From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 07:23:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26751 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:23:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91BP35N020452; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91BP2ih015712; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91BOrih015614 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A69683B900DC; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 06:27:18 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7152D62026C; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 06:29:25 -0500 Message-ID: <02cb01c2693c$2d2a5b20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:17:49 -0400 Status: RO YIPPEEE!!!!!!!! The 5th Online Costume Ball is open!!!!!!! www.onlinecostumeball.com To get to this year's Ball click on 2002 from the bottom menu. (I haven't added the link to the large image yet) The first 15 guests are up on the Ball. I will add some more guests this evening. Please make sure to read some of the costume notes or links to websites with more information/construction notes about some of the costumes. The first guest was awarded this position for being so creative... it is h-costume's Kate Pinner's daughter bubble-wrap prom dress. Make sure to read the construction notes that Kate provided. This is the only guest that I have ever revealed their identity... but mother and daughter deserve some recognition. APPLAUSE!!! There are a couple of other noteworthy things to not miss... There is a secret about Queen Elizabeth (figure out that mystery) and the Star Wars R2D2 is functional and is home-made. Gosh, I want an operational R2D2. I hope you all have fun with this year's Ball!!!!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 08:59:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27054 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:59:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91D035N025900; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91D01ih009371; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91CxMih009162 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:59:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021001125922.28393.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:59:22 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <02cb01c2693c$2d2a5b20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:59:22 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Uhm, Penny, I can't find it? There is no link to the 2002 one? Nicole --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > YIPPEEE!!!!!!!! The 5th Online Costume Ball is open!!!!!!! > www.onlinecostumeball.com To get to this year's Ball click on 2002 from the > bottom menu. (I haven't added the link to the large image yet) The first 15 > guests are up on the Ball. I will add some more guests this evening. > Please make sure to read some of the costume notes or links to websites with > more information/construction notes about some of the costumes. > > The first guest was awarded this position for being so creative... it is > h-costume's Kate Pinner's daughter bubble-wrap prom dress. Make sure to > read the construction notes that Kate provided. This is the only guest that > I have ever revealed their identity... but mother and daughter deserve some > recognition. APPLAUSE!!! > > There are a couple of other noteworthy things to not miss... There is a > secret about Queen Elizabeth (figure out that mystery) and the Star Wars > R2D2 is functional and is home-made. Gosh, I want an operational R2D2. > > I hope you all have fun with this year's Ball!!!!!!! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 09:03:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27076 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:03:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91D415N026116; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91D40ih010468; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91D3Hih010263 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:03:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021001130316.54455.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:03:16 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <02cb01c2693c$2d2a5b20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:03:16 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Oooops!! Sorry, he link was on the bottom, I tried finding it in the clickable map. *SAG* Nicole --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > YIPPEEE!!!!!!!! The 5th ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 09:08:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27091 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:08:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91DA25N026348; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91DA1ih012155; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91D9Tih012015 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:09:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AF1A235700AA; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:11:54 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF9938AA0290; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:14:01 -0500 Message-ID: <033e01c2694b$94e69bc0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20021001130316.54455.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:08:05 -0400 Status: RO I haven't had time to make the one for the clickable map yet. Make your confusion Nicole..... which one is not you on the Ball! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 > Oooops!! Sorry, he link was on the bottom, I tried finding it in the clickable > map. *SAG* > > Nicole > > --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > YIPPEEE!!!!!!!! The 5th > > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 09:34:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27241 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:34:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Da35N027804; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Da1ih020033; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12007.mail.yahoo.com (web12007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.215]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91DZ5ih019768 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021001133505.42106.qmail@web12007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.231] by web12007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 06:35:05 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] travel lag Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Thanks for the long post on travel lag and I'll explain what I'm up to also. The museum where I volunteer has an educational kit they loan out to schools on the history of the county they're in. This requires complete male and female outfits from the 1840s when the first settlers arrive in the county. We didn't get a railroad anywhere near here until the 1850s. The oldest photos the museum has provedence for are from the 1850s (I do have Dressed for the Photographer and love it, also Who Wore What as it goes into the age lag). Many of the towns in the county weren't incorporated until the 1860-1870s, although you can get some idea of the population through checking the church histories as there were churches wherever there were people around here and the chuches are usually older than the towns. I know from my reading of diaries and other contemporary writings that women tried to stay up to date with the latest fashions but our county seems to have pretty rough and out-of-touch until the railroad came through. The other two activities I need clothing for are a work and play kit,work dress and fancy dress, both male and female, and items to go with the displays. All the clothing needs to be sized with extra large armscyes because the children are supposed to be able to dress up in the items. Usually just putting out adult clothing works but the small armscye of this timeframe and further along into the century keeps getting ripped out so I need to figure out adjustments for our seamstresses. Are there any really good books or sites dealing with the 1840s out there? Pattern recommendations? I can alter but I can't draft and the museum doesn't have any original clothing that old. Our curator also wants corsets and undergarments for the loan out kits so the kids can see how much clothing women actually used to wear to be appropriately dressed. I have someone willing to do the embroidery but I need patterns for that era's embroidery too. Cassandra (who onoce promised herself to never have more than 3 quilts and 3 garments in process at any one time. This list is dangerous as I love following everyone else's projects too.) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 09:35:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27249 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:35:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Db35N027850; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Db1ih020356; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91DaHih020121 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:36:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17674 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:40:25 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 In-Reply-To: <02cb01c2693c$2d2a5b20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:40:24 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: > The first guest was awarded this position for being so creative... it > is h-costume's Kate Pinner's daughter bubble-wrap prom dress. Make > sure to read the construction notes that Kate provided. This is the > only guest that I have ever revealed their identity... but mother and > daughter deserve some recognition. APPLAUSE!!! Golly, but that's a pretty dress! I couldn't have imagined how well that would turn out. > There are a couple of other noteworthy things to not miss... There is > a secret about Queen Elizabeth (figure out that mystery)... I'm guessing she is a he? Now I want to know who everyone is. Don't be shy, folks. Tell us which are yours. Who is the geisha? Penny: This took a long time to load ... could it be the animation in the back that slows it down so much? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 09:36:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27255 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:36:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Dc25N027914; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Dc1ih020672; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91DbJih020450 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15206 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2002 13:37:18 -0000 Received: from dap-208-1-140-125.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.1.140.125) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2002 13:37:18 -0000 Message-ID: <003601c2694e$ad96c520$7d8c01d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of fabric stashes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:30:05 -0400 Status: RO > Have you tried > > http://www.trimfabric.com/ > Thank you (I think) for posting this link. They do have some nice wools at good prices. Of course, I didn't need any wool particularly, and now I have 17 yards coming..... Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 10:16:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27438 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:16:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91EI85N000272; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91EI1ih004437; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91EHEih004153 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3B00DP53OKUG@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 10:17:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3D99AE9E.4050901@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Online Ball access problem Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 09:18:06 -0500 Status: RO Hi Penny, It is impossible to access your 2002 costume ball with Netscape 6.2.... I am not sure about other Mozilla based programs. I did access it fine with Internet Explorer... but since I do not use it because of how easy it is to pick up unwanted germs through it, I only attempt it when forced to... :D Maybe it has something to do with the Java script "cookie" thing? In Netscape I disabled all cookies and it did not ask me for one when I entered the costume ball area, but then again it also did not allow me to access 2002 on the bottom menu either.. you click on it and nothing happens. Just thought I would pass this on. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 10:20:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27455 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91EM15N000564; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91EM0ih006054; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91ELeih005887 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021001142139.53407.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:21:39 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <033e01c2694b$94e69bc0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:21:39 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > I haven't had time to make the one for the clickable map yet. Make your > confusion Nicole..... which one is not you on the Ball! Yes I know.. but as you know I am busier than hell, I've GOT to get this PhD application out or I can forget about the funding from staff development. I sent the piccie off though today! At last, hehe. I loved the star wars entry, this chap really looks like thingami! (names.. names.... but you know, the long haired one). Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 10:46:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27586 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:46:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Em35N002414; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Em2ih017356; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from listserv.okstate.edu (listserv.okstate.edu [139.78.100.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91EjGih016119 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from osu-ns09.cis.okstate.edu by listserv.okstate.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.11F5AE0A@listserv.okstate.edu>; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 9:45:15 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Ball access problem X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 From: "Christina L Biles" Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on osu-ns09/Okstate(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 10/01/2002 09:45:15, Serialize complete at 10/01/2002 09:45:15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:47:13 -0500 Status: RO It works fine in Opera and Netscape 7. (Even better, the stars don't flash in 7.) -Magdalena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 10:47:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27592 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:47:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91En15N002469; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91En0ih017754; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Emaih017586 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m108.in-tch.com [216.166.191.108]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g91EXdH09980 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D99B71D.89FDED57@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of fabric stashes References: <003601c2694e$ad96c520$7d8c01d0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:54:21 -0600 Status: RO Oooooh, dawgie! It's a darned good thing I don't have my credit card handy, or I'd be much poorer in dollars, and much richer in wool stash! --Sue, reminding herself, once again, that she's on a *BUDGET*, dang it! (also wondering where in the heck the "ooh, dawgie" came from....;-P) Janet Davis wrote: > > > Have you tried > > > > http://www.trimfabric.com/ > > > Thank you (I think) for posting this link. They do have some nice wools at > good prices. Of course, I didn't need any wool particularly, and now I have > 17 yards coming..... > > Janet > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 11:15:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27746 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:15:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FF35N004529; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FF146029747; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FEB46029270 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f8d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.141]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 13B0C48073C for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:14:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001b01c2695d$3b742e60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <002b01c268ec$1ec34740$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:14:25 +0200 Status: RO Hi Carolann Thanks for your input with the banyan. So if i have understanded this right, it is a sort of winter wear like we use a coat. Something i can use to take over my gentlemans suit. It would be very nice trimmed with some kind of fur i think, and then made up in silk taffeta lined with another quilted taffeta, wich i do myself. Then i could be ready for the autumn next year. Thanks for your informations Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 11:20:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27761 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:20:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FM45N005113; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FM046003374; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FKX46002630 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f8d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.141]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A25D7480D81 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:20:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002701c2695e$1facb610$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Yippeeeeeeeee Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:20:49 +0200 Status: RO Hi there. Today was very expensive for my purse. Baught a weather station for Leif (birthsday pressent) and A DIGITAL CAMERA FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AAAAAAAAAArgh. But i hate when i have to read a lot of stuff before i can do anything with it. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 11:23:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27767 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:23:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FMX5N005153; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FMW46003686; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:22:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FLq46003294 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:21:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f8d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.141]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 054724808BD for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:21:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002d01c2695e$4f05d5e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:22:09 +0200 Status: RO Dear Mara. Yes, you are right, it is called a banyan. Thanks for correkting me Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin & Mara Riley" To: Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyard > Could this be a 'Banyan', Bjarne? They're a sort of 18th c. man's > dressing gown. > > Cheers, > Mara > > > On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > Hello. > > Dont know if i spelled this name correct. It is a mans overgarment 18th. > > century. Banyard > > I heard there should be a cutting diagram in an old issue of "Costume" (the > > costume society, England) > > Does anybody have this? Would you please tell me wich number it is so that i > > could look for it at the library? > > I was looking at a portrait of James Boswell. He is wearing such a garment > > trimmed with fur. > > I surely would like to make such an attire for my embroidered suit, if i go > > to Stockholm in the autumn, it would be lovely warm. > > Thanks > > Bjarne > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 11:41:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27921 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:41:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Fe35N006501; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Fe046012691; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91Fda46012425 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:39:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCtCVmZ0yQ0CqL/L4bLVnHhJfzjVpp9NbqQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id HD2YTF4V; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:38:52 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans Message-ID: <20021001.103517.-243694153.6.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,10-13,19-23 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:35:17 -0500 Status: RO I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that a banyan was a sort of dressing gown or casual 'at home' wear. I understood that a matching turban/fez sort of cap was worn because the formal wig was not worn with the banyan. In "The Guide to Historic Costume" by Karen Baclawski the entry for 'banyan' cross references 'nightgown' and a pertinent part of the 'nightgown' entry reads: During the eighteenth century, nightgowns were referred to as 'banyans' and it is difficult to make hard and fast distinctions between the two terms. The word 'banyan' comes from India. Some banyans were made of Indian cottons, others of Scotch plaids. Another part of the entry reads: In the mid-seventeenth century, nightgowns were usually t-shaped or kimono-like garments, with wide sleeves, made from woolen cloth or imported silks. At this time, these informal garments became fashionable; they were considered exotic and were often called 'Indian gowns'. They were worn with a 'nightcap' in place of a more formal doublet or coat by a man relaxing at home or receiving visitors. Hope this helps to clarify your design ideas! Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 11:47:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28028 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:47:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Fm95N007221; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:48:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Fm346017067; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FlJ46016654 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.b9.279ec5b2 (4340) for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:47:02 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:47:02 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 9/30/02 9:45:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschmitt@genteelarts.com writes: << and it is the gaudiest thing imaginable! >> I know! Isn't it wild, these 18 & 19th century things? But if you think about it, they don't have the range of dyes and the flexibility of color we have today [although' they do have a huge range of colors] so things can't be as "matchy-matchy" as we do things today. You can see this also in interior design. There's also in the 1870s or so a theory of color involving contrast rather than harmony. Me? I love dangerous color combinations. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 11:54:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28053 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:54:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91FsF5N007692; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Fs746020262; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:54:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Frn46020051 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.70.23db04d6 (4340) for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:53:35 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <70.23db04d6.2acb1eff@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyard To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:53:35 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 10/1/02 11:23:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: << Could this be a 'Banyan', Bjarne? They're a sort of 18th c. man's > dressing gown. >> I just wanted to point out that a Banyan is "Undress" as opposed to "Dress". This doesn't mean you only wear it in the privacy of your room. but at home.....to be seen by visitors, not necessarily hidden away. It's just depicted in portraits and other illustrations too much. It's not a bath robe, really. But you'd never wear it out. Derived from Indian clothing....which sorta accounts for the bright colors. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 12:13:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28132 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:13:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91GCA5N009079; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91GC146000270; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91GAr46029469 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g91GCiB16114.; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:12:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:10:49 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g91GAr46029469 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:10:37 +0100 Status: RO AlbertCat wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> There's also in the 1870s or so a theory of color involving contrast >rather than harmony. >Me? I love dangerous color combinations I love contrasting colours too, especially deep violet/blue with cream or lemon yellow. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 12:18:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28173 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:18:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91GJ45N009653; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91GJ146004394; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91GIT46004035 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.135.211]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20021001161823.TOSS18399.out012.verizon.net@default> for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:18:23 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20021001161557.006faaa4@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:15:57 -0400 Status: RO At 05:14 PM 10/1/02 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Carolann > >Thanks for your input with the banyan. So if i have understanded this right, >it is a sort of winter wear like we use a coat. >Something i can use to take over my gentlemans suit. >It would be very nice trimmed with some kind of fur i think, and then made >up in silk taffeta lined with another quilted taffeta, wich i do myself. >Then i could be ready for the autumn next year. >Thanks for your informations > >Bjarne > > A banyan is NOT a winter coat, and most are to light weight for this sort of use. A banyan is usually a robe like garment (though the one mentioned earlier that Mr. Hutter made is quite like a coat). Banyan's are used in very informal occasions in place of the caot itself (over the small clothes). examples would be around the house, or outside if one is not intending to conduct business. Banyans are frequently worn with negligee caps, and are often seen in portraits, particularly those of scholarly types. Many look almost middle eastern (...but it's turkish!). Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 14:01:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28892 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:01:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91I2F5N020027; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:02:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91I20Bt002164; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91I12Bt001765 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AngelaFLazear (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g91I0Eee570184 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:01:01 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c26974$63503980$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Angela Lazear-CRC" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:00:11 -0700 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin & Mara Riley" To: Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency & beyond > Past Patterns has an (American) mill worker's dress for the 1830s, too, > as well as a dressier 1830s gown: > > http://www.pastpatterns.com/1830.html > > -- Mara Thanks Mara. You are always jumping in to help, theatrically speaking, and I so appreciate it. Kendra too. It would appear that ladies dressed pretty well to work in factories and such. Not at all the equivalent of jeans and a tee shirt we might see today. The factory scenes are in 1813, so the shape would be different but the level of dress would be the same. I think I'll get my copy of the book and see what kind of factory it is supposed to be. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "O! Swear not by the moon, the inconstant moon, That monthly changes in her circled orb, Lest that thy love prove likewise variable." W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 15:19:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29812 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:19:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91JL33Y027144; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91JL0Bt013717; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91JKNBt013340 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:20:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 40720 invoked by uid 0); 1 Oct 2002 19:20:22 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2002 19:20:22 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000801c26974$63503980$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> Message-ID: <20021001151904.Y96584-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeth Vernon Pic? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:20:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dear List, I recall that someone, a while back, posted a really great color close-up of Elizabeth Vernon (the countess of Southhampton) in her pink stays, during a discussion about jacobean jackets. Does anyone recall the URL that the pic was put up at? Thanks, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 15:36:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30146 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:36:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Jc33Y028818; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Jc1Bt022451; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91JbGBt022077 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beed.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.237]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E5AE482A4E for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:37:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001301c26982$023f8f20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Banyan Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:37:41 +0200 Status: RO Hello all you very helpfull people out there. Thank You all so much for correkting me here. (Blushing all over) I have really made a fool of myself have i not!!! I was compleatly tricked because i thoaght when a garment was fur trimmed it would be for outdoor wear. But of cause you are right. It was very cold inside two, and i was tricked, didnt think so much about that (used to central heating :-)) Another picture tricked me, from Dress in Eighteenth Century Europe. There is a picture on page 126 and i thoaght they were banyan's but they are Greatcoats. Well such a Greatcoat, could that not have ben cut similar way? It looks as if it is t-shaped. But i dont know. Dont know much about mens wear besides from Jacket, waistcoat, Shirt and Bretches, but i am still learning. But there is a cut of a Greatcoat in "Cut of Men's Clothes" Surely i could trim a Greatcoat with Fur two? It is because i really would like to try to make something with Fur. Still blushing.............. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 16:00:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30539 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:00:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91K223Y001103; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91K20Bt005132; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12008.mail.yahoo.com (web12008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.216]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91K1FBt004704 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:01:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021001200111.3342.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.252] by web12008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:01:11 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] help Penny Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Penny, I was happily scrolling through the on-line ball pics when I got to group 4 and kept getting the 404 error. Are these not there then? I tried using the next arrow and when that didn't work I skipped to the other groups and got the same error. I haven't seen Teddy yet :( Cassandra (who hates being awake in what is the middle of my night, graveyard shift worker ;) ) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 16:13:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30729 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:13:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KF43Y002273; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KF2Bt011579; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KEdBt011368 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:14:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A2BBBB00004C; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:16:59 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A30DBA0252; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:18:21 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c26987$3a5d7520$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20021001200111.3342.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] help Penny X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:15:02 -0400 Status: RO What may have happened is that the site was busy and got bogged down. I will check with my host. They are supposed to be putting my sites on other servers to handle the Halloween high visitation. What speed of modem are you using? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cascio Michael" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] help Penny > Penny, > I was happily scrolling through the on-line ball > pics when I got to group 4 and kept getting the 404 > error. Are these not there then? I tried using the > next arrow and when that didn't work I skipped to the > other groups and got the same error. I haven't seen > Teddy yet :( > Cassandra (who hates being awake > in what is the middle of my night, graveyard shift > worker ;) ) > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 16:31:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30971 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:31:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KX33Y004061; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KX1Bt021344; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmsoutbound.mx.net (cmsrelay04.mx.net [165.212.11.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91KWwBt021308 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200210012032.g91KWwBt021308@net.indra.com> Received: from uadvg133.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.133) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2002 20:32:53 -0000 Received: from gw.smtp.postoffice.net [165.212.8.8] by uadvg133.cms.usa.net via mtad (CM.0402.2.02C) with ESMTP id 786gJauhB0561M33; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 20:33:02 GMT Received: from 206.163.135.19 [206.163.135.19] by uwdvg008.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.0402.4.07); Tue, 01 Oct 2002 20:32:52 -0000 From: Shea Young To: X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.4.07) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g91KWwBt021308 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Textiles in America, was copies and rare books] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:32:52 -0700 Status: RO Oh yes! Five years ago,a woman friend was trying to convince me that she had the "perfect" man for me to meet. Her most convincing statement was that he owned Textiles in America and had a fabric stash almost as big as mine! We decided to marry after our third meeting and it would probably be a good idea if we added another room to the house, or rented a warehouse for the combined stash! Shea Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > It IS yummy -- the book is about an inch and a half thick and jam-packed > with color plates of 18th c. textiles of all kinds, from upholstery to > clothing to trim, along with definitions of various fabric types, and > information about their history and usage. I believe it was originally > published by Wintherthur... it's more or less THE bible of 18th c. > fabric. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 16:40:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31104 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:40:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Kg23Y004938; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Kg0Bt026480; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KfdBt026297 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A911874500E8; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:44:01 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A9642201FA; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:45:24 -0500 Message-ID: <005101c2698b$01841840$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <3D99AE9E.4050901@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Ball access problem X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:42:06 -0400 Status: RO Linda, Thank you for checking and letting me know about the problems and in which browser. My tech guys are checking into the problem in Netscape browsers. I'll let you know when they get it fixed. With the Ball the front page is set in images maps and they followed coordinates, so the webpage needs to maximized for them to work correctly. I refuse to use cookies on my websites. The only place you will see them is when students are logging into the classrooms. Their only purpose are to track who is going into the classrooms. I'll be back with you in a while when the Netscape problem is fixed. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 16:44:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31186 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:44:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Kk13Y005223; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Kk0Bt028634; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Kj4Bt028071 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3B004EQLN2HK@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: machine quilted Regency (was Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans In-reply-to: <002b01c268ec$1ec34740$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021001132211.04dd4e40@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:23:20 -0700 Status: RO >The lining is machine quilted to a thin wool interlining with shocking pink >thread. The lapels, cuffs and pocket flaps are another (fifth) shade of >green and are also machine quilted in shocking pink! Just to check my time-line here, how are they machine quilted? When were sewing machines invented? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 16:44:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31194 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:44:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KkE3Y005270; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KkEBt028737; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Kj4Bv028071 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3B004EQLN2HK@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyard In-reply-to: <70.23db04d6.2acb1eff@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021001133257.04db29f0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:36:05 -0700 Status: RO ><< Could this be a 'Banyan', Bjarne? They're a sort of 18th c. man's > > dressing gown. >> > >I just wanted to point out that a Banyan is "Undress" as opposed to "Dress". >This doesn't mean you only wear it in the privacy of your room. but at >home.....to be seen by visitors, not necessarily hidden away. It's just >depicted in portraits and other illustrations too much. It's not a bath robe, >really. But you'd never wear it out. There was a semi-Regency event hereabouts, called the Cyprians' Ball and supposedly set in a brothel, and my friend and I wore banyans and caps to that, over trousers, shirts, and waistcoats. It seemed appropriate, and neither of us has a proper period coat yet. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 16:44:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31198 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:44:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KkL3Y005291; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KkJBt028794; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Kj4Bx028071 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3B004EQLN2HK@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:45:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Bjarne blushing (was Re: [h-cost] Banyan In-reply-to: <001301c26982$023f8f20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021001133614.04db5900@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:40:05 -0700 Status: RO >Thank You all so much for correkting me here. >(Blushing all over) I have really made a fool of myself have i not!!! No need to blush, and no need to think you have made a fool of yourself. Every time I think that I know everything, life hits me on the head and tells me that I don't. "Oops" happens to us all. No problem. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 16:46:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31212 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:46:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Km33Y005428; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Km1Bt029762; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KlGBt029351 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AA626F8700F0; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:49:38 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AAB5B80254; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:51:01 -0500 Message-ID: <005d01c2698b$ca86d5c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:47:43 -0400 Status: RO Yes, Robin... you are so bright!!!!!! She is a he! But it is not Teddy. He hasn't sent a photo yet. Does anyone have his personal email address, so I can remind him? I will give you a hint on the Geisha... she is on h-costume! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "h-costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 > > On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: > > > The first guest was awarded this position for being so creative... it > > is h-costume's Kate Pinner's daughter bubble-wrap prom dress. Make > > sure to read the construction notes that Kate provided. This is the > > only guest that I have ever revealed their identity... but mother and > > daughter deserve some recognition. APPLAUSE!!! > > Golly, but that's a pretty dress! I couldn't have imagined how well that > would turn out. > > > There are a couple of other noteworthy things to not miss... There is > > a secret about Queen Elizabeth (figure out that mystery)... > > I'm guessing she is a he? > > Now I want to know who everyone is. Don't be shy, folks. Tell us which are > yours. Who is the geisha? > > Penny: This took a long time to load ... could it be the animation in the > back that slows it down so much? > > --Robin [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 16:50:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31251 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:50:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Kq13Y005792; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Kq0Bt002240; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f107.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91KoxBt001567 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:50:53 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 20:50:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of fabric stashes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2002 20:50:53.0949 (UTC) FILETIME=[3BCE02D0:01C2698C] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:50:53 -0700 Status: RO >I've ordered from them twice. Very satisfied both times. >They've got the best price I've found on Venice lace. > >Sheryl Nance-Durst > >At 02:55 PM 9/30/02 -0400, you wrote: >>Have you tried >> >>http://www.trimfabric.com/ http://www.cheaptrims.com They have great prices on venice lace trims!! You have to buy the whole roll/spool, but you get it for pennies on the dollar. Appliques and other trims too. Anything from 1/2" to full fabric widths and I've been thrilled with quality of everything I've ordered. (3 seperate times!!) Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 17:24:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31395 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:24:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91LQA3Y009326; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91LQ1Bt021141; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91LPKBt020698 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22916 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2002 21:24:13 -0000 Received: from tnt1-082220.kc.sound.net (HELO oemcomputer.sound.net) (209.153.82.220) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2002 21:24:13 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021001162611.00a045f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/sound.net@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yippeeeeeeeee In-Reply-To: <002701c2695e$1facb610$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:26:58 -0500 Status: RO Goody! Now we get to see lots more yummy pics of your stuff, right?!? Read fast! Sheryl Nance-Durst At 05:20 PM 10/1/02 +0200, you wrote: >Hi there. >Today was very expensive for my purse. Baught a weather station for Leif >(birthsday pressent) and >A DIGITAL CAMERA FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AAAAAAAAAArgh. >But i hate when i have to read a lot of stuff before i can do anything with >it. > >Bjarne > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 17:33:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31432 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:33:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91LZ23Y010043; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91LZ1Bt025711; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from crunchy.sound.net (crunchy.sound.net [205.242.194.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91LYaBt025505 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:34:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23450 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2002 21:33:29 -0000 Received: from tnt1-082220.kc.sound.net (HELO oemcomputer.sound.net) (209.153.82.220) by crunchy.sound.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2002 21:33:29 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021001163102.00a09640@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/sound.net@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online Costume Ball 2002 In-Reply-To: References: <02cb01c2693c$2d2a5b20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:36:15 -0500 Status: RO >Now I want to know who everyone is. Don't be shy, folks. Tell us which are >yours. Who is the geisha? --Robin That would be me. Last year's Halloween costume. I learned how hard it was to tie an obi by yourself! I'm looking forward to this year - I'm doing an Ionic chiton with a small hymation. Sheryl Nance-Durst _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 17:38:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31447 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:38:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Le13Y010541; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Le0Bt028368; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91LdpBt028258 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:39:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beec.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.236]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 738F9481AC2 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:39:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002501c26993$243139b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Banyan last time Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:40:20 +0200 Status: RO Thanks Kayta It was also the portrait of James Boswell. He is sitting outside with an owl staring at him from a tree, wich made me wonder. Bjarne No need to blush, and no need to think you have made a fool of yourself. Every time I think that I know everything, life hits me on the head and tells me that I don't. "Oops" happens to us all. No problem. Kayta _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 18:07:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31693 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:07:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91M943Y013285; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91M914w013154; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91M834w012606 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from GENTEELARTS (user125.net205.pa.sprint-hsd.net [65.173.69.125]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08519 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:07:57 -0500 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: Subject: RE: machine quilted Regency (was Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans Message-ID: <000c01c26996$fe0a1640$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021001132211.04dd4e40@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:07:53 -0400 Status: RO Machine quilted in a diamond pattern. The diamonds measure 1.25 inches from top to bottom and 1.125 inches from side to side; 14 stitches/inch. Howe is given credit for the first sewing machine in 1846, although there are earlier examples that were not widely produced. Sewing machines are relatively common for home use by the mid-1850s. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com >Just to check my time-line here, how are they machine quilted? When were sewing machines invented? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 18:20:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31764 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:20:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91MM43Y014227; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91MM04w019215; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91ML04w018757 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-024scfairp0114.dialsprint.net ([65.179.48.114] helo=faucet.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17wVNy-0003Rn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:20:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3D9A2DA1.9589DC48@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pin-on sleeves and more References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:20:01 -0500 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > > You folks are a really bad influence. I promised myself I'd get some work > done tonight Yeah, me too! > First: Melanie posted a couple of images from King Rene, and added: > > > Thanks actually go to Andra Keller, who made me free of her and her > > husband's astonishing library and who pointed out all sorts of > > fascinating tidbits about this time period, including this series of > > images. > > As an extra footnote here, I believe it was me who led Andra (and a bunch > of other people) to these particular images, when I spoke about them in my > lecture on the V-necked gown style at the SCA's KWCS in 2000. My deepest apologies. That was the one lecture I didn't get to at that conference that I really wanted to attend. And it is quite likely that Andra mentioned the source and I forgot it. I also don't remember your previous post to the list, for whatever reason. Again, I apologize. > Melanie provided some. I don't have the tapestry she referred to I threw her in under the Rene images here http://www.faucet.net/costume/shortsleeves.html >From a skim of the text, this figure could be Nature (or a Virtue or Vice, but almost certainly allegorical). She appears in two tapestries. You can see the label fairly well on the second closeup--can anyone confirm or deny the "Nature" allegation? It's not clear to me what it says, but it _could_ be Natura. > Yes, that's the Archer's Festival by the Master van Frankfort, about 1493, > in the Antwerp Musee des Beaux-arts. Yay! I'm not crazy! > OK, now I have to add all this into the lecture... Happy to provide grist for the ever-turning mill of your intellect. ;) Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 18:44:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31844 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:44:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Mk23Y016073; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91Mk04w000618; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91MjP4w000341 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01171 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:49:29 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pin-on sleeves and more In-Reply-To: <3D9A2DA1.9589DC48@faucet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:49:28 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > I threw her in under the Rene images here http://www.faucet.net/costume/shortsleeves.html > From a skim of the text, this figure could be Nature (or a Virtue or > Vice, but almost certainly allegorical). She appears in two tapestries. > You can see the label fairly well on the second closeup--can anyone > confirm or deny the "Nature" allegation? It's not clear to me what it > says, but it _could_ be Natura. That looks like what it says on the bottom one. These labels are *so* hard to read even when they're clear. Did you say these were 16th c.? They do look late 15th c. With tapestries, the figures might actually represent a range of dates, as cartoons were frequently re-used, and sometimes the figures recycled and rearranged into different designs with no updating, or only certain details updated. Plus it could take a *really* long time to finish a tapestry! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 19:23:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32099 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:23:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91NP33Y018785; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91NP04w016633; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91NOU4w016424 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:24:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (ip180.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.180]) by saltmine.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g91NOQPj019919 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Textiles in America, was copies and rare books] In-Reply-To: <200210012032.g91KWwBt021308@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:46:18 -0400 Status: RO At 01:32 PM 10/1/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Oh yes! Five years ago,a woman friend was trying to convince me that she had >the "perfect" man for me to meet. Her most convincing statement was that he >owned Textiles in America and had a fabric stash almost as big as mine! We >decided to marry after our third meeting and it would probably be a good idea >if we added another room to the house, or rented a warehouse for the combined >stash! > >Shea Shea, he IS the perfect man! Mine is perfect in other ways... unfortunately when it comes to textiles, he just wears whatever I tell him is appropriate ;) Hey, at least he tolerates that much of my insanity! -- Mara Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 19:27:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32120 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:27:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91NT13Y019033; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91NT04w018238; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g91NSH4w017925 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-123-41-11.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.123.41.11] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17wWR4-0007mv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 00:28:15 +0100 Message-ID: <003c01c269a2$aa797460$f9797ad5@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <001301c26982$023f8f20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:31:16 +0100 Status: RO Bjarne, I don't think you should worry too much; I have managed to get my hands on Elizabeth Ewing's 'Fur in Dress', and as far as I can see you could stick fur on anything you possess and still be appropriately garbed. From my perspective this is just as well, since I've been buying fur on e-bay... best wishes Stevie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 8:37 PM Subject: [h-cost] Banyan > Hello all you very helpfull people out there. > Thank You all so much for correkting me here. > (Blushing all over) I have really made a fool of myself have i not!!! > I was compleatly tricked because i thoaght when a garment was fur trimmed it > would be for outdoor wear. > But of cause you are right. It was very cold inside two, and i was tricked, > didnt think so much about that (used to central heating :-)) > Another picture tricked me, from Dress in Eighteenth Century Europe. There > is a picture on page 126 and i thoaght they were banyan's but they are > Greatcoats. > Well such a Greatcoat, could that not have ben cut similar way? It looks as > if it is t-shaped. But i dont know. > Dont know much about mens wear besides from Jacket, waistcoat, Shirt and > Bretches, but i am still learning. > But there is a cut of a Greatcoat in "Cut of Men's Clothes" > Surely i could trim a Greatcoat with Fur two? > It is because i really would like to try to make something with Fur. > Still blushing.............. > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 19:58:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32263 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:58:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g920023Y021267; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g920004w002640; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:00:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13104.mail.yahoo.com (web13104.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g91Nxi4w002554 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:59:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021001235942.36623.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.227.130.136] by web13104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:59:42 PDT From: Carol Mitchell To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021001224600.615.1413.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-908748184-1033516782=:16277" Subject: [h-cost] Victorian clothing clearance Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --0-908748184-1033516782=:16277 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I received this today and thought it might be of interest to people in that area. VICTORIAN INVENTORY FOR SALE [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] If you are a collector, or want to open your own complete Victorian Clothing and accessories shop, check this out!! We are downsizing to focus on wearable 20-70s clothing and accessories. This huge collection includes: over 475 pieces, most of which are 1 and 2 piece dresses( which also includes bustle gowns, fabulous whites, wedding gowns, lots of colors and prints); a fair amount of fancy white under things; loads of accessories, such as hats and bonnets, gloves, fans, 1860-1900 parasols, early laces , lovely purses, stockings, belts; shawls,boots and shoes. 7 Victorian dress forms and a beautiful large round brass Victorian rack included. The price ( $55,000 or best offer)is a good buy for a dealer ,even better for a collector! Most of this comes from a large 13 year collection, recently purchased. There is more than I have listed; of that, 80% is in very good to excellent shape; there are some others that need repair and /or restoration. Most have been cleaned, and this ! is! a non-smoking environment. You can see some of the items on line at http://www.catspajamas.com. Shipping is not an option. If you are interested, please email and we can set up an appointment.It is located in Northeastern Pennsylvania.Have a Purr~fect Day!!~Miss Kitty~~ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! --0-908748184-1033516782=:16277 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I received this today and thought it might be of interest to people in that area.

VICTORIAN INVENTORY FOR SALE


If you are a collector, or want to open your own complete Victorian 
Clothing and accessories shop, check this out!! We are downsizing to focus 
on wearable 20-70s clothing and accessories. This huge collection 
includes: over 475 pieces, most of which are 1 and 2 piece dresses( which 
also includes bustle gowns, fabulous whites, wedding gowns, lots of 
colors and prints); a fair amount of fancy white under things; loads of 
accessories, such as hats and bonnets, gloves, fans, 1860-1900 parasols, 
early laces , lovely purses, stockings, belts; shawls,boots and shoes. 7 
Victorian dress forms and a beautiful large round brass Victorian rack 
included. The price ( $55,000 or best offer)is a good buy for a dealer 
,even better for a collector! Most of this comes from a large 13 year 
collection, recently purchased. There is more than I have listed; of 
that, 80% is in very good to excellent shape; there are some others that 
need repair and /or restoration. Most have been cleaned, and this is!
 a non-smoking environment. You can see some of the items on line at 
http://www.catspajamas.com. Shipping is not an option. If you are 
interested, please email and we can set up an appointment.It is located in 
Northeastern Pennsylvania.

Have a Purr~fect Day!!

~Miss Kitty~~


Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! --0-908748184-1033516782=:16277-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 21:09:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32632 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:09:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g921BB3Y025229; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g921B14w023802; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g921AG4w023615 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:10:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.178] (pm5-178.eos.net [205.133.149.178]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23024 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:10:13 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021001130001.9362.48657.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: pin-on sleeves etc. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:08:27 -0400 Status: RO Robin: I remember your mentioning the idea of a style for girl's gowns that laced up the front in a post several months ago, I think. Do you think that the aforementioned allegorical crewmember of King Rene's ship is wearing the same thing, a variant, or something else altogether? To me it looks different from what the young girls are wearing. Speaking of which, I was looking through the Memling works on the site you referred to and being amazed at the wonders of modern technology that allowed me to do so when I found another one of them. Look at the youngest girl, not the one that looks like Judy Garland. http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/memling/1early1/01prese1.jpg Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 21:33:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32757 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:33:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g921Z23Y026195; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g921Z14w000737; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g921YQ4w000576 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alderweb.vaxxine.com (ppp341.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.218.87]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20492 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.0.20021001212201.00beb580@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@pop.vaxxine.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 To: h-costume@indra.com From: David Webb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Banyans - pattern Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:56:50 -0400 Status: RO Hello everyone: This thread reminds me that I purchased a banyan pattern/leaflet at Deerfield Village this summer, after seeing their small but splendid men's costume exhibit, curated by Edward F. Maeder of "An Elegant Art" fame. Granted the original was in Indian painted cotton, but still... I'm sorry I can't supply any more information - life is chaotic. We're crammed into an apartment while we build an addition to our house and my costume files and books that aren't in storage cannot be found, not even for ready money, replaced by historic architecture and interiors files and books. I checked the Historic Deerfield site, but couldn't find any reference to the publication or the exhibit, but maybe someone more tenacious may have better luck http://www.historic-deerfield.org Sheridan Alder _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 22:32:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00573 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g922Y13Y029919; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g922Y04w017674; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g922WE4w017166 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:32:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021002023214.76926.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:32:14 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need advice/suggestions for giornea pattern To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20020929165206.36198.qmail@web11701.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:32:14 +1000 (EST) Status: RO You're welcome, glad I could help. :) Bella --- carol wrote: > > Thank you Bella for your help, the pictures were > very helpful as was the definition you sent .... > based on the information, I feel like I have a good > idea of where to go from here > Many thanks > Carol > Bella wrote:--- carol wrote: > > > Greetings one and all ..... > > Can any one suggest a website with good pictures > of > > late 15th/early 16th century Italian clothing ? I > > am particularly looking for good pictures of a > > garment called a giornea, both front and back, so > I > > can get an idea of how to construct said garment. > > Or, if anyone has patterns or instructions, that > > would most helpful ... > > Thanks in advance > > Carol > > > According to the glossary from "Dress in Renaissance > Italy, 1400-1500", a giornea (for a female, although > there is also a male version) is: > > "GIORNEA (F). An overdress, open in front and down > the > sides, to allow the textile of the cotta worn > underneath to show through. The giornea is quite > often > longer at the back of the hem, offering a sweeping > profile in movement. It may or may not have detached > sleeves. It is a summer garment, worn more often in > Florence than further north, where the pellanda, > with > open or closed long sleeves, is more suitable for > most > of the year. Sometimes, however, the giornea is > lined > with fur, in which case it may be worn during the > cooler months. It appears to be a garment normally > worn by the young. In a law of 1456, the giornea is > associated with the cioppa, both being garments worn > directly over the cotta. It was stated that women > were > allowed up to two silk overgarments -- to be worn at > separate times -- one for winter, the other for > summer. It could be a cioppa, or a giornea, > whichever > was preferred, with one cotta for wearing underneath > (Polidori Calamandrei, p. 44)." > > Vangelissta has kindly webbed the glossary, and you > can find it here: > > > > Lucrezia Tornabuoni wears one in this painting: > > > > > Period Patterns #41 includes a pattern for one of > these (they call it a tabard - first lady on the > lower > left): > > > > There's also a Simplicity pattern that might be > suitable: > > > > > > > > ===== > Lady Bella Lucia da Verona > Innilgard, Lochac > > The Realm of Venus > http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona > Owner, Courtesan E-mail Group > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan > ===== Lady Bella Lucia da Verona Innilgard, Lochac The Realm of Venus http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona Owner, Courtesan E-mail Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 22:34:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00582 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:34:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g922a23Y000120; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g922a14w018323; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20207.mail.yahoo.com (web20207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g922Zb4w018206 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021002023537.14498.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:35:37 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] help Penny To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001501c26987$3a5d7520$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:35:37 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > What may have happened is that the site was busy and > got bogged down. I > will check with my host. I had the same occurence, but I since I had read there were 15 entrants so far and that's the point at which it started to happen, I just put it down to pages that haven't gone "live" yet. Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 22:45:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00635 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:45:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g922823Y028146; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g922814w010078; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9227b4w009935 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02317 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:11:41 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pin-on sleeves etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:11:41 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > I remember your mentioning the idea of a style for girl's gowns that > laced up the front in a post several months ago, I think. I don't recall, but I prattle on so much it could have been me as well as anyone! > Do you think that the aforementioned allegorical crewmember of King > Rene's ship is wearing the same thing, a variant, or something else > altogether? To me it looks different from what the young girls are > wearing. I think the Rene gowns are similar to the girls' examples I cited in that the dresses seem to be cut so there will be a gap when they are fully laced -- that is, they aren't meant to lace shut. But the Rene dresses are clearly underdresses. Most of the other examples seem to be intended to be top-layer formal dresses, worn either over another dress or just over a placket; it's hard to tell. And the lacing is rather casual/functional on the Rene examples, not formally/decoratively arranged. Was there another difference that caught your eye? In the example you just found (great catch!) > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/memling/1early1/01prese1.jpg it's obviously a top layer -- the neckline is furred. I am inclined to think that the style is typical for girls because of growth and figure issues, and atypical for grown women because of inadequate bust support. That would explain the relative proportions of appearances of the style on realistic figures in art (e.g. mostly girls). But allegorical figures and nubile saints can wear anything they want! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 22:56:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00653 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:56:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g922L23Y028843; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g922L04w013711; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f16.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g922KV4w013587 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:20:26 -0700 Received: from 65.67.61.194 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 02:20:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.67.61.194] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] help Penny Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2002 02:20:26.0363 (UTC) FILETIME=[4514F4B0:01C269BA] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 02:20:25 +0000 Status: RO Penny - I'm also having the same problem (as of Tuesday evening). I've got a DSL connection. Mary/Katerine >What may have happened is that the site was busy and got bogged down. I >will check with my host. They are supposed to be putting my sites on other >servers to handle the Halloween high visitation. What speed of modem are >you using? > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cascio Michael" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:01 PM >Subject: [h-cost] help Penny > > > > Penny, > > I was happily scrolling through the on-line ball > > pics when I got to group 4 and kept getting the 404 > > error. Are these not there then? I tried using the > > next arrow and when that didn't work I skipped to the > > other groups and got the same error. I haven't seen > > Teddy yet :( > > Cassandra (who hates being awake > > in what is the middle of my night, graveyard shift > > worker ;) ) > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 23:16:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00728 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:16:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g923H33Y002275; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g923H14w029245; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g923G44w029023 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A5BC30D4004C; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 22:19:24 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A5D5244022C; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 22:19:49 -0500 Message-ID: <003f01c269c2$138a5540$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] help Penny X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:16:18 -0400 Status: RO Currently there are only 15 guests up. I wrote that in my original message. I guess a lot of people missed that. I put the other groups links up so that I didn't have to go back and add them to all the other webpages. I will be adding some more guests tonight. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Temple" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] help Penny > Penny - > > I'm also having the same problem (as of Tuesday evening). I've got a DSL > connection. > > Mary/Katerine > > >What may have happened is that the site was busy and got bogged down. I > >will check with my host. They are supposed to be putting my sites on other > >servers to handle the Halloween high visitation. What speed of modem are > >you using? > > > >Penny Ladnier > >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > >http://www.costumegallery.com > >http://www.costumeclassroom.com > >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Cascio Michael" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:01 PM > >Subject: [h-cost] help Penny > > > > > > > Penny, > > > I was happily scrolling through the on-line ball > > > pics when I got to group 4 and kept getting the 404 > > > error. Are these not there then? I tried using the > > > next arrow and when that didn't work I skipped to the > > > other groups and got the same error. I haven't seen > > > Teddy yet :( > > > Cassandra (who hates being awake > > > in what is the middle of my night, graveyard shift > > > worker ;) ) > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > >(http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > > > > > > > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > >(http://www.plugit.com)] > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 1 23:19:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00738 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:19:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g923KM3Y002452; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g923KM4w000241; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g923Jf4w029961 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-013scfairp0433.dialsprint.net ([63.183.129.179] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17wa32-0000pM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 20:19:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3D9A73A3.E22CDC18@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] source for late Medieval/Renaissance eyeglasses Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 23:18:43 -0500 Status: RO Greetings For whoever might be in need of late medieval or Renaissance spectacles: http://www.renspecs.com/ I don't know the guy and I've never seen his product, but the style he's got available right now is only $35 with lenses (lenses in standard reading-glasses strengths, not necessarily to your prescription if you have astigmatism, etc.). More styles seem to be on the way. Cheers, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 05:55:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16651 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 05:55:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g929v73Y016698; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 03:57:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g929v04w024372; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 03:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g929ud4w024305 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 03:56:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A39D71F900E8; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 04:59:57 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A3B8200DA; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 05:00:24 -0500 Message-ID: <014201c269f9$b3eb2320$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Ball Update Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 05:54:30 -0400 Status: RO I added more guests to the Ball last night. Some h-costumers are in this addition. I added from Guest 16-22. For those who want to start where you left off, start in group 4. I wasn't trying to be mean to Nicole yesterday... I was trying to drop a hint that the guest in the red gown from Germany was NOT Nicole. I'm sorry Nicole. The star background is not what was bogging down the site yesterday... that image is only about 1.5" X 1.5"... tiny, tiny. My host did have a problem yesterday for a couple of hours. But another problem was that we had over 2,000 visitors on the site within one hour. I clocked it. I did make the guest images a little smaller today to load faster. If you are having problems seeing the images here are a couple of suggestions: ***For those on PCs, up your cache as high as possible. Then refresh/reload the site. ***Close all open windows and then go to the site. PLEASE REMEMBER: Today's last Guest is #22. Have Fun! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 06:26:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16782 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 06:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92AS13Y017674; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 04:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92AS04w000764; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 04:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g92ARJ4w000644 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 04:27:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021002102719.64699.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:27:19 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ball Update To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <014201c269f9$b3eb2320$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:27:19 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > > I wasn't trying to be mean to Nicole yesterday... I was trying to drop a > hint that the guest in the red gown from Germany was NOT Nicole. I'm sorry > Nicole. Oh I know, I didn't take it like that, please don't worry, but I DID need a kick in the butt to send the piccies at long last :-) It's nice to meet old familiar faces in many of the photos. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 08:01:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17168 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:01:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92C223Y020842; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 06:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92C214w018962; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 06:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92C194w018746 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 06:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3C00FPYG86QZ@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 00:45:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: machine quilted Regency (was Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans In-reply-to: <000c01c26996$fe0a1640$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021002001242.00c93d70@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20021001132211.04dd4e40@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 00:14:54 -0700 Status: RO >Machine quilted in a diamond pattern. The diamonds measure 1.25 inches from >top to bottom and 1.125 inches from side to side; 14 stitches/inch. > >Howe is given credit for the first sewing machine in 1846, although there >are earlier examples that were not widely produced. Sewing machines are >relatively common for home use by the mid-1850s. > > >Just to check my time-line here, how are they machine quilted? When were >sewing machines invented? I guess what I meant to say is, how can a Regency garment, presumable made before 1820, be quilted by a machine invented in the 1840s? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 09:47:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17471 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:47:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92DmM3Y025066; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 07:48:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Dl04w014535; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 07:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Dk44w014244 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 07:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g92Dk3ae000967 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:46:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyan In-Reply-To: <003c01c269a2$aa797460$f9797ad5@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Speaking of Banyans... There seem to be two styles in use in the 18th c. One style is cut very much like a man's coat, but probably without so much interlining/structure (will need to go back and look at my books to verify that); the other is cut more in a loosely fitting T-shape, and reflects the banyan's origin as a cotton robe imported from the Orient; the examples I've seen of this style (the one at Old Deefield Village and the one in _Fitting and Proper_) are both in printed Indian cottons. I think the one Bjarne is looking at is probably teh former type, cut more like an 18th c. man's coat. That's the style that I'm going to use for that grey watered silk (or acetate, if we can't find the silk), as the fabric lends itself well to the more structured style. Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 10:01:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17530 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:01:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92E2N3Y026016; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92E114w019065; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92E0D4w018721 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.19d.9c442e4 (3874) for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:59:54 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <19d.9c442e4.2acc55da@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyard To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_19d.9c442e4.2acc55da_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:59:54 EDT Status: RO --part1_19d.9c442e4.2acc55da_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/2002 11:55:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > It's just > depicted in portraits and other illustrations too much. There is a quote that goes something like, "learned men are portrayed in gowns." So a scholar might choose to be painted in a banyan. Ann Wass --part1_19d.9c442e4.2acc55da_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/2002 11:55:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes:


It's just
depicted in portraits and other illustrations too much.


There is a quote that goes something like, "learned men are portrayed in gowns." So a scholar might choose to be painted in a banyan.
Ann Wass --part1_19d.9c442e4.2acc55da_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 10:04:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17537 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:04:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92E6L3Y026216; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92E504w020426; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92E4G4w020170 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:04:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.7c.2eef8018 (3874) for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:03:55 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <7c.2eef8018.2acc56ca@aol.com> Subject: Re: machine quilted Regency (was Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7c.2eef8018.2acc56ca_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:03:54 EDT Status: RO --part1_7c.2eef8018.2acc56ca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/2002 4:46:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > The lining is machine quilted to a thin wool interlining with shocking pink > >thread. The lapels, cuffs and pocket flaps are another (fifth) shade of > >green and are also machine quilted in shocking pink! > > The description of the outer fabric, the brown print, sounds very like other garments I have seen from the 2nd quarter of the 19th century, which would make machine quilting possible. Ann Wass --part1_7c.2eef8018.2acc56ca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/2002 4:46:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes:


The lining is machine quilted to a thin wool interlining with shocking pink
>thread.  The lapels, cuffs and pocket flaps are another (fifth) shade of
>green and are also machine quilted in shocking pink!



The description of the outer fabric, the brown print, sounds very like other garments I have seen from the 2nd quarter of the 19th century, which would make machine quilting possible.
Ann Wass --part1_7c.2eef8018.2acc56ca_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 10:06:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17548 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:06:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92E8L3Y026344; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92E704w021169; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92E5J4w020502 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:05:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.175.fa6f27d (3874) for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:05:07 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <175.fa6f27d.2acc5713@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyan last time To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_175.fa6f27d.2acc5713_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:05:07 EDT Status: RO --part1_175.fa6f27d.2acc5713_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/2002 5:40:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > It was also the portrait of James Boswell. He is sitting outside with an owl > staring at him from a tree, wich made me wonder. > > I presume the owl is also a symbol of wisdom, to reinforce the gentleman's scholarly status. Ann Wass --part1_175.fa6f27d.2acc5713_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/2002 5:40:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


It was also the portrait of James Boswell. He is sitting outside with an owl
staring at him from a tree, wich made me wonder.



I presume the owl is also a symbol of wisdom, to reinforce the gentleman's scholarly status.
Ann Wass --part1_175.fa6f27d.2acc5713_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 10:12:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17577 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92EDQ3Y026701; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:13:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92EC04w022994; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92EBb4w022818 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:11:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.120.171fef47 (3874) for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:11:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <120.171fef47.2acc5890@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_120.171fef47.2acc5890_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:11:28 EDT Status: RO --part1_120.171fef47.2acc5890_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/2/2002 9:49:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: > the other is > cut more in a loosely fitting T-shape, and reflects the banyan's origin as > a cotton robe imported from the Orient; There is a diagram for this type in Diderot. As to the more fitted, tailored one, I made one based on the photo of the circa-1820 one in the Brooklyn Museum shown on the cover of "For Men Only," the great catalogue from their costume exhibition years ago. This one has a matching waistcoat. I usually call this garment a morning gown, to distinguish it from the more T-shaped banyan, but am not sure if this distinction was actually made in the period. Ann Wass --part1_120.171fef47.2acc5890_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/2/2002 9:49:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes:


the other is
cut more in a loosely fitting T-shape, and reflects the banyan's origin as
a cotton robe imported from the Orient;


There is a diagram for this type in Diderot.  As to the more fitted, tailored one, I made one based on the photo of the circa-1820 one in the Brooklyn Museum shown on the cover of "For Men Only," the great catalogue from their costume exhibition years ago.  This one has a matching waistcoat.  I usually call this garment a morning gown, to distinguish it from the more T-shaped banyan, but am not sure if this distinction was actually made in the period.
Ann Wass --part1_120.171fef47.2acc5890_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 10:26:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17624 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:26:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92ESM3Y027591; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92ER04w028630; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92EQi4w028509 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net by mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) id <0H3C00C01XFS4B@mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3C002WWYCUF9@mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:17:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred In-reply-to: X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Subject: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:17:13 -0400 Status: RO I friend was lamenting yesterday on the styles of teenagers now-a-days. I mentioned that this has been going on for centuries as I remember reading a letter from a dad complaining about his childs method of dress from, I think, the 14th or 15th century. Does anyone on this list know of that letter, have a copy of it or can point me to where it might be published? Are there similar letters from other centuries? Somehow I don't think this was just a modern and Medieval thing. Rhianwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 10:35:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17672 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:35:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92EbM3Y028277; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:37:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Ea04w002423; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g92EZu4w002388 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:35:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 64558 invoked by uid 0); 2 Oct 2002 14:35:56 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 2 Oct 2002 14:35:56 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021002103402.K30556-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO It's not precisely dress related...but when I was in Berlin, I got to see a 3000(?) year old cuneiform tablet: a letter from a son to his father. The son was studying at a school for scribes in a large city. In this clay "letter", he was complaining to his father that he didn't have enough money for fashionable cloths and other student expenses, and would dad please send a little extra. I guess things really don't change... Drea On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Linda Krecker-Schkred wrote: > I friend was lamenting yesterday on the styles of teenagers > now-a-days. I mentioned that this has been going on for centuries as > I remember reading a letter from a dad complaining about his childs > method of dress from, I think, the 14th or 15th century. > > Does anyone on this list know of that letter, have a copy of it or > can point me to where it might be published? > > Are there similar letters from other centuries? Somehow I don't think > this was just a modern and Medieval thing. > > Rhianwen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 10:44:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17724 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:44:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92EkM3Y029015; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Ej04w006358; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92EiH4w005987 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3C00JUMZLSV2@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:44:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion In-reply-to: <20021002103402.K30556-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Drea Leed Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20021002103402.K30556-100000@shell.siscom.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:44:10 -0400 Status: RO That's so funny! Perfect! Things don't really change at all! Rhianwen At 10:35 AM -0400 10/2/02, Drea Leed wrote: >It's not precisely dress related...but when I was in Berlin, I got to see >a 3000(?) year old cuneiform tablet: a letter from a son to his father. >The son was studying at a school for scribes in a large city. In this >clay "letter", he was complaining to his father that he didn't have >enough money for fashionable cloths and other student expenses, and would >dad please send a little extra. > >I guess things really don't change... > >Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 10:56:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17787 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:56:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92EwM3Y000164; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Ev04w011799; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92EuK4w011469 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:56:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17wkvD-0002sF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:56:19 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion Organization: PII Message-ID: <002601c26a24$a2250fe0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <20021002103402.K30556-100000@shell.siscom.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:01:45 -0700 Status: RO Again not precisely related, but reading in the "Dress in Ireland" I guess there was a fashion for awhile of wearing your treaus (I know that isn't spelled right, but I don't have my books with me) really baggy and folks were lamenting that fashion. I also love the 'invention' by 'dandies' of wearing the liripipe hood with the face hole on top of the head and the rest all piled up. You know that had to draw similar contempt! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 11:06:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17845 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:06:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92F8N3Y001038; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:08:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92F714w016666; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92F6q4w016586 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:06:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3D007R40NRZ1@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:07:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: RE: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion In-reply-to: <002601c26a24$a2250fe0$6501a8c0@Home> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <002601c26a24$a2250fe0$6501a8c0@Home> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:06:46 -0400 Status: RO At 8:01 AM -0700 10/2/02, Saragrace knauf wrote: >Again not precisely related, but reading in the "Dress in Ireland" I >guess there was a fashion for awhile of wearing your treaus (I know that >isn't spelled right, but I don't have my books with me) really baggy >and folks were lamenting that fashion. That's similar to the 1920's fashion of really wide pants on the Ivy League set. Some of their trouser legs measured 22". I bet dads and mom's of that time didn't really like it at all. Now, my teenage daughter has a favorite pair of pants that I'd bet has legs wider than 22" >I also love the 'invention' by >'dandies' of wearing the liripipe hood with the face hole on top of the >head and the rest all piled up. You know that had to draw similar >contempt! Probably the thing that this letter I'm seeking complained about. Rhianwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 11:11:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17866 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:11:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92FDR3Y001459; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92FC14w019130; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92FBv4w019053 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g92FBPo5061373 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:11:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200210021511.g92FBPo5061373@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Linda Krecker-Schkred" at Oct 02, 2002 11:06:46 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Those were called Oxford Bags, and I've seen photos of them where the legs were at least twice that wide -- each leg was a full skirt, almost. They are SO MUCH fun to see guys wearing when they are dancing. .heather. > > At 8:01 AM -0700 10/2/02, Saragrace knauf wrote: > >Again not precisely related, but reading in the "Dress in Ireland" I > >guess there was a fashion for awhile of wearing your treaus (I know that > >isn't spelled right, but I don't have my books with me) really baggy > >and folks were lamenting that fashion. > > That's similar to the 1920's fashion of really wide pants on the Ivy > League set. Some of their trouser legs measured 22". I bet dads and > mom's of that time didn't really like it at all. Now, my teenage > daughter has a favorite pair of pants that I'd bet has legs wider > than 22" > > >I also love the 'invention' by > >'dandies' of wearing the liripipe hood with the face hole on top of the > >head and the rest all piled up. You know that had to draw similar > >contempt! > > Probably the thing that this letter I'm seeking complained about. > > Rhianwen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 12:26:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18326 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:26:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92GRQ3Y007816; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92GQ24w029608; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92GP24w028974 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021002162457.HYJL6431.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:24:57 +0000 Message-ID: <004201c26a30$3d83af90$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <200210021511.g92FBPo5061373@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:24:53 -0700 Status: RO And what about the Incroyables in revolutionary France? I believe they were primarily youths... - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 12:45:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18408 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:45:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Gl33Y009748; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Gl1Wv011349; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92GkHWv010969 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17wmdc-0002DG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 09:46:16 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion Organization: PII Message-ID: <003501c26a33$f78414e0$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <004201c26a30$3d83af90$befc8218@hopperflop2> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:51:32 -0700 Status: RO What are Incroyables?? Is that where all the national/peasant garb became the rage? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 12:56:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18454 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:56:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Gw33Y010736; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Gw1Wv017732; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92GvpWv017568 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:57:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021002165746.DGAT27763.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:57:46 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c26a34$d3a6c1c0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <003501c26a33$f78414e0$6501a8c0@Home> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:57:43 -0700 Status: RO Incroyables (Unbelievables) and Merveilleuses (Marvelouses) were (I believe) young, well-off men and women who during the French Revolution took to wearing very over-the-top fashions. I think there may have been a political connection with this, but I'm blanking on it -- anyone have Aileen Ribiero's _Fashion in the French Revolution_ handy? An example: http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/images/PLATE75CX.JPG - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion > What are Incroyables?? Is that where all the national/peasant garb > became the rage? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 12:57:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18458 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:57:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Gx13Y010839; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Gx1Wv018259; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92GwdWv018026 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234948pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.182.133]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3D009RU5TJ1V@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:58:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3D9B25B7.1020407@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 References: <20021002095700.24370.34883.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:58:31 -0400 Status: RO If your only desire is for specs for reading, yeah, maybe.... But, personally I find his webpage insulting to say the least (if you read his blurb about how awful and jarring it is to *have* to look at those of us with glasses). And the only possible pair for use other than sedate activities (and I can't see any of them being practical for sewing either) not only doesn't look vaguely "period" but since they appear to tie to your face, which would put the glass right by your eyes, look like a funny looking mask with plastic circles, etc... his attempt at "selling" his product in that blurb is that much more insulting. Sorry, but even if some of them do look authentic, he'll not be seeing my money any time in the near future. -Elisabeth (still surprised that that page bugs me as much as it does.... tempted to send off an e-mail to him about it, actually....) >From: Melanie Schuessler > >For whoever might be in need of late medieval or Renaissance spectacles: > >http://www.renspecs.com/ > >I don't know the guy and I've never seen his product, but the style he's >got available right now is only $35 with lenses (lenses in standard >reading-glasses strengths, not necessarily to your prescription if you >have astigmatism, etc.). More styles seem to be on the way. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 13:14:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18667 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:14:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92HG33Y012504; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92HG1Wv027789; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92HF8Wv027333 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17wn5X-0006i0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:15:07 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <004001c26a37$fc927f40$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Places to visit/shop in South Western China?? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:20:19 -0700 Status: RO I am going to China for a few weeks off and on this fall. Any suggestions for textile/costume museums, historical places and places to shop are appreciated. I will be working in Daya Bay which is way out in the boonies on the south western coast. I am still trying to find out what bigger cities are close by. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 13:34:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19021 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:34:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Ha63Y014197; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Ha2Wv008795; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pageartists.com ([207.159.140.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92HZaWv008502 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from horse (pdx-ppp319.pop1.net [209.102.127.156]) by pageartists.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10567; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:35:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004801c26a3a$ec80b2e0$a5a1fea9@horse> From: "Brenna" To: , , , "the Cathedral Steps" , , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT - Fw: Bad checks... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:41:20 -0700 Status: RO Please forgive the cross-posts but this is important. I found this on the orycon-l list and have received permission from Lauryn to re-post it elsewhere. In her words - "Be my guest! the more people that know about her the better for all of us." I, myself, am posting this to the following groups - GPACG-general(at)yahoogroups.com, AnTirMerchants(at)yahoogroups.com, margospatterns(at)yahoogroups.com, steps(at)antir.sca.org (the Cathedral Steps), h-costume(at)indra.com, and ICG-D(at)yahoogroups.com All these have either merchants or merchant contacts on them. If you know of any lists (or merchants not on these lists) that would be interested, please forward. If you need to contact Lauryn directly, please contact me offline at brenna@robewarriors.com Thank you for the bandwidth and keep your eyes open for this person. Brenna Sharp B Sharp Fabrics ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauryn MacGregor | Little Toad Designs" To: "Orycon Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 8:57 AM Subject: [ORYCON-L] Bad checks... > I recently vended at the Shrewsbury RenFaire and recieved a bad check. > Aparently this woman and or women is passing bad checks professionaly > and any vendors should be ware of her. The checks were for a business > called Maiden, Mother,& Crone out fo Oakdale California. The signature > on the check was Debbie Graziano. But there is no such person. The > checks were issued to an addres in Southbeach Oregon and the account has > not been good for at least three years. If any of the vendors on the > list have a bad check from her you can contact - > Dawn Bradely Berry > Dreamlizard Pearls & Plunder > P.O.Box 2251 > San MArcos, Cal 92079 > &07-761-4916 > 760-518-2411(cell) > > She is putting together a case against this woman. So far the evil scum > has passed checks in three states all to crafters and artists. Most of > us do this because we love our art, but we also live on a shoestring and > can't afford to be burned like this. > > Thanks for the rant space and look out for these people. > > Lauryn > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 13:45:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19153 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:45:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Hk63Y015113; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:46:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Hk0Wv014597; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Hj0Wv014060 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:45:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.195.253] (as3-4-11.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.195.253]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g92HixN07524 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:32:15 -0700 Status: RO At 10:17 AM -0400 10/2/02, Linda Krecker-Schkred wrote: >I friend was lamenting yesterday on the styles of teenagers >now-a-days. I mentioned that this has been going on for centuries as >I remember reading a letter from a dad complaining about his childs >method of dress from, I think, the 14th or 15th century. > >Does anyone on this list know of that letter, have a copy of it or >can point me to where it might be published? > >Are there similar letters from other centuries? Somehow I don't >think this was just a modern and Medieval thing. If there _isn't_ a popular book out there with historic quotations of the 'perennial lament' genre, there certainly _ought_ to be. I know one can find Roman-empire-era quotations along the lines of "taxes are outrageous, young people don't respect their elders, and the world is generally going to pot". Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 14:05:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19353 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:05:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92I733Y016987; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92I71Wv025953; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g92I6LWv025620 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021002180621.92445.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:06:21 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D9B25B7.1020407@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:06:21 +0100 (BST) Status: RO I'm sorry, but maybe I can help your anger and make it a bit better, you COMPLETELY misunderstood the chap. I am not affiliated but feel it is unfair to him to not try and put what he said in perspective,and to not keep prospective customers from the site. He did not say a word about people with glasses are bad to look at on his main page, he talked about inauthentic glasses, and that this is not nice to look at while wearing a nice costume. He in no way insults spectacle-wearing people, he just says it doesn't look good wearing anachronistic stuff while in costume, and we had this discussion gazillions of time (so let's not gett into this again) and yes I fully agree, but as I said phuleeze not again the modern spectacle yes or no discussion, it always ends in flames (well, 99% of the time anyway). BTW, your perception of him making ppl look ugly with those glasses isn't quite right, because this is what spectacles looked like in certain periods. While I agree it looks unusual it looks totally authentic. I know some people here who have those, and it looks cool, because it looks right when they are in costume. So, please, I hope your anger has died down, because he did not offend in the way you believed he did,and I would hate to see a name possibly being blackened (just in case, because these things can possibly happen) when he actually didn't say any nasty things about spectacle-wearers. Nicole - she with a threateningly strong sense of justice --- Liz / Cozit wrote: > If your only desire is for specs for reading, yeah, maybe.... But, > personally I find his webpage insulting to say the least (if you read > his blurb about how awful and jarring it is to *have* to look at those > of us with glasses). And the only possible pair for use other than > sedate activities (and I can't see any of them being practical for > sewing either) not only doesn't look vaguely "period" but since they > appear to tie to your face, which would put the glass right by your > eyes, look like a funny looking mask with plastic circles, etc... his > attempt at "selling" his product in that blurb is that much more insulting. > > Sorry, but even if some of them do look authentic, he'll not be seeing > my money any time in the near future. > > -Elisabeth (still surprised that that page bugs me as much as it > does.... tempted to send off an e-mail to him about it, actually....) > > >From: Melanie Schuessler > > > >For whoever might be in need of late medieval or Renaissance spectacles: > > > >http://www.renspecs.com/ > > > >I don't know the guy and I've never seen his product, but the style he's > >got available right now is only $35 with lenses (lenses in standard > >reading-glasses strengths, not necessarily to your prescription if you > >have astigmatism, etc.). More styles seem to be on the way. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 14:16:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19401 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:16:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92II43Y017844; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:18:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92II1Wv001970; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92IHFWv001587 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:17:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.149] (pm5-149.eos.net [205.133.149.149]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19085 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:17:14 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021002095700.24370.34883.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: pin-on sleeves etc. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 14:15:31 -0400 Status: RO Robin: The big difference seems to be that the gown the girls wear is indeed an outer gown, with long sleeves etc., and that it has a wide gap under the lacing. The one on the King Rene image was much more tightly laced and, of course, had a front placket over it or as an integral part of it. I was intruiged by your mention of a woman with this style dress but a placket UNDER it (covering the chemise) but I accidentally deleted the letter. I guess I'm just trying to get a handle on whether this was an actual dress or just something in this one picture. The eternal question, huh? Gail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 15:21:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19819 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:21:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92JN83Y023058; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:23:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92JN1Wv006430; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92JMdWv006158 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:22:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from GENTEELARTS (user125.net205.pa.sprint-hsd.net [65.173.69.125]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11079 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:22:33 -0500 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: Message-ID: <001101c26a49$0dd70f30$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021002001242.00c93d70@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] RE: machine quilted - not regency Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:22:30 -0400 Status: RO I'm not sure how you thought this was a Regency garment, but as I stated in my posts the original garment I'm studying and reproducing is mid-nineteenth, 1855-1865. :-) Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com <> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 15:34:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19874 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:34:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Ja23Y024412; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Ja1Wv013780; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92JZUWv013488 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:35:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07470 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:39:37 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: pin-on sleeves etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:39:37 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > The big difference seems to be that the gown the girls wear is indeed > an outer gown, with long sleeves etc., and that it has a wide gap > under the lacing. The one on the King Rene image was much more tightly > laced and, of course, had a front placket over it or as an integral > part of it. I'm not sure what you mean by "tightly laced." The gap on the Rene dresses looks to me to be about the same as on the women and girls wearing the gap-laced overgowns. You don't see the top portion of the gap because of the placket over it. And with a good reproduction it's clear that the placket is a separate rectangle of a different color (black, compared to the navy of the dress), a little wider than the opening, and placed over the opening. I would assume it's pinned into place over the wide-laced gap. > I was intruiged by your mention of a woman with this style dress but a > placket UNDER it (covering the chemise) but I accidentally deleted the > letter. I'll send you a copy. I think the Magdalen is a good example, but all of the dresses I mentioned showed a non-chemise fabric under the lacings. > I guess I'm just trying to get a handle on whether this was an actual > dress or just something in this one picture. The eternal question, > huh? I think there are enough examples of the wide-gapped dresses that we can feel secure they existed. Who wore them, and in what circumstances, and whether as overdresses or underdresses or both ... those are the questions here, I think. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 15:35:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19885 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:35:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Jb33Y024504; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Jb2Wv014343; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f185.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92JaCWv013842 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:36:06 -0700 Received: from 80.3.160.4 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:36:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.160.4] From: "Joy Shillaker" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2002 19:36:06.0968 (UTC) FILETIME=[F3C4CB80:01C26A4A] Subject: [h-cost] Incroyable Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:36:06 +0000 Status: RO Hello, I was looking at The Inroyable a few months ago. I think they were Royalist. Some wore their hair cut very ragged and wore a red ribbon around the neck. Rather macabre as this was symbolic of the victims of the guillotine. regards Joy _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 16:02:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20078 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:02:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92K3l3Y027283; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92K3SWv028949; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:03:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g92K1lWv027979 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:01:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021002200146.87076.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:01:46 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Incroyable To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:01:46 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Joy Shillaker wrote: > > > > Hello, I was looking at The Inroyable a few months ago. I think they were > Royalist. Some wore their hair cut very ragged and wore a red ribbon around > the neck. Rather macabre as this was symbolic of the victims of the > guillotine. > > regards > Joy I am certain they were Republicans, they wore cockades on their hats as well. Sheesh, but what do I know *L* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 16:53:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20671 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:53:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Kt43Y002392; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Kt1vF028687; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92KswvF028656 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:54:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3D00JIFGRLV2@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:54:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred In-reply-to: X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Subject: [h-cost] Great Art site Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:54:52 -0400 Status: RO Looking for articles on gardening, i came across this gem: http://www.bergerfoundation.ch/ Here's what they have to say: T he principal purpose of World Art Treasures is to promulgate the discovery and love of art. Thanks to the 100,000 slides belonging to the Jacques-Edouard Berger Foundation, all of them devoted to art, and including the main civilizations, such as Egypt, China, Japan, India, Europe, its purpose is to offer a different approach to art through Internet. Taking advantage of the specificity of a multidimensional and multilevel network, it is an attempt to shed new light on art and a new way of contemplating it. i did a look-see and found a lovely painting done in the late 1500 with details and close-ups that would make re-creating the dresses easy. You could even identify the beads around the neck as glass (transparent) as opposed to pearls but only in the close-ups. They have art from every period that I've seen represented on this list and a few that aren't. Rhianwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 17:34:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20926 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:34:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92LZ63Y005988; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:35:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92LZ4vF021750; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92LY4vF021092 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021002213359.HQQL1315.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:33:59 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Great Art site Message-ID: <000001c26a1b$8c66e510$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:56:41 -0400 Status: RO Whoa! This site even lets you make puzzles from the art! Too cool! Thanks for sending this, it's wonderful. Pax, Linda -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: [h-cost] Great Art site http://www.bergerfoundation.ch/ Here's what they have to say: The principal purpose of World Art Treasures is to promulgate the discovery and love of art. Thanks to the 100,000 slides belonging to the Jacques-Edouard Berger Foundation, all of them devoted to art, and including the main civilizations, such as Egypt, China, Japan, India, Europe, its purpose is to offer a different approach to art through Internet. Taking advantage of the specificity of a multidimensional and multilevel network, it is an attempt to shed new light on art and a new way of contemplating it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 19:19:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21478 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:19:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92NK73Y014290; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:20:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92NK0vF015665; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92NJ7vF015369 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.105] (as3-4-119.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.105]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g92NJ5N16474 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D9B25B7.1020407@comcast.net> References: <20021002095700.24370.34883.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3D9B25B7.1020407@comcast.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:14:07 -0700 Status: RO At 12:58 PM -0400 10/2/02, Liz / Cozit wrote: >If your only desire is for specs for reading, yeah, maybe.... But, >personally I find his webpage insulting to say the least (if you >read his blurb about how awful and jarring it is to *have* to look >at those of us with glasses). And the only possible pair for use >other than sedate activities (and I can't see any of them being >practical for sewing either) not only doesn't look vaguely "period" >but since they appear to tie to your face, which would put the glass >right by your eyes, look like a funny looking mask with plastic >circles, etc... his attempt at "selling" his product in that blurb >is that much more insulting. I agree that his "sales pitch" needs a bit of work in order to attract rather than repel. He makes a good case for why _he_ wants everyone around him to be wearing his product, but he doesn't really address the question of why _they_ should want to be wearing his product. Maybe he needs to farm out the writing of his ad copy. On the other hand, I recognized most of the styles listed on the page, and he does appear to be making very close reproductions (within certain materials limitations) of artifacts that either survive or are represented in detail in artwork. Most late-medieval and Renaissance spectacles _do_ "look like a funny looking mask with circles". At the very most, the look like a pair of pince-nez designed by a carpenter. If one's goal is to wear spectacles appropriate to that era, there isn't much point in complaining that they look ugly by modern standards and aren't designed for lively activities. They are, and they weren't. I tried making my own late-medieval glasses once, but made the mistake of ordering lenses that were a bit too large to balance well. They _worked_, but I pretty much had to hold them in place while using them. (I had a hard enough time convincing the optometrist that, yes, I wanted an extra pair of lenses _without_ a frame, and, no, the antique glasses frames you can find in antique shops aren't _quite_ old enough to be medieval styles.) I may try it again at some point, although now I've got the added complication of wearing progressive bifocals, so getting the lenses aligned properly would be trickier. Having well-made, historically-accurate frames available so I don't have to fumble around making my own would be a definite plus. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 19:38:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21570 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:38:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Nd83Y015466; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:39:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Nd0vF022806; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92NcpvF022749 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:38:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08897 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:42:59 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:42:59 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Since most of the people responding on this thread are female, I am wondering: Is there any documentation (visual or written) of women wearing glasses in the Middle Ages or Renaissance? All the images I can think of show clerics or scholars or the like -- all male. If women didn't wear glasses, I wonder if this reflects a combination of vanity, expense, and the idea that only people in certain specialized occupations (e.g. that involve reading or close work) would need them. Does anyone know when women would have begun wearing glasses as routinely as men? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 19:55:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21678 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:55:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Nv23Y016395; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92Nv1vF028505; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92NuXvF028349 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:56:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qt5lr.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.150.187] helo=meza.wizardsoftware.org) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17wtLv-0006hh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:56:28 -0400 From: jlkelley X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Personal Organization: slight X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <11137849073.20021002185346@ix.netcom.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Christening bonnet pattern? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jlkelley List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:53:46 -0500 Status: RO Sorry, I am way behind on my mail but just read your post. I normally lurk but I could not resist this. Try http://www.marthapullen.com/ look under books catagory I have a lot of her books/pattterns and I think they are easy and understandable, though I have not accually made any of her stuff yet, not enought time. She also has some of the most dreamy hearloom clothing for children and also some for women. I know that she has christening bonnet patterns in some of her books Christening Gown Ensemble Grandmother's Hope Chest (I have this one and it is beautiful) The Princess Collection Elegant Sewing for Baby Anna Garrin's Christening Gown She also has really adorable childrens clothing patterns. Also, I recieve her magizine and it is full color has about 6 main dress projects and other stuff - it is very nice. It has a center pull out with normally one full pattern and embroidery designs. I promice I don't work for her just enchanted with her heirloom work. Hope this helps, Jonica Kelley (returns to lurking) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 20:26:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21793 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:26:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g930S13Y018072; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g930S0vF008804; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g930RwvF008791 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:27:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.105] (as3-4-119.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.105]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g930RvN15438 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20021002180621.92445.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021002180621.92445.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:41:57 -0700 Status: RO At 7:06 PM +0100 10/2/02, N Kipar wrote: >I'm sorry, but maybe I can help your anger and make it a bit better, you >COMPLETELY misunderstood the chap. I am not affiliated but feel it >is unfair to >him to not try and put what he said in perspective,and to not keep prospective >customers from the site. He did not say a word about people with glasses are >bad to look at on his main page, he talked about inauthentic glasses, and that I don't know about Elizabeth, but the parts of the web site that struck me as "maybe not the best salesmanship" were passages like: "Yet, to be frank, we all have to look at you. And in terms of your overall image, and how "transported in time" we're made to feel when we see you -- well, no offense, but sneakers or even modern jeans wouldn't be as disruptive as looking into your eyes through those Foster Grants." It's an absolutely true statement -- no question there -- but it frames the product (if you'll excuse the pun) in terms of "buy my product for _my_ sake -- because I have to look at you -- rather than for _your_ sake (because you want to look good)". He looks like he's go a great product (or will once the whole line is available), and it would be a shame if it failed to succeed because his sales pitch rubs people the wrong way. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 21:03:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22022 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:03:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g931563Y020167; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93151vF020148; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9314svF020107 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0H3D000A6SA3G4@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:03:39 -1000 (HST) From: annora Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs In-reply-to: To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:04:31 -1000 (HST) Status: RO > Since most of the people responding on this thread are female, I am > wondering: Is there any documentation (visual or written) of women wearing > glasses in the Middle Ages or Renaissance? All the images I can think of > show clerics or scholars or the like -- all male. The title page of Johan Siebmacher's Schon Neues Modelbuch (1597) has a picture of a woman wearing nose spectacles. She's presumably wearing them to help her see the needlework she's doing. That's the only one I can recall ever seeing. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 21:17:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22105 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:17:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g931J23Y020840; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g931J1vF024550; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g931IrvF024497 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:18:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p19-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.147] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17wudg-0006ws-00; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 13:18:52 +1200 Message-ID: <006b01c26a7a$d32273c0$93cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:18:45 +1200 Status: RO > Does anyone know when women would have begun wearing glasses as routinely > as men? While it's right out of period (middle ages-ren) I know that in Victorian (England anyway.. and her colonies I suspect) women wearing glasses was still looked on as a personality issue, not a need... only stong minded feamles who read need to wear... actually I think they were talking about dark glasses. I read that recently again so it may have been in Alison Gernshiem's book... And there is a Punch cartoon of a woman in severe dress with glasses. I wonder if the same feeling that it was a negative sign of who the woman was before this era? Probably for differening reasons of course. Like never make passes at girls who wear glasses after this era... I do have a scan of a photo from the very late 19thC of a woman in round Lennonesque dark glasses for a family portrait. It's from the book In True Colonial Fashion about New Zealand fashion. I hope this works, I just uploaded it to a liquid2k account... This is a really bad service btw for uploading.. you have to use their online manager which often doesn't actually work... but you can direct link;) OK, so it's not working at all.. I'll add it to my ihug account... http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/1890sglassesitcf.JPG michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 22:04:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22408 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:04:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g932623Y023182; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93260vF007541; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9325mvF007478 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234948pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.182.133]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3D00JMIV5IIB@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 22:05:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3D9BA5F4.8070707@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 References: <20021003011900.24544.13665.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: the renspecs site Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 22:05:40 -0400 Status: RO I don't always get it right when trying to explain what I mean either :-) As Heather (I think) pointed out, the thing in the sales pitch that is objectionable was that he expresses the desire that we buy his product so that he (and others) don't have to look at us wearing glasses, no matter how "good" the rest of the outfit is (personally, I have a harder time with the sneakers thing than round or oval wire rim glasses). Yes, most of the spectacles resemble some I've seen pictures of... but there's at least one that doesn't seem "right" to me... besides the leather mask one. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that all of them were a mask-like look. It's just the leather one on the right that is just "wrong" (at least IMHO... and I don't see how it would work right either, since the lenses appear to be located such that they'd end up getting skin oils on them easily, and rub against eyelashes at the least in a noticable way.) The other thing that bothered me about the whole sales pitch is that he is apparently unaware that the glasses he shows are completely impractical for anyone who is doing anything beyond sitting and watching/reading/writing. Leaning over even to stitch, I'd be very likely to lose anything resembling those prop on nose glasses. In period they were not meant to be used for activewear either. I doubt (or at least hope) that he has a comprehension that an inability to see properly is just as handicapping as many other physical handicaps... we're just fortunate that in this modern age, it's one that can be mostly overcome by the technology available at a reasonable price. If I knock my glasses off the table when I'm not wearing them (and I do occasionally read or stitch for short periods without them still), I often can *not* find them without assistance, or much raking of the ground with my hand. Wearing something that sat on my nose, even with the fairly thick frames would be begging for trouble. (Things need to be about a foot from my nose to be in focus... on a good day maybe I can manage an extra inch or two....) Sigh... most folks just beg glasses wearers to wear contacts... which is out for me as well... No offense meant... just very rubbed the wrong way by his sales pitch. To be honest, I'd be unlikely to buy any of those glasses for the reasons I say above, beyond that bit of irritation that was not so graciously put. -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 22:21:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22472 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:21:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g932M33Y023889; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g932M1vF011859; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g932LWvF011737 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:21:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phil2175.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.175]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g932LSVn020896 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:21:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3D9BA703.50E15290@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant References: <20021002095700.24370.34883.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3D9B25B7.1020407@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 22:10:12 -0400 Status: RO Hi. This happens to be one of my areas of interest. I know it is sad that the gentleman in question seems to need to "market" his product. There are only two of his products that I would feel comfortable about supporting, historically. These would be the bone frames (Trig Lane style) and the brass frames. As I have noted before, these styles, although historically correct for the "Renaissance" period, are not for corrective optometry as we know it now. For costume purposes, these items fill a need. Since vision correction is not the same today as it was 350+ years ago, the idea of trying to sell to the myopic/hyperopic/presbyopic community is not the same. It would be nice to see period frames, but if you see them in such frequency as are seen nowadays (both in modern context and at reenactments), you would have a wrong idea of vision correction as it was accomplished years back. I have seen American Civil War events that had a 40% attendance of reenactors with glasses. I seriously doubt that real combatants at that time were that poorly visioned, and at that great a volume. Sorry that the page bugs you, but don't forget, the Web is, for all of our wishes, not the perfect resource that we would wish. I don't think he is trying to preach, but merely trying to change perceptions. This is good, but in a limited way. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 22:32:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22512 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g932Y13Y024486; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g932Y0vF015313; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f133.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g932XWvF015155 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:33:27 -0700 Received: from 65.70.196.245 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 02:33:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.70.196.245] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2002 02:33:27.0347 (UTC) FILETIME=[40FF6830:01C26A85] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 02:33:27 +0000 Status: RO I can't remember if he mentions clothes specifically, but Leon Batista Alberti did complain about children going to "Hell in a Handbasket" in some of his books. (He's from Renaissance Florence.) Mary/Katerine >I friend was lamenting yesterday on the styles of teenagers now-a-days. I >mentioned that this has been going on for centuries as I remember reading a >letter from a dad complaining about his childs method of dress from, I >think, the 14th or 15th century. > >Does anyone on this list know of that letter, have a copy of it or can >point me to where it might be published? > >Are there similar letters from other centuries? Somehow I don't think this >was just a modern and Medieval thing. > >Rhianwen >_______________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 23:05:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22751 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:05:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g933713Y026203; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93370vF024100; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9336qvF024041 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.133.203]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20021003030646.ENJB310.out006.verizon.net@default> for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:06:46 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20021003030420.0072ded0@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 23:04:20 -0400 Status: RO At 10:10 PM 10/2/02 -0400, you wrote: >Hi. This happens to be one of my areas of interest. I know it is sad that the >gentleman in question seems to need to "market" his product. There are only two >of his products that I would feel comfortable about supporting, historically. >These would be the bone frames (Trig Lane style) and the brass frames. As I >have noted before, these styles, although historically correct for the >"Renaissance" period, are not for corrective optometry as we know it now. For >costume purposes, these items fill a need. Since vision correction is not the >same today as it was 350+ years ago, the idea of trying to sell to the >myopic/hyperopic/presbyopic community is not the same. It would be nice to see >period frames, but if you see them in such frequency as are seen nowadays (both >in modern context and at reenactments), you would have a wrong idea of vision >correction as it was accomplished years back. I have seen American Civil War >events that had a 40% attendance of reenactors with glasses. I seriously doubt >that real combatants at that time were that poorly visioned, and at that great >a volume. Sorry that the page bugs you, but don't forget, the Web is, for all >of our wishes, not the perfect resource that we would wish. I don't think he is >trying to preach, but merely trying to change perceptions. This is good, but in >a limited way. Mike T. > Aren't most people who sell eyeglasses trying to change perceptions? I do have an opinion on this subject, but I am going to keep it to myself. Nicole had tried to stop this from becoming a should wear, shouldn't wear debate as we have had those in the past on this very subject. All that is acheived is anger and flames. This list has a diverse membership with very differing opinions on even what is meant by HISTORIC COSTUMING, let alone the levels of required authenticity. It is important to remember that here. Our venues and uses of Historic costuming is just as varied, and that does affect, and should affect the required authenticity. (I feel somewhat hypocritical posting that here, when I just complained about Hollywood's authenticity on another list). I will give my opinion on the add though ;) ! I did not find it offensive (maybe I would if I wore glasses) but I did find it poor salesmanship (and I was a salesman for years before I was blessed with my current employment). Like many have said, it stressed far to much the affect on others, rather than on the wearer. He even made the suggestion at the bottom that people should buy these for others! When I am working I try to maintain authenticity for other people. That is because I am tasked with teaching. When I am playing I try to be authentic for myself. The same pitch could have, and should have been made in that mode. Just a few comments from a semi-lurker, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 2 23:35:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23294 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:35:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g933b33Y027789; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g933b1vF003060; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g933ahvF002957 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id UAA04631 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:57:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200210030357.UAA04631@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The generation gap in fashion Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Heather Jones wrote: > If there _isn't_ a popular book out there with historic quotations of > the 'perennial lament' genre, there certainly _ought_ to be. I know > one can find Roman-empire-era quotations along the lines of "taxes > are outrageous, young people don't respect their elders, and the > world is generally going to pot". My favorite is a translation of some of the graffiti from Hadrian's Wall. "Oh Wall, it is a miracle you do not collapse under the weight of all the stupid things people have written here." Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 01:19:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23801 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 01:19:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g935L23Y002367; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g935L1vF029732; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g935KLvF029568 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a232.in-tch.com [66.62.107.32]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9355OH21869 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:05:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D9BD50E.E5997EAF@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Question about source for real silk velvet Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 23:26:38 -0600 Status: RO I'm looking to acquire a small amount (maybe the equivalent of a "fat quarter," or, roughly, 18"x22") of real silk velvet, in black (it *does* need to be black...it's for a heraldic thing). I'm really *not* interested in that weird so-called silk velvet that's actually silk-background-but-rayon-pile, as it just looks rayon-y to me, and this is for a medieval-style project (I want to make a seal bag). Does anybody know of a source for 100% silk velvet in black? Thanks, Sue (now returning you to your regularly-scheduled evenings/mornings) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 01:21:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23810 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 01:21:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g935N13Y002425; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g935N0vF000342; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g935L8vF029760 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021003052107.98767.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:21:07 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:21:07 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > Since most of the people responding on this thread > are female, I am > wondering: Is there any documentation (visual or > written) of women wearing > glasses in the Middle Ages or Renaissance? In "Sofonisba Anguissola: The First Great Woman Artist of the Renaissance" by Ilya Sandra Perlingieri, (Rizzoli, NY) on page 45, there is a monochrome plate of a drawing by Anguissola circa 1545, entitled "Self portrait with old woman", in which the "old woman" wears spectacles on her nose - the type that perch precariously on the nose, as seen in the renspecs web site. Bella All the > images I can think of > show clerics or scholars or the like -- all male. If > women didn't wear > glasses, I wonder if this reflects a combination of > vanity, expense, and > the idea that only people in certain specialized > occupations (e.g. that > involve reading or close work) would need them. > > Does anyone know when women would have begun wearing > glasses as routinely > as men? http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 01:23:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23819 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 01:23:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g935O13Y002460; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g935O1vF000592; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g935NCvF000388 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:23:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021003052311.55006.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:23:11 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:23:11 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- annora wrote: > The title page of Johan Siebmacher's Schon Neues > Modelbuch (1597) > has a picture of a woman wearing nose spectacles. > She's presumably > wearing them to help her see the needlework she's > doing. That's the only > one I can recall ever seeing. Do you happen to know the artist or nationality of the artist by any chance? I'd love to see this portrait. Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 04:13:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17288 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 04:13:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g938F53Y007855; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 02:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g938F2vF005959; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 02:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g938E5vF005748 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 02:14:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g938FtB08147.; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:15:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:14:00 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: the renspecs site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g938E5vF005748 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:13:34 +0100 Status: RO Elisabeth wrote: >The other thing that bothered me about the whole sales pitch is that he >is apparently unaware that the glasses he shows are completely >impractical for anyone who is doing anything beyond sitting and >watching/reading/writing. Leaning over even to stitch, I'd be very >likely to lose anything resembling those prop on nose glasses. In >period they were not meant to be used for activewear either. A wheelwright in our living history group wears specs like that, with ear loops, to work in, apparently without problems. I wear contact lenses for my very short sight. I now use reading glasses, but can still manage without for LH purposes, though I think I may have to get some period ones soon. Isn't there a Rembrandt portrait of an old lady reading with glasses? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 05:07:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06781 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 05:07:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g939963Y009751; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 03:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93991vF016392; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 03:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93982vF016144 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 03:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3E002KNEPDIV@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 02:08:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: machine quilted Regency (was Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans In-reply-to: <7c.2eef8018.2acc56ca@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021003020342.0417d100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 02:07:59 -0700 Status: RO AnnBWass@aol.com writes, in a message sent 10:03 AM 10/2/02 -0400: >In a message dated 10/1/2002 4:46:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >kayta@frys.com writes: > > >>The lining is machine quilted to a thin wool interlining with shocking pink >> >thread. The lapels, cuffs and pocket flaps are another (fifth) shade of >> >green and are also machine quilted in shocking pink! > > >The description of the outer fabric, the brown print, sounds very like >other garments I have seen from the 2nd quarter of the 19th century, which >would make machine quilting possible. I'd believe machine quilting by then. But I thought banyans were out by then, and a more bathrobe-like garment has replaced them. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 08:19:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08117 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:19:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93CKQ3Y015461; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93CJ0vF023988; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93CIQvF023852 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.17.2f5151c4 (4410) for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:18:16 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <17.2f5151c4.2acd8f88@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_17.2f5151c4.2acd8f88_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10638 Subject: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:18:16 EDT Status: RO --part1_17.2f5151c4.2acd8f88_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I feel compelled to respond to this post as I know the gentleman involved. He is indeed a gentleman, and I'm sure did not mean to offend anyone. I have forwarded the postings as I did feel that there were some valid suggestions for ways he might better sell his product. As someone who saw the specs at Pennsic, I was impressed by them and have been considering getting a pair. My concern has been, as Robin has already asked, is how period they are for women. Nancy Stengel Ulmer --part1_17.2f5151c4.2acd8f88_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I feel compelled to respond to this post as I know the gentleman involved.  He is indeed a gentleman, and I'm sure did not mean to offend anyone.  I have forwarded the postings as I did feel that there were some valid suggestions for ways he might better sell his product.  As someone who saw the specs at Pennsic, I was impressed by them and have been considering getting a pair.  My concern has been, as Robin has already asked, is how period they are for women.

Nancy Stengel Ulmer --part1_17.2f5151c4.2acd8f88_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 08:43:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08223 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:43:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Cj23Y016232; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Cj1vF029733; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93CiYvF029622 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:44:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.71.26a47dab (657) for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:44:16 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <71.26a47dab.2acd959f@aol.com> Subject: Re: machine quilted Regency (was Re: [h-cost] RE: Banyans To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_71.26a47dab.2acd959f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:44:15 EDT Status: RO --part1_71.26a47dab.2acd959f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/3/2002 5:10:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > But I thought banyans were out by > then, and a more bathrobe-like garment has replaced them. > > > I think what we have here is a question of terminology. I'm sure you're right, and this garment was not called a banyan by then. Someone more up on this particular period will know what it was called. Ann Wass --part1_71.26a47dab.2acd959f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/3/2002 5:10:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes:


But I thought banyans were out by
then, and a more bathrobe-like garment has replaced them.




I think what we have here is a question of terminology.  I'm sure you're right, and this garment was not called a banyan by then.  Someone more up on this particular period will know what it was called. 
Ann Wass --part1_71.26a47dab.2acd959f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 10:13:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08846 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:13:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93EC43Y020893; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93EC1vF025378; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93EBhvF025263 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:11:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p40.directcon.net [206.170.184.139]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g93EBUuk010363; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 07:11:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021003071426.008181b0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:14:26 -0700 Status: RO At 06:42 PM 10/02/2002 -0500, Robin Netherton wrote: > >Since most of the people responding on this thread are female, I am >wondering: Is there any documentation (visual or written) of women wearing >glasses in the Middle Ages or Renaissance? I've seen one Renaissance image, in a woodcut, of a woman embroidering and wearing a pair of glasses that look like goggles. I think it was in that fancy cofee table book that came out a few years back..it might have been called "The Embroiderer's Story". Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 10:28:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08949 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:28:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93EU23Y022283; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:30:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93EU1vF002896; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93ETnvF002787 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:29:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.184] (pm5-184.eos.net [205.133.149.184]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21392 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:29:39 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021003011900.24544.13665.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] renspecs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:27:57 -0400 Status: RO I checked out the "controversial" site and I didn't find it at all offensive. A little brusque, perhaps, but not offensive. In fact, I may order some of the glasses! But I do want to know how likely it is that prescription makers can actually fit them. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 10:59:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09205 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:59:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93F143Y024520; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:01:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93F13vF016319; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93F0uvF016241 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marthakelly (24-90-81-201.nyc.rr.com [24.90.81.201]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g93F4RaL013947 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Banyan Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:00:22 -0300 Status: RO In Norah Waugh's "The Cut of Men's Clothes" - (p. 94 in my copy) under Eighteenth-century Tailoring, figure 6. L'Art du Tailleur, Figures II and III - two styles of Robe de Chambre. This is not literally a "banyan" which is basically T-shaped and not very full. But I think it's a more appealing garment, serving the same purpose. I suspect "banyan" was sometimes used as an all-encompassing term for "dressing gown." I once used the one from "Cut of Women's" for Salieri in Amadeus, as it "swoops" very well and is great for hiding quick changes. PS Ann, I have that wonderful catalogue from the Brooklyn Museum, too. Don't you wish they still had shows. Oh, the treasure that are sitting there in storage!! Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 12:00:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09477 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:00:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93G1D3Y029324; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93FwSvF015643; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:58:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93FvgvF015131 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.162.14fa5526 (24895) for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:57:33 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <162.14fa5526.2acdc2ed@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Banyan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_162.14fa5526.2acdc2ed_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:57:33 EDT Status: RO --part1_162.14fa5526.2acdc2ed_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/3/2002 11:03:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marthakelly@nyc.rr.com writes: > Ann, I have that wonderful catalogue from the Brooklyn Museum, too. > Don't you wish they still had shows. Oh, the treasure that are sitting > there in storage!! > > Yes, I know--so frustrating! Ann --part1_162.14fa5526.2acdc2ed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/3/2002 11:03:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marthakelly@nyc.rr.com writes:


Ann, I have that wonderful catalogue from the Brooklyn Museum, too.
Don't you wish they still had shows.  Oh, the treasure that are sitting
there in storage!!



Yes, I know--so frustrating!
Ann --part1_162.14fa5526.2acdc2ed_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 14:25:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14278 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:25:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93IOn3Y012371; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:24:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93IM1cf005501; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93ILecf005288 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g93Gv1ae019999 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:57:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant In-Reply-To: <006b01c26a7a$d32273c0$93cfadcb@michaela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO We had a discussion about wearing spectacles on the 18thCWoman list. Apparently not as many women as men are shown wearing spectacles; but then, not as many people are shown wearing them as actually owned them in real life. It's likely that people felt that they were unflattering, and left them off for their portraits. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 14:31:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14296 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:31:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93ISG3Y012646; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93IPYcf007407; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:25:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93ILgcf005313 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g93GoYae019116 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:50:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well, a friend of mine sent me a mid-17th c. genre art painting (Steen, maybe?) of a peddler selling spectacles; the customer is a middle-aged woman. Something else to consider is that in this period, most spectacles were to correct for farsightedness -- in other words, those of us who are myopic would be out of luck. So we'd be stumbling around bumping into people and things ;) Most/all of the pictures I can recall off hand of men wearing spectacles from the 17th c. or earlier show them wearing them for reading, or seeing up close; they most likely wouldn't have worn them for other activities, I'd think. Personally, I wear my antique early 19th c. (oval) frames for reenacting earlier periods, too -- or else wear my contacts, which I realize isn't an option for everyone. I know that the frames are not absolutely 100% authentic for the earlier periods, but I don't think most tourists are going to stop to think twice about it; whereas if I were wearing my modern glasses, they would probably notice. -- Mara On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Robin Netherton wrote: > > Since most of the people responding on this thread are female, I am > wondering: Is there any documentation (visual or written) of women wearing > glasses in the Middle Ages or Renaissance? All the images I can think of > show clerics or scholars or the like -- all male. If women didn't wear > glasses, I wonder if this reflects a combination of vanity, expense, and > the idea that only people in certain specialized occupations (e.g. that > involve reading or close work) would need them. > > Does anyone know when women would have begun wearing glasses as routinely > as men? > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 15:32:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14507 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:32:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93JUq3Y017928; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93JS1Tp011149; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93JRuTp011111 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17xBdQ-000EUf-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 20:27:49 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant References: <006b01c26a7a$d32273c0$93cfadcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:26:07 +0100 Status: RO This brought immediately into my head that classic pose of a woman sitting by a table, 3/4 front, with a letter in her hand - but she's always looking out at the painter, never actually reading it. Can't you just imagine her turning back and fishing her specs out of the pocket she has hanging down the side away from us? Jean Kevin & Mara Riley wrote >We had a discussion about wearing spectacles on the 18thCWoman list. >Apparently not as many women as men are shown wearing spectacles; but >then, not as many people are shown wearing them as actually owned them in >real life. It's likely that people felt that they were unflattering, and >left them off for their portraits. > >-- Mara > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 16:35:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15014 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:35:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Ka73Y023700; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Ka0Tp018664; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f107.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93KYxTp018087; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:34:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:34:54 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 20:34:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: f-costume@indra.com Cc: basiclifeskills@hotmail.com, gastonsfreakangel@hotmail.com, h-costume@indra.com, missrhonda@prodigy.net, soteros@toledotel.com, sajah2000@yahoo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2002 20:34:54.0240 (UTC) FILETIME=[54998A00:01C26B1C] Subject: [h-cost] costume update Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 13:34:53 -0700 Status: RO I'm so jazzed!!! The second page of my "Spiroc Saga" is up and running. If you missed the first page it is at http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi/spiroc.html and now... page 2 http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi/spiroc2.html Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 16:56:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15185 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:56:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Kw43Y025564; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Kw0Tp000270; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Kv4Tp029654 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3F00E85BJ2IH@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 13:57:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021003134333.00d0c100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Costume College - when? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 13:56:58 -0700 Status: RO Did I just miss Costume College this year? When is it next year? The http://www.costumecollege.org/ website was particularly unhelpful on these two points. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 17:18:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15221 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:18:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93LK43Y027838; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93LK0Tp012387; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g93LJMTp012020 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 27395 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2002 21:19:21 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-108.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.166.66.108) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 2002 21:19:21 -0000 Message-ID: <004c01c26b21$87a92fe0$6c42a6d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: <006b01c26a7a$d32273c0$93cfadcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:12:05 -0400 Status: RO After all, if you looked at pictures in fashion magazines or of celeberties you would conclude that very few people in this century wore anything besides cool-looking sunglasses. And the women in my family always take their glasses off when someone is taking photographs. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 18:43:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15520 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:43:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Mj73Y004811; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Mj1Tp001139; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93MicTp000858 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA06170 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:46:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3D9CC918.82F2DFD4@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College - when? References: <4.3.1.2.20021003134333.00d0c100@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:47:53 -0700 Status: RO To Carolyn- Yes, CC was either the 2nd or 3rd weekend of July this year. Come and gone like a certain Republican President's compassion!! Who knows when next year, I think they're still sorting through the remains of the recent one. Are you coming to PEERS this Saturday??? Talk later, Theresa Eacker Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > Did I just miss Costume College this year? When is it next year? The > http://www.costumecollege.org/ website was particularly unhelpful on these > two points. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 18:50:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15546 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:50:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Mq33Y005459; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Mq1Tp004799; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93MpuTp004745 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-15-23.o1.jps.net ([216.119.15.23] helo=S0026661921) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17xEp0-0005lf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:51:55 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c26b2f$7a897960$170f77d8@S0026661921> From: "LLB" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C26AF4.CD58D270" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery terms Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:51:56 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C26AF4.CD58D270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A picture of an 18th century mantua is described: coloured silk twist = and chenille thread, tamboured in a meandering pattern of flowers and = leaves decorate the fabric...Is tamboured the same as couching? Does = anyone know if chenille thread is available and where? Thanks Linda (picture is in Historical Fashion in Detail by Hart & North pg 92. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C26AF4.CD58D270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A picture of an 18th century mantua is = described:=20 coloured silk twist and chenille thread, tamboured in a meandering = pattern of=20 flowers and leaves decorate the fabric...Is tamboured the same as = couching? Does=20 anyone know if chenille thread is available and where? = Thanks
 
Linda
 
(picture is in Historical Fashion in = Detail=20 by Hart & North pg 92.
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C26AF4.CD58D270-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 19:53:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15704 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:53:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Ns53Y010401; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:54:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Ns0Tp000545; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g93Nr4Tp000207 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.103]) by dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 1254790 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:52:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Some FOs! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:52:56 -0400 Status: RO I am finally able to announce actual Finished Objects! Five of them, in fact- 4 of the "Dread Herjolfernes", and one apron dress to go over 2 of the former. And the day before they're needed, too! I made 2 Herjolfernes-based things each for my husband and me. His are about knee-length and lack the center inset panel- he really didn't need or want the extra fullness, since this is a working weekend (an SCA metalsmithing event). Mine are a short ankle-length and have the center inset. We each have a green one and a heavier brown one, with different trim- his brown has dark green, and his dark green has navy and bright green; my brown has brick red and my green has grey. I'm planning to add some narrow purple trim to my green at some point, though- I've been using the green-white-and-purple color combination every now and again, since those are the (very OOP) suffragist colors and so a bit of a personal joke OOP. The fabrics are a decent cotton twill. The apron dress is a fancy--weave denim, somewhat shorter than my dresses. I like making up the Herjolfernes- apart from the trim, it takes maybe an hour or 2. Of course, the trim can add an hour or more, and is really necessary to finish the sleeves and neck hole.... Now I need to make some more brooches, both to use on my dresses and as samples for the brooch class I'm teaching... -Amanda event novice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 20:37:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15780 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:37:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g940dN3Y014179; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:39:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g940dATp017617; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g940cITp017335 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:38:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004003818.21167.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:38:18 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] 3D Historical Costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:38:18 +1000 (EST) Status: RO Greetings to the list, I haven't been on this list long, and don't post all that often, so forgive me if what I'm about to tell you about you all already know about. :) The State Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg, has a "Virtual Viewings" feature that I just discovered last night. You can choose between "Virtual Excursions", "Virtual Exhibitions" and, and most exciting one, "Gallery of 3-D Images". When you click on that one you have several items or groups of items from the museum's collection to choose from to view in 3-D. The one of relevance to us here is of course costume related - the "Dresses by Lamanova", Lamanova being "one of the most talented couturiers of the turn of the 20th century. In 1885, when she was barely 24 years old, she opened her own atelier in Moscow." There are 8 dresses to look at - from a broadcloth visiting dress, to several evening dresses, and a couple of ball gowns thrown in for good measure. On each you can view the gown as it slowly rotates in front of you, and for each dress there are two or more views available, so you can see a general view, or a close up of the embroidery, or the collar, or a sleeve, etc. Enjoy! :) Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 3 21:37:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15905 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:37:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g941cH3Y017022; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:38:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g941c0Tp004876; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g941bkTp004771 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:37:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021004013740.FFMN9928.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com> for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:37:40 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021003182140.00a1c600@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] costume college Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 18:29:00 -0700 Status: RO costume college was indeed the third weekend in July. It was a lot of fun this year and I learned a lot. For instance, it is probably best not to go to an event like that with a half finished costume and expect to finish it for Saturday night. While I managed to finish a medieval costume for Saturday, I did not finish my Victorian bodice for Sunday. and, I spent too much time in my room sewing. I took one class where we wrote poetry about each others outfits, that was a little weird, but fabric landscaping was unexpectedly fabulous. If you do Elizabethan, Cheryl Looney was a really good teacher. I have gotten a lot out of it both years that I have gone. Maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:08:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32544 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:08:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g943953Y021779; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94390cQ001089; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9437wcQ000801 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17xIon-00032A-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 20:07:58 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Organization: PII Message-ID: <000c01c26b54$03d4d560$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <000b01c26b4d$e8209b20$6501a8c0@Home> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Dressing Pins and impressive commercial costume site Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:13:28 -0700 Status: RO While trying to find a picture of the "Dreaded Herjolfernes" thing, I came across this site. http://www.historicenterprises.com/ I was thrilled to find dressing pins and was also impressed with their work. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:09:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32549 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:09:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94B443Y008474; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 05:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94B41cQ015292; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 05:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94B3BcQ015147 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 05:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.46.2ecc5290 (4552) for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 07:03:02 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <46.2ecc5290.2acecf66@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidery terms To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_46.2ecc5290.2acecf66_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10034 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 07:03:02 EDT Status: RO --part1_46.2ecc5290.2acecf66_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/3/02 6:54:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sasha7@ix.netcom.com writes: > Is tamboured the same as couching? Does anyone know if chenille thread is > available and where? Thanks Tambour work is done with a special hook and makes little chain stitches. I think tambour hooks are still available, and I know chenille thread is. Try Hedgehog Handworks. Ann Wass --part1_46.2ecc5290.2acecf66_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/3/02 6:54:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sasha7@ix.netcom.com writes:


Is tamboured the same as couching? Does anyone know if chenille thread is available and where? Thanks


Tambour work is done with a special hook and makes little chain stitches.  I think tambour hooks are still available, and I know chenille thread is.  Try Hedgehog Handworks.
Ann Wass --part1_46.2ecc5290.2acecf66_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:11:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32558 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:11:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942VT3Y019981; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:31:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942VCcQ020184; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:31:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g942UhcQ020053 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004023043.75923.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:30:43 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] 3D Historical Costume To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000a01c26b4d$bf8f7960$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:30:43 +1000 (EST) Status: RO Yes, that's what I thought of it too, and you're welcome! :) Bella --- Saragrace knauf wrote: > Thanks! Very cool! http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:11:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32561 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:11:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942T83Y019858; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:29:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942T0cQ019593; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g942SwcQ019579 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:28:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004022858.86156.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:28:58 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:28:58 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- annora wrote: > > > The title page of Johan Siebmacher's Schon > Neues > > > Modelbuch (1597) > > > > Do you happen to know the artist or nationality of > the > > artist by any chance? I'd love to see this > portrait. > > Sorry, I don't know the artist but the original > book is German. > I don't have the actual book, but a copy of the > woodcut appears in The > Embroiderer's Story by Thomasina Beck. > > --annora Thank you Annora. :) Does anyone have this book, and would any of you who do be willing to scan and email me the image please? Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:11:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32564 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:11:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942P43Y019541; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942P0cQ018089; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942OBcQ017835 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17xI8Q-0004Ea-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:24:11 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Some FOs! Organization: PII Message-ID: <000b01c26b4d$e8209b20$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:29:44 -0700 Status: RO Pictures!!! We want pictures~~ :} **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of sustre@pixelations.com **Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:53 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: [h-cost] Some FOs! ** ** **I am finally able to announce actual Finished Objects! Five of them, **in fact- 4 of the "Dread Herjolfernes", and one apron dress to go **over 2 of the former. And the day before they're needed, too! ** **I made 2 Herjolfernes-based things each for my husband and me. His **are about knee-length and lack the center inset panel- he really **didn't need or want the extra fullness, since this is a working **weekend (an SCA metalsmithing event). Mine are a short ankle-length **and have the center inset. We each have a green one and a heavier **brown one, with different trim- his brown has dark green, and his **dark green has navy and bright green; my brown has brick red and my **green has grey. I'm planning to add some narrow purple trim to my **green at some point, though- I've been using the **green-white-and-purple color combination every now and again, since **those are the (very OOP) suffragist colors and so a bit of a personal **joke OOP. The fabrics are a decent cotton twill. The apron dress is a **fancy--weave denim, somewhat shorter than my dresses. ** **I like making up the Herjolfernes- apart from the trim, it takes **maybe an hour or 2. Of course, the trim can add an hour or more, and **is really necessary to finish the sleeves and neck hole.... ** **Now I need to make some more brooches, both to use on my dresses and **as samples for the brooch class I'm teaching... ** **-Amanda **event novice **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:11:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32567 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:11:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942On3Y019495; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:24:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942O0cQ017781; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g942N3cQ017564 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=laptop) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17xI7K-0002nT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:23:02 -0700 From: "Saragrace knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] 3D Historical Costume Organization: PII Message-ID: <000a01c26b4d$bf8f7960$6501a8c0@Home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <20021004003818.21167.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:28:37 -0700 Status: RO Thanks! Very cool! **-----Original Message----- **From: h-costume-admin@indra.com **[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bella **Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:38 PM **To: h-costume@indra.com **Subject: [h-cost] 3D Historical Costume ** ** **Greetings to the list, ** **I haven't been on this list long, and don't post all **that often, so forgive me if what I'm about to tell **you about you all already know about. :) ** **The State Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg, has a **"Virtual Viewings" feature that I just discovered last **night. You can choose between "Virtual Excursions", **"Virtual Exhibitions" and, and most exciting one, **"Gallery of 3-D Images". When you click on that one **you have several items or groups of items from the **museum's collection to choose from to view in 3-D. ** **The one of relevance to us here is of course costume **related - the "Dresses by Lamanova", Lamanova being **"one of the most talented couturiers of the turn of **the 20th century. In 1885, when she was barely 24 **years old, she opened her own atelier in Moscow." ** **There are 8 dresses to look at - from a broadcloth **visiting dress, to several evening dresses, and a **couple of ball gowns thrown in for good measure. On **each you can view the gown as it slowly rotates in **front of you, and for each dress there are two or more **views available, so you can see a general view, or a **close up of the embroidery, or the collar, or a **sleeve, etc. Enjoy! :) ** ** ** ** ** ** **Bella ** ** ** ** **http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS **- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends **_______________________________________________ **h-costume mailing list **h-costume@mail.indra.com **http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:12:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32579 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:12:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g941xC3Y018181; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g941x1Tp010626; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g941w2Tp010324 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0H3F00CKAPEOIL@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:56:48 -1000 (HST) From: annora Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs In-reply-to: <20021003052311.55006.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:57:37 -1000 (HST) Status: RO > > The title page of Johan Siebmacher's Schon Neues > > Modelbuch (1597) > > Do you happen to know the artist or nationality of the > artist by any chance? I'd love to see this portrait. Sorry, I don't know the artist but the original book is German. I don't have the actual book, but a copy of the woodcut appears in The Embroiderer's Story by Thomasina Beck. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:15:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32597 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:15:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g948L53Y004560; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 02:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g948L0cQ015096; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 02:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g948KkcQ015036 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 02:20:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 37AB41E22F1; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:20:44 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021004082044.37AB41E22F1@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:20:44 BST Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote : > Yes, presumably the gentleman I mentioned in my earlier post has his > Renaissance specs made up to his own prescription. I've seen other members of > my society in various period styles too. There are various suppliers in the UK who will take your prescription (and a cheque), and return you a pair of prescription "period" glasses. I assume they work with a friendly optician. Unfortunately, none of the ones I know of seem to have web sites or email addresses :( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:15:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32600 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:15:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g948873Y004244; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 02:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94880cQ012417; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 02:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9487ucQ012385 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 02:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9489pB06290.; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:09:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:07:55 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9487ucQ012385 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:07:18 +0100 Status: RO Dianne wrote: >However, I have a question. Would it be possible to buy a pair of the >frames in question, and have lenses ground to fit? Since I always buy >frames and lenses in one fell swoop, it's simply not come up before. And as >hard as Iam on glasses, it couldn't hurt to have an extra pair around! Yes, presumably the gentleman I mentioned in my earlier post has his Renaissance specs made up to his own prescription. I've seen other members of my society in various period styles too. I think Mara's was the most sensible suggestion. If a reenactor can't wear contacts and doesn't want to have a period pair made, they could at least wear round or oval frames, which look less incongruous than modern shapes. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:15:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32603 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:15:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g947o63Y002826; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:50:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g947o1cQ008812; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g947njcQ008762 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:49:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id BAA12204 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:10:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200210040810.BAA12204@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidery terms Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= wrote: [...] > 18th c. in India and the brightly coloured embroidered fabrics and garments > then shipped over to England. You can still get tambour hooks, but they are > specialist items. I was lucky finding some (they come with changeable hoks for > different sizes) in London. > > Does anyone know if > > chenille thread is available and where? Thanks > > Sheesh, I know that I have seen it somewhere, but can I remember? Nope. Sorry. > If I come across it again I'll let you know. Best bet is search the specialist > needlework shops and online and ask. For the US posters, I think Lacis still carries chenile thread. I _know_ they still have tambour hooks. http://www.lacis.com/ Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:17:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32612 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g947U73Y002220; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g947U0cQ004678; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:30:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g947TKcQ004533 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:29:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004072918.60940.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:29:18 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidery terms To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001701c26b2f$7a897960$170f77d8@S0026661921> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:29:18 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- LLB wrote: > A picture of an 18th century mantua is described: coloured silk twist and > chenille thread, tamboured in a meandering pattern of flowers and leaves > decorate the fabric...Is tamboured the same as couching? No, not at all. Tamboured means that it is made with a tambour hook. It looks very similar to chain stitch, but is faster. Tambour work was often done in the 18th c. in India and the brightly coloured embroidered fabrics and garments then shipped over to England. You can still get tambour hooks, but they are specialist items. I was lucky finding some (they come with changeable hoks for different sizes) in London. Does anyone know if > chenille thread is available and where? Thanks Sheesh, I know that I have seen it somewhere, but can I remember? Nope. Sorry. If I come across it again I'll let you know. Best bet is search the specialist needlework shops and online and ask. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:17:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32615 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:17:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g947F33Y001731; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g947F1cQ001461; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g947ErcQ001419 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:14:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA09666 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:16:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3D9D40AF.722A6313@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College - when? References: <4.3.1.2.20021003134333.00d0c100@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20021003201604.04e01d50@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 00:18:14 -0700 Status: RO To Carolyn- > What does one wear to CostumeCollege - anything, like it was > CostumeCon? Are the classes only historical, or do they get into > theatrical and fantasy/science fiction too? I've never been to CostumeCon but, for my one time at Costume College, I saw people wear a different costume every day, I saw people just wear regular stuff (I was one of those), and I saw people wear costume intermittently. The classes cover everything from historical to fantasy/SciFi to theatrical to contemporary issues (preservation, spotting fakes) plus a wonderful lecture by Edward Maeder. Have a great weekend, Theresa Eacker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:22:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32637 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:22:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g946t33Y001192; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g946t1cQ027084; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g946sfcQ027007 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:54:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA09558 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 23:56:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3D9D3BF3.4D358ED9@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 3D Historical Costume References: <20021004003818.21167.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:58:02 -0700 Status: RO To Bella- Oh my gosh, what a wonderful find. Thank you soooo much!!! The green and black satin dress....oooooh, I think I'm dying. The 3-D is very cool!!! Theresa Eacker Bella wrote: (Snipping) > The State Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg, has a > "Virtual Viewings" feature that I just discovered last > night. You can choose between "Virtual Excursions", > "Virtual Exhibitions" and, and most exciting one, > "Gallery of 3-D Images". When you click on that one > you have several items or groups of items from the > museum's collection to choose from to view in 3-D. > > The one of relevance to us here is of course costume > related - the "Dresses by Lamanova"... > There are 8 dresses to look at On > each you can view the gown as it slowly rotates in > front of you, > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:23:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32642 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:23:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g946A43Y029735; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g946A0cQ017661; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9469ccQ017541 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip203.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.203]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B01C014DEE3 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <075301c26ac6$71cacc20$cb604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <2.2.32.20021003030420.0072ded0@mail.verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:20:02 -0400 Status: RO > I do have an opinion on this subject, but I am going to keep it to > myself. Nicole had tried to stop this from becoming a should wear, > shouldn't wear debate as we have had those in the past on this very subject. > All that is acheived is anger and flames. Yes, really, let's not get into that debate again, pleeeease . No one's opinion in ever swayed in the least. However, I have a question. Would it be possible to buy a pair of the frames in question, and have lenses ground to fit? Since I always buy frames and lenses in one fell swoop, it's simply not come up before. And as hard as I am on glasses, it couldn't hurt to have an extra pair around! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:32:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32719 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:32:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g945I43Y027783; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 23:18:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g945I1cQ005554; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 23:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20207.mail.yahoo.com (web20207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g945HfcQ005469 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 23:17:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004051741.40075.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:17:41 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:17:41 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- annora wrote: > > Does anyone have this book, and > > would any of you who do be willing to scan and > email > > me the image please? > > I can send it to you but probably not until this > weekend. Also, > it's not a portrait. It's sort of a parlor scene > with several ladies > doing different types of handwork--variety of > embroidery, mending or plain > sewing, bobbin lace(?), working on a ruff. The lady > wearing the nose > spectacles appears to be older and looks to be > instructing or checking > over a younger lady's work. > > --annora That's just fine. Thank you, I do appreciate you doing this for me. Bella ===== Lady Bella Lucia da Verona Innilgard, Lochac The Realm of Venus http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona Owner, Courtesan E-mail Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:36:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32755 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:36:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g944543Y024563; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94451cQ016719; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9444TcQ016598 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0H3F00DH2V9E21@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:03:14 -1000 (HST) From: annora Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs In-reply-to: <20021004022858.86156.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 18:04:04 -1000 (HST) Status: RO > Does anyone have this book, and > would any of you who do be willing to scan and email > me the image please? I can send it to you but probably not until this weekend. Also, it's not a portrait. It's sort of a parlor scene with several ladies doing different types of handwork--variety of embroidery, mending or plain sewing, bobbin lace(?), working on a ruff. The lady wearing the nose spectacles appears to be older and looks to be instructing or checking over a younger lady's work. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:45:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00379 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:45:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g943U43Y023022; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g943U1cQ007611; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g943TScQ007425 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3F00NLCTOZ58@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Oct 2002 20:29:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume College - when? In-reply-to: <3D9CC918.82F2DFD4@misc.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021003201604.04e01d50@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20021003134333.00d0c100@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 20:20:10 -0700 Status: RO >Yes, CC was either the 2nd or 3rd weekend of July this year. Come and >gone like a certain Republican President's compassion!! He had compassion? Oops - not a costume question. >Who knows when next year, I think they're still sorting through the >remains of the recent one. That's my guess. A friend of mine thinks I should go, and we are beginning to make plans for next year. She thought we'd just missed this year's, and it seems she was right. What does one wear to CostumeCollege - anything, like it was CostumeCon? Are the classes only historical, or do they get into theatrical and fantasy/science fiction too? >Are you coming to PEERS this Saturday??? No, I'm going to a different dance event. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:49:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00494 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:49:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94CpF3Y011886; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 06:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94CpCcQ007635; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 06:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94CoqcQ007544 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 06:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g94Cm70Z031668 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 05:48:08 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <075301c26ac6$71cacc20$cb604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 05:50:34 -0700 Status: RO Several years ago a friend had a pair of period glasses made in England for herself. These looked much like a raccoon mask :-) with the ear pieces being strips of ribbon with small drop shaped weights that held them onto her face. Since she was in the military the lenses were actually the type that were made for gas masks, and came to her free. This was done in the spirit of "experiment". She was surprised and pleased at the actual result. The frames held the lenses up very close to her eyes, and actually allowed her to see better than her regular pair with less uncorrected peripheral vision. The weights well for fairly sedentary pursuits like reading, sewing, and some cooking. Dancing was "right out!" Granted, she looked a bit like Ricky Raccoon while wearing them, she had a blast discovering how a period style actually worked. Experimental archeology/Living history. I'd say if you had the inclination this might be a fun addition to your persona. If not, for me at least, glasses are pretty invisible. Regina Romsey "You forgot the first rule of a fanatic. When you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy." -- Sinclair, B5 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dianne and Greg Stucki Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:20 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant > I do have an opinion on this subject, but I am going to keep it to > myself. Nicole had tried to stop this from becoming a should wear, > shouldn't wear debate as we have had those in the past on this very subject. > All that is acheived is anger and flames. Yes, really, let's not get into that debate again, pleeeease . No one's opinion in ever swayed in the least. However, I have a question. Would it be possible to buy a pair of the frames in question, and have lenses ground to fit? Since I always buy frames and lenses in one fell swoop, it's simply not come up before. And as hard as I am on glasses, it couldn't hurt to have an extra pair around! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 08:59:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00716 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:59:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94D133Y012307; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 07:01:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94D11cQ009634; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 07:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94D0vcQ009612 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 07:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f60.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.96]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E5EF4849C2 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:00:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004801c26ba6$4b0a13d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <001701c26b2f$7a897960$170f77d8@S0026661921> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidery terms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01C26BB7.0E4B5380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:02:28 +0200 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C26BB7.0E4B5380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello. You have ben informed about the tambouring, so i wont tell you anything = like that. Pure Silk Chenille thread you can have from Hedgehog Handworks in USA. = Also from Barnyarns in England. I have had from both, it is a french brand called Au Ver A Soie. = Chenille thread is mostly couched to the fabric (lyed to the fabric and = sewn to it with another thread) Because Chenille Thread is a kind of = hairy thread, it is difficult to take it trough your fabric like = ordinary thread. It looks like a Caterpillar. I am making embroidery right now with this thread you can se it here:=20 http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/robealafrancaise1776.htm There is not much to se right now, as i have just started. But the red = flowers is made of Chenille Thread. Many greetings Bjarne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: LLB=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:51 AM Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery terms A picture of an 18th century mantua is described: coloured silk twist = and chenille thread, tamboured in a meandering pattern of flowers and = leaves decorate the fabric...Is tamboured the same as couching? Does = anyone know if chenille thread is available and where? Thanks Linda (picture is in Historical Fashion in Detail by Hart & North pg 92. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C26BB7.0E4B5380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello.
You have ben informed about the = tambouring, so i=20 wont tell you anything like that.
Pure Silk Chenille thread you can have = from=20 Hedgehog Handworks in USA. Also from Barnyarns in England.
I have had from both, it is a french = brand called=20 Au Ver A Soie. Chenille thread is mostly couched to the fabric (lyed to = the=20 fabric and sewn to it with another thread) Because Chenille Thread is a = kind of=20 hairy thread, it is difficult to take it trough your fabric like = ordinary=20 thread. It looks like a Caterpillar.
I am making embroidery right now with = this thread=20 you can se it here:
http://w= ww.my-drewscostumes.dk/robealafrancaise1776.htm
There is not much to se right now, as i = have just=20 started. But the red flowers is made of Chenille Thread.
 
