From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 03:26:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20216 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 03:26:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g817S2WV010555; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 01:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g817S0j04597; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 01:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g817RJj04475 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 01:27:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A23F32CC020C; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 02:31:11 -0500 Message-ID: <00a501c25188$fdabebe0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] TV Alert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 03:27:12 -0400 Status: RO I was asked to remind you about the Drum Corp International competition is on PBS this weekend. It is airing in my town Sunday at 2:00, but the time may be different in your area. So check at www.pbs.org . The corp that did the great WW2/swing show that we saw last month came in third place. Their costumes are really fun! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 13:05:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28877 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:05:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g81H7PWV004337; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:07:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81H7Nj04506; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81GrSj01233 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:53:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-188.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.188]) by pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g81GrSr328316 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 12:53:28 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c251d8$3538dce0$bc2caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <002c01c251bd$597f9f00$5b9cef41@hppav> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to Browse Archive/OT crystallized ginger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 09:54:15 -0700 Status: RO I think you can always find it in Chinatown, if you have one in your city. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Do you not know I am a woman?. When I think, I must speak." As You Like It; III, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Genie" To: Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 6:41 AM Subject: [h-cost] How to Browse Archive/OT crystallized ginger > Where can you get this. I had some last summer and it's delicious. But, it > was homemade and when I asked for a recipe I was told it used a food > dehydrator in the final part of the process. Would health/natural food > shops carry this?? > > Genie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 13:06:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28887 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:06:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g81H7oWV004349; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:07:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81H7nj04668; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81GsBj01419 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=99main.com) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17lXzH-0006L6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 09:54:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3D7245BA.6050601@99main.com> From: Marilyn Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to Browse Archive/OT crystallized ginger References: <002c01c251bd$597f9f00$5b9cef41@hppav> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 12:52:10 -0400 Status: RO The best candied ginger I have ever bought came from Penzeys.com. I regularly buy it inthe largest size. It is in dice and ready to use in cookies, breads or as snack material ;-) I don't make it any more because the stuff I can buy is as good as I can make, and a lot less trouble! If you want to make it by yourself, look up a recipe on google or: take a nice hand of ginger, peel and slice into thin slices of about 1/4 inch. In a heavy sauce pan pour 2 cups of sugar and 1/2 cup of water and heat. Do not boil, you are not making candy you are making a hot syrup. When all of the sugar has melted into the scant amount of water, chuck in the slices of ginger. continue to barely simmer for several hours, until the ginger is translucent and soft. Take it off the heat and let sit over night. The next morning, take the slices of ginger out and coat them individually with sugar and set on a rack to dry. I put a piece of cheesecloth over all to keep flies and random cat hairs off. At this point, I suppose you could use a dehydrator, but a couple of days on a counter top work just fine for me. After they are dry, I put them into a jar full of granulated sugar so I get some ginger scented sugar to use in cooking. margali Genie wrote: > Where can you get this. I had some last summer and it's delicious. But, it > was homemade and when I asked for a recipe I was told it used a food > dehydrator in the final part of the process. Would health/natural food > shops carry this?? > > Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 13:15:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29113 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:15:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g81HHMWV004780; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81HHMj06884; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81Gxij02653 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-188.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.188]) by pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g81Gxir355382 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 12:59:44 -0400 Message-ID: <002501c251d9$1549daf0$bc2caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020831081515.00c764c0@mail.frys.com> <3D71B340.7F730F70@2xtreme.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 70s vintage/was website found in paper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:00:32 -0700 Status: RO Old you're not, Obi Wan, ('cause my corset fits just fine and I wanna keep it that way), but rich we'd be if we'd kept our nasty 70s stuff evidently...who knew those ugmo bright prints would fetch so much dinero? My baby sister wants an Emilio Pucci and I can't believe what they cost or that anyone would actually want to be seen in one...argh! Isn't the owner of that site on this list? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts." W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] website found in paper > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > >Our Saturday Lifestyle section of the paper had this website, > > >www.Enokiworld.com > > >They are a local couple who collected so much visiting estate sales they've > > >started a small business selling off the excess. Mostly high-end vintage > > >fashions, pricey, but the styles are interesting. > > > > Thanx for posting it. I went there and looked around. Interesting > > stuff. Not very historical, but then, I'm old. > > > > Kayta > > When I was younger, my mother use to bitch about "Happy Days" and the > 50's fashion trend. It really got her mad that all the things she use > to wear came back as "Vintage". At the time I believe I told her, to > cool it it's not a big deal. Looking at this site, I know how she > feels......... If dresses from the 70's are vintage, what does that make > me? (First person who say old, will be cursed to a life time in a > corset that is too small!) > > Stephen - Sending Roses to his Mother. > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm > > Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html > > Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com > Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings > Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 13:35:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29590 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:35:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g81HbNWV005407; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:37:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81HbNj11726; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:37:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12006.mail.yahoo.com (web12006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.214]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g81HKbj07685 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:20:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020901172036.40712.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.218] by web12006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 10:20:36 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] painting of Helena Snakenborg Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I've finally picked a project for the winter. One of my daughter's friends wants me to teach a corset making class for agora days at the high school so I shall start with the custom shift link on the Elizabethan costuming page and then use the custom corset patterns for the corset. If all goes well I'll teach the class in February. If I'm going to have the underpinnings I should have the gown. The painting of Helena Snakenborg at www.tudor-portraits.com really intrigues me as it looks as if the sleeves and the partlet? are of the same fabric. Opinions please as is this one garment? How do I get the closed neck open bodice? AlterYears patterns show something similar, would this work? Is this a printed fabric or some type of surface embellishment? If this is all one underdress what do I wear next to my skin to keep the brocade fresh. Would a printed peachskin work as the fabric looks drapey enough to gather at the neck? Thought, opinions, help? I can alter a pattern to fit my shape but I need to have the pattern piece to start from. On Eric's pregnancy bit. I was morning sick for six months with all three of my kids and never really found anything that worked. I ate alot of applesauce and bananas for breakfast. If the prenatal vitamins and iron are causing the naseau try taking them before sleeping so you can be queasy in your sleep. And you might as well give up on having sleep now. It's easier to get used to the sleep deprivation if you start ahead of time. ;) Cassandra having still no sleep even though everyone is now in double digits. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 13:46:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29900 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:46:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g81HmiWV005933; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81Hmgj14536; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:48:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f142.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.142]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g7T4EtT15933 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:14:49 -0700 Received: from 68.128.31.142 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 04:14:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.128.31.142] From: "Carole Newson-Smith" To: apprentice@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com, WKneedle@egroups.com, HistoricKnit@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Aug 2002 04:14:49.0893 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E050550:01C24F12] Subject: [h-cost] Redwood Weavers & Spinners Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:14:49 -0700 Status: RO You may recall that late in the Spring I told you about this group that wanted someone to do a program for them on the history of knitting. I deferred to you, and now they have it scheduled for their November meeting. Redwood Weavers meet on the second or third Wednesday - I don't recall which - and it's a daytime event which wouldn't work for me, even if I'd done the work, which I haven't. The lady who contacted me - Diane Cutler - tried the phone number for you that I had given her (or another member) at CNCH this spring. The number didn't work, and is probably way out of date. Would you please contact Diane at 707-545-1883 and tell her if you are interested? thanx, Cordelia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 16:10:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31061 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:10:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g81KCQWV011997; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:12:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81KCMj18186; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:12:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81JrJj13172 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp243.directcon.net [206.170.184.243]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g81JqhEs021374; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 12:52:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020901125455.010b5280@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] painting of Helena Snakenborg In-Reply-To: <20020901172036.40712.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 12:54:55 -0700 Status: RO The painting of >Helena Snakenborg at www.tudor-portraits.com really >intrigues me as it looks as if the sleeves and the >partlet? are of the same fabric. Opinions please as >is this one garment? I'm inclined to think that this is a shirt, or high necked smock, but it could be a seperate partlet and sleeves. How do I get the closed neck >open bodice? Do you mean the shirt, the way it's closed at the neck and then opens over the bosom? That's a front slit in the shirt, spread open and held in place by the tension of the bodice. Is this a printed fabric or >some type of surface embellishment? I'd seriously doubt if it's printed, my guess is embroidery. If this is all >one underdress what do I wear next to my skin to keep >the brocade fresh. Look just above the bodice at center front, and you can see a decorated band across the chest. That's the neck edge of a smock with a low square neck, worn under the shirt or partlet and sleeves. Would a printed peachskin work as >the fabric looks drapey enough to gather at the neck? I wouldn't use peachskin, it doesn't look like a natural fiber fabric, and you'd be much more comfortable with the real thing. Linen would be the best choice. >Thought, opinions, help? I can alter a pattern to fit >my shape but I need to have the pattern piece to start >from. In all modesty, I think your best bet for patterns can be found at margospatterns.com. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 16:11:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31065 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:11:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g81KD7WV012033; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81KD7j18339; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81JrKj13182 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:53:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp243.directcon.net [206.170.184.243]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g81JqhEs021374; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 12:52:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020901125455.010b5280@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] painting of Helena Snakenborg In-Reply-To: <20020901172036.40712.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 12:54:55 -0700 Status: RO The painting of >Helena Snakenborg at www.tudor-portraits.com really >intrigues me as it looks as if the sleeves and the >partlet? are of the same fabric. Opinions please as >is this one garment? I'm inclined to think that this is a shirt, or high necked smock, but it could be a seperate partlet and sleeves. How do I get the closed neck >open bodice? Do you mean the shirt, the way it's closed at the neck and then opens over the bosom? That's a front slit in the shirt, spread open and held in place by the tension of the bodice. Is this a printed fabric or >some type of surface embellishment? I'd seriously doubt if it's printed, my guess is embroidery. If this is all >one underdress what do I wear next to my skin to keep >the brocade fresh. Look just above the bodice at center front, and you can see a decorated band across the chest. That's the neck edge of a smock with a low square neck, worn under the shirt or partlet and sleeves. Would a printed peachskin work as >the fabric looks drapey enough to gather at the neck? I wouldn't use peachskin, it doesn't look like a natural fiber fabric, and you'd be much more comfortable with the real thing. Linen would be the best choice. >Thought, opinions, help? I can alter a pattern to fit >my shape but I need to have the pattern piece to start >from. In all modesty, I think your best bet for patterns can be found at margospatterns.com. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 17:41:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31350 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 17:41:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g81LhNWV015668; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81LhMj08764; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81LNij04470 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00808 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:30:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3D72862F.FEB69B82@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to Browse Archive/OT crystallized ginger References: <002c01c251bd$597f9f00$5b9cef41@hppav> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 14:27:12 -0700 Status: RO To Genie- Yes, it is delicious. I eat it even when I'm feeling fine, it makes me feel _finer_!!! I found it at Trader Joes (good australian stuff!!), at more upscale grocery stores (Draegers, Piazzas, maybe those are too local), also, Safeway has a more mundane offering. I'll bet health food stores would have it too. Good luck, Theresa Eacker Genie wrote: > > Where can you get this. I had some last summer and it's delicious. But, it > was homemade and when I asked for a recipe I was told it used a food > dehydrator in the final part of the process. Would health/natural food > shops carry this?? > > Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 18:10:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32033 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 18:10:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g81MCaWV016970; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:12:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81MCZj15777; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:12:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g81LpBj10581 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:51:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00895 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:57:58 -0700 Message-ID: <3D728C9B.5D89BAC5@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 70s vintage/was website found in paper References: <4.3.1.2.20020831081515.00c764c0@mail.frys.com> <3D71B340.7F730F70@2xtreme.net> <002501c251d9$1549daf0$bc2caf40@angelap3a8d978> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 14:54:37 -0700 Status: RO No, no, no, not old!!!! Wiser, smarter, more sagacious. Especially when the fashion industry is trying to squeeze us back into those hideous styles and we're too damn smart to fall for it!!! On another tangent, I can't help thinking about some future costumers oohing and aahing over that "wonderful, shiny, slinky stuff" the clothes were made of in the 70's. Remember _QUIANA_???? Yee gads. I can just see our futuristic brethern wracking their brains with a way to come up with a comparable textile to approximate the look. With any luck, those in the future will also be wise and sagacious and never invent anything so horrible again!!! Theresa Eacker Cabbage Rose wrote: (Snipping) > > Old you're not, Obi Wan, , but rich we'd be if we'd kept our nasty 70s stuff > evidently...who knew those ugmo bright prints would fetch so much dinero? > My baby sister wants an Emilio Pucci and I can't believe what they cost or > that anyone would actually want to be seen in one...argh! > > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >(Snipping) > > > >Our Saturday Lifestyle section of the paper had this website, > > > >www.Enokiworld.com > > > >They are a local couple who collected so much visiting estate sales they've > > > >started a small business selling off the excess. Mostly high-end vintage > > > >fashions, pricey, but the styles are interesting. > > > > > > Thanx for posting it. I went there and looked around. Interesting > > > stuff. Not very historical, but then, I'm old. > > > > > > Kayta > >(Snipping) . Looking at this site, If dresses from the 70's are vintage, what does that make > > me? (First person who say old, will be cursed to a life time in a > > corset that is too small!) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 20:33:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02733 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 20:33:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g820ZNWV023172; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 18:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g820ZJj18197; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 18:35:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from userweb.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g820Fqj14292 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 18:15:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954F410F3E5 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 20:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by userweb.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CAB0310F3D3 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 20:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <031801c25215$c6160d40$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020831081515.00c764c0@mail.frys.com> <3D71B340.7F730F70@2xtreme.net> <002501c251d9$1549daf0$bc2caf40@angelap3a8d978> <3D728C9B.5D89BAC5@misc.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 70s vintage/was website found in paper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 20:14:53 -0400 Status: RO My first wedding was in '81. The bridesmaids dresses were powder blue Qiana! And of course, the groomsmens' tuxes had to match...shudder.... It was very stylish then, but I cringe when I see it now! Dianne Remember _QUIANA_???? Yee gads. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 1 21:57:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04605 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:57:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g821xMWV026781; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 19:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g821xLj06834; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 19:59:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13806.mail.yahoo.com (web13806.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.16]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g821r4j05338 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 19:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020902015304.12521.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.178.140.233] by web13806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 18:53:04 PDT From: Jonna Hayden To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Removing Chrome Dye from Leather Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 18:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Greetings- Recently, my DH received a gift of a deer hide from my Grandmother--and his little blackpowder-heart pitter-pattered with delight. However, he's one of those "it must be period" kind of guys, so the color of the hide was, ahem, a bit on the yellow side. He asked his costumer wife if she had any ideas about how to remove the not-so-delightful shade from the skin. Since I'm elizabethan to the core, it has never occured to me to experiment with changing the color of leather--(I'd just buy it the right color to begin with!) so I'm a bit stymied here. I seem to recall that there's a method that involves bleach and a washing machine--but that's all I know. Any ideas? Jonna Hayden __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 00:09:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07985 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 00:08:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8249MWV002109; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8249Lj04757; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g823qpj01095 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:52:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H1S000H5LFUQ4@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 23:52:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D72DF24.8060603@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 22:46:44 -0500 Status: RO I am making a quilted/corded corset for the early 1800's. I am hoping that someone on this list will know what type of wood is best suited for the front busk? I have never used a wooden busk before, so am lost as to what wood to use, and how thick it should be. Have used reads, and metal clasp busks, and of course steel boning, but have no clue about wood. Anyone know ? Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 00:13:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08081 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 00:13:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g824DaWV002231; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:13:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g824Daj05693; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:13:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g823sJj01366 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.41.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.41]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17liI6-0000My-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 23:54:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fiber mixing in religious tradition (was: Sept-Oct Piecework) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 12:06:56 -0700 Status: RO At 12:27 AM -0500 9/1/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >I would be interested to know what procedures the testers use to >distinguish linen from other bast fibers (which apparently are not covered >by the rule) or even from cotton, particularly at that speed. I don't know >any reliable means of telling linen apart from other vegetable fibers in >blends. There are no testing labs in my area, though, although we have >plenty of Orthodox Jews here. Based on the list of locations (and the >stringency of the rules), I suspect this is a phenomenon primarily of the >Hasidic community. > >I'm tempted to write the contact address for some tips. I'll be interested to hear what they say. Hmmm. I don't have a book at hand that shows this, but if I recall correctly, a quick peek through an ordinary microscope makes telling linen and cotton fibers apart really easy. Linen fibers have "joints" like a grass stem, because they're made from a string of cells in the plant. Cotton fibers don't, because each hair is a single cell, so they are smooth, like a garden hose. Confirmation or correction of my fading botanical memories appreciated... -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 00:13:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08088 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 00:13:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g824DdWV002237; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g824Ddj05712; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g823sPj01401 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:54:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.41.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.41]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17liIC-0000My-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 23:54:24 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Inherited talent (WAS: Re-enacting the "norm") Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:24:06 -0700 Status: RO At 2:20 PM -0400 8/27/02, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: >On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: >> Hmmm.. that's fascinating, and I believe in this too, but how do you explain >> for example that I picked up a needle and was able to do >>embroidery as if I had >> done it all my life, but ONLY certain period embroideries, without it ever >> having been in either of my families (they were too poor ever to indulge in >> such fancies) while not having any knack for what IS in the families. > >(snip) > >Well, maybe it's not the ability to do embroidery, per se, but a general >ability or something... > >For instance, it's been discovered (my hubby tells me) that fighter pilots >are not infrequently good artists, as well. Something about a facility >for spatial relationships... It would make sense to me that this sort of >ability could be passed on within a bloodline. And if someone grew up in >an environment which also encouraged the further development of those >abilities (for a sailor, the ability to read the weather, for example), >then you'd say s/he was a 'born ____'. There's also the phenomenon I call "crafty hands" -- someone who's picked up a number of hand skills over the years is likely to find it easier to pick up new ones. You've developed your hand coordination to the point that your hands "know what to do" when you tell them to do something new. This also goes along with a measure of confidence that you _will_ be able to master a new skill, because you've successfully mastered others. And that undoubtedly helps too. As far as I know, if I've inherited any "hand ability" it probably comes from two generations of piano players (my grandmother and my dad). Oddly enough, although I'm definitely left handed, I can do certain things with my right hand that I can't do with my left -- pick up very tiny beads, for instance, or drum my fingers in both directions (little finger to thumb and vice versa). -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 00:40:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08664 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 00:40:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g824g3WV003255; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g824g2j11205; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g824J2j06836 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020902041901.3305.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.49.107.143] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:19:01 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Play on Words To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00ce01c24fe1$505cf360$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 14:19:01 +1000 (EST) Status: RO sorry this is late - I took a break from email for the weekend. You're welcome! That was my favourite too. :) Bella --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > Thank you Bella, I went with Menswear Etiquette. > Thank you so much! > > Penny Ladnier http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Now send & receive IMs on your mobile via SMS _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 02:32:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29000 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 02:32:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g826YiWV007112; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 00:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g826Yhj02471; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 00:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g826FFj28895 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 00:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-104-125.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.104.125]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AKK90027; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:15:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <012401c25248$870b8fc0$7d684ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3D72DF24.8060603@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:18:15 +0100 Status: RO >I am making a quilted/corded corset for the early 1800's. I am hoping that someone on this list will know what type of wood is best suited for the front busk? I have never used a wooden busk before, so am lost as to what wood to use, and how thick it should be. Have used reads, and metal clasp busks, and of course steel boning, but have no clue about wood. Personally I've used a 12 inch rukler which has worked well for me, I think it would be pine. I expect by choice you might go for something with more spring, maybe ash would be a good choice ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 03:50:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA31584 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 03:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g827qOWV009162; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 01:52:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g827qNj15759; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 01:52:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g827dDj13538 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 01:39:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020902073912.45964.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 08:39:12 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Bodice Daggers To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020829175125.01200100@pop.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:39:12 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Margo Anderson wrote: > I'm trying to track dwon the origin of the mythical "bodice daggers" that > used to be so ubiquitous at Ren Faires, etc. When I first encountered > them, I was told that they were a Hollywood invention. My question is, has > anyone ever seen a dagger worn down the front of a low-cut bodice in a movie? > > I know it's wrong, I'm jsut trying to figure out where it came from. Hmm... if memory serves me right (and I have been known to have been serverd VERY wrong by it) isn't Lady de Winter wearing one in one of the 1970s (with Michael York) Three Musketeer films? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 04:03:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32430 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 04:03:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8285NWV010055; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 02:05:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8285Mj18467; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 02:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g827hTj14237 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 01:43:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020902074329.54229.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 08:43:29 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Disappointment! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5E85EF95645@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:43:29 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > I've sent a sample of the dyed off-cut to the trader who sold it to > me. He was obviously sold a dud and he'll no doubt want to offer > me some form of recompense for having (unknowingly) sold it on > to me (he's had it happen before with fabric sold to him as linen) > but even so.... Oh no!!! I'm so sorry to hear this Teddy and equally glad that you told us before I went and bought some too to dye. What a shame. Ali is nice, I am sure he'll do something about your mis-purchase. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 04:06:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32504 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 04:06:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8288FWV010127; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 02:08:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8288Ej19130; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 02:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g827k1j14702 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 01:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020902074600.33175.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 08:46:00 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Cynthia Virtue's twins! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5E2FF8D2842@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:46:00 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > For those of you who don't know already, Cynthia Virtue has twins > who are keeping her from resubscribing to the list at the moment > but, she assures me, she will re-join h-costume eventually. > > For some proof that she is still costuming take a look at her > adorable twins in their tunics and hoods..... > > http://www.thibault.org/babies/April.html *SQUEEEEEEEEALS*!!! I have NEVER seen such CUTE kiddos in those tunics and hoods, my my, if I didn't usually think that the only way I like children is roasted on a spit with barbecue sauce, I might even think about adding one or two just so that I can costume them. *L* Super pics, thanks teddy for sending them. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 05:00:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01397 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 05:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82924WV011603; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 03:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82922j28721; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 03:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g828a8j24171 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 02:36:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA06856.; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:37:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 09:36:06 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Yesterday's digest(s)? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g828a8j24171 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 09:35:54 +0100 Status: RO I seem to have had an email problem too. I took a long weekend over Bank Holiday (23-27 August) and then was unexpectedly away from my desk on Wednesday as well. Reading through the backlog of H-Costume posts, I found that they stopped with one dated Aug. 25th and I didn't get any more during Thursday or Friday. (I did accidentally disable messages for a short time as I mis-read the options on the website and thought I *had* been disabled). Have received some more today, but not very many. Was the list much quieter last week than it had been recently? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> ddoug@catrio.org 08/29/02 02:35pm >>> I had a little bit of an email problem yesterday and lost most of the posts from this group from about 11am to 10pm Central. I have found that the archives aren't very useful for retrieving recent posts. So I was wondering if anyone out there might still have the digest(s) from yesterday, Aug. 28th, and if they would be willing to send them to me at ddoug@catrio.org Many thanks to any who can help and apologies to any who can't. -Debra -- .------------------------------------------------------------------. |Debra Douglass ddoug@catrio.org http://www.catrio.org| `------------------------------------------------------------------' _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 07:26:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09291 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:26:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82BQ7WV015225; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 05:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82BQ3j22416; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 05:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82AvGj17465 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 04:57:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM0W31XL3400E5K8@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:57:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM0W2Z5ESK00DNB0@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:57:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:55:05 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:55:00 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.25) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:54:57 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] painting of Helena Snakenborg In-reply-to: <20020901180007.17315.81535.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <6439A985A73@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:54:57 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > If I'm going to have the > underpinnings I should have the gown. The painting of > Helena Snakenborg at www.tudor-portraits.com really > intrigues me as it looks as if the sleeves and the > partlet? are of the same fabric. Opinions please How about the URL of the actual painting so we can go straight to it without having to search through all the ones listed on that site to find it? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 10:58:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16766 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:58:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82F0PWV022525; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:00:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82F0Nj04300; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:00:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82Abcj14432 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 04:37:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82AZswS015293 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 03:36:00 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Fiber identification was Fiber mixing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 03:47:43 -0700 Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: Hmmm. I don't have a book at hand that shows this, but if I recall correctly, a quick peek through an ordinary microscope makes telling linen and cotton fibers apart really easy. Linen fibers have "joints" like a grass stem, because they're made from a string of cells in the plant. Cotton fibers don't, because each hair is a single cell, so they are smooth, like a garden hose. Confirmation or correction of my fading botanical memories appreciated... -------------------------------- I spent some time at Fabric Depot this weekend in their outdoor sale area. So many things to my inexpert eye looked like it could have been linen, or linen blend. I'm just wondering if there is any handheld lens that would allow one to look at fibers and see "joints" in linen, or scales for wool (though that's less of a problem). Ideas, anyone? Regina Romsey I had my car's alignment checked. It's chaotic evil. -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 10:58:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16774 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82F0kWV022543; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82F0kj04401; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82Ctaj08701 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 06:55:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A0B33D5F0282; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 07:59:31 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c25280$46696900$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Its Finished!!!!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:57:19 -0400 Status: RO We have the A Year in Fashion: 1910: Menswear complete!!!!!! YIPPEE!!!! It includes two catalogs, one for men's suits and another with men's shoes. You might want to look at the men's shoes, some look like women's shoes. Here is the URL: http://www.costumegallery.com/1910/Men/Suits/ The Prince Albert Overcoat is really nice too! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 10:59:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16781 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:59:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82F0vWV022573; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82F0vj04493; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40012.mail.yahoo.com (web40012.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.30]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g82DCAj11922 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020902131205.73393.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:12:05 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: H-costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Request for digest 1182 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 14:12:05 +0100 (BST) Status: RO I seemed to have missed out on a digest and am anxious to get a copy of it. It's a few weeks old I think but if anyone has a copy of digest #1182 could they please email it to me. I can't find a way of requesting old digests from mailman. Thanks Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 10:59:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16794 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:59:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82F1IWV022624; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82F1Ij04622; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21308.mail.yahoo.com (web21308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.174]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g82DZ9j16200 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020902133509.20470.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.25.106.133] by web21308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 06:35:09 PDT From: kate To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <6439A985A73@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: url for painting of Helena Snakenborg Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: ailith@noe.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 06:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > How about the URL of the actual painting so we can > go straight to it > without having to search through all the ones listed > on that site to > find it? Even though I didn't post the original query...here's the url: http://www.tudor-portraits.com/T%20Helena%20Snakenborg.jpg kate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 12:02:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17187 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:02:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82G3MWV025548; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:03:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82G3Lj19521; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:03:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82FlEj15501 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:47:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oo4aJGSUjc5DOFSt1xW0PQw="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id HBQBQAFG; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:46:19 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Bodice Daggers Message-ID: <20020902.084610.-213645.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:30:49 +0000 Status: RO Bodice daggers: I remember that too. Arlys > Hmm... if memory serves me right (and I have been known to have been > serverd > VERY wrong by it) isn't Lady de Winter wearing one in one of the > 1970s (with > Michael York) Three Musketeer films? > > Nicole ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 12:10:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17206 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:10:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82GCMWV026116; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:12:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82GCLj21818; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82G0Jj18770 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:00:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.3.141] (p29.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.141]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05720 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:58:42 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fiber identification was Fiber mixing From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 09:48:18 -0600 Status: RO on 9/2/02 4:47 AM, Wanda Pease at wandap@hevanet.com wrote: > -------------------------------- > I spent some time at Fabric Depot this weekend in their outdoor sale area. > So many things to my inexpert eye looked like it could have been linen, or > linen blend. I'm just wondering if there is any handheld lens that would > allow one to look at fibers and see "joints" in linen, or scales for wool > (though that's less of a problem). > > Ideas, anyone? > >I have a linen tester which is a very small magnifying glass made just to use with fabric. I'll have to get it out and try it with some linen and cotton. I don't know if it magnifies well enough to tell the difference. Sylvia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 13:32:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17540 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 13:32:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82HYPWV000535; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:34:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82HYNj12194; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:34:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82HFYj07818 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:15:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-47-8.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.47.8]) by pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g82HFXr552824 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 13:15:33 -0400 Message-ID: <002601c252a4$76813a90$082faf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <000d01c25280$46696900$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Its Finished!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:16:22 -0700 Status: RO Penny May I just say thank you from theater costumers everywhere? I realize that reenactors may from time to time need to research this period or the others you provide, but I have had occasion to need them all. It's always a pet peeve of mine to research a decade and find something 10 years off either way. Most audience member wouldn't know the dif, but I do and it drives me nuts. Knowing something is correct for a specific year, nevermind a decade is fabulous, as well as fascinating to watch the trends change. Bless your crazy clothing obsessed heart for making this site such a useful tool. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts." W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 5:57 AM Subject: [h-cost] Its Finished!!!!! > We have the A Year in Fashion: 1910: Menswear complete!!!!!! YIPPEE!!!! > It includes two catalogs, one for men's suits and another with men's shoes. > You might want to look at the men's shoes, some look like women's shoes. > Here is the URL: > http://www.costumegallery.com/1910/Men/Suits/ The Prince Albert Overcoat is > really nice too! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 14:24:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17750 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 14:24:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82IQWWV003466; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:26:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82IQWj25917; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:26:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82I9Cj21213 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H1T00KUKP35B9@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:09:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D73A7DB.8020706@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset addendum Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 13:03:07 -0500 Status: RO I am looking for a historic perspective on the busk, not a modern day alternative. My son (the art student) can plane down any wood we want, so I would rather go with something that is documented as what was used. I'm going through my books, but was hoping someone had some practical experience with some. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 14:24:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17754 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 14:24:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82IQaWV003491; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:26:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82IQZj25969; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:26:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82IEdj22727 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.60]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H1T00BLUPCDTN@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:14:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset In-reply-to: <3D72DF24.8060603@comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020902104432.04c7ee20@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:09:12 -0700 Status: RO >I am making a quilted/corded corset for the early 1800's. I am hoping >that someone on this list will know what type of wood is best suited for >the front busk? I have never used a wooden busk before, so am lost as to >what wood to use, and how thick it should be. >Have used reads, and metal clasp busks, and of course steel boning, but >have no clue about wood. >Anyone know ? I did something like that, using a slat from a fruit crate I found at a local farmer's market. I had to search to find a crate of wood with a close grain and not too splintery or too thin, but there were piles of crates to choose from, behind the market stalls. The crate had originally held something like grapes or tomatoes, and the wood was about 1/4 inch thick. I don't know what kind of wood it was because it was from somewhere in South America. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 17:03:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18462 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:03:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82L5CWV011297; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 15:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82L54j08086; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 15:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82KiNj03116 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 14:44:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g82Ki54k010880 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 13:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200209022044.g82Ki54k010880@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D72DF24.8060603@comcast.net> from "Linda J. Thompson" at Sep 01, 2002 10:46:44 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 13:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I don't know about period specifics, but for good thickness and support and something easy to get, I've often heard paint stir sticks (the kind they give you free at the hardware store) make excellent busks. .heather. > > I am making a quilted/corded corset for the early 1800's. I am hoping that someone on > this list will know what type of wood is best suited for the front busk? I have never > used a wooden busk before, so am lost as to what wood to use, and how thick it should be. > Have used reads, and metal clasp busks, and of course steel boning, but have no clue about > wood. > Anyone know ? > > Linda Thompson > > Visit www.seams-to-be.com > where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 18:00:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18737 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 18:00:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g82M2PWV014623; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 16:02:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g82M2Mj23701; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 16:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from latte.2xtreme.net (latte.2xtreme.net [66.250.18.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g82Li8j18999 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 15:44:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 4193 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2002 22:10:12 -0000 Received: from 66-81-49-251-modem.o1.com (HELO 2xtreme.net) (66.81.49.251) by latte.2xtreme.net with SMTP; 2 Sep 2002 22:10:12 -0000 Message-ID: <3D73D8F9.70927C6@2xtreme.net> From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset addendum References: <3D73A7DB.8020706@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:32:41 -0700 Status: RO "Linda J. Thompson" wrote: > > I am looking for a historic perspective on the busk, not a modern day alternative. > My son (the art student) can plane down any wood we want, so I would rather go with > something that is documented as what was used. I'm going through my books, but was hoping > someone had some practical experience with some. > -- > Linda Thompson > > Visit www.seams-to-be.com > where Attitude is Everything > It has been my experience that you need a soft, hard wood. Something that can be shaped by the warmth of your body, but still hold for the most part it's shape. The one lady here who has a busk in her 1840's corset made of yew wood, I think. It was the same wood used to make bows. It will bend when needed, but springs back when she straightens up. -- Stephen Bergdahl www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 20:49:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19616 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:49:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g830pNWV022459; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 18:51:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g830pLj04576; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 18:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g830dtj01608 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 18:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip169.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.169]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g830dqV3023777 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209030039.g830dqV3023777@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Removing Chrome Dye from Leather In-Reply-To: <20020902015304.12521.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 20:38:35 -0400 Status: RO I haven't tried this myself, but someone told me that you can use RIT dye remover to get some dyes out of leather. If you try it, please report back! Cheers, Mara At 06:53 PM 9/1/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings- > >Recently, my DH received a gift of a deer hide from my >Grandmother--and his little blackpowder-heart >pitter-pattered with delight. However, he's one of those >"it must be period" kind of guys, so the color of the hide >was, ahem, a bit on the yellow side. He asked his costumer >wife if she had any ideas about how to remove the >not-so-delightful shade from the skin. Since I'm >elizabethan to the core, it has never occured to me to >experiment with changing the color of leather--(I'd just >buy it the right color to begin with!) so I'm a bit stymied >here. I seem to recall that there's a method that involves >bleach and a washing machine--but that's all I know. > >Any ideas? > >Jonna Hayden Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 21:15:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19749 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:15:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g831HMWV023690; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831HMj10855; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831ANj09273 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.124.16004711 (3948) for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:10:16 -0400 (EDT) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: <124.16004711.2aa565f7@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Subject: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:10:15 EDT Status: RO For Melanie, Alter Years - www.alteryears.com -- sells the wooden busks for corsets. They have a wood busk for early 1800s corsets -- ash wood 2" x 1/4" x 18" for $4.00 There is also a tapered wooden busk of ash wood, fully finished with tie hole. 2" wide at top, flat back, gently curved from. Excellent for 16-18 century corsets and bodices. State length: 8",9", 10" 11" or 12" -- $12.00. Their address is: Alter Years, 8960 E. Huntington Dr., San Gabriel, CA 91775-1267. Phone (626) 614-9400. Fax (626) 614-9499. They have most corseting and costuming supplies. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 21:32:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19773 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:32:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g831YMWV024557; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831YMj15338; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831OUj12870 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:24:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip169.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.169]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g831OSV3000562 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209030124.g831OSV3000562@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] Black handkerchief-weight linen -- suggestions? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:23:11 -0400 Status: RO Ok, folks, time for some brainstorming :) I happened across bolt (well, 13 yds.) of 45" wide 100% linen, handkerchief-weight, on the clearance table at Hancock Fabrics recently, so I bought it all (evil laugh). If it were white, I'd have no trouble figuring out what to do with it (I can always use another shift or neckerchief), but it's black -- a lovely, shiny black. I've got a few ideas percolating in my brain about what to do with it, but thought I'd ask for suggestions. I do events set in the 1630s, 1745, 1812, and (one of these days) 1870. Was linen used for women's dresses in the late 1800s? How about the 1900s to 1920s? I've been looking for an excuse to make an Edwardian endsemble... Cheers, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 21:32:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19777 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:32:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g831YUWV024579; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:34:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831YUj15396; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:34:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831Dlj10060 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip169.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.169]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g831DjV3028994 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209030113.g831DjV3028994@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset In-Reply-To: <3D72DF24.8060603@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:12:29 -0400 Status: RO Linda, I'm not certain what wood was used in the early 1800s, but my guess would be ash or oak. I wouldn't want a very soft wood -- I used basswood (aka linden wood) for a busk once, and it wound up being way too flexible. When it absorbed moisture, it would curl outward lengthwise, which gave it a very odd shape, like a 'c'. I could turn it the other way and it'd curl in the opposite direction eventually. Here are a couple of examples: http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18t h/lingerie18.html My woodworker hubby says this looks like either oak or ash, but probably oak, due to the color and grain pattern. http://www.civilization.ca/tresors/treasure/117eng.html http://www.austintmillerantiques.com/scrim_rm1pos8.htm Cheers, Mara At 10:46 PM 9/1/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I am making a quilted/corded corset for the early 1800's. I am hoping that someone on >this list will know what type of wood is best suited for the front busk? I have never >used a wooden busk before, so am lost as to what wood to use, and how thick it should be. >Have used reads, and metal clasp busks, and of course steel boning, but have no clue about >wood. >Anyone know ? > >Linda Thompson Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 21:32:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19782 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g831YXWV024594; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:34:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831YXj15427; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:34:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831GTj10682 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AE591A4C01D0; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 20:20:25 -0500 Message-ID: <005301c252e7$c866d2a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000d01c25280$46696900$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <002601c252a4$76813a90$082faf40@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Its Finished!!!!! X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:18:16 -0400 Status: RO Angela, I am so glad you are happy with the site. Susan and I look at it as an adventure to uncover our past fashions. We get a thrill of restoring the artwork to look as good as it did when it was originally printed. We all know the silhouette of a period but it is great to find details... did you look at the embellishment page and click on each sleeve. I love finding details like these. These were a treasure find for me. Gosh, I wish suit coats had this kind of detailing today. Manufacturers are in such a rush to make everything today. BTW, these manufacturers of coats and shoes were the largest suppliers in the world at the time. I was amazed by the different leathers used in the shoes. Susan is working on a ladies shoe catalog from 1922. I can't wait to see it. I bought it and had it sent to her. She has a passion for shoes. Her catalog tells you the styles, even down to the style of heels. When I was in college studying costume design, my professor sent me to our university rare book collection. I had to leave everything outside of the collection vault. I couldn't even take a piece of paper to write on to view the 19th Century fashion magazines. A person stood beside me to turn the pages. That was when I decided there had to be an easier way to be able to research past fashions. Yes, a light bulb glowed above my head. Susan and I are working on the 1923 band uniform website. I watched the Drum Corp International competition yesterday with a different view. I was looking at all the different details of the uniforms and was thrilled to know to official names of all the accessories. Sounds dumb to get excited over something so little... but I had learned something new and used it! Our goal is to present these original publications online for people to study so that they will know more than just what the silhouette looks like. We feel if we present this information in a forum where a multitude of people can study, maybe the quality of costume presentation in film, theater, television, historic sites, etc. will become more accurate. And the site does attract these types of visitors. And Angela, there are people like me, who go up to the actors at the end of a play to look at their costumes close-up. So please don't feel that all your hard work isn't appreciated. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 21:48:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19828 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:48:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g831o5WV025350; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831o5j19274; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831Srj13994 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:28:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-38.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.38] helo=megan2) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17m2Uu-0000uD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:28:52 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric help, oop Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3D710A08.1050702@99main.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:11:28 -0400 Status: RO http://www.silhouettes.com/ These folks are one of my favorite places to shop. They have a print catalog, and I have bought many of my linen shirts from them. Some stuff is polyester, but the quality is miles above some of the "other" catalogs. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 21:48:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19832 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:48:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g831oCWV025363; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831oCj19321; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831VEj14568 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:31:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.233.143.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.143] helo=[63.53.233.41]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17m2XA-00066k-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:31:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] OOPS! Re: Fiber identification Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:50:30 -0700 Status: RO At 9:48 AM -0600 9/2/02, sylvia wrote: >on 9/2/02 4:47 AM, Wanda Pease at wandap@hevanet.com wrote: > > >> -------------------------------- >> I spent some time at Fabric Depot this weekend in their outdoor sale area. >> So many things to my inexpert eye looked like it could have been linen, or >> linen blend. I'm just wondering if there is any handheld lens that would >> allow one to look at fibers and see "joints" in linen, or scales for wool >> (though that's less of a problem). >> >> Ideas, anyone? >> >>I have a linen tester which is a very small magnifying glass made just to use >with fabric. I'll have to get it out and try it with some linen and cotton. >I don't know if it magnifies well enough to tell the difference. Probably not; most hand magnifiers are 2x, 5x or 10x, and what I remember seeing is at about 100x. Furthermore, it appears I was wrong about linen fibers (though still right about cotton). Fibers in wood often are jointed, but not those of linen -- they are composed of a bundle of long thin single cells, tapered at the ends. I am guessing that you could still tell them from cotton under a microscope because they have very thick cell walls (up to 90% of the width of the fiber -- leaving just a small open channel in the middle of the cell) and I don't think cotton fibers do that. Makes me wish I had kept a few more botany textbooks, though.... -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 22:01:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19862 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:01:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83233WV026108; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83232j22581; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831eLj16821 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2030.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.30]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g831eHqO026375 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:40:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3D7410DC.1DB89533@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Removing Chrome Dye from Leather References: <20020902015304.12521.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:31:08 -0400 Status: RO Hi. It depends if your husband is really trying to be "period", because then the hide is really worthless (it sholud be brain-tanned or smoked or both). I have found that soaking it in water gets out some of the excess color, as well as soaking it in alcohol (the primary solvent for a lot of dyes used for leather). Some dye removers could work, provided the main ingredient weren't some sort of bleaching agent, which will probably drag any moisture out of the hide. If it does work, and even if you try the water or alcohol, make sure you re-hydrate the hide with some sort of lubricant, such as neatsfoot oil. The problem with chrome-dyed leather is that, inside, and wherever it gets cut, you will see the steely blue-gray caused by the process. You may want to overdye with a darker color, to hide the yellow. Make sure you do everything to it that will happen out in the field (getting wet, rubbing up against his coat, etc.) at home first, to see if the dye will come off first, so no surprises later. Worst case, contact a big leather place like Tandy for any product they may have. They may help, they might just want to sell you something...who knows? Good Luck, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 22:01:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19866 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:01:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8323MWV026118; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:03:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8323Mj22670; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:03:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831ffj17062 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.174.dd5d5db (4340) for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:41:27 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <174.dd5d5db.2aa56d46@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset addendum To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_174.dd5d5db.2aa56d46_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:41:26 EDT Status: RO --part1_174.dd5d5db.2aa56d46_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/2/2002 2:27:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LindaJThompson@comcast.net writes: > I am looking for a historic perspective on the busk, not a modern day > alternative. > My son (the art student) can plane down any wood we want, so I would rather > go with > something that is documented as what was used. I'll bet any "common" wood like oak or ash. I suppose one could use pine. It's soft. What about cedar? Keep the moths out of it...... I actually have a corset from this period with the busk in it. It is completely sewn in so I'd have to take out original hand stitching to see it. I don't know what wood it's made from. It is hard and rigid. I can tell you that it is slightly curved. I mean, if you look at it in profile, it has a very shallow "S" shape. Gently curving out for the bust, then coming in a little for the waist the out again for the lower part. Not unlike a spoon busk of the 1880s. [because the corset comes way down on the hips, the in curve for the waist is nearer the top] The busk is 2" wide all the way down [not wider at the bottom like a spoon busk] and a little more than 1/4" thick. All the edges are rounded. --part1_174.dd5d5db.2aa56d46_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/2/2002 2:27:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LindaJThompson@comcast.net writes:


I am looking for a historic perspective on the busk, not a modern day alternative.
My son (the art student) can plane down any wood we want, so I would rather go with
something that is documented as what was used.


I'll bet any "common" wood like oak or ash. I suppose one could use pine. It's soft. What about cedar? Keep the moths out of it......

I actually have a corset from this period with the busk in it. It is completely sewn in so I'd have to take out original hand stitching to see it. I don't know what wood it's made from. It is hard and rigid. I can tell you that it is slightly curved. I mean, if you look at it in profile, it has a very shallow "S" shape. Gently curving out for the bust, then coming in a little for the waist the out again for the lower part. Not unlike a spoon busk of the 1880s. [because the corset comes way down on the hips, the in curve for the waist is nearer the top] The busk is 2" wide all the way down [not wider at the bottom like a spoon busk] and a little more than 1/4" thick. All the edges are rounded. --part1_174.dd5d5db.2aa56d46_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 22:07:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19931 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:07:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8329MWV026456; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8329Lj24164; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g831p3j19611 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pvil2030.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.237.30]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g831oxqO010132 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:51:00 -0400 Message-ID: <3D74135E.4DE1F5D4@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] cross dressing soldiers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:41:50 -0400 Status: RO > Bonnie also has recommended Polly Brooks' "Beyond the Myth: The Story of > Joan of Arc," and Regine Pernoud's "Joan of Arc: Her Story." This was > about three years ago, so there are probably other good sources since > then. Hi, All. You might also want to read Marina Warner's "Joan of Arc; The Image of Female Heroism". It contains many discussions regarding the whys and wherefores of Joan's clothing choices. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 22:27:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20022 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:27:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g832TLWV027260; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g832TLj29256; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12001.mail.yahoo.com (web12001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8325aj23217 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020903020535.45208.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.223] by web12001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:05:35 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] painting of Helena Snakenborg Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Thanks Kate for getting the URL out so quick. I'm not usually on-line over the weekend. Margo If I make a straight smock with a high neck and a front slit how will it get pulled open. It seems that if I just count on the mountains *L* to hold the front open then it wouldn't be very comfortable to wear. What kind of embroidery would you think this is? Definitely not blackwork. And what kind of a grid would it be on? I don't do well with just random placement of motifs for embroidery or beading but I can handle diagonal diamonds or squares or half offset diamonds or whatever. I did find some nice linen today but the shopkeeper said she had just ordered more weights and colors so I may wait to see what comes in and then I don't have to risk trying to dye and undye the piece she has on hand. She did have a heavier weight piece of linen and silk (45/55) which I would consider dressweight. Is combining linen and silk fibers period? Time to get ready for work. Thanks. Cassandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 22:50:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20124 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:50:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g832qVWV028447; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g832qUj05446; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from latte.2xtreme.net (latte.2xtreme.net [66.250.18.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g832Z0j01060 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 5493 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2002 03:00:53 -0000 Received: from 66-81-46-45-modem.o1.com (HELO 2xtreme.net) (66.81.46.45) by latte.2xtreme.net with SMTP; 3 Sep 2002 03:00:53 -0000 Message-ID: <3D741D02.F61C793B@2xtreme.net> From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Black handkerchief-weight linen -- suggestions? References: <200209030124.g831OSV3000562@saltmine.radix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:22:58 -0700 Status: RO Kevin + Mara Riley wrote: > > Ok, folks, time for some brainstorming :) > > I happened across bolt (well, 13 yds.) of 45" wide 100% linen, > handkerchief-weight, on the clearance table at Hancock Fabrics recently, so > I bought it all (evil laugh). > > If it were white, I'd have no trouble figuring out what to do with it (I > can always use another shift or neckerchief), but it's black -- a lovely, > shiny black. > > I've got a few ideas percolating in my brain about what to do with it, but > thought I'd ask for suggestions. I do events set in the 1630s, 1745, 1812, > and (one of these days) 1870. Was linen used for women's dresses in the > late 1800s? How about the 1900s to 1920s? I've been looking for an excuse > to make an Edwardian endsemble... > > Cheers, Mara, how shiny? If it's not too bright you could make a Edwardian half morning. Pair it with a soft lavender as trim, collar and sleeves. It would be stunning. Stephen Bergdahl www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 2 22:50:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20128 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:50:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g832qeWV028458; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g832qej05493; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40203.mail.yahoo.com (web40203.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.64]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g832gdj02940 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020903024234.42938.qmail@web40203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.24.175] by web40203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:42:34 PDT From: Tasha McGann To: Costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Buried Norsemen book? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Greetings list folk, Does anyone know whether or not the title _Viking Settlers in Greenland and Their Descendants During Five Hundred Years_ by Poul Norlund is the same book that I've heard referred to as "Buried Norsemen..."? If not, can anyone give a concise rundown on the differences between the books (i.e. what info they contain)? Thanks in advance for any discussion on this topic, Tasha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 00:46:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20829 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:46:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g834mNWV004011; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g834mMj04573; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:48:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g834RJj29772 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:27:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01111 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:30:11 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buried Norsemen book? In-Reply-To: <20020903024234.42938.qmail@web40203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:30:11 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Tasha McGann wrote: > Does anyone know whether or not the title _Viking Settlers in > Greenland and Their Descendants During Five Hundred Years_ by Poul > Norlund is the same book that I've heard referred to as "Buried > Norsemen..."? If not, can anyone give a concise rundown on the > differences between the books (i.e. what info they contain)? Two different books. I haven't seen "Viking Settlers," but my vague recollection is that it's a shorter, more popularized version of the full study report ("Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes") from the Greenland expedition. I bet Heather can tell us more. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 00:59:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20880 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:59:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8351UWV004506; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:01:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8351Uj07614; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:01:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g834hfj03470 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.118]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g834h8Es008785; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:43:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020902214811.0145e690@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] painting of Helena Snakenborg In-Reply-To: <20020903020535.45208.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:48:11 -0700 Status: RO At 07:05 PM 09/02/2002 -0700, Cascio Michael wrote: > Margo If I make a straight smock with a high >neck and a front slit how will it get pulled open. It >seems that if I just count on the mountains *L* to >hold the front open then it wouldn't be very >comfortable to wear. The bodice should be tight enough to hold it in place. The order of layers would be, skin, low necked smock, pair of bodies (corset), shirt or partlet, bodice. No, it's not comfortable to wear by modern T-shirt standards, but it's not acutely uncomfortable to wear. What kind of embroidery would >you think this is? I've never seen a reproduction of the painting tht's detailed enough to tell the type of embroidery, but going by what was popular at the time, my money's on detached buttonhole stitches. This is the style that later developed into three dimensional stumpwork. For a nice introduction to the technique, check out "exploring Elizabethan Embroidery" by Dorothy Clarke. ISBN 0-473-03634-7 . And what >kind of a grid would it be on? I don't do well with >just random placement of motifs for embroidery or >beading but I can handle diagonal diamonds or squares >or half offset diamonds or whatever. It looks to me like the motifs are placed in diagonal rows, not quite on a diamond grid. She did >have a heavier weight piece of linen and silk (45/55) >which I would consider dressweight. Is combining >linen and silk fibers period? I haven't run across that information, but then, I haven't been looking for it. Anyone? Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 00:59:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20884 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:59:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8351NWV004492; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8351Mj07538; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g834hdj03464 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.118]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g834h8Es008785; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:43:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020902214811.0145e690@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] painting of Helena Snakenborg In-Reply-To: <20020903020535.45208.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:48:11 -0700 Status: RO At 07:05 PM 09/02/2002 -0700, Cascio Michael wrote: > Margo If I make a straight smock with a high >neck and a front slit how will it get pulled open. It >seems that if I just count on the mountains *L* to >hold the front open then it wouldn't be very >comfortable to wear. The bodice should be tight enough to hold it in place. The order of layers would be, skin, low necked smock, pair of bodies (corset), shirt or partlet, bodice. No, it's not comfortable to wear by modern T-shirt standards, but it's not acutely uncomfortable to wear. What kind of embroidery would >you think this is? I've never seen a reproduction of the painting tht's detailed enough to tell the type of embroidery, but going by what was popular at the time, my money's on detached buttonhole stitches. This is the style that later developed into three dimensional stumpwork. For a nice introduction to the technique, check out "exploring Elizabethan Embroidery" by Dorothy Clarke. ISBN 0-473-03634-7 . And what >kind of a grid would it be on? I don't do well with >just random placement of motifs for embroidery or >beading but I can handle diagonal diamonds or squares >or half offset diamonds or whatever. It looks to me like the motifs are placed in diagonal rows, not quite on a diamond grid. She did >have a heavier weight piece of linen and silk (45/55) >which I would consider dressweight. Is combining >linen and silk fibers period? I haven't run across that information, but then, I haven't been looking for it. Anyone? Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 02:56:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17096 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:56:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g836vNWV008207; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:57:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g836vMj01818; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tyler.snap.net.nz (tyler.snap.net.nz [202.37.101.20]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g836gjj28966 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p13-dialup.snap.net.nz ([203.97.31.13] helo=beowulf.verso.org) by tyler.snap.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 ) id 17m7OX-00009s-00 for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 18:42:38 +1200 Received: from [192.168.255.20] (helo=lilith) by beowulf.verso.org with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 17m7NZ-0005tN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 18:41:37 +1200 From: "Jennifer Geard" Organization: Verso.org To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buried Norsemen book? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020903024234.42938.qmail@web40203.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g836gjj28966 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: geard@verso.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:43:44 +1200 Status: RO Tasha asked: > Does anyone know whether or not the title _Viking > Settlers in Greenland and Their Descendants During > Five Hundred Years_ by Poul Norlund is the same book > that I've heard referred to as "Buried Norsemen..."? > If not, can anyone give a concise rundown on the > differences between the books (i.e. what info they > contain)? I haven't been able to lay hands on "Viking settlers...", but I managed to get "Buried Norsemen..." by international interlibrary loan. 115 Norlund, Pöul. “Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes”. In Meddelelser om Grønland. 67. Copenhagen: C.A. Reitzel, 1924. 1-270, of which the costume section is [87]-192. 137-53 B&W photographs, diagrams and line drawings of garments, textile techniques and artworks. The authoritative publication on the garments found during excavation of the Herjolfsnes cemetery in Greenland, where 70 items of clothing were found from the 14th and early 15th centuries. Each article is described, gathered in classes with other similar items in categories such as “Close- bodied Slip-over Dresses, having Centre Gores”. The items include a range of kirtles and gowns, hoods, caps, hose and accessories. Some of the garments are sized for children. The photographs and diagrams showing the arrangement of pieces have become very widely known in recreationist circles, and have had considerable impact on the construction of clothing. Note, however, the comments of Nockert about likely inaccuracies in some of the diagrams, where straight seams are drawn as though they are curved to give a more waisted shape to the fitted garments. Cheers, Jennifer PS: Sorry for flitting in and out without proper introduction. I'm a librarian from New Zealand, into early music and old clothes. My particular thing for the last few years has been English clothing of the mid-14th century. JLG ========================================================== Jennifer Geard Wellington, New Zealand _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 04:12:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10571 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:12:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g838EOWV010829; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:14:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g838EMj19251; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83825j16183 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AD6A38F4025E; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 03:06:02 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c25320$71343160$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] 5th Annual Online Costume Ball Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:03:51 -0400 Status: RO I know h-costumers wait for this announcement every year. You all have so much fun at the Ball... you party animals! So here it is... Our 5th Online Costume Ball is now accepting entries for the 2002 Ball. It is hard to believe we started this in 1998. I will accept entries from today until Nov. 10. The Ball will open Oct. 1. To enter go to www.onlinecostumeball.com and glide your cursor over the large picture. You will see a square with the words "How to Become a Guest." Click on it and you will see the directions. If you have a webpage that shows more photos of your costumes or how you made it, or where you wore it to, please include the URL with your email message to me. Please feel free to post this on other email list or messageboards. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 04:12:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10582 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g838EjWV010841; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:14:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g838Eij19304; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:14:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8384Yj16780 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM24CI1RXC00DFEC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:04:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM24CHO9XU00ELYE@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:04:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:02:33 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:01:43 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.43) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:01:42 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Disappointment! In-reply-to: <20020902180008.18855.61951.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <658B7CC33E8@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:01:41 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > I've sent a sample of the dyed off-cut to the trader who sold it to > > me. He was obviously sold a dud and he'll no doubt want to offer me > > some form of recompense for having (unknowingly) sold it on to me > > (he's had it happen before with fabric sold to him as linen) but > > even so.... > > Oh no!!! I'm so sorry to hear this Teddy and equally glad that you > told us before I went and bought some too to dye. What a shame. > Ali is nice, I am sure he'll do something about your mis-purchase. Undoubtedly - he was as eager to see how it came out as I was. The real shame is that it looks so prety once dyes (having the differrent parts of the pattern take the dye or not take it makes a lovely contrast to the diamond pattern) Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 04:25:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10662 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:25:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g838RSWV011234; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:27:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g838RRj21746; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8386Xj17743 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:06:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM24EZ187400DFEC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:06:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM24EYPFFQ00AQKJ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:06:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:04:33 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:03:54 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.43) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:03:48 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Cynthia Virtue's twins! In-reply-to: <20020902180008.18855.61951.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <658C11B1941@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:03:48 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > For some proof that she is still costuming take a look at her > > adorable twins in their tunics and hoods..... > > > > http://www.thibault.org/babies/April.html > > *SQUEEEEEEEEALS*!!! > I have NEVER seen such CUTE kiddos in those tunics and hoods, my > my, if I didn't usually think that the only way I like children is > roasted on a spit with barbecue sauce, I might even think about > adding one or two just so that I can costume them. *L* Oooh, Scary! > Super pics, thanks teddy for sending them. Welcome. Cynthia showed them to me and I just *had* to let the list know. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 04:25:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10666 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:25:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g838RMWV011225; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g838RMj21720; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g838CVj18919 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:12:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM24MCZJWW00DFEC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:12:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM24MCKSPW00EUJY@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:12:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:10:30 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:10:11 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.43) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:10:06 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: url for painting of Helena Snakenborg In-reply-to: <20020902180008.18855.61951.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <658DBF16FDA@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:10:05 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Even though I didn't post the original query...here's > the url: > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/T%20Helena%20Snakenborg.jpg Thanks Kate!!... Oh, *that one*.... I thought she was one of the "unknown girl" paintings. How long has she been identified as Helena Snakenborg? Anyhow, lovely shirt (or partlet and matching sleeves - personally I think shirt would be easier/less fuss to don than fiddling with tucking in a partlet and lacing in sleeves, but it's anyones guess as to which it actually is) The embroidery of those flowers could take an *age* though. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 04:38:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10744 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:38:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g838eOWV011799; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g838eNj25550; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:40:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g838JLj20189 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:19:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020903081920.94229.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:19:20 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Disappointment! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <658B7CC33E8@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:19:20 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > The real shame is that it looks so prety once dyes (having the > differrent parts of the pattern take the dye or not take it makes a > lovely contrast to the diamond pattern) How much polyester is in it do you think? I was just wondering, if you want to get rid of some (dyed) I would be happy to buy it off you, because I'd like to make some historical-looking mundane clothing, a cloak and bits like that and wouldn't mind a tad of polyester in that. (though not in something that's close to the skin of course. Yuck, I HATE polyester, makes me feel icky and stinky and clingy) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 04:41:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10773 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:41:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g838hDWV012041; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:43:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g838hCj26942; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:43:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g838MIj20828 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020903082218.61260.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:22:18 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 5th Annual Online Costume Ball To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001701c25320$71343160$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:22:18 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > I know h-costumers wait for this announcement every year. You all have so > much fun at the Ball... you party animals! So here it is... Wheehee, Penny, I was looking forward to that. Now off to try decide on my currently favourite piccie. Hmmmm.... may it be two of different period costumes? Nicole - bouncing excitedly ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 04:51:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10802 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g838rNWV012479; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:53:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g838rMj29473; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:53:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g838Ytj23076 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 02:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020903083454.88028.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:34:54 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Cynthia Virtue's twins! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <658C11B1941@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:34:54 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > > roasted on a spit with barbecue sauce, I might even think about > > adding one or two just so that I can costume them. *L* > > Oooh, Scary! Nah, don't worry, I just meant as addition to my re-enactment kit *G* kind of borrow-the-costumed-kids-from-a-friend thingy. Does my best friend have a kid yet though? No! ha! I keep trying to urge her on, I want to become an aunt, you know, the mad-aunti-type, the one with the really strange gifts for christmas and birthdays, the one that lets them eat all the stuff that mum says is unhealthy and allows them to stay up too long. *LOL* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 05:34:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10959 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 05:34:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g839WOWV013536; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 03:32:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g839WMj05514; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 03:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g839FHj21563 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 03:15:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AE93397E01DC; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 04:19:15 -0500 Message-ID: <017001c2532a$ab029440$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20020903082218.61260.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 5th Annual Online Costume Ball X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 05:17:03 -0400 Status: RO Nicole........ don't run so fast!!!! Your wig feel off!!!!!!!! <<>> You are throwing your gowns everywhere Nicole! I am tickled to say that Kate Pinner sent me photos of her daughter in her bubble wrap prom dress to be in the Ball!!!!!! And a guy who calls himself "Pinhead" is at the ball. He has a skull cap made of straight pins. We may need some chaperones to keep him away from Kate's daughter. Doesn't everyone hope Teddy will make his first appearance at the Ball!!!!!! Come on... cheer him on, so he will appear. Teddy you could bring the twins. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 06:13:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11218 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 06:13:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83ABNWV014571; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83ABMj13781; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:11:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g839okj09629 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 03:50:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM2824GONK00E01O@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:50:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM2821D0W200FCS5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:50:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:48:39 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:48:31 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.43) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:48:22 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Black handkerchief-weight linen -- suggestions? In-reply-to: <20020903093222.3578.36076.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <65A7F8B0257@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:48:22 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Mara, how shiny? If it's not too bright you could make a Edwardian > half morning. Pair it with a soft lavender as trim, collar and > sleeves. It would be stunning. Mmmmmm... Nice Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 06:13:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11222 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 06:13:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83ABWWV014582; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83ABVj13821; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:11:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g839whj11117 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 03:58:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM28BYKB6800EYNL@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:58:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM28BWNBAA00DSUM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:58:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:56:37 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:55:51 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.43) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:55:41 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] painting of Helena Snakenborg In-reply-to: <20020903093222.3578.36076.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <65A9EC9547F@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:55:41 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Not Margo, but answering anyway... > Thanks Kate for getting the URL out so quick. I'm not usually > on-line over the weekend. Margo If I make a straight smock with > a high neck and a front slit how will it get pulled open. Not front slit - open at the front - make it open all the way down like a shirt (or a longer slit if you prefer, but that might sit "funny" lower down if you have the top pulled open) > It seems that if I just count on the mountains *L* to hold the > front open then it wouldn't be very comfortable to wear. The bodice should fit well enough to hold it in place. > She did have a heavier weight piece of linen and silk (45/55) which > I would consider dressweight. Is combining linen and silk fibers > period? Time to get ready for work. I don't know if it's period (sounds plausible) but who'se gonna know anyway unless they do a fibre analysis on the garment? if you like the fabric and it's a reasonable weight for the gown and looks the part, then go for it. Just remember to keep us posted on how it goes and what it comes out like... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 06:26:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11271 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 06:26:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83AORWV014917; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:24:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83AOQj16261; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83A5fj12655 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM28KKJZ6800DFEC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:05:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM28KJGIVO00D3VQ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:05:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:03:35 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:03:19 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.43) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:03:11 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Disappointment! In-reply-to: <20020903093222.3578.36076.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <65ABEA71C7B@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:03:11 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > The real shame is that it looks so prety once dyes (having the > > differrent parts of the pattern take the dye or not take it makes a > > lovely contrast to the diamond pattern) > > How much polyester is in it do you think? Well, I suspect it's nylon rather than polyester (the cut edges are 'fuzzy' like the fuzzy-nylon thread sold for overlockers) and it's 50 percent that and 50 percent natural fibre (cotton or linen, hard to tell, but definately natural fibre ase it took the dye) > was just wondering, if you want to get rid of some (dyed) I would > be happy to buy it off you, because I'd like to make some > historical-looking mundane clothing, a cloak and bits like that and > wouldn't mind a tad of polyester in that. (though not in something > that's close to the skin of course. Yuck, I HATE polyester, makes > me feel icky and stinky and clingy) Well, I have a 5 metre uncut length of it that I could dye whatever colour you want , plus the two half-circles I cut to make the body of the houpellande (plus wheeel pieces to finish them), either of which could be used for a half-circle cloak, though they'd need cutting down a bit as they're wider than the width of the fabric.. wou would be too long for you at that size. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 06:26:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11275 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 06:26:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83AOXWV014925; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:24:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83AOXj16285; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:24:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83A6bj12864 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 04:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM28LSIV6O00EERE@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:06:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.53.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM28LSEW1000FCS5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:06:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:04:35 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:04:30 +0000 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.43) by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:04:26 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Cynthia Virtue's twins! In-reply-to: <20020903093222.3578.36076.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <65AC3B838E9@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:04:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > Oooh, Scary! > > Nah, don't worry, I just meant as addition to my re-enactment kit > *G* kind of borrow-the-costumed-kids-from-a-friend thingy. Does my > best friend have a kid yet though? No! ha! I keep trying to urge > her on, I want to become an aunt, you know, the mad-aunti-type, the > one with the really strange gifts for christmas and birthdays, the > one that lets them eat all the stuff that mum says is unhealthy and > allows them to stay up too long. *LOL* Lucky for me, I have two godchildren. Both in re-enactment families... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 09:33:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12585 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:33:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83DYsWV021199; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:34:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83DYoj01485; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21304.mail.yahoo.com (web21304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.190]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g83DDTj25038 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:13:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020903131329.74686.qmail@web21304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.25.106.133] by web21304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 06:13:29 PDT From: kate Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: url for painting of Helena Snakenborg To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <658DBF16FDA@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: ailith@noe.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 06:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/T%20Helena%20Snakenborg.jpg > > Thanks Kate!!... > > Oh, *that one*.... I thought she was one of the > "unknown girl" > paintings. > > How long has she been identified as Helena > Snakenborg? I don't think that it's been too long (and it's still a tentative id). When I visited London 3 years ago, she was still an "unknown girl." I remember seeing the portrait at the Tate Gallery and being thrilled to see her up close! Years ago, someone that I know actually did re-create the gown, smock and partlet, embroidery and all. If I recall correctly, it took her the better part of a year to embroider all of the flowers. She used perl cotton and made them about 2" long. Sorry, there are no photos of it. kate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 09:45:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12722 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:45:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83DkhWV021717; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83Dkgj05446; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40019.mail.yahoo.com (web40019.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.59]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g83DNAj27711 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020903132304.76655.qmail@web40019.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40019.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 14:23:04 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: Historic Costuming , Tudor Fashions , H-costume list , HNW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork Costuming Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:23:04 +0100 (BST) Status: RO This link was sent to another list I am on and I am reposting it for you all to drool over! http://embroidery.embroiderersguild.com/2002-5/muntus.htm Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 10:00:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12971 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:00:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83E1kWV022689; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83E1hj10775; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83DjFj05027 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:45:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew ([213.78.115.173]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AKQ28052; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:43:31 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000f01c25350$6dfa3b40$ad734ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C25358.CEA8ED80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Subject: [h-cost] Alter Years Contact details pls Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:47:20 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C25358.CEA8ED80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can't seem to get the Alter years site to work, anyone know if there is = a problem ? Or do you know their fax no ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. Tel: +44 116 260 4442=20 Fax: +44 116 260 1396=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C25358.CEA8ED80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can't seem to get the Alter years = site to work,=20 anyone know if there is a problem ? Or do you know their fax no = ?
 
Mel
This e-mail, and any attachment, is=20 confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from = your=20 system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify = me=20 immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views = which=20 are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.
Tel: = +44 116=20 260 4442
Fax:  +44 116 260 1396
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C25358.CEA8ED80-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 10:20:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13091 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:20:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83ELkWV023804; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83ELjj18568; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83DpMj07092 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:51:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H1V00D5Z7SGUZ@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:50:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D74BCCB.1020200@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Thank you very much... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:44:43 -0500 Status: RO Wow, more information than I was hoping for. This list is such an amazing source. We have decided to use oak. And the 1/4" inch depth sounds best. Albert, do you think the "S" bend was created by wearing the corset, or prior to insertion in the corset? There would be moisture and warmth, which is what it takes to bend wood. I am going to picture document what I am doing and will put it up in a section on my site. I won't get to actually see this on a person. It is going to a museum for a curator to wear under a gown for re-enactment purposes. Thank you again everyone. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 10:47:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13159 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:47:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83EmkWV025820; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:48:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83Emhj01164; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:48:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83EZ2j24502 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.49.2300f91f (16930) for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:34:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <49.2300f91f.2aa6228b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thank you very much... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_49.2300f91f.2aa6228b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:34:51 EDT Status: RO --part1_49.2300f91f.2aa6228b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/3/2002 10:22:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LindaJThompson@comcast.net writes: > Albert, do you think the "S" bend was created by wearing the corset, or > prior to insertion > in the corset? There would be moisture and warmth, which is what it takes > to bend wood. > I think it's carved that way. The wood is very hard. --part1_49.2300f91f.2aa6228b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/3/2002 10:22:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LindaJThompson@comcast.net writes:


Albert, do you think the "S" bend was created by wearing the corset, or prior to insertion
in the corset? There would be moisture and warmth, which is what it takes to bend wood.


I think it's carved that way. The wood is very hard. --part1_49.2300f91f.2aa6228b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 12:05:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13442 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:05:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83G6jWV004335; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83G6hj18768; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83Fgcj04158 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.78] (as3-4-92.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.78]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g83Fgap24434 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D717A1E.8D24C4E9@dandy.net> References: <3D717A1E.8D24C4E9@dandy.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sept-Oct PieceWork Magazine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 22:05:06 -0700 Status: RO At 10:23 PM -0400 8/31/02, leigh tartaglio wrote: >Hi, Chris. I have seen pieces in the tradition you describe, in white and blue >cotton for men's caps for use in the mosque and street wear. I was >curious also >because Muslim laws follow some Jewish and Christian ideas, and there is a >Levitical ban on mixing wool and linen in Jewish tradition. I wondered whether >this might translate over in some way to wool and cotton, and from Judaism to >Islam. I have talked it over with some folks, and no-one really seems to be an >expert on Levitic Law, and so doesn't know why this ban was created >(says Mike in >the hopes of getting an answer from the list). Again, good job on the article. >Mike T. As another data point -- in Coptic Egyptian wool embroideries of the 6-8th century or so, the white parts of the embroidery are typically done in white linen. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 12:42:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13642 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83GhhWV007797; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83Ghfj11157; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:43:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83GeMj09070 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:40:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.149] (pm5-149.eos.net [205.133.149.149]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26932 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:40:19 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020903093222.3578.36076.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: religious mixing of fibers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 12:39:13 -0400 Status: RO I haven't read any Levitical commentary lately, but the last time I did I remember reading that one purpose postulated for this and many of the similar bans was to differentiate the Israelites from other tribes in the area. They were the chosen people, so they had to dress, eat and act differently from other peoples. Of course, as previously noted, God (if you believe that the laws came from God) didn't give a reason. Gail Finke Cincinnati _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 15:02:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14755 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 15:02:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83J3VWV020320; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83J3Oj08463; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:03:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83Iosj00926 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([213.107.35.201]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020903185052.BBGH25423.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:50:52 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork Costuming Message-ID: <3D751294.21666.128DCC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20020903132304.76655.qmail@web40019.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:50:44 +0100 Status: RO On 3 Sep 2002 at 14:23, Rachel wrote: > This link was sent to another list I am on and I am reposting it for > you all to drool over! > > http://embroidery.embroiderersguild.com/2002-5/muntus.htm Ooohh...... drooling.... and how many years did *that* take, I wonder? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 16:20:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15578 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:20:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83KLwWV027341; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:21:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83KLox25177; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83K90x17385 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.135]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H1V009P2PAXJD@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 13:08:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork Costuming In-reply-to: <3D751294.21666.128DCC@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020903130800.04cc2530@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20020903132304.76655.qmail@web40019.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 13:08:21 -0700 Status: RO > > This link was sent to another list I am on and I am reposting it for > > you all to drool over! > > > > http://embroidery.embroiderersguild.com/2002-5/muntus.htm > >Ooohh...... drooling.... and how many years did >*that* take, I wonder? It says at the bottom of the page. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 16:45:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15773 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:45:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83KkhWV029919; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83Kkgx10959; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83KgUx08406 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.99] (as3-4-113.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.99]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g83KgQ906334 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buried Norsemen book? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 11:16:42 -0700 Status: RO At 11:30 PM -0500 9/2/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Tasha McGann wrote: > >> Does anyone know whether or not the title _Viking Settlers in >> Greenland and Their Descendants During Five Hundred Years_ by Poul >> Norlund is the same book that I've heard referred to as "Buried >> Norsemen..."? If not, can anyone give a concise rundown on the >> differences between the books (i.e. what info they contain)? > >Two different books. I haven't seen "Viking Settlers," but my vague >recollection is that it's a shorter, more popularized version of the full >study report ("Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes") from the Greenland >expedition. > >I bet Heather can tell us more. I haven't looked at the "Viking Settlers" book, but it's definitely a different book from "Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes". Norlund was a fairly prolific writer and has other books of interest to historic costumers, although not necessarily in English. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 16:49:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15811 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:49:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83KpHWV000435; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83KpHx13828; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.tzo.com (vortex.tzo.com [66.152.192.116] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g83KgXx08431 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:42:33 -0600 (MDT) TZForward: h-costume@indra.com Received: from 66.68.79.113 by mailhost.tzo.com id 2002090316425079657 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 20:42:50 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15733.7862.425588.399870@cs666879-113.austin.rr.com> From: Debra Douglass To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: Debra Douglass's message about Unable to access hcos08 H-costume archive References: <200208311842.OAA17675@sca.uwaterloo.ca> <15733.7639.832076.63502@cs666879-113.austin.rr.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.05 under Emacs 20.7.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Unable to access hcos08 H-costume archive Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 15:42:30 -0500 Status: RO Sorry that message was just supposed to go to Eric Praetzel, the archive maintainer. -Debra On 9/3/2002, on h-costume@indra.com, Debra Douglass wrote: >>I noticed that the Aug 2002 file has been posted to the web site but >>when I went to download it I couldn't. The error was "You don't have >>permission to access /~fashion/archives/hcos02/hcos08 on this server." >> >>Could you fix the permissions, please? The cl file is readable but I >>am interested in the unexpurgated file. >> >>Thank you, >> >>-Debra Douglass -- .------------------------------------------------------------------. |Debra Douglass ddoug@catrio.org http://www.catrio.org| `------------------------------------------------------------------' _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 18:05:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16104 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:05:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83M6Ctj005225; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83M67I27981; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83LwaI23369 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 15:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [64.78.119.252]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7C9620554 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E4252046D for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002f01c25394$dc5fb440$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <3D751294.21666.128DCC@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork Costuming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:57:13 -0400 Status: RO The caption says she worked on it from 1995 to 1998. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Williams" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork Costuming > On 3 Sep 2002 at 14:23, Rachel wrote: > > > This link was sent to another list I am on and I am reposting it for > > you all to drool over! > > > > http://embroidery.embroiderersguild.com/2002-5/muntus.htm > > Ooohh...... drooling.... and how many years did > *that* take, I wonder? > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 18:28:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16188 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:28:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83MTgtj009045; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:29:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83MTgE12829; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:29:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83MLoE08149 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17mKu1-0000q2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 14:08:02 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blackwork Costuming Organization: PII Message-ID: <000d01c2538c$61924d20$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-reply-to: <3D751294.21666.128DCC@localhost> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:56:28 -0700 Status: RO Looks like three years? Not worked all at once I am sure. Interesting pattern for the partlet itself. I'd be curious about where she got it or if she developed it herself. **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jane Williams **Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:51 AM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork Costuming ** ** **On 3 Sep 2002 at 14:23, Rachel wrote: ** **> This link was sent to another list I am on and I am **reposting it for **> you all to drool over! **> **> http://embroidery.embroiderersguild.com/2002-5/muntus.htm ** **Ooohh...... drooling.... and how many years did ***that* take, I wonder? ** ** **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 19:08:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16345 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:08:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83N9ntj015286; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:09:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83N9k708984; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:09:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12007.mail.yahoo.com (web12007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.215]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g83N4b705664 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:04:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020903230436.39995.qmail@web12007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.239] by web12007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 16:04:36 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] can't get to kate Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO thanks for the private e-mail with more information kate but I couldn't get a reply to you. the mail daemon bounced my reply so I'll say thanks here. Elizabethan is way before my usual time frame so I'll undoubtedly be coming here for lots of help. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 19:16:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16415 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:16:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83NHjtj016023; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83NHj712972; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83NCc710535 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:12:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from FABRICHOARDER@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.e6.2d97afc7 (4184) for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:12:29 -0400 (EDT) From: FABRICHOARDER@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Black handkerchief-weight linen -- suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e6.2d97afc7.2aa69bdc_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:12:28 EDT Status: RO --part1_e6.2d97afc7.2aa69bdc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about a black chemise, done in whitework, instead of the usual white chemise done in blackwork? Maybe a reverse-image Tudor or Elizabethan, perhaps? Sigh... Ramona --part1_e6.2d97afc7.2aa69bdc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about a black chemise, done in whitework, instead of the usual white chemise done in blackwork?  Maybe a reverse-image Tudor or Elizabethan, perhaps?  Sigh...

Ramona --part1_e6.2d97afc7.2aa69bdc_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 19:30:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16694 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:30:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83NVhtj018568; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:31:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83NVg721270; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83NNU716439 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:23:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07745 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:26:29 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buried Norsemen book? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:26:29 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > >I bet Heather can tell us more. > > Not at all! I'm actually relieved to discover there's a book you haven't read! > I haven't looked at the "Viking Settlers" book, but it's definitely a > different book from "Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes". Norlund was a > fairly prolific writer and has other books of interest to historic > costumers, although not necessarily in English. That's news to me -- the costume interest in his other books, that is. Is there anything you know of in English? (Not that the translation of "Buried Norseman" was a work of art :-P ) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 19:48:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17084 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:48:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83NoUtj020270; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:50:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83NoT729604; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:50:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21304.mail.yahoo.com (web21304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.190]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g83Ngc726506 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:42:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020903234238.23954.qmail@web21304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.25.106.133] by web21304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 16:42:38 PDT From: kate Subject: Re: [h-cost] can't get to kate To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020903230436.39995.qmail@web12007.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: ailith@noe.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO You're very welcome. :-) I have no idea why the email addy bounced. What address showed as From?? kate --- Cascio Michael wrote: > thanks for the private e-mail with more information > kate but I couldn't get a reply to you. the mail > daemon bounced my reply so I'll say thanks here. > Elizabethan is way before my usual time frame so > I'll > undoubtedly be coming here for lots of help. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 19:48:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17088 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:48:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g83NoNtj020259; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83NoM729556; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:50:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g83NfL725995 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.ca.10a7bfec (4340) for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:41:12 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Black handkerchief-weight linen -- suggestions? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ca.10a7bfec.2aa6a298_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:41:12 EDT Status: RO --part1_ca.10a7bfec.2aa6a298_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/3/2002 7:18:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FABRICHOARDER@aol.com writes: > > How about a black chemise, done in whitework, instead of the usual white > chemise done in blackwork? Maybe a reverse-image Tudor or Elizabethan, > perhaps? Sigh... > Actually, a black linen engagente with white work and white English embroidery would look fantastic emerging from the sleeve of an 1860s white pique sea side outfit....with black soutache braid work. --part1_ca.10a7bfec.2aa6a298_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/3/2002 7:18:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FABRICHOARDER@aol.com writes:



How about a black chemise, done in whitework, instead of the usual white chemise done in blackwork?  Maybe a reverse-image Tudor or Elizabethan, perhaps?  Sigh...


Actually, a black linen engagente with white work and white English embroidery would look fantastic emerging from the sleeve of an 1860s white pique sea side outfit....with black soutache braid work. --part1_ca.10a7bfec.2aa6a298_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 20:41:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18306 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:41:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g840ghtj023454; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g840gf718858; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g840XF715841 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from GENTEELARTS (user69.net262.oh.sprint-hsd.net [208.17.70.69]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA25839 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:33:08 -0500 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Black engageantes Message-ID: <000901c253aa$a0dc67e0$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C25389.19CAC7E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:33:02 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C25389.19CAC7E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would you mind sharing your sources for black engageantes worn with a white outfit, or black engageantes with white trim? The only references I've found (so far) for black engageantes refer to them being worn with dresses for first mourning (totally unrelieved black, often with crape trim). Any ornamentation on the engageantes listed in these references is also black. I have dozens of references and a number of cdv's with white engageantes or undersleeves with black trim, but not the opposite. Thanks! Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Actually, a black linen engagente with white work and white English embroidery would look fantastic emerging from the sleeve of an 1860s white pique sea side outfit....with black soutache braid work. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C25389.19CAC7E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Would=20 you mind sharing your sources for black engageantes worn with a white = outfit, or=20 black engageantes with white trim?  The only references I've found = (so far)=20 for black engageantes refer to them being worn with dresses for first = mourning=20 (totally unrelieved black, often with crape trim).  Any = ornamentation=20 on the engageantes listed in these references is also black.  I = have dozens=20 of references and a number of cdv's with white engageantes or = undersleeves=20 with black trim, but not the opposite.
 
Thanks!
 
Carolann Schmitt
cschmitt@genteelarts.com
www.genteelarts.com=
 

Actually, a black linen engagente with white = work and=20 white English embroidery would look fantastic emerging from the sleeve = of an=20 1860s white pique sea side outfit....with black soutache braid = work.=20
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C25389.19CAC7E0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 21:09:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19153 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 21:09:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g841Ahtj025078; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g841Ag728532; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:10:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84174727199 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H1W00B8X33MBA@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 21:06:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D755B4D.4050808@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Linen burn test question... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 20:01:01 -0500 Status: RO I hardly ever do burn tests on fabric. Except when trying to see if something is a blend of some sort. I purchased what is supposed to be 100% Linen from Joanne's about a week ago. So I thought hmmmm... this would be nice in the corset I am doing, but before I do this maybe I should be sure, since this is being done for re-enactment, it would be nice to be certain. I did a burn test on a 1 inch square piece. It burned slowly, kept smoldering after the flame was removed, smelled like burnt paper, made a fine, feathery sort of ash, that was black as midnight. The small hand out that I have on burn tests said the ash from linen would be light grey. Cotton is a light grey. I have washed the fabric, and it seems to be linen. I thought maybe it was Rayon after the burn test color, but when it washed it did not do that shrinky dink thing that any other time I have washed rayon happens. Has anyone else burned linen and gotten a dark ash? -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 22:54:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20350 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:54:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g842thtj001092; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g842tf703246; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:55:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40202.mail.yahoo.com (web40202.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.63]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g842q2702188 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020904025157.80565.qmail@web40202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.30.35] by web40202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 19:51:57 PDT From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020904011042.27503.95469.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] re: Buried Norsemen Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Robin wrote: > (Not that the translation of "Buried Norseman" was a > work of art :-P ) I just borrowed a partial photocopy from a friend today, and it starts on page 87 or so, "Chapter 6: The Costumes" (in the edition I have, which I can't cite, because that part isn't included in what I have). At any rate, I'm wondering what's in the first five chapters, but I can guess they're not directly costume-related. Can anyone clue me in? Robin? Heather? Thanks, Tasha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 23:06:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20433 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 23:06:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8437ltj001740; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 21:07:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8437k707692; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 21:07:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g842wI704171 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:58:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.195.246] (as3-4-4.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.195.246]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g842wEp22326 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buried Norsemen book? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:21:29 -0700 Status: RO At 6:26 PM -0500 9/3/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > I haven't looked at the "Viking Settlers" book, but it's definitely a >> different book from "Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes". Norlund was a >> fairly prolific writer and has other books of interest to historic >> costumers, although not necessarily in English. > >That's news to me -- the costume interest in his other books, that is. Is >there anything you know of in English? > >(Not that the translation of "Buried Norseman" was a work of art :-P ) For clothing, specifically, there's a small pamphlet: Norlund, Poul. 1941. Dragt. Nordisk Kultur XV:B, Stockholm. It's primarily on Iron Age clothing and not in English. I think I've seen some other items by him on clothing, but they aren't coming up in my catalogs, so unless my memory has invented them they must be articles in larger collections. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 3 23:23:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20544 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 23:23:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g843Ohtj002560; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 21:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g843Og713355; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 21:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g843IH711173 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 21:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17mQgI-00028z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 20:18:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3D757AC2.3E0A36E0@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buried Norsemen book? *LONG* References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 22:15:14 -0500 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > That's news to me -- the costume interest in his other books, that is. Is > there anything you know of in English? Here's what Worldcat has for Nørlund. Note for those who may not be aware: "Buried Norsemen" is part of a very large series. It has been published as a single volume and bound with other volumes. One of the volumes deals with the skeletal deformities of the remains which explains some of the "odd" clothing finds. --Charlene Title: Armour from the battle of Wisby : 1361 / Author(s): Thordeman, Bengt, 1893- ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888- ; Inglemark, Bo Eric,; 1913- Corp Author(s): Kungl. Vitterhets, historie och antikvitets akademien. Publication: Stockholm : Kungl. vitterhets historie och antikvitets akademien, Year: 1939-1940 Description: 2 v. : ill. plates (part fold.) tables, diagrs. ; 30 cm. Language: English Contents: Contents.-v. 1. Text.-v.2. Plates. Standard No: LCCN: 40-3625 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Arms and armor -- History. Arms and armor, Scandinavian. Visby, Battle of, 1361. Excavations (Archaeology) -- Sweden -- Visby. Note(s): "Published with the aid of grants from the Humanistiska fonden."/ Errata slip laid in./ Bibliography: v. 1 p. [452]-459. Title: Brattahlid, Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Stenberger, Mårten Karl Herman,; 1898- ; joint author.; Degerbøl, Magnus,; 1895- ; Nielsen, Niels,; 1893- ; Calvert, W. E.; 1887- ; (William Ernest),; tr. Publication: København, C.A. Reitzel, Year: 1934 Description: 161 p. illus., map. 28 cm. Language: English Series: Meddelelser om Grønland, udgivne af Kommissionen for videnskabelige undersøgelser i Grønland,; bd. 88, nr. 1; Standard No: LCCN: a 45-225 Abstract: Researches into Norse culture in Greenland. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen in Greenland. Geographic: Brattahlid (Greenland) Greenland -- Antiquities. Note(s): "The translation of this paper had been made by Mr. W.E. Calvert."--P. 6./ Appendices: Animal bones from the Norse ruins at Brattahlid, by Magnus Degerbøl; Samples of slag from Brattahlid, examined by Niels Nielsen; List of ruin sites at Brattahlid. Title: Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes, an archaeological and historical study, Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Fausbøll, Annie,; 1876- ; tr. Year: 1924 Language: English Series: In Meddelelser om Grønland. København, 1924. 28 cm. bd. LXVII, p. [1]-[270] illus. (incl. map) fold. plan, diagrs.; Variation: Denmark.; Kommissionen for videnskabelige undersøgelser i Grønland.; Meddelelser om Grønland ;; v. 67. Standard No: LCCN: a 42-2075 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen in Greenland Burial Geographic: Greenland -- Antiquities Note(s): Translated by Annie Fausbøll./ "The costumes": p. [87]-192. Title: The churches of Soro County. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: Copenhagen, G.E.C. Gad, Year: 1940 Description: 86 p. illus., map, plans, 28 cm. Language: English Series: Danish churches, pub. by the Danish National Museum; Variation: Danish churches. Standard No: LCCN: 50-43997 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Churches -- Denmark -- Sorø (Amt) Church architecture -- Denmark -- Sorø (Amt) Title: Danish art through the ages. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951, ; ed.; Struckmann, Erick, ; ed.; Swane, Leo,; 1887-1968, ; ed. Corp Author(s): Tidsskriftet Danmark. Publication: Copenhagen] Tidsskriftet Danmark Year: 1960-1969? Description: 90 p. (chiefly illus., part col.) 32 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Art, Danish -- History. Note(s): Cover title./ Edited by the magazine "Danmark". Title: Danish art through the ages. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951, ed. Publication: Copenhagen] Tidsskriftet Danmark Year: 1948 Description: 90 p. illus. 32 cm. Language: English Standard No: LCCN: 49-17841 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Art -- Denmark -- History. Note(s): Cover title. Title: Danmarks historie i billeder. Author(s): Andrup, Otto, 1881- ; Ilsøe, Peter. ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: København, Gyldendal, Year: 1969 Description: 1 v. (chiefly illus.) 27 cm. Language: Danish Title: Danmarks historie i billeder. Teksthæfte 1. Author(s): Andrup, Otto, 1881- ; Ilsøe, Peter. ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: København, Gyldendal, Edition: 2. udgave. Year: 1962 Description: 210 p. 24 cm. Language: Danish Title: Danmarks historie i billeder. Teksthæfte 2. Author(s): Andrup, Otto, 1881- ; Ilsøe, Peter. ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: København, Gyldendal, Edition: 2. opl. Year: 1968 Description: 362 p. 24 cm. Language: Danish Title: Danmarks historie i billeder. Teksthæfte 3. Author(s): Andrup, Otto, 1881- ; Ilsøe, Peter. ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: [København] Gyldendal, Year: 1956 Description: 364-546 p. 24 cm. Language: Danish Title: Danmarks historie i billeder. Teksthæfte 4. Author(s): Andrup, Otto, 1881- ; Ilsøe, Peter. ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: København, Gyldendal, Year: 1957 Description: 548-659 p. 24 cm. Language: Danish Title: Danmarks historie i billeder, med udblik til de andre nordiske lande; til brug for den højere udervisning, Author(s): Andrup, Otto,; 1887-1953, ; ed.; Ilsøe, Peter,; 1893- ; joint ed.; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951, ; joint ed. Publication: København, Gyldendalske boghandel, Nordisk forlag, Year: 1936 Description: [168] p. illus. (incl. ports., maps, plans, facsims., table.) Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Geographic: Denmark -- History -- Pictorial works. Title: Danmarks historie i billeder, med udblik til de andre nordiske lande; ved Otto Andrup, Peter Ilsøe, [og] Poul Nørlund. Author(s): Andrup, Otto, 1883-1953. ; Ilsøe, Peter,; 1893- ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: København, Gyldendal, Year: 1936 Description: [168] p. illus. (incl. ports., maps, plans, facsims.) 25 cm. Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Geographic: Denmark -- History -- Pictorial works. Title: Danmarks Malerkunst fra Middelalder til Nutid / Author(s): Zahle, Erik, 1898- ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: København : H. Hirschsprung, Edition: 4. udg. Year: 1956 Description: 350 p. : ill. Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Painting, Danish -- History. Title: Danmarks malerkunst fra middelalder til nutid / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. ; Zahle, Erik,; 1898- Publication: København : H. Hirschsprung, Edition: 2. udg. Year: 1943 Description: 329 p., [4] leaves of plates : ill. (some col.) ; 28 cm. Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Painting -- Denmark -- History. Note(s): Includes index./ Includes bibliographical references (p. [321]-324). Title: Danmarks Malerkunst fro Middelalder til Nutid, Author(s): Zahle, Erik, 1898- ed.; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: København, H. Hirschsprungs Forlag, Edition: 3. udg. Year: 1947 Description: 331 p. illus., 5 col. plates. Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Painting, Danish -- History. Note(s): Bibliography: p. [321]-326. Title: Danmarks romanske Kalkmalerier, Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Lind, Egmont, ; joint author. Publication: København, Selskabet til Udgivelse af Danske Mindesmærker, A.F. Høst, Year: 1944 Description: 313 p. illus., plates (part col.) map. 32 cm. Language: Danish Standard No: LCCN: a 48-2889 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Church decoration and ornament -- Denmark. Mural painting and decoration. Note(s): Bibliographical footnotes. Title: De gamle Nordbobygder ved verdens ende. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: København, Nationalmuseet; (Gyldendal) Edition: 4. opl. Year: 1967 Description: 153 p. illus. 26 cm. Language: Danish Standard No: LCCN: 68-98440 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen in Greenland. Vikings. Geographic: Greenland -- Antiquities. Note(s): Bibliography: p. [149]-150. Title: De gamle Nordbobygder ved Verdens Ende, Skildringer fra Grønlands Middelalder. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: København, Udv. for Folkeoplysnings Fremme i Kommission hos G.E. Gad, Edition: 3. Opl. Year: 1942 Description: 153 p. illus., map. 27 cm. Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Geographic: Greenland -- History. Note(s): "Folkelæsning nr. 361, Aargang 1935."/ "Literaturhenvisninger": p. [149]-150. Title: De gamle Nordbobygder ved verdens ende : skildringer fra Grønlands middelalder / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: København : Udvalget for Folkeophysnings fremme, Year: 1934 Description: 152 p. : ill. ; 27 cm. Language: Danish Series: Folkelæsning ;; nr. 361, aarg. 1934; SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen -- Greenland. Vikings. Geographic: Greenland -- Antiquities. Note(s): Includes bibliographical references. Title: De gamle Nordbokygder ved verdens ende : skildringer fra Grønlands middelalder / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: København : Udvalget for Folkeoplysnings Fremme i Kommission hos G.E.C. Gad, Edition: 2. opl. Year: 1935 Description: 152 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 26 cm. Language: Danish Series: Folkelæsning ;; nr. 361; SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen -- Greenland -- History. Costume -- Greenland -- History. Costume -- History -- Medieval, 500-1500. Geographic: Greenland -- Antiquities. Title: De gamle Nordbokygder ved verdens ende skildringer fra Grønlands middelalder / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: København : Udvalget for Folkeoplysnings Fremme i Kommission hos G.E.C. Gad, Edition: 2. opl. Year: 1935 Description: 152 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 26 cm. Language: Danish Series: Folkelæsning ;; nr. 361; SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen -- Greenland -- History. Costume -- Greenland -- History. Costume -- History -- Medieval, 500-1500. Geographic: Greenland -- Antiquities. Note(s): Reproduction: Microfilm./ Andover, MA :/ Northeast Document Conservation Center,/ 1992./ 1 microfilm reel. Material Type: Microform (mic) Document Type: Book Title: Det romerske slavesamfund under afvikling, en analyse af underklassens retskaar i oldtidens slutning. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: [København] I kommission hos V. Thaning & Appel, Year: 1980, 1920 Description: 4 p. l., 327 p. 26 cm. Language: Danish Series: Variation: Slavery pamphlets: source material and critical literature. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Slavery -- Rome. Note(s): Microfiche (negative) Louisville, Ky., Lost Cause Press [1980?] 5 sheets. 11 x 15 cm. (Slavery pamphlets: source material and critical literature)/ "Bibliografi": p. [323]-327./ Dissertation: Thesis--Copenhagen. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Microform (mic) Document Type: Book Title: Det romerske slavesamfund under afvikling, en analyse af underklassens retskaar i oldtidens slutning. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: [København] I kommission hos V. Thaning & Appel, Year: 1920 Description: 4 p. l., 327 p. 26 cm. Language: Danish Standard No: LCCN: 24-25078 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Slavery -- Rome. Note(s): "Bibliografi": p. [323]-327./ Dissertation: Thesis--Copenhagen. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg) Document Type: Book Title: Dragt Author(s): Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: Stockholm : Bonnier, Year: 1941 Description: 171 p. : ill. Language: Danish Series: Nordisk kultur ;; 15B; SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Costume -- Scandinavia -- History. Note(s): Danish or Swedish./ Includes bibliographies and indexes./ Reproduction: Microfilm./ Bloomington, Ind. :/ Indiana University Libraries, Preservation Dept.,/ 1984./ 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm. Title: Dragt / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: Stockholm : Albert Bonnier, Year: 1941 Description: 171 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Language: Danish Series: Nordisk kultur ; vol. 15:B; Contents: Klædedragt i oldtid og middelalder, av P. Nørlund.--Stridsdrägten under forntid och medeltid, av B. Thordeman.--Förhistoriska och medeltida traditioner i nordisk bondedrägt, av S. Svensson.--Sted- og personregister, Sagregister av I. Löwdin. Standard No: LCCN: 50-4920 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Costume -- Scandinavia. Note(s): In Danish or Swedish./ Includes bibliographical references and indexes. Title: Greek and Latin illuminated manuscripts, X-XIII centuries, in Danish collections Author(s): Björnbo, Axel Anthon,; 1874-1911, ; ed.; Mackeprang, Mouritz,; 1869- ; ed.; Madsen, Victor,; 1873-1941, ; ed.; Petersen, Carl S.; 1873- ; (Carl Sophus),; ed.; Heiberg, J. L.; 1854-1928. ; (Johan Ludvig),; Jensen, Chr. Axel,; 1878- ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. ; Jørgensen, Ellen,; 1877-1948. Corp Author(s): Carlsbergfondet, ; Copenhagen. Publication: Copenhagen, Marcus, Year: 1900-1983? Description: 51 p. facsims.(part col.) 51 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Illumination of books and manuscripts -- Specimens, reproductions, etc. Note(s): Edited by a committee consisting of A. A. Bjørnbo, M. Mackeprang, V. Madsen and C. J. Petersen. Greek mss. described by J. L. Heiberg, Latin mss. by C. A. Jensen and M. Mackeprang, text rev. by P. Nørlund, analysis of the mss. by Ellen Jørgensen, expenses defrayed by the Carlsberg fund./ "Edition limited to one hundred and sixty copies."/ Reproduction: Microfilm./ Princeton, N.J. :/ Princeton University Library,/ 19--./ 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm. Material Type: Microform (mic) Document Type: Book Title: Gyldne altre. Jysk metalkunst fra Valdemarstiden. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Christiansen, Tage Ejler,; 1918- Publication: Århus, Wormianum; (D.B.K.) Edition: 2. udg. [med tillæg af Tage E. Christiansen] Year: 1968 Description: 7, 246, 32 p. illus., 9 plates. 33 cm. Language: Danish Standard No: LCCN: 75-382148 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Altars -- Denmark. Altarpieces -- Denmark. Church decoration and ornament -- Denmark. Art metal-work -- Denmark. Note(s): Added t.p. in English./ Summary in English./ Bibliographical footnotes. Title: Gyldne altre; jysk metalkunst fra valdemarstiden. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: Kjobenhavn, H. Koppels, Year: 1926 Description: 246 p. illus., 9 plates 34 cm. Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Altars -- Denmark. Altarpieces -- Denmark. Church decoration and ornament -- Denmark. Art metal-work -- Denmark. Note(s): Added t.p. in English./ Summary in English./ "Selskabet til undgivelse af danske mindesmaerker." Title: København, 1888-1945. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951, ed. Publication: [København] Tidsskriftet Danmark, Year: 1948 Description: 576 p. illus., ports. 32 cm. Language: Danish Standard No: LCCN: 49-21986 SUBJECT(S) Geographic: Copenhagen (Denmark) -- History. Denmark -- Civilization. Title: Nordboproblemer i Grønland / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Year: 1928 Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen in Greenland. Geographic: Greenland -- Antiquities. Note(s): In Geografisk tidsskrift. Kjøbenhavn. 25 cm. 31. bd. (1928), p. 46-61./ Summary in English. Title: Norse ruins at Gardar, the episcopal seat of mediaeval Greenland, Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Roussell, Aage,; 1901- ; Calvert, W. E.; 1887- ; (William Ernest),; tr. Year: 1930 In: Meddelelser om Grønland. (Medd. Grønl.) Kjøbenhavn : C.A. Reitzel, 1930. 28 cm. Bd. LXXVI, p. [1]-170. illus. (incl. maps, plans) pl. ISSN: 0025-6676 CODEN: MGROAV (OCoLC)1371436 Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen in Greenland. Christian antiquities -- Greenland. Geographic: Garðar (Greenland) Greenland -- Church history. Note(s): "Translation of the Danish manuscript is the work of Mr. W.E. Calvert."--p. [4]/ Bibliographical foot-notes. Title: Norse ruins at Gardar : the Episcopal seat of mediaeval Greenland / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Roussel, Aage,; 1901- ; Calvert, W. E.; 1887- ; (William Ernest),; tr. Year: 1929 Description: p. [1]-170 : ill. ; 28 cm. In: Meddelelser om Grønland. Vol. 76 (1930) Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen -- Greenland. Christian antiquities -- Greenland. Geographic: Garðar (Greenland) Greenland -- Church history. Note(s): With: Rune inscription from Gardar / Finnur Jónsson, 1929 -- Animal bones from the Norse ruins at Gardar / Magnus Degerböl, 1929 -- Evidence on the extraction of iron in Greenland by the Norsemen / Niels Nielsen, 1929 -- Diatoms from near Kugssuk, west Greenland / Dingley P. Fuge, 1930 -- Report on the geological expedition to east Greenland, 1926-1927 / Lauge Koch, 1930. Title: Ringsted kirke, Author(s): Clemmensen, Mogens Becker, 1885- ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951, ; illustrator. Corp Author(s): Denmark.; Kirkeministeriet. Publication: København, H. Koppels forlag, Year: 1927 Description: 3 p. ., 36 p. illus., 23 pl. 53 cm. Language: Danish SUBJECT(S) Named Corp: Ringsted, Denmark. Kirke. Note(s): Plate captions in Danish and English./ "Udgivet paa foranstaltning af Kirkeministeriet." Title: Seks tvaersnit af Danmarks historie. Author(s): Brøndsted, Johannes, 1890-1965. ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: København, Gyldendalske boghandel nordisk forlag, Year: 1941 Description: 186 p. illus. Language: Danish Note(s): At head of title: Johannes Brøndsted og Poul Nørlund. Title: Seks tværsnit af Danmarks historie. Author(s): Brøndsted, Johannes, 1890-1965. ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. Publication: København, Gyldendal, Edition: 5. gennemsete opl. Year: 1966 Description: 188 p., 8 plates. 19 cm. Language: Danish Series: Gyldendals uglebØger,; 2; Standard No: LCCN: 72-383845 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Art -- Denmark. Geographic: Denmark -- Civilization. Title: Sorø Amt / Author(s): Hermansen, Victor, 1894- ; Nørlund, Poul,; 1888-1951. ; Moltke, Erik,; 1901- Publication: København : Gads forlag, Year: 1936-1938 Description: 2 v. (1335 p.) : ill., maps, plans ; 28 cm. Language: Danish Series: Danmarks kirker ;; 5; SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Churches -- Denmark -- Sorø (Amt) Church architecture -- Denmark -- Sorø (Amt) Church decoration and ornament -- Denmark -- Sorø (Amt) Note(s): Includes index./ Vol. 2 in collaboration with Erik Moltke. Title: Trelleborg. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: Copenhagen] Nationalmuseet, Year: 1968 Description: 38 p. illus., map. 21 cm. Language: English Series: Nationalmuseets blå bøger; Variation: Nationalmuseet (Denmark).; Nationalmuseets blå bøger. Standard No: LCCN: 75-550414 SUBJECT(S) Geographic: Trelleborg (Fortress) Title: Trelleborg / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: Copenhagen : Nationalmuseet, Year: 1956 Description: 36 p. : ill., map. ; 21 cm. Language: English Series: Nationalmuseets blå bøger; Variation: Nationalmuseet (Denmark).; Nationalmuseets blå bøger. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Trelleborg (Fortress) Title: Trelleborg. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: Copenhagen, Gyldendal, Year: 1948 Description: 38 p. illus. 19 cm. Language: English Standard No: LCCN: 54-38905 SUBJECT(S) Geographic: Trelleborg (Sweden) -- Antiquities. Title: Trelleborg / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. Publication: København : I Kommission hos Gyldendalske Boghandel, Nordisk Forlag, Year: 1948 Description: 296, [29] leaves of plates : ill. ; 34 cm. Language: Danish Series: Nordiske fortidsminder ;; 4. bd., 1. hefte; SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Trelleborg (Fortress) Note(s): English summary: p. [265]-292. Title: Viking settlers in Greenland and their descendants during five hundred years, Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Calvert, W. E.; 1887- ; (William Ernest),; tr. Publication: London, Cambridge University Press; Copenhagen, Gad, New York, Kraus Reprint Co., Year: 1971 Description: 160 p. illus. (incl. maps, plans) 25 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen in Greenland. Vikings. Costume -- History -- Medieval, 500-1500. Geographic: Greenland -- Antiquities. Note(s): "Translated from the Danish by W.E. Calvert."/ Printed in Denmark./ Bibliography: p. 156-157. Title: Viking settlers in Greenland and their descendants during five hundred years, Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Calvert, W. E.; 1887- ; (William Ernest),; tr. Publication: London, Cambridge university press; Copenhagen, G.E.C. Gad, Year: 1936 Description: 160 p. illus. (incl. maps, plans) 25 cm. Language: English Standard No: LCCN: 37-14674 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen in Greenland. Vikings. Costume -- History -- Medieval, 500-1500. Geographic: Greenland -- Antiquities. Note(s): "Translated from the Danish by W. E. Calvert."/ Printed in Denmark./ Bibliography: p. 156-157. Title: Viking settlers in Greenland and their descendants during five hundred years. With a foreword by Ellis H. Minns. Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Calvert, W. E. Publication: London Cambridge University Press Year: 1936 Description: 160p. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Northmen -- Greenland. Vikings Costume -- History -- Medieval, 500-1500. Geographic: Greenland -- Antiquities. Note(s): "Translated from the Danish by W. E. Calvert."/ Printed in Denmark./ Bibliography: p. 156-157. Title: Wikingersiedlungen in Grönland : ihre Entstehung und ihr Schicksal / Author(s): Nørlund, Poul. ; Blüthgen, Joachim. ; Kjaergaard, Helge. Publication: Leipzig : Kabitzsch, Year: 1937 Description: VII, 138 S : Ill. Language: German Other Titles: Gamle Nordbobygder ved verdens ende -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 00:40:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22321 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 00:40:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g844fwtj007207; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:41:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g844fw708545; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:41:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g844c9707304 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.186.209.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.186.209]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17mRvb-00050l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:38:08 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <658DBF16FDA@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <658DBF16FDA@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: painting of Helena Snakenborg Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:52:58 -0700 Status: RO At 9:10 AM +0000 9/3/02, Teddy wrote: > > Even though I didn't post the original query...here's >> the url: >> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/T%20Helena%20Snakenborg.jpg > >Thanks Kate!!... > >Oh, *that one*.... I thought she was one of the "unknown girl" >paintings. IIRC the identification has been an on-and-off thing -- depends on which authority you believe and how recently they spoke. Sometimes it's Helena, sometimes an "unknown lady" -- I think it's currently back to "unknown," but I haven't really kept up with it, nor do I know the evidence for and against. >Anyhow, lovely shirt (or partlet and matching sleeves - personally I >think shirt would be easier/less fuss to don than fiddling with >tucking in a partlet and lacing in sleeves, but it's anyones guess as >to which it actually is) The embroidery of those flowers could take >an *age* though. It does. I know someone who did a quick-and-sloppy version (large satin stitch with cotton floss, as I recall) and it still took her several months. Note, though, that you only have to embroider the areas that are going to be _seen_, so it's not as bad as it might be. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 00:40:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22322 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 00:40:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g844fgtj007185; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:41:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g844ff708463; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g844cD707327 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:38:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.186.209.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.186.209]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17mRve-00050l-00; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:38:10 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D755B4D.4050808@comcast.net> References: <3D755B4D.4050808@comcast.net> To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Linen burn test question... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:09:15 -0700 Status: RO At 8:01 PM -0500 9/3/02, Linda J. Thompson wrote: >I hardly ever do burn tests on fabric. Except when trying to see if >something is a blend of some sort. > >I purchased what is supposed to be 100% Linen from Joanne's about a >week ago. So I thought hmmmm... this would be nice in the corset I >am doing, but before I do this maybe I should be sure, since this is >being done for re-enactment, it would be nice to be certain. > >I did a burn test on a 1 inch square piece. It burned slowly, kept >smoldering after the flame was removed, smelled like burnt paper, >made a fine, feathery sort of ash, that was black as midnight. The >small hand out that I have on burn tests said the ash from linen >would be light grey. Cotton is a light grey. >I have washed the fabric, and it seems to be linen. I thought maybe >it was Rayon after the burn test color, but when it washed it did >not do that shrinky dink thing that any other time I have washed >rayon happens. >Has anyone else burned linen and gotten a dark ash? Hm. Have you tried the burn test again since you washed it? You could have gotten a color change from some sizing or finish on the fabric. I don't know any really easy or quick way to reliably tell linen from cotton (or ramie or hemp). I usually rely on reading the end of the bolt for fiber content, which of course doesn't help if you're buying flat folds or remnants. I've also seen and felt enough 100% linen that I tend to rely on its "feel" if I don't have written information -- linen feels (as best I can describe it) crisper and cooler to the hand than cotton. This, of course, doesn't always help if the fabric has a finish on it, or if it's a blend. But cotton often feels warmer when you touch it than linen does. Another thing that may help is something I learned from a piece of fabric I'm still not quite sure of (it was drapes from a thrift store, so no labels). It's a lovely natural-linen-like color, but I showed it to a friend, who promptly pulled a thread from the edge, untwisted it, and showed me it was made from _short_ fibers a couple of inches long or less. This suggests it's either cotton or poor-quality linen, since (she said) good linen ought to have fibers that are at least four to six inches if not longer. From a practical point of view, when you look at the information on the bolt, the good stuff will often say "100% FLAX linen." The term "linen" as used in fabric stores is now very often used to describe what used to be called "linen-look" fabrics. But if they say FLAX, I think they mean it. (However if "100% linen" is the only fiber described or mentioned anywhere, it's probably linen.) And of course as Teddy can now tell us, none of these methods is perfect.... -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 00:44:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22397 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 00:44:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g844k2tj007447; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g844k1709749; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g844cF707341 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:38:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.186.209.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.186.209]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17mRve-00050l-00; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:38:10 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D755B4D.4050808@comcast.net> References: <3D755B4D.4050808@comcast.net> To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Linen burn test question... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:09:15 -0700 Status: RO At 8:01 PM -0500 9/3/02, Linda J. Thompson wrote: >I hardly ever do burn tests on fabric. Except when trying to see if >something is a blend of some sort. > >I purchased what is supposed to be 100% Linen from Joanne's about a >week ago. So I thought hmmmm... this would be nice in the corset I >am doing, but before I do this maybe I should be sure, since this is >being done for re-enactment, it would be nice to be certain. > >I did a burn test on a 1 inch square piece. It burned slowly, kept >smoldering after the flame was removed, smelled like burnt paper, >made a fine, feathery sort of ash, that was black as midnight. The >small hand out that I have on burn tests said the ash from linen >would be light grey. Cotton is a light grey. >I have washed the fabric, and it seems to be linen. I thought maybe >it was Rayon after the burn test color, but when it washed it did >not do that shrinky dink thing that any other time I have washed >rayon happens. >Has anyone else burned linen and gotten a dark ash? Hm. Have you tried the burn test again since you washed it? You could have gotten a color change from some sizing or finish on the fabric. I don't know any really easy or quick way to reliably tell linen from cotton (or ramie or hemp). I usually rely on reading the end of the bolt for fiber content, which of course doesn't help if you're buying flat folds or remnants. I've also seen and felt enough 100% linen that I tend to rely on its "feel" if I don't have written information -- linen feels (as best I can describe it) crisper and cooler to the hand than cotton. This, of course, doesn't always help if the fabric has a finish on it, or if it's a blend. But cotton often feels warmer when you touch it than linen does. Another thing that may help is something I learned from a piece of fabric I'm still not quite sure of (it was drapes from a thrift store, so no labels). It's a lovely natural-linen-like color, but I showed it to a friend, who promptly pulled a thread from the edge, untwisted it, and showed me it was made from _short_ fibers a couple of inches long or less. This suggests it's either cotton or poor-quality linen, since (she said) good linen ought to have fibers that are at least four to six inches if not longer. From a practical point of view, when you look at the information on the bolt, the good stuff will often say "100% FLAX linen." The term "linen" as used in fabric stores is now very often used to describe what used to be called "linen-look" fabrics. But if they say FLAX, I think they mean it. (However if "100% linen" is the only fiber described or mentioned anywhere, it's probably linen.) And of course as Teddy can now tell us, none of these methods is perfect.... -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 00:48:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22470 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 00:48:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g844ngtj007653; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g844nf710736; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g844iD709187 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09919 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 23:47:12 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Buried Norsemen In-Reply-To: <20020904025157.80565.qmail@web40202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id g844iD709187 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 23:47:12 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Tasha McGann wrote: > I just borrowed a partial photocopy from a friend today, and it starts > on page 87 or so, "Chapter 6: The Costumes" (in the edition I have, > which I can't cite, because that part isn't included in what I have). Your Xerox is from this (cutting-and-pasting from Charlene's wonderful list): > Title: Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes, an archaeological and historical > study, > Author(s): Nørlund, Poul, 1888-1951. ; Fausbøll, Annie,; 1876- ; tr. > Year: 1924 > Language: English > Series: In Meddelelser om Grønland. København, 1924. 28 cm. bd. LXVII, > p. [1]-[270] illus. (incl. map) fold. plan, diagrs.; Variation: > Denmark.; Kommissionen for videnskabelige undersøgelser i Grønland.; > Meddelelser om Grønland ;; v. 67. As Charlene noted, this is just one volume in what's essentially a journal (Meddelelser om Grønland, or "Monographs on Greenland") in bound-book format. The series has been running since 1879. Other volumes cover other topics on Greenland, everything from geology to ecology to modern social issues. You can see a full index of the first hundred years of volumes in .pdf format by going to http://www.dpc.dk/Publications/MoG.html and taking the link at the bottom. For more recent volumes, use the links to the left of the page. I've seen that photocopied section of volume 67, chapter 6 passing around a lot of hands in SCA and reenactor circles. It's a shame that people only look at the costume chapter! The rest of the book contains useful nuggets that help put this material in perspective for the serious researcher. For instance, there are analyses of the various fibers found on the bodies, as well as some information on diet, stature, etc. and a large medical section that tells you quite a bit about the bodies on which the clothing is found. And if you want information on that sealskin G-string (menstrual pad? incontinence pad?) you'll find it in the medical section, not in the costumes. Once I got deeply into this material, I found a lot of context, and in some cases inconsistencies with the rather misleadingly tidy writeup of the costumes that appears in Chapter 6. There are tables providing more detail into the difficult issue of male/female sexing of the bodies, for instance. I also got a better appreciation for the conditions under which the dig was carried out -- at breakneck speed in a short digging season while the graves were literally falling into the water. The chapters you are missing cover these topics: I. Herjolfsnes, its History in Ancient and Modern Times II. The Expedition to Herjolfsnes in 1921. Voyage, Excavations and Conservation III. The Buildings at Herjolfsnes IV. Burials and Burial Customs V. The Coffins Chapter VI, on the costumes, is quite large and divided into sections on general remarks, body-clothing, hoods, caps, hose, and accessories. Then there's more: VII. The Tombstones VIII. The Wooden Crosses IX. Smaller Finds X. Did a Deterioration of the Climate occur in Greenland in the Late Middle Ages? XI. Conclusion. The Decay of the Norse Colonies in the Light of the Find from Herjolfsnes Then there's a diagram of the positions of the finds, and a list of the finds, a list of abbreviations, and acknowledgements. That concludes Norlund's part of the volume. After that is a short section on the interpretation of the runic inscriptions, pages 271-290 (I think -- I didn't copy that bit). And then the huge "Anthropologia Medico-Historica Groenlandiae Antiquae" -- the medical section, which runs from pages 291-547. I didn't Xerox all of this; I only have the introduction and conclusion, plus the bits that cover microscopic analysis, heights, ages, physical defects, teeth and nutrition, coffin dimensions (useful when trying to determine body size), and portions of the detailed descriptions on just a couple of the skeletons. Sometimes I wish I had done the whole thing, despite its length! But it *is* written in 1920s medical jargon awkwardly translated from the Danish. This is not easy reading for most people. (Heather does have the whole book, and I'm not sure whom she had to kill to get it.) People who have heard my lecture on the Greenland finds know that I harp a lot on the fact that the costume information isn't nearly as clear-cut as it's often presented, particularly in secondary sources quoting Norlund's work. The garments were in pieces and/or badly deteriorated. In some cases, parts of a single garment were found in multiple graves, or part of multiple garments were found in a single grave. In many cases we can't be sure of the sex of the wearer, and often it's clear that the wearer wasn't the person in the same grave as the clothing. (The gowns were used as shrouds, wrapping the corpses, so evidently they used any available old garment to shroud some of the bodies.) Some of the reconstructions were problematic. My friend Shelly Nordtorp-Madson, who has worked directly with the garments, tells me that it has since been determined that Norlund reassembled some of the garments wrong -- though it's impossible now to take them apart because they were glued into place with the 1920s restorations. And I know from my own work that Norlund's own writeups and measurements don't always match his diagrams, and those don't necessarily produce what we see in the photos of the reconstructed garments. People in my audiences who are used to seeing that tidy diagram of the 12-gore dress are often surprised to find out just how untidy the evidence actually is. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 03:50:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02785 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:49:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g847phtj014037; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 01:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g847pf726675; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 01:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40009.mail.yahoo.com (web40009.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.27]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g847hf724968 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 01:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020904074336.39812.qmail@web40009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 08:43:36 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blackwork Costuming To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000d01c2538c$61924d20$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:43:36 +0100 (BST) Status: RO I'd rather suspect that it is a design based on a mixture of historical patterns. The embroideres guild doesn't go all out for historical authenticity and instead encourages individual expression and experimentation. It';s still a beautiful piece but why not just do it in silk on linen, it would look even better! Rachel --- Saragrace knauf wrote: > Looks like three years? Not worked all at once I am sure. Interesting > pattern for the partlet itself. I'd be curious about where she got it > or if she developed it herself. > > ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 05:35:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13010 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 05:35:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g849agtj017428; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g849af719050; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g849TN717395 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:29:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM3LJX6ZRK00FHV2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:29:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM3LJTRQI200E4EC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:28:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:26:23 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:26:08 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:26:06 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo of costume from painting of Helena Snakenborg In-reply-to: <20020903180008.28316.88805.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <29BFFFD2719@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:26:05 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > How long has she been identified as Helena > > Snakenborg? > > I don't think that it's been too long (and it's still a tentative > id). When I visited London 3 years ago, she was still an "unknown > girl." I remember seeing the portrait at the Tate Gallery and being > thrilled to see her up close! > > Years ago, someone that I know actually did re-create the gown, > smock and partlet, embroidery and all. If I recall correctly, it > took her the better part of a year to embroider all of the flowers. > She used perl cotton and made them about 2" long. > > Sorry, there are no photos of it. Jane Huggett made one some time ago - there's a photo of her in it with the Historical Dance group she performs with here.... http://www.hants.gov.uk/basdance/pic1.jpg Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 05:42:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13021 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 05:42:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g849igtj017559; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g849if720670; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g849ac719040 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM3LTTO5CG00BZBA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:36:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM3LTOED8Q00E4EC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:36:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:34:20 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:33:53 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:33:49 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Black handkerchief-weight linen -- suggestions? In-reply-to: <20020904011042.27503.95469.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <29C21094470@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:33:48 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Actually, a black linen engagente with white work and white English > embroidery would look fantastic emerging from the sleeve of an 1860s > white pique sea side outfit....with black soutache braid work. OK, now you made me drool on tghe keyboard! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 05:49:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13028 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 05:49:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g849pgtj017731; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g849pf722323; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g849l6721260 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020904094705.54788.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:47:05 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photo of costume from painting of Helena Snakenborg To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <29BFFFD2719@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:47:05 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > Jane Huggett made one some time ago - there's a photo of her in it > with the Historical Dance group she performs with here.... > > http://www.hants.gov.uk/basdance/pic1.jpg Lovely! I wish there were a close-up. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 06:00:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13061 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 06:00:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84A2htj018021; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 04:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84A2g724871; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 04:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g849pQ722280 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 03:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KM3MD6S78W00F5J2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:51:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KM3MCIR6NK00E4EC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:50:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:48:44 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:48:35 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:48:28 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: [h-cost] Not-a-Dissapointment In-reply-to: <20020904044158.7583.19764.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <29C5FC71A8F@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:48:28 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Following on the heels of the disappointment over the linen that wasn't linen.... The fabric I was actually dying when I threw the offcut of non-linen in to test it came out *beautifully.* It was a length of lovely figured velvet that Danielle brought over for me in January (from the Orange Bag shop in Toronto, right Danielle?). It's beautiful stuff, remeniscent of the patterned velvets seen in Tudor-bethan portraits with the pattern picked out in longish pile velvet and the background in unpiled plain-weave (probably the reason several pieces of it in various colours were in Danielle's stash in the first place, right Danielle?) Anyhow, the pice she brought me was a sort of fawn colour... very nice but not as *me* as it could be, so I decided to dye it. I toyed with the idea of orange - which would have taken well over the fawn colour, but decided to risk going for a dark green instead. One box of Olive Green and one box of Dark Green went into the washer with it and it came out the most *glorious* deep, even, dark, rich foresty green... and the pile has remained as soft as iit was before washing/dying. Happy, happy, happy. I think I know what my first garments from Margo's new Mens Elizabethan Patterns will be made form when the pattern is ready for release... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 11:13:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14952 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:13:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84FDGtj002316; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:13:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84FDG706904; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:13:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84F9s704898 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g84F9qY5004155 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:09:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Black handkerchief-weight linen -- suggestions? In-Reply-To: <3D741D02.F61C793B@2xtreme.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, Stephen, it's a bit on the shiny side, but (judging from experience buying some of the same fabric in red, earlier) if I wash it, it'll get less shiny. Hm, cool idea! I've been thinking of making an Edwardian outfit... - Mara On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Stephen Bergdahl wrote: > Mara, how shiny? If it's not too bright you could make a Edwardian > half morning. Pair it with a soft lavender as trim, collar and > sleeves. It would be stunning. > > > Stephen Bergdahl > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 11:13:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14953 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:13:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84FCntj002251; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84FCg706549; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84F2u701022 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.1b9.5d4e7fd (4592) for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:02:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1b9.5d4e7fd.2aa77a95@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Black engageantes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1b9.5d4e7fd.2aa77a95_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:02:45 EDT Status: RO --part1_1b9.5d4e7fd.2aa77a95_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/3/2002 8:43:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschmitt@genteelarts.com writes: > Would you mind sharing your sources for black engageantes worn with a white > outfit, or black engageantes with white trim? My fabulous taste...dahhhhlink! I don't have any sources....though I have seen black engagements [without white] somewhere. I make costumes. Not museum repros. I say if it looks good [and is not too off the beaten path] do it. I have seen a real 1890s outfit of black linen with tiny white butterflies embroidered all over it. --part1_1b9.5d4e7fd.2aa77a95_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/3/2002 8:43:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschmitt@genteelarts.com writes:


Would you mind sharing your sources for black engageantes worn with a white outfit, or black engageantes with white trim?  
My fabulous taste...dahhhhlink!

