournaments. Then again, I could be remembering completely wrong! Yes, you are right, and the Handschrift (Manuscript) is in Althochdeutsch, as far as I remember. (Old High german, would probably be starting to change to Middle High german by that time but I am NOT a German language historical linguist, but an English one 'by trade') It is commonly called 'Die Manessische Liederhandschrift' which means 'song-manuscript' and it is indeed all about the troubadours/Minnesaenger like Walter von der Vogelweide etc. All about courtly life, the Minne-love, etc. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 03:58:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27673 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:58:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P7k2E28012; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P7k1F29967; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6P7ifF29734 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725074441.31648.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:44:41 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:44:41 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Chris Laning wrote: > > I've seen them for sale at Lacis, but I don't know whether they are > still being made or whether these were from an old and limited stock. > As I recall, they were not too bad pricewise (don't have a dollar > amount, sorry). Thanks, but they didn't have any, I just checked. > I've taught a few people how to make them and they're pretty easy -- > they take me about 20 minutes each, though if I do several in a row > the later ones get done a bit faster. Uhm, yes, but I think I'll tak Debbie up on her offer instead. My time is SO limited, and I do need 8 hours sleep. *grins* Usually the hard part is > finding the rings. I generally use plastic ones because they are > seamless and light colored; I know people who use wire rings, but > seamless ones are hard to find (and the thread always gets caught in > the seam if there is one). Ahhhh, I think I found the solution to this, I just ordered wooden rings from sewingbuttons online, I haven't seen them yet so Debbie might say they are wrong, but they do look right, have a look: http://www.sewingbuttons.co.uk/acatalog/P06-OW5264.jpg > (I HATE having to tie my shirt cuffs. They ALWAYS come undone, and > you have to keep tucking the ends back in all day or they get into Why???? I think something must be wrong then, sorry. We tie all our shirts, kneebands on breeches, shifts, etc. except for 1700 where gentlemen started to wear shirts with buttons more often. Neither ben's nor mine have ever come undone during the day. Hmm.. what do you tie it with? I presume you have the 2 buttonhole-ribbon method (well, how else :-) Ben's is occasionally tied with black silk ribbon (in the 1660s) and with white narrow linen tape (in the 1690s). Mine are the same. I do though push a thin brass lace pin into the knot in ben's silk ribbon to secure it and help it stay in place. Not with the linen tape though. > your soup and things. I visited Plimoth Plantation a couple of years > ago and took the opportunity to ask some of the ladies there what > they did to keep their "points" tied. They smiled and said, oh, we > just count on having to re-tie them several times a day! Argh!) Strange, strange, strange! :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 04:09:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07996 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:09:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P7v1E28329; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P7v0F02339; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6P7teF02005 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725075540.13581.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:55:40 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] UK Online sewing Buttons supplier Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:55:40 +0100 (BST) Status: RO here is the best buttons place that I have ever found online (and, mind you, including shops other than the specialist button shop in York! which is not so easy to get to when working in canterbury :-) The buttons are a super quality, cheap for what they are, and the service is very nice and friendly: http://www.sewingbuttons.co.uk/ Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 04:12:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14593 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:12:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P802E28429; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P801F02942; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6P7vaF02470 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:57:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725075736.32311.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:57:36 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset Buttons To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:57:36 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- RobinandKelly Dorman wrote: > > > www.woodedhamlet.com has dorsets (and lots of other goodies also) Oh my, yes, they are exactly what I was looking for, but if debbie makes them too I can avoid ordering abroad. :-) Thanks ever so much for the link, I forgot that Wooded Hamlet might make hem. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 04:20:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28543 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:20:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P881E29155; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P880F04688; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6P855F04048 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725080505.33594.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:05:05 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] dorset button source To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:05:05 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Agnes G wrote: > > http://www.najecki.com/repro/reproindex.html > > this online site lists Dorset button reproductions - I have never used them, > just found them on the web. Thanks, but theirs looked rather crude I have to say. *S* Thanks for finding it though! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 04:29:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07300 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:29:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P8H2E29376; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P8H1F06518; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6P8EAF05882 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725081410.24269.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:14:10 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dorset buttons? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020724185238.31120.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:14:10 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Debbie Lough Hi Debbie > How many do you need? Hmm.. not many, roughly either 3 or 6, it depends on if I do double buttons holes on the cuffs and collar or not. > I make Dorset thread buttons for my own costumes, and will make them to order > for other people(price depends on the size of the button). That would be super! I need them fairly small, unfortunately the wooden ones I ordered from sewingsbuttons were the smallest and I think those were 16 mm rings. I can do them in > linen, silk or cotton. (Yet another thing my Nana taught me!) Linen please! > Debbie. > PS Will you be at Kirby Hall? Oh yes, will be, with which group will you be there? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 04:40:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07364 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:40:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P8S1E29757; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P8S0F08969; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P8RGF08807 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA25383.; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:28:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:27:14 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6P8RGF08807 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:27:07 +0100 Status: RO Nicole wrote: > We tie all our shirts, kneebands on breeches, shifts, etc. except for 1700 >where gentlemen started to wear shirts with buttons more often. Neither >ben's nor mine have ever come undone during the day. Hmm.. what do >you tie it with? I presume you have the 2 buttonhole-ribbon method (well, >how else :-) Interesting! I'd never thought of doing it that way, though it makes perfect sense that that's how they did it. Among reenactors, I've only seen tapes or cords stitched to the ends of the cuffs, or, on breeches, the legband open at the ends and ribbon threaded right through. My problem is not with cuffs coming undone, but shoe ties as the skirt hem swishes past them. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 04:52:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07450 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:52:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P8dtE00324; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P8dsF11580; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:39:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6P8ZwF10730 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:35:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725083557.91623.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:35:57 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Ribbon ties, was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:35:57 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > Interesting! I'd never thought of doing it that way, though it makes perfect > sense that that's how they did it. Yep, there's a lovely embroidered shift in the V&A now exhibited in the New British galleries which shows exactly that. Also, I have photos of the few (very few alas) surviving shirts from the period (one from the 1620s/30s, one from the mid 17th I believe and one from the effigy from the 1680s) that all do the same. Among reenactors, I've only seen tapes or > cords stitched to the ends of the cuffs, Duh? What a starnge way to do it, I never thought of that! *laughs* Well, I fear it is the same problem with re-enactors as often, they don't study the original primary and secondary sources enough! Quite a few paintings show clearly how the shirts are tied, and I even have a couple paintings/tapestries that clearly show how the breeches work. or, on breeches, the legband open at > the ends and ribbon threaded right through. Yep, guilty as charged, we did that too before I discovered 'ze truth'. Actually, Petty Chapman got me onto it regarding breeches. > My problem is not with cuffs coming undone, but shoe ties as the skirt hem > swishes past them. ahhh, well, I have an old trick, I just use double bows, knotting the loops created by the bow once more. Uhm, hope that makes sense. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 05:26:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07730 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:26:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P9E2E01224; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P9E1F28427; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P9CgF19241 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:12:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arweb01la (unverified [10.1.201.100]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:08:37 -0700 thread-index: AcIzutylR0UX50P3T/WhrKwGciRo3A== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: Dorset buttons? From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dorset buttons? Message-ID: <0d4a01c233ba$dca54ef0$64c9010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0D4B_01C23380.304676F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:08:37 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0D4B_01C23380.304676F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is happening at Kirby Hall, when is it happening, and where is it?? Freyalyn, who needs information. _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > > From: N Kipar > Sent: 7/25/2002 5:14:10 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dorset buttons? > > --- Debbie Lough > > Hi Debbie > > How many do you need? > > Hmm.. not many, roughly either 3 or 6, it depends on if I do double buttons > holes on the cuffs and collar or not. > > I make Dorset thread buttons for my own costumes, and will make them to order > for other people(price depends on the size of the button). > > That would be super! I need them fairly small, unfortunately the wooden ones I > ordered from sewingsbuttons were the smallest and I think those were 16 mm > rings. > > I can do them in > linen, silk or cotton. (Yet another thing my Nana taught me!) > > Linen please! > > Debbie. > PS Will you be at Kirby Hall? > > Oh yes, will be, with which group will you be there? > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------=_NextPart_000_0D4B_01C23380.304676F0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is happening at Kirby Hall, when is it happening, and where is it??

Freyalyn, who needs information.




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<-----Original Message----->
>
> From: N Kipar
> Sent: 7/25/2002 5:14:10 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dorset buttons?
>
> --- Debbie Lough
>
> Hi Debbie
>
> How many do you need?
>
> Hmm.. not many, roughly either 3 or 6, it depends on if I do double buttons
> holes on the cuffs and collar or not.
>
> I make Dorset thread buttons for my own costumes, and will make them to order
> for other people(price depends on the size of the button).
>
> That would be super! I need them fairly small, unfortunately the wooden ones I
> ordered from sewingsbuttons were the smallest and I think those were 16 mm
> rings.
>
> I can do them in
> linen, silk or cotton. (Yet another thing my Nana taught me!)
>
> Linen please!
>
> Debbie.
> PS Will you be at Kirby Hall?
>
> Oh yes, will be, with which group will you be there?
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
> Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
------=_NextPart_000_0D4B_01C23380.304676F0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 05:38:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07942 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:38:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P9Q1E01906; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P9Q0F21341; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6P9N7F20084 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725092307.21334.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:23:07 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Kirby Hall, was Re: [h-cost] Re: Dorset buttons? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <0d4a01c233ba$dca54ef0$64c9010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:23:07 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- freyalyn wrote: > What is happening at Kirby Hall, when is it happening, and where is it?? > > Freyalyn, who needs information. Oh dear, you haven't heard f the annual multi period event run by English heritage called 'History in ASction' now in its 7th year, and held at Kirby hall (thus everyone calls it Kirby Hall) in Northamptonshire? It's on the 10th/11th, invited groups only, no dressing up of visitors (naturally!) English Heritage members reduce entrance fee when being a visitor. Cheerio Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 05:41:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07985 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:41:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P9SqE02021; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:28:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P9SqF21984; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:28:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P9NuF20453 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:23:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKIBFQ9DS0000333@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:23:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKIBFPBKXA000I7H@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:23:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:19:48 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:18:54 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.76) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:18:51 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? In-reply-to: <200207250751.g6P7plF01275@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <299F5344A76@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:18:51 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > (I HATE having to tie my shirt cuffs. They ALWAYS come undone, and > you have to keep tucking the ends back in all day or they get into > your soup and things. I visited Plimoth Plantation a couple of > years ago and took the opportunity to ask some of the ladies there > what they did to keep their "points" tied. They smiled and said, > oh, we just count on having to re-tie them several times a day! > Argh!) -- I'm stepping into Evil-Bunny mode here to suggest that you cheat - button them so that the buttons go from the outside to the inside (so are hidden on the *inside* - like you've made that part inside out) then sew fake points on the outside that are sewn into the bow, so they can't come undone. It should look the same but not be as fiddly and not keep needing re- tying Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, King of the Far-Isles, part-time Knave, Creature of air and darkness, and Hairdresser of Death apparently!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 05:52:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08055 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:52:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P9e2E02351; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P9e0F24298; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P9dSF24182 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.83]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZS00KWPTHJI0@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:39:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: shirt tie knots (was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? In-reply-to: <20020725074441.31648.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020725021816.00c54220@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:37:14 -0700 Status: RO When you tie the knot, wrap the tie twice around when doing the bow part, and the tie stays longer (if you tie your bows by making one loop and tying the other loop around it). If you tie that kind of bow like a granny knot, it will come out real soon, so tie it like a square knot instead. Or use the knot that is used for children's shoes; tying the bow then tying the loops in a single-overhand-knot on top of it (make a square knot of this, whether you tie your bows by tying the loops together to do it or the other way). Synthetic-fibre grosgrain ribbon stays tied much longer than synthetic-fibre satin ribbon does, for any knot you use. BTW, hooks and eyes may be period for shirt closures, in some cases. There's a fuzzy picture, in Davenport, of an un-named English princess, p.433, ill. #1158, which has what look like hooks and eyes fastening the neck opening closed. There are certainly no ties or buttons, and the shirt is indeed fastened. The original is listed as being in the Metropolitan Museum in New York, in the Bache Collection. (Davenport hints that it might be a portrait of a young Mary Tudor.) Does anyone know of a clear picture of this? Or maybe one of us who lives in New York might have seen the original in the Metropolitan. > > (I HATE having to tie my shirt cuffs. They ALWAYS come undone, and > > you have to keep tucking the ends back in all day or they get into > >Why???? I think something must be wrong then, sorry. We tie all our shirts, >kneebands on breeches, shifts, etc. except for 1700 where gentlemen started to >wear shirts with buttons more often. Neither ben's nor mine have ever come >undone during the day. Hmm.. what do you tie it with? I presume you have the 2 >buttonhole-ribbon method (well, how else :-) Ben's is occasionally tied with >black silk ribbon (in the 1660s) and with white narrow linen tape (in the >1690s). Mine are the same. I do though push a thin brass lace pin into the >knot >in ben's silk ribbon to secure it and help it stay in place. Not with the >linen >tape though. > > > your soup and things. I visited Plimoth Plantation a couple of years > > ago and took the opportunity to ask some of the ladies there what > > they did to keep their "points" tied. They smiled and said, oh, we > > just count on having to re-tie them several times a day! Argh!) > >Strange, strange, strange! :-) > >Nicole > >===== >Nicole Kipar M.A. >Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs >Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: marquis@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 05:55:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08083 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:55:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6P9h3E02400; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6P9h0F24874; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10301.mail.yahoo.com (web10301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.79]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6P9euF24524 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725094056.33467.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.6.128.30] by web10301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:40:56 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207250751.g6P7plF01275@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1946745565-1027590056=:33157" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dorset buttons Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:40:56 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1946745565-1027590056=:33157 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Uhm, yes, but I think I'll tak Debbie up on her offer instead. My time is SO >limited, and I do need 8 hours sleep. *grins* >>Usually the hard part is >> finding the rings. I generally use plastic ones because they are >> seamless and light colored; I know people who use wire rings, but >> seamless ones are hard to find (and the thread always gets caught in >> the seam if there is one). >Ahhhh, I think I found the solution to this, I just ordered wooden rings from >sewingbuttons online, I haven't seen them yet so Debbie might say they are >wrong, but they do look right, have a look: >http://www.sewingbuttons.co.uk/acatalog/P06-OW5264.jpg I've checked the website, and the wooden rings look perfect for Dorset crosswheels. And by the way, I have the problem with the ties at the cuffs of my C17th shift - always coming undone (although that could be because I insist on using pink silk ribbon!). I just tie them in a double knot, and then tie the bow on top of that, so that even if the bow comes undone, my cuffs stay tied. (That said, I do have the advantage of not having to untie the cuffs to take the shift off (really small hands!)) Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1946745565-1027590056=:33157 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>Uhm, yes, but I think I'll tak Debbie up on her offer instead. My time is SO
>limited, and I do need 8 hours sleep. *grins*

>>Usually the hard part is
>> finding the rings. I generally use plastic ones because they are
>> seamless and light colored; I know people who use wire rings, but
>> seamless ones are hard to find (and the thread always gets caught in
>> the seam if there is one).

>Ahhhh, I think I found the solution to this, I just ordered wooden rings from
>sewingbuttons online, I haven't seen them yet so Debbie might say they are
>wrong, but they do look right, have a look:

>http://www.sewingbuttons.co.uk/acatalog/P06-OW5264.jpg

I've checked the website, and the wooden rings look perfect for Dorset crosswheels.

And by the way, I have the problem with the ties at the cuffs of my C17th shift - always coming undone (although that could be because I insist on using pink silk ribbon!).  I just tie them in a double knot, and then tie the bow on top of that, so that even if the bow comes undone, my cuffs stay tied.  (That said, I do have the advantage of not having to untie the cuffs to take the shift off (really small hands!))

Debbie.


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1946745565-1027590056=:33157-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 06:23:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08211 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:23:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PAB2E03166; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PAB1F01212; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PA8pF00712 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:08:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725100851.35084.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:08:51 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Ties, was and is Re: [h-cost] Re: Dorset buttons To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020725094056.33467.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:08:51 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Debbie Lough wrote: > > I've checked the website, and the wooden rings look perfect for Dorset > crosswheels. Fine, they are on its way, I ordered a couple of packs to go over the Ł5 mark so that shipping is free. :-) > And by the way, I have the problem with the ties at the cuffs of my C17th > shift - always coming undone (although that could be because I insist on > using pink silk ribbon!). I just tie them in a double knot, and then tie the > bow on top of that, so that even if the bow comes undone, my cuffs stay tied. > (That said, I do have the advantage of not having to untie the cuffs to take > the shift off (really small hands!)) Hmm.. so what I do is the knot-the-loops-from-the-bow solution. Stays on perfectly. Do a normal knot, then make the bow, then take the loops created by the bow and knot those again. As I said in the other mail a great trick is to push a lace pin into the ribbon, then the bow and back out again. Invisible, even period, and stays on well. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 06:29:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08226 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:29:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PAGlE03331; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PAGlF02359; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:16:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PACEF01478 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:12:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725101214.3852.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:12:14 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: shirt tie knots (was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020725021816.00c54220@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:12:14 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > the knot that is used for children's shoes; tying the bow then tying the > loops in a single-overhand-knot on top of it (make a square knot of this, > whether you tie your bows by tying the loops together to do it or the other > way). Oh tanks, this was exactly what I tried to explain. > Synthetic-fibre grosgrain ribbon stays tied much longer than > synthetic-fibre satin ribbon does, for any knot you use. Uhm, sorry to butt in but I'd say don't use snthetic fibre ribbon anything. Full stop. It's wrong and it's slippery. *ducks* sorry, I shall not mention it again. :-) but you are right indeed, grosgrain is a lot less slippery. Linen ribbon is fanastic for tying anything, it just stays on, can be washed and then ironed. > BTW, hooks and eyes may be period for shirt closures, in some > cases. There's a fuzzy picture, in Davenport, of an un-named English > princess, which period????? which years? Sorry, but not everyone is SCA and it would be really helpful if the period could be mentioned, thanks ever so much. *smile* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 06:58:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08335 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:58:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PAk2E04055; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PAk1F08465; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PAiqF08235 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29259 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2002 10:44:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.194.154]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 25 Jul 2002 10:44:51 -0000 Message-ID: <01bd01c233c8$217cd4a0$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <25254166C58@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:43:36 -0400 Status: RO And to think some of my students consider me unreasonable to make them make sweatshirts!!! Not to mention that I always try to schedule it so that they are done just before Christmas, or Father's Day, so they can be given away as presents. I really did hate Home Ec when I took it, so I try not to forget why I hated it and be adaptable to what would work for each students. They might not always believe it, but I try... Rowena > > Did anyone make something in home ec that they could wear? In my > > first class we made a jumper. > > When I was 13 I made an awful snot-green short sleeved shirt > (straight up and down number with the collar set into a keyhole > neck... in the most vile green polycotton) I never actually wore it, > however, as I was small and very fat and the style was terrible for > someone that shape (not to mention the colour!!) I think it was after > that experience that I put my foot down (in itself rare for me - to > actually openly disagree with a teacher. I was nearly as scared of > them as I was of the other kids!) and insisted on choosing the > patterns and fabrics myself. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 07:06:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08370 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:06:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PAs1E04311; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PAs1F10267; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PAqWF09915 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 5679 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2002 10:52:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.194.154]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 25 Jul 2002 10:52:31 -0000 Message-ID: <01e101c233c9$33a3a180$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <53.19cd2f2c.2a6e4cdd@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: window pane muslin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:51:16 -0400 Status: RO I am going to have great sheer cotton between my "bedroom" space and my "living" space in my pavilion at Pennsic. I do not want people to have a straight look in from the business pavilion, as even with the appropriate wooden bed, chests, etc, there is always something looking far too modern! When the best JoAnn's around here (the one that had a LOT of upholstery-type stuff) went out of business this spring (Because they opened an Etc.), I bought the whole roll of the 100% cotton, thin, gauzy stuff in white and green. I was thinking undercurtains, because it is so loosely woven I didn't think under anything. Now I'll have to re-look at it. Sigh - one more thing on the count-down list. And I wasted almost all of yesterday going to a job interview, when I could have been sewing! Rowena > << American shoppers looking for batiste-thin cloth should check out the > Martha > Stewart sheers at K-mart. >> > > I keep seeing great sheers in drapery dept's. At Jo Ann's there was a 100% > cotton sheer in large-ish gingham checks....woven. In beige and white, light > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 07:18:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08397 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:18:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PB61E04830; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PB61F13290; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.228]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PB4PF12936 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-168-32-190.nyc.rr.com [24.168.32.190]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g6PB6Fkl014888 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:06:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Centraal Museum (WAS: fabric source - a comment and a question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <006101c23384$01ebde90$befc8218@WERNTO> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:05:28 -0300 Status: RO Thank you, Kendra. I'm way short on Dutch. I just printed out your instructions. I guess I know what I'll be doing with my next dozen coffee breaks. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 09:56:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08892 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:56:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PDi3E11491; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PDi1F25749; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10306.mail.yahoo.com (web10306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PDgkF25343 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725134245.61949.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.120.56.45] by web10306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:42:45 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207251014.g6PAE5F01866@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-555334906-1027604565=:61573" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1106 - 12 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:42:45 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-555334906-1027604565=:61573 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Hmm.. not many, roughly either 3 or 6, it depends on if I do double buttons >holes on the cuffs and collar or not. >That would be super! I need them fairly small, unfortunately the wooden ones I >ordered from sewingsbuttons were the smallest and I think those were 16 mm >rings. >Linen please! No problem - 16mm is probably the smallest possible (even when forced to use plastic (aargh!!) curtain rings). I'm ordering some from sewingbuttons myself. The rings used in the 17th - 19th centuries were specially made. When the buttonmaking died out, so did the rings. >> PS Will you be at Kirby Hall? >Oh yes, will be, with which group will you be there? This year I'm trading, (I normally only trade at Blackbird Leys (as was), but sometimes the job has to come first!). Usually, (every year apart from the first), I'm there with Conquest (the Normans) - although I did once tag along with the Fairfax. Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-555334906-1027604565=:61573 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 
>Hmm.. not many, roughly either 3 or 6, it depends on if I do double buttons
>holes on the cuffs and collar or not.

>That would be super! I need them fairly small, unfortunately the wooden ones I
>ordered from sewingsbuttons were the smallest and I think those were 16 mm
>rings.

>Linen please!

No problem - 16mm is probably the smallest possible (even when forced to use plastic (aargh!!) curtain rings).  I'm ordering some from sewingbuttons myself.  The rings used in the 17th - 19th centuries were specially made.  When the buttonmaking died out, so did the rings.

>> PS Will you be at Kirby Hall?

>Oh yes, will be, with which group will you be there?

This year I'm trading, (I normally only trade at Blackbird Leys (as was), but sometimes the job has to come first!).  Usually, (every year apart from the first), I'm there with Conquest (the Normans) - although I did once tag along with the Fairfax. 

Debbie.