Many greetings
 
Bjarne
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 LLB=20
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 = 12:51=20 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery = terms

A picture of an 18th century mantua = is described:=20 coloured silk twist and chenille thread, tamboured in a meandering = pattern of=20 flowers and leaves decorate the fabric...Is tamboured the same as = couching?=20 Does anyone know if chenille thread is available and where?=20 Thanks
 
Linda
 
(picture is in Historical Fashion = in=20 Detail by Hart & North pg = 92.
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C26BB7.0E4B5380-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 10:20:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01131 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:20:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94EM23Y016572; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94EM0lq004258; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx02.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx02.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94EL0lq003798 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.103]) by mx02.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 12102431 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:20:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000c01c26b54$03d4d560$6501a8c0@Home> References: <000c01c26b54$03d4d560$6501a8c0@Home> To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dressing Pins and impressive commercial costume site Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:20:52 -0400 Status: RO At 8:13 PM -0700 10/3/02, Saragrace knauf wrote: >While trying to find a picture of the "Dreaded Herjolfernes" thing, I >came across this site. > >http://www.historicenterprises.com/ What a great site! Lots of nice stuff I wouldn't have to make myself! Their Herjolfernes is a later look than the ones I did- mine have no buttons (although I left the sleeves open a way up on one of mine, to be pinned or sewn closed) and have a round neck hole with a front slit. On mine the front and back insets start up higher, just below the bustline, since they're not competing with the front buttons. This makes it much looser fitting. The sleeves on mine are looser too, and I added probably-inauthentic tiny pleats at the top of mine, though not Justin's; I also used underarm gussets and just did the sleeve seam under the arm. I was interested to see that they use only 2 gores under each arm- I thought i was cheating when i did it! The way I did it I could "cut" out most of the pieces by tearing, and the few pieces that weren't rectangular themselves were straight cuts in rectangles. Fast! I did take the time to serge all the edges, trimming the part the tearing made wonky. I'll try to get some pics this weekend! -Amanda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 10:23:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01141 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:23:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94EP13Y016822; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94EP0lq005471; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21308.mail.yahoo.com (web21308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g94EMKlq004390 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:22:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004142220.70221.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.25.104.16] by web21308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 07:22:20 PDT From: kate To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] flat-felled seams Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: ailith@neo.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 07:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Greetings! A query regarding flat-felled seams being used for Elizabethan clothing was posted to a newsgroup that I read. I don't recall ever seeing/reading anything about its usage, but then again, I haven't been able to read everything ever published ;-). Does anyone know if flat-felled seams are an old seam technique or is it modern? Thanks. kate __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 10:32:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01208 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94EY33Y017446; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94EY0lq008767; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g94EXflq008603 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004143340.96180.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:33:40 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021004142220.70221.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:33:40 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- kate wrote: > Greetings! > > A query regarding flat-felled seams being used for > Elizabethan clothing was posted to a newsgroup that I > read. > > I don't recall ever seeing/reading anything about its > usage, but then again, I haven't been able to read > everything ever published ;-). Does anyone know if > flat-felled seams are an old seam technique or is it > modern? > > Thanks. > kate It is a REALLY old technique, there are finds on the backs of early Anglo-Saxon brooches where the linen has corroded onto the metal and the seams are possible to deipher. Lo and behold, they are flat-felled. I remember reading in the Schlabow book that those finds could be dated back to the 3rd century at least on germany finds, if I am not completely mistaken. Also, the early 17th c shift on display in the Britisg gallery at the V&A is flat felled too. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 12:41:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02527 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:41:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Gf83Y028046; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:41:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Gf1lq012428; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com ([205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Geslq012192 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g94Ge3jF079000 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200210041640.g94Ge3jF079000@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Dianne and Greg Stucki" at Oct 03, 2002 06:20:02 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I used to do this all the time -- I bought up vintage glasses frames at thrift stores, and Sears optometrics has the lenses made for me. It was pretty cheap, all told. .heather. > Yes, really, let's not get into that debate again, pleeeease . No one's > opinion in ever swayed in the least. > > However, I have a question. Would it be possible to buy a pair of the frames > in question, and have lenses ground to fit? Since I always buy frames and > lenses in one fell swoop, it's simply not come up before. And as hard as I > am on glasses, it couldn't hurt to have an extra pair around! > > Dianne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 13:25:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02730 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:25:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94HR33Y002358; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94HR2lq008191; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94HQWlq007878 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:26:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AFFAF44900B6; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:29:30 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A03255B01DC; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:30:26 -0500 Message-ID: <006f01c26bcb$3fee2520$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Sending Mail Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:27:00 -0400 Status: RO If you are sending me an entry for the Online Costume Ball, please, please, put in the subject header "Online Costume Ball." I normally do not open attachments. I opened two messages with attachments this week, thinking they were for the Ball and they were viruses. So now I will only open a message with an attachment with the proper subject header. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 14:00:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02898 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:00:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94I1E3Y005111; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94I1A7s027187; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94I077s026618 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:00:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.195.247] (as3-4-5.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.195.247]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g94I05N26265 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20021004142220.70221.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021004142220.70221.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:48:21 -0700 Status: RO At 7:22 AM -0700 10/4/02, kate wrote: >Greetings! > >A query regarding flat-felled seams being used for >Elizabethan clothing was posted to a newsgroup that I >read. > >I don't recall ever seeing/reading anything about its >usage, but then again, I haven't been able to read >everything ever published ;-). Does anyone know if >flat-felled seams are an old seam technique or is it >modern? My "arcaheological sewing" article (on Cynthia's site) doesn't really cover as late as the Elizabethan era, so I can't speak to that aspect particularly. By far and away _the_ most common and widespread seam for joining wool (from the Bronze Age up through the Medieval period) was a group of techniques closely akin to a felled seam. There are a few significant differences, however, between a modern felled seam and the ones I studied. The historic seam-group doesn't normally depend on anything equivalent to a straight running seam, but rather uses a hem stitch sewing each folded edge to the flat fabric. (Sometimes there is top-stitching added to this, but the basic version is two rows of hem stitching.) So, defining the seam in terms of "overlap the two pieces of fabric with the raw edges folded to the inside", the flat felled seam is an extremely widespread and typical seam for woolen fabrics at least up through the medieval period. But the visual aspect of modern flat felled seams that involves two parallel visible straight seams is not one that appears to have been typical. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 14:04:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02932 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:04:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94I6O3Y005495; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94I6L7s001271; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94I0A7s026652 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:00:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.195.247] (as3-4-5.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.195.247]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g94I08N26445 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <075301c26ac6$71cacc20$cb604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> References: <2.2.32.20021003030420.0072ded0@mail.verizon.net> <075301c26ac6$71cacc20$cb604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:50:51 -0700 Status: RO >However, I have a question. Would it be possible to buy a pair of the frames >in question, and have lenses ground to fit? Since I always buy frames and >lenses in one fell swoop, it's simply not come up before. And as hard as I >am on glasses, it couldn't hurt to have an extra pair around! > >Dianne > The web site indicates that you can buy the frames with no lenses. (From my own experience of trying to get an optometrist to make me lenses with no frames, I advise having the frames with you when you go in to talk about lenses. It's also possible that the lenses will be more expensive if they are not a standard size and shape.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 14:43:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03027 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:43:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94IjL3Y008443; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:45:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94IjH7s022774; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:45:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94IiJ7s022274 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3H005PY01SIG@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:44:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams In-reply-to: <20021004143340.96180.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021004113929.00cef960@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20021004142220.70221.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:40:19 -0700 Status: RO > > A query regarding flat-felled seams being used for > > Elizabethan clothing was posted to a newsgroup that I > > read. > > > > I don't recall ever seeing/reading anything about its > > usage, but then again, I haven't been able to read > > everything ever published ;-). Does anyone know if > > flat-felled seams are an old seam technique or is it > > modern? >It is a REALLY old technique, there are finds on the backs of early >Anglo-Saxon >brooches where the linen has corroded onto the metal and the seams are >possible >to deipher. Lo and behold, they are flat-felled. I remember reading in the >Schlabow book that those finds could be dated back to the 3rd century at least >on germany finds, if I am not completely mistaken. >Also, the early 17th c shift on display in the Britisg gallery at the V&A is >flat felled too. Yes, but did the Elizabethans do it too? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 15:37:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03275 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:37:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Jd23Y016928; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Jd17s022823; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g94JcT7s022447 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:38:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004193829.27679.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 20:38:29 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021004113929.00cef960@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:38:29 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > Yes, but did the Elizabethans do it too? She asked 'was it old'. Therefore I answered 'yes it is old'. She did not ask 'was it Elizabethan'. I am not into Elizabethan, but the shift I have seen is Jacobean, perhaps Drea would know, having been in the V&A more renectly than I was, and I do usually skip the 16th century stuff anyway. What about the two shirt/shift in Bath? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 15:41:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03296 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:41:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Jh43Y017851; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:43:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Jh27s025424; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g94JgD7s024877 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004194212.52598.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 20:42:12 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:42:12 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > through the medieval period. But the visual aspect of modern flat > felled seams that involves two parallel visible straight seams is not > one that appears to have been typical. Hm? *scratches head* two parallel lines??? uh... are we talking about different seams here? Does anyone have a drawing? because I am not sure anymore that we are talking about the same thing. maybe I am thinking of something else??? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 16:41:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03618 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:41:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Kg23Y026420; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Kg17s028666; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Kf97s028144 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:41:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3H00C6W5GKET@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 13:41:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams In-reply-to: <20021004193829.27679.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021004133011.04de5de0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20021004113929.00cef960@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 13:32:29 -0700 Status: RO > > Yes, but did the Elizabethans do it too? > >She asked 'was it old'. Therefore I answered 'yes it is old'. She did not ask >'was it Elizabethan'. She also mentioned Elizabethan, which I am into, so I asked the list, generally, if it was Elizabethan. Good to know it's old, as I am into other periods too, but not so heavily that I knew that answer. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 17:10:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03725 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:10:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94LC43Y028553; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94LC17s012740; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94LBC7s012319 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip203.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.203]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2875510F559 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0a7101c26bea$7fe74f20$cb604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <20021004194212.52598.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:10:37 -0400 Status: RO Nicole, are you thinking of French seams perhaps? My best explanation of what a flat felled seam looks like is plain old blue jeans. Those are flat felled. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams > --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > > > through the medieval period. But the visual aspect of modern flat > > felled seams that involves two parallel visible straight seams is not > > one that appears to have been typical. > > Hm? *scratches head* two parallel lines??? uh... are we talking about different > seams here? Does anyone have a drawing? because I am not sure anymore that we > are talking about the same thing. maybe I am thinking of something else??? > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 17:29:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03776 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:29:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94LV33Y029839; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94LV17s021455; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out007.verizon.net (out007pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94LUX7s021237 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:30:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.137.251]) by out007.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20021004213026.ZTCS10046.out007.verizon.net@default> for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:30:26 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20021004212756.00739c58@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:27:56 -0400 Status: RO At 08:42 PM 10/4/02 +0100, you wrote: > --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > >> through the medieval period. But the visual aspect of modern flat >> felled seams that involves two parallel visible straight seams is not >> one that appears to have been typical. > >Hm? *scratches head* two parallel lines??? uh... are we talking about different >seams here? Does anyone have a drawing? because I am not sure anymore that we >are talking about the same thing. maybe I am thinking of something else??? > >Nicole I suspect that the poster was referring to the two needle appraoch as used on Modern Levi's blue jeans or some men's shirts. This is of course a very modern technique which doesn't make a lot of sense without a sewing machine. Historical flat felled seams that I have seen are more like those described as medeivial, at least as late as the U.S. Federal Army blouse of the 1860s. The unlined versions of these are flat felled without the parrallel stiches, even when machine were used. Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 19:08:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04215 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:08:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94NA33Y007731; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94NA0oW004458; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94N90oW004138 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.114] (as3-4-128.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.114]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g94N8wq11782 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20021004194212.52598.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021004194212.52598.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:03:53 -0700 Status: RO At 8:42 PM +0100 10/4/02, N Kipar wrote: > --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > >> through the medieval period. But the visual aspect of modern flat >> felled seams that involves two parallel visible straight seams is not >> one that appears to have been typical. > >Hm? *scratches head* two parallel lines??? uh... are we talking >about different >seams here? Does anyone have a drawing? because I am not sure anymore that we >are talking about the same thing. maybe I am thinking of something else??? I don't know -- the way I was taught to make a modern, machine-sewn flat-felled seam is: - wrong sides together, sew a straight seam - trim one side of the seam allowance slightly, fold the other over towards it - flatten the seam allowance and top-stitch along the edge of the fold You end up with two parallel visible lines of sewing on the right side of the fabric: the original seam and the top-stitched seam. Since the original question wasn't specific on that point, I wanted to distinguish between what the fabric is doing and what the stitches are doing. Someone else mentioned shirts and shifts -- I'd like to point out that, in my research for the Arcahaeological Sewing article, there tended to be a clear distinction between the set of seam types used for wool and the set used for linen. (Hem types were more similar between the two.) Seams in wool often assumed the anti-ravelling properties of that fabric, while seams in linen often involved elaborate mechanisms to avoid leaving raw edges exposed in any way. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 19:38:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04327 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:38:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Ne53Y011922; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Ne2oW016768; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g92KcWWv019253 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:38:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfloydd ([12.229.112.18]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021002203827.LHNY22381.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@pfloydd>; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:38:27 +0000 Message-ID: <200210021338020570.0922F0B1@mail.attbi.com> In-Reply-To: <004801c26a3a$ec80b2e0$a5a1fea9@horse> References: <004801c26a3a$ec80b2e0$a5a1fea9@horse> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.30.00.00 (3) From: "The Baron" To: brenna@robewarriors.com, GPACG-general@yahoogroups.com, AnTirMerchants@yahoogroups.com, margospatterns@yahoogroups.com, steps@antir.sca.org, h-costume@indra.com, ICG-D@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] Re: [STEPS] Slightly OT - Fw: Bad checks... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 13:38:02 -0700 Status: RO >Please forgive the cross-posts but this is important. I found this on the >orycon-l list and have received permission from Lauryn to re-post it >elsewhere. In her words - "Be my guest! the more people that know about >her >the better for all of us." > >I, myself, am posting this to the following groups - >GPACG-general(at)yahoogroups.com, AnTirMerchants(at)yahoogroups.com, >margospatterns(at)yahoogroups.com, steps(at)antir.sca.org (the Cathedral >Steps), h-costume(at)indra.com, and ICG-D(at)yahoogroups.com All these >have either merchants or merchant contacts on them. If you know of any >lists (or merchants not on these lists) that would be interested, please >forward. If you need to contact Lauryn directly, please contact me offline >at brenna@robewarriors.com > >Thank you for the bandwidth and keep your eyes open for this person. > >Brenna Sharp >B Sharp Fabrics SNIP FOR BREVITY M'Lady, if you could gather as much information on this matter as you could and then forward it to the following: Federal Bureau of Investigation Seattle Field Office 1110 Third Avenue, Seattle, WA 98101-2904 (206) 622-0460. Once you've forwarded the information to them via e-mail, follow up with a phone call if at all possible this will emphasize your desire for action in this matter and can help get your posts dug out of the e-mail slush pile much more rapidly. I had the privilege of working with several individuals from the FBI over the past month in regards to matters relating to threats to local mosques and synagogues on or around the anniversary of the 9/11/01 attack. While the FBI isn't my favorite Federal organization by any stretch of the mind, the vast majority of their agents who are actually in the field working are honest and hard working folk who actually do understand that their job is to enforce Federal laws for the People of the United States. The situation you're describing is not a large criminal endeavor in terms of Federal jurisdiction but make no mistake, it most certainly has crossed into Federal bounds. The second these people deliberately bounced a check outside the state of their home of record, "poof", crossing interstate lines for felonious purposes. While I most certainly can't speak for any of the Feds and can't honestly even guarantee that they'll look at your situation. I can guarantee that if they do get involved, people are going to truly wish they'd just stayed in California. As the investigation of this type of crime is fairly straight forward and defenses are very limited, it's in the interest of both the FBI and the Justice Department to take this kind of case. Don't be afraid to emphasize that to them if they don't seem enthralled by the seriousness of your concerns. Don't be afraid to come right out and say, "listen pinhead, you've got a simple, one agent interview, grab some rubber checks for evidence, get the bank's local field office to get the security tapes of the account being opened, ten man hour investigation with a ridiculously high probability of a conviction." Perhaps not phrasing it exactly that way. I'm not feeling particularly PC this afternoon. Also, forward it to the State Police and Attorney's General of each of the States involved. I don't have their contact info handy but it's readily available on the web. As someone who's worked with and around small merchants for a lot of my life, I know how much this kind of thing can hurt a person's business. The fact that the account holder's name is an alias just frosts my butt that much more. I truly dislike people taking advantage of the folks who can least afford it. It brings out my dislike for bullies and televangelists. Cairbre. Information requested by the FBI according to their www page at:http://seattle.fbi.gov/provide.htm General Information About You: Your Name. Address. Telephone: home/work. Confidentiality: yes/no. E-mail address. Subject Information: Type of crime that has been, is being, or will be committed. Location of the crime. Approximate date crime occurred or will occur. Your source of information. Were you a witness to the incident? Or did you hear about it from someone else? If so, whom? Additional Information: Subject (Person). Name and Alias(es). Physical Description: race, sex, age, height, weight, tattoos, piercings and distinguishing physical characteristics. Subject (Business). Name(s) of Business. Address of Business. Name(s) and Alias(es) of Person(s) associated with business. Address of Person(s) associated with business. Original Message Follows: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauryn MacGregor | Little Toad Designs" To: "Orycon Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 8:57 AM Subject: [ORYCON-L] Bad checks... > I recently vended at the Shrewsbury RenFaire and recieved a bad check. > Aparently this woman and or women is passing bad checks professionaly > and any vendors should be ware of her. The checks were for a business > called Maiden, Mother,& Crone out fo Oakdale California. The signature > on the check was Debbie Graziano. But there is no such person. The > checks were issued to an addres in Southbeach Oregon and the account has > not been good for at least three years. If any of the vendors on the > list have a bad check from her you can contact - > Dawn Bradely Berry > Dreamlizard Pearls & Plunder > P.O.Box 2251 > San MArcos, Cal 92079 > &07-761-4916 > 760-518-2411(cell) > > She is putting together a case against this woman. So far the evil scum > has passed checks in three states all to crafters and artists. Most of > us do this because we love our art, but we also live on a shoestring and > can't afford to be burned like this. > > Thanks for the rant space and look out for these people. > > Lauryn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 19:44:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04351 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:44:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Nk33Y012212; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g94Nk2oW018653; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21307.mail.yahoo.com (web21307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g94NjLoW018400 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021004234521.66016.qmail@web21307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.56.41] by web21307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 16:45:21 PDT From: kate To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021004142220.70221.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: flat-felled seams Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: ailith@neo.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Sorry for the vague post--the person on the newsgroup was looking for instances in Elizabethan clothing. kate __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 21:31:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04714 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:31:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g951X23Y016918; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g951X0oW015845; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g951W3oW015638 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p2-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.130] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17xdnW-0007x3-00; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 13:32:02 +1200 Message-ID: <000701c26c0f$05bcbe40$82cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] 19thC nipple piercing? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 13:32:08 +1200 Status: RO Ok.. someone posted this on the Moulin Rouge Live journal community, so I did a search.. and it seems a large numebr of body piercing sites state this: "In the 1890's it was all the rage for Victorian women to pierce their nipple with jewellery sold by the famous jewellers of Paris. Some even had both nipples pierced and hung silver chains from one to the other." http://www.body-jewellery-shop.co.uk/info/pierce_info_historyofpiercing.htm is one, but there are a lot more. http://www.bedido.com/bodypiercecentral/history.htm Now that one goes further to say the piercing held cloaks of Roman Emporer's guards.... OK, so anyone want to either substantiate this or laugh at it and say why? I don't have any info with me, but I'd love to be able to refute this with good back up. especially as people are building on this idea and thinking that our victorian forbears would have used some horribly crude tool.. like a nail to do it.... michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 21:54:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04897 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:54:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g951u33Y017894; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g951u1oW021002; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g951t0oW020740 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.183] (pm5-183.eos.net [205.133.149.183]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10613 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:54:58 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021004180009.26566.45135.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: impressive commercial site Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 21:53:10 -0400 Status: RO I believe that the woman who runs Historic Enterprises (www.historicenterprises.com) used to be on this list. For people wondering if the garments are as well made as they are attractive (and expensive!) the answer is yes. They are sturdy, beautifully made, and well worth the money if you have it -- which I don't. My husband and I both have several of their smaller pieces and WISH we had their fancier things, which we've seen and examined in person. As usual, no interest in the company, just a satisfied customer. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 22:11:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04974 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:11:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952D63Y018709; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952D0oW024805; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952CJoW024646 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id TAA15526 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:33:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200210050233.TAA15526@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19thC nipple piercing? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO "michaela" wrote: > > Ok.. someone posted this on the Moulin Rouge Live journal community, so I > did a search.. and it seems a large numebr of body piercing sites state > this: > "In the 1890's it was all the rage for Victorian women to pierce their > nipple with jewellery sold by the famous jewellers of Paris. Some even had > both nipples pierced and hung silver chains from one to the other." > > http://www.body-jewellery-shop.co.uk/info/pierce_info_historyofpiercing.htm > is one, but there are a lot more. > http://www.bedido.com/bodypiercecentral/history.htm Now that one goes > further to say the piercing held cloaks of Roman Emporer's guards.... > > OK, so anyone want to either substantiate this or laugh at it and say why? > > I don't have any info with me, but I'd love to be able to refute this with > good back up. especially as people are building on this idea and thinking > that our victorian forbears would have used some horribly crude tool.. like > a nail to do it.... [note: no, surgical tools were well enough advanced by the victorian period that a nail would be extremely unlikely.] >From Valerie Steele's _Fetish_, pg 69: Even when elements of a particular story are plausible, fantastic details are superimposed. The "governess" at "Madame La B---'s school just outside Paris" wrote to _Society_ in 1899 to describe "Tight-Lacing and the Latest Craze," that of having one's "tetons" pierced by "jewelers in the Rue St. Honore/." Some people do pierce their nipples, of course, and this was a popular topic in 1899 among correspondants to _Society_. But when the "governess" says that the practice had been described in _La Vie parisienne_ and in a recent "roman," I cannot help wondering if she is just repeating an idea that she read about. Nor is it likely that the breast-rings in her pierced nipples, together with "the friction of my lingerie" had caused her bust to grow. [I will note that nipple piercing _can indeed_ cause an apparent increase in bust size. A number of women in my personal experience have noted it, and a few noticed it because they had only _one_ nipple pierced at the time.] For background, _Modern Society_ was a fetishists' magazine. Steele points out that there isn't much _external evidence_ for the stories printed in _Society_ and _London Life_. On the next page, she notes: But why should we believe that the EDM letters are strictly factual at all? It's well recognized that many of the letters in present-day sex magazines are made up by the editors, while others represent heavily fictionalized versions of personal accounts. >From page 71: In 1899, A Woman Of Fifty wrote to _Society_ to describe her experiences at a "fashionaable finishing school" in the early 1860s, during "one of the periodic cycles of tight-lacing, as may be gathered from the correspondance which appeared in 'The Englishwoman's Domestic Magazine' about this time." She went on to refer to many of the cult elements that played a role in the fetishist literature. There was the ritualistic invocation of the sexy and sadistic "mistress" of the tight-lacing finishing school, which was populated by perverse but aristocratic young ladies and occasionally men dressed as women. The ubiquitious French governess, Mademoiselle de Beauvoir, appeared with a "13-inch waist," although otherwise "plump." "Birching...was an openly recognized punishment." Breast-rings--the current enthusiasm of correspondants to _Society_--were worn by "three French girls, daughters of a marquise." As I wrote in my first book, I do not doubt that real fetishists did many of the things they described in their letters; tight-laced, had themselves pierced and whipped, cross-dressed. But I doubt whether they did so under the circumstances that they described; at the tight-lacing boarding school, in the bosom of the aristocratic family, and at the hands of Mademoiselle de Beavoir. In other words, while the practice may have existed, it's unlikely that it was "all the rage." The only evidence I've ever seen presented all comes from the various fetishist publications of the time. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 22:16:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04996 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952I13Y018990; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952I0oW025948; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:18:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952HboW025846 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a246.in-tch.com [66.62.107.46]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9522YP09317 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:02:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D9E4D37.C33C8C79@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams References: <20021004194212.52598.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 20:23:51 -0600 Status: RO What about silks? --Sue, in a mood to sew.... Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > I'd like to point out > that, in my research for the Arcahaeological Sewing article, there > tended to be a clear distinction between the set of seam types used > for wool and the set used for linen. (Hem types were more similar > between the two.) Seams in wool often assumed the anti-ravelling > properties of that fabric, while seams in linen often involved > elaborate mechanisms to avoid leaving raw edges exposed in any way. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 22:26:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05041 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952S23Y019376; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952S1oW027877; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952RCoW027710 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:27:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.136] (as3-4-150.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.136]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g952R5j24836 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D9E4D37.C33C8C79@in-tch.com> References: <20021004194212.52598.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> <3D9E4D37.C33C8C79@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:28:16 -0700 Status: RO At 8:23 PM -0600 10/4/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Heather Rose Jones wrote: >> >> I'd like to point out >> that, in my research for the Arcahaeological Sewing article, there >> tended to be a clear distinction between the set of seam types used >> for wool and the set used for linen. (Hem types were more similar >> between the two.) Seams in wool often assumed the anti-ravelling >> properties of that fabric, while seams in linen often involved > > elaborate mechanisms to avoid leaving raw edges exposed in any way. >What about silks? >--Sue, in a mood to sew.... > I only had a very few examples in silk where the seams were described in the literature. It seemed to be more of a differentiation in what types of publications talked about what topics. Detailed descriptions of sewing methods tended to appear in archaeology-oriented publications, which only rarely dealt with silk fabrics. I think all the examples I included were from the "Clothing and Textiles" (MoL) book. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 22:43:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05123 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:43:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952j73Y020020; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952j1oW001506; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952i0oW001304 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phl2b.usr.dandy.net [66.28.136.7]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g952huVn018308 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:43:57 -0400 Message-ID: <3D9E4F3F.3E429C16@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 22:32:32 -0400 Status: RO > Something else to consider is that in this period, most spectacles were to > correct for farsightedness -- in other words, those of us who are myopic > would be out of luck. Hi, All. Mara, I am researching this area. If you have any documentation to support the idea that 16th and 1st half 17th Cent. eyeglasses were doing any corrective work other than magnifying (i.e. correcting farsighted vision), please share the source with me. Please don't bother these other folks unless they want the info also. I don't want to beat this thread up with off topic stuff. BTW, I hope that no one misconstrued my last post (Ron?). I was commenting on the styles made available by the merchant as compared to archaeological finds of the period of which I am aware, as well as his style of salesmanship, which was noted by a previous person in a previous post, not attempting to tell anyone what is gospel truth in eyewear, or what to buy or not. If I am not being clear in my posts, I once again apologise. I don't have an excuse regarding language, as I am an English speaker (as some would have it) Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 23:31:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05274 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:31:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953X43Y022124; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953X0oW011757; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953WNoW011636 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:32:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234948pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.182.133]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3H00L13OHTOB@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:32:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3D9E5D43.8090503@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 References: <20021005015601.21001.75281.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] OT for most of us....Re:the post about bad checks Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:32:19 -0400 Status: RO Rest assured, the FBI has been involved in it already... Also the name rung familiar bells in the heads of several over on the alt.fairs.renaissance newsgroup, so that past information was also looked up and passed on to the original seeker of information and warning spreader. I believe she was also considering involving the Post Office if she could, as obtaining the checks for (possible) fraudulent use was done through a Post Office Box... among other things, I believe they started to require valid ID before you could rent a box way back around the Unibomber garbage years ago, and I didn't think that had changed. -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 23:40:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05309 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:40:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953g23Y022427; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953g0oW013497; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953fWoW013415 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:41:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a247.in-tch.com [66.62.107.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g953QWP03209 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:26:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D9E60E5.C90CE1A1@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams References: <20021004194212.52598.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> <3D9E4D37.C33C8C79@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 21:47:49 -0600 Status: RO Ahhh....that I have (2nd edition). Thanks, Sue (now more in a mood for some Irish Coffee and bed, but the sewing jones *will* return! ;-) Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > >What about silks? > >--Sue, in a mood to sew.... > > > > I only had a very few examples in silk where the seams were > described in the literature. It seemed to be more of a > differentiation in what types of publications talked about what > topics. Detailed descriptions of sewing methods tended to appear in > archaeology-oriented publications, which only rarely dealt with silk > fabrics. I think all the examples I included were from the "Clothing > and Textiles" (MoL) book. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 23:42:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05317 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:42:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953i23Y022533; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953i1oW013838; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953h7oW013702 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.136.8]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20021005034301.OPJF18399.out012.verizon.net@default> for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:43:01 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20021005034032.006f2a34@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19thC nipple piercing? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:40:32 -0400 Status: RO At 01:32 PM 10/5/02 +1200, you wrote: >Ok.. someone posted this on the Moulin Rouge Live journal community, so I >did a search.. and it seems a large numebr of body piercing sites state >this: >"In the 1890's it was all the rage for Victorian women to pierce their >nipple with jewellery sold by the famous jewellers of Paris. Some even had >both nipples pierced and hung silver chains from one to the other." > >http://www.body-jewellery-shop.co.uk/info/pierce_info_historyofpiercing.htm >is one, but there are a lot more. >http://www.bedido.com/bodypiercecentral/history.htm Now that one goes >further to say the piercing held cloaks of Roman Emporer's guards.... > >OK, so anyone want to either substantiate this or laugh at it and say why? > >I don't have any info with me, but I'd love to be able to refute this with >good back up. especially as people are building on this idea and thinking >that our victorian forbears would have used some horribly crude tool.. like >a nail to do it.... > >michaela >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce >http://recital.tripod.com/costume The requirement for documentation is not upon you. It is difficult and often impossible to prove the negative, and so where scholarly documentation is concerned, it falls to those making the claim of the practice. I did not check the webpages you mentioned, and have no interest to, but did they give documentation for their claims? Webpages by the way, are useless as documentation (though better ones cite sources). Anybody can put anything on the web. Typically they quote each other or often the same source. My Great Uncle for instance (Jackie Condon) is listed on several "Little Rascals" and silent film sites as having died in 1978. He is still living today in Las Vegas. Genealogy pages are filled with errors! I would be even more suspect of the sort of webpage you mention. Before any peirced people get offended, that is not the part I refer to. What I mean are the webpages that are about some modern craft, hobby, art, etc. that has a page listing it's history. These are often posted by people with little interest in history quoting secondary sources that are about the modern craft, hobby, or art, and not its history. I am sure that some of you have seen what I mean before. Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 4 23:52:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05350 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:52:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953s23Y022897; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953s0oW016004; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g953rkoW015948 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:53:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a247.in-tch.com [66.62.107.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g953ckP06576 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D9E63C3.D58B89A8@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams References: <20021004193829.27679.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 22:00:03 -0600 Status: RO The man's shirt is straight sewing, if I correctly recall my Janet Arnold article, in which it was discussed. Think the edges of the pieces had tiny, tiny hems, and then they were stitched together with a very small seam--didn't look like anything but a regular seam, as much as I could see, squinting through the glass and salivating. The woman's shift has got insets of linen and silk bobbin lace along all of the major seams (side seams of body, armscyes, outer center of sleeves). The lace is connected to the linen on either side with buttonhole stitching. I *think* there's a more ordinary seam under the arm for the regular seam (as opposed to the decorative one on the outside). I'd have to dig out my notes and double-check. Does that make sense? I also got the impression, with both of them, of fairly narrow (rolled?) hems. I've also seen good closeup pix. of the boy's shirt that the V&A *used* to have on display (grumble, grumble). On it, the pieces of fabric were joined with this interesting embroidery stitch that looked a bit like some of the faggoting/buttonhole stitches I've been able to find in modern embroider books (although I've not found anything that looked exactly like it). I have read that this was a fairly common method of joining the pieces of these shirts and smocks. Dunno about earlier stuff, but there sure are a fair number of pictures showing this, if you look for it! (Sorry, tried to ascii-art it, but it didn't work! ) Essentially, the embroidery stitch wanders back and forth, regularly, between the two abutting edges, catching them both, but alternating. Does that make *any* sense at all? --Sue, forever and always completely obsessed with blackwork..... N Kipar wrote: > > I am not into Elizabethan, but the shift I have seen is Jacobean, perhaps Drea > would know, having been in the V&A more renectly than I was, and I do usually > skip the 16th century stuff anyway. What about the two shirt/shift in Bath? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 00:22:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05467 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:22:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g954O23Y023795; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g954O0oW021945; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g954NYoW021832 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:23:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p340-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.86] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17xgTU-0005KH-00; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 16:23:32 +1200 Message-ID: <000901c26c26$fa7565b0$56c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <2.2.32.20021005034032.006f2a34@mail.verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19thC nipple piercing? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 16:23:37 +1200 Status: RO > Webpages by the way, are useless as documentation (though better > ones cite sources). Anybody can put anything on the web. Typically they > quote each other or often the same source. My Great Uncle for instance > (Jackie Condon) is listed on several "Little Rascals" and silent film sites > as having died in 1978. He is still living today in Las Vegas. Genealogy > pages are filled with errors! Oh I know, this is the point I ws trying to make to the original poster on the MR LJ community. Basically they are willing to believe a site with no sources, no explanation for such a gernalistic sweeping remark. A remark which also goes against what common sense would suggest anyway;) http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=moulin_rouge&itemid=458020 Good grief I've got a lot of typos in my posts.... michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 00:28:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05509 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:28:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g954U23Y024014; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:30:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g954U1oW023065; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g954T2oW022862 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p340-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.86] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17xgYm-0007yG-00; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 16:29:01 +1200 Message-ID: <001101c26c27$bf190ed0$56c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <200210050233.TAA15526@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19thC nipple piercing? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 16:29:07 +1200 Status: RO Thank you so much:) I had a feeling Valerie Steele would be mentioned too, Do I have permission to use this in my next reply to this person? It's good int hat it states it's possible this did happen but what those circumstances would have been. michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume > [note: no, surgical tools were well enough advanced by the victorian period > that a nail would be extremely unlikely.] > > From Valerie Steele's _Fetish_, pg 69: > > Even when elements of a particular story are plausible, fantastic > details are superimposed. The "governess" at "Madame La B---'s > school just outside Paris" wrote to _Society_ in 1899 to describe > "Tight-Lacing and the Latest Craze," that of having one's "tetons" > pierced by "jewelers in the Rue St. Honore/." Some people do pierce > their nipples, of course, and this was a popular topic in 1899 > among correspondants to _Society_. But when the "governess" says > that the practice had been described in _La Vie parisienne_ and in > a recent "roman," I cannot help wondering if she is just repeating > an idea that she read about. Nor is it likely that the breast-rings > in her pierced nipples, together with "the friction of my lingerie" > had caused her bust to grow. > > [I will note that nipple piercing _can indeed_ cause an apparent increase > in bust size. A number of women in my personal experience have noted it, > and a few noticed it because they had only _one_ nipple pierced at the time.] > > For background, _Modern Society_ was a fetishists' magazine. Steele points out > that there isn't much _external evidence_ for the stories printed in _Society_ > and _London Life_. On the next page, she notes: > But why should we believe that the EDM letters are strictly factual > at all? It's well recognized that many of the letters in present-day > sex magazines are made up by the editors, while others represent > heavily fictionalized versions of personal accounts. > > From page 71: > In 1899, A Woman Of Fifty wrote to _Society_ to describe her > experiences at a "fashionaable finishing school" in the early 1860s, > during "one of the periodic cycles of tight-lacing, as may be gathered > from the correspondance which appeared in 'The Englishwoman's Domestic > Magazine' about this time." She went on to refer to many of the cult > elements that played a role in the fetishist literature. There was > the ritualistic invocation of the sexy and sadistic "mistress" of > the tight-lacing finishing school, which was populated by perverse > but aristocratic young ladies and occasionally men dressed as women. > The ubiquitious French governess, Mademoiselle de Beauvoir, appeared > with a "13-inch waist," although otherwise "plump." "Birching...was > an openly recognized punishment." Breast-rings--the current > enthusiasm of correspondants to _Society_--were worn by "three French > girls, daughters of a marquise." > > As I wrote in my first book, I do not doubt that real fetishists did > many of the things they described in their letters; tight-laced, had > themselves pierced and whipped, cross-dressed. But I doubt whether > they did so under the circumstances that they described; at the > tight-lacing boarding school, in the bosom of the aristocratic family, > and at the hands of Mademoiselle de Beavoir. > > In other words, while the practice may have existed, it's unlikely that it > was "all the rage." The only evidence I've ever seen presented all comes > from the various fetishist publications of the time. > > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 02:05:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08530 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:05:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g956753Y026931; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95672oW011727; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95665oW011545 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip114.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.114]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g9565w400336 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:05:58 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams Message-ID: <3D9E1FB6.19330.1F04715@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3D9E63C3.D58B89A8@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:09:42 -0700 Status: RO > I also got the impression, with both of them, of fairly > narrow (rolled?) hems. I've also seen good closeup pix. of the boy's > shirt that the V&A *used* to have on display (grumble, grumble). On > it, the pieces of fabric were joined with this interesting embroidery > stitch that looked a bit like some of the faggoting/buttonhole > stitches I've been able to find in modern embroider books (although > I've not found anything that looked exactly like it). I have read > that this was a fairly common method of joining the pieces of these > shirts and smocks. Dunno about earlier stuff, but there sure are a > fair number of pictures showing this, if you look for it! (Sorry, > tried to ascii-art it, but it didn't work! ) Essentially, the > embroidery stitch wanders back and forth, regularly, between the two > abutting edges, catching them both, but alternating. Does that make > *any* sense at all? --Sue, forever and always completely obsessed with > blackwork..... If you are speaking of the 1540's Boy's shirt which used to be on display at the V&A (until they took it out to put in 20th C evening dresses from what Drea told me), it has simple seaming which is opened out and then overstitched with embroidery. It can be clearly seen in at least one blackwork book (although I can't find it although I tried to find the reference last week for Drea). No faggotting on that one. (Later ones are more likely to have it anyway, especially Elizabethan/Jacobean ones.) Most of the things I've seen have either had a lining (so they wouldn't use flat-felling as a seam treatment), used overcast stitches (Elizabethan "serging") on the edges of opened out seams, or were reinforced by applying trim over them (so that it is a strong seam, which is part of the function of flat-felling.) Doesn't mean that it never occurred in that time frame, but I haven't seen extant garments with it. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 02:12:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08935 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:12:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g956E13Y027159; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g956E0oW013005; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out007.verizon.net (out007pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g956DDoW012848 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.136.8]) by out007.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20021005061306.EEGP10046.out007.verizon.net@default> for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 01:13:06 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20021005061036.006ea150@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 02:10:36 -0400 Status: RO At 10:32 PM 10/4/02 -0400, you wrote: >> Something else to consider is that in this period, most spectacles were to >> correct for farsightedness -- in other words, those of us who are myopic >> would be out of luck. > >Hi, All. Mara, I am researching this area. If you have any documentation to >support the idea that 16th and 1st half 17th Cent. eyeglasses were doing any >corrective work other than magnifying (i.e. correcting farsighted vision), >please share the source with me. Please don't bother these other folks unless >they want the info also. I don't want to beat this thread up with off topic >stuff. BTW, I hope that no one misconstrued my last post (Ron?). Aw...Mike I was afraid that by using your post as my springboard that I would give you the wrong idea.... I was not referring to your post really, but to a worry of what might rear it's head. It looked like it was beginning (I won't wear those they are ugly, but you should they are correct, etc...). These sorts of arguments are useless on the list. What are more useful are some of the threads that have spun off of the subject (ARE these period designs, Do women wear them, why are they worn, what are alternatives, etc). I suspect you and I in fact have very similar thoughts regarding the authenticity topic! Along those lines, I also would not refrain from continuing your above mentioned discussion online. Glasses I would argue can be part of costume, and I do not think that any would have objections to discussing what period glasses are, or how they were worn or used in period. It's discussions regarding weather or not they must be worn know that get nasty! Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 04:07:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26960 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 04:07:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g958953Y001677; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95891oW004971; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9588xoW004957 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:08:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AEC8CE2F013A; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 03:11:52 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF064A5D00CE; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 03:12:54 -0500 Message-ID: <006901c26c46$872bcb60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <2.2.32.20021005034032.006f2a34@mail.verizon.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Ron's Uncle and Vintage Game Shows Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 04:09:28 -0400 Status: RO Ron, I saw your great uncle on a 1950/early 60s game show the other night... I think it was I've Got a Secret. BTW, for those who are fans of 1950s/early 60s fashions, Game Show Network is repeating the series, What's My Line from its beginning. The show was on the air 17 years. The old black & white TV shows start at 4AM to 6AM East Coast time. The three shows airing now are: I've Got a Secret, What's My Line, and To Tell the Truth. You can pick up on a lot of fashion designers of the time as guests. Right now, What's My Line is in the original broadcast year, 1953. Margaret Thurman was a mystery guest yesterday. She looked so lovely and her hairstyle was wonderful. What is so wonderful about these shows is that they will show the latest fashions. Mary Quant was a guest one night when she first introduced the mini-skirt. Because these shows were broadcast out of NYC, you will catch a lot of Broadway and film stars. One night Bette Davis was the mystery guest and she had on the flowing gown. I laughed myself silly as she walked over to meet the panel... she gracefully threw the skirt out in front of her, took a couple of steps, and then threw the skirt out again. So dramatic of an exit for Bette. A couple of unusual fashion firsts on the shows.... 1. A dress with over 10,000 optical lights... this was the 50s. These were lights like you see those fiber optic strand balls in Spensers. 2. Last night a lady was on I've Got a Secret... her cocktail dress was made of 100 something pairs of nylon hose. The ladies in the town donated their hose so she could made the dress. She described how she made the dress. The bodice was the hose made in a basket weave. I couldn't figure out how she made the bottom. A big way to tell the broadcast year is that it is mentioned sometimes, but you can also tell by what film they say is premiering. Then hope over to imdb.com and put in the name of the film. The site will tell you the year it was premiered. Now to top it off... my husband and I love to watch Gunsmoke at 6AM on TVLand to pick out who is wearing the wrong fashions for the period. They are in the early to mid-1970s original broadcast time right now. Its our together time before Joe goes to work and I am heading to bed to sleep. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 04:10:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32663 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 04:10:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g958C23Y001805; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g958C2oW005524; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g958BRoW005434 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:11:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AF5B128900F0; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 03:14:19 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF9A4A6300CE; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 03:15:22 -0500 Message-ID: <007101c26c46$df2bdee0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <2.2.32.20021005034032.006f2a34@mail.verizon.net> <000901c26c26$fa7565b0$56c1adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19thC nipple piercing? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 04:11:56 -0400 Status: RO Michaela, What is so funny about both sites is that the information is identical and that neither sites a source. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 10:06:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22683 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:06:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95E833Y011316; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 08:08:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95E80oW008263; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 08:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net (scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95E7qoW008228 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 08:07:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net ([10.116.0.124]) by scanmail4.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 5 Oct 2002 07:07:03 -0700 Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124] by scanmail4.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A207BCE024E; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 07:07:03 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 05 Oct 2002 07:07:02 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Message-ID: <000601c26c78$cfc78530$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: <3D9E4F3F.3E429C16@dandy.net> Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Subject: [h-cost] corrective lenses Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 09:09:24 -0500 Status: RO Last night at the bookstore I was browsing through this book: Glass: A World History by Alan MacFarlane, Gerry Martin The authors discuss the discovery of lenses and list dates for their uses, both concave and convex, specifically in Europe. The book was interesting, but I think I'll borrow a copy from the public library rather than buy it. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 11:16:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22989 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 11:16:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95FH23Y013793; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 09:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95FH1oW023094; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 09:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95FGPoW022914 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 09:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default ([151.199.136.82]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20021005151619.JOBH12466.out003.verizon.net@default> for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:16:19 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20021005151350.006f8784@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ron's (OOP) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 11:13:50 -0400 Status: RO At 04:09 AM 10/5/02 -0400, you wrote: >Ron, > >I saw your great uncle on a 1950/early 60s game show the other night... I >think it was I've Got a Secret. > Interesting, I knew that he had been on a TV show but I do not recall what it was. The one I am thinking of however he was not alone, he was with the man that used to play Farina and one other. Is this the show you mean? I have never seen any of his Our Gang Comedies, as they are the silent versions as opposed to the more common "Little Rascals" though I have seen him in Buster Keaton's "The General" and I have a newsreel of him and the old cast of the "Our Gang" comedies welcoming the new cast. Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 15:31:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23977 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:31:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95JW43Y024461; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 13:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95JW1oW017865; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 13:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95JVboW017771 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 13:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from RikWolff@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.e6.2f6f7fb2 (4196) for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:31:29 -0400 (EDT) From: RikWolff@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 Subject: [h-cost] I've made a spectacle of myself Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:31:28 EDT Status: RO Greetings to all on this list, from the little old brillenmacher, me. A friend alerted me that I and my site are actually getting some press on the Web. I appreciate each and every comment. Let me address as many as I can, both about the site and about period eyewear. Q. Isn't the introductory letter a tad caustic? A. You betcha. A revamp of the site is the next thing I do, after this letter. I was just trying to suggest some frustration at what I thought was the complacency among average SCA members about their limited choices in eyewear. My intent was to gently grab the lapels, but I'm afraid I also spat in the face. Q. Why won't the PayPal buttons work? A. Because I fiddled with them. I ordered the button HTML before I put the site together, then rewrote the code to make it work. I'll fix it as part of the _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 16:07:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24112 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 16:07:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95K9B3Y025807; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 14:09:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95K95oW025533; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 14:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95K8uoW025449 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 14:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host62-6-93-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.93.58] helo=dan) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17xvEN-00049F-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 21:08:55 +0100 Message-ID: <001601c26cab$7db7cc40$3a5d063e@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 21:12:11 +0100 Status: RO Hi all, the vendor of this "Edwardian" jacket at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=965672260 is hedging his/her bets, as we go on to: "Around the waist band is a strip of wide silk brocade in a medieval pattern" and "This garment really resembles an Elizabethan jacket but I believe it is Edwardian because of the pigeon breasted front." It's a very strange jacket, and it looks to me to be a theatrical costume, but I should be interested in your comments. Be warned, there are a lot of pictures... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 17:05:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24331 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:05:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95L723Y027798; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95L70oW007964; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95L6HoW007776 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.153.15503a2c (3972) for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:06:09 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <153.15503a2c.2ad0ae41@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: impressive commercial site To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_153.15503a2c.2ad0ae41_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:06:09 EDT Status: RO --part1_153.15503a2c.2ad0ae41_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love looking at historic enterprises' web site too. They are inspiring and I know of a few people who have purchased items from them (hats and knives) and they were very satisfied with the quality. I have a question though, for some of you who have seen their clothes, how are the seams finished on the inside of their garments? Serged, overlocked or unfinished seams? How do most "serious" historical commercial clothing companies finish the insides of their garments? This info is often not provided on product descriptions, is it because most consumers don't really care? Just curious. Lisa --part1_153.15503a2c.2ad0ae41_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love looking at historic enterprises' web site  too.  They are inspiring and I know of a few people who have purchased items from them (hats and knives) and they were very satisfied with the quality.

I have a question though, for some of you who have seen their clothes, how are the seams finished on the inside of their garments?  Serged, overlocked or unfinished seams?  How do most "serious" historical commercial clothing companies finish the insides of their garments?  This info is often not provided on product descriptions, is it because most consumers don't really care?

Just curious.

Lisa --part1_153.15503a2c.2ad0ae41_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 19:43:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24887 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 19:43:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95Ni83Y002829; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:44:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95Ni1oW008861; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g95NhJoW008730 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:43:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a235.in-tch.com [66.62.107.35]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g95NSIP24866 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D9F7A91.2E0A8709@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay References: <001601c26cab$7db7cc40$3a5d063e@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 17:49:37 -0600 Status: RO My rather edwardian-uninformed/ignorant opinion? It's ug-gleee! And I really don't see how it resembles anything Elizabethan at all. My two euro' worth..... --sue Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Hi all, > > the vendor of this "Edwardian" jacket at > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=965672260 > > It's a very strange jacket, and it looks to me to be a theatrical > costume, but I should be interested in your comments. Be warned, there > are a lot of pictures... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 20:17:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24973 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960J43Y004044; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960J2oW016065; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960I2oW015842 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pnsk1211.dialup.dandy.net [66.250.156.211]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960HwVn003990 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:17:59 -0400 Message-ID: <3D9F7E86.2410BD23@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: renspecs - rant References: <2.2.32.20021005061036.006ea150@mail.verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 20:06:30 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. Thanks, Ron. I was hoping that I hadn't been misunderstood. You are right about the number of things (accuracy and the like). We most probably are of the same opinion. I certainly don't want to get into an issue about looks or taste in items of apparel, regardless of who wears or sells them. The sellers pitch has been discussed, and apparently he has been made aware of the perceived shortcomings. As a side note. I do have some archaeological info on glasses for anyone who is interested. Sent me a private e-mail for further info. Mike T. PS The picture of the old woman with spectacles can be found on pg. 38 of "British Embroidery, Curious Works fron the Seventeenth Century" by Kathleen Epstein Curious Works Press 1998 ISBN 0-87935-186-1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 20:34:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25038 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:34:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960a23Y004645; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960a1oW019327; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960Z9oW019157 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (pnsk1211.dialup.dandy.net [66.250.156.211]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960Z2Vn001156 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:35:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3D9F8287.C72C210F@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: impressive commercial site References: <153.15503a2c.2ad0ae41@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 20:23:35 -0400 Status: RO Hi. Your best bet is to contact Gwen personally (she's the clothing person in the business), but I believe that she does serging for the inside seams of some of her products. The reason for this, I would guess, is to keep costs down and still meet the reenactor "5 foot rule" for clothing. I don't doubt that, for an additional charge, she would probably do handwork on unexposed seams, but I know that she is very careful not to have any machine work exposed on her gear. She has taken great pains to make the patterns to keep the garments this way. I can't think of any other "serious" historical commercial clothing companies whose work I have seen. There are some folks out there that will do "spot on" recreations of clothing, and you pay the price for hand work. Others are working from the other end, not because they don't care, but because the requirements aren't so stringent. Just my 2 cents. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 20:48:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25087 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960l53Y005126; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:47:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960l1oW021493; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g960kRoW021395 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234948pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.182.133]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3J0027WBH9QM@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 20:46:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3D9F87E1.7070909@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 References: <20021005180009.28487.32351.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: Online Costume Ball (Guest #22?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 20:46:25 -0400 Status: RO Ok... is it my imagination, or are those Canadians down here visiting MDRF for their takeover? (Yeah, the MDRF folk love the OnRF folk... specially since we've several who are both... but it's a friendly competition in some ways as well :-) Not that they might not have a similar pavillion, but the pavillion with that set up of trees behind it looks awfully familiar.... -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 22:13:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25438 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:13:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g962E43Y008441; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g962E0oW008881; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g962DLoW008783 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021006021320.99087.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 12:13:20 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 3D Historical Costume To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3D9D3BF3.4D358ED9@misc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:13:20 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Bella- > > Oh my gosh, what a wonderful find. Thank you soooo > much!!! > The green and black satin dress....oooooh, I think > I'm dying. > > The 3-D is very cool!!! You're very welcome. I love the green and black one too. Probably because I love green. Next to red it's my favourite colour. :) Bella...who has been having a break from sewing since the 1st, after completing a Florentine doublet bodice dress in *green* velvet...must get back to sewing for my fiance's outfit though.... http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 22:52:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25571 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g962s73Y009958; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:54:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g962s1oW016620; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g962r2oW016464 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3J00GGHHCD6X@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 19:53:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19thC nipple piercing? In-reply-to: <2.2.32.20021005034032.006f2a34@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021005194338.00ce7d10@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 19:47:40 -0700 Status: RO Speaking as a pierced person, I am in no way offended by a piece written by someone like you, so obviously concerned about scholarship. I too have to deal with this, and some things even more spurious. More often that you probably would care to be dealing, as several of my friends and acquaintances are also pierced people, and not all of them care about scholarship, nor some apparently even know what that word means. >Before any peirced people get offended, that is not the part I refer to. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 22:55:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25578 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:55:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g962vA3Y010087; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:57:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g962v8oW017289; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:57:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g962r2oY016464 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3J00GGHHCD6X@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 19:53:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay In-reply-to: <001601c26cab$7db7cc40$3a5d063e@dan> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021005195047.00ce8240@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 19:52:26 -0700 Status: RO >It's a very strange jacket, and it looks to me to be a theatrical >costume, but I should be interested in your comments. Be warned, there >are a lot of pictures... I looked at the brown tape appliqued in various places, and decided the workmanship would have been better if it had been real Edwardian. OTOH, I liked the fibre-art aspects of it - I could wear it to San Francisco and nobody would think it was historical. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 5 22:58:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25584 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:58:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g963043Y010198; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 21:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96302oW017820; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 21:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g962wBoW017492 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A76819D80062; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 22:00:56 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7B045C013C; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 22:02:08 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c26ce4$46194640$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <2.2.32.20021005151350.006f8784@mail.verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ron's (OOP) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:58:39 -0400 Status: RO Ron, He was by himself on the show. He held up a photo of himself and they did a closeup of it. His secret was that he was in the Our Gang series. Do you have cable TV? A lot of the silents are shown on TCM early on Sunday mornings. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 00:10:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25809 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 00:10:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g964B53Y012645; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g964B2oW000754; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g964AooW000719 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:10:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3J005J0KY1BA@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 21:10:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021005210901.00c89a80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Edwardian Renaissance - no, really Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 21:10:46 -0700 Status: RO Found some Edwardian theatrical costumes on e-bay - search on 'edwardian costume'. There are several, plus several hats to go with them. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 02:30:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26125 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 02:30:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g966WF3Y017098; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 00:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g966W4oW024875; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 00:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g966VroW024822 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 00:31:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.197.58] (tnt-1-122.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.58]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g966Vpj10621 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 23:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] I've made a spectacle of myself Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:19:41 -0700 Status: RO At 3:31 PM -0400 10/5/02, RikWolff@aol.com wrote: >Greetings to all on this list, from the little old brillenmacher, me. > >A friend alerted me that I and my site are actually getting some press on the >Web. I appreciate each and every comment. Let me address as many as I can, >both about the site and about period eyewear. > >Q. Isn't the introductory letter a tad caustic? >A. You betcha. A revamp of the site is the next thing I do, after this >letter. I was just trying to suggest some frustration at what I thought was >the complacency among average SCA members about their limited choices in >eyewear. My intent was to gently grab the lapels, but I'm afraid I also spat >in the face. > >Q. Why won't the PayPal buttons work? >A. Because I fiddled with them. I ordered the button HTML before I put the >site together, then rewrote the code to make it work. I'll fix it as part of >the >__ Q. When will the full range of styles become available? Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 07:30:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27534 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 07:30:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96BW73Y025293; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 05:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96BW1oW008771; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 05:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96BV2oW008636 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 05:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f3b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.59]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B01F4855D3 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:31:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001201c26d2c$3a5d3210$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021005195047.00ce8240@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:33:43 +0200 Status: RO Hi. Yes, i would say that two. Could this be a new garment made of old fabrics? It is quite fashionable for now, isnt it? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 4:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay > > >It's a very strange jacket, and it looks to me to be a theatrical > >costume, but I should be interested in your comments. Be warned, there > >are a lot of pictures... > > I looked at the brown tape appliqued in various places, and decided the > workmanship would have been better if it had been real Edwardian. OTOH, I > liked the fibre-art aspects of it - I could wear it to San Francisco and > nobody would think it was historical. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 07:42:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27564 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 07:42:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Bi43Y025553; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 05:44:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Bi1oW010567; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 05:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96BheoW010514 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 05:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f3b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.59]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E74FA4801D9 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:43:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002e01c26d2d$ff598d10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Maria Theresia Dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:46:24 +0200 Status: RO Hello. The arachne lace list i am on, is disgussing a dress portraied in a painting of Maria Theresia. I thoaght, when i am on a costume list to pass on the question. There is a portrait of Empress Maria Theresia of Austria (Marie Antoinettes mother) at Schönbrunn in Wienna. she is wearing a specktakular court dress where the skirt wich is over a huge panier has beautifull beautifull laces applyed to the fabric. Not in ruches and not gathered or pleated, but applyed so that the lace comes to its best look. I think the portrait is in Santina Levey's huge book about the history of lace. Well i mostly have costume books, and i wondered is there a costume book where this portrait would be in? Or is there an online place where i could se this? The arachne list wondered if any know what happened to this dress, it would have presented a vast fortune. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 08:43:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27757 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 08:43:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Cg43Y026884; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 06:42:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Cg2oW019236; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 06:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96CfroW019205 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 06:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3K00C4K8LSWJ@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 05:41:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay In-reply-to: <001201c26d2c$3a5d3210$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021006051502.00d53f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20021005195047.00ce8240@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 05:15:37 -0700 Status: RO I may make one for wearing in the present day, as in, not at historical events. >Yes, i would say that two. >Could this be a new garment made of old fabrics? >It is quite fashionable for now, isnt it? > >Bjarne > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" >To: >Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 4:52 AM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay > > > > > > >It's a very strange jacket, and it looks to me to be a theatrical > > >costume, but I should be interested in your comments. Be warned, there > > >are a lot of pictures... > > > > I looked at the brown tape appliqued in various places, and decided the > > workmanship would have been better if it had been real Edwardian. OTOH, I > > liked the fibre-art aspects of it - I could wear it to San Francisco and > > nobody would think it was historical. > > > > Kayta > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 08:57:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27784 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 08:57:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96CxD3Y027374; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 06:59:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Cx6oW021962; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 06:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96CwcoW021891 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 06:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.98] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A32A9206028C; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 08:57:14 -0400 Message-ID: <00fc01c26d38$678bb340$625183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <001601c26cab$7db7cc40$3a5d063e@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:00:52 -0400 Status: RO Greetings again. This piece is certainly the turn of the 19th Century. One of the fashion ideas of the time was to was to reflect the modes of the Renaissance, which this piece certainly does It has been modified perhaps for theater, as has been suggested. The fur is an add on, including the beaded embellishments. The satin bands have been obviously been added to enlarge the waist, and this has also changed the front fastening. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 4:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay > Hi all, > > the vendor of this "Edwardian" jacket at > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=965672260 > > is hedging his/her bets, as we go on to: > > "Around the waist band is a strip of wide silk brocade in a medieval > pattern" > and > "This garment really resembles an Elizabethan jacket but I believe it > is Edwardian because of the pigeon breasted front." > > It's a very strange jacket, and it looks to me to be a theatrical > costume, but I should be interested in your comments. Be warned, there > are a lot of pictures... > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 10:28:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28149 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 10:28:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96EU93Y000114; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 08:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96EU4oW007403; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 08:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96ESxoW007216 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 08:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3K00ERIDK4EX@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 10:28:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DA048E8.4060808@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Finishing Seams/costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 09:30:00 -0500 Status: RO I have sold garments with serged seams, raw edged seams, french seamed and flat felled. It depends on the qualities of the fabrics. But to be honest most of them are serged. This is obviously not historically accurate. While I create clothing that gives the wearer a historic siloheutte I do not state outright that anything is historically accurate unless it is. It is much easier to be historically accurate for me, if it is a time period after the sewing machine was invented. :D Historic accuracy to me means you create the garment as it would have been created during the era it is duplicating, right down to the method of stitches. I can not afford to hand sew garments that are replicating the Tudor era and then be successful commercially. Now if someone wishes an item to be completely historically correct they let me know and it is priced accordingly. Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 11:10:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32371 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:10:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96FCT3Y001709; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:12:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96FCJoW014540; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96FAWoW014197 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.157.15634f8a (4426) for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:10:16 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <157.15634f8a.2ad1ac58@aol.com> Subject: [h-cost] Finishing Seams/costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_157.15634f8a.2ad1ac58_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:10:16 EDT Status: RO --part1_157.15634f8a.2ad1ac58_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the info on what is considered acceptable for finishes. I ask as I am in the middle of developing a small line of reproduction linen shirts/partlets, etc. with machine blackwork on them and I am new to the American re-enactment scene, although I know Australia's well. I am weighing the cost to produce/accuracy factor myself at the moment. In promoting them, I am quite happy to give a full description so people know what they are getting, but I noticed that many other respected companies do not give details of the inner construction. It seems to me people who care will ask, and for others it may be a case of too much information. Is this an accurate appraisal of American re-enactor consumers? I probably will go with the serged finishes myself unless people request otherwise I will out price most people who might be interested in embroidered garments. In Australia the 14th Brooklyn NYSM 's definition of levels of living history authenticity are being widely adopted and follow. Is this a scale people here are familiar with? Is it referred to at all? Museum Quality: Design, materials and methods are identical to those of the time and place one is attempting to represent. As an example this would involve > copying an original garment down to the last stitch. Acceptable Quality: Having one or more variations from museum quality, which does not significantly detract from its use in historic representation. This > might allow garments with a modern material lining or synthetic thread, but > which have the exact look of the original Marginal Quality: Having one or more variations from museum quality or subject to questionable interpretations of historic fact, which significantly detracts > from its use. The use of incorrect weight material, change in design or fit > which are noticeable on close inspection, or incorrect materials for > buttons, fall into this category. Unacceptable: Anything which is unquestionably wrong, ie polyester materials, modern shirts, modern eyeglasses, wrist watches, chromed metals, mobile > phones, stay-brite buttons. Thanks for your feedback. Lisa --part1_157.15634f8a.2ad1ac58_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the info on what is considered acceptable for finishes.  I ask as I am in the middle of developing a small line of reproduction linen shirts/partlets, etc. with machine blackwork on them and I am new to the American re-enactment scene, although I know Australia's well.  I am weighing the cost to produce/accuracy factor myself at the moment. In promoting them, I am quite happy to give a full description so people know what they are getting, but I noticed that many other respected companies do not give details of the inner construction.  It seems to me people who care will ask, and for others it may be a case of too much information.  Is this an accurate appraisal of American re-enactor consumers?  I probably will go with the serged finishes myself unless people request otherwise I will out price most people who might be interested in embroidered garments! .

In Australia the 14th Brooklyn NYSM 's definition of levels of living history authenticity are being widely adopted and follow.  Is this a scale people here are familiar with?  Is it referred to at all?

Museum Quality: Design, materials and methods are identical to those of the time and place one is attempting to represent. As an example this would involve
copying an original garment down to the last stitch.

Acceptable Quality: Having one or more variations from museum quality, which does not significantly detract from its use in historic representation. This
might allow garments with a modern material lining or synthetic thread, but which have the exact look of the original

Marginal Quality: Having one or more variations from museum quality or subject to questionable interpretations of historic fact, which significantly detracts
from its use. The use of incorrect weight material, change in design or fit which are noticeable on close inspection, or incorrect materials for buttons, fall into this category.

Unacceptable: Anything which is unquestionably wrong, ie polyester materials, modern shirts, modern eyeglasses, wrist watches, chromed metals, mobile
phones, stay-brite buttons.



Thanks for your feedback.

Lisa

 --part1_157.15634f8a.2ad1ac58_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 12:54:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00387 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:54:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Gu33Y005098; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 10:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Gu17C003732; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 10:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Gta7C003636 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 10:55:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from RikWolff@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.18c.f5dd961 (3657) for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:55:30 -0400 (EDT) From: RikWolff@aol.com Message-ID: <18c.f5dd961.2ad1c502@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 Subject: [h-cost] I've made a spectacle of m(SNIP!) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:55:30 EDT Status: RO It seems that somewhere between me and you, there is a limitation on words I can email at a time. I had a big list of Qs and As, and now they're lost to the ether. Suffice it to say that my home page update may answer many questions, including the progress of my new models. If not, please ask them here, or directly at rikwolff@aol.com. Reijnier VerPlanck / Rick Wolff Spectacles by VerPlanck www.renspecs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 16:50:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01589 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:50:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Kp63Y014131; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Kp07C018676; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96KoB7C018469 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:50:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.f7.22ad0b13 (4568) for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:50:02 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f7.22ad0b13.2ad1fbfa_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] 8 Women Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:50:02 EDT Status: RO --part1_f7.22ad0b13.2ad1fbfa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know people from time to time comment on period films on this list. I saw the French "8 Women" this weekend. It was delightful and had wonderful 1950s costumes. The attention to detail was most impressive. Ann Wass --part1_f7.22ad0b13.2ad1fbfa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know people from time to time comment on period films on this list.  I saw the French "8 Women" this weekend.  It was delightful and had wonderful 1950s costumes.  The attention to detail was most impressive.
Ann Wass --part1_f7.22ad0b13.2ad1fbfa_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 16:52:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01610 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:52:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Ks13Y014206; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Ks07C019250; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f95.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Kr07C019031 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:52:54 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 20:52:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing Seams/costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2002 20:52:54.0968 (UTC) FILETIME=[5800CB80:01C26D7A] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 13:52:54 -0700 Status: RO > >While I create clothing that gives the wearer a historic siloheutte I do >not state outright that anything is historically accurate unless it is. > > >Historic accuracy to me means you create the garment as it would have been >created during the era it is duplicating, right down to the method of >stitches. I can not afford to hand sew garments that are replicating the >Tudor era and then be successful commercially. >Now if someone wishes an item to be completely historically correct they >let me know and >it is priced accordingly. > That is EXACTLY how I deal with these issues. I can weave the cordings for lace up gowns and hand sew buttonhole/eyelets, but most of the time the customer does not want to pay for the amount of time that all takes. I CAN make very authentic garments, but you have to specify that requirement and PAY for it. I've learned so much more about what is right and what will do on this list that now there is a defined difference in my thinking about authenticy vs. productivity/saleability. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 17:41:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01869 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:41:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Lh23Y015878; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Lh07C028967; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g96Lgh7C028914 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021006214243.54400.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 22:42:43 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:42:43 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > - wrong sides together, sew a straight seam > - trim one side of the seam allowance slightly, fold the other over towards > it > - flatten the seam allowance and top-stitch along the edge of the fold Hm, no, that's not what I mean actually. Gosh I hate it when I don't know all the English terms and probably never will. I though this time was French seams? definitely muddling things up here. I didn't mean clipping on one side, and don't mean sewing down either, but blindstitching it on. Oh dear, I won't even try any further explaining it. > Someone else mentioned shirts and shifts -- I'd like to point out > that, in my research for the Arcahaeological Sewing article, there > tended to be a clear distinction between the set of seam types used > for wool and the set used for linen. (Hem types were more similar > between the two.) Seams in wool often assumed the anti-ravelling > properties of that fabric, while seams in linen often involved > elaborate mechanisms to avoid leaving raw edges exposed in any way. Absolutely, and it is actually pretty liogical, even if bot knowing about seam types being used (mainly talking Anglo-Saxon 6th-8th c here, and earlier germanic bog finds) it just does not work! Linen seams just don't work on wool and vice versa. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 17:55:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01974 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:55:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Lv23Y016253; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Lv17C001973; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Lua7C001883 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3K00CT4YA8SB@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 14:56:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing Seams/costume In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021006143011.00ceea10@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 14:36:00 -0700 Status: RO You know the difference and, if the customer is willing to pay what your time is worth, you will spend the time. Sounds fair to me. I suppose you are also willing to let the customer do his/her own hand finishing (specifically buttonholes, but could be other) so they get it but they don't have to pay you to do it? >>While I create clothing that gives the wearer a historic siloheutte I do >>not state outright that anything is historically accurate unless it is. >> >> >>Historic accuracy to me means you create the garment as it would have >>been created during the era it is duplicating, right down to the method >>of stitches. I can not afford to hand sew garments that are replicating >>the Tudor era and then be successful commercially. >>Now if someone wishes an item to be completely historically correct they >>let me know and >>it is priced accordingly. >That is EXACTLY how I deal with these issues. I can weave the cordings >for lace up gowns and hand sew buttonhole/eyelets, but most of the time >the customer does not want to pay for the amount of time that all >takes. I CAN make very authentic garments, but you have to specify that >requirement and PAY for it. > >I've learned so much more about what is right and what will do on this >list that now there is a defined difference in my thinking about >authenticy vs. productivity/saleability. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 17:55:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01979 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:55:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96LvE3Y016269; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96LvE7C002019; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Lua7E001883 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3K00CT4YA8SB@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 14:56:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Sumptious Velvet Brocade Edwardian Jacket" on Ebay In-reply-to: <00fc01c26d38$678bb340$625183d1@rmitchellras> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021006143639.00ce6910@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <001601c26cab$7db7cc40$3a5d063e@dan> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 14:55:19 -0700 Status: RO >Greetings again. This piece is certainly the turn of the 19th Century. One >of the fashion ideas of the time was to was to reflect the modes of the >Renaissance, which this piece certainly does It has been modified perhaps >for theater, as has been suggested. The fur is an add on, including the >beaded embellishments. The satin bands have been obviously been added to >enlarge the waist, and this has also changed the front fastening. I know about the Renaissance influence of which you speak. That's where we get terms like 'van dyked' for lace in zig-zag points. But I think this jacket stopped being Victorian/Edwardian a while ago, and now qualifies as 'mixed media'. I am very fond of Victorian/Edwardian-does-Renaissance, as it happens. I recently posted about an e-bay set of garments which were Edwardian-made for some Renaissance theatrical use. Somewhere on the figurative back burner I have an 1880s theatrical costume photo I'd really like to recreate and wear. It is a charming mix of periods, with a stomacher, puff-and-slash shoulders and elbows, lace frills on the shoulder-edges of the neckline like Emperess Josephine might have worn, and a potholder-like thing on the head a' la Marie Stuart. The the lines of the dress are otherwise very 1880s, as is the hair of the wearer. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 18:10:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02091 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:10:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96MC43Y016862; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96MC17C005026; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96MBk7C004963 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:11:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021006221145.IRBD17202.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:11:45 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams Message-ID: <3DA0C32F.26506.629891A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021006214243.54400.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:11:43 +0100 Status: RO On 6 Oct 2002 at 22:42, N Kipar wrote: > Hm, no, that's not what I mean actually. Gosh I hate it when I don't > know all the English terms and probably never will. I though this time > was French seams? definitely muddling things up here. I didn't mean > clipping on one side, and don't mean sewing down either, but > blindstitching it on. Oh dear, I won't even try any further explaining > it. This got me all confused, since I thought French and felled were the same. So I went and looked in a book (!) RTFM, and so on, as I say to my users. Run & Fell seam: start right sides together, one edge longer than the other, fold the overlap down to touch the first line of stitches, iron flat, hem into place. French seam: start with *wrong* side together and the same length. Do first line of stitches. Fold the other way along the join, and do another line of stitches so as to enclose the raw edges. The result isn't flat. Oh, and the next one listed is a "mantua makers seam". Put right sides together, edges level. And do a hem with both pieces together, making sure your stitches go through all layers of the double material. Looks like a French seam when done. So I've learnt something new today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 18:33:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02226 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:33:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96MZ13Y017746; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96MZ07C009430; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96MYv7C009410 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:34:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.247.138.165.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.247.138.165]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17yJzD-00016x-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 15:34:56 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maria Theresia Dress From: Nadine Pelikan To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002e01c26d2d$ff598d10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g96MYv7C009410 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 15:34:02 -0700 Status: RO Bjarne, I think the portrait you are referring to can be found on pg. 10 of _Lace the Elegant Web_ by Janine Montupet and Ghislaine Schoeller. The portrait was painted by Martin Van Meytens in 1744. The dress was given to the Empress by Flanders in 1744. This portrait is supposed to hang in the Museum of Art, Ghent. Nadine Pelikan on 10/6/02 4:46 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews at drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > Hello. > The arachne lace list i am on, is disgussing a dress portraied in a painting > of Maria Theresia. > I thoaght, when i am on a costume list to pass on the question. > There is a portrait of Empress Maria Theresia of Austria (Marie Antoinettes > mother) at Schönbrunn in Wienna. > she is wearing a specktakular court dress where the skirt wich is over a > huge panier has beautifull beautifull laces applyed to the fabric. Not in > ruches and not gathered or pleated, but applyed so that the lace comes to > its best look. > I think the portrait is in Santina Levey's huge book about the history of > lace. > Well i mostly have costume books, and i wondered is there a costume book > where this portrait would be in? > Or is there an online place where i could se this? > The arachne list wondered if any know what happened to this dress, it would > have presented a vast fortune. > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 18:39:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02256 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:39:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Mf13Y018018; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Mf17C010670; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96Mee7C010600 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.247.138.165.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.247.138.165]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17yK4m-0000I3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 15:40:40 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maria Theresia Dress From: Nadine Pelikan To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002e01c26d2d$ff598d10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 15:39:47 -0700 Status: RO Bjarne, Here is a URL for Meyten's, the lace dress portrait is the fourth down. Nadine http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/m/meytens/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 18:59:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02365 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:59:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96N173Y019069; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96N167C015370; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96N0b7C015215 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:00:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1aa.9b7a426 (4262) for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:00:31 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <1aa.9b7a426.2ad21a8e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing Seams/costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1aa.9b7a426.2ad21a8e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:00:30 EDT Status: RO --part1_1aa.9b7a426.2ad21a8e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So it sounds to me like it would come to no surprise to a US re-enactor to find that his/her historical inspired or well researched garment had serged seams on the inside. Correct? Lisa --part1_1aa.9b7a426.2ad21a8e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So it sounds to me like it would come to no surprise to a US re-enactor to find that his/her historical inspired or well researched garment had serged seams on the inside.  Correct? 

Lisa --part1_1aa.9b7a426.2ad21a8e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 19:04:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02400 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:04:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96N613Y019327; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96N607C016502; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g96N5F7C016305 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p4.directcon.net [206.170.184.103]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g96N4ikk004149; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:04:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021006160929.0083ca00@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: impressive commercial site In-Reply-To: <3D9F8287.C72C210F@dandy.net> References: <153.15503a2c.2ad0ae41@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 16:09:29 -0700 Status: RO At 08:23 PM 10/05/2002 -0400, leigh tartaglio wrote: >Hi. Your best bet is to contact Gwen personally (she's the clothing >person in the business), but I believe that she does serging for the >inside seams of some of her products. Yes, when I last saw her work several years ago, she was using serging on seams that don't show from the outside. However, she welcomes custom orders, and will, for a price, make it as authentic as you like, up to and including completely handstitching the garment. Just be prepared for that price to be one that really makes it worth her while! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 21:23:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03203 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:23:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g971P43Y026131; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g971P07C016005; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g971Ox7C015996 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:24:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31157 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:29:25 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] OT: Do you know this person? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:29:24 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Can anyone identify this address: This person's computer is infected with klez, and I've been getting infected emails from him/her for weeks now. Direct emails to this address go unanswered, and I can't locate it on any search engines I've tried. I'm apparently in the addressbooks of a lot of people I don't know personally, mostly because of my posts to mailing lists like this. That lets me in for a lot of Klez emails, which pick victims out of the infected person's addressbook. I'm pretty sure this person doesn't know about the infection, because the virus mails keep coming. (This is of course not the address in the bogus "From" lines, which change with every mail; it's in the hidden headers.) So I'm hoping this person is on h-cost, or that someone here recognizes this address, so I can get in touch with him/her. Thanks, and now I return you to your regularly scheduled costume discussion. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 22:24:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03413 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972Q33Y029171; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972Q07C028898; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972PF7C028753 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:25:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3L005S0APYNW@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 19:25:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing Seams/costume In-reply-to: <1aa.9b7a426.2ad21a8e@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021006190056.04e27d00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 19:24:26 -0700 Status: RO >So it sounds to me like it would come to no surprise to a US re-enactor to >find that his/her historical inspired or well researched garment had >serged seams on the inside. Correct? I would say yes to that. Most of the serious costumers I know have sergers, which they got to make costume seams easier. In fact, the only time it really matters what your seams look like on the inside is when you have to show them to a workmanship judge at a CostumeCon. Short of that, who is ever going to see them? I happen to like hand-stitched hand-finished seams, and since I am unemployed I have the time to do them. While this means I can't afford the services of a pro-costumer, I can't fault their hourly rate, having spent that many hours on my own costumes. When I win the lottery, I will never sew my own costumes again - I'll offer to set my favourite costumer up in a shop somewhere and pay her to make them for me. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 22:40:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03470 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:40:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972g33Y029762; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972g07C002298; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972fM7C002110 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.150.1559ab86 (25305) for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:41:12 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <150.1559ab86.2ad24e48@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_150.1559ab86.2ad24e48_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Subject: [h-cost] money laundering/costume shop Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:41:12 EDT Status: RO --part1_150.1559ab86.2ad24e48_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/6/02 7:27:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > I'll offer to set my favourite costumer up in a > shop somewhere and pay her to make them for me Hey, I shall keep you in mind if my current plan to attract a business partner with a need to launder money fails. LS --part1_150.1559ab86.2ad24e48_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/6/02 7:27:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes:


I'll offer to set my favourite costumer up in a
shop somewhere and pay her to make them for me


Hey,  I shall keep you in mind if my current plan to attract a business partner with a need to launder money fails.

LS --part1_150.1559ab86.2ad24e48_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 22:45:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03484 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:45:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972l13Y000110; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972l07C003295; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972kH7C003143 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.173] (pm5-173.eos.net [205.133.149.173]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16604 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:46:14 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021006180007.15750.3448.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: commercial site Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 22:44:29 -0400 Status: RO I don't remember what the seam finishes of Historic Enterprises garments are, although I do know there are no visible machine stitches anywhere on the garment exterior. They are finished -- I will check out my husband's hosen and braes and report back tomorrow. But the garments I looked at extensively were all entirely lined, so I couldn't see the seam finishes. They are not museum replicas, though, and so they are not sewn by hand. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 22:49:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03496 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:49:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972p13Y000277; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972p07C004016; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g972o97C003868 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 20:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A73BEBBE00DC; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 21:53:47 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A74ED4100D2; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 21:54:06 -0500 Message-ID: <005201c26dac$50ae5500$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Do you know this person? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:50:37 -0400 Status: RO Robin, Virus picks up on unopened email and address book. Most likely who ever is sending the virus is not the email address that you see. I get between 15-20 viruses sent to me a day. I hardly ever recognize the email address. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historic Costume List" Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 9:29 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT: Do you know this person? > > Can anyone identify this address: > > > > This person's computer is infected with klez, and I've been getting > infected emails from him/her for weeks now. Direct emails to this address > go unanswered, and I can't locate it on any search engines I've tried. > > I'm apparently in the addressbooks of a lot of people I don't know > personally, mostly because of my posts to mailing lists like this. That > lets me in for a lot of Klez emails, which pick victims out of the > infected person's addressbook. > > I'm pretty sure this person doesn't know about the infection, because the > virus mails keep coming. (This is of course not the address in the bogus > "From" lines, which change with every mail; it's in the hidden headers.) > So I'm hoping this person is on h-cost, or that someone here recognizes > this address, so I can get in touch with him/her. > > Thanks, and now I return you to your regularly scheduled costume > discussion. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 23:01:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03529 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:01:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g973323Y000717; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g973317C006115; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9732K7C006002 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:02:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31480 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:06:46 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Do you know this person? In-Reply-To: <005201c26dac$50ae5500$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:06:46 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Virus picks up on unopened email and address book. Most likely who > ever is sending the virus is not the email address that you see. I > get between 15-20 viruses sent to me a day. I hardly ever recognize > the email address. Yes, I know how Klez works. But as I said, perhaps not too clearly, my email program enables me to read the hidden headers and determine the actual computer of origin of the infected messages. I've gotten about 10 messages in the last week or two that have this particular computer in the origin headers, though the visible "From" line is always a different name (another random address from the person's addressbook). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 6 23:25:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03611 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:25:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g973R23Y001976; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g973R07C011060; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g973QY7C010956 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:26:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.189.36.255] (HELO [192.168.1.103]) by dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 3305472; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 23:26:28 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: amandaf@pop.charter.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: sustre@pixelations.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Do you know this person? Cc: Robin Netherton Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:26:21 -0400 Status: RO I get a number of those, too, and have had a few "offenders" that have become such a nuisance I had to do something about it- like the ones who sent me between 10 and 17 infected emails a day, with over a meg of attachments! The only thing that's seemed to work for me is this: look up the domain in the email and find out who owns the ISP it's on. Go to the ISP's site and poke around until you find their "Acceptable Use Policy". Write to the ISP and tell them that one of their customers is sending you bunches of unsolicited infected mail, and quote the parts of their policy that this is violating. Paste in a copy of the header with the person's email address and the tracking info. Repeat with every new piece you get from this person. So far this has worked for the handful of people where it's become a real problem. I'll add that without using pretty strong language, and quoting their policy back to them, they tended to brush me off. Using words like "harassment" and "interfering with my business email" seemed to get their attention, but using the language in their own policy and attributing it to the appropriate section etc. was vital, as was asking them to enforce it. I've really hated to have to do this, especially since I know it's all virus-driven and so in a sense not their fault. But in some cases, there's no other option- it's just too much, for too long, and no end in sight. Hope this helps... -Amanda Fisher _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 01:41:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04039 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:41:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g975h33Y010433; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g975h07C007318; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g975gI7C007190 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:42:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AF93FE88013A; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:45:55 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AFA92AEC00D0; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:46:17 -0500 Message-ID: <017101c26dc4$582da840$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Class Updates Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:42:37 -0400 Status: RO We have two classes starting this week at the Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com : ***Propriety, Plain and Fancy: Victorian and Edwardian Fashions from Bustle to Gibson Girl (Marna Jean's class) ***The 1660s: Restoration Costume Comes to Life (Nicole's class) Janice P. Ryan will be keeping her Strapless Stays AND Pet-en-lair Gown classes open until Nov. 15. So you can still sign up and start the classes today. Drea's 16th Century Women January 2003 class is full. No more students will be added to this class. January will be the last time Drea will teach this class. She is developing a new class about Lower Class 16th Century Women for Sept. 2003. Look for when we announce it. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 03:14:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19308 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 03:14:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g977G23Y013071; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g977G07C023435; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f34.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g977FD7C023282 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:15:08 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 07:15:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing Seams/costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2002 07:15:08.0257 (UTC) FILETIME=[44609D10:01C26DD1] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:15:07 -0700 Status: RO I would be more than happy to let someone else who is willing to, make their own handwork finishes. I would even adjust pricing to reflect an unfinished product. I guess that way, people who can do a little sewing would still get complex garments and still be able to have the pride of having done (what I consider)the worst part on their own. >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >You know the difference and, if the customer is willing to pay what your >time is worth, you will spend the time. Sounds fair to me. I suppose you >are also willing to let the customer do his/her own hand finishing >(specifically buttonholes, but could be other) so they get it but they >don't have to pay you to do it? > >>That is EXACTLY how I deal with these issues. I can weave the cordings >>for lace up gowns and hand sew buttonhole/eyelets, but most of the time >>the customer does not want to pay for the amount of time that all takes. >>I CAN make very authentic garments, but you have to specify that >>requirement and PAY for it. >> >>I've learned so much more about what is right and what will do on this >>list that now there is a defined difference in my thinking about >>authenticy vs. productivity/saleability. > > >Kayta Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 03:15:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20145 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 03:15:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g977H03Y013103; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g977H07C023586; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g977Gi7C023543 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:16:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021007071644.1262.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:16:44 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] flat-felled seams To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DA0C32F.26506.629891A@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:16:44 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Jane Williams wrote: > > This got me all confused, since I thought French and > felled were the same. So I went and looked in a book > (!) RTFM, and so on, as I say to my users. Thanks Jane! *G* > Run & Fell seam: start right sides together, one edge > longer than the other, fold the overlap down to touch > the first line of stitches, iron flat, hem into place. Ahhh! Okay, yes, I do mean run & fell then, but I never clip one side or start with one being longer, and I would never use a machine to sew it down, where's the poin, it's visible then! I always blindstitch by hand very carefully down. Anyway, you got me thinking, maybe I will do a run & fell on my Queen shift and farthingale which I all got out at Teddy's yesterday. Oh, and he made the corset pattern to fit for me. Updates on the diary with piccie *G* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 03:20:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26171 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 03:20:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g977M43Y013221; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g977M07C024512; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f86.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g977LG7C024373 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:21:11 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 07:21:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing Seams/costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2002 07:21:11.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CC41F10:01C26DD2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:21:11 -0700 Status: RO When I win >the lottery, I will never sew my own costumes again - I'll offer to set my >favourite costumer up in a shop somewhere and pay her to make them for me. > >Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > When I win, (notice the positive attitude here?)I will buy myself that shop and make everything I've ever dreamed of and NOT worry for one second about being able to sell it to someone thereby paying for the next project. I would probably donate them to schools, theaters, etc. just so I would have room to make more. ;) OK, If I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream BIG!! Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 10:10:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21172 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:10:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97EB83Y026183; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97EB07C011554; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12001.mail.yahoo.com (web12001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g97EAl7C011486 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021007141047.62760.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.207] by web12001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 07:10:47 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] seam finishes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I'll add my two cents worth on seam finishes on professionally made costumes. I see serger finishes alot and for the most part have really mixed feelings about them. Since I do do my own work I understand the time versus money angle....but have seen some serger finishes that have pulled off the edge of the fabric. Sometimes the seam allowances are cut so narrow to accomodate the seam and overcast in one stitch (sorry, don't know what it's called) that the seams pull out and then fray. I realize this doesn't usually happen on wool but some of the brocades and other slick fabrics which fray easily really need deeper seam allowances. I always recommend to people to ask what type of seam finishes they're getting when they order something. For the museum reproductions we can use a sewing machine as our period is late enough for that but the seam finishes were still done by hand at that time (1840s), particularly the curved seams. The use of selvedges does eliminate some of the hand finishing, saves fabric and is period. I haven't found evidence of machine finished seams in my museum's clothing collection, which is very small, does anyone know when finishing seams with a second row of stitching 1/8th inch away from the seam came into use? Cassandra (back from the land of the almost dead with bronchitis) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 11:04:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22105 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 11:04:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97F553Y000165; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97F517C004003; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from WDNE2K.mackie.com ([12.144.236.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97F4A7C003567 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:04:11 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Colored linen in the 14th century? Thread-Index: AcJuEo/pBmm9bYhLSQGkm/x44o/Stg== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g97F4A7C003567 Subject: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:02:32 -0700 Status: RO Hi all, While researching this weekend, I came across several interesting comments and things relating to our recent discussion of whether colored linen was available and used prior to the 16th century. The Plictho from 1548 documents dyeing recipes for linen, but no one on the list had seen evidence/citations prior to this, if I remember correctly. (And I may not, it is still early and I haven't had enough caffeine yet.) There were several quotes that I came across is the Museum of London Textiles and Clothing this weekend that seemed to hint at the possibility of colored linen. On page 96, "...this argues against the use of linen thread, which was frequently left undyed," which tantalizingly seems to imply that it *might* have been dyed. Then, on page 151, "Linen thread supplied to the Wardrobe came in a variety of colors," - it could be natural color variation, but that doesn't seem to be what's implied here. Then, while tracking down one of the references, I found a citation for *black* linen thread: plate 159 Linen cloth with Lower Saxon coats-of-arms and mythical beasts in hexagonal frames formed of roses and fleur-de-lys. Kloster Isenhagen, second quarter of the 14th century 121 x 165 cm Hexagon: 41.5 cm Linen. White and *black( linen thread; strongly twisted woolen thread in red, green, yellow and blue. Brick, couching and stem stitches: satin stitch forming patterns. (emphasis mine) Lit.: M. Schuette, Gestickte Bildteppiche des Mittelalters, Leipzig 1930, II, p. 41, Pl. 25 - von Falke in Pantheon VIII, (1931), p.371. This was in the Schuette book - Schuette, Marie and Sigrid Muller-Christensen, A Pictorial History of Embroidery, Frederick A. Praeger, New York, 1964. I checked the other embroideries in this section of the book, but this was the only one that specifically mentioned colored linen thread. It may sound like a silly question, but is there any chance this could have occurred naturally? If not, then do we conclude that there was *some* way to dye linen during this time? Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 12:47:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22866 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:47:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97Gm73Y010224; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97Gm0IO000238; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97GlQIO029828 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:47:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip141.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.141]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g97GlI411200 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:47:19 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Message-ID: <3DA158E7.24966.E882969@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 09:50:31 -0700 Status: RO > While researching this weekend, I came across several interesting > comments and things relating to our recent discussion of whether > colored linen was available and used prior to the 16th century. The > Plictho from 1548 documents dyeing recipes for linen, but no one on > the list had seen evidence/citations prior to this, if I remember > correctly. (And I may not, it is still early and I haven't had enough > caffeine yet.) Part of this is because we didn't have access to books discussing dyes prior to the 16th C. (Had something to do with the invention of the printing press just before then.) > There were several quotes that I came across is the Museum of London > Textiles and Clothing this weekend that seemed to hint at the > possibility of colored linen. On page 96, "...this argues against the > use of linen thread, which was frequently left undyed," which > tantalizingly seems to imply that it *might* have been dyed. Then, on > page 151, "Linen thread supplied to the Wardrobe came in a variety of > colors," - it could be natural color variation, but that doesn't seem > to be what's implied here. One of the reasons why it had always been assumed that it was white or offwhite thread that was always used is because so often the extant garments were stitched with thread which appeared to be that color. *Appeared* is the operative word here, because when they actually test the threads they are finding that there are remnants of dyestuffs in them. One of the biggest examples is the Civil War garments stitched with off white thread. It turns out that most of them were actually stitched with logwood dyed thread, but logwood on linen fades out to a brown, grey or off white color. > Then, while tracking down one of the references, I found a citation > for *black* linen thread: > > plate 159 > Linen cloth with Lower Saxon coats-of-arms and mythical beasts in > hexagonal frames formed of roses and fleur-de-lys. Kloster Isenhagen, > second quarter of the 14th century 121 x 165 cm Hexagon: 41.5 cm > Linen. White and *black( linen thread; strongly twisted woolen thread > in red, green, yellow and blue. Brick, couching and stem stitches: > satin stitch forming patterns. (emphasis mine) Lit.: M. Schuette, > Gestickte Bildteppiche des Mittelalters, Leipzig 1930, II, p. 41, Pl. > 25 - von Falke in Pantheon VIII, (1931), p.371. > > This was in the Schuette book - Schuette, Marie and Sigrid > Muller-Christensen, A Pictorial History of Embroidery, Frederick A. > Praeger, New York, 1964. > > I checked the other embroideries in this section of the book, but this > was the only one that specifically mentioned colored linen thread. > > It may sound like a silly question, but is there any chance this could > have occurred naturally? If not, then do we conclude that there was > *some* way to dye linen during this time? While you can get some coloring naturally, (such as madder fed sheep, I'm told), I suspect that the threads were dyed. We just don't have the documentation for how they did it like we do from later periods such as the 16th C (era of the explosion of printed material). However, linen doesn't hold the dye as well as silk or wool, so unless tested for the dyestuffs we wouldn't be able to tell by looking at them. So, I guess we need to look in textile archeology sources where they have tested the fibres for dyestuff for our "documentation." Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 14:08:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23157 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97I943Y017483; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97I90IO016409; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97I8HIO015997 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-119-64.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.119.64]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALR47635; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 19:06:10 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00a301c26e2d$08201860$d8734ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DA158E7.24966.E882969@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 19:11:50 +0100 Status: RO >(such as madder fed sheep, I'm told), Do you have anything further on this ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 16:41:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23821 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:41:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97Kg33Y000538; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97Kg1IO016303; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97KfLIO015785 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip57.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.57]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g97KfEm16165 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:41:14 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Message-ID: <3DA18FB8.3067.F5E5069@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00a301c26e2d$08201860$d8734ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 13:44:24 -0700 Status: RO > >(such as madder fed sheep, > I'm told), > > Do you have anything further on this ? > Mel I've read about it, but in what of any of several dozens of books on dyestuffs and/or wool I found it in, I have no idea. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 17:08:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24018 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97L973Y002957; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97L91Ga004001; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12004.mail.yahoo.com (web12004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g97L8AGa003537 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:08:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021007210810.42052.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.245] by web12004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 14:08:10 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] costume classes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Could someone give me some more information on Penny's costume classes. They sound interesting but my time comes in fits and starts such that I'm reluctant to commit to too many things with inflexible deadlines. Could I take a class and download or bookmark each lesson until such time as I can get to them? I might be able to do one lesson a week for a few weeks and then not be able to pick it up for a month or more and then do two or three lessons on one of those weekends when I can't get my sleep to flip. Any info would be great. Can I access (ie pay for) older lessons and do them at my own speed? Thanks. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 18:17:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24395 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:17:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97MIL3Y008777; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97MIKGa009248; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97MH2Ga008527 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.114] (as3-4-128.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.114]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g97MH0005679 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1aa.9b7a426.2ad21a8e@aol.com> References: <1aa.9b7a426.2ad21a8e@aol.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finishing Seams/costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g97MH2Ga008527 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:17:23 -0700 Status: RO At 7:00 PM -0400 10/6/02, LSinervo@aol.com wrote: >So it sounds to me like it would come to no surprise to a US >re-enactor to find that his/her historical inspired or well >researched garment had serged seams on the inside. Correct?  I think this would be a correct assessment. For me, the important thing in commercial garments is for the seller/maker to be knowledgeable and honest about what they are doing. I am much more wary of a vendor who doesn't seem to _know_ what commercial compromises and shortcuts they're taking than one who says explicitly something like, "The standard version of this item uses modern sewing in all non-visible situations -- a version with historically accurate stitching is available by special order [at a commensurately higher price]". I, personally as a consumer, would tend to expect that the highest level of accuracy that is _not_ done by special order would be "accuracy in externally visible details". Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 18:17:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24397 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:17:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97MI23Y008762; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97MI1Ga009083; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97MH0Ga008507 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.114] (as3-4-128.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.114]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g97MGw005604 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:06:47 -0700 Status: RO At 8:02 AM -0700 10/7/02, Colleen McDonald wrote: >It may sound like a silly question, but is there any chance this >could have occurred naturally? If not, then do we conclude that >there was *some* way to dye linen during this time? This topic comes up periodically, and a handful of anecdotal examples of colored linen can be offered. For example, the lining of the "Satin coat of Charles the Bold" (15th c.) is a very dark (gray or black) linen, as can be seen in the color photos in Mechthild Flury-Lemberg's "Textile Conservation and Research". Similarly, photos of the linen lining of one of the Golden Fleece vestments in "The Conservation of Tapestries and Embroideries" show it to be a pale salmon-orangey-pink color. These aren't the only anecdotal examples that can be listed. The question that arises is not simply, "_could_ linen be dyed in the middle ages?" but more complexly "under what conditions does dyed linen appear to have been used, and when does it appear not to have been used?" Extrapolating from a black linen lining to a black linen chemise, for example, strikes me as implausible, given the uniform portrayal of chemises in art as white. How relevant is it that the two examples above are as lining fabrics in garments that would not have been laundered -- thus removing light and laundry, the two factors most likely to quickly degrade color in linen? At any rate, it isn't an all-or-nothing question -- that either they didn't have any colored linen, or that colored linen was freely interchangeable with uncolored. This situation lends it self to over-simplification when trying to educate people about medieval textiles and garments, and the over-simplification that is closest to the truth is "they didn't use colored linen". That this oversimplification can be demonstrated to be false should not lead people to concluding that the opposite oversimplification is true. Heather (who collects examples of medieval colored linen, but generally avoids promulating them) -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 18:30:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24462 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:30:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97MW23Y009894; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97MW0Ga016329; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-ext-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-ext-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g97MVwGa016297 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20420 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2002 22:31:56 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-94.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.166.66.94) by smtp1.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 2002 22:31:56 -0000 Message-ID: <001c01c26e50$4dc9b920$5e42a6d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: <20021007141047.62760.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] seam finishes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:24:04 -0400 Status: RO but have seen some > serger finishes that have pulled off the edge of the > fabric. Sometimes the seam allowances are cut so > narrow to accomodate the seam and overcast in one > stitch (sorry, don't know what it's called) that the > seams pull out and then fray. This just happened to me with a fairly new linen gown that I am quite pleased with otherwise. I discovered at an event this weekend that the back of the armhole seam had come apart on the right side (since it was rather cold, I kept a houplande on over it all day so no one could see it, but in warmer weather, I wear it alone.) Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 19:35:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24734 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 19:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97Na23Y019260; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97Na0Ga019251; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g97NZIGa018959 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3M00CCMXIR3C@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 16:35:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] seam finishes In-reply-to: <001c01c26e50$4dc9b920$5e42a6d0@default> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021007163336.00c90ec0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20021007141047.62760.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 16:35:01 -0700 Status: RO >but have seen some > > serger finishes that have pulled off the edge of the > > fabric. Sometimes the seam allowances are cut so > > narrow to accomodate the seam and overcast in one > > stitch (sorry, don't know what it's called) that the > > seams pull out and then fray. > >This just happened to me with a fairly new linen gown that I am quite >pleased with otherwise. I discovered at an event this weekend that the back >of the armhole seam had come apart on the right side (since it was rather >cold, I kept a houplande on over it all day so no one could see it, but in >warmer weather, I wear it alone.) (Off the point entirely, and trying to be funny,) But aren't mends and patches period? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 20:40:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25116 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:40:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g980g43Y023031; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g980g0Ga010226; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12008.mail.yahoo.com (web12008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.216]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g980fdGa010131 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021008004139.72216.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.218] by web12008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 17:41:39 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] I got into trouble with a Regency Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO My inate volunteerism has gotten me into trouble. I now need to recreate a Regency outfit from the skin out for a research project for a friend who writes regency romances. As her heroines are usually from the upper class I also need to figure out what would be appropriate for a lady's genteel needlework and what she would have done by a dressmaker. Websites? Books? Artwork? Help? Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 20:49:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25152 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:49:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g980p13Y023532; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g980p0Ga013057; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g980oIGa012862 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a262.in-tch.com [66.62.107.62]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g980ZGL04084 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DA22D45.EBA7C90B@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:56:37 -0600 Status: RO Uh...without being able to pull out any actual, scholarly cites or anything (it was one of THOSE Mondays), what about the sumptuary/regulatory laws I've heard of in reference to "saffron shirts" for those people living in Ireland during certain periods of British rule? I've always assumed they'd be linen, but I suppose they could be a fine wool. Does anyone know? Mind you, I'm assuming that the *color* is saffron-ish, not the dye stuff. We've been experimenting this summer, and you can get some amazingly potent yellows and golds with tansy, or dandelion, or weld. --Sue Heather Rose Jones wrote: > The question that arises is not simply, > "_could_ linen be dyed in the middle ages?" but more complexly "under > what conditions does dyed linen appear to have been used, and when > does it appear not to have been used?" > > Extrapolating from a black linen lining to a black linen chemise, for > example, strikes me as implausible, given the uniform portrayal of > chemises in art as white. How relevant is it that the two examples > above are as lining fabrics in garments that would not have been > laundered -- thus removing light and laundry, the two factors most > likely to quickly degrade color in linen? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 22:11:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25480 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:11:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g982D53Y028074; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g982D1Ga006368; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g982CZGa006260 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:12:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.17]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3N004FQ4SYKJ@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 19:12:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] I got into trouble with a Regency In-reply-to: <20021008004139.72216.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021007182744.00cec100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:28:31 -0700 Status: RO Check out the Jane Austin Society website, wherever your search engine says it is. >My inate volunteerism has gotten me into trouble. I >now need to recreate a Regency outfit from the skin >out for a research project for a friend who writes >regency romances. As her heroines are usually from >the upper class I also need to figure out what would >be appropriate for a lady's genteel needlework and >what she would have done by a dressmaker. Websites? >Books? Artwork? Help? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 22:41:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25628 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:41:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g982h33Y029586; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g982h1Ga014341; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g982gfGa014258 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:42:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phil1181.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.136.181]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g982gcb5017719 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:42:39 -0400 Message-ID: <3DA24365.1EB3C73A@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? References: <3DA22D45.EBA7C90B@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 22:31:01 -0400 Status: RO Hi. I'm guessing that the name of the shirt, "leine croich", if I understand my translation correctly, refers to the linen (leine) dyed with the saffron crocus (Croich). As with all linen dyes, due to the structure of the fabric, the dye is somewhat fugitive. I don't know, however, if this applies, as I don't remember references to Scots/Irish yellow leines prior to the 16th Cent. The answer to "could linen be dyed?" is certainly an emphatic "yes!" Under what conditions was dyed linen used, and when, is certainly the more difficult question. I have heard of men's lined hose being used in the late 15th-early 16th Cent., but there is no true indication of which I know to indicate what material was used for the lining, or whether or not it was dyed to match the outer layer if indeed it was linen. For this info, you might want to contact Gerry Embleton or John Howe with the Companie of St. George, who are doing much more in-depth research in this area. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 23:43:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25881 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:43:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g983jR3Y003086; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g983jPGa002559; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g983iGGa002213 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05004 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:48:47 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: <3DA24365.1EB3C73A@dandy.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:48:47 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO Heather wrote: > The question that arises is not simply, "_could_ linen be dyed in the > middle ages?" but more complexly "under what conditions does dyed > linen appear to have been used, and when does it appear not to have > been used?" and, similarly, Mike wrote: > The answer to "could linen be dyed?" is certainly an emphatic "yes!" > Under what conditions was dyed linen used, and when, is certainly the > more difficult question. And that's the crux of it for me, too. I'm one of the people who's asked about dyed linen on this list, periodically over several years now, and whenever I hear of an extant linen garment or a written reference to a linen garment, my first question is "Is it white or dyed?" My interest isn't in dyeing per se, but rather in the issue of whether linen was used for the visible layers of body garments (e.g. gowns, tunics) in medieval Western Europe. There's no question linen was used for undergarments (e.g. chemises, shirts), bed linens, table linens, towels, aprons, sacking, wrappings, and many other purposes, but these are all things that are normally assumed to be white or undyed. Linen is also listed in documents as a lining, and (as Heather notes) appears in extant garments as a lining (sometimes dyed! thanks, Heather). But whether it was used as what people today call the "fashion fabric" of garments -- there's the issue. I keep coming back to this question because people seem to assume that since wool and linen were the two common fibers of the period, people were as likely to make their gowns from linen as from wool, with linen the default for warm weather. Naturally, re-enactors in much of the US would prefer linen gowns over wool ones because of the weather, and so there's a preponderance of linen clothing in a wide range of colors and styles at many medieval re-enactments and events. But as people ask me what fabrics I recommend for gowns of various sorts, I can't say with any certainty that linen is a viable choice because I still haven't seen any strong evidence of linen for that use. There's probably an example or three out there, but at this point it would take a fair lot of evidence to balance the huge absence of it I've seen so far. Where I haven't looked is documents, which could be very fruitful: textile guild regulations, property use laws, import/export records, inventories ... but I'm not a primary documents researcher and am unlikely to have the sort of time and access to do serious primary work in that area anytime soon. So, why my interest in dyed linen? Because if there were evidence to suggest that linen was dyed frequently and in large quantities and in many colors, that would suggest that this fabric was a likely candidate for non-underwear garments. If there is little or no evidence of dyed linen cloth, that suggests that it's unlikely many garments were made with linen as the outer fabric. I wouldn't base an argument on either line of thought, but it's a useful avenue for supporting material ... particularly since information on cloth sometimes includes references to the use of the cloth. So for my purposes, a reference to colored linen thread doesn't tell me anything one way or another except to confirm that there was technology to dye linen thread. That would be useful in its own right -- for sewing and embroidery -- but it doesn't indicate whether they were using dyed linen thread to make cloth for garments, or using the same techniques to dye linen cloth for garments. In fact, I find it interesting that this conversation has turned up references to dyed linen thread for embroidery, dyed linen thread for seams, and dyed linen fabric for linings. Given all that, the apparent absence of linen for the outer layer of garments may well reflect a deliberate medieval preference for wool as the visible fabric (better wearing, better color retention, seams less likely to ravel, etc.) and linen as an option for structural support (in the linings). That's consistent to some references I've seen to wool tunics lined with either wool or linen, but not linen/wool or linen/linen. It's similar to the cotton situation -- we find references and extant examples of cotton thread for various uses, cotton fabric used for embroidery grounds, cotton for bed hangings and cushions -- but not much (if any) cotton in *wear* on the body for most of the Middle Ages, north of Italy at least. (Though there's cotton used as a mix in fabrics such as fustian, and cotton used as padding or stuffing in garments.) So they had cotton available, but apparently chose not to use it for this purpose. This makes intuitive sense to me, given that I've found that the clothing construction methods I have developed as my best-guess at period practice work quite nicely in wool and linen but are a royal pain in cotton. Makes me wonder if they had the same experience. So when it comes to what to tell the people who ask me whether it's authentic to make their gowns in linen, I'm with Heather, who wrote: > At any rate, it isn't an all-or-nothing question -- that either they > didn't have any colored linen, or that colored linen was freely > interchangeable with uncolored. This situation lends it self to > over-simplification when trying to educate people about medieval > textiles and garments, and the over-simplification that is closest to > the truth is "they didn't use colored linen". That this > oversimplification can be demonstrated to be false should not lead > people to concluding that the opposite oversimplification is true. And, like Heather, I'm reluctant to point to the few appearances we have of dyed linen in certain limited uses in clothing because I don't want to suggest it's then safe to extrapolate to lots of dyed linen in a much broader range of uses. Better to oversimplify in the direction of what seems to be the truth -- that as far as we can tell, linen was not a routine choice for a garment's outer fabric. --Robin writing a long post, as usual, because I don't have time to write a short one _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 7 23:44:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25885 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:44:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g983k13Y003135; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g983k1Ga002742; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g983jmGa002647 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.180.f13baeb (4410) for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:45:37 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <180.f13baeb.2ad3aee1@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_180.f13baeb.2ad3aee1_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:45:37 EDT Status: RO --part1_180.f13baeb.2ad3aee1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 8:06:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com writes: > The Plictho from 1548 documents dyeing recipes for linen, but no one on the > list had seen evidence/citations prior to this, if I remember correctly. In Colors - The Story of Dyes and Pigments by Francois Delamare and Bernard Guineau states that "We do know that the madder plant was used to dye the red linen textiles found in the Old Kingdom tombs of the Nile valley. Safflower, a source of red and pink, has been identified among the seeds found in the tomb of Tutankhamun. Should we trust ancient texts? Pliny the Elder, a 1st-century AD Roman encyclopedias, wrote a Natural History in which he reports that the Egyptian dyers used indigo, kermes (source of red or purple, made from parts of the cochineal insect,), archil (a red producing lichen, also called orchil or cudbear), alkanet (an herb whose root produces red), buckthorn berries and saffron (for yellow), mulberry juice (for red or purple), and tannins (acidic fixatives),. According to Pliny, they also invented mordanting, a treatment of fibers with chemicals that allows the dye to adhere better, thus increasing colorfastness." Basically all circumstantial evidence indicates the dying of linen has been practiced ever since, if not prior. Lisa --part1_180.f13baeb.2ad3aee1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 8:06:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com writes:


The Plictho from 1548 documents dyeing recipes for linen, but no one on the list had seen evidence/citations prior to this, if I remember correctly.


In Colors - The Story of Dyes and Pigments by Francois Delamare and Bernard Guineau states that "We do know that the madder plant was used to dye the red linen textiles found in the Old Kingdom tombs of the Nile valley.  Safflower, a source of red and pink, has been identified among the seeds found in the tomb of Tutankhamun.  Should we trust ancient texts?  Pliny the Elder, a 1st-century AD Roman encyclopedias, wrote a Natural History in which he reports that the Egyptian dyers used indigo, kermes (source of red or purple, made from parts of the cochineal insect,), archil (a red producing lichen, also called orchil or cudbear), alkanet (an herb whose root produces red), buckthorn berries and saffron (for yellow), mulberry juice (for red or purple), and tannins (acidic fixatives),.  According to Pliny, they also invented mordanting, a treatment of fibers with chemicals that allows the dye to adhere better, thus increasing colorfastness." 

Basically all circumstantial evidence indicates the dying of linen has been practiced ever since, if not prior.  

Lisa --part1_180.f13baeb.2ad3aee1_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 00:02:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25987 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:02:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984413Y004112; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98440Ga007536; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9843IGa007337 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:03:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.17f.fc01cf9 (4410) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <17f.fc01cf9.2ad3b2fe@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_17f.fc01cf9.2ad3b2fe_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:03:10 EDT Status: RO --part1_17f.fc01cf9.2ad3b2fe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gosh, I wish I had time to research more and type some commentary but I am flat out at the moment so I shall just drop a couple of sources that indicate linen's use in outer garments, again Medieval Costume and Fashion by Herbert Norris. "Remnants of an armorial surcote dating about 1240 still exist. It is of very fine linen, golden yellow in colour, and on it a lion in blue linen ("or a lion rampant azure" for Rivers) is appliqued, the edges being sewn down securely with a solid chain-stitch in dull orange. Various parts of the animal are stitched and darned with deeper blue threads, to suggest the anatomy." Where this is I do not know! And there are a number of examples of block printed linen from the twelth to fourteenth centurys in The Book of Costume by Millia Davenport with the following commentary. "Fragment of natural linen, block printed in green. Wood-block printed fabrics, in imitation of Italian brocades, often using silver and gold, began to appear in the Rhineland, end XIIc. They apparently antedated block printed initials on manuscripts, which led to the invention of type." and "Fragments of block-printed linen: Upper right, Renish:eagles, fruit and leaves in dark purple." The photos of the fragments do not look eclassiatical but more like the motifs found in outer clothing (as seen in medieval paintings). Lisa --part1_17f.fc01cf9.2ad3b2fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gosh, I wish I had time to research more and type some commentary but I am flat out at the moment so I shall just drop a couple of sources that indicate linen's use in outer garments,

again

Medieval Costume and Fashion by Herbert Norris.

"Remnants of an armorial surcote dating about 1240 still exist.  It is of very fine linen, golden yellow in colour, and on it a lion in blue linen ("or a lion rampant azure" for Rivers) is appliqued, the edges being sewn down securely with a solid chain-stitch in dull orange.  Various parts of the animal are stitched and darned with deeper blue threads, to suggest the anatomy."

Where this is I do not know!

And there are a number of examples of block printed linen from the twelth to fourteenth centurys in The Book of Costume by Millia Davenport with the following commentary.  "Fragment of natural linen, block printed in green.  Wood-block printed fabrics, in imitation of Italian brocades, often using silver and gold, began to appear in the Rhineland, end XIIc.  They apparently antedated block printed initials on manuscripts, which led to the invention of type."  and "Fragments of block-printed linen: Upper right, Renish:eagles, fruit and leaves in dark purple."  The photos of the fragments do not look eclassiatical but more like the motifs found in outer clothing (as seen in medieval paintings).

Lisa
 --part1_17f.fc01cf9.2ad3b2fe_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 00:36:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26070 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:36:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984c33Y005696; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984c0Ga016433; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984bEGa016191 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip40.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.40]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g984b6m29882 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:37:06 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Message-ID: <3DA1FF38.9635.1111F079@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3DA24365.1EB3C73A@dandy.net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 21:40:08 -0700 Status: RO > Where I haven't looked is documents, which could be very fruitful: > textile guild regulations, property use laws, import/export records, > inventories ... but I'm not a primary documents researcher and am > unlikely to have the sort of time and access to do serious primary > work in that area anytime soon. I think you are right that these will probably be the best bet for knowing the answers to the question of "was colored linen used as outerwear fabric in the 14th or 15th C". > So, why my interest in dyed linen? Because if there were evidence to > suggest that linen was dyed frequently and in large quantities and in > many colors, that would suggest that this fabric was a likely > candidate for non-underwear garments. If there is little or no > evidence of dyed linen cloth, that suggests that it's unlikely many > garments were made with linen as the outer fabric. I wouldn't base an > argument on either line of thought, but it's a useful avenue for > supporting material ... particularly since information on cloth > sometimes includes references to the use of the cloth. However, one of the things limiting us is that the extant garments we have tend to be made of things like silk or wool or are highly embroidered (which is why they seem to have gotten extra care from both the original makers and from conservators.) So, even if they had linen outer garments (ie for things such as kirtles) it is unlikely that we would have an example of them. They just aren't used in ecclesiastic or state garments (which tend to be the types of things best preserved.) So that leaves us with archeologic evidence. For linen, that's not very likely because of the conditions where most of our extant garments are found. For the same reason we don't usually find things like linen chemises in graves, we also don't find linen non-underwear garments: the soils are acid which promotes protein (wool, silk) preservation but not plant fibre (linen or nettle). So, the only conclusion we can come to in their absence is that we don't know if they did or did not have linen for that use unless we find written references in the type of documents you mentioned earlier. I personally prefer to teach that, in the absence of further information, it is best not to use it for outerwear if someone is going to be looking at it for "academic" purposes (such as contests). Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 00:36:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26076 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:36:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984cP3Y005715; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984cPGa016554; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984btGa016374 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.9b.2e93d657 (4410) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:37:36 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <9b.2e93d657.2ad3bb10@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? or Keepping up with the Joneses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9b.2e93d657.2ad3bb10_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:37:36 EDT Status: RO --part1_9b.2e93d657.2ad3bb10_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 7:44:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mikes@dandy.net writes: > Under what conditions was dyed linen used, and when, is certainly the more > difficult question. My impressions are that although one would of course desire silk, brocades, etc if one had the money and/or wasn't frightened by the sumputary laws one would wear it and linen was used in a practical sense and also by the wanna be's of society. People tried to look there best when ever they could and if they could only block print linen to look like brocaded silk then that is what they wore. That is just my impression. More research required! --part1_9b.2e93d657.2ad3bb10_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 7:44:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mikes@dandy.net writes:


Under what conditions was dyed linen used, and when, is certainly the more
difficult question.


My impressions are that although one would of course desire silk, brocades, etc if one had the money and/or wasn't frightened by the sumputary laws one would wear it and linen was used in a practical sense and also by the wanna be's of society.  People tried to look there best when ever they could and if they could only block print linen to look like brocaded silk then that is what they wore.  That is just my impression.  More research required!
 --part1_9b.2e93d657.2ad3bb10_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 00:52:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26122 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984p23Y006181; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984p1Ga019486; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g984osGa019462 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05248 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:55:25 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: <17f.fc01cf9.2ad3b2fe@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:55:25 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 LSinervo@aol.com wrote: > Gosh, I wish I had time to research more and type some commentary but > I am flat out at the moment so I shall just drop a couple of sources > that indicate linen's use in outer garments, These were new to me. Thanks. But I have to be skeptical, and cannot accept these as garment examples without question. Specifically: > Medieval Costume and Fashion by Herbert Norris. > > "Remnants of an armorial surcote dating about 1240 still exist. It is > of very fine linen, golden yellow in colour, and on it a lion in blue > linen ("or a lion rampant azure" for Rivers) is appliqued, the edges > being sewn down securely with a solid chain-stitch in dull orange. > Various parts of the animal are stitched and darned with deeper blue > threads, to suggest the anatomy." > > Where this is I do not know! Good question. I don't trust Norris at all; he's notoriously unreliable. This raises a lot of questions for me: - What sort of garment was this from -- a herald's tabard? (I have not heard of any extant women's surcotes with heraldry on them, and precious few male garments, one of which is the Black Prince's jupon). - Or, since it's "remnants," did someone just assume it was from a surcote, when it might be from a banner, an ecclesiastical cope, a wall hanging, a cushion, etc. - Is this really original, or was it remade at some later date? - What is the date based on? - Where is the garment from? I wouldn't rule out linen use for visible layer of garments in Spain or Italy; my interest is Western Europe. Heather's our resident expert on extant garments ... does this ring any bells? > And there are a number of examples of block printed linen from the > twelth to fourteenth centurys in The Book of Costume by Millia > Davenport with the following commentary. "Fragment of natural linen, > block printed in green. Wood-block printed fabrics, in imitation of > Italian brocades, often using silver and gold, began to appear in the > Rhineland, end XIIc. They apparently antedated block printed initials > on manuscripts, which led to the invention of type." and "Fragments > of block-printed linen: Upper right, Renish:eagles, fruit and leaves > in dark purple." The photos of the fragments do not look > eclassiatical but more like the motifs found in outer clothing (as > seen in medieval paintings). OK, necessary scepticism again. I looked at these, and would be inclined to assume they were from wall hangings, tablecoverings, or other decorative use, partly because the motifs are consistent with images of such uses, partly because I find the use of block printing for garments unlikely (particularly in so sumptuous a design), and partly because a decorative fabric is much more likely to survive in these sorts of pieces than a garment fabric. But if anyone has a reason to suggest these might be from garments, I'd be really interested in hearing it. They're figures 634 and 635 in Davenport. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 01:07:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26188 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:07:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9859J3Y006901; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9859FGa023899; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:09:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9858tGa023783 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1ab.9cf4097 (30950) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:08:29 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <1ab.9cf4097.2ad3c24d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1ab.9cf4097.2ad3c24d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:08:29 EDT Status: RO --part1_1ab.9cf4097.2ad3c24d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 9:38:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > So, the only conclusion we can come to in their absence is that we > don't know if they did or did not have linen for that use unless we > find written references in the type of documents you mentioned > earlier. > This is interesting to me as I consider there to be a "number" of examples of linen used as outer garments. Don't have the MoL book handy but I know there are a few examples there too. So, my question would then be, given so few examples of linen are likely to exist due to decay etc, would it not be more reasonable to conclude that as a few extant examples do indeed exist that it is likely that linen WAS used as outer garments in the medieval period? I agree looking at other primary records could sway my opinion too. Lisa --part1_1ab.9cf4097.2ad3c24d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 9:38:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes:


So, the only conclusion we can come to in their absence is that we
don't know if they did or did not have linen for that use unless we
find written references in the type of documents you mentioned
earlier.


This is interesting to me as I consider there to be a "number" of examples of linen used as outer garments.  Don't have the MoL book handy but I know there are a few examples there too.  So, my question would then be, given so few examples of linen are likely to exist due to decay etc,  would it not be more reasonable to conclude that as a few extant examples do indeed exist that it is likely that linen WAS used as outer garments in the medieval period?  I agree looking at other primary records could sway my opinion too.

Lisa --part1_1ab.9cf4097.2ad3c24d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 01:30:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26265 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g985W23Y007652; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g985W1Ga029035; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g985VqGa028989 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.a3.2f8ce671 (30950) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:31:42 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a3.2f8ce671.2ad3c7be_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:31:42 EDT Status: RO --part1_a3.2f8ce671.2ad3c7be_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 9:50:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: > (I have not > heard of any extant women's surcotes with heraldry on them, and precious > few male garments, one of which is the Black Prince's jupon). Don't know of many extant garment of the period at all, but pg. 214 of Davenport #598 has a brass with Katherine, Lady Harsick with a kirtle bearing the arms of Geslingthorpe, assumed by Calthorpe, and pg. 179 of A History of Costume in the West by Francois Boucher (published at 20,000 years of something or another in the US I believe) has as #317 Luttrell Psalter, c., which Norris describes as Sir Geoffrey Louterell, His Wife and Daughter in Law in Heraldic surcotes. I shall keep my eye out for more examples, and if I find any, will post them. Cheers Lisa --part1_a3.2f8ce671.2ad3c7be_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 9:50:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes:


(I have not
heard of any extant women's surcotes with heraldry on them, and precious
few male garments, one of which is the Black Prince's jupon).


Don't know of many extant garment of the period at all, but pg. 214 of Davenport #598 has a brass with Katherine, Lady Harsick with a kirtle bearing the arms of Geslingthorpe, assumed by Calthorpe, and pg. 179 of A History of Costume in the West by Francois Boucher (published at 20,000 years of something or another in the US I believe) has as #317 Luttrell Psalter, c.,  which Norris describes as Sir Geoffrey Louterell, His Wife and Daughter in Law in Heraldic surcotes.

I shall keep my eye out for more examples, and if I find any, will post them. 

Cheers

Lisa
--part1_a3.2f8ce671.2ad3c7be_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 01:38:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26309 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:38:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g985e43Y008086; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g985e1Ga001387; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g985dnGa001273 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.99.2da513d9 (30950) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:39:38 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <99.2da513d9.2ad3c99a@aol.com> Subject: Fwd: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_99.2da513d9.2ad3c99a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:39:38 EDT Status: RO --part1_99.2da513d9.2ad3c99a_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_99.2da513d9.2ad3c99a_alt_boundary" --part1_99.2da513d9.2ad3c99a_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oops that was supposed to be and pg. 179 of A History of Costume in the West by Francois Boucher (published at 20,000 years of something or another in the US I believe) has as #317 Luttrell Psalter, c., 1340, London, British museum, Ms f . 202 v. which Norris describes as Sir Geoffrey Louterell, His Wife and Daughter, in Heraldic surcotes. --part1_99.2da513d9.2ad3c99a_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oops that was supposed to be

and pg. 179 of A History of Costume in the West by Francois Boucher (published at 20,000 years of something or another in the US I believe) has as #317 Luttrell Psalter, c.,  1340, London, British museum, Ms f . 202 v. which Norris describes as Sir Geoffrey Louterell, His Wife and Daughter, in Heraldic surcotes.