I don't have any sources....though I have seen black engagements [without white] somewhere.

I make costumes. Not museum repros. I say if it looks good [and is not too off the beaten path] do it.

I have seen a real 1890s outfit of black linen with tiny white butterflies embroidered all over it. --part1_1b9.5d4e7fd.2aa77a95_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 11:17:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15003 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:17:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84FHZtj002670; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84FHX709469; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:17:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84F5d702603 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g84F5cY5003503 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:05:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busk for circa 1810-20 corset addendum In-Reply-To: <174.dd5d5db.2aa56d46@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Mon, 2 Sep 2002 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > I'll bet any "common" wood like oak or ash. I suppose one could use pine. > It's soft. What about cedar? Keep the moths out of it...... I wouldn't want pine, for fear it'd break under pressure and splinter... Hard woods like oak or ash would be better because they'd be flexible but wouldn't be as likely to break. That's why oak and ash and the like are used for stuff like boatbuilding, spear shafts, baskets, etc. > I actually have a corset from this period with the busk in it. It is > completely sewn in so I'd have to take out original hand stitching to see it. > I don't know what wood it's made from. It is hard and rigid. I can tell you > that it is slightly curved. I mean, if you look at it in profile, it has a > very shallow "S" shape. Gently curving out for the bust, then coming in a > little for the waist the out again for the lower part. Not unlike a spoon > busk of the 1880s. [because the corset comes way down on the hips, the in > curve for the waist is nearer the top] The busk is 2" wide all the way down > [not wider at the bottom like a spoon busk] and a little more than 1/4" > thick. All the edges are rounded. Hm, I'm wondering whether the wood could have been 'steamed' into shape from being exposed to perspiration and pressure? A slower version of the method I've seen my hubby and other boatbuilders use to steam wood into shape for planks, etc.... If you steam a thin piece of oak enough, you can tie it into a knot ;) -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 11:27:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15153 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:27:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84FRjtj003470; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:27:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84FRh715495; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84FKi711382 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g84FKgY5005988 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:20:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: OT: Mad aunties, was Re: [h-cost] Re: Cynthia Virtue's twins! In-Reply-To: <20020903083454.88028.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My nephews are about 500 miles away from me, alas! I went to visit my middle sister last Christmas and did my best to wear wierd hats and clothing the entire time. Oh, wait, that's how I normally dress... I just wish they lived closer! It'd be fun to take them to reenactment events. Speaking of roasting things over the fire, though, my local butcher shop sells frozen whole rabbits. I've got a few in the freezer now; could stick them over the fire and tell people they were rats ;D -- Mara On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > Nah, don't worry, I just meant as addition to my re-enactment kit *G* kind of > borrow-the-costumed-kids-from-a-friend thingy. Does my best friend have a kid > yet though? No! ha! I keep trying to urge her on, I want to become an aunt, you > know, the mad-aunti-type, the one with the really strange gifts for christmas > and birthdays, the one that lets them eat all the stuff that mum says is > unhealthy and allows them to stay up too long. *LOL* > > Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 11:54:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15332 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:54:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84Frwtj005863; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84FrqP01762; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:53:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.95]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84FfTP23818 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:41:32 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Who's the admin for the Fabric swap community? Thread-Index: AcJUKVqi7SLoF3jxTDiCsHln4HBCzg== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g84FfTP23818 Subject: [h-cost] Who's the admin for the Fabric swap community? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:40:11 -0700 Status: RO Could you please email me off-list? Thanks! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 12:12:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15415 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84GCKtj007810; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:12:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84GCFP14315; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:12:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84G5HP09740 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:05:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.50] (as3-4-64.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.50]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g84G5Dp20965 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020904025157.80565.qmail@web40202.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020904025157.80565.qmail@web40202.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] re: Buried Norsemen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:23:38 -0700 Status: RO At 7:51 PM -0700 9/3/02, Tasha McGann wrote: >Robin wrote: >> (Not that the translation of "Buried Norseman" was a >> work of art :-P ) > >I just borrowed a partial photocopy from a friend >today, and it starts on page 87 or so, "Chapter 6: The >Costumes" (in the edition I have, which I can't cite, >because that part isn't included in what I have). At >any rate, I'm wondering what's in the first five >chapters, but I can guess they're not directly >costume-related. Can anyone clue me in? Robin? >Heather? The earlier chapters cover the details of the expedition itself, the layout of the site, the nature and arrangement of the coffins. There are also chapters (I forget whether they come before or after the clothing section) on non-clothing finds, on associated inscriptional material, and whatnot. A separate section following all this covers the human remains. If you're curious enough to want a full table of contents, I can do it later. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 17:10:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18274 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:10:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84LAptj005669; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84LAim24376; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84L1gm18805 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.41.124]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020904210136.YUCL19514.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 21:01:36 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020904155419.036c83a0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] slightly OT FW: [sidesaddle] for those in England.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 15:56:33 -0500 Status: RO I got this off another list and thought it might appeal to some of you in England. Cheers, Danielle >Date: 3 Sep 2002 >From: Barbara Wills >Subject: Seminar on history of equestrian saddles > >Archaeological Leather Group Meeting >Saddlers Hall, 40 Gutter Lane, London EC2V 6BR >Oct 23, 2002 > >The Archaeological Leather Group is holding a One-Day Seminar called 'In the >Saddle', exploring the history and evolution of equestrian saddles in >Europe. Subjects range from Roman, through Anglo-Saxon to Medieval and >Stuart period saddles. Presentations on the development and history of the >side-saddle, and the construction of the modern riding-saddle follow. The >remarkable conservation of a 1549 saddle, now belonging to the Wallace >Collection, will also be described. > >Cost: 20 pounds sterling per head to include buffet lunch (ALG members 16 >pounds) > >Please make cheques payable to 'Archaeological Leather Group' and send, >with details of name and address, to > Roy Thomson, Treasurer > c/o Leather Conservation Centre > University College Campus > Boughton Green Road > Northampton NN2 7AN, UK. > > If any further details required, please contact Mike Glasson > leathermuseum@walsall.gov.uk > > > -Jeannie > "Use Mr. Stick! That's what you got him for!" > dressage judge Ruth Sinclair _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 18:17:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18543 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:17:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84MFOtj010893; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84MFIm07173; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84M6vm29110 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:06:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358A620882 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9973720760 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <019501c2545f$1386c1a0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Subject: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:04:36 -0400 Status: RO Is it time to move our fabric swap to a different server? It really doesn't warrant enough activity to justify a $30.00 annual membership! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "CommunityZero" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership COMMUNITYZERO: IMPORTANT CHANGES TO CORE MEMBERSHIP Dear CommunityZero Core Member, This month marks the three-year anniversary of the launch of the free CommunityZero Core service. Over this period, CommunityZero has attracted more than one and a half million registered users. We, at Ramius Corporation, greatly appreciate the support that our online community software has received. With the recent upgrade of all our CommunityZero Core users to the enterprise-level version 2.0 of our software, growth in registered users and pageview traffic has continued to accelerate. Feedback regarding this version's broadly expanded functionality set and its dramatically improved performance has been very positive. Sales of our Advantage and Server solutions have also flourished. While wonderful, this growth must be supported with significant ongoing and increasing commitments of financial and other resources. To ensure that the CommunityZero Core service is continually evolving, and always operated at a world-class level, we have decided to follow the recent upgrade to CommunityZero 2.0 with the introduction of modest membership fees. Many users have recognized the substantial costs of developing and delivering such a service. These users have clearly indicated their willingness to pay a reasonable fee to access a service that they find valuable. Fee revenues will establish the Core service as a self- sustained line of business within Ramius Corporation, directly supported by its users. Effective October 1st, restrictions will be implemented that will result in limited access to content by those members who have not purchased memberships. We have sought to structure a paid membership option that delivers members tremendous value at an extremely affordable price. Starting later this month, for a limited time, members will be offered Platinum Membership at a price of USD$29.95 PER YEAR. Such membership will convey the holder the ability to join and/or start an UNLIMITED number of communities, and utilize an UNLIMITED number of pageviews when using CommunityZero Core. In other words, for less than USD$2.50 per month, Platinum Members will have full and unrestricted access to the service. This is an introductory, limited time offer. And, as has always been the case, our members will not be subject to any advertising from third-parties while using CommunityZero. Users who do not purchase Platinum Memberships will remain members of the communities that they have joined. As members of the communities, they will continue to receive broadcast emails from the community administrators, and they will also receive periodic updates summarizing community activity if they have subscribed to do so. These members will be able to login to CommunityZero and edit their account information or deactivate their accounts at any time. As well, they will be able to enter communities they are a part of, and view the What's New and summary pages of each function. However, they will not be able to view content in detail unless they purchase a Platinum Membership to CommunityZero. Later this month, you will be able to purchase Platinum Membership for yourself or others, by simply logging in and proceeding to the My Communities area of our website. There, you will find the appropriate links to purchase your Platinum Membership. Please note that our online transaction processing capabilities are not yet available on the website. This email is being distributed in advance of our official announcement of this change, to provide you the necessary time to prepare accordingly. For community founders interested in continuing to offer access to their communities to users, without requiring their community users to pay for CommunityZero membership, we offer other options. For more information, please follow the link below. http://www.ramius.net/details.cfm In anticipation of some of the questions that our users may have, we have posted several informational pages on our website. Please visit the following link to find answers to what we anticipate will be some frequently asked questions. http://www.ramius.net/faq.cfm Thank you again for using CommunityZero. If you do not wish to receive update or newsletter emails in the future, please unsubscribe using the following link: http://www.communityzero.com/u?str_email=goofy1@suscom.net Sincerely, Alfred Jay President & CEO Ramius Corporation (developers of CommunityZero) www.communityzero.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 19:15:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18869 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:15:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84NFhtj015512; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:15:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84NFgm15327; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84NBtm13553 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.41.124]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020904231149.OTPK11061.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 23:11:49 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020904180711.02aea2f0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Not-a-Dissapointment In-Reply-To: <29C5FC71A8F@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <20020904044158.7583.19764.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 18:10:36 -0500 Status: RO At 10:48 AM 9/4/2002 +0000, Teddy wrote: >Following on the heels of the disappointment over the linen that >wasn't linen.... > >The fabric I was actually dying when I threw the offcut of non-linen >in to test it came out *beautifully.* > >It was a length of lovely figured velvet that Danielle brought over for >me in January (from the Orange Bag shop in Toronto, right >Danielle?). It's beautiful stuff, remeniscent of the patterned velvets >seen in Tudor-bethan portraits with the pattern picked out in longish >pile velvet and the background in unpiled plain-weave (probably the >reason several pieces of it in various colours were in Danielle's >stash in the first place, right Danielle?) I got some of the voided velvet from Designer Fabric Outlet http://www.designerfabricsonline.com/ (aka the Orange Bag Store) and some from MacDonald Faber http://www.macdonaldfaber.com/ I managed to find some fabulous ones that look just like some of the stuff you see in the portraits. They are 100% cotton, plain weave back with a medium length pile. I basically bought all I could... : ) Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 19:16:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18873 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:15:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g84NG0tj015536; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84NG0m15445; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g84NBnm13499 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:11:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.41.124]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020904231143.OTLH11061.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 23:11:43 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020904180425.02aecd60@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: H-Costume fabric swap and sell was Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership In-Reply-To: <019501c2545f$1386c1a0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 18:06:33 -0500 Status: RO Well, I was going to post to the list and ask if people even want to continue it since it has been awhile since anyone has posted anything. If anyone has suggestions of new locations for it. I would be interested in hearing it. At 06:04 PM 9/4/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Is it time to move our fabric swap to a different server? It really doesn't >warrant enough activity to justify a $30.00 annual membership! > >Dianne >----- Original Message ----- >COMMUNITYZERO: IMPORTANT CHANGES TO CORE MEMBERSHIP > >Dear CommunityZero Core Member, >Effective October 1st, restrictions will be implemented that >will result in limited access to content by those members >who have not purchased memberships. > >We have sought to structure a paid membership option that >delivers members tremendous value at an extremely affordable >price. Starting later this month, for a limited time, >members will be offered Platinum Membership at a price of >USD$29.95 PER YEAR. Such membership will convey the holder >the ability to join and/or start an UNLIMITED number of >communities, and utilize an UNLIMITED number of pageviews >when using CommunityZero Core. In other words, for less >than USD$2.50 per month, Platinum Members will have full and >unrestricted access to the service. This is an >introductory, limited time offer. And, as has always been >the case, our members will not be subject to any advertising >from third-parties while using CommunityZero. > >Users who do not purchase Platinum Memberships will remain >members of the communities that they have joined. As >members of the communities, they will continue to receive >broadcast emails from the community administrators, and they >will also receive periodic updates summarizing community >activity if they have subscribed to do so. These members >will be able to login to CommunityZero and edit their >account information or deactivate their accounts at any >time. As well, they will be able to enter communities they >are a part of, and view the What's New and summary pages of >each function. However, they will not be able to view >content in detail unless they purchase a Platinum Membership >to CommunityZero. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 20:33:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19391 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:33:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g850Xntj019980; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g850Xfm15357; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g850Slm13549 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-236-86.s86.tnt3.frdb.va.dialup.rcn.com ([216.164.236.86] helo=ashley) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17mkVp-0000f2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 20:28:46 -0400 From: "Ashley Wells" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: religious mixing of fibers Message-ID: <002101c25473$30c19380$56eca4d8@ashley> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:28:37 -0400 Status: RO One of the significant religious aspects of shatnes (the ban on mixing unlike fibers - specifically wool and linen) is to set a precedent on mixing unlike species, breeds, etc. - wool is an animal fiber, linen/flax is plant. The prohibition is generally extended to include cross-breeding animals of different species: cross breeding Jacob and karakul sheep would be ok (depending on the particular rabbi's interpretation), but a mule (a horse crossed with an ass) is not ok. The premise is that God created the species: sheep, flax, horses, donkeys, etc., and only God can create totally new things - like a cross between a plant and an animal. Man is forbidden to play around with genetics or even to produce goods that give the impression that man can play around with genetics (such as a fabric of linen and wool would appear). You're right - God didn't have to give a reason, so generations of scholars have attempted to divine God's reasons for thousands of years - there are tons of Talmudic discourses on shatnes, if you care to look. Hope this helps. Regards, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:39 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: religious mixing of fibers I haven't read any Levitical commentary lately, but the last time I did I remember reading that one purpose postulated for this and many of the similar bans was to differentiate the Israelites from other tribes in the area. They were the chosen people, so they had to dress, eat and act differently from other peoples. Of course, as previously noted, God (if you believe that the laws came from God) didn't give a reason. Gail Finke Cincinnati _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 21:44:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19745 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 21:44:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g851iqtj023477; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g851ifm07641; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g851eKm06365 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:40:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16835 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:43:21 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership In-Reply-To: <019501c2545f$1386c1a0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:43:21 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > Is it time to move our fabric swap to a different server? It really > doesn't warrant enough activity to justify a $30.00 annual membership! Wow, I didn't get one of these notices! I'll pass this on to Danielle, in case she hasn't seen it yet (last I heard she was behind on her listmail). Yahoo-groups would serve our purposes well enough, since it's got room for photos, and most of us are familiar with how it works. I'm still confused by the CommunityZero setup! And I wonder if we'll get more postings on a familiar server. I'm getting ready to post some more fabric myself soon. More stash cleaning... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 22:00:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19780 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 22:00:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8520gtj024361; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8520fm12470; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:00:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g851t0m10717 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.225.255.146]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020905015455.EUPR1399.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 01:54:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3D76B96D.3060203@attbi.com> From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 18:54:53 -0700 Status: RO What is this about a fabric swap? -eyes widening with a glee- Roscelin Robin Netherton wrote: >On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > >>Is it time to move our fabric swap to a different server? It really >>doesn't warrant enough activity to justify a $30.00 annual membership! >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 22:07:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19808 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 22:07:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8527gtj024671; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8527fm14554; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:07:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g851wxm11838 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16955 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 21:02:03 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: religious mixing of fibers In-Reply-To: <002101c25473$30c19380$56eca4d8@ashley> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 21:02:02 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Ashley Wells wrote: > One of the significant religious aspects of shatnes (the ban on mixing > unlike fibers - specifically wool and linen) is to set a precedent on > mixing unlike species, breeds, etc. - wool is an animal fiber, > linen/flax is plant. ... The premise is that God created the species: > sheep, flax, horses, donkeys, etc., and only God can create totally > new things - like a cross between a plant and an animal. Man is > forbidden to play around with genetics or even to produce goods that > give the impression that man can play around with genetics (such as a > fabric of linen and wool would appear). I've heard that interpretation myself, but it doesn't seem consistent with the actual practice. Based on the information I saw on the websites I posted, other plant/animal fiber mixes are not prohibited. Hemp linen and cotton and silk are all OK to mix with each other and with wool. The ban apparently is strictly on sheep wool plus flax. That's what's in written law, but it still surprised me because generally -- as you say -- rules like this tend to be extended to avoid even the *appearance* of an inappropriate mixing. For instance, the entire meat/dairy separation in kosher law stems from a single Torah prohibition about not boiling a kid in its mother's milk. I had expected that the fiber prohibitions would have been extended likewise, but apparently they have not. Or else the shatnes organization (whose website I posted) is not representative of common practice, though I don't know any other groups practicing to this extent. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 4 22:25:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19859 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 22:25:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g852Pgtj025491; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g852Pgm19933; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g852Hsm17519 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phil1079.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.136.79]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g852Hn17023408 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 22:17:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3D76BCA1.61D17248@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: religious mixing of fibers References: <002101c25473$30c19380$56eca4d8@ashley> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 22:08:33 -0400 Status: RO Hi. An excellent explanation of the subject. I was talking to someone else, and they mentioned the very same thing. They said to look in the section of Leviticus or Deuteronomy where the proscription lies, and note the other proscriptions near it, which have similar overtones of mixing things which are different. Perhaps this is why the Coptic Christians intentionally mixed wool and linen, to set them apart as the "new" Chosen People. Thanks for all of the interesting discussion on this subject... Mike T. > One of the significant religious aspects of shatnes (the ban on mixing > unlike fibers - specifically wool and linen) is to set a precedent on > mixing unlike species, breeds, etc. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 03:09:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05202 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 03:09:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8579jtj007134; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 01:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8579fm11488; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 01:09:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8573Fm09933 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 01:03:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020905070314.26668.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 08:03:14 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:03:14 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > I'll pass this on to Danielle, in case she hasn't seen it yet (last I > heard she was behind on her listmail). Yahoo-groups would serve our > purposes well enough, since it's got room for photos, and most of us are > familiar with how it works. I'm still confused by the CommunityZero setup! > And I wonder if we'll get more postings on a familiar server. Yahoogroups has these annoying gazillions of adverts, I personally like Smartgroups, for free, same features as yahoo, and less ads. Ever tried it? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 04:14:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09681 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 04:14:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g858Dgtj009839; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 02:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g858Dfm28116; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 02:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g858Aim27331 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 02:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 939921E1C1C; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:10:41 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020905081041.939921E1C1C@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:10:41 BST Status: RO N Kipar wrote : > Yahoogroups has these annoying gazillions of adverts, I personally like > Smartgroups, for free, same features as yahoo, and less ads. Ever tried it? I use it. Very fast response from support, unlike Yahoo who don't respond at all. Just been doing some major upgrades, so there've been a few hiccups, but those should be over now. WebTV users and Hotmail apparently have problems at times. There's an on-going bug with the calendar and repeated events that don't. Personally I find it very fast and very friendly. But you may be using different features from me. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 06:42:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10009 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 06:42:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85Afhtj013872; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 04:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85Affm03020; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 04:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85AWEm00778 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 04:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5912820960 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 06:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CF9942093F for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 06:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <048201c254c7$29bb21b0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <20020905070314.26668.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 06:29:49 -0400 Status: RO I've tried it. Service was down more, and nowhere near as many features as Yahoo...I like the idea of archives, and with the files and photos sections, room for a gazillion pics. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership > --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > > > I'll pass this on to Danielle, in case she hasn't seen it yet (last I > > heard she was behind on her listmail). Yahoo-groups would serve our > > purposes well enough, since it's got room for photos, and most of us are > > familiar with how it works. I'm still confused by the CommunityZero setup! > > And I wonder if we'll get more postings on a familiar server. > > Yahoogroups has these annoying gazillions of adverts, I personally like > Smartgroups, for free, same features as yahoo, and less ads. Ever tried it? > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 07:00:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10048 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:00:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85B0htj014516; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 05:00:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85B0gm07823; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 05:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g85AnUm05090 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 04:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020905104929.6429.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:49:29 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <048201c254c7$29bb21b0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:49:29 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > I've tried it. Service was down more, and nowhere near as many features as > Yahoo...I like the idea of archives, and with the files and photos sections, > room for a gazillion pics. When did you try it? They have upgraded tremendously. They have archives. Files sections. Picture sections. Lots of other services. Anyway, it doesn't matter, since I can't see a point in joining, is too expensive to send fabric over the atlantic. What a shame. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 07:10:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10066 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:10:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85BAgtj014766; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 05:10:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85BAfm10445; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 05:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85B6hm09434 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 05:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id A30501E1C1C; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 12:06:39 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020905110639.A30501E1C1C@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 12:06:39 BST Status: RO Nichole: I personally like > > Smartgroups, for free, same features as yahoo, and less ads. Ever tried > it? Dianne And Greg Stucki wrote : > I've tried it. Service was down more, and nowhere near as many features as > Yahoo...I like the idea of archives, and with the files and photos sections, > room for a gazillion pics. Less features? Just curious, which ones are missing? The files area is right there, I use it all the time. Archives... yep. And no space limits that I know of. No chat, though, was that the feature you missed? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 08:34:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10233 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:34:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85CYhtj017465; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 06:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85CYgm03915; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 06:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85CURm02659 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 06:30:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19548 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:33:32 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership In-Reply-To: <048201c254c7$29bb21b0$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:33:32 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > I've tried it. Service was down more, and nowhere near as many > features as Yahoo...I like the idea of archives, and with the files > and photos sections, room for a gazillion pics. Given that the swap&sell group has only a few messages, I wouldn't mind the gazillion ads -- it's not like I'd be reading them multiple times a day. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 11:01:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11264 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:01:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85F1Ctj025149; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:01:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85F19m03239; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85Eqbm28245 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21103 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:55:43 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] TV movie alert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:55:43 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Here's a promo for an upcoming Hallmark Channel feature: An "adult" version of Snow White, with Kristin ("Smallville") Kreuk wearing a pseudo-bliaut in the title role. The email newsletter I got had a full-length picture showing tremendous hanging sleeves; there's just a bust shot on this page, I'm afraid. Premieres 9/26 for those who have Hallmark on cable. http://www.hallmarkchannelus.com/tv/shows/snowwhite.asp --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 11:04:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11287 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:04:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85F4ttj025391; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85F4rm05331; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:04:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85F0Rm02685 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21168 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:03:33 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership In-Reply-To: <3D76B96D.3060203@attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:03:33 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Roscelin wrote: > What is this about a fabric swap? -eyes widening with a glee- No one else answered, so I will: It's a list where those of us with extra stash, patterns, etc. offer stuff for sale or trade. Not many messages lately, but I know that whenever I clean out another part of the sewing room, I post a few things, and I've always found buyers, so there must be *some* interest out there. Membership is restricted, for h-cost list members only. I think I will wait on my next posting till Danielle chooses another server for us. I don't like Yahoo for regular lists, but I'm OK with it for something like this. Or Smartgroups, if that looks as easy to use. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 11:11:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11377 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:11:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85FBktj025944; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:11:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85FBhm09240; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:11:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85F5um05943 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWmVKZIcOXS55aDvGDjZOIpcjSetLv3DnGA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id HBXYKR2A; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:05:33 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership Message-ID: <20020905.110509.-157701.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:01:42 -0400 Status: RO I don't know about Smartgroups, but I HATE Yahoo!!! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 16:20:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13896 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:20:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85KKZtj024294; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85KKVS14072; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85KB7S08323 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.120] (as3-4-134.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.120]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g85KB5v20310 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:47:38 -0700 Status: RO At 7:33 AM -0500 9/5/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > >> I've tried it. Service was down more, and nowhere near as many >> features as Yahoo...I like the idea of archives, and with the files >> and photos sections, room for a gazillion pics. > >Given that the swap&sell group has only a few messages, I wouldn't mind >the gazillion ads -- it's not like I'd be reading them multiple times a >day. Can anyone give specific numbers on the volume for the swap & sell group? I know that it can be good to separate discussion and commercial aspects of a group, but if the "commercial" volume is extremely small, might it be a more efficient compromise to go back to having people announce available items on the main list -- as long as we work really really hard to keep the subsequent responses to private e-mail? Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 17:38:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14667 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 17:38:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85Lcktj000856; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85LcjS05354; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:38:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85LQFS27202 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:26:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23762 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:29:22 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:29:22 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > Can anyone give specific numbers on the volume for the swap & sell > group? I know that it can be good to separate discussion and > commercial aspects of a group, but if the "commercial" volume is > extremely small, might it be a more efficient compromise to go back to > having people announce available items on the main list -- as long as > we work really really hard to keep the subsequent responses to private > e-mail? There's only been a handful of messages since the group started (around the turn of this year) -- maybe less than a dozen in all that time. Perhaps announcements on the main list would work well enough. I think when Danielle started the side list, it was in expectation that we'd have too many sale offers to politely handle on the list, and that perhaps people were refraining from posting such things to avoid inappropriate volume of sales posts. Before that, though, I periodically offered extra fabric on the list, and I've seen other people offer patterns. I don't mind that myself, but perhaps other people do. I think a lot depends on not abusing the audience. I think one reason the volume was so low is that CZ isn't really an email list; it's a web page, and messages appear there. We get notifications when someone posts, but we have to go to the page to read, and it can be difficult to actually find your way to the messages. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 5 21:04:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15171 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:04:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86156tj014483; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 19:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86153S13057; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 19:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g85D2tm12246 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:02:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19750; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:05:19 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: DISTAFF list: ; Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Urgent CFP: Dress & Textiles sessions, Kalamazoo Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:05:19 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO (This message is going to the people who signed up for the DISTAFF list at the costume and textiles sessions at the International Medieval Congresses at Kalamazoo or Leeds. DISTAFF (Discussion, Interpretation, and Study of Textile Arts, Fabrics, and Fashion) is a group formed to link conference attendees who are interested in the study of medieval and Renaissance textiles and dress.) Feel free to pass this on to other interested scholars or suitable lists: Due to the unexpected withdrawal of a speaker, we have found ourselves with one extra opening in the Dress & Textiles sessions for the 2003 Kalamazoo Congress. If you were considering proposing a paper for DISTAFF, now is the time to do it. We can use one more paper that will fit one of these session topics: -- I. Martial Clothing and Fashion. We'd be interested on papers about (for example) clothing worn for fighting, the relationship between armor and clothing styles, the use of heraldry in battle dress, the effect of wartime on fashion, documentary/literary descriptions of martial clothing, or similar topics. -- II. Dress and Textiles for Special Occasions. Some examples might be clothing or textile use for weddings, knightings, coronations, etc. We welcome papers from any discipline, including literature, art history, political history, etc. The 2003 Congress is scheduled for 8-11 May. You can view the Call for Papers at . If you're on the conference mailing list, you should have received your hardcopy version by postal mail by now. Our sessions appear in the "Sponsored Sessions" section, under DISTAFF. The deadline for paper proposals is, as usual, 15 September. However, we would strongly suggest that you contact us as soon as possible if you think you would like to propose a paper. Often there is a rush at the last minute. If you have questions about the Congress, please check the website at . Robin Netherton Gale Owen-Crocker DISTAFF _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 01:28:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16239 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:28:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g865Sitj027747; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g865SgS05690; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g865LkS03876 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:21:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.41.124]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020906052141.JKVX13899.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 05:21:41 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020906001903.00a92450@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 00:20:05 -0500 Status: RO At 09:47 AM 9/5/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Can anyone give specific numbers on the volume for the swap & sell >group? I know that it can be good to separate discussion and commercial >aspects of a group, but if the "commercial" volume is extremely small, >might it be a more efficient compromise to go back to having people >announce available items on the main list -- as long as we work really >really hard to keep the subsequent responses to private e-mail? > >Heather There are currently 148 members and there has been one post since May. Does that answer your question? Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 01:56:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16272 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:56:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g865uktj028798; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g865ujS12858; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g865bNS07905 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:37:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AFDA76900AE; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 00:40:42 -0500 Message-ID: <004301c25567$a00e9d60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020906001903.00a92450@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:38:27 -0400 Status: RO Seems no one wants to share their fabric right now.... visions of everyone sitting in their closet saying, "Its mine! All mine!" Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 12:22:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11184 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:22:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86GN6tj025678; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86GN3S03938; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86GBxS27240 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.107.78]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AKX83849; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:10:16 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00c801c255c0$8fbe7260$ab784ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Whitby Jet Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:15:03 +0100 Status: RO Anybody know of an online source for Crosses of Whitby jet please ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 13:13:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12197 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:13:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86HE2tj029899; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86HE0S05312; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86HDXS05091 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:13:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smui01.slb.mindspring.net ([199.174.114.21]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17nMfj-00015d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 13:13:31 -0400 Received: by smui01.slb.mindspring.net id NAA0000008831; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:13:30 -0400 (EDT) From: To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whitby Jet Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 64.167.230.74 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: claning@igc.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 13:13:29 -0400 Status: RO Hmmm. The people I bought a string of (Chinese) jet beads from say that the vein of jet at Whitby has been pretty much worked out, so little if any new stuff is available. I seem to recall reading an article to the same effect. In that case, your best hope might be to find something on the antique market, at antique-market prices unfortunately. Chinese jet isn't as good -- it's less hard and less shiny -- but it may be at least a little easier to find. I paid about $20 US for a string of 50 beads about 8mm in size a couple of years ago.I believe there is (or was) also jet in Spain -- souvenir rosaries at Compostela used to be made from it. Other than that, I know that jet was very commonly counterfeited in the Victorian era by black opaque glass. I would expect that black onyx (which is usually dyed) would also be okay as a substitute. I'd be happy to be corrected on this by anyone who knows more than I do :) On Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:15:03 +0100 Melanie Wilson wrote: > Anybody know of an online source for Crosses of > Whitby jet please ? ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 13:27:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12474 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:27:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86HR2tj001213; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86HR0S13733; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86HQeS13543 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host62-6-77-61.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.77.61] helo=dan) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17nMsQ-0000SN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 18:26:38 +0100 Message-ID: <002301c255ca$fa2b6d60$3d4d063e@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:29:34 +0100 Status: RO Hi all, I just came across this item on E-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955058120 Yes, it's a GOTHIC Black Medieval Wench Corset. But at least you haven't come across this "costume" out there: see http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955026444 for the costume described as: >ALL OVER LACE AND LYCRA GOTHIC MEDIEVAL "WENCH" BABYDOLL >WITH MATHCHING THONG! I'm not sure what a "mathching thong" is, and I don't think I want to know, either. But if anyone can tell me how to search e-bay without having to plod through acres of pseudo historical costumes I should be very grateful. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 13:46:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12793 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:46:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86Hj5tj002673; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86Hj1S24866; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86HiOS24461 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:44:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g86HiMY5006110 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:44:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... In-Reply-To: <002301c255ca$fa2b6d60$3d4d063e@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > Hi all, > I just came across this item on E-bay: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955058120 > > Yes, it's a GOTHIC Black Medieval Wench Corset. I suspect they put "Gothic" in the title to attract the attention of the Goth scene types... i.e., it's black, right? I find that black ankle boots are almost always described as 'Goth' or 'Gothic' on Ebay. Anyway, does anyone have an idea as to what pattern this person is using? I could see making one of those, for modern wear (i.e., with a matching skirt and bolero), and have been trying to find a pattern like that, without success. > But at least you haven't come across this "costume" out there: see > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955026444 Ewwww! -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 14:13:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13111 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:13:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86IE5tj005149; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:14:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86IE1S12713; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86ICPS11806 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip25.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.25]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g86ICHP12374 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:12:19 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whitby Jet Message-ID: <3D788FAB.18081.13161A06@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:21:15 -0700 Status: RO > Other than that, I know that jet was very commonly counterfeited in > the Victorian era by black opaque glass. I would expect that black > onyx (which is usually dyed) would also be okay as a substitute. Black glass was not only used as a jet substitute in Victorian era. It was also *quite* common in the Tudor era as well, especially for rosaries/paternosters. It even shows up in items in the inventories of Henry VIII. In terms of jet from specific areas, that part I don't have any more information (although it is also found in some of the areas of the eastern Europe.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 14:15:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13136 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:15:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86IG0tj005311; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86IG0S13849; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86IEmS13144 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:14:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AngelaFLazear (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g86IElr147376 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:14:47 -0400 Message-ID: <005601c255d1$40608b70$140010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:14:32 -0700 Status: RO Mara, I'm almost positive that is the Fredericks corset that came out about 3-4 years ago. It's pretty good for theatrical "quickie" corset use, so I've got quite a few. It retails for $65 (way too much, I know) but in a pinch it beats no corset at all. Hardly qualifies as outerwear in my book though... angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "The truth of it is, I have no shirt." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin & Mara Riley" To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... > On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I just came across this item on E-bay: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955058120 > > > > Yes, it's a GOTHIC Black Medieval Wench Corset. > > I suspect they put "Gothic" in the title to attract the attention of the > Goth scene types... i.e., it's black, right? I find that black ankle > boots are almost always described as 'Goth' or 'Gothic' on Ebay. > > Anyway, does anyone have an idea as to what pattern this person is using? > I could see making one of those, for modern wear (i.e., with a matching > skirt and bolero), and have been trying to find a pattern like that, > without success. > > > > But at least you haven't come across this "costume" out there: see > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955026444 > > Ewwww! > > -- Mara > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 14:30:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13398 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:30:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86IUEtj006343; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86IUAS21468; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86ISLS20568 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([213.107.35.201]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020906182820.CUUW1968.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 19:28:20 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whitby Jet Message-ID: <3D7901D3.20637.7DDC50@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-description: Mail message body Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g86ISLS20568 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 19:28:19 +0100 Status: RO On 6 Sep 2002 at 13:13, claning@igc.org wrote: > On Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:15:03 +0100 Melanie Wilson > wrote: > > > Anybody know of an online source for Crosses of > > Whitby jet please ? Doing a quick Google search, I've learnt a lot about Whitby Jet, so thanks. Antique dealers are expensive: it's a cross, but $300? http://www.francascollection.com/Templates/frmTem plateS.asp?CatalogID=595 and one on a chain for $450 http://www.hhantiques.co.uk/jetn.htm This guy's a bit more reasonable: http://mysite.freeserve.com/jetjewellery/ makes his own stuff, and the cross is more the £15 mark. Doesn't take credit cards, though. Looks like a trip to Whitby could be rewarding, if you're close enough? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 15:21:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14261 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:21:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86JMAtj010505; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86JM0S21149; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86JLIS20697 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:21:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-175-176.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.175.176] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17nOfM-00065j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 20:21:16 +0100 Message-ID: <004b01c255da$fd89e760$3d4d063e@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] "1870's Post Civil War Purple Dress" on E-bay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 20:24:12 +0100 Status: RO Hi everyone, People with an interest in this can find the dress at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136421153 best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 15:56:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14812 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:56:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86Ju4tj013352; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86Ju1S10864; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86JsDS09922 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-175-176.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.175.176] helo=dan) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17nPBD-0006YB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 20:54:12 +0100 Message-ID: <006701c255df$96ffa700$3d4d063e@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] (Whitby) Jet on E-bay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 20:57:07 +0100 Status: RO Hi, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136537256 has a "Victorian Black Embossed Cape w Jet~Lace"; the cape is shattered badly but the vendor suggests that it may be worth buying "for it's silk bow and jet since these are in excellent condition." Present bid is $5 which is rather cheaper than the alternatives, and you could always stick the jet onto black metal to simulate Berlin ironwork... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 16:13:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15073 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:13:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86KE1tj014790; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86KE0S21288; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12006.mail.yahoo.com (web12006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.214]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g86KCnS20651 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:12:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020906201244.28103.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.236] by web12006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 13:12:44 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] e-bay links, undyeing fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I just checked the e-bay links. yuk but I just got done at the museum and my tolerance for non-period is completely shot just now. I've also got some 100% linen and some linen/rayon in with some dye remover so I'll see if this works as well as you all say it does. How period is the raw silk at JoAnns. They just marked some pieces down to 2.88 so I got a couple of dress lengths. The raspberry pink is way to bright but I figure if the dye remover calms it down I can overdye to something in the red family. Is blue a period color for the Helena Snakenborg portrait I'm using for inspiration? Back to the car pool. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 16:15:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15099 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:15:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86KG3tj014949; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86KG2S22557; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86KFQS22166 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:15:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-175-176.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.175.176] helo=dan) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17nPVl-0000oX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 21:15:25 +0100 Message-ID: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 21:18:21 +0100 Status: RO Hi all, I haven't the faintest idea whether this really is Victorian, but it's a remarkable garment. There are around 20 pictures, so it takes a long time to load. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136734327 I'll look forward to our Victorian specialists' comments on this... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 16:25:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15214 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:25:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86KQ2tj015716; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86KQ0S28471; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86KORS27544 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.130] (pm4-130.eos.net [205.133.149.130]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09290 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:24:24 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020906180008.4141.8059.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: and you thought renfaires were bad Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:23:12 -0400 Status: RO Ha ha! What a hideous looking thing, too! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 16:53:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15548 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:53:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86Ks3tj018210; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86Ks2S14798; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86KrcS14529 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-65.59.81.85.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [65.59.81.85]) by pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g86Krba95738 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:53:37 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c255e7$b7010960$55513b41@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:55:14 -0400 Status: RO I was wondering.... if I understand correctly, the velvet was cut, and then the area embroidered to accent. Would this be how the cut velvet would have been done in, say, the 16th century? There is a little girl's gown in Patterns of Fashion that my daughter has begged for for years, and I would love to be able to try duplicating the pattern in the velvet, but didn't know how. Moira > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136734327 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 17:34:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15679 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:34:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86LZ2tj021300; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86LZ1S08144; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86LYrS08062 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net ([10.116.0.123]) by scanmail3.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:59:06 -0700 Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123] by scanmail3.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A71AE0024A; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 13:59:06 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Fri, 06 Sep 2002 13:59:06 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" Message-ID: <000001c255e8$c2bb65b0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:02:49 -0500 Status: RO Wow! I'll take several... Looks like 1880's to me. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Stevie Gamble Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:18 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" Hi all, I haven't the faintest idea whether this really is Victorian, but it's a remarkable garment. There are around 20 pictures, so it takes a long time to load. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136734327 I'll look forward to our Victorian specialists' comments on this... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 17:52:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15786 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86LqFtj022583; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:52:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86LqFS17616; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:52:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86LpaS17285 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:51:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.135]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H2100A2SE1YGN@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:51:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... In-reply-to: <002301c255ca$fa2b6d60$3d4d063e@dan> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020906144208.00dc2100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:45:56 -0700 Status: RO >But at least you haven't come across this "costume" out there: see > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955026444 Just in time for Halloween? >But if anyone can tell me how to search e-bay without >having to plod through acres of pseudo historical costumes I should be >very grateful. Use the search function. Using a '-' ,in front of the words you want skipped in the search, is useful. Searching for some specific is also useful. I go to the historical clothing section and say " Victorian -style -Gunne -sax ", to avoid the worst of that problem when looking for Victorian clothing. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 17:52:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15790 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86Lq2tj022557; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86Lq1S17496; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86LpbS17293 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:51:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.135]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H2100A2SE1YGN@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:51:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] "1870's Post Civil War Purple Dress" on E-bay In-reply-to: <004b01c255da$fd89e760$3d4d063e@dan> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020906144819.00dc4ee0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:49:24 -0700 Status: RO >People with an interest in this can find the dress at: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136421153 Nice silhouette. I wish they had photographed it against a darker background, or outside, so the details would show. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 18:32:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15961 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:32:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86MX6tj025477; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86MX1S08334; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86MW4S07867 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.135]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H21005NXFWLNG@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:31:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] (Whitby) Jet on E-bay In-reply-to: <006701c255df$96ffa700$3d4d063e@dan> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020906151753.04ca4840@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:22:13 -0700 Status: RO >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136537256 > >has a "Victorian Black Embossed Cape w Jet~Lace"; the cape is >shattered badly but the vendor suggests that it may be worth buying >"for it's silk bow and jet since these are in excellent condition." > >Present bid is $5 which is rather cheaper than the alternatives, and >you could always stick the jet onto black metal to simulate Berlin >ironwork... The problem arises when the dealers don't distinguish between 'jet' (carved stone), and 'jet glass' (mass produced black glass beads). I never believe beaded items have actual jet sewn on them, especially when I can find the mold flash some larger glass beads have. Real jet beads are usually bigger than the little glass beads usually used for sewing onto Victorian, etc., garments. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 6 18:32:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15962 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:32:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g86MXGtj025498; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86MXFS08435; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g86MW9S07918 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:32:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.135]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H21005NXFWLNG@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:31:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" In-reply-to: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020906152255.00c79610@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:24:34 -0700 Status: RO Oh, yeah, that one, drool. I'd believe it's real. There's too much handwork on it to not be real. (Even a compulsive like me doesn't do that much handwork on my repros...) And the shape is perfect. >I haven't the faintest idea whether this really is Victorian, but it's >a remarkable garment. There are around 20 pictures, so it takes a long >time to load. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136734327 > >I'll look forward to our Victorian specialists' comments on this... Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 7 04:03:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10200 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:03:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g87839tj018026; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 02:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g87830S16566; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 02:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8782mS16499 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 02:02:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A3727C50128; Sat, 07 Sep 2002 03:06:10 -0500 Message-ID: <019301c25645$237fb7a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Baby Petticoats Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:04:06 -0400 Status: RO I just ran across in a 1922 Lane Bryant maternity catalog where infant's petticoats were called "Gertrudes" (with a capital G). These are what we call today long baby slips. Does anyone know why they were called Gertrudes? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 7 04:11:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10264 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:11:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g878C1tj018257; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 02:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g878C1S18551; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 02:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g878BHS18376 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 02:11:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.105.105]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AKY30906; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 09:09:38 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <015701c25646$955a0780$d96b4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3D7901D3.20637.7DDC50@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whitby Jet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 09:14:25 +0100 Status: RO >Looks like a trip to Whitby could be rewarding, if you're close enough? I hope to get up there for the Goth festival, so it might be a good buy time :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 7 05:55:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10697 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 05:55:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g879u8tj021257; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 03:56:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g879u2S08804; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 03:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f171.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.171]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g879t4S08416 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 03:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 02:54:58 -0700 Received: from 12.232.52.91 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 07 Sep 2002 09:54:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.232.52.91] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2002 09:54:58.0703 (UTC) FILETIME=[A05609F0:01C25654] Subject: [h-cost] Re; Fabric swap Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 02:54:58 -0700 Status: RO Actually, it's not that I'm hoarding my fabric, I just can't figure out how to use the stupid CommunityZero interface. :\ I'm very familliar with Yahoo though, and rather fond of it. It gets my vote, though I don't really have anything to compare it to. -Laura _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 7 06:01:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10718 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 06:01:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g87A21tj021640; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g87A20S10389; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g87A1uS10377 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from attbi.com ([12.225.255.146]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020907100150.DYVV25823.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 10:01:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3D79CE90.5080601@attbi.com> From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] (Whitby) Jet on E-bay References: <006701c255df$96ffa700$3d4d063e@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 03:01:52 -0700 Status: RO Hi everyone! Guess what! I won the bid and bought it for $5.00. I couldn't resist it, I restored a Victorian dress many years ago. I thought I would see how bad it is, if it is totally ruined I thought I might be able to use the cape as a pattern. I'll let everyone know how it goes. Roscelin Stevie Gamble wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136537256 > >has a "Victorian Black Embossed Cape w Jet~Lace"; the cape is >shattered badly but the vendor suggests that it may be worth buying >"for it's silk bow and jet since these are in excellent condition." > >Present bid is $5 which is rather cheaper than the alternatives, and >you could always stick the jet onto black metal to simulate Berlin >ironwork... > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 7 06:11:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10766 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 06:11:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g87AC2tj021931; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g87AC1S15102; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f82.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.82]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g87ABrS15076 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:11:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 03:11:48 -0700 Received: from 12.232.52.91 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 07 Sep 2002 10:11:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.232.52.91] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2002 10:11:48.0504 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA397180:01C25656] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 03:11:47 -0700 Status: RO Geek Laura strikes again: Re: Cutting the garbage from ebay searches: To do this, you can type in "-foo" where "foo" is a word you'd like to exclude from the search. In other words, if you searched for "serger -thread" it would read to the computer as "return all records containing 'serger' but throw out those that contain 'thread' in the title". My favorite way to do this is to use one of the other nifty little search features, the OR syntax. This works by making a list of words that *might* be in the search. So if you typed in "fabric (vintage,antique)" it would return all entries with both "fabic" and "antique" or "fabric" and "vintage" in it. How *I* like to use the syntax is like this: "fabric -(quilt,fq,polyester,neon,ribbed,knit)" which is only a partial list of the fabrics I'm *not* looking for. :) Please note that you have to leave out the spaces in the OR syntax, or it won't work. More advanced search stuff can be found here: http://pages.ebay.com/help/index_popup.html?buy=search_commands.html Re: The Gothic Wench Corset The Gothic Wench Corset looks to me like a plain 'ol Freddie's of Hollywood corset. In fact, this is one of those very popular ones calle the "Renaissance Corset" (!?!!) though in my opinion, it's closer to a Georgian style. You can find these here: http://www.fredericks.com/shopItemDetail.asp?deptID=7&classID=&itemID=50640&SID=STQAKA25HLTK8LEGJ20AM0DWHF8WCUB1 Back to lurk mode for me. :) -Laura (the geek) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 7 14:01:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13748 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 14:01:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g87I25tj012691; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 12:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g87I21824219; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 12:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g87I17822993 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 12:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-123-40-246.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.123.40.246] helo=dan) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17njtI-0005aS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Sep 2002 19:01:05 +0100 Message-ID: <004101c25698$f440cb60$69a401d5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] E-bay Vintage Veil Hat in Original Box NR~ Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 19:04:01 +0100 Status: RO My E-bay searches seem to be getting better, thanks to the help from you all, but I have come across : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136636563 Is it 50's? At any rate, for $2 with an hour to go, it might interest someone on the list. Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 7 19:19:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15535 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 19:19:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g87NI3tj003220; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 17:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g87NI1M11606; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 17:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12007.mail.yahoo.com (web12007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.215]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g87NHaM11169 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 17:17:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020907231735.52904.qmail@web12007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.254] by web12007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Sep 2002 16:17:35 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] help with the undying! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 16:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Help! I tried running the linen and the linen blend through the washer with the dye remover. The blend gave up its dye right away but the linen soaked up all the dye from the water so now it's another color, rather pretty but it didn't take the dye evenly. Do I run the linen through again by itself? How often can I dye remove something before it weakens the fibers? What weight linen would smocks and shifts be for right next to the skin? How about for the embroidered smock on the Snakenborg portrait? Flipping through really old museum exhibition books at the grad library I saw a piece of linen done in blackwork. Someone had embroidered the sleeve shapes but then never cut them out so you could see the shapes of the sleeves unfinished and uncut out. The photo is very small and very old but I could look up the museum reference if anyone is interested. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 7 23:00:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16520 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 23:00:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8830Ctj012714; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 21:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8830AM03471; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 21:00:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20209.mail.yahoo.com (web20209.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.64]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g882xsM03099 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 20:59:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020908025953.46541.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 12:59:53 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020906152255.00c79610@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 12:59:53 +1000 (EST) Status: RO > >I haven't the faintest idea whether this really is > Victorian, but it's > >a remarkable garment. There are around 20 pictures, > so it takes a long > >time to load. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136734327 I don't know much about Victorian fashions, but the embroidery on this reminded me of a picture I have in one of my resource books. The book is Velvet: History Techniques Fashions, Edited by Fabrizio de Marinis. In the chapter entitled "Velvet in Fasion: From the Thirties to the Present" there is a detail picture of the bodice of a Balenciaga outfit in caramel-coloured velvet. The embroidery is couched cord in black (like on the Victorian jacket) only there is no velvet cut away beneath it. According to this book the outfit was displayed in Lyon in 1985 for the Balenciaga "retrospective". On a similar note, but in this case about Elsa Schiaparelli: "This designer/dressmaker of Italian origin adopted 'volants' and 'ruches' in the most elegant and sumptuous outfits, with embroideries on tight-fitting jackets...borrowed from the fashions of 1860 to 1880." Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Now send & receive IMs on your mobile via SMS _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 8 02:51:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17145 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 02:51:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g886q2tj022958; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 00:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g886q1c27440; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 00:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g886pCc26447 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 00:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.104.111]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AKY92018; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 07:49:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <003001c25704$8f475e60$6f684ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20020907231735.52904.qmail@web12007.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with the undying! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 07:53:46 +0100 Status: RO >How often can I dye remove something before it weakens the fibers? Every time you do it it will unfortunatly weaken it :( Linen needs 'forcing' to dye which is why it isn't giving it up the dye has got deep into its structure, wheras synthetics are manufactured to dye easily. What are you using to remove the dye ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 8 12:59:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23791 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 12:59:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g88Gw8tj001163; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 10:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88Gw2c18245; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 10:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88Gvrc18014 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 10:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.112] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AEE54A4D005E; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 12:46:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c25759$2cf429a0$705183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 13:00:02 -0400 Status: RO As for this corset; It is a usual feature piece in the :Fredericks of Hollywood catalogue, and sells for about $55-60. Actually, as a quick and dirty solution for a costume need, The fit and look is acceptable; at least for theatre. Kathleen who is delurking. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin & Mara Riley" To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... > On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I just came across this item on E-bay: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955058120 > > > > Yes, it's a GOTHIC Black Medieval Wench Corset. > > I suspect they put "Gothic" in the title to attract the attention of the > Goth scene types... i.e., it's black, right? I find that black ankle > boots are almost always described as 'Goth' or 'Gothic' on Ebay. > > Anyway, does anyone have an idea as to what pattern this person is using? > I could see making one of those, for modern wear (i.e., with a matching > skirt and bolero), and have been trying to find a pattern like that, > without success. > > > > But at least you haven't come across this "costume" out there: see > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955026444 > > Ewwww! > > -- Mara > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 8 15:12:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24800 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:12:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g88JC2tj014228; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 13:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88JC0c21576; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 13:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88JBMc21343 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 13:11:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AE2D88C3005E; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 14:59:57 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c2576b$d2cc0b60$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> <001f01c255e7$b7010960$55513b41@momdad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:13:31 -0400 Status: RO May I suggest that the method used to embellish this cape was one of applique (with satin) that has been outlined and beaded with black "jet". I have several examples of this kind of ornamentation on similar garments in my collection..Among velvets that feature "burnout", non are any earlier than about 1919. This jacket/cape dates 1888-1893. Kathleen M. Message ----- From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" > I was wondering.... if I understand correctly, the velvet was cut, and then > the area embroidered to accent. Would this be how the cut velvet would have > been done in, say, the 16th century? There is a little girl's gown in > Patterns of Fashion that my daughter has begged for for years, and I would > love to be able to try duplicating the pattern in the velvet, but didn't > know how. > Moira > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136734327 > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 8 15:14:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24805 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:14:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g88JE0tj014578; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 13:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88JE0c22953; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 13:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88JDFc22265 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 13:13:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AE9F89A1005E; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 15:01:51 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c2576c$1644fe60$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> <001f01c255e7$b7010960$55513b41@momdad> Subject: Re: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:14:51 -0400 Status: RO May I suggest that this garment has been appliqued and the edges embellished with braid and beads. I have a couple of wraps of this period and this is the manner of ornamentation. Burned out velvet is quite another process and at least from examples of that art, it was not a ----- Original Message ----- From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" > I was wondering.... if I understand correctly, the velvet was cut, and then > the area embroidered to accent. Would this be how the cut velvet would have > been done in, say, the 16th century? There is a little girl's gown in > Patterns of Fashion that my daughter has begged for for years, and I would > love to be able to try duplicating the pattern in the velvet, but didn't > know how. > Moira > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136734327 > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 8 16:50:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25174 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 16:50:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g88Ko2tj012841; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 14:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88Ko1c09211; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 14:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88KnQc08756 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 14:49:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip190.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.190]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g88KnOV3001602 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 16:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209082049.g88KnOV3001602@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... In-Reply-To: <005601c255d1$40608b70$140010ac@AngelaFLazear> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 16:47:56 -0400 Status: RO Thanks, Angela... I've seen some custom garments with a similar shape, made in a fancier brocade or damask and paired with a matching skirt and maybe vestigial sleeves, worn as formal wear. Have been looking for a commercial pattern, but so far, no luck. Cheers Mara At 11:14 AM 9/6/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Mara, > >I'm almost positive that is the Fredericks corset that came out about 3-4 >years ago. It's pretty good for theatrical "quickie" corset use, so I've got >quite a few. It retails for $65 (way too much, I know) but in a pinch it >beats no corset at all. Hardly qualifies as outerwear in my book though... > >angela Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 8 17:27:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25350 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 17:27:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g88LR3tj022226; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88LR1c14091; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88LQBc13083 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:26:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust15.tnt1.myrtle-beach.sc.da.uu.net ([67.226.239.15] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17o9ZK-0005qW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 14:26:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3D7BCDBC.82B0575F@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap References: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> <001f01c255e7$b7010960$55513b41@momdad> <000c01c2576b$d2cc0b60$665183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 17:22:52 -0500 Status: RO Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > May I suggest that the method used to embellish this cape was one of > applique (with satin) that has been outlined and beaded with black "jet". I > have several examples of this kind of ornamentation on similar garments in > my collection..Among velvets that feature "burnout", non are any earlier > than about 1919. This jacket/cape dates 1888-1893. Kathleen M. While I agree that satin applique with black jet was used as an ornamentation on capes of this type, I disagree that that is the method here. This may not be "burnout" velvet in a technical sense but rather pile-on-pile velvet (what many people call cut velvet), which has been around since the Renaissance. (The seller mentions "Floral patterns cut into the plush silk velvet.") Voided velvet is also a possibility. The distinction is that pile-on-pile velvet has piles that are different heights to create a pattern, and voided velvet is woven such that velvet pile only appears in certain places, leaving the ground fabric bare in others, to create a pattern. What is today known as burnout velvet might be woven as a voided velvet, or it might be selectively treated with a chemical that eats away the pile but not the ground in the places where it is applied. (There may be other methods, but those are the ones I know.) In case anyone is interested, you can buy this chemical in a home-use form called Fiber Etch. It will eat away cotton, linen, and rayon fibers, so you can use it for "burnout" on pile fabrics with grounds of other fibers or you can create cutwork on fabrics that are 100% plant fiber. Back to the cloak--it looks to me like pile-on-pile or voided velvet embellished with black soutache braid or silk cording. Stunning, too! Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 8 17:36:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25385 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 17:36:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g88La1tj025220; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88La0c24357; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88LZfc23991 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H2500GAF2NH6I@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 14:35:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... In-reply-to: <200209082049.g88KnOV3001602@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020908143348.00cd58a0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <005601c255d1$40608b70$140010ac@AngelaFLazear> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 14:35:37 -0700 Status: RO >I've seen some custom garments with a similar shape, made in a fancier >brocade or damask and paired with a matching skirt and maybe vestigial >sleeves, worn as formal wear. Have been looking for a commercial pattern, >but so far, no luck. Seems you could start with a commercial corset pattern, and just drape the rest. The non-corset part doesn't seem especially fitted, and I seem to recall it all looking like squares/rectangles to me. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 8 18:57:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25691 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 18:57:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g88Mv1tj021981; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 16:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g88Mv0c00343; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 16:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12002.mail.yahoo.com (web12002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.210]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g88Mu0c29222 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 16:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020908225600.16354.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.207] by web12002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 15:56:00 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] undyeing linen Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 15:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Hello Mel, I used Rit dye remover following the package directions for using the washing machine. The linen/rayon blend gave up enough of it's color to be a very pretty pale blue but the linen is still it's original yellow. Should I have used more dye remover or hot water instead of warm? I could use the linen as is ( still yellow) for a corset linig but I was hoping to figure out how to do the undyeing before I tried it on the 10 yds of 100% raw silk which is a bright raspberry pink. Also, could I use duck for the middle layer of a corset. I don't think cotton is that common for the Elizabethan timeframe but I don't know how to stiffen linen. Could I use the linen it's original yellow for a corset? Thanks for all the help from the list. Normally my reproduction work is for the 1800's so I feel I'm way out of my depth on this project. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 8 21:40:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26356 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 21:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g891d1tj006259; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 19:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g891d0c16206; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 19:39:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g891c0c15149 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 19:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11618 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 20:41:19 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Going out of business sale ... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 20:41:19 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO ... at Victoria Louise, an online merchant specializing mostly in supplies for 19th-century repro costuming. Still, some of the fabrics, notions, and trims may prove useful to those doing other periods, too. Lots of hard-to-find stuff here, including millinery supplies. Not my period, so I can't speak for the value of the patterns, but there are lots of them. www.victorialouise.com --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 02:14:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03378 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 02:14:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g896E5tj020477; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 00:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g896E1E26809; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 00:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g896DGE26543 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 00:13:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.98.161]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AKZ79745; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:11:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <005901c257c8$6dc68e40$a1624ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20020908225600.16354.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] undyeing linen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:16:25 +0100 Status: RO >I used Rit dye remover following the package directions for using the washing machine. The linen/rayon blend gave up enough of it's color to be a very pretty pale blue but the linen is still it's original yellow. I don't know Rit, is is a dye remover or a whitener after you have had a bleed ? Most commercial dye removers as a bit rough to use in the home & certainly not in the washing ,machine What colour was the fabric to start with ? If is is dark it may be it was never white (if that is what you are hoping for) to start with. You could at this stage overdye to most colours sucessfully which would be better for the fabric than stripping it. >Should I have used more dye remover or hot water instead of warm? I wouldn't have thought so but hard to say as I don't know the chemoical we stripped warn or cold never hot. >I could use the linen as is ( still yellow) for a corset linig but I was hoping to figure out how to do the undyeing before I tried it on the 10 yds of 100% raw silk which is a bright raspberry pink. Ah ! Don't make the mistake of thinking once you strip one , the method will work on anything it will depend on what it was dyed with the substrate etc. Generally when I was dyeing commercially we knew what & how a fabric was dyed which gives you a better chance. Silk will be tricky to strip, in that it will upset the fabric more than the more robust cellulosics. I can't recommend stripping as a regular practice (for the fabrics sake anyhow !) > Also, could I use duck for the middle layer of a corset. I don't think cotton is that common for the Elizabethan timeframe but I don't know how to stiffen linen. Could I use the linen it's original yellow for a corset? This is Elizabethen talk & therefore not something I can help you on sorry Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 04:27:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17606 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 04:27:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g898Qgtj009801; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 02:26:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g898QfE17065; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 02:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g898MsE12936 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 02:22:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB2E70101E4; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 03:26:22 -0500 Message-ID: <025c01c257da$49e003a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] New Fun Class Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 04:24:16 -0400 Status: RO Okay for those of you who haven't made a costume for the Ball this year <> we might have a solution, so you don't have to show up at the Ball in last year's costume. Stephen Bergdahl has decided to teach a Halloween costume class at the Costume Classroom www.costumeclassroom.com . Stephen said he has been wanting to teach this class for years. He is a big Halloween fan since he was born Oct. 28, 19??. His class is called "Halloween Costumes for the Non-Sewer, or For the Sewer with no time." In four lessons starting Sept. 23, Stephen is going to teach how to make 18 female and 14 men different Halloween costumes. For a listing of the costumes, look at the class description. All and all, he is keeping a budget of time and $$$ in mind for the costumes. This class is part of our Halloween series so after Sept. 23, you can enter this class anytime until Oct. 15 (for those really running out of time). The class closes on Oct. 31. Stephen will hold your costuming hand until Halloween Day. So there, you don't have an excuse... you can still be in the Ball if you send me photos by that date! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 08:49:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18691 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:49:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89Cn2tj011494; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 06:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Cn0g28050; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 06:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Cm7g26383 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 06:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14066 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:51:28 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Fun Class In-Reply-To: <025c01c257da$49e003a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:51:28 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Okay for those of you who haven't made a costume for the Ball this year > <> ...this year I sewed for other people, not myself... I had a nice pic in last year. Surely I can use that as a club with which to beat other people into participation? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 09:22:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18787 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:22:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89DLPtj000152; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89DB6g14170; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89DAog13579 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:10:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from momdad (dialup-63.208.207.9.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [63.208.207.9]) by pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g89DAla103574 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:10:48 -0400 Message-ID: <004501c25802$8e97ff20$09cfd03f@momdad> From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" To: References: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> <001f01c255e7$b7010960$55513b41@momdad> <000c01c2576b$d2cc0b60$665183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:12:17 -0400 Status: RO Well, it was worth a try. There is a child's gown in Patterns of Fashion that has the velvet cut in a kind of lattice pattern, and that was what I was hoping to copy. I may just have to experiment when I get the time. ;-) Moira > May I suggest that the method used to embellish this cape was one of > applique (with satin) that has been outlined and beaded with black "jet". I > have several examples of this kind of ornamentation on similar garments in > my collection..Among velvets that feature "burnout", non are any earlier > than about 1919. This jacket/cape dates 1888-1893. Kathleen M. > Message ----- > From: "HEATHER A CUTLER" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:55 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] E-bay "Victorian Velvet Mantle/Jacket" > > > > I was wondering.... if I understand correctly, the velvet was cut, and > then > > the area embroidered to accent. Would this be how the cut velvet would > have > > been done in, say, the 16th century? There is a little girl's gown in > > Patterns of Fashion that my daughter has begged for for years, and I would > > love to be able to try duplicating the pattern in the velvet, but didn't > > know how. > > Moira > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2136734327 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 09:47:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19072 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:47:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89Dkwtj009157; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:46:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Dkug07538; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:46:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12008.mail.yahoo.com (web12008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.216]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g89DgOg05826 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:42:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020909134223.9674.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.241] by web12008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 06:42:23 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] smock patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 06:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Reading through the cut construction and ornamentation article linked through the Elizabethan costume page I see an Janet Arnold article in the bibliography written or published in 1977 in a journal in a language I don't read. Does anyone have this article and is there any way I can get a copy from you? I've always found Ms Arnold's diagrams to be followable so it wouldn't matter if I can't read the text. Also, as I was flipping through my Costume in Detail from the V&A looking at shifts and shirts I found several. Has anyone patterned these yet? The closeups of the embroidery are great but I'd like to get as many smock patterns as possible so I can choose which one I'm going to make and embroider. (I quilt too so the thought of spending months or years on something doesn't faze me. I've got an embroidery for a wall hanging that I only work on on vacations or when I stay at my grandmother's house.) Thanks everyone. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 10:03:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19221 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89E2jtj010142; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:02:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89E2ig13395; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Dwgg11843 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-66-212.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.66.212] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17oP3n-0000h8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 14:58:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c25809$6cf76de0$d4427ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> <001f01c255e7$b7010960$55513b41@momdad> <000c01c2576b$d2cc0b60$665183d1@rmitchellras> <004501c25802$8e97ff20$09cfd03f@momdad> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:01:35 +0100 Status: RO Moira wrote: > Well, it was worth a try. There is a child's gown in Patterns of Fashion > that has the velvet cut in a kind of lattice pattern, and that was what I > was hoping to copy. I may just have to experiment when I get the time. ;-) There were a number of ways of achieving this look back in the Renaissance period, but unfortunately those skills have long been lost. I would think that "burn-out" using chemicals and a silk backed velvet is the closest you are going to get nowadays. It is beautiful, isn't it! best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 10:17:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19374 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:17:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89EGitj010880; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89EGhg18926; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89EC8g17110 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew ([213.78.114.112]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALA30702; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:10:28 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <009001c2580b$306e1340$70724ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008D_01C25813.9136B620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Subject: [h-cost] Austrian, Spanish, and Irish late 19th C Costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:14:18 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C25813.9136B620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm hoping there is somebody (or bodies) on this list who are natives to = the above and know of costume books or magazine where I might find ref = to these, particularly fashionable clothes with traditional influence ? = But fashion plates & studies also needed Please ??? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. Tel: +44 116 260 4442=20 Fax: +44 116 260 1396=20 ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C25813.9136B620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm hoping there is somebody (or = bodies) on this=20 list who are natives to the above and know of costume books or magazine = where I=20 might find ref to these, particularly fashionable clothes with = traditional=20 influence ? But fashion plates & studies also needed
 
Please ???
 
Mel
 
This e-mail, and any attachment, is=20 confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from = your=20 system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify = me=20 immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views = which=20 are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.
Tel: = +44 116=20 260 4442
Fax:  +44 116 260 1396
------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C25813.9136B620-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 12:33:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21649 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:33:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89GW6tj022715; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:32:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89GW4g07054; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89GRqg04207 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp169.directcon.net [206.170.184.169]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g89GRbEs024319; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:27:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020909092540.012c8360@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... In-Reply-To: References: <002301c255ca$fa2b6d60$3d4d063e@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 09:25:40 -0700 Status: RO > > >> But at least you haven't come across this "costume" out there: see >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=955026444 > Great minds think alike! Thnis weekend, I gave an address tracing the history and development of the stylized "wench" costume, and I used this ebay listing as an example of how bad it's gotten. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 17:33:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28810 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:33:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89LYWtj018430; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89LYQ028660; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:34:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89I1n004494 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:01:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BBA3205A5 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip106.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.106]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C6E020576 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02d301c2582a$ec2ba830$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Fun Class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:01:23 -0400 Status: RO When is the deadline, Penny? I'm working on a black brocade Elizabethan with burgundy sleeves and forepart. ( I need something new for Coronation!) Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "h-costume" Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Fun Class > > On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: > > > Okay for those of you who haven't made a costume for the Ball this year > > <> > > ...this year I sewed for other people, not myself... > > I had a nice pic in last year. Surely I can use that as a club with which > to beat other people into participation? > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 17:35:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28880 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:35:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89LbAtj018736; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:37:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Lb9000706; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14507.mail.yahoo.com (web14507.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.70]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g89Jpi023452 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 13:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020909195144.28602.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.159.216] by web14507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 12:51:44 PDT From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020909092540.012c8360@pop.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO and in addition to these, the Simplicity pattern's "petal skirt" for Ren Faire Costumes. *twitch* (even worse, I have someone who WANTS one-in shades of purple, which only reminds me of one of the costumes Marie Osmond used to wear on the "Donny and Marie Show". I can't decide which is worse, the costume idea itself, or that I remember something like it on a 70's show.) Angharat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 17:35:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28891 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:35:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89LbStj018782; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89LbR000931; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:37:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12001.mail.yahoo.com (web12001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g89KIJ010038 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:18:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020909201818.83694.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.228] by web12001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 13:18:18 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] undyeing linen Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 13:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Mel Rit is a home dye for doing things like tie-dye. If you do it on the stove you can overdye almost anything black and I've used it in the washing machine to dye SCA costumes ( long story ). The dye remover box claims it will remove dye from most articles, no matter what the fiber content and is safe for any fabric on which you can use a non-chlorine bleach. It also claims to remove organic based food stains from clothes that are already white. It's an all-in-one package with no additional mordants and it does fade some after fifteen or twenty washings if you don't use the boil on the stove method for the original dye bath. It's safe for the home dyer which is probably why I'm having trouble with the linen, as most people would be using poly/cotton or all cotton t-shirts for this dye. Is there someplace I can get real professional dyes and removers? I know some of my quilter friends do their own hand dyeing but they're using 100% cotton, procion dyes and trying for a mottled appearance. I can always use the linen as is, a pale yellow and a very pale blue as linings or corset linings for other eras. The piece of linen/silk I've been eyeing is already white so if this undyeing isn't going to work or be unsafe for the do-it-at-home I'll just know to buy white for the undergarments. Could I overdye the silk with a commercial dye? One piece is a bright raspberry pink and the other is a dull terracotta (coral?)? Thanks Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 17:36:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28915 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:36:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89Lbstj018883; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:37:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Lbr001246; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:37:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89LFU016417 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:15:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 39jz301 (dhcp065-024-177-132.columbus.rr.com [65.24.177.132]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g89LFTe02533 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c101c25846$6acbeea0$84b11841@columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: References: <002301c255ca$fa2b6d60$3d4d063e@dan> <3.0.6.32.20020909092540.012c8360@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:18:10 -0400 Status: RO Greetings-- > Great minds think alike! Thnis weekend, I gave an address tracing the > history and development of the stylized "wench" costume, and I used this > ebay listing as an example of how bad it's gotten. It was funny, sitting in Margo's talk, and sort of dreading, as she showed progressively worse wench outfits, whether she'd mention THAT one. Great talk, btw. Susan (aka Nicolaa) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 17:36:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28919 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:36:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89Lc3tj018907; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Lc2001393; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcprox.methodist.edu (mail.methodist.edu [204.84.112.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89LSO024662 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mcprox.methodist.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:25:32 -0400 Received: from 36kls01feswe (36kls01feswe.methodist.edu [10.10.50.138]) by mcprox.methodist.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id SKD9N6SF; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:25:27 -0400 From: Rebecca Wendelken To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <005101c25847$cc66b2c0$8a320a0a@methodist.edu> References: <20020909163203.4982.62550.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Re: undyeing linen Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:28:11 -0400 Status: RO Interesting! I just joined and am in the middle of trying to undye some pale pink linen, or rather bleach it. So far -- chlorine bleach does not work. I tried it diluted and then in a fit tried full strength for five minutes. No change. The only time I got a visable lightening was when I soaked the linen for 24 hours in a chlorine bleach solution. This is not recommended -- I now have a bag full of linen paper raw materials. I am also trying sun bleaching (exposing it in a window), oxygen bleach, and hydrogen peroxide. I'll let you know how it works. I have spilt bleach on an orange linen in the past and it is now spotted with white. It all depends on (a) the linen and (b) the original dye. These things tend to work great when you don't want them to! I have tried overdying the linen with tea and that kills the pink, but leaves it beige. On the silk, I overdyed an Indian HOT pink sari and it worked well. I used Rit. Rebecca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 17:46:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29228 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:46:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89Lm2tj019777; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Lm0007988; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Llb007709 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:47:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7CA2AF0218; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 16:51:06 -0500 Message-ID: <00e501c2584a$c5d21960$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <02d301c2582a$ec2ba830$6a604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Fun Class X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:49:28 -0400 Status: RO The last day for the ball is Nov. 10. But if we start receiving excessive amounts near the end, I hold the images over for the next year. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 17:57:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29641 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:57:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89Lx3tj020619; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Lx1014898; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from frankenstein.nwlink.com (pop.nwlink.com [209.20.130.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89Lvv014225 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asuscoh (ip157.usw19.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.235.157]) by frankenstein.nwlink.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g89LvVe66391 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:57:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scourney@nwlink.com) Message-ID: <007001c2584b$361480a0$9debcacf@nwlink.com> From: "Susan" To: References: <20020909195144.28602.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:52:36 -0700 Status: RO Oh but I wanna make that skirt and even bought the pattern to do so. However I am not planning on wearing it to a medieval event as a period outfit, but to cons and various gothy parties I go to. Susan > > > and in addition to these, the Simplicity pattern's > "petal skirt" for Ren Faire Costumes. > > *twitch* > > (even worse, I have someone who WANTS one-in shades of > purple, which only reminds me of one of the costumes > Marie Osmond used to wear on the "Donny and Marie > Show". I can't decide which is worse, the costume > idea itself, or that I remember something like it on a > 70's show.) > > Angharat > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 19:15:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31623 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:15:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g89NF7tj001987; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89NF5007988; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from frankenstein.nwlink.com (pop.nwlink.com [209.20.130.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g89NEG007315 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:14:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asuscoh (ip157.usw19.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.235.157]) by frankenstein.nwlink.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g89LvVe66391 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:57:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scourney@nwlink.com) Message-ID: <007001c2584b$361480a0$9debcacf@nwlink.com> From: "Susan" To: References: <20020909195144.28602.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] And you thought Renfaires were bad... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:52:36 -0700 Status: RO Oh but I wanna make that skirt and even bought the pattern to do so. However I am not planning on wearing it to a medieval event as a period outfit, but to cons and various gothy parties I go to. Susan > > > and in addition to these, the Simplicity pattern's > "petal skirt" for Ren Faire Costumes. > > *twitch* > > (even worse, I have someone who WANTS one-in shades of > purple, which only reminds me of one of the costumes > Marie Osmond used to wear on the "Donny and Marie > Show". I can't decide which is worse, the costume > idea itself, or that I remember something like it on a > 70's show.) > > Angharat > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 23:16:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01756 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:16:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8A3I4tj005390; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:18:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A3I0024701; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A3HL024444 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homebuilt (dialup-63.208.31.204.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [63.208.31.204]) by pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g8A3HKF144080 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:17:20 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c258dd$f3ece300$cc1fd03f@homebuilt> From: "Heather Cutler" To: References: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> <001f01c255e7$b7010960$55513b41@momdad> <000c01c2576b$d2cc0b60$665183d1@rmitchellras> <004501c25802$8e97ff20$09cfd03f@momdad> <000801c25809$6cf76de0$d4427ad5@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:23:00 -0400 Status: RO It is very beautiful. Maybe I'll try the burnout method on a small piece and see if I can get it right. ;-) Moira > > There were a number of ways of achieving this look back in the > Renaissance period, but unfortunately those skills have long been > lost. I would think that "burn-out" using chemicals and a silk backed > velvet is the closest you are going to get nowadays. It is beautiful, > isn't it! > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Sep 9 23:53:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01854 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:53:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8A3sjtj009656; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:54:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A3sh013913; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:54:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A3o8011279 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:50:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.184.182.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.184.182]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17oc2Q-0000IT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 23:50:07 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] A patron saint of dyeing accidents? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:20:52 -0700 Status: RO Thought this might amuse people! September 9th is the feast day of (among others): >St. Ciaran of Clonmacnoise (d. c. 545) > >The son of a Connacht (Ireland) >carpenter, Ciaran showed his generous spirit and miraculous powers at an >early age (at least if later hagiographers are to be believed, he once >"helped" his fostermother with her dyeing and turned *everything* blue, >including the cat (!)). > >Ciaran studied under Finnian of Clonard, Enda, and >then Senan. He and several companions then settled at Conmacnoise (Co. >Meath). But Ciaran died young, at the suspiciously Christ-like age of >33---perhaps at his own prayer, perhaps because the other saints of Ireland >were jealous of his holiness and prayed against him, or perhaps more >prosaically of the plague. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 02:18:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10714 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:18:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8A6K2tj027044; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A6K0026891; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A6JD026610 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:19:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-100-125.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.100.125]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AKX55740; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:17:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <009601c25892$6d3737c0$7d644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20020909201818.83694.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] undyeing linen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:20:31 +0100 Status: RO >Rit is a home dye for doing things like tie-dye. I know vaguely what it is but not what chemicals are in it :) Which is why I can't be specific about it, if you know what I mean ! >The dye remover box claims it will remove dye from most articles, no matter what the fiber content and is safe for any fabric on which you can use a non-chlorine bleach. Generally a well applied dye is hjard to remove, and whilst safe I'm sure, the dye properties & fabric properties are likely to be altered in the result, not drastically, but the more you do it the worse it is likely to get. It also claims to remove organic based food stains from clothes that are already white. It's an all-in-one package with no additional mordants and it does fade some after fifteen or twenty washings if you don't use the boil on the stove method for the original dye bath. I'm a bit lost here the remover or the dye ? I'd guess it is a direct type possibily then ? >It's safe for the home dyer which is probably why I'm having trouble with the linen, as most people would be using poly/cotton or all cotton t-shirts for this dye. Is there someplace I can get real professional dyes and removers? I'm assuming you are in the States ? So I couldn't suggest anywhere and to be honest those chemicals have no place in the home really > I know some of my quilter friends do their own hand dyeing but they're using 100% cotton, procion dyes and trying for a mottled appearance. Procions should dye linen, & should dye mottled > I can always use the linen as is, a pale yellow and a very pale blue as linings or corset linings for other eras. The piece of linen/silk I've been eyeing is already white so if this undyeing isn't going to work or be unsafe for the do-it-at-home I'll just know to buy white for the undergarments. I'm still not really sure what you are trying to achieve (sorry I might have missed it) white to use as white or a base to redye ? > Could I overdye the silk with a commercial dye? Yes depending on what colour you were after. Mel One piece is a bright raspberry pink and the other is a dull terracotta (coral?)? Thanks This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 05:32:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25247 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:32:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8A9Y4tj021003; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A9Y1023565; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A9XM023213 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:33:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KMBZGR94G000IMJY@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:33:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KMBZF2WLX000IDB4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:31:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:29:31 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:29:14 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:29:14 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball (New Fun Class) In-reply-to: <20020909163203.4982.62550.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8BFEE26AAE@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:29:13 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > Okay for those of you who haven't made a costume for the Ball this > > year <> > > ...this year I sewed for other people, not myself... > > I had a nice pic in last year. Surely I can use that as a club with > which to beat other people into participation? And I have a picture to send so I can attend this year!.... Now I just need to get the damn scanner to cooperate! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 05:39:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25278 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:39:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8A9f2tj021657; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A9f1026901; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A9en026794 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:40:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KMBZIQXJGW00IKQ8@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:40:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KMBZH0FTKQ00IDB4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:33:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:31:06 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:30:33 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:30:26 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap In-reply-to: <20020909163203.4982.62550.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8C04822546@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:30:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Well, it was worth a try. There is a child's gown in Patterns of > Fashion that has the velvet cut in a kind of lattice pattern, and that > was what I was hoping to copy. I may just have to experiment when I > get the time. ;-) Moira Wasn't the fabric *made* liek that, by the weavers, rather than having that done to it afterwards? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 05:45:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25292 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:45:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8A9l1tj022092; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A9l0029381; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8A9kT029237 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id DAA02487 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:07:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200209101007.DAA02487@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Non-historical costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Just finally got the photos from ConJose (WorldCon 2002) up. The web page _will_ look better later. But at least the photos are there now. These costumes were an example of flea market/thriftstore/dumpster diving combined with an awful lot of flashing LEDs. Picture the mad scientist "inventing" things in his basement and you've got the idea. http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/AtomicJackalope.html Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 07:50:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25814 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:50:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8ABqFtj004483; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:52:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ABqE028800; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ABpu028535 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [62.6.103.133] (helo=dan) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17ojYg-00056b-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 12:51:54 +0100 Message-ID: <003401c258c0$e1c5d8c0$4e3d7ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <8C04822546@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 12:54:22 +0100 Status: RO Teddy wrote, about Rennaissance velvets: > Wasn't the fabric *made* liek that, by the weavers, rather than > having that done to it afterwards? No, I think the Renaissance velvets Moira is interested in are the cisele and, possibly, ferronerie. Both involved cutting the pile, to varying depths, to obtain this most beautiful of fabrics. Eleanora of Toledo's dress in Bronzino's portrait is of cisele velvet, probably Genoese. This was a hugely skilful process, long-lost. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 09:04:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26091 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:04:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8AD62tj012354; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AD60006834; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AD5P006648 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.52.146.76.dlls.grid.net ([63.52.146.76] helo=earthlink.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17okho-0005Tt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 06:05:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3D7DEF94.8020207@earthlink.net> From: Magdalena User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] smock patterns References: <20020909134223.9674.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:11:48 -0500 Status: RO Cascio Michael wrote: >Reading through the cut construction and ornamentation >article linked through the Elizabethan costume page I >see an Janet Arnold article in the bibliography >written or published in 1977 in a journal in a >language I don't read. > Cassandra, The journal is a German costuming journal, but the article is in English. If you snag the citation from the bibliography and take it to your local library, they can get it for you through inter library loan (ILL). I'm in the midst of making a pattern for myself of the high necked Schorleyker smock - based on the line drawing of it in the FiD and what I know of men's shirts. When I'm happy with the results, I'll post the instructions up on my site. I'm hoping to go to the V&A next year to see the smocks in Fashion in Detail, particularly the one with the interlace pattern enclosing flowers. If I can get permission to publish the pattern on the web, I will do so. If you are looking for similar embroidery patterns, look for A Schole-House for the Needle by Schorleyker. Lacis and Hedgehog Handworks both carry it, I think. I'm currently embroidering a redwork smock for myself with patterns from it, and they work up well. -Magdalena who is darned pleased to that somebody read her page > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 11:53:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32526 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:53:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8AFt7tj005884; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AFt3005122; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepA.post.tele.dk (fepA.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.143]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AFsE004394 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fepK.im.tele.dk ([195.41.46.227]) by fepA.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020910155413.BAZY5641.fepA.post.tele.dk@fepK.im.tele.dk> for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:54:13 +0200 From: drewscph@post12.tele.dk To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8C04822546@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <003401c258c0$e1c5d8c0$4e3d7ad5@dan> X-Mailer: Opasia webmail (version opasia/3.2.4) X-Originating-IP: 195.215.190.236 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: <20020910155413.BAZY5641.fepA.post.tele.dk@fepK.im.tele.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g8AFsE004394 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:54:13 +0200 Status: RO Hi Stevie, nice to hear from you again. I have just had a lot of problems because i have a new computer and getting started again and lock on to the internet and get your mailprogram to work again WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes it must have ben a very longlasting project. At Amalienborg Palace here in Copenhagen, they have just had some new wowen "wallpapers" made up specially from old 18th century ones. It is patterns made in velvet on silk background. They are wowen in the hands and i think the lady told me that the weawers could make 30 cm. a day. Bjarne "Stevie Gamble" wrote: > Teddy wrote, about Rennaissance velvets: > > > Wasn't the fabric *made* liek that, by the weavers, rather > than > > having that done to it afterwards? > > No, I think the Renaissance velvets Moira is interested in > are the > cisele and, possibly, ferronerie. Both involved cutting the > pile, to > varying depths, to obtain this most beautiful of fabrics. > Eleanora of > Toledo's dress in Bronzino's portrait is of cisele velvet, > probably > Genoese. This was a hugely skilful process, long-lost. > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 16:36:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02314 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:36:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8AKc7tj021326; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:38:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AKc1L01391; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AKbML00501 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:37:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H28001NHP9QOP@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:37:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: [h-cost] Non-historical costume To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D7E5683.4000408@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:30:59 -0500 Status: RO Lee, Those are a riot... They look very similar to the first costumes I made for me and my husband 26 years ago for our first Halloween party. We went as Aliens, I was Luna, he was Tik.... And of course, we introduced ourselves as the LunaTiks from the Moon. Won first place amongst a bunch of drunks. :D -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 17:31:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02779 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:31:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8ALX3tj029885; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ALX0w18069; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.95]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ALWDw17393 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:32:14 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Medieval Woman calendar not published this year? Thread-Index: AcJZEVpmB5Rim1eZSXGs3xTZSJwLgw== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g8ALWDw17393 Subject: [h-cost] Medieval Woman calendar not published this year? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:30:58 -0700 Status: RO I just heard on another list that Workman Publishing will not be publishing The Medieval Woman calendar this year. Does anyone know if another publisher has picked it up? Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 18:56:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03120 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:56:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8AMw8QG011459; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AMw1w23704; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AMvrw23627 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:57:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id QAA06505 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:18:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200209102318.QAA06505@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-historical costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO "Linda J. Thompson" wrote: > > Lee, > Those are a riot... They look very similar to the first costumes I made for me and my > husband 26 years ago for our first Halloween party. We went as Aliens, I was Luna, he was > Tik.... And of course, we introduced ourselves as the LunaTiks from the Moon. Won first > place amongst a bunch of drunks. :D I'm especially proud of that collander-helmet. We swiped the harness from a hardhat and wired it inside. The thing's lopsided because I didn't get to add the battery pack that was supposed to power some more ELwire and would have balanced out the one running the huge red LEDs. _Now_ he wants me to add cadillac fins to the collander handles. ;} I knew I'd done a good job when Kelly Freas (did a lot of the conceptual art for Star Trek) came up and told us how great it looked. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 19:01:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03170 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:01:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8AN33QG012382; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AN32w27493; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AN2bw26766 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:02:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com ([24.245.41.124]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020910230232.TMMS10266.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@default.attbi.com> for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:02:32 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20020910180132.00a97eb0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Woman calendar not published this year? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:02:09 -0500 Status: RO I just heard myself and emailed them asking them not to discontinue it. Maybe we should inundate them with requests? Cheers, Danielle At 02:30 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I just heard on another list that Workman Publishing will not be >publishing The Medieval Woman calendar this year. Does anyone know if >another publisher has picked it up? > >Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 19:02:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03184 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:02:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8AN42QG012452; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AN41w27993; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8AN3Xw27774 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:03:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-44-132.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.132]) by pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g8AN3Wa505118 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:03:32 -0400 Message-ID: <003601c2591e$6f06c200$842caf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> <001f01c255e7$b7010960$55513b41@momdad> <000c01c2576b$d2cc0b60$665183d1@rmitchellras> <004501c25802$8e97ff20$09cfd03f@momdad> <000801c25809$6cf76de0$d4427ad5@dan> <000801c258dd$f3ece300$cc1fd03f@homebuilt> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:04:35 -0700 Status: RO If you do, please pass along instructions. Even trial and error that you are not entirely happy with could be useful to the list. I am DYING to try some new techniques on some velvets I bought for Italian Renn pieces. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "O! Swear not by the moon, the inconstant moon, That monthly changes in her circled orb, Lest that thy love prove likewise variable." Romeo & Juliet, II, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Cutler" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap > It is very beautiful. Maybe I'll try the burnout method on a small piece > and see if I can get it right. ;-) > Moira > > > > > > There were a number of ways of achieving this look back in the > > Renaissance period, but unfortunately those skills have long been > > lost. I would think that "burn-out" using chemicals and a silk backed > > velvet is the closest you are going to get nowadays. It is beautiful, > > isn't it! > > > > best wishes > > Stevie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 19:17:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03264 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:17:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8ANJ2QG014913; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ANJ1w10172; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail013.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail013.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.171]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ANIuw10056 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from qwerty.optusnet.com.au (c16828.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au [211.28.151.194]) by mail013.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g8ANIng13119 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:18:49 +1000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020911091039.0248f890@210.49.20.169> X-Sender: koidgath@210.49.20.169 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sharon Nevin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Woman calendar not published this year? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020910180132.00a97eb0@mail.attbi.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:11:41 +1000 Status: RO I think inundate them with requests but it maybe to late for this year? Sharon >I just heard myself and emailed them asking them not to discontinue >it. Maybe we should inundate them with requests? > >Cheers, >Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 20:53:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04565 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:53:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B0t4QG028075; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B0t2w12880; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8B0s7w12470 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:54:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020911005407.17945.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:54:07 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <8C04822546@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:54:07 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Teddy wrote: > > > Well, it was worth a try. There is a child's gown > in Patterns of > > Fashion that has the velvet cut in a kind of > lattice pattern, and that > > was what I was hoping to copy. I may just have to > experiment when I > > get the time. ;-) Moira > > Wasn't the fabric *made* liek that, by the weavers, > rather than > having that done to it afterwards? Yes - on that particular gown voided cut velvet is used, and voiding is done during the weaving of the velvet. Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Now send & receive IMs on your mobile via SMS _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 21:31:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04792 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:31:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B1X2QG003274; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B1X0w06981; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8B1Wjw06815 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020911013245.24821.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:32:45 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <003401c258c0$e1c5d8c0$4e3d7ad5@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:32:45 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Teddy wrote, about Rennaissance velvets: > > > Wasn't the fabric *made* liek that, by the > weavers, rather than > > having that done to it afterwards? > > No, I think the Renaissance velvets Moira is > interested in are the > cisele and, possibly, ferronerie. Both involved > cutting the pile, to > varying depths, to obtain this most beautiful of > fabrics. According to my source, "cisele" refers to the pattern obtained during weaving, in this case patterns in cut and uncut pile - not voided areas. The one mentioned in PoF is voided velvet, which is obtained during the weaving also, but has areas with satin ground (non-pile). "Ferronnerie" refers to a spefic type of pattern, not a type of weaving process. Ferronnerie indicates a wrought iron look in the pattern. Most of these appear to be pile-on-pile velvet. > Eleanora of > Toledo's dress in Bronzino's portrait is of cisele > velvet, probably > Genoese. According to my source it is described as a "cut voided velvet with brocading and boucle wefts in gold and silver (riccio sopra riccio velvet)". These velvets brocaded with gold or silver were also known as "allucciolato" and "a riccio d'oro". The pattern is described as arabesqued. As to the source of the fabric, it is given as Florence. Considering that Eleonora had two master weavers installed at the Palazzo Vecchio "at her service", it was likely to have been specially woven for her. > This was a hugely skilful process, long lost. The processes have not been been completely lost, but they are extremely expensive to do. Mostly they are hand done. Take Luigi Bevilaqua of Venice: "The main boast of the company is that range of fabrics still hand-produced on original eighteenth/nineteenth-century looms. Now as then, all the phases of manufacture are manual - from the creation of the perforated cartoons that reproduce the exclusive fabric designs, to the preparation of the weft and the organisation of the individual threads." They are "The sole Italian producer of soprarizzo velvet". Out of the reach of most of us, but well worth a look. :) ===== Lady Bella Lucia da Verona Innilgard, Lochac The Realm of Venus http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona Owner, Courtesan E-mail Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Now send & receive IMs on your mobile via SMS _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 21:53:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04894 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:53:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B1t2QG006258; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B1t1w20119; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12002.mail.yahoo.com (web12002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.210]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8B1sEw19841 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020911015414.19753.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.214] by web12002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:54:14 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] more undyeing linen Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Me again. I was trying to get enough color out of the linen so I could overdye it with the hope of having some idea of what color I would get in the end. That and the experimentation of learning how to do undyeing. I'm an information junkie and like to know how to do things just for the sake knowing. I can butcher a deer, rewire a house, cook over an open fire without burning anyone, etc. What color is okay for Elizabethan corsets? I really liked the cut construction and ornamentation article. It was exactly the info I was looking for so I'm glad you posted it. Are you any further along on the rest of the links? Any information on the appropriate drawn thread work for joining lengths of linen to make a long enough piece for a shift? As the pale blue linen is the wrong color for a shift I need to piece some lengths together and then decorate the seams. Cassandra (who will eventually have her teen-ager teach her to cut and paste so I can reply with inserts from the post I'm replying to) __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Sep 10 22:30:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05011 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 22:30:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B2W1QG011533; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B2W0w12942; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B2V2w12512 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17oxHR-0007g2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:31:01 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <002501c25939$c3a87400$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <20020909201818.83694.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] undyeing linen-and re-dyeing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:20:12 -0700 Status: RO ** Is there someplace I can get real **professional dyes and removers? I know some of my **quilter friends do their own hand dyeing but they're **using 100% cotton, procion dyes and trying for a **mottled appearance. Have you tried http://www.dharmatrading.com/ I am not sure where you are (US or UK?) They have lots of different dyes and dye removal chemicals. I have used Dharma's Dyehouse Color Remover http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1535-AA.shtml with varying success on both silk and linen. I have overdyed both with procion with great success (no streaking or mottles) with and without trying to remove color-you just have to understand that the color charts you look at for dyes are usually representative of a particular fabric type and may be different if you change fabrics. You also have to be willing to use some fabric for testing or take the risk that it may not be what you want-I just love to fiddle with it! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 01:55:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05781 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B5v2QG009535; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B5v0w16017; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B5uhw15818 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-103-111.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.103.111]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AKY34090; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:54:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <030601c25958$751500a0$8b624ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20020911015414.19753.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] more undyeing linen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:59:20 +0100 Status: RO >I was trying to get enough color out of the linen so I could overdye it with the hope of having some idea of what color I would get in the end. Well pale brown is generally the best you'll get I think si I'd go for overdye at this stage. > That and the experimentation of learning how to do undyeing. For info the term is stripping :) >What color is okay for Elizabethan corsets? For that you need somebody else :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 03:11:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26470 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:11:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B7D1QG019264; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B7D0w28316; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B7Cgw28152 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ADC0B77026E; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:16:16 -0500 Message-ID: <015a01c25962$e236bb60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <8BFEE26AAE@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball (New Fun Class) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:14:35 -0400 Status: RO Teddy, Do your drug stores have scanners. Ours does. YIPPEE!!! I am so glad you are coming to the online ball. Are we going to recognize you? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 03:18:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04758 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:18:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B7K4QG020142; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B7K1w02420; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.162]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B7Jpw02321 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:19:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from qwerty.optusnet.com.au (c16828.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au [211.28.151.194]) by mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g8B7Jji15518 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:19:45 +1000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020911170143.00a4c9d0@210.49.20.169> X-Sender: koidgath@210.49.20.169 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sharon Nevin In-Reply-To: <20020911013245.24821.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> References: <003401c258c0$e1c5d8c0$4e3d7ad5@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Deliberately Concealed Clothing Site Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:12:35 +1000 Status: RO I was doing a bit of digging around the net on Folklore Magic and came across this site www.concealedgarments.org Its an inventory of some clothing that has been deliberately hidden in buildings. It tells you what has been found, where it currently is. I particularly like the picture of the reigate doublet restored (but I want more detail) http://www.concealedgarments.org/research/case_studies/reigate.html early 17th The y also give an indication of current location Sharon _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 03:21:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09149 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:21:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B7N0QG020550; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B7N0w04107; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail024.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail024.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B7MDw03797 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from qwerty.optusnet.com.au (c16828.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au [211.28.151.194]) by mail024.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g8B7M6K21312 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:22:06 +1000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020911171411.00a024c0@210.49.20.169> X-Sender: koidgath@210.49.20.169 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sharon Nevin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:14:56 +1000 Status: RO Ack. I meant to type replica. in the following "I particularly like the picture of the reigate doublet restored (but I want more detail) http://www.concealedgarments.org/research/case_studies/reigate.html early 17th The y also give an indication of current location" Sorry Sharon _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 03:33:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26360 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:33:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B7Z2QG022158; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B7Z1w10899; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B7Yrw10866 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A2F3F7C027E; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:38:27 -0500 Message-ID: <01a901c25965$fb5c62e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Fun Class X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:36:45 -0400 Status: RO Poor Robin... needs a new dress... doesn't anyone have something in your closet? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 04:01:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28431 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:01:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B832QG026129; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B830w26663; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f42.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B82uw26638 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:02:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:02:51 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:02:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Fun Class Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Sep 2002 08:02:51.0024 (UTC) FILETIME=[9FFAB100:01C25969] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:02:50 -0700 Status: RO >From: "Penny Ladnier" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Fun Class >Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:36:45 -0400 > >Poor Robin... needs a new dress... doesn't anyone have something in your >closet? > >Penny Ladnier I have so much in my closet that the wrought iron canopy of my bed is ALSO 1/2 full of my clothes. But, God forbid I should have to wear "normal" clothes for anything. *grins and giggles* Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 04:35:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28641 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:35:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B8b1QG000322; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B8b0w14696; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f98.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B8aWw14477 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:36:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:36:27 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:36:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] more undye-ed linen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Sep 2002 08:36:27.0058 (UTC) FILETIME=[51A11120:01C2596E] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:36:26 -0700 Status: RO Well, after five boxes of Rit dye remover and a lot of heating back up in the machine, the construction worker orange linen is now a sort of peachy color. All 9.5 yards are in the dryer now about half way dry and it feels sooooooo soft. I was hoping I could make it purple, of course, but it's still a little darker than I had hoped. I'm not sure what would come out. At least now I don't need sunglasses and SPF 50 to be in the same room with all of it. ;} Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 05:51:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28840 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8B9r2QG010263; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B9r0w24241; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8B9qIw23725 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:52:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-78-192.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.78.192] helo=dan) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17p4AS-0003Y6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:52:17 +0100 Message-ID: <003b01c25979$55ff3a20$3f297ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20020911013245.24821.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:54:32 +0100 Status: RO Bella wrote: ----- > According to my source, "cisele" refers to the pattern > obtained during weaving, in this case patterns in cut > and uncut pile - not voided areas. Well, it would be helpful if you could let us know your source. According to my sources, (the one most easily coming to hand at the moment is "Silk", Jaques Anquetil, Flammarion, who devotes 30 pages to Renaissance velvets, pp32-62) "cisele" was obtained by "shearing the pile loops on the fabric warp to different heights(referred to as alto-basso) in order to create a variety of intricately textured patterns. The contrast between the velvety surfaces of the pattern and the matte background of the woven fabric produces shimmering effects in silken shades of red, purple or turquoise blue." (page 37) This not a process carried out during the weaving; it took place after the fabric had been woven, by artisans specialising in this skill, using special shears. The one mentioned > in PoF is voided velvet, which is obtained during the > weaving also, but has areas with satin ground > (non-pile). > "Ferronnerie" refers to a spefic type of pattern, not > a type of weaving process. Ferronnerie indicates a > wrought iron look in the pattern. Most of these appear > to be pile-on-pile velvet. > Well, I don't have POF with me at the moment, hence my reference to Renaissance velvets in general, and the ferronnerie patterns in particular. Again, Anquetil asserts that ferronnerie pattern was achieved by shearing the velvet, see page 37 again. > > > Eleanora of > > Toledo's dress in Bronzino's portrait is of cisele > > velvet, probably > > Genoese. > According to my source it is described as a "cut > voided velvet with brocading and boucle wefts in gold > and silver (riccio sopra riccio velvet)". These > velvets brocaded with gold or silver were also known > as "allucciolato" and "a riccio d'oro". The pattern is > described as arabesqued. As to the source of the > fabric, it is given as Florence. Considering that > Eleonora had two master weavers installed at the > Palazzo Vecchio "at her service", it was likely to > have been specially woven for her. In the absence of your source I can only note that Anquetil records that the finest cisele was created in Venice and Genoa, and that the fabric for Eleanora's dress was probably Genoese (page 48). Florence had its own very specialised silks,primarily gold and silver brocades, but we need to bear in mind that just because a type of fabric was in existence in Venice, or Genoa, it doesn't necessarily mean that the other Italian city-states could also produce it to that standard, or indeed, at all. Trade secrets and skills were guarded with considerable enthusiasm, and the great expansion of silk production in various areas was often when individuals moved, for one reason or another, to new areas. > > > This was a hugely skilful process, long lost. > The processes have not been been completely lost, but > they are extremely expensive to do. Mostly they are > hand done. There is no-one capable of creating cisele velvet today. In order to do so someone is going to have to do a great deal of practising with the cisele shears on silk velvet, and I doubt that any manufacturer is going to want to provide the wherewithal for that:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 06:05:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28886 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:05:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8BA71QG012092; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BA70w02227; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BA66w01625 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KMDEOYM3J400HPPO@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:06:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KMDENY8RO800IIFH@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:59:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:56:32 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:56:10 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:56:07 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap In-reply-to: <20020910155503.5020.41037.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:56:06 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > Wasn't the fabric *made* like that, by the weavers, rather than > > having that done to it afterwards? > > No, I think the Renaissance velvets Moira is interested in are the > cisele and, possibly, ferronerie. Both involved cutting the pile, to > varying depths, to obtain this most beautiful of fabrics. Eleanora of > Toledo's dress in Bronzino's portrait is of cisele velvet, probably > Genoese. This was a hugely skilful process, long-lost. But surely that was doen by the fabric manufacturers/weavers, *not* by the tailors/dressmakers who made the garments from the fabric....??? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 06:22:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28950 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:22:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8BAO0QG014213; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BAO0w11428; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BANYw11265 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:23:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-78-192.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.78.192] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17p4ei-0004xd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:23:32 +0100 Message-ID: <004201c2597d$b3ef8c80$3f297ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:26:30 +0100 Status: RO Teddy wrote: > > > Wasn't the fabric *made* like that, by the weavers, rather than > > > having that done to it afterwards? > > > > No, I think the Renaissance velvets Moira is interested in are the > > cisele and, possibly, ferronerie. Both involved cutting the pile, to > > varying depths, to obtain this most beautiful of fabrics. Eleanora of > > Toledo's dress in Bronzino's portrait is of cisele velvet, probably > > Genoese. This was a hugely skilful process, long-lost. > > But surely that was doen by the fabric manufacturers/weavers, > *not* by the tailors/dressmakers who made the garments from the > fabric....???> Oh, it wasn't done by tailors or dressmakers; perish the thought! Or, for that matter, the weavers. It was the sort of highly specialist skill that took years to achieve, and these were vastly expensive fabrics. I think that there's a parallel with the embroiderers; it's been suggested that Botticelli, alone among Florentine painters, was allowed to design the embroideries shown in Primavera. The guild of embroiderers ruled with an iron hand... best wishes Stevie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 06:58:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29107 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:58:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8BB03QG019019; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BB01w02240; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BAxnw02145 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:59:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KMDGSI4P6O00HR3E@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:59:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-rf-s1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.198.4]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KMDGSE6OVQ00EZD2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:59:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-RF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:57:23 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-RF-S1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:56:53 +1100 Received: from rf-lib-08107 (158.94.198.234) by mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44) with ESMTP; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:56:52 +1100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball (New Fun Class) In-reply-to: <20020911095300.24235.35707.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:56:52 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Hi Penny, > Do your drug stores have scanners. We have our own at home (when I can get far ewnough into the room tot use the computer, it's piled with boxes full of books that will go back on the shelves lining the hallway as soon as we get around to finisheing stripping and repainting the hallway (18 months and counting) and several at work. The problrm is that the ones at work either produce crap/low-res images or just plain refuse to save in a format I can open. > Ours does. YIPPEE!!! I am so glad you are coming to the online > ball. Are we going to recognize you? I shoudl think so.... I't the set of studeo shots I had take, last year, of the 18th century costume that was stolen just before Christmas. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 09:30:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29942 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:30:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8BDW4QG011054; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BDW1w03330; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BDVKw02946 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:31:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30690 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:34:48 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <01a901c25965$fb5c62e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Project plans (was: New Fun Class) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:34:48 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Poor Robin... needs a new dress... doesn't anyone have something in > your closet? I have a list of about five projects ready to go, and I have material (fabric and linings) for all of them EXCEPT the crucial fitted underdress that will be worn with most of them. I cannot make the overdresses till I have the underdress. And for that, I'm waiting for a medium blue worsted. I have navy, I have other colors, but no medium blue, and none in the stores (though I'm working at the store with the best worsted collection in town!). Once I have that, this place will turn into a garment processing plant. On the list is a 1400 sideless surcote of rose wool and (I hope) rabbit fur, a 1420 bag-sleeved houppelande out of a plum-and-red herringbone wool, a red silk 1450 "early" V-necked gown, a black worsted 1480 "late" V-necked gown, maybe a red or teal short-sleeved wool underdress (with pin-on sleeves) to go under the latter depending on what's left in the stash. There's also enough silk, wool, and linen around to do the proper 1200 and 1300 outfits, to follow up the 1100 I have already done (but which needs an underdress too, hmm). But those won't be done before the Ball, sorry! All this planning from someone who typically sews one outfit a year if I'm lucky. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 13:16:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31883 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:16:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8BHH3QG022870; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BHH0w23853; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BHGKw23091 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:16:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32330 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:19:52 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Need wool washing help Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:19:52 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO I've been going through my fabric stash (look for some items for sale soon!) and I am now facing a sizable box of my wool "experiments." These were fabrics I washed, fulled, and/or dyed that didn't come out as well as I'd like. Now, if the wool isn't going to wash up, I'm glad to find that out *before* I make it into a garment. But that does leave me with some sad remains. So, I'm wondering if any of the wool experts on this list have any suggestions on how I might salvage these pieces. The chief problem I have is when the wool seems to be shrinking or pulling unevenly. I'm used to seeing the body of the fabric shrink more than the selvedges (which end up rippling a bit), but the problem comes when the effect seems to happen all over, unevenly. I'm not getting a lot of pilling, and the color is fine. It's just the weave is rippling or pulling irregularly all over. I also sometimes get a rough surface (on worsteds) or a crepey one (on woolens), even when the original was very smooth. Ironing doesn't help. Is there a trick I can use to improve this already-ruined pieces -- a particular washing agent, or a way of washing or drying that would even out the weave/shrinkage/surface? These are usually large pieces -- many yards -- so I can't, say, stretch them out by hand. Thanks in advance for any help. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 15:26:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00376 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:26:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8BJS5QG018676; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BJS1H00365; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BJR3H29223 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.11f.1656dc95 (4394) for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:26:40 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <11f.1656dc95.2ab0f2f0@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need wool washing help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_11f.1656dc95.2ab0f2f0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10622 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:26:40 EDT Status: RO --part1_11f.1656dc95.2ab0f2f0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try sending a piece to a dry cleaner to steam professionally? Be very clear that you are not holding them responsible for the results, though. Ann Wass --part1_11f.1656dc95.2ab0f2f0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try sending a piece to a dry cleaner to steam professionally?  Be very clear that you are not holding them responsible for the results, though.
Ann Wass --part1_11f.1656dc95.2ab0f2f0_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 19:52:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01857 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:52:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8BNsEQG006127; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BNs6H24177; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:54:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8BNriH23934 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:53:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A860119E01F2; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:57:20 -0500 Message-ID: <00ba01c259ee$b946ab20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball (New Fun Class) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:55:35 -0400 Status: RO I can't wait to see you Teddy! Is your costume orange? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Sep 11 20:36:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02085 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:36:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8C0c9QG012965; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8C0c7H24608; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8C0bFH23989 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g8C0aujL081800 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:36:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200209120036.g8C0aujL081800@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need wool washing help To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Robin Netherton" at Sep 11, 2002 12:19:52 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I've never tried to salvage such for garments, but wool experiments have many other uses -- filling for comforters for those allergic to down, wrapped around board fora pressing table, cut into bits for tailors hams, etc etc etc. .heather. > > > I've been going through my fabric stash (look for some items for sale > soon!) and I am now facing a sizable box of my wool "experiments." These > were fabrics I washed, fulled, and/or dyed that didn't come out as well as > I'd like. Now, if the wool isn't going to wash up, I'm glad to find that > out *before* I make it into a garment. But that does leave me with some > sad remains. > > So, I'm wondering if any of the wool experts on this list have any > suggestions on how I might salvage these pieces. The chief problem I have > is when the wool seems to be shrinking or pulling unevenly. I'm used to > seeing the body of the fabric shrink more than the selvedges (which end up > rippling a bit), but the problem comes when the effect seems to happen all > over, unevenly. I'm not getting a lot of pilling, and the color is fine. > It's just the weave is rippling or pulling irregularly all over. I also > sometimes get a rough surface (on worsteds) or a crepey one (on woolens), > even when the original was very smooth. Ironing doesn't help. > > Is there a trick I can use to improve this already-ruined pieces -- a > particular washing agent, or a way of washing or drying that would even > out the weave/shrinkage/surface? > > These are usually large pieces -- many yards -- so I can't, say, stretch > them out by hand. > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 02:04:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05124 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8C668QG004985; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8C666H09348; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8C65PH08781 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.106.23]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALC40254; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:03:51 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00cc01c25a22$d7fc0180$f9614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] more undyeing linen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:07:56 +0100 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: Drea Leed To: Melanie Wilson Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] more undyeing linen > > > > >What color is okay for Elizabethan corsets? > > I've seen written references to red corsets and a portrait of a pink > corset. The two extant corsets are both cream colored, one of cream silk > and one of cream cotton/linen fustian. > > I prefer white or cream, if only so that I don't worry about sweating and > having color bleed onto my outer garments. :) > > Drea > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 02:12:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA09892 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 02:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8C6EAQG006273; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:14:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8C6E7H14578; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8C6DhH14312 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.106.23]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALC40466; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:12:09 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <010d01c25a24$007e60c0$f9614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need wool washing help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:16:58 +0100 Status: RO Generally it sounds as iff the warp & weft are badly matched hence the dimension stability is really bad, once they have done this there isn't a great deal you can do to undo it, but you could try being really harsh on the fabric and boil washing it, this can sometimes result in a felt or a stetchy fabric that is usable in some projects. Unfortunatly the fault lies in the original processing of the fabric (before you got it.) If you did this again, I'd tend to say do a small piece and if it happened return the lot for a refund, I'm not sure of you laws etc there but here in the UK you should have no problemns returning the fabric as unsuitable. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 06:13:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26537 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:13:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CAD9QG015220; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 04:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CAD7H25342; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 04:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CACvH25267 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 04:12:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-123-40-174.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.123.40.174] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17pQxz-00072h-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:12:55 +0100 Message-ID: <002401c25a45$63606460$ae287bd5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] AMAZING 1930s WHITE FUR COAT vintage 30s Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:15:57 +0100 Status: RO Hi all, For once an E-Bay description is fair: I think that this coat really is amazing! see: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2139470007&rd=1 I am wondering what the pattern of a coat like this is; presumably a circle starting around knee-length attached to a tight fitting tailored body, but I'm far from sure. Can anyone enlighten me? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 06:38:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26582 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:38:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CAe8QG019746; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 04:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CAe7H14021; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 04:40:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g8CAdAK13679 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 04:39:10 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] AMAZING 1930s WHITE FUR COAT vintage 30s Message-ID: <20020912043909.F18314@net.indra.com> References: <002401c25a45$63606460$ae287bd5@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002401c25a45$63606460$ae287bd5@dan> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 04:39:09 -0600 Status: RO On Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 11:15:57AM +0100, Stevie Gamble wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2139470007&rd=1 If it's not a circle attached to the upper half (which might be under the breasts instead of at the waist to smooth the lines), then it could be gores to give it all the fullness. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 08:17:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26814 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:17:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CCJ9QG006424; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CCJ7H23601; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f53.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.53]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CCITH23165 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 05:18:23 -0700 Received: from 63.12.15.3 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:18:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.15.3] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need wool washing help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2002 12:18:23.0672 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D5CDB80:01C25A56] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:48:23 +0930 Status: RO Robin wrote: > >I've been going through my fabric stash (look for some items for sale >soon!) and I am now facing a sizable box of my wool "experiments." These >were fabrics I washed, fulled, and/or dyed that didn't come out as well as >I'd like. Now, if the wool isn't going to wash up, I'm glad to find that >out *before* I make it into a garment. But that does leave me with some >sad remains. > >So, I'm wondering if any of the wool experts on this list have any >suggestions on how I might salvage these pieces. The chief problem I have >is when the wool seems to be shrinking or pulling unevenly. I'm used to >seeing the body of the fabric shrink more than the selvedges (which end up >rippling a bit), but the problem comes when the effect seems to happen all >over, unevenly. I'm not getting a lot of pilling, and the color is fine. >It's just the weave is rippling or pulling irregularly all over. I also >sometimes get a rough surface (on worsteds) or a crepey one (on woolens), >even when the original was very smooth. Ironing doesn't help. > >Is there a trick I can use to improve this already-ruined pieces -- a >particular washing agent, or a way of washing or drying that would even >out the weave/shrinkage/surface? > >These are usually large pieces -- many yards -- so I can't, say, stretch >them out by hand. > >Thanks in advance for any help. > >--Robin > Hello There are several tricks that I've learned from my mum. Wool should always be washed in warm water(Prevents streaching). You should always use a detergent that is specificaly for woolens(prevents "fluffyness"). Woolens are best dried flat(prevents streaching), on a warm day. And it's best not to use a washing machine. For large amounts of woolen fabric I put it in the bath-tub with water and detergent and "walk" on it. Rebecca _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 08:27:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26858 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:27:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CCS8QG007939; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CCS7H00441; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CCRVH29970 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:27:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-63.214.70.65.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([63.214.70.65]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17pT4D-0007aR-00 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 05:27:30 -0700 X-Sender: sheilabb@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007401c21926$76eb9f00$1bf3ef41@hppav> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: sheilabb@earthlink.net Subject: [h-cost] Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:24:24 -0400 Status: RO Please reply to sheilabb@earthlink.net Dear Friends, I'm thrilled that our Italian musical tour this year will include a performance of Hildegard von Bingen's "Ordo Virtutem", the battle between the Devil and the Heavenly Virtues for Anima (Soul). We have 17 women in the Virtue chorus, and as we don't always have the same personnel from year to year, we can't afford (nor can they!) to make real period costumes. Our performance "outfits" are basic black -- black sweaters, shirts, skirts, pants, whatever, just no jeans -- and I'm trying to come up with something that can go over the "basic black" that would *suggest* something medieval-ish (Hildegard is late 11th c German). The issues here are not authenticity of fabric or accuracy (gasp) of design. I just need something reasonably easy and not very fitted to make for 17 women (in a variety of figures!) that will be easy to get in and out of, easy to pack in a suitcase and won't get too wrinkled so it will still look good for the 12 days we're there in February... I'm overwhelmed with things in other parts of my life and will not see a reply here, so please offer your advice and share your wisdom by replying to me at sheilabb@earthlink.net Hoping for some great ideas and tips! Sheila B Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilabb@earthlink.net http://www.earlymusicboston.com for New England Early Music CALENDAR & BRS-West 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 VOX 978/263.9926 FAX 978/263.2366 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 08:29:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26869 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:29:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CCV8QG008506; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:31:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CCV7H02853; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:31:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8CCUbH02551 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:30:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020912123037.40663.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 13:30:37 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need wool washing help To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 13:30:37 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Rebecca Anderson > There are several tricks that I've learned from my mum. Well, I have learned all those from my mum too *G* Mums are great, but not always very practical. what I do nowadays against my mum's very good advice, is: > Wool should always be washed in warm water(Prevents streaching). I always wash on 30-40 C > You should always use a detergent that is specificaly for woolens(prevents > "fluffyness"). The best one I ever came across is the Lavender wool wash from Australia, available in the UK via Lakeland. Fantastic stuff, and everything smells of lavender too. > Woolens are best dried flat(prevents streaching), on a warm day. I can't be bothered because A) warm days??? here???? harharhar and B) no space. I always dry it handging from a clothes' line but keep turning it as often as possible to prevent the worst hang-marks. > And it's best not to use a washing machine. I ALWAYS wash ALL of my wool in the machine. I hate hate hate hate hate hand washing *G* It works a treat so far, no disasters, but I agree with Mel I think, Robin, that your wool was badly woven to start with. What a shame! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 09:38:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27284 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:38:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CDeCQG021062; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:40:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CDeBH27075; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CDdMH26233 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Mayfair13a@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.11.) id 6.121.16aa427c (16335) for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:39:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Mayfair13a@aol.com Message-ID: <121.16aa427c.2ab1f301@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_121.16aa427c.2ab1f301_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10637 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1276 - 5 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:39:13 EDT Status: RO --part1_121.16aa427c.2ab1f301_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/11/02 12:18:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > Robin wrote: > > So, I'm wondering if any of the wool experts on this list have any > suggestions on how I might salvage these pieces. The chief problem I have > is when the wool seems to be shrinking or pulling unevenly. I'm used to > seeing the body of the fabric shrink more than the selvedges (which end up > rippling a bit), but the problem comes when the effect seems to happen all > over, unevenly. I'm not getting a lot of pilling, and the color is fine. > It's just the weave is rippling or pulling irregularly all over. I also > sometimes get a rough surface (on worsteds) or a crepey one (on woolens), > even when the original was very smooth. Ironing doesn't help. > > Is there a trick I can use to improve this already-ruined pieces -- a > particular washing agent, or a way of washing or drying that would even > out the weave/shrinkage/surface? > > These are usually large pieces -- many yards -- so I can't, say, stretch > them out by hand. > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > --Robin > > > Hi Robin, I am not a wool expert but I have had some luck using a ton of liquid fabric softener to improve the texture and workability of wool. I've also found that using dishwashing detergent (in very very small amounts) is helpful in wool washing projects. Give em' both a try. Good Luck! Cheers! Pasha --part1_121.16aa427c.2ab1f301_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/11/02 12:18:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes:


Robin wrote:

So, I'm wondering if any of the wool experts on this list have any
suggestions on how I might salvage these pieces. The chief problem I have
is when the wool seems to be shrinking or pulling unevenly. I'm used to
seeing the body of the fabric shrink more than the selvedges (which end up
rippling a bit), but the problem comes when the effect seems to happen all
over, unevenly. I'm not getting a lot of pilling, and the color is fine.
It's just the weave is rippling or pulling irregularly all over. I also
sometimes get a rough surface (on worsteds) or a crepey one (on woolens),
even when the original was very smooth. Ironing doesn't help.