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-555334906-1027604565=:61573-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 10:00:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08908 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:00:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PDl8E11686; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:47:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PDl7F26932; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PDjbF26337 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:45:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15151.; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:46:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:44:37 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Ribbon ties, was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6PDjbF26337 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:44:31 +0100 Status: RO I wrote: >>Among reenactors, I've only seen tapes or cords stitched to the ends of >>the cuffs, to which Nicole replied: >Duh? What a starnge way to do it, I never thought of that! *laughs* >Well, I fear it is the same problem with re-enactors as often, they don't >study the original primary and secondary sources enough! Out of curiosity (and having some spare time because our library housekeeping system is down) I looked up some links from Drea's site giving instructions for Elizabethan smocks. All use drawstrings except one which says "attach ribbons or tapes for ties". Drawstrings have been discussed at length on this list, and the consensus seems to be that they were not usual before the 18th century, but they're still commonly seen in readymade reenactors' garments. I bought a linen shift this spring which has them. It's very big, so I may cut off the ends of the sleeves to make cuffs. I'm charmed by the idea of a separate ribbon threaded through buttonholes; so much more practical for washing than having dangling tapes. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 10:05:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08947 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:05:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PDr1E12099; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PDr0F29171; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PDoAF28158 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A23EA03DA; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:50:54 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dorset buttons- alternative ties.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:50:54 -0500 Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Chris Laning Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 4:46 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? At 8:54 AM -0600 7/24/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: (snippage) Unfortunately our guild's costume director won't let us put them on our smocks/shirts because we are dressing more or less in the 1570s and they didn't come into common fashion in England until about 1610. (I HATE having to tie my shirt cuffs. They ALWAYS come undone, and you have to keep tucking the ends back in all day or they get into your soup and things. I visited Plimoth Plantation a couple of years ago and took the opportunity to ask some of the ladies there what they did to keep their "points" tied. They smiled and said, oh, we just count on having to re-tie them several times a day! Argh!) -- ________ Do you just tie regular bows? try this- when you go around the loop, go around again- this gives more contact area to hold on to when you pull it tight. alternately- what we call the Baby knots- a regular bow, then do an overhand knot with the two loops, but this will likely require an assistant to either get done, or get out of... my.o2 Betsy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 10:08:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08955 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:07:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PDtDE12230; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:55:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PDtCF29978; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PDpgF28672 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Thu Jul 25 08:51:13 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:51:15 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6PDpgF28672 Subject: [h-cost] Shirt tie knots Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:51:05 -0500 Status: RO Try cotton, or linen for the ties. I experimented around with ties several years ago and found that ties braided out of cotton embroidery floss would stay tied all day. Since then I have moved to a lucet with cotton or linen cord, they work great! Thanks for reminding me about the 2-buttonholes Nicole, I'm going to have to look into that for the next shirt. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 10:49:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09113 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:49:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PEaHE15161; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PEaBF17460; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PEWPF15698 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:32:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725143225.52322.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:32:25 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Ribbon ties, was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:32:25 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > > Out of curiosity (and having some spare time because our library housekeeping > system is down) I looked up some links from Drea's site giving instructions > for Elizabethan smocks. All use drawstrings except one which says "attach > ribbons or tapes for ties". Well, I do not know that much about the 16th c. but I am vey surprised to hear this, I never thought that this would have been the case, but then, as I said, I did not research 16th c. clothing. Actually, the shift in the V&A has one linen tape stipp attached to one buttonholes, it had been knotted there to keep in place, so funny because I do exactly the same so that they don't get lost. :-) > Drawstrings have been discussed at length on this list, and the consensus > seems to be that they were not usual before the 18th century, but they're > still commonly seen in readymade reenactors' garments. Yep, and it's prett wrong, but so much easier to make. There are 'drawstrings' on some paintings of shifts of the late 17th, as early as the 1680s (one verelst painting, and no, I haven't found an earlier one) at the neck BUT they were ALL gathered onto a narrow band first and then seem to just ahve had an added drawstring to allow some adjustment. most of teh time though what appears to be adrawstring is actually just the ribbon tie hanging loose. There are some paintings of men in shirts, often artists and their self portraits, notably 3 I cabn think of, which show a coloured quite broad silk ribbon loosely floating still in one buttonhole, the shirt undone and decorateively falling over a nice male shoulder. yummy *grins* I bought a linen shift > this spring which has them. It's very big, so I may cut off the ends of the > sleeves to make cuffs. I did that to one too, which I had made (the so-called 'Italian' shift in cut my cote, which works perfecetly BTW for mid 17th c. very low necked wide cut bodices) because had to do something to the sleeves with 10 minutes to spare for an event. I later cut the piece off to make cuffs properly. the famous 'it's almost done but not quite'... I'm charmed by the idea of a separate ribbon threaded > through buttonholes; so much more practical for washing than having dangling > tapes. Don't forget, when you want to wash the ties too, to knot them into ne buttonhole.. you wouldn't believe how many washing machines feed on ties... hehehe. Also, a tip, undo the knots before the garment is dry if you use linen tape, or it's gonna be a pain! *laughs* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 11:14:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09246 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:14:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PF18E17508; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PF11F00109; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PEwCF28641 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725145811.2599.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:58:11 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020725134245.61949.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Making of Dorset buttons Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:58:11 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Debbie Lough wrote: > > > No problem - 16mm is probably the smallest possible (even when forced to use > plastic (aargh!!) curtain rings). I'm ordering some from sewingbuttons > myself. The rings used in the 17th - 19th centuries were specially made. > When the buttonmaking died out, so did the rings. Well, I hope that we have found a new source then, usually the buttons from them are very lovely. > > This year I'm trading, (I normally only trade at Blackbird Leys (as was), but Oh, with whom? I go to every Oxford (now Warwick) market. > sometimes the job has to come first!). Usually, (every year apart from the > first), I'm there with Conquest (the Normans) - although I did once tag along > with the Fairfax. Okay, just let me know where to find you nearer at the time. :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 11:20:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09273 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:20:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PF7hE18101; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PF7gF03808; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PF1bF00456 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:01:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20046.; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:02:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:00:59 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Ribbon ties, was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6PF1bF00456 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:00:42 +0100 Status: RO Nicole wrote: >Well, I do not know that much about the 16th c. but I am vey surprised to hear >this, I never thought that this would have been the case, but then, as I said, >I did not research 16th c. clothing. I didn't mean to suggest that this was correct, just that many traders/pattern makers have jumped onto the bandwagon of using drawstrings or sewn-on ties. It gives roughly the right effect so re-enactors have gone on doing it that way without question. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 11:32:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09314 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:32:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PFK2E19352; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PFK1F10584; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PFHmF09469 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:17:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6PFJ2a96108 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207251519.g6PFJ2a96108@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] vintage clothing exhibit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO there was a very lovely vintage clothing exhibit - primarly lingerie dresses -- at Costume College 2002. I got so excited by it and took so many photos that I didn't manage to get many of people! oops. I haven't really sorted through this album, so there are some near duplicates and they aren't in any sensible order but if you'd like to see the preview- "Way too many pictures of Vintage dresses and accessories" please check out: http://www.wonderland.com/~alice/galleries/costumecollege2002/ .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 11:32:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09319 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:32:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PFK9E19370; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PFK8F10660; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PFI1F09539 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725151800.68915.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:18:00 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re-enactors' myths, was Re: Ribbon ties, Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:18:00 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > > I didn't mean to suggest that this was correct, just that many > traders/pattern makers have jumped onto the bandwagon of using drawstrings or > sewn-on ties. It gives roughly the right effect so re-enactors have gone on > doing it that way without question. Oh yes, the re-enactors' myth, like the gawdawful 'Viking furry hat' which never ever existed in history like that. It is even possible to pinpoint the first occurence of the fur brimmed hat. his was in a book, a danish one, and the artist who was supposed to draw the Viking figures admitted he didn't know that much, this was back in the 70s. So they found the leather and fur bits in Haithabu and didn't know to where they belonged, so he drew up a eather cap with a small fur brim. English re-enactors saw the illustrations, didn't understand the Danish and whooops, the first furry brimmed hat was made. THEY NEVER EXISTED LIKE THAT! except for amongst re-enactors... *hysterical laughter* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 11:35:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09336 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:35:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PFMsE19684; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:22:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PFMqF12085; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PFJiF10441 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip170.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.170]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6PFJZq00460 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:19:40 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Message-ID: <3D3FB6C9.24253.E0A0FD6@localhost> Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:28:57 -0700 Status: RO > On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Wanda Pease wrote: > > > The gold yoked costumes I saw in the Treasury of the Dom in > > Frankfurt (or maybe it was Mainz) were of cloth of gold. A fabric > > not stiff metal. snip > If they were cloth of gold, does that mean they were cut in curved > shapes, like any other garment piece? I had been thinking they might > have been tablet-woven bands, as that technique was known to use gold, > but the pronounced curves of these pieces in the images made > tablet-weaving seem unlikely. > --Robin Perhaps they were plait braided? Heaven knows I've used enough gold braid and it seems to go around corners well. If it were wide enough (which plait braiding allows), it could do well for a garment yoke. It might also look more like cloth of gold depending on how it is done. Tablet weaving tends not to be quite as malleable in terms of going around things. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 13:18:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10170 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PH68E01779; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PH65F13441; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:06:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PH4jF12547 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020725170439.EUMU24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:04:39 +0000 Message-ID: <004801c233fd$5cc6f380$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Centraal Museum (WAS: fabric source - a comment and a question) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:04:39 -0700 Status: RO You're more than welcome -- and it's the pictures that are the most important thing! - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martha Kelly" To: Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:05 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Centraal Museum (WAS: fabric source - a comment and a question) > Thank you, Kendra. I'm way short on Dutch. I just printed out your > instructions. I guess I know what I'll be doing with my next dozen coffee > breaks. > > Martha > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 13:57:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10342 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PHj3E06338; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PHj1F07430; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PHgDF05818 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p228.directcon.net [209.233.107.228]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6PHfc1p027623; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:41:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020725104705.00ba9c30@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: Ribbon ties, was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:47:05 -0700 Status: RO Do the existing shirts actually have pairs of worked buttonhles? I've heard of cuffs and neckbands tied with ribbons that were taken directly through the fabric with a needle, but buttonholes seem to have escaped me. I'd love a reference to a picture! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 14:27:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10620 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:27:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PIEIE09195; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PIEHF25070; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PIArF23210 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725181053.59310.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:10:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Ribbon ties, was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020725104705.00ba9c30@pop.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:10:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Margo Anderson wrote: > Do the existing shirts actually have pairs of worked buttonhles? I've heard > of cuffs and neckbands tied with ribbons that were taken directly through > the fabric with a needle, but buttonholes seem to have escaped me. I'd > love a reference to a picture! No picture I'm afraid of the shift in the V&A, everytime I've been there the last times I didn't have a camera with me *growls* I'm getting a good digital camera for Christmas, so hopefully I won't go out of the house anymore without it! It isn't in the close-up book either. Yes they do have worked buttonholes but all the examples I have are 17th century, I don't have a clue what was done before that, I don't research before the 17th. The pictures that I have are on my PC and if I ever find time I might upload them somewhere. And there we are, time.... Oh hang on, there are several on the CGFA web site and the web gallery of art. Dutch painters, 17th century, and no, sorry, I don't have the time to go look for them and c&p the links, the first version of me looking through my pix is more realistic, if at all. :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 14:52:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10737 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:52:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PIdHE11328; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PIdGF09810; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:39:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PIaOF08183 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:36:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725183623.87125.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:36:23 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] More on ties on shirts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:36:23 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Soo.. as promised I did actually go through some of my folders and uploaded two paintings from the later period I research which show the ties and buttonholes solution. http://www.kipar.org/temp/1711_selfportrait-manyoki.jpg and http://www.kipar.org/temp/1690s_youngma_kupecky.jpg I also had a look though in my folder with the exant garemnst photos and surprise, surprise I found that at the neck, the use of ties as attached to the shirt and ribbons threaded through two buttonholes depended on the cut and use of lace. One from 1625 shoes ties attached to a falling band collar and sporting tassels. One from denmark from 1648 shows ties attached to the shirt because they are beneath the lace that adorned the neck opening and thus hidden. One from 1680 shoes ties made from lace that are incorporated in the attached lace collar design and are attached to the shirt too. All of the above have buttonholes at the cuffs though. No wonder I never used attached ties because I never made any of the styles of shirts like the above! :-) So, seems we are both right, but depending on the style. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 16:02:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11240 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:02:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PJn4E18266; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:49:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PJn2F19609; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40202.mail.yahoo.com (web40202.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.63]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PJjPF17511 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725194520.7040.qmail@web40202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.189.83.254] by web40202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:45:20 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207250751.g6P7phF01262@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] re: 15th century female dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO A few notes: Further detail about Dieric Bouts... He's refered to as the Louvain master, and the picture I referenced previously comes from his Passion Triptych which I'm presuming resides in Capilla Real, Grenada (according to the text) and the principle scene is the Descent from the Cross. The left panel, however, shows a woman in an ivory dress with red pin-on sleeves hugging the cross beneath Jesus' feet. She has a blue mantle fallen loosely around her legs/skirt-area. The picture I'm viewing is on p. 36 of the book called Rogier Van der Weyden, written by Dirk de Vos. Now that I'm more aware of Magdalene sightings, I'm guessing this lady is her. A related question occurs to me... there is a more famous van der Weyden image of the Descent from the Cross housed in the Museo del Prado, showing a woman (the Magdalen?) wearing a light, almost green-grey dress with a fringe of what appears to be blue-ish fur around the bottom (or perhaps a high-pile velvet?). She wears rich, red brocade pin-on sleeves, and her arms are bent at a dramatic angle, hands clasped, presumably in mournful prayer at the sight of Jesus's dead body. My question concerns the construction of her skirt -- there's a clear waist seam, but her skirt appears to be constructed from many, many smaller pieces. The painter took the effort to paint these tiny seams, radiating out from the waist. There even appears to be bands that are sewn around the skirt circumference-wise! I'm wondering why our detail-oriented artist would bother painting these seams -- surely, constructing a skirt this way makes zero sense -- it's intensive work, and would take intensive skill to make it drape well... The only thing I can think of is that it might symbolize poverty of some kind -- needing to work with scraps. Still, if that were so, why would she have a rich hem and rich sleeves? So, what I'm wondering is: is there any historical evidence that this picture could be depicting a known method for skirt construction? Or, is it an extremely subtle allegorical point being made? Thoughts? Tasha/Marcele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 16:06:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11254 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:06:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PJr5E18665; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PJr4F21924; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PJnKF19800 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:49:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6PJmJtE031574 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:48:33 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-reply-to: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:57:43 -0700 Status: RO The ones I have seen were in the treasuries of either Mainz, or Frankfurt am Main in Germany. (I think, I was there for many years so cathedrals and art museums tend to fuse together in my brain :-). At any rate, these looked to be gold fabric, put on exactly as you would any other fabric. Whether they were appliqued or an actual "working piece" of the finished garment I could not see since they were behind glass. The garments were definitely lined because they had that heft to them that you only get with linings. However, whether they were lined originally, or for conservation I'm not sure (certainly they are lined now for conservation purposes, but they may still have been lined when first made - sorry, headache is not making me more coherent). As I remember they were constructed much like the Tunic that is in all the costume books from the Schatzkammer in Vienna (Charlemagne?) but the bands were gold, not brocade, and they were not pearled. A place to write and ask these questions would be the German History Museum in Nuremberg (no umlauts on my keyboard). When I was there the curator was a very nice relatively young man who spoke perfect English and was delighted to show my friend around after we had made the appointment. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:45 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Wanda Pease wrote: > The gold yoked costumes I saw in the Treasury of the Dom in Frankfurt > (or maybe it was Mainz) were of cloth of gold. A fabric not stiff > metal. I've often wondered just how those bands functioned in these garments -- they're all over the Codex but I haven't seen them elsewhere. This is the first I've heard that there are extant garments, presumably c. 1300? that show them! Or is it only the bands that survived? Or could these have been (I hope not) a reproduction? I hope Heather is reading this -- Heather, do you have these on your list? If they were cloth of gold, does that mean they were cut in curved shapes, like any other garment piece? I had been thinking they might have been tablet-woven bands, as that technique was known to use gold, but the pronounced curves of these pieces in the images made tablet-weaving seem unlikely. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 16:10:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11277 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:10:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PJv4E19007; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PJv2F23972; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from johnson.mail.mindspring.net (johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.177]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PJs2F22410 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smui05.slb.mindspring.net ([199.174.114.91]) by johnson.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17XogT-0001FG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:54:01 -0400 Received: by smui05.slb.mindspring.net id PAA0000010709; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:54:00 -0400 (EDT) From: To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 64.167.230.74 Subject: [h-cost] Ribbon ties (WAS: Re: Dorset buttons?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: claning@igc.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:54:00 -0400 Status: RO On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Nicole wrote: >Why???? I think something must be wrong then, sorry. We tie all our shirts, kneebands on breeches, shifts, etc. except for 1700 where gentlemen started to wear shirts with buttons more often. Neither ben's nor mine have ever come undone during the day. Hmm.. what do you tie it with? I presume you have the 2 buttonhole-ribbon method (well, how else :-) Ben's is occasionally tied with black silk ribbon (in the 1660s) and with white narrow linen tape (in the 1690s). Mine are the same. I do though push a thin brass lace pin into the knot in ben's silk ribbon to secure it and help it >stay in place. Not with the linen tape though. A pin? That's a good idea. I've tried all kinds of double bows, surgeon's knots and so forth -- they ALL come untied at _least_ once a day, no matter how tightly you pull them. (Equally annoying, I always have to get someone else to tie them because I can't do it one-handed.) Usually I'm using polyester narrow grosgrain ribbon, because it doesn't start looking like a grubby bit of string after two or three wearings, which linen or cotton ties often do. Believe me, I've been tempted to just take a stitch or two through the bow after it's tied! Most of the shirts/smocks I've made actually have a ribbon tie _inside_ the cuff, running all the way around and sticking out about 6 inches at each end. Each end is tied in a small overhand knot to prevent raveling. The single tie prevents it pulling out of the cuff, as shorter ties sometimes do. It can't possibly get lost this way and washes beautifully. As for hooks and eyes or buttons -- well, I love our costume director dearly, but her mind is made up: the "norm" was cuffs tied with points, so that's what we wear, end of discussion. Chris Laning ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 16:46:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11506 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:46:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PKY2E22711; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PKY1F15079; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PKWgF14353 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.106] (pm4-106.eos.net [205.133.149.106]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00401 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:32:39 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200207251014.g6PAE1F01841@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: ties/closures Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:32:20 -0400 Status: RO Okay, so it's not my period, but sewing ties to the ends of cuffs doesn't sound strange to me. That's what I would do. What is the "real" way? I don't understand from the brief discussion so far. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 16:55:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11547 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:55:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PKgjE23600; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PKgiF20148; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PKd2F18148 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020725203902.13063.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:39:02 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: ties/closures To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:39:02 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > > Okay, so it's not my period, but sewing ties to the ends of cuffs doesn't > sound strange to me. That's what I would do. What is the "real" way? I don't > understand from the brief discussion so far. > > Gail Finke It appears that it depends on the period and the type of shirt though it also appears that sewing ties to the neck/collar/slit of the shirt is more common with certain styles than is the buttonhole method. I have not seen in any of my paintings nor the photos of surviving garments (which do not show the cuffs clearly usually though!) any ties sewn onto the cuffs but instead a buttonhole on each side and the ribbon slipped through each and tied. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 17:28:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11830 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:28:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PLF6E26778; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLF4F09289; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLD6F08113 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.17] (as-5-31.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.17]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6PLD5e29527 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:02:45 -0700 Status: RO At 12:45 AM -0500 7/25/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Wanda Pease wrote: > >> The gold yoked costumes I saw in the Treasury of the Dom in Frankfurt >> (or maybe it was Mainz) were of cloth of gold. A fabric not stiff >> metal. > >I've often wondered just how those bands functioned in these garments -- >they're all over the Codex but I haven't seen them elsewhere. This is the >first I've heard that there are extant garments, presumably c. 1300? that >show them! Or is it only the bands that survived? Or could these have been >(I hope not) a reproduction? > >I hope Heather is reading this -- Heather, do you have these on your list? I'm paying attention, but I'm still not clear on exactly what the item is that's being described. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 17:30:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11858 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:30:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PLHdE27023; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:17:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLHbF10788; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLD8F08132 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.17] (as-5-31.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.17]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6PLD6e29581 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D3F8F5E.7CCAC205@in-tch.com> References: <3D3F8F5E.7CCAC205@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:05:19 -0700 Status: RO At 11:40 PM -0600 7/24/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Oh, okay....that half-way makes sense. They sure looked like yokes of >fabric, but you said the _Treasury_..... >Hmmm....I wonder how I'd fake/duplicate it, since I don't exactly have >access to cloth of gold..... Cathedral "treasuries" often encompass a museum-like function, especially for items with special religious significance. If these are remnants of a religious vestment associated with a saint, the natural place for them to end up is the cathedral treasury. Is it actual cloth of gold or is it gold-thread embroidery? Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 17:30:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11862 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:30:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PLHqE27061; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLHnF10937; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:17:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLDAF08160 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.17] (as-5-31.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.17]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6PLD8e29621 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D3FB6C9.24253.E0A0FD6@localhost> References: <3D3FB6C9.24253.E0A0FD6@localhost> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:08:06 -0700 Status: RO At 8:28 AM -0700 7/25/02, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > >Tablet weaving tends not to be quite as malleable in terms of going >around things. In my files, I have at least one medieval example of a tablet-woven braid going around a curved neckline, and it's just tucked into little pleats on the inner edge on a regular basis. I've got examples of a couple of fabric-faced necklines that do the same thing. You can gloss over that sort of thing when you're painting, though. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 17:52:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11986 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:52:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PLe3E29617; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLe1F24124; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLbhF22709 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p129.directcon.net [209.233.107.129]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g4SGYrIQ025439; Tue, 28 May 2002 09:34:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020528085140.007f4da0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, H-Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: [h-cost] Costuming Maypole Dancers In-Reply-To: <20020528152618.73723.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:51:40 -0700 Status: RO My children's Waldorf school puts on an annual Renaissance Mayfaire, which, traditionally, features the 8th grade, clad all in white, doing a Maypole dance. This year we made the transition from being a school carnival to being a professional level Renaissance Faire. Not surprisingly, I'm the costume advisor. Unfortunately, our 8th graders were overextended and were unable to meet even the basic costume requirements I gave them, and our Rennaissance Maypole dancers were wearing white T-shirts, sleevless blouses, and other inapropriate clothing, inluding one girl in pants and another in a white sleevless short sheath dress. Needless to say, this was an embarrassment to me, and I won't let it happen again. I've volunteered to coordinate the design and construction of a wardrobe of Maypole dancer costumes, which can be used year after year. As it happens, we won't have an eight grade next year (five years ago that class became too small to be viable, and they were absorbed into the classes above and below them) This gives me a full two years to accomplish them. Here's what I'm thinking of doing. Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 1. Design. I'm leaning toward the standard Renn Faire peasant look, with long full sleeved smocks, flowing skirts, and laced bodices for the girls, and loose shirts, knee length breeches, and jerkins for the boys. Traditionally the dancers wear garlands, so we don't need hats. (when I use the term "traditional", I mean traditionally for the school or for Waldorf education, not historically traditional. I'm aware that most of the Maypole "traditions" are conscious re-creations dating to the late 18th century) I'd like to keep the traditional mostly white clothing, and possibly have the bodices and jerkins be assorted bright colors. Multicolored ribbons may be used as trim. 2. Sizing Fitting this age group, 12-14, can be difficult. Some of them have their full growth, and some still have children's bodies. Some are tall but undeveloped, some are small but voluptuous. It's also possible for them to completly change body types or grow several inches in, say, the month between a final fitting and a performance. Clothing that adapts to different sizes and is easily altered is a must. I'm thinking elastic waists on skirts and breeches, bodices and jerkins constructed theatrical style, with large, easily let out side and shoulder seams, and skirts and sleeves with tucks that can be let out. 3. Modesty is important in the Waldorf world. If we use the drawstring necked smock, the neck string will be sturdy cording, not elastic, and will be firmly stitched in place so that our girls can't pull them lower. Fabrics will be opaque. 4. Construction Much as I love to sew, I don't wnat to make 20 costumes all by myself. I'm thinking of offering a series of free workshops, in "Making a Shirt", "Making a Bodice", etc. Particpants would construct the garments in class, but they would remain school property. Participants would receive a copy of the pattern and class handouts for their own use. Would that work? Let me know what you think, Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 17:59:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12028 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:59:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PLkHE00428; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLkEF27568; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (marstons.services.quay.plus.net [212.159.14.223]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6PLhYF26023 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:43:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 1232 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Jul 2002 21:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO l0f3x9) (212.159.21.135) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2002 21:46:22 -0000 Message-ID: <000101c23423$6bca1260$03000004@l0f3x9> From: "Sally Ann Chandler" To: References: <20020724104044.87963.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:33:42 +0100 Status: RO I make them Nicole but they work out horribly expensive. Sally Ann medcc@medcc.free-online.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: N Kipar To: H-Costume Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:40 AM Subject: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? > I have recently discovered with the help of really fine portraits what kind of > buttons were used on c 1700 gentlemen's shirts when they did use buttons > instead of the two-buttonholes-with-ribbon method. They were these thread-woven > 'Dorset buttons' where one uses a ring and then weaves the white thread in and > out and so on, to create the button. > Does anyone know if it is possible to buy those buttons (I remember they used > to be on my grandmother's bed linens as well) already made? I have a > description on how to make them but I really don't have time to do hat, I > rather buy those. Has anyone heard of a source for them? > > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 18:05:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12079 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:05:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PLqhE01085; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLqgF01331; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLlEF28189 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:47:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WERNTO ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020725214709.OWHS26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@WERNTO> for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:47:09 +0000 Message-ID: <002601c23424$d37c2230$befc8218@WERNTO> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020528085140.007f4da0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming Maypole Dancers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:47:08 -0700 Status: RO Re: multi-sizing bodices, you might try making them with lacing at each size. That way you could let them out as necessary without giant gaps in the CF or CB. > 2. Sizing Fitting this age group, 12-14, can be difficult. Some of them > have their full growth, and some still have children's bodies. Some are > tall but undeveloped, some are small but voluptuous. It's also possible > for them to completly change body types or grow several inches in, say, the > month between a final fitting and a performance. Clothing that adapts to > different sizes and is easily altered is a must. I'm thinking elastic > waists on skirts and breeches, bodices and jerkins constructed theatrical > style, with large, easily let out side and shoulder seams, and skirts and > sleeves with tucks that can be let out. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 18:14:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12117 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:14:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PM23E02115; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PM22F06515; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PLwVF04632 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p139.directcon.net [209.233.107.139]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6PLvq1p021402; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:57:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020725150318.00b9e390@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: [h-cost] Body scanning at last! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:03:18 -0700 Status: RO Look at this! http://www.scansewsuccess.com/index.html You can now get patterns made that are drafted to custom scans of your body! They say they have 600 pattern options, but they don't say if they do standard slopers that we could use to base historical costumes on, nor do they have a contact eamil address for questions. They do give you a copy of your measurement chart from the scan. I'm going to do it just to satisfy my curiosity, if nothing else. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 18:15:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12124 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:15:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PM33E02202; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PM32F07059; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PM29F06603 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p139.directcon.net [209.233.107.139]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6PM1r1p022338; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:01:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020725150719.00b9f2d0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming Maypole Dancers In-Reply-To: <002601c23424$d37c2230$befc8218@WERNTO> References: <3.0.6.32.20020528085140.007f4da0@pop.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:07:19 -0700 Status: RO I have no idea why my computer picked this months old message to re-send. At any rate, ugly politics, personal issues, and the need to make a living have all conspired to make me say forget it to this particvular event. Thanks anyway! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 18:18:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12128 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PM66E02453; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PM64F08778; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:06:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PM34F07097 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-37ka4ho.dialup.mindspring.com ([207.69.18.56] helo=AlphaB) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17XqhK-0001hC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:03:02 -0400 From: "Ann Neff" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming Maypole Dancers Message-ID: <000001c23427$0d8bf480$381245cf@AlphaB> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020528085140.007f4da0@pop.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:03:04 -0400 Status: RO I've raised three boys in Renn Faire clothes from 9 years old to college age, and we loan out assortments of garb (including mine) to the HS theatre and our church's Boar's Head Feast, so I have some experience with adapting on that age group. You really do not need to worry much about fit if you're doing this design. The chemise/smock/shift work well with several large tucks about calf and knee level. I've also found that the tucks act to provide some body to the skirt so that it doesn't wrap around the legs so easily. Since there will be a skirt over the chemise, any re-sewing of the tucks won't have to be beautiful. You will need skirts for girls ranging from 4feet tall up to 6 feet, so perhaps 3 or 4 lengths would work. If you use elastic, with a drawstring, the skirts will fit all widths of girls. Buttons aren't flexible enough. For boys and girls: Use elastic on the wrist, and medium full sleeves will adapt to a wide range of arm length. Shorter armed children just have less full sleeves. Remember, boys now wear very loose clothing everyday. They will complain if their clothes do fit well! Loose shirts (the Cheesemaker's Smock -- forgot which pattern company) adapts well. Cut them long, and with a jerkin over, you can cover a whole lot of sudden growth. Put only a hint of waist fitting, and the jerkin will fit several body types. They won't be wearing the clothing all day to work in, so you can fudge a little for comfort and style. Ann Neff Georgia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 11:52 AM To: h-costume@indra.com; H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] Costuming Maypole Dancers Snip Here's what I'm thinking of doing. Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 1. Design. I'm leaning toward the standard Renn Faire peasant look, with long full sleeved smocks, flowing skirts, and laced bodices for the girls, and loose shirts, knee length breeches, and jerkins for the boys. Traditionally the dancers wear garlands, so we don't need hats. snip 2. Sizing Fitting this age group, 12-14, can be difficult. Some of them have their full growth, and some still have children's bodies. Some are tall but undeveloped, some are small but voluptuous. It's also possible for them to completly change body types or grow several inches in, say, the month between a final fitting and a performance. Clothing that adapts to different sizes and is easily altered is a must. I'm thinking elastic waists on skirts and breeches, bodices and jerkins constructed theatrical style, with large, easily let out side and shoulder seams, and skirts and sleeves with tucks that can be let out. 3. Modesty is important in the Waldorf world. If we use the drawstring necked smock, the neck string will be sturdy cording, not elastic, and will be firmly stitched in place so that our girls can't pull them lower. Fabrics will be opaque. 4. Construction Much as I love to sew, I don't wnat to make 20 costumes all by myself. I'm thinking of offering a series of free workshops, in "Making a Shirt", "Making a Bodice", etc. Particpants would construct the garments in class, but they would remain school property. Participants would receive a copy of the pattern and class handouts for their own use. Would that work? Let me know what you think, Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 18:51:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12251 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:51:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PMd4E05253; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PMd2F25871; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PMc5F25349 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17XrFD-0005KK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:38:03 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming Maypole Dancers X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:38:03 -0400 Status: RO > > You really do not need to worry much about fit if you're doing this > design. The chemise/smock/shift work well with several large tucks > about calf and knee level. I've also found that the tucks act to > provide some body to the skirt so that it doesn't wrap around the legs > so easily. Since there will be a skirt over the chemise, any re-sewing > of the tucks won't have to be beautiful. You will need skirts for girls > ranging from 4feet tall up to 6 feet, so perhaps 3 or 4 lengths would > work. If you use elastic, with a drawstring, the skirts will fit all > widths of girls. Buttons aren't flexible enough. Thought I'd add my $0.02 since I'm speaking from experience on being short and having been involved in various costumed pageants and whatnot over the years (both as costumer and participant). The skirt issue is actually the least problematic. I've found that you can take an "average" skirt, say 40-45" long and hike it up around your ribcage (my waist to ankle measurment is about 35") until it clears the ground and adding the bodice over it, no one knows the difference. I did this last year when I worked at a bodice booth at Northern and was required to wear the owner's skirts which were standardized to fit a woman between 5'6 and 6'0. For the bodices, I'll also refer back to this bodice seller at Northern... If anyone is familiar with Hathor's Mirror bodices by Darla Hitchcock, this is the person I'm talking about. The majority of her bodices have adjustable lacing down the front and sides (the "double lace" bodices have a stomacher front that laces down either side but not in the middle). This allows for her to sell 4 basic sizes to fit a wide array of body types (X-Small, small, medium and large. She makes XXL and XXXL bodices but by far, those 4 sizes fit pretty much everyone from people like me at 5 foot nuthin' to my friend who is a size 20 and fits into the large tripple lace easily). If you took this concept and added shoulder straps that can be laced into the front of the bodice, you've got one heck of an adjustable garment that could probably size up or down several sizes. Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 18:54:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12286 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:54:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PMg5E05468; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:42:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PMg4F27437; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PMdAF25932 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17XrGF-0006ri-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:39:07 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming Maypole Dancers X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:39:07 -0400 Status: RO Yikes! Then never mind! Sorry to hear that it didn't work out... :( Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com > I have no idea why my computer picked this months old message to re- send. > At any rate, ugly politics, personal issues, and the need to make a living > have all conspired to make me say forget it to this particvular event. > Thanks anyway! > > Margo > "One Tough Costumer" > > > See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Absence of evidence, isn't necessarily evidence of absence." -Carl Sagab _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 19:09:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12640 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:09:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PMv4E06691; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PMv2F05031; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PMsqF03980 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:54:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.169]) by mail.compassnet.com.au (8.11.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id g6PMqg030703 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:52:42 +1000 Message-ID: <10a201c2342d$d4eefd00$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20020725203902.13063.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: ties/closures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:50:30 +1000 Status: RO Very interesting! I've always done the cuffs similar to the neckline ties when I've used sewn-on ties, as that's all I can see from the pictorial evidence that we get over here. I haven't had any originals come out to Australia on tour. I have got some patterns from extant 17th century shirts, but never realised this. Looks like a change is required for Wayne's shirts, but not the kids (currently hovering around 1 shoe tie lost each time they wear them, and don't want to lose the cuff ties as well). At least it's not a structural change :-) Gee you miss a lot being across the other side of the world from the place you're reenacting. Next year for sure! Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" > It appears that it depends on the period and the type of shirt though it also > appears that sewing ties to the neck/collar/slit of the shirt is more common > with certain styles than is the buttonhole method. I have not seen in any of my > paintings nor the photos of surviving garments (which do not show the cuffs > clearly usually though!) any ties sewn onto the cuffs but instead a buttonhole > on each side and the ribbon slipped through each and tied. > > Nicole > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 19:27:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12835 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:27:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6PNF8E08096; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PNF4F13195; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6PNDPF12558 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17XrnP-00056b-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:13:24 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Body scanning at last! Organization: PII Message-ID: <000601c2342f$834c05e0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020725150318.00b9e390@pop.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:03:38 -0700 Status: RO I wonder if you went in wearing a corset and then selected a princess line pattern if it would screw it up too much. I wonder if you (Margo) offerered to work with them on a historical 'sloper' if they would consider a partnership with you? That would be way cool. **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Margo Anderson **Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:03 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com; h-costume@indra.com **Subject: [h-cost] Body scanning at last! ** ** **Look at this! ** **http://www.scansewsuccess.com/index.html ** **You can now get patterns made that are drafted to custom **scans of your body! ** **They say they have 600 pattern options, but they don't say if **they do standard slopers that we could use to base historical **costumes on, nor do they have a contact eamil address for **questions. They do give you a copy of your measurement chart **from the scan. ** **I'm going to do it just to satisfy my curiosity, if nothing else. ** **Margo **"One Tough Costumer" ** ** **See the Historic Costume Patterns website at **margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 20:37:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13101 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:37:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q0OCE13123; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q0OAF09202; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:24:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q0LOF08339 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip142.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.142]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6Q0LJo20286 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:21:20 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Message-ID: <3D40359D.29775.FF98F6A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <3D3FB6C9.24253.E0A0FD6@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:30:05 -0700 Status: RO > >Tablet weaving tends not to be quite as malleable in terms of going > >around things. > > In my files, I have at least one medieval example of a tablet-woven > braid going around a curved neckline, and it's just tucked into little > pleats on the inner edge on a regular basis. Exactly! That's what is so nice about plait braiding is that you don't need those little tucks like you do with most trims and fabric. (Although you can cut a shaped piece of fabric which doesn' t need the tucks.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 20:52:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13136 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:52:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q0e2E14068; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q0e1F14431; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q0duF14414 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a212.in-tch.com [66.62.107.12]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6Q0Px923561 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D409BB6.6BED8D1@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? References: <20020725070411.1861.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:45:42 -0600 Status: RO Oh, cool...thanks for the additional information. Do you happen to know if it's ever been translated into English? --Sue, the mostly completely language-deficient N Kipar wrote: > > Yes, you are right, and the Handschrift (Manuscript) is in Althochdeutsch, as > far as I remember. (Old High german, would probably be starting to change to > Middle High german by that time but I am NOT a German language historical > linguist, but an English one 'by trade') > It is commonly called 'Die Manessische Liederhandschrift' which means > 'song-manuscript' and it is indeed all about the troubadours/Minnesaenger like > Walter von der Vogelweide etc. All about courtly life, the Minne-love, etc. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 21:04:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13175 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:04:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q0phE14701; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q0pgF18221; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q0meF17327 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a212.in-tch.com [66.62.107.12]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6Q0Yh925948 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D409DC3.28B6C764@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:54:27 -0600 Status: RO These things.... http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/017.jpg http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/026.jpg (take a look at the necklines--we're talking about the gold bands) --Sue Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > I'm paying attention, but I'm still not clear on exactly what the > item is that's being described. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 22:05:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13397 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:05:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q1r1E18574; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q1qvF12599; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.siscom.net (1012@shell.siscom.net [209.251.2.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6NHJgG06169 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (drea@localhost) by shell.siscom.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA57657 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:19:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from drea@nospam) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Glass aglets for sale Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hey guys! I am back from London! And have shed my hundred-spams-a-day (for a while at least), so I can get back on the list. I don't know if this has been posted in my absence, but a woman is making glass aglets for Elizabethan dress: http://www.canyonkeep.com/costume.htm It looks very similar to the original item (pic at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/pics/aglet.gif) Expensive, but very pretty. I need to get some to wear with a black velvet gown with silver embroidery. Of course, then I'll have to /make/ the black velvet gown with silver embroidery... Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jul 25 22:46:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13578 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:46:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q2Y2E20587; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q2Y1F24511; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q2XeF24381 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:33:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6Q2WpAh017000 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:32:52 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-reply-to: <3D409BB6.6BED8D1@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:42:02 -0700 Status: RO My new copy of the Mannesse is not in English, but it is a new printing in 8 x 12 size, nice color, and only cost me $30. Try www.amazon.de.com . You can always use bablefish for some quick and dirty translation of a paragraph or two. My friend Master Clement was wondering if there would be a market for Manesse translations. He is getting his Master's in German, and has spent many years in Germany working and playing there. Old German is one of the interests he pursues when he's not working on his thesis (which will land the Humanities on their collective ear and revolutionize them - chuckle!) Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 5:46 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Oh, cool...thanks for the additional information. Do you happen to know if it's ever been translated into English? --Sue, the mostly completely language-deficient N Kipar wrote: > > Yes, you are right, and the Handschrift (Manuscript) is in Althochdeutsch, as > far as I remember. (Old High german, would probably be starting to change to > Middle High german by that time but I am NOT a German language historical > linguist, but an English one 'by trade') > It is commonly called 'Die Manessische Liederhandschrift' which means > 'song-manuscript' and it is indeed all about the troubadours/Minnesaenger like > Walter von der Vogelweide etc. All about courtly life, the Minne-love, etc. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 00:24:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13835 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 00:24:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q4C5E24906; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:12:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q4C2F21402; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q4BVF21275 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a224.in-tch.com [66.62.107.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6Q3vY921353 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:57:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D40CD4E.60839CC9@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: London recommendations was [h-cost] Glass aglets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:17:18 -0600 Status: RO You got to go to London??? How cool!! I'll be there (for the very first time) in just over a month (eeek! I have way, way too much to do!). We're only spending three days in London, actually, so what do you recommend for Absolutely Necessary Site-Seeing for a couple of costume and needlework fiends? I want to go to the V&A, and the Museum of London, but are there specific exhibits you (or anyone on the list) would recommend? Any really spiffy shopping? I wish we had more time in London, but I'm also going to (lessee if I can remember)...Canterbury, Ipswich (for the Sutton Hoo museum), York (for the Jorvik Viking Centre, the Shambles, and the Minster), Shrewsbury (cathedral and other stuff), Bath (Assembly Rooms, Roman Baths, the Costume Museum, where I'll be lucky if I don't get arrested trying to take those Elizabethan shirts home with me! ), Salisbury, some local stuff around Bath, and then it's up through Wales, where I catch the ferry to Dublin, and get 3.5 days there, before I go home in complete exhaustion! So, if anybody (traveler or resident) has any recommendations for their favorite/best spots, I'd love to know them so I can maximize the little time I've got! --Sue, in summer-stormy Montana, watching another thunder/hail storm roll in..... Drea Leed wrote: > > Hey guys! I am back from London! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 00:54:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13936 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 00:54:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q4ftE26290; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q4frF29843; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q4cBF28668 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a224.in-tch.com [66.62.107.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6Q4OD928036 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:24:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D40D38E.BD3F6A0B@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons- alternative ties.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:43:58 -0600 Status: RO Ummm...no, I didn't say that.... I'm not in a guild with a costume director at all....I'm in the SCA, plus I'm a perennial gadfly in the non-SCA period classes on Penny's website (I love historical clothing, but don't have any access to groups other than the SCA). --Sue, catching up on emails.... Betsy Marshall wrote: > > At 8:54 AM -0600 7/24/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: > (snippage) > > Unfortunately our guild's costume director won't let us put them on > our smocks/shirts because we are dressing more or less in the 1570s > and they didn't come into common fashion in England until about 1610. > > (I HATE having to tie my shirt cuffs. They ALWAYS come undone, and > you have to keep tucking the ends back in all day or they get into > your soup and things. I visited Plimoth Plantation a couple of years > ago and took the opportunity to ask some of the ladies there what > they did to keep their "points" tied. They smiled and said, oh, we > just count on having to re-tie them several times a day! Argh!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 01:10:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14284 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:10:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q4w2E26843; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q4w1F04018; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q4vsF03977 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a224.in-tch.com [66.62.107.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6Q4hu903047 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:43:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D40D82C.11A36F0@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Ribbon ties, was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? References: <20020725181053.59310.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 23:03:40 -0600 Status: RO The boy's shirt that's dated to 1540s, with the blue knotwork columbine pattern on the collar and cuffs? I've got a closeup of the neckline/collar area from an old library book (actually clear enough, even after enlarging, to graph the embroidery design), and I don't recall seeing buttonholes in the collar (or eyelet holes). The fabric was solid. I'd wondered if maybe it was pinned closed, or if it'd had ties and they'd worn out..... --Sue, who also seems to recall the cuffs of that thing actually being gathered into a sort of ruffle with a narrow band of some sort of trim or braid or embroidery.... N Kipar wrote: > > > No picture I'm afraid of the shift in the V&A, everytime I've been there the > last times I didn't have a camera with me *growls* I'm getting a good digital > camera for Christmas, so hopefully I won't go out of the house anymore without > it! It isn't in the close-up book either. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 03:01:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15336 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:01:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q6n4E01010; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 00:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q6n2F01195; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 00:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q6jxF00558 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 00:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25908 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 02:11:08 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: 15th century female dress In-Reply-To: <20020725194520.7040.qmail@web40202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 02:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: > Further detail about Dieric Bouts... He's refered to as the Louvain > master, and the picture I referenced previously comes from his Passion > Triptych which I'm presuming resides in Capilla Real, Grenada > (according to the text) and the principle scene is the Descent from > the Cross. I'm going to have to pass on this one. I didn't think there was a Bouts I didn't have a repro of, but I've been through my entire shelf of Flemish art books with no luck, not even a mention of this piece in a list of Bouts' major works. Either it's a really minor work, or it's been re-attributed, or it's by Dirk Bouts the Younger, or something. I haven't seen the Vos book (and I have two or three books with the same title!) -- when was it published? (There's a ton of Flemish art in Spain, but a surprising amount of what I saw there was flagrantly misattributed, not in the major museums, but in the smaller galleries and private collections, where some historian a century ago decided to call some piece or other a "Memling" rather than the more conservative "school of Memling" -- and no one ever bothered to change the tags. More impressive that way ... On the other hand, though, a lot of Flemish work in Spain seems never to have made it into the "standard" lists and references, so I wouldn't be surprised to find an underappreciated Bouts in Grenada.) > The left panel, however, shows a woman in an ivory dress with red > pin-on sleeves hugging the cross beneath Jesus' feet. She has a blue > mantle fallen loosely around her legs/skirt-area. The picture I'm > viewing is on p. 36 of the book called Rogier Van der Weyden, written > by Dirk de Vos. Now that I'm more aware of Magdalene sightings, I'm > guessing this lady is her. That's a traditional position/pose for her. Clue: You may (but not always) find an ointment jar near her, on the ground. > A related question occurs to me... there is a more famous van der > Weyden image of the Descent from the Cross housed in the Museo del > Prado, showing a woman (the Magdalen?) wearing a light, almost > green-grey dress with a fringe of what appears to be blue-ish fur > around the bottom (or perhaps a high-pile velvet?). She wears rich, > red brocade pin-on sleeves, and her arms are bent at a dramatic angle, > hands clasped, presumably in mournful prayer at the sight of Jesus's > dead body. My question concerns the construction of her skirt -- > there's a clear waist seam, but her skirt appears to be constructed > from many, many smaller pieces. The painter took the effort to paint > these tiny seams, radiating out from the waist. There even appears to > be bands that are sewn around the skirt circumference-wise! I'm > wondering why our detail-oriented artist would bother painting these > seams -- surely, constructing a skirt this way makes zero sense -- > it's intensive work, and would take intensive skill to make it drape > well... The only thing I can think of is that it might symbolize > poverty of some kind -- needing to work with scraps. Still, if that > were so, why would she have a rich hem and rich sleeves? So, what I'm > wondering is: is there any historical evidence that this picture could > be depicting a known method for skirt construction? Or, is it an > extremely subtle allegorical point being made? I love this painting. I went to Madrid for this painting (OK, and to see a dear friend, too, but the painting was a major motivation). I spent a lot of time photographing and sketching the weird seams in this dress. They aren't visible in most reproductions, so you have a *really* good picture. (Unless you were there too? You can also see this clearly in the Tournai museum, which has a full-size photographic reproduction of this piece, in a display of Rogier's works. Tournai is exceedingly proud of having been Rogier's hometown, though he left the city pretty much as soon as he could get out, and there are few if any of his actual works there. Tournai is also exceedingly proud of having been the medieval tapestry-manufacture capital, even though there are only about six medieval tapestries left in the town, most of the rest having been exported at the time of manufacture. The best things to come out of Tournai went out of Tournai with great speed. But I digress.) As you've seen, the skirt appears to be pieced in tiers of trapezoidal sections, about four or five inches in height. The tiers of trapezoidal panels are separated with horizontal strips about two inches deep. In all, there are five tiers of panels, four strips between them, plus shorter vertical strips edging the lacing opening in the front. At the bottom is a wide fur band (yes, I think you can definitely say fur). The skirt is partially obscured by a mantle falling over her left hip and left leg. So what's going on here? Beats the hell out of me! Rogier was exceedingly careful about painting clothing realistically, perhaps surpassed only by Jan Van Eyck in that capacity. At the same time, he played a lot of tricks with clothing, and manipulated it frequently for symbolic value. Some of his inventions are so beautifully rendered it's hard to believe they're not real, even if all other evidence points that way. He painted three or four Magdalens in variations of this dress (which is an underdress, by the way), but this is the only one, I think, that has this weird collection of skirt seams. A sign of poverty? I think not, because as you say it's inconsistent with the rest of the clues in the clothing, and Flemish painting generally shows Magdalen as richly dressed (being both a high-priced call girl and saint-in-the-making), except during her penitent-in-the-wilderness period. On the other hand, that kind of piecing might be seen as a sign of richness, because of the skill and labor involved. But you're right -- it doesn't make any sort of sense in construction terms. I have heard one novel theory, and now I can't remember who suggested this to me: What if the skirt is completely lined with fur, and the seam lines show the geometric piecing of the furs? It's still an odd pattern, but at least it would justify the positioning of the small trapezoidal sections (though perhaps not the horizontal strips). By the same token, we might hypothesize that the skirt is quilted, or perhaps stitched down to a lining in this decorative pattern. (Though the pattern looks too structural in nature, and an odd choice if one wanted just to be decorative.) If anyone has any more ideas, I'm all ears. I haven't found a truly convincing explanation yet, except maybe "Rogier having fun again." --Robin, who named her son Roger (really) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 03:18:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22929 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:18:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q762E01452; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q761F04820; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6Q74cF04439 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726070437.70008.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:04:37 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Ribbon ties, was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D40D82C.11A36F0@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:04:37 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > The boy's shirt that's dated to 1540s, with the blue knotwork columbine > pattern on the collar and cuffs? No, I don't mean this one, it's a boy's one after all and before my period of interest. I have VERY close-up photos of it, took themonce in the V&A years ago before they took it out of display when they made the new british galleries. I've got a closeup of the > neckline/collar area from an old library book (actually clear enough, > even after enlarging, to graph the embroidery design), and I don't > recall seeing buttonholes in the collar (or eyelet holes). The fabric You are right, there are none, because the blue ties are sewn onto the stand-up collar. That's the point though, the type of collar and the period. I have a piccie uploaded somewhere on my sites... http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg Here you are, I have an even bigger close-up at home. > was solid. I'd wondered if maybe it was pinned closed, or if it'd had > ties and they'd worn out..... Ties are on there. > --Sue, who also seems to recall the cuffs of that thing actually being > gathered into a sort of ruffle with a narrow band of some sort of trim > or braid or embroidery.... I have a close-up of the cuffs too. they are gathered into a band, just like any old shirt, but then there's a small ruffle which is gathered into the band too. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 03:30:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01147 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q7I5E01768; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:18:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q7I1F07953; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6Q7GpF07659 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726071650.44520.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:16:50 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: London recommendations was [h-cost] Glass aglets To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D40CD4E.60839CC9@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:16:50 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > You got to go to London??? How cool!! > I'll be there (for the very first time) in just over a month (eeek! I > have way, way too much to do!). > I wish we had more time in London, but I'm also going to (lessee if I > can remember)...Canterbury, Canterbury? CANTERBURY?? when Sue, when? I work in Canterbury, right near the city centre, close to the cathedral, at Canterbury Christ Church University College. If you are here on a week day we could meet for a coffee? (or tea :-) at lunchtime? Ipswich (for the Sutton Hoo museum), Hehehe, you can't avoid me, because my voice is on the visitor video, I am speaking Old English and also whispering a modern English translation. Colin (Ben's dad) is on a HUGELY blown up photo in the exhibition, and all of us are in the video too. You HAVE to go do a quick visit at least to Wst Stow Anglo-Saxon village, it is only a very few miles away, 15 mins tops? Ben made the reproductions for the military stule belt fittings in the museum and I finished off the arrows, Colin made part of them. > York (for the Jorvik Viking Centre, the Shambles, and the Minster), Absolutely, and the button shop, and Betsy's (which is a traditional Edwardian style cake place with the most wonderful delicious sweeties, such a nice place). Don't forget the York museum, which is in the gardens. It has some very interesting bits. > Shrewsbury (cathedral and other stuff), would yu believe I've never been there? Bath (Assembly Rooms, Roman > Baths, the Costume Museum, where I'll be lucky if I don't get arrested > trying to take those Elizabethan shirts home with me! ), Salisbury, > some local stuff around Bath, and then it's up through Wales, where I > catch the ferry to Dublin, and get 3.5 days there, before I go home in > complete exhaustion! Dublin! Ohhhh, the national museum is one of my very favourite European ones, beautiful building and the jewellery and metalwork in the exhibitin I can only say BREATHTAKING! Are you going to see the book of Kells too? You have to! > So, if anybody (traveler or resident) has any recommendations for their > favorite/best spots, I'd love to know them so I can maximize the little > time I've got! See above :-) Nicole - in humid Canterbury ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 03:41:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17893 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:41:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q7T2E02071; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q7T1F10410; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6Q7RrF10164 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726072752.48829.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:27:52 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: ties/closures To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <10a201c2342d$d4eefd00$eaf4fea9@glendaii> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:27:52 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Glenda Robinson wrote: > Very interesting! > > I've always done the cuffs similar to the neckline ties when I've used > sewn-on ties, as that's all I can see from the pictorial evidence that > we get over here. I haven't had any originals come out to Australia on > tour. I have got some patterns from extant 17th century shirts, but > never realised this. Yeeeees... but I may be wrong :-) That's the problem with anything like trying to re-create period clothes correctly. have only so much material, and only so many paintings that show this, it could well be that there are others that I don't have, or that seem to be like this but in reality are different because the photo is from the 1930s and a bad b/w one etc. So, please always add a disclaimer. ;-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 05:04:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26075 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 05:04:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q8q5E05001; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 02:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q8q0F27459; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 02:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q8orF27246 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 02:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKJOL2WW9C000SH9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:50:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKJOL2CGOY000S3R@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:50:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:46:43 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:45:51 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.76) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:45:47 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ribbon ties In-reply-to: <200207251804.g6PI4MF19321@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2B168E22DC4@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:45:47 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Do the existing shirts actually have pairs of worked buttonhles? > I've heard of cuffs and neckbands tied with ribbons that were taken > directly through the fabric with a needle, but buttonholes seem to > have escaped me. I'd love a reference to a picture! I knew nothing about this buttonholes and ties business until this thread came up on list. I've actually done a variation on it myself - one of my 15th century shirts fastens at the neck with a tie through two hand-worked eyelets on the collar. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 05:22:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26155 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 05:22:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q9A5E05428; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q9A0F01233; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q99CF01044 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6Q99Ah14828 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:09:10 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:09:10 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Wanda Pease wrote: > My new copy of the Mannesse is not in English, but it is a new printing in 8 > x 12 size, nice color, and only cost me $30. Try www.amazon.de.com . You > can always use bablefish for some quick and dirty translation of a paragraph > or two. Hi! Does this have all the illustrations and in colour? How good is the picture quality? If it's good I'll be placing an order today, thanks for the tip. :) An English translation would definitely also be interesting, but for me it would depend on the price since I can read German fairly well, if slow. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 05:37:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26179 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 05:37:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q9P3E05782; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q9P1F02245; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10308.mail.yahoo.com (web10308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6Q9MvF28685 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:22:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726092256.38180.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.1.45.6] by web10308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:22:56 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207251525.g6PFP6F13250@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-814717713-1027675376=:37109" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1107 - 14 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:22:56 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-814717713-1027675376=:37109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Oh, with whom? I go to every Oxford (now Warwick) market. I trade as myself - well 'Deborah Lough Costumes', anyway. >Okay, just let me know where to find you nearer at the time. :-) >Nicole Can't say exactly where I'll be, because I won't find out until I get there, but if you have access to a map, I'll be somewhere in the box marked 'period traders'. (Out of hours I'll be camping with the Normans, but could actually be anywhere - soooo many friends from other periods to visit!) --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-814717713-1027675376=:37109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>Oh, with whom? I go to every Oxford (now Warwick) market.

I trade as myself - well 'Deborah Lough Costumes', anyway.

>Okay, just let me know where to find you nearer at the time. :-)
>Nicole

Can't say exactly where I'll be, because I won't find out until I get there, but if you have access to a map, I'll be somewhere in the box marked 'period traders'.  (Out of hours I'll be camping with the Normans, but could actually be anywhere - soooo many friends from other periods to visit!)


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-814717713-1027675376=:37109-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 05:48:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26202 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 05:48:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q9a3E06027; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q9a1F04644; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10306.mail.yahoo.com (web10306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6Q9Z9F04474 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726093509.59650.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.1.45.6] by web10306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:35:09 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207251525.g6PFP6F13250@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1785702672-1027676109=:59539" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1107 - 14 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:35:09 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1785702672-1027676109=:59539 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Drawstrings have been discussed at length on this list, and the consensus seems to be >that they were not usual before the 18th century, but they're still commonly seen in >readymade reenactors' garments. >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby None of the V&A, (or anywhere else), examples of earlier shifts / chemises I've seen of the earlier dates have drawstrings - it's almost exclusively ties through two buttonholes, which are stitched into a proper cuff (or neckband on higher necked stuff). I think the reason so many ready made shifts, etc., have drawstrings is simple - it's faster (therefore cheaper) to just create a double hem and thread a drawstring than it is to make a proper cuff / neckband. And as a result most re-enactors think drawstrings are correct. My customers are amazed when they place an order with me, and I tell them that I'll use drawstrings if they really want, but there's virtually no evidence for them that I'm aware of! Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1785702672-1027676109=:59539 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>Drawstrings have been discussed at length on this list, and the consensus seems to be >that they were not usual before the 18th century, but they're still commonly seen in >readymade reenactors' garments.

>Kate Bunting

>Library, University of Derby

None of the V&A, (or anywhere else), examples of earlier shifts / chemises I've seen of the earlier dates have drawstrings - it's almost exclusively ties through two buttonholes, which are stitched into a proper cuff (or neckband on higher necked stuff). 

I think the reason so many ready made shifts, etc., have drawstrings is simple - it's faster (therefore cheaper) to just create a double hem and thread a drawstring than it is to make a proper cuff / neckband.

And as a result most re-enactors think drawstrings are correct.  My customers are amazed when they place an order with me, and I tell them that I'll use drawstrings if they really want, but there's virtually no evidence for them that I'm aware of!

Debbie.


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1785702672-1027676109=:59539-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 06:00:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26240 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:00:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6Q9m3E06312; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q9m1F07114; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6Q9jgF06635 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:45:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKJQHUAM5S000OPK@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:45:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKJQGR4V96000V65@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:44:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:40:31 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:40:22 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.76) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:40:19 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming Maypole Dancers In-reply-to: <200207252153.g6PLrBF01608@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2B251784151@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:40:18 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Here's what I'm thinking of doing. Any comments and suggestions > would be greatly appreciated. > > 1. Design. I'm leaning toward the standard Renn Faire peasant > look, with long full sleeved smocks, flowing skirts, and laced > bodices for the girls, and loose shirts, knee length breeches, and > jerkins for the boys. Traditionally the dancers wear garlands, so > we don't need hats. > I'd like to keep the traditional mostly white clothing, and possibly > have the bodices and jerkins be assorted bright colors. Multicolored > ribbons may be used as trim. Then I'd suggest saving yourself (or whoever) a lot of sewing and make basic white drawstring neck and wrist chemises in various lengths (to accomodate various heights of girls) in thick enough fabric that additional white skirts over the top aren't necessary and make coloured bodices in various sizes to go over them. The bodices can lace up centre front and both side backs (or side both sides, if you prefer) so each one will adjust to a range of sizes around the size it is made in without any need to do extra sewing (a tip here is to sew the ends of the lacing cords into the bodice so they don't go astray..) For the boys, the jerkins can be done the same way as the bodices, which just needs a set of baggy shirts and breeches that can fairly-well be one-size-fits-most. > Clothing that adapts to different sizes and is easily altered is a > must. I'm thinking elastic waists on skirts and breeches, > bodices and jerkins constructed theatrical style, with large, > easily let out side and shoulder seams, and skirts and sleeves > with tucks that can be let out. Letting out or taking in seams is avoidable work if you do lacings instead. A placket behind the lacings will deal with any possible gaping. We've made sets of loan-garb for our "Medieval Society" in this way. 4 dresses in different sizes, each a different colour, each adjustable by lacings at side-backs and centre fronts so we can fit pretty much anyone. > 4. Construction Much as I love to sew, I don't wnat to make 20 > costumes all by myself. I'm thinking of offering a series of free > workshops, in "Making a Shirt", "Making a Bodice", etc. > Particpants would construct the garments in class, but they would > remain school property. Participants would receive a copy of the > pattern and class handouts for their own use. Would that work? Sounds like a good plan. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 06:23:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26323 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:23:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QAB3E06840; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QAB0F11927; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10308.mail.yahoo.com (web10308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.86]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QAAYF11792 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726101033.44978.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.1.45.6] by web10308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:10:33 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= Subject: Re: London recommendations was [h-cost] Glass aglets To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207260501.g6Q51EF04947@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1228129097-1027678233=:44866" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:10:33 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1228129097-1027678233=:44866 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sue, In London there's Klein's haberdashery shop, and Foyles book shop. In York, as well as Yorvik (just refurbed) and York Minster, of course, are York City Art Gallery, The Merchant Adventurer's Hall, York Castle Museum, Fairfax House, The Barley Hall. The Tourist Information Office can point you to all of these. Also in York is The Viking Loom embroidery and craft shop, near the Minster (website is www.vikingloom.co.uk). Oh, and you can't go to York without having tea at Betty's! (Be warned, though, don't go at lunchtime or tea time (queues out the door!)) Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1228129097-1027678233=:44866 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 
Sue,

In London there's Klein's haberdashery shop, and Foyles book shop.

In York, as well as Yorvik (just refurbed) and York Minster, of course, are York City Art Gallery, The Merchant Adventurer's Hall, York Castle Museum, Fairfax House, The Barley Hall.  The Tourist Information Office can point you to all of these.

Also in York is The Viking Loom embroidery and craft shop, near the Minster (website is www.vikingloom.co.uk).

Oh, and you can't go to York without having tea at Betty's!  (Be warned, though, don't go at lunchtime or tea time (queues out the door!))

Debbie.