 --part1_99.2da513d9.2ad3c99a_alt_boundary-- --part1_99.2da513d9.2ad3c99a_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: LSinervo@aol.com Full-name: LSinervo Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:31:42 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part2_99.2da513d9.2ad3c7be_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 --part2_99.2da513d9.2ad3c7be_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 9:50:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: > (I have not > heard of any extant women's surcotes with heraldry on them, and precious > few male garments, one of which is the Black Prince's jupon). Don't know of many extant garment of the period at all, but pg. 214 of Davenport #598 has a brass with Katherine, Lady Harsick with a kirtle bearing the arms of Geslingthorpe, assumed by Calthorpe, and pg. 179 of A History of Costume in the West by Francois Boucher (published at 20,000 years of something or another in the US I believe) has as #317 Luttrell Psalter, c., which Norris describes as Sir Geoffrey Louterell, His Wife and Daughter in Law in Heraldic surcotes. I shall keep my eye out for more examples, and if I find any, will post them. Cheers Lisa --part2_99.2da513d9.2ad3c7be_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 9:50:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes:


(I have not
heard of any extant women's surcotes with heraldry on them, and precious
few male garments, one of which is the Black Prince's jupon).


Don't know of many extant garment of the period at all, but pg. 214 of Davenport #598 has a brass with Katherine, Lady Harsick with a kirtle bearing the arms of Geslingthorpe, assumed by Calthorpe, and pg. 179 of A History of Costume in the West by Francois Boucher (published at 20,000 years of something or another in the US I believe) has as #317 Luttrell Psalter, c.,  which Norris describes as Sir Geoffrey Louterell, His Wife and Daughter in Law in Heraldic surcotes.

I shall keep my eye out for more examples, and if I find any, will post them. 

Cheers

Lisa
--part2_99.2da513d9.2ad3c7be_boundary-- --part1_99.2da513d9.2ad3c99a_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 01:47:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26373 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:47:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g985n23Y008561; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g985n0Ga003863; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out008.verizon.net (out008pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g985lxGa003466 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.verizon.net ([151.199.136.98]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021008054753.YARV19644.out008.verizon.net@default.verizon.net> for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:47:53 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20021008012434.00ae82b0@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: References: <3DA24365.1EB3C73A@dandy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 01:45:17 -0400 Status: RO At 10:48 PM 10/7/02 -0500, you wrote: >Heather wrote: > > > The question that arises is not simply, "_could_ linen be dyed in the > > middle ages?" but more complexly "under what conditions does dyed > > linen appear to have been used, and when does it appear not to have > > been used?" > >and, similarly, Mike wrote: > > > The answer to "could linen be dyed?" is certainly an emphatic "yes!" > > Under what conditions was dyed linen used, and when, is certainly the > > more difficult question. > >And that's the crux of it for me, too. I'm one of the people who's asked >about dyed linen on this list, periodically over several years now, and >whenever I hear of an extant linen garment or a written reference to a >linen garment, my first question is "Is it white or dyed?" My interest >isn't in dyeing per se, but rather in the issue of whether linen was used >for the visible layers of body garments (e.g. gowns, tunics) in medieval >Western Europe. This may be later than you are looking for as it is not really medieval. In the British State Papers [Colonial 33. Domestic Elizabeth. cxl. No 48, i.] as reprinted in Hakluyt Society's THE THREE VOYAGES OF MARTIN FROBISHER no. 38 first series includes a document dated 26 of Marche, 1577. SHIPPINGE THOWT MYET TO BE EMPLOYED IN THE VIAGE ENTENTED BY MR FURBUSHER. In this document (an accounting of various stores purchased for the voyage, is the entry "(Provision for the apparelling of the men) Item Wollinge clothe for jirkens, breche and hose, canvas and lynnenge clothe for dublets and sherts, hats, caps, and shewes, etc." The amount alloted was 100 pounds. This does not speak at all to the dying of linen, but it does seem to suggest that linen was used for outer (or visible) garments by 1577. In this case I mean the doublet. Some may believe the word "lynnenge" means lining cloth and not linen, though I do not think so as the author used a very similiar spelling for woolen. Even if he does mean lining, canvas in the period consisted, by most accounts, consisted of heavy linen or hemp. What is interesting to me, is that the voyage in question was bound for Baffin Bay,Newfoundland, not a warm climate at all! Many secondary sources quote linen of canvas clothes for sailors as well, so there well may be more documentation out there, unless it is all subjecture which with nautical stuff is quite possible. I will try to look into earlier sources, but I can't promise anything, as I am very busy with a new play. Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 02:11:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27262 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:11:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986D23Y009266; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986D0Ga009217; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out019.verizon.net (out019pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986CNGa009034 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.verizon.net ([151.199.136.98]) by out019.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021008061215.YTNZ9549.out019.verizon.net@default.verizon.net> for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:12:15 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20021008020119.00af0480@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: <1ab.9cf4097.2ad3c24d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 02:09:24 -0400 Status: RO At 01:08 AM 10/8/02 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/7/02 9:38:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > > >>So, the only conclusion we can come to in their absence is that we >>don't know if they did or did not have linen for that use unless we >>find written references in the type of documents you mentioned >>earlier. > > >This is interesting to me as I consider there to be a "number" of examples >of linen used as outer garments. Don't have the MoL book handy but I know >there are a few examples there too. So, my question would then be, given >so few examples of linen are likely to exist due to decay etc, would it >not be more reasonable to conclude that as a few extant examples do indeed >exist that it is likely that linen WAS used as outer garments in the >medieval period? I agree looking at other primary records could sway my >opinion too. > >Lisa I can not find any clear examples of linen outer garments in TEXTILES AND CLOTHING. The chapter on linen shows some extant linen swatches, but the text suggests that they are household linens. They do mention some linen recovered from Viking grave sites, but say little more than that, so from the book it can not be determined if these are clothing fragments or household linens. Are there some elsewhere? The book is sans index :( . In the chapter on tailoring their is some discussion of the "St Louis Tunic" which is an extant linen garment, but most seem to believe that this is a inner garment (shirt). In fact it is the source for one of the patterns of men's shirts offered by Historic Enterprises. Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 02:15:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27277 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:15:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986H03Y009402; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986H0Ga010157; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986GZGa010067 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:16:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-99-87.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.99.87]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALR81294; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:14:28 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <002b01c26e92$c5b5c5e0$57634ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:20:17 +0100 Status: RO I think part of the linen as outer garement question may lie in the climatic differances at the time, ie it was somewhat colder we believe. Over the last few years in England it is much more common to wear T shirts for much of the year, however much of the year is quite comfortable in wool and would be more so if the weather was 3-5 degrees cooler. That may be the simple answer there. I've seen it suggested very fine wool is cool, but I've tried very very fine wool and it is still hotter than linen. Linen is undoubtably more difficult to dye than wool and indeed cotton or silk, but you can get some colour from it although it is less likely to last. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 02:19:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29614 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:19:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986L33Y009560; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986L0Ga011065; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986KmGa010988 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:20:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1a7.9cc21df (4418) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:20:35 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <1a7.9cc21df.2ad3d332@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a7.9cc21df.2ad3d332_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:20:34 EDT Status: RO --part1_1a7.9cc21df.2ad3d332_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 11:13:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > I can not find any clear examples of linen outer garments in TEXTILES > AND CLOTHING. The chapter on linen shows some extant linen swatches, but > the text suggests that they are household linens I thought there was an example of a garment that had a tablet woven edge on it that was of linen. I don't have a copy of the book on hand, but I thought for sure I remembered seeing that. I could be wrong. --part1_1a7.9cc21df.2ad3d332_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 11:13:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes:


I can not find any clear examples of linen outer garments in TEXTILES
AND CLOTHING.  The chapter on linen shows some extant linen swatches, but
the text suggests that they are household linens


I thought there was an example of a garment that had a tablet woven edge on it that was of linen.  I don't have a copy of the book on hand, but I thought for sure I remembered seeing that.  I could be wrong. --part1_1a7.9cc21df.2ad3d332_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 02:51:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14804 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:51:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986r73Y010614; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986r0Ga018108; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g986q9Ga017875 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:52:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.16.) id 6.b2.13108274 (4418) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:51:59 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Outergarments of linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_b2.13108274.2ad3da8e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:51:58 EDT Status: RO --part1_b2.13108274.2ad3da8e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 11:13:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > I can not find any clear examples of linen outer garments in TEXTILES > AND CLOTHING no, just fragments if I recall too, but I did think I remember seeing a garment with button holes, I must get another copy. Another avenue of research might be The Fraternity of Tailors and Linen Armourers of St. John the Baptist in the City of London formed in 1272. I suppose that padded akertons is not an "outer garment" in the context of this discussion which is probably the only other example I can think of that I have come accross. Lisa --part1_b2.13108274.2ad3da8e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 11:13:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes:


I can not find any clear examples of linen outer garments in TEXTILES
AND CLOTHING


no, just fragments if I recall too, but I did think I remember seeing a garment with button holes, I must get another copy.

Another avenue of research might be The Fraternity of Tailors and Linen Armourers of St. John the Baptist in the City of London formed in 1272.  I suppose that padded akertons is not an "outer garment" in the context of this discussion which is probably the only other example I can think of that  I have come accross.

Lisa







--part1_b2.13108274.2ad3da8e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 03:15:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24043 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 03:15:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g987F23Y011416; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g987F1Ga022777; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g987ERGa022640 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:14:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A6A256A900B6; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 02:17:54 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A6C646E200B8; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 02:18:30 -0500 Message-ID: <018e01c26e9a$63178560$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20021007210810.42052.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume classes X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 03:14:48 -0400 Status: RO Cassandra, Susan our technical director is going to write you personally and explain how this works. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 09:35:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10991 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:35:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Db53Y024427; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Db1Ga014286; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98DaqGa014211 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:36:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.6e.241cdf2e (4238) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:36:44 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <6e.241cdf2e.2ad4396c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_6e.241cdf2e.2ad4396c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:36:44 EDT Status: RO --part1_6e.241cdf2e.2ad4396c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 11:17:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MelanieWilson@bigfoot.com writes: > I think part of the linen as outer garement question may lie in the climatic > differances at the time, ie it was somewhat colder we > believe.................. . That may be the simple answer > I think this is probably quite correct. No doubt linen was used primarily for linings when the choice of fabrics was available as it suited climatic conditions but in a society based upon a show of wealth people will use what ever materials are at hand to make themselves look as good as possible. I shall keep my eye out for examples of linen's use in the future. This is interesting! Lisa --part1_6e.241cdf2e.2ad4396c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/02 11:17:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MelanieWilson@bigfoot.com writes:


I think part of the linen as outer garement question may lie in the climatic
differances at the time, ie it was somewhat colder we believe.................. . That may be the simple answer


I think this is probably quite correct.  No doubt linen was used primarily for linings when the choice of fabrics was available as it suited climatic conditions but in a society based upon a show of wealth people will use what ever materials are at hand to make themselves look as good as possible.  I shall keep my eye out for examples of linen's use in the future.  This is interesting!

Lisa --part1_6e.241cdf2e.2ad4396c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 09:54:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11099 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:54:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Du33Y025587; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Du1Ga020580; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g98DtDGa020316 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:55:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 93842 invoked by uid 0); 8 Oct 2002 13:55:13 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2002 13:55:13 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20021008020119.00af0480@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <20021008095417.V46632-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Again, this is a couple of centuries later, but in T Bouck va Wondre, a dutch book of secrets dated to 1503, there are several recipes for dyeing linen red. Which would indicate, to me, an outer garment of some kind. Drea On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Ron Carnegie wrote: > At 01:08 AM 10/8/02 -0400, you wrote: > >In a message dated 10/7/02 9:38:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > >kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > > > > > >>So, the only conclusion we can come to in their absence is that we > >>don't know if they did or did not have linen for that use unless we > >>find written references in the type of documents you mentioned > >>earlier. > > > > > >This is interesting to me as I consider there to be a "number" of examples > >of linen used as outer garments. Don't have the MoL book handy but I know > >there are a few examples there too. So, my question would then be, given > >so few examples of linen are likely to exist due to decay etc, would it > >not be more reasonable to conclude that as a few extant examples do indeed > >exist that it is likely that linen WAS used as outer garments in the > >medieval period? I agree looking at other primary records could sway my > >opinion too. > > > >Lisa > > > I can not find any clear examples of linen outer garments in TEXTILES > AND CLOTHING. The chapter on linen shows some extant linen swatches, but > the text suggests that they are household linens. They do mention some > linen recovered from Viking grave sites, but say little more than that, so > from the book it can not be determined if these are clothing fragments or > household linens. Are there some elsewhere? The book is sans index :( . > > In the chapter on tailoring their is some discussion of the "St Louis > Tunic" which is an extant linen garment, but most seem to believe that > this is a inner garment (shirt). In fact it is the source for one of the > patterns of men's shirts offered by Historic Enterprises. > > Cheers, > > Ron Carnegie > r.carnegie@verizon.net > ************************************************* > "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that > once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked > other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking > their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now > all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we > ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." > G.M. Trevelyan > ************************************************* > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 10:00:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11136 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:00:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98E213Y026077; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98E20Ga022703; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98E1UGa022536 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:01:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g98E3TB28790.; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:03:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 15:01:29 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] I've made a spectacle of m(SNIP!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g98E1UGa022536 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 15:01:18 +0100 Status: RO Rick Wolff wrote: >It seems that somewhere between me and you, there is a limitation on >words I can email at a time. I had a big list of Qs and As, and now they're >lost to the ether. Suffice it to say that my home page update may answer >many questions, including the progress of my new models. If not, please >ask them here, or directly at rikwolff@aol.com. I wasn't one of those who complained about the original wording on the website, but as no-one else has commented on the new version I thought I'd mention that it seems very well-expressed and tactful to me. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 10:17:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11332 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:17:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98EJ23Y027265; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98EJ1Ga029433; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98EInGa029346 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07027 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:23:22 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: <6e.241cdf2e.2ad4396c@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:23:22 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 LSinervo@aol.com wrote: > I shall keep my eye out for examples of linen's use in the future. > This is interesting! If you've just come into this for the first time, you might be interested in reading some of the past discussions we've had on this topic. Try searching the archives for some of these threads: Subject: "Use of linen in Italy and elsewhere," August 1999 Subject: "linen--only for underwear??" July 2000 Subject: "linen--uses and dyeing" July 2000 Subject: "linen, blue, and silver (was: linen--uses and dyeing)" July 2000 Subject: "linen blue and silver" July 2000 Subject: "Fwd: Re: A disturbing thought: Linen garments" August 2001 Subject "Colored Linen" August 2002 There are probably more that would be visible on a subject-line search for just "linen." But these are all threads I've saved bits of, so I had the names and dates. In skimming through these I saw some good data that add to most of the points we're addressing in this latest iteration, so a run through the archives to get up to speed would be useful for anyone who wasn't in on the earlier discussions. They include lots of support for colored linen and linen for outergarments from the 16th c. on up, some questions about exactly what colors were used in 18th century, some discussion of printed linens (which apparently were not for clothing except in extraordinary circumstances, according to some sources), and more. Archives are at --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 11:29:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11658 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:29:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98FV53Y003523; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98FV1jP003745; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98FUwjP003685 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:30:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from RikWolff@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1bf.1015eef8 (15898) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d02.webmail.aol.com [205.188.138.66]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v89.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID91-1008113048; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:30:48 -0400 From: RikWolff@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] I've made a spectacle of m(SNIP!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <11DFEAF2.2A4BDEF4.0080FACC@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:30:48 -0400 Status: RO Thank you. It says essentially the same thing, except now it gets to what's driving me to do what I'm doing. I hate to admit it, but I predict the scuttlebutt over my first version will have penetrated more deeply than the opinions of the current version. I hope I'm wrong. I feel weird using these channels for commercial messages. That's why I hope to make this a real and useful nexis for study in early optometry. Reijnier Verplanck / Rick Wolff Spectacles by VerPlanck renspecs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 13:14:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12076 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:14:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98HE73Y012575; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98HE1jP001403; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98HBxjP000209 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.161] (pm5-161.eos.net [205.133.149.161]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20216 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:11:56 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021008061300.9215.43251.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: colored linen in the 14th century? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 13:09:21 -0400 Status: RO I would hesitate to base anything on garments displaying heraldry. People on this list have previously presented good research (Henk particularly, though he's not on anymore) that heraldic decorations on clothes were not usual, though they do appear in period illustrations. Also, garments made for tournaments were much more like what we think of as costumes than "garments" for regular wear. So if the note cited really is linen, and not just an assumption, and really is an appliqued heraldic surcote, and not a misidentified flag or something, then it still might not represent something that people actually wore in their daily lives. I would think (a guess here!) that the answer might be found in guild and trade regulations. Wool was a major industry throughout Britain and Europe, and all sorts of regulations governed the types of fabric allowed to be made and sold, the way they could be dyed and finished, etc. I am told by a friend who spins that, for instance, certain weaves of linen were only used for table cloths. If, say, you found colored yards of this (and I haven't!!!! it's an example) that still wouldn't tell you whether people wore outer clothes made of colored linen. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 15:15:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12742 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:15:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98JH23Y025271; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98JH0b5008775; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98JGOb5008413 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g98JGNae015441 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:16:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well, this isn't 14th c., but someone posted a link to the list (and I can't find it in my bookmarks, which desperately need weeding) about a man's doublet, dated to the early 17th century, made of a sort of grey-brown linen. The web site had something to do with objects found inserted into the walls of buildings, so maybe someone will recall it. Anyway, the thing that interested me was that the doublet was linen; I usually think of outerwear for this period as being wool and nothing else. Of course, there are linen jackets, etc., in Hart's _Costume in Detail_, so clearly that's a gross oversimplification on my part . -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 15:20:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12764 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:20:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98JM23Y025786; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98JM1b5011496; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98JL1b5011002 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g98JL0ae016089 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:21:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: <3DA22D45.EBA7C90B@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >From what I've read, the Scots wore both wool and linen shirts in this period, but I'd assume the leine was linen unless specified otherwise. The color was usually derived from weld, though maybe some really wealthy people dyed their leinte with actual saffron. I'd love to see results of your weld dyeing experiment -- do you have them posted anywhere? Also have seen a quote to the effect that the seams were embellished with colored (red or green) silk thread, but that falls more in the realm of embroidery than plain sewing ;) Cheers, Mara On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Uh...without being able to pull out any actual, scholarly cites or > anything (it was one of THOSE Mondays), what about the > sumptuary/regulatory laws I've heard of in reference to "saffron shirts" > for those people living in Ireland during certain periods of British > rule? I've always assumed they'd be linen, but I suppose they could be a > fine wool. Does anyone know? > Mind you, I'm assuming that the *color* is saffron-ish, not the dye > stuff. We've been experimenting this summer, and you can get some > amazingly potent yellows and golds with tansy, or dandelion, or weld. > --Sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 15:26:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12783 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98JR13Y026273; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98JR1b5014128; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12006.mail.yahoo.com (web12006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g98JQGb5013732 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021008192615.76249.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.208] by web12006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:26:15 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] trying Cathy Decker's page/linen/weaving Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Thanks Susan and Penny, It looks like I will be signing up for a class as soon as I get paid next week. If Cathy Decker or anyone who uses her site frequently is here....I tried looking through her site for my Regency research and everything I tried had either the graphics wouldn't come up or I got a message telling me that my server was not allowed to access those pages. Help? I'm coming out of my Yahoo account, signed in, but I can use regular Yahoo without signing in. My two cents on colored linen. My interest is on the 19th century in America but when cloth is scarce enough people used anything, ie bed ticking, table linens, etc. I assume this applies to the poor anywhere, anytime, perhaps not a valid assumption. Ditto home weaving. In a book called Lone Stars that came out of the quilt research project for Texas the journals talk about the women who spun and wove until trade became established and they didn't need to and when the Civil War cut off supplies of ready woven yardage the older women took up spinning and weaving again. For this specific time frame and place the evidence argues that women did home fabric production until they could get ready woven yardage and then returned to it when money or supplies became scarce. I suppose an extrapolation could be made for the poor continuing home production even when ready made was available as labor could be provided by the family while money, as in coin, had to be gotten from outside the family unit. I'm thinking specifically of my great-grandparents down in Kentucky who didn't get electriciy until 1968. I don't remember Good Mama buying anything ever from the grocer. She bought yardage and shoes and overalls for her husband but everything else was home produced or so ancient that it predated the 1900s. I wonder if a case could be made for whether linen or wool was the poor man's cloth for the Renaissance and before. Poor people's clothing is notoriously rare to be found. The doublet mentioned on this list before for the hidden garments site? The doublet found inside the chimney that the conservator copied for the display? I can't remember the exact site but I thought it was working man's clothing and it was linen? As always I have more questions for the pre-19th timeframe than data. Oh, well. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 16:16:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13136 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:16:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98KG63Y000749; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98KG1b5010926; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f28.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98KFLb5010604 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:15:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:15:16 -0700 Received: from 66.136.213.220 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 20:15:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.136.213.220] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2002 20:15:16.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[6A771B00:01C26F07] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 20:15:15 +0000 Status: RO The one issue I haven't yet seen mentioned regarding extant linen is the fact that linen was frequently recycled into paper. Dyes can be bleached out during the paper manufacturing process. In his book Connections, James Burke mentions the "Rag and Bone" man collecting linen rag for paper making in the 14th century. Just another thought... Mary/Katerine > > Where I haven't looked is documents, which could be very fruitful: > > textile guild regulations, property use laws, import/export records, > > inventories ... but I'm not a primary documents researcher and am > > unlikely to have the sort of time and access to do serious primary > > work in that area anytime soon. > >I think you are right that these will probably be the best bet for >knowing the answers to the question of "was colored linen used as >outerwear fabric in the 14th or 15th C". > > > So, why my interest in dyed linen? Because if there were evidence to > > suggest that linen was dyed frequently and in large quantities and in > > many colors, that would suggest that this fabric was a likely > > candidate for non-underwear garments. If there is little or no > > evidence of dyed linen cloth, that suggests that it's unlikely many > > garments were made with linen as the outer fabric. I wouldn't base an > > argument on either line of thought, but it's a useful avenue for > > supporting material ... particularly since information on cloth > > sometimes includes references to the use of the cloth. > >However, one of the things limiting us is that the extant garments we >have tend to be made of things like silk or wool or are highly >embroidered (which is why they seem to have gotten extra care from >both the original makers and from conservators.) So, even if they had >linen outer garments (ie for things such as kirtles) it is unlikely >that we would have an example of them. They just aren't used in >ecclesiastic or state garments (which tend to be the types of things >best preserved.) > >So that leaves us with archeologic evidence. For linen, that's not >very likely because of the conditions where most of our extant >garments are found. For the same reason we don't usually find things >like linen chemises in graves, we also don't find linen non-underwear >garments: the soils are acid which promotes protein (wool, silk) >preservation but not plant fibre (linen or nettle). > >So, the only conclusion we can come to in their absence is that we >don't know if they did or did not have linen for that use unless we >find written references in the type of documents you mentioned >earlier. > >I personally prefer to teach that, in the absence of further >information, it is best not to use it for outerwear if someone is >going to be looking at it for "academic" purposes (such as contests). > >Kat Russell > > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 16:56:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13307 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Kv23Y004767; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Kv1b5004148; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Kuub5004097 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:56:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.43] (as3-4-57.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.43]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g98Kup009637 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:00:54 -0700 Status: RO At 10:48 PM -0500 10/7/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >And that's the crux of it for me, too. I'm one of the people who's asked >about dyed linen on this list, periodically over several years now, and >whenever I hear of an extant linen garment or a written reference to a >linen garment, my first question is "Is it white or dyed?" My interest >isn't in dyeing per se, but rather in the issue of whether linen was used >for the visible layers of body garments (e.g. gowns, tunics) in medieval >Western Europe. > >There's no question linen was used for undergarments (e.g. chemises, >shirts), bed linens, table linens, towels, aprons, sacking, wrappings, and >many other purposes, but these are all things that are normally assumed to >be white or undyed. Linen is also listed in documents as a lining, and (as >Heather notes) appears in extant garments as a lining (sometimes dyed! >thanks, Heather). But whether it was used as what people today call the >"fashion fabric" of garments -- there's the issue. In Europe (which sidesteps all those Egyptian linen tunics) I can only offer a few examples -- and none dyed. There's a white linen chasuble at St. Godehard's Basilica in Hildesheim, Germany from the 14th c. which is made of a very decorative complex diamond twill. The simple fact of it being a chasuble makes it a "fashion fabric", but the highly decorative weave also argues for a "show off" function. I've also got a listing for a 10th c. linen chasuble from the grave of St. Ulrich in Augsburg, but I don't recall offhand whether it has any interesting features. The embroidered tunic-relic of St. Bathilde is white linen, but it's a garment that I'm really uncomfortable drawing any general conclusions from (the legends make it a garment of deliberate peculiarity). Other than that, all my European linen items are shirts and albs and similar undergarments. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 16:57:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13313 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:57:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Kww3Y004923; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Kwvb5005213; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:58:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Kuwb5004126 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.43] (as3-4-57.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.43]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g98Kuv009757 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <180.f13baeb.2ad3aee1@aol.com> References: <180.f13baeb.2ad3aee1@aol.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g98Kuwb5004126 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:09:34 -0700 Status: RO At 11:45 PM -0400 10/7/02, LSinervo@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/7/02 8:06:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com writes: > >>The Plictho from 1548 documents dyeing recipes for linen, but no >>one on the list had seen evidence/citations prior to this, if I >>remember correctly. >> > > >In Colors - The Story of Dyes and Pigments by Francois Delamare and >Bernard Guineau states that "We do know that the madder plant was >used to dye the red linen textiles found in the Old Kingdom tombs of >the Nile valley. Safflower, a source of red and pink, has been >identified among the seeds found in the tomb of Tutankhamun. Should >we trust ancient texts? Pliny the Elder, a 1st-century AD Roman >encyclopedias, wrote a Natural History in which he reports that the >Egyptian dyers used indigo, kermes (source of red or purple, made >from parts of the cochineal insect,), archil (a red producing >lichen, also called orchil or cudbear), alkanet (an herb whose root >produces red), buckthorn berries and saffron (for yellow), mulberry >juice (for red or purple), and tannins (acidic fixatives),. >According to Pliny, they also invented mordanting, a treatment of >fibers with chemicals that allows the dye to adhere better, thus >increasing colorfastness."  > >Basically all circumstantial evidence indicates the dying of linen >has been practiced ever since, if not prior.   I would tend to be a bit more cautious in interpreting this text (at least, in terms of what is quoted above -- which is all I have to work with). Linen is only mentioned there in connection with madder-dyed textiles from Old Kingdom tombs in Egypt. The Old Kingdom era is a _long_ time ago. That leaves a large gap of time for the "ever since" conclusion. Safflower seeds have been found in tombs, but safflower is also a food plant whose seeds are a rich source of oil, and the presence of seeds doesn't tell you for which purpose the plant was grown. It suggests that safflower-based dyes were _possible_, but not that they were definitely used. The quotes from Pliny appear to be talking about dying in general -- and textile survivals from Egypt in the first century certainly confirm a wide range of colors used in _wool_. But I don't see the above quote indicating that the claim is being made for using these substances to dye _linen_. I don't mean to be picking on you for providing the quote -- it's a very useful quote. But it's important to read our sources carefully, and not read into them things that they didn't intend to claim. Sometimes I think that 90% of research is figuring out what the sources do and don't say once you find them! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 16:59:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13321 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:59:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98L123Y005138; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98L11b5006329; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Kv1b5004151 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.43] (as3-4-57.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.43]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g98Kux009814 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g98Kv1b5004151 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:34:18 -0700 Status: RO At 11:55 PM -0500 10/7/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 LSinervo@aol.com wrote: > >> Gosh, I wish I had time to research more and type some commentary but >> I am flat out at the moment so I shall just drop a couple of sources >> that indicate linen's use in outer garments, > >These were new to me. Thanks. But I have to be skeptical, and cannot >accept these as garment examples without question. Specifically: > >> Medieval Costume and Fashion by Herbert Norris. >> >> "Remnants of an armorial surcote dating about 1240 still exist. It is >> of very fine linen, golden yellow in colour, and on it a lion in blue >> linen ("or a lion rampant azure" for Rivers) is appliqued, the edges >> being sewn down securely with a solid chain-stitch in dull orange.  >> Various parts of the animal are stitched and darned with deeper blue >> threads, to suggest the anatomy." >> >> Where this is I do not know! > >Good question. I don't trust Norris at all; he's notoriously unreliable. >Heather's our resident expert on extant garments ... does this ring any >bells? I've put it on my list of things to look for, but other than the Norris reference, I've never encountered mention of this item. Norris is completely maddening in his disinterest in providing trackable citations for things. > > And there are a number of examples of block printed linen from the >> twelth to fourteenth centurys in The Book of Costume by Millia >> Davenport with the following commentary. "Fragment of natural linen, >> block printed in green. Wood-block printed fabrics, in imitation of >> Italian brocades, often using silver and gold, began to appear in the >> Rhineland, end XIIc. They apparently antedated block printed initials >> on manuscripts, which led to the invention of type." and "Fragments >> of block-printed linen: Upper right, Renish:eagles, fruit and leaves >> in dark purple." The photos of the fragments do not look >> eclassiatical but more like the motifs found in outer clothing (as >> seen in medieval paintings). > >OK, necessary scepticism again. I looked at these, and would be inclined >to assume they were from wall hangings, tablecoverings, or other >decorative use, partly because the motifs are consistent with images of >such uses, partly because I find the use of block printing for garments >unlikely (particularly in so sumptuous a design), and partly because a >decorative fabric is much more likely to survive in these sorts of pieces >than a garment fabric. But if anyone has a reason to suggest these might >be from garments, I'd be really interested in hearing it. They're figures >634 and 635 in Davenport. Most of the printed linens I've seen (which I'd love to experiment with at some point!) give a strong impression of being furnishings. I do have one example ... and this is going to sound familiar after my previous post ... of a block-printed chasuble from the 15th or 16th century, but I think it was cotton rather than linen -- I'd need to check my photocopies when I get home. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 17:12:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13375 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:12:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98LDB3Y006324; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98LD9b5013196; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g98LCsb5013008 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:12:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 34208 invoked by uid 0); 8 Oct 2002 21:12:54 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2002 21:12:54 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021008171221.T46632-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id g98LCsb5013008 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO As a side note, I've found a really excellent article on painted an stamped fabric during the middle ages that might be helpful in context: http://www.parma.bc.ca/articles/steyned.html Drea On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > At 11:55 PM -0500 10/7/02, Robin Netherton wrote: > >On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 LSinervo@aol.com wrote: > > > >> Gosh, I wish I had time to research more and type some commentary but > >> I am flat out at the moment so I shall just drop a couple of sources > >> that indicate linen's use in outer garments, > > > >These were new to me. Thanks. But I have to be skeptical, and cannot > >accept these as garment examples without question. Specifically: > > > >> Medieval Costume and Fashion by Herbert Norris. > >> > >> "Remnants of an armorial surcote dating about 1240 still exist. It is > >> of very fine linen, golden yellow in colour, and on it a lion in blue > >> linen ("or a lion rampant azure" for Rivers) is appliqued, the edges > >> being sewn down securely with a solid chain-stitch in dull orange.  > >> Various parts of the animal are stitched and darned with deeper blue > >> threads, to suggest the anatomy." > >> > >> Where this is I do not know! > > > >Good question. I don't trust Norris at all; he's notoriously unreliable. > > > > >Heather's our resident expert on extant garments ... does this ring any > >bells? > > > I've put it on my list of things to look for, but other than the > Norris reference, I've never encountered mention of this item. > Norris is completely maddening in his disinterest in providing > trackable citations for things. > > > > > And there are a number of examples of block printed linen from the > >> twelth to fourteenth centurys in The Book of Costume by Millia > >> Davenport with the following commentary. "Fragment of natural linen, > >> block printed in green. Wood-block printed fabrics, in imitation of > >> Italian brocades, often using silver and gold, began to appear in the > >> Rhineland, end XIIc. They apparently antedated block printed initials > >> on manuscripts, which led to the invention of type." and "Fragments > >> of block-printed linen: Upper right, Renish:eagles, fruit and leaves > >> in dark purple." The photos of the fragments do not look > >> eclassiatical but more like the motifs found in outer clothing (as > >> seen in medieval paintings). > > > >OK, necessary scepticism again. I looked at these, and would be inclined > >to assume they were from wall hangings, tablecoverings, or other > >decorative use, partly because the motifs are consistent with images of > >such uses, partly because I find the use of block printing for garments > >unlikely (particularly in so sumptuous a design), and partly because a > >decorative fabric is much more likely to survive in these sorts of pieces > >than a garment fabric. But if anyone has a reason to suggest these might > >be from garments, I'd be really interested in hearing it. They're figures > >634 and 635 in Davenport. > > Most of the printed linens I've seen (which I'd love to experiment > with at some point!) give a strong impression of being furnishings. > I do have one example ... and this is going to sound familiar after > my previous post ... of a block-printed chasuble from the 15th or > 16th century, but I think it was cotton rather than linen -- I'd need > to check my photocopies when I get home. > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 18:12:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13601 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:12:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98ME33Y011696; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98ME0uE016465; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98MDeuE016251 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AngelaFLazear (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g98MDccM559494 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:13:39 -0400 Message-ID: <00ee01c26f17$f30de420$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Angela Lazear-CRC" To: References: <11DFEAF2.2A4BDEF4.0080FACC@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I've made a spectacle of m(SNIP!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:13:36 -0700 Status: RO Rick, Would you mind reposting your website or simply emailing it to me off list? I'm getting to the point where I can barely do anything without my glasses on, so the inevitable need for something period correct will soon raise it's ugly head and I didn't bookmark it, or can't find it. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "As in a theater, the eyes of men, after a well-graced actor leaves the stage, are idly bent on him that enters next, thinking his prattle to be tedious." W. Shakespeare From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] I've made a spectacle of m(SNIP!) > Thank you. It says essentially the same thing, except now it gets to what's driving me to do what I'm doing. I hate to admit it, but I predict the scuttlebutt over my first version will have penetrated more deeply than the opinions of the current version. I hope I'm wrong. I feel weird using these channels for commercial messages. That's why I hope to make this a real and useful nexis for study in early optometry. > > Reijnier Verplanck / Rick Wolff > Spectacles by VerPlanck > renspecs.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 19:54:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14085 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:54:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Nu63Y019005; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98Nu1uE002234; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g98NtquE002149 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021008235546.HHRV2722.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com> for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:55:46 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] keeping it up Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 16:46:54 -0700 Status: RO I have been making costumes for a long time but never for myself. I just joined a Scottish Elizabethan (1560's) reenactment group and have finally made a costume for me. I am supposed to be a Baroness (I wanted to wear a french hood and be at Mary's court) so I made a costume with an overskirt, underskirt and separate bodice that has both side lacing and back lacing. It is brown linen over salmon linen which is okay with my group. I wanted to try it out so I wore it to Casa de Renn Faire in Northern California. I discovered that it is very comfortable except that since I am built like a beach ball, I can't hold a skirt up. I added a belt. It helped a little, but not much, because even a belt expects to encounter hips sticking out from my truly magnificent stomach. I decided that the answer was to add hooks to the bodice and eyes to the skirt. back to the faire to try this out. again it helped, but not a lot because the hooks wouldn't stay in the eyes. Now I have to add a bum roll and farthingale to the mix. I thought about adding an underbodice or suspenders, but they wouldn't take care of my bloomers or bum roll. Also, quite frankly, I am of that delicate age when I could be in a blinding snowstorm and complain about the heat. To be honest, I have never really experienced a snow storm so I am speaking metaphorically. So this is my latest plan. I am going to add some grommets to the bodice and cover them with a stomacher. I am going to add grommets to the front of the skirts, the bum roll and the bloomers and farthingale and lace them all together and hide it with the stomacher. I will put grommets in the side of the skirts and grommets in the modesty panels in the side of the bodice and lace those together. They will be hidden by the lacing at the side. Naturally I have quite enough of a butt to hold up the back so that isn't a problem. Does anyone have any ideas or opinions? I have to look historically accurate (no hand sewn seams. they would lose me there). With my next costume, I will probably just make them connected with a skirting to hide where they are joined, but this bodice is too boned for that to be a viable option and I really like this costume and have sunk a fortune in trims in it and am not ready to dump it and start over. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, the fat, fifty and forgetful Lady Mab _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 20:14:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14174 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:14:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990G13Y020113; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990G0uE009025; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990FAuE008749 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3O00HLQTMOC4@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 20:06:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Cc: MaryAnn Jones Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 20:06:48 -0400 Status: RO Have you thought about suspenders? Depending on what the neck line of the bodice is, that may be doable. Putting on my theatre hat, Rhianwen At 4:46 PM -0700 10/8/02, MaryAnn Jones wrote: >Does anyone have any ideas or opinions? I have to look historically >accurate (no hand sewn seams. they would lose me there). With my >next costume, I will probably just make them connected with a >skirting to hide where they are joined, but this bodice is too boned >for that to be a viable option and I really like this costume and >have sunk a fortune in trims in it and am not ready to dump it and >start over. > >Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, the fat, fifty and forgetful Lady Mab > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 20:14:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14179 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:14:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990GJ3Y020135; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990GIuE009123; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:16:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990FDuE008759 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3O00HLQTMOC4@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@net.indra.com; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 20:06:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Cc: MaryAnn Jones Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 20:06:48 -0400 Status: RO Have you thought about suspenders? Depending on what the neck line of the bodice is, that may be doable. Putting on my theatre hat, Rhianwen At 4:46 PM -0700 10/8/02, MaryAnn Jones wrote: >Does anyone have any ideas or opinions? I have to look historically >accurate (no hand sewn seams. they would lose me there). With my >next costume, I will probably just make them connected with a >skirting to hide where they are joined, but this bodice is too boned >for that to be a viable option and I really like this costume and >have sunk a fortune in trims in it and am not ready to dump it and >start over. > >Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, the fat, fifty and forgetful Lady Mab > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 20:43:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14272 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:43:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990j53Y021777; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990j2uE018072; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990iYuE017964 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:44:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip120.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.120]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g990iR414176 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:44:28 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Message-ID: <3DA31A1E.21876.15632D8C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 17:47:10 -0700 Status: RO > Most of the printed linens I've seen (which I'd love to experiment > with at some point!) give a strong impression of being furnishings. I > do have one example ... and this is going to sound familiar after my > previous post ... of a block-printed chasuble from the 15th or 16th > century, but I think it was cotton rather than linen -- I'd need to > check my photocopies when I get home. Most of the printed linens in the V&A collection *are* either furnishings or ecclesiastic garments. Evidently the printed linen was used in poor parishes and for garments the priest would use when going to plague infested areas. (Some of these would be destroyed afterward in "cleansing fires." I suspect no one wanted to use their silk and embroidered ones for such a purpose.) I've not found any non-speculative source which talks about garments for the non-clerics made of linen until much later. Certainly not in the 14th C (for which the original poster was looking for information. It is always so tempting to say "it was used in the 17th century and in antiquity, so they probably had it in the time in between. However, especially in textiles there are times when techniques or styles were completely out of use that we just can't do that. (Which brings us back to the "Ruritanian Feather" article. But since that is *copiously* covered in the archives and fairly recently too, I won't go into it again here.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 20:46:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14302 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:46:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990m13Y021982; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990m1uE018935; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx12.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx12.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g990l1uE018610 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx12.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 19816299 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 20:46:55 -0400 Message-ID: <017201c26f2d$050dd800$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:44:24 -0500 Status: RO Lady Mab I had the same problem with my husband. His venetians would not stay up on their own. He's a rather skinny guy with, of course, no hips either. So I put grommets in the waistband of the pants and grommets on a strip along the bottom of the doublet, which is hidden by the tabs/skirts, and tied them together. Works like a charm, and is very period. Well, maybe not grommets, per se, but eyelets and lacing the whole thing together with points, definitely. In fact, that little detail has gained him major points in two Bristol Renn Faire costume contests, both of which he won first place men's middle class. Good luck! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "MaryAnn Jones" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 6:46 PM Subject: [h-cost] keeping it up > I have been making costumes for a long time but never for myself. I just > joined a Scottish Elizabethan (1560's) reenactment group and have finally > made a costume for me. I am supposed to be a Baroness (I wanted to wear a > french hood and be at Mary's court) so I made a costume with an overskirt, > underskirt and separate bodice that has both side lacing and back > lacing. It is brown linen over salmon linen which is okay with my > group. I wanted to try it out so I wore it to Casa de Renn Faire in > Northern California. I discovered that it is very comfortable except that > since I am built like a beach ball, I can't hold a skirt up. I added a > belt. It helped a little, but not much, because even a belt expects to > encounter hips sticking out from my truly magnificent stomach. I decided > that the answer was to add hooks to the bodice and eyes to the skirt. back > to the faire to try this out. again it helped, but not a lot because the > hooks wouldn't stay in the eyes. > > Now I have to add a bum roll and farthingale to the mix. I thought about > adding an underbodice or suspenders, but they wouldn't take care of my > bloomers or bum roll. Also, quite frankly, I am of that delicate age when > I could be in a blinding snowstorm and complain about the heat. To be > honest, I have never really experienced a snow storm so I am speaking > metaphorically. > > So this is my latest plan. I am going to add some grommets to the bodice > and cover them with a stomacher. I am going to add grommets to the front > of the skirts, the bum roll and the bloomers and farthingale and lace them > all together and hide it with the stomacher. I will put grommets in the > side of the skirts and grommets in the modesty panels in the side of the > bodice and lace those together. They will be hidden by the lacing at the > side. Naturally I have quite enough of a butt to hold up the back so that > isn't a problem. > > Does anyone have any ideas or opinions? I have to look historically > accurate (no hand sewn seams. they would lose me there). With my next > costume, I will probably just make them connected with a skirting to hide > where they are joined, but this bodice is too boned for that to be a viable > option and I really like this costume and have sunk a fortune in trims in > it and am not ready to dump it and start over. > > Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, the fat, fifty and forgetful Lady Mab > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 21:13:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14413 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:13:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991F43Y023662; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991F2uE026987; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g991EuuE026945 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:14:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021009011455.87541.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:14:55 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021008171221.T46632-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Painting on Cloth Article (was Colored linen in the 14th century?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:14:55 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Drea Leed wrote: > As a side note, I've found a really excellent > article on painted an > stamped fabric during the middle ages that might be > helpful in context: > > http://www.parma.bc.ca/articles/steyned.html > > Drea Long ago when I first discovered this article I was really excited, and very shortly after I read it all I wasn't. It's well written, but it does not do what the author seems to want to do - that is to prove that painting was regularly used on clothing. I once wrote a post on this article for another group, in which I examine the "evidence" and list it. I do hope you all don't mind me reproducing it here. >>>>>>>>>Yes, this is an article I read and book marked some while back. If you read through you will find that the writer professes to go on to explain that "beside the crafts of weaver and embroiderer, and long intertwined with them, was the craft of painter, or painter-stainer. Painters provided designs, and sometimes competition, for textile craftsmen. Although paint was a cheap and fast alternative to woven or embroidered decoration, it was not despised, but was used in period for all the same purposes as the more costly cloth.". BUT he/she never actually demonstrates that it was used commonly for garments. Does the author perhaps go on to give us examples or citations of the use of painting on clothing? No. The author goes on to state: "One turns to documentary evidence, wills, contracts and inventories. Then there is the problem of terminology. What is a cloth "depicted" with images? Woven, embroidered, stencilled or painted? Even "depeynted" is not as certain as it appears, since it could be used to mean "decorated" in almost any manner." Here are all the words I could find in the article, that describe an actual fabric item decorated by painting: (I've used examples only once, but in many cases they are mentioned several times in different examples. These are all sourced examples. Those examples not sourced and merely the authors interpretation I have not used - most notably "costumes", although it is a likely use for fabric painting, just not sourced by the author.) banners (of different types) town standard altar cloths furniture embroidery designs counterpanes tapestry linen for "the jewel to be worn by Our Lord on Corpus Christi Day" heraldic display wall hangings palls fabric for church lecterns bed curtains bed canopies curtains horse-coverings cushions document bag flags festival hangings and finally: garments for little boys or children (from Cennini, the only mention of painting as the finished product) There is overwhelming evidence that painting on cloth of varying kinds was used as a cheaper alternative in the use of utilitarian items. And almost none of it being used on clothing. Cennini at least gives us an indication of *how* fabric painting was sometimes used on clothing - on little boys or children's clothes. (perhaps by those that couldn't afford to keep replacing worn-out or out-grown clothing on children?) I believe that the word painted is commonly misunderstood and misread. In the light of this article, those who couldn't afford the more expensive embroidered tapestries, wall hangings, etc, or who wanted them fast and cheap for processions, or other reasons, bought painted cloths. There is only one mention of it used in clothing in that article, and elsewhere...well, one Queen's forepart of mysterious usage (masque costume?) does not an Elizabethan wardrobe make.<<<<<<<<< Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 21:17:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14433 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:17:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991J93Y023969; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991J7uE028316; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991IJuE028076 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:18:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net14sp161.directcon.net [209.76.47.161]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g991Hqo9031320; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:17:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021008182212.0084c1d0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:22:12 -0700 Status: RO I have much the same problem. What I do is to make my skirts up as usual. I make all my bodices by flatlining them with canvas or twill. I then sew the upper edge of the waistband to the flatlining of the bodice, using sturdy thread like button and carpet thread, with a herringbone stitch. Most professional theater costumes are made this way, because it's far easier to alter than dismantling a gown with the skirts sewn into a waist seam. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 21:17:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14434 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:17:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991J13Y023957; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991J0uE028275; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991IIuE028066 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net14sp161.directcon.net [209.76.47.161]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g991Hqo9031320; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:17:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021008182212.0084c1d0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:22:12 -0700 Status: RO I have much the same problem. What I do is to make my skirts up as usual. I make all my bodices by flatlining them with canvas or twill. I then sew the upper edge of the waistband to the flatlining of the bodice, using sturdy thread like button and carpet thread, with a herringbone stitch. Most professional theater costumes are made this way, because it's far easier to alter than dismantling a gown with the skirts sewn into a waist seam. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 21:49:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14542 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:49:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991p23Y025610; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991p1uE007193; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g991oQuE007009 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.173] (as3-4-187.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.173]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g991oO016578 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <11DFEAF2.2A4BDEF4.0080FACC@aol.com> References: <11DFEAF2.2A4BDEF4.0080FACC@aol.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] I've made a spectacle of m(SNIP!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:10:06 -0700 Status: RO At 11:30 AM -0400 10/8/02, RikWolff@aol.com wrote: >Thank you. It says essentially the same thing, except now it gets to >what's driving me to do what I'm doing. I hate to admit it, but I >predict the scuttlebutt over my first version will have penetrated >more deeply than the opinions of the current version. I hope I'm >wrong. I feel weird using these channels for commercial messages. >That's why I hope to make this a real and useful nexis for study in >early optometry. Just keep repeating to yourself, "There is no such thing as bad publicity ... there is no such thing as bad publicity ...." Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 22:15:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14631 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:15:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g992H73Y026930; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g992H1uE014190; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g992GFuE013955 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-023scfairp0311.dialsprint.net ([65.179.41.57] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17z6OT-0000fi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 19:16:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3DA39F3C.D5B60352@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 22:15:08 -0500 Status: RO I can't tell from your description if you are wearing a corset or not. If so, I hope it has straps. If you are and it does, you can use the "points" method described by Rebecca to tie your farthingale to your corset. Except for your bloomers (yer on yer own there!) everything else rests on top, and nothing falls down. This method has saved me all sorts of back pain, for while I do have hips, they don't appreciate taking the full weight of all that garb. To see a picture and description of what I did, go to http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/under.html If you're not wearing a corset, you might consider one (with straps!) for your next effort. I know it seems like too many layers, but IMHO it certainly beats making _every_ bodice into a corset instead. Margo's suggestion of sewing the waistband of the skirt into the bodice is a very good one--unless the bodice opens in the front and the skirt in the back, which has sometimes been my quandary in the past with this method. Best of luck, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 8 23:49:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15139 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:49:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g993o73Y001636; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g993o0uE008411; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marlo.eagle.ca (marlo.eagle.ca [209.167.16.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g993nZuE008302 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:49:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c1s3k4 (dialin9.eagle.ca [209.167.16.246]) by marlo.eagle.ca (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g993nX604788 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:49:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mercury@eagle.ca) From: "Alabaster" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:01:17 -0400 Status: RO Hi I'm now ready to choose my fabric for my 1873-5 evening dress (still debating between ball & evening dress) & my big question is what type of fabric would be the most suitable modern equivalent? I've been thinking about silk tafetta (maybe even iridescent?) but am worried that it may be too stiff to drape up over the bustle properly. I've read that it was common to use 2 colours AND 2 materials. What combos were used other than silk & velvet? I'd like to be able to wear this gown in all seasons & think velvet would look strange in the summer. As for colour, I read a list of colours from the period & there happened to be a group 'Strawberry, Cream, Prune'- does that sound like a reasonable combo or is it too wild? I have read of Pink & Garnet in the Harper's Bazaar which is what seems to be represented in several of Tissot's paintings. Was purple worn for anything other than levels of mourning? So, another colour question is.. if your petticoat is white (bright white) & some of the white shows beneath the hem as you move, what colour would any lace accents on the body of the gown be? It seems that white would be too stark on any colour. Or was their idea of a white petticoat not really WHITE? Looking forward to hearing your opinions! Thanks Elizabeth elizabeth@alabasterstyle.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 01:07:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15447 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:07:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g995933Y004667; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99591uE026592; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9958AuE026364 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:08:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip167.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.167]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g99583m02908 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:08:03 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Painting on Cloth Article (was Colored linen in the 14th century?) Message-ID: <3DA357E1.15067.165475AC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021009011455.87541.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021008171221.T46632-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 22:10:41 -0700 Status: RO Regarding: > > http://www.parma.bc.ca/articles/steyned.html > Long ago when I first discovered this article I was > really excited, and very shortly after I read it all I > wasn't. It's well written, but it does not do what the > author seems to want to do - that is to prove that > painting was regularly used on clothing. I think if you ask the author (Barbara Gordon), you would find that she *wasn't* trying to prove that it was used on clothing. She was trying to prove that painting was done in lieu of tapestry weaving or embroidering. She regularly teaches classes on the use of painted cloth for this purpose. (Believe me, she'd laugh at the thought that she was providing information for *costumers* as she, um, how to put this, stays away from trying to make clothing. Shoot, I even sew coifs for her husband. Of course, they are handsewn with linen thread on linen in the 14th C style...) However, I would agree with your analysis of the information provided: basically for furnishings and ecclesiastic use with one mention of its use for children's clothing. Robinson in his _A History of Printed Textiles_ talks about the use of block printing in Europe in the Middle Ages. He discusses its use in lesser monasteries, churches and for the wall hangings of the middle class. He also talks about printing being used for embroidery patterns. He also states, "Owing to their poor fastness to washing, these were hardly suitable for clothing." He also mentions that the method needed to make the printing (using a hand method which, especially as the designs got bigger also required thicker pigments encorporating varnish) also makes it less likely to be used for clothing. (Of course, that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be rare inported pieces from the Orient, Middle East, India and Malasia, where printing was used occasionally for clothing. But it would be *rare*.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 01:15:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15467 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:15:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g995H43Y004961; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g995H1uE028424; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g995GKuE028253 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.184.132.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.184.132] helo=[63.53.187.225]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17z9Ck-0008VF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 01:16:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:47:32 -0700 Status: RO At 1:34 PM -0700 10/8/02, Heather Rose Jones wrote: >Most of the printed linens I've seen (which I'd love to experiment >with at some point!) give a strong impression of being furnishings. >I do have one example ... and this is going to sound familiar after >my previous post ... of a block-printed chasuble from the 15th or >16th century, but I think it was cotton rather than linen -- I'd >need to check my photocopies when I get home. If it's the chasuble of St. Ulrich from Lucerne, it's block-printed wool. The fabric is blue-green and is printed in black with palmettes and other motifs similar to those in contemporary (14th-15thc.) Italian silks. The printed pattern goes across seams in some cases, indicating it was printed after the chasuble was sewn together. This chasuble is still used each year in a blessing ceremony where it is held up like a canopy for people to walk underneath. Ref: Cat. No. 20 in _Textile Conservation and Research_, Mechtild Flury-Lemberg, Abegg-Stiftung Bern, 1988, ISBN 3-905014-02-5 -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 03:40:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08161 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 03:40:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g997g23Y009400; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g997g0uE027948; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g997fmuE027917 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:41:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AE83B4E90104; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 02:45:07 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AEB15C63010A; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 02:45:53 -0500 Message-ID: <01d201c26f67$60b53c40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Mourning Program Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 03:42:09 -0400 Status: RO Chesterfield, Virginia Historical Society will offer a program, "Memento Mori- Death Rites of Old Virginia," Wednesday, Oct. 16, at 6:30 PM at Castlewood, 10201 Iron Bridge Rd. Joyce Henry of Petersburg National Battlefield will discuss the rituals of 19th Century mourning and present original clothing and artifacts. Admission: $4 member, $5 non-members. For more information call 804-777-9663. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 04:24:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA31400 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 04:24:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g998Q13Y011267; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 02:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g998Q0uE006909; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 02:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g998PeuE006833 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 02:25:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021009082540.10378.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:25:40 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] I've made a spectacle of m(SNIP!) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:25:40 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Heather Rose Jones > Just keep repeating to yourself, "There is no such thing as bad > publicity ... there is no such thing as bad publicity ...." But there is such thing as bad press and this is why I wrote my reply in the very first place!!!! I am glad it is all sorted now. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 04:57:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA31491 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 04:57:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g998x23Y012142; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 02:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g998x0uE013875; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 02:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g998wVuE013774 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 02:58:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021009085831.56323.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:58:31 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: 17th c linen, was Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:58:31 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > Well, this isn't 14th c., but someone posted a link to the list (and I > can't find it in my bookmarks, which desperately need weeding) about a > man's doublet, dated to the early 17th century, made of a sort of > grey-brown linen. The web site had something to do with objects found > inserted into the walls of buildings, so maybe someone will recall it. > > Anyway, the thing that interested me was that the doublet was linen; I > usually think of outerwear for this period as being wool and nothing else. > Of course, there are linen jackets, etc., in Hart's _Costume in Detail_, > so clearly that's a gross oversimplification on my part . Mara, there are quite a few linen extant doublets. (well, 'quite a few' in relative terms :-) from the early 17th century. hey are usually unbleached though and there is a ovely heavily 'white-work' embroidered one in 'Fashion in detail', the V&A publication one. Then there are of course the embroidered linen jackets like Margaret Lawton's. Seems that when embroidery comes into play linen becomes more frequent. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 05:23:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA31702 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 05:23:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g999P13Y012903; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 03:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g999P0uE017782; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 03:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g999OvuE017761 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 03:24:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p154-nas4.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.208.154] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17zD5L-0000Hn-00; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:24:56 +1300 Message-ID: <002201c26f75$b9ee63a0$9ad0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:24:52 +1300 Status: RO > I'm now ready to choose my fabric for my 1873-5 evening dress (still > debating between ball & evening dress) & my big question is what type of > fabric would be the most suitable modern equivalent? I've been thinking > about silk tafetta (maybe even iridescent?) but am worried that it may be > too stiff to drape up over the bustle properly. Silk tafetta should be fine.. again it depends on the weight. But I have some white silk that is heavier and stiffer than lining weight but also less stiff than that crisp shot tafetta you used to be able to find everywhere. I'd make a full dress out of this if I had enough. I've read that it was > common to use 2 colours AND 2 materials. What combos were used other than > silk & velvet? I'd like to be able to wear this gown in all seasons & think > velvet would look strange in the summer. Well.. that did tend more todwards heavier fabrics and more for day wear. If you look in Fashion and Reality/Victorian and Edwardian Fashion: A Photographic Survey (same book, diff publishing titles) You'll see a lot of dull and matt or piled and lustrous fabrics used. These tend to be different shades of the same colour though. http://www.antique-fashion.com/0183.htm You could use the velvet in bands which means instead of looking like the whole dress is heavy, you'll just have accents. > As for colour, I read a list of colours from the period & there happened to > be a group 'Strawberry, Cream, Prune'- does that sound like a reasonable > combo or is it too wild? No doesn't sound too wild, especially if you think of them as water colours rather than heavy oil paints;) I know analine dyes were available and much loved.. but it you think of the three shades as being part of a family. You could use the strawberry as the base colour and the prune as trimming with the cream as accents.. say ruffles at the end of half sleeves, around the neck and rows alternating with the prune on the skirt. http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_52.htm http://www.vintagetextile.com/newpage510.htm Try that for striking colour! > I have read of Pink & Garnet in the Harper's Bazaar which is what seems to > be represented in several of Tissot's paintings. Was purple worn for > anything other than levels of mourning? I'm sure there is a deep purple gown mentioned in the first edition of Blanche Payne's History of costume. And there is a lilac dress in the painting The Fair Toxophilites (archers).. so I'd say yes. I think there were probably rules in regards to style and trimming that goes with wearing certain colours for mourning. http://www.antique-fashion.com/188.htm > So, another colour question is.. if your petticoat is white (bright white) & > some of the white shows beneath the hem as you move, what colour would any > lace accents on the body of the gown be? It seems that white would be too > stark on any colour. Or was their idea of a white petticoat not really > WHITE? Go for white.. or if you are wanting cream, add a cream trim to the bottom of the petticoat so that the white doesn't show through. See if you can reduce that near blue white too though. You know how glowing white our fabrics can be:) A tea dye might work well. http://www.vintagetextile.com/newpage91.htm see, mixing of cream and white was not a big issue so you can do it (no I do realise the colour of the dummy is showing through the bodice, look atthe apron drape and lace ruffles and the back of the skirt). Just make it part of the design And just a few more links that might help in colour/fabric decisions: http://www.antique-fashion.com/2082.htm http://www.victorianelegance.com/1800.html do scroll right through to http://www.victorianelegance.com/180010.html michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 06:07:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA31870 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:07:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99A823Y013956; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 04:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99A80uE026481; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 04:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99A7GuE026371 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 04:07:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-125-166.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.125.166]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALW58907; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:06:11 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00c501c26f7c$87363620$a67d4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:13:34 +0100 Status: RO >> I'm now ready to choose my fabric for my 1873-5 evening dress (still > debating between ball & evening dress) & my big question is what type of > fabric would be the most suitable modern equivalent? I've been thinking > about silk tafetta (maybe even iridescent?) but am worried that it may be > too stiff to drape up over the bustle properly. I use all sorts of fabrics and unless I actually used upolstery fabric #I think most work fine (I use curtains a lot) I've read that it was > common to use 2 colours AND 2 materials. What combos were used other than > silk & velvet? I'd like to be able to wear this gown in all seasons & think > velvet would look strange in the summer. I don't think it would look strange, but it would be hot, linen, cottons, brocades , wools, prints, it was the start of greater avalibility of fabrics, colours and machine sewing so they went mad & stuck things togerther we would find gross. :) >These tend to be different shades of the same colour though. http://www.antique-fashion.com/0183.htm I've seen high contacts colours used too, more often described though, the really OTT ideas tended to fade & I suspect lime green & orange dresses were seperated & re worked ;p >You could use the velvet in bands which means instead of looking like the whole dress is heavy, you'll just have accents. I have to confess I like heavy dressess with often 14 lbs undergarment the heavy look helps the movement to be correct > As for colour, I read a list of colours from the period & there happened to > be a group 'Strawberry, Cream, Prune'- does that sound like a reasonable > combo or is it too wild? Many recreations of dress are more modern colour coordinated that the Victorian coordination might have been. Colour is very much dependant on culture, so I have on set of 21st C eyes & another for 19th C. There isn't too wild in 19th C But you should wear combinations that YOU personally feel good about. The longer I do the period the wilder I get with colours :) > So, another colour question is.. if your petticoat is white (bright white) & > some of the white shows beneath the hem as you move, what colour would any > lace accents on the body of the gown be? It seems that white would be too > stark on any colour. Or was their idea of a white petticoat not really > WHITE? >Go for white.. or if you are wanting cream, add a cream trim to the bottom of the petticoat so that the white doesn't show through. See if you can reduce that near blue white too though. You know how glowing white our fabrics can be:) These are OBAs optical brightening Agents, white dyes which take in light and send it out optically brighter. Tip for any period Don't use modern washing powders with OBAs. Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 08:14:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32515 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:14:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99CG53Y018356; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99CG0uE025068; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99CFruE025034 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-002scfairp0066.dialsprint.net ([63.184.200.66] helo=faucet.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17zFkm-0006yO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 05:15:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3DA42BC7.C127FEB7@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Painting on Cloth Article (was Colored linen in the 14th century?) References: <20021008171221.T46632-100000@shell.siscom.net> <3DA357E1.15067.165475AC@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:14:47 -0500 Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > I think if you ask the author (Barbara Gordon), you would find that > she *wasn't* trying to prove that it was used on clothing. This may well be, but I would have been mislead into excitement as well--the key phrase in her intro is "[painted cloth] was used in period for all the same purposes as the more costly cloth." One major use of more costly cloth, and of course the one that springs first to _my_ mind, is clothing. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 08:17:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32540 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:17:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99CJ13Y018454; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99CJ0uE025816; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99CIcuE025727 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:18:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-002scfairp0066.dialsprint.net ([63.184.200.66] helo=faucet.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17zFnQ-0001P9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 05:18:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3DA42C6C.9C427FEE@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20021009085831.56323.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] concealed garments website (was Colored linen in the 14th century?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:17:31 -0500 Status: RO > --- Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > Well, this isn't 14th c., > but someone posted a link to the list (and I > > can't find it in my bookmarks, which desperately need weeding) about a > > man's doublet, dated to the early 17th century, made of a sort of > > grey-brown linen. The web site had something to do with objects found > > inserted into the walls of buildings, so maybe someone will recall it. I haven't seen this reposted to the list, so here it is: http://search.concealedgarments.org:8167/index.jsp Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 08:48:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32723 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:48:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Cn23Y019510; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Cn0uE003388; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99CmjuE003268 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:48:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12202 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 07:53:22 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: 17th c linen, was Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? In-Reply-To: <20021009085831.56323.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 07:53:22 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO > --- Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > Well, this isn't 14th c., but someone posted a link to the list (and I > > can't find it in my bookmarks, which desperately need weeding) about a > > man's doublet, dated to the early 17th century, made of a sort of > > grey-brown linen. The web site had something to do with objects found > > inserted into the walls of buildings, so maybe someone will recall it. Was that ? As to color, remember that finds like this are often grey-brown after centuries of burial. I didn't read this writeup myself, so I don't know if they tested the item for dyes. ========================================================== Robin Netherton // Editor at Large robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 09:42:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00493 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:42:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Dh33Y021739; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 07:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Dh1uE019021; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 07:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99DgCuE018736 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 07:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.143] (pm5-143.eos.net [205.133.149.143]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23319 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:42:11 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021009074200.27947.81081.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: block-printed anything Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:40:23 -0400 Status: RO All this talk of painted and block-printed fabric has me very curious. I can't access the article Drea posted (internet not working this morning for some reason) but I'll try again later, and I'll check out the Robinson book someone mentioned. But I am interested to find out whether these paint and ink treatments for furnishing fabrics was done by professionals. If so, was that their only business, or would it be done by people who also provided the expensive woven/embroidered cloths? Does anyone know? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 10:18:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00718 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:18:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99EJ43Y024016; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99EJ1uE002567; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99EIuuE002474 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.d5.1ea336c4 (4340) for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:18:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:18:45 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 10/8/02 11:53:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mercury@eagle.ca writes: << Or was their idea of a white petticoat not really WHITE? >> I LOVE a dark gown that shows a flash of white petticoat when the wearer walks, or waltzes. Taffeta is perfect. But most real Bustle gowns I've seen are of a thinner weave than the synthetics you get now. Also silk twill seems to be popular. As to colors and fabrics, I have read in a contemporary source that ALL gowns were of at least 2 fabrics [though maybe not two colors...like a plain taffeta with a matching or analogous brocade or jacquard] Stripes [small ones] are very popular. They show the drape of the bustle well. Two colors I see all the time [though not together on the same gown] in real gowns, no matter where they're from, is a Carolina blue and a sorta butterscotch/ bronze-like yellowy brown. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 10:21:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00731 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:21:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99EM13Y024216; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99EM0uE003783; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99ELvuE003732 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:21:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1a6.9e8ea2f (4340) for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:21:38 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a6.9e8ea2f.2ad59572@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:21:38 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 10/9/02 5:25:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: << You could use the strawberry as the base colour and the prune as trimming with the cream as accents. >> Mmmmmmm... dessert! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 10:29:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00772 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:29:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99EP53Y024460; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99EP1uE005069; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99EOKuE004763 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:24:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a254.in-tch.com [66.62.107.54]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g99E9FL13931 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:09:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DA43D8E.585EA824@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Dyeing experiments was [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:30:38 -0600 Status: RO Actually, the dyeing experiments have been endemic in my local (SCA) group this past summer, and I'm just one of the hangers-on around the folks who are more serious about it than I. I don't think any of it has been webbed, although we *do* have a baronial website, and I've got my digital camera. Hmmm..... We've had a lot of fun using all different kinds of natural dyes (some pre-17th c., some not). Logwood makes the most amazing, lovely purples; cochineal (pinks and reds); indigo (blues and greens--State laws/regulations forbid growing woad here [super-bad noxious weed in these parts], so we bought that); various local lichens and walnut hulls for an amazing range of lovely browns, as did cutch. Experiments with indigenous plants have been fun, too--dandelion flowers produce a screaming bright yellow (and an interesting bright green when overdyed with a couple of dips of indigo); tansy produces some great greens and yellows (depending on whether you're using the flowering part, or the leaves/stems). The only persistent disappointment has been our inability to get a good red from madder--we've tried root from a couple of different sources, and get the same results (various pinky-oranges/salmons), so we're suspecting it's our local water. We've been experimenting with different types of fibers and fabrics--wools, silks, some linen, some cotton. I'm planning on ordering some silk twill from Dharma for a gown or two. I'd love to do something in wool, as well, but have not been able to locate good wool fabric that's not already dyed black or done in navy pinstripes. *sigh* --Sue Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > >From what I've read, the Scots wore both wool and linen shirts in this > period, but I'd assume the leine was linen unless specified otherwise. > > The color was usually derived from weld, though maybe some really wealthy > people dyed their leinte with actual saffron. > > I'd love to see results of your weld dyeing experiment -- do you have them > posted anywhere? > > Also have seen a quote to the effect that the seams were embellished with > colored (red or green) silk thread, but that falls more in the realm of > embroidery than plain sewing ;) > > Cheers, > Mara > > On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Uh...without being able to pull out any actual, scholarly cites or > > anything (it was one of THOSE Mondays), what about the > > sumptuary/regulatory laws I've heard of in reference to "saffron shirts" > > for those people living in Ireland during certain periods of British > > rule? I've always assumed they'd be linen, but I suppose they could be a > > fine wool. Does anyone know? > > Mind you, I'm assuming that the *color* is saffron-ish, not the dye > > stuff. We've been experimenting this summer, and you can get some > > amazingly potent yellows and golds with tansy, or dandelion, or weld. > > --Sue > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 10:32:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00795 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:32:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99ES13Y024727; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99ES0uE006267; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99ER6uE005886 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:27:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.14b.158b0422 (4340) for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:26:04 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <14b.158b0422.2ad5967b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:26:03 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 10/9/02 6:09:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MelanieWilson@bigfoot.com writes: << I have to confess I like heavy dressess with often 14 lbs undergarment the heavy look helps the movement to be correct >> I must respectfully disagree here. All the real gowns I've seen are light. They move beautifully. Check out "Age of Innocence". The fabrics are light to medium weight. [well, except the winter wear]. For very early Bustles [say 1869 to 1870] Check out "The French Lieutenant's Woman". Light, crisp taffetas everywhere! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 11:44:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01186 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:44:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99FdG3Y000802; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:39:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Fd0uE012805; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g99FbxuE012130 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/On9L78khXSuLEAJ6oh1OnQI="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HEPKV648; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:37:12 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Painting on Cloth Article (was Colored linen in the 14th century?) Message-ID: <20021009.083535.-153087.4.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:06:41 +0000 Status: RO One of our Moorish-type Laurels here did a competition piece on the use of printed cloth for clothing items. Maybe Kat will remember more on this--it's been a few years. All I remember is that she said something about the use of stamping cloth to lay down a design. I don't recall what the ground fabric was. Nor if it was a culture-specific thing. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 11:49:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01231 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Fk43Y001414; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Fk2uE016835; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99FjFuE016390 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-105-209.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.105.209]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALS99086; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:43:09 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <029801c26fab$6291ac80$a4724ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <14b.158b0422.2ad5967b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:48:59 +0100 Status: RO >I must respectfully disagree here. I was refering to day wear rather than evening here, perhaps I wasn't clear ? Anyway the figures I've see for underwear are in that region of weight, although eveing from reading would be lighter I believe but not too much so some of the outerwear would have to have dense underwear to stop it being indecent I feel . Too light weight gowns outdoors in English conditions are a pain & blow about far too much. US in areas of still air (if there are any I don't know I afraid) might be different >All the real gowns I've seen are light. What real gowns are you talking about those produced in the era ? I'm unsure as I think the items you mention below are films and therefore not real in my sense of the word but I might well be misunderstanding you ? Then again out version of light may differ it is rather subjective ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 12:15:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01388 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99GF63Y004170; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99GF4Lc004475; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99GDOLc003473 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:13:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A668E40262; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:16:40 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A69B16740214; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:17:31 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01c26fae$de25b140$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <00c501c26f7c$87363620$a67d4ed5@melaniew> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:13:55 -0400 Status: RO I can't recall my source... I always like pink and maroon together. Then I found out that the two colors were not used together. They were considered bad taste. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 6:13 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown > >> I'm now ready to choose my fabric for my 1873-5 evening dress (still > > debating between ball & evening dress) & my big question is what type of > > fabric would be the most suitable modern equivalent? I've been thinking > > about silk tafetta (maybe even iridescent?) but am worried that it may be > > too stiff to drape up over the bustle properly. > > I use all sorts of fabrics and unless I actually used upolstery fabric #I > think most work fine (I use curtains a lot) > > I've read that it was > > common to use 2 colours AND 2 materials. What combos were used other than > > silk & velvet? I'd like to be able to wear this gown in all seasons & > think > > velvet would look strange in the summer. > > I don't think it would look strange, but it would be hot, linen, cottons, > brocades , wools, prints, it was the start of greater avalibility of > fabrics, colours and machine sewing so they went mad & stuck things > togerther we would find gross. :) > > >These tend to be different > shades of the same colour though. http://www.antique-fashion.com/0183.htm > > I've seen high contacts colours used too, more often described though, the > really OTT ideas tended to fade & I suspect lime green & orange dresses were > seperated & re worked ;p > > >You could use the velvet in bands which means instead of looking like the > whole dress is heavy, you'll just have accents. > > I have to confess I like heavy dressess with often 14 lbs undergarment the > heavy look helps the movement to be correct > > > As for colour, I read a list of colours from the period & there happened > to > > be a group 'Strawberry, Cream, Prune'- does that sound like a reasonable > > combo or is it too wild? > > Many recreations of dress are more modern colour coordinated that the > Victorian coordination might have been. Colour is very much dependant on > culture, so I have on set of 21st C eyes & another for 19th C. There isn't > too wild in 19th C But you should wear combinations that YOU personally feel > good about. The longer I do the period the wilder I get with colours :) > > > So, another colour question is.. if your petticoat is white (bright white) > & > > some of the white shows beneath the hem as you move, what colour would any > > lace accents on the body of the gown be? It seems that white would be too > > stark on any colour. Or was their idea of a white petticoat not really > > WHITE? > > >Go for white.. or if you are wanting cream, add a cream trim to the bottom > of the petticoat so that the white doesn't show through. See if you can > reduce that near blue white too though. You know how glowing white our > fabrics can be:) > > These are OBAs optical brightening Agents, white dyes which take in light > and send it out optically brighter. Tip for any period Don't use modern > washing powders with OBAs. > > Mel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 12:31:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01506 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:31:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99GW83Y005844; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:32:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99GW1Lc014667; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99GVVLc014357 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:31:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f14.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.20]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E0041264142 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:31:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c26fb1$7fba5e50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] dress diary. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:32:45 +0200 Status: RO Hello. For those of you, who are interrested, i have added new pictures of the new dressdiary of a robe a la francaise 1776. It is my new digital camera, who mastered the pictures, they are very fine and very true to the colours. I am very pleased. www.my-drewscostumes.dk\dressdiary.htm Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 12:42:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01560 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:42:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Gg23Y006891; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Gg1Os020858; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g99GfMOs020459 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 3329 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2002 16:41:21 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-253.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.166.66.253) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2002 16:41:21 -0000 Message-ID: <001301c26fb1$49106160$fd42a6d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: <3DA43D8E.585EA824@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dyeing experiments Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:31:10 -0400 Status: RO Experiments with > indigenous plants have been fun, too--dandelion flowers produce a > screaming bright yellow (and an interesting bright green when overdyed > with a couple of dips of indigo); tansy produces some great greens and > yellows (depending on whether you're using the flowering part, or the > leaves/stems). Actually, dandelions are not indigenous - they were brought over from Europe as a salad plant. Tansy was also available in Europe in the Middle Ages. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 12:45:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01571 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Gk53Y007347; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Gk2Os023327; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99GjXOs022965 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:45:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip154.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.154] (may be forged)) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g99GjQm08069 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:45:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Painting on Cloth Article (was Colored linen in the 14th century?) Message-ID: <3DA3FB4A.29674.18D2E18D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021009.083535.-153087.4.Cley@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:47:54 -0700 Status: RO > One of our Moorish-type Laurels here did a competition piece on the > use of printed cloth for clothing items. Maybe Kat will remember more > on this--it's been a few years. All I remember is that she said > something about the use of stamping cloth to lay down a design. I > don't recall what the ground fabric was. Nor if it was a > culture-specific thing. Sorry, I don't recall that. I may not have judged that piece (and I tend to remember the ones I judge even when the other pieces done by the same person are interesting.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 13:05:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01660 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:05:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99H673Y009426; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99H60Os005195; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99H5sOs005073 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:05:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-112.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.112]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4692C8089 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:05:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3DA461EC.6080201@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. References: <000d01c26fb1$7fba5e50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 19:05:48 +0200 Status: RO Hi, The link is not working :-( Greetings, Deredere http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/ Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hello. >For those of you, who are interrested, i have added new pictures of the new >dressdiary of a robe a la francaise 1776. >It is my new digital camera, who mastered the pictures, they are very fine >and very true to the colours. >I am very pleased. >www.my-drewscostumes.dk\dressdiary.htm > >Bjarne > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 13:11:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01708 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:11:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99HC13Y009931; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99HC0Os008649; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99HBsOs008567 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:11:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A41B59EE00AC; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 12:15:07 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A44F45300BE; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 12:15:59 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c26fb7$092ae6a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000d01c26fb1$7fba5e50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:12:23 -0400 Status: RO Bjarne, The photos aren't showing up. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:32 PM Subject: [h-cost] dress diary. > Hello. > For those of you, who are interrested, i have added new pictures of the new > dressdiary of a robe a la francaise 1776. > It is my new digital camera, who mastered the pictures, they are very fine > and very true to the colours. > I am very pleased. > www.my-drewscostumes.dk\dressdiary.htm > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 21:54:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04889 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:54:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A1U93Y018755; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A1U27m012197; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A1Tu7m012163 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:29:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15781 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:34:35 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coloured Linen in general In-Reply-To: <94.2dfb9b57.2ad5d254@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:34:35 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 LSinervo@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for the referral to the archives! I shall have a look. When > one enters a converation late one doesn't know that the simple > question "Did coloured linen in the 14th century exist?" assumes the > exclusion of fancy dress items, printed wall hangings, tea towels, > stitching thread, embroidery thread and garments worn at a game of > swans on the fifth of May. Now I understand the question! Looking back, I see that it's true that the first post on this thread did ask only whether linen was dyed at all in this period ... but the issue of whether people used colored linen as a primary garment fabric has been addressed so often here in the past few years that I think most of us just fell naturally back into that conversation. After all, most of us are pretty single-mindedly focused on clothes (rather than banners, furnishings, etc.) and we try to be careful not to generalize too far across textile categories. Looking back, though, I gather the initial poster had probably picked up from our earlier, clothing-focused threads the thought that there was no evidence that linen was dyed at all. And thus the confusion -- some of us talking about dyed linen in general, and others of us pointing out that all the examples were of non-clothing items and so weren't relevant to the question at hand (since *our* questions at hand usually relate to clothing only). Plus some of us knew that the original poster is working on a specific costume project, and so we automatically translated her actual question (did they dye linen?) into the one we figured she was *really* asking (did they dye linen for clothing?) I think we actually had two or three conversations going on here, only we all thought we were part of the same one ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 21:55:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04900 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:55:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A0t23Y016960; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A0t17m001297; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9A0sV7m001153 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:54:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtTfKDtfePnFAUupTrN/63s="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HEQKR9R3; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:54:18 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021009.175309.-153087.5.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,8-32 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: [h-cost] subscribe info sought Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:43:36 +0000 Status: RO Would someone please be so kind as to send me subscribe information off-list? Thanks! Arlys On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:18:46 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Hi Melanie Schuessler > I followed the link in one of your postings about using eylet holes, > to > secure garments, and i visited other sites at your websites. > I was quite surprised when i looked at your beautifull renaissance > pictures, > your work is really beautifull. I loved particularly the embroidered > doublet > bodice you made. > And i really found your starching of a ruff quite interresting. This > was a > very good idea you had using a hair iron, to starch the ruff with. I > must > try that some time. > Loved your costumes! > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 21:56:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04910 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:56:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A1v23Y020127; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A1v17m020653; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from proxy.ea.gov.au (proxy.ea.gov.au [155.187.2.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A1uA7m020350 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from parkes07.ea.gov.au ([155.187.160.26]) by proxy.ea.gov.au (8.9.2/EAFWv1) with SMTP id LAA00956 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:50:25 +1000 (EST) Received: from EA-Message_Server by parkes07.ea.gov.au with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:56:32 +1000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 From: "Annette Wilson" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] coloured linen Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:52:55 +1000 Status: RO Hi all, I found a reference to linen clothes in a facimile copy of Tacuinum Sanitatas (ca. 1400?). It's at home, I'm at work, so excuse the relatively vague comments. My facimile is basically a picture book with captions, but two of the illustrations refer to "Wool clothing" and "Linen Clothing" (a third page, not illustrated, is "Silk clothing"). The caption says in part (paraphrasing) Linen's nature is cold and dry, and it is recommended for wear by the young and in southern climes. The illustrations shows 4 women, 3 in coloured garments, 1 in white, cutting white linen. Incidently, the wool caption includes the comment that wool clothing can irritate the skin. Given that there is no mention of undergarments in either caption, I'm inclined to think that the book is referring to linen outer garments, but that's speculation of course. This seems like a fruitful avenue of research, because numerous versions of this work exist and other text versions may give more info. This has been an interesting discussion so far. Annette Wilson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 21:56:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04915 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A1vH3Y020161; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:57:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A1vG7m020756; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:57:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A1uR7m020475 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:56:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m230.in-tch.com [216.166.191.230]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9A1fML00263 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DA4DFC7.2DE520E2@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] apologises wrong URL References: <000701c26fce$ccdb85c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <033f01c26fcf$64033380$cb604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:02:47 -0600 Status: RO Nope. There's at least two. The second (my contribution): "I'm not worthy....I'm not worthy....I'm not worthy...." --sue Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > > Bjarne, there really is only one thing to say about your work. > > Wow. > > Dianne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:02 PM > Subject: [h-cost] apologises wrong URL > > > I am really really sorry of the mess i made. New computer and new program. > > But now it works, promise!!! > > Go to: www.my-drewscostumes.dk and click your way to it. > > > > Sorry > > Bjarne > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 21:58:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04923 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:58:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A0Z13Y015886; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A0Z07m024613; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A0YT7m024475 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p53-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.212.53] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17zRHX-0000Kv-00; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:34:27 +1300 Message-ID: <006501c26ff4$c6f762c0$35d4adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <00c901c26f7c$96dd2b60$a67d4ed5@melaniew> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:34:20 +1300 Status: RO > Thanks for the great links ! Those are two of my favourite sites to go look for stuning costumes.. there is far more that is just so breathtaking that I'd wind up linking to nearly the whole site;) As far as heavy goes.. hehehe, seems to be some problems with what is infered being different to what is being implied:) I realise myself that I use a bit of short hand and tend to assume people know what i'm referring too;) When I used the word heavy I was referring to the look of the garment in that too much velvet on a gown meant for evening and used in summer and spring could look too dark, and heavy. Just as in Fashion and Reality there is a late 1880s tulle gown with a wool shawl that looks too heavy for the lightness of the dress:) That said, a little bit of something heavy can contrast nicely.. like velvet and there seems to have been a fashion in the early/mid 1880s for a white dress trimmed with black at the neck and cuffs. I've seen some where the trim was fur:) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 21:58:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04926 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:58:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A0Xt3Y015805; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:33:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A0Xr7m024227; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A0WFRk023569 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.142] (as3-4-156.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.142]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g9A0WD009504 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:12:40 -0700 Status: RO At 9:47 PM -0700 10/8/02, Chris Laning wrote: >At 1:34 PM -0700 10/8/02, Heather Rose Jones wrote: >>Most of the printed linens I've seen (which I'd love to experiment >>with at some point!) give a strong impression of being furnishings. >>I do have one example ... and this is going to sound familiar after >>my previous post ... of a block-printed chasuble from the 15th or >>16th century, but I think it was cotton rather than linen -- I'd >>need to check my photocopies when I get home. > >If it's the chasuble of St. Ulrich from Lucerne, it's block-printed >wool. The fabric is blue-green and is printed in black with >palmettes and other motifs similar to those in contemporary >(14th-15thc.) Italian silks. The printed pattern goes across seams >in some cases, indicating it was printed after the chasuble was sewn >together. This chasuble is still used each year in a blessing >ceremony where it is held up like a canopy for people to walk >underneath. Nope, the one I'm thinking of is red printed on white. Still haven't gotten around to looking up the notes when I'm at home. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 21:58:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04930 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:58:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99N733Y010882; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99N70Rk022715; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99N6cRk022547 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:06:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.181.fe3ba78 (26116) for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:06:29 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <181.fe3ba78.2ad61075@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_181.fe3ba78.2ad61075_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:06:29 EDT Status: RO --part1_181.fe3ba78.2ad61075_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/9/02 3:11:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk writes: > I had a quick flick through and I couldn't find anything. I wonder if > you would get any linen fibres attached to brooches etc? That would > tend to indicate an outer garment. But maybe linen would disintegrate > with the corrosion? It's difficult when some fibres survive and others > don't, to get a good picture of relative proportions originally used. > I stand corrected re the MoL book than, it has been about two years since I have seen it. It is not the use of linen as an outer garment that I am adamant about, just that coloured linen certainly existed in the 14th century and was fairly common, see tablet woven band email. Exactly what class wore it, when and where is something I shall keep an eye out for in the future. Lisa --part1_181.fe3ba78.2ad61075_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/9/02 3:11:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk writes:


I had a quick flick through and I couldn't find anything.  I wonder if
you would get any linen fibres attached to brooches etc?  That would
tend to indicate an outer garment.  But maybe linen would disintegrate
with the corrosion?  It's difficult when some fibres survive and others
don't, to get a good picture of relative proportions originally used.


I stand corrected re the MoL book than, it has been about two years since I have seen it.  It is not the use of linen as an outer garment that I am adamant about, just that coloured linen certainly existed in the 14th century and was fairly common, see tablet woven band email.  Exactly what class wore it, when and where is something I shall keep an eye out for in the future. 

Lisa --part1_181.fe3ba78.2ad61075_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 21:58:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04933 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:58:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99MX23Y008206; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99MX1Rk006100; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99MWYRk005842 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.123.181c9a71 (3858) for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:32:21 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <123.181c9a71.2ad60875@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:32:21 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 10/9/02 6:30:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << So many costumes are made from upholstery stuff and are just plain clunky that "light" as far as I mean, is not meant to mean diaphanous. >> This has GOT to be one of the clumsiest sentences ever written! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 21:58:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04936 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:58:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99MT53Y007867; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99MT0Rk004104; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99MScRk003883 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.118.18dfe1fa (3858) for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:28:24 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <118.18dfe1fa.2ad60787@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:28:23 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 10/9/02 11:46:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MelanieWilson@bigfoot.com writes: << What real gowns are you talking about those produced in the era ? I'm unsure as I think the items you mention below are films and therefore not real >> I meant actual period stuff. Then went on to give examples that are not "real" that one could look at in motion....on film. I understand better what you mean now. So many costumes are made from upholstery stuff and are just plain clunky that "light" as far as I mean, is not meant to mean diaphanous. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:01:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04962 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:01:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99IG63Y015587; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99IG0Os014758; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gwdomain.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99IFHOs014397 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by gwdomain.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 13:15:17 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Costume sale in DC area Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 13:15:10 -0500 Status: RO This was posted on another newsgroup and I thought folks here might also be interested. I would love to go! Hope someone here can and will give us a report. Best of luck. -Catherine Hi all- I work for the Shakespeare Theatre Costume Shop, and just wanted to invite you all to our upcoming Costume and Prop sale! We are clearing out a lot of inventory (going all the way back to when we were at the Folger Theater!), and there is something for everyone! Costumes, hats, fabric, trim, leather, etc. Please come! Shakespeare Theatre Costume and Prop Sale! -Saturday, October 12, 11:00am to 6:00 pm (Columbus Day weekend) -507 8th Street SE, Washington, DC (rehearsal studio) The rehearsal studio is accessible via the Eastern Market (orange and blue lines) Metro station We accept all major credit cards, personal checks and cash! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:01:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04965 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:01:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99INB3Y016214; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99INAOs018756; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99A7euE026436 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 04:07:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-125-166.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.125.166]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALW58947; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:06:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00c901c26f7c$96dd2b60$a67d4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:14:00 +0100 Status: RO Michaela Thanks for the great links ! Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:03:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04971 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:03:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99M783Y006003; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:07:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99M70Rk022372; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99M6nRk022284 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:06:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17zOye-000DVc-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:06:49 +0100 Message-ID: <9$OxU5BdfKp9IwYA@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? References: <1a7.9cc21df.2ad3d332@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1a7.9cc21df.2ad3d332@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:04:13 +0100 Status: RO LSinervo@aol.com wrote >In a message dated 10/7/02 11:13:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > I can not find any clear examples of linen outer garments in TEXTILES > AND CLOTHING.  The chapter on linen shows some extant linen > swatches, but > the text suggests that they are household linens > > >I thought there was an example of a garment that had a tablet woven edge >on it that was of linen.  I don't have a copy of the book on hand, but I >thought for sure I remembered seeing that.  I could be wrong. I had a quick flick through and I couldn't find anything. I wonder if you would get any linen fibres attached to brooches etc? That would tend to indicate an outer garment. But maybe linen would disintegrate with the corrosion? It's difficult when some fibres survive and others don't, to get a good picture of relative proportions originally used. -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:04:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04982 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:04:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99LI33Y001544; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99LI1Rk025665; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99LHCRk025188 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f14.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.20]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 68A404810BB for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:17:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <006a01c26fd9$749a70a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] how to starch a ruff. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:18:46 +0200 Status: RO Hi Melanie Schuessler I followed the link in one of your postings about using eylet holes, to secure garments, and i visited other sites at your websites. I was quite surprised when i looked at your beautifull renaissance pictures, your work is really beautifull. I loved particularly the embroidered doublet bodice you made. And i really found your starching of a ruff quite interresting. This was a very good idea you had using a hair iron, to starch the ruff with. I must try that some time. Loved your costumes! Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:04:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04986 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:04:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99LS13Y002527; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99LS0Rk001331; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99LR1Rk000783 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17zOM8-000AmI-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:27:00 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] seam finishes References: <20021007141047.62760.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> <001c01c26e50$4dc9b920$5e42a6d0@default> <4.3.1.2.20021007163336.00c90ec0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021007163336.00c90ec0@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:58:28 +0100 Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote > >>but have seen some >> > serger finishes that have pulled off the edge of the >> > fabric. Sometimes the seam allowances are cut so >> > narrow to accomodate the seam and overcast in one >> > stitch (sorry, don't know what it's called) that the >> > seams pull out and then fray. >> >>This just happened to me with a fairly new linen gown that I am quite >>pleased with otherwise. I discovered at an event this weekend that the back >>of the armhole seam had come apart on the right side (since it was rather >>cold, I kept a houplande on over it all day so no one could see it, but in >>warmer weather, I wear it alone.) > >(Off the point entirely, and trying to be funny,) But aren't mends and >patches period? > > >Kayta > Our motto was always "dirt is period" ! -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:07:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04997 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:06:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99K253Y024962; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99K21Os013049; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99K10Os012496 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f14.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.20]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AC54E4807A9 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:00:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c26fce$ccdb85c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] apologises wrong URL Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:02:30 +0200 Status: RO I am really really sorry of the mess i made. New computer and new program. But now it works, promise!!! Go to: www.my-drewscostumes.dk and click your way to it. Sorry Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:07:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05000 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:07:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99KA43Y025576; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99KA2Os017448; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99K9IOs017034 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6A7E10F7BC for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip203.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.203]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4041210F740 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <033f01c26fcf$64033380$cb604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <000701c26fce$ccdb85c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] apologises wrong URL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:06:44 -0400 Status: RO Bjarne, there really is only one thing to say about your work. Wow. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:02 PM Subject: [h-cost] apologises wrong URL > I am really really sorry of the mess i made. New computer and new program. > But now it works, promise!!! > Go to: www.my-drewscostumes.dk and click your way to it. > > Sorry > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:09:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05012 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:09:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Ig83Y017789; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:42:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99Ig1Os028829; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g99IfWOs028491 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.94.2dfb9b57 (3972) for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:41:25 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <94.2dfb9b57.2ad5d254@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_94.2dfb9b57.2ad5d254_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Subject: [h-cost] Coloured Linen in Medieval Tablet Woven Bands Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:41:24 EDT Status: RO --part1_94.2dfb9b57.2ad5d254_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the referral to the archives! I shall have a look. When one enters a converation late one doesn't know that the simple question "Did coloured linen in the 14th century exist?" assumes the exclusion of fancy dress items, printed wall hangings, tea towels, stitching thread, embroidery thread and garments worn at a game of swans on the fifth of May. Now I understand the question! FYI The book Ecclesiastical Pomp & Aristocratic Circumstance - A Thousand Years of Brocaded Tabletwoven Bands by Nancy Spies documents a number of extant bands and the ones with coloured linen follow: Braunschweig , Herzog Anton Ulrich Museum 15th century Weft: blue linen Halberstadt, ?Halberrstadt Cathedral Treasury 13th/14th century Weft: green linen Brixen Cathedral Treasury, Brixen (Bressanone), Italy 13th century warp: dark brown linen weft: dark brown linen Museo Textil i d'Indumentaria, Barcelona, Spain 13th century weft: yellow and maroon linen Kloster St. Andreas, Sarnen, Switzerland 14th century weft: blue or white linen Einsiedeln, Benediktinerkloster 15th century Warp: white and blue linen Sion (Sitten), Eglise de Valere 15th Century Brocade wefts: "spun-gold membrane" around reddish linen core Church Onze-Lieve-Vrouw Hemelvaart, St. Truiden, Belgium 13th/14th century weft: blue linen She also states "It would be unwise to base any definite conclusions concerning sites of manufacture strictly on the type of threads utilized in brocaded tabletwoven bands because the threads, both the expensive silks and metallics, as well as the fine wools and linens, were available all over Europe from the time of the Roman Empire, either in fabric form which could be unraveled or in actual skein form, ready for weaving. The only prohibition to their use would have been the cost involved in obtaining them. Further, it is important to keep in mind, especially concerning the earliest brocaded bands, that the weavers would probably have simply used the materials at hand rather than obtaining threas towards this specific purpose. This idea is supported by quite a few examples of historical bands on which different brocading wefts were added apparently at random with little or no regard to the design being woven. In these cases, the weavers seem to have used whatever threads were available." Lisa --part1_94.2dfb9b57.2ad5d254_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the referral to the archives!  I shall have a look.  When one enters a converation late one doesn't know that the simple question "Did coloured linen in the 14th century exist?" assumes the exclusion of  fancy dress items, printed wall hangings, tea towels, stitching thread, embroidery thread and garments worn at a game of swans on the fifth of May.  Now I understand the question! 

FYI

The book Ecclesiastical Pomp & Aristocratic Circumstance - A Thousand Years of Brocaded Tabletwoven Bands by Nancy Spies documents a number of extant bands and the ones with coloured linen follow:

Braunschweig , Herzog Anton Ulrich Museum
15th century
Weft: blue linen

Halberstadt, ?Halberrstadt Cathedral Treasury
13th/14th century
Weft:  green linen

Brixen Cathedral Treasury, Brixen (Bressanone), Italy
13th century
warp: dark brown linen
weft: dark brown linen

Museo Textil i d'Indumentaria, Barcelona, Spain
13th century
weft: yellow and maroon linen

Kloster St. Andreas, Sarnen, Switzerland
14th century
weft: blue or white linen

Einsiedeln, Benediktinerkloster
15th century
Warp: white and blue linen

Sion (Sitten), Eglise de Valere
15th Century
Brocade wefts: "spun-gold membrane" around reddish linen core

Church Onze-Lieve-Vrouw Hemelvaart, St. Truiden, Belgium
13th/14th century
weft: blue linen

She also states "It would be unwise to base any definite conclusions concerning sites of manufacture strictly on the type of threads utilized in brocaded tabletwoven bands because the threads, both the expensive silks and metallics,  as well as the fine wools and linens, were available all over Europe from the time of the Roman Empire, either in fabric form which could be unraveled or in actual skein form, ready for weaving.  The only prohibition to their use would have been the cost involved in obtaining them.  Further, it is important to keep in mind, especially concerning the earliest brocaded bands, that the weavers would probably have simply used the materials at hand rather than obtaining threas towards this specific purpose.  This idea is supported by quite a few examples of historical bands on which different brocading wefts were added apparently at random with little or no regard to the design being woven.  In these cases, the weavers seem t! o have used whatever threads were available."

Lisa --part1_94.2dfb9b57.2ad5d254_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:20:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05086 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:20:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2L23Y021352; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2L07m027510; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2KH7m027280 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:20:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.142] (as3-4-156.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.142]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g9A2KF020254 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9$OxU5BdfKp9IwYA@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> References: <1a7.9cc21df.2ad3d332@aol.com> <9$OxU5BdfKp9IwYA@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:58:17 -0700 Status: RO At 11:04 PM +0100 10/9/02, Jean Waddie wrote: >LSinervo@aol.com wrote >>In a message dated 10/7/02 11:13:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >>r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: >> I can not find any clear examples of linen outer garments in TEXTILES >> AND CLOTHING. The chapter on linen shows some extant linen >> swatches, but >> the text suggests that they are household linens >> >> >>I thought there was an example of a garment that had a tablet woven edge >>on it that was of linen. I don't have a copy of the book on hand, but I >>thought for sure I remembered seeing that. I could be wrong. > >I had a quick flick through and I couldn't find anything. I wonder >if you would get any linen It sounds like the item being recalled is the strip with buttonholes and a tablet-woven edging in figure 135. The main fabric on that piece is wool, with a linen lining (and the tablet-woven edging in silk). Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:21:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05094 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:21:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2LJ3Y021370; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:21:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2LJ7m027607; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2KJ7m027304 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.142] (as3-4-156.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.142]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g9A2KH020331 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9A2KJ7m027304 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:11:08 -0700 Status: RO At 1:34 PM -0700 10/8/02, Heather Rose Jones wrote: >Most of the printed linens I've seen (which I'd love to experiment >with at some point!) give a strong impression of being furnishings. >I do have one example ... and this is going to sound familiar after >my previous post ... of a block-printed chasuble from the 15th or >16th century, but I think it was cotton rather than linen -- I'd >need to check my photocopies when I get home. Just to tie up this loose end ... The item is published in: Zwillinger, Thomas. 1996. Textile Kunst aus tausend Jahren. Köln, Greven. catalog no. P 2 My recollection was slightly off -- the fabric has a linen warp and cotton weft, and the printing is done in brown, according to the text. (The photo shows it as slightly reddish, but this may be a printing drift.) The boundaries between the printing blocks are quite visible, due to relatively sloppy registration, and the pattern goes in opposite directions on the left and right sides of the garment, so I'd interpret that as meaning it was printed as yardage, not after the garment was made. The pattern is reminiscent of 15th c. Italian silk brocades. The text discusses the purpose of vestments of this type with the following (translated from the German on the fly -- so forgive minor errors): "The use of linen or cotton as the ground-fabric of a liturgical garment was explained in the 19th century with the label of the so-called "plague-chasuble", which -- because it was easier to clean -- would be worn during visitations in plague-time. According to Jutta Zander-Seidel, it is more likely that they were used for ordinary masses in the church-year, while expensive silk garments were reserved for high feast days." Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:23:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05109 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:23:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2O13Y021552; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2O17m028410; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2NL7m028176 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:23:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m230.in-tch.com [216.166.191.230]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9A28HL10209 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:08:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DA4E616.16CA0D9@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dyeing experiments References: <3DA43D8E.585EA824@in-tch.com> <001301c26fb1$49106160$fd42a6d0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:29:42 -0600 Status: RO Uh...well, indigenous as in "growing in my yard so I didn't have to pay for it?" We also have to deal with other interlopers like knapweed (great honey, decent green dye, horribly invasive weed). I knew tansy was also medieval (from recipes). That was, in part, one of the reasons we played with it. That, and it grows everywhere in my neighborhood--it really seems to like water and there are a couple of irrigation ditches/creeks (pronounced "cricks" ) in my area. It's cool stuff. --sue Janet Davis wrote: > > Experiments with > > indigenous plants have been fun, too--dandelion flowers produce a > > screaming bright yellow (and an interesting bright green when overdyed > > with a couple of dips of indigo); tansy produces some great greens and > > yellows (depending on whether you're using the flowering part, or the > > leaves/stems). > > Actually, dandelions are not indigenous - they were brought over from Europe > as a salad plant. Tansy was also available in Europe in the Middle Ages. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:35:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05166 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:35:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2a23Y022230; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2a17m001942; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2Z67m001744 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-014scfairp0084.dialsprint.net ([63.183.136.84] helo=faucet.net) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17zTAH-0004Z9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 19:35:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3DA4F526.40CED179@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] how to starch a ruff. References: <006a01c26fd9$749a70a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:33:57 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi Melanie Schuessler > I followed the link in one of your postings about using eylet holes, to > secure garments, and i visited other sites at your websites. > I was quite surprised when i looked at your beautifull renaissance pictures, > your work is really beautifull. I loved particularly the embroidered doublet > bodice you made. Why thank you! If I could embroider at anything like your level, I would take more close-ups of my work! ;) > And i really found your starching of a ruff quite interresting. This was a > very good idea you had using a hair iron, to starch the ruff with. I must > try that some time. Oh yes--it's great fun. Well, all right, not so fun after the first couple of hours but VERY satisfying. I love having a ruff that looks _right_ to me. I've been looking at your dress diary, and I join the rest of the list in saying OOooooohhhhh..... aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh..... Can't wait to see the finished product! Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 9 22:56:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05253 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:56:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2v33Y023299; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2v27m007976; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A2uN7m007791 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:56:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16092 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:01:02 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] coloured linen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:01:02 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Annette Wilson wrote: > I found a reference to linen clothes in a facimile copy of Tacuinum > Sanitatas (ca. 1400?)... > My facimile is basically a picture book with captions, but two of the > illustrations refer to "Wool clothing" and "Linen Clothing" (a third > page, not illustrated, is "Silk clothing"). > The caption says in part (paraphrasing) Linen's nature is cold and dry, > and it is recommended for wear by the young and in southern climes. > The illustrations shows 4 women, 3 in coloured garments, 1 in white, > cutting white linen. > Incidently, the wool caption includes the comment that wool clothing > can irritate the skin. Given that there is no mention of undergarments > in either caption, I'm inclined to think that the book is referring to > linen outer garments, but that's speculation of course. > This seems like a fruitful avenue of research, because numerous > versions of this work exist and other text versions may give more info. Yes, this is a fruitful set of sources, and the fact that the text and the illustrations have different cultures of origin adds some interesting variables. I posted an off-the-cuff analysis of the linen references in several of the Tacuinum manuscripts when this topic came up a couple of years ago. Following is the relevant part of my post from July 1999 under the subject line "Use of linen in Italy and elsewhere". The rest of the post (and thread) are easy to locate in the archives under that subject line. In looking over the archived version, I see that a few lines of the text from this section of the post was dropped; I've restored the missing bits from my own copy, here. (Eric the archive-keeper knows about the dropped line problem; it happens in some posts in which there's a colon close to the beginning of the line. For that reason, I'm replacing the problematic colons in this post with two periods in a row like this .. so the archived version of *this* post won't drop the same lines. The quote starts here: << ... it does occur to me that if linen were commonly used for gowns anywhere, it would be in Italy, where summers are hotter and longer. Which brings me to the only bit of evidence I *have* found for linen being used for clothing, at least since I started watching for these references. This is the Italian reference I mentioned earlier, but it might not technically be Italian at all. It's from the Tacuinum Sanitatus, sometimes called the Medieval Health Handbook (and published in a nice art book by that name, also in another art book called The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti). This manual lists maybe a hundred different influences -- foods, weather conditions, emotions, etc. -- and describes their health effects. The manuscripts are in Latin and the existing manuscripts are from Italy, but the original text was apparently Arabic, and it may have its origin or connections in Southern Spain. There's an entry for wool clothing (vestis lanea), one for silk clothing (vestis de sete), and one for linen clothing (vestis linea). Not all extant manuscripts have all the same combinations of entries. The translations I have differ slightly from one of my sources to the other, which may reflect a different source manuscript that translated the Arabic into Latin differently, or it may be just a different English translation of the same source manuscript. Here are the translations I have. Version (1) is from "The Medieval Health Handbook," by Luisa Cogliati Arano; version (2) is from "The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti," trans. by Judith Spencer. (1) Wool clothing. Nature: Warm and dry. Optimum: The thin kind from Flanders. Usefulness: It protects the body from cold and holds warmth. Dangers: It causes skin irritation. Neutralization of the Dangers.. With thin linen clothing. (2) Woolen clothes. Clothes are suited to _praeparatio aeri_, or the adaptation of the climate to life, which is one of the seven things essential to good health. Clothes made of wool, whose nature is warm and dry, are beneficial in the winter to old people, life in Northern regions, cold constitutions, all things that, of the four elements, correspond to water. These clothes, especially those in fine Flemish wool which are to be preferred, draw the inner heat from the body and keep it warm. The advantage of wool can also be a disadvantage: as too much warmth is harmful, wear a thin linen garment under the wool. (2) Silk clothes. Silk clothing is very luxurious and grand. It is highly valued and equally highly priced and for this reason it cannot be worn by peasants, but only by noble men and women and esteemed and prominent citizens. _In medicina_, according to medical science, everything that was said about woolen clothes applies equally to silk ones, for the nature of silk, like that of wool, is hot and dry. Wool, however, is said to be better than silk for covering the head at night. (1) Linen clothing. Nature: Cold and dry in the second degree. Optimum.. The light, splendid, beautiful kind. Usefulness: It moderates the heat of the body. Dangers: It presses down on the skin and blocks transpiration. Neutralization of the Dangers: By mixing it with silk. Effects.. It dries up ulcerations. It is primarily good for hot temperaments, for the young, in Summer, and in the Southern regions. (2) Linen clothes. Linen clothes are very suitable for the summer: they are light, splendid, and attactive. The women will see to the making of them, working rapidly and wisely with scissors and needle. Linen clothes are useful in keeping the body at a moderate temperature and they help to dry out ulcers, but they press on the skin and prevent the exhalation of vapors. For this reason it is wiser to make clothes from cloth that has a mixture of linen and silk, which also looks dazzlingly elegant. So, that last bit might serve as some supporting evidence that linen was used for gowns, not just underwear, in Southern European summers. But it's not definitive. Interestingly, the illumination in the edition I have here, which was taken from a Northern Italian manuscript of the Tacuinum, shows seamstresses at work cutting plain white linen from a bolt, and sewing plain white linen. The shapes of the pieces are not recognizable as any particular kind of clothing, just yardage. By contrast, the page on wool in one manuscript shows a male tailor fitting a man's red gown, and his assistant is working on a greyish-blue gown, while a green gown lies on a table. In the wool illustration in another Tacuinum manuscript from the same region, the scene is much the same, but shows bolts as well as finished garments, of red and blue, again being sewn and fitted by men to men. So there's always the chance that while the Arabic text referred to use of linen gowns, the Northern Italian illuminator may have known linen only in its bleached form, which may have been sewn (by women) into underwear rather than tailored (by men) into gowns. It's impossible to tell for sure, from this little sliver of information, but there's also not enough here to definitively support the idea of dyed linen for gowns. The silk workshop scene is similar to the wool ones, with a male tailor and assistant and a row of hanging garments, but their colors are red, blue, pink, and white with a pattern (quilted? hard to tell), and the customer is female, wearing pink. So, some of those pinks in paintings may represent silks. (Some of these pictures have shown up over the years in the Medieval Woman series of calendars and daybooks.) >> (Thus endeth the quote.) If I ever get around to doing a serious study of this, I'd want to compare the text and art of all the extant Tacuinums on these three entries. (I know of five illuminated copies; I don't know if there are any contemporaneous copies of the text without illuminations). These bits are tantalizing, though, as much for what they don't specify as for what they do, and for the possible discordance between text and art. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 00:16:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05612 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:16:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A4H43Y027312; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A4H17m001596; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A4Gm7m001509 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:16:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AFF0BF2300C0; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:20:00 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A026B1201FC; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:20:54 -0500 Message-ID: <009c01c27013$ea9de0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000d01c26fb1$7fba5e50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:17:15 -0400 Status: RO Bjarne, You do such beautiful work!!!!! I am green with envy! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 00:43:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05765 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A4i23Y028551; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A4i17m008945; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A4hG7m008788 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:43:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m118.in-tch.com [216.166.191.118]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9A4SCL00772 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:28:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DA506E0.212C3537@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. References: <000d01c26fb1$7fba5e50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <009c01c27013$ea9de0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:49:36 -0600 Status: RO Geez, Penny, doesn't that -uhm- clash just a little with the color of your hair? See, if you were a plain old boring brunette like me, you could be camo-shades of envy green (like me), and you wouldn't clash! ;-P --sue, charter member of bjarne fan club Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Bjarne, > > You do such beautiful work!!!!! I am green with envy! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 01:11:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05995 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:11:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A5C13Y000432; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A5C07m016093; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A5Bp7m016052 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:11:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id ACD749DF013A; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:15:03 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AD111A84022C; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:16:01 -0500 Message-ID: <00ba01c2701b$9b8e0900$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000d01c26fb1$7fba5e50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <009c01c27013$ea9de0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DA506E0.212C3537@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:12:19 -0400 Status: RO Now, Sue... I would claim to be Bjarne's #1 fan... but my asst. Susan took that spot! I think she has also become Michaela's #1 fan too! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 01:58:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06225 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:58:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A5x13Y007805; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A5x07m000685; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A5wL7m000568 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:58:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-7.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.7]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALT36659; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:56:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <03e601c27022$8d58c800$a4724ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <00c501c26f7c$87363620$a67d4ed5@melaniew> <002e01c26fae$de25b140$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:02:01 +0100 Status: RO >I can't recall my source... I always like pink and maroon together. Then I found out that the two colors were not used together. They were considered bad taste. Do you happen to recall where & when ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 02:01:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06445 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:01:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6213Y007980; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6207m001499; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A61M7m001350 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-7.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.7]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALT36712; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:59:11 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <03ed01c27022$f71f0740$a4724ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <00c901c26f7c$96dd2b60$a67d4ed5@melaniew> <006501c26ff4$c6f762c0$35d4adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:04:58 +0100 Status: RO >As far as heavy goes.. hehehe, seems to be some problems with what is infered being different to what is being implied:) I realise myself that I use a bit of short hand and tend to assume people know what i'm referring too;) The main problem I find is we have different points of referance we all speak the same language , nominally, but our cultures biases and experiances are different. Sometime I forget that & it can be hard to pick up on everything that might be misunderstood Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 02:04:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07750 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:04:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6523Y008084; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6517m002293; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A64r7m002262 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a247.in-tch.com [66.62.107.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9A5nmL24115 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DA519F4.47A57C4F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. References: <000d01c26fb1$7fba5e50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <009c01c27013$ea9de0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DA506E0.212C3537@in-tch.com> <00ba01c2701b$9b8e0900$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:11:00 -0600 Status: RO Shoot...I just figured you were co-chairs for the club! --sue, taking a break from cooking chicken for an SCA feast... Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Now, Sue... I would claim to be Bjarne's #1 fan... but my asst. Susan took > that spot! I think she has also become Michaela's #1 fan too! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 02:07:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA09502 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:07:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6813Y008223; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6807m003047; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A67d7m002934 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:07:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a247.in-tch.com [66.62.107.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9A5qZL24935 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DA51AA7.41F05242@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown References: <00c901c26f7c$96dd2b60$a67d4ed5@melaniew> <006501c26ff4$c6f762c0$35d4adcb@michaela> <03ed01c27022$f71f0740$a4724ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:13:59 -0600 Status: RO Right on! Of course, then we complicate the #$@$!! out of it all by playing with costume and clothing from a variety of cultures over a span of a few measly millenia! and they all come with *their* sets of givens! Isn't life *interesting??* --sue Melanie Wilson wrote: > > The main problem I find is we have different points of referance we all > speak the same language , nominally, but our cultures biases and experiances > are different. Sometime I forget that & it can be hard to pick up on > everything that might be misunderstood > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 02:09:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10762 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:09:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6A13Y008299; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6A07m003474; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A69P7m003342 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:09:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-7.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.7]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALT36844; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:07:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <03f201c27024$19931b80$a4724ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <118.18dfe1fa.2ad60787@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown & bustles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:13:06 +0100 Status: RO >I meant actual period stuff. Then went on to give examples that are not "real" that one could look at in motion....on film. Thanks for clarifying that :) I've not seen those actual costumes for those films as far as I'm aware, but those costume I have seen for films are all too often of very incorrect fabrics, so the movement on films often cannot be trusted I feel. TheRational movements and similar argued for the undergarment weight to be reduced from 14lbs to 7lbs to allow freer movement, therefore I think it is reasonable to assume 14lb or thereabouts as'normal' underwear weight this is pretty heavy, which is why I feel a heavier fabric gives a better movement of the body inside , rather than the clothing movement. >I understand better what you mean now. So many costumes are made from upholstery stuff and are just plain clunky that "light" as far as I mean, is not meant to mean diaphanous. I think we are nearer in ref terms now ;) Interestingly many of my friends , recreating 1870s, have problems with their bustles between evening and day wear due to the differances in weight, I haven't had any problems & my gear varies from very heavy velvet to light taffeta, therefore I thought I'd mention that my bustle has a canvas base, with steel, and ruffles, others I've seen are based of little more than shirt weight fabric & rip apart very easily Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 02:17:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA15199 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:17:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6I23Y008574; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6I17m005318; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6Hh7m005218 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-7.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.7]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALT37029; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:15:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <041d01c27025$427a3000$a4724ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <1a7.9cc21df.2ad3d332@aol.com> <9$OxU5BdfKp9IwYA@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colored linen in the 14th century? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:21:24 +0100 Status: RO >I had a quick flick through and I couldn't find anything. I wonder if you would get any linen fibres attached to brooches etc? It would be the most likely place to find archaelogical textile remaims, either the fabric or pattern of fabric in the metal Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 02:36:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27000 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:36:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6b23Y009249; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6b17m009539; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6a87m009344 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021010063608.OYZV17202.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:36:08 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dyeing experiments Message-ID: <3DA52DE5.10183.702D144@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3DA4E616.16CA0D9@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:36:05 +0100 Status: RO On 9 Oct 2002 at 20:29, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Uh...well, indigenous as in "growing in my yard so I didn't have to > pay for it?" We also have to deal with other interlopers like > knapweed (great honey, decent green dye, horribly invasive weed). I > knew tansy was also medieval (from recipes). That was, in part, one > of the reasons we played with it. That, and it grows everywhere in my > neighborhood--it really seems to like water and there are a couple of > irrigation ditches/creeks (pronounced "cricks" ) in my area. It's > cool stuff. --sue Word of warning: I've heard that the plant many Americans call "tansy", which is comnmon over there, bears little or no relation to the European Tansy. Both have yellow flowers, and that's about it. I may be wrong, but I'd suggest checking before you draw too many conclusions from your dyeing experiments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 02:44:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA32038 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:44:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6j23Y009511; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6j17m011383; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6iR7m011243 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:44:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip141.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.141]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g9A6iKm26527 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:44:20 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dyeing experiments Message-ID: <3DA4BFD1.28460.1BD2AF4E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3DA52DE5.10183.702D144@localhost> References: <3DA4E616.16CA0D9@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:46:25 -0700 Status: RO > On 9 Oct 2002 at 20:29, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Uh...well, indigenous as in "growing in my yard so I didn't have to > > pay for it?" We also have to deal with other interlopers like > > knapweed (great honey, decent green dye, horribly invasive weed). I > > knew tansy was also medieval (from recipes). That was, in part, one > > of the reasons we played with it. That, and it grows everywhere in > > my neighborhood--it really seems to like water and there are a > > couple of irrigation ditches/creeks (pronounced "cricks" ) in my > > area. It's cool stuff. --sue > > Word of warning: I've heard that the plant many > Americans call "tansy", which is comnmon over > there, bears little or no relation to the European > Tansy. Both have yellow flowers, and that's about it. > I may be wrong, but I'd suggest checking before you > draw too many conclusions from your dyeing > experiments. Quite right. There are two main types of tansy. The European tansy is the dye tansy. It is not a weed in the sense that it is restricted. However, the most common kind of tansy in the US is not a true tansy but is tansy ragwort. It is toxic to cattle and is considered a noxious weed in most states. (And I wouldn't be the least surprised if it likes creekbeds.) Most good garden books have both of them in them, so find a good one and check to see which kind *you* have. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 02:49:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00809 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:49:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6o23Y009668; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6o17m012520; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6nN7m012386 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:49:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A3B2342500A4; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:52:34 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A3EC4600238; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:53:32 -0500 Message-ID: <001c01c27029$3e3ab4c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <00c501c26f7c$87363620$a67d4ed5@melaniew> <002e01c26fae$de25b140$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <03e601c27022$8d58c800$a4724ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:49:52 -0400 Status: RO Mel, I am sorry that I don't. I lost most of my resource information on where I found the sources when my computer crashed a couple of years ago. I do remember it clearly though, because pink and maroon color combination was my favorite. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown > >I can't recall my source... I always like pink and maroon together. Then I > found out that the two colors were not used together. They were considered > bad taste. > > Do you happen to recall where & when ? > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 02:53:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00836 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:53:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6s13Y009835; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6s07m013447; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A6r97m013276 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:53:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A494EA1900C0; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:56:20 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A4CF6F0026C; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:57:19 -0500 Message-ID: <002301c27029$c51bd1e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000d01c26fb1$7fba5e50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <009c01c27013$ea9de0e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DA506E0.212C3537@in-tch.com> <00ba01c2701b$9b8e0900$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DA519F4.47A57C4F@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:53:41 -0400 Status: RO Sue (chicken lady), I am everyone's #2 fan , I love everyone equally. But I am the keeper of all hand fans... and I don't share! A girl has to be greedy sometimes! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 03:00:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01316 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 03:00:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A7123Y010103; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A7117m015056; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A70k7m014980 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-117-7.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.117.7]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALT38949; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:58:39 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <04bd01c2702b$45a8f300$a4724ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <00c501c26f7c$87363620$a67d4ed5@melaniew> <002e01c26fae$de25b140$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <03e601c27022$8d58c800$a4724ed5@pavilion> <001c01c27029$3e3ab4c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1870's colours & fabrics - evening gown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:02:21 +0100 Status: RO >I am sorry that I don't. I lost most of my resource information on where I found the sources when my computer crashed a couple of years ago. Never mind thanks anyway >I do remember it clearly though, because pink and maroon color combination was my favorite. What a pain for you then :) I wonder why it was considered distastlful, ah well... Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 03:01:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01779 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 03:01:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A7203Y010137; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A7207m015276; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A71S7m015141 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:01:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a247.in-tch.com [66.62.107.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9A6kNL07849 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DA52742.3E2C908E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dyeing experiments References: <3DA52DE5.10183.702D144@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:07:46 -0600 Status: RO It's the real, ordinary, garden-variety common tansy. Double-checked against various herb and natural dye books. Known as Tanacetum vulgare, aka "golden buttons." Related to herbs costmary and alecost (T. balsamia), pyrethrum (T. cinerariifolium), and feverfew (T. parthenium). According to one book, it's "a native of Britain...[and] was known to the Anglo-Saxons,...During the Middle Ages the plant was a popular disinfecting herb for strewing [it has a remarkably sharp, but not unpleasant, scent], and an insect-repellant....The flowers yield a yellow-orange dye, and were added to pot-pourri." --Sue Jane Williams wrote: > > > Word of warning: I've heard that the plant many > Americans call "tansy", which is comnmon over > there, bears little or no relation to the European > Tansy. Both have yellow flowers, and that's about it. > I may be wrong, but I'd suggest checking before you > draw too many conclusions from your dyeing > experiments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 03:07:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05079 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 03:07:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A7813Y010292; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A7807m016540; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A77a7m016457 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:07:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a247.in-tch.com [66.62.107.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9A6qOL09312 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:52:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DA52866.4E52C11F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dyeing experiments References: <3DA4E616.16CA0D9@in-tch.com> <3DA4BFD1.28460.1BD2AF4E@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:12:38 -0600 Status: RO >From the pictures and descriptions in my herb books, I'd say it's pretty clear that what we've got (that I've been referring to, at any rate) is actual tansy. Can't find any reference to the tansy ragwort (although it's really late at night, and I could be just missing it). I've got a great local source for weed information, though. One of the members of my local SCA group is the head "weed guy" for one of the counties that comprise our barony. I'll ask him. Our tansy does, by the way, make a beautiful yellow if you use the ripe flower heads. --Sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > On 9 Oct 2002 at 20:29, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > > > Uh...well, indigenous as in "growing in my yard so I didn't have to > > > pay for it?" We also have to deal with other interlopers like > > > knapweed (great honey, decent green dye, horribly invasive weed). I > > > knew tansy was also medieval (from recipes). That was, in part, one > > > of the reasons we played with it. That, and it grows everywhere in > > > my neighborhood--it really seems to like water and there are a > > > couple of irrigation ditches/creeks (pronounced "cricks" ) in my > > > area. It's cool stuff. --sue > > > > Word of warning: I've heard that the plant many > > Americans call "tansy", which is comnmon over > > there, bears little or no relation to the European > > Tansy. Both have yellow flowers, and that's about it. > > I may be wrong, but I'd suggest checking before you > > draw too many conclusions from your dyeing > > experiments. > > Quite right. There are two main types of tansy. The European tansy is > the dye tansy. It is not a weed in the sense that it is restricted. > However, the most common kind of tansy in the US is not a true tansy > but is tansy ragwort. It is toxic to cattle and is considered a > noxious weed in most states. (And I wouldn't be the least surprised > if it likes creekbeds.) > > Most good garden books have both of them in them, so find a good one > and check to see which kind *you* have. > > Kat Russell > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 03:41:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11831 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 03:41:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A7g23Y011297; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A7g07m023686; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f16.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9A7fS7m023502 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:41:22 -0700 Received: from 169.233.3.149 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:41:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [169.233.3.149] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2002 07:41:22.0915 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E2F9B30:01C27030] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:41:22 -0700 Status: RO Laura-the-Geek here again. The URL is actually: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dressdiary.html Very pretty! -Laura _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 09:29:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24537 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:29:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ADRB3Y021489; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ADR17m007921; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ADQ27m007574 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew ([213.78.114.239]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALX58268; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:24:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <006101c27061$76e12380$fe724ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST COSTUME UK" , , , "LIST H Costume" , "List 19th C Woman" <19cWoman@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0273_01C27069.9D740AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Subject: [h-cost] Horsehair fabric for petticoats etc Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:30:43 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0273_01C27069.9D740AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Croft Mills Croft Mill E-mail Address(es): info@croftmill.co.uk Has horsehair fabric for sale it is fairly lightweight, but should come = in usefull for Victorian costumes ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. Tel: +44 116 260 4442=20 Fax: +44 116 260 1396=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0273_01C27069.9D740AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Croft Mills Croft Mill
E-mail=20 Address(es):
  info@croftmill.co.uk
<= /DIV>
Has horsehair fabric for sale it is fairly lightweight, but should = come in=20 usefull for Victorian costumes !
 
Mel
This e-mail, and any attachment, is=20 confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from = your=20 system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify = me=20 immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views = which=20 are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.
Tel: = +44 116=20 260 4442
Fax:  +44 116 260 1396
------=_NextPart_000_0273_01C27069.9D740AA0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 11:33:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25629 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AFX43Y000670; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AFX1Ni029851; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9AFWfNi029638 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWi/N9nB9RDwrUTCrz429St85YgQ2P6KzTA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HER5Z9WQ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:32:29 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. Message-ID: <20021010.104818.-161379.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:12:40 -0400 Status: RO You have every right to be pleased, with both the embroidery and the photos. I wish I had a tenth of your talent. What an honor it is to know you, even from a long distance. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 11:43:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25740 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:43:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AFh43Y001584; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:43:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AFh1Ni005286; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AFgONi004899 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:42:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3R00MCOU8JA2@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:12:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: Historic Costume Message-id: <3DA59882.9020209@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Information on Castle Furnishings? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:10:58 -0500 Status: RO Does anyone know how long it should take to get books from Castle Furnishings? I placed an order Sept. 19th and have not received the order. Nor have I receieved a reply to my inquiry regarding my order? Thanks -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 12:00:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25873 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:00:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AG123Y003060; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AG11Ni015023; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AG05Ni014498 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bec3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.195]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C4C65263D40 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:00:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c27076$5e20e0a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021010.104818.-161379.0.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:02:00 +0200 Status: RO Dear Lalah, and all others who enjoyed my embroidery. Thanks a lot for your warm friendly phraise. Sometimes you just do it, and dont worry how on earth it will get along. I dont get rich of this projekt, but if i didnt say yes to it, i would never had made it. It is when i do my best, i feel most alive, and also the most happy person on earth. Thanks again Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lalah T Tillinghast" To: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. > You have every right to be pleased, with both the embroidery and > the photos. I wish I had a tenth of your talent. What an honor it is to > know you, even from a long distance. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 12:57:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26325 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:57:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AGv63Y008182; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AGv0Ni015902; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AGudNi015609 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:56:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.18b.fac7990 (4206) for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:56:20 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <18b.fac7990.2ad70b34@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_18b.fac7990.2ad70b34_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] Costume Lectures in DC Area Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:56:20 EDT Status: RO --part1_18b.fac7990.2ad70b34_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Riversdale House Museum presents two costume lectures this fall: Oct. 23 Costumes of Senator Hattie Caraway's era: 1900-1050 (in conjunction with the exhibit, "A Woman's Place is in the Senate," commemorating the first woman to be elected to the U.S. Senate) presented by costume historian Ann Wass Dec. 5 Looking for the Perfect Bra presented by Colleen Gau, co-author of "Uplift: The Bra in America" (She will also be signing her book.) Lectures are at 7:00 p.m. Cost is $5.00 each. Riversdale is located at 4811 Riverdale Rd. in Riverdale Park, Maryland. For more information call 301-864-0420. --part1_18b.fac7990.2ad70b34_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Riversdale House Museum presents two costume lectures this fall:
Oct. 23  Costumes of Senator Hattie Caraway's era: 1900-1050 (in conjunction with the exhibit, "A Woman's Place is in the Senate," commemorating the first woman to be elected to the U.S. Senate) presented by costume historian Ann Wass

Dec. 5  Looking for the Perfect Bra  presented by Colleen Gau, co-author of "Uplift: The Bra in America"  (She will also be signing her book.)