Is there a trick I can use to improve this already-ruined pieces -- a
particular washing agent, or a way of washing or drying that would even
out the weave/shrinkage/surface?

These are usually large pieces -- many yards -- so I can't, say, stretch
them out by hand.

Thanks in advance for any help.

--Robin


Hi Robin,

I am not a wool expert but I have had some luck using a ton of liquid fabric softener to improve the texture and workability of wool.  I've also found that using dishwashing detergent (in very very small amounts) is helpful in wool washing projects.  Give em' both a try.  Good Luck!

Cheers!

Pasha

 --part1_121.16aa427c.2ab1f301_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 09:57:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27458 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:57:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CDwAQG024568; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:58:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CDw9H12610; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (sm0101.promedia.net [208.131.40.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CDvHH11701 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:57:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gateway (ppp-208-171-197-223.01.promedia.net [208.171.197.223]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8CDvE110098 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:57:15 -0700 Message-ID: <002101c25a64$47f82770$0100a8c0@gateway> From: "Joan Broneske" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:57:00 -0700 Status: RO What about a tabard, or something like that? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 5:24 AM Subject: [h-cost] Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately > Please reply to sheilabb@earthlink.net > > > > Dear Friends, > > I'm thrilled that our Italian musical tour this year will include a > performance of Hildegard von Bingen's "Ordo Virtutem", > the battle between the Devil and the Heavenly Virtues for > Anima (Soul). We have 17 women in the Virtue chorus, > and as we don't always have the same personnel from year > to year, we can't afford (nor can they!) to make real period > costumes. > > Our performance "outfits" are basic black -- black sweaters, > shirts, skirts, pants, whatever, just no jeans -- and I'm trying > to come up with something that can go over the "basic black" > that would *suggest* something medieval-ish (Hildegard is > late 11th c German). The issues here are not authenticity of > fabric or accuracy (gasp) of design. I just need something > reasonably easy and not very fitted to make for 17 women > (in a variety of figures!) that will be easy to get in and out of, > easy to pack in a suitcase and won't get too wrinkled so it > will still look good for the 12 days we're there in February... > > I'm overwhelmed with things in other parts of my life and > will not see a reply here, so please offer your advice and > share your wisdom by replying to me at sheilabb@earthlink.net > > Hoping for some great ideas and tips! > > Sheila B > > Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilabb@earthlink.net > > http://www.earlymusicboston.com > for New England Early Music CALENDAR & BRS-West > > 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 > VOX 978/263.9926 FAX 978/263.2366 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 10:51:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27753 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:51:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CEr9QG005598; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:53:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CEr7H03475; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8CEm3H28645 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020912144803.2559.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:48:03 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume , Angelcynn List , Lumieres List , Lagedor ListSmartgroups MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:48:03 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Dear All, I just wondered if someone on the lists here is interested in sharing an order from Wissner in Germany for their superb plastic whalebone corest boning. The minimum amount is 200 meters and that is too much for just one person, thus I am looking for people who are interested in sharing an order. The order would go to the UK, and I have their samples and price list here. Please contact me at marquis@kipar.org if you are interested, many people say their boning is the best. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 12:31:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28255 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:31:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CGXGQG027427; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CGXBH22650; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CGWAH21534 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-63.214.103.204.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([63.214.103.204]) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17pWsy-0001Mf-00 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:32:08 -0700 X-Sender: sheilabb@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: sheilabb@earthlink.net Subject: [h-cost] More...Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:29:03 -0400 Status: RO Please reply to sheilabb@earthlink.net Me again! I guess I was not clear in what I was asking for. I'm looking for some kind of jacket/wrap/tunic item that can be worn *over* our basic black outfits -- those marble churches are cold! ;-) I have not the time or money to make true medieval clothing, but I need to suggest a medieval look. Co-director wants tops that have the depth of stained glass, so that when the virtues are standing on the altar steps (or at least in front of the audience) we see an array of rich color (blues, reds, greens, purples, golds, etc). So, if you had to come up with some kind of top type item that is a relaxed fit and can be worn over the rest of the "basic black" concert outfit.... what would it be? I'm afraid I have only come up with things like haori jackets, bat-wing type wraps, etc. that meet the requirements for not much fabric per person, easy to make and won't take much room in a 23" suitcase. T-tunics slit up the front? Anyone have more ideas? We don't need to look like a religious order.. I'm grateful for any tips or leads... Sheila B Earlier I wrote Dear Friends, I'm thrilled that our Italian musical tour this year will include a performance of Hildegard von Bingen's "Ordo Virtutem", the battle between the Devil and the Heavenly Virtues for Anima (Soul). We have 17 women in the Virtue chorus, and as we don't always have the same personnel from year to year, we can't afford (nor can they!) to make real period costumes. Our performance "outfits" are basic black -- black sweaters, shirts, skirts, pants, whatever, just no jeans -- and I'm trying to come up with something that can go over the "basic black" that would *suggest* something medieval-ish (Hildegard is late 11th c German). The issues here are not authenticity of fabric or accuracy (gasp) of design. I just need something reasonably easy and not very fitted to make for 17 women (in a variety of figures!) that will be easy to get in and out of, easy to pack in a suitcase and won't get too wrinkled so it will still look good for the 12 days we're there in February... I'm overwhelmed with things in other parts of my life and will not see a reply here, so please offer your advice and share your wisdom by replying to me at sheilabb@earthlink.net Hoping for some great ideas and tips! Sheila B _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 12:48:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28302 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CGnUQG001489; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CGnTH11766; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:49:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CGmVH10578 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08310; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:51:55 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] More...Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:51:54 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 sheilabb@earthlink.net wrote: > I'm looking for some kind of jacket/wrap/tunic item that can be worn > *over* our basic black outfits -- those marble churches are cold! > ;-) Tabards -- front and back rectangular pieces connected at the shoulders, hanging loose. Scoop for the neck in front, smaller scoop in back. Hip or thigh length. Fits anyone. > I have not the time or money to make true medieval clothing, but I > need to suggest a medieval look. Co-director wants tops that have the > depth of stained glass, so that when the virtues are standing on the > altar steps (or at least in front of the audience) we see an array of > rich color (blues, reds, greens, purples, golds, etc). Perhaps for more interest, make each two-color, divided diagonally? E.g. red/blue, purple/green, anything/gold. Add black plain trim around the edges and along the division line. There's your stained-glass look, and also a medieval heraldic image. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 12:48:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28306 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:48:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CGnJQG001428; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CGnGH11430; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CGmOH10469 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:48:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08310; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:51:55 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] More...Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:51:54 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 sheilabb@earthlink.net wrote: > I'm looking for some kind of jacket/wrap/tunic item that can be worn > *over* our basic black outfits -- those marble churches are cold! > ;-) Tabards -- front and back rectangular pieces connected at the shoulders, hanging loose. Scoop for the neck in front, smaller scoop in back. Hip or thigh length. Fits anyone. > I have not the time or money to make true medieval clothing, but I > need to suggest a medieval look. Co-director wants tops that have the > depth of stained glass, so that when the virtues are standing on the > altar steps (or at least in front of the audience) we see an array of > rich color (blues, reds, greens, purples, golds, etc). Perhaps for more interest, make each two-color, divided diagonally? E.g. red/blue, purple/green, anything/gold. Add black plain trim around the edges and along the division line. There's your stained-glass look, and also a medieval heraldic image. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 13:12:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28488 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 13:12:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CHDDQG006885; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CHDBH08060; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CHCfH07457 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.5.82] (p18.3c07.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.5.82]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17703 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:07:58 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020912144803.2559.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:00:01 -0600 Status: RO on 9/12/02 8:48 AM, N Kipar at nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com wrote: > Dear All, > > I just wondered if someone on the lists here is interested in sharing an order > from Wissner in Germany for their superb plastic whalebone corest boning. The > minimum amount is 200 meters and that is too much for just one person, thus I > am looking for people who are interested in sharing an order. The order would > go to the UK, and I have their samples and price list here. > > Please contact me at marquis@kipar.org if you are interested, many people say > their boning is the best. Since this is plastic, how does it compare to Rigilene? I have been thinking lately of getting some sturdier boning but I'd like something that doesn't require buying equipment to cut and grind as steel boning needs. Sylvia Rognstad -- Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com > > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 14:45:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00540 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:45:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CIj8bD009811; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CIj1H09208; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CIiSH08547 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-63.214.85.218.dial1.boston1.level3.net ([63.214.85.218] helo=[63.214.82.172]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17pYx0-0006Dq-00 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:44:27 -0700 X-Sender: sheilabb@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: sheilabb@earthlink.net Subject: [h-cost] #3...Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:41:21 -0400 Status: RO Please reply to sheilabb@earthlink.net thanks for all the good ideas which are coming in. More information I realize now I should have shared: Hildegard specifies colors and icons for her virtues. And singers don't want headgear. ;-) I'll have a chat (oops, typo'ed 'chant' -- good pun!) with my co-director to see if a tabard sort of thing would do. These are worn over black tops with either black pants or skirts, but these churches are also cold. I felt that sleeves would be good as they'd provide warmth too! If only we had the right colors of fleece! ;-) Thanks to Robin, Linda, Nancy, Catherine, Betsy & Carolyn for suggestions and ideas so far... I'll simmer this at the back of my brain for a bit. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 17:25:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01240 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:25:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CLR3bD025915; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLR1H24428; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLQGH23917 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.166]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C4AB263C86 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 23:26:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000601c25aa3$21b38f20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20020912144803.2559.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 23:27:00 +0200 Status: RO Dear Nikole. When i made your blue baroque dress, i ordered the minimum amount, and i still have a lot left. If you were interrested, you could buy a roll of their boning from me. Dont know how much there is in a roll, but i shall check tomorrow. I think i only used 1/2 a roll for your bodice. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: "H-Costume" ; "Angelcynn List" ; "Lumieres List" ; "Lagedor ListSmartgroups" Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:48 PM Subject: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? > Dear All, > > I just wondered if someone on the lists here is interested in sharing an order > from Wissner in Germany for their superb plastic whalebone corest boning. The > minimum amount is 200 meters and that is too much for just one person, thus I > am looking for people who are interested in sharing an order. The order would > go to the UK, and I have their samples and price list here. > > Please contact me at marquis@kipar.org if you are interested, many people say > their boning is the best. > > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 17:42:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01301 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:42:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CLi1bD027251; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLi0H05371; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLh3H04791 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id AA449053A; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:42:28 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [h-cost] #3...Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:42:28 -0500 Status: RO hmm, a bit elaborate, but it does have sleeves.. http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/costumes/1930-28-1.shtml -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of sheilabb@earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 1:41 PM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] #3...Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately Please reply to sheilabb@earthlink.net thanks for all the good ideas which are coming in. More information I realize now I should have shared: Hildegard specifies colors and icons for her virtues. And singers don't want headgear. ;-) I'll have a chat (oops, typo'ed 'chant' -- good pun!) with my co-director to see if a tabard sort of thing would do. These are worn over black tops with either black pants or skirts, but these churches are also cold. I felt that sleeves would be good as they'd provide warmth too! If only we had the right colors of fleece! ;-) Thanks to Robin, Linda, Nancy, Catherine, Betsy & Carolyn for suggestions and ideas so far... I'll simmer this at the back of my brain for a bit. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 17:43:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01307 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:43:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CLj1bD027339; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLj0H05987; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:45:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLiIH05565 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host62-6-78-135.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.78.135] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17pbl2-0001pD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:44:16 +0100 Message-ID: <002301c25aa5$f7a53be0$874e063e@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Medieval strikes again... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:47:17 +0100 Status: RO Hi all, Anywhere out there in dire need of a "Gold Viking Helmet/Hat Medieval Warrior" before the season comes to an end should take a look at: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1765428197 where they will find: "Plastic Viking Helmet with Fur-Lined Horns BRAND NEW Authentic Replica Helmet" awaiting them. Eek.... Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 17:44:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01312 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:44:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CLk0bD027411; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLk0H06642; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLjcH06359 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:45:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-99-194.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.99.194]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AKZ83154; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:43:28 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <029b01c25aa6$31a89d00$176a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20020818082059.41754.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cross dressing soldiers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:48:55 +0100 Status: RO This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 17:54:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01338 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:54:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CLu4bD028150; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLu2H12242; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx09.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx09.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.19]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CLtgH12060 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.103]) by mx09.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 1245671; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:55:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] #3...Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately Cc: sheilabb@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:55:35 -0400 Status: RO I think I've seen Faire tabards with additional rectangles over the arms- add ties to the bottom (wrists) and they'd be proto-sleeves. Fleece would be great if you can find it in the right colors- it comes in quite a few, so you may be in luck! -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 18:47:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01605 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:47:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CMn1bD002294; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CMn0H12123; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.mcn.org (smtp.mcn.org [204.189.12.25]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CMmaH11854 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ha-1o-men-p3-m16.mcn.org [63.193.12.124]) by smtp.mcn.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CMmWJ6010936 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed From: Fred Struthers To: h-costume Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g8CMmaH11854 Subject: [h-cost] RL Shep Award Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:48:34 -0700 Status: RO respectfully submitted to the list: Katherine Larson’s “WOVEN COVERLETS OF NORWAY” is the winner of the 2002 R.L. Shep Book Award, administered and presented by the Textile Society of America for the best book of the year in the field of ethnic textiles.   The book is publshed by the University of Washington Press.  Books published in the year 2001 were eligible for the 2002 award. Katherine Larson also curated the exhibit “Woven Treasures: The Coverlets of Norway” which was at the Nordic Heritage Museum, Seattle in the  fall of 2001. Textile Society of America which can be contacted at P.O. Box 70. Earleville, MD 21929-0070.  Web site - http://textilesociety.org -- http://www.rlshep.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 18:59:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01706 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:59:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CN18bD003210; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CN17H18578; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CN0FH18080 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:52:24 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AAA817890120; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:52:24 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:52:22 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] RL Shep Award Message-ID: <000201c25ab0$5563e830$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g8CN0FH18080 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:01:26 -0500 Status: RO What a good choice! I saw the exhibit, and couldn't resist buying the book as well. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Fred Struthers Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 5:49 PM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] RL Shep Award respectfully submitted to the list: Katherine Larson’s “WOVEN COVERLETS OF NORWAY” is the winner of the 2002 R.L. Shep Book Award, administered and presented by the Textile Society of America for the best book of the year in the field of ethnic textiles.   The book is publshed by the University of Washington Press.  Books published in the year 2001 were eligible for the 2002 award. Katherine Larson also curated the exhibit “Woven Treasures: The Coverlets of Norway” which was at the Nordic Heritage Museum, Seattle in the  fall of 2001. Textile Society of America which can be contacted at P.O. Box 70. Earleville, MD 21929-0070.  Web site - http://textilesociety.org -- http://www.rlshep.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 19:00:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01721 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:00:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CN22bD003284; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CN21H19079; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from latte.2xtreme.net (latte.2xtreme.net [66.250.18.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8CN1EH18674 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 18575 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 23:28:00 -0000 Received: from 66-81-55-77-modem.o1.com (HELO 2xtreme.net) (66.81.55.77) by latte.2xtreme.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 23:28:00 -0000 Message-ID: <3D8119DF.E412E5B0@2xtreme.net> From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020904180425.02aecd60@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:49:03 -0700 Status: RO Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome. -- Stephen Bergdahl www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 19:37:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01916 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:37:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8CNd2bD005922; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CNd0H06630; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:39:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8CNcCH06260 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.11a.16a1b63d (657) for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:38:02 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: <11a.16a1b63d.2ab27f5a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to LA To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:38:02 EDT Status: RO I live in Ventura---about an hour north of LA---and make 'pilgrimages to the Garment District 2 or 3 times a year:) Any more often ---and I'd be in the poorhouse:('There are lots of wonderful places there to shop----!! The ones I mainly go to are downtown near the blocks between 8th and 9th st--- and Wall and Maple. CashKool has a wild array of goodies and 'deals'; Silk City is my favorite for silk dupioni($5. yard). Near CashKool, around the corner---is the former Holiday Fabrics(I think that they changed their name--can anyone else recall what the new one is?) --which has terrific upholstry fabrics--silk taffetas,velveteens, brocades.There are a lot of other stores within those blocks that I frequent--although I can't remember all the store names . There is also Berger Beads on 8th st for findings--as well as Bohemian Crystal , a half block away (on either Wall or Maple)There is so much variety, that you can't help but fall into something nifty :) Happy hunting! Albra/Kathryn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 20:26:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02100 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:26:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8D0S4bD008410; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D0S1H24286; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D0R9H23994 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:27:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.102]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H2C00AB2P981V@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:27:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to LA In-reply-to: <3D8119DF.E412E5B0@2xtreme.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020912172543.00cdd100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020904180425.02aecd60@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:26:58 -0700 Status: RO >Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some >recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage >to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome. I went into Bergers once, and it was mind-blowing in its variety. There's also a place called something like Hollywood Feathers, similarly amazing. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 20:48:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02184 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:48:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8D0o2bD009425; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D0o1H02070; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D0nfH01953 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DarlaKDavis@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.c6.1195b43e (30950) for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:49:32 -0400 (EDT) From: DarlaKDavis@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to LA To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_c6.1195b43e.2ab2901c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10622 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:49:32 EDT Status: RO --part1_c6.1195b43e.2ab2901c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/12/2002 4:02:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, madly@2xtreme.net writes: > Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some > recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage > to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome. > -- > Stephen Bergdahl > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm > > Don't forget Michael Levin's (might be Levine's) They have two shops, WONDERFUL Katrin --part1_c6.1195b43e.2ab2901c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/12/2002 4:02:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, madly@2xtreme.net writes:


Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some
recommendations on Fabric shops to see.  We will be making a pilgrimage
to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome.
--
Stephen Bergdahl
www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm



Don't forget Michael Levin's (might be Levine's)  They have two shops, WONDERFUL

Katrin --part1_c6.1195b43e.2ab2901c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 20:58:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02203 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:58:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8D102bD009915; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D100H05177; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:00:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D0xFH04950 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:59:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8D0vEwR016039 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:57:15 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Going to LA Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3D8119DF.E412E5B0@2xtreme.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:10:00 -0700 Status: RO I've had good luck with velvets at Joseph Designer Fabric at 432 E. 9th Street #6-7 (right in the Wall and Maple area. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Bergdahl Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 3:49 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome. -- Stephen Bergdahl http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 21:04:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02236 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:04:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8D161bD010210; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D161H07081; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D15EH06855 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:05:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.187.28.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.187.28] helo=[63.53.186.244]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17petT-00063w-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:05:11 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002301c25aa5$f7a53be0$874e063e@dan> References: <002301c25aa5$f7a53be0$874e063e@dan> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval strikes again... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:01:37 -0700 Status: RO At 10:47 PM +0100 9/12/02, Stevie Gamble wrote: >Hi all, > >Anywhere out there in dire need of a "Gold Viking Helmet/Hat Medieval >Warrior" before the season comes to an end should take a look at: > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1765428197 > >where they will find: > > "Plastic Viking Helmet >with Fur-Lined Horns >BRAND NEW >Authentic Replica Helmet" > >awaiting them. > >Eek.... Definitely eek. What has me wondering, though, is -- why fur-lined _horns_? A fur-lined _cap_, now that I could understand..... -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Sep 12 23:06:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02768 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 23:06:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8D382bD015636; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D381H14835; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8D37UH14539 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:07:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020913030534.67586.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:05:34 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <003b01c25979$55ff3a20$3f297ad5@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Cisele Velvet (was ornamentation of velvet wrap) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:05:34 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Well, it would be helpful if you could let us know > your source. Certainly. This book is completely devoted to velvet and its weaving. It is called "Velvet: History Techniques Fashion", edited by Fabrizio de Marinis, my English edition by Idea Books NY, 1994. Original edition in Italian by Idea Books, Milan, 1993. Book is made up of essays by: Aurora Fiorentini Capitani (author of many publications on fashion) Roberta Orsi Landini (Expert on ancient textiles, director of Arte della Seta Lisio foundation, works for Galleria del Costume in Florence. Curator.) Luisella Pennati (architect, works in set design of the Teatro della Scala Milan) Alfredo Redaelli (director of the Radaelli Velluti) Stefania Ricci (in charge of the historical archive of Salvatore Ferragamo and Emilio Pucci, author on costume and fashion) One charecteristic of cisele velvet that has so far not been mentioned is that patterns in cisele velvet were on a small scale. From this source on the invention of cisele velvets: "In the context of the velvets that were manufactured for use in clothing, in particular the smaller size of the design module, which allowed a more rapid shift in the programming of the looms, prompted the weavers to engage in experimentation with every effect imaginable, and to work to devlop new esthetic and technical innovations. The most popular type became that of cisele velvets, which featured loops and tufts. The combinations among the two types of pile, and the relationships among those types and the ground, gave rise to fabrics with different appearances and qualities of light and weight. In the traditional formula, the motif was made of tufts of cut pile on a ground usually in satin. The uncut pile surrounded it in a fine line that was of lower height and which had a distinct luminous tone, so as to create an intermediate passage which made the decoration practically a bas-relief. But the plastic qualities of the fabric were no longer the prime consideration of the weaver, who was now intent on composing planes of varied luminosity. At times the weaver would reverse the relationships, designing the motif in reverse so that it would appear to be carved out of the pile; or else the weaver would give prevalence to the areas in uncut pile, or trace two different patterns, using two or three different levels of the fabric. In some cases, the ground never appears at and the motif (in uncut pile on a ground of cut pile, or vice versa) became visible only through the way the light struck the velvet." Note the oft repeated words "weaver" and the phrase "programming of the looms" - I think the word cut is what is being misunderstood in this case, because the cutting of velvet pile is part of the weaving process, but may be misundertood to happen after the weaving process. I have a few examples of period cisele velvets here: My source for the definition of ferronnerie and its connection with voided velvets (as distinct from cisele) is a booklet put out by Scalamandre Silks: "Textiles of the Italian Renaissance; their History and Development" by the director of the Scalamandre Museum of Textiles, John Kent Tilton. In it he says: "Florence was also noted for its beautiful and delicate wrought iron, the motifs of which were inspirational for the patterns of the Florentine voided velvets. They were known as "ferronnerie" velvets. Their delicate ogival lines, suggestive of the late Gothic, were rendered in leaf-shaped panels and appear to be etched or incised in the silk pile of the velvet. The centre motif, which they encircled, was invariably the artichoke and in the mid 16th century the pineapple, with fanciful small asters, carnations or thistles sprouting from their tops. The feeling of wrought iron ornament was also seen in Florentine brocatelles and damasks." ===== Lady Bella Lucia da Verona Innilgard, Lochac The Realm of Venus http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona Owner, Courtesan E-mail Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Now send & receive IMs on your mobile via SMS _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 01:04:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03149 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:04:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8D566bD021462; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 23:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D561H21428; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 23:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web14708.mail.yahoo.com (web14708.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.125]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8D55uH21400 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 23:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020913050556.61493.qmail@web14708.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.203.23.249] by web14708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:05:56 PDT From: Gerack Talmoor To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Strung buttons Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I recall reading an account of buttons being strung on a cord and used to close garments like modern cuff links. Unfortunately I can't find any reference to it now. Has anyone else heard of this? If I remember correctly it was used with cotehardies during the 14th century but I'm not sure. Thanks Holland __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 03:11:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25031 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 03:11:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8D7D2bD025606; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D7D1o22681; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8D7Cwo22669 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020913071257.739.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:12:57 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Strung buttons To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020913050556.61493.qmail@web14708.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:12:57 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Gerack Talmoor wrote: > I recall reading an account of buttons being strung on > a cord and used to close garments like modern cuff > links. Unfortunately I can't find any reference to it > now. Has anyone else heard of this? If I remember > correctly it was used with cotehardies during the 14th > century but I'm not sure. I recall this too, but for early 17th century, English Civil War period. I have the same problem though, for the life of me I can't remember where the writer got the evidence from... Anyone? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 04:35:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26122 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:35:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8D8b1bD028385; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 02:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D8b0o12782; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 02:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com [66.28.189.73]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8D8aQo12609 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 02:36:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ivweb04la (unverified [10.1.200.106]) by ivsmtp02la.mail2world.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:36:08 -0700 thread-index: AcJbAJtNXbRzwh01T32XnSDL7rRJ5A== Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Going to SF From: "freyalyn" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF Message-ID: <133901c25b00$9b4d3090$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_133A_01C25AC5.EEEE5890" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:36:08 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_133A_01C25AC5.EEEE5890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, oh, can people please let me know what's exciting in the textiley line in San Francisco as well, as I'm going at the end of October. Please? Freyalyn _______________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage has the scoop on what matters most to you. <-----Original Message-----> > > From: Stephen Bergdahl > Sent: 9/12/2002 11:48:03 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA > > > Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some > recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage > to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome. > -- > Stephen Bergdahl > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm > > Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html > > Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com > Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings > Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > . > ------=_NextPart_000_133A_01C25AC5.EEEE5890 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, oh, can people please let me know what's exciting in the textiley line in San Francisco as well, as I'm going at the end of October.

Please?

Freyalyn


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<-----Original Message----->
>
> From: Stephen Bergdahl
> Sent: 9/12/2002 11:48:03 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA
>
>
> Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some
> recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage
> to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome.
> --
> Stephen Bergdahl
> www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm
>
> Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid
> www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html
>
> Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com
> Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings
> Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> .
>
------=_NextPart_000_133A_01C25AC5.EEEE5890-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 06:10:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26354 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 06:10:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DAB3bD000556; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DAB1o02550; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8DAAto02524 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020913101054.740.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:10:54 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:10:54 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- sylvia wrote: > > Since this is plastic, how does it compare to Rigilene? It is much sturdier I was told, rigilene is apparently floppier, but there should be others who know better, I have never used rigilene, and I am actually very new to corset or boned bodice making, I always had mine made. I have been > thinking lately of getting some sturdier boning but I'd like something that > doesn't require buying equipment to cut and grind as steel boning needs. That would work well, you cut it with plastic cutters and then file/sand the end smooth. Where are you located? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 06:49:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26593 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 06:49:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DAp1bD001396; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DAp0o11895; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8DAooo11837 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:50:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020913105050.85691.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:50:50 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Average meters of boning needed for corsets? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:50:50 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Hi All, I am completely new to this corset making thing and need you help in averaging how many meters of boning I would need per corset or bodice. For different periods, if possible. I am a medium size, well, you saw the pix, a UK 16, or German 42 and a 38B bust. I asked for the average meters for Margo's corset pattern on herlist (got that one at home and am very eager to try it with Teddy's help!) Does anyone know for a 17th and an 18th c. corset, and even for a 19th c. one perhaps? Thanks ever so much Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:32:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28070 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:32:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DFj5bD015464; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DFj1o27040; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DFiNo26716 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:44:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mdx.ac.uk by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) id <01KMGJB1N54000HIAX@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:44:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk ([158.94.199.2]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V6.1-1 #38636) with ESMTP id <01KMGJAYUYTG00JIVI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:44:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-CF-S1/SpoolDir by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:41:54 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-CF-S1 (Mercury 1.48); Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:41:32 +0000 Received: from cf-lib-11587 (158.94.199.113) by mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:41:28 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball In-reply-to: <20020912163311.22450.49520.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <107704013CC@mdx-cf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Comment: Middlesex University has scanned this message for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:41:28 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I can't wait to see you Teddy! Is your costume orange? Nope. Bright tarty red. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:34:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28074 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:34:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DFR3bD013863; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DFR2o17031; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.95]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DFPvo16429 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:25:58 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Searching for a rigid heddle Thread-Index: AcJbOamkIi7lx7++RgWGLT9VPWkhFA== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g8DFPvo16429 Subject: [h-cost] Searching for a rigid heddle Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:24:35 -0700 Status: RO Hi everyone, I'm trying to find out where I can get a rigid heddle like the one shown in the Museum of London Textiles and Clothing book on page 25. Any suggestions? Thanks! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:34:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28077 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:34:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DFM2bD013460; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DFM0o14147; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DFL6o13689 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g8DFKksw094599 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:20:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200209131520.g8DFKksw094599@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Carol Kocian" at Sep 13, 2002 09:12:44 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO > > There are several types of boning available. I haven't used > them all in a garment, but I've handled them all and heard various > opinions. > > Feather boning: white plastic, comes in a roll, usually in a white > cotton casing. You can also machine stitch through the plastic. > Available in most fabric stores. Someone recently said she used it > successfully, and that she is small-busted. I find that, with wear, > it bends and ripples quickly, and ultimately does not offer much > support. It may work in fully-boned stays, but I don't know anyone > who has tried that. > > White metal boning: Comes in 1/2" and 1/4" widths (approximately, it > seems to be getting thinner), in cut and finished length increments > of 1/2", and apparently also available in a roll. Can be cut, filed, > and dipped to specific lengths. I prefer to use the pre-made > lengths, and find it's best to leave a bit of room in the length of > the channel. The pre-finished ends will work through the fabric > eventually, so a leather or other sturdy binding is important on the > edges of the corset. The boning offers great support. > > Spiral boning: Looks like a flattened spring. Comes in 1/2" and 1/4" > widths in increments of 1/2" length, also as a roll. Easier to cut > to length, and end caps are available. I find that, if cut > carefully, I don't need to use an end cap. Spiral boning has some > sideways flex, which is good for 19thC corsets. > > Rigiline: This is a series of about 4 to 8 nylon strands (1/4" and > 1/2" widths) woven into a polyester tape. It's very easy to cut. > The downside is that the nylon can creep beyond the tape and poke > through the outer fabric. The cure - melt the ends with a flame. > The very detail-oriented costumer can also split the width of > rigiline and melt the long edge for a 1/8" width. You can machine > sew through it. Rigiline is more for light use than heavy corsetry, > but when narrowed to 1/8" it's great as the horizontal bones across > the bust of 18thC stays. > > Wissner plastic whalebone: I have some of this, but have not > actually used it yet. It comes in two thicknesses as well as > different widths. It would definitely be easier to cut than metal > boning! The rigidity is good, and supposedly was designed to most > resemble whalebone. > > Oak basket splints: Another thing I have not tried, but some people > like the half-round splints for 18thC stays. Cheaper than the other > options, but wood will not have as much flex as metal and can break. > > Horsehair braid: You know, that plastic (nylon?) tape, woven > diagonally (like a shoelace), generally for adding flare to skirt > hems. You can make it narrower by stretching, and then layer and > machine stitch them together for more rigidity. It's not good for > corset boning, but works well to stiffen bodice seams. The ends have > to be very well-contained or the little strands will poke through. > > Hooping: This is two metal pieces in a buckram or plastic casing. > It's meant for skirt supports, not for corset boning. > > Other cheaper materials have been suggested - bamboo is probably not > a good idea, because if it breaks the long, sharp pieces can be > hazardous. I tried metal strapping tape many years ago, and it's a > lot of work but not very flexible. Anyone try plastic strapping > tape? Fortunately, there are a lot of options available of boning > that is made for the purpose. > > Did I leave anything out? > Hemp! There are a number of people using Hemp cord for renaissance corsets that have dress diaries online -- and I believe they are on hcostume too. .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:36:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28087 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:35:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DFHEbD013100; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:17:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DFH1o11485; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DFGPo11086 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g8DFG4h9094541 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200209131516.g8DFG4h9094541@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <133901c25b00$9b4d3090$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> from "freyalyn" at Sep 13, 2002 01:36:08 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:16:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO this is most of what you need --- http://www.gbacg.org/bay_area.htm .heather. > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_133A_01C25AC5.EEEE5890 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Oh, oh, can people please let me know what's exciting in the textiley > line in San Francisco as well, as I'm going at the end of October. > > Please? > > Freyalyn > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters . > >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage > has the scoop on what matters most to you. > > <-----Original Message-----> > > > > From: Stephen Bergdahl > > Sent: 9/12/2002 11:48:03 PM > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA > > > > > > Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some > > recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage > > to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome. > > -- > > Stephen Bergdahl > > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm > > > > Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid > > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html > > > > Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com > > Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings > > Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > . > > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_133A_01C25AC5.EEEE5890 > Content-Type: text/html > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Oh, oh, can people please let me know what's exciting in the textiley line in San Francisco as well, as I'm going at the end of October.
>
> Please?
>
> Freyalyn
>
> > >
_______________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
has the scoop on what matters most to you. > >

<-----Original Message----->
> >
> > From: Stephen Bergdahl
> > Sent: 9/12/2002 11:48:03 PM
> > To: h-costume@indra.com
> > Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA
> >
> >
> > Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some
> > recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage
> > to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome.
> > --
> > Stephen Bergdahl
> > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm
> >
> > Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid
> > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html
> >
> > Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com
> > Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings
> > Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> > .
> >
> > ------=_NextPart_000_133A_01C25AC5.EEEE5890-- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:40:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28115 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:40:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DG64bD017269; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DG60l09060; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DG5gl08869 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:05:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.3.148] (p36.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.148]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22333 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:00:59 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020913101054.740.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:52:53 -0600 Status: RO on 9/13/02 4:10 AM, N Kipar at nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com wrote: > > That would work well, you cut it with plastic cutters and then file/sand the > end smooth. > Where are you located? Colorado. > >Sylvia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:45:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28230 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:45:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DET3bD009629; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DET0o17173; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8DESpo17099 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:28:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020913142851.56159.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:28:51 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average meters of boning needed for corsets? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001301c25b30$a4affcf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:28:51 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Dear Bjarne, > I still have your bodice pattern. This evening i shall pick it up and > meassure how many bones i used in this and how long they were. Oh thank you so much, but you don't need to worry, because I won't attempt such a bodice, never could I make something the way you made it! It's too complicated for me, I just wanted to make an Elizabethan corset and use the boning for a few other bits. Thank you ever so much for the offer. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:45:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28233 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:45:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DEe5bD010422; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DEe1o22351; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DEdKo21973 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew ([213.78.123.67]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALD58946; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:37:42 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <01bd01c25b33$cbe2e6e0$f8604ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average meters of boning needed for corsets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:42:32 +0100 Status: RO >I just wanted to make an Elizabethan corset and use the boning for a few other bits Have you looked at Alter years corset kits ? I don't know how they stand up, but they are reasonably priced Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:47:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28268 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DEK4bD008967; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DEK1o13049; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DEJAo12635 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:19:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fbe.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.190]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E00E34800D2 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:19:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001301c25b30$a4affcf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20020913105050.85691.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average meters of boning needed for corsets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:19:59 +0200 Status: RO Dear Nicole. I still have your bodice pattern. This evening i shall pick it up and meassure how many bones i used in this and how long they were. Your bodice and the pink baroque corset with the attached sleaves could be comparable. But the pink corset uses much narrower bones than i used in your bodice, so if you want to make the boning fully boned, you have to use more off cause, but you ca'nt use as many as in the pink corset because Wissners bones are much broader. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 12:50 PM Subject: [h-cost] Average meters of boning needed for corsets? > Hi All, > > I am completely new to this corset making thing and need you help in averaging > how many meters of boning I would need per corset or bodice. For different > periods, if possible. I am a medium size, well, you saw the pix, a UK 16, or > German 42 and a 38B bust. > I asked for the average meters for Margo's corset pattern on herlist (got that > one at home and am very eager to try it with Teddy's help!) > Does anyone know for a 17th and an 18th c. corset, and even for a 19th c. one > perhaps? > > Thanks ever so much > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:47:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28271 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:47:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DEKgbD009010; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:20:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DEKfo13440; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:20:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DEJfo12896 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H2D005KWRSNEX@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:19:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval strikes again... To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D81F29B.8020407@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:13:47 -0500 Status: RO Hey at least they had a disclaimer at the bottom that it did not provide real protection in battle! :) -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:48:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28287 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:48:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DDF5bD006064; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DDF2o19882; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:Wqlk8w8s3dtqgaQehHozD/0H52u9RzqY@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DDE2o19503 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.68] (pool181-68.patriot.net [209.249.181.68]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8DDDwj4020127 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:14:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020913101054.740.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020913101054.740.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:12:44 -0400 Status: RO There are several types of boning available. I haven't used them all in a garment, but I've handled them all and heard various opinions. Feather boning: white plastic, comes in a roll, usually in a white cotton casing. You can also machine stitch through the plastic. Available in most fabric stores. Someone recently said she used it successfully, and that she is small-busted. I find that, with wear, it bends and ripples quickly, and ultimately does not offer much support. It may work in fully-boned stays, but I don't know anyone who has tried that. White metal boning: Comes in 1/2" and 1/4" widths (approximately, it seems to be getting thinner), in cut and finished length increments of 1/2", and apparently also available in a roll. Can be cut, filed, and dipped to specific lengths. I prefer to use the pre-made lengths, and find it's best to leave a bit of room in the length of the channel. The pre-finished ends will work through the fabric eventually, so a leather or other sturdy binding is important on the edges of the corset. The boning offers great support. Spiral boning: Looks like a flattened spring. Comes in 1/2" and 1/4" widths in increments of 1/2" length, also as a roll. Easier to cut to length, and end caps are available. I find that, if cut carefully, I don't need to use an end cap. Spiral boning has some sideways flex, which is good for 19thC corsets. Rigiline: This is a series of about 4 to 8 nylon strands (1/4" and 1/2" widths) woven into a polyester tape. It's very easy to cut. The downside is that the nylon can creep beyond the tape and poke through the outer fabric. The cure - melt the ends with a flame. The very detail-oriented costumer can also split the width of rigiline and melt the long edge for a 1/8" width. You can machine sew through it. Rigiline is more for light use than heavy corsetry, but when narrowed to 1/8" it's great as the horizontal bones across the bust of 18thC stays. Wissner plastic whalebone: I have some of this, but have not actually used it yet. It comes in two thicknesses as well as different widths. It would definitely be easier to cut than metal boning! The rigidity is good, and supposedly was designed to most resemble whalebone. Oak basket splints: Another thing I have not tried, but some people like the half-round splints for 18thC stays. Cheaper than the other options, but wood will not have as much flex as metal and can break. Horsehair braid: You know, that plastic (nylon?) tape, woven diagonally (like a shoelace), generally for adding flare to skirt hems. You can make it narrower by stretching, and then layer and machine stitch them together for more rigidity. It's not good for corset boning, but works well to stiffen bodice seams. The ends have to be very well-contained or the little strands will poke through. Hooping: This is two metal pieces in a buckram or plastic casing. It's meant for skirt supports, not for corset boning. Other cheaper materials have been suggested - bamboo is probably not a good idea, because if it breaks the long, sharp pieces can be hazardous. I tried metal strapping tape many years ago, and it's a lot of work but not very flexible. Anyone try plastic strapping tape? Fortunately, there are a lot of options available of boning that is made for the purpose. Did I leave anything out? -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:49:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28305 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:49:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DCe2bD004623; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 06:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DCe1o09395; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 06:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (murphys.services.quay.plus.net [212.159.14.225]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8DCcxo09169 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 06:39:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24882 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2002 12:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO h1f0g4) (212.159.22.246) by murphy.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Sep 2002 12:38:50 -0000 Message-ID: <014801c25b22$a6c8fa40$f6169fd4@h1f0g4> From: "Sally Ann Chandler" To: References: <20020912144803.2559.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:39:48 +0100 Status: RO Nicole - what sort were you thinking of getting? I bought 200 metres a while ago - it may take me quite some time to get through it all so I may have some you can have without ordering more from Wissner for the time being. Best wishes, Sally Ann medcc@medcc.free-online.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: N Kipar To: H-Costume ; Angelcynn List ; Lumieres List ; Lagedor ListSmartgroups Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 3:48 PM Subject: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? > Dear All, > > I just wondered if someone on the lists here is interested in sharing an order > from Wissner in Germany for their superb plastic whalebone corest boning. The > minimum amount is 200 meters and that is too much for just one person, thus I > am looking for people who are interested in sharing an order. The order would > go to the UK, and I have their samples and price list here. > > Please contact me at marquis@kipar.org if you are interested, many people say > their boning is the best. > > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:50:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28315 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:50:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DBu2bD003038; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DBu1o26362; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DBtho26296 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.104] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A237E4E100A2; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:55:35 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c25b1c$ce36b960$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <002301c25aa5$f7a53be0$874e063e@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval strikes again... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:57:58 -0400 Status: RO Having had the chore of designing garb for 'Hagar' and friends at Halloween once or twice, the fur rings around the horns is a nice touch to reinforce or mask the glue...wire or whatever was necessary to attach the horns. Especially when you have used Real horns! Kathleen, who has a assistant who really likes chores like this. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" To: Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval strikes again... > At 10:47 PM +0100 9/12/02, Stevie Gamble wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >Anywhere out there in dire need of a "Gold Viking Helmet/Hat Medieval > >Warrior" before the season comes to an end should take a look at: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1765428197 > > > >where they will find: > > > > "Plastic Viking Helmet > >with Fur-Lined Horns > >BRAND NEW > >Authentic Replica Helmet" > > > >awaiting them. > > > >Eek.... > > Definitely eek. > > What has me wondering, though, is -- why fur-lined _horns_? A > fur-lined _cap_, now that I could understand..... > -- > _________________________________________________________ > O Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > _________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:50:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28318 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:50:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DBY2bD002564; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DBY1o21485; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8DBXuo21469 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:33:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020913113356.53311.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:33:56 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average meters of boning needed for corsets? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000d01c25b16$071acc00$f8604ed5@melaniew> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:33:56 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > > > I use 6m spiral boning on average per 1870s corset Thank you Mel! *notes it down* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 12:51:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28324 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:51:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DB71bD001979; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DB70o15537; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DB6Ao15376 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:06:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew ([213.78.96.248]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALD43417; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:04:36 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000d01c25b16$071acc00$f8604ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average meters of boning needed for corsets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:09:26 +0100 Status: RO >I am completely new to this corset making thing and need you help in averaging how many meters of boning I would need per corset or bodice. For different periods, if possible. I am a medium size, well, you saw the pix, a UK 16, or German 42 and a 38B bust. I asked for the average meters for Margo's corset pattern on herlist (got that one at home and am very eager to try it with Teddy's help!) Does anyone know for a 17th and an 18th c. corset, and even for a 19th c. one perhaps? I use 6m spiral boning on average per 1870s corset Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 13:30:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28636 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:30:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DHW4bD024522; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DHW2l00275; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DHVHl29670 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:31:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpuqN0PdWUR3/Tz6A/Q2wr6ANV7otmUYHA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id HCLT2L49; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:30:19 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20020913.122836.-504065.10.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,7-12,19-20,23-35 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21-Shameless Plug Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:28:36 -0500 Status: RO Hello Everyone, It's been awhile since I've shamelessly plugged CostumeCon 21 here in the Beautiful Windy City- so I am! It's Easter weekend of next year (2003) and it will be a veritable orgy of costuming- panels, discussions, classes, dances, workshops, masquerades. All activities designed with YOU the costumer in mind. To find out all about it, go to: http://www.jennifarse.com/cc2003/ I am your humble Programming Chair and I'd like to petition the list for ideas of what you'd like to see as programming at the convention. Also, I've chatted with several of Youse Guys about participating in various aspects (Susan Eanes!) and after my e-mail crashed last year, I've been trying to reconstruct my contact list. If I've contacted you in the past, and you haven't heard from me personally in awhile, please contact me soon so I can get you slated into the programming track. I know that a number of h-costumers are planning on attending- I'll use them shamelessly to get everyone else interested in coming too- the list includes: The Fabulous Teddy The Equally Fabulous, But Not Nearly As Orange, Tom Melanie Wilson Drea Leed Stephen Bergdahl Angela Kovatch Here's hoping for lots of great ideas and to see many of you there! Karen Bergquist Programming Chair CC21 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 14:28:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29048 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:28:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DIU2bD029162; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DIU0l04810; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (smtp.netins.net [167.142.225.203]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DITXl04520 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:29:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [167.142.12.92] (HELO hppav) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 131343678 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:29:32 -0500 Message-ID: <018101c25b53$9a84c1c0$5c0c8ea7@hppav> From: "Land of Oz" To: References: <20020913101054.740.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] fabric identity Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:30:14 -0500 Status: RO Hi all, I hope someone will recognize this brand mark and be able to tell me something about some fabric I bought at a second hand shop. I haven't done any testing on it yet, but it appears to be a fine suit-weight wool, 56 inches wide. It's firmly woven twill with a colored band of red and gold woven into the selvages that says EXTRA STRONG at intervals. Printed on the reverse (if the words are printed on the "right" side) is an emblem. I don't know all the proper heraldry descriptions--but I'll try to describe it. A wreath of leaves, each sheaf a different kind, both with red dots (berries?); within this is a shield divided into quarters. The upper left has a K, the upper right has a crown with 3 dots below it, the lower right has a 2, the lower left I can't make out--it might be a snake? Below all this is a banner that says Registered Trade Mark. The whole thing is printed in white and red. Does this tell anyone anything? Thanks Denise landofoz@netins.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 17:30:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30341 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DLW7bD014861; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:32:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DLW0l17070; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DLV6l16519 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:31:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.102]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H2E00AKCBRTUM@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:31:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF In-reply-to: <133901c25b00$9b4d3090$6ac8010a@mail2world.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020913140534.00cce210@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:08:18 -0700 Status: RO Britex is pricey, but it's the best we have up here. General Bead is good, for beads, antique sequins, etc. The Jessica McClintock outlet has last seasons' dress appliques, usually at like 5/$1. And there are many discount places. Would you like a local tour-guide (hint, hint)? >Oh, oh, can people please let me know what's exciting in the textiley line >in San Francisco as well, as I'm going at the end of October. > >Please? > >Freyalyn > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters. > From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage >has the scoop on what matters most to you. > ><-----Original Message-----> > > > > From: Stephen Bergdahl > > Sent: 9/12/2002 11:48:03 PM > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA > > > > > > Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some > > recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage > > to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome. > > -- > > Stephen Bergdahl > > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm > > > > Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid > > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html > > > > Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com > > Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings > > Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > . > > Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 18:06:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30471 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:06:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DM82bD019453; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DM80l08438; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.49]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DM7Ql08118 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:07:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.142.64.3]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020913220721.XEVY5139.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 22:07:21 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020913150031.00a42de0@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <20020913180013.17415.73048.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Going to LA Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:07:03 -0700 Status: RO The simplest thing to do is to to the intersection of 9th and Maple in downtown Los Angeles, park as close as you can, then get out and start walking in any of 4 directions. Everything you could possibly want is within about 1 block in every direction from that intersection. South of 9th on Maple you have two Michael Levine stores - one is fashion fabrics and the other is home dec fabrics (915-917 S Maple). To the east of Maple, on 9th street, is shop after shop of fabric, all of similar quality. My favorite is (as someone else mentioned) as store called Kashkool. They have a surprisingly large selection, some fascinating trims and lots of pleasant, helpful staff. North of 9th on Maple are several trim stores with amazing prices. For example, a trim that I saw at JoAnn's for $20 a yard was about $2 a yard. Bohemian Crystal is just a bit further up the street (need a foot-long teardrop Austrian crystal? theyv'e got it!) Best thing you can do is make up a list, or at least have a series of priorities in your head, and then put on your sturdiest walking shoes and start exploring. Have fun! Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 18:16:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30514 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:16:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DMI2bD020146; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DMI1l13455; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DMHHl13112 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:17:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AngelaFLazear (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g8DMHGQp460788 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:17:17 -0400 Message-ID: <017f01c25b73$42c02310$140010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Angela Lazear-CRC" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020913140534.00cce210@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:16:51 -0700 Status: RO Britex is WAY WAY pricey. What about Discount Fabrics in SF? It's a wonderful outlet at Discount Fabrics 501 3rd Street, San Francisco, CA 94107 (415) 495-4201 Unless of course, you are indepently wealthy and money is no issue ;) angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF > Britex is pricey, but it's the best we have up here. General Bead is good, > for beads, antique sequins, etc. The Jessica McClintock outlet has last > seasons' dress appliques, usually at like 5/$1. And there are many > discount places. Would you like a local tour-guide (hint, hint)? > > >Oh, oh, can people please let me know what's exciting in the textiley line > >in San Francisco as well, as I'm going at the end of October. > > > >Please? > > > >Freyalyn > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ > >Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters. > > From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage > >has the scoop on what matters most to you. > > > ><-----Original Message-----> > > > > > > From: Stephen Bergdahl > > > Sent: 9/12/2002 11:48:03 PM > > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > > Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA > > > > > > > > > Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some > > > recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage > > > to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome. > > > -- > > > Stephen Bergdahl > > > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm > > > > > > Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid > > > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html > > > > > > Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com > > > Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings > > > Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > . > > > > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 18:24:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30540 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DMQ2bD020640; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DMQ1l16248; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out019.verizon.net (out019pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.98]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DMP2l15437 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.136.254]) by out019.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20020913222212.VNQS9549.out019.verizon.net@default> for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:22:12 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020913221433.006f4c58@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Going to LA Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:14:33 -0400 Status: RO At 03:07 PM 9/13/02 -0700, you wrote: >The simplest thing to do is to to the intersection of 9th and Maple in >downtown Los Angeles, park as close as you can, then get out and start >walking in any of 4 directions. Everything you could possibly want is >within about 1 block in every direction from that intersection. > >South of 9th on Maple you have two Michael Levine stores - one is fashion >fabrics and the other is home dec fabrics (915-917 S Maple). > >To the east of Maple, on 9th street, is shop after shop of fabric, all of >similar quality. My favorite is (as someone else mentioned) as store called >Kashkool. They have a surprisingly large selection, some fascinating trims >and lots of pleasant, helpful staff. > >North of 9th on Maple are several trim stores with amazing prices. For >example, a trim that I saw at JoAnn's for $20 a yard was about $2 a yard. >Bohemian Crystal is just a bit further up the street (need a foot-long >teardrop Austrian crystal? theyv'e got it!) > >Best thing you can do is make up a list, or at least have a series of >priorities in your head, and then put on your sturdiest walking shoes and >start exploring. > >Have fun! > >Julie If you have a business, or wholesalerss, or reseller's license or whatever they call it where you are from, then bring it with you. It will get you discounts in some places, and entrance into others. One of the best, if you like wools (I do) is B. Black and Sons. I remain, far from the district, Ranald Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 19:08:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30730 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:08:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DNA5bD023479; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DNA2l07513; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DN9Vl07277 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:09:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp161.directcon.net [206.170.184.161]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g8DN9JEr032032; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:09:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020913161353.0108a870@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Going to LA In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20020913221433.006f4c58@mail.verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:13:53 -0700 Status: RO If you're going this weekend, you may find that some of the best stores, like Berger's, are closed, since they're Orthodox Jewish, and the Jewish holidays are happening now. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 19:43:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30870 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:43:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DNhPbD025313; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DNhOl20150; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:43:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8CFk8H29792 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 41674 invoked by uid 0); 12 Sep 2002 15:46:07 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 15:46:07 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advice on medieval "look" -- pls reply privately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020912114315.L96198-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sounds like a gored gown pattern of a soft knit jersey would do the trick. The jersey stretches enough to accomodate a couple of sizes, doesn't wrinkle very easily, and the pattern is pretty basic--I've seen several of patterns like this from Simplicity & Butterick. If you wanted something even simpler, a cyclas or surcoat would also work. Drea On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 sheilabb@earthlink.net wrote: > Please reply to sheilabb@earthlink.net > > > > Dear Friends, > > I'm thrilled that our Italian musical tour this year will include a > performance of Hildegard von Bingen's "Ordo Virtutem", > the battle between the Devil and the Heavenly Virtues for > Anima (Soul). We have 17 women in the Virtue chorus, > and as we don't always have the same personnel from year > to year, we can't afford (nor can they!) to make real period > costumes. > > Our performance "outfits" are basic black -- black sweaters, > shirts, skirts, pants, whatever, just no jeans -- and I'm trying > to come up with something that can go over the "basic black" > that would *suggest* something medieval-ish (Hildegard is > late 11th c German). The issues here are not authenticity of > fabric or accuracy (gasp) of design. I just need something > reasonably easy and not very fitted to make for 17 women > (in a variety of figures!) that will be easy to get in and out of, > easy to pack in a suitcase and won't get too wrinkled so it > will still look good for the 12 days we're there in February... > > I'm overwhelmed with things in other parts of my life and > will not see a reply here, so please offer your advice and > share your wisdom by replying to me at sheilabb@earthlink.net > > Hoping for some great ideas and tips! > > Sheila B > > Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilabb@earthlink.net > > http://www.earlymusicboston.com > for New England Early Music CALENDAR & BRS-West > > 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 > VOX 978/263.9926 FAX 978/263.2366 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 19:43:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30874 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:43:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DNh1bD025270; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DNh0l19965; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8BINZw28099 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:23:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 16793 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 2002 18:23:34 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 18:23:34 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: Historic Costume List Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need wool washing help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020911133018.R58967-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I've heard that massaging hair conditioner into wool garments helps them to stretch somewhat. Of course, this would involve stretching by hand. Perhaps you could get some of those strips with the nails in them that carpet layers use and stretch the wool across that. Good luck! Drea On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Robin Netherton wrote: > > I've been going through my fabric stash (look for some items for sale > soon!) and I am now facing a sizable box of my wool "experiments." These > were fabrics I washed, fulled, and/or dyed that didn't come out as well as > I'd like. Now, if the wool isn't going to wash up, I'm glad to find that > out *before* I make it into a garment. But that does leave me with some > sad remains. > > So, I'm wondering if any of the wool experts on this list have any > suggestions on how I might salvage these pieces. The chief problem I have > is when the wool seems to be shrinking or pulling unevenly. I'm used to > seeing the body of the fabric shrink more than the selvedges (which end up > rippling a bit), but the problem comes when the effect seems to happen all > over, unevenly. I'm not getting a lot of pilling, and the color is fine. > It's just the weave is rippling or pulling irregularly all over. I also > sometimes get a rough surface (on worsteds) or a crepey one (on woolens), > even when the original was very smooth. Ironing doesn't help. > > Is there a trick I can use to improve this already-ruined pieces -- a > particular washing agent, or a way of washing or drying that would even > out the weave/shrinkage/surface? > > These are usually large pieces -- many yards -- so I can't, say, stretch > them out by hand. > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 19:44:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30879 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DNhYbD025345; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DNhYl20238; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DMrSl29922 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:53:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AngelaFLazear (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g8DMrQQp064052 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:53:27 -0400 Message-ID: <019a01c25b78$50272120$140010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Angela Lazear" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0197_01C25B3D.A379B3F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:53:01 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0197_01C25B3D.A379B3F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2100488576&rd=3D1 This is the url for a dress from about 1835-1845 which is going for a = pretty good price. I was outbid, but it's not really my era. I prefer = 20s - 30s vintage, but when I realized the dealer had no idea what he = had I felt bad so I let him know. Anyway, it's still a steal and looks = to be in good shape. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbabe Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none:=20 be able for thine enemy rather in power than use,=20 and keep thy friend under thy own life's key:=20 be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com ------=_NextPart_000_0197_01C25B3D.A379B3F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2= 100488576&rd=3D1
 
This is the url for a dress from about = 1835-1845=20 which is going for a pretty good price.  I was outbid, but it's not = really=20 my era.  I prefer 20s - 30s vintage, but when I realized the dealer = had no=20 idea what he had I felt bad so I let him know.  Anyway, it's still = a steal=20 and looks to be in good shape.
 
angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbabe = Rose=20 Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
"Love all, trust a few, do = wrong to=20 none:
be able for thine enemy rather in power than use,
and keep = thy=20 friend under thy own life's key:
be checked for silence, but never = taxed for=20 speech..."
W. Shakespeare
http://www.cabbagerosecostume= s.com
------=_NextPart_000_0197_01C25B3D.A379B3F0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 19:44:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30884 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:44:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8DNhUbD025329; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:43:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8DNhTl20200; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail1.siscom.net [209.251.2.99]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8DDVqo25019 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 33454 invoked by uid 0); 13 Sep 2002 13:31:52 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 13 Sep 2002 13:31:52 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20020913092855.Q32607-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] New blackwork patterns webpage Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO To all you blackwork junkies out there: I've just finished webifying a friend's blackwork patterns. Claudette Ziemann has rendered over 200 patterns from period sources, for bands and fillwork, from Italian, English & German sources. And I thought /I/ was busy... :) They're online at http://costume.dm.net/blackwork Enjoy! Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 20:07:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31002 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:07:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8E092bD026699; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E091l28287; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E081l27952 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.148] (pm5-148.eos.net [205.133.149.148]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02658 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:07:55 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020913180013.17415.73048.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: CostumeCon21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:06:22 -0400 Status: RO Karen: It sounds fabulous! But why did you pick Easter weekend? I can't be the only one whose family expects her to be with the.! In my family, missing Easter is a crime. And I could actually get to Chicago, too! Gail Finke :-( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 22:33:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31803 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 22:33:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8E2ZAbD003024; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E2Z1l09332; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E2Yol09272 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a228.in-tch.com [66.62.107.28]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8E2KAr03581 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D82A1BA.83CBD4B0@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Hey, everybody, I'm home again! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:40:58 -0600 Status: RO I made it home last night about midnight (after 18-odd hours in airplanes), and now I'm experiencing the Joys of JetLag (tm). I missed all of you! It was just wonderful getting to meet Teddy (who was *exactly* the same in person as he is in emails--irreverent, funny, brightly colored ) and Tom, although, darnit guys, Jane and I forgot to get a picture of you.... (heh, heh....Teddy brought the Infamous Photo Album....wow!) Nicole, I'm really sorry I didn't get to Canterbury to even say hello, although I kinda waved in your direction . I sure thought of you, though, every time I saw some gorgeous Restoration-era garment or painting (you'd *LOVE* the stuff in the Costume Museum in Bath!!!) Penny, you would have loved it, too...I thought of you especially, as they were showing, in honor of Her Majesty's 50th Anniversary on the throne, a special display of some of her gowns. And I got to drool all over this amazing display of Elizabethan/Stuart shirts and gloves and women's informal jackets, a couple of which I'd never seen before. They also had an 18th c. pair of stays on display, and a couple of stomachers, and some lovely 18th c. gowns, and lace, and, and...... *sigh*.... I'm already making plans to go back! Talk to you all again, when I'm more caught up on my sleep (I'm still running on Dublin time, which is 7 hours ahead of Montana time...groan!) --Sue, who now has the Most Amazing Collection of Costume-Related books! (woo-hoo!!!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 23:26:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31990 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:26:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8E3S5bD004918; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E3S1l22364; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12008.mail.yahoo.com (web12008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.216]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8E3RQl22235 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020914032726.59473.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.209] by web12008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:27:26 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Museum of London Textile and Clothing book? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Me again, Thanks for all the list and private mail about stripping the linen. I don't think I'll mess with the stripping anymore as I found several short remnant lenghts of linen for my shift. Any ideas on which hemstitching or drawn thread work to use to piece the lengths together to make them long enough for the shift. Where, pray tell, can I get the Museum of London Textile and Clothing book here in the US. Ditto some of the other interesting looking books from the MoL? Amazon lists them but wishes me to order them through their UK site. I'd rather get them here in the states in the hopes that they won't be too battered in the shipping if someone gets them by the box, not the single book padded envelope. Thanks. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 23:32:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32023 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:32:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8E3Y2bD005200; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E3Y0l23753; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E3Xvl23738 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.14e.13fe21ff (3972) for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:33:47 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <14e.13fe21ff.2ab4081b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum of London Textile and Clothing book? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14e.13fe21ff.2ab4081b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10581 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:33:47 EDT Status: RO --part1_14e.13fe21ff.2ab4081b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try http://medievalbookstore.com/. Janet is an SCA Merchant and I know she carries the book. If she does not have it on her website (I know she has it in stock), write her a note. Elisabeth --part1_14e.13fe21ff.2ab4081b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try http://medievalbookstore.com/.  Janet is an SCA Merchant and I know she carries the book.  If she does not have it on her website (I know she has it in stock), write her a note.
Elisabeth --part1_14e.13fe21ff.2ab4081b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Sep 13 23:53:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32067 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:53:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8E3t4bD005918; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E3t1l28652; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E3sYl28544 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20926 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2002 03:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.241.146]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 14 Sep 2002 03:54:33 -0000 Message-ID: <008401c25ba2$40008280$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: <20020914032726.59473.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum of London Textile and Clothing book? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:53:13 -0400 Status: RO One of the others that carries the book is www.poisonpenpress.com Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cascio Michael" To: Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 11:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] Museum of London Textile and Clothing book? > Me again, > Thanks for all the list and private mail about > stripping the linen. I don't think I'll mess with the > stripping anymore as I found several short remnant > lenghts of linen for my shift. Any ideas on which > hemstitching or drawn thread work to use to piece the > lengths together to make them long enough for the > shift. > Where, pray tell, can I get the Museum of London > Textile and Clothing book here in the US. Ditto some > of the other interesting looking books from the MoL? > Amazon lists them but wishes me to order them through > their UK site. I'd rather get them here in the states > in the hopes that they won't be too battered in the > shipping if someone gets them by the box, not the > single book padded envelope. Thanks. > Cassandra > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! News - Today's headlines > http://news.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 01:09:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32276 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 01:09:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8E5BBbD008380; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E5B0l16869; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E5ABl16721 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:10:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpuqN0PdWUR34pUhJy9lbM0CWuGEtxbCRg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id HCM32FNZ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 01:09:17 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CostumeCon21 Message-ID: <20020914.000725.-761573.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,8-9 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:07:25 -0500 Status: RO I'm not the one who picked it! CostumeCon is traditionally held in the Spring and hotels are easy to book over Easter weekend as most folks aren't getting married or having business stuff then......for obvious reasons. It's the same reason MiniCon was held that weekend for many, many years- guaranteed hotel space. For our Jewish costuming friends, the Con is being held in Skokie a suburb of Chciago, and it's very, very Jewish! There will be absolutely no problem in getting Passover appropriate foods. Pass the matzos! Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 02:34:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA20178 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 02:34:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8E6a6bD010752; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E6a0l04034; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E6ZPl03897 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.108.128]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALD88887; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 07:33:52 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <019601c25bb9$5d719f40$60774ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20020914032726.59473.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum of London Textile and Clothing book? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 07:38:40 +0100 Status: RO >Textile and Clothing book here in the US. Ditto some of the other interesting looking books from the MoL? Amazon lists them but wishes me to order them through their UK site. I buy tons of boks from the US & all arrive fine :) I'm sure vice cersa is no problem Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 05:46:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22824 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 05:46:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8E9m7bD016214; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 03:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8E9m0l07440; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 03:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8E9l8l07332 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 03:47:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020914094708.81885.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:47:08 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork patterns: thank you! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:47:08 +0100 (BST) Status: RO These patterns are fantastic! Thank you so much Bronwen, for all the work. Though I don't do blackwork (wasn't done anymore in my period *pout*) I love drooling over the patterns. Nicole - happy ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 07:35:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23234 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 07:34:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EBaPbD018316; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 05:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EBa1l29846; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 05:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EBZwl29825 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 05:35:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.102]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H2F00MQFEVWS6@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 04:35:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL In-reply-to: <019a01c25b78$50272120$140010ac@AngelaFLazear> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020914043450.00c89920@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 04:35:33 -0700 Status: RO Angela Lazear writes, in a message sent 03:53 PM 9/13/02 -0700: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2100488576&rd=1 > >This is the url for a dress from about 1835-1845 which is going for a >pretty good price. I was outbid, but it's not really my era. I prefer >20s - 30s vintage, but when I realized the dealer had no idea what he had >I felt bad so I let him know. Anyway, it's still a steal and looks to be >in good shape. More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the sleeves was added later. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 10:02:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23662 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:02:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EE4GbD021491; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EE43l29195; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EE32l28995 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homebuilt (dialup-65.58.235.224.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [65.58.235.224]) by pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g8EE2xIZ227302 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:03:00 -0400 Message-ID: <009301c25c5c$d60391e0$e0eb3a41@homebuilt> From: "Heather Cutler" To: References: <8C04822546@mdx-rf-s1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:48:31 -0400 Status: RO Now that I've found out what they mean by "cut" velvet, I realize is probably was, but I can't find velvet in that pattern, and was trying to figure out how to get the look. Maybe I'll try appliqueing strips of velvet onto a shorter pile and see if I can get it to work. Moira > > > Well, it was worth a try. There is a child's gown in Patterns of > > Fashion that has the velvet cut in a kind of lattice pattern, and that > > was what I was hoping to copy. I may just have to experiment when I > > get the time. ;-) Moira > > Wasn't the fabric *made* liek that, by the weavers, rather than > having that done to it afterwards? > > > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 10:05:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23673 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:05:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EE7HbD021624; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:07:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EE7Gl29915; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EE34l29006 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homebuilt (dialup-65.58.235.224.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net [65.58.235.224]) by pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g8EE2xIb227302 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:03:01 -0400 Message-ID: <009401c25c5c$d6ee8e20$e0eb3a41@homebuilt> From: "Heather Cutler" To: References: <007501c255e2$8deec300$3d4d063e@dan> <001f01c255e7$b7010960$55513b41@momdad> <000c01c2576b$d2cc0b60$665183d1@rmitchellras> <004501c25802$8e97ff20$09cfd03f@momdad> <000801c25809$6cf76de0$d4427ad5@dan> <000801c258dd$f3ece300$cc1fd03f@homebuilt> <003601c2591e$6f06c200$842caf40@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:55:01 -0400 Status: RO Sounds good- just realize that my life is a bit insane right now, and I may not be able to try for a while. ;-{ Moira > If you do, please pass along instructions. Even trial and error that you are > not entirely happy with could be useful to the list. I am DYING to try some > new techniques on some velvets I bought for Italian Renn pieces. > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > > Theatrical Costume Design > "O! Swear not by the moon, the inconstant moon, > That monthly changes in her circled orb, > Lest that thy love prove likewise variable." > Romeo & Juliet, II, ii - W. Shakespeare > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Cutler" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:23 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] ornamentation of velvet wrap > > > > It is very beautiful. Maybe I'll try the burnout method on a small piece > > and see if I can get it right. ;-) > > Moira > > > > > > > > > > There were a number of ways of achieving this look back in the > > > Renaissance period, but unfortunately those skills have long been > > > lost. I would think that "burn-out" using chemicals and a silk backed > > > velvet is the closest you are going to get nowadays. It is beautiful, > > > isn't it! > > > > > > best wishes > > > Stevie > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 10:51:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23857 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:51:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EErBbD023165; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EEr0l11062; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EEq2l10832 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.10e.174b1eb9 (25508) for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:51:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <10e.174b1eb9.2ab4a70a@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Subject: [h-cost] Item on Ebay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:51:54 EDT Status: RO Greetings All! A friend of mine is considering bidding on something on e-bay, I was wondering if anyone could give me an opinion. What do you think? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1767202745 Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 12:48:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24247 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:48:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EGnjbD027674; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EGl0M11376; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EGknM11315 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 207-172-90-35.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([207.172.90.35] helo=megan2) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17qG4E-00016e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:46:46 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <20020912144803.2559.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:56:16 -0400 Status: RO Does anyone in the US have some of the Wissner plastic whalebone to spare? I've used only the metal stuff so far, but have been intrigued by this stuff, but certainly don't need 200 meters of it just to try it out- just enough for a corset or two. Maybe about 10 meters or so? -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 13:13:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24378 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:13:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EHEQB8028676; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 11:14:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EHBfM18502; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 11:11:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EH7lM17378 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 11:07:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWnYIvKnAj7kJ4FCdQNUKhSfU2dHu8Yoz+Q=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id HCPC5JZC; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:07:30 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Item on Ebay Message-ID: <20020914.130522.-246293.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:05:21 -0400 Status: RO I sure as heck wouldn't make it for 125.00. But of course that is only the opening bid and it will surely go higher. I would recommend that your friend wait until the last day to bid though. Anyhow, it looks and sounds good to me. If it isn't perfectly accurate in every detail and fabric, it is better than any of the stuff in catalogs. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 13:24:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24430 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EHQ1B8029263; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 11:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EHQ0M22261; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 11:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EHPWM22161 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 11:25:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-45-209.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.45.209]) by pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g8EHPVQn529450 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:25:31 -0400 Message-ID: <002001c25c13$e3618bb0$d12daf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020914043450.00c89920@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:26:39 -0700 Status: RO "More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the sleeves was added later." Ok, that's interesting. Why do you think so? I didn't go back and re-read my data, and this isn't my era per se. Is it the sleeve shave? I know the dropped armsceye was 1830s, and (I can't see it on anyone, so don't know how tight the bodice is) the trim lines seemed earlier. What specifically places it later that jumps out at you? thanks angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL > Angela Lazear writes, in a message sent 03:53 PM 9/13/02 -0700: > >http:// cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2100488576&rd=1 > > > >This is the url for a dress from about 1835-1845 which is going for a > >pretty good price. I was outbid, but it's not really my era. I prefer > >20s - 30s vintage, but when I realized the dealer had no idea what he had > >I felt bad so I let him know. Anyway, it's still a steal and looks to be > >in good shape. > > > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 15:25:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25525 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:25:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EJPKB8004442; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EJP1M25151; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EJONM24944 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:24:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.60.25f96412 (17526) for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:24:08 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <60.25f96412.2ab4e6d7@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_60.25f96412.2ab4e6d7_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:24:07 EDT Status: RO --part1_60.25f96412.2ab4e6d7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/14/2002 1:26:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes: > "More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the sleeves was added > later." > > Ok, that's interesting. Why do you think so? I didn't go back and re-read > my data, and this isn't my era per se. Is it the sleeve shave? You mean "shape" obviously and yes, that's the key! How smart and observant you are. That "bell sleeve" is an 1850s forerunner of the pagoda sleeve of the 1860s. Of course I think one can see the bell start happening in the late late 1840s and still see it lingering in the early 1860s. The "double darted" fronts tend to push it towards the 1850s as well. Though they do this in the 1830s, it's sorta "dur rigor" by the late 40s. --part1_60.25f96412.2ab4e6d7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/14/2002 1:26:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes:


"More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the sleeves was added
later."

Ok, that's interesting. Why do you think so?  I didn't go back and re-read
my data, and this isn't my era per se.  Is it the sleeve shave?


You mean "shape" obviously and yes, that's the key! How smart and observant you are. That "bell sleeve" is an 1850s forerunner of the pagoda sleeve of the 1860s. Of course I think one can see the bell start happening in the late late 1840s and still see it lingering in the early 1860s.

The "double darted" fronts tend to push it towards the 1850s as well. Though they do this in the 1830s, it's sorta "dur rigor" by the late 40s. --part1_60.25f96412.2ab4e6d7_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 15:39:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25662 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:39:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EJf1B8005037; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EJf0M00270; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EJeQM29902 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:40:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020914194021.VIPY26805.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:40:21 +0000 Message-ID: <006a01c25c26$8ee06b20$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01C25BEB.E09182F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Shameless ebay plug Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:40:16 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C25BEB.E09182F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I've listed a few books and patterns on ebay that might be of interest = to people on this list, including: - Art of Dress by Jane Ashelford - From Queen to Empress (exhibit catalog 1837-77) - Rise & Fall of the Sleeve (exhibit catalog 1820's - 1830's) - Maine Women & Fashion (exhibit catalog 1800-1840) - Period Impressions 1770 Polonaise Pattern (sizes 18-20-22) If you're interested, you can search for seller "tweedlebop" or click = on: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=3D= tweedlebop&completed=3D0&sort=3D3&since=3D-1&include=3D0&page=3D1&rows=3D= 25 Thanks, Kendra ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C25BEB.E09182F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
 
I've listed a few books and patterns on = ebay that=20 might be of interest to people on this list, including:
 
- Art of Dress by Jane = Ashelford
- From Queen to Empress (exhibit = catalog=20 1837-77)
- Rise & Fall of the Sleeve = (exhibit catalog=20 1820's - 1830's)
- Maine Women & Fashion (exhibit = catalog=20 1800-1840)
- Period Impressions 1770 Polonaise = Pattern (sizes=20 18-20-22)
 
If you're interested, you can search = for seller=20 "tweedlebop" or click on:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayI= SAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=3Dtweedlebop&completed=3D0&= amp;sort=3D3&since=3D-1&include=3D0&page=3D1&rows=3D25
 
Thanks,
 
Kendra
 
------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C25BEB.E09182F0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 16:39:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26004 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:39:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EKf8B8007265; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:41:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EKf0M14360; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EKeoM14325 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-45-209.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.45.209]) by pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g8EKemIZ401382 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:40:48 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c25c2f$2c15f510$d12daf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <60.25f96412.2ab4e6d7@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C25BF4.7F0929D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:41:58 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C25BF4.7F0929D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, that makes total sense. I was looking at the armscye and didn't = really stop to take in that the sleeve (yeah shape, ouch, typo!) shape = was opening. If I remember my study correctly 1935 would have been very = very tight to the arm, right? =20 I think the history of clothes and the progression of style is = absolutely fascinating.=20 angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes=20 http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AlbertCat@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL In a message dated 9/14/2002 1:26:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes:=20 "More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the sleeves was = added=20 later."=20 Ok, that's interesting. Why do you think so? I didn't go back and = re-read=20 my data, and this isn't my era per se. Is it the sleeve shave?=20 You mean "shape" obviously and yes, that's the key! How smart and = observant you are. That "bell sleeve" is an 1850s forerunner of the = pagoda sleeve of the 1860s. Of course I think one can see the bell start = happening in the late late 1840s and still see it lingering in the early = 1860s.=20 The "double darted" fronts tend to push it towards the 1850s as well. = Though they do this in the 1830s, it's sorta "dur rigor" by the late = 40s.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C25BF4.7F0929D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, that makes total sense. I was = looking at the=20 armscye and didn't really stop to take in that the sleeve (yeah shape, = ouch,=20 typo!) shape was opening.  If I remember my study correctly 1935 = would have=20 been very very tight to the arm, right? 
 
I think the history of clothes and the = progression=20 of style is absolutely fascinating.
 
angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage = Rose Costumes=20
http://www.cabbagerosecostume= s.com
Theatrical=20 Costume Design
"If we shadows have offended, think but = this,
 and all=20 is mended,
That you have but slumbered here,
 while these = visions did=20 appear."
A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. = Shakespeare
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 AlbertCat@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 14, = 2002 12:24=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s = dress on=20 Ebay-DEAL

In a = message dated=20 9/14/2002 1:26:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net = writes:=20


"More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the = sleeves was=20 added
later."

Ok, that's interesting. Why do you think = so?=20  I didn't go back and re-read
my data, and this isn't my = era per=20 se.  Is it the sleeve shave?

You mean "shape"=20 obviously and yes, that's the key! How smart and observant you are. = That "bell=20 sleeve" is an 1850s forerunner of the pagoda sleeve of the 1860s. Of = course I=20 think one can see the bell start happening in the late late 1840s and = still=20 see it lingering in the early 1860s.

The "double darted" = fronts tend=20 to push it towards the 1850s as well. Though they do this in the = 1830s, it's=20 sorta "dur rigor" by the late 40s. = ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C25BF4.7F0929D0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 17:01:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26080 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 17:01:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8EL32B8008049; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EL30M19639; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8EL2cM19520 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A3E285540154; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 17:02:26 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c25c32$5ad31ba0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020914043450.00c89920@mail.frys.com> <002001c25c13$e3618bb0$d12daf40@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:58:17 -0400 Status: RO I do agree that the lace is probably a later addition and perhaps very recent, although it appears to be vintage lace (1890's?). I say recent because the aesthestic of the Victorian mode as expressed in the late twentieth century seems evident. The width and volume of the flounce is greater than you usually find even in the 1890's. And the lace is wrong for the 1860's, at least from examples of garments or even photos in my collections. I would question the later date of the garment because I have a very similar one in comparable condition that is documented for 1843-45. The bodice style and shape is reliable for that decade., and the fullness of the skirt also looks correct. The 'interesting buttons' were also add-ons. Their apparent style is almost nouveau and unlike antiques appropriate to pre civil war buttons. Also, I have never seen them used in that manner for dress trim of that earlier period. ----- Original Message ----- Kathleen From: "Cabbage Rose" To: Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL > "More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the sleeves was added > later." > > Ok, that's interesting. Why do you think so? I didn't go back and re-read > my data, and this isn't my era per se. Is it the sleeve shave? I know the > dropped armsceye was 1830s, and (I can't see it on anyone, so don't know how > tight the bodice is) the trim lines seemed earlier. What specifically > places it later that jumps out at you? > > thanks > > angela > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL > > > > Angela Lazear writes, in a message sent 03:53 PM 9/13/02 -0700: > > > >http:// > cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2100488576&rd=1 > > > > > >This is the url for a dress from about 1835-1845 which is going for a > > >pretty good price. I was outbid, but it's not really my era. I prefer > > >20s - 30s vintage, but when I realized the dealer had no idea what he had > > >I felt bad so I let him know. Anyway, it's still a steal and looks to be > > >in good shape. > > > > > > > > > Kayta > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 17:09:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26126 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 17:09:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8ELB9B8008333; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ELB0M21635; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ELAXM21524 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 1cust222.tnt2.st-louis.mo.da.uu.net ([65.239.185.222] helo=hppav) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17qKBT-0002VI-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 17:10:32 -0400 Message-ID: <004901c25c33$79b83cc0$deb9ef41@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Subject: [h-cost] Costume Con 21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:12:44 -0500 Status: RO That's why St Louis did it on Palm Sunday Weekend for CC16. One week before Easter. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 18:10:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26410 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:10:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8ELb4B8009951; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ELb1M28173; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8ELaUM28058 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:36:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.102]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H2G009GL6OTZ6@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:36:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL In-reply-to: <002001c25c13$e3618bb0$d12daf40@angelap3a8d978> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020914140739.00c88470@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020914043450.00c89920@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:25:21 -0700 Status: RO >"More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the sleeves was added >later." > >Ok, that's interesting. Why do you think so? I didn't go back and re-read >my data, and this isn't my era per se. Is it the sleeve shave? I know the >dropped armsceye was 1830s, and (I can't see it on anyone, so don't know how >tight the bodice is) the trim lines seemed earlier. What specifically >places it later that jumps out at you? 1830s sleeves tend to be wide at the upper arm and close-fitting at the wrist. 1850s-60s sleeves tend to be close at the upper arm and bell out at the lower arm, not extending all the way to the wrist, as shown in the image. 1830s necklines are likely to be wider than this neckline, especially in mid decade, when the neckline sometimes widens almost to the shoulders. The neckline on this example, and especially the front trimming, looks very much like 1850s-60s examples I have seen. 1830s fabric tends to be lighter-coloured and in floral stripes. 1850s-60s fabric is often darker and a different stripe, like the garment shown (I have seen other extant examples of this sort of stripe in 1950s-60s garments). Real 1850s-60s lace tends to be compulsively handworky and delicate, tending to broidery Anglaise and eyelet, while this lace looks like 1900-1920 darned net, as well as I could tell from the image on my screen. Also, the lace is sewn right onto the sleeves, rather than being separate under-sleeves which is the usual 1850s-60s practice. This is as tho somebody in the 1900s-1920s used it as a costume. But if, as I assume, the garment is genuine 1850s-60s, the price is still very good. I see such things offered for $300-$500 every once in a while, and people seem to be buying them for those prices. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 20:09:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28026 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 20:09:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8F09DB8015404; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:09:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F091M07248; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.14]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F08pM07188 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:08:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.103]) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 2712226 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 20:08:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <019601c25bb9$5d719f40$60774ed5@pavilion> References: <20020914032726.59473.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> <019601c25bb9$5d719f40$60774ed5@pavilion> To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum of London Textile and Clothing book? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 20:08:42 -0400 Status: RO I've ordered from Amazon UK several times, and they pack really well in my experience- everything's arrived in great shape so far. -Amanda awaiting her most recent order there, including 2 MoL books :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Sep 14 22:03:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30354 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:03:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8F13qB8017607; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:03:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F13pM20414; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:03:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F12aM20011 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-45-209.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.45.209]) by pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g8F12YQn368854 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:02:35 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c25c53$bddeee60$d12daf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020914043450.00c89920@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020914140739.00c88470@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:03:45 -0700 Status: RO Katya, The lace part I had figured out, but the rest is fascinating. I have only studied garments of this period by reading Joan Severa's "Dressed for the Photographer" and that has been 3 years ago. I completely forgot the sleeve detail and was focusing on the bodice, but your details make sense. I should have gone back and double checked, but I was in a rush to let the guy know he had something that appeared to be quite a bit older than he thought. You're right though, the price was still pretty good for the piece, if it is in fact in the condition he describes and without fabric rot. Thanks for taking the time to re-educate me. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL > > >"More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the sleeves was added > >later." > > > >Ok, that's interesting. Why do you think so? I didn't go back and re-read > >my data, and this isn't my era per se. Is it the sleeve shave? I know the > >dropped armsceye was 1830s, and (I can't see it on anyone, so don't know how > >tight the bodice is) the trim lines seemed earlier. What specifically > >places it later that jumps out at you? > > 1830s sleeves tend to be wide at the upper arm and close-fitting at the > wrist. 1850s-60s sleeves tend to be close at the upper arm and bell out at > the lower arm, not extending all the way to the wrist, as shown in the image. > > 1830s necklines are likely to be wider than this neckline, especially in > mid decade, when the neckline sometimes widens almost to the > shoulders. The neckline on this example, and especially the front > trimming, looks very much like 1850s-60s examples I have seen. > > 1830s fabric tends to be lighter-coloured and in floral stripes. 1850s-60s > fabric is often darker and a different stripe, like the garment shown (I > have seen other extant examples of this sort of stripe in 1950s-60s garments). > > Real 1850s-60s lace tends to be compulsively handworky and delicate, > tending to broidery Anglaise and eyelet, while this lace looks like > 1900-1920 darned net, as well as I could tell from the image on my > screen. Also, the lace is sewn right onto the sleeves, rather than being > separate under-sleeves which is the usual 1850s-60s practice. This is as > tho somebody in the 1900s-1920s used it as a costume. > > But if, as I assume, the garment is genuine 1850s-60s, the price is still > very good. I see such things offered for $300-$500 every once in a while, > and people seem to be buying them for those prices. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 04:26:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04123 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:26:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8F8S6B8002371; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F8S1M22782; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F8RNM22652 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f9a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.154]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E5D2263C0F for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:27:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004101c25c92$042995d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <019a01c25b78$50272120$140010ac@AngelaFLazear> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01C25CA2.C76AD580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:29:31 +0200 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C25CA2.C76AD580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello. Thanks for sharing that. The lace wich is attached to the skirt must be = a buckinghamshire lace. Very beautifull. Thanks=20 Bjarne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Angela Lazear=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 12:53 AM Subject: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2100488576&rd=3D1 This is the url for a dress from about 1835-1845 which is going for a = pretty good price. I was outbid, but it's not really my era. I prefer = 20s - 30s vintage, but when I realized the dealer had no idea what he = had I felt bad so I let him know. Anyway, it's still a steal and looks = to be in good shape. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbabe Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none:=20 be able for thine enemy rather in power than use,=20 and keep thy friend under thy own life's key:=20 be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C25CA2.C76AD580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello.
Thanks for sharing that. The lace wich = is attached=20 to the skirt must be a buckinghamshire lace. Very = beautifull.
Thanks
 
Bjarne
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Angela Lazear
Sent: Saturday, September 14, = 2002 12:53=20 AM
Subject: [h-cost] 1830s dress = on=20 Ebay-DEAL

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2= 100488576&rd=3D1
 
This is the url for a dress from = about 1835-1845=20 which is going for a pretty good price.  I was outbid, but it's = not=20 really my era.  I prefer 20s - 30s vintage, but when I realized = the=20 dealer had no idea what he had I felt bad so I let him know.  = Anyway,=20 it's still a steal and looks to be in good shape.
 
angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbabe = Rose=20 Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
"Love all, trust a few, do = wrong to=20 none:
be able for thine enemy rather in power than use,
and = keep thy=20 friend under thy own life's key:
be checked for silence, but never = taxed=20 for speech..."
W. Shakespeare
http://www.cabbagerosecostume= s.com
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C25CA2.C76AD580-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 04:34:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04243 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:34:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8F8a3B8002599; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F8a0M24277; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F8ZRM24176 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:35:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f9a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.154]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 05DE72642CC for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:35:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008001c25c93$25757dc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020914043450.00c89920@mail.frys.com> <002001c25c13$e3618bb0$d12daf40@angelap3a8d978> <001701c25c32$5ad31ba0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:37:37 +0200 Status: RO Hello. I have to disagree with you. This gorgeous lace is a real thing. Probably 1840-50 Buckinghamshire lace. This i say because i make lace myself and i have studied many laces. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL > I do agree that the lace is probably a later addition and perhaps very > recent, although it appears to be vintage lace (1890's?). I say recent > because the aesthestic of the Victorian mode as expressed in the late > twentieth century seems evident. The width and volume of the flounce is > greater than you usually find even in the 1890's. And the lace is wrong for > the 1860's, at least from examples of garments or even photos in my > collections. I would question the later date of the garment because I have > a very similar one in comparable condition that is documented for 1843-45. > The bodice style and shape is reliable for that decade., and the fullness of > the skirt also looks correct. The 'interesting buttons' were also add-ons. > Their apparent style is almost nouveau and unlike antiques appropriate to > pre civil war buttons. Also, I have never seen them used in that manner for > dress trim of that earlier period. > ----- Original Message ----- Kathleen > From: "Cabbage Rose" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 1:26 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL > > > > "More like 1850s-60s, and I suspect that lace on the sleeves was added > > later." > > > > Ok, that's interesting. Why do you think so? I didn't go back and re-read > > my data, and this isn't my era per se. Is it the sleeve shave? I know the > > dropped armsceye was 1830s, and (I can't see it on anyone, so don't know > how > > tight the bodice is) the trim lines seemed earlier. What specifically > > places it later that jumps out at you? > > > > thanks > > > > angela > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 4:35 AM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL > > > > > > > Angela Lazear writes, in a message sent 03:53 PM 9/13/02 -0700: > > > > > > >http:// > > cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2100488576&rd=1 > > > > > > > >This is the url for a dress from about 1835-1845 which is going for a > > > >pretty good price. I was outbid, but it's not really my era. I prefer > > > >20s - 30s vintage, but when I realized the dealer had no idea what he > had > > > >I felt bad so I let him know. Anyway, it's still a steal and looks to > be > > > >in good shape. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kayta > > > > > > //// \\\ > > > ////-@@\\\ > > > (((( 7 ))) > > > ((( <> )))) > > > ) (((((( > > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 04:39:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04311 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:39:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8F8f4B8002738; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F8f1M25189; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F8erM25163 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:40:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f9a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.154]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B14F263242 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:40:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00a601c25c93$e8117000$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020914043450.00c89920@mail.frys.com> <002001c25c13$e3618bb0$d12daf40@angelap3a8d978> <001701c25c32$5ad31ba0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <008001c25c93$25757dc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:43:03 +0200 Status: RO AArgh, sorry, not attached to the skirt, but the sleave off cause!!! Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 05:13:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05087 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 05:13:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8F9FAB8003502; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 03:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F9F2M18644; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 03:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8F9EUM16021 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 03:14:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.102]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H2H008EQ3047J@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:14:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL In-reply-to: <008001c25c93$25757dc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20020915021241.04cfde80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020914043450.00c89920@mail.frys.com> <002001c25c13$e3618bb0$d12daf40@angelap3a8d978> <001701c25c32$5ad31ba0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:14:11 -0700 Status: RO >I have to disagree with you. >This gorgeous lace is a real thing. Probably 1840-50 Buckinghamshire lace. >This i say because i make lace myself and i have studied many laces. All I can tell is what it looks like on my monitor. I can't tell the difference between Buckinghamshire and darned net at this resolution. But I never saw lace attached directly to a cuff on an 1850s dress. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 05:59:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06042 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 05:59:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FA12B8004498; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FA10M08638; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com ([66.210.221.207]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FA0HM08493 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:00:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB129FD00F4; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 05:04:02 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c25c9e$2c6ca120$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] International Copyrights Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 05:56:32 -0400 Status: RO Does anyone know of a URL that will let me know when copyrights expire in European countries and Australian expire? I am stuck with the latest date in the U.S. at 1923. So I am interested in hat year other countries' copyright laws expire. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 06:15:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06352 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 06:15:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FAHCB8004848; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:17:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FAH1M11556; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8FAGXM11473 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:16:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020915101630.95508.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:16:30 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001301c25c9e$2c6ca120$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:16:30 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > Does anyone know of a URL that will let me know when copyrights expire in > European countries and Australian expire? I am stuck with the latest date > in the U.S. at 1923. So I am interested in hat year other countries' > copyright laws expire. I don't know about a site, but the problem is that apparently the last time I spoke to a lawyer there is no such thing as an 'international' copyright law, but individual laws of countries that are very similar though. Furthermore I have always been warned that although a copyright appears to be expried or a copyright holder cannot be found, in 99% of all cases the copyright has been transferred to another. I just spoke to an expert the other week because of the UK Universities' HERON project, regarding electronic publishing of material,which has much stricter rules than the paper publishing in classrooms etc. Actually, the rules are so strict that they make one shiver. Anyway, he said that what sometimes takes months is the tracking down of a current copyright holder, and even though a magazine from 1900 may apperar as if its copyright had expried, it most probably was just transferred. No idea about US stuff though, maybe it is different there, but if you for example took material out of a very old Punch issue, and believed because you bought this issue off a dealer, you could claim that the copyright was yours and ppl have to pay you for it, you are most probably wrong, because the material in the Punch issue would have gone to the heirs of the contribuors or syndicates or follow ups of those, or transferred to the heirs of the owners of Punch. Something like that, this is how I understood it after questioning the gentleman for quite a while, but hey, I may be wrong *laughs* The best is, penny, if you contact a lawyer who specialises in this, otherwise you may get into DEEP trouble, because that's what I have learned from HERON, that actually, the laws are extremely strict (for example if an article that was copyright cleared = payed for, has an image, the image and every other image has to be seperately copyright cleared). I am glad I am not directly responsible for the copyright clearance for my faculty... Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 12:27:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12086 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FGT5B8014822; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FGT1M25288; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FGRvM25019 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsS4AAdKRU0EFU5NZL+1k+M="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id HCRU8LXA; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:27:17 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20020915.092632.-196759.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: [h-cost] Non-scissor alternatives Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 09:24:49 +0000 Status: RO I was in Michael's yesterday and found a thread cutter ring ($6.95) and also a pendent thread cutter ($7.95). Both are made by Clover Manufacturing. Nice if you can't carry scissors on the plane. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 14:39:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13996 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:39:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FIf2B8019473; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FIf0H27114; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FIcuH26592 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H2H00M6NT4Q62@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:38:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D84D42D.6070908@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Finished the Corded Corset c. 1820 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:40:45 -0500 Status: RO I thought I sent this to the list yesterday evening, but it seems to have vanished. I put together a blow-by-blow of my attempt of a corded corset c.1820.. so if you wish to read and view it.. you can find it at http://www.seams-to-be.com/1820.htm I only ask that you be kind in your public comments... :D -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 14:49:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14307 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:49:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FIp1B8019761; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FIp0H29436; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FIoqH29401 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be6d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.109]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CBF2D47FF77 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:50:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c25ce9$2ded7fb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <3D84D42D.6070908@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the Corded Corset c. 1820 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:53:28 +0200 Status: RO Dear Linda. This is very fine work you have done here, congratulations with the beautifull corset. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 8:40 PM Subject: [h-cost] Finished the Corded Corset c. 1820 > I thought I sent this to the list yesterday evening, but it seems to have vanished. > > I put together a blow-by-blow of my attempt of a corded corset c.1820.. so if you wish to > read and view it.. you can find it at > > http://www.seams-to-be.com/1820.htm > I only ask that you be kind in your public comments... :D > -- > Linda Thompson > > Visit www.seams-to-be.com > where Attitude is Everything > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 15:03:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14628 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:03:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FJ51B8020251; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FJ50H03273; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FJ4nH03216 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:04:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be6d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.109]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 82A0C5EFCAF for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:04:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001901c25ceb$210ceb80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Leif Drews" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20020914043450.00c89920@mail.frys.com> <002001c25c13$e3618bb0$d12daf40@angelap3a8d978> <001701c25c32$5ad31ba0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <4.3.1.2.20020915021241.04cfde80@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:07:25 +0200 Status: RO Dear Kayta You are right that it is hard to se exactly because the picture is a low resolution. But it struck me that this flower i have seen many times in buckinghamshire lace. Buckingham uses a thick gimp thread to outline the motifes. For the dress i must admit that i dont know enough, my period's stops with regency. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s dress on Ebay-DEAL > > >I have to disagree with you. > >This gorgeous lace is a real thing. Probably 1840-50 Buckinghamshire lace. > >This i say because i make lace myself and i have studied many laces. > > All I can tell is what it looks like on my monitor. I can't tell the > difference between Buckinghamshire and darned net at this resolution. But > I never saw lace attached directly to a cuff on an 1850s dress. > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 15:04:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14652 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:04:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FJ60B8020289; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FJ60H03539; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FJ5kH03487 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:05:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.126.244]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALE64931; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:04:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ec01c25ceb$5a08eec0$f47e4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3D84D42D.6070908@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the Corded Corset c. 1820 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:09:00 +0100 Status: RO Thanks for sharing the info What is Waisted Efforts ? or where can one get it ? Thanks Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 16:24:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16694 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:24:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FKQ4B8023179; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FKQ0H23692; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8FKPbH23566 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:25:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 30046 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 20:25:37 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 20:25:37 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-125.sonic.net [209.148.112.125]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g8FKPa216761 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:25:36 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D84ECC8.B66DFD12@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights References: <20020915101630.95508.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:25:44 -0700 Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > Does anyone know of a > URL that will let me know when copyrights expire in > > European countries and Australian expire? I am stuck with the latest date > > in the U.S. at 1923. So I am interested in hat year other countries' > > copyright laws expire. > > I don't know about a site Nor do I know of one. > but the problem is that apparently the last time I > spoke to a lawyer there is no such thing as an 'international' copyright law It is true that every country has different copyright laws, and you need to know what these are before reprinting foreign material, as most countries have agreed to respect each other's laws. > Furthermore I > have always been warned that although a copyright appears to be expried or a > copyright holder cannot be found, in 99% of all cases the copyright has been > transferred to another. As far as I know, for most countries there is a date where a work has clearly entered the public domain (the copyright has expired) and it stays there. It is only for works more recent than th this date that you have to worry about such issues as re-registration and transfer of rights. > Anyway, he > said that what sometimes takes months is the tracking down of a current > copyright holder This can be true of a work that is older, but not yet in the public domain. > and even though a magazine from 1900 may apperar as if its > copyright had expried, it most probably was just transferred. If it's passed the expiration date, it's in the public domain. > > No idea about US stuff though, maybe it is different there, but if you for > example took material out of a very old Punch issue, and believed because you > bought this issue off a dealer, you could claim that the copyright was yours > and ppl have to pay you for it No one can acquire the copyright to a work in the public domain. In the US, at least, you can copyright any changes you make to the work. Such as the selection of materials for an anthology, editing of text, editing of illustrations, layout on the page, any new text (such as an introduction, footnotes, or index), translation to another language, etc. > (for example if an article that > was copyright cleared = payed for, has an image, the image and every other > image has to be seperately copyright cleared) Permission to use copyrighted images must be obtained--you can't "borrow" one from a work on the grounds that it's just one illustration. But whether copyright for each image must be obtained from a different person depends on whether the rights for each image are held by different people--which they may or may not be. If the copyrights to the images have expired, of course you don't have to worry about this. Fran > --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 17:50:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25942 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:50:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FLq2B8026040; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FLq0H14245; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8FLpaH14145 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:51:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020915215136.35282.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:51:36 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D84ECC8.B66DFD12@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:51:36 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Lavolta Press wrote: > > It is true that every country has different copyright laws, and you need to > know > what these are before reprinting foreign material, as most countries have > agreed to > respect each other's laws. Perhaps the best way, Penny, for you is to search for each individual country's copyright laws. > As far as I know, for most countries there is a date where a work has clearly > entered the public domain (the copyright has expired) and it stays there. It > is > only for works more recent than th this date that you have to worry about > such > issues as re-registration and transfer of rights. Well, I can only say what he said, but it might well be that he didn't quite understand my request/question. he certainly was rather astonished when I mentioned publications like Hannah Wooley's from 1677, held in the British Library. > > Anyway, he > > said that what sometimes takes months is the tracking down of a current > > copyright holder > > This can be true of a work that is older, but not yet in the public domain. I wish I knew, if this is the case, what the expiration date is. > No one can acquire the copyright to a work in the public domain. In the US, I thought the same, but tehn why do people claim they have it? Don't get me wrong, I think that Penny does GREAT stuff, but I can't understand why she says that the magazines are copyrighted to the costume gallery then on the web pages. I'm just confused. :-) > Permission to use copyrighted images must be obtained--you can't "borrow" one > from > a work on the grounds that it's just one illustration. You can't use the image, if it is not copyrighted by the author/publisher from whom you obtain permission, full stop. Unless the copyright owner of said image has agreed. This goes for image 2, image 3, and so on. If they are all owned by one, fine. If they are owned by several, stress. But whether copyright > for > each image must be obtained from a different person depends on whether the > rights > for each image are held by different people--which they may or may not be. This goes without saying, doesn't it? Yet permission must be obtained for each image that is in the article (for example) > If the > copyrights to the images have expired, of course you don't have to worry > about > this. True. See above. Anyone knows anything about expiration date in the UK? I can ask the library tomorrow. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 17:59:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27249 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:59:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FM11B8026427; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FM10H16668; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FM0mH16642 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:00:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Osmondia@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.10c.17cbf0df (3310) for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:00:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Osmondia@aol.com Message-ID: <10c.17cbf0df.2ab65d08@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10c.17cbf0df.2ab65d08_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:00:40 EDT Status: RO --part1_10c.17cbf0df.2ab65d08_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/15/02 2:53:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > I thought the same, but tehn why do people claim they have it? Don't get me > wrong, I think that Penny does GREAT stuff, but I can't understand why she > says > that the magazines are copyrighted to the costume gallery then on the web > pages. I'm just confused. :-) > > Asked a friend about this who works for a copyright patent lawyer. Here is what she found out...Penny can copyright the format she has, in other words no cut and paste...but the items cannot be recopyrighted. The info she has is not copywrited. What she can copyright is the format she presents it in. And if she is scanning them into the site and not changing the format then she has no copyright. Osmondia --part1_10c.17cbf0df.2ab65d08_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/15/02 2:53:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:


I thought the same, but tehn why do people claim they have it? Don't get me
wrong, I think that Penny does GREAT stuff, but I can't understand why she says
that the magazines are copyrighted to the costume gallery then on the web
pages. I'm just confused. :-)



Asked a friend about this who works for a copyright patent lawyer.  Here is what she found out...Penny can copyright the format she has, in other words no cut and paste...but the items cannot be recopyrighted.  The info she has is not copywrited.  What she can copyright is the format she presents it in.  And if she is scanning them into the site and not changing the format then she has no copyright.

Osmondia --part1_10c.17cbf0df.2ab65d08_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 18:13:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29482 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:13:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FMF3B8026918; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FMF1H20181; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FMECH20005 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.ea.2dcfd1d1 (4568) for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:14:03 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum of London Textile and Clothing book? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ea.2dcfd1d1.2ab6602b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10622 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:14:03 EDT Status: RO --part1_ea.2dcfd1d1.2ab6602b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/13/2002 11:28:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes: > Where, pray tell, can I get the Museum of London > Textile and Clothing book here in the US. Ditto some > of the other interesting looking books from the MoL? > Amazon lists them but wishes me to order them through > their UK site. I'd rather get them here in the states > in the hopes that they won't be too battered in the > shipping if someone gets them by the box, not the > single book padded envelope. Thanks. > I've ordered books both directly from the Museum of the City of London and from Amazon UK and they have all arrived in great condition and surprisingly fast. Ann Wass --part1_ea.2dcfd1d1.2ab6602b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/13/2002 11:28:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes:


Where, pray tell, can I get the Museum of London
Textile and Clothing book here in the US.  Ditto some
of the other interesting looking books from the MoL?
Amazon lists them but wishes me to order them through
their UK site.  I'd rather get them here in the states
in the hopes that they won't be too battered in the
shipping if someone gets them by the box, not the
single book padded envelope.  Thanks.
                                 


I've ordered books both directly from the Museum of the City of London and from Amazon UK and they have all arrived in great condition and surprisingly fast.
Ann Wass --part1_ea.2dcfd1d1.2ab6602b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 18:23:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31213 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:23:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FMP1B8027217; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FMP0H22768; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01bw.bigpond.com (mta01bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.78]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FMO0H22512 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.78]) by mta01bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta01bw May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id H2I3JS00.3JZ for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:23:52 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.193 ([203.54.114.193]) by bwmam04.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 29/18277332); 16 Sep 2002 08:23:35 Message-ID: <3D85F94D.DDF84DBC@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average meters of boning needed for corsets? References: <20020913105050.85691.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:31:25 -0700 Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > Hi All, > > I am completely new to this corset making thing and need you help in averaging > how many meters of boning I would need per corset or bodice. For different > periods, if possible. I am a medium size, well, you saw the pix, a UK 16, or > German 42 and a 38B bust. > I asked for the average meters for Margo's corset pattern on herlist (got that > one at home and am very eager to try it with Teddy's help!) > Does anyone know for a 17th and an 18th c. corset, and even for a 19th c. one > perhaps? It depends a lot on the style of the corset (ie if it has any very long bones in it, or a long point), and how wide the boning is, and whether you will fully bone or half bone it. The corsets I've made (16th, 17th and 18th c) generally use about 12m of boning. I fully bone the front and half bone the back and sides. Usually about half of the 12m goes in the fully boned front. And I'm a bit smaller than you are Nicole. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 18:23:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31214 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:23:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FMP7B8027223; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:25:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FMP7H22808; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:25:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FMOuH22745 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:24:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.80.218b4c44 (4568) for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:24:47 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <80.218b4c44.2ab662af@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_80.218b4c44.2ab662af_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10622 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:24:47 EDT Status: RO --part1_80.218b4c44.2ab662af_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And, Penny, another problem is that other countries don't register copyrights like we do here, so it is much harder to track down. Ann Wass --part1_80.218b4c44.2ab662af_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And, Penny, another problem is that other countries don't register copyrights like we do here, so it is much harder to track down.
Ann Wass --part1_80.218b4c44.2ab662af_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 18:27:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31849 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:27:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FMT1B8027346; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FMT0H23806; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8FMSXH23685 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:28:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20020915222833.43006.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 23:28:33 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <10c.17cbf0df.2ab65d08@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 23:28:33 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Osmondia@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/15/02 2:53:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Asked a friend about this who works for a copyright patent lawyer. Here is > what she found out...Penny can copyright the format she has, in other words > no cut and paste...but the items cannot be recopyrighted. The info she has > is not copywrited. What she can copyright is the format she presents it in. > > And if she is scanning them into the site and not changing the format then > she has no copyright. Fascinating to know, thank you! Glad I did it right on my site, would be a pain to change. :-))) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 19:00:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01460 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:00:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FMx2B8028281; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FMx1H01486; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8FMwGH01288 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:58:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24714 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 22:58:15 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 22:58:15 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-108.sonic.net [209.148.112.108]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g8FMwEB00474 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:58:14 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D85108E.5E7F7E8D@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights References: <20020915215136.35282.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:58:22 -0700 Status: RO > > > > As far as I know, for most countries there is a date where a work has clearly > > entered the public domain (the copyright has expired) and it stays there. It > > is > > only for works more recent than th this date that you have to worry about > > such > > issues as re-registration and transfer of rights. > > Well, I can only say what he said, but it might well be that he didn't quite > understand my request/question. he certainly was rather astonished when I > mentioned publications like Hannah Wooley's from 1677, held in the British > Library. At least in US law, there is another issue that has nothing to do with copyright (works can have protections/restrictions other than or in addition to copyright). Which is, permission to use the physical copy of the work, by the owner. If a library, historical society, or individual lends you a work whose content is in the public domain, but for the purpose of personal reading or research rather than reprinting, then it's not legal for you to reprint from that copy without their permission. The owner has the right to protect their own business interests, if they plan to reprint the work themselves at some point. They have the right to protect their physical copy from activities that may damage it, such as scanning. The bottom line is it's their _copy_, and in lending it to you they essentially license how you can use it. This can be an issue with a rare work, where you can't just go out and buy your own copy off the net. > > > True. See above. Anyone knows anything about expiration date in the UK? I can > ask the library tomorrow. > Here is the URL of the British Library Copyright Office: http://www.bl.uk/services/information/copyright.html and here is the URL of their chart of British copyright duration: http://www.bl.uk/services/information/coptable.html Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 19:02:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01474 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:02:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FN41B8028527; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FN40H03066; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8FN38H02691 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:03:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 25250 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 23:03:08 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 23:03:08 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-108.sonic.net [209.148.112.108]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g8FN37R20273 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:03:07 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3D8511B3.855121FF@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights References: <10c.17cbf0df.2ab65d08@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:03:15 -0700 Status: RO > > > > >> I thought the same, but tehn why do people claim they have it? >> Don't get me >> wrong, I think that Penny does GREAT stuff, but I can't understand >> why she says >> that the magazines are copyrighted to the costume gallery then on >> the web >> pages. I'm just confused. :-) >> > > Asked a friend about this who works for a copyright patent lawyer. > Here is what she found out...Penny can copyright the format she has, > in other words no cut and paste...but the items cannot be > recopyrighted. The info she has is not copywrited. What she can > copyright is the format she presents it in. And if she is scanning > them into the site and not changing the format then she has no > copyright. > > Osmondia Penny can, however, copyright her selection and arrangement of the material she included. And her edited versions of the text if she edited it, her edited versions of the illustrations if she edited them. She can, in other words, copyright her changes, her edition of this material. We've done this for all our pattern books--consulted copyright lawyers, and registered our copyrights with the US Copyright Office. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Sep 15 19:11:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01513 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:11:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8FND1B8029141; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FND1H05949; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g8FNCkH05892 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Osmondia@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id 6.c6.11b9cf1a (3310) for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:12:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Osmondia@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:12:35 EDT Status: RO 
That is what I said.  If she changes it she may copyright the changes.  But 
if she is just scanning them in she may not say it is copyrighted.  The same 
goes for pictures that are bought...you may not copyright them because you 
have no intelligent rights to the.
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Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:25:19 -0700
Status: RO



Osmondia@aol.com wrote:

> 
That is what I said.  If she changes it she may copyright the changes.  But
> if she is just scanning them in she may not say it is copyrighted.  The same
> goes for pictures that are bought...you may not copyright them because you
> have no intelligent rights to the.

According to our lawyer, this gets really complex--because, scanner settings can
have a lot of effect on the scanned image.  Two scans of the same image are not
necessarily alike.  Color scans, especially, can vary a lot with the settings.  For
example, our book  _After a Fashion_ has a (primarily) jade green cover.  This
turned out to be a bad choice, because although it was easy to print correctly it is
very hard to scan in a way that displays tastefully on a monitor.  Our website
displays the color very much as on the real book--but, we fiddled with the scan
settings a lot to get it right.  Most retailers putting up their own quickie scans
of the same cover wound up with a really lurid, awful shade of kelly green.

So:  Supposing the image is in the public domain and therefore legal for anyone to
scan--different scans may, in fact be copyrightable. Different photos of the image
would certainly be, even if they looked very much alike.

Fran

---------------------------------------------
Visit our web pages!
Books on historic costume and vintage clothes
http://www.lavoltapress.com
Historic and vintage dance
http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance


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Subject: [h-cost] Re: international copyright law
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Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:25:07 -0400
Status: RO



It sounds as if British copyright law is much stricter than U.S. Part of the
intent of our (US) copyright law is that works will ALL someday be in the
public domain, so that no one has a copyright forever. Perhaps part of the
intent of British law is for works to be able to be controlled privately
forever. That's my guess, anyway.

Anyway, please correct me if I'm wrong Fran and others, but another point
about Penny's copyright -- you can't copy her images, but if you have
another copy of any of the publications she used, you can copy THOSE images
in your own book or on your own web site. You just can't take Penny's. Her
copyright is for her work created with public domain images, not for the
public domain image. See?

Gail Finke


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Does anyone have any tips for hemming floor length full skirts?

Linda

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Does anyone have any tips for hemming =
floor length=20
full skirts?


 


Linda


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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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Patience. Lots of patience.

I am cartridge pleating a skirt for the very first time, and following a =
suggestion from Teddy ( no, it's not orange!), I'm putting a bead =
between each pleat. Looks good, so long as I don't run out of beads!

Dianne

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: LLB=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:32 PM
  Subject: [h-cost] Hems


  Does anyone have any tips for hemming floor length full skirts?

  Linda

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Patience. Lots of =
patience.


 


I am cartridge pleating a skirt for the =
very first=20
time, and following a suggestion from Teddy ( no, it's not orange!), I'm =
putting=20
a bead between each pleat. Looks good, so long as I don't run out of=20
beads!

Dianne


 



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  LLB=20

  
  
Sent: Sunday, September 15, =
2002 7:32=20
  PM

  
Subject: [h-cost] Hems

  


  
Does anyone have any tips for hemming =
floor=20
  length full skirts?

  
 

  
Linda


------=_NextPart_000_0267_01C25CF1.43966A40--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 15 19:54:19 2002
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At 4:32 PM -0700 9/15/02, LLB wrote:
>Does anyone have any tips for hemming floor length full skirts?
>
>Linda

Assuming that you're asking about the marking/trimming/pinning 
aspect, as opposed to the sewing aspect, my favorite method is to 
have the person wearing the skirt stand on a stool (chairs with backs 
don't work) so that the excess fabric can fall naturally down past 
the feet and not puddle up.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
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You can purchase this book from Sartorial Press (the publisher)

http://www.sartorialpress.com/available_book_titles.html

-- 
Linda Thompson

Visit www.seams-to-be.com
where Attitude is Everything

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> Anyway, please correct me if I'm wrong Fran and others, but another point
> about Penny's copyright -- you can't copy her images, but if you have
> another copy of any of the publications she used, you can copy THOSE images
> in your own book or on your own web site. You just can't take Penny's. Her
> copyright is for her work created with public domain images, not for the
> public domain image. See?
>
> Gail Finke
>

Exactly.