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1228129097-1027678233=:44866-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 06:40:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26380 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:40:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QAS5E07306; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QAS3F15683; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QAQUF15332 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:26:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKJRWKG9BK000SH9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:26:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKJRWJJ4YC000SXU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:26:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:22:15 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:21:57 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.76) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:21:53 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: 15th century female dress In-reply-to: <200207261015.g6QAFgF13010@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2B302E72297@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:21:53 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I have heard one novel theory, and now I can't remember who suggested > this to me: What if the skirt is completely lined with fur, and the > seam lines show the geometric piecing of the furs? That's exactly what I was thinking from reading your description of it (and from studying reproductions of it last time this dress was mentioned). Can't say if I had the same thought or if I'm remembering it being suggested last time the dress was discussed on list.... > It's still an odd pattern, but at least it would justify the > positioning of the small trapezoidal sections (though perhaps not > the horizontal strips). By the same token, we might hypothesize > that the skirt is quilted, or perhaps stitched down to a lining in > this decorative pattern. (Though the pattern looks too structural > in nature, and an odd choice if one wanted just to be decorative.) Perhaps the lining was one of *those* fabrics that sagged and wrinkled but only became apparent after the garment was made so they quilted it to the garment to keep it in place and made a feature of it...? Again, a guess. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 06:55:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26540 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:55:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QAh3E07717; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:43:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QAh2F18795; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QAf6F18386 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726104105.60981.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:41:05 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1107 - 14 msgs To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020726092256.38180.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:41:05 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Debbie Lough wrote: > > Can't say exactly where I'll be, because I won't find out until I get there, > but if you have access to a map, I'll be somewhere in the box marked 'period > traders'. (Out of hours I'll be camping with the Normans, but could actually > be anywhere - soooo many friends from other periods to visit!) Okiedokie, I try to find you, but we are so few people in our group at Kirby that I might not be able to leave the encampment to go to the trader's market. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 08:44:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27269 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:44:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QCW6E11125; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QCW2F13218; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.siscom.net (1012@shell.siscom.net [209.251.2.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QCUsF12880 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (drea@localhost) by shell.siscom.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA88117 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:30:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from drea@nospam) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: London recommendations was [h-cost] Glass aglets In-Reply-To: <3D40CD4E.60839CC9@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Let's see...the V&A is top of my list. They have some really lovely gowns on display in their costume section (though a substantial number of them are temporarily in storage to make room for an exhibit of 20th century evening gowns....ARRGH!) and also some good 16th century clothing in their Britain 1500-1900 exhibit. Their textile exhibit is an absolute must see , and the textile study rooms right next to them, which are filled with hundreds upon hundreds of flat panels of fabric and embroidery from every period in history. They also have textile pieces scattered here and there throughout their museum. And they allow you to take photographs, too. Their British Exhibition has a 16th c. braid sample book on display, too. After that...well, it's a tough choice. The Globe theatre is something you absolutely cannot miss, if you like later period stuff. They have a wonderful exhibit there, including some 16th century clothing and a fascinating recreation of a 16th century tailor's shop. Twelfth Night is currently being performed in hand-sewn, excruciatingly authentic clothing. WHen I saw it, I felt like I had been whisked 400 years back in time. It was really something. The Museum of London has some really good earlier period stuff. Some textiles, quite a few shoes, but the bulk of it is tools, metal, wood, pottery, art. They allow photos, too. The National Portrait gallery has a rather small Tudor section, but it's chock full of all those famous paintings that you see reproduced everywhere: Queen Elizabeth, Lady Jane Grey, etc. The British museum has very little in the way of textiles, but a breathtaking jewelry section, and quite a lot of earlier period accessories and items. As for Shopping: well, Teddy can give you the best on that. :) He took me all around the Oxford Circus area, to stores selling lovely and very expensive fabric (including one silk gauze with peacock feathers handsewn all over it!) and to Liberty's of London. I've heard very good things about the Handweaver's Studio. They have a transcription of the aforementioned braid sample book in the V&A, among other things. As for bath: the costume museum is really great. Their display of gowns on modern mannequins with padding added leaves a bit to be desired, but the gowns themself are breathtaking. They have two sixteenth century smocks and lots of embroidered 16th c. gloves on display. Have fun! Drea On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > You got to go to London??? How cool!! > I'll be there (for the very first time) in just over a month (eeek! I > have way, way too much to do!). We're only spending three days in > London, actually, so what do you recommend for Absolutely Necessary > Site-Seeing for a couple of costume and needlework fiends? I want to go > to the V&A, and the Museum of London, but are there specific exhibits > you (or anyone on the list) would recommend? Any really spiffy shopping? > I wish we had more time in London, but I'm also going to (lessee if I > can remember)...Canterbury, Ipswich (for the Sutton Hoo museum), York > (for the Jorvik Viking Centre, the Shambles, and the Minster), > Shrewsbury (cathedral and other stuff), Bath (Assembly Rooms, Roman > Baths, the Costume Museum, where I'll be lucky if I don't get arrested > trying to take those Elizabethan shirts home with me! ), Salisbury, > some local stuff around Bath, and then it's up through Wales, where I > catch the ferry to Dublin, and get 3.5 days there, before I go home in > complete exhaustion! > > So, if anybody (traveler or resident) has any recommendations for their > favorite/best spots, I'd love to know them so I can maximize the little > time I've got! > > --Sue, in summer-stormy Montana, watching another thunder/hail storm > roll in..... > > Drea Leed wrote: > > > > Hey guys! I am back from London! > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 09:29:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27403 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:29:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QDHOE12985; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:17:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QDHAF24981; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp1out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp1out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.226]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QDGAF24604 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-168-32-190.nyc.rr.com [24.168.32.190]) by nycsmtp1out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g6QDF8Za004521 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:15:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] More on ties on shirts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-reply-to: <20020725183623.87125.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:15:50 -0300 Status: RO Nicole This may be a dumb question - but are Manyoki and Kupecky both artists? Where did you find these paintings? I love the detail, but now I want to see the whole painting (and more) by the same artists. Martha http://www.kipar.org/temp/1711_selfportrait-manyoki.jpg and http://www.kipar.org/temp/1690s_youngma_kupecky.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 09:41:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27445 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:41:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QDSgE13652; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QDSZF28651; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QDNIF27055 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726132312.95545.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:23:12 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] More on ties on shirts To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:23:12 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Martha Kelly wrote: > Nicole > > This may be a dumb question - but are Manyoki and Kupecky both artists? > Where did you find these paintings? I love the detail, but now I want to > see the whole painting (and more) by the same artists. > > Martha Yes they are both artists. Kupecky (or Kupetzky) was a german artist, but like so many worked all around Europe. There was an exhibition I think in Aachen or near this past year and a friend of mine who works as a guide got me the catalogue, chockerblock full of portraits with amazing details. Manyoki, hmm... have a look on CGFA or the Web gallery of art, I think I got the image from there, am pretty sure. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 10:19:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27538 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:19:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QE6XE15946; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:06:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QE6Wk11091; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:06:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QDvvF07844 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:58:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A58F1303E6; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:58:39 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dorset buttons- alternative ties.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3D40D38E.BD3F6A0B@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:58:39 -0500 Status: RO umm- that's sorta my fault- I left in the bit I was responding to, and put my remarks at the bottom, which seem to have disappeared... sigh. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:44 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons- alternative ties.. Ummm...no, I didn't say that.... I'm not in a guild with a costume director at all....I'm in the SCA, plus I'm a perennial gadfly in the non-SCA period classes on Penny's website (I love historical clothing, but don't have any access to groups other than the SCA). --Sue, catching up on emails.... Betsy Marshall wrote: > > At 8:54 AM -0600 7/24/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: > (snippage) > > Unfortunately our guild's costume director won't let us put them on > our smocks/shirts because we are dressing more or less in the 1570s > and they didn't come into common fashion in England until about 1610. > > (I HATE having to tie my shirt cuffs. They ALWAYS come undone, and > you have to keep tucking the ends back in all day or they get into > your soup and things. I visited Plimoth Plantation a couple of years > ago and took the opportunity to ask some of the ladies there what > they did to keep their "points" tied. They smiled and said, oh, we > just count on having to re-tie them several times a day! Argh!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 10:45:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27628 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:45:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QEWuE18089; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QEWsk22027; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:32:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QETRk20538 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01488 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:30:13 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: London recommendations was [h-cost] Glass aglets In-Reply-To: <20020726101033.44978.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:30:12 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Debbie Lough wrote: > In London there's Klein's haberdashery shop, and Foyles book shop. The clerks at Foyle's have an international reputation for being aloof and unhelpful, though I'll grant they may have changed in the last decade (but I doubt it). Last time I was there, the books were filed by publisher. Don't waste your time there unless you know exactly what you want. The rest of Charing Cross Road has much more to offer. Does anyone know if Ian Shipley's bookstore is still in business? He had wonderful used art books and knew a lot about what was available. And there's Zwemmer's, which specialized in art and related topics. Both are on the stretch of Charing Cross between Leicester Square and Trafalger Square, or maybe slightly north of Leicester Square, I forget -- look them up first. At the end of the walk, stop at St. Martin-in-the-Fields at Trafalger Square and have lunch in the crypt by the Brass Rubbing Centre, which has a lovely gift shop. (Or did. All my info is 10 years old. Can someone please confirm these places are still operating?) Then walk across the street and spend the rest of the day at the National Gallery and National Portrait Gallery. You can check your bags of books at the cloakroom. Early on, while you come by Leicester Square as you walk down Charing Cross Road, stop by the half-price ticket booth and choose from one of the many many plays available that evening. A Time Out magazine will give you capsule reviews, and a board outside the booth will tell you what's available for that night. (Londoners, is this still the case?) Then, when the museums close, grab a quick pub dinner and walk a few blocks to the theater district, where you can check your bags of books at the cloakroom before settling in for a London play. Do this on a weekday if you can. Some of the bookstores may even be open late, to help you fill that time. Elsewhere in London: In Knightsbridge, off Brompton Road halfway between Harrod's and the V&A, is a side street called Beauchamp Place. It used to have a Reject China Shop (yum) and a tiny specialty bookstore called Heraldry Today. I got my books on brass rubbings there, and at St. George's Gallery Books, another specialty shop with new and used stuff (but I forget where they're located, I think near the British Library?). St. George's was bought by Zwemmer's a few years ago, but last I heard was still operating. Does anyone know? Your very first book purchase in London should be an A-to-Z street map. You can get a small one for inner London, or a big one to cover the suburbs. It marks practically every crack in the street, it's so detailed. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 11:08:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27692 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QEtqE19967; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:55:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QEtpk02445; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:55:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QEkxk28118 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6QEk9Ah018231 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:46:10 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medievalcross-dressing? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-reply-to: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:55:19 -0700 Status: RO Ingrid, I believe it has all the pictures, at least it has 137 full page (about standard size paper) illustrations, and they are fairly sharp. In fact they may be better than the facsimile that came out about 15 -20 years ago because the aging of the print media and bleed through from the original has been cleaned up. I bought one of those facsimile copies for a friend when I was in Germany at the time (300 DM. What a fool I was not to have found the money for one for myself, but there were other things then!). The biggest problem in ordering from Germany is the hideous cost of postage and handling. It's normal to pay as much for that as for the book! If you have any friends there that you could have the book sent to and then trans-shipped to you, it might be worth it (that may only work if your friends have access to the APO (military) postal system though. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Ingrid G. Storro Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 2:09 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medievalcross-dressing? On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Wanda Pease wrote: > My new copy of the Mannesse is not in English, but it is a new printing in 8 > x 12 size, nice color, and only cost me $30. Try www.amazon.de.com . You > can always use bablefish for some quick and dirty translation of a paragraph > or two. Hi! Does this have all the illustrations and in colour? How good is the picture quality? If it's good I'll be placing an order today, thanks for the tip. :) An English translation would definitely also be interesting, but for me it would depend on the price since I can read German fairly well, if slow. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 11:13:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27715 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:13:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QF1AE20561; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:01:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QF16k04967; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QEukk02913 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:56:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip247.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.247]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6QEufo26333 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:56:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <3D4102BA.258.131AE690@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020726070437.70008.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3D40D82C.11A36F0@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Subject: [h-cost] Re: V&As 1540s Boys Shirt, was, re: Ribbon ties, Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:05:14 -0700 Status: RO The thing I find fascinating about this shirt is the way the sleeves are inset. The sleeve itself is a rectangle. The hole it goes into is a rectangle with a little triangle going up into the rectangle making a self gusset. I've made a couple of these now and they work great! The only way to see this is to get under the arm (and I found a photograph of it in a blackwork book, fortunately) because it didn't show up in any of the many photographs I took of it at the V&A. (There is a band cuff, heavily embroidered like the collar, with a small frill beyond that.) However, I'd be willing to bet that Nicole is more interested in the early 17th C Italian Chemise they have (the one which is also pictured as a drawing only in Cut my Cote.) > --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > The boy's shirt > that's dated > to 1540s, with the blue knotwork columbine > > pattern on the collar and cuffs? > > No, I don't mean this one, it's a boy's one after all and before my > period of interest. I have VERY close-up photos of it, took themonce > in the V&A years ago before they took it out of display when they made > the new british galleries. > > I've got a closeup of the > > neckline/collar area from an old library book (actually clear > > enough, even after enlarging, to graph the embroidery design), and I > > don't recall seeing buttonholes in the collar (or eyelet holes). The > > fabric > > You are right, there are none, because the blue ties are sewn onto the > stand-up collar. That's the point though, the type of collar and the > period. I have a piccie uploaded somewhere on my sites... > http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg Here you > are, I have an even bigger close-up at home. > > > was solid. I'd wondered if maybe it was pinned closed, or if it'd > > had ties and they'd worn out..... > > Ties are on there. > > > --Sue, who also seems to recall the cuffs of that thing actually > > being gathered into a sort of ruffle with a narrow band of some sort > > of trim or braid or embroidery.... > > I have a close-up of the cuffs too. they are gathered into a band, > just like any old shirt, but then there's a small ruffle which is > gathered into the band too. > > Nicole Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 12:03:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27906 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:03:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QFp2E25355; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QFp1k01431; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QFoIk01089 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020726155013.SQVW14958.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:50:13 +0000 Message-ID: <3D416FBD.5070808@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glass aglets for sale References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:50:21 -0700 Status: RO May I ask what are aglets? Roscelin Drea Leed wrote: >Hey guys! I am back from London! And have shed my hundred-spams-a-day >(for a while at least), so I can get back on the list. > >I don't know if this has been posted in my absence, but a woman is making glass aglets for Elizabethan dress: >http://www.canyonkeep.com/costume.htm > >It looks very similar to the original item (pic at >http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/pics/aglet.gif) > >Expensive, but very pretty. I need to get some to wear with a black >velvet gown with silver embroidery. Of course, then I'll have to /make/ >the black velvet gown with silver embroidery... > >Drea > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 12:35:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28070 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:35:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QGN4E28669; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QGN1k18858; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QGMwk18827 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:22:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726162258.41500.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:22:58 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: V&As 1540s Boys Shirt, was, re: Ribbon ties, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D4102BA.258.131AE690@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:22:58 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > The only way to see this is to get under the arm (and I found a > photograph of it in a blackwork book, fortunately) because it didn't > show up in any of the many photographs I took of it at the V&A. > (There is a band cuff, heavily embroidered like the collar, with a > small frill beyond that.) Would you care to share the piccie at all, if possible? I AM interested, because of the development I am interested in everything +- 100 years before and after, often the actual garment of the period in queston becomes more logical when seeing what was before and sometimes even after. > However, I'd be willing to bet that Nicole is more interested in the > early 17th C Italian Chemise they have (the one which is also > pictured as a drawing only in Cut my Cote.) Yeeeesss... but they have now on display yet another one! nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 12:50:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28129 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:50:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QGc3E00356; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QGc1k27013; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx10.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.20]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QGbfk26774 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx10.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 44354665 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:36:43 -0400 Message-ID: <00a801c234c2$a230c480$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:36:45 -0500 Status: RO Since we're on the subject...:-) When looking at pictures in Patterns of Fashion, it seems that lacing eyelets are rather small (I think somewhere the measurement 1/8" was used). However, the aiglets I am using on my ties are much larger (approx 1/4" at widest point) which require a hole at least 3/8" wide if not bigger. And I know that portraits of nobles show larger aiglets as well. Are those larger aiglets just for show? How did they finish off a tie/lace so that it didn't fray away? And just what is cotton/linen tape that some of you are using for shirt ties, and where do I get some? I tried using cotton crochet string as ties on the latest shirt I made, and it looked really good, just like the portraits, but I ended up having to cut them off to get my husband out of it because they knotted up so badly. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 12:51:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28150 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:51:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QGdEE00498; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:39:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QGdDk27719; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:39:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.siscom.net (1012@shell.siscom.net [209.251.2.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QGcok27484 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:38:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (drea@localhost) by shell.siscom.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA90243 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:38:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from drea@nospam) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glass aglets for sale In-Reply-To: <3D416FBD.5070808@attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO They are the tips attached to the ends of laces so you can get them through lacing holes or grommets. Drea On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Rose Amberwulf wrote: > May I ask what are aglets? > > Roscelin > > Drea Leed wrote: > > >Hey guys! I am back from London! And have shed my hundred-spams-a-day > >(for a while at least), so I can get back on the list. > > > >I don't know if this has been posted in my absence, but a woman is making glass aglets for Elizabethan dress: > >http://www.canyonkeep.com/costume.htm > > > >It looks very similar to the original item (pic at > >http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/pics/aglet.gif) > > > >Expensive, but very pretty. I need to get some to wear with a black > >velvet gown with silver embroidery. Of course, then I'll have to /make/ > >the black velvet gown with silver embroidery... > > > >Drea > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 13:07:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28340 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:07:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QGt3E02227; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QGt1k06927; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.siscom.net (1012@shell.siscom.net [209.251.2.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QGsCk06460 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (drea@localhost) by shell.siscom.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA90415 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:54:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from drea@nospam) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets In-Reply-To: <00a801c234c2$a230c480$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Rebecca Schmitt wrote: > Since we're on the subject...:-) > > When looking at pictures in Patterns of Fashion, it seems that lacing > eyelets are rather small (I think somewhere the measurement 1/8" was used). > However, the aiglets I am using on my ties are much larger (approx 1/4" at > widest point) which require a hole at least 3/8" wide if not bigger. And I > know that portraits of nobles show larger aiglets as well. Are those larger > aiglets just for show? How did they finish off a tie/lace so that it didn't > fray away? They had aglets of many sizes, but the ones I've seen are on the whole narrower than the usual "bolo points" you get from craft stores. Aglets were used for decoration as well. In fact, http://costume.dm.net/images/audley.jpg is a good example of aglets used for decoration as well as fastening. Enameled cloissonee (I know I murdered that spelling) barrel beads make great decorative aglets. If you want small points, use brass bugle beads (example at http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/dublet/dubdetail1.jpg) to tip your laces. both are available from jewelry and bead supply stores. I know some people that make smaller aglet points, but unfortunately don't have their contact info to hand. I get my linen lacing tape from Wooded Hamlet (http://www.woodedhamlet.com) It's great stuff! Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 14:15:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28903 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:15:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QI2WE09354; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QI2Tk14203; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:02:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QI0lk13111 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip227.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.227]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6QI0go26386 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:00:43 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: V&As 1540s Boys Shirt, was, re: Ribbon ties, Message-ID: <3D412DC8.976.13C31BFB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020726162258.41500.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3D4102BA.258.131AE690@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:08:56 -0700 Status: RO From: N Kipar Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: V&As 1540s Boys Shirt, was, re: Ribbon ties, To: h-costume@indra.com Send reply to: h-costume@indra.com Date sent: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:22:58 +0100 (BST) > --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > The only way to see this is to get under the arm (and I found a > > photograph of it in a blackwork book, fortunately) because it didn't > > show up in any of the many photographs I took of it at the V&A. > > (There is a band cuff, heavily embroidered like the collar, with a > > small frill beyond that.) > > Would you care to share the piccie at all, if possible? I AM > interested, because of the development I am interested in everything > +- 100 years before and after, often the actual garment of the period > in queston becomes more logical when seeing what was before and > sometimes even after. That is so true. However, the files (when I scan the slide to become a jpg) end up too big to send. I don't have a website (or time to build one if I had access to one, at least not for the next 3 weeks.) Also, I don't want to run afoul of the V&A. I made promises about my pictures when I took them (although that was for the textile room), and I don't want to make it so that they don't trust me to come take pictures again some day. (Too far in the future at this point, damn the economy.) > > However, I'd be willing to bet that Nicole is more interested in the > > early 17th C Italian Chemise they have (the one which is also > > pictured as a drawing only in Cut my Cote.) > > Yeeeesss... but they have now on display yet another one! I wish they had had that one on display when I was there. However, I was thrilled to get the boy's shirt photographed. Shoot, I didn't even realize they had it *there* until someone mentioned it on this list recently. I then looked up my Cut My Cote. I had thought it was from the Ontario Museum that sponsored the booklet.) Nicole, have you considered writing to the V&A and getting an appointment to see that chemise. You can't take pictures of it, but you could draw the embroideries and get an even better idea of the actual stitching. (At least you live on the right continent for getting there before I do.) I got such a kick out of the museums. The V&A will let you not only photograph in the textile section, but use flash. However, during your appointment you're not allowed to use any sort of photography (unless you are Janet Arnold, who I suspect had to pay them for the privilege.) And no tripods. In the US it's the opposite. If you are allowed to use a camera at all, you cannot use flash but you can get permission (pretty easily, from what I've experienced) to use a tripod (except on holidays and weekends.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 14:31:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28998 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QIJ1E10734; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QIJ0k22967; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-scanout.kumc.edu (kumc-scanout-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.198]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QIISk22700 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: FROM gatedo.kumc.edu BY kumc-scanout.kumc.edu ; Fri Jul 26 13:04:46 2002 -0500 Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-Message_Server by gatedo.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:04:47 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6QIISk22700 Subject: [h-cost] Robbon ties Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:04:39 -0500 Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > The only way to see this is to get under the arm (and I found a > photograph of it in a blackwork book, fortunately) b Would you care to share the piccie at all, if possible? nicole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Me too! Or reference the book this was in? Perhaps a sketch of the pattern layout? It sounds like something I would like to try. The ribbon ties in the pictures Nicole posted reminded me of the ribbons you see when tieing the points on the outside of the doublet, etc. was popular. If you had lots of ties laying around for this, I could see where having a few extras for the shirt would be no big deal and they would always be handy so this method makes a little more sense. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 14:35:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29016 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:35:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QINHE11075; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:23:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QINHk25134; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:23:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QIMsk24910 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:22:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726182253.17187.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:22:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ribbon ties To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:22:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > Me too! Or reference the book this was in? Perhaps a sketch of the pattern > layout? It sounds like something I would like to try. Yep, I agree, a sketch is all I need too. *S* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 14:44:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29040 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:44:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QIW9E11887; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:32:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QIW8k29595; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QIVpk29433 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:31:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726183150.40176.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:31:50 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: V&As 1540s Boys Shirt, was, re: Ribbon ties, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D412DC8.976.13C31BFB@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:31:50 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > That is so true. However, the files (when I scan the slide to become > a jpg) end up too big to send. I don't have a website (or time to > build one if I had access to one, at least not for the next 3 weeks.) Would a quick sketch perhaps do? Not now, not when you're busy, I know the problem, just eventually perhaps. > Also, I don't want to run afoul of the V&A. I made promises about > my pictures when I took them (although that was for the textile > room), and I don't want to make it so that they don't trust me to > come take pictures again some day. (Too far in the future at this > point, damn the economy.) I don't need photos, thanks, but I took LOTS of photos in the V&A myself, I have quite a few of the shirt and yes, I have them all on a web site, in fact on several web sites. I do not agree with not showing photos of the extant garments and I do have permission to show even the V&A's own photos (postcards) anyway. I asked nicely, and lo and behold, I got the permission. A sketch would be super, it's just the contsruction of the rectangled sleeve I'm interested in but i do understand when you don't have time! What's the book BTW, I might even have it. :-) > Nicole, have you considered writing to the V&A and getting an > appointment to see that chemise. The chemise is on display, no? Which one do you mean now? I am getting confused *L* Yes, and I talked to Susan North when I last met her, she said to drop a line and take a look at whatever I want to (their great coat is first on the list!!!) but shooo, I didn't have time yet, have to do it in winter though I'll see her next on the late night view on 7th August. You can't take pictures of it, but > you could draw the embroideries and get an even better idea of the > actual stitching. (At least you live on the right continent for getting > there before I do.) The embroidered one other one? No problem, that one is displayed and so well that one can see just about everything, I have about 5 drawings of it (not the emb roideries because shifts were not embroidered anymore in the period I re-enact so I didn't bother) but my drawings are awful ;-) > I got such a kick out of the museums. The V&A will let you not > only photograph in the textile section, but use flash. However, The flash is severely, severly frowned upon, I never ever photograph ANY textiles whatsoever with flash. *S* but yes, they don't spank your hide when you do use it. > during your appointment you're not allowed to use any sort of > photography (unless you are Janet Arnold, who I suspect had to > pay them for the privilege.) And no tripods. You are allowed, if it is for the proper kind of research, but the permission is dificult to get, I am willing to try it though, because I do need illustrations of some actual garments in my PhD. Well, one can hope and try. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 14:44:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29044 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:44:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QIW2E11871; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QIW1k29495; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40206.mail.yahoo.com (web40206.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QIVDk29044 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726183108.76298.qmail@web40206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.189.83.254] by web40206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:31:08 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207261639.g6QGd6k27654@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15th century female dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Thanks to those who gave input on the strange stitching/seams on the Magdalene by van der Weyden I posted about earlier... incidentally, I searched the archives for a solid hour to find any previous discussion on that subject before I posted, but didn't come across it under headings with '15th' or 'van der Weyden'. .. I was trying not to revisit an oft-trod topic. As for the hard-to-find Dieric Bouts image, I'd be happy to scan it and send it privately, Robin. I'm hoping that fair-use covers such a one-off sharing of an image... Unless you or others object, I'm willing. Tasha/Marcele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 15:16:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29145 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:16:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QJ33E14443; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJ31k15165; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJ29k14687 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020726190203.EXYH1451.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:02:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3D419CB2.1040901@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Costuming Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Archives Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:02:10 -0700 Status: RO Could someone be so kind as to explain to me how I can look at the archives? Thanks! Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 15:30:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29227 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:30:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QJI1E15618; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJI1k22629; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJHXk22370 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:17:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03601 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:18:19 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 15th century female dress In-Reply-To: <20020726183108.76298.qmail@web40206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:18:19 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Tasha Kelly wrote: > Thanks to those who gave input on the strange stitching/seams on the > Magdalene by van der Weyden I posted about earlier... incidentally, I > searched the archives for a solid hour to find any previous discussion > on that subject before I posted, but didn't come across it under > headings with '15th' or 'van der Weyden'. .. I was trying not to > revisit an oft-trod topic. Not to worry. Eric used to have a full-text search capability on the archives, but now that it's only author and subject line, you kind of have to know where to look. Besides, the population of the list does change, and it's nice to have fresh ideas on favorite topics after a while. (And I bet you had fun reading the archives anyway ;-) I'm a post packrat, and I just located in my own files some posts from one of the discussions we had about this. It was two and a half years ago, so we were due for a re-hash. ;-) Try the subject line "van der Weden sleeves" from January 2000. You'd have never found that on a search because of the misspelling, alas. > As for the hard-to-find Dieric Bouts image, I'd be happy to scan it > and send it privately, Robin. I'm hoping that fair-use covers such a > one-off sharing of an image... Unless you or others object, I'm > willing. I think that's legit -- as long as neither of us is reproducing it for distribution or posting it on a Web page. Scholars shuffle Xeroxes around among each other for consultation all the time, and the courts generally find that acceptable ;-) Please do send it along privately if you can. Thanks. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 15:41:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29265 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:41:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QJT4E16699; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJT1k28234; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJSNk27984 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:28:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03720 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:29:08 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives In-Reply-To: <3D419CB2.1040901@attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:29:08 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Rose Amberwulf wrote: > Could someone be so kind as to explain to me how I can look at the > archives? Thanks! ==================CLIP AND SAVE!================ Eric Praetzel's searchable archive is located at: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives Eric made some changes to the search method a few months ago that speed the search but reduce your ability to search. You can no longer search by keyword in text, just by the poster's name and subject line ... not much use for many of the sorts of questions I ask. But it's a start, and if you know that one of the listmembers is an expert on some topic, you can always search on his/her name and then follow subject lines once you find useful threads. Be aware that when Eric tidied up the files to eliminate the abundance of extra email headers, some of the text was lost from some postings; I have found a few lines missing here and there from my old posts. Eventually I realized that when a text line happened to include a colon after the first word on that line, the software assumed that line was a header and wiped it. If you find some odd breaks in a posting, that may be the cause. Franchesca Havas used to keep older archives available for ftp, but the bookmark I had for her site is not working. Clues are welcome. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 15:48:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29325 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:48:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QJa2E17320; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJa1k01791; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJZIk01389 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03760 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:36:04 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:36:04 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO I wrote: > Franchesca Havas used to keep older archives available for ftp, but > the bookmark I had for her site is not working. Clues are welcome. Here they are -- zipped by year for 1993, 1994, 1995, and 1996: http://www.io.com/~ches/costume/links.html --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 15:56:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29393 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:56:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QJi1E18110; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJi0k05806; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QJhQk05523 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726194325.40766.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:43:25 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: London recommendations was [h-cost] Glass aglets To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:43:25 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > Your very first book purchase in London should be an A-to-Z street map. > You can get a small one for inner London, or a big one to cover the > suburbs. It marks practically every crack in the street, it's so detailed. I wouldn't buy a map personally, but the A-Z book. have one here, lemme check... London A-Z 4.95 pounds, has a most useful lil tube map on the back. Could it be that 10 years ago this was a map and now it's a paperback book? Oh, and if you intend to travel a bit by tube a day then buy a day travel card!!! Ends up cheaper and easier most of the time than single tickets. Nicole - who loves the museums and hates London, sorry. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 16:01:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29464 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:01:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QJn2E18618; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJn1k08226; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QJmIk07857 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03894 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:49:04 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: London recommendations was [h-cost] Glass aglets In-Reply-To: <20020726194325.40766.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:49:04 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > > Your very first book purchase in London should be an A-to-Z street map. > > You can get a small one for inner London, or a big one to cover the > > suburbs. It marks practically every crack in the street, it's so detailed. > > I wouldn't buy a map personally, but the A-Z book. ... Could it be that 10 > years ago this was a map and now it's a paperback book? No, I meant the book! I have several copies of the big one, but for touristing around town I remember using a much smaller pocket version that just covered inner London and had good color-coding that made the map easier to handle. > Oh, and if you intend to travel a bit by tube a day then buy a day travel > card!!! Ends up cheaper and easier most of the time than single tickets. Amen to that. And you don't have to think about how many tickets, how much money, etc. --Robin, who sorely needs another long stretch in London and won't see it for a while _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 16:16:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29548 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:16:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QK44E20276; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QK41k16063; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QK39k15595 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB96A8026A; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:05:42 -0500 Message-ID: <00ab01c234df$82e9b1a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Off Topic: But fun and artsy Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:03:28 -0400 Status: RO Try this website: http://www.zefrank.com/byokal/kal.html Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 16:39:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29652 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:39:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QKR2E22118; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QKR1k27578; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QKQMk27237 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:26:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p201.directcon.net [209.233.107.201]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6QKQFU7015506; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:26:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020726133133.00bace10@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 15th century female dress In-Reply-To: References: <20020726183108.76298.qmail@web40206.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:31:33 -0700 Status: RO > >Not to worry. Eric used to have a full-text search capability on the >archives, but now that it's only author and subject line, you kind of have >to know where to look. Does anyone else hate this as much as I do? I've spent countless hours trying to find the right title to search under. Eric said he did this because it made the searhing faster, which I suppose it does if you know the exact title, but I for one found it far more convenient to be able to search by content. If enough people agree with me, maybe we can find a solution to the problem. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 16:47:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29733 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:47:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QKZ2E22817; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QKZ1k01958; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout5-int.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QKYIk01520 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:34:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ANGELA (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout5-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6QKYH208280 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:34:17 -0400 Message-ID: <009d01c234e4$1181c3e0$9865fea9@ANGELA> From: "Angela F. Lazear- Cabbage Rose" To: References: <20020726183108.76298.qmail@web40206.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20020726133133.00bace10@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Searching the archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:36:06 -0700 Status: RO I think that the only real way to find things reliably is to broaden the search capabilities to include context if necessary. It is so often the case that subject lines are NOT changed to reflect changes in topic and valuable information is thus lost forever. Is it possible to have a choice? A field for a "fast" search by author or title and a "slower" search through all the messages themselves for text references? That way the user could decide how long they wanted to spend locating any given set of messages. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: ; Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 15th century female dress > > > > >Not to worry. Eric used to have a full-text search capability on the > >archives, but now that it's only author and subject line, you kind of have > >to know where to look. > > Does anyone else hate this as much as I do? I've spent countless hours > trying to find the right title to search under. Eric said he did this > because it made the searhing faster, which I suppose it does if you know > the exact title, but I for one found it far more convenient to be able to > search by content. > > If enough people agree with me, maybe we can find a solution to the problem. > > Margo > "One Tough Costumer" > > > See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 17:17:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29920 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:17:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QL43E25295; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QL40k16819; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QL3ak16606 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:03:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04407 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:04:22 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020726133133.00bace10@pop.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Archives again (was: 15th century female dress) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:04:22 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Margo Anderson wrote: > >Not to worry. Eric used to have a full-text search capability on the > >archives, but now that it's only author and subject line, you kind of have > >to know where to look. > > Does anyone else hate this as much as I do? I've spent countless hours > trying to find the right title to search under. Yes. The full-text search was invaluable, particularly if I want to find references to specific books, garments, finds, authors, etc. I'm also distressed over the occasional loss and garbling of text that happened during Eric's (otherwise useful!) cleanup process. > If enough people agree with me, maybe we can find a solution to the > problem. The best solution would be to get all the archives on a single site with proper search capabilities, like other lists' archives. Is there anyone in the h-cost population with the web space for this? And anyone with the expertise to set up a standard full-text search capability? And finally, does anyone have the original archives of posts after 1996? (Ches has the earlier ones.) I would guess Eric would share, but I don't know if he has the original versions of the posts before he cleaned them up. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 17:22:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29933 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:22:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QLA2E25767; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QLA1k19913; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QL9Fk19531 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:09:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip221.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.221] (may be forged)) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6QL9Aq13395 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:09:10 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: V&As 1540s Boys Shirt, was, re: Ribbon ties, Message-ID: <3D4159F8.7117.146FBE59@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020726183150.40176.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3D412DC8.976.13C31BFB@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:17:28 -0700 Status: RO > --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > That is so true. However, the files (when I scan the slide to become > > a jpg) end up too big to send. I don't have a website (or time to > > build one if I had access to one, at least not for the next 3 > > weeks.) > > Would a quick sketch perhaps do? Not now, not when you're busy, I know > the problem, just eventually perhaps. I have a sketch somewhere in my other computer (the one I use for writing which has all my fancy Adobe programs in it.) > I don't need photos, thanks, but I took LOTS of photos in the V&A > myself, I have quite a few of the shirt and yes, I have them all on a > web site, in fact on several web sites. I do not agree with not > showing photos of the extant garments and I do have permission to show > even the V&A's own photos (postcards) anyway. I asked nicely, and lo > and behold, I got the permission. A sketch would be super, it's just > the contsruction of the rectangled sleeve I'm interested in but i do > understand when you don't have time! What's the book BTW, I might even > have it. :-) Either Pascoe or Gostelow. (I have others, but I know it's not in them.) > The chemise is on display, no? Which one do you mean now? I am getting > confused *L* Yes, and I talked to Susan North when I last met her, she > said to drop a line and take a look at whatever I want to (their great > coat is first on the list!!!) but shooo, I didn't have time yet, have > to do it in winter though I'll see her next on the late night view on > 7th August. While I'd be more interested in the 1540's one, I was thinking of the 17th C chemise. > The embroidered one other one? No problem, that one is displayed and > so well that one can see just about everything, I have about 5 > drawings of it (not the emb roideries because shifts were not > embroidered anymore in the period I re-enact so I didn't bother) but > my drawings are awful ;-) How odd. The Italian 17th C one is supposedly embroidered. at least along the seams. That's the one I was thinking of. I wish it had been on display when I was there. > The flash is severely, severly frowned upon, I never ever photograph > ANY textiles whatsoever with flash. *S* but yes, they don't spank your > hide when you do use it. Actually, they told me that the flash is better than having "adequate lighting" for looking at it. It is such short duration (fraction of a second) that it does less damage than 5 minutes of regular lighting. They specifically *told* me to use the flash when I wrote to them. (In fact, at the MOL I wasn't using a flash but they came up and told me to *start* using one to get better pictures.) And the glass helps to cut down on the UV exposure (which may be why they don't let you use it during the appointments: no glass between your camera and the item.) > > during your appointment you're not allowed to use any sort of > > photography (unless you are Janet Arnold, who I suspect had to pay > > them for the privilege.) And no tripods. > > You are allowed, if it is for the proper kind of research, but the > permission is dificult to get, I am willing to try it though, because > I do need illustrations of some actual garments in my PhD. Well, one > can hope and try. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 17:39:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30034 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:39:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QLR2E27447; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QLR1k28690; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6QLQsk28628 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:26:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020726212654.59365.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:26:54 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: V&As 1540s Boys Shirt, was, re: Ribbon ties, To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D4159F8.7117.146FBE59@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:26:54 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Either Pascoe or Gostelow. (I have others, but I know it's not in > them.) Thanks, I'll check my incentory. > How odd. The Italian 17th C one is supposedly embroidered. at > least along the seams. That's the one I was thinking of. I wish it > had been on display when I was there. believe me, I am really confused now, with all the chemise, or not chemise, this is the question. I'll have a good look again in August! > Actually, they told me that the flash is better than having "adequate > lighting" for looking at it. It is such short duration (fraction of a > second) that it does less damage than 5 minutes of regular > lighting. They specifically *told* me to use the flash when I wrote to > them. (In fact, at the MOL I wasn't using a flash but they came up > and told me to *start* using one to get better pictures.) And the > glass helps to cut down on the UV exposure (which may be why > they don't let you use it during the appointments: no glass between > your camera and the item.) HOW STRANGE! I was told exactly the opposite, not to use a flash by any means. This is why I use either extra light sensitive film or digital cameras. Weird! Maybe different people have different opinions on that? Anyway, the pix with light sensitive film turn out very well, and so do the digicam ones, admittedly it was my former company's one, over 700 quid, and one I miss dearly, such a work of state of the art technology *SIGH* Nevermind. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 17:39:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30040 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:39:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QLRLE27501; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QLRIk28887; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QLQ3k28120 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17YCb4-0004Xn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:26:02 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets Organization: PII Message-ID: <000601c234e9$adeb52a0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:16:16 -0700 Status: RO **beads make great decorative aglets. If you want small **points, use brass bugle beads (example at *http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/dublet/dubdetail1.jpg) to tip **your laces. This is a great idea-I was contemplating Greenberg and Hammers lacing tipper tool-$250 - yikes! I was figuring I could make up 250 laces with tips and sell them for a $ apiece, but this idea is much more appealing! Saragrace (who hates repetitive tasks of any kind) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 18:00:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30129 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:00:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QLmFE29270; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QLmAk09257; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:48:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QLl6k08744 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZV00H0VLUHWE@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:47:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets In-reply-to: <00a801c234c2$a230c480$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020726125803.00c583b0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:59:01 -0700 Status: RO >I tried using cotton crochet string as ties >on the latest shirt I made, and it looked really good, just like the >portraits, but I ended up having to cut them off to get my husband out of it >because they knotted up so badly. I braid my cotton crochet string into ties, and it doesn't do that. And they look all nice and handmade that way. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 18:23:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30509 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:23:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6QMA2E01329; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:10:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QMA0k19660; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx12.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6QM9bk19451 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:09:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx12.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 52248960 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:08:49 -0400 Message-ID: <00e901c234f0$ff0af9e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:08:38 -0500 Status: RO . If you want small points, use brass bugle beads > (example at http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/dublet/dubdetail1.jpg) to tip > your laces. > Drea > Drea, how did you attach those beads? Is the fabric from the laces somehow threaded into them? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 20:35:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30992 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:35:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R0N1E09744; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R0N0k07876; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R0MVk07746 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:22:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip153.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.153]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g6R0MTV3000072 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200207270022.g6R0MTV3000072@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] Polished cotton source? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:22:24 -0400 Status: RO Recently was looking for polished cotton (100% cotton, not poly-cotton blends) -- it appears to be very hard to find. Hancock and Walmart near me have the blends, but I really don't like those. Anyone know of a source? -- Mara Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 21:28:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31163 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:28:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R0JeE09561; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R0A1k04262; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R09ik04160 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:09:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05525 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:10:31 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:10:31 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO This post appeared on the Living History (UK) costume forum . I didn't ask permission to repost, but given the time-sensitive aspect and the public nature of the plea, I don't think the author will mind. I do not know the poster's name, other than "Dawn." The address she gives is the Nottingham local paper; I wish I knew who might have more authority. I don't know what the fax number leads to. In any case, though, words from around the world about the importance of collections like this might do some good. (And how many costumers who visit England even know about this museum? Perhaps their numbers would be higher with a little publicity.) -----Forwarded message----- [Subject] URGENT - Help keep museum open [Posted by] Dawn [Date] Fri Jul 26 2002 12:59:49 We received today a piece of extraordinarily bad news from Jeremy W. Farrell, M.A., A.M.A., Keeper of Costumes and Textiles of the City of Nottingham Museum of Costumes and Textiles. >From previous listings, many of you may have picked up on the on-going trend in the United Kingdom to close down significant costume collections and to put their holdings into stores. This has already happened at Wygston (Leicester), Northampton, Cheltenham, and is rumored to be in the works at Warwick as well. All of these collections were unique in their own right, were staffed by genial, cooperative and highly motivated keepers and curators. The keeper at the Snowshill Collection has had her time cut back, and as some of you may know, her time prior to the cutback was two days a week. This of coure, makes the Snowshill Collection increasingly difficult to access. In any event, there is a proposal on the table to shut down the Nottingham Museum of Costume and Textiles, and the Georgian and Stuart buildings in which the collection is housed would be sold so as to support heritage sites. The collection would be boxed and would go into storage somewhere outside of the city. From our experience "outside of the city" frequently means all but inaccessible unless one has a car and an ordinance survey map. The collection at Leicester was put into an industrial estate at Barrow-on-Soar. (See if you can find that sucker on a map. We had to walk five bloody miles from the train station..in the rain.) The Nottingham Collection comprises 22,000 items dating from the 17th century, and is famous worldwide for its lace collection. Like many of the museums noted above, this collection is located in the center of the city, and therefore is readily accessible to all those arriving by bus or rail. One of its features is that it has a significant number of period rooms that are complete in every respect, in terms of artifacts, properly posed, attired and accoutered figures, and are totally breath-taking. This is unlike the V and A that has a costume gallery and a furniture gallery, but has never seen fit to blend the two together to tell the complete story of an epoch. One of our very real concerns is that costumers will be invariably funnelled into London and Bath, where the institutions in those locales have never been able to deliver the degree of accessiblity and personal contact that the smaller collections have been able to deliver. In any event, we have been asked by our friends and colleagues in Britain, to attempt, as a last ditch effort to make an impact on the powers that be, to reconsider this move. Many of you, regretably, will never have the opportunity to use the collections in Britain, as a result of time, family and fiscal constraints. Nonetheless, if you are on this list, you, I'm sure, must sense a feeling of loss every time something like this happens. If you have a fax, you can send your heartfelt thoughts and chagrin to 0115 964 4032. If you wish to email, the address is letterspoems@nottinghameveningpost.co.uk [Please include your home address.] There is little point in providing a mailing address, since the deadline for the public consultation process ends on the 31st of July, 2002. As the Board of the Museum points out, there is a national trend to close costume and textile museums, and to put their collections into store. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 21:57:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31241 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:57:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R1j2E13521; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R1j1k29172; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R1i3k28897 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.14e.11770a76 (657) for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:43:53 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <14e.11770a76.2a7354d9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Polished cotton source? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14e.11770a76.2a7354d9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10034 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:43:53 EDT Status: RO --part1_14e.11770a76.2a7354d9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/26/02 8:24:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@radix.net writes: > Anyone know of a source? > Have you checked the home decorating sections of the above? I believe that Hancock used to carry a 100% cotton there, but haven't looked for a while. Also, any luck in the quilting section--I think there used to be a 90" wide 100% cotton designed for quilt backs at one time. Ann Wass --part1_14e.11770a76.2a7354d9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/26/02 8:24:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@radix.net writes:


Anyone know of a source?


Have you checked the home decorating sections of the above?  I believe that Hancock used to carry a 100% cotton there, but haven't looked for a while.  Also, any luck in the quilting section--I think there used to be a 90" wide 100% cotton designed for quilt backs at one time.
Ann Wass --part1_14e.11770a76.2a7354d9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 22:00:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31275 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:00:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R1m1E13663; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R1m0k29748; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R1lDk29603 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:47:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020727014708.ZKEE24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:47:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3D41FBA3.9030607@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:47:15 -0700 Status: RO Thank you, Robin. I had the pleasure of being able to read anything that had to do with the 14th century. Roscelin Robin Netherton wrote: >On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, >==================CLIP AND SAVE!================ > >Eric Praetzel's searchable archive is located at: > http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives > >Eric made some changes to the search method a few months ago that speed >the search but reduce your ability to search. You can no longer search by >keyword in text, just by the poster's name and subject line ... not much >use for many of the sorts of questions I ask. But it's a start, and if you >know that one of the listmembers is an expert on some topic, you can >always search on his/her name and then follow subject lines once you find >useful threads. > >Be aware that when Eric tidied up the files to eliminate the abundance of >extra email headers, some of the text was lost from some postings; I have >found a few lines missing here and there from my old posts. Eventually I >realized that when a text line happened to include a colon after the first >word on that line, the software assumed that line was a header and wiped >it. If you find some odd breaks in a posting, that may be the cause. > >Franchesca Havas used to keep older archives available for ftp, but >the bookmark I had for her site is not working. Clues are welcome. > >--Robin > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 22:01:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31284 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:01:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R1n1E13706; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R1n0k00117; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R1mVk29880 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020727014826.RVNU14958.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:48:26 +0000 Message-ID: <3D41FBF1.4090204@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000702020700020604030003" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:48:33 -0700 Status: RO --------------000702020700020604030003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you once again. I haven't had the chance to go through that site yet, but plan to tomorrow. Roscelin Robin Netherton wrote: >I wrote: >Franchesca Havas used to keep older archives available for ftp, but >the bookmark I had for her site is not working. Clues are welcome. > > >Here they are -- zipped by year for 1993, 1994, 1995, and 1996: > http://www.io.com/~ches/costume/links.html > >--Robin > > --------------000702020700020604030003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you once again.  I haven't had the chance to go through that site yet, but plan to tomorrow.

Roscelin

Robin Netherton wrote:
I wrote:
Franchesca Havas used to keep older archives available for ftp, but
the bookmark I had for her site is not working. Clues are welcome.

Here they are -- zipped by year for 1993, 1994, 1995, and 1996:
	http://www.io.com/~ches/costume/links.html

--Robin



--------------000702020700020604030003-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 22:11:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31353 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:11:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R1x2E14135; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R1x1k02792; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R1wWk02630 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from genteelarts (user156.net101.pa.sprint-hsd.net [65.164.17.156]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00887 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:58:26 -0500 From: "cschmitt@genteelarts" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Polished cotton source? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 In-Reply-To: <200207270022.g6R0MTV3000072@saltmine.radix.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:58:10 -0400 Status: RO Try looking here. They carry 100% polished cotton in five or six colors, 45" wide. No website or on-line ordering, but they will send swatches and do mail order. Needle and Thread 2215 Fairfield Road Gettysburg, PA 17325 717-334-4011 needleandthread@hotmail.com Recently was looking for polished cotton (100% cotton, not poly-cotton blends)...Anyone know of a source? -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jul 26 22:59:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31568 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:59:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R2b1E15690; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R2b0k11522; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R2a6k11318 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g6R2a5B15953 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:36:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] growing adults Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:36:05 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO I'm having problems, and since they're costuming difficulties, naturally I come here first. To begin, a wee bit of context: I'm talking about costming for a youngish (nearly 30) male, in the SCA (so a wide variety of times and places are acceptable), with an Italian Ren persona (though he's decided the really short cote hardies are too "young") He has decided that he is tired of being a 98-pound weakling and has started a food-and-weight regime which has resulted in his growing out of all of his nice garb! This isn't a total tragedy, because his tastes were changing anyway, but I am in a dilemma: I don't dare put time, effort and nice fabric into making really spiff new garb because he's just going to keep growing in awkward places like the bicep, back and neck. The styles that are easy to make (ie: layered t-tunic) tend not to look well on his frame (extremely triangular, becoming more so), and certainly don't show it off. Also, I'm not very enthusiastic about embroidery, store-bought ribbon trim or band weaving, and it's difficult to make t-tunics look spiff without at least one of the above. Yes, I could hire embroidery or weaving out to someone who *does* do it, but that would involve LETTING SOMEBODY ELSE DO IT, which is nearly intolerable. Now for the questions: Does anybody have experience in making fitted (or somewhat fitted) clothing for people with the expectation that they will change shape? I'm thinking in terms of the extra-large seam allowences and hidden tucks people use for growing children, but I'm not sure how these techniques will work with things like a two-part sleeve. Does anybody have ideas of what styles will look good on his frame? He's been looking at Elizabethan lately, though he remains unconvinced. Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Anybody? Any help at all will be greatly appreciated! Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 01:02:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32501 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:02:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R4o2E20568; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R4o0k13557; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R4nTk13412 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:49:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a219.in-tch.com [66.62.107.19]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6R4ZT919842 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D4227B0.8CA27B81@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] growing adults References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:55:12 -0600 Status: RO Cotehardies....those lovely fitted ones....My mind keeps veering towards a less-than-extreme Burgundian--definitely a triangular shape there. Plus, they're not too difficult to make, are more fabric-dependent for glitz factor than trim or embroidery dependent. And depending on the time/place for the particular style of cotehardie (if the Burgundian doesn't interest him), they do range in length--some more modest, and some, uhm, less so.... Elizabethans (or Tudor) are a bit more labor intensive, so I'd probably tend to want to wait a while until his size/shape/tastes stabilize.... --Sue, always a fan of a good looking guy in tights.... Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > I'm having problems, and since they're costuming difficulties, naturally > I come here first. To begin, a wee bit of context: I'm talking about > costming for a youngish (nearly 30) male, in the SCA (so a wide variety of > times and places are acceptable), with an Italian Ren persona (though he's > decided the really short cote hardies are too "young") > > He has decided that he is tired of being a 98-pound weakling and > has started a food-and-weight regime which has resulted in his growing out > of all of his nice garb! > > This isn't a total tragedy, because his tastes were changing anyway, but I > am in a dilemma: > > I don't dare put time, effort and nice fabric into making really spiff new > garb because he's just going to keep growing in awkward places like the > bicep, back and neck. > > The styles that are easy to make (ie: layered t-tunic) tend not to look > well on his frame (extremely triangular, becoming more so), and certainly > don't show it off. Also, I'm not very enthusiastic about embroidery, > store-bought ribbon trim or band weaving, and it's difficult to make > t-tunics look spiff without at least one of the above. Yes, I could hire > embroidery or weaving out to someone who *does* do it, but that would > involve LETTING SOMEBODY ELSE DO IT, which is nearly intolerable. > > Now for the questions: > Does anybody have experience in making fitted (or somewhat fitted) > clothing for people with the expectation that they will change shape? > I'm thinking in terms of the extra-large seam allowences and hidden tucks > people use for growing children, but I'm not sure how these techniques > will work with things like a two-part sleeve. > > Does anybody have ideas of what styles will look good on his frame? He's > been looking at Elizabethan lately, though he remains unconvinced. > Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Anybody? > > Any help at all will be greatly appreciated! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 01:21:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32581 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:21:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R592E21240; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R591k17721; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R58Mk17576 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:08:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.105.194db83f (16335) for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:08:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <105.194db83f.2a7384bf@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Polished cotton source? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_105.194db83f.2a7384bf_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10513 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:08:15 EDT Status: RO --part1_105.194db83f.2a7384bf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mara -- Try G Street's decorating store in Rockville -- next door tot he main store. Or try Calico Corners on Rockville Pike. They might have some. Kathleen --part1_105.194db83f.2a7384bf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mara -- Try G Street's decorating store in Rockville -- next door tot he main store. Or try Calico Corners on Rockville Pike. They might have some.

Kathleen --part1_105.194db83f.2a7384bf_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 01:58:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32657 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:58:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R5k1E22341; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R5k0k25616; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R5jgk25548 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-0ccsqh2.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.106.34] helo=earthlink.net) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17YKOb-0003HL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:45:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3D42331F.4F27EAB9@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] SCA KWCS Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:43:59 -0500 Status: RO Can someone please email me privately about KWCS? I'm looking for information the bid procedure (well, the bid procedure in general for various Known World level events). Thanks, --Charlene perronnelle@earthlink.net -- An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. --Anatole France _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 04:52:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11379 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 04:52:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R8RUE03966; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 02:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R8R1k05097; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 02:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R8QDk04737 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 02:26:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17YMts-000Kqf-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:26:11 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Subject: [h-cost] JEster costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 08:59:48 +0100 Status: RO OK, sorry for all the problems - pictures of the Jester costume are now, hopefully, accessible to all at www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/Costume I'd be interested in any views on whether it's male/female, and date. It was described to me as being among "Great-Gran's things" - she was born in 1877, and had only one male child - not sure of my grandfather's birth date, but my father was born in 1929, so we can guess roughly. My father didn't say anything about remembering it, so we can assume it wasn't worn later than 1939. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 05:19:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11465 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 05:19:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6R972E05989; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 03:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6R970k13091; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 03:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6R96ck13022 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 03:06:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020727090638.32050.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:06:38 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:06:38 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > This post appeared on the Living History (UK) costume forum > . I didn't ask > permission to repost, but given the time-sensitive aspect and the public > nature of the plea, I don't think the author will mind. They certainly won't mind because this information has been going round on pretty much all of the costume/re-enactment related lists I am on. I already wrote my email to complain and raise awareness. I do not know the > poster's name, other than "Dawn." It is Dawn Woods from Ages of Elegance costumes. The address she gives is the Nottingham > local paper; I wish I knew who might have more authority. I don't know > what the fax number leads to. In any case, though, words from around the > world about the importance of collections like this might do some good. > (And how many costumers who visit England even know about this museum? > Perhaps their numbers would be higher with a little publicity.) I am guilty too, have never been there, though I knew about the collection. Will organise a trip to the museum hopefully soon, but it has to be after the re-enactment season there is no way I can drive all the way up to Nottingham before that. Better make sure we photograph and draw the collection before it is inaccessible! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 07:00:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12016 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 07:00:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RAm1E08537; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 04:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RAm0k02458; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 04:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RAlVk02382 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 04:47:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=99main.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17YP6g-0002Zw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 03:47:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3D4241B8.9020804@99main.com> From: Marilyn Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] growing adults References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:46:16 +0000 Status: RO Tudor would look good on him, as well as elizabethan. I am thinking that if you make the clothing with detatchable sleeves, then you only have to rework the sleeves. The chemises are fairly forgiving and can be made overlarge to be grown into. The same goes for italian renn for men. How long do you think it will take for him to finish bulking up? You may just have to bite the bullet and make him interin garb with store bought trim [although IIRC Pillaged Village has some good trims that aren't too modern looking.] margali the quote starts here: > Does anybody have ideas of what styles will look good on his frame? He's > been looking at Elizabethan lately, though he remains unconvinced. > Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Anybody? > > Any help at all will be greatly appreciated! > > Emma > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 11:53:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12979 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:53:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RFf6E18510; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RFf0k01251; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RFePk01103 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m110.in-tch.com [216.166.191.110]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6RFQQ912406 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:26:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D42C045.74D107DD@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons- alternative ties.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:46:13 -0600 Status: RO *snort* Isn't electronic communication *fun* some times??? --Sue, not offended or worried or anything, just glad it's properly attributed (it's really hard to keep track of the he-saids, she-saids in a thread like this!) Betsy Marshall wrote: > > umm- that's sorta my fault- I left in the bit I was responding to, > and put my remarks at the bottom, which seem to have disappeared... > sigh. Betsy > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Sue Clemenger > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:44 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons- alternative ties.. > > Ummm...no, I didn't say that.... I'm not in a guild with a costume > director at all....I'm in the SCA, plus I'm a perennial gadfly in the > non-SCA period classes on Penny's website (I love historical clothing, > but don't have any access to groups other than the SCA). > --Sue, catching up on emails.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 11:55:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12993 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:55:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RFh1E18660; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RFh0k01714; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RFgGk01527 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:42:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m110.in-tch.com [216.166.191.110]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6RFSH912757 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D42C0B4.AF9EB18@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:48:04 -0600 Status: RO Wanda, do you have more information available about the Macejiwski bible? or books that have German statuary in them? My sources are all pretty solidly English-focused, and I can *always* expand my library! --Sue Wanda Pease wrote: > > Lots of buttons depicted in German Statuary of this time period. Also check > out the Macejiwski (?) Bible (alt title: Old Testament Miniatures). It was > done a bit earlier, but shows many of the same clothing styles. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 12:05:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13074 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:05:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RFr1E19237; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RFr0k04236; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RFq2k04021 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip192.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.192]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6RFpwq04792 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 08:51:58 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing Message-ID: <3D4260FF.22268.18735995@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 08:59:43 -0700 Status: RO > (And how many costumers who > visit England even know about this museum? Perhaps their numbers would > be higher with a little publicity.) It's a great museum. I made a special trip to Nottingham just to go there because (in addition to many dresses which are well past the time I'm interested in) they have a wonderful collection of handmade lace (better than the Lace Museum in the same town!) In spite of saying that their collection starts at the 17th century, there were some lace pieces from the 16th Century (and a couple of embroidered things as well.) I just wish that they had allowed photography when I was there! I had planned to go back some time for an appointment. > From our experience > "outside of the city" frequently means all but inaccessible unless one > has a car and an ordinance survey map. The collection at Leicester > was put into an industrial estate at Barrow-on-Soar. (See if you can > find that sucker on a map. We had to walk five bloody miles from the > train station..in the rain.) It's a pity that they don't "store" it with some of the museums which are continuing (such as the V&A). Perhaps there just isn't room. But then, this may explain it too: > One of our very real concerns is that costumers will be invariably > funnelled into London and Bath, where the institutions in those > locales have never been able to deliver the degree of accessiblity and > personal contact that the smaller collections have been able to > deliver. June M. Russell, MD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 12:07:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13086 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:07:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RFt2E19326; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RFt1k04758; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RFs1k04484 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m110.in-tch.com [216.166.191.110]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6RFe2914912 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:59:48 -0600 Status: RO Some further bits..... On the gowns where it's obvious that there are buttons running at least part way down the front of the garment, do you think they run all the way down, or just partly? Also, I'm guessing that the buttons might be made like those cloth ones in the MoL book, maybe? Teddy, didn't you make a bunch of these a while ago? How hard were they to do? I've been trying to think of possible cuts to account for the underarm fullness on these garments....About the closest (visually) that I've been able to find in my own library (meager for the mid-middle ages), is the article Heather did on the St. Louis shirt in _Tournaments Illuminated_ relatively recently. The sleeves do seem to have a bit of the same full above/narrow below look that the gowns in the Codex do.... I've seen one version of this style (in Hunnisett's pre-1500 book), and she achieves it using this perfectly enormous gusset under the arm, which I may try in cheap fabric, just for the heck of it, but I'd rather go for a more periodly-plausible cut than one that's theatrically-plausible, if you get the distinction I'm so clumsily trying to make! --Sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > You have to do some hunting, but it's possible to find buttons around 1300 > and before, typically on collar and/or wrist. The Manesse Codex is early > 14th century, so certainly not the earliest use. I'm not sure what the > archaeological record says, but there might be something about dating in > "Dress Accessories," which has lots of buttons. > > You can see another of those standing collar thingies, but without the > buttons, on image 136. > Buttons were one option, but lacing/sewing seems to have been another. At > least one 13th-century written source (The Romance of the Rose) describes > someone sewing up his sleeves as part of his morning routine. I presume > this means tightening up the forearm area. The Codex shows a lot of those > sleeves -- loose in the shoulders and upper arms (no true set-in sleeves > or close fitting yet), but pulled tight on the forearms, often with some > of the upper-arm fabric hanging loosely over the top of the fitted area. > I've found this a very comfortable and practical cut -- the closeness in > the forearm keeps your sleeves out of the way, but the looseness over the > elbow allows freedom of movement. When you bend your arm, it takes up the > slack. You'll see that in some of the Codex images -- drape over the elbow > in some positions, and none in others. > > ========================================================== > Robin Netherton // Editor at Large > robin@nightowl.net > voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 > Life is just a bowl of queries. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 12:24:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13125 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:24:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RGC2E20148; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RGC1k08577; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RGBlk08505 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:11:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m110.in-tch.com [216.166.191.110]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6RFvm918160 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:57:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D42C79E.464C8D34@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Plait braiding solution for trim References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:17:34 -0600 Status: RO Try this link: http://www.vertetsable.com/simpletrims.htm Laurellen shows you how to do all kinds of stuff, including multi-strand braiding....She's a great lady, and very practical (about tools and techniques and such), as well as very knowledgable. Also, for your documenting, you could probably do pretty well by using the extant fingerloop braids, and the early bobbin laces, which mostly used a plaited technique. --Sue, catching up on old emails.... Colleen McDonald wrote: > > < and looking in a bobbin lace book?>> > > Possibly, and I know someone who knows how. I requested the book recommendations because I will need to document all of this within an inch of its life for a competition. > > Best regards, > > Colleen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 12:25:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13132 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:25:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RGD3E20195; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RGD1k08784; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RGCHk08636 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:12:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip192.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.192]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6RGCEo12416 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:12:14 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing Message-ID: <3D4265BC.30418.1885DAED@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3D4260FF.22268.18735995@localhost> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:19:56 -0700 Status: RO I tried to send a message to the email address given in the article, but it came back saying there was no such address. Any clues, Robin? June M. Russell, MD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 12:28:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13142 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:28:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RGG1E20336; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RGG1k09440; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RGF5k09226 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net ([10.116.0.123]) by scanmail3.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:13:01 -0700 Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123] by scanmail3.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A68D4EFC00F0; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:13:01 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:13:01 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] JEster costume Message-ID: <000001c23588$c9f02c60$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:15:13 -0500 Status: RO Jean-- I have just finished reading a master's thesis on 4 fancy dress balls held in Canada in 1874, 1895, 1896 and 1897. The author goes into great detail on the costumes worn. Some were made by dressmakers or tailors, others by costume rental companies in New York, Toronto and Montreal. NONE of the women wore pants of any sort, certainly not short ones. I think your jester costume dates from the 20th century. You might find it illustrated in a pattern book or fancy dress costume book from 1900-1930. This source was used by the author: Fancy Dress Described, or What to Wear at Fancy Balls, by Ardern Holt, published in London by Debenham and Freebody, 1896. Also look for "The Art of Choosing Fancy Dress" in Everywoman's Encyclopedia from 1906. In England, look for old Weldon's pattern catalogs. Also, Sophia Murphy has written a book, The Duchess of Devonshire's Ball, published by Sidgwick and Jackson in 1984. Let me know if you find a good date for it. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jean Waddie Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 3:00 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] JEster costume OK, sorry for all the problems - pictures of the Jester costume are now, hopefully, accessible to all at www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/Costume I'd be interested in any views on whether it's male/female, and date. It was described to me as being among "Great-Gran's things" - she was born in 1877, and had only one male child - not sure of my grandfather's birth date, but my father was born in 1929, so we can guess roughly. My father didn't say anything about remembering it, so we can assume it wasn't worn later than 1939. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 12:38:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13182 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:38:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RGQ1E20782; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RGQ0k11787; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RGP7k11596 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:25:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from db-books ([62.252.100.51]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020727162505.LCQR9450.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@db-books> for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 17:25:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c234c0$d2280b00$3364fc3e@db-books> From: "david.batterham" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Subject: [h-cost] Unsubscribing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:22:52 +0100 Status: RO Can any member kindly help me to unsubcribe to h-costume, All the e-mail addresses referred to on the home page return themessages sent to the, Also I am not listed in the Yahoo Groups list of groups as being amember in the first place and yet messages pour in ; trying to click No E-Mails makes no difference. Ifeel sure a few simple click will do the trick but what are they and where. Can you help David _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 13:27:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13324 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:27:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RHF3E23031; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RHF2k23539; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10302.mail.yahoo.com (web10302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.80]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6RHEJk23331 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020727171419.8279.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.1.45.14] by web10302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:14:19 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207261639.g6QGdAk27685@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-516040559-1027790059=:8133" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1112 - 12 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:14:19 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-516040559-1027790059=:8133 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Debbie Lough wrote: >> In London there's Klein's haberdashery shop, and Foyles book shop. >The clerks at Foyle's have an international reputation for being aloof and >unhelpful, though I'll grant they may have changed in the last decade (but >I doubt it). Last time I was there, the books were filed by publisher. >Don't waste your time there unless you know exactly what you want. Robin's experience of Foyle's is clearly out of date. I've been going to Foyles every couple of months for around the last seven years, and the books have always been filed by subject. The costume and craft books are on the first floor (hundreds of them), and the military history books (incl. uniforms) are on the second floor. I managed to find several out of prints at sums drastically cheaper than anywhere else in Britain (let alone London), simply by browsing through the shelves. The staff used to be unhelpful, because they were on commission, so everything had to be bought through the departments staff (ie, if you wanted things from different sections you had to buy them seperately, and a staff member not from a particular section wouldn't know what you were talking about). That has now changed completely - no more commission, and new management might have helped. That said, many of the other book shops on Charing Cross Road are also fantastic. Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-516040559-1027790059=:8133 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit




On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Debbie Lough wrote:

>> In London there's Klein's haberdashery shop, and Foyles book shop.