Lectures are at 7:00 p.m.  Cost is $5.00 each.
Riversdale is located at 4811 Riverdale Rd. in Riverdale Park, Maryland.

For more information call 301-864-0420. --part1_18b.fac7990.2ad70b34_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 13:35:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26731 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:35:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AHZJ3Y011399; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:35:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AHZGNi006796; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9AHYINi006291 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26341 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2002 17:34:17 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-130.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.166.66.130) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2002 17:34:17 -0000 Message-ID: <00eb01c27082$2a9a2640$8242a6d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] coloured linen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:26:26 -0400 Status: RO While they are from a totally opposite part of the world, some of the documents in the Cairo Geniza refer to linen being used for outerwear and in colors. Interestingly, the word "linen" rarely appears in the documents - the most common reference is to "Dabiqi" (a name derived from a town where this type of linen was produced). Climate probably has a lot to do with this - linen is common, silk even more so but wool is not often mentioned or apparently (given the prices) much valued. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 13:37:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26771 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:37:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AHc23Y011711; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AHc1Ni008274; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AHbWNi008036 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:37:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17zhFa-0004f6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:37:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3DA5BA40.E41E29E6@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Information on Castle Furnishings? References: <3DA59882.9020209@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:34:56 -0500 Status: RO "Linda J. Thompson" wrote: > > Does anyone know how long it should take to get books from Castle Furnishings? > I placed an order Sept. 19th and have not received the order. Nor have I receieved a > reply to my inquiry regarding my order? I have no experience with this company, but having been on both the shipping and the receiving end of things I can think of several issues that will affect shipping time: whether the items are in stock, where they're shipped from, where they're shipped to, how they're shipped, etc. I just checked their web page and they state they ship book rate. Basically that means the post office ships the package on a space available basis and it can take 4-6 weeks to arrive. Personally, I always pay extra (usually only a dollar or two) for priority or UPS shipping; I've had too many book rate shipments never arrive and I don't trust it (others have had good experiences, YMMV). What did Castle Furnishings say when you contacted them about it? --Charlene -- If a painting can be forged well enough to fool experts, why is the original so valuable? -- George Carlin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 14:46:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28239 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:46:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AIh93Y016773; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AIh1Ni012838; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AIgRNi012498 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrwbc58 ([204.127.198.47]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021010184222.EBHM18514.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:42:22 +0000 Received: from [199.79.10.118] by rwcrwbc58; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:42:20 +0000 From: jtaper1@attbi.com To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 12 2002) Message-Id: <20021010184222.EBHM18514.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> Subject: [h-cost] Re: Information on Castle Furnishings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:42:20 +0000 Status: RO <> I've purchased books from Leah Janette/Janet Davis of Castle Furnishings many, many times. If there is a delay in receiving my order it has usually been because she's been away merchanting at an event or two or three. AFAIK, the company is comprised of herself and one other person only. I would suggest sending her another email, as they do occasionally get lost in the ether so to speak. If all else fails, please contact me off list and I'll contact her by telephone to get you two in touch. HTH, Karaznina Semenova vdova Iul'iana, BMDL, AEthelmearc Juliana Taper, Pittsburgh, PA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 14:54:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28401 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:54:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AIs63Y017722; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:54:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AIs1Ni018816; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AIrfNi018591 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:53:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3S00GLO4HCG0@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:53:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DA5CC62.5090905@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Castle Replied today Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:52:18 -0500 Status: RO My order was set aside to see if something was still in stock (unfortunately it's no longer available) thanks for the information though on book rate... I had no idea it could sit around in the Post Office that long. I offer regular and priority mailing for my store so had no experience with book rate (I don't sell books) ;D -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 15:41:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29407 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:41:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AJeF3Y021830; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:40:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AJeBF7012925; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AJdaF7012535 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021010193931.DMN16428.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:39:31 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: Message-ID: <000301c27054$e079fd10$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9AJdaF7012535 Subject: [h-cost] new book on Greenland textiles!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:02:11 -0400 Status: RO This was posted by Nancy Spies on the Arts-list: -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of SNSpies@aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: [sca-arts] new book on Greenland textiles!! I have just heard from Else Oestergaard that she has a new book coming out soon on the Norse textiles from Greenland.  Titled "Woven Into the Past: Textile Finds from Norse Greenland", the Danish version will be out sometime after Christmas with the English version appearing later. To further whet your appetite, Karen Finch just told me that Else has made "a particular study of the seams, including why they are different in different places.  Pre-sewing machine seams each serves a different purpose."  I will let you know more information as I receive it.  (Nancy Spies) www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html --- **************** Wow! Can't wait to get this one! Linda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 16:50:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30892 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:50:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AKp83Y028066; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AKp2F7021458; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AKoZF7021103 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:50:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234948pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.182.133]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3S0047P9W43Y@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:50:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3DA5E81B.5080808@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 References: <20021010165700.15895.3270.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: dress diary Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:50:35 -0400 Status: RO Bjarne... I was already in awe of your general costuming and lace skills... *now* I have to envy your embroidery skills as well! Sigh... I only wish that my non-counted satin stitch would look that nice (bane of my embroidery existance that stitch is...( -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 17:54:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31266 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:54:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ALt33Y003721; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ALt1fF025382; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ALskfF025265 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:54:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fdd.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.221]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BA0295EF5E5 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 23:54:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001901c270a7$f7274330$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021010165700.15895.3270.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3DA5E81B.5080808@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: dress diary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 23:57:02 +0200 Status: RO Dear Elisabeth. Chee! many many thanks for your lovely words, all i will say is, that you can if you practice, it is all a matter of patience and time, and also the will to do it counts a lot. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz / Cozit" To: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: dress diary > Bjarne... I was already in awe of your general costuming and lace > skills... *now* I have to envy your embroidery skills as well! > > Sigh... I only wish that my non-counted satin stitch would look that > nice (bane of my embroidery existance that stitch is...( > > > -Elisabeth > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 19:32:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31708 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:32:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ANX23Y010962; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ANX1fF009089; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9ANWefF008954 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 12257 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2002 23:32:39 -0000 Received: from dap-208-1-140-242.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.1.140.242) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2002 23:32:39 -0000 Message-ID: <002801c270b4$3a031560$f28c01d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: <3DA59882.9020209@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Information on Castle Furnishings? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:24:46 -0400 Status: RO > Does anyone know how long it should take to get books from Castle Furnishings? Well....it really shouldn't take very long (unless something is out of stock) but sometimes I * am incredibly busy and only get to what is demanding immediate attention * am away for a long event or several in a row *get in a dreary mood where things just don't get done * have other explanations of various problems I never charge a credit card until something is ready to ship. Feel free to nag me and definately let me know if there is a need for something at a particular time. As far as shipping things book rate, over the last couple years my experience has been excellent. I have even shipped things on Friday (from Erie, PA) and had them delivered on Saturday in Pittsburgh before I even got the e-mail sent to let the customer know it was coming. I sometimes buy out-of-print books if I find a good deal on e-bay or such and getting things book rate from other places has always worked out well. (Although I will occasionally blame the Post Office if something is late, actually I think they do a great job and are underappreciated.) Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 10 22:34:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32752 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:34:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9B2Y63Y019830; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9B2Y1fF001928; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9B2XMfF001762 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:33:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26533 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2002 02:33:23 -0000 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (209.15.2.27) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2002 02:33:23 -0000 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.42.67]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:33:20 -0500 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C270AD.020CC680" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Missed Post:Costume Lectures in DC Area Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:32:52 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C270AD.020CC680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can someone repost this? I am on digest and this item was supposed to be part of digest #1364, but this was not included. Thanks in advance, Allison ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C270AD.020CC680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Missed Post:Costume Lectures in DC Area

Can someone repost this? I am on digest and this item = was supposed to be part of digest #1364, but this was not = included.

Thanks in advance,

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C270AD.020CC680-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 11 06:27:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18948 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:27:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9BAS93Y005870; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 04:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9BAS1fF010040; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 04:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AFacNi001946 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 7.ca.12d0d205 (4262); Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:36:30 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com, h-needlework@ansteorra.org, atlantia@atlantia.sca.org, Norsefolk@yahoogroups.com, sca-arts@listsvr.pca.net, sca-garb@list.uvm.edu, SCA-Laurels@ansteorra.org, SCAWeaving@yahoogroups.com, ekaterina@adelphia.net, barysears@msn.com, gonnella@stsci.edu, Noramunro@aol.com, charles_jones@cap-police.senate.gov, Weaver8002@aol.com, loisrey@erols.com, JulianaCardoso1@aol.com, telsing@hotmail.com, ladyro@annapolis.net, lollyr@erols.com, tressena2000@yahoo.com, SuTillery@comcast.net, rico_ratso@yahoo.com, mbrunzie@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ca.12d0d205.2ad6f87d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Subject: [h-cost] new book on Greenland textiles!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:36:29 EDT Status: RO --part1_ca.12d0d205.2ad6f87d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just heard from Else Oestergaard that she has a new book coming out soon on the Norse textiles from Greenland. Titled "Woven Into the Past: Textile Finds from Norse Greenland", the Danish version will be out sometime after Christmas with the English version appearing later. To further whet your appetite, Karen Finch just told me that Else has made "a particular study of the seams, including why they are different in different places. Pre-sewing machine seams each serves a different purpose." I will let you know more information as I receive it. Ingvild Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL (Nancy Spies) Barony of Bright Hills Kingdom of Atlantia www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html --part1_ca.12d0d205.2ad6f87d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just heard from Else Oestergaard that she has a new book coming out soon on the Norse textiles from Greenland.  Titled "Woven Into the Past: Textile Finds from Norse Greenland", the Danish version will be out sometime after Christmas with the English version appearing later.

To further whet your appetite, Karen Finch just told me that Else has made "a particular study of the seams, including why they are different in different places.  Pre-sewing machine seams each serves a different purpose." 

I will let you know more information as I receive it. 

Ingvild

Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL
(Nancy Spies)
Barony of Bright Hills
Kingdom of Atlantia
www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html --part1_ca.12d0d205.2ad6f87d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 11 06:28:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18953 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:28:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9BAT23Y005908; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 04:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9BAT0fF010267; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 04:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailgate.purespeed.com (ns2.tidalwave.net [66.77.68.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9AGPLNi027956 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.purespeed.com (unknown [66.77.68.10]) by mailgate.purespeed.com (Postfix Relay Hub) with ESMTP id 932E613D81; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from leviathan [68.49.35.177] by mail.purespeed.com (SMTPD32-7.12) id A9DE811D0104; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:25:02 -0400 Message-ID: <006b01c27078$683845e0$0400a8c0@gambrl01.md.comcast.net> From: "Ro" To: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0064_01C27056.DE999260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re: new book on Greenland textiles!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:16:32 -0400 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01C27056.DE999260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ohghod, something ELSE to spend my (non-existent) money on.... Ingvild, you, you, you ENABLER you!!! Ro,=20 house, dog & kitten poor.... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: SNSpies@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com ; h-needlework@ansteorra.org ; = atlantia@atlantia.sca.org ; Norsefolk@yahoogroups.com ; = sca-arts@listsvr.pca.net ; sca-garb@list.uvm.edu ; = SCA-Laurels@ansteorra.org ; SCAWeaving@yahoogroups.com ; = ekaterina@adelphia.net ; barysears@msn.com ; gonnella@stsci.edu ; = Noramunro@aol.com ; charles_jones@cap-police.senate.gov ; = Weaver8002@aol.com ; loisrey@erols.com ; JulianaCardoso1@aol.com ; = telsing@hotmail.com ; ladyro@annapolis.net ; lollyr@erols.com ; = tressena2000@yahoo.com ; SuTillery@comcast.net ; rico_ratso@yahoo.com ; = mbrunzie@yahoo.com=20 Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: new book on Greenland textiles!! I have just heard from Else Oestergaard that she has a new book coming = out soon on the Norse textiles from Greenland. Titled "Woven Into the = Past: Textile Finds from Norse Greenland", the Danish version will be = out sometime after Christmas with the English version appearing later.=20 To further whet your appetite, Karen Finch just told me that Else has = made "a particular study of the seams, including why they are different = in different places. Pre-sewing machine seams each serves a different = purpose." =20 I will let you know more information as I receive it. =20 Ingvild Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL (Nancy Spies) Barony of Bright Hills Kingdom of Atlantia www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01C27056.DE999260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ohghod, something ELSE to spend my (non-existent) = money=20 on....
 
Ingvild, you, you, you ENABLER you!!!
 
Ro,
house, dog & kitten poor....
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 SNSpies@aol.com=20
To: h-costume@mail.indra.com = ; h-needlework@ansteorra.org= ; atlantia@atlantia.sca.org = ; Norsefolk@yahoogroups.com = ; sca-arts@listsvr.pca.net = ; sca-garb@list.uvm.edu ; SCA-Laurels@ansteorra.org = ; SCAWeaving@yahoogroups.com= ; ekaterina@adelphia.net ; barysears@msn.com=20 ; gonnella@stsci.edu ; Noramunro@aol.com=20 ; charles_jones@cap-pol= ice.senate.gov=20 ; Weaver8002@aol.com ; loisrey@erols.com=20 ; JulianaCardoso1@aol.com ; = telsing@hotmail.com ; ladyro@annapolis.net ; lollyr@erols.com ;=20 tressena2000@yahoo.com ; SuTillery@comcast.net ; rico_ratso@yahoo.com ; mbrunzie@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 10, = 2002 11:36=20 AM
Subject: new book on Greenland=20 textiles!!

I have just heard from Else Oestergaard that she = has a new=20 book coming out soon on the Norse textiles from Greenland.  = Titled "Woven=20 Into the Past: Textile Finds from Norse Greenland", the Danish version = will be=20 out sometime after Christmas with the English version appearing later. =

To further whet your appetite, Karen Finch just told me that = Else has=20 made "a particular study of the seams, including why they are = different in=20 different places.  Pre-sewing machine seams each serves a = different=20 purpose." 

I will let you know more information as I = receive=20 it. 

Ingvild

Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL
(Nancy=20 Spies)
Barony of Bright Hills
Kingdom of Atlantia
www.weavershand.co= m/ArelateStudio.html=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01C27056.DE999260-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 11 08:49:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19374 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:49:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9BCo23Y010466; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9BCo1fF008862; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9BCnlfF008793 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1ab.a11e705 (4394) for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:49:36 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1ab.a11e705.2ad822e0@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Missed Post:Costume Lectures in DC Area To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1ab.a11e705.2ad822e0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:49:36 EDT Status: RO --part1_1ab.a11e705.2ad822e0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/10/2002 10:35:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, athurman@cybergal.com writes: > Can someone repost this? I am on digest and this item was supposed to be > part of digest #1364, but this was not included. > > The Riversdale House Museum presents two costume lectures this fall: Oct. 23 Costumes of Senator Hattie Caraway's era: 1900-1050 (in conjunction with the exhibit, "A Woman's Place is in the Senate," commemorating the first woman to be elected to the U.S. Senate) presented by costume historian Ann Wass Dec. 5 Looking for the Perfect Bra presented by Colleen Gau, co-author of "Uplift: The Bra in America" (She will also be signing her book.) Lectures are at 7:00 p.m. Cost is $5.00 each. Riversdale is located at 4811 Riverdale Rd. in Riverdale Park, Maryland. For more information call 301-864-0420. Ann Wass --part1_1ab.a11e705.2ad822e0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/10/2002 10:35:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, athurman@cybergal.com writes:


Can someone repost this? I am on digest and this item was supposed to be part of digest #1364, but this was not included.



The Riversdale House Museum presents two costume lectures this fall:
Oct. 23  Costumes of Senator Hattie Caraway's era: 1900-1050 (in conjunction with the exhibit, "A Woman's Place is in the Senate," commemorating the first woman to be elected to the U.S. Senate) presented by costume historian Ann Wass

Dec. 5  Looking for the Perfect Bra  presented by Colleen Gau, co-author of "Uplift: The Bra in America"  (She will also be signing her book.)

Lectures are at 7:00 p.m.  Cost is $5.00 each.
Riversdale is located at 4811 Riverdale Rd. in Riverdale Park, Maryland.

For more information call 301-864-0420.

Ann Wass --part1_1ab.a11e705.2ad822e0_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 11 14:53:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20978 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:53:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9BIr93Y006232; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:53:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9BIr1BT009852; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12003.mail.yahoo.com (web12003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9BIqNBT009539 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:52:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021011185223.79767.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.248] by web12003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:52:23 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] post office/wide-laced gowns/movie Elizabethan dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Thanks for the kind words about the post office. We postal gremlins (we're too grumpy on the graveyard shift to be elves) like to move out mail as rapidly as possible as it's our mail too and I always want my stuff yesterday if not sooner. Book rate goes by truck from place to place, which is why it's cheaper while almost everything else goes by plane. We don't usually mind getting blamed for delays as it does sometimes happen but for the most part the system works pretty well. The volume we work is staggering, rather like Bjarne's embroidery. I personally process for delivery 164,000 pieces of mail on a light night and I'm only one of 8 machines doing business size letters. We have 3 more machines doing magazine size mail and another 1 doing packages. Our little facility processes around 1 million pieces of mail a night and that's just the easy stuff that can go through a machine. I don't have good stats on the pieces that are done by hand or on the other 2 shifts. We do have a dress code for safety too which is sometimes really strange. We don't have uniforms unless you work with the public and those are pretty odd too from a clothing point of view but we did recently discuss school uniforms so I won't go into detail unless someone asks. Next topic, re the recent discussion of wide-laced gowns on women check out Bronwyn Cosgrove's the Complete History of Costume and Fashion pg 101, lower right-hand corner. There's a lady in a pink gown with short sleeves worn over a light blue undergown with bishop sleeves. The overdress bodice goes over the shoulders down to the waist in a wide, truncated V which laces across. You can see the side of the bodice well enough to see the lacing cords' pattern. I cannot refernce the painting as all the caption says is Bruges c.1500. The undergown has a low neck and you can see the white of the shift(?) as it goes up to the neck in a jewel neckline. It's a really good source if you wanted to reproduce the gown as the only thing I can't see is the back. Hopes this adds something to the recent discussion. Just finished watching Elizabeth with Kate Winslet and wondered if there is any period evidence for the gown worn dancing with the black doublet and blackwork sleeves and underskirt? Also the brocade overdress when she goes out riding after Dudley? The overdress is brocade with a shawl collar and closes at the front waist, collar turned back above and gown open in front. Cassandra (arguing with my daughter's lace overdress again) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 08:16:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07961 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:16:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CCG73Y019613; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 06:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CCG1Za020333; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 06:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inje.iskon.hr (inje.iskon.hr [213.191.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CCFSZa020227 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 06:15:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jkale.public.srce.hr (st01-219.dialin.iskon.hr [213.202.66.220]) by mail.iskon.hr (8.11.4/8.11.4/Iskon 8.11.3-1) with ESMTP id g9CCEn823168 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:14:51 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20021012142357.00ab1ec0@jagor.srce.hr> X-Sender: jkale@jagor.srce.hr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jadran Kale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9CCFSZa020227 Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Archaeological Footwear Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:24:58 +0200 Status: RO >From: "Rainer Atzbach M.A." >Subject: Rezension Stepping Through Time >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:47:03 +0200 >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Olaf Goubitz /Carol van Driel-Murray/Willy Groenman-van Waateringe: Stepping >through Time. Archaeological Footwear from Prehistoric Times until 1800. >Edited by the Stichting Promotie Archeologie, Zwolle 2001. 397 S., ca. 820 >s/w Abb. ISBN 90-801044-6-9. Preis: NL 55 EUR, B+D 60 EUR, GB (Oxbow) 35 £, >übriges Europa 70 EUR, USA (Oxbow/ David Brown) 63 $. >Infobroschüre als kostenloser Download: >http://www.archeologie-spa.nl/pdf/pdf001.zip > >Summary: > >This book unites studies of the retired restorer Olaf Goubitz, the >archaeologist Carol van-Driel Murray and the biologist Willy Groenman-van >Waateringe, who belong to the most important researchers in European >footwear. Olaf Goubitz' part deals with the medieval and postmedieval shoes >in the Netherlands, which could be seen being paradigmatical for the whole >of Europe. Though in some passages his text is lacking structure, it >provides a plenty of information to the calceological history and the way of >recording shoes. Moreover his detailed and clear drawings are worth to be >seen - in archaeology nothing lasts longer than a well drawn reconstruction. >Carol Driel-Murray gives a short overview to the Roman shoes worn in the >former North-West provinces Gallia Belgica and Germania Inferior considering >typology and craftmanship as well. Willy Groenman-van Waateringe completes >the trilogy with a very small essay on Dutch and European prehistoric finds >also regarding their importance as archaeological source material. Although >this compendium is not the expected well structured handbook on European >footwear, everyone who is occupied with historical shoes and shoemaker's >craft should study this book. Rezensiert für H-Museum und Virtual Library Museen von Rainer Atzbach M.A., Lehrstuhl für Archäologie des Mittelalters und der Neuzeit, Universität Bamberg E-mail: rainer.atzbach@ggeo.uni-bamberg.de WWW: www.uni-bamberg.de/~ba5am1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 09:05:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08152 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:05:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CD613Y020859; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 07:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CD60Za028823; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 07:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CD5DZa028698 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 07:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip183.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.183]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9CD5Anp026521 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021012080445.035d1c60@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up In-Reply-To: <3DA39F3C.D5B60352@faucet.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:06:04 -0400 Status: RO In fact, doesn't the corset in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ (I forget the name of the wearer) have eyelets for just this purpose -- i.e., keeping up the farthingale? So it's a period solution. Cheers, Mara At 10:15 PM 10/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I can't tell from your description if you are wearing a corset or not. >If so, I hope it has straps. If you are and it does, you can use the >"points" method described by Rebecca to tie your farthingale to your >corset. Except for your bloomers (yer on yer own there!) everything >else rests on top, and nothing falls down. This method has saved me all >sorts of back pain, for while I do have hips, they don't appreciate >taking the full weight of all that garb. To see a picture and >description of what I did, go to >http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/under.html > >If you're not wearing a corset, you might consider one (with straps!) >for your next effort. I know it seems like too many layers, but IMHO it >certainly beats making _every_ bodice into a corset instead. > >Margo's suggestion of sewing the waistband of the skirt into the bodice >is a very good one--unless the bodice opens in the front and the skirt >in the back, which has sometimes been my quandary in the past with this >method. > >Best of luck, >Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 10:28:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08559 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:28:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CET23Y023375; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CET1Za013843; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CES3Za013666 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-003scfairp0190.dialsprint.net ([63.184.208.190] helo=faucet.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 180NFL-00046P-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 07:28:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3DA83F3E.4EE7B955@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021012080445.035d1c60@saltmine.radix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:26:53 -0500 Status: RO Kevin + Mara wrote: > > In fact, doesn't the corset in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ (I forget the > name of the wearer) have eyelets for just this purpose -- i.e., keeping up > the farthingale? So it's a period solution. Exactly where I got the idea! (Amazing how when you do it the way they did it, it works...) ;) Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 16:23:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10007 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:23:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CKO43Y007466; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CKO1Za029734; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CKNrZa029664 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.142.64.3]) by mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20021012202347.JOEF20527.mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 20:23:47 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012130728.00a409a0@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <20021012180007.27679.39280.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] 1861evening gown - help w/color of accessories Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 13:19:56 -0700 Status: RO My next project (among many) is the 1861-4 evening gown from Patterns of Fashion 2, on page 22. I've always loved that very elegant sweep of lace from the center front, and I actually have a very old black lace stole that will be perfect for that. It's not as ornate as the Chantilly lace in the original, but I think I'm going to fancy it up with some lace appliques. I found this wonderful forest green striped cotton/satin at (of all places) JoAnns that will be perfect. It's not too heavy, so it won't drag down, but it's heavy enough to drape nicely with lots of body. No problem doing the lace trim in black, but what about the undersleeves? The original fabric was black and pink striped, and the udnersleeves were pink silk, but I'm working with all forest green and black lace. I was thinking a sheer ivory for the sleeves but I'm not sure. I don't think a sheer black would look good at all, but there's no other color in the dress to pull from. I think green undersleeves would look pretty awful. Any suggestions other than ivory for the undersleeves? Also, what color gloves would should be worn? Most of the period references show wrist length gloves for evening wear, even with elbow-length sleeves, such as these, but I'm not sure what color they should be. Black seems logical to tie in with the color of the gown, but that's seems too reminiscent of mourning. But if everything on the dress is black or green (not counting hte as yet to be decided undersleeves), wouldn't white gloves look odd? I'm now going to start the hunt for the right Chantilly lace for the trim. Hopefully it can be found somewhere in downtown Los Angeles. Thanks, Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 17:14:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10253 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:14:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CLD23Y009747; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CLD1Za010204; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CLCuZa010187 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:12:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.81] (as3-4-95.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.81]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g9CLCtu18283 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021012080445.035d1c60@saltmine.radix.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021012080445.035d1c60@saltmine.radix.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:03:30 -0700 Status: RO At 8:06 AM -0400 10/12/02, Kevin + Mara wrote: >In fact, doesn't the corset in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ (I >forget the name of the wearer) have eyelets for just this purpose -- >i.e., keeping up the farthingale? So it's a period solution. And I could swear that I've seen 16th c. German pictures of dress-makers' shops with something hanging on display that looked like a farthingale attached to _some_ sort of top -- I'd have to dig them up to see if there was clear detail, but my recollection is that the top was vaguely a sleeveless, low-neckline shape, so the relationship, if any, to a corset (over? under? equals?) is unclear in my memory. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 18:13:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10501 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:13:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CME13Y012157; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CME0Za021559; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CMDIZa021400 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01925 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:17:56 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:17:56 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > And I could swear that I've seen 16th c. German pictures of > dress-makers' shops with something hanging on display that looked like > a farthingale attached to _some_ sort of top -- I'd have to dig them > up to see if there was clear detail, but my recollection is that the > top was vaguely a sleeveless, low-neckline shape, so the relationship, > if any, to a corset (over? under? equals?) is unclear in my memory. There's a print in Jost Amman's Book of Trades that shows a chemise or possibly an underdress hanging in the back of a tailor's shop. The chemise has fine pleats in the skirt that are apparently being "set" in place by a series of several narrow horizontal pressboards clamped over the garment at intervals. A weight hangs from the bottom of the whole business. Joseph Strutt misinterpreted the pressboards as being hoops, and redrew the image as though these horizontal lines were boning placed on the outside of the garment's skirt. I wouldn't be surprised if later books picked up his interpretation -- so many later books redrew from Strutt. Perhaps that's the image you're remembering? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 19:00:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10827 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:00:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CN1E3Y014777; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CN1AZa000951; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CN0gZa000797 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f5c.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.92]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AB13C5EE416 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:00:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000c01c27243$a981b320$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012130728.00a409a0@postoffice.att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1861evening gown - help w/color of accessories MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:04:04 +0200 Status: RO Hi there. Not that i am particular clever with this period or anything, but i think that ivory for the sleaves would be quite fine. And you should be able to find fine machinemade Chantilly laces in black, at least here in Copenhagen i have seen it very often. How about ivory gloves, or cream coloured? white would be two hard in colour, but i am not sure! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1861evening gown - help w/color of accessories > My next project (among many) is the 1861-4 evening gown from Patterns of > Fashion 2, on page 22. I've always loved that very elegant sweep of lace > from the center front, and I actually have a very old black lace stole that > will be perfect for that. It's not as ornate as the Chantilly lace in the > original, but I think I'm going to fancy it up with some lace appliques. > > I found this wonderful forest green striped cotton/satin at (of all places) > JoAnns that will be perfect. It's not too heavy, so it won't drag down, but > it's heavy enough to drape nicely with lots of body. No problem doing the > lace trim in black, but what about the undersleeves? The original fabric > was black and pink striped, and the udnersleeves were pink silk, but I'm > working with all forest green and black lace. I was thinking a sheer ivory > for the sleeves but I'm not sure. I don't think a sheer black would look > good at all, but there's no other color in the dress to pull from. I think > green undersleeves would look pretty awful. Any suggestions other than > ivory for the undersleeves? > > Also, what color gloves would should be worn? Most of the period references > show wrist length gloves for evening wear, even with elbow-length sleeves, > such as these, but I'm not sure what color they should be. Black seems > logical to tie in with the color of the gown, but that's seems too > reminiscent of mourning. But if everything on the dress is black or green > (not counting hte as yet to be decided undersleeves), wouldn't white gloves > look odd? > > I'm now going to start the hunt for the right Chantilly lace for the trim. > Hopefully it can be found somewhere in downtown Los Angeles. > > Thanks, > Julie > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 19:40:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10970 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:40:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CNf63Y016329; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:41:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CNf1Za008023; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9CNewZa008009 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:40:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021012234058.87640.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:40:58 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-652458377-1034466058=:86849" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:40:58 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --0-652458377-1034466058=:86849 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings to the list, I finished my latest project by the October 1st deadline I had, although it's taken me a while to get the photos taken and processed. But they're finally done. I've done a web page with the info and pics to make it easier to see them, if anyone would like to. I have only two gripes with my photos - my scoliosis was playing up so I look less than happy in some shots (I've only used the ones that didn't have me looking totally murderous) and my 13 year old tried very hard to centre the ponytail for the ribbon-wrapped hairdo but pulled it out of centre while wrapping my braids (I can't complain - I was glad to have her help :) ) Oh, that and the fact that the camicia shots were washed out with flash, and not clear enough without flash, and my 15 year old el cheapo camera can't focus close-up for quids! A-hem.... :) You can find the page here: http://members.tripod.com/realm_of_venus/mygarb/index.htm Bella --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger for SMS- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends --0-652458377-1034466058=:86849 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Greetings to the list,

I finished my latest project by the October 1st deadline I had, although it's taken me a while to get the photos taken and processed. But they're finally done.

I've done a web page with the info and pics to make it easier to see them, if anyone would like to. I have only two gripes with my photos - my scoliosis was playing up so I look less than happy in some shots (I've only used the ones that didn't have me
looking totally murderous) and my 13 year old tried very hard to centre the ponytail for the ribbon-wrapped hairdo but pulled it out of centre while wrapping my braids (I can't complain - I was glad to have her help :) ) Oh, that and the fact that the camicia shots were washed out with flash, and not clear enough without flash, and my 15 year old el cheapo camera can't focus close-up for quids!

A-hem.... :)

You can find the page here:

http://members.tripod.com/realm_of_venus/mygarb/index.htm


Bella


Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends --0-652458377-1034466058=:86849-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 20:13:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11073 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 20:13:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D0D13Y017537; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D0D0Za014072; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D0CmZa014014 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.206.137.146] (account axejudge@accessus.net HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.6) with ESMTP id 118997471 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:12:42 -0500 Message-ID: <3DA8BAC6.8010909@accessus.net> From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1861evening gown - help w/color of accessories References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012130728.00a409a0@postoffice.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: axejudge@accessus.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:13:58 -0500 Status: RO Well, I like your choice of color - but maybe that's because I did almost the exact same thing about 10 years ago! I made my dress out of forest green bengaline, but with white lace, so the white gloves didn't look odd at all. Have fun! Karen Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: > My next project (among many) is the 1861-4 evening gown from Patterns > of Fashion 2, on page 22. I've always loved that very elegant sweep of > lace from the center front, and I actually have a very old black lace > stole that will be perfect for that. It's not as ornate as the > Chantilly lace in the original, but I think I'm going to fancy it up > with some lace appliques. > > I found this wonderful forest green striped cotton/satin at (of all > places) JoAnns that will be perfect. It's not too heavy, so it won't > drag down, but it's heavy enough to drape nicely with lots of body. No > problem doing the lace trim in black, but what about the undersleeves? > The original fabric was black and pink striped, and the udnersleeves > were pink silk, but I'm working with all forest green and black lace. > I was thinking a sheer ivory for the sleeves but I'm not sure. I don't > think a sheer black would look good at all, but there's no other color > in the dress to pull from. I think green undersleeves would look > pretty awful. Any suggestions other than ivory for the undersleeves? > > Also, what color gloves would should be worn? Most of the period > references show wrist length gloves for evening wear, even with > elbow-length sleeves, such as these, but I'm not sure what color they > should be. Black seems logical to tie in with the color of the gown, > but that's seems too reminiscent of mourning. But if everything on the > dress is black or green (not counting hte as yet to be decided > undersleeves), wouldn't white gloves look odd? > > I'm now going to start the hunt for the right Chantilly lace for the > trim. Hopefully it can be found somewhere in downtown Los Angeles. > > Thanks, > Julie > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 21:23:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11329 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:23:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D1O83Y019845; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D1O0Za026984; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D1NOZa026855 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phil2042.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.42]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D1NLXv030356 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:23:22 -0400 Message-ID: <3DA8C826.7B08F963@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] coloured linen References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:11:02 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. If what Robin is saying is the case, and the Tacuinum evidence refers to the wearing of linen garments only made of white linen (and made by women), then does this say that in Southern Italy in that period it was possible, without shame, to walk around in ones underthings? Or perhaps linen was worn as outergarments, but only in white? There are a lot of interesting connections made here, but only a few of them are complete. Mike T. BTW, is there historical evidence of dyeing completed garments, made from imported fabrics that come in only white? > So, that last bit might serve as some supporting evidence that linen was > used for gowns, not just underwear, in Southern European summers. But it's > not definitive. > > Interestingly, the illumination in the edition I have here, which was > taken from a Northern Italian manuscript of the Tacuinum, shows > seamstresses at work cutting plain white linen from a bolt, and sewing > plain white linen. The shapes of the pieces are not recognizable as any > particular kind of clothing, just yardage. By contrast, the page on wool > in one manuscript shows a male tailor fitting a man's red gown, and his > assistant is working on a greyish-blue gown, while a green gown lies on a > table. In the wool illustration in another Tacuinum manuscript from the > same region, the scene is much the same, but shows bolts as well as > finished garments, of red and blue, again being sewn and fitted by men to > men. > > So there's always the chance that while the Arabic text referred to use of > linen gowns, the Northern Italian illuminator may have known linen only in > its bleached form, which may have been sewn (by women) into underwear > rather than tailored (by men) into gowns. It's impossible to tell for > sure, from this little sliver of information, but there's also not enough > here to definitively support the idea of dyed linen for gowns. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 21:43:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11447 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:43:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D1i23Y020679; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D1i1Za000820; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D1hmZa000764 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:43:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phil2042.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.42]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D1hjXv011670 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:43:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3DA8CD03.722A8B63@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021012080445.035d1c60@saltmine.radix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:31:47 -0400 Status: RO Hi, I think the dresses you are referring to are in the Tailor's and in the Furrier's shop in Jost Amman's Book of Trades (pgs 53 and 54 in the Dover edition). They seem to be just bodices attached to skirts, not corsets, but the way that they are displayed may indicate some sort of stiffening in the bodice (or merely artistic license, who knows?) Interestingly enough, we have an 18th or 19th Cent Swedish version of the item on the wall at the Furrier's at the New Sweden Museum. The top is woolen cloth lined with hemp or linen canvas, and the skirts are made of sheepshin, tanned with the fleece on and turned in for warmth. Just goes to show you, good ideas stay around a while. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 12 23:52:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11881 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:52:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D3q43Y025438; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D3q1Za024352; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D3pgZa024272 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021013035136.DPEW28253.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:51:36 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021012203753.009f4e30@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021012080445.035d1c60@saltmine.radix.net> References: <3DA39F3C.D5B60352@faucet.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 20:42:47 -0700 Status: RO thanks everyone for the advice. I have some other things to try now that are better than my original idea. it takes a while to come up to speed on these things. Now that I have done a number of costumes of this period, (ie the renn faire period) and looked at a ton of pictures I have a better idea of what is actual Elizabethan and what is faire Elizabethan. All I can say is, I am glad I am not queen. Maryann At 08:06 AM 10/12/2002 -0400, Kevin + Mara wrote: >In fact, doesn't the corset in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ (I forget >the name of the wearer) have eyelets for just this purpose -- i.e., >keeping up the farthingale? So it's a period solution. > >Cheers, >Mara > >At 10:15 PM 10/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: >>I can't tell from your description if you are wearing a corset or not. >>If so, I hope it has straps. If you are and it does, you can use the >>"points" method described by Rebecca to tie your farthingale to your >>corset. Except for your bloomers (yer on yer own there!) everything >>else rests on top, and nothing falls down. This method has saved me all >>sorts of back pain, for while I do have hips, they don't appreciate >>taking the full weight of all that garb. To see a picture and >>description of what I did, go to >>http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/under.html >> >>If you're not wearing a corset, you might consider one (with straps!) >>for your next effort. I know it seems like too many layers, but IMHO it >>certainly beats making _every_ bodice into a corset instead. >> >>Margo's suggestion of sewing the waistband of the skirt into the bodice >>is a very good one--unless the bodice opens in the front and the skirt >>in the back, which has sometimes been my quandary in the past with this >>method. >> >>Best of luck, >>Melanie Schuessler > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 00:04:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11915 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:04:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4543Y025974; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D452Za027004; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D44uZa026946 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021013040450.AHU24958.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:04:50 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021012204607.009feec0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, From: MaryAnn Jones In-Reply-To: <002201c26f75$b9ee63a0$9ad0adcb@michaela> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] victorian period Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 20:56:01 -0700 Status: RO I made a 1860s dress with the usual underskirt overskirt and bodice and used a vintage sari for the overskirt and bodice. the embroidered part of the end of the sari just fit the pattern of the overskirt and there was plenty left over for a bodice and some of the embroidered part for the sleeves. I am assuming that with the connection that England had with India that this wasn't a coincidence. Did they use saris in their gowns? If they did, when did they start? When did brocades from China show up? I feel free to ask these questions, because I have been stunned by the level of scholarship displayed on this list. It makes me want to throw my geology degree away and go study clothing. maryann >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 00:18:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11969 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:18:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4J23Y026447; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4J1Za029605; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4IlZa029529 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021013041841.KYS24595.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com> for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:18:41 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021012210833.009fec50@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up In-Reply-To: <3DA39F3C.D5B60352@faucet.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:09:39 -0700 Status: RO thanks for the pictures. It makes it easy to see how it works. Since my chemise opens in the front, there is no reason that I couldn't do the same thing with my bloomers. maryann At 10:15 PM 10/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I can't tell from your description if you are wearing a corset or not. >If so, I hope it has straps. If you are and it does, you can use the >"points" method described by Rebecca to tie your farthingale to your >corset. Except for your bloomers (yer on yer own there!) everything >else rests on top, and nothing falls down. This method has saved me all >sorts of back pain, for while I do have hips, they don't appreciate >taking the full weight of all that garb. To see a picture and >description of what I did, go to >http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/under.html > >If you're not wearing a corset, you might consider one (with straps!) >for your next effort. I know it seems like too many layers, but IMHO it >certainly beats making _every_ bodice into a corset instead. > >Margo's suggestion of sewing the waistband of the skirt into the bodice >is a very good one--unless the bodice opens in the front and the skirt >in the back, which has sometimes been my quandary in the past with this >method. > >Best of luck, >Melanie Schuessler >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 00:21:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11984 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:21:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4M13Y026525; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4M1Za000252; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4LbZa000121 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:21:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021013042131.ECYV28253.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com> for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:21:31 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021012211143.009fd820@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up In-Reply-To: <017201c26f2d$050dd800$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:12:42 -0700 Status: RO this sounds like just what I need. I think that I will try this solution. thanks At 07:44 PM 10/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Lady Mab > >I had the same problem with my husband. His venetians would not stay up on >their own. He's a rather skinny guy with, of course, no hips either. So I >put grommets in the waistband of the pants and grommets on a strip along the >bottom of the doublet, which is hidden by the tabs/skirts, and tied them >together. Works like a charm, and is very period. Well, maybe not grommets, >per se, but eyelets and lacing the whole thing together with points, >definitely. In fact, that little detail has gained him major points in two >Bristol Renn Faire costume contests, both of which he won first place men's >middle class. > >Good luck! > >********************** >Rebecca Schmitt >aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of >Bristol, >BRF FOF > >So many books, so little time > >lotsofteapots@charter.net >********************** > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MaryAnn Jones" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 6:46 PM >Subject: [h-cost] keeping it up > > > > I have been making costumes for a long time but never for myself. I just > > joined a Scottish Elizabethan (1560's) reenactment group and have finally > > made a costume for me. I am supposed to be a Baroness (I wanted to wear a > > french hood and be at Mary's court) so I made a costume with an overskirt, > > underskirt and separate bodice that has both side lacing and back > > lacing. It is brown linen over salmon linen which is okay with my > > group. I wanted to try it out so I wore it to Casa de Renn Faire in > > Northern California. I discovered that it is very comfortable except that > > since I am built like a beach ball, I can't hold a skirt up. I added a > > belt. It helped a little, but not much, because even a belt expects to > > encounter hips sticking out from my truly magnificent stomach. I >decided > > that the answer was to add hooks to the bodice and eyes to the skirt. >back > > to the faire to try this out. again it helped, but not a lot because the > > hooks wouldn't stay in the eyes. > > > > Now I have to add a bum roll and farthingale to the mix. I thought about > > adding an underbodice or suspenders, but they wouldn't take care of my > > bloomers or bum roll. Also, quite frankly, I am of that delicate age when > > I could be in a blinding snowstorm and complain about the heat. To be > > honest, I have never really experienced a snow storm so I am speaking > > metaphorically. > > > > So this is my latest plan. I am going to add some grommets to the bodice > > and cover them with a stomacher. I am going to add grommets to the front > > of the skirts, the bum roll and the bloomers and farthingale and lace them > > all together and hide it with the stomacher. I will put grommets in the > > side of the skirts and grommets in the modesty panels in the side of the > > bodice and lace those together. They will be hidden by the lacing at the > > side. Naturally I have quite enough of a butt to hold up the back so that > > isn't a problem. > > > > Does anyone have any ideas or opinions? I have to look historically > > accurate (no hand sewn seams. they would lose me there). With my next > > costume, I will probably just make them connected with a skirting to hide > > where they are joined, but this bodice is too boned for that to be a >viable > > option and I really like this costume and have sunk a fortune in trims in > > it and am not ready to dump it and start over. > > > > Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, the fat, fifty and forgetful Lady >Mab > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 00:27:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11997 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:27:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4S43Y026815; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4S0Za001287; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D4R3Za001102 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A6F3D30200EE; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:30:43 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A71992800EA; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:31:21 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c27270$bb428e40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Vintage Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:26:40 -0400 Status: RO Vintage patterns on eBay have been going for some high prices on eBay but this one is unreal... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=721097025 Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 01:39:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12188 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:39:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D5b43Y029348; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D5b1Za012835; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D5aoZa012801 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:36:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-64-175-45-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.45.127]) by pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g9D5anne536620 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:36:49 -0400 Message-ID: <003001c2727a$caf70c80$7f2daf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <001301c27270$bb428e40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vintage Patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:38:42 -0700 Status: RO Ok, that's nuts. Is it collectors? Do they want to own old patterns or do they make dresses from them? I couldn't care less if I have copies of old patterns, I just like to save the drafting time. How obsessed does one have to be to pay $400 plus for a dress that simple? Granted it has the side detail, but still... It is lovely though. ::goes off to try to figure out how much time it would take to draft that dress pattern:: angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "And thus I clothe my naked villany With odd old ends stoln' forth of holy writ, And seem a saint when most I play the devil" Richard III, I, iii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] Vintage Patterns > Vintage patterns on eBay have been going for some high prices on eBay but > this one is unreal... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=721097025 > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 01:39:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12195 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:39:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D5d13Y029396; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D5d1Za013154; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D5cDZa013017 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p688-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.180] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 180b8m-0004QU-00; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:18:13 +1300 Message-ID: <003d01c27277$ed2cdc10$b4c2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021012080445.035d1c60@saltmine.radix.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:18:11 +1300 Status: RO > And I could swear that I've seen 16th c. German pictures of > dress-makers' shops with something hanging on display that looked > like a farthingale attached to _some_ sort of top -- I'd have to dig > them up to see if there was clear detail, but my recollection is that > the top was vaguely a sleeveless, low-neckline shape, so the > relationship, if any, to a corset (over? under? equals?) is unclear > in my memory. Yep, from descriptions othr people have mentioned it's one that's in .. Everyday Dress 1650-1900 by Elizabeth Eewing. That should hopefully be in most people's libraries and it's in the introduction. I scanned it but it seems to have been lost during my computor switch or when I had to do a system recover on my computor. It's not really a farthingale, just what might be a kirtle as it is hanging by straps from pegs. And the skirt is pleated, not hooped:) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 03:19:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12547 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:19:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D7K43Y002302; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D7K0Za029015; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D7J4Za028868 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-113-171.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.113.171]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALV51539; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 08:16:58 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <013001c27289$55025f20$2d654ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Indian influence in victorian costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 08:22:47 +0100 Status: RO >Did they use saris in their gowns? It is an interesting question and is riddled with questions about how they would view saris, native costume and cultural perceptions, it is possible that the would not because to do so might be seen as going native. I have seen one victorian bodice whose cut was extremely remanisant of India style cutting, Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 04:10:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12811 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:10:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D8B23Y003961; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D8B1Za006910; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D8AcZa006863 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:10:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AB5AD46700E8; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:14:18 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB8150900A2; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:14:57 -0500 Message-ID: <00f501c2728f$cacb3500$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <013001c27289$55025f20$2d654ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Indian influence in victorian costume X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:09:02 -0400 Status: RO I have seen a lot of Grecian and Japanese styles from 1880s through 1920s. I do have an Egyptian dress image from 1923. It is really cool! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 04:25:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13135 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:25:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D8P23Y004252; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D8P0Za008937; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D8OMZa008842 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:24:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.96.123]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALZ43775; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:23:23 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000601c27292$77a83820$7b604ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <013001c27289$55025f20$2d654ed5@pavilion> <00f501c2728f$cacb3500$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Indian influence in victorian costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:28:10 +0100 Status: RO >I have seen a lot of Grecian and Japanese styles from 1880s through 1920s. I do have an Egyptian dress image from 1923. It is really cool! Yes I think later 1920s especially borrowed a lot from Egypt, you also seea lot more jewellry influences the scarab comes to mind for Egypt & there was Raj jewellry too I belive. The 1880 Grecian is more in artistic form I think isn't it ? And greek classics is a different perception culturally from ones subjects, I feel ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 04:44:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13257 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:44:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D8b23Y005297; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D8b1Za010915; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D8aWZa010817 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A16B905100CC; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:40:11 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A1939C800EA; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:40:51 -0500 Message-ID: <00ff01c27293$61658f80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <013001c27289$55025f20$2d654ed5@pavilion> <00f501c2728f$cacb3500$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <000601c27292$77a83820$7b604ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Indian influence in victorian costume X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:34:43 -0400 Status: RO Mel, I have seen several versions of Grecian dresses in the Delineator magazine. They do not state theatrical. Generally they are good about explaining occasions for garments to be worn. I also see in the 1890s, empire waisted dresses for women. So strange because I haven't seen women photographed in this style for the 1890s. I eventually want to do a time line of when these different time period influence the 1880-1920s. I plan on teaching a class on recycled fashions one day. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 05:03:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13308 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 05:03:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D9433Y005811; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D941Za014699; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D93gZa014655 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:03:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A7C9966B00CC; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:07:21 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7F19EA00EA; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:08:01 -0500 Message-ID: <012601c27297$250afb20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] More Additions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 05:01:39 -0400 Status: RO I have added more guests to the Online Costume Ball. Several h-costumers are in the additions. So now the fun begins... try to figure out who they are!!! Some are h-costumers are out of their normal periods than you are used to seeing. I think from my last notice we ended with Group 5. So start are Group 6. We have 37 guests so far. I have added a new category... theater costumes. An exception to the Ball rules for this category... You may send someone else's photo in this category if you have their permission and you made the costume. Have fun!!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 05:15:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13344 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 05:15:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D9G43Y006007; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D9G1Za020042; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f147.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9D9FXZa017209 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 03:15:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:15:28 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:15:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2002 09:15:28.0565 (UTC) FILETIME=[127EAE50:01C27299] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 02:15:28 -0700 Status: RO >You can find the page here: > >http://members.tripod.com/realm_of_venus/mygarb/index.htm > > >Bella > > That is so completely incredible!! Congratulations on a fantastic Job, very well done. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 06:54:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13562 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 06:54:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DAs93Y007806; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:54:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DAs1Za028856; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DArjZa028810 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 180gNU-0008JL-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:53:44 +0100 Message-ID: <9GFhqnB$YTq9IwzP@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Indian influence in victorian costume References: <013001c27289$55025f20$2d654ed5@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <013001c27289$55025f20$2d654ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:00:47 +0100 Status: RO I would think they might adopt the designs - paisley pattern is supposed to come from India, and I know in the late 18th/early 19th century there was a huge vogue for home furnishings and wallpapers in Indian and Chinese patterns - reaching its height in the Brighton Pavilion? Although I know next to nothing about Victorian costume, I wouldn't have thought they would have a use in their own clothing for the lightweight silks etc. And surely they wouldn't have adopted the styles - I'm thinking of all those native women in different parts of the Empire forced into "decent, Christian" clothing. Only a few very eccentric types would have gone the other way. Jean Melanie Wilson wrote >>Did they use saris in their gowns? > >It is an interesting question and is riddled with questions about how they >would view saris, native costume and cultural perceptions, it is possible >that the would not because to do so might be seen as going native. I have >seen one victorian bodice whose cut was extremely remanisant of India style >cutting, > > Mel > > > > >This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received >it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose >the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of >this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the >Company, unless specifically stated. > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 09:57:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14241 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:57:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DDw63Y012148; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 07:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DDw1Za025680; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 07:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12008.mail.yahoo.com (web12008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.216]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9DDvJZa025525 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 07:57:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021013135714.87007.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.250] by web12008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 06:57:14 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] colored linen is period when? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 06:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I've been following the colored linen discussions with great interest. At what decade or so would the list be comfortable saying that colored linen was used for outer garments? By the museum's era 1840s+ linen was a matter of who could get it or wanted it or could afford it. Cotton was the poor man's cloth as it came out of the New England mills by the tens of thousands of yards. Thanks. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 13:03:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19147 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:03:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DH2B3Y018596; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:02:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DH21Za027903; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DH10Za027692 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p14.directcon.net [206.170.184.113]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g9DH0b7A001700; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:00:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021013100520.0087f660@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, "h-costume" From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vintage Patterns In-Reply-To: <001301c27270$bb428e40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:05:20 -0700 Status: RO At 12:26 AM 10/13/2002 -0400, Penny Ladnier wrote: >Vintage patterns on eBay have been going for some high prices on eBay but >this one is unreal... >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=721097025 > That's amazing. I tought it might have been a mistake, with someone adding a zero by accident, but I checked the bid history and there were six people bidding over $100. I'm going to look through my old pattern stash! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 13:06:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19163 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:06:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DH633Y018765; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DH61Za028695; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DH5LZa028562 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.111.55]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALZ69817; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:04:17 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00d701c272db$3d2a93c0$376f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" References: <013001c27289$55025f20$2d654ed5@pavilion> <00f501c2728f$cacb3500$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <000601c27292$77a83820$7b604ed5@pavilion> <00ff01c27293$61658f80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Indian influence in victorian costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:09:06 +0100 Status: RO >I have seen several versions of Grecian dresses in the Delineator magazine. They do not state theatrical. Generally they are good about explaining occasions for garments to be worn. >I also see in the 1890s, empire waisted dresses for women. So strange because I haven't seen women photographed in this style for the 1890s I think you'll find both these are still artistic as in Bohemean, Rational or reform dres and the aesthetic movement, I think it was in Oscar Wildes America I saw these (the book has a good collection of these styles) . I didn't mean theatrical sorry for any misunderstanding, but rather the movement suggestion women could still be beatiful without being restriced.... You also see medieval/gothic styles in this type of ress, and mistures, I'm desperatly trying to remember exactly where I saw these. There is I think an exibition in a museum in the US running currently there is a web ref but I didn't bookmark it I fear Hang on Here you go I thought I made some notes If you don't want to be corseted look to Rational, artistic, reform or aesthetic dress. Here are a few web links there are 100s more ! "Any costumes which impair or contradict the natural lines of the human frame are to be rejected as ugly, injurious, or both; for they are the abuse of dress, not its proper use." --Mary Haweis, The Art of Dress,1879 http://web.nwe.ufl.edu/~kchancey/corsetaesthetic.html http://costume.osu.edu/Reforming_Fashion/artistic_dress.htm http://www.costumes.org/pages/fashiondress/dress_reformblip.htm http://www.costumes.org/galleryimages/rationaldress/ Oscar wildes America p154 has 2 empire waist dresses 1883 (photo) I'll get back to you on the Grecian one Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 13:32:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19240 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:32:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DHX23Y020071; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DHX1cr004431; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DHVbZa004094 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04349 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:36:01 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: LIST H costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Indian influence in victorian costume In-Reply-To: <00d701c272db$3d2a93c0$376f4ed5@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:36:01 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Melanie Wilson wrote: > >I also see in the 1890s, empire waisted dresses for women. So > >strange because I haven't seen women photographed in this style for > >the 1890s > > I think you'll find both these are still artistic as in Bohemean, > Rational or reform dres and the aesthetic movement, I think it was in > Oscar Wildes America I saw these (the book has a good collection of > these styles) . I didn't mean theatrical sorry for any > misunderstanding, but rather the movement suggestion women could still > be beatiful without being restriced.... You also see medieval/gothic > styles in this type of ress, and mistures, I'm desperatly trying to > remember exactly where I saw these. Stella Mary Newton's book on "Dress Reformers" gives an excellent presentation of this movement, and some good pictures and sources. When I was researching Victorian approaches to medieval dress, I also found a number of references in 19th century books on dress to these sorts of styles -- some positive, some negative. Haweis was one, as Melanie also quotes. > "Any costumes which impair or contradict the natural lines of the > human frame are to be rejected as ugly, injurious, or both; for they > are the abuse of dress, not its proper use." --Mary Haweis, The Art > of Dress,1879 She wrote another book on "The Art of Decoration" that addresses some of the same matters. Some of her conclusions are rather far-fetched, as she had no compunctions about altering history to suit her theories ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 15:42:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20128 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 15:42:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DJg23Y025296; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DJg0cr002043; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DJfccr001947 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0H3X00A1KQMWXF@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:40:08 -1000 (HST) From: annora In-reply-to: To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: Subject: [h-cost] washing suggestions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:41:09 -1000 (HST) Status: RO The question of possibly using sari fabric in English costume is prompting a question of my own. I have 12+ yards of Indian cotton that has a border woven of real metal thread and am wondering what the best way to wash it would be. There's a LOT of excess dye in the fabric, as when I handle it for even only a few minutes, I can clearly see my hands changing color. Normally I wouldn't hesitate to run it through the washer a few times but I'm worried that the metal thread border will be permanently twisted and crumpled. I'm not really concerned about the color changing--it could go several shades lighter and would still be okay but I don't want it to be streaky or have the border get crushed. I'm not planning on sewing anything with it--I use it for draped "costumes" so cutting it up and handwashing a piece at a time wouldn't work either. Would sloshing the whole 12 yards in the bathtub and loosely folding it to hang over a shower curtain rod work? If I had a yard and a clothesline I'd hang it up and hose it down. Thanks for any suggestions. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 16:01:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20245 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DK123Y026250; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 14:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DK11cr006063; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 14:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DK0Scr005936 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 14:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04718 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 15:05:10 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] washing suggestions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 15:05:10 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, annora wrote: > If I had a yard and a clothesline I'd hang it up and hose it down. What about a long clothesline, outside, and hang it lengthwise along the line? 12 yards is long, but a 6-yard clothesline isn't out of the question, and you could do half at a time. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 18:41:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21147 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:41:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DMf63Y003119; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DMf1cr009098; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DMe1cr008898 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 13 Oct 2002 15:31:00 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A42332000104; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 15:30:59 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sun, 13 Oct 2002 15:30:59 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] washing suggestions Message-ID: <000001c27309$9eded9e0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:41:05 -0500 Status: RO Anora-- Bathtub sounds fine to me, but don't use plain water. Add some Synthropol to end the crocking/bleeding of color. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of annora Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 2:41 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] washing suggestions The question of possibly using sari fabric in English costume is prompting a question of my own. I have 12+ yards of Indian cotton that has a border woven of real metal thread and am wondering what the best way to wash it would be. There's a LOT of excess dye in the fabric, as when I handle it for even only a few minutes, I can clearly see my hands changing color. Normally I wouldn't hesitate to run it through the washer a few times but I'm worried that the metal thread border will be permanently twisted and crumpled. I'm not really concerned about the color changing--it could go several shades lighter and would still be okay but I don't want it to be streaky or have the border get crushed. I'm not planning on sewing anything with it--I use it for draped "costumes" so cutting it up and handwashing a piece at a time wouldn't work either. Would sloshing the whole 12 yards in the bathtub and loosely folding it to hang over a shower curtain rod work? If I had a yard and a clothesline I'd hang it up and hose it down. Thanks for any suggestions. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 18:42:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21155 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:42:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DMh03Y003214; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DMh0cr009506; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9DMgMcr009395 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14451 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2002 22:42:21 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-83.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.166.66.83) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 2002 22:42:21 -0000 Message-ID: <002501c27308$b11d1140$5342a6d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] washing suggestions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:34:25 -0400 Status: RO > > If I had a yard and a clothesline I'd hang it up and hose it down. I think maybe the "yard" she is wishing for is the kind with grass. Janet (who has a rather ugly 16' clothesline in the middle of her backyard so her significant other can hose down tarps, tent walls and other things that go camping.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 19:01:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21251 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 19:01:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DN223Y003889; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DN21cr013201; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9DN1scr013161 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:01:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05070 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:06:36 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] washing suggestions In-Reply-To: <002501c27308$b11d1140$5342a6d0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:06:36 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Janet Davis wrote: > > > If I had a yard and a clothesline I'd hang it up and hose it down. > > I think maybe the "yard" she is wishing for is the kind with grass. Oh, duh. My brain was still on the "12 yards" of fabric. --Robin, very glad we don't have to mow 12 yards here _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 20:13:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21561 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 20:13:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E0C23Y006779; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E0C0cr027175; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9E0Bvcr027160 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:11:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021014001157.26198.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:11:57 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:11:57 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Jennifer Sena wrote: > That is so completely incredible!! Congratulations > on a fantastic Job, very > well done. Thank you so much! :) I couldn't have done it without a great pattern - my skills aren't up to drafting doublet-style bodices yet. :) Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 20:18:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21596 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 20:18:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E0J23Y007094; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E0J1cr028715; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E0Ihcr028629 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:18:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.252]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3Y00D3I3J6GR@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:18:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Indian influence in victorian costume In-reply-to: <013001c27289$55025f20$2d654ed5@pavilion> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021013171344.00cf5830@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:17:43 -0700 Status: RO > >Did they use saris in their gowns? > >It is an interesting question and is riddled with questions about how they >would view saris, native costume and cultural perceptions, it is possible >that the would not because to do so might be seen as going native. I have >seen one victorian bodice whose cut was extremely remanisant of India style >cutting, I have seen one Victorian dress that appears to have been made of saree material. It's in one of those two books about surviving clothing from Queen Victoria's family. As I can't lay my hands on it at the moment, all I can remember is that the dress was blue with silver or gold embroidery, and it had a bustle, so it must have been 1870s or 1880s. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 21:15:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21840 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:15:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E1G43Y009467; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 19:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E1G1cr010411; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 19:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f210.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E1Flcr010348 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 19:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:15:42 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 01:15:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] washing suggestions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 01:15:42.0571 (UTC) FILETIME=[371E53B0:01C2731F] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:15:42 -0700 Status: RO Would sloshing the whole 12 yards in the bathtub and loosely >folding it to hang over a shower curtain rod work? If I had a yard and a >clothesline I'd hang it up and hose it down. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > >--annora How about using a tension rod in the shower and getting an add on hand held shower thingy. I have one in my shower because my husband and I need different heights to the spray. You can direct the flow in any direction you want so there's not a single focus area for the water. Then you can hang and hose without the yard. Plus it all goes down the shower drain instead of the grass. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 22:51:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22249 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 22:51:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E2p33Y013586; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 20:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E2p1cr028557; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 20:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E2ofcr028498 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 20:50:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p39-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.103] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 180vJX-0004iL-00; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:50:40 +1300 Message-ID: <004a01c2732c$7f0b08a0$67ccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <013001c27289$55025f20$2d654ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Indian influence in victorian costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:50:45 +1300 Status: RO > >Did they use saris in their gowns? > > It is an interesting question and is riddled with questions about how they > would view saris, native costume and cultural perceptions, it is possible > that the would not because to do so might be seen as going native. I have > seen one victorian bodice whose cut was extremely remanisant of India style > cutting, I haven't seen any real examples of this, but in the musical The Mystery of Edwin Drood (or Drood) the character Helena Landless was originally costumed in a bustle dress that looked like it was draped from a a sari. It was a check patterm but the draping looked like it was inspired by sari draping rather than western draping for the bustle. This would have been to suggest her staus as a half-caste rather than her being fashion concious. michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 13 23:29:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22405 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:29:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E3U43Y015273; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E3U0cr006332; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E3TYcr006263 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m35.in-tch.com [216.166.191.35]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9E3EQb02630 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAA3B9B.16926852@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] washing suggestions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:35:55 -0600 Status: RO Hi, gang! I'm back from an SCA event (Crown Tourney), downloading my emails, and this topic caught my eye--I had this related experience today I know a lot of you would get a chuckle from.... See...I live in a state that only has 2 Hancock fabric stores (the nearest thing we've got out here to a decent brick-and-mortar fabric source), and one of them was located in the town our event was in, so this morning before we set off for home (6 hour drive, not counting stops. blech), we went to the Hancocks. Sorry, Robin...I kept my eye out for some blue wool for you...saw the right color on the wrong fabric. ;-( I *did* manage to score enough light-weight cream colored wool fabric, and a matching amount of rusty-orange (madder-dyed looking) wool to make some hose for my new outfits though. When the Nice Little Old Lady was cutting it, she apologized for any bits of glitter that might be on my pieces, since the previous customer had been buying something glittery for Halloween. The look of shock and horror on her face when I told her it was no big deal--that I was just going to take them home and throw them in the machine was *just priceless.* Well, dear, you know...it's wool, and it should be dry-cleaned, etc., etc. or it'll shrink...Her face didn't get any better when I cheerfully told her that that's exactly what I wanted it to do--to full, after all, isn't that what wool is supposed to do? I'm sure she's convinced I belong to the Dark Side, but geez, it's gonna be 14th/15th hose--no way would I continually want to have dry clean my socks! ;-P --sue, going back to spoiling her 4 kitties, and doing laundry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 00:12:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22651 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:12:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E4D23Y016976; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 22:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E4D1cr014441; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 22:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E4CTcr014310 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 22:12:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A5013A7100EE; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:16:01 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A5315ED0212; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:16:49 -0500 Message-ID: <006801c27337$dc9457a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20021013100520.0087f660@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vintage Patterns X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:12:07 -0400 Status: RO I have seen a few go over $100 but $400 is crazy. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 01:32:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22862 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 01:32:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E5V23Y020015; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E5V0cr000244; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E5UJcr029985 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.106.246]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALW01823; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:28:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000c01c27343$51dc7280$f66a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] washing suggestions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:34:05 +0100 Status: RO >Would sloshing the whole 12 yards in the bathtub and loosely folding it to hang over a shower curtain rod work? It should help, it might be worth putting some salt in the water to try & fix thedye a bit better too, but it seems very badly dyed Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 07:27:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08800 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:27:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EBO33Y000403; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 05:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EBO0cr028754; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 05:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f113.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.113]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EBNwcr028727 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 05:23:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 04:23:53 -0700 Received: from 63.12.15.171 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:23:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.12.15.171] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 11:23:53.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D5FAA40:01C27374] Subject: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:53:53 +0930 Status: RO Hello I'm looking for urban legands concerning the history of fashion. I have found lots of information (on the net and in books) that I doubt to be true. most of these sources are aimed at womens studies students (high school) and so now I wandering just what these girls are learning. Recently on the list was that oddity of victorian nipple piercing. Other things I have read about are: Iron renaissance corsets - I have only ever seen one picture of one and it looks to me to be a touture device and not some thing that would have been worn for fashion. 15"-20" waists in mid 1800's - It is my understanding that it wasn't until the late 1800's that waists got that small. In the earlier times small waists were an illusion caused by "big" skirts, "big" sleeves (causing visual width at the shoulders) and pointed bodices. Victorian women had ribs removed to gain smaller waists - Impossible, I say. They didn't have the medical knowledge back then. In the 1700's women wore corsets to make their waists smaller - From what I can tell it is the wide skirts and pointed bodices that create an illusion of a small waist. Corsets of this period are still very much "V" shaped and therefore designed to smooth and lift. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. Does any one else know of any more of these "urban legands concerning the history of fashion", I'm beggining to find some of them rather ammusing. Rebecca _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 07:55:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08863 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:55:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EBt23Y001321; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 05:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EBt1cr004259; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 05:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EBsTcr004192 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 05:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9EBuXB27369.; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:56:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:54:27 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9EBsTcr004192 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:54:03 +0100 Status: RO English Heritage's official video of the 2000 History in Action event at Kirby Hall includes footage of a man (dressed as a sailor, for some reason) holding forth about 19th century surgery, including the rib removal story. I too find it highly suspect. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 07:59:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08873 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:59:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EBx13Y001453; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 05:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EBx1cr005009; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 05:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9EBwtcr004977 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 05:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021014115855.87671.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:58:55 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021012234058.87640.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:58:55 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Gorgeous Bella, absolutely gorgeous! Nicole > A-hem.... :) > > You can find the page here: > > http://members.tripod.com/realm_of_venus/mygarb/index.htm > > > Bella > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger for SMS- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 08:05:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08911 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:05:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EC503Y001701; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EC50cr006298; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EC4dcr006225 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew ([213.78.125.241]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALW28848; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:02:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00a301c2737a$d6d542a0$f17d4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history offashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:11:33 +0100 Status: RO >English Heritage's official video of the 2000 History in Action event at Kirby Hall includes footage of a man (dressed as a sailor, for some reason) holding forth about 19th century surgery, including the rib removal story. I too find it highly suspect I believe the gentleman in question plays a ships surgeon Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 08:08:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08921 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EC813Y001803; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EC81cr006938; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9EC7Ccr006770 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:07:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021014120711.75429.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:07:11 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] UK online trim store? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:07:11 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Does anybody know of a UK shop that is online and sells trims and such lovely things? I don't have any nice glittery things for my normal clothing *pout* I love the Calontir Trim site but I can't shop there, they don't even accept electronic payment. Cheers for any info, can also be non-online Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 08:58:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09144 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:58:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ECv23Y003411; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ECv0cr016574; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ECuacr016453 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 06:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.147.5fbbcc (25508) for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:56:09 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <147.5fbbcc.2adc18e9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_147.5fbbcc.2adc18e9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:56:09 EDT Status: RO --part1_147.5fbbcc.2adc18e9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/2002 7:24:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lady_adele@hotmail.com writes: > urban legands concerning the > history of fashion", How about the one that the stock market goes up as hemlines go up? This actually had a basis in one very small statement of fact, which I can't dredge up out of the mists of the past, but got to be applied generally. Ann Wass --part1_147.5fbbcc.2adc18e9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/2002 7:24:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lady_adele@hotmail.com writes:


urban legands concerning the
history of fashion",


How about the one that the stock market goes up as hemlines go up?  This actually had a basis in one very small statement of fact, which I can't dredge up out of the mists of the past, but got to be applied generally.
Ann Wass --part1_147.5fbbcc.2adc18e9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 09:16:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09208 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:16:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EDG23Y004316; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EDG1cr021050; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9EDFIcr020887 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 45800 invoked by uid 0); 14 Oct 2002 13:15:18 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 14 Oct 2002 13:15:18 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021014091113.V43189-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > Iron renaissance corsets - I have only ever seen one picture of one and it > looks to me to be a touture device and not some thing that would have been > worn for fashion. These items are a quandary. They do exist--a couple of them--dated to the 16th/17th century, but they are really wierd and no-one truly knows what they were used for. People have suggested masque costume, dress dummies, orthopaedic devices, mannequins, forms for making leather corsets...who knows. I haven't seen any contemporary written reference to them. If anyone has, I'd love to hear about it. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 09:23:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09237 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:23:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EDN33Y004614; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EDN1cr022680; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EDM4cr022439 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07330 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:26:48 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion In-Reply-To: <20021014091113.V43189-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:26:48 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > These items are a quandary. They do exist--a couple of them--dated to > the 16th/17th century, but they are really wierd and no-one truly > knows what they were used for. People have suggested masque costume, > dress dummies, orthopaedic devices, mannequins, forms for making > leather corsets...who knows. Someone on this list suggested they were shop signs -- another equally attractive possibility. That was a good thread... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 09:34:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09270 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:34:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EDX23Y005133; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EDX1cr025154; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EDW2cr024878 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m10.in-tch.com [216.166.191.10]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9EDGsb22406 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAAC8D0.971DFD9@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online References: <20021012234058.87640.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:38:24 -0600 Status: RO Hey, lovely outfit! The competition sounds like a fun one, too! Gives me ideas for something similar in my sca area! --sue Bella wrote: > > Greetings to the list, > > I finished my latest project by the October 1st deadline I had, > although it's taken me a while to get the photos taken and processed. > But they're finally done. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 11:36:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09874 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:36:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EFZE3Y014196; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EFZ3vr012396; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EFYUvr012087 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:34:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip158.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.158]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g9EFYN409019 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:34:24 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] urban legands concerning the history of fashion Message-ID: <3DAA8155.28292.324F7857@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:33:25 -0700 Status: RO > Other things I have read about are: Iron renaissance corsets > - I have only ever seen one picture of one and it looks to me to be a > touture device and not some thing that would have been worn for > fashion. Lots of theories about this one, but it could have been an orthopedic device for controlling scoliosis. Unfortunately, some people *still* require devices which look more tortuous than that for controlling scoliosis. Most of them are teenage girls too. > Victorian women had ribs removed to gain smaller waists - > Impossible, I say. They didn't have the medical knowledge back then. Not impossible and they did have enough medical knowledge to do it. It was done at least once, for an actress, who definitely survived. Actually, removing ribs is not as complicated as it sounds. If done properly you never enter the abdominal or chest cavity, which greatly reduces the chances of infection and other complications. It is more on a par with removing surface tumors, which was being done successfully even in the 15th and 16th C. As to surgery, the Victorians were actually doing a lot of it. It's why they wanted to study anatomy so much (to the point where people really did steal bodies for the medical schools.) They didn't have anasthesia as wonderful and safe as ours, but they still did it. (Keep in mind that Nitrous oxide came along in the 18th C and was used as anaesthesia. Chloroform came along for anaesthesia somewhere in the mid19thC.) Some operations were successful, others weren't. However, they were even doing successful (ie the patient lived for many years after the surgery) abdominal operations such as removal of ovarian tumors even at the beginning of the 19th C. (Surgery advances were more common in the US of the time than the rest of Europe.) (There are plenty of books about the history of medicine which well document this sort of thing.) Often times what starts our as a single person doing something becomes blown into "common practice". Other times modern people think something is so impossible that it seems titilating to retell it over and over again. Kat Russell (MD) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 12:13:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10091 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:13:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EGC43Y017378; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EGC0vr001708; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EGBTvr001426 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:11:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-65.56.128.209.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([65.56.128.209] helo=earthlink.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1817oV-0003Kb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:11:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3DAAEB1E.BA913AA8@earthlink.net> From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] urban legands concerning the history of fashion References: <3DAA8155.28292.324F7857@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:04:46 -0500 Status: RO Could removing the floating ribs in the 19th century be comparable to (as an example that I saw on a talk show a few years ago) someone using numerous plastic surgeries to make them look like Barbie. Onaree kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Victorian women had ribs removed to gain smaller waists - > > Impossible, I say. They didn't have the medical knowledge back then. > > Not impossible and they did have enough medical knowledge to do it. > It was done at least once, for an actress, who definitely survived. > > Actually, removing ribs is not as complicated as it sounds. If done > properly you never enter the abdominal or chest cavity, which greatly > reduces the chances of infection and other complications. It is more > on a par with removing surface tumors, which was being done > successfully even in the 15th and 16th C. > > As to surgery, the Victorians were actually doing a lot of it. It's > why they wanted to study anatomy so much (to the point where people > really did steal bodies for the medical schools.) They didn't have > anasthesia as wonderful and safe as ours, but they still did it. > (Keep in mind that Nitrous oxide came along in the 18th C and was > used as anaesthesia. Chloroform came along for anaesthesia somewhere > in the mid19thC.) > > Some operations were successful, others weren't. However, they were > even doing successful (ie the patient lived for many years after the > surgery) abdominal operations such as removal of ovarian tumors even > at the beginning of the 19th C. (Surgery advances were more common in > the US of the time than the rest of Europe.) (There are plenty of > books about the history of medicine which well document this sort of > thing.) > > Often times what starts our as a single person doing something > becomes blown into "common practice". Other times modern people think > something is so impossible that it seems titilating to retell it over > and over again. > > Kat Russell (MD) > > -- Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom. -- Latin proverb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 12:37:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10203 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:37:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EGa63Y019278; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EGa2uw013955; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EGZduw013699 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:35:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g9EGZfU03362 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:35:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3DAAF165.F4CF87E0@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] washing suggestions References: <000c01c27343$51dc7280$f66a4ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:31:34 -0400 Status: RO I used some of that stuff for costumes for King & I. I just threw it in the washer on warm and dryer on low. You do HAVE to iron it afterward. Metal band does get a little crumpled but irons out. The fabric gets more wrinkled---it needs the ironing more than the band. When it comes out of the dryer it looks like the fabric shrunk and the band didn't, but ironing makes it all better. Kate Melanie Wilson wrote: > >Would sloshing the whole 12 yards in the bathtub and loosely > folding it to hang over a shower curtain rod work? > > It should help, it might be worth putting some salt in the water to try & > fix thedye a bit better too, but it seems very badly dyed > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 12:49:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10235 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:49:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EGlB3Y020157; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EGl2uw019780; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (mta2-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EGkguw019591 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost ([80.1.14.237]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021014164638.CUIH3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:46:38 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Indian textiles/Washing saris/Re: [h-cost] victorian period From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <696533A4-DF9C-11D6-9AFF-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:43:12 +0000 Status: RO > England imported all manner of textiles from India circa 1620 when the > first Trade Post was established granting the English trade > status,primarily in various types of cottons. > Thru' the 17thC to 19thC it snowballed and became a major money maker > for the East India Co. and later the Crown.The earliest reference I've > found for using Indian textiles (made as something else) to make frocks > from,is 1817/19 - when a number of shawls were converted into rather > lovely garments. > I've never come across a sari that was converted into an extent > Victorian gown.(But the average Indian sari measured 5 yards during the > reign of the Raj.)Only puja sari's and those woven in the Karkhana's of > the Reigning Houses would be longer - an extent gharghra(Indian skirt) > woven in the mid to late 19thC in Bharatpur for the ruling Singh family > was 106 yards long but proved too heavy to wear and eventualy divided > in two. > > Certainly Indian silks woven for the export market,tarlatans,mul mul > and a slew of varieties of muslins and cottons were/would have been > used to combat the climate for the Europeans living there and exported > to the rest of the world. > The problem would be that after the Indian Mutiny of 1857 Indian sari > decorative designs were influenced by Victorian wallpaper motifs,a > fashion that continues to today in various permutations and are sold as > 'Mummy' saris for the older women.While lovely in them selves,I'm not > certain a fashionable Victorian English woman would wear something that > looked/copied current wallpaper fashions,irrespective of how lovely or > exotic.Now that by no means says that there weren't exceptions,but they > would be 'clever' adaptations because of the stigma of 'going native' > vs the type of design on the sari and location.No colonial in India > would dare wear something so obviously derivative. > > (Having worked with sari silks a good bit I can only applaud your > patience!) > Synthrapol is absolutely vital for any washing project!!!Salt is a > waste of your time and effort.I know this from bitter experience that > this List got me thru' by over-dying. > > Wash with baby shampoo in luke warm water in the tub by hand (wear > gloves) and let soak a spell.Add synthrapol.Rinse by soaking several > times,the last with a shower-head,the detachable kind works best.Don't > twist the fabric any more than you have to.I do a quick partial dry in > the drier for 8 minutes,on med. to remove as much excess water as you > possibly can and then you iron it dry.(Ironing is your friend!!!) > Depending on the woven design of the 'gilt' threads forming the butis > and the border,gently tug then straight - work on the front of the > fabric since the pointed tip of the iron will get caught in the threads > on the reverse.The wetter the woven areas are,the more luck you will > have in smoothing them out.Its time consuming,slow going,exhausting and > cannot be rushed or you'll have a mess on your hands.(Wipe the iron > frequently for any residual dye and cover the ironing board with > something that you don't care about.Keep paper towels handy.)By the > time you finish,the sari should still be plenty damp - take a few hours > rest and let it air dry.Go over it if you need to once dry.Do not be > tempted to spray it with water once dry to iron as its likely to 'spot' > and you start from scratch. > Once made up and worn you will have to clean it as above > separately.(For an aged period look,I over dye the modern sari - even > with threads as you'll want to mellow the brashness of the gilt some > and wash six or seven times in the washer after dying.Comes out looking > as if it walked out of the V&A's vaults.)Best of luck and I hope that > this helps you.As for China I can't help.Sorry. > > Marcus/Mangal > > On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 03:56 am, MaryAnn Jones wrote: > >> I made a 1860s dress with the usual underskirt overskirt and bodice >> and used a vintage sari for the overskirt and bodice. the embroidered >> part of the end of the sari just fit the pattern of the overskirt and >> there was plenty left over for a bodice and some of the embroidered >> part for the sleeves. I am assuming that with the connection that >> England had with India that this wasn't a coincidence. >> Did they use saris in their gowns? If they did, when did they start? >> When did brocades from China show up? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 13:08:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10320 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:08:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EH713Y022072; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EH70uw000821; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EH6cuw000582 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:06:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip71.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.71]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g9EH6W419763 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:06:33 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] urban legands concerning the history of fashion Message-ID: <3DAA96E5.9195.32A3B68F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3DAAEB1E.BA913AA8@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:05:25 -0700 Status: RO > Could removing the floating ribs in the 19th century be comparable to > (as an example that I saw on a talk show a few years ago) someone > using numerous plastic surgeries to make them look like Barbie. Probably about that common. It happened but was not widespread. Imagine years from now the poor quality costume book saying "surgeries to make oneself look like the Barbie doll were frequently done so that women can have that fashionable look which was so prized in that time." But the sad thing is we *do* have people doing things to their bodies (anorexia and bulemia, as well as the people who go overboard with plastic surgery) now. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 13:36:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10476 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:36:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EHZ63Y024669; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:35:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EHZ4uw016108; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmsoutbound.mx.net (cmsrelay05.mx.net [165.212.11.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9EHYKuw015754 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200210141734.g9EHYKuw015754@net.indra.com> Received: from uadvg143.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.143) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2002 17:34:20 -0000 Received: from gw.smtp.postoffice.net [165.212.8.26] by uadvg143.cms.usa.net via mtad (CM.0402.2.02C) with ESMTP id 533gJNRIs0968M43; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:34:18 GMT Received: from 206.163.135.19 [206.163.135.19] by cmsweb10.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.0402.4.07); Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:34:17 -0000 From: Shea Young To: X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.4.07) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9EHYKuw015754 Subject: [h-cost] Book - Women who ruled Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:34:17 -0700 Status: RO Greetings list, This book came through today: Women who ruled,edited by Annette Dixon, The University of Michigan Museum of Art, ISBN: 1858941660 On the cover is the clearest reproduction I have ever seen of the 1545 painting of Eleanora of Toledo. Inside, the painting shows what appears to a fringe of pearls at the end of her belt. Another fabulous picture of Maria Maddalena of Austria is offered, along with several woodcuts. It would be a good one to check out at the library! Yours truly in technical processing land, Shea Young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 14:56:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10790 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:56:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EItA3Y002108; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EIt2uw029271; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from light.lightwavesgraphics.com (light.lightwavesgraphics.com [66.70.248.191]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9CE6SZa009700 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:06:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dell (bdsl.66.12.117.162.gte.net [66.12.117.162]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by light.lightwavesgraphics.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9CE6K819446; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:06:20 -0400 From: "ATOC" To: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [h-cost] RE: [MR] new book on Greenland textiles!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:06:59 -0400 Status: RO In my book on folkwear it states seams were covered with magical symbols to protect the wearer. It was a weak place, hence most garments were one piece. Soffya http://www.aeonline.biz/Links.htm -----Original Message----- From: atlantia-admin@atlantia.sca.org [mailto:atlantia-admin@atlantia.sca.org]On Behalf Of SNSpies@aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 11:36 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com; h-needlework@ansteorra.org; atlantia@atlantia.sca.org; Norsefolk@yahoogroups.com; sca-arts@listsvr.pca.net; sca-garb@list.uvm.edu; SCA-Laurels@ansteorra.org; SCAWeaving@yahoogroups.com; ekaterina@adelphia.net; barysears@msn.com; gonnella@stsci.edu; Noramunro@aol.com; charles_jones@cap-police.senate.gov; Weaver8002@aol.com; loisrey@erols.com; JulianaCardoso1@aol.com; telsing@hotmail.com; ladyro@annapolis.net; lollyr@erols.com; tressena2000@yahoo.com; SuTillery@comcast.net; rico_ratso@yahoo.com; mbrunzie@yahoo.com Subject: [MR] new book on Greenland textiles!! -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I have just heard from Else Oestergaard that she has a new book coming out soon on the Norse textiles from Greenland. Titled "Woven Into the Past: Textile Finds from Norse Greenland", the Danish version will be out sometime after Christmas with the English version appearing later. To further whet your appetite, Karen Finch just told me that Else has made "a particular study of the seams, including why they are different in different places. Pre-sewing machine seams each serves a different purpose." I will let you know more information as I receive it. Ingvild Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL (Nancy Spies) Barony of Bright Hills Kingdom of Atlantia www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html ======================================================================== The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/ Submissions: Atlantia@atlantia.sca.org Subscriptions: http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/atlantia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 14:58:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10797 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:58:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EIte3Y002165; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EItcuw029602; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E7eJcr022841 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 01:40:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.252]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3Y0030LNZ6GQ@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:40:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: (Recipient list suppressed) Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021014003501.00c90380@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] historical costume-funny Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:40:14 -0700 Status: RO My younger daughter and I were helping out with Ardenwood's Harvest Festival today. We went across the street to Jack-In-The-Box for lunch, still wearing our floral-calico farm-women Victorians (Ardenwood does the 1890s). While we were there, a teenager, old enough to drive, asked us if we were from Renaissance Fair. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 15:16:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10871 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:16:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJE23Y004100; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJE0uw009502; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJDSuw009084 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.110]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g9EJCs7A020042; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:12:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021014121739.007d9580@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, "h-costume" From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: <001301c27270$bb428e40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: [h-cost] [h-cost]Help with Measurements, PLEASE! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:17:39 -0700 Status: RO I'm finishing the final drafts on my men's Elizabethan patterns, and I need help. Modern standardized measurement charts do not include the thigh and knee circumferences which I need. I've made an educated guess based on measuring the men in my life, but I'd like to check against a larger sampling. So, could I ask those of you on the list who are, or have handy, men of any size, to send me their measurements? What I need is the measurement around the leg at the base of the knee cap, the measurement around the leg at the midpoint between knee and crotch, and the natural waistline measurement. Please send these to me at margo@margospatterns.com with the subject "men's measurements". Thanks so much! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 15:34:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10954 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:34:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJXB3Y005938; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:33:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJX1uw019618; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay.frontiernet.net [66.133.130.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJWmuw019445 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 18761 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2002 19:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.243.155]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 14 Oct 2002 19:32:42 -0000 Message-ID: <006601c273b8$755cfc00$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: <20021014120711.75429.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK online trim store? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:32:39 -0400 Status: RO They are not in the UK that I know of, but TL Barnes has recently come online. I'd give the addy- but it's on another identity on the 'puter (sometimes I feel like Sybil. . . ) Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: [h-cost] UK online trim store? > Does anybody know of a UK shop that is online and sells trims and such lovely > things? I don't have any nice glittery things for my normal clothing *pout* I > love the Calontir Trim site but I can't shop there, they don't even accept > electronic payment. > > Cheers for any info, can also be non-online > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs > Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: marquis@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 15:48:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11034 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:48:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJl63Y007216; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJl1uw026860; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f272.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.150]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJkuuw026803 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:46:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:46:50 -0700 Received: from 204.126.166.199 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:46:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [204.126.166.199] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK online trim store? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 19:46:50.0988 (UTC) FILETIME=[709772C0:01C273BA] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:46:50 -0700 Status: RO Oddly enough, it's www.tlbarnes.com That's Lady Justina Marie of Burgundy, to those of you who may know Tammy Barnes under her SCA name. Great stuff and very good prices. Yes, she happens to be a personal friend of mine, but I'm also a satisfied customer (and beneficiary at gift-giving times!) MaggiRos >From: "Lyn Greaves- home" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK online trim store? >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:32:39 -0400 > >They are not in the UK that I know of, but TL Barnes has recently come >online. > >I'd give the addy- but it's on another identity on the 'puter (sometimes I >feel like Sybil. . . ) > > >Lyn Greaves >Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton >COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 15:49:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11039 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:49:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJm23Y007321; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJm1uw027433; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJlFuw026990 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.106]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H3Z0060CLMPNW@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:47:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021014123321.04c0cb70@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:39:16 -0700 Status: RO >I'm looking for urban legands concerning the history of fashion. In the early 1960s I heard one about a female who ratted her hair and didn't comb it out again till after vermin took up residence. Later I heard that same story except it was about the hairstyles of the 1700s. My pet peve urban-legend is that no woman, anywhere, ever wore underdrawers or underpants till the 1800s. In my family there's a story about my grandfather, born in 1864, who didn't realize his mother had feet till he was about 3. Probably not an urban legend. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 15:50:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11053 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:50:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJn23Y007464; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJn1uw027963; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f162.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJm3uw027388 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:47:57 -0700 Received: from 217.45.36.199 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:47:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [217.45.36.199] From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 19:47:57.0705 (UTC) FILETIME=[985BA790:01C273BA] Subject: [h-cost] Re: trimmings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:47:57 +0100 Status: RO



Hi Nicole,

I'm on digest so please forgive me if someone has already answered your trimmings question. You could try www.kersen.com although their site seems to be down at the moment... also www.creativebeadcraft.co.uk is good for all sorts of sparkly things - it's worth getting hold of the paper catalogue as it has more stuff (I think) than the website. Also, Macculloch and Wallis have a huge selection of fabrics and trims, although not online, and the mail-order catalogue doesn't have many pictures. They are also pretty much always incredibly grumpy, in my limited experience, but they do have some good (if expensive) stuff. Their website is at  www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk

Hope this helps a bit,

Kate

>
>Message: 17
>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:07:11 +0100 (BST)
>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?=
>To: H-Costume
>Subject: [h-cost] UK online trim store?
>Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
>
>Does anybody know of a UK shop that is online and sells trims and such lovely
>things? I don't have any nice glittery things for my normal clothing *pout* I
>love the Calontir Trim site but I can't shop there, they don't even accept
>electronic payment.
>
>Cheers for any info, can also be non-online
>
>Nicole
>
>=====
>Nicole Kipar M.A.
>L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
>Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/
>Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
>__________________________________________________

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 15:51:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11067 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:51:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJo13Y007542; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJo0uw028526; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJnfuw028302 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:49:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g9EJn48F061508 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200210141949.g9EJn48F061508@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: trimmings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Kate Cole" at Oct 14, 2002 08:47:57 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO please turn off your HTML email! just send out text, thanks. > >
>



Hi Nicole,
>

I'm on digest so please forgive me if someone has already answered your trimmings question. You could try www.kersen.com although their site seems to be down at the moment... also www.creativebeadcraft.co.uk is good for all sorts of sparkly things - it's worth getting hold of the paper catalogue as it has more stuff (I think) than the website. Also, Macculloch and Wallis have a huge selection of fabrics and trims, although not online, and the mail-order catalogue doesn't have many pictures. They are also pretty much always incredibly grumpy, in my limited experience, but they do have some good (if expensive) stuff. Their website is at  www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk

>

Hope this helps a bit,

>

Kate

>
>
>
>
> >
>Message: 17 >
>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:07:11 +0100 (BST) >
>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= >
>To: H-Costume >
>Subject: [h-cost] UK online trim store? >
>Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com >
> >
>Does anybody know of a UK shop that is online and sells trims and such lovely >
>things? I don't have any nice glittery things for my normal clothing *pout* I >
>love the Calontir Trim site but I can't shop there, they don't even accept >
>electronic payment. >
> >
>Cheers for any info, can also be non-online >
> >
>Nicole >
> >
>===== >
>Nicole Kipar M.A. >
>L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs >
>Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 >
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >
>Email: marquis@kipar.org >
> >
>__________________________________________________ >
>

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here
> _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 15:56:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11086 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:56:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJp13Y007637; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJp0uw029194; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f224.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EJoEuw028618 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:50:06 -0700 Received: from 217.45.36.199 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:50:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [217.45.36.199] From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 19:50:07.0007 (UTC) FILETIME=[E56D92F0:01C273BA] Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1370 - 19 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:50:06 +0100 Status: RO
I'm sure EVERYONE but me must already know this, but could someone possibly tell me what these books on surviving clothes from Queen Victoria's family are called? They sound VERY interesting.....
 
Many thanks,
 
Kate
 
 
 
>
>I have seen one Victorian dress that appears to have been made of saree
>material. It's in one of those two books about surviving clothing from
>Queen Victoria's family. As I can't lay my hands on it at the moment, all
>I can remember is that the dress was blue with silver or gold embroidery,
>and it had a bustle, so it must have been 1870s or 1880s.
>
>
>Kayta
>
> //// \\\
> ////-@@\\\
> (((( 7 )))
> ((( <> ))))
> ) ((((((
>/----\ /---\))
>
>
>--__--__--
>

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 16:03:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11120 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:03:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EK223Y008775; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EK21uw005487; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f87.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EK10uw004972 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:00:55 -0700 Received: from 217.45.36.199 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:00:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [217.45.36.199] From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 20:00:55.0511 (UTC) FILETIME=[67F76E70:01C273BC] Subject: [h-cost] Re: urban costume legends Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:00:55 +0100 Status: RO

Again, please forgive me if these comments have already been made. There are some iron 16th-century corsets in Corsets and Crinolines - Norah Waugh says they are "probably of foreign origin [ie not French or English] or designed for difficult or deformed figures".

I wouldn't have thought it's that unlikely to have had 15-20" waists in the mid-18th C - plenty of extant garments from the early 1800s have 20" waists or thereabouts, without the tightly laced undergarments of the later 1800s. Boned 18th century stays presumably still had some reducing effects. And people were a lot smaller then, in all directions! 

I'm not sure about rib removal, but what is true is that girls were put into corsets at a very young age, when their bones were still soft, so as they grew the bones grew into a different position to that which our un-restricted bones take up nowadays, making the all-important tiny waist much easier to achieve than it would be today.

Kate

 

 

>
>Message: 13
>From: "Rebecca Anderson"
>To: h-costume@net.indra.com
>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:53:53 +0930
>Subject: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion
>Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
>
>
>
>Hello
>I'm looking for urban legands concerning the history of fashion.
>I have found lots of information (on the net and in books) that I doubt to
>be true. most of these sources are aimed at womens studies students (high
>school) and so now I wandering just what these girls are learning.
>Recently on the list was that oddity of victorian nipple piercing.
>Other things I have read about are:
>Iron renaissance corsets - I have only ever seen one picture of one and it
>looks to me to be a touture device and not some thing that would have been
>worn for fashion.
>15"-20" waists in mid 1800's - It is my understanding that it wasn't until
>the late 1800's that waists got that small. In the earlier times small
>waists were an illusion caused by "big" skirts, "big" sleeves (causing
>visual width at the shoulders) and pointed bodices.
>Victorian women had ribs removed to gain smaller waists - Impossible, I say.
>They didn't have the medical knowledge back then.
>In the 1700's women wore corsets to make their waists smaller - From what I
>can tell it is the wide skirts and pointed bodices that create an illusion
>of a small waist. Corsets of this period are still very much "V" shaped and
>therefore designed to smooth and lift.
>
>Please correct me if my understanding is wrong.
>Does any one else know of any more of these "urban legands concerning the
>history of fashion", I'm beggining to find some of them rather ammusing.
>Rebecca
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>

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_______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 16:25:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11311 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EKO63Y010797; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EKO2uw017594; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EKNLuw017236 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:23:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id NAA28513 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200210142044.NAA28513@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] urban legands concerning the history of fashion Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: [...] > > Victorian women had ribs removed to gain smaller waists - > > Impossible, I say. They didn't have the medical knowledge back then. > > Not impossible and they did have enough medical knowledge to do it. > It was done at least once, for an actress, who definitely survived. Citation? I've heard this _said_ before, but never actually been given an actress' name or date. Lily Langtry did _not_ have ribs removed, by the way (most common suspect). > Actually, removing ribs is not as complicated as it sounds. If done > properly you never enter the abdominal or chest cavity, which greatly > reduces the chances of infection and other complications. It is more > on a par with removing surface tumors, which was being done > successfully even in the 15th and 16th C. Again, citation? Most of the medical texts I've seen refute this claim. Or rather, refute that it was done _easily_. > As to surgery, the Victorians were actually doing a lot of it. It's > why they wanted to study anatomy so much (to the point where people > really did steal bodies for the medical schools.) They didn't have > anasthesia as wonderful and safe as ours, but they still did it. > (Keep in mind that Nitrous oxide came along in the 18th C and was > used as anaesthesia. Chloroform came along for anaesthesia somewhere > in the mid19thC.) The first operations to be done with anesthetic were _after_ the Civil War. Which really does put a much later limit on this type of procedure. Plus, "hospital fever" was common enough that I have a hard time believing that rib removal was done for vanity reasons. I'm going to also point out that a lot of the tracts on the medical dangers of tightlacing make it _sound_ as though the practices of tightlacing and rib removal were much more common than the actual physical and photographic evidence would suggest. There's a particular type of tract that was was sometimes labeled "A la mode, A la mort" that greatly exaggerated both the dangers and prevailance of both tightlacing and rib removal. > Some operations were successful, others weren't. However, they were > even doing successful (ie the patient lived for many years after the > surgery) abdominal operations such as removal of ovarian tumors even > at the beginning of the 19th C. (Surgery advances were more common in > the US of the time than the rest of Europe.) (There are plenty of > books about the history of medicine which well document this sort of > thing.) And it certainly depends on _which_ text about the history of medicine you read as to what you'll find. Which is why I'm asking for citations. Some of the older texts have since been refuted by later ones. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 16:52:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11535 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:52:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EKo23Y013068; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EKo1vA001754; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f68.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.68]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EKn0vA001202 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:48:55 -0700 Received: from 65.65.96.116 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:48:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.65.96.116] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] coloured linen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 20:48:55.0722 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CB4C0A0:01C273C3] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:48:55 +0000 Status: RO This was/is a common practice in Japan - make the garment up, then dye it afterward. Can't think of the term for it off the top of my head, but I can get it if anyone's interested. Mary/Katerine (who has dabbled in Japanese clothing, but not in the dying aspects!) Mike T. BTW, is >there historical evidence of dyeing completed garments, made from imported >fabrics that come in only white? > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 17:11:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11704 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:11:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ELA13Y014764; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ELA0vA012231; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f164.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EL9AvA011731 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:09:05 -0700 Received: from 65.65.96.116 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:09:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.65.96.116] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 21:09:05.0288 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDA9E080:01C273C5] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:09:05 +0000 Status: RO Bella - Out of curiosity, where did you aquire the pattern? I've been whimpering over that style of bodice/doublet for a while, but drafting a pattern is something I find I still do faster when supervised! Mary/Katerine >Thank you so much! :) I couldn't have done it without >a great pattern - my skills aren't up to drafting >doublet-style bodices yet. :) > > >Bella > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 18:07:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11966 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:07:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EM643Y019207; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EM60vA011860; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.139]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EM5qvA011789 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-35-54-129.asm.bellsouth.net ([67.35.54.129] helo=AlphaB) by puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 181DLS-0004V2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:05:51 -0700 From: "Ann Neff" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion Message-ID: <001b01c273cd$d9286bb0$5f67fea9@AlphaB> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021014123321.04c0cb70@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-ELNK-Trace: f7b9cab3f8e9b60ad4c20f6b8d69d8883a7389d0ab8f000891f789b61173768422606dc904588756350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:05:22 -0400 Status: RO In the early 1970's when I was in summer stock, my hair had been done up on the top of my head in tiny braids around wire cores, which were shaped around a roll of toilet paper for a sort of overall torus/doughnut shape - a piece of black velvet ribbon covered the ends of the wire where it all came together. It took hours to put up, so I left it up as long as possible. When I woke up one morning, and poked at the ribbon to move it all back into place, what I had thought was the ribbon walked off my head. A spider had been in my hair. The hair came down immediately, and stayed in a plain knot from then on. Gotta say, that summer stock was an armpit of a place! Ann, in Georgia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 3:39 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion >I'm looking for urban legands concerning the history of fashion. In the early 1960s I heard one about a female who ratted her hair and didn't comb it out again till after vermin took up residence. Later I heard that same story except it was about the hairstyles of the 1700s. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 18:09:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11982 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:09:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EM713Y019274; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EM71vA012289; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f42.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EM66vA011861 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:06:00 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:06:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 22:06:00.0829 (UTC) FILETIME=[E17C12D0:01C273CD] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:06:00 -0700 Status: RO We went across the street to Jack-In-The-Box for >lunch, still wearing our floral-calico farm-women Victorians (Ardenwood >does the 1890s). While we were there, a teenager, old enough to drive, >asked us if we were from Renaissance Fair. > >Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > At least she didn't ask if you were in a play!!! ;) Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 18:58:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12178 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:58:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EMv23Y023225; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9EMv0vA006525; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20210.mail.yahoo.com (web20210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9EMuXvA006264 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:56:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021014225633.86074.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:56:33 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021014115855.87671.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:56:33 +1000 (EST) Status: RO Thanks Nicole. :) Bella --- N Kipar wrote: > Gorgeous Bella, absolutely gorgeous! > > Nicole > > > A-hem.... :) > > > > You can find the page here: > > > > > http://members.tripod.com/realm_of_venus/mygarb/index.htm > > > > > > Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 19:12:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12236 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENB23Y024462; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENB1vA013553; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9ENAPvA013320 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:10:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021014231024.92544.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:10:24 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DAAC8D0.971DFD9@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:10:24 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Hey, lovely outfit! The competition sounds like a > fun one, too! Gives me > ideas for something similar in my sca area! > --sue Thanks Sue. :) It was definitely fun, as well as challenging. Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 19:17:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12264 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:17:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENH23Y024930; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENH1vA015983; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENG3vA015690 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021014231558.ENJE24958.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:15:58 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014160201.009fe340@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021014123321.04c0cb70@mail.frys.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:07:07 -0700 Status: RO not to be disgusting you all, but I got a flea infestation in my hair several years ago. I think it was because the cat slept on my pillow. I washed it a couple times a week and wore it in a braid. when it started itching I thought it was lice and used the shampoo and washed it a gazzillion times and finally had to usse a really strong pesticide on it. considering that women didn't wash their hair that often before the twentieth century, I think that it is likelier than not that they did have infestationss. the back of my head itches just thinking about it. maryann At 12:39 PM 10/14/2002 -0700, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>I'm looking for urban legands concerning the history of fashion. > >In the early 1960s I heard one about a female who ratted her hair and >didn't comb it out again till after vermin took up residence. Later I >heard that same story except it was about the hairstyles of the 1700s. > >My pet peve urban-legend is that no woman, anywhere, ever wore >underdrawers or underpants till the 1800s. > >In my family there's a story about my grandfather, born in 1864, who >didn't realize his mother had feet till he was about 3. Probably not an >urban legend. > >Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 19:22:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12285 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:22:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENL13Y025195; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENL0vA017665; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENKOvA017411 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:20:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021014232018.DWMA24595.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com> for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:20:18 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014161103.009f4680@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: Indian textiles/Washing saris/Re: [h-cost] victorian period In-Reply-To: <696533A4-DF9C-11D6-9AFF-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:11:28 -0700 Status: RO thanks a lot for the info maryann At 05:43 PM 10/14/2002 +0000, you wrote: >>England imported all manner of textiles from India circa 1620 when the >>first Trade Post was established granting the English trade >>status,primarily in various types of cottons. >>Thru' the 17thC to 19thC it snowballed and became a major money maker for >>the East India Co. and later the Crown.The earliest reference I've found >>for using Indian textiles (made as something else) to make frocks from,is >>1817/19 - when a number of shawls were converted into rather lovely garments. >>I've never come across a sari that was converted into an extent Victorian >>gown.(But the average Indian sari measured 5 yards during the reign of >>the Raj.)Only puja sari's and those woven in the Karkhana's of the >>Reigning Houses would be longer - an extent gharghra(Indian skirt) woven >>in the mid to late 19thC in Bharatpur for the ruling Singh family was 106 >>yards long but proved too heavy to wear and eventualy divided in two. >> >>Certainly Indian silks woven for the export market,tarlatans,mul mul and >>a slew of varieties of muslins and cottons were/would have been used to >>combat the climate for the Europeans living there and exported to the >>rest of the world. >>The problem would be that after the Indian Mutiny of 1857 Indian sari >>decorative designs were influenced by Victorian wallpaper motifs,a >>fashion that continues to today in various permutations and are sold as >>'Mummy' saris for the older women.While lovely in them selves,I'm not >>certain a fashionable Victorian English woman would wear something that >>looked/copied current wallpaper fashions,irrespective of how lovely or >>exotic.Now that by no means says that there weren't exceptions,but they >>would be 'clever' adaptations because of the stigma of 'going native' vs >>the type of design on the sari and location.No colonial in India would >>dare wear something so obviously derivative. >> >>(Having worked with sari silks a good bit I can only applaud your patience!) >>Synthrapol is absolutely vital for any washing project!!!Salt is a waste >>of your time and effort.I know this from bitter experience that this List >>got me thru' by over-dying. >> >>Wash with baby shampoo in luke warm water in the tub by hand (wear >>gloves) and let soak a spell.Add synthrapol.Rinse by soaking several >>times,the last with a shower-head,the detachable kind works best.Don't >>twist the fabric any more than you have to.I do a quick partial dry in >>the drier for 8 minutes,on med. to remove as much excess water as you >>possibly can and then you iron it dry.(Ironing is your friend!!!) >>Depending on the woven design of the 'gilt' threads forming the butis and >>the border,gently tug then straight - work on the front of the fabric >>since the pointed tip of the iron will get caught in the threads on the >>reverse.The wetter the woven areas are,the more luck you will have in >>smoothing them out.Its time consuming,slow going,exhausting and cannot be >>rushed or you'll have a mess on your hands.(Wipe the iron frequently for >>any residual dye and cover the ironing board with something that you >>don't care about.Keep paper towels handy.)By the time you finish,the sari >>should still be plenty damp - take a few hours rest and let it air dry.Go >>over it if you need to once dry.Do not be tempted to spray it with water >>once dry to iron as its likely to 'spot' and you start from scratch. >>Once made up and worn you will have to clean it as above separately.(For >>an aged period look,I over dye the modern sari - even with threads as >>you'll want to mellow the brashness of the gilt some and wash six or >>seven times in the washer after dying.Comes out looking as if it walked >>out of the V&A's vaults.)Best of luck and I hope that this helps you.As >>for China I can't help.Sorry. >> >>Marcus/Mangal >> >>On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 03:56 am, MaryAnn Jones wrote: >> >>>I made a 1860s dress with the usual underskirt overskirt and bodice and >>>used a vintage sari for the overskirt and bodice. the embroidered part >>>of the end of the sari just fit the pattern of the overskirt and there >>>was plenty left over for a bodice and some of the embroidered part for >>>the sleeves. I am assuming that with the connection that England had >>>with India that this wasn't a coincidence. >>>Did they use saris in their gowns? If they did, when did they start? >>>When did brocades from China show up? > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 19:26:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12297 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:26:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENQ23Y025872; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENQ1vA020270; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9ENPavA020045 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021014232533.97652.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:25:33 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book - Women who ruled To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200210141734.g9EHYKuw015754@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:25:33 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Shea Young wrote: > Greetings list, > This book came through today: Women who ruled,edited > by Annette Dixon, The > University of Michigan Museum of Art, ISBN: > 1858941660 > > On the cover is the clearest reproduction I have > ever seen of the 1545 > painting of Eleanora of Toledo. Do you mean the one with her son? I've seen that one attributed to circa 1550-55. Or is it an earlier one you're speaking of? > Inside, the painting > shows what appears to a > fringe of pearls at the end of her belt. If it's the portrait I'm thinking of it's a tassel of pearls. Trish at Raveness.com has webbed some great clear close-ups of this portrait, including the pearl tassel: > Another > fabulous picture of Maria > Maddalena of Austria is offered, along with several > woodcuts. > > It would be a good one to check out at the library! It sure would! Thanks for posting about this book - sounds good. :) Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 19:29:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12307 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:29:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENS23Y026156; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ENS1vA021225; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9ENR2vA020705 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021014232701.95155.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:27:01 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:27:01 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Mary Temple wrote: > Bella - > > Out of curiosity, where did you aquire the pattern? > I've been whimpering > over that style of bodice/doublet for a while, but > drafting a pattern is > something I find I still do faster when supervised! It's from Margo's Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe. :) Bella http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 20:42:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12646 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:42:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F0g33Y006108; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F0g1vA024480; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F0fqvA024415 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.147] (pm5-147.eos.net [205.133.149.147]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07747 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:41:50 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021014125700.16573.25039.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:39:54 -0400 Status: RO The main one I hear concerns corsetry, and it's very general -- that 'in the past' girls wore corsets from childhood, and were unable to breathe or move in them. I find this hysterical considering how costume movies are now common, and one can see modern women who obviously have not been corseted all their lives wearing corsets, running around, dancing, riding horses, etc., without any ill effects. I think the image of the "restrictive" corset as a metaphor for restrictive social conditions is just too good for many people to resist, no matter what the facts are. After all, if all women in the past couldn't move in their corsets, its a wonder any of them managed all their back-breaking work. A few years ago on this list someone wrote in to ask if a woman could "really" fence in a corset, the way Catherine Zeta Jones did in the Zorro movie out at the time. I guess the evidence of his/her own eyes wasn't good enough! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 20:52:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12727 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:52:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F0q23Y006680; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F0q1vA027385; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F0pvvA027369 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:51:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10529 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:56:44 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014160201.009fe340@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:56:44 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, MaryAnn Jones wrote: > Considering that women didn't wash their hair that often before the > twentieth century, I think that it is likelier than not that they did > have infestationss. the back of my head itches just thinking about > it. I don't think lice infestation would necessarily have been more common, at least not for that particular reason. (We had this conversation back during the "no-shampoo method" discussion.) Any pediatrician will confirm that lice prefer clean hair. Oilier hair is harder for them to stay on. Many a parent has learned this the hard way. As for fleas: Individual flea species tend to prefer specific hosts -- that is, cat fleas don't normally like people, and people fleas don't normally like cats ... unless their preferred host is not available when they're hungry. People who live in close quarters with animals don't typically pick up the animal fleas, assuming there are plenty of the appropriate kinds of animals around for the fleas to choose from. (In your case, you would most likely have gotten your cat's fleas if there was no cat around when the fleas needed to feed.) But in a part of the world where human fleas are common and people live in close quarters, they'll spread fleas around among themselves. (I'm afraid know much more about fleas than I have any right to know, having written articles about plague.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 21:48:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12976 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:48:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F1l33Y009578; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F1l1vA012665; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F1kHvA012509 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9F1hABX005253 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:43:11 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Archaeological Footwear Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021012142357.00ab1ec0@jagor.srce.hr> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:47:10 -0700 Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jadran Kale Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:25 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Archaeological Footwear >From: "Rainer Atzbach M.A." >Subject: Rezension Stepping Through Time >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:47:03 +0200 >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Olaf Goubitz /Carol van Driel-Murray/Willy Groenman-van Waateringe: Stepping >through Time. Archaeological Footwear from Prehistoric Times until 1800. >Edited by the Stichting Promotie Archeologie, Zwolle 2001. 397 S., ca. 820 >s/w Abb. ISBN 90-801044-6-9. Preis: NL 55 EUR, B+D 60 EUR, GB (Oxbow) 35 £, >übriges Europa 70 EUR, USA (Oxbow/ David Brown) 63 $. >Infobroschüre als kostenloser Download: >http://www.archeologie-spa.nl/pdf/pdf001.zip > >Summary: > >This book unites studies of the retired restorer Olaf Goubitz, the >archaeologist Carol van-Driel Murray and the biologist Willy Groenman-van >Waateringe, who belong to the most important researchers in European >footwear. Olaf Goubitz' part deals with the medieval and postmedieval shoes >in the Netherlands, which could be seen being paradigmatical for the whole >of Europe. Though in some passages his text is lacking structure, it >provides a plenty of information to the calceological history and the way of >recording shoes. Moreover his detailed and clear drawings are worth to be >seen - in archaeology nothing lasts longer than a well drawn reconstruction. >Carol Driel-Murray gives a short overview to the Roman shoes worn in the >former North-West provinces Gallia Belgica and Germania Inferior considering >typology and craftmanship as well. Willy Groenman-van Waateringe completes >the trilogy with a very small essay on Dutch and European prehistoric finds >also regarding their importance as archaeological source material. Although >this compendium is not the expected well structured handbook on European >footwear, everyone who is occupied with historical shoes and shoemaker's >craft should study this book. Rezensiert für H-Museum und Virtual Library Museen von Rainer Atzbach M.A., Lehrstuhl für Archäologie des Mittelalters und der Neuzeit, Universität Bamberg E-mail: rainer.atzbach@ggeo.uni-bamberg.de WWW: www.uni-bamberg.de/~ba5am1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 21:58:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13008 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:58:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F1v23Y010182; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F1v0vA015392; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F1uPvA015208 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:56:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9F1rJBX010273; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:53:19 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: , Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Archaeological Footwear Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021012142357.00ab1ec0@jagor.srce.hr> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:57:18 -0700 Status: RO Great book, I have a copy and got several while in Germany to sell to friends. You can now get a copy from the David Brown portion of Oxbow books http://www.oxbowbooks.com/home.cfm?Location=DBBC&CT=1197843 for $63.00. It is a great addition to any costume book library! Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jadran Kale Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:25 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Archaeological Footwear >From: "Rainer Atzbach M.A." >Subject: Rezension Stepping Through Time >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:47:03 +0200 >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Olaf Goubitz /Carol van Driel-Murray/Willy Groenman-van Waateringe: Stepping >through Time. Archaeological Footwear from Prehistoric Times until 1800. >Edited by the Stichting Promotie Archeologie, Zwolle 2001. 397 S., ca. 820 >s/w Abb. ISBN 90-801044-6-9. Preis: NL 55 EUR, B+D 60 EUR, GB (Oxbow) 35 £, >übriges Europa 70 EUR, USA (Oxbow/ David Brown) 63 $. >Infobroschüre als kostenloser Download: >http://www.archeologie-spa.nl/pdf/pdf001.zip > >Summary: > >This book unites studies of the retired restorer Olaf Goubitz, the >archaeologist Carol van-Driel Murray and the biologist Willy Groenman-van >Waateringe, who belong to the most important researchers in European >footwear. Olaf Goubitz' part deals with the medieval and postmedieval shoes >in the Netherlands, which could be seen being paradigmatical for the whole >of Europe. Though in some passages his text is lacking structure, it >provides a plenty of information to the calceological history and the way of >recording shoes. Moreover his detailed and clear drawings are worth to be >seen - in archaeology nothing lasts longer than a well drawn reconstruction. >Carol Driel-Murray gives a short overview to the Roman shoes worn in the >former North-West provinces Gallia Belgica and Germania Inferior considering >typology and craftmanship as well. Willy Groenman-van Waateringe completes >the trilogy with a very small essay on Dutch and European prehistoric finds >also regarding their importance as archaeological source material. Although >this compendium is not the expected well structured handbook on European >footwear, everyone who is occupied with historical shoes and shoemaker's >craft should study this book. Rezensiert für H-Museum und Virtual Library Museen von Rainer Atzbach M.A., Lehrstuhl für Archäologie des Mittelalters und der Neuzeit, Universität Bamberg E-mail: rainer.atzbach@ggeo.uni-bamberg.de WWW: www.uni-bamberg.de/~ba5am1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 22:01:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13028 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:01:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F20a3Y010422; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F20avA016568; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F1uQvA015215 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9F1rJBX010273; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:53:19 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: , Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Archaeological Footwear Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021012142357.00ab1ec0@jagor.srce.hr> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:57:18 -0700 Status: RO Great book, I have a copy and got several while in Germany to sell to friends. You can now get a copy from the David Brown portion of Oxbow books http://www.oxbowbooks.com/home.cfm?Location=DBBC&CT=1197843 for $63.00. It is a great addition to any costume book library! Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jadran Kale Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:25 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Archaeological Footwear >From: "Rainer Atzbach M.A." >Subject: Rezension Stepping Through Time >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:47:03 +0200 >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Olaf Goubitz /Carol van Driel-Murray/Willy Groenman-van Waateringe: Stepping >through Time. Archaeological Footwear from Prehistoric Times until 1800. >Edited by the Stichting Promotie Archeologie, Zwolle 2001. 397 S., ca. 820 >s/w Abb. ISBN 90-801044-6-9. Preis: NL 55 EUR, B+D 60 EUR, GB (Oxbow) 35 £, >übriges Europa 70 EUR, USA (Oxbow/ David Brown) 63 $. >Infobroschüre als kostenloser Download: >http://www.archeologie-spa.nl/pdf/pdf001.zip > >Summary: > >This book unites studies of the retired restorer Olaf Goubitz, the >archaeologist Carol van-Driel Murray and the biologist Willy Groenman-van >Waateringe, who belong to the most important researchers in European >footwear. Olaf Goubitz' part deals with the medieval and postmedieval shoes >in the Netherlands, which could be seen being paradigmatical for the whole >of Europe. Though in some passages his text is lacking structure, it >provides a plenty of information to the calceological history and the way of >recording shoes. Moreover his detailed and clear drawings are worth to be >seen - in archaeology nothing lasts longer than a well drawn reconstruction. >Carol Driel-Murray gives a short overview to the Roman shoes worn in the >former North-West provinces Gallia Belgica and Germania Inferior considering >typology and craftmanship as well. Willy Groenman-van Waateringe completes >the trilogy with a very small essay on Dutch and European prehistoric finds >also regarding their importance as archaeological source material. Although >this compendium is not the expected well structured handbook on European >footwear, everyone who is occupied with historical shoes and shoemaker's >craft should study this book. Rezensiert für H-Museum und Virtual Library Museen von Rainer Atzbach M.A., Lehrstuhl für Archäologie des Mittelalters und der Neuzeit, Universität Bamberg E-mail: rainer.atzbach@ggeo.uni-bamberg.de WWW: www.uni-bamberg.de/~ba5am1 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 14 22:10:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13060 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:10:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F2923Y010996; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F291vA019141; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9F28evA019021 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpZUuROXTbdV8brb2eE5n0w="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HE5KYJDH; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:07:51 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion Message-ID: <20021014.190638.-113583.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-8,10-11 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:46:51 +0000 Status: RO Ick! Is Advantage safe for people? Folks not familiar with the name--it's flea goop. You squeeze a little tube of it onto the nape of the neck and the rear of your pet. Works for a month. Terrific product. Your pet may drag a flea or two in from the wilds, but they won't last long. Arlys On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:07:07 -0700 MaryAnn Jones writes: > not to be disgusting you all, but I got a flea infestation in my hair > several years ago. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 00:12:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13514 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:12:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4C33Y017032; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4C0vA023228; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4B3vA023030 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p3-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.3] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 181J2s-0000ox-00; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:11:02 +1300 Message-ID: <009101c27400$dc3ccf70$03cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <200210142044.NAA28513@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] urban legands concerning the history of fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:10:54 +1300 Status: RO > > Not impossible and they did have enough medical knowledge to do it. > > It was done at least once, for an actress, who definitely survived. > > Citation? I've heard this _said_ before, but never actually been given an > actress' name or date. Lily Langtry did _not_ have ribs > removed, by the way (most common suspect). Or Sarah Bernhardt who didn't actually have her ribs removed, but she did have her leg removed, though much later in her life. I want to know this supposed actresses name as each time I've heard this no one can name her:) Studied the lives of both actresses at one stage or another:) There certainly were burleque actresses who had *tiny* waists, but no smaller than people are acheiving now *without* ribs removed. 13-18" while still not being common are acheived. And I don't deny it happened in earlier years. Just not by every fashionable figure and certainly not most women. michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 00:22:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13529 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4L33Y017411; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4L2vA025511; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4KvvA025477 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p3-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.3] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 181JCQ-0000Nj-00; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:20:55 +1300 Message-ID: <009201c27402$3fc9edb0$03cdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021014091113.V43189-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:20:51 +1300 Status: RO > > Iron renaissance corsets - I have only ever seen one picture of one and it > > looks to me to be a touture device and not some thing that would have been > > worn for fashion. > These items are a quandary. They do exist--a couple of them--dated to the > 16th/17th century, but they are really wierd and no-one truly knows what > they were used for. People have suggested masque costume, dress dummies, > orthopaedic devices, mannequins, forms for making leather corsets...who > knows. I haven't seen any contemporary written reference to them. If > anyone has, I'd love to hear about it. There are at least four I have seen photos of, and one was late 18thC, very odd looking but solid (Bissonette on Fashion site has this), this is where the shop sign theory is written down btw.. maybe others havce suggested it but this is one instance of a museum saying it. Two appear in Corsets and Crinolines, and these will be the two Drea refers too(?) I feel that these are genuine... but their purpose? There are highly decorative, especially compared to that solid thing from the 18th C. The fourth is online... I shall hunt for my links.. as I asked about this maybe this time or earlier last year. It's like a mesh with a sweet heart neckline long body narrow waist and solid basque. There *is* evidence for the orthopaedic theory, and Valerie Steele exacmines it in her latest book... again I have a link to that to find... But it's certainly not the *only* reason. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/ae/books/ch1/1153123 excerpts of her book. Including this text: Ambroise Paré (c. 1510-90), a French army surgeon who became famous for reforming and modernizing the practice of surgery, described these metal corsets in his work, stating that they were used "to amend the crookednesse of the Bodie." "In order to correct and to hide such a defect, they will be made to wear iron corsets, which shall be full of holes so that they will not be so heavy, and they will be well fitted and padded so as not to hurt a t all, and will be changed often if the patient ... [is] still growing." Paré also suggested metal boots to straighten a crooked leg. According to him, some deformities were congenital, others the result of accidents. In addition, he believed that some girls became "hunched and deformed from having had their bodies too tightly bound," and he complained that mothers put their girls in tight clothes "with the aim of making their waists smaller." Although Paré was a critic of fashionable corsetry, which he thought carried the risk of deformity by incorrect or excessive binding, he was an advocate of orthopedic corsets. Metal corsets were still sometimes recommended in the eighteenth century to correct crooked spines, although canvas stays were more commonly used (for example, by Alexander Pope); and, indeed, orthopedic corsetry continues to be used by doctors today as part of the treatment for scoliosis. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0201.larson.html review of her book http://wwics.si.edu/OUTREACH/WQ/WQCURR/WQBKPER/PREVBOOK/S02BK2.HTM Another review... and the note about constipation.. it certainly is more than probable.. though again it all depends on the person wearing the corset and perhaps the environment. Personal experience.. let's not worry too much about that;) And someone took notes at a lecture by her: http://corsethome.eu.org/corhist.htm so take this as you should a 2nd hand source.. I know my notes were often patchy while at lectures. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 00:26:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13547 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:26:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4Q23Y017717; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4Q1vA026688; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4PPvA026567 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m58.in-tch.com [216.166.191.58]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9F4AGn28623 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:10:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAB9A33.A2531C0E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book - Women who ruled References: <200210141734.g9EHYKuw015754@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:31:47 -0600 Status: RO I don't need the library for this one! I bought it last month in England, at the National Gallery. Cool book! --sue, smug book owner ;-P Shea Young wrote: > > Greetings list, > This book came through today: Women who ruled,edited by Annette Dixon, The > University of Michigan Museum of Art, ISBN: 1858941660 > > On the cover is the clearest reproduction I have ever seen of the 1545 > painting of Eleanora of Toledo. Inside, the painting shows what appears to a > fringe of pearls at the end of her belt. Another fabulous picture of Maria > Maddalena of Austria is offered, along with several woodcuts. > > It would be a good one to check out at the library! > > Yours truly in technical processing land, Shea Young > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 00:44:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13594 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:44:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4h33Y018542; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4h1vA000970; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4gEvA000801 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-64.152.164.51.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([64.152.164.51] helo=earthlink.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 181JX2-0001ei-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:42:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3DAB9CA4.6010207@earthlink.net> From: A F Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion References: <20021014091113.V43189-100000@shell.siscom.net> <009201c27402$3fc9edb0$03cdadcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:42:12 -0400 Status: RO A friend's daughter had severe scoliosis, and did indeed sleep in a corset like device for about a year to try to correct it. (It helped, but didn't do enough, and she did eventually have major surgery.) I stayed with her a couple of times, and strapped her into it. It was heavy plastic, looked dreadfully uncomfortable, though she said it wasn't too bad once she was used to it, and really did make a difference - I remember being able to tighten it several notches beyond where she'd been the previous visit. (Which meant not that she was thinner, but that she was straighter.) She only wore it at night because it restricted movement too much for daytime. And I've wondered if the iron ones were orthopedic ever since! Anne michaela wrote: > > >There *is* evidence for the orthopaedic theory, and Valerie Steele exacmines >it in her latest book... again I have a link to that to find... > >But it's certainly not the *only* reason. >http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/ae/books/ch1/1153123 excerpts of her >book. >Including this text: >Ambroise Paré (c. 1510-90), a French army surgeon who became famous for >reforming and modernizing the practice of surgery, described these metal >corsets in his work, stating that they were used "to amend the crookednesse >of the Bodie." "In order to correct and to hide such a defect, they will be >made to wear iron corsets, which shall be full of holes so that they will >not be so heavy, and they will be well fitted and padded so as not to hurt a >t all, and will be changed often if the patient ... [is] still growing." >Paré also suggested metal boots to straighten a crooked leg. According to >him, some deformities were congenital, others the result of accidents. In >addition, he believed that some girls became "hunched and deformed from >having had their bodies too tightly bound," and he complained that mothers >put their girls in tight clothes "with the aim of making their waists >smaller." Although Paré was a critic of fashionable corsetry, which he >thought carried the risk of deformity by incorrect or excessive binding, he >was an advocate of orthopedic corsets. Metal corsets were still sometimes >recommended in the eighteenth century to correct crooked spines, although >canvas stays were more commonly used (for example, by Alexander Pope); and, >indeed, orthopedic corsetry continues to be used by doctors today as part of >the treatment for scoliosis. > >http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0201.larson.html review of >her book >http://wwics.si.edu/OUTREACH/WQ/WQCURR/WQBKPER/PREVBOOK/S02BK2.HTM Another >review... and the note about constipation.. it certainly is more than >probable.. though again it all depends on the person wearing the corset and perhaps the environment. Personal experience.. let's not worry too much >about that;) > >And someone took notes at a lecture by her: >http://corsethome.eu.org/corhist.htm so take this as you should a 2nd hand >source.. I know my notes were often patchy while at lectures. > >michaela > > > > >_ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 00:52:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13620 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:52:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4q73Y018864; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4q1vA002933; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F4pcvA002813 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:51:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.7c.2fb82233 (4539) for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:51:30 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <7c.2fb82233.2adcf8d2@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] colored linen is period when? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7c.2fb82233.2adcf8d2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:51:30 EDT Status: RO --part1_7c.2fb82233.2adcf8d2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do think the answer to this question will be found in records from the dyer's guilds. The book Colors-The Story of Dyes and Pigments by Francois Delamare and Bernard Guineau talks about greater and lesser dyeworks guilds of the middle ages and that they were clearly two separate and distinct guilds. The greater dyeworks made "luxury products of superior quality using only the best fabrics and colorfast dyes". The lesser dyeworks which catered for the lower end of the cliental used cheaper and less stable dyes. It appears from a previous section on fabrics that these lesser fabrics were of hemp, wool and linen and the greater dyeworks concentrated on silk and wool. Unfortunately the authors do not site directly the evidence that lead to these conclusions however an extensive list of books for further reading is included as an appendix. I suspect this will be confirmed and if I find out any further evidence I shall post it. Lisa --part1_7c.2fb82233.2adcf8d2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do think the answer to this question will be found in records from the dyer's guilds.  The book Colors-The Story of Dyes and Pigments by Francois Delamare and Bernard Guineau talks about greater and lesser dyeworks guilds of the middle ages and that they were clearly two separate and distinct guilds.  The greater dyeworks made "luxury products of superior quality using only the best fabrics and colorfast dyes".  The lesser dyeworks which catered for the lower end of the cliental used cheaper and less stable dyes.  It appears from a previous section on fabrics that these lesser fabrics were of hemp, wool and linen and the greater dyeworks concentrated on silk and wool.