Re copyright of scans:  Savvy publishers who hire graphic artists or services to
scan images make sure to obtain the copyrights of the scans in the contract.
There is a scam (in my opinion) where the person scans the images, then
announces that if the publisher actually wants to _use_ the scans, they have to
pay $$$ extra, because the _rights_ to the scans weren't explicitly included in
the contract.  The person scanning didn't bring up this issue when the contract
was drawn up, of course; only when it's time to turn over the scans.  The
publisher then has to decide whether it is more expensive to have all the
scanning redone by someone else (with a tighter contract) or to pay the first
person extra.  I know more than one publisher who's been burned on this one.

Fran


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems
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>my favorite method is to have the person wearing the skirt
>stand on a stool (chairs with backs don't work) so that the
>excess fabric can fall naturally down past the feet and not
>puddle up.

If you can find a stable/level enough stool, you might be able to combine 
this with another techniqe I've heard of (but I will admit I've not yet 
had a chance to try)...

Run a level line across a doorway and chalk it.  Stand (on the stool) so 
that the fabric of the skirt brushes against the line.  Then slowly 
rotate to mark the hem all around.


Jessica Clark
SCA: Irene leNoir
irene@loudzen.com
www.loudzen.com/users/jessica

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average meters of boning needed for corsets?
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> It depends a lot on the style of the corset (ie if it has any very long
bones in
> it,
> or a long point), and how wide the boning is, and whether you will fully
bone
> or half bone it. The corsets I've made (16th, 17th and 18th c) generally
use about
> 12m of boning. I fully bone the front and half bone the back and sides.
Usually
> about half of the 12m goes in the fully boned front. And I'm a bit smaller
than
> you are Nicole.

I agree. I used about this much just in this corset:
http://recital.tripod.com/costume/margaret.htm Note I have 2 handy photos of
it laid out so you can see all the channels:)

And that's not as fully boned as I would have liked. I was given 8 metres at
first, and then a further 3 so that's 11m, and I could have done with
another metre.

This is why a lot of people have problems with plastic boning, they simply
don't use as much as required. Not saying that's the cause of all the
problems, but it's a big one.

I'm a size.. erg, 10AUS which is a size 12 NZ (or at least it used to be til
we took on Aussie sizes recently) Something likea  size 8US? Eh, you can see
from the piccies;)

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume


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BTW, relating to an earlier thread, according to my copy of
"today" today (Sunday Sept 15) is Felt Hat Day, when men of
fashion put away their straw hats.

	Just FYI.

	-Judy Mitchell


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems
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 --- Irene leNoir  wrote: 
> If you can find a stable/level enough stool, you
> might be able to combine 
> this with another techniqe I've heard of (but I will
> admit I've not yet 
> had a chance to try)...
> 
> Run a level line across a doorway and chalk it. 
> Stand (on the stool) so 
> that the fabric of the skirt brushes against the
> line.  Then slowly 
> rotate to mark the hem all around.


This is the BEST tip I've read in a long while! Thanks
for posting it. :)


Bella 

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Hi. It seems nice and perfectly applicable for SCA/ Renfaire use, and at
125 US, a great buy. There seems to be a little gap between the doublet
and breeches that can be remedied by the addition of points or hooks and
eyes. It is nice to see the whole suit available, including hat, hose,
etc. My first attempt at the same sort of suit was not as well done, nor
as fancy.  Mike T.



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 15 22:37:26 2002
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Hi. The wreath of leaves with berries and the K might indicate Korea. Heraldry
appears to be used by anyone attempting to imply quality. The term "Registered"
might indicate origin, as different nations use different terms. That's all I
have (sorry). Mike T.



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VICTORIAN COLONIAL Costume LONG DRESS - SCA
Item # 714386217

One dress for all your costuming needs!

Kayta

    //// \\\
   ////-@@\\\
  ((((   7 )))
   (((  <> ))))
      )   ((((((
/----\   /---\))

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: international copyright law
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 00:12:48 -0400
Status: RO

Thank you Fran for the link for Britain's copyright laws.

As for the images and articles on my website....
None of the images on my website are straight scans.  I wish it was that
easy, but we spend many hours cleaning and repainting a lot of the images.
Right now, I am working on a 1922 Lane Bryant Maternity catalog.  Boy what a
mess I got myself into, but the end product will be worth it.  I am spending
about 8-12 hours cleaning and repainting each image.  I spent all last
night, separating three ladies on one page that were presented as a group.
They put prices and graphics all over the illustrations.  So I am taking
them off and painting in what I would think would be in its place.
Repainting gets really strange when I have to paint the people body parts
because they have another image overlapping.  Plus that I take a lot of the
backgrounds out to feature the original model.  Plus, the catalog's images
on the back side bleed through the page so I have to paint out the bleed
through. So that is why there are copyrights on them.  The images are being
presented in an entirely new manner.

I own 90% of the material that is presented on my website.  The other 10%
has been loaned to me, and I have permission letters from the owners.  When
I did my internship in a museum, part of my work was in the manuscript
archives.  I learned a great deal about loaning and borrowing materials when
I was in the archives.  When I started my online library was when I started
collecting original manuscripts.  So yes, if you own the same articles and
images that I am presenting online, you may put it online, but you can't
present it in the same manner that I am.

Also when I first started putting articles online, I consulted with Ladies
Home Journal and Vogue/Butterick lawyers about what I wanted to do.  The
manner of my presentation is copyrighted, especially the html code.  We do
edit the text of articles but try to stay to the original tone of the
article.  We do change the spellings of some words but words like colour is
left the same because the average reader understands its meaning.  My
husband, a professional editor, proofread an article that you will see later
tonight.  When the article was originally written it appeared that certain
words were missing.  So we added them in.

After consulting with a copyright attorney, we need to be remove the
trademarked names, like Ladies Home Journal out of the webpage titles and
meta tags.  This is a long process that we are working on.  We can legally
state that this article was originally printed in... and put the trademarked
name in the bibliography source but not in the title of the webpage.
Before someone remarks that there are trademarked names in my titles, please
remember, we are in the process of changing this.

As for copyright laws in different countries... I am interested in using
material from other countries, for two reasons.  1. I would like to make my
library more international oriented...not just American fashions.  2. I
would like to cover more of the 20th Century fashions but because of US
copyright laws, I am stuck at the year 1923.  So I am looking at other
countries as possible sources.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com



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Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:36:34 -0700
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Penny Ladnier wrote:

> Thank you Fran for the link for Britain's copyright laws.
>
> As for the images and articles on my website....
> None of the images on my website are straight scans.  I wish it was that
> easy, but we spend many hours cleaning and repainting a lot of the images.
> Right now, I am working on a 1922 Lane Bryant Maternity catalog.  Boy what a
> mess I got myself into, but the end product will be worth it.  I am spending
> about 8-12 hours cleaning and repainting each image.  I spent all last
> night, separating three ladies on one page that were presented as a group.
> They put prices and graphics all over the illustrations.  So I am taking
> them off and painting in what I would think would be in its place.
> Repainting gets really strange when I have to paint the people body parts
> because they have another image overlapping.  Plus that I take a lot of the
> backgrounds out to feature the original model.  Plus, the catalog's images
> on the back side bleed through the page so I have to paint out the bleed
> through. So that is why there are copyrights on them.  The images are being
> presented in an entirely new manner.

> 

>
> We do
> edit the text of articles but try to stay to the original tone of the
> article.

We do a lot of that kind of scan and text editing too.  Our lawyer said that work/the new
versions are copyrightable, so we register the rights to it/them.

Fran

---------------------------------------------
Visit our web pages!
Books on historic costume and vintage clothes
http://www.lavoltapress.com
Historic and vintage dance
http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance


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From: Robin Netherton 
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Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 23:44:22 -0500 (CDT)
Status: RO


On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Irene leNoir wrote:

> >my favorite method is to have the person wearing the skirt
> >stand on a stool (chairs with backs don't work) so that the
> >excess fabric can fall naturally down past the feet and not
> >puddle up.
> 
> Run a level line across a doorway and chalk it.  Stand (on the stool) so 
> that the fabric of the skirt brushes against the line.  Then slowly 
> rotate to mark the hem all around.

That's a cool idea for hemming by yourself!

My usual method requires two people. The dressed person stands on a phone
book. Arrange the skirt exactly as it should fall, meaning all the folds
fall straight down to the floor. Then, without pulling on the fabric, make
sharp chalk marks every few inches at the point where the fabric hits the
floor. The breaks are very noticeable, and the floor provides a good
backing to your chalk so you can make clear marks.

With a very full skirt, it's easiest to do the arranging and marking bit
by bit, moving the excess out of the way and making sure the part you're
marking is falling straight from the hipline. Mark, then move over a few
inches, redistribute, and mark again.

Have the person take off the dress. Spread out the hem, and connect the
marks with a smooth even line. The outliers should be obvious. Expect the
line to rise a little along any areas where you're on the bias, and lower
along the areas where you're on the straight grain, because the hang of
the skirt would have made some parts of the skirt stretch more. (And you
DID hang it for a day or two, right?)

If you want to be sure you're symmetrical from left side to right, fold
the dress along center front and center back so the sides are even. Lay
out flat. Pin, through both layers, on your marks on the side that's
facing up. Flip the entire thing over. Mark a line that's an average
between the pinned marks and the marks that are now visible. Note: This
does NOT work for people who have asymmetrical hips or shoulders, or
leg-length discrepancies.

If you're adding a train, sketch it in with the dress laid out as I just
described. Start expanding your hemline a bit forward of the side points.

Cut on your line. Then, if you want a dress that skims the floor, turn the
hem up the width of the telephone book. If you want one that brushes along
the floor, turn up less. And so on. If you want one that's higher than the
floor, you may not even need a phone book -- just mark where the fabric
hits, and turn up. Remember that with a springy fabric, the lack of weight
on the hem may cause it to hang a bit shorter after hemming, so compensate
accordingly.

This probably takes less time to do than it did for me to write it out.

--Robin

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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Wendi Dunlap-Simpson 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights
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Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:49:13 -0700
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At 10:51 PM +0100 9/15/02, N Kipar wrote:

>Well, I can only say what he said, but it might well be that he didn't quite
>understand my request/question. he certainly was rather astonished when I
>mentioned publications like Hannah Wooley's from 1677, held in the British
>Library.

Frequently the issue with museums is that their photographs and other 
reproductions of public domain work are copyrighted.

For example, all of Botticelli's paintings are well within the public 
domain. (In the US, for sure, and probably everywhere else as well.) 
But -- the museum owning one of the paintings can restrict 
photography, so that the only photographers currently allowed to 
photograph the painting work for the museum or otherwise sign their 
copyright over to the museum. Then the museum, by default, has 
copyright over all photographs of the artwork, which essentially 
removes the work from the public domain -- unless you can get another 
photo that is old enough to be public domain after all. The 
photographs are themselves considered to be creative works on their 
own merit, that just happen to include a public domain image.

In the US all works pre-1923 are public domain. Period. Some works 
post-1923 are as well, but it's harder to know -- they have to be 
works that were not renewed at a particular time under the old 
copyright law. It's a pain.

If you buy a copy of that 1677 publication at auction, you should be 
able to do anything you like with it since it is public domain. But 
if you are just using the British Library's copy, they can restrict 
you in any way they like for a variety of reasons. And if you are 
using images of it that they created recently, then they can 
copyright those images and restrict you that way.


-- 
-- Wendi

*-----------------------+---------------------------------------+-------*
  \ Wendi Dunlap-Simpson | litlnemo at slumberland.seattle.wa.us | dear /
  / Seattle, Wash., USA  | http://www.slumberland.seattle.wa.us  |  23  \
*--"Somehow everything will be a little different than you thought"-----*
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 01:35:21 2002
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Hi Wendi,

My maiden name is Dunlap too!

This is how the museums make their money.  The Valentine Museum owns one of
the largest collections of the Civil War images.  When you look in a CW
book, look in the credits for a mention of the museum.   Also when you see
films and documentaries, they credit them.

Since the funding of the arts has been cut so much, this is their principal
source of income.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com



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Thanks

Mel
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:25:44 +0100 (BST)
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 --- Wendi Dunlap-Simpson  wrote: > 

Ah,k well, before I continue I should say that I have NO interest whatsoever in
anything having to do with commercial use of material, in whatever kind. I am
working at University and am only interested in the use of copyrighted material
in education i.e. lecture notes, accompanying slides, etc. and most of all
using the Learning & Teaching server that we have created and making lecture
notes, which include copyrighted material, accesible online (on an Intranet)
for students. The moment ANYthing is electronivally published completely
differen laws apply, at least in the UK and according to HERON project
http://www.heron.ac.uk/ I am also interested in using copyrighted (or expired?)
material for research, but that is again a different kettle of fish.

> photography, so that the only photographers currently allowed to 
> photograph the painting work for the museum or otherwise sign their 
> copyright over to the museum. Then the museum, by default, has 
> copyright over all photographs of the artwork, which essentially 
> removes the work from the public domain -- unless you can get another 
> photo that is old enough to be public domain after all. The 

Yes indeed, while museums like the V&A who allow photography only own the
photographs that their photographers take, but not ones that you and I take.
That's why they never allow a tripod or similar of course, to avoid
professional photography.

> If you buy a copy of that 1677 publication at auction, you should be 
> able to do anything you like with it since it is public domain. But 
> if you are just using the British Library's copy, they can restrict 
> you in any way they like for a variety of reasons. And if you are 
> using images of it that they created recently, then they can 
> copyright those images and restrict you that way.

Nah, not for my use, I use it for PhD research, and the documents that I sign
don't restrict that at all. After all, where would the world come to if
research were not allowed freely anymore!!!!!!!!

Nicole - who wishes dearly she could get one of the 17th c. books at an auction :-)

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hey, everybody, I'm home again!
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Welcome back Sue!!!!!!  I am so glad you had a good trip!!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com



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Subject: [h-cost] New Article
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The new article that I mentioned previously is ready.  It is called "Late
Victorian Hair Care"
http://www.costumegallery.com/Delineator/Sept_1893/Hairstyles/hair1a.htm  It
was originally printed in an 1893 Delineator magazine.

This is a lengthy article and I strongly suggest printing it and reading at
your leisure.  Now at times the advice given is very funny... sometimes
bazaar.  Please remember that people all over the U.S., Canada, and France
read this magazine.  Please feel free to comment on it.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com



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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:03:39 +0100
Status: RO

Copyright for commercial use & for private or scholarly use differs greatly.

Whilst the copyright laws exist to protect the copyright holder from
unauthorised use. But the copyright holder needs to sue to enforce such
rights, against the private individual using material for their own use, it
is unlikely to be worth it because the loss orf earnings from such
infringment is negligible.

Abuse on a commercial scale is more worthwhile , in terms of taking action,
but at the end of the day it will still be a commercial decision, there are
no copyright police as such it is a civil matter and therefore expensive.

Reasonably efforts are expected to locate copyright holder, if permission is
sought, most copyright holders of newer material can be found easily there
are a couple of web sites, an alternative is an advert in the National press
I understand.

Mel

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From: Teddy 
Subject: Re:  [h-cost] Re: CostumeCon21
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> It sounds fabulous! But why did you pick Easter weekend? I can't be
> the only one whose family expects her to be with the.! In my family,
> missing Easter is a crime. And I could actually get to Chicago, too!

Over here, Easter Weekend is when the British National SF 
Convention (EasterCon) is - it's a holiday weekend so people are 
more likely to be off-work and able to attend for the full time of the 
convention without having to take extra taime off work.... I assume 
it's a similar situation for Costume Con.

I guess the families of English SF fans either get used to not seeing 
them at Easter or go to the convention themselves...

Teddy
(who will be missing EasterCon in order to be at Costume Con 
21... and Fandom is a far biggr "Family" groups than one's blood 
relations...)
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From: Teddy 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-scissor alternatives
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> I was in Michael's yesterday and found a thread cutter ring ($6.95)
> and also a pendent thread cutter ($7.95). Both are made by Clover
> Manufacturing. Nice if you can't carry scissors on the plane.

But not much help when they won't let you take needles and pins 
either.... no pint in having something to cut your thread with if you 
don't have anything to sew with once it's cut.





Teddy
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From: Teddy 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the Corded Corset c. 1820
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> I thought I sent this to the list yesterday evening, but it seems to
> have vanished.
> 
> I put together a blow-by-blow of my attempt of a corded corset
> c.1820.. so if you wish to read and view it.. you can find it at
> 
> http://www.seams-to-be.com/1820.htm
> I only ask that you be kind in your public comments... :D

Not my period, but it looks lovely.

Teddy
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From: Teddy 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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> I am cartridge pleating a skirt for the very first time, and following
> a suggestion from Teddy ( no, it's not orange!), I'm putting a bead
> between each pleat. Looks good, so long as I don't run out of beads!

Oooh!  Are you doing the same at the sleeve-heads too?




Teddy
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 07:42:21 2002
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From: "Kate M Bunting" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:36:37 +0100
Status: RO

Sorry to seem stupid, but where exactly does the bead go, and what is its function?

Kate Bunting (who's planning to make a new skirt for reenactment over the winter)

>>> teddy1@mdx.ac.uk 09/16/02 01:25pm >>>

> I am cartridge pleating a skirt for the very first time, and following
> a suggestion from Teddy ( no, it's not orange!), I'm putting a bead
> between each pleat. Looks good, so long as I don't run out of beads!

Oooh!  Are you doing the same at the sleeve-heads too?




Teddy
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:40:53 -0400
Status: RO

Not the sleeve heads ( don't think I have enough beads, and the sleeveheads
are actually knife pleated), but I'm using pearl beads on  a metallic black
brocade fabric, and I think it's going to be scrummy! The sleeves and
forepart are a burgundy brocade that's been sitting around waiting for the
perfect project, and I only had 3 1/2 yards (got it at a JoAnn's closing
sale) so I had to be careful with it!

I may go looking for just the right beads for the forepart and sleeves
later, but I want this for East Kingdom Coronation, which is in less than
two weeks, so it'll have to wait!

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Teddy" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)


>
> > I am cartridge pleating a skirt for the very first time, and following
> > a suggestion from Teddy ( no, it's not orange!), I'm putting a bead
> > between each pleat. Looks good, so long as I don't run out of beads!
>
> Oooh!  Are you doing the same at the sleeve-heads too?
>
>
>
>
> Teddy
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>

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Subject: [h-cost] MoL publications
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 04:54:03 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Morning guys,
      Now that I can find specific MoL publications
can anyone direct me to a  place that lists all their
publications so that I can browse?  I'd like a copy of
In Royal Fashion, the Princess Charlotte and Queen
Victoria exhibition catalog.  Mike T has suggested
seeing if I can find catalog for the London Bodies
exhibit.  Also, the MoL site doesn't seem to have a
secure server or a bookshop site so I can send them my
plastic to order books.  Plastic is so much easier as
I don't have access to an international bank and the
credit card people change the money for you.
     As to the yummy books recently listed on ebay
from tweedlebop...   Now I have to learn how to do
ebay :(
                               Cassandra (who is
beginning to really miss those pre-computer days when
researchers got kicked out of the library at midnight
so they could go home and sew)

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 08:21:34 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Teddy Saxon Knot
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Probably way too late but if your friend still needs trim

http://www.calontirtrim.com/cgi-bin/dqryPublicOneTrimName.ASP?%5BRequestT=
rim%5D=3DSaxon+Knot

Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
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Company, unless specifically stated.
Tel: +44 116 260 4442=20
Fax:  +44 116 260 1396=20

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Probably way too late but if your =
friend still=20
needs trim


 


http://www.calontirtrim.com/cgi-bin/dqryPubl=
icOneTrimName.ASP?%5BRequestTrim%5D=3DSaxon+Knot


 


Mel


 


This e-mail, and any attachment, is=20
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Tel: =
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260 4442 
Fax:  +44 116 260 1396 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 08:36:30 2002
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From: Sue Clemenger 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 06:39:27 -0600
Status: RO

Somebody here did this for an ItalianRen....the beads go on the outside
of the skirt, in the little "ditch" of each cartridge pleat. Looks very
nice when you're doing several rows of threads for the pleats, although
I dunno that I've ever seen anything documenting the historical-ness of
it.
Has the double effect of being nicely decorative *and* covering any bits
of the gathering threads that might be showing on the outside.
--sue

Kate M Bunting wrote:
> 
> Sorry to seem stupid, but where exactly does the bead go, and what is its function?
> 
> Kate Bunting (who's planning to make a new skirt for reenactment over the winter)
> 
> >>> teddy1@mdx.ac.uk 09/16/02 01:25pm >>>
> 
> > I am cartridge pleating a skirt for the very first time, and following
> > a suggestion from Teddy ( no, it's not orange!), I'm putting a bead
> > between each pleat. Looks good, so long as I don't run out of beads!
> 
> Oooh!  Are you doing the same at the sleeve-heads too?
> 
> Teddy
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 08:36:32 2002
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I didn't have any problem at all with my needles, and I'd pre-cut my
threads for my blackwork.  Packed my scissors into my checked luggage.
When planning for my trip, I got very contradictory advice from folks,
so I double-checked the airline websites (nothing), and then went
through my travel agent. Sewing needles aren't actually *on* the
verboten list one way or the other.  So, apparently, it's up to the
individual scanner/security person.  She recommended that I make it
obvious it was for embroidery (left the needle in the embroidery).  Size
may also have played a part...I usually prefer a size 24 or 26 tapestry
needle for blackwork.
None of the security (and it was pretty thorough, coming back into the
U.S. on 9/12 !)even mentioned my embroidery or my needles, although I
did have a steady stream of old ladies on the flight home, stopping on
their way up/down the aisle to ask me what I was making!
--sue, gearing up for her first day back at work.....*sigh*

Teddy wrote:
> 
> > I was in Michael's yesterday and found a thread cutter ring ($6.95)
> > and also a pendent thread cutter ($7.95). Both are made by Clover
> > Manufacturing. Nice if you can't carry scissors on the plane.
> 
> But not much help when they won't let you take needles and pins
> either.... no pint in having something to cut your thread with if you
> don't have anything to sew with once it's cut.
> 
> Teddy
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 08:41:31 2002
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ROTFLMAO!
--sue

Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:
> 
> VICTORIAN COLONIAL Costume LONG DRESS - SCA
> Item # 714386217
> 
> One dress for all your costuming needs!
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:48:25 -0400
Status: RO

When I bring the thread to the outside as I make each gathering stitch, I
add a bead. Its only function is cause it's pretty! Since I'm using 3 rosw
of stitching, in between each pleat will be these three tiny beads just
peeking out.

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kate M Bunting" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)


> Sorry to seem stupid, but where exactly does the bead go, and what is its
function?
>
> Kate Bunting (who's planning to make a new skirt for reenactment over the
winter)
>
> >>> teddy1@mdx.ac.uk 09/16/02 01:25pm >>>
>
> > I am cartridge pleating a skirt for the very first time, and following
> > a suggestion from Teddy ( no, it's not orange!), I'm putting a bead
> > between each pleat. Looks good, so long as I don't run out of beads!
>
> Oooh!  Are you doing the same at the sleeve-heads too?
>
>
>
>
> Teddy
> _______________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:05:45 +0100
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Oh, I see. Not really appropriate for an everyday middle-class skirt, then. I thought it must be some trick for making the pleats sit better.



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> goofy1@suscom.net 09/16/02 01:48pm >>>
When I bring the thread to the outside as I make each gathering stitch, I
add a bead. Its only function is cause it's pretty! Since I'm using 3 rosw
of stitching, in between each pleat will be these three tiny beads just
peeking out.

Dianne


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FYI.
Ann

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FYI.

Ann

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From: Teddy 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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> Not the sleeve heads ( don't think I have enough beads, and the
> sleeveheads are actually knife pleated), but I'm using pearl beads on 
> a metallic black brocade fabric, and I think it's going to be scrummy!
> The sleeves and forepart are a burgundy brocade that's been sitting
> around waiting for the perfect project, and I only had 3 1/2 yards
> (got it at a JoAnn's closing sale) so I had to be careful with it!
> 
> I may go looking for just the right beads for the forepart and sleeves
> later, but I want this for East Kingdom Coronation, which is in less
> than two weeks, so it'll have to wait!


Mmmmm.... Does sound scrummy.  Good lcuk with getting it 
finished in time.


Teddy
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From: Teddy 
Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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> Sorry to seem stupid, but where exactly does the bead go, and what is
> its function?

It isn't period, that I know of, just pretty. The beads go between the 
pleats, strung on the threads that gather-in the cartridge pleats.
 
> Kate Bunting (who's planning to make a new skirt for reenactment
> over the winter) 

Ah.. the traditional past time of Making New Kit During The Off 
Season....


Teddy
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 11:25:36 2002
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From: Rebecca Wendelken 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: rigid heddle
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> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm trying to find out where I can get a rigid heddle like the one shown
in the Museum of London Textiles and Clothing book on page 25.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Colleen
>
This is going to sound odd, but I made my own out of popscicle sticks. Drill
a hole in the middle of several sticks and bind them together at the top and
bottom (leaving a narrow space between each) with some thin wooden slats.
It works great, costs less than a purchase and, after a bit of use, looks a
lot like the original.
Rebecca
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 11:28:57 2002
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:22:39 -0400
Status: RO

Probably not good for middle class, no. This is a wonderful black brocade I
got from my favorite eBay seller--it's some sort of acetate blend, so
historical accuracy is right out the window anyway, but oh, it's pretty.

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kate M Bunting" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)


> Oh, I see. Not really appropriate for an everyday middle-class skirt,
then. I thought it must be some trick for making the pleats sit better.
>
>
>
> Kate Bunting
> Library, University of Derby
>
> >>> goofy1@suscom.net 09/16/02 01:48pm >>>
> When I bring the thread to the outside as I make each gathering stitch, I
> add a bead. Its only function is cause it's pretty! Since I'm using 3 rosw
> of stitching, in between each pleat will be these three tiny beads just
> peeking out.
>
> Dianne
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: Robin Netherton 
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Subject: Re:  [h-cost] Re: CostumeCon21
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On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Teddy wrote:

> Teddy
> (who will be missing EasterCon in order to be at Costume Con 
> 21... and Fandom is a far biggr "Family" groups than one's blood 
> relations...)

I intend to be at CostumeCon too. Eventually Linda will tell me what I'm
going to talk about. ;-)

--Robin

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning
	from Wissner?
From: sylvia 
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on 9/14/02 10:56 AM, Megan M. at mmchugh@starpower.net wrote:

> Does anyone in the US have some of the Wissner plastic whalebone to spare?
> I've used only the metal stuff so far, but have been intrigued by this
> stuff, but certainly don't need 200 meters of it just to try it out- just
> enough for a corset or two.  Maybe about 10 meters or so?
> -Megan
> 
>I got some samples of some plastic boning a few years ago from a company called
Endsdown Enterprises.  I don't know if this stuff is supposed to be the
plastic whalebone or something else (it definitely isn't Rigelene).  I can't
find a website for the company so I don't even know how I discovered them in
the first place, but they sent me quite an extensive amount of samples.

Is anyone familiar with this stuff?


Sylvia Rognstad
-- 
Divinity Designs and Emeralds
http://www.d-e-designs.com

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> Copyright for commercial use & for private or scholarly use differs greatly.

In the US _law_ doesn't differ a great deal--the limitations on "fair use" and
"educational use" are narrower than most people think.


>
>
> Whilst the copyright laws exist to protect the copyright holder from
> unauthorised use. But the copyright holder needs to sue to enforce such
> rights, against the private individual using material for their own use, it
> is unlikely to be worth it because the loss orf earnings from such
> infringment is negligible.
>

Here also, the copyright holder has to sue to enforce their rights, if they
can't come to an out-of-court agreement. However, I have been told by lawyers
not to count on thinking "I'm a private individual, I don't have much money
anyway, so no one will bother suing me."  Someone who sues you can go after all
the value of your personal assets--your house, your car, your furniture, any and
all of your personal possessions.  The value of all this can add up to much more
than you might think.

Fran


---------------------------------------------
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Books on historic costume and vintage clothes
http://www.lavoltapress.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 12:12:51 2002
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From: sustre@pixelations.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
Cc: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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At 7:40 AM -0400 9/16/02, Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote:
>Not the sleeve heads ( don't think I have enough beads, and the sleeveheads
>are actually knife pleated), but I'm using pearl beads on  a metallic black
>brocade fabric, and I think it's going to be scrummy! The sleeves and
>forepart are a burgundy brocade that's been sitting around waiting for the
>perfect project, and I only had 3 1/2 yards (got it at a JoAnn's closing
>sale) so I had to be careful with it!

It sounds lovely!

Are they real pearls? If so, think about using a man-made thread; 
real pearls are abrasive, and can wear their way through silk etc., 
or so I was told in a pearl-stringing class.

-Amanda
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 12:39:52 2002
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I may be finishing it in the car on the way there, but it'll be done!
Probably the only advantage to not knowing how to drive---I always hvae that
last little bit of time to finish a project while someone else drives!

Dianne
>
> Mmmmm.... Does sound scrummy.  Good lcuk with getting it
> finished in time.
>
>
> Teddy
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights
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 --- Lavolta Press  wrote: > 

> anyway, so no one will bother suing me."  Someone who sues you can go after
> all
> the value of your personal assets--your house, your car, your furniture, any
> and
> all of your personal possessions.  The value of all this can add up to much
> more
> than you might think.

Yes, well, but I do have to say that I think the suer would be a rather sad
individual then.

Anyway, back to the original issue, even for a University and for pure
educational use, the moment it is being put on the web, no matter if intranet
or internet, it becomes a very tricky business and must be persued with utmost
care. That reminds me, got to put a presentation together for my faculty on
that. *groans* To make it costume-list related, I usually get permission for
copies of illustrations and books and articles from libraries, but because it
is THEIR copy despite the fact that the material itself is 300 years old, I am
allowed to use it for research but have to sign that I only use it for that.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 12:55:10 2002
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 --- Teddy  wrote: > 

> Ah.. the traditional past time of Making New Kit During The Off 
> Season....

*ROTFLMAO* Oh, you mean the one that turns into
I-have-a-nervous-breakdown-coz-I-have-been-sewing-for-48-hours-straight 'jolly
good time' at around 2 a.m. on the night before the show, in the rain, in the
tent, under a gas lantern?

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 13:20:05 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: rigid heddle
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:23:39 +0100
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I made mine from a flat piece of horn

Mel
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>Yes, well, but I do have to say that I think the suer would be a rather sad
individual then.

Only sad in the thief was just copying for their own purposes & then they
would be likely to be laughed out of court !

If the individual was selling en masse , then their deserve it.

Mel
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:29:29 +0100
Status: RO

>However, I have been told by lawyers
not to count on thinking "I'm a private individual, I don't have much money
anyway, so no one will bother suing me."

I didn't actually mean that, if you are a private individual profiting out
of it  you don't get immunity for not being a company

> Someone who sues you can go after all
the value of your personal assets--your house, your car, your furniture, any
and
all of your personal possessions.  The value of all this can add up to much
more
than you might think.

Yes if the courts think it is that much the copyright holder has lost, but
say you took 1 copy of a book worth $10, the max damage caused to the
copyrightholder is $10, which is not worth going to court for, in the
opinions on lawyers I've heard express an opinion here.

If however, you took 1000 copies of that book you would be liabal for the
monies lost plus possible damage to the company for , say, providing a poor
copy & hence damaging their good name.

Personally I prefer to own the real item where possible and am definatly
opposed to copyright theft

Mel


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 13:35:50 2002
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:32:28 -0700
Status: RO

Nicole wrote:
>  --- Lavolta Press  wrote: > 
> > anyway, so no one will bother suing me."  Someone who sues you can
> > go after all the value of your personal assets--your house, your
> > car, your furniture, any and all of your personal possessions.  The
> > value of all this can add up to much more than you might think.
> 
> Yes, well, but I do have to say that I think the suer would be a
> rather sad individual then.

I think it depends on the point of view. The reason why copyright 
holders start going after even the "little guy" is because if they 
*don't* they may lose their rights even with the "big guys." It 
usually isn't a "money" thing but rather "I've got to nip this in the 
bud. I need to make sure that no one steals my property and the only 
way I see to do that is to go after this small group/person who is 
blatant."

You see, in court they may look at how many places you have allowed 
it to go on. If the court sees that it is plastered all over the Web 
and you've done nothing about it, then they are going to say "too 
bad. We have to treat this corporation the same way you treated all 
those others."

Generally it won't get to court with the "little guy". It is usually 
enough to write to them and ask them to remove the material or to 
make recompense for using your images in their newsletters. However, 
sometimes people ignore such a request. So the next step is to ask a 
lawyer to it for you. If they ignore that, then you go to court.

Kat Russell


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 13:47:41 2002
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:43:57 -0700
Status: RO

> Yes if the courts think it is that much the copyright holder has lost,
> but say you took 1 copy of a book worth $10, the max damage caused to
> the copyrightholder is $10, which is not worth going to court for, in
> the opinions on lawyers I've heard express an opinion here.
> 
> If however, you took 1000 copies of that book you would be liabal for
> the monies lost plus possible damage to the company for , say,
> providing a poor copy & hence damaging their good name.

That's where "fair use" comes in. If someone is using it for their 
own personal use, it is not likely it would come to the attention of 
the owner. However, usually it is quite blatant (using it in a 
newsletter or on a web site) that gets you into trouble. 

Or if it can be shown that you are sharing it (additional copies) or 
otherwise depriving them of income (because they don't have to come 
to the source.)

Many self published books are *not* cheap. I recently got a 
legitimate copy of a book (which would not have degraded with 
photocopying because it was mostly text or simple diagrams) that cost 
me $70US. It would have cost me about $5US to copy. That's a pretty 
big jump, not the "$10" which one might think it was really worth.

> Personally I prefer to own the real item where possible and am
> definatly opposed to copyright theft

Amen to that! Back in the era when the University copycenter would 
photocopy entire books for someone (even if they didn't go to the 
University but had library privileges), I got several costume and 
textile books this way. But over the years it has been my "geas" to 
make sure that as soon as I could afford an original of the book (or 
find it in some cases), I would get the original. I don't have many 
of the photocopies left anymore. ;)

Kat Russell


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 13:49:38 2002
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:50:43 +0100 (BST)
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 --- Melanie Wilson  wrote: > >Yes, well, but I do
have to say that I think the suer would be a rather sad
> individual then.
> 
> Only sad in the thief was just copying for their own purposes & then they
> would be likely to be laughed out of court !

That's what I meant of course! 
I can't quite imagine how an individual manages to make 1000 copies and try to
sell them off, what crooked stupidity that would be.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 13:53:48 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:54:56 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

Wheehee, we are back to the good old copyright discussion! May I take bets when
it starts getting out of hands?

nah, seriously, I am sure we all understand and respect copyright and thus
should stop here and now before we are back to the usual eruption on this very
same topic. It isn't even about historical costumes and I am sure there are
tons of emails (many not too pleasant) in the archives about this pet topic.

Nicole - responsible partly for copyright clearance in her Faculty.

 --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > Nicole wrote:

> Generally it won't get to court with the "little guy". It is usually 
> enough to write to them and ask them to remove the material or to 
> make recompense for using your images in their newsletters. However, 
> sometimes people ignore such a request. So the next step is to ask a 
> lawyer to it for you. If they ignore that, then you go to court.
> 
> Kat Russell
> 



=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 14:00:22 2002
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:03:55 +0100
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>Many self published books are *not* cheap. I recently got a
legitimate copy of a book (which would not have degraded with
photocopying because it was mostly text or simple diagrams) that cost
me $70US. It would have cost me about $5US to copy. That's a pretty
big jump, not the "$10" which one might think it was really worth.

Which is why electronic publishing should be used IMHO on really small runs.

>I could afford an original of the book (or
find it in some cases),

Which is where copyright gets a bit weird to me as once it is out of print
you are no longer depriving the copyright holder directly, esp if it will
NEVER be reprinted & the greater good is not them served. I'd be happy to
copy & send a fee to the holder myself then everyone is happy

Mel
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 14:00:39 2002
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>I can't quite imagine how an individual manages to make 1000 copies and try
to
sell them off, what crooked stupidity that would be.

Videos & Cds are more subject to this that printed stuiff I think :)

Mel

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Subject: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:05:47 +0100 (BST)
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I wondered if anyone here knows (though perhaps I should ask on a vintage
list?) I got all the missing original bits from the nice curator (re-enactor
too :-) of the Red Cross museum for my 1950s nurse uniform and am ready to go,
so to speak, but would like to get everything together including the proper
underwear and stockings. I don't have a clue what women wore in the 1950s, does
anyone know of a place to find out or ask? I had a look on the net but couldn't
find much.
Thanks!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From: "Martha Kelly" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boningfrom Wissner?
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:08:49 -0300
Status: RO

I'm extremely fond of the German plastic boning.  I've gotten mine from
Farthingales in Canada.  Talk to the owner Linda Sparks and ask her about
Wissner.  I think she carriers another brand because she thinks it's better.
I certainly like the stuff she sells.


http://www.farthingales.on.ca/bones.php

Martha



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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:14:23 -0700
Status: RO

>
>
> Yes if the courts think it is that much the copyright holder has lost, but
> say you took 1 copy of a book worth $10, the max damage caused to the
> copyrightholder is $10, which is not worth going to court for, in the
> opinions on lawyers I've heard express an opinion here.

In the US, at least, the amount that can be sued for is seldom as low as the
unit cost of the book or other work.  The amount counts potential sales lost due
to unauthorized distribution of the work, and this applies whether the
unauthorized person is charging for it or not.  If you post a $10 book on the
web without permission, the amount lost to the author and publisher would be far
in excess of $10.  The person suing also usually tries to get the court to award
them the legal costs for the suit (that is, the loser pays legal expenses, court
costs, etc, for the winner).



>
> If however, you took 1000 copies of that book you would be liabal for the
> monies lost plus possible damage to the company for , say, providing a poor
> copy & hence damaging their good name.

See above.   The legal issue here is not stealing physical copies of the book,
it's interfering with the publisher's potential sales of same.  The issue is
intellectual property, not physical property,


>
>
> Personally I prefer to own the real item where possible and am definatly
> opposed to copyright theft

Great!

Fran

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Status: RO



> >Many self published books are *not* cheap. I recently got a
> legitimate copy of a book (which would not have degraded with
> photocopying because it was mostly text or simple diagrams) that cost
> me $70US. It would have cost me about $5US to copy. That's a pretty
> big jump, not the "$10" which one might think it was really worth.

Costs for an elaborate  print book such as most costume books run into tens of
thousands of dollars _per book_.  They are by no means limited to what is paid
to the printer. They include royalties or other payments to the author and any
illustrators; editing; indexing; scanning or other rendering of the
illustrations for production; book and cover design; page layout; proofreading;
equipment such as computers, laser printers, and scanners; office rent;
warehouse rent; publicity; marketing; and miscellaneous fees for proofs,
copyright registration, etc.  All these are very real and necessary costs.

And most of them, BTW, pertain to electronic books as well as print books.


>
>
> Which is why electronic publishing should be used IMHO on really small runs.

The problem with e-books (at least currently)  is that there's no market for
them (most readers don't really want them), no distribution system (most
retailers don't want them), and no respect for them (most reviewers won't review
them).   They're not cheap to publish if they don't sell.  Many publishers would
love to switch to producing e-books; but various publishers' attempts to do so
have been far from encouraging.

Much the same problems currently apply to print on demand.  Print on demand has
a significantly higher unit cost than offset printing (therefore higher cover
prices are charged to the consumer), and the quality is lower. And since it
actually takes a long time to get the books ("on demand" is a misnomer), most
retailers refuse to carry POD books.


>
>
> >I could afford an original of the book (or
> find it in some cases),
>
> Which is where copyright gets a bit weird to me as once it is out of print
> you are no longer depriving the copyright holder directly, esp if it will
> NEVER be reprinted & the greater good is not them served. I'd be happy to
> copy & send a fee to the holder myself then everyone is happy

You will never know if the work will _NEVER_ be reprinted.  In many cases it is,
it's just not around when you are looking for it.  The greater good is served
when the work goes into the public domain.  Before that, it is the copyright
holder's privilege to hold a monopoly on producing/copying it and benefit from
that as they are able.

As for copying and sending a fee, that is a request you can always make of the
copyright holder.


>

Fran

> Mel

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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:35:59 -0700
Status: RO

>
>
> I think it depends on the point of view. The reason why copyright
> holders start going after even the "little guy" is because if they
> *don't* they may lose their rights even with the "big guys." It
> usually isn't a "money" thing but rather "I've got to nip this in the
> bud. I need to make sure that no one steals my property and the only
> way I see to do that is to go after this small group/person who is
> blatant."
>
> You see, in court they may look at how many places you have allowed
> it to go on. If the court sees that it is plastered all over the Web
> and you've done nothing about it, then they are going to say "too
> bad. We have to treat this corporation the same way you treated all
> those others."
>
> Generally it won't get to court with the "little guy". It is usually
> enough to write to them and ask them to remove the material or to
> make recompense for using your images in their newsletters. However,
> sometimes people ignore such a request. So the next step is to ask a
> lawyer to it for you. If they ignore that, then you go to court.
>

Most Internet service provider agreements stipulate that the user not
violate copyright.  I've been told by several people who did this that, if
the web site owner refuses to remove the material,  you can usually  get
their ISP to block access to their page until they do.

Fran


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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:43:28 -0700
Status: RO

I won't reveal their locations, but there are several electronic arenas where
people upload entire copyrighted books in electronic format, without
permission.  Like, several books are uploaded to each arena  _every day_ (each
in a whole bunch of files, per chapter or whatever).  Also magazines, comics,
and other printed matter.

People go to some trouble to conceal their real IDs (they know this is illegal),
and post from anonymous email services.  They justify this by asserting that
authors and artists don't deserve to get paid. Really.

Fran

Melanie Wilson wrote:

> >I can't quite imagine how an individual manages to make 1000 copies and try
> to
> sell them off, what crooked stupidity that would be.
>
> Videos & Cds are more subject to this that printed stuiff I think :)
>
> Mel
>
> This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
> it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
> the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
> this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
> Company, unless specifically stated.
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:42:53 +0100
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Teddy  wrote
>
>> Sorry to seem stupid, but where exactly does the bead go, and what is
>> its function?
>
>It isn't period, that I know of, just pretty. The beads go between the
>pleats, strung on the threads that gather-in the cartridge pleats.
>
>> Kate Bunting (who's planning to make a new skirt for reenactment
>> over the winter)
>
>Ah.. the traditional past time of Making New Kit During The Off
>Season....
>
>
>Teddy

May I brag?  We have today finished a new pair of hose for himself 
(banded hose for Hastings) - and our season isn't even over yet!  And 
I've done all the mending and started on the new kit too.

Bets on this industriousness lasting out September?

Jean

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
From: sylvia 
To: 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:39:46 -0600
Status: RO

on 9/16/02 12:05 PM, N Kipar at nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com wrote:

> I wondered if anyone here knows (though perhaps I should ask on a vintage
> list?) I got all the missing original bits from the nice curator (re-enactor
> too :-) of the Red Cross museum for my 1950s nurse uniform and am ready to go,
> so to speak, but would like to get everything together including the proper
> underwear and stockings. I don't have a clue what women wore in the 1950s,
> does
> anyone know of a place to find out or ask? I had a look on the net but
> couldn't
> find much.

Hate to admit I'm old enough to remember, at least to remember what my
mother wore, although she wasn't a nurse.  Girdles, girdles, girdles!  And
they were made of rubber with little holes in them and no crotch, so she
wore panties under them.  Stockings, not panty hose.  And those cone shaped
bras.

Sylvia

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From: "Kim Baird" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:00:37 -0500
Status: RO

Bra (pointy cups)
Panties
Full slip
Girdle with garters attached to hold up your
Nylon stockings

This site has a good picture:

http://www.geocities.com/~girdlezone/contents.htm

Kim

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of N Kipar
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:06 PM
To: H-Costume
Subject: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?

I wondered if anyone here knows (though perhaps I should ask on a
vintage
list?) I got all the missing original bits from the nice curator
(re-enactor
too :-) of the Red Cross museum for my 1950s nurse uniform and am ready
to go,
so to speak, but would like to get everything together including the
proper
underwear and stockings. I don't have a clue what women wore in the
1950s, does
anyone know of a place to find out or ask? I had a look on the net but
couldn't
find much.
Thanks!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 15:23:48 2002
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Status: RO

        Ok kiddies, this old lady was adult and working (not as a nurse)
in the fifties.  Actually, I was a Grey Lady, does that count?  Anyhow
underwear was much the same as now except that the bras were pretty
pointy, but you could get some that weren't.  Full slips were in fashion,
but if you didn't need coverage on top, a half slip was acceptable (as
when you were wearing a vest or jacket over a blouse).  Not everyone wore
girdles.  I did own a panty girdle, but rarely wore it.  I had a garter
belt to hold up my stockings.  Stockings were nylon with seams up the
back.  Nurses wore the white nylons with seams up the back.  They did
make your legs look great but were a major nuisance as they didn't always
stay straight.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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 --- Jean Waddie  wrote: > 

> May I brag?  We have today finished a new pair of hose for himself 
> (banded hose for Hastings) - and our season isn't even over yet!  And 
> I've done all the mending and started on the new kit too.

Shocking!!! *laughs*
Okay, so I am still working on roll hemming His Nib's new fine linen cravat.
Thanks to kat I know how to roll hem now, but Kat, I am still slow and I still
don't like it. ;-)

> Bets on this industriousness lasting out September?

Okay.... a packet of German chokki biccies that it doesn't?

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From: "Martha Kelly" 
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If you have time to go to a library, look at a Sears catalogue from the year
you're recreating.  They always had pages and pages of underwear.
Martha

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>I wondered if anyone here knows (though perhaps I should ask on a vintage
>list?) I got all the missing original bits from the nice curator (re-enactor
>too :-) of the Red Cross museum for my 1950s nurse uniform and am ready to go,
>so to speak, but would like to get everything together including the proper
>underwear and stockings. I don't have a clue what women wore in the 1950s, 
>does
>anyone know of a place to find out or ask? I had a look on the net but 
>couldn't
>find much.
>Thanks!

In America anyway: separate stockings (with seams) and either a garter belt 
or garters on a girdle, waist-high underpants, and a very solid bra.  In 
the 1950s, my grandmother who was born in 1880 (she was 70 in 1950) still 
wore a 1930s-ish corset-thing consisting of bra and girdle in one 
piece.  You could still get these from like a Sears catalog.  I never saw 
my mother (she was 26 in 1950) wear a girdle, and she didn't wear stockings 
a lot in 1950, preferring bobby sox (ankle-high) and Oxfords.  She 
graduated from college, with my GI-Bill father, in 1949.


Kayta

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Status: RO

A friend of mine flew from Texas to Maine in August and she was able to get 
sewing needles on her flight. She put two or three of them into the lining 
of her wallet and put the hem into two sleeves while on the plane - no 
problem. Similarly, my mother talked to someone when she was on a trip to 
St. Louis who said she takes knitting needles on her trip - she specified 
the particular brand, but my mother and I are speculating the plastic 
(nylon) needles would pass through security.

Mary/Katerine
(who has carried syringes on flights and not once has it been questioned.)

> > I was in Michael's yesterday and found a thread cutter ring ($6.95)
> > and also a pendent thread cutter ($7.95). Both are made by Clover
> > Manufacturing. Nice if you can't carry scissors on the plane.
>
>But not much help when they won't let you take needles and pins
>either.... no pint in having something to cut your thread with if you
>don't have anything to sew with once it's cut.
>
>
>
>Teddy


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Subject: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in my cunning plan for an Elizabethian
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:01:39 -0400
Status: RO

Well, maybe not a flaw, but definately a complication.
To recap, I want to make a gathered kirtle out of linen, to be worn under a loose gown made out of wool.
Then, last month, just as I was preparing to draft the patterns...I found out that I am pregnant.  Now I'm quite happy about the pregnancy but it does rather complicate matters wrt the sewing :)

Since at nine weeks I'm already starting to show, I figure that I'm going to get pretty huge, and I want this to be a outfit that I can wear for most of my pregnancy.

My plan right now is to do the following.  I will add several inches (I'm thinking around 4) to all of the seams of the kirtle  I will then sew all of the seams 3 times, so that as I expand the kirtle can expand with me.  I will do the same thing to the gown.  
However, I'm not quite sure if this will be enough room for expansion, or for that matter if I am underestimating the ability of a kirtle and/or a gown to expand.

thanks,
Katie
---
Buffy:  Oh, yeah. I remember coming on to you, I remember begging you to 
undress me... And then a sudden need for cheese. 



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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:19:54 -0400
Status: RO

Quoting Teddy :


> 
> But not much help when they won't let you take needles and pins 
> either.... no pint in having something to cut your thread with if you 
> don't have anything to sew with once it's cut.
> 

They let me on with sewing needles a couple of weekends ago -- I did have to 
put my pointed embroidery scissors in my checked bag, however. I continued to 
embroider though - I cut a couple of lengths of floss before packing my 
scissors, and just used them on the flight. 

Of course this was in the US - your experience in GB may be different....

Melanie
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 20:31:03 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] what book Mel?
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

WHat book are you refering to Mel?  If it's costume
related you could share :)
                      Cassandra

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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:01:01 -0600
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If you get to brag, Jean, do we get to hate you? 
--Sue, who looks forward to long, dark Montana winters to keep her
inside and focused on sewing...and embroidery....and sewing....and
embroidery..;-)

Jean Waddie wrote:
> 

> May I brag?  We have today finished a new pair of hose for himself
> (banded hose for Hastings) - and our season isn't even over yet!  And
> I've done all the mending and started on the new kit too.
> 
> Bets on this industriousness lasting out September?
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 21:26:26 2002
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:16:57 -0400
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Hi, All. Nicole, there are a number of reenactment units out there doing WWII, and
I don't think the Korean era stuff was that different. Since the Red Cross is a
civilian entity, I would assume that the stuff worn underneath was civilian. I seem
to remember one of the photo-illustrated books on reenactment stuff (Brassey's or
the Color Photograph series) that had pictures of Women's uniforms, etc. You could
probably search old catalogs for images of 50s underthings. Here in the US we had
Sears and Montgomery Ward as two large catalog companies with illustrated catalogs.
I don't know if Britain had an equivalent at the time. Good Luck, Mike T.



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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:28:37 +1200
Status: RO

This has been quite fun, as recently people have been asking how to get
their hair to grow long. And a lot of the myths in this article *still*
pursist:

"If the hair is wayward, much may be done by persistent brushing to train it
in the desired direction."
Sorry, but hair grows from the root *under* the skin.. you're more likey to
break the hair with the force needed to alter the direction of the root;)
(you can change the shape of a bone in 7 years don't know about other
tissues... ) and any straightening you get will be undone as soon as the
hair gets wet again.

"The hair should not be washed or shampooed oftener than once a month,
unless it is expose to much dust; but it should be loosely arranged for an
hour or two everyday to allow a free circulation of air to the roots."
There is no right or wrong amount of washing or cleaning hair needs.
Everyone has different properties of hair.. and it can change over a
lifetime anyway. I used to need to wash mine every two days due to over
active oil production (and that affected my face as well, so it wasn't
because I stripped the oils away). Now it's every 4 days or so. I don't
count any more. I suppose it could be in the interests of scientific
research;)

And the quote mimics very stronly what was in the hair care article of my
Girls Own Annual.. which I belive you link to somewhere Penny?
http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic it's there somewhere...


"Nature knows what she is about, and, unless thwarted by our own or our
ancestor's misconduct, provides us with hair that harmonizes with our
complexion, features and age"
Whoa.. what are they trying to say here? *Misconduct??? And nature doesn't
play by our aesthetics.. some complextions and hair colour do tend to go
hand in hand due to gentic and environmental factors.. but it's not because
they look good;)

"We are told by some authorities that if the divided ends of the hair are
singed off instead of cut, the growth will become more vigorous and
abundant; while others declare that heat appIied even at the tips of the
tresses is a serious detriment, because it wounds, shocks and, perhaps,
mortally injures the hair. "
Well what ever you do to the ends has absolutely no effect on growth of
hair. It's a shaft of non living protein (though if it was living it
wouldn't necessarily hurt to cut as suggested elsewhere, you need nerve
cells to feel pain). It's just going to affect the ends.

Most of the rest is pretty sound advice, massaging does help, not keeping
hair in tight styles will stop you from breaking the hair, and pulling it
from the roots (happens a lot in those braided extensions). Even pulling
hair fromt he root though won't actually stop the hair from growing, it'll
just take a long time to get grow a hair back to the normal length;)

It's been very fun reading this in light on my own recent reading on hair
myths and facts:)

michaela

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 21:58:37 2002
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:05:12 -0600
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Oddly enough, I have a *whole* bunch of wool yarn that did something
similar after it was mordanted and dyed.  It started life as a 2-ply,
off-white wool yarn about the thickness of your average modern crewel
wool.  After its first immersion in hot water, one of the plies shrank
enormously (30%?), and the other stayed the same.  Further immersion in
hot water/dye baths did not alter this.  It looks very...peculiar, as if
one of the plies were much more tightly spun than the other (not at all
noticeable in the original state).
Because of my travels, I haven't yet had a chance to go back to the
store where I purchased the yarn, and ask if this is a deliberate
effect.  I'd intended to use it for embroidery, but it doesn't look like
it'd work for what I want, now.  I may try to knit up a bit to see what
I get.  I may also buy a bit more of it, knit that, and then wash it to
see what happens.
--sue, catching up on old emails

Robin Netherton wrote:
> 

> So, I'm wondering if any of the wool experts on this list have any
> suggestions on how I might salvage these pieces. The chief problem I have
> is when the wool seems to be shrinking or pulling unevenly. I'm used to
> seeing the body of the fabric shrink more than the selvedges (which end up
> rippling a bit), but the problem comes when the effect seems to happen all
> over, unevenly. I'm not getting a lot of pilling, and the color is fine.
> It's just the weave is rippling or pulling irregularly all over. I also
> sometimes get a rough surface (on worsteds) or a crepey one (on woolens),
> even when the original was very smooth. Ironing doesn't help.
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:08:40 -0400
Status: RO

Are you referring to the plastic whalebone or the German Plastic boning?  If
it is the german plastic stuff that looks a bit like rigilene, how does it
compare to steel bones?  What width did you use?  What do you all recommend,
as laying out $100 for boning I've never seen is a bit much?
-Megan

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Martha Kelly
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:09 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset
boningfrom Wissner?


I'm extremely fond of the German plastic boning.  I've gotten mine from
Farthingales in Canada.  Talk to the owner Linda Sparks and ask her about
Wissner.  I think she carriers another brand because she thinks it's better.
I certainly like the stuff she sells.


http://www.farthingales.on.ca/bones.php

Martha



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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:21:39 -0400
Status: RO

Michaela,

I just won two auctions, one is about personal care for 1911, including hair
care, and another book from a hairdressers school for 1934.  I can't wait to
read them and see if there is a change in attitude.

The things I found funny in the article was the concern for baldness in men
and women, and dandruff.  I thought, well washing your hair in borax might
make your hair thinner!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 16 23:37:33 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Leine info online?
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:38:43 -0400
Status: RO

I'm frantically sewing some tunics (Herjolfernes based) for an event 
in a couple of weeks, but my Irish-Brit husband would appreciate an 
Irish option, I think. I remember there was an excellent article in 
Tournaments Illuminated several years ago on a more-authentic leine, 
and I carefully set that issue aside because I wanted to make one for 
him- and have never seen it since. (And yes, I've cleaned the house 
in the meantime! )

Does anyone know if there's a copy of that article online somewhere? 
IIRC, the author was hoping at one point to put it up...

Thanks in advance,
Amanda
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] what book Mel?
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>WHat book are you refering to Mel?  If it's costume
related you could share :)
                      

Sorry under what subject ?

Mel

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:43:35 +0100
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>Costs for an elaborate  print book such as most costume books run into tens
of
thousands of dollars _per book_.

I know this I used to be in prining :)

However 1 copy does not directly cost 1000s . Not court in the Uk (I hope)
would ever set all pre production cost etc on someone pirating a single copy
it would be unjust.

And yes in more elabortate cases of books e copies are as expensive. But not
in acedemic reports such as archaeological digs etc, the print costs push
the work into the unaffordable by many, wheras the CD & print off your own
as you desired would be . The work has to be done either way in most cases
under the remit of the acedemic institute funding or more commonlyt here
these days the developer.

>The problem with e-books (at least currently)  is that there's no market
for
them (most readers don't really want them), no distribution system (most
retailers don't want them), and no respect for them (most reviewers won't
review
them).   They're not cheap to publish if they don't sell.  Many publishers
would
love to switch to producing e-books; but various publishers' attempts to do
so
have been far from encouraging.

Yes most people prefer the tactile experiance of a real book I agree. I'm
talking more of specilised stuff, that won't get to a large audience any
other way. See above. Pre production is about the same agreed, but a CD even
on a short run is less that $1, no book can be printed for that unless in
really big quantities.

>Much the same problems currently apply to print on demand.  Print on demand
has
a significantly higher unit cost than offset printing (therefore higher
cover
prices are charged to the consumer), and the quality is lower.

Shouldn't do print on demand here is very high quality & fast & cheaper than
offset. Many acedemic reports are going that way here.

>You will never know if the work will _NEVER_ be reprinted.  In many cases
it is,
it's just not around when you are looking for it.

No there are 99% of printed books ever printed, are out of print, most of
these will catagorically never be printed again. Ok maybe I can't guess
which maybe. But in the meantime it is the person hungry for knowledge that
suffers, most of the authors are long dead & don't care.

>As for copying and sending a fee, that is a request you can always make of
the
copyright holder.

Assuming you can find them or their offspring, which is by no means easy.

Mel

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>They justify this by asserting that
authors and artists don't deserve to get paid. Really.

As I said this is theft & I don't agree with theft :) 

Mel

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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:49:30 +0100
Status: RO

>In the US, at least, the amount that can be sued for is seldom as low as
the
unit cost of the book or other work.  The amount counts potential sales lost
due
to unauthorized distribution of the work, and this applies whether the
unauthorized person is charging for it or not.  If you post a $10 book on
the
web without permission, the amount lost to the author and publisher would be
far
in excess of $10.

See what I said later. I though I had stated that the $10 scenario refered
to a person doing 1 copy for their own use. I then went on to say if you
were selling commerically the situation differed.

Mel


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in my cunning plan for an Elizabethian
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 --- Katie Lewis  wrote: > Well, maybe not a flaw, but
definately a complication.
> To recap, I want to make a gathered kirtle out of linen, to be worn under a
> loose gown made out of wool.
> Then, last month, just as I was preparing to draft the patterns...I found out
> that I am pregnant.  Now I'm quite happy about the pregnancy but it does
> rather complicate matters wrt the sewing :)

First of all congratulations!
second, I have NO experience with being pregnant, so caveat emptor here.
Third, did you see the wonderful Ropa that one of the ladies from I think
Bristol fair made? I think she is on Margo's patern list, and she looked SUPERB
in it when she went to the fair TWO weeks before she was due. I am just
wondering, perhaps of you went for something completely different this time,
for a ropa, then you wouldn't have to worry, and just make the kirtle gown
after the baby is born?

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Teddy Saxon Knot
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> Probably way too late but if your friend still needs trim
> 
> http://www.calontirtrim.com/cgi-
> bin/dqryPublicOneTrimName.ASP?%5BRequestT=
> rim%5D=3DSaxon+Knot

Thanks Mel,  I've passed it on to them anyway, just in case they 
haven't got that far yet or want it to trim another costume.  




Teddy
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> I didn't have any problem at all with my needles, and I'd pre-cut
> my threads for my blackwork.  Packed my scissors into my checked
> luggage. When planning for my trip, I got very contradictory advice
> from folks, so I double-checked the airline websites (nothing), and
> then went through my travel agent. Sewing needles aren't actually
> *on* the verboten list one way or the other.  So, apparently, it's
> up to the individual scanner/security person.  She recommended that
> I make it obvious it was for embroidery (left the needle in the
> embroidery). Size may also have played a part...I usually prefer a
> size 24 or 26 tapestry needle for blackwork. None of the security
> (and it was pretty thorough, coming back into the U.S. on 9/12
> !)even mentioned my embroidery or my needles, although I did have a
> steady stream of old ladies on the flight home, stopping on their
> way up/down the aisle to ask me what I was making! --sue, gearing
> up for her first day back at work.....*sigh* 

Perhaps I will be able to use the flight to Chicago to worn on my 
costumes for Costume Con then!  Thanks Sue.   Glad you had a 
good visit overhere.

Teddy
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> I intend to be at CostumeCon too. Eventually Linda will tell me what
> I'm going to talk about. ;-)

I just hope it doesn't clash with anything I'm doing.... Karen, see to it 
will you, please?....


Teddy
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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> > Ah.. the traditional past time of Making New Kit During The Off
> > Season....
> 
> *ROTFLMAO* Oh, you mean the one that turns into
> I-have-a-nervous-breakdown-coz-I-have-been-sewing-for-48-hours-straigh
> t 'jolly good time' at around 2 a.m. on the night before the show, in
> the rain, in the tent, under a gas lantern?

That's the one - it's amazing how having the entire off-season to 
get somethign done can suddenly transmogrify into an all-nighter 
just before you need it ready to wear!



Teddy
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Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Off-Season projects (WAS: Hems (and pleats))
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> >Ah.. the traditional past time of Making New Kit During The Off
> >Season....
> 
> May I brag?  We have today finished a new pair of hose for himself
> (banded hose for Hastings) - and our season isn't even over yet! 
> And I've done all the mending and started on the new kit too. 

 I bow to your industriousness!
 
> Bets on this industriousness lasting out September?

Let us know if you do - perhaps you'll be in for some award!
 

Teddy
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Kayta wrote:

>In America anyway: separate stockings (with seams) and either a garter >belt or garters on a girdle, waist-high underpants, and a very solid bra.  In 
>the 1950s, my grandmother who was born in 1880 (she was 70 in 1950) >still wore a 1930s-ish corset-thing consisting of bra and girdle in one 
>piece.  You could still get these from like a Sears catalog.  I never saw 
>my mother (she was 26 in 1950) wear a girdle, and she didn't wear >stockings a lot in 1950, preferring bobby sox (ankle-high) and Oxfords.  

Translating into British terminology:
Garter belt = suspender belt
Underpants = knickers (they were usually cotton with elastic threaded through a casing at the waist, which occasionally broke, resulting in jokes about women's knickers falling down.)

I was a child in the 50s. My mother didn't wear a girdle either, being as skinny as I am now, or even a bra most of the time; just a vest (?undershirt to Americans) of knitted cotton or fine wool.

Lalah mentioned white nylons; I think British nurses traditionally wore black stockings.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

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From: Deredere & Owen Iskander 
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Subject: [h-cost] "Need help with Country and western dress" Thanks!
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:49:34 +0200
Status: RO

  Thank you all for giving me advice for making a "historical" Country 
and Western dress!
The dress I made is now on my website!
http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/Country&Western.html

Greetings,
        Deredere


Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am invited to a country and western wedding and I was wondering if a 
> 1850 Amarican dress would be appropriate.
>
> Normally I make 15th to 16th century dresses, and this would be an 
> intresting experience.
> But I don't know much of this period.
> I made a design wich you can see here:
> http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/1850.html
>
> Would this be the right look?
> What kind of chemise would have been worn with this dress?
> And what kind of pleats should I use for the skirt to attach to the body?
> It doesn't have to be perfectly period but I would like to now.
>
> Greetings,
>        Deredere
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 08:07:54 2002
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From: "Apollonia Margherita" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Leine info online?
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:02:57 -0400
Status: RO

I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but try these links...

www.reconstructinghistory.com

www.celticgarb.org

Apollonia


----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Leine info online?


> I'm frantically sewing some tunics (Herjolfernes based) for an event 
> in a couple of weeks, but my Irish-Brit husband would appreciate an 
> Irish option, I think. I remember there was an excellent article in 
> Tournaments Illuminated several years ago on a more-authentic leine, 
> and I carefully set that issue aside because I wanted to make one for 
> him- and have never seen it since. (And yes, I've cleaned the house 
> in the meantime! )
> 
> Does anyone know if there's a copy of that article online somewhere? 
> IIRC, the author was hoping at one point to put it up...
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 08:11:47 2002
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From: Cascio Michael 
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Subject: [h-cost] what book Mel
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You mentioned a book Mel that you bought at 70us but
could have photocopied at 5us as an example of your
principles of owning the original.  We get into
copoyright with original variations on public domain
quilt patterns too.  I'm hoping to get some of
tweedlebops ebay books as I want them but they're out
of print for the most part and I hate to copy or scan,
 my last resort for particularly yummy photos.
                         Cassandra

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 08:16:04 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] beginers book
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:40:27 +0930
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Hello
I've just been fliping through what I think is the BEST beginers book for 
tudor clothes (actually thats its name 'Tudor Clothes') Its aimed at school 
productions. It hase really simple and clear instructions along with grided 
patterns in two sizes (for children). But what I didn't notice untill 
recently was that it is written by Suzi Clarke, who I believe is on this 
list. If so: Great book!
Rebecca Anderson

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 08:23:53 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] query: contemp. ceremonial attire
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:27:34 +0200
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Hello List Fellows,


Who can recall examples of military uniforms used in ceremonies designed 
upon historical patterns (like Ren. of Swiss Guard in Vatican), or folk 
costumes (like Greek guards od honour)?

Also, who can count some among contemporary uses of historical or folk 
dresses in dynastic ceremonies? Among postcards in Sweden there is always a 
set of King's and Queen's photos wearing folk costume. There was a fine 
newspiece example cited here at the List following last Christmas gathering 
in Helsinki, when Prime Minister (a lady) showed up in an archaeological 
replica.

Anyone wants to bet for score bigger than 20/20 of each use?

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Jadran Kale
Muzej grada Sibenika, P.p.7, HR-22001 Sibenik
Croatia:  385  (0) 22 /  213 - 880,  fax  213 - 355
@  http://zupanija.sibenik.museum
¤¤¤¤¤Sent with PINE 4.10 from CARNet¤¤¤¤¤¤

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 08:24:02 2002
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:24:10 +0100
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>You mentioned a book Mel that you bought at 70us but
could have photocopied at 5us

No that wasn't me I'm afraid , it was the poster who mentioned universities
who used to photocopy whole books I think ?

Unless of course I'm going completly mad :))

Mel

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 08:35:58 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Historical Costuming book recommendations
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I forwarded the various messages on book recommendations to Janet from 
medievalbooks.com.  She send me the forwarded reply.  
She is trying to fond costuming books in other languages (other than English) 
to have translated and published. If anyone on this list knows of any good 
costuming books in other languages (other than English) or some in English 
that should be reprinted, please let her know.  She is working with various 
publishers to get this done.
Thanks
Elisabeth

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I forwarded the various messages on book recommendations to Janet from medievalbooks.com.  She send me the forwarded reply.  

She is trying to fond costuming books in other languages (other than English) to have translated and published. If anyone on this list knows of any good costuming books in other languages (other than English) or some in English that should be reprinted, please let her know.  She is working with various publishers to get this done.

Thanks

Elisabeth

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Dear Elizabeth,

Thanks for the forwards from Hcostume.  The first series they were talking a=
bout is a mystery series by the lady who wrote Murder at the War.  If no one=
 else has corrected the poster, Ferris (Mary Monica Pulver) and Margaret Fra=
zer are not the same person.  For many years, Margaret Frazer was 2 ladies,=20=
Mary Monica Pulver (aka Ferris) and Gail Frazer (who we've met at Kalamazoo)=
.  However, for at least the last 6 books, Gail Frazer has been writing them=
 by herself.  If you want to send this as a reply with my name on it, go ahe=
ad.

I could get Women's Dress in the Ancient Greek World, but I thought it reall=
y would be too early.  The Devil's Cloth is the one I got for a discount at=20=
Kalamazoo (and you'd wanted a copy too and there was only 1 left.)  I starte=
d it but haven't gotten very far - so far, it seems more opinion than fact.=20=
 I think I saw the announcement for Dressing Renaissance Florence at Kalamaz=
oo, but I hadn't realized both it and The Silk Industry of Renaissance Venic=
e were from the same publisher.  Maybe I'll have to open a new account.  I'l=
l send the title of the Italian one to Brian Price - I talked to a lady work=
ing on her doctorate in Romance Languages at Pennsic and referred her to him=
.  She's been translating one of those late period fighting manuals like he=20=
publishes, but translating costume books would be more useful.

Janet

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C25DE7.DB843B60
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Dear Elizabeth,


 


Thanks for the forwards from Hcostume. =
; The=20
first series they were talking about is a mystery series by the lady who wro=
te=20
Murder at the War.  If no one else has corrected the poster, Fer=
ris=20
(Mary Monica Pulver) and Margaret Frazer are not the same=20
person.  For many years, Margaret Frazer was 2 ladies, Mary Monica Pulv=
er=20
(aka Ferris) and Gail Frazer (who we've met at Kalamazoo).  However, fo=
r at=20
least the last 6 books, Gail Frazer has been writing them by herself. =20=
If=20
you want to send this as a reply with my name on it, go ahead.


 


I could get Women's Dress in the Ancient=
 Greek=20
World, but I thought it really would be too early.  The Devil's=20
Cloth is the one I got for a discount at Kalamazoo (and you'd wanted&nbs=
p;a=20
copy too and there was only 1 left.)  I started it but haven't gotten v=
ery=20
far - so far, it seems more opinion than fact.  I think I saw the=20
announcement for Dressing Renaissance Florence at Kalamazoo, but I ha=
dn't=20
realized both it and The Silk Industry of Renaissance Venice were fro=
m=20
the same publisher.  Maybe I'll have to open a new account.  I'll=20=
send=20
the title of the Italian one to Brian Price - I talked to a lady working on=20=
her=20
doctorate in Romance Languages at Pennsic and referred her to him.  She=
's=20
been translating one of those late period fighting manuals like he publishes=
,=20
but translating costume books would be more useful.


 


Janet


------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C25DE7.DB843B60--

--part1_2b.2d463500.2ab87aa4_boundary--
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 06:38:41 -0600
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Oh, I had a *great* trip....and having dinner with you and Tom was
certainly one of the high points! It's great to have a "voice" to go
with the words on my screen, although your personality was just about
spot-on with how you come across on the list! ;-)
--sue

Teddy wrote:
> 

> 
> Perhaps I will be able to use the flight to Chicago to worn on my
> costumes for Costume Con then!  Thanks Sue.   Glad you had a
> good visit overhere.
> 
> Teddy
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All right, now, you guys....I've never *been* to a Costume Con....Are
they worth going to? What happens at one? Dish, please!
--sue, who thinks it conflicts with a Kingdom (SCA) event, but who'd
like to (maybe) come anyway, if she can afford it

Teddy wrote:
> 
> > I intend to be at CostumeCon too. Eventually Linda will tell me what
> > I'm going to talk about. ;-)
> 
> I just hope it doesn't clash with anything I'm doing.... Karen, see to it
> will you, please?....
> 
> Teddy
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>>> jkale@public.srce.hr 09/17/02 01:27pm >>>

>Who can recall examples of military uniforms used in ceremonies designed 
>upon historical patterns (like Ren. of Swiss Guard in Vatican), or folk 
>costumes (like Greek guards od honour)?

Well, the Yeomen of the Guard (at the Tower of London) wear a Tudor-style uniform, and the King's Troop of the Royal Horse Artillery (who fire horse-drawn guns for ceremonial salutes) wear a uniform resembling the styles of the Napoleonic era.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] query: contemp. ceremonial attire
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 --- Jadran Kale  wrote: > Hello List Fellows,
> 
> 
> Who can recall examples of military uniforms used in ceremonies designed 
> upon historical patterns (like Ren. of Swiss Guard in Vatican), or folk 
> costumes (like Greek guards od honour)?

Chelsea pensioners, fossilised tricorned and justaucorps from the 18th c., but
coat skirts less wide.
http://www.kipar.org/members/recruitement.jpg
The gentleman on the right doesn't wear his tricorne (they wear those only for
ceremonial occasions).
Yeomen of the guard at the Tower of London.
Redcoat and bearskin hats parade uniforms, 19th c.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From: Robin Netherton 
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On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote:

> All right, now, you guys....I've never *been* to a Costume Con....Are
> they worth going to? What happens at one? Dish, please!

I've never been to one, despite having been in the same city as them (or
very close) at least three times now. So I'd love feedback too. I didn't
go to them in past because I only heard about them from fantasy or
theatrical costumers, and figured I couldn't spare the time and money just
for that. But now I understand there will be (1) significant historical
costuming content, and (2) Teddy.

--Robin


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From: "Martha Kelly" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boningfrom Wissner?
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:14:30 -0300
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Are you referring to the plastic whalebone or the German Plastic boning?  If
it is the German plastic stuff that looks a bit like Rigilene, how does it
compare to steel bones?  What width did you use?  What do you all recommend,
as laying out $100 for boning I've never seen is a bit much?
-Megan





Megan

I have experimented with several kinds of plastic whalebone in
mid-nineteenth-century corsets and bodices.

I personally prefer the "German plastic" over the "plastic whalebone" (these
are Farthingales terms) because it's slightly thinner, more flexible and
easier to cut.  It just "feels" more like real whalebone to me. But the
plastic whalebone is fine, too. The "German" looks like Rigilene in the
picture, but it isn't at all.  Rigilene is sort-of like plastic fish line
woven into a fabric tape. (I use it for quick corset mock-ups because you
can stitch right through it and get instant results.) The ridges you see in
the plastic boning  are deeply incased in plastic - they don't even feel
bumpy, though I assume they're essential to the structure of the stuff.  The
"plastic whalebone" has no ridges at all - it's just milky white plastic.

For me, the 11 mm is the basic size for a corset (I'm talking about c.
1860's).  I love the tiny 5 mm to use at the very CB - outside the lacing
eyelets.  I use it in bodices for the same purpose.  For general boning in a
bodice you might want to try 7mm.

Cut the plastic boning to the proper length.  Round the ends so the tips
won't cut through the tape. Slip the boning into the casings. The plastic
boning has a natural curl from having been coiled.  It isn't necessary to
try to steam the boning flat. Just be sure the bones curve out from the body
like parenthesis. When the bodice is laced, it will hug the torso.

Why would you lay out $100, by the way?  This boning is sold by the meter.
In fact, Farthingales will send you a sample of every size and type.

Martha

PS  I'm not a secret agent for Farthingales - really!  In fact, I'm sure
that Greenberg & Hammer also carries the German plastic and they're nice to
deal with, too.  They just don't have a web site.




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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:55:47 -0400
Status: RO

I attended one in Philly more on a whim than anything else. There was 
indeed a lot of fantasy stuff. There was a good deal of theatre 
stuff. But there was also a huge amount of historical stuff. There 
was a theme but I don't remember what it actually was. There was a 
lot of Victorian and 1830's era things. There were accessories, 
books,  etc. for sale. There were talks about a large variety of 
subjects. Some only on how a group of people made this or that 
costume tat was later in the costume show. I took one on mask making. 
I also took one that the lady who runs AlterYears held. It had to do 
with getting into the business of costuming, all aspects. That was 
informative for me. there were indeed classes on historical subjects. 
The costume/fashion show (can't remember what they called it) was 
fun, a mix of the sci-fi con style with 1-minute presentations and a 
real historical fashion show. I remember one gal who made a near 
perfect Victorian outfit for walking out. She was in the Novice 
category. People kept remarking on how she isn't allowed to be a 
Novice any more. And the winners were a group who did a spoof on the 
Three Musketeers called the Three Mouseketeers. The outfits were 
really nice doublets with these incredibly made, overly large 
mask/headpieces to depict the mousketeers, Deertanian and of course 
the Cardinal.

I'd say it's a mix of both historical and fantasy. As an aspiring 
professional I felt it worth it. As a current professional, I may try 
to swing it as the most recent have been way to far away for me to 
even consider. Your presence would be very welcome.

Linda Krecker-Schkred
(Rhianwen in the SCA)

At 7:55 AM -0500 9/17/02, Robin Netherton wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote:
>
>>  All right, now, you guys....I've never *been* to a Costume Con....Are
>>  they worth going to? What happens at one? Dish, please!
>
>I've never been to one, despite having been in the same city as them (or
>very close) at least three times now. So I'd love feedback too. I didn't
>go to them in past because I only heard about them from fantasy or
>theatrical costumers, and figured I couldn't spare the time and money just
>for that. But now I understand there will be (1) significant historical
>costuming content, and (2) Teddy.
>
>--Robin
>
>
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boningfrom Wissner?
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:22:16 +0200
Status: RO

Dear Megan.
I dont think many of you over at the other side of the big pond know much
about boning from Wissner.
Therefore:
It is the nearest you can get from real whalebone. I used it when i made
Kipars blue Baroque dress from 1660 with the silver lace. The boning comes
in rolls with 30 meters in each roll. You can meassure how long your boning
is to be, and then cut from the roll. You dont get any of these small spare
bones, wich you never can use for anything resonable, so you dont loose a
bit. The boning i got was the narrowest they had and it is 12 m.m. wide. You
cant cut it with ordinary scissors, you must have a real tool to cut. But
the best part of it is that you can use this cutter and cut off the points
in the corners so that your bone gets round in each end, and you dont have
to use sandpaper because it wont get sharp. When you have cut the edges
round they are ready to go into the casings in the corset. It has spared me
a lot of time.
Compared to steel bones, they are very good and very strong. They are
bendable, so that you can shape the bones to your liking.
So if there are some over there who sells Wissners boning you should really
get it a try, I baught 200 meters, the smallest amount you can buy directly
from the factory, so i have a lot of it still.
The reason why i have not used it so much, is that i mostly make 18th.
century stays, and the bones in these stays has to be very narrow, and then
Wissners bones are two broad.
Wissner also makes crinoline steel. Very good. It is steel covered with
white plastic. I have used it very succesfully for paniers, even the large
paniers (2 meter wide)

Bjarne




----- Original Message -----
From: "Martha Kelly" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boningfrom
Wissner?


>
> Are you referring to the plastic whalebone or the German Plastic boning?
If
> it is the German plastic stuff that looks a bit like Rigilene, how does it
> compare to steel bones?  What width did you use?  What do you all
recommend,
> as laying out $100 for boning I've never seen is a bit much?
> -Megan
>
>
>
>
>
> Megan
>
> I have experimented with several kinds of plastic whalebone in
> mid-nineteenth-century corsets and bodices.
>
> I personally prefer the "German plastic" over the "plastic whalebone"
(these
> are Farthingales terms) because it's slightly thinner, more flexible and
> easier to cut.  It just "feels" more like real whalebone to me. But the
> plastic whalebone is fine, too. The "German" looks like Rigilene in the
> picture, but it isn't at all.  Rigilene is sort-of like plastic fish line
> woven into a fabric tape. (I use it for quick corset mock-ups because you
> can stitch right through it and get instant results.) The ridges you see
in
> the plastic boning  are deeply incased in plastic - they don't even feel
> bumpy, though I assume they're essential to the structure of the stuff.
The
> "plastic whalebone" has no ridges at all - it's just milky white plastic.
>
> For me, the 11 mm is the basic size for a corset (I'm talking about c.
> 1860's).  I love the tiny 5 mm to use at the very CB - outside the lacing
> eyelets.  I use it in bodices for the same purpose.  For general boning in
a
> bodice you might want to try 7mm.
>
> Cut the plastic boning to the proper length.  Round the ends so the tips
> won't cut through the tape. Slip the boning into the casings. The plastic
> boning has a natural curl from having been coiled.  It isn't necessary to
> try to steam the boning flat. Just be sure the bones curve out from the
body
> like parenthesis. When the bodice is laced, it will hug the torso.
>
> Why would you lay out $100, by the way?  This boning is sold by the meter.
> In fact, Farthingales will send you a sample of every size and type.
>
> Martha
>
> PS  I'm not a secret agent for Farthingales - really!  In fact, I'm sure
> that Greenberg & Hammer also carries the German plastic and they're nice
to
> deal with, too.  They just don't have a web site.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 12:06:17 2002
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From: "Suzanne" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner?
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:03:03 -0400
Status: RO

The material being referred to is commonly known in the US and Canada as
"Plastic Whalebone" it is the plastic boning from Wissner in Germany that
both  my company, Grannd Garb in the US, and Farthingales in Canada carry.
My comparisons to some real whalebone have lead me to believe it to be one
of the closest materials to replicating the period look of garments made
with whalebone but each person who has compared them has their own opinion
and preferences.

The "German Plastic Boning" is something different that only Farthingales
carries. It acts similar to rigelene/multitex as far as having thinner areas
that can be sewn through, but also acts similar to some thickness of solid
plastic bonings (both of which we carry).

They are all totally different materials and are each best suited to
different uses.

My 2 cents.

Suzanne


http://www.grannd.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 11:22 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset
> boningfrom Wissner?
>
>
> Dear Megan.
> I dont think many of you over at the other side of the big pond know much
> about boning from Wissner.
> Therefore:
> It is the nearest you can get from real whalebone. I used it when i made
> Kipars blue Baroque dress from 1660 with the silver lace. The boning comes
> in rolls with 30 meters in each roll. You can meassure how long
> your boning
> is to be, and then cut from the roll. You dont get any of these
> small spare
> bones, wich you never can use for anything resonable, so you dont loose a
> bit. The boning i got was the narrowest they had and it is 12
> m.m. wide. You
> cant cut it with ordinary scissors, you must have a real tool to cut. But
> the best part of it is that you can use this cutter and cut off the points
> in the corners so that your bone gets round in each end, and you dont have
> to use sandpaper because it wont get sharp. When you have cut the edges
> round they are ready to go into the casings in the corset. It has
> spared me
> a lot of time.
> Compared to steel bones, they are very good and very strong. They are
> bendable, so that you can shape the bones to your liking.
> So if there are some over there who sells Wissners boning you
> should really
> get it a try, I baught 200 meters, the smallest amount you can
> buy directly
> from the factory, so i have a lot of it still.
> The reason why i have not used it so much, is that i mostly make 18th.
> century stays, and the bones in these stays has to be very
> narrow, and then
> Wissners bones are two broad.
> Wissner also makes crinoline steel. Very good. It is steel covered with
> white plastic. I have used it very succesfully for paniers, even the large
> paniers (2 meter wide)
>
> Bjarne
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martha Kelly" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:14 PM
> Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset
> boningfrom
> Wissner?
>
>
> >
> > Are you referring to the plastic whalebone or the German Plastic boning?
> If
> > it is the German plastic stuff that looks a bit like Rigilene,
> how does it
> > compare to steel bones?  What width did you use?  What do you all
> recommend,
> > as laying out $100 for boning I've never seen is a bit much?
> > -Megan

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
From: sylvia 
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:04:24 -0600
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on 9/17/02 2:19 AM, Kate M Bunting at K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk wrote:


> 
> I was a child in the 50s. My mother didn't wear a girdle either, being as
> skinny as I am now, or even a bra most of the time; just a vest (?undershirt
> to Americans) of knitted cotton or fine wool.
> 
>Gee, I thought all women wore girdles in the 50s, maybe because even up to the
mid 60s they were in style and thin girls like me wore them in high school,
although we didn't need to.

Sylvia R

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> And yes in more elabortate cases of books e copies are as expensive. But not
> in acedemic reports such as archaeological digs etc, the print costs push
> the work into the unaffordable by many, wheras the CD & print off your own
> as you desired would be .



>
>
> Shouldn't do print on demand here is very high quality & fast & cheaper than
> offset. Many acedemic reports are going that way here.
>



E-books and print on demand are both ways to produce small numbers of books,
when needed, thereby making it easier to publish books for a possibly small
market and reducing warehouse costs.  However, I don't expect e-books to become
a dominant format, at least not without better screen resolution and significant
changes in readers' habits.  Academic reports can have a highly targeted
audience and be pretty much mandatory reading for it. Readers will probably put
up with whatever format the report is in even if they dislike it.  I think
reference works such as dictionaries are ideal for electronic format because you
must search them, and don't actually _read_ them.  But otherwise . . . .CD books
were touted as the coming thing some years before e-books were, but CD books
have been a flop on the market.

I do expect print on demand to eventually become far more popular.  I also
expect it to induce publishers to reprint many more out-of-print books. In fact,
it's not unlikely that even books with a rather large initial audience will
initially be printed offset. Then the publisher will switch to POD after the
initial print run has been sold,  if demand has dropped, rather than putting the
book out of print  But that day isn't here yet. I don't know what kind of POD
equipment they use in the UK.  But in the US POD is laser printer quality, in a
very limited range of book sizes, on a very limited selection of paper, with a
not very durable or attractive binding--all for a higher unit cost than an
offset print run.  And since most printers don't yet have POD equipment, the POD
printers get enough business that most deliver more slowly than an offset
printer.

I'll switch to POD myself when the equipment and prices are as good as for
offset printing--but I think that will be a few years.



> No there are 99% of printed books ever printed, are out of print, most of
> these will catagorically never be printed again. Ok maybe I can't guess
> which maybe. But in the meantime it is the person hungry for knowledge that
> suffers, most of the authors are long dead & don't care.

I think we've agreed though, that copyright violation is theft and that these
are not valid reasons for someone to make an illegal copy.  The reader's need or
desire does not outweigh the rights of the copyright owner.  A lot of people
making their own copies does incrementally cut into sales, or, if the work is
out of print, the value of reprinting it.

Fran


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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:35:17 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

> A lot of people
> making their own copies does incrementally cut into
> sales, or, if the work is
> out of print, the value of reprinting it.
> Fran

Hhhhmmm. Not so sure if I agree with this when it
comes to out-of-print books. It seems to me that an
excess of copies being passed around is a sure sign
that a book is woefully needed on the market. A
re-issue would gladly be snapped up by almost all of
the copy-havers, in addition to a nameless mass of
folks who don't even yet have copies but will take the
path of least resistence once they know the book is
available again for a reasonable price.

For instance, I have much-used and previously-copied
copies of books like Margaret Scott's _Late Gothic
Europe: 1400-1500_ and a portion of Poul Norlund's
Buried Norseman work, but I would replace them in a
heartbeat with the real thing, if I could get a clean
book version at a reasonable price. I also gladly
spent two hours and $70 to copy _A Pictorial History
of Embroidery_, color plates included, because that
$300-$400 price tag is just out of my budget range for
such things. If the book were re-issued for $100,
brand-new, I'd make it happen and save my copied
version as a set of handy one-offs to show others as
needed.

Tasha

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 14:48:06 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] copoyright infringement/Katie's baby
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Congratulations Katie,
       I went to a Pennsic during the morning sick
phase of my first pregnancy, two weeks after the "I
looked fine in my garb and then overnight got huge
phase" so I didn't have time to sew alot.   A ropa is
a good idea as is a houppelande.   If you check out
the research on the Shinrone gown, the author (name
escapes me at the moment) points out that the gown has
some removeable darts sewn in and that if you take the
darts out then the gown only hangs correctly on a
pregnant woman.  Given that yearly babies were a
reality even up to my grandmother's time you might
consider making your gown for the last trimester and
then basting in darts to fit your current size.  If
you take the darts out before washing your gown it
shouldn't mark the fabric much (wool is very forgiving
that way).  Or try taking in the side seams and/or
using several shallow darts, releasing one on either
side as you get bigger.  I had 3 kids in under three
years (1 newborn, one 10 month old and a 2 year old at
one time) so got really good at fudging the fit on my
garb.
     As to the copyright discussion... Most of my
quilt instruction and pattern manuals explicitly state
that I can make a garment or design from their pages
as long as it is not for resale.  So if I make a
quilted or appliqued garment I can give it away but
not sell it.  What about the copying of something like
chapter 6 of Buried Norsemen?   Or if I copy select
bits of a book so I can work on a gown for myself?  I
printed out a copu of the Helena Snakenborg portrait
so I could take it to work and try sketching the roses
on the shift.  I don't make things for resale and I
would dearly love to own my own copy of many books but
getting one, even used, is often problematical.  Has
anyone ever seen a copy of Fabric of Society by Tozer
and Levitt for sale somewhere?  As far as I can tell
it was an exhibition book printed in 1983 and it has
some really great photos from the costume museum at
Bath, great for my current  museum project but,but
,but
the library where I usually check it out has pulled
their copy because it was falling apart.  They won't
repair it because it's not a high use item and they
won't sell me the damaged copy.  Now I have to
interlibrary loan it from the local university. 
Extreme hassle when I just need access to one chapter.
I understand the theft angle (husband collects rare
books) but the difficulty in getting information
sometimes just drives me nuts, especially when I know
the info is out there.
     And now back to the Elizabethan shift....What
type of drawn thread work is period.  My linen
remnants aren't long enough unless I piece them
together and Fashion in Detail shows a shirt with a
separate shoulder piece,  which is almost exactly
where I need to piece.  Help?
                        Cassandra (grumpy because sick
child is keeping her home from the museum today)




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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:54:05 -0700
Status: RO


Tasha McGann wrote:

> > A lot of people
> > making their own copies does incrementally cut into
> > sales, or, if the work is
> > out of print, the value of reprinting it.
> > Fran
>
> Hhhhmmm. Not so sure if I agree with this when it
> comes to out-of-print books. It seems to me that an
> excess of copies being passed around is a sure sign
> that a book is woefully needed on the market.

If there many illegal copies, this has weakened the market and the
publisher is less likely to reprint. Many people _won't_ bother
replacing their photocopy with "the real thing."


>
> re-issue would gladly be snapped up by almost all of
> the copy-havers, in addition to a nameless mass of
> folks who don't even yet have copies but will take the
> path of least resistence once they know the book is
> available again for a reasonable price.

>  If the book were re-issued for $100,
> brand-new, I'd make it happen and save my copied
> version as a set of handy one-offs to show others as
> needed.

The price of the book being too high for you does not mean the price
is unreasonable.  More to the point, it does not make copying legal.

Fran


---------------------------------------------
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Books on historic costume and vintage clothes
http://www.lavoltapress.com
Historic and vintage dance
http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 15:16:11 2002
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From: Elizabeth Lear 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Katie's baby
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:12:36 -0600
Status: RO


Another garb idea: Russian sarafans.  I wear them all the time now
because they're comfy, and I've loaned them out to 8.5 month pregnant
women.  The dress is full, and hangs from the shoulders.

	http://medievalrussia.freeservers.com/dak-sarafan.html
	http://sca-garb.freeservers.com/articles/sarafan.html

					...eliz
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 15:40:07 2002
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From: "Helen  Partner" 
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:53:19 +0100
Status: RO

Please can I make an impassioned plea??

Echoing what someone said yesterday and at the risk of being thought
rude..may I respectfully suggest that this discussion now has very little
relevance to costuming etc etc?  Can we move on, or move
off-line..please...my in- box is clogged enough!!

Regards

Helen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lavolta Press" 
To: 
Sent: 17 September 2002 19:54
Subject: Re: [h-cost] copies and rare books; was: International Copyrights


>
> Tasha McGann wrote:
>
> > > A lot of people
> > > making their own copies does incrementally cut into
> > > sales, or, if the work is
> > > out of print, the value of reprinting it.
> > > Fran
> >
> > Hhhhmmm. Not so sure if I agree with this when it
> > comes to out-of-print books. It seems to me that an
> > excess of copies being passed around is a sure sign
> > that a book is woefully needed on the market.
>
> If there many illegal copies, this has weakened the market and the
> publisher is less likely to reprint. Many people _won't_ bother
> replacing their photocopy with "the real thing."
>
>
> >
> > re-issue would gladly be snapped up by almost all of
> > the copy-havers, in addition to a nameless mass of
> > folks who don't even yet have copies but will take the
> > path of least resistence once they know the book is
> > available again for a reasonable price.
>
> >  If the book were re-issued for $100,
> > brand-new, I'd make it happen and save my copied
> > version as a set of handy one-offs to show others as
> > needed.
>
> The price of the book being too high for you does not mean the price
> is unreasonable.  More to the point, it does not make copying legal.
>
> Fran
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Visit our web pages!
> Books on historic costume and vintage clothes
> http://www.lavoltapress.com
> Historic and vintage dance
> http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 15:49:12 2002
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From: "Helen  Partner" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in my cunning plan for an Elizabethian
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:00:24 +0100
Status: RO

I'll second that congrats!

My baby was born near;ly 7 months ago and I still vividly remember trying to
squeeeeeze into stays/bodies at 9 weeks, too!  I can't give any advice (out
of my period) other than make it biiggg!  If you're going to feed your baby
yourself, then make allowances for any upper garments, too, for after the
birth.  Although I've lost loads of weight, it still hasn't come off my
rather "ample"  bosom  ;-0 You could of course be very different, but it's
something to bear in mind for afterwards..it's not like you can pop to the
local shops to buy "off-the-peg"!

Good luck

Helen
----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: 17 September 2002 08:03
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in my cunning plan
for an Elizabethian


> --- Katie Lewis  wrote: > Well, maybe not a flaw,
but
> definately a complication.
> > To recap, I want to make a gathered kirtle out of linen, to be worn
under a
> > loose gown made out of wool.
> > Then, last month, just as I was preparing to draft the patterns...I
found out
> > that I am pregnant.  Now I'm quite happy about the pregnancy but it does
> > rather complicate matters wrt the sewing :)
>
> First of all congratulations!
> second, I have NO experience with being pregnant, so caveat emptor here.
> Third, did you see the wonderful Ropa that one of the ladies from I think
> Bristol fair made? I think she is on Margo's patern list, and she looked
SUPERB
> in it when she went to the fair TWO weeks before she was due. I am just
> wondering, perhaps of you went for something completely different this
time,
> for a ropa, then you wouldn't have to worry, and just make the kirtle gown
> after the baby is born?
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
> Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:48:53 -0400
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I've been to 2,  about 10 years ago.   I stopped going because I didn't
really know anyone to talk to, and that got lonely.
   But some of the skits were hilarious - the one where the bad guy tried to
rip the bodice off of someone, which of course didn't just rip off,  and he
bounced off a hoop skirt,  etc, etc,  until he finally went and got  a chain
saw and chased her off the stage,  that was a classic send-off on all
"bodice ripper" novels!
    It wasn't easy to talk to anyone for more than a couple of minutes
though - everyone was busy with their own groups of friends.
Rowena

> > All right, now, you guys....I've never *been* to a Costume Con....Are
> > they worth going to? What happens at one? Dish, please!
>
> I've never been to one, despite having been in the same city as them (or
> very close) at least three times now. So I'd love feedback too. I didn't
> go to them in past because I only heard about them from fantasy or
> theatrical costumers, and figured I couldn't spare the time and money just
> for that. But now I understand there will be (1) significant historical
> costuming content, and (2) Teddy.


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 15:56:09 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning
	from Wissner?
From: sylvia 
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:37:18 -0600
Status: RO

I'm still trying to determine if the plastic boning I got from Endsdown
Enterprises is the same as the boning some of you are describing as German
plastic boning or Wissner plastic boning.  I've tried calling Endsdown and
no one answers the phone, so maybe they went out of business.

I looked more carefully at the samples they sent me and their boning
consists of a piece of plastic that is folded over twice.  It's white, quite
narrow and very flexible.  Does anyone know what this is?


Sylvia Rognstad
-- 
Divinity Designs and Emeralds
http://www.d-e-designs.com

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 16:03:54 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] International Copyrights
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:02:19 -0500 (CDT)
Status: RO


Just a postscript to this conversation.

Fran summed up much of this conversation accurately as follows:

> I think we've agreed though, that copyright violation is theft and
> that these are not valid reasons for someone to make an illegal copy.  
> The reader's need or desire does not outweigh the rights of the
> copyright owner.  A lot of people making their own copies does
> incrementally cut into sales, or, if the work is out of print, the
> value of reprinting it.

Since all the conversation so far has focused on books that have already
been printed, and the monetary value thereof based on sales, I did want to
point out that copyright also covers material put into writing that has
*not* been printed.

I have research that is not yet formally published. Right now, there's one
appendix and two book chapters for books still in various stages of
editing/production. I also have a proposal sitting on a journal
publisher's desk. And more that I hope to write up at some time. I will
not make any money off any of these publications when they appear, but I
will be making a contribution to the literature. As an independent scholar
whose foothold in academia is precarious as it is, this is very important
to me and to my credibility.

In the meantime, though, I present much of this material in lecture
format, both at academic conferences and at guest lectures and workshops.
My handouts all have a line on them reminding people that I own the
copyright and the handouts are not to be copied and reprinted without my
direct permission.

If someone webbed my handouts, or if someone tape-recorded one of my
lectures, transcribed it, and published it, I wouldn't exactly be losing
sales, because there's nothing to be sold. But it could ruin my chances
for publishing the material in a peer-reviewed journal. Journals won't
take something that has already been published -- regardless of who
published it or whether they had the authority to do so.

Some well-meaning people, oddly, have interpreted my efforts to maintain
control over my work as meaning that I don't want it to be cited. People
have even assumed they can reproduce some of my work in their contest
documentation, class handouts, or SCA newsletters as long as they *don't*
mention my name, because "Robin doesn't want it published"! No no no no
no. It's fine to use what I've taught, but for heaven's sake, credit me
with the work I've spent years doing! (I'm happy to supply citation
information for people who aren't sure how to do this correctly.)

I'm sorry to say that I periodically run into an article written by a
student of mine, describing in close detail methods I taught that person
in a class or workshop, at some points with the same words I used at the
time, but with no reference at all to the fact that those ideas and
methods originated with me. Those ideas, then, become associated with the
person who published the articles, who is assumed to be the originator.
That causes damage to me -- measured not in dollars, but in reputation and
credibility.

So copyright is very, very important to me, even without a monetary
factor. What's at stake is my ability to control the distribution of my
work, and also my ability to ensure that my name remains associated with
my work.

I'm happy to share my findings and happy to see them used. But I do
understand why some academics will not lecture to SCA or other hobbyist
groups, or why some will not even respond to questions from individuals.
If I find that the degree of unauthorized "lifting" becomes intolerable, I
would have to do the same. I sincerely hope this does not happen. Which is
why I do my best to educate my audiences about what that copyright notice
means, and why it's there.

--Robin

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:58:25 -0700
Status: RO


> > I was a child in the 50s. My mother didn't wear a girdle either, being as
> > skinny as I am now, or even a bra most of the time; just a vest 
> (?undershirt
> > to Americans) of knitted cotton or fine wool.
> >
> >Gee, I thought all women wore girdles in the 50s, maybe because even up 
> to the
>mid 60s they were in style and thin girls like me wore them in high school,
>although we didn't need to.

Obviously, you didn't grow up in California ;)  I was never thin, but never 
wore a girdle in all of the 50s-60s.  I had an aunt who would have made me 
wear one if, indeed, everybody was wearing them (the maiden-aunt full of 
child-raising advice).  But she stopped wearing them in the 50s, I think.


Kayta

    //// \\\
   ////-@@\\\
  ((((   7 )))
   (((  <> ))))
      )   ((((((
/----\   /---\))

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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] query: contemp. ceremonial attire
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020917135606.00a5e080@jagor.srce.hr>
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:37:26 +0100
Status: RO

N Kipar  wrote
> --- Jadran Kale  wrote: > Hello List Fellows,
>>
>>
>> Who can recall examples of military uniforms used in ceremonies designed
>> upon historical patterns (like Ren. of Swiss Guard in Vatican), or folk
>> costumes (like Greek guards od honour)?
>
>Chelsea pensioners, fossilised tricorned and justaucorps from the 18th c., but
>coat skirts less wide.
>http://www.kipar.org/members/recruitement.jpg
>The gentleman on the right doesn't wear his tricorne (they wear those only for
>ceremonial occasions).
>Yeomen of the guard at the Tower of London.
>Redcoat and bearskin hats parade uniforms, 19th c.
>
>Nicole
>
Can anyone think of a British regiment whose dress uniform reflects 
actual day-to-day garments later than 1900?  (I'm talking Army here, RAF 
and women don't count, and the Royal Navy has mostly updated).

Jean
-- 
Jean Waddie
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:44:50 +0100
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N Kipar  wrote
> --- Jean Waddie  wrote: >
>
>> May I brag?  We have today finished a new pair of hose for himself
>> (banded hose for Hastings) - and our season isn't even over yet!  And
>> I've done all the mending and started on the new kit too.
>
>Shocking!!! *laughs*
>Okay, so I am still working on roll hemming His Nib's new fine linen cravat.
>Thanks to kat I know how to roll hem now, but Kat, I am still slow and I still
>don't like it. ;-)
>
>> Bets on this industriousness lasting out September?
>
>Okay.... a packet of German chokki biccies that it doesn't?
>
>Nicole
>
Tell you what, you can owe them to me for Kirby Hall next year if I turn 
up with my green dress embroidered at hem, cuffs and neck.  I have 
measured the lengths, I have the cloth sitting on the table to cut the 
strips... I HATE embroidery, and I've never yet finished anything!  This 
is the real challenge for the winter.  How many other garments will I 
make to avoid doing embroidery?

Jean

-- 
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On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:48:53 -0400
 "Rowena"  wrote:
> > > All right, now, you guys....I've never *been* to a
> Costume Con....Are
> > > they worth going to? What happens at one? Dish,
> please!

I had written a long response, but got disconnected as it
was sending, and so was lost :-(  Let me try again.

Each CostumeCon may have a theme, but that's mostly so that
there is some direction for the Friday Night Social.

The International Costumers Guild encourages costuming in
all its forms.  There is programming ranging from detailed
historical topics to "How to Make a Mascot Outfit", "How to
Move in a Costume", or "How to Make a Prop Gun Out of
Junk".

There are 2 masquerades.  Think of them as 1 minute
performance art, showing the costume(s) choreographed to
music or words.  There are presentation judges out front,
and a workmanship judge backstage.  Our belief is that
excellence deserves reward, so there are awards for all
costumes the judges think are particularly well-shown or
well-constructed.  Separate competitions are held for
science fiction/fantasy costumes and historical ones, plus
a fashion show based on "Future Fashion" designs (a folio
competition held prior to the con).

Please check out www.costume-con.org for information on
upcoming conventions and pictures of past costumes.  In
response to an earlier post, here is a picture of the Three
Mooseketeers:
http://www.costume-con.org/CClink/CC17-Photos/SF24.shtml

They actually competed in the fantasy masquerade; although
they won some awards, Best in Show went to this Minotaur:
http://www.costume-con.org/CClink/CC17-Photos/SF23.shtml

The novice Historical costumer mentioned had this outfit:
http://www.costume-con.org/CClink/CC17-Photos/H07.shtml

Since she competes at a higher level in SF/fantasy, it
could be argued she should have started at Journeyman
anyway.  Best in Show for Historical was this (hang on,
this is a little longwinded)recreation of an 19th century
interpretation of a Turkish harem girl's outfit:
http://www.costume-con.org/CClink/CC17-Photos/H06.shtml

Please look around the site.  The range of costumes is
amazing.  I think there should be more exchanges of
information amongst various costuming groups; we each have
so much to offer, yet so often we stay within our own
little circle.
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
From: sylvia 
To: 
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:40:11 -0600
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on 9/17/02 1:58 PM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows at kayta@frys.com wrote:

> 
>>> I was a child in the 50s. My mother didn't wear a girdle either, being as
>>> skinny as I am now, or even a bra most of the time; just a vest
>> (?undershirt
>>> to Americans) of knitted cotton or fine wool.
>>> 
>>> Gee, I thought all women wore girdles in the 50s, maybe because even up
>> to the
>> mid 60s they were in style and thin girls like me wore them in high school,
>> although we didn't need to.
> 
> Obviously, you didn't grow up in California ;)  I was never thin, but never
> wore a girdle in all of the 50s-60s.  I had an aunt who would have made me
> wear one if, indeed, everybody was wearing them (the maiden-aunt full of
> child-raising advice).  But she stopped wearing them in the 50s, I think.
> 
> Au contraire.  I lived most of my life in southern California.

Sylvia

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] drawnwork (was copyright)
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>>>>>And now back to the Elizabethan shift....What
type of drawn thread work is period.  My linen
remnants aren't long enough unless I piece them
together and Fashion in Detail shows a shirt with a
separate shoulder piece,  which is almost exactly
where I need to piece.  Help?
                        Cassandra (grumpy because sick
child is keeping her home from the museum today)



Drawnwork - I'm going to blather inanely at you, because my books I need 
to specifically reference are all at home.  ;<


"Known to England by the fifties, drawn-work was used for smocks, ruffs, 
rails, and other neckwear, besides such household as cushion-cloths of the 
kind which Bianca of "Women Beware Women" desires for the furnishing of 
her chamber." Linthicum p140

I define drawnwork as the needlework technique in which you withdraw 
either warp or weft threads, reweaving a small section at each end to 
strengthen the edges, and then catch together the remaining threads in a 
decorative fashion.  Hemstitching is a variation of drawnwork, in which 
only a couple of threads (usually weft) are withdrawn near an edge, and 
the process of catching the warp threads includes sewing down a rolled 
hem.

One of the techniques used in period to connect two pieces of fabric is 
"plaited insertion stitch."    (It is also called in various incarnations 
- interlace insertion stitch, faggoting, and braided insertion stitch.) 
For a very simplistic version, look under faggoting in the stitch glossary 
at:
http://www.classicstitches.com/know_how/index.cfm 
Plaited insertion stitch is one of the stitches used in that Italian style 
shirt in _Fashion in Detail_.  It's the one that gives the braided, almost 
lace-like, look to the seams.  Looking at the description and the picture, 
it seems to me that the seams have been hemmed using hemstitch and then 
joined using the plaited insertion stitch.

If that's too complicated/time-consuming, many of the shirts I have pics 
of have been joined with a buttonhole insertion stitch, where one side 
gets buttonholed, then the other side, giving a kind of checker block 
effect.  The blue columbine embroidered boy's shirt at the Museum of 
Costume  (good pic in Levy's Lace book of the underarm gusset) has been 
joined with a fancy version of the stitch.  The embroidered monochrome 
smock with the rainbows has the basic buttonhole insertion stitch at the 
sides.  (good pics in QEW).

Does that answer your question, or did I go off in the totally wrong 
direction?  If so, let me know which direction you'd like me to 
pontificate in.  ;>  I'll even find my books so that I make a little more 
sense...

-Magdalena
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boning from Wissner?
To: h-costume@indra.com
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 --- sylvia  wrote: > 
> I looked more carefully at the samples they sent me and their boning
> consists of a piece of plastic that is folded over twice.  It's white, quite
> narrow and very flexible.  Does anyone know what this is?

That doesn't sound like Wissner's plastic whalebone at all. Can't help you as
to what it is, only as to what it isn't. :-)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: [h-cost] introduction + remaindered book
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Elisabeth has forwarded mail on occasion from me to this list and book =
recommendations back to me, but I decided that I had better join the =
list myself even if I am not a costume specialist. =20

A week or two ago, someone on this list was trying to find the Museum of =
the City of London books on the medieval artifacts they've dug up and =
Elisabeth referred her to me.  When she e-mailed me, she asked about In =
Royal Fashion, which is also published by the Museum of London and thus =
is almost impossible to get in the U.S.  Something about that title =
sounded familiar and today I managed to track it down in a recent =
catalog from a British remainder dealer. =20

This is not something I would normally carry, as I go no later than =
1650, but it occurred to me that there may be others on this list who =
would want a copy.  I would be willing to order in copies for specific =
people who let me know that they want one.  The discount isn't great for =
a remainder - list price is 14.95GBP and I would be selling it for =
$13.50 - but with the Museum of London, availability is more important =
than price and if they're sending it to the remainder dealer, they may =
be putting it out of print.

This is the catalog description:

Drawing on the Museum of London's unparalleled collection of royal =
costume, this finely presented, lavishly illustrated and detailed study =
presents the clothes of the statuesque but gauche Princess Charlotte of =
Wales and of Queen Victoria as child and bright fashionable young woman =
before widowhood reduced her choice of colour. Includes extracts from =
letters, diaries and fashion journals and discussions on authentication =
and preservation of the clothes. Colour and b&w. 11" x 9".

Sounds good to me...  Anyone who wants a copy should e-mail me by =
Sunday, September 22 as I should place my order soon before they run out =
of the things I want.  I charge $6 shipping for the first book and 50 =
cents for each additional book (this title or something else).  It will =
probably be a couple months before the books get here from England (sent =
by slow boat to save money) but your credit card will not be charged =
until they are actually here.

Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.com=20

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C25E7B.52660040
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Elisabeth has forwarded mail on =
occasion from me to=20
this list and book recommendations back to me, but I decided that I had =
better=20
join the list myself even if I am not a costume specialist.  =



 


A week or two ago, someone on this list =
was trying=20
to find the Museum of the City of London books on the medieval artifacts =
they've=20
dug up and Elisabeth referred her to me.  When she e-mailed me, she =
asked=20
about In Royal Fashion, which is also published by the Museum of =
London=20
and thus is almost impossible to get in the U.S.  Something about =
that=20
title sounded familiar and today I managed to track it down in a recent =
catalog=20
from a British remainder dealer.  


 


This is not something I would normally =
carry, as I=20
go no later than 1650, but it occurred to me that there may be others on =
this=20
list who would want a copy.  I would be willing to order in copies =
for=20
specific people who let me know that they want one.  The discount =
isn't=20
great for a remainder - list price is 14.95GBP and I would be selling it =
for=20
$13.50 - but with the Museum of London, availability is more important =
than=20
price and if they're sending it to the remainder dealer, they may be =
putting it=20
out of print.


 


This is the catalog =
description:


 


Drawing on the Museum of London's =
unparalleled=20
collection of royal costume, this finely presented, lavishly illustrated =
and=20
detailed study presents the clothes of the statuesque but gauche =
Princess=20
Charlotte of Wales and of Queen Victoria as child and bright fashionable =
young=20
woman before widowhood reduced her choice of colour. Includes extracts =
from=20
letters, diaries and fashion journals and discussions on authentication =
and=20
preservation of the clothes. Colour and b&w. 11" x 9".


 


Sounds good to me...  Anyone who =
wants a copy=20
should e-mail me by Sunday, September 22 as I should place my order soon =
before=20
they run out of the things I want.  I charge $6 shipping for the =
first book=20
and 50 cents for each additional book (this title or something =
else).  It=20
will probably be a couple months before the books get here from England =
(sent by=20
slow boat to save money) but your credit card will not be charged until =
they are=20
actually here.


 


Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.co=
m=20



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To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:03:19 -0500
Status: RO

Nicole,
Thanks to another member on this list, I found out about this site:
http://vickisnylons.com/
They sell the pointy bras and the seamed stockings.
Good luck on the costume!

Sheryl Nance-Durst

At 07:05 PM 9/16/02 +0100, you wrote:
>I wondered if anyone here knows (though perhaps I should ask on a vintage
>list?) I got all the missing original bits from the nice curator (re-enactor
>too :-) of the Red Cross museum for my 1950s nurse uniform and am ready to go,
>so to speak, but would like to get everything together including the proper
>underwear and stockings. I don't have a clue what women wore in the 1950s, 
>does
>anyone know of a place to find out or ask? I had a look on the net but 
>couldn't
>find much.
>Thanks!
>
>Nicole
>
>=====
>Nicole Kipar M.A.
>Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
>Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/
>Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Everything you'll ever need on one web page
>from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
>http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
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To: 
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I would be interested, and could probably find something in your store =
to add to the order (saw several titles that looked fun) Sorry, to all =
for not replying off list, but it wouldn't give me an email address in =
Outlook.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes=20
Theatrical Costume Design
"Nay then, let the devil wear black,=20
for I'll have a suit of sables..."
W. Shakespeare

http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
  ----- Original Message ----- =20
  From: Janet Davis=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 3:52 PM
  Subject: [h-cost] introduction + remaindered book


  Elisabeth has forwarded mail on occasion from me to this list and book =
recommendations back to me, but I decided that I had better join the =
list myself even if I am not a costume specialist. =20

  A week or two ago, someone on this list was trying to find the Museum =
of the City of London books on the medieval artifacts they've dug up and =
Elisabeth referred her to me.  When she e-mailed me, she asked about In =
Royal Fashion, which is also published by the Museum of London and thus =
is almost impossible to get in the U.S.  Something about that title =
sounded familiar and today I managed to track it down in a recent =
catalog from a British remainder dealer. =20

  This is not something I would normally carry, as I go no later than =
1650, but it occurred to me that there may be others on this list who =
would want a copy.  I would be willing to order in copies for specific =
people who let me know that they want one.  The discount isn't great for =
a remainder - list price is 14.95GBP and I would be selling it for =
$13.50 - but with the Museum of London, availability is more important =
than price and if they're sending it to the remainder dealer, they may =
be putting it out of print.

  This is the catalog description:

  Drawing on the Museum of London's unparalleled collection of royal =
costume, this finely presented, lavishly illustrated and detailed study =
presents the clothes of the statuesque but gauche Princess Charlotte of =
Wales and of Queen Victoria as child and bright fashionable young woman =
before widowhood reduced her choice of colour. Includes extracts from =
letters, diaries and fashion journals and discussions on authentication =
and preservation of the clothes. Colour and b&w. 11" x 9".

  Sounds good to me...  Anyone who wants a copy should e-mail me by =
Sunday, September 22 as I should place my order soon before they run out =
of the things I want.  I charge $6 shipping for the first book and 50 =
cents for each additional book (this title or something else).  It will =
probably be a couple months before the books get here from England (sent =
by slow boat to save money) but your credit card will not be charged =
until they are actually here.

  Janet Davis
  Castle Furnishings
  http://www.medievalbookstore.com 
------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C25E66.93997CA0
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I would be interested, and could =
probably find=20
something in your store to add to the order (saw several titles that =
looked fun)=20
Sorry, to all for not replying off list, but it wouldn't give me an =
email=20
address in Outlook.


 


angela


+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage =
Rose Costumes=20

Theatrical Costume Design
"Nay then, let the devil wear black, =

for=20
I'll have a suit of sables..."
W. Shakespeare


 


http://www.cabbagerosecostume=
s.com



  
----- Original Message -----  =


  From:=20
  Janet =
Davis 
  
  
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, =
2002 3:52=20
  PM

  
Subject: [h-cost] introduction =
+=20
  remaindered book

  


  
Elisabeth has forwarded mail on =
occasion from me=20
  to this list and book recommendations back to me, but I decided that I =
had=20
  better join the list myself even if I am not a costume =
specialist. =20
  

  
 

  
A week or two ago, someone on this =
list was=20
  trying to find the Museum of the City of London books on the medieval=20
  artifacts they've dug up and Elisabeth referred her to me.  When =
she=20
  e-mailed me, she asked about In Royal Fashion, which is also =
published=20
  by the Museum of London and thus is almost impossible to get in the =
U.S. =20
  Something about that title sounded familiar and today I managed to =
track it=20
  down in a recent catalog from a British remainder dealer.  =


  
 

  
This is not something I would =
normally carry, as=20
  I go no later than 1650, but it occurred to me that there may be =
others on=20
  this list who would want a copy.  I would be willing to order in =
copies=20
  for specific people who let me know that they want one.  The =
discount=20
  isn't great for a remainder - list price is 14.95GBP and I would be =
selling it=20
  for $13.50 - but with the Museum of London, availability is more =
important=20
  than price and if they're sending it to the remainder dealer, they may =
be=20
  putting it out of print.

  
 

  
This is the catalog =
description:

  
 

  
Drawing on the Museum of London's =
unparalleled=20
  collection of royal costume, this finely presented, lavishly =
illustrated and=20
  detailed study presents the clothes of the statuesque but gauche =
Princess=20
  Charlotte of Wales and of Queen Victoria as child and bright =
fashionable young=20
  woman before widowhood reduced her choice of colour. Includes extracts =
from=20
  letters, diaries and fashion journals and discussions on =
authentication and=20
  preservation of the clothes. Colour and b&w. 11" x =
9".