>The clerks at Foyle's have an international reputation for being aloof and
>unhelpful, though I'll grant they may have changed in the last decade (but
>I doubt it). Last time I was there, the books were filed by publisher.
>Don't waste your time there unless you know exactly what you want.

Robin's experience of Foyle's is clearly out of date.

I've been going to Foyles every couple of months for around the last seven years, and the books have always been filed by subject.  The costume and craft books are on the first floor (hundreds of them), and the military history books (incl. uniforms) are on the second floor.  I managed to find several out of prints at sums drastically cheaper than anywhere else in Britain (let alone London), simply by browsing through the shelves.

The staff used to be unhelpful, because they were on commission, so everything had to be bought through the departments staff (ie, if you wanted things from different sections you had to buy them seperately, and a staff member not from a particular section wouldn't know what you were talking about).  That has now changed completely - no more commission, and new management might have helped.

That said, many of the other book shops on Charing Cross Road are also fantastic.

Debbie.


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-516040559-1027790059=:8133-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 14:21:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14072 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:21:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RI97E25850; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RI90k08311; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10301.mail.yahoo.com (web10301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.79]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6RI8jk08276 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:08:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020727180844.15843.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.1.45.14] by web10301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:08:44 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207251804.g6PI4MF19321@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1175351845-1027793324=:15837" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Nottingham Costume Museum - contacting them Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:08:44 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1175351845-1027793324=:15837 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had the same problem as some others when I tried to e-mail the letters page of the Nottingham Evening Post. It got bounced. However, you can write to them by going to the newspapers wesite at www.thisisnottingham.co.uk Then mouse over 'news' in the menu at the top of the screen, and then 'letters'. Click on 'click here', and it brings up a pro-forma type submissions page. I've already written to them about the potential closure, and it seemed to work fine. Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1175351845-1027793324=:15837 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 I had the same problem as some others when I tried to e-mail the letters page of the Nottingham Evening Post.  It got bounced.

However, you can write to them by going to the newspapers wesite at www.thisisnottingham.co.uk

Then mouse over 'news' in the menu at the top of the screen, and then 'letters'.  Click on 'click here', and it brings up a pro-forma type submissions page.

I've already written to them about the potential closure, and it seemed to work fine.

Debbie.

 


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1175351845-1027793324=:15837-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 15:03:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14271 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:03:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RIp1E28075; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RIp0k19203; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout5-int.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RIoOk19051 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivy7105eycv5lb (adsl-65-71-92-12.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net [65.71.92.12]) by pimout5-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6RIoN2367088; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:50:23 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c2359e$8bb009f0$0401a8c0@ivy7105eycv5lb> From: "BH Macchia" To: Cc: References: <000f01c234c0$d2280b00$3364fc3e@db-books> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Unsubscribing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:50:57 -0500 Status: RO I'm with you David. I can not, for the love of me, drop this group. I have tried everything they said. It comes back invalid. I am going on vacation and need to check into my e-mails for business. I am so inundated by these messages that it, like swimming thru thick muck to the shore. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david.batterham" <> To: Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:22 AM Subject: [h-cost] Unsubscribing > Can any member kindly help me to unsubcribe to h-costume, All the e-mail > addresses referred to on the home page return themessages sent to the, Also > I am not listed in the Yahoo Groups list of groups as being amember in the > first place and yet messages pour in ; trying to click No E-Mails makes no > difference. > Ifeel sure a few simple click will do the trick but what are they and > where. Can you help David > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 15:08:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14287 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:08:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RIu1E28265; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RIu0k20347; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RItJk20176 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (morr0688.gti.net [208.216.122.88]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 4E28935B34 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D42EC98.1D47CCA4@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Unsubscribing References: <000f01c234c0$d2280b00$3364fc3e@db-books> <001301c2359e$8bb009f0$0401a8c0@ivy7105eycv5lb> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:55:20 -0400 Status: RO The URL for unsubb-ing is: h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > I'm with you David. I can not, for the love of me, drop this group. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 15:23:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14341 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:23:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RJB1E28916; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJB0k23877; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJA2k23586 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (morr0688.gti.net [208.216.122.88]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id CA13C35AB6 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D42F00B.299284B9@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Unsubscribing Instrution References: <000f01c234c0$d2280b00$3364fc3e@db-books> <001301c2359e$8bb009f0$0401a8c0@ivy7105eycv5lb> <3D42EC98.1D47CCA4@gti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:10:03 -0400 Status: RO Go HERE: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume The box for unsubbing from the list is in the very last paragraph/option on this page under "h-costume Subscribers". Go to this part: 'To change your subscription (set options like digest and delivery modes, get a reminder of your password, or unsubscribe from h-costume), enter your subscription email address:' ....type your e-mail address into the box & click 'Edit Options'. One of the options is unsubscribe. That should do it. Good luck to you. Deb R. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 15:28:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14361 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:28:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RJG1E29158; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJG0k25088; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJF3k24839 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-45-8.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.45.8]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g6RJF3a66362 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:15:03 -0400 Message-ID: <003b01c235a1$eaf189e0$082daf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <000f01c234c0$d2280b00$3364fc3e@db-books> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Unsubscribing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:15:06 -0700 Status: RO You need to write to Liz when she gets back and get a password. Then it will recognize you as a member and let you into the unsubscribe portion. angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "david.batterham" To: Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 9:22 AM Subject: [h-cost] Unsubscribing > Can any member kindly help me to unsubcribe to h-costume, All the e-mail > addresses referred to on the home page return themessages sent to the, Also > I am not listed in the Yahoo Groups list of groups as being amember in the > first place and yet messages pour in ; trying to click No E-Mails makes no > difference. > Ifeel sure a few simple click will do the trick but what are they and > where. Can you help David > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 15:36:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14401 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:36:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RJO1E29532; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJO0k26979; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJNjk26904 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:23:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (morr0688.gti.net [208.216.122.88]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 339B33543C for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D42F322.B3AEF863@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion Magazines References: <003501c22ee9$fe2b3f60$15e8fc3e@db-books> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:23:15 -0400 Status: RO BTW, for collector of antique fashion /costume books, magazines, etc., I recommend David Batterham. >From him, I was able to procure a complete, bound set of the French fashion magazine "Les Modes", after about 7 years of looking for even one loose copy... He is the man with the goods if you are looking for antique French costume books. Deb R. > I am a bookseller specialising in fashion magazines l800-l970 (mostly > French). Anyone interested in receiving occasional catalogues please let me > know or check out current stock on > Abebooks.Com>STORES>Batterham>Browse>catalog>fashion _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 15:47:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14441 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:47:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RJZ2E00110; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJZ1k29389; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6RJYpk29343 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020727193450.35542.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 20:34:50 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Unsubscribing To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001301c2359e$8bb009f0$0401a8c0@ivy7105eycv5lb> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 20:34:50 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- BH Macchia wrote: > > > I am not listed in the Yahoo Groups list of groups as being amember in the > > first place and yet messages pour in ; trying to click No E-Mails makes > no > > difference. > > Ifeel sure a few simple click will do the trick but what are they and > > where. Can you help David This is not a Yahoogroup in the first place, therefore it won't work to click anything on yahoo, naturally. Please do bear this in mind and follow the instructions the others have given to you. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 15:55:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14500 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:55:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RJh1E00473; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJh0k01583; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJgBk01395 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from db-books ([62.252.232.12]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020727194209.CYYE24372.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@db-books> for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 20:42:09 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c234dc$5a27c340$0ce8fc3e@db-books> From: "david.batterham" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Subject: [h-cost] unsubscribing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:37:07 +0100 Status: RO I want to unsubscribe from h-cosume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 16:06:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14546 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:06:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RJs1E01035; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJs0k04513; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RJrJk04319 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10551 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:54:08 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing In-Reply-To: <3D4265BC.30418.1885DAED@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:54:08 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > I tried to send a message to the email address given in the article, > but it came back saying there was no such address. Any clues, > Robin? Nope. You know what I know. Perhaps a web search for the newspaper would turn up a site with contact information? Or another post to the UK living history board, asking for a better address? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 16:19:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14598 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:19:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RK71E02921; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RK70410900; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RK6m410834 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:06:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10641 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:07:39 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? In-Reply-To: <3D42C0B4.AF9EB18@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:07:39 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Wanda, do you have more information available about the Macejiwski > bible? I'm not Wanda, but I can help here. There's a brilliant, oversize facsimile edition called "Old Testament Miniatures." I bet you can get it ILL. I found my copy used for about $60, but every other copy I've seen used has been over $100. The manuscript itself is at the Pierpont Morgan Library in NYC. It's historically interesting for many reasons, not least because it includes handwritten glosses (from various owners over several centuries) in Hebrew and Arabic (Persian) in addition to the original Latin text! The clothing illustrations are extremely useful, because there are hundreds of figures, mostly dressed realistically, showing many views of the same set of garments. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 16:33:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14700 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:33:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RKL1E03617; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RKL0414284; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RKKr414250 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:20:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10687 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:21:44 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? In-Reply-To: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:21:44 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > On the gowns where it's obvious that there are buttons running at > least part way down the front of the garment, do you think they run > all the way down, or just partly? I can't recall ever seeing a reliable example of buttons going all the way down the front of a woman's dress. Perhaps it was done, but if so, it must have been pretty rare. Yet many secondary sources (of the Herbert Norris type) show this as an acceptable variant. I would be most happy to see legitimate examples, if any exist. For the pre-1350 looser styles, you might find buttons just a few inches down the center front neck opening. For women's fitted overgowns of the last half of the century, you may see buttons down to the hipline or so. Men's short cotehardies of this period do seem to button all the way to the hem, but that's still about the same length of buttoned opening you need on a woman's full gown. Similarly, in earlier (and lower-class) styles, you may see just a few inches of buttons at the wrist, but in later styles, when the entire sleeve was fitted, you'll see buttons running up past the elbow. Based on illustrations, it seems that buttons down the center front were used on overgowns, but not on undergowns, which makes sense from a practical standpoint. (Early in my costuming career, I made the mistake of making a buttoned undergown. Never again.) I see more buttons in English images of the late 14th century as compared with French, but they're certainly visible in both areas. > Also, I'm guessing that the buttons might be made like those cloth > ones in the MoL book, maybe? Teddy, didn't you make a bunch of these a > while ago? How hard were they to do? The London finds include both cloth and metal buttons, but they're written up in different books. I don't think we know what garments the metal buttons were attached to. Some of the surviving garments have had cloth buttons attached, including the one surviving example of a sleeve. Given that buttons down the front of a gown are sometimes depicted as jeweled or otherwise decorated, it's likely they were materials other than cloth, at least sometimes. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of wood, bone, ivory, or the like, though I know of none that have survived. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 16:36:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14724 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:36:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RKO1E03757; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RKO1414929; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RKNM414797 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10711 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:24:12 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] JEster costume In-Reply-To: <000001c23588$c9f02c60$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:24:12 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Kim Baird wrote: > This source was used by the author: Fancy Dress Described, or What to > Wear at Fancy Balls, by Ardern Holt, published in London by Debenham and > Freebody, 1896. This is the book I mentioned a few weeks ago when we were discussing Victorian fancy dress. It was originally published in the 1870s and went into many editions. I don't know if it was updated in content during that time, so it may not reflect 1896 fashions as much as those of 20 years earlier. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 16:39:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14750 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RKR1E03908; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RKR0415598; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RKQ4415409 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10735 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:26:54 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020727171419.8279.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] London bookstores again Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:26:54 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Debbie Lough wrote: > Robin's experience of Foyle's is clearly out of date. > > I've been going to Foyles every couple of months for around the last > seven years, and the books have always been filed by subject... The > staff used to be unhelpful, because they were on commission, so > everything had to be bought through the departments staff (ie, if you > wanted things from different sections you had to buy them seperately, > and a staff member not from a particular section wouldn't know what > you were talking about). That has now changed completely - no more > commission, and new management might have helped. This is great to hear. Can you tell me if Zwemmer's or Ian Shipley are still on Charing Cross Road? They were the two best art bookstores I found, but that was some years ago. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 17:38:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14969 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 17:38:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6RLQ2E06189; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RLQ0428573; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6RLP7428392 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:25:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6RLOE8j008730 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:24:15 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C2357A.90372310" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-reply-to: <20020727171419.8279.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [h-cost] Foyles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:33:24 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C2357A.90372310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My experience was much the same as Robin's, but at least as long ago. I'm happy that someone finally decided to come into the 20th Century (as opposed to the 19th which is where they still were in the 80's!) So! Do they have a website? Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Debbie Lough Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:14 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1112 - 12 msgs On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Debbie Lough wrote: >> In London there's Klein's haberdashery shop, and Foyles book shop. >The clerks at Foyle's have an international reputation for being aloof and >unhelpful, though I'll grant they may have changed in the last decade (but >I doubt it). Last time I was there, the books were filed by publisher. >Don't waste your time there unless you know exactly what you want. Robin's experience of Foyle's is clearly out of date. I've been going to Foyles every couple of months for around the last seven years, and the books have always been filed by subject. The costume and craft books are on the first floor (hundreds of them), and the military history books (incl. uniforms) are on the second floor. I managed to find several out of prints at sums drastically cheaper than anywhere else in Britain (let alone London), simply by browsing through the shelves. The staff used to be unhelpful, because they were on commission, so everything had to be bought through the departments staff (ie, if you wanted things from different sections you had to buy them seperately, and a staff member not from a particular section wouldn't know what you were talking about). That has now changed completely - no more commission, and new management might have helped. That said, many of the other book shops on Charing Cross Road are also fantastic. Debbie. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C2357A.90372310 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My=20 experience was much the same as Robin's, but at least as long ago.  = I'm=20 happy that someone finally decided to come into the 20th Century (as = opposed to=20 the 19th which is where they still were in the = 80's!)
 
So!  Do they have a website?
 
Regina=20 Romsey
-----Original Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com=20 [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Debbie=20 Lough
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:14 AM
To:=20 h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, = Vol 1=20 #1112 - 12 msgs




On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Debbie Lough=20 wrote:

>> In London there's Klein's haberdashery shop, = and=20 Foyles book shop.

>The clerks at Foyle's have an = international=20 reputation for being aloof and
>unhelpful, though I'll grant = they may=20 have changed in the last decade (but
>I doubt it). Last time I = was=20 there, the books were filed by publisher.
>Don't waste your = time=20 there unless you know exactly what you want.

Robin's experience of Foyle's is clearly out of date.

I've been going to Foyles every couple of months for around the = last=20 seven years, and the books have always been filed by subject.  = The=20 costume and craft books are on the first floor (hundreds of them), = and the=20 military history books (incl. uniforms) are on the second = floor.  I=20 managed to find several out of prints at sums drastically cheaper = than=20 anywhere else in Britain (let alone London), simply by browsing = through the=20 shelves.

The staff used to be unhelpful, because they were on commission, = so=20 everything had to be bought through the departments staff (ie, if = you wanted=20 things from different sections you had to buy them seperately, and a = staff=20 member not from a particular section wouldn't know what you were = talking=20 about).  That has now changed completely - no more commission, = and new=20 management might have helped.

That said, many of the other book shops on Charing Cross Road are = also=20 fantastic.

Debbie.


Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits = your=20 needs.

http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C2357A.90372310-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 20:25:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15600 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 20:25:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6S0D2E12652; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6S0D0405328; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6S0C3405133 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6S0DI529659 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 17:13:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207280013.g6S0DI529659@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 15th century female dress In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020726133133.00bace10@pop.directcon.net> "from Margo Anderson at Jul 26, 2002 01:31:33 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 17:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I think Monarch software might work -- it's used for searching text archives of email lists, if someone could pull all the archives over to a server that had it installed. .heather. > > > > >Not to worry. Eric used to have a full-text search capability on the > >archives, but now that it's only author and subject line, you kind of have > >to know where to look. > > Does anyone else hate this as much as I do? I've spent countless hours > trying to find the right title to search under. Eric said he did this > because it made the searhing faster, which I suppose it does if you know > the exact title, but I for one found it far more convenient to be able to > search by content. > > If enough people agree with me, maybe we can find a solution to the problem. > > Margo > "One Tough Costumer" > > > See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 21:17:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16022 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 21:17:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6S152E14932; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6S150416325; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6S14l416257 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip208.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.208]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6S14go19712 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:04:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] London bookstores again Message-ID: <3D42E278.3528.1A6D2EC2@localhost> Priority: normal References: <20020727171419.8279.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:12:08 -0700 Status: RO > Can you tell me if Zwemmer's or Ian Shipley are still on Charing Cross > Road? They were the two best art bookstores I found, but that was some > years ago. They were in 1999 when I was there. I made the sales people very happy. (Zwemmers was where I got my copy of _Details of Dress_ when it hadn't quite come out over here yet.) Felicity J. Warnes is still in Enfield (which is close enough that it is on part of the London Underground system). She has a mail and by appointment only place. I just got a catalog from her today. She has "Books & Ephemera on: Costume, Fashion, Lace, Embroidery, Textiles, Social History." I you are interested, her email address is felicity@fjwarnes.u-net.com and telephone (with answerphone) at 020 8367 1661. She is a very nice lady who even takes you back to the tube station (although she usually has you take a cab to her place.) I made her *very* happy with my orders when I was last there. (Of course, she made *me* happy by having books that I had been looking for and some I didn't realise existed until I saw them. June M. Russell, MD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 21:51:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16221 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 21:51:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6S1adE18002; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6S1U5424194; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6S1Tp424064 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:29:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a29.in-tch.com [66.62.107.9]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6S1Et909527 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D434A30.F33D6EAC@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foyles References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:34:40 -0600 Status: RO I take it, from all the discussion, that it'd be worth it for me and my travelling companion to visit this place? --Sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jul 27 22:05:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16293 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 22:05:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6S1rGE18741; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6S1rE400187; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6S1qt429961 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12158 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 20:53:47 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foyles In-Reply-To: <3D434A30.F33D6EAC@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 20:53:47 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I take it, from all the discussion, that it'd be worth it for me and my > travelling companion to visit this place? If you're already on Charing Cross Road, it should be one of your stops. But only one. It's a general-interest bookstore, and you don't want to focus on that to the exclusion of the art bookstores and (especially!) the used bookstores. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 06:25:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19020 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:25:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SADAE04472; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 04:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SAD1405077; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 04:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SACo405047 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 04:12:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020728101245.RTHB8192.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 10:12:45 +0000 Message-ID: <3D43C3A4.7070801@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing research References: <4.3.1.2.20020717195427.00cae5c0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 03:12:52 -0700 Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Yes. Make friends with your local reference librarian. Through a friend, I've been speaking to a gentleman who has entered his projects in an A&S competition. He has been kind enough to give me a few author names and a title of a book that was translated. I believe it originally was written in the 1500's. Luckily I had the book end my personal library. > The Coptic Egyptians were printing dye-resist on fabric by the 5th or > 6th century AD, if I remember correctly. Europeans were block > printing on fabric before they were block printing on paper, and > printing with movable type came after that. Movable type? I'm still trying to define all the words so I can understand the reading material. I'm trying to find info concerning the 14th-15th centuries. > I think wood blocks are traditional, but much the same effect can be > achieved using a linoleum block, which is much easier to carve (it is > softer and has no grain to get in the way). Another friend is going to give me a lesson in carving linoleum, when I have gotten that down then I'm going to try wood. I've been told that basswood and pear wood is supposed to be the best woods to use. > Yes. Look up a book about linoleum printing, and it will tell you > more than I could. Small pieces of linoleum printing can be done on a > kitchen table. Big art supply stores (not Aaron Brothers) have all > the parts you will need, and maybe even the book to show you how to do > it. Luckily here in Portland we have some great art supply stores. I may have to go and check them out tomorrow. > Davenport's book of costume has two pictures of block-printed fabric > on page 228, Ill's #634 and #635. #634 is German (Metropolitan > Museum), 12th-14thC, with a green background printed on natural linen, > leaving the pattern un-printed. The notes under this example say > printed fabric starts to appear in the Rheinland at the end of the > 12th century "in imitation of Italian brocades, often using silver and > gold". #635 has three German examples (V and A), 14th-15thC, and the > notes say the upper right one is "Rhenish: eagles, fruit and leaves in > dark purple". The background is printed, leaving the pattern > un-printed. There appears to be a main body print, and a smaller > border print to this one. Thank you for the info. I'm waiting for a copy of the Davenport through the ILL. I can't wait to check this book our since so many you have mentioned it in your posts. > No sizes are given for any of these pieces. One can't tell how much > pattern is on each block, or if several blocks were used in > combination. And there's no way to tell what the fabric was > ultimately used for, nor where any original stitching or selvedges > might be. But one of my Britanicas (the 1911, I think) shows an > SCA-period church vestment of block-printed fabric. > > Eventually, if not sooner, I will block-print myself a dress for SCA > use, and will enlighten all the 'authentic-er-than-thou' folks about > fabric printing. (Printed playing cards appear in the 15thcentury, as > do printed embroidery-pattern books.) I would love to see one of thos printed embroidery pattern books. Embroidery is another one of my passions. I have a period embroidery frame, that I need to learn how to set up. Thank you again for the info. It is greatly appreciated. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 07:10:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19125 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 07:10:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SAw3E05802; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 04:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SAw1413424; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 04:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from studorg.hiof.no (IDENT:root@studorg.hiof.no [158.36.33.137]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SAv5413223 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 04:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by studorg.hiof.no (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6SAv4u06280 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:57:04 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 15th century female dress In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020726133133.00bace10@pop.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:57:03 +0200 (CEST) Status: RO On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Margo Anderson wrote: > >Not to worry. Eric used to have a full-text search capability on the > >archives, but now that it's only author and subject line, you kind of have > >to know where to look. > > Does anyone else hate this as much as I do? > If enough people agree with me, maybe we can find a solution to the problem. I agree. And (depending on how he's programmed it now), it should be possible to program a choice of searching by author/subject or content - that way speed of search can be preserved for when you know the subject, and the more time-consuming search can be used only when you need it. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 08:56:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19363 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 08:56:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SCi3E08406; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SCi0401544; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SChc401475 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:43:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020728124333.WPDE1975.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 08:43:33 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing Message-ID: <000001c235f4$82c9f0c0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 01:06:14 -0400 Status: RO A Google search turned up the following: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/brabner/oidfauk/notmus.htm http://www.knittingtogether.org.uk/nottinghamMuseumCostume.htm Good Luck to all, Linda -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 2:54 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > I tried to send a message to the email address given in the article, > but it came back saying there was no such address. Any clues, > Robin? Nope. You know what I know. Perhaps a web search for the newspaper would turn up a site with contact information? Or another post to the UK living history board, asking for a better address? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 10:57:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19832 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 10:57:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SEjjE11896; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 08:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SEjg421797; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 08:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SEfM421090 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 08:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZY000IYRGWIK@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 07:41:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric printing research In-reply-to: <3D43C3A4.7070801@attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020728062835.00c58100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020717195427.00cae5c0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 07:41:09 -0700 Status: RO >>Europeans were block printing on fabric before they were block printing >>on paper, and printing with movable type came after that. > >Movable type? Sorry if I confused you. First came block printing on fabric, then block printing on paper, then printing with movable type on paper. I have seen no evidence of printing with movable type on fabric in any period. >Another friend is going to give me a lesson in carving linoleum, when I >have gotten that down then I'm going to try wood. I've been told that >basswood and pear wood is supposed to be the best woods to use. Victorian wood engravings were done on really hard wood and, as I recall, were done on the end grain, to minimize the effect of grain lines in printing and grain difficulties in carving. End grain is with the fibres sticking straight up, like they do at the end of a board. >Thank you for the info. I'm waiting for a copy of the Davenport through >the ILL. I can't wait to check this book our since so many you have >mentioned it in your posts. The pictures of the printed textiles in Davenport are especially clear, for Davenport, but textile design books are likely to have clearer pictures. I have a few of these in my own library: The Pleasures of Pattern, Wm. Justema, 1968, 1982(ISBN 0-442-24531-9): p.38, "BOOKPAPER. German, 16th century."; p.69, "WALLPAPER. 1509. Discovered at Christ's Church College, Cambridge." Two examples on paper, but similar to those on textiles. Design on Fabrics, Meda Parker Johnson and Glen Kaufman, 1967, LoC #66-22689: p. 10, "Resist block print on cotton, India, 14th-15th century. Found in Fostat, Egypt." (Cooper Union Museum), "Resist block print on wood, (picture looks like on cloth - misprint?) India, 15th century." (Metropolitan Museum); p. 15, "Block print, silver pigment on linen, Germany, 12th-14th century (similar to one in Davenport).", "Block print, black pigment on linen, Germany, 13th century.", "Resist block print on linen, Germany, 17th century." (all three examples from The Cooper Union Museum); p. 20 "Block prints on linen, noboyka, Russia, 16th-18th century." (Brooklyn Museum); p. 46, "Block print, resist on cotton, India, 12th 14th century." (Metropolitan Museum). Block Printing on Textiles, Janet Erickson, 1961, LoC #61-7021: p. 34 "Egypto-Arabic carved wooden block" (Metropolitan Museum) - no date given, and the block is not square, but shaped to fit the pattern; p. 139, "German block print for ecclesiastical embroidery, 15th Century" (Metropolitan Museum); p. 144, "Egypto-Arabic textile print, 13th-16th Centuries (Mamluk Period)" (Metropolitan Museum); p. 147, "Egypto-Arabic stamped and gilded textile, 10th Century" (Metropolitan Museum) - p. 144 and p. 147 examples may be the date bracket on the p. 34 example; p. 154-155, "Russian textile, 17th Century" (Cooper Union Museum) - really similar to one of the pieces on p. 20 previous book, but different museum and dates. This is the book I will refer to whenever I get around to doing my own fabric printed SCA dress. The Thames and Hudson Manual of Textile Printing,Joyce Storey, 1974, LoC #85-50861: p.10, "Resist print in blue from about the fifth century.The scene represents the Nativity, with the Angel in attendance on the Virgin. Found at the burial-grounds at Akhmin, Upper Egypt." (no museum given); p. 28, "Rhenish block print in black non natural linen; about thirteenth century.". This book also has a lot of information on 18th century and Victorian fabric printing, including illustrations showing a woman textile printer and woman textile printing factory worker. There are several colour pictures of historical examples of printed textiles, from various periods. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 11:39:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23982 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SFR7E13279; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 09:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SFR5429307; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 09:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SFC7426575 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 09:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a28.in-tch.com [66.62.107.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6SEw8910365 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 08:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D440B1F.F3A31E7B@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foyles References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 09:17:51 -0600 Status: RO Art bookstores??? Used bookstores??? Are these all up and down Charing Cross Rd, or clustered somewhere? Hmmmm........ --Sue, who doesn't think she's actually ever even *seen* an art bookstore, but who's beginning to suspect it's a durn good thing she's taking another piece of (empty) luggage..... Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > I take it, from all the discussion, that it'd be worth it for me and my > > travelling companion to visit this place? > > If you're already on Charing Cross Road, it should be one of your stops. > But only one. It's a general-interest bookstore, and you don't want to > focus on that to the exclusion of the art bookstores and (especially!) the > used bookstores. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 12:53:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24243 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:53:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SGfpE15674; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 10:41:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SGfn414107; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 10:41:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SGHh409482 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 10:17:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14811 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:18:37 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Foyles In-Reply-To: <3D440B1F.F3A31E7B@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:18:37 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Art bookstores??? Used bookstores??? to sound innocuous and innocent> Are these all up and down Charing > Cross Rd, or clustered somewhere? Hmmmm........ See my earlier post about the walk between Leicester Square and Trafalgar Square. You'll be at Trafalgar Square anyway for the National Gallery and National Portrait Gallery. (Um, you *will*, won't you?) Charing Cross Road extends north from there. When I was there, there were bookstores all the way up -- not every doorway, but a good lot of them. They vary in size, specialty, quality, etc. If you stick your head in one and don't see anything promising, move on to the next -- there may be one or two things in there you want if you spend an hour digging, but the hour will be better spent in a bookstore more in tune with your interest. Off the east side of Charing Cross Road are a couple of small (tiny!) streets -- St. Martin's Court and Cecil Court -- that were lined with ephemera shops (old magazines, engravings, etc.). If this is your thing, you will spend forever here. If it's not your thing, move along or you'll lose your whole day. In addition to Foyle's, look for Waterstone's -- these are the two major general-interest bookstores. Zwemmer's is the leading art bookstore. The used bookstores vary in nature, but I had very good luck at Ian Shipley's; someone else posting on this thread assured me it's still there. Everything else I say may be wrong, as I have not been on that stretch of road for about 10 years. > --Sue, who doesn't think she's actually ever even *seen* an art > bookstore, but who's beginning to suspect it's a durn good thing she's > taking another piece of (empty) luggage..... I generally pack one suitcase inside another and return with both full. When you come back, be sure to spread the book weight evenly among your cases, so you don't go over the weight limit. And check at each store about shipping -- at stores that are accustomed to shipping, you may find it worth the cost just to reduce your labor in lugging the stuff all over. Bear in mind that you could spend several weeks in London, packing your days full, without repeating yourself. You are planning what, three days? You will not have time for more than a few high points, and you will promise yourself a return trip. That said ... my first trip to England, I spent two weeks solid in London. That was in about 1985. Since then, on each trip, I have spent much more time out of London than in it, with the possible exception of the three weeks I spent in Harrow (a distant London suburb) while my husband was doing Naval Reserve duty north of London. He took the tube north to the base every day, and I took the tube south into the city. We spent an additional week road-tripping around part of the country. That was our honeymoon :-) A personal note: I have found that the more cities I try to see on one trip, the less I get out of any one city; traveling is exhausting, and getting settled into new digs takes time out of each day. I get a better-quality experience by staying a few nights in one hotel or B&B as a base, and traveling out from there on day trips. I have more than once cut off a loop of my planned itinerary so I can extend a stay in some particularly pleasant area. (As a result, I know the Cotswalds pretty well, but I have never made it to York.) OBCostume: For one road trip, with a costume-minded friend, I took Margaret Scott's book on 14th and 15th-century dress and plotted the locations of all the effigies she showed. Then I planned our driving route to see as many as possible. Where there's a gothic effigy, there's a church worth seeing, maybe with some brasses in it too or even an altarpiece. Some of the towns were tiny and way off the train lines, and the residents were stunned to see tourists, particularly when they found we'd come All The Way From The States to see *their* little church. Invariably we'd get, "Oh, but that's the *old* church. You want the *new* church up the road, it's really beautiful!" The new church was usually Victorian. No, thank you, we'll poke through the moldering old medieval one, thanks. --Robin, who desperately needs to travel again _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 13:55:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24499 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:55:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SHhmE18136; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:43:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SHhh427200; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SHSd424125 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17YrqQ-0001IP-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:28:38 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] JEster costume References: <000001c23588$c9f02c60$6401a8c0@kimathlon> In-Reply-To: <000001c23588$c9f02c60$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:27:09 +0100 Status: RO Kim Baird wrote >Jean-- > >I have just finished reading a master's thesis on 4 fancy dress balls >held in Canada in 1874, 1895, 1896 and 1897. The author goes into great >detail on the costumes worn. Some were made by dressmakers or tailors, >others by costume rental companies in New York, Toronto and Montreal. >NONE of the women wore pants of any sort, certainly not short ones. > >I think your jester costume dates from the 20th century. You might find >it illustrated in a pattern book or fancy dress costume book from >1900-1930. > Do you say this because I suggested it was female, and it has short pants, or do other features suggest a later date? I know little enough about any clothes of this era, let alone fancy dress! I will look for the books you suggest, but I won't get to the art library until next weekend. Jean >This source was used by the author: Fancy Dress Described, or What to >Wear at Fancy Balls, by Ardern Holt, published in London by Debenham and >Freebody, 1896. >Also look for "The Art of Choosing Fancy Dress" in Everywoman's >Encyclopedia from 1906. > >In England, look for old Weldon's pattern catalogs. Also, Sophia Murphy >has written a book, The Duchess of Devonshire's Ball, published by >Sidgwick and Jackson in 1984. > >Let me know if you find a good date for it. > >Kim > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Jean Waddie >Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 3:00 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] JEster costume > >OK, sorry for all the problems - pictures of the Jester costume are now, > >hopefully, accessible to all at www.montgomerie.demon.co.uk/Costume > >I'd be interested in any views on whether it's male/female, and date. >It was described to me as being among "Great-Gran's things" - she was >born in 1877, and had only one male child - not sure of my grandfather's > >birth date, but my father was born in 1929, so we can guess roughly. My > >father didn't say anything about remembering it, so we can assume it >wasn't worn later than 1939. > > >Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 15:13:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24919 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:13:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SJ1rE21155; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:01:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SJ1c413662; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:01:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6SIWT407491 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:32:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020728183225.30308.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:32:25 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] UK online supplier for millinery wire? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:32:25 +0100 (BST) Status: RO I'm looking for the white bound millinery wire. does anyone know where to get it in the UK, preferrably online? You know how much I dislike shopping.... :-) Thanks Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 15:25:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24966 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:25:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SJD4E21757; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SJD1416462; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SJCA416286 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a237.in-tch.com [66.62.107.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6SIwA923795 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D444366.B196FBE1@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK online supplier for millinery wire? References: <20020728183225.30308.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:17:58 -0600 Status: RO Dunno about the UK, but I could bring some with me when I come your way next August, if you don't need it before then.... --Sue N Kipar wrote: > > I'm looking for the white bound millinery wire. does anyone know where to get > it in the UK, preferrably online? You know how much I dislike shopping.... :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 15:45:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25045 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:45:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SJX4E22464; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SJX1420534; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SJWT420408 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6SJXh345711 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207281933.g6SJXh345711@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I know sergers aren't period, but I do a lot of modern and more theatrical sewing, and I know a lot of you do, too... so I thought I'd ask here... I'm hoping to buy a serger in the next month or so -- probably something in the $500-900 range. I've never shopped for one before, and I'm wondering if anyone here can recommend a buyers guide (say from Threads or something?) or wants to tell me what they love/hate about sergers they have used. Thanks for all the advice. I can't wait to enter the great wide world of knits. .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 15:51:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25068 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:51:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SJd4E22737; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SJd1421865; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SJcU421754 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6SJdiu45830 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207281939.g6SJdiu45830@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: <003b01c235a1$eaf189e0$082daf40@angelap3a8d978> "from Cabbage Rose at Jul 27, 2002 12:15:06 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO and, most importantly, this list isn't a Yahoo Group at all, so going to yahoo won't help you to unsubscribe! > You need to write to Liz when she gets back and get a password. Then it will > recognize you as a member and let you into the unsubscribe portion. > > angela > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "david.batterham" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 9:22 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Unsubscribing > > > > Can any member kindly help me to unsubcribe to h-costume, All the e-mail > > addresses referred to on the home page return themessages sent to the, > Also > > I am not listed in the Yahoo Groups list of groups as being amember in the > > first place and yet messages pour in ; trying to click No E-Mails makes > no > > difference. > > Ifeel sure a few simple click will do the trick but what are they and > > where. Can you help David > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 16:45:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25341 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:45:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SKXmE25168; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SKXi404932; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:33:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SKWn404707 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:32:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.184.161.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.184.161]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Yuie-0002sf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:32:48 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Underarm fullness (WAS:) Early use of buttons??? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 10:33:41 -0700 Status: RO At 9:59 AM -0600 7/27/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >I've been trying to think of possible cuts to account for the underarm >fullness on these garments....About the closest (visually) that I've >been able to find in my own library (meager for the mid-middle ages), is >the article Heather did on the St. Louis shirt in _Tournaments >Illuminated_ relatively recently. The sleeves do seem to have a bit of >the same full above/narrow below look that the gowns in the Codex do.... >I've seen one version of this style (in Hunnisett's pre-1500 book), and >she achieves it using this perfectly enormous gusset under the arm, >which I may try in cheap fabric, just for the heck of it, but I'd rather >go for a more periodly-plausible cut than one that's >theatrically-plausible, if you get the distinction I'm so clumsily >trying to make! The leading theory on this in the "Heather Rose Jones school of thought" seems to be that the fullness comes from the body of the garment -- which is cut wider than one might expect. Most recommendations I see for T-tunics suggest you cut the body of the garment about twice the circumference of the body of the person. Try adding another foot or so on each side, beyond that. In a lightweight fabric, this won't add too much to the bulk around the waist if it's belted, but it will provide the extra width you're seeing in the top. (I'm sure she'll correct me if I have this wrong.) You may find that you actually don't need an underarm gusset at all -- I think we are all in the habit of putting them in, probably because we're so used to them in 17th-century and 19th-century shirts, but we've been looking around a little, and they may not be nearly as universal in earlier tunics (or shirts or smocks), especially not in under-tunics. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 16:50:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25358 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:50:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SKc5E25330; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SKc2405919; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com ([204.179.120.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SKax405673 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-relay02.mac.com (smtp-relay02-en1 [10.13.10.225]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g6SKaw9p000918 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtp-relay02.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g6SKavZH014547 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GZZ7XL00.H38 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:36:57 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing From: Agnes G To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c235f4$82c9f0c0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:37:29 -0700 Status: RO If you go to this site you will get the Nottingham city plan for the museums and a form to fill out giving your feedback to the museum instead of the newspaper - perhaps it is good to give the feedback to the newspaper just for the press but they may never get the info to the museum unless you send it directly. http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/whatson/museums/forwardplan.asp > From: "Linda Rice" > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 01:06:14 -0400 > To: > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing > > A Google search turned up the following: > > http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/brabner/oidfauk/notmus.htm > > http://www.knittingtogether.org.uk/nottinghamMuseumCostume.htm > > Good Luck to all, > > Linda > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Robin Netherton > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 2:54 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of > closing > > > On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > >> I tried to send a message to the email address given in the article, >> but it came back saying there was no such address. Any clues, >> Robin? > > Nope. You know what I know. Perhaps a web search for the newspaper would > turn up a site with contact information? Or another post to the UK > living > history board, asking for a better address? > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 17:19:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25511 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:19:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SL6oE26578; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SL6K412937; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SL2U411895 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:02:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.94.29fbe881 (3699) for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:02:11 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <94.29fbe881.2a75b5d3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:02:11 EDT Status: RO I have a Pfaff Hobbylock 788 and have been very happy with it. But I understand that Pfaffs today are not what they used to be. I have had my Bernina sewing machine for almost 2 years and am very happy with the product and the service. If I needed another serger, I think I would go with a Bernina. I think it is very important, too, for you to find a local dealer that stands behind his/her product. It is about a half hour drive to the store where I bought my Bernina, but I think the people who work there and service the machines are great. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 17:35:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25647 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:35:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SLN2E27466; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SLN0O17555; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.14]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SLMsO17500 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:22:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.101]) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 49913777; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:22:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <94.29fbe881.2a75b5d3@aol.com> References: <94.29fbe881.2a75b5d3@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? Cc: AnnBWass@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:22:55 -0400 Status: RO I'm very happy with my Babylock. I haven't used it for a lot of things yet, but it's been invaluable already! I REALLY love the air-assisted threading for the non-needle threads, and its use of regular sewing machine needles is a nice plus. -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 18:25:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25843 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:25:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SMD2E29379; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SMD0O28668; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6SMCSO28546 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 2177 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2002 22:09:44 -0000 Received: from tnt1-082140.kc.sound.net (HELO oemcomputer.sound.net) (209.153.82.140) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 2002 22:09:44 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020728171145.00a05ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/sound.net@pop3.norton.antivirus (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage clothing exhibit In-Reply-To: <200207251519.g6PFJ2a96108@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:12:43 -0500 Status: RO Wonderful! Thank you for the pictures. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 08:19 AM 7/25/02 -0700, you wrote: >there was a very lovely vintage clothing exhibit - primarly lingerie >dresses -- at Costume College 2002. I got so excited by it and took so >many photos that I didn't manage to get many of people! oops. > >I haven't really sorted through this album, so there are some near duplicates >and they aren't in any sensible order but if you'd like to see the preview- >"Way too many pictures of Vintage dresses and accessories" please >check out: > >http://www.wonderland.com/~alice/galleries/costumecollege2002/ > >.heather. > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 18:57:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25986 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:57:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SMj3E00570; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SMj1O05790; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SMinO05743 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17YwmO-0001zh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:44:48 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? Organization: PII Message-ID: <000601c23686$d7cc4040$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <200207281933.g6SJXh345711@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:33:48 -0700 Status: RO I have a 14 year old Jaguar by White-it is great. I know Threads just had an article on basic sewing machines. I searched their website and didn't see any serger comparisons, but if you write them they might just be able to point you to a comparison article. http://www.taunton.com/threads/index.asp **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Heather Meadows **Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:34 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? ** ** ** **I know sergers aren't period, but I do a lot of modern and **more theatrical sewing, and I know a lot of you do, too... so **I thought I'd ask here... ** **I'm hoping to buy a serger in the next month or so -- **probably something in the $500-900 range. I've never shopped **for one before, and I'm wondering if anyone here can **recommend a buyers guide (say from Threads or something?) or **wants to tell me what they love/hate about sergers they have used. ** **Thanks for all the advice. I can't wait to enter the great **wide world of knits. ** **.heather. ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 19:06:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26096 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:06:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SMs3E00943; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SMs0O07501; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SMr2O07332 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17YwuL-0002X0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:53:01 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? Organization: PII Message-ID: <000701c23687$fc164d00$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <200207281933.g6SJXh345711@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:41:58 -0700 Status: RO One more thing-consider a used machine. People buy sewing machines and use them like motorcycles-what the heck does that mean? They sit around and don't get used much and then they trade up. I bought my Viking #1 from a guy who bought it for his wife. She never used it, so what does he do? He buys her the newest high end model. I got mine at a significant discount. Most sewing machine dealers aren't going to sell you a bad machine-so it is a pretty safe bet. Also, take a class. Lots of community colleges offer serger classes. It really helps you learn how to use and take care of your machine-lots of people get frustrated with the threading and tension, it really isn't that hard-but it sure helps to have someone look over your shoulder to help figure out what is going on. **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Heather Meadows **Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:34 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? ** ** ** **I know sergers aren't period, but I do a lot of modern and **more theatrical sewing, and I know a lot of you do, too... so **I thought I'd ask here... ** **I'm hoping to buy a serger in the next month or so -- **probably something in the $500-900 range. I've never shopped **for one before, and I'm wondering if anyone here can **recommend a buyers guide (say from Threads or something?) or **wants to tell me what they love/hate about sergers they have used. ** **Thanks for all the advice. I can't wait to enter the great **wide world of knits. ** **.heather. ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 19:18:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26219 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:18:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SN62E01471; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SN61O09955; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SN5PO09822 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Yx6K-000764-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:05:24 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000801c23689$b3ebf500$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: Subject: [h-cost] Curios about this picture-odd dress for portrait? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:54:17 -0700 Status: RO http://www.geocities.com/marilee-cody/fitzroy.jpg This is a miniature of Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond, bastard son of Henry the VIII. I am curios about his attire. Doesn't it seem very casual? Or because it is a miniature-were they more intimate?? To me it looks like he is in his underwear!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 19:29:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26375 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:29:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6SNH5E01988; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:17:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SNH0O12363; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6SNGYO12284 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:16:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZZ00EJ8FBLWK@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:16:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: shirt ties again (was Re: [h-cost] Curios about this picture-odd dress for portrait? In-reply-to: <000801c23689$b3ebf500$6501a8c0@Home> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020728161337.00c57970@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:16:30 -0700 Status: RO >To me >it looks like he is in his underwear!! Looks like he just got out of bed, nightcap, nightshirt, and all. Also, notice the ties on both sides of the collar, so they must be the sewn-on kind. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 20:27:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27022 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:27:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T0F7E05408; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T0F5O27555; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T0EXO27408 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.31] (as-5-45.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.31]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6T02Zs14832 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Underarm fullness (WAS:) Early use of buttons??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:00:46 -0700 Status: RO At 10:33 AM -0700 7/28/02, Chris Laning wrote: >At 9:59 AM -0600 7/27/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >>I've been trying to think of possible cuts to account for the underarm >>fullness on these garments....About the closest (visually) that I've >>been able to find in my own library (meager for the mid-middle ages), is >>the article Heather did on the St. Louis shirt in _Tournaments >>Illuminated_ relatively recently. The sleeves do seem to have a bit of >>the same full above/narrow below look that the gowns in the Codex do.... >>I've seen one version of this style (in Hunnisett's pre-1500 book), and >>she achieves it using this perfectly enormous gusset under the arm, >>which I may try in cheap fabric, just for the heck of it, but I'd rather >>go for a more periodly-plausible cut than one that's >>theatrically-plausible, if you get the distinction I'm so clumsily >>trying to make! > >The leading theory on this in the "Heather Rose Jones school of >thought" seems to be that the >fullness comes from the body of the garment -- which is cut wider >than one might expect. Most recommendations I see for T-tunics >suggest you cut the body of the garment about twice the >circumference of the body of the person. Try adding another foot or >so on each side, beyond that. In a lightweight fabric, this won't >add too much to the bulk around the waist if it's belted, but it >will provide the extra width you're seeing in the top. (I'm sure >she'll correct me if I have this wrong.) I _think_ the question was about fullness in the sleeve itself, rather than fullness in the sides of the body of the garment. (If I'm wrong, than my other response is irrelevant.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 20:27:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27026 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:27:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T0FKE05422; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:15:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T0FJO27607; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:15:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T0EXO27411 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:14:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.193.31] (as-5-45.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.193.31]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6T02Ws14791 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 17:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:59:00 -0700 Status: RO At 9:59 AM -0600 7/27/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >I've been trying to think of possible cuts to account for the underarm >fullness on these garments....About the closest (visually) that I've >been able to find in my own library (meager for the mid-middle ages), is >the article Heather did on the St. Louis shirt in _Tournaments >Illuminated_ relatively recently. The sleeves do seem to have a bit of >the same full above/narrow below look that the gowns in the Codex do.... >I've seen one version of this style (in Hunnisett's pre-1500 book), and >she achieves it using this perfectly enormous gusset under the arm, >which I may try in cheap fabric, just for the heck of it, but I'd rather >go for a more periodly-plausible cut than one that's >theatrically-plausible, if you get the distinction I'm so clumsily >trying to make! Most of the time that I've seen sleeves that are relatively full on the upper arm and relatively narrow on the lower arm, the shaping is in the sleeves, rather than via gussets (although in terms of topology, the difference between a wide upper sleeve, and a straight sleeve gusset with a wide gusset, can sometimes be negligible). The sleeves on the St. Louis shirt (as I have interpreted it) are relatively typical of the cut that appears around the 12-13th century for albs (and I would tend to interpret the shirt as a variety of alb). They are basically a modified trapezoid with the wide end against the body -- but if you take the same shape and re-draw the cutting lines, you could get the same effect with a relatively straight main sleeve piece and a large square gusset, and in paintings, you only get the overall effect. However, I don't recall ever seeing a garment with gussets large enough to mimic the same effect as the trapezoidal-cut sleeves. I'd have to check the Hunnisett interpretation, but I don't remember (off the top of my head) encountering any surviving garments with something I'd term a "perfectly enormous gusset". Instead, large amounts of fabric in the upper arm seem to be generated by the main sleeve pieces. For another example of the type of sleeve I'm talking about, consider the Kragelund tunic (via Marc Carlson's site ), where the sleeve is pieced, but there is no separate gusset as such. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 21:22:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27915 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:22:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T1A2E08647; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T1A0O11334; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inet-mail2.oracle.com (inet-mail2.oracle.com [148.87.2.202]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T19GO11175 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inet-mail2.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by inet-mail2.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.3/Switch-2.2.3) with ESMTP id g6T18Kt28996 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgmgw4.us.oracle.com (rgmgw4.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.13]) by inet-mail2.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.3/Switch-2.2.3) with ESMTP id g6T18Il28978 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web54.us.oracle.com (web54.us.oracle.com [148.87.16.70]) by rgmgw4.us.oracle.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id g6T198w28234 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3478532.1027904796862.JavaMail.nobody@web54.us.oracle.com> From: Betsy Hanes Perry To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curios about this picture-odd dress for portrait? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Webmail Client Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO

He was a dying man when that portrait was painted.  It's possible he's in his nightshirt.  (He died at the age of 17, and I think he'd had tuberculosis for some time.)