Unfortunately the authors do not site directly the evidence that lead to these conclusions however an extensive list of books for further reading is included as an appendix. I suspect this will be confirmed and if I find out any further evidence I shall post it. 

Lisa --part1_7c.2fb82233.2adcf8d2_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 01:15:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13720 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:15:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F5E23Y019626; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F5E0vA008055; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F5DHvA007826 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.23.25fb65ff (4539) for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:13:06 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <23.25fb65ff.2adcfde1@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] colored linen is period when? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_23.25fb65ff.2adcfde1_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:13:05 EDT Status: RO --part1_23.25fb65ff.2adcfde1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and I forgot to add, the author's said the undyed clothing, or clothing dyed with less stable dyes (again, hemp, wool, and linen) made the crowd look dull, indicating outer garments. Lisa --part1_23.25fb65ff.2adcfde1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and I forgot to add, the author's said the undyed clothing, or clothing dyed with less stable dyes (again, hemp, wool, and linen) made the crowd look dull, indicating outer garments.



Lisa --part1_23.25fb65ff.2adcfde1_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 01:42:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13806 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F5c23Y020552; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F5c1vA013425; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9F5bfvA013324 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCiGYpa+RJ87T27XXSQJLz7RxrOyA9H2AEA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HE5XWRDU; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:36:36 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny Message-ID: <20021015.003307.-214983.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:33:07 -0500 Status: RO Something quite similar happened to me several years ago coming home from a RenFaire. I was in full RenFaire lower class kit complete with knife on my belt, multicolored clothing, and boots. I stopped at a reststop/gas station on the tollway and was asked by a guy who saw me get out of the car whether I was Amish. I tried to keep a straight face while I explained that I wasn't and I WAS from a RenFaire. Sigh. Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 01:45:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13828 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:45:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F5j53Y020806; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F5j4vA015120; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9F5iHvA014875 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCiGYpa+RJ87TUlQFf8s/Weulz/yQESeeTg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HE5YBQU2; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:43:41 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online Message-ID: <20021015.003919.-214983.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:39:18 -0500 Status: RO I will enthusiastically add my applause to the thunderous acclaim. Really terrific job! I wish I could see it in person. Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 03:16:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20007 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:16:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F7G33Y024322; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F7G1vA006541; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9F7FhvA006457 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:15:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015071543.61674.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:15:43 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:15:43 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > > The main one I hear concerns corsetry, and it's very general -- that 'in the > past' girls wore corsets from childhood, and were unable to breathe or move > in them. I agree, while girls certainly were starting to wear sturdy linen stays and then corded once and soon stays from earliest childhood on I think it is big bulls' droppings to say they were unable to breathe or move. There are enough paintings surviving showing little girls in very tight/snug looking bodices playing and bouncing about. Caveat Reader: There is, though, an account of John Evelyn's niece being 2 or thereabouts who died because when she was laced into stays far too tightly her soft ribs caved in and pierced internal organs. BUT I have to say that while this account exist from the 17th c. we have no way of knowing how scientifically true it is. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 03:18:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22383 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:18:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F7I13Y024397; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F7I1vA006994; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:18:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F7H2vA006747 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-018.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.18]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D0D67D9C for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:16:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3DABC0E9.7050608@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] New project loose gown Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:16:57 +0200 Status: RO Hi, I'm starting a new dress diary of making a loose gown. At this point I have pictures of some sketches and the fabricks and trim. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Projects/Loosegown.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 03:32:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06829 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:32:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F7W23Y024796; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F7W0vA009922; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9F7V7vA009696 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:31:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015073107.760.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:31:07 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] New project loose gown To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DABC0E9.7050608@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:31:07 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > Hi, > > I'm starting a new dress diary of making a loose gown. > At this point I have pictures of some sketches and the fabricks and trim. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Projects/Loosegown.html > > Greetings, > Deredere Lovely Deredere, I am looking forward to watch it grow! I especially like the dark red and rabbit fur combination. awwwww, cute lil bunny rabbits *G* Sheesh that reminds me, I should update mine, not having done anything on the dress, but on other projects :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 04:50:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29812 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:50:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F8n73Y027684; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 02:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9F8n0vA025855; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 02:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9F8mlvA025790 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 02:48:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015084846.43084.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:48:46 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: trimmings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:48:46 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Hi Kate, Some great places you found! Thanks. www.kersen.com although their site seems to be down at the moment... It is up this morning and I had never heard of them before, but this is what their web site says: We regret to announce that due to administrative problems we cannot currently receive new orders. All orders received to date are being processed as normal. Please check again in a few days for a web site update. www.creativebeadcraft.co.uk is good for all sorts of sparkly things Lovely, I didorder their catalogue straight away. Macculloch and Wallis have a huge selection of fabrics and trims, although not online, and the mail-order catalogue doesn't have many pictures. They are indeed a problem, they mainly sell via the shop but I have never experienced them being friendly, you are right, to me, too, they were always grumpy. The others look great though. Thanks. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 06:09:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30133 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FA833Y029863; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FA81vA010800; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FA7tvA010768 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.106]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H40000W9PH3DT@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:07:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021015021209.04c299d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 02:15:18 -0700 Status: RO >We went across the street to Jack-In-The-Box for >>lunch, still wearing our floral-calico farm-women Victorians (Ardenwood >>does the 1890s). While we were there, a teenager, old enough to drive, >>asked us if we were from Renaissance Fair. >At least she didn't ask if you were in a play!!! ;) An SCA-acquaintance of mine once lent his armor to a theatre company in Berkeley. After the play he was loading it back into his car, and, as he put it, a 'freaked out Berkeley Hippie' asked him if he was in the SCA. He promptly replied, "No, I've just been in a play". He says he loves being able to tell that story. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 06:09:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30137 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FA8M3Y029883; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:08:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FA8MvA010884; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FA7tvC010768 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.106]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H40000W9PH3DT@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:07:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021015025229.04c5d2b0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] another urban legend - shoulder puffing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:05:52 -0700 Status: RO Another of my pet-peve urban legends is that shoulder puffing (we see this in many Ren. illustrations) is necessarily the shirt. I would believe this about much of Italy and the Germanies in the mid to late 1400s and early 1500s, but not about England in the mid to late 1500s, where sleeves are narrower and sometimes not the same colour as the puffings. There's a picture of Elizabeth I, in a red dress and carrying a three-colour fan, and another of her sometimes called the Phoenix Portrait, and an unknown Elizabethan woman in a red dress, with simple gold and black trim, and a white shirt embroidered in red roses and green leaves, and I have heard this one about all of those dresses, even tho the shirts are clearly not made of the same stuff as the puffing is. Baloney and applesauce, as my grandmother, born in 1880, used to say. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 08:20:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30965 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:20:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FCK53Y003647; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FCK1vA009312; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FCJfvA009239 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g9FCJ4Qj068039 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 05:19:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200210151219.g9FCJ4Qj068039@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021010.104818.-161379.0.catpurson@juno.com> from "Lalah T Tillinghast" at Oct 10, 2002 10:12:40 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 05:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Bjarne -- I downloaded some of your embroidery images, and i'm using them as the background desktop image on my laptop ... they are that inspiring. .heather. > > You have every right to be pleased, with both the embroidery and > the photos. I wish I had a tenth of your talent. What an honor it is to > know you, even from a long distance. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 08:40:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31140 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:40:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FCe33Y004329; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FCe1vA013948; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FCdgvA013865 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9FCdenp009157 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:39:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion In-Reply-To: <147.5fbbcc.2adc18e9@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In which case, the stock market oughta be really high right now -- saw something on the Spring fashions in the Washington Post, which had the hemlines at, oh, just about butt level. Ugh! -- Mara On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > How about the one that the stock market goes up as hemlines go up? This > actually had a basis in one very small statement of fact, which I can't > dredge up out of the mists of the past, but got to be applied generally. > Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 08:55:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31200 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:55:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FCt33Y005030; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FCt1vA017579; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FCsAvA017346 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9FCs9np010790 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:54:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] urban legands concerning the history of fashion In-Reply-To: <3DAA8155.28292.324F7857@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > Lots of theories about this one, but it could have been an orthopedic > device for controlling scoliosis. Unfortunately, some people *still* > require devices which look more tortuous than that for controlling > scoliosis. Most of them are teenage girls too. That's very true -- and considering the absolute horror that people then had of ricketts and other deforming diseases, I can see how some people might put their children into these things. There's an article from the British Costume Society called "The Unfashionable Use of Stays", on 18th c. stays (I think most of the iron ones predate the 18th c., but the principle is still relevant). It talks about stays being used to promote correct posture in both young boys and girls, in an age when ricketts were very much a concern... Some stays were advertised as having no obvious knots on the interior, so that the wearer's body wouldn't be deformed by trying to avoid an uncomfortable spot. My grandmother had polio as a child. Her father made her wear orthopedic boots and take ballet lessons, according to what my Mom has said, to strenghthen her muscles. She considered it torture at the time, but it obviously worked, as she was later in life a very graceful and accomplished dancer (not professionally; she was an art teacher). I think someone noted, when these iron corsets came up before, that a few of them have holes around the edges which might have been used for attaching a padded lining. Maybe some were orthopedic devices, some were shop signs, some were guild signs, who knows... -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 09:03:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31229 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:03:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD2O3Y005350; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:02:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD2FvA019409; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:02:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD1MvA019141 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9FD1Knp011733 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:01:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021014003501.00c90380@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO When I was 14 and living in Monterey, CA, I was travelling north to an SCA event in the San Francisco area. Both the person I was riding with and I were in costume of a sort of 14thc./PreRaphaelite flavor. She was asked if we were with the Hari Krishnas. (Snort!) This would have been the early 80s... People's lack of historical knowledge never fails to astound me. Now I'm doing 18th c. reenacting, and get asked if a) I'm Amish (there are a lot of Amish living in So. MD, but they don't dress anything like I do, that's for sure!) or b) I do American Civil War reenacting. Sigh, what's a former history major to do? -- Mara On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > My younger daughter and I were helping out with Ardenwood's Harvest > Festival today. We went across the street to Jack-In-The-Box for lunch, > still wearing our floral-calico farm-women Victorians (Ardenwood does the > 1890s). While we were there, a teenager, old enough to drive, asked us if > we were from Renaissance Fair. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 09:03:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31234 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:03:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD333Y005377; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD31vA019613; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD2HvA019403 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12458 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:07:03 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021015021209.04c299d0@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:07:03 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >At least she didn't ask if you were in a play!!! ;) > > An SCA-acquaintance of mine once lent his armor to a theatre company > in Berkeley. After the play he was loading it back into his car, and, > as he put it, a 'freaked out Berkeley Hippie' asked him if he was in > the SCA. He promptly replied, "No, I've just been in a play". He > says he loves being able to tell that story. The best "play" line I ever heard occurred when I went with a costumed SCA friend to an all-night diner after an event. (I wasn't in costume.) The giggly teenage girls who were waiting tables got an eyeful of his Italian short doublet, poofy shirt, curled long hair, and multicolored tights, and, after conferring, sent over our waitress to ask, "Are you in a play?" "Yes," he replied. "West Side Story." She was quite happy with the answer, which means either she doesn't know the play, or else she was just happy to have a reason and didn't want to think much about whether it made sense. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 09:07:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31241 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:07:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD663Y005501; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD63vA020435; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD58vA020162 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:05:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9FD56np012247 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:05:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Heard a joke about that... Reply: "No, Ma'am, we're with the Stamford Time Travel program. We just got back from 1066 and haven't had time to change yet." Confused tourist: "Oh, I didn't know they could do that yet..." -- Mara On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Jennifer Sena wrote: > At least she didn't ask if you were in a play!!! ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 09:11:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31257 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:11:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDA93Y005818; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDA1vA021538; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FD9YvA021404 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:09:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9FD9Wnp012800 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:09:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Yeah... That's one of the things I talk about when I'm telling tourists about 18th c. costume. I find it helps to point out that employees at Home Depot and Lowe's are now wearing belts for back support, and major sewing catalogues (Clotilde, specifically) are selling similar back braces for sewers. A well-fitted working class corset, NOT tight laced, serves much the same function. -- Mara On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > I think the image of the "restrictive" corset as a metaphor for restrictive > social conditions is just too good for many people to resist, no matter what > the facts are. After all, if all women in the past couldn't move in their > corsets, its a wonder any of them managed all their back-breaking work. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 09:17:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31270 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:17:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDG33Y006059; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDG1vA023113; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDFHvA022931 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A4747780029E; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:13:24 -0400 Message-ID: <005801c2744d$39079fe0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <20021014.190638.-113583.0.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:17:32 -0400 Status: RO Hello again. When my younger daughter acquired fleas presumably from the cat she slept with, the pharmacist suggested Sargents Flea Soap, and it worked just fine. KSM---- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion > Ick! Is Advantage safe for people? > > Folks not familiar with the name--it's flea goop. You squeeze a little > tube of it onto the nape of the neck and the rear of your pet. Works for > a month. Terrific product. Your pet may drag a flea or two in from the > wilds, but they won't last long. > > Arlys > > On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:07:07 -0700 MaryAnn Jones > writes: > > not to be disgusting you all, but I got a flea infestation in my hair > > several years ago. > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 09:23:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31289 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:23:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDM63Y006247; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDM1vA024805; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDKuvA024506 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9FDN1B23523.; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:23:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:20:54 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9FDKuvA024506 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:20:37 +0100 Status: RO Mara wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> People's lack of historical knowledge never fails to astound me. Now >I'm doing 18th c. reenacting, and get asked if a) I'm Amish (there are a lot >of Amish living in So. MD, but they don't dress anything like I do, that's >for sure!) or b) I do American Civil War reenacting. I've more than once been walking round in costume of the English Civil War period and been asked "Are you part of the mediaeval battle?". We also often get asked if we're Morris dancers (folk dancers who wear brightly coloured costumes). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 09:40:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31352 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:40:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDb63Y006866; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:37:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDb2vA029400; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDa3vA029073 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m145.in-tch.com [216.166.191.145]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9FDKqn07911 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:20:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAC1B40.DF08B7B8@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion References: <20021015071543.61674.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:42:24 -0600 Status: RO Or if it was even evidence of child abuse or something not remotely related to the actual fashions of the day.... --sue's 2 euro' worth N Kipar wrote: > > Caveat Reader: There is, though, an account of John Evelyn's niece being 2 or > thereabouts who died because when she was laced into stays far too tightly her > soft ribs caved in and pierced internal organs. BUT I have to say that while > this account exist from the 17th c. we have no way of knowing how > scientifically true it is. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 09:49:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31385 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDn33Y007509; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:49:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDn1vA003183; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDmOvA002976 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m145.in-tch.com [216.166.191.145]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9FDXFn12932 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAC1E27.44F14A55@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:54:47 -0600 Status: RO A couple of times over the years, I've had occasion to wear this one particular red (Elizabethan) outfit for an in-town demo. Because it's so involved, what I did was get dressed at work, and then take the bus to the demo in full kit. Both times, I got asked where my flamingo was. They were seeing this large-sized woman in a fancy, red dress, and figured, well, she had to be the Queen of Hearts..... I've since thought that would make a great shot for Penny's Costume Ball if I could just borrow someone's lawn flamingo.... --sue > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > >At least she didn't ask if you were in a play!!! ;) > > > > An SCA-acquaintance of mine once lent his armor to a theatre company > > in Berkeley. After the play he was loading it back into his car, and, > > as he put it, a 'freaked out Berkeley Hippie' asked him if he was in > > the SCA. He promptly replied, "No, I've just been in a play". He > > says he loves being able to tell that story. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 09:59:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31421 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:59:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDx23Y008102; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDx1VB006491; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FDwuVB006398 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:58:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-018.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.18]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466CF7DCF for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:58:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3DAC1F1D.9020600@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New project loose gown References: <3DABC0E9.7050608@kabelfoon.nl> <20021015060313.A18339@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:58:53 +0200 Status: RO Hi, Thanks for the link. The pattern is to expensive for me at this moment. But it looks good, also the other patterns. Have you, or someone else used their shoe patterns? I would love to make my own shoes but I find it hard to make good fitting patterns. Greetings, Deredere Elizabeth Lear wrote: >Looks like it will be lovely! > >If you want to avoid drafting the pattern, I recommend buying the >Mantua-Maker's Spanish Loose Gown pattern. I used it last winter, and >I highly recommend it. I also recommend buying it from Harper House, >as they have truly wonderful customer service. Here's a link - the >pattern is about halfway down the page. > > http://www.longago.com/medieval.html > > >Good luck! > ...eliz > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 11:00:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31785 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:00:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FEx33Y012164; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FEx1VB002140; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FEwRVB001890 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.180]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 03A65264D46 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:58:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007101c2745b$5bd0ed20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:58:44 +0200 Status: RO Hi. I have a little to say here. Not historically but when Nicole tryed on the calico bodice for her baroque dress, she was so tightly laced, that she could not take on her own shoes. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 2:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion > > > The main one I hear concerns corsetry, and it's very general -- that 'in the > past' girls wore corsets from childhood, and were unable to breathe or move > in them. I find this hysterical considering how costume movies are now > common, and one can see modern women who obviously have not been corseted > all their lives wearing corsets, running around, dancing, riding horses, > etc., without any ill effects. > > I think the image of the "restrictive" corset as a metaphor for restrictive > social conditions is just too good for many people to resist, no matter what > the facts are. After all, if all women in the past couldn't move in their > corsets, its a wonder any of them managed all their back-breaking work. > > A few years ago on this list someone wrote in to ask if a woman could > "really" fence in a corset, the way Catherine Zeta Jones did in the Zorro > movie out at the time. I guess the evidence of his/her own eyes wasn't good > enough! > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 11:14:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31822 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:14:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FFD33Y013293; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FFD1Wo009518; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FFBtWo008859 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:11:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.180]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D4A3526355F for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:11:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00d701c2745d$3e7bb370$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021015071543.61674.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> <3DAC1B40.DF08B7B8@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:12:14 +0200 Status: RO Hi. and now we are on this topic. I was very surprised to se Dreas pictures taken of the pink 17th. century stays. Dreas pictures were lovely, but i was quite surprised to se the small waist. This is definately a tight corset body. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion > Or if it was even evidence of child abuse or something not remotely > related to the actual fashions of the day.... > --sue's 2 euro' worth > > N Kipar wrote: > > > > Caveat Reader: There is, though, an account of John Evelyn's niece being 2 or > > thereabouts who died because when she was laced into stays far too tightly her > > soft ribs caved in and pierced internal organs. BUT I have to say that while > > this account exist from the 17th c. we have no way of knowing how > > scientifically true it is. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 11:57:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32041 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:57:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FFu53Y017043; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FFu1uS003546; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m24.jersey.juno.com (m24.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FFt2uS002875 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"6+EQmPyi7QIwbF+RNYxk33Zx31/Dh5tirvms12L/RCNOjWxbWvAY0w=="> Received: (from ysabiau@juno.com) by m24.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HE63AEC4; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:54:38 EDT To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Blackwork@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com, TheRenaissanceTailor@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20021015.115523.-225621.2.ysabiau@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,9-10,12-14 From: Christine Wright Subject: [h-cost] Seeking some nice Irish linen... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:55:23 -0400 Status: RO Greetings to all, Sorry for cross-posting to so many, but I'm looking for some _really_ nice, very lightweight Irish linen to make a period Elizabethan shirt out of for my husband (and Christmas is coming much too quickly!). The fabric needs to be a lightweight evenweave, and soft, and preferably white or soft white. I would really love to find something for less than $30/yard. I would also prefer to find linen woven with longer fibers, not chopped up short ones. Is this possible??!!? Help! The linen links I have are for inexpensive stuff, and are not what I'm looking for. Thanks very much for any help, Ysabiau de Mortagne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 12:19:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32144 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:19:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FGG53Y018988; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FGG0uS015682; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FGF6uS015130 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.104.73]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMB28096; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:12:08 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ce01c27466$495ccd20$49684ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021015.115523.-225621.2.ysabiau@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking some nice Irish linen... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:16:57 +0100 Status: RO John England sales@johnenglandtextiles.com or Stephen McComb castleisland2001@aol.com or stephen McCormack weaving@magee.iol.ie or Jim Murray emblem@iol.ie These mills all do small orders. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 12:34:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32202 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:34:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FGX43Y020610; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FGX1uS025179; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FGVwuS024566 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip211.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.211]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g9FGVq417583 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:31:52 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Message-ID: <3DABE011.28506.37A9BBF7@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021015071543.61674.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:29:53 -0700 Status: RO Nicole wrote: > I agree, while girls certainly were starting to wear sturdy linen > stays and then corded once and soon stays from earliest childhood on I > think it is big bulls' droppings to say they were unable to breathe or > move. There are enough paintings surviving showing little girls in > very tight/snug looking bodices playing and bouncing about. Caveat > Reader: There is, though, an account of John Evelyn's niece being 2 or > thereabouts who died because when she was laced into stays far too > tightly her soft ribs caved in and pierced internal organs. BUT I have > to say that while this account exist from the 17th c. we have no way > of knowing how scientifically true it is. The lacing of clothing can indeed do this, especially if it is done suddenly (like an angry caretaker trying to put a corset on a small recalcitrant child and pulling.yanking harder and faster than they should.) Or a child who has been kicked in the ribs "to make them behave", then (with their little rib fractures) is laced into a corset. (Child abuse was not invented in the current era. It has been going on probably since the beginning of time. We are just less tolerant of it and finding more ways of making the public aware that it is happening. Many people believe that because it doesn't happen in *their* household that it isn't really as bad as people say it is. What they don't realize is that sometimes it's worse.) You betcha, it's possible. Also, I've seen Xrays of women who had been laced since they were small. (Those early xray developers must have been just having a blast because so many of the still existing xrays from that time are of women such as this, with far fewer of men.) The organs get changed in interesting ways from it. They don't just get moved, they get permanently distorted even if the corset is not meant to be super tight. In the early medical textbooks talking about the mechanics of breathing, they thought that women (because of their gender, not realizing it was the effects of the corsetry) had a different way of breathing. Also, medical textbooks talk about the problems of women fainting (probably because they couldn't increase what doctors call "minute ventilation" when they were exerting or emotionally upset.) What this says is that even if women are not doing the type of tightlacing which the fetishists insist was common (which I doubt was common), that corsets which are used to shape the figure can cause medical problems. I suspect that there were women in the Victorian age who (because of vanity) did overlace to the point where they couldn't do active things. They probably used it as an excuse not to (because they didn't want to do so anyway.) There are a lot of people *now* who use what they've done to themselves as an excuse not to do something they don't want to do anyway. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 13:31:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA32764 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:31:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FHT73Y026060; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FHT1uS028008; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12007.mail.yahoo.com (web12007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.215]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FHSNuS027710 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015172822.20457.qmail@web12007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.227] by web12007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:28:22 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO GEtting ready to start on Drea's corset generator and was wondering how a Renaissance/Elizabethan corset stays in place without riding up or down. Some of the 19th century ones have shoulder straps and garters attached so there is a little tension to keep the waist at the waist but I don't think that attached garters are usual for that timeframe. Also do I need to cut the waistline a little differently as I wear a DD cup bra but don't have a proportionate waist? ie 48 bust but 38 waist with an underbust of 38 inches. I've not had good luck with 19th century corsets without the shoulder straps and garters. Suggestions? Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 13:36:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00309 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:36:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FHZ43Y026570; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FHZ1uS001446; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FHY5uS000946 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015173405.3805.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:34:05 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00d701c2745d$3e7bb370$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:34:05 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi. > and now we are on this topic. I was very surprised to se Dreas pictures > taken of the pink 17th. century stays. > Dreas pictures were lovely, but i was quite surprised to se the small waist. > This is definately a tight corset body. > > Bjarne Bjarne, it is indeed, but it is a tiny set of stays in the first place, it is everywhere very small, the proportion between shoulders and waist are not overly excessive. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 13:40:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00328 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:40:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FHd33Y026977; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FHd2uS003647; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FHbwuS003024 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:37:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from GENTEELARTS (user123.net100.pa.sprint-hsd.net [65.164.16.123]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14166 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:37:52 -0500 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] historical costume-funny Message-ID: <001401c27471$95d4e880$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3DAC1E27.44F14A55@in-tch.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:37:51 -0400 Status: RO Several years ago my husband and I and several friends were dining in a restaurant while dressed in mid-nineteenth century clothing. We could tell by the waiter's face he was about to ask why we were dressed that way. Anticipating his question, our friend looked solemnly in his face and said "Our mothers dress us funny." He gave us the strangest look, handed us the menus, and quietly walked away. Carolann Schmitt www.genteelarts.com Ladies of the 1860s Conference, March 7-9, 2003 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 13:55:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00382 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:55:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FHrF3Y028205; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FHr9uS011836; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail5.nyc.untd.com (outbound-20.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FHqHuS011286 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCu4Ez7j9tLMlsuXc+VbYW5b3VM1Zhm9qxw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail5.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HE69Y8R3; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:51:57 EDT X-Original-From: seamstrix@juno.com To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Subject: Re:[h-cost] Seeking some nice Irish linen... X-Mailer: Juno Webmail Version 1.0 From: seamstrix@juno.com Message-Id: <20021015.135157.18901.343800@webmail5.nyc.untd.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:51:27 GMT Status: RO I have bought very nice, fine white linen from Vogue Fabrics in Chicago. I believe that they will mail if you already know what you want- they don't have a catalog online that I'm aware of. It runs about $10 a yard which is very reasonable for cloth of this quality. Unfortunately, they have several white linens at that price, so I don't know how to tell you to differentiate. The sales help is generally very helpful in person, so it might bwe owrth a call to see what they can do for you. I an, unfortunately, away from home so I don't have the number handy but if you call information and ask for Vogue Fabrics in Evanston, Illinois they should be able to help you. Karen ---------- Christine Wright writes: From: Christine Wright To: SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Blackwork@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com, TheRenaissanceTailor@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] Seeking some nice Irish linen... Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:55:23 -0400 Greetings to all, Sorry for cross-posting to so many, but I'm looking for some _really_ nice, very lightweight Irish linen to make a period Elizabethan shirt out of for my husband (and Christmas is coming much too quickly!). The fabric needs to be a lightweight evenweave, and soft, and preferably white or soft white. I would really love to find something for less than $30/yard. I would also prefer to find linen woven with longer fibers, not chopped up short ones. Is this possible??!!? Help! The linen links I have are for inexpensive stuff, and are not what I'm looking for. Thanks very much for any help, Ysabiau de Mortagne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 14:17:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00483 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:17:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FIG83Y000579; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:16:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FIG0uS024444; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FIFfuS024258 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.106]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H41000RZC23HR@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:15:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021015105738.04e4a740@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:58:41 -0700 Status: RO >Heard a joke about that... Reply: "No, Ma'am, we're with the Stamford >Time Travel program. We just got back from 1066 and haven't had time to >change yet." > >Confused tourist: "Oh, I didn't know they could do that yet..." I heard the exact same story - I guess it makes that one an urban legend too. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 14:23:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00516 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:23:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FIM73Y001144; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FIM3uS027935; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FIL8uS027482 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 37023 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 2002 18:21:08 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 15 Oct 2002 18:21:08 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? In-Reply-To: <20021015172822.20457.qmail@web12007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021015141608.O84783-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sounds like you'd definitely be better off with shoulder straps on your corset to keep it in place. I much prefer effigy-corset type straps (wide at the center back, and narrowing to points that tie to the front neckline) as they are adjustable and don't dig into the armpit as much. With such a large differential between bust and waist size, I also recommend cutting the corset pattern at the side back to create a front and back section, with the back center and front center on the straight--otherwise the back center edge will be on the bias and stretch too much. Tying the farthingale to the corset ends up serving the same purpose as garters on a victorian corset: the weight of the farthingale and the skirts over it keep the corset from riding up too much. It also keeps the farthingale from slipping around and helps to distribute the weight of the dress more evenly. Good luck with your corset, Drea On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Cascio Michael wrote: > GEtting ready to start on Drea's corset generator and > was wondering how a Renaissance/Elizabethan corset > stays in place without riding up or down. Some of the > 19th century ones have shoulder straps and garters > attached so there is a little tension to keep the > waist at the waist but I don't think that attached > garters are usual for that timeframe. Also do I need > to cut the waistline a little differently as I wear a > DD cup bra but don't have a proportionate waist? ie 48 > bust but 38 waist with an underbust of 38 inches. > I've not had good luck with 19th century corsets > without the shoulder straps and garters. Suggestions? > Cassandra > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More > http://faith.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 14:53:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00632 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:53:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FIqE3Y003796; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FIq2uS014099; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmsoutbound.mx.net (cmsrelay03.mx.net [165.212.11.112]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FIpAuS013651 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:51:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200210151851.g9FIpAuS013651@net.indra.com> Received: from uadvg132.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.132) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2002 18:51:08 -0000 Received: from gw.smtp.postoffice.net [165.212.8.20] by uadvg132.cms.usa.net via mtad (CM.0402.2.02C) with ESMTP id 419gJoszg0292M32; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:51:06 GMT Received: from 206.163.135.19 [206.163.135.19] by uwdvg020.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.0402.4.07); Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:51:04 -0000 From: Shea Young To: Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Book - Women who ruled] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.4.07) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9FIpAuS013651 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:51:04 -0700 Status: RO Bella wrote: > Do you mean the one with her son? I've seen that one attributed to > circa 1550-55. Or is it an earlier one you're speaking of? Yes, the ever-so-popular one with her son. Interesting that they have chosen a different date. > If it's the portrait I'm thinking of it's a tassel of pearls. Trish at Raveness.com has webbed some great clear close-ups of this portrait, including the pearl tassel: > > Thanks for posting about this book - sounds good. :) Thank YOU for posting the link. And congrats on your Elizabethan gown. It took me two days of visiting the site before I was able to see it, but it was worth the wait! You do fine work Bella! Shea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 14:56:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00647 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:56:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FIsI3Y003958; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FIsInh015269; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80101.mail.yahoo.com (web80101.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FIqxuS014568 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015185254.51478.qmail@web80101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.208.30.248] by web80101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:52:54 PDT From: HEATHER CUTLER Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021014115855.87671.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2056351157-1034707974=:50922" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO --0-2056351157-1034707974=:50922 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bella, I just got the chance to see your webpage, and I must say... WOW! I love your outfit! ;-) Moira > A-hem.... :) > > You can find the page here: > > http://members.tripod.com/realm_of_venus/mygarb/index.htm > > > Bella > --0-2056351157-1034707974=:50922 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

 

 Bella,

I just got the chance to see your webpage, and I must say... WOW!  I love your outfit! ;-)

Moira

> A-hem.... :)
>
> You can find the page here:
>
> http://members.tripod.com/realm_of_venus/mygarb/index.htm
>
>
> Bella
>



--0-2056351157-1034707974=:50922-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 15:17:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00757 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:17:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJF83Y005824; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJF1nh026599; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJEYnh026285 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f1b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.27]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8649F481B69 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:14:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004001c2747f$2746b890$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] My latest sewing project Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:14:58 +0200 Status: RO Dear Bella. I also want to congratulate you with your beautifull italian renaissance gown. It is lovely to look at! I hope you get a lot of fun times, when using that. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 15:25:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00856 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:25:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJO33Y006596; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJO2nh001801; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJNZnh001424 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:23:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A04021477 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip203.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.203]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6752E20A4A for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005d01c27480$1343edd0$cb604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:21:25 -0400 Status: RO I have two favorite answers: A blank look, followed by the question " Why, no...why do you ask?", which really confuses them... Or (and I blatantly admit I stole this from someone, though I can't remember who) "No..(sad sigh)...I come from a very poor family. These are hand me downs." Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin & Mara Riley" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny > Heard a joke about that... Reply: "No, Ma'am, we're with the Stamford > Time Travel program. We just got back from 1066 and haven't had time to > change yet." > > Confused tourist: "Oh, I didn't know they could do that yet..." > > -- Mara > > On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Jennifer Sena wrote: > > At least she didn't ask if you were in a play!!! ;) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 15:45:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00936 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:45:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJi63Y008358; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:44:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJi2nh012925; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJh3nh012307 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:43:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9FJh1np007053 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:43:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? In-Reply-To: <20021015172822.20457.qmail@web12007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, Cassandra, You can certainly add straps. Go to the portion of Drea's site where she gives instructions for drafting the bodice for a gown for directions on strap placement. Alternatively, just cut out two 1" wide strips of the cardboard you're using for your mockup (I always draft mine out on posterboard and then adjust that during the fitting stage) and tape the straps on where they look right. A tip -- I find that it helps to put the straps on stays rather close together in the back, especially if they are widely placed in front, so that they are less likely to slip off the shoulders. This is probably why the Effigy corset (also on Drea's site) has that 'v' shape at the back, where the straps come together. If you do this, you might want to make the back higher, then add the straps. cheers, Mara On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Cascio Michael wrote: > GEtting ready to start on Drea's corset generator and > was wondering how a Renaissance/Elizabethan corset > stays in place without riding up or down. Some of the > 19th century ones have shoulder straps and garters > attached so there is a little tension to keep the > waist at the waist but I don't think that attached > garters are usual for that timeframe. Also do I need > to cut the waistline a little differently as I wear a > DD cup bra but don't have a proportionate waist? ie 48 > bust but 38 waist with an underbust of 38 inches. > I've not had good luck with 19th century corsets > without the shoulder straps and garters. Suggestions? > Cassandra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 15:48:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00969 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:48:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJl23Y008619; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJl1nh014638; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJkVnh014371 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9FJkUnp007485 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:46:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? In-Reply-To: <20021015141608.O84783-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sorry, Drea, should have read to the end of my mail queue first! Anyway, am working on a variant of the Effigy corset for my 1630s impression -- covering the outside with red wool, after sewing the boning channels. Thanks again for all your work :) Now if I can just get it done by this weekend... -- Mara On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > > Sounds like you'd definitely be better off with shoulder straps on your > corset to keep it in place. I much prefer effigy-corset type straps (wide > at the center back, and narrowing to points that tie to the front > neckline) as they are adjustable and don't dig into the armpit as much. (snip) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 15:54:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01015 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:54:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJs73Y009299; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:54:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FJs2nh018761; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FJrgnh018510 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 27641 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 2002 19:53:42 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by 0 with SMTP; 15 Oct 2002 19:53:42 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021015155157.N84783-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:53:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Yummy! What's this weekend? I've often wished I had enough skill, patience and insanity to recreate those red woolen stays in Fashion in Detail...they are really something. Actually, I really want to recreate the pink V&A stays more. Tho it's still clinging precariously to the bottom of my list of things to do. :) Drea On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > Sorry, Drea, should have read to the end of my mail queue first! > > Anyway, am working on a variant of the Effigy corset for my 1630s > impression -- covering the outside with red wool, after sewing the boning > channels. Thanks again for all your work :) Now if I can just get it > done by this weekend... > > -- Mara > > > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > > > > > Sounds like you'd definitely be better off with shoulder straps on your > > corset to keep it in place. I much prefer effigy-corset type straps (wide > > at the center back, and narrowing to points that tie to the front > > neckline) as they are adjustable and don't dig into the armpit as much. > > (snip) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 17:04:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01574 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:04:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FL353Y015760; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FL313P028089; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FL1v3P027498 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AngelaFLazear (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id g9FL1uLE284244 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:01:56 -0400 Message-ID: <00e801c2748e$173ac220$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Angela Lazear-CRC" To: References: <004001c2747f$2746b890$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:01:53 -0700 Status: RO I've gone to look at it five or six times over quite a few days and it's always suspended. Am I doing something wrong, or do they just turn it off a lot? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Do you not know I am a woman?. When I think, I must speak." As You Like It; III, ii - W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 12:14 PM Subject: [h-cost] My latest sewing project > Dear Bella. > I also want to congratulate you with your beautifull italian renaissance > gown. It is lovely to look at! > I hope you get a lot of fun times, when using that. > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 17:41:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02347 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:41:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FLe63Y019363; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FLe23P018458; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FLdi3P018251 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:39:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 181ZPh-0005B9-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:39:41 +0100 Message-ID: <290T0DC9qIr9IwI0@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:38:05 +0100 Status: RO One time we were coming back from an 18th century event (on foot, on a Saturday evening), and passed a group in Star Trek uniforms who shouted, in a friendly way, various things about "look at the weirdos in funny clothes" Then there was the event where another re-enactor, having learnt our group was from Edinburgh, complimented one chap on his Scottish outfit. "It's not Scottish" he replied. "Oh. But it's, sort of, Celtic, isn't it?" It was his best Rus Viking baggies! Jean Kevin & Mara Riley wrote >Heard a joke about that... Reply: "No, Ma'am, we're with the Stamford >Time Travel program. We just got back from 1066 and haven't had time to >change yet." > >Confused tourist: "Oh, I didn't know they could do that yet..." > >-- Mara > >On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Jennifer Sena wrote: >> At least she didn't ask if you were in a play!!! ;) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 18:04:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02505 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:04:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FM263Y021060; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FM223P029769; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FM1U3P029512 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:01:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g9FM0raY071662 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200210152200.g9FM0raY071662@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Book - Women who ruled] To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "SheaYoung" at Oct 15, 2002 11:51:04 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I'm still waiting.. I hate tripod! .heather. > > Bella wrote: > > > Do you mean the one with her son? I've seen that one attributed to > > circa 1550-55. Or is it an earlier one you're speaking of? > > Yes, the ever-so-popular one with her son. Interesting that they have chosen > a different date. > > > If it's the portrait I'm thinking of it's a tassel of pearls. Trish at > Raveness.com has webbed some great clear close-ups of this portrait, including > the pearl tassel: > > > > Thanks for posting about this book - sounds good. :) > > > Thank YOU for posting the link. And congrats on your Elizabethan gown. It took > me two days of visiting the site before I was able to see it, but it was worth > the wait! You do fine work Bella! > > Shea > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 18:49:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02753 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FMm93Y024676; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:48:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FMm13P021648; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FMlZ3P021461 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:47:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015224735.80187.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:47:35 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project - page is up right now To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00e801c2748e$173ac220$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:47:35 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Angela Lazear-CRC wrote: > I've gone to look at it five or six times over quite > a few days and it's > always suspended. Am I doing something wrong, or do > they just turn it off a > lot? You're not doing anything wrong Angela. There have been lots of hits on that page and Tripod are stingy with their bandwidth allowance apparently. They also keep my page offline longer and longer each time. I'm looking around for a better free web host for that section of my site. In the meantime the page is online *right now* if you still want to look. :) Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 18:52:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02778 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:52:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FMp33Y024879; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FMp33P023015; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FMov3P022967 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:50:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015225056.1999.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:50:56 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021015.003919.-214983.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:50:56 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I will enthusiastically add my applause to the > thunderous acclaim. Really > terrific job! I wish I could see it in person. > > Karen Thank you! If all the people who told me they wish they could see it in person turned up here in Australia, I'd be one very happy lady in getting to finally meet some very nice people, instead of only having names to go by. :) Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 18:57:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02828 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:57:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FMu13Y025280; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FMu03P025286; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FMt53P024829 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015225504.79315.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:55:04 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Book - Women who ruled] To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200210151851.g9FIpAuS013651@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:55:04 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Shea Young wrote: > Bella wrote: > > Thanks for posting about this book - sounds good. > :) > > > Thank YOU for posting the link. And congrats on your > Elizabethan gown. It took > me two days of visiting the site before I was able > to see it, but it was worth > the wait! You do fine work Bella! You're welcome, and thank you. :) I'm sorry Tripod is such a pain. I've also got a Geocities account and they're much better with bandwidth limits and getting me back online. What I rally need is one free site with about 100Mgs of space that allows me lots of bandwidth. Will look into it. :) Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 19:00:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02855 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:00:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FMx33Y025507; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FMx33P026643; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FMwh3P026504 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015225843.81276.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:58:43 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project is finally online To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021015185254.51478.qmail@web80101.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:58:43 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- HEATHER CUTLER wrote: > > > Bella, > > I just got the chance to see your webpage, and I > must say... WOW! I love your outfit! ;-) > > Moira Thank so much. :) I must get around to making a proper garb page with my other stuff on it. None of it is as fancy as this one though. :) Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 19:02:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02869 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:02:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FN263Y025786; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FN233P028176; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FN1R3P027883 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:01:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015230126.74665.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:01:26 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My latest sewing project To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <004001c2747f$2746b890$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:01:26 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Dear Bella. > I also want to congratulate you with your beautifull > italian renaissance > gown. It is lovely to look at! > I hope you get a lot of fun times, when using that. > > Bjarne Thank you! :) I'm going to wear it to an SCA event at the beginning of October, and I'm sure I'll have fun. I particularly love the brown silk/metallic gold stripped fabric. I must go back and buy up big on that one. Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 19:06:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02900 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:06:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FN523Y025954; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FN513P029363; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9FN403P029011 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021015230400.3562.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:04:00 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Book - Women who ruled] To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200210152200.g9FM0raY071662@jabberwock.wonderland.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:04:00 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Heather Meadows wrote: > I'm still waiting.. I hate tripod! > > .heather. I'm beginning to as well. Just checked again, and it's still online *right now*, though I don't know how long that will last. Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 19:41:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03110 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:41:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FNe33Y028276; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FNe13P013194; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FNd83P012870 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:39:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id RAA05008 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:00:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200210160000.RAA05008@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: [...] > I suspect that there were women in the Victorian age who (because of > vanity) did overlace to the point where they couldn't do active > things. They probably used it as an excuse not to (because they > didn't want to do so anyway.) There are a lot of people *now* who use > what they've done to themselves as an excuse not to do something they > don't want to do anyway. Don't underestimate the effects of vanity. I know a lot of women my age (mid-30s) who have foot deformities from wearing extremely pointy-toed shoes. Winkle-pickers and extremely pointed pumps were popular when we were in high school (1980s). There are an awful lot of women with bunion and tailor's toe deformities from those shoes. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 19:46:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03230 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:46:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FNi13Y028518; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FNi13P014685; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9FNho3P014560 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:43:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.142.64.3]) by mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20021015234344.QJIX20527.mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:43:44 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021015163750.00a3ec40@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <20021015225903.26620.46540.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] source for ballet slipper-like shoes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:43:20 -0700 Status: RO I've always had bad luck trying to use ballet slippers for shoes for 19th century dress. They just don't have enough support and they really aren't meant to be worn outdoors. But I just found a company called Saugus Shoes that makes every kind of bridal shoe you can imagine (and quite a few you can't!) and they have several differente types of ballet style shoes, including one with a real, =hard= leather sole! They also have the added benefit of being dyeable, since they're designed for bridal use. I'm sure there are probably many of you who already know about this company, but I thought I'd share it anyway, just in case. Here's the link to the page with the ballet slipper shoes: http://saugusshoes.com/catalog.html?page=13&cat=shoe The fourth one in the second row of pics is the one that's closest to a real 19th century slipper. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 20:20:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03610 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:20:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G0K23Y000760; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G0K03P027139; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G0JM3P026930 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021016001917.FQUK17158.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:19:17 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021015170713.00a028d0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion In-Reply-To: <3DABE011.28506.37A9BBF7@localhost> References: <20021015071543.61674.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:10:25 -0700 Status: RO Do you remember that show 1900 house? the woman in that show had to wear appropriate wear and she had trouble breathing and so they did tests with and without the corset and showed that the corset definitely interfered with her breathing. you can bet she wasn't lacing tightly. of course, she didn't grow up with a corset. At 09:29 AM 10/15/2002 -0700, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >Nicole wrote: > > I agree, while girls certainly were starting to wear sturdy linen > > stays and then corded once and soon stays from earliest childhood on I > > think it is big bulls' droppings to say they were unable to breathe or > > move. There are enough paintings surviving showing little girls in > > very tight/snug looking bodices playing and bouncing about. Caveat > > Reader: There is, though, an account of John Evelyn's niece being 2 or > > thereabouts who died because when she was laced into stays far too > > tightly her soft ribs caved in and pierced internal organs. BUT I have > > to say that while this account exist from the 17th c. we have no way > > of knowing how scientifically true it is. > >The lacing of clothing can indeed do this, especially if it is done >suddenly (like an angry caretaker trying to put a corset on a small >recalcitrant child and pulling.yanking harder and faster than they >should.) Or a child who has been kicked in the ribs "to make them >behave", then (with their little rib fractures) is laced into a >corset. (Child abuse was not invented in the current era. It has >been going on probably since the beginning of time. We are just less >tolerant of it and finding more ways of making the public aware that >it is happening. Many people believe that because it doesn't happen >in *their* household that it isn't really as bad as people say it is. >What they don't realize is that sometimes it's worse.) > >You betcha, it's possible. > >Also, I've seen Xrays of women who had been laced since they were >small. (Those early xray developers must have been just having a >blast because so many of the still existing xrays from that time are >of women such as this, with far fewer of men.) The organs get changed >in interesting ways from it. They don't just get moved, they get >permanently distorted even if the corset is not meant to be super >tight. In the early medical textbooks talking about the mechanics of >breathing, they thought that women (because of their gender, not >realizing it was the effects of the corsetry) had a different way of >breathing. Also, medical textbooks talk about the problems of women >fainting (probably because they couldn't increase what doctors call >"minute ventilation" when they were exerting or emotionally upset.) > >What this says is that even if women are not doing the type of >tightlacing which the fetishists insist was common (which I doubt was >common), that corsets which are used to shape the figure can cause >medical problems. > >I suspect that there were women in the Victorian age who (because of >vanity) did overlace to the point where they couldn't do active >things. They probably used it as an excuse not to (because they >didn't want to do so anyway.) There are a lot of people *now* who use >what they've done to themselves as an excuse not to do something they >don't want to do anyway. > >Kat Russell > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 20:38:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03671 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:38:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G0b13Y001729; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G0b03P002344; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G0aL3P002151 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:36:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA30783 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:38:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3DACB554.6B4AD670@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] source for ballet slipper-like shoes References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021015163750.00a3ec40@postoffice.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:39:49 -0700 Status: RO To Julie- Pretty shoe!! Do mean to wear it for early 19c (Regency)? How do you find the right shop that carries it, since they only sell to bridal shops? Thanks, Theresa Eacker Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: (Pruning) > > I've always had bad luck trying to use ballet slippers for shoes for 19th > century dress. > > But I just found a company called Saugus Shoes they have > several differente types of ballet style shoes, including one with a real, > =hard= leather sole! http://saugusshoes.com/catalog.html?page=13&cat=shoe > > The fourth one in the second row of pics is the one that's closest to a > real 19th century slipper. > > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 21:11:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03786 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:11:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G1A23Y003522; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G1A03P011864; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G1903P011568 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a244.in-tch.com [66.62.107.44]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9G0rqL02635 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:53:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DACBDAB.4C8D57E6@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? References: <20021015155157.N84783-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:15:23 -0600 Status: RO *sigh* I'd like to do *both*!! I'm keeping myself out of that particular dilemma by just doing stuff at the moment that's pre-corsetry. Eventually (fall/winter projects loom ;-), I'll be making a couple of Flemish marketwoman outfits, but I'm planning on using hemp cording in the bodices of the undergowns. --Sue Drea Leed wrote: > > Yummy! What's this weekend? I've often wished I had enough skill, > patience and insanity to recreate those red woolen stays in Fashion in > Detail...they are really something. Actually, I really want to recreate > the pink V&A stays more. Tho it's still clinging precariously to the > bottom of my list of things to do. :) > > Drea > > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > > Sorry, Drea, should have read to the end of my mail queue first! > > > > Anyway, am working on a variant of the Effigy corset for my 1630s > > impression -- covering the outside with red wool, after sewing the boning > > channels. Thanks again for all your work :) Now if I can just get it > > done by this weekend... > > > > -- Mara > > > > > > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > > > > > > > > Sounds like you'd definitely be better off with shoulder straps on your > > > corset to keep it in place. I much prefer effigy-corset type straps (wide > > > at the center back, and narrowing to points that tie to the front > > > neckline) as they are adjustable and don't dig into the armpit as much. > > > > (snip) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 21:16:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03815 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:16:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G1F33Y003807; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G1F23P013243; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G1EL3P013003 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a244.in-tch.com [66.62.107.44]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9G0xEL04585 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:20:45 -0600 Status: RO Something I said in a reply to another message made me wonder....Does anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, long fall/winter projects? I'm not necessarily referring to things that have to be done for a specific winter event, but something to while away the long, dark hours many of us are facing with oncoming winter. I'm planning on working on lots of research (using the lovely books I bought in Ireland and England), more lace-making, finishing my blackwork shift, and making some 13th and 14th century dresses, just using fabric from my stash. Oh...and finishing some late 18th c. lower/middle class clothes. So, what are the rest of you planning? --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 21:28:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03893 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:28:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G1S13Y004372; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G1S03P016769; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f153.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.153]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G1Rs3P016711 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:27:49 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:27:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2002 01:27:49.0298 (UTC) FILETIME=[3D1B9120:01C274B3] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:27:49 -0700 Status: RO This is the winter of my dream dresses beginning. I just have to save up for the linen underthings and then I'm ready to get started. Chemise, pantaloons, corset, hoop, flounced evening gown, and headpiece. I've been trying to learn about glove making, but it's like some national secret. I just really like gloves and want to know how to make my own out of whatever I want them from. Just another new fascination. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >From: Sue Clemenger >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: "h-costume@indra.com" >Subject: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins >from the southern hemisphere!) >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:20:45 -0600 > >Something I said in a reply to another message made me wonder....Does >anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, long fall/winter >projects? I'm not necessarily referring to things that have to be done >for a specific winter event, but something to while away the long, dark >hours many of us are facing with oncoming winter. >I'm planning on working on lots of research (using the lovely books I >bought in Ireland and England), more lace-making, finishing my blackwork >shift, and making some 13th and 14th century dresses, just using fabric >from my stash. Oh...and finishing some late 18th c. lower/middle class >clothes. >So, what are the rest of you planning? >--sue >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 22:33:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04284 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:33:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G2W63Y008071; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G2W13P004226; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G2Vi3P004149 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.135] (as3-4-149.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.135]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g9G2Vgu20458 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021015105738.04e4a740@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20021015105738.04e4a740@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:28:22 -0700 Status: RO At 10:58 AM -0700 10/15/02, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>Heard a joke about that... Reply: "No, Ma'am, we're with the Stamford >>Time Travel program. We just got back from 1066 and haven't had time to >>change yet." >> >>Confused tourist: "Oh, I didn't know they could do that yet..." > >I heard the exact same story - I guess it makes that one an urban legend too. Possibly -- although I heard the story from several people in Gryphonsguard (sp?) who (when they told it) were the actual participants in the incident, at some restaurant in Palo Alto (the location of Stanford University) after a day-event there. After the off-hand quip, they went out and actually had "Stanford University Time-Travel Club" id cards printed up which I saw with my own eyes. My memory says that Eric Foxworthy was one of the participants, so it might even theoretically be possible to track down specifics. The event was nearly a couple decades ago, so there's plenty of time for it to have turned into a legend, and even for other people, having heard the story, to have re-used the same line on other occasions. All in all, the version above is astoundingly similar in detail to what I heard. The main differences are that I believe the way I heard it they had just gotten back from the 15th century, but presumably at some point when the connection with Stanford University had become less relevant to the story, and the name got shifted to "Stamford", this suggested a change of venue to 1066 to give "Stamford" a context. I'm absolutely fascinated by the dynamics of how modern folk-tales spread and evolve -- especially by the way a particularly good story will diversify and get attached to multiple people (either by the story-telling process or because the events, once known, were repeatable), and how particular people become "story-magnets", having large numbers of generic adventures attributed to them and given specifics. The process gives you a good hands-on idea of how things like the Arthurian legend cycle developed! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 22:50:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04399 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:50:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G2n13Y009002; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G2n03P008844; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m24.jersey.juno.com (m24.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9G2mI3P008642 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"6+EQmPyi7QIwbF+RNYxk3/+WuyHmu1CB7G1wGRha/sZflclsoGmgjw=="> Received: (from ysabiau@juno.com) by m24.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HE78NK6N; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:47:55 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking some nice Irish linen... Message-ID: <20021015.224918.-828701.1.ysabiau@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-38,40 From: Christine Wright Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:16:59 -0400 Status: RO Thanks everyone! That gives me some good places to go. -Ysabiau On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:16:57 +0100 "Melanie Wilson" writes: > John England sales@johnenglandtextiles.com > or Stephen McComb castleisland2001@aol.com > or stephen McCormack weaving@magee.iol.ie > or Jim Murray emblem@iol.ie > > These mills all do small orders. > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have > received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or > disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents > of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of > the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lady Ysabiau de Mortagne, OM Christine Wright Cadet to Don Donal Artur of the Silver Band Seamstress Exchequer, Shire of Endewearde Fleurdesigns ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 22:58:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04462 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:58:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G2w33Y009357; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G2w23P011357; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G2vf3P011236 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0H4200B1M05OWK@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:56:12 -1000 (HST) From: annora Subject: Re: [h-cost] washing suggestions In-reply-to: <3DAAF165.F4CF87E0@mccc.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:57:10 -1000 (HST) Status: RO Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I think I'll go with some combination of slosh and spray in the shower. annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 23:22:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04573 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:22:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G3M33Y010464; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G3M23P017770; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20209.mail.yahoo.com (web20209.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9G3L53P017482 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021016032105.77928.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:21:05 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:21:05 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Jennifer Sena wrote: > I've been trying to learn about glove making, but > it's like some national > secret. I just really like gloves and want to know > how to make my own out > of whatever I want them from. Just another new > fascination. Would this site be of any use to you? Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 15 23:28:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04605 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:28:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G3S23Y010958; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G3S23P019893; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20209.mail.yahoo.com (web20209.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9G3Rh3P019780 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021016032743.78529.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:27:43 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:27:43 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Something I said in a reply to another message made > me wonder....Does > anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, > long fall/winter > projects? Well, here in the southern hemisphere it's of course Spring heading into a long, hot, dry (in South Australia) summer. Sewing anything heavy and time consuming is out, but I might once again try blackwork (I usually get impatient and put it down). Small, light, easy projects are the best thing. In autumn/winter I do like to sew more involved/fancier/heavier garments, although I don't usually plan them, unless there's an event I want something new for. :) Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 00:20:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04955 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:20:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G4J23Y013636; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G4J13P003688; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G4Il3P003635 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.187.241.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.187.241]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 181fdu-0005ti-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:18:46 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021012203753.009f4e30@mail.attbi.com> References: <3DA39F3C.D5B60352@faucet.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20021008162409.009fd920@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021012203753.009f4e30@mail.attbi.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it up Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:16:08 -0700 Status: RO At 8:42 PM -0700 10/12/02, MaryAnn Jones wrote: >thanks everyone for the advice. I have some other things to try now >that are better than my original idea. it takes a while to come up >to speed on these things. Now that I have done a number of costumes >of this period, (ie the renn faire period) and looked at a ton of >pictures I have a better idea of what is actual Elizabethan and what >is faire Elizabethan. All I can say is, I am glad I am not queen. >Maryann I don't know about her new (red brocade) gown, but I remember hearing that one of the Actress-Playing-Queen's old outfits at this Faire weighed in at 62 pounds total, including undergarments.... -- ____________________________________________________________ O Christian Ashley, gentlewoman to Lady Stafford | Chris Laning + Guild of St. George, Northern California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 00:44:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05107 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:44:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G4i23Y014924; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G4i03P010229; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G4h43P010016 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m84.in-tch.com [216.166.191.84]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9G4RYL26538 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:27:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DACEFC0.694F4059@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny References: <4.3.1.2.20021015105738.04e4a740@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:49:04 -0600 Status: RO No kidding! When I first started in the SCA, the strangest/funniest stories I heard were of some (I thought) fictional guy named Danu. Everyone called them "Danu stories," much in the same way/intent as you would "just so stories" or fairy tales. Only to find, several years later, that he was *real,* and that some of the stories were true. --sue Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > I'm absolutely fascinated by the dynamics of how modern folk-tales > spread and evolve -- especially by the way a particularly good story > will diversify and get attached to multiple people (either by the > story-telling process or because the events, once known, were > repeatable), and how particular people become "story-magnets", having > large numbers of generic adventures attributed to them and given > specifics. The process gives you a good hands-on idea of how things > like the Arthurian legend cycle developed! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 00:51:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05144 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:51:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G4o13Y015219; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G4o03P011732; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G4nq3P011703 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:49:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip165.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.165]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g9G4nlm11064 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:49:47 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Message-ID: <3DAC8CE3.20698.3A4CEBF3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20021015170713.00a028d0@mail.attbi.com> References: <3DABE011.28506.37A9BBF7@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:47:15 -0700 Status: RO > Do you remember that show 1900 house? the woman in that show had to > wear appropriate wear and she had trouble breathing and so they did > tests with and without the corset and showed that the corset > definitely interfered with her breathing. you can bet she wasn't > lacing tightly. of course, she didn't grow up with a corset. But it doesn't do that with everyone. While I've never worn a 1900's corset, I regularly wear a 16th C corset without any problems at all (even though I have asthma bad enough that it has increased the lower flair of my ribcage). I have also, without any breathing difficulty worn an 18th C corset for more than 14 hours (from 10am until at least midnight) at Costume Con one year (St. Louis). I had forgotten that the previous time I wore it I had not completely closed the lacing so that the edges were touching but had about 2" between. So, I was overlaced by at least 2". Yet, no breathing problems even when I danced. (Well, not more than when I dance without a corset anyway.) It is probably pretty individual. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 01:37:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05323 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:37:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G5b33Y017034; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G5b03P022733; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G5aK3P022579 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:36:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net ([12.142.64.3]) by mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20021016053614.QJKB23792.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:36:14 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021015222650.00a3ec80@postoffice.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@postoffice.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] source for ballet slipper-like shoes In-Reply-To: <20021016032801.19880.87899.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:35:54 -0700 Status: RO >Julie- > >Pretty shoe!! Do mean to wear it for early 19c (Regency)? How do you >find the right shop that carries it, since they only sell to bridal shops? > >Thanks, > >Theresa Eacker Theresa - Yes, a large portion of my costume wardrobe is Regency, and it's always been hard to find the right shoes. The website has a store locator engine, and you just put in your city or area code and it lists all the bridal stores near you that carry their products. I've already seen them in one bridal store, and checking the LA area it seems that virtually every bridal store carries their shoes in stock. I would assume that if you need a pair in a certain size and/or style they could special order it. The one shop I saw the pair at had them for sale for $65 (but they're a very high end store that is in the process of going out of business. Everything was half off). I've also found then at a couple of websites, for between $25 and $30. That sounds like a good deal. Julie >Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: (Pruning) > > > > I've always had bad luck trying to use ballet slippers for shoes for 19th > > century dress. > > > > But I just found a company called Saugus Shoes they have > > several differente types of ballet style shoes, including one with a real, > > =hard= leather sole! >http://saugusshoes.com/catalog.html?page=13&cat=shoe > > > > The fourth one in the second row of pics is the one that's closest to a > > real 19th century slipper. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 03:10:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05623 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:10:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G7A53Y020121; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G7A13P012353; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9G79L3P012201 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021016070921.5359.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:09:21 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DAC8CE3.20698.3A4CEBF3@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:09:21 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Do you remember that show 1900 house? the woman in that show had to > > wear appropriate wear and she had trouble breathing and so they did > > tests with and without the corset and showed that the corset > > definitely interfered with her breathing. you can bet she wasn't > > lacing tightly. of course, she didn't grow up with a corset. > > But it doesn't do that with everyone. When I wear Bjarne's blue dress and am nicely laced into it I can't breathe. Any physical activity, even just walking a bit faster, is impossible, the breathing only works on the very upper part of the lungs, nothing on the lower, no deeper breath, and all I can do is what the guys like watching (har har *growls*) which makes the cleavage 'jiggle'. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 03:14:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07559 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:14:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G7D13Y020182; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G7D03P012911; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G7C73P012728 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA01099 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:14:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3DAD1214.53B47B3A@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] source for ballet slipper-like shoes References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021015222650.00a3ec80@postoffice.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:15:35 -0700 Status: RO To Julie- I'm deeply into Regency as well and shoes _were_ a continual search. I just tried out buying a pair of flats (with a nice, solid sole) and covering them with a period-looking silk brocade. It's messy but does give a nice looking result, especially for dances. Thanks for the lead on this shoe site!!! Theresa Eacker Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: > > Theresa - > > Yes, a large portion of my costume wardrobe is Regency, and it's always > been hard to find the right shoes. > > The website has a store locator engine, and you just put in your city or > area code and it lists all the bridal stores near you that carry their > products. I've already seen them in one bridal store, and checking the LA > area it seems that virtually every bridal store carries their shoes in > stock. I would assume that if you need a pair in a certain size and/or > style they could special order it. The one shop I saw the pair at had them > for sale for $65 (but they're a very high end store that is in the process > of going out of business. Everything was half off). I've also found then at > a couple of websites, for between $25 and $30. That sounds like a good deal. > > Julie > > >Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: (Pruning) > > > > > > I've always had bad luck trying to use ballet slippers for shoes for 19th > > > century dress. > > > > > > But I just found a company called Saugus Shoes they have > > > several differente types of ballet style shoes, including one with a real, > > > =hard= leather sole! > >http://saugusshoes.com/catalog.html?page=13&cat=shoe > > > > > > The fourth one in the second row of pics is the one that's closest to a > > > real 19th century slipper. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 03:50:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20035 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:50:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G7o23Y021236; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G7o13P019737; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9G7nw3P019720 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:49:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021016074958.28655.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:49:58 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:49:58 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Something I said in a reply to another message made me wonder....Does > anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, long fall/winter > projects? Just one? Gazillions, far too many, because it's the time before the next season.. which does mean, that I make of course everything BUT the costumes that I NEED for next season and will end up yet again stitching away like mad *G* I'm not necessarily referring to things that have to be done > for a specific winter event, but something to while away the long, dark > hours many of us are facing with oncoming winter. Yep, that includes historicised clothes for mundane wear, I looked into my wardrobed and realised while they are stuffed with costumes I have 'nothing' for work. AHRGH! So I finished a black and gold justacucorps, a red silk 1700 waistcoat, just finished yesterday a peach damask Italian surcote, and am working on a new shirt, eh, well, several. All for work of course. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 04:14:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15696 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 04:14:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G8D13Y022465; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G8D03P024053; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G8C53P023929 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:12:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9G8EBB20258.; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:14:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:12:03 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9G8C53P023929 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:11:44 +0100 Status: RO I'm envious of these people who say they can do all sorts of strenuous things in corsets. I have *no* spare flesh on my torso, so there's nothing much to cushion between my stays and my ribcage. Even though mine (1630s) don't nip my waist, they restrict the lower chest. This summer I nearly fainted while playing the shawm in a sunny room. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 10/16/02 08:09am >>> --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Do you remember that show 1900 house? the woman in that show had to > > wear appropriate wear and she had trouble breathing and so they did > > tests with and without the corset and showed that the corset > > definitely interfered with her breathing. you can bet she wasn't > > lacing tightly. of course, she didn't grow up with a corset. > > But it doesn't do that with everyone. >When I wear Bjarne's blue dress and am nicely laced into it I can't breathe. >Any physical activity, even just walking a bit faster, is impossible, the >breathing only works on the very upper part of the lungs, nothing on the >lower, no deeper breath, and all I can do is what the guys like watching >(har har *growls*) which makes the cleavage 'jiggle'. >Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 04:28:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21909 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 04:28:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G8S13Y022933; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G8S03P026771; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G8R03P026576 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9G8T7B29644.; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:29:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:27:00 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from thesouthern hemisphere!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9G8R03P026576 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:26:33 +0100 Status: RO Sue wrote: >So, what are the rest of you planning? A dark green wool 17th century petticoat to replace my shabby old one. I also intend to alter the readymade linen shift I bought in the spring, changing the drawstring wrists to cuffs tied with ribbons and doing something similar with the neckline. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 05:50:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22197 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:50:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G9n33Y025178; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G9n13P010530; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9G9md3P010442 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip164.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.164]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9G9manp013497 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021016054007.01ec29f0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? In-Reply-To: <20021015155157.N84783-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:46:19 -0400 Status: RO This weekend is the St. Mary's Militia Muster, at St. Mary's City, MD (early 17th c.) -- great event, I'm looking forward to it! Oh, yeah, those stays in Fashion in Detail are gorgeous... both sets! Has anyone diagnosed a specific type of costumer's insanity called 'corset fever' yet, characterized by the desire to make different styles of stays just to see how they work? The stays I'm working on don't have the boning channels showing through to the outside, so they won't look quite so interesting, but I'm going for that boned-bodice look you see in 17th c. genre art. Cheers, Mara At 03:53 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Yummy! What's this weekend? I've often wished I had enough skill, >patience and insanity to recreate those red woolen stays in Fashion in >Detail...they are really something. Actually, I really want to recreate >the pink V&A stays more. Tho it's still clinging precariously to the >bottom of my list of things to do. :) > >Drea > > >On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > > Sorry, Drea, should have read to the end of my mail queue first! > > > > Anyway, am working on a variant of the Effigy corset for my 1630s > > impression -- covering the outside with red wool, after sewing the boning > > channels. Thanks again for all your work :) Now if I can just get it > > done by this weekend... > > > > -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 07:23:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22505 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:23:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GBM13Y027368; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GBM03P027800; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GBL43P027632 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.221]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H4200LERNJ3EU@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 04:21:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) In-reply-to: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021016040501.04bf0c50@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 04:19:24 -0700 Status: RO >but something to while away the long, dark >hours many of us are facing with oncoming winter. This winter I will probably do pretty much as I have been doing. Those long winter nights around here aren't cold enough to keep most Californians indoors. If this Winter is especially wet, we might get as much as 15 inches of rain. Last New Year's Day, for example, I went for a stroll on the beach in San Francisco near Cliff House, coincidentally with about 1000 other people. It wasn't raining, and the sun was out. I didn't go in the water, but some of the dogs chasing Frisbees, and little children, did. (Obligatory costume content: I wore jeans, a long-sleeved shirt, a jacket, and my usual shoes - no mittens, muffler, or hat. There were maybe as many as 10 surfers, all wearing wet-suits.) But seriously, many living history sites hereabouts close down in like October, and don't open up again till like March, on account of the possibility of rain. So we spend the down-time sewing for next year. I still need to start/finish my Dickens' dress, and should really finish my Ardenwood dress too. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 08:14:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22649 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:14:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GCD23Y028963; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GCD03P010714; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GCCI3P010555 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:12:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-009scfairp0365.dialsprint.net ([63.189.145.111] helo=faucet.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 181n29-0007fl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:12:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3DAD6565.AEC6F141@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:11:00 -0500 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > > The best "play" line I ever heard occurred when I went with a costumed SCA > friend to an all-night diner after an event. (I wasn't in costume.) The > giggly teenage girls who were waiting tables got an eyeful of his Italian > short doublet, poofy shirt, curled long hair, and multicolored tights, > and, after conferring, sent over our waitress to ask, "Are you in a play?" > "Yes," he replied. "West Side Story." My favorite answer is "Death of a Salesman." And no, I never actually say that. I'm a professional educator, so I give them as much info as can fit into the attention-span of a slightly-interested random stranger. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 08:30:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22703 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:30:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GCT23Y029372; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GCT03P014137; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GCSo3P014105 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a213.in-tch.com [66.62.107.13]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9GCDfL08901 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAD5D01.D12B8EC4@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021016054007.01ec29f0@saltmine.radix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:35:13 -0600 Status: RO Not that I know of, but they sure should, 'cuz I think I've got a case....the ones I'm drooling at the most are outside my reenactment time period, but that won't stop me from making them, and the appropriate outfits as well!! And then there were those lovely, yummy stomachers in the Costume Museum in Bath, and those lovely, lovely 18th c. gowns.....oh, man....maybe it's a good thing I live somewhere that *doesn't* have an 18th c. group! --Sue Kevin + Mara wrote: > Has > anyone diagnosed a specific type of costumer's insanity called 'corset > fever' yet, characterized by the desire to make different styles of stays > just to see how they work? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 08:41:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22740 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GCf33Y029769; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GCf23P016687; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GCeT3P016563 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:40:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a213.in-tch.com [66.62.107.13]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9GCPKL12450 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAD5FBC.6F5AF5EE@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:46:52 -0600 Status: RO Now me, I'm squishy. Really squishy, with lots of boobage. So, a well-fitting corset (I do 16th c. stuff) doesn't cause me too much constriction/grief, although it is annoying not being able to bend at the waist. However, let me gain 10, 20 pounds, and then I can still technically fit into the thing, but the lacing's that much tighter (fighting more flesh) and *then* I've noticed breathing restriction issues. I also notice something similar with some of the ItalianRen dresses I've made--a certain amount of containment seems to be okay, but not serious compression. What's interesting about another style I've run across (Robin's fitted gowns) is that the boobage is definitely confined and shaped (quite firmly), but I didn't notice any constriction/problems breathing *at all,* and I'd not thought that possible! So, perhaps some of our differences in experiences with breathing in corsets or confining bodices depend on the style of the garment as well? Would women in certain socio-economic strata, and certain time periods, have been wearing more -or less- restrictive clothing? And the foundation garments be correspondingly more or less restrictive as well? That'd be interesting to compare....do a study of different corset/stays/pairs of bodys types and how they affect movement, breathing, etc. Someone could walk their way right up from the 16th c. into the 20th..... Hmmm......maybe if I have time, someday! --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > > I'm envious of these people who say they can do all sorts of strenuous things in corsets. I have *no* spare flesh on my torso, so there's nothing much to cushion between my stays and my ribcage. Even though mine (1630s) don't nip my waist, they restrict the lower chest. This summer I nearly fainted while playing the shawm in a sunny room. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 09:32:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22993 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:32:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDV23Y002033; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDV03P029226; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDUE3P029004 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18373 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:35:08 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion In-Reply-To: <3DAD5FBC.6F5AF5EE@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:35:08 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > What's interesting about another style I've run across (Robin's fitted > gowns) is that the boobage is definitely confined and shaped (quite > firmly), but I didn't notice any constriction/problems breathing *at > all,* and I'd not thought that possible! You're not the first person to notice this. I've costumed a lot of singers, who are very leery of anything constricting. They tell me (often with some surprise) that the fitted dress actually encourages them to sing from the diaphragm like they're supposed to. There's no restriction below the level of the ribcage. As for the upper body, it's fit to the ribs, with the breast tissue pushed up and out of the way. There's enough flexibility in the fabric itself to accommodate normal breathing expansion (and muscle motion) at the ribcage level, and when you need to breathe deeply, you automatically do it from lower down. This is very different from corsets that are meant to cinch the waist, which can certainly interfere with deep breathing and singing. But the 14th-century look emphasized a belly swell. The illusion of the small waist comes from (1) the fitted ribcage, and (2) the shaped small of the back. (I personally think the small of the back is underutilized in today's fashion. It's an extremely sexy, shapely feature on nearly every woman.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 09:33:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22998 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:33:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDW13Y002085; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDW03P029525; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDVp3P029478 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be56.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.86]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D5DD0481118 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:31:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005201c27518$80dc47a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021016054007.01ec29f0@saltmine.radix.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:32:41 +0200 Status: RO Hi Are you kitting! (sorry dont know if this is right spelled) If i had the time, i would love to make all the corsets there are in books. I really am very fetished about this, but not in a sexual manner, only fascinated of the different shapes they make. And i find them very very beautifull. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin + Mara" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? > This weekend is the St. Mary's Militia Muster, at St. Mary's City, MD > (early 17th c.) -- great event, I'm looking forward to it! > > Oh, yeah, those stays in Fashion in Detail are gorgeous... both sets! Has > anyone diagnosed a specific type of costumer's insanity called 'corset > fever' yet, characterized by the desire to make different styles of stays > just to see how they work? > > The stays I'm working on don't have the boning channels showing through to > the outside, so they won't look quite so interesting, but I'm going for > that boned-bodice look you see in 17th c. genre art. > > Cheers, > Mara > > At 03:53 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >Yummy! What's this weekend? I've often wished I had enough skill, > >patience and insanity to recreate those red woolen stays in Fashion in > >Detail...they are really something. Actually, I really want to recreate > >the pink V&A stays more. Tho it's still clinging precariously to the > >bottom of my list of things to do. :) > > > >Drea > > > > > >On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > > > > Sorry, Drea, should have read to the end of my mail queue first! > > > > > > Anyway, am working on a variant of the Effigy corset for my 1630s > > > impression -- covering the outside with red wool, after sewing the boning > > > channels. Thanks again for all your work :) Now if I can just get it > > > done by this weekend... > > > > > > -- Mara > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 09:45:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23023 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:45:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDi13Y002720; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDi03P003709; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDhj3P003636 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:43:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be56.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.86]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F5FA48235A for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:43:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <006401c2751a$2b8967e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] dress stand question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:44:37 +0200 Status: RO Hello there! I want to ask a question about dress stands. I have to go and buy a new one because my old is worn out. I want to have the same type like the old one where i can squeeze some buttons and get a larger bust, waist -hip. The one i have is a size 38 and i really want the same size because it is very fine when i make the corsets for the costumes. Well my latest costumer is a large woman, and i wondered dont you think i could pad up the dress stand to the large size? If i baught some of that quilting material you use to put inside when you quilt. I could make some layers on top of each other and get the large meassures? Then i could make the corset after her meassures, and put it on so that it fits, and go on from here. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 09:47:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23031 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:47:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDl03Y002863; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDl03P004551; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDkt3P004507 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:46:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net ([10.116.0.123]) by scanmail3.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:41:50 -0700 Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123] by scanmail3.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AC9E2B2E00DC; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:41:50 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:41:50 -0600 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] dress stand question Message-ID: <000101c2751a$b2c06d30$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <006401c2751a$2b8967e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:48:24 -0500 Status: RO Yes, that's what I have done. Measure her waist length, though--from bosom to waist. Most corset patterns are too long for me, as I am short-waisted. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:45 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] dress stand question Hello there! I want to ask a question about dress stands. I have to go and buy a new one because my old is worn out. I want to have the same type like the old one where i can squeeze some buttons and get a larger bust, waist -hip. The one i have is a size 38 and i really want the same size because it is very fine when i make the corsets for the costumes. Well my latest costumer is a large woman, and i wondered dont you think i could pad up the dress stand to the large size? If i baught some of that quilting material you use to put inside when you quilt. I could make some layers on top of each other and get the large meassures? Then i could make the corset after her meassures, and put it on so that it fits, and go on from here. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 09:54:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23042 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:54:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDr43Y003202; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDr03P006352; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GDqE3P006094 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:52:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be56.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.86]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A7327482976 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:52:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008c01c2751b$5bdfde00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <000101c2751a$b2c06d30$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress stand question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:53:08 +0200 Status: RO Hello. Yes i have ben told about this, but in her case the latter is different. I have to make it longer. But thanks for your advise Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Baird" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:48 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] dress stand question > Yes, that's what I have done. > > Measure her waist length, though--from bosom to waist. Most corset > patterns are too long for me, as I am short-waisted. > > Kim > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:45 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] dress stand question > > Hello there! > I want to ask a question about dress stands. I have to go and buy a new > one > because my old is worn out. > I want to have the same type like the old one where i can squeeze some > buttons and get a larger bust, waist -hip. > The one i have is a size 38 and i really want the same size because it > is > very fine when i make the corsets for the costumes. > Well my latest costumer is a large woman, and i wondered dont you think > i > could pad up the dress stand to the large size? If i baught some of that > quilting material you use to put inside when you quilt. I could make > some > layers on top of each other and get the large meassures? > Then i could make the corset after her meassures, and put it on so that > it > fits, and go on from here. > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 10:13:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23150 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:13:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GE923Y004149; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GE903P011787; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GE8v3P011764 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H42006S4V6UF8@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:06:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress stand question In-reply-to: <008c01c2751b$5bdfde00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <000101c2751a$b2c06d30$0201a8c0@kimathlon> <008c01c2751b$5bdfde00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:06:02 -0400 Status: RO I also use padding both quilting backing and towels. I try to pad each area separately as the person I want to replicate usually has different hip and ribcage proportions than my stand. I purchased a "C" cup bra to get a bust after covering the stand with padding. But the part I wanted to tell you about was to tie a piece of twill tape around the waist, especially with quilt batting. The waist area has a tendency to expand out and tying a string around it will keep the measurement true. Linda K-S At 3:53 PM +0200 10/16/02, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hello. >Yes i have ben told about this, but in her case the latter is different. I >have to make it longer. >But thanks for your advise > >Bjarne >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kim Baird" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:48 PM >Subject: RE: [h-cost] dress stand question > > >> Yes, that's what I have done. >> >> Measure her waist length, though--from bosom to waist. Most corset >> patterns are too long for me, as I am short-waisted. >> >> Kim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >> Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews >> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:45 AM >> To: h-costume@indra.com >> Subject: [h-cost] dress stand question >> >> Hello there! >> I want to ask a question about dress stands. I have to go and buy a new >> one >> because my old is worn out. >> I want to have the same type like the old one where i can squeeze some >> buttons and get a larger bust, waist -hip. >> The one i have is a size 38 and i really want the same size because it >> is >> very fine when i make the corsets for the costumes. >> Well my latest costumer is a large woman, and i wondered dont you think >> i >> could pad up the dress stand to the large size? If i baught some of that >> quilting material you use to put inside when you quilt. I could make >> some >> layers on top of each other and get the large meassures? >> Then i could make the corset after her meassures, and put it on so that >> it >> fits, and go on from here. >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 10:34:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23227 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:34:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GEX33Y005968; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GEX13P021234; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GEW13P020848 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m209.in-tch.com [216.166.191.209]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9GEGpL22090 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAD79DF.53188F62@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:38:23 -0600 Status: RO I hadn't thought of it in quite that way (silly me), but you're right. So...maybe one of the differences between the constriction levels of various corsetry/body-shaping clothing involves what particular part of the torso is being compressed, and into what particular shape? I'm only (personally) familiar with the early/mid 16th c. "cone" silhouette, and not at all with the various elongated/not-elongated, bow-fronted, pigeon-bellied, hourglassed variations that came after. Or the light corsets folks have described being worn under Regency stuff. --sue, waiting for the pound cake to come out of the oven so she can go to work ;-) Robin Netherton wrote: > > You're not the first person to notice this. I've costumed a lot of > singers, who are very leery of anything constricting. They tell me (often > with some surprise) that the fitted dress actually encourages them to sing > from the diaphragm like they're supposed to. There's no restriction below > the level of the ribcage. As for the upper body, it's fit to the ribs, > with the breast tissue pushed up and out of the way. There's enough > flexibility in the fabric itself to accommodate normal breathing expansion > (and muscle motion) at the ribcage level, and when you need to breathe > deeply, you automatically do it from lower down. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 11:07:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23599 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:07:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GF563Y008610; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GF503P006769; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9GF4i3P006564 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:04:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtASgru92rI8Nrx7usIhiVo="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HE9JSSBM; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:04:12 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Message-ID: <20021016.080311.-113583.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,12-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:35:13 +0000 Status: RO I'm a singer and a friend of mine designed a barrel corset to hold up a very heavy and gorgeous Italian Renaissance gown that I had to be able to sing in. The thing was so well done that it held up the dress and did not confine my floating ribs or musclature. It also did not squish the upper part of my frontage. :) Another thing that works for singers--another singing friend made an Italian gown which was of the attatch your own sleeves variety, so essentially a sleeveless dress. It had a bodice which stopped just below the breast line, and was laced on the side. The softly gathered skirt then dropped gracefully from the bodice to the floor. It did not require any kind of additional support--the bodice was solidly constructed, and did what it was supposed to without any additional help. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 11:10:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23637 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:10:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GF5K3Y008638; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:05:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GF5J3P006925; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:05:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9GF4i3P006566 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:04:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtASgru92rI8b3MiXcYAqSc="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HE9JSSBP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:04:12 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) Message-ID: <20021016.080311.-113583.4.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:40:39 +0000 Status: RO > --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Something I said in > a reply to another message made me wonder....Does > > anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, long fall/winter > > projects? Not necessarily long projects, but definately catch-up projects. I've got a bunch of embroidery to do. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 11:40:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23758 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:40:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GFcK3Y011799; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GFc93P026204; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GFbS3P025793 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:37:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g9GFapaR077316 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:36:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200210161536.g9GFapaR077316@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [Re: [h-cost] Book - Women who ruled] To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?=" at Oct 16, 2002 09:04:00 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I'll, uh, have to keep waiting. .heather. > > --- Heather Meadows wrote: > > I'm still waiting.. I hate tripod! > > > > .heather. > > I'm beginning to as well. Just checked again, and it's > still online *right now*, though I don't know how long > that will last. > > > > > Bella > > http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers > - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 11:59:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24065 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:59:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GFw73Y013716; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GFw03P008093; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GFva3P007863 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:57:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id g9GFva31007859 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:57:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20021016095735.K10801@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] mail bouncers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:57:35 -0600 Status: RO Hotmail is bouncing email from this list to all hotmail.com accounts. If you know one of these people, please contact them and ask them to complain to hotmail. Thanks. ----- Forwarded message from postmaster@mail.hotmail.com ----- Delivery to the following recipients failed. maggiros@hotmail.com misssalchow@hotmail.com audreybmorin2@hotmail.com noxcat@hotmail.com kprack@hotmail.com alexfrazier@hotmail.com jbmcardle@hotmail.com kimie205@hotmail.com distantdesigns@hotmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 12:04:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24102 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:04:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GG313Y014316; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GG303P011086; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GG2S3P010803 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:02:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9GG2Qnp027714 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:02:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion In-Reply-To: <200210160000.RAA05008@gw.retro.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Speaking of shoes, I recently came across a quote -- unfortunately, I can't remember where; Waugh maybe? -- about Victorian women's feet. I've often wondered how in the world they got their feet into those long, thin shoes; they can't have all had feet that shape! I have narrow feet, and even mine wouldn't fit most of the period shoes I've seen. Anyway, the quote was something to the effect that women wore shoes that deformed their feet into that long, thin shape. I wore some pointy-toed shoes as a teen in the 80s, but not on a regular basis, so don't have those foot deformities, I'm happy to say! But the current styles, which have a block-ish toe, all look like duck-feet to me. My feet aren't shaped like _that_, either... I think I'll stick with my Swedish clogs. -- Mara On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > Don't underestimate the effects of vanity. I know a lot of women my > age (mid-30s) who have foot deformities from wearing extremely pointy-toed > shoes. Winkle-pickers and extremely pointed pumps were popular when we > were in high school (1980s). There are an awful lot of women with bunion > and tailor's toe deformities from those shoes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 12:20:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24176 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:20:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGJ93Y015845; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGJ1U7020576; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGIHYq020061 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9GGIFnp000166 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:18:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021015170713.00a028d0@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO However -- they should have given her TWO corsets, one that was old and 'limber' or loose, and the second one for 'fancy dress'. I think she was lacing too tightly, if she had that much trouble breathing. I've made, and worn, Victorian corsets and they don't have to be that uncomfortable. -- Mara On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, MaryAnn Jones wrote: > Do you remember that show 1900 house? the woman in that show had to wear > appropriate wear and she had trouble breathing and so they did tests with > and without the corset and showed that the corset definitely interfered > with her breathing. you can bet she wasn't lacing tightly. of course, she > didn't grow up with a corset. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 12:24:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24246 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:24:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGN63Y016284; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGN3U7023009; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGMBU7022448 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9GGMAnp000679 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:22:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) In-Reply-To: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hm. Last winter I made that quilted wool petticoat... But so far, no BIG plans for this winter. I have a bunch of smaller projects to work on, though; need to make an 18th c. man's wool coat, a wool tartan jacket, finish my hubby's wool tartan jacket and trews... the list goes on and on. Your projects sound interesting! Cheers, Mara On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Something I said in a reply to another message made me wonder....Does > anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, long fall/winter > projects? I'm not necessarily referring to things that have to be done > for a specific winter event, but something to while away the long, dark > hours many of us are facing with oncoming winter. > I'm planning on working on lots of research (using the lovely books I > bought in Ireland and England), more lace-making, finishing my blackwork > shift, and making some 13th and 14th century dresses, just using fabric > from my stash. Oh...and finishing some late 18th c. lower/middle class > clothes. > So, what are the rest of you planning? > --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 12:26:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24256 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:26:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGO13Y016354; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGO1U7023622; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGNaU7023347 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:23:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9GGNZnp000963 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:23:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) In-Reply-To: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hm, I just thought of something -- I've been meaning to make that Susannah Fourment outfit for several years, now, and will soon (waiting for some ribbon and findings) have all the materials I need. That would make a great winter project! -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 12:43:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24371 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:43:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGfA3Y018074; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGf1U7004046; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9GGeFU7003560 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:40:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCu4Ez7j9tLMlDGKX22KvidZomgA1T0Be1Q=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HE9P9LWU; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:39:41 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Message-ID: <20021016.113844.-167069.7.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 14-15 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:38:44 -0500 Status: RO I have spent a good portion of my life wearing corsets of various sorts and I rarely have any trouble breathing in them. As Nicole has observed, you do indeed breathe differently in a corset, but it shouldn't make you unable to breathe. I find that my Elizabethan corset allows me to project very well (anyone who has heard me yelling during Queen's parade can attest that I have volume while marching briskly). In addition, I can also do half an hour of vigorous Renaissance dance twice a day without any trouble. And the year I worked Fright Fest at Great America, I did it while wearing a theatrical version of a Victorian bustle dress that included a period correct corset and I chased adolescent boys all over my area without difficulty. No! Not for that reason!!!!! I also found that it gave my lower back great support so that at the end of a long 10 hour day spent on concrete, my feet were killing me but my back felt fine. Now I need to make myself an 18th century corset and feel how that style works! Karen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 12:45:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24398 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:45:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGi23Y018370; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGi2U7005786; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGhNU7005437 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9GGhLnp003438 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:43:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion In-Reply-To: <3DAD79DF.53188F62@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Mmm, pound cake ;) Well, speaking of Victorian corsets -- I certainly _can_ lace that one too tight for comfort/breathing, but generally don't. The 'wasp waist' look/feel of that corset is very different from the cone-shaped look/feel of the 17th and 18th centuries. The only time my 18th c. stays have been a problem was when I had an asthma fit at a very dusty, hot event; but I think the heat was more of a problem than the stays. I can lace them up pretty tightly, but because there's one long lace, you can't easily lace your waist tighter than your rib cage, and the lacing 'slips'. (And I generally don't lace that tightly anyway -- snug, not tight.) With a Victorian corset, where the bottom can be laced at a different tension than the top part, you can definitely cinch the waist in a lot more. -- Mara On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I hadn't thought of it in quite that way (silly me), but you're right. > So...maybe one of the differences between the constriction levels of > various corsetry/body-shaping clothing involves what particular part of > the torso is being compressed, and into what particular shape? I'm only > (personally) familiar with the early/mid 16th c. "cone" silhouette, and > not at all with the various elongated/not-elongated, bow-fronted, > pigeon-bellied, hourglassed variations that came after. Or the light > corsets folks have described being worn under Regency stuff. > --sue, waiting for the pound cake to come out of the oven so she can go > to work ;-) > > Robin Netherton wrote: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 12:54:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24483 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:54:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGr63Y019180; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGr2U7010866; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GGqbU7010608 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9GGqanp004618 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:52:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion In-Reply-To: <20021016.113844.-167069.7.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Yes, I tell the tourists at reenacting events that I can sit on a wooden stool, or on the ground, all day while wearing my stays and have no back pain. Other medical uses for stays -- I've been known to wear them to correct bad posture, if I'm hunched over the computer or sewing machine too long. And last winter, while recovering from abdominal surgery, I wore them to hold my sore muscles in (later found an elastic bandage at the drug store that served the same purpose and was less obtrusive). I found that if I didn't wear my stays or the bandage, I was so tired from the muscle pain that I was absolutely exhausted half way through the day, whereas if I wore my stays (or, later, the bandage), I felt much better. (Glad I don't have to wear one every day now, but they DO have their uses!) It's rather funny how irrational/panicked our society has gotten about corsetry... -- Mara On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I also found that > it gave my lower back great support so that at the end of a long 10 hour > day spent on concrete, my feet were killing me but my back felt fine. Now > I need to make myself an 18th century corset and feel how that style > works! > > Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 14:13:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24960 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:13:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GIBA3Y026148; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GIB1U7024220; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GIABU7023776 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:10:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.211]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B25C0262CBC for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:10:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001501c2753f$6b2bb090$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] corset tight lacing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:11:15 +0200 Status: RO Well my two cents for this. When i started for real to make 18th century corsets, when i made some costumes for the hairdressers who makes historical hairstyles, i was tempted to make the waist's as small as possible. The models were young ladies, who really didnt mind me lacing them tightly, as a matter of fact i think they liked it as much as i did. This is a habit i have made from then, and perhaps i did make Nicoles bodice two tight. Gennerally i think that most people who asks you to make a costume, know that the corseting is a prime priority for making a good figure, and they have all read that ladies fainted and heard themself with corsets. And many of the ladies, are very interrested to feel how it is to wear those machines. And they are ready to suffer a little for it. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 15:46:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25546 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:46:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GJj73Y004633; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GJj3U7014759; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9GJibU7014500 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:44:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29285 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2002 19:44:35 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-80.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.166.66.80) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2002 19:44:35 -0000 Message-ID: <003801c2754b$565986e0$5042a6d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: <3DAD6565.AEC6F141@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:36:27 -0400 Status: RO My favorite "funny costume story" was posted about a year ago on a SCA newsgroup or e-mail list. Unfortunately, I can't remember the lady's name to give her credit. The lady in question had left the site of the Pennsic War to go to the local supermarket, a place that sees many garbed SCAdians those 2 weeks. While picking through the produce, she saw a calico bonnet a couple aisles over and immediately felt irrate. Thoughts like "Why can't some people get a clue" and "How 19th century!" occupied her mind. When she saw the rest of the lady at the checkout, it still took her a minute or two to re-adjust her mindset to realize that this was a real Amish lady rather than a badly dressed SCAdian. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 15:49:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25560 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:49:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GJl23Y004799; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GJl1U7015787; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GJk9U7015345 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.34.221]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H43005BMAWWES@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:46:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion In-reply-to: <3DAD5FBC.6F5AF5EE@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021016115725.00c95b10@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:44:25 -0700 Status: RO >Now me, I'm squishy. Really squishy, with lots of boobage. So, a >well-fitting corset (I do 16th c. stuff) doesn't cause me too much >constriction/grief, although it is annoying not being able to bend at >the waist. I too am of the squishy persuasion, which means that modern Spandex sports bras are useless to me. So I have started using my 'house-wife's-model' Victorian corset in place of a sports bra when I Morris dance. Mine has shoulder straps to prevent my bouncing right out the top, as our style (Cotswold, Adderbury Village, and some Border) involves a certain amount of jumping-up-and-down steps. The straps help when I polka at Dickens' Fair, same reason. I can't bend at the waist very well in the thing, which means I can't drive to and from dance events while wearing it, but it does the job of a sports bra very nicely. It has three separate laces, one just for the 2 pairs of holes at the waist, one for all the 5 pairs above that, and one for all the 6 pairs below that. I don't think this is period (for any period), but it means that the waist lacing doesn't gap and that the abdominal lacing is never too tight. It has about two inches of 'spring' in back. The best thing about being 'of a certain age' is that nobody expects me to have a tiny waist. In fact, I don't think having a tiny waist, at my age, is period anyway, for any period. So while I could corset down to a 26 inch waist in 1973, at 150 pounds, I feel fine, these days, about only corseting down to 40 inches comfortably. I weigh more now, and am more than twice the age I was in 1973. (My costumes are better too.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 16:24:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25704 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:24:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GKN93Y008746; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:23:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GKN2U7005267; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GKMOU7004862 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 181ugR-000KuU-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:22:23 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) References: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:20:52 +0100 Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote >Something I said in a reply to another message made me wonder....Does >anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, long fall/winter >projects? I'm not necessarily referring to things that have to be done >for a specific winter event, but something to while away the long, dark >hours many of us are facing with oncoming winter. >I'm planning on working on lots of research (using the lovely books I >bought in Ireland and England), more lace-making, finishing my blackwork >shift, and making some 13th and 14th century dresses, just using fabric >from my stash. Oh...and finishing some late 18th c. lower/middle class >clothes. >So, what are the rest of you planning? >--sue Not a luxurious "something interesting to keep me busy", just all the stuff I need for next season. 1215 dress, 1150 dress, new braies, new hose, new undertunic for him, embroidery all round my best dress, several miles of fine braid for his best tunic. And strip and redecorate the hallway - 7 doors, 4 windows. And it's halfway through October already, help! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 16:36:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25783 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:36:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GKY43Y009576; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GKY2U7011196; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GKX7U7010692 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 181uqo-000LCO-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:33:06 +0100 Message-ID: <1pATxuDtycr9IwIz@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion References: <200210160000.RAA05008@gw.retro.com> In-Reply-To: <200210160000.RAA05008@gw.retro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:31:41 +0100 Status: RO There was a legend/tradition at my school, which started in the 1870s, that sometimes some of the older girls in their corsets would start to faint in morning assembly, and the headmistress would bellow from the platform "Mary Smith (or whoever), CONTROL yourself!" - the implication being that they were swaying more out of affectation than real physical distress. Jean Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote >kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >[...] >> I suspect that there were women in the Victorian age who (because of >> vanity) did overlace to the point where they couldn't do active >> things. They probably used it as an excuse not to (because they >> didn't want to do so anyway.) There are a lot of people *now* who use >> what they've done to themselves as an excuse not to do something they >> don't want to do anyway. > >Don't underestimate the effects of vanity. I know a lot of women my >age (mid-30s) who have foot deformities from wearing extremely pointy-toed >shoes. Winkle-pickers and extremely pointed pumps were popular when we >were in high school (1980s). There are an awful lot of women with bunion >and tailor's toe deformities from those shoes. > >Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 >Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris >Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. >"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 18:13:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26297 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:12:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GMC43Y019310; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:12:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GMC2GY005447; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cmsoutbound.mx.net (cmsrelay01.mx.net [165.212.11.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9GMBGGY005024 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200210162211.g9GMBGGY005024@net.indra.com> Received: from uadvg143.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.143) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2002 22:11:12 -0000 Received: from gw.smtp.postoffice.net [165.212.8.26] by uadvg143.cms.usa.net via mtad (CM.0402.2.02C) with ESMTP id 492gJPwLk0464M43; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:11:10 GMT Received: from 206.163.135.19 [206.163.135.19] by cmsweb10.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.0402.4.07); Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:11:09 -0000 From: Shea Young To: Subject: Re: [[h-cost] Fall and Winter projects X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.4.07) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9GMBGGY005024 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:11:09 -0700 Status: RO I need to finish the quilted waistcoat from Sally Queen's site before Thanksgiving. We do a primitive camp out with the extended family over the 4 day holiday. It's out in a high mesa area, with ponderosa pines and a small, cascading stream nearby. Mt. Hood can be seen in the distance. The temperature can range anywhere from 25 - 60 degrees (F) and I wear many layers! I took Drea's Tudor/Elizabethan class and bought Margo's pattern and have the idea of probably making up a Spanish loose gown - don't know if that will be THE project for this winter because I also want to do a Flemish outfit - don't have the stamina to do both. I think I can do either one from my current fabric stash. Oh, and I want to make the dress on the cover of Fitting and Proper (on the right). A close friend belongs to a Rev War group and we want to be able to play with them. They have been invited to Williamsburg and are busy making new clothes and practicing their military duties. My husband wants some help in drafting and sewing a waistcoat. The fabric is a beautiful creamy gold brocade, with small flowers - no I didn't embroider them. My next embroidery project will be a blackwork shift. Oh, that reminds me, this past weekend I found a 1940s heavy linen dresser scarf done up in a simple blackwork design. Quite inspiring! As usual, too many desires and not enough time, patience and stamina - but we have a whole house full of fabric and trims! Shea in Portland, OR Sue Clemenger wrote: > Something I said in a reply to another message made me wonder....Does > anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, long fall/winter > projects? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 18:54:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26476 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:54:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GMr83Y022542; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GMr1GY025290; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GMqWGY025085 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] (exim) by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 181x1h-0005Pi-00; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:52:29 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 181x1h-0000ba-00; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:52:29 -0400 From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] iron age Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Has anyone run across this series: "Surviving the Iron Age" on PBS? A friend caught it last night and mentioned it to me, I missd it. I hope to catch the repeats. Sort of makes "Frontier House" look like a walk in the park. This is the description from their website. Surviving the Iron Age This program brings history to life by exploring what daily life was like in the past. In this four-part series, 17 British "time travelers" volunteer to live for seven weeks as their ancestors did millennia before. They live in roundhouses in remote western Wales, cooking, hunting and gathering, and maintaining their settlement as ancient Celts did. Their early optimism is quickly challenged not only by the rigorous lifestyle, but by unexpected issues such as severe illness, dissatisfaction with their chosen leader, and deep conflicts among group members. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 19:00:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26504 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:00:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GMx33Y023007; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GMx1GY028234; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GMwEGY027841 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:58:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021016225813.PNOU459.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:58:13 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age Message-ID: <3DADFD14.19028.105FAA30@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:58:12 +0100 Status: RO On 16 Oct 2002 at 18:52, Katy Bishop wrote: > > Has anyone run across this series: "Surviving the Iron Age" on PBS? A > friend caught it last night and mentioned it to me, I missd it. I > hope to catch the repeats. Watched the program, read the book. It's quite fun, but tells you far more about modern psychology and food hygiene than it does about the Iron Age. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 19:26:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26624 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GNQ33Y024750; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GNQ0GY009962; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9GNPBGY009589 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.46.2f923ff8 (4560) for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:24:51 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <46.2f923ff8.2adf4f43@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_46.2f923ff8.2adf4f43_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Subject: [h-cost] 14th Century Textile Prices Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:24:51 EDT Status: RO --part1_46.2f923ff8.2adf4f43_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps this subject was covered in your previous discussions (I'm still going through the archives), but I thought I would post this info anyway. Jeffrey L. Singman and Will McLean give a sampling of prices for goods and services in 14th Century England in their book "Daily Life in Chaucer's England" including the approx. cost for wool and linen. Of course prices fluctuate by time and place so these can only be approximate. Wool, fine (1 yard) 4s. Wood, second grade (1 yard) 2s. Linen (1 yard) 6d. Canvas (12 ells) 3s. 9 1/2d. A shilling (s.) is worth 12 pence (d.) A knight might make 2s. per day, a carpenter 4 1/2d per day and an Agricultural Laborer (male) 8d. at harvest or 3-4d. at other seasons. A Female Agricultural Laborer might make 2d. per day. So linen is 25% of the cost of second grade wool and 12 1/2% of the cost of fine wool which certainly explains its popular choice (apart from its textile properties) for linings, cheap wall hangings, household linen and underwear. The book contains references for this data if anyone is interested. Lisa --part1_46.2f923ff8.2adf4f43_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps this subject was covered in your previous discussions (I'm still going through the archives), but I thought I would post this info anyway.  Jeffrey L. Singman and Will McLean give a sampling of prices for goods and services in 14th Century England in their book "Daily Life in Chaucer's England" including the approx. cost for wool and linen.  Of course prices fluctuate by time and place so these can only be approximate.

Wool, fine (1 yard) 4s.
Wood, second grade (1 yard) 2s.
Linen (1 yard) 6d.
Canvas (12 ells) 3s. 9 1/2d.

A shilling (s.) is worth 12 pence (d.) A knight might make 2s. per day, a carpenter 4 1/2d per day and an Agricultural Laborer (male) 8d. at harvest or 3-4d. at other seasons.  A Female Agricultural Laborer might make 2d. per day.

So linen is 25% of the cost of second grade wool and 12 1/2% of the cost of fine wool which certainly explains its popular choice (apart from its textile properties) for linings, cheap wall hangings, household linen and underwear. 

The book contains references for this data if anyone is interested.

Lisa --part1_46.2f923ff8.2adf4f43_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 20:33:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26877 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:33:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H0W33Y029020; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H0W1GY004298; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H0V1GY003998 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0395.dialsprint.net ([63.184.225.141] helo=faucet.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 181yZ1-0001yD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:31:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3DAE1285.2995F755@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress stand question References: <006401c2751a$2b8967e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:29:40 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Well my latest costumer is a large woman, and i wondered dont you think i > could pad up the dress stand to the large size? If i baught some of that > quilting material you use to put inside when you quilt. I could make some > layers on top of each other and get the large meassures? I usually use batting with a layer of Ace bandage wrapped over the top (spiral wrap, like a mummy). (Ace bandage, in case that doesn't translate well, is a reusable, non-adhesive elastic bandage like you would wrap around a sprained ankle. It comes in rolls of several widths--I prefer 4" or 6" wide.) The bandage gives a firmer outer surface and is better to pin into if you need to. I find it much easier to control the measurements this way. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Oct 16 23:47:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27666 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:47:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H3kF3Y011580; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:46:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H3k6GY000898; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:46:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f28.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H3jDGY000657 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:45:08 -0700 Received: from 210.254.151.98 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:45:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.254.151.98] From: "April Hala" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2002 03:45:08.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[96417300:01C2758F] Subject: [h-cost] Butterick's Historical Costume Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:45:07 +0000 Status: RO
Hi, I am new to this list, and I'm hoping some of the good people here can advise me.  I am interested in the following Butterick patterns, and I'm wondering what I would have to change in them to make them perfectly historically-accurate
 
#3012 - Bustle costume
#6693 - Civil War ball-sytle gown
#6694 - Civil War day gown
 
Could someone give me some suggestions?  Thanks!
 
April

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Click Here _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 00:59:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28019 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:59:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H4t33Y015069; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H4t0sc018072; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13806.mail.yahoo.com (web13806.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9H4scsc017946 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021017045437.28735.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.178.140.67] by web13806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:54:37 PDT From: Jonna Hayden Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Hmmm... I'm working on a 1561 Venetian gown--very plain, but the sleeves!! It's all Bella's fault! The sleeves have this outrageous cutwork motif that I'm trying to recreate. It should take most of winter to get the parts laid out, cut out, and satin stiched. Perfect project for cuddling up to my sewing machine. Jonna --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Something I said in a reply to another message made me > wonder....Does > anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, long > fall/winter > projects? I'm not necessarily referring to things that > have to be done > for a specific winter event, but something to while away > the long, dark > hours many of us are facing with oncoming winter. > I'm planning on working on lots of research (using the > lovely books I > bought in Ireland and England), more lace-making, > finishing my blackwork > shift, and making some 13th and 14th century dresses, > just using fabric > from my stash. Oh...and finishing some late 18th c. > lower/middle class > clothes. > So, what are the rest of you planning? > --sue > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 01:03:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28055 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:03:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H5213Y015460; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H521sc019872; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H51lsc019787 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:01:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.6.2fef65 (4214) for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:01:38 -0400 (EDT) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <6.2fef65.2adf9e32@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress stand question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_6.2fef65.2adf9e32_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:01:38 EDT Status: RO --part1_6.2fef65.2adf9e32_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Ace bandage, what an excellent idea!!! thx Melanie. Lisa --part1_6.2fef65.2adf9e32_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Ace bandage, what an excellent idea!!!

thx Melanie.

Lisa --part1_6.2fef65.2adf9e32_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 01:03:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28059 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:03:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H5303Y015521; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H530sc020116; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f198.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H52Csc019899 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:02:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:02:07 -0700 Received: from 24.55.6.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:02:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.55.6.126] From: "Maggie Secara" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2002 05:02:07.0637 (UTC) FILETIME=[57B02450:01C2759A] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:02:06 -0700 Status: RO Basically that's true of all these "forward into the past" type shows. We're watching "The Ship" thisd week, which while wobnderful in its way, has many of the same characteristics. Thankfully the volunteers aren't in costume and aren't trying to recreate the life on Capt Cooks's "Endeavour" in painful detail. They're eating the same diet, and doing the same work, and attempting to navigate with period restrictions. But that's about the limit. At least 6 of the crew are professionals. (It would be impossible to sail this ship with a whole crew of complete novices, after all.) And this time the handful of middle-aged historians are working along side instead of observing from a distance! In that way, it's really more honest that 1800 House or Frontier House or whatever. And as always, it's kind of fun to watch how surprised the experts are at things which many re-creation/re-enactment folks would have understood without thinking. Or so we believe. ;) This one's better than average. On the History Channel this week. Cheers, MaggiRos ~The Elizabethan World is at http://ren.dm.net >From: "Jane Williams" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:58:12 +0100 > >On 16 Oct 2002 at 18:52, Katy Bishop wrote: > > > > > Has anyone run across this series: "Surviving the Iron Age" on PBS? A > > friend caught it last night and mentioned it to me, I missd it. I > > hope to catch the repeats. > >Watched the program, read the book. It's quite fun, >but tells you far more about modern psychology and >food hygiene than it does about the Iron Age. > > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 01:17:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28111 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:17:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H5H13Y016084; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H5H1sc023456; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H5Gnsc023397 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:16:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id WAA09751 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:37:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200210170537.WAA09751@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > It has three separate laces, one just for the 2 pairs of > holes at the waist, one for all the 5 pairs above that, and one for all the > 6 pairs below that. I don't think this is period (for any period), but it > means that the waist lacing doesn't gap and that the abdominal lacing is > never too tight. It has about two inches of 'spring' in back. Actually, it's period for edwardian S-shaped and straight-front corsets. Otherwise, you run the risk of having it too tight (and somewhat deformed looking) at the hip. I think I actually had mine laced with the four middle pairs eyelets as the waist, as mine was a straight-front style. Even when I was very thin, I didn't need to add padding at the hip and ribcage, which was fairly normal for that sort of corset. It helped create the illusion of a tiny waist without having to be laced extremely tight. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 01:20:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28121 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:20:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H5K23Y016209; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H5K2sc024149; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H5JLsc023987 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:19:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id WAA09765 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:40:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200210170540.WAA09765@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: > > There was a legend/tradition at my school, which started in the 1870s, > that sometimes some of the older girls in their corsets would start to > faint in morning assembly, and the headmistress would bellow from the > platform "Mary Smith (or whoever), CONTROL yourself!" - the implication > being that they were swaying more out of affectation than real physical > distress. If they were standing, and expected to be still for more than maybe 20 minutes, they were probably fainting from circulation problems rather than the corsets. This is why soldiers on guard march from time to time, otherwise they'd keel over. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 02:16:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00500 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:16:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H6E13Y018199; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H6E0sc006287; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H6DJsc006162 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.103.45]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMC42310; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:12:23 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <006901c275a4$d5769540$2d674ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021016115725.00c95b10@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:15:07 +0100 Status: RO >I can't bend at the waist very well in the thing, which means I can't drive to and from dance events while wearing it, but it does the job of a sports bra very nicely I can drive happily in my corset & bustle, I'm a bit baffled as why do you bend at the waist when driving ? I've also gorge walked in mine & can do most things although there is some lose of lung capacity if you are fit you don't tend to need to breath very heavily anyway when walking, climbing etc. I've yet to ride in mine one day :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 02:28:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04822 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:28:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H6S23Y018668; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H6S1sc009255; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H6RDsc009048 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.103.45]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMC42571; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:26:19 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <014101c275a6$c7dd8680$2d674ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:31:08 +0100 Status: RO I know one of the guys who was on the program, bear in mind like all these programs, what we see is not the whole story but the bits the producers think would make good telly. Having said that more often than not they reject re-enactment loons, probably because they would not make god telly as they would find many of the recreations quite easy Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 04:03:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03675 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:03:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8333Y021571; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H831sc028180; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9H82ssc028152 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021017080248.23824.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:02:48 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:02:48 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Katy Bishop wrote: > > Has anyone run across this series: "Surviving the Iron Age" on PBS? A > friend caught it last night and mentioned it to me, I missd it. I hope > to catch the repeats. Sort of makes "Frontier House" look like a walk > in the park. Watched part of the programme, thought it was utterly ludicruous, but interesting for what Jane said: modern psychology and modern people's idiocy, particularly regarding food hygiene. I mean come on, who in their right minds with an iota of common sense would eat a half raw chicken? The clothing was awful, worst jubbly standard I'd say, but that's just me, don't listen to the woman with the portable soapbox *G* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 04:23:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27152 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:23:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8N13Y022095; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8N0sc002361; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8MMsc002240 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:22:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9H8OSB19810.; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:24:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:22:15 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9H8MMsc002240 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:21:39 +0100 Status: RO I would second Jane's comments. The series was on British TV about 18 months ago and my reenactor friends were very sarcastic about the participants' attempts to cook a chicken (which made people ill). There was more about their personal squabbles than about Iron Age life. I remember enjoying a similar series 20 years ago, in which the participants (including the future parents of a young girl in the new series) lived for a whole year in an Iron Age roundhouse. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> jane@williams.nildram.co.uk 10/16/02 11:58pm >>> On 16 Oct 2002 at 18:52, Katy Bishop wrote: > > Has anyone run across this series: "Surviving the Iron Age" on PBS? A > friend caught it last night and mentioned it to me, I missd it. I > hope to catch the repeats. Watched the program, read the book. It's quite fun, but tells you far more about modern psychology and food hygiene than it does about the Iron Age. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 04:31:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07089 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:31:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8V13Y022333; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8V0sc003897; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8U6sc003726 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9H8WDB20775.; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:32:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:30:00 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9H8U6sc003726 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:29:25 +0100 Status: RO I didn't say I "couldn't breathe" in my corset (I've carried equipment up and down steep hills in it), but it does restrict the deep breathing from the diaphragm that woodwind players need. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> seamstrix@juno.com 10/16/02 05:38pm >>> I have spent a good portion of my life wearing corsets of various sorts and I rarely have any trouble breathing in them. As Nicole has observed, you do indeed breathe differently in a corset, but it shouldn't make you unable to breathe. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 04:45:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21168 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:45:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8j13Y022671; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8j1sc006519; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8icsc006432 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id C234B1E1B73; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:44:35 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021017084435.C234B1E1B73@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:44:35 BST Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote : > I would second Jane's comments. The series was on British TV about 18 months ago > and my reenactor friends were very sarcastic about the participants' attempts > to cook a chicken (which made people ill). There was more about their personal > squabbles than about Iron Age life. Costume content: I don't remember much about the actual clothes, they looked at least possible to someone who knows little about the period. But the shoes! They were supplied with assorted "period" shoes, which were *not* made to fit as far as I could tell, and soon swapped them for wellies on safety grounds. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 04:52:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00352 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:52:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8q03Y022908; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H8q0sc007866; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9H8pBsc007732 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:51:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021017085111.61569.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:51:11 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021017084435.C234B1E1B73@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:51:11 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > > Costume content: I don't remember much about the actual clothes, they looked > at least possible to someone who knows little about the period. But the > shoes! They were supplied with assorted "period" shoes, which were *not* made > to fit as far as I could tell, and soon swapped them for wellies on safety > grounds. Wellies??? *splutters coffee with laughter* I stopped watching at that point, I should have continued, that's just too hilarious. It would have been SO erasy to make their own shoes, there are bog finds from the period, roughly. Lovely lil soft and fitting sandals... They should have just looked a tad closer at the Danish tannined (is that a word?) finds, I am sure between those and the continental germanic one sthey would have found some suitable clothing. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 05:22:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12922 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:22:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H9M23Y023780; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H9M1sc011506; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H9LPsc011394 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-122-160.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.122.160]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMC50973; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:20:30 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <004f01c275be$dc9fee60$a07a4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:23:31 +0100 Status: RO >I mean come on, who in their right minds with an iota of common sense would eat a half raw chicken? People who don't cook which is plenty in modern standards, my son Alex had a school psyco test options If cooking a cake how do you prefer to learn 1) Somebody shows you 2) Read the instructions on the packet 3) read the instruction then somebody shows you As he said, I prefer to use a recipe out of a recipe book, but that option didn't exsist Crazy ! >The clothing was awful, worst jubbly standard I'd say Well yes but the participants can't be blamed for that. I talked to the productiopn company as they expressed an interest in my family taking part, after I asked several practical questions, like can I take my own fire steel what is the firewood situation, I decided it was going to be impossible to live reaslistically so withdrew my interest Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 05:27:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12929 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:27:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H9R13Y023886; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H9R1sc012713; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H9QWsc012604 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:26:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-122-160.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.122.160]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMC51571; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:25:38 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <005901c275bf$9405b300$a07a4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:28:38 +0100 Status: RO >I stopped watching at that point, I should have continued, that's just too hilarious. It would have been SO erasy to make their own shoes, there are bog finds from the period, roughly. Lovely lil soft and fitting sandals... Whilst wellies are incorrect and they could have made shoes as you describe, I understand the wellies were on health grounds of trench foot , and turn shoes are not good it wet weather, the winter that year was particularly bad. In fairness modern feet generally can't take wet muddy conditions without protection that takes years of use. OTOH even modern sghoes don't stop the wet & mud, but you can eventually get used to it (I use boots in such conditions in preferance as wellies get sucked off) but you do need to dry out in between Really mud & feet (particularly very early footwear) is an interesting thing, which nobody addresses fully in reconstructions re-enactment or otherwise Mel (NOT looking forward to what looks like another wet winter) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 05:29:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12934 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:29:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H9T03Y023931; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H9T0sc013102; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H9Sosc013066 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-122-160.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.122.160]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMC51808; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:27:35 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <005d01c275bf$da14e140$a07a4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:30:36 +0100 Status: RO >they looked at least possible to someone who knows little about the period They could look the part to the average punter I guess & there is parctically no British textile evidence for the period, but looking at continental evidence they programmes clothes were of the UG the caveman variety rather than the sophisticated weave avalible evidence suggest there might well have been Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 07:53:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13529 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:53:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HBq63Y027718; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:52:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HBq1sc012014; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HBppsc011984 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m43.in-tch.com [216.166.191.43]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9HBafL09829 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAEA5D6.F1C561D7@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:58:14 -0600 Status: RO Mmmmmm...Mine are mostly smaller, "gotta get done" projects, like most of you. If I had time enough for a major project, I really think I'd like to work on some 18th c. stuff--a set of half-boned stays, a shift, a quilted petticoat, and a pet-en-l'air. I've got patterns from classes I took through Penny's website, but I need to size them up a bit--the pattern designer was quite generous with her size range, but I need to nudge them some in my (large) direction. I've got this lovely, lovely, light, crisp peach silk that my uninformed self thinks would be just *yummy* for the outer part of the petticoat. And I have linen for the shift, although I'd need to acquire linen and that nice fake whalebone for the stays, and fabrics for the jacket. I'm still looking for some linen light-weight enough to make sleeve ruffles for--I've always wanted some, so's I could do that amazing pulled-thread embroidery you see in the 18th c. (drool, drool) --sue Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > Hm. Last winter I made that quilted wool petticoat... But so far, no BIG > plans for this winter. I have a bunch of smaller projects to work on, > though; need to make an 18th c. man's wool coat, a wool tartan jacket, > finish my hubby's wool tartan jacket and trews... the list goes on and > on. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 08:07:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13576 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:07:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HC613Y028087; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HC60sc015057; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HC5Osc014901 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m43.in-tch.com [216.166.191.43]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9HBoFL13450 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAEA904.6FF578EC@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion References: <4.3.1.2.20021016115725.00c95b10@mail.frys.com> <006901c275a4$d5769540$2d674ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:11:48 -0600 Status: RO Right off the top of my head, I'd say it might be difficulties getting into the car...rhe way in which my 16th c. corset stiffens my torso, I find it difficult to get in and out, and I'm pressed all the way back against the slightly-reclining seats, which don't bother me when corset-free, but are awful with one on. Also, the sheer number and weught of all the skirts I wear in such a case all end up scooped into my lap, which makes it difficult to manuver the steering wheel and put my seatbelt on! --sue Melanie Wilson wrote: > > I can drive happily in my corset & bustle, I'm a bit baffled as why do you > bend at the waist when driving ? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 08:17:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13597 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:17:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HCG13Y028512; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HCG0sc017217; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HCF9sc017007 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew (213-78-122-12.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.122.12]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMC66980; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:14:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <028201c275d7$208e2480$a07a4ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:17:12 +0100 Status: RO >Right off the top of my head, I'd say it might be difficulties getting into the car...rhe way in which my 16th c. corset stiffens my torso, I find it difficult to get in and out, and I'm pressed all the way back against the slightly-reclining seats, which don't bother me when corset-free, but are awful with one on. Also, the sheer number and weught of all the skirts I wear in such a case all end up scooped into my lap, which makes it difficult to manuver the steering wheel and put my seatbelt on! I've found I need to adjust my seat to a more upright position, the skirts are OK but then I drive a big 4x4 so there is plenty of room I guess :) Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 10:30:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14229 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HES33Y005206; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HES1sc025513; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HERFsc025125 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H440080JQT99T@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:27:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DAEC87F.5060802@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fall and Winter projects Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:26:07 -0500 Status: RO Catherine Kinsey and I are going to work on making a corded plus size Elizabethan corset. I really enjoyed the project I worked on and want to explore other corded support items. Now all we have to do is find the spare time when we can get together.. :D -- -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 10:45:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14309 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:45:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HEi33Y006307; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HEi1sc002280; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HEhRsc002052 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.196]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D94735EEFF6 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:43:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003b01c275eb$c6463750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <006401c2751a$2b8967e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3DAE1285.2995F755@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress stand question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:45:01 +0200 Status: RO Hello Melanie. This was a very good idea. Thankyou soo much for sharing. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Schuessler" To: Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 3:29 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress stand question > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > Well my latest costumer is a large woman, and i wondered dont you think i > > could pad up the dress stand to the large size? If i baught some of that > > quilting material you use to put inside when you quilt. I could make some > > layers on top of each other and get the large meassures? > > I usually use batting with a layer of Ace bandage wrapped over the top > (spiral wrap, like a mummy). (Ace bandage, in case that doesn't > translate well, is a reusable, non-adhesive elastic bandage like you > would wrap around a sprained ankle. It comes in rolls of several > widths--I prefer 4" or 6" wide.) The bandage gives a firmer outer > surface and is better to pin into if you need to. I find it much easier > to control the measurements this way. > > Melanie Schuessler > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 10:57:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14485 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HEu43Y007228; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HEu2sc007639; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HEtgsc007408 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4400KFPS4OA2@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:55:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DAECF2A.3010109@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Padding up a dress form.. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:54:34 -0500 Status: RO Since most of my corsets I create are for individuals that are several sizes larger than the largest dress form, I upsize them all the time. I use foam rubber sheeting for the underneath layers, and cotton batting for the last layer or two. I purchased foam sheeting (it is polyurethane foam rubber you would use in cushions and matresses) in a variety of widths from 1/4 inch all the way up to 1 inch thick, and cotton quilt batting that only comes in one thickness as far as I can tell. The different thicknesses gives me more leeway in getting the proper size. I usually pad the dress form in sections ie.. hips, waist/trunk, breasts, shoulders. The main reason for this is most larger women do not come anywhere near the industry standard of 10 to 12 inches from breast to waist, then waist to hips. (36/24/36)... or some arbitrary amount like that. So padding the entire form with a layer or two of stuff would not translate properly. I set my adjustable dress form to its largest size and begin wrapping, measuring as I go. I have foam strips that run from about 12 inches wide, to as small as 2 inches wide, to accomodate the shape I am working on. I have large teardrop shapes for the breast area, shoulder shapes for the shoulders etc and I use foam gussets to mold it around the hips and cut outs to conform it to the smaller areas.When I get within one inch of the size I want I then wrap the form with the cotton batting. You can sort of stretch it to make it go over the hips/curves of the form and sort of compress it for the smaller areas. I have big elastic bands that I have made to hold the entire thing together as I work. I then cover this with a tight spandex tube I made to give it a more workable surface. I have different sizes of them. I also use old shoulder pads a girlfriend gave me to help mold the breast area. Since dress forms only come in a size "b" cup, I do a lot of adjusting in that area to get the dimension I need. I have been thinking lately of building my own dress form, a sort of basic shape with no breasts, and slight hips that starts at a standard size 24..and then using molds to create foam shapes to get what I need. It would save me so much time in the long run from trying to upsize the smaller ones. Probably more information than anyone needed... :> Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 11:09:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14535 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:09:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HF833Y008238; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HF82sc013382; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HF7Tsc013108 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021017150724.PQKJ20726.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:07:24 +0000 Message-ID: <003d01c275ee$e38b0400$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick's Historical Costume Patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:07:19 -0700 Status: RO Hi April and welcome to the list! The first thing I'll say is that you will get MUCH better results if you use some of the more historically-minded pattern lines. For Civil War era, I'd recommend Past Patterns (http://www.pastpatterns.com) and for bustle era, Truly Victorian (http://www.trulyvictorian.com). The next thing I'll say is that if you do want to stick with the Butterick patterns (or any other major pattern line eg Vogue or Simplicity), that you should compare the patterns with period photos and fashion plates. An excellent online resource is the Timeline of Costume History (http://www.costumes.org/pages/timelinepages/timeline.htm) from the Costumer's Manifesto. You should also look at the following books: _Dressed for the Photographer_ by Joan Severa, _Victorian Fashions and Costumes from Harper's Bazar, 1867-1898_ by Stella Blum, and _Victorian and Edwardian Fashion: A Photographic Survey_ by Alison Gernsheim. Finally, on to the specific patterns. The main advice I have would be to come up with your trim/decoration ideas. I've seen people wearing #3012 made up exactly as the pattern indicates, and it's so easy to spot that it's a modern commercial pattern just because we've all seen it so many times! #3012 - Bustle costume (http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3012=x&TI=10 013&pageNum=2&M=&UK=20243554) -- this looks to me like it's aiming to be 1880's. The main, glaring issues with this one that I spot is the front drapery on the skirt looks much too short to me. Take a look at vintage photos and fashion plates (eg http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/july85.jpg) for some ideas on how you could redrape this piece. Also, while I can't see the pattern shapes, the back drape over the bustle looks weird to me (and I'm wondering what the pattern tells you to use as a bustle?). Sorry I can't give more concrete examples. The trim on the right hand model looks okay to me -- they definitely used lots of ruches, again look at photos and fashion plates for ideas. The one on the left looks very modern bridal to me, although they definitely did use fake flowers -- that's just a personal preference. #6693 - Civil War ball-style gown (http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.6693=x&TI=10 013&pageNum=6&M=&UK=20243554) -- this is a guess which I'll defer to the Civil War experts on the list, but my first reaction is NO RICKRACK! Otherwise I don't spot anything too glaring with this one. Again, look at period photos/fashion plates for design ideas. #6694 - Civil War day gown (http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.6694=x&TI=10 013&pageNum=6&M=&UK=20243554) -- this photo is fuzzy, so a bit difficult to spot any glaring errors. What catches my eye would be: you'd want to use the high neckline unless this is a dinner dress, the armscye should probably be dropped off the shoulder a bit, I'm not convinced about the shorter oversleeves on the white dress (I've usually seen the oversleeves a bit longer). Otherwise looks passable to me -- CW experts? Good luck on your projects, and keep us informed as to how they go! This list is a great resource so I'd encourage you to post your questions as they come up. - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: April Hala To: h-costume@net.indra.com Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Butterick's Historical Costume Patterns Hi, I am new to this list, and I'm hoping some of the good people here can advise me. I am interested in the following Butterick patterns, and I'm wondering what I would have to change in them to make them perfectly historically-accurate #3012 - Bustle costume #6693 - Civil War ball-sytle gown #6694 - Civil War day gown Could someone give me some suggestions? Thanks! April Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! Click Here _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 11:15:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14578 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:15:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HFE33Y008829; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HFE2FA016531; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gwdomain.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HFDPFA016229 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:13:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by gwdomain.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:13:24 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:13:13 -0500 Status: RO Catherine Kinsey and I are going to work on making a corded plus size Elizabethan corset. I really enjoyed the project I worked on and want to explore other corded support items. Now all we have to do is find the spare time when we can get together.. :D -- Linda Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is to say, Linda's making it and I'm doing the handwork :). I *hate* fitting on myself! Faire is over, when do you want to start :)? I have a whole stack of projects for the hubby (Victorian/folk Santa, Troll, New doublet) but only the Santa one has a real deadline so it will probably get priority. Once I have the corset I want to make myself one of Drea's Flemish working women outfits for which I am slowly finding the linen and wool. I am already planning on doing one version all linen for our humid midwestern summers but will have a wool layer for cooler days. But what I really want to have time for this winter is doing bobbin lace!!! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 11:56:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14729 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:56:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HFt73Y012492; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HFt1FA008410; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m3.jersey.juno.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9HFs4FA007901 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"dBh/I51fsHv9NCoYYJioTO5CB6rsJdZ7NvzfjM4iWxmewyXoLUBA2Q=="> Received: (from spynnere@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HFB72D38; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:53:51 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,11-14 From: Elizabeth A Heckert Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest/'Iron Age' question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:53:10 -0400 Status: RO On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:44:01 -0600 h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > > Message: 11 > From: "Melanie Wilson" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age > I understand the wellies were on health grounds of trench foot , What is 'trench foot', and (costume content) what shoes were used instead of wellies to protect against it? Or is it a case of the shoes did not protect against it, and something else was done? Thank you! Elizabeth ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 12:38:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18996 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:38:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HGb23Y016067; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HGb1FA001261; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HGaOFA000917 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:36:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.244.102.118.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.244.102.118] helo=earthlink.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 182DdG-0007ap-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:36:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3DAEE704.4090305@earthlink.net> From: A F Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] mail bouncers References: <20021016095735.K10801@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:36:20 -0400 Status: RO I have a stranger one for you... I have a hotmail account that was subscribed to this list until 4 years ago. I don't use it much any more, but keep it because every so often someone I know will use it... I just received a digest from May 1998 in that account! They put it on my safe list, too... not in the junk mail, where everything is supposed to go unless vetted. But you may still be in my address book - have to check that out. Well, I was subscribed then, at that address, to the digest. Has this been out in the ether for 4 years? I wish they'd bounce the 100 or so spam I get a day... Anne Elizabeth Lear wrote: >Hotmail is bouncing email from this list to all hotmail.com accounts. >If you know one of these people, please contact them and ask them to >complain to hotmail. Thanks. > > >----- Forwarded message from postmaster@mail.hotmail.com ----- > >Delivery to the following recipients failed. > > maggiros@hotmail.com > misssalchow@hotmail.com > audreybmorin2@hotmail.com > noxcat@hotmail.com > kprack@hotmail.com > alexfrazier@hotmail.com > jbmcardle@hotmail.com > kimie205@hotmail.com > distantdesigns@hotmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 12:43:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19009 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HGgX3e016638; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HGZ4FA029955; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9HGXRFA029145 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:33:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Or6psiWChnYax8dcz076jSA="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HFB99KP7; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:32:43 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion Message-ID: <20021017.093206.-113583.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:02:55 +0000 Status: RO It's also why singers are told to never lock their knees. All that enriched breathing and standing in one place with your knees locked is an almost sure-fire way to faint, with or without a corset. Arlys > If they were standing, and expected to be still for more than maybe > 20 minutes, they were probably fainting from circulation problems > rather than the corsets. This is why soldiers on guard march from time to > time, otherwise they'd keel over. > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 15:47:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20151 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:47:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJkA3Y003224; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJk1h6013527; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJjdh6013310 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:45:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 182GaQ-0007uO-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:45:38 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest/'Iron Age' question References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:45:04 +0100 Status: RO Trench foot is a very unpleasant (fungal?) condition that comes from having feet soaking wet and unable to breathe for long periods of time. It gets its name from the First World War battle fields where the troops were stuck in muddy trenches for weeks and months in wet boots and it became a real problem. I imagine it wasn't a problem in earlier periods because either they would have gone somewhere with shelter, or when it was very wet they were more likely to go barefoot - still get very sore feet, but maybe not the same infections and nasties. Jean Elizabeth A Heckert wrote > >On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:44:01 -0600 h-costume-request@indra.com writes: >> >> Message: 11 >> From: "Melanie Wilson" >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age > >> I understand the wellies were on health grounds of trench foot , > > What is 'trench foot', and (costume content) what shoes were used >instead of wellies to protect against it? Or is it a case of the shoes >did not protect against it, and something else was done? > > Thank you! > > Elizabeth > >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 15:48:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20157 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:48:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJlF3Y003340; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:47:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJlFh6014232; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:47:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJjgh6013329 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 182GaT-0007uj-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:45:41 +0100 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:38:06 +0100 Status: RO Totally agree - Surviving the Iron Age was really dire. Not only do they reject re-enactors, but they seem to have rejected anyone who was even a competent barbecue cook. Interesting one we are getting at present is "Warrior School". They take small groups of emergency services personnel or military, usually half British, half US stationed here, for 3 days, get them to live as per the selected period and teach them to fight in the relevant style, then put them in competitions (not always direct combat) against each other. So far we have had Roman gladiators, Vikings and Roman soldiers. This one is good because they are already physically fit and have some combat or defence training, and they kit them out so they can do what's expected of them. They obviously have a good range of borrowed kit, so they can find things that fit at least reasonably well, and people to show them how to wear it and the tricks for coping with cold and wet. The Roman soldiers (at Hadrian's Wall) started off with only caligae, but then they got a delivery of socks - based on some of the letters they have found asking relatives to send more socks! (They were just modern socks, but it was a nice touch) Jean Kate M Bunting wrote >I would second Jane's comments. The series was on British TV about 18 >months ago and my reenactor friends were very sarcastic about the >participants' attempts to cook a chicken (which made people ill). There >was more about their personal squabbles than about Iron Age life. >I remember enjoying a similar series 20 years ago, in which the >participants (including the future parents of a young girl in the new >series) lived for a whole year in an Iron Age roundhouse. > > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >>>> jane@williams.nildram.co.uk 10/16/02 11:58pm >>> >On 16 Oct 2002 at 18:52, Katy Bishop wrote: > >> >> Has anyone run across this series: "Surviving the Iron Age" on PBS? A >> friend caught it last night and mentioned it to me, I missd it. I >> hope to catch the repeats. > >Watched the program, read the book. It's quite fun, >but tells you far more about modern psychology and >food hygiene than it does about the Iron Age. > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 15:52:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24234 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:52:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJn63Y003526; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJn4h6015211; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:49:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJmSh6014879 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-119-45.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.119.45]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALZ12529; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:46:21 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <013201c27616$b51c8b20$b36c4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest/'Iron Age' question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:50:52 +0100 Status: RO >What is 'trench foot', I'm not 100% on this but I believe it is where you foot goes soggy (like if you swim too long ?) and eventually the skin cracks & becomes infected >and (costume content) what shoes were used instead of wellies to protect against it? Well in the WWW1 trenches they tried to keep their socks dry to prevent it. In earlier times I dome really know, but I do wonder if you get it is you go barefoot, I know my Dad (from an Linconshire farming family was barefoot most of his childhood) > Or is it a case of the shoes did not protect against it, and something else was done? I wish I knew I've not been able to find an answer :( Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 15:59:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24299 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:59:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJw33Y004367; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJw1h6019734; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HJvGh6019279 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-119-45.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.119.45]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALZ13035; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:55:09 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <018d01c27617$f00ceee0$b36c4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest/'Iron Age' question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:01:09 +0100 Status: RO >I imagine it wasn't a problem in earlier periods because either they would have gone somewhere with shelter, How do you mean ? If you have farms to attend toi you still get wet & muddy feet, even in my centrally heated house I need three pairs of boots on the go to have dry boots to get into > or when it was very wet they were more likely to go barefoot - still get very sore feet, but maybe not the same infections and nasties I tend to go barefoot in re-enactment situations of mud (and from time to time generally & don't get sore feet (they have got hard) When I had a mole removed from my sole the surgeon complained I had skin like a rhino :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 16:27:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24448 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:27:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HKO73Y006717; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HKO4h6003856; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f138.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HKNBh6003325 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:23:06 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:23:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick's Historical Costume Patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_6018_1f12_5447" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2002 20:23:06.0290 (UTC) FILETIME=[00697120:01C2761B] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:23:06 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_6018_1f12_5447 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There is a great sight that has reviews of most major pattern lines. I used it to weed out those I WILL NOT consider and narrow down those that I will look into further. http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/index.html Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >From: "April Hala" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@net.indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Butterick's Historical Costume Patterns >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:45:07 +0000 > _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------=_NextPart_000_6018_1f12_5447 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from server.indra.com ([204.144.142.2]) by mc2-f20.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:49:59 -0700 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H3km3Y011605; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:46:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H3kfsc001063; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:46:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f28.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9H3jDGY000657 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:45:08 -0700 Received: from 210.254.151.98 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:45:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.254.151.98] From: "April Hala" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2002 03:45:08.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[96417300:01C2758F] Subject: [h-cost] Butterick's Historical Costume Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:45:07 +0000 Return-Path: h-costume-admin@indra.com
Hi, I am new to this list, and I'm hoping some of the good people here can advise me.  I am interested in the following Butterick patterns, and I'm wondering what I would have to change in them to make them perfectly historically-accurate
 
#3012 - Bustle costume
#6693 - Civil War ball-sytle gown
#6694 - Civil War day gown
 
Could someone give me some suggestions?  Thanks!
 