  
 

  
Sounds good to me...  Anyone who =
wants a=20
  copy should e-mail me by Sunday, September 22 as I should place my =
order soon=20
  before they run out of the things I want.  I charge $6 shipping =
for the=20
  first book and 50 cents for each additional book (this title or =
something=20
  else).  It will probably be a couple months before the books get =
here=20
  from England (sent by slow boat to save money) but your credit card =
will not=20
  be charged until they are actually here.

  
 

  
Janet Davis
Castle =
Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.co=
m=20
  


------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C25E66.93997CA0--


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 19:37:08 2002
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Here is another message from Janet.  If anyone is interested in the book she 
is talking about please contact her directly.
Thanks
Elisabeth

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Here is another message from Janet.  If anyone is interested in the book she is talking about please contact her directly.

Thanks

Elisabeth

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Dear Elisabeth,

Maybe I should just break down and join the h-costume list.  The lady who wa=
nted the Museum of the City of London books e-mailed me a few days ago and s=
he was also looking for In Royal Fashion, another book they have published t=
hat covers Princess Charlotte of Wales and Queen Victoria.  Normally, I woul=
d have nothing to do with it, but the description rang a bell and and today=20=
I tracked it down.  One of my British remainder dealers had it in their most=
 recent catalog - the discount isn't very much, but at least the book can be=
 gotten. =20

This is too late for me to normally carry, but if others on the costume list=
 are looking for it, I could order as many copies as I can get commitments f=
or.  I'd need to order them all at once, within the next week or so - the lo=
nger I wait, the more likely they will sell out.

Anyway, thank you for bringing up the topic of books that need translating o=
r reprinting. =20

Janet

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Dear Elisabeth,


 


Maybe I should just break down and join the=
=20
h-costume list.  The lady who wanted the Museum of the City of London b=
ooks=20
e-mailed me a few days ago and she was also looking for In Royal Fashion<=
/U>,=20
another book they have published that covers Princess Charlotte of Wales and=
=20
Queen Victoria.  Normally, I would have nothing to do with it, but the=20
description rang a bell and and today I tracked it down.  One of my Bri=
tish=20
remainder dealers had it in their most recent catalog - the discount isn't v=
ery=20
much, but at least the book can be gotten.  


 


This is too late for me to normally carry,=20=
but if=20
others on the costume list are looking for it, I could order as many copies=20=
as I=20
can get commitments for.  I'd need to order them all at once, within th=
e=20
next week or so - the longer I wait, the more likely they will sell=20
out.


 


Anyway, thank you for bringing up the topic=
 of=20
books that need translating or reprinting.  


 


Janet


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I apologize to everyone.  I did not realize that Janet now is subscribed to 
the list herself.  Many of you may know her from Kalamazoo or other SCA 
events.  I know I have forwarded emails for her before.  I am so glad that 
she is now part of this group.  She can really help all of us in getting 
books!!!!!
Thank you for understanding
Elisabeth

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I apologize to everyone.  I did not realize that Janet now is subscribed to the list herself.  Many of you may know her from Kalamazoo or other SCA events.  I know I have forwarded emails for her before.  I am so glad that she is now part of this group.  She can really help all of us in getting books!!!!!

Thank you for understanding

Elisabeth

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
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> >>> I was a child in the 50s. My mother didn't wear a girdle either, being as
> >>> skinny as I am now, or even a bra most of the time; just a vest
> >> (?undershirt
> >>> to Americans) of knitted cotton or fine wool.
> >>>
> >>> Gee, I thought all women wore girdles in the 50s, maybe because even up
> >> to the
> >> mid 60s they were in style and thin girls like me wore them in high 
> school,
> >> although we didn't need to.
> >
> > Obviously, you didn't grow up in California ;)  I was never thin, but never
> > wore a girdle in all of the 50s-60s.  I had an aunt who would have made me
> > wear one if, indeed, everybody was wearing them (the maiden-aunt full of
> > child-raising advice).  But she stopped wearing them in the 50s, I think.
> >
> > Au contraire.  I lived most of my life in southern California.

San Diego, here.  And you?


Kayta

    //// \\\
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   (((  <> ))))
      )   ((((((
/----\   /---\))

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Subject: [h-cost] Fabric of Society
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>

A quick and perfunctory net search shows copies of _Fabric of Society_
currently for sale by:

John Ives, Bookseller in London
https://secure.bibliology.com/enquiry/Enquiry_Options.html?aabid=7734537

jives@btconnect.com

Pelican Bay Books in Washington state
http://www.abebooks.com/home/PELICANBAY/
pelican@anacortes.net

Basilisk Bookshop in Australia
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~basilisk/index.html
basbooks@bigpond.net.au

Tacoma Book Center in Washington state
http://www.abebooks.com/home/TACBOOKS/
tacbooks@earthlink.net

Webster's Bookstore Cafe in Pennsylvania
http://www.abebooks.com/home/ZEPPELIN/
orders@webstersbookstorecafe.com

Last Exit Books in Brooklyn, New York
http://www.abebooks.com/home/LASTEXIT/
lastexit@inch.com

Winged Monkey Books in Virginia
gppainter@yahoo.com

Tell Me a Story in Canada
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/ClientHome?clientId=263760
jbtedlie@shaw.ca

Highland Book City in California
http://www.abebooks.com/home/BOOKCITYHIGHLAND/
bookcityhighland@sbcglobal.net

City Book Service in Virginia
bookcityhighland@sbcglobal.net

Black Oak Books in California
http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLACKOAK/
blackoak@infoconex.com

Fran



> Has
> anyone ever seen a copy of Fabric of Society by Tozer
> and Levitt for sale somewhere?  As far as I can tell
> it was an exhibition book printed in 1983 and it has
> some really great photos from the costume museum at
> Bath, great for my current  museum project but,but
> ,but
> the library where I usually check it out has pulled
> their copy because it was falling apart.  They won't
> repair it because it's not a high use item and they
> won't sell me the damaged copy.  Now I have to
> interlibrary loan it from the local university.
> Extreme hassle when I just need access to one chapter.
> I understand the theft angle (husband collects rare
> books) but the difficulty in getting information
> sometimes just drives me nuts, especially when I know
> the info is out there.
>

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
From: sylvia 
To: 
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:39:20 -0600
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on 9/17/02 6:58 PM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows at kayta@frys.com wrote:

> 
>>>>> I was a child in the 50s. My mother didn't wear a girdle either, being as
>>>>> skinny as I am now, or even a bra most of the time; just a vest
>>>> (?undershirt
>>>>> to Americans) of knitted cotton or fine wool.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gee, I thought all women wore girdles in the 50s, maybe because even up
>>>> to the
>>>> mid 60s they were in style and thin girls like me wore them in high
>> school,
>>>> although we didn't need to.
>>> 
>>> Obviously, you didn't grow up in California ;)  I was never thin, but never
>>> wore a girdle in all of the 50s-60s.  I had an aunt who would have made me
>>> wear one if, indeed, everybody was wearing them (the maiden-aunt full of
>>> child-raising advice).  But she stopped wearing them in the 50s, I think.
>>> 
>>> Au contraire.  I lived most of my life in southern California.
> 
> San Diego, here.  And you?

Temple City and Arcadia in the San Gabriel Valley next to Pasadena.

Sylvia

PS>  And I'm not thin anymore but I'll never wear a girdle again! ;-)
> 
> 
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 17 23:37:40 2002
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:22:00 -0400
Status: RO

Hi. I have been to two CostumeCons on the East Coast (and honored to be a
judge at one of them), and the Historical Costume section, although small by
comparison to the Fantasy stuff, was nevertheless well represented. There were
entrants in all categories of both skill and historical period. I was quite
impressed with all of the skill and work that went into the costuming. In the
end, I wished that no one had to compete, as everyone had done such a great
job in their area. Of course, when you throw your hat into the ring, you stand
the chance of coming in second place. I hope the CC21 has as great competitors
as those I got to see.  Mike T.


>

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Tasha McGann wrote:

> book version at a reasonable price. I also gladly
> spent two hours and $70 to copy _A Pictorial History
> of Embroidery_, color plates included, because that
> $300-$400 price tag is just out of my budget range for
> such things. If the book were re-issued for $100,
> brand-new, I'd make it happen and save my copied
> version as a set of handy one-offs to show others as
> needed.

I have a photocopy of Schuette as well as the book.  I refuse to bring
the book to outdoor events -- too expensive to replace.

--Charlene

-- 
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to be serious when they laugh. -- George Bernard Shaw
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Lavolta Press wrote:

> If there many illegal copies, this has weakened the market and the
> publisher is less likely to reprint. Many people _won't_ bother
> replacing their photocopy with "the real thing."

True that many people may not replace their copies.  I, however, always
buy the book if it's available.  Once I've bought the book I toss my
copy -- with the except of the Schuette photocopy which I use when I
don't want to risk harm to the actual book.  Doesn't make it legal, but
it easies my conscience about making copies.

--Charlene

-- 
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to be serious when they laugh. -- George Bernard Shaw
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Thank you everyone for all those suggestions, web page addresses, information
and first hand experience. I have a lot to go from now, cheers! The pointed
bras look really hilarious, I think I have to get one, after all, it's
authentic (and it's funny!)
Tim also gave me a sheet with detailed information on how things were worn for
different years, and apparently the stockings are supposed to be grey
(1954-1956) and then beige (1957-1960). I think I go for the 54-56 look, I
prefer beige stockings.
Now I just have to find a source for simple, sturdy, black lace-up shoes. There
must be something here in the UK for uniform shoes or such. I'll check around.
Thank you everyone! When I have the stuff together I promise a photo of me as
Nursie. (for those in the UK, yes, I DO look like a nurse in one of the Carry
On films. hehehe)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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 --- Jean Waddie  

> Tell you what, you can owe them to me for Kirby Hall next year if I turn 

No Kirby Hall next year I'm afraid.

> up with my green dress embroidered at hem, cuffs and neck.  I have 

*grins* Sounds like a big project.

> measured the lengths, I have the cloth sitting on the table to cut the 
> strips... I HATE embroidery, and I've never yet finished anything!  This 
> is the real challenge for the winter.  How many other garments will I 
> make to avoid doing embroidery?

Hmm.. if you hate it so much, there isn't by any chance something else you
could do? I am a firm beiever in not forcing oneself into doing something one
hates. Would be such a shame. Your project though sound yummy!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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thread-index: AcJe7M+PNgPpralxRSe9WXSh9DgG+g==
Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Going to SF
From: "freyalyn" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF
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Thankyou for helping me out here (sorry it's been so long before I got
back to you, but life,you know.....)

My travels to and from SF are a bit complicated - I'm flying in on
Wednesday October 23, meeting some friends who are flying in from the
east coast (theoretically we will all end up in the same place at the
same time). We then spend two days together in Northern California and
then drive up to Lake Tahoe, where I have a week at SOAR (the Spin Off
Autumn Retreat, which is my main reason for being in the US as I won a
scholar ship for this).

The following Sunday I get myself back down the SF and am staying with
some people until the Wednesday evening when I fly back to the UK. So I
think my only time for wandering SF in detail is on the Tuesday
(November 5).

Are all these places fairly central and easy to get to, or is it pretty
complicated? And if you're free that day, I'd love to meet. But if you
can't get time off, don't worry.

Many thank for all your help.

Freyalyn the getting-rapidly-more-fatigued-in-advance-by-the-moment.....



_______________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters  .
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has the scoop on what matters most to you. 

<-----Original Message----->
> 
> From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows
> Sent: 9/13/2002 10:07:18 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF
> 
> Britex is pricey, but it's the best we have up here. General Bead is
good, 
> for beads, antique sequins, etc. The Jessica McClintock outlet has
last 
> seasons' dress appliques, usually at like 5/$1. And there are many 
> discount places. Would you like a local tour-guide (hint, hint)?
> 
> >Oh, oh, can people please let me know what's exciting in the textiley
line 
> >in San Francisco as well, as I'm going at the end of October.
> >
> >Please?
> >
> >Freyalyn
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________
> >Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
> From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
> >has the scoop on what matters most to you.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stephen Bergdahl
> > Sent: 9/12/2002 11:48:03 PM
> > To: h-costume@indra.com
> > Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA
> >
> >
> > Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some
> > recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a
pilgrimage
> > to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome.
> > --
> > Stephen Bergdahl
> > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm
> >
> > Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid
> > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html
> >
> > Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com
> > Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings
> > Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
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> Kayta
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Thankyou for helping me out here (sorry it's been so long before I got back to you, but life,you know.....)



My travels to and from SF are a bit complicated - I'm flying in on Wednesday October 23, meeting some friends who are flying in from the east coast (theoretically we will all end up in the same place at the same time).  We then spend two days together in Northern California and then drive up to Lake Tahoe, where I have a week at SOAR (the Spin Off Autumn Retreat, which is my main reason for being in the US as I won a scholar ship for this).



The following Sunday I get myself back down the SF and am staying with some people until the Wednesday evening when I fly back to the UK.  So I think my only time for wandering SF in detail is on the Tuesday (November 5).



Are all these places fairly central and easy to get to, or is it pretty complicated?  And if you're free that day, I'd love to meet.  But if you can't get time off, don't worry.



Many thank for all your help.



Freyalyn the getting-rapidly-more-fatigued-in-advance-by-the-moment.....






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<-----Original Message----->

>  

> From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows

> Sent: 9/13/2002 10:07:18 PM

> To: h-costume@indra.com

> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF

> 

> Britex is pricey, but it's the best we have up here. General Bead is good, 

> for beads, antique sequins, etc. The Jessica McClintock outlet has last 

> seasons' dress appliques, usually at like 5/$1. And there are many 

> discount places. Would you like a local tour-guide (hint, hint)?

> 

> >Oh, oh, can people please let me know what's exciting in the textiley line 

> >in San Francisco as well, as I'm going at the end of October.

> >

> >Please?

> >

> >Freyalyn

> >

> >

> >_______________________________________________________________

> >Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.

> From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage

> >has the scoop on what matters most to you.

> >

> >

> >

> > From: Stephen Bergdahl

> > Sent: 9/12/2002 11:48:03 PM

> > To: h-costume@indra.com

> > Subject: [h-cost] Going to LA

> >

> >

> > Well I am going to LA and I was wondering if anyone could make some

> > recommendations on Fabric shops to see. We will be making a pilgrimage

> > to the Garment Distract, but better info is always welcome.

> > --

> > Stephen Bergdahl

> > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm

> >

> > Co-Chair Costume-Con 24 Bid

> > www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Costume-Con24/Frames.html

> >

> > Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com

> > Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings

> > Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing

> > _______________________________________________

> > h-costume mailing list

> > h-costume@mail.indra.com

> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

> > .

> >

> 

> 

> Kayta

> 

>  //// \\\

>  ////-@@\\\

>  (((( 7 )))

>  (((  ))))

>  ) ((((((

> /----\ /---\))

> 

> _______________________________________________

> h-costume mailing list

> h-costume@mail.indra.com

> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

> .

> 


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Sylvia R wrote:
 
>Gee, I thought all women wore girdles in the 50s, maybe because even up >to the mid 60s they were in style and thin girls like me wore them in high >school, although we didn't need to.

Yes, I think I was the only girl in my class who didn't wear a girdle (they were called "roll-ons" by then). I suppose Mum and I were not very fashion-conscious. Personally, I loathed stockings and suspenders, and was really glad I only had to wear them for a few years before tights (pantyhose) came in.




Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Interested in 'Plastic Whalebone' corset boningfrom Wissner?
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 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > 

> bit. The boning i got was the narrowest they had and it is 12 m.m. wide. You

Ahhh, Bjarne, you and them might not have understood each other. I have their
catalogue and their samples (some of them) the narrowest they do is actually
3.5 mm! they also do different thicknesses. 12 mm is their WIDEST.
They do 3.5, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12 mm

I am loking forward to the boning!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Jean Waddie wrote:

>Can anyone think of a British regiment whose dress uniform reflects 
>actual day-to-day garments later than 1900?  (I'm talking Army here, RAF 
>and women don't count, and the Royal Navy has mostly updated).

I'm no uniform expert, but I guess they're all versions of styles worn in the pre-khaki era. Wasn't khaki first worn in the Boer War?

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

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>Now I just have to find a source for simple, sturdy, black lace-up shoes.
There
must be something here in the UK for uniform shoes or such

Doc Martens still do them there is a factory shop in Whetstone
Leicestershire. I have some myself lovely :)

Mel

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF
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>Are all these places fairly central and easy to get to, or is it pretty 
>complicated?

San Francisco and Lake Tahoe are on opposite sides of the state, the narrow 
way.  Driving time may be 3 hours, or 4, I'm not sure, but there's a direct 
freeway connexion between San Francisco and one end of Lake Tahoe.  Los 
Angeles is 8 hours south of San Francisco, by freeway, and Mexico another 2 
hours south of that.

>  And if you're free that day, I'd love to meet. But if you can't get time 
> off, don't worry.

I'm unemployed, and likely to stay that way, just the luck.  So this day, 
Tuesday (November 5), is fine with me.


Kayta

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Hi Kayta, can you get this off list, I can't get my stupid e-mail to
give me your individual address, it will only send to the list. I'm on
freyalyn@ivillage.com

I meant the places you originally mentioned within SF - could we visit
them all in a day?? Is there anything else you think you'd like to show
me? Let me know and we'll work out where and when to meet.

Freyalyn



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<-----Original Message----->
> 
> From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows
> Sent: 9/18/2002 10:14:41 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF
> 
> 
> >Are all these places fairly central and easy to get to, or is it
pretty 
> >complicated?
> 
> San Francisco and Lake Tahoe are on opposite sides of the state, the
narrow 
> way. Driving time may be 3 hours, or 4, I'm not sure, but there's a
direct 
> freeway connexion between San Francisco and one end of Lake Tahoe. Los
> Angeles is 8 hours south of San Francisco, by freeway, and Mexico
another 2 
> hours south of that.
> 
> And if you're free that day, I'd love to meet. But if you can't get
time 
> off, don't worry.
> 
> I'm unemployed, and likely to stay that way, just the luck. So this
day, 
> Tuesday (November 5), is fine with me.
> 
> 
> Kayta
> 
> //// \\\
> ////-@@\\\
> (((( 7 )))
> ((( ))))
> ) ((((((
> /----\ /---\))
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> .
> 


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Hi Kayta, can you get this off list, I can't get my stupid e-mail to give me your individual address, it will only send to the list.  I'm on freyalyn@ivillage.com



I meant the places you originally mentioned within SF - could we visit them all in a day??  Is there anything else you think you'd like to show me?  Let me know and we'll work out where and when to meet.



Freyalyn






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Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
has the scoop on what matters most to you.



<-----Original Message----->

>  

> From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows

> Sent: 9/18/2002 10:14:41 AM

> To: h-costume@indra.com

> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF

> 

> 

> >Are all these places fairly central and easy to get to, or is it pretty 

> >complicated?

> 

> San Francisco and Lake Tahoe are on opposite sides of the state, the narrow 

> way. Driving time may be 3 hours, or 4, I'm not sure, but there's a direct 

> freeway connexion between San Francisco and one end of Lake Tahoe. Los 

> Angeles is 8 hours south of San Francisco, by freeway, and Mexico another 2 

> hours south of that.

> 

> And if you're free that day, I'd love to meet. But if you can't get time 

> off, don't worry.

> 

> I'm unemployed, and likely to stay that way, just the luck. So this day, 

> Tuesday (November 5), is fine with me.

> 

> 

> Kayta

> 

>  //// \\\

>  ////-@@\\\

>  (((( 7 )))

>  (((  ))))

>  ) ((((((

> /----\ /---\))

> 

> _______________________________________________

> h-costume mailing list

> h-costume@mail.indra.com

> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

> .

> 


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thanks Janet for coming on-list about In Royal
Fashion.  Almost everyone I know dresses more than one
time period.
   Thanks Fran, I'll start peering at your suggested
links later today.  My computer didn't come up with
anything for Fabric of Society but it seems to really
hate book titles, no matter what they are.  Even when
I know something is out there and where a title search
won't show it.  Eventually I'll have my teen-ager
teach me how to do this right.
   Magdalena,  You sound like exactly the person I
need to get talking about drawn thread work.  I've
been peering at the Fashion in Detail and trying to
relate what I'm seeing and reading to the stitch
diagrams in a book called White Work Embroidery by
Barbara Dawson.  It's more a dictionary of types of
whitework but it does have photos of work in progress
so you can see how to make the stitches and a bit of
history of each type of whitewok.  I'm presuming that
it was fabric that was expensive so someone might
piece together lengths that weren't quite long enough
by putting in a yoke or shoulder piece and then
decorate the piece because (like a cat) I meant to do
that anyway.  I gather that fabric was not a throw
away commodity in this timeframe and getting linen
here, even now at the end of the season, is not cheap
or even possible.  I've hit the end of season sales
and am trying to strip some colors out to redye a more
period shade but I hate to order off-line fabrics
until I'm more familiar with linen and silk.  I did
find some nice white linen, reasonably fine for shifts
which is 54 inches wide but it is a border print for
skirts so the useable width is only about 44 inches
but as 2.88us @ yd I'll take it and cut off the border
print.  Scraps are a great practice area to learn what
I'm doing as to thread size and stitch patterns. 
Would they have used hem-stitching and blackwork on
the same garment?  Can I hemstitch the pieces together
and then blackwork the cuffs and collar and shoulder
piece?  What about covering the shoulder piece with
one of the blackwork filler stitches that  were
recently put up as Bronwen's Blackwork?  Thanks for
all the info everyone, I'm beginning to feel less lost
in the Elizabethan timeframe.
                        Cassandra  


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If you are using Outlook Explorer, then put your pointer over where all =
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expanded message itself.   Right click - this should bring up a menu.  =
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From: Teddy 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CostumeCon21
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> All right, now, you guys....I've never *been* to a Costume
> Con....Are they worth going to? What happens at one? Dish, please!
> --sue, who thinks it conflicts with a Kingdom (SCA) event, but
> who'd like to (maybe) come anyway, if she can afford it 

I've never been to one either, but I've helped run the English/UK 
version a couple of times.  If the US ones are in any way similar...

Main events are usually the masquerades... costume competitions 
where you get to show of your really spiffy costumes.  Not just by 
*wearing* them but by *presenting* them (Judges and audience 
can only be entertained by so many "Woman in a Frock"  entries 
where the entrant simply walks on, does a twirl and walks off.....!) 
in some way.  Over here we have 3 masquerades (Science 
fiction/fantasy, Historical and "Anything goes"... I suspect the 
"antyhing goes" category is absorbed into the "SF and Fantasy" 
category at US conventions as I don't see it listed for CC21

Plus, there are talks, workshops, panel deiscussions etc - all 
related to costumes and costuming.   Take a look at the Costume 
Con 21 webpages to see the sort of things Karen's plkanning for 
the program and the other stuff that's listed there.  Some of it's not-
confirmed yet,  but it looks like a good variety of stuff on offer..



Teddy
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> Now I just have to find a source for simple, sturdy, black lace-up shoes.

Black?  I thought nurses always wore white shoes...

Pam Dotson
Everett, WA  USA


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One of the internet fabric dealers has 16mm silk georgette at a good =
price but I don't know what the fabric will be like.  Would that be =
dress weight, blouse weight, veil weight?

Janet

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One of the internet fabric dealers has =
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Would that be dress weight, blouse weight, veil weight?


 


Janet


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 --- David  wrote: > 
> > Now I just have to find a source for simple, sturdy, black lace-up shoes.
> 
> Black?  I thought nurses always wore white shoes...

Not red cross nurses,and not in the UK and not in the 1950s, apparently. :-)
A red cross nurse is not like a nurse in a hospital either.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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>Not red cross nurses,and not in the UK and not in the 1950s, apparently.
:-)
A red cross nurse is not like a nurse in a hospital either.



More running about in fields & warzones (rueful grin)

Any luck with the Docs ?

Mel
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Hi all!

In traveling to Washington, D.C. this past July, I recalled someone's suggetion about alternatives to scissors for those of us who cannot imagine a 7 hour flight without something to do with our hands!  The dental floss case has a cutting edge which is excellent for threads.   My needles posed no problem going through (I had them in the material with some thread in it.) My scissors I did have packed in my checked luggage, but on the way back, I forgot and carried on my thread snips (like you buy at JoAnn's with the plastic casing)in my carry on luggage and it was promptly confiscated by security!!   Thank goodness I still had my dental floss in my purse!

This is just to say -- be careful when you travel at this time, but for the determined costumer -- Have needle, will travel!!

Donna (who's planning other trips in October & November!)
Fyne Hats By Felicity
Period Headgear for Past Ages
www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 18 14:32:23 2002
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That's lighweight fabric weight.  mm stands for momme.

poly chiffon is about the equivalent of 5-6 mm,
Chinese silk (the stuff cheap silk shirts are made of) is 8mm,
Cotton broadcloth is about the equivalent of 10 mm,
poly taffeta is about the equivalent of 20-25 mm (give or take the =
quality),
And Upholsety velvet is about the equivalent of 35+mm.

Hope this helps!
Brandy


  One of the internet fabric dealers has 16mm silk georgette at a good =
price but I don't know what the fabric will be like.  Would that be =
dress weight, blouse weight, veil weight?

  Janet

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That's lighweight fabric weight.  =
mm stands=20
for momme.


 


poly chiffon is about the equivalent of =
5-6=20
mm,


Chinese silk (the stuff cheap silk =
shirts are made=20
of) is 8mm,


Cotton broadcloth is about the =
equivalent of 10=20
mm,


poly taffeta is about the equivalent of =
20-25 mm=20
(give or take the quality),


And Upholsety velvet is about the =
equivalent of=20
35+mm.


 


Hope this helps!


Brandy



  


  
One of the internet fabric dealers =
has 16mm silk=20
  georgette at a good price but I don't know what the fabric will be =
like. =20
  Would that be dress weight, blouse weight, veil weight?

  
 

  
Janet


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 18 14:53:33 2002
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From: "Linda J. Thompson" 
Subject: [h-cost] question about silk
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Ok,

8mm Habotai is the weight you generally find in those painted silk scarves.

I am fairly certain that 16mm Georgette would be at least blouse weight.
-- 
Linda Thompson

Visit www.seams-to-be.com
where Attitude is Everything

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 18 15:50:17 2002
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From: Elizabeth Lear 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Need help with Country and western dress" Thanks!
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On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 10:49:34AM +0200, Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote:
> The dress I made is now on my website!
> http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/Country&Western.html

Great job!  I really like the style and details.


					...eliz
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 18 15:58:36 2002
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Georgette is a very fine, very lightweight flimsy,
floaty type of silk, which normally comes in approx
30" widths, and all sorts of colours.

Hope this helps,
Debbie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 18 18:39:34 2002
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My mother, who was of an upper-middle class upbringing that had tinges of 
"Old South" to it, graduated High School in 1957. She told me that she 
stopped wearing a girdle in the 70's.

Mary/Katerine

>Obviously, you didn't grow up in California ;)  I was never thin, but never 
>wore a girdle in all of the 50s-60s.  I had an aunt who would have made me 
>wear one if, indeed, everybody was wearing them (the maiden-aunt full of 
>child-raising advice).  But she stopped wearing them in the 50s, I think.
>
>
>Kayta
>




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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 15:40:29 -0700
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I travel for a living and always have some sort of hand work with me.  I
have the thread cutter ring and have also never been stopped with the
thread snips that look like a pen.  It is in my briefcase right along
side all my ball point pens.  I also have a pair of compression 'kid'
scissors.  They have plastic handles but metal blades incased in
plastic.  Security has looked at them, but never confiscated them.  I
can cut ribbon, and such with those.

Saragrace

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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Kevin + Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] funniest e-bay title yet
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Gods, what an AWFUL creation...  How to annoy reenactors in _every_ period
all at once, eh?  ;D

-- Mara

>Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:
>> 
>> VICTORIAN COLONIAL Costume LONG DRESS - SCA
>> Item # 714386217
>> 
>> One dress for all your costuming needs!

Kevin + Mara Riley

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in my cunning
  plan for an Elizabethian
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:30:49 -0400
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Is this Drea's style of gathered kirtle?
If so, you _might_ be able to wear it through most of your pregnancy
anyway, just by changing how tightly you lace it.

(Caveat -- I have NO experience in this myself, so...)

We had a discussion about 19th c. fashions and pregnancy on the 19thCWoman
list a week or so ago.  Some of the ladies who have worn mid-Victorian
clothes while pregnant said that the full skirts accomodated most of their
size change, until maybe the last two months of pregnancy.  I've noticed in
pictures of 18th c. pregnant women that they tend to leave their stays
loose at the bottom (you can't see the stays, but I'm guessing they just
started the lacing higher up), and to wear their petticoats and aprons
higher up as well; so they didn't need a separate set of clothing just for
being pregnant (very practical, considering how much time women spent being
pregnant...)

I suspect that Drea's kirtle pattern would work in a similar fashion  --
the skirts are very full, and the kirtle laces up in back, so it can expand
a bit.

Cheers,
Mara

At 05:01 PM 9/16/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, maybe not a flaw, but definately a complication.
>To recap, I want to make a gathered kirtle out of linen, to be worn under
a loose gown made out of wool.
>Then, last month, just as I was preparing to draft the patterns...I found
out that I am pregnant.  Now I'm quite happy about the pregnancy but it
does rather complicate matters wrt the sewing :)
>
>Since at nine weeks I'm already starting to show, I figure that I'm going
to get pretty huge, and I want this to be a outfit that I can wear for most
of my pregnancy.
>
>My plan right now is to do the following.  I will add several inches (I'm
thinking around 4) to all of the seams of the kirtle  I will then sew all
of the seams 3 times, so that as I expand the kirtle can expand with me.  I
will do the same thing to the gown.  
>However, I'm not quite sure if this will be enough room for expansion, or
for that matter if I am underestimating the ability of a kirtle and/or a
gown to expand.
>
>thanks,
>Katie

Kevin + Mara Riley

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] copies and rare books; was: International
  Copyrights
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At 11:35 AM 9/17/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>> (Fran) A lot of people
>> making their own copies does incrementally cut into
>> sales, or, if the work is
>> out of print, the value of reprinting it.
>> Fran
>
> (Tasha) Hhhhmmm. Not so sure if I agree with this when it
>comes to out-of-print books. It seems to me that an
>excess of copies being passed around is a sure sign
>that a book is woefully needed on the market. A
>re-issue would gladly be snapped up by almost all of
>the copy-havers, in addition to a nameless mass of
>folks who don't even yet have copies but will take the
>path of least resistence once they know the book is
>available again for a reasonable price.

Agreed.  I had a copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy of McClintock's book on Irish and
Highland Dress.  Unicorn Books got permission to reproduce it (in copy
form, not hardcover), and you can bet I jumped at the opportunity.  I'd
MUCH rather have a good-quality original than a fair or bad-quality copy.
If the publishers would bring several other good costume books back into
print, I'd do the same...  I've spent way too much money (need to make a
list for my insurance records, in case of fire!) on alibris and bibliofind
buying out of print books, but some of them simply can't be obtained for
love or money, regardless.  Case in point -- Montgomery's _Textiles in
America_.  I have a copy on loan from a friend, but that book desperately
needs to be reprinted; I'm not the only reenactor who wants one, and I
can't afford to pay $250+ for my own copy right now!

-- Mara
Kevin + Mara Riley

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Mara wrote:

>We had a discussion about 19th c. fashions and pregnancy on the >19thCWoman
>list a week or so ago.  Some of the ladies who have worn mid-Victorian
>clothes while pregnant said that the full skirts accomodated most of their
>size change, until maybe the last two months of pregnancy.  I've noticed in
>pictures of 18th c. pregnant women that they tend to leave their stays
>loose at the bottom (you can't see the stays, but I'm guessing they just
>started the lacing higher up), and to wear their petticoats and aprons
>higher up as well; so they didn't need a separate set of clothing just for
>being pregnant (very practical, considering how much time women spent >being pregnant...)

Yes, it used to intrigue me that none of the historical costume books mentioned maternity clothes, seeing that it was normal for women of all classes to have a baby every year (well, I did once see a Regency maternity dress.) But of course they mostly just adapted their normal clothing.




Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

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Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Going to SF
From: "freyalyn" 
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I'm not on Outlook, this is my personal address not work, and it's not
good at that sort of thing. Strips lots of extra informaton that Outlook
would let through. Drat.....



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<-----Original Message----->
> 
> From: Rowena
> Sent: 9/18/2002 4:07:38 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF
> 
> 
> If you are using Outlook Explorer, then put your pointer over where
all the headers are listed - the 
> From Subject Received list, not over the expanded message itself.
Right click - this should bring 
> up a menu. Clicking on properties should then show you what even the
hidden address is.
> 
> 
> Hi -, can you get this off list, I can't get my stupid e-mail to give
me your individual address, it 
> will only send to the list.


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I'm not on Outlook, this is my personal address not work, and it's not good at that sort of thing.  Strips lots of extra informaton that Outlook would let through.  Drat.....






_______________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters.
From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
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<-----Original Message----->

>  

> From: Rowena

> Sent: 9/18/2002 4:07:38 PM

> To: h-costume@indra.com

> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Going to SF

> 

> 

> If you are using Outlook Explorer, then put your pointer over where all the headers are listed - the 

> From Subject Received list, not over the expanded message itself.   Right click - this should bring 

> up a menu.  Clicking on properties should then show you what even the hidden address is.

>  

>  

> Hi -, can you get this off list, I can't get my stupid e-mail to give me your individual address, it 

> will only send to the list.


------=_NextPart_000_02CD_01C25F82.BFCBB1E0--

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] funniest e-bay title yet
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>Gods, what an AWFUL creation...  How to annoy reenactors in _every_ period
>all at once, eh?  ;D

OTOH, today I saw one that looked like it was going to be even funnier, 
starting out something like "Medieval SCA Victorian", but then it said 
"Hoops".  I can imagine talking one set of hoops into being several 
different periods - my only set of hoops is adjustable for a few different 
decades.


Kayta

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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:14:43 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

Hi H-Costumers!

Short note to say. "Bye,"  for a while at least. An idiot at work 
(where my e-mail is) circulated spam to the entire organisation so 
the dreaded crackdown on personal e-mails has happened.

I'm gonna have to unsub for a while to reduce the through traffic on 
my account.

I'll miss this list!



Teddy
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Oh, Teddy....Say it isn't so! It just won't be the same! *sniff* Come
back soon! *sniff*
--Sue, still sorting through stuff from the trip, and still regretting
that she didn't get a picture of you and Tom....

Teddy wrote:
> 
> Hi H-Costumers!
> 
> Short note to say. "Bye,"  for a while at least. An idiot at work
> (where my e-mail is) circulated spam to the entire organisation so
> the dreaded crackdown on personal e-mails has happened.
> 
> I'm gonna have to unsub for a while to reduce the through traffic on
> my account.
> 
> I'll miss this list!
> 
> Teddy
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:17:33 -0500
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Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!  8-(


Karen


On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:14:43 +0000 (GMT) Teddy  writes:
> Hi H-Costumers!
> 
> Short note to say. "Bye,"  for a while at least. An idiot at work 
> (where my e-mail is) circulated spam to the entire organisation so 
> the dreaded crackdown on personal e-mails has happened.
> 
> I'm gonna have to unsub for a while to reduce the through traffic on 
> 
> my account.
> 
> I'll miss this list!
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy
> _______________________________________________
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> 

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 09:49:20 2002
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From: Linda Krecker-Schkred 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in my	cunningplan for
 an Elizabethian
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At 8:58 AM +0100 9/19/02, Kate M Bunting wrote:
When I was working at U of A in Tucson's Theatre department i came 
across a Victorian maternity dress. It was of black silk taffeta, a 
one piece with a good number of seams and pattern pieces. I can't 
remember much about it except to say it was rather wide in the middle 
so must have been for the last few months of pregnancy. Whether 
something like it would be in any history books or even a magazine, I 
don't know. It certainly is worthy of some more study.
Rhianwen


>Mara wrote:
>
>>We had a discussion about 19th c. fashions and pregnancy on the >19thCWoman
>>list a week or so ago.  Some of the ladies who have worn mid-Victorian
>>clothes while pregnant said that the full skirts accomodated most of their
>>size change, until maybe the last two months of pregnancy.  I've noticed in
>>pictures of 18th c. pregnant women that they tend to leave their stays
>>loose at the bottom (you can't see the stays, but I'm guessing they just
>>started the lacing higher up), and to wear their petticoats and aprons
>>higher up as well; so they didn't need a separate set of clothing just for
>>being pregnant (very practical, considering how much time women 
>>spent >being pregnant...)
>
>Yes, it used to intrigue me that none of the historical costume 
>books mentioned maternity clothes, seeing that it was normal for 
>women of all classes to have a baby every year (well, I did once see 
>a Regency maternity dress.) But of course they mostly just adapted 
>their normal clothing.
>
>
>
>
>Kate Bunting
>Library, University of Derby
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 10:17:49 2002
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Sue Clemenger  wrote :

> Oh, Teddy....Say it isn't so! It just won't be the same! *sniff* Come
> back soon! *sniff*
> --Sue, still sorting through stuff from the trip, and still regretting
> that she didn't get a picture of you and Tom....


Lots of pictures of Teddy, and Tom, and assorted mad friends, can be found here:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/farisles/lst?&.dir=/&.src=gr&.view=l&.begin=1




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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 10:24:31 2002
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I just want to correct a misconception here. While big families were common
in the past, even the recent past, it's going too far to say that "a baby a
year" was common for people of all classes at every time in the past,
implying that "common" means "universal." Relatively small families of six
or so have always been common, and even accounting for higher infant
mortality people often spaced them out. Breastfeeding has a natural
contraceptive affect that doesn't work for every woman, but that generally
spaces children two years apart. Of course, breastfeeding isn't as universal
as many people suppose -- the use of wet nurses by anyone who could afford
them was very popular at various times throughout Europe. And of course in
ancient Rome they practically had to bribe rich families to have children at
all. (Of course that, too, is a simplification.)

My point is that we should not assume that the lack of modern birth control
methods meant that every woman had a baby every year. Your average woman had
more pregnancies that today's average woman in the West, that's all. But
also, at most times in the past there were a lot more women who never
married at all, and never had children at all. Today's assumption that most
people will marry and perhaps even reproduce without marrying is very
unsual. So plenty of women never adjusted their clothes for pregnancy.

Gail Finke




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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 12:05:01 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:52:44 -0500
Status: RO

I am needing to do some sort of costume for occasional wear when I may
be hanging out with the local lace guild when they are doing demos. 
These tend to be at local historical sites which means American midwest,
mid to late 19th century.  Authenticity standards are not strict but I'm
to much into it personally to just throw together a skirt and blouse as
has been recommended :).  This is way out of my period so can someone
recommend a good site or references I can use for research?  

Thanks,
Catherine
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        In case you aren't off yet.  We will miss you more!

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:17:17 -0500
Status: RO


On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:12:24 BST  writes:
 
And the fact that at least a couple of other h-costumers can also be seen
should in no way influence anyone to go and look at
them.........


Karen 



> Lots of pictures of Teddy, and Tom, and assorted mad friends, can be 
> found here:
> 
>
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/farisles/lst?&.dir=/&.src=gr&.view=l
&.begin=1
> 

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From: "Saragrace knauf" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Soliciting interest in providing costumes for a US Art Museum?
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:12:08 -0700
Status: RO

I am a member of our local art museum (Phoenix, AZ) and the Arizona
Costume Institute.  I spoke last evening to the curator of the Fashion
Design section of the museum and the director of the ACI.  They were
unaware of the incredible costuming that is done in the various
re-enactment groups.  I showed them some pictures of some local
costumer's work and also informed them that there were folks world wide
which did a lot of this amazing stuff.  They seemed very interested and
I told them that I would see if any of you state side outside of AZ and
across the pond(s) might be interested in having your work displayed
should they decide to pursue it.

So, my question is: Would you consider parting with your best articles
to have them displayed at the museum?

This is not a rinky dink outfit, they have one of the best fashion
collections in North America. http://www.phxart.org/

So, anyway let me know what you think about the whole idea and contact
me offline if you are interested in participating.
Obviously this idea is just in its  conceptual stage, but I'd like to
have a few names to hand them if they decide to do it.

Saragrace

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 12:55:55 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Soliciting interest in providing costumes for a US Art Museum?
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:47:06 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

 --- Saragrace knauf  wrote: > 

> So, my question is: Would you consider parting with your best articles
> to have them displayed at the museum?

The big question is HOW do they treat them? My mantua, for example, has
irreplacable 19th c. handmade laces, the fabrics are all silks and metals. It
cost memore than I can pay off ina year.
My blue dress is entirely decorate with Bjarne handmade silver lace,
irreplacable as well.
Do they treat the items like museum pieces, with the utmost care, and do they
pay for the very expensive proper shipping in proper cases etc.? Will they
treat those pieces of costume clothing like the ART they are, or just like
'costumes'?
Do they treat them like the best one off creation by a dead designer like
Versace, or do theytreat them with any less reverence.

Sorry for these questions, but I think they are important.
In essence, the idea is great, and should be done here in the UK too I think,
though I fear England would treat them far too much like 'fancy dress'
costumes. *snorts* I only say 'oh can we put fake blood onto your dress' by a
filming crew for the BBC and the shrill screamed horrified NO BLOOMING WAY YOU
SODS!!!
:-)))))

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 14:12:29 2002
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From: "Saragrace knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Soliciting interest in providing costumes for a US Art Museum?
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:50:25 -0700
Status: RO

This is a very legitimate concern.  As I said this is not a rinky-dink
outfit, and they constantly solicit artwork loans and provide them from
their own collection.  I am sure insurance would be provided, though
like many works of art they deal with, they are really irreplaceable.
They have a few late 17th century items in their collection and appear
to have the proper attitude towards them.  If it comes to fruition and
they choose to include me in trying to arrange it, all those questions
would be asked.  They, on the other hand, may just take the idea and run
with it themselves.  Then it would be up to the people solicited to
ensure they ask those questions.

I'll let everyone know what they say.  I specifically mentioned Bjarne's
work and they were amazed that anyone would make hand made lace and put
it on a historically correct garment.  But these folks are kinda' hoity
toity and I am sure that they don't often mix with 'folks like us'-so it
doesn't really surprise me.   But I try not to let that put me off,
because to me what is important is that the museum attempt to reach the
public to make them aware of art and that 'even they (the masses)' have
the capacity produce it.


Saragrace




**-----Original Message-----
**From: h-costume-admin@indra.com 
**[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of N Kipar
**Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:47 AM
**To: h-costume@indra.com
**Subject: Re: [h-cost] Soliciting interest in providing 
**costumes for a US Art Museum?
**
**
** --- Saragrace knauf  wrote: > 
**
**> So, my question is: Would you consider parting with your 
**best articles 
**> to have them displayed at the museum?
**
**The big question is HOW do they treat them? My mantua, for 
**example, has irreplacable 19th c. handmade laces, the fabrics 
**are all silks and metals. It cost memore than I can pay off 
**ina year. My blue dress is entirely decorate with Bjarne 
**handmade silver lace, irreplacable as well. Do they treat the 
**items like museum pieces, with the utmost care, and do they 
**pay for the very expensive proper shipping in proper cases 
**etc.? Will they treat those pieces of costume clothing like 
**the ART they are, or just like 'costumes'? Do they treat them 
**like the best one off creation by a dead designer like 
**Versace, or do theytreat them with any less reverence.
**
**Sorry for these questions, but I think they are important.
**In essence, the idea is great, and should be done here in the 
**UK too I think, though I fear England would treat them far 
**too much like 'fancy dress' costumes. *snorts* I only say 'oh 
**can we put fake blood onto your dress' by a filming crew for 
**the BBC and the shrill screamed horrified NO BLOOMING WAY YOU SODS!!!
**:-)))))
**
**Nicole
**
**=====
**Nicole Kipar M.A.
**Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
**Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
**URL: http://www.kipar.org/
**Email: marquis@kipar.org
**
**__________________________________________________
**Do You Yahoo!?
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**http://uk.my.yahoo.com
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**

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From: "Jane Williams" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th Century help
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:25:50 +0100
Status: RO

On 19 Sep 2002 at 10:52, Catherine Kinsey wrote:

>  American
> midwest, mid to late 19th century.  Authenticity standards are not
> strict but I'm to much into it personally to just throw together a
> skirt and blouse as has been recommended :).  This is way out of my
> period so can someone recommend a good site or references I can use
> for research?  

I'm just starting to look into ACW stuff myself, 
having previously thought of Tudor as "modern". I 
think that covers "mid to late 19th century", close 
enough?

(And I got told to go for a blouse and skirt, too! No 
way!)

Others on this list have been very, very helpful, but 
here's some sites I've found useful, as a beginner:

http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com/
especially the Academy
http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com/THE_MARKET
PLACE/FABRIC_STORE/Academy/Academy.htm

Includes patterns: so don't buy too many when you 
can get them free!

www.pastpatterns.com sells patterns (surprise!) but 
their web site seems to be down at present :(

The Curiosity Shop
http://home.earthlink.net/~gchristen/
has lots of interesting information

There's a book called "What they Wore" by Juanita 
Leisch. Available from Amazon, and excellent.





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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 14:53:42 2002
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s underwear?
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:47:50 +0100
Status: RO

Nicole,

There's (or there used to be) a company called Alexandra, who do uniform 
wear for nurses and caterers and similar stuff.  You may be able to find 
a branch in a large town - there was one in Edinburgh, but I think it 
moved to out-of-town.

Jean


N Kipar  wrote
>Thank you everyone for all those suggestions, web page addresses, information
>and first hand experience. I have a lot to go from now, cheers! The pointed
>bras look really hilarious, I think I have to get one, after all, it's
>authentic (and it's funny!)
>Tim also gave me a sheet with detailed information on how things were worn for
>different years, and apparently the stockings are supposed to be grey
>(1954-1956) and then beige (1957-1960). I think I go for the 54-56 look, I
>prefer beige stockings.
>Now I just have to find a source for simple, sturdy, black lace-up shoes. There
>must be something here in the UK for uniform shoes or such. I'll check around.
>Thank you everyone! When I have the stuff together I promise a photo of me as
>Nursie. (for those in the UK, yes, I DO look like a nurse in one of the Carry
>On films. hehehe)
>
>Nicole
>
>=====
>Nicole Kipar M.A.
>Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
>Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/
>Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Everything you'll ever need on one web page
>from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
>http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
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>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:07:48 -0400
Status: RO

Oh no!

Teddy, we'll miss you!

Dianne
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Teddy" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:14 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Gonna have to unsubscribe....


> Hi H-Costumers!
> 
> Short note to say. "Bye,"  for a while at least. An idiot at work 
> (where my e-mail is) circulated spam to the entire organisation so 
> the dreaded crackdown on personal e-mails has happened.
> 
> I'm gonna have to unsub for a while to reduce the through traffic on 
> my account.
> 
> I'll miss this list!
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy
> _______________________________________________
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:21:43 +0200
Status: RO

Hi.
I told you that i had given up making costumes, a long time ago.
But i must admit that i am back in buisiness after all. Cant live without
it!!! :-)
I really have missed the thrill .............
A lady in Denver, USA has purchased me to make her an embroidered 18th.
century robe a la francaise.
It is partly inspired from the pink dress with the handpainted white panels
in Revolution in fashion.
I promise to send photos to my site soon. Just had a new computer and i
really have to figure how i use the new program "Frontpage Express" to send
new pages to the URL.
The dress is made in sky blue "Royal Silk Taffeta" from James Hare in
London. I am going to embroider the panels on ivory taffeta, using Eterna
Stranded silk and Silk Chenille. I have just finished the design for the
embroidery and made a watercolour of the dress to be.

Bjarne


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 15:27:38 2002
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hems (and pleats)
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:52:11 +0100
Status: RO

N Kipar  wrote
> --- Jean Waddie 
>
>> Tell you what, you can owe them to me for Kirby Hall next year if I turn
>
>No Kirby Hall next year I'm afraid.
>
>> up with my green dress embroidered at hem, cuffs and neck.  I have
>
>*grins* Sounds like a big project.
>
>> measured the lengths, I have the cloth sitting on the table to cut the
>> strips... I HATE embroidery, and I've never yet finished anything!  This
>> is the real challenge for the winter.  How many other garments will I
>> make to avoid doing embroidery?
>
>Hmm.. if you hate it so much, there isn't by any chance something else you
>could do? I am a firm beiever in not forcing oneself into doing something one
>hates. Would be such a shame. Your project though sound yummy!
>
>Nicole
>
I did consider doing it in braid, but for the quality it needs I would 
have to do it in embroidery silk, and about 50 cards.  Even though I 
enjoy doing braid, that's too much, and too likely to turn into a nasty 
tangled thing half-way through.  I wove 5m for my posh girdle last 
winter, time for a change!

Jean
-- 
Jean Waddie
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 18:31:36 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] historic maternity/ bad portrait of Elizabeth I
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:31:03 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Hi again,
   I think I was the one who commented about a baby a
year.  I realize that not everyone had a baby a year,
I was merely  refering to my own genealogy, most of my
ancestors had 17-21 children through the course of
their reproductive lifetimes and the known rate of
miscarriages of the ones that didn't suggests Rh
incompatibility.  As it is I have lots of relatives ;)
and alot of them are into American Civil War
re-enacting so that is really my period.  Although the
Elizabethan is starting to grow on me as I work on my
current project.
     I recently saw a very bad book on lingerie (the
fashion plate captions were way way off) that
reproduced a portrait of Elizabeth I in which she is
wearing a grey gown with gold ornaments that look to
be set on top ofribbon rosettes.  There is no citation
for the portrait but it looks like Elizabeth I.  Does
anyone know this one?  I don't remember seeing much
grey in clothing of that era before and the jewelry
looks almost reproducible given enough ribbon and some
costume jewelry I recently saw.
                           Cassandra

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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:43:25 -0500
Status: RO


>Cassandra (who is
>beginning to really miss those pre-computer days when
>researchers got kicked out of the library at midnight
>so they could go home and sew)

Now we have to kick them off the internet computers
and THEN out of the library!

Sheryl Nance-Durst
Librarian & proud of it!

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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 20:45:15 -0600
Status: RO

Oh, thanks Jane, but, see....*sniff*....my friend Jane and I had dinner
with them, and Teddy was wearing this cat-print waistcoat,
and.....*sniff*
--sue (*sniff*, checking out the pretty pictures....;-)

jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Sue Clemenger  wrote :
> 
> > Oh, Teddy....Say it isn't so! It just won't be the same! *sniff* Come
> > back soon! *sniff*
> > --Sue, still sorting through stuff from the trip, and still regretting
> > that she didn't get a picture of you and Tom....
> 
> Lots of pictures of Teddy, and Tom, and assorted mad friends, can be found here:
> 
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/farisles/lst?&.dir=/&.src=gr&.view=l&.begin=1
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Subject: [h-cost] 1875 evening gown
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:00:35 -0400
Status: RO


Hello-

I'm in the beginning stages of planning an 1873-5 (ish) evening gown.  I've
looked at several sources & checked all the books I have but haven't been
able to make up my mind whether the gowns were several separate pieces or
not, it seems obvious in daywear but not so with the evening styles.  I know
that they are made up of a bodice/underskirt/overskirt but are they all
attached to each other?

How is the bodice closed, I'm assuming it is laced up the back.  I've only
been able to find pictures from the side & front, those that I have from the
back aren't detailed enough to be able to tell.

I've also been researching the underclothes & have found a list which
includes chemise, camisole & vest.  Aren't these 3 things roughly the same
at this point?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.  I've rented Age of Innocence to
watch for ideas on colour, styling etc.  What other movies cover this time
period?


Thanks

Elizabeth

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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 20:27:01 -0700
Status: RO

To Elizabeth-

I have a bustle-era ball gown made by a Victorian-specialist seamstress
and she made the bodice so it closes by hooks and holes up the back. No
gaping or slipping there!!! The underskirt slips on and buttons, the
back overskirt hooks onto the underskirt's waistband and the front
overskirt buttons on to the waistband.  All are separate items, great
for disassembling and recombining into various day looks.

My undergarment is a set of combinations, which is really rather later
than 1870's but it cuts down on the amount of bulk at the waist, which
can really start to add up!!

This outfit was created this way after discussions between me and the
seamstress to achieve ease of wearing and versatility of pieces and may
not reflect what the ladies actually did in the Victorian Era!!!

Hope this helps, 

Theresa Eacker

Alabaster wrote: (Snipping)
> 
> I'm in the beginning stages of planning an 1873-5 (ish) evening gown...I have but haven't been
> able to make up my mind whether the gowns were several separate pieces or
> not,   I know
> that they are made up of a bodice/underskirt/overskirt but are they all
> attached to each other?
> 
> How is the bodice closed, I'm assuming it is laced up the back. 
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 19 23:37:43 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1875 evening gown
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:32:25 -0500
Status: RO

My best recommendation is to check out the website of 'Truly Victorian'
patterns. 

http://trulyvictorian.netfirms.com/


They have an extensive collection of early bustle clothing patterns which
will save you the trouble of reinventing the wheel. If you want high end
fashion, there are several Dover books that have reprints of period
fashion plates and catalogs: 

Victorian Fashions & Costumes from Harper's Bazar-1867-1898
Edited by Stella Blum

Victorian and Edwardian Fashions from "La Mode Illustree" 1860-1914
Edited by JoAnne Olian

American Dress Pattern Catalogs 1873-1909
Edited by Nancy Villa Bryk


are close at hand. On the other hand, if you want to know what women were
actually wearing, there are books of period photos which can help:

Victorian Costume for Ladies 1860-1900
Linda Setnik  Schiffer Books

Victorian and Edwardian Fashion- A Photographic Survey
Alison Gernsheim Dover Books

Just a few recommendations of sources I have found to be helpful.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:26:03 +1200
Status: RO

> I'm in the beginning stages of planning an 1873-5 (ish) evening gown.
I've
> looked at several sources & checked all the books I have but haven't been
> able to make up my mind whether the gowns were several separate pieces or
> not, it seems obvious in daywear but not so with the evening styles.  I
know
> that they are made up of a bodice/underskirt/overskirt but are they all
> attached to each other?

It really depends on the dress. I've seen a dress that was clearly one piece
(or at least one outer piece with petticoat etc underneath it's Alison
Gernsheims book reprinted by Dover as Victorian and Edwardian Fashion, A
Photographic Survey) and I've seen one which really is a seperate (the pink
rose gown at V&A.. what a stunner in person. Sadly my photo of it turned out
blurred, but what was facinating was the double row of piping. I'd thought
it was just a single row from photos.

Another Dover reprint (how do I love the company for all it's costume book
reprints!) is the Harpers Bazar book which covers fromthe 1860s to 1890s and
has so many fashion plate illustrations you're sure to find something that
supports both single out piece and 2 or more pieces (maybe a seperate trian
for example as well as bodice and skirt).

> How is the bodice closed, I'm assuming it is laced up the back.  I've only
> been able to find pictures from the side & front, those that I have from
the
> back aren't detailed enough to be able to tell.

That rose gown definately laces up the back. So there is that as an option,
but I'm pretty sure I've seen hooks and eyes or buttons down the front on
some. It really is not a case of one way for every gown:) Of course I am
talking a few years either side of the date you gave:)

> I've also been researching the underclothes & have found a list which
> includes chemise, camisole & vest.  Aren't these 3 things roughly the same
> at this point?

Sort of...  By the late 1870s there were combinations, but petticoats were
still worn (and some corsets have buttons on them to hold the petticoat up,
supposedly to reduce bulk) And I think there were corset covers still
around.

1875 is still pretty full in terms of the bustle so underwear hadn't been
streamlined quite yet.

> Any insight would be greatly appreciated.  I've rented Age of Innocence to
> watch for ideas on colour, styling etc.  What other movies cover this time
> period?

Portrait of a lady does, though the style really reflects the latter end of
the decade even though it covers several years. The aunt played by... Shelly
long is it? has fashions that are more towards the middle part of the
decade.

Also Anna Karenina with Sophie Marceau in the title role is an movie for
this era:) Again slightly later, more streamlined.

1870s to 1880s is my all time favourite fashion era. Such a range from
incredibly hideous over the top monstrosities to absolutely divine elegance.
Pingat and Worth beign my two favourite designers for this era. I might be
able to find a link to some stunning extant gowns on the net if you would
like to see them? I saved the images, but hopefully I did also save links;)

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume


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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:23:57 +0100
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>I'm in the beginning stages of planning an 1873-5 (ish) evening gown.

There is a reasonable change over that time, I only really do England so I'm
not sure it applies to the US too, but for what it is worth...

1873 are fuller in the front with apron style fronts and lots of puffs
towards the back, they are generally more merrange like, as you progress
through those years the front has less emphasis and you more from being
towards the centre of a circle to the front of an elipse. The decoration
move towards the back, hips start of be more defined, bodices start to get
longer & you get more princess line gowns. But it is fairly gradual

 >whether the gowns were several separate pieces or
not, it seems obvious in daywear but not so with the evening styles.  I know
that they are made up of a bodice/underskirt/overskirt but are they all
attached to each other?

Earlier ones are more inclined to be seperate

>How is the bodice closed, I'm assuming it is laced up the back.

Various ways & generally very complex ones at that. On a practical level you
might not want to go as complicated as the real thing if you ever anticipate
have to get out of it alone !

I have evening wear that is front opening, back buttons, back clips and side
opening. By evening gown do you mean dinner wear, opera wear, ball gown as
the style would differ somewhat.

>I've also been researching the underclothes & have found a list which
includes chemise, camisole & vest.  Aren't these 3 things roughly the same
at this point?

Most vests I have are knitted warm things I'd not wear in the evening :)

Underwear definatly go for the genuine split drawers !

I like combinations but I don't have any problem with excess bulk from
seperates, but then I'm bulky all round ;)

Don't start making your gown until you have you foundation sorted , ie
bustle & corset as it alters you body shape loads !

Hope this helps

Oh there are some pics of our recreations on www.castlefalkenstein.co.uk

Mel


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 04:14:38 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:13:30 +0100 (BST)
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Hi All,

May I pick your brains again? I remember that once upon a time I found two
drawings, one of a male and one of a female figure on the net, that were
printable to be used for drawing one's own costume designs. Now, I'm not bad at
drawing but I am awful at trying to make a human figure blank (been there, done
that, turned out very painful :-)
Does anyone know of such a drawing or has one perhaps at home and could send it
to me so that I can draw up my 'Evil Queen' costume? *grins*
Thanks ever so much

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Sue Clemenger  wrote :

> Oh, thanks Jane, but, see....*sniff*....my friend Jane and I had dinner
> with them, and Teddy was wearing this cat-print waistcoat,
> and.....*sniff*
> --sue (*sniff*, checking out the pretty pictures....;-)

Nope, sorry. This is all Far Isles stuff. No cat-print waistcoats.




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Subject: [h-cost] maternity and fertility
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Morning all

There's some interesting stuff in the following, regarding fertility and =
lactation

Dorothy McLaren "Marital Fertlity and Lactation - 1570 - 1720" in "Women =
in English Society 1500 - 1800"

Also, for spacing etc, there's the Council For British Archaeology =
Series, Special Reports etc on The Spitalfields Project.  This stuff =
deals with C18th and the Huguenot populations in London.  I haven't got =
the link at the mo' but will post later.

As for images of women, then have a look at an article in the Costume =
Society Journal "Costume" Number 34 , 2000...."A Fatal Fertility? =
Elizabethan and Jacobean Pregnancy Portraits", by Karen Hearn.

There's also some maternity stuff in Karen Baclawski's "Dictionary of =
Historic Costume"

HTH

Regards

Helen

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Morning =
all


 


There's some interesting =
stuff in the=20
following, regarding fertility and lactation


 


Dorothy McLaren "Marital =
Fertlity and=20
Lactation - 1570 - 1720" in "Women in English Society 1500 -=20
1800"


 


Also, for spacing etc, =
there's the=20
Council For British Archaeology Series, Special Reports etc on The =
Spitalfields=20
Project.  This stuff deals with C18th and the Huguenot populations =
in=20
London.  I haven't got the link at the mo' but will post=20
later.


 


As for images of women, =
then have a=20
look at an article in the Costume Society Journal "Costume" Number 34 ,=20
2000...."A Fatal Fertility? Elizabethan and Jacobean Pregnancy =
Portraits", by=20
Karen Hearn.


 


There's also some =
maternity stuff in=20
Karen Baclawski's "Dictionary of Historic Costume"


 


HTH


 


Regards


 


Helen


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Cassandra wrote:

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> rosenau5@yahoo.com 09/19/02 11:31pm >>>
Hi again,
   I think I was the one who commented about a baby a
year.  I realize that not everyone had a baby a year,

No, it was me. I said it was "normal", by which I meant that having a very large family was for centuries socially acceptable and not seen as a sign of irresponsibility, in the way that  in more recent times educated people tended to look down upon "the feckless poor". Of course I know not every couple had a huge number of children.


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Bjarne,
Congrats!  I, for one, am *very* glad to see you decided 
to go back to your wonderful, glorious, drool-worthy, 
scrumptious costumes.

I can hardly wait to see what you do now!

Giacinta
costume junkie 
> Hi.
> I told you that i had given up making costumes, a long time ago.
> But i must admit that i am back in buisiness after all. Cant live without
> it!!! :-)
> I really have missed the thrill .............
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th Century help
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>I am needing to do some sort of costume for occasional wear when I may
>be hanging out with the local lace guild when they are doing demos.
>These tend to be at local historical sites which means American midwest,
>mid to late 19th century.  Authenticity standards are not strict but I'm
>to much into it personally to just throw together a skirt and blouse as
>has been recommended :).  This is way out of my period so can someone
>recommend a good site or references I can use for research?

It's quicker to just buy a pattern than to start from scratch.  For your 
purposes, any of the commercial historical patterns, of the sort sold to 
re-enactors, should be fine.  Past Patterns is the name that comes to mind, 
tho I have never used their patterns and there are many others as 
well.  You're lucky in that you get to pick the period.

Kayta

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1875 evening gown
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>I'm in the beginning stages of planning an 1873-5 (ish) evening gown.  I've
>looked at several sources & checked all the books I have but haven't been
>able to make up my mind whether the gowns were several separate pieces or
>not, it seems obvious in daywear but not so with the evening styles.  I know
>that they are made up of a bodice/underskirt/overskirt but are they all
>attached to each other?

Separate pieces, sometimes attached but usually not.

>How is the bodice closed, I'm assuming it is laced up the back.

or hooks.

>I've also been researching the underclothes & have found a list which
>includes chemise, camisole & vest.  Aren't these 3 things roughly the same
>at this point?

Sometimes chemise or shift is the name for the underneath one.  Sometimes 
chemise or camisole or vest is the name for the outer one.  Names???  One 
garment goes under the corset, and one garment goes over the corset.


Kayta

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online picture of 'blank' human figure drawing?
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>I remember that once upon a time I found two
>drawings, one of a male and one of a female figure on the net, that were
>printable to be used for drawing one's own costume designs. Now, I'm not 
>bad at
>drawing but I am awful at trying to make a human figure blank (been there, 
>done
>that, turned out very painful :-)
>Does anyone know of such a drawing or has one perhaps at home and could 
>send it
>to me so that I can draw up my 'Evil Queen' costume? *grins*
>Thanks ever so much

Somewhere on http://www.alleycatscratch.com are several of these; men, 
women, and children.


Kayta

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http://www.alleycatscratch.com/ffashion/Figures.htm

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*blink, blink*
Evil Queen costume??? Care to share details?  Pleeeeez?
--sue, going through her new book stash, and jonesing to do some
costuming....but *always* willing to be distracted by someone else's
great ideas!

N Kipar wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> May I pick your brains again? I remember that once upon a time I found two
> drawings, one of a male and one of a female figure on the net, that were
> printable to be used for drawing one's own costume designs. Now, I'm not bad at
> drawing but I am awful at trying to make a human figure blank (been there, done
> that, turned out very painful :-)
> Does anyone know of such a drawing or has one perhaps at home and could send it
> to me so that I can draw up my 'Evil Queen' costume? *grins*
> Thanks ever so much
> 
> Nicole
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:40:19 -0400
Status: RO

Hi, All. Please let us know the conditions under which garments would be
loaned. A written agreement might be in order. Does the Museum have a
standard one? I am the Chairman of a Curatorial Committee for a small
(possibly rinky-dink ;) ) museum, and we have artifacts loaned or given
under a variety of conditions. Some museums will not accept any items
unless they are loaned by their own specific conditions. This is to protect
both the Museum and the loaner, but it sometimes puts off potential
donors.  Mike T.



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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online picture of 'blank' human figure drawing?
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 --- Sue Clemenger  wrote: > *blink, blink*

*grins*

> Evil Queen costume??? Care to share details?  Pleeeeez?

Well.. *buffs nails*
Have been discussing this with Teddy at length. Okay,let's start at the
beginning.
I made an Evil Queen costume a few years back when I was much thinner, I think
I have a piccie somewhere online... the point is, I was skinny, and  could get
away with the flimsy bits I am wearing (and thigh length black high heeled
patent leather boots *LOL*)

okay, one is here:
http://www.cheesegame.com/vaux/queenkhay_s.jpg

and one here:
http://www.cheesegame.com/vaux/thoraqueen2.jpg

I really really have been wanting another costume, and I mean COSTUME and not
authentic correct period clothing for a long while now. I have been starting to
lose any fun making costumes and sewing, because the work for Ben's uniforms
was just too much and I couldn't bear it anymore (that kind of reminds me a
little bit of the burn-out that Bjarne had). Anyway, so I was starting to dream
of this costume and what I would like it to be like. See, I have Margo's
patterns, and am geting the excess boning that Bjarne still had. Also, I'm
going to visit teddyand Tom in a couple of weeks (one day sorting Teddy's
fabric stash, the next he's helping with Margo's corset fist and other fitting
bits.) Sooo. I am going to make Margo's underpinnings all in black linen,
completely black, black, black. *L* then I have this vision of a dress in black
silk (dupion!!! NO way I go mad and pay loads of money for taffeta) and then I
want moonstones on it, but no trims, and perhaps grey pearls, and a headdress,
and huge supportasse and standing collar, and hanging sleeves over tight ones,
and a choke colarnecklace with chains and moonstones that go all the wav
spiderwebbing over the cleavage (I still have that white skin) and hooking onto
the dress. A long train and an even longer cape falling from the shoulders,
lined in silver (the hanging sleeves are lined in silver too) and so on... For
next year's UK Masquerade.

Imagine a totally still night out of civilisation. A cold black-blue skiy and
the only lights the immeasurable stars. You feel so alone and silent and cold,
that you start to get frightened.. THAT is what my dress' insipration is. :-)

> --sue, going through her new book stash, and jonesing to do some
> costuming....but *always* willing to be distracted by someone else's
> great ideas!

Oh I know dear!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online picture of 'blank' human figure drawing?
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Status: RO

 --- Melanie Wilson  wrote: >
http://www.alleycatscratch.com/ffashion/Figures.htm

Thank you so much, that's great! Oh and my last mail was a big one describing
the Evil queen costume and not one about figures. sheesh, forgot to change the
subject.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Great costume !

Did you get the shoe url ? any good ?

Mel

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 09:54:46 2002
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Mauve: The Colour That Changed the World
(Robyn Williams' radio transcript from ABC, Australia, 5/01/2002)

Summary:
When William Perkin, a young English chemist discovered the colour Mauve, 
little did he realise the profound effect the colour would have on the 
world, and not just the world of fashion. His discovery was to have a huge 
effect on the development of explosives, perfume, photography, food and 
most importantly, modern medicine where it was used to lay the foundation 
for chemotherapy.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ss/stories/s444855.htm

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Hi.
This sounds fabulous Nicole! 
Especially the underpinnings in black linen WhouW
Dont forget to post pictures!

Bjarne


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 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Hi.
> This sounds fabulous Nicole! 

Thank you! It is great to hear this from such a master as you.

> Especially the underpinnings in black linen WhouW

I hope it'll be good, I'll get the linen from Whaleys, and.... I MACHINE sew as
much as I can, no weeks on end of authentic hand sticthing. Bwuaaahaaaa.

> Dont forget to post pictures!

I was thinking to perhaps even manage an online dress diary, because my parents
have now handed the digicam that's my Christmas prezzie-to-be (and that my dad
already bought *G*) to my sis who lives in Liverpool, so that she can post it
from there to home here, because I go onto a study day at the V&A in October.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 10:36:05 2002
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From: "Saragrace knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Soliciting interest in providing costumes for a US Art  Museum?
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:24:25 -0700
Status: RO

This is a good point.  I provided the curator and the AZ Costume
Institute (AZI) director the idea, they took the information I had
collected (a bunch of pictures down loaded off the internet) and said
they would consider it.  They may or may not include me in the
development of the idea (though they didn't seem to have any idea of how
to get in touch with folks who do this sort of thing-but it doesn't take
a rocket scientist).  IF they include me I will be sure to ask these
questions, but ultimately it is up to the individual who provides a
piece of work to get assurance that it will be insured, handled properly
etc.  

Here is are two of the current exhibits:
http://www.phxart.org/index_fortuny.html  (Mariano Fortuny)
And a celebration of "garden fashion"  "The Garden of Eden"
http://www.phxart.org/index_garden_of_eden.html

I think these links both give an idea of the broad range of textiles
(period, design) they are handling (these are all from their own
collection).  But still Mike's point is well taken-if I were so lucky to
have my work displayed I would want to know the same.

Sg

**-----Original Message-----
**From: h-costume-admin@indra.com 
**[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of leigh tartaglio
**Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 5:40 AM
**To: h-costume@indra.com
**Subject: Re: [h-cost] Soliciting interest in providing 
**costumes for a US Art Museum?
**
**
**Hi, All. Please let us know the conditions under which 
**garments would be loaned. A written agreement might be in 
**order. Does the Museum have a standard one? I am the Chairman 
**of a Curatorial Committee for a small (possibly rinky-dink ;) 
**) museum, and we have artifacts loaned or given under a 
**variety of conditions. Some museums will not accept any items 
**unless they are loaned by their own specific conditions. This 
**is to protect both the Museum and the loaner, but it 
**sometimes puts off potential donors.  Mike T.
**
**
**
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 10:39:56 2002
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From: "Saragrace knauf" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Croquis-Was Online picture of 'blank' human figure drawing?
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:28:11 -0700
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If the links already provided don't suit you try searching under
'croquis' and add the word 'fashion'.  Croquis is what they are called
over here in the fashion design world.

Sg

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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1875 evening gown
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:43:58 -0700
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To follow up on some of the other responses:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alabaster" 
Subject: [h-cost] 1875 evening gown


> How is the bodice closed, I'm assuming it is laced up the back.  I've only
> been able to find pictures from the side & front, those that I have from
the
> back aren't detailed enough to be able to tell.

I think the general rule is front closing for day and dinner dresses, back
closing for evening -- but other posters are correct, that's only a general
rule and there are many variations.

> Any insight would be greatly appreciated.  I've rented Age of Innocence to
> watch for ideas on colour, styling etc.  What other movies cover this time
> period?

Check out the BBC (or is A&E?) version of Edith Wharton's The Buccaneers
(http://us.imdb.com/Title?0111902) -- only available on video, and has some
GORGEOUS early - late 1870's costumes.

I would finally recommend checking out Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_
and Norah Waugh's _Cut of Women's Clothes_ to get a good overview of cut in
this period.  I have to second the recommendations for the Dover Harper's
Bazar 1867-189? book, and also for Truly Victorian patterns.

I'm so VERY into the 1870's right now, so if you have further questions
don't hesitate to ask!

- Kendra



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Subject: [h-cost] Use of grey in Elizabethan period-was historic maternity/ bad portrait of Elizabeth I
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:06:23 -0700
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A quick review of QEWU reveals to tidbits, both on page 247 in the
editor's notes.  "...ash coloured taffeta tissued..&..dove coloured
tissued taffeta"

Those are probably indications of at least a few items (gownes and a
jupp in this case) of shades of grey.

Of course most of the pictures in QEWU are not colored, but my guess is
if we spent some time going through the rest of the inventories we would
find other examples of grey.


Sg

**wearing a grey gown with gold ornaments that look to
**be set on top ofribbon rosettes.  There is no citation
**for the portrait but it looks like Elizabeth I.  Does
**anyone know this one?  I don't remember seeing much
**grey in clothing of that era before and the jewelry

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 11:35:27 2002
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From: "Helen  Partner" 
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References: <002601c26083$149e5be0$2f1e86d9@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] maternity and fertility - here's the link
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here's the link...enjoy

http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/library/cba/rr86.cfm
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Helen Partner=20
  To: h-costume@net.indra.com=20
  Sent: 20 September 2002 09:52
  Subject: [h-cost] maternity and fertility


  Morning all

  There's some interesting stuff in the following, regarding fertility =
and lactation

  Dorothy McLaren "Marital Fertlity and Lactation - 1570 - 1720" in =
"Women in English Society 1500 - 1800"

  Also, for spacing etc, there's the Council For British Archaeology =
Series, Special Reports etc on The Spitalfields Project.  This stuff =
deals with C18th and the Huguenot populations in London.  I haven't got =
the link at the mo' but will post later.

  As for images of women, then have a look at an article in the Costume =
Society Journal "Costume" Number 34 , 2000...."A Fatal Fertility? =
Elizabethan and Jacobean Pregnancy Portraits", by Karen Hearn.

  There's also some maternity stuff in Karen Baclawski's "Dictionary of =
Historic Costume"

  HTH

  Regards

  Helen

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C260C5.C023F140
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here's the=20
link...enjoy


 


http://ads.=
ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/library/cba/rr86.cfm



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Helen Partner 
  
  
Sent: 20 September 2002 =
09:52

  
Subject: [h-cost] maternity and =

  fertility

  


  
Morning =
all

  
 

  
There's some =
interesting stuff in=20
  the following, regarding fertility and lactation

  
 

  
Dorothy McLaren =
"Marital Fertlity=20
  and Lactation - 1570 - 1720" in "Women in English Society 1500 -=20
  1800"

  
 

  
Also, for spacing etc, =
there's the=20
  Council For British Archaeology Series, Special Reports etc on The=20
  Spitalfields Project.  This stuff deals with C18th and the =
Huguenot=20
  populations in London.  I haven't got the link at the mo' but =
will post=20
  later.

  
 

  
As for images of women, =
then have a=20
  look at an article in the Costume Society Journal "Costume" Number 34 =
,=20
  2000...."A Fatal Fertility? Elizabethan and Jacobean Pregnancy =
Portraits", by=20
  Karen Hearn.

  
 

  
There's also some =
maternity stuff=20
  in Karen Baclawski's "Dictionary of Historic =
Costume"

  
 

  
HTH

  
 

  
Regards

  
 

  
Helen


------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C260C5.C023F140--

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From: "Helen  Partner" 
To: , 
References: <002601c26083$149e5be0$2f1e86d9@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] maternity and fertility - here's the link
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here's the link...enjoy

http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/library/cba/rr86.cfm
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Helen Partner=20
  To: h-costume@net.indra.com=20
  Sent: 20 September 2002 09:52
  Subject: [h-cost] maternity and fertility


  Morning all

  There's some interesting stuff in the following, regarding fertility =
and lactation

  Dorothy McLaren "Marital Fertlity and Lactation - 1570 - 1720" in =
"Women in English Society 1500 - 1800"

  Also, for spacing etc, there's the Council For British Archaeology =
Series, Special Reports etc on The Spitalfields Project.  This stuff =
deals with C18th and the Huguenot populations in London.  I haven't got =
the link at the mo' but will post later.

  As for images of women, then have a look at an article in the Costume =
Society Journal "Costume" Number 34 , 2000...."A Fatal Fertility? =
Elizabethan and Jacobean Pregnancy Portraits", by Karen Hearn.

  There's also some maternity stuff in Karen Baclawski's "Dictionary of =
Historic Costume"

  HTH

  Regards

  Helen

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C260C5.C023F140
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









here's the=20
link...enjoy


 


http://ads.=
ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/library/cba/rr86.cfm



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Helen Partner 
  
  
Sent: 20 September 2002 =
09:52

  
Subject: [h-cost] maternity and =

  fertility

  


  
Morning =
all

  
 

  
There's some =
interesting stuff in=20
  the following, regarding fertility and lactation

  
 

  
Dorothy McLaren =
"Marital Fertlity=20
  and Lactation - 1570 - 1720" in "Women in English Society 1500 -=20
  1800"

  
 

  
Also, for spacing etc, =
there's the=20
  Council For British Archaeology Series, Special Reports etc on The=20
  Spitalfields Project.  This stuff deals with C18th and the =
Huguenot=20
  populations in London.  I haven't got the link at the mo' but =
will post=20
  later.

  
 

  
As for images of women, =
then have a=20
  look at an article in the Costume Society Journal "Costume" Number 34 =
,=20
  2000...."A Fatal Fertility? Elizabethan and Jacobean Pregnancy =
Portraits", by=20
  Karen Hearn.

  
 

  
There's also some =
maternity stuff=20
  in Karen Baclawski's "Dictionary of Historic =
Costume"

  
 

  
HTH

  
 

  
Regards

  
 

  
Helen


------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C260C5.C023F140--

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From: Heather Meadows 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online picture of 'blank' human figure drawing?
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try doing a web search for "croquis"


> 
> Hi All,
> 
> May I pick your brains again? I remember that once upon a time I found two
> drawings, one of a male and one of a female figure on the net, that were
> printable to be used for drawing one's own costume designs. Now, I'm not bad at
> drawing but I am awful at trying to make a human figure blank (been there, done
> that, turned out very painful :-)
> Does anyone know of such a drawing or has one perhaps at home and could send it
> to me so that I can draw up my 'Evil Queen' costume? *grins*
> Thanks ever so much
> 
> Nicole
> 
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
> Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: marquis@kipar.org
> 
> __________________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 12:23:56 2002
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Status: RO

        If I ever win the lottery (fat chance) the first thing I will do
is pay off all my debts and the second will be to beg you to make me a
grand and glorious gown.  Bjarne, you are absolutely the tops!

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 12:28:51 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:28:55 -0400
Status: RO

Hi,

I'm Ann Catelli, or Cecila Dollmaker in the SCA.
I'm interested in medieval, renaissance, nineteenth century (for dance mostly), 1910's (dancing again), and science fiction costuming.

My interest in costumes started when I wanted to make my third doll a fairy-tale princess (I was only 13), which lead me to the library & the many secondary and tertiary sources on clothing, & here I
am.


I have been to several Costume Cons, mostly those on the East Coast, & helped to run the Hartford one in 2000.
Costume Cons have a science fiction & fantasy masquerade (costume contest), a historical masquerade, a future fashion show of designs from the Future Fashion Folio, which were submitted well in advance
& picked for the folio & may be made up by any member of the convention, a doll contest, displays of past costumes, vendors, and many many classes & talks.
I enjoy them a lot, which would explain the 8 I have attended and the next two (so far) that I plan to attend, which are Chicago in 2003 and Atlanta in 2004.

yours,
Ann Catelli


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 13:28:24 2002
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I was just reading the new issue of Threads, and one of the
reader tips for cutting thread on planes -- use the tiny blade in
a dental floos container.  You don't even need to remove the floss!

what a great idea...

.heather.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 13:32:54 2002
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From: "Saragrace knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Introduction & Costume Con
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:20:59 -0700
Status: RO

Welcome! I think you'll find a few dollmakers (I do cloth
sculpture/dolls) as well as costumers on the list.  Are you on the east
coast?  If you are near Hartford I know someone who also is interested
in doing dolls.  Have you ever been to Osgood's in Springfield??

Saragrace

www.saragrace.net

**-----Original Message-----
**From: h-costume-admin@indra.com 
**[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Catelli
**Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 9:29 AM
**To: h-costume@indra.com
**Subject: [h-cost] Introduction & Costume Con
**
**
**Hi,
**
**I'm Ann Catelli, or Cecila Dollmaker in the SCA.
**I'm interested in medieval, renaissance, nineteenth century 
**(for dance mostly), 1910's (dancing again), and science 
**fiction costuming.
**
**My interest in costumes started when I wanted to make my 
**third doll a fairy-tale princess (I was only 13), which lead 
**me to the library & the many secondary and tertiary sources 
**on clothing, & here I am.
**
**
**I have been to several Costume Cons, mostly those on the East 
**Coast, & helped to run the Hartford one in 2000. Costume Cons 
**have a science fiction & fantasy masquerade (costume 
**contest), a historical masquerade, a future fashion show of 
**designs from the Future Fashion Folio, which were submitted 
**well in advance & picked for the folio & may be made up by 
**any member of the convention, a doll contest, displays of 
**past costumes, vendors, and many many classes & talks. I 
**enjoy them a lot, which would explain the 8 I have attended 
**and the next two (so far) that I plan to attend, which are 
**Chicago in 2003 and Atlanta in 2004.
**
**yours,
**Ann Catelli
**
**
**_______________________________________________
**h-costume mailing list
**h-costume@mail.indra.com 
**http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
**

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 13:34:00 2002
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] Use of grey in Elizabethan period-was historic maternity/ bad portrait of Elizabeth I
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:22:29 -0700
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Gack-I can't believe I used to instead of two.  I hope it was a typo,
and not my brain going dead.

**
**A quick review of QEWU reveals to tidbits, both on page 247 

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 14:25:51 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Re:  Croquis/Figure to Draw Clothes on...
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:25:40 +0000
Status: RO

I have a funny story about this (not really costume related...).

It was the beginning of my Fashion Figure Drawing class and my teacher was 
talking about the figures that are used to illustrate your clothing ideas.  
These figures are called a croquis (pronounced crow-key for all us 
non-French speaking people). One of the students in my class asked the 
teacher why they were called croquis.  And very matter-of-factly, my teacher 
responded with, "Well, because that is what you draw the clothes on."  Then 
she moved on to her next bit in the lecture as if she had really answered 
the question.  Everyone in the class just kind of looked at each other and 
shrugged.  I guess she really didn't know why it was called a croqui.

Now this is the new joke at home...  so why does such and such happen?  Why 
do you call such and such? Answer:  Well that's because you draw the clothes 
on it...

Well maybe it's not that funny...  You probably had to be there.

Anyway, here is one femail croquis that may be useful:

http://www.fidm.org/Academic/Admissions/fd2port.html

I did a search on the Internet for other croquis and was not successful.  
I'm at work, or I'd scan in some of the ones I drew to help you out.

Your Evil Queen costume sounds like so much fun.  I really hope you can post 
your diary of the construction.  We would all love to see it!

:) jessica


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 18:04:50 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] lace book
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 00:05:32 +0200
Status: RO

Hello all,
A person from the lace list i am on sended this URL for an old antique lace
book. The book is downloadable if you have acrobat reader and a quick acces
to the net.
It is a french book, but it do have some lovely pictures of antique laces,
all the different kinds there are. Really a treassure.
Here is the URL if you are interrested:
http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/lace.html
Chapter 7 (i think) has my favourite laces, Malines, Lille and Chantilly-
and finally Blondes.
Hope you injoy it as i have.

Bjarne


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Subject: [h-cost] Gates of Hell and Maternity wear
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 00:36:53 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

Sorry folks but real life has been a bit hectic
lately;

1.Gates of Hell - Robin,I haven't forgotten your
research and my promises,Waterstones is undergoing
major rennovations and their Costume section is
dismantled.The 2nd hand shop that I saw those costume
books in did not have the one that mentioned gates of
hell.I am going to the V&A as well as the BL next week
and will see if I can get any leads for you.

2.Maternity wear - of course I missed the entire post
but Nancy Bradfield has three garments dated
1770-75,1825-28 and 1895 that are drawn from extent
examples.(Costume in detail 1730-1930,Eric Dobby
Publishing 1968 thru' 1997,ISBN 1 85882 038 3 )The
last is interesting since in the under-bodice of the
garment there are two sets of lacings beneath the
sides of the breasts,probably in line with the edges
of the ribs that allows for the expanding
waistline.The over section of the bodice is slighlty
pouched which would not show much during the
pregnancy.Late Victorian women also wore maternity
corsets.Their earlier counterparts circa the 50's
hitched up the top hoop of the crinoline and shawls
were extensively used to drape and conceal the
pregnancy.(Remember that they were so prissy that
'nice' women didn't go out in public when in an
interesting condition.)The garment circa 1770-75 is a
maternity jacket.(Although in the Madness of King
George a heavily pregnant courtier is in full Court
Dress and standing at a soiree.)Prior to this there
doesn't seem to be much in the way of special wear
during pregnancies aside from relaxing the bodice or
corset lacings.I seem to recall that there were
varieties of nightgowns and robes for the laying-in of
the very wealthy.But this was from a very very old
dictionary of terms I once had and that too was a very
long time ago.

Marcus.

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From: "Wanda Pease" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in mycunningplan for an Elizabethian
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:35:44 -0700
Status: RO

I've heard the statement that women "had a baby every year" frequently, but
I have seen precious little evidence for it.  Real, hard evidence, not just
the "it must be so because they didn't use birth control" assumption.  My
Grandmother was born in 1880, she had three children, only one dieing in
infancy.  My mother was born in 1911,  she also had three children (we are
all to ornery to die -- yet).  My aunt, a contemporary of my mother had only
one child.  I realize that this is not good statistical data, because it is
anecdotal, but if you look at actual historical figures from the queens of
England (Victoria and Phillipa of Hainhault as exceptions) to the New
England Midwife whose diary was published recently I don't believe the "baby
every  year"  statement is commonly born out.  (No pun intended)

Just because there was no "pill" didn't mean that women hadn't figured out
what caused pregnancy, and how to counteract it.  They seem to have used
vinegar soaked sponges, various herbal products, Queen Anne's Lace seed,
etc.  Also lactating women tend to become pregnant less frequently (not that
there weren't "surprise" babies).  Nourishment has a lot to do with a
woman's ability to become pregnant as well.

So, my question is:  Are there any real, hard statistics to uphold the idea
that women were constantly pregnant, or could this be one of those
frequently repeated myths about the middle ages on the order of the lord's
right to the bride's first night?

Regina Romsey
-------------------------------------------
Yes, it used to intrigue me that none of the historical costume books
mentioned maternity clothes, seeing that it was normal for women of all
classes to have a baby every year (well, I did once see a Regency maternity
dress.) But of course they mostly just adapted their normal clothing.




Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 20:42:53 2002
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From: "Joan Broneske" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in mycunningplan for an Elizabethian
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:41:11 -0700
Status: RO

I don't know about actual statistical evidence, but I have been doing my
genealogy lately and looking through a lot of census records from 1800
through 1900 and there are a lot, and I mean probably 2/3 anyway, of women
in the census with at least 5 children.... and some with as many as 10! and
I would venture to say that most of them had them pretty much one right
after the other, as in one a year or every year and a half.


Joan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanda Pease" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 5:35 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in mycunningplan
for an Elizabethian


> I've heard the statement that women "had a baby every year" frequently,
but
> I have seen precious little evidence for it.  Real, hard evidence, not
just
> the "it must be so because they didn't use birth control" assumption.  My
> Grandmother was born in 1880, she had three children, only one dieing in
> infancy.  My mother was born in 1911,  she also had three children (we are
> all to ornery to die -- yet).  My aunt, a contemporary of my mother had
only
> one child.  I realize that this is not good statistical data, because it
is
> anecdotal, but if you look at actual historical figures from the queens of
> England (Victoria and Phillipa of Hainhault as exceptions) to the New
> England Midwife whose diary was published recently I don't believe the
"baby
> every  year"  statement is commonly born out.  (No pun intended)
>
> Just because there was no "pill" didn't mean that women hadn't figured out
> what caused pregnancy, and how to counteract it.  They seem to have used
> vinegar soaked sponges, various herbal products, Queen Anne's Lace seed,
> etc.  Also lactating women tend to become pregnant less frequently (not
that
> there weren't "surprise" babies).  Nourishment has a lot to do with a
> woman's ability to become pregnant as well.
>
> So, my question is:  Are there any real, hard statistics to uphold the
idea
> that women were constantly pregnant, or could this be one of those
> frequently repeated myths about the middle ages on the order of the lord's
> right to the bride's first night?
>
> Regina Romsey
> -------------------------------------------
> Yes, it used to intrigue me that none of the historical costume books
> mentioned maternity clothes, seeing that it was normal for women of all
> classes to have a baby every year (well, I did once see a Regency
maternity
> dress.) But of course they mostly just adapted their normal clothing.
>
>
>
>
> Kate Bunting
> Library, University of Derby
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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Subject: [h-cost] Help locating a portrait
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 21:16:53 -0500
Status: RO

Hi,
I'm trying to find a copy of Laudonia de Medici, by A. Bronzino. I've looked
at the web gallery of art, I've done a couple of different Google searches,
she doesn't seem to be anywhere.
I'll find time to go to the library, eventually, and should find it there,
but in the meantime, would someone just happen to know where I could find an
online copy? The only copy of it I have now is in 20,000 years of fashion,
but it's small, and it's black and white.
Thanks!
Audrey
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 20 21:23:53 2002
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From: kate 
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:22:41 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Greetings Audrey!

Good luck in your search. I've been looking for years
and have yet to find one. If you do, please, please,
please, let me know!

A friend tried to photograph the painting for me, but
it's very high up on the wall and it was too dark in
the Plazzo Pitti to get a decent picture.

kate
PS--I've also seen her name as "Laudomia de Medici."

BTW--don't bother buying the catalog of the Plazzo
Pitti. There are NO photos of her portrait. :-(


--- Audrey Bergeron-Morin <> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm trying to find a copy of Laudonia de Medici, by
> A. Bronzino. I've looked
> at the web gallery of art, I've done a couple of
> different Google searches,
> she doesn't seem to be anywhere.
> I'll find time to go to the library, eventually, and
> should find it there,
> but in the meantime, would someone just happen to
> know where I could find an
> online copy? The only copy of it I have now is in
> 20,000 years of fashion,
> but it's small, and it's black and white.
> Thanks!
> Audrey
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help locating a portrait
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:38:41 +1000 (EST)
Status: RO

 --- Audrey Bergeron-Morin 
wrote: > Hi,
> I'm trying to find a copy of Laudonia de Medici, by
> A. Bronzino. I've looked
> at the web gallery of art, I've done a couple of
> different Google searches,
> she doesn't seem to be anywhere.
> I'll find time to go to the library, eventually, and
> should find it there,
> but in the meantime, would someone just happen to
> know where I could find an
> online copy? The only copy of it I have now is in
> 20,000 years of fashion,
> but it's small, and it's black and white.
> Thanks!
> Audrey


I've come across this problem before, and in many
cases it happens because what is known as "Portrait of
Laudomia de Medici" in one book or catalogue, is
online or in another book as "portrait of an unknown
woman" or some thing along those lines. If you could
scan your pic and upload it somewhere we can take a
look at it, someone may know it by another name. I'd
be happy to upload it to my site if you don't know
anyone else who could do this for you. Just a thought.


Bella

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From: "Genie" 
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Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon21
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 21:51:40 -0500
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This is posting late, but here goes.  A costume con is panels on various
types of costume/costuming construction, how to's or how not to.  If you're
into masquerade, movement or presentation tutorials. And everywhere and
everyone in costume or bits of costume.  Talking about costume, thinking
about costume.  In other words business as usual..

Genie

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From: Lynn 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core Membership
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 20:12:49 -0700
Status: RO

(I apologize in advance for responding so very late.  Our computer was down
and now I have over 1,000 message to wade through.  I've gotten this far in
1 1/2 hours.)

I never tried to read the messages because I hate Yahoo.  I've signed up for
it a couple of times and then Yahoo says that someone else is using my name
and I need to find another one.  As long as you make the fabric swaps on
Yahoo, I won't be able to be involved, but if it was on the list - with the
caveat that the communications immediately go private - I would be interestd
in participating.

Just one more person's opinion that Yahoo is truly following in it's
original definition.

LynnD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: CommunityZero: Important Changes to Core
Membership


>
> On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
>
> > Can anyone give specific numbers on the volume for the swap & sell
> > group?  I know that it can be good to separate discussion and
> > commercial aspects of a group, but if the "commercial" volume is
> > extremely small, might it be a more efficient compromise to go back to
> > having people announce available items on the main list -- as long as
> > we work really really hard to keep the subsequent responses to private
> > e-mail?
>
> There's only been a handful of messages since the group started (around
> the turn of this year) -- maybe less than a dozen in all that time.
> Perhaps announcements on the main list would work well enough. I think
> when Danielle started the side list, it was in expectation that we'd have
> too many sale offers to politely handle on the list, and that perhaps
> people were refraining from posting such things to avoid inappropriate
> volume of sales posts.
>
> Before that, though, I periodically offered extra fabric on the list, and
> I've seen other people offer patterns. I don't mind that myself, but
> perhaps other people do. I think a lot depends on not abusing the
> audience.
>
> I think one reason the volume was so low is that CZ isn't really an email
> list; it's a web page, and messages appear there. We get notifications
> when someone posts, but we have to go to the page to read, and it can be
> difficult to actually find your way to the messages.
>
> --Robin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1870s gowns
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:50:50 +0100
Status: RO




>I'm in the beginning stages of planning an 1873-5 (ish) evening gown.

I just came on here to recommend The Buccaneers and I see that Kendra has beaten me to it! I just tracked down a secondhand copy of this (for some reason known only to themselves the BBC has deleted the video over here in the UK and US tapes won't play on our machines - you'd think they'd be eager to recoup some of the ££thousands they must have spent on those costumes, but still..). I've been watching it this morning and it is so divine costume-wise. I'm not sure how accurate it is - there seem to be an awful lot of heaving cleavages in daylight hours which I'd be suspicious of - but oh my gosh they're such beautiful beautiful dresses....


Kate (another one), drooling ever so slightly....







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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Historical pregnancy, was Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in mycunningplan for an Elizabethian
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:25:38 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

> > Just because there was no "pill" didn't mean that women hadn't figured out
> > what caused pregnancy, and how to counteract it.  They seem to have used
> > vinegar soaked sponges, various herbal products, Queen Anne's Lace seed,
> > etc.  

As a little anecdote from my family, my great-grandma (whose ring and only
valuable possession I am wearing every day *S* and who I will always remember
as the old lovely lady all in stout and strict black with the white neat hair
bun, she had hip length hair until her death!) had 12 children, and most of
those survived. My 'Omama' was born in the 1880s/90s.

She didn't know, she honestly did NOT know during the first 3 children WHERE
they came from. I am not making this up. She was 15 or such when she was maried
to her husband (no, she was not asked, they were in Masuren - now Poland - back
then a part of Germany, and the husband's family had originated in Russia). She
told my mother that she kept wondering, not being able to realise that the
grunting man and the discomfort for a few minutes in her bed had anything to do
with pregnancy, and she said to my mum that her mother told her finally: 'where
there is nothing getting in, there will be nothing coming out.' and this was
her entire SexEd. She also said that from then on she used to wear her red
petticoat as often as possible and her husband complained that she wore it so
often, asking if it was her time 'again'. You can guess surely, the red
petticoat meant she had her period and was untouchable.

These were rural people, and she was brought up in utter ignorance, and spend
many years of her life being pregnant, because this was 'what a good woman did:
shut up and let him get over with, and bear him children, and obey'. They then
had to move to the mid western part of Germany into the city where I was born,
which was a coal mining centre until the 1960s/70s, because they were starving
in Masuren.

Oh my, I tell you all something, I loved her, and I think she is/would be proud
and happy, that her two great-granddaughters are absolutely independant, free,
and don't even need to think about emancipation, because we just are.

Western society has come a long way...

Nicole
P.S. The ring has an extra story: it is a yellowy brown stone and everyone
always smiled patronisingly at her, because brown stones are worth nothing,
right? But it was the only possession she ever had,and she wore it until the
ring part was worn through, the setting is only silver, but the stone is pretty
huge. Anyway, no one wanted it when she died, so I, the youngest kiddie, asked
if I may have it, coz I loved her and because I LOVE big fat glittery stones,
always have. (now there's a surprise *LOL*). Finally, last december, I took it
to a jeweller friend, because the ring had broken, worn through so thin. he
looked at it, went very still and quiet,stared at it and examined it for a long
long time, finally asking if I knew what I had. I said 'yeah, sorry, I know it
is just glass and worth nothing, but please repair it because it was my
Omamas'. he just shook his head and proceeded to tell me gently that this was
one of the biggest, purest, with the most lustre, natural citrines he had ever
seen, and it is worth several thousand pounds, maybe even ten! AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!
I keeled over, fanned myself, then laughed my butt off and slapped an imaginary
High Five to my Omama somewhere in heaven, coz she DID have a precious ring!!!
It was her sole precious possession, and now it is my sole precious possession. *G*

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: [h-cost] E-bay Girls Authentic ETHNIC/PEASANT COSTUME Polish
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:40:06 +0100
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Hi all,

Someone may be interested in
Girls Authentic ETHNIC/PEASANT COSTUME Polish
Item # 713560792

at
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=713560792


There are a lot of pictures so it takes quite a time to load, but I
think it's worth the wait:-)

best wishes
Stevie



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 21 07:53:50 2002
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
To: 
References: <20020921112538.43053.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Historical pregnancy, was Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in mycunningplan for an Elizabethian
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 07:44:41 -0400
Status: RO

Nicole, what a wonderful story.

I have my mom's mother's ring, and a beautiful topaz that she wore every
day. They have no real monetary value, but they are loaded with value to me!

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 7:25 AM
Subject: Historical pregnancy, was Re: [h-cost] I think there is an
essential flaw in mycunningplan for an Elizabethian


> > > Just because there was no "pill" didn't mean that women hadn't figured
out
> > > what caused pregnancy, and how to counteract it.  They seem to have
used
> > > vinegar soaked sponges, various herbal products, Queen Anne's Lace
seed,
> > > etc.
>
> As a little anecdote from my family, my great-grandma (whose ring and only
> valuable possession I am wearing every day *S* and who I will always
remember
> as the old lovely lady all in stout and strict black with the white neat
hair
> bun, she had hip length hair until her death!) had 12 children, and most
of
> those survived. My 'Omama' was born in the 1880s/90s.
>
> She didn't know, she honestly did NOT know during the first 3 children
WHERE
> they came from. I am not making this up. She was 15 or such when she was
maried
> to her husband (no, she was not asked, they were in Masuren - now Poland -
back
> then a part of Germany, and the husband's family had originated in
Russia). She
> told my mother that she kept wondering, not being able to realise that the
> grunting man and the discomfort for a few minutes in her bed had anything
to do
> with pregnancy, and she said to my mum that her mother told her finally:
'where
> there is nothing getting in, there will be nothing coming out.' and this
was
> her entire SexEd. She also said that from then on she used to wear her red
> petticoat as often as possible and her husband complained that she wore it
so
> often, asking if it was her time 'again'. You can guess surely, the red
> petticoat meant she had her period and was untouchable.
>
> These were rural people, and she was brought up in utter ignorance, and
spend
> many years of her life being pregnant, because this was 'what a good woman
did:
> shut up and let him get over with, and bear him children, and obey'. They
then
> had to move to the mid western part of Germany into the city where I was
born,
> which was a coal mining centre until the 1960s/70s, because they were
starving
> in Masuren.
>
> Oh my, I tell you all something, I loved her, and I think she is/would be
proud
> and happy, that her two great-granddaughters are absolutely independant,
free,
> and don't even need to think about emancipation, because we just are.
>
> Western society has come a long way...
>
> Nicole
> P.S. The ring has an extra story: it is a yellowy brown stone and everyone
> always smiled patronisingly at her, because brown stones are worth
nothing,
> right? But it was the only possession she ever had,and she wore it until
the
> ring part was worn through, the setting is only silver, but the stone is
pretty
> huge. Anyway, no one wanted it when she died, so I, the youngest kiddie,
asked
> if I may have it, coz I loved her and because I LOVE big fat glittery
stones,
> always have. (now there's a surprise *LOL*). Finally, last december, I
took it
> to a jeweller friend, because the ring had broken, worn through so thin.
he
> looked at it, went very still and quiet,stared at it and examined it for a
long
> long time, finally asking if I knew what I had. I said 'yeah, sorry, I
know it
> is just glass and worth nothing, but please repair it because it was my
> Omamas'. he just shook his head and proceeded to tell me gently that this
was
> one of the biggest, purest, with the most lustre, natural citrines he had
ever
> seen, and it is worth several thousand pounds, maybe even ten!
AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!
> I keeled over, fanned myself, then laughed my butt off and slapped an
imaginary
> High Five to my Omama somewhere in heaven, coz she DID have a precious
ring!!!
> It was her sole precious possession, and now it is my sole precious
possession. *G*
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
> Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 14:41:07 +0200
Status: RO

This is a little off topic to your question, but i have often wondered how
wonderfull it would be if someone, author -art historian or other would
compleate every countrys portraits in annalogic order.
Whouw what a treassure that would be! and every country had such books at
least at the library with all countries portraits.
I found one book once many years ago, but it was only text with a
description of each portrait in Denmark, 6 large thick books full of
descriptions. This was in Roskilde.
Wouldnt that be wonderfull?

Bjarne


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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 07:39:37 -0700
Status: RO

Audrey, if you will tell me what section or page it is on I can scan it
for you and put it up on my website.  I will try to find it myself, but
I can't remember if there is an index to the plates.

Sg

**-----Original Message-----
**From: h-costume-admin@indra.com 
**[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin
**Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:17 PM
**To: h-costume@indra.com
**Subject: [h-cost] Help locating a portrait
**
**
**Hi,
**I'm trying to find a copy of Laudonia de Medici, by A. 
**Bronzino. I've looked at the web gallery of art, I've done a 
**couple of different Google searches, she doesn't seem to be 
**anywhere. I'll find time to go to the library, eventually, 
**and should find it there, but in the meantime, would someone 
**just happen to know where I could find an online copy? The 
**only copy of it I have now is in 20,000 years of fashion, but 
**it's small, and it's black and white. Thanks! Audrey 
**_______________________________________________
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**h-costume@mail.indra.com 
**http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
**

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Subject: Re: Historical pregnancy, was Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in mycunningplan for an Elizabethian
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:48:58 -0500
Status: RO

I have no idea if my family can be taken as average or not. They were
German immigrants to Chicago- came over some time in the 1870-1880's. My
great grandmother on my father's side had 11 children, two of whom died
in infancy. But she didn't do it one right after the other. Her last
child (who died) was born at the same time her oldest daughter was having
her first child! Tillie (oldest daughter) didn't marry particularly young
either, she was in her twenties. My grandmother (second oldest) had to
help raise her younger siblings so when she got married (1914), she vowed
she was only going to have one child as she'd already raised so many.
Sure enough, my dad's an only child. Even if GGM didn't have access to
any sort of BC, obviously Grandmother did, unfortunately she died before
I was of an age to ask her questions like that, so exactly HOW she
managed to have only one child is a mystery. 

Hmmmm.....this is almost completely devoid of costume content....have to
watch that......

Karen

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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 1870s gowns
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:04:56 -0700
Status: RO

Kate is right, the costumes in The Buccaneers are not 100% accurate, but
they are great inspiration.  I don't think many movies DO have perfectly
accurate costumes.  You need to take them with a grain of salt as regards to
accuracy, but that doesn't mean that they can't be fun!  I myself like to
see how people move in costume, and when you can see a decent production
where the women are wearing corsets etc., you can get a decent idea.  I love
that in The Buccaneers, they show the girls running and climbing trees and
all sorts of other things that you normally don't see women do in period
costumes.

Watch the video and then sit down and compare what you saw with contemporary
fashion plates and patterns from Janet Arnold etc.

- Kendra

>----- Original Message -----
>From: Kate Cole
>To: h-costume@indra.com
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 2:50 AM
>Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1870s gowns


>>I'm in the beginning stages of planning an 1873-5 (ish) evening gown.

>I just came on here to recommend The Buccaneers and I see that Kendra has
beaten me to it! I just tracked down a secondhand >copy of this (for some
reason known only to themselves the BBC has deleted the video over here in
the UK and US tapes won't >play on our machines - you'd think they'd be
eager to recoup some of the ££thousands they must have spent on those
costumes, but >still..). I've been watching it this morning and it is so
divine costume-wise. I'm not sure how accurate it is - there seem to be an
awful >lot of heaving cleavages in daylight hours which I'd be suspicious
of - but oh my gosh they're such beautiful beautiful dresses....
>Kate (another one), drooling ever so slightly....





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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 18:55:25 +0100
Status: RO

Eve's herb give a great insight to the history of herbal birth control and
abortion. Eve btw wore afig leaf (sorry best costume content I could come up
with !)

Mel

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From: Jonna Hayden 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help locating a portrait
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Greetings-

I have a small jpeg of her in color--can you take
attachments?

Jonna

--- Audrey Bergeron-Morin 
wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm trying to find a copy of Laudonia de Medici, by A.
> Bronzino. I've looked
> at the web gallery of art, I've done a couple of
> different Google searches,
> she doesn't seem to be anywhere.
> I'll find time to go to the library, eventually, and
> should find it there,
> but in the meantime, would someone just happen to know
> where I could find an
> online copy? The only copy of it I have now is in 20,000
> years of fashion,
> but it's small, and it's black and white.
> Thanks!
> Audrey
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 16:38:26 -0400
Status: RO



This is getting pretty off-topic, but I wanted to write one more time
because I'm interested in this subject. I was not picking on Cassandra or
anyone else with my first post, just writing to correct an error I see
frequently in many places.

Some people (men and women both) are not very fertile. Even today, fertility
specialists don't know what to do about most kinds of male infertility.
There have always been people who are otherwise healthy and who, for no
known reason, have only one or two children. The fact that a woman in the
past had few children doesn't NECESSARILY mean that she did anything to keep
it that way.

A woman with a normal fertility cycle is fertile for several days every
month. Some women have longer cycles and others, which leaves them with
fewer fertile days per years. Others have shorter cycles. But NO ONE is
fertile for more than a few days every cycle. If women have intercourse
during those fertile days, they are probably going to get pregnant. While a
lot of research is going on to help infertile women with diet, vitamins,
etc., it's clear that most women who are even marginally healthy will get
pregnant fairly often if they do nothing to prevent it and are married (or
whatever) to a fertile man. That means lots of pregnancies, unless you know
effective birth control methods or you decide to abstain.

There is plenty of published, scientific evidence to show that breastfeeding
GENERALLY renders a woman infertile for many months. How? The hormones
produced during lactation keep them from menstruating. A woman can't get
pregnant again until after her menstruation returns. (But of course, she can
alwasy get pregnant the first time she ovulates, before she's had a period.)
So over a large population, breastfeeding spaces children about two years
apart. However, the number of months without menstruation varies widely (I
know a woman who bottle fed her children, but didn't have a period for
nearly a year with either one!), and as I previously mentioned, using a wet
nurse means that the woman's fertility will come back much earlier. Wet
nurses were VERY popular in many time periods, even for relatively poor
women. I read a very gruesome article (sorry -- no source) about how it was
popular for French women of all classes to send their children to the
country to be fed on cow's milk a century or two ago, even though the death
rate (no Pasteurization) was appallingly high.

Finally, it's relatively easy for a woman to avoid intercourse during her
fertile days, if she has a regular cycle and if she knows what to look for.
I don't know how widespread this information was in the past -- some people
say very, and some say not at all. I find reports on that to be biased by
people's political and social beliefs, not by research.

My point, again, is that in the past it was far more "normal" than it is
today to have large families, but it was also far more "normal" (because of
restrictions on marriage) for women to have no children. But these large
families were not necessarily produced by having a baby every year. We don't
know how much of it was by design, but many women also had small families.
The difference is the distribution of these types. And thus, though many
women needed to be able to adjust their clothes, many others didn't -- ever.

Which still doesn't explain the relative scarcity of maternity clothes.
Maybe, like today's maternity clothes, they got passed around until they
fell apart? 

Gail Finke
shutting up now

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From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help locating a portrait
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 17:19:08 -0500
Status: RO

Oh yes, yes definitely!
I went to the library today and just couldn't find ONE example of her, and
I'd just LOVE to see her in color. I do have the black and white small pic
in 20,000 years of fashion, but it's not ideal :-)
Thank you so much :-)
Audrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonna Hayden" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help locating a portrait


> Greetings-
>
> I have a small jpeg of her in color--can you take
> attachments?
>
> Jonna
>
> --- Audrey Bergeron-Morin 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I'm trying to find a copy of Laudonia de Medici, by A.
> > Bronzino. I've looked
> > at the web gallery of art, I've done a couple of
> > different Google searches,
> > she doesn't seem to be anywhere.
> > I'll find time to go to the library, eventually, and
> > should find it there,
> > but in the meantime, would someone just happen to know
> > where I could find an
> > online copy? The only copy of it I have now is in 20,000
> > years of fashion,
> > but it's small, and it's black and white.
> > Thanks!
> > Audrey
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 21 18:33:13 2002
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From: "Helen  Partner" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: child spacing (long)
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 23:49:51 +0100
Status: RO

Oh boy, I really don't want to get into this one..and despite DH advising me
not to..here goes...


Gail said
"If women have intercourse> during those fertile days, they are probably
going to get pregnant. While a> lot of research is going on to help
infertile women with diet, vitamins,> etc., it's clear that most women who
are even marginally healthy will get> pregnant fairly often if they do
nothing to prevent it"

I don't want to patronise, but this is a real generalisation.  Take a look
at any number  of web sites (ie TCOYF - taking charge of your fertility and
ttc - trying to conceive) and you'll see it's a far more complex issue than
this and not so easy to achieve, even for healthy women!  I personally have
an issue with (as do others) the term "infertile", too..having had fertility
problems for years.

"The hormones> produced during lactation keep them from menstruating."

May I correct you? The hormones produced during lactation can generally
prevent/suppress ovulation, not menstruation

 "Finally, it's relatively easy for a woman to avoid intercourse during her>
fertile days, if she has a regular cycle and if she knows what to look for.
> I don't know how widespread this information was in the past -- some
people> say very, and some say not at all. I find reports on that to be
biased by> people's political and social beliefs, not by research."

I think it may be easier for some women today, to avoid sex as a whole.
However, I think it presupposes that a great many women today even
understand how their bodies work and how to tell whether they're "fertile"
or not!!  Honestly, believe me, I thought I was really knowledgeable before
I got my hands on a certain "life-changing" book, which is an accepted
"fertility awareness bible"..boy, was I wrong!  Anyway, to the crux of
it..even if a woman in the past had a great knowledge of a) the
sympto-thermal method and b) her own body, how easy was it for her to tell
her husband he couldn't have sex and to prevent it from happening? I think I
know the answer to *that* one!

Anyway, I think one very big/significant issue is being overlooked here, in
the discussion of whether or not, women had a pregnancy every year.  It is
entirely possible that many women were pregnant every year, look at Queen
Anne...19 pregnancies!  Anyway, the issue is this..many pregnancies did not
go to term, ending in miscarriage, many pregnancies ended in
stillbirth..these  go unrecorded on the vast majority family trees.  The
incidence of miscarriage even today, is 1 in 4 pregnancies..maybe even
higher.  Who knows, with  lower levels of maternal nutrition and higher
incidence of  disease or teratogens, miscarriage may have been more common
than today.  Without throwing accurate statistics and data into the mix, I
think it's unsafe to make any kind of firm conclusion.  On the grounds that
we don't have that much info on miscarriage and stillbirth in past
societies, I think we have to say the juries out.  Live births don't
necessarily equal the full number of pregnancies.  Even today, we don't have
the full picture on miscarriage for many reasons..women didn't even know
they were pregnant, foetal death doesn't get recorded until 24 weeks
gestation etc etc.

Anyway, 'nuff said..and Blackadder's on the telly..oh and my baby is
awake..must go and practice my wet-nurse role...again  ;-)

Regards

Helen
----- Original Message -----


From: "Gail & Scott Finke" 
To: 
Sent: 21 September 2002 21:38
Subject: [h-cost] Re: child spacing (long)
>
> This is getting pretty off-topic, but I wanted to write one more time
> because I'm interested in this subject. I was not picking on Cassandra or
> anyone else with my first post, just writing to correct an error I see
> frequently in many places.
>
> Some people (men and women both) are not very fertile. Even today,
fertility
> specialists don't know what to do about most kinds of male infertility.
> There have always been people who are otherwise healthy and who, for no
> known reason, have only one or two children. The fact that a woman in the
> past had few children doesn't NECESSARILY mean that she did anything to
keep
> it that way.
>
> A woman with a normal fertility cycle is fertile for several days every
> month. Some women have longer cycles and others, which leaves them with
> fewer fertile days per years. Others have shorter cycles. But NO ONE is
> fertile for more than a few days every cycle. If women have intercourse
> during those fertile days, they are probably going to get pregnant. While
a
> lot of research is going on to help infertile women with diet, vitamins,
> etc., it's clear that most women who are even marginally healthy will get
> pregnant fairly often if they do nothing to prevent it and are married (or
> whatever) to a fertile man. That means lots of pregnancies, unless you
know
> effective birth control methods or you decide to abstain.
>
> There is plenty of published, scientific evidence to show that
breastfeeding
> GENERALLY renders a woman infertile for many months. How? The hormones
> produced during lactation keep them from menstruating. A woman can't get
> pregnant again until after her menstruation returns. (But of course, she
can
> alwasy get pregnant the first time she ovulates, before she's had a
period.)
> So over a large population, breastfeeding spaces children about two years
> apart. However, the number of months without menstruation varies widely (I
> know a woman who bottle fed her children, but didn't have a period for
> nearly a year with either one!), and as I previously mentioned, using a
wet
> nurse means that the woman's fertility will come back much earlier. Wet
> nurses were VERY popular in many time periods, even for relatively poor
> women. I read a very gruesome article (sorry -- no source) about how it
was
> popular for French women of all classes to send their children to the
> country to be fed on cow's milk a century or two ago, even though the
death
> rate (no Pasteurization) was appallingly high.
>
> Finally, it's relatively easy for a woman to avoid intercourse during her
> fertile days, if she has a regular cycle and if she knows what to look
for.
> I don't know how widespread this information was in the past -- some
people
> say very, and some say not at all. I find reports on that to be biased by
> people's political and social beliefs, not by research.
>
> My point, again, is that in the past it was far more "normal" than it is
> today to have large families, but it was also far more "normal" (because
of
> restrictions on marriage) for women to have no children. But these large
> families were not necessarily produced by having a baby every year. We
don't
> know how much of it was by design, but many women also had small families.
> The difference is the distribution of these types. And thus, though many
> women needed to be able to adjust their clothes, many others didn't --
ever.
>
> Which still doesn't explain the relative scarcity of maternity clothes.
> Maybe, like today's maternity clothes, they got passed around until they
> fell apart?
>
> Gail Finke
> shutting up now
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help locating a portrait
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 23:06:14 -0500
Status: RO

Ah, one of my favorites.  As far as I can tell, there are no on-line copies 
of this portrait.  I have searched every possible thing I could think of to 
try and no luck.  If you do find one, please share!

IIRC, there is a larger black and white copy of the picture in "The 
Portraits of the Medici" books.

Cheers,
Danielle

At 09:16 PM 9/20/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi,
>I'm trying to find a copy of Laudonia de Medici, by A. Bronzino. I've looked
>at the web gallery of art, I've done a couple of different Google searches,
>she doesn't seem to be anywhere.
>I'll find time to go to the library, eventually, and should find it there,
>but in the meantime, would someone just happen to know where I could find an
>online copy? The only copy of it I have now is in 20,000 years of fashion,
>but it's small, and it's black and white.
>Thanks!
>Audrey

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 23:07:06 -0500
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OOOOOOO!  Can you send me a copy???  Yes, I can accept attachments.

cheers,
Danielle

At 11:52 AM 9/21/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Greetings-
>
>I have a small jpeg of her in color--can you take
>attachments?
>
>Jonna
>
>--- Audrey Bergeron-Morin 
>wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I'm trying to find a copy of Laudonia de Medici, by A.
> > Bronzino...



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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 07:41:11 +0100
Status: RO

>I don't want to patronise, but this is a real generalisation.