Betsy Perry

http://www.geocities.com/marilee-cody/fitzroy.jpg

This is a miniature of Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond, bastard son of
Henry the VIII. I am curios about his attire. Doesn't it seem very
casual? Or because it is a miniature-were they more intimate?? To me
it looks like he is in his underwear!!

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 21:39:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28003 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:39:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T1R5E09182; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T1R1O15010; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T1QFO14851 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17YzId-0002cl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:26:15 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200207281933.g6SJXh345711@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:34:46 -0400 Status: RO Also check out places like Sears. I'm not kidding. About 5 or 6 years ago when I was looking for a serger, I could not in any way shape or form afford what the Berninas cost, and Sears had two types. I bought the higher-end one, and have been very happy with it. It is a 4 thread serger, and the only thing I wish it did was the cover stitch. But for an extra grand I'm still living without a cover stitch. Since much of my sewing is on natural fibers, I don't really need it that much anyway. BTW, I do not know who makes the ones badged as Kenmores these days. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 22:40:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28814 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:40:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T2S2E12070; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T2S1O28782; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T2RSO28656 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:27:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Z0Fr-0000cJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:27:27 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000001c236a6$1b4b83c0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:17:35 -0700 Status: RO I could have sworn one of my books has a color plate of this painting, but can't remember where. And as I recally Elizabeth is entering from the left! http://www.english.uiuc.edu/klein/420/tudrline.jpg Anybody else? Also, why is it that Lucas De Heere doesn't show up anywhere in the art site searches? Am I spelling it incorrectly? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 22:46:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28950 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:46:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T2Y1E12415; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T2Y0O00151; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T2XlO00118 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:33:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Z0Ly-0007YB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:33:46 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000101c236a6$fcec2280$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] RE: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:23:54 -0700 Status: RO I answered part of my own question. There must be two of them. Here is one that I am NOT looking for. http://web.nwe.ufl.edu/~lhager/variousandsundry/postcards/pcimages/pctud orsucession.jpg The one I am looking for has Elizabeth entering from the right, and she is wearing what looks like a brown and cream colored gown and robe with the same/similar pattern all over the gown, bodice and robe and sleeves. **-----Original Message----- **From: Saragrace knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] **Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 7:18 PM **To: 'h-costume@indra.com' **Subject: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source? ** ** **I could have sworn one of my books has a color plate of this **painting, but can't remember where. And as I recally **Elizabeth is entering from the left! ** **http://www.english.uiuc.edu/klein/420/tudrline.jpg ** **Anybody else? ** **Also, why is it that Lucas De Heere doesn't show up anywhere **in the art site searches? Am I spelling it incorrectly? ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jul 28 23:52:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30559 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:52:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T3e3E15365; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T3e0O14793; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T3dcO14701 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:39:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip110.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.110]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6T3dXq10608 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:39:34 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curios about this picture-odd dress for portrait? Message-ID: <3D445803.5896.20208B66@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000801c23689$b3ebf500$6501a8c0@Home> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:45:55 -0700 Status: RO > http://www.geocities.com/marilee-cody/fitzroy.jpg > > This is a miniature of Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond, bastard son of > Henry the VIII. I am curios about his attire. Doesn't it seem very > casual? Or because it is a miniature-were they more intimate?? To me > it looks like he is in his underwear!! It was not unusual during this time period to be painted in your shirt or the like. It had symbolism that I've never quite understood. This was probably along the lines of a masque costume, from what I've read, reeking of symbolism. June M. Russell, MD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 00:37:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31741 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:37:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T4P2E17414; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T4P1O24913; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T4O1O24696 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.f4.1f279fba (4208) for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:23:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:23:50 EDT Status: RO I adore my Benette 344A from Bernina. It was the high end version--my husband and sister went in together and got it for me one christmas about 10 years ago. I think that they paid a little over $1000 for it tho. It's been worth its weight in gold, though:) Albra/Kathryn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 01:12:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32683 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:12:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T504E18895; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T501O02894; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T4xgO02830 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:59:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZZ00FMHV7GKV@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:59:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification In-reply-to: <000101c236a6$fcec2280$6501a8c0@Home> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020728215814.00ca2580@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:59:03 -0700 Status: RO >The one I am looking for has Elizabeth entering from the right, and she >is wearing what looks like a brown and cream colored gown and robe with >the same/similar pattern all over the gown, bodice and robe and sleeves. Entering from the left, and on the right is someone sitting on a blackwork shirt? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 02:13:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08815 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:13:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T613E21025; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T611O15342; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T60iO15264 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:00:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2241.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.241]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06126 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:00:39 -0400 Message-ID: <3D44D856.390F52B9@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:53:27 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. This discussion seems to have taken a left or right turn somewhere. I thought that it was discussing buttons on undergarments, specifically shirts and chemises or smocks. There is ample evidence for cloth and other composition buttons going back into the medieval period. I was given to understand, though, that there was little evidence for buttons on men's undershirts (shirts, or singlets, another term) until close to the 18th cent. I am curious as to the source for the information about the Dorset style buttons in use after 1610. There is only one illo of a button-maker, and that not very clear, that I know of that shows what might be buttons with holes through them (the kind we are familiar with, with two or four holes perforating the disc body). All of the rest, including all known (to me, at least) and those from archaeological contexts, are of various materials and have shanks. The rest are cloth, and are some form of ball or disc sewn onto the fabric directly, or made of a wooden core. If anyone has any info on other button types in use in the 16th through to the 3rd Quarter 17th cent., please share your sources. Thanks, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 03:57:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08105 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:57:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T7k4E24288; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T7k1O06059; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6T7j3O05862 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020729074502.8795.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:45:02 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: shirt ties again (was Re: [h-cost] Curios about this picture-odd dress for portrait? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020728161337.00c57970@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:45:02 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >To me > >it looks like he is in his underwear!! > > Looks like he just got out of bed, nightcap, nightshirt, and all. Also, > notice the ties on both sides of the collar, so they must be the sewn-on > kind. Yep, I noticed the ties too :-) It supports my theory, after looking at shirts, stand-up collars of the early type (before +/- 1660) have sewn on ones. Nicole - melting in my office, a 17th c. building beside canterbury's oldest church & cemetery, so no air con... ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 04:15:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02227 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:15:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T838E25228; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T830O09621; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6T82IO09521 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020729080218.9748.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:02:18 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D44D856.390F52B9@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:02:18 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- leigh tartaglio wrote: > > understand, though, that there was little evidence for buttons on men's > undershirts (shirts, or singlets, another term) until close to the 18th cent. That is, if you count the late 1680s and 1690s close, which I guess, yes, they are, and the use of ribbons did not go out of use either, even in 1710. > I am curious as to the source for the information about the Dorset style > buttons in use after 1610. Who said that? I must have not read some of the posts in this thread. They were certainly in use at the dates mentioned above, the portraits I have show them clearly, I am convinced they cannot be anything else. There is only one illo of a button-maker, and that > not very clear, that I know of that shows what might be buttons with holes > through them (the kind we are familiar with, with two or four holes > perforating the disc body). I have never ever seen any reference to the modern type of hole-buttons, only the shanked ones, pray tell, from when is this illo and where could I find it? It would be mightily interesting. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 04:54:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13568 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:54:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T8h5E26481; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:43:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T8h3O17831; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T8gZO17710 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:42:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb04la (unverified [10.1.200.106]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:38:24 -0700 thread-index: AcI2202oagbEt54oTS6Yo2tLVhm9eA== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets Message-ID: <090101c236db$4da8efd0$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0902_01C236A0.A14A17D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:38:24 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0902_01C236A0.A14A17D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone else use a lucet for ties? If you make a cord from almost any sort of thread with a lucet, it come out round and non-stretchy, and from what I can gather, pretty authentic. Doesn't take long to do, just as well, as I'm about to make my corset laces from it. Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Sent: 7/26/2002 9:01:01 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets > > > >I tried using cotton crochet string as ties > >on the latest shirt I made, and it looked really good, just like the > >portraits, but I ended up having to cut them off to get my husband out of it > >because they knotted up so badly. > > I braid my cotton crochet string into ties, and it doesn't do that. And > they look all nice and handmade that way. > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------=_NextPart_000_0902_01C236A0.A14A17D0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone else use a lucet for ties? If you make a cord from almost any sort of thread with a lucet, it come out round and non-stretchy, and from what I can gather, pretty authentic. Doesn't take long to do, just as well, as I'm about to make my corset laces from it.

Freyalyn


_______________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
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<-----Original Message----->
>
> From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows
> Sent: 7/26/2002 9:01:01 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets
>
>
> >I tried using cotton crochet string as ties
> >on the latest shirt I made, and it looked really good, just like the
> >portraits, but I ended up having to cut them off to get my husband out of it
> >because they knotted up so badly.
>
> I braid my cotton crochet string into ties, and it doesn't do that. And
> they look all nice and handmade that way.
>
>
> Kayta
>
> //// \\\
> ////-@@\\\
> (((( 7 )))
> ((( ))))
> ) ((((((
> /----\ /---\))
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
------=_NextPart_000_0902_01C236A0.A14A17D0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 05:01:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13593 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T8n4E26641; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T8n2O19096; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T8mFO18938 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.187]) by mail.compassnet.com.au (8.11.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id g6T8kL022296 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:46:21 +1000 Message-ID: <02b001c236dc$982d3600$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: References: <090101c236db$4da8efd0$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:47:16 +1000 Status: RO I've used lucet cord for my corset lace - works really well. There is a little stretch in it, which can come in helpful for clothing as any stress on it will stretch a little rather than break. A friend also uses it for her children's shoe laces, and I'm thinking of it too as she's found that it doesn't untie accidentally as much as ribbons. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "freyalyn" To: Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets > Does anyone else use a lucet for ties? If you make a cord from almost > any sort of thread with a lucet, it come out round and non-stretchy, and > from what I can gather, pretty authentic. Doesn't take long to do, just > as well, as I'm about to make my corset laces from it. > > Freyalyn > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . > >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage > has the scoop on what matters most to you. > > <-----Original Message-----> > > > > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > Sent: 7/26/2002 9:01:01 PM > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets > > > > > > >I tried using cotton crochet string as ties > > >on the latest shirt I made, and it looked really good, just like the > > >portraits, but I ended up having to cut them off to get my husband > out of it > > >because they knotted up so badly. > > > > I braid my cotton crochet string into ties, and it doesn't do that. > And > > they look all nice and handmade that way. > > > > > > Kayta > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 05:27:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13772 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:27:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T9G3E27290; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9G1O08949; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9FYO08240 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05069.; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:16:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:15:32 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: London recommendations was [h-cost] Glass aglets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6T9FYO08240 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:15:11 +0100 Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > You got to go to London??? How cool!! > I'll be there (for the very first time) in just over a month (eeek! I > have way, way too much to do!). > I wish we had more time in London, but I'm also going to (lessee if I > can remember)...[snip] > Shrewsbury (cathedral and other stuff), The abbey church at Shrewsbury (as in the Brother Cadfael stories) is not actually a cathedral, but a parish church which once belonged to the pre-Reformation Benedictine community. There is now a visitor centre nearby for fans of the novels. There's also a castle in the town with a military museum (including some uniforms) and lots of picturesque houses. I remember a good bookshop too, but forget its name. When I was there last year I saw road signs to a visitor centre on the site of the Battle of Shrewsbury (1403?), but it was not yet open and the road was a dead end! Maybe it is open this year. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 05:36:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13851 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:36:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T9O3E27509; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9O1O23820; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9NCO23651 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:23:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05395.; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:24:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:23:10 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Kirby Hall, was Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1107 - 14 msgs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6T9NCO23651 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:22:57 +0100 Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 07/26/02 11:41am >>> wrote: We are so few people in our group at Kirby that I might not be able to leave the encampment to go to the trader's market. Will you be at Kirby as Kirke's Lambs, Nicole? I shall be there with the Generalls Musick, but without the dancers this year. Apparently we have only two official "concert" times each day, so may have a bit more leisure for wandering about than we have had in previous years. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 05:42:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13873 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:42:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T9U4E27772; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9U2O25220; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6T9TIO25084 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:29:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020729092917.23678.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:29:17 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Kirby Hall, was Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1107 - 14 msgs To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:29:17 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 07/26/02 11:41am >>> wrote: > We are so few people in our group at Kirby > that I might not be able to leave the encampment to go to the trader's > market. > > Will you be at Kirby as Kirke's Lambs, Nicole? I shall be there with the > Generalls Musick, but without the dancers this year. Apparently we have only > two official "concert" times each day, so may have a bit more leisure for > wandering about than we have had in previous years. Yes, we'll be there as 'us' so to speak. I think we'll be in teh living history area behind the house in the woods (???) don't ask me... What a shame, I would love to see the dancrs and the musicians together one day. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 05:49:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13885 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:49:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T9c3E28160; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9c1O26646; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9bDO26481 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-126-219.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.126.219]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AIW57014; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:37:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <057801c236e4$b3517a60$db7e4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <00c701c22e24$d53de960$b66d4ed5@pavilion> <001901c22e43$91549040$3bcfadcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT and On T Moulin Rouge & Green Fairy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:45:23 +0100 Status: RO >> Don't you have regular TB vacines there ? With the test ? >Do you have any idea how that comes across? To me it is a simple question Do you have the test/vacine there or not ? Obviously you are reading something else into it. I might think that you don't have TB vacine because it is not necessary TB being eliminated there (like rabies in dogs in the UK, wheras in France all dogs are required (I believe) to be vacinated) If you think I'm suggesting your country is so backward that it dosen't bother, I think you are being over sensitive, but sorry if somehow you interpreted a straight question thus. Incidentially the Green fairy bottle is still buyable in France now 45% OH (ah sun & wine & bread) humph sad to be back Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 05:52:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13897 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:52:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6T9f3E28221; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9f1O27162; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9euO27134 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:40:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKNX77F68W001BMI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:40:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKNX75UBMS001AEU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:40:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:36:40 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:36:30 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.68) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:36:26 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nottingham Costume Museum (UK) in danger of closing In-reply-to: <200207270451.g6R4pBk13823@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2FA42EC5FF7@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:36:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > (And how many costumers who visit England even know about this > museum? Perhaps their numbers would be higher with a little > publicity.) I had some of my stuff on display there a few years back... .... Erm more like about 9 years back. They were kind enough to put on a display to publicise the 3rd British Costume Convention being in Nottinham that year. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 06:12:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13952 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:12:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TA06E28733; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TA02O00708; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6T9xBO00579 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKNXTUPXY8001BMI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:59:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKNXTTUJQQ001AEU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:59:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:54:55 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:54:48 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.68) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:54:45 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? In-reply-to: <200207271716.g6RHG8k23853@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2FA91063F56@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:54:45 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Some further bits..... > On the gowns where it's obvious that there are buttons running at > least part way down the front of the garment, do you think they run > all the way down, or just partly? Also, I'm guessing that the > buttons might be made like those cloth ones in the MoL book, > maybe? Teddy, didn't you make a bunch of these a while ago? How > hard were they to do? I did and they're very easy and fairly quick to make, you can use offcuts of the garment and they look really good too. Working the buttonholes, on the other hand, is another matter entirely.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 06:18:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13969 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:18:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TA64E28883; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:06:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TA62O01857; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TA56O01714 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKNY26GSJK00157Y@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:05:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKNY26734O001AEU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:04:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:00:52 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:00:15 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.68) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:00:15 +0000 From: Teddy In-reply-to: <200207271716.g6RHG8k23853@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2FAA84C6E00@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: (h-cost) Foyles bookshop... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:00:15 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > >The clerks at Foyle's have an international reputation for being > >aloof and unhelpful, though I'll grant they may have changed in the > >last decade (but I doubt it). Last time I was there, the books were > >filed by publisher. Don't waste your time there unless you know > >exactly what you want. > > Robin's experience of Foyle's is clearly out of date. > > I've been going to Foyles every couple of months for around the > last seven years, and the books have always been filed by subject. > The costume and craft books are on the first floor (hundreds of > them), and the military history books (incl. uniforms) are on the > second floor. I managed to find several out of prints at sums > drastically cheaper than anywhere else in Britain (let alone > London), simply by browsing through the shelves. > > The staff used to be unhelpful, because they were on commission, > so everything had to be bought through the departments staff (ie, > if you wanted things from different sections you had to buy them > seperately, and a staff member not from a particular section > wouldn't know what you were talking about). That has now changed > completely - no more commission, and new management might have > helped. Thanks Debbie! I've avoided Foyles for *years* (as well as advising others to) because they were so terrible. They were so bad, infact, that they were used as *the* example of how not to organise book collections when I was doing my Librarianship degree at a London polytechnicin the late 1980's. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 06:25:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13986 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:25:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TAD3E29025; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TAD1O03095; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TACqO03055 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb03la (unverified [10.1.200.104]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:08:41 -0700 thread-index: AcI25+p93XdvEJD7S4aqsgHP+0HQVg== Thread-Topic: Kirby Hall, From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Message-ID: <02b601c236e7$ea7dbf50$0ec8a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02B7_01C236AD.3E1EE750" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kirby Hall, Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:08:41 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02B7_01C236AD.3E1EE750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When is the event at Kirby Hall, and where is it?? Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > > From: Kate M Bunting > Sent: 7/29/2002 6:24:57 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Kirby Hall, was Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1107- 14 msgs > > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 07/26/02 11:41am >>> wrote: > We are so few people in our group at Kirby > that I might not be able to leave the encampment to go to the trader's market. > > Will you be at Kirby as Kirke's Lambs, Nicole? I shall be there with the Generalls Musick, but > without the dancers this year. Apparently we have only two official "concert" times each day, so may > have a bit more leisure for wandering about than we have had in previous years. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------=_NextPart_000_02B7_01C236AD.3E1EE750 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When is the event at Kirby Hall, and where is it??

Freyalyn


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<-----Original Message----->
>
> From: Kate M Bunting
> Sent: 7/29/2002 6:24:57 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Kirby Hall, was Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1107- 14 msgs
>
>
>
> Kate Bunting
> Library, University of Derby
>
> >>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 07/26/02 11:41am >>> wrote:
> We are so few people in our group at Kirby
> that I might not be able to leave the encampment to go to the trader's market.
>
> Will you be at Kirby as Kirke's Lambs, Nicole? I shall be there with the Generalls Musick, but
> without the dancers this year. Apparently we have only two official "concert" times each day, so may
> have a bit more leisure for wandering about than we have had in previous years.
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
------=_NextPart_000_02B7_01C236AD.3E1EE750-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 06:32:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14006 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:32:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TAK2E29199; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TAK1O04508; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TAJQO04367 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 04:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKNYJOUQ28001305@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:19:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKNYJLUDWU001AEU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:19:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:14:57 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:14:52 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.68) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:14:44 +0000 From: Teddy In-reply-to: <200207270451.g6R4pBk13823@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <2FAE6A435E9@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1115 - 13 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:14:44 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Now for the questions: Does anybody have experience in making > fitted (or somewhat fitted) clothing for people with the > expectation that they will change shape? I'm thinking in terms of > the extra-large seam allowences and hidden tucks people use for > growing children, but I'm not sure how these techniques will work > with things like a two-part sleeve. > > Does anybody have ideas of what styles will look good on his > frame? He's been looking at Elizabethan lately, though he remains > unconvinced. Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Anybody? > > Any help at all will be greatly appreciated! > Hi Emma, Speaking as someonw who plays an Italian Ren persona and who has gained over 50 pounds over the last six years or so... the *only* garments that have remained wearable over the weight gain have been my houpellandes. They come in varyinglengths from hip length to floor length and are full int he body and belted in at the waist (or sometimes the hip, depending on period). Make them as close to a full-circle in the body as your fabric allows and he will have plenty of fabric in them. You just have to make sure that they are generous in the size of the armhole so that it doesn't get too tight as he gets bigger around the shoulders. It might be better to stick with the collarless styles too, in case his neck expands - high and round at the front, V at the back so they're easy to pull on ove rhte head - alternatively, a front opening with a vobacked stand-collar, and a centre-back seam that goes down the collar and the centre back of the garnet, and can be let out if his neck increases drastically in size. An alternative to the houpellande that should work in the same way is the cloak tabbard. I made one last week (one evening in a hurry when i realized I hadn't anythign suitable to wear for an event) using a half circle (two quarter circles) for the back and a quarter circle for the front. I left the top six inches or so of the seam joining the back two quarters open to form the back V ov the neck-opening, and cut a narrow "U" out of the point of the front quarter which spread open to form the high round front neckline. I cut the linings to match and sewed the front lining face to face around the entire front quarter, leaving just a small gap to turn it through, did the same with the back half cirlce. Once turned through and pressed, I latter stitched the front to the back at the shoulders (about seven inches either side of the neck opening) and that's it. It's worn with the front part belted in at the waist and the back part hanging like a cloak.. Verly quick and simple, looks impressive (and will look even more so if I ever getaround to edging it with fur guiards/borders) Hope this helps Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 07:44:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14194 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:44:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TBW5E01366; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TBW1O18507; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TBVwO18489 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12228.; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:32:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:31:56 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kirby Hall, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6TBVwO18489 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:31:32 +0100 Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> freyalyn@ivillage.com 07/29/02 11:08am >>> When is the event at Kirby Hall, and where is it?? Freyalyn August 10-11th - officially History in Action, at Kirby Hall near Corby. _______________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 08:48:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14490 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:48:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TCaAE03714; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TCa3O02369; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:36:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TCZfO02300 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:35:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m198.in-tch.com [216.166.191.198]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6TCLe907692 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D4537F8.8706783F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: London recommendations was [h-cost] Glass aglets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:41:28 -0600 Status: RO Thanks for the correction! (I knew that, really I did....) That's exactly where we're headed in Shrewsbury, though! Also, a very dear friend's persona "lives" in Shrewsbury in the 12th c. (we're all SCA members), and I very much want to buy her something Shrewsbury-ish! ;-) --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > Shrewsbury (cathedral and other stuff), > The abbey church at Shrewsbury (as in the Brother Cadfael stories) is not actually a cathedral, but a parish church which once belonged to the pre-Reformation Benedictine community. There is now a visitor centre nearby for fans of the novels. There's also a castle in the town with a military museum (including some uniforms) and lots of picturesque houses. I remember a good bookshop too, but forget its name. > When I was there last year I saw road signs to a visitor centre on the site of the Battle of Shrewsbury (1403?), but it was not yet open and the road was a dead end! Maybe it is open this year. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 08:53:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14509 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:53:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TCeRE03892; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TCeIO03381; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:40:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TCd9O03095 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:39:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m198.in-tch.com [216.166.191.198]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6TCP8908223 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D4538C8.13F26E97@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> <3D44D856.390F52B9@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:44:56 -0600 Status: RO Actually, Mike, I think it's 2 different, fairly simultaneous discussions. The first one was one on Dorset buttons (started by Nicole?), while the second one (this one) was started by me (Sue), asking for input on what I was seeing in the Manesse Codex--there are a lot of tight lower sleeves in there, but I'd assumed it was a little early for buttons until I found a couple of the pix clearly depicting buttons, so I was asking for independent verification from the list members! ;-) --sue leigh tartaglio wrote: > > Hi, All. This discussion seems to have taken a left or right turn somewhere. > I thought that it was discussing buttons on undergarments, specifically > shirts and chemises or smocks. There is ample evidence for cloth and other > composition buttons going back into the medieval period. I was given to > understand, though, that there was little evidence for buttons on men's > undershirts (shirts, or singlets, another term) until close to the 18th cent. > I am curious as to the source for the information about the Dorset style > buttons in use after 1610. There is only one illo of a button-maker, and that > not very clear, that I know of that shows what might be buttons with holes > through them (the kind we are familiar with, with two or four holes > perforating the disc body). All of the rest, including all known (to me, at > least) and those from archaeological contexts, are of various materials and > have shanks. The rest are cloth, and are some form of ball or disc sewn onto > the fabric directly, or made of a wooden core. If anyone has any info on > other button types in use in the 16th through to the 3rd Quarter 17th cent., > please share your sources. Thanks, Mike T. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 08:56:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14521 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TCiIE04092; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TCiFO04351; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TChuO04263 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m198.in-tch.com [216.166.191.198]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6TCTr909107 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D4539E5.B225D680@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets References: <090101c236db$4da8efd0$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:49:41 -0600 Status: RO I've used lucet cording for laces, as opposed to ties. They work pretty good for lacing up bodices and corsets and such. They have the advantage over finger-loop braids of being able to be made to any length you want, although the finger-loop braids are sure pretty..... --Sue, apologizing in advance for not clipping this post, but the way Freyalyn's got her email set up, the reply looks blank from my end except for my *own* writing--what is that? html? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 10:23:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14944 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:23:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TEC2E11524; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEC1R02527; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEBLR02266 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:11:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.1a4.5dee024 (3842) for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:11:11 -0400 (EDT) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <1a4.5dee024.2a76a6fe@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Subject: [h-cost] OT: Dual-Power Singers? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:11:10 EDT Status: RO Hello everyone, One of my aunts was in the Peace Corps in Brazil in the 60's. We were talking the other day, and she recalls seeing modern (for that time) Singer sewing machines in Brazil that were electric/treadle. You could plug it in and use the electric motor, or you could unplug it, flip a couple things around, and use the treadle. You could even switch power sources in the middle of a project if the power went out (a daily occurance in her part of Brazil). She wrote to Singer after getting back to the US and was told they were only sold in third-world countries and were not available under any circumstances in the US. Anyone else ever hear of something like this? I hate to doubt her, but, well, this _is_ the aunt who had open-skull surgery to remove a growth from her pituitary gland, and you can't get to that without hitting brain tissue. There's plenty of places in the US where electrical service is iffy (one cousin used to live in a part of Wyoming that was pretty much wind power only), and this sounds practical. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 10:27:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14962 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:27:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TEG1E11932; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEG1R04188; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEF2R03885 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZBIb-0001mW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:15:01 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets Organization: PII Message-ID: <000501c23708$f6700e00$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C236CE.4A113600" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: <090101c236db$4da8efd0$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:05:14 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C236CE.4A113600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do-plus I have a great friend who does all the fancy ones with beads, picots and multiple colors. Its funny though I am fascinated by the square shape I get and the stretchiness!! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of freyalyn Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 1:38 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets Does anyone else use a lucet for ties? If you make a cord from almost any sort of thread with a lucet, it come out round and non-stretchy, and from what I can gather, pretty authentic. Doesn't take long to do, just as well, as I'm about to make my corset laces from it. Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters. >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Sent: 7/26/2002 9:01:01 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets > > > >I tried using cotton crochet string as ties > >on the latest shirt I made, and it looked really good, just like the > >portraits, but I ended up having to cut them off to get my husband out of it > >because they knotted up so badly. > > I braid my cotton crochet string into ties, and it doesn't do that. And > they look all nice and handmade that way. > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C236CE.4A113600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I=20 do-plus I have a great friend who does all the fancy ones with beads, = picots and=20 multiple colors.  Its funny though I am fascinated by the square = shape I=20 get and the stretchiness!!
Does anyone else use a lucet for = ties? If you=20 make a cord from almost any sort of thread with a lucet, it come out = round and=20 non-stretchy, and from what I can gather, pretty authentic. Doesn't = take long=20 to do, just as well, as I'm about to make my corset laces from=20 it.

Freyalyn


_______________________________________________________________<= BR>Sign=20 up for FREE iVillage=20 newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and = relationships,=20 iVillage
has the scoop on what matters most to you.=20