April

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Click Here _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_000_6018_1f12_5447-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 17:36:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24792 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:36:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HLZ23Y013385; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HLZ1h6011969; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HLYLh6011642 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip163.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.163]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9HLYInp007264 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021016054007.01ec29f0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping a corset in place? In-Reply-To: <20021015155157.N84783-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:46:19 -0400 Status: RO This weekend is the St. Mary's Militia Muster, at St. Mary's City, MD (early 17th c.) -- great event, I'm looking forward to it! Oh, yeah, those stays in Fashion in Detail are gorgeous... both sets! Has anyone diagnosed a specific type of costumer's insanity called 'corset fever' yet, characterized by the desire to make different styles of stays just to see how they work? The stays I'm working on don't have the boning channels showing through to the outside, so they won't look quite so interesting, but I'm going for that boned-bodice look you see in 17th c. genre art. Cheers, Mara At 03:53 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Yummy! What's this weekend? I've often wished I had enough skill, >patience and insanity to recreate those red woolen stays in Fashion in >Detail...they are really something. Actually, I really want to recreate >the pink V&A stays more. Tho it's still clinging precariously to the >bottom of my list of things to do. :) > >Drea > > >On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > > Sorry, Drea, should have read to the end of my mail queue first! > > > > Anyway, am working on a variant of the Effigy corset for my 1630s > > impression -- covering the outside with red wool, after sewing the boning > > channels. Thanks again for all your work :) Now if I can just get it > > done by this weekend... > > > > -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 17:51:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24947 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:51:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HLm33Y014826; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HLm17x018933; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02bw.bigpond.com (mta02bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HLlQ7x018534 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:47:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.75]) by mta02bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H45B6U00.2OQ for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:47:18 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.141 ([203.54.114.141]) by bwmam03.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 20/4009826); 18 Oct 2002 07:47:14 Message-ID: <3DB01EC2.29BECB2C@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest/'Iron Age' question References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> <018d01c27617$f00ceee0$b36c4ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:46:26 -0700 Status: RO Melanie Wilson wrote: > > or when it > was very wet they were more likely to go barefoot - still get very sore > feet, but maybe not the same infections and nasties > > I tend to go barefoot in re-enactment situations of mud (and from time to > time generally & don't get sore feet (they have got hard) When I had a mole > removed from my sole the surgeon complained I had skin like a rhino :) > I've also found it's easier to go barefoot than wear period (mediaeval) shoes when it's wet. You do get wet, cold feet, but feet dry a lot quicker when you put them near the fire than shoes do, and turnshoes don't postpone cold, wet feet for very long anyway. But then I've been going barefoot a lot since I was a child so I have pretty tough feet too. Plus, of course, there's nothing quite like the feeling of mud squishing up between your toes :-) Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 17:58:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25102 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HLw63Y015893; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HLw57x024718; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HLv67x024121 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:57:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-125-26.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.125.26]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALZ21711; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:55:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <002c01c27628$ae219100$1a7d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> <018d01c27617$f00ceee0$b36c4ed5@pavilion> <3DB01EC2.29BECB2C@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest/'Iron Age' question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:00:37 +0100 Status: RO >I've also found it's easier to go barefoot than wear period (mediaeval) shoes when it's wet. You do get wet, cold feet, but feet dry a lot quicker when you put them near the fire than shoes do, and turnshoes don't postpone cold, wet feet for very long anyway. But then I've been going barefoot a lot since I was a child so I have pretty tough feet too. My thoughts exactly :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 19:17:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25509 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:17:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNG63Y021743; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNG17x002511; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNFe7x002352 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.35]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H450090LFA2W9@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:15:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion In-reply-to: <006901c275a4$d5769540$2d674ed5@pavilion> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021017152348.04e43a90@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20021016115725.00c95b10@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:25:22 -0700 Status: RO > >I can't bend at the waist very well in the thing, which means I can't drive >to and from dance events while wearing it, but it does the job of a sports >bra very nicely > >I can drive happily in my corset & bustle, I'm a bit baffled as why do you >bend at the waist when driving ? This is more a function of the slouch-shaped car seat than anything else. There's a concavity for the middle of my back to slump into, as is the case with most car seats, and it's not any fun even without the corset, as is the case with most car seats. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 19:17:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25514 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:17:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNH03Y021805; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNH07x002923; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNGE7x002586 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alderweb.vaxxine.com (ppp157.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.157]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29101 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.0.20021017185719.00bf8620@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@pop.vaxxine.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 To: h-costume@indra.com From: David Webb In-Reply-To: References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:38:49 -0400 Status: RO Oh boy! A subject right up my alley as a Great War reenactor! Trench foot was actually a physiological condition - a slow form of frostbite, and, as Jean correctly states, caused by having cold, wet feet for prolonged periods of time. The puttees which were part of the uniform of the time, and provided support and warrmth to the lower legs, also could aggravate the condition if they were wound too tightly. Once army doctors realized it was a preventable condition, having trench foot could become a disciplinary matter. Commanding officers were held responsible for cases in their units and were supposed to conduct daily foot inspections. This might seem extreme, but the British Expeditionary Force was almost crippled by Trench foot in 1914/15- an army not only marches on its stomach... It was noted that it was more common amongst troops with bad morale - probably the men were losing their incentive to take care for themselves . It was combatted by oiling the feet with grease or whale oil, and trying to keep the feet warm and dry with frequent sock changes. These measures reduced the problem, but never eliminated it. Home for many soldiers was a wet trench in below sea level Flanders for months - rather extraordinary living conditions. There's a photograph of a bad trench foot case in one of our books - several toes are rotted off and the rest look like little gnarled roots..... Sheridan At 08:45 PM 17/10/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Trench foot is a very unpleasant (fungal?) condition that comes from >having feet soaking wet and unable to breathe for long periods of time. It >gets its name from the First World War battle fields where the troops were >stuck in muddy trenches for weeks and months in wet boots and it became a >real problem. I imagine it wasn't a problem in earlier periods because >either they would have gone somewhere with shelter, or when it was very >wet they were more likely to go barefoot - still get very sore feet, but >maybe not the same infections and nasties. > >Jean > >Elizabeth A Heckert wrote >> >>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:44:01 -0600 h-costume-request@indra.com writes: >>> >>>Message: 11 >>>From: "Melanie Wilson" >>>Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age >> >>>I understand the wellies were on health grounds of trench foot , >> >> What is 'trench foot', and (costume content) what shoes were used >>instead of wellies to protect against it? Or is it a case of the shoes >>did not protect against it, and something else was done? >> >> Thank you! >> >> Elizabeth >> >>________________________________________________________________ >>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >>Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >-- >Jean Waddie >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 19:32:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25573 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:32:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNW23Y022846; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNW17x008539; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from proxy.ea.gov.au (proxy.ea.gov.au [155.187.2.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNV07x008138 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from parkes07.ea.gov.au ([155.187.160.26]) by proxy.ea.gov.au (8.9.2/EAFWv1) with SMTP id JAA26254 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:25:14 +1000 (EST) Received: from EA-Message_Server by parkes07.ea.gov.au with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:31:25 +1000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 From: "Annette Wilson" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] dressforms Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:31:10 +1000 Status: RO I was lucky enough to find a second-hand "uniquely you" dress form with about a 42' bust, which I adapted to make a dummy of my husband. I made a fitted body cover for him (like the one that came with the dressform but for a male torso) and then padded the dressform to fit. It worked very well, and by trying the body cover on him before starting a new project, I can adjust the dummy to take account of expanding or contracting waist measurements. I would use this method again if I needed to make a custom model for another woman, because with a soft form you can start with the real body shape and then squish as necessary if you need a corsetted shape. My problem with standard, rigid, women's dressforms is that even the smallest has the same bust measurement as me, which means I can't put a corset on it because the breasts and waist are not movable or compressable. If you are interested in how the Uniquely You dressform works, a Google search will turn up several sites. Unfortunately they are not sold in Australia to the best of my knowledge and they are not cheap either. I don't know it they are available in Europe. Have fun Annette Wilson (Canberra, Australia) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 19:36:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25585 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:36:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNa23Y023148; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNa27x010281; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNZE7x009925 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA17311 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:37:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3DAF4A00.86647858@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <4.3.1.2.20020805124832.00da7670@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020808084143.00c65ca0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Costume College 2003 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:38:46 -0700 Status: RO To Kayta and others who wanted to know: Costume College has been scheduled for 2003, the first weekend of August. http://www.costumecollege.org/ Theresa Eacker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 19:44:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25615 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:44:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNg33Y023507; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNg17x012653; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns.misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNfu7x012616 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:41:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by ns.misc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA17404 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:44:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3DAF4B94.8CD573AF@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: dance boot (wasRe: [h-cost] modern ethnic garments) References: <4.3.1.2.20020805124832.00da7670@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020808084143.00c65ca0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:45:30 -0700 Status: RO To Kayta- Would this be the boot you'd be looking for(scroll down about 3 pictures) to the Adelita boot? http://www.elcharro1.com/folkloricoshoes.html Theresa Eacker Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: (Pruning) > I am currently tracking down either a maker or an importer of the boots the > 'Folklorico' (a Mexican folk dance style) dancers wear. The boots are made > in Mexico. They look just like lace-up Victorian boots because they are > still made from the same older patterns. They are built for dancing and > stomping in, out of thicker leather than 100-year-old vintage ones > are. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 19:56:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25660 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:56:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNu13Y024410; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HNu07x017866; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9HNtI7x017554 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:55:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021017235518.13734.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:55:18 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects (my apologies to those cousins from the southern hemisphere!) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021017045437.28735.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:55:18 +1000 (EST) Status: RO --- Jonna Hayden wrote: > Hmmm... > > I'm working on a 1561 Venetian gown--very plain, but > the > sleeves!! It's all Bella's fault! The sleeves have > this > outrageous cutwork motif that I'm trying to > recreate. It > should take most of winter to get the parts laid > out, cut > out, and satin stiched. Mea culpa. But when you're done make sure to take lots of photos ok? I'm going to start a garb gallery for others who have made Venetian garb to showcase their talents. :) ===== Lady Bella Lucia da Verona Innilgard, Lochac The Realm of Venus http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona Owner, Courtesan E-mail Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 20:18:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25749 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:18:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0HO3Y025712; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:17:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0HN7x024841; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:17:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0Gi7x024559 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021018001638.HJNX22897.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:16:38 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017170007.009f3b30@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fall and Winter projects In-Reply-To: <3DAEC87F.5060802@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:07:43 -0700 Status: RO I puzzled over this but finally figured it out. You guys are talking about that time of year when I can wear a sweatshirt over my short sleeved shirts. I also had to think about the mud thing. My initial response was just turn off the hose, but then I realized that you are talking about those events that happen a couple of times during my sweatshirt wearing season when there is enough precipitation to mix with unprotected soil and give mud. What the heck, it doesn't happen very often, just take your shoes off and wallow in it. As for projects, I will be making my sister a turquoise raw silk Irish dress and a saffron colored gauze leine. It is bright enough fabric to light up a small planet. She is going to wear it under her gown when she gets her PhD. I also have to make black practice tutus for my daughters ballet school. At 09:26 AM 10/17/2002 -0500, Linda J. Thompson wrote: >Catherine Kinsey and I are going to work on making a corded plus size >Elizabethan corset. I really enjoyed the project I worked on and want to >explore other corded support items. >Now all we have to do is find the spare time when we can get together.. :D >-- > >-- >Linda Thompson > >Visit www.seams-to-be.com >where Attitude is Everything > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 20:19:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25753 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:19:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0H53Y025682; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:17:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0H17x024690; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0Gi7x024560 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021018001638.HJNX22897.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:16:38 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017170007.009f3b30@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fall and Winter projects In-Reply-To: <3DAEC87F.5060802@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:07:43 -0700 Status: RO I puzzled over this but finally figured it out. You guys are talking about that time of year when I can wear a sweatshirt over my short sleeved shirts. I also had to think about the mud thing. My initial response was just turn off the hose, but then I realized that you are talking about those events that happen a couple of times during my sweatshirt wearing season when there is enough precipitation to mix with unprotected soil and give mud. What the heck, it doesn't happen very often, just take your shoes off and wallow in it. As for projects, I will be making my sister a turquoise raw silk Irish dress and a saffron colored gauze leine. It is bright enough fabric to light up a small planet. She is going to wear it under her gown when she gets her PhD. I also have to make black practice tutus for my daughters ballet school. At 09:26 AM 10/17/2002 -0500, Linda J. Thompson wrote: >Catherine Kinsey and I are going to work on making a corded plus size >Elizabethan corset. I really enjoyed the project I worked on and want to >explore other corded support items. >Now all we have to do is find the spare time when we can get together.. :D >-- > >-- >Linda Thompson > >Visit www.seams-to-be.com >where Attitude is Everything > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 20:27:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25787 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:27:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0R23Y026196; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0R17x027910; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0QN7x027680 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:26:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021018002618.HSGS11892.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:26:18 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017171026.009f95a0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021017152348.04e43a90@mail.frys.com> References: <006901c275a4$d5769540$2d674ed5@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20021016115725.00c95b10@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:17:23 -0700 Status: RO You guys are freaking me out. I tried on a corset at costume college, I assume it was a 19th century one and it totally set off my sciatica and I couldn't walk for the rest of the day. Now you tell me that I may not be able to breath in it either. Considering that I can barely breath as it is, that isn't good news. I asked my gyn if he had any opinion on 16th century corset construction. He, surprisingly, didn't. I am thinking that if I use the directions for cording it rather than using boning it might be better for me. He thought that might not give me the right kind of support. My bodice is boned and hasn't bothered my back. I can usually breath in it, but it doesn't support, as you say, my squishiness. I am also thinking that since I am 5"10" and saw 200 pounds about 15 years ago, with a bum roll, farthingale and big collar ruff, I could be extremely imposing. At 03:25 PM 10/17/2002 -0700, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> >I can't bend at the waist very well in the thing, which means I can't drive >>to and from dance events while wearing it, but it does the job of a sports >>bra very nicely >> >>I can drive happily in my corset & bustle, I'm a bit baffled as why do you >>bend at the waist when driving ? > >This is more a function of the slouch-shaped car seat than anything >else. There's a concavity for the middle of my back to slump into, as is >the case with most car seats, and it's not any fun even without the >corset, as is the case with most car seats. > > >Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( >/----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 20:30:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25808 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:30:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0U13Y026425; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0U17x028996; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0Tr7x028918 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:29:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021018002947.HRUE22897.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:29:47 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017172022.009fc1f0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20021017185719.00bf8620@pop.vaxxine.com> References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:20:52 -0700 Status: RO puttees? At 07:38 PM 10/17/2002 -0400, David Webb wrote: >Oh boy! A subject right up my alley as a Great War reenactor! > >Trench foot was actually a physiological condition - a slow form of >frostbite, and, as Jean correctly states, caused by having cold, wet feet >for prolonged periods of time. The puttees which were part of the uniform >of the time, and provided support and warrmth to the lower legs, also >could aggravate the condition if they were wound too tightly. > >Once army doctors realized it was a preventable condition, having trench >foot could become a disciplinary matter. Commanding officers were held >responsible for cases in their units and were supposed to conduct daily >foot inspections. This might seem extreme, but the British Expeditionary >Force was almost crippled by Trench foot in 1914/15- an army not only >marches on its stomach... It was noted that it was more common amongst >troops with bad morale - probably the men were losing their incentive to >take care for themselves . It was combatted by oiling the feet with grease >or whale oil, and trying to keep the feet warm and dry with frequent sock >changes. These measures reduced the problem, but never eliminated >it. Home for many soldiers was a wet trench in below sea level Flanders >for months - rather extraordinary living conditions. > >There's a photograph of a bad trench foot case in one of our books - >several toes are rotted off and the rest look like little gnarled roots..... > >Sheridan > >At 08:45 PM 17/10/2002 +0100, you wrote: >>Trench foot is a very unpleasant (fungal?) condition that comes from >>having feet soaking wet and unable to breathe for long periods of time. >>It gets its name from the First World War battle fields where the troops >>were stuck in muddy trenches for weeks and months in wet boots and it >>became a real problem. I imagine it wasn't a problem in earlier periods >>because either they would have gone somewhere with shelter, or when it >>was very wet they were more likely to go barefoot - still get very sore >>feet, but maybe not the same infections and nasties. >> >>Jean >> >>Elizabeth A Heckert wrote >>> >>>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:44:01 -0600 h-costume-request@indra.com writes: >>>> >>>>Message: 11 >>>>From: "Melanie Wilson" >>>>Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron age >>> >>>>I understand the wellies were on health grounds of trench foot , >>> >>> What is 'trench foot', and (costume content) what shoes were used >>>instead of wellies to protect against it? Or is it a case of the shoes >>>did not protect against it, and something else was done? >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>>________________________________________________________________ >>>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >>>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >>>Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >>>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >>-- >>Jean Waddie >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 20:38:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25832 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:38:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0b23Y026824; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0b17x001564; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0a17x001228 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.35]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H45000KMJ00P1@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:36:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: dance boot (wasRe: [h-cost] modern ethnic garments) In-reply-to: <3DAF4B94.8CD573AF@misc.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021017172351.00d00520@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20020805124832.00da7670@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020808084143.00c65ca0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:26:15 -0700 Status: RO Thank you. These are close, tho I've seen better (= no zipper). There's a large Mexican-American population in California, especially in San Jose (near where I live), and I keep thinking I will run into a supplier of the kind I have seen locally. >Would this be the boot you'd be looking for(scroll down about 3 >pictures) to the Adelita boot? > >http://www.elcharro1.com/folkloricoshoes.html > > > I am currently tracking down either a maker or an importer of the boots the > > 'Folklorico' (a Mexican folk dance style) dancers wear. The boots are made > > in Mexico. They look just like lace-up Victorian boots because they are > > still made from the same older patterns. They are built for dancing and > > stomping in, out of thicker leather than 100-year-old vintage ones Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 20:38:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25837 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:38:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0bC3Y026843; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0bB7x001639; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I0a181001228 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.35]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H45000KMJ00P1@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:36:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fall and Winter projects In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017170007.009f3b30@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021017172708.00d06ba0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3DAEC87F.5060802@comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:33:39 -0700 Status: RO >I puzzled over this but finally figured it out. You guys are talking >about that time of year when I can wear a sweatshirt over my short sleeved >shirts. I also had to think about the mud thing. My initial response was >just turn off the hose, but then I realized that you are talking about >those events that happen a couple of times during my sweatshirt wearing >season when there is enough precipitation to mix with unprotected soil and >give mud. What the heck, it doesn't happen very often, just take your >shoes off and wallow in it. I think their mud is colder than our mud. Sometimes their mud freezes solid, and they can't wallow in it. Historical costume projects - mostly dolls. I'm considering a set of 'fashion babies' for my own use. I'd need a set for each living history site or fair I go to. Maybe it will be easier to show docents the difference between what they are now wearing and what I think they should be wearing if I made a 'docent-period' fashion baby for each set. Ardenwood recently got a volunteer who was willing to sew for the farm-hand docents and rangers, and they're looking much better these days. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 21:02:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25925 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:02:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1223Y028186; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1207x009184; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I11Q7x009008 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:01:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-75.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.75]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id g9I11O822376 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001801c27643$6f97c920$4b07d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <20021017233602.10265.96951.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Trench foot (was 'Iron Age' question) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:09:58 -0400 Status: RO > It gets its name from the First World War battle fields where the troops > were stuck in muddy trenches for weeks and months in wet boots and it > became a real problem. [snip] still get very sore > feet, but maybe not the same infections and nasties. Well, trench foot was more than a nasty. My great-grandfather, who was one of the few men to receive the Victoria Cross while still living, used to write to my great-grandmother of his fear at times of taking off his boots and perhaps finding his foot had come off with it. The fungal disease would often get so bad that men would loose feeling in their feet, gangrene would set in, and literally would loose their feet in their boots. More than a nasty. It was a horror. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 21:03:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25929 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:03:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I12E3Y028202; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I12D7x009237; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:02:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I11b7x009066 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:01:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip160.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.160]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9I11Ynp003025 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021017205805.00afaad0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest/'Iron Age' question In-Reply-To: References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:59:27 -0400 Status: RO Well, the key there is that one gets it if the foot can't breathe. In some early footwear it's clear the shoe was stuffed with straw, moss or other stuff to help keep that kind of thing from happening. And if you're going barefoot, well, obviously the foot can breathe (not practical for modern, tender feet, of course). -- Mara At 08:45 PM 10/17/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Trench foot is a very unpleasant (fungal?) condition that comes from >having feet soaking wet and unable to breathe for long periods of time. It >gets its name from the First World War battle fields where the troops were >stuck in muddy trenches for weeks and months in wet boots and it became a >real problem. I imagine it wasn't a problem in earlier periods because >either they would have gone somewhere with shelter, or when it was very >wet they were more likely to go barefoot - still get very sore feet, but >maybe not the same infections and nasties. > >Jean _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 21:29:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26151 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:29:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1T53Y029767; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1T27x017064; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1S77x016791 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip154.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.154]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9I1S3np006337 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021017211758.00af1f40@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:25:56 -0400 Status: RO Ok, here's my dilemma: I'm thinking about starting to make the hat in the Rubens portrait of Susanna Fourment next week sometime. I have a black felt hat blank, and I have the ostrich feathers. http://www.guardian.co.uk/gallery/image/0,8543,-11004295072,00.html or http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rubens/rubens_susanna_fourment.jpg.html for a larger view (I actually got around to ordering some beads etc. and have some passable earrings like hers, already -- it's hard to figure out exactly what she's wearing, since Rubens just used blobs of paint.) Questions: Should I trim the edge of this hat with a black binding, or leave it plain? I have some hat braid trim from Wooded Hamlet, but looking at this picture again I'm not really sure that the edge is trimmed at all. The interior of the hat -- how would this be finished out? Petersham hatband, linen strip, or what? The last time I had one of these black felt hat blanks, I wore it in damp weather and the whole thing ended up cone-shaped. Would Scotchguard work to keep this from happening again? Thanks, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 21:38:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26377 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:38:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1c33Y000294; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1c17x019342; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9I1bp7x019276 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:37:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OhCq6HIgQBWB0vbXJfIBdPc="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HFC9D9MC; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:37:02 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion Message-ID: <20021017.183613.-113583.6.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,6-7,11-16,18-19,21,23,25,27-28,30,32-33,35-37,39-40 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:35:59 +0000 Status: RO You should be able to breathe just fine in a well designed corset. The thing should keep the protruding parts of your anatomy in place and hold up the dress. It took a lot of convincing to get me into one, and some kicking and screaming too. I am a lifelong singer to whom any kind of "restrictive" garb was always a major no-no. There are lots of kinds of corsets. I found a barrel style worked quite well for me and did not confine my breathing (had to sing before the Crown with my choral group and got elevated to Laurel at the same time--how's *that* for an evening?). My costumer did a great job. So go for it! You'll be stunning! 8) Arlys On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:17:23 -0700 MaryAnn Jones writes: > You guys are freaking me out. I tried on a corset at costume > college, I assume it was a 19th century one and it totally set off my sciatica > and I couldn't walk for the rest of the day. Now you tell me that I may > not be able to breath in it either. Considering that I can barely breath > as it is, that isn't good news. I asked my gyn if he had any opinion on > 16th century corset construction. He, surprisingly, didn't. I am > thinking that if I use the directions for cording it rather than using boning it > might be better for me. He thought that might not give me the right kind of > support. My bodice is boned and hasn't bothered my back. I can > usually breath in it, but it doesn't support, as you say, my squishiness. > > I am also thinking that since I am 5"10" and saw 200 pounds about 15 > years ago, with a bum roll, farthingale and big collar ruff, I could be > extremely imposing. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Oct 17 21:39:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26403 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:39:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1d23Y000333; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1d17x019624; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I1cq7x019586 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:38:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.3.156] (p44.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.156]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28360 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:38:01 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021017211758.00af1f40@saltmine.radix.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:19:16 -0600 Status: RO on 10/17/02 7:25 PM, Kevin + Mara at lindo@radix.net wrote: > > Questions: > Should I trim the edge of this hat with a black binding, or leave it > plain? I have some hat braid trim from Wooded Hamlet, but looking at this > picture again I'm not really sure that the edge is trimmed at all. I would wire the outside edge with hatwire and cover it with binding of some sort. Then get some hat sizing and spray it with a couple coats. Sylvia R > > The interior of the hat -- how would this be finished out? Petersham > hatband, linen strip, or what? > > The last time I had one of these black felt hat blanks, I wore it in damp > weather and the whole thing ended up cone-shaped. Would Scotchguard work > to keep this from happening again? > > Thanks, > Mara > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 00:25:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27308 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:25:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4OC3Y010764; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4O17x001859; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4N27x001596 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a242.in-tch.com [66.62.107.42]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9I47oL03822 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAF8E24.DAFDDE23@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fall and Winter projects References: <3DAEC87F.5060802@comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20021017172708.00d06ba0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:29:24 -0600 Status: RO Our water freezes solid, too! Seriously, though, mud's mostly a spring phenomenon here...snow melting before the ground's thawed, etc. I *do* always have to go barefoot outside during the first chinook though, which usually happens in late January or early February....sort of a personal encouragement for Spring to come! ;-) --sue, whose usual concession to winter and snow is to put a pair of sox on before she puts on her Birkenstocks.... Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > I think their mud is colder than our mud. Sometimes their mud freezes > solid, and they can't wallow in it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 00:53:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27401 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:53:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4r33Y012432; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4r17x009597; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4qT7x009465 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-123-139.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.123.139]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALZ30332; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:50:23 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <018d01c27662$b3b129c0$1a7d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com><20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021017172022.009fc1f0@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:55:47 +0100 Status: RO >puttees? Wooley banadages wrapped around the legs, Windigas (not sure of spelling) are belived to be the Anglo Saxon version of putees, possibily wrapped around the foot too in that era Good thing with puttees they can be changed easier then the whole trouser (pants in US speak !) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 00:54:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27405 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:54:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4s13Y012509; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4s07x009837; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4rK7x009672 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-123-139.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.123.139]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALZ30342; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:51:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <018e01c27662$d23bc440$1a7d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com><20021017.115310.1916.3.spynnere@juno.com> <4.3.0.20021017185719.00bf8620@pop.vaxxine.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:57:11 +0100 Status: RO Sheridan Oil & grease then could have been used in earlier times & then wiped off perhaps to help with the wet ?That with fleece/hay/moss padding would help considerably with the damp I think (next bit of experimental archaeology :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 00:57:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27416 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4v43Y012623; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4v27x010581; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4uF7x010373 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:56:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-123-139.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.123.139]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALZ30379; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:54:09 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <019501c27663$3a817e00$1a7d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021016115725.00c95b10@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20021017152348.04e43a90@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legendsconcerningfashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:00:06 +0100 Status: RO >This is more a function of the slouch-shaped car seat than anything else. There's a concavity for the middle of my back to slump into, as is the case with most car seats, and it's not any fun even without the corset, as is the case with most car seats Ah my car & every one I've driven in the last 10 years at least is convex at the lumber region, further most have a settable lumber support there. Yes I do set the lumber support to hard in my corset so Thanks I understand. As a matter of interest is this a US car, it seems very odd that this has not been address, ie the back not matching the seat ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 00:58:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27420 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4wE3Y012703; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4w87x010909; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:58:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4vX7x010703 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:57:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip181.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.181]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g9I4vPm09070 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:57:26 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion Message-ID: <3DAF3337.28321.D8516@localhost> Priority: normal References: <006901c275a4$d5769540$2d674ed5@pavilion> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20021017152348.04e43a90@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:01:27 -0700 Status: RO > > >I can't bend at the waist very well in the thing, which means I > > >can't drive > >to and from dance events while wearing it, but it does the job of a > >sports bra very nicely > > > >I can drive happily in my corset & bustle, I'm a bit baffled as why > >do you bend at the waist when driving ? > > This is more a function of the slouch-shaped car seat than anything > else. There's a concavity for the middle of my back to slump into, as > is the case with most car seats, and it's not any fun even without the > corset, as is the case with most car seats. > Kayta I miss the old "bench seating" in vehicles. They allowed much better overall posture than the "bucket seats" in cars now days. The newer seats hunch you over and push your arms in so that you are pushed into a position that is very bad for the back, arms, neck and shoulders. It's comfortable for slouched shouldered people but they make my arms fall asleep as I'm driving. Also, I have trouble sitting in them corsetted because in my corset I can't "slouch." (It was one of the things that drove me nuts about the corset worn in Lady Jane by Helen Bonham Carter. She kept slouching oddly in it and most corsets which fit correctly don't let you slouch quite that way. (I think it was too long waisted at the sides. Very common mistake in corsetting.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 00:59:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27424 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:59:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4wY3Y012734; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:58:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4wW7x011029; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I4vi7x010775 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-123-139.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.123.139]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ALZ30395; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:55:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <019a01c27663$6eca8080$1a7d4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <006901c275a4$d5769540$2d674ed5@pavilion><4.3.1.2.20021016115725.00c95b10@mail.frys.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021017171026.009f95a0@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:01:34 +0100 Status: RO >You guys are freaking me out. I tried on a corset at costume college, I assume it was a 19th century one and it totally set off my sciatica and I couldn't walk for the rest of the day Trying on other peoples corsets is going to be uncomfortable in relation to one made for you. I really have no difficulties in mine :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 01:56:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27568 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:56:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I5u33Y014815; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I5u17x023617; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I5t67x023397 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021018055504.LTTA292.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:55:04 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question Message-ID: <3DAFB03F.21890.17038851@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <018e01c27662$d23bc440$1a7d4ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:54:55 +0100 Status: RO On 18 Oct 2002 at 5:57, Melanie Wilson wrote: > Sheridan > > Oil & grease then could have been used in earlier times & then wiped > off perhaps to help with the wet ?That with fleece/hay/moss padding > would help considerably with the damp I think (next bit of > experimental archaeology :) An accidental bit of experimenal archaeology I did years ago suggests that "period" leather boots, when lined with fleece, do keep you feet comfortable and warm even if the incompetence of the maker means that they leak. I wandered around in snow, mud, and shallow streams for a day: feet wet, but not cold. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 02:11:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA32593 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:11:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I6B23Y015366; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I6B07x026721; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I6A07x026578 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.100.114]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMD21471; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:09:07 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <002701c2766d$8a824060$72644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DAFB03F.21890.17038851@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:13:55 +0100 Status: RO >An accidental bit of experimenal archaeology I did years ago suggests that "period" leather boots, when lined with fleece, Do you mean fleece as in loose bits of wool fibre or as in sheepskin ? >do keep you feet comfortable and warm even if the incompetence of the maker means that they leak. You can't really help that they leak esp pre welt, and the leather lets ythe water in too Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 02:17:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02942 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:17:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I6H33Y015551; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I6H17x027968; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I6GJ7x027848 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021018061617.BJZJ17202.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:16:17 +0100 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question Message-ID: <3DAFB543.29841.17171FB1@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002701c2766d$8a824060$72644ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:16:19 +0100 Status: RO On 18 Oct 2002 at 7:13, Melanie Wilson wrote: > >An accidental bit of experimenal archaeology I did > years ago suggests that "period" leather boots, when > lined with fleece, > > Do you mean fleece as in loose bits of wool fibre or as in sheepskin ? I used sheepskin bootees, furry side to the foot. (I have no evidence for this in any period at all, before you ask.This was years back, and I was making it up as I went along.) > >do keep you feet comfortable and > warm even if the incompetence of the maker means > that they leak. > > You can't really help that they leak esp pre welt, and the leather > lets ythe water in too True, but there was a certain degree of incompetence as well. The original reason for the sheepskin was just to make them fit :( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 02:46:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14400 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:46:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I6k63Y016620; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:46:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I6k17x004179; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I6jY7x004085 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:45:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion ([213.78.100.114]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMD22131; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:44:40 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00cf01c27672$82743b80$72644ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DAFB543.29841.17171FB1@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:49:29 +0100 Status: RO >I used sheepskin bootees, furry side to the foot. >(I have no evidence for this in any period at all, before you ask.This was years back, and I was making it up as I went along.) I wasn't going to ask ;) It is I feel a distinct possibility >The original reason for the sheepskin was just to make them fit :( Ah..... Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 03:31:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10645 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 03:31:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I7V53Y018125; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I7V17x013015; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9I7U67x012867 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021018073005.98631.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:30:05 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002701c2766d$8a824060$72644ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:30:05 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > > > You can't really help that they leak esp pre welt, and the leather lets ythe > water in too Funnily enough, the shoes and boots (5th-9th c) that Ivor Lawton made for us never leaked. Granted, he is a miracle and master of shoemaking. Incidentally, he is a god of blacksmithing too, the MINDBLOWING reproduction of the Sutton Hoo helmet in the new museum at Sutton Hoo was made by him, and done in exactly the same way the original was. It's is sooooo beautiful. *sigh* Anyway, I think they are also waxed and/or oiled, and have an insole made from fleece. Actually, if you take natural fleece with the lanolin still in it and make it a bit wet when you put it in, and just walk on it, it felts itself. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 03:41:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21833 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 03:41:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I7f33Y018434; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I7f17x014978; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9I7eR7x014890 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021018074026.93826.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:40:26 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021017211758.00af1f40@saltmine.radix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:40:26 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kevin + Mara wrote: > > Questions: > Should I trim the edge of this hat with a black binding, or leave it > plain? I have some hat braid trim from Wooded Hamlet, but looking at this > picture again I'm not really sure that the edge is trimmed at all. The problem with this is one that I had encountered too making a posh hat (the one Ben wears with his 1660s clothing and all the ostrich feathers). The problem is that our felt hats are in no way even remorely what theirposh hats would have been like/made from. the best hats were made of beaver and there is no need to trim the edges like there is with the not-very-wonderful felt blanks/hats nowadays. Even when using a super quality felt hat it just isn't the same. I saw an original hat from the 1680s and it wasn't trimmed at the edge, but it wasn't necessary either. Then again, you CAN still get beaver hats, the Chelsea Pensioners wear beaver tricornes with their uniform (fossilized 18th centurish redcoat uniform) and we called them up to ask. Yes, we could get a blank and yes, they start at a few hundred pounds.... So my solution/advice is, take a look what it loks like without, and if it doesn't look good enough, just trim the edge. OR get a beaver hat *G* > The interior of the hat -- how would this be finished out? Petersham > hatband, linen strip, or what? Not a clue, te hat on display didn't show the inside *growls*. certainly from the paintings I have studied it shows nothing inside, just darkness. I suggest the best is perhaps to put some kind of protection inside from the hair oils. > The last time I had one of these black felt hat blanks, I wore it in damp > weather and the whole thing ended up cone-shaped. Would Scotchguard work > to keep this from happening again? Ouch!!! I have never heard that/had that happen. It sounds like a bad quality felt. Ben's hats got all DFENCHED and I mean soaking dripping wet all through, and nothing happened (after all, you are talking re-enactment in England here *groans*). Try scotchguarding, or try looking for a thicker felt hat, it really shouldn't happen. Sorry I can't give you better advise on that. :-( Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 03:55:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08706 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 03:55:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I7t83Y018998; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I7t47x017748; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I7sI7x017591 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-105.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.105]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4AC67C2C for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:54:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3DAFBE29.6040602@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: dance boot (wasRe: [h-cost] modern ethnic garments) References: <4.3.1.2.20020805124832.00da7670@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20020808084143.00c65ca0@mail.frys.com> <3DAF4B94.8CD573AF@misc.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050804050607060901040402" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:54:17 +0200 Status: RO --------------050804050607060901040402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those acrobatic shoes look good to! Theresa Eacker wrote: >To Kayta- > >Would this be the boot you'd be looking for(scroll down about 3 >pictures) to the Adelita boot? > >http://www.elcharro1.com/folkloricoshoes.html > >Theresa Eacker > >Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: (Pruning) > >>I am currently tracking down either a maker or an importer of the boots the >>'Folklorico' (a Mexican folk dance style) dancers wear. The boots are made >>in Mexico. They look just like lace-up Victorian boots because they are >>still made from the same older patterns. They are built for dancing and >>stomping in, out of thicker leather than 100-year-old vintage ones >>are. >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > --------------050804050607060901040402 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those acrobatic shoes look good to!


Theresa Eacker wrote:
To Kayta-

Would this be the boot you'd be looking for(scroll down about 3
pictures) to the Adelita boot?

http://www.elcharro1.com/folkloricoshoes.html

Theresa Eacker

Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: (Pruning)

I am currently tracking down either a maker or an importer of the boots the
'Folklorico' (a Mexican folk dance style) dancers wear.  The boots are made
in Mexico.  They look just like lace-up Victorian boots because they are
still made from the same older patterns.  They are built for dancing and
stomping in, out of thicker leather than 100-year-old vintage ones
are.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


--------------050804050607060901040402-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 04:25:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12105 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:25:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8PD3Y020456; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:25:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8P37x023450; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8O97x023256 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9I8QGB09738.; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:26:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:23:06 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9I8O97x023256 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:22:59 +0100 Status: RO Mara wrote: > The last time I had one of these black felt hat blanks, I wore it in damp > weather and the whole thing ended up cone-shaped. Would Scotchguard work > to keep this from happening again? and Nicole replied: >Ouch!!! I have never heard that/had that happen. It sounds like a bad >quality felt. Ben's hats got all DFENCHED and I mean soaking dripping wet >all through, and nothing happened (after all, you are talking re-enactment >in England here *groans*). Try scotchguarding, or try looking for a thicker >felt hat, it really shouldn't happen. Sorry I can't give you better advise on >that. :-( When I was a musketeer I sometimes got my hat so wet that water collected in the brim and poured into the priming pan when I looked down to reload - but the hat never lost its shape (and it wasn't a specially expensive one). Of course it *never* rains in Germany, Nicole! ;-) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 04:32:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12119 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:32:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8W73Y020682; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8W47x024804; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8VP7x024707 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:31:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9I8XWB10383.; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:33:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:31:23 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legendsconcerningfashion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9I8VP7x024707 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:30:51 +0100 Status: RO My car doesn't have an adjustable lumbar support (obviously not an expensive enough model!) but I always drive with a cushion in the small of my back. I have driven short distances in a bum-roll, but a bustle must be quite tricky, being so low down! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> MelanieWilson@bigfoot.com 10/18/02 06:00am >>> >This is more a function of the slouch-shaped car seat than anything else. There's a concavity for the middle of my back to slump into, as is the case with most car seats, and it's not any fun even without the corset, as is the case with most car seats Ah my car & every one I've driven in the last 10 years at least is convex at the lumber region, further most have a settable lumber support there. Yes I do set the lumber support to hard in my corset so Thanks I understand. As a matter of interest is this a US car, it seems very odd that this has not been address, ie the back not matching the seat ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 04:38:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12137 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:38:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8c73Y020855; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:38:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8c47x026005; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9I8av7x025799 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:36:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021018083656.54452.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:36:56 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:36:56 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > > When I was a musketeer I sometimes got my hat so wet that water collected in > the brim and poured into the priming pan when I looked down to reload - but > the hat never lost its shape (and it wasn't a specially expensive one). Kate, could there be a difference then in the felt blanks we can get here and Mara can get in the US? It's odd, isn't it, because I have never heard of anyone's hat losing shape here, and blimey, it does rain a lot at re-enactments (usually not when we are NOT doing re-enactment) > Of course it *never* rains in Germany, Nicole! ;-) Harharharhar, where I come from, in Aachen, it rained a lot MORE than ever here in the Southeast, but I didn't do re-enactment in germany. :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 06:18:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12298 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:18:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8w93Y021276; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:58:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8w17x029475; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9I8vk7x029428 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 02:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9I8xsB12926.; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:59:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:57:45 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] mail bouncers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9I8vk7x029428 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:57:20 +0100 Status: RO Could this be the work of the Bugbear virus? We got it here at the University and it started sending copies of messages I sent to a reenactor in the Netherlands several years ago, ostensibly from him, to other people on my contact list. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> afmmurphy@earthlink.net 10/17/02 05:36pm >>> I have a stranger one for you... I have a hotmail account that was subscribed to this list until 4 years ago. I don't use it much any more, but keep it because every so often someone I know will use it... I just received a digest from May 1998 in that account! They put it on my safe list, too... not in the junk mail, where everything is supposed to go unless vetted. But you may still be in my address book - have to check that out. Well, I was subscribed then, at that address, to the digest. Has this been out in the ether for 4 years? I wish they'd bounce the 100 or so spam I get a day... Anne Elizabeth Lear wrote: >Hotmail is bouncing email from this list to all hotmail.com accounts. >If you know one of these people, please contact them and ask them to >complain to hotmail. Thanks. > > >----- Forwarded message from postmaster@mail.hotmail.com ----- > >Delivery to the following recipients failed. > > maggiros@hotmail.com > misssalchow@hotmail.com > audreybmorin2@hotmail.com > noxcat@hotmail.com > kprack@hotmail.com > alexfrazier@hotmail.com > jbmcardle@hotmail.com > kimie205@hotmail.com > distantdesigns@hotmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 06:22:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12307 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:22:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IAKf3Y023297; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IAK37x012040; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (relay04.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IAJq7x011984 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6277 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2002 10:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.195.214]) (envelope-sender ) by relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2002 10:19:50 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c2768f$ce39f1a0$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <3DAEC87F.5060802@comcast.net> <4.3.1.2.20021017172708.00d06ba0@mail.frys.com> <3DAF8E24.DAFDDE23@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fall and Winter projects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:19:12 -0400 Status: RO Having had a frost already, they are now talking about the Falling Water being frozen solid when it falls this weekend. We MIGHT get a few more high daylight temps up in the 50s, but mostly they are forecasting cold in the daytime, and at that 32 degree freezing point or below most nights. Considering we have had drought conditions for more than a year, we are trying to be thankful for the Very Cold Downpours we are getting right now. But it feels miserable. Thankfully, we did not use the canvas, but used the colorful plastic material cover for the tent for last weekend's RenFair, since Wet descended most of the weekend. Of course, it poured when we had to take down (in the dark yet!) It isn't even snowing yet, but wallowing in it is not what we want to do. Rowena, in upstate New York (and Upstate to us is at least 200 miles above New York City). > Our water freezes solid, too! Seriously, though, mud's mostly a > spring phenomenon here...snow melting before the ground's thawed, etc. ;-) > > I think their mud is colder than our mud. Sometimes their mud freezes > > solid, and they can't wallow in it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 06:45:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12397 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:45:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IAjC3Y023852; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IAj77x016285; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:45:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IAir7x016223 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9IAiqnp001604 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:44:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, sylvia wrote: > I would wire the outside edge with hatwire and cover it with binding of some > sort. Then get some hat sizing and spray it with a couple coats. > > Sylvia R What is hat sizing -- i.e., what does it do? The felt hat blank I have is pretty stiff as it is. I'm more worried about it UN-stiffening if it gets damp. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 06:53:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12429 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:53:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IAqV3Y024056; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IAp57x017284; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IAoZ7x017178 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9IAoWnp002130 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:50:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" In-Reply-To: <20021018074026.93826.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > So my solution/advice is, take a look what it loks like without, and if it > doesn't look good enough, just trim the edge. OR get a beaver hat *G* Well, if I make it up without the edge trim, that _is_ something I could add later... > > The interior of the hat -- how would this be finished out? Petersham > > hatband, linen strip, or what? > > Not a clue, te hat on display didn't show the inside *growls*. certainly from > the paintings I have studied it shows nothing inside, just darkness. I suggest > the best is perhaps to put some kind of protection inside from the hair oils. I think I'm going to line it with linen... Looked through Janet Arnold yesterday night, not much help there. > > The last time I had one of these black felt hat blanks, I wore it in damp > > weather and the whole thing ended up cone-shaped. Would Scotchguard work > > to keep this from happening again? > > Ouch!!! I have never heard that/had that happen. It sounds like a bad quality > felt. Ben's hats got all DFENCHED and I mean soaking dripping wet all through, > and nothing happened (after all, you are talking re-enactment in England here > *groans*). Try scotchguarding, or try looking for a thicker felt hat, it really > shouldn't happen. Sorry I can't give you better advise on that. :-( > > Nicole Yes, that was a fairly cheap felt hat. This blank is thicker, but I'm still paranoid... -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 07:10:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12546 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:10:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBA83Y024619; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBA07x020651; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IB9U7x020585 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:09:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m156.in-tch.com [216.166.191.156]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g9IAsIL25078 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3DAFED69.3E273D6F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] mail bouncers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:15:53 -0600 Status: RO Possibly. I unsubbed to a couple of lace-related lists before I went to England in August, and haven't gotten around to re-subbing yet. So I shouldn't be getting *any* mail from them. My ISP's virus filter has caught a number of Bugbear-laden messages, with a lace-related "address," so my guess is, someone (maybe more than one) on the lace lists got herself infected, and happens to have both my addy and the list addys in her address book. --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > > Could this be the work of the Bugbear virus? > We got it here at the University and it started sending copies of messages I sent to a reenactor in the Netherlands several years ago, ostensibly from him, to other people on my contact list. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> afmmurphy@earthlink.net 10/17/02 05:36pm >>> > I have a stranger one for you... > > I have a hotmail account that was subscribed to this list until 4 years > ago. I don't use it much any more, but keep it because every so often > someone I know will use it... I just received a digest from May 1998 in > that account! They put it on my safe list, too... not in the junk mail, > where everything is supposed to go unless vetted. But you may still be > in my address book - have to check that out. > > Well, I was subscribed then, at that address, to the digest. Has this > been out in the ether for 4 years? I wish they'd bounce the 100 or so > spam I get a day... > > Anne > > Elizabeth Lear wrote: > > >Hotmail is bouncing email from this list to all hotmail.com accounts. > >If you know one of these people, please contact them and ask them to > >complain to hotmail. Thanks. > > > > > >----- Forwarded message from postmaster@mail.hotmail.com ----- > > > >Delivery to the following recipients failed. > > > > maggiros@hotmail.com > > misssalchow@hotmail.com > > audreybmorin2@hotmail.com > > noxcat@hotmail.com > > kprack@hotmail.com > > alexfrazier@hotmail.com > > jbmcardle@hotmail.com > > kimie205@hotmail.com > > distantdesigns@hotmail.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 07:11:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12551 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:11:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBB33Y024637; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBB17x020834; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBA77x020663 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p354-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.100] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 182V12-0005j1-00; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:10:04 +1300 Message-ID: <002001c27696$eb5feee0$64c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021016.080311.-113583.3.Cley@juno.com> Subject: singing in corsets Re: [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerning fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:10:07 +1300 Status: RO > I'm a singer and a friend of mine designed a barrel corset to hold up a > very heavy and gorgeous Italian Renaissance gown that I had to be able to > sing in. The thing was so well done that it held up the dress and did not > confine my floating ribs or musclature. It also did not squish the upper > part of my frontage. :) Now I'm going to have to look very carefully through my Girls Own Annuals as I *know* there is an article in there not just on singing (though there is an article by Tetrazzini:) ) but also on what to look for in a corset. Yes, the era of the horrible s bend corset and it produced singers still remembered today. And then of course Patti, Melba Christine Nilson et al had to deal with victorian corsets too... michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 07:37:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12956 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:37:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBZ23a025223; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:35:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBUT7x024376; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:30:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBT57x024096 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.14b.160d648e (16484) for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:28:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <14b.160d648e.2ae14a40@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14b.160d648e.2ae14a40_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:28:00 EDT Status: RO --part1_14b.160d648e.2ae14a40_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/17/2002 9:32:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@radix.net writes: > The last time I had one of these black felt hat blanks, I wore it in damp > weather and the whole thing ended up cone-shaped. Would Scotchguard work > to keep this from happening again? > > Felt hat blanks are usually treated with a special felt hat sizing. The only source I know for it is Leko Millinery supplies, and you have to buy a gallon, and some other things, as they are wholesale only with a minimum. (But they have neat flowers and things, too.) I'm not sure if several applications of sizing would help you hat through the rain, or not. Does anyone else have a guess? Ann Wass --part1_14b.160d648e.2ae14a40_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/17/2002 9:32:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@radix.net writes:


The last time I had one of these black felt hat blanks, I wore it in damp
weather and the whole thing ended up cone-shaped.  Would Scotchguard work
to keep this from happening again?



Felt hat blanks are usually treated with a special felt hat sizing.  The only source I know for it is Leko Millinery supplies, and you have to buy a gallon, and some other things, as they are wholesale only with a minimum.  (But they have neat flowers and things, too.)  I'm not sure if several applications of sizing would help you hat through the rain, or not.  Does anyone else have a guess?
Ann Wass --part1_14b.160d648e.2ae14a40_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 07:39:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13000 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:39:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBcW3Y025345; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:38:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBcD7x025736; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBbR7x025618 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.a4.2e1012c5 (16484) for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:37:18 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a4.2e1012c5.2ae14c6e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:37:18 EDT Status: RO --part1_a4.2e1012c5.2ae14c6e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/18/2002 6:45:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: > What is hat sizing -- i.e., what does it do? The felt hat blank I have is > pretty stiff as it is. I'm more worried about it UN-stiffening if it gets > damp. > > Mara- I took a class with a professional milliner and she treated all the felt blanks with the sizing before we worked with them. I have since bought the sizing to do myself. I presume it helps condition the felt and seems to be necessary. Where did you get your blank? I suppose it is possible that it is already sized. As to wiring the brim--I agree. In the class, we just turned the felt over to make a casing over the millinery wire. We stitched on a sewing machine with clear nylon thread. For my period straw hats, I use a bias binding and sew it over the wire by hand. If you use a binding for the felt hat, it is generally a special grosgrain ribbon--I think petersham would do--shape it first by folding in half and pressing/steaming around a dinner plate to shape it. Regular grosgrain ribbon doesn't work as well because it is harder to get it to take the curve. Ann Wass --part1_a4.2e1012c5.2ae14c6e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/18/2002 6:45:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes:


What is hat sizing -- i.e., what does it do?  The felt hat blank I have is
pretty stiff as it is.  I'm more worried about it UN-stiffening if it gets
damp.



Mara-
I took a class with a professional milliner and she treated all the felt blanks with the sizing before we worked with them.  I have since bought the sizing to do myself.  I presume it helps condition the felt and seems to be necessary.  Where did you get your blank?  I suppose it is possible that it is already sized.

As to wiring the brim--I agree.  In the class, we just turned the felt over to make a casing over the millinery wire.  We stitched on a sewing machine with clear nylon thread.  For my period straw hats, I use a bias binding and sew it over the wire by hand.  If you use a binding for the felt hat, it is generally a special grosgrain ribbon--I think petersham would do--shape it first by folding in half and pressing/steaming around a dinner plate to shape it.  Regular grosgrain ribbon doesn't work as well because it is harder to get it to take the curve.
Ann Wass --part1_a4.2e1012c5.2ae14c6e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 07:50:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13278 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:50:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBnk3Y025723; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBnd7x027673; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBjo81027007 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:46:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.35]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H4600I6GE02AE@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:45:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legendsconcerningfashion In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021018044329.04c041c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:45:03 -0700 Status: RO >My car doesn't have an adjustable lumbar support (obviously not an >expensive enough model!) but I always drive with a cushion in the small of >my back. I have driven short distances in a bum-roll, but a bustle must be >quite tricky, being so low down! My Volvo has adjustable lumbar support, but it doesn't run right now. I'm driving my daughter's Ford Festiva while she's away at college in New York (yes, she knows I am - I asked her first). Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 07:56:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13352 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:56:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBtC3a025864; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:56:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBld7x027306; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IBjo7x027007 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.35]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H4600I6GE02AE@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:45:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017171026.009f95a0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021018043941.04c02240@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20021017152348.04e43a90@mail.frys.com> <006901c275a4$d5769540$2d674ed5@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20021016115725.00c95b10@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:41:48 -0700 Status: RO >You guys are freaking me out. Relax. I build my corsets probably as boned as you build your bodices. While I can reach over and touch my toes in my corset, I just can't do the tight bend my car seat tries to make me do. BTW, that's why *I* build my corsets, and not somebody else. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 08:28:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13520 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:28:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICS13Y027112; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICS0ee004684; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICRZee004541 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9ICRZnp011519 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:27:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" In-Reply-To: <14b.160d648e.2ae14a40@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I hoofed it down to CVS and found a can of Kiwi Protect-All, which is a water and stain repellant one can use on leather and fabric; it says it can be used on hats. This _isn't_ sizing -- just water repellant (I'm guessing it's silicon?)... I wonder if repelling the water from the felt would keep the felt from deforming? -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 08:30:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13534 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:30:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICU13Y027210; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICU1ee005222; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICTBee004983 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:29:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9ICTAnp011733 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:29:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > Mara- > I took a class with a professional milliner and she treated all the felt > blanks with the sizing before we worked with them. I have since bought the > sizing to do myself. I presume it helps condition the felt and seems to be > necessary. Where did you get your blank? I suppose it is possible that it > is already sized. Thanks, Ann -- I suspect it is already sized, since it's pretty stiff, and is in the shape I want. > As to wiring the brim--I agree. In the class, we just turned the felt over > to make a casing over the millinery wire. We stitched on a sewing machine > with clear nylon thread. For my period straw hats, I use a bias binding and > sew it over the wire by hand. If you use a binding for the felt hat, it is > generally a special grosgrain ribbon--I think petersham would do--shape it > first by folding in half and pressing/steaming around a dinner plate to shape > it. Regular grosgrain ribbon doesn't work as well because it is harder to > get it to take the curve. > Ann Wass I've got some petersham from G Street that should do the trick! -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 08:32:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13540 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:32:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICW23Y027283; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICW1ee005670; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICV1ee005450 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9ICV0np011890 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:31:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Ok, now how about the interior of the hat? Do I need a hat band, or will a linen lining suffice to keep the hat from stretching out? Thanks, folks, for all the advice... -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 08:48:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13595 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:48:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICm23Y028057; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9ICm0ee009853; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IClKee009554 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.153] (pm5-153.eos.net [205.133.149.153]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07888 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:47:17 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021017144401.2266.44623.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: "The Ship" (OT) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:45:23 -0400 Status: RO We don't have cable so we can't watch "The Ship," but I wish I could. A few years ago I went to see a recreation of "The Nina," one of Columbus's ships. It was so small! But it was lovely. The crew of about 6 sails it around the US for donations. (It has a motor and a GPS system, but it can also be sailed traditionally -- the real ship had a crew of 30.) One of the sailors said that they have a hard time keeping crew, because most of the people who sign on think it will be romantic and fun, but it's really a lot of hard, backbreaking work, so they quit. Apparently you have to really love sailing to be a crewmember of one of those beauties! No costume content at all, sorry. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 09:34:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13807 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:34:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IDY23Y000129; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IDY0ee021746; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f43.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IDXuee021701 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:33:51 -0700 Received: from 80.3.160.4 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:33:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.160.4] From: "Joy Shillaker" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2002 13:33:51.0688 (UTC) FILETIME=[FF244480:01C276AA] Subject: [h-cost] embroidery book information Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:33:51 +0000 Status: RO Does anyone know anything about a little embroidery book,'Encyclopedia of Needlework by TH. de Dillmont please? My Father recently had a sort out and gave me some of my late Mum's sewing things. This book was amongst them It's packed with informationon all kinds of neeedlework including needle lace. In the introduction to plain sewing it says 'What is the use of all this information about handsewing now that machine stitching has so nearly superceded work done by hand?' so I reckon it may be early 20th century? thanks Joy _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 09:35:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13814 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:35:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IDZ33Y000224; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IDZ2ee022129; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IDYkee021954 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:34:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from melaniew ([213.78.100.27]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMD54511; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:33:46 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00eb01c276ab$65b8f2e0$1b644ed5@melaniew> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:35:53 +0100 Status: RO >Funnily enough, the shoes and boots (5th-9th c) that Ivor Lawton made for us never leaked. Are they welted though ? Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 09:52:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13867 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:52:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IDq63Y001074; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:52:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IDq0ee027307; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IDpPee027169 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 176C61E1EDE; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:51:22 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery book information From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021018135122.176C61E1EDE@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:51:21 BST Status: RO Joy Shillaker wrote : > Does anyone know anything about a little embroidery book,'Encyclopedia of > Needlework by TH. de Dillmont please? > My Father recently had a sort out and gave me some of my late Mum's sewing > things. This book was amongst them It's packed with informationon all kinds > of neeedlework including needle lace. In the introduction to plain sewing it > > says 'What is the use of all this information about handsewing now that > machine stitching has so nearly superceded work done by hand?' so I reckon > it may be early 20th century? Google is wonderful! "The Complete DMC Encyclopedia of Needlework by Thérèse de Dillmont was originally published over a century ago. The fact that it is still in print will tell you a lot about how good it is. This needlework classic is one of the best and most complete guides to almost every form of embroidery (not to mention knitting, tatting, macramé, etc.). This should be considered a must-have book if you are interested in a number of different needlework techniques." But it *has* been reprinted a lot. So your copy may not be as old as all that :( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 10:49:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14133 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:49:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IEn33Y004816; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IEn1ee018604; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IEmmee018507 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:48:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9IEmknp028833 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:48:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery book information In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I think it was published in the late 19th c. I have a reprint of it; it's ok, but the instructions aren't that great -- I think they assume a certain amount of knowledge that a modern sewer might not have, and if I wanted instructions on, say, lacemaking, I'd be better off looking in a book specifically on that subject, rather than relying on the sketchy instructions in Dillmont. That being said, it's still not a bad thing to have. -- Mara On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joy Shillaker wrote: > Does anyone know anything about a little embroidery book,'Encyclopedia of > Needlework by TH. de Dillmont please? > My Father recently had a sort out and gave me some of my late Mum's sewing > things. This book was amongst them It's packed with informationon all kinds > of neeedlework including needle lace. In the introduction to plain sewing it > says 'What is the use of all this information about handsewing now that > machine stitching has so nearly superceded work done by hand?' so I reckon > it may be early 20th century? > > thanks > Joy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 11:04:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14196 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:04:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IF353Y005751; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IF30ee024652; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IF25ee024197 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.3.183] (p23.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.183]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32643 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:01:13 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:42:29 -0600 Status: RO > >> As to wiring the brim--I agree. In the class, we just turned the felt over >> to make a casing over the millinery wire. We stitched on a sewing machine >> with clear nylon thread. For my period straw hats, I use a bias binding and >> sew it over the wire by hand. If you use a binding for the felt hat, it is >> generally a special grosgrain ribbon--I think petersham would do--shape it >> first by folding in half and pressing/steaming around a dinner plate to shape >> it. Regular grosgrain ribbon doesn't work as well because it is harder to >> get it to take the curve. >> Ann Wass > > I've got some petersham from G Street that should do the trick! The petersham I've used for costuming is too stiff to use for this purpose. Is your petersham as soft as grosgrain? Sylvia > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 11:17:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14292 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:17:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IFG43Y006799; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IFG0ee000927; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IFFWee000693 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4600JRDNPQAL@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:15:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question - To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DB02553.5050308@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:14:27 -0500 Status: RO What you have Mara is a pre-shaped hat blank if it is already the shape you want and is fairly stiffened. If you purchased it from a reputable company you shouldn't have to size it at all. Now you could however Scotchgaurd it if you are going to be in downpours a lot, but for every day use it should hold up quite well. A felt blank (usually a firm thick felt, but not a stiff felt)is a conical shaped thing that has no pre set shape to it and it is intended to be steamed and stretched over wooden/metal forms (hat blocks) to create the shape you want, then you would definetly need to size it once you have it the shape/size you want so it would keep that shape. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 11:57:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14599 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:57:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IFt23Y010375; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IFt0ee020967; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9IFsIee020604 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OoOEhUzbZ8kkKzDHf1dhh+A="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HFESEAZF; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:53:24 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery book information Message-ID: <20021018.085249.-113583.8.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-9,11,13-56 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:45:34 +0000 Status: RO My edition of Dillmont says it was first printed in 1884. I second the comments given below. I've had that problem too. Arlys On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Kevin & Mara Riley writes: > I think it was published in the late 19th c. I have a reprint of > it; it's ok, but the instructions aren't that great -- I think they > assume a certain amount of knowledge that a modern sewer might not have, and > if I wanted instructions on, say, lacemaking, I'd be better off looking > in a book specifically on that subject, rather than relying on the > sketchy instructions in Dillmont. > > That being said, it's still not a bad thing to have. > > -- Mara > > > On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joy Shillaker wrote: > > > Does anyone know anything about a little embroidery > book,'Encyclopedia of > > Needlework by TH. de Dillmont please? > > My Father recently had a sort out and gave me some of my late > Mum's sewing > > things. This book was amongst them It's packed with informationon > all kinds > > of neeedlework including needle lace. In the introduction to plain > sewing it > > says 'What is the use of all this information about handsewing now > that > > machine stitching has so nearly superceded work done by hand?' so > I reckon > > it may be early 20th century? > > > > thanks > > Joy > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 12:22:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14667 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:22:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IGL63Y012587; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IGL0ee005202; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IGKiee005008 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9IGKgnp010956 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:20:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hat question -- Rubens "Le Chapeau de Paille" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, sylvia wrote: > The petersham I've used for costuming is too stiff to use for this purpose. > Is your petersham as soft as grosgrain? > > Sylvia I used some on the brim of that unfortunate hat I made a few years ago, that got rain-soaked and bent out of shape. Didn't wire the brim though... It did seem soft enough to do the job. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 12:24:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14672 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:24:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IGN03Y012794; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IGN0ee006524; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IGMDee006047 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 208-58-250-166.s420.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.250.166] helo=rcn.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 182Zt6-0006Ly-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:22:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3DB03536.AEA73B29@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20021018083203.24790.88768.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Corsetted Driving Problem Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:22:14 -0400 Status: RO This one I can answer. A solution to your problem of your back being this way corsetted ( and your seat back being this way ), for a sitting problem like this: () Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14958 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:24:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IHN53Y018372; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IHN0ee009272; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IHMmee009074 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.6e.24b633db (30960) for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:22:38 -0400 (EDT) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <6e.24b633db.2ae19d5d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery book information To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_6e.24b633db.2ae19d5d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10581 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:22:37 EDT Status: RO --part1_6e.24b633db.2ae19d5d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is something else you should all consider. This book was not only written in 1884, but was also written for a European audience. Most European countries, to my knowledge teach needlework in school. at least the fist 6 grades. In other words European girls will learn to knit, to crochet, to embroider and a little bit of sewing by the time they are 11 years old. This book was also written for the DMC Company to promote their threads, and maybe most importantly it covers a whole lot of subjects. No, I do not think this book is a beginner's book, or a book that will teach you how to do a certain technique. If that is what you are looking for there are books on the market specifically designed for that. However that this book is still being reprinted, and I know it was about 5 years ago, should speak for itself. I personally think it is a must have for any needleworker's library, almost like an encyclopedia. Just my opinion. I hope I did not offend anyone. Elisabeth --part1_6e.24b633db.2ae19d5d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is something else you should all consider.  This book was not only written in 1884, but was also written for a European audience.  Most European countries, to my knowledge teach needlework in school. at least the fist 6 grades.  In other words European girls will learn to knit, to crochet, to embroider and a little bit of sewing by the time they are 11 years old.

This book was also written for the DMC Company to promote their threads, and maybe most importantly it covers a whole lot of subjects.  No, I do not think this book is a beginner's book, or a book that will teach you how to do a certain technique.  If that is what you are looking for there are books on the market specifically designed for that. However that this book is still being reprinted, and I know it was about 5 years ago, should speak for itself. I personally think it is a must have for any needleworker's library, almost like an encyclopedia.

Just my opinion.  I hope I did not offend anyone.

Elisabeth
--part1_6e.24b633db.2ae19d5d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 14:24:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15240 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:24:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IIMC3Y023351; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IIMBnC009208; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IILnnC009025 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-164-48-168.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com ([216.164.48.168] helo=megan2) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 182bkq-0003Eu-01; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:21:48 -0400 From: "Megan M." To: "Treadle On" , Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] RE: [treadleon] RE: Off-topic- Horse costume needed ASAP Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:32:26 -0400 Status: RO I know this is rather off topic, but my stepdaughter decided that she wanted to dress up as a horse for Halloween TODAY!. Of course, none of the major pattern companies have a horse costume. Anyone know if there is ANY commercial pattern for one? Otherwise, I am trying to copy one of her stuffed animals, but I'd rather start from something made to fit a human head. HELP!! -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 14:49:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15436 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:49:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IIm23Y025386; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IIm1nC021318; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IIlVnC021045 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:47:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9IIlVnp029605 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:47:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Re: Horse costume needed ASAP Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well -- when I was in kindergarten, my Mom made me a giraffe costume. I think she just made a regular shirt/pants out of giraffe-patterned cloth, with a tail attached to the seat of the pants, and made a cardboard cone-like 'hat', (it rested on my shoulders, with a cutout for my face, actually) covered with the same fabric, with a decorated shoebox at the top for the giraffe's head. Maybe you could do something similar for the horse outfit, but with a shorter 'neck'? -- Mara On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Megan M. wrote: > I know this is rather off topic, but my stepdaughter decided that she wanted > to dress up as a horse for Halloween TODAY!. Of course, none of the major > pattern companies have a horse costume. Anyone know if there is ANY > commercial pattern for one? Otherwise, I am trying to copy one of her > stuffed animals, but I'd rather start from something made to fit a human > head. HELP!! > -Megan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 15:10:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15583 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:10:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IJA23Y026758; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IJA0nC001610; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (newmail.siscom.net [209.251.2.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9IJ9anC001443 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:09:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 77905 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2002 19:09:25 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2002 19:09:25 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021018150830.Y77519-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] horsehead mask Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That sounds like a real challenge to make...I know there's some (relatively) cheap horsehead masks for sale out there, for instance at http://www.partydomain.co.uk/d-commerce/page36.html Good luck, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 16:42:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16156 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:42:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IKf63Y004523; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IKf1nC017026; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IKeonC016926 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g9IKeACY096019 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200210182040.g9IKeACY096019@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] horsehead mask To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021018150830.Y77519-100000@shell.siscom.net> from "Drea Leed" at Oct 18, 2002 03:09:30 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO this is the kind of costume where I would probably ask local theatre companies if they were doing rentals... many SF theatres costume departments rent halloween costumes to bring in some money. .heather. > > That sounds like a real challenge to make...I know there's some > (relatively) cheap horsehead masks for sale out there, for instance at > http://www.partydomain.co.uk/d-commerce/page36.html > > Good luck, > > Drea > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 17:06:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16293 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:06:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IL633Y006883; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IL61nC029777; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IL5gnC029631 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:05:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [136.152.196.113] (as3-4-127.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.113]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g9IL5ew14997 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3DAFB03F.21890.17038851@localhost> References: <3DAFB03F.21890.17038851@localhost> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trench foot - was Iron Age' question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:00:43 -0700 Status: RO At 6:54 AM +0100 10/18/02, Jane Williams wrote: >On 18 Oct 2002 at 5:57, Melanie Wilson wrote: > >> Sheridan >> >> Oil & grease then could have been used in earlier times & then wiped >> off perhaps to help with the wet ?That with fleece/hay/moss padding >> would help considerably with the damp I think (next bit of >> experimental archaeology :) > >An accidental bit of experimenal archaeology I did >years ago suggests that "period" leather boots, when >lined with fleece, do keep you feet comfortable and >warm even if the incompetence of the maker means >that they leak. I wandered around in snow, mud, and >shallow streams for a day: feet wet, but not cold. I tend to make a lot of very early-medieval /Iron age styles of shoes, and they really aren't designed to be waterproof. But if you wearing them with enough layers of wool hose, shoe-lining, and whatnot, your feet stay warm even when they're wet clear through. (The only real trick when camping in these conditions is to make sure that, just before you go to bed, you can take your shoes and hose off before the fire and get your feet nice and dry and toasty-warm ... and then somehow teleport into bed while they're still in that condition.) And I agree with others that -- as long as the ground conditions don't require physical protection -- in wet conditions, bare feet often can be warmer than wet shoes. There are some interesting passages in Hald's "Primative Shoes" about styles of rawhide shoes used in, I believe, Ireland in the early 20th century, that were designed to be worn damp (working along shorelines and such). I imagine that the Trench Foot problem comes not merely from having wet feet, but from having wet feet continually 24/7 for an extended period of time, and not having a chance to take your boots off for very long at a time. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 18:34:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16849 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IMY23Y014571; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IMY1nC009930; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f168.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.168]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9IMXwnC009877 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:33:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:33:53 -0700 Received: from 217.45.76.164 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:33:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [217.45.76.164] From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2002 22:33:53.0540 (UTC) FILETIME=[70268440:01C276F6] Subject: [h-cost] Re:breathing in corsets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:33:53 +0100 Status: RO I'm not so sure about this... I have a big ribcage (so I've been told) ie I can see my ribs, and my waist is small in comparison to, say, my hips (English Pear, oh that phrase was just MADE for me.. which is why I'm obsessed with Victorian costume.. boost the bust, emphasise the waist, ignore the hips. Perfect.) Anyway, to get any kind of waist reduction in a corset, even an inch or two, I'm restricting my breathing. My friend, on the other hand, who I recently made a corset for, is "squashier" than I am and could reduce by 3-4 inches quite happily without feeling any discomfort. I think it is down to individual anatomy rather than the corset construction. Just my 2p worth. Kate You should be able to breathe just fine in a well designed corset. The thing should keep the protruding parts of your anatomy in place and hold up the dress. It took a lot of convincing to get me into one, and some kicking and screaming too. I am a lifelong singer to whom any kind of "restrictive" garb was always a major no-no. There are lots of kinds of corsets. I found a barrel style worked quite well for me and did not confine my breathing (had to sing before the Crown with my choral group and got elevated to Laurel at the same time--how's *that* for an evening?). My costumer did a great job. So go for it! You'll be stunning! 8) Arlys _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 20:21:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17328 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:21:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J0KE3Y020620; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J0K1nC016642; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12001.mail.yahoo.com (web12001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9J0J4nC016362 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021019001903.29714.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.213] by web12001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:19:03 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] banyan pattern from Deerfield Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Just a quick note to the list. One of you mentioned getting a pamplet with a man's banyan pattern in it from Deerfield Village. I e-mailed them and just got a reply. The pamplet with the banyan pattern in it is 2.86 plus shipping from the museum store. If anyone is interested you can call the museum store and order the pattern. The museum store is on-line so you can look up their site if you want. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 20:48:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17474 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:48:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J0m23Y022347; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J0m1nC024139; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nt-mail.eatel.net (ens9.eatel.net [209.124.203.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9J0lAnC023834 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:47:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15670 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2002 00:46:57 -0000 Received: from ras-pool-209-124-230-138.eatel.net (HELO earthlink.net) (209.124.230.138) by mail.premier.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2002 00:46:57 -0000 Message-ID: <3DB0AB71.40306@earthlink.net> From: Mama Rose User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: activity while corseted (was [h-cost] Re: urban legends concerningfashion References: <006901c275a4$d5769540$2d674ed5@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20021016115725.00c95b10@mail.frys.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021017171026.009f95a0@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:46:41 -0500 Status: RO > You guys are freaking me out. I tried on a corset at costume college, > I assume it was a 19th century one and it totally set off my sciatica > and I couldn't walk for the rest of the day. Now you tell me that I > may not be able to breath in it either. Considering that I can barely > breath as it is, that isn't good news. I asked my gyn if he had any > opinion on 16th century corset construction. He, surprisingly, > didn't. I am thinking that if I use the directions for cording it > rather than using boning it might be better for me. He thought that > might not give me the right kind of support. My bodice is boned and > hasn't bothered my back. I can usually breath in it, but it doesn't > support, as you say, my squishiness. My 16th century corset is a wonder. I've got plastic boning in it, so I can still bend, but it gives me lots of support. As I am a 48DD, that's important. But what is really nice is that I can walk, dance, run, yell at my kids, and never get out of breath. I haven't tried a Victorian or Edwardian corset, so I can't say about them, but an Elizabethan is wonderful. > I am also thinking that since I am 5"10" and saw 200 pounds about 15 > years ago, with a bum roll, farthingale and big collar ruff, I could > be extremely imposing. Like a ship at sea. I'm 5'11", 200 *mumble mumble* pounds, and in my full rig, doing my best Duchess impersonation, I can clear the streets! -- Mama Rose --->---{@ "Ho! Ah-ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!" *bonk* Daffy "Robin Hood" Duck _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 21:19:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17609 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:19:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J1J13Y024382; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J1J0nC002501; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J1ItnC002474 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:18:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Everydayele@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 7.41.255c5c46 (3980) for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:18:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Everydayele@aol.com Message-ID: <41.255c5c46.2ae20cf2@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10636 Subject: [h-cost] 1836 dresses Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:18:42 EDT Status: RO Hi all, I found this list via Kendra Van Cleave's "Demode" site during an internet search for information and pictures of 1836, American styled cotton dresses. (By the way Kendra if you are around, your site is fabulous and very helpful) I make custom bridal gowns for a living, and through a reference, have been hired to make several of these period garments to outfit a production of the Alamo. I was provided with a couple of old, costume house samples to reproduce in modern standard sizes, but as I am not familiar with the cut of these dresses, I have some questions that I hope some of you may be able to help me with. The shoulders are extended quite a bit which I'm assuming is design related as opposed to functional, but why are the armholes so small? A couple of notations I've read make reference to "restricted arm movement due to the tight armhole" but I haven't been able to find out why they were designed that way. Did it have something to do with a general lady-like demeanor? One of the dress samples has a slightly higher than natural waist level, which I have seen in the scant photos of that period that I've come across, but this one seems to scoop up a little at center front, instead of being the same horizontal depth around the body. How high above the waist would you say that the seam should be? Is it typical for the seam to drop a little by the time it reaches center back? And one petticoat question. Was it worn at the waist, or at the same level on the body where the bodice ends and the skirt begins? Any info would be much appreciated, Thanks much Angela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Oct 18 23:01:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18138 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:01:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J3043Y000443; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J301nC027627; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J2wwnC027312 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021019025853.DDO26524.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:58:53 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021018194021.009fa8d0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, "Treadle On" , From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: [treadleon] RE: Off-topic- Horse costume needed ASAP In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:49:56 -0700 Status: RO I costumed an entire grammar school (K-8) production of Cinderella a few years ago. For the horses, I got white sweat pants and sweat shirts (they were white horses). I got one of those costumes in the pattern books that is for animals. I took a head for a bear or a bunny or something and gave it horse looking ears. These heads leave the child's head completely exposed. I think we put big eyelashes on them and black dots on their noses. Then I cut a long fringe of yarn is a slightly darker color and sewed it to a ribbon and cascaded it from the top of the head and loosly down the back for the mane. I made a tail of the same yarn by winding a bunch to the right length. I made a knot at the top and cut the ends at the bottom and attached everything with safety pins. Easy and quick. What is most important to them is the mane and tail. Just keep telling her that what makes a horse is how you walk and snort. I am the queen of kid costumes. Just ask me. When my kids went on to high school, the drama department in the grammar school fell apart. hope this helps Maryann At 02:32 PM 10/18/2002 -0400, Megan M. wrote: >I know this is rather off topic, but my stepdaughter decided that she wanted >to dress up as a horse for Halloween TODAY!. Of course, none of the major >pattern companies have a horse costume. Anyone know if there is ANY >commercial pattern for one? Otherwise, I am trying to copy one of her >stuffed animals, but I'd rather start from something made to fit a human >head. HELP!! >-Megan > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 00:49:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18778 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:49:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J4m53Y005922; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J4m1nC023730; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from x11.quik.com (x11.quik.com [216.176.28.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J4lanC023573 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from downstairs (ip071.vb.quik.com [216.176.5.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by x11.quik.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9J4lY4N002842 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:47:35 -0700 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] embroidery book information Message-ID: <000d01c2772a$ef129760$696dfea9@downstairs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20021018135122.176C61E1EDE@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9J4lanC023573 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:49:38 -0400 Status: RO You are so right about this being a wonderful resource. I am lucky enough to have 3 copies (modern reprint, original French and miniature French version in a sleeve). Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of jane@williams.nildram.co.uk Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 10:51 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery book information Joy Shillaker wrote : > Does anyone know anything about a little embroidery book,'Encyclopedia > of > Needlework by TH. de Dillmont please? > My Father recently had a sort out and gave me some of my late Mum's sewing > things. This book was amongst them It's packed with informationon all kinds > of neeedlework including needle lace. In the introduction to plain sewing it > > says 'What is the use of all this information about handsewing now > that > machine stitching has so nearly superceded work done by hand?' so I reckon > it may be early 20th century? Google is wonderful! "The Complete DMC Encyclopedia of Needlework by Thérèse de Dillmont was originally published over a century ago. The fact that it is still in print will tell you a lot about how good it is. This needlework classic is one of the best and most complete guides to almost every form of embroidery (not to mention knitting, tatting, macramé, etc.). This should be considered a must-have book if you are interested in a number of different needlework techniques." But it *has* been reprinted a lot. So your copy may not be as old as all that :( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 03:08:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13018 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:08:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J7863Y012855; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J781nC027095; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J77CnC026906 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p729-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.221] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 182nhU-0002kG-00; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 20:07:10 +1300 Message-ID: <001b01c2773e$23c92e20$ddc2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <41.255c5c46.2ae20cf2@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1836 dresses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 20:06:59 +1300 Status: RO > The shoulders are extended quite a bit which I'm assuming is design related > as opposed to functional, but why are the armholes so small? A couple of > notations I've read make reference to "restricted arm movement due to the > tight armhole" but I haven't been able to find out why they were designed > that way. Did it have something to do with a general lady-like demeanor? Actually a smaller armhole with a well designed sleeve head has a greater range of movement than a deep one. Most of the off the rack jackets/blouses etc now have a long armhole with a sleeve head that is very steep too.. this means when you lift your arms the top goes up too. If you wre to have a less step or shaped sleeve head there would be a lot of bulk under the arm. If you make a smaller armhole and have a less shaped sleeve head you have little bulk under the arm and good range of movement. I found this our for myself when redesigning my replica of Christine's wedding dress from Phantom of the Opera. http://recital.tripod.com/costume/weddingdress.htm The bodice has tight half length sleeves with a tight cuirasse bodice. When I was redoing it for the last time (I hope!) I had to redo the sleeves as I'd tightened them correctly but I had to redesign the sleeve head. I can raise my arms above shoulder high now:) I simply made it less deep and had the inner seam behave almost like it had a built in gusset. The lowered shoulders are more likely to cause limited range of movement, while sleeves are fitting at the top of the arm, they are quite full below. Mind you there's small and there's *small*;) I'm planning on making a dress of about this era from some silk chiffon I have. I need to organise a good foundation fabric and stuff for the skirts, but I think I know where I'm heading:) Do you have Nancy Bradfield's Costume in Detail 1730-1930? There are a number of images in there. The waist was undergoing a bit of change, not only lowering from the 1820s but starting to have a pointed waist for the 1840s, so a bit of variation is bound to happen in a year like 1836:) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 04:46:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03935 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:46:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J8k33Y017595; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J8k1nC017299; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J8jTnC017186 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.35]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H4800H7Z0BSTP@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:45:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corsetted Driving Problem In-reply-to: <3DB03536.AEA73B29@rcn.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021019011651.00c9adb0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20021018083203.24790.88768.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:17:22 -0700 Status: RO Better would be to get my Volvo fixed, and not drive in the corset. >This one I can answer. > >A solution to your problem of your back being this way corsetted ( and your >seat back being this way ), for a sitting problem like this: > () is a back support cushion. > >Stopgap (as it were) measure--fold and/or roll up a towel or three and >fill in the gap, >so you don't have to strain your torso sitting up all by yourself in a >reclining seat. > >I need a back support cushion all the time in my car, as I have an extreme >sway back and prominent buttocks to boot. > >I need no more when corsetted (mid-late nineteenth century). >I have a nineteenth century figure already, so I guess that's no big >surprise. > >Price--erm, under US$30 (?). It's been a while. > > >Ann in CT > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 04:47:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03939 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:47:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J8kM3Y017607; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J8kLnC017378; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J8jUnC017190 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.35]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H4800H7Z0BSTP@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:45:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:breathing in corsets In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021019011806.00c98100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:21:02 -0700 Status: RO >I'm not so sure about this... I have a big ribcage (so I've been told) ie >I can see my ribs, and my waist is small in comparison to, say, my hips >(English Pear, oh that phrase was just MADE for me.. which is why I'm >obsessed with Victorian costume.. boost the bust, emphasise the waist, >ignore the hips. Perfect.) Anyway, to get any kind of waist reduction in a >corset, even an inch or two, I'm restricting my breathing. My friend, on >the other hand, who I recently made a corset for, is "squashier" than I am >and could reduce by 3-4 inches quite happily without feeling any >discomfort. I think it is down to individual anatomy rather than the >corset construction. Individual anatomy determines how the corset is fitted in the first place. If you have trouble breathing in the corset you are wearing, (a) it wasn't fitted correctly, and (b) it restricts you too much. Some people won't be able to get waist reduction out of their corsets. But they will get the right period shape for the period of the corset. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 05:26:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04027 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:26:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J9Q33Y019032; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J9Q1nC021990; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f55.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J9PmnC021911 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:25:42 -0700 Received: from 217.45.67.149 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:25:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [217.45.67.149] From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2002 09:25:42.0816 (UTC) FILETIME=[7F187200:01C27751] Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kendra's website Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:25:42 +0100 Status: RO Just wanted to second this – Kendra, I love your website! Kate >I found this list via Kendra Van Cleave's "Demode" site during an internet >search for information and pictures of 1836, American styled cotton >dresses. (By the way Kendra if you are around, your site is fabulous and >very helpful) _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!  Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 05:58:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04089 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:58:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J9v23Y019967; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J9v1nC027422; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9J9uYnC027340 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:56:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9J9wgB25512.; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:58:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:56:32 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] further light on renspecs discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9J9uYnC027340 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:56:18 +0100 Status: RO With reference to spectacles for distance not having been used in the Renaissance era... I heard someone say on the radio the other day that there had been a very low incidence of short-sightedness among the Inuit *until* they started teaching the children to read, suggesting that you need both a genetic predisposition for it *and* to have been made to do close work as a child. So possibly there were few short-sighted people in Renaissance Europe except among the educated classes. It must have been extremely difficult for anyone who was very myopic to have managed without any correction at all, though! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 07:37:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04376 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 07:37:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JBb53Y022704; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JBb1nC016827; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f25.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JBa1nC016633 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:35:55 -0700 Received: from 80.3.160.4 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:35:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.160.4] From: "Joy Shillaker" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2002 11:35:55.0836 (UTC) FILETIME=[B004AFC0:01C27763] Subject: [h-cost] re embroidery book Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:35:52 +0000 Status: RO Thankyou for the useful comments about Mum's book. My father(who will be 100 in 2004) said that it had belonged to his Mum,born in 1879, so I guess it's quite old, It certainly looks it. Being British and almost 50, it's true about girls being taught to sew and knit at school. Friday afternoons the boys would go and play football while the girls had their sewing lesson. I used to love it. In Grammar school we had a 'flat' in the school where we practised domestic skills. I remember one of my lessons was to 'prepare my brother a lunch of omelette and cocoa and to wash and iron his shirt'. A friend kept muttering in class about how, if she had a brother, she would make him get his own bl**dy lunch and would strangle him with his shirt. We both got detentions and lost house points for that. My friend went on to lecture in Women's studies.(I didn't;-)) regards Joy _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 10:04:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04889 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:04:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JE453Y027546; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 08:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JE41nC014245; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 08:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JE3WnC014090 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 08:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0303.dialsprint.net ([63.184.193.49] helo=faucet.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 182uCO-00011k-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 07:03:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3DB173EE.3B0E07E9@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking some nice Irish linen... References: <20021015.115523.-225621.2.ysabiau@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:02:05 -0500 Status: RO Christine Wright wrote: > > Greetings to all, > > Sorry for cross-posting to so many, but I'm looking for some _really_ > nice, very lightweight Irish linen to make a period Elizabethan shirt out > of for my husband (and Christmas is coming much too quickly!). Have you tried Burnley & Trowbridge? Although they do have a website (http://www.burnleyandtrowbridge.com/), their catalog is not yet online. They will, however, send samples (at least they used to), and I've seen some gorgeous hankie linen from them. Their number is 757-253-1644 or you can email them at info@burnleyandtrowbridge.com. Good luck Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 13:39:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05604 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 13:39:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JHcB3Y005410; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JHc08D001709; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f33.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JHb58D001504 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:37:00 -0700 Received: from 68.6.212.114 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 17:36:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.6.212.114] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fall and Winter projects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2002 17:37:00.0093 (UTC) FILETIME=[20EBF6D0:01C27796] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 17:36:59 +0000 Status: RO Well, living in San Diego, our "cold Winter nights" don't really get that cold, but that doesn't mean we don't have Winter projects! I have a couple of plans that need to be ready by the Spring... I just found out that I'm pregnant so I've got to rethink my entire Faire wardrobe. I'm glad we've had so many recent discussions about this as I should be able to easily find them again in the archives. I should be really huge by that time so it's going to be fun! So with a new baby in the works, this brings on a lot of projects. I've got to find a new place to live - hopefully a house. I don't think I can subject my (apartment) neighbors to the torture of a baby living next door. Then there's all these baby clothes and decorating ideas that I've got swimming around in my head, not to mention making maternity clothes! My husband also has a project or two for me. He has this old leather jacket that he LOVES. I can't convince him to get a new one. Unfortunatly the pocket seams have ripped out and some of the other seams are on their last leg. He wants me to either repair it or use it as a pattern and make one EXACTLY the same. So I've got that whole mess to work with... Then his Spring Faire clothes need revamping too. He was scheduled for a new look this year and I can't let that slide. He always chides me that I spend so much time on my costume that I just throw his together. He's kind of right. He doesn't look that bad, but I've been neglecting his a little bit. My excuse is that he can't ever decide what he likes so I'm hesitant to spend time and money on making something that he doesn't want to wear... OK, there are some issues that we need to work out on this one. Anyway, I'm excited to start working on these projects! I've got a lot to do and don't really know when I'll be able to fit it all in between working full time and going to school full time... Ay-carumba! I'm feeling busy all ready! What are the projects other people have planned? :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 16:11:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06325 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 16:11:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JKA53Y011659; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JKA18D004241; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9JK908D004025 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.35]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H4800ECQVYZPM@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 13:09:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery book information In-reply-to: <20021018.085249.-113583.8.Cley@juno.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021019114402.04e64100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 12:52:50 -0700 Status: RO I keep the Reader's Digest book about embroidery for teaching me new embroidery stitches or techniques I am just learning. It's a beginner-level book with detailed pictures of every step, and I wouldn't part with it. But I have Dillmont, and others, to tell me what my historical needlework should look like. It was very useful when I wanted to know how I should be holding my crochet hook when doing Victorian crochet in character (she shows it held like a pencil, over the index finger, by hands with 1880s cuffs at their wrists). When I am making Victorian or Edwardian garments, I look in my historical needlework books (paperback reprints, all) to see what the lace should look like, before I go shopping for modern substitutes. The books are usually specific about what kind of lace was for underwear and what kind was for dresses. Godeys' needlework reprints have period examples of needlework projects I can be seen doing at Victorian events, with minimal instructions that are usually enough to give me a clue. They show examples of little needlework thingies for furnishing sewing baskets, like pincushions and sewing-thread-spool holders. When completed, these are period-looking hand-props that can use at these same events, like slip-covers for (paperback) books, reading-glasses cases, change purses, key cases, tote bags, baby bonnets, socks, etc.. The originals claim that some of these things items are appropriate as gifts, but that was over 100 years ago. >My edition of Dillmont says it was first printed in 1884. > >I second the comments given below. I've had that problem too. > > I think it was published in the late 19th c. I have a reprint of > > it; it's ok, but the instructions aren't that great -- I think they > > assume a certain amount of knowledge that a modern sewer might not >have, and > > if I wanted instructions on, say, lacemaking, I'd be better off looking > > in a book specifically on that subject, rather than relying on the > > sketchy instructions in Dillmont. > > > > That being said, it's still not a bad thing to have. > > > Does anyone know anything about a little embroidery > > book,'Encyclopedia of > > > Needlework by TH. de Dillmont please? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 23:08:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08011 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:08:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K3863Y027789; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K381sN026076; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K37LsN025948 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234948pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.182.133]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4900ASXFC3FN@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:07:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3DB21DF1.6070400@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 References: <20021017050300.20114.6286.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] A *slightly* different dressmaker's dummy question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:07:29 -0400 Status: RO Has anyone out there had any experience in padding dummies so that various um... squishy lumps bumps and other areas are appropriately padded out on the dummy? Just generically taking various measurements (that I can figure out) and padding out to those places does nothing to make the dummy actually have the right shape to use for me. My family tends to have women who, even when relatively thin (which I'm not), have a tendency to have a tummy and figure that appears to be a few months into pregnancy... and then there's the whole after baby "apron" thing that just won't go away (yeah, TMI in general, but relevant to the problem). If I pad to the straight measurements, the garment won't hang/fit right when actually on me, but I can't figure out how to change it so that the sides will be in the right places, the waist smaller as it is, but the other lumps and bumps put where they belong (not to mention that between the two kids, age and genetics so that they never were quite right, the bust on my dummy is just "wrong" for any period past or present for my shape). I'd kinda actually like to use the dummy, since my family bought a decent one for me... about 15 years ago... and it's still in my parents' attic for lack of other use (I think it helped my mom with *one* outfit for my then teen-aged sister once). Any ideas? Or should I just give it up? -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 23:17:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08061 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:17:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K3H63Y028070; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:17:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K3H5sN027740; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K3GfsN027630 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.187.57.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.187.57]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1836a0-0006JM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:16:41 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> References: <3DACBEED.E56E65C4@in-tch.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fall and Winter projects Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 19:37:16 -0700 Status: RO At 7:20 PM -0600 10/15/02, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Something I said in a reply to another message made me wonder....Does >anyone out there (besides me) like to plan nice, long fall/winter >projects? I'm not necessarily referring to things that have to be done >for a specific winter event, but something to while away the long, dark >hours many of us are facing with oncoming winter. I've pretty much committed myself to making a completely new set of Elizabethan under-gear -- I think I'm going to be commissioning a new gown, and anyway the old stuff is all falling to bits after eight years or so. I need everything from smocks/shirts to petticoats to caps to a new farthingale -- fortunately I've already bought most of the linen for everything, but bending over tables cutting out large pieces of fabric is not my favorite thing to do, especially since my lower back doesn't like me very much at the moment. Other than that I've got a couple of research projects and am slowly working on assembling web pages for several of my projects. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Oct 19 23:49:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08206 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:49:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K3n23Y029462; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K3n1sN003943; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K3mKsN003824 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:48:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 66-44-6-119.s1643.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.6.119] helo=oldwaylane.net) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18374d-0007ZO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:48:19 -0400 Message-ID: <3DB22AE2.5030703@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] A *slightly* different dressmaker's dummy question References: <20021017050300.20114.6286.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3DB21DF1.6070400@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:02:42 -0400 Status: RO Liz / Cozit wrote: > Has anyone out there had any experience in padding dummies so that > various um... squishy lumps bumps and other areas are appropriately > padded out on the dummy? yup, just padded out my second one on Friday. > I'd kinda actually like to use the dummy, since my family bought a > decent one for me... about 15 years ago... and it's still in my parents' > attic for lack of other use (I think it helped my mom with *one* outfit > for my then teen-aged sister once). what kind of dummy (mannequin or dress form for some of the internationalists) do you have? > Any ideas? Or should I just give it up? I have a FAbulous Fit and an Uniquely YOu. IN both cases I started with wraps that of 1/5" upholstery batting (stuff you get off a giant roll). I shaped a skirt (conelike, like a christmas tree skirt) and pinned that from the waist down. Then I reached under and added a few pads in the appropriate places for my um, behind. then I took a few front measurements, tucked under the skirt and added a few long rolls for the um, stomach rolls. Then I moved on to the top half. I made a sort of bustier shape with a bit of a lower dip in the front, that fit a bust shape and wrapped around to the back. Pinned that all vaguely in place, and then added a little bits of stuffing for the side bust rolls. (hey, remember, I'm a 2x. YMMY). Mostly I was measuring around the back from side to side and around the front from side to side because things aren't always distributed evenly! So on top of all this, I tried a trick they just discussed over on h-costume, I wrapped ace bandages around the whole thing to even it out and smooth it and make it nicer. Looks good, seems to fit my shape better (think this one is a bit busty on top though, gotta check). Anyway, this is what I did on the Uniquely You. The Fabulous has to be done a little differently because it comes with shaped foam pads and a very tight jersey that pulls over everything. That has to be worked from the top down, because you pull the really tight jersey cover down as you go, and just reach up underneath to tuck the pads or any additional shaping you are putting in. But they are the ones who came up with the idea of the batting skirt and bustier. I just copied the design for my second dress form. So yes, you can pad up dressforms, you just need some sort of covering that will hold it tightly in place as a surface layer. -Judy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 02:40:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08771 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 02:40:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K6e43Y004791; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K6e1sN004386; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K6dXsN004284 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:39:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021020063928.KLOG22897.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 06:39:28 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c27803$6f9313a0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <41.255c5c46.2ae20cf2@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1836 dresses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:39:26 -0700 Status: RO Hi Angela, I'm glad to hear that you've enjoyed my website! To answer your questions: The restrictive armhole was thought to create a demure, sloping shoulder. Look at this fashion plate: http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/1833a.jpg -- even the woman in the off-the-shoulder evening gown has incredibly sloping shoulders. It was all part of the dome shaped gothic arch that would dominate women's fashions in the 1840s. Next, I've always seen 1830's skirts with even waistlines (unless the front has a V, of course). I just glanced through Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashions_ and all of the 1830's dresses have even waistlines. I second the recommendation of Bradfield's _Costume in Detail_ for this period, by the way. Finally, I believe that petticoats could be worn at the raised waistline. I've seen some evidence for petticoats that had a bodice sewn to them, which would allow the petticoat to be worn at the raised waistline and also give the wearer something to which to attach her sleeve puffs. There is a great image of a modern model wearing c. 1825-35 underwear (corded petticoat, chemise, bustle, sleeve puffs, pocket, and cap) on pg. 482 of Blanche Payne's _The History of Costume_. Interestingly, the model wears her petticoats at her natural waist but ties her bustle higher up, just about under the bust. This would create bulk under the skirt back, but not the skirt front. Good luck with your projects! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 05:36:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09846 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 05:36:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K9YF3Y009293; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K9Y3sN001923; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K9XFsN001738 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p36-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.212.36] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 183CSP-0001x7-00; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:33:14 +1300 Message-ID: <000f01c2781b$bcee9e40$24d4adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <41.255c5c46.2ae20cf2@aol.com> <000c01c27803$6f9313a0$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1836 dresses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:33:23 +1300 Status: RO > Next, I've always seen 1830's skirts with even waistlines (unless the front > has a V, of course). I just glanced through Janet Arnold's _Patterns of > Fashions_ and all of the 1830's dresses have even waistlines. I second the > recommendation of Bradfield's _Costume in Detail_ for this period, by the > way. In Bradfield's book a few drawings do look like the waist curves up a bit at the waist, but I'm wondering if that's from the angle of the POV. The one that fits in this era is on page 169-170 (1837-18640 muslin). Looking at it too it really looks like that waist section was added to give the bodice extra length. It's not mentioned as a possibility though and the sleeves don't look like they've been altered as they match the neckline too much. This is one that's inspiring my 1830s dress:) I think the pleating of the top of the sleeves and the neckline would work well with the silk. I'm thinking of a mix of that and a painting I've seen of a young Queen Victoria (I think) with a softly pointed waist. And then there was a very old book of photos and patterns with a lovely square necked linen gown that might work too.... On page 163-164 (1836-1837 silk) though she does suggest the wide waist band was a later insertion on that gown. On page 137 (1827-28 cotton) looks more like is does genuinely have a slight upward curve. And a much later date (1868 muslin) on page 221-22 also looks like it has a genuine up curve too. Could these though be less of a design feature than the weight of the skirts over time pulling the smooth waist line out of shape? michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 05:43:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09862 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 05:43:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K9gB3Y009441; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K9g1sN003288; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f64.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9K9fEsN003177 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:41:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 02:41:09 -0700 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:41:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] A *slightly* different question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2002 09:41:09.0182 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1AA6DE0:01C2781C] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 02:41:09 -0700 Status: RO Has anyone out there had any experience in padding dummies so that >>various um... squishy lumps bumps and other areas are appropriately padded >>out on the dummy? > > yup, just padded out my second one on Friday. > So yes, you can pad up dressforms, you just need some sort of covering >that will hold it tightly in place as a surface layer. > > -Judy I have the motherly(mother Pear) shape too so I did a lot of comparative measuring to adjust all the dials etc to get as close as possible to my underlying body. The part without the squishy. Then shaped and added from there. I actually found a fairly inexpensive bra that was the right shape for my bust and put it on my form. Then I padded it with, I'm so embarrassed, wool socks. They were handy and just the right size. One pair per boob and arranged so they were shaped right. I used a long sleeved stretch bodysuit to hold it all together and just reached up the leg holes to add my hips and fabric scraps from my cutting area to fill in the belly bag. I can fill in the sleeves if I want to get a better idea of what a sleeve will look like. Once I had eyeballed the bumps etc most of the way I kind of double checked by feel. Put my hand on my hip, then on the form, and adjust so the distribution feels right. Then check the next area of padding to see how it matches the real me. I'm pretty tactile so it may not help everyone, but if something isn't "quite" right I'd be more likely to feel a smaller difference once the major ones are smoothed out. It looked great in my gowns until I took it to an event as a display in my booth and it fell over a dozen or so times, in spite of being staked to the ground. I've decided I'm going to make a bodystocking/tube thing to recover it and actually buy some batting or stuffing so my honey can have the socks. guilty grins Once I get it all right again I'm thinking about making duct tapes of the dress form and just closing them back up and foam filling it to put the gowns on for pictures/displays. That way I wont have to keep readjusting the dress form because it got squished in the truck or the padding shifted in the packing/unpacking process. Now for the question; how do those of you who sell/merchant store, transport, and display your wears? I still can't find a method that works smoothly and efficiently. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 07:54:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10559 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 07:54:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KBs53Y012288; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 05:54:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KBs2sN023311; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 05:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KBr3sN023143 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 05:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host217-34-83-32.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.83.32] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 183Edh-0001S3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:53:01 +0100 Message-ID: <004001c2782f$ba148c20$205322d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] barrel corset Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:56:29 +0100 Status: RO Hi all, An h-cost member whose name I can't find:-) wrote: > I'm a singer and a friend of mine designed a barrel corset to hold up a > very heavy and gorgeous Italian Renaissance gown that I had to be able to > sing in. The thing was so well done that it held up the dress and did not > confine my floating ribs or musclature. It also did not squish the upper > part of my frontage. :) This is fascinating! Due to severe lung disease I cannot wear anything which constricts my breathing in any way, and this looks like the only way I am going to be able to wear Elizabethan. Does anyone have specifics on how these are made, and/or details of people able to do it? Best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 11:31:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00682 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:31:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KEA33Y015524; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 08:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KEA1sN015812; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 08:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KE9IsN015664 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 08:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.84.49482a (16930) for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:09:10 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <84.49482a.2ae41305@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1836 dresses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:09:09 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 10/20/02 2:41:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kendrav@attbi.com writes: << Next, I've always seen 1830's skirts with even waistlines >> Yes, You must remember that when examining actual period dresses, they were not "ready to wear" but made for a specific person. That individual's posture and body type may have necessitated some not so usual lines to fit properly. Start with a straight waist and adjust to fit. Having the armseye cut high up under the arm is a detail of silhouette that can really [though I admit subtly] clinch the "this is real" look you obviously want. But if it's for theatre, be sure the actress can do what she needs to do on stage! [As you may already know, the director may want her to hail a cab or to a cartwheel...at the same time!] There used to be this great catalogue from the Kyoto museum called "The EVOLUTION [not revolution] in Fashion" It had lots of 1830s dresses in it. God, are they lovely! Fashion plates can't compare! I remember noticing that the skirts were not all that full. Maybe 31/2 yards at the ankle length hem. And the pouffy sleeves were not excessive either. These did not look diminished, but made the gowns delicate and exquisite. I suggest you find a mock up fabric as close to the real fabric's weight [most in the catalogue were very light] as you can and experiment with fullness. BTW...I think there are pictures from "The Evolution in Fashion" on Kyoto's web site. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 11:32:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00696 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:32:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KDn93Y014955; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 07:49:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KDn4sN012133; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 07:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KDm8sN011953 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 07:48:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-009scfairp0121.dialsprint.net ([63.189.144.121] helo=faucet.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 183GR4-0005pY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 06:48:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3DB2C1D3.387F8DA2@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset free costuming... References: <004801c27831$d4fbd640$205322d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:46:42 -0500 Status: RO Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Since I should like to defer my own need for a lung transplant for as > long as possible I am looking for periods when corsetry was minimal or > non-existent. > So far I have > late 18th early 19th, and > Robin's period. This may not be the technical term, but everyone knows > what I mean:-) Well, anything pre-16th century (with the possible exception of the ancient Minoans) or post-1960 will be corset-free. Also the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s (they did wear girdles, but those shouldn't impair your lung capacity!). If you're into the 19th century, there is always Aesthetic dress, about which there are a couple of recent h-cost posts. For several links, look up Melanie Wilson's post entitled "Indian influence in victorian costume." > I should be most grateful for suggestions for period, books and urls. If you'll let us know which specific period interests you, I'm sure you'll get plenty of suggestions for references. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 11:34:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00707 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:34:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KC933Y012610; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 06:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KC92sN025808; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 06:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KC86sN025670 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 06:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host217-34-83-32.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.83.32] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 183EsH-0002xS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:08:06 +0100 Message-ID: <004801c27831$d4fbd640$205322d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Corset free costuming... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:11:33 +0100 Status: RO Hi all, having recently re-emerged yet again from the Royal Brompton National Heart and Lung Hospital (usually known as the Brompton for obvious reasons) I found the thread on corsetry and breathing of deep personal interest. Some of the apparent anomalies relate to the fact that a healthy human being has surplus lung capacity, which is why the parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis can donate chunks of lung for transplant without any measurable effect on their own lung function. It makes a huge difference to the children, of course. Since I should like to defer my own need for a lung transplant for as long as possible I am looking for periods when corsetry was minimal or non-existent. So far I have late 18th early 19th, and Robin's period. This may not be the technical term, but everyone knows what I mean:-) I should be most grateful for suggestions for period, books and urls. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 11:34:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00710 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:34:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KC523Y012532; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 06:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KC51sN025175; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 06:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (smtp.netins.net [167.142.225.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KC44sN024998 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 06:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [167.142.13.223] (HELO hppav) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 157360447 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 07:04:03 -0500 Message-ID: <006301c27830$cfbb09e0$df0d8ea7@hppav> From: "Land of Oz" To: References: <20021017050300.20114.6286.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3DB21DF1.6070400@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A *slightly* different dressmaker's dummy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 07:04:15 -0500 Status: RO I adjusted my dressmaker's form to my measurements as closely as possible, then covered the whole thing with a teeshirt that fit me snugly. Then I stuffed quilt batting and poly fill into the places that needed it. I rarely sew anything that is extremely close fitting, so it doesn't have to be perfect, but I did find that the batting got compressed over time and more has to be added. An added advantage to the teeshirt covering, is the arm hole placement. I know the teeshirt fits me snugly, including the arms, so it's easier to estimate a comfortable arm hole with the tee than using the form's arm. (who decided that a plus size dress form should have an upper arm the size of a 12-year old?) hope that helps Denise landofoz@netins.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 11:44:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00747 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:44:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KFh63Y018078; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:43:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KFh2sN002187; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KFg3sN002023 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be56.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.86]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CFA426448C for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:41:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c2784f$ad20e980$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <004001c2782f$ba148c20$205322d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] barrel corset MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:45:11 +0200 Status: RO Dear Stevie. I am sure it would be possible to make an elizabethan corset for you, wich didnt have any influence in your lung funktions. This would be a corset that gives you the right shape, but dont compress your waist- bust. I think it would be possible to make that. It would be such a shame, that this should prevent you from your favourite reenacting period. The same thing shoudl be possible for all other periods. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 1:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] barrel corset > Hi all, > > An h-cost member whose name I can't find:-) wrote: > > > I'm a singer and a friend of mine designed a barrel corset to hold > up a > > very heavy and gorgeous Italian Renaissance gown that I had to be > able to > > sing in. The thing was so well done that it held up the dress and > did not > > confine my floating ribs or musclature. It also did not squish the > upper > > part of my frontage. :) > > This is fascinating! Due to severe lung disease I cannot wear anything > which constricts my breathing in any way, and this looks like the only > way I am going to be able to wear Elizabethan. Does anyone have > specifics on how these are made, and/or details of people able to do > it? > > Best wishes > Stevie > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 11:48:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00758 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:48:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KFm33Y018284; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KFm2sN003148; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KFl4sN002924 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:47:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07355 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:52:15 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset free costuming... In-Reply-To: <004801c27831$d4fbd640$205322d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:52:15 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > ...I am looking for periods when corsetry was minimal or non-existent. > So far I have late 18th early 19th, and Robin's period. This may not > be the technical term, but everyone knows what I mean:-) !!! > I should be most grateful for suggestions for period, books and urls. > best wishes Periods: "My" period (about 1350-1480) is quite fitted, though not stiffly restrictive. If you want something looser, there's most of the Middle Ages, before 1330 or so (with a small period of fitting in the 12th century, but involving less of the figure than later). Or move to Italy, where the line is different -- still structured/contained but not figure-manipulating to the extent you see in 14th/15th c. Western Europe. Books: I go for art books rather than costume books, but for 14th/15th c., try Stella Mary Newton's "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince" and Margaret Scott's "Late Gothic Europe" (from the Visual History of Fashion series) as starters. Blanche Payne for good general overview. Read all of these with a shaker of salt, as with all costume books; all make statements that can and will be disputed elsewhere, but there's simply a lot we don't know and can't answer. Naomi Tarrant and Geoffrey Squires have written useful and thought-provoking analyses on silhouette development, but I can't remember which books I found these in. They're somewhere in my Xeroxes. URLs: You might find something useful in my fitting tips -- . --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 11:49:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00763 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:49:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KFmK3Y018306; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:48:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KFmHsN003207; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9KFlKsN002967 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OjLwpTZsNPIX9waBekEOCFE="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HFKWUCDG; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:47:11 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] barrel corset Message-ID: <20021020.084656.-113583.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-26 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 08:40:22 +0000 Status: RO Good luck Stevie! :-) I don't costume at all, but I'm sure there are people who can tell you how to make one. Mine was actually quite comfortable, and like most female singers, I breathe clear down to the base of the pelvic bones. Arlys > This is fascinating! Due to severe lung disease I cannot wear > anything > which constricts my breathing in any way, and this looks like the > only > way I am going to be able to wear Elizabethan. Does anyone have > specifics on how these are made, and/or details of people able to do > it? > > Best wishes > Stevie > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 12:29:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01022 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:29:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KGT23Y019987; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KGT0xY011602; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KGSrxY011573 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:28:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g9KGSEjq012506 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:28:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200210201628.g9KGSEjq012506@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] robin's fabric store -- Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I was wondering if anyone had the URL for the fabric store Robin works at, that has all that great wool? I'm in need of some, and I don't have all my bookmarks on this computer. oops. .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 12:51:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01104 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:51:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KGp23Y020755; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KGp0xY016530; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KGobxY016441 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07580 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:55:49 -0500 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] robin's fabric store -- In-Reply-To: <200210201628.g9KGSEjq012506@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:55:49 -0500 (CDT) Status: RO On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: > I was wondering if anyone had the URL for the fabric store Robin works > at, that has all that great wool? I honestly don't know whether there's a difference in the sites; I think they're identical. There are a few new worsteds in. I am now lusting after the teal worsted, which is just a shade too green for the project I'm on, but the weight is perfect. It's a twill weave, too, and really soft. Some of the other new worsteds are even lighter weight, including a heather grey and a very very dark green (almost black). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 12:54:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01125 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:54:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KGs13Y020887; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KGs1xY017085; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KGrNxY016954 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g9KGqhrL012636 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:52:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200210201652.g9KGqhrL012636@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] robin's fabric store -- To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Robin Netherton" at Oct 20, 2002 11:55:49 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO I'm looking for something for a modern suit (for school - sorry not costuming). these look pretty good! thank you .heather. > > > On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Heather Meadows wrote: > > > I was wondering if anyone had the URL for the fabric store Robin works > > at, that has all that great wool? > > > > > I honestly don't know whether there's a difference in the sites; I think > they're identical. > > There are a few new worsteds in. I am now lusting after the teal worsted, > which is just a shade too green for the project I'm on, but the weight is > perfect. It's a twill weave, too, and really soft. Some of the other new > worsteds are even lighter weight, including a heather grey and a very very > dark green (almost black). > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 14:39:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01859 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:39:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KId23Y025064; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KId0xY010093; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:39:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KIcCxY009887 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4A004Q6MFIQA@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:38:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] A *slightly* different dressmaker's dummy question To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DB2F43A.8050403@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:21:46 -0500 Status: RO I made permanent shapes for those flabby hangovers, in my house they are called poochy pillows ... got them on my back, on the sides and my lower stomach area big time. My not quite four year old grandaughter was over when I was stuffing a dress dummy this summer for myself, was asking what I was putting under the cover.. I said they were little stuffing things for my tummy, so I could make myself a dress and it would fit me better....She looks at me, looks at the pillow, looks at me again... says..(with all the wisdom a four year old can muster) .. grandmother, if those are your poochy spots, they are not little, your pooches are big and soft. So she now calls them poochy pillows, and it is a topic of conversation when she comes over when I am sewing, wanting to know if I am going to use my poochy pillows or not. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 14:43:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01897 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:43:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KIh13Y025252; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KIh0xY010964; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KIgZxY010811 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Everydayele@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 7.f.6f8dc6 (14374) for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:42:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Everydayele@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10636 Subject: [h-cost] 1836 dress, thanx Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:42:19 EDT Status: RO Hi Michaela, Kendra and AlbertCat, Thanks so much for your input. I just received my copy of "Costume in Detail", and ordered today on Amazon, a copy of Janet Arnold's book and "After a Fashion" as well. The Bradfield book is extremely helpful. I am using info from dresses on pages 163-172 to help me draft the pattern for the dress I'm working on. The actual sample was completely made by hand and is approximately 45 years old and in rough condition. It is a simple enough design that I have been able to rub off the bodice onto muslin, and compare it to a contemporary fitted bodice block. The designer wants modern standard sizing, and the actors are not going to wear corsets, however he wants them to still "look" like the period. I've taken my rub-off and transferred the details to a size 8 block. I've decided to make the waist level, all around, and 2" above natural waist line. The tight bodice has a lining that I'm making up in a light weight canvas, to sort of control the shape since no corsets will be worn. The dress itself will be made from a cotton print that the designer has provided--similar hand to a soft muslin. The skirt, sleeve an d some of the controlled fulness in the bodice calls for tiny cartridge pleating, which I'll do by hand, but the rest of the dress will be machine sewn. Michaela, I've had fun fiddling with that tight sleeve versus arm mobility, and brides wanting to do the "Y.M.C.A." at their receptions but still look nice with their arms down, dilemma as well. (By the way Christine's wedding gown is lovely) But my concern was the tight armhole isn't in it's normal position of following the armscye, but it is high under the arm at the side body, then curves out sharp and low as it drops from the shoulder, so it's being worn high on the bicep. I'm going to duplicate the armhole as is on my pattern, then run it by the designer and see if he wants to keep it that way. His original desire was to copy it exactly except update the sizing. These last few days have been an utter adventure! Between hanging out at the library and surfing the web, I feel like I'm cramming for a crash course in costuming :) The gowns I usually make are in current fashion, although I make quite a few corselettes to line strapless gowns and such. Normally I refer out when I get requests for authentic, period clothing because I have only a basic knowledge of the subject. This current project came by way of a former client, and it didn't seem too out of scope, so I took it. Thanks again for all of your ideas, and references and I'll let you know how things are going, as they go! Angela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 14:57:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02006 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:57:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KIv13Y025768; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KIv0xY014074; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9KIuOxY013900 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:56:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19725 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2002 18:56:23 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-70.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.166.66.70) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2002 18:56:23 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01c27869$3c48d320$4642a6d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] robin's fabric store -- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:48:06 -0400 Status: RO http://www.trimfabric.com/ This has no connection with Robin, but I thought their prices on wool were pretty good. Of course, their best deals are for large quanities and you may not need that much for a regular suit. (I need at least 10 yds. to make something medieval, being both tall and wide.) I've ordered from them and had no problems. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 15:43:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02581 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:43:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KJb13Y027122; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KJb0xY022699; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KJa3xY022532 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.35]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H4A00EMDP41Y6@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:36:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1836 dress, thanx In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021020122845.04e2fcd0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:34:35 -0700 Status: RO >The Bradfield book is extremely helpful. I am >using info from dresses on pages 163-172 to help me draft the pattern for the >dress I'm working on. I'm doing something like the one on pp. 165-66 (like Janet Arnold p. 64, 1837-41, right-hand side), for my Dickens' Fair character, a household cook the same age as I am, who still wears it as her best dress ten or fifteen years later. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 19:55:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04824 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:55:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KNs73Y007828; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:54:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KNs1HR019311; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9KNrAHR019104 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.9d.2fc5dc07 (4340) for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:52:58 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <9d.2fc5dc07.2ae49bd9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1836 dress, thanx To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:52:57 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 10/20/02 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Everydayele@aol.com writes: << The designer wants modern standard sizing, and the actors are not going to wear corsets, however he wants them to still "look" like the period. >> How does he expect that? Why can''t they wear corsets? Everyone thinks there this big pain in the ass...er...torso, but they don't have to be. I'd bone the side seams, the CB and shove a small bone into any darts in the fronts. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 22:10:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05429 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:10:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L2823Y014067; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 20:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L281HR019109; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 20:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L276HR018952 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 20:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pool-63.53.184.202.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.184.202]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 183RyC-0002YO-00; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:07:05 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] ISO Santina Levey Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:02:12 -0700 Status: RO Do I remember that there is someone on one of these lists who knows Santina Levey and has a way to contact her? If so, would you please e-mail me privately? I have a question about one of her conclusions in _Lace: A History_, and I'm working on an article where it would be really helpful if I could ask her why she came to the conclusion she did, since in the book she doesn't explain it. Perhaps someone would be willing to relay a question and possible answer? TIA, -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Oct 20 23:41:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05874 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:41:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L3e43Y018284; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L3e1HR009189; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L3drHR009131 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:39:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.114.195be852 (4402) for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:39:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <114.195be852.2ae4d100@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1836 dress, thanx To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:39:44 EDT Status: RO In a message dated 10/20/02 7:55:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << Everyone thinks there this big pain in the ass...er...torso, but they don't have to be. >> Sorry...that's "They're this big pain...." Haste Y'know. and I meant bone the sides of the bodice you make, not a corset. Now that I completely think about it.... a method we used to use in school was to put a bone down the center of each piece of the bodice....by sewing a casing or a strip of Riglene to the flat lining before the fashion fabric was mounted to it. This leaves the seams and seam allowance free to be altered if necessary. Still shove that small bone into the darts though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 01:52:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06430 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 01:52:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L5q33Y023293; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L5q1HR005597; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L5psHR005565 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:51:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A5F9429800EC; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 00:51:53 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A70F23EE0290; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 00:56:31 -0500 Message-ID: <012301c278c5$e71070e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Upcoming Lecture Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 01:51:29 -0400 Status: RO Passing this along: Lecture: Aglets- Fashions of the 16th and 17th Centuries: Farthingales & Tippets When: Nov. 21, 2002, 7:30 PM Where: Agecroft Hall Museum & Gardens 4305 Sulgrave Rd. Richmond, VA 804-353-4241 For more information go to http://www.agecrofthall.com/ and click on lectures from the left menu. If you go, arrive early and tour Agecroft. It was featured on American's Castles on A&E a couple of years ago. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 02:31:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16299 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 02:31:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L6V43Y024537; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 00:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L6V0HR012661; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 00:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9L6UXHR012590 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 00:30:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id AF0965CF00EE; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 01:30:33 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A01E1D6F021A; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 01:35:10 -0500 Message-ID: <013d01c278cb$4c178820$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Weekend Seminar Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 02:30:06 -0400 Status: RO Title: The Presence of the Past: Reuse, Revival, and Renewal in Fashion When: Dec. 5-7, 2002 Sponsored by: New York University, School of Continuing and Professional Studies Seminar location: New York Academy of Medicine To get a brochure or register call: 212-998-7171 or 7150 Fee: $335 plus $20 non-fundable registration fee. A list of the presenters: ***Lisa Koenigsberg- Director of the conference; adjunct professor NYU. Author of several books. ***June Weir- Former VP of Fairchild Publications and fashion editor or editor for the following publications: WWD, W magazine, Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, NY Times, and Mirabella. ***Abbijane-Fashion Designer ***Teri Agins-Senior special writer Wall Street Journal covering the retail and fashion industries. Author of several books. ***Stephen Burrows-Fashion Designer ***Brenda Cullerton-freelance writer, contributing to Harper's Bazaar, 2wice, Details, Self, and Vogue magazines. ***Annette Green-President of the Fragrance Foundation. ***Peter Halley-Artist and co-founder of Index Magazine. ***Cathy Horyn- fashion critic NY Times ***Laura Jacobs-contributing editor, Vanity Fair ***Joan Kaner-Sr. vice president/fashion director Neiman Marcus ***Pamela Clarke-Keogh-author, Audrey Style. ***Harold Koda-curator,The Costume Institute at the MET ***Francois Lesage- President, Lesage ***Pierce B. MacGuire-director, the Schlumberger Collection for Tiffany & Co. ***Elizabeth Mason-author and owner of the Paper Bag Princess, a noted vintage clothing store in LA ***Mary McFadden-Fashion Designer ***Chesley McLauren-Fashion designer and illustrator ***Lars Nillsson-creative director for Bill Blass. ***Ralph Rucci-Fashion designer ***Andy Spade-President and creative director "kate spade handbags" since 1996. ***Valerie Steele- Author and chief curator FIT's Museum. ***Barbara Tfank-Fashion and Costume Designer ***Margaret Walch-Director, The Color Association of the U.S. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 07:59:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24333 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:59:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LBw73Y003584; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LBw0Lo007461; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40012.mail.yahoo.com (web40012.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9LBvOLo007313 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021021115719.24035.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:57:19 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: H-costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Bath Mans & Womens Shirt Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:57:19 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Dear all, As some may remember a few months ago I asked if anyone had any information on the Man's shirt in the musuem of costume at Bath (UK). Well having booked a little holiday there I tried to get an appointment to view the item in question. The original curator was not very helpful directing me to the postcard photograph of the garment and informing me of the opening times. Well I wrote again, only to find that the lady I had originally contacted had since left. The acting curator was more than helpful, and while she still could not arrange for me to look at the item out of the case I was given access to their conservation notes etc. This turned out to be a marvel of information. There was so much information and this time the drawings of the embroidery were accurate and I can be sure that they got the stitches correct after checking it against the garment. Well I also got time to take notes on the Lady's shift there as well but ran out of time before I could deal with the two blackwork jackets there as well, even though they are out of my period of interest. Just had to have my little crow. Rachel. Once I have finished the reproduction of the garment I will be seeking permission to publish the information on the website I am putting together, this will be for free as I am not allowed to profit from the photocopies that I took. Other than that I believe they consider the information to be in the public domain. ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 08:38:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24871 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:38:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LCc23Y005094; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LCc0Lo015028; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LCbqLo015002 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:37:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9LCbpnp022863 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:37:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset free costuming... In-Reply-To: <004801c27831$d4fbd640$205322d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:37:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well, you could also go for looks/periods where boning is minimal, and serves mostly to shape the garments or keep it from wrinkling -- for example, Drea's Flemish Peasant gown doesn't have a lot of boning; the kirtle, if made with a good linen lining and with boning on the lacing edges, can provide a fair amount of support. The boning on the lacing edges mostly serves to keep the edges from riding up and wrinkling; most of your support comes from the gown itself. And looking at that corded Italian Renn bodice (I'm sorry, I can't remember the listmember's name -- it's lovely!) that we've discussed on the list, that's probably not terribly confining, either. For most periods where corsetry was worn, one can get away with a lightly boned or corded set of stays for a lower class look. One generally does need some support to get a period look (just like you need a modern bra to get the right look with most modern clothing), but the look generally won't be as exreme as what very fashionable women were wearing. The problem comes when one is trying to acheive a very fashionable look without the proper support -- the result generally resembles what my mom would call 'an unmade bed'. For that, you're right, you'd want to pick a period where corsetry was at a minimum, if you don't want to wear a corset. I do think, however, that the whole modern fixation on tightlacing is just wrong, wrong, wrong -- I'm sure some women did it, but how on earth did, say, Elizabethans, Victorians, etc. dance so vigorously if they were laced that tightly? I just don't think the average person laced to that extreme, even for fancy dress. -- Mara On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > Since I should like to defer my own need for a lung transplant for as > long as possible I am looking for periods when corsetry was minimal or > non-existent. > So far I have > late 18th early 19th, and > Robin's period. This may not be the technical term, but everyone knows > what I mean:-) > I should be most grateful for suggestions for period, books and urls. > best wishes > Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 09:11:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25181 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:11:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LD913Y006263; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LD90Lo021624; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LD8QLo021499 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9LD8Pnp026509 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:08:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well, am back from St. Mary's City Militia Muster. Great event! Congrats to Mike and Leigh Tartaglio, who walked away with a bunch of awards :) Hat follow-up: I got my hat waterproofed (with Kiwi Protect-all), lined (with a linen band), put a wool twill tape hat band on it, and decorated with a few feathers. Didn't wear it in the rain (yet), so I don't know how the waterproofing will work. Costume review: my 1630s "little Dutch girl" outfit worked very well; the weather ranged from chilly and damp to sunny and mid-60s, which was perfect for wearing several layers of wool. It's a great camp outfit; very versatile and comfortable, easy to work in. A couple people told me I looked like I'd stepped out of an early 17th c. genre painting -- thanks, folks! (blush) I'm very happy that it worked. One thing I wished I'd had was a woolen partlet to go over the linen one, for when it got very chilly. The woolen pin-on sleeves worked pretty well; they added just enough warmth, and were easily removable as the day heated up. I also need to redo my stays, which weren't really snug enough -- I could slouch in them, and found myself doing so too often, so they were a bit uncomfortable. I need to undo the side-back seams and remove some boning. Someone told me I caused a bit of conversation by wearing my partlet over my stays, since English women wore their partlets under their stays, and the women commenting on my partlet hadn't seen them worn over the stays before. Is that true? If so, very interesting, I didn't know that! (Dutch women did, obviously, given the frequency with which they show up in genre art...) One learns something new every day... I also need to work on my leather shoes. They're well-made (from Burnley & Trowbridge), but I must have low ankle bones -- I have the same problem with them that I have with a pair of modern shoes, i.e., the leather hits my ankle bone in a painful way and I need to use a small heel lift insert to wear them. Has anyone seen examples of 17th or 18th c. hatpins, by the way? I have seen one or two 'street cries' type pictures that show some kind of pin, but they're not very detailed, so it's hard to tell what they look like. I probably can't get around to posting pics for a couple of weeks, since I'm going to be on vacation starting Wednesday and away from my computer (yay!), but will do so when I get back. :D Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 10:47:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25842 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:47:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LEkN3Y011817; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LEkMLo021744; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from s890.widexs.nl (s890.widexs.nl [212.204.254.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LEjlLo021482 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by s890.widexs.nl (Postfix, from userid 99) id BA9051C0A3; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:47:18 +0200 (MEST) From: Chiara To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Mans & Womens Shirt References: <20021021115719.24035.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> In-reply-to: <20021021115719.24035.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Host: [199.91.36.254] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: XS2Mail/0.5 (http://www.xs2mail.com/) Message-Id: <20021021144718.BA9051C0A3@s890.widexs.nl> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:47:18 -0000 Status: RO Congratulations on a great opportunity! I look forward to your notes and update to your site with the project. Did you by any chance get to look at anything else at the Bath museum? Chiara On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:57:19 +0100 (BST), Rachel wrote: >Dear all, > >As some may remember a few months ago I asked if anyone had any information on the Man's shirt in >the musuem of costume at Bath (UK). ----snip------- -- XS2Mail: Check your mail anywhere http://www.xs2mail.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 13:15:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30882 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LHE63Y026708; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:14:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LHE1Ke011044; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LHDbKe010763 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:13:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.a1.2f551521 (4362) for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:13:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a1.2f551521.2ae58fb6_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:13:26 EDT Status: RO --part1_a1.2f551521.2ae58fb6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mara is too modest. That lovely Dutch outfit deservedly won first place in working women's clothing at the St. Mary's City Grand Muster. And she DID look just like she walked out of a genre painting. Kathleen Norvell --part1_a1.2f551521.2ae58fb6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mara is too modest. That lovely Dutch outfit deservedly won first place in working women's clothing at the St. Mary's City Grand Muster. And she DID look just like she walked out of a genre painting.