I imagine that is why Gail used the term MOST becauseshe recognises it as a
generlisation, certainly that is how I read it.

>you'll see it's a far more complex issue than
this and not so easy to achieve, even for healthy women!

Most healthy women I know have problems not concieving, rather than the
other way around.

>I personally have
an issue with (as do others) the term "infertile", too..having had fertility
problems for years.

Whatever it is called fertility problems in human appear to be on the
increase, in England this has led to some reports which have caused concern.

>I think it may be easier for some women today, to avoid sex as a whole.
However, I think it presupposes that a great many women today even
understand how their bodies work and how to tell whether they're "fertile"
or not!!

> Honestly, believe me, I thought I was really knowledgeable before
I got my hands on a certain "life-changing" book, which is an accepted
"fertility awareness bible"..boy, was I wrong!  Anyway, to the crux of
it..even if a woman in the past had a great knowledge of a) the
sympto-thermal method

I don't need to know anything about the sympto-thermo method, I just know
when I am fertile.
Most animals are aware subconciously of the need to mate at the correct
time, this need has been honed by evolution as those who ran off from males
at the correct time failed to pass on their genes :) Whilst I recognise many
people these days seem totally oblivious to their natural rhythems, I can
assure you it is perfectly possible and I think more likely to be something
one had a greater awarness of in the past. I can also tell the moment of
conception, much to most chaps puzzlement.


>and b) her own body, how easy was it for her to tell
her husband he couldn't have sex and to prevent it from happening? I think I
know the answer to *that* one!

Now that is a huge generlisation, it makes every man of the past to be a sex
salivating raping monster !! As there is plenty of evidence for men holding
off from sex and pregnancy from young brides (13th C England), contraception
condom type devices (many cultures and times), instructions on withdrawl,
sex without intercourse. Days and times when men must not touch (sexually)
women, it is clear that prevention of pregancy in many cultures was
recognised and practiced by both sexs and that often the male had a part in
that care. There are many instances where men of the past show great
tenderness and respect for their wives, so I feel this is massivly unfair.

>Anyway, I think one very big/significant issue is being overlooked here, in
the discussion of whether or not, women had a pregnancy every year.  It is
entirely possible that many women were pregnant every year, look at Queen
Anne...19 pregnancies!

Average spacing of childbirth over many cultures would appear to be
generally thus

2 years agrarian
4 years hunter gatherer

Those with titles cannot be considered the norm , as generally there are
increased pressures to give birth more frequently & greater oppertunities
for farming kids out to wet nurses etc. But the women I know with large
families say 10 plus living, do not seem to resent the fact at all or look
any less healthy than any other woman of their age, these are almost modern,
but most subject to some dietary lack now being quite old(ie lived in poor
times or the Wars & rationing)

>.  Anyway, the issue is this..many pregnancies did not
go to term, ending in miscarriage, many pregnancies ended in
stillbirth..these  go unrecorded on the vast majority family trees.

Yes of couse, but we are forgetting miscarriage is a natural thing and often
happens because it should. Animals spontaniously abort too.

 >Who knows, with  lower levels of maternal nutrition and higher
incidence of  disease or teratogens, miscarriage may have been more common
than today.

Or lower. There is always much banded about as to how women were badly fed
etc in past times. Again this is another HUGE generlisation. In one book I
saw it suggested all women in Anglo Saxon & medieval times lacked Iron to
the extent of being deficient. To take a single group example from a Norfolk
8-9th C grraveyard, there are no signs of anemia the women (and men) are
hugely muscled far more that todays people, their size is comparable to the
modern population, and the biggest pathalogical symtom ? Gum diesease.

The evidence in many cases does not support low nutrition. (Victorians are a
differant matter)

Child mortality is extremely hard to assess archaeologically. Maternal death
in or due to pregnancy ? Well it is a common blame factor, but I've yet to
see much convincing evidence to back it up. Generally there is a higher
recorded death in the fertile years amoung females (but often these are not
definate female IDs) and there are more females dyeing in old age than men.
I need to do a better study on these but there just seems to be more females
that men (ie is more died at 20-35) where did all the extra old ladies come
from ?

Anyway going back to costume, the lack of survival may simply be because the
bigger pregnancy garments were more able to be remodelled into fashionable
items when completed, in the eras when women worn more fitting styles. Most
early styles are pretty much the same for pregnancy & no pregnancy wear, I
didn't make any special kit (except a slitted undertunic for feeding) for
most periods (I wore 5th, 13th 15th, 17th and 19th, 20th C kit when
pregnant) The only one being the 19th. I hate maternity clothes and wore
adapted or bigger modern kit, chosing styles which accomodated my huge lumps
!

I have to confess a certain bafflement a maternity corsets as I can't
imagine getting my lump into one :) However they wore them from the start
and against medical advice, the baby generally gowing into completly the
wrong place (the writings of the time on this are horrible!) and often died
as a result. But these maternity corsets were only used in a tiny time frame
over all history & all other times & cultures should not be judged by
Victorian mess ups such as corseting, nutrition and so on.

Mel
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Subject: [h-cost] Mostly OT: I'm so excited, I'll be an 'aunt'/godmother!
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Dear All,

I just have to share, I am SO excited and happy that I keep bouncing about like
a rubber ball, although I should sit down quietly and finish that blasted part
draft for the PhD that my supervisor wants to see tomorrow morning, but...

My very very best friend phoned and told me that she is pregnant and the baby
is due in April!!! Now you have to know that Sushi and I have been best friends
since Uni, since about 1989, and she is 40 now, 7 years older than I am. It was
always clear that I won't have children and my sister neither, but all my life
long I so much wanted to become an aunt. We have been talking about this for
all these years, joking and laughing and saying I'll spoil her kiddie rotten
and make lil costumes and be the 'aunt from hell' that every kid loves but the
parents run away screaming, because kiddo wants to go back to auntie. *just
kidding* I almost lost hope! Her partner is my partner's best friend (we did a
country-swap, he lives in germany now, I live in England :-) and they aren't
married (yet), but lo and behold, they didn't plan it, but whoops, she got
pregnant and they are very happy about it (hehe, I wonder if they are as happy
as I am *grins*) and will marry before Christmas, back in Germany. Only the
civic wedding for now, the big church one will come next year, when she doesn't
look 'like a stranded walrus' anymore (quote my friend), and she asked me to
ber her witness!!! I am so happy I just have to tell everyone!
Costume content: I HAVE NOTHING TO WEAR FOR THE WEDDING!!!! AAHHRRGHHH!!!
First of all, I hope everything will be fine and no problem with the pregnancy,
and secondly, where do I find good patterns for baby clothes and what fabrics
should I use, I always joked that I'll make extraordinary looking baby clothes
for her kiddie.
I would LOVE to make a mini-costume, some of you I know have made one, Margo?
Was that you? And the Cynthia twin costumes were just a scream, but I know
NOTHING at all whatsoever about babies and sizes and anything, could someone
point me to somewhere? I want to take time off and actually be there next
April, and would love to give her a mini-costume as birth present (it has to be
something uni-sex as long as we don't know what it will be) and the baby
blanket I always promised her for the last 12 years: purple wool with gold
stars.

Nicole - praying everything will go well and who will be the proudest aunt on
this planet ;-))))

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 22 08:42:12 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <20020920233653.85132.qmail@web40312.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gates of Hell and Maternity wear
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 14:43:47 +0200
Status: RO

Hi,
Just a little topic, sorry for mending here,
The Costume Magazine from the Costume society in England had a Victorian
maternity dress. I think it was back in 1978.
This had pleats in the back like a sack gown, long sleaves and very simple
but pretty in shape.

Bjarne

----- Original Message -----
From: "marcus findlay-arthur" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 1:36 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Gates of Hell and Maternity wear


> Sorry folks but real life has been a bit hectic
> lately;
>
> 1.Gates of Hell - Robin,I haven't forgotten your
> research and my promises,Waterstones is undergoing
> major rennovations and their Costume section is
> dismantled.The 2nd hand shop that I saw those costume
> books in did not have the one that mentioned gates of
> hell.I am going to the V&A as well as the BL next week
> and will see if I can get any leads for you.
>
> 2.Maternity wear - of course I missed the entire post
> but Nancy Bradfield has three garments dated
> 1770-75,1825-28 and 1895 that are drawn from extent
> examples.(Costume in detail 1730-1930,Eric Dobby
> Publishing 1968 thru' 1997,ISBN 1 85882 038 3 )The
> last is interesting since in the under-bodice of the
> garment there are two sets of lacings beneath the
> sides of the breasts,probably in line with the edges
> of the ribs that allows for the expanding
> waistline.The over section of the bodice is slighlty
> pouched which would not show much during the
> pregnancy.Late Victorian women also wore maternity
> corsets.Their earlier counterparts circa the 50's
> hitched up the top hoop of the crinoline and shawls
> were extensively used to drape and conceal the
> pregnancy.(Remember that they were so prissy that
> 'nice' women didn't go out in public when in an
> interesting condition.)The garment circa 1770-75 is a
> maternity jacket.(Although in the Madness of King
> George a heavily pregnant courtier is in full Court
> Dress and standing at a soiree.)Prior to this there
> doesn't seem to be much in the way of special wear
> during pregnancies aside from relaxing the bodice or
> corset lacings.I seem to recall that there were
> varieties of nightgowns and robes for the laying-in of
> the very wealthy.But this was from a very very old
> dictionary of terms I once had and that too was a very
> long time ago.
>
> Marcus.
>
> __________________________________________________
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I would also like to see the color picture of this portrait.

Danielle, would you please post the info on the Portraits of the Medici book?

Thanks,

Nancy

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I would also like to see the color picture of this portrait.



Danielle, would you please post the info on the Portraits of the Medici book?



Thanks,



Nancy

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 22 10:44:10 2002
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From: "Betsy Marshall" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mostly OT: I'm so excited, I'll be an 'aunt'/godmother!
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:43:06 -0500
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you might want to look at the books for "Heirloom sewing"-
 christening gowns and all that?
congrats to you and your friends
Betsy

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of N Kipar
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 7:24 AM
To: H-Costume
Subject: [h-cost] Mostly OT: I'm so excited, I'll be an
'aunt'/godmother!


Dear All,

I just have to share, I am SO excited and happy that I keep bouncing about
like
a rubber ball, although I should sit down quietly and finish that blasted
part
draft for the PhD that my supervisor wants to see tomorrow morning, but...

My very very best friend phoned and told me that she is pregnant and the
baby
is due in April!!! Now you have to know that Sushi and I have been best
friends
since Uni, since about 1989, and she is 40 now, 7 years older than I am. It
was
always clear that I won't have children and my sister neither, but all my
life
long I so much wanted to become an aunt. We have been talking about this for
all these years, joking and laughing and saying I'll spoil her kiddie rotten
and make lil costumes and be the 'aunt from hell' that every kid loves but
the
parents run away screaming, because kiddo wants to go back to auntie. *just
kidding* I almost lost hope! Her partner is my partner's best friend (we did
a
country-swap, he lives in germany now, I live in England :-) and they aren't
married (yet), but lo and behold, they didn't plan it, but whoops, she got
pregnant and they are very happy about it (hehe, I wonder if they are as
happy
as I am *grins*) and will marry before Christmas, back in Germany. Only the
civic wedding for now, the big church one will come next year, when she
doesn't
look 'like a stranded walrus' anymore (quote my friend), and she asked me to
ber her witness!!! I am so happy I just have to tell everyone!
Costume content: I HAVE NOTHING TO WEAR FOR THE WEDDING!!!! AAHHRRGHHH!!!
First of all, I hope everything will be fine and no problem with the
pregnancy,
and secondly, where do I find good patterns for baby clothes and what
fabrics
should I use, I always joked that I'll make extraordinary looking baby
clothes
for her kiddie.
I would LOVE to make a mini-costume, some of you I know have made one,
Margo?
Was that you? And the Cynthia twin costumes were just a scream, but I know
NOTHING at all whatsoever about babies and sizes and anything, could someone
point me to somewhere? I want to take time off and actually be there next
April, and would love to give her a mini-costume as birth present (it has to
be
something uni-sex as long as we don't know what it will be) and the baby
blanket I always promised her for the last 12 years: purple wool with gold
stars.

Nicole - praying everything will go well and who will be the proudest aunt
on
this planet ;-))))

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Kevin + Mara Riley 
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Subject: [h-cost] Pregnancy in period
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:53:19 -0400
Status: RO

Well, I suppose it all depends.

My grandfather was the youngest of nine children, all born about three
years apart.  If you figure his mother probably breast-fed for two years,
then that would have spaced her kids three years apart naturally, until
such time as she hit menopause.  Same with my husband's family -- he's the
fifth of eight kids.

Many other families in my family tree, however, seem to have had about
three or four children per family; maybe they had fertility problems, maybe
that was due to travel or other constraints, maybe they just abstained.  No
way to tell.

I suspect that some women (like my great-grandmother) _were_ either
constantly pregnant or breast-feeding, others weren't, and as usual, a
sweeping statement either way is just too black and white to capture the
subtleties of the truth.

-- Mara

At 05:35 PM 9/20/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>So, my question is:  Are there any real, hard statistics to uphold the idea
>that women were constantly pregnant, or could this be one of those
>frequently repeated myths about the middle ages on the order of the lord's
>right to the bride's first night?
>
>Regina Romsey

Kevin + Mara Riley

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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:05:21 -0500
Status: RO

If this is Fashion Fabrics, I think I have a piece.  Its blouse weight I
would say.  A little light for dress unless you line it.  Could also work
for a veil or shawl.

Genie

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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Kevin + Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: child spacing (long)
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 11:28:21 -0400
Status: RO

At 04:38 PM 9/21/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Some people (men and women both) are not very fertile. Even today, fertility
>specialists don't know what to do about most kinds of male infertility.
>There have always been people who are otherwise healthy and who, for no
>known reason, have only one or two children. The fact that a woman in the
>past had few children doesn't NECESSARILY mean that she did anything to keep
>it that way.

And there are reasons like travel, illness, etc.  

A friend of mine has a genetic abnormality that prevents her from absorbing
folic acid properly... and her husband has a major vein of some kind
running through the areas vital to reproduction, which heats things up too
much.  So they haven't succeeded in having kids yet, despite wanting them.
And another friend of mine has, say, one or two cycles a year... 

(snip)
>Which still doesn't explain the relative scarcity of maternity clothes.
>Maybe, like today's maternity clothes, they got passed around until they
>fell apart? 
>
>Gail Finke

Well, the point I was trying to make eariler was that women really don't
show _that_ much in the early part of pregnancy, and with full skirts it
might be possible to wear one's normal clothing through much of the
pregnancy.  It's only in the last few months that a change would most
likely have been necessary - and even then, you can find loose wrappers,
sack-backed jackets (for 18th c.), open robes, etc. that would accomodate a
changing figure but also could be worn afterward. The folk song 'Love, O
Foolish Love' has a line in it where the singer says that once she wore her
apron low; now she ties it high, and her lover won't come near her.  The
implication is that the higher apron is due to her pregnancy.  Maybe the
apron is covering an unlaced or unfastened lower part of her dress, too.

I think our modern fashions that fit tightly below the waist make maternity
clothes much more necessary.  The full skirts of earlier periods would
probably have made a completely separate wardrobe unnecessary, for the most
part.  There's a CDV in Juanita Leisch's book on Civil War fashion that
shows a woman who is probably pregnant; her full skirt appears to be
hanging over a very full belly.  The bodice doesn't appear to be altered at
all, but since that was a relatively high-waisted period, the gown probably
would work just fine until possibly the last month or two of her pregnancy.

Cheers,
Mara
Kevin + Mara Riley

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From: Jonna Hayden 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help locating a portrait
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:48:38 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

I'm happy to share the one I have with any who ask--just
email me and I send it on  It's not huge, but it is color!

Jonna

--- Danielle Nunn-Weinberg  wrote:
> Ah, one of my favorites.  As far as I can tell, there are
> no on-line copies 
> of this portrait.  I have searched every possible thing I
> could think of to 
> try and no luck.  If you do find one, please share!
> 
> IIRC, there is a larger black and white copy of the
> picture in "The 
> Portraits of the Medici" books.
> 
> Cheers,
> Danielle
> 
> At 09:16 PM 9/20/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hi,
> >I'm trying to find a copy of Laudonia de Medici, by A.
> Bronzino. I've looked
> >at the web gallery of art, I've done a couple of
> different Google searches,
> >she doesn't seem to be anywhere.
> >I'll find time to go to the library, eventually, and
> should find it there,
> >but in the meantime, would someone just happen to know
> where I could find an
> >online copy? The only copy of it I have now is in 20,000
> years of fashion,
> >but it's small, and it's black and white.
> >Thanks!
> >Audrey
> 
> _______________________________________________
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Subject: [h-cost] Various types of 1875 evening gowns
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 13:01:38 -0400
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Hi Melanie

I've received many responses to my original post about 1875 gowns & I'm
still sorting through all of the wonderful information in them.  Your one
question did make me stop & think - I'm not sure what the difference for
each type of evening gown (dinner, opera or ball) would be - could you tell
me?

I'm planning to wear the gown I'm going to make to a costume ball that will
be held at a friend's house ( which just happens to be an 1870's Italianate
Villa complete with Ballroom!) From what I've heard it will be a very
elegant evening.  PLUS I live in an 1875 Second Empire house in a thoroughly
Victorian town in Ontario, Canada AND I love costume & figure that whatever
I make should be as authentic as possible (up until now I've been more
involved in 18th century- which is why I'm not so up on Victorian).

At any rate, I figured that it would be great to have something to wear that
really reflects the period as closely as possible since I figure I will have
future use for it.

Thanks again

Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Melanie Wilson
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 2:24 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1875 evening gown


>I'm in the beginning stages of planning an 1873-5 (ish) evening gown.

There is a reasonable change over that time, I only really do England so I'm
not sure it applies to the US too, but for what it is worth...

1873 are fuller in the front with apron style fronts and lots of puffs
towards the back, they are generally more merrange like, as you progress
through those years the front has less emphasis and you more from being
towards the centre of a circle to the front of an elipse. The decoration
move towards the back, hips start of be more defined, bodices start to get
longer & you get more princess line gowns. But it is fairly gradual

 >whether the gowns were several separate pieces or
not, it seems obvious in daywear but not so with the evening styles.  I know
that they are made up of a bodice/underskirt/overskirt but are they all
attached to each other?

Earlier ones are more inclined to be seperate

>How is the bodice closed, I'm assuming it is laced up the back.

Various ways & generally very complex ones at that. On a practical level you
might not want to go as complicated as the real thing if you ever anticipate
have to get out of it alone !

I have evening wear that is front opening, back buttons, back clips and side
opening. By evening gown do you mean dinner wear, opera wear, ball gown as
the style would differ somewhat.

>I've also been researching the underclothes & have found a list which
includes chemise, camisole & vest.  Aren't these 3 things roughly the same
at this point?

Most vests I have are knitted warm things I'd not wear in the evening :)

Underwear definatly go for the genuine split drawers !

I like combinations but I don't have any problem with excess bulk from
seperates, but then I'm bulky all round ;)

Don't start making your gown until you have you foundation sorted , ie
bustle & corset as it alters you body shape loads !

Hope this helps

Oh there are some pics of our recreations on www.castlefalkenstein.co.uk

Mel


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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 13:16:48 -0400
Status: RO



Nicole:

Congratulations! If someone had been that happy for me (outside my family, I
mean) I would have been ecstatic!

I never sewed for my children when they were babies, I was so busy that they
grew too fast. I don't know if pattern sizes are like ready-to-wear sizes,
but ready-to-wear baby sizes are a joke, at least in the USA. Buy LOTS
bigger than they say.

I did sew a christening gown once, it was the relatively plain one still
sold by Vogue (no tucks or lace insertion or anything). It looks great --
all the cousins in the family have used it -- but it was the hardest thing I
ever made. The instructions were terrible.

Gail Finke

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From: "Helen  Partner" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: child spacing - please read
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:46:40 +0100
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I'm very saddened to see a distinct lack of sensitivity by certain members
on this discussion forum...I'm not going to prolong this argument..other
than to express my incredulity.

I had written this..
 >you'll see it's a far more complex issue than> this and not so easy to
achieve, even for healthy women!

Melanie wrote this in reply:
Most healthy women I know have problems not concieving, rather than the
> other way around.

I wrote this:
I personally have> an issue with (as do others) the term "infertile",
too..having had fertility
> problems for years.

Melanie wrote this:
I don't need to know anything about the sympto-thermo method, I just know
> when I am fertile...I can also tell the moment of> conception, much to
most chaps puzzlement.

  I wrote this:
Anyway, the issue is this..many pregnancies did not> go to term, ending in
miscarriage, many pregnancies ended in> stillbirth..these  go unrecorded on
the vast majority family trees.

Melanie wrote this:
Yes of couse, but we are forgetting miscarriage is a natural thing and often
> happens because it should. Animals spontaniously abort too.

I now write this, to the above..miscarriage is not always a natural
thing..it doesn't always happen because of foetal abnormality, whether
chromosomal or genetic.  The term spontaneous abortion whilst being accurate
for animals, is frankly offensive when applied to women and the Royal
College of Gynaes and Obs + College of Midwives stated that it should not be
used.  Those who've miscarried hate being told "it's natures' way..blah blah
blah"  Could say more..can't be bothered!

Anyway, I don't want to find myself in the position of being accused of
flaming, neither do I want to maintain this off-topic discussion.  I could
have replied off-line, but I wanted my feelings to be known..please, please,
try to treat certain matters with a degree of sensitivity.  This has upset
my entire family's Sunday!  Since I joined H-Costume, I've become more and
more wary of posting...some people really go for the jugular, some are very
heavy handed with their opinions and (academic) argument... it's annoying,
frustrating and upsetting/distressing. One gets to the point where one
feels.."but I didn't say that at all!" or.."I could counter this with my
evidence, but why bother?"  It's a shame..and I *know* I'm not the only one
who feels like this! However, the vast majority are very, very lovely
people.  That aside, I'm going to un-subscribe for a while cos it's causing
too much stress, believe it or not!

Regards

Helen



----- Original Message -----
From: "Melanie Wilson" 
To: 
Sent: 22 September 2002 07:41
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: child spacing (long)


> >I don't want to patronise, but this is a real generalisation.
>
> I imagine that is why Gail used the term MOST becauseshe recognises it as
a
> generlisation, certainly that is how I read it.
>
>>
> >
> >>
> Whatever it is called fertility problems in human appear to be on the
> increase, in England this has led to some reports which have caused
concern.
>
> >I think it may be easier for some women today, to avoid sex as a whole.
> However, I think it presupposes that a great many women today even
> understand how their bodies work and how to tell whether they're "fertile"
> or not!!
>
> > Honestly, believe me, I thought I was really knowledgeable before
> I got my hands on a certain "life-changing" book, which is an accepted
> "fertility awareness bible"..boy, was I wrong!  Anyway, to the crux of
> it..even if a woman in the past had a great knowledge of a) the
> sympto-thermal method
>
> I don't need to know anything about the sympto-thermo method, I just know
> when I am fertile.
> Most animals are aware subconciously of the need to mate at the correct
> time, this need has been honed by evolution as those who ran off from
males
> at the correct time failed to pass on their genes :) Whilst I recognise
many
> people these days seem totally oblivious to their natural rhythems, I can
> assure you it is perfectly possible and I think more likely to be
something
> one had a greater awarness of in the past. I can also tell the moment of
> conception, much to most chaps puzzlement.
>
>
> >and b) her own body, how easy was it for her to tell
> her husband he couldn't have sex and to prevent it from happening? I think
I
> know the answer to *that* one!
>
> Now that is a huge generlisation, it makes every man of the past to be a
sex
> salivating raping monster !! As there is plenty of evidence for men
holding
> off from sex and pregnancy from young brides (13th C England),
contraception
> condom type devices (many cultures and times), instructions on withdrawl,
> sex without intercourse. Days and times when men must not touch (sexually)
> women, it is clear that prevention of pregancy in many cultures was
> recognised and practiced by both sexs and that often the male had a part
in
> that care. There are many instances where men of the past show great
> tenderness and respect for their wives, so I feel this is massivly unfair.
>
> >Anyway, I think one very big/significant issue is being overlooked here,
in
> the discussion of whether or not, women had a pregnancy every year.  It is
> entirely possible that many women were pregnant every year, look at Queen
> Anne...19 pregnancies!
>
> Average spacing of childbirth over many cultures would appear to be
> generally thus
>
> 2 years agrarian
> 4 years hunter gatherer
>
> Those with titles cannot be considered the norm , as generally there are
> increased pressures to give birth more frequently & greater oppertunities
> for farming kids out to wet nurses etc. But the women I know with large
> families say 10 plus living, do not seem to resent the fact at all or look
> any less healthy than any other woman of their age, these are almost
modern,
> but most subject to some dietary lack now being quite old(ie lived in poor
> times or the Wars & rationing)
>
> >.  Anyway, the issue is this..many pregnancies did not
> go to term, ending in miscarriage, many pregnancies ended in
> stillbirth..these  go unrecorded on the vast majority family trees.
>
> Yes of couse, but we are forgetting miscarriage is a natural thing and
often
> happens because it should. Animals spontaniously abort too.
>
>  >Who knows, with  lower levels of maternal nutrition and higher
> incidence of  disease or teratogens, miscarriage may have been more common
> than today.
>
> Or lower. There is always much banded about as to how women were badly fed
> etc in past times. Again this is another HUGE generlisation. In one book I
> saw it suggested all women in Anglo Saxon & medieval times lacked Iron to
> the extent of being deficient. To take a single group example from a
Norfolk
> 8-9th C grraveyard, there are no signs of anemia the women (and men) are
> hugely muscled far more that todays people, their size is comparable to
the
> modern population, and the biggest pathalogical symtom ? Gum diesease.
>
> The evidence in many cases does not support low nutrition. (Victorians are
a
> differant matter)
>
> Child mortality is extremely hard to assess archaeologically. Maternal
death
> in or due to pregnancy ? Well it is a common blame factor, but I've yet to
> see much convincing evidence to back it up. Generally there is a higher
> recorded death in the fertile years amoung females (but often these are
not
> definate female IDs) and there are more females dyeing in old age than
men.
> I need to do a better study on these but there just seems to be more
females
> that men (ie is more died at 20-35) where did all the extra old ladies
come
> from ?
>
> Anyway going back to costume, the lack of survival may simply be because
the
> bigger pregnancy garments were more able to be remodelled into fashionable
> items when completed, in the eras when women worn more fitting styles.
Most
> early styles are pretty much the same for pregnancy & no pregnancy wear, I
> didn't make any special kit (except a slitted undertunic for feeding) for
> most periods (I wore 5th, 13th 15th, 17th and 19th, 20th C kit when
> pregnant) The only one being the 19th. I hate maternity clothes and wore
> adapted or bigger modern kit, chosing styles which accomodated my huge
lumps
> !
>
> I have to confess a certain bafflement a maternity corsets as I can't
> imagine getting my lump into one :) However they wore them from the start
> and against medical advice, the baby generally gowing into completly the
> wrong place (the writings of the time on this are horrible!) and often
died
> as a result. But these maternity corsets were only used in a tiny time
frame
> over all history & all other times & cultures should not be judged by
> Victorian mess ups such as corseting, nutrition and so on.
>
> Mel
> This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
> it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
> the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
> this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
> Company, unless specifically stated.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



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In a message dated 9/22/2002 7:25:59 AM Central Daylight Time, 
h-costume-request@indra.com writes:


> >you'll see it's a far more complex issue than
> this and not so easy to achieve, even for healthy women!
> 
> Most healthy women I know have problems not concieving, rather than the
> other way around.

The top quote is right.  It can be hard for healthy women to concieve.  I am 
on an infertility list, I have SI or secandary infertility.  There are lots 
of us on there, most actually, that are very healthy and really the only 
thing "unhealthy" about us is that we can't concieve.  
My Mom comes from a family of 10 and my Dad 5.  They both were farm families. 
 I think they all liked kids but it was seen as a plus to have the extra 
built in farm hands.  In our family tree there are lots of families with lots 
of kids.  I know of one family, my greatgrandpa had lots of kids.  Part of 
his reason was he had a few wifes,  when his wife died he always remarried.  
There also was one divorce I believe.  Anyway each wife seemed to be a little 
bit younger and of course her first marriage.  The wife would want her own 
kids even though they would have his kids from the other marriages.  I 
believe he was married 4 times and all but one wife couldn't have kids.  I 
know they tried but it never happened.  My point is that sometimes there 
could be mulitply wives involved.  I am not talking about Mormanism but when 
a spouse dies and he remarries. 
By the way I love coming from a big family and like lots of kids myself.
Kelly
m311@aol.com

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In a message dated 9/22/2002 7:25:59 AM Central Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes:






>you'll see it's a far more complex issue than

this and not so easy to achieve, even for healthy women!



Most healthy women I know have problems not concieving, rather than the

other way around.




The top quote is right.  It can be hard for healthy women to concieve.  I am on an infertility list, I have SI or secandary infertility.  There are lots of us on there, most actually, that are very healthy and really the only thing "unhealthy" about us is that we can't concieve.  

My Mom comes from a family of 10 and my Dad 5.  They both were farm families.  I think they all liked kids but it was seen as a plus to have the extra built in farm hands.  In our family tree there are lots of families with lots of kids.  I know of one family, my greatgrandpa had lots of kids.  Part of his reason was he had a few wifes,  when his wife died he always remarried.  There also was one divorce I believe.  Anyway each wife seemed to be a little bit younger and of course her first marriage.  The wife would want her own kids even though they would have his kids from the other marriages.  I believe he was married 4 times and all but one wife couldn't have kids.  I know they tried but it never happened.  My point is that sometimes there could be mulitply wives involved.  I am not talking about Mormanism but when a spouse dies and he remarries. 

By the way I love coming from a big family and like lots of kids myself.

Kelly

m311@aol.com

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> > >you'll see it's a far more complex issue than
> > this and not so easy to achieve, even for healthy women!
> > 
> > Most healthy women I know have problems not concieving, rather than
> > the other way around.
> 
> The top quote is right.  It can be hard for healthy women to concieve.

Actually, they're *both* right. Those who don't want to get pregnant 
or who shouldn't (for whatever reason) usually do, and those who most 
want to get pregnant usually don't.

>  I am on an infertility list, I have SI or secandary infertility. 

I'm infertile too, but when I was on the fertility drugs any female 
who stayed at my house (whether they wanted to or not, and whether 
they had been told in the past they were infertile or not) got 
pregnant immediately. They all said that it was my pheromones brought 
on by the Pergonal infertililty hormone treatment that did it. 

The 9 years since we decided that we'd accept being childless, 
however, have been productive. I got to spend a month in London 
studying costuming as my "maternity leave equivalent" (which is what 
we all called it.) I would never have been able to do that if I had 
been able to have that desperately wanted baby.

As a result, I got to meet Teddy, I got to go to Janet Arnold's 
memorial, I got to get lots of wonderful photographs (for research 
and teaching) and I've gotten to do a lot more sewing!

Kat Russell


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This topic has saddened me deeply. I very rarely post to this list because 
I'm scared of being flamed, but I felt I had to have my say. Infertility and 
miscarriage are painful. It's not purely down to health. Babies die or are 
miscarried and it's nothing to do with the woman's health. I can't remember 
who was bragging about knowing they had concieved or how easy it is but 
those comments had me in tears. I know lots of women who are desperately 
trying to concieve. It's taken me a good few years to come to terms with my 
own fertility problems, to hear terms like 'spontaneous abortion' cuts like 
a knife,sorry if this sounds dramatic, but who knows how many people on this 
list have similar problems and have been hurt like Helen has been.
Anyway this is supposed to be a costume discussion list.
regards
Joy



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Subject: [h-cost] Poor reflection on the list:was fertility
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I choose not to comment on the fertility issue, but agree with Joy that
we should return to the costume topic.  

** I very rarely post to this list because I'm scared of being flamed, 

  

I have personally experienced it myself and though I tend to be pretty
thick skinned and won't let it stop me from posting, I think it is a
shame that others don't contribute because they feel this way.

I think this is very sorry thing to hear and we all should be aware of
it.

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Various types of 1875 evening gowns
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>I'm not sure what the difference for
>each type of evening gown (dinner, opera or ball) would be - could you tell
>me?

Ball gowns don't usually have sleeves (dancing is hot work), where dinner 
dresses, opera dresses, evening dresses, etc. usually do.  But they are all 
likely to have the same 'dressy' (=low) neckline.


Kayta

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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 21:29:56 +0200
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Hello.
I have finally made a new site at my website with the new project i am going
to do. I have made it with my new puter and Frontpage express. Here it is:
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/robealafrancaise1776.htm
You cant go to the indexpage and link you to it, because it is tricking me.
I have changed the link, but i cant make it work somehow. Hope i will change
that tomorrow. Anyway  you will be able to se my new project if you use the
above link.
Lovely to be back in costume making.

Bjarne


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From: Lee Thompson-Herbert 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: child spacing - cultural differences
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>I now write this, to the above..miscarriage is not always a natural
>thing..it doesn't always happen because of foetal abnormality, whether
>chromosomal or genetic.  The term spontaneous abortion whilst being accurate
>for animals, is frankly offensive when applied to women and the Royal
>College of Gynaes and Obs + College of Midwives stated that it should not be
>used.  Those who've miscarried hate being told "it's natures' way..blah blah
>blah"  Could say more..can't be bothered!

This seems to be a cultural thing.  "Spontaenous abortion" _is_ the correct
medical term in use here in the US.  Regardless of whether the cause was
chromosomal abnormality or some problem like antiphospholipid syndrome.
Having had _two_ confirmed ALPS caused miscarriages, I still don't find 
the term "spontaneous abortion" offensive.  And while ER staff may give
you figures of a "natural" miscarriage rate of about 25%, population 
geneticists think the real figure is closer to 50%, once you factor in 
very early miscarriages (before the woman has missed a period).  I'm sorry
if the subject is personally painful, but the discussion so far has followed
pretty closely what's considered current medical knowledge.  


Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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Subject: [h-cost] Christening bonnet pattern?
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 21:53:32 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

The excited aunt-to-be speaking again.. :-)

Dos anyone know of a really fancy and nice christening bonnet pattern? Sushi
(my friend) has her mum's christening gown that she wore as well, so of course
that's an heirloom and the wee one will hopefully wear that one, but she
doesn't have a bonnet and would be very happy if I made one. Now... me being my
Barqoue self can't just make a simple linen bonnet in a few straight seams, now
can I?
Does anyone know of a historical-type pattern with a lovely bonnet with some
nice stitching fancies on it? Something Victorian perhaps?
I wouldn't know where to start looking!  

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:03:20 +0100 (BST)
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 --- Gail & Scott Finke  wrote: > 

> Congratulations! If someone had been that happy for me (outside my family, I
> mean) I would have been ecstatic!

Ahhh, but I am kind of family as well I guess, well, MAD family, but nevermind.
Sushi has only an old aunt & uncle and her parents who are in their 80s. When
those are gone she has no family whatsoever anymore, only her husband's. So
I'll better make sure I'll be mad aunt and kind-of-real aunt as well. I'll be
officially godmother too, but only if the German catholic church allows me to
be godmother no 2 without actually having a Christian denomination. It is
really weird in germany, if you are not a member of a Church and pay your taxes
to the church you are not allowed to do or become certain things. It's simple
you don't pay, you're out. Bah!

> I never sewed for my children when they were babies, I was so busy that they
> grew too fast.

This is why one needs a mad aunt! I already said that when kiddie is a toddler
I'll HAVE to make a musketeer and a pirate outfit. Oh, and don't forget the
wooden sword and painted shield and knitted chainmail. *G* Girl or boy, it
doesn't matter. With a mother and father like them the kiddie should turn out
to be quite creative with an overflowing imagination. (I hope)

 I don't know if pattern sizes are like ready-to-wear sizes,
> but ready-to-wear baby sizes are a joke, at least in the USA. Buy LOTS
> bigger than they say.

Thanks, yes I heard that too, didn't know though that this was also true for
patterns.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christening bonnet pattern 
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In a message dated 9/22/2002 1:54:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:


> Barqoue self can't just make a simple linen bonnet in a few straight seams, 
> now
> can I?
> Does anyone know of a historical-type pattern with a lovely bonnet with 
> some
> nice stitching fancies on it? Something Victorian perhaps?
> I wouldn't know where to start looking!  
> 
> Nicole
> 

Nicole, Many years ago I made a christening gown and bonnet for my 
nephew/godson.   For the bonnet, I chose a heavily embroidered eyelet fabric 
with scallops on one edge.  The scallop edge I used for the front of the cap 
which frames baby's face.  It's simple but so charming.

Darla

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In a message dated 9/22/2002 1:54:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:






Barqoue self can't just make a simple linen bonnet in a few straight seams, now

can I?

Does anyone know of a historical-type pattern with a lovely bonnet with some

nice stitching fancies on it? Something Victorian perhaps?

I wouldn't know where to start looking!  



Nicole






Nicole, Many years ago I made a christening gown and bonnet for my nephew/godson.   For the bonnet, I chose a heavily embroidered eyelet fabric with scallops on one edge.  The scallop edge I used for the front of the cap which frames baby's face.  It's simple but so charming.



Darla

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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 23:16:29 +0200
Status: RO

Hello Auntie Nicole :-)

I have in one of my lace books the most adorable baby bonnet. I shall try to
look for it, and scan you a picture.

Bjarne




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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christening bonnet pattern?
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 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > 
Hello Auntie Nicole :-)

*grins*

> I have in one of my lace books the most adorable baby bonnet. I shall try to
> look for it, and scan you a picture.

Thanks so much! I have some very wonderful laces here at home, from my ever
growing ebay-collection :-) Looking forward to the picture!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: child spacing - please read
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:43:01 +0100
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>I'm very saddened to see a distinct lack of sensitivity by certain members
on this discussion forum

I am genuinly sorry if you feel upset by anything that has been said.

But I would like to point out that not everyone feels upset by the use of
such terms. I too have had a miscarriage (as far as I know only one ) and
yes it is upsetting, of course. I've also had various other frightening
events related to childbirth. But being so afraid of upsetting somebody that
we cannot put a point of view across is wrong, just as deliberatly hurting
somebody would be. There was no intent to hurt what-so-ever and whilst I am
very sorry that it has touched an issue that is sensitive to you, I'm afraid
I am not capable of second guessing ever possibility that might upset
somebody on a list as large as this.

I hope time helps your hurt to heal.

Mel
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 22 17:49:18 2002
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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Various types of 1875 evening gowns
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:48:20 +0100
Status: RO

>I'm planning to wear the gown I'm going to make to a costume ball that will
be held at a friend's house

A ball gown then :)

very short sleeves, often off the shoulder.

If you are really going to be dancing make sure your costume is very strong,
it can be subject to a lot of abuse Make sure you have some method of
getting it off the floor (train wise) esp if the group are not used to long
frocks or you may well find yourself jerked backwards by somebody treading
on your skirt :) Or it totally removed if it isn't stout ! Decoration of
fresh flowers was popular, and in Paris there was some bright hair streaks I
once read !

There is a wonderful cartoon in one of the Punches of a before & after the
ball, the gowns and hair dos are totally wreaked in the after ! Not so far
from the truth sometimes as I've lost my hair piece several times & nearly
my skirt a few !!

Mel

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 22 18:02:22 2002
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From: "Megan M." 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] The never-ending pregnancy discussion
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:10:03 -0400
Status: RO

OK folks.  We have heard many comments on all sides of the issue- can we
PLEASE get back to costuming (even if it is maternity clothes) and leave the
rest of the childbearing or not childbearing out of the list?  Feelings are
getting hurt, even though it is not intentional, and I think this discussion
has run its course.
Off soapbox now,
-Megan


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 22 19:19:18 2002
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From: Cascio Michael 
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Subject: [h-cost] Medici portrait/apologies to Helen
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:17:15 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Hello all,
    If someone could put the Medici portrait up
on-line somewhere I'd like to see it to but we've had
a real virus problem lately so I hate to open anything
with an attachment.  It appears that the attachments
are picking up the virus at my server and they promise
they are working on it.
   If Helen is still on I'd like to apologize as I
think I might have started the pregnancies thread. 
And no I don't feel picked on by whoever said they
weren't picking on me.  I've done alot of genealogy
for my family and as much medical genealogy as humanly
possible as my family has a statictically abnormal
occurence of colon cancer and twins  (25 sets of twins
since my great-grandmother and I'm the oldest of my
generation at 40).  Having a large family or not
having any children when you want them can both be
problematic so once again apologies to Helen.
                       Cassandra

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 22 19:28:22 2002
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Hello!

I am new to this list and have a brief but intense background in medieval 
living history in Australia and have recently returned to the US where I am 
in the RenFair scene with some misgivings.

My interest is in costuming, but I have developed a love of history as a 
result of investigating those questions that arise in trying to determine who 
wore what, when, how and why.  So I have greatly appreciated the discussions 
that have taken place as I think they add depth to my hobby and my 
understanding of context in which the people who's clothing I am re-creating 
might have lived.

As for busks, yes, I have been lurking around for a while!  Last Thurdsay I 
attended a lecture by a woman (Katherine??) who has worked for Sutter's Fort 
here in Sacramento (Gold Rush period) in costume for about 6 years.  She wore 
a corset she made herself and she chose hickory for the wood.

She explained that she had three busks that she used for her corset.  She 
would wear her newest one when she knew she would not be doing much that day 
as it would hold her very straight and prevent a significant amount of 
movement.

On days where she wanted to have a nice sillouette but expected moderate 
activity she would wear a busk that she had had for awhile.

If strenuous activity, ie. laundry, cooking, etc was expected, and she didn't 
have to look as nice, she would wear her oldest busk as it was very cureved 
to her figure and allowed the most movement.

So her answer was, the busk shapes to one's figure through use.

Nice to meet you all,

Cheers!

Lisa

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Hello!



I am new to this list and have a brief but intense background in medieval living history in Australia and have recently returned to the US where I am in the RenFair scene with some misgivings.



My interest is in costuming, but I have developed a love of history as a result of investigating those questions that arise in trying to determine who wore what, when, how and why.  So I have greatly appreciated the discussions that have taken place as I think they add depth to my hobby and my understanding of context in which the people who's clothing I am re-creating might have lived.



As for busks, yes, I have been lurking around for a while!  Last Thurdsay I attended a lecture by a woman (Katherine??) who has worked for Sutter's Fort here in Sacramento (Gold Rush period) in costume for about 6 years.  She wore a corset she made herself and she chose hickory for the wood.



She explained that she had three busks that she used for her corset.  She would wear her newest one when she knew she would not be doing much that day as it would hold her very straight and prevent a significant amount of movement.



On days where she wanted to have a nice sillouette but expected moderate activity she would wear a busk that she had had for awhile.



If strenuous activity, ie. laundry, cooking, etc was expected, and she didn't have to look as nice, she would wear her oldest busk as it was very cureved to her figure and allowed the most movement.



So her answer was, the busk shapes to one's figure through use.



Nice to meet you all,



Cheers!



Lisa


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 22 21:33:42 2002
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From: "Saragrace knauf" 
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 17:51:53 -0700
Status: RO

 http://www.saragrace.net/images/laudomia.jpg


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 22 21:33:43 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Laudonia de Medici portrait
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I wasn't able to find any *portraits* of Laudonia, but I did find someone 
who probably had better access to the portrait who did a dress based on the 
portrait.  I don't know if this is of any help, but it's still nifty to see. 
:)

-Laura


Translated version:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.ladamedatours.com/frames/page_histo_re1.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLaudonia%2Bbronzino%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8


Nontranslated version:
http://www.ladamedatours.com/frames/page_histo_re1.html

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 22 21:46:26 2002
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 19:50:25 -0600
Status: RO

Ooooh, thanks, darlin'.  This is not one I'd ever seen before, so I was
completely clueless as to just what folks were referring to!
Am I completely off-base, or is she wearing a high-necked doublet, with
some sort of tabs at the waist? and a separate skirt that opens down the
front? Are her lower sleeves slashed in some spiral fashion? Are those
clusters of pearls, or something else??
Dang, but it's just *droolsome.*  Something like this could get me back
into late-period garb!
--Sue, who unfortunately has *just* the right black velvet and pearls
for something like this......;-)

Saragrace knauf wrote:
> 
>  http://www.saragrace.net/images/laudomia.jpg
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From: "michaela" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Various types of 1875 evening gowns
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:53:11 +1200
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> I've received many responses to my original post about 1875 gowns & I'm
> still sorting through all of the wonderful information in them.  Your one
> question did make me stop & think - I'm not sure what the difference for
> each type of evening gown (dinner, opera or ball) would be - could you
tell
> me?

A ball gown from the era would have very short sleeves (and I've seen a
number of very small soft pouffs, very small and very soft rather than saw
the little balloons you might see on a 'modern' dress.

The neckline was very wide, shoulder to shoulder and not very deep, and the
back was much the same.

A dinner or opera dress would be likely to have sleeves to the elbow and
with a more square neckline.
The best artist I can think of to show you the styles in any detail is
Tissot. While in his time the women he painted were not aristocrcy and
concidered rather vulgar (new money doncherknow) and were perhaps trying too
hard to be fashionable. They are indeed wondrfully dressed in pleats and
stripes and pastels.

http://www.abcgallery.com/T/tissot/tissot.html
http://btr0xw.rz.uni-bayreuth.de/cjackson/tissot/

http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/tissot_james.html for more links.

The Rivals and Too Early show the difference between a ball gown (Too Early)
and a reception gown (the Rivals), which colours and trims aside is very
close to dinner wear. And of course head wear would have been very
different.

It's odd, but in Hush the women all seem to be wearing Ball dresses rather
than concert dress. Perhaps because it was one of those gatherings where
dancing was part of the whole evening's entertainment.

Of course the rules were not so inflexible.. and you'll see different sleeve
treatments on different women at different times during the era.

Actually, there is a dress in the Janet Arnold book (patterns of Fashion
II). A skirt with three bodices (or rather two and a false front) The short
sleeved is for ball wear, the sleeved is for evening and then the false
front can be worn for occasions where one doesn't expose skin below the
neck;) This is copied in another pattern book, somewhat simplified called
Evolution in Fashion. The patterns aren't strictly historically correct, but
there are some nice garments in there.

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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May I forward this to the Italian Persona list?  I think they will enjoy...

Apollonia

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saragrace knauf" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:51 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Link to Medici portrait


> http://www.saragrace.net/images/laudomia.jpg
> 
> 
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Hi, All. Remember that being a Godmother (at least historically, I don't know about
the German Catholic Church) meant that you were taking responsibility for raising
the child should anything happen to the parents (God forbid!). With the rest of her
living relatives being so old, I wonder if you ever considered this part? I don't
know if anyone would hold you to it, but....   Just a thought, Mike T.



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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christening bonnet pattern?
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>Dos anyone know of a really fancy and nice christening bonnet pattern? Sushi
>(my friend) has her mum's christening gown that she wore as well, so of course
>that's an heirloom and the wee one will hopefully wear that one, but she
>doesn't have a bonnet and would be very happy if I made one. Now... me 
>being my
>Barqoue self can't just make a simple linen bonnet in a few straight 
>seams, now
>can I?
>Does anyone know of a historical-type pattern with a lovely bonnet with some
>nice stitching fancies on it? Something Victorian perhaps?
>I wouldn't know where to start looking!

If you can crochet from a picture, try e-bay.  They often have crochet baby 
bonnets, with good enough pictures to copy.  Search under 'baby' and you 
should be able to find something.


Kayta

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Hi, All. Anne Buck's book "Clothes and the Child, a Handbook of Children's Dress in
England 1500-1900" has a cap (bonnet) pattern dated 1838 on page 51, a frock or
nightgown, same date on page 46, and tons of other ideas. The book is by Holmes and
Meier in NYC, dated 1996 and the ISBN is 0-8419-1371-4. Hope this helps, Mike T.

> Dos anyone know of a really fancy and nice christening bonnet pattern? Sushi
> (my friend) has her mum's christening gown that she wore as well, so of course
> that's an heirloom and the wee one will hopefully wear that one, but she
> doesn't have a bonnet and would be very happy if I made one.

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Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan shift again
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Me again,
   Up late because it's hard to sleep when you work
the graveyard shift.
   Fiddling with my Elizabethan shift and thanks for
all the info off the list so far.  Would earlier than
Elizabethan garments have been cut along the same
lines as a shift or shirt?  just made of a heavier and
colored fabric?  I know that extant garments are few
and far between but was always taught that
undergarments changed their shape less often then the
fashionable outer clothing.  My little boy wants to be
a Battle of Hastings longbowman for Halloween and I
con't make myself just throw something together when I
have the appropriate linen on hand in a length too
short for me or the girls.  Is blue period for 1066
anyway?  His father already has the appropriate
chainmail on hand so I just need the tunic and cloak.
                                      Cassandra

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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
To: "LIST H costume" 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] The never-ending pregnancy discussion
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>can we
PLEASE get back to costuming (even if it is maternity clothes) and leave the
rest of the childbearing or not childbearing out of the list?

My post included comments maternity costume, which I think were relative to
the original post ie would one be changing the costume or wearing particular
garments (I think )

Mel

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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:48:24 +0100 (BST)
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Mike, I don't want to get upset, but I am 33 years old and I do know about
responsibility and most of all this is EXACTLY why being a godmother is so
important to me and OF COURSE this is a consideration, this is exactly what it
is all about! Okay, I won't get upset, you couldn't know, but please do NOT be
patronising, I am NOT a little kiddie.

Nicole

 --- leigh tartaglio  wrote: > Hi, All. Remember that being a
Godmother (at least historically, I don't know
> about
> the German Catholic Church) meant that you were taking responsibility for
> raising
> the child should anything happen to the parents (God forbid!). With the rest
> of her
> living relatives being so old, I wonder if you ever considered this part? I
> don't
> know if anyone would hold you to it, but....   Just a thought, Mike T.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 01:20:24 -0700
Status: RO

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=715026111

Stumbled across this on accident while idly looking for fabric... 
Gorgeous... ::drools::  And it's really nice that some people actually know 
to photograph all the interesting details too!

-Laura

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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:42:56 +0100
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Mel wrote:

>There is a wonderful cartoon in one of the Punches of a before & after the
>ball, the gowns and hair dos are totally wreaked in the after ! Not so far
>from the truth sometimes as I've lost my hair piece several times & nearly
>my skirt a few !!

And there's a funny episode in Trollope's "Barchester Towers" where Mrs. Proudie (the Bishop's pompous wife) has her train ripped at a dance in her own home, I think by its getting caught under the leg of a sofa.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:13:53 +0100
Status: RO

Nicole wrote:
> I'll be officially godmother too, but only if the German catholic church >allows me to be godmother no 2 without actually having a Christian >denomination. It is really weird in germany, if you are not a member of a >Church and pay your taxes to the church you are not allowed to do or >become certain things. 

I don't want to start another flame war, but I have to point out that this is entirely logical, since baptism is primarily a religious ceremony and the godparents are there to make a public profession of faith on the child's behalf.

The only clothing I've made for my various honorary nephews and nieces was a matinee jacket, which I knitted several times for different babies, but I've seen babies in the SK in dear little dresses, complete with "leading strings".



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:55:19 +0100 (BST)
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 --- Kate M Bunting  wrote: > 

Costume content towards the bottom...

> >denomination. It is really weird in germany, if you are not a member of a
> >Church and pay your taxes to the church you are not allowed to do or >become
> certain things. 
> 
> I don't want to start another flame war, but I have to point out that this is
> entirely logical, since baptism is primarily a religious ceremony and the
> godparents are there to make a public profession of faith on the child's
> behalf.

Ah, no dear, I don't think you understand. This has NOTHING to do with faith
and therefore is not logical at all, this is about money. What happens in
Germany is that automatically when you start earning money there is a church
tax taken off your wages and goes to either the Catholic or the Protestant
church, deending on which one you are in (chosen by your parents and baptism or
by yourself if you want to change that). If your parents chose not to be in
either, or simply if your cultural background is different and you are a
moslem, for example, then tose taxes are not taken of course. So, say, for
example, you are deeply religious and believe very much in a Christian God, but
are not too happy with the way the German protestant or Catholic church are
dealing with religion, or, indeed, you believe in a christian God but not quite
like either of the main churches do, and you are therefore not one of their tax
payers because you don't feel like giving money to an institution you don't
quite agree with, then you cannot partake in church things like baptism,
wedding, burial, etc. Therefore it is a simple equation: no pay = no service/no
participation. NOT no faith = no participation. Soooo.. it is not quite that
logical in my books.

Anyway, I am very happy with holding acandle because I always respected and
tolerated my dearest friend's church-streamline Catholic religion while she
always respected and tolerate my non-Christian beliefs or lack of them.
This is what it is all about: tolerance, and we've been best friends since
University, probably because we have the same human VALUES and come from
different angles but end up in a very similar place.

> The only clothing I've made for my various honorary nephews and nieces was a
> matinee jacket, which I knitted several times for different babies, but I've
> seen babies in the SK in dear little dresses, complete with "leading
> strings".

Oh yes, I would love to make such a cute little dress, but that has to wait at
least a couple of years I guess :-)
Bjarne sent me the most wonderful little laced baby bonnet, I will try to copy
that one, but I don't have a clue about sizes. Sushi said a man's bigger fist
should be the correct size, yes?
Also, does anyone have an idea for which fabric to use which is washable and
soft for a baby blanket?
Gosh how I would love to make proper 17th c. swaddling clothes but I think
Sushi would hit me over the head with several heavy implemets if I tried to
swaddle the kidie *LOL*

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christening bonnet pattern?
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:14:37 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

 --- leigh tartaglio  wrote: > Hi, All. Anne Buck's book
"Clothes and the Child, a Handbook of Children's
> Dress in
> England 1500-1900" has a cap (bonnet) pattern dated 1838 on page 51, a frock
> or
> nightgown, same date on page 46, and tons of other ideas. The book is by
> Holmes and
> Meier in NYC, dated 1996 and the ISBN is 0-8419-1371-4. Hope this helps, Mike
> T.

Great idea, cheers! I even have the book somewhere I think...

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan shift again
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 06:28:14 EDT
Status: RO

Earlier undergarments were a lot simpler - none of the side inserts or 
triangular pieces under the arms.

And on the really early stuff, of course (pre about 14th centry), no cuffs or 
collars - basically just a t-shape.  Easiest way to cut it is to use the fold 
in the linen (or fold lengthways if it doesn't have one), then measure the 
length of the garment, down the selvedge allowing a bit extra for hems etc, 
and fold it in half (along the width). Then you just cut the garment as half 
a t-shape, with sleeves cut in one with the body, and flaring out as 
appropriate at skirts.  If the fabric isn't quite wide enough for the 
sleeves, you just cut that bit separately and seam it whereever it happens to 
end.

Oh, and blue is absolutely period for 1066 - am currently making new hose for 
Nigel for the re-enactment of Hastings in a few weeks, and blue is one of the 
colours I'm using (he has to compete in the disgusting hooped hose 
competition!).

Debs. 

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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:26:43 +0100
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>Also, does anyone have an idea for which fabric to use which is washable
and
soft for a baby blanket?

Historically or modern ?

Mel

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To: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Various types of 1875 evening gowns
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>And there's a funny episode in Trollope's "Barchester Towers" where Mrs.
Proudie (the Bishop's pompous wife) has her train ripped at a dance in her
own home, I think by its getting caught under the leg of a sofa.

Mine are usually caught under the leg/foot of the man behind :)

Lost pieces of skirts just walking alone that way too :( No awareness some
people !

Mel


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A scrumptious book I've not seen mentioned in this discussion (though
I've only been skimming) is _The Opulent Era:  Fashions of Worth,
Doucet, and Pingat_ by Elizabeth Ann Coleman, which accompanied an
exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum.  It has photos of some truly droolworthy
creations spanning from 1865-1895 (or so).  It's not cheap, and it
doesn't have the dozens and dozens of examples you'll find in the Dover
books (bless them!), but it does have some incredible garments,
including one set with dinner and evening bodice from 1894 (late, I
know, but perhaps worth perusal).

Melanie Schuessler
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>A scrumptious book I've not seen mentioned in this discussion (though
>I've only been skimming) is _The Opulent Era:  Fashions of Worth,
>Doucet, and Pingat_ by Elizabeth Ann Coleman, which accompanied an
>exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum.  It has photos of some truly droolworthy
>creations spanning from 1865-1895 (or so).  It's not cheap,

Life's rough, and then you buy another costume book...

>  and it
>doesn't have the dozens and dozens of examples you'll find in the Dover
>books

It does have quite a few, and some really great colour pictures, unlike Dover.

>  (bless them!), but it does have some incredible garments,
>including one set with dinner and evening bodice from 1894 (late, I
>know, but perhaps worth perusal).

Yes, worth a perusal.


Kayta

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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole
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Baby blankets: I've got a copy of a book called _Quilts of Provence_ --
I think it's out of print right now -- that shows some really lovely
quilted coverlets for babies' cribs, as well as small quilted garments
(jacket-type things) and bibs.  These would definitely be washable, if you
wanted to reproduce them using modern quilting cottons and batting.  White
is not a bad idea, actually, as it can be bleached to get out food stains
etc.

For my nephew, I made up a (modern) baby blanket using a cute checked
quilting cotton for one side and a fake fur that looked like sheepskin for
the other side, and some kind of edging (can't remember exactly).  Very
washable, and comfortable.

Congrats on your impending aunt-ship!  I wish my nephews lived closer...

-- Mara



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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 07:39:50 -0600
Status: RO

Wow! Don't think that would ever happen, here in the U.S.--too many
different denominations, not to mention pesky things like constitutional
separation of church and state . Churches here do get tax-free
status, but their monies come from donations, and (in some cases)
investments and properties.
Church policies here on non-members or non-believers participating in
ceremonies such as baptism, marriage, funerals would vary
enormously--some care quite a bit (i.e., you need to be a member of
*their* church), some not so much (just be a believer/general
Christian), and in some cases (probably funeral or memorial services),
it just wouldn't matter much.
Obligatory Costume Content:
The bonnet sounds like a lovely idea, especially since you say you have
a good collection of lace.  You could maybe make one of those bonnets
that turns into a wedding hankie? ISTR this getting discussed on another
list (lace, maybe? Bjarne, do you remember?)
Blankets? I'd think a really nice, soft cotton flannel (or something
similar) would be appropriate.
Oh, I envy you all the wonderful mad-auntie things you'll get to do! I
always wanted to be one of those, especially since I'll never be a mom!
--Sue

N Kipar wrote:
> 

> Ah, no dear, I don't think you understand. This has NOTHING to do with faith
> and therefore is not logical at all, this is about money. What happens in
> Germany is that automatically when you start earning money there is a church
> tax taken off your wages and goes to either the Catholic or the Protestant
> church, deending on which one you are in (chosen by your parents and baptism or
> by yourself if you want to change that).


> Bjarne sent me the most wonderful little laced baby bonnet, I will try to copy
> that one, but I don't have a clue about sizes. Sushi said a man's bigger fist
> should be the correct size, yes?
> Also, does anyone have an idea for which fabric to use which is washable and
> soft for a baby blanket?
> Gosh how I would love to make proper 17th c. swaddling clothes but I think
> Sushi would hit me over the head with several heavy implemets if I tried to
> swaddle the kidie *LOL*
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I'm a writer who covers the fashion and textiles industries and I'm wondering 
what the primary magazines and publications are for the historic costume 
universe.  What magazines or journals do you all read?  Is there any magazine 
that covers the BUSINESS of making historic costumes?  Is there a magazine 
that avid historical costume people read just to keep up on the news, events 
and developments in the historical costume world?  I'd love to check them 
out.  Thanks for any info!
-Julia

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I'm a writer who covers the fashion and textiles industries and I'm wondering what the primary magazines and publications are for the historic costume universe.  What magazines or journals do you all read?  Is there any magazine that covers the BUSINESS of making historic costumes?  Is there a magazine that avid historical costume people read just to keep up on the news, events and developments in the historical costume world?  I'd love to check them out.  Thanks for any info!

-Julia

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Jonna Hayden [jonna_hayden@yahoo.com] sent it to me.  She had downloaded
it from somewhere, but couldn't remember where.  I doubt she would mind
since she so freely sent it to us individually, but it doesn't 'really'
come from me.

Sg



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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:52:44 -0500 (CDT)
Status: RO


On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 Debs48064229@aol.com wrote:

> Earlier undergarments were a lot simpler - none of the side inserts or
> triangular pieces under the arms.

I think that's an oversimplification -- but one I hear a lot, so I
wouldn't be surprised if it's in some sources this way.

Earlier garments (both over and under, as far as we have evidence) often
do have gores (side inserts in the body) and/or gussets under the arms (or
equivalent expansion in the sleeve piece) or other fiddly bits.

The original poster was on the right track in thinking that Elizabethan
undergarments might preserve some of the techniques of earlier
overgarments, but no, the cut isn't necessarily the same. A lot depends on
wheres and whens -- a few centuries here and there can make a huge
difference, even within the "earlier" periods that tend to all get lumped
together.

Best to think of it this way: The earlier cutting methods generally are
based on combinations of geometric shapes, such as rectangles, triangles,
and trapezoids, arranged in a variety of ways to cover the body and allow
room for movement. This was true of both outer garments and undergarments.
Over the centuries, curves were introduced in crucial areas (e.g. the
set-in sleeve, which achieved a near-modern recognizable form around the
1330s in Western Europe) that changed the nature of the fit and
silhouette, primarily in outergarments, while undergarments (it is
believed) typically remained geometric. The difference may have to do in
part with the use of linen for undergarments and primarily wools for
overgarments, but there are a lot of factors at work here.

By the Elizabethan period, you also are looking at a significantly changed
context for clothing construction, in which (primarily male) tailors and
other specialists, using pattern-books and proprietary methods, are
responsible for making many outer garments, while a different set of
individuals -- primarily female -- are making undergarments, for
themselves or for sale, using more traditional methods. So construction of
undergarments and overgarments are now following different lines of
development. (Again, oversimplified, but these are key points.)

So the original poster can look at an Elizabethan shift and see that it
retains the elements of rectalinear construction that is also a hallmark
of garment-making in the earlier periods. Beyond that, I wouldn't adopt an
Elizabethan shift construction for an earlier garment.

The method Debs described for making a "T-tunic" is a common one for
modern re-enactors, but not a likely one for the Hastings period, when
fabric widths were far narrower. You'll get better fit and less waste if
you cut the body panels (one front, one back) in single rectangular
lengths, or all one length folded over, with an opening in the middle for
the head. Then expand the lower half by inserting gores (tall skinny
triangles) at the side seams and/or into slashes in the front and back.
Sleeves can be trapezoidal or rectangular, with gussets inserted under the
arms for movement as needed. My usual gusset is a couple of right
triangles that form a square of five or six inches on a side, or you can
cut the added angle of fabric directly into the sleeve piece.

For just one example of this general approach, look at this:

http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/StLouis.html

...but bear in mind that the "tunic" in this case is a shirt (an
undergarment) of the 1200s. Also, the diagram here was based on a
publication that was not very accurate. Heather Rose Jones of this list
has written an article that describes some more subtle angles involved in
the cutting of these pieces. But as a quick example of the basic body
panels + gores construction, this is as good as any. You can rearrange the
gores, add gussets, adjust the height of the gores and angles of some of
the pieces, and you'll still be within range of period constructions.

Blue is probably the most common dye available in the Middle Ages, and was
certainly the cheapest -- as long as you're talking an indigo (woad) blue,
not a cobalt blue. For a sense of the indigo range, consider the blue in
blue jeans -- everything from the darkest newest pairs to the most faded
powder-blue ones. Those are all indigo-achievable colors. (There are
others, too, but that's a start.) By contrast, there are many other blues
available today that are not in the indigo range; you can often recognize
these because they don't "go" with bluejeans if you try to wear them
together.

--Robin

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] magazines and publications
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 JAzo478796@aol.com wrote:

> I'm a writer who covers the fashion and textiles industries and I'm
> wondering what the primary magazines and publications are for the
> historic costume universe.  What magazines or journals do you all
> read?

Good question. For research, there's _Costume_ (journal of the UK Costume
Society), _Dress_ (journal of the US Costume Society), and the
lesser-known _Costume Research Journal_ (of the US Institute of Theater
Technology). Plus some European journals that include costume content.

There are a handful of magazines (as opposed to research journals) for
re-enactors, including the SCA's _Tournaments Illuminated_ (medieval). I'm
not sure what's out there now -- there used to be a range of re-enactment
magazines for various periods, but these things tend to be short-lived.
And of course they cover things besides costuming.

Plus the textiles magazines, like _Piecework_. And those cover a variety
of textile topics, not just historical.

> Is there any magazine that covers the BUSINESS of making
> historic costumes?  

I'll leave this to someone else to answer.

> Is there a magazine that avid historical costume people read just to
> keep up on the news, events and developments in the historical costume
> world?

If you find one, let me know.

--Robin

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> 
> From: Sue Clemenger 
> Date: 2002/09/23 Mon AM 09:39:50 EDT
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole
> 
> Wow! Don't think that would ever happen, here in the U.S.--too many
> different denominations, not to mention pesky things like constitutional
> separation of church and state . Churches here do get tax-free
> status, but their monies come from donations, and (in some cases)
> investments and properties.

    Of course it DID happen here in the Colonies in that past, and even in some of the States.  Massachusetts had an "Established Faith" until 1836 I understand.

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:37:19 -0700
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A
>> Is there a magazine that avid historical costume people read just to
>> keep up on the news, events and developments in the historical costume
>> world?
No, but I wish there were. PLEASE tell us you're asking becasue you're
researching a business plan for developing such a magazine!

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Various types of 1875 evening gowns
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can we come?

(just kidding, it sounds so great!)
.heather.



> I'm planning to wear the gown I'm going to make to a costume ball that will
> be held at a friend's house ( which just happens to be an 1870's Italianate
> Villa complete with Ballroom!) From what I've heard it will be a very
> elegant evening.  
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Link to Medici portrait
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You said it: drool-worthy.

I'm not all that crazy about most late-period stuff usually - too crowded,
and too heavy. But this one... wow! I don't want to wear black though -
it'll probably be somewhere around the rust or russet colors. And silk :-)

Can a high necked smock and doublet be worn together? Because it looks like
that's what she's wearing, and it's beautiful.

To answer your question, yes those are clusters of pearls, lots of pearls,
that's what got me interested in this painting in the first place, before I
started looking at the gown itself. If I find a bigger picture of her in the
Medici portraits book, like someone suggested, I'll scan it and put it up on
the web so you can have a look. It's truly beautiful.

I love the way everything - waist tabs, sleeve slashes, etc. is edged in
pale material. I just can't figure out WHAT it's edged with, it almost looks
like small fabric tabs or (what are those long beads called again?). You
can't see it from the picture but I see it on my small black and white
version in 20,000 years of fashion.

Why do I always have to fall in love with the unknown and impossible to find
pictures?? ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Clemenger" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Link to Medici portrait


> Ooooh, thanks, darlin'.  This is not one I'd ever seen before, so I was
> completely clueless as to just what folks were referring to!
> Am I completely off-base, or is she wearing a high-necked doublet, with
> some sort of tabs at the waist? and a separate skirt that opens down the
> front? Are her lower sleeves slashed in some spiral fashion? Are those
> clusters of pearls, or something else??
> Dang, but it's just *droolsome.*  Something like this could get me back
> into late-period garb!
> --Sue, who unfortunately has *just* the right black velvet and pearls
> for something like this......;-)
>
> Saragrace knauf wrote:
> >
> >  http://www.saragrace.net/images/laudomia.jpg
> _______________________________________________
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ROBIN:
Thanks so much for the info!
-Julia

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ROBIN:

Thanks so much for the info!

-Julia

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Margo:
I wasn't asking because I'm researching launching such a magazine - but now 
that you point out that there's an unmet need, I'll start talking around!  Do 
you have ANY idea how many potential readers there might be out there?  Do 
you have any figures about the number of people involved in the business of 
historical costumes?  I'd love to know - it would help me make my pitch to 
existing apparel/textile magazine publishers.
Thanks for your response,
Best,
Julia

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Margo:

I wasn't asking because I'm researching launching such a magazine - but now that you point out that there's an unmet need, I'll start talking around!  Do you have ANY idea how many potential readers there might be out there?  Do you have any figures about the number of people involved in the business of historical costumes?  I'd love to know - it would help me make my pitch to existing apparel/textile magazine publishers.

Thanks for your response,

Best,

Julia

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These are a couple of other sites that discuss male clothes of that =
period.

http://www.lothene.demon.co.uk/crafts6.html

http://users.aol.com/vanishwood/keep/garb1.htm

Does he want to be a Norman or a Saxon?  It seems to me that they =
dressed somewhat differently, but I couldn't find any links to Norman =
pages.

Janet

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These are a couple of other sites that =
discuss male=20
clothes of that period.


 


http://www.lothene.d=
emon.co.uk/crafts6.html


 


http://users.aol.=
com/vanishwood/keep/garb1.htm


 


Does he want to be a Norman or a =
Saxon?  It=20
seems to me that they dressed somewhat differently, but I couldn't find =
any=20
links to Norman pages.


 


Janet


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>
>Can a high necked smock and doublet be worn together? 

Absolutely. Remember that one of the primary purposes of the smock was to
protect the hard to clean outer clothing from perspiration and body oils,
so I would expect that a doublet bodice would be worn with either a high
necked smock, or a partlet. 

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com
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        Bjarne, thank you so much.  What a great URL.

Lalah
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Nicole, what a wonderful story.  Family history is better than fiction. 
And good for you getting a valuable ring when you just wanted something
special of your grandmother's.  I'll bet she is laughing in heaven still.

Lalah
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Nicole wrote:
Gosh how I would love to make proper 17th c. swaddling clothes but I think
Sushi would hit me over the head with several heavy implemets if I tried to
swaddle the kidie *LOL*

It may surprise you, but in any newborn nursery you will see that the
infants are, in fact, swaddled.  It helps calm them as they are used to a
somewhat cramped environment, and also helps keep them warm, as the
temperature regulation mechanism does not work well in infants.  This is
actually recommended by one "expert" I saw mentioned recently I think in a
Reader's Digest as a method to soothe the cranky infant.  But this is done
simply by wrapping them in a blanket- put the head up towards one corner of
the blanket, fold the bottom corner up over the baby, then the left and
right sides kinda roll over.  Keeps them nice and snug and happy.  I,
however, do NOT know what exactly 17th century swaddling clothes were.  And
this is done only on young infants, say, under 4 months old- once they start
moving under their own power nothing will keep them wrapped up.
Not an expert- but I had a rotation working in a newborn nursery as a nurse,
-Megan

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Sadly there seems to be not all that many of these around.  There used to be 
a nice Victorian-oriented magazine, called Lady's Gallery, that covered 
costumes of the era as well as home dec.  I also subscribed to a magazine 
called Costume and Dressmaker that held great promise but seemed to have a 
lot of trouble adhering to a set publishing schedule and is no longer in 
publication.  I think they only ever published two or three issues, at least 
that was all I ever got... 

Other than that the only a few things that come close: Dress, the Costume 
Society's publication, which is very good but more research/scholarly rather 
than how-to.  There is Renaissance Magazine which, as name would have you 
guess, covers the Tutor/Eliz. period and has had a few worthy costume 
articles on occasion, I recall a nice blackwork one a while back.  Victoria 
magazine also occasionally makes a foray into costume. Some of the 
publications geared towards the civ war/rev war reenactor might be good, I 
don't have much experience with them.

But as far as I know since Costume and Dressmaker went under there is no 
single publication addressing the research AND fabrication of historic (or 
fantasy) costumes.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Loren Dearborn
marionetta@aol.com
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From: Linda Krecker-Schkred 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] magazines and publications
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I bet a magazine would appeal to more than just the professionals. 
Along with the full time costumers there is a whole slew of 
part-timers.

There's all the recreation costumers, theatre costumers, costumers 
for movies, historical pattern makers, Archivists (?) people who work 
on museums and make or supervise the making of museum recreations, 
researchers and suppliers that cater exclusively to historical 
costumers. There must be more.

As far as exact numbers, the above categories are rather divergent. 
People working in them tend not to intermix except in forums like 
this or maybe to some places like Costume Con.

The unions might have numbers for Theatre costumers and maybe movie 
costumers also. As far as the other catagories, some one else might 
have a rough idea.

Linda K-S
(Rhianwen)
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Loren:
Thanks for the info and insights!
Best,
Julia

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Loren:

Thanks for the info and insights!

Best,

Julia

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 23 13:26:00 2002
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Gail, I think I made the same gown. By the time I finished it, it no longer
fit my very large offspring!  I gave it away to the parents of a much tinier
baby!  I recall it was indeed, a nightmare.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"Nay then, let the devil wear black,
for I'll have a suit of sables..."
W. Shakespeare
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail & Scott Finke" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 10:16 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole


>
>
> Nicole:
>
> Congratulations! If someone had been that happy for me (outside my family,
I
> mean) I would have been ecstatic!
>
> I never sewed for my children when they were babies, I was so busy that
they
> grew too fast. I don't know if pattern sizes are like ready-to-wear sizes,
> but ready-to-wear baby sizes are a joke, at least in the USA. Buy LOTS
> bigger than they say.
>
> I did sew a christening gown once, it was the relatively plain one still
> sold by Vogue (no tucks or lace insertion or anything). It looks great --
> all the cousins in the family have used it -- but it was the hardest thing
I
> ever made. The instructions were terrible.
>
> Gail Finke
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 23 13:28:59 2002
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>It may surprise you, but in any newborn nursery you will see that the
infants are, in fact, swaddled

Where is this ?

I had my children in Enland  between 5-16 years ago and didn't see swaddling
here, but mine were with me not in a nursery, I an over protective Mum :)

My Mum tells me I was swaddled as you describe , also England but in the 60s

Mel

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 23 13:48:04 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Where to find pearls
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Hi,
I know a couple of people posted links before about where to find pearls,
either real ones or, more likely, glass ones. I know fire mountain gems
sells them, but do you have other sources?
Thanks!
Audrey
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 23 13:56:56 2002
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From: "Colleen McDonald" 
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Greetings all,

I'm still working on the 14th century Italian project and counting the days until March 1 (the competition).

I'm hoping that someone on the list might be able to point me to a source that discusses the width of linen during this period.  I've looked through MOL: Textiles and Clothing and didn't see anything specific, so any other sources would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Best regards,

Colleen


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 23 14:06:43 2002
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:59:56 -0700
Status: RO

Ornamental Resources in Denver carries them, as well as some other lovely
applique materials suitable for costume use.

http://www.ornabead.com/

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"Nay then, let the devil wear black,
for I'll have a suit of sables..."
W. Shakespeare
----- Original Message -----
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 10:44 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Where to find pearls


> Hi,
> I know a couple of people posted links before about where to find pearls,
> either real ones or, more likely, glass ones. I know fire mountain gems
> sells them, but do you have other sources?
> Thanks!
> Audrey
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 23 14:50:10 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christening bonnet/Godmother
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:46:35 -0500
Status: RO

Congratters Nicole!

Being and aunt (x10), as well as being a godmother (x3) is TOTALLY AWESOME!
For the first one, I made a christening bonnet....I just took a *basic*
modern pattern, but covered it in that wonderful late Elizabethan/early
polychrome viney/flowery embroidery.  It turned out ok.....it'd have been
nicer if I had had more time.....like everything.

For the third, I wanted to make the whole outfit, but a friend of my s-i-l's
family beat me too it.  Bothersome, since I had 14 hanks of tiny tiny seed
pearls for smocking and my eye on some fine batiste.  Oh well....

Besides the whole responsibility thing.....lets take it as read.  Another
thing I really want/wanted to do is lay down some port for the three of
them.  Unfortunately, none of the 3 g-kids were born in a vintage year.  On
the other hand, I had no money then.  But, with a real job now, and a
recently released vintage (I can't recall if it was 2000 or 2002) is
supposed to be good (and hopefully young enough to be reasonably priced)
...so I think I'm gonna start pricing port.  Kind of silly, but why not?

As for being a crazy aunt.....go for it.....everybody needs one, if not
more.
marie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 23 14:51:32 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:50:20 -0500 (CDT)
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Colleen McDonald wrote:

> I'm hoping that someone on the list might be able to point me to a
> source that discusses the width of linen during this period.  I've
> looked through MOL: Textiles and Clothing and didn't see anything
> specific, so any other sources would be greatly appreciated!

No specific sources, but my understanding was that linen weaving in this
period was a "cottage craft" -- done by individual women in their homes,
for personal use or for sale. So, fabric width would be dictated by the
width achievable by a person working alone. Perhaps the weavers on the
list can confirm -- about 22-24 inches, in part depending on the person's
arm length?

--Robin

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Subject: [h-cost] Re: 14th century fabric trim; was: 14th c. linen width
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Colleen wrote:
> I'm still working on the 14th century Italian
> project and counting the days until March 1 (the
> competition).

Colleen,

A while back I believe you asked if there was any
evidence for using fabric as contrasting-colored trim
on clothing in the 14th century. I knew I'd seen it in
spots, and I seem to remember now that one such
example can be found in the MoL book itself. I don't
have it handy to reference a page, but I remember
seeing a picture that looks a lot like a significant
strip of cloth sewn around the edge of a hem of some
sort, much like modern-day bias tape is sewn down
(except this piece wasn't on the bias, IIRC). The
strip of cloth would show on the outside, and could
serve as a contrasting color, i.e. trim.

I'm sure there's more, but I'm at work and can't go
access my slowly-growing library of goodies.

Tasha

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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:59:33 -0400
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Ah, this is in the USA.  Different places must have different customs, but
the article I read in the last couple months stated that this guy was in
demand by the parents of many difficult infants and his method of quieting
them was very simple- swaddling, rocking, singing, and sometimes a bear that
made a hearbeat sound- not revolutionary to me, but perhaps many parents are
not doing it?  This person (I wish I remembered the name) was called a
godsend by the parents quoted in it.  Now for the costume part- what were
the traditional swaddling clothes used in the 17th century?
-Megan

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Melanie Wilson
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 1:28 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole


>It may surprise you, but in any newborn nursery you will see that the
infants are, in fact, swaddled

Where is this ?

I had my children in Enland  between 5-16 years ago and didn't see swaddling
here, but mine were with me not in a nursery, I an over protective Mum :)

My Mum tells me I was swaddled as you describe , also England but in the 60s

Mel

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>No specific sources, but my understanding was that linen weaving in this
period was a "cottage craft" -- done by individual women in their homes,
for personal use or for sale

I believed that weaving was moving out of the home by then from Warp
weighted loom to flat loom & the domain of men, I'd need to check but I seem
to recall this being 13th beginings

Mel
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] magazines and publications
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 JAzo478796@aol.com wrote:

> I wasn't asking because I'm researching launching such a magazine -
> but now that you point out that there's an unmet need, I'll start
> talking around!  Do you have ANY idea how many potential readers there
> might be out there?

Start with the membership number on this list. Then multiply, multiply,
multiply. You'd want to make sure any publication had something for each
audience you expect to serve -- various periods' reenactment communities,
theater designers, museum/historical society staff, etc.

In the right hands, this could be an excellent business idea.

(At Northwestern University's j-school, getting a degree in the magazine
program involves designing and preparing a business plan (complete with ad
rates, media kit, etc.) for a new launch. I know several people who then
took their projects into full production, successfully.)

--Robin
journalist in real life


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Robin:  
Thanks for the info.  What kind of journalism do you do?  What types of 
subjects do you cover?  I'd be interested to know, as a fellow writer...
Best,
Julia

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Robin:  

Thanks for the info.  What kind of journalism do you do?  What types of subjects do you cover?  I'd be interested to know, as a fellow writer...

Best,

Julia

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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Megan M. wrote:

> It may surprise you, but in any newborn nursery you will see that the
> infants are, in fact, swaddled.

This was certainly the case when I had my babies in Virginia within the
last decade. We learned the swaddling technique at the hospital. It was
often the best trick for soothing a crying baby. In addition to warmth and
a similar "closeness" as in the womb, it also keeps the baby's limbs under
control -- the baby doesn't have that control at first, and the random
flying or jerking of its arms and legs can be disorienting and, I presume,
frightening.

The wrapping is exactly as the previous poster described, with a baby
blanket. I'd wondered why everyone gave us receiving blankets -- but we
really did use them. We called our little one a "baby burrito," after
seeing the same joke in a Baby Blues comic strip. My oldest liked to suck
on his hand for comfort, so we swaddled him in a position with his hands
near his mouth, so he could find them. Unswaddled, his aim wasn't too
good, and he could rarely connect hand to mouth on the first try!

As for costume content, I believe there's a New Testament reference to
wrapping a certain child in "swaddling clothes." For medieval, I can point
to a couple of tomb brasses (figure 14th-16th c., but I'd have to look) in
which the number and gender of the deceased's children is often indicated
by a row of tiny figures -- and there are swaddled infants alongside their
older siblings.

--Robin


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On 23 Sep 2002 at 12:43, Megan M. wrote:

> It may surprise you, but in any newborn nursery you will see that the
> infants are, in fact, swaddled. .... And this is done only on young infants, say,
> under 4 months old- once they start moving under their own power
> nothing will keep them wrapped up. 

FWIW, I am told that I was swaddled as a baby 
(1965, England). I have no idea in what sort of cloth, 
but I do know that this state of affairs lasted for 
about half an hour, that being how long it took me to 
free my arms and express loud displeasure at the  
entire concept. At that point mother and 
grandmother both took sides with me against the 
midwife, and it never happened again.

Of course, some of this may be Family Legend: I'm 
afraid my own memories are a bit vague.



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From: Robin Netherton 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] magazines and publications
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 JAzo478796@aol.com wrote:

> Robin:  
> Thanks for the info.  What kind of journalism do you do?  What types of 
> subjects do you cover?  I'd be interested to know, as a fellow writer...

Taken to private email.



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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole
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>This was certainly the case when I had my babies in Virginia within the
last decade

It is very interesting, here most babies would be in baby gros (sort of all
in one terry towling things with feet) Sheets and blankets are the general
rule for bedding. The emphasis is not too hot rather than a great deal of
warmth (as it was in my mothers & Grandmothers day)

For comfort I've never had my babies far from me in the first six months at
least probably longer, and generally knew before they cried their signs of
discomfort and changed, fed or cuddled them as required.

>As for costume content, I believe there's a New Testament reference to
wrapping a certain child in "swaddling clothes." For medieval, I can point
to a couple of tomb brasses (figure 14th-16th c., but I'd have to look) in
which the number and gender of the deceased's children is often indicated
by a row of tiny figures -- and there are swaddled infants alongside their
older siblings.

I have to confess I thought swaddling was totally in the past, and it
explains a half forgotton comment by an american friend about my baby, here
the general 'recieved wisdom' is people swaddled in the past to prevent
movement of the limbs least they should become contorted permantly.

I wonder when it ceased here and if it is still common elsewhere ?

Mel


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Nicole:

You will be a wonderful aunt! By all means get those children costumes. I've
always had pirate and knight costumes around for both my children (a boy and
a girl), although I bought commercial Halloween costumes when they were 70%
off. Now they want Ninja and 3 Musketeer outfits, and my son also wants a
British uniform from the American Revolution (he likes those red coats). So
we'll have plenty more. ALL the children who come here to play love to dress
up, and even the mothers who don't let their children play with guns don't
seem to mind the swords and shields.

In the USA, only one godparent has to be Catholic, but I think the other
godparent needs to be a baptised Christian. I'm not sure about that, though.
But the church has different rules in different countries -- in a lot of
matters, the local bishops get to make the decisions.

Gail Finke


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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Melanie Wilson wrote:

> It is very interesting, here most babies would be in baby gros (sort
> of all in one terry towling things with feet) Sheets and blankets are
> the general rule for bedding. The emphasis is not too hot rather than
> a great deal of warmth (as it was in my mothers & Grandmothers day)

All true here as well. The temperature dictates the number of layers. When
we swaddled my winter baby, it was a blanket over the babygro (or "footed
sleeper," as we call them, with Babygro being one popular brand). When we
swaddled my summer baby, it was often with a very light receiving blanket
over a light gown, a t-shirt, or a diaper only.

> For comfort I've never had my babies far from me in the first six
> months at least probably longer, and generally knew before they cried
> their signs of discomfort and changed, fed or cuddled them as
> required.

Also true here. But our first baby was colicky and cried often, including
before, after, and sometimes during nursing. Swaddling was one of the few
things that calmed him enough to sleep, and kept him asleep for more than
a few minutes. When the blanket loosened (as it will after a while) he
would wake and cry till he was re-swaddled. This was even the case when he
was sleeping (swaddled) in our arms or our bed.

We were told at the time that different babies responded differently to
swaddling -- it was just one more tool in the toolbox of ways to soothe
the baby. Some like the swing. Some like the pacifier ("dummy") or thumb.
Some like music. Some like swaddling.

Our second baby liked swaddling just for a couple of weeks, I think. But
he was a much easier baby -- cried only when there was something wrong,
and it was usually easy to detect the source of discomfort and fix it, or
even spot the early signs before the crying started. With my first baby, I
wondered why other parents seemed to manage so easily; after my second, I
realized that some babies are just more sensitive to stimuli, and react
differently. I'm glad I had my "hard" baby before my "easy" one -- other
parents I know had the reverse combination, and were in for a rude shock.

> I have to confess I thought swaddling was totally in the past, and it
> explains a half forgotton comment by an american friend about my baby,
> here the general 'recieved wisdom' is people swaddled in the past to
> prevent movement of the limbs least they should become contorted
> permantly.

Since the swaddling of past centuries seems to have required separate
clothing, not just the handy blanket, I wonder if it may have been
different in nature. As someone already noted, an active baby won't stay
swaddled, and once they gain sufficient control of their limbs and want to
start using them, swaddling becomes less desired or desirable. But perhaps
"swaddling clothes" did not allow the child to free himself?

> I wonder when it ceased here and if it is still common elsewhere ?

I'd lay money that it hasn't really ceased there, either. I suspect this
is a custom you see in cultures all over the world. (Some native Americans
certainly did it.) People who find their babies like it, and who don't
object to it on principle, will continue to do it, while others won't.
Kind of like pacifier use.

--Robin

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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Robin Netherton wrote:
> No specific sources, but my understanding was that linen weaving in this
> period was a "cottage craft" -- done by individual women in their homes,
> for personal use or for sale. So, fabric width would be dictated by the
> width achievable by a person working alone. Perhaps the weavers on the
> list can confirm -- about 22-24 inches, in part depending on the person's
> arm length?
>
> --Robin

I've heard anywhere from 27" to 33", for 18th c., but can't remember the
source -- maybe someone with a more authoritative knowledge can chime in.
I could easily handle 30 to 33", at 5'7".  Anyway, my answer to the
problem is to split my 60" wide linen down the middle to get the proper
width for shifts, etc.

-- Mara

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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:23:18 -0700
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Hi all, 

Thanks for the suggestions so far.  

I'm trying to find a *written* source for this in the 14th century (doesn't even have to be Italian.)  I want to document it for a competition in March, rather than a general "that's the way it was done" type of thing.  

Hope this helps to clarify what I'm looking for.

Thanks!

Colleen


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I forget what it's called, but my sister got a baby sling when she had her
first baby; it's basically an oblong pouch, with padded edges, that you
sling over one shoulder and under the other arm.  The baby can be situated
over one hip, the stomach, etc.; and it makes it easier to go around doing
chores, shopping, and so on.  It's a modern take on the way women in 18th
c. and earlier Europe, and in other cultures around the world, 'slung'
their children using a piece of cloth.

-- Mara

On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Robin Netherton wrote:
> This was certainly the case when I had my babies in Virginia within the
> last decade. We learned the swaddling technique at the hospital. It was
> often the best trick for soothing a crying baby. In addition to warmth and
> a similar "closeness" as in the womb, it also keeps the baby's limbs under
> control -- the baby doesn't have that control at first, and the random
> flying or jerking of its arms and legs can be disorienting and, I presume,
> frightening.

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:50:20 -0500 (CDT) Robin Netherton
 wrote:
> No specific sources, but my understanding was
> that linen weaving in this
> period was a "cottage craft" -- done by
> individual women in their homes,
> for personal use or for sale. So, fabric width
> would be dictated by the
> width achievable by a person working alone.
> Perhaps the weavers on the
> list can confirm -- about 22-24 inches, in part
> depending on the person's
> arm length?

You know, I've been hearing this for a long time in various discussions,
covering the entire Middle Ages & Renaissance in all places and cultures.
Sometimes it's said to be just for linen, sometimes all fabrics; the reported
widths vary, to as narrow as 12 to 14 inches. But no one ever seems to have
documentation. Is this for real or is it one of those things that just gets
passed around from person to person so everyone assumes it's true?

I would tend to think that reality would be more complex, that certain fabrics
at certain times were narrow and at other times not. For instance, where
people were still using warp-weighted looms, I believe it was relatively easy
to weave much wider fabrics, as much as 6 feet wide. And I know there were
regulation widths for kerseys and other specific woolen cloths in medieval
England (though I don't know what they were). 

:>

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Tasha wrote:
<>

I've seen this picture, too, however, I seem to recall that it was considered to be a facing inside the neckline, rather than decorative on the outside of it.  I think it was also a similar color to the fabric that it was on, not a highly contrasting color.  

I'll go back and re-read it this evening, just to make sure.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Colleen 

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Some friends of mine became new parents on the 10th of September, and over 
at their place, we call this style of wrap the "baby burrito" as it's 
remarkably similar!

Mary/Katerine
(who is also thrilled to be an honorary Auntie!!)

But this is done
>simply by wrapping them in a blanket- put the head up towards one corner of
>the blanket, fold the bottom corner up over the baby, then the left and
>right sides kinda roll over.  Keeps them nice and snug and happy.  I,
>however, do NOT know what exactly 17th century swaddling clothes were.  And
>this is done only on young infants, say, under 4 months old- once they 
>start
>moving under their own power nothing will keep them wrapped up.
>Not an expert- but I had a rotation working in a newborn nursery as a 
>nurse,
>-Megan
>




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>By all means get those children costumes

Kids love costume as the costume freak in the family I've just finished
making mu niece as Dressing up box

Mel

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>Also true here. But our first baby was colicky and cried often, including
before, after, and sometimes during nursing.

My firsat was coliky too, I wonder if that is just your milk being slightly
less adapted ? Certainly the supply & demand was better with the others,
first time I overproduced :) But I did find me eating garlic foods sent the
colic away rapidly, so ate lots of garlic after week 3 or so of feeding,
against common advice.

>We were told at the time that different babies responded differently

Child rearing is hard enough without rejecting something that might work :)

>he was a much easier baby -- it was usually easy to detect the source
of discomfort and fix it, or even spot the early signs before the crying
started.

Or perhaps you picked up on it better ? Instinct can be improved by
experiance. My son having helped raise his 2 sisters is brilliant with any
and all babies :)

>babies are just more sensitive to stimuli, and react
differently.

If course each is different in their behaviour even early on.

>Since the swaddling of past centuries seems to have required separate
clothing, not just the handy blanket, I wonder if it may have been
different in nature.

Yes I think you are right now I recall something I read about literally
strapping babies to a board & I think they got hung on a wall (sounds odd so
I'm begining to doubt my memory !!)

>But perhaps
"swaddling clothes" did not allow the child to free himself?

Quite possibily not, I heard once one Native American trbe stopped children
crying because it attracted enemies, not sure how they did it though.

>I'd lay money that it hasn't really ceased there, either.

I'm not sure about that, I did ask around last time the subject cropped up &
nobody I asked knew anything about it, but I'll not claim that was a
scientific study :)

> I suspect this
is a custom you see in cultures all over the world. (Some native Americans
certainly did it.)

I do wonder why or where it started on an evolutional scale it seems
illogical. Unlike dummies or thumbs which are presumably breast replacments

Mel
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>It's a modern take on the way women in 18th
c. and earlier Europe, and in other cultures around the world, 'slung'
their children using a piece of cloth.

Yes I used those too & back packs, but during re-enactment I started using a
cloth & I find it far better than any sling or backpack on the market . I
recently (June) carried my five year old for 4 miles of a 6 mile 'practice'
pilgrimage in 13th C kit see

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/b093eaf7/bc/c1265+Whit+2002/pilgrims5.jpg?BCk
Syt9AF_iika4J

Mel
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>".  Anyway, my answer to the
problem is to split my 60" wide linen

Until recently (and still from tie to time) 60" in England was known as
Broad cloth, which suggests normal cloth was less that this as you suggest.

Mel

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>For instance, where
people were still using warp-weighted looms, I believe it was relatively
easy
to weave much wider fabrics, as much as 6 feet wide

Yes agreed but this width on more modern WWL generally needs 2 weavers.

No arcetecture I remember my building tutor mentioning Upper rooms being
expended in that typical hang over style in some cases to accomodate bigger
looms. Bigger thabn what I don't know, but I might have a book that does ;)

Mel
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:05:53 -0700
Status: RO



Melanie Wilson wrote:

> I have to confess I thought swaddling was totally in the past, and it
> explains a half forgotton comment by an american friend about my baby, here
> the general 'recieved wisdom' is people swaddled in the past to prevent
> movement of the limbs least they should become contorted permantly.
>
> I wonder when it ceased here and if it is still common elsewhere ?
>

Well they do it here, as recently as 18 months ago, (ie in Australia) even
though
they don't have nurseries (all the babies stay with their mums). But then,
having
moved interstate in the middle of my pregnancy, I can tell you that the
policies at
different hospitals are quite different, so perhaps this varies a lot. FWIW we
could never get Erin to stay in her swaddling, or even under her bedclothes
even
when it was (literally) freezing outside. She was just too wriggly. It did help
to
prevent the 'fright reflex' though, which she never liked very much.
Claire

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From: Robin Netherton 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:14:38 -0500 (CDT)
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Melanie Wilson wrote:

> My firsat was coliky too, I wonder if that is just your milk being
> slightly less adapted ? Certainly the supply & demand was better with
> the others, first time I overproduced :) But I did find me eating
> garlic foods sent the colic away rapidly, so ate lots of garlic after
> week 3 or so of feeding, against common advice.

Turned out he was sensitive to cow's milk proteins. When I stopped eating
all dairy, he improved greatly. For many years after, if he got any cow's
milk at all, he would get cranky and tantrumy. At age 9, we still avoid
cow's milk.

The other thing he was sensitive to in my milk was garlic! But research
has shown that some babies (like yours!) love it. My lactation consultant
told to eat lots of it, for that reason. Alas, mine was one in the other
group :-P

>  was a much easier baby -- it was usually easy to
> detect the source of discomfort and fix it, or even spot the early
> signs before the crying started.
> 
> Or perhaps you picked up on it better ? Instinct can be improved by
> experiance. My son having helped raise his 2 sisters is brilliant with
> any and all babies :)

No, I think it really was that the kids responded differently. The
personalities were evident in their first days, and with other people
besides me, regardless of experience levels. I used to think it was an
issue of experience on my part, till I saw enough parents who had their
"easy" and "hard" babies in the reverse order (and didn't know what hit
them -- "but it worked before!")

Um, back to costume content...

> >Since the swaddling of past centuries seems to have required separate
> clothing, not just the handy blanket, I wonder if it may have been
> different in nature.
> 
> Yes I think you are right now I recall something I read about
> literally strapping babies to a board & I think they got hung on a
> wall (sounds odd so I'm begining to doubt my memory !!)

I've heard that too, and can't remember what culture/period it occurred
in.

> >But perhaps
> "swaddling clothes" did not allow the child to free himself?
> 
> Quite possibily not, I heard once one Native American trbe stopped
> children crying because it attracted enemies, not sure how they did it
> though.

Natural selection?

--Robin

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Link to Medici portrait
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:14:00 -0700
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Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:

>
>
> > Ooooh, thanks, darlin'.  This is not one I'd ever seen before, so I was
> > completely clueless as to just what folks were referring to!
> > Am I completely off-base, or is she wearing a high-necked doublet, with
> > some sort of tabs at the waist? and a separate skirt that opens down the
> > front? Are her lower sleeves slashed in some spiral fashion? Are those
> > clusters of pearls, or something else??
> > Dang, but it's just *droolsome.*  Something like this could get me back
> > into late-period garb!
> > --Sue, who unfortunately has *just* the right black velvet and pearls
> > for something like this......;-)
>

The lower sleeves look to me like they have long vertical slashes the length of
the arm and diagonal slashes in between those.
it is a very lovely dress isn't it  - almost enough to make me want to do
Italian.
Claire


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Subject: Swaddling was Re: [h-cost] Re: aunt nicole
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:25:45 +0100
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>Turned out he was sensitive to cow's milk proteins.

My sister had the same problem !

>But research
has shown that some babies (like yours!) love it. My lactation consultant
told to eat lots of it, for that reason.

Hear people tend to think me odd when I suggest it, cultural differences :)

>No, I think it really was that the kids responded differently. The
personalities were evident in their first days, and with other people
besides me, regardless of experience levels. I used to think it was an
issue of experience on my part, till I saw enough parents who had their
"easy" and "hard" babies in the reverse order (and didn't know what hit
them -- "but it worked before!")

I bet mine just go easier, I guess I was lucky

>I've heard that too, and can't remember what culture/period it occurred
in.

Not one of mine I'm pretty sure 17th C perhaps ? Anyone know

>Natural selection?

Whilt the obviopus answer I think they Did something to encorage it but that
sounds only possible with older ones

Mel


.


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 23 19:00:47 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where to find pearls
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RioGrande , I belive in New Mexico,  also sells pearls and findings --a 
little more pricey--but very good quality and fast service:)
They also have a webesite--www.riogrande.com
Cheers and Best!
Albra/Kathryn
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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Cloth width
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:07:21 +0100
Status: RO

 Ciba review 65, states the Livre des Metiers 1260 Paris defines the exact
width of every cloth, and that weavers had to conform to the rules.

Ciba 16 The loom shows various tredle looms 13th -15th roughly your period
all are pretty narrow  I doubt as wide as 36inches ,and confirms my thoughts
on the switch in the 13th C to the tredle/horizontal loom.

It mentiones specific linen looms. which has  2 shafts

I think the information is probably there but you need to look to Guild
records !

For those with an interest in cotton Ciba 64 Cotton & cotton trade in the
middle ages started in

Spain, a 12th C ms describes cotton growing ~& is probably based on earlier
Moorish writings.

14th C Granada cotton in dress material

1255 Catalonia guild of fustaneros transfered their trade to outskirts

italy

12C Genoa raw cotton and fustian

1274 Cortona cotton trade in cloths

Lete 13th C Florence imported textile cotton and locally made also stuffing
for bed quilts & lining winter clothing

FRANCE

12th-14th C fustianes Fairs of Chamagne

1163/1179 fustians Mentioned

14th C stuffing for beds, bourras in Lille wool/cotton fabric (vague)

Dieppe 1362 cotton into, 1387 Haleur for candle wicks gloves & bonnets.

Flanders

1252 cotton goods (a bit vague )

1304 Bruges bales of cotton thread & raw cotton Fame of Flemish fustians in
14th C .

England imitated them a century later

England

1430 attempt in Chester & Lancs to weave coarse fabrics

Sorry this is note form but I'm tired !

Mel
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Swaddling clothes was Re: aunt nicole
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Megan M. wrote:

 > It may surprise you, but in any newborn nursery you will see that the
 > infants are, in fact, swaddled.

I've also got nice clear memories (being the oldest child of three) of 
helping put my little sibs into something that *I* called the "slug suit" 
the "tadpole suit" and the "potato sack" at various times.  What it was was 
a small, hooded coverall-like garment made out of stretchy material, but 
instead of having seperate legs, it had a sort of sack for the bottom half 
of the garment, which closed with snaps.  Mom explained that this was for 
easy changing, but I think it also served as a sort of half-swaddling, since 
the arms were still free.

Also, as far as I recall, swaddling clothes were strips of linen, about 
4"-6" wide, that were wrapped tightly around the baby, and again IIRC left 
for a few days in between changings.  Blech.  Unfortunately, I can't 
remember where I heard this, what period it's for, etc etc, so I'm sure that 
snippet is of little use. :}

-Laura

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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 20:25:33 -0400
Status: RO

Hi. Didn't mean it that way, at least the way I think you thought I meant it (do
you follow, or am I being confusing?) Sorry, Nicole, it seems that a lot of what I
say seems to get misunderstood. I am going to have to go back to school! I didn't
mean to imply that you didn't know about responsibility at all. I am only speaking
from experience. My children's Godparents weren't aware until we explained it, and
still, their only obligation is to help out in case of dire emergency, to get our
kids to the designated relative. Please don't take what was said to be critical,
perhaps this is just another example of cultural differences getting things mixed
up. You know the old joke about the English and the Americans;
two nations separated by a common language, well, we have added yet another layer
with your background. When I first joined this list, I was told that I might get a
little beat up, 'cause some folks were a little tough on new folks. I weathered
the storm, but I told myself that I would try not to give anyone else a hard time.
I hope that I have stuck to this, and, hopefully, you and others will not get too
tired of hearing me apologise for things that I didn't realize I did. I'll just
keep to myself unless directly asked about something from now on, if that is OK.
Cheers, Mike T.  PS No Costume Content here, please feel free to yell at me about
it....MJT

N Kipar wrote:

> Mike, I don't want to get upset, but I am 33 years old and I do know about
> responsibility and most of all this is EXACTLY why being a godmother is so
> important to me and OF COURSE this is a consideration, this is exactly what it
> is all about! Okay, I won't get upset, you couldn't know, but please do NOT be
> patronising, I am NOT a little kiddie.
>
> Nicole
>

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From: leigh tartaglio 
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Hi. This is a little later, but you might want to look at "Renaissance Dress in Italy 1400-1500" by Jacqueline Herald. The text is very descriptive and the appendices have listings of fabrics with the Italian measurements. Mike T.



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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this already [I've been out of town for 
a few days] but a film that takes place in 1876 and has great costumes is 
"The Bostonians". I actually like the film though it is unsuccessful at 
making the book's message.....basically that a woman is not complete without 
a man....more PC and up to date. I don't care. It has great respect and 
understanding of the period. And indeed, everyone finds their proper place at 
the end.

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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this already [I've been out of town for a few days] but a film that takes place in 1876 and has great costumes is "The Bostonians". I actually like the film though it is unsuccessful at making the book's message.....basically that a woman is not complete without a man....more PC and up to date. I don't care. It has great respect and understanding of the period. And indeed, everyone finds their proper place at the end.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 23 21:00:54 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] some books
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 20:48:39 -0400
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Hi, All. I was in my local used book joint today and I noticed that they have a
few copies of Godey's Ladies' Books/ other sorts of 19th Cent. women's
publications. If any one collects these and is interested, send me a note
privately and I will make up a list of what they have, the prices, etc. I will
try and negotiate a bulk price, if possible, and I will pass on my frequent
buyer discount to interested parties, so long as the cost of shipping, etc. is
covered by the buyer. Cheers, Mike T.



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Subject: Re: [h-cost] magazines and publications
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>There's all the recreation costumers, theatre costumers, costumers 
>for movies, historical pattern makers, Archivists (?) people who 
>work on museums and make or supervise the making of museum 
>recreations, researchers and suppliers that cater exclusively to 
>historical costumers. There must be more.

      Subscribers don't keep a magazine afloat, advertisers do.  We 
can think of a lot of people who will read a magazine, but it will 
take more to convince an advertiser to support it.  If there are 
options, an advertiser will tend to go with a more established 
magazine, especially one that might appeal to the general public on 
the newsstand.  Especially these days, when the economy is down. 
Without advertising, a magazine either needs to be privately funded 
or have a high price per copy.  And unfortunately, while we like the 
idea of a costume magazine, many of us would rather spend the money 
on more fabric or getting to the next event or convention.

      -Carol
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 21:22:55 -0500 (CDT)
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An addendum to my previous post: I was speaking from memory of a paper at
Kalamazoo a few years ago by Loretta Hadlock-Kudlo on "Cottage Production
of Cloth: Practical Aspects." Loretta focused specifically on home linen
production. The really keen part was that she produced a variety of linen
goods typical of a medieval household (towels and the like) in various
sizes and weaves, and kept a log of the time and materials involved in the
spinning and weaving -- so she could tag each item in terms of hours
spent.

Anyway, I have some notes from that session. The part I forgot was where
she explained the shift from weaving as largely a woman's job (using
warp-weighted or vertical looms) to a male profession (using treadled
looms). She says the treadled loom appeared in Europe in the first half of
the 11th century, and that while it wove faster and more efficiently, it
required more strength to operate -- and thus began to give rise to a job
class of male weavers by the end of the century. At the same time, though,
she says that women continued to produce much cloth for domestic use on
the older looms well into the 13th century (even later in Scandinavia).
(The source she gave for some of this was Eric Broudy, "The Book of
Looms," 1979.)

She then proceded to demonstrate that many of the complex patterned
textiles of this period are possible to make by the individual weaving in
the home, either on a small treadled loom or a warp-weighted loom.

Essentially her point was that although there was a thriving industry for
manufactured cloth for much of the middle ages, there was also a more
modest and less-talked-about tradition of home production for certain
types of textiles, particularly those for household use. Loretta added
that this role was still apparent in the 19th century in much of rural
Europe, and likely had continued unbroken for centuries.

I have no idea whether chemise linen counts as domestic cloth, but I do
remember Loretta talking about household re-use of fabric -- e.g. today's
tablecloth is tomorrow's chemise. I'm sure much has to do with the wealth
of the household -- if you could afford it, you used manufactured cloth
for certain items.

--Robin


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From: Gail & Scott Finke 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: baby things
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:41:38 -0400
Status: RO



Nicole:

Flannel, cotton and cotton blends all work very well for baby blankets. I
made my daughter a baby quilt from 100% cotton fabrics. It turned out to be
her favorite, and "blankie" is now practically in ribbons (she's eight and a
half, and still sleeps with it.) I just bought some 100% cotton quilting
thread to try to whip stitch parts of it back together. I made an earlier
repair to the binding with poly-cotton, and over time the thread actually
sliced the fabric apart!

Before I try fixing it I'm going to take a picture of the poor thing. The
pattern on one of the fabrics has worn off!

Thanks for the explanation of German taxes and church! I would never have
guessed.

Gail Finke

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From: Heather Rose Jones 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 14th century fabric trim
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At 1:31 PM -0700 9/23/02, Colleen McDonald wrote:
>Tasha wrote:
><example can be found in the MoL book itself. I don't
>have it handy to reference a page, but I remember
>seeing a picture that looks a lot like a significant
>strip of cloth sewn around the edge of a hem of some
>sort, much like modern-day bias tape is sewn down
>(except this piece wasn't on the bias, IIRC). The
>strip of cloth would show on the outside, and could
>serve as a contrasting color, i.e. trim.>>
>
>I've seen this picture, too, however, I seem to recall that it was 
>considered to be a facing inside the neckline, rather than 
>decorative on the outside of it.  I think it was also a similar 
>color to the fabric that it was on, not a highly contrasting color.

The book has both -- the facing example and the decorative-strip 
example.  If I'm recalling the site properly, the Birka graves 
included examples of narrow strips of imported patterned silks that 
occurred in arrangements suggesting decorative use.  I'd have to go 
digging through my various Viking site-reports to make sure of the 
various specifics.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 00:48:47 2002
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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Link to Medici portrait
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 21:46:35 -0700
Status: RO

I first encountered this portrait in 20,000 Years Of Fashion.  Both 
editions have it.

> > > Ooooh, thanks, darlin'.  This is not one I'd ever seen before, so I was
> > > completely clueless as to just what folks were referring to!
> > > Am I completely off-base, or is she wearing a high-necked doublet, with
> > > some sort of tabs at the waist? and a separate skirt that opens down the
> > > front? Are her lower sleeves slashed in some spiral fashion? Are those
> > > clusters of pearls, or something else??
> > > Dang, but it's just *droolsome.*  Something like this could get me back
> > > into late-period garb!
> > > --Sue, who unfortunately has *just* the right black velvet and pearls
> > > for something like this......;-)
> >
>
>The lower sleeves look to me like they have long vertical slashes the 
>length of
>the arm and diagonal slashes in between those.
>it is a very lovely dress isn't it  - almost enough to make me want to do
>Italian.
>Claire
>
>
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Kayta

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 00:58:44 2002
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From: kat@grendal.rain.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:00:08 -0700
Status: RO

Robin wrote:
> Anyway, I have some notes from that session. The part I forgot was
> where she explained the shift from weaving as largely a woman's job
> (using warp-weighted or vertical looms) to a male profession (using
> treadled looms). She says the treadled loom appeared in Europe in the
> first half of the 11th century, and that while it wove faster and more
> efficiently, it required more strength to operate -- and thus began to
> give rise to a job class of male weavers by the end of the century. At
> the same time, though, she says that women continued to produce much
> cloth for domestic use on the older looms well into the 13th century
> (even later in Scandinavia). (The source she gave for some of this was
> Eric Broudy, "The Book of Looms," 1979.)

Elizabeth Barber, in _Women's Work: the first 20,000 years_ also 
discusses this. She brings in the child care/danger aspect as well.

snip
> Essentially her point was that although there was a thriving industry
> for manufactured cloth for much of the middle ages, there was also a
> more modest and less-talked-about tradition of home production for
> certain types of textiles, particularly those for household use.
> Loretta added that this role was still apparent in the 19th century in
> much of rural Europe, and likely had continued unbroken for centuries.
> 
> I have no idea whether chemise linen counts as domestic cloth, but I
> do remember Loretta talking about household re-use of fabric -- e.g.
> today's tablecloth is tomorrow's chemise. I'm sure much has to do with
> the wealth of the household -- if you could afford it, you used
> manufactured cloth for certain items.

I think that this is probably the crux of the matter. If you are 
noble class rather than peasant class, chances are that you would 
purchase your chemise linen, rather than make it yourself. (Although 
I suppose you could purchase it from one of the cottage weavers in 
your area.)

So, this still leaves us with the question: what would the loom 
widths for linen be in 14th C Italy?

Kat Russell


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 01:27:45 2002
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 21:13:49 -0700
Status: RO

At 9:52 AM -0500 9/23/02, Robin Netherton wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 Debs48064229@aol.com wrote:
>
>>  Earlier undergarments were a lot simpler - none of the side inserts or
>>  triangular pieces under the arms.
>
>I think that's an oversimplification -- but one I hear a lot, so I
>wouldn't be surprised if it's in some sources this way.
>
>Earlier garments (both over and under, as far as we have evidence) often
>do have gores (side inserts in the body) and/or gussets under the arms (or
>equivalent expansion in the sleeve piece) or other fiddly bits.

Which reminds me -- I've been meaning to ask you for some "fashion advice"!

"Christian de Holacombe" lives in the city of Exeter in the last 
quarter of the 1200s. So what shape(s) are currently in fashion for 
outer tunics? Sleeve width and style? General type of fit? Locations 
of gores? Underarm gussets? Etc. etc. Due to wealth and contacts, 
she's not going to be too far behind the fashions of London.

You've frequently commented about "the narrower sleeves of 
such-and-such decade" so I thought you might have some ideas. So far 
I've either been making heavily gored tunics (like the Dreaded 
Herjolfsnes thing) because they're comfortable and flattering, or 
else plain old T-tunics with square underarm gussets, side & center 
gores and sleeves about 16 inches wide.
-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 01:27:55 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: copies and rare books
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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:22:33 -0700
Status: RO

A success story, BTW: Interweave Press is FINALLY planning to reprint 
Bishop Richard Rutt's _A History of Hand Knitting_, the "bible" of 
people interested in historical knitting. It's been out of print for 
about ten years now and a lot of historical needleworkers / costumers 
are interested in it.

I spoke with one of Interweave's staff editors recently, and he 
commented that a major factor in their deciding to reprint was the 
amazing prices that copies are selling for on the secondhand market. 
(Original price was $35, now going for $100 and up!) The reprint will 
be out sometime in 2003, maybe as soon as March, maybe in the fall -- 
they aren't sure yet.
-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 01:35:39 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] 14th Century Fabric Trim
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Paintings certainly suggest fabric trim as well as trim of tablet woven 
braids.  I also found the following from Medieval Costume and Fashion by 
Herbert Norris.

"Remnants of an armorial surcote dating about 1240 still exist.  It is of 
very fine linen, golden yellow in colour, and on it a lion in blue linen ("or 
a lion rampant azure" for Rivers) is appliqued, the edges being sewn down 
securely with a solid chain-stitch in dull orange.  Various parts of the 
animal are stitched and darned with deeper blue threads, to suggest the 
anatomy."

I would be most interested in anyone who knows of this example if it indeed 
does exist.  The 14th century had astonishingly beautiful heraldic garments 
and most re-enactors I know use applique to recreate them.

Lisa

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Paintings certainly suggest fabric trim as well as trim of tablet woven braids.  I also found the following from Medieval Costume and Fashion by Herbert Norris.



"Remnants of an armorial surcote dating about 1240 still exist.  It is of very fine linen, golden yellow in colour, and on it a lion in blue linen ("or a lion rampant azure" for Rivers) is appliqued, the edges being sewn down securely with a solid chain-stitch in dull orange.  Various parts of the animal are stitched and darned with deeper blue threads, to suggest the anatomy."



I would be most interested in anyone who knows of this example if it indeed does exist.  The 14th century had astonishingly beautiful heraldic garments and most re-enactors I know use applique to recreate them.



Lisa

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 01:55:46 2002
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From: "Janet  Davis" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where to find pearls
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 01:46:42 -0400
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Thanks for posting this - they have some very cool things!

Janet

> Ornamental Resources in Denver carries them, as well as some other lovely
> applique materials suitable for costume use.
>
> http://www.ornabead.com/
>
> angela
> +++++
> Angela F. Lazear
> Cabbage Rose Costumes
> Theatrical Costume Design
> www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> "Nay then, let the devil wear black,
> for I'll have a suit of sables..."
> W. Shakespeare
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 10:44 AM
> Subject: [h-cost] Where to find pearls
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I know a couple of people posted links before about where to find
pearls,
> > either real ones or, more likely, glass ones. I know fire mountain gems
> > sells them, but do you have other sources?
> > Thanks!
> > Audrey
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 07:25:23 +0100
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>I think that this is probably the crux of the matter. If you are
noble class rather than peasant class, chances are that you would
purchase your chemise linen, rather than make it yourself. (Although
I suppose you could purchase it from one of the cottage weavers in
your area.)

In some areas I don't think that would be allowed were the guilds were
strong & it also suggest you have access to flax to weave from, again in
some areas this would not be possible. From guild info I've read
'outworkers' seem more normal


>So, this still leaves us with the question: what would the loom
widths for linen be in 14th C Italy?

See my post cloth width to get a tiny bit closer :)

Mel


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From: "Jennifer Sena" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where to find pearls
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>Hi,
>I know a couple of people posted links before about where to find pearls,
>either real ones or, more likely, glass ones. I know fire mountain gems
>sells them, but do you have other sources?
>Thanks!
>Audrey

I buy some of mine in a little shop in Hillsboro called Planet Bead.  I 
don't know if they have a web page, but I'll take a look tomorrow.  They 
have both real and glass.  I bought some fantastic gold/bronze/brown pearls 
just because I HAD to have them.  They also have the smokey blue strands of 
3-4mm that I'm collecting for my dream dress.  The prices are very 
competitive with the other places I've seen similar qualities.($2.75 a 
strand for the above blues)  If you are in the Portland area it's worth the 
drive to wander through their collection.


Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!


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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 07:35:56 +0100
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>At the same time, though,
she says that women continued to produce much cloth for domestic use on
the older looms well into the 13th century (even later in Scandinavia).

Yes the Warp weighted looms were used until recent times, might still be ?

(>She then proceded to demonstrate that many of the complex patterned
textiles of this period are possible to make by the individual weaving in
the home, either on a small treadled loom or a warp-weighted loom.