<-----Original Message----->
>
> = From:=20 Carolyn Kayta Barrows
> Sent: 7/26/2002 9:01:01 PM
> To:=20 h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt = ties/aiglets
>=20
>
> >I tried using cotton crochet string as = ties
>=20 >on the latest shirt I made, and it looked really good, just like=20 the
> >portraits, but I ended up having to cut them off to = get my=20 husband out of it
> >because they knotted up so = badly.
>=20
> I braid my cotton crochet string into ties, and it doesn't do = that.=20 And
> they look all nice and handmade that way.
> =
>=20
> Kayta
>
> //// \\\
> ////-@@\\\
> = (((( 7=20 )))
> ((( ))))
> ) ((((((
> /----\ /---\))
> =
>=20 _______________________________________________
> h-costume = mailing=20 list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>=20 http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C236CE.4A113600-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 10:36:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15019 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:36:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TEP1E12726; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEP0R07930; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEO4R07521 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZBRK-0004l5-00; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:24:03 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Cc: "'Carolyn Kayta Barrows'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification-left right Organization: PII Message-ID: <000c01c2370a$3919fbc0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020728215814.00ca2580@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:14:15 -0700 Status: RO I am sure I have confused everyone now-I am even a little confused. I think this image is reversed-it is the one I am looking for: http://www.english.uiuc.edu/klein/420/tudrline.jpg Alison Weir has it on the front of her "Henry VIII -The King and his Court". On the book cover Elizabeth is entering from the left (the viewer's) left. I don't see anyone sitting on a shirt though, but I know my image is cut off a bit. **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows **Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 9:59 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the **Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification ** ** ** **>The one I am looking for has Elizabeth entering from the **right, and she **>is wearing what looks like a brown and cream colored gown **and robe with **>the same/similar pattern all over the gown, bodice and robe and **>sleeves. ** **Entering from the left, and on the right is someone sitting **on a blackwork **shirt? ** ** **Kayta ** ** //// \\\ ** ////-@@\\\ ** (((( 7 ))) ** ((( <> )))) ** ) (((((( **/----\ /---\)) ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 10:37:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15033 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:37:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TEQ1E12780; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEQ1R08286; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEP3R07949 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:18:58 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AED1ABFF0270; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:18:57 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:18:57 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: Dual-Power Singers? Message-ID: <000201c2370b$ccfb1490$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <1a4.5dee024.2a76a6fe@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: h-costume@indra.com X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:25:33 -0500 Status: RO Leah-- I believe your aunt's story. I know Bernina still makes treadle machines for sale in "developing" nations. Of course, they are purely mechanical, not computerized machines. I have a Singer treadle from 1927. It works just fine for basic straight stitching. I always think I could use it to sew during a power outage, but the problem would be lighting. If you sit in the window, with daylight, it's not too bad. Otherwise, you need extra light, and of course the treadle doesn't have those handy little bulbs above the needle. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of LLWatts@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 9:11 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] OT: Dual-Power Singers? Hello everyone, One of my aunts was in the Peace Corps in Brazil in the 60's. We were talking the other day, and she recalls seeing modern (for that time) Singer sewing machines in Brazil that were electric/treadle. You could plug it in and use the electric motor, or you could unplug it, flip a couple things around, and use the treadle. You could even switch power sources in the middle of a project if the power went out (a daily occurance in her part of Brazil). She wrote to Singer after getting back to the US and was told they were only sold in third-world countries and were not available under any circumstances in the US. Anyone else ever hear of something like this? I hate to doubt her, but, well, this _is_ the aunt who had open-skull surgery to remove a growth from her pituitary gland, and you can't get to that without hitting brain tissue. There's plenty of places in the US where electrical service is iffy (one cousin used to live in a part of Wyoming that was pretty much wind power only), and this sounds practical. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 10:39:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15037 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:39:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TER2E12854; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TER1R08786; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEQYR08580 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:26:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZBTi-0007k1-00; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:26:31 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: Dual-Power Singers? Organization: PII Message-ID: <000d01c2370a$91126e20$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: <1a4.5dee024.2a76a6fe@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:16:43 -0700 Status: RO I've never heard of it, but there are folks out there that collect sewing machines. I bet there is even a history on them lurking around. I can't believe that you wouldn't be able to confirm it with Singer. **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of LLWatts@aol.com **Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:11 AM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: [h-cost] OT: Dual-Power Singers? ** ** **Hello everyone, ** **One of my aunts was in the Peace Corps in Brazil in the 60's. ** We were **talking the other day, and she recalls seeing modern (for **that time) Singer **sewing machines in Brazil that were electric/treadle. You **could plug it in **and use the electric motor, or you could unplug it, flip a **couple things **around, and use the treadle. You could even switch power **sources in the **middle of a project if the power went out (a daily occurance **in her part of **Brazil). She wrote to Singer after getting back to the US **and was told they **were only sold in third-world countries and were not **available under any **circumstances in the US. ** **Anyone else ever hear of something like this? I hate to **doubt her, but, **well, this _is_ the aunt who had open-skull surgery to remove **a growth from **her pituitary gland, and you can't get to that without **hitting brain tissue. **There's plenty of places in the US where electrical service **is iffy (one **cousin used to live in a part of Wyoming that was pretty much **wind power **only), and this sounds practical. ** **Leah **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 10:57:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15138 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:57:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TEj6E14615; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEj3R17013; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40205.mail.yahoo.com (web40205.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.66]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6TEiOR16694 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:44:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020729144418.28778.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.189.83.254] by web40205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:44:18 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207291417.g6TEH5R04694@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Sue wrote: I've used lucet cording for laces, as opposed to ties. They work pretty good for lacing up bodices and corsets and such. They have the advantage over finger-loop braids of being able to be made to any length you want, although the finger-loop braids are sure pretty..... I respond: Indeed, when made with some gleaming silk floss, for instance, fingerloop braids can be mesmerizingly gorgeous. My personal favorites are the Lace Baston, which is the same as a basic round lace of five bows, except that your five bows are linked, or 'departed'. This causes a length-wise stripe effect of the two colors you use. Another favorite is a round lace of eight bows, which is exceedingly simple to make, and produces a gorgeous spiral stripe effect. The only challenge with that one is the width of your bow floss/cording -- eight of them together can produce a too-thick cord, if you're not careful. I've managed to make finished laces that are about 2 to 2.5 feet long (perfect for my purposes of spiral-lacing a close-fitting kirtle) by tying a knot mid-way along the laces and then tying that area down and working out from the center. Later, I undo the knot and carefully tie another one on the edge of the finished section, leaving the un-braided section free. I then continue the braid out from the center going in the other direction. This method isn't perfect, because try as I might, there is always a small portion of slightly loose twists where the two areas meet in the middle, but it's hardly noticeable and definitely disguised when in use as a lace. If you've got a willing partner, you can make a very long, uninterrupted fingerloop braid with their help beating down the loops as you make each move. As for lucet cording, can someone give me the quick 'yes/no' on whether or not it's period pre-1600, and especially during the 14th century-on? Thanks, Tasha/Marcele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 11:11:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15232 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:11:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TExHE15811; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TExDR23538; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:59:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.228]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TEwDR23017 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:58:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-168-32-190.nyc.rr.com [24.168.32.190]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g6TF08kl029667; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:00:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Cc: "David. Batterham" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fashion Magazines Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <3D42F322.B3AEF863@gti.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:59:28 -0300 Status: RO I'm afraid that I'm the one who got David Batterham into his h-costume predicament and I fear he will no longer be speaking to me if he can't find the secret of, "Stop, Little Pot! Stop!" I recently "discovered" Mr. Batterham and was so very delighted with the bound issues of "Der Bazar" I bought from him, I encouraged him to introduce himself to the costume lists. I agree with Deb R. - he is a wonderful source. Martha BTW, for collector of antique fashion /costume books, magazines, etc., I recommend David Batterham. From him, I was able to procure a complete, bound set of the French fashion magazine "Les Modes", after about 7 years of looking for even one loose copy... He is the man with the goods if you are looking for antique French costume books. Deb R. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 11:13:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15242 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:13:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TF12E16065; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TF11R24508; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TF05R24005 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZC0C-0007Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:00:04 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000201c2370f$41a58980$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020729144418.28778.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Gleaming silk floss and fingloop braid question: length of fingerloop braids Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:50:17 -0700 Status: RO **Indeed, when made with some gleaming silk floss, for **instance, fingerloop braids can be mesmerizingly **gorgeous. Where do you get shiny silk floss? Everything I have seen at the fiber stores is flat finish. Great colors, but no shine. **My personal favorites are the Lace Baston, **which is the same as a basic round lace of five bows, **except that your five bows are linked, or 'departed'. **This causes a length-wise stripe effect of the two **colors you use. Another favorite is a round lace of **eight bows, which is exceedingly simple to make, and **produces a gorgeous spiral stripe effect. The only **challenge with that one is the width of your bow **floss/cording -- eight of them together can produce a **too-thick cord, if you're not careful. I don't think I am familiar with what you are talking about here-is this simple chain stitch "crocheting" with your fingers? Is there a resource I could look at to understand it? **As for lucet cording, can someone give me the quick **'yes/no' on whether or not it's period pre-1600, and **especially during the 14th century-on? I don't have any good references. The directions that came with mine indicated it had been around for a long time. I will have to defer to someone else who knows more than I. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 11:49:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15501 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:49:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TFbCE20115; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TFb9R14720; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TFQAR08687 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:26:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip110.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.110]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6TFQ5q21372 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:26:05 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets Message-ID: <3D44FD88.23170.22A733C3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <090101c236db$4da8efd0$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:32:08 -0700 Status: RO > Does anyone else use a lucet for ties? If you make a cord from almost > any sort of thread with a lucet, it come out round and non-stretchy, > and from what I can gather, pretty authentic. Doesn't take long to do, > just as well, as I'm about to make my corset laces from it. Aside from books stating "lucet was done during the Renaissance", I've found no evidence for lucetting in the 16th century anywhere. I've seen evidence for it in Viking times and in Victorian times, but none in between. If you have such evidence, I would *love* to see it as I really like lucetted cord. It is easy to make in long quantities and much easier to set up than fingerloop braid. June M. Russell, MD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 12:12:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16047 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:12:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TG11E23048; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TG10R28521; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TG02R27925 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZCw4-0002qY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:59:52 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification-left right X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:59:52 -0400 Status: RO Could you be thinking of this portrait "Elizabeth and the three goddesses": http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_67.jpg and this is a detail of the color version of the De Heere "Succession of Kings" portrait: http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_2.jpg Similar paintings, definately. The "Three Goddesses" portrait was painted by and unknown artist and could be a copy of the de Heere portrait. Google is your friend... :) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com > I am sure I have confused everyone now-I am even a little confused. I > think this image is reversed-it is the one I am looking for: > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/klein/420/tudrline.jpg Alison Weir has it > on the front of her "Henry VIII -The King and his Court". On the book > cover Elizabeth is entering from the left (the viewer's) left. I don't > see anyone sitting on a shirt though, but I know my image is cut off a > bit. > > > **-----Original Message----- > **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com > **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows > **Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 9:59 PM > **To: h-costume@indra.com > **Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the > **Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification > ** > ** > ** > **>The one I am looking for has Elizabeth entering from the > **right, and she > **>is wearing what looks like a brown and cream colored gown > **and robe with > **>the same/similar pattern all over the gown, bodice and robe and > **>sleeves. > ** > **Entering from the left, and on the right is someone sitting > **on a blackwork > **shirt? > ** > ** > **Kayta > ** > ** //// \\\ > ** ////-@@\\\ > ** (((( 7 ))) > ** ((( <> )))) > ** ) (((((( > **/----\ /---\)) > ** > **_______________________________________________ > **h-costume mailing list > **h-costume@mail.indra.com > **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ** > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Absence of evidence, isn't necessarily evidence of absence." -Carl Sagab _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 12:13:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16051 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:13:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TG1BE23072; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:01:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TG19R28626; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TG0xR28495 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:00:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25338.; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:01:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:00:39 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6TG0xR28495 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:00:02 +0100 Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> kat@grendal.rain.com 07/29/02 04:32pm >>> Aside from books stating "lucet was done during the >Renaissance", I've found no evidence for lucetting in the 16th >century anywhere. I've seen evidence for it in Viking times and in >Victorian times, but none in between. If you have such evidence, I >would *love* to see it as I really like lucetted cord. It is easy to >make in long quantities and much easier to set up than fingerloop >braid. Lucets are widely used over here by 17th cent. reenactors, but I don't know on what authority other than the claims of the lucet manufacturer. I too would like to know more about fingerloop braid. I was shown how to make cord on the fingers with 2 strands; the result is stretchier than lucet cord. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 12:16:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16098 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:16:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TG54E23552; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TG52R01285; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40311.mail.yahoo.com (web40311.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6TG4dR00904 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020729160433.9198.qmail@web40311.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.1.6.47] by web40311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:04:33 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?marcus=20findlay-arthur?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Stamping fabric/warning Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:04:33 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Am working myself on recreating an Indian stamped fabric technique called varak-ka-kaam. Its a method of stamping the fabric with preped linseed oil or resin and then burnishing goldleaf over the 'glue'.I couldn't get my hands on 24ct goldleaf and had to do with 23.5ct for the example I wish to exhibit at the Drachenwald A&S University this November.So keep me posted as to your efforts. Do please,please,please remember to carve the Lino in the direction AWAY from you!!!Its a great temptation to do 'just this tiny piece' and angle it in your direction.DON'T.Those cutting tools are very sharp and at art school we had endless bloody stab wounds and tips of fingers that went awol. The lino is a bit 'soft' for my liking and not anywhere as study as the Indian blocks I have in my collection as examples or the jelutung we used at school to carve.Mind you its a good bit easier to work into too which can be a blessing.Backing it once you've cut your design,with a piece of wood gives you much more heft and is more stable to use in my experience. Best of luck, Marcus/Mangal __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 12:17:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16102 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:17:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TG5BE23575; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TG59R01354; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TG4tR01216 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from post12.tele.dk (0x3ef32fb7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.183]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92519262A2A for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:04:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3D456712.73DD6837@post12.tele.dk> From: Leif Drews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gleaming silk floss and fingloop braid question: length of fingerloop braids References: <000201c2370f$41a58980$6501a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:02:27 +0200 Status: RO Dear Saragrace Excuse me for interrupting here, are you looking for shining silk floss? You have a wonderfull place in USA where you can get so many beautifull colours, i think it is the largest colour range i have ever seen: http://www.eternasilk.com/cgi-bin/ETSstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=Stranded&start=200 I use this for embroidery. I didnt catch the topic but were you talking about making fly fringe? Yesterday i got a catalog from a large needlework shop in York and they have some newly invented threads with mixed highlighted colours. It is not periodically correct, but i think you could make some gorgeous fly fringe with these threads, They call these new threads for silk "Organzine" for lace making, Marabout is another and one is called Eylash and one is called Plumetes. They have them in 9 different colour mixes. I really would like to try to make some fly fringes with these, although i have no clou how to do it, but i guess i could mix some bobbin lace with attached fringes made with finger loops. I am almost melting, we have 30 celsius in Copenhagen today! Best greetings Bjarne Saragrace knauf wrote: > **Indeed, when made with some gleaming silk floss, for > **instance, fingerloop braids can be mesmerizingly > **gorgeous. > Where do you get shiny silk floss? Everything I have seen at the fiber > stores is flat finish. Great colors, but no shine. > > **My personal favorites are the Lace Baston, > **which is the same as a basic round lace of five bows, > **except that your five bows are linked, or 'departed'. > **This causes a length-wise stripe effect of the two > **colors you use. Another favorite is a round lace of > **eight bows, which is exceedingly simple to make, and > **produces a gorgeous spiral stripe effect. The only > **challenge with that one is the width of your bow > **floss/cording -- eight of them together can produce a > **too-thick cord, if you're not careful. > > I don't think I am familiar with what you are talking about here-is this > simple chain stitch "crocheting" with your fingers? Is there a resource > I could look at to understand it? > > **As for lucet cording, can someone give me the quick > **'yes/no' on whether or not it's period pre-1600, and > **especially during the 14th century-on? > > I don't have any good references. The directions that came with mine > indicated it had been around for a long time. I will have to defer to > someone else who knows more than I. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 12:29:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16332 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:29:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TGI2E24981; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TGI1R08998; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TGHUR08663 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:17:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZDCy-0004yH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:17:20 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification-left right X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:17:20 -0400 Status: RO Actually, I discovered another site: http://www.famu.edu/acad/colleges/cas/histpol/eidahl/Spring/EUH3501Engla nd/Images/ElizabethI4.jpg (again, color detail, not full portrait) of the "Three Goddesses" and it tentatively attributes it to Hans Eworth. I believe the "Succession of Kings" portrait was also once attributed to Eworth, as well. I love Google. :) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com > Could you be thinking of this portrait "Elizabeth and the three > goddesses": http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_67.jpg > > and this is a detail of the color version of the De Heere "Succession > of Kings" portrait: http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_2.jpg > > Similar paintings, definately. The "Three Goddesses" portrait was > painted by and unknown artist and could be a copy of the de Heere > portrait. > > Google is your friend... :) > > Sarah > http://www.elizabethanlady.com > > > > I am sure I have confused everyone now-I am even a little confused. I > > think this image is reversed-it is the one I am looking for: > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/klein/420/tudrline.jpg Alison Weir has it > > on the front of her "Henry VIII -The King and his Court". On the book > > cover Elizabeth is entering from the left (the viewer's) left. I > don't > > see anyone sitting on a shirt though, but I know my image is cut off a > > bit. > > > > > > **-----Original Message----- > > **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com > > **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta > Barrows > > **Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 9:59 PM > > **To: h-costume@indra.com > > **Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the > > **Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification > > ** > > ** > > ** > > **>The one I am looking for has Elizabeth entering from the > > **right, and she > > **>is wearing what looks like a brown and cream colored gown > > **and robe with > > **>the same/similar pattern all over the gown, bodice and robe and > > **>sleeves. > > ** > > **Entering from the left, and on the right is someone sitting > > **on a blackwork > > **shirt? > > ** > > ** > > **Kayta > > ** > > ** //// \\\ > > ** ////-@@\\\ > > ** (((( 7 ))) > > ** ((( <> )))) > > ** ) (((((( > > **/----\ /---\)) > > ** > > **_______________________________________________ > > **h-costume mailing list > > **h-costume@mail.indra.com > > **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ** > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > -- > Sarah > http://www.elizabethanlady.com > "Absence of evidence, isn't necessarily evidence of absence." > -Carl > Sagab > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com "Absence of evidence, isn't necessarily evidence of absence." -Carl Sagab _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 12:56:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16839 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:55:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TGi2E28256; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TGi1R25741; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TGhDR25196 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:43:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.128] (as3-4-142.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.128]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6TGhCs00388 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2FA91063F56@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <2FA91063F56@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:15:13 -0700 Status: RO > >> Some further bits..... > >> On the gowns where it's obvious that there are buttons running at >> least part way down the front of the garment, do you think they run >> all the way down, or just partly? Also, I'm guessing that the >> buttons might be made like those cloth ones in the MoL book, >> maybe? Teddy, didn't you make a bunch of these a while ago? How > > hard were they to do? I've lost track of whether we're talking about "buttons all the way down" at some particular period. I have a sketch I made from an early 16th c. tapestry entitled "the Three Fates" at the V&A, which shows a loose, but relatively fitted woman's overgown with buttons all the way down the front (or at least all the way down to where the hem puddles). (The sleeves of this garment are relatively loose, but the sleeves of the garment _under_ it are tight and buttoned on the part that shows.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 12:56:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16843 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:56:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TGiJE28294; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:44:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TGiHR25901; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TGhGR25224 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.128] (as3-4-142.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.128]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6TGhEs00449 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020729144418.28778.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020729144418.28778.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:22:32 -0700 Status: RO At 7:44 AM -0700 7/29/02, Tasha Kelly wrote: >I've managed to make finished laces that are about 2 >to 2.5 feet long (perfect for my purposes of >spiral-lacing a close-fitting kirtle) by tying a knot >mid-way along the laces and then tying that area down >and working out from the center. Later, I undo the >knot and carefully tie another one on the edge of the >finished section, leaving the un-braided section free. >I then continue the braid out from the center going in >the other direction. This method isn't perfect, >because try as I might, there is always a small >portion of slightly loose twists where the two areas >meet in the middle, but it's hardly noticeable and >definitely disguised when in use as a lace. Interesting technique! > If you've >got a willing partner, you can make a very long, >uninterrupted fingerloop braid with their help beating >down the loops as you make each move. My somewhat limited experience has been that, with a partner to do the beating, you can not only get a much longer braid, but the tightness of the braid is _much_ more even (and tight). Even doing fairly short braids by myself, there's noticeable unevenness in the tension. My favorite beaters tend to be heavy metallic letter-openers. Enough "heft" to beat solidly without a lot of effort, and just the right "sharp but blunt" edge. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 13:03:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16876 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:03:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TGoCE29060; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TGoAR29315; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TGnfR29011 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.128] (as3-4-142.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.128]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6TGnes07474 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D44FD88.23170.22A733C3@localhost> References: <3D44FD88.23170.22A733C3@localhost> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:48:31 -0700 Status: RO At 8:32 AM -0700 7/29/02, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Does anyone else use a lucet for ties? If you make a cord from almost >> any sort of thread with a lucet, it come out round and non-stretchy, >> and from what I can gather, pretty authentic. Doesn't take long to do, >> just as well, as I'm about to make my corset laces from it. > >Aside from books stating "lucet was done during the >Renaissance", I've found no evidence for lucetting in the 16th >century anywhere. I've seen evidence for it in Viking times and in >Victorian times, but none in between. If you have such evidence, I >would *love* to see it as I really like lucetted cord. It is easy to >make in long quantities and much easier to set up than fingerloop >braid. I'm going to point out something that usually gets me accused of causing trouble -- I've seen evidence from Viking times of implements made from naturally-shaped pieces of bone with wear patterns that are not inconsistent with use as a lucet, but I've never seen direct evidence that they _were_ used as lucets. (And given the significant amounts of surviving cordage we have, it seems relevant that nobody has been able to point to any surviving medieval cordage that is clearly lucet-work.) It is a common claim that lucet-cording dates back to Viking times, but from where I stand, the jury seems to be still very much out. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 13:15:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16951 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:15:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TH1FE01089; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:01:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TH1AR06753; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40209.mail.yahoo.com (web40209.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.70]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6TH0ZR06276 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:00:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020729170030.59025.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.189.83.254] by web40209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:00:30 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207291619.g6TGJDR09724@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gleaming silk floss and fingloop braid question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:50:17 -0700 Organization: PII Subject: [h-cost] Gleaming silk floss and fingloop braid question: length of fingerloop braids Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Saragrace wrote: Where do you get shiny silk floss? Everything I have seen at the fiber stores is flat finish. Great colors, but no shine. I respond: I'm not an expert on the spinning/twisting of fiber, so bear with my explanation... I have stumbled across two general varieties of silk floss -- one that seems more filament-like, meaning that it appears to be made from straight strands of silk (untwisted), has a more muted shine, and also tends to fray easier when rubbing against something (like another piece of floss). An example of this would be Soie Crystale. The other kind is often called "perl" or "pearl" (can't remember which -- I'm at work and have no access to all my goodies!). I've heard it refered to as "buttonhole twist" also. It appears to be fine threads of silk tightly twisted and then twisted around each other again, so that you can easily see the twist in the finished floss. It looks like a very tiny rope, up close. A brand or type that I buy is called Trebizond, and it comes in small, thread-sized spools. It's very shiny, but in a luscious way, not a tacky sort of way. Trebizond is wonderful for fingerloop braiding, as it's slippery, and will not suffer from excessive fraying as you move the loops around and they rub against each other (by necessity). It's also great for decorative top-stitching on clothing. I have yet to use it for embroidery, but I suspect the width I've been using might be a tad too fat for embroidery.. However, other kinds of "pearl/perl" silk floss is probably wonderful for that. I've only ever used Soie Crystale and Soie D'Alger in my limited embroidery experience. Saragrace wrote: I don't think I am familiar with what you are talking about here-is this simple chain stitch "crocheting" with your fingers? Is there a resource I could look at to understand it? I respond: It's definitely not like crocheting. The principle idea is that you work with a combination of thread/floss loops -- each loop is held taut by a finger (or for advanced braiding, more than one loop per finger, or even two sets of hands!). One end is tied down to a stationary object, or you can use your own big toe, for instance. Then you move in a prescribed sequence to exchange loops (or bowes as they are also called) from finger to finger. The pattern is repeated as many times as necessary to make a strand of your liking. A great and easy-to-follow source for instruction and period sources is the Compleat Anachronist #108, called Fingerloop Braids. It's available here: http://www.sca.org/ca/issues.html I took a beginner's class (about 45 minutes of instruction) earlier this year and have since gone through most of the braids in the CA mentioned above and have begun using them practically in my clothing and most recently, as a medallion cord for a friend. I've also begun teaching a beginner's class and will continue to do so as much as possible, because they're easy and fun to learn, and oh-so useful. Tasha/Marcele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 13:17:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16957 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:17:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TH3fE01693; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:03:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TH3bR08548; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TH2rR08049 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:02:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H0000H7RSOPM3@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:02:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids In-reply-to: <20020729144418.28778.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020729091743.00dcd100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200207291417.g6TEH5R04694@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:26:24 -0700 Status: RO Tasha Kelly writes, in a message sent 07:44 AM 7/29/02 -0700: >Sue wrote: >I've used lucet cording for laces, as opposed to ties. > They work pretty good for lacing up bodices and >corsets and such. They have the advantage over >finger-loop braids of being able to be made to any >length >you want, although the finger-loop braids are sure >pretty..... > >I respond: >Indeed, when made with some gleaming silk floss, for >instance, fingerloop braids can be mesmerizingly >gorgeous. My personal favorites are the Lace Baston, >which is the same as a basic round lace of five bows, >except that your five bows are linked, or 'departed'. >This causes a length-wise stripe effect of the two >colors you use. Another favorite is a round lace of >eight bows, which is exceedingly simple to make, and >produces a gorgeous spiral stripe effect. The only >challenge with that one is the width of your bow >floss/cording -- eight of them together can produce a >too-thick cord, if you're not careful. I never encountered either finger-loop braiding nor lucet braid till a few years ago, so I always use a 4-strand round braid I learned at summer camp. It stays tied just fine. It can be made of any colour, fibre, or thickness, and can be worked right on the garment instead of having to be sewn on separately. Done in two colours, it can be made to spiral or to have a lengthwise stripe, and I can change the direction of spiral at any point. Done in four colours it has a Harlequin effect (different periods and uses want different colour patterns). Since it is hand-held it can be made seriously long and, if I butterfly the working threads, I can make pieces several feet long for necklaces or for piping. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 13:21:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17008 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:21:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TH43E01763; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TH41R08835; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TH2pR08015 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:02:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H0000H7RSOPM3@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:02:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification-left right In-reply-to: <000c01c2370a$3919fbc0$6501a8c0@Home> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020729091332.00dcb320@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020728215814.00ca2580@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:16:00 -0700 Status: RO >I am sure I have confused everyone now-I am even a little confused. I >think this image is reversed-it is the one I am looking for: >http://www.english.uiuc.edu/klein/420/tudrline.jpg Alison Weir has it >on the front of her "Henry VIII -The King and his Court". On the book >cover Elizabeth is entering from the left (the viewer's) left. I don't >see anyone sitting on a shirt though, but I know my image is cut off a >bit. With the one where someone is sitting on a shirt, Elizabeth enters from the left, and three goddesses, including Venus, are sitting at the left. No Henry VIII, just females. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 13:22:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17014 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:22:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TH48E01783; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TH45R08877; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TH2wR08106 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:02:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H0000H7RSOPM3@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:02:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stamping fabric/warning In-reply-to: <20020729160433.9198.qmail@web40311.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020729093016.00dad2a0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:40:03 -0700 Status: RO >The lino is a bit 'soft' for my liking and not >anywhere as sturdy as the Indian blocks I have in my >collection as examples or the jelutung we used at >school to carve.Mind you its a good bit easier to work >into too which can be a blessing.Backing it once >you've cut your design,with a piece of wood gives you >much more heft and is more stable to use in my >experience. Linoleum blocks used to be available, which were Linoleum mounted on top of a block of wood. They were exactly as tall as a piece of type used in printing presses, so you could print with them using one of those. I don't know if you can still get them, or if they are still made now that printing presses are all in museums. Also, there is a new printing block material, and some modern block-printers are using it. It's called Resingrave, invented by someone in California, and I only know about it because I read the information in the back of a block-print illustrated children's book I bought. I have no idea where to get it. I sometimes see a block-printer at craft shows, and could ask her next time I see her. (I probably should talk to her about technique anyway.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 13:34:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17082 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:34:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6THKtE05566; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THC1R14893; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THAeR13703 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0H0000G2IT13SB@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:10:15 -1000 (HST) From: annora Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gleaming silk floss and fingloop braid question: length of fingerloop braids In-reply-to: <000201c2370f$41a58980$6501a8c0@Home> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:09:12 -1000 (HST) Status: RO > I don't think I am familiar with what you are talking about here-is this > simple chain stitch "crocheting" with your fingers? Is there a resource > I could look at to understand it? Here are a few references: -The MoL textiles and clothing book has a description and some directions for one or two patterns. -If you're SCA, Compleat Anachronist #108 is on fingerloop braiding. -http://www.et-tu.com/soper-lane/pages/sunday.htm One of the pages on their site talks about fingerloop braiding and you can order a pamphlet from them about it. -http://www.duke.edu/~scg3/fingerloop.html From Phiala's String page, which has all kinds of other nifty things too. -Noemi Speiser has written several books and articles. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 13:47:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17157 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:47:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6THUFE07610; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:30:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THU3R28588; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:30:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THTUR28242 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZEKn-0002CD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:29:29 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gleaming silk floss and fingloop braid question: length of fingerloop braids Organization: PII Message-ID: <000f01c23724$1a8d1880$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <3D456712.73DD6837@post12.tele.dk> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:19:31 -0700 Status: RO Thank you for the silk source Bjarne- I am not sure I caught the conversation well either-I am not sure if they were talking about fringe or fingerloop braiding (heck for all I know they might be made using the same techniques!) We'll just have to wait and see! **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Leif Drews **Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 9:02 AM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gleaming silk floss and fingloop braid **question: length of fingerloop braids ** ** **Dear Saragrace **Excuse me for interrupting here, are you looking for shining **silk floss? You have a wonderfull place in USA where you can **get so many beautifull colours, i think it is the largest **colour range i have ever seen: **http://www.eternasilk.com/cgi-bin/ETSstore.cgi?user_action=lis t&category=Stranded&start=200 ** **I use this for embroidery. **I didnt catch the topic but were you talking about making fly **fringe? Yesterday i got a catalog from a large needlework **shop in York and they have some newly invented threads with **mixed highlighted colours. It is not periodically correct, **but i think you could make some gorgeous fly fringe with **these threads, They call these new threads for silk **"Organzine" for lace making, Marabout is another and one is **called Eylash and one is called Plumetes. They have them in 9 **different colour mixes. I really would like to try to make **some fly fringes with these, although i have no clou how to **do it, but i guess i could mix some bobbin lace with attached **fringes made with finger loops. I am almost melting, we have **30 celsius in Copenhagen today! Best greetings ** **Bjarne ** **Saragrace knauf wrote: ** **> **Indeed, when made with some gleaming silk floss, for **instance, **> fingerloop braids can be mesmerizingly **gorgeous. **> Where do you get shiny silk floss? Everything I have seen **at the fiber **> stores is flat finish. Great colors, but no shine. **> **> **My personal favorites are the Lace Baston, **> **which is the same as a basic round lace of five bows, ****except that **> your five bows are linked, or 'departed'. **This causes a **length-wise **> stripe effect of the two **colors you use. Another favorite **is a round **> lace of **eight bows, which is exceedingly simple to make, and **> **produces a gorgeous spiral stripe effect. The only **> **challenge with that one is the width of your bow **> **floss/cording -- eight of them together can produce a **> **too-thick cord, if you're not careful. **> **> I don't think I am familiar with what you are talking about here-is **> this simple chain stitch "crocheting" with your fingers? **Is there a **> resource I could look at to understand it? **> **> **As for lucet cording, can someone give me the quick **'yes/no' on **> whether or not it's period pre-1600, and **especially **during the 14th **> century-on? **> **> I don't have any good references. The directions that came **with mine **> indicated it had been around for a long time. I will have **to defer to **> someone else who knows more than I. **> **> _______________________________________________ **> h-costume mailing list **> h-costume@mail.indra.com **> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 13:47:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17161 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:47:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6THX0E08221; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:33:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THS1R27165; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THR4R26545 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZEIR-0006Nr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:27:03 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000e01c23723$c3bb24c0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Tudor Allegory Paintings: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification-left right Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:17:05 -0700 Status: RO I think Sarah has cleared it up. The "Three Goddesses" picture is very interesting and it is the one I think Kayta is referring to when she is talking about the black work shirt. The second picture Sarah has pointed to is the one I was interested in. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_2.jpg Someone's image is reversed. Not sure if it is the one on the book I referred to earlier. I too used google to try and find it, but did not have the same success you had. I kept coming up with the version where she is in a white dress or a non colored version of the one I was interested in. Thank you for finding it for me. Saragrace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 13:58:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17250 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:58:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6THhDE10189; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THh3R07174; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THgnR06981 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:42:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZEXY-00001t-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:42:40 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Allegory Paintings: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification-left right X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:42:40 -0400 Status: RO Glad to have cleared it up a little! The coolest thing would be to find full images of both pictures, but so far, google has not been helpful with that. I haven't tried looking under "Hans Eworth", which might lead somewhere. Just so long as you know you're not going crazy... ;) Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com > I think Sarah has cleared it up. The "Three Goddesses" picture is very > interesting and it is the one I think Kayta is referring to when she is > talking about the black work shirt. > > The second picture Sarah has pointed to is the one I was interested in. > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_2.jpg Someone's image is > reversed. Not sure if it is the one on the book I referred to earlier. > > > I too used google to try and find it, but did not have the same success > you had. I kept coming up with the version where she is in a white > dress or a non colored version of the one I was interested in. > > Thank you for finding it for me. > > Saragrace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 14:33:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17515 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:33:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TI9WE15706; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TI90725786; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TI7U724699 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip165.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.165]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6TI7Pq09825 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:07:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets Message-ID: <3D452352.15298.233AD879@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:13:22 -0700 Status: RO > I too would like to know more about fingerloop braid. I > was shown how to make cord on the fingers with 2 strands; the result > is stretchier than lucet cord. Fingerloop braid is easy to document. There is a late 15th Century manuscript and a 17th C manuscript, as well as extant bits and pieces. Noemi Speicer wrote a book on it (self published) as well as some other forms of braiding. Unfortunately, I don't have handy the info on these books and manuscripts so that I can give them to you right now. There was also a pamphlet on fingerloop braiding which has drawn from these sources which is actually *very* good done by the SCA as a Compleat Anachronist. I'm sure there are folks on this list who can give you more information about the specifics of ordering these. June M. Russell, MD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 14:34:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17522 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6THlaE11025; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:47:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THlTR10283; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from caerthe.org (ms1.webminders.com [216.198.228.132] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THjPR08796 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200207291348.AA35848440@caerthe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Melanie Unruh-Bays" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stamping fabric/warning X-Mailer: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:48:35 -0400 Status: RO ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:40:03 -0700 > >Linoleum blocks used to be available, which were Linoleum mounted on top of >a block of wood. They were exactly as tall as a piece of type used in >printing presses, so you could print with them using one of those. I don't >know if you can still get them, or if they are still made now that printing >presses are all in museums. I found lino blocks at a school-supply store this past weekend. If you can't get them at an art supply store, you might try there. They had a complete selection of supplies - handles, blades, brayers, and ink. After this fabric printing discussion, I was pretty happy to find them. I'm ready to experiment! Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 14:39:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17597 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:39:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6THjfE10712; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:46:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THj7R08598; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6THhaR07599 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:43:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZEYS-0000bc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:43:36 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <001001c23726$1295fe60$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Gleaming silk floss and fingloop braid question:-Thanks Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:33:36 -0700 Status: RO Thank you I will look all your suggestions and sources up! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 14:41:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17641 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:41:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TIT6E19014; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TIT5708530; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TIS0707778 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6TIX2D18514 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207291833.g6TIX2D18514@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? In-Reply-To: <000701c23687$fc164d00$6501a8c0@Home> "from Saragrace knauf at Jul 28, 2002 03:41:58 pm" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO heh. tha't's exactly how I bought MY viking #1. My community college offers serger classes, but not until next July, and I'm not waiting that long, so I'll have to get familiar with it on my own. .heather. > One more thing-consider a used machine. People buy sewing machines and > use them like motorcycles-what the heck does that mean? They sit around > and don't get used much and then they trade up. I bought my Viking #1 > from a guy who bought it for his wife. She never used it, so what does > he do? He buys her the newest high end model. I got mine at a > significant discount. Most sewing machine dealers aren't going to sell > you a bad machine-so it is a pretty safe bet. Also, take a class. > Lots of community colleges offer serger classes. It really helps you > learn how to use and take care of your machine-lots of people get > frustrated with the threading and tension, it really isn't that hard-but > it sure helps to have someone look over your shoulder to help figure out > what is going on. > > **-----Original Message----- > **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com > **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Heather Meadows > **Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:34 PM > **To: h-costume@indra.com > **Subject: [h-cost] OT: sergers, anyone? > ** > ** > ** > **I know sergers aren't period, but I do a lot of modern and > **more theatrical sewing, and I know a lot of you do, too... so > **I thought I'd ask here... > ** > **I'm hoping to buy a serger in the next month or so -- > **probably something in the $500-900 range. I've never shopped > **for one before, and I'm wondering if anyone here can > **recommend a buyers guide (say from Threads or something?) or > **wants to tell me what they love/hate about sergers they have used. > ** > **Thanks for all the advice. I can't wait to enter the great > **wide world of knits. > ** > **.heather. > ** > **_______________________________________________ > **h-costume mailing list > **h-costume@mail.indra.com > **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ** > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 16:43:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18581 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:43:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TKURE02074; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:30:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TKUA718097; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmsoutbound.mx.net (cmsrelay03.mx.net [165.212.11.112]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6TKKf712243 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uadvg132.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.132) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2002 20:20:35 -0000 Received: from uwdvg007.cms.usa.net [165.212.8.7] by uadvg132.cms.usa.net via mtad (CM.0402.2.02C) with ESMTP id 438ggCusd0507M32; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:18:29 GMT Message-ID: <20020729202030.27290.qmail@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net> Received: from 206.163.135.19 [206.163.135.19] by uwdvg007.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.0402.1.07D); Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:20:30 -0000 From: Shea Young To: Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Re: 15th century female dress] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.1.07D) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6TKKf712243 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:20:30 -0700 Status: RO I prefer searching by content. Shea Margo Anderson wrote: >... Eric said he did thisbecause it made the searhing faster, which I suppose it does if you know the exact title, but I for one found it far more convenient to be able to search by content. > > If enough people agree with me, maybe we can find a solution to the problem. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 17:50:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19097 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:50:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TLd5E09331; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TLd1728081; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TLcL727706 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:38:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZIDc-000Ja8-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:38:20 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Underarm fullness (WAS:) Early use of buttons??? References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:35:04 +0100 Status: RO Chris Laning wrote >At 9:59 AM -0600 7/27/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >>I've been trying to think of possible cuts to account for the underarm >>fullness on these garments....About the closest (visually) that I've >>been able to find in my own library (meager for the mid-middle ages), is >>the article Heather did on the St. Louis shirt in _Tournaments >>Illuminated_ relatively recently. The sleeves do seem to have a bit of >>the same full above/narrow below look that the gowns in the Codex do.... >>I've seen one version of this style (in Hunnisett's pre-1500 book), and >>she achieves it using this perfectly enormous gusset under the arm, >>which I may try in cheap fabric, just for the heck of it, but I'd rather >>go for a more periodly-plausible cut than one that's >>theatrically-plausible, if you get the distinction I'm so clumsily >>trying to make! > >The leading theory on this in the "Heather Rose Jones school of >thought" seems to be that the fullness >comes from the body of the garment -- which is cut wider than one might >expect. Most recommendations I see for T-tunics suggest you cut the >body of the garment about twice the circumference of the body of the >person. Try adding another foot or so on each side, beyond that. In a >lightweight fabric, this won't add too much to the bulk around the >waist if it's belted, but it will provide the extra width you're seeing >in the top. (I'm sure she'll correct me if I have this wrong.) > Have I been making t-tunics and dresses wrong all this time? I cut them to roughly my own size, plus enough to move in. Certainly not twice my size! If you make the body so big, how do you avoid the top of the sleeve being somewhere near your elbow? Actually, this query is semi-serious - I shall be wanting to make a loose-fit 13th century dress over the winter, and I'm looking for ideas on just this point. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 18:17:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19258 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:17:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TM62E11971; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TM60712736; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TM5D712345 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01850 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:06:06 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:06:06 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO > At 7:44 AM -0700 7/29/02, Tasha Kelly wrote: > > >I've managed to make finished laces that are about 2 > >to 2.5 feet long (perfect for my purposes of > >spiral-lacing a close-fitting kirtle) by tying a knot > >mid-way along the laces and then tying that area down > >and working out from the center. Later, I undo the > >knot and carefully tie another one on the edge of the > >finished section, leaving the un-braided section free. > >I then continue the braid out from the center going in > >the other direction. This brings to mind a process that might have a similar effect. The person who taught me how to fingerloop-braid taught me to set up by making a series of long loops, secured at the far end around a small section of thread. (The knots in each loop were at the ends around the fingers.) He then tied that small anchor thread to something solid -- e.g. a chair leg or post -- to provide something steady to hold it during the looping process. I suggested to him at the time that instead of using a small length as a holder, he might use another set of complete loops. Then, after making the braid down one side as usual, he could turn it all around and make the braid down the other side. This would in effect create two maximum-length fingerlooped cords locked together at the unknotted ends. But if I've figured out what you've written above, I think your method would be superior. If I follow you, you're saying you make the loops twice as long as you'd normally be able to work with, lay them all out in a long bunch, knot the middle, and then work from the knot to one end, then turn it around, un-knot, and work the unworked part to the other end? Theoretically that could produce an almost invisible connection, though some looping methods might work better with this than others. In any case, I never got to try the double-length hooked-together approach. I made only a couple of fingerloop braids, and then too long a period of time passed before I needed one, and I forget the method my friend taught me ;-) I will have to learn it again someday. (My friend, BTW, is Steve Bloch; I think he teaches this a lot in the SCA.) One thing I did try, with success, was to loop the cord threads not over an anchor thread, but through the large eye of a lacing needle. I then secured the threaded needle by sticking it into a dense chair cushion, at an angle, and pulled against it as I worked. This produced a cord that grew directly from the needle eye -- essentially a lacing cord with its own aiglet. I had wondered for a long time about some portraits (mostly Italian) that showed a needle hanging off the end of a lady's bodice lacing -- you could see the lacing cord go into the needle eye, but there wasn't an extra bit hanging off the other side. But if you build the cord directly onto the needle, it produces that effect. The disadvantage is you can't do a double-length this way. The short length, though, was plenty for a short Italian bodice lacing I needed. And I never lose my needle :-) Heather added: > My somewhat limited experience has been that, with a partner to do the > beating, you can not only get a much longer braid, but the tightness > of the braid is _much_ more even (and tight). Even doing fairly short > braids by myself, there's noticeable unevenness in the tension. My > favorite beaters tend to be heavy metallic letter-openers. Enough > "heft" to beat solidly without a lot of effort, and just the right > "sharp but blunt" edge. My favorite tool for similar jobs is a bookbinder's bone folder. This is a piece of bone about 8-10 inches long, fairly flat, with one pointed end and one rounded one, and slightly convex faces joining in somewhat bladelike edges. You use it to score paper for folding and to press neat folds into place. I got mine when I learned hand-done bookbinding. (That was back when you could still get folders of real bone. These days, I think, they're plastic.) I don't do any bookbinding anymore, but boy is this thing handy for turning dags and collars and linings -- the round end for rounded dags and straight turned edges, the pointed end to push out corners and angles. I glide it along the seam from the inside while ironing on the outside. I bet it would make a nice cord beater, too. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 19:00:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19501 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:00:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TMn2E15986; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TMn0704590; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TMmb704399 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r8p121.directcon.net [209.79.209.170]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6TMmHZf010112; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:48:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020729155254.00d9b7c0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Underarm fullness (WAS:) Early use of buttons??? In-Reply-To: References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:52:54 -0700 Status: RO >Have I been making t-tunics and dresses wrong all this time? I cut them >to roughly my own size, plus enough to move in. Certainly not twice my >size! If you make the body so big, how do you avoid the top of the >sleeve being somewhere near your elbow? And on those of us who are on the larger side, it would be impossible. Twice around my body plus twelve inches on either side would result in a body piece that was twelve inches *wider* than my wrist to wrist measurement. Is there a mistake somewhere? Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 19:10:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19548 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:10:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TMx2E16704; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TMx1709260; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TMwW708984 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g6TN3Z620470 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200207292303.g6TN3Z620470@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020729091743.00dcd100@mail.frys.com> "from Carolyn Kayta Barrows at Jul 29, 2002 09:26:24 am" To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO can someone describe finger loop braiding? I've never seen it and I'd love to see some photos. thanks! .heather. > Tasha Kelly writes, in a message sent 07:44 AM 7/29/02 -0700: > >Sue wrote: > >I've used lucet cording for laces, as opposed to ties. > > They work pretty good for lacing up bodices and > >corsets and such. They have the advantage over > >finger-loop braids of being able to be made to any > >length > >you want, although the finger-loop braids are sure > >pretty..... > > > >I respond: > >Indeed, when made with some gleaming silk floss, for > >instance, fingerloop braids can be mesmerizingly > >gorgeous. My personal favorites are the Lace Baston, > >which is the same as a basic round lace of five bows, > >except that your five bows are linked, or 'departed'. > >This causes a length-wise stripe effect of the two > >colors you use. Another favorite is a round lace of > >eight bows, which is exceedingly simple to make, and > >produces a gorgeous spiral stripe effect. The only > >challenge with that one is the width of your bow > >floss/cording -- eight of them together can produce a > >too-thick cord, if you're not careful. > > I never encountered either finger-loop braiding nor lucet braid till a few > years ago, so I always use a 4-strand round braid I learned at summer > camp. It stays tied just fine. It can be made of any colour, fibre, or > thickness, and can be worked right on the garment instead of having to be > sewn on separately. Done in two colours, it can be made to spiral or to > have a lengthwise stripe, and I can change the direction of spiral at any > point. Done in four colours it has a Harlequin effect (different periods > and uses want different colour patterns). Since it is hand-held it can be > made seriously long and, if I butterfly the working threads, I can make > pieces several feet long for necklaces or for piping. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 19:34:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19640 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:34:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6TNN2E18674; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TNN0720328; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6TNMZ720137 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:22:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.231.194.16]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020729232229.XQUE23732.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:22:29 +0000 Message-ID: <3D45CE3A.30809@attbi.com> From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Allegory Paintings: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification-left right References: <000e01c23723$c3bb24c0$6501a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:22:34 -0700 Status: RO This is going to be a silly questions to most, so bear with me. Is the woman who is holding Elizabeth's hand supposed to be representing one of the Goddesses (?) If not how is her clothes explained? I take this is a good example of being allegorical? Roscelin Saragrace knauf wrote: >I think Sarah has cleared it up. The "Three Goddesses" picture is very >interesting and it is the one I think Kayta is referring to when she is >talking about the black work shirt. > >The second picture Sarah has pointed to is the one I was interested in. >http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_2.jpg Someone's image is >reversed. Not sure if it is the one on the book I referred to earlier. > > >I too used google to try and find it, but did not have the same success >you had. I kept coming up with the version where she is in a white >dress or a non colored version of the one I was interested in. > >Thank you for finding it for me. > >Saragrace > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 20:37:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19973 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:37:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U0Q2E22791; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U0Q1713196; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U0PI712973 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:25:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303b ([12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020730002512.CYS221.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@c59303b> for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:25:12 +0000 Message-ID: <014001c2375f$a720f150$31baee0c@c59303b> From: "chiara" To: References: <000e01c23723$c3bb24c0$6501a8c0@Home> <3D45CE3A.30809@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:23:24 -0500 Status: RO Hey, it's historic...anyway... I have a question about how the female disco performers were able to keep they private area between their legs from looking like something vulgar. I mean, today we can see the same thing used for sci-fi shows, for example, 7 of 9, you can see a flat area. Grant it having no seam in that area helps immensely but how is the smoothness achieved? Sincerely, Chiara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 21:12:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20146 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:12:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U112E24681; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U111724564; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U10S724406 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17ZLND-0000YO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:00:27 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: Dual-Power Singers? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <1a4.5dee024.2a76a6fe@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:09:06 -0400 Status: RO All the old Singers are like that. The treadles, I mean. If they have the large fly wheel you can treadle them, and many had a motor bolted onto the back that has a belt to turn the wheel for you. No electricity? Pull the belt off the groove in the handwheel, add your treadle belt, and sew away. Singer made treadles up until the late 50s, I believe, although the latest one I own was made in the early 50s. My earliest one is a 1911. Go to flea markets and get yourself something that has the motor running a belt to the handwheel, and you are set. Or, I have a repro head here made in China in the 70s. Still good construction to it, I must admit, and you can even drop the feed dogs on that one. It is a repro model 15 sphinx decal machine. I think they are still made there, but I cannot vouch for current construction quality. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 21:13:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20156 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:13:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U121E24737; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U120724869; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U11m724811 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:01:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.40.251]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020730010143.BZSU221.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:01:43 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020729200324.0288a030@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <014001c2375f$a720f150$31baee0c@c59303b> References: <000e01c23723$c3bb24c0$6501a8c0@Home> <3D45CE3A.30809@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Nottingham Museum may close - Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:06:18 -0500 Status: RO Greetings, I have found out through the grapevine that the Nottingham Museum of Costumes and Textiles might be closed. I'm going to write them about it... Cheers, Danielle The following is forwarded from another list: The proposal that is being considered by the Nottingham city council to close the museum is found at www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/museums/forwardplan you can fill in a form there, or write to any of the following: John Jackson, Chief Executive, Nottingham City Council, The Guildhall, South Sherwood Street, Nottingham NG1 48T or Michael Williams, Director of Leisure and Community Services, Brian Ashley, Assistant Director, Libraries, Information and Museums, Hilary Wade, Museums Service Manager, all at 14 Hounds Gate, Nottingham, NG1 7BD The Nottingham Evening Post is also asking for your views at letters&poems@nottinghameveningpost.co.uk (and please include your home address). The proposal would put most of the costume and textile collections in storage, outside the city center, with some displays in the heritage sites, but the museum itself would close, the row of buildings (Georgian, medieval and Stuart) would be sold. The scattered collections would be more difficult to access, being further from the rail link (this museum is in walking distance of the train station -- the others require a car). Nottingham would lose a popular museum, with over 1 million visitors, though without the volume of some of the other museums. It is for specialists, and so is not quite the draw some others might be. The 6 period rooms with displays of clothing in context would be destroyed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 21:33:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20305 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U1M2E25652; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U1M0700989; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U1Lf700890 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0H0100K4YFRHCQ@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:21:17 -1000 (HST) From: annora In-reply-to: <20020729202030.27290.qmail@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: Subject: [h-cost] Re: archives and holed buttons Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:20:12 -1000 (HST) Status: RO > I prefer searching by content. > > Margo Anderson wrote: > >... Eric said he did thisbecause it made the searhing faster, which I suppose > it does if you know the exact title, but I for one found it far more > convenient to be able to search by content. > > > > If enough people agree with me, maybe we can find a solution to the problem. I would also like to be able to search by content. For example, recently someone asked about buttons with holes, not shanks. A year or so ago on this (or maybe the SCA garb?) list, someone gave a link to a site with a picture and a tiny bit of information about a medieval flat button with holes in it. IIRC, I thought it was credible information at the time--a site linked to some museum or archaeological dig or something like that, although I may be misremembering. I think it was 15th century English or French but that is very possibly wrong too. Anyway, tried searching through the archive titles under "button" but couldn't find it. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 21:58:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20494 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:58:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U1l2E26933; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U1l1708400; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U1kE708186 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 6.a4.29a1c0b6 (1324) for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:46:04 -0400 (EDT) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Dual-Power Singers? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a4.29a1c0b6.2a7749dc_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:46:04 EDT Status: RO --part1_a4.29a1c0b6.2a7749dc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I've never heard of it, but there are folks out there that collect > > sewing machines. I bet there is even a history on them lurking around. > > I can't believe that you wouldn't be able to confirm it with Singer. > I didn't have much luck on the Singer website, but that's probably just products for the US market. I'll see if I can narrow down the dates a bit and e-mail them. Leah --part1_a4.29a1c0b6.2a7749dc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    >
I've never heard of it, but there are folks out there that collect
> sewing machines.  I bet there is even a history on them lurking around.
> I can't believe that you wouldn't be able to confirm it with Singer.


I didn't have much luck on the Singer website, but that's probably just products for the US market.  I'll see if I can narrow down the dates a bit and e-mail them.

Leah --part1_a4.29a1c0b6.2a7749dc_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 22:38:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20678 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:38:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U2R2E29491; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U2R1720854; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40201.mail.yahoo.com (web40201.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6U2QS720741 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:26:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730022622.13137.qmail@web40201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.48.71] by web40201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:26:22 PDT From: Tasha Kelly To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207300148.g6U1m5708767@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: fingerloop mania Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Robin wrote: > Theoretically that could produce an almost invisible > connection, though > some looping methods might work better with this > than others. Yes, your described method is almost exactly the same, except for the particular way the loops are secured in the middle. The end result sounds exactly the same. I think if I had a second person to beat down the floss at the very beginning of the second braid coming out of the center, I could eliminate the mild looseness at that point... Hhhmmm... > (My friend, > BTW, is Steve Bloch; I think he teaches this a lot > in the SCA.) Something else in common (besides love of historical clothing)... He also taught me. Great teacher. -Tasha/Marcele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 23:05:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20840 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:05:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U2s2E00976; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U2s0728084; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U2rJ727889 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net16sp104.directcon.net [209.233.107.104]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g6U2qv5a023387; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:52:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020729195731.00d9ed80@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question In-Reply-To: <014001c2375f$a720f150$31baee0c@c59303b> References: <000e01c23723$c3bb24c0$6501a8c0@Home> <3D45CE3A.30809@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:57:31 -0700 Status: RO At 07:23 PM 07/29/2002 -0500, chiara wrote: >Hey, it's historic...anyway... > >I have a question about how the female disco performers were able to keep >they private area between their legs from looking like something vulgar. I >mean, today we can see the same thing used for sci-fi shows, for example, 7 >of 9, you can see a flat area. Grant it having no seam in that area helps >immensely but how is the smoothness achieved? I know! I know! I worked as a dresser on a production called "Hotter and Hotter" (that should give you an idea) at a casino showroom. Most of the costumes were G-string styles, and, it being 1979, there was an obligatory Disco number. First, all dancers, male and female, wear an underwear version of a G-string under their costumes. the female version was a triangle, about 4" at the wide end and 6"-8" long, and had flesh colored elastic straps that went around the hips, like a modern thong. They were usually made of cotton, and most of the girls had them in silly novelty prints. Over the underwear G-string went the costume G-string, which might be made of flimsy looking fabric like satin, but it was made like most theatrical costumes, flatlined with sturdy fabric, either knit or woven depending on the need. Some of them seemed to have been interlined with an additional layer of something cushiony, like a thin fleece. Given the several layers of fabric and a careful, customized fit, the crotches of these outfits looked nice and smooth. I've also heard that acrobats and circus performers used to (and may still) wear a small pad in the G-string to avoid the "camel toe" problem under the knitted tights that used to be the standard costume. Okay, I got this from a novel, but it seemed to be very well researched on other matters so I wouldn't rule it out. For those interested, the book is "Spangle" by Gary Jennings, and I highly recommend it. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 23:46:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21143 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:46:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U3Z3E03857; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:35:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U3Z0710641; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U3Ye710480 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZNmQ-0007JG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:34:40 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question Organization: PII Message-ID: <000201c23778$72ee0580$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020729195731.00d9ed80@pop.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:23:12 -0700 Status: RO This reminded me of some neighbors I had in San Diego. They were the costumers for a local Drag show. We used to go see the shows all the time (They were the best Drag shows I have ever seen and I've seen 'em from Sydney to San Francisco, to Boston.) One night a buddy of mine asked during the 'Q&A' session "Where they put it?" The guy was great (He was dressed like Diana Ross at the time). He just said "Away honey, Away!" Ah the old Navy days...... Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jul 29 23:54:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21187 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:54:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U3h7E04249; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U3h0713386; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U3g0712784 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZNtX-0000ce-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:41:59 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000301c23779$77330cc0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <20020730022622.13137.qmail@web40201.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Great Place to look at art and artifacts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:30:33 -0700 Status: RO In my quest for an image these last few days I came across this site. You have to register to get permission to view the site, but they let me in, so ...... They have paintings etc. but also artifacts like QE buskins, and Henry VIII's stirrups etc. Very cool. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 00:56:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21433 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:56:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U4j3E07613; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U4j1701648; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U4iv701620 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2230.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.230]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29527 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:44:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3D461810.440DF3AE@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Ribbon ties, was Re: [h-cost] Dorset buttons? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:37:37 -0400 Status: RO Hi. There has even been the conjecture that the cords were pushed through the fabric with the aid of a bodkin at the cuffs, and the cord left in place with no buttonholes at all. Not having the opportunity to see many original pieces, or looking carefully at that detail when I did, I can't say how proper this is. On the smock on display at the MoL during the London Bodies exhibit, I don't remember there even being a tie at the wrists. Perhaps shirts were made so that they were wide enough to admit a hand passing through. The Gustav Adolf shirt seems to be like this, but I have only seen it in photos. (Livrustkammarenmuseet, Sweden dated around 1627) > Out of curiosity (and having some spare time because our library housekeeping system is down) I looked up some links from Drea's site giving instructions for Elizabethan smocks. All use drawstrings except one which says "attach ribbons or tapes for ties". > Drawstrings have been discussed at length on this list, and the consensus seems to be that they were not usual before the 18th century, but they're still commonly seen in readymade reenactors' garments. I bought a linen shift this spring which has them. It's very big, so I may cut off the ends of the sleeves to make cuffs. I'm charmed by the idea of a separate ribbon threaded through buttonholes; so much more practical for washing than having dangling tapes. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 01:06:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21475 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:06:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U4t5E08193; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U4t2704359; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U4sZ704201 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2230.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.230]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07574 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:54:27 -0400 Message-ID: <3D461A52.25C973@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:47:15 -0400 Status: RO Hi. I only have the copy printed in 1953, which only has eighteen plates. If the new one has more illos, I am interested. Could you post the info, please? Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 01:23:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21521 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:23:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U5C3E09060; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U5C1709336; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U5Bm709281 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2230.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.230]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26542 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:11:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3D461E5B.31E543E7@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids References: <200207292303.g6TN3Z620470@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:04:28 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. Tasha, it may be incorrect, at it is not my primary period of interest, but I believe the Jorvik Viking museum shows a tool that is conjectured to be a lucet tool in it's collection. If this is correct, lucetting goes back to this point, and so is possibly applicable to later periods, providing the practice didn't die out and re-emerge later, which is always possible. I have done some finger-loop braiding, but not having original textile fragments to compare, it would be hard for me to say whether something was fingerloop braided or lucetted, although a person doing both a lot would probably know better. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 01:47:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21605 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:47:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U5a2E10096; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U5a0715375; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U5ZE715205 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2044.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.44]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20649 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:35:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3D4623C6.A7F5324B@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? References: <20020729080218.9748.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:27:34 -0400 Status: RO Hi, Nicole. The illo is one of a series of craftsmen showing their trades, and was pointed out to me by someone else on the list. Agreed, I don't believe that it shows buttons with holes in them, but that was the conjecture of our conversation at the time. I am searching for the illo, as I thought it was in one book, but is not. I think Stuart Peachey may have used it in one of his monographs on Clothing in the 17th Cent., as the illo is about 1640, IIRC. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 01:51:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21636 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:51:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U5dGE10251; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U5dD716224; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:39:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U5co716092 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:38:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2044.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.44]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13871 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:38:43 -0400 Message-ID: <3D4624B0.3DBDE146@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> <3D44D856.390F52B9@dandy.net> <3D4538C8.13F26E97@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:31:29 -0400 Status: RO Ah, got it, Sue!! Sorry if I sounded a little confused. BTW, Nicole, which illos show the Dorset-type bottons? Hopefully they are early enough for most of my area of interest, although we are doing some earlier colonial stuff too. Thanks, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 03:14:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30686 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:14:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U734E15203; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U731708689; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6U727708530 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:02:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730070206.88954.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:02:06 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D4624B0.3DBDE146@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:02:06 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- leigh tartaglio wrote: > Ah, got it, Sue!! Sorry if I sounded a little confused. BTW, Nicole, which > illos > show the Dorset-type bottons? Hopefully they are early enough for most of my > area > of interest, although we are doing some earlier colonial stuff too. Thanks, > Mike T. Several in my picture folders, sorry i don't have time to go through it and note down the painters' names. Though there is the exhibition catalogue of Kupecky (Kupetzky) that I mentioned earlier, this painter shows lots of buttons of this type in his portraits from the 1690s onwards. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 03:36:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23460 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:35:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U7O9E15875; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U7O1713686; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6U7Nm713617 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730072345.38362.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:23:45 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D4623C6.A7F5324B@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:23:45 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- leigh tartaglio wrote: > Hi, Nicole. The illo is one of a series of craftsmen showing their trades, > and was > pointed out to me by someone else on the list. Agreed, I don't believe that > it > shows buttons with holes in them, but that was the conjecture of our > conversation > at the time. I am searching for the illo, as I thought it was in one book, > but is > not. I think Stuart Peachey may have used it in one of his monographs on > Clothing > in the 17th Cent., as the illo is about 1640, IIRC. I might have the Peachy one somewhere buried, but I can't remmeber this image, will have a look, someday.... :-0 Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 03:47:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07899 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U7ZhE16271; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:35:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U7Zg716342; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6U7Vf715350 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730073140.60450.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:31:40 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D461E5B.31E543E7@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:31:40 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- leigh tartaglio wrote: > Hi, All. Tasha, it may be incorrect, at it is not my primary period of > interest, > but I believe the Jorvik Viking museum shows a tool that is conjectured to > be a > lucet tool in it's collection. If this is correct, lucetting goes back to > this > point, and so is possibly applicable to later periods, providing the practice > didn't die out and re-emerge later, which is always possible. I have done > some > finger-loop braiding, but not having original textile fragments to compare, > it > would be hard for me to say whether something was fingerloop braided or > lucetted, although a person doing both a lot would probably know better. > Mike > T. I'm just a bit dubious about its use in the 17th c., and agree here with (Kayta? Kat? Kate? Sorry gals, it was one of you but I am bad with names) that I haven't come across a reference, nor a lucet, nor an image of it or the lucetting nor a lucet cord. I'd be happy to know if there is something that I missed, because it would be SO convenient to use the lucet. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 04:38:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29963 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:38:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U8QPE19035; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:26:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U8QM728563; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:26:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U8Fa726160 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:15:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb03la (unverified [10.1.200.104]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:11:25 -0700 thread-index: AcI3oLKPkI93UKD/T1Kmgfli6rnQxA== Thread-Topic: Authenticity of Lucets From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Message-ID: <00b301c237a0$b28fd1a0$0ec8a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C23766.0630F9A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Authenticity of Lucets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:11:24 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C23766.0630F9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From my sources, I understand lucets to have been used to make ties and laces for all sorts of things from the Tenth century right up until the Nineteenth century. It was one of those crafts that disappeared without trace as soon as industrialisation started to produce cords and laces quickly and cheaply. _As far as I'm aware_, it's period for everything. Freyalyn, pretty certain but prepared to listen to a good argument..... _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C23766.0630F9A0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From my sources, I understand lucets to have been used to make ties and laces for all sorts of things from the Tenth century right up until the Nineteenth century. It was one of those crafts that disappeared without trace as soon as industrialisation started to produce cords and laces quickly and cheaply. _As far as I'm aware_, it's period for everything.