Kathleen Norvell --part1_a1.2f551521.2ae58fb6_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 14:49:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32565 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:49:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LIl43Y005423; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:47:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LIl1Ke001614; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12002.mail.yahoo.com (web12002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9LIkBKe001177 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:46:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021021184611.50599.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.241] by web12002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:46:11 PDT From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Rachel/blackwork questions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Status: RO Please Rachel, crow as much as you please and then let us know when you've added this info to your site, please? Blackwork question.....Blackwork is geometric designs of black on white used for necklines and cuffs? And blackwork is also filling stitches on free-form naturalistic looking flowers? How do you know when to use which one on which garments and where? Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 15:09:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32660 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LJ823Y007040; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:08:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LJ80Ke012195; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LJ7XKe011985 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:07:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bedb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.219]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B36972654D8 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:07:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001c01c27935$1ecf87e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:07:37 +0200 Status: RO And what about all of us who could not come? Dont you think we deserved to se some pictures? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin & Mara Riley" To: "Costume List" Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 3:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up > Well, am back from St. Mary's City Militia Muster. Great event! > Congrats to Mike and Leigh Tartaglio, who walked away with a bunch of > awards :) > > Hat follow-up: I got my hat waterproofed (with Kiwi Protect-all), lined > (with a linen band), put a wool twill tape hat band on it, and decorated > with a few feathers. Didn't wear it in the rain (yet), so I don't know > how the waterproofing will work. > > Costume review: my 1630s "little Dutch girl" outfit worked very well; the > weather ranged from chilly and damp to sunny and mid-60s, which was > perfect for wearing several layers of wool. It's a great camp outfit; > very versatile and comfortable, easy to work in. A couple people told me > I looked like I'd stepped out of an early 17th c. genre painting -- > thanks, folks! (blush) I'm very happy that it worked. > > One thing I wished I'd had was a woolen partlet to go over the linen one, > for when it got very chilly. The woolen pin-on sleeves worked pretty > well; they added just enough warmth, and were easily removable as the day > heated up. I also need to redo my stays, which weren't really snug > enough -- I could slouch in them, and found myself doing so too often, so > they were a bit uncomfortable. I need to undo the side-back seams and > remove some boning. > > Someone told me I caused a bit of conversation by wearing my partlet over > my stays, since English women wore their partlets under their stays, and > the women commenting on my partlet hadn't seen them worn over the stays > before. Is that true? If so, very interesting, I didn't know that! > (Dutch women did, obviously, given the frequency with which they show up > in genre art...) One learns something new every day... > > I also need to work on my leather shoes. They're well-made (from Burnley > & Trowbridge), but I must have low ankle bones -- I have the same problem > with them that I have with a pair of modern shoes, i.e., the leather hits > my ankle bone in a painful way and I need to use a small heel lift insert > to wear them. > > Has anyone seen examples of 17th or 18th c. hatpins, by the way? I have > seen one or two 'street cries' type pictures that show some kind of pin, > but they're not very detailed, so it's hard to tell what they look like. > > I probably can't get around to posting pics for a couple of weeks, since > I'm going to be on vacation starting Wednesday and away from my computer > (yay!), but will do so when I get back. :D > > Cheers, > Mara > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 15:24:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32724 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:24:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LJO53Y008276; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LJO1Ke020297; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LJN4Ke019844 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grendal2 (ip92.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.92]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g9LJMwm28642 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rachel/blackwork questions Message-ID: <3DB3F26C.4483.12992230@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021021184611.50599.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:26:20 -0700 Status: RO > Blackwork question.....Blackwork is geometric > designs of black on white used for necklines and > cuffs? And blackwork is also filling stitches on > free-form naturalistic looking flowers? How do you > know when to use which one > > on which garments and where? > Cassandra Blackwork is actually better described as "monochrome work" since a single color (such as blue, green or red) can be used instead of the black. Blackwork is not only geometric. Freeform varieties of blackwork coexisted with the geometric "counted thread" types from the late 15th century through the early 16th century, on to the late 16thC/early 17th C. As to filling stitches, these seem to be found in later types (such as the late 16th/early 17th C ones, as opposed to the early 16th C ones.) My favorite time period is 1485-1552, as opposed to Elizabethan, so I've really had to look at the differences. Elizabethan stuff has a lot more than my time period. There are a number of books which show how to do blackwork. If you look at the dates on the pieces/designs they show you can get a good idea of when and which garments to use them. (My husband wants to do something, so I don't have time to pull up my bibliography right now. If interested, I can do so later.) Also, many other people on this list are blackwork afficianados. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 16:55:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01222 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:55:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LKs93Y016620; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:54:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LKs15F010242; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LKrW5F009989 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:53:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.124.203]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H4C00ES3ND6IL@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:53:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rachel/blackwork questions In-reply-to: <20021021184611.50599.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021021133253.00d14270@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:34:48 -0700 Status: RO >Please Rachel, crow as much as you please and then let >us know when you've added this info to your site, >please? > Blackwork question.....Blackwork is geometric >designs of black on white used for necklines and >cuffs? And blackwork is also filling stitches on >free-form naturalistic looking flowers? How do you >know when to use which one > >on which garments and where? h-needlework has a lot of blackwork folks on it. There's some overlap between this list and that one. List-Subscribe: , Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 19:01:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01986 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:01:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LN343Y003672; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LN31PS023829; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LN29PS023297 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.62.27582f92 (4196) for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:02:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <62.27582f92.2ae5e169@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_62.27582f92.2ae5e169_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:02:01 EDT Status: RO --part1_62.27582f92.2ae5e169_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/02 6:16:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, drea@nospam writes: > forms for making leather corsets Has anyone ever seen proof for leather corsets in historic fashion? Kit --part1_62.27582f92.2ae5e169_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/02 6:16:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, drea@nospam writes:


forms for making leather corsets


Has anyone ever seen proof for leather corsets in historic fashion?

Kit --part1_62.27582f92.2ae5e169_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 19:12:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02030 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:12:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LNB43Y004879; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LNB0PS027825; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LNA4PS027358 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1bd.11971161 (4196) for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:09:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <1bd.11971161.2ae5e343@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1bd.11971161.2ae5e343_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:09:55 EDT Status: RO --part1_1bd.11971161.2ae5e343_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/02 5:57:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > How about the one that the stock market goes up as hemlines go up? This > actually had a basis in one very small statement of fact, which I can't > dredge up out of the mists of the past, but got to be applied generally. > Ann Wass Please note: this is what I remember a professor stating, and I am not even sure if I am remembering right... Over simplified, it has to do with the fact that in recent years (the last hundred or so) when the economy takes a major dip which causes depression (War, famine/blight, bad worldly economics) the dresses/skirts get less fussy. As the times get leaner the hems get shorter. (WW1, WW2, the Great Depression) As the skirts rise, the stockmarket is slowly gaining ground as we are climbing out of a slump. Really, if this theory is right, it should read, " As hemlines climb, so follows the stockmarket." Kit --part1_1bd.11971161.2ae5e343_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/02 5:57:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes:


How about the one that the stock market goes up as hemlines go up?  This actually had a basis in one very small statement of fact, which I can't dredge up out of the mists of the past, but got to be applied generally.
Ann Wass


Please note: this is what I remember a professor stating, and I am not even sure if I am remembering right...

Over simplified, it has to do with the fact that in recent years (the last hundred or so) when the economy takes a major dip which causes depression (War, famine/blight, bad worldly economics) the dresses/skirts get less fussy.  As the times get leaner the hems get shorter. (WW1, WW2, the Great Depression)  As the skirts rise, the stockmarket is slowly gaining ground as we are climbing out of a slump.  Really, if this theory is right, it should read, " As hemlines climb, so follows the stockmarket."

Kit --part1_1bd.11971161.2ae5e343_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 19:15:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02039 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:15:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LNF33Y005437; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LNF2PS029762; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LNEkPS029568 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:14:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.128.197acc34 (4196) for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:14:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <128.197acc34.2ae5e45b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_128.197acc34.2ae5e45b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:14:35 EDT Status: RO --part1_128.197acc34.2ae5e45b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/02 11:55:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > My younger daughter and I were helping out with Ardenwood's Harvest > Festival today. We went across the street to Jack-In-The-Box for lunch, > still wearing our floral-calico farm-women Victorians (Ardenwood does the > 1890s). While we were there, a teenager, old enough to drive, asked us if > we were from Renaissance Fair. Can you blame her? Removing the lack of depth to studying History in anything less than Avanced Placemment History; there is the fact that at most Ren Faires you get Xena, Hurcules, Romans, Fairies, Cavemen and my personal favorites Kligons. :) No wonder kids are so screwed up. Kit (who is still adjusting to officailly no longer being a kid.) --part1_128.197acc34.2ae5e45b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/02 11:55:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes:


My younger daughter and I were helping out with Ardenwood's Harvest
Festival today.  We went across the street to Jack-In-The-Box for lunch,
still wearing our floral-calico farm-women Victorians (Ardenwood does the
1890s).  While we were there, a teenager, old enough to drive, asked us if
we were from Renaissance Fair.


Can you blame her?  Removing the lack of depth to studying History in anything less than Avanced Placemment History; there is the fact that at most Ren Faires you get Xena, Hurcules, Romans, Fairies, Cavemen and my personal favorites Kligons.  :)

No wonder kids are so screwed up.

Kit
(who is still adjusting to officailly no longer being a kid.)
 --part1_128.197acc34.2ae5e45b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 19:25:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02067 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:25:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LNR33Y006368; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LNR1PS004949; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axion-it.net (rh3.axion-it.com [209.183.229.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9LNQJPS004592 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:26:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [65.130.107.225] (account suellen@ccaol.com HELO sue) by axion-it.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0b6) with ESMTP id 5058076 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:26:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c27959$6caca820$bc76fea9@stargate.net> From: "Sue" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Lane Bryant Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:27:20 -0400 Status: RO I have 2 catalogs, 1931 and 1935 I am selling for one price. The item no. is 972170902. Does anyone know how I get the proper hyperlink so people can just click on it? Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave. Frederick, MD 21701 http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 20:29:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02375 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:29:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M0V83Y010546; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:31:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M0V0PS027811; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd6mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M0UiPS027684 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:30:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pd6mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd6mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.216]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4C00ML4XBTWB@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:28:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml2so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml2so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.146]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4C00A8KXBT2W@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:28:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from orb.shaw.ca (h24-68-29-21.vc.shawcable.net [24.68.29.21]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4C00JLMXBSAQ@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:28:41 -0600 (MDT) From: kris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset free costuming... In-reply-to: X-Sender: ionization@shawmail To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021021172810.00a131c0@shawmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <004801c27831$d4fbd640$205322d9@dan> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:30:32 -0700 Status: RO >I do think, however, that the whole modern fixation on tightlacing is just >wrong, wrong, wrong -- I'm sure some women did it, but how on earth did, say, >Elizabethans, Victorians, etc. dance so vigorously if they were laced that >tightly? I just don't think the average person laced to that extreme, even >for fancy dress. Well... not necessarily. I do Victorian, and I can get a 26" waist with 46" hips, and dance, and not be terribly out of breath, and not get cramping or anything. The trick for me is to just compress the waist, not the rib cage :] (Does anyone know Ninepin? I've done that one.) kris _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 21:19:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02635 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:19:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1L23Y013419; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1L1PS012558; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1KkPS012485 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:20:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-013scfairp0057.dialsprint.net ([63.183.128.57] helo=faucet.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 183niu-0000YK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:20:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3DB4B5A4.CD281018@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rachel/blackwork questions References: <3DB3F26C.4483.12992230@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:19:15 -0500 Status: RO Cascio Michael wrote: > > > Blackwork question.....Blackwork is geometric > > designs of black on white used for necklines and > > cuffs? And blackwork is also filling stitches on > > free-form naturalistic looking flowers? How do you > > know when to use which one on which garments and where? > > Cassandra Research! As has been stated, early blackwork tends toward geometric bands and later blackwork towards free-form outlines with geometric fills. Portraits are a great place to look for who used what sort where, but there are also some patterns online taken from period embroidery pattern-books and portraits. They are on Drea's site, and were charted by the lovely Bronwen (aka Claudette Ziemann): http://costume.dm.net/blackwork/index.html Other online resources are: the Blackwork Embroidery Archives http://www.blackworkarchives.com/ is THE site. They have an amazing selection of patterns. The Elizabethan Practical Companion: Blackwork Gallery http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/1581/bwgallery/ a site for links to pictures and paintings of clothing with blackwork Blackwork--An Introduction http://www.needlepoint.org/Archives/Blackwork/Article.htm a short history Stitch On Line from the Skinner Sisters http://www.skinnersisters.com/stitch/issue1/ background and some nice pics of extant period pieces Blackwork Designs from 16th century sources http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/embroidery/blackwork-sources/ charts taken from paintings Fill-in Patterns for Blackwork Embroidery http://aeg.atlantia.sca.org/projects/howto/blackwork/ also taken from paintings or existing pieces 16th Century Embroidery Resources http://costume.dm.net/black-bib.html a bibliography for both general embroidery and blackwork Happy Stitching! Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 21:29:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02700 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:29:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1V33Y014030; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1V2PS015368; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1UBPS015155 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:30:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phil1040.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.136.40]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1U5Mh018492 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:30:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3DB4A734.2D89E684@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:17:41 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. Mara is, of course, being modest, as she forgot to mention that she won First Place in the Women's Working Class Dress competition, as well as really looking like she stepped out of a 17th Cent. Dutch Genre painting. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 21:36:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02743 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:36:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1c23Y014462; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1c1PS017297; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1btPS017253 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phil1040.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.136.40]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1bmMh020502 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:37:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3DB4A904.848C7C66@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up References: <001c01c27935$1ecf87e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:25:24 -0400 Status: RO Hi, All. I didn't get to take many pictures, but I hope to post one to Penny of my clothing, as well as some shots of the Polish troops we had there over the weekend. I didn't get any of Mara, but I hope she might have. Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > And what about all of us who could not come? > Dont you think we deserved to se some pictures? > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 21:36:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02747 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:36:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1X13Y014177; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1X0PS015909; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1WvPS015885 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phil1040.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.136.40]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1WqMh021111 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:32:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3DB4A7DC.CE99C0D7@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D1278431E26FD740B95717EB" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:20:28 -0400 Status: RO --------------D1278431E26FD740B95717EB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, that's weird. I didn't read your post, yet Kathy, and I practically repeated you... guess great minds think alike ;) Mike T. Appin1@aol.com wrote: > Mara is too modest. That lovely Dutch outfit deservedly won first > place in working women's clothing at the St. Mary's City Grand Muster. > And she DID look just like she walked out of a genre painting. > > Kathleen Norvell --------------D1278431E26FD740B95717EB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, that's weird. I didn't read your post, yet Kathy, and I practically repeated you... guess great minds think alike  ;)   Mike T.

Appin1@aol.com wrote:

Mara is too modest. That lovely Dutch outfit deservedly won first place in working women's clothing at the St. Mary's City Grand Muster. And she DID look just like she walked out of a genre painting.

Kathleen Norvell

--------------D1278431E26FD740B95717EB-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 21:40:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02793 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:40:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1g23Y014676; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1g1PS018299; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1fQPS018151 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:41:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip165.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.165]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9M1ejnp004357 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021021213759.01f40e00@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up In-Reply-To: <001c01c27935$1ecf87e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:38:19 -0400 Status: RO At 09:07 PM 10/21/2002 +0200, you wrote: >And what about all of us who could not come? >Dont you think we deserved to se some pictures? > >Bjarne Patience, Bjarne, I don't have the film developed yet! -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 21:48:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02836 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:48:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1o23Y015216; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1o1PS020778; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1nePS020682 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip165.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.165]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9M1nWnp005456 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021021214625.01f52af0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:47:08 -0400 Status: RO I believe McLean's Company walked away with a number of awards, too -- that's great, Kathy, congrats! -- Mara At 01:13 PM 10/21/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Mara is too modest. That lovely Dutch outfit deservedly won first place in >working women's clothing at the St. Mary's City Grand Muster. And she DID >look just like she walked out of a genre painting. > >Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 21:55:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02877 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:55:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1u43Y015654; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1u1PS022719; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1tBPS022393 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:55:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (phil1040.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.136.40]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M1t6Mh029360 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:55:07 -0400 Message-ID: <3DB4AD11.77F98112@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Iron Age clothing books needed References: <00d701c14db5$2520a400$86284ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:42:41 -0400 Status: RO Hi. Also in the Olaf Goubitz book just published on shoes called "Stepping through Time", there are a few chapters in the back, one entitled Prehistoric Footwear, and the other Footwear in the Northwestern Provinces of the Roman Empire that give a great variety of examples of footwear of the Iron Age (at least a portion of it). Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 22:05:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02964 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:05:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M2713Y016392; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M270PS026078; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M262PS025823 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:06:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip165.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.165]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g9M25xnp007335 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021021220044.01f79390@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion In-Reply-To: <62.27582f92.2ae5e169@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:03:46 -0400 Status: RO At 07:02 PM 10/21/2002 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/14/02 6:16:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >drea@nospam writes: > > >>forms for making leather corsets > > >Has anyone ever seen proof for leather corsets in historic fashion? > >Kit Yes -- they were worn in the 18th c. They looked almost exactly like regular stays; the 'boning channels' were lines scored into the leather (heavy sole-weight leather) to help the leather bend properly. I've seen stays made without this scoring and they don't work the way they should. Lighter-weight leather wouldn't work, either. I bet they're a lot hotter than regular stays, but since I haven't tried them myself, I can't say for sure. Regards, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 22:05:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02969 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:05:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M27U3Y016409; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M27UPS026198; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M26QPS025917 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:06:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234948pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.182.133]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4D00FO31UKDZ@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:06:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3DB4B2A9.3020402@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 References: <20021022015000.20777.50272.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: historical hem length changes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:06:33 -0400 Status: RO There's one period in the 20th century where this didn't quite happen, I remember hearing a comment about that in a show I was watching a week or two ago... but don't remember which in decade it occured. On the current side.... if that's true, then we're in *big* trouble. There are skirts out there being worn by the fashionable that really can't get much higher w/o showing off the g-strings below. If we have to wait for hemlines to climb.... -Elisabeth >From: Kitsune242@aol.com > >In a message dated 10/14/02 5:57:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > >>How about the one that the stock market goes up as hemlines go up? This >>actually had a basis in one very small statement of fact, which I can't >>dredge up out of the mists of the past, but got to be applied generally. >>Ann Wass >> >> > >Please note: this is what I remember a professor stating, and I am not even >sure if I am remembering right... > >Over simplified, it has to do with the fact that in recent years (the last >hundred or so) when the economy takes a major dip which causes depression >(War, famine/blight, bad worldly economics) the dresses/skirts get less >fussy. As the times get leaner the hems get shorter. (WW1, WW2, the Great >Depression) As the skirts rise, the stockmarket is slowly gaining ground as >we are climbing out of a slump. Really, if this theory is right, it should >read, " As hemlines climb, so follows the stockmarket." > >Kit > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Oct 21 23:05:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03276 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:05:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M3713Y019265; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M370ZU012233; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out016.verizon.net (out016pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M36eZU012119 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.verizon.net ([151.199.138.206]) by out016.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021022030634.BRHL9318.out016.verizon.net@default.verizon.net> for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:06:34 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20021021230058.00aeb670@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion In-Reply-To: <62.27582f92.2ae5e169@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_16549101==_.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:03:32 -0400 Status: RO --=====================_16549101==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:02 PM 10/21/02 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/14/02 6:16:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >drea@nospam writes: > > >>forms for making leather corsets > > >Has anyone ever seen proof for leather corsets in historic fashion? > >Kit Yes, though it might not be what you mean. At work we own a pair of 18th century leather stays, I have also seen these things referred to in documentation within the period. They are however a cheaper alternative to the regular stays rather than fashion they are a practicality. Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* --=====================_16549101==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:02 PM 10/21/02 -0400, you wrote:
In a message dated 10/14/02 6:16:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, drea@nospam writes:


forms for making leather corsets


Has anyone ever seen proof for leather corsets in historic fashion?

Kit


    Yes, though it might not be what you mean.   At work we own a pair of 18th century leather stays, I have also seen these things referred to in documentation within the period.  They are however a cheaper alternative to the regular stays rather than fashion they are a practicality.

Cheers,



Ron Carnegie
r.carnegie@verizon.net
        *************************************************
        "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that
         once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked
         other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking
         their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now
         all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we
         ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow."
                                G.M. Trevelyan
        ************************************************* --=====================_16549101==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 00:54:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03609 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:54:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M4u43Y024448; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M4u1ZU010169; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M4tqZU010106 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.11b.189f9b0b (17228) for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:55:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <11b.189f9b0b.2ae6344d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_11b.189f9b0b.2ae6344d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:55:41 EDT Status: RO --part1_11b.189f9b0b.2ae6344d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bjarne -- I didn't take my camera, but I hope Mara got some photos. Kathleen --part1_11b.189f9b0b.2ae6344d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bjarne -- I didn't take my camera, but I hope Mara got some photos.

Kathleen --part1_11b.189f9b0b.2ae6344d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 01:57:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03788 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:57:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M5x13Y026620; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M5x0ZU025371; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M5wwZU025354 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021022055853.XSDD26432.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:58:53 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c27990$1817a710$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Storing/ironing bustle dresses? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:58:50 -0700 Status: RO Hi all, Does anyone have any advice on storing bustle-era dresses? I'm currently making a dress that will have puffs in the back attached to tapes, and as it's made of taffeta I'm worried that it will wrinkle horribly -- the tapes are sewn in on the original, so I would assume it would be pretty impossible to iron. One thing I've considered is to attach all of the tapes with hooks and eyes, so that I could let out the skirt for ironing -- any other suggestions? Thanks! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 02:05:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06057 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:05:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M6713Y026885; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M671ZU027142; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M66BZU026911 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021022060606.XZGS26432.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:06:06 +0000 Message-ID: <002901c27991$1b0beb60$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Books on 1920's fashions? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:06:04 -0700 Status: RO Hi again! A second post from me... I'm currently working on a research article that examines on the social debates over women's fashions of the 1920's in the U.S. The article focuses mainly on the perceived "meanings" of fashions rather than the fashions themselves, but I'd like to include a footnote that covers the design history of the period. Does anyone have any suggestions for core books that cover this period? I've got Elizabeth Ewing's _History of 20th century fashion_, Carolyn Hall's _The Twenties in Vogue_, and Stella Blum's _Everyday Fashions of the Twenties_. Are there any others I should look at? Thanks! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 02:09:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07562 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:09:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M6B13Y026978; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M6B0ZU027987; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9M6AnZU027942 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:10:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 12113 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2002 06:10:48 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2002 06:10:48 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-118.sonic.net [209.148.112.118]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g9M6AlH08315 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:10:48 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DB4EC16.7AA6351@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storing/ironing bustle dresses? References: <002301c27990$1817a710$befc8218@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:11:34 -0700 Status: RO What I often see in original garments is pairs of tapes that are tied together to achieve the puff (instead of one tape sewn down at both ends).. When the tapes are not tied, the garment is flat and can then be pressed or stored much more easily. Hope this helps, Fran Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone have any advice on storing bustle-era dresses? I'm currently > making a dress that will have puffs in the back attached to tapes, and as > it's made of taffeta I'm worried that it will wrinkle horribly -- the tapes > are sewn in on the original, so I would assume it would be pretty impossible > to iron. One thing I've considered is to attach all of the tapes with hooks > and eyes, so that I could let out the skirt for ironing -- any other > suggestions? > > Thanks! > > - Kendra > --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 03:15:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10718 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:15:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M7H13Y028946; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M7H0ZU013238; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40017.mail.yahoo.com (web40017.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9M7GCZU013020 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021022071606.1950.qmail@web40017.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40017.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:16:06 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Mans & Womens Shirt To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021021180009.6962.86843.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:16:06 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Hi Chiara Unfortunately it too me over two hours to go through the two shirts. Of course we went round the museum afterwards and saw lots of wonderful costumes, but not much in my timeframe unfortunately. Rachel Message: 13 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:47:18 -0000 From: Chiara To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Mans & Womens Shirt Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Congratulations on a great opportunity! I look forward to your notes and update to your site with the project. Did you by any chance get to look at anything else at the Bath museum? Chiara ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 03:47:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17534 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:47:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M7n23Y029805; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M7n0ZU020019; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9M7mOZU019906 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:48:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021022074824.17021.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:48:24 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] [h-cos] urban legands concerning the history of fashion To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021021220044.01f79390@saltmine.radix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:48:24 +0100 (BST) Status: RO --- Kevin + Mara wrote: > > should. Lighter-weight leather wouldn't work, either. I bet they're a lot > hotter than regular stays, but since I haven't tried them myself, I can't > say for sure. They actually aren't, according to the neighbour who bought them. Apparently they are very comfortable. I'll let you know next year because I'll buy some this November market for my lower class scummy (weather) gear. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 05:54:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21027 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:54:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M9u53Y004193; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M9u0ZU013825; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9M9tvZU013806 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:55:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p149-nas1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.210.149] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 183vlT-0002tT-00; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:55:56 +1300 Message-ID: <000701c279b1$34185f60$95d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1836 dress, thanx MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:55:49 +1300 Status: RO > Thanks so much for your input. I just received my copy of "Costume in > Detail", and ordered today on Amazon, a copy of Janet Arnold's book and > "After a Fashion" as well. The Bradfield book is extremely helpful. I am > using info from dresses on pages 163-172 to help me draft the pattern for the > dress I'm working on. It's a wonderful sourse eh:)? I'm so pleased I did get this book.. even if I did have a 6month wiat for my order to come in.. no I don't know why it took that long. > Michaela, I've had fun fiddling with that tight sleeve versus arm mobility, > and brides wanting to do the "Y.M.C.A." at their receptions but still look > nice with their arms down, dilemma as well. (By the way Christine's wedding > gown is lovely) Thaks:) But my concern was the tight armhole isn't in it's normal > position of following the armscye, but it is high under the arm at the side > body, then curves out sharp and low as it drops from the shoulder, so it's > being worn high on the bicep. I'm going to duplicate the armhole as is on my > pattern, then run it by the designer and see if he wants to keep it that way. Yeah, that is the problem, the position of it (rather than simply being tight). Have you thought about faking it? I mean if you have some dresses with a cape collar or a deep lace trim or a pelerine you could use a more normal position and hide it with those items. Or I suppose you could simply shift the line to the edge of the shoulder and use a similar idea above to draw the eye down the sleeve. michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 06:26:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21166 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:26:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MAS13Y005161; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 04:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MAS1ZU020399; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 04:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id g9MARZZU020293 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 04:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20021022102735.43136.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:27:35 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] History of nuns' dress? Help! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:27:35 +0100 (BST) Status: RO Hi All, I tried an internet (google) search as well as searching the h-cost archives, but I didn't really come up with much. I am looking for information plus, if possible, images of nuns' habit before 1600. I know it's very vague, but anything will do, no matter which period. It'd be greatly appreciated! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 06:50:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21248 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:50:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MAq23Y005851; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 04:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MAq1ZU025363; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 04:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MApKZU025256 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 04:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 7115 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2002 10:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.195.214]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Oct 2002 10:51:19 -0000 Message-ID: <003501c279b8$df0cda20$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <20021021115719.24035.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bath Mans & Womens Shirt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:50:43 -0400 Status: RO > case I was given access to their conservation notes etc. This turned out to be a marvel of > information. There was so much information and this time the drawings of the embroidery were > accurate and I can be sure that they got the stitches correct after checking it against the > garment. > > Well I also got time to take notes on the Lady's shift there as well but ran out of time before I > could deal with the two blackwork jackets there as well, even though they are out of my period of > interest. > > Just had to have my little crow. Oh, a stab of envy went through me! How very, very wonderful for you. I am really looking forward to seeing what you had access to, and want to thank you for such future sharing! Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 08:21:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21783 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:21:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCN53Y008666; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCN0ZU015378; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:23:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCMPZU015255 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9MCOaB12768.; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:24:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:22:23 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] St. Mary's City follow-up Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9MCMPZU015255 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:22:19 +0100 Status: RO Mara did say in her original posting that she would make photos available in due course. I'm really looking forward to seeing them! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Appin1@aol.com 10/21/02 06:13pm >>> Mara is too modest. That lovely Dutch outfit deservedly won first place in working women's clothing at the St. Mary's City Grand Muster. And she DID look just like she walked out of a genre painting. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 08:24:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21795 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:24:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCQ13Y008743; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCQ0ZU016008; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCPCZU015847 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0507.dialsprint.net ([63.184.193.253] helo=faucet.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 183y5v-0002sI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:25:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3DB55160.2C4CB570@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Books on 1920's fashions? References: <002901c27991$1b0beb60$befc8218@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:23:43 -0500 Status: RO Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > I'm currently working on a research article that examines on the social > debates over women's fashions of the 1920's in the U.S. The article focuses > mainly on the perceived "meanings" of fashions rather than the fashions > themselves, but I'd like to include a footnote that covers the design > history of the period. Does anyone have any suggestions for core books that > cover this period? Not all of these are strictly US fashion, but: Franklin Simon Fashion Catalog for 1923 (by Franklin Simon & Co., pub. Dover) Drawings and photos of fashions offered by this NYC clothing store Authentic French Fashions of the Twenties (by JoAnne Olian, pub. Dover) Fashion plates from L'Art et La Mode Art in Dress (1922) (by P. Clement Brown, pub. R.L. Shep) This is actually a how-to book from the period with scaled-down patterns drafted out between fashion plates and instructions. Paris Fashions: The Art Deco Style of the 1920s (by Madeleine Ginsburg, pub. Bracken Books) Fashion plates from Art, Gout, Beaute' Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 08:36:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21891 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:36:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCc23Y009160; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCc1ZU018804; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCbYZU018723 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A68DBCE0007C; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:37:33 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7873F00DE; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:41:43 -0500 Message-ID: <004a01c279c7$c1cebf00$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" References: <002f01c27991$31069910$befc8218@hopperflop2> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: [sewretro] Books on 1920's fashions? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:37:17 -0400 Status: RO Kendra, I am working on this time period. Some original sources that I am using are some etiquette books, dress catalogs, hair styling books, and magazines. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 08:50:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21976 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:50:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCq23Y009722; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCq1ZU022261; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MCprZU022231 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g9MCs3B15778.; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:54:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:51:51 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] History of nuns' dress? Help! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id g9MCprZU022231 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:51:18 +0100 Status: RO I don't know much about nuns, but I do remember 30 or 40 years ago sometimes seeing them out and about wearing a long veil with a mediaeval -style wimple. Presumably this is an example of the fossilised historic costumes we were discussing recently, and was probably virtually unchanged since before 1600? - though nowadays a shorter veil is worn without the wimple. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 10/22/02 11:27am >>> Hi All, I tried an internet (google) search as well as searching the h-cost archives, but I didn't really come up with much. I am looking for information plus, if possible, images of nuns' habit before 1600. I know it's very vague, but anything will do, no matter which period. It'd be greatly appreciated! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs Civilian & Military Living History Society 1660-1715 URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: marquis@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Oct 22 09:27:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22126 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:27:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MDSD3Y011327; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MDS1ZU001851; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9MDR3ZU001535 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.14.915829 (4214) for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:26:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <14.915829.2ae6ac1b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] History of nuns' dress? Help! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:26:51 EDT Status: RO 
The Braun and Schneider book has several pages of ecclesiastical garb from 
various eras.  Cheryl Odom
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 09:34:21 2002
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Hi Nicole, Ruth Goodman of the Tudor Group was talking about making a 16th c 
Nun's habit, she may have finished it now.
Wolfin Textiles do the most lovely Nun's veiling in wool, lovely, lovely 
fabric.
regards
Joy

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 09:37:27 2002
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:44:51 -0600
Status: RO

Hi, Nicole.  You might have bette results if you narrowed your search,
and just looked for the habits of a particular *order.*  Searching for
"Benedictine" or "Dominican" or "Poor Clares" would probably get you
their websites.....
--sue, watching the full moon through her bedroom window....

N Kipar wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I tried an internet (google) search as well as searching the h-cost archives,
> but I didn't really come up with much. I am looking for information plus, if
> possible, images of nuns' habit before 1600. I know it's very vague, but
> anything will do, no matter which period.
> It'd be greatly appreciated!
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 10:17:54 2002
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:16:32 -0400 (EDT)
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I did, but the second roll (with the parade on Sunday) is still in the
camera, unfinished.  The first roll went to the photo shop this morning,
so I'll try to post a few this evening.  It will mostly be of the German
and Swede camps, I'm afraid!  When I get back from vacation next week I'll
get the second roll developed.

Cheers,
Mara


On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 Appin1@aol.com wrote:

> Bjarne -- I didn't take my camera, but I hope Mara got some photos.
>
> Kathleen
>

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On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote:
> They actually aren't, according to the neighbour who bought them. Apparently
> they are very comfortable. I'll let you know next year because I'll buy some
> this November market for my lower class scummy (weather) gear.
>
> Nicole

Cool, please do!  One of these days I'm gonna have to try making a pair...

-- Mara

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 10:59:35 2002
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From: Drea Leed 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] History of nuns' dress? Help!
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:59:26 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO


Nicole,

Susan Carroll-Clark (nicolaa@columbus.rr.com) has done extensive research
in nun's dress and habits--she can probably direct you to the best sources
for them.

Good luck,

Drea

 >
> N Kipar wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I tried an internet (google) search as well as searching the h-cost archives,
> > but I didn't really come up with much. I am looking for information plus, if
> > possible, images of nuns' habit before 1600. I know it's very vague, but
> > anything will do, no matter which period.
> > It'd be greatly appreciated!
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 14:08:09 2002
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From: "Janet  Davis" 
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:50:54 -0400
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There are a few pictures of medieval nuns at this site:
http://mw.mcmaster.ca/scriptorium/index.html .  Search under "cleric"

Janet

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>I tried an internet (google) search as well as searching the h-cost archives,
>but I didn't really come up with much. I am looking for information plus, if
>possible, images of nuns' habit before 1600. I know it's very vague, but
>anything will do, no matter which period.
>It'd be greatly appreciated!
>

  From what I understand from talking to Various People, including 
costumers and nuns themselves, when most religious orders were founded 
they either had their members dress like poor people (such as the 
followers of St Francis) or they really dressed it up.  I've seen one 
portraite of a French Mother Abbess from about 1660 (a little out of 
what you are looking for, but a good example) and she looked like a 
member of the French Royal Court.  You couldn't tell she was a nun at 
all!  Don't know if this will help, but it might get you thinking in the 
right direction.


-- 

Mama Rose
--->---{@

"Ho! Ah-ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!"  *bonk*

  Daffy "Robin Hood" Duck




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Subject: Re: [h-cost] History of nuns' dress? Help!
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I'm trying to remember whether it was this list or another that we just had a
discussion on nuns' dress before 1600 within the last month or two. 

I also have quite a bit of information on this subject, including some images,
but it's all at home and I'm at work. I'll take a look this evening. Are you
looking for something in particular?

It does, BTW, seem to be an urban legend (to tie in another thread!) that
nuns' costumes are simply "fossilized" medieval garb. While some of them did,
of course, have their origins then, there HAVE been changes -- though in some
groups much more than others. I should also add a cautionary note that members
of a religious order are not necessarily the best source for the history of
that order's clothing. If there is someone in the order with an interest in
historic clothing, then of course they are in the best possible position to
gather data, but often there isn't such a person -- since prayer, not history,
is their main occupation.

There was an "explosion" of founding new religious orders, especially for
women, in the 19th century, which is one reason why there are so many
different groups today. Some of them did base their clothing on that of the
poor; others based theirs on the garb of _widows_, either of their own era or
of a generation or two before. This is especially where some of the more
extravagant and peculiar forms of pre-Vatican-II headgear come from. I think
you'll find that the older orders mostly have habits that are quite simple.

(And yes, I have some hilarious pictures of post-16th-century nuns' costumes
complete with skirt ruffles, corsets, and even a "fontange" cap..... usually
these were from convents set up specifically for the aristocracy.)

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Drea Leed  wrote:

> 
> Nicole,
> 
> Susan Carroll-Clark (nicolaa@columbus.rr.com)
> has done extensive research
> in nun's dress and habits--she can probably
> direct you to the best sources
> for them.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Drea
> 
>  >
> > N Kipar wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I tried an internet (google) search as well
> as searching the h-cost archives,
> > > but I didn't really come up with much. I am
> looking for information plus, if
> > > possible, images of nuns' habit before
> 1600. I know it's very vague, but
> > > anything will do, no matter which period.
> > > It'd be greatly appreciated!
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 



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|  
+  Davis, California
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nun's Habit
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http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/feature/week12.html
    That's us as 15th c. Swedish Brdgettines

And here are more sources you can ILL.
Jessamyn


Costumi degli ordini monastici.
Ruth E Adomeit
1840s 
Italian  Book 1 sheet ([21] leaves) : chiefly col. ill. ; 11 x 159 cm.
folded to 11 x 8 cm.
Roma : Presso Battistelli,

Ordres religieux : 
femmes. 
1800-1899? 
French  Book 1 v. (25 chromolithographs (attached, folding out)) : ill. ; 17
cm. 
Paris : L. Turgis, jeune

Courte description des ordres des femmes & filles religieuses
contenant une petite relation de leur origine, de leur progrès & de leur
confirmation : avec les figures de leurs habits /
Adriaan Schoonebeek
1700 
French  Book :  Microform 194 [i.e. 184] p., 5 leaves : ill., ports.
Amsterdam : H. Desbordes, P. Scepérus, et P. Brunel






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Sorry, slightly OT, but I just had to comment as it made me laugh – this 
really IS the joy of the internet, you can find stuff on just about 
anything, including medieval nuns..... what did we do without it?

Kate

>
>There are a few pictures of medieval nuns at this site:
>http://mw.mcmaster.ca/scriptorium/index.html .  Search under "cleric"
>
>Janet
>



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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--B_3118147340_1893036
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
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http://gothicgarments.atlhost.net/menu3/

Here=B9s an interesting site...
Jessamyn/Grace 

--B_3118147340_1893036
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Nuns


http://gothicgarments.atlhost.net/menu3/



Here’s an interesting site...

Jessamyn/Grace




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Subject: [h-cost] inch-square printed canvas?
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A year or so ago, someone on the list mentioned that they knew where one
could find canvas printed with an inch-grid for sale.  Anyone remember
this, or have any idea where I could find such a thing?

Thanks,

Drea

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From: Mara Riley 
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Folks, I just changed my subscription to H-Costume to this address,
temporarily.

The pics from St. Mary's City are at:
http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Temp/StMarys2002/

By the way, Mike Tartaglio made the black triangle-chair (is there an
official name for those?) in the 'JeffD.jpg' picture.  Nice work! 
The costume Jeff is wearing is one of my works-in-progress; I just
finished the collar and the gauntlet trim, and now need to make him
some proper cuffs.  

I can't remember the name of the guy doing the Polish impression --
Mark something.  Neat costume, though!  And a really fun guy.

The cap in 'wiredcap.jpg' is my best guess at how those things were
made.  It does stay on my head, with the help of a pin at the crown.

-- Mara


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I have to say that I tried every method given here for keeping my skirt up 
and not a single one of them worked, although some were better than 
others.  I am going to cut the waist band off of them, shorten them and 
attach them to a bodice and wear it under my other bodice.  I am officially 
giving up on the idea of wearing skirts.

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny
From: Marsha Hamilton 
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:02:33 -0400
Status: RO

I was once in full Tudor and was asked if I was portraying Dolly Madison.
Another time the same outfit raised the question of whether I was Queen
Victoria.  

History--its just one big heap of old stuff.

Marsha H.  (Back after a few years absence--good to hear everyone again.)

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 20:31:27 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] 1940's Hangar Dance
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:34:13 -0700
Status: RO

Sorry for the cross-post but this sounds like fun!  

For those in the Portland OR/ Vancouver WA area ....

-Brenna
www.robewarriors.com - Greater Portland Area Costumers' Guild
www.bsharpfabrics.com - supplying the living history re-enactor
____________________________________

The 13th Annual USO Hangar Dance

Saturday 9 Nov 2002

Pearson Air Museum
    (in the hangar - they're taking out all but one of the planes)
1115 E. 5th Street
Vancouver WA 98661
  (next to Ft. Vancouver - map on website under "About Us")

360-694-7026
www.PearsonAirMuseum.org

live music by:
Art Abrams Swing Machine Big Band

Dance Lessons start at 7pm (recorded music)
Dance runs from 8pm 'til Midnight (live music)

Cost:  $20  -  Non-Pearson Museum members
          $15  -  Pearson Museum members

Costumes:  1940's military or civilian or modern casual
   Costume Contest theme - South Pacific (the musical)

Munchies:  USO style (hot dogs, bratwursts, kraut, veggie trays, cookies,
etc. (included)




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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 21:19:33 2002
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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:19:53 -0700
Status: RO


>>My younger daughter and I were helping out with Ardenwood's Harvest
>>Festival today.  We went across the street to Jack-In-The-Box for lunch,
>>still wearing our floral-calico farm-women Victorians (Ardenwood does the
>>1890s).  While we were there, a teenager, old enough to drive, asked us if
>>we were from Renaissance Fair.
>
>
>Can you blame her?  Removing the lack of depth to studying History in 
>anything less than Avanced Placemment History; there is the fact that at 
>most Ren Faires you get Xena, Hurcules, Romans, Fairies, Cavemen and my 
>personal favorites Kligons.  :)
>
>No wonder kids are so screwed up.
>
>Kit
>(who is still adjusting to officailly no longer being a kid.)

My 14-year-old was the daughter in question, and she knew.  She knows more 
about history than she learned in school - she must because she doesn't get 
great grades in History in school.  But then, She has a costumer for a 
mother, and we have worked Ren. Faires, Dickens' Fair, and Science Fiction 
conventions.  (The costumes may be different, but the pay's the same...)


Kayta

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 21:19:39 2002
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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it all up
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:16:10 -0700
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>I have to say that I tried every method given here for keeping my skirt up 
>and not a single one of them worked, although some were better than 
>others.  I am going to cut the waist band off of them, shorten them and 
>attach them to a bodice and wear it under my other bodice.  I am 
>officially giving up on the idea of wearing skirts.

I must have missed something.  What do you mean by 'up'?  Up out of the way 
so you won't step on it?  Up so your underskirt shows, as they did in the 
1860s?  Up so it doesn't fall down around your hips?


Kayta

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 21:19:57 2002
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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940's Hangar Dance
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:18:15 -0700
Status: RO

Sorry - I had visions of little coat hangers doing high kicks in a 
line.  I'm making too many dolls these days, and not watching my spelling.

>The 13th Annual USO Hangar Dance
>
>Saturday 9 Nov 2002
>
>Pearson Air Museum
>     (in the hangar - they're taking out all but one of the planes)
>1115 E. 5th Street
>Vancouver WA 98661
>   (next to Ft. Vancouver - map on website under "About Us")


Kayta

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/----\   /---\))

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 21:44:21 2002
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From: MaryAnn Jones 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] keeping it all up
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:35:52 -0700
Status: RO

up so it doesn't fall down around my hips, up so it doesn't drag on the 
ground.I wrote an earlier post complaining about the problems with 
maintaining a skirt on a beaach ball figure.  I got lots of good 
suggestions and tried every one of them.  I think that between my figure 
deficiencies, the weight of the skirts and the forces of gravity, I never 
found a solution that worked.  I think a whole second bodice is the only 
way I can go.

At 06:16 PM 10/22/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>>I have to say that I tried every method given here for keeping my skirt 
>>up and not a single one of them worked, although some were better than 
>>others.  I am going to cut the waist band off of them, shorten them and 
>>attach them to a bodice and wear it under my other bodice.  I am 
>>officially giving up on the idea of wearing skirts.
>
>I must have missed something.  What do you mean by 'up'?  Up out of the 
>way so you won't step on it?  Up so your underskirt shows, as they did in 
>the 1860s?  Up so it doesn't fall down around your hips?
>
>
>Kayta
>
>    //// \\\
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>  ((((   7 )))
>   (((  <> ))))
>      )   ((((((
>/----\   /---\))
>
>_______________________________________________
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>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Oct 22 22:34:21 2002
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From: Melanie Schuessler 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] History of nuns' dress? Help!
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:34:21 -0500
Status: RO

Peitro Lorenzetti from Siena, circa 1316:  "The Blessed Umilta' Reading
to her Companions in the Refectory" in the Uffizi shows nuns at table.
Four are wearing dun-colored loose robes (looks like they're unbelted)
with what looks like some sort of matching shoulder-cape structure that
disappears past the edge of the table they're sitting at (so it's longer
than elbow-length), plus a white wimple and a black veil with a white
border laying over the head (unstructured) and hanging to bicep-level. 
Two are wearing what looks like a darker brown robe and similar if not
the same headgear, but it's hard to tell.

On the wall of the Choir Chapel at Sant' Agostino in Tuscany, a
15th-century fresco of the Death of Saint Monica.  Don't know if the
ladies around are also saints (and thus untrustworthy), but they're in
all unbelted black with white wimple and white veil overlaid with a long
black veil (unstructured) that I can't find the end of, so it could be
any length from hip to floor (they're all standing behind the bed). 
These give the distinct impression of being two layers of veil, with the
bottom one white, whereas the previous example were definitely black
veils with a white border.

It seems to me like there's another painting of nuns standing around a
dying abbess' or saint's bed praying, but I can't find it at the moment.

Melanie Schuessler
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Hi. Unfortunately, I didn't make that chair, David Hoffmann did. I wish I
had his skill in woodworking...oh, well.  Mike T.


> By the way, Mike Tartaglio made the black triangle-chair (is there an
> official name for those?) in the 'JeffD.jpg' picture.  Nice work!

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Probably the best resource that I know of on medieval religious
women's garb is Desiree Koslin's PhD dissertation, _The Dress of
Monastic & Religious Women as seen in Art from the Early Middle Ages
to the Reformation_. I haven't read all of it yet, but have been
delighted with the bits I have dipped into. I was able to get a copy
of this through UMI Dissertation Services (it's UMI #9917057), who 
have this and many
other theses and dissertations on microfilm, and will print and send
a paper copy for (I think it was) something like $35. They are at :
http://www.bellhowell.infolearning.com

Other than that, it is indeed a bit difficult to find specific 
information. I'd like to teach a "Field Guide to Monks, Friars and 
Nuns" class sometime, so I'm always on the lookout for sources. 
Somewhere I have a list, too, of the most frequently committed errors 
I've seen in beginners' attempts to produce monastic garb for 
costuming purposes. (IIRC, it starts out with: "too short, too 
skimpy, too lightweight, too ragged, and the ever-lovin' use of rope 
for a belt" -- AFAIK the rope belt is pretty much confined to the 
Franciscans.)

Nicole, if you're looking for something specific, let me know what, 
and I'll see what I can find.
-- 
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O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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>up so it doesn't fall down around my hips, up so it doesn't drag on the 
>ground.I wrote an earlier post complaining about the problems with 
>maintaining a skirt on a beach ball figure.  I got lots of good 
>suggestions and tried every one of them.  I think that between my figure 
>deficiencies, the weight of the skirts and the forces of gravity, I never 
>found a solution that worked.  I think a whole second bodice is the only 
>way I can go.

I can't find the thread to read it, so I may be suggesting things that have 
already been found to be of no use.

Have you tried clip-on suspenders?  Many folks I know, who play courtiers 
at Ren. Faire, use clip-on suspenders to hold up various heavy 
under-layers.  These are thin enough to hide under a lined jerkin or 
bodice, and not so thick that they add to the heat of an otherwise hot 
costume. They're really cheap at thrift stores around here.  The button-on 
type would be better, the points of suspension being more numerous and 
spread out.

Failing that, you could go with straps attached to the waistband, the same 
way as overalls straps (separated in front, crossing in back).  Again, they 
wouldn't be as hot as an entire second bodice.


Kayta

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's
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http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Temp/StMarys2002/wiredcap.jpg

Cool cap! I am working on one like those, because they are being worn well into
the 17th c., but as usual got stuck somewhere along the way with too many
things to do. Do you think it would be possible to ontact the lady in the
picture and ask her how she made it?

Nicole

 --- Mara Riley  wrote: > Folks, I just changed my
subscription to H-Costume to this address,
> temporarily.
> 
> The pics from St. Mary's City are at:
> http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Temp/StMarys2002/
> 
> By the way, Mike Tartaglio made the black triangle-chair (is there an
> official name for those?) in the 'JeffD.jpg' picture.  Nice work! 
> The costume Jeff is wearing is one of my works-in-progress; I just
> finished the collar and the gauntlet trim, and now need to make him
> some proper cuffs.  
> 
> I can't remember the name of the guy doing the Polish impression --
> Mark something.  Neat costume, though!  And a really fun guy.
> 
> The cap in 'wiredcap.jpg' is my best guess at how those things were
> made.  It does stay on my head, with the help of a pin at the crown.
> 
> -- Mara
> 
> 
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=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> claning@igc.org 10/22/02 08:01pm >>> wrote:

>It does, BTW, seem to be an urban legend (to tie in another thread!) that
>nuns' costumes are simply "fossilized" medieval garb. While some of them >did, of course, have their origins then, there HAVE been changes -

What I actually suggested was that the habits I remembered seeing in my childhood were fossilised mediaeval garb - I know they have modernised since then.

>(And yes, I have some hilarious pictures of post-16th-century nuns' >costumes complete with skirt ruffles, corsets, and even a "fontange" >cap..... usually these were from convents set up specifically for the >aristocracy.)

I remember in about 1965 seeing two (French?) nuns on a train wearing towering starched linen headdresses (like those worn with some French "national costumes".



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 Kate M Bunting  wrote: 
I remember in about 1965 seeing two (French?) nuns on a train wearing towering starched linen headdresses (like those worn with some French "national costumes".




It sounds like the 'Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent De Paul' did they look like this:

http://www.blessings-catalog.com/LargeImages/BN029_BN002.jpg

Nicole


Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org



---------------------------------
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 Kate M Bunting <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk> wrote: 



I remember in about 1965 seeing two (French?) nuns on a train wearing towering starched linen headdresses (like those worn with some French "national costumes".




It sounds like the 'Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent De Paul' did they look like this:


http://www.blessings-catalog.com/LargeImages/BN029_BN002.jpg


Nicole


Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

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Great pictures, Mara. I like the wired coif too.
Partlets are something you hardly ever see in our 17c reenactment society, for some reason. I suppose they were old-fashioned by the 1640s - though blackwork, which in my opinion is too early for our period, is  very popular.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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I don't remember the white neckwear, but, yes, that's the sort of headdress I meant.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 10/23/02 09:33am >>>

 
 Kate M Bunting  wrote: 
I remember in about 1965 seeing two (French?) nuns on a train wearing towering starched linen headdresses (like those worn with some French "national costumes".




It sounds like the 'Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent De Paul' did they look like this:

http://www.blessings-catalog.com/LargeImages/BN029_BN002.jpg 

Nicole


Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/ 
Email: marquis@kipar.org 



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 Kate M Bunting  wrote:
Great pictures, Mara. I like the wired coif too.
Partlets are something you hardly ever see in our 17c reenactment society, for some reason. I suppose they were old-fashioned by the 1640s - though blackwork, which in my opinion is too early for our period, is very popular.

Actually, they are by far not as oldfashioned as you may think. I did a study of all my 1660s and 1670s genre paintings (dozens and dozens) and I saw a lot more partlets than I would have ever thought, particularly Dutch paintings,  no matter if rural setting (admittdly mainly there) or quite well off housewives and of course market tenders. Partlets were still worn quite a lot even as late as the 1660s, and I do have to say from my studies I have found that what you see in Dutch paintings is not that far off from what was worn in England. Thankfully Holland and England are very similar in clothing.

I fully agree about the blackwork Kate, I have found absolutely nothing which is decorated with blackwork in any of my images except for the one 1660s painting of the lacemaker, where she wears a blackworked coif. Admittedly I don't focus on the first half of the 17th c but still, I noticed  a remarkable _lack_ of blackwork.

Nicole


Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org



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 Kate M Bunting <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk> wrote:



Great pictures, Mara. I like the wired coif too.
Partlets are something you hardly ever see in our 17c reenactment society, for some reason. I suppose they were old-fashioned by the 1640s - though blackwork, which in my opinion is too early for our period, is very popular.

Actually, they are by far not as oldfashioned as you may think. I did a study of all my 1660s and 1670s genre paintings (dozens and dozens) and I saw a lot more partlets than I would have ever thought, particularly Dutch paintings,  no matter if rural setting (admittdly mainly there) or quite well off housewives and of course market tenders. Partlets were still worn quite a lot even as late as the 1660s, and I do have to say from my studies I have found that what you see in Dutch paintings is not that far off from what was worn in England. Thankfully Holland and England are very similar in clothing.


I fully agree about the blackwork Kate, I have found absolutely nothing which is decorated with blackwork in any of my images except for the one 1660s painting of the lacemaker, where she wears a blackworked coif. Admittedly I don't focus on the first half of the 17th c but still, I noticed  a remarkable _lack_ of blackwork.


Nicole


Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Hey! Nice pictures! I always enjoy seeing how other folks play! 
I've never seen those triangle-shaped chairs before, though....not sure
if they're cool or weird. (it's early okay? and my brain's not
functioning completely?)
The red-headed lady (is that you, Mara?) is wearing a really nifty
outfit--looks very appropriate and practical for camping.  Reminds me of
the 16th c. flemish outfits we're starting to see in my neck of the
reenactment woods.
And the Polish gentleman!  I think Teddy'd have like the flamboyant
touches!
--sue, putting off going to work this morning because she hates walking
to the bus stop in the dark 

Mara Riley wrote:
> 
> Folks, I just changed my subscription to H-Costume to this address,
> temporarily.
> 
> The pics from St. Mary's City are at:
> http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Temp/StMarys2002/
> 
> By the way, Mike Tartaglio made the black triangle-chair (is there an
> official name for those?) in the 'JeffD.jpg' picture.  Nice work!
> The costume Jeff is wearing is one of my works-in-progress; I just
> finished the collar and the gauntlet trim, and now need to make him
> some proper cuffs.
> 
> I can't remember the name of the guy doing the Polish impression --
> Mark something.  Neat costume, though!  And a really fun guy.
> 
> The cap in 'wiredcap.jpg' is my best guess at how those things were
> made.  It does stay on my head, with the help of a pin at the crown.
> 
> -- Mara
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Maybe what you guys are getting with the blackwork is a sort of reverse
of what we sometimes get in the SCA? Folks trying to push/expand (and
then justify expansion of) the time-boundary? From "my" side of the
1600-cutoff fence, I'd love to be able to wear some of that yummy lace
you see in later portraits, or one of those fitted, embroidered jackets
that always seem to be dated *just* past 1600.  And some folk I know do,
much like we've got this small, but growing, subsection of folks who
like to do rapier.
You-all've just maybe got it in reverse? Folks who love the embroidery
from *before* 1600?
Or is it people who maybe do multiple kinds of reenacting, and are
making their blackworked items "go" for more than one application?
--sue, blackwork fiend who is completely rambling so she'll go away
now....;-)
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To: 
Subject: RE: Partlets in 17th c., was Re: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's
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repeat after me-"Oh, this? My grandmother left it to me. 
No use letting it go to waste in some storage cupboard!"
YIS Betsy

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Sue Clemenger
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:10 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: Partlets in 17th c., was Re: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's


Maybe what you guys are getting with the blackwork is a sort of reverse
of what we sometimes get in the SCA? Folks trying to push/expand (and
then justify expansion of) the time-boundary? From "my" side of the
1600-cutoff fence, I'd love to be able to wear some of that yummy lace
you see in later portraits, or one of those fitted, embroidered jackets
that always seem to be dated *just* past 1600.  And some folk I know do,
much like we've got this small, but growing, subsection of folks who
like to do rapier.
You-all've just maybe got it in reverse? Folks who love the embroidery
from *before* 1600?
Or is it people who maybe do multiple kinds of reenacting, and are
making their blackworked items "go" for more than one application?
--sue, blackwork fiend who is completely rambling so she'll go away
now....;-)
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:22:59 +0100
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Sue, I think your first suggestion is the correct one, since ECW reenactment is much bigger in the UK than Elizabethan. Some lady members can't resist decorating all their families' linen with bits of black embroidery, even though that look went out of fashion in the very early 17th century.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> mooncat@in-tch.com 10/23/02 02:09pm >>>
Maybe what you guys are getting with the blackwork is a sort of reverse
of what we sometimes get in the SCA? Folks trying to push/expand (and
then justify expansion of) the time-boundary? From "my" side of the
1600-cutoff fence, I'd love to be able to wear some of that yummy lace
you see in later portraits, or one of those fitted, embroidered jackets
that always seem to be dated *just* past 1600.  And some folk I know do,
much like we've got this small, but growing, subsection of folks who
like to do rapier.
You-all've just maybe got it in reverse? Folks who love the embroidery
from *before* 1600?
Or is it people who maybe do multiple kinds of reenacting, and are
making their blackworked items "go" for more than one application?
--sue, blackwork fiend who is completely rambling so she'll go away
now....;-)
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Subject: [h-cost] famous 16th c. bumroll picture
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:46:25 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

Dear List,

Here's another question for y'all...I'm putting together an article on
bumrolls, and am looking for the actual, honest-to-god real location and
source for that c. 1600 Flemish print that shows several women trying on
bumrolls.  It's in Corsets & Crinolines by Norah Waugh, Queen Elizabeth's
Wardrobe Unlock'd by Janet Arnold, and others.  Unfortunately, the source
is always cited as "from a Private Collection".  Nowhere in the
bibliography or citations or "thanks-for-letting-us-use-this-picture"
sections is anything further mentioned.

I do have a Dutch book from the 1930s that has a redrawing of it and
mentions the last name of the owner, but i have a feeling that the owner's
no longer around.  :)

Any clues?  Has anyone else ever tried to hunt this particular picture
down?

Thanks,

Drea

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 11:42:01 2002
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From: Chiara 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] famous 16th c. bumroll picture
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:42:46 -0000
Status: RO

I communicate with a few of the auction houses around the US and abroad. If you can provide me with that name that you have I can at least rule out that their estate passed through their hands in the last 50 years or so. Will that help?

If you have already done this then try a search of 16c Flemish art in the various catalogs you may have to see if you can narrown down a different publication that may have a better citation of where the image is now. :)

Chiara

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:46:25 -0400 (EDT), Drea Leed wrote:
>Dear List,
>
>Here's another question for y'all...I'm putting together an article on
>bumrolls, and am looking for the actual, honest-to-god real location and
>source for that c. 1600 Flemish print that shows several women trying on
>bumrolls.  It's in Corsets & Crinolines by Norah Waugh, Queen Elizabeth's
>Wardrobe Unlock'd by Janet Arnold, and others.  Unfortunately, the source
>is always cited as "from a Private Collection".  Nowhere in the
>bibliography or citations or "thanks-for-letting-us-use-this-picture"
>sections is anything further mentioned.
>
>I do have a Dutch book from the 1930s that has a redrawing of it and
>mentions the last name of the owner, but i have a feeling that the owner's
>no longer around.  :)
>
>Any clues?  Has anyone else ever tried to hunt this particular picture
>down?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Drea
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

-- 
Chiara

-- 
XS2Mail: Check your mail anywhere                     http://www.xs2mail.com/
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 12:08:35 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Mara's Kit
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:07:44 +0000
Status: RO



Lovely costume Mara, and the coif is fantastic!

I'd agree with Kate and Nicole about the partletts and blackwork.
While searching for references to partlets I came across 'tuckers' going 
from 1600 right up to 1700ish. This might explain how the partlet was 
worn,tucked in instead of worn out. I'm sure I've seen in a Dutch painting 
somewhere a young woman wearing the partlet tied over what appear to be 
bodies, and she's about to put a 'jacket' on.
I came across a probate reference to partellette/tuker, in the Hampshire 
record office.
The other thing we don't see very much of are forehead cloths/cross cloths, 
there are literally hundreds of references to them mid 16th century right up 
to 18th,(Refs from Court sessions, they were a popular item to steal!), but 
I think they may be indoor/housework/pregnancy/sickbed/childs wear.

What is a real problem is the shortage of pictures other than Hollar and 
woodcuts showing working class English costume during the 17th century, oh 
for an English le Nain!.

regards
Joy

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 13:21:14 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] famous 16th c. bumroll picture
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:26:05 -0500 (CDT)
Status: RO


On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Drea Leed wrote:

> Here's another question for y'all...I'm putting together an article on
> bumrolls, and am looking for the actual, honest-to-god real location and
> source for that c. 1600 Flemish print that shows several women trying on
> bumrolls.  It's in Corsets & Crinolines by Norah Waugh, Queen Elizabeth's
> Wardrobe Unlock'd by Janet Arnold, and others.

It's also in Linthicum, "Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare," plate VI.
Maybe a better credit line there? I don't have a copy of the book handy,
just a footnote reference from my own papers.

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 13:39:10 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork cap
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:33:46 -0500
Status: RO

I fully agree about the blackwork Kate, I have found absolutely nothing
which is decorated with blackwork in any of my images except for the one
1660s painting of the lacemaker, where she wears a blackworked coif.
Admittedly I don't focus on the first half of the 17th c but still, I
noticed  a remarkable _lack_ of blackwork.

Nicole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I wondered about this myself.  The lacemakers cap really stands out
when you look at other paintings contemporary to it.  Anyone seen a
theory on this?  Was the painter perhaps trying to emphasize the
domestic arts?  I don't know enough about the painting conventions of
this period to hazard more than a guess.

Wasn't the period just before the ECW when samplers were taught in the
girls schools and they went on to do the padded (now called stumpwork)
work frames and boxes?  I think Kathleen Epstein did a book on this. 
This would probably be a better type of needlework to steer folks
toward, altho when you are hooked on counting blackwork it is a poor
substitute :).

Ok, anyone got directions/pattern for the wired cap, it is so RIGHT :).
 Thanks for the pics!

Catherine
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 14:34:44 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Off With Their Corsets !
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:33:30 +0100
Status: RO

Here is a link to a news item which might amuse you:-

http://abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s708442.htm

I wonder what the corsets looked like before they went ?

Linda Walton.
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 15:16:39 2002
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:14:46 +0200
Status: RO

Dear Nadine.
I am very shamefull because i did not send you any thanks at all for finding
this picture for me.
It was very generously done.
Thanks a lot!

Bjarne who blushes all over...........

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nadine Pelikan" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maria Theresia Dress


> Bjarne,
> Here is a URL for Meyten's, the lace dress portrait is the fourth down.
> Nadine
>
> http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/m/meytens/
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 15:22:53 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <20021022231356.81912.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:12:33 +0200
Status: RO

Hi Mara,
Thanks for your generosity in showing us those pictures from St. Mary.
Is it to be the reenacting of a soldiers camp?
It looks lovely, where are you having this even`t? Isnt it very cold in the
nights in the tents? It must be great to feel how they lived their lifes in
those days, very primitive and also a little romantic perhaps, at least when
it just is a coupple of days, and you know you can go home later to have a
bath and watch the tv ;-)
Thanks for sharing

Bjarne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mara Riley" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:13 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's


> Folks, I just changed my subscription to H-Costume to this address,
> temporarily.
>
> The pics from St. Mary's City are at:
> http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Temp/StMarys2002/
>
> By the way, Mike Tartaglio made the black triangle-chair (is there an
> official name for those?) in the 'JeffD.jpg' picture.  Nice work!
> The costume Jeff is wearing is one of my works-in-progress; I just
> finished the collar and the gauntlet trim, and now need to make him
> some proper cuffs.
>
> I can't remember the name of the guy doing the Polish impression --
> Mark something.  Neat costume, though!  And a really fun guy.
>
> The cap in 'wiredcap.jpg' is my best guess at how those things were
> made.  It does stay on my head, with the help of a pin at the crown.
>
> -- Mara
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 16:26:06 2002
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From: "Rowena" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Dutch painting Exhibition (was Pics from St. Mary's)
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:19:43 -0400
Status: RO

Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's


> Hey! Nice pictures! I always enjoy seeing how other folks play! 
> I've never seen those triangle-shaped chairs before, though....not sure
> if they're cool or weird. (it's early okay? and my brain's not
> functioning completely?)


Currently on Exhibition in Albany, NY, are a lot of paintings, etc., of
Dutch life.    I am a bit over an hour west of there, but would be happy to
host anyone who would like to see this exhibition but might need to spend a
night.   This is off the web page, without the pictures:
http://www.albanyinstitute.org/exhibits/current.htm
Rowena
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

This fall AIHA has a feast of Dutch treats for you as part of the 2002
Albany Heritage Year, celebrating Albany's Dutch heritage and the 350th
anniversary of the founding of the Dutch village of Beverwijck (later to
become Albany).
The centerpiece exhibition:    Matters of Taste  (09/21/02-12/08/02)

Related exhibitions:
Albany Underfoot: Archeology in Albany (09/21/02-03/02/03)
Dutch Tiles (09/21/02-03/02/03)
Traders and Culture (ongoing)

--------------------------------------------------
MATTERS OF TASTE:   Food and Drink in Seventeenth-Century Dutch Art and Life
 September 21-December 8, 2002
    This unique exhibition presents 55 extraordinary Dutch and Flemish
paintings together for the first time ever and exclusively on view at the
Albany Institute. You will see stunning still lifes and lively genre scenes
offering a feast for the eyes, food for thought and a sampling of Dutch
foodways.

    Guest curators Donna R. Barnes and Peter Rose bring together
perspectives from art history and culinary history. Still lifes, tavern
scenes, market scenes, kitchen scenes and scenes of festive occasions by
more than 30 artists such as Jan Steen, Clara Peeters, Adriaen van Ostade,
Jan Davidsz. de Heem, Pieter Claesz., and Willem Claesz. Heda will be
featured.
    Matters of Taste is the first exhibition to explore the role of food and
drink in the art and life of Holland in the 17th century and their
influences in the New World, especially in New Netherland, and in American
traditions that last to the present day.
    The paintings are on loan from some of the most prestigious public and
private collections in the US, including the Metropolitan Museum of Art,
Worcester Museum of Art, Wadsworth Athenaeum, and the National Gallery or
Art. Many of the paintings belonging to private collectors have never been
exhibited before.
A book to accompany this exhibition can be purchased from the AIHA shop

Events:
Complete list of programs and events on all things Dutch at AIHA
How Matters of Taste relates to Albany:

Albany Underfoot -   September 21-March 2, 2003

    This exhibition explores Albany's past through a selection or artifacts
recently unearthed at four archeological excavations in downtown Albany.
    The landscape of Albany keeps changing as succeeding generations of
residents have left their mark on the city.  Archeological excavations
conducted during recent construction projects in downtown Albany have added
to our understanding of Albany's past. Albany Underfoot examines a selection
of artifacts and the stories they tell from four local sites.

    The Vereberg Tavern was an 18th -19th century rural tavern/homesite that
served as a stopping point between Albany and Schenectady.  It was excavated
in the 1950s by an amateur archaeologist.  Among the findings: fragments of
a black transfer printed earthenware saucer, a handless pearlware teacup
with pink freehand floral decoration, pipe fragments, flint arrowheads and
bone and metal buttons.

    The Fondey site was an urban warehouse that was destroyed in a fire in
1797, located in downtown Albany on Broadway.  Because merchant John Fondey,
Jr. specialized in the sale of ceramics, glassware and mirrors, there was a
tremendous inventory that was destroyed.  Much of the archaeological record
consists of millions of fragments of burned pearlware imported from England.

    The third site was a boarding house at 40 Howard Street from the
mid-19th century that hosted middle- and lower-class temporary residents in
an urban residential setting.  Among the typical ceramics and glass shards
found in the archaeological record, the findings also included fragrance
bottles, window glass, toothbrush, coins and a mid-19th century bone hairpin
with the figure of Queen Victoria in profile.

The Yates-Lansing site was the urban homesite of Abraham Yates, Jr., the
great political leader of late 18th century Albany, and his daughter's
family.  Excavations of a privy yielding the information from this
post-Revolutionary War site, also located on Broadway in downtown Albany.
Imported ceramics and glassware were among the findings from this family
home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Dutch Delft tiles      September 21-March 2, 2003

    This exhibition features a selection of eighteenth and nineteenth
century Delft tiles from the Albany Institute's collection.
    Home interiors in the Netherlands (the present-day Benelux nations) and
throughout the world were decorated with Delft wall tiles from the end of
the 16th century.  Since many Dutch houses were built near canals, these
waterproof squares of glazed and fired clay were often used as baseboards to
prevent rising damp.  They also decorated walls and were popularly placed
around fireplaces for easier cleaning.
    During the first half of the eighteenth century, Delft tiles were
imported to New York from the Netherlands.  Although Delft tiles are
primarily blue and white, purple and white tiles were also found in New York
colonial houses.
    The tiles in AIHA's collection were acquired by either gift or purchase.
In a few examples, we know the name of the Albany home from which they were
removed.  Of the more than 90 Delft tiles in the collection, all were
produced in the Netherlands.  The exact city or tileworks is not known.
    The majority of the tiles are 5 1/8 inches square and the "traditional"
blue and white, created when cobalt aluminate was added to the tin glaze.
If manganese oxide was added to the tin glaze, the result was purple and
white tiles.  Delft tiles were also polychromed.
    Biblical scenes from the Old and New Testaments were popular motifs but
early Delft tiles were also decorated with landscapes, flowers, animals and
people at work and play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Traders and culture    = ongoing

This exhibition explores Colonial Albany with AIHA's renowned collection of
material culture.
This exhibition is part of AIHA's continuing exhibitions.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 16:50:50 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] For Drea Elizabeth Vernon
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:51:05 +0200
Status: RO

Hi Drea,
Was there something about you were looking after a colour picture of the
portrait of Elizabeth Vernon, Countess of Southhampton. The picture where
she is wearing a pink corset.
Did you find it online?
Otherwise i have found a fine picture in colours.
Let me know if you are interrested.

Bjarne


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 16:57:56 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:59:09 +0200
Status: RO

Oh god! You really made my day with this. I have not laughed that much for a
looong time.
thanks a lot!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marsha Hamilton" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical costume-funny


> I was once in full Tudor and was asked if I was portraying Dolly Madison.
> Another time the same outfit raised the question of whether I was Queen
> Victoria.
>
> History--its just one big heap of old stuff.
>
> Marsha H.  (Back after a few years absence--good to hear everyone again.)
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 17:22:39 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork cap
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:22:01 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

 --- Catherine Kinsey  wrote: > > I wondered about this
myself.  The lacemakers cap really stands out
> when you look at other paintings contemporary to it.  Anyone seen a
> theory on this?  Was the painter perhaps trying to emphasize the
> domestic arts?  I don't know enough about the painting conventions of
> this period to hazard more than a guess.

As far as I know there isn't anyone who has 'bothered' to form a theory about
this, because I wonder if anyone else is as baffled as we are! *laughs*
Your guess is as good as mine, BUT I have to say when you look at her shoes
(one lying sideways on the floor) they are totally out of fashion too, they are
cut-outs and not closed ones. I keep also wondering about the print she has
haphazardly pinned onto the wall.

> Wasn't the period just before the ECW when samplers were taught in the
> girls schools and they went on to do the padded (now called stumpwork)
> work frames and boxes?  I think Kathleen Epstein did a book on this. 
> This would probably be a better type of needlework to steer folks
> toward, altho when you are hooked on counting blackwork it is a poor
> substitute :).

Lots and lots of stumpwork in my period, but the problem is none of this
decorates the clothes (and certainly not easily). Oh yes you can have LOTS of
mebroidery on your clothes, but only on very posh clothes and who is able to do
raised goldwork or bothers with real spangles? Not many... People want pretty
things to wear, and blackwork is a relatively 'easily' achievable option. (no,
I don't mean blackwork is easy, how would I know, I haven't even ever done it -
'course not, I can't wear it in my period *G*)

> Ok, anyone got directions/pattern for the wired cap, it is so RIGHT :).
>  Thanks for the pics!

Yes, yes, PHUUULEEEEZE!

Nicole - who has an appointment tomorrow in the Canterbury Cathedral archives
to study 17th c wills. wheehee.

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 17:50:41 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] For Drea Elizabeth Vernon
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:52:02 +0200
Status: RO

Hi.
Yes it is almost a A4 size. I have it in a book about embroidery from Royal
School of Needlework.

Bjarne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drea Leed" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] For Drea Elizabeth Vernon


> I didn't find it online; I believe I have it in a book, but the picture is
> small.  Do you have a large picture of it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drea
>
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
>
> > Hi Drea,
> > Was there something about you were looking after a colour picture of the
> > portrait of Elizabeth Vernon, Countess of Southhampton. The picture
where
> > she is wearing a pink corset.
> > Did you find it online?
> > Otherwise i have found a fine picture in colours.
> > Let me know if you are interrested.
> >
> > Bjarne
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 18:03:14 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork cap
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:04:14 +0200
Status: RO

Hi,
I dont want to interrup with anything serious about this, because it is not
a period
 i know much about.
But i have read a lot about the cirkumstances conserning lacemakers.
Their wages were lousy, they earned very very little.
Perhaps it was very common that those lacemakers who lived alone was living
very poorly. Perhaps they used worn out clothes because they could not
afford
to buy new ones, and they sertainly had no time to sew new clothes. They had
to
make lace all day long till long time in the evening, using only one candle
light.
Perhaps The painter wanted to tell how lousy they lived by showing they used
old
clothes.
Often the dealer they made lace for, provided them with thread and patterns
and he
practically owned them. They had no way out. If they wanted to emigrate to
another
provnse, the dealer was very upset, and tryed to stop this by all
means.......
This is one of my favourite topics, the story of lace makers. I have read
all their is to
find about the lacemakers at Tonder in Denmark.

Bjarne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork cap


> --- Catherine Kinsey  wrote: > > I wondered about this
> myself.  The lacemakers cap really stands out
> > when you look at other paintings contemporary to it.  Anyone seen a
> > theory on this?  Was the painter perhaps trying to emphasize the
> > domestic arts?  I don't know enough about the painting conventions of
> > this period to hazard more than a guess.
>
> As far as I know there isn't anyone who has 'bothered' to form a theory
about
> this, because I wonder if anyone else is as baffled as we are! *laughs*
> Your guess is as good as mine, BUT I have to say when you look at her
shoes
> (one lying sideways on the floor) they are totally out of fashion too,
they are
> cut-outs and not closed ones. I keep also wondering about the print she
has
> haphazardly pinned onto the wall.
>
> > Wasn't the period just before the ECW when samplers were taught in the
> > girls schools and they went on to do the padded (now called stumpwork)
> > work frames and boxes?  I think Kathleen Epstein did a book on this.
> > This would probably be a better type of needlework to steer folks
> > toward, altho when you are hooked on counting blackwork it is a poor
> > substitute :).
>
> Lots and lots of stumpwork in my period, but the problem is none of this
> decorates the clothes (and certainly not easily). Oh yes you can have LOTS
of
> mebroidery on your clothes, but only on very posh clothes and who is able
to do
> raised goldwork or bothers with real spangles? Not many... People want
pretty
> things to wear, and blackwork is a relatively 'easily' achievable option.
(no,
> I don't mean blackwork is easy, how would I know, I haven't even ever done
it -
> 'course not, I can't wear it in my period *G*)
>
> > Ok, anyone got directions/pattern for the wired cap, it is so RIGHT :).
> >  Thanks for the pics!
>
> Yes, yes, PHUUULEEEEZE!
>
> Nicole - who has an appointment tomorrow in the Canterbury Cathedral
archives
> to study 17th c wills. wheehee.
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs
> Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: marquis@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 18:34:09 2002
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] For Drea Elizabeth Vernon
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:32:57 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

I didn't find it online; I believe I have it in a book, but the picture is
small.  Do you have a large picture of it?

Thanks,

Drea

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

> Hi Drea,
> Was there something about you were looking after a colour picture of the
> portrait of Elizabeth Vernon, Countess of Southhampton. The picture where
> she is wearing a pink corset.
> Did you find it online?
> Otherwise i have found a fine picture in colours.
> Let me know if you are interrested.
>
> Bjarne
>
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 19:55:26 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] artistic conventions
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	A few years back there was mention of several sources that
discussed medieval artistic conventions in relation to clothing.  E.g.,
tipoffs that someone was foreign, associated with ___, or exotic in some
other way.  One of them was Signs of Otherness by Ruth Mellinkoff.  Does
anyone remember or know of any others?

--annora

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 23 21:48:16 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Kate -- Re: History of nuns' dress? Help!
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At 9:10 AM +0100 10/23/02, Kate M Bunting wrote:
>  >>> claning@igc.org 10/22/02 08:01pm >>> wrote:
>
>>It does, BTW, seem to be an urban legend (to tie in another thread!) that
>>nuns' costumes are simply "fossilized" medieval garb. While some of 
>>them >did, of course, have their origins then, there HAVE been 
>>changes -
>
>What I actually suggested was that the habits I remembered seeing in 
>my childhood were fossilised mediaeval garb - I know they have 
>modernised since then.

Apologies -- I know you did, and I didn't mean you -- just that this 
is another urban legend I'd like to head off before it starts :)
-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork cap
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:33:33 +1000 (EST)
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 --- N Kipar  wrote:
> Lots and lots of stumpwork in my period..


Apologies if this is a question best suited to a
needlework list, but I was wondering whether anyone
could give me a brief explanation of what stumpwork
is? A pic of an example would be cool too, if there's
one online to be had. Thanks. :)



Bella

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 --- N Kipar  wrote:
> Lots and lots of stumpwork in my period..


Apologies if this is a question best suited to a
needlework list, but I was wondering whether anyone
could give me a brief explanation of what stumpwork
is? A pic of an example would be cool too, if there's
one online to be had. Thanks. :)



Bella

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 00:13:43 2002
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From: Brenda Bell 
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Subject: [h-cost] famous 16th c. bumroll picture (Drea Leed)
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:11:34 -0400
Status: RO

At Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:46:25 -0400 (EDT), Drea Leed wrote:

>Here's another question for y'all...I'm putting together an article on
>bumrolls, and am looking for the actual, honest-to-god real location and
>source for that c. 1600 Flemish print that shows several women trying on
>bumrolls.  It's in Corsets & Crinolines by Norah Waugh, Queen Elizabeth's
>Wardrobe Unlock'd by Janet Arnold, and others.  Unfortunately, the source
>is always cited as "from a Private Collection".  Nowhere in the
>bibliography or citations or "thanks-for-letting-us-use-this-picture"
>sections is anything further mentioned.

I saw this one a couple of months ago at the Metropolitan Museum of Art's 
Costume Institute exhibit, "Extreme Beauty: The Body Transformed". It's 
copied in the collection catalog in a double-page spread (pp. 106-107). The 
info on it is:

"After Maarten de Vos, _The Vanity of Women: Masks and Bustles_, engraving, 
ca. 1600. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Costume Institute. Purchase, 
Irene Lewisohn Trust, 2001 (2001.341.1)."

Hope this helps.


Brenda F. Bell
webwarren@earthlink.net


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kate -- Re: History of nuns' dress? Help!
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:04:36 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

 --- Chris Laning  wrote: >
> Apologies -- I know you did, and I didn't mean you -- just that this 
> is another urban legend I'd like to head off before it starts :)

That was an urban legend? Never knew that, because I had never heard claimed
what you warned of. Maybe I just don't hear/know urban legends. Yeah right.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Picture: Re: [h-cost] Stumpwork (was Blackwork cap)
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:15:07 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

 --- Bella  wrote: >  --- N Kipar
 wrote:
> > Lots and lots of stumpwork in my period..
> 
> 
> Apologies if this is a question best suited to a
> needlework list, but I was wondering whether anyone
> could give me a brief explanation of what stumpwork
> is? A pic of an example would be cool too, if there's
> one online to be had. Thanks. :)

There you are Bella, a lovely stumpwork panel of Charles II and Catherine from
Braganza:

http://www.kipar.org/embroidery/maidstone_beadwork.jpg

The info to the panel is here:
http://www.kipar.org/costumes_embroidery.html

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: lacemaker (picture) Re: [h-cost] Blackwork cap
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:19:30 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

Wow, thank you Bjarne, that was really interesting. I have to say about the
painting though that although she is wearing old fashioned clothes, they are
very neat and don't look worn. Let's try to find the pic online...

Ha! I knew I had it scanned and up on my site, it's in the Dutch galleries:

http://www.kipar.org/paintings/dutch/spitze.jpg

I am actually wondering if the paintings hasn't been dated wrong. Well, hm,
unless he signed it with a date of course *L*

Nicole

 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Hi,
> I dont want to interrup with anything serious about this, because it is not
> a period
>  i know much about.
> But i have read a lot about the cirkumstances conserning lacemakers.
> Their wages were lousy, they earned very very little.
> Perhaps it was very common that those lacemakers who lived alone was living
> very poorly. Perhaps they used worn out clothes because they could not
> afford
> to buy new ones, and they sertainly had no time to sew new clothes. They had
> to
> make lace all day long till long time in the evening, using only one candle
> light.
> Perhaps The painter wanted to tell how lousy they lived by showing they used
> old
> clothes.
> Often the dealer they made lace for, provided them with thread and patterns
> and he
> practically owned them. They had no way out. If they wanted to emigrate to
> another
> provnse, the dealer was very upset, and tryed to stop this by all
> means.......
> This is one of my favourite topics, the story of lace makers. I have read
> all their is to
> find about the lacemakers at Tonder in Denmark.
> 
> Bjarne


=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: History of nuns' dress?
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:39:09 +0100 (BST)
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 --- Chris Laning  wrote: > Probably the best resource that I
know of on medieval religious
> women's garb is Desiree Koslin's PhD dissertation, _The Dress of
> Monastic & Religious Women as seen in Art from the Early Middle Ages
> to the Reformation_. I haven't read all of it yet, but have been
> delighted with the bits I have dipped into. I was able to get a copy
> of this through UMI Dissertation Services (it's UMI #9917057), who 
> have this and many
> other theses and dissertations on microfilm, and will print and send
> a paper copy for (I think it was) something like $35. They are at :
> http://www.bellhowell.infolearning.com

Cheers! I ordered it straight away, amazingly enough the price is the same for
shipping to the UK, 34 dollars. It'll take 2-3 weeks, but nevermind. I also
checked with my ILL and they don't get dissertations from the US anymore, the
British Library stopped buying them and because this is from 1999 i have to buy
it. Still, it is pretty good service to get a dissertation to me doorstep. :-)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
L'Age d'Or & Kirke's Lambs 
Civilian & Military  Living History Society 1660-1715
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: marquis@kipar.org

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www.patternstudio.com

I know nothing about these people, having just followed a link somebody 
else posted.  I don't even know if the glove patterns come in sizes.  But 
they do seem to come in several shapes, including men's, and 
women's-very-long (one pattern for leather and the other pattern for Spandex).

Kayta

    //// \\\
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From: Chiara 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] glove patterns
References:  <4.3.1.2.20021024043618.04ceed00@mail.frys.com>
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Her patterns are all modern, non of them are from any of the periods that most of those on this list use or need.

I have several of them myself cause that is what I do, make gloves. :)

She is wonderful and I think she is just great!! Her pattern can be traced to the patterns used from 1950's on. That is pretty much when they started to make the thumb pattern that we see in all our modern day gloves. It really did not catch on at first. It was not until Jackie O in the 60's that they really took off. So that is the pattern that she uses.

She loves to talk about her work and her patterns. She has a kit and will stay on the phone with you while you try to work through it which is a rare gift. I highly recommend that everyone try her patterns if they fit into your period. She is the closet thing we have here in the U.S. to a master glove maker. There are about 2 others in this country that in my eyes have that status, the rest, well, I do not recommend them at all. They are in it for the money only an not the art and their work is horrible.

Chiara
http://www.glove.org/ (uploading new code tonight...and pictures)

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 04:39:07 -0700, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:
>www.patternstudio.com
>
>I know nothing about these people, having just followed a link somebody 
>else posted.  I don't even know if the glove patterns come in sizes.  But 
>they do seem to come in several shapes, including men's, and 
>women's-very-long (one pattern for leather and the other pattern for Spandex).
>
>Kayta
>
>    //// \
>   ////-@@\
>  ((((   7 )))
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>
>_______________________________________________
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>
>

-- 
Chiara

-- 
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*sigh* If I didn't already want to hate you for your lovely clothes, I
sure could for your research opportunities! 
--sue, going off to look at her bookshelves to remind herself that she
has new, kewl books she can read, so she doesn't get to be *too* grumpy!

N Kipar wrote:
> 
> Yes, yes, PHUUULEEEEZE!
> 
> Nicole - who has an appointment tomorrow in the Canterbury Cathedral archives
> to study 17th c wills. wheehee.
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From: Jonna Hayden 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] For Drea Elizabeth Vernon
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Drea-

There's a large picture of this portrait in "The Treasure
Houses of Britian" Five Hundred Years of Private Patronage
and Art Collecting, edited by Gervase Jackson-Stops. 
ISBN:0-300-03504-7, page 129.  The reproduction is so good
you can see she's wearing a sheer petticoat over her
skirt--and the waistline of the petticoat follows the line
of the bottom of the corset!

Jonna
--- Drea Leed  wrote:
> I didn't find it online; I believe I have it in a book,
> but the picture is
> small.  Do you have a large picture of it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drea
> 
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
> 
> > Hi Drea,
> > Was there something about you were looking after a
> colour picture of the
> > portrait of Elizabeth Vernon, Countess of Southhampton.
> The picture where
> > she is wearing a pink corset.
> > Did you find it online?
> > Otherwise i have found a fine picture in colours.
> > Let me know if you are interrested.
> >
> > Bjarne
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] For Drea Elizabeth Vernon
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:32:38 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

Wow!  I may have to get that book, too.

:)

Thanks,

Drea


On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

> Hi.
> Yes it is almost a A4 size. I have it in a book about embroidery from Royal
> School of Needlework.
>
> Bjarne
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Drea Leed" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 11:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] For Drea Elizabeth Vernon
>
>
> > I didn't find it online; I believe I have it in a book, but the picture is
> > small.  Do you have a large picture of it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Drea
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Drea,
> > > Was there something about you were looking after a colour picture of the
> > > portrait of Elizabeth Vernon, Countess of Southhampton. The picture
> where
> > > she is wearing a pink corset.
> > > Did you find it online?
> > > Otherwise i have found a fine picture in colours.
> > > Let me know if you are interrested.
> > >
> > > Bjarne
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > h-costume mailing list
> > > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 10:41:31 2002
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] famous 16th c. bumroll picture (Drea Leed)
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:40:14 -0400 (EDT)
Status: RO

Brenda,

Thanks so much!  This is exactly what I was looking for. The internet is
truly a wonderful thing.

Yours,

Drea


On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Brenda Bell wrote:

> At Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:46:25 -0400 (EDT), Drea Leed wrote:
>
> >Here's another question for y'all...I'm putting together an article on
> >bumrolls, and am looking for the actual, honest-to-god real location and
> >source for that c. 1600 Flemish print that shows several women trying on
> >bumrolls.  It's in Corsets & Crinolines by Norah Waugh, Queen Elizabeth's
> >Wardrobe Unlock'd by Janet Arnold, and others.  Unfortunately, the source
> >is always cited as "from a Private Collection".  Nowhere in the
> >bibliography or citations or "thanks-for-letting-us-use-this-picture"
> >sections is anything further mentioned.
>
> I saw this one a couple of months ago at the Metropolitan Museum of Art's
> Costume Institute exhibit, "Extreme Beauty: The Body Transformed". It's
> copied in the collection catalog in a double-page spread (pp. 106-107). The
> info on it is:
>
> "After Maarten de Vos, _The Vanity of Women: Masks and Bustles_, engraving,
> ca. 1600. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Costume Institute. Purchase,
> Irene Lewisohn Trust, 2001 (2001.341.1)."
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> Brenda F. Bell
> webwarren@earthlink.net
>
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 11:43:38 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Research, was Re: [h-cost] Blackwork cap
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:42:16 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

Awwwww.. Sue... it isn't as exciting as it sounds, I sat two hours pinning down
numbers from indexes, and am only on page 50 of index no one. So, that means I
have to do that for many more days to come to then go to the microfiche to
actually take a look at the wills and inventories themselves, and THEN I get to
go to Maidstone and continue the whole shebang (but on Saturdays) in the county
archives.
*G*

Nicole - who finds trawling through indexes therapeutic

--- Sue Clemenger  wrote: > *sigh* If I didn't already want
to hate you for your lovely clothes, I
> sure could for your research opportunities! 
> --sue, going off to look at her bookshelves to remind herself that she
> has new, kewl books she can read, so she doesn't get to be *too* grumpy!
> 
> N Kipar wrote:
> > 
> > Yes, yes, PHUUULEEEEZE!
> > 
> > Nicole - who has an appointment tomorrow in the Canterbury Cathedral
> archives
> > to study 17th c wills. wheehee.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 12:37:59 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Journal Fashion Theory
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Is anyone here subscribed the the journal 'Fashion Theory' which started back
in 1997 and comes out quarterly?

It doeshave some bits on historical fashion, and I wondered if anyone here can
vouch for its quality. Aileen Ribeiro is one of the editors, so that's hopeful.

Cheers, I wouldn't ask if I didn't know that this list is a gold mine of
information

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 15:13:25 2002
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:08:46 -0400
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On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 Nicole  wrote:

>  --- Chris Laning  wrote: >
> > Apologies -- I know you did, and I didn't
> mean you -- just that this 
> > is another urban legend I'd like to head off
> before it starts :)
> 
> That was an urban legend? Never knew that,
> because I had never heard claimed
> what you warned of. Maybe I just don't
> hear/know urban legends. Yeah right.

Well, it seems to me that every time someone asks about medieval nuns'
clothing, the #1 piece of advice they get is to go ask some modern nuns. (Or
else their own parish priest....) Makes me grit my teeth, because while
occasionally you WILL find modern nuns who know about the history of the
old-fashioned clothing (which, of course, they don't always wear any more),
usually they don't -- and they don't always KNOW that they don't know, so they
will often give helpful, well-meaning comments about what they THINK the
history must have been.

One reason people get referred to modern nuns for this question is that there
definitely *is* a myth out there that nuns' clothing has not changed since the
Middle Ages. Like other "urban legends," it has an element of truth to it --
but  I keep having to point out that as the statement stands, this is highly
unlikely. Like any other costume, you will find isolated "survivals" here and
there -- but the business of nuns is prayer and service, not historical
re-enactment, and most of them will not hesitate to make changes in their
clothing for practical reasons. (This was true even before Vatican II.)

BTW, I was on a retreat at a monastery of the Order of the Visitation once,
and when I was sent to help fold laundry, I was tickled to discover that while
the nuns wear modern-looking street-length dresses now, their _nightgowns_ are
still cut like a Renaissance shirt, complete with square underarm gussets!

Also BTW, _Textile Conservation & Research_ (from the Abegg Institute) has
pictures of a tunic that belonged to St. Francis of Assisi and a mantle that
belonged to St. Clare.

____________________________________________________________
0  Chris Laning
|  
+  Davis, California
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 15:13:28 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Lacemaker and blackwork cap
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:09:57 -0500
Status: RO

Ha! I knew I had it scanned and up on my site, it's in the Dutch
galleries:

http://www.kipar.org/paintings/dutch/spitze.jpg 

I am actually wondering if the paintings hasn't been dated wrong. Well,
hm,
unless he signed it with a date of course *L*

Nicole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks!  Looking closer at this picture again I noticed the broom
leaning in the corner.  Could this be another message, along with the
less-than-fashionable shoes, that this is a working class girl as Bjarne
suggests?  Could the cap be a leftover from better times?  What about
her bodice, how uptodate is it?

Catherine
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 16:19:40 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off With Their Corsets !
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

here's a photo from the same story

http://www.sfgate.com/news/pictures/2002/10/23/unveiled8.jpg



> 
> Here is a link to a news item which might amuse you:-
> 
> http://abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s708442.htm
> 
> I wonder what the corsets looked like before they went ?
> 
> Linda Walton.
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From: Sandra Catherine Kaye 
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:38:11 -0500 (CDT)
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Hello!  I'm new to the list and have been lurking a bit.  My interest was
peaked enough by the discussion of the 17th century portrait of the
lacemaker.  I primarily do 16th century garb, but I'm an art history major
and have an interest in all periods (even if I don't do recreations for
other periods.)  I was wondering if anyone had the artists name on that
painting so I could find it on-line...?  If I think of it, I'll ask one of
my professors, who specialized in 17th century art, for his spin on the
meaning...

Thanks!
Sandy

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 16:55:07 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Caspar Netscher, was Re: [h-cost] Re:Blackwork Cap
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:54:03 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

Hello and welcome Sandy!

 --- Sandra Catherine Kaye  wrote: > Hello!  I'm new to the
list and have been lurking a bit.  My interest was
> peaked enough by the discussion of the 17th century portrait of the
> lacemaker.  I primarily do 16th century garb, but I'm an art history major
> and have an interest in all periods (even if I don't do recreations for
> other periods.) 

Whoohoo, an extra-welcome then :-) even more expertise in this list, don't
think we can ever have enough.

 I was wondering if anyone had the artists name on that
> painting so I could find it on-line...?

Caspar Netscher, Dutch painter from the Hague, I saw several different dates,
all around the beginning of the 1660s. Actually, there is a date on the print
on the wall and a signature, and it does look like 1662. Here is one:

http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/n/netscher/lacemake.jpg

and the same scan but on a different site:
http://www.gbacg.org/images/lacemake.jpg

Lovely lovely coif!

  If I think of it, I'll ask one of
> my professors, who specialized in 17th century art, for his spin on the
> meaning...

Oh yes please! do ask about the meaning of the two mussels on the floor, it has
been driving me mad, because I couldn't find their meaning, and I don't believe
that there isn't one. :-)

Nicole

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Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 16:58:51 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lacemaker and blackwork cap
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:58:23 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

 --- Catherine Kinsey  wrote: > Thanks!  Looking closer at
this picture again I noticed the broom
> leaning in the corner.  Could this be another message, along with the
> less-than-fashionable shoes, that this is a working class girl as Bjarne
> suggests?  Could the cap be a leftover from better times?  What about
> her bodice, how uptodate is it?

Of course she is productive class, so much is clear, but her bodice is well
kept, and look, it even has fancy gold lacing! The cut of the bodice is
perfectly fashionable for the period. Could be from the 1650s but is fine for
the 60stoo. Bodice and skirt are from wool, and spotless.
Furthermore, you see brooms very often in Dutch paintings, signifying
housewives/chores and domesticity.
I am most intrigued by the whole composition, why is she sitting in a seemingly
empty place against a threadvare wall facing nothing, with that print slapped
onto the wall.

Nicole

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 17:05:02 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: History of nuns' dress? Help!
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:04:40 +0100 (BST)
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 --- claning@igc.org wrote: > > Well, it seems to me that every time someone
asks about medieval nuns'
> clothing, the #1 piece of advice they get is to go ask some modern nuns. (Or
> else their own parish priest....) Makes me grit my teeth, because while
> occasionally you WILL find modern nuns who know about the history of the
> old-fashioned clothing (which, of course, they don't always wear any more),
> usually they don't -- and they don't always KNOW that they don't know, so
> they
> will often give helpful, well-meaning comments about what they THINK the
> history must have been.

Okay, well, I have to say that I have NEVER heard that advice before, so, uhm,
'always' and #1 piece of advice is perhaps, well, a tad of a generalisation and
exaggeration.

> BTW, I was on a retreat at a monastery of the Order of the Visitation once,
> and when I was sent to help fold laundry, I was tickled to discover that
> while
> the nuns wear modern-looking street-length dresses now, their _nightgowns_
> are
> still cut like a Renaissance shirt, complete with square underarm gussets!

How sweet! Actually, go and take a look at teh latest past times catalogue and
for years they have been selling their nightgowns, as far as I remember they
come completely with gussets too (some styles at least).

Looking forward to receiving the dissertation now. What a shame their search
function constantly gave an internal server error. Oh well, will try again
tomorrow. What I really like is that UMI charges as much for Europe shipping as
for within the US. That's fair.

Nicole

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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 20:11:49 2002
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Status: RO


Another question about this same portrait:  What is in her hair, just
forward of the cap?

Emma

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 24 20:26:44 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Journal Fashion Theory
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:26:06 -0700
Status: RO

Hi Nicole,

We subscribe to this journal at the library I work at, and it's an excellent
source for scholarly research in fashion.  I highly recommend it!

- Kendrda

----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
Subject: [h-cost] Journal Fashion Theory


> Is anyone here subscribed the the journal 'Fashion Theory' which started
back
> in 1997 and comes out quarterly?
>
> It doeshave some bits on historical fashion, and I wondered if anyone here
can
> vouch for its quality. Aileen Ribeiro is one of the editors, so that's
hopeful.


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Oct 25 02:34:46 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off With Their Corsets !
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:34:55 +0100
Status: RO

Thank you for this link.  It's a pleasure to see the ladies as the sculptor
intended.

Is it possible that there is a picture from before their corsets were
removed ?  My mind was still running on the debate about the uses of
surviving metal corsets when I saw this item, and I've been wondering how
they looked.  (And whether the article got the date right.)

Linda Walton.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Heather Meadows" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off With Their Corsets !


> here's a photo from the same story
>
> http://www.sfgate.com/news/pictures/2002/10/23/unveiled8.jpg
>
> >
> > Here is a link to a news item which might amuse you:-
> >
> > http://abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s708442.htm
> >
> > I wonder what the corsets looked like before they went ?
> >
> > Linda Walton.

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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:11:54 +0100 (BST)
Status: RO

 --- Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> wrote: > 
> Another question about this same portrait:  What is in her hair, just
> forward of the cap?
> 
> Emma

They seem to be little beads, dangling at the temple, it's seen in quite a few
paintings of the period.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] glove patterns
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 23:37:33 -0700
Status: RO


>Her pattern can be traced to the patterns used from 1950's on. That is 
>pretty much when they started to make the thumb pattern that we see in all 
>our modern day gloves. It really did not catch on at first. It was not 
>until Jackie O in the 60's that they really took off. So that is the 
>pattern that she uses.

Maybe you're the one to ask about Victorian glove thumbs.  How are they 
different from modern ones?  Davenport's book has Diderot's glove pattern, 
the one from his 18th century encyclopedia.  Are Victorian ones like 
that?  I am very interested in making my own gloves, as my hand is very 
wide.  I have made a couple of pairs already, using modern gloves taken 
apart for patterns.


Kayta

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To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork cap
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:14:48 -0400
Status: RO

Bella asked:
> Apologies if this is a question best suited to a
> needlework list, but I was wondering whether anyone
> could give me a brief explanation of what stumpwork
> is? A pic of an example would be cool too, if there's
> one online to be had. Thanks. :)

Stumpwork is an embroidery technique of the 17th century, in which
detached buttonhole stitch is used to make three-dimensional figures.
You will often see boxes and other household items covered in it,
especially with garden-like scenes of a man and woman with trees,
flowers, animals, etc.  It's not much used on clothing.

K.

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I thought this normally busy list was very quiet. When I received my #1402
digest last night, I noticed I hadn't received the six prior to this -- none
since #1396!  Wonder where they went -- floating out into cyberspace no
doubt....

Connie E. Fairchild 
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Subject: [h-cost] leather doublet
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:06:47 -0500
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I am working on recreating the doublet and pluderhosen worn by Nils Sture
that is Janet Arnold. However, I have not worked with leather before and was
wondering if there are any tips, hints, quirks, etc. that I should be aware
of before starting to cut.

Also, it looks like the lining and outer layers are made seperately, and
then a strip of leather is used to bind them together, rather than sewing
right sides together like I would do with fabric. How would I do this part?
Do I need to tuck the "raw" edges under, or can I leave them out? Do I need
to sew this all down by hand, or is there a way to use a sewing machine? (If
by hand, I need to get working! This is a Christmas present for my brother).

Thanks!


**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
Bristol,
BRF FOF

So many books, so little time

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************


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Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance Art Exhibit in Chicago and Detroit
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:21:23 -0400
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Did anyone get to this exhibit while it was in Detroit?  I'm planning to
attend in Nov. while it's in Chicago and I'd like to find out more about
what pieces are being shown, so that I can read up on them. I consider it a
once in a lifetime opportunity to see some of these pieces, since they are
billed as being rarely loaned.  I want to be well informed before I see them
so I don't come back wishing I'd looked more closely at something, or
totally missed what the artist was trying to convey.  I'm familiar with some
of the the ones mentioned through Art History, but what else is included?
Any suggestions? 

Connie E. Fairchild 
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From: Ron Carnegie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:46:24 -0400
Status: RO

At 11:46 PM 10/22/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi. Unfortunately, I didn't make that chair, David Hoffmann did. I wish I
>had his skill in woodworking...oh, well.  Mike T.
>
>
> > By the way, Mike Tartaglio made the black triangle-chair (is there an
> > official name for those?) in the 'JeffD.jpg' picture.  Nice work!
>
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  Mike,

                 How can I contact Mr. Hoffmann to purchase such a thing?

Cheers,

Ron Carnegie
r.carnegie@verizon.net
	*************************************************
	"The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that
	 once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked
	 other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking
	 their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now
	 all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we
	 ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow."
				G.M. Trevelyan
	*************************************************

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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:49:51 -0500
Status: RO

Mussels?  I hadn't even noticed these :).  I'm getting quite intriqued
by this portrait and the discussion.  She is a little out of my favorite
period but I have always like this picture because it was of a
bobbinlacer.  Sandy; if you can shed any more light on this please do!

My current favorite theory; she is the daughter of a wealthy merchant
or noble family, fallen on hard times.  Ok, so I read to many romances
in my youth....my majority....my rapidly approaching middle age :) :)
:).

Catherine
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:59:36 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

Hi Constance.

Do you mean this exhibit--"The Medici, Michelangelo,
and the Art of Late Renaissance Florence?" If so, it
has yet to open in Chicago (November 9, 2002 through
February 2, 2003)and will not be in Detroit until
mid-March 2003 (through June 8).

For more information, please go to:
http://www.artic.edu/aic/visitor_info/medici_release.html

I'm hoping to go to Detroit to see it during spring
break in March assuming that the weather cooperates!
Whenever I've been to Michigan in the winter, the
weather's been absolutely horrid. The last time I
ventured into Michigan in the winter, the van's tires
froze to the parking lot...

kate
who's saving her pennies so I can afford to go *and*
to buy the catalog (There will be an English-language
version of the Italian-language catalog, published by
the Yale University Press and the Detriot Institute of
Art.)

  
--- "Fairchild, Connie E."
 wrote:
> Did anyone get to this exhibit while it was in
> Detroit?  I'm planning to
> attend in Nov. while it's in Chicago and I'd like to
> find out more about
> what pieces are being shown, so that I can read up
> on them. I consider it a
> once in a lifetime opportunity to see some of these
> pieces, since they are
> billed as being rarely loaned.  I want to be well
> informed before I see them
> so I don't come back wishing I'd looked more closely
> at something, or
> totally missed what the artist was trying to convey.
>  I'm familiar with some
> of the the ones mentioned through Art History, but
> what else is included?
> Any suggestions? 
> 
> Connie E. Fairchild 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Oct 25 16:21:00 2002
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
Status: RO

A link from the exhibit at the Palazzo Strozzi:
http://www.italica.rai.it/eng/principal/topics/art/michelangelo_genio.htm

This shows 3 pieces included in the exhibit:
http://www.italica.rai.it/eng/principal/topics/art/michelangelo_genio/works.htm

And the catalog is shipping next week (11/1). It's
available from Amazon for 30% off, so it's $42 and has
free shipping!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0300094957/qid=1035576978/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6511067-6901639?v=glance

kate

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Oct 25 18:07:47 2002
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:02:43 -0400
Status: RO



Nicole:

Well, I've heard the advice to check modern orders with questions about
medieval clothes before, even if you haven't! And if you check the archives
here, you'll find it.

It may be good advice if you can contact a chapter house and if they have
documents about the habits in their archives, but I have no idea whether
that's common or not.

BTW, I am getting a masters degree at our local Catholic seminary, and the
very large library has three books on church vestments. Total. One was on
the historical development of vestments, which I looked at, and the other
two were of no interest to me so I don't remember what they were about. I
saw a very interesting book for sale in a bookstore (and of course I don't
remember what it was called) about current ideas and styles of church
vestments, altar cloths, hangings, etc. But the seminary doesn't have it --
or anything else on vestments published since before Vatican II.

I guess they're just not interested.

Gail Finke


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Oct 25 18:41:32 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] cotton netting & velour
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Hi,

Does anyone know where I can find inexpensive cotton netting and cotton
velour?  In Velour I mean the knit stuff, not the woven.  I want white so I
can dye it.

tia
susan

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance Art Exhibit in Chicago and Detroit
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2024 18:41:07 -0400
Status: RO

I don't suppose anyone knows where I could find a list of which paintings
exactly will be part of the exhibition? I'm still looking for that elusive
Laudomia de Medici portrait...

----- Original Message -----
From: "kate" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:59 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance Art Exhibit in Chicago and Detroit


> Hi Constance.
>
> Do you mean this exhibit--"The Medici, Michelangelo,
> and the Art of Late Renaissance Florence?" If so, it
> has yet to open in Chicago (November 9, 2002 through
> February 2, 2003)and will not be in Detroit until
> mid-March 2003 (through June 8).
>
> For more information, please go to:
> http://www.artic.edu/aic/visitor_info/medici_release.html
>
> I'm hoping to go to Detroit to see it during spring
> break in March assuming that the weather cooperates!
> Whenever I've been to Michigan in the winter, the
> weather's been absolutely horrid. The last time I
> ventured into Michigan in the winter, the van's tires
> froze to the parking lot...
>
> kate
> who's saving her pennies so I can afford to go *and*
> to buy the catalog (There will be an English-language
> version of the Italian-language catalog, published by
> the Yale University Press and the Detriot Institute of
> Art.)
>
>
> --- "Fairchild, Connie E."
>  wrote:
> > Did anyone get to this exhibit while it was in
> > Detroit?  I'm planning to
> > attend in Nov. while it's in Chicago and I'd like to
> > find out more about
> > what pieces are being shown, so that I can read up
> > on them. I consider it a
> > once in a lifetime opportunity to see some of these
> > pieces, since they are
> > billed as being rarely loaned.  I want to be well
> > informed before I see them
> > so I don't come back wishing I'd looked more closely
> > at something, or
> > totally missed what the artist was trying to convey.
> >  I'm familiar with some
> > of the the ones mentioned through Art History, but
> > what else is included?
> > Any suggestions?
> >
> > Connie E. Fairchild
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 23:48:03 +0000
Status: RO

The painting is in the Wallace Collection in London.
Nicole, I think the mussels are something to do with virginity or loss of 
it. The shoes on the floor are something to do with house keeping or a sign 
of bad housekeeping.
I must dig out  a book I have on symbolism in Dutch genre art.
regards
Joy


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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:55:19 -0500
Status: RO

I'm not sure which portraits they will be showing, but they will have an
extant dress on exhibit- I think it's one from Isabella D'Este but I
might not have the name right. A group of us from Bristol have been hired
to do Renaissance dance at two performances in conjunction with the
exhibit. Goody!


Karen




On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 18:41:07 -0400 "Audrey Bergeron-Morin"
 writes:
> I don't suppose anyone knows where I could find a list of which 
> paintings
> exactly will be part of the exhibition? I'm still looking for that 
> elusive
> Laudomia de Medici portrait...

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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:09:48 -0500
Status: RO

Karen - when are you going to be dancing?