Tredle looms need many shafts to weave complex patterns and I am not sure
that would be viable in a home (where cloth was for oneself only) Warp
weighted are more flexible in that respect and get in the way less in a
small area.

In Italy the guilds appear to have been estabilished earlier so I imagine in
towns at least there was little home production. Rural rules tend to differ
in England at least.


>Essentially her point was that although there was a thriving industry for
manufactured cloth for much of the middle ages, there was also a more
modest and less-talked-about tradition of home production for certain
types of textiles, particularly those for household use.

I think we have to be quite wary of this, whilst very remote areas do have
vestiges of home weaving etc, most textile mass produced would come within
the buying range of most people I think, cheaper than home production could
be. I think location is very important in this respect.

>Loretta added
that this role was still apparent in the 19th century in much of rural
Europe, and likely had continued unbroken for centuries.

If it was unbroken wouldn't we expect to see more evidence of warp weighted
use in other parts of Europe than Scandinavia ? It is hard I think to be
certain what is outwork production and what is home production. The
impression I get is a move away from Warp weighted home (for family)
production, to tredle more industrial production, often in outwork
situations, onto industrial unit (or factory) production, at which point I
think the home tradition could have continued for family use again. This
isn't to say some didn't continue, it is a huge geralisation for all Europe
& I hate generlisations :)

Mel


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 05:23:55 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] 17th c swaddling clothes
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Pictures say more than all of my muddled words *G* and I uploaded a couple of
pix of swaddling. One is a diagram of the swaddling stages and can be found
here:

http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/Temp/swaddling-stages.gif

The other is a photo of a baby doll in 17th c swaddling clothes. Admittedly not
a good photo, but I hope you can make out the beautiful embroidery and lace:

http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/Temp/late17th-fully-swaddled.jpg

I guess after you've seen the diagram explaining the tight wrapping of the
infant with linen bands you'll understand why Sushi would hit me... :-)))

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From: "Kate Cole" 
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Carol wrote: >Subscribers don't keep a magazine afloat, advertisers do.  We 
can think of a lot of people >who will read a magazine, but it will take 
more to convince an advertiser to support it.  If there are options, >an 
advertiser will tend to go with a more established magazine, especially one 
that might appeal to the >general public on the newsstand.  Especially these 
days, when the economy is down. Without advertising, >a magazine either 
needs to be privately funded or have a high price per copy.  And 
unfortunately, while we >like the idea of a costume magazine, many of us 
would rather spend the money on more fabric or getting >to the next event or 
convention.

This isn't necessarily true, it's a very delicate equation. I work for all 
the major magazine publishers in the UK and some of the most successful 
magazines carry very few adverts, but they sell huge numbers of copies. 
Subscriptions are not really part of the equation here, since it is an 
unpopular way of buying a magazine in the UK, unlike in the US where many 
magazines have hundreds of thousands of subscribers (and therefore 
guaranteed sales each month). In terms of advertising, it is also not 
necessarily true that advertisers would rather target a larger market – my 
brother once saw a magazine that was all about fountain pens in his local 
newsagent and asked me how such a magazine could survive. The answer is that 
if a pen manufacturer advertises in a pen-specific magazine, then every one 
of the readers will potentially be interested in his products, whereas with 
a general interest magazine, it may have a much wider circulation but only 1 
in 100 or fewer of its readers will be interested in the the same products. 
So in a costume context, a manufacturer of, say, corset boning or steels 
would likely much rather advertise in a costuming magazine than in Martha 
Stewart Living!  Whether or not they need to advertise is another question – 
it seems that there are so few suppliers for some costuming items that I 
can't imagine they need to advertise as they probably already 'own' their 
entire market sector. There's also the question of overheads and so on. I'm 
not saying a costume magazine of the type discussed could be successful – 
certainly it would be difficult to achieve, but probably not impossible.

A little advertising story I picked up at college – The Sunday Times 
newspaper, which at the time cost £1 and was the most expensive Sunday paper 
by some margin, had so much advertising that the publishers could have given 
it away for nothing and still made a huge profit. BUT, in order to attract 
the kind of readers that the advertisers wanted to be advertising to, it 
needed to charge £1 and therefore put itself in a more 'exclusive' reader 
bracket.




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Oops, sorry, hit 'send' before I signed my name....

Kate (the one who blithered on about magazines for far too long).




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> >A scrumptious book I've not seen mentioned in this discussion (though
> >I've only been skimming) is _The Opulent Era:  Fashions of Worth,
> >Doucet, and Pingat_ by Elizabeth Ann Coleman, which accompanied an
> >exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum.  It has photos of some truly droolworthy
> >creations spanning from 1865-1895 (or so).  It's not cheap,

> >doesn't have the dozens and dozens of examples you'll find in the Dover
> >books
> It does have quite a few, and some really great colour pictures, unlike
Dover.

Oh yes, and the most wonderful wonderful full page and close up images. It's
in the main library here and I just dream about finding it to buy. Now I did
a hunt and couldn't find it under that title in print, but there was a book
with a similar title that was...

And there are little pictures in the mostly text pages that you might not
find elsewhere, one was a little engraving of Christina Nilsson singing that
a friend of mine who is a big fan (I visited Christina's childhood home and
tomb with her last year in Sweden)  hadn't seen before:)

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume


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<< http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=715026111

Stumbled across this on accident while idly looking for fabric...
Gorgeous... ::drools::  And it's really nice that some people actually know
to photograph all the interesting details too!>>

Oh my, oh my oh my oh my... thank you so much for this. I woud have missed
it otherwise, as it is ending in 6 hours or so. You know I could just afford
that right now.... and dammit they do ship world wide... so tempting.....

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 06:52:08 -0600
Status: RO

Like Margo said, absolutely! can high-necked shifts and doublets be worn
together.  I've seen the combination in other pictures.
I'm guessing, from looking at other pictures of the same time (and from
Arnold), that the lighter colored areas near the edges are some sort of
braid or trim.  Perhaps both (as in, some passamenterie [sp? urk...I'm
pre-caffeine stoopid this a.m.], or bobbin lace, placed on *top* of
strips of fabric or trim).  Perhaps in a silver or something (to account
for the lightness of color)? Mind you, I'm just rambling here, throwing
out possibilities....
I think I'll have yo go look at 20,000 Years for a clearer glimpse (my
monitor insists on displaying some things darkly).  I have just the
perfect dark-grey pearls for this....
--Sue, humming happily ;-)

Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:
> 
> You said it: drool-worthy.
> 
> I'm not all that crazy about most late-period stuff usually - too crowded,
> and too heavy. But this one... wow! I don't want to wear black though -
> it'll probably be somewhere around the rust or russet colors. And silk :-)
> 
> Can a high necked smock and doublet be worn together? Because it looks like
> that's what she's wearing, and it's beautiful.
> 
> To answer your question, yes those are clusters of pearls, lots of pearls,
> that's what got me interested in this painting in the first place, before I
> started looking at the gown itself. If I find a bigger picture of her in the
> Medici portraits book, like someone suggested, I'll scan it and put it up on
> the web so you can have a look. It's truly beautiful.
> 
> I love the way everything - waist tabs, sleeve slashes, etc. is edged in
> pale material. I just can't figure out WHAT it's edged with, it almost looks
> like small fabric tabs or (what are those long beads called again?). You
> can't see it from the picture but I see it on my small black and white
> version in 20,000 years of fashion.
> 
> Why do I always have to fall in love with the unknown and impossible to find
> pictures?? ;-)
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 08:54:40 2002
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 06:59:34 -0600
Status: RO

Yeah, it sure is pretty, isn't it?
--Sue, luckily safe on this one as it's not her time period, although a
girl can drool, can't she?....

michaela wrote:
> 
> << http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=715026111
> 
> Stumbled across this on accident while idly looking for fabric...
> Gorgeous... ::drools::  And it's really nice that some people actually know
> to photograph all the interesting details too!>>
> 
> Oh my, oh my oh my oh my... thank you so much for this. I woud have missed
> it otherwise, as it is ending in 6 hours or so. You know I could just afford
> that right now.... and dammit they do ship world wide... so tempting.....
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 09:16:09 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Swaddling clothes was Re: aunt nicole
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:11:41 +0100
Status: RO

Yes, I always understood that swaddling clothes were strips of linen ("all meanly wrapped in swathing bands" as the carol has it - Nahum Tate, late 17th century). See also Georges de la Tour's wonderful painting "Le nouveau-ne" (the best example I could find is at http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?aid=85097&item=143497) where the baby looks like a little Egyptian mummy. The ones in Nicole's pictures seem to be wearing additional garments on top, for warmth and show.
I don't think the swaddling stage ever lasted very long. The Cunnington 17th century book gives approximate ages for the different types of children's clothing, but I don't have it to hand.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From: Jonna Hayden 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Link to Medici portrait
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 07:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

I've actually seen this portrait in a history of the
Medicis,(one of *several* I crawled through, trying to find
out anything about her) where it was larger and black and
white.  The white around the picadills is piping of a sort,
and the dress is actually *not* pure black, it's a black
damask. The forpart is easier to see, and it's a raised
loop white-on-white fabric.

Laudomia was one of two daughters of a Strozzi, and in
celebration of some political coup, she and her sister were
married off to two brothers in the Medici clan.

Does that help any? :)

Jonna, obsessed by this dress several years ago...

 
--- Sue Clemenger  wrote:
> Like Margo said, absolutely! can high-necked shifts and
> doublets be worn
> together.  I've seen the combination in other pictures.
> I'm guessing, from looking at other pictures of the same
> time (and from
> Arnold), that the lighter colored areas near the edges
> are some sort of
> braid or trim.  Perhaps both (as in, some passamenterie
> [sp? urk...I'm
> pre-caffeine stoopid this a.m.], or bobbin lace, placed
> on *top* of
> strips of fabric or trim).  Perhaps in a silver or
> something (to account
> for the lightness of color)? Mind you, I'm just rambling
> here, throwing
> out possibilities....
> I think I'll have yo go look at 20,000 Years for a
> clearer glimpse (my
> monitor insists on displaying some things darkly).  I
> have just the
> perfect dark-grey pearls for this....
> --Sue, humming happily ;-)
> 
> Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:
> > 
> > You said it: drool-worthy.
> > 
> > I'm not all that crazy about most late-period stuff
> usually - too crowded,
> > and too heavy. But this one... wow! I don't want to
> wear black though -
> > it'll probably be somewhere around the rust or russet
> colors. And silk :-)
> > 
> > Can a high necked smock and doublet be worn together?
> Because it looks like
> > that's what she's wearing, and it's beautiful.
> > 
> > To answer your question, yes those are clusters of
> pearls, lots of pearls,
> > that's what got me interested in this painting in the
> first place, before I
> > started looking at the gown itself. If I find a bigger
> picture of her in the
> > Medici portraits book, like someone suggested, I'll
> scan it and put it up on
> > the web so you can have a look. It's truly beautiful.
> > 
> > I love the way everything - waist tabs, sleeve slashes,
> etc. is edged in
> > pale material. I just can't figure out WHAT it's edged
> with, it almost looks
> > like small fabric tabs or (what are those long beads
> called again?). You
> > can't see it from the picture but I see it on my small
> black and white
> > version in 20,000 years of fashion.
> > 
> > Why do I always have to fall in love with the unknown
> and impossible to find
> > pictures?? ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 10:50:17 2002
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:51:31 -0600
Status: RO

Help? Naw....just makes the jones worse! 
So...is the piping running along the very edge, or is it set in a bit?
Thanks for the additional data re: the fabrics, though.  Gives me a
great excuse to keep my eye out for a good brocade.....or two....
--sue

Jonna Hayden wrote:
> 
> I've actually seen this portrait in a history of the
> Medicis,(one of *several* I crawled through, trying to find
> out anything about her) where it was larger and black and
> white.  The white around the picadills is piping of a sort,
> and the dress is actually *not* pure black, it's a black
> damask. The forpart is easier to see, and it's a raised
> loop white-on-white fabric.
> 
> Laudomia was one of two daughters of a Strozzi, and in
> celebration of some political coup, she and her sister were
> married off to two brothers in the Medici clan.
> 
> Does that help any? :)
> 
> Jonna, obsessed by this dress several years ago...
>
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From: Gia_Gavino@attbi.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
Cc: cristin@shaw.ca (Yrsa)
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Subject: [h-cost] An symposium on English Embroidery
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:49:28 +0000
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Greetings!

I was reading in Country Living magazine and happened 
upon a notice about this.  I thought some of you might 
be interested...

Anglicanum is a 5 day symposium and workshop in history 
and technique open to all interested needleworkers.

Offered from 10/27-11/1 at the Hotel Pattee in Perry 
Iowa.

For details about registration and fees you can call 888-
424-4268 or go to www.hotelpattee.com

If this has already been posted, please forgive the 
duplicate posting.

Happy stitchin!

Gia/Giacinta
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: copies and rare books
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:17:13 -0700
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>

The used copies probably wouldn't sell for so much if there were many
illegal photocopies on the market.

Making an illegal copy puts an extra copy of the book on the market/in
the world.  Recyling a used copy doesn't.  That's why copyright law makes
it legal to sell a used legitimate copy of a copyrighted book, but not
make a photocopy.

Fran


> I spoke with one of Interweave's staff editors recently, and he
> commented that a major factor in their deciding to reprint was the
> amazing prices that copies are selling for on the secondhand market.
> (Original price was $35, now going for $100 and up!) The reprint will
> be out sometime in 2003, maybe as soon as March, maybe in the fall --
> they aren't sure yet.
> --
> _---------------------------------------------

Visit our web pages!
Books on historic costume and vintage clothes
http://www.lavoltapress.com
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http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Soliciting interest in providing costumes for a US Art 
 Museum?
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Saragrace knauf wrote:
> 
> 
> So, my question is: Would you consider parting with your best articles
> to have them displayed at the museum?
> 
> This is not a rinky dink outfit, they have one of the best fashion
> collections in North America. http://www.phxart.org/
> 
> So, anyway let me know what you think about the whole idea and contact
> me offline if you are interested in participating.
> Obviously this idea is just in its  conceptual stage, but I'd like to
> have a few names to hand them if they decide to do it.
> 
> Saragrace
> 

I came into this late, that's what I get for going on vacation.  As long
a the museum understands that these costumes are in many ways are our
babies, and any damage done to them will be paid for with blood, and
body's buried in the night.  I have no problem lending them some of
mine.
-- 
Stephen Bergdahl - Lord Vich
www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm

Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com
Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings 
Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 13:49:29 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: copies and rare books
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> I spoke with one of Interweave's staff editors recently, and he
> commented that a major factor in their deciding to reprint was the
> amazing prices that copies are selling for on the secondhand market.
> (Original price was $35, now going for $100 and up!)

So where are these folks when it comes to Herald's "Renaissance Dress in
Italy" :)
 I've been looking for 5 years, I've missed out on 3 copies and couldn't
force myself to buy the one at Moe's for $295.00, which of course, is long
gone.  Why isn't this author getting reprinted?  How do I start the
campaign?

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none:
be able for thine enemy rather in power than use,
and keep thy friend under thy own life's key:
be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..."
W. Shakespeare
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Laning" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 10:22 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: copies and rare books


> A success story, BTW: Interweave Press is FINALLY planning to reprint
> Bishop Richard Rutt's _A History of Hand Knitting_, the "bible" of
> people interested in historical knitting. It's been out of print for
> about ten years now and a lot of historical needleworkers / costumers
> are interested in it.
>
> I spoke with one of Interweave's staff editors recently, and he
> commented that a major factor in their deciding to reprint was the
> amazing prices that copies are selling for on the secondhand market.
> (Original price was $35, now going for $100 and up!) The reprint will
> be out sometime in 2003, maybe as soon as March, maybe in the fall --
> they aren't sure yet.
> --
> _________________________________________________________
> O    Chris Laning
> |     
> +    Davis, California
> _________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 14:09:24 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Boucher book available
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:06:16 -0700
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Someone was asking about this book??

I have a copy of Boucher 20,000 YRS OF FASHION in my new Fall catalog.

Contact me off list if interested.


Fred Struthers
--
Books on Cloth
  a catalog of out-of-print and hard-to-find books
  on costume, textiles and related subjects

distributor, RL Shep Publications
--
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: maternity wear in the 19th century
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:35:09 +0100
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Further to the maternity wear conversation, I'm reading Penelope Byrde's "Nineteenth-Century Fashion" at the moment and came across the following last night: 






















"An exaggerated sense of modesty about bodily functions made pregnancy [during the Victorian period] a topic of some secrecy and maternity clothes were very rarely discussed or illustrated in print."
































Then, in a discussion of bridal trousseaus, she goes on to say: "If a bride was wise, she included in her trousseau a number of garments which could be adapted for maternity wear, such as easy-fitting morning gowns, wrappers or peignoirs, loose indoor jackets, shawls, mantles and - later in the century - tea gowns or tea jackets. Women's magazines were reticent on the subject and when references were, in fact, made to maternity clothing ladies were usually described as being 'in a delicate state of health', 'invalids' or simply, 'young matrons'. Young matrons were expected to be as discreet and dignified as possible. It was not always possible to disguise the condition but it could be camouflaged so as not to attract the attention of the opposite sex or young, unmarried girls who were ignorant of the facts of life. However, contemporary evidence suggests that Victorian women were more active during pregnancy than might be supposed and many carried on their social engageme!
nts until a few weeks before the confinement."
















"In order to avoid notice, ladies were generally recommended to keep in line with current fashion and alter existing garments rather than adopt ones which were too obviously designed and made for the specific purpose of pregnancy. This was also more economical as the clothes could often be altered back to their original state when the pregnancy was over (and it may account for the comparatively small number of maternity dresses to survive in museum collections). During the first two decades of the century the fashion for a high waistline and very light stays favoured the pregnant woman but problems arose when the waistline began to lengthen and tighten in the 1830s, making it difficult for a woman to hide her changing shape. For informal, indoor and morning wear she could manage with a loose-fitting, plain gown or type of wrapper and by the 1850s and 1860s it was also possible to wear unshaped indoor jackets over a blouse and skirt. Afternoon and evening dress was less ea!
sy to adapt and usually required the camouflage of a shawl. When large, square shawls went out of fashion in the 1870s lace shawls and mantles were accepted as an alternative. Outer wear presented very little problem as shawls, mantles and cloaks were fashionable for most of the period."




"Although the line of dress became very narrow in the late 1870s and 1880s the last quarter of the nineteenth century allowed more latitude in maternity wear. The Princess line and polonaise dresses without a break at the waist were less restricting and a thickening waist could be lost beneath the layered effect of skirt drapery and apron fronts. Dresses with separate bodices were often adapted for maternity wear by using false waistcoat fronts and plastron effects. Jeannette Marshall who married and was pregnant in 1892 added jabots of lace, chiffon and ribbon bows with long streamers to the bodices of some of her dresses. With the advent of tea gowns in the late 1870s semi-formal and formal evening wear for pregnant women became easier and by the early 1890s the tea gown could be worn for dinner at home. The loose fit and highly trimmed nature of the tea gown and tea jacket made them particularly suitable for maternity wear and no doubt their very decorative, even seduc!
tive image did much for the morale of the wearer."


Sorry if this repeats anything that's already been said, I just thought it was interesting. I know I've also seen a picture recently of a bodice that had lacing up the front at either side to allow for an expanding waistline, but I can't find it anywhere. 


Kate 























































































































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Subject: [h-cost] the dread Herjolfsnes thing?
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Sorry guys,
    I keep hitting the wrong button and sending
without getting anything written.  Chris Laning
mentioned the dreaded Herjolfsnes thing as a dress
that was comfy.  Pattern?  I now have three women
attemting to get into garb and none of use are into
the same period.
    I've also been scoping out the recommended links
and will throw in that all the non-gusset t-tunics I
made when the SCA was only a few years old riped out
under the arms until I put in gussets.
     I'll ask again, is there a link for the Medici
portrait that we're drooling over.  The reproduction
that came up was really really drool-worthy but my
server is still sending me viruses with my
attachments.
Even a book reference to the black and white photo
would ber helpful.
                        Cassandra (who has a graduate
student library card at the U of Illinois at
Urbana-Champaign and has been interlibrary loaning and
shelf reading the most interesting things lately)
 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 16:10:04 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] the dread Herjolfsnes thing?
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:08:39 -0400
Status: RO

Um, sorry. That was originally supposed to be a private e-mail to Robin
Netherton, but what the hey, I expect others are interested too.

Briefly, Robin is of the (rather well justified IMHO) opinion that people have
passed around one interpretation of just _one_ of the patterns for a long gown
from Herjolfsnes (also known as the 10-gore gown or "bog dress" which is
something of a misnomer) as if it were "THE" medieval gown pattern. She
believes that people have misunderstood its construction and have used it as
the basis for a lot of highly speculative stuff (including characterizing it
as "the cotehardie").

I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff about this in the archives, since it comes
up periodically.

(Robin, did I get this more or less right?)

At the moment, I'd really rather discuss 13th-century fashion than go over the
Herjolfsnes discussion for the umpteenth time, if nobody minds.

____________________________________________________________
0  Chris Laning
|  
+  Davis, California
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 16:33:46 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the dread Herjolfsnes thing?
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:28:53 -0500 (CDT)
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On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 claning@igc.org wrote:

> Briefly, Robin is of the (rather well justified IMHO) opinion that
> people have passed around one interpretation of just _one_ of the
> patterns for a long gown from Herjolfsnes (also known as the 10-gore
> gown or "bog dress" which is something of a misnomer) as if it were
> "THE" medieval gown pattern. She believes that people have
> misunderstood its construction and have used it as the basis for a lot
> of highly speculative stuff (including characterizing it as "the
> cotehardie").
> 
> I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff about this in the archives, since it
> comes up periodically.
> 
> (Robin, did I get this more or less right?)

Yup. You were at K'zoo the year I presented this, right?

This topic came up on the SCA's Usenet group a few weeks ago, and
someone called me in to answer questions. If there's interest, I'll repost
my comments here, but only if there's anyone who hasn't already heard my
push-the-button rant. As Chris says...

> At the moment, I'd really rather discuss 13th-century fashion than go
> over the Herjolfsnes discussion for the umpteenth time, if nobody
> minds.

I'll get back to you on the 13th-c. thing, Chris -- gotta go help kids
with homework.

--Robin

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        The message was blank.  What were you writing?  I am halfway
thinking of making one.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 17:32:55 2002
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From: "Saragrace knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] the dread Herjolfsnes thing?
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:20:32 -0700
Status: RO

It would be helpful to tell folks what period you (all?) are into to
allow them to make recommendations.

Here is the link to the picture I put on my website
www.saragrace.net/images/laudomia.jpg a few days ago if this is the one
you are referring to.


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 17:55:49 2002
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: 
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:46:23 -0400
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Yes, Robin, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Herjolfsnes gowns.
Since I didn't know hardly anything about clothing or fashion evolution
when I heard it the first time, it will probably make a lot more sense
to me this time. Hopefully this time it will stick! 

And, since we've all had to deal with the interminable OT discussions
about the care and feeding of babies, it would be really, really nice to
hear about costuming for a while. Sorry, I don't mean that to sound so
harsh. 

Thank you,

Linda 




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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 18:50:59 2002
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Swaddling clothes was Re: aunt nicole
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:47:30 +0100
Status: RO

I saw a demonstration (on a doll!) of Tudor swaddling at Kirby Hall last 
year, by The Tudor Group.

The first items of clothing were a nappy (diaper), a shirt and a cap. 
With these on, the baby went inside a little slip, like a pillowslip or 
cotton sleeping bag, keeping its arms in.  A band was pinned to the top 
of the cap and crossed over and pinned on the chest of the slip, to help 
support the head.  Then come the strips of linen to bind him all up snug 
and cosy.

One of the things the demonstrator mentioned was that modern parents 
might be aghast at the use of straight pins, but the point is the baby 
cannot reach or wriggle enough to stick himself on any of them.  From 
the comments about modern swaddling in blankets, I gather it isn't 
fixed, so the baby can unwrap itself.

A child-rearing manual of the time also recommends the child should be 
changed and re-swaddled up to 14 times a day.  How often do modern 
parents change a newborn's nappy?  The swaddling was "quick-release", so 
this wasn't difficult.

As to why it developed - babies find it comforting, and it keeps them 
under control and safe from banging themselves on things or grabbing 
things. There does seem to be plenty of evidence that swaddled babies 
are soothed and tend to sleep - and if you have to tie him on your back 
and go out to work in the fields, that is a big help.  There was one of 
those "Ancient Engineering" programmes a while back where they were 
moving the stone blocks to build Inca pyramids - they got everyone in 
the local village to help drag them, and there was a woman, in 
traditional dress (and hat - I love those hats!) with baby tied in a 
shawl across her back, while she helped pull on the rope.

Jean


Kate M Bunting  wrote
>Yes, I always understood that swaddling clothes were strips of linen 
>("all meanly wrapped in swathing bands" as the carol has it - Nahum 
>Tate, late 17th century). See also Georges de la Tour's wonderful 
>painting "Le nouveau-ne" (the best example I could find is at 
>http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?aid=85097&item=143497) where the 
>baby looks like a little Egyptian mummy. The ones in Nicole's pictures 
>seem to be wearing additional garments on top, for warmth and show.
>I don't think the swaddling stage ever lasted very long. The Cunnington 
>17th century book gives approximate ages for the different types of 
>children's clothing, but I don't have it to hand.
>
>Kate Bunting
>Library, University of Derby
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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-- 
Jean Waddie
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:08:35 +0100
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Melanie Wilson  wrote
>>At the same time, though,
>she says that women continued to produce much cloth for domestic use on
>the older looms well into the 13th century (even later in Scandinavia).
>
>Yes the Warp weighted looms were used until recent times, might still be ?
>
>(>She then proceded to demonstrate that many of the complex patterned
>textiles of this period are possible to make by the individual weaving in
>the home, either on a small treadled loom or a warp-weighted loom.
>
>Tredle looms need many shafts to weave complex patterns and I am not sure
>that would be viable in a home (where cloth was for oneself only) Warp
>weighted are more flexible in that respect and get in the way less in a
>small area.
>
>In Italy the guilds appear to have been estabilished earlier so I imagine in
>towns at least there was little home production. Rural rules tend to differ
>in England at least.
>
>
>>Essentially her point was that although there was a thriving industry for
>manufactured cloth for much of the middle ages, there was also a more
>modest and less-talked-about tradition of home production for certain
>types of textiles, particularly those for household use.
>
>I think we have to be quite wary of this, whilst very remote areas do have
>vestiges of home weaving etc, most textile mass produced would come within
>the buying range of most people I think, cheaper than home production could
>be. I think location is very important in this respect.
>
I was wondering whether there was a time difference for weaving the 
complex patterns, that you could do it at home but would have to 
individually manipulate the threads, whereas a big treadle loom could be 
set up with the different shafts.  So a poor household, which had to 
spend its time working on subsistence, still wouldn't have the complex 
textiles, while a rich household might have bought them or might have 
made them as a "hobby" or refined women's work?

Jean


>>Loretta added
>that this role was still apparent in the 19th century in much of rural
>Europe, and likely had continued unbroken for centuries.
>
>If it was unbroken wouldn't we expect to see more evidence of warp weighted
>use in other parts of Europe than Scandinavia ? It is hard I think to be
>certain what is outwork production and what is home production. The
>impression I get is a move away from Warp weighted home (for family)
>production, to tredle more industrial production, often in outwork
>situations, onto industrial unit (or factory) production, at which point I
>think the home tradition could have continued for family use again. This
>isn't to say some didn't continue, it is a huge geralisation for all Europe
>& I hate generlisations :)
>
>Mel
>
>
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] the dread Herjolfsnes thing?
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On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Linda Rice wrote:

> Yes, Robin, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Herjolfsnes gowns.
> Since I didn't know hardly anything about clothing or fashion
> evolution when I heard it the first time, it will probably make a lot
> more sense to me this time. Hopefully this time it will stick!
> 
> And, since we've all had to deal with the interminable OT discussions
> about the care and feeding of babies, it would be really, really nice
> to hear about costuming for a while. Sorry, I don't mean that to sound
> so harsh.

Guilty as charged ... though we did stick something about swaddling into
most of those posts!

Below is a post I made recently on rec.org.sca, after someone asked me to
come over there to answer questions that had come up on a thread about
"the Greenland gown." People were also asking where I'd be lecturing and
whether the material was published, so I responded to those questions too.
The gown comments are further down. (I fixed one phrase for clarity and
cut a paragraph about addressing replies -- I post to Usenet from a munged
address.)

----------------------

From: Robin Netherton
Subject: Re: On Garb 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 2002-09-12 22:39:44 PST 
 

I got an email from Marian telling me about this thread, so I figured I'd
hop on over and speak for myself. I don't normally read this 'group, so I
don't see discussions over here unless someone tells me to come look. In
general, if someone needs something from me, you're welcome to contact me
directly. (Marc and Susan, who have posted on this thread, know me and
talk with me fairly frequently, so I'll let them vouch that I don't bite.)

I'm skimming through the whole thread, and I'll try to answer what I can,
though it will be a bit out of order.

Marc and Susan are among the people who have heard me talk on the
relevance of the Greenland gowns to the study of medieval mainland
European fashion. I gave a paper on that topic at the International
Congress of Medieval Studies at Kalamazoo in May 2001. Since then, I've
presented an expanded version of that paper several times as a guest
lecturer for SCA groups in such places as Idaho, New Jersey, and Colorado.  
I've got a couple more such lectures tentatively lined up for the next
year, but I'd better wait till they're finalized before I announce
anything.

I also have posted a sizable quantity of musings about these garments to
the historic costume email list. I've been meaning for a while to collect
up those postings and put them on my website, along with some similar
collections I already have on some other topics. I will do this as soon as
I get a free evening to put the material together, but that probably won't
be for a few weeks.

As to publication: Susan was correct in part when she wrote:

> The impression I've gotten from Robin about publishing online has a
> lot to do with the inability to secure permission to use photos of
> artwork without having to spend big bucks. Many of her presentations
> are heavily dependent on artwork, with much of the rest being heavily
> dependent on hands-on work.

There are a handful of topics I am able to write up with a minimum of
visuals. Still, I do not wish to self-publish these because (as those of
you who are academics will understand) I effectively eliminate my chances
of journal publication if I do so. Once I do publish in a journal, I am
free to make the material as available as possible. The last time I
published a paper, I offered it for reprinting in _TI_ shortly thereafter
(thanks, Susan!), because so many of the people asking for copies were in
the SCA. That was the article on Norman gown cut in last winter's issue. 

I have high hopes of publishing my Greenland research. Right now, a
proposal for the article is sitting, um, on a desk or in a file cabinet or
somewhere in the office of a journal whose editors have yet to get back to
me about whether they might actually *do* something with it. I hope to
know soon, one way or the other, so I can send it elsewhere if necessary.
So, I do hope to see it out, but I can't promise when.

Although I am not free to post a version of the paper, I certainly can
talk informally about my research, and continue to lecture about it. And,
as I said, now that I know there's sufficient interest, I promise to
collect my informal (non-referenced, non-peer-reviewed) postings on my
website. Soon, really.

In the meantime, here's some of what I wrote to Marian via email this
morning, in response to specific questions that came up on this thread:

 -- Of the 32 gowns found in the Greenland cache, 27 were made with front
and back body pieces plus some number of gores. None of these was closely
fitted the way people think of when they say "cotehardie" in the SCA. All
were designed to be pulled on over the head.

 -- The construction most often published, which SCA members often call
the "10-gore" gown, actually has 12 gores. However, only three of the
Greenland gowns were cut with a 12-gore construction. One, #45, was quite
loose and unshaped. The others, #38 and #41 (the ones you most commonly
see reproduced), were shaped somewhat closer to the body but were not
closely fitted. The number of gores does not correlate with the degree of
closeness; some of the other dresses with fewer gores were actually
closer-fitting (though still not tight).

 -- Gender determination is dicey on many of the Greenland garments. For
#41, though, we have reasonably good evidence (based both on its
proportions and its likely correlation to its corpse) that it was a man's
garment. The Museum of London book is the first source I know to present
it as a woman's, and it gives no explanation or evidence for that claim,
which goes directly against all previous discussion of this garment. From
my discussions with Museum of London staff, I am guessing this was an
unfortunate mistake. When made up, #41's long arms and torso and short
waist-to-hem length make it essentially impossible to fit a woman as a
full-length gown, but quite well-proportioned as a calf-length gown on a
man -- in particular, a man of the height (5 feet 5 inches) and build
(slim and wiry) suggested by the remains found with #41.

 -- #38 is the only 12-gore garment that is apparently a woman's, again
with reasonable certainty based on several points of evidence. However,
this gown is actually quite loose on the torso, as the center gores start
at about bust level.

 -- Neither #41 or #38 resembles the "artist's rendition" in the Museum of
London book, which shows a shapely fitted dress of the type that normally
requires a laced or buttoned opening down the length of the torso.

 -- It is physically possible to use the 12-gore construction to create a
fitted dress, by adding a center front opening and tightening it on the
various seams. Many people in the SCA have done this with agreeable
results. However, there is no reason to believe this was ever done in the
Middle Ages. They certainly weren't doing it in Greenland. On the
mainland, there are more effective cuts to achieve the fashionable fitted
shape, and in some cases there is at least pictorial evidence to support
these other cuts. There is no evidence for the mainland use of the
multigore cut for any structural purpose, though it's reasonable to
conjecture that it may have been a legitimate variation for some of the
unfitted gowns of the 13th and early 14th century.

 -- The use of a large number of gores does not seem to be a desirable or
popular approach, even in Greenland. The 12-gore cut may well have been a
workaround for narrow fabric. The fabric on H.38 appears to have been
about 18 inches wide, rather narrower than that in most of the other gowns
in the cache. It thus may simply have required extra gore pieces to make
up the desired width.

 -- Norlund's diagrams are not reliable for use as patterns. They do not
always match up accurately with his written measurements and descriptions,
and they produce garments that are visually much more fitted than the
photos of the actual finds would indicate.  Plus, many later books that
reproduced Norlund's diagrams simplified the shapes of the pieces, and are
thus even less reliable. That means that people who have tried to work out
the layout and the construction of the 12-gore gown based on Norlund's
diagram alone, or based on a revised secondary publication of Norlund's
diagram, generally come up with something far more complex than the style
demands. Internal evidence suggests that the actual garment was probably
cut using methods no different from what is considered standard for well
before the 14th century. The idiosyncratic pieces are a result of shaping
on the body, not initial complex cutting methods. They do not reflect a
new fashion, and they do not correlate with the late-14th-century
development of fitted dresses on the mainland.

There is quite a bit more -- the lecture in its current form takes most of
an hour -- and I am not going to recite it all here. But these are the
high points.

--Robin

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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] the dread Herjolfsnes thing?
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:15:27 -0400
Status: RO

Thank you Robin! I appreciate your taking the time to send this. 

(FWIW, I thought the stuff on swaddling was fascinating, and I /really/
liked the picture of Mel with her daughter in a sling on her back!)

Regards,

Linda




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From: Jonna Hayden 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Link to Medici portrait
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:29:40 -0700 (PDT)
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The piping is indeed on the edge of the picadills and the
edge of the skirt.  

Jonna, who will *not* detour into this dress for 12th
Night---!!! I already have a 1561 Venetian gown I'm working
on... :)

--- Sue Clemenger  wrote:
> Help? Naw....just makes the jones worse! 
> So...is the piping running along the very edge, or is it
> set in a bit?
> Thanks for the additional data re: the fabrics, though. 
> Gives me a
> great excuse to keep my eye out for a good brocade.....or
> two....
> --sue
> 
> Jonna Hayden wrote:
> > 
> > I've actually seen this portrait in a history of the
> > Medicis,(one of *several* I crawled through, trying to
> find
> > out anything about her) where it was larger and black
> and
> > white.  The white around the picadills is piping of a
> sort,
> > and the dress is actually *not* pure black, it's a
> black
> > damask. The forpart is easier to see, and it's a raised
> > loop white-on-white fabric.
> > 
> > Laudomia was one of two daughters of a Strozzi, and in
> > celebration of some political coup, she and her sister
> were
> > married off to two brothers in the Medici clan.
> > 
> > Does that help any? :)
> > 
> > Jonna, obsessed by this dress several years ago...
> >
> _______________________________________________
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From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" 
To: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late 13th-c fashion?
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:28:25 -0400
Status: RO

 Greetings--
>
> > "Christian de Holacombe" lives in the city of Exeter
> > in the last
> > quarter of the 1200s. So what shape(s) are currently
> > in fashion for
> > outer tunics? Sleeve width and style? General type
> > of fit? Locations
> > of gores? Underarm gussets? Etc. etc. Due to wealth
> > and contacts,
> > she's not going to be too far behind the fashions of
> > London.
>

>From what I understand, she's likely to be wearing a loose, flowing tunic
with tight lower sleeves--probably laced (or sewn in) at this point, but the
trend will eventually be towards buttons. She may wear a sleeveless surcote
over that--it would not yet have the deep side holes of the later sideless
version. A belt, if worn, would likely be worn inside the surcote.

Since the clothing is flowing, I have surmised from looking at other flowing
clothing (for example, the Greenland garments being discussed in another
current thread) that it is likely to have both side and center gores , with
the side gores probably going all the way up to the armpit. Gussets are a
good guess as well.  The surcote could be patterned the same way, although
it might not need the center gore--sleeveless surcotes generally look better
if the extra fabric is all at the sides.

The trend in the early 14th century will be to gradually start tightening
the flowing dress through the body, keeping the gored skirt, towards the
fitted irtle/cotehardie look. The tight lower sleeves are ept, and
eventually the entire sleeve is fitted.

Susan

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late 13th-c fashion?
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Oh, I'm so glad Susan jumped on this, because I was going to refer Chris
to her anyway. Susan is one of the two real 13th century experts in my
acquaintance. (Henk is the other.)

So I'll add some brief notes to "what she said."

I'd take a close look at any art you can find from your target date/place.
The resources that come to mind for me are around 1300, which may be too
late for your "last quarter of the 13th c." But by 1300, there's clearly
been a huge shift from the narrow torsos of the 12th century to the other
extreme, a loose tunic/cotte/gown. 

I would not suppose a set-in sleeve at this time; I think you've got to
wait till the 1330s before you see the true form (sine-curved sleeve top
into curved armscye). So, it's gussets under the arms still, or upper
sleeves cut in a wide enough angle that it serves the purpose of a gusset.
You do see some pretty deep-cut sleeves in sources like the Manesse Codex.
The upper sleeves are quite loose.

By contrast, by 1300 the sleeves over the forearm are pulled quite close
to the arm. They may be just sewn as snug as you can fit your hand
through, but there are written references to sewing the sleeves closed,
and also I think you'll find some lower-sleeve buttons introduced by now,
though I'd have to check the exact wheres and whens. (Tomb brasses help
with this.) So I would suggest a fitted lower arm. Make the sleeve a bit
longer than needed, and when you tighten the lower arm, the loose part of
the upper sleeve will blouse over the elbow. In some manuscripts it looks
as though it's an elbow-length sleeve over a same-colored garment with a
tighter sleeve, but what you're seeing is the blousing -- when the same
people are shown with arms bent or raised, the movement of the arm takes
up the slack. This kind of sleeve can be quite comfortable.

My approach for doing this is to make the sleeve tapered down from the
shoulder to wrist, but not to cut a slit in the sleeve at the lower end.
Just pull the excess into a long flap along the lower arm, fold it over
flat, and sew the fold in place (or have buttons positioned here, I
suppose). You'll want to play around with the angle and position of that
flap.

For that body fullness, let me build on what Susan wrote:

> Since the clothing is flowing, I have surmised from looking at other
> flowing clothing (for example, the Greenland garments being discussed
> in another current thread) that it is likely to have both side and
> center gores , with the side gores probably going all the way up to
> the armpit.

I have had very good luck in placing the gores *higher* than the armpit.
Make them tall triangles, reaching just a few inches short of the seam at
the top of the shoulder, and sew them to the body piece before adding the
sleeve. Then treat the body + side gore as a single unit when adding the
sleeve. Yes, that means sewing the straight edge of the sleeve to the
slight angle where the gore meets the body. (This, to me, is the beginning
of the development of the curved armhole.) I don't have physical proof for
this approach, but (1) it works, and (2) it fits neatly into the
progression of technical approaches we see between the 12th and 14th
centuries. I would rather not go into further detail about that issue at
this time, because I will probably present it coherently at some point.
(Susan saw me draw this on a napkin once, and I swore her to secrecy ;-) )

> The trend in the early 14th century will be to gradually start
> tightening the flowing dress through the body, keeping the gored
> skirt, towards the fitted irtle/cotehardie look. The tight lower
> sleeves are ept, and eventually the entire sleeve is fitted.

The development of the tightly fitted upper arm was shocking and
unprecedented in Western medieval fashion. This is something that modern
historians tend to overlook, because we're used to seeing upper arms.
But showing the shape of this part of the body was a daring leap at that
time, and certainly one of the aspects of fitted fashion that made it so
scandalous.

Chris, you might consider going over to the "75years" group at Yahoo; they
focus specifically on the period 1250-1325, and there's a lot of expertise
on that list.

--Robin


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Sep 24 23:37:48 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] tie-in sleeves
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:34:21 -0500
Status: RO

I have a question that has been rattling around in my brain for awhile and
since I thought of it while reading this list (for once), I thought I'd ask
you all! When did tie-in sleeves start and end? I know they were used in
late 16th cent., as that's my period, but when did someone get the bright
idea that you could just tie in the sleeves and swap them around for a new
look? And when did the practice fade out of fashion?


**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
Bristol,
BRF FOF

So many books, so little time

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************


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From: "Kala Jathos" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] eBay: 1876 Cream Wedding Dress
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:42:12 -0700
Status: RO

Phew!  I was afraid noone would see it in time. :}  But it ended up going 
for $500!  Amazing dress...

Oh, and I was curious, so I looked at the seller's other items, then at 
their "About Me" page... They've got some absolutely AMAZING things for sale 
on their website at  www.kickshawproductions.com   there's a lovely green 
and white striped ball gown that I would love to copy... Absolutely 
gorgeous.  And they've got some great publications up both on the site, and 
on eBay.  I'd buy it all, if I wasn't just about completely broke...

::sigh::
But a girl *can* dream, anyway. ;)

-Laura

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 25 01:08:29 2002
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From: "Wanda Pease" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: copies and rare books
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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:05:51 -0700
Status: RO

Boydell and Brewer, the company that is bringing you the Museum of London
books were looking into reprinting this book as well as the Gothic Europe
book about a year ago.  Maybe if enough people whine to them.  Even if the
original color plates weren't up to snuff, the books themselves are
wonderful!

Regina Romsey

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Angela Lazear-CRC
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 10:47 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: copies and rare books


> I spoke with one of Interweave's staff editors recently, and he
> commented that a major factor in their deciding to reprint was the
> amazing prices that copies are selling for on the secondhand market.
> (Original price was $35, now going for $100 and up!)

So where are these folks when it comes to Herald's "Renaissance Dress in
Italy" :)
 I've been looking for 5 years, I've missed out on 3 copies and couldn't
force myself to buy the one at Moe's for $295.00, which of course, is long
gone.  Why isn't this author getting reprinted?  How do I start the
campaign?

angela
+++++


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>So a poor household, which had to
spend its time working on subsistence, still wouldn't have the complex
textiles,

I think the poorer you were the simpler your textiles are likely to be (due
to cost either weaving oneself or buying it), if you bought them in, but in
many places and periods clothing was 'payment' for certain services and what
was once a nobs gown could become a poorer persons gown (or remade to
something else if loads of fabric in it) later in its life. An amazing
example of fine cloths where you'd not expect them is in Iron Age Salt mines
at Halstatt, wrapped around tool handles !

>while a rich household might have bought them or might have
made them as a "hobby" or refined women's work?

I've not heard of weaving as a hobby, but I've not looked into it either,
embroidery and the like more decorative work would be. Tredle looms being
heavier, would seem a poor choice for a refined lady, but that is gut
reaction not backed up by anything other than I know tredle loom work is
said to have moved into the male domain industrially due to the weight. BUT
this could be a modern cultural perception and interpretation, and women in
some places & times are extremly muscular......Oh dear can of worms !!!

Mel


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Swaddling clothes was Re: aunt nicole
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>How often do modern
parents change a newborn's nappy

When it is needed :) IMR about every 2-4 hours

>As to why it developed - babies find it comforting, and it keeps them
under control and safe from banging themselves on things or grabbing
things.

I'm not convinced mine would have found it comforting, clothing was a major
hate for them :)

A baby of that age is not really out of control (or am I misunderstanding
you ?) You plonk it somewhere it can't get far :) Which limits the baging &
grabbing too as I remember.... They do like beads though :) Mine loved
playing with my Anglo Saxon glass beads

> There does seem to be plenty of evidence that swaddled babies
are soothed and tend to sleep -

Do you have any refs ?

> and if you have to tie him on your back
and go out to work in the fields, that is a big help.

Again from personal experiance of using a cloth to tie my babies to me
(initially for re-enactment, but once I started it was very useful & much
more comfortable than a built haness) They are calm , still & happy just
being close to you as the cloth makes them. My kids have never wriggles
about and caused problems when attached to me.

I regularly tended my horses and did loads of manual labour with them
attached :) I've even gorge walked (not with the cloth but with a protective
harness designed for such things) with no wiggles that troubled me, actually
they barely move & sleep most of the time.

Mel
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Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Reproductions of Vintage Linens
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A lady wrote to me asking where to find reproductions of antique linens.
Her letter is below.  This is out of my league.  So if you can help her,
please write her directly.  Her email is at the bottom of the letter.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
****************************************************************************
**************
----- Original Message -----

I am the tourism director for Dickson County, TN. One of the wonderful
stores downtown sells vintage linens. She does not have a computer and has
asked me to get a catalog from you. She is interested in getting
reproduction linens. Will you please let me know what I need to do to get a
catalog? Thanks!


Lacy Beasley

Dickson County Chamber of Commerce

119 Highway 70 East

Dickson, TN 37055

(615) 446-2349




------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C2643F.6B6E4060
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A lady wrote to me asking where to find reproductions of =
antique=20
linens.  Her letter is below.  This is out of my league.  =
So if=20
you can help her, please write her directly.  Her email is at the =
bottom of=20
the letter.


 


Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume =
Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =

http://www.costumeclassroom.com<=
/A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co=
m


****************************************************************=
**************************



----- Original Message -----=20

 




 


Lacy=20
Beasley


Dickson County=20
Chamber of Commerce


119 =
Highway 70=20
East


Dickson, TN=20
37055


(615) =

446-2349


 


------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C2643F.6B6E4060--

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Reproductions of Vintage Linens
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:14:43 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

As far as I am aware, and I know quite a lot about linen (particularly from
Ireland) there is no such thing as reproduction linen around. Apart from that I
wonder what she means with 'reproduction linen'.

Nicole

 --- Penny Ladnier  wrote: > A lady wrote to me
asking where to find reproductions of antique linens.
> Her letter is below.  This is out of my league.  So if you can help her,
> please write her directly.  Her email is at the bottom of the letter.
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> ****************************************************************************
> **************
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> I am the tourism director for Dickson County, TN. One of the wonderful
> stores downtown sells vintage linens. She does not have a computer and has
> asked me to get a catalog from you. She is interested in getting
> reproduction linens. Will you please let me know what I need to do to get a
> catalog? Thanks!
> 
> 
> Lacy Beasley
> 
> Dickson County Chamber of Commerce
> 
> 119 Highway 70 East
> 
> Dickson, TN 37055
> 
> (615) 446-2349
> 
> 
> 
>  

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:36:11 -0700
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I've made a number of dead greenlander dresses/tunics and I find this
interesting. I have always interperted them as being relatively loose.  They
fit at the shoulders and usually at the bust line, but are loose from there
downward. If I want them to look fitted, I wear a belt. I did make one that
fits fairly closely to me (and I can still get it over my head) but that is
only because I gained some weight after I made it.

I like them because I can easily make a nice looking dress out of less
yardage then any other pattern I've tried.  And it is easy to draw up a
pattern with a few simple measurements.  And because they aren't
formfitting, if I gain or loose a few pounds it doesn't matter (mostly).

Is there any actual evidence that they were used ouside of Greenland?  or is
all guessing and maybes?

Susan Courney

>  -- It is physically possible to use the 12-gore construction to create a
> fitted dress, by adding a center front opening and tightening it on the
> various seams. Many people in the SCA have done this with agreeable
> results. However, there is no reason to believe this was ever done in the
> Middle Ages. They certainly weren't doing it in Greenland. On the
> mainland, there are more effective cuts to achieve the fashionable fitted
> shape, and in some cases there is at least pictorial evidence to support
> these other cuts. There is no evidence for the mainland use of the
> multigore cut for any structural purpose, though it's reasonable to
> conjecture that it may have been a legitimate variation for some of the
> unfitted gowns of the 13th and early 14th century.


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Subject: [h-cost] Irish Linen (was Reproductions of Vintage Linens)
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 --- N Kipar  wrote: >
 and I know quite a lot about
> linen (particularly from
> Ireland)
> 
> Nicole


Nicole please share? I've heard oohs and ahhs about
the quality of Irish linen, but nothing more
substantial than that. And now I have a
mother-in-law-to-be living in Ireland, and it's just
too much of a temptation.... :)


Bella

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Wow!

I wish I had the money to buy this.
Just these tree dresses are alredy so beautifull.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=716523924

Greetings,
        Deredere

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>Mel wrote:
> I think the poorer you were the simpler your textiles are likely to be
(due
> to cost either weaving oneself or buying it), if you bought them in,
but in
> many places and periods clothing was 'payment' for certain services
and what
> was once a nobs gown could become a poorer persons gown (or remade to
> something else if loads of fabric in it) later in its life.


This is the origin of the nursery rhyme:

"Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, the beggars are coming to town.
Some in rags, and some in tags, and some in velvet gowns".

Freyalyn 

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>Mel wrote:

> I think the poorer you were the simpler your textiles are likely to be (due

> to cost either weaving oneself or buying it), if you bought them in, but in

> many places and periods clothing was 'payment' for certain services and what

> was once a nobs gown could become a poorer persons gown (or remade to

> something else if loads of fabric in it) later in its life.





This is the origin of the nursery rhyme:



"Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, the beggars are coming to town.

Some in rags, and some in tags, and some in velvet gowns".



Freyalyn


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>
"Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, the beggars are coming to town.
Some in rags, and some in tags, and some in velvet gowns".

What rhymn is that and Nationality I don't know it ?

Mel

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>
"Hark, hark, the dogs =
do bark, the=20
beggars are coming to town.
Some in rags, and some in tags, and some =
in=20
velvet gowns".


 


What rhymn is that and Nationality I =
don't know=20
it ?


 


Mel


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It's an English nursery rhyme, and like many, there are various stories
as to what it refers to and when it dates to.

Some say it dates to the Plague Years, when whole villages were wiped
out and their survivors, peasant and noble, reduced to begging, or
peasants helping themselves to fine clothes when the nobles died.

Or to the reign of James I (England) VI (Scotland), who apparently
mocked the Scottish nobles who followed him down to London for being
country-bumpkinish.

Again, it could refer to the Dissolution of the Monasteries by Henry
VIII, when monks and abbots were turned out onto the roads, many of whom
had not observed their vows of poverty.

I think it simply refers to periods when there were lots of beggars
around (pick your period of English history, pick any period of English
history), and people got so fed up of handing out alms to beggers that
they dug around in the old clothes chest - "oh, this old thing, it
belonged to Great Uncle Edward, it'll never come back in fashion, don't
like the colour, can't be bothered to remake, give it to that beggar out
there and tell him to get lost!!"

Freyalyn, not too busy at work this morning (can you tell?)



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<-----Original Message----->
> 
> From: Melanie Wilson
> Sent: 9/25/2002 10:19:08 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
> 
> 
> >
> "Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, the beggars are coming to town.
> Some in rags, and some in tags, and some in velvet gowns ".
> 
> What rhymn is that and Nationality I don't know it ?
> 
> Mel
> 


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It's an English nursery rhyme, and like many, there are various stories as to what it refers to and when it dates to.



Some say it dates to the Plague Years, when whole villages were wiped out and their survivors, peasant and noble, reduced to begging, or peasants helping themselves to fine clothes when the nobles died.



Or to the reign of James I (England) VI (Scotland), who apparently mocked the Scottish nobles who followed him down to London for being country-bumpkinish.



Again, it could refer to the Dissolution of the Monasteries by Henry VIII, when monks and abbots were turned out onto the roads, many of whom had not observed their vows of poverty.



I think it simply refers to periods when there were lots of beggars around (pick your period of English history, pick any period of English history), and people got so fed up of handing out alms to beggers that they dug around in the old clothes chest - "oh, this old thing, it belonged to Great Uncle Edward, it'll never come back in fashion, don't like the colour, can't be bothered to remake, give it to that beggar out there and tell him to get lost!!"



Freyalyn, not too busy at work this morning (can you tell?)






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<-----Original Message----->

>  

> From: Melanie Wilson

> Sent: 9/25/2002 10:19:08 AM

> To: h-costume@indra.com

> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?

> 

> 

>  >

>  "Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, the beggars are coming to town.

> Some in rags, and some in tags, and some in velvet gowns ".

>  

> What rhymn is that and Nationality I don't know it ?

>  

> Mel

> 


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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Reproductions of Vintage Linens
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Like we always say, on this list, what vintage?  Mid-Victorian?  Late 
Victorian?  Edwardian?  Vogart?

>A lady wrote to me asking where to find reproductions of antique 
>linens.  Her letter is below.  This is out of my league.  So if you can 
>help her, please write her directly.  Her email is at the bottom of the letter.
>
>Penny Ladnier
>Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
>http://www.costumegallery.com
>http://www.costumeclassroom.com
>http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>******************************************************************************************
>----- Original Message -----
>
>I am the tourism director for Dickson County, TN. One of the wonderful 
>stores downtown sells vintage linens. She does not have a computer and has 
>asked me to get a catalog from you. She is interested in getting 
>reproduction linens. Will you please let me know what I need to do to get 
>a catalog? Thanks!
>
>
>
>Lacy Beasley
>
>Dickson County Chamber of Commerce
>
>119 Highway 70 East
>
>Dickson, TN 37055
>
>(615) 446-2349
>
>


Kayta

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>It's an English nursery rhyme,=20

But which rhymn I still can't reconise it :)

Mel

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>It's an English nursery rhyme, =



 


But which rhymn I still can't =
reconise it=20
:)


 


Mel


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That's all there is of it. In various slightly different versions, there
is only the two lines. Hardly anything there at all, just the two lines.

Freyalyn



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<-----Original Message----->
> 
> From: Melanie Wilson
> Sent: 9/25/2002 12:06:49 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,
> 
> 
> >It's an English nursery rhyme, 
> 
> But which rhymn I still can't reconise it :)
> 
> Mel
> 


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That's all there is of it.  In various slightly different versions, there is only the two lines.  Hardly anything there at all, just the two lines.



Freyalyn






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<-----Original Message----->

>  

> From: Melanie Wilson

> Sent: 9/25/2002 12:06:49 PM

> To: h-costume@indra.com

> Subject: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,

> 

> 

>  >It's an English nursery rhyme, 

>  

> But which rhymn I still can't reconise it :)

>  

> Mel

> 


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My Mum knows it but thinks there should be more :) She is looking it up =
!

Mel

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My Mum knows it but thinks there =
should be more=20
:) She is looking it up !


 


Mel


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,
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On 9/25/02 7:58 AM, "Melanie Wilson"  wrote:

> My Mum knows it but thinks there should be more :) She is looking it up !
> =20
> Mel
>=20

Here=B9s one explanation:

http://www.innvista.com/brit/rhymes.htm

Jessamyn 

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Re: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,


On 9/25/02 7:58 AM, "Melanie Wilson" <Me=
lanieWilson@bigfoot.com> wrote:




My Mum knows it but=
 thinks there should be more :) She is looking it up !

 

Mel






Here’s one explanation:



http://www.innvista.com/brit/rhymes.htm



Jessamyn




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Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:
> 
> Like we always say, on this list, what vintage?  Mid-Victorian?  Late
> Victorian?  Edwardian?  Vogart?

That was my question, too.  There is Textorics at
http://www.textorics.com/  She seems to have some nice basics that would
be good for many periods, and she'll do them in linen.  They're quite
pricey, but they should be for handwoven reproductions.

Melanie Schuessler
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:43:56 -0400
Status: RO

Watch out for some websites at geocities... they putting Xupiter spyware on
your
computer and it is hell to get off your computer.  I spent three hours last
night trying to get this off my computer... I thought I finally got it off
and here it is back again this morning.

It is called Xupiter and it will change IE toolbars, add popups at anytime
on your computer, (a browser doesn't need to be open for the pop up to
appear out of the blue) and when you click on webpage links, it will send
you to Xupiter's website.  I clicked on links on my website that I knew were
working and it popped up the error message and then sent me to Xupiter's
site.

I did some searching this morning and found out that you have to manually
remove it from DOS.  I'll leave that to the DOS gurus in my house to get rid
of it now.  So here is the link on how to get it off your computer:
http://and.doxdesk.com/parasite/Xupiter.html

I quit and will go to sleep until my gurus get home.  All wasn't lost, I
finally got that stupid Yahoo Companion off of my IE toolbar.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 25 09:06:47 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Reproductions of Vintage Linens
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:11:26 -0600
Status: RO

Actually, I seem to recall running across someone (on a list, natch!
) who was doing handwoven textiles that were supposed to be
reproductions of some historical fabrics.
I also seem to recall that there are a number of sutlers/merchants who
cater to the 18th/19th c. crowds that do various linens, wools, blends,
etc.  The ones I've seen in passing over the years have all been
American, IIRC. Not my time period, though, darnitall.
--Sue

N Kipar wrote:
> 
> As far as I am aware, and I know quite a lot about linen (particularly from
> Ireland) there is no such thing as reproduction linen around. Apart from that I
> wonder what she means with 'reproduction linen'.
> 
> Nicole
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 25 09:34:01 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Reproductions of Vintage Linens
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:32:25 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

Ah, yes, but linen is linen. What I can't understand is the term 'reproduction
linen' if she means 'a homespun ruggedy look' then it isn't necessarily
reproduction but a wannabe-vintag look. If she means historic linen widths, now
that's different, and depends on the period of course. All the linen supliers I
know of (I get all my linen from Ireland via a chap here in England) make/sell
modern linen widths and not narow ones.

Nicole

 --- Sue Clemenger  wrote: > Actually, I seem to recall
running across someone (on a list, natch!
> ) who was doing handwoven textiles that were supposed to be
> reproductions of some historical fabrics.
> I also seem to recall that there are a number of sutlers/merchants who
> cater to the 18th/19th c. crowds that do various linens, wools, blends,
> etc.  The ones I've seen in passing over the years have all been
> American, IIRC. Not my time period, though, darnitall.
> --Sue
> 
> N Kipar wrote:
> > 
> > As far as I am aware, and I know quite a lot about linen (particularly from
> > Ireland) there is no such thing as reproduction linen around. Apart from
> that I
> > wonder what she means with 'reproduction linen'.
> > 
> > Nicole
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 25 10:17:10 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,
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Re: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,Hmmm....That's interesting.  =
I'm familiar with those lines from the completely wonderful children's =
book _The Thirteen Clocks_ by James Thurber.  Since most of the story =
has a rhyme-y lilt to it, I thought they were original.   hmmmm.

Marie

"Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, the beggars are coming to town.
Some in rags, and some in tags, and some in velvet gowns".



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Re: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,






Hmmm....That's interesting.  I'm familiar with those lines =
from the=20
completely wonderful children's book _The Thirteen Clocks_ by James=20
Thurber.  Since most of the story has a rhyme-y lilt to it, I =
thought they=20
were original.   hmmmm.


 


Marie


 


"Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, the beggars are coming to =
town.
Some in=20
rags, and some in tags, and some in velvet =
gowns".



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N Kipar wrote:
> 
> Ah, yes, but linen is linen. What I can't understand is the term 'reproduction
> linen' if she means 'a homespun ruggedy look' then it isn't necessarily
> reproduction but a wannabe-vintag look. If she means historic linen widths, now
> that's different, and depends on the period of course. All the linen supliers I
> know of (I get all my linen from Ireland via a chap here in England) make/sell
> modern linen widths and not narow ones.
> 
> Nicole

I think what she means is "Linens" as in Table Cloths, tea towels,
napkins, dresser scarfs...
-- 
Stephen Bergdahl - Lord Vich
www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm

Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com
Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings 
Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 25 11:53:12 2002
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Boy do I love eBay!

For those interested in period jewelry (always the perfect accessory
:)) ;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1563769168

I would love this catalogue but it will probably get out of my current
budget range anyway so have fun folks!

Catherine
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Regarding Jacqueline Herald's and Margaret Scott's "History of Dress" 
series:
> Boydell and Brewer, the company that is bringing you the Museum of
> London books were looking into reprinting this book as well as the
> Gothic Europe book about a year ago.  Maybe if enough people whine to
> them.  Even if the original color plates weren't up to snuff, the
> books themselves are wonderful!
> Regina Romsey

Whining probably won't help. At least in Ms. Herald's case, they are 
having major difficulty tracking her down. She's not dead as far as 
they can tell, but seems to be working somewhere they can't reach 
her. I suspect the thing holding them back is getting the copyright 
permission at this point as they seem to know that there's a market 
out there for it. 

That doesn't mean that we can't politely request them, so they know 
we're *still* out here. (Well, you guys. I got them when they came 
out the first time, fortunately.)

Kat Russell


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Mel wrote: 
> I think the poorer you were the simpler your textiles are likely to be
> (due to cost either weaving oneself or buying it), if you bought them
> in, but in many places and periods clothing was 'payment' for certain
> services and what was once a nobs gown could become a poorer persons
> gown (or remade to something else if loads of fabric in it) later in
> its life. An amazing example of fine cloths where you'd not expect
> them is in Iron Age Salt mines at Halstatt, wrapped around tool
> handles !

According to Barber in _Women's Work: The first 20,000 years" she 
says that sometimes the women would weave some pretty fascinating 
things. Since they were stuck indoors for prolonged periods often 
times, they whiled away the hours doing complicated needlework and 
weaving like we would sit in front of a TV set. Often times they 
would have friends who would be there with them, often times helping 
with the weaving or working on their own stuff. Apparently, that sort 
of thing didn't go away until the Industrial Age. 

> I've not heard of weaving as a hobby, but I've not looked into it
> either, embroidery and the like more decorative work would be. Tredle
> looms being heavier, would seem a poor choice for a refined lady, but
> that is gut reaction not backed up by anything other than I know
> tredle loom work is said to have moved into the male domain
> industrially due to the weight. BUT this could be a modern cultural
> perception and interpretation, and women in some places & times are
> extremly muscular......Oh dear can of worms !!!

If you look at the various paintings, manuscripts and tapestries of 
the middle ages and renaissance, they frequently show women at work 
weaving, often times with someone else there with them for company. 
It's one of the sources of information for loom historians. (And the 
Renaissance ones are not simple vertical tapestry looms or warp 
weighted looms either.)

Kat Russell


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cheapside Hoard catalogue
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Inter Library Loan.... :-)

Cheers Catherine!

BTW I own a copy of the ring on the top left corner.

Nicole

 --- Catherine Kinsey  wrote: > Boy do I love eBay!
> 
> For those interested in period jewelry (always the perfect accessory
> :)) ;
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1563769168
> 
> I would love this catalogue but it will probably get out of my current
> budget range anyway so have fun folks!
> 
> Catherine
> _______________________________________________
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=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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"Hmmm....That's interesting.  I'm familiar with those lines from the
completely wonderful children's book _The Thirteen Clocks_ by James
Thurber.  Since most of the story has a rhyme-y lilt to it, I thought
they were original.   hmmmm."

        I am sure that the rhyme was in a children's book called The
Rainbow In The Sky that my sister had many, many years ago.  There were
quite a few two or four line nursery rhymes

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
----__JNP_000_40ea.5b03.5668
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"Hmmm....That's interesting.  I'm familiar with those lines from =
the=20
completely wonderful children's book _The Thirteen Clocks_ by James=20
Thurber.  Since most of the story has a rhyme-y lilt to it, I thought =
they=20
were original.   hmmmm."


 


        I am sure that the rhyme =
was in=20
a children's book called The Rainbow In The Sky that my sister had =
many,=20
many years ago.  There were quite a few two or four line nursery=20
rhymes


 


Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender


----__JNP_000_40ea.5b03.5668--

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        Thank you Penny, the DOS instructions are really very simple.  Of
course, I started out on computers that had almost no memory and
everything had to be entered by tape recorder or by typing in BASIC.  I
have also forgotten most of what I knew back then, but even I can handle
two line instructions.  Only warning I have is "be very sure you type it
exactly as show".  One dot in the wrong place or one space where there
should be one can cause you to get error messages.  Anyhow, Thanks again.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
----__JNP_000_21f9.7a88.27c5
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        Thank you Penny, the DOS=20
instructions are really very simple.  Of course, I started out on =
computers=20
that had almost no memory and everything had to be entered by tape recorder=
 or=20
by typing in BASIC.  I have also forgotten most of what I knew back =
then,=20
but even I can handle two line instructions.  Only warning I have is "=
be=20
very sure you type it exactly as show".  One dot in the wrong =
place=20
or one space where there should be one can cause you to get error=20
messages.  Anyhow, Thanks again.


 


Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender


----__JNP_000_21f9.7a88.27c5--

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> Whether or not they need to advertise is another question –

The Internet has reduced magazine and newspaper sales of ads considerably,
particularly ads placed by small businesses and individuals.  Advertising on the
net is a lot cheaper.  Small businesses who never would have been able to afford
one full-color full-page ad placement in a national magazine, can now display as
many color web pages as they want, all the time, for the modest cost of a
monthly ISP fee.  Individuals who would have sold off a few extra collectibles,
or whatever, and taken out an ad in the local paper, can now get better exposure
for their items cheaply on ebay, newsgroups that allow ads, etc.

I don't know about foreign magazines. But in the US many magazines (and
newspapers) have long relied on advertising to cover printing costs.  (An
exception is the publications of organizations and clubs, which may be funded
mostly by membership fees.)  The reduction in advertising revenue  is causing
problems for some, particularly since a money-making model for online-only
magazines has not really been established.

Fran

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Subject: [h-cost] reed bents and whalebone
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I am looking for documentation of reed bents and whalebone *prior* to 
1550. If you have any hard documentation (quotes from the period, 
inventories, import records, archeology bits/pieces), I would love to 
see them.

I already have Corsets and Crinolines, QEWU (and the other Janet 
Arnold books which show the later stuff), but I need information from 
pre-1550 (preferably pre-1540 if possible.)

Thanks.

Kat Russell


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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Swaddling clothes was Re: aunt nicole
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Mel,

I did not intend to imply in this post that I knew anything about 
babies, I have never had any and never intend to.  In terms of 
references, I was drawing mainly on the discussion in this thread where 
most people seemed to find their children were comforted by being 
blanket-swaddled, also comments on them flinging their arms around.  And 
I do have experience of the fascination of hair, beads, spectacles... 
which I thought could be a problem, but obviously you have found 
otherwise.

Jean



Melanie Wilson  wrote
>>How often do modern
>parents change a newborn's nappy
>
>When it is needed :) IMR about every 2-4 hours
>
>>As to why it developed - babies find it comforting, and it keeps them
>under control and safe from banging themselves on things or grabbing
>things.
>
>I'm not convinced mine would have found it comforting, clothing was a major
>hate for them :)
>
>A baby of that age is not really out of control (or am I misunderstanding
>you ?) You plonk it somewhere it can't get far :) Which limits the baging &
>grabbing too as I remember.... They do like beads though :) Mine loved
>playing with my Anglo Saxon glass beads
>
>> There does seem to be plenty of evidence that swaddled babies
>are soothed and tend to sleep -
>
>Do you have any refs ?
>
>> and if you have to tie him on your back
>and go out to work in the fields, that is a big help.
>
>Again from personal experiance of using a cloth to tie my babies to me
>(initially for re-enactment, but once I started it was very useful & much
>more comfortable than a built haness) They are calm , still & happy just
>being close to you as the cloth makes them. My kids have never wriggles
>about and caused problems when attached to me.
>
>I regularly tended my horses and did loads of manual labour with them
>attached :) I've even gorge walked (not with the cloth but with a protective
>harness designed for such things) with no wiggles that troubled me, actually
>they barely move & sleep most of the time.
>
>Mel
>This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
>it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
>the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
>this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
>Company, unless specifically stated.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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-- 
Jean Waddie
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Subject: [h-cost] 18th century corset, large
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:20:48 +0200
Status: RO

Hi there!
I wondered if any on this list, might have some good advises about making
corsets to large persons.
I have a costumer with a bust meassure of 49 inches waist meassure of 41
inches.
Do you think i should use Drea's corset generator and then adapt the pattern
to 18th century?
Jean Hunniset has a corset pattern to fit a large person, but it is not
historically correct, but perhaps i could adapt this also?
What do you think?
I have never made anything for a large person before.
She wanted a large panier, but i advised her to have a medium sized one, i
think it would not look good with a huge panier on a large person,
Any suggestions/ advises  would be greatly apreciated.
Thanks

Bjarne


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        I meant to say one space where there should NOT be one.  So much
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From: Margo Anderson 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset, large
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:24:05 -0700
Status: RO

Hi Bjarne:

I don't have any experience with the 18th century, but I have made many
16th and 19th century corsets for large ladies.  The largest had a 76" (193
cm) bust!

The main thing I've found you need to watch out for is that larger ladies
tend to be much more compressible, so you may have to reduce the overall
dimemsions somewhat to accomodate it. 

Also, don't let them get caught up in wanting too much reduction.  It makes
very little difference in the final appearance of a 45" waist if you corset
it down to 38" or only to 40", but it can make a huge difference in comfort
and strength of materials.

You could try Drea's pattern generater.  I made it up for myself several
years ago, and it worked well except for, as mentioned above, my being more
compressible.  I believe I took an additional 2-3" (5-8 cm) off both the
bust and waist. 

Margo


"One Tough Costumer"


See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com
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From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset, large
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:50:53 +0300 (EEST)
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

> I have a costumer with a bust meassure of 49 inches waist meassure of 41
> inches.
> Do you think i should use Drea's corset generator and then adapt the pattern
> to 18th century?
> Jean Hunniset has a corset pattern to fit a large person, but it is not
> historically correct, but perhaps i could adapt this also?
> What do you think?

I have made a 18th century corset for a young woman with bust measurement
of 112cm and waist of 98cm and it wasn't draftingwise very different from
making a smaller one. I always make a 'muslin' of corsets, so the first
fitting still leaves room for changes. I consulted various books, mostly
Waisted Efforts and Corsets and Crinolines. My way of drafting is similar
to the one in WE, though not 100% same.
What I guess I'm saying is that I'm completely sure the drafting will go
fine with you, even if you have no experience with plus size people.

Like Margo said, larger ladies tend to be a bit more compressable than
thinner ones. With the 18th century corset for the lady this meant that
the bust of the fitting version was slightly too large for the period look
(but easily fixed). It's also good idea to measure the back width
carefully as it's easy to measure it to be too wide and this measurement
does not change as much as one might think.

> She wanted a large panier, but i advised her to have a medium sized one, i
> think it would not look good with a huge panier on a large person,

Actually, it's often the other way around (unless she is very short): a
large person needs somewhat larger skirts (panier, farthingale, hoopskirt)
than thinner person in order to have similar silhuette. But of course it
is important not to go overboard.

If you are good with drawing figures, you can try different panier sizes
that way. Best but rather work intensive way is making a 'muslin' of the
panier in couple of sizes.

-- 
Lynoure Rajamaki
lynoure@tuug.fi
a costume maker in Finland

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 25 15:55:06 2002
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From: 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:53:45 -0400
Status: RO

Thurber uses it in _The Thirteen Clocks_ (a truly wonderful book!) but it's a
lot older than that. I actually ran across an original at one point but can't
remember where.

(Mind like a lint trap: lots of interesting fluff, no idea where any of it
came from....)

====================================

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:15:08 -0500 mls  wrote:

> Re: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm....That's interesting.  I'm familiar
> with those lines from the 
> completely wonderful children's book _The
> Thirteen Clocks_ by James 
> Thurber.  Since most of the story has a
> rhyme-y lilt to it, I thought they 
> were original.   hmmmm.
>  
> Marie
>  
> "Hark, hark, the dogs do bark, the beggars are
> coming to town.Some in 
> rags, and some in tags, and some in velvet
> gowns".



____________________________________________________________
0  Chris Laning
|  
+  Davis, California
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 25 16:05:55 2002
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Dear Margo and Ella.
Thankyou soo much for your very usefull informations.
May i ask, "Waisted Efforts" is this a book with patterns?
Is it available today?

Bjarne


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 25 16:42:02 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] It's an English nursery rhyme,
From: sylvia 
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:23:16 -0600
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on 9/25/02 1:53 PM, claning@igc.org at claning@igc.org wrote:

> Thurber uses it in _The Thirteen Clocks_ (a truly wonderful book!) but it's a
> lot older than that. I actually ran across an original at one point but can't
> remember where.

Off topic, I know, but Thurber's The Wonderful O is also a fantastic book.
I think it and the 13 Clocks were my favorite children's books (besides
Charlotte's Web).

Sylvia R

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] reed bents and whalebone
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote:

> I am looking for documentation of reed bents and whalebone *prior* to
> 1550. If you have any hard documentation (quotes from the period,
> inventories, import records, archeology bits/pieces), I would love to
> see them.

Back when I was working on my first lecture on the wheel farthingale, I
jotted down this crucial note: "Whalebone did not come into use before
around 1580." That would have been England, and presumably I was talking
about farthingales/hoops specifically. For some reason, I didn't write
down the source, probably because I was working on a fashion from past
that point, and it was sufficient that I had confirmed that whalebone was
around by then -- I wasn't concerned about when it had arrived. Later,
when I adapted that lecture into an article, I went back to my sources to
find where that note came from. And I couldn't find it! It's somewhere in
the Johns Hopkins University Library. Beyond that, who knows? And I have
no idea of whether it's accurate.

> I already have Corsets and Crinolines, QEWU (and the other Janet
> Arnold books which show the later stuff), but I need information from
> pre-1550 (preferably pre-1540 if possible.)

You might try the Henry VIII inventory. The first volume (the transcript)
was published a few years back. I have a copy, as do Drea and Danielle,
but I can't really spare the time to plough through it for you. The
inventory dates from 1547. A scan through the index shows no mention of
bents, reeds, corsets, farthingales, or petticoats, though there are many
kirtles and gowns, and there may be listings that are relevant that I
didn't look up (the index is long and detailed, and it refers you to
individual entries by number). Perhaps this is worth an ILL -- or you can
ask Drea or Danielle if they have already taken a close look. The book
costs $200, so it's not exactly an impulse buy. (OK, I bought mine on an
impulse. It's not even my period.)

--Robin

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From: Claire Clarke 
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Subject: [h-cost] Late 13th c fashion
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:04:28 -0700
Status: RO

Well I wrote this yesterday and it bounced. The topic has been well
covered
by Susan and Robin, but they didn't say anything about headresses, so
I'm
hoping this might still be slightly relevant...:-)
Chris Laning wrote:

> At 9:52 AM -0500 9/23/02, Robin Netherton wrote:
> >On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 Debs48064229@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >>  Earlier undergarments were a lot simpler - none of the side
inserts or
> >>  triangular pieces under the arms.
> >
> >I think that's an oversimplification -- but one I hear a lot, so I
> >wouldn't be surprised if it's in some sources this way.
> >
> >Earlier garments (both over and under, as far as we have evidence)
often
> >do have gores (side inserts in the body) and/or gussets under the
arms (or
> >equivalent expansion in the sleeve piece) or other fiddly bits.
>
> Which reminds me -- I've been meaning to ask you for some "fashion
advice"!
>
> "Christian de Holacombe" lives in the city of Exeter in the last
> quarter of the 1200s. So what shape(s) are currently in fashion for
> outer tunics? Sleeve width and style? General type of fit? Locations
> of gores? Underarm gussets? Etc. etc. Due to wealth and contacts,
> she's not going to be too far behind the fashions of London.
>
> You've frequently commented about "the narrower sleeves of
> such-and-such decade" so I thought you might have some ideas. So far
> I've either been making heavily gored tunics (like the Dreaded
> Herjolfsnes thing) because they're comfortable and flattering, or
> else plain old T-tunics with square underarm gussets, side & center
> gores and sleeves about 16 inches wide.

In the last quarter of the 13th century the main fashion developments on
the
previous part (ie a lot of stuff was roughly similar) were: the surcoat
(espec
sleeveless) tended to be worn unbelted, with the fullness draping
elegantly
from
the chest (I suspect the cottes underneath were probably belted, but of
course
you can't see that); the headresses got wider; the sleeves got tighter
on the
lower arm and were sometimes buttoned closed; the necklines got slightly
wider.

Any sort of gored or rectangle/triangle tunic construction is probably
okay,
espec if
you throw a sleeveless surcoat over the top. Here is what I do for a
headress
if
I want to look specifically from the end of the 13th century: I stuff
all my
hair into
my crispinette (snood, hairnet, whatever you want to call it) so it
sticks out
on both sides (a la Princess Leia)  - I have enough hair to do this,
others may
need
to stuff it with something else as well - then I take the fillet from my
fillet
and
barbette, wrap it around the wide part of head & hair. Then I take my
wimple,
drape it under my chin and again over the wide part and then pin it on
top
(your
head is starting to look like a big triangle by now) and then drape my
veil
over the
top (and pin it to wimple/fillet).

Claire



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Subject: [h-cost] London House Sale - Contents of
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Hi All!
In an idle moment I went to see what was new at the Sotheby's site.  For
those of you lucky enough to be in London, Sotheby's is auctioning off the
contents of :

Fulbeck hall, a Lincolnshire house sale in London
Sale W02930 | London, Olympia
Session 1 | 8 Oct 02, 10:00 AM.
Session 2 | 8 Oct 02, 02:00 PM.

There is lots of clothing, fans, lace, needlework, needlework tools, etc as
well as some cool-ish furniture.  Some of the clothing etc price estimates
seem reasonablesque 100-150 GBP (and higher of course).

If nothing else - its fun to browse.

marie

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From: Claire Clarke 
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:19:16 -0700
Status: RO

Okay, for the last week or so I've been getting some messages off the
list
with the text 'attached' rather than fully visible. It's not a proper
attachment,
but a little box I have to click in to get the body of the email. It's
not
all the messages, just some, but it's really really annoying. Does
anyone
know what I (or the senders) might have done to make this happen and
how to make it stop? I use Netscape 4 fwiw.

Ta muchly,
Claire

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset, large
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:45:42 -0700
Status: RO

Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
> 
> Hi there!
> I wondered if any on this list, might have some good advises about making
> corsets to large persons.  I have a costumer with a bust meassure of 49 inches waist meassure of 41
> inches.   Do you think i should use Drea's corset generator and then adapt the pattern
> to 18th century?  Jean Hunniset has a corset pattern to fit a large person, but it is not
> historically correct, but perhaps i could adapt this also?
> What do you think?  > I have never made anything for a large person before.
> She wanted a large panier, but i advised her to have a medium sized one, i
> think it would not look good with a huge panier on a large person,
> Any suggestions/ advises  would be greatly apreciated.
> Thanks
> 
 Bjarne

Mantua Makers pattern go up to about a 49 inch bust, and a very good. 
I've used them a number of times.  They have a 1720-1790 stays pattern. 
You can get it at Five Rivers, among others.

http://www.5rivers.org/estore/

Don't know if it can help, but one nevers knows.

-- 
Stephen Bergdahl - Lord Vich
www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm

Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com
Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings 
Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing
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From: Heather Rose Jones 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the dread Herjolfsnes thing?
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:06:44 -0700
Status: RO

At 12:36 AM -0700 9/25/02, Susan wrote:
>I've made a number of dead greenlander dresses/tunics and I find this
>interesting. I have always interperted them as being relatively loose.  They
>fit at the shoulders and usually at the bust line, but are loose from there
>downward. If I want them to look fitted, I wear a belt. I did make one that
>fits fairly closely to me (and I can still get it over my head) but that is
>only because I gained some weight after I made it.
>
>I like them because I can easily make a nice looking dress out of less
>yardage then any other pattern I've tried.  And it is easy to draw up a
>pattern with a few simple measurements.  And because they aren't
>formfitting, if I gain or loose a few pounds it doesn't matter (mostly).
>
>Is there any actual evidence that they were used ouside of Greenland?  or is
>all guessing and maybes?

The best book for looking at comparisons of cuts from this general 
era across various cultures is:

Nockert, Margareta.  1997.  Bockstensmannen och hans Drakt.  Hallands 
Lansmuseer, Boras.

In answering the question of whether the Herjolfsness styles were 
used elsewhere, you have to narrow down what you mean by the 
Herjolfsness styles, since there is a wide variety of styles found 
there.  Some of the cuts are found in essentially identical form 
elsewhere, some aren't known from actual surviving artifacts anywhere 
else but correspond to styles found in art.  Certainly there _are_ 
geographic trends in approaches to clothing design.  (If you want to 
see a good example of these sorts of trends, compare the set of 
northern European cuts given in Nockert with the characteristic 
medieval North African/Middle Eastern tunic style, which is hard to 
describe clearly in a small space, but really jumps out at you once 
you've seen a few.)

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Kevin + Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] tie-in sleeves
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:39:51 -0400
Status: RO

At 10:34 PM 9/24/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I have a question that has been rattling around in my brain for awhile and
>since I thought of it while reading this list (for once), I thought I'd ask
>you all! When did tie-in sleeves start and end? I know they were used in
>late 16th cent., as that's my period, but when did someone get the bright
>idea that you could just tie in the sleeves and swap them around for a new
>look? And when did the practice fade out of fashion?

You see it a little bit on very informal clothing in the mid-18th century,
but it's pretty much fading out of style by then; the fashion mostly shows
up on older country-people (a painting or two by Greuze); Diderot has a
diagram of a French countrywoman's jacket (1760, I think) with sleeves that
tie on.

Cheers,
Mara
Kevin + Mara Riley

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:19:44 -0500 (CDT)
Status: RO


Picking up some earlier comments from Melanie about what I described of
Loretta Kudlo's paper on the cottage production of linen:

> >She then proceded to demonstrate that many of the complex patterned
> textiles of this period are possible to make by the individual weaving
> in the home, either on a small treadled loom or a warp-weighted loom.
> 
> Tredle looms need many shafts to weave complex patterns and I am not
> sure that would be viable in a home (where cloth was for oneself only)
> Warp weighted are more flexible in that respect and get in the way
> less in a small area.

I don't know how you're defining "complex," as I am not a weaver. Loretta
reproduced towels with several specific medieval patterns using a small
treadled loom. One had a colored diamond-pattern border that she described
as a twill variation of the point-reverse family. She said the design
requires four pattern shafts that today would be done using separate
harnesses -- but that it's also achievable without a multiple-harness loom
by transferring the pattern to shed sticks behind the harness on a
horizontal loom, or below the principal shed on a warp-weighted loom.
Another way (she said) is to raise it by hand on a pick-up stick each time
a pattern thread is thrown. I have no idea what that all means, but I
trust Loretta's expertise in this.

Another sample had a similar diamond pattern woven throughout the cloth,
not just the border. She showed that although this is a more complex
weave, it was also achievable using simple tools, given reasonable skill
on the part of the weaver.

>From her presentation, I gather that there wasn't much of a question about
*whether* some medieval women were weaving domestic textiles at home --
that is, although many women in the later middle ages had access to
commercially woven textiles, there were also plenty who were located far
enough from urban centers that home weaving of utilitarian items (such as
towels) was more economical. The point she was trying to make, as I
understood it, was that so much attention has been given to the commercial
cloth industry that it has been often assumed by historians that home
weaving would be coarse and crude, of little merit and not worth
discussing. Her analysis showed that this is not a reasonable assumption
-- that women with moderate skill and simple equipment could produce
decently fine household textiles. The bulk of Loretta's presentation
focused on exactly what tools, skills, supplies, and time went into her
samples.

(FWIW, the towel with the colored border, 21x37 inches, three-ply warp and
weft, required about 25 hours of spinning and weaving. The
diamond-diapered towel, 20x33 inches, three-ply warp, single-ply weft,
required about 22 hours. The vast majority of that was spinning time. She
also provided figures on the surprisingly large quantity of thread a woman
could spin just by carrying around a drop spindle and distaff and spinning
here and there in spare moments. In fact, she collected part of this data
at the conference -- she spun during social hours and between-session time
as we were hanging out in various lobbies and rooms, and by the time she
gave her paper on the third day of the conference, she had produced 1,100
yards. This was a very compelling demonstration! No wonder so many
medieval illuminations show women carrying spindles and distaffs as they
go about other tasks.)

> >Loretta added
> that this role was still apparent in the 19th century in much of rural
> Europe, and likely had continued unbroken for centuries.
> 
> If it was unbroken wouldn't we expect to see more evidence of warp weighted
> use in other parts of Europe than Scandinavia ? It is hard I think to be
> certain what is outwork production and what is home production. The
> impression I get is a move away from Warp weighted home (for family)
> production, to tredle more industrial production, often in outwork
> situations, onto industrial unit (or factory) production, at which point I
> think the home tradition could have continued for family use again.

Given the existence of smaller treadled looms, I find it easier to imagine
that these would have supplanted the WWL at home, and that the activity of
weaving itself would have remained active, passed from mother to daughter,
in at least some areas, particularly those far from the urban textile
centers. That seems to make more sense than assuming weaving disappeared
from the home front and was restored later.

I know that it was a common error in Victorian scholarship to look at what
"country" people were doing and say, "Gee, that must have been going on
since the Middle Ages" and use it as evidence. I don't think Loretta is
guilty of this sin ;-) She mentioned the 19th century remnants of home
weaving as an oh-by-the-way, not as proof. As I said, I don't gather that
the *activity* of home weaving is seriously questioned; the *quality*
seems to be where the issue lies.

But this is all what I got from Loretta. I am not the expert in this, and
we have just reached the end of *my* knowledge.

--Robin


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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:22:44 -0500 (CDT)
Status: RO


On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Colleen McDonald wrote:

> I'm hoping that someone on the list might be able to point me to a
> source that discusses the width of linen during this period.

Colleen, I passed your question on to Loretta Kudlo, the medieval weaving
researcher I have already mentioned in other posts. Here's what she says:

> Sorry, I don't have a definitive answer to this one.  I wish I did.  
> I, too, have searched in vain for information on linen widths in
> various historical periods and locales.  Everyone agrees on the widths
> of woolen goods in commerce, but linen is neglected in the records.  
> A yard to a yard and a half is probably somewhere in the ballpark, but
> I don't have documentation of it.  Naturally, it would depend to some
> extent on whether the cloth was woven by a professional weaver (in
> which case it would be the standard width for the area and period) or
> at home ( in which case it would be however wide the housewife's loom
> could weave.)

Which is pretty much where we were before, but at least if Loretta says
she hasn't found this information in all her years in this field, you can
probably figure it's not readily available in some source you should have
been able to locate by now. So, for purposes of your competition, you can
probably say "Even the specialists don't know" with some authority.

--Robin


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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] tie-in sleeves
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:08:34 -0500 (CDT)
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On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote:

> I have a question that has been rattling around in my brain for awhile
> and since I thought of it while reading this list (for once), I
> thought I'd ask you all! When did tie-in sleeves start and end? I know
> they were used in late 16th cent., as that's my period, but when did
> someone get the bright idea that you could just tie in the sleeves and
> swap them around for a new look? And when did the practice fade out of
> fashion?

There are pin-on sleeves in 15th c. Flemish art, but I don't recall tie-on
specifically. If I were hunting, I'd look in Italy.

I'm pretty sure I haven't seen detachable sleeves in 14th century England,
France, or Flanders, though lots of costume books would probably tell you
otherwise :-P

--Robin

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Subject: [h-cost] 1875 undergarment detailed questions
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:44:06 -0400
Status: RO

Well

I'm further into my research & planning for my first bustle-era evening gown
& now have a million questions about 1875 undergarments.

1- what is the order (from the skin out) for undergarments?
	I THINK it goes like this:
	stockings (by the way what would they be like - how do they stay up?)
	drawers & chemise or combinations
	corset
	corset cover (camisole)
	petticoats
	bustle  / tournure

2 - chemise (under-corset garment)
what shape, how long?
I'm also thinking of maybe just making combinations as some had suggested,
I'm assuming that the drawer part would be split, not sure of the shape for
the top.
I'd like to have something versatile that I could wear under various
bodices.

2a- corset
I'm planning to make the 1880's corset on page 81 of Corsets & Crinolines
(because I think the 1873 style page 80, doesn't seem streamlined enough
?) - any ideas on the inner & outer fabric, I was thinking of rose coloured
heavy satin for the outside- not sure of the inside fabric

3- camisole (over corset garment)
how long ? what shape neckline & body(same as the chemise?)  I think there
should be lace edging on one or both of the chemise or camisole, which one?
Does this lace edging ever show at the neckline? What kind of lace (I only
want to use natural fibres but I'm not sure how elaborate or wide it should
be?)

4-petticoats
I've seen references to wearing 4-5 petticoats, is this something that was
regularly done? especially for the evening?
I'm assuming they should be white, but what if the gown is dark?

5- bustle/tournure/ruffled petticoat
Which is most authentic, attractive & easy to wear- a petticoat made with
the layers of ever wider ruffles OR a separate bustle or tournure over the
regular petticoats?
Are all of the petticoats made of the same fabric? Which fabric is stiff
enough for the ruffles (on a petticoat or a tournure) to actually hold the
dress fabric out far enough?

Thanks for any information you might have ( or ideas for other books to
check out)

Elizabeth


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Sep 25 23:20:49 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Thanks Robin
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:19:23 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Thanks Robin for the long post on the Greenland
findings.  I don't have a particular period for what
I'm working on as there are 3 women in the house who
all want different time periods and then I have the
19th century stuff I do at the museum.  I also wear
period clothing for mundane activities and the earlier
garments tend to work better.  Is the TI article on
the Norman gown available on-line somewhere?  I just
got done overdyeing some silk and it came out really
well but I only have 5 yards and the earlier garments
seem to cut to a better savings of fabric.
     Obligatory costume question?  How good are the
Norris books on the sketches of period trims?  Can I
embroider a hem with a pattern from one of his
sketches and have it be authentic?
                           Cassandra

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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:28:18 -0600
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Hi, Claire.  I use netscape, as well, and I don't recall seeing anything
like that, some it make be some tweaky setting that we don't have in
common.  Or it may be in the emails I've been skipping .
Could it have anything to do with some folks sending their stuff in
html?
--sue

Claire Clarke wrote:
> 
> Okay, for the last week or so I've been getting some messages off the
> list
> with the text 'attached' rather than fully visible. It's not a proper
> attachment,
> but a little box I have to click in to get the body of the email. It's
> not
> all the messages, just some, but it's really really annoying. Does
> anyone
> know what I (or the senders) might have done to make this happen and
> how to make it stop? I use Netscape 4 fwiw.
> 
> Ta muchly,
> Claire
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Subject: [h-cost] A probable Fix
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:15:05 -0400
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Well after a couple of hours my husband got the Xupiter off my computer.
This is what he did... do a find for Xupiter, this will show where the
master files are located.  Go into explore and delete those files... mine
was located in Program Files.  But it is in other locations hidden.

The Next step you need to be VERY careful because you can really screw up
things if you delete the wrong files.

1. Go to RUN and type in "regedit"
2. This will open your computer register.  This is where all the works for
your computer programs are.  So be CAREFUL here.  If you delete the wrong
file, you could screw up some of your programs on your computer.
3. Click on "edit" from the toolbar, then "find"... type in the word exactly
"xupiter".
4. It will display the files related to xupiter.  Look over the items
displayed before deleting. Highlight them and right click to delete them.

Some ways to put a little higher security on your web surfing in IE browser:
Go to tools/internet options/ then click on the Security tab, click on the
world /internet icon once to highlight it.  Then click on the Custom Level
button.  Disable all the Active X controls.  There are five of them.  Then
click okay.  Disabling the Active X will also prevent you from getting  the
KAK virus.

I downloaded Spybot today.  It really caught a lot of spyware that Ad-aware
didn't.  One  was a spam porn site.  I do recommend that when you open the
Spybot to read the directions.  Go to HELP/index/scanning.  I printed mine
off and then scanned for spyware.  You need the directions to know what to
delete.  Also read the license, because you can delete things that will not
let you back into certain websites.  But most of those, I would never go to
anyways.  I can tell you my computer ran so much faster once we ran the
Spybot.

Good Luck!!!!!!!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

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Subject: [h-cost] Underwear/1875 undergarment detailed questions
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:28:42 +0000
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Try to get your hands on Nancy Bradfield's Costume in detail 1730 - 
1930; it'll answer most of your questions in one place and give you 
visuals.

On Thursday, September 26, 2002, at 02:44  am, Alabaster wrote;

> 1- what is the order (from the skin out) for undergarments?
> 	I THINK it goes like this:
> 	stockings (by the way what would they be like - how do they stay up?)

White and silk for evening,terminating just above the knee.Garters.

> 	drawers & chemise or combinations

Combinations would be a bit early for the time although far more 
comfortable to wear.N.B has several sketches that might inspire you but 
the lovely frilly stuff dates 1908.(Combinations appeared in 
1877.)Chimmy 'n draws are a safer period bet.

> 	corset
> 	corset cover (camisole)
> 	petticoats
> 	bustle  / tournure
>
> 2 - chemise (under-corset garment)

Yep.

> what shape, how long?

N.B gives a length of 38" on an extant example circa the 1850's and a 
version from 1908 is 46" long.They look to be between 2" and 4" below 
the knee in length.

> I'm also thinking of maybe just making combinations as some had 
> suggested,
> I'm assuming that the drawer part would be split, not sure of the shape 
> for
> the top.
> I'd like to have something versatile that I could wear under various
> bodices.

The example for 1877 is a highish yoke,sleeveless (Lace finish forms a 
very small sleeve.)Gussets on the outside of the legs give a slight 
flare to the the leg shape.The crotch is open and buttons closed with 3 
linen buttons.(One on the inside of each leg and the last probably in 
the centre of the crotch.)The top fits the torso but a bit larger and is 
gathered into the yoke.You're not going to get off that easily - you can 
wear a very low necklined chemise or combination under a day bodice 
which wasn't usual for the period.

>
> 2a- corset
> I'm planning to make the 1880's corset on page 81 of Corsets & 
> Crinolines
> (because I think the 1873 style page 80, doesn't seem streamlined enough
> ?) - any ideas on the inner & outer fabric, I was thinking of rose 
> coloured
> heavy satin for the outside- not sure of the inside fabric

Cotton seems to be the standard lining for Victorian corsets.But  am 
sure someone who works with corsets can advise you better than I.
Choose something that absorbes sweat.

>
> 3- camisole (over corset garment)
> how long ?

Depends on the period you're dressing for.Waist length covering the 
corset is good.

> what shape neckline & body(same as the chemise?)

Again is dependent on the event and what you're 'doing'.
Evening attire shows a whole lot more shoulder & bosom flesh than in the 
morning.

> I think there
> should be lace edging on one or both of the chemise or camisole, which 
> one?

Both.Lace,ribbon trim and embroidery were used to decorate underwear a 
lot.

> Does this lace edging ever show at the neckline? What kind of lace (I 
> only
> want to use natural fibres but I'm not sure how elaborate or wide it 
> should
> be?)

Underwear lace by the time you wish to dress for didn't show/conflict 
with the outer garment.
Good quality lace is expensive.Choose what you can afford and like.Check 
out fashion plates from the period to get an idea of scale.Some start at 
1/2" wide for trim and go from there.

>
> 4-petticoats
> I've seen references to wearing 4-5 petticoats, is this something that 
> was
> regularly done? especially for the evening?

Debatable.Thats a lot of fabric to swing around and you'll get 
toasty.Bank on three for comfort.

> I'm assuming they should be white, but what if the gown is dark?

Petticoats come in a variety of colours and traditions or taboos 
associated with the wearing of some.You're not going to wear a ruby red 
silk tafffetta petticoat with a demure deb's evening gown in pale 
primrose.A gown from the 1890's in brown velvet was matched with a 
striped heavy cotton petticoat in navy blue,gold and red.A pale yellow 
green figured silk was paired with a bright orange watered silk.But 
white is safe.

>
> 5- bustle/tournure/ruffled petticoat
> Which is most authentic, attractive & easy to wear- a petticoat made 
> with
> the layers of ever wider ruffles

Consider how long you are going to wear this bustle over time.Investing 
in a more solid contraption may pay off over several wearings and years.

> OR a separate bustle or tournure over the
> regular petticoats?
> Are all of the petticoats made of the same fabric?

No.

> Which fabric is stiff
> enough for the ruffles (on a petticoat or a tournure) to actually hold 
> the
> dress fabric out far enough?

Horsehair.
And its not easy to get these days.
'Thornton's' crinolette,an extant example from your period is of red 
wool and watch spring hoops.(A day bustle.)Another by 'Thompson' is of 
steel bound with cotton tape in white attached to white cotton with a 
red wool lining.(Evening?)Another example sewn into an evening gown is a 
combination of bustle pad-cottonwool on top of a three cane tiered 
bustle dating from 1872-74.

>
> Thanks for any information you might have ( or ideas for other books to
> check out)
>
> Elizabeth

Good luck,

Marcus.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 02:34:49 2002
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From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset, large
In-Reply-To: <001701c264ce$f34dadb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:32:20 +0300 (EEST)
Status: RO

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

> May i ask, "Waisted Efforts" is this a book with patterns?
> Is it available today?

Yes, it has patterns, but mostly it is about drafting those patterns
yourself (step-by-step -instructions).
Their method of drafting is rather versatile: first you draft a sloper of
a person and then modify that to make the corset pattern.


You can find information about it from
http://www.sartorialpress.com/available_book_titles.html (and you can also
order it there)

-- 
Lynoure Rajamaki
lynoure@tuug.fi
http://www.lynoure.com (temporarily offline)

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 03:16:43 2002
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:15:34 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

Claire, could those be mesages by people who use html *SHUDDER* mail? I know
that some do... perhaps we could send out a big PLEASE do NOT use html messages
again. They are bigger in file size and create problems. Maybe that could help?
Just a thought.

Nicole
 
 --- Claire Clarke  wrote: > Okay, for the last week
or so I've been getting some messages off the
> list
> with the text 'attached' rather than fully visible. It's not a proper
> attachment,
> but a little box I have to click in to get the body of the email. It's
> not
> all the messages, just some, but it's really really annoying. Does
> anyone
> know what I (or the senders) might have done to make this happen and
> how to make it stop? I use Netscape 4 fwiw.
> 
> Ta muchly,
> Claire
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Swaddling clothes was Re: aunt nicole
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Nobody seems to have mentioned the Native American papoose so far.  That is
an example of swaddling.  The infants were tied to a board-type arrangement
and often carried on one's back.
-Megan

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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:44:00 +0100
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>White and silk for evening,terminating just above the knee.Garters.

There was some mention of decorated ones too

> drawers & chemise or combinations

>Combinations would be a bit early for the time although far more
comfortable to wear.

Have to disagree  there is nothing in the comfort factor as far as I'm
concerned . Actually for comfort if undertaking vigerous excersise
combinations are more inclined to ride up. Longest continual time in 1870
kit so far is 7 days and I have both combinations & seperates, and choose
the ones that go best with my neckline :)

> corset
> corset cover (camisole)
> petticoats
> bustle  / tournure
>
> 2 - chemise (under-corset garment)

On some bustles you are better to have a petticoat over the top to prevent
wire show which loks tacky

> the top.
> I'd like to have something versatile that I could wear under various
> bodices.

I make my ball combinations or chemise to the same pattern as my ball bodice
or to, but without such severe or any darting & minimal shape this ensures
it dosen't show. Most pattern or example you see are not suitable for ball
wear where the greatest amount of flesh is show. For all other wear I have
various chemises most fit with most outfits, but a handy tip is try chemise
then bodice together before you get fully dressed, it is a real pain to put
you bodice on and see the chemise & have to take layers & layers off :)

>
> 2a- corset
> I'm planning to make the 1880's corset on page 81 of Corsets &
> Crinolines
> (because I think the 1873 style page 80, doesn't seem streamlined enough
> ?) - any ideas on the inner & outer fabric, I was thinking of rose
> coloured
> heavy satin for the outside- not sure of the inside fabric

I would advise going for a white corset as your first (if your only) corset
as it is less likely to show than a coloured one on other projects. I's also
recommend Laughing moon Corset patterns as they give great results
generally, but other may be better depending on your figure. Make sure it is
good strong fabric, minimum of twill or drill (heavy), or better  canvas or
leather, if you intend to use it much. Get Spiral boning. I've made mine so
the bones can be removed but never done so yet. I barely glow let alone
sweat, but natural fibres are correct for the period and will give greater
comfort.

>
>Consider how long you are going to wear this bustle over time.Investing
in a more solid contraption may pay off over several wearings and years.

Bustle make sure it isn't wider than your hips and again get one in strong
fabric, I've seen some sold in shirt weighting !


> Which fabric is stiff
> enough for the ruffles (on a petticoat or a tournure) to actually hold
> the
> dress fabric out far enough?

>Horsehair.
And its not easy to get these days.

Sadly :(

I have one of flannel and another of curtain lining both work fine double
layered and tightly riffles

Mel

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 06:21:45 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: 18th century corset, large
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 06:29:31 -0400
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Bjarne,

    I am a large woman. In fact some of my measurements are beyond your
patron's. I use and recommend to my clients the Mantua Maker 1720-1790 stays
pattern. It is historically accurate, well-engineered, with great sewing
instructions and offers an inclusive multi-sized array that is excellent. In
fact, you can look at the Diderot images of stays and find the exact shape
and silhouette of the Mantua Maker stays. They're spot on.

    I would go the muslin fitting route rather than muck around with
adapting the corset generator for the 18th century style or fiddling with
the Jean Hunniset pattern. The Mantua Maker pattern is correct, right from
the get-go. All you'll have to do is adjust it, as you would have to any
fitted garment, to fit your client precisely, so it becomes a matter of
fitting rather a matter of re-inventing the wheel.

    You can view, and purchase if you like, the pattern through our secure,
online catalogue.

    Oh, BTW, I use this pattern to teach Georgian stays workshops.

Regards
Lorina
Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
supplies
(519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org  email:
info@5rivers.org



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 07:11:47 2002
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Invitation to join the swapsell group
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----- Original Message -----
From: "swapsell moderator" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 2:32 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Invitation to join the swapsell group


>
> Hello h-costume@indra.com,
>
> You've been invited to join the swapsell group
> hosted by Yahoo! Groups, a free, easy-to-use community service.
> By joining swapsell, you will be able to exchange
> messages with other group members, store photos and files,
> coordinate events and more.
>
> This invitation will expire in 7 days.
>
> Here's an introductory message from the group moderator:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Welcome!
>
> In light of the changes at Community Zero, the
> H-Costume Swap and Sell board has relocated here until a
> better home for it can be found.  Enjoy!
>
> Cheers,
> Danielle
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> JOIN NOW, IT'S EASY:
>
> 1) Go to the Yahoo! Groups site by clicking on this link:
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/i?i=hCwCxf6DlSGAkOWlugSzwPaiX_0&e=h-costume%40indra%
2Ecom
>   (If clicking doesn't work, "Cut" and "Paste" the line above into your
>    Web browser's address bar.)
>
> -OR-
>
> 2) REPLY to this email by clicking "Reply" and then "Send"
>    in your email program
>
> If you do not wish to join the swapsell group, please
> ignore this invitation.
>
> SPECIAL NOTE FROM Yahoo! Groups:  Because Yahoo! Groups values your
> privacy, it is a violation of our service rules for moderators to
> abuse this invitation feature. If you feel this has happened,
> please notify us at abuse@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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swapsell moderator  wrote:
> 
> Hello h-costume@indra.com,
> 
> You've been invited to join the swapsell group
> hosted by Yahoo! Groups, a free, easy-to-use community service.
> By joining swapsell, you will be able to exchange
> messages with other group members, store photos and files, 
> coordinate events and more.
> 
> This invitation will expire in 7 days.
> 
> Here's an introductory message from the group moderator:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Welcome!
> 
> In light of the changes at Community Zero, the 
> H-Costume Swap and Sell board has relocated here until a 
> better home for it can be found.  Enjoy!
> 
> Cheers,
> Danielle 
>  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> JOIN NOW, IT'S EASY: 
> 
> 1) Go to the Yahoo! Groups site by clicking on this link:
> 
>   
http://groups.yahoo.com/i?i=hCwCxf6DlSGAkOWlugSzwPaiX_0&e=h-costume%40indra%2Ecom
>   (If clicking doesn't work, "Cut" and "Paste" the line above into your 
>    Web browser's address bar.)
> 
> -OR-
> 
> 2) REPLY to this email by clicking "Reply" and then "Send"
>    in your email program
> 
> If you do not wish to join the swapsell group, please
> ignore this invitation.
> 
> SPECIAL NOTE FROM Yahoo! Groups:  Because Yahoo! Groups values your
> privacy, it is a violation of our service rules for moderators to
> abuse this invitation feature. If you feel this has happened, 
> please notify us at abuse@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 07:48:40 2002
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From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: URGENT Re: [[h-cost] Invitation to join the swapsell group]
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I need the moderator of the swapsell group to REMOVE the address
h-costume@indra.com from the new mailing list.  Because of the way the
invitation was sent, anyone (and everyone) who used the provided link
subscribed THIS list to that list, instead of their individual mailing
address!

If you used the link, you need to go back to yahoogroups.com and join
with your own email address.  Do NOT use the link provided in the
invitation email!

				...eliz, h-cost list admin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 10:16:10 2002
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:52:35 -0500
Status: RO

Inter Library Loan.... :-)

   Cheers Catherine!

   BTW I own a copy of the ring on the top left corner.

   Nicole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am very lucky to have a good ILL system at my local (ie; 3 blocks up
the street) library, and you can place requests online too.  I like to
ILL a new title I haven't seen if I'm thinking of purchasing it.  And
then there are the titles I'm just curious about.  

This list keeps it busy :)! 

Catherine

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Subject: RE: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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From: "Colleen McDonald" 
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:28:31 -0700
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<

Which is pretty much where we were before, but at least if Loretta says
she hasn't found this information in all her years in this field, you can
probably figure it's not readily available in some source you should have
been able to locate by now. So, for purposes of your competition, you can
probably say "Even the specialists don't know" with some authority.

--Robin>>

Thanks, Robin, and everyone else who replied.   Well darn.  At least I can say that
I've consulted the "experts and specialists"!

If I should find anything in the 1340 Florentine Guild statutes that I'm roughly translating from Latin, this list will be among the first to know.

Colleen  




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        I am no longer on AOL, but remember the nasty messages I got
telling me to turn off the HTML when I was on.  Many AOL members are not
given a choice and can NOT turn off the HTML.  Don't be too hard on them,
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        I keep getting the invitation to join over and over.  I HATE
Yahoo and when I went there they didn't recognize the last ID and
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 11:18:47 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 18th century corset, large
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Dear Lorina.
Thanks for your fine informations with the pattern.
I think it will help me a lot to use Mantua Makers pattern for the stays.
I just ordered it from you.
Thanks

Bjarne Drews 


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Subject: [h-cost] Moroccan clothing question - really old message
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:47:50 -0700
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Sorry for this late response. I obviously don't read my H-Cost 
digests often enough.

On Tue, 28 May 2002 @ 13:11:25, Megan McHugh wrote:
>...I was watching "Trading Spaces" last night and one
>episode had the host wearing a Moroccan caftan that was beautiful. It was a
>dark royal blue with white trim, over slim pants.  The trim looked like
>soutache (yep, looked up the spelling on a pack I have around the house)
>wound in circles about two inches across like a spiral, and in between the
>circles was a three-pointed looped tree-like thing pointing towards the hem.
>This trim was on the neckline, both wrists, and a strip across the upper
>abdomen where it looked like it was gathered slightly.  I looked at a caftan
>my mother brought me back from Morocco years ago (made of polyester
>unfortunately)and that one was simple caftan style, like a large rectangle
>folded over at the shoulders and simple seamed up the sides.  This one I saw
>on the TV last night definitely had at least partial sleeves as there was
>definitely a wrist to put the trim on.  There were also wrinkles on the side
>of the dress that looked like it was cut wide.

This tunic is not really a caftan. A real caftan opens up the front. 
This tunic is a jellaba. Jellabas are traditionally cut of simple 
geometric shapes. The body is not particularly wide. And the sleeves, 
generally cut as trapezoids extend from the shoulder to the wrist. 
They have a circular neck hole with a front slit so one can get it 
over the head with several buttons to fasten the opening.

Jellabas are typically men's wear - there are examples going back to 
the early Muslim period in Egypt, i.e., 7th c. CE. Women only began 
them in the Maghreb in the 1930s and 1940s as a sign of liberation 
from the strictures of traditional life and clothing, particularly 
the haik, a Berber/Amazigh woman's garment, a voluminous wrap pinned 
at the shoulders.

Men's jellabas in Morocco tend to be of wool, and for the wealthy 
it's really really soft, fine, high quality wool. Women's are usually 
in synthetic "fashion" fabrics, which didn't look very warm in the 
cold Moroccan winter (i was there in Dec 2000-Jan 2001).

Jellabas are usually made to order. The trim is not soutache, but it 
is a lot like it. It's usually rayon, thin, and braid-like (i forget 
the name for this... middy braid?). Braid is also sewn into the 
shoulder seams as well, and sometimes other seams. Some of the 
decorative trim on the hem, cuffs, and chest is machine chain stitch.

>Also, I was unaware that
>pants were worn with this sort of dress.  The pants and the lower hem had a
>very narrow white trim I did not get a good look at.  Of course, I wanted
>the host to stand still for a moment and put her arms out so I could study
>the outfit, but she did not oblige. Anyone have a link to a line drawing or
>possible construction for this type of outfit?

In Muslim society, women always wear pants under their tunics. In 
modern Morocco these are often just modern "long johns". It would be 
rude, vulgar, offensive, obscene, to go out without pants on.

I'm sure sites with photos of Moroccans will have these garments, 
since it's what most men and women wear out of doors, unless they're 
really modern. If they are really modern, women wear pants, often 
black, and a thigh length jacket, also often black, quite fashionably 
styled, and belted at the waist, not unlike what one might see in New 
York or Paris. You just don't see Moroccan women outdoors in anything 
dress-like or tunic-like that exposes any lower limb flesh, so no 
jellabas without sirwal.

In the southern Morocco where women still wear the haik, they wear 
modern clothes underneath, and many women wore skirts - with sirwal 
underneath, of course. The color of the haik varies with the region 
and changes every few miles. I'm afraid i didn't notice if the wrap 
method was different from town to town. It was in the past, and i 
suspect that it still is. In some regions the haik is navy blue, in 
others black - in both cases with hand decoration that also varies 
with region (embroidery, tiny tasseled fringe, large paillettes); in 
some areas the haik is of commercially made semi-sheer cotton in a 
wide range of colors and patterns.

In the Rif region of the North, women still wear the fouta, a simple 
rectangle of cloth that can be wrapped around the hips, or draped 
over the shoulders or head (often several at one time) - and, of 
course, sirwal underneath. There are regional differences in the 
stripes and end patterns woven into the fouta.

---------------

On Tue, 28 May 2002 @ 19:58:23, Sue Clemenger responded:
>...but there's a book out there (our local and
>university libraries both have copies, IIRC) called "The Art of Arabian
>Costume" (can't remember author, sorry) that might give you some ideas.

Heather Colyer Ross. And it is "just" women's clothes from what is 
now called Saudi Arabia.

>It's an amazing, droolsome book full of all kinds of different
>regional/ethnic styles.

I wouldn't go that far :-) But it is interesting and useful. Do note 
that all the garments are photographed on non-Arabian women - some of 
whom don't wear them quite right - since photographing women violates 
some law in Saudi Arabia, although it's not a true Muslim law. And 
some of the garments are only shown in very fanciful drawings. There 
are also some cutting diagrams.

I'd say that unless you specialize in Near Eastern costuming (as i 
do), the price is too high.

>I *do* have a Folkwear pattern (printed about 10 years ago, so I have no
>idea if this one's still in print) that gives patterns and instructions
>for what it calls an "Algerian suit," with men's and women's
>variations.  There are an open-fronted jacket, a vest, and very
>baggy-crotched pants.  They do not give you the "authentic" names for
>the outfit pieces, although I know I've seen similar pants styles in
>other ME/Mediterranean styles.
SNIP
>The original outfit, on which Folkwear based this pattern, comes from a
>collection at the Costume Institute at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in
>NY, NY.  The original suit was made entirely of wool broadcloth.

It's not traditionally Algerian, exactly, but based on Ottoman 
clothing that was worn in Algeria for maybe 100 years or so. Other 
similar garments around the Mediterranean are also Ottoman in origin. 
Because Folkwear licensed the pattern from the Metropolitan Museum, 
it had a limited "life" and all patterns licensed from the Met are 
now out of print and not likely to be reprinted. I missed purchasing 
a couple i really wanted :-(  the early 20th c. "Travelling Suit" and 
the Poiret dolman coat...

As for putting on yards of soutache, well, if one orders a jellaba in 
Morocco, one does pay extra for more trim, but they do get it done in 
a few days, after all, they're specialists :-)

Anahita
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:03:28 -0700
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swapsell moderator  wrote:
> 
> Hello h-costume@indra.com,
> 
> You've been invited to join the swapsell group
> hosted by Yahoo! Groups, a free, easy-to-use community service.
> By joining swapsell, you will be able to exchange
> messages with other group members, store photos and files, 
> coordinate events and more.
> 
> This invitation will expire in 7 days.
> 
> Here's an introductory message from the group moderator:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Welcome!
> 
> In light of the changes at Community Zero, the 
> H-Costume Swap and Sell board has relocated here until a 
> better home for it can be found.  Enjoy!
> 
> Cheers,
> Danielle 
>  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> JOIN NOW, IT'S EASY: 
> 
> 1) Go to the Yahoo! Groups site by clicking on this link:
> 
>   
http://groups.yahoo.com/i?i=hCwCxf6DlSGAkOWlugSzwPaiX_0&e=h-costume%40indra%2Ecom
>   (If clicking doesn't work, "Cut" and "Paste" the line above into your 
>    Web browser's address bar.)
> 
> -OR-
> 
> 2) REPLY to this email by clicking "Reply" and then "Send"
>    in your email program
> 
> If you do not wish to join the swapsell group, please
> ignore this invitation.
> 
> SPECIAL NOTE FROM Yahoo! Groups:  Because Yahoo! Groups values your
> privacy, it is a violation of our service rules for moderators to
> abuse this invitation feature. If you feel this has happened, 
> please notify us at abuse@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:07:39 -0600
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DO NOT REPLY TO THE MESSAGE!  It will not subscribe you to the
swapsell list, it will just send a copy of the message back to
h-costume.  The owner of the swapsell list will have to make the list
accessible on yahoogroups before people can join it.

Thanks,
				...eliz, h-cost list admin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 14:17:07 2002
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From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" 
To: 
References: <200209261803.g8QI3Who026058@net.indra.com> <20020926120739.P11344@net.indra.com>
Subject: Re: [[h-cost] Invitation to join the swapsell group]
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:13:54 -0400
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/swapsell/

Here is the link to take you to the page to join...

Regards,  

Apollonia (not the list owner)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elizabeth Lear" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [[h-cost] Invitation to join the swapsell group]


> 
> DO NOT REPLY TO THE MESSAGE!  It will not subscribe you to the
> swapsell list, it will just send a copy of the message back to
> h-costume.  The owner of the swapsell list will have to make the list
> accessible on yahoogroups before people can join it.
> 
> Thanks,
> ...eliz, h-cost list admin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 14:32:09 2002
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From: Shea Young
 
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Subject: Re: [Re: [[h-cost] Invitation to join the swapsell group]]
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:29:28 -0700
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Sorry for adding to the bad traffic Eliz,

I went to the link and joined.