Freyalyn, pretty certain but prepared to listen to a good argument.....


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------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C23766.0630F9A0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 04:56:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA30051 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:56:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U8ivE19751; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U8it702855; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U8ae701165 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H01000LKZX1E8@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:36:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Allegory Paintings: Lucas De Heere Allegory of the Tudor Sucession-color source-clarification-left right In-reply-to: <3D45CE3A.30809@attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020730013223.00d31830@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <000e01c23723$c3bb24c0$6501a8c0@Home> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:33:33 -0700 Status: RO >This is going to be a silly questions to most, so bear with me. Is the >woman who is holding Elizabeth's hand supposed to be representing one of >the Goddesses (?) If not how is her clothes explained? I take this is a >good example of being allegorical? Elizabeth leads in Peace, in the 'person' of the relevant goddess, while Mary leads in War, in the 'person' of Mars. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 05:14:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA30104 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 05:14:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U92XE20920; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U91N707711; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6U8qg705614 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:52:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730085241.83136.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:52:41 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Great Place to look at art and artifacts To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000301c23779$77330cc0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:52:41 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Saragrace knauf wrote: > In my quest for an image these last few days I came across this site. > You have to register to get permission to view the site, but they let me > in, so ...... > > They have paintings etc. but also artifacts like QE buskins, and Henry > VIII's stirrups etc. Very cool. Uhm... saragrace, there are three ways of registering, when I went for the 'academic research' one I was directed to a different site and I just couldn't get them to show me pictures. Am I dumb? *G* probably, and too hot. :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 05:15:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA30111 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 05:15:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U93SE20984; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:03:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U93R708223; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:03:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U8rv706117 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb04la (unverified [10.1.200.106]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:49:45 -0700 thread-index: AcI3pg3qXYbk/nO5S9q0AaTCWmnk2g== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question Message-ID: <002801c237a6$0dea1a60$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2376B.618B4260" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:49:45 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2376B.618B4260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I assumed the original question related to the female anatomy, ie Seven of Nine. I always assumed the lack of texture/no visible crease was achieved by total depilation and firm fabric knickers! Freyalyn, who is watching the diving/swimming in the Commonwealth Games on telly at the moment, and is amazed by the complete lack of all except head hair and eyebrows on both male and female competitors. I mean, I sort of knew it before, but I've _really_ noticed it this time. No hair. Anywhere! _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > > From: Saragrace knauf > Sent: 7/30/2002 4:25:12 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question > > This reminded me of some neighbors I had in San Diego. They were the > costumers for a local Drag show. We used to go see the shows all the > time (They were the best Drag shows I have ever seen and I've seen 'em > from Sydney to San Francisco, to Boston.) One night a buddy of mine > asked during the 'Q&A' session "Where they put it?" The guy was great > (He was dressed like Diana Ross at the time). He just said "Away honey, > Away!" > > Ah the old Navy days...... > > Sg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2376B.618B4260 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I assumed the original question related to the female anatomy, ie Seven of Nine. I always assumed the lack of texture/no visible crease was achieved by total depilation and firm fabric knickers!

Freyalyn, who is watching the diving/swimming in the Commonwealth Games on telly at the moment, and is amazed by the complete lack of all except head hair and eyebrows on both male and female competitors. I mean, I sort of knew it before, but I've _really_ noticed it this time. No hair. Anywhere!


_______________________________________________________________
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<-----Original Message----->
>
> From: Saragrace knauf
> Sent: 7/30/2002 4:25:12 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: RE: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question
>
> This reminded me of some neighbors I had in San Diego. They were the
> costumers for a local Drag show. We used to go see the shows all the
> time (They were the best Drag shows I have ever seen and I've seen 'em
> from Sydney to San Francisco, to Boston.) One night a buddy of mine
> asked during the 'Q&A' session "Where they put it?" The guy was great
> (He was dressed like Diana Ross at the time). He just said "Away honey,
> Away!"
>
> Ah the old Navy days......
>
> Sg
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2376B.618B4260-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 05:35:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA30148 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 05:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U9O9E21620; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U9O6707082; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6U9BZ710247 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730091134.40742.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:11:34 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002801c237a6$0dea1a60$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:11:34 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- freyalyn wrote: > > Freyalyn, who is watching the diving/swimming in the Commonwealth Games > on telly at the moment, and is amazed by the complete lack of all except > head hair and eyebrows on both male and female competitors. I mean, I > sort of knew it before, but I've _really_ noticed it this time. No hair. > Anywhere! *snigger* Well... when I was 17 I had a boyfriend who was an Olympic silver medallist in butterfly swimming. I can vouch for that NO hair before competitions, but hell when it grows back and gets stubbly and so much chlorine embedded in the skin that no matter how much showering, when it got warm the scent of chlorine from his skin permeated everything (but oh my that body *dares a dreamy sigh*) Obligatory costume content: Trying to make costumes (coats) for athletic swimmers is a royal pain because of their highly developed lateral muscles in the back, in fact, you just can't make them look 'period' at least not the snug fitting wide skirted coats of the period I'm doing. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 06:00:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30239 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:00:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U9mWE22375; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:48:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U9mR717218; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U9aQ714335 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKPBBYZEJ4001BSK@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:36:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKPBBYEKTK001GIM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:36:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:32:07 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:31:19 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.84) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:31:09 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question In-reply-to: <200207300148.g6U1mA708793@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3122D744ABD@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:31:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Hey, it's historic...anyway... > > I have a question about how the female disco performers were able > to keep they private area between their legs from looking like > something vulgar. I mean, today we can see the same thing used for > sci-fi shows, for example, 7 of 9, you can see a flat area. Grant > it having no seam in that area helps immensely but how is the > smoothness achieved? Tight lycra, I would assume. If you get the heavier stuff that used to be referred to as "stretch satin" it does one hell of a job at smoothing and holding in. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 06:09:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30295 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:09:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6U9vPE22605; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:57:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U9vN719303; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6U9mS717219 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKPBQRPIHS001K4C@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:48:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKPBQP6PDQ001GRK@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:48:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:44:01 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:43:16 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.84) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:43:12 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity of Lucets In-reply-to: <200207300915.g6U9FL711513@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <312607D2533@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:43:12 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > From my sources, I understand lucets to have been used to make ties > and laces for all sorts of things from the Tenth century right up > until the Nineteenth century. It was one of those crafts that > disappeared without trace as soon as industrialisation started to > produce cords and laces quickly and cheaply. _As far as I'm aware_, > it's period for everything. > > Freyalyn, pretty certain but prepared to listen to a good > argument..... But, Freyalyn, what *are* your sources? Share them with us so we can see/read them for ourselves as it doesn't seem like anyone else on-list can point to a picture, a period-written description, or a surviving piece of cord can be positively identified as lucet. Even the finds of the Viking era tools are only *conjectured* to be for lucet cord. Teddy Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 06:33:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30407 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UALcE23605; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:21:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UALY725418; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:21:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10305.mail.yahoo.com (web10305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.83]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6UADk723303 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:14:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730101328.3156.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.7.128.135] by web10305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:13:28 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207290016.g6T0GDO27834@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1850107423-1028024008=:3114" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: UK online supplier for millinery wire? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:13:28 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1850107423-1028024008=:3114 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I'm looking for the white bound millinery wire. does anyone know where to get >it in the UK, preferrably online? You know how much I dislike shopping.... :-) >Thanks >Nicole Have you tried MacCulloch and Wallis (London)? You can't buy online (website not set up for it), but they do mail order via a catalogue. Debbie (apologising if somebody else has already answered this, because she has a backlog of digests and is reading them in order!!!) --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1850107423-1028024008=:3114 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



>I'm looking for the white bound millinery wire. does anyone know where to get
>it in the UK, preferrably online? You know how much I dislike shopping.... :-)

>Thanks
>Nicole

Have you tried MacCulloch and Wallis (London)?  You can't buy online (website not set up for it), but they do mail order via a catalogue. 

Debbie (apologising if somebody else has already answered this, because she has a backlog of digests and is reading them in order!!!)


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1850107423-1028024008=:3114-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 06:53:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30475 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:53:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UAfrE24206; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UAfp729918; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:41:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UALQ725388 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=99main.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZU85-0003te-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:21:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3D466863.10702@99main.com> From: Marilyn Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 70's disco costume question References: <20020730091134.40742.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:20:19 -0400 Status: RO Then there are those like my uhusband who have alopecia totalis - absolutely no hair anywhere - not even eyelashes and nose hairs... The navy makes then exercise, and my husband was a swimmer in high school, so he opted to swim every day...so he smells like chlorine too ;-) [but he never has to worry about stubble growing back, but he really deos miss his nose hairs and eyelashes ;-(] margali the quote starts here: > > *snigger* Well... when I was 17 I had a boyfriend who was an Olympic silver > medallist in butterfly swimming. I can vouch for that NO hair before > competitions, but hell when it grows back and gets stubbly and so much chlorine > embedded in the skin that no matter how much showering, when it got warm the > scent of chlorine from his skin permeated everything (but oh my that body > *dares a dreamy sigh*) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 07:00:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA30494 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UAmSE24386; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UAmP701511; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10301.mail.yahoo.com (web10301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.79]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6UAaV728792 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730103628.7102.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.7.128.135] by web10301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:36:28 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207300915.g6U9FL711513@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-405238067-1028025388=:6362" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kirby Hall Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:36:28 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-405238067-1028025388=:6362 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For anyone interested, full info for visitors to History in Action at Kirby Hall can be found on English Heritage's website (www.english-heritage.org.uk). To get to the right page, click on 'places to visit and events' at the top, then 'special events' at the side, then 'history in action' at the side. As Nicole's already mentioned, to attend as a participant you have to be a paid up member of an invited group, as they'll be checking membership cards at the gates. Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-405238067-1028025388=:6362 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

For anyone interested, full info for visitors to History in Action at Kirby Hall can be found on English Heritage's website (www.english-heritage.org.uk).  To get to the right page, click on 'places to visit and events' at the top, then 'special events' at the side, then 'history in action' at the side.

As Nicole's already mentioned, to attend as a participant you have to be a paid up member of an invited group, as they'll be checking membership cards at the gates.

Debbie.

 


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-405238067-1028025388=:6362-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 07:05:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA30510 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:05:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UAs5E24529; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UAs2702795; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6UATQ727136 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:29:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730102925.73983.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:29:25 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: UK online supplier for millinery wire? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020730101328.3156.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:29:25 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Debbie Lough wrote: > > Have you tried MacCulloch and Wallis (London)? You can't buy online (website > not set up for it), but they do mail order via a catalogue. > > Debbie (apologising if somebody else has already answered this, because she > has a backlog of digests and is reading them in order!!!) Thanks ever so much Debbie, but the problem is I am not sure what it is called that I want (I know what it looks like though :-), it just says 'wires' on their page. Gosh I wish they realised it is the 21st century and did online shopping! BTW Debbie, are you going to ahve some buttons for Kirby and how do I find you just in case I can't make it out of our encampment during the day? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 07:51:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA30708 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UBdfE26277; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 05:39:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UBda712815; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 05:39:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UBMx709303 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 05:22:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from arweb02la (unverified [10.1.201.102]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:18:46 -0700 thread-index: AcI3ut8+wZ1jnQ7IRJqFzm3RLLVEDA== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Authenticity of Lucets From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity of Lucets Message-ID: <02c101c237ba$df3e6c10$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02C2_01C23780.32DF9410" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:18:46 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02C2_01C23780.32DF9410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teddy, you're quite right, I'll have to go home and check but I think I may find it harder that I thought. It's something I've "known" for so long I've forgotten where I've known it from. And again, like so many textile things in archaeology, who's going to keep a grotty old wooden tool when it's worn out - it's the sort of thing that gets chucked in the fire rather than the midden. I'm coming to to Kirby Hall - a long drive and expensive day out, but I deserve it. Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_02C2_01C23780.32DF9410 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teddy, you're quite right, I'll have to go home and check but I think I may find it harder that I thought. It's something I've "known" for so long I've forgotten where I've known it from.

And again, like so many textile things in archaeology, who's going to keep a grotty old wooden tool when it's worn out - it's the sort of thing that gets chucked in the fire rather than the midden.

I'm coming to to Kirby Hall - a long drive and expensive day out, but I deserve it.

Freyalyn
_______________________________________________________________
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------=_NextPart_000_02C2_01C23780.32DF9410-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 08:42:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31073 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:42:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UCV3E27957; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UCV1724638; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web10306.mail.yahoo.com (web10306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6UCU0724403 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730123000.83649.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.140.122.13] by web10306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:30:00 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Debbie=20Lough?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207272127.g6RLRC428821@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1123722084-1028032200=:82414" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1117 - 14 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:30:00 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --0-1123722084-1028032200=:82414 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Can you tell me if Zwemmer's or Ian Shipley are still on Charing Cross >Road? They were the two best art bookstores I found, but that was some >years ago. >--Robin As far as I know they are - although I haven't been to either in quite a while. I'm more likely to hit Foyles, because I can do the costume/crafts/art sections while my boyfriend does military history! Just realized, though, I forgot to mention R.D. Franks - the specialist fashion bookshop! They do all sorts of books, magazines, catalogues, etc, on virtually all areas of fashion, costume and textiles (modern and historic). They even sell tailoring supplies! They're at Kent House, Market Place, off Oxford Street. Debbie. --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1123722084-1028032200=:82414 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>Can you tell me if Zwemmer's or Ian Shipley are still on Charing Cross
>Road? They were the two best art bookstores I found, but that was some
>years ago.

>--Robin


As far as I know they are - although I haven't been to either in quite a while.  I'm more likely to hit Foyles, because I can do the costume/crafts/art sections while my boyfriend does military history!

Just realized, though, I forgot to mention R.D. Franks - the specialist fashion bookshop!  They do all sorts of books, magazines, catalogues, etc, on virtually all areas of fashion, costume and textiles (modern and historic).  They even sell tailoring supplies!  They're at Kent House, Market Place, off Oxford Street.

Debbie.


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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_storage.html --0-1123722084-1028032200=:82414-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 09:47:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31619 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UDa4E01239; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UDa1e12537; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UDRc710247 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06393 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:28:26 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1117 - 14 msgs In-Reply-To: <20020730123000.83649.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:28:26 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Debbie Lough wrote: > Just realized, though, I forgot to mention R.D. Franks - the > specialist fashion bookshop! They do all sorts of books, magazines, > catalogues, etc, on virtually all areas of fashion, costume and > textiles (modern and historic). They even sell tailoring supplies! > They're at Kent House, Market Place, off Oxford Street. Oh, God, yes! I forgot, because I bought very little when I went there -- at that time I already owned most of the published material on medieval clothing. (Most of what I buy now is art books.) But for anyone who isn't already stocked up, and especially for people in later periods, Franks is indispensible. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 09:51:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31635 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:51:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UDe3E01566; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UDe1e14157; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf01bis.bellsouth.net (mail301.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.161]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UDdHe13895 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sgrochoski ([66.20.170.217]) by imf01bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20020730134044.OKHS19924.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@sgrochoski> for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:40:44 -0400 Message-ID: <006e01c237ce$1c432bb0$d9aa1442@sgrochoski> From: "Apollonia Margherita" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1117 - 14 msgs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:36:26 -0400 Status: RO Any chance they have a website? Apollonia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1117 - 14 msgs > > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, [iso-8859-1] Debbie Lough wrote: > > > Just realized, though, I forgot to mention R.D. Franks - the > > specialist fashion bookshop! They do all sorts of books, magazines, > > catalogues, etc, on virtually all areas of fashion, costume and > > textiles (modern and historic). They even sell tailoring supplies! > > They're at Kent House, Market Place, off Oxford Street. > > Oh, God, yes! I forgot, because I bought very little when I went there -- > at that time I already owned most of the published material on medieval > clothing. (Most of what I buy now is art books.) But for anyone who isn't > already stocked up, and especially for people in later periods, Franks is > indispensible. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 11:20:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32165 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:20:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UF94E11330; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UF92D28330; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UF7ID27298 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:07:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZYak-00042l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:07:18 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Great Place to look at art and artifacts Organization: PII Message-ID: <001701c237d9$6d3f6fa0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <20020730085241.83136.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:57:28 -0700 Status: RO I don't remember exactly how I registered-did you end up with a password? I know before I registered it would not let me add items to a portfolio to view and the number of items on a like search dramatically increased after I registered. (Their cataloging could use some serious help). I am a little baffled by the site. If it doesn't cost anything, why the registration? And it wouldn't appear that they sell the images. I wrote them an email to ask those questions, but have not heard back from them. Do you know where they are physically located? **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of N Kipar **Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:53 AM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: Re: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Great Place **to look at art and artifacts ** ** ** --- Saragrace knauf wrote: > In my **quest for an image these last few days I came across this site. **> You have to register to get permission to view the site, **but they let **> me in, so ...... **> **> They have paintings etc. but also artifacts like QE **buskins, and Henry **> VIII's stirrups etc. Very cool. ** **Uhm... saragrace, there are three ways of registering, when I **went for the 'academic research' one I was directed to a **different site and I just couldn't get them to show me **pictures. Am I dumb? *G* probably, and too hot. :-) ** **Nicole ** **===== **Nicole Kipar M.A. **Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs **Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 **URL: http://www.kipar.org/ **Email: marquis@kipar.org ** **__________________________________________________ **Do You Yahoo!? **Everything you'll ever need on one web page **from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts **http://uk.my.yahoo.com **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 11:30:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32263 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:30:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UFICE12369; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:18:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UFI5D03731; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:18:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6UFH9D03076 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:17:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26544 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2002 15:17:09 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2002 15:17:09 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-102-19.sonic.net [209.148.102.19] (may be forged)) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g6UFH8104908 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:17:08 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D46AF17.DBB3090B@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Great Place to look at art and artifacts References: <001701c237d9$6d3f6fa0$6501a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:21:59 -0700 Status: RO I can't even get the page to load, in either Netscape or Explorer. I just get a blank window. Any hints? Fran Saragrace knauf wrote: > I don't remember exactly how I registered-did you end up with a > password? I know before I registered it would not let me add items to > a portfolio to view and the number of items on a like search > dramatically increased after I registered. (Their cataloging could use > some serious help). > > I am a little baffled by the site. If it doesn't cost anything, why the > registration? And it wouldn't appear that they sell the images. I > wrote them an email to ask those questions, but have not heard back from > them. Do you know where they are physically located? > > ** > ** > ** --- Saragrace knauf wrote: > In my > **quest for an image these last few days I came across this site. > **> You have to register to get permission to view the site, > **but they let > **> me in, so ...... > **> > **> They have paintings etc. but also artifacts like QE > **buskins, and Henry > **> VIII's stirrups etc. Very cool. > ** > **Uhm... saragrace, there are three ways of registering, when I > **went for the 'academic research' one I was directed to a > **different site and I just couldn't get them to show me > **pictures. Am I dumb? *G* probably, and too hot. :-) > ** > **Nicole > ** > --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 12:15:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32632 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:15:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UG3CE18172; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UG37V01432; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:03:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UG2hV01181 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip234.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.234]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6UG2cq10140 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:02:38 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Message-ID: <3D46576E.25061.27EE92E3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3D461E5B.31E543E7@dandy.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:07:58 -0700 Status: RO > Hi, All. Tasha, it may be incorrect, at it is not my primary period of > interest, but I believe the Jorvik Viking museum shows a tool that is > conjectured to be a lucet tool in it's collection. If this is correct, > lucetting goes back to this point, and so is possibly applicable to > later periods, providing the practice didn't die out and re-emerge > later, which is always possible. This is apparently what it did: die out shortly after the Viking period (if the devices *are* lucets as we suppose, although they don't look like modern or Victorian lucets.) They started up again in the Victorian period (when so many "lost" crafts were started up again or devised anew and said to be "recovered" from the past.) I have done some finger-loop > braiding, but not having original textile fragments to compare, it > would be hard for me to say whether something was fingerloop braided > or lucetted, although a person doing both a lot would probably know > better. The structure of a lucet cord and a fingerloop braid cord is *very* different. Any competent textile archeologist should be able to tell the difference, especially if there is any raveled end. You see, there is only one (usually) thread coming off each end of a lucetted cord, but there is always a whole lot of them on each end of a fingerloop braid. Now, telling the difference between a fingerloop braid and a braided cord would be much more difficult, because there are similarities in the braid structure but major differences in the way it is produced. June M. Russell, MD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 13:41:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00818 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:41:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UHUEE00224; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UHUBV06947; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:30:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [66.234.169.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UHTCV04356 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200207301220.AA1008337102@mail.wireweb.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Alexandria Doyle" X-Sender: To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids X-Mailer: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:20:05 -0500 Status: RO > >> Hi, All. Tasha, it may be incorrect, at it is not my primary period of>> interest, but I believe the Jorvik Viking museum shows a tool that is>> conjectured to be a lucet tool in it's collection. If this is correct,>> lucetting goes back to this point, and so is possibly applicable to>> later periods, providing the practice didn't die out and re-emerge>> later, which is always possible. > >This is apparently what it did: die out shortly after the Viking period >(if the devices *are* lucets as we suppose, although they don't look >like modern or Victorian lucets.) They started up again in the >Victorian period (when so many "lost" crafts were started up again >or devised anew and said to be "recovered" from the past.) > > I'd have to go back and dig out photo copies to confirm this, but I beleive that George Digby in Elizabethan embroideries mentions the lucet cords. It's in the chapter on the sweetbags. He mentions there is a manuscript of some sort with instructions of how to do lucet cord. The manuscript is located in the V &A, and I thought dated to the 16th century, but it's been a while since I looked over the reference. Alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 14:23:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01133 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:23:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UIC5E05892; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:12:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UIC2V04656; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UIBkV04494 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:11:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZbTF-00037B-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:11:45 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Great Place to look at art and artifacts Organization: PII Message-ID: <000c01c237f3$321df580$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <3D46AF17.DBB3090B@lavoltapress.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:01:57 -0700 Status: RO It worked for me, but I may have a cookie that is telling it to remember my userid. Try this and if it doesn't work do a search on them in your search engine. Google brings them up right away. http://www.bridgeman.co.uk/public/home.jhtml A question for you-why do you have both netscape and explorer-is there something you get from one and not the other?? Sg-always wanting to make sure she doesn't miss anything! **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press **Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 8:22 AM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: Re: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Great Place **to look at art and artifacts ** ** **I can't even get the page to load, in either Netscape or **Explorer. I just get a blank window. Any hints? ** **Fran ** **Saragrace knauf wrote: ** **> I don't remember exactly how I registered-did you end up with a **> password? I know before I registered it would not let me **add items to **> a portfolio to view and the number of items on a like search **> dramatically increased after I registered. (Their cataloging could **> use some serious help). **> **> I am a little baffled by the site. If it doesn't cost **anything, why **> the registration? And it wouldn't appear that they sell **the images. **> I wrote them an email to ask those questions, but have not **heard back **> from them. Do you know where they are physically located? **> **> ** **> ** **> ** --- Saragrace knauf wrote: > In my **> **quest for an image these last few days I came across this **site. **> **> You have to register to get permission to view the site, **but they **> let **> me in, so ...... **> **> **> **> They have paintings etc. but also artifacts like QE **> **buskins, and Henry **> **> VIII's stirrups etc. Very cool. **> ** **> **Uhm... saragrace, there are three ways of registering, when I **> **went for the 'academic research' one I was directed to a **> **different site and I just couldn't get them to show me **> **pictures. Am I dumb? *G* probably, and too hot. :-) **> ** **> **Nicole **> ** **> ** **--------------------------------------------- **Visit our web pages! **Books on historic costume and vintage clothes **http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 16:05:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01718 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:05:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UJr7E18912; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UJr5V09471; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UJqvV09384 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip64.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.64]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6UJqqo19670 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:52:52 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Message-ID: <3D468D59.9153.28C13B02@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200207301220.AA1008337102@mail.wireweb.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:58:01 -0700 Status: RO > I'd have to go back and dig out photo copies to confirm this, but I > beleive that George Digby in Elizabethan embroideries mentions the > lucet cords. It's in the chapter on the sweetbags. He mentions there > is a manuscript of some sort with instructions of how to do lucet > cord. The manuscript is located in the V &A, and I thought dated to > the 16th century, but it's been a while since I looked over the > reference. According to my copy of Digby's Elizabethan Embroidery, the sweetbag drawstrings are "plaited (often multi-colored) silk drawstrings with tassels and fringes...) (Page 69.) He goes on to say that one way of working them was on the "lucette" but presents no evidence that it was done this way. Again, he presents no evidence for it other than passing on what others have told him. I suspect he got the information about "plaited" from a real source (because that is evidently what was used in the period according to the manuscripts of the time), but then translated it to "lucette" because that was a form he knew about (even though there is no evidence from the period that that's how they did it.) Unfortunately, unlike other sections, he does not quote his source for the information. June M. Russell, MD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 16:34:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01828 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:34:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UKMEE22674; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UKM8V28263; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UKLBV27607 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZdUR-000CW2-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:21:08 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity of Lucets References: <02c101c237ba$df3e6c10$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> In-Reply-To: <02c101c237ba$df3e6c10$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:58:52 +0100 Status: RO freyalyn wrote >Teddy, you're quite right, I'll have to go home and check but I think I may >find it harder that I thought. It's something I've "known" for so long I've >forgotten where I've known it from. > >And again, like so many textile things in archaeology, who's going to keep >a grotty old wooden tool when it's worn out - it's the sort of thing that gets >chucked in the fire rather than the midden. > >I'm coming to to Kirby Hall - a long drive and expensive day out, but I >deserve it. > >Freyalyn You most certainly do! Come and chat to us at the Normans - someone is bound to be doing lucet :-) (tho I'll probably be tablet weaving, since I've promised my hubby lots for his hood and tunic) Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 16:34:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01833 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:34:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UKMLE22705; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UKMJV28390; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UKLBV27608 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZdUR-000CW3-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:21:07 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids References: <20020729144418.28778.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:00:10 +0100 Status: RO Heather Rose Jones wrote >At 7:44 AM -0700 7/29/02, Tasha Kelly wrote: > >>I've managed to make finished laces that are about 2 >>to 2.5 feet long (perfect for my purposes of >>spiral-lacing a close-fitting kirtle) by tying a knot >>mid-way along the laces and then tying that area down >>and working out from the center. Later, I undo the >>knot and carefully tie another one on the edge of the >>finished section, leaving the un-braided section free. >>I then continue the braid out from the center going in >>the other direction. This method isn't perfect, >>because try as I might, there is always a small >>portion of slightly loose twists where the two areas >>meet in the middle, but it's hardly noticeable and >>definitely disguised when in use as a lace. > > >Interesting technique! > > >> If you've >>got a willing partner, you can make a very long, >>uninterrupted fingerloop braid with their help beating >>down the loops as you make each move. > >My somewhat limited experience has been that, with a partner to do the >beating, you can not only get a much longer braid, but the tightness of >the braid is _much_ more even (and tight). Even doing fairly short >braids by myself, there's noticeable unevenness in the tension. My >favorite beaters tend to be heavy metallic letter-openers. Enough >"heft" to beat solidly without a lot of effort, and just the right >"sharp but blunt" edge. > >Heather I remember reading (and I think it was in that "Compleat Anachronist") that the tension is one of the ways they can tell a piece of cord is fingerloop - the technique means it is unavoidable to have different tension along the length of it, as it gets closer to your fingers. I can manage reasonably even along about 2-2.5 feet, but there's definitely a difference (Also, I drop loops more often as it gets shorter and the tiny differences in length I started with get more and more exaggerated!) Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 16:34:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01834 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:34:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UKMQE22723; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:22:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UKMMV28441; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6UKLhV27939 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020730202143.77769.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:21:43 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: OT browsers, answer to saragrace RE: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000c01c237f3$321df580$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:21:43 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Saragrace knauf > A question for you-why do you have both netscape and explorer-is there > something you get from one and not the other?? Absolutely! I am a sworn Netscape fan since 1996, I absolutely hate all Microsoft products and just use them when I have to, like at work. I have Explorer only for those sites that are stupid enough not to code for netscape as well, and if I can help it i just won't visit those sites. being a web developer myself I see red when people don't programme their sites for both major browsers at least. netscape has a much better 'save as' treatment and the best is it doesn't open plugins like pdf files in the browser window but in the actual plugin/software. I prefer its bookmark (favourites for IE) treatment and it doesn't cache everything in such a mad way as Explorer does, nor does it give the ugly dotted lines around images that have links when clicking them. Granted though, Explorer is better for disability issues, one can change the font size and it is more stable in regard to badly coded pages. A style sheet doesn't work on a page? bad for netscape, Explorer though just ignores it. I always compare netscape and Explorer like the thoroughbred racing horse (Netscape) to the sturdy working horse (Explorer) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 17:52:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02174 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:52:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6ULeFE02074; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:40:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ULd3G15028; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6ULcdG14784 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:38:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6ULQII21965 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZeVV-00031A-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:26:18 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: OT browsers, answer to saragrace RE: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Organization: PII Message-ID: <000001c2380e$5e7ad100$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020730202143.77769.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:16:27 -0700 Status: RO Thank you for that very good explanation. I will have to give Netscape a whirl. I must admit my only experience with it has been when folks email me and say their links don't work. They are usually Netscape users. I don't know if it is Netscape or the language in the MS hyperlink that makes it not work. BTW I like your analogy, I can definitely relate to horses. Sg (Back to costumes before we get in trouble!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 18:35:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02379 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:35:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UMO4E06629; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UMO1G11094; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UMN5G10550 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.3] (as3-4-17.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.3]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6UMN3T28587 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <02c101c237ba$df3e6c10$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> References: <02c101c237ba$df3e6c10$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity of Lucets Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:29:22 -0700 Status: RO At 4:18 AM -0700 7/30/02, freyalyn wrote: >Teddy, you're quite right, I'll have to go home and check but I >think I may find it harder that I thought. It's something I've >"known" for so long I've forgotten where I've known it from. > >And again, like so many textile things in archaeology, who's going >to keep a grotty old wooden tool when it's worn out - it's the sort >of thing that gets chucked in the fire rather than the midden. On the other hand, we _do_ have direct evidence for other textile techniques that became obsolete (or extremely rare and localized). Even if we didn't have the enormous good luck of the surviving fingerloop-braiding manuals, we have a lot of surviving cordage whose structure clearly indicates that method of construction, as well as at least one medieval painting showing the technique in progress. Art showing various handwork techniques is not uncommon. A large variety of handwork tools survive from burials or casual survivals in archaeological sites. A variety of techniques are known only from chance survivals of the work itself. The context for "doubt based on the absence of evidence" is that _if_ lucet-work were as common and as widespread as the claims for it indicate, a complete lack of surviving examples of the work, or representations of the work, calls almost for conspiracy rather than simple apathy. On the other side, there are handwork techniques that we know _only_ from one or two highly localized chance survivals -- techniques that wouldn't have been recoverable by logical reasoning or argumentation. But conversely, one can argue logically for the plausibility of techniques that we can be extremely certain of the start-dates for (crochet being a good example). What you end up with is a vast gap between techniques -- no matter how unexpected -- for which we have direct evidence of historic use; and techniques -- no matter how logical and plausible -- for which we have no direct evidence of historic use. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 18:36:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02385 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:36:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UMONE06670; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UMOHG11233; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:24:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UMN7G10581 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.3] (as3-4-17.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.3]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6UMN6T28675 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:34:59 -0700 Status: RO At 5:06 PM -0500 7/29/02, Robin Netherton wrote: > > At 7:44 AM -0700 7/29/02, Tasha Kelly wrote: >> >> >I've managed to make finished laces that are about 2 >> >to 2.5 feet long (perfect for my purposes of >> >spiral-lacing a close-fitting kirtle) by tying a knot >> >mid-way along the laces and then tying that area down >> >and working out from the center. Later, I undo the >> >knot and carefully tie another one on the edge of the >> >finished section, leaving the un-braided section free. >> >I then continue the braid out from the center going in > > >the other direction. >But if I've figured out what you've written above, I think your method >would be superior. If I follow you, you're saying you make the loops twice >as long as you'd normally be able to work with, lay them all out in a long >bunch, knot the middle, and then work from the knot to one end, then turn >it around, un-knot, and work the unworked part to the other end? >Theoretically that could produce an almost invisible connection, though >some looping methods might work better with this than others. Just working from a thought-experiment, I wonder if it would work to knot it with a slip-knot through which you put a stick-like-object (which can then be fastened to your anchor). Naturally, you're working from the direction that does _not_ loosen the slip-knot. This would avoid having to try to undo any sort of ordinary knot after spending a long time putting tension on it! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 18:36:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02387 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:36:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UMOLE06664; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UMOJG11265; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UMNAG10624 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.3] (as3-4-17.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.3]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g6UMN8T28711 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D461E5B.31E543E7@dandy.net> References: <200207292303.g6TN3Z620470@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <3D461E5B.31E543E7@dandy.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:42:22 -0700 Status: RO At 1:04 AM -0400 7/30/02, leigh tartaglio wrote: >Hi, All. Tasha, it may be incorrect, at it is not my primary period >of interest, >but I believe the Jorvik Viking museum shows a tool that is >conjectured to be a >lucet tool in it's collection. If this is correct, lucetting goes back to this >point, and so is possibly applicable to later periods, providing the practice >didn't die out and re-emerge later, which is always possible. I have done some >finger-loop braiding, but not having original textile fragments to compare, it >would be hard for me to say whether something was fingerloop braided or >lucetted, although a person doing both a lot would probably know better. Mike >T. This is one of the class of objects that I was referring to that you _could_ do lucet work on, but that _could_ have other original purposes as well. Considering that you could, theoretically, do lucet-work on the thumb and forefinger of your off hand, I'm hesitant to conclude that the ability to use an object as a lucet is equivalent to proof that the object was originally intended as a lucet. I've read discussions of the Viking-era "possible lucets" (e.g. in MacGregor's "Bone, Antler, Ivory & Horn"), and all the ones I've seen boil down to, "Well, you _could_ use it as a lucet, I suppose." occasionally with the addition of some relatively unwarranted certainty that that's what it must be, then. (I _did_ mention previously that my opinions on this topic tend to get me in trouble.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 20:03:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02766 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:03:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6UNq5E19484; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UNq2n03371; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UNpcn03112 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:51:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip192.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.192]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6UNpWo09116 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:51:33 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Message-ID: <3D46C542.31843.299BA85E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:56:34 -0700 Status: RO > At 5:06 PM -0500 7/29/02, Robin Netherton wrote: > > > At 7:44 AM -0700 7/29/02, Tasha Kelly wrote: > >> > >> >I've managed to make finished laces that are about 2 > >> >to 2.5 feet long (perfect for my purposes of > >> >spiral-lacing a close-fitting kirtle) by tying a knot > >> >mid-way along the laces and then tying that area down > >> >and working out from the center. Later, I undo the > >> >knot and carefully tie another one on the edge of the > >> >finished section, leaving the un-braided section free. > >> >I then continue the braid out from the center going in > > > >the other direction. > > > > >But if I've figured out what you've written above, I think your > >method would be superior. If I follow you, you're saying you make the > >loops twice as long as you'd normally be able to work with, lay them > >all out in a long bunch, knot the middle, and then work from the knot > >to one end, then turn it around, un-knot, and work the unworked part > >to the other end? Theoretically that could produce an almost > >invisible connection, though some looping methods might work better > >with this than others. > > Just working from a thought-experiment, I wonder if it would work to > knot it with a slip-knot through which you put a stick-like-object > (which can then be fastened to your anchor). Naturally, you're > working from the direction that does _not_ loosen the slip-knot. This > would avoid having to try to undo any sort of ordinary knot after > spending a long time putting tension on it! > Heather To do extra long fingerloop braid I don't put a knot in it but rather clip it at the center. Then I work first one side, then the other. It seems to work fairly well (although the center sometimes has an odd look to it, probably because it isn't quite the same pattern, but rather the reverse.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 22:02:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03118 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:02:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V1p4E00842; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:51:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V1p2n19594; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V1o1n19137 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020731014956.DZUG23732.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:49:56 +0000 Message-ID: <002a01c23834$91782460$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <001701c237d9$6d3f6fa0$6501a8c0@Home> Subject: Re: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Great Place to look at art and artifacts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:49:54 -0700 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace knauf" Subject: RE: [h-cost] http://www.bridgeman.co.uk Great Place to look at art and artifacts > I am a little baffled by the site. If it doesn't cost anything, why the > registration? And it wouldn't appear that they sell the images. I > wrote them an email to ask those questions, but have not heard back from > them. Do you know where they are physically located? Not sure where they're physically located, but the Bridgeman is part of the Grove Dictionary of Art, which is a research database sold to libraries. (I know because we subscribe to it at the library I work at!) So that's where they make their money. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jul 30 23:57:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04063 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:57:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V3j5E13765; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V3j3n04894; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V3iXn04671 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:44:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2071.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.71]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20762 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:44:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3D475B66.5A5AF5CF@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:37:10 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. You can get the brass or tin-plated aglet ends from a variety of sources (my wife has them in her shop), and a method of manufacture is described in the Compleat Anachronist pamphlet for making your own. Most of the originals found in the MoL book are narrower and longer than the common tin cones. If you have someone handy around the place, you can modify a pair of small pliers to have a smooth semi circular face on each of the two faces of the plier jaws, and this can be used to crimp down the point on the end of a cord by applying even pressure and crimping evenly, not crushing. Either add some glue, or use a small nail (diamond shaped point) to punch a pair of holes up at the wider end of the aglet. This splits the metal and provides barbs on the inside which help hold the point on the end of the cord. You could also drill holes and put stitches through (also seen in the MoL aglet ends). Regarding lucetting, I'm not sure if it is right, but fingerloop braiding produces a similar patterned cord. I use it done in wool and fulled to provide a springy cord for the waistband of my netherbreeches (almost as elastic as modern ones), and for a number of other applications. Since I only know a few fingerloop style cord patterns, and those I've worked in silk buttonhole gimp, I haven't made enough to use it as frequently as lucet cord. BTW, can't lucetting be done on one's fingers? A little more difficult than twisting a tool around, perhaps, but possible, yes? Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 00:59:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04267 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 00:59:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V4m3E19706; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V4m1n27515; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V4lcn27378 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:47:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2071.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.71]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21461 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 00:47:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3D476A2F.F4931705@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> <3D44D856.390F52B9@dandy.net> <3D4538C8.13F26E97@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 00:40:15 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. Nicole, I found that illo of the tradesmen, and my copy is too small to show any detail, if in fact there was any. There was someone on this list some time back that thought that they had seen holes in the buttons, so perhaps they have a better copy. If anyone remembers who that might have been, please speak up. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 01:55:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04504 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:55:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V5h5E22552; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:43:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V5h1n13209; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V5gJn12987 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020731054214.WKQA22139.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:42:14 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c23855$058e4260$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2381A.591552B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] FO: 1836-7 evening dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:42:13 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2381A.591552B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I keep forgetting to post this, but I've actually got a finished object! = (This is impressive because lately I'm really good at starting = projects, but not so good at finishing them). It's an attempt to = reproduce the 1836-7 evening dress from _Costume in Detail_. http://demode.tweedlebop.com/1836.html - Kendra ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2381A.591552B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I keep forgetting to post this, but = I've actually=20 got a finished object!  (This is impressive because lately I'm = really good=20 at starting projects, but not so good at finishing them).  = It's an attempt to reproduce the 1836-7 evening = dress from=20 _Costume in Detail_.
 
http://demode.tweedlebop.= com/1836.html
 
- Kendra
 
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2381A.591552B0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 03:17:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12408 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:17:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V754E25567; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V752n03695; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6V74rn03631 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020731070453.43530.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:04:53 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1836-7 evening dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000e01c23855$058e4260$befc8218@hopperflop2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:04:53 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > I keep forgetting to post this, but I've actually got a finished object! > (This is impressive because lately I'm really good at starting projects, but > not so good at finishing them). It's an attempt to reproduce the 1836-7 > evening dress from _Costume in Detail_. > > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/1836.html > > - Kendra > What a lovely dress and beautiful fabric! You look stunning in it. This isn't a period I normally like but I can see when someone looks gorgeous and you do in that dress. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 03:21:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14439 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:21:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V7A2E25809; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V7A1n04839; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V79vn04805 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.186.237.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.186.237]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZncJ-0005E3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:09:55 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020729080218.9748.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020729080218.9748.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early use of buttons??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:36:38 -0700 Status: RO At 9:02 AM +0100 7/29/02, N Kipar wrote: > --- leigh tartaglio wrote: > > >> I am curious as to the source for the information about the Dorset style >> buttons in use after 1610. > >Who said that? I must have not read some of the posts in this >thread. They were >certainly in use at the dates mentioned above, the portraits I have show them >clearly, I am convinced they cannot be anything else. That was probably me -- I mentioned them because I hate ties at shirt cuffs, and the costume director for my guild won't let us use buttons on our cuffs because they don't become common there till at least 40 years after the time we're portraying (Elizabethan England, 1570s). I have to report, though, that the 1610 date seems to be something I either made up ;), or heard from another costumer. I thought I'd seen it in Nancy Nehring's _50 Heirloom Buttons to Make_ (Taunton Press, 1996, ISBN 1-56158-146-1). However it turns out she doesn't give a specific date either for these or for the "sea urchin" dome-shaped buttons (also called "grindles") that were made around the same time. If there was ever an article in Piecework Magazine about these buttons, it might have been that I saw it there, but other than that, I can't imagine where else I might have seen it. She does mention a source some of you Brits might be able to locate: a booklet called "Dorset Buttons -- Fact File" by Marion Howitt. ( ["Swanston," Russell Ave., Swanage, Dorset, BH192EB] is what she gives for publishing information in her bibliography, if that makes any sense to you). -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 03:21:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14468 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:21:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V7A6E25818; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:10:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V7A5n04872; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V79xn04821 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:09:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.186.237.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.186.237]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZncM-0005E3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:09:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020729155254.00d9b7c0@pop.directcon.net> References: <3D42C374.6528DE1D@in-tch.com> <3.0.6.32.20020729155254.00d9b7c0@pop.directcon.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Underarm fullness (WAS:) Early use of buttons??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:43:24 -0700 Status: RO At 3:52 PM -0700 7/29/02, Margo Anderson wrote: > >Have I been making t-tunics and dresses wrong all this time? I cut them >>to roughly my own size, plus enough to move in. Certainly not twice my >>size! If you make the body so big, how do you avoid the top of the >>sleeve being somewhere near your elbow? > >And on those of us who are on the larger side, it would be impossible. >Twice around my body plus twelve inches on either side would result in a >body piece that was twelve inches *wider* than my wrist to wrist measurement. > >Is there a mistake somewhere? Er, yes. (This seems to be my day for admitting mistakes!) I meant twice the WIDTH of one's body, not the circumference. Jean's "roughly my own size, plus enough to move in" is what I was thinking of. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 03:22:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14825 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:22:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V7B2E25870; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V7B1n05132; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V7A2n04852 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.186.237.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.186.237]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZncN-0005E3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:10:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D461E5B.31E543E7@dandy.net> References: <200207292303.g6TN3Z620470@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <3D461E5B.31E543E7@dandy.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:21:46 -0700 Status: RO At 1:04 AM -0400 7/30/02, Mike T. wrote: >Hi, All. Tasha, it may be incorrect, at it is not my primary period >of interest, >but I believe the Jorvik Viking museum shows a tool that is >conjectured to be a >lucet tool in it's collection. If this is correct, lucetting goes back to this >point, and so is possibly applicable to later periods, providing the practice >didn't die out and re-emerge later, which is always possible. I have done some >finger-loop braiding, but not having original textile fragments to compare, it >would be hard for me to say whether something was fingerloop braided or >lucetted, although a person doing both a lot would probably know better. Lucet cord's structure is pretty distinctive, and at least in its simple form (i.e. the easy kind made with 2 loops) it's fairly easy to recognize. It's basically a knitted tube composed of only 2 knit stitches -- although of course it's not made on knitting needles, and could well have been independently invented. Like other knitting, it can be stretchy or firm depending on what it's made of. There are also, as people have mentioned, lots of fancy versions, but I believe they also share the basic knitted structure, though it may be harder to recognize. Fingerloop braids, on the other hand, are actually braided structures, and usually look it. Some of the simple round or square fingerloop braids look a lot like any other 8-, 12- or 16-stranded round braid; their advantage is that they're a lot faster to work. There's an almost infinite variety of more complex fingerloops braids too (flat, round, square, rectangular, patterned...). I have a feeling that costumers and re-enactors may have latched onto (pun intended) lucet braid as a standard technique years ago (when we didn't know as much as we do now), as a plausible, sturdy, and generally useful way to make lacings. I've had a number of people tell me they love making lucet braid because it's one of the few things they can do without looking at it constantly, while walking around, et cetera. I believe it's only within the last five to ten years, as people have paid attention to reconstructing and popularizing the techniques, that we've become aware of just how much of the ordinary, taken-for-granted cord and lacing in European costume was actually fingerloop-braided. At 9:00 PM +0100 7/30/02, Jean Waddie wrote: >I remember reading (and I think it was in that "Compleat >Anachronist") that the tension is one of the ways they can tell a >piece of cord is fingerloop - the technique means it is unavoidable >to have different tension along the length of it, as it gets closer >to your fingers. I can manage reasonably even along about 2-2.5 >feet, but there's definitely a difference (Also, I drop loops more >often as it gets shorter and the tiny differences in length I >started with get more and more exaggerated!) Hmmmm. Well, I can testify -- as a sometime other half of Heather's fingerloop-with-beating team -- that as far as I can tell, you get very little variation in tension if you have one person braiding while the person at the other end beats it down tight. I think we've produced a couple of six-foot-or-so braids, which means we started out with about eight feet of thread between us. (Better think of something interesting to talk about, though, 'cause it takes awhile.) Speaking of fingerloop braiding, Noemi Spieser has, as the frontispiece in her self-published book, a very nice black-and-white enlargement of a detail of a rather obscure 1465 painting of the Virgin Mary from Aragon, painted by Nicolás Zahortiga. It shows the Virgin and Child on a high, gold throne, surrounded at the base by a host of female saints employed in various domestic tasks (embroidering, winding yarn onto a bobbin, etc.) Two in the foreground are clearly making a fingerloop braid; one saint has the loops on her fingers while the other holds a beater. (The saints' names are helpfully written on their haloes, but I can't read them, since the scan that I have of it isn't very good.) The problems with short loops and uneven ends, OTOH, are right on. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 04:36:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13121 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:36:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V8O2E01289; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V8O1n26035; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6V8Njn25978 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:23:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020731082345.22516.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:23:45 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] English Civil war patterns from UK Merchant Venturers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:23:45 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Has anyone tried their patterns yet? I was amazed to find them, because I have never seen the patternson Clive's stall until now, maybe he only sells them online? They look blooming good those drawings and I am going to order quite a few, cross your fingers they are good ones and not the usual modern idea of how to make a period garment. They are cheao too, only Ł2.50 per pattern! http://www.themerchantventurer.co.uk/ Go to the scroll down bit on the top right and go to 'patterns' and hit 'search', then you're right in the ladies or mens' pattens. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 05:22:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13204 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:22:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V908E04116; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V904n06814; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f186.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.186]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V8xxn06765 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:00:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:59:54 -0700 Received: from 63.12.14.213 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:59:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.14.213] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2002 08:59:54.0482 (UTC) FILETIME=[A32B6D20:01C23870] Subject: [h-cost] Sausage curls & ringlets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:29:54 +0930 Status: RO
Hello
Can anyone please tell me how to make sausage curls and ringlets? Every time I try them I end up with very loose curls or very frizzy hair.
Rebecca.