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
Bristol,
BRF FOF

So many books, so little time

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance Art Exhibit in Chicago and Detroit


> I'm not sure which portraits they will be showing, but they will have an
> extant dress on exhibit- I think it's one from Isabella D'Este but I
> might not have the name right. A group of us from Bristol have been hired
> to do Renaissance dance at two performances in conjunction with the
> exhibit. Goody!
>
>
> Karen
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 18:41:07 -0400 "Audrey Bergeron-Morin"
>  writes:
> > I don't suppose anyone knows where I could find a list of which
> > paintings
> > exactly will be part of the exhibition? I'm still looking for that
> > elusive
> > Laudomia de Medici portrait...
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 12:26:29 2002
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From: "Linda J. Thompson" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: leather doublet
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:24:35 -0500
Status: RO

I sew with garment grade leather and here are the things I have found out.
  The reason you have a leather binding along the edge is unless you have an extremely 
lightweight leather hide or split (plonge 1.5 oz.), you really can't successfully sew the 
lining to the leather right sides together and turn them to the inside without a lot of 
bulk along the seams.  You construct your lining then sew the lining to the leather all 
along the outer perimeter seam allowance edge, inside where your binding will be attached. 
  The raw edges are fine, since you will be covering them up with the binding.
	If the leather is light enough for the side seams I sew it right sides together, then lay 
the seam open on the inside and use a rubber cement to glue it to that position to reduce 
the bulk as much as possible.  If it is a bit heavier leather that does not want to lay 
flat, I either use a rubber mallet to pound it into position (breaks the cell structure at 
the bend, sort of tenderizing it)... or do an overlap seam instead.
	For binding I cut strips that are about 1/4" wider than I need, wrap the edges as I sew 
with the machine (topstitch) keeping it as balanced and even as I can, then trim the 
excess leather off along the seam line.  Nice and neat... Or you can do it the original 
way, and cut it to the exact finished size you want and with a leather needle sew it.  (Do 
not know if that would be with a stab stitch or a whip stitch?)
	My sewing machine is rated to sew light leathers and it does a fine job,with a walking 
foot. I just use a leather needle and regular thread.  But even at that there is a lot of 
hand sewing and shaping at the ends of things etc.


> From: 
> 
> I am working on recreating the doublet and pluderhosen worn by Nils Sture
> that is Janet Arnold. However, I have not worked with leather before and was
> wondering if there are any tips, hints, quirks, etc. that I should be aware
> of before starting to cut.
> 
> Also, it looks like the lining and outer layers are made seperately, and
> then a strip of leather is used to bind them together, rather than sewing
> right sides together like I would do with fabric. How would I do this part?
> Do I need to tuck the "raw" edges under, or can I leave them out? Do I need
> to sew this all down by hand, or is there a way to use a sewing machine? (If
> by hand, I need to get working! This is a Christmas present for my brother).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> **********************
> Rebecca Schmitt
> aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
> Bristol,
> BRF FOF
> 
> So many books, so little time
> 
> lotsofteapots@charter.net
> **********************
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 16
> From: "Fairchild, Connie E." 
> To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" 
> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:21:23 -0400
> Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance Art Exhibit in Chicago and Detroit
> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
> Did anyone get to this exhibit while it was in Detroit?  I'm planning to
> attend in Nov. while it's in Chicago and I'd like to find out more about
> what pieces are being shown, so that I can read up on them. I consider it a
> once in a lifetime opportunity to see some of these pieces, since they are
> billed as being rarely loaned.  I want to be well informed before I see them
> so I don't come back wishing I'd looked more closely at something, or
> totally missed what the artist was trying to convey.  I'm familiar with some
> of the the ones mentioned through Art History, but what else is included?
> Any suggestions? 
> 
> Connie E. Fairchild 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
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> 
> End of h-costume Digest
> 
> 


-- 
Linda Thompson

Visit www.seams-to-be.com
where Attitude is Everything

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 12:48:37 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance Art Exhibit in Chicago and Detroit
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Tuesday November 19 from 4:30-6:30. That one is an open house for
teachers. The other one is the Friday or Saturday after Thanksgiving for
the official 'wreathing' of the Art Institute lions. Apparently it's
going to be a little ceremony of some sort.


Karen

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 15:44:48 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] medieval exhibit in baltimore
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:42:50 -0400
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I just read today that an exhibit begins Oct. 27 at the Pierpont Morgan in
Baltimore. Unbound pages from a medieval manuscript (it's a famous one, but
I don't have the citation) showing pictures illustrating the Old Testament
will be displayed with artifacts from the era (the page showed a mail shirt
and a helm). I wish I lived anywhere near there! But some of you may . . .

Gail Finke
all the way in Cincinnati

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 16:22:38 2002
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Gail -- A far as I know there is no Pierpont Morgan in Baltimore (I'm from 
there). Could it be the Walters?

Kathleen Norvell

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Gail -- A far as I know there is no Pierpont Morgan in Baltimore (I'm from there). Could it be the Walters?



Kathleen Norvell

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 17:33:51 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: leather doublet
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> For binding I cut strips that are about 1/4" wider than I need, wrap the
edges as I sew
> with the machine (topstitch) keeping it as balanced and even as I can,
then trim the
> excess leather off along the seam line.  Nice and neat... Or you can do it
the original
> way, and cut it to the exact finished size you want and with a leather
needle sew it.  (Do
> not know if that would be with a stab stitch or a whip stitch?)

So, do you have the raw edges of the binding showing, or do you fold them
under? If folded under, then that's 4 layers from the binding (2 each side
folded over) and 2 from the garment?

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
Bristol,
BRF FOF

So many books, so little time

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 17:34:30 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance Art Exhibit in Chicago and Detroit
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Phewy, I can't make either of them. Get good pictures, OK?

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
Bristol,
BRF FOF

So many books, so little time

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 19:52:10 2002
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] medieval exhibit in baltimore
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:40:40 -0400
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This was sent to another list I'm on, I think it covers all the details
about this exhibit:

The Walters Art Museum in Baltimore opens an exhibit next week on the 
"Crusader Bible" which is a 13th century illuminated manuscript.
Actually 
some of the pictures are the 'standard' pictures that seem to show up in

all the picture books.
Information on the exhibit can be found here:
http://www.thewalters.org/html/exhibit_future_detail_simp.asp?ID=53


Information on the preview party can be found here:
http://www.thewalters.org/html/calendar_event.asp?ID=406

HTH,

Linda
Virginia Beach, Va

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke
Subject: [h-cost] medieval exhibit in baltimore

I just read today that an exhibit begins Oct. 27 at the Pierpont Morgan
in
Baltimore. Unbound pages from a medieval manuscript (it's a famous one,
but
I don't have the citation) showing pictures illustrating the Old
Testament
will be displayed with artifacts from the era (the page showed a mail
shirt
and a helm). I wish I lived anywhere near there! But some of you may . .
.

Gail Finke
all the way in Cincinnati




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From: Robin Netherton 
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 20:46:19 -0500 (CDT)
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On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Linda Rice wrote:

> The Walters Art Museum in Baltimore opens an exhibit next week on the
> "Crusader Bible" which is a 13th century illuminated manuscript.
...
> Information on the exhibit can be found here:
> http://www.thewalters.org/html/exhibit_future_detail_simp.asp?ID=53

Oh my GAWD. This is the Maciejowski Bible. I've never heard it called the
Crusader Bible before, but that's definitely easier to spell ;-) It
belongs to the Pierpont Morgan (New York) and is apparently on loan to the
Walters. This is probably the best single source I know for images of
Western European 13th century costume, in that it shows men and women of
various classes in reasonably realistic contexts, and shows many views and
angles of specific styles.

It exists in facsimile under the title "Old Testament Miniatures." Copies
(used) typically run about $120. I got mine for $65 because the binding
was broken, and boy did I feel lucky at that. I use it frequently.

It's of special interest to manuscript scholars because the Latin text is
glossed in Arabic and Hebrew, reflecting the hands of various owners over
the centuries.

I used to be within easy errand distance of the Walters and visited
frequently. No longer. Sigh. The show runs from 10/27 through 12/29. I
doubt I will be in the area in that time.

Someone, please go see it for me. OK?

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 22:25:02 2002
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From: "chiara" 
To: 
References: <4.3.1.2.20021024043618.04ceed00@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20021024043618.04ceed00@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20021024233438.04eefa90@mail.frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] glove patterns
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:24:12 -0500
Status: RO

There were two schools of thought from what I have seen. The high end made
by hand gloves continued to use the original thumb pattern while the mass
produced gloves were of the new style.

Uniformity was important in cutting costs. There was less waste this way.
There are documents where manufactures boasted that they could now get 7
pairs of gloves out of a section of hide where they used to be only able to
get 3 or 4 at the most.

Today that thumb is called the keystone thumb. It goes by various names but
this is the most recognizable name today. The hand made glove would have a
set-in thumb with or without the tiniest gusset at the stress point of the
base or welting along that part of the seam. The Keystone thumb always has
welting at this point.

Making either for your gloves should be fine. But the mark of how one
recognizes if the gloves are custom made for you specifically and those made
by a manufacturer will be apparent to the eye of those in full persona who
specifically look for status symbols. *giggle*

Unless of course they were made for you by the glovers in Grenoble. Then you
would have to work into the persona conversation about your trip abroad and
how you came to get your latest fashion glove from the creator of the glove
industry.

My period is not Victorian. So I would encourage you to actually get with
someone that has more knowledge on the persona bit from someone who is. :)

Sincerely,
Chiara
Ansteorra, Steppes

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] glove patterns


>
> >Her pattern can be traced to the patterns used from 1950's on. That is
> >pretty much when they started to make the thumb pattern that we see in
all
> >our modern day gloves. It really did not catch on at first. It was not
> >until Jackie O in the 60's that they really took off. So that is the
> >pattern that she uses.
>
> Maybe you're the one to ask about Victorian glove thumbs.  How are they
> different from modern ones?  Davenport's book has Diderot's glove pattern,
> the one from his 18th century encyclopedia.  Are Victorian ones like
> that?  I am very interested in making my own gloves, as my hand is very
> wide.  I have made a couple of pairs already, using modern gloves taken
> apart for patterns.
>
>
> Kayta
>
>     //// \\\
>    ////-@@\\\
>   ((((   7 )))
>    (((  <> ))))
>       )   ((((((
> /----\   /---\))
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 23:36:47 2002
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:23:14 -0400
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Hi, All. This topic came up before, and the term "Cross-cloth" was mentioned in
relation to headgear, yet in the references I have seen, the crosscloth was the
piece of apparel that was worn, partlet-like, across the bodice, and
occasionally tucked into the belt or apron. It was sometimes edged with lace,
and was, for a while over here in the US 17th Cent. reenactment community,
referred to as a fichue, which I believe is a later term for a similar clothing
item. You can see crosscloths in Hollars illos. John Taylor in his poem "In
Praise of the Needle" (1631), on line 43 mentions crosscloths with aprons,
handerkerchiefs and falls (falling bands), and mentions "Kerchiefes, Quoyfes,
Chin-Clowtes or marry-Muffes" on a previous line. ("In Praise of the Needle;
John Taylor's Poem of 1631" with annotations, by Kathleen Epstein Curious Works
Press 1995 ISBN 0-9633331-6-X) One of the major problems with our costuming
language is that modern costume historians, especially in the previous century,
have given us a list of words that we are now beginning to question the sources
for. I am curious as to where the source for the use of the word crosscloth
referring to a piece of headgear comes from. If anyone could point me to a
primary source such as the one mentioned above, I would appreciate it. Thanks,
Mike T.



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Oct 26 23:46:54 2002
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HI Mike,

Funny you should mention them.  I've found references to them in some 16th 
century English wills but, the definition I had was they appear to be 
another name for forehead cloths.  Off the top of my head I don't remember 
where I found the reference but you might want to try either Arnold or the OED.

Cheers,
Danielle

At 11:23 PM 10/26/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi, All. This topic came up before, and the term "Cross-cloth" was 
>mentioned in
>relation to headgear, yet in the references I have seen, the crosscloth 
>was the
>piece of apparel that was worn, partlet-like, across the bodice, and
>occasionally tucked into the belt or apron. It was sometimes edged with lace,
>and was, for a while over here in the US 17th Cent. reenactment community,
>referred to as a fichue, which I believe is a later term for a similar 
>clothing
>item. You can see crosscloths in Hollars illos. John Taylor in his poem "In
>Praise of the Needle" (1631), on line 43 mentions crosscloths with aprons,
>handerkerchiefs and falls (falling bands), and mentions "Kerchiefes, Quoyfes,
>Chin-Clowtes or marry-Muffes" on a previous line. ("In Praise of the Needle;
>John Taylor's Poem of 1631" with annotations, by Kathleen Epstein Curious 
>Works
>Press 1995 ISBN 0-9633331-6-X) One of the major problems with our costuming
>language is that modern costume historians, especially in the previous 
>century,
>have given us a list of words that we are now beginning to question the 
>sources
>for. I am curious as to where the source for the use of the word crosscloth
>referring to a piece of headgear comes from. If anyone could point me to a
>primary source such as the one mentioned above, I would appreciate it. Thanks,
>Mike T.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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Subject: [h-cost] How did they live?????
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:31:55 -0400
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I have been purchasing up beauty school textbooks, to find out how to make
period hairstyles, hair care, products, grooming, makeup, and wig-making.
In a 1911 textbook, I came across recipes for personal care.  Some are for
sunburns, freckle fading, black heads, etc.  I was sitting in our
pediatrician's office yesterday and showed her some of the recipes.
Needless to say she was shocked too, like me, and wondered how these women
lived.  Some of the principle ingredients, mercury, lead, petroleum
(kerosene), Vaseline, and lard.

I knew lead paint or powder was used in the Elizabethan period but I was
stunned that it was used this late in history for facial products.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume 
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:28:25 -0500 (CDT)
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On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote:

> I have been purchasing up beauty school textbooks, to find out how to make
> period hairstyles, hair care, products, grooming, makeup, and wig-making.
> In a 1911 textbook, I came across recipes for personal care.  Some are for
> sunburns, freckle fading, black heads, etc.  I was sitting in our
> pediatrician's office yesterday and showed her some of the recipes.
> Needless to say she was shocked too, like me, and wondered how these women
> lived.  Some of the principle ingredients, mercury, lead, petroleum
> (kerosene), Vaseline, and lard.
> 
> I knew lead paint or powder was used in the Elizabethan period but I was
> stunned that it was used this late in history for facial products.

But after enough of that, you wouldn't have much problem with blackheads,
right?

Seriously ... a lot of those toxins take a long time to work, particularly
if absorbed through the skin rather than internally. I'll bet enough of
these women died of natural causes or childbirth before lead poisoning or
mercury poisoning kicked in, so that the link would not be particularly
obvious.

Is there something wrong with Vaseline? I thought that was pretty inert.

--Robin

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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] How did they live?????
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At 12:28 AM 10/27/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote:



> > Needless to say she was shocked too, like me, and wondered how these women
> > lived.  Some of the principle ingredients, mercury, lead, petroleum
> > (kerosene), Vaseline, and lard.
> >
> > I knew lead paint or powder was used in the Elizabethan period but I was
> > stunned that it was used this late in history for facial products.



>Is there something wrong with Vaseline? I thought that was pretty inert.
>
>--Robin

It don't know but when I was in the military and working in the hazardous 
materials depot the range of things kept there was astonishing.  Besides 
the obvious, they also kept Vaseline, lip balm, and sunscreen.  No one 
could tell me why....

Cheers,
Danielle

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Oct 27 09:57:52 2002
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 06:48:04 -0800
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I believe that vaseline, etc are pretty much inert.  The reason that you 
would put them in a hazardous materials storage area is that they are 
petroleum based and any thing that is petroleum based is probably listed as 
requiring that kind of handling.  While it may not be hazardous to you, it 
is a different thing in the soil and water where it can affect much smaller 
organisms.  just an explanation from a water quality wog

At 01:44 AM 10/27/2002 -0500, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote:
>At 12:28 AM 10/27/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>>On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote:
>
>
>
>> > Needless to say she was shocked too, like me, and wondered how these women
>> > lived.  Some of the principle ingredients, mercury, lead, petroleum
>> > (kerosene), Vaseline, and lard.
>> >
>> > I knew lead paint or powder was used in the Elizabethan period but I was
>> > stunned that it was used this late in history for facial products.
>
>
>
>>Is there something wrong with Vaseline? I thought that was pretty inert.
>>
>>--Robin
>
>It don't know but when I was in the military and working in the hazardous 
>materials depot the range of things kept there was astonishing.  Besides 
>the obvious, they also kept Vaseline, lip balm, and sunscreen.  No one 
>could tell me why....
>
>Cheers,
>Danielle
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:05:10 -0500
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petroleum by-products. You should see the absurd MSW sheets out 
on common products.
margali

Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote:


> It don't know but when I was in the military and working in the 
> hazardous materials depot the range of things kept there was 
> astonishing.  Besides the obvious, they also kept Vaseline, lip balm, 
> and sunscreen.  No one could tell me why....
> 
> Cheers,
> Danielle



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> I have been purchasing up beauty school textbooks, to find out how to
> make period hairstyles, hair care, products, grooming, makeup, and
> wig-making. In a 1911 textbook, I came across recipes for personal
> care.  Some are for sunburns, freckle fading, black heads, etc.  I was
> sitting in our pediatrician's office yesterday and showed her some of
> the recipes. Needless to say she was shocked too, like me, and
> wondered how these women lived.  Some of the principle ingredients,
> mercury, lead, petroleum (kerosene), Vaseline, and lard.

Well, except for the Vaseline and lard, they often *didn't* live. 
They had all sorts of problems with cancers, liver failure, kidney 
failure, skin problems (which then necessitated *more* skin 
products), etc. Heavy metal poisoning and cancers were amazingly 
common. (You just have to read the medical books of the time to find 
this out. And you have to be able to "translate" the medical lingo of 
the time and recognize the symptoms of these diseases to be able to 
recognize modern problems in their terms.)

Kat Russell


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Oct 27 11:03:25 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Cross cloths
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Yes Mike, I thought the cross cloth was similar to a fichu. (I was hoping it 
was an item worn by breast feeding women.) Pat Poppy said that the cross 
cloth was a forehead cloth. I have numerous references to cross cloths from 
probate inventories in both the Essex and Hampshire records offices. I keep 
meaning to type them up. Pat is on this list I think. There was a discussion 
on the ECWS discussion forum about the term.
Anne Buck, 'Clothes and the Child' refers to cross clothes too.
I think I'll check my references and see if I can find a list which has both 
forehead cloth and cross cloth in the same inventory.
regards
Joy

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I can tell you that a lot of products people put on their hair is extremely
flammable.  I never realized this until working with my daughter's massive
curly hair and trying to find products that would tame it.  Look at the
labels... many say that they are flammable.  I choose to not use the
products because she wanted to where here hair down and it would bounce
everywhere.  She was so little and I was scared she would pass a stove and
her hair would go poof!!!

I remember one witness from the Bali incident last week describing the
women's hair on fire.  Hairspray on hair makes it extremely flammable.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Robin,

Vaseline has a petroleum base.  I remember when I was a kid the commercials
on TV called Vaseline "petroleum jelly."

My mom is a depression era baby said *back then* when a product said that it
contained petroleum, it was kerosene.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] How did they live?????
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Here are *some* of the ingredients recipes from the Manual of Beauty Culture
1911:

Freckles:
Jamaica rum
lemon juice
glycerine

Blackheads:
bismuth sub-nitrate
ammoniated mercury
ichthyol
OR
acetic acid
peroxide of hydrogen
lanoline
vaseline

Sunburn:
mercury
lead
water
OR
mercury
acetic acid
water

Depilatory:
barium sulphide
powdered starch
orris root

Acne:
lead
water
zinc oxide
tincture of benzoin
benzoated lard

Corn Salve
beeswax
sweet oil
turpentine

Chillblains
petroleum
aqua ammonia
brandy

Ulcers (open wounds) and Chillblains
Spirits of rosemary
laudanum
lead water

There are several more recipes.  I only sent you all a few of them.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] How did they live?????
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On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote:

> Vaseline has a petroleum base.  I remember when I was a kid the
> commercials on TV called Vaseline "petroleum jelly."

Yes, it's still called that -- Vaseline is a brand name for petroleum
jelly. But I don't believe it's harmful to people. Heck, we still put it
on babies. And on lips.

--Robin

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From: "Land of Oz" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] How did they live?????
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> Vaseline is a brand name for petroleum
> jelly. But I don't believe it's harmful to people. Heck, we still put it
> on babies. And on lips.
>

right, in small quantities.

Can you imagine the mess and environmental issues if industrial/military
sized containers were broken/melted/spilled, etc?

On a much more costume related note: would anyone like to comment on the
Dover Publication of Sears Catalog Fashion illustrations by decade?  Any
good?

Denise
landofoz@netins.net

Denise

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Oct 27 13:16:32 2002
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Petroleum Jelly is a petroleum by product. It is a sealant eg seals chapped
lips, battery terminals from the damp etc etc

Is isn't flammable.

Mel


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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Leather Doublet
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> 
> So, do you have the raw edges of the binding showing, or do you fold them
> under? If folded under, then that's 4 layers from the binding (2 each side
> folded over) and 2 from the garment?
> 
> **********************
> Rebecca Schmitt
> aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
> Bristol,
> BRF FOF


The only time I fold under the leather binding is if it is a VERY light weight, like 
1.5oz. and then only rarely.  It creates way to much bulk to do this with a thick piece of 
leather.
Leather will not fray, so it would be like taking a piece of twill tape or ribbon and 
using that as binding.  You simply lay it on the piece and sew.  I then trim the leather 
closely to the line of stitching if it was topstitched (since machine sewing can stretch 
the leather I give myself that extra 1/4" for the Ooops factor)
  If it was hand stitched, then no trimming would be necessary since it was cut to the 
exact dimension to begin with.  If the leather is dyed a color, and the dye did not 
penetrate to the center of the skin, then I usually find a permanent marker and touch up 
the cut edge of the leather binding to hide the imperfections.
If done neatly (sewing well, touching up well) then having the raw edge of the leather 
binding is acceptable.
-- 
Linda Thompson

Visit www.seams-to-be.com
where Attitude is Everything

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Oct 27 14:17:14 2002
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To: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] How did they live?????
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This one isn't so bad:

> Blackheads:
> acetic acid
> peroxide of hydrogen
> lanoline
> vaseline

Acetic acid is just vinegar, and most modern acne medications use hydrogen
peroxide.


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Oct 27 15:06:58 2002
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Great - thanks!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda J. Thompson" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 12:33 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Leather Doublet


> >
> > So, do you have the raw edges of the binding showing, or do you fold
them
> > under? If folded under, then that's 4 layers from the binding (2 each
side
> > folded over) and 2 from the garment?
> >
> > **********************
> > Rebecca Schmitt
> > aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
> > Bristol,
> > BRF FOF
>
>
> The only time I fold under the leather binding is if it is a VERY light
weight, like
> 1.5oz. and then only rarely.  It creates way to much bulk to do this with
a thick piece of
> leather.
> Leather will not fray, so it would be like taking a piece of twill tape or
ribbon and
> using that as binding.  You simply lay it on the piece and sew.  I then
trim the leather
> closely to the line of stitching if it was topstitched (since machine
sewing can stretch
> the leather I give myself that extra 1/4" for the Ooops factor)
>   If it was hand stitched, then no trimming would be necessary since it
was cut to the
> exact dimension to begin with.  If the leather is dyed a color, and the
dye did not
> penetrate to the center of the skin, then I usually find a permanent
marker and touch up
> the cut edge of the leather binding to hide the imperfections.
> If done neatly (sewing well, touching up well) then having the raw edge of
the leather
> binding is acceptable.
> --
> Linda Thompson
>
> Visit www.seams-to-be.com
> where Attitude is Everything
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Subject: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair
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A&E Sunday (today) 5-7:00 PM

Uncut: The True Story of Hair
120 min.
Bo Derek narrates a fast-paced and campy history of hair as a fashion,
cultural and political statement.
The documentary, which relies on photo-and-video montages and comments from
celebrities and stylists, focuses mainly on women. There is, however, a
brief examination of how Elvis Presley and the Beatles spawned a revolution
in men's styles in the 1950s and '60s. There's also a segment on
African-American hair that recalls the afro as a symbol of “black power”
rather than fashion. Other topics include “rock hair,” hair-care products
and medieval barber-surgeons. Among those commenting are Patti LaBelle, Pam
Grier, Bob Mackie, Kate Pierson (the B-52s), Dolly Parton and Deborah Harry.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: [h-cost] Re: VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair
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That is 5-7:00 PM East Coast time.  Check www.tvguide.com for what time it
comes on in your area.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "h-costume" 
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 3:59 PM
Subject: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair


> A&E Sunday (today) 5-7:00 PM
>
> Uncut: The True Story of Hair
> 120 min.
> Bo Derek narrates a fast-paced and campy history of hair as a fashion,
> cultural and political statement.
> The documentary, which relies on photo-and-video montages and comments
from
> celebrities and stylists, focuses mainly on women. There is, however, a
> brief examination of how Elvis Presley and the Beatles spawned a
revolution
> in men's styles in the 1950s and '60s. There's also a segment on
> African-American hair that recalls the afro as a symbol of “black power”
> rather than fashion. Other topics include “rock hair,” hair-care products
> and medieval barber-surgeons. Among those commenting are Patti LaBelle,
Pam
> Grier, Bob Mackie, Kate Pierson (the B-52s), Dolly Parton and Deborah
Harry.
>
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
>


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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] How did they live?????
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 13:08:54 -0800
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>I have been purchasing up beauty school textbooks, to find out how to make
>period hairstyles, hair care, products, grooming, makeup, and wig-making.
>In a 1911 textbook, I came across recipes for personal care.  Some are for
>sunburns, freckle fading, black heads, etc.  I was sitting in our
>pediatrician's office yesterday and showed her some of the recipes.
>Needless to say she was shocked too, like me, and wondered how these women
>lived.  Some of the principle ingredients, mercury, lead, petroleum
>(kerosene), Vaseline, and lard.
>
>I knew lead paint or powder was used in the Elizabethan period but I was
>stunned that it was used this late in history for facial products.

My guess is that not everyone used that stuff, and wasn't, therefore, 
subject to the toxic side-effects.

I guess I just don't come from a family of big-time makeup wearers.  I 
don't remember anyone in my family who wore much makeup at all.  And they 
were relatively healthy, so they wouldn't have had much need for home 
remedies.  And no home remedies have come down thru the family either, 
except hot lemonade with honey, for sore throats, or cold compresses (wet 
towel around the neck) for the same.  I inherited a metal hot water bottle, 
in a flannel bag, from someone in the family (sorry - that's as h-costumey 
as I can get here).

Kayta

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From: "Joy Shillaker" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Cross cloths
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Henry Best in 1642 (The Farming and Memorandum Book of Henry Best, pages 
175-176) Shorte Rememberances for Buying All sorts of Linnen, "...14d or 15d 
the yard, being in breadth yard and a half quarter, which our mayd servants 
usually buy for holyday aprons, crosse cloths, neck cloths." And later in 
the same piece referring to holland or slezy holland..."It is a strong cloth 
and much used for men's bands, gentle womans handkerchers and cross cloathes 
and half shirts etc."
Best also mentions 'handkerchers for the neck.

And from Chelmsford


Item
Reference Code  T/A 418/103/55
Scope and Content Indictment of William Steward labourer and Elizabeth 
Steward spinster, both of Theydon Grnon, there about 11 p.m. broke into the 
house of Nicholas Wright clerk, and stole a cloak worth£3., "a kertle" 
(ventralem) worth 5s., a doublet worth 20s., a pair of hose worth 10s., a 
woman's gown worth 10s., a cloak worth 6s.8d., belonging to the said 
Nicholas Wright, a woman's gown worth£5.10s., " petty coate" 9tunicam) worth 
50s., a pair of "stockinges" worth 4s., a pair of "garters" worth 5s., two 
"wastcoates" (indusia) worth 5s., two aporns worth 3s., a waistcoat worth 
18d., "a ruff band" worth 2s., three aprons (ventrales) worth 10s., a pair 
of shoes worth 2s., two "coifes" (crinalem) worth 8d., two "crosse clothes" 
(reticules) wroth 8d., two "strips" of lsilk worth 6d., foru "neck clothes" 
worth 12d., two pairs of "cuffs" worth 8d., belonging to Robert Odam gent., 
two hats worth 12d. and a cloak worth 5s., belonging to Sidrac Bennett. 
William in gaol in Surrey. Elizabeth pleads not guilty; acquitted. Witness. 
Sidrake Bennett. [ASS 35/70/1/55]
Accumilation Dates 20 April 1627
Acquisition Date From 1627
Acquisition Date To 1627

Cross cloths are again mentioned as different to neck cloths.

Hope this is helpful
regards
Joy


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> On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote:
> 
> > Vaseline has a petroleum base.  I remember when I was a kid the
> > commercials on TV called Vaseline "petroleum jelly."
> 
> Yes, it's still called that -- Vaseline is a brand name for petroleum
> jelly. But I don't believe it's harmful to people. Heck, we still put
> it on babies. And on lips.
> --Robin

And unlike "Bag Balm", pediatricians are told that it's ok to 
recommend petroleum jelly for little bottoms (and other places). (We 
had to stop recommending Bag Balm a few years back because of some 
sort of problem which they didn't explain other than to say "it is 
not appropriate to use the product for infant skin problems." I had 
the feeling it was the lack of FDA approval for some component of the 
stuff.)

Petroleum jelly is safe enough to use for the mouth and lips. That's 
pretty safe!

Kat Russell


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> This one isn't so bad:
> 
> > Blackheads:
> > acetic acid
> > peroxide of hydrogen
> > lanoline
> > vaseline
> 
> Acetic acid is just vinegar, and most modern acne medications use
> hydrogen peroxide.

While this is a safe recipe, it is benzoyl peroxide, not hydrogen 
peroxide which is the acne medicine. They are completely different 
types of ingredients (even if they share a part of their name. It's 
kind of like the difference between acetic acid/vinegar and sulfuric 
acid. Both are acids but one is a food substance and the other is a 
highly dangerous substance. They just share the "acid" part of the 
name.) Benzoyl peroxide is more closely related to some types of 
sunscreens (those containing PABA.)

Hydrogen peroxide is used for bleaching hair, disinfecting mouths 
(especially in people with gum disease) and general disinfecting. It 
kills bacteria by giving it oxygen poisoning (as many of the bacteria 
are not fond of oxygen, unlike us.) When you see it start to foam, it 
is converting from hydrogen peroxide to water and oxygen (by way of 
free radicals.)

It probably works by bleaching out the top of the blackhead (as 
opposed to dissolving or otherwise removing it.)

Kat Russell


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From: "Megan M." 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair
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Bummer.  I just got the email and only caught the last 20 minutes.  Anyone
tape it?  Willing to share?
-Megan

Penny wrote:
Subject: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair


A&E Sunday (today) 5-7:00 PM

Uncut: The True Story of Hair
120 min.
Bo Derek narrates a fast-paced and campy history of hair as a fashion,
cultural and political statement.
The documentary, which relies on photo-and-video montages and comments from
celebrities and stylists, focuses mainly on women. There is, however, a
brief examination of how Elvis Presley and the Beatles spawned a revolution
in men's styles in the 1950s and '60s. There's also a segment on
African-American hair that recalls the afro as a symbol of “black power”
rather than fashion. Other topics include “rock hair,” hair-care products
and medieval barber-surgeons. Among those commenting are Patti LaBelle, Pam
Grier, Bob Mackie, Kate Pierson (the B-52s), Dolly Parton and Deborah Harry.


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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:09:21 -0500
Status: RO

I taped it but have all the commercials in it.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Megan M." 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair


> Bummer.  I just got the email and only caught the last 20 minutes.  Anyone
> tape it?  Willing to share?
> -Megan
>
> Penny wrote:
> Subject: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair
>
>
> A&E Sunday (today) 5-7:00 PM
>
> Uncut: The True Story of Hair
> 120 min.
> Bo Derek narrates a fast-paced and campy history of hair as a fashion,
> cultural and political statement.
> The documentary, which relies on photo-and-video montages and comments
from
> celebrities and stylists, focuses mainly on women. There is, however, a
> brief examination of how Elvis Presley and the Beatles spawned a
revolution
> in men's styles in the 1950s and '60s. There's also a segment on
> African-American hair that recalls the afro as a symbol of "black power"
> rather than fashion. Other topics include "rock hair," hair-care products
> and medieval barber-surgeons. Among those commenting are Patti LaBelle,
Pam
> Grier, Bob Mackie, Kate Pierson (the B-52s), Dolly Parton and Deborah
Harry.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Oct 27 19:44:27 2002
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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I was looking for the museum mention in the show, Museum of Hair.  I found
their website at http://www.hairshow.biz/museum.htm .  But I also found an
unusual site at http://www.chez-galip.com/hair-museum1.htm... read about
this one!!!!!!!!  Some people collect the strangest things!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Oct 27 21:02:22 2002
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From: "Megan M." 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair
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Are you willing to send me a copy to view?  I can send it back after I see
it, to avoid that copywrite/bootleg issue.
-Megan

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Penny Ladnier
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:09 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair


I taped it but have all the commercials in it.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Megan M." 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair


> Bummer.  I just got the email and only caught the last 20 minutes.  Anyone
> tape it?  Willing to share?
> -Megan
>
> Penny wrote:
> Subject: [h-cost] VCR ALERT: 20th Century Hair
>
>
> A&E Sunday (today) 5-7:00 PM
>
> Uncut: The True Story of Hair
> 120 min.
> Bo Derek narrates a fast-paced and campy history of hair as a fashion,
> cultural and political statement.
> The documentary, which relies on photo-and-video montages and comments
from
> celebrities and stylists, focuses mainly on women. There is, however, a
> brief examination of how Elvis Presley and the Beatles spawned a
revolution
> in men's styles in the 1950s and '60s. There's also a segment on
> African-American hair that recalls the afro as a symbol of "black power"
> rather than fashion. Other topics include "rock hair," hair-care products
> and medieval barber-surgeons. Among those commenting are Patti LaBelle,
Pam
> Grier, Bob Mackie, Kate Pierson (the B-52s), Dolly Parton and Deborah
Harry.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Oct 27 21:37:26 2002
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> From: "Penny Ladnier" 
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How did they live?????

> Blackheads:
> acetic acid
> peroxide of hydrogen
> lanoline
> vaseline

Two are inert ingredients with mild soothing and/or protecting qualities, one is astringent,
and one is used to clear up blemishes to this day.
Imagine that.

Actually, if you want to be really horrified, check out 19th century food additives,
especially colorings.
Heavy metal salts have lovely colors.

Ann in CT


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Oct 27 23:08:39 2002
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I'm planning a series of articles for my Needleworkers Guild's 
newsletter, titled "Is This Stitch Period?" (i.e. is it reasonably 
well known and used before 1600)

What does everyone think are the stitches people ask this question 
about the most often?

I should hasten to add that we _do_ have cross stitch in the article 
lineup already, and we have just this month done an article on 
"bargello" -- these being the two I have heard asked about the most. 
What else should we be including?

I'm planning the next few issues right now, so all ideas are welcome. TIA --
-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan blackwork shift
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I am progressing slowly on my shift using Drea's smock
generator.  How do I finish the neck edges.  I am
intending to embroider around the square neck opening
with a geometric blackwork design and then cut the
neck opening so I can fudge the size to match up with
the embroidery, thus getting smooth corners on the
embroidery without having to adjust the motif size and
placement.  Would the neck opening edges be bound with
bias strips, straight strips or faced to the inside,
faced to the outside with embroidery on the facings,
roll hemmed, whipped with a frill or what?  If I faced
the neck opening with a little drawn thread work where
I stitch the facing down I would get all the
unfinished edges covered and the embroidery would have
some support behind it.  The unknown girl/Helena
Snakenborg portrait doesn't seem to have a frill on
the shift that shows just above the gown.  Am I being
inaccurate to have the blackwork all the way around
the square neckline and it would be better to just
work a band across the front and back neck where it
might show and not do the sides over the shoulders?
     Also looking at the Italian shift in Cut My
Cote...Is that on-line anywhere?  Are the spot motifs
in the line drawing embroidered on or are they woven
into the fabric?  If embroidered then are they colored
or white on white?  I'm getting ready to start my cold
weather projects and that tends to be embroidery where
I can sit under a quilt and catch up on all my telly. 
I may have central heat but this is a rather old
farmhouse so I like to sit in one place as opposed to
sit at the sewing machine and work on the later period
stuff.  (Sewing machine work is for the front porch
during the summer when I appreciate the breeze.)
                              Cassandra (who is just
getting woke up to start the day)

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Oct 28 00:04:22 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] period stitches for Chris
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:05:17 -0800 (PST)
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As I am new to pre-19th century clothing and have been
following all the stitch discussions here you might
consider an article on plain sewing for the visible
hand-work that should be done by hand as it shows from
the outside of a garment.  There appears to be a
difference in the stitches used for linen and those
used for wool.  Recently here on h-costume someone
pointed out that a flat-felled seam was stitched
differently then as now.  The older method more like
hemming two edges to each other as opposed to
stitching wrong side together and then trimming one
edge and folding the remaining edge over and
topstitching down.  I just posted a question about
edge finishing necklines when this digest came
through.  Since I am very new to medieval and
Elizabethan sewing I would love to see articles with
good drawings of the appropriate hand stitches with
explicit advice on when to use which stitches.  How
about an article on adding trim to necklines and
sleeve edges?  How to get trims to lie flat depending
on the shape of the neckline.  How to figure repeats
to get Celtic knotwork or blackwork designs to fit
neatly and turn corners on square necklines without
using half- or quarter-motifs.  Where on which
garments would embroidery be appropriate.  Someone
mentioned that trimming the bottom of a lady's gown
would be impractical and was probably not done in
reality as the edges would get bedraggled.  What about
the embroidey or trimmings on the bottom of the cors
of a bliaut?
      You could do an article on the meanings of
different flowers when used in embroidery or give
drawings (for those of us that cannot draw at all)
with stitch diagrams suitable for the novice to add a
little embroidery to a gown.  What about something on
how to trim with fur?  I think I remember seeing
sideless surcoats with fur trimming.
      As you can see I have lots of embroidery and
needlework questions, at least 10 questions for every
project I intend to do and even more questions about
the paintings and drawings I see but can't understand
well enough to figure out what questions to ask. 
Granted, I'm new enough to this time period that your
guild may be more interested in more advanced projects
and information while I'm still figuring out the
basics.  And the more I do learn the less I feel I
know.  My period of choice had sewing machines so I'm
still learning the basic handsewing but I wish you
good hunting on your quest for ideas.  :)
                                Cassandra 

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan blackwork shift
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 --- Cascio Michael  wrote: 
> I am progressing slowly on my shift using Drea's
> smock
> generator.  How do I finish the neck edges.  I am
> intending to embroider around the square neck
> opening

I haven't made the square neck opening style of
chemise yet, so unfortunately I can't help with that
part of your question....

> Also looking at the Italian shift in Cut My
> Cote...Is that on-line anywhere?

A pic of the chemise itself isn't online as far as I'm
aware, but I do have the V&A's description of it
online on my page on Italian camicias...


(about half way down) If that link doesn't work go to


and hit the "Extant Camicias" link.

>  Are the spot
> motifs
> in the line drawing embroidered on or are they woven
> into the fabric?  If embroidered then are they
> colored
> or white on white?

Polychrome embroidery: "embroidered with brightly
coloured silks partly in satin stitch, and applied
yellow silk cord"...."Vertical pattern all round of
detached blossoms arranged in eight double rows. Close
repeating rows of floral sprigs cover the sleeves."



Bella



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Status: RO

Hi. There is a chapter on Monks and Nuns clothing in the recent book "Medieval
Manner of Dress" by Else Marie Gutarp Gotlands Fornsals forlag Visby 2001 ISBN
91-88036-43-X. I got my copy through a member of the list, Fred Struthers. I
don't remember his e-mail addy offhand. Fred, are you out there?  Mike T.

N Kipar wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I tried an internet (google) search as well as searching the h-cost archives,
> but I didn't really come up with much. I am looking for information plus, if
> possible, images of nuns' habit before 1600. I know it's very vague, but
> anything will do, no matter which period.
> It'd be greatly appreciated!
>
> Nicole
>

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Hi. Danielle, I checked the Arnold books, but the clothing reference seems to be
too late for her work. I'll try the OED. BTW, Kathleen Epstein in her editing of
Taylor's poem defines crosscloths as those worn across the breast. If she is out
there, I would like to hear her thoughts.  Cheers, Mike T.



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From: Robin Netherton 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] History of nuns' dress? Help!
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On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, leigh tartaglio wrote:

> Hi. There is a chapter on Monks and Nuns clothing in the recent book
> "Medieval Manner of Dress" by Else Marie Gutarp Gotlands Fornsals
> forlag Visby 2001 ISBN 91-88036-43-X. I got my copy through a member
> of the list, Fred Struthers. I don't remember his e-mail addy offhand.
> Fred, are you out there?  Mike T.

Fred Struthers has it? I got my copy from the American translator (Desiree
Koslin) some time ago, and after I mentioned it on this list back in June
lots of people asked me where to find it. I kicked the question back to
Desiree, and when she finally got back to me, she said she didn't know of
any U.S. distributor yet (she asked me if I wanted to be one!). If
Struthers does have it, I've got a long list of people who want it.

For those who are interested, my comments on the book are in a post dated
June 20, 2002, with the subject line of "Scandinavian clothing, was
Women's headgear, medieval Norway?" It should be easy enough to find in
the archives.

--Robin




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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre-1600 stitches?
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 --- Chris Laning  wrote: > I'm planning a series of articles
for my Needleworkers Guild's 
> newsletter, titled "Is This Stitch Period?" (i.e. is it reasonably 
> well known and used before 1600)
> 
> What does everyone think are the stitches people ask this question 
> about the most often?

Any of these fancy bubbly ones like French knots (sorry don't know any other
terms/names in English). I ALWAYS get asked about French knots when I sit and
do my Anglo-Saxon embroidery.

Also, are you going to add those that are well documented? Liek tailor's
stitch, buttonhole stitch, split stitch, stem stitch, etc.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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IIRC, the Cunnington 17th century book refers to a forehead cloth or cross-cloth as a triangular piece worn in conjunction with the early style of coif (but doesn't give any further explanation). Of course, later researchers may have formed different ideas. I think forehead cloths are ignored by reenactors because no-one quite knows how to wear them.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Susan and I have completed another section of The Gallery's  "A Year in
Fashion: 1920s" series of  websites.
http://www.costumegallery.com/1923/Uniforms/ This site includes Band
Uniforms and Accessories from 1923.  This is an entire catalog from a
company, D. Klein from Philadelphia that had been in business since 1854.
The site is large, so please take your time to look at the various
categories of band uniforms, regular band, military, Shriners, band
directors, and drum majors.  We also have three sections of band uniform
accessories: caps & hats, braids, & misc. accessories.

Even if band uniforms really isn't your thing, all the different styles are
really interesting.

I hope you enjoy the site!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:55:24 -0700
Status: RO

Bella, thanks for the great pics!
Question about the second one (from the Met).  Any idea on how the
neckline is finished? It *looks* like it just might be a more
gathered/higher version of the Venetian camicias.
I know you specialize primarily in Venetian costume, but you might know
anyways...I'm looking for sources of good mid-century (16th) Italian
women's clothing.  After I get my blackworked shift done (yeah, Robin,
I'm still working on it), I'm going to need a dress to wear it with! The
only portrait I've seen that has something similar in it has a
distinctly unflattering, satin dress (one of those dresses that even on
the wearer in the portrait looks a size or two too small).  My usual
sources (so far) have come up pretty dry.  Everything either seems to be
very renaissance-y (lots of Florentine), or later-16th c.  I'm looking
for mid-century.
--sue

Bella wrote:
> 
> A pic of the chemise itself isn't online as far as I'm
> aware, but I do have the V&A's description of it
> online on my page on Italian camicias...
> 
> 
> (about half way down) If that link doesn't work go to
> 
> 
> and hit the "Extant Camicias" link.
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cross cloths
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:50:23 +0000
Status: RO

What's a crosse cloth?

Arlys

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:55:38 +0000 "Joy Shillaker"
 writes:
> 
> Henry Best in 1642 (The Farming and Memorandum Book of Henry Best, 
> pages 
> 175-176) Shorte Rememberances for Buying All sorts of Linnen, 
> "...14d or 15d 
> the yard, being in breadth yard and a half quarter, which our mayd 
> servants 
> usually buy for holyday aprons, crosse cloths, neck cloths." And 
> later in 
> the same piece referring to holland or slezy holland..."It is a 
> strong cloth 
> and much used for men's bands, gentle womans handkerchers and cross 
> cloathes 
> and half shirts etc."
> Best also mentions 'handkerchers for the neck.
> 
> And from Chelmsford
> 
> 
> Item
> Reference Code  T/A 418/103/55
> Scope and Content Indictment of William Steward labourer and 
> Elizabeth 
> Steward spinster, both of Theydon Grnon, there about 11 p.m. broke 
> into the 
> house of Nicholas Wright clerk, and stole a cloak worth£3., "a 
> kertle" 
> (ventralem) worth 5s., a doublet worth 20s., a pair of hose worth 
> 10s., a 
> woman's gown worth 10s., a cloak worth 6s.8d., belonging to the said 
> 
> Nicholas Wright, a woman's gown worth£5.10s., " petty coate" 
> 9tunicam) worth 
> 50s., a pair of "stockinges" worth 4s., a pair of "garters" worth 
> 5s., two 
> "wastcoates" (indusia) worth 5s., two aporns worth 3s., a waistcoat 
> worth 
> 18d., "a ruff band" worth 2s., three aprons (ventrales) worth 10s., 
> a pair 
> of shoes worth 2s., two "coifes" (crinalem) worth 8d., two "crosse 
> clothes" 
> (reticules) wroth 8d., two "strips" of lsilk worth 6d., foru "neck 
> clothes" 
> worth 12d., two pairs of "cuffs" worth 8d., belonging to Robert Odam 
> gent., 
> two hats worth 12d. and a cloak worth 5s., belonging to Sidrac 
> Bennett. 
> William in gaol in Surrey. Elizabeth pleads not guilty; acquitted. 
> Witness. 
> Sidrake Bennett. [ASS 35/70/1/55]
> Accumilation Dates 20 April 1627
> Acquisition Date From 1627
> Acquisition Date To 1627
> 
> Cross cloths are again mentioned as different to neck cloths.
> 
> Hope this is helpful
> regards
> Joy
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:23:49 +0000
Status: RO

Greetings all.

Chris, as far as my own modest researches into the area have been able to
tell, "bargello" is actually a fairly modern term for the stitch, term
being post-1700. It was called Florentine before 1600. Other names for
similar-type stitches are flame point, Hungarian stitch, and Irish
stitch. Yes? No?

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:05:50 -0700 Chris Laning  writes:
> I'm planning a series of articles for my Needleworkers Guild's 
> newsletter, titled "Is This Stitch Period?" (i.e. is it reasonably 
> well known and used before 1600)
> 
> What does everyone think are the stitches people ask this question 
> about the most often?

Blackwork, split stitch, Bayeux Tapestry stitch (the name of which is
completely escaping me at the moment), blanket stitch, single and double
running. Or nue--style or stitch?

Might anyone know--someone I talked to in our area says it is impossible
to do or nue properly because the gold materials or passable substitutes
for it are not available anymore. Being completely ignorant in this area,
I would like to know what, if anything, can be used. It sounds
wonderfully intriguing to learn. Any good sources on it?
 
> I should hasten to add that we _do_ have cross stitch in the article 
> lineup already, and we have just this month done an article on 
> "bargello" -- these being the two I have heard asked about the most. 

Thank you for your help,

Arlys, novice stitcher in An Tir
 


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Subject: [h-cost] Bishop Bob online
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I've received permission to post online Nancy Spies' photos of "Bishop Bob" --
the doll she created to demonstrate 13th-century ecclesiastical vestments and
the use of tablet-woven bands to trim them. 

They're in the photos section of the Paternosters group at Yahoo --
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/paternosters/lst?.dir=/&.src=gr&.view=t
(Click on "Bishop Bob")

I had the good fortune (along with several others on this list) to be at the
International Congress for Medieval
Studies in Kalamazoo, Michigan, in May 2001 when Nancy presented her paper on
brocaded
tablet-weaving. She had all the pattern bands she'd woven for the cover of her
book (Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance: 1000 years of Tablet
Woven Bands) on display at the front of the room, which we were all drooling
over because they're gorgeous :)

However she kept "Bishop Bob" out of sight until she needed him to illustrate
a few points. When you see the photos you'll understand why -- he's very cute.

And when she put up the slide of Bishop Bob in his shoes and stockings, we
just _howled_. 

Nancy can be contacted at  for more information about Bishop
Bob (and about ordering her books).

Enjoy!

(P.S. Feel free to forward this to other people who might be interested...)


____________________________________________________________
0  Chris Laning
|  
+  Davis, California
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan blackwork shift
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:20:35 +1100 (EST)
Status: RO

 --- Sue Clemenger  wrote: 

> Bella, thanks for the great pics!<<<<

You're welcome. :)

> Question about the second one (from the Met).  Any
> idea on how the
> neckline is finished? It *looks* like it just might
> be a more
> gathered/higher version of the Venetian camicias.

Without a much better pic it's difficult to say for
sure, but the construction looks about the same, only
that it seems to have the addition of a seperate bit
around the neckline - it looks like it may be smocked,
but it could also be simply an embroidered strip of
linen. How they could get it to curve so neatly I'm
not too sure about.

> I know you specialize primarily in Venetian costume,
> but you might know
> anyways...I'm looking for sources of good
> mid-century (16th) Italian
> women's clothing. 

Hmmm...I don't know if you're looking for inspiration
or patterns. For inspiration, you may have already
checked out my Venetian pages, but if not, here's the
mid 16th century gallery.....



If it's patterns you're after, I'm afraid I haven't
seen anything commercial that's really suitable for
mid 16thC - I drafted the bodice pattern for my mid
16th century and later stuff.


Bella

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop Bob online
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:25:32 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

Oh goodness, not only was this fascinatingly interesting, but I ADORE Bob :-)))

Nicole

 --- claning@igc.org wrote: > I've received permission to post online Nancy
Spies' photos of "Bishop Bob"
> --
> the doll she created to demonstrate 13th-century ecclesiastical vestments and
> the use of tablet-woven bands to trim them. 
> 
> They're in the photos section of the Paternosters group at Yahoo --
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/paternosters/lst?.dir=/&.src=gr&.view=t
> (Click on "Bishop Bob")
> 
> I had the good fortune (along with several others on this list) to be at the
> International Congress for Medieval
> Studies in Kalamazoo, Michigan, in May 2001 when Nancy presented her paper on
> brocaded
> tablet-weaving. She had all the pattern bands she'd woven for the cover of
> her
> book (Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance: 1000 years of Tablet
> Woven Bands) on display at the front of the room, which we were all drooling
> over because they're gorgeous :)
> 
> However she kept "Bishop Bob" out of sight until she needed him to illustrate
> a few points. When you see the photos you'll understand why -- he's very
> cute.
> 
> And when she put up the slide of Bishop Bob in his shoes and stockings, we
> just _howled_. 
> 
> Nancy can be contacted at  for more information about Bishop
> Bob (and about ordering her books).
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> (P.S. Feel free to forward this to other people who might be interested...)
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> 0  Chris Laning
> |  
> +  Davis, California
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:36:43 -0700
Status: RO

Ugh.  It's snowing.  The leaves aren't even all off the trees and it's
snowing, to the tune of 1-4 inches by morning.
Colder and darker months always seem to lead me to think of warmer
clothing, both in my mundane life, and with my historical costumes
(especially this year, as I no longer have use of my old cloak, which
developed too many holes to be useful as a cloak).  This, in turn, made
me think that it might be fun to discuss what our various times/cultures
of chosen interest used for cold weather gear (assuming that it was
needed!). I've been looking for medieval ideas, being in the SCA, but
most of what I've been finding in my various illustrated books, books of
hours, etc., are men in cloaks, men in mantles, etc.  Women seem to add
a hood/cowl combination, but I'm not seeing cloaks. Rarely, there's a
ceremonial cloak/mantle, and sometimes something that's probably part of
a habit (drapey cloak things on nuns, for instance).  It's
interesting--in the depictions of winter activities, they aren't wearing
as little clothing as during haying/harvest (no skirts hiked up, for
instance), but they don't seem to be wearing tons more...maybe they just
added a layer? 
What would the personas/characters of the rest of you have worn?
--sue, curious
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From: Drea Leed 
To: "h-costume@indra.com" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely topic
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:43:05 -0500 (EST)
Status: RO

Let's see...my persona (later 16th c. English/Flemish) would have worn her
normal duds (shift, either a petticoat bodies or a corset & petticoat
skirt, gown with sleeves) and add to that a heavy jacket over the gown.
Or a cassock (loose, hip-length item with sleeves).  And of course, heavy
stockings, and probably an extra petticoat or two.  When everything's made
of wool, four layers can keep one nice and toasty.

Drea

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote:

> Ugh.  It's snowing.  The leaves aren't even all off the trees and it's
> snowing, to the tune of 1-4 inches by morning.
> Colder and darker months always seem to lead me to think of warmer
> clothing, both in my mundane life, and with my historical costumes
> (especially this year, as I no longer have use of my old cloak, which
> developed too many holes to be useful as a cloak).  This, in turn, made
> me think that it might be fun to discuss what our various times/cultures
> of chosen interest used for cold weather gear (assuming that it was
> needed!). I've been looking for medieval ideas, being in the SCA, but
> most of what I've been finding in my various illustrated books, books of
> hours, etc., are men in cloaks, men in mantles, etc.  Women seem to add
> a hood/cowl combination, but I'm not seeing cloaks. Rarely, there's a
> ceremonial cloak/mantle, and sometimes something that's probably part of
> a habit (drapey cloak things on nuns, for instance).  It's
> interesting--in the depictions of winter activities, they aren't wearing
> as little clothing as during haying/harvest (no skirts hiked up, for
> instance), but they don't seem to be wearing tons more...maybe they just
> added a layer?
> What would the personas/characters of the rest of you have worn?
> --sue, curious
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:48:09 +0000
Status: RO

Very timely for me. A couple of weeks ago I attended a "Living History training day" organised by my reenactment society at an open-air museum. One of the talks was by Jane Huggett (whom some UK list members may know) on 17th century costume, and she said the same thing - that she had seen few contemporary illustrations of women wearing cloaks. This provoked much discussion afterwards, especially as the weather was cold and wet and most of us were wearing our cloaks at the time. 
Of course our more usual concern is keeping cool in woollens in summer, but it can get pretty cold during the reenactment season. I'd like to make myself a jacket, and I know they wore hoods as a separate garment, and muffs for the hands. It's hard to imagine not using a cloak if you had to go out in the rain, though.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> mooncat@in-tch.com 10/29/02 05:36am >>>
Ugh.  It's snowing.  The leaves aren't even all off the trees and it's
snowing, to the tune of 1-4 inches by morning.
Colder and darker months always seem to lead me to think of warmer
clothing, both in my mundane life, and with my historical costumes
(especially this year, as I no longer have use of my old cloak, which
developed too many holes to be useful as a cloak).  This, in turn, made
me think that it might be fun to discuss what our various times/cultures
of chosen interest used for cold weather gear (assuming that it was
needed!). I've been looking for medieval ideas, being in the SCA, but
most of what I've been finding in my various illustrated books, books of
hours, etc., are men in cloaks, men in mantles, etc.  Women seem to add
a hood/cowl combination, but I'm not seeing cloaks. Rarely, there's a
ceremonial cloak/mantle, and sometimes something that's probably part of
a habit (drapey cloak things on nuns, for instance).  It's
interesting--in the depictions of winter activities, they aren't wearing
as little clothing as during haying/harvest (no skirts hiked up, for
instance), but they don't seem to be wearing tons more...maybe they just
added a layer? 
What would the personas/characters of the rest of you have worn?
--sue, curious
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:19:20 +0000
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Arlys wrote

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> cley@juno.com 10/28/02 07:50am >>>
>What's a crosse cloth?

This is what we have been trying to establish! The OED defines it as "a linen cloth worn across the forehead", and quotes a couple of references from the 1580s to babies wearing them; also from Moryson in 1617 "Many weare such cross-clothes or forehead clothes as our women use when they are sicke." So it does seem to be headgear and not neckwear, though its exact function is unclear.




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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely topic
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:51:54 +0000 (GMT)
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In my period, from 1660 onwards, I have never ever seena  cloak other than a
half circle that is slung over the shoulders and then down the front. They
appear in different lengths in images, this is my first one, a small one:

http://www.kipar.org/members/louise/1660s_louise14.jpg

I made another one, twice as big, it does look, when worn, like the
contemporary images. I also made a black woolen hood to go when outdoors and
raining and cold, to go over the linen hood. Together with gloves, it all works
remarkably well, probably because I wear a linen petticoat under the silk one.
Silk is terrible for insulation.

Nicole

 --- Kate M Bunting  wrote: > Very timely for me. A
couple of weeks ago I attended a "Living History
> training day" organised by my reenactment society at an open-air museum. One
> of the talks was by Jane Huggett (whom some UK list members may know) on 17th
> century costume, and she said the same thing - that she had seen few
> contemporary illustrations of women wearing cloaks. This provoked much
> discussion afterwards, especially as the weather was cold and wet and most of
> us were wearing our cloaks at the time. 
> Of course our more usual concern is keeping cool in woollens in summer, but
> it can get pretty cold during the reenactment season. I'd like to make myself
> a jacket, and I know they wore hoods as a separate garment, and muffs for the
> hands. It's hard to imagine not using a cloak if you had to go out in the
> rain, though.
> 
> 
> Kate Bunting
> Library, University of Derby
> 
> >>> mooncat@in-tch.com 10/29/02 05:36am >>>
> Ugh.  It's snowing.  The leaves aren't even all off the trees and it's
> snowing, to the tune of 1-4 inches by morning.
> Colder and darker months always seem to lead me to think of warmer
> clothing, both in my mundane life, and with my historical costumes
> (especially this year, as I no longer have use of my old cloak, which
> developed too many holes to be useful as a cloak).  This, in turn, made
> me think that it might be fun to discuss what our various times/cultures
> of chosen interest used for cold weather gear (assuming that it was
> needed!). I've been looking for medieval ideas, being in the SCA, but
> most of what I've been finding in my various illustrated books, books of
> hours, etc., are men in cloaks, men in mantles, etc.  Women seem to add
> a hood/cowl combination, but I'm not seeing cloaks. Rarely, there's a
> ceremonial cloak/mantle, and sometimes something that's probably part of
> a habit (drapey cloak things on nuns, for instance).  It's
> interesting--in the depictions of winter activities, they aren't wearing
> as little clothing as during haying/harvest (no skirts hiked up, for
> instance), but they don't seem to be wearing tons more...maybe they just
> added a layer? 
> What would the personas/characters of the rest of you have worn?
> --sue, curious
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com 
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
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> 
> 
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=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:13:04 -0500
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        Since I have been in SCA only a year and live in central Florida,
I haven't found the need for any cold weather gear.  I have a piece of
very heavy upholstery velvet that I planned to make a cape from, but just
haven't gotten around to it.  Mostly, I just try not to melt in the heat.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From: kris 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely topic
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I tend to do 14th century when it's cold. I just layer all of my tunics 
(two short linen, one long linen, and one long wool), and put my coif and 
hood on, and make sure I'm wearing both linen and woolen stockings. It 
usually works. If I'm sitting near a fire and I'm still cold, I wrap a 
woolen blanket around me.

My preferred time period is 1490s Italy, but I've discovered that if my 
neck and shoulders aren't totally covered, and I don't have anything on my 
head, I can be wearing as many layers as I want and I'll still freeze. Does 
anyone have any tips on cold weather clothing from Italy?

:] kris

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
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>What would the personas/characters of the rest of you have worn?

Each one of the several of them would have worn either cloaks or coats.


Kayta

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Subject: [h-cost] Sherborne Missal online
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Medievalists may like to view illuminations from this 14th century missal courtesy of the British Library. Go to www.bl.uk and click on "Turning the pages" for some charming bird pictures as well as portraits of clerics and Biblical scenes.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Sue Clemenger wrote:

>
> What would the personas/characters of the rest of you have worn?
> --sue, curious
>

That depends on when I'm doing. When I'm doing twelfth century I wear
a mantle. When I'm doing 13th I pile on the layers, plus I have a hood and
a couple of surcoats especially for cold weather ( I love my garde-corps).
The
hood and the garde-corps also get used when I do 14th century stuff. I find
I
don't need much in the way of cold protection when I'm wearing early 15th
(mmmm houppelandes), and so far my later 15th stuff is all indoors only
gear.
For lower class 16th I start off by putting sleeves on, and if that isn't
enough on
goes the jacket.
Of course, it helps that it doesn't really get that cold here....

Claire


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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely topic II
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>         Since I have been in SCA only a year and live in central Florida,
>I haven't found the need for any cold weather gear.  I have a piece of
>very heavy upholstery velvet that I planned to make a cape from, but just
>haven't gotten around to it.  Mostly, I just try not to melt in the heat.

I live in California.  While my personae would have worn various capes and 
coats, depending on when and where they were, I stopped making outer-wear 
for them when I realized I wasn't wearing it.  I made a burnous/cape for my 
Dickens' Fair character, for when I was pregnant with my 14-year-old.  It's 
made of a striped cotton India bedspread, not the wool it should be made 
of, and even unlined it's too hot to wear.  Dolmans are 'cool' garments, so 
I made a thin corduroy dolman for my 1880s character.  It's lined with 
shirt-weight cotton, and it's way too hot to wear.  I haven't bothered 
making outer-wear garments for anybody else.  But I am slowly building up a 
supply of sun parasols and rain umbrellas for them.

My personae don't have any wool garments either, tho I have some thin 
suit-weight wool for 1890s-1900s walking skirts.

Kayta

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--0-127572634-1035936486=:30251
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I was just perusing the Costume Society of America website, and they were advertising a 2003 calendar entitled  Underwear: Beneath Historic Fashions by Sally Queen (Editor) which is available now through Amazon.  Carol
 
 


Carol Mitchell CoChair CostumeCon 21 www.jennifarse.com/cc2003
Check out costumemidwest at yahoogroups.com
Chicagoland Costumer's Guild www.enteract.com/~ccg


---------------------------------
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I was just perusing the Costume Society of America website, and they were advertising a 2003 calendar entitled  Underwear: Beneath Historic Fashions by Sally Queen (Editor) which is available now through Amazon.  Carol

 

 


Carol Mitchell CoChair CostumeCon 21 www.jennifarse.com/cc2003
Check out costumemidwest at yahoogroups.com
Chicagoland Costumer's Guild www.enteract.com/~ccg

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= 
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 --- Sue Clemenger 
wrote:

> What would the personas/characters of the rest of
> you have worn?


For later 16thC Venice - thicker, heavier veils;
surcoats/ropas, usually fur-lined; velvet clothing,
more petticoats, and muffs. :)


Bella...who is heading into summer and stupidly got
herself sunburnt at a picnic last weekend....

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I've also heard it referred to as "brick stitch," but that's when it
looks more like a counted-thread satin stitch, and doesn't have that
distinctive, sort of abstract flame-y pattern I associate with bargello
(rightly or wrongly).
I also remember seeing some examples of this stitch in the textile rooms
at the V&A....
--sue, returning to hibernation mode (it's bloody well *way* below
freezing out there, with the wind chill! brrrrrr....)

Cynthia J Ley wrote:
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> Chris, as far as my own modest researches into the area have been able to
> tell, "bargello" is actually a fairly modern term for the stitch, term
> being post-1700. It was called Florentine before 1600. Other names for
> similar-type stitches are flame point, Hungarian stitch, and Irish
> stitch. Yes? No?
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All of Sally's calendars have been great, and this one is no exception.  She 
was even interviewed on NPR's Weekend Edition.  The piece aired Sept. 14.  
(It was available on the NPR website.  I'm not sure how long they keep things 
up.)

Ann Wass

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All of Sally's calendars have been great, and this one is no exception.  She was even interviewed on NPR's Weekend Edition.  The piece aired Sept. 14.  (It was available on the NPR website.  I'm not sure how long they keep things up.)



Ann Wass

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Hi. Since I do many periods, my winter gear would vary. I'll go with my 17th
Cent. Barber-Surgeon, though. As the weather gets colder, Michael Graham adds
layers to his clothing. First, a soldier's coat over his doublet, and a hooded
Spanish Riders Cloak (3/4 round with a hood) when it rains/snows. He may wear
a one pound Monmouth cap, knitted in the style of the fashionable beaver hats
of the wealthy, a Montero, or English Fog Hat or a simple Monmouth Cap. He has
been thinking of having a Cassock or a Soldier's greatcoat made, the latter in
the style of those worn by officers on the Continent in the wars there. He has
knitted gloves, fashionably made with gauntletted cuffs, as well as sheepskin
mittens, and he is taken to wearing riding boots with large uppers, well
oiled, when walking distances in the muck, or riding. He also owns a few pair
of heavily fulled knitted stockings which provide good padding in the
abovementioned boots.  He is thinking of having winter shoes with cork soles
made. At home, he has his woolen gown and indoor shoes in which he sits before
the fire, as well as his nightcap and a second nightshirt. His practice has
not done well of late, due to disturbances at home, so furred gowns are not
planned for his future wear. His practice at St. Thomas Hospital, Southwark,
may soon come to an end as London, a Parliamentarian bastion, is beginning to
become too unbearable for his politics. Perhaps he will wait for spring before
the move to Oxford...   Mike T.



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 02:36:29 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] winter woolies :)
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hi

welll, my persona is burgundian, and all my outer robes are supposed to be 
of heavy fabric lined with fur, with an inner kirtle of wool. and a linen 
chemise. i'm in south africa, and even in cape town winter it barely gets 
below 5 degrees C at night. so i have to make my outfits totally 
inaccurately, out of satin, or linen, and try to achieve the look without 
melting. i can sympathise with people in florida. we have pretty much the 
same setup here. in summer it can get to 40 degrees C, so i usually ditch 
all semblances of accuracy. *bad re-enactor*

i've been thinking of making a silk burgundian. not really period, i think, 
but it'll be comfy. i'd love a velvet burgundian with fur trim, and a soft 
wool kirtle. but unless i attend an even in greenland, it just doesn't seem 
likely.

just my 2 rands worth from sunny s.a. (it's warm, sunny, about 25 C outside) 
:P

Jo


-Ameline de Leeuwe, Shire of Adamastor, South Africa
"per bend azure and gules, a bear rampant ermine, maintaining a book or"



>Message: 2
>Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:36:43 -0700
>From: Sue Clemenger 
>To: "h-costume@indra.com" 
>Subject: [h-cost] Timely topic
>Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
>
>Ugh.  It's snowing.  The leaves aren't even all off the trees and it's
>snowing, to the tune of 1-4 inches by morning.
>Colder and darker months always seem to lead me to think of warmer
>clothing, both in my mundane life, and with my historical costumes
>(especially this year, as I no longer have use of my old cloak, which
>developed too many holes to be useful as a cloak).  This, in turn, made
>me think that it might be fun to discuss what our various times/cultures
>of chosen interest used for cold weather gear (assuming that it was
>needed!). I've been looking for medieval ideas, being in the SCA, but
>most of what I've been finding in my various illustrated books, books of
>hours, etc., are men in cloaks, men in mantles, etc.  Women seem to add
>a hood/cowl combination, but I'm not seeing cloaks. Rarely, there's a
>ceremonial cloak/mantle, and sometimes something that's probably part of
>a habit (drapey cloak things on nuns, for instance).  It's
>interesting--in the depictions of winter activities, they aren't wearing
>as little clothing as during haying/harvest (no skirts hiked up, for
>instance), but they don't seem to be wearing tons more...maybe they just
>added a layer?
>What would the personas/characters of the rest of you have worn?
>--sue, curious




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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely topic
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:18:33 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

You say 17th c. Which specific years? The 17th c lasts 100 years.

Nicole

 --- leigh tartaglio  wrote: > Hi. Since I do many periods, my
winter gear would vary. I'll go with my 17th
> Cent. Barber-Surgeon, though. As the weather gets colder, Michael Graham adds
> layers to his clothing. First, a soldier's coat over his doublet, and a
> hooded
> Spanish Riders Cloak (3/4 round with a hood) when it rains/snows. He may wear
> a one pound Monmouth cap, knitted in the style of the fashionable beaver hats
> of the wealthy, a Montero, or English Fog Hat or a simple Monmouth Cap. He
> has
> been thinking of having a Cassock or a Soldier's greatcoat made, the latter
> in
> the style of those worn by officers on the Continent in the wars there. He
> has
> knitted gloves, fashionably made with gauntletted cuffs, as well as sheepskin
> mittens, and he is taken to wearing riding boots with large uppers, well
> oiled, when walking distances in the muck, or riding. He also owns a few pair
> of heavily fulled knitted stockings which provide good padding in the
> abovementioned boots.  He is thinking of having winter shoes with cork soles
> made. At home, he has his woolen gown and indoor shoes in which he sits
> before
> the fire, as well as his nightcap and a second nightshirt. His practice has
> not done well of late, due to disturbances at home, so furred gowns are not
> planned for his future wear. His practice at St. Thomas Hospital, Southwark,
> may soon come to an end as London, a Parliamentarian bastion, is beginning to
> become too unbearable for his politics. Perhaps he will wait for spring
> before
> the move to Oxford...   Mike T.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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I have to agree there.  Living in Tampa myself, it was 81* at 8am.  Even when it gets "really cold" down here, a light cloak or blanket seems to be more than enough, even for those with less, um... padding than I do.;-)
MoiraSince I have been in SCA only a year and live in central Florida,
I haven't found the need for any cold weather gear. I have a piece of
very heavy upholstery velvet that I planned to make a cape from, but just
haven't gotten around to it. Mostly, I just try not to melt in the heat.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender

--0-2033614644-1035987058=:18789
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


I have to agree there.  Living in Tampa myself, it was 81* at 8am.  Even when it gets "really cold" down here, a light cloak or blanket seems to be more than enough, even for those with less, um... padding than I do.;-)

Moira

Since I have been in SCA only a year and live in central Florida,
I haven't found the need for any cold weather gear. I have a piece of
very heavy upholstery velvet that I planned to make a cape from, but just
haven't gotten around to it. Mostly, I just try not to melt in the heat.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender

--0-2033614644-1035987058=:18789--
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 09:40:01 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely topic
From: Grace Morris 
To: 
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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When I moved from lllinois to Austin, Texas, I sold my cloak and my
=B3way-below-12th night=B2 Elizabethan coat.  Never missed them.  My favorites
these days are 13th c. Spanish outer garments which include tunic/coats and
=B3ponchos=B2 (almexia, aljuba, etc..). I=B9m anti-cloak myself.  The wind blows
them open,  I never have enough hands to hold them closed and carry all my
stuff...I trip on them...

Jessamyn/Grace=20

On 10/30/02 9:10 AM, "HEATHER CUTLER"  wrote:

> I have to agree there.  Living in Tampa myself, it was 81* at 8am.  Even =
when
> it gets "really cold" down here, a light cloak or blanket seems to be mor=
e
> than enough, even for those with less, um... padding than I do.;-)
>=20
> Moira=20
>> Since I have been in SCA only a year and live in central Florida,
>> I haven't found the need for any cold weather gear. I have a piece of
>> very heavy upholstery velvet that I planned to make a cape from, but jus=
t
>> haven't gotten around to it. Mostly, I just try not to melt in the heat.
>>=20
>> Lalah
>> Never give up, Never surrender
>>=20
>>=20


--B_3118815611_521851
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable



Re: [h-cost] Timely topic


When I moved from lllinois to Austin, Texas, I sold m=
y cloak and my “way-below-12th night” Elizabethan coat.  Ne=
ver missed them.  My favorites these days are 13th c. Spanish outer gar=
ments which include tunic/coats and “ponchos” (almexia, aljuba, =
etc..). I’m anti-cloak myself.  The wind blows them open,  I=
 never have enough hands to hold them closed and carry all my stuff...I trip=
 on them...



Jessamyn/Grace 



On 10/30/02 9:10 AM, "HEATHER CUTLER" <moirabeaneoin@prodigy.n=
et> wrote:




I have to agree there.  Livin=
g in Tampa myself, it was 81* at 8am.  Even when it gets "really c=
old" down here, a light cloak or blanket seems to be more than enough, =
even for those with less, um... padding than I do.;-) 



Moira 


Since I have been in SCA only a ye=
ar and live in central Florida,

I haven't found the need for any cold weather gear. I have a piece of

very heavy upholstery velvet that I planned to make a cape from, but just
haven't gotten around to it. Mostly, I just try not to melt in the heat.


Lalah

Never give up, Never surrender











--B_3118815611_521851--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 11:29:47 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre-1600 stitches?
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:19:04 +0000
Status: RO

Except it's not really--it's related to it, and some of the authors I
read suggested that it was an outgrowth of satin stitch as well. The
flame-type pattern is apparently usually referred to as flame-point or
Hungarian stitch. I don't know how old that one is--I study English
embroideries as opposed to Continental, and so far I haven't found any c.
1600 pieces in that particular pattern. There's also an arches and spires
pattern which survives in Elizabethan and Stuart pieces (bedcovers and
bed curtains).

I didn't want to crawl out of my warm bed this morning either--dropped
into the low 30's last night, which is COLD for this temperate part of
the Pacific Northwest. :)

Arlys

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:31:34 -0700 Sue Clemenger 
writes:
> I've also heard it referred to as "brick stitch," but that's when it
> looks more like a counted-thread satin stitch, and doesn't have that
> distinctive, sort of abstract flame-y pattern I associate with 
> bargello (rightly or wrongly).
> I also remember seeing some examples of this stitch in the textile 
> rooms at the V&A....
> --sue, returning to hibernation mode (it's bloody well *way* below
> freezing out there, with the wind chill! brrrrrr....)


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 11:58:32 2002
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:58:08 -0600
Status: RO

I've become a coat convert too.  I always used a cape at faire for years
and wondered why I would still get cold.  I was very anemic one year
(makes you more sensitive to cold) and made myself a loose, unlined coat
from some Pendelton wool scrapes (more a suit-weight than coat-weight
fabric).  The front edges overlapped and I would just belt it on.  The
difference was amazing!  I now use it for most of my other events with
the cape as a back-up for wind protection, altho I'm thinking a chaperon
would do just as well.  Where is my scrap bin again.....

Dealing with the weather is always a last minute event for some
participants at our faire.  We usually start out at 100 degrees plus :).
 No one wants to think about planning for freezing weather (it's
happened!) when they are sweating so capes tend to be the quick
solution.  Slowly we are teaching the regulars to layer, layer, layer.

Catherine
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 12:10:16 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: [h-cost] 18th. century dress supports.
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:11:36 +0100
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Hello.
I am going to make an 18th c. panier for my client, and i have done this a
coupple of times.
However this time i want to make a different one, and i have studyed all
those frames there are in all my books, and there are quite a few. I think
it was about time that someone made some research for this, and i have
therefore desided that i want to draw every kind of dress support there is
to find in books and post them on my homepage. Then it would be a kind of
database for this topic.
For the new panier i am going to make, i have desided i want to make one
like the farthingale frame there is in Carl Köhler's book. It is with
collapsible side hoops. Tape tied.
This is much easyer to make such a one, compared to the fabric covered
hoops. And then i will make a petticoat in some heavy fabric, wich will hide
all the hoop frames.
Well until now, i think i have found 10 different kinds of supports, and
when i have posted to my homepage, i would be very glad, if some of you
could help me. Because if there are others i dont know of, perhaps you would
be so kind as to send me a copy, so that i could make a drawing of it.
I think it is quite legal, that i use some of my drawings to post on the
web, even that i have drawn them from books. As i understand it, it is only
the photos, wich you may not use.
In Dangerous Liasions, Glen Close is wearing such a collapsible panier
frame, so i think it is autentic to use it.

Many greetings

Bjarne


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 12:28:57 2002
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From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely topic
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 12:28:06 -0500
Status: RO

On the other hand, you're able to hold outdoor events all year long. We have
camping events from April to September, and even the beginning and end of
the camping season are usually good ways to freeze to death!

It makes for a nice change usually. Camping/outdoor in the summer (war
camps, usually) and more "serious" events in the winter, indoors. That's
when you get your fancy garb out of the closet. Although fighters sometimes
go outside to practice when it's above freezing (and sometimes even below if
it's sunny enough), even if that means they don't have a public :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: HEATHER CUTLER
To: h-costume@indra.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely topic


I have to agree there.  Living in Tampa myself, it was 81* at 8am.  Even
when it gets "really cold" down here, a light cloak or blanket seems to be
more than enough, even for those with less, um... padding than I do.;-)
Moira
Since I have been in SCA only a year and live in central Florida,
I haven't found the need for any cold weather gear. I have a piece of
very heavy upholstery velvet that I planned to make a cape from, but just
haven't gotten around to it. Mostly, I just try not to melt in the heat.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 16:01:45 2002
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:01:18 -0800
Status: RO



Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:

> On the other hand, you're able to hold outdoor events all year long. We have
> camping events from April to September, and even the beginning and end of
> the camping season are usually good ways to freeze to death!
>

Not necessarily. In Australia there are very few events in December and January
because it's just too hot, and we go camping in winter, because it's not that
cold.

Claire

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 16:20:48 2002
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:11:30 -0600
Status: RO

I have been outside in my Elizabethans on quite a few occasions when the
weather was rather brisk and I can report that with a few additions such
as a muff or a short shoulder cloak, my Elizabethan kit is quite warm and
toasty. And I have made my Elizabethans with the expectation of wearing
them during the broiling summers at the Renfaire so they aren't as heavy
and they don't have as many layers as real Elizabethans would probably
have had. I think that wearing a long cloak over a farthingale is pretty
pointless, the fabric would be much better put into a nice flannel
petticoat or two, the hip length wool cloak that I made keeps my neck and
shoulders warm and the bodice and skirts keep the rest of me warm. As a
matter of fact, I think that a nice wool surcoat lined with fur would be
the best possible wrap to wear on a cold day. 

Karen

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 16:25:22 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Flying with a Parasol?
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:26:04 -0500
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No, not like Mary Poppins. :-)

I just spent the last two weeks in San Juan, Puerto Rico on a business trip and am
looking at spending another couple weeks there again before February.  Walking
around, I saw a fair number of women walking around with umbrellas or parasols as
protection against the sun.  It occurred to me that I might bring one of mine
along on my return trip, but I have no idea if such a thing is allowed on
airplanes these days.  (I don't have one that's small enough to fit in a suitcase,
so would have to bring it along as a carry-on.)  Does anyone have any experience
travelling with a parasol?

Thanks!

--jen

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Hi. Michael Graham lives in London in the early 1640s. He later on joined the
King's Army at Oxford and served with Blackwell's Regt. as a Surgeon. I forget
sometimes that not everyone will get the references to Parliament, Oxford and the
"disturbances" except those doing the specific period. The gloves (woolen knit,
gauntletted) are copies of the Gunnister finds which are dated late in the century,
but others of their type are extant for the period, including mitten types from
Sweden. The Montero is a hat seen both in Continental and English illos. It folds
down to form a neck protector. (A reasonable facsimile is seen being worn by Lady
DeWinter in the 1970s Three Musketeers movie as a fashion accessory) The soldier's
greatcoat evolved from the hongreline, or Eastern European coat, which in turn
evolved from the caftan-like garments of the Ottoman Turks. It later became the
long coats of the 1660s and later. Mike T.

N Kipar wrote:

> You say 17th c. Which specific years? The 17th c lasts 100 years.
>

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th. century dress supports.
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In a message dated 10/30/2002 12:10:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


> In Dangerous Liasions, Glen Close is wearing such a collapsible panier
> frame, so i think it is autentic to use it.
> 

Having worked with James Acheson, the designer of "DL", on "Last of the 
Mohicans", the cage version of panniers is probably supported by research. He 
made us show him some kind of research for any garments we made on "Mohicans".

Later, I made up a pair in a cage version but just used the dimensions found 
in the pair in Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines. They work better if you use 
narrow tapes. I used 3 double rows of commercial hoop wire encased in striped 
linen and 1/2" twill tape [but I'd use narrower if I were you]. I cut the 
hoop casings long...leaving unhooped sections a both ends with the wires 
centered in each. Then, while flat, I pinned the tapes to them, one in the 
middle [use this as your fixed starting point with the hoops at a right angle 
to the tape], one at each end of the hoops [they get shorter as you go up 
y'know], and one in-between these, at what looked like the correct angles. 
Then I put a 3/4" grosgrain tape on the dummy's waist and pinned the tapes in 
place. Then bring the ends of the casings around so the hoops bow out and pin 
in place. You can then adjust the lengths and angles of the tapes, even them 
up [so they're the same on both sides], take the grosgrain off the waist and 
sew it all up. TAH DAH!

Mine close with a buckle CF and I made a small sausage pad that I tacked to 
the back between the 2 side hoops.

Have fun!

--part1_127.198b1c4d.2af1c25d_boundary
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In a message dated 10/30/2002 12:10:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:





In Dangerous Liasions, Glen Close is wearing such a collapsible panier

frame, so i think it is autentic to use it.





Having worked with James Acheson, the designer of "DL", on "Last of the Mohicans", the cage version of panniers is probably supported by research. He made us show him some kind of research for any garments we made on "Mohicans".



Later, I made up a pair in a cage version but just used the dimensions found in the pair in Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines. They work better if you use narrow tapes. I used 3 double rows of commercial hoop wire encased in striped linen and 1/2" twill tape [but I'd use narrower if I were you]. I cut the hoop casings long...leaving unhooped sections a both ends with the wires centered in each. Then, while flat, I pinned the tapes to them, one in the middle [use this as your fixed starting point with the hoops at a right angle to the tape], one at each end of the hoops [they get shorter as you go up y'know], and one in-between these, at what looked like the correct angles. Then I put a 3/4" grosgrain tape on the dummy's waist and pinned the tapes in place. Then bring the ends of the casings around so the hoops bow out and pin in place. You can then adjust the lengths and angles of the tapes, even them up [so they're the same on both sides], take the grosgrain off the waist !
and sew it all up. TAH DAH!



Mine close with a buckle CF and I made a small sausage pad that I tacked to the back between the 2 side hoops.



Have fun!

--part1_127.198b1c4d.2af1c25d_boundary--
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th. century dress supports.
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Dear AlbertCat.
Thanks a lot for your wonderfull informations.
I have tryed to make these before, and i also used narrow strips to hold =
the frames together.
There is one difference between those cage paniers and the sewed ones.
The skirt wawes much easyer in a cage panier than in a sewed panier. But =
perhaps i could prevent this if i sewed a heavy pleated frill to the =
last hoop, it would make it more heavy, and then it would not wawe so =
much.
Sorry of the word wawe, but i hope you get my mening.
There is a picture of a panier in Gallerie des Modes et Costumes =
francaise where a milliner is delivering her goods.
She carries a panier on her left arm. This is a sewed one, and it seems =
to me that it has been padded as well.=20
This is the type, i would really like to try to make, but i think it =
would be very difficult to make it. It only has 3 hoops, and the cut of =
such a panier would be quite difficult to figure out.
It dont look like Norah Waughs panier, and Hunnisets neither.
Perhaps one could try to tape the hoops together to a waistband first, =
and then try to drape some fabric to fit the hoops this way,,,,,,,,,
Oh i wish i had more time, there are so many things i would like to =
try.............
Thanks for your wonderfull informations, it was very generous of you.
Now i really must se that movie, such a shame on me, that i did not se =
it yeat.
Bjarne
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: AlbertCat@aol.com=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th. century dress supports.


  In a message dated 10/30/2002 12:10:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, =
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:=20



    In Dangerous Liasions, Glen Close is wearing such a collapsible =
panier=20
    frame, so i think it is autentic to use it.=20



  Having worked with James Acheson, the designer of "DL", on "Last of =
the Mohicans", the cage version of panniers is probably supported by =
research. He made us show him some kind of research for any garments we =
made on "Mohicans".=20

  Later, I made up a pair in a cage version but just used the dimensions =
found in the pair in Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines. They work better if =
you use narrow tapes. I used 3 double rows of commercial hoop wire =
encased in striped linen and 1/2" twill tape [but I'd use narrower if I =
were you]. I cut the hoop casings long...leaving unhooped sections a =
both ends with the wires centered in each. Then, while flat, I pinned =
the tapes to them, one in the middle [use this as your fixed starting =
point with the hoops at a right angle to the tape], one at each end of =
the hoops [they get shorter as you go up y'know], and one in-between =
these, at what looked like the correct angles. Then I put a 3/4" =
grosgrain tape on the dummy's waist and pinned the tapes in place. Then =
bring the ends of the casings around so the hoops bow out and pin in =
place. You can then adjust the lengths and angles of the tapes, even =
them up [so they're the same on both sides], take the grosgrain off the =
waist ! and sew it all up. TAH DAH!=20

  Mine close with a buckle CF and I made a small sausage pad that I =
tacked to the back between the 2 side hoops.=20

  Have fun!=20

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C28075.84B971F0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Dear AlbertCat.


Thanks a lot for your wonderfull=20
informations.


I have tryed to make these before, and =
i also used=20
narrow strips to hold the frames together.


There is one difference between those =
cage paniers=20
and the sewed ones.


The skirt wawes much easyer in a cage =
panier than=20
in a sewed panier. But perhaps i could prevent this if i sewed a heavy =
pleated=20
frill to the last hoop, it would make it more heavy, and then it would =
not wawe=20
so much.


Sorry of the word wawe, but i hope you =
get my=20
mening.


There is a picture of a panier in =
Gallerie des=20
Modes et Costumes francaise where a milliner is delivering her=20
goods.


She carries a panier on her left arm. =
This is a=20
sewed one, and it seems to me that it has been padded as well. =



This is the type, i would really like =
to try to=20
make, but i think it would be very difficult to make it. It only has 3 =
hoops,=20
and the cut of such a panier would be quite difficult to figure=20
out.


It dont look like Norah Waughs panier, =
and=20
Hunnisets neither.


Perhaps one could try to tape the hoops =
together to=20
a waistband first, and then try to drape some fabric to fit the hoops =
this=20
way,,,,,,,,,


Oh i wish i had more time, there are so =
many things=20
i would like to try.............


Thanks for your wonderfull =
informations, it was=20
very generous of you.


Now i really must se that movie, such a =
shame on=20
me, that i did not se it yeat.


Bjarne


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  AlbertCat@aol.com 
  
  
Sent: Thursday, October 31, =
2002 12:16=20
  AM

  
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th. =
century dress=20
  supports.

  

In a =
message dated=20
  10/30/2002 12:10:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk =
writes:=20
  



  In Dangerous Liasions, Glen Close is wearing such a =
collapsible=20
    panier 
frame, so i think it is autentic to use it. =



Having worked with James =
Acheson, the=20
  designer of "DL", on "Last of the Mohicans", the cage version of =
panniers is=20
  probably supported by research. He made us show him some kind of =
research for=20
  any garments we made on "Mohicans". 

Later, I made up a pair in =
a cage=20
  version but just used the dimensions found in the pair in Waugh's =
Corsets and=20
  Crinolines. They work better if you use narrow tapes. I used 3 double =
rows of=20
  commercial hoop wire encased in striped linen and 1/2" twill tape [but =
I'd use=20
  narrower if I were you]. I cut the hoop casings long...leaving =
unhooped=20
  sections a both ends with the wires centered in each. Then, while =
flat, I=20
  pinned the tapes to them, one in the middle [use this as your fixed =
starting=20
  point with the hoops at a right angle to the tape], one at each end of =
the=20
  hoops [they get shorter as you go up y'know], and one in-between =
these, at=20
  what looked like the correct angles. Then I put a 3/4" grosgrain tape =
on the=20
  dummy's waist and pinned the tapes in place. Then bring the ends of =
the=20
  casings around so the hoops bow out and pin in place. You can then =
adjust the=20
  lengths and angles of the tapes, even them up [so they're the same on =
both=20
  sides], take the grosgrain off the waist ! and sew it all up. TAH DAH! =

  

Mine close with a buckle CF and I made a small sausage pad =
that I=20
  tacked to the back between the 2 side hoops. 

Have fun!=20


------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C28075.84B971F0--


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely Topic
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:35:51 -0800
Status: RO

when do sweaters appear as outerwear?

At 10:58 AM 10/30/2002 -0600, Catherine Kinsey wrote:
>I've become a coat convert too.  I always used a cape at faire for years
>and wondered why I would still get cold.  I was very anemic one year
>(makes you more sensitive to cold) and made myself a loose, unlined coat
>from some Pendelton wool scrapes (more a suit-weight than coat-weight
>fabric).  The front edges overlapped and I would just belt it on.  The
>difference was amazing!  I now use it for most of my other events with
>the cape as a back-up for wind protection, altho I'm thinking a chaperon
>would do just as well.  Where is my scrap bin again.....
>
>Dealing with the weather is always a last minute event for some
>participants at our faire.  We usually start out at 100 degrees plus :).
>  No one wants to think about planning for freezing weather (it's
>happened!) when they are sweating so capes tend to be the quick
>solution.  Slowly we are teaching the regulars to layer, layer, layer.
>
>Catherine
>_______________________________________________
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From: Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely Topic
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:17:09 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

Coming late to the topic -- I just got back in town:

My personal feeling about cloaks is that they are NOT for keeping
warm (in a European climate, that is) -- they are for keeping off the
rain.  I wear mine once it gets in the 50s or lower, over a coat. 
The cloak keeps me, along with my purse and sewing bag, a lot dryer
than any umbrella, and is a lot less awkward to deal with.  So think
of (woolen) cloaks as basically raincoats, not used for warmth per
se, and they'll make a lot more sense.  Purely decorative cloaks are,
of course, another matter ;)  One can never have too many of them, or
too many excuses to wear them!

Cheers,
Mara


> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:58:08 -0600
> From: "Catherine Kinsey" 
> To: 
> Subject: [h-cost] Timely Topic
> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
> I've become a coat convert too.  I always used a cape at faire for
> years
> and wondered why I would still get cold.  (snip)

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From: Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:24:13 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO


> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:19:16 +0100 (BST)
> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
> http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Temp/StMarys2002/wiredcap.jpg
> 
> Cool cap! I am working on one like those, because they are being
> worn well into
> the 17th c., but as usual got stuck somewhere along the way with
> too many
> things to do. Do you think it would be possible to ontact the lady
> in the
> picture and ask her how she made it?
> 
> Nicole

Yep, that would be me :D  How I made it: I took some copier paper and
tissue paper; cut out a shape for the brim that looked right, held it
up to my face, adjusted it, and then made the caul till it looked
right.  I'm now wondering if the caul is just a touch too big, but am
not sure it'd stay on my head if it were any smaller.

The brim is wired with millinery wire.  This was the biggest pain in
the butt of the whole project, becaues the wire kept springing out of
shape.  I made the brim about 3/4" wider all the way around, then
folded it over the millinery wire and whip-stitched it down, and
shaped the brim into its final shape.  When that was done, I stitched
the caul to the brim.

>  Kate M Bunting  wrote:
> Great pictures, Mara. I like the wired coif too.

Thanks!

> Partlets are something you hardly ever see in our 17c reenactment
> society, for some reason. I suppose they were old-fashioned by the
> 1640s - though blackwork, which in my opinion is too early for our
> period, is very popular.

A woman at St. Mary's City told me that I'd caused a fuss about
partlets, because the English were wearing them under their stays,
jackets, etc., whereas mine was quite visible.  Not sure if that's
true or not, but I certainly was able to find documentation for using
it in a Dutch costume ca. 1630...

> Actually, they are by far not as oldfashioned as you may think. I
> did a study of all my 1660s and 1670s genre paintings (dozens and
> dozens) and I saw a lot more partlets than I would have ever
> thought, particularly Dutch paintings,  no matter if rural setting
> (admittdly mainly there) or quite well off housewives and of course
> market tenders. Partlets were still worn quite a lot even as late
> as the 1660s, and I do have to say from my studies I have found
> that what you see in Dutch paintings is not that far off from what
> was worn in England. Thankfully Holland and England are very
> similar in clothing.

And actually Alexa (www.marquise.de) has some prints of fashions in
Augsburg, Germany, that show partlets as late as 1730; I think I also
saw one on a German print elsewhere on her site at the end of the
18th century.  Go figure!  

I've been wondering how close -- or far apart -- Dutch and English
clothing was...

> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 07:02:45 -0600
> From: Sue Clemenger 
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pics from St. Mary's
> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
> Hey! Nice pictures! I always enjoy seeing how other folks play! 
> I've never seen those triangle-shaped chairs before, though....not
> sure
> if they're cool or weird. (it's early okay? and my brain's not
> functioning completely?)

They show up in Dutch genre art in the 16th/early 17th c. -- yes, an
odd shape, but they do work on uneven ground!  (Tripods are much
better on uneven ground than four-legged stools, tables, etc.)

> The red-headed lady (is that you, Mara?) is wearing a really nifty
> outfit--looks very appropriate and practical for camping.  Reminds
> me of
> the 16th c. flemish outfits we're starting to see in my neck of the
> reenactment woods.

Thank you! 
And it is definitely very practical for camping.

> And the Polish gentleman!  I think Teddy'd have like the
> flamboyant
> touches!

Oh, yeah... :D  Really great costume!  Especially the hat ;D  And I
want one of those caftans, or whatever the name is in Polish!

-- Mara

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 22:23:05 2002
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From: "Wanda Pease" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pre-1600 stitches?
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:25:04 -0800
Status: RO

Arlys,

	In a quick zoom off topic (slightly).  Did you know that the BIG 2 volume
Schuette embroidery book (2' x 1' x 3") was in the Multnomah County Library?
Naturally it is in the vaults, but they were happy to bring it up for me
when I went to see it.  It doesn't lend itself to copying of any kind, worse
luck, but dear heaven!  what a resource for period embroideries on the
continent, or at least medieval Germany!

Regina Romsey

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:19 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Cc: Cley@juno.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre-1600 stitches?


Except it's not really--it's related to it, and some of the authors I
read suggested that it was an outgrowth of satin stitch as well. The
flame-type pattern is apparently usually referred to as flame-point or
Hungarian stitch. I don't know how old that one is--I study English
embroideries as opposed to Continental, and so far I haven't found any c.
1600 pieces in that particular pattern. There's also an arches and spires
pattern which survives in Elizabethan and Stuart pieces (bedcovers and
bed curtains).

I didn't want to crawl out of my warm bed this morning either--dropped
into the low 30's last night, which is COLD for this temperate part of
the Pacific Northwest. :)

Arlys

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:31:34 -0700 Sue Clemenger 
writes:
> I've also heard it referred to as "brick stitch," but that's when it
> looks more like a counted-thread satin stitch, and doesn't have that
> distinctive, sort of abstract flame-y pattern I associate with
> bargello (rightly or wrongly).
> I also remember seeing some examples of this stitch in the textile
> rooms at the V&A....
> --sue, returning to hibernation mode (it's bloody well *way* below
> freezing out there, with the wind chill! brrrrrr....)


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Oct 30 23:03:49 2002
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From: "Wanda Pease" 
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] Timely Topic
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:05:24 -0800
Status: RO

	Suggestion for someone who wants a cape, but still gets cold.  Don't put
the opening down the center.  Many capes depicted show the opening front the
point of the shoulder down with buttons or some type of closure along the
shoulder line.  I've used mine that way several times, and it allows you to
have the arm where the opening is free to do stuff while the rest of your
body is completely covered.  If you need both hands you simply scoop up the
other side of the cape and let it drape over your arm.  Assuming you have a
big enough cape (mine is a full circle) it will then drape in a big U down
your front and back still keeping you warm.
	For an example of what I mean by buttoning/fastening on the shoulder go to:
http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Picture_Library-Wool_and_Cloth_Trades.h
tm and look at the first and second figures.
	All I can tell you is that this works.  It is comfortable.  You are covered
at all times and shielded from the harsh environment.  Best of all, in my
opinion (your mileage will vary) it's a period solution for a fairly wide
time period.

	A short period coat option (by the way, why do you belt your coat?) is
illustrated by a Guardcorps (?):
http://www.tempora-nostra.de/index_f_neu.shtml?manesse0-9 in the Manesse
Lieder Handschrift.  It also has the built in hood if you want one and
sleeves (at least I think those are sleeves that can be worn as such or not
depending on the mood of the wearer).  Personally I like a separate hood and
capelet because I can choose to wear it or not, and the capelet adds warmth
to my upper body if it is cold, or raining (I'm in AnTir) enough to need
something.

Regina Romsey


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Catherine Kinsey
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 8:58 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Timely Topic


I've become a coat convert too.  I always used a cape at faire for years
and wondered why I would still get cold.  I was very anemic one year
(makes you more sensitive to cold) and made myself a loose, unlined coat
from some Pendelton wool scrapes (more a suit-weight than coat-weight
fabric).  The front edges overlapped and I would just belt it on.  The
difference was amazing!  I now use it for most of my other events with
the cape as a back-up for wind protection, altho I'm thinking a chaperon
would do just as well.  Where is my scrap bin again.....

Dealing with the weather is always a last minute event for some
participants at our faire.  We usually start out at 100 degrees plus :).
 No one wants to think about planning for freezing weather (it's
happened!) when they are sweating so capes tend to be the quick
solution.  Slowly we are teaching the regulars to layer, layer, layer.

Catherine


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely topic
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:52:52 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- leigh tartaglio  wrote: > Hi. Michael Graham lives in
London in the early 1640s. He later on joined the

Ah, okay, 1640s then.

> King's Army at Oxford and served with Blackwell's Regt. as a Surgeon. I
> forget
> sometimes that not everyone will get the references to Parliament, Oxford and
> the
> "disturbances" except those doing the specific period. 

Exactly. I am not interested in the ECW, so saying '17th c' is rather vague,
because you do 17th c and I do 17th c, but our periods are very different I
should say. (Imagines a fontange worn in the Civil War *LOL*) 

The gloves (woolen
> knit,
> gauntletted) are copies of the Gunnister finds which are dated late in the
> century,

actually, the national museum in copenhagen, denmark, has knitted mittens,
gloves, also gauntletted (have to check the photo).

> but others of their type are extant for the period, including mitten types
> from
> Sweden. The Montero is a hat seen both in Continental and English illos. It

yes i know about that, who doesn't, particularly in England. Merchant ventures
has a good pattern for a montero cap, they also have a very nice web site,
fantastic glassware and are just plain sweet people.

> soldier's
> greatcoat evolved from the hongreline, or Eastern European coat, which in
> turn
> evolved from the caftan-like garments of the Ottoman Turks. It later became
> the
> long coats of the 1660s and later. Mike T.

That's not quite true and a tad simplified. We did research into the occurence
of the greatcoat, but I do admit that I don't have time to write all of that
down here. Sorry. 

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany)
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:26:39 +0100
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--------------040900070409060907040508
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It is in German, but someone translated some of it.

"Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque"
at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from
Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed

There are several
tapestries, two male doublets, a female doublet, as linen shirt with
blackwork on it, 2 pairs of knitted gloves and a knitted jacket. velvet and
brokate fabrics, several clerical dresses. pouches, collars. And some real
curiositys like a wire construction with silver on it to get a collars
standing!

There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos are
well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark
exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00.
(I'll try to get more information aboud this book)

Special offer is a workshop by the restorer of all the
wonderful objects! Sew a male doublet (1630-40) with the authentic
pattern he took from the original!
Dates: November 21st, 23rd and 24th, 2003
or Jan. 30th,  February 01st and 2nd 2003
Unfortionally this is in German



http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/e/e.htm
Sonderausstellung:
"Mit grossen Freuden, Triumph und Köstlichkeit" -
Textile Schätze aus Renaissance und Barock
10. Oktober 2002 bis 16. Februar 2003 

In einer Sonderausstellung zeigt das Bayerische Nationalmuseum vom 10. 
Oktober 2002 bis 16. Februar 2003 Schätze der Textilkunst des 16. und 
17. Jahrhunderts aus seinen Sammlungen.

Rund 70 Objekte, darunter Kleidungsstücke aus Stoff und Leder, modische 
Accessoires wie Krägen, Handschuhe, Krawatten, Fächer und Beutel, aber 
auch Tapisserien und orientalische Teppiche, vermitteln einen Eindruck 
von der Originalität und Vielfalt der kostbaren Bestände. Auf 
anschauliche Weise belegen sie darüber hinaus, dass luxuriöse, aufwändig 
und raffiniert gearbeitete Textilien bereits im 16. und 17. Jahrhundert 
als Statussymbole eine wichtige Rolle spielten.

Bildstickereien, Strickwaren, Quasten, Leder, Leinen-, Seiden-, Samt- 
und Wollstoffe wurden aus ganz Europa nach Bayern geliefert und zu 
eleganten Gewändern oder Ausstattungen für fürstliche ebenso wie für 
bürgerliche Auftraggeber verarbeitet.

Nur selten können derartig rare und überaus empfindliche Kostbarkeiten 
präsentiert werden. Die Ausstellung bietet in diesem Herbst Gelegenheit, 
noch nie öffentlich gezeigte Meisterwerke der Textilkunst zu entdecken.


Schneiderei à la mode
Leitung: Johannes Pietsch
In einem Wochenend-Workshop wird ein Herrenwams nach dem Originalmodell 
eines Lederkollers (um 1630 - 40) aus der Sammlung des Bayerischen 
Nationalmuseums geschneidert.

Greetings,
        Deredere

--------------040900070409060907040508
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--------------010506020309050307040709
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit





It is in German, but someone translated some of it.




"Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque"
at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from
Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed


There are several
tapestries, two male doublets, a female doublet, as linen shirt with
blackwork on it, 2 pairs of knitted gloves and a knitted jacket. velvet and
brokate fabrics, several clerical dresses. pouches, collars. And some real
curiositys like a wire construction with silver on it to get a collars
standing!

There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos are
well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark
exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00.
(I'll try to get more information aboud this book)

Special offer is a workshop by the restorer of all the
wonderful objects! Sew a male doublet (1630-40) with the authentic
pattern he took from the original!
Dates: November 21st, 23rd and 24th, 2003
or Jan. 30th,  February 01st and 2nd 2003
Unfortionally this is in German





http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/e/e.htm


Sonderausstellung: 

                  "Mit grossen Freuden, Triumph und Köstlichkeit"       
          – 

                  Textile Schätze aus Renaissance und Barock

                  10. Oktober 2002 bis 16. Februar 2003


In einer Sonderausstellung    
               zeigt das Bayerische Nationalmuseum vom 10. Oktober 2002 bis
                   16. Februar 2003 Schätze der Textilkunst des 16. und 17.
                   Jahrhunderts aus seinen Sammlungen. 



                    Rund 70 Objekte, darunter Kleidungsstücke aus Stoff und 
                   Leder, modische Accessoires wie Krägen, Handschuhe, Krawatten, 
                   Fächer und Beutel, aber auch Tapisserien und orientalische 
                   Teppiche, vermitteln einen Eindruck von der Originalität 
                   und Vielfalt der kostbaren Bestände. Auf anschauliche Weise
                   belegen sie darüber hinaus, dass luxuriöse, aufwändig 
                  und raffiniert gearbeitete Textilien bereits im 16. und 
17.                    Jahrhundert als Statussymbole eine wichtige Rolle spielten.
                   



                    Bildstickereien, Strickwaren, Quasten, Leder, Leinen-, 
Seiden-,                    Samt- und Wollstoffe wurden aus ganz Europa nach 
Bayern geliefert                    und zu eleganten Gewändern oder Ausstattungen 
für                    fürstliche ebenso wie für bürgerliche Auftraggeber 
                   verarbeitet.



                    Nur selten können derartig rare und überaus empfindliche 
                   Kostbarkeiten präsentiert werden. Die Ausstellung bietet 
                   in diesem Herbst Gelegenheit, noch nie öffentlich gezeigte 
                   Meisterwerke der Textilkunst zu entdecken.





Schneiderei à la mode


                   Leitung: Johannes Pietsch

                   In einem Wochenend-Workshop wird ein Herrenwams nach dem
Originalmodell                    eines Lederkollers (um 1630 - 40) aus der
Sammlung des Bayerischen                    Nationalmuseums geschneidert.



Greetings,

        Deredere




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  It is in German, but someone translated some of it.

"Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque"
at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from
Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed

There are several
tapestries, two male doublets, a female doublet, as linen shirt with
blackwork on it, 2 pairs of knitted gloves and a knitted jacket. velvet and
brokate fabrics, several clerical dresses. pouches, collars. And some real
curiositys like a wire construction with silver on it to get a collars
standing!

There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos are
well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark
exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00.
(I'll try to get more information aboud this book)

Special offer is a workshop by the restorer of all the
wonderful objects! Sew a male doublet (1630-40) with the authentic
pattern he took from the original!
Dates: November 21st, 23rd and 24th, 2003
or Jan. 30th,  February 01st and 2nd 2003
Unfortionally this is in German



http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/e/e.htm
Sonderausstellung:
"Mit grossen Freuden, Triumph und Köstlichkeit" -
Textile Schätze aus Renaissance und Barock
10. Oktober 2002 bis 16. Februar 2003 

In einer Sonderausstellung zeigt das Bayerische Nationalmuseum vom 10. 
Oktober 2002 bis 16. Februar 2003 Schätze der Textilkunst des 16. und 
17. Jahrhunderts aus seinen Sammlungen.

Rund 70 Objekte, darunter Kleidungsstücke aus Stoff und Leder, modische 
Accessoires wie Krägen, Handschuhe, Krawatten, Fächer und Beutel, aber 
auch Tapisserien und orientalische Teppiche, vermitteln einen Eindruck 
von der Originalität und Vielfalt der kostbaren Bestände. Auf 
anschauliche Weise belegen sie darüber hinaus, dass luxuriöse, aufwändig 
und raffiniert gearbeitete Textilien bereits im 16. und 17. Jahrhundert 
als Statussymbole eine wichtige Rolle spielten.

Bildstickereien, Strickwaren, Quasten, Leder, Leinen-, Seiden-, Samt- 
und Wollstoffe wurden aus ganz Europa nach Bayern geliefert und zu 
eleganten Gewändern oder Ausstattungen für fürstliche ebenso wie für 
bürgerliche Auftraggeber verarbeitet.

Nur selten können derartig rare und überaus empfindliche Kostbarkeiten 
präsentiert werden. Die Ausstellung bietet in diesem Herbst Gelegenheit, 
noch nie öffentlich gezeigte Meisterwerke der Textilkunst zu entdecken.


Schneiderei à la mode
Leitung: Johannes Pietsch
In einem Wochenend-Workshop wird ein Herrenwams nach dem Originalmodell 
eines Lederkollers (um 1630 - 40) aus der Sammlung des Bayerischen 
Nationalmuseums geschneidert.

Vorbereitungstreffen: Donnerstag, 21.11.2002, 18 - 20 Uhr
Workshop: Samstag/Sonntag, 23. / 24.11.2002,
jeweils 10 - 17 Uhr; max. 12 Teilnehmer
Teilnahmegebühr: 150.- Euro, zuzügl. Materialkosten
Wiederholungstermin:
Donnerstag, 30.1. und Samstag/Sonntag 1. / 2.2.2003

Greetings,
        Deredere


--------------080801000200000103060605
Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="------------030305010005030104060702"


--------------030305010005030104060702
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit





   It is in German, but someone translated some of it.




"Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque"
at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from
Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed


There are several
tapestries, two male doublets, a female doublet, as linen shirt with
blackwork on it, 2 pairs of knitted gloves and a knitted jacket. velvet and
brokate fabrics, several clerical dresses. pouches, collars. And some real
curiositys like a wire construction with silver on it to get a collars
standing!

There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos are
well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark
exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00.
(I'll try to get more information aboud this book)

Special offer is a workshop by the restorer of all the
wonderful objects! Sew a male doublet (1630-40) with the authentic
pattern he took from the original!
Dates: November 21st, 23rd and 24th, 2003
or Jan. 30th,  February 01st and 2nd 2003
Unfortionally this is in German






http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/e/e.htm



 Sonderausstellung: 

                   "Mit grossen Freuden, Triumph und Köstlichkeit"      
           – 

                   Textile Schätze aus Renaissance und Barock

                   10. Oktober 2002 bis 16. Februar 2003


In einer Sonderausstellung     
              zeigt das Bayerische Nationalmuseum vom 10. Oktober 2002 bis 
                   16. Februar 2003 Schätze der Textilkunst des 16. und 17. 
                   Jahrhunderts aus seinen Sammlungen. 



                     Rund 70 Objekte, darunter Kleidungsstücke aus Stoff
und                     Leder, modische Accessoires wie Krägen, Handschuhe,
Krawatten,                     Fächer und Beutel, aber auch Tapisserien und
orientalische                     Teppiche, vermitteln einen Eindruck von
der Originalität                     und Vielfalt der kostbaren Bestände.
Auf anschauliche Weise                    belegen sie darüber hinaus, dass
luxuriöse, aufwändig                    und raffiniert gearbeitete Textilien
bereits im 16. und  17.                    Jahrhundert als Statussymbole
eine wichtige Rolle spielten.                    



                     Bildstickereien, Strickwaren, Quasten, Leder, Leinen-,
 Seiden-,                    Samt- und Wollstoffe wurden aus ganz Europa
nach  Bayern geliefert                    und zu eleganten Gewändern oder
Ausstattungen  für                    fürstliche ebenso wie für bürgerliche
Auftraggeber                     verarbeitet.



                     Nur selten können derartig rare und überaus empfindliche
                    Kostbarkeiten präsentiert werden. Die Ausstellung bietet
                    in diesem Herbst Gelegenheit, noch nie öffentlich gezeigte
                    Meisterwerke der Textilkunst zu entdecken.





Schneiderei à la mode 


                    Leitung: Johannes Pietsch

                    In einem Wochenend-Workshop wird ein Herrenwams nach
dem Originalmodell                    eines Lederkollers (um 1630 - 40) aus
der Sammlung des Bayerischen                    Nationalmuseums geschneidert.



                   Vorbereitungstreffen:
Donnerstag, 21.11.2002, 18 - 20 Uhr 

                   Workshop: Samstag/Sonntag, 23. / 24.11.2002, 

                   jeweils 10 - 17 Uhr; max. 12 Teilnehmer

                   Teilnahmegebühr: 150.- Euro, zuzügl. Materialkosten

                   Wiederholungstermin: 

                   Donnerstag, 30.1. und Samstag/Sonntag 1. / 2.2.2003



 Greetings,

         Deredere






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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 31 12:41:58 2002
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: 
Subject:  [h-cost] Gothic Cape/ (was Timely Topic)
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 04:56:09 -0500
Status: RO

Thanks for the great suggestion and illos, Wanda. I noticed that while
the cape is buttoned down the right shoulder, the hood arrangement is
situated correctly on the head. Do you think that the cape and hood are
separate items, (thus the hoodless cape is simply rotated to open
off-center) or is this an integral feature of a one-piece garment?

Also, the brasses show this treatment for men's capes. Do you think it's
appropriate for women's capes as well? The brass of John Lyndewode and
his wife shows something completely different for her.

Thank you, I appreciate any insight anyone may have.

Linda R.

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Wanda Pease
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:05 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Timely Topic

	Suggestion for someone who wants a cape, but still gets cold.
Don't put
the opening down the center.  Many capes depicted show the opening front
the
point of the shoulder down with buttons or some type of closure along
the
shoulder line.  I've used mine that way several times, and it allows you
to
have the arm where the opening is free to do stuff while the rest of
your
body is completely covered.  If you need both hands you simply scoop up
the
other side of the cape and let it drape over your arm.  Assuming you
have a
big enough cape (mine is a full circle) it will then drape in a big U
down
your front and back still keeping you warm.
	For an example of what I mean by buttoning/fastening on the
shoulder go to:

http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Picture_Library-Wool_and_Cloth_Trad
es.htm

 and look at the first and second figures.
	All I can tell you is that this works.  It is comfortable.  You
are covered
at all times and shielded from the harsh environment.  Best of all, in
my
opinion (your mileage will vary) it's a period solution for a fairly
wide
time period.



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Oct 31 16:02:37 2002
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Linda Rice wrote:

> Thanks for the great suggestion and illos, Wanda. I noticed that while
> the cape is buttoned down the right shoulder, the hood arrangement is
> situated correctly on the head. Do you think that the cape and hood are
> separate items, (thus the hoodless cape is simply rotated to open
> off-center) or is this an integral feature of a one-piece garment?
>
> Also, the brasses show this treatment for men's capes. Do you think it's
> appropriate for women's capes as well? The brass of John Lyndewode and
> his wife shows something completely different for her.
>
> Thank you, I appreciate any insight anyone may have.
>

I'm afriad that I can't recall off the top of my head any instance of women
with cloaks or mantles from this period that didn't open at the front. All
the funky openings seem to be reserved for men.
Claire
(which isn't to say that a) I've seen every picture there is, or b) women
didn't
borrow their husbands cloaks sometimes)


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Subject: [h-cost] Photos
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:27:31 -0500
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Just a reminder to take photos of yourself today for the Online Costume
Ball!!!!  You can enter photos until Nov. 10.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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> Hi. I agree, but I was writing a simplified version. I know that the transition
> was somewhat more complicated, but I was trying to be brief. At your leisure,
> please let us know about what you have found on the subject. I would be
> interested in your findings. Cheers, Mike T.  PS What is the latest date that you
> have seen the Montero in use? I know that there are versions still in use today,
> but I suppose that, stylistically, it died out only to reappear later.  MJT
>
> That's not quite true and a tad simplified. We did research into the occurence
> of the greatcoat, but I do admit that I don't have time to write all of that
> down here. Sorry.
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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Hi. That seems to nail it down pretty well. I guess then neckcloth is the proper term for the linen item. I would be curious to know how it crosses the head, if in fact that is the meaning.  Thanks, Mike T.


> also from Moryson in 1617 "Many weare such cross-clothes or forehead clothes as our women use when they are sicke." So it does seem to be headgear and not neckwear, though its exact function is unclear.
>

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:57:23 +0100
Status: RO

I am not sure if i have understood this topic correct, but if it is some
white head covers you are talking about, isnt it a kind of "puritan fashion"
where women are not allowed to show their hair, and therefore hides all the
hairstyle with white cloth? I have seen many examples here in Denmark in
some churches, where there are some paintings of reverents with their wifes
and dead widows. They are usually dressed in fashionable dress, but all
black, and then they have some strange outfits for their heads made of white
linen?
Or have i just taken a bad path in the forrest here?

Bjarne
----- Original Message -----
From: "leigh tartaglio" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cross cloths


> Hi. That seems to nail it down pretty well. I guess then neckcloth is the
proper term for the linen item. I would be curious to know how it crosses
the head, if in fact that is the meaning.  Thanks, Mike T.
>
>
> > also from Moryson in 1617 "Many weare such cross-clothes or forehead
clothes as our women use when they are sicke." So it does seem to be
headgear and not neckwear, though its exact function is unclear.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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Greetings All!

I was just reading some of the older messages in my box about cloaks and 
such.  Does anyone know if the caped cloaks/great coats existed before the 
1800's?

Kit

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Greetings All!



I was just reading some of the older messages in my box about cloaks and such.  Does anyone know if the caped cloaks/great coats existed before the 1800's?



Kit

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 22:53:52 -0500
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Hi. If you can refer us to the illos or something, I would be curious. The
crosscloths that are being mentioned in the previous postings are, apparently,
those clothing accessories predominantly seen with embroidered caps (but are,
seemingly evident with the plain variant) that appear to be triangular, but
no-one seems to have any pictorial evidence as to how they were worn. If you
have anything, Bjarne, please let us know, it would do a great deal to solve
this mystery.  Mike T.

Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

> I am not sure if i have understood this topic correct, but if it is some
> white head covers you are talking about, isnt it a kind of "puritan fashion"
> where women are not allowed to show their hair, and therefore hides all the
> hairstyle with white cloth? I have seen many examples here in Denmark in
> some churches, where there are some paintings of reverents with their wifes
> and dead widows. They are usually dressed in fashionable dress, but all
> black, and then they have some strange outfits for their heads made of white
> linen?
> Or have i just taken a bad path in the forrest here?
>
> Bjarne

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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 01:54:08 -0500
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At 05:17 PM 10/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Coming late to the topic -- I just got back in town:
>
>My personal feeling about cloaks is that they are NOT for keeping
>warm (in a European climate, that is) -- they are for keeping off the
>rain.  I wear mine once it gets in the 50s or lower, over a coat.
>The cloak keeps me, along with my purse and sewing bag, a lot dryer
>than any umbrella, and is a lot less awkward to deal with.  So think
>of (woolen) cloaks as basically raincoats, not used for warmth per
>se, and they'll make a lot more sense.  Purely decorative cloaks are,
>of course, another matter ;)  One can never have too many of them, or
>too many excuses to wear them!
>
>Cheers,
>Mara


      This is how I use mine at work.  I have a great coat for really cold 
weather, but often when I am just trying to stay dry a wear a cloak to shed 
the water, without providing to much warmth.

Cheers,

Ron Carnegie
r.carnegie@verizon.net
	*************************************************
	"The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that
	 once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked
	 other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking
	 their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now
	 all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we
	 ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow."
				G.M. Trevelyan
	*************************************************

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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:05:22 +0000
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That's what I meant when I said I couldn't believe women didn't use cloaks in wet weather. I know we shouldn't be biased by modern assumptions, but in the absence of waterproofs or umbrellas, how else would you keep the rain off?


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> r.carnegie@verizon.net 11/01/02 06:54am >>>
At 05:17 PM 10/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Coming late to the topic -- I just got back in town:
>
>My personal feeling about cloaks is that they are NOT for keeping
>warm (in a European climate, that is) -- they are for keeping off the
>rain.  I wear mine once it gets in the 50s or lower, over a coat.
>The cloak keeps me, along with my purse and sewing bag, a lot dryer
>than any umbrella, and is a lot less awkward to deal with.  So think
>of (woolen) cloaks as basically raincoats, not used for warmth per
>se, and they'll make a lot more sense.  Purely decorative cloaks are,
>of course, another matter ;)  One can never have too many of them, or
>too many excuses to wear them!
>
>Cheers,
>Mara


      This is how I use mine at work.  I have a great coat for really cold 
weather, but often when I am just trying to stay dry a wear a cloak to shed 
the water, without providing to much warmth.

Cheers,

Ron Carnegie
r.carnegie@verizon.net 
	*************************************************
	"The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that
	 once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked
	 other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking
	 their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now
	 all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we
	 ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow."
				G.M. Trevelyan
	*************************************************

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From: "Kate M Bunting" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cross cloths
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:19:42 +0000
Status: RO

Bjarne,
We are talking about a triangular piece of linen that was sometimes worn with the 17th century coif, or cap. A few examples survive (see http://costume.dm.net/headwear/coifpics.html ) but it's not clear just why and how they were used. It was normal at this time for women, not just Puritans or widows, to cover their heads, but the cross cloth seems to have been an additional item.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 10/31/02 10:57pm >>>
I am not sure if i have understood this topic correct, but if it is some
white head covers you are talking about, isnt it a kind of "puritan fashion"
where women are not allowed to show their hair, and therefore hides all the
hairstyle with white cloth? I have seen many examples here in Denmark in
some churches, where there are some paintings of reverents with their wifes
and dead widows. They are usually dressed in fashionable dress, but all
black, and then they have some strange outfits for their heads made of white
linen?
Or have i just taken a bad path in the forrest here?

Bjarne
-


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov  1 04:31:36 2002
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From: "Kate M Bunting" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Caped Cloaks
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:31:12 +0000
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One of Hollar's 1640s women (http://www.costumes.org/pages/hollar.htm ) seems to be wearing one.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> Kitsune242@aol.com 11/01/02 12:41am >>>
Greetings All!

I was just reading some of the older messages in my box about cloaks and 
such.  Does anyone know if the caped cloaks/great coats existed before the 
1800's?

Kit


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov  1 07:30:45 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: [h-cost] 18th century dress supports
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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:33:05 +0100
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I wished i had more time to draw better, but i have so much work to do right
now. But i hope it can be someone a little help.
If some of you sees other examples of paniers or whatever, dress support for
18th century, please let me know, so that i can add all there is.

Many greetings

Bjarne


http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dress_supports_in_18th.htm


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov  1 07:44:57 2002
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Subject: Short lives?Re: [h-cost] How did they live?????
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 00:53:47 +0000
Status: RO

They lived very short lives.

But cheap isn't always 'bad' for the beauty routine.
Crisco has long been used in the NYC Dermalogical world of Specialists 
post cosmetic surgery and in the Burn Units for serious skin burns.It 
does do amazing things to the dermis as a moisturiser.The same for old 
fashioned Vaseline.Won't do what the current crop of 'pharmaceutical 
cosmetics' in anti aging/reverting damage but its a top of the list 
moisturiser when massaged in on top of wet skin.But the feel is yucky 
when compared to today's arsenal products.

Still,many of those period ideas were on the right track with their use 
of wine,sugar or buttermilk - the acids therein would exfoliate the 
surface skin very mildly.

Marcus.

> I have been purchasing up beauty school textbooks, to find out how to 
> make
> period hairstyles, hair care, products, grooming, makeup, and 
> wig-making.
> In a 1911 textbook, I came across recipes for personal care.  Some are 
> for
> sunburns, freckle fading, black heads, etc.  I was sitting in our
> pediatrician's office yesterday and showed her some of the recipes.
> Needless to say she was shocked too, like me, and wondered how these 
> women
> lived.  Some of the principle ingredients, mercury, lead, petroleum
> (kerosene), Vaseline, and lard.
>
> I knew lead paint or powder was used in the Elizabethan period but I was
> stunned that it was used this late in history for facial products.
>
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov  1 07:44:58 2002
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From: "Cynthia Abel" 
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References:  <3DC1A77B.E95F6236@dandy.net>
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Subject: [h-cost] Late Colonial-Early Federal U.S. Costume
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:46:29 -0600
Status: RO

For Devotees of 18th-early 19thc costume, you may want to spring(or ask
Santa) for "What Clothes Reveal: the Language of Clothing in Colonial and
Federal America" by Linda Baumgarten. This is the companion book to an
exhibition at Williamsburg Decorative Arts Museum.  I got my copy today from
Amazon.com and I've only had a brief lunchtime look(with two co-workers very
interested in it too!) but all the mostly color pictures are simply yummy
and it was well worth the $65 odd with 30% off via Amazon since a visit to
Colonial Williamsburg isn't in the personal budget.

I will be doing an in-depth cover to cover(if I can get past some of the
beautiful photos of actual clothing)tonight!!

Cindy Abel
ILL Coordinator
Health Sciences Library
Creighton University
1912 CALIFORNIA ST
OMAHA NE 68178-0210
VOICE: 402.280.5144
FAX: 402.280.5134
brujne@creighton.edu


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