Shea

Elizabeth Lear  wrote:
> 
> DO NOT REPLY TO THE MESSAGE!  It will not subscribe you to the
> swapsell list, it will just send a copy of the message back to
> h-costume.  The owner of the swapsell list will have to make the list
> accessible on yahoogroups before people can join it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 				...eliz, h-cost list admin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 17:21:05 2002
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From: kat@grendal.rain.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] reed bents and whalebone
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:53:12 -0700
Status: RO

 
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote:
> 
> > I am looking for documentation of reed bents and whalebone *prior*
> > to 1550. If you have any hard documentation (quotes from the period,
> > inventories, import records, archeology bits/pieces), I would love
> > to see them.

> > I already have Corsets and Crinolines, QEWU (and the other Janet
> > Arnold books which show the later stuff), but I need information
> > from pre-1550 (preferably pre-1540 if possible.)

Robin replied:
> You might try the Henry VIII inventory. 

Yep. I have this. I guess I should have mentioned that I also have 
Linthicum and the 6 volume Lisle letters set.  I was just hoping that 
someone out there had seen some of the import records and that sort 
of thing so that I didn't have to "reinvent the wheel." 

Kat Russell


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 21:22:46 2002
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From: "Saragrace knauf" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Anyone know Gill Shalos-swap & sell list owner? OT  Was: Invitation to join the swapsell group]
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 18:11:52 -0700
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This looks like the list owner, but there is no email for her.  Anyone
know what is going on?  Contact me off list for this discussion please.


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 21:23:18 2002
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Please be aware that the author shows No body modifications in his draping, not even bust
support, ore even allowing 'spring' for the lacing.  (ok, that I found.)

If you are already good at fitting corsets, this won't produce any difficulties, but if
corsets are something new, you may be disappointed in the silhouette achieved not looking
anything like the desired period.

He seems to go for merely fitted rather than snug.
I believe most corsetry can start with his patterns, and then tighten up to support the bosom
& make the waist 1) more circular for an appearence of being smaller and 2) somewhat smaller.

I found the book most useful for the wonderful collection of commercial corsets patterns from
a corsets manufacturer in (iirc) 1880's or so.

Ann in CT


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 22:08:15 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone know Gill Shalos-swap & sell list owner? OT 
 Was: Invitation to join the swapsell group]
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On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Saragrace knauf wrote:

> This looks like the list owner, but there is no email for her.  Anyone
> know what is going on?  Contact me off list for this discussion please.

I don't know who Gill Shalos is, but Danielle Nunn-Weinberg formed the
group, having moved it from CommunityZero.

--Robin


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Sep 26 23:31:28 2002
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone know Gill Shalos-swap & sell list owner?
  OT  Was: Invitation to join the swapsell group]
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Status: RO

It's me.  Because it's yahoo it uses my Yahoo idea and the thing wouldn't 
let me change it yesterday...

Cheers,
Danielle

At 06:11 PM 9/26/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>This looks like the list owner, but there is no email for her.  Anyone
>know what is going on?  Contact me off list for this discussion please.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg 
Subject: Re: URGENT Re: [[h-cost] Invitation to join the swapsell group]
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 22:32:30 -0500
Status: RO

Sorry, how on earth did that happen?  I'm trying to figure out how to 
remove the invitation...

Cheers,
Danielle

At 05:47 AM 9/26/2002 -0600, you wrote:

>I need the moderator of the swapsell group to REMOVE the address
>h-costume@indra.com from the new mailing list.  Because of the way the
>invitation was sent, anyone (and everyone) who used the provided link
>subscribed THIS list to that list, instead of their individual mailing
>address!
>
>If you used the link, you need to go back to yahoogroups.com and join
>with your own email address.  Do NOT use the link provided in the
>invitation email!
>
>                                 ...eliz, h-cost list admin
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 27 00:58:19 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century linen width?
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Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 00:59:51 -0400
Status: RO

22" is a pretty narrow loom, for modern weavers. That's what I had, it 
is the narrowest floor loom made.  36 or even 45 is more common.

The determining factor in width is, again, waste. You lose the thread 
used to tie on at the beginning of your fabric, and you lose a lot at 
the back, where the thread has to go through the reed, harnesses, and 
tie onto the warp beam. Those short threads cut off in the back are 
called thrums, and drive even modern weavers wild - always trying to 
find a way to not waste them. When that was all hand spun, that was a 
lot of work to discard.

The wider the cloth, the more loom waste. If you can make a piece of 
cloth narrower, and still usable, you cut down on waste. There is extra 
time weaving it, but you saved time warping, and a great deal of time 
spinning.

I think this was less a factor in the earlier warp weighted loom, as 
there is generally less loom waste. I could ask people who know those 
looms better, if you want.

Anne

Robin Netherton wrote:

>
>No specific sources, but my understanding was that linen weaving in this
>period was a "cottage craft" -- done by individual women in their homes,
>for personal use or for sale. So, fabric width would be dictated by the
>width achievable by a person working alone. Perhaps the weavers on the
>list can confirm -- about 22-24 inches, in part depending on the person's
>arm length?
>
>--Robin
>
>


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Subject: [h-cost] Irish Linen
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I still want to hear about the linen Nicole gets!


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 27 12:47:26 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Irish Linen
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Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 17:47:08 +0100 (BST)
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 --- Heather Meadows  wrote: > I still want to hear about
the linen Nicole gets!

I will tell you after the re-enactor's market in november, I just can't find
their phone number and I know they moved. Grrrr...

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Sep 27 13:40:24 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan Miniature book on eBay
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Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:35:51 -0500
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Ok, must be my week for eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=907930261&rd=1

I have this book (found it for only $3 at the Friend of the Library
sale a few years ago) and it is a very nice little book.  It is a small,
thin book but color is good, illustrations are a little larger than some
of the actual miniatures so you can see a few more details for research.
 As the auction info mentions it has a good history on miniature
painting in this period.

Catherine

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 28 17:59:30 2002
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] copies and rare books; was: International  Copyrights
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:13:42 -0400 (EDT)
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>
> Agreed.  I had a copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy of McClintock's book on Irish and
> Highland Dress.  Unicorn Books got permission to reproduce it (in copy
> form, not hardcover), and you can bet I jumped at the opportunity.  I'd
> MUCH rather have a good-quality original than a fair or bad-quality copy.

Amen to that.  I've done this several times--gotten xeroxes of books that
were unavailable but vital for reference while waiting for an out-of-print
copy to turn up. As soon as the real thing becomes available, I always
jump at the chance to get it.  With articles, it can be even
harder to find originals...especially with periodicals like Waffen -und
Kostumkunde, which are virtually impossible to find for sale.

Speaking of which, what is Montgomery's Textiles in America?  Sounds
yummy.

Drea

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Subject: [h-cost] Fabric stash inventory idea
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Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:08:11 -0700
Status: RO

If any of you got this month's Threads mag, it had a cute little note in the
"tips" section about a lady who keeps a swatch of every fabric she buys on a
pin attached to a keyring.  They are backed with adhesive iron interfacing,
and then on the back of the interfacing is the fabric width, yardage, and
whatever else you like, ie. fabric content or washing instructions.

I got inspired and pulled everything out of my bags and haphazard piles and
began the project of sorting and inventoring all my stash.  This is the
coolest project I've ever undertaken. I feel like I'll have this "library"
of fabrics when I'm done.  Heavy stuff for Renn, velvets, all this stuff I
keep rebuying or not being able to locate when I'm at the store, say for a
thread or trim match.

Anyway, if any of you really want to do "spring cleaning" this is a great
idea... so simple and so effective.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design
"Let me take you a buttonhole lower."
Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 28 18:00:43 2002
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I think there is an essential flaw in my cunning plan
 for an Elizabethian
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:06:02 -0400 (EDT)
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Hmm... if you have side back openings (with eyes sewn to the inside to
lace through) and a front-lacing as well, with two inches on the
center front and side back edges folded back, that will give you a good
12 inches or more of growth room.

Drea


On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote:

>  --- Katie Lewis  wrote: > Well, maybe not a flaw, but
> definately a complication.
> > To recap, I want to make a gathered kirtle out of linen, to be worn under a
> > loose gown made out of wool.
> > Then, last month, just as I was preparing to draft the patterns...I found out
> > that I am pregnant.  Now I'm quite happy about the pregnancy but it does
> > rather complicate matters wrt the sewing :)
>
> First of all congratulations!
> second, I have NO experience with being pregnant, so caveat emptor here.
> Third, did you see the wonderful Ropa that one of the ladies from I think
> Bristol fair made? I think she is on Margo's patern list, and she looked SUPERB
> in it when she went to the fair TWO weeks before she was due. I am just
> wondering, perhaps of you went for something completely different this time,
> for a ropa, then you wouldn't have to worry, and just make the kirtle gown
> after the baby is born?
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
> Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 28 18:03:37 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <20020922212016.4273.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christening bonnet pattern?
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 23:45:16 +0200
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------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C26292.1A2B0750
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Dear Nicole.
This baby bonnet was made by the old lady who teached me to make lace. (her
book, learn to make bobbin lace.)
I think it is very pretty.
The pattern of it should not be that difficult to figure out. It is made of
hanky linnen.
Bjarne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christening bonnet pattern?


> --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: >
> Hello Auntie Nicole :-)
>
> *grins*
>
> > I have in one of my lace books the most adorable baby bonnet. I shall
try to
> > look for it, and scan you a picture.
>
> Thanks so much! I have some very wonderful laces here at home, from my
ever
> growing ebay-collection :-) Looking forward to the picture!
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> Leader - L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
> Baroque Living History Society 1660-1715
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] tie-in sleeves
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:12:38 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

Good question!  The earliest place I've seen ties is in 15th century
Italy. It may have come from there (though my specialty is more
16th than 15th c.)

Decorative sleeves pinned to a short-sleeved (or sleeveless)
undergown were worn throughout Europe in the 15th century as well. When
the gown was worn over these, all one saw was a rich looking sleeve
underneath.

Drea

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote:

> I have a question that has been rattling around in my brain for awhile and
> since I thought of it while reading this list (for once), I thought I'd ask
> you all! When did tie-in sleeves start and end? I know they were used in
> late 16th cent., as that's my period, but when did someone get the bright
> idea that you could just tie in the sleeves and swap them around for a new
> look? And when did the practice fade out of fashion?
>
>
> **********************
> Rebecca Schmitt
> aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
> Bristol,
> BRF FOF
>
> So many books, so little time
>
> lotsofteapots@charter.net
> **********************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] reed bents and whalebone
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Status: RO

I'd love to see this, too.  The pictures obviously show some form of
stiffening going on, but I haven't found any written evidence.

Drea


On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote:

> I am looking for documentation of reed bents and whalebone *prior* to
> 1550. If you have any hard documentation (quotes from the period,
> inventories, import records, archeology bits/pieces), I would love to
> see them.
>
> I already have Corsets and Crinolines, QEWU (and the other Janet
> Arnold books which show the later stuff), but I need information from
> pre-1550 (preferably pre-1540 if possible.)
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kat Russell
> 
>
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From: Drea Leed 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset, large
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:14:13 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO


> Hi there!
> I wondered if any on this list, might have some good advises about making
> corsets to large persons.
> I have a costumer with a bust meassure of 49 inches waist meassure of 41
> inches.
> Do you think i should use Drea's corset generator and then adapt the pattern
> to 18th century?

My pattern tends to create a very flat-fronted and barrel-shaped form on
larger women, and doesn't push the bust forward and round it like 18th
c. stays should. Have you considered getting J.P. Ryan's 18th c. stays
pattern and adapting that to a larger size? Larger women tend to be more
squishable, too--some large women can take 6 inches off their waist when
in a corset, without feeling much discomfort.

I did see an 18th c corset in Washington DC which had one flaring piece
from the waist down to the hips, rather than the usual series of tabs.
This might be more sturdy than separate tabs for a larger woman.

Good luck,

Drea

> Jean Hunniset has a corset pattern to fit a large person, but it is not
> historically correct, but perhaps i could adapt this also?
> What do you think?
> I have never made anything for a large person before.
> She wanted a large panier, but i advised her to have a medium sized one, i
> think it would not look good with a huge panier on a large person,
> Any suggestions/ advises  would be greatly apreciated.
> Thanks
>
> Bjarne
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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Subject: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:06:56 -0700
Status: RO

I'm probably doing to be costuming "Les Miserable" in April.  The show's
location is France, it's time period is 1815-1833.  So it begins with late
Regency and ends with what, pre Civil War?  Whatever you call that classic
Dickensian poofy sleeved look.  There is an abundance of graphic information
available on women and men of gentry and the upper classes on the web, and
in all my personal library.  I am especially pleased with the one I just
purchased due to a mention here on the list, entitled "Fabric of Society,"
but I am not sure where to look or what to look under to find some good
working class folks.

Any suggestions for books or websites that deal with the French working
class for this time period?  The scenes that begin the show take place in a
factory. I could do the standard theatrical blouse, skirt and shawl, for the
women factory workers,  as most audiences are not terribly sophisticated,
but I'd like to at least know what I'm doing even if I can't be perfectly
accurate.  I'd rather at least attempt a period correct silhouette and
garment structure.

Thanks all for any light you may shed.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none:
be able for thine enemy rather in power than use,
and keep thy friend under thy own life's key:
be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..."
W. Shakespeare





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From: "Cabbage Rose" 
To: 
References: <00d701c265b1$7b050ae0$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond/grammar correction
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 15:08:39 -0700
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Ok, yes, well then, it's "going to be cosuming" or just "doing" not the
gibberish I posted. Sorry ::blushes::
angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela Lazear" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:06 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Regency & beyond


> I'm probably doing to be costuming "Les Miserable" in April.  The show's
> location is France, it's time period is 1815-1833.  So it begins with late
> Regency and ends with what, pre Civil War?  Whatever you call that classic
> Dickensian poofy sleeved look.  There is an abundance of graphic
information
> available on women and men of gentry and the upper classes on the web, and
> in all my personal library.  I am especially pleased with the one I just
> purchased due to a mention here on the list, entitled "Fabric of Society,"
> but I am not sure where to look or what to look under to find some good
> working class folks.
>
> Any suggestions for books or websites that deal with the French working
> class for this time period?  The scenes that begin the show take place in
a
> factory. I could do the standard theatrical blouse, skirt and shawl, for
the
> women factory workers,  as most audiences are not terribly sophisticated,
> but I'd like to at least know what I'm doing even if I can't be perfectly
> accurate.  I'd rather at least attempt a period correct silhouette and
> garment structure.
>
> Thanks all for any light you may shed.
>
> angela
> +++++
> Angela F. Lazear
> Cabbage Rose Costumes
> Theatrical Costume Design
> www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none:
> be able for thine enemy rather in power than use,
> and keep thy friend under thy own life's key:
> be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..."
> W. Shakespeare
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 16:20:08 -0700
Status: RO

"Angela F. Lazear" wrote:
> 
> If any of you got this month's Threads mag, it had a cute little note in the
> "tips" section about a lady who keeps a swatch of every fabric she buys on a
> pin attached to a keyring.  They are backed with adhesive iron interfacing,
> and then on the back of the interfacing is the fabric width, yardage, and
> whatever else you like, ie. fabric content or washing instructions.
> 
> 
> angela

Not unlike the method I use, but mine are on 3x5 cards.  You can check
it out at:

http://www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Making_Time/Making_time.htm

Stephen Bergdahl - Lord Vich
www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm

Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com
Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings 
Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 16:22:41 -0700
Status: RO

Drea Leed wrote:
> 
> Good question!  The earliest place I've seen ties is in 15th century
> Italy. It may have come from there (though my specialty is more
> 16th than 15th c.)
> 
> Decorative sleeves pinned to a short-sleeved (or sleeveless)
> undergown were worn throughout Europe in the 15th century as well. When
> the gown was worn over these, all one saw was a rich looking sleeve
> underneath.
> 
> Drea
> 
Now here is a question, are there any known examples of the men doing
the same?
-- 
Stephen Bergdahl - Lord Vich
www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm

Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com
Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings 
Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing
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From: "Cabbage Rose" 
To: 
References: <000d01c25b93$940d87b0$6a2eaf40@angelap3a8d978> <3D963928.5DF14A92@2xtreme.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric stash inventory idea
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 16:57:10 -0700
Status: RO

Stephen! That's fabulous.  Since somehow this post took weeks to get to the
list, I had to stumble on the system myself, but basically used a version of
yours.  I keep my theater costumes in my locker and my fabric stash in my
home, so I used those big zippered clear bags you can get at Bed, Bath &
Beyond and sorted the fabric by color (black is a whole bag), uses or types
(skin/mesh, felt) and lastly I did bags of my personal clothing fabric and
costuming fabric, with Ren being it's own category. It's more visual, but my
stash is probably smaller than yours (at least for now).

As you mentioned in your article, I had a similar experience retrieving
fabric after the sorting.  I went to get a piece of fabric I've been saving
to make a frothy blouse and snapped it up in 10 seconds instead of the usual
hour or two I take looking in all the shopping bags.  It will require some
self-discipline to add new fabric to the inventory, but once you've spent
the time to get it squared away, that's nothing.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"I have no other but a woman's reason:
I think him so, because I think him so."
Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare




----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Bergdahl" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric stash inventory idea


> "Angela F. Lazear" wrote:
> >
> > If any of you got this month's Threads mag, it had a cute little note in
the
> > "tips" section about a lady who keeps a swatch of every fabric she buys
on a
> > pin attached to a keyring.  They are backed with adhesive iron
interfacing,
> > and then on the back of the interfacing is the fabric width, yardage,
and
> > whatever else you like, ie. fabric content or washing instructions.
> >
> >
> > angela
>
> Not unlike the method I use, but mine are on 3x5 cards.  You can check
> it out at:
>
> http://www.2xtreme.net/madly/Costuming101/Making_Time/Making_time.htm
>
> Stephen Bergdahl - Lord Vich
> www.2xtreme.net/madly/Home_Page.htm
>
> Instructor for www.costumeclassroom.com
> Elizabethan Era Clothing and Underpinnings
> Online Classes in Historical and Modern Sewing
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From: Leslie
 
To: 
Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Fabric stash inventory idea]
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 19:32:54 -0500
Status: RO

I am coming out of the woodwork to say I also do something similar. I have
over 8 bins of fabric.(I love to shop for fabric, I can't help it) But I used
a 3-ring binder instead and have the swatches on pieces of paper and seperate
it by bin number. Now the next project is to do the same thing with the trim.

Leslie


"Cabbage Rose"  wrote:
> Stephen! That's fabulous.  Since somehow this post took weeks to get to the
> list, I had to stumble on the system myself, but basically used a version
of
> yours.  I keep my theater costumes in my locker and my fabric stash in my
> home, so I used those big zippered clear bags you can get at Bed, Bath &
> Beyond and sorted the fabric by color (black is a whole bag), uses or types
> (skin/mesh, felt) and lastly I did bags of my personal clothing fabric and
> costuming fabric, with Ren being it's own category. It's more visual, but
my
> stash is probably smaller than yours (at least for now).
> 
> As you mentioned in your article, I had a similar experience retrieving
> fabric after the sorting.  I went to get a piece of fabric I've been saving
> to make a frothy blouse and snapped it up in 10 seconds instead of the
usual
> hour or two I take looking in all the shopping bags.  It will require some
> self-discipline to add new fabric to the inventory, but once you've spent
> the time to get it squared away, that's nothing.
> 
> angela
> +++++
> Angela F. Lazear
> Cabbage Rose Costumes
> http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> Theatrical Costume Design
> 
> "I have no other but a woman's reason:
> I think him so, because I think him so."
> Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric stash inventory idea
> 
> 



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 28 20:36:10 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
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Subject: [h-cost] Pin-on sleeves (was: tie-in sleeves)
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 19:41:17 -0500 (CDT)
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Drea Leed wrote:

> Decorative sleeves pinned to a short-sleeved (or sleeveless) undergown
> were worn throughout Europe in the 15th century as well. When the gown
> was worn over these, all one saw was a rich looking sleeve underneath.

That's the explanation in the books, but I've begun to question that. I've
collected plenty of examples of art from mid 15th-c. Flanders/France
showing women wearing a short-sleeved undergown with a pin-on long sleeve
(typically of fancy fabric such as brocade). However, at this same time,
the overdresses (V-necked gowns) have developed very tight long sleeves,
much tighter than the looser-sleeved version earlier in the century. So I
have yet to see an example of an overdress with wider sleeves that reveals
a rich-looking sleeve underneath.

Here's my thought: As the sleeves of the overdresses tightened (which
happened roughly around 1450-1460 in Flanders), there was no need to have
a long-sleeved underdress, because the overdress covered the lower arm
completely. So women began wearing short-sleeved underdresses, which cut
down on bulk on the arms. (Very slim arms seem to have been valued at this
time.) But when they wanted to wear their underdresses alone -- in
informal circumstances, going about their daily routine -- the
short-sleeved style would have been unacceptable. (The chemise had long
sleeves, but chemises were considered almost equivalent to nudity.) So
they covered their "bare" arms with the pin-on sleeves, making the
short-sleeved underdresses suitable for public wear.

This concept matches up satisfactorily to the artwork, which shows women
in informal circumstances wearing the short-sleeved underdresses with
pin-on sleeves; women in states of partial dress or distress wearing
short-sleeved underdresses with chemise sleeves showing; and women in
formal circumstances wearing tight-sleeved overdresses with no undersleeve
visible.

If anyone does have an example of a decorative undersleeve showing from
beneath an overgown in this period after 1450 or so, I'd really like to
know. This is still just my hypothesis, and I'm still collecting
information.

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 28 20:56:18 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: Historic Costume List 
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Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of fabric stashes
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 20:01:26 -0500 (CDT)
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I'm looking for a dress length of medium blue worsted wool -- about a
Wedgewood blue, or a medium blue-jeans shade. I work at a fabric store and
expected to see this color come in with the rest of the suiting worsted
for fall, as it's a traditional men's suiting color. But all our worsteds
are navy, black, brown, grey and khaki this year.

I need the medium blue for a new fitted dress to go under a 14th century
overdress I already own, so color is not negotiable. That overdress is red
and blue patterned wool (you can see it at
) and my current
underdress is wine-red silk. But I also have several other overdresses
planned, with fabric in hand, and all of them are red. So, the next fitted
dress has to be in the blue.

I can't afford to buy the medium blue worsted through the usual retail
channels (typically $16-$20/yard or more), even if I could find it
(haven't yet).  But I can afford the worsted I can get at our own shop,
with my discount. So: If you have some suitable medium-blue worsted, I
would be willing to trade an equal length of high-quality worsted in navy,
black, brown, grey, khaki, or deep teal (part of an earlier find). I'll
need to double-check the availability of those colors, but right now we
have a pretty good stock. I would pay all shipping, and might be able to
sweeten the deal depending on what you have and what you need.

TIA--

-- Robin


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 28 21:35:19 2002
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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: 
References: <00d701c265b1$7b050ae0$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:36:35 -0700
Status: RO

Take a look at _Everyday Dress 1650-1900_ by Elizabeth Ewing.  It covers
England rather than France, but it might give you some ideas.  You might
also look for books on early female factory workers in France, US/New
England, etc. and look for pictures -- I'm thinking of pictures of the
Lowell mill girls from the early 1830's (which, by the way, is generally
called the Romantic Era).

- Kendra
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela Lazear" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:06 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Regency & beyond


> I'm probably doing to be costuming "Les Miserable" in April.  The show's
> location is France, it's time period is 1815-1833.  So it begins with late
> Regency and ends with what, pre Civil War?  Whatever you call that classic
> Dickensian poofy sleeved look.  There is an abundance of graphic
information
> available on women and men of gentry and the upper classes on the web, and
> in all my personal library.  I am especially pleased with the one I just
> purchased due to a mention here on the list, entitled "Fabric of Society,"
> but I am not sure where to look or what to look under to find some good
> working class folks.
>
> Any suggestions for books or websites that deal with the French working
> class for this time period?  The scenes that begin the show take place in
a
> factory. I could do the standard theatrical blouse, skirt and shawl, for
the
> women factory workers,  as most audiences are not terribly sophisticated,
> but I'd like to at least know what I'm doing even if I can't be perfectly
> accurate.  I'd rather at least attempt a period correct silhouette and
> garment structure.
>
> Thanks all for any light you may shed.
>
> angela
> +++++
> Angela F. Lazear
> Cabbage Rose Costumes
> Theatrical Costume Design
> www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none:
> be able for thine enemy rather in power than use,
> and keep thy friend under thy own life's key:
> be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..."
> W. Shakespeare
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From: Heather Meadows 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric stash inventory idea
To: h-costume@indra.com
In-Reply-To:  from "Angela F. Lazear" at Sep 13, 2002 07:08:11 PM
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:38:25 -0700 (PDT)
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I put mine on index cards -- it took a long time to do originally,
but it's a fantastic way to track everything.

.heather.


> 
> If any of you got this month's Threads mag, it had a cute little note in the
> "tips" section about a lady who keeps a swatch of every fabric she buys on a
> pin attached to a keyring.  They are backed with adhesive iron interfacing,
> and then on the back of the interfacing is the fabric width, yardage, and
> whatever else you like, ie. fabric content or washing instructions.
> 
> I got inspired and pulled everything out of my bags and haphazard piles and
> began the project of sorting and inventoring all my stash.  This is the
> coolest project I've ever undertaken. I feel like I'll have this "library"
> of fabrics when I'm done.  Heavy stuff for Renn, velvets, all this stuff I
> keep rebuying or not being able to locate when I'm at the store, say for a
> thread or trim match.
> 
> Anyway, if any of you really want to do "spring cleaning" this is a great
> idea... so simple and so effective.
> 
> angela
> +++++
> Angela F. Lazear
> Cabbage Rose Costumes
> http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> Theatrical Costume Design
> "Let me take you a buttonhole lower."
> Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare
> 
> 
> 
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 28 21:46:20 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
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Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:49:17 -0700
Status: RO

Thanks, Kendra.

The era "name" should be helpful.  Are there actual photographs?pictures
from that era (isn't it too early) or portraiture?  I do believe it's a mill
that they are employed at in Les Miz.  I'll see if I can find a copy of the
book. Is it in print?

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design
"Let me take you a buttonhole lower."
Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond


> Take a look at _Everyday Dress 1650-1900_ by Elizabeth Ewing.  It covers
> England rather than France, but it might give you some ideas.  You might
> also look for books on early female factory workers in France, US/New
> England, etc. and look for pictures -- I'm thinking of pictures of the
> Lowell mill girls from the early 1830's (which, by the way, is generally
> called the Romantic Era).
>
> - Kendra
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angela Lazear" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:06 PM
> Subject: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
>
>
> > I'm probably doing to be costuming "Les Miserable" in April.  The show's
> > location is France, it's time period is 1815-1833.  So it begins with
late
> > Regency and ends with what, pre Civil War?  Whatever you call that
classic
> > Dickensian poofy sleeved look.  There is an abundance of graphic
> information
> > available on women and men of gentry and the upper classes on the web,
and
> > in all my personal library.  I am especially pleased with the one I just
> > purchased due to a mention here on the list, entitled "Fabric of
Society,"
> > but I am not sure where to look or what to look under to find some good
> > working class folks.
> >
> > Any suggestions for books or websites that deal with the French working
> > class for this time period?  The scenes that begin the show take place
in
> a
> > factory. I could do the standard theatrical blouse, skirt and shawl, for
> the
> > women factory workers,  as most audiences are not terribly
sophisticated,
> > but I'd like to at least know what I'm doing even if I can't be
perfectly
> > accurate.  I'd rather at least attempt a period correct silhouette and
> > garment structure.
> >
> > Thanks all for any light you may shed.
> >
> > angela
> > +++++
> > Angela F. Lazear
> > Cabbage Rose Costumes
> > Theatrical Costume Design
> > www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> > "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none:
> > be able for thine enemy rather in power than use,
> > and keep thy friend under thy own life's key:
> > be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..."
> > W. Shakespeare
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>

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Greetings one and all .....
 Can any one suggest a website with good pictures of late 15th/early 16th century Italian clothing ?  I am particularly looking for good pictures of a garment called a giornea, both front and back, so I can get an idea of how to construct said garment.  Or, if anyone has patterns or instructions, that would most helpful ...
Thanks in advance
Carol


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Greetings one and all .....

 Can any one suggest a website with good pictures of late 15th/early 16th century Italian clothing ?  I am particularly looking for good pictures of a garment called a giornea, both front and back, so I can get an idea of how to construct said garment.  Or, if anyone has patterns or instructions, that would most helpful ...

Thanks in advance

Carol


....you cease to mourn the morning when you celebrate the night .....

"The night summons like an unquenched love, beckoning with the promise of dark desires."

"The only way to get rid of temptation is to give in to it" ... Oscar Wilde

Do you Yahoo!?

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Sep 28 23:20:21 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] UK 1874 Live role play Event November
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For those of you who were interested we have a opera and dinner event
planned with a trip to a local attraction the next day planned for Nov, this
is aimed at the new role player, please email me off list if interested .

Mel


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need advice/suggestions for giornea pattern
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 --- carol  wrote: > 
> Greetings one and all .....
>  Can any one suggest a website with good pictures of
> late 15th/early 16th century Italian clothing ?  I
> am particularly looking for good pictures of a
> garment called a giornea, both front and back, so I
> can get an idea of how to construct said garment. 
> Or, if anyone has patterns or instructions, that
> would most helpful ...
> Thanks in advance
> Carol


According to the glossary from "Dress in Renaissance
Italy, 1400-1500", a giornea (for a female, although
there is also a male version) is:

"GIORNEA (F). An overdress, open in front and down the
sides, to allow the textile of the cotta worn
underneath to show through. The giornea is quite often
longer at the back of the hem, offering a sweeping
profile in movement. It may or may not have detached
sleeves. It is a summer garment, worn more often in
Florence than further north, where the pellanda, with
open or closed long sleeves, is more suitable for most
of the year. Sometimes, however, the giornea is lined
with fur, in which case it may be worn during the
cooler months. It appears to be a garment normally
worn by the young. In a law of 1456, the giornea is
associated with the cioppa, both being garments worn
directly over the cotta. It was stated that women were
allowed up to two silk overgarments -- to be worn at
separate times -- one for winter, the other for
summer. It could be a cioppa, or a giornea, whichever
was preferred, with one cotta for wearing underneath
(Polidori Calamandrei, p. 44)."

Vangelissta has kindly webbed the glossary, and you
can find it here:



Lucrezia Tornabuoni wears one in this painting:




Period Patterns #41 includes a pattern for one of
these (they call it a tabard - first lady on the lower
left):



There's also a Simplicity pattern that might be
suitable:







=====
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Innilgard, Lochac

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric stash inventory idea
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:27:15 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

 --- Heather Meadows  wrote: > I put mine on index cards
-- it took a long time to do originally,
> but it's a fantastic way to track everything.
> 

I have mine on index cards too, but I don't have any fabric samples to go with
it. believe it or not, but I know my babies that well, that a description of
the fabric is enough to bring it vividly before my inner eye :-) Colour,
pattern and all. I only ever start buying trims (if at all) and threads when I
actually immerse into a project. Also, if I ever find trims that are on offer
and I really think are worth buying, I always get as much as is there! :-)

Nicole - loving owner of certain fabrics for too many years just because they
are so lovely that I don't dare make anything out of it, it feels nothing would
do the lovely fabric justice. Are there others out there who have the same
problem??? *outs herself*

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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>
>Nicole - loving owner of certain fabrics for too many years just because 
>they
>are so lovely that I don't dare make anything out of it, it feels nothing 
>would
>do the lovely fabric justice. Are there others out there who have the same
>problem??? *outs herself*
>
I had that problem a lot before I started making things for people outside 
my family.  When someone falls in love with a favorite fabric and I know 
they will treat it with love and appreciation, then I can let it move on.  
It gives me the opportunity to find the next one.  OK, kind of nutty but 
that's the way I am.


Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!


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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 23:32:03 +1200
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> Any suggestions for books or websites that deal with the French working
> class for this time period?  The scenes that begin the show take place in
a
> factory. I could do the standard theatrical blouse, skirt and shawl, for
the
> women factory workers,  as most audiences are not terribly sophisticated,
> but I'd like to at least know what I'm doing even if I can't be perfectly
> accurate.  I'd rather at least attempt a period correct silhouette and
> garment structure.


Well the actual show grabs costume info from the 18thC even as during the
factory and whore pit scenes there are usually a number of conical corset
shapes to be found.

One thing I would try and do, I'm assuming you have the rights to the show
and so have guidelines as to how much of the 'look' you can do. Try to give
Fantine her blue dress. There will be crowds of fans and this is something
that is a real key look. Just as Eponines flat cap and sleevles ..chemise
type top and skirt with wide belt are.

And Cosette's black dress with white pelerine collar.

Yeah, I know the show inside and out and actually performed in a production
here. My own costume was:
http://recital.tripod.com/costume/lesmis.htm
The bodice was a short corset pattern from Evolution in Fashion, simple and
quick to run up, it's the pattern of the stripes that makes it interesting.
A wrap over blouse underneath and a brown skirt finished it. Ah yes, down
trodden mass is so fun to play;)

We did mostly use blouse and skirts for the majority of the chorus, but did
make sure the key characters utilised something of what the original
designer chose.

Do you have the 10th Aniversary concert? It should be available to rent near
you anyway and the singers are in costume for the whole thing, as well as a
few stills from the original production.

I wouldn't recommend being too bogged down in historical correctness... it's
a really long show and many scenes are short so you need to be evocative in
costume. So the whores are usually in garish make up with little on and that
tattered even if they would really be rather normally dressed. But it's so
brutal and what they are singing so nasty you need to emphasise it.

Oh and prepare to weep. It's the one musical that is guaranteed to make me
blub like a baby from the candlestick scene to the end. Now I'm known as
being a bit cold when it comes to sentimentality, but this gets me. Even
when I was just in the chorus of the show I buzzed out on stage. The music
is really emotive.

michaela


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I have been enjoying the writings on this web page. Thanks for the link!

I have a question for costumers out there (after reading Men in Tights). . .

What is a "working" codpiece?  I always thought a codpiece was just a vanity
thing--padding-- so others couldn't size up the "real thing" under the
tights.

Denise
landofoz@netins.net


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 29 08:57:36 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric stash inventory idea
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      I had a small notebook where I would put a swatch of the fabric, 
write the yards I had, the price, where I bought it, the fiber 
content, etc.  Then I started going crazy over quilt prints and that 
went by the wayside. :-)  I'm sure the notebook is around somewhere...

>Nicole - loving owner of certain fabrics for too many years just 
>because they are so lovely that I don't dare make anything out of 
>it, it feels nothing would do the lovely fabric justice. Are there 
>others out there who have the same problem??? *outs herself*

      Hello, I'm Carol and I'm a fabriholic.  :-)  Many years ago, I 
bought this piece of dark green silk with the most amazing weave. 
It's damask with some basketweave in the pattern.  The fabric is 
thin, yet somehow the damask pattern is different on each side!  What 
can I make that will show off both sides?  Will anyone else actually 
notice? :-)  I think I have 2-1/2 yards of it, so I figure maybe a 
Garsault bedgown sort of thing where I can turn back the cuffs.  Neat 
flatfell seams so it will be reversible.  But it's really not 
historic.  I do have several pieces of changeable silk taffeta that 
are nice.

      One of my best uses - a changeable beige and turquoise fabric 
with a slight figure weave.  People used to tell me how horrible it 
was, that it looked like shower curtain material.  I made a Civil War 
era (American) ballgown out of it, with 1/4" brown velvet ribbon as 
trim, and it's lovely.  I ignored the fact that the fabric is of 
indeterminate fiber content... Oh, and I originally bought it at an 
outlet for 50 cents a yard.

      At the moment I'm remodeling a house, so my fabric buying funds 
are diverted.  Fortunately I have a good stash so that, if I do eke 
out some sewing time, I have some fabric to work with.

      -Carol
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 29 09:54:11 2002
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Okay Carol, I out my favourite fabrics.\

*stands up and frets*

Hi, I am Nicole, and I have several fabrics that I bought YEARS ago and just
cannot get myself to cut into/make something out of it, because I am waiting
(probably forever) for the PERFECT pattern/era/reason/you name it.

There is this absolutely gorgeous goldy creamy upholstery fabric with the most
beautiful 16th century large pattern. I have 5.3 meters and it is wide too, 1.3
m. I bought it back in, uhm... 1993? *whimper*

The next one is this fantastic 18th century striped pattern with pale cream
yellow and green stripes with dark green lovely curlicues, upholstery too, but 
impossible to tell. I have enough for an 18th c. waistcoat, about 2 meters,
but... I bought it back in 1994 or 5.

I got this lovely big piece of finest buff coloured kid glove leather from my
BF's mum for Christmas 1997, who sadly passed away this year. One day I will
learn how to make gloves.. honest...

These are my three favourite babies. Which ones are yours?

*sits back down*

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Robin Netherton wrote:
> 
> Here's my thought: As the sleeves of the overdresses tightened (which
> happened roughly around 1450-1460 in Flanders), there was no need to have
> a long-sleeved underdress, because the overdress covered the lower arm
> completely. So women began wearing short-sleeved underdresses, which cut
> down on bulk on the arms. (Very slim arms seem to have been valued at this
> time.)
<...>
> This concept matches up satisfactorily to the artwork, which shows women
> in informal circumstances wearing the short-sleeved underdresses with
> pin-on sleeves; women in states of partial dress or distress wearing
> short-sleeved underdresses with chemise sleeves showing; and women in
> formal circumstances wearing tight-sleeved overdresses with no undersleeve
> visible.

For one of my favorite examples of this, one should see King Rene's Book
of Love.  I've thrown up close-ups of the relevant images here:  http://www.faucet.net/costume/shortsleeves.html

Melanie Schuessler
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 10:30:39 -0400
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Greetings--

> What is a "working" codpiece?  I always thought a codpiece was just a
vanity
> thing--padding-- so others couldn't size up the "real thing" under the
> tights.

A "working" codpiece is a flap (often seen buttoned or tied at the top),
usually triangular in shape, but not always padded or decorated--that
functions more or less like the modern fly front.

Susan

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I did it, I did it! I started my very first online dress diary.

http://www.kipar.org/dress-diary/

I personally love to read and follow those, so I hope you will enjoy as well.
Not so much on it yet, the insipratioon, design (bad, I know, but I'm not a
designer and have you ever tried to draw black on black with a black felt pen?
:-))), but now that I have the digicam I can finally count on being able to
take piccies.
As you can see it will be a quite accurate Elizabethan made from Margo's
patterns, but with unhistorical fabrics, fantasy decorations and some fantasy
special designs like the collar and the cape.
I have over one year to make it... yes, indeed, for me that is a short time, so
keep kicking me please to actually FINISH the project.

*grins*

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:43:34 -0600
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Oh, way cool! I just adore dress diaries, they're so interesting and
inspirational.  Funny picture of Teddy, too...he's about the only color
on the whole page !
You know, I actually *have* some shift-weight black linen I might be
persuaded to part with.  Also have bejillions of dark grey pearls
(glass) in various sizes.  I got them through FireMountain, here in the
U.S. Write me off-list, if you're interested?
You've got me thinking that if I ever did a similar costume, I think I'd
do a "Red Queen" from Alice in Wonderland (or is it Alice Through the
Looking Glass).  There's nothing very ethereal or otherworldly about me
AT ALL, but by-gawd I've got a voice that can be (all to easily) a
combination of every Marine drill-sargeant and Mother-in-Law ever
known.  I could do a great "Off with her head."
And yes, I've had that "in the dark" experience, too.  Sometimes, woman
is just *meant* to stay home in the cave/hut/house, near the fire, as
night folds itself around everything *out there* [and of course, that
goes for men as well!]
--sue, looking forward to future developments!

N Kipar wrote:
> 
> I did it, I did it! I started my very first online dress diary.
> 
> http://www.kipar.org/dress-diary/
> 
> I personally love to read and follow those, so I hope you will enjoy as well.
> Not so much on it yet, the insipratioon, design (bad, I know, but I'm not a
> designer and have you ever tried to draw black on black with a black felt pen?
> :-))), but now that I have the digicam I can finally count on being able to
> take piccies.
> As you can see it will be a quite accurate Elizabethan made from Margo's
> patterns, but with unhistorical fabrics, fantasy decorations and some fantasy
> special designs like the collar and the cape.
> I have over one year to make it... yes, indeed, for me that is a short time, so
> keep kicking me please to actually FINISH the project.
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:47:59 -0600
Status: RO

A working codpiece would be one that was tied/buttoned on in such a way
as to allow functional access for -uhm- personal hygiene reasons, etc. 
A non-functional one would be more costumey--just sewn in place to
*look* like a real codpiece.
As I understand, codpieces (decorative touches aside ) originally
developed out of a need to cover the gap left in the front area when
gentlemen wore their hose in separate pieces (left leg, right leg).
--sue

Land of Oz wrote:
> 
> I have been enjoying the writings on this web page. Thanks for the link!
> 
> I have a question for costumers out there (after reading Men in Tights). . .
> 
> What is a "working" codpiece?  I always thought a codpiece was just a vanity
> thing--padding-- so others couldn't size up the "real thing" under the
> tights.
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Outing fabric stashes
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Hi, Nicole.  My name is Sue, and I'm a fabric hoarder, too! (waving
hello from 6000 miles away)
My most favorite piece of fabric (that'll never get made into a garment)
is a piece of silk that I inherited from my grandfather. It's 40? 50?
years old--originally a stark-white silk satin, it has mellowed slightly
to a light cream color.  One whole end is covered with embroidered
red-silk flowers.  He was given it as a thank-you for helping serve as a
sponsor to a Chinese man who was escaping the Cultural Revolution.  The
gentleman also wrote him a poem, which I also have.  Not only is it
beautiful fabric, but I cherish it because it's one of the few bits I
have that connects me to my grandfather, whom I never really knew, but
apparently resemble in terms of talents, etc.
I've also been holding on to a lovely piece of dark green glove-weight
sueded leather (over a decade now, I think).  Some day it will become a
doublet based on the man's suit in Arnold's PoF (1560-1620), which is
this lovely cream leather appliqued to satin, with parts of the leather
then cut away to reveal the satin underneath.....
And I've got this lovely piece of red wool twill, that I have had for
almost as long as the leather.  I keep changing centuries with
it...right now, it waffles between wanting to be a gothic fitted gown or
a yummy GermanRen.
And last year, I lucked into this amazing brocade (an upholstery fabric,
but what the heck...), that's a dark grey-on-black pattern, and is as
close to a duplicate of this fabric in this one portrait of a late-16th
c. English woman.....I'd always sworn that I'd never, *ever* be caught
(dead or alive) in one of those french farthingales, but that's exactly
what this fabric *needs.*  I *will*, however, lose weight before I go to
all that trouble, so the fabric may be in the stash a while! 
And then, I've got this sweet white handkerchief linen, which I found
14? years ago as two partial bolts at a local fabric store, and which
I've never been able to find more of.  It's not as fine and sheer as the
lovely historical linens I saw recently, but it's the closest I've ever
seen, and (best of all), it has the same thread count (about 57/inch) in
both directions.  I use it only for my garments (shifts, coifs, etc)
that need counted-thread embroidery.  If there's any left when I die, I
just may have to request that it be buried with me, as part of my
"hoard" for the afterlife!
--Sue



N Kipar wrote:
> 
> 
> Nicole - loving owner of certain fabrics for too many years just because they
> are so lovely that I don't dare make anything out of it, it feels nothing would
> do the lovely fabric justice. Are there others out there who have the same
> problem??? *outs herself*
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 10:17:37 -0600
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I'm a "graduate" of Stephen's system, and I must say, it's made my life
(costuming and otherwise) much, much easier.
My fabric stash was in any number of disintegrating cardboard boxes,
bags, stacked haphazardly in closets, etc.  Looking for anything was a
nightmare.....
And then I saw the light .  The inventory process, which took
better parts of my free time one whole winter, was involved and messy,
but Oh, the Order! that reigned when I was done.  I ended up with 8
large Rubbermaid bins of fabric (a couple were also half-done projects),
one of "notions" (everything from bags of color-sorted threads to corset
bones), and several large (clear, smaller than fabric bins) boxes for my
trims, embroidery, and beading supplies.  And a really huge pile of 3x5
index cards.
What this allowed me to do, for one thing, was see just how much I'd
accumulated and never used, and probably never would.  My costuming and
sewing needs have changed over the years, and I've been going through a
real sea-change as far as my "authenticity" levels go.  I made the
conscious decision to weed out everything I'd never have a use for, and
I've given away/sold 3? bins of the stuff so far, including one whole
bin of miscellaneous stuff as clothing donations for our (new) King and
Queen (I'm in the SCA). I'm down to one bin each: silk, wool, linen, and
tapestry/brocades.  And a bin of non-costuming fabrics, intended for
work clothes and such.
Now I'm stuck trying to figure out what to do with my
no-longer-appropriate trims!
--Sue

> "Cabbage Rose"  wrote:
> > Stephen! That's fabulous.  Since somehow this post took weeks to get to the
> > list, I had to stumble on the system myself, but basically used a version
> of
> > yours.  I keep my theater costumes in my locker and my fabric stash in my
> > home, so I used those big zippered clear bags you can get at Bed, Bath &
> > Beyond and sorted the fabric by color (black is a whole bag), uses or types
> > (skin/mesh, felt) and lastly I did bags of my personal clothing fabric and
> > costuming fabric, with Ren being it's own category. It's more visual, but
> my
> > stash is probably smaller than yours (at least for now).
> >
> > As you mentioned in your article, I had a similar experience retrieving
> > fabric after the sorting.  I went to get a piece of fabric I've been saving
> > to make a frothy blouse and snapped it up in 10 seconds instead of the
> usual
> > hour or two I take looking in all the shopping bags.  It will require some
> > self-discipline to add new fabric to the inventory, but once you've spent
> > the time to get it squared away, that's nothing.
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From: carol 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need advice/suggestions for giornea pattern
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Thank you Bella for your help, the pictures were very helpful as was the definition you sent .... based on the information, I feel like I have a good idea of where to go from here
Many thanks
Carol
 Bella wrote:--- carol wrote: > 
> Greetings one and all .....
> Can any one suggest a website with good pictures of
> late 15th/early 16th century Italian clothing ? I
> am particularly looking for good pictures of a
> garment called a giornea, both front and back, so I
> can get an idea of how to construct said garment. 
> Or, if anyone has patterns or instructions, that
> would most helpful ...
> Thanks in advance
> Carol


According to the glossary from "Dress in Renaissance
Italy, 1400-1500", a giornea (for a female, although
there is also a male version) is:

"GIORNEA (F). An overdress, open in front and down the
sides, to allow the textile of the cotta worn
underneath to show through. The giornea is quite often
longer at the back of the hem, offering a sweeping
profile in movement. It may or may not have detached
sleeves. It is a summer garment, worn more often in
Florence than further north, where the pellanda, with
open or closed long sleeves, is more suitable for most
of the year. Sometimes, however, the giornea is lined
with fur, in which case it may be worn during the
cooler months. It appears to be a garment normally
worn by the young. In a law of 1456, the giornea is
associated with the cioppa, both being garments worn
directly over the cotta. It was stated that women were
allowed up to two silk overgarments -- to be worn at
separate times -- one for winter, the other for
summer. It could be a cioppa, or a giornea, whichever
was preferred, with one cotta for wearing underneath
(Polidori Calamandrei, p. 44)."

Vangelissta has kindly webbed the glossary, and you
can find it here:



Lucrezia Tornabuoni wears one in this painting:




Period Patterns #41 includes a pattern for one of
these (they call it a tabard - first lady on the lower
left):



There's also a Simplicity pattern that might be
suitable:







=====
Lady Bella Lucia da Verona
Innilgard, Lochac

The Realm of Venus
http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona
Owner, Courtesan E-mail Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan

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- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends
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....you cease to mourn the morning when you celebrate the night .....

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Thank you Bella for your help, the pictures were very helpful as was the definition you sent .... based on the information, I feel like I have a good idea of where to go from here

Many thanks

Carol

 Bella wrote:

--- carol wrote: > 
> Greetings one and all .....
> Can any one suggest a website with good pictures of
> late 15th/early 16th century Italian clothing ? I
> am particularly looking for good pictures of a
> garment called a giornea, both front and back, so I
> can get an idea of how to construct said garment. 
> Or, if anyone has patterns or instructions, that
> would most helpful ...
> Thanks in advance
> Carol


According to the glossary from "Dress in Renaissance
Italy, 1400-1500", a giornea (for a female, although
there is also a male version) is:

"GIORNEA (F). An overdress, open in front and down the
sides, to allow the textile of the cotta worn
underneath to show through. The giornea is quite often
longer at the back of the hem, offering a sweeping
profile in mov!
ement. It may or may not have detached
sleeves. It is a summer garment, worn more often in
Florence than further north, where the pellanda, with
open or closed long sleeves, is more suitable for most
of the year. Sometimes, however, the giornea is lined
with fur, in which case it may be worn during the
cooler months. It appears to be a garment normally
worn by the young. In a law of 1456, the giornea is
associated with the cioppa, both being garments worn
directly over the cotta. It was stated that women were
allowed up to two silk overgarments -- to be worn at
separate times -- one for winter, the other for
summer. It could be a cioppa, or a giornea, whichever
was preferred, with one cotta for wearing underneath
(Polidori Calamandrei, p. 44)."

Vangelissta has kindly webbed the glossary, and you
can find it here:



Lucrezia Tornabuoni wears one in this!
 painting:




Period Patterns #41 includes a pattern for one of
these (they call it a tabard - first lady on the lower
left):



There's also a Simplicity pattern that might be
suitable:







=====
Lady Bella Lucia da Verona
Innilgard, Lochac

The Realm of Venus
http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona
Owner, Courtesan E-mail Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS
- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 29 13:00:10 2002
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Sheryl Nance-Durst 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabricaholic Outing
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 12:02:35 -0500
Status: RO

Ooohh! I like this thread! It's like window shopping. 

Nicole wrote:
>*stands up and frets*
>
>Hi, I am Nicole, and I have several fabrics that I bought YEARS ago and just
>cannot get myself to cut into/make something out of it, because I am waiting
>(probably forever) for the PERFECT pattern/era/reason/you name it.



>These are my three favourite babies. Which ones are yours?

I'd have to say my favorite is the chocolate brown ultrasuede I got for $18
per yard. (Yes, 50% off!) I know I can't afford it at the regular price, so I
just love having it around. Let's see...I think I've had it for about 8 
years now.

Anyone else?

Sheryl Nance-Durst

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 29 13:00:23 2002
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Mara was replying to a question about tied-on sleeves
and mentions that Diderot shows a diagram of a French
countrywoman's jacket (1760 she thought) with tied-on
sleeves.  Can someone reference me this book or site? 
Even if I don't need the information or diagram now I
will undoubtedly need it later so I'll ask now. 
Thanks.
                 Cassandra

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Subject: [h-cost] Ultrasuede sale (was: Fabricaholic Outing)
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On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Sheryl Nance-Durst wrote:

> I'd have to say my favorite is the chocolate brown ultrasuede I got
> for $18 per yard. (Yes, 50% off!) I know I can't afford it at the
> regular price, so I just love having it around. Let's see...I think
> I've had it for about 8 years now.

Fashion Fabrics Outlet, where I work part-time, is selling off its
ultrasuede at $20/yard. That's the price on the website, too --
. It won't say "ultrasuede" on the
website, but that's what it is. (It says "Famous Maker Suede.") The
Ultrasuede supplier apparently gave the owner some hassle because he was
pricing it "too low," so the owner said the hell with it, he'd sell out
what he has and not carry it anymore. So, it's at bargain-basement price
now.

We have it at $20/yard in the store, and it's $40-$60 at other stores in
town.

--Robin

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> Now I'm stuck trying to figure out what to do with my
> no-longer-appropriate trims!
> --Sue


ebay!


Denise

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 10:24:11 -0700
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_Everyday Dress_ doesn't seem to be available through amazon.com, but I'm
sure you could find it in your local library.

I'm thumping myself on the head re: my suggestion to look for photographs
(yes you're right, too early) -- BUT there was such interest in the early
factor system, especially in Lowell (Mass.), that I'm sure there are
engravings and drawings that include the women workers.

There are some interesting images here, including a drawing of a mill girl
from 1840 (I know, a bit too late):
http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/americanstudies/lavender/lowell.html

- Kendra

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cabbage Rose" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond


> The era "name" should be helpful.  Are there actual photographs?pictures
> from that era (isn't it too early) or portraiture?  I do believe it's a
mill
> that they are employed at in Les Miz.  I'll see if I can find a copy of
the
> book. Is it in print?


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Sep 29 14:02:16 2002
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I'll stand and admit to my stash also.  Not only do I
costume I also quilt so I own long lengths of clothing
fabrics and hundreds of little pieces for quilting.  I
do have an inventory system, one for each type of
sewing.
    Costume question for all the 19th century
specialists out there.  Would fabrics that found their
way into a scrap or utility quilt actually have been
leftovers from clothing or would there have been
certain fabrics for quilts or home dec that no one
would have been caught wearing?  Several fabric
companies make historically accurate fabric lines
based on the quilts in museums or the sample books
from the mills but could we use these same lines of
cottons to make working class dress for our museum
replicas?
                          Cassandra

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From: Jean Waddie 
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You mention "tights" here.  The answer to your question lies in the fact 
that what men were wearing on their legs were not tights or trousers, 
but hose.  Hose were originally two separate legs, fastened up to a belt 
or braies ("drawers").  When they were joined up, (date anyone? 
14th-15th century?)  they joined up first at the back, and the codpiece 
is the part that covers the front.  At this time, men's underwear would 
be briefs, pretty similar to modern briefs, and a long shirt that was 
tucked in and around tidily.  The hose come round to a fairly narrow 
opening at the front, but there is a gap of a few inches.  The codpiece 
is basically triangular (with shaping because men aren't flat in that 
area!).  The narrow part is sewn on at the crotch, and the two corners 
tie up to the waist of the hose.  When necessary, the ties are undone to 
let the codpiece down.  I guess that's the essence of a "working" 
codpiece - that it fastens and unfastens.

Jean


Land of Oz  wrote
>I have been enjoying the writings on this web page. Thanks for the link!
>
>I have a question for costumers out there (after reading Men in Tights). . .
>
>What is a "working" codpiece?  I always thought a codpiece was just a vanity
>thing--padding-- so others couldn't size up the "real thing" under the
>tights.
>
>Denise
>landofoz@netins.net
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
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-- 
Jean Waddie
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 14:40:47 -0400
Status: RO

The nineteenth century document prints that are available now can be
terrific for reproduction clothing, with a few cautions.  It's important to
know:

-  Is this one of the original colorways?  Most patterns are produced in
several color schemes.  Some of them will be copied from original fabrics,
others are color combinations that are pleasing to the modern eye but not
appropriate period color combinations.

-  Is the pattern the same size/scale as the original?  If it has been
reduced or enlarged it may be ok, it may not.

-  Was it originally used for apparel?  Some companies are reproducing both
apparel and home decor patterns. Victorian women didn't wear garments that
matched the upholstery or draperies, and neither should we.

Unfortunately, 99% of the fabric shops out there won't be able to supply
this information.  You can ask the manufacturer and/or designer; many of
them are quite willing to share this information.  Otherwise, your best bet
is research:  naturally  original fabrics and garments are your best source,
but there are a few books that are great references for studying textile
patterns.

I'm not a quilt expert, but most of the original quilts that I've examined
have used what appears to be dress weight goods.  That doesn't mean they
didn't cannabalize someone's drapery scraps, but it doesn't seem that
common.

Carolann Schmitt
cschmitt@genteelarts.com
www.genteelarts.com
Ladies of the 1860s Conference, March 7-9, 2003

>>Costume question for all the 19th century specialists out there.  Would
fabrics that found their way into a scrap or utility quilt actually have
been leftovers from clothing or would there have been certain fabrics for
quilts or home dec that no one would have been caught wearing?  Several
fabric companies make historically accurate fabric lines based on the quilts
in museums or the sample books from the mills but could we use these same
lines of cottons to make working class dress for our museum replicas?<<




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I have receved some fabric from my mil that she had gotten when her mother 
was still alive.  She died in 1976.  I have made some of it up into shirts.  
I still have part because I couldn't find a project I wanted to do out of it. 
 One piece is a torq. blue with a open flower weave to it.  Very lovely but 
not much of it as she had cut something out of it--part of a dress I believe. 
 I did one piece that had little squares and dots on it.  The thing about 
some of her old stuff is they are only 35 inches wide and short lengths.  It 
doesn't always work for me as I wear looser stuff and I have a waist and 
chest. :)  
I have lots of material I have boughten over the years.  It is really coming 
in handy right now as my husband hasn't been working since March of this 
year.  I haven't had the funds to buy anything since he has been laid off.  I 
miss buying fabric but I still look online and at stores some to keep 
current.
Kelly
m311@aol.com
www.rsvp-4u.com

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I have receved some fabric from my mil that she had gotten when her mother was still alive.  She died in 1976.  I have made some of it up into shirts.  I still have part because I couldn't find a project I wanted to do out of it.  One piece is a torq. blue with a open flower weave to it.  Very lovely but not much of it as she had cut something out of it--part of a dress I believe.  I did one piece that had little squares and dots on it.  The thing about some of her old stuff is they are only 35 inches wide and short lengths.  It doesn't always work for me as I wear looser stuff and I have a waist and chest. :)  

I have lots of material I have boughten over the years.  It is really coming in handy right now as my husband hasn't been working since March of this year.  I haven't had the funds to buy anything since he has been laid off.  I miss buying fabric but I still look online and at stores some to keep current.

Kelly

m311@aol.com

www.rsvp-4u.com

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From: "Cabbage Rose" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 17:55:18 -0700
Status: RO

I figured you meant graphics anyway, so no need to thump. I found the book
with an ABE search and since I do so much theater, I went ahead and bought
it.  We're always dressing the peasants, so it will come in handy to have a
book that isn't designed to show only the upper classes.

I just have to wait for it to arrive!

I'm thinking I'll do mostly dresses with aprons, which seems to be what they
did in the pics of the show that I just looked up.   They don't need to all
be correct if enough of them have the right narrow sleeve.  I'd just really
like an idea of what would have been real so I can use it as a base to
creatively change the whole darn thing!

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design
"So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not
I have used my credit."
King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond


> _Everyday Dress_ doesn't seem to be available through amazon.com, but I'm
> sure you could find it in your local library.
>
> I'm thumping myself on the head re: my suggestion to look for photographs
> (yes you're right, too early) -- BUT there was such interest in the early
> factor system, especially in Lowell (Mass.), that I'm sure there are
> engravings and drawings that include the women workers.
>
> There are some interesting images here, including a drawing of a mill girl
> from 1840 (I know, a bit too late):
> http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/americanstudies/lavender/lowell.html
>
> - Kendra
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cabbage Rose" 
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
>
>
> > The era "name" should be helpful.  Are there actual photographs?pictures
> > from that era (isn't it too early) or portraiture?  I do believe it's a
> mill
> > that they are employed at in Les Miz.  I'll see if I can find a copy of
> the
> > book. Is it in print?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 21:25:28 -0700
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> (snip) I'm assuming you have the rights to the show and so have guidelines
as to how much of the >'look' you can do. Try to give Fantine her blue
dress. There will be crowds of fans and this is
> something that is a real key look. Just as Eponines flat cap and sleevles
..chemise
> type top and skirt with wide belt are.
>
We do indeed, have the license for the rights to perform the show, but the
costume design will be original.  I wouldn't be interested in a redux of
another's designs, but will redefine the show within the look that works for
the music & period, according to the way it moves me.  For me the art is in
the reinterpretation.  I don't think our audience will be expecting us to
replicate Broadway, and it would be news to me if the rights deal with the
costumes in any way. Usually if one is paying for rights to a costumer for a
design, one would have to be renting the set used in any particular
production.  We aren't, so I don't think it's an issue.

> Well the actual show grabs costume info from the 18thC even as during the
> factory and whore pit scenes there are usually a number of conical corset
> shapes to be found.

 When you say conical corsets, what exactly do you mean?  Were they late18th
C? That would make sense, since the scene is in 1815, I suppose they could
just have old hand-me-down clothes on.  It's not critical, as I will be
redefining the look, but I am curious. I've seen the show twice, but it's
been quite a while.

I'm a huge fan of the show, so I know what you mean about the music.  It
makes me cry every time I hear it too. I've even got the original French
concept album.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design
"If we shadows have offended, think but this,
 and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here,
 while these visions did appear."
A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare

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From: kris 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabricaholic Outing
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Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 21:30:09 -0700
Status: RO

Keep in mind that I've only been sewing for 4 years, so my stash isn't as 
huge as some peoples are :] My 2 favorites...
#1 1 metre of gorgeous rusty colored 100% drapey linen (it's hard for me to 
find linen that drapes & isn't stiff when I dry it) I'm wanting to make a 
corset out of it, since I only have a little, but can't make up my mind as 
to time, or even if it's the right project!

#2.. this blinding hot pink 100% wool, found in a thrift shop for $1CAD. It 
has pinstripes of Kelly green, electric blue, orange and yellow! I'm 
wanting to make an outfit to wear in the morning, SCA time period. I'm 
wavering between a 14th c. over-gown (I have electric blue linen to go 
under it) and warm wooly middle eastern (its cold at night :] )

kris..
who's sewing machine is getting fixed.. yay!

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From: Robin Netherton 
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Subject: [h-cost] Articles, hem trims (was: Thanks Robin)
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 00:38:16 -0500 (CDT)
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Cascio Michael wrote:

> Is the TI article on the Norman gown available on-line somewhere?

Sorry, no, and the original publication (in the Costume Research Journal)  
is sold out. If you don't know someone in the SCA who has a copy of the
Winter 2002 TI to loan you, I believe you can buy a back issue if you
want.

>      Obligatory costume question?  How good are the Norris books on
> the sketches of period trims?  Can I embroider a hem with a pattern
> from one of his sketches and have it be authentic?

Embroidered trims aren't my area, but in general I'd trust decorative
details in Norris not even as far as I could throw the book. Sometimes he
does draw information from period sources, but unless you can nail down
which source, and can compare it to the original, I wouldn't suggest
relying on Norris's version as "authentic."

And then you have the additional problem of whether the artwork
accurately reflects what would have been on a garment. But at least with
period artwork, you're going to get something that someone of that period
considered appropriate for an image of the garment, not something that
someone in the 19th or 20th century preferred.

But that's assuming the depiction is meant to be realistic in the first
place. I have the sense that decorated hems on (floor-length) women's
medieval (e.g. pre-Tudor) clothing were not nearly so common as some
costume books would like us to believe. (Men's clothing may differ,
particularly when the garments were shorter.) There may be a
period/culture/style somewhere in the Western Middle Ages in which
decorated hems for non-royal women are appropriate, but I can't think of
one offhand. Most of the decorated hems I remember seeing in artwork
depict royalty, saints, angels, allegorical figures, or similar. In some
periods of artwork, a decorated hem is a tipoff that you may be looking at
a "special" (non-realistic) figure. That goes double for jeweled hems.

Not all edge decoration (when you do see it) means embroidery. Some
examples appear more likely to be bands (possibly tabletwoven).

I haven't made a close study of this outside of a few narrow time/place
contexts, so I'd be perfectly happy if someone proves these off-the-cuff
generalizations to be wrong for some particular place and time.

--Robin




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Subject: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball Reminder
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:39:45 -0400
Status: RO

Just a reminder that the Online Costume Ball 2002 starts Tuesday.  If you
want to be some of the first guests send your entry to
costume.ball@costumegallery.com .  You may find the directions to enter the
Ball go to www.onlinecostumeball.com .  Run your cursor over the large image
and you will see the link "How to Become a Guest".

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 02:43:32 2002
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From: "Mary Temple" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabricaholic Outing
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 06:44:39 +0000
Status: RO

Hi, my name is Mary...and I'm a fabricaholic! (Stands tall and proud - I'm 
following in my mother's footsteps!)

One of my favorite pieces would be the silver grey silk brocade I made a 
forepart and undersleeves out of for my wedding dress - I occasionally pull 
it out to fondle it.

I have several scrumptious saris I purchased through ebay that I have no 
clue what I'll ever do with - but they were simply too beautiful to pass by.

And then there's the emerald green wool with jewel tone paisleys embroidered 
along one of the borders - it'll eventually be a properly fitted sheath 
dress. (Once I loose that ten pounds I put on this summer! )

Mary/Katerine

>Okay Carol, I out my favourite fabrics.\
>
>*stands up and frets*
>
>Hi, I am Nicole, and I have several fabrics that I bought YEARS ago and 
>just
>cannot get myself to cut into/make something out of it, because I am 
>waiting
>(probably forever) for the PERFECT pattern/era/reason/you name it.
>
>There is this absolutely gorgeous goldy creamy upholstery fabric with the 
>most
>beautiful 16th century large pattern. I have 5.3 meters and it is wide too, 
>1.3
>m. I bought it back in, uhm... 1993? *whimper*
>
>The next one is this fantastic 18th century striped pattern with pale cream
>yellow and green stripes with dark green lovely curlicues, upholstery too, 
>but
>impossible to tell. I have enough for an 18th c. waistcoat, about 2 meters,
>but... I bought it back in 1994 or 5.
>
>I got this lovely big piece of finest buff coloured kid glove leather from 
>my
>BF's mum for Christmas 1997, who sadly passed away this year. One day I 
>will
>learn how to make gloves.. honest...
>
>These are my three favourite babies. Which ones are yours?
>
>*sits back down*
>
>Nicole
>
>=====
>Nicole Kipar M.A.
>L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
>Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/
>Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 04:04:13 2002
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From: "Jennifer Sena" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabricaholic Outing
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:05:10 -0700
Status: RO




>From: kris 
>#2.. this blinding hot pink 100% wool, found in a thrift shop for $1CAD. It 
>has pinstripes of Kelly green, electric blue, orange and yellow! I'm 
>wanting to make an outfit to wear in the morning, SCA time period.

I made a "morning after", "run to the biffies" coat with 2-3" bright purple 
fur lining a vibrant almost tie-dye polar fleece outer layer.  It's to get 
even with all the revelers who were having fun late into the night.  Just 
seeing me running by their tents will make them sea sick.   giggling 
maniacally.  OK, I used to be one of them, but now that I'm old and can't 
drink I have to find SOME way to have fun.  ;)

OK, on topic.  My favorite stash piece is my slate blue and black reversible 
brocade.  It has roses spaced over most of the panel and a lovely filligree 
looking border about 15" wide.  I think the panels were 62"wide and over a 
yard long.  I don't remember exactly right now.  I have ten panels and it 
will eventually become a fully hooped 1850-60 evening gown.


Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 04:35:19 2002
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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabricaholic Outing
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:36:38 -0700
Status: RO

Funniest thing I ever heard someone say, when I was working in a fabric 
store, was "Oh, I can't buy that - it won't fit in my fabric drawer."

>Keep in mind that I've only been sewing for 4 years, so my stash isn't as 
>huge as some peoples are :]

My personal favourite pieces of cloth:

The real cloth-of-silver a now-deceased friend gave me (real antique)

The sedate red and blue paisley sweatshirt stuff I got at some thrift store 
(probably 1960s, don't know why but I just like it)

The metallic-silver-printed maroon wool I got at an antique store (real 
antique)

The green and orange semi-iridescent plastic mermaidy stuff (for science 
fiction or fibre art)

The silk knit (mundane underwear someday)

The expensive French lace yardage, one piece each black and white

The corduroy-like stuff which is yellow underneath, visible thru 
raspberry-pink pile (not as bad as it sounds, made an 1880s Dolman with 
part of it, which looks ok)

The Jessica McClintock lace appliques (I have a box of these, and will do 
something Edwardian-evening with them - eventually)

The pink saree remnant with metal sequins on it

The blue cotton kimono fabric with playing cards printed on it (actually 
cut out...)

Kayta

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 08:45:18 2002
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 05:46:29 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Getting ready to go to the museum and DH thought the
list might me able to answer this question.  How long
did it take for a fashion plate look to get from Paris
to New York to Chicago and then downstate.  My only
reference so far is from a fashion plate book that
states that the author has found a single fashion
plate published in Paris that is repeated in a fashion
magazine in America dated 11 months later.  This is
dated for the 1850s and I'm looking for the 1840s. 
I'm assuming that travel times didn't change much from
the 1840s to the 1850s so it would be at least the 11
months for the publications to decide to print the
plate.  I'm also leaping to the conclusion that even
if the plate got to America in only six months the
magazine would have waited to publish it until it was
in season again.  Then we have the question of how
long the post office would take to go New York to
Chicago to downstate (and I know it was New York to
Chicago to downstate, employee of the post office
dontcha know).  We've already decided that working
class farm women wouldn't adopt the most extreme of
the fashions anyway and would remake as much of their
old clothing so this also limits our design choices.
So any thoughts on how much time lag between the
appearance of a style in a fashion plate and its
appearance in someone's closet would be greatly
appreciated.  The 1840s just seems to be on overlooked
era as it's too late for Regency and too early for
ACW.  And I think it may be too early for the Gold
Rush out west but I'm doing Illinois anyway.  Thanks.
                                Cassandra 



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 09:31:22 2002
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:32:12 EDT
Status: RO

I was going through a Harris Poll Online survey this morning.  Every so 
often, they throw in little "what do you think" questions -- I'd guess it's 
either to help sort their survey answerers or it's stuff that's too short for 
a full survey.  One of the toss-in questions for today's survey was:

"Do you believe that sewing machines are outdated in the modern world?"

I don't think I need to add anything to this ....

Leah
    
    


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 09:38:29 2002
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From: "Betsy Marshall" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] 'Evil Queen' dress diary
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:39:48 -0500
Status: RO

Cool fun being able to watch your project from the beginning, I hope we will
all be inspired.
Looking at your moonstones, you might also consider looking for/at
opalescent glass shapes, they look quite similar to your pictures, and would
be miles less expensive, particularly in bulk..
I should be able to round up a few on-line sources, but I'm in Texas, not
the UK.
Keep up the good work! with great admiration, Betsy
-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of N Kipar
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 9:55 AM


I did it, I did it! I started my very first online dress diary.

http://www.kipar.org/dress-diary/

I personally love to read and follow those, so I hope you will enjoy as
well.
Not so much on it yet, the insipratioon, design (bad, I know, but I'm not a
designer and have you ever tried to draw black on black with a black felt
pen?
:-))), but now that I have the digicam I can finally count on being able to
take piccies.
As you can see it will be a quite accurate Elizabethan made from Margo's
patterns, but with unhistorical fabrics, fantasy decorations and some
fantasy
special designs like the collar and the cape.
I have over one year to make it... yes, indeed, for me that is a short time,
so
keep kicking me please to actually FINISH the project.

*grins*

Nicole

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 09:53:19 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] travel lag
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Cascio Michael wrote:

> How long did it take for a fashion plate look to get from Paris to New
> York to Chicago and then downstate....
> So any thoughts on how much time lag between the appearance
> of a style in a fashion plate and its appearance in someone's closet
> would be greatly appreciated.

Wow, that would make a great dissertation topic.

If this were my period of interest, and I had a few years to spare, I
would try collecting local photographs (if available) and portraits and
descriptions from the target area and matching them against known
publications of the same period to see when specific details appear in
each.

But this is way out of my area...

--Robin


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 09:58:32 2002
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 --- LLWatts@aol.com wrote: > 
> "Do you believe that sewing machines are outdated in the modern world?"

*tongue firmly in cheek*

Ohhh, but of course they are. I always hand-sew my historical costumes....
*LOL*

Nicole - she with the high teck compi sewing machine

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 10:36:40 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Banyard
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Hello.
Dont know if i spelled this name correct. It is a mans overgarment 18th.
century. Banyard
I heard there should be a cutting diagram in an old issue of "Costume" (the
costume society, England)
Does anybody have this? Would you please tell me wich number it is so that i
could look for it at the library?
I was looking at a portrait of James Boswell. He is wearing such a garment
trimmed with fur.
I surely would like to make such an attire for my embroidered suit, if i go
to Stockholm in the autumn, it would be lovely warm.
Thanks
Bjarne



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 10:40:50 2002
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Cascio Michael wrote:
> 
> Getting ready to go to the museum and DH thought the
> list might me able to answer this question.  How long
> did it take for a fashion plate look to get from Paris
> to New York to Chicago and then downstate. 

Joan Severa, in one of my all-time favorite books (as anyone who's been
on this list awhile knows!) _Dressed for the Photographer:  Ordinary
Americans & Fashion, 1840-1900_, uses hairstyles to augment dress
details in her dating because hairstyles are much easier to change, and
many of the people in the photographs she analyzes are likely to be a
bit out of date clothing-wise.  (Perhaps you already have it, but if
not, this might be a good regional source for you, as she was the
costume curator at the WI Historical Society, so many of the photos are
from Wisconsin.)

If you have some photographs to work with, you could pay minute
attention to the hairstyles to date them, then compare the fashions with
contemporary fashion plates to guess the lag.  Joan may address this
question, but I'm not certain--I haven't actually read the (huge) book
in a while.

Good luck!
Melanie Schuessler
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 10:53:31 2002
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From: "Joan Broneske" 
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Next they will be asking if "clothes are outdated in the modern world" ;)



                        ,%%%,
Joan Broneske       --==% `%%%,
unicorn@softcom.net     |' )`%%,
                        \_/\ @%%,
                          __@@" %%%--"""-.%,
                        /`__|             \%%
                        \\  \   /   |     /'%,
                         \]  | /----'.   < `%,
                             ||       `>> >
                             ||       ///`
                             /(      //(
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 6:32 AM
Subject: [h-cost] OT: Harris Poll Question


> I was going through a Harris Poll Online survey this morning.  Every so
> often, they throw in little "what do you think" questions -- I'd guess
it's
> either to help sort their survey answerers or it's stuff that's too short
for
> a full survey.  One of the toss-in questions for today's survey was:
>
> "Do you believe that sewing machines are outdated in the modern world?"
>
> I don't think I need to add anything to this ....
>
> Leah
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 11:23:51 2002
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:23:01 -0400
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I think Robin is right about the pin-on sleeves. But what exactly is going
on in that second drawing from King Rene's Book of Love? Is the woman going
to lace her dress so that it closes, or is it laced correctly already? If
so, I can see that the dress would be very practical to wear under something
else -- adjustable day by day, etc. But I can't imagine anyone wearing it
that way alone, with the chemise sticking out like that -- which would
negate the need for any pin-on sleeves! The gown looks like it couldn't be
laced any tighter than it is, but maybe it was just drawn that way. Does
anyone know?

Gail Finke


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Dear all, 

I am a student from Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts who is major in costume Technology. Now i am studying a module, professional field study, which requires the students to participate in field work in foreign countries.
 
Therefore, now i am looking for a placement chance, which will last for a month, in workshops or theatres in UK. And as a volunteer to be a helper in your workshop, i won't receive any salaries or wages during placement. I am really appreciated if you can offer me such a good chance to let me learn from you and participate in your workshop. 

Please kindly reply me by return. Thank you.
Please feel free to contact me for further details and profiles.  
My email address is: meou0918@sinagirl.com

Cat Wong


==================================================================
Ü´L°¸¹³¹aÁn¿ïÁ|¡Ghttp://sms.sina.com.hk/ringtone/


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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] copies and rare books
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Status: RO

It IS yummy -- the book is about an inch and a half thick and jam-packed
with color plates of 18th c. textiles of all kinds, from upholstery to
clothing to trim, along with definitions of various fabric types, and
information about their history and usage.  I believe it was originally
published by Wintherthur...  it's more or less THE bible of 18th c.
fabric.  It goes for $250 on upwards.  I got another book she wrote for
(only!) $100, because it had some water damage and no dust jacket, but
unfortunately that book focuses more on fabric for furnishings so it's not
as useful.

And dammit, they REALLY ought to reprint!  Then I can return the copy I've
borrowed from a friend, and get my own!  (Fortunately, he doesn't mind my
holding onto it, as long as I treat it with care and respect.)

Cheers,
Mara

On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Drea Leed wrote:
> Speaking of which, what is Montgomery's Textiles in America?  Sounds
> yummy.
>
> Drea

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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century corset, large
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Drea Leed wrote:
> My pattern tends to create a very flat-fronted and barrel-shaped form on
> larger women, and doesn't push the bust forward and round it like 18th
> c. stays should. Have you considered getting J.P. Ryan's 18th c. stays
> pattern and adapting that to a larger size? Larger women tend to be more
> squishable, too--some large women can take 6 inches off their waist when
> in a corset, without feeling much discomfort.

I think your corset direction could be used for 18th c. stays (and have
done so many times ), but you're right, for the late 18th c., one has
to alter the pattern a bit -- a curved piece of horizontal boning in the
front center section (to get that 'pouter pigeon' bust shape) helps.  I
use the corset pattern generator to get the basic shape, then look at the
18th c. stays in "Corsets and Crinolines" to alter it to an 18th c.
style.

Caveat: I've only done one set of stays for a larger woman, and those were
for 17th c. use, not 18th c.

Was at the Gadsby's Symposium the weekend before last, and went to a
staymaking lecture by Mark Hutter, the tailor/staymaker at Colonial
Williamsburg; he had some existing examples of 18th c. stays for us to
look at.  TRES cool!  One important observation (which I intend to use on
my next set of stays) is that stays for women who need more stomach
control have a center section that is shaped more like a 'U' than a 'V' --
which confirms one of my own observations/suspicions.  He also said
something about using a sort of 'shelf' inside the stays to support the
bust, but I didn't catch precisely what was said; I know that some women
who are larger busted do pin, baste or stuff a rolled up handkerchief
under their bust inside their stays, to help support them.

> I did see an 18th c corset in Washington DC which had one flaring piece
> from the waist down to the hips, rather than the usual series of tabs.
> This might be more sturdy than separate tabs for a larger woman.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Drea

Oooh, where'd you see it, Drea?  I live near/work in DC, and would like to
see it...  Am very interested in transitional styles!

Cheers,
Mara

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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
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Subject: [h-cost] Fabric/Costume storage, was Fabric stash inventory idea
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:51:01 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

Ok, question -- I've been trying to reorganize both my fabric stash and my
costumes.  To date, I've got the costumes either hung in a closet (with
mothballs or those closet hanger thingies that repel moths) or in big
rubbermaid containers with mothballs, when appropriate (no mothballs for
the cotton or linen, just the wool).

What is the best way to store this stuff?  I know that, for antique
clothing, an acid-free environment is best; but I'm not sure this stuff
warrants that much of a kid glove treatment.  Does the plastic from the
containers degrade the fabric at all, or am I worrying needlessly?

I also have a huge pile of cardboard boxes, having finally unpacked the
boxes of books in the basement, but am reluctant to use those as I'm
afraid the mice that somehow find their way into the basement each fall
will do so again this year, despite our efforts at plugging up their entry
points, and make nests in my fabric/costume stashes.  The fabric and
costumes are not in the basement -- yet -- but I really have to move them
down there at some point if I want to get this stuff organized.

Thoughts?

-- Mara

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 14:54:31 2002
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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
To: Historic Costume List 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of fabric stashes
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:55:40 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

Have you tried

http://www.trimfabric.com/

I bought some fabric from them last year -- did have a problem with my
order, but they made it right very quickly.

Has anyone else ordered from them?  If so, what is their track record?

-- Mara

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Robin Netherton wrote:

>
> I'm looking for a dress length of medium blue worsted wool -- about a
> Wedgewood blue, or a medium blue-jeans shade.
(snip)

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 14:56:35 2002
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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:57:33 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

Past Patterns has an (American) mill worker's dress for the 1830s, too,
as well as a dressier 1830s gown:

http://www.pastpatterns.com/1830.html

-- Mara

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Cabbage Rose wrote:

> Thanks, Kendra.
>
> The era "name" should be helpful.  Are there actual photographs?pictures
> from that era (isn't it too early) or portraiture?  I do believe it's a mill
> that they are employed at in Les Miz.  I'll see if I can find a copy of the
> book. Is it in print?
>
> angela

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 15:01:23 2002
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pin-on sleeves
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:36:04 -0400 (EDT)
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There are some examples of gowns with this amount of space between the
front lacings in later 15th century art.  Not many, but some. The placket
pinned over the top lacings is what is seen in the "V" neck of the outer
gown. There are a few pics of gowns like this, sans pinned placket and
with less space between the lacings, worn by women working in fields and
doing other menial labor.

Thanks to the poster of the pic, by the way!  I've been looking for a
good, large, close-up of this particular picture for quite some time.

Drea

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Gail & Scott Finke wrote:

>
> I think Robin is right about the pin-on sleeves. But what exactly is going
> on in that second drawing from King Rene's Book of Love? Is the woman going
> to lace her dress so that it closes, or is it laced correctly already? If
> so, I can see that the dress would be very practical to wear under something
> else -- adjustable day by day, etc. But I can't imagine anyone wearing it
> that way alone, with the chemise sticking out like that -- which would
> negate the need for any pin-on sleeves! The gown looks like it couldn't be
> laced any tighter than it is, but maybe it was just drawn that way. Does
> anyone know?
>
> Gail Finke
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: Drea Leed 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] copies and rare books
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You are very, very bad!  :)  And here christmas is coming up...

Thanks,

Drea

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote:

> It IS yummy -- the book is about an inch and a half thick and jam-packed
> with color plates of 18th c. textiles of all kinds, from upholstery to
> clothing to trim, along with definitions of various fabric types, and
> information about their history and usage.  I believe it was originally
> published by Wintherthur...  it's more or less THE bible of 18th c.
> fabric.  It goes for $250 on upwards.  I got another book she wrote for
> (only!) $100, because it had some water damage and no dust jacket, but
> unfortunately that book focuses more on fabric for furnishings so it's not
> as useful.
>
> And dammit, they REALLY ought to reprint!  Then I can return the copy I've
> borrowed from a friend, and get my own!  (Fortunately, he doesn't mind my
> holding onto it, as long as I treat it with care and respect.)
>
> Cheers,
> Mara
>
> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Drea Leed wrote:
> > Speaking of which, what is Montgomery's Textiles in America?  Sounds
> > yummy.
> >
> > Drea
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: kat@grendal.rain.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Articles, hem trims (was: Thanks Robin)
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:04:17 -0700
Status: RO

> >      Obligatory costume question?  How good are the Norris books on
> > the sketches of period trims?  Can I embroider a hem with a pattern
> > from one of his sketches and have it be authentic?
> 
> Embroidered trims aren't my area, but in general I'd trust decorative
> details in Norris not even as far as I could throw the book. Sometimes
> he does draw information from period sources, but unless you can nail
> down which source, and can compare it to the original, I wouldn't
> suggest relying on Norris's version as "authentic."

I agree with this assessment of Norris. He has a tendency to 
"reinterpret" things to fit his own ideas and "morals". For example, 
each and every codpiece is carefully removed from the Tudor men's 
clothing.

He also did not do any footnoting. We know that he had access to some 
extant things that were destroyed in WWII. However, he also used such 
"wonderful" sources as Diderot for his Tudor and previous century 
stuff. (Diderot is very good for the things from his own time period, 
but literally made them up to fill the information gap in his 
encyclopedia for earlier stuff.)
 
Kat Russell


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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:05:43 -0400 (EDT)
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On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, michaela wrote:
> I wouldn't recommend being too bogged down in historical correctness... it's
> a really long show and many scenes are short so you need to be evocative in
> costume. So the whores are usually in garish make up with little on and that
> tattered even if they would really be rather normally dressed. But it's so
> brutal and what they are singing so nasty you need to emphasise it.

Oh, I dunno -- I saw the film version (I don't think it's a musical --
the movie draws on the book, and had Liam Neeson, Uma Thurman and
a bunch of other great actors in it), and they did, IMO, a very good job
of doing historically accurate costume.  Of course, I read the book before
I ever saw the musical, so maybe I see it a bit differently from those who
are seeing it from a strictly theatrical context.  Anyway, the Romantic
period is not my favorite costume era, but the costume director did a
great job of making the costumes look attractive anyway.

Cheers,
Mara

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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Diderot diagram?
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:16:21 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

I take it back, it's from Garsault:
http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Jackets/Jackets.htm

or http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Jackets/Juste.jpg

The diagram is also in Waugh's _Cut of Women's Clothes_.

Cheers,
Mara


On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Cascio Michael wrote:

> Mara was replying to a question about tied-on sleeves
> and mentions that Diderot shows a diagram of a French
> countrywoman's jacket (1760 she thought) with tied-on
> sleeves.  Can someone reference me this book or site?
> Even if I don't need the information or diagram now I
> will undoubtedly need it later so I'll ask now.
> Thanks.
>                  Cassandra
>
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From: Robin Netherton 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of fabric stashes
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I wrote:
> > I'm looking for a dress length of medium blue worsted wool -- about a
> > Wedgewood blue, or a medium blue-jeans shade.

Just to emphasize again: I'm looking to trade, not to buy. I have plenty
of really fine expensive worsteds, but not the right color -- and I can't
afford to buy fresh yardage right now.

-- Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 15:22:22 2002
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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
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On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Cabbage Rose wrote:
>  When you say conical corsets, what exactly do you mean?  Were they late18th
> C? That would make sense, since the scene is in 1815, I suppose they could
> just have old hand-me-down clothes on.  It's not critical, as I will be
> redefining the look, but I am curious. I've seen the show twice, but it's
> been quite a while.

One of the books I've got shows a prison with poor women in it, circa
1810, in England.  They're wearing Regency styles.

Another book from early 19th c. England is by Pyne -- I forget his name,
and the title of the book, sorry! -- and it shows higher waistlines than,
say, American RevWar styles, on very poor people.

So even poor women were trying to at least mirror the lines of current
fashion.

Cheers,
Mara

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 15:29:22 2002
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This is just a little before your dates, but a friend of mine has
researched styles around St. Louis, MO in the Regency period, and found
that the women there (and it certainly _was_ on the frontier at the
time) were at least trying to follow the latest lines of fashion, though
not in as extreme form or in as expensive fabrics as those in the cities.

Not a specific answer, but yes, I think that women on the frontier did at
least try to be 'fashionable' for their 'best wear'.  An old work dress
might be less fashionable than their best dress -- often old 'best'
dresses were demoted to work dress status when they got too worn to be
presentable or reworked in a later style.

Cheers,
Mara

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Cascio Michael wrote:

> Getting ready to go to the museum and DH thought the
> list might me able to answer this question.  How long
> did it take for a fashion plate look to get from Paris
> to New York to Chicago and then downstate.


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This is just a little before your dates, but a friend of mine has
researched styles around St. Louis, MO in the Regency period, and found
that the women there (and it certainly _was_ on the frontier at the
time) were at least trying to follow the latest lines of fashion, though
not in as extreme form or in as expensive fabrics as those in the cities.

Not a specific answer, but yes, I think that women on the frontier did at
least try to be 'fashionable' for their 'best wear'.  An old work dress
might be less fashionable than their best dress -- often old 'best'
dresses were demoted to work dress status when they got too worn to be
presentable or reworked in a later style.

Cheers,
Mara

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Cascio Michael wrote:

> Getting ready to go to the museum and DH thought the
> list might me able to answer this question.  How long
> did it take for a fashion plate look to get from Paris
> to New York to Chicago and then downstate.


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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyard
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>Dont know if i spelled this name correct. It is a mans overgarment 18th.
>century. Banyard

Banyan

>I heard there should be a cutting diagram in an old issue of "Costume" (the
>costume society, England)
>Does anybody have this? Would you please tell me wich number it is so that i
>could look for it at the library?
>I was looking at a portrait of James Boswell. He is wearing such a garment
>trimmed with fur.
>I surely would like to make such an attire for my embroidered suit, if i go
>to Stockholm in the autumn, it would be lovely warm.
>Thanks
>Bjarne
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


Kayta

    //// \\\
   ////-@@\\\
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   (((  <> ))))
      )   ((((((
/----\   /---\))

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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyard
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:32:46 -0400 (EDT)
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Could this be a 'Banyan', Bjarne?  They're a sort of 18th c. man's
dressing gown.

Cheers,
Mara


On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

> Hello.
> Dont know if i spelled this name correct. It is a mans overgarment 18th.
> century. Banyard
> I heard there should be a cutting diagram in an old issue of "Costume" (the
> costume society, England)
> Does anybody have this? Would you please tell me wich number it is so that i
> could look for it at the library?
> I was looking at a portrait of James Boswell. He is wearing such a garment
> trimmed with fur.
> I surely would like to make such an attire for my embroidered suit, if i go
> to Stockholm in the autumn, it would be lovely warm.
> Thanks
> Bjarne
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 15:39:43 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:44:28 -0500 (CDT)
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote:

> This is just a little before your dates, but a friend of mine has
> researched styles around St. Louis, MO in the Regency period, and
> found that the women there (and it certainly _was_ on the frontier at
> the time) were at least trying to follow the latest lines of fashion,
> though not in as extreme form or in as expensive fabrics as those in
> the cities.

A bit later, and not a good source for documentation, but just as a fun
note for flavor: Isn't there a passage in one of the later books in the
"Little House" series where Ma is anxiously awaiting the arrival of some
magazine so she can find out whether hoops are in or out, so she knows how
wide to make the skirts for one of the girls? This may be when she's
preparing Mary's clothes before sending her off to the school for the
blind, or something else.

I haven't read the books in 30 years or so, so I'm probably getting it all
wrong. But I have this image in my head of frontier ladies seeking dribs
and drabs of fashion guidance in magazines so they can stay up to date
with what's happening Back East.

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 15:39:56 2002
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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:38:13 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

That's true, it is!  (aside to hubby: "Oh, honey, I know what I want for
Christmas..." )

Speaking of which, what are the list's favorite costume books for their
respective periods, and why?

It's hard to choose, but I've got to say that Norah Waugh's _Cut of
Women's Clothes_ and _Cut of Men's Clothes_ are my essential books for
17th and 18th c. costuming... I don't know what I'd do without them!

Cheers,
Mara


On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Drea Leed wrote:

> You are very, very bad!  :)  And here christmas is coming up...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drea

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 15:45:46 2002
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From: Kevin & Mara Riley 
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Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Fabric stash inventory idea]
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:46:57 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

Ok, the project that's been languishing the longest in my fabric stash is
(hi, Bjarne) an 18th c. man's banyan, in charcoal grey acetate that mimics
a watered silk.  Got the fabric in the drapery section of G Street Fabrics
a while ago.

The reason this banyan hasn't been made up yet is a) the customer would
_really_ like to find real grey watered silk, and b) we need to get some
red silk for the lining, and haven't gotten around to it yet.  I think I
just want to go ahead and sew the acetate up, and then redo it if we ever
DO find real silk for the exterior.

Just to make us even more frustrated at our inability to find grey watered
silk, the latest issue of _Threads_ has a 1950s vintage woman's jacket on
the back cover, in -- charcoal grey watered silk.  Damn, damn, damn!

-- Mara

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 17:19:02 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite books, was copies and rare books
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:15:16 -0500
Status: RO

I don't think that I could live without "Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe
Unlock'd". Also "Patterns of Fashion" is pretty much indispensable, while
"Dynasties', not a costume book exactly, has fantastic full color repros
of essential Elizabethan/Tudor portraits which are both inspirational and
informative.

Karen




On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Kevin & Mara Riley
 writes:
> Speaking of which, what are the list's favorite costume books for 
> their respective periods, and why?

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 17:39:25 2002
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From: "Angela Lazear-CRC" 
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References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:39:07 -0700
Status: RO

That seems to be the best take. It will give the most realistic look, and
simple dresses are the easiest to make. If I made them in "cheaper" looking
fabrics, distressed them a bit and added aprons.  Were aprons worn for
garment protection, or just affectation? I saw an apron in Fabric of
Society, and it was referred to as though it was for "Sunday best" rather
than say, to protect the dress from spillage or whatnot, as would be the
current use.

Were aprons often decorative? Meaning should I leave them out altogether (if
I decided to get correct) or should I just make sure they are coarse and
distressed, so they look working class.  I'm hoping when I get my book on
the working classes, I can find a reference to uniforms, if any there were,
in mills or factories of this period.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
Theatrical Costume Design
www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"What fates impose, that men must needs abide; It boots not to resist both
wind and tide."
W. Shakespeare
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin & Mara Riley" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond


> On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Cabbage Rose wrote:
> >  When you say conical corsets, what exactly do you mean?  Were they
late18th
> > C? That would make sense, since the scene is in 1815, I suppose they
could
> > just have old hand-me-down clothes on.  It's not critical, as I will be
> > redefining the look, but I am curious. I've seen the show twice, but
it's
> > been quite a while.
>
> One of the books I've got shows a prison with poor women in it, circa
> 1810, in England.  They're wearing Regency styles.
>
> Another book from early 19th c. England is by Pyne -- I forget his name,
> and the title of the book, sorry! -- and it shows higher waistlines than,
> say, American RevWar styles, on very poor people.
>
> So even poor women were trying to at least mirror the lines of current
> fashion.
>
> Cheers,
> Mara
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 19:15:38 2002
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From: "Linda J. Thompson" 
Subject: [h-cost] Fabric/Costume storage, was Fabric stash inventory idea
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:17:03 -0500
Status: RO

Storing clothing/fabric... What I have been taught is you do not want to store any fabric 
with it sitting directly on a wooden shelf, as your fabric can pick up pigment from the 
wood/shelac/varnish, and show slight yellowing/discoloration.  Always put down a layer or 
two of acid free paper or some other surface covering.  If you store it directly in a 
cardboard box, store it in a dry place.  The cardboard picks up moisture in a humid place 
and can and will transfer it to fabric at some point.  Even slight humidity can make your 
fabrics get that cardboard smell, and they can pick up pigment too.  So line the box with 
paper first.
If you are going to store anything for a significant amount of time in plastic then make 
sure it is not in a completely airtight container.  Fibers need the air, (not sure why, 
but I am sure about the need),  I store all of the items that need to be hung up in 
garment bags.  I cruise the thrift stores for them.  They allow air to circulate.
I store items like hosen and peasant stuff that doesn't need to be hung up in the plastic 
bins that have a little trap in the lid to put in scented cotton balls or to put moth 
balls in.. (I usually put a sprig or two of sage in the compartment for non woolens, and 
moth balls for wools)
For fabrics that would be harmed by a crease and sitting folded causes big creases.... I 
take a piece of muslin the width of the fabric to be stored... by about 8 inches deep... 
twist the muslin into a long rope and then starting at one end of the fabric I roll the 
fabric around the muslin like a tube.  Then wrap it with muslin to protect it from other 
stuff.  (does not work for velvet... crushes the pile)

Hope this helps.
-- 
Linda Thompson

Visit www.seams-to-be.com
where Attitude is Everything

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 19:54:15 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] tablet weaving?
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:55:52 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Mudding through my 
battle of Hastings costume and need ideas for trim. 
My son is eyeing some geometric trim I have on hand
that looks like darned thread work, not drawn thread,
darned thread.  It looks like someone pulled a thread
up through one hole and down several holes away to
form a geometric pattern.
                           -
                          ---
                         -- --
                        --   --
                         -- --
                          ---
                           -
  Rather like the diagram above if it makes any sense.
 Is this at all 11th century?  and what is tablet
weaving?  I did some card weaving in college and
wondered if this is the same or a similar type of
weaving of narrow bands.  Once again I'm researching
multi projects at once.  Ah well, the perils of being
creative and sometimes authentic.
                            
    Re my 1840s research,  accessing photos for the
early 1840s isn't coming easy, most of the photos the
museum has providence for are later.
                           Thanks everyone,
                             Cassandra (currently
swearing at the black lace for her daughter's
Halloween dress)

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite books, was copies and rare books
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:16:29 -0700
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>Speaking of which, what are the list's favorite costume books for their
>respective periods, and why?

Davenport's Book of Costume - still the best one-volume costume library.

Kayta

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In a message dated 9/30/02 4:57:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
rosenau5@yahoo.com writes:


> and what is tablet
> weaving?  I did some card weaving in college and
> wondered if this is the same or a similar type of
> weaving of narrow bands.

Yes, card weaving is another term for tablet weaving and there are many sites 
on the internet regarding this subject.  Ecclesiastical Pomp & Aristocratic 
Circumstance - A Thousand Years of Brocaded Tabletwoven Bands by Nacy Spies 
is an excellent reference for the subect.

Rgds,

Lisa

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In a message dated 9/30/02 4:57:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes:






and what is tablet

weaving?  I did some card weaving in college and

wondered if this is the same or a similar type of

weaving of narrow bands.




Yes, card weaving is another term for tablet weaving and there are many sites on the internet regarding this subject.  Ecclesiastical Pomp & Aristocratic Circumstance - A Thousand Years of Brocaded Tabletwoven Bands by Nacy Spies is an excellent reference for the subect.



Rgds,



Lisa

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Okay, we've been talking about the stuff we've held onto the longest,
but what about the fabric/trim/lace that we've been *looking for* the
longest?
My longest-running search would have to be for more light-weight,
even-weave handkerchief linen (the really light-weight stuff).  That,
and the right cut/voided velvet to do this one dress in Arnold's PoF
(1560-1620).  One of my more recent frustrations has been the
*overwhelming*  desire to find the right silk for a sack-backed
gown.  What the heck,...might as well be frustrated in multiple
centuries, right?
--sue
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You know, that brings up something I've been wondering about.  A few years
ago I reread all of the Little House on the Prairie books, and in one of the
later books Laura talks about hoops going out of fashion and then coming
back.  (There's some hilarious bits with her trying to manage a hoopskirt in
the winds walking into town).  Anyway, what era would this make it?
Obviously 1860's, but did hoops go out of fashion and then return?  Or is
she talking about the transition from late 1860's to early 1870's (bustle
hoops)?

- Kendra

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] travel lag


> A bit later, and not a good source for documentation, but just as a fun
> note for flavor: Isn't there a passage in one of the later books in the
> "Little House" series where Ma is anxiously awaiting the arrival of some
> magazine so she can find out whether hoops are in or out, so she knows how
> wide to make the skirts for one of the girls? This may be when she's
> preparing Mary's clothes before sending her off to the school for the
> blind, or something else.


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Clemenger" 
Subject: [h-cost] Fabric searches....


> Okay, we've been talking about the stuff we've held onto the longest,
> but what about the fabric/trim/lace that we've been *looking for* the
> longest?

That would be striped silk taffeta, which I have finally found at Thai Silks
(online) just as I am completely broke!

- Kendra


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Drea Leed wrote:
> 
> There are some examples of gowns with this amount of space between the
> front lacings in later 15th century art.  Not many, but some.

I could only find two, but I have in my head that there's another.  See
Israhel van Meckenem's _Feast of Herodias_ in Davenport fig. 995 or
Blanche Payne fig. 268.  There's also one that's strangely in the midst
of the early 16th-c. proto-Tudor look in a tapestry called _The Vices
Lead Men in a Life of Sin_ from the southern Netherlands.  It's fig. 134
the Met's _Medieval Tapestries_.  I don't know if it's the same sort of
thing, as it either has billowy sleeves of a different color, or it's
sleeveless (not short-sleeved) and the chemise is hanging out.  And
Robin, I'll say it for you:  these are mythical-historical and
allegorical, so beware!!  ;) 

The third one, unless my memory fails me, is on a serving girl in the
lower left-hand corner of a painting showing a banquet of the archer's
guild of something--does this sound familiar to anyone??  I could easily
be remembering her because of some other significant detail.

> Thanks to the poster of the pic, by the way!  I've been looking for a
> good, large, close-up of this particular picture for quite some time.

You're welcome.  Thanks actually go to Andra Keller, who made me free of
her and her husband's astonishing library and who pointed out all sorts
of fascinating tidbits about this time period, including this series of images.

Melanie Schuessler
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:44:51 -0600
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1870s, sometime, or maybe early 80s? I don't know nuttin much about 19th
c. clothing, but ISTR the Laura would have been born in the early 1860s?
She died in the 1950s, and was in her 90s, so this is just a rough
guesstimate.
The "fashion funny" that I remember from those books was her cutting
"bangs" ("fringe" in the book, wasn't it?) and then curling them with a
curling iron heated over one of their lamps. It came off as quite the
daring thing to do in those parts! ;-)
--sue

Kendra Van Cleave wrote:
> 
> You know, that brings up something I've been wondering about.  A few years
> ago I reread all of the Little House on the Prairie books, and in one of the
> later books Laura talks about hoops going out of fashion and then coming
> back.  (There's some hilarious bits with her trying to manage a hoopskirt in
> the winds walking into town).  Anyway, what era would this make it?
> Obviously 1860's, but did hoops go out of fashion and then return?  Or is
> she talking about the transition from late 1860's to early 1870's (bustle
> hoops)?
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric searches....
To: h-costume@indra.com
In-Reply-To:  from "Kendra Van Cleave" at Sep 30, 2002 06:20:23 PM
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:40:11 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

I just found that -last- night

and I'm VERY tempted to go buy a bunch, even though I am broke --
but for an 1880's, of course!

(kendra, you've infected me with STRIPES)

.heather.

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sue Clemenger" 
> Subject: [h-cost] Fabric searches....
> 
> 
> > Okay, we've been talking about the stuff we've held onto the longest,
> > but what about the fabric/trim/lace that we've been *looking for* the
> > longest?
> 
> That would be striped silk taffeta, which I have finally found at Thai Silks
> (online) just as I am completely broke!
> 
> - Kendra
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 21:43:38 2002
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From: "Carolann Schmitt" 
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 21:44:44 -0400
Status: RO

It is must be the season for banyans!  I'm working on a 19th century version
for my husband that will be entered in a costume competition in 2004.  A
friend loaned me an original one to study, and it is the gaudiest thing
imaginable!

The fabric is silk and wool twill, printed in a paisley pattern in shades of
red, burnt orange, gold and two shades of green on a warm dark brown
background.  The lining is a printed cotton stripe in shades of mauve, two
shades of green (not the same two shades as on the outer fabric!) and black.
The lining is machine quilted to a thin wool interlining with shocking pink
thread.  The lapels, cuffs and pocket flaps are another (fifth) shade of
green and are also machine quilted in shocking pink!

And for Bjarne:  When I was in Williamsburg, VA in December 2000, Mark
Hutter was just finishing a gorgeous 18th century banyan done in flame
orange iridiscent silk taffeta with gold silk taffeta facings - a stitch by
stitch reproduction of one in the Colonial Williamsburg collection.  It was
just spectacular!

Carolann Schmitt
cschmitt@genteelarts.com
www.genteelarts.com
Ladies of the 1860s Conference, March 7-9, 2003


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 22:12:27 2002
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From: "Carolann Schmitt" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] travel lag
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A friend of mine has been researching this topic while preparing a
presentation for a future conference.  While most of her research is
mid-nineteenth century, it appears that the time lag from the time a style
appeared in a French fashion magazine until it appeared in an American
magazine is as swift as eight weeks and as long as six months - depending on
the publisher of the magazine.  The average span is about 3 months.  Once
the information reached the US, the designs were frequently altered for
"American tastes", much to the bemusement of the French.  There does not
seem to be any indication that the American publishers waited until the next
season to publish the style; many of the designs are seasonless and the
publisher just suggests more seasonable fabrics and trims.

The time lag from publisher to reader is also not as long as you might
think.  It really depends on the railroads, steamships, etc.  If a woman
lived close to a town with regular train service, she could have the
magazine within a week or two.  If she lived in a more remote area of the
country it could take a month or two.  In a diary written in 1860, a woman
who lived outside of Vicksburg, MS received her issue of Godey's within a
week of its publication.  Yet it took almost a month for an issue to reach a
woman who lived on the frontier in western New York (just 50 miles west of
Rochester).  Studying the transportation available in the area during the
1840s would probably give you a pretty good indication on how long it took
for the magazines to arrive.

I also have a diary reference for a woman who emigrated to the Texas
frontier. In a letter home she begs for news of the latest fashions; in the
previous paragraph she mentions the family has just $2.50 to live on until
they can sell their crops in two months time. Fashion was important to many
women, no matter what their personal circumstances.

Carolann Schmitt
cschmitt@genteelarts.com
www.genteelarts.com
Ladies of the 1860s Conference, March 7-9, 2003



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Sep 30 23:59:18 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of fabric stashes
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:01:35 -0500
Status: RO

I've ordered from them twice. Very satisfied both times.
They've got the best price I've found on Venice lace.

Sheryl Nance-Durst

At 02:55 PM 9/30/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Have you tried
>
>http://www.trimfabric.com/
>
>I bought some fabric from them last year -- did have a problem with my
>order, but they made it right very quickly.
>
>Has anyone else ordered from them?  If so, what is their track record?
>
>-- Mara
>
>On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Robin Netherton wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm looking for a dress length of medium blue worsted wool -- about a
> > Wedgewood blue, or a medium blue-jeans shade.
>(snip)
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct  1 00:14:29 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Pin-on sleeves and more
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:19:14 -0500 (CDT)
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You folks are a really bad influence. I promised myself I'd get some work
done tonight, but you keep posting on this thread, and I can't stay away!
;-)

First: Melanie posted a couple of images from King Rene, and added:

> Thanks actually go to Andra Keller, who made me free of her and her
> husband's astonishing library and who pointed out all sorts of
> fascinating tidbits about this time period, including this series of
> images.

As an extra footnote here, I believe it was me who led Andra (and a bunch
of other people) to these particular images, when I spoke about them in my
lecture on the V-necked gown style at the SCA's KWCS in 2000. But I posted
about them to this list before that, in a summary of that lecture -- or,
rather, of the version I gave at the Medieval Congress (Kalamazoo) in
1999. (I can repost that summary if there's interest.) I mention this
partly because I someday do hope to publish a version of this talk, so
I've asked that people who do use what I taught there to cite me ...  but
that's probably a vain hope.

Be that as it may, finding that plastron on that night scene was one of
the biggest "aha" moments of my research. I had my copy of Rene since 1979
or so, and it took me more than 15 years of flipping past that page before
I noticed that little detail. It's not visible in some reproductions, but
it's clear enough in Melanie's scan.

While I've nattered on at some length about the plastron and the
short-sleeved undergown, what I haven't addressed in any detail is that
confusing little issue that Gail brings up:

> I think Robin is right about the pin-on sleeves. But what exactly is
> going on in that second drawing from King Rene's Book of Love? Is the
> woman going to lace her dress so that it closes, or is it laced
> correctly already? If so, I can see that the dress would be very
> practical to wear under something else -- adjustable day by day, etc.
> But I can't imagine anyone wearing it that way alone, with the chemise
> sticking out like that -- which would negate the need for any pin-on
> sleeves! The gown looks like it couldn't be laced any tighter than it
> is, but maybe it was just drawn that way. Does anyone know?

OK, the easy part first. To the best of my knowledge, Gail is right that
these women wouldn't normally be seen in public wearing dresses laced with
such a large gap, showing their chemise. In this case, the ship has
undergone rough passage, and my reading is that the women (who are
actually the ship's "crew" in this allegorical tale) are shown in their
underdresses to indicate the hardship they have undergone. Thus, no pin-on
sleeves with this sort of arrangement -- it wasn't planned as normal wear.

As a parallel, I've seen some of the Flemish painters (including Van der
Weyden and Bouts) use a loose lacing or half-unlacing to indicate that a
woman is in some sort of distress (literally dis-dress, in this case): the
Magdalen driven to distraction with grief at the Crucifixion, a mother
fighting off the soldiers during the Slaughter of the Innocents. So the
artist's choice to show Confidante and Accord in half-dressed state may be
visual code for distress.

But then there's the next question: Would the dress normally have been
laced tighter, or was it meant to have that gap (and, normally, be covered
by the overdress)? I think there are several different types of examples
we can bring to bear on this.

One is Drea's:

> There are some examples of gowns with this amount of space between the
> front lacings in later 15th century art.  Not many, but some. ...
> There are a few pics of gowns like this, sans pinned placket and with
> less space between the lacings, worn by women working in fields and
> doing other menial labor.

The examples of women laboring do give evidence of some cases in which
women would lace with a gap. But I think we're seeing a different case in
the Rene image, because of (1) the degree of the gap, (2) the class of the
women, and (3) the fact that this gap was probably not meant to be in
public view, but covered with an overgown. So we have to keep looking for
other parallel images.

Melanie provided some. I don't have the tapestry she referred to, but this
one is easy to find (thanks for the good cites):

> I could only find two, but I have in my head that there's another.  
> See Israhel van Meckenem's _Feast of Herodias_ in Davenport fig. 995
> or Blanche Payne fig. 268.

This is a German picture, but the fashions look pretty close to Flemish
(with some odd details, as to be expected when you get into Germany). I'm
not sure what's going on with the wide-laced lady in the front, who looks
as though she's fighting off her escort. But that is clearly an overgown
with that wide lacing, and that's not a chemise showing underneath. So
we're looking at the wide lacing used on an overgown style here, with a
full underdress or at least a long placket underneath to cover the gap.

Melanie adds:

> And Robin, I'll say it for you:  these are mythical-historical and
> allegorical, so beware!!  ;)

Thanks to Melanie for saving wear and tear on my typing fingers, because
she's right, I would have said it if she hadn't ;-) But read on for more
on that angle.

Looking closer at that image from Payne, we can see the figure of Salome,
in the back right of the image, serving up John the Baptist's head on a
platter. Salome is also wearing an overgown with that wide lacing gap.  
Another example -- but this one realistic -- is Memling's 1475 "Donne
Triptych," which includes a donor portrait of Donne's daughter Anne with a
similar overdress. This one is figure 262 in Payne; you can also find it
at .

What those two have in common is that both of the women are really girls.
Salome is traditionally painted in a way to emphasize her youth, and Anne
Donne looks to be pre-teen -- she's just beginning to develop a figure. I
am certain that I've seen other young girls in this style, as I've made
enough notes about it to call it the "girl's version" in my shorthand.

Of course, the style isn't limited to girls, but it's pretty scarce on
older women compared to other fashion options. In addition to the woman in
the foreground of the German image, have a look at the St. Wilgefortis
panel of Memling's 1480 Triptych of Adriaan Reins
 and also
the Magdalen in the central panel of the same painting
. You also
see it on one of the background saints in the Virgin Surrounded by Female
Saints by the Master of the St. Lucy Legend
, 1488. Give me
another hour and I could find a few more, but I'd rather not if y'all
don't mind ;-)

But note that the latter images are saints, and at least one is a virgin
saint (and therefore intended to be youthful). The fact that this image
often appears on girls and youthful women, more so than other women, may
reflect a practical matter of the style: When it's laced so wide, you have
less support of the bust. That would make it a really good style for
growing girls (adjustable where they're blossoming) but not good for women
with any sizable endowment.

All of these dresses pretty clearly were not meant to lace shut -- it's
apparent that the wide opening is intentional. And all of these images
show the opening laced over either another dress or a panel or both, with
no visible chemise. But some of them may have been suitable as
underdresses, such as the Magdalen's. (Magdalen is frequently depicted in
this period in her underdress only.) So that does leave open the
possibility that some women used these wide-gapped dresses as
underdresses, and (if they were ever to wear them without an overdress in
public) added a deep panel below the lacing for modesty.

So, if we apply this logic to the women in Rene, we might hypothesize a
gap-laced underdress that would be worn with a plastron over the upper
bust when used under a V-necked gown, but could conceivably worn with a
panel beneath (by itself) and pin-on sleeves.

Which brings us to the painting Melanie remembers:

> The third one, unless my memory fails me, is on a serving girl in the
> lower left-hand corner of a painting showing a banquet of the archer's
> guild of something--does this sound familiar to anyone??  I could
> easily be remembering her because of some other significant detail.

Yes, that's the Archer's Festival by the Master van Frankfort, about 1493,
in the Antwerp Musee des Beaux-arts. I took some good slides of this,
including a close-up of this young woman, but I can't find it in any books
offhand, not even my catalog from the museum.  She appears to be
middle-class or working-class and is wearing an apron. There's a placket
behind her wide lacing. And the dress is short-sleeved with -- ta-da! --
pin-on sleeves.

OK, now I have to add all this into the lecture...

--Robin

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] travel lag
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:21:34 -0500 (CDT)
Status: RO


On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote:

> 1870s, sometime, or maybe early 80s? I don't know nuttin much about 19th
> c. clothing, but ISTR the Laura would have been born in the early 1860s?
> She died in the 1950s, and was in her 90s, so this is just a rough
> guesstimate.

The "long winter" was in the 1880s, if memory serves me. Maybe 1881? Why
do I remember these things? 

> The "fashion funny" that I remember from those books was her cutting
> "bangs" ("fringe" in the book, wasn't it?) and then curling them with a
> curling iron heated over one of their lamps. It came off as quite the
> daring thing to do in those parts! ;-)

Her father called it the "lunatic fringe." And her mother grumbled that in
her day, girls didn't dare show their *ears*.

--Robin

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From: Sue Clemenger 
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:35:08 -0600
Status: RO

It's part of your PUFF file, of course! 
(that's Perfectly Useless Facts and Figures)
The oddest bits come crawling out at the oddest times....knowing that
Bath, England (before I ever saw it) was all made of the same kind of
stone, for instance, or noticing that the plants between the visitors'
center and Newgrange-proper were the plants associated with the Ogham
alphabet.  Or (oooh....costume-related bit) noticing a misdated painting
in the National Gallery in Dublin--and *knowing* they were off by a
century because of the lace!
Or knowing that the geological equivalent or some such (northern
hemisphere) of Lake Victoria (which is southern hemisphere) is Lake
Baikal, in Siberia.  How I knew that one in a Trivial Pursuit game, I'll
never, never understand.....
--sue

Robin Netherton wrote:
> 
> The "long winter" was in the 1880s, if memory serves me. Maybe 1881? Why
> do I remember these things?
> 
> > The "fashion funny" that I remember from those books was her cutting
> > "bangs" ("fringe" in the book, wasn't it?) and then curling them with a
> > curling iron heated over one of their lamps. It came off as quite the
> > daring thing to do in those parts! ;-)
> 
> Her father called it the "lunatic fringe." And her mother grumbled that in
> her day, girls didn't dare show their *ears*.
> 
> --Robin
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct  1 01:06:16 2002
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From: "Wanda Pease" 
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] Favorite books, was copies and rare books
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:07:36 -0700
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Gothic Europe and Italian Renaissance Costuming are the two books I go to
most often besides the Janet Arnold and Spanish Tailor's Manuel (Alcega)

Regina Romsey
I had my car's alignment checked. It's chaotic evil.


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 5:16 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Favorite books, was copies and rare books



>Speaking of which, what are the list's favorite costume books for their
>respective periods, and why?

Davenport's Book of Costume - still the best one-volume costume library.

Kayta

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct  1 01:41:13 2002
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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:42:50 -0700
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Interesting!  So when she talks about hoopskirts (now I can't remember what
term she uses for them, but I definitely remember thinking she was talking
about a hoop crinoline) going out and coming back, she's talking about the
transition from 1870's bustle to natural form to early 1880's bustles.

- Kendra

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] travel lag


>
> On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote:
>
> > 1870s, sometime, or maybe early 80s? I don't know nuttin much about 19th
> > c. clothing, but ISTR the Laura would have been born in the early 1860s?
> > She died in the 1950s, and was in her 90s, so this is just a rough
> > guesstimate.
>
> The "long winter" was in the 1880s, if memory serves me. Maybe 1881? Why
> do I remember these things?
>
> > The "fashion funny" that I remember from those books was her cutting
> > "bangs" ("fringe" in the book, wasn't it?) and then curling them with a
> > curling iron heated over one of their lamps. It came off as quite the
> > daring thing to do in those parts! ;-)
>
> Her father called it the "lunatic fringe." And her mother grumbled that in
> her day, girls didn't dare show their *ears*.
>
> --Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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