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 05:22:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13208 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:22:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V8rEE03226; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V8r2n04165; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V8qcn03996 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:52:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01199.; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:53:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:52:37 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] English Civil war patterns from UK Merchant Venturers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6V8qcn03996 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:52:18 +0100 Status: RO I've often seen these on sale at SK events. When I gave up battling I made myself a civilian man's suit from a pattern borrowed from a friend, but which looks like the 1635 doublet and the cloakbag breeches shown here. I did alter the doublet slightly and put in a waist seam like the 1640 one; even though the "look" is high-waisted, I needed to lengthen the waist to fit my proportions. (Unfortunately I don't get to wear the suit much, since I discovered afterwards that cross-dressing is frowned on in SK living history circles, even though I'm not curvaceous enough to look silly in men's clothes.) I've not much experience of other historical patterns for comparison; the bodice pattern I've used several times was copied from a book in the library here, based on the 1630s bodice in the V&A. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 05:22:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13212 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:22:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V916E04246; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V911n07165; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6V90An06858 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:00:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020731090009.25044.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:00:09 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] English Civil war patterns from UK Merchant Venturers To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:00:09 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > I've often seen these on sale at SK events. When I gave up battling I made > myself a civilian man's suit from a pattern borrowed from a friend, but which > looks like the 1635 doublet and the cloakbag breeches shown here. I did alter > the doublet slightly and put in a waist seam like the 1640 one; even though > the "look" is high-waisted, I needed to lengthen the waist to fit my > proportions. Thanks Kate, I wouldn't want nor think I could use them 'just so', I don't believe in commercial patterns most of the time (no no Margo, I have yours, and I love them, honest, just need to wait another 10 years or so to be actually able to make something fom it but I do wiat with baited breath for the male pattern set!) and would always expect to make a mockup first. It looks good enough for a starting point though. Thanks, Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 05:23:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13216 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:23:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V943E04614; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V942n08475; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6V93Hn08185 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:03:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020731090317.3138.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:03:17 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sausage curls & ringlets To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:03:17 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Rebecca Anderson wrote:
Hello
Can anyone please tell me how to make sausage curls and ringlets? Every time I try them I end up with very loose curls or very frizzy hair. First of all, Rebecca, please, please don't use HTML email but text. Thanks! Anyway, I don't have to make ringlets myself because I wear wigs, but my friends do it like that: they use the soft foamy curlers that have the bendable wire inside, dampen the strands of hair to be curled, and spray the bejeezus out of them with some very strong setting lotion. Then they wrap the strand of hair tightly around the curlers and bend those together to stay in place. They usually do that overnight. One friend though has such extra straight hair taht whatever she is doing, it always hangs out straight after a couple of hours. Did this make sense? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 05:23:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13220 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:23:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V8t3E03496; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V8t2n04960; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V8sMn04654 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb05la (unverified [10.1.200.108]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:50:09 -0700 thread-index: AcI4b0ZFqYFa7nCdSmOqhw/zgbzEHw== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Authenticity of Lucets From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity of Lucets Message-ID: <2dcd01c2386f$4645cca0$12c8a8c0@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2DCE_01C23834.99E6F4A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:50:09 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2DCE_01C23834.99E6F4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You most certainly do! Come and chat to us at the Normans - someone is > bound to be doing lucet :-) (tho I'll probably be tablet weaving, since > I've promised my hubby lots for his hood and tunic) > > Jean > I shall try and track you down, Jean - I'm really looking forward to it. Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. ------=_NextPart_000_2DCE_01C23834.99E6F4A0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> You most certainly do! Come and chat to us at the Normans - someone is
> bound to be doing lucet :-) (tho I'll probably be tablet weaving, since
> I've promised my hubby lots for his hood and tunic)
>
> Jean
>

I shall try and track you down, Jean - I'm really looking forward to it.

Freyalyn
_______________________________________________________________
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------=_NextPart_000_2DCE_01C23834.99E6F4A0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 05:57:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13312 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:57:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V9j4E07478; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V9j2n18385; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V9iwn18359 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A240A090144; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:47:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c23876$e0310300$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sausage curls & ringlets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C23855.581BFCC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:44:32 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C23855.581BFCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rebecca, I have been making ringlets for the past 10 years. It is my daughter's favorite hairstyle's and I can make all kinds of hairstyles out of them. On my "A Brush with History: Vintage Hairstyles" website under the ringlets section I try to give some hints. http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Women/menu.htm I have taken photos of step-by-step on how to create them to make a website, put just have not had the time to make the site. Here are some of the styles I have done on my daughter's hair: http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Children/katcurl.jpg Before: http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Children/kat3.jpg After: http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Children/kat2.jpg Ponytail ringlets: Here are some hints: 1. Roll the ringlet in the direction of the flow of your hair. This is **THE** most important thing to do when making ringlets. If you don't the curl will unwind. Remember your hair growth direction can change all over your head, especially if you have cow licks or a double crown. Cow licks can occur all over your head and you don't realize it. That is why it is best to have someone else make the ringlets. They can see the hair growth directions. 2. Dirty hair is the best to make any hairstyle. All the Miss America contestants have dirty hair when one parade on TV at Atlanta City. 3. Naturally curly hair is a perfect to make ringlets with. My daughter has curly hair and ringlets will stay in place for a week. Straight hair, like mine, will only hold ringlets for a day at best and that is when sprayed down with a strong hairspray like Vavoom. 4. Best things to make ringlets with... small ringlets: pencils... medium ringlets: dowels 5. Hair length: shoulder length to shoulder blade length make great ringlets. Any longer hair, the ringlets start to look like dreadlocks and they are likely to unwind near the scalp. 6. Good things products to use when making ringlets VO5 setting gel or Dep styling gel. I could go on forever... ringlets is my specialty. My daughter's hair is what got me interested in historic hairstyles. We look at historic styles for inspiration to create new styles. When you have great hair to work with and one that will hold any style for days, it is an honor and joy to work with it. My daughter was named after my mother-in-law who was a hair dresser. My daughter has inherited her grandmother's talent. Her greatest pleasure is to style people's and Barbies' hair. AND she is only 10 years old. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C23855.581BFCC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rebecca,
 
I have been making ringlets for the past 10 years.  It is my=20 daughter's favorite hairstyle's and I can make all kinds of hairstyles = out of=20 them.  On my "A Brush with History: Vintage Hairstyles" website = under the=20 ringlets section I try to give some hints.  http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Women/menu.htm&nbs= p;=20 I have taken photos of step-by-step on how to create them to make a = website, put=20 just have not had the time to make the site. 
 
Here are some of the styles I have done on my daughter's = hair:
http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Children/katcurl= .jpg
Before:
http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Children/kat3.jpg
After:
http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Children/kat2.jpg
Ponytail ringlets:
 
Here are some hints:
1. Roll the ringlet in the direction of the flow of your = hair.  This=20 is **THE** most important thing to do when making ringlets.  If you = don't=20 the curl will unwind.  Remember your hair growth = direction can=20 change all over your head, especially if you have cow licks or a=20 double crown.  Cow licks can occur all over your head and = you=20 don't realize it.  That is why it is best to have someone else make = the=20 ringlets.  They can see the hair growth directions.
 
2.  Dirty hair is the best to make any hairstyle.  All = the Miss=20 America contestants have dirty hair when one parade on TV at = Atlanta=20 City.
 
3. Naturally curly hair is a perfect to make ringlets = with. =20 My daughter has curly hair and ringlets will stay in place for a = week. =20 Straight hair, like mine, will only hold ringlets for a day at best and = that is=20 when sprayed down with a strong hairspray like Vavoom. 
 
4. Best things to make ringlets with... small ringlets: pencils... = medium=20 ringlets: dowels
 
5. Hair length:  shoulder length to shoulder blade length make = great=20 ringlets.  Any longer hair, the ringlets start to look like = dreadlocks and=20 they are likely to unwind near the scalp.
 
6. Good things products to use when making ringlets VO5 setting gel = or Dep=20 styling gel. 
 
I could go on forever... ringlets is my specialty.  My = daughter's hair=20 is what got me interested in historic hairstyles. We look at = historic=20 styles for inspiration to create new styles.  When you have = great hair=20 to work with and one that will hold any style for days, it is an honor = and=20 joy to work with it.  My daughter was named after my = mother-in-law who=20 was a hair dresser.  My daughter has inherited her=20 grandmother's talent.  Her greatest pleasure is to style = people's and=20 Barbies' hair.  AND she is only 10 years old.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
  ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C23855.581BFCC0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 06:05:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13372 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:05:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6V9qrE07718; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V9qqn20207; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:52:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6V9n9n19343 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:49:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A33CA240144; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:51:56 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c23877$76220580$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000e01c23855$058e4260$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1836-7 evening dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C23855.EECD4200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:48:44 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C23855.EECD4200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kendra, I love your gown. It is beautiful and you did a great job on it. I also like your presentation and layout of your costume journal. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C23855.EECD4200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kendra,
 
I love your gown.  It is beautiful and you did a great job on=20 it.  I also like your presentation and layout of your costume=20 journal.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
 
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C23855.EECD4200-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 06:56:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13543 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:56:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VAi4E09081; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:44:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VAi2n01432; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VAhgn01329 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:43:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKQRYQXF5C001NQF@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:43:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKQRYQ9K6Q001SNM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:43:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:39:22 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:38:36 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.71) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:38:33 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] English Civil war patterns from UK Merchant In-reply-to: <200207310950.g6V9oqn19794@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <32B4D3E6D29@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g6VAhgn01329 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:38:32 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Has anyone tried their patterns yet? I was amazed to find them, > because I have never seen the patternson Clive's stall until now, > maybe he only sells them online? They look blooming good those > drawings and I am going to order quite a few, cross your fingers > they are good ones and not the usual modern idea of how to make a > period garment. They are cheao too, only Ł2.50 per pattern! I've not looked at their patterns but bought stuff from their stalls at events - they like their documentation and keep it to hand in case someone like me starts asking questions about their sources forvarious items on the stall... which is quite a good sign. Ah, wait - I *have* several of those patterns - they work just fine, if you're fairly sure what you are doing, but the instructions are minimal I've got a lovely green wool suit made using the "Doublet 1620 - 25" pattern. The 1640 doublet came out a bit small - but I skipped making a fitting mock-up so that could be my problem rather than the pattern. The casaque I made from their pattern is still in use as a winter coat (well, buttoned as a cloak at any rate - I'm too big around the upper arms for it to fit as a coat these days) and it must have been made in the early 1990s. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 06:57:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13548 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:57:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VAk3E09145; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VAk2n01934; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VAjln01876 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KKQS29HM8W001TKA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:45:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KKQS26EJ7C001LWB@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:45:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:41:23 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:40:27 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.71) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:40:24 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] English Civil war patterns from UK Merchant In-reply-to: <200207310950.g6V9oqn19794@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <32B552A1407@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:40:24 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > (Unfortunately I don't get to wear the suit much, since I > discovered afterwards that cross-dressing is frowned on in SK > living history circles, even though I'm not curvaceous enough to > look silly in men's clothes.) Wear it anyway Kate and let them frown! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 07:03:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13566 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:03:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VAp3E09312; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VAp2n02928; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6VAoHn02812 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:50:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020731105017.60737.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:50:17 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] English Civil war patterns from UK Merchant To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <32B4D3E6D29@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:50:17 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > Thanks Teddy for taking the time to look at them and write a recommendation :-) I ordered 9 patterns (that kept the shipping fee to Ł2.99 anymore and it wouldhave gone up *L*), they are very sweet people, I bought so much glassware from them that Clive bought me a drink at Hounslow :-))) > I've not looked at their patterns but bought stuff from their stalls at > events - they like their documentation and keep it to hand in case > someone like me starts asking questions about their sources > forvarious items on the stall... which is quite a good sign. Absolutely, they don't BS you, and their glassware is really superb, the best I know of and I know pretty much all of the glassware traders here in the UK. > I *have* several of those patterns - they work just fine, if you're fairly > sure what you are doing, but the instructions are minimal Supe, np problems here, because I usually neve have ANY instructions, using Noragh waugh and making the technique up as I go along. Ninya told me that I need not worry, because when I compained that she being a professional knew the techniques so much better she said that there were no set 'techniques' in the 17th c. and I agree from what I have seen. She has handled many more extant garments than I have. > I've got a lovely green wool suit made using the "Doublet 1620 - 25" > pattern. Yep, I ordered that one, mainly coz I love it. :-) > The 1640 doublet came out a bit small - but I skipped making a > fitting mock-up so that could be my problem rather than the pattern. I shall not attempt ever to not make a mock-up, ben is so muscular in the shoulders and arms that nothing ever fits anyway. > The casaque I made from their pattern is still in use as a winter > coat (well, buttoned as a cloak at any rate - I'm too big around the > upper arms for it to fit as a coat these days) and it must have been > made in the early 1990s. I skipped the cassock because I'll use norah Waugh's one, but I did get the female bodice patterns and all of the doublets. If I make something of it I'll remember to send the info and pic to the Great pattern review. Nicole Hmm.. jus a thought, should I send the info of the Noragh waugh coat too? ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 09:22:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14112 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:22:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VDA4E16084; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VDA1n17534; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40206.mail.yahoo.com (web40206.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.67]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6VD9In17335 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020731130913.93535.qmail@web40206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.24.58] by web40206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:09:13 PDT From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200207310346.g6V3k7n05363@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1128 - 12 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Jean wrote: > I remember reading (and I think it was in that > "Compleat Anachronist") > that the tension is one of the ways they can tell a > piece of cord is > fingerloop - the technique means it is unavoidable > to have different > tension along the length of it, as it gets closer to > your fingers. I > can manage reasonably even along about 2-2.5 feet, > but there's > definitely a difference (Also, I drop loops more > often as it gets > shorter and the tiny differences in length I started > with get more and > more exaggerated!) There is also the issue of muscle strength and concentration on spreading the bows, especially at the beginning of the braid. If you are maxing out the length of the loops for one person to manipulate alone (probably approaching 2 feet), you need to tirelessly extend your arms out in a "fly" movement (term from the gym). It's not only important to move the loops correctly from finger to finger for each step, but to properly pull on them with steady tension and spreading. If you don't have someone to beat it down, you're entirely reliant on the spreading of the loops after each movement. This can build some serious muscle! I find that if I pay careful attention to tension and spreading the bows/loops, I get a rather even-tensioned, consistent braid. My posterior deltoids protest a bit, though. Tasha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 10:36:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14607 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:36:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VEO4E21845; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VEO2n15645; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21306.mail.yahoo.com (web21306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6VENOn15259 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:23:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020731142323.41780.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.58.190] by web21306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:23:23 PDT From: kj green To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020730103628.7102.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Vacation time... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Greetings! It's almost time for vacation. Since y'all have been very chatty lately, I'm temporarily unsubbing so that my mailbox doesn't max out while I'm gone. Have a lovely couple of weeks. Don't talk about anything *too* interesting! :-) Oh, yes, for the obiligatory costume content...I'm teaching 2 costuming classes at Pennsic this year: The Borgia Gown and The Borgia Chemise. Hopefully when I get my new computer (lightning through the phone line---the insurance dude said they were going to cut me a check for the more expensive one!!!) I'll be able to put my class notes online. kate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 10:55:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14776 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:55:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VEgiE23433; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VEghn24064; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VEb0n21361 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a232.in-tch.com [66.62.107.32]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6VEM4916964 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D47F733.138CC1CE@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 1836-7 evening dress References: <000e01c23855$058e4260$befc8218@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:41:55 -0600 Status: RO Oh, wow. That looks so pretty. And it looks very good on you, too. And I just love it when people do dress diaries...I really enjoy watching the progress unfold. --Sue, peeking into the 19th c. from the middle ages.... > Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > I keep forgetting to post this, but I've actually got a finished > object! (This is impressive because lately I'm really good at > starting projects, but not so good at finishing them). It's an > attempt to reproduce the 1836-7 evening dress from _Costume in > Detail_. > > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/1836.html > > - Kendra > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 12:13:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15585 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:13:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VG14E01592; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VG11n08585; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VG0on08437 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:00:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip163.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.163]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6VG0io04135 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Message-ID: <3D47A845.26296.2D128D49@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <3D461E5B.31E543E7@dandy.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:05:09 -0700 Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > I have a feeling that costumers and re-enactors may have latched onto > (pun intended) lucet braid as a standard technique years ago (when we > didn't know as much as we do now), as a plausible, sturdy, and > generally useful way to make lacings. I think you are correct, Chris. Shoot, when even our "experts" (like the 1963 George Wingfield Digby) say that it could be lucet, we just grabbed it and ran, not even thinking that there was no supporting evidence of it. The whole textile archeology scene, from the amateurs (like me) to the professionals have gotten a whole lot better at this in the past 20 years. Just think what a short time we've had such wonderful books as Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion as an example. Prior to that we pretty much had line drawings (both the bad kind like Brooks and Braun & Schneider, and the good ones like in Cunnington and Cunnington's and Nancy Bradfield who did drawings based on real clothing) and portraits. Now we have photographs so that we can draw our own conclusions or believe the conclusions of those telling us things. We have people who are genuinely interested in the textiles at an archeologic site rather than (flinch) throwing them away as detrius. Things have changed a lot, thank goodness! Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 13:34:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16636 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:34:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VHM7E11087; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:22:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VHM2n29903; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host16.dnsdomain.net (host16.dnsdomain.net [66.197.224.160]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VHL7n29307 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lithiate by host16.dnsdomain.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17Zx9j-0002CG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:21:03 -0400 From: "Sarah Lorraine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sausage curls & ringlets X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 X-IPAddress: 156.41.168.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host16.dnsdomain.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32030 32030] / [32030 32030] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host16.dnsdomain.net Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:21:03 -0400 Status: RO I am extremely hairstyle-challenged, which is complicated by the fact that I have fine, thick, waist length hair, which is not particularly curly, nor is it particularly straight. Curls? My hair sheds them faster than my cat can shed on expensive velvet. Braids? My hair laughs at attempts by mere mortals to braid it (except for the ladies at renaissance faires who are hair goddesses apparently). Pretty much the only thing I can get to stay these days is a ponytail which will typically work it's way loose if given half a chance. About the only way I've ever achieved satisfactory ringlets is either by setting my hair for approxamentally a day and a half in curlers, starting when wet and then letting them dry through the next 30 or so hours or by using these funny looking rubber curlers my sister bought back in the late-80's... They're the ones that are kind of goblet shaped and you wrap your hair around the "stem" of the "goblet" and then fold the "cup" over the coil to secure your hair and I can't remember the brand name. I don't think they sell them anymore, but they work magic if left in over night (which makes sleeping a real pain in the neck, obviously). My sis, on the other hand, has waist length curly hair that will hang in ringlets if you simply wet your finger and twist. And they will stay that way for days until she washes her hair (she also seems to have not inherrited my extremely oily hair and can actually go for longer than 24 hours without her hair getting crusty). I always wanted curly hair... ::sigh:: Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 15:45:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17682 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:45:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VJY6E26882; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:34:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJY3n20403; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJXmn20234 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZzDx-000NP1-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:33:33 +0100 Message-ID: <4mRgiGCMlDS9IwRz@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt ties/aiglets References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:23:56 +0100 Status: RO OK, the details: "Back issues of The Compleat Anachronist are available from The Office of the Registry, SCA Inc, PO Box 360789, Milpitas, CA 95036-0789". No price is given for back issues, although it says 10 or more copies of one issue are available at a reduced rate. The one you want is no. 108, "Fingerloop Braids" by Lois Swales and Zoe Kuhn Williams. Let's see if I can describe it briefly without pictures. It helps to start with a friend to move the loops for you, when you feel all tied up! You need a minimum of 5 loops of yarn, all equal lengths and tied together at the open end. I'd start with about 18 inches. Tie the tied end to something solid. Holding your hands with palms towards you, as if you were hugging a cushion to your chest, put a loop over each of fingers 3,4,5 (assuming your thumb is 1) of your left hand, and 3, 4 of your right. Crook your fingers a bit so the loops don't slip off. Now, each loop has two threads to it, top and bottom. The patterning comes from whether you pick up the bottom or the top thread, and which order you pick them. This is the very basic, plain version. With finger 2 (and thumb, to help) of your right hand, reach through the loop on right 3 and pick up the loop from left 5, lifting it by the top thread. Pull your hands apart, to "beat" the braid down, and bring them back in front of you again. Now comes the tricky bit - you have loops on 2,3,4 right and 3, 4 left. You have to walk the loops down your right-hand fingers so they are on 3, 4, 5. Put the lower finger through the loop and then slip the higher finger out. It's a knack, and this is where your friend comes in, to pick them up and put them back on your fingers when you drop them. Now reach through the loop on left 3 to pick up the loop from right 5, pull apartand walk down your left hand. Just keep picking up from your pinky to your opposite index finger, pull apart and walk the loops down. Let me know how you get on! Jean Kate M Bunting wrote > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >>>> kat@grendal.rain.com 07/29/02 04:32pm >>> > >Aside from books stating "lucet was done during the >>Renaissance", I've found no evidence for lucetting in the 16th >>century anywhere. I've seen evidence for it in Viking times and in >>Victorian times, but none in between. If you have such evidence, I >>would *love* to see it as I really like lucetted cord. It is easy to >>make in long quantities and much easier to set up than fingerloop >>braid. > >Lucets are widely used over here by 17th cent. reenactors, but I don't >know on what authority other than the claims of the lucet manufacturer. >I too would like to know more about fingerloop braid. I was shown how >to make cord on the fingers with 2 strands; the result is stretchier >than lucet cord. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 15:46:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17699 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:46:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VJYYE26945; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJYTn20677; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJXnn20245 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZzDx-000NP4-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:33:46 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1128 - 12 msgs References: <200207310346.g6V3k7n05363@net.indra.com> <20020731130913.93535.qmail@web40206.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20020731130913.93535.qmail@web40206.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:32:09 +0100 Status: RO Tasha McGann wrote >Jean wrote: >> I remember reading (and I think it was in that >> "Compleat Anachronist") >> that the tension is one of the ways they can tell a >> piece of cord is >> fingerloop - the technique means it is unavoidable >> to have different >> tension along the length of it, as it gets closer to >> your fingers. I >> can manage reasonably even along about 2-2.5 feet, >> but there's >> definitely a difference (Also, I drop loops more >> often as it gets >> shorter and the tiny differences in length I started >> with get more and >> more exaggerated!) > >There is also the issue of muscle strength and >concentration on spreading the bows, especially at the >beginning of the braid. If you are maxing out the >length of the loops for one person to manipulate alone >(probably approaching 2 feet), you need to tirelessly >extend your arms out in a "fly" movement (term from >the gym). It's not only important to move the loops >correctly from finger to finger for each step, but to >properly pull on them with steady tension and >spreading. If you don't have someone to beat it down, >you're entirely reliant on the spreading of the loops >after each movement. This can build some serious >muscle! > >I find that if I pay careful attention to tension and >spreading the bows/loops, I get a rather >even-tensioned, consistent braid. My posterior >deltoids protest a bit, though. > >Tasha > Hey! Costuming as exercise, I like it! However, I think I would have to find a way of jumping up and down at the same time, or my posterior something else will spread to make up for it :-) Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 15:46:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17701 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:46:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VJYiE26972; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJYXn20726; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:34:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJXnn20249 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZzDx-000NP3-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:33:46 +0100 Message-ID: <52HgG3CVoDS9IwwI@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids References: <200207292303.g6TN3Z620470@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <3D461E5B.31E543E7@dandy.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:27:17 +0100 Status: RO Chris Laning wrote >At 1:04 AM -0400 7/30/02, Mike T. wrote: >>Hi, All. Tasha, it may be incorrect, at it is not my primary period of >>interest, >>but I believe the Jorvik Viking museum shows a tool that is >>conjectured to be a >>lucet tool in it's collection. If this is correct, lucetting goes back to this >>point, and so is possibly applicable to later periods, providing the practice >>didn't die out and re-emerge later, which is always possible. I have done some >>finger-loop braiding, but not having original textile fragments to compare, it >>would be hard for me to say whether something was fingerloop braided or >>lucetted, although a person doing both a lot would probably know better. > >Lucet cord's structure is pretty distinctive, and at least in its >simple form (i.e. the easy kind made with 2 loops) it's fairly easy to >recognize. It's basically a knitted tube composed of only 2 knit >stitches -- although of course it's not made on knitting needles, and >could well have been independently invented. > >Like other knitting, it can be stretchy or firm depending on what it's >made of. There are also, as people have mentioned, lots of fancy >versions, but I believe they also share the basic knitted structure, >though it may be harder to recognize. > >Fingerloop braids, on the other hand, are actually braided structures, >and usually look it. Some of the simple round or square fingerloop >braids look a lot like any other 8-, 12- or 16-stranded round braid; >their advantage is that they're a lot faster to work. There's an almost >infinite variety of more complex fingerloops braids too (flat, round, >square, rectangular, patterned...). > >I have a feeling that costumers and re-enactors may have latched onto >(pun intended) lucet braid as a standard technique years ago (when we >didn't know as much as we do now), as a plausible, sturdy, and >generally useful way to make lacings. I've had a number of people tell >me they love making lucet braid because it's one of the few things they >can do without looking at it constantly, while walking around, et >cetera. I believe it's only within the last five to ten years, as >people have paid attention to reconstructing and popularizing the >techniques, that we've become aware of just how much of the ordinary, >taken-for-granted cord and lacing in European costume was actually >fingerloop-braided. > >At 9:00 PM +0100 7/30/02, Jean Waddie wrote: >>I remember reading (and I think it was in that "Compleat Anachronist") >>that the tension is one of the ways they can tell a piece of cord is >>fingerloop - the technique means it is unavoidable to have different >>tension along the length of it, as it gets closer to your fingers. I >>can manage reasonably even along about 2-2.5 feet, but there's >>definitely a difference (Also, I drop loops more often as it gets >>shorter and the tiny differences in length I started with get more and >>more exaggerated!) > >Hmmmm. Well, I can testify -- as a sometime other half of Heather's >fingerloop-with-beating team -- that as far as I can tell, you get very >little variation in tension if you have one person braiding while the >person at the other end beats it down tight. I think we've produced a >couple of six-foot-or-so braids, which means we started out with about >eight feet of thread between us. (Better think of something interesting >to talk about, though, 'cause it takes awhile.) > This is, of course, the other problem - once you've started, you can't put it down. Has anyone found a way of leaving it, hanging it up or pegging it on something? Jean >Speaking of fingerloop braiding, Noemi Spieser has, as the frontispiece >in her self-published book, a very nice black-and-white enlargement of >a detail of a rather obscure 1465 painting of the Virgin Mary from >Aragon, painted by Nicolás Zahortiga. It shows the Virgin and Child on >a high, gold throne, surrounded at the base by a host of female saints >employed in various domestic tasks (embroidering, winding yarn onto a >bobbin, etc.) Two in the foreground are clearly making a fingerloop >braid; one saint has the loops on her fingers while the other holds a >beater. (The saints' names are helpfully written on their haloes, but I >can't read them, since the scan that I have of it isn't very good.) > >The problems with short loops and uneven ends, OTOH, are right on. -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 16:10:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17897 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 16:10:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VJmJE28720; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:48:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJmGn29383; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJlpn29115 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:47:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H04006PBPNP6N@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:47:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity of Lucets In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020731124040.00d43370@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <02c101c237ba$df3e6c10$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> <02c101c237ba$df3e6c10$0cc9a8c0@mail2world.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:44:02 -0700 Status: RO You should write textbooks, if you don't already. That whole blurt of esoteric scholarship was very clearly put. I am visual and not verbally oriented (unless I have time to do major editing, like with e-mail), and I got every point on the first read. Nicely done, lady. Heather Rose Jones writes, in a message sent 09:29 AM 7/30/02 -0700: >At 4:18 AM -0700 7/30/02, freyalyn wrote: >>Teddy, you're quite right, I'll have to go home and check but I think I >>may find it harder that I thought. It's something I've "known" for so >>long I've forgotten where I've known it from. >> >>And again, like so many textile things in archaeology, who's going to >>keep a grotty old wooden tool when it's worn out - it's the sort of thing >>that gets chucked in the fire rather than the midden. > >On the other hand, we _do_ have direct evidence for other textile >techniques that became obsolete (or extremely rare and localized). Even if >we didn't have the enormous good luck of the surviving fingerloop-braiding >manuals, we have a lot of surviving cordage whose structure clearly >indicates that method of construction, as well as at least one medieval >painting showing the technique in progress. Art showing various handwork >techniques is not uncommon. A large variety of handwork tools survive >from burials or casual survivals in archaeological sites. A variety of >techniques are known only from chance survivals of the work itself. The >context for "doubt based on the absence of evidence" is that _if_ >lucet-work were as common and as widespread as the claims for it indicate, >a complete lack of surviving examples of the work, or representations of >the work, calls almost for conspiracy rather than simple apathy. > >On the other side, there are handwork techniques that we know _only_ from >one or two highly localized chance survivals -- techniques that wouldn't >have been recoverable by logical reasoning or argumentation. But >conversely, one can argue logically for the plausibility of techniques >that we can be extremely certain of the start-dates for (crochet being a >good example). What you end up with is a vast gap between techniques -- >no matter how unexpected -- for which we have direct evidence of historic >use; and techniques -- no matter how logical and plausible -- for which we >have no direct evidence of historic use. > >Heather >-- >***** >Heather Rose Jones >hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu >***** >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 16:11:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17902 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 16:11:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VJmVE28738; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:48:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJmTn29518; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VJlqn29129 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.2]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H04006PBPNP6N@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sausage curls & ringlets In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020731124501.00ca17e0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:45:43 -0700 Status: RO >Can anyone please tell me how to make sausage curls and ringlets? Every >time I try them I end up with very loose curls or very frizzy hair. Fake hair is period. I have seen a photograph of a Victorian wig with them. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 16:30:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18026 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 16:30:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VK8tE01383; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VK8qn12168; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:08:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.wiscmail.wisc.edu (blitzen.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.183]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VK7fn11482 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:07:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.104.90.215] by smtp3.doit.wisc.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.8 (built Jul 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H0400FUXQJHIC@smtp3.doit.wisc.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:06:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Barbara Wolff Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sausage curls & ringlets In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020731124501.00ca17e0@mail.frys.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <4.3.1.2.20020731124501.00ca17e0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:06:52 -0600 Status: RO May a confirmed lurker such as myself recommend a perm? I believe they have been available (in one form or another, with varying results?) since the 1880s. I myself have fine, limp, shoulder-length hair that has been called to heel beautifully with a curly perm. Haven't tried sausage curls myself, but I have no doubt I could achieve them w/a curling iron...in permed hair, of course! Good luck ~ Barbara -- Barbara Wolff University Communications University of Wisconsin-Madison (608) 262-8292 bjwolff@facstaff.wisc.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 18:01:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18491 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:01:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VLn8E13049; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:49:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VLn2n12575; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VLmln12428 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:48:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p157-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.206.157] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17a1Kl-0004xf-00; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:48:44 +1200 Message-ID: <005901c238dc$091496a0$9dceadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <000901c23876$e0310300$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sausage curls & ringlets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01C23940.9D96C870" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:48:40 +1200 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C23940.9D96C870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And just so you know everyone does have different needs;) 2. Dirty hair is the best to make any hairstyle. All the Miss = America contestants have dirty hair when one parade on TV at Atlanta = City. I find the opposite:) If my hair hasn't been washed it will not hold = anything. The oils seem to counteract anything I put in my hair. 5. Hair length: shoulder length to shoulder blade length make great = ringlets. Any longer hair, the ringlets start to look like dreadlocks = and they are likely to unwind near the scalp. Again I respectfully disagree, my hair is nearly long enough to sit on = and my ringlets are wonderful tight springy and full. All that hair = curls so well that I have managed to have curls like a young Shirley = Temple (you know close to the face and no longer than the base of the = neck) I use perm rods mostly and wear them over night. With minimal styling = product, but with dampened hair. The best is just after it's been washed = and partially dried. Not sopping wet or it will not dry even overnight = or all day. Otherwise pin curls, wrapping hair around a finger (or pencil for a = tight curl) and pinning it to the head as a sausage shape, not flattened = circle making sure the roll goes towards the hairline all the way around = starting from the crown, you get lift from the scalp that way. Actually = all curling methods should follow that pattern, it's the standard way to = roll even hair rollers for body rather than curl. Unless of course you = are after a pompadour where you roll towards the back of the head from = the hairline I used this for a show I was in as I needed to set my hair in the = morning to get curls by night ("Hair in ringlets is a must, Real irish = dancers have no bust"... a line I sang in the show so the curls were = integral). This way I could walk around town without looking too odd. = Just looked like Bubbles in the first episodes of AbFab. This way though = I used some hairspray, nothing more though as I hate setting products in = my hair. After having Brylcreme dust and matts put in my hair for = various Xena stints 've become very fussy about keeping my hair product = free. I lost several inches from that rough treatment and stress too of = course;) How you roll the hair makes a big difference too, if you twist it = slightly you don't get ringlets but corkscrew curls.To get ringlets you = need to make sure the hair is treated like a ribbon rather than a cord. Umm.. I think http://recital.tripod.com/costume/hannibal.htm shows curls achieved with = the perm rod method (no perm solution) but not left on for as long as = needed for actual ringlets. michaela ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C23940.9D96C870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
And just so you know everyone does have = different=20 needs;)
2.  Dirty hair is the best to make any hairstyle.  All = the Miss=20 America contestants have dirty hair when one parade on TV at = Atlanta=20 City.
I find the opposite:) If my = hair hasn't=20 been washed it will not hold anything. The oils seem to counteract = anything I=20 put in my hair.
5. Hair length:  shoulder length to shoulder blade length = make great=20 ringlets.  Any longer hair, the ringlets start to look like = dreadlocks=20 and they are likely to unwind near the scalp.
Again I respectfully = disagree, my hair is=20 nearly long enough to sit on and my ringlets are wonderful tight springy = and=20 full. All that hair curls so well that I have managed to have curls like = a young=20 Shirley Temple (you know close to the face and no longer than the base = of the=20 neck)
 
I use perm rods mostly and = wear them over=20 night. With minimal styling product, but with dampened hair. The best is = just=20 after it's been washed and partially dried. Not sopping wet or it will = not dry=20 even overnight or all day.
 
Otherwise pin curls, wrapping = hair around a=20 finger (or pencil for a tight curl) and pinning it to the head as a = sausage=20 shape, not flattened circle making sure the roll goes towards the = hairline all=20 the way around starting from the crown, you get lift from the scalp that = way.=20 Actually all curling methods should follow that pattern, it's the = standard way=20 to roll even hair rollers for body rather than curl. Unless of course = you are=20 after a pompadour where you roll towards the back of the head from the=20 hairline
 
I used this for a show I was = in as I needed=20 to set my hair in the morning to get curls by night ("Hair in ringlets = is a=20 must, Real irish dancers have no bust"... a line I sang in the show so = the curls=20 were integral). This way I could walk around town without looking too = odd. Just=20 looked like Bubbles in the first episodes of AbFab. This way though I = used some=20 hairspray, nothing more though as I hate setting products in my hair. = After=20 having Brylcreme dust and matts put in my hair for various Xena stints = 've=20 become very fussy about keeping my hair product free. I lost several = inches from=20 that rough treatment and stress too of course;)
 
How you roll the hair makes a = big=20 difference too, if you twist it slightly you don't get ringlets but = corkscrew=20 curls.To get ringlets you need to make sure the hair is treated like a = ribbon=20 rather than a cord.
 
Umm.. I think
http://recital.tr= ipod.com/costume/hannibal.htm=20 shows curls achieved with the perm rod method (no perm solution) but not = left on=20 for as long as needed for actual ringlets.
 
michaela
------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C23940.9D96C870-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 18:40:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18678 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:40:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g6VMT8E17139; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 16:29:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VMT4n06146; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 16:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6VMSTn05791 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 16:28:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C8A10EFEB for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D6C8D10EFB9 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002401c238e1$7e89c3b0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020731124501.00ca17e0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sausage curls & ringlets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:27:45 -0400 Status: RO I have long, fine, thick, straight hair. It laughs at perms. And haircuts. It grows so fast that I would have to have it cut/colored every three weeks in order to keep it styled. Therefore, most of the time I have what my sister calls "hippie hair"--it's down to my waist, parted in the middle (sometimes on the side) and it's own color of dark brown with lots of grey. I color it red sometimes for fun. If I hate it, what the heck. It's hair, it'll grow out. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Wolff" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sausage curls & ringlets > May a confirmed lurker such as myself recommend a perm? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 21:22:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19407 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:22:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g711A6E28235; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711A2n11770; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g7119In11463 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:09:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downward ([206.170.33.67]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0H05005TJ4JDRK@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:09:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <008001c238f8$0e202df0$4321aace@downward> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <20020719.073047.-217645.0.Cley@juno.com> <006001c22fb3$4e408d60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:09:14 -0700 Status: RO (Sorry for the delay in replying. I was away and came home to over 1,000 emails. I'm wading through as many as I can in three hour chunks of time but can only get to the computer 2-3 times per week.) I made a very simple apron with a bib for my first home ec project. We weren't allowed to use scissors so we had to tear the pieces. It did, however, teach us how important it was to use the grainlines. For our second project we made a boat-necked pull-over shirt with inset sleeves. Mine was of a cotton fabric that I have recently seen in fabric stores again. I wore it until I grew 2" and it didn't fit anymore. LynnD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shop and home economics > Did anyone make something in home ec that they could wear? In my first > class we made a jumper. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 21:40:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19455 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:40:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g711T3E29117; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711T2n17723; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711SJn17464 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:28:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip37.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.37] (may be forged)) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g711SGo02740 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:28:16 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1128 - 12 msgs Message-ID: <3D482D08.23060.2F193C25@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <20020731130913.93535.qmail@web40206.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:31:36 -0700 Status: RO > >There is also the issue of muscle strength and > >concentration on spreading the bows, especially at the > >beginning of the braid. If you are maxing out the > >length of the loops for one person to manipulate alone > >(probably approaching 2 feet), you need to tirelessly > >extend your arms out in a "fly" movement (term from > >the gym). It's not only important to move the loops > >correctly from finger to finger for each step, but to > >properly pull on them with steady tension and > >spreading. If you don't have someone to beat it down, > >you're entirely reliant on the spreading of the loops > >after each movement. This can build some serious > >muscle! > >I find that if I pay careful attention to tension and > >spreading the bows/loops, I get a rather > >even-tensioned, consistent braid. My posterior > >deltoids protest a bit, though. > > > >Tasha > > > Hey! Costuming as exercise, I like it! However, I think I would have > to find a way of jumping up and down at the same time, or my posterior > something else will spread to make up for it :-) > > Jean I still remember watching Colleen/Cainder (as her beater) when she was doing a really long couple of pieces of fingerloop braid. However, it wasn't her deltoids she complained about after. Rather it was her leg muscles from the lunges when she would do the bow. We figured out that the rhythm which seemed to work best was to a Strauss waltz! Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 21:40:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19459 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:40:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g711TGE29140; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711TFn17782; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:29:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711SMn17493 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip37.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.37] (may be forged)) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g711SJo02780 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:28:19 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shirt ties/aiglets; length of fingerloop braids Message-ID: <3D482D08.19188.2F193C74@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <52HgG3CVoDS9IwwI@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:31:36 -0700 Status: RO > >Hmmmm. Well, I can testify -- as a sometime other half of Heather's > >fingerloop-with-beating team -- that as far as I can tell, you get > >very little variation in tension if you have one person braiding > >while the person at the other end beats it down tight. I think we've > >produced a couple of six-foot-or-so braids, which means we started > >out with about eight feet of thread between us. (Better think of > >something interesting to talk about, though, 'cause it takes awhile.) > > > This is, of course, the other problem - once you've started, you can't > put it down. Has anyone found a way of leaving it, hanging it up or > pegging it on something? > > Jean When I was first practicing on fingerloop braiding (before I got faster at it), I was in the car as a passenger on the way home from Estrella War (a 2 day drive for us, even driving through the first night). If we had a stop (which was required and couldn't be coordinated with my loops being finished), I carefully pinned them to a pillow, then made sure that I picked up the loops the same way I put them down. It seemed to work very well. Then later, when I started doing really long loops using fine silk thread and couldn't wait a minute longer, I did the same. It seemed to work fairly well. Of course, I couldn't leave them for very long (like overnight) but then, I have 3 very curious string loving cats. ;) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 21:43:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19470 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:43:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g711W4E29344; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711W3n18714; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.47]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711VCn18332 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:31:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.40.118]) by mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020801013106.COCH11089.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 01:31:06 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020731182659.00a326e0@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Wedding dress of the Progressive/Aesthetic period Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:30:52 -0700 Status: RO Um, I posted a question with this same subject header about two weeks ago and, well, I never got any replies. Not even one that said "nope, sorry, doesn't ring any bells". I'm wondering if it never got posted. If that's what happened, or if it got missed somehow, I'll repost it, but I don't want to do that if it was seen but basically ignored. So what do I do now? By the way, has anyone had any progress with getting the Revolution In Fashion book from the Kyoto Costume Institute? Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 21:49:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19485 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:49:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g711b4E29632; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711b2n20328; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out018.verizon.net (out018pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.96]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6UJVCV25227 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:31:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out018 ([192.168.129.215]) by out018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20020730193106.IRXY5031.out018.verizon.net@out018>; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:31:06 -0500 From: To: h-costume@indra.com, Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] OT: Dual-Power Singers? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020730193106.IRXY5031.out018.verizon.net@out018> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:31:06 -0500 Status: RO > > I believe your aunt's story. I know Bernina still makes treadle machines > for sale in "developing" nations. Of course, they are purely mechanical, > not computerized machines. Singer does still make treadle sewing machines. They are offered in the Lohemann's catalog for non-electric living. They are rather expensive. My 1916 White was a quarter of the price and has a much nicer cabinet. Singer probably is the best way to go however if you intend to use an antique. Parts are far easier to come by. (Luckily the Singer belts fit the white!). Cheers, Ron _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 21:58:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19564 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:58:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g711l4E00317; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:47:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711l2n23286; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g711kTn23119 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:46:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20299 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:47:33 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wedding dress of the Progressive/Aesthetic period In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020731182659.00a326e0@postoffice.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:47:33 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Um, I posted a question with this same subject header about two weeks > ago and, well, I never got any replies. Not even one that said "nope, > sorry, doesn't ring any bells". I'm wondering if it never got posted. > If that's what happened, or if it got missed somehow, I'll repost it, > but I don't want to do that if it was seen but basically ignored. I saw it, but didn't answer because I had no answer. I wouldn't take the lack of response personally. I don't generally post a "Sorry, I don't know" message to questions that are outside my area, or I'd be filling people's mailboxes every day with "Sorry, I don't know." I think people would get heartily annoyed with me ;-) If people don't answer, you can bet that the ones reading at the time just didn't know. And when that happens, I don't think anyone minds if you try again some time later, when maybe you get a different mix of readers. I don't know what your specific question was, but I do know that all I know about this fashion movement is what's in Stella Mary Newton's book. Perhaps there will be leads for you in there, but I figure anyone interested in the Aesthetic movement probably has the obvious sources already! (The period is recent enough that you might find some microfilmed or archived fashion magazines in a good library. Or at a place like FIT if you're in NYC.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 22:33:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19766 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:33:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g712L3E02882; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g712L2n04841; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g712KMn04686 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:20:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-168-32-190.nyc.rr.com [24.168.32.190]) by nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g712Ie38004347 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:18:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Wedding dress of the Progressive/Aesthetic period Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020731182659.00a326e0@postoffice.att.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:21:34 -0300 Status: RO By the way, has anyone had any progress with getting the Revolution In Fashion book from the Kyoto Costume Institute? Julie Dear Julie I ordered the Revolution in Fashion from Kyoto through their web site and it's now sitting happily on my shelf. I was especially pleased to see that it's all in English, since my other two Kyoto books are mostly Japanese. It came to me via an expediter in California who billed me and accepted my check. What a lovely book! Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jul 31 22:50:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19834 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:50:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g712c4E03968; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g712c2n10324; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.89]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g712bDn10003 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-relay02.mac.com (smtp-relay02-en1 [10.13.10.225]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g712bCsB025236 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:37:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtp-relay02.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g712bCZH005984 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:37:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id H058LZ00.K42 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:37:11 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 From: Agnes G To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020731082345.22516.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Reform or Aesthetic Dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:37:47 -0700 Status: RO Have you looked at the La Mode Bagatelle Aesthetic Reform Tea Gown Pattern? I know some people have used it as a wedding dress. It's based roughly on garments in the V&A and other museums. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Aug 1 02:10:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25504 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 02:10:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g715xdE15934; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:59:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g715wwn06731; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g715vFn06319 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g715u1vY014916 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:56:02 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: <3D461A52.25C973@dandy.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:06:11 -0700 Status: RO The new one seems to have all the plates, 137 or so. Info: Codes Manesse: Die Miniaturen der Grossen Heidelberger Liederhandschrift Herausgegeben und erlaeutert von Ingo F. Walther unter Mitarbeit von Gisela Siebert Insel Sechste Auflage 2001 copyright Insel Verlag Frankfurt am Main 1988, Alle Rechte vorbehalten, Druck: Aprinta, Wemding Printed in Germany. I paid $30 for it when I picked it up from Master Terafan Gredragon while visiting him in Stuttgart. Try this link http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=sr_sp_go_qs/302-5453 223-3768035 The book pictured is the one I have and it is hard bound, and full "book" size. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of leigh tartaglio Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 9:47 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Manessische Liederhandschrift, was Re: [h-cost] Medieval cross-dressing? Hi. I only have the copy printed in 1953, which only has eighteen plates. If the new one has more illos, I am interested. Could you post the info, please? Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Aug 1 02:12:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26173 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 02:12:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g71617E16017; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g71613n07208; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g715x3n06753 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p232.directcon.net [209.233.107.232]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g715wYZg029531; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:58:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020731230353.00dde920@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] OT: Dual-Power Singers? In-Reply-To: <20020730193106.IRXY5031.out018.verizon.net@out018> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:03:53 -0700 Status: RO > > Singer does still make treadle sewing machines. They are offered in the Lohemann's catalog for non-electric living. They are rather expensive. If these are the ones that look just like an antique treadle machine, watch out! I was selling Singers at the time, about ten years ago, that the replica" treadle models were being introduced. My sales manager told me that they were being made with the lowest quality parts and engineering, as they were aimed at the "country decorating" crowd, with the expectation that they would only occasionally be sewn on. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On = Behalf Of=20 freyalyn
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 1:38 = AM
To:=20 h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shirt=20 ties/aiglets